1 of My Stories

MICHAEL review: Entertaining, Energetic, and Carefully Protective of its Icon

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Mon, 04 May 2026 03:33:00 +0000

Jaafar Jackson as MICHAEL

Antoine Fuqua certainly had his work cut out for him when he chose to make a biopic about the King of Pop, Michael Jackson. A compelling biopic is one of the hardest film genres to get right, and when it comes to Michael Jackson, viewers may want different things out of a film about his life. Some may want to experience what it was like to see a live performance (those people are in luck). Others may want to learn his creative process or what it was like to be in a studio with him. Still others may want a deep dive into the Jackson's personal life. For me, I just didn't want to be bored, and MICHAEL is entertaining.

After a cold open where we see only the feet and back of Michael before he goes on stage, the movie jumps back to 1966. In Gary, Indiana, Joseph Jackson (Colman Domingo) forces his sons to endure long rehearsals. Jermaine, Marlon, Tito, and Jackie are all talented, but youngest son Michael (Played by Juliano Valdi) is singled out for his star quality and vocal agility. The story progresses from 1966 to 1988, like a tour through the greatest hits of Michael's life. One could say it's Michael Jackson's Era's Tour. On-screen titles announce the year and location. Viewers receive a short pit stop into that moment in time – what Michael (Jaafar Jackson as an adult) was wearing and dealing with as a person and musical artist. Those looking for an in-depth exploration into Michael's life will be bitterly disappointed. Partway through the film, Michael tells his manager, John Branca (Miles Teller) that he wants to be mysterious. The MICHAEL movie protects that legacy and leaves much of the unpleasant junk on the cutting room floor.

Colman Domingo as JOSEPH JACKSON

There's an energy to this film that matches the feeling of a concert. In a sense, the film is one big concert with the finale being an actual concert. The story bounces from one scene to the next, like a highlight reel. Unpleasant events are glossed over quickly. We never spend time seeing Michael suffer. Joseph beats Michael with a belt, but after the first time, it's treated as a blip, accompanied by an upbeat tune. Likewise, we see Michael survive a traumatic event in 1984 when his hair was set on fire during a Pepsi commercial. Michael's trip to the ER is handled quickly, spending little time on what must have been a harrowing and painful recovery. This treatment incubates the viewer from feeling too much discomfort, placing the focus square on Michael's musical talents and performances, which are the highlight of the film.

Filmed in spacious IMAX, this might be the closest thing to seeing Michael perform live for those born after his time. While you can find recordings of his concerts on YouTube, the camera in most cases stays firmly on Michael. Here, Fuqua's experience as a music video director shines, he knows exactly how to capture kinetic shots that fit the mood demanded. The camera frequently cuts over the crowd, focusing on fans that are swooning, screaming, or passing out to be in Michael's presence. Smartly-cut edits to the beat of the song add to the energy on display. Seeing this on an enlarged, vibrant IMAX screen immerses you in the moment. Even I – someone who has never been a devotee of Michael Jackson – felt enraptured. The theatrical audience was dancing in their seats as if they were at a live show.

Judah Edwards as YOUNG TITO, Jaylen Hunter as YOUNG MARLON, Juliano Valdi as YOUNG MJ, Nathaniel McIntyre as YOUNG JACKIE, and Jayden Harville as YOUNG JERMAINE

Jaafar Jackson succeeds in creating a carbon copy of the Michael that starstruck fans imagine. He's warm, charismatic, empathetic, and seems to have no flaws except an inability to stand up to his father. His desire to meticulously master the dance moves, mannerisms, and presence of his uncle is without fault. After Jaafar, the main three performances that matter are Colman Domingo as his father Joseph, Nia Long as mother Katherine, and KeiLyn Durrel Jones as Bill Bray, Michael's devoted bodyguard. All three fill parental roles in Michael's and shed light into the shaky support system he receives. Joseph and Katherine serve as foils to one another. Joseph is a harsh, controlling father, while Katherine is a loving yet passive mother who does little to protect her son from his father's whims. At times her failure to intervene on Michael's behalf stretches credulity since she's portrayed as a strong woman who adores her son. Only Bill Bray serves as a constant source of stability. He's a mostly silent presence that puts Michael first, even though Joseph is paying his salary.

With two decades of a music career to cover in only two hours, the screenwriter chooses to highlight the most important moments in Michael's career and only stop to linger on events that emphasize how Michael broke barriers as a Black artist. Aided by his lawyer, Michael fights to become the first Black man to have his videos shown on MTV. Concerned about gang violence, Michael brings warring gangs together to help him film the "Beat It" video, brokering a tentative peace. And the "Thriller" video revolutionized music videos and pivoted from mere performance to a type of short-form storytelling. Each of these events cements Michael's reputation as a cultural icon. We also glean what stars and TV shows he watched that would inspire his choreography and future endeavors.

Viewers that hoped to see something more realistic and heartbreaking maybe disappointed. We do receive hints at some of the sadness in his life. The movie paints his relationship with his father as difficult and abusive, which may have created the part of him that wished to remain in eternal childhood. He's drawn to the stories of Peter Pan and Neverland, the boy who never grew up. He wants to take care of animals who seem innocent and who give affection freely. Perhaps most troubling of all, the movie portrays Michael as constantly dissatisfied with his appearance, chasing some elusive ideal of a symmetrical face. He may also have felt a survivalist's instinct to keep his voice childlike to ensure he could hit those high notes. These challenges are woven into the narrative without becoming the focus.

Nia Long as KATHERINE JACKSON

Complaints that this film doesn't cover the sexual abuse allegations seem unwarranted since the movie ends in 1988, and the allegations didn't occur until 1993. Perhaps they will be covered in part two. But perhaps a biopic that celebrate Michael's legacy isn't the right platform to deal with a case that might open old wounds and do more harm than good. Any attempt to portray these events even in the future second part might come across as trying to re-litigate something that has been resolved.

While MICHAEL doesn't reveal new information or help to solve the mystery of who Michael really was, the film has reinvigorate the public's love of one of the most talented and enterprising musicians of all time and reminded us of his legacy. Biopics don't always tells fans or critics what they want to know about someone – sometimes they simply help you understand how the subject of interest might have seen themselves.

Release info: In theaters April 24, 2026

Final score: 3 out of 5

Durham to Alabama Pilgrimage Reflections: A Podcast Series

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Wed, 22 Apr 2026 17:49:00 +0000

A foot soldier leads the pilgrims through an activity at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery

Have you ever wondered what it was like to live during the Civil Rights Era in the United States? We learn about these things in the classroom and perhaps through movies and history lectures. But what it was like to walk there, be there, and experience it for yourself?

The full class of Durham to Alabama, 2024

The Durham to Alabama Pilgrimage is a five-day intensive journey through the heart of Alabama. Pilgrims travel by bus to Birmingham, Marion, Selma, and Montgomery, following the path, both geographically and chronologically, of Civil Rights heroes of the faith. With the Holy Spirit as a companion, pilgrims walk, pray, and reflect, in expectation that God will allow them a glimpse into what occurred and what it means for us today. Aided by trained facilitators and eyewitness accounts of foot soldiers who marched in the face of hatred, the pilgrimage is a powerful, spiritually formative experience that leaves you forever changed.

Crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge

The Reflections podcast series captures the stories of pilgrims who went on the Durham to Alabama Pilgrimage. Hosted by Lindsey Dunn, a pilgrimage alumnus, these interviews are our testimonies of what we felt, learned, and saw because of this pilgrimage. If you would like to know more about the Durham to Alabama Pilgrimage, please visit the DurhamCares website. You can listen to each episode at the links below or using the podcast players at the bottom of the page.

Reflections by Lindsey: Who Can Understand It?

Reflections by Rev. Dr. Tammy Rodman: Let Me Out of Here

Reflections by Bev Iber: Precious Beads at the Bottom of the Ocean

Reflections by Dr. Lafayette Maxwell: The Gift of Black Bottom

Reflections by Rebecca Felton: Making Up for Lost Opportunities

Reflections by Dr. Deborah Boston: When Christ Enters the Equation

A foot soldier and the group bus driver (an important member of our group!)

PRETTY LETHAL: Ballet, Bloodshed, and the Power of the Corps [SXSW 2026]

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Tue, 07 Apr 2026 16:24:00 +0000

[L-R]: Avantika as GRACE, Maddie Ziegler as BONES, Iris Apatow as ZOE, Millicent Simmonds as CHLOE in PRETTY LETHAL

In 2025, BALLERINA, starring Ana de Armas, came out about an assassin trained at an elite dancing school. I reviewed the film positively but felt bummed that the filmmakers missed an opportunity to create fight scenes that fused dance and combat. Fairy Godmother Vicky Jewson has made my wishes come true in PRETTY LETHAL, an action thriller with combative choreography and an ensemble cast.

Bones (Maddie Ziegler) is part of an elite dance troupe lead by Thorna Davenport (Lydia Leonard), which includes wealthy Princess (Lana Condor), religious Grace (Avantika), and ASL-communicating sisters Zoe (Iris Apatow) and Chloe (Millicent Simmonds). Ms. Davenport is taking them to perform in the Budapest Showcase, which could be life changing for the girls, but petty squabbles and power struggles keep them from working together at peak shape. When their bus breaks down with no phone service, the group takes shelter and looks for help at the Teremok Inn.

At first they feel heartened and intrigued to meet the inn's owner, Devora Kasimer (Uma Thurman). A retired ballerina who had to quit due to an injury, Devora's inn is an homage to ballet and her heyday as a dancer. But it's also a hub for criminal activity. When one of the crew witnesses a horrific tongue branding, the group is selected for elimination. They will have to set aside their differences and work together to survive the night and escape unscathed.

Iris Apatow as ZOE, Avantika as GRACE in PRETTY LETHAL

PRETTY LETHAL delivers just what one would hope from an action thriller: wise-cracking dialogue, creative battles, and a satisfying conclusion. Credited casting director Jenny Jue (INGLORIOUS BASTERDS, SNOWPIERCER) has truly assembled the perfect corps de ballet. Of course, DANCE MOMS veteran Maddie Ziegler is uniquely trained to for this role. She understands the pressure put on dancers and the abuse the body endures and brings a wealth of experience to the cast. Lana Condor (TO ALL THE BOYS I'VE LOVED BEFORE) and Avantika (MEAN GIRLS 2024) both have backgrounds in dance and appropriately angst-driven acting credits. As a deaf actress, Millicent Simmonds offers a unique skill set that screenwriter Kate Freund integrates into the plot. Simmonds' character Chloe communicates with her sister Zoe (Apatow) through sign language, which they use to their advantage when trying to fool their foes. Viewers who aren't deaf can use the captions to snoop on their conversations and appreciate the clever ways Jewson and Freund let the sisters shine. Casting Uma Thurman in a rare role as an antagonist with a sympathetic backstory needs no defense. She can do anything, and her presence on screen is a delight in ways I won't spoil.

Production designer Zsusa Kismarty-Lechner (BORDERLANDS; RED SPARROW) clearly has a blast creating the den of iniquity known as Teremok Inn. Like a Toulouse-Lautrec painting blended with John Wick's Continental Hotel, green and red neon lighting adds a devilish glow to the shady activities taking place. Meanwhile Devora's need to live in the world of the Nutcracker only adds to the madness, with ballet paraphernalia covering almost every square inch of the walls. The combination of a French brothel combined with a the equivalent of a ballet Barbie collection creates an offbeat backdrop prefect for some madcap dance shenanigans to take place.

The full extent of criminal activity is never fully explored. We just know that Devora inherited this business from her father and that she's been biding her time to get revenge on the man who ruined her life. For the most part, besides Devora, the bad guys play the role of village idiots. They are just vessels that the girls can dispose of in creative ways. Once the first violent act takes place, it's only a matter of time before the dancers will face off against the mindless thugs. "These guys are drunk and out of shape," cries Bones, "and we're prima f–ing ballerinas!" We already know who's going to win, but that doesn't mean it's not a ton of fun to watch.

Uma Thurman as DEVORA KASIMER in PRETTY LETHAL

Action films go from good to great when they make smart use of their subject material and their performers in crafting believable setups for their characters. We see these girls use their flexibility to get their hands untied and a propensity to vomit to quickly dull the effects of drugs. The stunt team certainly outdid itself in crafting fight scenes that make creative use of ballet accoutrement: hairpins, X-acto knives, and tiaras. The fights are definitely the highlight of the film, plus the girls' interactions with one another.

PRETTY LETHAL is solidly pro-dancer and pro-female. Dancers can be very misunderstood. People who have never known stepped up to the barre see lovely poses and pretty dresses, but the life of a dancer is far from idyllic. Movies like BLACK SWAN have raised awareness of the physical toll ballet takes on the body, but that's just part of the story. The competition is fierce, and imposter syndrome looms large. Our lead character of Bones has a huge case of imposter syndrome. Early on, she tells her teacher that she doesn't fit in because "ballet is a rich bitch sport." She's there on scholarship and is dependent on Princess' mom to fund her fees. Jewson could have made this a final girl movie, but instead, she highlights the power of girls working together. There's only one prima ballerina, but it's the corps who can make or break the show.

Bones may not be rich, but it's her leadership and loyalty that keep the girls alive. While this girl power film is wickedly fun, it's also a good reminder that us girls need to stick together. This world wants to pit us against each other. We are conditioned to compare each other by looks, body size, talent, salary, home decor, and a whole host of other material attributes. We damage each other and ourselves when we see others as targets we need to look better than. Jewson reminds us that we can help each other to soar through mutual respect and an assisted lift.

[L-R]: Avantika as GRACE, Millicent Simmonds as CHLOE, Iris Apatow as ZOE in PRETTY LETHAL

Screening in its World Premiere during SXSW 2026 in the Headliner section. See film details page for more information. https://schedule.sxsw.com/2026/films/2241758. PRETTY LETHAL is now on Prime Video.

Final score: 3.5 out of 5

10 Films I’m Looking Forward to at Full Frame Film Festival 2026

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Sat, 04 Apr 2026 05:10:00 +0000

Full Frame Film Festival begins in only a few weeks. Folks from all over the world will descend upon Durham, NC, to appreciate all that documentary films offer, accompanied by a side of Southern hospitality. Known for its cozy atmosphere, audience Q & As, and abundant opportunities to interact with filmmakers, Full Frame is an unbeatable experience that's right in my hometown. You never know who you will end up in line behind or seated next to. The first year I attended, I was seated next to a group of four ladies who have been making the annual trek from New York for years. A few hours later, I was chatting with Amanda Moss, the director of the opening night film that year. At Full Frame, you meet curious minds who want to be confronted with real stories that range from inspirational to enraging to the absurd.

The film festival takes place from April 16-19, 2026, at venues all in walking distance from the Durham Convention Center. This year's program includes 49 films, with some being eligible for prizes. Fifteen films chosen by filmmaker Robert Greene (PROCESSION, A BISBEE '17 SHORT FILM) comprise this year's thematic program: "Extremely Rich Theater: Staging, Performance, Elasticity in American Nonfiction Film." The theme explores staged experiences and how they can help viewers the find the truth. Filmmaker Dawn Porter is also being honored in the Full Frame Tribute program.

You can purchase passes or individual tickets at the website.

Without further ado, here’s ten films I’m hoping to see at Full Frame.

AMERICAN DOCTOR, directed by Poh Si Teng

Description from Full Frame: As bombs fall and hospitals become targets, three U.S. physicians volunteer to provide medical aid in Gaza. Each doctor brings a different background, temperament, and relationship to the conflict, yet all three are bound by the same moral imperative—to save as many lives as they can.

Why I’m interested: I'm heartened by the concept of a film that shows people of different backgrounds - Palestinian, Jewish, and Zoroastrian - working together to save lives. The current cultural narrative wants us to believe that collaboration isn't possible across differences, but people like these doctors offer hope and a compelling alternative. Since Gaza bans foreign journalists from entering the city, the doctors are also uniquely positioned to offer eyewitness accounts that journalists cannot. I'm imagining this will be a grueling documentary to watch but worth the discomfort.

COOKIE QUEENS, directed by Alysa Nahmias

Description from Full Frame: In this engaging, lighthearted feature, Alysa Nahmias follows four young women, ages 5 to 12, on their quests to be a top-selling “Cookie Queen.” Families get in on the fierce competitive action as the girls track their numbers, devise novel marketing strategies, and push themselves to best their peers.

Never too full for a Thin Mint: The competition documentary is a tried-and-true subgenre as we follow selected individuals through the process of trying to be the best at something. It's a stroke of genius for someone to bake such a story about Girl Scout cookies. I've never been a Girl Scout, but I've definitely eaten my share of Thin Mints or Tagalongs. I'm curious what strategies these young minds come up with to meet their goals and look forward to learning what really goes on behind the scenes.

THE COOL WORLD, directed by Shirley Clarke

Description from Full Frame: THE COOL WORLD centers on Duke Curtis, a member of the Harlem youth gang the Royal Pythons, who believes that finally owning a gun will help him achieve success. Directed by Shirley Clarke and produced by Frederick Wiseman in 1963, the film is from a screenplay by Clarke and Carl Lee, based on the novel by Warren Miller.

Why I’m interested: Full Frame has selected a narrative feature that includes documentary techniques – untrained actors, unscripted scenes, naturalistic acting. I get the sense that THE COOL WORLD is an early cinematic example of urban fiction, where the city is a character, the story is secondary to the setting, and Black characters have their say, unencumbered by the white gaze. This film is part of Robert Greene's Extremely Rich Theater program.

A FOX UNDER A PINK MOON, directed by Merhdad Oskouei and Soraya Akhlaghi

Description from Full Frame: A FOX UNDER A PINK MOON follows 16-year-old Soraya, an Afghan woman living in Iran, and her repeated attempts to escape the country. The documentary is culled from hours of her own cell phone footage and video conversations with filmmaker Mehrdad Oskouei. Their collaboration sparks confessional moments where Soraya describes abuse at the hands of her husband, longing for her mother in Europe, and the dangers of relying on smugglers to cross borders.

Why I’m interested: This is another example where cellphone cameras offer a viable mode for the oppressed to tell their story. Soraya is hoping to escape to Europe, where her mother awaits. As she waits for the right opportunity, she channels her pain and frustration into creating fantastical artwork. The documentary includes animated sequences based on these visions. To see a young woman like Soraya who is refusing to give up and find creative modes of expression will be a joy.

JOYBUBBLES, directed by Rachael J. Morrison

Description from Full Frame: JOYBUBBLES resurrects the singular legacy of Joe Engressia, history’s most unlikely hacker. Born blind and negotiating a lonely, transient childhood, Joe discovered the telephone wasn’t just a household device—it was a lifeline to a world that otherwise felt unwelcoming and inaccessible. By mastering the art of whistling a precise frequency, he bypassed analog networks and subverted the corporate phone monopoly to score free calls, finding purpose, community, and notoriety in the process.

Super Phreak: Some people create their own fate. Joe Engressia, known as Joybubbles, was such a person. Dismissed by society for his differences, he used his unique perfect pitch to crack the analog code and make free phone calls. Once the smoke cleared from his arrest (yikes), he then used his talents to reach out and form connections with others – to be for others what was never offered to him. What a remarkable person. We should all be finding what the world lacks and trying to fill in those gaps.

THE LADY BIRD DIARIES, directed by Dawn Porter

Description from Full Frame: For THE LADY BIRD DIARIES, director Dawn Porter drew from 123 hours of surprisingly intimate audio recorded by Claudia Alta “Lady Bird” Johnson during her years as first lady. The diaries begin as her husband, Lyndon B. Johnson, becomes president in the harrowing hours following JFK’s assassination in November 1963 and end on the family’s final day in the White House in 1969. Told from her point of view, the film reveals Lady Bird to be a more formidable presence than previously credited.

Why I’m interested: For every President who has served in the White House, there's a First Lady that's working just as hard and usually with double the poise of her counterpart. For Lady Bird Johnson, I'm sure taking on this role couldn't have been easy. Not only did her husband take the office in the shadow of probably one of the most beloved presidents ever, but her every move was probably equally measured against the iconic Jackie Kennedy. It will be insightful to hear her first hand accounts, edited by Dawn Porter, Full Frame's tribute director for this year.

NOT A PRETTY PICTURE, directed by Martha Coolidge

Description from Full Frame: As a high school student, Martha Coolidge was raped by a classmate while they were on a date with friends in New York City. Years later, to understand what happened to her, Coolidge collaborates with actors to stage the events leading up to, during, and after the assault. Formally inventive, NOT A PRETTY PICTURE deftly shifts between scripted scenes, interviews, and spontaneous discussions to examine the roles of survivor, perpetrator, and bystander and to reckon with the lasting effects of trauma.

Why I'm interested: For the past six months or so, I've been working to curate a Top 25 women-directed films list, and Coolidge's REAL GENIUS is one of the nominees. Coolidge is best know for her 80s films, but her first film was this documentary where she reenacts her own sexual assault. She didn't view this as therapeutic for herself; rather, she wanted to spread awareness as to how things can progress from a fun date to unnecessary use of force. This film is part of Robert Greene's Extremely Rich Theater. Interestingly, Greene is best known for the film PROCESSION, where he helps victims of sexual abuse work through their trauma by recreating the scenes where they experienced abuse. These are films which aren't the same but run parallel. I want to honor that a female director did something so innovative in the documentary genre.

PUNISHMENT PARK, directed by Peter Watkins

Description from Full Frame: Set during the Nixon administration, PUNISHMENT PARK depicts a dystopian parallel reality in which detained political dissidents face an obscene decision. After being convicted of their “crimes” in a sham court proceeding, they are offered the choice between life in prison or three days in “Punishment Park,” a desert landscape where armed guards pursue them on foot as they race toward an American flag miles away on the dusty horizon.

Why I'm interested: All of Greene's Extremely Rich Theater selections blend fiction and documentary in some fashion. For this film, it's a fake documentary, like a mockumentary but not done for comedic satire. In a setup similar to THE HUNGER GAMES, convicted criminals are given the opportunity to survive for three days in a barren wasteland where people are actively trying to kill them. It looks like an easy exit, but the odds are stacked against them. In the trailer, seeing uniformed officers physically threaten unarmed people seem disturbingly normal in a present where ICE routinely shows up in domestic neighborhoods or restaurants to shove people into cars. I'm sure the discussion will be rich for this one.

SHIFTING BASELINES, directed by Julien Elie and Xi Feng

Description from Full Frame: The South Texas desert town of Starbase, formerly known as Boca Chica, is home to a futuristic colony not unlike Robert Oppenheimer’s Los Alamos atomic enclave. Unlike the Manhattan Project, however, Starbase is also home to transient launch-lovers, space-race pilgrims, and techno-tailgaters, all eager to catch a glimpse of (or a ride on) the next rocket to the stars.

Atomic energy: As a lover of all things midcentury, I absolutely need to indulge in seeing a film about a futuristic colony and people dream about that. However, based on the full description, this won't stick with nostalgia and Jetson references. The focus on the future will be interrupted with an examination of how hyper focus on future worlds could be negatively impacting our care for life here on Earth.

WHEN A WITNESS RECANTS, directed by Dawn Porter

Description from Full Frame: In 1983, a 14-year-old boy was shot in the hallway of Harlem Park Junior High in Baltimore. Three 16-yearolds were convicted of the murder, despite limited and problematic evidence, because of the coerced testimony of eyewitnesses, all of them minors. The moment was formative for Ta-Nehisi Coates, who grew up in Baltimore and never forgot how the conviction changed his community. His memories spark Dawn Porter’s powerful examination of the case and the way it impacted the lives of these men who, ultimately exonerated, spent 36 years in prison for a crime they did not commit.

Why I'm interested: This is the second Dawn Porter film I'm hoping to see, and it sounds achingly similar to the TV series WHEN THEY SEE US. I'm sure I will end up feeling a similar amount of rage, but these stories need to be told. The amount of injustices the Black community has had to suffer is too large for them to bear alone. We owe it to them to listen to their stories, no matter how difficult. On the Reconciliation Memorial in Montgomery, Alabama, it reads "Let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream." (Amos 5:24). Justice can't exist in a world where people are wrongfully convicted and locked away in prison 36 years for a crime they didn't commit. We take a tiny step towards reconciliation when we face instances of wrongdoing head on and stop denying or nation's culpability.

Alabama Pilgrimage Reflections by Dr. Deborah Boston: When Christ Enters the Equation

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Tue, 31 Mar 2026 15:20:00 +0000

Dr. Boston with another one of the pilgrims before they cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge

This episode is part of my Alabama Pilgrimage series, where I interview friends who traveled with me through the important sites of the Civil Rights Movement. Each episode, one pilgrim shares their memories and reflections from the trip, starting with myself. We hope you will enjoy listening to each of these stories.

Today's pilgrim is Dr. Deborah Boston. Dr. Boston is an educator with a doctorate in leadership studies and adult education. She's now semi-retired, but is an active member of many civic and community organizations, including the Mt. Level Community Partnership for Racial Justice.

A photo Dr. Boston took of her friends Bev and Bob, whom she talks about during the podcast

Dr. Boston is actually one of the founding members of the Mt. Level Community Partnership and the Alabama Pilgrimage. From its inception, she, along with Rev. Linda Van Hook have been imagining what it would look like to pursue a model for beloved community in her home city. She shares about growing up in Winston Salem and comparing the treatment she received in schools where she was loved and cared for vs. tolerated and neglected.

As a life long learner, she wanted to keep growing and learning and finds doing that in community very rewarding. The 2024 pilgrimage was her second time attending, and she shares what was different from this time. In addition to sharing her experiences of the pilgrimage, she also offers information about how Durham locals can get involved with the partnership. Here is a link to their website if you want to keep up with current and upcoming opportunities.

This is the last interview from the Alabama Pilgrimage Class of 2024, but it's far from the end of the story.

SUMMER OF '94: Young, Scrappy, and Hungry Soccer Stars [SXSW 2026]

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Mon, 30 Mar 2026 06:06:00 +0000

When the USA was selected to host the World Cup in 1994, the world was baffled. With little national popularity and no professional league to speak of, the US had its work cut out to fulfill FIFA’s requirement that they create a league by the summer of ’94.

SUMMER OF '94, directed by Dave LaMattia and Chad N. Walker tells the story of how this came to be through a combination of historic footage, newscasts, and interviews with the trialists and the players who would eventually make up the team. We hear from many voices, but notables include Cobi Jones, Alexi Lalas, Tony Meola, Eric Wynalda, and John Harkes.

The guys explain life and training under the enigmatic Coach Bora Milutinovic, who is portrayed as the Mr. Miyagi of soccer, with his weird training methods. The group remembers just running on the beach every day for hours and doing an exercise called One Ball, One Player. In this exercise, the players would all just be on the field simultaneously each with their own ball, dribbling and controlling their target. The guys were expecting to run scrimmages and instead are doing the equivalent of daily calisthenics and elementary drills.

The documentary captures the highs and lows of this time, the grueling nature of training, food allergies, their reactions to their star-spangled uniforms, getting cut from the team, making the team, and becoming celebrities. We get to know the players and their personalities. And, of course, there’s footage from the games, most notably their shocking defeat of Colombia. All of those days running at the beach paid off, as the group appears to have won based on endurance alone. Earlier in the documentary, there’s a prophetic statement made by one of the players as they interpret why they think Coach Bora had them run so much. Something along the lines of, “Maybe you will never be good players, but you will be able to run and run forever.”

Of course, the US didn't win, but this group changed history and persevered, even though they were mocked for wanting to compete. No one expected much of them. Most of the players went on to coach and nurture future players.

As a non-sports person, I chose to watch THE SUMMER OF '94 based on the time period alone. As a 1994 high school graduate, that year represents a time when all things felt possible. In summer of 1994, it felt like I could make things happen by sheer will power alone, and it seems like this team was put together by scrappy people building something together from scratch. I know better now that things never just happen. Powerful mechanisms worked behind the scenes that allowed the US to even have a chance to host this thing. But sometimes it’s nice to revisit things in your lifetime that you never noticed the first time around.

The World Cup is coming up in 2026 and will be hosted by the US for only the second time. Who knows what history will be made this year and by whom?

Screening in its World Premiere in the Documentary Spotlight section. See film details page for more information.

Final score: 3.5 out of 5

Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery Discussion Guide for Faith Groups

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Sat, 28 Mar 2026 21:39:00 +0000

Josh O'Connor as FATHER JUD, Glenn Close as MARTHA

I run a film discussion at my church that we call a "film collective." Attending a Presbyterian church is a new experience for me. There are many committees, and they all have very fancy names. I didn't think "film discussion group" would cut it, so we came up with film collective. This recognizes that we are watching these films as community. This is different than watching as just my self. We create meaning together as a body.

The discussion are much richer because they are created by us as a collective. Our group has been in existence for two years now. I have been meaning to post our discussion questions in case others want to do the same and see a template.

Daniel Craig as BENOIT BLANC

About Rian Johnson: Rian Johnson got his start directing the neo noir BRICK in 2005. Emulating the style of films like MALTESE FALCON or CHINATOWN but setting it in a modern high school, Johnson showed a knowledge of film history and his intention to interrupt that history in his own way from the beginning. It's a film I consider perfect and can be found in my small but excellent physical media collection. It's the story of Brendan, a loner who receives a note from his ex-girlfriend in his locker and sets out to try and help her.

He next directed LOOPER, a science fiction action thriller that messes with time travel tropes. He then famously got involved with the Star Wars universe and directed perhaps the most divisive of those films of all time, THE FORCE AWAKENS. Still to this day, the hate watching on this film is intense.

And then the KNIVES OUT FRANCHISE started, where Johnson uses a classic locked room mystery setup as a way to examine dynamics of power, hierarchies, and systemic abuse. The first Knives Out was set in a wealthy family. The second, GLASS ONION dealt with big tech and influencer culture. Which brings us to WAKE UP DEAD MAN, which turns a gaze up on religious abuse and shame culture. Johnson has revealed that he grew up in the church and wanted to revisit that world. If you feel the world seems authentic, that's why!

Josh O'Connor as FATHER JUD, Daniel Craig as BENOIT BLANC

About Wake Up Dead Man: a Knives Out Mystery: Detective Benoit Blanc teams up with an earnest young priest to investigate a perfectly impossible crime at a small-town church with a dark history. Film can be found on Netflix.

Discussion Questions:

1. Father Jud agrees with Blanc that the church is full of storytellers and storytelling. But he says what really matters is if these stories resonate with something deep inside of us that’s profoundly true or profoundly a lie. What do you think about that statement?

2. What did you think about the characters that make up Monsignor Wicks’ flock? Did any of them seem familiar, as in you relate to them or have met people like them?

3. What stories are these characters telling themselves?

4. What clues, if any, did you pick up after the fact as to who the real guilty party was?

5. Was there only one guilty party? What was each person guilty of?

6. Martha says she was “the good one." How did this become her identity?

When thinking about our place in a group, we often creates similar appeals: the smart one, the talented one, the good looking one. What is appealing about this? What is damaging about this?

[L-R] Daryl McCormack as CY, Glenn Close as MARTHA, Cailee Spaeny as SIMONE, Josh Brolin as JEFFERSON WICKS, Kerry Washington as VERA, Andrew Scott as LEE, Jeremy Renner as Nat

7. We see the scene in the church several times where Grace Wicks comes in to ransack the church. We see the exact same scene multiple times but the story is narrated by a different storyteller. We are given different information each time. How did your perceptions of her actions change based on the information you were given and the storyteller?

8. Father Jud and Benoit Blanc each have a Road to Damascus moment, where the scales fell from their eyes. What do they each realize? What does it change in them? Who were they before and after that moment took place?

Can you think of a moment like that in your life?

9. Father Jud is a fighter. That’s a gift he uses for good or evil. He feels anger, usually when he sees people under his care being harmed. That’s a good thing, but it’s bad if the anger controls you. Do you have a gift that works that way for you? Some people call it a shadow. Who you are at your best and your worst?

10. Monsignor Wicks is a troubling character, but he keeps a steadfast flock. This is broken down somewhat in the script and some left to deduction. What do people find appealing about a leader like Monsignor Wicks?

11. Father Jud says that Samson is the only one pure of heart at the Lady of Perpetual Fortitude. What does he mean by this?

12. What was your experience of watching the phone call with Louise?

An interesting analysis from a fellow critic.

Welcome to Your Next Rabbit Hole: WE ARE THE SHAGGS [SXSW 2026]

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Thu, 26 Mar 2026 03:36:00 +0000

[L-R] Dot and Betty Wiggin

Foretold from a prophecy, mocked by their contemporaries, admired by younger generations, The Shaggs are like nothing you have ever heard before. At one point, they were declared the worst band in rock history. Others have named them as unintentional geniuses or early adopters of punk music. Prolific comedy writer and director Ken Kwapis sets out to sift through the various opinions in his first ever documentary. What starts out as a simple conversation with the surviving group members becomes a thought piece about art and its boundaries. Who decides what's good and how? Where's the boundary between noise and music? After watching WE ARE THE SHAGGS, you may not have firm answers to these questions, but you will certainly find your next YouTube obsession and much to ponder.

For those uninitiated, The Shaggs started a band in the 1960s. Inspired by his mother's predictions that he would marry a redhead and spawn famous musicians, Austin Wiggin decided his three eldest daughters should drop out of school and start a band. For young people that share these same aspirations, such instructions from a father might sound like a dream scenario, but for the Wiggin sisters, the situation felt more like boot camp. Austin forced them to spend all of their time practicing music and doing calisthenics. They had no interest in starting a band but as dutiful daughters from a rural New Hampshire town, they obeyed. They played shows in their town community center, created a catalog, and released a record with 12 songs, PHILOSOPHY OF THE WORLD.

[L-R] Betty Wiggin, Helen Wiggin, Dot Wiggin

Here's the catch. By normal standards, the music is perplexing and chaotic. The girls played their guitars out of tune. The singers and the drums are keeping different time signatures, and the lead guitar often doubles the vocals. There's no attempt to create harmonies or counterparts; the two singers both sing the melody with pure tones and a slight lisp. Listening to the record for the first time is a confounding experience; you don't know whether to laugh or cry. But as you listen more, you start to hear other things. Those "out of tune" chords sound a lot like the way Angelo Badalamenti applied heavy reverb to a Duane Eddy style twang in TWIN PEAKS. The guitar doubling the vocals is reminiscent of "Blister in the Sun" by the Violent Femmes. The lyrics and cadence flow in almost a stream consciousness way, with a cross between childlike innocence and existential crisis. The more you listen, the more you discover things to appreciate. You realize they aren't bad so much as unrefined.

Kwapis begins the documentary by interviewing the surviving sisters, Dot and Betty. Eldest daughter Helen, who played the drums, passed away in 2006. Middle child Dot played the role of songwriter, lead guitarist, and vocalist. Betty, the youngest sister, doubled on the vocals and played rhythm guitar. Kwapis collects their memories of living by their father's strict rules and what inspired each of the songs. Even if Dot was a reluctant musician, she certainly had things she wanted to say and remembers writing the songs in her journal. Normal, everyday events inspired her songs, such as a neighborhood cat going missing or speeding on a back highway in a sports car. Far from being cries of teen rebellion, The Shaggs even wrote "Who are Parents," an appreciation of familial love and "We Have a Savior," a call for the world to stop fighting and rely on God. One might even suspect their father had filtered their song topics and lyrics, but nothing of the kind is said in the documentary.

These animated sequences by Drew Christie recreate moments from the girls' music career

Listening to the memories of Dot and Betty is a head-scratching experience. Much of the time they speak with little expression or affect. Their memories are blunt and matter-of-fact, as if they are reporting what happened to someone else. They don't seem to look back on the time with fondness or loathing. Luckily, we hear from other voices, because if this just centered the voices of the sisters, it would be hard to muster enough enthusiasm as a viewer to sustain a full-length film. It's an odd sensation, though, seeing other people more pumped about an artists' work than the artist themselves. Which begs the question, if they never marketed themselves or attempted to become famous, why are people still talking about their music 65 years later?

To answer that question Kwapis collects an impressive collection of figures. Local historian Matthew Thomas gives us a tour of the town hall where the girls played as teens. Eric Lyon, a music composer, has arranged several of The Shaggs songs for a violin duo named String Noise. Russ Hamm, Erik Lindgren, and Bob Olive were all present at Fleetwood Studios when the family came in to record their album. These professional musicians share their utter dismay at the unorthodox sounds coming out of The Wiggin sisters' instruments and a kind of begrudging admiration at the girls' rejection of any attempts made to tune their guitars. WBCN radio programmer Joe Rogers, who went by the name "Mississippi Harold Wilson" made PHILOSOPHY OF THE WORLD part of his regular rotation. A station that became a notable launching pad of underground radio, their choice to include The Shaggs music on their playlist gave credence and distribution to exactly the kind of listeners that would enjoy the unconventional sounds.

Perhaps most interesting of all, we hear from The Shaggs Tribute Band. Helmed by Jesse Krakow, the band consists of Laura Cromwell on drums, Krakow on lead guitar, Rich Bennett on rhythm guitar, and Brittany Anjou on vocals. Amazingly, they attempt to perform the songs faithfully, exactly as recorded. The existence of a cover band dedicated to The Shaggs music offers a measuring stick that few bands achieve. And it takes an admirable level of devotion to recreate chords that no man has ever played on purpose, tempos that change constantly, and vocal lines that meander in unexpected ways. Philosophically, the tribute band may also unintentionally undermine the very thing they admire about The Shaggs. The girls played a style all their own, so isn't attempt to copycat the original antithetical to that cause?

[L-R] Dot and Betty Wiggin during one of their interviews

Krakow and his band certainly aren't the only people who have covered The Shaggs music, but they are the best known, since all of that devotion eventually leads to them playing as backup band for The Shaggs at presumably their final reunion concert in 2017. The documentary includes segments from that show, again making for an odd experience. While the backup band looks thrilled, the sisters sing with the hands folded in front of them in the fig leaf position, eyes down. Watching the tribute band having to guide to sisters through their own music makes for an awkward experience.

Anyone who loves music and analyzing how fame begins and catches hold will find much to appreciate in WE ARE THE SHAGGS. The logline made it sound like the intellectual equivalent of a Ripley's Believe It or Not exhibit: "Step right up folks, don't be shy. Come behold this weird band that made records." But the story is far more thoughtful than I expected. Regardless of the intentions or desires of the father or the girls, they have made their mark on music history. And seeing Dot and Betty in their older years becomes a sort of meditation on aging and memory. In an age where fame is fleeting, it's fascinating that three sisters who never wanted to be musicians have a fanbase that wants to honor their unique sound. Music has rules, and many achieve fame by breaking rules. But The Shaggs never broke the rules; they never knew the rules and made their own. That's a level of artistry that few ever achieve.

Screening in its World Premiere during SXSW 2026 in the 24 Beats per Second section. See film details page for more information.

Final score: 3.5 out of 5

Just for Fun

My Pal Foot Foot rehearsal for the "Still Better than the Beatles" tribute album. We have a room full of 10 people attempting to recreate what three girls did by their lonesomes.

Andrew Thoreen interprets The Shaggs music and attempts to emulate their feeling and musicality while bringing the elements into greater cohesion. View a playlist of Andrew's covers

The only song performed by youngest sister, Betty.

BLACK ZOMBIE: Reclaiming the Undead from a Stolen History [SXSW 2026]

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Fri, 20 Mar 2026 05:56:00 +0000

BLACK ZOMBIE traces the origins of zombie mania in pop culture and horror iconography, revealing a hidden and troubling past. Today, cultural commentators often use the "walking dead" as a clever metaphor to wax poetic about the dangers of consumerism. But long before such talk existed, our ideas about zombies arose out of ignorant misrepresentation and misunderstanding of the lives and history of Black Haitians and voudou. Director Maya Annik Bedward uses multiple narrative threads to weave this documentary together – not just depicting the history but ultimately offering hope for a community wronged. Along with historians, we hear from religious leaders, filmmakers, and fans of the genre.

Our first thread follows the history of how the Haitian population came to be, shared by Kaiama L. Glover, a professor of African studies. French colonizers set up shop at Saint-Domingue, hungry for sugar, coffee, and indigo. They needed workers to harvest the land's resources and imported enslaved people from Africa. The population of enslaved workers greatly outnumbered the white land owners, making harsh treatment necessary. Torn from their land, the people of Africa brought their disparate cultures with them and found commonality with one another. They spoke French Creole with as common tongue. But they still clung to and valued their African roots and beliefs, including voudou.

Like any religion, voudou allows the worshippers to commune closer with divine spirits. Followers of voudou believe that if you tap into the spirits, they can possess you, but in an empowering way. They fill you with strength and supernatural abilities. Within the folklore that intersects with voudou, talk of zombies arose from the belief that a priest or oungan could wield powers for good or evil. That a wrong step could earn a consequence of having a oungan decide to use their powers against you.

These historic insights set the stage for how valid parts of culture then became exploited into zombies in cinema today. William Seabrook, a travel writer, was the one of the first in a long line of white Europeans armed with half-truths to write of the people of Haiti in a disparaging way. After observing enslaved workers and trying to engage them in conversation, his interpretation was that they had been turned into living dead and had the life sucked out. Rather than realizing that these are humans who have been stolen from their homes who may not be feeling much joy or enthusiasm for work, his ignorant assumptions lead to the novel, THE MAGIC ISLAND (adapted for the screen under the title WHITE ZOMBIE). After this first film, others followed suit, where white people visit "exotic" locales and face the threat of becoming a zombie if they crossed a line. These earliest examples had blatant negative depictions of Black characters as evil and ready to attack at the slightest wrong move.

We may feel tempted to breathe a sight of relief when we get to the George Romero era, where zombies can now be any race, and Black characters can even be the hero. But helpful commentary on top of movie clips help pull out the problematic threads in a way that is easy to understand. The documentary takes us through a delightful tour of cinematic pitstops, entering the fray at the height of 1960s counter-cultural movement and up until contemporary cornerstones such ask the 28 DAYS LATER series, THE WALKING DEAD, AND THE LAST OF US. Fans of horror always appreciate these tours through favorite films, but the journey may feel uncomfortable when paired with the commentary about inherent racism in the genre. For even in zombie films that lack creatures that look Black, the metaphor of otherness is there. Zombie stories tend to feature nice white families who have to protect their homes and their bodies from those ravenous for what they have.

The horror genre often offers a way for its fans to process trauma in a way that makes them feel seen and validated. What BLACK ZOMBIE demonstrates is that, for Black Haitians and their descendants, even this grace was denied. The symbol or creature Haitians know as a zombie got stolen and distorted, used as cheap entertainment and furthering erasing dignity from an already wronged culture. Bedward takes one step towards correcting this wrong by including her own black-and-white zombie film within the film. With no dialogue, it paints a story of a man stolen from Africa who longs for death. The Africans believed that if you died, you would be returned to mythical Africa. Instead, his white oppressor uses necromancy and forces him to live so that he can keep doing back-breaking work. The film ends with a call for this worker to wake up and remember who he is.

Taking a last detour to remind us that Haitians rose up against their French oppressors and won their independence, there's an encouragement for Black victims of the diaspora to rise up and claim their place in society. Perhaps the zombie has something to teach us about bondage and power. In zombie films, the nice families fear a zombie because of it's unstoppable hunger. There's an acknowledgment that sooner or later, the zombie will overpower you due to sheer numbers and never feeling tired. Similarly, Bedward and her crew want descendants of Haiti to remember their strength.

With its multi-layered and intricate storytelling approach, BLACK ZOMBIE will be appreciated by anyone who wants a deeper appreciation of the horror genre. In the wake of Ryan Coogler's SINNERS making a mark on awards history, this documentary also offers the next step for anyone wanting to continue the conversation about Black culture, spirituality, and storytelling. The best documentaries inform, ignite the audience, and suggest a clear call to action. BLACK ZOMBIE does all of this with style.

Screening in its World Premiere during SXSW 2026 in the Documentary Spotlight section. See film details page for more information.

Final score: 4.5 out of 5

A Story Out of Sync: Grief Without Grounding in DEAD DEER HIGH [SXSW 2026]

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Sat, 14 Mar 2026 06:35:00 +0000

Kyla Brown as STEPHANIE, Christian Cruz as KYLE in DEAD DEER HIGH

We've seen it as in documentary form, but with different angles. In 1998, Paul Devlin's SLAMNATION is credited as the first film that captures the energy of a slam poetry competition, focusing on the structure and mechanizations. In 2010, Jon Siskel directed LOUDER THAN A BOMB, a documentary that follow four teams as they prepare for a similar contest. Not long after, Daniel Lucchesi and Alex Ramseyer-Bache created WE ARE POETS (2012), featuring six British teenagers that come to slam on an American stage. And taking a more activist approach in 2018, Max Powers made DON'T BE NICE, which situates slam poetry as a tool of resistance. Each entry earned admiring reviews and may have inspired other writers to pick up the pen again or for the first time. Surprisingly, there have been few directors that attempt a narrative approach to the subject.

Looking to turn that tide is director Jo Rochelle and writer/producer Joshua Roark, middle school teachers and cinephiles that fell in love and decided to make movies together. In DEAD DEER HIGH, a slam poetry team tries to prepares for an upcoming competition while simultaneously grieving the loss of their star poet, Vok Taylor, tragically killed in a school shooting. Vok's girlfriend and team captain Stephanie (Kyla Brown) pours her grief into preparing for this competition as a tribute to Vok. But most of their rehearsal time feels more like a therapy session where she's forced to mediate between Kyle (Christian Cruz) and JT (Holden Goyette), who take their frustrations out on each other. Kyle lacks empathy for JT, the only one of their group who witnessed Vok's death firsthand. For JT, he's carrying guilt, shame, and self-loathing that causes him to lash against anyone who tries to care. Kyle interprets TJ's actions as apathetic.

The teens desperately need mentorship and support, but that's hard to find. Their normally inspirational teacher sponsor, Mr. K (Jack Kozlow), can barely function in his job, unable to enter his classroom where the shooting happened. He teaches through a window, trying to act normal while fighting off panic attacks. Grief counselor Rachel (Ayana Berkshire) isn't sure it's healthy for the speech team to devote so much time reciting poetry about their friend's death. And the principal Mr. Diaz (Joseph Peréz Bertót) comes across as goofy and obtuse.

[L-R] Holden Goyette as JT, Jack Kozlow as MR. K in DEAD DEER HIGH

With high stakes, teen angst, and a contest to train for, the stage seems set for a winning combination, but the results lack authenticity. DEAD DEER HIGH tries to be both a celebration of youth poetry and a meditation on school‑shooting trauma, but by giving neither element the depth it deserves, the film ends up diluting both. Rochelle cites a desire to build her film upon the rich heritage of the now classic DEAD POET'S SOCIETY, where a teacher attempts to shake up the rigid boarding school Welton Academy by daring to inspire his students to love poetry. But the two films have major differences. For one, the teacher never became a focus of the story. Mr. Keating always remains enigmatic – a cool cat, but we never learn anything about his private life. The focus is on the students and the coming-of-age trope of learning to find your voice. In DEAD DEER HIGH, the students become the enigmatic ones. And by setting the film in the aftermath of a school shooting, you divide the viewer's attention on where their attention should rest.

There were elements that worked nicely. The poetry that the students recite feels authentic, complex, and electric. Their team poem, "I Point this Poem at You," goes through the six screams of grief, with each team member attempting to verbalize their complex feelings of loss, anger, and gratitude for the time they had with Vok. Each stanza begins with "I point this poem at you/ I pull the trigger," both acknowledging the power that words have and reminding listeners that their friend was killed by a gun. For me, the highlight poem is when JT shows up late to the the qualifiers but manages to help his teammates earn a spot by reciting Vok's poem, "I look down at my two hands/ and count all the teeth of the men I've eaten," pronouncing himself as a kaiju that refuses to be labeled by the people who discount him as a "backup plan young man."

JT also has the most fleshed out character development of the teens. After witnessing an act of seemingly random violence, he now disdains his mother's prayers and wonders if a Higher power is just watching from a distance, withholding any aid. His poetry skills are the strongest, but his anger keeps him sabotaging his place on the team. All we know about Kyle is that he likes sneakers, and Stephanie gets relegated to mediator and girlfriend. Jack Kozlow as Mr. K gives the strongest performance of the movie and manifests an authentic grief in his body. His strength as an actor is fortunate as he had to perform alongside the weakest parts of the film, when we meet his family members. We meet gun-loving brother Bill (Aaron Cammack) who brags that no shooting would take place if he was there, mom Cassie (Kristina Haddad) who believes eating and not being sad are the key, and wife, Sara (Audrey Kennedy Kozlow), with the emotional affect of a grownup mean girl. These characters come across as caricatures more than people, but, to be fair, these segments are written poorly. What may have been intended for humor works against any emotional capital Rochelle and Roark earned.

Kyla Brown as STEPHANIE, Christian Cruz as KYLE in DEAD DEER HIGH

There's also an odd directorial choice where a gun that brother Bill gives Mr. K becomes a character in the film. Represented by a round camera lens that characters look at on occasion, the gun is an object we never see. But we are made aware of its presence and where it's looking. It turns that Mr. K has a complicated back story with guns, one that is never fully explored or resolved. Once again, this divides the viewer focus, creating a cognitive load with no payoff.

This gets at the heart of what may be the real issue behind why this film doesn't work. The best films about lived trauma arise due to lived experience, and the story told is the vehicle for exploring that trauma. But as far as I can tell, nothing in the press notes indicate that anyone on cast or crew has lived experiences in surviving a school shooting. Instead, the story arose out of a desire to celebrate poetry and its place in young adult self-awakening. So why bring a school shooting into it? What purpose does this serve? To be sure, school shooting are a tragic epidemic, and survivors and spectators need such stories to help us make sense of the madness. But this should never be handled as a tool to drive up the drama. At the very least, survivors of such events should have been brought as sensitivity editors or to assure authentic representation. Without lived experiences, you will only be able to imagine and play act the mental state of survivors. The authenticity isn't there to give conviction to the words.

Perhaps this competition needs no additional drama to make it meaningful. The documentaries worked because they captured the raw lives of teens. Every day, young people battle against the expectations of themselves, their families, their friends, and their schools. As TJ quotes, "I've got two hearts. One for the world that hates me and one for the world that loves me. And though I don't know which one keeps me alive, I'll roar until one of them bursts." The drama is already there in the true lives of teens.

Screening in its World Premiere during SXSW 2026 in the Narrative Spotlight section. See film details page for more information.

Final score: 2 out of 5

Beautiful and Tragic: Following the Ooligan Home in CEREMONY: Title [SXSW 2026]

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Thu, 12 Mar 2026 16:00:00 +0000

A still from CEREMONY, directed by Banchi Hanuse

Director Banchi Hanuse invites us into the ebb and flow of the Nuxalk people with the help of a radio station and a small, fatty fish. Together they operate as a gateway that bridges cultures and differences, bringing us into a people, a story, and hope that is deeply human.

Like so many stories told from the Indigenous lens, CEREMONY paints a picture of loss, theft, and maddening erasure. "Beautiful and tragic," radio host Qwaxw ruminates, as he visits a graveyard of Nuxalk people marked for sale as "Crown land." And indeed, these words could almost be the tagline to sum up the film. For while tragedy pervades this documentary and the stories you will hear, it's also surely set in one of the most beautiful place in the world: Bella Coola, British Columbia.

The fatty fish: CEREMONY tells a mystery, inviting us in as amateur detectives to help solve the case. Once upon a time, there were plentiful ooligan in the Bella Coola River. Sometimes called sputc, sometimes called eulachon or candlefish, these are small fish highly valued for their fatty oil content. Whether used as bait, pan fried and eaten, or converted into cooking oil, their appearance in the spring was always anticipated. Seen as a sign of the earth transitioning from winter to spring, the arrival was treated as a celebration for the community, with the same air of excitement we white folks would feel about attending the state fair. Twenty-five years ago, the ooligan disappeared, slowing to a trickle where once there was abundance.

Now, the people wait, wondering if the absence is permanent.

A still from CEREMONY, directed by Banchi Hanuse

The radio station: Keeping the mystery alive, Nuxalk radio host Qwaxw broadcasts over the airwaves, interviewing guests that share their memories, knowledge, and theories about the ooligan's whereabouts. Where many documentaries include voiceover narration or interviews, the radio station segments allow us to hear from many of the players in the story through unfiltered words they are speaking to their own community: honest, relaxed, and expressive.

The radio station is a beacon, keeping the community connected and maintaining the hope that the ooligan will return again.

Filmed across a time period of 10 years, CEREMONY feels like a fairy tale told with hints of magic and nostalgia. On screen, the corners appear rounded like analog movies of the past, creating an intimate insider view of a people longing for the past. The radio station itself is a link of nostalgia between communities, bringing to mind the pre-digital age of communication. Occasional animated sequences introduce us to the spirit realm and truths going on beyond the visible world. Again, all of this invites us into the journey on a more personal level, breaking the barriers often present in documentary films.

While the disappearance of the ooligan serves as our initial gateway into this world, this mystery serves as an allegory to a larger story about the Nuxalk people – like the fish, they are a threatened species. Where lands of bounty and plenty exist, colonization and industrialism have tramped down, insisting on ownership instead of co-existence. We learn the people's history and the ugly ways others have tried to erase them from the earth. Yet they remain.

A still from CEREMONY, directed by Banchi Hanuse

We meet Nuxalk people using the principles of science, religion, research, and political leverage to move the dial of progress. But the link that connects them all is storytelling. They share their memories of why the sputc matters to them and the truth of why their population has trickled from 8,000 people to only 250. Mother shares to son, a brother and sister keep their father's legacy alive, and an elder teaches a group of children how to harvest responsibly.

As I watched the film, it dawn on me that I was seeing an Indigenous version of nostalgia. Americans get critiqued a lot for their ability to wax poetic for the good old days, seeing the past through rose-colored lenses and ignoring parts that weren't ideal. But nostalgia has benefits, too. It keeps you connected to home and engenders a sense of belonging. If anyone deserves that, it's the Nuxalk people.

CEREMONY is screening in its World Premiere during SXSW 2026 in the Documentary Spotlight section. See the film details page for more information. https://schedule.sxsw.com/films/2241765

Final score: 3.5 out of 5

Find reviews I've written about other films by Indigenous filmmakers.

Alabama Pilgrimage Reflections by Rebecca Felton: Making Up for Lost Opportunities

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Thu, 05 Mar 2026 16:39:00 +0000

Photo taken at Lincoln School in Marion, AL

Today's pilgrim is Rebecca Felton. Rebecca was born and raised in Durham, NC. She is a literacy advocate, with a specialty in learning disabilities connected to reading. Her experience spans teaching, tutoring, teacher training, and researcher. She also offers counseling and legal advocacy by working with groups such as NC Legal Aid and the Duke Children's Law Clinic.

Photo of Lincoln Normal High School in Marion, AL

Rebecca shares how she became passionate about education and about her childhood in Durham. She grew up middle class and becomes aware of race through experiences she had as a child. After leaving Durham, she became involved in civil rights marches and protests in the late 60s but regrets missing out on the earlier, more dangerous events that we learned about on the pilgrimage. I thought it was beautiful that she interrogated herself during the interview and wanted to make up for lost opportunities.

Rebecca shares about the historical Lincoln School and the power of being able to walk alongside people of different races on the pilgrimage.

If you would like to learn more about the Alabama Pilgrimage, visit the DurhamCares website.

The music in this series is entitled Brothers and Sisters by Alana Jordan on Pixabay.

Ten Films I’m Looking Forward to at SXSW 2026

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Tue, 03 Mar 2026 06:06:00 +0000

SXSW 2026 is just around the corner. Hosted in Austin, Texas, SXSW started as a music festival and now includes film and TV, emerging technologies, and comedy. While Sundance is the cozy, intimate home of indie films, SXSW is known for its sprawl and focus on innovation. Sundance is the Outer Banks and SXSW is Myrtle Beach (IYKYK). Like my beloved Canadian Fantasia Fest, SXSW audiences know they can expect weird and wonderful genre benders, irreverent comedies, and experimental films, from the sublime to the absurd.

The film festival takes place from March 12-18, 2026, and features films from many categories, including narrative features, documentaries, festival favorites, premiers, midnight films, shorts, and TV series. You can purchase badges or individual tickets on the festival website.

Without further ado, here’s the top ten films I’m hoping to see at SXSW. As virtual press, it’s not always guaranteed I’ll be granted access. Also, I try to avoid picking movies I will be able to see at my local theaters. Do you have plans to attend? What will you be seeing? Let’s compare notes. All movies are English language, unless indicated otherwise. See you at the movies!

BABY/GIRLS, directed by Alyse Walsh & Jackie Jesko (documentary)

Description from SXSW: Set in post-Dobbs Arkansas, BABY/GIRLS follows three teens living in a Christian maternity home as they navigate pregnancy and early motherhood. The film offers an intimate, unfiltered look at girlhood and motherhood colliding in the American South.

Why I’m into it: My life forever changed the day my unmarried older sister told my parents she was pregnant and dropping out of college. However distressing the news, my sister was loved and supported throughout pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood. Not every girl in her situation can say the same. This documentary features the voices of girls who take shelter in a Christian maternity home in Arkansas. I’m interested to see how the conversation has evolved about teenage pregnancy for those who live it first-hand, especially from impoverished areas of the country. So often, the loudest voices we hear discussing teen pregnancy are fueled by political ambition rather than lived experience or connection to the people impacted. In these girls, I will look for the ghost of my sister and others who have gone before her.

BEAST RACE, directed by Ernesto Solis, Rodrigo Pesavento, Fernando Meirelles (action) [Portuguese language]

Description from SXSW: In the ruins of a dystopian Rio de Janeiro—a city fractured by class conflict and addicted to blood sport—a resistance leader is forced to enter a violent, high-stakes race to save his sister from a fate worse than death.

Why I chose it: Dystopian storylines combine the two elements – violent action and sociopolitical truth. You get to learn about social inequities through made up characters. In this case, BEAST RACE shines a light on the Brazilian animal lottery, an illegal activity that preys upon people with limited income. I’m hoping for unexpected heroes and moments of goodness to break through a world that wants to treat people like collateral.

BEYOND THE DUPLEX PLANET, directed by Beth Harrington (documentary)

Description from SXSW: In 1979, artist David Greenberger's talks with senior citizens become a word-of-mouth hit 'zine, The Duplex Planet. Four decades on, now a senior himself, he has much to tell us about the nature of art, conversation and growing old.

Why I’m interested: My newish role as caretaker for my parents has me more interested in the process of aging and how others help seniors find continued pathways to dignity and purpose. An activities director at a nursing home, David Greenberger began a zine in the late 1970s, interviewing residents and publishing their work. As people age towards their last hurrah, often they feel stripped of their humanity and personality. They are shuffled into homes, asked to take up less space, and become side characters in their own story. The focus becomes maintaining physical safety, while intellectual or artistic pursuits lie dormant. Greenberger’s work serves as an inspiration to others wanting to help seniors know that they are still important and valued at any age.

BLACK ZOMBIE, directed by Maya Annik Bedward (documentary, history)

Description from SXSW: From the flickering screens of Hollywood horror to the haunted cane fields of colonial Haiti, BLACK ZOMBIE unearths the buried origins of the zombie, reclaiming it as a symbol of survival and spiritual resistance.

Why I’m interested: While horror has a reputation for being all about jump scares and bloody knives, we who enjoy the genre know that it’s really a way to explore real-world fears and trauma from a safe distance. BLACK ZOMBIE promises to unpack the origins of the zombie subgenre in a new way. I’ve always heard zombie stories serve as a metaphorical window into the stupor of American consumer culture, so I’m curious what connections will be unearthed. This also promises to cover a survey of zombie films that bring these points to light, and as someone who has only connected with their love for horror in the last decade, I’m always grateful to learn about hidden gems.

Written review of film

CEREMONY, directed by Banchi Hanuse (documentary)

Description from SXSW: At ramshackled Nuxalk Radio in Bella Coola, an inquiry into the vanished ooligan run unravels a buried history of erasure and ignites the quiet revolution of a Nation that refuses to disappear.

Why I’m interested: Indigenous storytelling is one of my interests. This time, the story involves a vital fish species that goes missing from the waters, a local radio station, and a tale of survival. I’m intrigued and ready for the mystery. Indigenous storytelling inevitably leaves me feeling indignant for these groups who endure neglect, mischaracterization, and continual assaults on their culture.

Written review of film

CHILI FINGER, directed by Edd Benda, Stephen Helstad (comedy, crime)

Description from SXSW: When a small town lawyer discovers a severed finger in her chili, she blackmails the restaurant for a cash payout in an effort to regain control over her mundane life. The situation quickly spirals out of control, and her life descends into chaos.

Always fresh, never frozen: Where do I begin with this one? Set in the Midwest, CHILI FINGER to life a bizarre incident that took place 18 years ago when a woman claimed she found a finger in her chili at Wendy’s. Filmed in Illinois, this looks like a love letter to the Midwestern upbringing of my youth. Plus, the cast includes Sean Astin, Judy Greer, John Goodman, and Bryan Cranston. If that all wasn’t enough, the music score is composed by Dan Deacon, a favorite here at 1 of my Stories. All told, this may be my most anticipated film, as I love a good scandal. Bonus tip: the YouTube rabbit hole is deep with this one, as you can find the original newscasts from when the inciting incident took place as well are more recent videos of local residents sharing their enthusiasm that a movie is being filmed in their hometown.

PRETTY LETHAL, directed by Vicky Jewson (action/thriller)

Description from SXSW: An action-packed thriller where five ballerinas, stranded in a remote forest, take shelter at an unsettling roadside inn. They must weaponize years of brutal training, turning grace, discipline, and even pointe shoes into tools for survival.

Strike a pique pose: Last year, the John Wick spin-off BALLERINA came out, starring Ana de Armas. I hoped to see fight scenes that combined dance moves with deathly kicks and punches. Alas, ‘twas not to be. Based on the trailer, PRETTY LETHAL seems to be what I expected from the earlier film. I’m not sure about Uma Thurman’s Russian accent, but I’m hoping for well-choreographed fight scenes and witty banter between these women warriors.

My written review of PRETTY LETHAL

SENDER, directed by Russell Goldman (thriller)

Description from SXSW: After receiving a series of unwanted packages containing unnervingly targeted items, a woman tumbles down a paranoid rabbit hole to find her mysterious sender.

Return to sender: With a cast like Britt Lower, Rhea Seehorn, Jamie Lee Curtis, and David Dastmalchian, odds are this package will earn an exemplary rating. But I always appreciate a creative twist on a real-world situation. We are a package-driven society, but usually the headaches that come with that territory are porch pirates, shipping delays, and broken or missing items. But what if you received meaningful items that you never ordered? Is this a Secret Santa or a new form of stalking? For Julia, it’s a mystery she must solve.

SUMMER OF ‘94, directed by Dave LaMattina, Chad Walker (animated musical) [Persian]

Description from SXSW: When the World Cup landed in the U.S. in 1994, it arrived in a country with no league, no culture, and no clue. A ragtag group of players faced an impossible task: don't embarrass their nation in front of the entire world.

It was the summer of ‘94: I graduated from high school in 1994, so there’s something magical about stories set in the 90s. I wasn’t fully awake at the time to the larger world around me. Even today, current events is not my strong suit, but the “ragtag group of players” phrasing has me picturing a BAD NEWS BEARS situation, minus Walter Matthau. I’m not one to watch competitive sports and know next to nothing about the World Cup, but I do appreciate an underdog sports film, especially one that allows me to visit the post- high school time frame, when the world seemed wide open for the taking.

My written review of the film

WE ARE THE SHAGGS, directed by Ken Kwapis (documentary, music)

Description from SXSW: WE ARE THE SHAGGS is a music documentary about The Shaggs, an all-girl band that created some of the most provocative and polarizing music in rock-and-roll history.

Foot Foot don’t live here no more: It sounds like a twisted version of the Beach Boys’ beginnings. In the 1960s, three sisters are forced to start a band by their ambitious father. Then I heard the music, off tempo, off key, and sounding as if the three members of the band were each playing a different song. I look further and discover the girls have gained a cult following and have inspired bands to cover their tunes, especially “My Pal Foot Foot.” It’s fascinating, atonal, and something I can’t stop thinking about now.

Written review of the film

Alabama Pilgrimage Reflections by Dr. Lafayette Maxwell: The Gift of Black Bottom, Beloved Community

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Wed, 11 Feb 2026 17:24:00 +0000

This is the photo that Dr. Lafayette Maxwell describes taking at the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church

Today's pilgrim is Dr. Lafayette Maxwell. Dr. Maxwell is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and has a doctorate from the Virginia Samuel Dewitt Proctor School of Theology. He's currently a professor at Shaw University, a pastor at Mt. Zion Baptist Church, and frequent guest presenter of the Black Empowerment National Broadcast.

Duke Ellington stops by Jacksonville in 1955 while on tour

Dr. Maxwell shares his memories of growing up in the Black Bottom neighborhood in Jacksonville, Florida. It was a place where he felt the love of his community all around him. Today he wants to instill that same sense of pride and community in the spaces he lives and serves. His memories are vivid, appealing, and joyful. From being a pastor to work as a radio broadcaster and DJ, Dr. Maxwell operates with a sense of purpose. I think I could have listened to his stories all day. He has gone on two pilgrimages.

If you would like to learn more about the Alabama Pilgrimage, visit the DurhamCares website. You can connect with Dr. Maxwell through is email address: Lmaxwell@nc.rr.com.

You can hear more about Jacksonville, FL segregation history and Ax Handle Saturday here.

The Strand Theater in Jacksonville, FL -- one of three theaters that served Black movie lovers

The music in this series is entitled Brothers and Sisters by Alana Jordan on Pixabay.

Arts & Faith Announces 105 Nominees for Top 25 Spiritually Significant Women-Directed Films List

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Mon, 02 Feb 2026 03:16:00 +0000

Still images (clockwise from top left): BARBIE, THE ASCENT, CORPO CELESTE, BEAU TRAVAIL, EVA'S BAYOU, I'M YOUR MAN

The Arts & Faith Community has announced 105 nominees for its Top 25 Spiritually Significant Women‑Directed Films list, recognizing films across decades, genres, and cultures. The nominations include documentaries, shorts, and narrative feature films that explore spirituality in meaningful ways. The group seeks to elevate films that invite deeper reflection and engage questions of belief, suffering, redemption, justice, and the human search for purpose – universal experiences that span religious traditions around the world.

The nominations will be narrowed down to 25 films through a voting procedure, with the final winners announced on May 18, 2026, on the group website.

Margot Robbie in BARBIE

The nominations, collected by 25 volunteer jury members, are a testament to the community's depth of knowledge and appreciation for film. The slate spans silent films such as Lois Weber's The Rosary, blockbusters like Greta Gerwig's Barbie, canonical art-house works such as Claire Denis' Beau Travail, and contemporary indie films like Eva Victor's Sorry, Baby. Why women-directed films? A 2024 study known as the Celluloid Ceiling Report found that only 16% of the top 250 grossing films were directed by women. Yet in 2023, Fandango reported that 60% of people buying movie tickets were women. These films deserve to be found, appreciated, and celebrated by movie lovers and faith communities seeking truthful, humane stories that reflect the world God made and loves. The absence of women directed-films in public discourse means that vital voices are being missed.

Arts & Faith is an online community that consists of film lovers, critics, educators, and historians who care deeply about the intersection of cinematic stories and spirituality. Originally an internet discussion board for people who wanted to have thoughtful conversations about film, Arts & Faith began curating lists of spiritually significant films in 2004. It is currently led by Dr. Kenneth Morefield, who established the group's current online home in 2019, artsandfaith.com. Lists are designed to serve as a resource for faith communities, educators, and viewers seeking films that encourage spiritual contemplation and formation. Find the complete list below or visit the group Letterboxd page for a visual representation.

Please note: Arts & Faith is open to anyone. If this sounds like you, please visit the website for information on how to get involved.

Maya Deren in MESHES OF THE AFTERNOON

List of nominated films, in chronological order

The Life of Christ, dir. Alice Guy-Blaché (1906)

Falling Leaves, dir. Alice Guy-Blaché (1912)

The Rosary, dir. Lois Weber (1913)

Hypocrites, dir. Lois Weber (1915)

Shoes, dir. Lois Weber (1916)

The Holy Night, dir. Elvira Notari (1921)

Craig’s Wife, dir. Dorothy Arzner (1936)

Meshes of the Afternoon, dir. Maya Deren (1943)

At Land, dir. Maya Deren (1944)

Outrage, dir. Ida Lupino (1950)

The Hitch-Hiker, dir. Ida Lupino (1953)

Forever a Woman, dir. Kinuyo Tanaka (1955)

A still from ARAYA

The Star of Bethlehem, dir. Lotte Reiniger and Vivian Milroy (1956)

Araya, dir. Margot Benacerraf (1959)

Cléo from 5 to 7, dir. Agnès Varda (1962)

The House is Black, dir. Forugh Farrokhzad (1962)

The Trouble with Angels, dir. Ida Lupino (1966)

Wanda, dir. Barbara Loden (1970)

A New Leaf, dir. Elaine May (1971)

Adoption, dir. Márta Mészáros (1975)

Moses und Aron, dir. Danièle Huillet and Jean-Marie Straub (1975)

Harlan County, USA, dir. Barbara Kopple (1976)

The Ascent, dir. Larisa Shepitko (1977)

Girlfriends, dir. Claudia Weill (1978)

A still from GOLDEN EIGHTIES

My Brilliant Career, dir. Gillian Armstrong (1979)

Fast Times at Ridgemont High, dir. Amy Heckerling (1982)

Born in Flames, dir. Lizzie Borden (1983)

Testament, dir. Lynn Littman (1983)

Yentl, dir. Barbara Streisand (1983)

Vagabond, dir. Agnès Varda (1985)

Golden Eighties, dir. Chantal Akerman (1986)

Real Genius, dir. Martha Coolidge (1986)

Who Killed Vincent Chin, dir. Christine Choy and Renee Tajima-Peña (1987)

Big, dir. Penny Marshall (1988)

Crossing Delancey, dir. Joan Macklin Silver (1988)

Salaam Bombay!, dir. Mira Nair (1988)

Barbara O. Jones in DAUGHTERS OF THE DUST

The Company of Strangers, dir. Cynthia Scott (1990)

Daughters of the Dust, dir. Julie Dash (1991)

A League of Their Own, dir. Penny Marshall (1992)

The Piano, dir. Jane Campion (1993)

Little Women, dir. Gillian Armstrong (1994)

Home for the Holidays, dir. Jodie Foster (1995)

Eve’s Bayou, dir. Kasi Lemmons (1997)

The Prince of Egypt, dir. Brenda Chapman and Simon Wells (1998)

Beau Travail, dir. Claire Denis (1999)

But I’m a Cheerleader, dir. Jamie Babbitt (1999)

The Matrix, dir. Lana and Lily Wachowski (1999)

The Virgin Suicides, dir. Sofia Coppola (1999)

A still from PERSEPOLIS

American Psycho, dir. Mary Harron (2000)

The Gleaners and I, dir. Agnès Varda (2000)

Away from Her, dir. Sarah Polley (2006)

Marie Antoinette, dir. Sofia Coppola (2006)

Persepolis, dir. Marjane Satrapi and Vincent Paronnaud (2007)

Wendy and Lucy, dir. Kelly Reichardt (2008)

An Education, dir. Lone Scherfig (2009)

Bright Star, dir. Jane Campion (2009)

Lourdes, dir. Jessica Hausner (2009)

The Hurt Locker, dir. Kathryn Bigelow (2009)

Corpo Celeste, dir. Alice Rohrwacher (2011)

The Queen of Versailles, dir. Lauren Greenfield (2012)

Logan Marshall-Green in THE INVITATION

A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night, dir. Ana Lily Amirpour (2014)

Selma, dir. Ava DuVernay (2014)

The Babadook, dir. Jennifer Kent (2014)

Unbroken, dir. Angelina Jolie (2014)

Mustang, dir. Deniz Gamze Erguven (2015)

The Invitation, dir. Karyn Kusama (2015)

The Royal Road, dir. Jenni Olson (2015)

The Innocents, dir. Anne Fontaine (2016)

Lady Bird, dir. Greta Gerwig (2017)

Let the Sunshine In, dir. Claire Denis (2017)

The Burden, dir. Niki Lindroth Von Bahr (2017)

The Rider, dir. Chloe Zhao (2017)

Morfydd Clark in SAINT MAUD

Leave No Trace, dir. Debra Granik (2018)

Wild Nights with Emily, dir. Madeleine Olnek (2018)

A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, dir. Marielle Heller (2019)

Atlantics, dir. Mati Diop (2019)

Blinded by the Light, dir. Gurinder Chadha (2019)

First Cow, dir. Kelly Reichardt (2019)

Portrait of a Lady on Fire, dir. Celine Sciamma (2019)

Saint Maud, dir. Rose Glass (2019)

The Wind Phone, dir. Kristen Gerweck (2019)

Athlete A, dir. Bonni Cohen and Jon Shenk (2020)

Nomadland, dir. Chloe Zhao (2020)

I’m Your Man, dir. Maria Schrader (2021)

Teyana Taylor in A THOUSAND AND ONE

The Power of the Dog, dir. Jane Campion (2021)

Aftersun, dir. Charlotte Wells (2022)

Showing Up, dir. Kelly Reichardt (2022)

The People’s Joker, dir. Vera Drew (2022)

The Woman King, dir. Gina Prince-Bythewood (2022)

Women Talking, dir. Sarah Polley (2022)

A Thousand and One, dir. A.V. Rockwell (2023)

All Dirt Roads Taste of Salt, dir. Raven Jackson (2023)

Anatomy of a Fall, dir. Justine Triet (2023)

Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret, dir. Kelly Fremon Craig (2023)

Barbie, dir. Greta Gerwig (2023)

La Chimera, dir. Alice Rohrwacher (2023)

Lily Gladstone in JAZZY

Origin, dir. Ava DuVernay (2023)

Past Lives, dir. Celine Song (2023)

The Eternal Memory, dir. Maite Alberdi (2023)

The Starling Girl, dir. Laurel Parmet (2023)

Ghostlight, dir. Kelly O’Sullivan and Alex Thompson (2024)

I Saw the TV Glow, dir. Jane Schoenbrun (2024)

Jazzy, dir. Morissa Maltz (2024)

The Substance, dir. Coralie Fargeat (2024)

Sorry, Baby, dir. Eva Victor (2025)

Directors with multiple nominations:

Gillian Armstrong, Alice Guy-Blaché, Jane Campion, Sofia Coppola, Claire Denis, Maya Deren, Ava DuVernay, Greta Gerwig, Ida Lupino, Penny Marshall, Sarah Polley, Kelly Reichardt, Alice Rohrwacher, Agnès Varda, Lois Weber, Chloe Zhao

My Top 25 Films of 2025

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Tue, 27 Jan 2026 08:01:00 +0000

It's tradition for me to choose a top 10 list of films each year. This year, I felt compelled to create a top 25 because I couldn't stand the thought of leaving one of these gems behind. The year 2025 was a good one for movies, and often only a dozen or so films enter the awards conversation. You will find some expected films on the list, but I'm confident you will find at least one film mentioned that you haven't seen talked about yet (unless you follow me closely). I thought about ranking my list, but that proved too difficult. I can say that ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER is the best crafted film of the year, and I saw it in theaters multiple times. But it's not necessarily my favorite. SINNERS will be the film with the most staying power, and I predict its rich legacy will be in the conversation for decades to come. Perhaps the best surprise of the year came in the form of THE UGLY STEPSISTER, a body horror fairy tale that entranced me from the first moment. But each of these films are noteworthy for different reasons. So I present them to you in alphabetical order, rather than in any kind of preference.

Parenthetical insertions represent that a film is included via streaming subscription.

40 ACRES, directed by R. T. Thorne (Hulu)

The theme of Black farmers has loomed large in the past few years with documentaries like SILVER DOLLAR ROAD, SEEDS, and FARMING WHILE BLACK. It's only natural that eventually someone would make a feature film -- and a good one at that. In this case, a family has survived simply because they stay together and sustain themselves on what they make at their humble but stable abode. The best parts of both Black and Indigenous cultures coalesce at the Freeman Farm, sustaining a rich heritage. They don't interfere with others and those who try to trespass face the consequences.

Yet it's natural that the children raised by such independent parents will want to make their own way at some point and be curious to know what other children are like. The story pulls you in from the get-go by showing you how this family operates when everyone follows the family code. Then shows you what happens when boundaries get crossed and mistakes happen. The genre blend of apocalyptic, horror, and thriller works nicely to make the story digestible for larger audiences.

THE BALLAD OF WALLIS ISLAND, directed by James Griffiths (Prime Video)

My taste often leans towards the bleaker side of life when it comes to film. Get too sentimental or feel-good and I'm likely to call bullocks. But the British have a knack for peppering their sappier stories with dry humor or curmudgeonly characters to balance the mood. Add in an old flame and and an original soundtrack of catchy tunes, and I'm sold.

One half of a broken up folk duo gets invited to a secluded island to play for an audience of one – a devoted fan who has won the lottery twice. Only the fan hasn't shared that he has invited the other half of the duo also, now married to someone else. As they try to reunite to perform their greatest hits, old feelings stir, bringing complications to an already awkward situation. If you liked ONCE, you will love this bittersweet comedy with subtle messages about loss and finding joy when you can.

BRING HER BACK, directed by Michael and Danny Philippou (HBO Max)

The Philippou brothers follow up their debut of TALK TO ME with BRING HER BACK, a deeply unsettling film that spiked my anxiety levels from the jump and didn't ease up until the very end.

After their father kills himself, a pair of step-siblings, Andy and Piper, get sent to a foster home for what they hope is three short months. Foster mom Laura has other plans for their stay -- mainly in regards to Piper. The older sibling, named Andy is clearly not as wanted as Piper, although it's not clear why other than that Laura lost a daughter. There is one other resident of the household, a tween boy named Oliver with an unusual scar under one eye. There's something not quite right about all of this but darned if you won't know the truth until almost the ending, when it's too late.

The cast all give formidable performances, an impressive feat since three out of the four main people are teens. Billy Barratt is the clear standout as Andy, a teen with more invisible scars than one can imagine. Sally Hawkins, a star known for quirky, gentle performances goes a different direction as a mother trying to deal with her own grief and loss. With incredible nuance, she portrays a person with inherent giftings of empathy and healing, now converted by heartbreak into a capacity to inflict irreparable damage.

DEAF PRESIDENT NOW!, directed by Nyle DiMarco and Davis Guggenheim (Apple TV)

This lively, aurally dynamic documentary sheds light on a historical moment in the deaf community. It's 1988, and the campus of Gallaudet University gets turned upside down when the Board of Trustees chooses to appoint a hearing candidate as the seventh president of the school over the two deaf candidates. Tired of waiting for better representation, the student body stage a nonviolent coup, lead by four students. Over the course of the week, we witness the fascinating series of events unfold to a triumphant conclusion.

The filmmakers use sound design to center the perspective of someone who is deaf, often muffling or dropping sound completely. All four of the student leaders serve as narrators looking back on the past. They recall their memories of what took place, offering eyewitness testimony (appropriately signed and captioned). In a time that feels devoid of hope, it's good to see an underdog story that ended in victory in only a week. But a movement can take years to take root, and some revolutionaries never see a change come in their lifetime.

FAMILIAR TOUCH, directed by Sarah Friedland (MUBI)

FAMILIAR TOUCH is a gentle, down-to-earth portrait of a woman with dementia settling into a memory care unit. There are no fits or bouts of terror. Just a woman living in an unfamiliar place and handling the challenge with grace and dignity. The transition to a healthcare residential facility can be a jarring one but can be made easier when the staff is as compassionate and well-trained as this group.

Words don't always help a situation and often they can hurt. The power of a wordless touch can settle and soothe the nervous system. Throughout the film, the camera focuses on the ways people touch Ruth to help her feel safe and cared for. In her state of dementia, Ruth believes her son's closeness means he's a gentleman caller. Later, she basks in the healing kindness of a doctor's touch as he takes her pulse or checks her heartbeat. A pool of water envelopes her skin as a physical therapist uses non-invasive touches to keep her muscles mobile.

Ruth's skills as a cook ground her to her past and give her a place and purpose as she creates a new home. Rather than see her desire to keep up these skills as a nuisance, they allow her to continue. In a world where the elderly aren't always treated well, FAMILIAR TOUCH may restore your faith that aging doesn't have to be traumatic.

FRANKENSTEIN, directed by Guillermo del Toro (Netflix)

Guillermo del Toro injects new life into a well-worn classic with a gothic fairy tale wrapper and surprising amounts of theological depth as the Creature considers his place in the world.

First we have Victor, the Creator, desperate to prove his worth to the world. The child of an abusive father, he grows up with the absolute certainty that he can never quite measure up. His twisted image of fatherhood bends towards his own experiences.

Then, we have the Creature, pieced together from remnants of dead bodies and jolted into new life by Victor's dogged willpower. Victor is the Creature's God – his Father. Forced to care for something that he believed would give him power, Victor despises the Creature – his dependence, his emotional fragility, his desire to please and be pleasing. He sees himself as his father must have – and hates him for it.

Jacob Elordi gives a mesmerizing and mostly wordless performance as the Creature, moving with the grace of a dancer and the hesitation and joy of a toddler. Scream Queen Mia Goth comes across as sweet and soulful, a kindred spirit for a Creature of such innocence. While not a perfect film, for its production design and spiritual depths, Frankenstein is still one of the best movie experiences I had this year.

LITTLE AMÉLIE OR THE CHARACTER OF RAIN, directed by Maïlys Vallade and Liane-Cho Han [French language]

Amélie is brought into the world believing she's God. This premise makes sense when you think about how parents treat their babies like the center of the universe. She lives with her Belgian family in post-War Japan, able to enjoy simple pleasures, like the gardens that surround her home. She finds special affinity with Nishio-san, their Japanese housekeeper, who seems to understand how to handle Amelie's unpredictable mood swings with ease.

But what makes this film special isn't the story itself – it's the way the story makes you feel. Clearly inspired by Studio Ghibli films, the film sets a fantastical, surreal tone. Our hero Amélie is allowed the full range of emotions and takes advantage of opportunities to soak in the outdoors. Her life reminds me of the innocence of childhood. She is selfish, brave, joyful, sad, determined, and endearing. She is worthy of love and can acts like a little tyrant. I loved her dearly, with her green eyes and love for white chocolate. The animation style puts you in a trance and shows you a world you never want to wake up from. Prepare to fall in love with LITTLE AMÉLIE.

A LITTLE PRAYER, directed by Angus MacLachlan

“You want something to love that’s all your own. Something that’s all yours. Well, you have never had children. They don’t belong to you, and they will break your heart.”

“We’ll just be here when they need us.”

These quotes are said by Bill (David Straithairn) and Venida (Celia Weston), a married
couple in their autumn years still trying to wrap their heads around their boundaries as parents. They have managed to raise two adults whose marriages and lives are trainwrecks. Bill and Venida struggle, as many parents do, with finding a sweet spot between enablement and passivity. They have to learn the hard way that sometimes a better form of love means allowing your kids to clean up their own messes and remaining on standby until the moment they fall into your arms. There’s strength in not interfering and remaining in watchful prayer.

Connections to faith also come from simple conversations in the kitchen, often about the loud neighbor who sings gospel tunes loudly out the window, with no shame or thought of who might be bothered. We keep thinking maybe the neighbor in question will appear and offer some words of wisdom. This was not to be. There is no Boo Radley-esque figure who shows up to save the day at the last minute. Just a family trying to make it through the next year, month, day, or hour. I also have a special love for this film made in North Carolina. The ending scenes are shot at the Reynolda House, a mansion turned museum that I have visited many times.

LURKER, directed by Alex Russell (MUBI)

In the cinematic tradition of ALL ABOUT EVE, THE TALENTED MR. RIPLEY, and SALTBURN, a parasitic social climber gains influence through an unusual propensity for hanging around.

Matthew (Théodore Pellerin) is an average looking guy who works at a clothing store where trending pop singer Oliver sometimes shops. Although Matthew lacks any inherent charisma, some innate part of him understands social dynamics enough to be noticed by Oliver. Matthew begins shooting footage for a documentary that Oliver envisions will launch his career. But Matthew quickly realizes that for Oliver, he's just the flavor of the week. Eventually, everyone is shown the exit. The story could have ended with Oliver's dismissal of Matthew and been a semi-interesting tale of a narcissistic relationship cycle gone bad. But Matthew isn't content to slide out the door.

No one respects a parasite, but in some cases parasites prove themselves to be indispensable. Only when they've proven they add something irreplaceable does the power change. Once Matthew finds his lever of power, Oliver can't get rid of him and maybe doesn't want to. This psychological cat-and-mouse game is a devious delight from start to finish. From the smallest side character to the two leads, each actor is at the top of their game and plays a role in painting a picture of the risks and rewards of being part of a celebrity's entourage. Read my full review.

MARTY SUPREME, directed by Josh Safdie

Based on real table tennis champion Marty Reisman, MARTY SUPREME is a feverish anxiety attack masquerading as an underdog athlete story about the similarly named Marty Mauser.

Marty's confidence drives him towards his goal of being table tennis grand champion. There is no lie too steep to keep him away from his self-proclaimed purpose. In underdog stories, we follow the competitor through the ebbs and flows of their efforts to make it to the top, rooting for them every step of the way. We want to see the little guy win. But director Josh Safdie boldly imbues his underdog story with ample socio-political complications that muddle the expectations. Marty isn't your typical underdog. He's a morally gray protagonist, bringing havoc wherever he goes and making a general nuisance of himself.

In the closing challenge, the Japanese are there to see their beloved Endo celebrate his victory as champion. Instead, they attend an exhibition game, only to see Endo lose to someone they consider a buffoon. In this post-WW2 society, the Japanese do not want further humiliation at the hands of Americans. And you feel that in this movie, even though it's never verbally expressed. But it does impact the amount of celebration we can feel over this pompous, charming, reckless, irresponsible, arrogant American defeating a Japanese champion that has done nothing wrong but win at his game. Endo, who is hearing impaired (a disability that may, in fact, be a result of an American attack) has probably had to overcome great obstacles to be champ. Safdie shows considerable talent as a filmmaker by creating an unlikeable character that we are still unwilling to leave. I might not want to be his friend, but I wouldn't mind being in his cheering section.

NO OTHER CHOICE, directed by Park Chan-wook [Korean language]

A man who feels he has everything has his happiness curtailed by a lay off. Now the luxuries of even owning a dog are taken away. Man-su needs a new job and nothing but paper will do. He devices a creative scheme with a pragmatic approach. He creates a fake paper company and advertises for a top position. When the resumes come pouring in, he identifies which people are more qualified than him and plans to kill off his competition.

With AI bots ready and able to do the skilled jobs that once required humans, what's an efficient and careful worker bee to do? Park Chan-Wook has devised a Rube Goldberg-esque mouse maze of delights for cinema lovers. How one thing leads to another is a delicious treat. Anyone who has ever experienced a layoff will appreciate this timely and often funny crime thriller.

ON BECOMING A GUINEA FOWL, directed by Rungano Nyoni [Bemba language] (HBO Max)

As Shula drives home from a party, she finds her Uncle Fred dead in the middle of the road. She responds with a deadpan disinterest that seems puzzling. She calls dad, and he promises to come, if she can send him money. Drunk cousin Nsansa shows up instead of the dad. She's not exactly there to help, but she's available.

The family comes together for a wake and what plays out is a complicated story of family dynamics, generational trauma, gaslighting, and an unhealthy indulgence of male dominance. The two cousins go through their own journey of discovering how deep the cover up of uncle's sins goes in this family as they sit through tribal councils and the real power center of a gaggle of aunties that need to block any attempts to bring light to the ugly truth. Her memories of a child's nature program about a guinea fowl act as an allegory for the desire to find protection and shelter in a place that is not safe for women.

ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER, directed by Paul Thomas Anderson (HBO Max)

Definitely the best crafted movie of the year. A movie in chapters: Part 1 = revolutionaries in love rise up, part 2 = the lovers break up, leaving daughter and dad in witness protection, part 3 = Dad having to remember his training to save daughter from crazy baby daddy.

No matter how you try to explain the plot, it will never convey the experience of watching ONE BATTLE. And there are a million interpretations of what the film means. This is a journey across our country, across our political divide, addressing the often asked question, "How did we get here?" We take stands, we care, we speak up for what we believe, and we try to create the world that we want to live in. But at the end of the day, it's the people we love that will drive us to the ends of the Earth.

THE PLAGUE, directed by Charlie Polinger

From the halls of my nightmares comes THE PLAGUE. Ben's parents have just divorced, and he is forced to move to a new town. His mother decides to send him to a water polo camp. What Mom doesn't know is that the water polo camp has been usurped by a middle school hierarchy of power and control.

Ben enters in as a passive participant at first. The boys all seem to target a boy named Eli that they claim has the plague. Eager for acceptance, Ben goes along with the hazing, but in a predator/prey society, it's easy to become the target if you question any part. Ben tries to walk two paths for a time. He's friends with Eli in secret and still hangs with the main crowd. Eventually, he speaks up, and that decision costs him dearly. A scene that clearly pays homage to FULL METAL JACKET joins my collection of "scenes I never want to see again." Gratefully, Ben eventually awakens to the fact that living under the need for crowd approval is a suffocating weight, but he has a painful journey to get there.

PREDATOR: BADLANDS, directed by Dan Trachtenberg

Small for his clan, Dek flies to planet Genna determined to prove his worth by killing the apex predator of that planet, the Kalisk. He reluctantly teams up with Thia, a damaged android who has a special skill set of her own. Dek's people have taught him that strength is measured in size and how many people he kills. Thia teaches him about the way of the wolves, that the alpha is the person who takes care of the pack. Having never seen a PREDATOR film, I thought this would be a violent movie about aliens. What do I know? Instead, I get a buddy action flick with the dressings of a superhero story. Themes of friendship, loyalty, and chosen family had me smiling through this visually stunning film. Enjoy it in 3D if you can!

PREDATORS, directed by David Osit (Paramount Plus)

This documentary defied my expectations in every way. Far from being a celebration of the reality TV show TO CATCH A PREDATOR, it instead becomes a thoughtful examination of the harm such television might be inflicting on society. If you've never seen the show, in each episode, a predator is lured to a house by someone posing as an under age teen. Instead, the predator is confronted by host Chris Hansen, who shames them into admitting their sins on live television.

David Osit's documentary examines the legacy the show left. Hansen always asked the culprits why they did such things but never seemed particularly interested in the answer to that question. Instead, the show revels in the shock of their sins and our moral disgust of catching them in the act. And copycat versions of the show exist, hosted by people less well trained than Hansen, who at least had an air of treating his targets with human curiosity. As a survivor of sexual assault, Osit seeks to interrogate if treating predators this way has any positive impact. Should entrapment be a source of entertainment or are they actually creating the outcome they claim to want to avoid? PREDATORS may find you thinking twice about your reality TV consumption.

SINNERS, directed by Ryan Coogler (HBO Max)

During the Jim Crow South, twin brothers Smoke and Stack return home to Mississippi and decide to open a juke joint, but unexpected visitors show up, wanting to join in the fun. A period piece, a vampire story, a history lesson, a musical – SINNERS is all of this and more. Ryan Coogler creates a fully immersive world, celebrates Black culture, and warns everyone of the danger of allowing the wrong people into your house. ONE BATTLE may be the best film of the year, but SINNERS will pass the test of time and be a film remembered for decades as the film that brought the blues into mainstream conversation.

SIRĀT, directed by Oliver Laxe [Spanish, French, English, Arabic languages]

MAD MAX meets AMERICAN HONEY but set in Morocco. Luis and his son Esteban show up to a rave, determined to find oldest child, Mar. Mar is nowhere to be found but reluctant ravers Bigui, Stef, Josh, Tonin, and Jade (all nonprofessional actors using their real names) agree to let the domestics join their caravan. Perhaps Mar will be at the next rave they plan to attend. The missing daughter's absence looms large over the film. Why did she run away? Luis claims she didn't leave on bad terms, but then why is he so determined to find her?

SIRAT is a vibe. The ravers are young and fearless. They seek adrenaline and a moment and relief from their cares. But they are also loyal to one another and their nomadic lifestyle. Luis and Esteban don't fit in, but as the road trip continues, they evolve. You get the feeling that Mar perhaps found life with Luis to be suffocating. She sought the same freedom that his new travel companions do, and this challenges his approach to situations. I like to think that by the end, he has evolved and is more willing to take chances and go with the wind, but that might be my idealistic side talking. With a driving musical score by electronic musician Kangding Ray, SIRAT is a celebration of dance and a journey into the heart of darkness.

SOULEYMANE'S STORY, directed by Boris Lojkine [French, Fula, Maninka] (Roku)

An immigrant story that will break your heart, we meet Souleymane, a Guinean immigrant who lives in Paris. We follow Souleymane through the streets of Paris as he rides around on his bike, delivering food from an app. But he isn't able to earn the money legally, so he rents the account from someone else named Emmanuel, who expects a commission for allowing Souleymane to use his name and identity.

Making every second count has become a necessity for Souleymane as he works himself to the bone trying to earn one more dollar, for everyone wants a piece of his meager salary. He needs money to send back home to the man caring for his mother. He needs to pay Barry, a man who claims to have the paperwork and knowledge to help him pass his hearing. And Emmanuel takes 50% of every dollar he makes. He has to wake up early to reserve a bed at a homeless shelter and work late to maximize his earnings.

Surviving as an immigrant is properly depicted as a futile, demoralizing experience. But one might endure it if they can hold on to their identity. When immigrants come to another country, there's a pressure to acculturate and fit into a box. For Souleymane, this only intensifies with Barry's insistence that he needs to lie about his story to pass the hearing. Let SOULEYMAN'S STORY inspire you to question everything you think you knew about immigrants.

STEVE, directed by Tim Mielants (Netflix)

There have been a billion movies made about teachers who go into a school or class, whip it into shape, and end the semester with a success story. STEVE uses this well-worn trope to tell a different kind of story – a teacher who keeps going even though the results don't visibly pay off. Yes, he's making a difference, but he might never see the proof. What keeps someone like him going?

Steve is the headmaster of an alternative boarding school for "troubled boys." They are crass, prone to temperamental outbursts, rude, obnoxious, and all the things. And unlike an average school that might have 10% of its population acting out at any one time, it's every student at Steve's school. He records memos for himself to try to remember all of the case workers, parents, staff, and students he needs to touch base with. Oh, and members of the media and government often show up wanting to use his school as leverage for their next story or campaign. He allows it because maybe they will financially support his school. In between encounters, he pops pills and calls himself stupid. He's not kind to himself.

The story takes place over the course of 24 hours, with a clock giving us updates throughout the day. He clearly adores the boys, but the simplest task is made complicated by their constant need to test him. He offers a wonderful model for how he cares for the boys but a terrible one in how he cares for himself. Still I found it moving, especially the ending monologue where he explains to his new staff member what he sees in each of the boys. They are precious in his sight.

THE TESTAMENT OF ANN LEE, directed by Mona Fastvold

Mona Fastvold directs and Amanda Seyfried stars in the first ever (as I can tell) narrative feature film about the Shaker religion. And she bravely goes full out and films it as a musical. This is an appropriate choice because besides celibacy and expertly crafted furniture, the third thing the Shakers became known for was their large, raucous, lively worship service. These gatherings are filmed with the unabashed enthusiasm of a Pentecostal service.

The life and times of the group's founder Ann Lee serve as the center of this film. How she came to conviction about a life of celibacy. How her religious upbringing and home life informed her choices. Amanda Seyfried deserves all her flowers for this athletic, vulnerable, courageous, and tireless performance. Lewis Pullman also stands out as her brother, a faithful congregant and her constant companion until his death.

This film stands out as a landmark story of an important and often misunderstood religious sect. You may not want to become a Shaker, but the devotion and courage they showed for their faith is certainly admirable. In one scene they sing, "I never did believe that I ever could be saved without giving all to God," expressing peace and relief at their ability to surrender to a Higher Power. It may also may ground viewers to remember what religious persecution actually looks like.

TWINLESS, directed by James Sweeney (Hulu)

James Sweeney directs and co-stars in TWINLESS, a dark comedy about two men who meet in a support group for survivors who have lost a twin. Roman (Dylan O'Brien) tries to move forward after his twin brother Rocky dies. Even though we learn that they haven't spoken in awhile, he struggles to do the most basic things alone. He meets Dennis (James Sweeney) at a grief support group, and the two seem to hit it off immediately. Roman appreciates that Dennis understands his pain and also feels connected by the fact that Dennis is gay, just like Rocky. The pair gets closer and become intertwined in each other's lives, but once Roman begins to date Marcie (an upbeat Aisling Franciosi), Dennis feels abandoned and struggles to keep his affection for Roman strictly platonic. What starts as a sweet but somewhat bland meet-cute friendship story quickly becomes something more raw, real, and slightly twisted.

Viewers should enter into TWINLESS as blind as possible and avoid reading review or spoilers. The story begins in Roman's perspective and then stops, reverses, and begins again through the eyes of Dennis, causing us to question all that has come so far. The term "male loneliness epidemic" gets thrown around a lot, but Sweeney's screenplay brings this to life.

TWINLESS offers a painfully honest look at the risks of male friendship. It can provide balm but become toxic when deception exists, leaving both parties feel betrayed. For me personally, it offered a different meaning. As a single person, I have spent a lot of time being a third wheel or not being chosen by the person you choose. Watching Sweeney go through the highs and lows of meeting Roman, being his +1, and then losing that privilege felt all too real. Read my full review.

THE UGLY STEPSISTER, directed by Emilie Blichfeldt [Norwegian, Polish, etc] (Shudder)

THE UGLY STEPSISTER follows a rich tradition of revisionist literature where a character thought of as the bad guy gets a chance to tell their side of the story. But unlike Elphaba in Wicked, the titular ugly stepsister's sufferings manifest as a gruesome and disturbing body horror. Those with squeamish stomachs, be warned. THE UGLY STEPSISTER will make even the heartiest Cronenberg fan sweat.

Our ugly stepsister of interest, Elvira, arrives with her mother, Rebekka, and younger sister, Alma, on the day of the wedding of Rebekka and Otto. Otto keels over dead, leaving Rebekka with a pile of debts and a third daughter to care for, the effortlessly beautiful Agnes. Of course, the mother desperately wants her own daughters to marry wealthy so that she can continue the life to which she's grown accustomed, but Elvira has her own raison d'être. A romantic at heart, she loves words and dreams of marrying the local prince, a published poet. If only Elvira was as beautiful as Agnes. Her mother puts her through a harrowing battery of beauty regimes meant to bring her up to snuff.

Destined to be a cult classic, THE UGLY STEPSISTER is a blessed addition to the twisted fairy tale cinematic universe with its relatable, flawed heroine and ultimately empowering message. Read my full review.

THE VOICE OF HIND RAJAB, directed by Kaouther Ben Hania [Arabic]

The war between Israel and Gaza takes a different shape through the eyes of the first responders who receive phone calls at a call center. This time it's a cry for help from a child trapped in a car after her whole family has been slaughtered. The staff go through a Sisyphean effort to coordinate an ambulance rescue. What should be a 10-minute ambulance ride to little Hind crawls into hours as the group tries and fails to secure safe passage for a convoy. Actors reenact the events edited together with recordings of the real phone calls from Hind Rajab. This immaculately edited docudrama will have you riveted and horrified at the helplessness these workers feel and the hopeful pleading of Hind.

WAKE UP DEAD MAN: A KNIVES OUT MYSTERY, directed by Rian Johnson (Netflix)

Father Jud wants to make a difference at a parish. His life as an ex boxer means he has a past of ruthless energy, but this only emerges when he sees someone weak taking a beating. Then his protective instincts kick in. So a power-hungry monsignor is going to be a wrath trigger for Father Jud.

What is special about this third KNIVES OUT is how it merges a cozy mystery with a faith journey -- not just of the congregants and Father Jud, but of Benoit Blanc himself. No, he's not going to convert to Christianity, but he may have to convert his methods once he witnesses the compassionate ministry of Father Jud.

Investigators always have a keen mind and a special understanding of human psychology. This helps them to analyze the material best and see what's really underneath the trappings. But Blanc's methods are constantly undermined by Father Jud's desire to protect the sheep in his care. Blanc has to admit that this humble priest might actually be better able to gain a confession by being a loving protector and agent of grace. And this changes Blanc.

To see previous years' lists, go here.

Alabama Pilgrimage Reflections by Bev Iber: Precious Beads at the Bottom of the Ocean

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Wed, 21 Jan 2026 16:07:00 +0000

Today's pilgrim is Bev Iber. Bev is a gemologist who has a love for Africa. She lived in Kenya for 8 years mining gemstones. She has owned many businesses including the most recent one in Fearrington Village for 21 years. Bev often processes revelations or difficult subjects through the gathering of beads into jewelry that can be worn and used to pass on the message. Bev shares about her life growing up in Texas, as well as the pieces of jewelry she was inspired to make after visiting the Legacy Museum and seeing the haunting 3D images of bodies buried at the bottom of the ocean.

If you would like to learn more about the Alabama Pilgrimage, visit the DurhamCares website at durhamcares.org.

The music in this series is entitled Brothers and Sisters by Alana Jordan on Pixabay.

Let's Debate the NC Film Critic Nominations of 2025

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Fri, 16 Jan 2026 06:37:00 +0000

A still from LITTLE AMELIE AND THE CHARACTER OF RAIN

The NC Film Critics Association (NCFCA) announced their Best of Cinema Nominees for 2025. And for the third year in a row, I’m joined by fellow NC Film Critics to gab about the nominations and share our hopes for the winners’ circle.

The NCFCA is made up of 69 members who either work or live in the Tar Heel state. To see the full list of nominations, as well as previous years' winners, visit the website.

This ambitious group boasts 27 categories of awards, including some unusual categories such as voice actor, directorial debut, breakthrough performance, the Ken Hanke Memorial Tar Heel Award for a film or person with a North Carolina connection, and a lifetime achievement award that honors a contribution to cinema in a different category each year. This year the group elected to award an achievement in costume design. We chose to talk about 16 of the categories for this conversation. We encourage you to follow the group's business at ncfilmcritics.org or on Bluesky/X @NCFilmCritics.

A still from SENTIMENTAL VALUE

The final winners will be announced on January 26, 2025. Stay tuned until then.

About Anthony Holden: Anthony is part of NC Film Critics and is a Detroit-transplant who loves movies. In addition to writing movie reviews, he's a co-host on the Double Feature: Versus podcast, a show where two cinephiles clash heads on two competing films with a similar theme. Anthony recommends you check out PRESENCE, directed by Steven Soderbergh, or RESURRECTION, directed by Bi Gan. Find Anthony: Website: 8bitwaffles.com; IG and Twitter: @BlakCinephile; YouTube @doublefeatureversus.

A still from SINNERS

About Andrew J. Eisenman: Andrew is the incoming Community Engagement Coordinator for the NC Film Critics. He currently writes for Elements of Madness and Pontificator.org. You can also find Andrew on Bluesky @AndrewJEisenman. Andrew recommends you watch DOGS ON THE SENDERO, directed by Michael Flores, and EEPHUS, directed by Carson Lund.

About Pruett Norris: Pruett Norris is a journalist and film critic based in Asheville, N.C. He writes for online publication 828newsNOW about all manner of things, but his output can be broken down as "breaking news to movie reviews," with a side of broader arts and entertainment coverage. Pruett recommends you watch THE MASTERMIND, directed by Kelly Reichardt, and EDDINGTON, directed by Ari Aster. You can find Pruett at 828NewsNow.com.

A still from SIRAT

About Lindsey: Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories. Lindsey recommends you watch THE UGLY STEPSISTER, directed by Emilie Blichfeldt, or BRING HER BACK, directed by Michael and Danny Phillippou.

North Carolina Film Critics Association (NCFCA) Announces the Best of Cinema Winners for 2025

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Mon, 12 Jan 2026 21:29:00 +0000

I am one of 69 North Carolina film critics. Here is our list of nominated films for this year's awards and the winners! Listen to a podcast where some of the group debate the nominations.

A still from SINNERS

BEST NARRATIVE FILM

Frankenstein
Hamnet
It Was Just an Accident
Marty Supreme
No Other Choice
One Battle After Another
Sentimental Value
Sinners -WINNER
Train Dreams
Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery
Weapons

A still from THE ALABAMA SOLUTION

BEST DOCUMENTARY FILM

The Alabama Solution

Cover-Up
Orwell: 2+2=5
The Perfect Neighbor -WINNER
Predators

A still from LITTLE AMELIE

BEST ANIMATED FILM

Arco
Elio
KPop Demon Hunters - WINNER
Little Amélie or the Character of Rain
Zootopia 2

A still from NO OTHER CHOICE

BEST FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM

It Was Just an Accident - TIE FOR WINNER
No Other Choice
The Secret Agent
Sentimental Value - TIE FOR WINNER
The Voice of Hind Rajab

A still from ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER

BEST DIRECTOR

Paul Thomas Anderson — One Battle After Another
Park Chan-wook — No Other Choice
Ryan Coogler — Sinners - WINNER
Guillermo del Toro — Frankenstein
Josh Safdie — Marty Supreme

Michael B. Jordan as SMOKE from SINNERS

ACTOR IN A LEADING ROLE

Timothée Chalamet — Marty Supreme
Leonardo DiCaprio — One Battle After Another
Ethan Hawke — Blue Moon
Michael B. Jordan — Sinners - WINNER
Jesse Plemons — Bugonia

Jessie Buckley as AGNES in HAMNET

ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE

Jessie Buckley — Hamnet - WINNER
Rose Byrne — If I Had Legs I’d Kick You
Chase Infiniti — One Battle After Another
Jennifer Lawrence — Die My Love
Emma Stone — Bugonia

Jacob Elordi as THE CREATURE from FRANKENSTEIN

ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE

Benicio del Toro — One Battle After Another
Jacob Elordi — Frankenstein - WINNER
Delroy Lindo — Sinners
Sean Penn — One Battle After Another
Stellan Skarsgård — Sentimental Value

Inga Ibsdotter Lilleas in SENTIMENTAL VALUE

ACTRESS IN A SUPPORTING ROLE

Odessa A’zion — Marty Supreme
Inga Ibsdotter Lilleaas — Sentimental Value
Amy Madigan — Weapons -WINNER
Wunmi Mosaku — Sinners
Teyana Taylor — One Battle After Another

A still from WAKE UP DEAD MAN

BEST ACTING ENSEMBLE

Marty Supreme
One Battle After Another
Sentimental Value
Sinners - WINNERS
Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery
Weapons

A still from KPOP DEMON HUNTERS

BEST VOCAL PERFORMANCE IN ANIMATION OR MIXED MEDIA

Jason Bateman — Zootopia 2
Arden Cho — KPop Demon Hunters -WINNER
May Hong — KPop Demon Hunters
Ke Huy Quan — Zootopia 2
Ji-young Yoo — KPop Demon Hunters

A still from IT WAS JUST AN ACCIDENT

BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY

It Was Just an Accident
Marty Supreme
Sentimental Value
Sinners - WINNER
Weapons

A still from BUGONIA

BEST ADAPTED SCREENPLAY

Bugonia
Frankenstein
No Other Choice
One Battle After Another -WINNER
Train Dreams
Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery

A still from TRAIN DREAMS

BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY

Frankenstein
No Other Choice
One Battle After Another
Sinners -WINNER
Train Dreams

A still form MARTY SUPREME

BEST EDITING

F1
Marty Supreme
No Other Choice
One Battle After Another
Sinners -WINNER

A still from WICKED: FOR GOOD

BEST COSTUME DESIGN

Frankenstein - WINNER
Hamnet
Marty Supreme
Sinners
Wicked: For Good

A still from 28 YEARS LATER

BEST HAIR AND MAKEUP

28 Years Later
Frankenstein - WINNER
Sinners
Weapons
Wicked: For Good

A still from HAMNET

BEST PRODUCTION DESIGN

Frankenstein - WINNER
Hamnet
Marty Supreme
One Battle After Another
Sinners
Wicked: For Good

A still from AVATAR: FIRE AND ASH

BEST SPECIAL EFFECTS

Avatar: Fire and Ash - WINNER
F1
Frankenstein
Sinners
Superman

A still from SIRAT

BEST SOUND DESIGN

F1
Frankenstein
One Battle After Another
Sinners - WINNER
Sirât
Warfare

A still from SINNERS

BEST SCORE

Bugonia
Marty Supreme
One Battle After Another
Sinners - WINNER
Train Dreams

A still from SINNERS

BEST ORIGINAL SONG

“Golden” — KPop Demon Hunters - WINNER
“Highest 2 Lowest” — Highest 2 Lowest
“I Lied to You” — Sinners
“Last Time (I Seen the Sun)” — Sinners
“Train Dreams” — Train Dreams
“What It Sounds Like,” — KPop Demon Hunters

A still from THE PLAGUE

DIRECTORIAL DEBUT

Andrew DeYoung — Friendship
Lawrence Lamont — One of Them Days
Ben Leonberg — Good Boy
Charlie Polinger — The Plague
Eva Victor — Sorry, Baby - WINNER

A still from F1

BEST STUNT COORDINATION

F1
Mission: Impossible – The Final Reckoning - WINNER
One Battle After Another
Sinners
Superman

Odessa A'Zion as RACHEL in MARTY SUPREME

BEST BREAKTHROUGH PERFORMANCE

Odessa A’zion — Marty Supreme
Miles Caton — Sinners - WINNER
Chase Infiniti — One Battle After Another
Jacobi Jupe — Hamnet
Eva Victor — Sorry, Baby

A still from MAD MAX: FURY ROAD

LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT: COSTUME DESIGN

Colleen Atwood (SWEENEY TODD, CHICAGO)
Jenny Beavan (MAD MAX: FURY ROAD, CRUELLA)
Ruth E. Carter (BLACK PANTHER, SINNERS) - WINNER
Edith Head (ALL ABOUT EVE, VERTIGO)
Sandy Powell (YOUNG VICTORIA, CAROL, MARY POPPINS RETURNS)

A still from A LITTLE PRAYER

KEN HANKE MEMORIAL TAR HEEL AWARD

A Little Prayer / Angus MacLachlan (NC native; filmed in NC)
Christy (filmed in NC)
I Know What You Did Last Summer (set and filmed in NC)
Roofman (set and filmed in NC) - WINNER
The Problem of the Hero (celebrating North Carolina’s literary and artistic heritage)

A still from GOOD BOY

BEST IN FUR (President's Discretionary Honor)

Indy, the lovable pup, has been awarded a Best in Fur award for his outstanding performance in GOOD BOY.

Stranger Things Finale + Wrap Up: Making Sense of Almost a Decade

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Sat, 10 Jan 2026 19:22:00 +0000

A still from STRANGER THINGS

Do you believe? Believe it or not, it's the end of an era. The STRANGER THINGS Era. For almost a decade now, we have been wrapped up in this TV show. While mileage may vary, there's not a person on this Upside Down planet who hasn't been impacted by this show at some level.

To commemorate the occasion, I'm joined by three guests. Together we make a Core 4, who discuss the finale and then celebrate the show as a whole. Put on your electrode caps, toast an Eggo™, and join Harrison, Raul, Vera and I for an epic podcast. We cover our top moments from the finale, top critiques, top characters, top quotes, and top needle drops. We then take a step back and name our top ten moments from the show as a whole, plus name our crowdsourced top ten from listeners. Find all of our previous Stranger Things coverage.

Nell Fisher as HOLLY

Along the way, I get educated on TOY STORY and get mansplained about how old I am.

About Harrison: Harrison is the founder of Flixfrog, a blog reviewing film and television. He got a part-time job at Regal Cinemas to make watching movies more convenient (OK … free). Even after leaving his job at Regal Cinemas, Harrison would drive hours to any advanced screening in the hopes of someday becoming a certified critic. Since then, the website has grown into a small business venture including reviews, articles, digital content, and much more. You can find Harrison on Twitter @movieguru23 or @flixfrog.

Finn Wolfhard as MIKE

About Raul: Raul is a Puerto Rico born, New England raised narrative enthusiast who is obsessed with the art of visual storytelling. In his life stories are what got him through; the ones he told himself, the ones others shared, & the ones he absorbed from movies, TV, and books. He studied film in Florida and eventually applied himself to criticism before launching Minorities Report-- an outlet focused on increasing diversity in the press space. In his mind there are two indisputable GOATs, David Fincher & Tom Brady, and no one can convince him otherwise but he sure does love it when people try. You can find Raul on Twitter or IG @mreportpod or find his podcast.

Charlie Heaton as JONATHAN, Maya Hawke as ROBIN

About Vera: Vera is a Toronto native who works as a freelance sign language interpreter. She's a proud CODA, movie fan, and mom. Vera is also the Foreign Correspondent and Ghoul Scout Troop Leader for the Fear of God podcast. Find Vera on TikTok or Instagram @veepats.

About Lindsey: Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.

Stranger Things Season 5, Volume 2: As An Exotic Matter of Fact

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Mon, 29 Dec 2025 16:53:00 +0000

Sadie Sink as MAX; Nell Fisher as HOLLY

Harrison Martin aka Flixfrog returns for a discussion on Stranger Things season 5, part 2. While our opinions differ on if this part was better than part 1, we both had things we liked about this newest selection of episodes. We approach the finale with hope and a prayer that this beloved show will end things on a high note.

We break down the character arcs, the un-proposal from Jonathan and Nance, the make up between Steve and Dustin, the coming out scene with Will, and the satisfaction of seeing Max wake up.

Caleb McLaughlin as LUCAS, Finn Wolfhard as MIKE, Winona Ryder as JOYCE, Noah Schnapp as WILL, Maya Hawke as ROBIN

There's much more, but we do take a pit stop to discuss our favorite snacks and end with our outstanding character awards. All this, and more awaits those who enter. Mellon!

Consider reviewing our season 4 coverage: part 1 and part 2. Go here to review season 5 part 1. The finale drops on New Year's Eve. Check local theaters if you would like to see it on the big screen.

Natalia Dyer as NANCY

About Harrison Martin: Harrison Martin is the founder of Flixfrog, a blog reviewing film and television. He got a part-time job at Regal Cinemas to make watching movies more convenient (OK … free). Even after leaving his job at Regal Cinemas, Harrison would drive hours to any advanced screening in the hopes of someday becoming a certified critic. Since then, the website has grown into a small business venture including reviews, articles, digital content, and much more. You can find Harrison on Twitter @movieguru23 or @flixfrog.

Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.

Jamie Campbell Bowers as VECNA

Welcome to Derry, Episode 8: Winter Fire

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Sun, 21 Dec 2025 04:21:00 +0000

Matilda Lawler as MARGE, Amanda Christine as RONNIE, Clara Stack as LILLY

The finale of season 1 is in the books, and Steve and I meet one last time to recap the heck out of this final chapter. We do one last round of Easter eggs, detail each characters' overall arc, and hand out awards to our favorite characters and moments. To see all of our weekly recaps, go here.

We highlight the episode's strengths, such as its horror elements and special effects, while also acknowledging its narrative flaws. More than any other episode, this last chapter seemed to work overtime to connect to pre-existing IP, both through name dropping and cameos. Sure, these things are cool, but only if they are done in a realistic way and not just as fan service.

Bill Skarsgard as PENNYWISE

Key takeaways include the significance of viewer engagement through Easter eggs, the balance of horror and emotional weight, and the ongoing conversation about character relationships in a small-town setting.

Matilda Lawler as MARGE, Clara Stack as LILLY, Blake Cameron James as WILL, Amanda Christine as RONNIE

We hope to see you all again for seasons of Welcome to Derry and other projects.

Amanda Christine as RONNIE, Blake Cameron James as WILL

Steve Barnes is guitarist for stoner metal band Introvoid, and also plays guitar for the cover band Rebecca Crow. All of Steve's stuff can be found at Sweetchildoftime.com.

Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.

Transcript of podcast

00:00:01.59

Lindsey Dunn

Hello and welcome to Welcome to Derry. I'm Lindsey Dunn, your host of the One of My Stories podcast. And with me today is your other host from the Sweet Child of Time podcast.

00:00:14.70

Lindsey Dunn

He's got a serious case of the I told you so's tonight. It's Steve Barnes. Ahoy and beep beep, Steve.

00:00:22.33

Steve Barnes

Oh, beep, beep, Lindsey. Yes, we got a beep, beep in this episode. How are you tonight, Lindsey?

00:00:29.14

Lindsey Dunn

I'm good, Steve. I'm i'm ready to ready to talk about this last episode. And we were commenting on how cold it is.

00:00:38.72

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah.

00:00:39.89

Lindsey Dunn

We need some fire to thwart off the cold. We got some winter fire tonight. And here we are at episode seven, winter fire. So what were your overall reactions to this episode?

00:00:51.37

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm.

00:00:52.41

Steve Barnes

Well, yeah, um I've got a a lot of thoughts. I put most of them at the end of my notes, though, for, um you know, for for the benefit of our conclusion and rating of the episode and season and stuff like that.

00:00:58.97

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:01:05.91

Steve Barnes

um But from the get-go here, I'll just say um this episode I think things were a bit unclear, AKA foggy. There was a ah lot going on that was cloaked under the fog, so to speak. So I think there was some key points that could easily be missed.

00:01:25.53

Steve Barnes

And, um, there's some key things that occurred that were kind of questionable, I guess. So I hope that our discussion can be helpful to anyone who might've missed anything in this episode.

00:01:33.47

Lindsey Dunn

Thank you.

00:01:37.72

Steve Barnes

But yeah, like um it didn't end well. I'm just going to say like, i'm I'm not thrilled with the ending. I'm not thrilled with the episode. have more key points later on about that, but I did have fun. And I think that's the most important thing is like to have fun when you're watching shows like this, because this show is not, it's not here to save anyone's lives. It's here to entertain us and be scary. And you know, it, it succeeded in that respect.

00:02:05.62

Steve Barnes

Um, I don't have a glowing review for my overall thoughts.

00:02:06.52

Lindsey Dunn

huh

00:02:09.34

Steve Barnes

How about yourself, Lindsey?

00:02:11.46

Lindsey Dunn

okay well we're on the same page I think right um I think that overall the special effects that were in the episode tonight combined to give us probably the season's best horror moments with the fog and all of the ample Pennywise time if you

00:02:15.83

Steve Barnes

ah

00:02:29.81

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:02:34.36

Lindsey Dunn

If you want more Pennywise, here you are.

00:02:36.28

Steve Barnes

Oh, God.

00:02:36.76

Lindsey Dunn

We got lots of Pennywise this time. Lots of Bill Skarsgård. So you have probably as a... If you're looking for a horror show, this gives probably the best horror episode, which is fitting for the grand finale.

00:02:50.71

Lindsey Dunn

But like you said, there were a few parts of that that seemed forced and a little silly.

00:02:55.55

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:02:56.47

Lindsey Dunn

And at the same time, it almost didn't have enough weight because when you look at the overall picture... You killed one kid and then Tanyal. So it almost felt like it's felt very horror, at the same time, overall, if you're thinking about a whole cycle, it doesn't feel like it was weighty enough to me, kind of what happened.

00:03:23.74

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:03:25.69

Lindsey Dunn

The emotional beats that we got sort of at the end, some of it was heartfelt and appreciated. But i felt cynical about some of the things that they tried to land at the end, which maybe is some of the fog you're referring to Also, too many leaks took away from any power those final moments could have had because there was a pretty big leak that was out there.

00:03:52.31

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:03:56.20

Lindsey Dunn

And I i kept ignoring that leak. And I kept saying, like, this can't.

00:03:59.13

Steve Barnes

OK.

00:04:01.66

Lindsey Dunn

really be that. This has got to be something else. It cannot possibly tie, um you know, it can't possibly tie into this original Losers Club character.

00:04:13.31

Lindsey Dunn

But it did. And I think everybody who's been listening knows I do not like when they feel like they have to tie all the characters in to, oh, it's this person's mom and this person's dad and and they're all related.

00:04:25.41

Steve Barnes

OK.

00:04:29.36

Lindsey Dunn

And it felt like there was just a lot of that that was forced in there. and I just don't like that. I don't feel like it's natural. That's not the way life is.

00:04:38.51

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:04:38.64

Lindsey Dunn

We don't get everybody related to each other. and it could be cool when, if you look at the time travel angle they've left us with, which we'll get into later, some of that could be work better than I think.

00:04:53.59

Lindsey Dunn

I just think they need Bo. They need Baron Bo over our Nyantre Freeze if you're going to do this because it would it should have been With all the cool things they set up, it should have felt really powerful, but it didn't. It just felt kind of forced at the end there.

00:05:07.95

Steve Barnes

Hmm. Yeah, I got a couple couple rebuttals for you, too. um When you say things connect, when say things that you don't like when things are connected and you don't like how like the that angle of it.

00:05:17.78

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:05:20.54

Steve Barnes

I think it's interesting that we're that you have you and I do in this podcast because I love those type of connections. um So I have the opposite. You know, I'm not saying you're right. or I'm not saying I'm right, but I like those connections. I like finding out so-and-so is connected to so-and-so.

00:05:36.89

Steve Barnes

And I think in the Stephen King universe and especially in a town like Derry, I think that's going to definitely happen because it's a small town. So it's, you know, small towns beget small families and, you know, their names carry on.

00:05:54.04

Steve Barnes

So I think that kind of makes sense in our story, like especially a small town like Derry. So, um, that's where I'm coming from with the connectivity. So i like it where you don't like it.

00:06:05.53

Steve Barnes

But we both agree that we need more Bo in this. beau um Baron Bo Odar and Yonte Fries. And that's something I wanted to to just briefly mention is that there was a Reddit AMA earlier this week that the Muschietes did, andy and Barbara.

00:06:20.43

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:06:22.01

Steve Barnes

And... um Much like this episode, it it was kind of, it was kind of, uh, it was kind of clouded. It was kind of foggy. They only answered 23 questions all told, and they haven't gone back to the AMA. This AMA was like three days ago or more.

00:06:39.90

Steve Barnes

And, um, They haven't gone back to answer any of the questions that people have asked. The usual Reddit AMA is somebody will announce they're doing it a few days ahead of time. People will start asking questions. Sometimes the host will jump on early and start tackling some of the early questions or some of the easy questions. And then the time the AMA happens, there's a lot of interaction generally.

00:07:03.51

Steve Barnes

And It usually lasts for a couple of hours. And then when it's over, usually within this frame of the next couple of days, the person who hosts the AMA will go back and um answer the questions they weren't able to answer. Like in those couple of hours, they did it.

00:07:19.96

Steve Barnes

Well, the machetes were only doing it. They only did it for maybe 45 minutes. Like I said, they answered exactly 23 questions. And then Andy said, this is too much. I can't handle it. And he bailed and they never returned back to it again. So I thought that was, and they didn't answer my question, which was when is Baron Bo Odor and Yonte free is going to be part of this. And are they going to be part of this? And of course that question was not answered.

00:07:47.00

Steve Barnes

Um, So, yeah, I didn't I didn't enjoy their AMA. It is on there under the R slash horror subreddit. If you want to go and check it out. um Barbara Muschietti has started another AMA by herself. So I think we might get more answers with hers. So I need to go after her.

00:08:06.20

Lindsey Dunn

I see. I wondered if the if English is their first language and they were having to translate the questions into their language and then answer them and then translate them back into English or something.

00:08:19.36

Lindsey Dunn

So it might have been, it might have taken longer than we think.

00:08:22.05

Steve Barnes

Hmm. That's nice of you to give them an excuse, but I don't think that's the case.

00:08:23.74

Lindsey Dunn

And

00:08:27.99

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:08:30.04

Lindsey Dunn

maybe it's their first AMA and they didn't realize what it was going to be like.

00:08:33.08

Steve Barnes

m Not that either.

00:08:33.85

Lindsey Dunn

I know...

00:08:34.58

Steve Barnes

They've done it before.

00:08:35.99

Lindsey Dunn

I will say, okay, I will say I did an AMA once and I set clear rules about what questions people could ask and what kind of questions I would answer.

00:08:39.00

Steve Barnes

Mm

00:08:47.06

Steve Barnes

hmm.

00:08:47.18

Lindsey Dunn

everybody ignored the the rules that I set up and asked me all kinds of questions I couldn't answer because it was a spoiler-free AMA about Cobra Kai because I had seen some of the episodes early.

00:08:55.00

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:08:58.58

Lindsey Dunn

So they asked me if I could do an AMA and I said, well, I can, but I cannot answer any i can't talk about any spoilers but then of course everybody was asking me who wins this fight who is that fighter or though they'd say well i like this character will i be happy and i'm like how am i supposed to know if you'll be happy or not

00:09:09.21

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:09:22.55

Steve Barnes

Well, yeah, that's, that's the, uh, the power of the Reddit AMA host. You know, you have all these powers and responsibilities.

00:09:30.33

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, well it was not ah it was not a Reddit AMA, it was a Discord AMA.

00:09:34.97

Steve Barnes

Even so.

00:09:36.08

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm, yeah. Well, yes, they did not answer your question.

00:09:42.26

Steve Barnes

Or the 600 other questions that that were presented to them.

00:09:42.42

Lindsey Dunn

um

00:09:46.01

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:09:47.74

Lindsey Dunn

But I think some of the some of the flaws that perhaps we were noticing would not be present if we had some other particular people join the team.

00:10:00.22

Steve Barnes

Yeah, perhaps.

00:10:00.38

Lindsey Dunn

Even, yeah.

00:10:00.98

Steve Barnes

I think, I think like, uh, it seemed like this was kind of geared towards like a younger audience where it seems like, um, Bo and Yonte shows are geared.

00:10:11.90

Steve Barnes

They don't seem like they're geared towards a younger audience at all. Where I see like clear evidence of like this show, it being, you know, geared towards younger viewers.

00:10:24.19

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm. I don't know if I get that sense. But.

00:10:29.43

Steve Barnes

I just, I think so yeah Just because just from the dialogue and just from the, the resolution and the acting and like moments, like the characters are running to the tree and then they stop and they say, look, it's the tree.

00:10:43.05

Steve Barnes

We're almost there. And then they start running some more.

00:10:45.59

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, some of that dialogue was a little weak.

00:10:45.77

Steve Barnes

Yeah. ah

00:10:50.85

Lindsey Dunn

I was going to bring that up. But let's look at some Easter eggs because it's Easter time.

00:10:57.75

Steve Barnes

Yeah, it's it's Easter time. That's right.

00:11:02.18

Lindsey Dunn

It's Easter time, four months early.

00:11:05.95

Steve Barnes

That's right. um I got a few. like I took my basket out. i thought it was going to be kind of hard finding some in this last episode, but um I managed to find a couple. Did you find any, Lindsey?

00:11:16.72

Lindsey Dunn

I found some. I think this was, I found more in this episode than have in some of the other previous episodes.

00:11:22.04

Steve Barnes

Oh. Okay.

00:11:24.34

Lindsey Dunn

But, you know, remember last episode I only had two.

00:11:27.22

Steve Barnes

That's right.

00:11:27.22

Lindsey Dunn

So it doesn't it's not going to be hard for me to say I got a few more.

00:11:31.74

Steve Barnes

Larry, will you go first then? What you got?

00:11:34.04

Lindsey Dunn

Well, i already kind of gave my first egg away, but it was the whole beep beep. Beep beep Margie.

00:11:39.90

Steve Barnes

Okay, a little dialogue. All right, that's cool.

00:11:42.18

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:11:43.16

Steve Barnes

um Okay, let's see. I'm not going to choose my first one here. a couple episodes, did we talk about the the liquor called Old Grandad by any chance?

00:11:53.42

Steve Barnes

Did we have a conversation about that?

00:11:54.74

Lindsey Dunn

We haven't talked about that, but I did notice the old granddad and I was trying to remember why that seemed familiar.

00:12:01.62

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he, um, he was, he being Dick Halloran was drinking that this episode. That's my Easter egg.

00:12:07.16

Lindsey Dunn

Mm hmm.

00:12:08.12

Steve Barnes

Um, he was also drinking it at the black spot and he was calling it pap. And that's something that a common nickname people call this liquor is pap. And I never knew I'm 53 years old. I'm not a drinker and this might be explained why, but I've never heard of this liquor old granddad, but it really explains something to me, which is this George Thorogood song called I drink alone.

00:12:33.43

Steve Barnes

And it's ah it's a cool song, but he talks about how he's a drunk and he drinks by himself. And in one of the lines, he says, the only one who will hang out with me is my old granddad. And he's talking about this liquor, of course, but I didn't know that.

00:12:47.51

Steve Barnes

i I thought he was talking about, oh, my granddad's a drunk too. And we hang out together. So I took it quite literally. I didn't know it was a liquor.

00:12:57.72

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, and it it I noticed that bottle. I didn't have a chance to watch the episode a second time, but I might have looked at that a little closer. But I can't remember if it's been mentioned in other books or if I have a friend that said they had drank some old granddad.

00:13:16.07

Lindsey Dunn

It's supposed to be some pretty powerful stuff that Dick Haller is drinking. But good one. um i My next one is going to be... ah Dick Halloran saying, how much trouble can a hotel be?

00:13:31.70

Steve Barnes

Okay. Yeah, that's right. um i think that was, that was a pretty big, I think that was almost like Christmas tree territory instead of an Easter egg territory. Cause that's like pretty, pretty big one.

00:13:43.21

Steve Barnes

I thought um a big, ah

00:13:44.79

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I mean, most of my most of my remaining eggs are pretty Captain Obvious.

00:13:49.78

Steve Barnes

Oh, no, no, no. I'm not trying to, I'm i'm not trying to down you.

00:13:51.16

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:13:52.32

Steve Barnes

That's definitely an Easter egg, but it's one that like the machetes, like, I think they like, they put like big lights on that one.

00:13:53.85

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:13:58.49

Steve Barnes

I think, ah um, my next one, I think is, I think it's, I think this is really fun.

00:13:59.32

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:14:04.51

Steve Barnes

Um, when they're up in the standpipe, they be in the three girls and they notice the fog for the first time. They're like doing some like spring cleaning or something.

00:14:13.11

Lindsey Dunn

who

00:14:13.24

Steve Barnes

And that box that Lily has is um, It's C it says CCM matched set on it. And it it caught my eye just because it was words. I looked it up. They're ice skates.

00:14:26.65

Steve Barnes

So like they would have come in handy later on in the episode. But for right now, she has a pair of ice skates up there with her.

00:14:35.03

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:14:37.88

Lindsey Dunn

um My next one is ah is also from the end of the episode. Mrs. Kirsch saying, you know what they say about Derry. No one who dies here really dies. And of course, that's repeated in this show. It's repeated in It Chapter 2.

00:14:55.58

Lindsey Dunn

So it's a recurring line that It's like a Leonardo DiCaprio moment from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. We all snap our fingers and point when she says that.

00:15:05.83

Steve Barnes

That's right. She said it. I think it's like three times now that she says the magic phrase three times.

00:15:09.36

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:15:11.93

Steve Barnes

Um, I guess my next one will be the, um this one was kind of funky when they were leaving town and like the, the big sign that said like, you know, you're now leaving Derry and it had the Paul Bunyan up there.

00:15:24.50

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:15:25.70

Steve Barnes

It also had one of those signposts on it that says who sponsored the billboard and it's the Legion of white decency. they They're the, they're the guys who put that billboard up.

00:15:35.96

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, man.

00:15:38.83

Steve Barnes

So they're still in town running wild.

00:15:41.91

Lindsey Dunn

They paid for it?

00:15:43.43

Steve Barnes

Yep. Oh yeah. You think they would hate, uh, hate Paul Bunyan cause everybody else does. Hmm.

00:15:49.75

Lindsey Dunn

Well, they might be the ones that like Paul Benyon, but give me so gimme we need some eggs to throw at that billboard. They sponsored it

00:16:00.47

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, my last Easter egg would be the Marsh family at the end.

00:16:08.34

Steve Barnes

The, the, the Marsh fan.

00:16:08.44

Lindsey Dunn

It's also the Marsh family, Beverly, her dad, old Alvin, Alvin and the Chipmunks, and Elfrida is I guess her mom's name, that that they show up, which I don't like this Easter egg, but it's an Easter egg.

00:16:11.51

Steve Barnes

Oh, Beverly and her dad there.

00:16:27.22

Steve Barnes

ah

00:16:28.57

Lindsey Dunn

Or maybe it's not an Easter egg. Maybe it's an Easter omelet at this point, you know, because it's another Pretty obvious one.

00:16:36.02

Steve Barnes

Yeah, my my last two are pretty obvious too. um I'll do a rapid fire.

00:16:38.65

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:16:40.38

Steve Barnes

We got Maturin again.

00:16:40.82

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:16:41.94

Steve Barnes

He's hanging out and he got um Pennywise floated and he's pretty worthless this whole series. He didn't do much of anything. And then my very last one would be, um, when Pennywise sheds all his, um, manifestations, like towards the end, we get another view of Lily's dad. And we also get to see the little funky demon baby again.

00:17:08.54

Lindsey Dunn

Right. The demon baby. And ah all the, I guess that was his other manifestations that he was shedding one after another.

00:17:17.40

Steve Barnes

Yeah. That, Yeah, I guess so. I don't know why he chose to do that, but you know, it was cool looking. So I'll, I'll i'll give it a pass.

00:17:26.90

Lindsey Dunn

You know, he does that in the the first movie when the kids kill, when they kill him.

00:17:35.51

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:17:36.02

Lindsey Dunn

He kind of goes through his greatest hits.

00:17:39.22

Steve Barnes

ah

00:17:40.60

Lindsey Dunn

And then the whoever the kid is, that that's their fear. They stick it with one of their weapons. But in this case, it was just one person really facing that creature down.

00:17:48.60

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:17:55.06

Lindsey Dunn

so

00:17:56.34

Steve Barnes

You know, sometimes I like when movies do that. I think what's, what's it centers that did that?

00:17:58.68

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:18:01.15

Steve Barnes

Like at the end of the movie, they kind of like went on this little like trip down memory lane. And that made me like the movie more because of the way they ended it with that little, like, Hey, remember when all this cool stuff happened in the beginning of the movie?

00:18:15.59

Steve Barnes

Well, remember it as you walk out. So ah yeah, that was, that's a good thing to do. Pennywise and Shaw, his little fears like, Hey, you remember when I did this Lily?

00:18:28.34

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, now I don't remember which character was standing there when he did it right at the end. But yeah, I guess it doesn't matter. So are we ready to go into some characters?

00:18:41.26

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:18:42.78

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:18:42.89

Steve Barnes

Let's burn this burn through these characters. You, you, um, yeah, you kind of brought you, we brought, we're going to bring back kind of everybody. We're going to be like the last time we're discussing all these people.

00:18:53.34

Steve Barnes

So going to give them all like a little pat on the back. Goodbye. Right.

00:18:56.75

Lindsey Dunn

Everybody who's still alive. Some people didn't make it.

00:18:59.06

Steve Barnes

Right. If you're dead, screw you.

00:18:59.63

Lindsey Dunn

Mr. Kirsch. Stan Kirsch.

00:19:01.30

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:19:02.06

Lindsey Dunn

He's gone.

00:19:02.90

Steve Barnes

Yeah. No more honorable mentions except for that one.

00:19:05.53

Lindsey Dunn

so

00:19:07.19

Steve Barnes

ah

00:19:08.25

Lindsey Dunn

um Okay. So we do have a few groups, but we're going to mainly talk about these guys as individuals so we can talk about their overall arc. So the first one i'm going to start with is Ingrid. Okay.

00:19:23.67

Steve Barnes

Yeah, she wasn't too much in this episode. We only saw her as a kid for like five seconds or so.

00:19:30.01

Lindsey Dunn

And she that was at was that was actually a ah memory that Dick Halloran was planting in his mind.

00:19:38.58

Steve Barnes

Oh, oh, okay. That's the, yeah, that's right.

00:19:41.16

Lindsey Dunn

It wasn't even real.

00:19:41.66

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:19:43.77

Lindsey Dunn

But that that was confusing for a minute because i one didn't understand that that was Dick Halloran. i I thought that they were trying to show us how his time travel works.

00:19:51.96

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:19:57.27

Lindsey Dunn

That maybe... that men when when Bob Gray woke up, like i thought i was I bought it for a minute. I was thinking, I was thinking maybe, oh, maybe Bob Gray wasn't dragged off by wolves.

00:20:06.20

Steve Barnes

Yeah, me too.

00:20:11.63

Lindsey Dunn

Maybe he just woke up, but he there was something off with him. And maybe Pennywise possesses him every now and again. i thought they were setting up our new time travel situation for us to put it into place. But no, that was Dick Halloran. Messing with Pennywise and slapping him around a little bit.

00:20:33.53

Lindsey Dunn

oh

00:20:34.55

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he did get get a punch in there. That was pretty nice. So that wasn't Ingrid then, but we did see Ingrid, I guess, like in the post credit kind of thing, like at the very, very end.

00:20:39.06

Lindsey Dunn

It was not.

00:20:45.88

Steve Barnes

um

00:20:46.42

Lindsey Dunn

Before the post credits, we do see her as she's a new patient at Jupiter Hill.

00:20:46.65

Steve Barnes

We see her.

00:20:52.28

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:20:52.85

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:20:53.72

Steve Barnes

So. What ah what time frame was that? Was that like was that happening in like after like the fog happened?

00:21:04.45

Lindsey Dunn

I think so. Yes. It's it. That's a now memory. Cause there were, it was kind of like after they wrapped up everything with Ronnie and the Hanlons are leaving town, not the Hanlons, um the Grogan's when the Grogan's have left town, then they cut to Jupiter Hill and we see Ingrid and she's upset and like, where have they taken my father?

00:21:12.95

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:21:16.38

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:21:30.30

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:21:30.34

Lindsey Dunn

Where have they taken him? And then they put the record on to calm her down.

00:21:32.07

Steve Barnes

Well, that's...

00:21:36.06

Steve Barnes

And then we cut to the older Ingrid.

00:21:37.85

Lindsey Dunn

Yes.

00:21:38.46

Steve Barnes

Okay, so that was 1962. We see like the Ingrid with the black hair as we know her like in our in this season. And I guess that's why it confused me because she was talking about the handkerchief and talking about where is my dad.

00:21:53.52

Steve Barnes

And I was like, what?

00:21:54.04

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:21:56.15

Steve Barnes

I guess she's just talking about that because of what she just experienced, which was she was in the dead lights of Pennywise in the last episode.

00:22:03.38

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:22:04.80

Steve Barnes

And then when he got whisked away, you know, we saw Leroy wake up from the dead lights. We saw the kids wake up from the dead lights. Therefore Ingrid woke up from the dead lights too, but now she's more confused than she was previously.

00:22:22.71

Lindsey Dunn

It feels like the dead lights could be almost like brain damage. In order to recuperate, you need somebody to kiss you passionately. There was no one there to kiss Ingrid.

00:22:32.89

Steve Barnes

Right. You need the power of friendship. That's right.

00:22:37.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, Hank, I guess Hank Grogan wasn't really all that concerned concerned or attached to Ingrid because he didn't really seem to wonder where she was.

00:22:50.33

Steve Barnes

Well, I don't think they had a real, you know, in-depth relationship. um And if they did, it was It was by design from Ingrid, so he probably feels used by her.

00:23:06.04

Lindsey Dunn

yeah I think it's still a a little unclear what her status is. Obviously, we see her, her she's confused. Then we see her in the time jump. She's painting.

00:23:17.30

Steve Barnes

But she's still in Juniper Hill, though.

00:23:19.30

Lindsey Dunn

She's still in Juniper Hill, right? So, i guess what I'm saying is, though, we know that eventually when Beverly comes to her old house, she sees a Mrs. Kirsch person there.

00:23:38.74

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:23:38.74

Lindsey Dunn

is is she seeing a real Mrs.

00:23:40.46

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:23:42.29

Lindsey Dunn

Kirsch or is that a Pennywise manifestation? Because if that was 1988, then that means in 27 years she'd be pretty old.

00:23:57.38

Lindsey Dunn

So, um yeah, i think I think we were, i was thinking they were going to be a little more on the nose with Because they've been so on the nose about some other things.

00:24:07.46

Lindsey Dunn

Like, why couldn't they have been a little more on the nose about Mrs. Kirsch? Because when you yeah when you see her in the movie, she's running around and tall and naked with her boobs swinging back and forth, you know, so.

00:24:12.82

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I guess so.

00:24:22.46

Lindsey Dunn

um That wasn't her.

00:24:23.54

Steve Barnes

That wasn't her though, I guess, after all. So like this, I mean, I guess they used that character to give us this cool character of Ingrid, but otherwise that was just some old lady that Pennywise was being.

00:24:35.49

Steve Barnes

So that remains the the same.

00:24:36.41

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:24:39.48

Lindsey Dunn

So maybe the real Mrs. Kirst just died in Juniper Hill.

00:24:44.86

Steve Barnes

that's That's my guess, yeah. Just of of old age while she was doing some painting.

00:24:50.24

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. That seems very sad.

00:24:53.82

Steve Barnes

I mean, I guess so. Maybe she wasn't like eating or anything, so there's a plus side to that.

00:24:58.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:25:02.55

Steve Barnes

And plus she's, you know...

00:25:06.29

Steve Barnes

she's She is brain damaged. I mean, it's pretty clear. So, I mean, yes, it is sad, but at the same time, I mean, she's she's in the place where she's getting care, and it seems like they're allowing her to have plants and paint and stuff, so she's doing the best she can.

00:25:23.55

Lindsey Dunn

It's a calm environment.

00:25:25.40

Steve Barnes

Yes. Well, until, you know, the lady down the hall decides to off herself.

00:25:33.46

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, should we move forward?

00:25:35.26

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:25:36.66

Lindsey Dunn

So we're now going to talk about our patty cakes slash our high schoolers.

00:25:44.76

Lindsey Dunn

i All I can say is bravo to it because, or Pettywise, because he hypnotized them all with his talent show. And then he, then he pied Piper them all on a grand march.

00:25:53.24

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:25:57.94

Lindsey Dunn

They, I mean, they were enthralled by his performance and He was led led them on town in a giant parade and everybody was enjoying the music and the show, apparently, because they followed behind.

00:26:11.26

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I got a bit to say about Pennywise and all this. We're going talk about him next, but I'm going to stick to the the high schoolers and patty cakes.

00:26:16.22

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:26:18.10

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:26:18.37

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:26:18.54

Steve Barnes

They, um, I guess like those flyers that the kids see, the girls see him on the standpipe because you know, like you said, he's got all the kids like floating out and then like they see all the flyers pasted on the standpipe. So I guess that was just a hallucination that he just whipped up those flyers.

00:26:38.07

Steve Barnes

as part of a hallucination because you couldn't print those out that quickly and then put them all in and like the most inconspicuous spot where like no one in town will see them except except for kids because that place is abandoned.

00:26:38.36

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:26:42.04

Lindsey Dunn

No.

00:26:49.72

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:26:51.02

Steve Barnes

Let's not forget. But um when it comes to the patty cakes, though, there's no redemption for these girls.

00:26:52.79

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:26:58.42

Steve Barnes

I had talked about in previous episodes how they were going to turn good at some point or somebody was saying how one of them deserves to die and all this stuff. But they're just straight up.

00:27:10.25

Steve Barnes

They're going to grow just to be shitty Derry adults. You know what I'm saying? They're like shitty kids. You're just going to be your typical Derry adults when they grow up. No redemption, no nothing.

00:27:22.07

Lindsey Dunn

I didn't did you have any clarity on the fact that when they went to the gym the three main patty cakes they're they're talking about who would make the ugliest baby which was I guess mildly interesting when you think about all the maternal horror we've had with babies um but the the third one that

00:27:28.99

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:27:40.47

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:27:43.22

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:27:43.70

Lindsey Dunn

was always chewing the gum.

00:27:43.82

Steve Barnes

Mush mouth.

00:27:45.98

Lindsey Dunn

they They just had her like all of a sudden...

00:27:52.15

Steve Barnes

ah tried I tried. mean, the, the subtitles said my parents, and then it didn't say anything after that. And there's no discernible syllables I could make out whatsoever.

00:28:02.63

Lindsey Dunn

I don't mean... don't mean what she said. just mean why did they throw that in? Because she wasn't talking like that before. Unless they just had her...

00:28:14.46

Lindsey Dunn

Has she not had any dialogue this whole show and I just didn't notice? I know she's mainly chewing her gum and and smiling and nodding, but I didn't think that she was talking like a mush mouth the whole show.

00:28:20.47

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:28:28.21

Lindsey Dunn

So I wondered why they threw that in unless it was just to make a joke like, oh, this is why we haven't given her any lines.

00:28:35.48

Steve Barnes

I mean, in my mind, like, like, yes, she hasn't had any lines. She just chews gum. She snaps the gum. She blows bubbles. At one point she chokes on her gum.

00:28:46.23

Steve Barnes

So this is the final episode.

00:28:46.42

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:28:48.73

Steve Barnes

And it's like, she finally gets a line.

00:28:49.33

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:28:51.45

Steve Barnes

What's she going to say? And that's what she says. So that, that was my perspective that was it was a joke.

00:28:54.75

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:28:58.12

Steve Barnes

And to me, it did pay off. It's like, You know, you're not you're not sure what's going to happen in this scene. They're just having like this banal conversation. And yeah, I think it's just played up for humor. And I think it works. It passes the humor test with me anyway.

00:29:13.75

Steve Barnes

I liked it.

00:29:14.84

Lindsey Dunn

yeah I thought it was a little silly though that Pennywise brought them all out there and then the spell is broken and they all just run home.

00:29:28.18

Steve Barnes

they They fell on that ice really hard. There were some twisted ankles, some busted heads. Did you notice that too?

00:29:36.89

Lindsey Dunn

I didn't.

00:29:37.94

Steve Barnes

Like they were, I mean, they were floating and then they just thumped to the ground and it looked like it hurt. So I was a little concerned that they, they had fallen from that.

00:29:48.42

Steve Barnes

Like they were about, cause the girls were trying to reach will and they were reaching up with their hands. So they're probably five feet tall.

00:29:54.17

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:29:55.27

Steve Barnes

They could probably reach up to six feet. So the kids are like seven, eight feet in the air. And then they just fall onto like the hard ice impact.

00:30:04.12

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:30:05.77

Steve Barnes

I'm worried.

00:30:05.75

Lindsey Dunn

It just seems like it just seems like it was, there should have been more carnage um from Pennywise doing this. it it's another I guess it's another one of those things that is supposed to be a grand epic thing that He had all these kids in his wake.

00:30:25.46

Lindsey Dunn

But then to not do anything with it, again, just felt a little weak sauce.

00:30:32.05

Steve Barnes

not going to disagree with you. um But I will move us forward to our next character, if that's okay.

00:30:37.27

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Okay. Yeah.

00:30:39.96

Steve Barnes

Our next character is Pennywise, played by Bill Skarsgård.

00:30:43.30

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:30:43.67

Steve Barnes

He deserves the crown, man. They did a great job, especially this episode.

00:30:48.29

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:30:49.50

Steve Barnes

In my notes, this is what I wrote down, is that Pennywise is excited that the pillar is broken. He wants to party. He grabs all the kids and plans to explore the world.

00:31:02.90

Steve Barnes

That's my simple explanation for you is like, he's really excited that he can finally break free and can leave Derry. So he gets his wagon and he has as a line of children and yeah, it's done for us. The audience. It's done for the the rule of cool, I guess you would say, because it looks cool to have a bunch of kids floating in a single line across a lake of ice.

00:31:25.66

Steve Barnes

But I mean, I got to think that's the only reason it could be happening is because Pennywise is like really amped up, really excited.

00:31:33.27

Lindsey Dunn

i like the visual effect of him grabbing the kids it's that's not the part that i'm complaining about it's that wouldn't he have maybe had a little snack before i don't know it just it just felt like none of those kids got hurt and yeah he wanted to leave daria he wanted to go on his tour

00:31:48.09

Steve Barnes

he,

00:31:53.94

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, is that is that what you're saying? and Just that he wanted to wait until he got out of Derry to do anything?

00:31:59.48

Steve Barnes

No, he's already full. He's ah he was already getting ready to, like, hibernate for his period because he's already he ate like 23 people at the black spot.

00:32:08.42

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:32:08.63

Steve Barnes

So, you know, he's full. He doesn't need to eat, but he does, you know, want to have plenty of food when he's on his little road trip. So he packed up some snacks.

00:32:16.24

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:32:17.78

Steve Barnes

That's that's what I think anyway.

00:32:21.14

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:22.71

Steve Barnes

um and I mean, I kind of agree. I think the whole concept is, um I mean, in a word, a little hokey. um Maybe it's something that old fashioned clowns are into. I don't know, like commandeering all the kids into a single room and hypnotizing them and taking them in a line with your clown wagon. I mean, yeah, it's absolutely silly.

00:32:44.92

Steve Barnes

um But, you know, we're in the realms of a Stephen King horror show. That's not a good excuse, I guess. It doesn't really explain anything away, but I mean, I'm just going to chalk it up to pure excitement.

00:32:59.70

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I just think something would have happened. Like, maybe he wouldn't have eaten somebody before, but once the kids dropped and they fell, they all just, what I mean, then they fell hard. They all just went home. That's it.

00:33:15.22

Lindsey Dunn

nobody tried Nobody stayed to help. They all just ran home. It just felt like there could have been more characters involved in this ending.

00:33:19.99

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:33:25.34

Steve Barnes

It would have been pandemonium. You're right.

00:33:26.81

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:33:26.94

Steve Barnes

If this was like a real life event, yeah, those kids would have been all hanging around, not knowing what to do, getting in the way. But, but Tanyal, luckily Tanyal was there to lead them to the North shore.

00:33:38.84

Steve Barnes

So that's all he had to do was say, go to the North shore. And then all the kids went there like obedient little children.

00:33:45.72

Lindsey Dunn

okay

00:33:45.94

Steve Barnes

No questions asked. So, i mean, that's kind of what we have to go through here. We have to go through no questions asked.

00:33:51.38

Lindsey Dunn

yeah that's true that's true um so like Pennywise himself yes this was this was a great performance for him in this in this final episode I thought he was horrific the thing in the gym the song in the gym

00:33:52.82

Steve Barnes

If you want to enjoy this, don't ask any questions.

00:34:11.93

Lindsey Dunn

Then him leading the kids out and his interactions with the characters on the ice as he's getting to the, trying to get off the boundary, get out of the boundary before they're able to get the shard in there.

00:34:31.65

Lindsey Dunn

It was a good performance. Bill Skarsgård was doing his thing. He had great clown makeup. He had that nice change into the bird.

00:34:40.67

Steve Barnes

Oh, his delivery is great with every line.

00:34:42.07

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. hu

00:34:43.13

Steve Barnes

Um, even though the lines are corny, like he, he delivers them really well. And the way he's like gleefully skipping when he like thinks that he's going to win and he skips past everyone with a little smile on his face. I mean, that's, that's pure gold. It's good stuff.

00:34:58.62

Lindsey Dunn

And he skips in slow motion sometimes.

00:34:59.04

Steve Barnes

It,

00:35:00.94

Lindsey Dunn

That's impressive, too.

00:35:03.36

Steve Barnes

He chooses whether he wants to go fast and be everywhere at once. And if he wants to go really slow and allow the others to win, has kind of like a 50, 50 for him.

00:35:16.87

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:35:18.23

Steve Barnes

And let's see the, I was going to say at the very beginning of the episode, um, is the I think, I think it's when we first get our first glance of Pennywise because we,

00:35:18.39

Lindsey Dunn

There was, oh go ahead.

00:35:31.54

Steve Barnes

this episode starts like inexplicably with the fog rolling in. Like we just had the black spot last episode. And like you were saying, um I'm, I'm going back and listening to our last episode where you were talking about how you were disappointed.

00:35:45.50

Steve Barnes

Like you were like, what they going to build us up to? What's going to be the the next big thing. And really the black spot should have been the big event this, this season, in my opinion, they could have skipped this whole thing.

00:35:57.21

Lindsey Dunn

So you're agreeing with me.

00:35:58.77

Steve Barnes

I'm agreeing with you.

00:35:59.99

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:36:00.60

Steve Barnes

But at the very beginning, this is what I'm trying to come back to. I kind of lost my train of thought while I was running my mouth there. The fog is rolling in and you see that girl at the hobby shop and she has that creepy smile while she's watching the fog roll in.

00:36:17.58

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:36:17.97

Steve Barnes

I'm pretty positive that was Pennywise or that was a reflection of Pennywise based on her teeth and her smile. Do you agree with me?

00:36:26.97

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Yeah.

00:36:28.89

Steve Barnes

Okay. So that's our first appearance of Pennywise in the episode. He lets the fog roll in.

00:36:35.35

Lindsey Dunn

The first appearance of the entity.

00:36:37.30

Steve Barnes

The entity it.

00:36:37.59

Lindsey Dunn

Right. when you say if for When you say first appearance of Pennywise, I'm thinking on the stage when he sang the song song with the to the kids.

00:36:38.86

Steve Barnes

Okay. Let's be clear. ah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:36:48.69

Lindsey Dunn

um Yeah, he explains, he stops to explain his plot.

00:36:55.29

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:36:55.48

Lindsey Dunn

typical Typical mastermind behavior.

00:36:58.55

Steve Barnes

He didn't have to do that.

00:36:58.71

Lindsey Dunn

he i know. He didn't have to do it.

00:37:00.82

Steve Barnes

ah

00:37:01.92

Lindsey Dunn

He did it because Mushietis needed to let us know what was going on. So he stopped to explain to Marge what was coming for whatever for whatever reason.

00:37:10.87

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:37:14.90

Lindsey Dunn

that was It was just because of the plot that he did that. But it seemed little silly.

00:37:20.41

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:37:22.00

Lindsey Dunn

And

00:37:24.54

Lindsey Dunn

and That part seems silly, but it did give us that cool moment where he's frozen and Dick Halloran then gets into his mind.

00:37:32.69

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah.

00:37:35.92

Lindsey Dunn

Because at first I was like, what is going on here? Is he is he showing Marge? He just told her his plan.

00:37:45.94

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:37:46.55

Lindsey Dunn

so is he freezing so that she could absorb the horror of this moment?

00:37:52.02

Steve Barnes

Exactly.

00:37:52.80

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:37:53.88

Steve Barnes

That's it.

00:37:53.88

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:37:54.82

Steve Barnes

It threw me through a loop to the first time.

00:37:56.81

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:37:56.98

Steve Barnes

and i And I still, I, when I finished that episode, the first time through, I still wasn't a hundred percent clear. Um, so I'm, I'm guessing that maybe some listeners maybe aren't clear about how that went down.

00:38:09.56

Steve Barnes

What exact, can I say like what exactly happened there?

00:38:12.86

Lindsey Dunn

Sure.

00:38:14.62

Steve Barnes

is that's the exact moment that Dick Halloran managed to get inside Pennywise's mind at that exact same moment. It was just lucky coincidence for Marge.

00:38:22.44

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:38:25.78

Steve Barnes

And so at that moment, when he gets in Dick's mind, you know, Dick and it Pennywise are like stuck in like this frozen dead light state where they're both like just basically catatonic.

00:38:40.63

Steve Barnes

Meanwhile, what's happening inside their head is that whole, you know, waking up as Bob Gray thing, getting slapped by the carny and eventually kicking Dick out of the ah out of the wagon.

00:38:52.44

Steve Barnes

And then when he kicks Dick out of the wagon and realizes that he's inside, um you know, Dick's fantasy, Dick's head, then that's when he finally wakes up. And when he wakes up, it's not Marge standing in front of him anymore. Now it's Shaw because some time has passed.

00:39:08.57

Steve Barnes

So yeah, that was really confusing. And it was, you know, that's all due to Dick Halloran being able to do this trick. Tricky Dick, just like ah Pennywise called him.

00:39:20.57

Steve Barnes

And I still don't quite understand how Dick Halloran is able to do this and how he's um able to like, you know manifest those exact same thoughts.

00:39:32.06

Steve Barnes

But we're talking about Pennywise here. we'll We'll get to that question in a moment.

00:39:34.17

Lindsey Dunn

Right. mean, think we saw something similar in Dr. Sleep. when um When those characters, when et Ewan McGregor and the little girl who's in that, they go into Rose's mind and she thinks that they're in Danny's mind.

00:39:53.91

Lindsey Dunn

or she thinks she's in the little girl's mind and she's actually in Danny's mind. And when you're in there, they can manipulate your thoughts, I guess, and make you think you're in a different place than you are.

00:40:06.81

Steve Barnes

Right, but he was in Pennywise's... He went into Pennywise's mind, though. And so somehow he got into Bob Gray's mind with Bob Gray's stuff, too, I guess, because...

00:40:11.80

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:40:16.92

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Because Bob Gray is still inside of him. Okay.

00:40:20.44

Steve Barnes

He just ate him. That's right. Well, he didn't just eat him, but he ate him. That's right. He told Ingrid that he's in his belly. So, okay, that makes sense then. So, like...

00:40:31.13

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he is kind of omniscient. um He can answer questions as soon as they're asked. Basically, we see that in this episode where somebody asks a question and then like he throws a flyer at them and then like that's the answer to their question.

00:40:48.12

Steve Barnes

So yeah, that I guess that answer is that that that satisfies my answer, that he's omniscient and he has Bob Gray's memories inside there. Because that was one of myque one of my queries that um I didn't quite understand. So I i can accept that one.

00:41:03.72

Steve Barnes

I'm okay with that one.

00:41:05.17

Lindsey Dunn

Right. it's ah It's a little bit of a reach, but it it worked.

00:41:07.70

Steve Barnes

Yes. But it works, though. yeah

00:41:10.21

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:41:10.55

Steve Barnes

We reached, we got it. We grasped it.

00:41:15.40

Lindsey Dunn

Alright, well I'm ready to move forward to our next little pair here.

00:41:19.80

Steve Barnes

Yeah, we'll so what' we Pennywise will come up again. Don't worry. I'm fine with that.

00:41:23.86

Lindsey Dunn

we We're never worried about Penny Flies. He's going to come up again. We'll be talking about him again.

00:41:28.47

Steve Barnes

Absolutely.

00:41:30.74

Lindsey Dunn

So we're going to move on to Rose and Tanyol.

00:41:35.65

Steve Barnes

All righty. Rose misses the Earth as a conductor. That's right. We all know that, Rose.

00:41:45.02

Steve Barnes

What I have a question for you, though, because this is something that um you might be able to figure out using context clues, but I was not.

00:41:46.94

Lindsey Dunn

OK.

00:41:53.24

Steve Barnes

She um she goes to help Dick. She she decides or shouldn't decide. She's part of the gang now. She's going to help Dick out and she gives them this mature and root.

00:42:08.21

Steve Barnes

And she gives him this warning. She's like, okay, you know, you might get sleepy, but remember don't. And then just like the girl with the bubble gum, like her words get jarbled and we don't actually know what she said. do you know what her warning was?

00:42:27.81

Lindsey Dunn

No.

00:42:29.30

Steve Barnes

Me neither.

00:42:34.39

Steve Barnes

Listeners, let us know if you know what Rose's warning was, because it doesn't seem like, you know, there was any rules where Dick went.

00:42:42.36

Lindsey Dunn

She made special tea. This is, it's funny because on the, since I was with my parents in the car, sometimes they like to listen to our podcasts and

00:42:45.56

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:42:50.97

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:42:54.94

Lindsey Dunn

And we did a podcast on The Amazing Mr. Blunden.

00:42:59.09

Steve Barnes

Oh, they listen to that one. Okay.

00:43:00.47

Lindsey Dunn

Yes, we listened to that one because they're familiar with that movie.

00:43:03.64

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:43:03.93

Lindsey Dunn

And we were talking, Nate kept talking about the specialty in that movie that they mix to time travel.

00:43:08.92

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:43:12.05

Lindsey Dunn

And we were making jokes about how sometimes they say you time traveled by drinking alcohol. Or special tea. And then, so here, she makes this special tea.

00:43:20.97

Steve Barnes

That's right.

00:43:23.21

Lindsey Dunn

That was almost going to be my joke at the beginning when I introduced you, Steve. That she made this special tea to calm his visions. Because we're where I thought you were going with it is the purpose of this tea was to calm the voices in his head.

00:43:40.44

Lindsey Dunn

And because he was, you know, all those dead people, the spirits were talking to him. And he was trying to get him... He needed a clear head.

00:43:51.42

Lindsey Dunn

So she gave him the tea, but... What exactly did it do?

00:44:01.18

Steve Barnes

I mean, it seemed like it closed the box again that Dick had because he stopped seeing the um the dead people that he didn't want to see.

00:44:14.71

Lindsey Dunn

Right. And she said one When one door opens, another one closes. So was the door that was opened, was it a connection to the shard?

00:44:29.94

Steve Barnes

That's the only thing i could ascertain, is that he was opening a door to be able to connect with the Shard, And that when he's able to do that, he closed the box lid onto like the spirits that he doesn't want to see.

00:44:45.43

Steve Barnes

they didn't explain that at all, but that's just the assumption that I made when she's, when she said, you know, the, the door and opening and closing thing.

00:44:48.33

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah,

00:44:55.17

Lindsey Dunn

and she says something about that it's a connection to evil, but not everything in there is evil. So that was that was interesting.

00:45:06.68

Steve Barnes

I think that was just foreshadowing, um, seeing rich and seeing the bareheaded, um, Indian woman again, because they're definitely not evil.

00:45:14.65

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm.

00:45:16.73

Steve Barnes

And I think that's what she was referring to. um there there's, I'm really confused about that aspect and we'll get to it when we get to it.

00:45:27.38

Steve Barnes

Um, But I believe that that the door is being opened and closed just to have to do with the dagger and with not not having to see those scary spirits anymore. And when he's not having to see those scary spirits anymore, then he can focus on his task better.

00:45:46.57

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:45:49.08

Lindsey Dunn

So Rose gets to play warrior a little bit. You know, she's with she's with the group.

00:45:53.46

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:45:56.60

Lindsey Dunn

She's not at a meeting.

00:45:59.28

Steve Barnes

She's clutching a gun the whole time.

00:45:59.75

Lindsey Dunn

She's not at the... Yeah.

00:46:00.92

Steve Barnes

like the Even the last time we see her, she's got an Uzi on her.

00:46:05.69

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I was really hoping that there was going to be some sort of interaction with her and General Shaw at the end.

00:46:14.33

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that...

00:46:14.94

Lindsey Dunn

But there wasn't. They were just both on the ice and he was focused on his work and she was focused on her nephew. But i would have thought that would be something they would have put in there.

00:46:27.26

Steve Barnes

Right. I mean, it seemed like it would make perfect sense to like wrap that up in some way because they were really harping on that for at least two episodes and it kind of went nowhere. So that was a little upsetting to me.

00:46:40.02

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. All the things that they did wrap up and really wanted to make the connections, they left that one sort of open. Maybe it's because they we're going to see these characters again in the past.

00:46:55.74

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. But it, that was, that was, yeah, that makes me sad. And Taniel, Taniel's arc makes me sad because i do feel like his character got used, ill used by the show.

00:47:07.29

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:47:12.58

Lindsey Dunn

Even with the,

00:47:14.30

Steve Barnes

Maybe.

00:47:15.14

Lindsey Dunn

Renewed focus they gave indigenous people in this show. it It still feels like he came in He was a on the hill looking through his goggles.

00:47:27.75

Lindsey Dunn

Then he gets tortured.

00:47:28.03

Steve Barnes

hmm. Yeah.

00:47:29.56

Lindsey Dunn

He goes back on the hill and through the goggles.

00:47:32.34

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:47:32.60

Lindsey Dunn

He gets called in and he gets shot. I mean, Why? why i mean, that's upsetting.

00:47:41.53

Steve Barnes

I mean, I agree. it is like the only thing i was trying to go back and think about what he really did to like, you know, um, you know, add to the gang to do his part. And the main thing he did basically was, you know, when Dick got into his mind and he learned where the pillars were.

00:47:59.64

Steve Barnes

And other than that, He was just kind of an observer, just like us the whole time, just kind of watching everything that was going on and asking the same questions we were.

00:48:09.88

Steve Barnes

Um, he looked great while he did it. And I was really ex I mean, you and I were both expecting a lot more from this guy. We were kind of theorizing and like before the first episode came out that he was going to be a big character and he was going to have, you know, a big part in this. And, um, you know, that kind of a disappointment.

00:48:29.02

Steve Barnes

He did manage to show up every episode. So that was, you know, that was kind of cool. We got to look, we got to see him every episode, but not that much.

00:48:37.59

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I mean, somebody was theorizing that Tanyal is in the, is in the it movies, the Muschietti movies that he, that his

00:48:46.93

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:48:47.29

Lindsey Dunn

not not his Not this actor, but when they have the scene where Mike Hanlon is showing older Bill the you know the shell and the the piece of the shard that's in the future, that he was

00:48:47.42

Steve Barnes

Guess not.

00:48:51.35

Steve Barnes

The character.

00:49:06.42

Lindsey Dunn

kind of and he his character was in that scene. But I guess not. He got shot. And i just i i was kind of thinking,

00:49:12.60

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:49:16.66

Lindsey Dunn

Why did you have to, you know, really we have two characters in this show. We have Tanya and Rose that represent our indigenous people. There were other people, but those were the two mains.

00:49:27.77

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:49:28.34

Lindsey Dunn

And of course, 50% of them had to die at the end. Mm-hmm.

00:49:34.65

Steve Barnes

I had really high hopes for this too, because at first you're like, Okay, we got the dagger and we got Daniel and we got Leroy, the man without fear.

00:49:44.91

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:49:46.42

Steve Barnes

And the two of them have the dagger and they're going to take the magic dagger to the magic tree. And they're going to like do the thing and it's going to be awesome. That's what I was thinking. Because like when they were like, yeah, we're teaming up. I'm like, hell yeah.

00:50:00.28

Steve Barnes

This is like the team up we've been waiting for. Only to be shot down by the military right right away.

00:50:07.16

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:50:07.61

Steve Barnes

So yeah, that was disappointing. They they built Tanyal up and then they shot him down.

00:50:13.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:50:14.30

Steve Barnes

hu

00:50:14.42

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, I thought pretty much I thought everybody was going to die except for, except for, except for Leroy and Will Hanlon, that everybody else, because we know that the cycle went terribly or it should have gone terribly, but it people complain about stranger things, how they don't want to kill off any of their characters.

00:50:19.86

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:50:24.73

Steve Barnes

Exactly.

00:50:39.07

Lindsey Dunn

So their cast just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

00:50:39.51

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:50:41.91

Lindsey Dunn

And here, almost the same thing. Like I'm not, I don't want our kid characters to die, but, They killed one kid, which was our precious rich.

00:50:52.60

Lindsey Dunn

And then they killed, they killed tan Daniel, but everybody else lived to see another day and and move on.

00:50:52.88

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:50:59.93

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, he was, we we kept, we kept saying, will Lily please give the shard to somebody else. And she finally gives it to Mr.

00:51:08.82

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:51:10.81

Lindsey Dunn

Hanlon. He's gives it to Daniel. So yeah, that should have, this should have been a good team.

00:51:16.50

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that that um that could have been the the team up of the year. um No dice there. I will say for Daniel and Rose, um the brakes on their van, i mean, exquisite.

00:51:23.96

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:51:31.94

Steve Barnes

Did you see like they're on ice and they're able to skid into like ah skid into a halt right in front of some kids before killing them. It was pretty amazing. um The.

00:51:44.54

Steve Barnes

Might as well ah head over to the end of this because Rose after Tanyul dies, she can no longer, she doesn't want to keep up with her farm and all the goats and stuff. She wants a simpler life.

00:51:53.43

Lindsey Dunn

hu

00:51:54.81

Steve Barnes

So she wants to hand her, um, her livelihood over to the Hanlon. She wants to give up the farm.

00:52:01.18

Lindsey Dunn

And is this where she hands off the store to Stephen King?

00:52:07.35

Steve Barnes

yeah Probably so. i guess it's going to happen behind the scenes.

00:52:12.36

Lindsey Dunn

wonder if she was leaving Derry or if she was just leaving the farm.

00:52:17.18

Steve Barnes

It seemed like she was leaving Derry to me.

00:52:20.22

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. m It may be. So maybe this is when she leaves the store to to Stephen King. I don't know. to See, it

00:52:29.27

Steve Barnes

Well, i mean, that's what happens. It's true.

00:52:31.13

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I mean, it it did seem i was glad that Rose is clearly heartbroken about Tangil's death. Maybe nobody else is, but she is and it's deep enough that she doesn't want to keep up this farm anymore.

00:52:49.14

Lindsey Dunn

I don't think when she said it's harder, I don't think she just meant physically harder that, yeah, that her heart was broken.

00:52:54.49

Steve Barnes

Well, yeah. But I mean, I think Daniel probably did do a lot of the heavy lifting out there, probably.

00:52:59.95

Lindsey Dunn

I'm sure he did.

00:53:00.11

Steve Barnes

You got those big old muscles?

00:53:01.54

Lindsey Dunn

I'm sure he did.

00:53:03.87

Steve Barnes

Come on.

00:53:04.47

Lindsey Dunn

yeah um

00:53:09.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, these these were two good characters, and i'm I'm sorry we will be losing them, but hopefully we'll have some more Shokopiwa people to look forward to in the in the future.

00:53:24.60

Steve Barnes

We shall see. who you got next?

00:53:27.48

Lindsey Dunn

Alright, Hank. Hank Grogan. He didn't do much this episode.

00:53:31.70

Steve Barnes

He didn't do much this season, Lindsey.

00:53:33.14

Lindsey Dunn

yes

00:53:34.39

Steve Barnes

I mean, he's a key character, but he himself didn't do a whole lot.

00:53:37.82

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. He was a victim. He was a victim of the system. He's getting arrested for a crime he didn't commit. And he was an impetus for the black spot incident.

00:53:47.01

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:53:51.74

Lindsey Dunn

But I mean, he was there also almost every episode in in some way or another. But this this episode, he mainly was wringing his hands and being like, is that my Ronnie?

00:54:03.22

Lindsey Dunn

Is my Ronnie there?

00:54:03.80

Steve Barnes

yeah He provided some some much needed dialogue when someone needed to say another line.

00:54:07.94

Lindsey Dunn

Oh.

00:54:09.80

Steve Barnes

He was there for them. I was thinking that um if I could be any character in this season, I would want to be Hank. Because first, I'm at the movie theater with my daughter having a great time watching movies.

00:54:24.63

Steve Barnes

And I'm, I mean, just face it, I'm banging Ingrid. Like we don't have a relationship. Like we're just kind of doing our thing. And then, you know, oh my God, I get arrested. That's terrible. But I'm in a cell by myself. I can read books and stuff.

00:54:40.47

Steve Barnes

And then i get, I'm in the black spot and I'm there like in the back room again, hidden by myself. I can read all day or whatever. And then the fire, oh no, but I escaped. I'm fine.

00:54:52.54

Steve Barnes

so And then he gets his daughter back and then they leave and they go to Canada. I mean, perfect life.

00:54:59.49

Lindsey Dunn

He was at the jail by himself, but he also was offered cigarettes by his jailer.

00:55:05.62

Steve Barnes

That's true. I mean, yeah, he got smokes. It's even better.

00:55:10.52

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, it wasn't exactly a hard time there in in the in the prison.

00:55:15.29

Steve Barnes

No, I mean, they didn't show him getting harassed or really bullied a whole lot either. um i mean, he got heckled when he got on the bus. Oh, the bus thing must have been pretty scary.

00:55:23.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:55:25.01

Steve Barnes

So I take that back.

00:55:25.46

Lindsey Dunn

yeah he it But he never had to go to Shawshank.

00:55:29.30

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:55:29.88

Lindsey Dunn

Because that would be bad. that The life in Shawshank was not great, especially if your accusation was child murder.

00:55:32.26

Steve Barnes

Well, that would.

00:55:40.89

Steve Barnes

ah He should be thanking Pennywise for commandeering that bus then, because otherwise he'd probably still be in Shawshank to this day. But he, you know, the bus was attacked.

00:55:50.71

Lindsey Dunn

oh

00:55:53.35

Steve Barnes

So he got out of there.

00:55:54.63

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, one thing I will say is Hank Why are you leaving your mama behind?

00:56:03.00

Steve Barnes

She was she came to she was in the car.

00:56:05.65

Lindsey Dunn

I didn't see that. I just saw her handing him boxes. I thought she was just helping him load the car.

00:56:11.29

Steve Barnes

No, they all, they all went together. The whole Grogan family went together.

00:56:14.71

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Okay. Okay.

00:56:16.60

Steve Barnes

And, um, even they, and they had another like little movie, little shout out there. They talked about Natalie Wood and like some, uh, that could be another Easter egg. They talked about the, uh, the magazines that Hank had some movie magazines.

00:56:30.14

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I didn't understand that. She says, i think Natalie Wood should be in the back of the car where Ronnie is. of i didn't understand what that meant.

00:56:40.02

Steve Barnes

So that Ronnie could read those magazines while she's on the road. I think that's because I didn't understand it either.

00:56:43.61

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:56:46.02

Steve Barnes

And that's the only thing I could ascertain is they were putting the magazines in the trunk and they were saying that they should have put them in the back seat so Ronnie could read them.

00:56:46.65

Lindsey Dunn

but ah

00:56:55.64

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:56:56.34

Steve Barnes

I guess I'm stretching here. I don't know.

00:56:58.72

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:57:01.30

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Anything more we want to say about Hank?

00:57:04.90

Steve Barnes

Nah, we like them. Have a good one, Hank.

00:57:08.70

Lindsey Dunn

Enjoy your life. did Did they say where they were going?

00:57:11.70

Steve Barnes

Yeah, Canada. they're They're crossing the border.

00:57:14.42

Lindsey Dunn

Canada. Okay. All right. We're going to move on to General Shaw. Francis.

00:57:21.56

Steve Barnes

um Salute. Salute. Here's some taps now. He's gone, buddy. ah i was i was trying to think about this.

00:57:34.58

Steve Barnes

What if the military had never showed up to Derry to do this whole operation? Pennywise would just have, you know, he would have done the movie theater thing for sure. Or he would have killed Matty.

00:57:49.02

Steve Barnes

um he probably would have done the movie theater thing. And that might have been it. You know, he might have killed a couple more kids and then gone to sleep. So I think the military getting involved really um mucked things up a whole lot. We can blame Shaw for that.

00:58:06.63

Lindsey Dunn

I guess we can. I don't know. This is another character I feel sad about. he'd ended up being a really nasty character. And it makes me question, why did you show us this little boy at the circus with his

00:58:25.37

Steve Barnes

I know.

00:58:26.01

Lindsey Dunn

yeah you You sold us on him. you made us think that he could be redeemed. And it was kind of sad to I will say that that lore, though, that they set up,

00:58:38.55

Lindsey Dunn

really made that sadness because when he sees the clown an adult he's clearly excited the same way Ingrid was you know he's like here's the thing from my childhood and yeah it's

00:58:46.33

Steve Barnes

Right. Yes.

00:58:53.97

Steve Barnes

That's right.

00:58:58.71

Steve Barnes

And he, he loves Pennyway. He took his hat off out of respect.

00:59:04.92

Lindsey Dunn

sure did he sure did he took He took his hat off. He gave him he gave him a salute almost.

00:59:12.12

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I mean, the guy who played Shaw, I think did a great job with it. Um, I mean, I guess it's not too terribly hard to play a military guy, but there is some nuance that he threw in here, especially when he faced Pennywise in this episode.

00:59:25.66

Steve Barnes

I thought he ah did a good job of being ah a scared military guy, but,

00:59:25.88

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:59:32.25

Steve Barnes

You're right because i was so invested in Rose and Shaw and I was so sure that like, or I still am actually that, that will still happen when when we go back to 1908 in the show.

00:59:37.12

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:59:39.39

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:59:45.75

Steve Barnes

Um, probably for the, the, the Easter egg hunt, you know, the kitchen, iron works. Um, we will see Shaw and we will see Rose and If they're smart, they'll play it off like the young kid Shaw has a little bit of shiftiness about him, too. And you're not really too sure if you can trust what he's saying.

01:00:07.48

Steve Barnes

And I think that, you know, that that potentially, you know, has some meat to that. So they could they could play this character that way instead of just playing like a cute little boy that's going to fall in love with Rose. It could give him a lot of foreshadowing.

01:00:21.56

Steve Barnes

But it it is, you know, it it is ah a bit of a waste of potential that we could have seen. You know, we could have seen Shaw like, I'm going to give up the military and come with you, Rose. You know?

01:00:32.89

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, that was that was their ah was there opportunity there to maybe make it work.

01:00:32.95

Steve Barnes

but

01:00:39.97

Lindsey Dunn

But I thought it was interesting that he seems to think he's going to get this jail get get out of jail free card because he's going to let the entity go free.

01:00:51.19

Lindsey Dunn

but yeah he says he says you're free to go you're free as if as if pennywise is controlled at all by the military i think that was a trigger for pennywise like you give me my freedom

01:00:51.73

Steve Barnes

Oh, that was silly. oh my God.

01:01:10.23

Lindsey Dunn

um but

01:01:11.61

Steve Barnes

I hope so. i I mean, I was trying to think of a good, a good parallel. And I guess it'd be like, Lindsey, you're, you're free to go do a podcast with other people. If you want to, you're free to have other guests. Okay. I'm going to grant you that you're welcome.

01:01:26.23

Steve Barnes

ah

01:01:29.24

Lindsey Dunn

um but yeah he they have this kind of moment and then Pennywise says i never forget a smell my old friend my old friend yeah

01:01:40.76

Steve Barnes

And he likes that smell.

01:01:44.15

Steve Barnes

Takes a big old bite.

01:01:47.96

Lindsey Dunn

And rose wasn't there to save the day. That was the question I had. Will Rose be there to save the day again? She wasn't because you killed her nephew.

01:01:56.22

Steve Barnes

Mm-mm.

01:01:56.92

Lindsey Dunn

I've

01:01:58.65

Steve Barnes

I don't think Rose is going to be saving any days. Like, i mean, i don't, I don't have a whole lot.

01:02:03.96

Lindsey Dunn

already

01:02:05.90

Steve Barnes

Well, yeah, we already talked about Rose and I think like the future, the future holds for her.

01:02:08.45

Lindsey Dunn

talked about Rose. Yeah.

01:02:11.34

Steve Barnes

She's, she's going to do some crafts and she's going to watch some TV and the end.

01:02:17.57

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I just, I don't understand the military's plan here, which, I mean, we've already said it's going to be a bad plan, but they showed up on the ice somehow,

01:02:30.52

Steve Barnes

h

01:02:31.90

Lindsey Dunn

and they just decided, we're just going to shoot.

01:02:36.86

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Randomly.

01:02:38.78

Lindsey Dunn

yeah We're just going to shoot people. Yeah.

01:02:42.17

Steve Barnes

They decided like at this moment, let's start shooting people like indiscriminately. But then once we stopped doing this, let's never do that ever again. Kind of didn't make sense. Like these are the exact same people you were shooting at before. So why are you not shooting at them now?

01:02:58.33

Steve Barnes

I don't understand.

01:02:59.16

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess in you could say, you know, Leagra Hanlon, Major Hanlon went AWOL. Tanyol left them in the in the sewers and ran off.

01:03:13.21

Lindsey Dunn

So both of them were kind of on the bad boy list already.

01:03:18.69

Steve Barnes

Oh, that's a good point. Okay. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Both of them. Okay. Well, even so, even after they shoot, um, Daniel to the neck, Leroy in the leg, they're both down.

01:03:25.72

Lindsey Dunn

hu

01:03:32.25

Steve Barnes

They still continue shooting at the children and at the van, which just leads to the whole thing.

01:03:37.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:03:38.84

Steve Barnes

Like, you know, I think one of the kids says it best. Like I thought they were supposed to be the good guys.

01:03:45.94

Lindsey Dunn

You're wrong, kids. You're wrong.

01:03:47.54

Steve Barnes

Yep.

01:03:49.79

Lindsey Dunn

Alright, well, we can move on to our kids here. We've got Rich, Marge, Lily, Ronnie, and Will.

01:04:00.98

Steve Barnes

got a lot of group hugs this episode, Lindsey. Lots. I saw at least five group hugs.

01:04:08.95

Lindsey Dunn

Not as many as last week, though, I feel like, but maybe.

01:04:13.56

Steve Barnes

Well, they're they're keeping it. They're keeping up the status quo of group hugs, I think. um But yeah, a lot of that. um I want to start with Rich because he got resurrected.

01:04:23.51

Lindsey Dunn

and Okay.

01:04:27.16

Steve Barnes

um he came back to lend a hand with the with the dagger and a finger. Remember, he gave Pennywise the finger, which everybody loves that.

01:04:32.80

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:04:35.78

Steve Barnes

I mean, that that might be like the screenshot of the episode of him of him running past Pennywise and giving him the finger. But this this is an appropriate time time to talk about this.

01:04:49.91

Steve Barnes

Rich is brought back. um i I think it's undisputable that he's brought back by by Dick Halloran. Cause I don't see how else he and the other spirit could have arrived.

01:05:07.77

Steve Barnes

Do you have an explanation as to why rich and this other spirit arrived?

01:05:13.36

Lindsey Dunn

Well,

01:05:16.34

Lindsey Dunn

the so the chief the chief is supposed to go where the shard goes.

01:05:23.45

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:05:23.48

Lindsey Dunn

the place see They mention

01:05:23.77

Steve Barnes

That, that, that makes sense. Yes.

01:05:27.09

Lindsey Dunn

mention the indigenous people go where they are buried. And I think this tree is the home base of this shard.

01:05:43.74

Lindsey Dunn

and and it was removed from it. So the shard is supposed to well, I might be going to, that it's not right, is it?

01:05:49.51

Steve Barnes

That's not...

01:05:51.49

Lindsey Dunn

Because they said that it wants to go home.

01:05:51.96

Steve Barnes

No. Yeah, the tree is not where it's supposed to be. But I think you're right about... i think you're onto something there. That makes more sense...

01:05:59.29

Lindsey Dunn

But I don't think, yeah, I don't think that Dick summoned the the person, but it's interesting that he asked the the bear chief,

01:06:11.35

Lindsey Dunn

To help him find the kids. And so. Rich is apparently. tagging ah Tagging around. With the bear chief.

01:06:19.45

Steve Barnes

Oh.

01:06:20.66

Lindsey Dunn

Because they were with.

01:06:22.10

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:06:22.59

Lindsey Dunn

they were with The kids in the fire. And she helped Dick Halloran find them. But I don't think he summoned them. Because he's looking surprised. He notices. Rose notices the chief.

01:06:34.74

Lindsey Dunn

And then Dick Halloran sees the chief. And she notices that he sees too. And he sees Rich there. But it...

01:06:43.09

Steve Barnes

I don't think she sees them because she says, what are you looking at? And he says a motherfucking miracle.

01:06:49.05

Lindsey Dunn

Well, she hears the music. And she turns her head. and then he turns his head. So I think she saw something.

01:07:01.27

Lindsey Dunn

She didn't see Rich, though.

01:07:04.38

Steve Barnes

Okay, well, let's. I mean, I kind of like your explanation of, you know, he asked the bear head to lead him to the children.

01:07:15.35

Steve Barnes

That makes sense that that Rich would be in that situation then.

01:07:16.92

Lindsey Dunn

oh

01:07:20.06

Steve Barnes

It still doesn't really satisfy me 100%. I still think it's kind of... pulled out of Andy's ass here, Andy Muschietti's ass.

01:07:27.58

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:07:28.60

Steve Barnes

But I mean, that makes more sense than anything else I could come up with. And the show didn't give us any sort of explanation whatsoever. So I think that that you deserve credit for that.

01:07:37.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:07:40.12

Lindsey Dunn

Well, i I will just say, i didn't, this is one of the things I did not like.

01:07:45.91

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:07:46.42

Lindsey Dunn

As much as I like Rich, I don't like this whole temporary Rich resurrection plot thread that seems, it seemed very cheap, not in line with the show, not in line with Stephen King's universe.

01:07:48.27

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:07:54.26

Steve Barnes

Right. Me neither.

01:07:59.94

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:08:05.08

Lindsey Dunn

Name one time he's had a spirit come back from the dead to help his help people. I don't think that's,

01:08:12.28

Steve Barnes

All that happens all the time in Stephen King's book, Mother Abigail. it happens all the time. but I it could have been explained way better and I'm not satisfied with it.

01:08:22.88

Steve Barnes

So I tend to agree with you that it's that it is kind of cheesy.

01:08:26.76

Lindsey Dunn

It just feels like a different genre than what we're looking for here.

01:08:33.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I yeah, I'm not I'm not.

01:08:36.98

Lindsey Dunn

ah sort of in a way, it sort of gets goes with what they did because remember that Stan Uris the loser who's dead at the end.

01:08:48.59

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

01:08:50.26

Lindsey Dunn

and they kind of bring him in, even with the adults, because They try to make it seem like, oh, he's not a coward. He's actually really brave.

01:09:03.74

Lindsey Dunn

He knew he would hurt us, so he killed himself as an act of heroism.

01:09:10.84

Lindsey Dunn

Do you remember that? and it it I just don't see that in the books.

01:09:17.86

Lindsey Dunn

it's It's more that Stan is so scared he can't make it. He can't do it.

01:09:24.38

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's right.

01:09:24.50

Lindsey Dunn

And that's... That's a horrific thing, and it's it's cool, and it's a good story time it's a good story device.

01:09:33.37

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:09:33.88

Lindsey Dunn

And this whole, oh, he was actually a hero, it seems like it's trying to do something really sentimental.

01:09:42.68

Steve Barnes

They call reverse engineering or not reverse engineering, but like, yeah, it's like they're trying to.

01:09:42.84

Lindsey Dunn

And yeah.

01:09:48.50

Steve Barnes

there's a phrase for this and I can't think of what it is. Um, when you try to go back and make some, make something what it's not.

01:09:51.13

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

01:09:55.05

Steve Barnes

Um, yeah, I agree with that. And most things that happen in this episode that I don't like, I can, um, I can see where the, where're where it makes sense within the story, but this still doesn't really make a whole lot of sense because

01:09:57.39

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:10:12.34

Steve Barnes

Dick seeing, Rich kind of makes sense, but then him seeing Rich at the funeral does not because he was supposed to have the lid on that box and he's supposed to not being able to see any more dead people at all.

01:10:28.67

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:10:29.85

Steve Barnes

So it, I'm on one hand, I'm glad Rich is back because it's fun to have a character return, especially as flamboyantly as he returned this episode.

01:10:42.23

Steve Barnes

But um I'm just kind of not buying it. It just doesn't pass the test. And I think your explanation makes more sense than anything else.

01:10:48.06

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:10:50.38

Steve Barnes

And even your explanation doesn't quite, quite cover it.

01:10:56.85

Steve Barnes

And, um, since we're still talking about rich, you know, we see his funeral,

01:10:57.11

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

01:11:01.82

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:11:02.58

Steve Barnes

And I'm thinking about Rich's parents during this funeral. First off, this strange girl stands up and who barely knows Rich and makes this really nice speech. And they're probably wondering like, who is this girl and where are her parents? We haven't seen her parents this entire season.

01:11:18.90

Steve Barnes

And then their interaction with Dick Halloran afterwards as well. And I'm just thinking of myself, if I was at my child's funeral and then some stranger came up to me and was like, Oh, they're standing right behind you. Yep. There they got their hand on your shoulder.

01:11:34.80

Steve Barnes

They're going to follow you forever. I'd be like, okay, crazy person. I'm in the middle of morning here. ahs i don't need you to convince me of this. And they, they just accepted it so willingly and so wholesomely that ah it kind of, ah again, didn't pass the smell test with me.

01:11:56.50

Lindsey Dunn

I did like the funeral. i I thought it was sweet. um Whether or not... I didn't think about whether the parents how the parents would have felt at the funeral. But I did like the part that he was there. And i didn't that didn't bother me for some reason.

01:12:13.46

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, Rich showing like showing up to help with the... Bury the thing. Which seemed... That whole thing seemed really odd to me too. like That it would be this hard...

01:12:24.84

Lindsey Dunn

if you I know they wanted a conflict, they wanted a challenge that, yes, it's not going to be easy for you to defeat the entity to put this shard in its resting place, but there could have been something other than for about 15 minutes, kids holding a shard and trying to put it in the ground.

01:12:28.71

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:12:50.62

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:12:51.74

Lindsey Dunn

That the whole thing was just very silly. And having magnetic radioactive waves coming off of it.

01:12:59.16

Steve Barnes

And where the shard ended it up, it was in plain view of anybody who's like fishing at the lake. You know what I mean? It's just there by the tree roots.

01:13:08.43

Lindsey Dunn

it's not even normally this foggy. They're just going to have a big triangle sticking out of the ground.

01:13:15.22

Steve Barnes

I guess, but...

01:13:16.52

Lindsey Dunn

Somebody's going to have to take Tanyl's spot to watch you know watch with the goggles now, the binoculars.

01:13:23.31

Steve Barnes

Well, had his buddy, the cousin. So I guess his cousin is going to have to step up and grow his hair out and ah start being the peeper.

01:13:25.91

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Okay.

01:13:30.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was sweet. I think the reason why I liked the rich beat at the end with his parents is because of Dick Halloran and it sort of ties in with his arc, which we'll talk about later. We're going to talk about Dick Halloran later, but um he's had some big growth in this, in this series.

01:13:55.70

Lindsey Dunn

Should we move on to Marge?

01:13:58.23

Steve Barnes

Yeah, oh absolutely. she She cussed a lot this episode. She said a lot of bad words.

01:14:04.57

Lindsey Dunn

She said a lot of bad words. I only really remember the one. But, yeah. Okay.

01:14:08.76

Steve Barnes

Oh, she was saying shit and fuck all over the place. Like at least five times. Like her actress, I bet whoever plays her was probably like so ecstatic to say all these bad words and to be part of this.

01:14:20.76

Steve Barnes

um But yes, she I like her thing because you you know I have to like this. When Ronnie was like giving her crap because she only has one eye and she's like, I can drive with one eye.

01:14:31.33

Steve Barnes

Yes, I'm living proof of this.

01:14:31.64

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:14:33.64

Steve Barnes

Yes, you can drive with one eye. It's totally fine. ah so I'm totally on Marge's side.

01:14:37.89

Lindsey Dunn

was difficult though. um Yeah. but I think out of all of the kids, Marge has the best, you know, performance out of everybody in this episode.

01:14:52.25

Steve Barnes

Oh, hands down, yeah.

01:14:53.21

Lindsey Dunn

um She's delightfully rebellious at this point. But um the dialogue for all of these kids is so bad this episode that it feels... It just feels like nobody gave it a second edit.

01:15:12.73

Lindsey Dunn

Because I was thinking, how many times do you have to say the word guys? they would They kept doing...

01:15:19.99

Steve Barnes

I don't even know if they yeah, i don't even know if they said guys back in, back in 1962, if girls called themselves guys.

01:15:21.80

Lindsey Dunn

They kept...

01:15:26.45

Steve Barnes

i don't think they did.

01:15:26.62

Lindsey Dunn

you There was... the the the three girls, when the three girls are, you know, scheming, one of them goes, guys, and then another one says, guys?

01:15:39.74

Lindsey Dunn

They just kept saying it, yeah, and that did make me feel like it was a young show, and even the way at the end when Marge and Lily are are talking about explaining the time travel, and she says, he told me something, well, what if

01:15:39.81

Steve Barnes

Guys over here, look over here.

01:15:46.33

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:15:53.88

Steve Barnes

Mm hmm.

01:15:58.17

Lindsey Dunn

de

01:15:58.68

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:15:58.81

Lindsey Dunn

comes back to do our parents it's just it's felt so paid by numbers it was was really bad and i feel like these kids deserve better and i've seen them perform better so this i know they put the emphasis for this episode on special effects but why why did you have to make the script like this for this especially for these kids at the end it was i almost don't have besides

01:16:04.41

Steve Barnes

Very much so. Yep.

01:16:25.40

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, besides Marge, I almost don't have much to say about any of these kids this episode because it's all just action and moving from point A to point B.

01:16:36.60

Steve Barnes

Well, Marge does have some cool action. She gets yoinked by Pennywise, which that's a neat little effect. thought that was a fun one when there he does a little fake like cartoon arm and yoinks her and actually makes a little yoink noise.

01:16:51.66

Steve Barnes

I like that.

01:16:51.64

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I said besides Marge. I said besides Marge.

01:16:55.26

Steve Barnes

Oh, I know you did.

01:16:55.48

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:16:55.90

Steve Barnes

I know you did. But I'm saying that's like my one of my notes about Marge is that like she gets that thing going on.

01:16:57.18

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:17:01.91

Steve Barnes

And my biggest note about Marge, too, is like, I think that's how you opened the episode.

01:17:01.90

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:17:06.58

Steve Barnes

You were talking about how I'm Mr. I told you so. And the way that they gave us the confirmation that she is Richie Tozier's mom.

01:17:16.73

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:17:17.85

Steve Barnes

was once again very on the screen, paint by numbers, let me pull out a diagram and show you exactly what I mean kind of thing.

01:17:27.54

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:17:27.74

Steve Barnes

um It wasn't a really fun reveal. It was a, I don't know, I guess so i guess it was a really clinical reveal, I suppose.

01:17:36.15

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, it it made it crystal clear for people for ah for the people on Facebook that keep saying, oh, she's this person's parent, this person's parent, you know.

01:17:41.56

Steve Barnes

I mean, there's no doubt in anyone's minds.

01:17:51.16

Lindsey Dunn

Well, they've confirmed it. They said the last name and everything and even had a picture of Finn Wolf

01:17:56.28

Steve Barnes

I mean, couldn't make it any more clear than they did. i mean, is they should have just shown her like as an adult giving birth and then like, I don't know.

01:18:08.44

Steve Barnes

um

01:18:08.73

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:18:09.40

Steve Barnes

We talked about Rich's funeral. There were probably a lot of funerals in Derry this week, right? Like after the black spot.

01:18:15.52

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, I was confused that the funeral was here at the end because rich was... And maybe I'm just forgetting how everything timed out, but I would have thought they already had the funeral because just felt like, well, wait a second. How much, how long has it been since the black spot incident?

01:18:39.52

Lindsey Dunn

Cause I thought the funeral had already happened.

01:18:40.02

Steve Barnes

I think it was yesterday. i think i think the black spot was yesterday in the story.

01:18:42.02

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

01:18:44.76

Steve Barnes

And then the next day, this fog rolls in.

01:18:45.27

Lindsey Dunn

who

01:18:48.60

Lindsey Dunn

Right. And Marge is obviously in charge of the entire funeral. Right. She's the main speaker. There's no there's no pastor. It's just March.

01:18:58.93

Steve Barnes

And she has his drumsticks and she's the one who lays his drumsticks on his casket too. So like, yeah, she's the funeral director.

01:19:03.60

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. But I did like her speech. I thought it was sweet. She talks about the friends who make a home in your heart.

01:19:14.90

Lindsey Dunn

I thought that was a nice line.

01:19:18.23

Steve Barnes

um the I like the line better where she said that there's no good friends or bad friends. There's just friends. And that one stuck with me more. I like that line.

01:19:28.38

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, but well, I think there was there was something about the idea that I've only known him a month, but that doesn't matter.

01:19:34.37

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:19:37.62

Lindsey Dunn

it's not It's not the length of time, it's the quality. she doesn't say that, but I did... I thought it was nice because it kind of gives me this feeling that He's going to be in her heart permanently, which explains why she would name a son after after him.

01:20:02.82

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:20:03.35

Lindsey Dunn

But then also, it almost makes her like a Mary figure because it's like Pennywise is the Archangel Gabriel telling her you're going to have a son named Richie.

01:20:17.11

Lindsey Dunn

so

01:20:18.58

Steve Barnes

Okay, all right, I can see this.

01:20:18.90

Lindsey Dunn

you would you would think You would think she might want to be defiant and say, I'm not going to name him Richie.

01:20:24.98

Steve Barnes

Exactly.

01:20:25.02

Lindsey Dunn

I'm not going name him something else to foil your pan.

01:20:28.73

Steve Barnes

Yeah, going to steer clear of anyone named Tozier the rest of my life.

01:20:29.84

Lindsey Dunn

Exactly.

01:20:32.13

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:20:35.03

Lindsey Dunn

Well, it's probably one of those fake relationship things where you don't know the who the actual the person hid their identity and she lives her whole life going, I'm not going to date anyone with last name of Tozer.

01:20:43.95

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:20:48.36

Lindsey Dunn

But he's been hiding the last name for whatever reason.

01:20:52.44

Steve Barnes

um My name's not Dozier. It's Tozier. Oh, no.

01:20:58.93

Lindsey Dunn

um But yeah, I thought i thought Marge was gay gave real rebel rebel girl energy here at the end. so

01:21:09.07

Steve Barnes

Oh, we got plane closure. Finally.

01:21:12.25

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, we had we had a plane. it it didn't happen like the way that could have I could have stood to that to be a little more on the nose.

01:21:24.41

Steve Barnes

But it made it to Main Street.

01:21:24.41

Lindsey Dunn

but Yeah. we

01:21:25.65

Steve Barnes

You know, we got we got we at least got a little closure out of it We got a smile.

01:21:32.35

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Anything we want to say about Lily? Lily, she finally lets go of the dagger.

01:21:40.89

Steve Barnes

but Well, she's forced to. It's like the whole magic phrase of like the lifeboat that breaks the spell. ah

01:21:49.91

Lindsey Dunn

right Yeah, so it it is good.

01:21:51.75

Steve Barnes

Twas friendship that thawed the monster's heart. ah

01:22:02.17

Lindsey Dunn

She kind of figures that out. But yeah, I mean, i was getting tired of the other thing about the die dagger because it falls on the ground and i think it's Marge or Ronnie's going to pick it up and she's like, don't touch it.

01:22:16.47

Steve Barnes

Well, i mean, we, we get story out of it. We, we learn why, because it's getting further and further away from where it's supposed to be. So it's getting mad and stuff. So they kind of explained a little bit, I guess.

01:22:28.97

Steve Barnes

I'm happy that she didn't end up in Juniper Hill getting a lobotomy, which is, which was everybody's guess for that's where everybody thought that's where Lily was going to end up.

01:22:39.61

Steve Barnes

Or they thought Lily was going to be Beverly's mom.

01:22:42.30

Lindsey Dunn

Beverly's mom, yeah.

01:22:43.90

Steve Barnes

Neither one. She's just going to grow up and be a nice Lily Bainbridge. And that's that. I don't know if she's going to stay in Derry or not because we don't have any Bainbridge children in the 80s or 90s or whatever it is.

01:22:58.68

Steve Barnes

um But, you know, we know she lives and she doesn't end up in Juniper Hill. And that's good enough for me.

01:23:04.95

Lindsey Dunn

Well, a speculation that I'm wondering is if we're going to see in the next cycle, the 1935, which would be the previous cycle, the 1935, if we're going to see either her mom or her dad or both.

01:23:21.30

Lindsey Dunn

Because, yeah.

01:23:22.46

Steve Barnes

Yeah, we will.

01:23:24.41

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, it might be one or the other, but we've met Mrs.

01:23:24.73

Steve Barnes

ah

01:23:28.94

Lindsey Dunn

Bainbridge. We've only met Mr. Bainbridge through his pickle.

01:23:35.35

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:23:35.39

Lindsey Dunn

this pickle self. um But.

01:23:39.64

Steve Barnes

But I mean, Pennywise and Marge pretty much confirmed that that that he's going to go back in time and try to like off their parents to stop this whole cycle from happening.

01:23:49.34

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:23:51.26

Steve Barnes

So

01:23:51.51

Lindsey Dunn

Well, the the line is, what if it comes after our parents? So it it seems like pretty on the nose that.

01:23:59.86

Steve Barnes

yes, absolutely.

01:24:01.65

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:24:03.74

Steve Barnes

And, um, I liked when all three of the girls were, uh, before they got into the milk truck, they tried to triple up on that bike.

01:24:13.82

Lindsey Dunn

did that make you think of the Did that make you think of Dark with and Martha, but it wasn't as smooth?

01:24:14.01

Steve Barnes

That was great.

01:24:22.30

Steve Barnes

Well, no, it made me think of me being a kid and me doing the exact same thing with my friends. How many people can, can we get on this bike and how far can we go with like five guys on one bike?

01:24:33.72

Steve Barnes

It's fun. i mean, it's, ah it was neat and I'm glad that I'm, I'm glad they were realistic enough to like not let that happen. That was one thing that was realistic in this show was that. Three girls on a bike is not going to work.

01:24:46.17

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, but is it realistic that that Marge could be able to drive a stick shift but just by watching?

01:24:56.92

Steve Barnes

a a little A little doubtful there. There's other things that I think are more doubtful. That one's a little doubtful. Yes. When they were following that trail of blood, they were like walking directly in the blood, which I thought was not smart.

01:25:12.41

Lindsey Dunn

Well, you brought up the dagger. I wanted to ask you something.

01:25:15.45

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:25:17.18

Lindsey Dunn

So you're saying, we're saying that this spot that they put the dagger is not the original spot. So where was the original spot for this shard?

01:25:25.73

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:25:30.33

Steve Barnes

Just on the north side of the just to the north on the north side of the river. Like when she shows the map, she shows the spot where the tree is and then directly across the river is from where the da the original original dagger was taken.

01:25:48.28

Steve Barnes

Not the original dagger, where the a pillar was taken.

01:25:51.67

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. ah I think that's a little confusing to me because I would think there would be one pillar in each spot.

01:26:01.18

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:26:01.24

Lindsey Dunn

But she showed it as a circle.

01:26:03.45

Steve Barnes

h

01:26:04.18

Lindsey Dunn

So this piece of shard was in the sewer. How did it get there?

01:26:15.51

Steve Barnes

This piece of shard was in the sewer. They du they dug it out of the ground.

01:26:17.53

Lindsey Dunn

ah one that The one that they're the one that they're that Lily has been holding. She found it in the sewer. Remember?

01:26:24.76

Steve Barnes

After Taniel dropped it. Yeah.

01:26:27.64

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. But that it was in Rose's safe. So why did they take it out of

01:26:30.87

Steve Barnes

Yes, that's right.

01:26:34.84

Steve Barnes

Oh, because the the pillar is gone now. They destroyed the pillar that was in the ground. The military dug up the pillar. So it's gone. So they said, Rose is like, well, we can use the dagger as a pillar.

01:26:49.40

Steve Barnes

The dagger will replace the pillar that the military destroyed.

01:26:53.30

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Okay.

01:26:54.17

Steve Barnes

they They technically should have put it back in the exact spot that that was, but they had to put it back at the tree because that's where Pennywise was heading.

01:27:03.67

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Because I wouldn't think it would be in a circle. I would think it would be in like a star shape. But okay.

01:27:11.60

Steve Barnes

Nope, big old circle. Circle gets a square.

01:27:15.83

Lindsey Dunn

um And I think i think it's Marge. Marge and Ronnie both they kind of help Lily to Wake up from her from her stupor here.

01:27:26.30

Steve Barnes

Yeah, two-handed effort.

01:27:26.94

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah. I don't have too much to say about Ronnie, but I did notice that then she had her two lollipops again.

01:27:36.15

Steve Barnes

Yes, I noticed that too. And she should have been doing that the whole show, in my opinion, but she only did it during her first episode and then her last episode.

01:27:38.10

Lindsey Dunn

and

01:27:45.05

Steve Barnes

But it was enough to make me happy.

01:27:45.66

Lindsey Dunn

hard It's hard to talk with lollipops in your mouth, Steve.

01:27:49.46

Steve Barnes

ah Yeah, that one ah that one patty cake can attest to that.

01:27:55.90

Steve Barnes

But what did what did I have to say about Ronnie? she um She said the lifeboat phrase, which lifted the spell, so that was nice. um Oh, yeah. She's going to leave Derry.

01:28:09.25

Steve Barnes

In the book It, I told you that Veronica um veronica Grogan dies in the book It.

01:28:15.35

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:28:16.38

Steve Barnes

But in our story here, she doesn't die. She's heading to Canada with her dad. And um Will's going to write her. to hopefully keep her, you know, remembering stuff about Derry.

01:28:30.20

Steve Barnes

So maybe, you know, maybe they'll maintain their relationship and we'll see more of, I don't know if we'll see more of that later because they're going backwards in time now, but maybe in the future they'll keep up and they'll eventually sire a young Mike who knows.

01:28:46.30

Lindsey Dunn

They could, but we won't we won't ever see that because, you know, in the next time period, we've already seen the next time period, and by then, Hanlon is dead.

01:29:01.85

Steve Barnes

Yep.

01:29:03.86

Lindsey Dunn

so Yeah, i don't I don't know if we're to get any more of this particular Hamlin.

01:29:13.92

Steve Barnes

Nah.

01:29:14.85

Lindsey Dunn

Nah.

01:29:17.69

Lindsey Dunn

um Yeah, and I mean, Will, again, he doesn't really get a lot to do this episode either because he's deadlighted for half of it

01:29:24.94

Steve Barnes

That's right. But he's like the line leader though. He's like the first kid in line of that whole little parade.

01:29:31.06

Lindsey Dunn

But he was... yeah he... was gonna go golem himself when he got a hold of that shard. He was ready to go off.

01:29:40.37

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:29:41.56

Lindsey Dunn

And then took all four of them. to He's like, turn me around.

01:29:47.96

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's right.

01:29:48.06

Lindsey Dunn

That Yeah.

01:29:48.96

Steve Barnes

he, it like, it got to him really quick. And um I guess the other thing I could think of is that because he was like the furthest point away and the dagger knew that it was about to be buried somewhere different. So it was mad.

01:30:00.50

Steve Barnes

And so it got extreme on will, I suppose.

01:30:00.56

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:30:04.19

Lindsey Dunn

Well, he's also probably pretty weak too, from his ordeal of being hypnotized and brought all that way and it's cold and they were out there with,

01:30:08.95

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:30:15.45

Steve Barnes

Dad, I'm scared. I'm scared, Dad. ah

01:30:19.54

Lindsey Dunn

they were out there with not appropriate clothes for how cold it was.

01:30:23.35

Steve Barnes

None of them. That's right. And it was only Dick Halloran that was talking about how cold it was. Nobody else was except for him.

01:30:31.00

Lindsey Dunn

yeah Yeah, I mean, i've already said this, but I think it was silly that it was that hard to to bury that shard. They could have put another challenge in there besides, I don't know, force?

01:30:46.94

Lindsey Dunn

Invisible force?

01:30:47.26

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I'm not going to disagree with you.

01:30:49.34

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:30:50.54

Steve Barnes

I mean, it's it's just supposed to be, it's just supposed to show us the power of this dagger.

01:30:50.90

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:30:54.98

Steve Barnes

And you know that if ah if it was Tanyol and Leroy, they'd have no problem with that sucker, I bet.

01:30:55.66

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:31:02.46

Lindsey Dunn

Well, okay. So anything else want to say about our kids before we...

01:31:07.19

Steve Barnes

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. They got the guests from smooching happened in this episode. Like Ronnie did the thing where Will was in the middle of a sentence and then she just like attacked, kissed him like this, like interrupting surprise kiss.

01:31:24.78

Steve Barnes

That's not, that's not really a good way to kiss people. Is it Lindsey?

01:31:29.43

Lindsey Dunn

Sometimes when they're distracted, that way They can't stop you.

01:31:34.05

Steve Barnes

Mid-sentence.

01:31:36.86

Lindsey Dunn

like there was no There was no time to to think about should we do this or not. And i thought it i thought I was going to hear Charlotte going, oh, you think you groan now.

01:31:50.34

Lindsey Dunn

That's what she said last time when they were to get a kiss on the street. And she's like, Will Hamlin.

01:31:54.65

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah.

01:31:57.14

Lindsey Dunn

And then at end of the garden, she's like, you think you groan now? Mm-hmm.

01:32:01.30

Steve Barnes

who

01:32:04.86

Lindsey Dunn

But yes, there was there was smooching at the at the end.

01:32:11.25

Steve Barnes

Yep. And we'll didn't have to do anything at all. Like Ronnie did all the work for him. So once again, you know,

01:32:18.01

Lindsey Dunn

I feel like that's usually how it happens.

01:32:23.19

Lindsey Dunn

They say the girl decides. That's what they say.

01:32:27.90

Steve Barnes

I mean, that makes sense to me. It makes sense to Ronnie and Will also. Because Will was not going to make any sort of move whatsoever. He was just going to ask her if she, you know, you wanted to read a science book or something.

01:32:39.64

Lindsey Dunn

Do you want to write letters? but I forget what the conversation was even about that they were having.

01:32:44.89

Steve Barnes

Oh, the stink bomb. They were talking about the stink bomb and having a laugh.

01:32:47.48

Lindsey Dunn

oh yeah. Yeah,

01:32:52.44

Lindsey Dunn

I forgot about that. I forgot about that stink bomb. Detention.

01:32:56.30

Steve Barnes

that's how they That's how they became friends. They're reminiscent about their first day together.

01:33:00.44

Lindsey Dunn

Detention.

01:33:01.94

Steve Barnes

Yep.

01:33:05.18

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, well we were talking about Charlotte We can move on to Charlotte Charlotte and Leroy here together

01:33:10.36

Steve Barnes

Yeah,

01:33:13.08

Steve Barnes

I think that Charlotte gave the most convincing performance of the season, perhaps when she started freaking out on Leroy, when he came in the house and she finds out Will's gone. I was really convinced by that performance, actually.

01:33:28.70

Lindsey Dunn

You In convinced in what way

01:33:32.25

Steve Barnes

That she was really pissed and that she was angry and that she was, you know she convinced me like ah it

01:33:41.34

Steve Barnes

Compared to some of the other reactions that we see in this episode, i think that this is like the most convincing performance.

01:33:48.41

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah Well she she was pretty upset That Leroy Didn't do his job

01:33:57.91

Lindsey Dunn

He was supposed to make sure That Will stayed at home

01:33:58.10

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I mean,

01:34:02.54

Steve Barnes

that's right. And.

01:34:06.39

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he had a pretty pretty floppy excuse there because he was like, it's sleeping. It's all good now. But yeah, he should have done it a little bit better than that. Or at least should have been like making sure Will was with somebody all the time as well. That would have been helpful.

01:34:24.86

Lindsey Dunn

But every, the adults, adults all go on the rescue mission to find the kids. And and in some ways, i I question this. It's nice to see adults on the one, yeah.

01:34:37.78

Lindsey Dunn

On the one hand, it's nice to see adults involved in these shows. that deal with horror because a lot of times a big part of horror invite involving teenagers or youth is that the parents are never around they're leaving the kids vulnerable and so it's nice to have that but it's also a little strange that we have adults in this Stephen King universe to the extent that that we do what we have in this season but everybody's involved here we have

01:34:52.82

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:35:13.52

Lindsey Dunn

Hank Grogan, we've got, you know, Rose and Tanya, we got Dick Halloran, we got the Tanlins, and they're all they're all in a van. And... but But for what it was, i liked especially... i mean, Charlotte was out there on the ice holding the gun, too.

01:35:33.75

Lindsey Dunn

But Leroy really, again, laid it down here. He put his neck on the line. For his kids. And he has that nice. I think he had a really nice speech. With his son. Where he tells him You don't have to be like me.

01:35:50.49

Lindsey Dunn

I want. you know You should be yourself. And I love you.

01:35:53.75

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:35:54.56

Lindsey Dunn

Just the way you are. And that was a good moment. For Will. Because I feel like. He thinks he's been a disappointment to his dad. Because he's into science.

01:36:04.15

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah.

01:36:06.93

Lindsey Dunn

Instead of sports. He's into his brain. Instead of physical prowess. And Leroy affirms his choice to to to do that.

01:36:19.16

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Leroy is supposed to be the man without fear too. And I saw like a lot of fear in him this episode. It seemed like he was scared a lot and there was a lot of emotion coming off of him.

01:36:30.26

Steve Barnes

And I'm not sure if we ever really got the real payoff of like the man without fear, like he was played up to be the missing, um, part of his brain that processes fear.

01:36:44.22

Steve Barnes

Um, Yes, i was I was disappointed in that respect with Leroy. i was hoping that would come into play a little bit more. um I do think that like his relationship with Charlotte and Will has been a little topsy-turvy.

01:37:01.34

Steve Barnes

And like I agree with you about the moment that he had with Will and the sincerity of it. And then he's had other moments with Will that are just as sincere and just as nice.

01:37:17.02

Steve Barnes

And then he has these other moments where he's just not himself at all. Um, he's very much a, um, when you, when I hear somebody say a man without fear, I'm thinking somebody with, with cold emotions and that can handle anything. And I don't see that in this guy.

01:37:36.34

Steve Barnes

um I'm seeing an emotional guy. um seeing a loving guy. I'm seeing an angry guy sometimes. And I think that fear ties in with all of those.

01:37:47.61

Steve Barnes

Um, so yeah, he is a couple of times that he does, um usurp authority, especially in this episode, he leads this little overthrow here.

01:38:01.37

Steve Barnes

He ends up with an honorable discharge though, not a dishonorable discharge, but an honorable discharge.

01:38:09.01

Lindsey Dunn

Right. And I wonder who was doing the discharging. Was it Fuller?

01:38:13.05

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:38:13.57

Lindsey Dunn

Because, yeah, because Shaw is no longer in the picture.

01:38:14.10

Steve Barnes

Good question. Yeah.

01:38:18.94

Lindsey Dunn

So that kind of leaves Fuller as the only witness still left.

01:38:24.34

Steve Barnes

That's right. ah Yeah, he's still out there. Nothing happened to him. He was definitely um a survivor. And I was wondering, they explained to us what happened with Leroy with his honorable discharge, but they don't explain to us um about Dick Halloran.

01:38:41.27

Steve Barnes

They just basically say, yeah I got a job at a hotel, whoho but they don't say like, you know, how we got out of the military or whether it was honorable, dishonorable, whether he quit, whether he was kicked out.

01:38:54.01

Steve Barnes

um

01:38:54.19

Lindsey Dunn

Didn't he say something about I have to keep quiet?

01:39:01.27

Lindsey Dunn

Didn't Dick Hotton say something about that? Yeah.

01:39:05.14

Steve Barnes

Not that I recall.

01:39:05.46

Lindsey Dunn

yeah I mean, they gotta get rid of both of these guys. They can because they know too much at this point.

01:39:09.46

Steve Barnes

ah

01:39:12.76

Lindsey Dunn

Gotta cut them loose.

01:39:13.21

Steve Barnes

Oh, they be in the military, not they, the show writers. Let's admit like the show writers. We got to write them off here real quick here.

01:39:19.45

Lindsey Dunn

No, no, no. I mean, the military's these These two guys, they know too much and they've seen they've seen too much.

01:39:26.46

Steve Barnes

He must have an honorable discharge too, because i remember Shaw was telling Fuller, because if Fuller is like in charge now, the last thing he heard from Shaw was like, we don't care about Hanlon, but Dick Halloran, you know, that guy is important.

01:39:28.54

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:39:40.28

Steve Barnes

So i can I can only assume that he got honorable as well.

01:39:40.95

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:39:45.21

Lindsey Dunn

Going back to your statements about the man without fear...

01:39:49.88

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:39:50.30

Lindsey Dunn

I feel like it's been established, though, that his lack of fear is more of an instinct thing about his personal safety, that when it comes to his personal safety and taking risks, he's able to do that without fear.

01:40:09.62

Lindsey Dunn

But, i mean, I'm not a brain a brain doctor, um but I wonder if if I looked

01:40:10.65

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

01:40:17.88

Lindsey Dunn

if I had time to do Google research, I would find that there are different parts of the brain that are used when it comes to your personal safety versus your empathy gene for caring about somebody who's in your care.

01:40:36.47

Lindsey Dunn

um Because he was able to think pretty quickly when he, when he was facing the gun down at in his room.

01:40:47.35

Lindsey Dunn

You know, that's when he didn't feel fear. And also when he's with Dick Halloran flying over where the shards are or the pillars are and Dick Halloran's about to jump off the plane, he like goes to get him.

01:41:06.10

Steve Barnes

Okay. Yeah,

01:41:06.90

Lindsey Dunn

But it's it' is when it's impacting Will that he cares. So maybe maybe that's a different section of the brain that wasn't damaged.

01:41:20.20

Steve Barnes

I can appreciate your response, but I i just think that that he didn't do enough as a character to really um warrant that whole plot point.

01:41:32.50

Steve Barnes

plot point It was kind of unnecessary. They could have just said, Hey, this guy, Leroy Hanlon, he's pretty tough and left and left it at that.

01:41:40.92

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:41:43.00

Steve Barnes

They didn't have to like do this whole brain injury thing.

01:41:43.83

Lindsey Dunn

right

01:41:47.26

Lindsey Dunn

Um, yeah, they didn't, maybe they didn't follow through with it as well as they could. But we didn't talk about the moment yet where he goes into Dick Halloran's room. thought that was a good scene too.

01:41:57.85

Steve Barnes

That was on my mind next. Yes.

01:41:59.54

Lindsey Dunn

Yes. So what do you want to say about it?

01:42:03.06

Steve Barnes

Um,

01:42:07.16

Steve Barnes

actually what I want to say pertains more to Dick than Leroy.

01:42:10.71

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:42:10.94

Steve Barnes

Um, Leroy did the right thing there. Of course he saved Dick's life. He say the, the way he saved Dick's life though was by reminding him about will and about, um, you know, will safety.

01:42:25.46

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:42:29.98

Steve Barnes

And that's when Dick Halloran decides not to kill himself. So, you know, Leroy is the messenger of that. So he deserves all the credit for that. But I think that if he had failed to mention Will's name, then he might've witnessed, you know, Dick killing himself in front of him. And I think that he was wise to bring up Will because it shows the selflessness of this individual.

01:42:56.82

Lindsey Dunn

Right. And he also that took an instinct like he knew what he needed to say. But he was Dick Halloran actually pointed again, pointed the weapon at him a couple of which goes back to man without fear.

01:43:11.00

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:43:14.55

Lindsey Dunn

So there there is something there they could have.

01:43:16.06

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah. Okay.

01:43:17.75

Lindsey Dunn

and They could have they could have followed it through maybe better than they they did.

01:43:18.84

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:43:23.99

Lindsey Dunn

But I think not everybody would be willing to go into a room that like that. um

01:43:30.97

Steve Barnes

Sure.

01:43:31.26

Lindsey Dunn

The other, so he tells, yeah, he mentions Will's name, but he also says, I'll pull the trigger if you want after. He's kind of saying, help me and then I can help you.

01:43:44.95

Lindsey Dunn

I'll do anything in my power to help you. So if you want to die afterwards, I'll be happy to oblige.

01:43:51.86

Steve Barnes

I forgot about that part. That's pretty wild. Hopefully he was lying when he said that.

01:43:58.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I mean, like a good hostage negotiator, he's like, what does this guy want?

01:44:01.89

Steve Barnes

Right. There you go.

01:44:03.86

Lindsey Dunn

You know, what can I what can i grant him? But yeah, he he brought up Will, and that was that was his opportunity to stop. But it was he was quick on his feet, and he thought of something, and he also went in there without fear for his own safety, because cause Dick Calleran could have shot him.

01:44:21.78

Steve Barnes

I guess that's true. Okay.

01:44:25.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah, absolutely.

01:44:29.72

Lindsey Dunn

But I also just think his, you know, the way he interacted on the ice was good too because he sort of puts himself on the line. Like he tells his son, it's up to you. i want you to take this and go to bury it.

01:44:51.83

Lindsey Dunn

So he that's a moment of growth for him because he's been so much like, no, you stay here, you stay here, and don't don't put yourself...

01:45:01.34

Steve Barnes

Oh, okay.

01:45:03.00

Lindsey Dunn

So he had to sort of... He knew that he was shot, and also the military were going to come after him, but they might, even though they were the kids were holding a glow-in-the-dark dagger, for some reason they didn't see that.

01:45:04.73

Steve Barnes

Sure.

01:45:15.45

Steve Barnes

Yep.

01:45:19.51

Steve Barnes

Good point.

01:45:20.89

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, he allows his son to kind of do that part where he is... standing back and he's he's been shot. Daniel's been shot.

01:45:34.65

Lindsey Dunn

So he kind of knows the kids maybe have a better chance. And then he's sitting there also trying to shoot Pennywise and seeing that this creature regenerate over and over again.

01:45:40.06

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:45:51.45

Steve Barnes

He doesn't try. He succeeds. Yeah.

01:45:52.98

Lindsey Dunn

Well, he he shoots, but but it's he's not six he doesn't succeed in that it takes the creature down. He keeps regrowing body parts.

01:46:00.28

Steve Barnes

No, but he definitely helped. if it was If it wasn't for him shooting him, then Pennywise would have made it to the kids before they got the dagger in there.

01:46:08.12

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:46:10.17

Steve Barnes

So he, you know, he's a good shot too, gotta say.

01:46:13.43

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. He's a good shot and he stays, that's him staying cool under pressure. Yeah.

01:46:19.70

Steve Barnes

right, you're proving this point for him. Congratulations, you did it. ah

01:46:27.22

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:46:27.74

Steve Barnes

and And the last thing i' got to say about Leroy and Charlotte is, um well, here, try to try to um try to logic this one away, Lindsey. Leroy and Charlotte. Charlotte Hanlon is the one who makes the final decision. Like you said, it's women who make the decision. Charlotte was like, we should stay in Derry.

01:46:49.59

Steve Barnes

How? Can you make any sense of that?

01:46:50.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. No.

01:46:53.24

Steve Barnes

Because I i cannot.

01:46:55.22

Lindsey Dunn

No. i The only thing I can think of is plot.

01:46:59.67

Steve Barnes

Yeah, we need we need a sheep farm. Here we go.

01:47:03.96

Lindsey Dunn

But it it seems, that seems silly because they could have just, you know, Shaw, when he was a kid, he moved away from town and then he came back to Derry. So just because Major Hanlon becomes a sheep farmer, Doesn't mean he has to be a sheep farmer right this second.

01:47:20.69

Lindsey Dunn

He could have left town and then, you know, has to come back for whatever reason in the future. But yeah, I don't, did it does not, it's not reasonable at all that this couple who, who care about their son would allow their kid to grow up in Derry unless they just don't understand.

01:47:32.56

Steve Barnes

Mm-mm.

01:47:45.50

Lindsey Dunn

but I mean, Rose is there. So she understands that there's a cycle. I guess they're just thinking in 27 years, ah does she tell them that?

01:47:58.87

Lindsey Dunn

I think she said, oh oh my gosh.

01:47:59.32

Steve Barnes

Yeah, she says like 27 years of peace. That's right.

01:48:03.86

Lindsey Dunn

Especially the way Charlotte is. you would this it does not make sense at all that they would stay be a sheep farmer.

01:48:06.89

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:48:10.49

Steve Barnes

None. None.

01:48:14.69

Lindsey Dunn

Nope. no

01:48:17.91

Steve Barnes

Yep, that's the last point I had about them. That's very, and and and you didn't, you weren't able to bring any logic to it, so it remains illogical that they stay in Derry.

01:48:28.92

Lindsey Dunn

not just yeah Not just illogical, but it's another thing where machetes are kind of pounding the wrong mallet with the handle.

01:48:40.11

Lindsey Dunn

They're pounding the wrong thing with with the hammer.

01:48:47.77

Lindsey Dunn

It's like...

01:48:48.12

Steve Barnes

I don't, I don't follow your words, but I do know it exactly what you mean.

01:48:51.86

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, you it's like we have to fit these pieces in a in a way...

01:48:52.06

Steve Barnes

ah There you go.

01:48:56.44

Lindsey Dunn

that makes it really obvious what's going to happen next so that any idiot can figure it out.

01:49:03.70

Steve Barnes

Yep. Especially with Marge's little, little soliloquy at the end there. Yes.

01:49:11.00

Lindsey Dunn

And our last character here is Dick Halloran.

01:49:15.06

Steve Barnes

The man. Yeah. Um, The man who lived. he Now he and not only lived, not only succeeded his mission here.

01:49:20.89

Lindsey Dunn

The boy who lives.

01:49:29.78

Steve Barnes

Well, i mean, did he succeed his mission? I mean, he kind of, but he was able to like do the mind lock thing with Pennywise and he was able to slap Pennywise And we were able to like see visions of the birth of Pennywise as well.

01:49:50.04

Steve Barnes

So, I mean, I think this is pretty significant. I'm sure like, you know how we have, we have a mutual friend, Freddie, who likes to take scenes from the show dark. We like, and put music to the scenes.

01:50:02.01

Steve Barnes

And if somebody is a big fan of welcome to Derry or Pennywise, they have so much material to use. Um, just with this episode alone. But I, I believe that that,

01:50:14.04

Steve Barnes

um I don't know, like that that whole scene with Pennywise being born and that in that wagon was was wonderful. And it was it was Dick's creation.

01:50:24.57

Steve Barnes

Dick did that. so That's the guy we're talking about now. and That's why I'm bringing it up. um

01:50:29.34

Lindsey Dunn

ah but what So what are you what do you what are you talking about exactly?

01:50:34.23

Steve Barnes

The scene with

01:50:35.45

Lindsey Dunn

You said he was born in the care in the wagon. What do you mean by that?

01:50:40.37

Steve Barnes

Pennywise. Because he's talking about his his um he's talking about his life. He's talking about his death. And he's like, is my birth and my death the same thing? And we're supposed to be seeing like the birth of Pennywise. That's supposed to be like the moment that um he embodies the the the spirit of Pennywise in that wagon. It's like when bob gray like wake Bob Gray dies and then Pennywise wakes up in his body.

01:51:13.07

Steve Barnes

That's not really what happens, but we see visuals of that. We see like Pennywise being born for the first time.

01:51:24.38

Lindsey Dunn

I am not following this at all.

01:51:29.21

Steve Barnes

It's just a strange trip I'm on right now, Lindsey. You got to take the same drugs I'm taking to be able to follow this one.

01:51:34.99

Lindsey Dunn

I don't... I do not see this at all. Yeah. I think that what we're seeing in the wagon is is a memory that Dick Halloran manufactures.

01:51:42.86

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:51:48.06

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:51:49.86

Lindsey Dunn

Not not even a real memory and because...

01:51:50.55

Steve Barnes

Yes. No, you're right.

01:51:53.88

Lindsey Dunn

because he says, I'm not Bob Gray. You know, like he, um and that, so that didn't really happen. Bob Gray was dragged off by wolves.

01:52:02.26

Steve Barnes

No, it didn't, but it was on the screen. There were... There were visuals that was on the screen. They're like these things. we saw them in this episode, whether or not they happened is immaterial. It's like we saw it.

01:52:15.51

Steve Barnes

So these images exist. That's what, ah that's the point I'm trying to make when I was bringing up our friend, Freddie is we have so much cool like visuals here and that,

01:52:28.22

Steve Barnes

moment could be argued as the birth of Pennywise. The first time that Pennywise, even though it's Dick Halloran's hallucination. Yes. I don't discount that, but in and of itself, it's cool.

01:52:45.47

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm. I'm not understanding at all what why you're saying that's the birth of Pennywise.

01:52:54.10

Steve Barnes

Okay. i mean, I'll drop the, I'll drop the point then.

01:52:54.81

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:52:56.63

Steve Barnes

Cause I can't explain it any more than I have, but, um, I mean, I stand by my words,

01:52:57.21

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:53:02.10

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:53:04.95

Steve Barnes

but we're talking about Dick Halloran, Dick Halloran, this selfless individual who loves will, he wants to keep tabs on will and Charlotte, but he wants to keep that a secret for some reason.

01:53:06.33

Lindsey Dunn

All right. So, Dick Halloran, yes.

01:53:14.00

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:53:17.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. It's like, don't let anyone know about it. But yeah, he had a nice arc in this in this season.

01:53:26.14

Steve Barnes

Yeah, the whole season.

01:53:26.42

Lindsey Dunn

Beginning, we see him as this disinterested party.

01:53:26.88

Steve Barnes

Mm hmm.

01:53:35.58

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, he's grown up in an abusive home. The military is using him for his skills. He's using the military right back.

01:53:44.41

Steve Barnes

h

01:53:44.73

Lindsey Dunn

Um... He's getting special privileges. And he's pretty selfish. He's really just interested in his in himself, what he can get out of this, and not investing too much in anyone.

01:54:01.53

Lindsey Dunn

By the end, we see that he is connected to this group of people. He feels a special kind of way for these Hanlans.

01:54:13.94

Lindsey Dunn

He loves a little Rich. He showed up for his funeral.

01:54:17.40

Steve Barnes

hey

01:54:17.75

Lindsey Dunn

and And he wouldn't normally have done that. And I feel like we're seeing the birth of Dick Halloran as we know him from The Shining. The one that loves kids and that would do anything to rescue a child in his care.

01:54:26.24

Steve Barnes

That's right. Exactly.

01:54:29.54

Steve Barnes

hmm.

01:54:37.08

Lindsey Dunn

And I feel like they did a nice job with his overall arc and where they left him makes it a little more clear how he got to be the Dick Halloran that's in The Shining.

01:54:51.54

Steve Barnes

That's right. Yeah. I had the exact same thoughts too. was like, he was going to commit suicide, but then he's like, no, Will needs me. So I need to stay alive. And then he's like, I'm going to leave this town, but I still kind of want to keep tabs on this family that I helped because I care about them. And yeah, that carries over to Danny and how he cares about Danny and wants to help him.

01:55:16.73

Steve Barnes

So yeah, I absolutely love how they threw that in there.

01:55:24.98

Lindsey Dunn

What else was I going to say about him?

01:55:30.65

Lindsey Dunn

i don't know. do you anything else to say about Dick Halloran?

01:55:34.46

Steve Barnes

I mean, that we haven't already said, I'm i'm not sure. like um i mean, I can just wrap it up by saying that you know we are going to see the Dick Halloran that we we have come to know from Dr. Sleep and from The Shining.

01:55:48.41

Steve Barnes

um We've seen a ah big arc of his growth in this show that leads to that, that I think ties in nicely to it. So that... even though we weren't exactly loving this last episode and maybe we won't look back on the season like a hundred percent fondly, but we're definitely going to look back on this, um, I guess exposition of, of Dick Halloran and Pennywise the clown.

01:56:17.98

Steve Barnes

They've really have succeeded in these two characters and showing like cool arcs, um, and their beginnings and like where they're going to go to.

01:56:27.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I think out of all, i would say out of all of the characters that showed up, Dick Halloran really feels like he belongs in this series. And he he always was part of it. He was a character. he knew about it.

01:56:46.46

Lindsey Dunn

he Dick Halloran knows about the black spot and he's mentioned in a book. i can't remember which one now that he's mentioned in, but he, The Shining, yes.

01:56:56.25

Steve Barnes

The Shining.

01:56:58.12

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. So it it feels like he should have been in this book all along, in this story all along. He fits if it's in perfectly. It's not forced at all. So all the other characters that I'm talking about that have, that feel somewhat forced or some of the things they do don't seem natural.

01:57:16.06

Lindsey Dunn

Dick Calleran is not one of them. I think what I was going to say that I was losing as a he gives a, he winks at the end. And I thought that was nice because remember he kept winking at Leroy and he's, he link winks at the end.

01:57:27.64

Steve Barnes

He is a winker. Yep.

01:57:31.39

Lindsey Dunn

And I can't remember if he winks in the shining, but.

01:57:34.26

Steve Barnes

He does. He winks in Dr. Sleep and The Shining. Yes, he's a winker.

01:57:37.24

Lindsey Dunn

ah Okay.

01:57:38.65

Steve Barnes

ah

01:57:38.94

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Well, there's your video cue, Freddy. You can make a video of Dick Howard all the times he winked.

01:57:48.22

Lindsey Dunn

um So I lied. we We do have a couple more characters here. We have mainly Beverly Marsh and Elfrida Marsh. So how much money do you think they paid Sophie sophie Lillis to show up here at this five seconds?

01:58:06.30

Steve Barnes

Did she have any lines? She might have gotten like, you know, like extra work here where like she just got paid as an extra. I'm kidding.

01:58:13.52

Lindsey Dunn

I'm surprised that, I mean, did she had lines, but all of the lines that she was saying was were spoken off camera, like as Ingrid Kirsch is, cameras on her and she's going, somebody help her somebody help her.

01:58:13.62

Steve Barnes

Of course.

01:58:24.40

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:58:28.94

Lindsey Dunn

so

01:58:29.29

Steve Barnes

She's background. That's it. Yeah.

01:58:31.90

Lindsey Dunn

so we just see the back of her head, then she turns it around and there she is.

01:58:38.59

Steve Barnes

I got to think that that's the only reason this episode is called winter fire.

01:58:44.47

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:58:44.61

Steve Barnes

I fully believe that is because Beverly Marsh shows up at the end because otherwise this, there's no fire and it's not the winter time, even though he makes it cold, it's not the winter time.

01:58:55.19

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:58:56.86

Steve Barnes

So it's gotta be for Beverly.

01:59:00.36

Lindsey Dunn

It's

01:59:03.16

Lindsey Dunn

if i could give up if I could give a worst moment of the episode, it would probably be this. and And part of it, maybe I wouldn't have hated it as much, but like I said, this this moment was spoiled weeks ago.

01:59:16.93

Lindsey Dunn

Somebody decided to leak this picture online, whether it was Reddit or Facebook or maybe all of them.

01:59:20.82

Steve Barnes

h

01:59:24.57

Lindsey Dunn

So I know i don't know what's going on there, HBO Max. Your your your press has leaks. you need to fix that or stop giving people, these YouTubers, early access to these episodes if they're going to spoil it, but yeah, it's like Elfrida Marsh is a patient at Jupiter Hill.

01:59:32.76

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:59:37.11

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:59:45.74

Lindsey Dunn

She's been a patient several times and has made more than one suicide attempt because they make the comment, she finally did it. She finally killed herself. So this isn't the first time that they've come out um to take care of her or got a report about her.

02:00:06.17

Lindsey Dunn

And then we see a young girl and a man crying and sobbing as this woman's body is hanging up. I was, I'll tell you what I thought, Steve. I thought a hundred percent the, this woman was Ingrid.

02:00:25.53

Steve Barnes

Right. Me too.

02:00:26.46

Lindsey Dunn

That's what I thought was really going to happen is that Ingrid hangs herself. And that confirms that, Oh, that the Mrs. Kirsch we see isn't the real Mrs. Kirsch.

02:00:37.97

Lindsey Dunn

It's Pennywise. And so I don't know who the, I don't know who the girl or the man was supposed to be, but I, that's what I thought.

02:00:39.82

Steve Barnes

Right.

02:00:45.57

Lindsey Dunn

So no, it's not. It's Beverly Marsh and help freedom. Marsh.

02:00:52.18

Steve Barnes

It was, um, Maybe another Easter egg, how like her dad shrugs her off of her shoulder, like in this motion, like get your hand off me.

02:01:03.32

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:01:03.58

Steve Barnes

Um, because we we know her dad is like abusive towards her.

02:01:03.55

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:01:06.62

Steve Barnes

So that little motion kind of confirms that to us.

02:01:11.61

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, which makes no sense. I mean, it makes sense. We know shes he's abusive, but why would he do that when she's his wife just died and she's comforting him? I don't know.

02:01:26.24

Steve Barnes

They just wanted to just, just to remind you that he sucks.

02:01:29.30

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:01:29.52

Steve Barnes

That's it. Just with one motion. Just he sucks. Remember? Yeah, we remember.

02:01:33.59

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. And the security at Jupiter Hill is airtight because Ingrid Kirsch is just allowed to wander down the hall into anybody's room, even if they've just killed so killed themselves.

02:01:46.33

Steve Barnes

ah

02:01:46.71

Lindsey Dunn

that There's no orderlies that are guiding her or saying, keep this room clear, everybody.

02:01:55.43

Steve Barnes

It's the 80s, man. Come on. It's all good.

02:02:00.66

Steve Barnes

But yeah, would it it it it is a little disappointing how we we don't get any of like the Mrs. Kirsch confirmation. So now we know that like that one in the movie was just Pennywise all along.

02:02:14.84

Steve Barnes

I mean, I think we've, we've already gone through this earlier, like about two hours ago when we were talking about this exact same thing. Um, it, it just, did it didn't really, um, ring any bells for me, I suppose.

02:02:27.26

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

02:02:29.95

Lindsey Dunn

Right. what did you think about the special effects in this episode? We have like the giant bird. We have the fog. the you know did You've had some complaints about the CGI. Did you have complaints about the bird?

02:02:45.18

Lindsey Dunn

i liked the bird myself.

02:02:46.04

Steve Barnes

No, the bird was great. Um, I actually think of, i was thinking it looked more like a dragon and I was like, Oh, HBO loves dragons. So I guess that's why they put a dragon in here because of game of Thrones and house of the dragon and stuff.

02:02:55.46

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

02:03:00.63

Steve Barnes

Cause I thought it looked more like a dragon than a bird personally, especially those wings. Um, no, I had no issue with, um, with any CGI we saw in this episode, I don't think. Um,

02:03:12.14

Steve Barnes

No, I take that back. I i do't i still don't like Pennywise's um big razor teeth mouth. When he does that thing where he like has the the big like three rows of teeth, not a fan of that.

02:03:26.47

Steve Barnes

um Just doesn't look cool.

02:03:27.05

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

02:03:28.23

Steve Barnes

i mean I'd be scared if it came at me, but looking at it on TV, it it doesn't really do much for me. Everything else did, though. Even like when he was doing like the the unnecessary like unveiling of all his different um, manifestations. I mean, I thought that was well done and you could tell it was CGI because of all the drippy stuff coming off of it.

02:03:49.18

Steve Barnes

But even so it looked, it looked cool and it kept me in the story. Um, I think all in all, just the look of Pennywise,

02:03:58.38

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:04:00.06

Steve Barnes

more than anything else is the most striking thing about this show, more than the CGI, more than any special effects, just the look that they were able to achieve with Pennywise, especially with this, um, mostly red and the white eyes look he has.

02:04:15.74

Steve Barnes

Um, I mean, I think that's super successful and I think that image will pay off in the long run. They'll have plenty of t-shirts and stickers sold of that image.

02:04:28.22

Lindsey Dunn

either I like the bird. I think a lot of people were upset that the bird didn't show up at the black spot. But I like i liked them because that's that's when in the books Will sees it.

02:04:35.82

Steve Barnes

Oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah. I'm upset now too. ah

02:04:43.38

Lindsey Dunn

In the books Will sees it when he's a tween and it's a bird with giant balloons on its wings. And then later Mike sees it when he's attacked as a baby. And in the Muschietti movies he's supposed to see it in the movies too.

02:04:55.96

Steve Barnes

And he,

02:04:56.26

Lindsey Dunn

But in

02:04:56.98

Steve Barnes

He was at the black spot too. The bird was at the black spot because the in the book, one of the survivors of the black spot talks about how we saw a big bird take somebody away. I think it might've been, yeah, it was, it was, um, uh, Leroy or Mike, one of the Leroy or will one of the two of them.

02:05:07.01

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

02:05:14.30

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. In the, it's in the books is when the bird shows up.

02:05:17.11

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:05:17.94

Lindsey Dunn

So they, they put it in the TV show, but they put it at the end instead of the black spot incident.

02:05:18.39

Steve Barnes

At the black spot. Yeah.

02:05:25.88

Lindsey Dunn

And it was a cool special effect.

02:05:26.03

Steve Barnes

Mm.

02:05:28.08

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. It looks more like a pterodactyl or a raptor than a bird, but that, that seems, you know, it's going to be a bird that is horrifying.

02:05:32.47

Steve Barnes

yeah

02:05:37.62

Lindsey Dunn

um But yeah, i I thought the fog looked really creepy.

02:05:38.63

Steve Barnes

It worked for me.

02:05:42.14

Lindsey Dunn

The circus parade, the tree, the tree that they're going to. So I thought the production design was was really good.

02:05:51.26

Steve Barnes

Yeah, no complaints here on that.

02:05:53.18

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. All right. I think we're ready to rate our episode. So we're going to have, and oh, unless you, I'm sorry.

02:05:59.67

Steve Barnes

Oh, are we? Okay. Oh. ah

02:06:02.92

Lindsey Dunn

i have what i'll tell I'll just tell you what I have here at the end. I have rate the episode, rate the season.

02:06:09.37

Steve Barnes

Oh, no, no, no.

02:06:09.78

Lindsey Dunn

absolutely Yeah.

02:06:10.05

Steve Barnes

I'm not surprised by that.

02:06:10.74

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

02:06:11.95

Steve Barnes

I'm just saying, oh, no, I got to rate the episode. Because it's scary.

02:06:14.58

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Yes. Here we are.

02:06:19.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yes. Rate the episode.

02:06:22.48

Steve Barnes

I guess me first, then, the way you're pausing. Okay. All right.

02:06:24.80

Lindsey Dunn

Sure.

02:06:26.17

Steve Barnes

Um...

02:06:30.07

Steve Barnes

Yeah, like I said, it was a little little foggy in this one. I think I'm going to have to go back to the beginning um because that I gave the the first episode a two out of five.

02:06:42.74

Steve Barnes

and think I'm going to get at this last episode two turtles out of five as well. um I've been given these last few episodes like, you know, five turtles each, four turtles each. Like i've been loving it.

02:06:56.92

Steve Barnes

I was really invested even last episode. I was totally into it. I think that the fog has lifted and I'm out of the dead lights. Now I have clarity.

02:07:10.10

Steve Barnes

So I'm just going to give this episode two out of five turtles. How about yourself, Lindsey?

02:07:16.45

Lindsey Dunn

I'm going to give this episode three out of five.

02:07:20.25

Steve Barnes

Okay.

02:07:21.21

Lindsey Dunn

I really wanted to like this finale more than I did. And I thought it had, and I think I've made it clear in this podcast, there's many things I liked about it. The production design, the horror elements, um some some of the characters, but the the dialogue was so bad.

02:07:42.65

Lindsey Dunn

And just some of the plot holes, felt so hammered in. There was plot holes and then there were plot things they tried to hammer in that feel forced that shouldn't happen in a season finale.

02:07:50.94

Steve Barnes

hu

02:07:58.14

Steve Barnes

Yeah, it sucks when things don't end strong.

02:07:58.17

Lindsey Dunn

So...

02:08:02.30

Steve Barnes

you know

02:08:03.09

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:08:03.35

Steve Barnes

Especially something you're enjoying. If it doesn't have a strong ending, it kind of kind of hurts a little bit.

02:08:07.65

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, I definitely enjoyed watching it last night. I was very excited to watch the finale.

02:08:12.98

Steve Barnes

Yeah, me too.

02:08:14.94

Lindsey Dunn

had... my giant diet Coke and i was, and my bowl of popcorn for real, not, I was actually eating butter popcorn and enjoying every single bite and enjoying every moment of the show.

02:08:19.45

Steve Barnes

ah

02:08:24.62

Steve Barnes

Heck yeah.

02:08:28.83

Lindsey Dunn

But then when I had, when I had to really look at it, honestly, i just thought, Oh, there's, there's things that just make me flinch.

02:08:40.28

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. So we are going to now rate the season as a whole.

02:08:45.34

Steve Barnes

All right. Okay.

02:08:48.06

Lindsey Dunn

and okay go ahead

02:08:48.34

Steve Barnes

Well,

02:08:51.51

Steve Barnes

okay. Okay. Yeah. I'm going ahead. Here we go.

02:08:53.65

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

02:08:53.87

Steve Barnes

She gave me permission. Um, yeah. Stephen King's universe, Stephen King's stuff. Um, a lot of times the premises of his books, as much as I love them are really silly because

02:09:11.45

Steve Barnes

straight up. Okay. We have a cemetery and you bury your pet there. They come back to life. Wow. Um, you know, we're, we got this evil clown that comes alive every 27 years and kills kids. I mean, they're, they're flimsy premises.

02:09:26.20

Steve Barnes

What I've realized with Stephen King and with a lot of his shows and movies too, is the characters are the lifeboats and the story is the anchor.

02:09:40.06

Steve Barnes

Because it's always the characters that I walk away loving and especially the character interactions. And in here, it's the same thing too. Like I like all these characters and I loved watching them all play together and I love watching them hate each other.

02:09:55.06

Steve Barnes

But the story itself, you know, and not that much to it. um I mean, the story really works in your heart, but not really so much in your head, i think.

02:10:08.15

Steve Barnes

So, I don't think it's a total loss or anything. i I did enjoy it overall and I did enjoy the season overall more than I enjoyed the finale or the first episode.

02:10:22.81

Steve Barnes

Like the middle part was, was very good. So in a sense it was like pancakes, which like at first like you're well, no, it's not like pancakes. Nevermind. Forget that analogy. It's not like pancakes. I'm giving the season three turtles out of five altogether because I feel it's directly middle down the road.

02:10:41.92

Steve Barnes

It's there's some points to it that are silly and we talked about all that this episode, but there are some really special moments to this and there are some really good moments.

02:10:53.53

Steve Barnes

There are some really good episodes. Episodes five and six and seven were very strong. And so because of that, I think it kind of carries a season for me. So I think three overall is very fair.

02:11:07.88

Lindsey Dunn

I'm also giving it three out of five. So since my reasons are very similar to you, I'm just going to say, yeah, that's, that's what I'm giving it.

02:11:18.70

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I think, I think you said it all really. I think you were trying to think of the compliment sandwich, but um you know, when you were thinking, of yeah but yeah, I am looking forward to next, the next seasons.

02:11:25.30

Steve Barnes

Oh, maybe, maybe so.

02:11:33.90

Lindsey Dunn

We're hoping it will be renewed. I am. and and

02:11:37.26

Steve Barnes

I'm sure, I'm sure it will be. I'm not hoping, I'm just kind of positive it will be.

02:11:40.98

Lindsey Dunn

yeah Yeah. I mean, I've just, I've had too many shows get canceled at this point. I never take anything for granted.

02:11:48.07

Steve Barnes

Oh, good point.

02:11:50.33

Lindsey Dunn

So, but yeah, it was, I'm hoping that, it might be that once you go, we once we go back, we'll say, hey, we're wrong.

02:12:01.12

Lindsey Dunn

It was better than we thought. But right now, I'm, I'm saving some of the adulation for maybe future seasons.

02:12:03.02

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

02:12:12.76

Steve Barnes

I wonder how will work on a binge rewatch. Um, because me and Charlotte have plans. She hasn't seen past episode two yet, but a couple of days ago she was making plans with me to rewatch or to, you know, watch the rest of the season.

02:12:28.15

Steve Barnes

So I'm going to be doing that with Charlotte. We're going like a binge rewatch. So I'll report back to you, Lindsey, what we think about that. If that helps, this helps the rewatch or if it hurts it, you never know.

02:12:34.12

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:12:38.62

Lindsey Dunn

And you saying that makes me think, would I do a binge rewatch? And I don't think I would, which makes me, makes me realize that, I mean, I liked the show. Maybe I would watch rewatch it again when season two comes out, but I don't love it. Like I do some other shows that you think, I can't wait to watch it again. i don't think I do.

02:13:05.53

Steve Barnes

I feel the same way too. If it was just me, I wouldn't rewatch it either. But this is my daughter. My daughter wants to rewatch it with me.

02:13:10.81

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:13:12.80

Steve Barnes

So of course I'm going to do that.

02:13:14.39

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:13:14.60

Steve Barnes

And just like with you, like if somebody from your family was like, or somebody that you love wanted to watch Welcome to Derry and never seen it before, I'm sure you would probably do that as well.

02:13:24.86

Steve Barnes

Not of your own volition, but you know, out of curiosity or just for an event with a friend.

02:13:32.12

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Now we have moment And i'm so I'm sticking a new one in here, Steve, that i didn't tell you about. So I'll go first for that one. But I want to do top moment of the season.

02:13:41.88

Steve Barnes

Okay.

02:13:43.76

Lindsey Dunn

So your top, out of all the show, top moment of the season.

02:13:44.47

Steve Barnes

Okay.

02:13:46.84

Lindsey Dunn

And then top horror moment of the season. Like which horror scare do you think was the most effective in your book?

02:13:51.05

Steve Barnes

Oh, fun. Okay.

02:13:55.00

Steve Barnes

You definitely go first then. Okay.

02:13:56.18

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. So top moment of the season. Looking at everything... I have to go back to Marge and Rich in the cafeteria eating lunch.

02:14:10.49

Lindsey Dunn

That moment when the two of them sit with their over their green jellos and bond and he gives her the eye patch and then they get to, you know, they're talking about the pirate and the knight and they just have the this cutest interaction that was not cringe worthy at all.

02:14:12.95

Steve Barnes

Okay.

02:14:16.44

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:14:36.48

Lindsey Dunn

It felt very natural, very childlike, and it was just sweet.

02:14:40.75

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:14:41.88

Lindsey Dunn

The two of them there and then the patty cakes coming up in that moment when you're wondering, are they going to, are they going, is she going to be a jerk and go with the patty cakes or is she going to stay?

02:14:46.42

Steve Barnes

Oh, God.

02:14:55.67

Lindsey Dunn

And that's the moment that Rich really falls in love with Marge, I think.

02:15:00.31

Steve Barnes

Yep.

02:15:01.21

Lindsey Dunn

But that, for the whole show. I think that's my very favorite moment.

02:15:07.31

Steve Barnes

That's tough one to top. That's great. Yeah, because the the way that scene ends, too, with her showing the eye and saying that she's defining herself as a freak was great. So, yeah.

02:15:16.84

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

02:15:18.42

Steve Barnes

um I guess for me, maybe it wasn't the the particular moment that this happened, but the whole situations around it and just the event itself, ah the return of Maddie.

02:15:30.53

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm.

02:15:32.89

Steve Barnes

I thought that was great. And it was great the way that he popped out of the tent. It was great with the way they had the way that had the interactions with the kids when they thought he was Maddie. When he turned into Pennywise, that was great.

02:15:45.72

Steve Barnes

um Everything about that was great. The fact that he even did that, the fact that the show went there and did that to us and kind of played into the fan service some. I thought that was very well done too. So Maddie's return.

02:16:00.44

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, that was a journey.

02:16:02.97

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:16:03.13

Lindsey Dunn

Because there there was that rumor, is Maddie still alive?

02:16:07.31

Steve Barnes

Yep.

02:16:07.64

Lindsey Dunn

and then but the But the way that it was done was a total surprise. Not something I expected to see. I didn't expect to see little Maddie Clements again. And I especially didn't expect to see him turn into Pennywise.

02:16:19.42

Lindsey Dunn

But we got it. And they they nailed that moment. that's

02:16:22.58

Steve Barnes

Sure.

02:16:23.14

Lindsey Dunn

That's a great pick. Okay, top horror moment of the season. So for you, what was your biggest scare the biggest moment that you thought was well done i am going to go ahead and choose the ronnie birth scene i believe this i believe this was in episode two so this is going back a little bit and unfortunately it's in the same episode as cemetery gate but we or maybe it's maybe that was a okay it's not We had two big, but we had two big scares in that.

02:16:42.29

Steve Barnes

Oh, good call.

02:16:54.39

Steve Barnes

No, it's not. It's it's not. Nope.

02:16:59.26

Lindsey Dunn

We had the Ronnie scare and we had the pickle dad scare. And this is the one that happens in Ronnie's room where she's in her bed and there's that moment where she's suffocated under her bed sheets and it turns into a uterus and she's bored and there's goo all over the floor.

02:17:03.83

Steve Barnes

Right.

02:17:13.24

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

02:17:18.10

Lindsey Dunn

and it seems to last forever. And even though it was... a CGI practical effect. I felt like it was really gross.

02:17:28.92

Lindsey Dunn

And so that's, that's, that's my pick. Ronnie's rebirth scene.

02:17:35.89

Steve Barnes

That's solid, yes. I agree i agree with that. um yeahp I guess my, because I wasn't prepared for this either, but when you talk about the scary scenes, I think like that the first thing that comes to my mind, and I think it's stuck here, is um the image of Pennywise sleeping in his lair and like in all that blood. You can just see like his eyes.

02:18:02.01

Steve Barnes

And then like when he wakes up, Um, I just, I love that scene. I love that image. i love everything about that. So I'm going to just simply put that one as my scare.

02:18:16.09

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, that was gross.

02:18:18.02

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

02:18:18.29

Lindsey Dunn

And very effective way they they put all that together.

02:18:18.73

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

02:18:23.35

Steve Barnes

And then his costume, like from the rest of the season after that, um, it, it carries over as well. And I like that a lot. I like that about it too. It died as clothes red.

02:18:33.85

Lindsey Dunn

bathed in a lake of crimson.

02:18:35.93

Steve Barnes

ah Lovely.

02:18:39.32

Lindsey Dunn

All right, so now we're going to have MVP character. and mvp MVP character of this episode and MVP character of the season.

02:18:49.72

Steve Barnes

All right. And I first, I guess.

02:18:51.15

Lindsey Dunn

Sure.

02:18:52.57

Steve Barnes

All right. Okay. You're not going to agree with me on this one, but. I'm going to give my MVP of this episode to young ghostly rich for two reasons. One, because he gave the finger to Pennywise. We got to love that.

02:19:10.94

Steve Barnes

And then two, because he was the last benevolent force that we needed to get that spike into the ground. However far-fetched it is. We don't, I mean that, that whole rich resurrection thing is just completely far-fetched BS.

02:19:28.58

Steve Barnes

Nonetheless, I love Rich a lot. I was very happy to see him again. um i Despite the corniness of the of some of the funeral stuff, I liked seeing him at the funeral too because he looked nice. His hair was good.

02:19:42.29

Steve Barnes

He had on his shirt and everything, of that red shirt. But yeah, just the just Rich. This episode, his return, he did it for me. I give him MVP.

02:19:52.57

Lindsey Dunn

You saying the hair makes me think, well, we should have had a Polly moment then where he could have come back and shown her his good hair as a ghost too.

02:19:57.88

Steve Barnes

ah

02:20:01.33

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, he did get to show his hair, but.

02:20:05.08

Steve Barnes

Yeah, why didn't he come back too?

02:20:05.12

Lindsey Dunn

He looked.

02:20:06.92

Steve Barnes

You're right. he It should have been like the bear guy, rich on one hand, poly on the other hand.

02:20:07.42

Lindsey Dunn

he look

02:20:12.66

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, or Polly could have shown up at the black spot and helped with that escape.

02:20:17.69

Steve Barnes

Yeah, exactly.

02:20:17.69

Lindsey Dunn

But, eh.

02:20:18.44

Steve Barnes

Meh.

02:20:18.57

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Missed opportunity. Let us know if you need our help, Muschiettes.

02:20:23.90

Steve Barnes

ah The Hoosier MVP of the episode then.

02:20:26.68

Lindsey Dunn

All right. My MVP of this episode is going to be a gentleman that I have yet to acclaim this whole, really, season.

02:20:38.79

Lindsey Dunn

I'm giving it to Pennywise. You know, you

02:20:41.40

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah. Okay. Uh-huh.

02:20:42.36

Lindsey Dunn

You award gave Pennywise an award one episode.

02:20:46.07

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:20:46.84

Lindsey Dunn

I thought he did a super job being super villain.

02:20:53.27

Steve Barnes

yeah

02:20:53.69

Lindsey Dunn

And I especially liked his moment when he woke up in the clown cart and got slapped around. But he was he was as epic of a villain as we deserve in this finale.

02:21:10.31

Steve Barnes

He's a hornsman too. He was playing the tuba this episode. That was great. He's a musician.

02:21:16.13

Lindsey Dunn

That's right. Well, I mean, I called him the Pied Piper. he was He was leading the kids. That was very very appropriate of a fairy tale character.

02:21:25.53

Steve Barnes

That's fair. Okay.

02:21:26.74

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

02:21:27.11

Steve Barnes

I'm glad you get, i was thinking you're gonna give it to Leroy this episode because you were, you were glazing him a lot earlier.

02:21:29.78

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, no.

02:21:31.79

Steve Barnes

So I was sure it was going to be him.

02:21:32.73

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, glazing. I would have, if i if you had picked Pennywise, I would have gone with my number two, which would be Marge.

02:21:42.01

Steve Barnes

Okay, okay.

02:21:42.84

Lindsey Dunn

I already gave Leroy an MVP. You know, I definitely always try to spread the love around.

02:21:49.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah, you got to do that.

02:21:50.29

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Okay. MVP character of the season. I can go first this time. All right.

02:21:58.55

Steve Barnes

Sure, go for it.

02:21:59.66

Lindsey Dunn

I am picking Chris Chalk as Dick Alleran.

02:22:03.58

Steve Barnes

Solid, solid choice.

02:22:05.61

Lindsey Dunn

I've already explained why i admire his arcs. I won't go over that again, but I thought, that, yeah, I just appreciate this performance, and i like the tie-in to Dick Halloran and The Shining, and he, yeah, he's a he's a good character, and we will always appreciate him in our hearts.

02:22:34.36

Steve Barnes

he has He has a house in our heart, Lindsey.

02:22:36.54

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, boy. i was going to say something about that, because you mentioned the lifeboat, or the anchor, and I'm like, Yeah, well, Dekaleron has a home in the heart.

02:22:48.44

Steve Barnes

ah

02:22:50.96

Lindsey Dunn

Who's your MVP character of the season?

02:22:51.29

Steve Barnes

Well... Of the season. So yeah, like Dick Halloran was definitely my runner up for sure. And, um, but I wasn't going to say him.

02:23:02.65

Steve Barnes

i would, I would have said him if he was my mount late guy, we would have both held hands and said Dick Halloran. But um for the season, when it comes to like every episode, who do I like the most? It's got to be Miss Marge.

02:23:16.53

Steve Barnes

Marge is my lady. So, I mean, she gets it just for for spunk and for for being a freak, like proclaiming herself a freak and...

02:23:26.76

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

02:23:27.83

Steve Barnes

her, her arc that she went through, we know Dick Halloran went through an arc, but so did she. And this is a good time to, um, go back on something we didn't talk about with Pennywise, who's your MVP of this episode and Marge, who's my MVP of the season.

02:23:46.36

Steve Barnes

So Pennywise said he called the three girls, the fool, the failure and the freak. And he, he didn't say which one was which.

02:23:58.78

Steve Barnes

So my suspicion is that by using um elimination, i would say Lily is the freak first off um because that's just what the town proclaims her as is like crazy and the freak.

02:23:58.84

Lindsey Dunn

That's true.

02:24:13.49

Steve Barnes

So Lily's the freak hands down. So it's like, who is the fool and who is the failure? So I don't really see either one of them really being foolish, but I do see a lot of failure with Marge and where Pennywise would probably,

02:24:29.05

Steve Barnes

try to capitalize on that. We're like, Oh, you're not popular. You didn't get with your popular friends or whatever. So I think it's Marge. That's the failure. Therefore, Ronnie is leftover as the fool.

02:24:41.46

Steve Barnes

Do you agree with that? or you think differently?

02:24:43.92

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I hate to poke holes in your theory, Steve, but i when you first said that, i dinner I was thinking, oh, yeah, there's that.

02:24:48.95

Steve Barnes

Okay.

02:24:56.76

Lindsey Dunn

But when you said freak, I was like, freak has to be Marge, because in the cafeteria, she says, i am a freak. Remember?

02:25:04.94

Steve Barnes

Huh. I do remember. oh

02:25:07.93

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. So fool and failure. This is a good question. This, I guess this would be like a good litmus test. you know You're at a party.

02:25:16.57

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:25:17.71

Lindsey Dunn

Everybody has to say, um I don't know. I would think that i wonder if they, these are words these girls have used to describe themselves because Ronnie, you know I could see Ronnie maybe saying, I feel like a fool.

02:25:32.09

Steve Barnes

I don't. Hmm.

02:25:37.45

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

02:25:37.88

Lindsey Dunn

You know, maybe that's a line she said. So maybe these are words that they used for the to describe themselves. And, you know, because you know how people give themselves negative talk.

02:25:49.88

Steve Barnes

I could see Lily calling herself a failure as well. So that, yeah, that kind of does make sense.

02:25:54.20

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. But Marge did use the word freak as anym a word of empowerment. So would Pennywise use that?

02:26:00.06

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:26:02.06

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. This is a good question.

02:26:07.10

Steve Barnes

But all in all, though, we know that Dick Halloran and what was Marge's last name? Truman? It's not Tozer.

02:26:13.45

Lindsey Dunn

Truman.

02:26:14.65

Steve Barnes

Yeah, Marge Truman and Dick Halloran.

02:26:14.68

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:26:17.09

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

02:26:17.53

Steve Barnes

Best of the season.

02:26:19.90

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Okay. So that comes into, let's talk predictions. You've already predicted it will be renewed. I'm hoping it will be renewed.

02:26:29.88

Steve Barnes

ah

02:26:30.07

Lindsey Dunn

But they've set us up for season two. So what do you, I think we've already kind of talked about some of this, but did you have anything new to add that came to you this episode.

02:26:39.03

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:26:45.99

Steve Barnes

Uh, no, not really. It just seems confirmed that Pennywise is going to be going back looking for the Bainbridges, um, looking for the Truman's looking for their families to try to off their parents.

02:26:59.32

Steve Barnes

And

02:27:03.06

Steve Barnes

here's an interesting prediction. This, this just did just come to me, Lindsey, like a lightning bolt. We know how Pennywise doesn't see time linearly. He doesn't know what the beginning and or middle is just kind of all is to him.

02:27:18.33

Steve Barnes

So we maybe we'll get some flashbacks next season, even though we'll be like in 1935 19, 1935. That's what it is Maybe Pennywise will have some memories or maybe they'll show up in some sort of like memory way because Pennywise knows who Richie Tozier is.

02:27:38.60

Steve Barnes

Therefore, in 1935, he'll remember who all these kids are, too.

02:27:45.66

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, well... Here's something to consider. I know they said that he is, um that he sees the past, present, and the future the same, but it feels like because they made these times go backwards, I'm wondering if what really happened is Pennywise

02:28:17.05

Lindsey Dunn

dies in 2017 and he's actually moving forward backwards.

02:28:21.63

Steve Barnes

E.D.A. 88, 89.

02:28:28.26

Lindsey Dunn

like He's moving forward in time. So he goes from 2017 1989. Then goes to goes to 35. And then um you know nineteen eighty nine

02:28:37.91

Steve Barnes

eighty eight aja

02:28:39.13

Lindsey Dunn

a nine then he goes to sixtyt two then he goes to thirty-five and then the end of his life is actually 1908. Well, not the end because he was, he was born before that, but I wondered if he's actually not jumping around, but he's actually going backwards.

02:28:59.09

Lindsey Dunn

Like that's like, this is his survival mechanism is going backwards. And maybe you've already thought of that, but it's there's in the after special they have at the end of the episode, they always have the mushy at ease talking.

02:29:13.37

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

02:29:15.22

Lindsey Dunn

And he's Andy said something about what if Pennywise is going backwards in time. So it felt like he's actually moving backwards. Like maybe he was. It's I'm i'm happy this is hurting my brain now. He can't have been born in 2017.

02:29:37.21

Lindsey Dunn

But they they almost made it sound like.

02:29:37.40

Steve Barnes

No.

02:29:41.27

Lindsey Dunn

What we've been viewing as him. being reborn later is actually him being reborn earlier. So I don't understand exactly how it works, but I was, yeah.

02:29:51.67

Steve Barnes

Well, to him, his, his death and his birth are the same thing. They occurred on the same day. So he was killed in 2017. He as Pennywise was born in that wagon in 1908.

02:30:07.48

Steve Barnes

So all of his like memories are collective between 1908 2017. Like,

02:30:15.58

Lindsey Dunn

like he But he wasn't born then because the little boy, the little urchin boy is there.

02:30:22.52

Steve Barnes

Pennywise, what we know as Pennywise was born in 1908. That's what I was trying to harp on, the birth of Pennywise. Because before he became Pennywise, he was just shapeless. He was just a shapeshifter.

02:30:37.05

Steve Barnes

Once he became Pennywise, he liked it.

02:30:37.15

Lindsey Dunn

Right. But his consciousness his consciousness is the same, though. It's not like there's a different consciousness when he's Pennywise.

02:30:41.86

Steve Barnes

Of course.

02:30:44.80

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

02:30:45.54

Steve Barnes

That's right. That's right.

02:30:47.19

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Well, i I didn't mean when I said was saying Pennywise, I mean it. I don't, I wasn't, I didn't mean. um Well, I'm thinking about it, the entity, not just Pennywise.

02:30:54.20

Steve Barnes

Well, I mean penny Pennywise only existed between 1908 and 2017. That's the only time Pennywise existed. So that's what we're focused on here.

02:31:09.59

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Okay. Well, i mean, it's like, you know, Jesus and God. It's like, think of Pennywise as Jesus and it is God.

02:31:16.99

Lindsey Dunn

He's one form one form of the entity is Pennywise Yeah Right Anyway I'm just saying He might be getting older As he's getting younger Like maybe he's like a Benjamin Button type Yeah

02:31:20.31

Steve Barnes

Exactly. Exactly. And our story is focused on Pennywise.

02:31:36.02

Steve Barnes

Oh, I didn't catch that. Oh, that's interesting. i don't know how that would work actually, but it it would work just like Benjamin Button, I guess.

02:31:42.35

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah

02:31:46.26

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:31:46.54

Steve Barnes

Let's go rewatch that and see how it works.

02:31:48.15

Lindsey Dunn

and ah yeah It almost feels like the more you try to explain, the the worse it will get. So I'm not sure if we need all of this explaining.

02:31:55.33

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

02:31:57.94

Lindsey Dunn

I'm not sure why they put it in But if they're going to do it, they have to do it well. And we will judge them.

02:32:05.08

Steve Barnes

Yeah, we will, and harshly do. Two turtles.

02:32:12.36

Lindsey Dunn

Alright, well do you have any plugs or closing announcements?

02:32:18.81

Steve Barnes

yeah i guess I guess it's pretty pertinent here because this is our last episode of It Welcome to Derry. um and Next episode, um I'll be releasing in two weeks because I've been releasing all these episodes weekly because we've been having a lot of fun watching them and then recording them the very next night. I'm going to slip back to a bi-weekly slash monthly schedule. The next episode you hear will be the return of Sarah Ellis and She'll be coming back and we'll be talking about songs about time once again. And keep me up in your feed, sweet child of time. Keep me subscribed. You might not see episodes every week, but you will see episodes. I guarantee it.

02:33:02.79

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, the next thing I will probably be putting out after this will be the part two of Stranger Things will come out Christmas Day, and then I'll be recording with Harrison after that, and we'll also do so after the finale.

02:33:24.89

Lindsey Dunn

And then after that, it'll be end-of-the-year stuff, some more best-of-the-year lists, and items like that, but I won't be recapping a show again for a while unless we get the Struel Peter starting up.

02:33:39.03

Lindsey Dunn

If we get that, we will see.

02:33:40.34

Steve Barnes

Maybe January, we'll see.

02:33:41.88

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. But it's, it's been a little hectic pace doing these weekly releases, but yeah.

02:33:51.19

Steve Barnes

It has been. I've enjoyed it a lot. um i couldn't I couldn't keep this up every week doing this.

02:33:52.92

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

02:33:56.80

Steve Barnes

I mean, because we both have full-time jobs and full-time families and stuff too. But yeah, this has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed it and I hope we can do it again sometime.

02:34:05.85

Lindsey Dunn

Seems like back like the old days, Steve. we were Remember when we podcasted Dark?

02:34:09.48

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah.

02:34:11.14

Lindsey Dunn

We were doing those bu weekly releases.

02:34:14.97

Steve Barnes

Yes, we were. Yep. And you make it very easy for me, Lindsey. i got i'm goingnna I'm going to say thank you here at the end because you make this very easy for me. um You're putting out the um the formats and you're doing our introductions and our outros.

02:34:29.15

Steve Barnes

And I'm just giving you my thoughts along the way. So you make this very easy and that makes it fun for me. So thank you.

02:34:36.73

Lindsey Dunn

Well, it's been fun for me, and I hope it's been fun for all of you, our listeners. Thank you once again for joining us for this episode of Welcome to Derry. May all the clowns you meet be kind. May all the friends you met be kept safe in your hearts where they have a home.

02:34:54.14

Lindsey Dunn

And we wish you a happy rest of 2025. Goodbye, everybody. good-bye everybody

02:35:00.66

Steve Barnes

Yes, yes. Bye-bye.

Welcome to Derry, Episode 7: The Black Spot

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Thu, 11 Dec 2025 04:47:00 +0000

Bill Skarsgard as PENNYWISE

It's the penultimate episode of season 1, The Black Spot. It's the episode everyone has been waiting to happen -- the supposed big hurrah. Only it turns out, there's a second hurrah coming that could be even more important to this show's lore. Podcast partner Introvoid and I talk about that decision and why my enjoyment of this episode was dampened.

Arian S. Cartaya as RICH, Matilda Lawler as MARGE

Now, don't get me wrong. The Black Spot incident was delivered with terror and intrigue. The event was perpetrated by societal racism that will linger in the Derry water for eternity. However, then introducing a plot twist that leads to a threat of It being unleashed outside the borders of Derry undermines the terror of the Black Spot and could make it seem less than. And plus, hasn't it been hinted at that the entity's power used to be stronger in the past? We will see how this all resolves next week.

Chris Chalk as DICK HALLORANN

For all of our episode recaps, go to this landing page.

Steve Barnes is guitarist for stoner metal band Introvoid, and also plays guitar for the cover band Rebecca Crow. All of Steve's stuff can be found at Sweetchildoftime.com.

Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.

Emma Leigh-Cullum as YOUNG INGRID

Transcript of podcast

00:00:02.87

Lindsey Dunn

Hello and welcome to Welcome to Derry. I'm Lindsey Dunn, your host of the One of My Stories podcast. And with me today is your other host from the Sweet Child of Time podcast. I'm thinking it's time for us to hit the road in our own clown act. And our clown name will be peppercorn and peanut butter to stick with the P names.

00:00:25.46

Lindsey Dunn

It's Steve Barnes, ahoy!

00:00:27.95

Steve Barnes

Oh, Hey Lindsey. Hey, I like this. What, which one am i

00:00:32.34

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know, what what do you want, peppercorn or peanut butter?

00:00:35.48

Steve Barnes

Um, yeah, I love peppercorn has such a good, like Peppy, like umph to it, but I'm more of a peanut butter fan myself. So I'll let you be peppercorn.

00:00:44.15

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:00:44.31

Steve Barnes

Cause I'd have a lot of fun saying that here comes up peppercorn.

00:00:48.95

Lindsey Dunn

It's the peppercorn and peanut butter act!

00:00:51.70

Steve Barnes

ah

00:00:52.55

Lindsey Dunn

Wrangling Brothers proudly presents!

00:00:54.84

Steve Barnes

Except it's not really fun because, I mean, it is fun, but we're friends. They're be like, oh, these are friends and podcast hosts, but we're not, we're not a father and daughter duo, you know? So that kind of, that really adds like some zing to their act, I think.

00:01:09.30

Lindsey Dunn

But if we're in clown makeup and attire, nobody can see what we look like.

00:01:15.13

Steve Barnes

Oh, that's right. They don't, but they won't even know if we're, you know, what gender we are or anything, just silly clowns.

00:01:19.61

Lindsey Dunn

How old we are. i mean, they won't they won't know anything. They won't know Jack. What are you talking about?

00:01:25.82

Steve Barnes

I mean, i think I can come up with a better better ending for our act, though, than a a tombstone. i I don't know if that was the the best closer in the world.

00:01:37.19

Lindsey Dunn

You're getting it. Well, you're getting ahead of yourself, Steve.

00:01:40.57

Steve Barnes

Well, I'm thinking about our act and what I don't want to do.

00:01:40.76

Lindsey Dunn

Or should I? it

00:01:43.25

Steve Barnes

That's all.

00:01:44.57

Lindsey Dunn

OK, well, we can get into that in just a minute. But here so here we are at episode seven.

00:01:50.84

Steve Barnes

Yeah, the black spot.

00:01:51.23

Lindsey Dunn

A black spot. Yes.

00:01:53.30

Steve Barnes

The much a dude black spot.

00:01:53.56

Lindsey Dunn

So.

00:01:55.26

Steve Barnes

Like we've it's, this is like a bit, been a really bad kept secret on the internet, right? Like everybody knew this was going to happen.

00:02:03.54

Lindsey Dunn

Was it a secret?

00:02:05.62

Steve Barnes

no, but I mean, it shouldn't have been like as out in the open as it was that this was going to happen. um Like even like ah it reminded me of game of Thrones once again, of the red wedding, how that was like a famous scene.

00:02:17.98

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:02:18.13

Steve Barnes

that everybody who read the books knew it was coming, but they kind of kept their mouth shut about it so that the people who watched the show could enjoy it for what it's coming up. And, you know, I'm part of a um,

00:02:30.42

Steve Barnes

Another discord, the bald move discord. This leads perfectly into what this one individual said, just like moments ago, his name is Cincinnati Joe on the bald move discord. And he said, first off, he said the downside.

00:02:43.38

Steve Barnes

No, no, not first off. This is the whole point. The downside to listening to podcasts is that I wouldn't have known the black spot would have been burned down. So it made that whole scene less impactful, which I mean,

00:02:58.44

Steve Barnes

That's kind of our fault, Lindsey. We did that to him. We're the podcast he's talking about.

00:03:05.02

Lindsey Dunn

Well, dear, oh dear. well What was this person's name again?

00:03:08.94

Steve Barnes

Cincinnati Joe.

00:03:10.33

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, well, before we talk about cinciti Cincinnati Joe's thoughts about the episode, what was your overall reaction, Steve? Or should I say peanut butter?

00:03:21.96

Steve Barnes

that's right get Get my name right, Poppycock.

00:03:24.15

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:03:24.86

Steve Barnes

What was your name?

00:03:26.60

Lindsey Dunn

Peppercorn.

00:03:27.35

Steve Barnes

pepperpal ah um Well, I mean, it's, I feel like it's kind of obvious here because I really, really enjoyed and loved it. Like I enjoyed the last episode and this one I think was like a really good, um,

00:03:45.70

Steve Barnes

tone setter. I mean, it kind of fit in with the last episode as well. That was a good lead up to this one. Um, I liked the, the single shot, you know, I'm a big sucker for that.

00:03:56.41

Steve Barnes

So anytime you're going to have like a show, that's going to have like one big, like long action shot, I'm always going to be on board. Um, Yeah, I thought that though the one depth death that they gave us this episode wasn't as impactful. It didn't hit me as much as I was hoping it would.

00:04:16.54

Steve Barnes

ah That's my own fault. um Beyond that, like i really liked where we went with this episode and I like what it gave us. It gave us a lot of fun lore to talk about, um at least in my opinion anyway.

00:04:28.92

Steve Barnes

So yeah, I got to pass it back to you then. What are you thinking about this episode?

00:04:34.77

Lindsey Dunn

my feelings about this episode are complicated i will have to say right right so ah the the events of the black spot were wonderful and I mean not wonderful but is tragic wonderfully tragic wonderfully tragic the build up

00:04:38.73

Steve Barnes

Oh, like a Facebook status.

00:04:44.34

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:04:53.02

Steve Barnes

What? Yes.

00:05:00.31

Lindsey Dunn

and how the episode went in that. But I feel like, in a way, the power of the black spot was sort of taken away from us because, in my head, the black spot was the big climax.

00:05:19.10

Lindsey Dunn

But it turns out there's more coming.

00:05:20.02

Steve Barnes

Okay. Right. Yeah.

00:05:23.22

Lindsey Dunn

And I thought, so um I thought that all the crazy stuff was going to go down this week. And we did get the black spot, but there are these other scenes they keep teasing with the patty cakes and all the kids getting swiped, facing down Pennywise.

00:05:40.09

Lindsey Dunn

All of that is yet to happen and it's coming next week. And so it it felt a little bit like the Mushiettes and their team sort of took something away from the black spot to not make that the big hurrah.

00:05:44.79

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:05:57.75

Lindsey Dunn

And We knew that this was going to be the black spot this week. We thought maybe the last week would be reserved for the fallout and kind of the cleanup, rehabilitation afterwards, closing things in as we get ready for season two or sort of, they could have been leaning towards, um you know, what might happen in the, well, we know what will happen in the 80s, you know, in the next cycle.

00:06:26.23

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:06:26.49

Lindsey Dunn

But, that but, There was this great opener for the episode and I'm like i'm intrigued what will happen now, but it feels like they sort of stole from the black spot by not making that the big closer.

00:06:33.72

Steve Barnes

Oh, right.

00:06:47.35

Lindsey Dunn

So i I guess I feel like they took, the the scene itself was powerful and i think, was given a lot a lot of weight. The first time I watched it, I was able to watch it twice. The first time I watched it, I was like, I feel that it wasn't maybe given enough weight.

00:07:09.53

Lindsey Dunn

And now I feel like it was given enough weight, but then there's more coming.

00:07:10.01

Steve Barnes

Interesting.

00:07:14.78

Lindsey Dunn

And i just I just feel like they sort of took something away from it, if that makes sense, what I'm saying. It's like, this isn't actually the big the big, you know, because in our idea in our idea, the augury was over.

00:07:25.08

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:07:28.70

Lindsey Dunn

Pennywise was supposed to go to sleep.

00:07:28.76

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:07:30.94

Lindsey Dunn

But because of the their new plot twist, then there's an actual, like, a bigger climax than even the Black Spot coming.

00:07:34.08

Steve Barnes

hmm. Mm

00:07:38.48

Steve Barnes

hmm.

00:07:40.63

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:07:41.27

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:07:42.65

Steve Barnes

I think, I think that, um, I'm not going to disagree with you or tell you that you're wrong because you're not wrong, that this is your opinion.

00:07:49.72

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:07:50.74

Steve Barnes

But I do think that, um, next week I am very much looking forward to next week because when you asked me later on in this episode, what I think is going to happen next week, I'm going to say, well, now that the black spot has happened and now that there's a bar free that Pennywise can get out,

00:08:08.82

Steve Barnes

and his cycle has been broken just now. um It's kind of up in the air. What's going to happen next week. I think we're about to see like a ah worldwide rollout of Pennywise instead of being trapped in Derry for so long.

00:08:23.93

Steve Barnes

um I think that's kind of how they ended this episode with the anticipation of what's coming is like, he's free from his cage and he's actually not asleep. He woke up.

00:08:36.32

Lindsey Dunn

Well, we're getting ahead of ourselves sort of by talking about next week already. I mean, I know I brought it up, but I know I brought it up, but I'm saying I'm just disappointed that this isn't the big, the big closer.

00:08:40.15

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I know. ah

00:08:49.42

Lindsey Dunn

It's not, there's something else.

00:08:49.91

Steve Barnes

Gotcha.

00:08:51.45

Lindsey Dunn

And I feel like whatever else is happening in the town could have been, could have somehow gone into the black spot. Like all these kids that are from the high school in theory,

00:09:05.24

Lindsey Dunn

if I remember correctly from the books, the lore is that there were white kids at the black spot, a lot more than just one.

00:09:11.88

Steve Barnes

Right. Mm-hmm.

00:09:12.09

Lindsey Dunn

You know, we saw one that you gets talked to, but it's almost like the kids from the school high school could have been at the black spot too, and then Pennywise uses that advantage, blah, blah, blah.

00:09:14.52

Steve Barnes

h

00:09:24.22

Lindsey Dunn

But it it just... I thought this was going to be the big climax, and kind of leading up to this, oh, now he's out of the cage. It... It feels a little confusing because in my estimation or what my analysis or what they've been teasing through the stuff, this cycle is actually less than Pennywise used to be more powerful. The damage that he used to do each cycle is progressively has gotten less over time.

00:09:57.56

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:09:58.29

Lindsey Dunn

So how can he now have worldwide access to being let out of the cage? right before the eighties. It just, it's a little confusing.

00:10:08.73

Steve Barnes

ah can't help but answer that. um You know, we saw what was supposed to be the augury happen. um You know, 23 people dead. He was satiated. He went to sleep.

00:10:19.80

Steve Barnes

But then because the cage was open, he woke back up. Augury is the cycle has been broken. Now. Augury is not done. Now more damage will be done.

00:10:33.27

Steve Barnes

um I don't know. I kind of, I come, I'm kind of excited to see what's going to happen next with that. And I, I feel, I feel like it's, um, it's timed out. Okay. I think that the black spot did dominate this episode, the first half of this episode and yeah It's exciting to see that something that's something big more is going to be happening from that.

00:10:53.98

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, it did take half of the episode. But so where would did where did that thing come from that it was going to be an hour and 40 minutes? like where

00:11:01.88

Steve Barnes

I don't know, Lindsey, you tell me, you told me that.

00:11:03.10

Lindsey Dunn

this

00:11:05.91

Lindsey Dunn

Somebody posted it on the socials, and I guess I just read it.

00:11:08.50

Steve Barnes

Oh man.

00:11:09.95

Lindsey Dunn

Maybe, yeah, just the way that the trailers happened, too.

00:11:10.51

Steve Barnes

Was somebody wrong?

00:11:14.52

Lindsey Dunn

They kept they have these scenes of, like, Leroy and Daniel, and obviously that's coming next week.

00:11:19.88

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:11:20.50

Lindsey Dunn

bringing more of Tanyal and Rose back into the fold. I just, I feel like the way that they built up the black spot, I just thought it was going to be the all encompassing thing. And now it's not, there's something else coming.

00:11:34.04

Lindsey Dunn

That's going to be even greater.

00:11:36.08

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:11:37.21

Lindsey Dunn

so I just, I didn't like that. I don't like that.

00:11:39.80

Steve Barnes

Okay. All right.

00:11:40.50

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:11:40.64

Steve Barnes

Well, we're coming at this with, with different, perspectives and different attitudes. It looks like, cause I'm, I'm pretty giddy with excitement and now I liked where this, with where this, ah where this left me.

00:11:46.55

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:11:52.02

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, don't don't get me wrong. I liked the, I mean, i like I'm excited too about next week. I just thought that this was supposed to be the big episode.

00:12:02.71

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:12:03.10

Lindsey Dunn

And it turns out it's actually next week.

00:12:03.90

Steve Barnes

Winter fire. Maybe winter fire will be the episode. That's going to be, hour and 40 minutes. And if it's not, then you can go back to that person who wrote that and tell them that they were wrong and you can give them a lot of frowny face emojis.

00:12:22.42

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. I will have my emojis ready. ah All right. So before we go into characters, we have space here. We have a spot we can talk about feedback or Easter eggs. So what would you like to do?

00:12:39.13

Steve Barnes

Yeah, let's do um a couple of Easter eggs here. um I'm going to get us started with the most obvious one, I think. And so it leads to a little bit of something funny that I saw. The Easter egg that I saw was Andy Muschietti once more playing a role in the circus.

00:12:57.40

Steve Barnes

He played like a musician early on in the episode. And I saw like an Instagram reel that... showed every time Andy Muschietti had shoved himself in the background of a camera of his own work. And he does it a lot apparently. So, you know, this is just another notch in his belt to throw himself in front of the camera.

00:13:19.90

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I only have one more Easter egg besides that one. So I'll say my one and then you can say anything else you had.

00:13:23.21

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:13:26.97

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:13:28.28

Lindsey Dunn

ah When Bob Gray and Ingrid are in their trailer putting on makeup, he mentions the Santini brothers.

00:13:32.72

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:13:37.53

Lindsey Dunn

And It's not really an Easter egg, probably, but I did think it was good that the Santini brothers is actually mentioned in the book It.

00:13:37.69

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:13:50.04

Lindsey Dunn

So it's mentioned that that was the name of the circus that Pennywise was in So he's not just spitting off random facts.

00:13:51.86

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:13:58.55

Lindsey Dunn

It's canon that the circus was presented by the Santini brothers.

00:14:03.90

Steve Barnes

No, that's a 100% legitimate Easter egg because I didn't catch that. And now I just did through the power of podcasts. So thanks for that Kitchener Ironwork Easter egg.

00:14:15.31

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:14:15.40

Steve Barnes

That was a good one.

00:14:16.06

Lindsey Dunn

who

00:14:16.82

Steve Barnes

Um, yeah, we, we can't get out of this circus here. My next Easter egg is also in the circus. Um, Pennywise is doing the classic dancing Pennywise dance that he does where he does his little feet thing. Um, so i thought that was cool. Definitely a callback to the movie. Cause that's where that became popular.

00:14:35.51

Steve Barnes

And even the little kids that jumped on stage were doing the Pennywise. So it's going to like a new dance, like flossing or whatever.

00:14:44.92

Lindsey Dunn

I know it's gonna be the new Fortnite dance.

00:14:47.19

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's it. And then I only have one other one that really stuck out to me. And that was a um ah quote from another Stephen King work, The Storm of the Century. um When the Clint Bowers came in and he said, give us what we want and we go away. It's a direct line for line quote. when the evil bad guy that was holding hostages in the Storm of the Century said the exact same thing.

00:15:15.70

Steve Barnes

So I think that was a nod to Stephen King for sure.

00:15:19.29

Lindsey Dunn

So um I heard that mentioned on a different podcast today.

00:15:24.38

Steve Barnes

Oh.

00:15:24.98

Lindsey Dunn

and I thought it was, i thought it was sort of funny because the line itself, even if it is a quote from this book, the line ah actually is, seems pretty trope-ish.

00:15:34.08

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:15:38.34

Lindsey Dunn

I feel like, I feel like that kind of a line has probably been said in many movies before, give us what we want, you'll go, and this will go away.

00:15:38.55

Steve Barnes

Yes. Yes. ah

00:15:45.50

Lindsey Dunn

so I was like, I don't think it's that unique, but, Sure.

00:15:50.99

Steve Barnes

It's, I mean, it's not, but I mean, again, pivotal, pivotal lines sit at a pivotal moment by a pivotal bad guy to a room full of people. Um, you know,

00:15:58.71

Lindsey Dunn

Right. It's just a plain white egg, but it's still an egg.

00:16:03.58

Steve Barnes

It's come on. It's got a little pink stripe around it. see it's definitely an Easter egg.

00:16:10.36

Lindsey Dunn

Oh boy.

00:16:12.63

Steve Barnes

Yeah, but that's that's all we got. Didn't get a whole lot this week because so much other big stuff is happening. Like the black spots on an Easter egg. Ingrid being revealed is not an Easter egg.

00:16:23.51

Steve Barnes

Stanley the Cleaver is not an Easter egg necessarily. I mean, there's a lot of things that could be Easter eggs, but they're part of our main story. And we'll be talking about them all.

00:16:33.92

Lindsey Dunn

Yep. And just know that I actually have a section he cleaved out at the end for the black spot itself, like the way it was filmed.

00:16:45.34

Lindsey Dunn

So we can save that for the end. Yeah.

00:16:48.28

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:16:49.26

Lindsey Dunn

We're going to talk about our characters right now. So our first group is actually a square instead of a triangle.

00:16:59.10

Steve Barnes

Yeah, like this.

00:17:00.98

Lindsey Dunn

It's sort of a it that's sort of a ah crooked or an off-balance square because one of the one of the points is less important than everybody else. But we have Ingrid slash Periwinkle, Bob Gray, Pennywise.

00:17:13.30

Steve Barnes

I disagree.

00:17:18.37

Lindsey Dunn

so we're going to actually talk about Bob Gray as separate from Pennywise or or separate from our entity. And then Urchin Boy, actually there's five, sorry, because I didn't have that before. Bob Gray and Pennywise, the Urchin Boy, and Stan Kirsch.

00:17:35.93

Lindsey Dunn

So it's actually like a parallel, a trapezoid.

00:17:35.96

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:17:38.97

Steve Barnes

Well, not, not really because Bob Gray is his own person, but Pennywise slash urchin boy is kind of the same entity.

00:17:48.66

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, fair enough.

00:17:50.42

Steve Barnes

And ah first I want to ask you, i mean, ask you because you know, you're smart, you're a librarian and I didn't bother to look this up. People call, um, young kids in this age, urchins. Isn't urchin like a type of animal? Is that where that comes from? Or is that just a term for a street kid?

00:18:08.30

Lindsey Dunn

I've never heard it used for a animal before it could be an animal I did not look that up I just saw the name urchin this is the same thing as As maybe, i when I think of Urchin, the first thing I think of is Oliver Twist.

00:18:12.09

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:18:18.25

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. That's what they called them.

00:18:25.43

Steve Barnes

Exactly. Yes. and This is a little evil Oliver twist coming out and saying more.

00:18:32.02

Lindsey Dunn

yes

00:18:32.76

Steve Barnes

no he's not saying more. He's saying, please. Anyway.

00:18:35.42

Lindsey Dunn

it

00:18:38.10

Lindsey Dunn

So where do you want to start with this with this fun little group here?

00:18:41.62

Steve Barnes

ah Yeah, let's start right at the beginning. Like this is a pretty big day in the circus here. Like we, the birth of Perry Winkle and the death of Bob Gray, like happens on like the very same day.

00:18:56.97

Lindsey Dunn

That's true. um So yeah, and we could we could start by saying that we see get to see more about Periwinkle and her life with her father at the circus.

00:19:08.82

Lindsey Dunn

The good old

00:19:09.08

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:19:11.13

Lindsey Dunn

That he she's helping him with his act when she's a kid. And she

00:19:17.11

Steve Barnes

Yeah, she's the Foley artist back there.

00:19:19.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, the Foley artist, or you could say she's the one pulling the levers. She's the one helping with the props. She's pushing the tombstone out. I mean, there was another dude that's helping with some stuff too.

00:19:31.62

Lindsey Dunn

And of course, we have Andy Buscietti back there helping with the music, the music man.

00:19:35.80

Steve Barnes

The music man. Yeah.

00:19:38.52

Lindsey Dunn

and But this is this is a pretty elaborate show that he set up.

00:19:41.78

Steve Barnes

Very.

00:19:43.17

Lindsey Dunn

We've got flowers.

00:19:43.29

Steve Barnes

Yeah. i Put a lot of work into that.

00:19:44.33

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:46.60

Steve Barnes

There's a little animals he's got set up there. And like his whole story has like this arc to like where, you know, these are the animals that he's trying to kill. And then he like, you know, he finds his wife deceased and then he mourns her with, ah we talked, I talked about this earlier. How's it, that's a terrible like setting for a kid's performance, but it's like he makes it work somehow because like he's at his wife's grave and he's crying.

00:20:13.73

Steve Barnes

But then one of the beavers from the first act comes up and, you know, I guess is like a mournful pallbearer or something and gives him a little burst of joy.

00:20:25.72

Lindsey Dunn

I think is but it's to say it's the same gopher.

00:20:28.02

Steve Barnes

ah

00:20:30.06

Lindsey Dunn

it's He's just a mischievous gopher that is taking all the flowers before before Pennywise can take the flowers. the gopher intervenes, but when he sees him crying and upset, then he has he has a change of heart and decides to give him those flowers.

00:20:44.89

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:20:48.15

Steve Barnes

ah

00:20:51.45

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, it's kind of a macabre show that he's put together here.

00:20:53.78

Steve Barnes

Very.

00:20:54.97

Lindsey Dunn

But it reminded me of when they used to do Punch and Judy shows. A lot of those were pretty macabre, where you'd have a husband and wife.

00:21:02.50

Steve Barnes

Oh.

00:21:04.32

Lindsey Dunn

Punch and Judy, the little puppets, it was always those two were going at it. They were a married couple, a married puppet couple. And, ah you know, the the woman would be or the man would be throttling the wife's neck and then the other one would chop the other's head off. so So these kind of circus acts or children's acts have always had sort of a dark twist to them. I guess they know that kids like that kind of stuff.

00:21:32.98

Steve Barnes

Yeah. i said earlier that like the end of this, the end of his little act was like him sitting at her grave with the, with the beaver or what gopher, but that's not quite right.

00:21:41.18

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:21:42.26

Steve Barnes

Um, he does have a kind of a big ending where he comes out and he does the Pennywise dance. And that's when the kids rush on the stage and they're doing the Pennywise dance too.

00:21:47.13

Lindsey Dunn

right

00:21:51.80

Steve Barnes

His wig falls off a few times and Ingrid laughs at him when that happens. And when she's talking to him backstage, And before she reveals herself, they're just kind of chit chatting or whatever.

00:22:04.54

Steve Barnes

Yeah. You got the sense that they had like a nice relationship, that he was a good, sad dad, basically like and and a nice, sad dad, um, that kind of drowns his sorrows and alcohol.

00:22:16.98

Steve Barnes

And she reveals, yeah. Like, she's like, I'm like you dad, I'm, I'm a clown too. And he's impressed immediately. He like,

00:22:25.32

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:22:25.94

Steve Barnes

you know, immediately is impressed. And there's that one moment where they kind of get a little, little mistful because he gives her the name that his wife had. And I guess that means a lot to her. um Well, I mean, she's going to carry this day with her for the rest of her life, obviously, because, you know, i don't think she ever, I don't know if she ever got a chance to be Perry Winkle. I assume she did um go on to continue doing that.

00:22:51.93

Steve Barnes

Maybe not. I don't know. We'll find out later, but, this This definitely like you know it led her on a path that the path ended ah today. like When we saw the black spots, we're seeing like a big chapter of hers.

00:23:09.59

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, her dreams have have died at this point. um But yeah, the what did you think of that when the kids rioted on stage? it was I was thinking, oh my gosh, these kids are going to hurt this guy.

00:23:25.53

Lindsey Dunn

And it didn't seem like Pennywise bob slash Bob Gray was necessarily that happy about these kids coming on stage and stealing the wig and and they you know they sort of interrupted his show and I wondered if this was a usual ah usual thing that happens because the kids like him so much so he gets them all wound up or if it's just the children of Derry that this happens with

00:23:52.08

Steve Barnes

I think it was bad security that day. Honestly, I think there was supposed to be somebody, some carny up there that was supposed to, you know, kind of keep, kind of keep the kids in line and, you know, tell the kids what to do.

00:23:59.71

Lindsey Dunn

hmm

00:24:03.69

Steve Barnes

Like, well, you know what i'm saying? Like there's usually like somebody that's kind of like in charge of that kind of thing, a stage manager type.

00:24:07.26

Lindsey Dunn

no

00:24:10.74

Steve Barnes

And I think that they weren't around. Maybe that guy at the beginning introduced them was supposed to hold the kids back. I don't think that's normally what happens. And I think it's, I think it's that occurrence. I think it's a, um you know, one of those kismet occurrences because this is when the urchin boy is watching him and he sees all the kids rush on stage.

00:24:31.64

Steve Barnes

And that's when he has, it has the idea like, oh, if I put on that clown costume and do that dance, all the kids will come running to me. So, you know, I think that's what, I mean, that's what I got from it anyway. Like, I didn't really think much about like the logic of the situation. i was just like, that's, you know, this is where Pennywise is getting his ideas.

00:24:54.36

Lindsey Dunn

Right. It's the genesis of him using this form.

00:24:57.31

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:24:57.68

Lindsey Dunn

But I also thought it was it was just kind of interesting that the kids sort of went wild.

00:24:58.01

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:25:03.78

Lindsey Dunn

And in a way, I wondered if the entity was like, oh, these kids

00:25:10.23

Steve Barnes

Oh.

00:25:10.42

Lindsey Dunn

deserve what they get because look how wild they are. And the, cause it, it, it just struck me that usually when we think of kids, the way that they've been depicted in the universe, the kids are sweet.

00:25:14.76

Steve Barnes

Oh. Okay.

00:25:25.06

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, they, they have obviously tendencies, things they do, like they curse, they sneak out of their parents' house, but they're in general, they're, they're portrayed as,

00:25:39.22

Lindsey Dunn

as innocent beings, like they're they're things that are good that we want to protect.

00:25:43.10

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:25:44.19

Lindsey Dunn

And in this case, we had these kids sort of mobbing the stage. And also the fact that you have, we've usually seen Pennywise luring kids in, and here we have a kid luring in Bob Gray.

00:25:55.64

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:25:58.09

Lindsey Dunn

So it's kind of reverse psychology here. Mm-hmm.

00:26:01.69

Steve Barnes

Sure, but but think about where we are. We're at Derry right now. And the water is contaminated and it's not any time in Derry because 27 years of peace that happens every 27 years. And that's what the, um, the, the, the native Americans told us, like, you know, now there's going to be peace. That's what Shaw said. Now there's going to be peace. Now the augury happened. This is 1908.

00:26:26.90

Steve Barnes

And there, and there was a thing that's about to happen. Um, it's, it's a peak year for it to be feeding. So yes, the kids are acting out of hand because of that. I think, I think it's like feeding time, feeding frenzy time.

00:26:44.02

Lindsey Dunn

we also have sort of though a kind of double or multiple multiple personality here with Bob Gray he's one way in front of his daughter but in private he's a different way he sort of portrays himself as optimistic he tells her

00:26:55.70

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:27:00.89

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:27:05.85

Lindsey Dunn

luck is just around the corner. I'm going to be back in the saddle again. He doesn't say that exactly, but he kind of says he has hope and that he thinks things are going to go better.

00:27:16.62

Lindsey Dunn

But then when he's in the back drinking with his wig off, he looks really unhappy.

00:27:21.53

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:27:24.09

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:27:24.18

Lindsey Dunn

And, gra you know, even that kid says, will you help me? And he's like, no way, kid, get away from me.

00:27:30.70

Steve Barnes

That's what he says, yeah.

00:27:30.74

Lindsey Dunn

it's

00:27:32.89

Steve Barnes

ah

00:27:32.92

Lindsey Dunn

and he does help him, but he's,

00:27:34.90

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:27:35.66

Lindsey Dunn

He's obviously either an already an alcoholic or he's on his way. So it seemed like it gets into that, how sometimes parents feel like they have to put on a good act in front of their kids or, you know, be one way, but they might have different a different face when they're in private.

00:27:39.83

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:27:52.25

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:27:55.12

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:27:55.74

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I mean, this guy is down. I mean, yeah, he he's used to the big crowds and he's on a roadside circus now and his wife is dead and yeah, he's depressed.

00:28:05.94

Steve Barnes

And this kid comes up and the kid is leering at him and he's like, scram kid, get out of here. i don't think that's anything unusual or like um out of the ordinary.

00:28:12.17

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:28:16.09

Steve Barnes

I think that makes him very human. It makes our Bob Gray a very human person. um You know, nice to his daughter. He's not going to drink and you know, be crappy around her, which I think says, you know, ah a decent thing about his character.

00:28:31.00

Steve Barnes

And, um, speaking of the urchin boy, the last thing I really had about this whole thing was like the urchin boy only went as far as he could. Like he couldn't, he came to the edge of the woods. He couldn't go beyond and much further than he did. He had to lure, um, Bob gray into the woods because of the, uh, pillars, I guess.

00:28:55.84

Lindsey Dunn

Right, he had to sort of come on the on the edge of town. And boy, they did a great job. i was trying to figure out who this kid was.

00:29:05.23

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:29:05.45

Lindsey Dunn

He's, it's, um let's say, Oliver Curtin. I was like, this must be a famous kid. He has hardly any, because I thought he did a fantastic job.

00:29:13.85

Steve Barnes

why

00:29:17.42

Lindsey Dunn

i was like, boy, his like his delivery of his lines, his his eye,

00:29:18.42

Steve Barnes

ah

00:29:26.02

Lindsey Dunn

movements, he looked a lot like the entity does. So I was like, I mean, I did not give him my MVP, but I almost considered it because I was just like, this kid is going places. Oliver Curtin, he did a great job. The creepy person that lures Bob Gray to his death.

00:29:47.42

Steve Barnes

Has he been in anything else?

00:29:48.76

Lindsey Dunn

No. he's I mean, he's been in a couple of things. He's been in The Boys. He was in like The Boys for some scene.

00:29:56.57

Steve Barnes

Okay. Let's, you know, that's cool. I mean, yeah, keep an eye on this guy. He's got a cool name too, Oliver Curtin.

00:30:00.22

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

00:30:02.22

Steve Barnes

You're not going to forget that. Like when me and James were doing um Time Bandits, there was one episode where they were like in the Mayan culture and there was a Mayan ah queen.

00:30:03.51

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:30:13.50

Steve Barnes

And the actress that played her was just such a natural. She was just so funny. Her line delivery was great. And it just seemed like she was just... I was like, you know, i got, I got to see what else she's been in. And this was like her very first like speaking role she ever had on anything was on what we saw her. So I think just some people just have like a natural talent, like from the get go. That's like undeniable. Maybe this kid has it for you.

00:30:41.94

Lindsey Dunn

So then once the we then see the circus people going up, he's been drugged by wolves or whatever. And they bring they bring Ingrid, the handkerchief of her father labeled RG for Robert Gray.

00:30:50.30

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:30:54.58

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:30:59.51

Steve Barnes

Right. It was nasty. Why did they give that to her?

00:31:01.98

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:31:05.78

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. Something to remember, Papa Bye.

00:31:09.14

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Rinse it out first. I mean, that was terrible.

00:31:12.31

Lindsey Dunn

that would be removing evidence.

00:31:12.47

Steve Barnes

and Like that too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. ah

00:31:18.84

Lindsey Dunn

um Okay. So then moving forward a little bit to the black spot, we got to keep with this with this group. So we see them at the beginning.

00:31:27.35

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:31:28.89

Lindsey Dunn

Then we go over to the black spot. And now we have Pennywise shows up at the black spot to feed off the chaos. And he doesn't really eat that many people that we see.

00:31:43.86

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, there could he could have had more digestion going on than it's on the camera. But I saw somebody in the group made a joke that he ate two people and went and took a nap.

00:31:50.30

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:31:54.61

Lindsey Dunn

you know that's how They're like, that was that was supposed to be the big deal. But here he just He ate two people and took a nap.

00:32:02.71

Steve Barnes

Well, that's true. But then like, um, when we see him in his lair, like later on the episode, he's like surrounded, like encased in bodies and blood. So I think he, I think he like eats a little bit of snack, like an appetizer during the event. And then he takes all the rest of it home for like the big meal and dessert later. i think that's how that works out.

00:32:23.22

Steve Barnes

ah But yeah, the way they meet up is yes, we, we were right. It was Ingrid that made that phone call to tip off the police. And, She's surprised. um She shows up because she wants to see Pennywise and they get that reunion, but she's surprised by Stanley there. Well, she's not really surprised. She doesn't seem surprised at all.

00:32:44.55

Lindsey Dunn

No.

00:32:44.63

Steve Barnes

um I guess she maybe knew that Pennywise was going was going to slice off his head perhaps, or that's what she was hoping would happen.

00:32:54.07

Lindsey Dunn

ah Okay. i it okay i yeah she he She did not seem surprised that or disappointed that Stan went out the way he did.

00:33:02.55

Steve Barnes

Oh no, not disappointed at all.

00:33:03.32

Lindsey Dunn

so

00:33:04.82

Steve Barnes

ah

00:33:05.04

Lindsey Dunn

She's just like, hello, Papa. And then she's just excited. All she cares about is seeing her father again.

00:33:14.01

Steve Barnes

i mean, I was excited too. This is a, this is a really neat scene. um You know, Stan gives her a little bit of business, like go home and take that stuff off your face and make my dinner again.

00:33:24.65

Steve Barnes

um

00:33:24.97

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:33:25.88

Steve Barnes

and he gets a cleaver. That's very, you know, Again, very kismet that he got chopped with a cleaver. And did you catch the radio, the radio host that was and later on talking about the tragedy of this speakeasy, this, um, speaking illegal speakeasy and some fine citizens from town, including Stanley Kirsch, like her publicly drove in to like save the day.

00:33:44.89

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:33:53.14

Steve Barnes

So Stanley does a hero, right?

00:33:54.01

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Oh, boy.

00:33:57.43

Steve Barnes

ah

00:33:57.78

Lindsey Dunn

but Yep, yep. I guess he, and also he's he's complimented for the way he would slice the meat. I can't remember what the guy said, but he said nobody could braise a pork chop like you or something like that.

00:34:09.53

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:34:13.53

Steve Barnes

Nobody could butter a brisket the way.

00:34:15.73

Lindsey Dunn

yes Yeah, yeah.

00:34:17.08

Steve Barnes

i don't know

00:34:19.26

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, so he we he gets a good he gets a good death, though.

00:34:19.45

Steve Barnes

the

00:34:23.50

Lindsey Dunn

he's But yeah, I mean, Ingrid didn't seem surprised or disappointed that Stan went out this way.

00:34:31.19

Steve Barnes

She didn't seem surprised that, um, that her dad started eating Stanley's head either. I would think that would be an immediate turnoff. Um, she didn't, you know, that wasn't an immediate turnoff though. Cause she gave him a hug after that.

00:34:45.40

Steve Barnes

What must it be like to hug Pennywise?

00:34:45.53

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:49.08

Lindsey Dunn

And yeah, because i was, I figured, and it wasn't, yeah, because it's not until later that she says, you're not my father. And I was thinking, what gave that away?

00:35:01.05

Lindsey Dunn

Because, like, what did he do to finally make you understand that? Yeah.

00:35:08.50

Steve Barnes

It was built, it was built up in the dialogue. It really made sense in the moment because the way the dialogue, um, progressed, like she eventually figured out it wasn't him, but it was, he did seem like him though, because he asked her to do the bow and the horn thing, which is so funny.

00:35:25.59

Steve Barnes

Like she does the bow and then that pathetic horn goes, but booh and then,

00:35:30.30

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Did you notice that she's out of practice with the horn? Because she did it pretty good at the beginning of the episode when she's a child, but maybe she hasn't played it.

00:35:39.70

Steve Barnes

I disagree. Both times it was like the same, like comedic, because I think it's supposed to be a comedic horn that's supposed to sound pathetic like that. And that's like part of the joke, but I don't know.

00:35:52.47

Steve Barnes

Pennywise like clapped and said she did a good job and laughed at the right parts.

00:35:53.90

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:35:57.86

Steve Barnes

So like, yeah, he played off like he was Bob gray for a bit there until, you know, he started being a little creepy and talking about stuff a little too much.

00:35:58.20

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:36:05.56

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, I think he... I think that when he said she did good, it wasn't anything to do with the clown act. It was about getting everybody together at the black spot, planning this social event that she did.

00:36:15.96

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:36:19.61

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:36:22.94

Steve Barnes

Yes. But that's the first thing she said to him was like, I wanted you to tell me that I did good.

00:36:28.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:36:28.91

Steve Barnes

And so he did tell her that she did good. So like, you know, she did good.

00:36:32.60

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:36:33.63

Steve Barnes

You did good, Ingrid.

00:36:35.35

Lindsey Dunn

um but But then they have a disagreement where he's like, I'm going to sleep.

00:36:39.14

Steve Barnes

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:36:41.68

Lindsey Dunn

And she grabs his arm. And then he catches her in the deadlights.

00:36:44.06

Steve Barnes

That's when she realizes that's when she realizes, yes, the whole sleep thing. That's when she like kind of clues in and figures it out and gets upset. And yeah, Pennywise does do the dead light thing and he like hypnotizes her.

00:37:00.50

Steve Barnes

Now when Pennywise or it, we should say, does the dead lights, It can either kill you or it can hypnotize you, or it can put you like in a catatonic state. It's kind of unclear what it's going to do.

00:37:14.38

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:37:14.87

Steve Barnes

Um, so in Ingrid's case, um, well, before I get to that, the really, what I wanted to ask you was something that Heather said, because I was watching this with my wife had, I was watching this with my wife, Heather, of course.

00:37:29.62

Steve Barnes

And she's, when the show was over, she was like, yeah, I really liked the way that like his face opened up like the Demi Gorgon and stranger things. Is she, is Heather right? Is that like a stranger things thing that happens?

00:37:44.89

Steve Barnes

And is that credited to stranger things? Or is this like Steve, or is this like stranger things copying an existing Stephen King thing?

00:37:54.31

Lindsey Dunn

Look, pretty much all of Stranger Things is copied off of Stephen King's universe.

00:38:00.41

Steve Barnes

Okay. but

00:38:02.82

Lindsey Dunn

But, you know, I don't remember Demi Gorgon's heads opening up. um I could be wrong. I don't always look at the manner in which people's murders take place.

00:38:17.85

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:38:17.88

Lindsey Dunn

It's like, it's a monster, it's a beast.

00:38:18.37

Steve Barnes

yeah Oh, you had your eyes. That's why. Okay. Yes, I get it.

00:38:23.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:38:23.45

Steve Barnes

I do that too.

00:38:24.98

Lindsey Dunn

i Well, I don't always hide my eyes, but sometimes like I said, these shows to me sometimes blend together.

00:38:31.70

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:38:32.25

Lindsey Dunn

But one thing I will never say is that anything Stephen King did copied Stranger Things because it's the total opposite.

00:38:42.94

Lindsey Dunn

Stranger Things, so much of this episode especially, i thought the way that he catches her in the deadlights and then she floats up

00:38:43.24

Steve Barnes

That's what I thought too.

00:38:52.59

Lindsey Dunn

It looks a lot like when Vecna is hypnotizing somebody.

00:38:55.91

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:38:58.49

Lindsey Dunn

But I think what we what we need to say is that I think it's very unclear when we look at Ingrid Kirsch now what we're looking at. Is this still Ingrid Kirsch as we knew her?

00:39:09.34

Steve Barnes

Right, exactly.

00:39:13.59

Lindsey Dunn

Is she still the daughter? Or is she now, has Ingrid actually been killed and this is a Pennywise special, special event.

00:39:26.78

Lindsey Dunn

Because it was interesting that that woman, the woman that was outside just starts laughing.

00:39:26.97

Steve Barnes

Right, yes.

00:39:32.92

Steve Barnes

Right, exactly.

00:39:33.72

Lindsey Dunn

Now that's something that when people go through trauma, you know, that's sometimes what people do, they laugh inappropriately.

00:39:41.75

Steve Barnes

That was my first thought, right.

00:39:43.10

Lindsey Dunn

Right. But the way that Ingrid's kind of looking at this creature, and I'm sure they're going to reveal next episode,

00:39:48.00

Steve Barnes

hmm.

00:39:51.03

Lindsey Dunn

if Mrs. Kirsch was still around. but it But looking at this did make me think back to Beverly because in it the It movies, the Muschietti It movies, ah Beverly is taken by It at one point.

00:39:53.17

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:40:09.40

Lindsey Dunn

And i don't I don't think this is in the books this the same way. I think this might've been something they had in the movies. The Losers Club has sort of broken up and Beverly ends up being,

00:40:21.34

Lindsey Dunn

ah taken by Pennywise and that's why the like rest of the Losers Club goes down to get her but it is kind of interesting how she has this complicated father-daughter relationship and so it kind of it made it made me think about Beverly seeing this happen to Ingrid because in the movies Beverly is caught in the deadlights but she's not immediately killed

00:40:22.95

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. As bait.

00:40:37.24

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:40:45.52

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:40:51.61

Lindsey Dunn

She's being kept, like you said, as bait. But when Pennywise catches her in the deadlights, why does he do that? Because he could have eaten her.

00:41:02.17

Lindsey Dunn

he he it looked like he was about to enjoy a snack.

00:41:03.45

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:41:05.99

Lindsey Dunn

he was he was When she hugged him, he was sort of he opened his mouth and looked like he was considering it.

00:41:09.09

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:41:14.78

Steve Barnes

Right. I can't answer that. The deadlights is, I'm sorry, the,

00:41:19.06

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:41:22.84

Steve Barnes

You froze up, so I started talking. Were you in the middle of talking?

00:41:26.71

Lindsey Dunn

I was not. I was stopping to let you comment.

00:41:32.04

Steve Barnes

Yay! Here we go um I think the deadlights is what it uses when it wants to, um, utilize someone, not as food, utilize them as bait or as a stand in or as a Patsy or et cetera.

00:41:44.10

Lindsey Dunn

OK.

00:41:53.37

Steve Barnes

So, um, you know, when he he puts Ingrid in the deadlights and she does a little floaty thing. So we know that he's going to be using her to some way. He wasn't using her before.

00:42:03.25

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:42:05.02

Steve Barnes

She was doing everything of her own accord, but now she's going to be directly um linked to it. And like when she did like that eye open thing, that that was real creepy. And as she's being wheeled away and I guess she's going to Juniper Hill, that's where you take people who are catatonic and whatever, either to the hospital or Juniper Hill. And she did that eye lock thing with the kids.

00:42:30.87

Steve Barnes

um Yeah. I truly believe that, that, she that she is going to be um like a liaison or like a entity of it, that it's going to be used that when we see her next, we're only going to be seeing like it's version of her, not the actual real live Ingrid.

00:42:50.22

Steve Barnes

That's my suspicion anyway.

00:42:52.60

Lindsey Dunn

Well, didn't even think about the fact that she's probably being taken to Juniper Hill. That's...

00:42:58.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah, mean, that's where she works. I might kill two birds with one stone. She can clean up while she's recovering.

00:43:06.84

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, that's that's very true. So I'm just i'm just curious what they're going to do with her at this point. If Ingrid is... If the Ingrid that we know that we've met in this show is still around or if she's totally a clone.

00:43:22.71

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah, she ain't dead yet.

00:43:24.38

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:43:25.09

Steve Barnes

ha.

00:43:25.72

Lindsey Dunn

um And I guess we've already talked about Stan. He, you know, his public face, he had a public face of acceptance when he meets Charlotte.

00:43:35.73

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:43:37.53

Lindsey Dunn

And we kind of find out it was all an act. We already, we already suspected that. But

00:43:43.51

Steve Barnes

He let that one girl go. he was the, he was the guy that let that girl go when he was like, Hey, what are you doing in this club? You're a nice girl. Get out of here. um that was Stan that did that too.

00:43:51.74

Lindsey Dunn

Bye.

00:43:55.03

Steve Barnes

Um, not that that was a good move or anything like that, but you know, um, just more hints at his character, of what kind of person he is. Um,

00:44:06.74

Steve Barnes

ah I'm still not in love with this Stan guy, especially the way they gave him like this hero's end. Like he went there to like save people. I hate that, that that's how they're going to remember him when we know these guys are all straight up like cold murderers, except for that one dude.

00:44:21.68

Lindsey Dunn

Well, he's...

00:44:23.14

Steve Barnes

I wanted to mention, like we're talking about Stan. when so everybody clears out of there and stands car stalls out, we see that one white dude that like, looks like he's like really appalled at what they have done.

00:44:39.48

Steve Barnes

um he like, seems like the only person that seems to even register that. And I'm not sure why they showed us him. Cause he's just a, you know, a stand background actor, but I just thought it was interesting.

00:44:49.98

Lindsey Dunn

ah he that is ah That is Phil and Susie's dad, Mr. Malkin.

00:44:58.34

Steve Barnes

Oh, it is. Okay.

00:45:00.31

Lindsey Dunn

So i didn't... ah You know, he was the one that said I'm not leaving until I know that Hank is dead. So i didn't i didn't I didn't think of it necessarily as full-out regret, but I i think that...

00:45:11.99

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:45:17.72

Steve Barnes

okay okay

00:45:20.02

Lindsey Dunn

I think there is a level of regret. And what I took from that is is kind of the fact that, you know, we know that there's the augury and that people are under a increased level of aggression.

00:45:36.86

Lindsey Dunn

So perhaps after a while, it sort of wears off and then you're like, wait, what happened? um

00:45:43.51

Steve Barnes

o

00:45:43.96

Lindsey Dunn

But that's real life. People get You know, people get in the moment can get rat wound up doing something and then they're not necessarily acting as they would.

00:45:55.61

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:45:58.50

Lindsey Dunn

or I think it but i the way I looked at it is, remember how we talked about um Vincent Chin and how that guy, that white person just killed him with a baseball bat.

00:46:16.22

Lindsey Dunn

you wouldn't think, and the judge said, this is not the kind of man that you send to prison.

00:46:16.57

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:46:22.88

Steve Barnes

Sure. Okay.

00:46:23.61

Lindsey Dunn

Right? And it so people do these things and you think, I could never do something like that. But here he participated because he got wound up. He got into the right mood for it.

00:46:33.69

Steve Barnes

sure

00:46:36.31

Lindsey Dunn

And I think he's coming down from the adrenaline of that. And yeah, probably that's what you're seeing.

00:46:41.75

Steve Barnes

okay

00:46:44.34

Lindsey Dunn

he's He's a little bit he's a little bit mortified at what he's done and not to the point though, where he's going to turn himself in,

00:46:55.58

Lindsey Dunn

you know?

00:46:55.93

Steve Barnes

Okay. Yeah, I thought it was worth mentioning. And it's really interesting knowing that he's, um you know, those kids' parents. So I'm kid's dad. So yeah, I'm glad i'm glad I brought it up then.

00:47:06.74

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, I, I was, I was hoping at least somebody would say, Hey, there's kids in there.

00:47:14.14

Steve Barnes

Exactly.

00:47:16.89

Lindsey Dunn

You know, the the idea was they wanted to kill, they wanted to get vengeance on Hank Grogan.

00:47:24.06

Steve Barnes

Yeah, only Hank.

00:47:25.88

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:47:25.88

Steve Barnes

if they had if they If Hank had like given up and they had strong-armed Hank out of there, then I guess they wouldn't have burned the place down. Then the augury would not have happened. And so then another tragedy probably would have happened in that case.

00:47:41.21

Steve Barnes

Another little game of what if.

00:47:42.84

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Okay, let's, go to our next group.

00:47:47.42

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:47:48.71

Lindsey Dunn

We've got Rich, Marge, and Lily.

00:47:52.43

Steve Barnes

The kids...

00:47:53.34

Lindsey Dunn

The Knight, the Pirate, and Gollum.

00:47:57.14

Steve Barnes

And yeah, exactly. That's okay. Yeah. Let's start with her because she doesn't do a whole lot this episode.

00:48:07.10

Lindsey Dunn

Right, I just didn't know where to put her, to be honest with you.

00:48:09.02

Steve Barnes

Yeah. That's, this is a great place to talk about her. Yeah. Gollum is correct because. You know, we saw her acting Gollum ish last episode, but this episode was even more so we're like, her dog was scared of her. Did you notice that?

00:48:24.90

Lindsey Dunn

there's something There was something up with the dog. I couldn't tell if it was fear or if the dog was more worried about his owner and he could something off with her.

00:48:27.26

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:48:33.34

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:48:35.03

Lindsey Dunn

Maybe it was, you know, when my when I'm anxious, my cat, they tell me, my cat can feel it.

00:48:43.42

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:48:44.02

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:48:44.95

Steve Barnes

i think he was, I mean, the minute the door was able to be open and he he could get out, that dog ran out. So I do think it was scared. Yeah. And I do think that she had like, it's interesting you say Gollum, because I made that comment to someone ah in that same bald move discord.

00:49:01.62

Steve Barnes

Is that like, she went from being like a part-time Gollum to like a full-time Gollum this episode. because She's like all gray looking too. And like, she has that same grayish look that Maddie had.

00:49:10.20

Lindsey Dunn

you

00:49:13.88

Steve Barnes

so I'm kind of curious to see what's going to be happening next episode with Lily. I mean, I guess it's the, it's gotta be the dagger doing this to her. Cause she did not get caught in no dead lights.

00:49:26.52

Steve Barnes

We did. We definitely did not see any dead lights happen with her and it didn't happen off screen.

00:49:27.29

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:49:31.83

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, she's she's not looking well.

00:49:32.15

Steve Barnes

So.

00:49:34.81

Lindsey Dunn

At least her mother is Mrs. Bainbridge. seems a little more concerned. She's, yeah, she's kind of more, a little more in tune this week, but it, I was kind of interested how, when she showed up, when the girls showed up, Marge and Ronnie, when they showed up to tell her about Rich, I was wondering how she would react if she would be like, why should I care about you?

00:49:41.50

Steve Barnes

little bit. Yeah.

00:50:01.54

Lindsey Dunn

And I said, I'm crazy, you know, but she, she did say, oh no, what what happened. So she's at least for the moment able to relate with her friends and to feel something for them.

00:50:17.82

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:50:18.52

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, she looks really ill and ah obviously it's it's the Shard doing this and yeah, I'm still hoping that somehow she'll be able to give it to Rose or Tanyal.

00:50:20.95

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:50:33.08

Steve Barnes

Yeah, she better. um And she does seem like quote unquote okay because we even see her past this scene. We see her like up in the standpipe later on, you know, helping clear out Rich's stuff.

00:50:47.66

Steve Barnes

So like the last time we see Lily, she's in the midst of a group hug with her other gal pals. So we know that, you know, she's more or less okay.

00:50:54.14

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:50:59.51

Lindsey Dunn

Right. yeah I don't think I have anything i don't anything else really to say about her.

00:51:00.76

Steve Barnes

Even though she doesn't seem it.

00:51:05.85

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, I do. you know We've seen the trailer. She's with the group. So hopefully she'll snap out of whatever's going on.

00:51:19.16

Steve Barnes

Or maybe she'll, so maybe she'll like, I don't know, maybe she'll become like a portal of good somehow and um become like the stuttering bill of our story and like face it head on somehow.

00:51:32.52

Steve Barnes

Cause she's got this dagger and she's got this power and she looks gray.

00:51:33.91

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:51:37.64

Steve Barnes

I don't know.

00:51:38.10

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking since they didn't really use her at the black spot, she will have some sort of majorte major part in this last episode.

00:51:43.99

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:51:48.46

Lindsey Dunn

She'll have her moment.

00:51:48.47

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:51:51.51

Steve Barnes

Yeah. And it seems like she's like the, it seemed like they were kind of building her up to be like the leader of the group, like the main person of this group. And she definitely was not this episode.

00:52:00.76

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:52:02.58

Steve Barnes

Um, and yeah, you didn't put Will in with this group. You put him with his parents. I think also because Will didn't do a whole lot. I think a lot of the action hinged on, um, Marge and Rich this episode.

00:52:17.59

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he's got he's got his moment at the end of the episode. But yeah, let's let's talk about Rich and Marge.

00:52:21.11

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:52:24.11

Lindsey Dunn

We've got the Titanic situation again.

00:52:26.10

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:52:27.64

Lindsey Dunn

Could Jack and Rose, could Jack have been on the raft?

00:52:27.82

Steve Barnes

That's what I wrote down.

00:52:34.36

Steve Barnes

And this also was like the internet's worst kept secret that rich was going to die. Cause if you go on any Welcome to Derry board up until like yesterday, everybody was saying how rich is going to die in episode seven. It's like, everybody kind of knew about the black spot and they knew rich was going to die. And that played out exactly like there was no big surprise here from the machete for us.

00:52:59.14

Steve Barnes

That's exactly what happened.

00:53:00.09

Lindsey Dunn

I wasn't on the boards, Steve. I was surprised.

00:53:03.94

Steve Barnes

Oh, you were really seriously, you're in the same group I'm in.

00:53:04.98

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:53:07.71

Steve Barnes

Like you didn't.

00:53:09.04

Lindsey Dunn

I didn't see anybody. I mean, people say all kinds of things. doesn't mean it's true. I didn't see anybody saying Rich was going to die. I knew that was a rumor from several weeks back because everybody was like, oh, this is this person's parents and this is this person's parents, and which is which is very silly, but it's something people do that they have to think everybody's related to everybody else.

00:53:21.40

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:53:29.70

Steve Barnes

Yep. Well, I mean, we kind of figured out the Marge thing. They really telegraphed that really strongly. And then having this kid named rich, when we knew a character named Richie was in the losers club, it was all intentional. I mean, they did a very good job with the marketing and with the online chatter. I think with this show, I think they did perfect. And I don't want to give rich any short change here. As I said before, like I, ah the, his, his night, like death,

00:54:02.68

Steve Barnes

did not like really hit me the same way I thought it would. Maybe because I knew it was coming um because it definitely has been chatter and I've definitely have been on board with that knowing that he was, I was pretty much thinking he was going to die this episode too. So I wasn't surprised, but it just, I guess the emotions just didn't run right for me.

00:54:23.67

Steve Barnes

Like I appreciated it and they went through the beats well and the plan was actually like not a terrible plan. Like we can't get out of here. So I'm going like put you in this box that, you know, is like heat proof and fireproof. So like, it's a perfect plan.

00:54:41.66

Steve Barnes

um So like on paper, it works out, but I, I didn't um squeeze any tears out. I'm sorry to say, but you though, you, you did not know this was going to happen. So this was a big surprise to you. So let me hear what your perspective is.

00:54:59.09

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I guess I want to start by saying that do not try this at home, kids. You cannot survive a fire by getting into a freezer.

00:55:12.06

Steve Barnes

He just did. We saw it with our own two eyes.

00:55:14.90

Lindsey Dunn

Well, i I did some research, Steve, because i was i was a little bit I was a little bit cynical, to be honest with you.

00:55:15.45

Steve Barnes

ah

00:55:19.99

Steve Barnes

Oh no. Okay.

00:55:23.11

Lindsey Dunn

I saw this. Now, I have seen that Indiana Jones movie where we're Indiana Jones, where Harrison Ford survives a nuclear blat blast inside a refrigerator.

00:55:34.46

Lindsey Dunn

So I have seen that.

00:55:34.84

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:55:36.12

Lindsey Dunn

But this is different.

00:55:36.31

Steve Barnes

Yes, me too.

00:55:38.81

Lindsey Dunn

This is a fire. This is a fire. So when you're in a fire, all the oxygen sucked out of the room. So going inside of an enclosed box for that length of time, you would not be able to breathe.

00:55:51.38

Steve Barnes

Oh, she would suffocate. oh so she would be fine for the fire, but she would suffocate.

00:55:56.92

Lindsey Dunn

Plus... It looked to me like that.

00:55:59.66

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:56:02.01

Lindsey Dunn

i don't i mean I don't know. i don't know. i mean, i think i think that there's some holes in this. I also was thinking that that box looked like it was made of metal.

00:56:10.64

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:56:14.87

Lindsey Dunn

So it was it was like a metal freezer.

00:56:17.04

Steve Barnes

What's insulated, it is. It's insulated on the inside, though. It is made of metal, but, like, it's designed to, like...

00:56:22.57

Lindsey Dunn

is on the inside, but is Rich actually going to be able to tolerate lying on top of a metal box that's engulfed in a room in flames?

00:56:29.66

Steve Barnes

Oh.

00:56:33.21

Lindsey Dunn

i think that would boil his skin.

00:56:33.40

Steve Barnes

and well, that's why we found his body on... We found his body on the side, so I think it got a little too hot for him, and he he was like, i'm gonna I'm gonna sit down here now, okay, Marge, my love? And she said, okay. I still won't come out.

00:56:47.04

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, thought... I did not want Rich to die. I don't think I was ah like you.

00:56:57.06

Lindsey Dunn

i wasn't sobbing or crying. i was sitting there going, what?

00:57:00.91

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:57:03.05

Lindsey Dunn

They're going to get in this box and then he's going to spend time telling her this story.

00:57:03.41

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:57:09.91

Lindsey Dunn

shi shouldn't he Shouldn't he be looking for a path out? um you know maybe Maybe there wasn't one, but it did seem like lying on there and talking instead of looking for a path out might be, might be a better use of your time.

00:57:26.39

Steve Barnes

okay

00:57:29.75

Lindsey Dunn

And yeah, it, it, all I thought about was the Titanic thing while I was watching this. Um,

00:57:36.91

Steve Barnes

Well, you really Steve Barnes did up there then, because that's what takes me out of shows. Sometimes is like the logic brain will still get going and and I get completely taken out of the scene. Just like you described that happens to me all the time. And this episode, it did not happen.

00:57:53.94

Steve Barnes

um I was on board with the story, like both watches through, I watched it twice and both times I was, i was, you know,

00:58:04.41

Steve Barnes

I mean, I still am um thinking that the refrigerator thing was a good idea, even though you just told me it's not. And you're right. But story-wise, it just kind of worked for me.

00:58:19.48

Steve Barnes

So it's just interesting to me that you're playing the role of me and I'm playing a different role.

00:58:24.02

Lindsey Dunn

But you did say, but you did say you agreed that it felt like Jack and Rose.

00:58:29.78

Steve Barnes

Absolutely. Yeah.

00:58:30.62

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:58:31.02

Steve Barnes

Because the second, the second time I watched it, um, the second time I watched it was the first time that Heather watched it.

00:58:31.10

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:58:37.94

Steve Barnes

So like, I knew this scene was coming up and, you know, Heather kind of had a smirk on her face and I was like, yeah, this is a real Titanic moment. Right. And she was like, yes, she kind of like really latched onto that.

00:58:49.98

Steve Barnes

Um, so yeah, I mean, the first I didn't really think about it. did think about it the first time, but the second time, that's kind of all I thought about. Like you said, yeah

00:59:01.05

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah I mean usually you're right I'm not the one that gets hung up on these details But I was just I mean I was like what is he even asking her To get in this metal box even if it's Insulated and I mean maybe That's why he was lying on top Of it to keep the installation um the ke insulation, queso insulation from keeping, from it being sealed.

00:59:25.62

Lindsey Dunn

But it just seemed to me that the insulation, um if you're in a, and if you're in a house that's engulfed in flames, I did not see how that would survive a fire.

00:59:37.18

Lindsey Dunn

um Personally.

00:59:39.61

Steve Barnes

Not a fireproof box then.

00:59:40.57

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:59:41.01

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:59:41.43

Lindsey Dunn

ah Yeah. And, you know, it'd have to, have to say fireproof. Cause I, yeah. Cause I was like, can you survive, what I googled was, can you survive a fire inside of a freezer?

00:59:52.63

Lindsey Dunn

And it said no right away and explain why. And I thought, it's not AI, but AI is collected from actual research people have done.

00:59:56.12

Steve Barnes

Was that AI telling you that though? Don't ask AI.

01:00:03.84

Lindsey Dunn

Because I guess this could be a common um thing. Like, unless you have a an actual room that you've set up and have fireproofed.

01:00:14.90

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. But I did, okay, so All that being said, I did think Rich's words were sweet, um that he remembered this story about seeing her for the first time with the hamsters and all of that.

01:00:26.82

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah, that was cute. Yeah.

01:00:30.42

Lindsey Dunn

And ah Marge, it did feel like very adult conversation to be having for these for these little uns.

01:00:40.28

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:00:41.72

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, we we did see them bond over Jell-O. so we We know they're very fond of each other, but it did seem a little overdramatic in the way that it was it was done.

01:00:48.41

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:00:56.34

Lindsey Dunn

um Didn't necessarily feel like words that kids would say. um ah his story, yes, but the whole, like, I love you, i don't know.

01:01:08.95

Steve Barnes

This is a Stephen King property. Don't forget.

01:01:10.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:12.73

Steve Barnes

Least we forget.

01:01:14.97

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. But um so so this happens. we all During the black spot, you know, Marge's arm lit on fire. Rich helped her put it out. And now Marge is surviving.

01:01:27.74

Lindsey Dunn

And she probably has a massive case of survivor's guilt. But yeah, the rest of the episode, she doesn't do much. And we don't expect her to. She's just, she's very sad.

01:01:38.10

Lindsey Dunn

and yeah.

01:01:39.61

Steve Barnes

I did have an expectation. I expected her to pick up that plane and fly it to Main Street in honor of Rich. And it didn't happen.

01:01:48.36

Lindsey Dunn

I did too. I thought she i thought she was going to fly the plane.

01:01:51.03

Steve Barnes

ah

01:01:53.27

Lindsey Dunn

Maybe next episode, Steve. Next episode.

01:01:55.38

Steve Barnes

Ah, yes. Winter fire. Here we go. Yes. Or January embers or whatever it's called. All right.

01:02:01.72

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:02:04.57

Lindsey Dunn

So should we move forward?

01:02:06.71

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's so let's keep, let's not go backward.

01:02:08.12

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. i hate I hate to, I mean, I kind of hate, I sort of hate to leave Rich and Marge, but

01:02:09.00

Steve Barnes

Let's definitely go forward. Oh, didn't you threw Ronnie in that group too, right?

01:02:17.24

Lindsey Dunn

No.

01:02:17.70

Steve Barnes

Or Ronnie's in the next group.

01:02:18.67

Lindsey Dunn

She's in the next group. Yeah.

01:02:19.77

Steve Barnes

Okay, well then, yeah, let's get to the next group then where Ronnie is.

01:02:21.82

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Next group. We've got Charlotte, Hank, Ronnie, and Will.

01:02:30.58

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I think Ronnie is a good place to start because um once again, she's kind of plays the sidekick role. But the note that I wrote beside her, which I think was like the my big Ronnie note, um was that she actually sees Pennywise eating.

01:02:49.11

Steve Barnes

And we too, this is the first time when Ronnie sees Pennywise eating that woman. That's the first time we've actually seen Pennywise eating his victims too. Cause I don't think we've ever seen that. We just see him scaring people and taking people away and tearing them up. But these are like our first eaten scenes, right?

01:03:14.39

Lindsey Dunn

um Sure. i mean, I can't say that I've been like, man, I've been waiting to see Pennywise eating somebody.

01:03:21.98

Steve Barnes

Well, I mean, that's this whole thing, you know, the eater of worlds. That's like one of his like sub names. So yeah, was, I was excited to see this. I don't know. That's one of the things I like about this show is that it's, you know, it's got Pennywise and he's scary and Bill Skarsgård plays him well.

01:03:31.19

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:03:38.00

Steve Barnes

So, you know, i was excited not to put anything past Ronnie. I'm supposed to talking about Ronnie here.

01:03:42.01

Lindsey Dunn

it Right.

01:03:43.97

Steve Barnes

Ronnie saw Pennywise do this and she screamed. So there you go.

01:03:50.87

Lindsey Dunn

Yep. So she goes, you know, they go to the standpipe to clean up his things. um She and Marge go to go to Lily's house to tell her about Rich.

01:04:05.53

Lindsey Dunn

And you also have all of the fallout from the black spot where she's there. And i will say, She's being kind of a rock for everybody. You know, she's the the one that's initiating all of these hugs, taking care of Marge.

01:04:22.74

Steve Barnes

That's true.

01:04:22.78

Lindsey Dunn

And well, I'm not, that's not funny, but I mean, I like, I feel like it's a different side of Ronnie in a way because she's been very focused, fair enough, on her dad's predicament and making sure that, you know, wanting to know that he's safe

01:04:23.83

Steve Barnes

A lot of hugs.

01:04:41.40

Lindsey Dunn

But it just takes one of her friends going through something that she gets an instinct, at least, to be a support to somebody else. So I thought that was nice to see that she's able to, she so shows that emotional intelligence that she can switch that on when needed.

01:05:07.06

Steve Barnes

She's rebellious by nature too, because remember like Will's mom is like, you're not leaving this house, young man. And then Hank comes around the corner. He's like, you neither. Now Ronnie, you're not leaving either.

01:05:19.16

Steve Barnes

The very next scene we see Ronnie on her bike riding with a Marge across town. So she doesn't listen to her dad, but um you know, we'll listen to his mom apparently.

01:05:31.35

Lindsey Dunn

I noticed that and I wondered I didn't see Ronnie at the house though so I wondered where Ronnie was because he because he did say she's not going anywhere either but she did but she wasn't there under his she wasn't there under his care at that time

01:05:42.96

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. But she sure did. And

01:05:49.05

Steve Barnes

she taken off with Marge. She was under Marge's care.

01:05:55.10

Lindsey Dunn

um

01:05:58.20

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, so yeah ah okay so with Charlotte and Hank, you know Charlotte goes to the black spot to meet Will and finds out that Hank is hiding in the woods again.

01:06:10.81

Lindsey Dunn

And she has to help him find a new temporary home. And she says, hey, put on my husband's clothes. And I thought that was an interesting tactic because there's this tendency...

01:06:22.46

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:06:28.57

Lindsey Dunn

That, you know, when we've seen in the past when somebody commits a crime, you know, there's that there's somebody wanted and the person's Black and then random Black people will just get pulled over for something they didn't do.

01:06:45.85

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:06:47.70

Lindsey Dunn

So I thought that was an interesting flip the script moment where she was using that prejudice ah in his favor, actually, to say,

01:06:48.58

Steve Barnes

Yup.

01:06:52.31

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Uh-huh.

01:06:57.46

Lindsey Dunn

No one's going to notice that you're not my husband because you're a black guy that's wearing his clothes.

01:07:05.18

Steve Barnes

Yep. I thought that was a smart move, too. That, you know, when Charlotte finds Hank back in the woods, like, she's like, take off your clothes. Yeah. Not because she wants to have sex with them, but because she wants to put his clothes on a dead body so that they think he's dead, which is exactly what she does.

01:07:15.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:07:22.14

Steve Barnes

She puts his clothes on a corpse.

01:07:22.97

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, see, I couldn't figure out what, what, they were doing with these clothes.

01:07:28.76

Steve Barnes

Yeah, yeah, yeah. like they They put his clothes on a corpse, and then later on you see like a cop like take those clothes and put them in a little box that says Hank Grogan's remains, and he puts that little box in a closet.

01:07:32.25

Lindsey Dunn

OK.

01:07:42.52

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:07:42.68

Steve Barnes

So yeah, that was a smart move on Charlotte's part. And um yeah, Charlotte is um roping Rose in with the whole Hank thing too. And you see that like Hank and Rose are familiar with each other. Like they know each other.

01:07:58.04

Steve Barnes

Like not just, they they they don't just know who each other are. You get the sense that they're friends. So I thought that was significant that maybe like Hank's about the same age roses.

01:08:04.47

Lindsey Dunn

right

01:08:08.74

Steve Barnes

So maybe when we go back to 1920 or 1935, we might see like a little Hank Rogan talking about movies, which would be very cool, of course.

01:08:16.15

Lindsey Dunn

who

01:08:18.90

Lindsey Dunn

Well, this is a small town. Both of them work on Main Street.

01:08:20.93

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:08:22.45

Lindsey Dunn

She works at Second Hand Rose. He works at the movie theater.

01:08:25.91

Steve Barnes

Oh, there is that too, duh.

01:08:27.38

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. There's there's that. Yeah.

01:08:30.49

Steve Barnes

But yeah maybe they were kids together. i don't know.

01:08:32.92

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. That would be nice. That would be nice. Now, when she was making this phone call, were you wondering if she was calling Ingrid for a minute?

01:08:44.82

Lindsey Dunn

Because i that's what I thought when she was making this phone call.

01:08:44.83

Steve Barnes

Holy crap. No.

01:08:47.94

Lindsey Dunn

you know She said, if anybody can help, she can. And I was like, oh, gosh, I hope she's not calling Ingrid. She's not calling

01:08:55.83

Steve Barnes

She might be, i don't know. That's a really good point. I just assumed that she was calling like another, like, you know, wise native American woman like herself, like that's slightly older. Um,

01:09:07.22

Lindsey Dunn

No, no, I meant when Charlotte made her phone call. she was Thankfully, she was calling Rose.

01:09:10.84

Steve Barnes

Oh, ah like okay.

01:09:12.02

Lindsey Dunn

but she

01:09:13.06

Steve Barnes

I thought you saying Rose called another woman. Like was going to call somebody in Canada to help us get across the border. Okay. I gotcha.

01:09:19.32

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, hank was Hank had just, he got like a shower.

01:09:19.42

Steve Barnes

Yes. Crisis averted. ah

01:09:22.50

Lindsey Dunn

He was getting cleaned up and he came out and he said, what are we going to do now? And she's like, I'm going to call somebody and hopefully, you know, they'll know what to do.

01:09:30.74

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:09:33.99

Lindsey Dunn

And then I was like, I was glad it was Rose, but for some reason I thought it was Ingrid for a minute.

01:09:38.62

Steve Barnes

ah Sure.

01:09:40.92

Lindsey Dunn

And I was like, you know, because, because her and Ingrid were who initially worked together to get Hank at the black spot.

01:09:48.83

Steve Barnes

That's right. You know, this is something I ah realized about Hank um from last episode that really carried over to this episode. Let's just hypothetically say that I was harboring a fugitive from the law, like at my house, who was known for, who was suspected of killing children.

01:10:10.58

Steve Barnes

Like I'm positive. Like the last thing I would do would be to throw a party and to like invite all of my friends and to have like a big shindig at the same place where I'm harboring this fugitive.

01:10:25.53

Lindsey Dunn

Are you talking about the fact that they had a party at the black spot?

01:10:28.70

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:10:29.85

Lindsey Dunn

but would you yeah But what you have to understand is the black spot was made to have a party and then they hid Hank there.

01:10:30.01

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:10:37.88

Steve Barnes

No, it was made for a place for the airmen to like, you know, blow, sp blow off steam after work. So like they should, while Hank was there, maybe they should have laid low a little bit.

01:10:43.93

Lindsey Dunn

Yes.

01:10:48.76

Steve Barnes

Instead, they invited like multiple singers to come sing and like multiple bands to play. and And I, this is just what I'm thinking.

01:10:58.49

Lindsey Dunn

sister

01:10:59.14

Steve Barnes

He could have been like in a much quieter environment.

01:10:59.38

Lindsey Dunn

I think that was all set up before they brought they brought Hank

01:11:02.33

Steve Barnes

ah And it really served the ah the plot really well too, I guess. We'll give him that. But Hank like gave himself up, though. he will um

01:11:11.96

Lindsey Dunn

yeah right

01:11:13.08

Steve Barnes

yeah dick for Dick, first off, like spoke up big time. like There was a different Halloran in the room at that moment because he was like sticking up for Hank. He was like talking trash to like ah a white man with a gun in his face.

01:11:27.93

Steve Barnes

And he wasn't scared of him at all because you know Dick Halloran was like, dude, we're like we're military dudes. Don't mess with us. um He really had a lot of... ah A lot of bravado in that moment. And Hank just comes on out like, all right, enough. Let's do this.

01:11:45.85

Steve Barnes

um So, you know, more good stuff for Hank's character.

01:11:46.45

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:11:49.34

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he was willing to go with them, but then the men in the room were like, nah, not today. ah

01:11:57.59

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah. ah

01:11:59.93

Lindsey Dunn

um and i guess That kind of leaves us with Will. He doesn't also doesn't do a lot this episode rather than be a good friend to his friends, but he ends up staying home alone on the on the advice or the orders of his parents, and that's when Pennywise visits and traps him in the deadlights.

01:12:12.66

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:12:16.79

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:12:22.87

Lindsey Dunn

Now, the only reason that the entity was able to do this is because that shard was was removed

01:12:30.62

Steve Barnes

Exactly. Thank you for saying that. Cause I was going to say it. If you didn't, I was like, yeah, he was not at his house in Derry. He was at the military base, which is supposed to be safe ground.

01:12:38.90

Lindsey Dunn

yeah yeah so I wonder why i mean it might just be plot you know had to happen but it's I was thinking is there any reason why they chose to pick up Will why Pennywise chose to pick up Will

01:12:43.19

Steve Barnes

And it's not anymore.

01:13:00.31

Lindsey Dunn

out of everywhere he could have gone.

01:13:02.62

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I don't know either. um I think that's going to be something we're just going to have to either speculate about or just wait and see. Because I don't see any reason why he would have chosen Will over top of um you know Marge or Ronnie, for that matter.

01:13:17.34

Lindsey Dunn

Or Lily.

01:13:18.39

Steve Barnes

Well, Lily has the dagger, so he's scared of Lily.

01:13:20.76

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, that's right.

01:13:22.81

Steve Barnes

So um other than that, I can't really see a reason why he would have chosen Will unless he just kind of he being an it knows that, you know, Will is Leroy's son and Leroy is mixed in with the military somehow.

01:13:22.87

Lindsey Dunn

OK.

01:13:37.30

Steve Barnes

Because I i do have a suspicion that that that the military is inadvertently working for it without even realizing it.

01:13:45.56

Lindsey Dunn

um Before we move forward, there is one more thing I forgot to say about Pennywise, which is the teeth.

01:13:57.08

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah, the buck teeth.

01:13:57.59

Lindsey Dunn

You know, the buck teeth.

01:13:59.64

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:14:00.15

Lindsey Dunn

We found out the origin of the buck teeth is from this beaver or it's not a beaver, it's a gopher.

01:14:06.97

Steve Barnes

oh the gopher. You're right. Yes.

01:14:09.78

Lindsey Dunn

Right. The gopher was part of the act.

01:14:12.54

Steve Barnes

ah

01:14:12.60

Lindsey Dunn

a big part of the act. And so Pennywise scanned these all these facial expressions and put the face of Bob Gray and the gopher together.

01:14:19.54

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:14:25.67

Steve Barnes

That qualifies for Easter egg territory right there, I'd say. That's pretty good. i didn't notice that. And yeah, Will gets caught in the deadlights of it at the end here. And i I like Pennywise's new look now because he was like sitting there in like that blood, so his like face is like half covered in blood, red on the bottom.

01:14:35.89

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:14:46.42

Steve Barnes

And that's the look he had when he attacked Will in the kitchen there. And I really like it. I think it's cool. And it matches that... That barehead Indian person who was guiding Dick Halloran around.

01:14:58.27

Steve Barnes

They also had the half red, half white face.

01:14:58.46

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:15:01.75

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:15:02.10

Steve Barnes

I don't know if they're supposed to be like parallels or opposites of one another, but it's definitely there for us to notice.

01:15:10.58

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, that's that's very true.

01:15:14.71

Steve Barnes

Like I was almost thinking that because first off that bare head Indian guy, like led Dick out and led them to safety. That's all good. Yay. The Indian's a good guy, but then the bare head dude, bare head woman, I should say it's a woman.

01:15:31.04

Lindsey Dunn

It's a woman.

01:15:31.29

Steve Barnes

The bare head leads them to the shard so they can dig the shard up and get rid of the shard. And, the fact that that happens tied in with the fact that they have the red and the white face makes me think that maybe that bare face woman is not actually good, not actually leading Dick Halloran around in a good way.

01:15:58.78

Lindsey Dunn

yeah I think that's you know it's that's the warchief that was in the story.

01:16:03.89

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Maybe the war, maybe an image of the warchief under its control.

01:16:10.62

Lindsey Dunn

No, because it it helped Halloran

01:16:14.07

Steve Barnes

Right. It helped Halloran. It helped Halloran by leading Halloran to the shard so that the shard could be dug up so that it could escape.

01:16:17.46

Lindsey Dunn

to find the kids.

01:16:23.19

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I was wasn't talking about that discovery. Yeah. Okay, we're going to talk about our next pair, and we'll go back to this in a minute. Our next pair is Rose and Tanyal.

01:16:35.67

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:16:36.60

Lindsey Dunn

Not a lot to say about them. Again, i think they're going to be more important next episode, but we do have this scene where they say the augury's over.

01:16:45.59

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:16:45.94

Lindsey Dunn

See you in 27 years. you in 27 years. Yeah. see you in twenty seven years yeah

01:16:49.17

Steve Barnes

Shit asses. That's significant that that guy called them shit asses, by the way, because that's like a common like phrase that, you know, I learned this from reservation dogs that that's what they call That's like their common like insult to each other is shit asses.

01:17:06.93

Steve Barnes

It's a phrase I've never heard until recently and very popular in that community.

01:17:15.99

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Okay. Well, now we know.

01:17:19.45

Steve Barnes

I don't know. i thought that was another Easter egg. It was a shit ass Easter egg.

01:17:23.45

Lindsey Dunn

i won't be borrowing that one anytime soon.

01:17:25.46

Steve Barnes

but

01:17:27.83

Lindsey Dunn

um so Charlotte shows up with Hank. Rose lets them in. Daniel comes in during their conversation to let them know a pillar has been removed.

01:17:39.77

Lindsey Dunn

I was pretty impressed with Daniel, the fact that even after all he's been through, He's still hanging out at his post, keeping a keeping a watch on things.

01:17:49.27

Steve Barnes

I'm glad he is so you can let them know what's going on.

01:17:52.12

Lindsey Dunn

yes

01:17:52.79

Steve Barnes

i mean, I think they would have figured it out anyway.

01:17:55.48

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:17:55.61

Steve Barnes

um That, that maybe they wouldn't have figured out that a pillar had been moved or they wouldn't have known which one had been moved. He actually saw it happen.

01:18:02.74

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:18:04.00

Steve Barnes

So yeah, he was looking good too.

01:18:05.50

Lindsey Dunn

i mean I mean, I was really hoping that with this information, Rose was going to show up at the base and really let Shaw have it, you know, when all that stuff was happening at the end.

01:18:20.31

Steve Barnes

She needs to. Somebody needs to.

01:18:22.52

Lindsey Dunn

oh Yeah. Yeah. All right. Now we're to Dick Halloran. So, yeah.

01:18:30.20

Steve Barnes

And the whole military angle now. Yeah.

01:18:33.85

Lindsey Dunn

um He tries, yeah, he tries to eliminate the issue of the, of the men by saying they are misinformed and he was in the kitchen And he used these rotted floorboards underneath the liy leaky fridge to make his escape route.

01:18:48.09

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:18:49.50

Lindsey Dunn

Because we talked about that last week that he made a comment. Notice that these, he said, these floorboards are going to rot. Well, thank God they did because that's how he got out.

01:18:59.83

Steve Barnes

Good thing. ah Yeah. Yeah. though he um He started out this episode pretty strong, like standing up to um Clint Bowers, stomping on the floorboards, getting everybody out.

01:19:09.07

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:19:15.26

Steve Barnes

But pretty much once he starts talking to Bearhead there, that's when like stuff goes south because like he was saying before, like they don't talk to him unless he instigates conversation.

01:19:28.02

Steve Barnes

And then once he instigated conversation, now they're like all, everybody who died in the black spot is now hanging around with Dick Halloran telling him to make it right.

01:19:38.00

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:19:38.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, he had a moment to escape and he didn't because he saw Ronnie saying, where's my dad? And so again, he's yes.

01:19:50.76

Steve Barnes

OK, yeah, that's right.

01:19:52.46

Lindsey Dunn

As, as much as he's sort of, Hey, you're feeding the wrong people, this information, He could have, he almost fled tail and ran. You know, he got through those floorboards and he was about ready to leave. And then he heard Ronnie.

01:20:07.32

Lindsey Dunn

So then he came out and he got Hank, Will, and Ronnie out of the black spot.

01:20:12.16

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. Yep.

01:20:16.44

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, otherwise Will probably wouldn't have made it. So he's...

01:20:21.02

Steve Barnes

He tried to get rich in Marge too Like he was like on the way to get them as well

01:20:23.13

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he tried to get them. But he says to this You know, he first sees um the spirit, he's the first spirit he sees as a soldier.

01:20:35.42

Steve Barnes

Right Me neither

01:20:35.80

Lindsey Dunn

i wasn't sure what the significance of that was, but he sees a soldier ah soldier with his jaw blown off.

01:20:39.38

Steve Barnes

ah

01:20:42.30

Lindsey Dunn

He doesn't really say anything to him, but but he next sees the spirit of, I think it's Nakani is the name of the war chief who is from the story. If it's the same one, he says, okay, know,

01:20:57.59

Lindsey Dunn

over here, over here. And then he says, help me find the kids. So the only reason he risked that is to save other people. and but now But now he's sort of being, in a way, punished or the thing that he didn't want to happen because now they're talking to him.

01:21:13.37

Steve Barnes

Yeah,

01:21:17.11

Steve Barnes

exactly.

01:21:19.19

Lindsey Dunn

um but but he did that. I feel like that was a brave thing for him to do. He like he deserves a medal for that.

01:21:27.45

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And they give out those things in the military too.

01:21:28.89

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:21:31.21

Steve Barnes

and so I think he might be on his way to get one of those because even though we're not really big fans of Shaw or Fuller or any of these guys, they, they all pretty much credit like Dick and Leroy, like, you know, with doing a good job.

01:21:46.95

Steve Barnes

i don't think they're going to screw them over. So maybe they will give them a medal after all this is over.

01:21:51.29

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, okay. Going back to him, though, and his actions, he now tells the group that, oh, if we follow this spirit of this warchief, we can find a shard. i think I feel like the only reason he did that is because he's hoping somehow these this will stop again. Maybe if he gets everything in place, he can go back to normal.

01:22:21.27

Lindsey Dunn

um i don't know how he I don't know how that logic

01:22:21.72

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:22:24.82

Lindsey Dunn

But Shaw has told him that they're going to find the pillars and in capture the creature.

01:22:35.06

Steve Barnes

right

01:22:35.70

Lindsey Dunn

And you know maybe he figures if he helps the military accomplish their goal, then everything will go quiet again.

01:22:46.01

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:22:46.62

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he can close that box in his head. I think that's exactly right. And he's under the impression from Shaw that that that's what their mission is. um Yeah, we found out this episode that Shaw has been kind of sneaky about that this whole time.

01:23:01.97

Steve Barnes

Not exactly telling the truth about what the mission is to... anyone, I think, except for Fuller. Well, maybe the scientists all know because they're pretty amped on burning that shard in the and the incinerator, which was, did you look that up to like for a shard to come from outer space with it inside of it, it had to come through Earth's atmosphere and it survived that.

01:23:28.15

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:23:28.54

Steve Barnes

So can it be destroyed in the common 1962 incinerator?

01:23:35.22

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. I was getting ready when they when they were gonna boil this or you know try to incinerate it. I was ready for something really bad to happen.

01:23:42.90

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:23:46.47

Lindsey Dunn

Besides... Besides the entity getting out, I was thinking like they wouldn't be able to destroy it. Or when or when they tried to burn it, the little baby came out and started chopping up everybody with a sword.

01:23:54.10

Steve Barnes

Sure. Me too. Yeah.

01:24:00.15

Steve Barnes

That would have been very fun. it really would have been.

01:24:04.02

Lindsey Dunn

Like you can't destroy this thing. i thought that's what it was going to be like.

01:24:06.49

Steve Barnes

I wouldn't think so.

01:24:07.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:24:08.79

Steve Barnes

i wouldn't think you could incinerate it. And we didn't actually see it incinerate it. We just saw it kind of like sink into the coals, but that doesn't mean anything. But how are you feeling?

01:24:19.93

Steve Barnes

Like when they dug this thing up out of that turtle shell, because we're at this, we're at that moment now, right?

01:24:24.89

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah, we're at what kind we're at our last group. We have Leroy, Shaw, and Fuller. But yeah, how did I feel about this?

01:24:33.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah. So Fuller's,

01:24:34.73

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, go ahead.

01:24:35.70

Steve Barnes

Fuller's instigating, pulling that shell out and they take the obsidian. What is is it? A shard. One of the pillars. That's what it's not a shard. It's a pillar.

01:24:46.24

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:24:46.93

Steve Barnes

And they put it in the little box and they're getting ready to take it out of there. And Leroy's like, Hey, hold on, hold on What are you doing? um

01:24:52.44

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

01:24:53.24

Steve Barnes

did you, I immediately thought that was odd too. I was like, why are they taking it away? It needs to stay where it's at.

01:25:00.41

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:25:00.50

Steve Barnes

Were you jumping out of your seat too?

01:25:03.31

Lindsey Dunn

wasn't jumping out of my seat. I don't have that dramatic of reactions when I watch when i watch TV shows. I'm staying pretty still on the couch. But I was, i didn't i guess I didn't initially think anything about it until they were ready to burn it.

01:25:19.26

Lindsey Dunn

But the thing that I thought was really funny is the way this whole thing is filmed is very Indiana Jones.

01:25:27.86

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah.

01:25:28.18

Lindsey Dunn

don't I don't know if you felt that at all.

01:25:29.55

Steve Barnes

Oh, absolutely. The way they were carting it around.

01:25:31.22

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, first they find, you know, and it's encased in a turtle shell. I'm just like, why? Okay. So they had

01:25:40.28

Steve Barnes

Well, they showed the kids buried it in turtle shells. That's how they buried them.

01:25:42.52

Lindsey Dunn

Right. and i mean And I mean, the tribe does talk about Maturin. So they they know about, so they hit they buried it in this it turtle shell.

01:25:47.80

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:25:52.38

Lindsey Dunn

They pull it out and the music is very Indiana Jones even.

01:25:57.62

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah.

01:25:58.07

Lindsey Dunn

And they put it in this tiny box that has straw in it and close it up. And it looks like the Ark of the Covenant when they put that in the box. And they they put it in this truck, but it's a big truck and it's a tiny box.

01:26:08.02

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:26:12.10

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:26:13.05

Lindsey Dunn

And then they take it to the base and they put it on a cart. And then they wheel the cart over like five whole feet and take it off of the cart. It was very dramatic.

01:26:22.81

Steve Barnes

And there's two guys pushing the cart, two guys.

01:26:24.22

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, it was very dramatic.

01:26:27.10

Steve Barnes

And there's that symbol on the top of the cart too. And they're like running equipment over it and taking pictures of it.

01:26:30.30

Lindsey Dunn

and

01:26:33.82

Steve Barnes

Yeah. It was very Indiana Jones. Yes.

01:26:37.46

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I just kept thinking of that, you know, the scene when they're excavating the Ark of the Covenant and then they find it and it's like, and everybody's gathered around. but yeah, Leroy, Leroy really steps up here.

01:26:51.45

Lindsey Dunn

he has He has the biggest character swerve

01:26:51.54

Steve Barnes

Oh, sure.

01:26:55.70

Lindsey Dunn

of anyone maybe in maybe in this entire season that we've ever seen.

01:27:02.93

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he's like gun wielding, like the the pillar of goodness. Like he's the hero of the story here, like coming in there and stopping everything. And I mean, I'm thinking, you know, Fuller is this asshole. Fuller is not doing what he's supposed to be doing.

01:27:20.57

Steve Barnes

But then I find out, oh, wait, Fuller is just doing what Shaw's telling him to do. So really it's Shaw that like I feel betrayed by because it's all Shaw's deal.

01:27:31.35

Steve Barnes

so

01:27:31.61

Lindsey Dunn

I feel betrayed by Shaw, but also Fuller, because he should be asking these same questions. And he's just, he's, you know, Leroy is always, we see him as being obedient and Fuller is being a little too obedient.

01:27:48.63

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah. He's a, I bet, I bet his wife gets really mad at him. and like you see, you see Charlie getting mad at Leroy. I mean, Fuller's wife full-time pissed at him all the time because he always does what that daddy says, what Shaw says to do.

01:28:02.35

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:28:03.69

Steve Barnes

And yeah, Shaw does the whole like villain explanation thing at the end of this episode too, which is really nice. Like he does like the James Bond, like villain, like I'm going to explain to you why I'm doing everything that I'm doing.

01:28:17.59

Steve Barnes

while i While I have a gun pointed at me and, you know, it's all for the greater good. Always for the greater good, Lindsey. It's just because they want, you know, to instill fear in their citizens. So their fear fearful citizens will listen to them.

01:28:33.43

Steve Barnes

um Yeah, this whole military plot, this whole military angle is very, very silly and very, very it oriented, I think.

01:28:43.74

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:28:44.07

Lindsey Dunn

It is in a way, but i was I was a little happy about it because a lot of people have been making posts on Facebook and different groups saying, I don't understand this plot or this plan that the military has.

01:29:01.30

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:29:01.56

Lindsey Dunn

And why would this make sense? And trying to make sense of it. And I'm like, well, isn't that the whole point? The plan doesn't work.

01:29:07.29

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:29:09.43

Lindsey Dunn

Because Pennywise is not destroyed.

01:29:09.62

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:29:11.75

Lindsey Dunn

So of course the plan is going to not work. So trying to make sense of the plan is sort of a losing game because we know whatever plan to come up with, it doesn't work.

01:29:22.78

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:29:25.18

Lindsey Dunn

And that seems very on par for military plans or when people when people ever think, oh, if we just do X, Y, and z we will have control of this.

01:29:30.39

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:29:33.49

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:29:38.78

Lindsey Dunn

And of course, it you do not have control of it. It goes off the rails. It goes really badly.

01:29:45.59

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I think they're all drinking Derry water. They're not thinking straight.

01:29:48.57

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:29:50.55

Steve Barnes

And, you know, Shaw has been given like a lot of power in his position and he has this like harebrained idea and the 1962 military is just throwing money at him. Like, okay, sounds good.

01:30:03.16

Steve Barnes

If you think it'll work, let's do it.

01:30:05.75

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:30:06.46

Steve Barnes

um I guess we're going to reap this all next episode.

01:30:10.01

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he I've given up. I told you I had hope for General Shaw. I think that kind of gone away because my hope was based on the fact that Rose might be able to talk sense into him.

01:30:14.62

Steve Barnes

ah

01:30:21.49

Lindsey Dunn

And the way he was talking before where he was saying, I want to protect my country by getting control of this thing.

01:30:28.76

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:30:30.98

Lindsey Dunn

That made sense to me. But the whole, oh we're not going to take control of it. We're going to let it loose. because then people will be scared and we can control them more easily.

01:30:42.70

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:30:44.09

Lindsey Dunn

This is a bad idea, General Shaw.

01:30:44.22

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:30:47.13

Steve Barnes

Does not compute with me either. Not working.

01:30:50.81

Lindsey Dunn

But we we haven't we haven't fully, I don't think we've fully given Leroy his due yet. ah But yeah, he he shows up, he's gun wielding, but he's he pulls out the gun in front of everybody and you know you're gonna be court-martialed or whatever, you know, you're something, But he he is, i I was thinking, wouldn't Charlotte be proud of him right now, knowing that he's not going along with things?

01:31:16.31

Steve Barnes

Sure. Yeah.

01:31:18.18

Lindsey Dunn

And maybe this maybe this character swerve wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the fact of his wife or even the fact of his son, because he you know when his son stands up to him and slaps him, Charlotte is like,

01:31:31.64

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:31:36.46

Lindsey Dunn

I'm ready to leave. you know, I'm ready to leave you or I'm leaving you temporarily at least until you come to your senses. And maybe if he didn't have such a strong wife, he wouldn't have gotten to this point.

01:31:53.14

Lindsey Dunn

So, um so good. I like their family, good family dynamic going. And um so he tries to, I do like, I think he, I think throughout the show though, he's shown, Maybe he goes along with things, but he does ask questions.

01:31:57.98

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah.

01:32:08.82

Lindsey Dunn

He does say, wait a second, what are you doing? Why are you questioning this? where Why are you questioning Daniel this way and treating him this way?

01:32:19.53

Lindsey Dunn

you know So he doesn't he does ask questions.

01:32:20.34

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:32:24.38

Steve Barnes

Yeah, we don't always like him, but he yeah, he he does always seem like he has his head in the right place. We haven't seen him like

01:32:32.05

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:32:34.65

Steve Barnes

I don't know. Like he finally wants to leave Derry now. So he's finally on board with everything.

01:32:37.41

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Mm-hmm.

01:32:39.41

Steve Barnes

And according to what Shaw said, you're right.

01:32:39.67

Lindsey Dunn

right

01:32:41.61

Steve Barnes

He could be court-martialed for his actions, but Shaw tells him that like, Oh no, what you've taken part in here, you know, you're a hero. So Shaw is still going to continue covering it up. He could,

01:32:54.97

Steve Barnes

very well, like court martial Leroy. But I think he knows that Leroy would talk and ask questions and maybe make more sense than anybody else would. So instead, they're going to give him like the heroes shut up reward like or maybe they'll allow him to move to like a different military base anywhere in the United States.

01:33:11.51

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:33:19.45

Steve Barnes

He wants to because that he obviously doesn't want to stay in Derry.

01:33:23.96

Lindsey Dunn

But we know he does.

01:33:25.46

Steve Barnes

Yeah, eventually he's going to drawn back.

01:33:26.17

Lindsey Dunn

and i don't know if he never leaves. I have a feeling that he never leaves. That whatever, you know, something's going to happen. We know that something happens to Will.

01:33:38.90

Lindsey Dunn

And ah you know, then he ends up taking care of Mike. Leroy ends up taking care of Mike.

01:33:44.66

Steve Barnes

yes

01:33:46.05

Lindsey Dunn

So whatever happens beats him down enough that he ends up becoming a farmer and taking care of sheep.

01:33:56.15

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, given it, given everything else up.

01:33:58.23

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:34:00.19

Steve Barnes

Yeah. That kind of makes sense. The stuff he's seen, the life he's led at this point, I kind of want to give up and go raise sheep.

01:34:05.66

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:34:08.79

Steve Barnes

So yeah, he must definitely want to.

01:34:13.59

Lindsey Dunn

Um, okay. and Is there anything else you want to say about characters?

01:34:18.58

Steve Barnes

Yeah. i just wanted to, um, bring it back again. Cause you were mentioning Shaw, how we're not liking him.

01:34:23.92

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:34:24.86

Steve Barnes

You really wanted to like him, but you didn't, but I'm, I'm very invested in this show now. um Like it a lot. Like the fact that we're going to get to see Rose and Shaw as kids and the next season, like, is it going to go back to 1935? I like the fact that we're going see Ingrid for sure.

01:34:48.47

Steve Barnes

And that we're definitely going to, it looks like we're going to be seeing the young Hank. Cause I really think we're getting the vibe that Hank was part of like some crew when he was a kid too. And maybe even like Clint Bowers might play the role of like a young a-hole in town who terrorizes the, the, the nerd kids.

01:35:07.28

Lindsey Dunn

Well,

01:35:09.10

Steve Barnes

um I don't know. I, I just wanted to, to just remind us that Was I saying Hank? I meant to say Shaw, like Shaw and Rose. i'm I'm very much looking forward to getting back to that story when Shaw and Rose and Hank and all these kids were like younger back in 1935.

01:35:31.67

Lindsey Dunn

well I think what we saw when we saw Rose and Frances, it was 1908. o eight

01:35:42.33

Lindsey Dunn

So the 1935 scenes we've seen are Ingrid at the hospital.

01:35:47.77

Steve Barnes

Okay. Yeah, you're right.

01:35:49.01

Lindsey Dunn

She's in her 20s. So I think when they're kids, it's going to be the third season.

01:35:52.47

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:35:54.06

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:35:54.94

Steve Barnes

Well, even so my whole point being like seeing that Rose and Hank grew up in the same town together, they're about the same age and they know each other.

01:35:55.74

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. yeah

01:36:03.42

Steve Barnes

That just made me excited knowing that we might see like a young movie loving Hank Rogan hanging out in the future seasons.

01:36:12.66

Lindsey Dunn

okay fair enough um I wanted to just talk for a minute about the black spot itself you already mentioned this but ah it was filmed in one take that that whole sequence and there I thought they did a nice job on that there was lots of chaos people getting shot people confused

01:36:28.61

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:36:37.50

Lindsey Dunn

moving into each other the way that they the camera had to negotiate all that space i i thought that it was filmed really well and like you said it took half the episode kind of seeing all of that mm-hmm

01:36:53.98

Steve Barnes

It was disorienting too. Like, um, my first watch through, you know, I was, I was, i was wanting different camera angles. Cause I was like, what's happening over there.

01:37:03.77

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

01:37:04.83

Steve Barnes

I can't see what's happening. And then they panned away. Why? and so like, when I realized it was a, it was a single camera shot that made me forgive that moment.

01:37:08.47

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:37:13.79

Steve Barnes

Um, but yeah, I think it was designed to be confusing and designed to put you in that spot. And um it was well done. And I saw some behind the scenes stuff where they were working with some real fire. I know obviously they weren't in a burning building, but you know they had to set some fires and do some acting around some fires and some smoke. And yeah it shows, I think everybody did a good job of ah being very scared and frantic and freaked out in this scene.

01:37:42.87

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:37:43.13

Steve Barnes

So the the actors pulled it off too. You can't really pull this off Unless your actors are acting appropriately.

01:37:50.26

Lindsey Dunn

I was, like the first time I watched it, I was focused on where are the characters I care about.

01:37:55.58

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:37:55.64

Lindsey Dunn

So that's what I was, that's what I was looking at.

01:37:56.66

Steve Barnes

ah Same.

01:37:58.40

Lindsey Dunn

But the second time I was appreciating the way it was filmed and how, you know, somebody goes to the door to, to do something and then they get shot in the head.

01:38:10.10

Lindsey Dunn

So that person is now, not there anymore that was that was trying to do something and uh you know at that at one point that girl noreen she's the first she's the one we see get eaten she just sort of gives up at one point and that's when pennywise comes to hang out with her because she's given up all hope

01:38:16.28

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:38:31.06

Steve Barnes

Yeah, easy pickings.

01:38:34.14

Lindsey Dunn

all right so are we ready to rate the episode

01:38:38.17

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I think so. Would you like to go first?

01:38:41.34

Lindsey Dunn

I can go first, yes. I'm going to give this episode still a very strong four out of five turtles. I thought it was well-done episode.

01:38:53.75

Lindsey Dunn

i do I do think they... i would have liked to see them do things differently. Now, I haven't seen next week's episode, but in my head, the black spot was going to be the climax.

01:39:06.94

Lindsey Dunn

And they've set up you know they've set up this plot twist now. where it has been set out of free of its cage. So there's going to be bad things happen.

01:39:16.03

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:39:19.19

Lindsey Dunn

I just wish that, I feel like they should have given the black spot more weight than they are doing in the hole in the big picture.

01:39:30.26

Lindsey Dunn

But four out of five.

01:39:32.28

Steve Barnes

I hear you. Okay. So, okay. um I'm thinking about our rating system in accordance with itself. And I think i maybe I'm rating things differently than I should be. Maybe I'm rating things inconsistently. I don't know. You've given the last three episodes five out of five, and you gave this one four out of five.

01:39:53.05

Steve Barnes

The last episode was the first episode I gave five out of five turtles. And i felt compelled because of that to give this episode also a five out of five turtles because I enjoyed it just as much as I did the previous episode, but for different reasons.

01:40:10.17

Steve Barnes

I think maybe it's because we're later in the season now and I'm a little more invested in the story than I was before.

01:40:10.53

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:40:16.86

Steve Barnes

Maybe that's why I'm putting this on such a higher pedestal, but I really liked everything they did with Ingrid and with Pennywise. Um, I think the whole military wrap up, um, was a really fun reveal that it's all incompetency.

01:40:35.83

Steve Barnes

Um, Rich's death could have been handled differently, but I, I definitely forgive it for what it is. um so I'm kind of a sucker, I guess. Um, maybe I'm not a bad Raider, but I, I still want to give this one five out of five.

01:40:51.80

Steve Barnes

Um, just because I enjoyed it all the way through. And there was never a moment that I threw my arms up in the air in despair. um i was just enjoying it all the way through.

01:41:05.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, and I'm still enjoying i'm enjoying the show. I'm glad we're doing it. And... Looking forward to the season ender.

01:41:17.16

Steve Barnes

That's next week, baby.

01:41:17.82

Lindsey Dunn

Next week. Yeah. All right. So how about MVPs? Who are you liking this episode?

01:41:22.83

Steve Barnes

I'll go. Yeah, I'll go first on this one. um I'm giving it up for Dick Halloran. I'm not sure if I gave it to him last episode or not. I don't think I did. um But I give it to him for standing up to the the the attackers in the beginning of the episode for his guidance and his leadership throughout this episode.

01:41:43.42

Steve Barnes

for the way he talks shit to his superior officers and then just kind of sheepishly, you know, ah half-assedly apologizes for it. um I don't know. i like everything about Dick Halloran and this episode. He deserves it. So, and yeah, you said he deserved a medal. This is his medal. He gets the MVP of Sweet Child of Time. So there you go.

01:42:09.22

Lindsey Dunn

You know, this, you know, this makes me happy because I remember an episode where you said, I'm not understanding the, the uproar about Dick Halloran.

01:42:20.31

Lindsey Dunn

So I'm glad, I'm glad that you've, you've come, you've come to appreciate his character.

01:42:25.89

Steve Barnes

I pre and I don't love his hairstyle, but, ah but I realized now what I don't like about it. And it's taken me this long to figure it out. And I just recently watched the, um, the documentary that's taken down, um, Sean Puffy combs, the reckoning documentary. I watched this recently and ah all of his like friends were like talking trash about him now that they're able to,

01:42:50.87

Steve Barnes

And one of his friends was calling him a Gumby looking dude. He was like that Gumby haircut he's got. And I was like, that's exactly it. That's the same haircut that Dick Halloran has the Gumby.

01:43:02.36

Lindsey Dunn

no

01:43:02.91

Steve Barnes

So that's, that's my whole issue with his haircut. Um, but yes, MVP, proud man. He deserves my love.

01:43:12.94

Lindsey Dunn

interestingly enough the Caleb from Stranger Things who is the black male character in that show i feel has the same haircut this season and people are complaining people are complaining about his hair too so I would think

01:43:21.53

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:43:24.28

Steve Barnes

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has more of the kid in play. but

01:43:32.47

Lindsey Dunn

Perhaps this is supposed to be a style, but a lot of the people that are complaining about the hair are black. So I don't know. It's confusing to me. um So I guess this is not a good haircut.

01:43:46.93

Steve Barnes

It's not.

01:43:50.30

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. My MVP is going to be Leroy Hanlon because of, because of his,

01:43:56.66

Steve Barnes

Okay, buddies with Dick.

01:43:59.48

Lindsey Dunn

Because of his ah his swerve, his character swerve. I didn't know if was going to happen. I mean, last last week he was hitting his son. um And

01:44:08.63

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:44:11.54

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, I know this is a good a good good a guy, a good dude. He's really brave. And he is a man of excellence.

01:44:22.97

Lindsey Dunn

And um so I'm glad that he's shown, you know, he's going to do what's right and he did that here even though it meant going against everybody else in the room so I think that takes a lot of courage so what's going to happen next what are our predictions we have one more episode to go

01:44:40.63

Steve Barnes

Absolutely.

01:44:52.47

Steve Barnes

Predictions. Well, we know the cage is open.

01:44:54.87

Lindsey Dunn

the cage is open mm-hmm

01:44:55.34

Steve Barnes

The augury is not yet complete. We thought it happened, but you know Pennywise is out there. um Deadlight victims. We got Will and Ingrid.

01:45:07.80

Steve Barnes

So that's those that's my predictions is we're going to see Will and Ingrid not quite being themselves. And yeah, Will could survive this, but Will could also um do some weird stuff while it's under the spell of it.

01:45:26.71

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I mean, somehow all of the high schoolers, the school kids get roped into this. So I don't know.

01:45:33.27

Steve Barnes

what do you What do you mean by that?

01:45:35.26

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I mean, in the trailer.

01:45:37.88

Steve Barnes

Oh, the patty cakes.

01:45:39.61

Lindsey Dunn

the Well, not just the patty cakes, but there's in the the next week trailer what i see is you remember how the people at the black spot all of the men in masks they went outside and they chained the door closed and everybody's banging on the doors they show a moment like that in the trailer where the kids are at the gymnasium and they run up and they're banging on the door so somehow the kids Pennywise comes to the school, I guess.

01:45:55.45

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:46:01.88

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:46:09.77

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. Pennywise is like, school days, school days, happy golden rule days.

01:46:14.58

Steve Barnes

ah

01:46:15.16

Lindsey Dunn

but um Yeah, so that, I think i think Lily's going to have a moment.

01:46:21.77

Steve Barnes

Oh, sure.

01:46:22.17

Lindsey Dunn

I think Daniel and Rose and the um the people of the Shokapiwa people, shopu shoka piwa people are going to get involved because it was interesting when they were having their group meeting and the woman who's the new storyteller or the keeper, they called her, she says, all of those people and all we can do is watch.

01:46:46.58

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:46:52.92

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:46:53.21

Lindsey Dunn

And ah Rose says, well, we help as many as we can.

01:46:53.22

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

01:46:58.74

Lindsey Dunn

But I have a feeling that that particular character was did not like that answer. so I feel like that that, you know, especially with the shards being destroyed, they're going to get involved somehow. It's going to be, all of our characters are going to be in this final episode, of course.

01:47:17.85

Lindsey Dunn

um I think they're going to perhaps show little tells about, you know, the next, the the cycle we see in the movies, the one the one from It Proper.

01:47:32.60

Lindsey Dunn

We might see something that shows that Marge is going to name her kid after Rich. I don't know. They'll show a little homage or something.

01:47:41.05

Steve Barnes

Right, right. Oh, yeah, they got to do that.

01:47:44.76

Lindsey Dunn

If that's that's a fact, a thing.

01:47:44.95

Steve Barnes

um it

01:47:48.06

Lindsey Dunn

and i

01:47:48.45

Steve Barnes

It's got Right.

01:47:49.43

Lindsey Dunn

And let's call out the paper airplanes. The paper airplanes are going to, or the balsa wood it's planes

01:47:56.02

Steve Barnes

Right. not paper

01:48:00.96

Lindsey Dunn

will come back into the plot somehow.

01:48:03.32

Steve Barnes

And finally make it to Main Street. i hope so.

01:48:05.88

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, or or um Marge will be like, this is for you, Rich. And she'll fly the plane, and it's going to it'll like penetrate Pennywise right in the eyeball.

01:48:16.96

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know.

01:48:17.42

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah.

01:48:18.65

Lindsey Dunn

sister

01:48:21.98

Steve Barnes

Well, yes, I'm interested to see how Will is going to get used because I know he's going to get used somehow.

01:48:26.90

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:48:27.26

Steve Barnes

Um, this makes me think about the shining, which of course is tied in with it now.

01:48:32.75

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:48:33.62

Steve Barnes

And there's a scene where, um, Wendy locks Jack up into the walk-in cooler and all the ghosts, they want Jack to get out.

01:48:44.97

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:48:45.02

Steve Barnes

Um,

01:48:47.64

Steve Barnes

So, but they have to use a particular method in order to get him out because they're just ghosts. So they have to like, you know, use their, use something within our world because within the spirit world, they can't unlock that door.

01:49:05.74

Steve Barnes

That's why I think that like, we'll, we'll play a big role here much in the same way. Like it can't get to the kids in a certain way, but if it,

01:49:16.62

Steve Barnes

infiltrates the kids, then it has an N. So yeah, Will's going to lead the kids to danger. That's what I'm trying to say. Long story short, TLDR.

01:49:27.10

Lindsey Dunn

ah

01:49:27.45

Steve Barnes

ah

01:49:29.24

Lindsey Dunn

o Okay. Well, do we do we have any closing announcements or plugs?

01:49:38.07

Steve Barnes

We as in me. ah

01:49:40.22

Lindsey Dunn

We as in, well, i have I have something. Sorry, I have a topic that I want to bring up before we do. I guess it's it's a topic and a plug at the same time.

01:49:50.10

Steve Barnes

Oh, yeah. Two for one. Do it.

01:49:51.29

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, you might you might know what where I'm going to say, Steve, but we did get news this week from our beloved Baron Bo Odar.

01:50:00.47

Steve Barnes

Oh, yes. Okay.

01:50:02.26

Lindsey Dunn

So we've been talking about the fact that we believe that he and partner and marriage partner Yantia Fries are going to be working on Welcome to Derry Season 2.

01:50:17.21

Lindsey Dunn

Well, that future is now a little less unclear.

01:50:17.64

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:50:21.72

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Mm

01:50:22.26

Lindsey Dunn

Reason being is we got news that their his knew that their new series is going to be called Strullpeter or Strullpeter.

01:50:35.29

Lindsey Dunn

They have a new series coming that looks like it might even open in January, which is based on a German children's book of folktales.

01:50:46.65

Lindsey Dunn

And I have bought my copy already of the book. um its It was $15. You can get on Amazon.com.

01:50:57.02

Lindsey Dunn

um Not that I'm promoting Amazon. Sorry. Just cut all that, James. um Okay, so go to your local library or interlibrary.

01:51:01.71

Steve Barnes

Go to your local library.

01:51:06.05

Lindsey Dunn

Loan it ah sometimes. Or you can get your independent bookstore. um

01:51:12.06

Steve Barnes

Have you read the book though? or or do you just own it now?

01:51:13.59

Lindsey Dunn

So I think the question is,

01:51:18.94

Lindsey Dunn

I have, it has arrived at my home address, but I'm in another state.

01:51:24.08

Steve Barnes

Gotcha.

01:51:27.38

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, but i'll I'll get it in a few days.

01:51:28.57

Steve Barnes

Gotcha.

01:51:30.25

Lindsey Dunn

It's supposed to be 25 pages long or you know, it's a very short book. um this This story, this story is also the same story, Shul Pater, is also the basis for Edward Scissorhands.

01:51:35.93

Steve Barnes

It'll take you all year to read that one, Lindsey.

01:51:47.90

Lindsey Dunn

there might be some familiar elements for people that know that story.

01:51:49.78

Steve Barnes

Oh,

01:51:53.02

Lindsey Dunn

But anyway, the big mystery the big mystery is now, is the collaboration between Baron, Yantia, and the Muschiettes related to Struelpeter?

01:51:53.54

Steve Barnes

that's very cool.

01:52:06.49

Lindsey Dunn

Or are they still going to work with Welcome to Derry?

01:52:07.05

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:52:12.22

Lindsey Dunn

you know It could be their doing both of these shows, but it could be that the Muschietti are producers on their show rather than them working with them on Welcome to Derry.

01:52:16.31

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:52:27.14

Steve Barnes

if we can predict things, I'm, what, what, what my prediction, this is really my hope is, is that they've already filmed and completed this German project and it's going to be aired in January and you and I can talk about it on podcasts and it'll be fun.

01:52:32.50

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

01:52:43.58

Steve Barnes

And then because it's already been done and they've already worked on it, then they will move and they'll be like working on Welcome to Derry part two or season two.

01:52:55.88

Steve Barnes

Hopefully it's like, we get like, we get everything we want. And yes.

01:52:59.70

Lindsey Dunn

everything we want i don't think that happens very often but

01:53:02.23

Steve Barnes

And then, and then after they finished Welcome to Derry season two, they work on 1899 season two. oh it'd be wonderful.

01:53:13.43

Lindsey Dunn

so in another wild plot twist in all this which i think we should mention is that this show you know before their shows dark and 1899 had been with netflix they now were not working with netflix and they were working with HBO.

01:53:30.71

Lindsey Dunn

But now Netflix has bought HBO.

01:53:31.99

Steve Barnes

ah Whew. Thank God.

01:53:36.34

Lindsey Dunn

Wait, why is that, thank God? I'm thinking the poor...

01:53:38.77

Steve Barnes

Cause they can stay on Netflix now. Now the Yonte and Bo can stay on Netflix.

01:53:43.29

Lindsey Dunn

i was thinking poor Bo and Yantia, like they're trying to get away from Netflix and now they're back under the Netflix umbrella, even though that wasn't maybe their hope.

01:53:54.33

Steve Barnes

I think the Netflix merger is awful. I'm really upset about it actually, because it seems like it's a move towards going back to like cable and like everything. you know, having one service that everybody has to subscribe to But I just, you know, i only cheered because, you know, their projects will all be in one streaming service and we can watch them all in one place.

01:54:16.84

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. Theoretically, they said there's still going to be separate services, but we'll see.

01:54:24.41

Steve Barnes

For now. Yeah, we'll see.

01:54:25.62

Lindsey Dunn

We'll see. um I don't know. I think people are upset about Netflix because they feel like they're very quick to cancel shows. And I don't know, maybe, maybe, or maybe not.

01:54:35.96

Steve Barnes

Sure.

01:54:38.48

Lindsey Dunn

That's also true of HBO, but we'll see. And I'm looking, looking forward to more information about this show. And I'm hoping it will be in the United States because it's been announced as a German show, this jewel Peter.

01:54:51.86

Steve Barnes

right

01:54:52.95

Lindsey Dunn

So hopefully we'll also get a chance to see it.

01:54:57.11

Steve Barnes

I mean, even if it is only going to be in German, then we can at least get manifold mold to like share his screen with us. We can watch it with him and then we can, um, we can podcast about it and then translate our podcast to German and then release it over there.

01:55:12.04

Steve Barnes

We'll be all good.

01:55:12.95

Lindsey Dunn

i'm not I'm not sure you should be sharing how we're having our friends illegally share their services with us, Steve. But OK.

01:55:20.39

Steve Barnes

It's not illegal. You can do it for, you can do it on discord. It's all good. ah

01:55:24.54

Lindsey Dunn

I'm not sure that the streaming services are down with Discord, but OK.

01:55:30.07

Steve Barnes

Just, just, just don't tell anybody. It's all good.

01:55:34.52

Lindsey Dunn

um So with that, that's actually it's my announcement and a plug because I don't have anything else to plug. How about you, Steve?

01:55:44.04

Steve Barnes

Nah, just keep on listening to the sweet shot of time and one of my stories and, uh, sure. Let's give out James a plug. If you, if you want to support our shows and support our editor, head over to patrion.com slash MLM pod.

01:55:58.75

Steve Barnes

Cause that's where his stuff is. And his discord server is there. Lindsey and I are also on his discord server. And sometimes I post pictures of my dog and it's fun.

01:56:10.58

Steve Barnes

So yeah, that's my only plug.

01:56:12.76

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Thank you. Well, and thank you to all of you who have joined us in this episode of Welcome to Derry. May all the clowns you meet be kind. May all the friends you met be kept safe in your hearts, not in a freezer. And we hope to see you all next week for Episode 8, Winter Fire. Goodbye.

01:56:35.11

Steve Barnes

Bye.

Stranger Things Season 5, Volume 1: Upside Down, Boy You Turn Me

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Wed, 03 Dec 2025 17:58:00 +0000

Nell Fisher as HOLLY

Ready for a crawl? Or a piece of special pie? Harrison Martin, otherwise known as Flixfrog, came back to 1 of my Stories to help me make sense of the final season of STRANGER THINGS. Netflix gonna Netflix, so, of course, they had to release the season in three parts, outdoing their previous two-part release. Fair enough.

Both of us had waned in our enthusiasm for the show and weren't sure what to expect. But we loved re-entering the world and discovering the big reveal of part 1.

Priah Ferguson as ERICA

Life in Hawkins has taken a turn. The whole town is under quarantine and part of the city is closed up in a military occupied zone called MAC-Z. The Byers family is shacking up with the Wheelers for an undisclosed reason. Robin and Steve have new jobs at the SQOWK radio station, and whole gang uses the station as a rally point and operation center for their secret mission to find Vecna in the Upside Down. Murray plays Santa Clause and keeps the group equipped and operational for their special projects. The whole crew participates in these projects and knows to hup-to whenever Diana Ross's UPSIDE DOWN plays. That's the call signal. Eleven and Hopper are living in the outskirts of town, helping Eleven train. Poor Max is still in a coma, with Lucas faithfully visiting her and keeping that Kate Bush light on. Finally, we have Holly Wheeler, always the kid sister in the background, playing a new unusual role.

Finn Wolfhard as MIKE

The military is on the hunt for Eleven, but can Eleven and the gang find Vecna before everything they hold dear is taken away?

The next three episodes drop on Christmas Day, and the finale drops on New Year's Eve, with theatrical releases happening in some cities. Do you have your tickets?

About Harrison Martin: Harrison Martin is the founder of Flixfrog, a blog reviewing film and television. He got a part-time job at Regal Cinemas to make watching movies more convenient (OK … free). Even after leaving his job at Regal Cinemas, Harrison would drive hours to any advanced screening in the hopes of someday becoming a certified critic. Since then, the website has grown into a small business venture including reviews, articles, digital content, and much more. You can find Harrison on Twitter @movieguru23 or @flixfrog

You can go here and here to see your season 4 discussions.

Welcome to Derry, Episode 6: In the Name of the Father

noreply@blogger.com (Lindsey) — Wed, 03 Dec 2025 03:41:00 +0000

A still from WELCOME TO DERRY

With only three episodes left, Welcome to Derry gives us the gift of a moment of calm before the storm. Yes, the kids and adults are left reeling after their interactions with It/Pennywise in the sewer, but there's a moment of reprieve as Ronnie reunites with her dad and the Black soldier blow off some steam at the newest dive in town, The Black Spot.

Amanda Christine as RONNIE

Not everyone is having a good time though, certainly not Lilly, Dick Hallorann, or the Hanlon family. We also get a pretty big reveal in regards to a certain employee of Juniper Hill, Ingrid Kersh. As usual, we go through our Easter eggs, our MVP, our rating, and the character beats that made us scream, laugh, and lean forward. Next week's episode is gearing up to be a big one, The Black Spot. This is where all the junk will go down. Will the Muschiettis be able to land their paper plane on Main Street? Have to wait a whole week to find out.

Visit our show landing page for all the podcast recaps.

Hannah Storey as RHONDA, Maya McNair as PATTY, Maya Misaljevic as ELAINE

A still from WELCOME TO DERRY

Transcript of podcast episode

00:00:01.82

Lindsey Dunn

Hello and welcome to Welcome to Derry. I'm Lindsey Dunn, your host of the One of My Stories podcast. And with me today is your other host from the Sweet Child of Time podcast.

00:00:14.84

Lindsey Dunn

Just like Marge, he's got issues with one eye. He's my favorite pirate. It's Steve Barnes. Ahoy!

00:00:22.33

Steve Barnes

Ahoy and arg there, Lindsey. Thank you for recognizing that. How are you?

00:00:29.52

Lindsey Dunn

I'm good. i was happy that it's the one time that it finally makes sense for us to say ahoy.

00:00:36.66

Steve Barnes

I know, really, yes. I mean, or maybe you could knight me instead because you know that they're like a pirate knight couple now, apparently.

00:00:46.23

Lindsey Dunn

The costumes are all selected for Halloween.

00:00:51.06

Steve Barnes

Date, that's what it is.

00:00:51.83

Lindsey Dunn

The Halloween date, yeah. But we won't call it a date. That word got eliminated from the vocabulary really quick.

00:01:00.44

Steve Barnes

Oh, we know where it was heading. Come on, kids. Don't be coy. I mean, it's fully in bloom at this point. ah Yeah, I can't wait to get to that section. We always spoil it a little ahead by talking about our favorite stuff from the get-go.

00:01:10.65

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:01:14.17

Steve Barnes

But um yeah, I mean, that's this was an exciting episode for me. I want to ask you first, though, how did you love this episode?

00:01:22.54

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, man, you beat me to it. Okay.

00:01:25.20

Steve Barnes

ha.

00:01:25.47

Lindsey Dunn

Uh, well, um, it, this was ah another great episode. There's been no whammies so far. Um, since ever since the, um, the graveyard scene, there's not been an episode that I've really hated or you know, had any issues with.

00:01:38.72

Steve Barnes

That's right. Mm-hmm.

00:01:42.74

Lindsey Dunn

I thought this one had so much missing information. It was another piece of the puzzle. And this time, We go back to 1935. We had a 1908 flashback, and now we get one from 1935.

00:01:59.22

Lindsey Dunn

We also get to enjoy a lot of our characters just enjoying life, shooting the breeze, and this is an essential ingredient to any good horror show.

00:02:09.05

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:02:09.24

Lindsey Dunn

One of the reasons it's so powerful is that our Losers Club is established as normal kids with hopes,

00:02:16.09

Steve Barnes

Ah, OK.

00:02:21.42

Lindsey Dunn

dreams, fears, and insecurities. So I thought I saw that they were doing that here as a buildup to when the really bad stuff comes, we're going to be more invested in these guys because of this episode.

00:02:34.87

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's getting better as it rolls along. Absolutely. Like, yeah, you mentioned like the whole graveyard. um We'll call it a snafu or a fiasco because that's kind of what it was. um But ever since then, you're absolutely correct. It's just been getting better and better every week.

00:02:55.48

Steve Barnes

um It's just unfortunate that five minutes, um, kind of soured a community for a week there, including myself, but, um, we came back from it strong and like, I didn't quite follow what you said. Cause you were talking about, um, more, more mysteries or more puzzles, but I kind of felt like they were throwing some solutions at us. Like they're like, we don't have to discuss like who started the black spot fire anymore because it's pretty well documented in this episode. And Ingrid pretty much described her whole deal and Dick Halloran described his whole deal in great detail. So I feel like we got filled in a lot with a lot of backstory.

00:03:40.09

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, that's what I said. Another piece of the puzzle is, you know, it's, I'm saying,

00:03:45.56

Steve Barnes

Oh, was put in. Okay.

00:03:46.94

Lindsey Dunn

yes

00:03:47.24

Steve Barnes

I know that we got a piece. Okay. We, we found the puzzle piece. I see what you're saying. I misunderstood.

00:03:53.59

Lindsey Dunn

The puzzle, a puzzle piece that was stuck under the couch.

00:03:56.92

Steve Barnes

We found it.

00:03:57.14

Lindsey Dunn

has come out.

00:03:58.33

Steve Barnes

Yeah. think we found like two really the two big corner pieces, I guess, which I think is like the Dick Halloran box story and, and Ingrid, which people have been talking mostly about those two things. And I think the show runners just wanted to shut everybody up. Yeah.

00:04:14.55

Steve Barnes

So they gave us this episode.

00:04:16.66

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, maybe we can call that, can we call that cemetery thing? Can we call it Cemetery Gate? Everybody always seems to want to put gate on stuff, Pizzagate. Just call it Cemetery Gate.

00:04:27.22

Steve Barnes

And cemeteries do have gates, so it works perfectly. i love it, actually. Ever since Cemetery Gate, things have been much better in Derry's America.

00:04:39.70

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, there's, and, you know, we've shared our reactions, but yes, the fandom seems to be in another episode where people seem to be split on a and a lot of complaining that people thought it was a slow episode.

00:04:53.42

Lindsey Dunn

i totally disagree.

00:04:53.88

Steve Barnes

Oh,

00:04:54.78

Lindsey Dunn

It was good to have that because next week's episode is probably going to be pretty horrific.

00:05:01.05

Steve Barnes

right.

00:05:02.14

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:05:02.33

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I didn't see, I saw mostly like people loving this episode. i think I've only saw like maybe one or two posts where people, yeah, they did say it was slower or I don't know.

00:05:14.77

Steve Barnes

I don't understand that because I think these are my types of episodes that I look forward to where you get to learn, you get these slow burn moments and you get like these small moments that I kind of didn't feel like these moments felt forced.

00:05:20.72

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:05:29.07

Steve Barnes

I felt like they were um just, they were done really well and they weren't, you know, put in as like a side note. I don't know. I'm kind of stumbling over my words here. Just trying to say how, how much I loved this type of episode that doesn't have to be, you know, all action and all quips and funny stuff.

00:05:52.57

Lindsey Dunn

Yes, very set building.

00:05:57.05

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:05:57.24

Lindsey Dunn

And I mean, I think one of the strongest, there's many strong episodes of Dark, for instance, but I always liked the first episode where we go to school and we see Bartosz and Jonas just hanging out.

00:06:09.57

Lindsey Dunn

And then there was another time where they're in his house playing video games and talking about what drugs they're going buy that evening.

00:06:10.12

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:06:17.83

Lindsey Dunn

So, I mean...

00:06:18.20

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:06:19.86

Lindsey Dunn

Those kinds of moments are important. So I enjoyed it. And we got, yeah, lots of humor and and lots of good quotes, I think.

00:06:31.84

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah. I got a new phrase now. Snap, snapped your cap. That's, that's a phrase I've never heard before until I heard Ronnie say it this episode, which is, is that li Lily really snapped her cap, meaning that she like went off or like blew her lid or flipped her wig or something.

00:06:48.88

Lindsey Dunn

Oh. I must have, yeah. I didn't get a chance to watch this one the second time. i just enjoyed Army Coke. I think that's, you know, for from now on, I'm just going to be, you know, ask Air Force Coke.

00:06:59.48

Steve Barnes

Air force Coke, air force.

00:07:01.41

Lindsey Dunn

Yes. Thank you.

00:07:02.20

Steve Barnes

They do different stuff in the army. Yeah.

00:07:05.59

Lindsey Dunn

Different liquor choices. Who knows?

00:07:09.64

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Well, I think we'll just go into our Easter egg hunt. And i I have a very small, pathetic

00:07:15.19

Steve Barnes

yeah It sounds good.

00:07:17.82

Lindsey Dunn

egg basket to show you, Steve.

00:07:20.66

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Mine is pretty small too. um I've got two that are my own and then I'll go into some more that ah um I'll give credit to someone else later on, but yeah, I'll let you start Lindsey.

00:07:33.56

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Well, the first one I'm going to say is the boiler room from the first scene.

00:07:41.30

Steve Barnes

Okay. at And Juniper Hill. Okay.

00:07:44.22

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I'm calling the boiler room an Easter egg because It reminded me of The Shining.

00:07:50.68

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:07:51.48

Lindsey Dunn

And, you know, we've had in our previous iterations of It, the book, I don't think we've ever had a boiler room, but I thought it was very appropriate because boiler rooms are bad.

00:08:05.43

Steve Barnes

mm-hmm

00:08:07.67

Lindsey Dunn

We know that from Nightmare on Elm Street, and which is not which is not a King book, but I mean, it's a horror thing.

00:08:10.56

Steve Barnes

sure

00:08:14.11

Lindsey Dunn

And then The Shining seems to be so connected to this world. So I'm just saying that the fact that they went down to the boiler room to talk to this evil person.

00:08:25.99

Steve Barnes

It's funny that I'm such a scaredy cat and i I work in the sewer systems and I work in boiler rooms in these types of places. And yes, I do get the heebie-jeebies when I when I'm in there. Um, okay. Well, my, that's, that's a big Easter egg. I've got room sized Easter egg right there. Um, I've got a smaller one. Um, Teddy Uris's poster. He's, um, they're on the lookout for Teddy Uris. Um, when they showed like some of the wanted posters across town, um, which is significant because you remember last episode, um,

00:09:02.58

Steve Barnes

the other kid's parent, dad attacked Hank. it was like, oh you killed my kids. But the Yurish family doesn't think that Teddy's dead. They think he's missing.

00:09:13.21

Steve Barnes

So I thought that was significant.

00:09:16.28

Lindsey Dunn

Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I saw his poster. Along with Lynn Jones. We don't know who she is. Don't know that name, but that was the other person on the poster.

00:09:27.68

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, well, my second Easter egg is kind of... a It's a projected easter egg Easter egg. I can't really say if it's an Easter egg or not, but it was something that came to mind when I saw something.

00:09:38.55

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:09:42.90

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, so during that song, Running Scared, which is also when you saw the Teddy Urus poster. There were all these little vignettes of people in town doing things.

00:09:49.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:09:52.44

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:09:54.46

Lindsey Dunn

And there there was, in one of these scenes, there's a high schooler.

00:09:55.13

Steve Barnes

I love that.

00:10:01.46

Lindsey Dunn

He's obviously hanging out with his friends, and he's in front of a red truck.

00:10:05.11

Steve Barnes

Yes. Significant.

00:10:06.01

Lindsey Dunn

And he picks up a flyer, and he's showing it to his friends. And I couldn't help but think that that guy looked like Alvin Marsh, Beverly's dad, a young Mr. Marsh.

00:10:18.06

Lindsey Dunn

Now, nobody called him Alvin. I can't say that was him. But based on the fact that we saw that somebody loves Alvin Marsh inside the high school, I was thinking, just like we saw that young guy out on the street that looked like Mr.

00:10:22.29

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:10:28.66

Steve Barnes

High school. Mm-hmm.

00:10:35.38

Lindsey Dunn

Keen, that looked like Alvin Marsh to me.

00:10:36.68

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:10:38.74

Lindsey Dunn

It looked like the guy that they got to play mr Marsh.

00:10:43.86

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Okay. I'll give it to you. As long as you'll, you'll continue to let me have that one, the kid that looked like Richie Tozier that got beat up in episode two. And I said, he looked like Richie.

00:10:55.29

Steve Barnes

Um, as long as you'll give me that one, I'll give you this one. How's that?

00:10:59.35

Lindsey Dunn

Do we have to talk about your Easter eggs from that many weeks ago?

00:11:03.32

Steve Barnes

I mean, well, yeah, I mean, we're, this is a whole collection we've got going. Yeah. ah

00:11:08.50

Lindsey Dunn

and I'm not going to dock any eggs.

00:11:10.68

Steve Barnes

Okay, good, good, good. You didn't dock me that time. So I won't do that do it this time. um Cause I like it. I don't, I don't know if I agree with it, but ah I'm with it. I'm down with it. I'm here for it. That's what the kids say.

00:11:23.61

Steve Barnes

Um, my second Easter egg that I've noticed all by my lonesome. Um, well, I'm just going to shout it out. The Weeblos. We hear that Rich, um, is a Weeblow or he was a Weeblow.

00:11:34.68

Steve Barnes

And you know, I was a boy scout leader. We talk about that a lot. My son earned Eagle Scouts and what a Weeblow is, is he's like the, the path between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

00:11:46.10

Steve Barnes

It's like, you're supposed to start Scouts when you're in first grade. And you're supposed to be a Weeblo by the time you're in the fourth grade and you're a Weeblo for fourth and fifth grade. Then you're supposed to start Boy Scouts in the sixth grade.

00:12:00.41

Steve Barnes

But we know that this kid, Rich, instead of going along with the Scouts, he took up drumming with the band. So that's where his focus went to. But it all goes back to him being a Weeblo.

00:12:14.20

Steve Barnes

That was my Easter egg, Lindsey .

00:12:15.81

Lindsey Dunn

But how is that an Easter egg?

00:12:18.81

Steve Barnes

For the Boy Scouts, if there's any scouts watching, they're like, oh, yay, hey, we'll be loyal scouts, you know?

00:12:25.92

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, so should i say Coke is an Easter egg? Because the people who work for Coke will be excited to see that.

00:12:35.19

Steve Barnes

Yes, Lindsey got another Easter egg. Congrats. ah

00:12:41.27

Lindsey Dunn

and I'm not sure about that being an Easter egg, as Easter eggs connect to the Stephen King universe. But go ahead with your... You said you had another one?

00:12:47.96

Steve Barnes

Stephen King always talks about the Boy Scouts in his books too.

00:12:48.84

Lindsey Dunn

Does

00:12:51.56

Steve Barnes

So actually he does.

00:12:52.28

Lindsey Dunn

he?

00:12:54.38

Steve Barnes

So I'm not, I'm not just making things up, but um yeah.

00:12:55.10

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:12:57.50

Steve Barnes

What you got next, Lindsey , since that was kind of a weak one.

00:12:58.96

Lindsey Dunn

I have nothing.

00:13:00.14

Steve Barnes

Oh, you have nothing.

00:13:00.50

Lindsey Dunn

I have nothing. I mean, okay, since you mentioned Teddy's picture, I'll say that there's a picture of Mrs.

00:13:04.76

Steve Barnes

Okay.

00:13:07.62

Lindsey Dunn

Kirsch inside a window. um

00:13:11.13

Steve Barnes

Oh, like that. um During that whole, the same big net.

00:13:13.62

Lindsey Dunn

when they're During that whole scene, too, they put a pick they put a poster of of Hank Grogan right in front of a black and white picture.

00:13:15.00

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:22.55

Lindsey Dunn

And I think that is in Mr. Kirsch's window. He has a picture of his wife in his meat window, which is a little odd, but okay. He loves his wife.

00:13:31.80

Steve Barnes

Well, they got professional portraits done, you know, that leads to one of my other Easter eggs here.

00:13:32.38

Lindsey Dunn

eight

00:13:36.32

Steve Barnes

And these Easter eggs are brought to you by the YouTube channel, new rock stars, because I watched this video on YouTube and they gave me some Easter eggs.

00:13:36.47

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Okay.

00:13:45.97

Steve Barnes

So I got to give them a shout out the new rock stars. Um, they mentioned the, um, those same pictures that we saw in the book that Lily was looking at it, Ingrid's house.

00:13:57.50

Steve Barnes

One of them was, um, it had a picture that said to nick met McMurtry studios next to it, which is a big Stephen King tie his son. Um, what's his son's name? Joe Hill named his dog McMurtry. And Stephen King's like favorite book of all time is Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove.

00:14:18.58

Steve Barnes

So I think that was a shout out right there. Um, another one that this YouTube channel pointed out was that woman that rich laid a little kiss on at the jazz club, the black spot. He like walks by and kisses one of the pictures as he walks past it.

00:14:36.38

Steve Barnes

And that picture is, um, I didn't, I didn't recognize this and I would not have caught this at all.

00:14:36.36

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:14:41.50

Steve Barnes

Um, it's Sarah Vaughn. She's known as the queen of bebop. Um, A very famous jazz singer. I'm not familiar. I'm not a jazz fan. I'm sorry, Rich, but I'm not. um But that's the woman that he was checking out. um And then there's two really interesting um Salem's a Lot Easter eggs that are in here.

00:15:03.19

Steve Barnes

One of them is when they talk about... at towards the end of the end of the show, when they're talking about getting people together, like we got to get the Boone brothers together.

00:15:13.69

Steve Barnes

The Boone brothers were significant in Salem's lot and their whole family, of the Boone family is the one who founded Jerusalem's lot. And then Cumberland County, which was shouted out also in that book that Ingrid has that her little scrapbook for herself, I guess it's her,

00:15:35.08

Steve Barnes

It's like her baby book, except it's for herself all grown up. um She says in 1908, she and her dad went to Cumberland County in Maine. And that's also where Jerusalem's lot, AKA Salem's lot takes place.

00:15:52.28

Steve Barnes

So those are my so new rock star Easter eggs. So they win this week.

00:16:00.54

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I think I you know probably could have noticed more. Maybe there was stuff more stuff with the black spot, but I didn't have time to do my second watch in front of the screen so that I can see everything. Mm-hmm.

00:16:13.88

Steve Barnes

I mean, this guy had more Easter eggs than this, but these are the ones that I kind of agreed with that are actually Easter eggs.

00:16:16.79

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:16:19.97

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:16:20.80

Steve Barnes

The other ones I knew that you would probably have issue with.

00:16:20.79

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:16:23.99

Steve Barnes

ah So I didn't include any of them. There's wild, you know, pull, pulled out of your hat situations.

00:16:32.57

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Well, we're going to go into our character arcs then. There's luckily, even though we don't have a lot of Easter eggs, there's plenty of good stuff to discuss.

00:16:43.96

Steve Barnes

Oh, dude. Yes. I mean, ah and a little ah ah update.

00:16:45.64

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:16:49.28

Steve Barnes

I told Lindsey before we started recording, I have a nacho chip that's stuck in my gum. It's still there. um So it's I figured I want the listeners.

00:17:00.06

Lindsey Dunn

that is a know That's a Frito-Lay Easter egg for all of you ah for all of you Frito-Lay employees.

00:17:04.28

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yeah.

00:17:07.06

Lindsey Dunn

Give a shout!

00:17:08.66

Steve Barnes

It might be why my voice is a little weird this episode, perhaps, but I just wanted to give you an update, Lindsey . It's still lodged in there.

00:17:15.64

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Well, maybe we'll get an update on your nacho chip at the end of the episode, too, just to verify. Okay.

00:17:22.52

Steve Barnes

Well, like Dick Halloran, I'm like drinking a lot to like loosen it up.

00:17:27.67

Lindsey Dunn

Just don't drink any of that Derry water. Okay,

00:17:30.94

Steve Barnes

Oh, no, no, no.

00:17:34.06

Lindsey Dunn

so we're going to start with the Hanlon family. All right, so let's see. I'm going to start with Will.

00:17:46.68

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, so Will, he's this good kid that's always obeyed his parents, but this time with his friends has become too important to him. And Ronnie, in particular, has become too important.

00:18:02.68

Lindsey Dunn

He doesn't want to be the one who runs. And so he stands up to his father. And his dad does not like it. and ah And puts the full wrath of his anger about that into his hand.

00:18:21.72

Lindsey Dunn

So I was

00:18:25.53

Lindsey Dunn

But it was also, you know, you talked about, I think, yeah, I want to ask you about how you felt about Will because you had said you didn't think his acting was that great before and when he was showing fear.

00:18:38.71

Lindsey Dunn

And he had, he got to show a lot of emotional variety, I felt like, in this episode. Did it did Will's performance do it better for you this time?

00:18:49.70

Steve Barnes

That's an interesting question because

00:18:53.75

Steve Barnes

and i haven't, I did, I've watched this episode twice and I didn't view this through the lens of checking out his acting because I'm, I'm really wrapped up in the story.

00:19:05.68

Lindsey Dunn

That's good.

00:19:06.84

Steve Barnes

It is good. i think that's, that's telling because If his acting was bothering me, then it would have gotten in the way of me enjoying the story because i didn't even consider the fact that he was a good or a bad actor this episode. I just kind of bought it all in because my notes about Will are that, you know, we saw like a real, a full character arc just in this episode alone.

00:19:34.97

Steve Barnes

where I believe we're watching will become a man. We're watching his formative days in this very episode where he's like realizing he's in love and he's standing up to his dad and he's, you know, he's determined in his stance with Ronnie, like on multiple occasions, I was just impressed with the kid this episode.

00:19:42.29

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:19:59.80

Steve Barnes

and um, Yeah, this whole thing about his dad hitting him that you that you kind of touched on a little bit there. um i got the sense that this is the first time that's happened.

00:20:12.89

Steve Barnes

And I also got a sense that that that happened because of Derry, of the Derry influence of the town.

00:20:12.85

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:20:21.69

Steve Barnes

And I don't forgive Leroy for doing this because, you know, hitting is hitting is a choice. It always is And losing your temper on your kid is common.

00:20:33.24

Steve Barnes

Your kid saying, you know, terrible things to you is going to happen. I'm sure Will has said terrible things in his childhood. Like most kids like end up saying stuff in anger or in sadness or whatever. It doesn't deserve getting hit.

00:20:49.02

Steve Barnes

I don't necessarily blame Leroy for that because I know the town has gotten to him. But on the the other hand, I do kind of blame him for that because I'm just the type of person that like, that's a boundary I don't cross and I don't expect anybody else to cross it either.

00:21:05.75

Steve Barnes

So when a character in a show I like, who I get the sense that he's never done this before, I'm like, you shouldn't start this now. And Charlotte agrees with me. She's packing her bags. So I think she kind of agrees.

00:21:19.61

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, i it was It was a tough episode to watch, I feel like. I mean, we know that Leroy is upset about losing Paul...

00:21:31.70

Lindsey Dunn

Paul...

00:21:32.91

Steve Barnes

Pauly, give him some cred.

00:21:32.96

Lindsey Dunn

Polly... Polly.

00:21:34.55

Steve Barnes

Come on.

00:21:35.06

Lindsey Dunn

I don't... All of a sudden... mind See, my nephew's name... My new nephew's name is Paul, and they call him Polly as a nickname, so I got confused there for for for a bit.

00:21:42.61

Steve Barnes

Oh, cool.

00:21:45.06

Lindsey Dunn

um But that but he ok so he's upset about that.

00:21:46.80

Steve Barnes

He's named to honor Pauly, right? Yes.

00:21:54.90

Lindsey Dunn

But also, it's not just that. like The mission went really bad.

00:21:59.00

Steve Barnes

Sure.

00:21:59.06

Lindsey Dunn

And Leroy is a person that believes in excellence, always tries to give 100%. So this is really throwing him for from a loop that he's participated in this thing that went really bad.

00:22:13.02

Lindsey Dunn

and the man without fear has somehow gotten his tail feathers in a tizzle. He was confronted with this thing in the tunnel and things went horribly wrong, so he did the unthinkable and hid his son.

00:22:22.94

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:22:25.72

Lindsey Dunn

He then goes to Dick Halloran to try to squeeze more juice out of him, but Dick's having his own problems and isn't about to be pushed around by Major Hanlon and when he's got big fish to fry his own.

00:22:39.00

Lindsey Dunn

Charlotte You know, she's got the mom instincts have kicked in. We've talked about her being, she's been activated. She was socially activated when she heard about Hank, but now she's activated as a mom.

00:22:49.98

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:22:52.98

Lindsey Dunn

And once she sees Leroy hit their son, it's game over. She didn't say anything right then, but she will not stand for it and is ready to show her discontent with action.

00:23:06.10

Lindsey Dunn

um So she's ready to pack and actually leave. She's Yes, temporarily. It's not like she's saying, I'm leaving you. We're getting a divorce. But she's like, you take care of this.

00:23:14.78

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:23:19.18

Lindsey Dunn

I'm interested how this is going to go down, though, because it might be that the black spot interrupts all of this stuff happening anyway, because we don't know how quickly that's all going to go down.

00:23:26.74

Steve Barnes

I'm sure it will.

00:23:30.53

Lindsey Dunn

It seems to be already going down. um But if her plan was her plan seemed to be to take Will and to go somewhere else, back to Shreveport.

00:23:41.11

Steve Barnes

And Hank, she was going to, she's going take Will and Hank. So, so she, mm-hmm.

00:23:45.43

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, okay. So she was going to take him and Will, but will wouldn't what would Will have said about that?

00:23:49.54

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:23:52.90

Lindsey Dunn

he's not Well, I guess if she's taking Hank, Ronnie's going to be there too.

00:23:57.11

Steve Barnes

Right. And yeah, we'll probably, i don't, I don't think we'll would say anything about that. Like if the, they don't know the black spots going to happen. So let's pretend in this conversation that they don't know the black spots going to happen.

00:24:08.72

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:10.59

Steve Barnes

I think that, you know, we'll would happily go along with his mom and Hank and Ronnie. And say, yeah, I'll deal with my dad later. Maybe, you know, him and Ronnie will probably have a conversation about that in the car, about his dad hitting them and stuff. And maybe he'll come to terms with that.

00:24:29.91

Steve Barnes

But I don't think he'd have any qualms about leaving Derry along with Hank and Ronnie.

00:24:36.54

Lindsey Dunn

Well, he seemed so you think mainly that his concern then is for Ronnie because he's made it clear several times that he doesn't want to leave his friends. They took him off the base.

00:24:45.66

Steve Barnes

Oh, that's right.

00:24:46.84

Lindsey Dunn

They took him out of the city and went to the base and he didn't like it. And he's saying, my friend, I have friends.

00:24:51.38

Steve Barnes

Ah, yeah. Yeah.

00:24:52.70

Lindsey Dunn

My friends need me. I can't leave them. So do we think that it's really about Ronnie and he would just leave Rich and Marge and Lily with without any help?

00:24:57.40

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:25:04.54

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:25:05.02

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know.

00:25:06.10

Steve Barnes

That would be a big dilemma that his mom would have to face. Yeah.

00:25:09.69

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Take all my friends.

00:25:12.50

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Like, yeah, there's friends leave your parents behind. Marge's parents won't care that that she's left with a strange group,

00:25:22.53

Lindsey Dunn

huh

00:25:23.70

Steve Barnes

but let's see. I wanted to say a couple of things about what you said about, um, Charlotte as well.

00:25:28.47

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:25:29.27

Steve Barnes

Um, Yeah. So she, she's made up her mind here to pack up her bags to help Hank. And yeah, she didn't say that she was going to leave him, but she said that he needed to make things right.

00:25:41.53

Steve Barnes

And he was like, baby, that's what I'm trying to do. And she's like, you need to make things right with your son, with will, right?

00:25:47.16

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:25:48.66

Steve Barnes

So ah that's kind of like a little thing they left hanging there at the end that we didn't get to see get resolved, of course, in this episode. But that's kind of Charlotte seems like she has two goals here to to have her men.

00:26:03.02

Steve Barnes

be on good terms with each other to help out Hank. And I guess third is to get away from this town. She'd rather be in Shreveport, Louisiana, where she was battling racism than be here in Derry. So I think that's significant.

00:26:20.66

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I also found it interesting that she decided to go ahead and tell Leroy about Hank's hideout at the black spot.

00:26:32.02

Lindsey Dunn

um Maybe she felt that hiding things wasn't, you know, hiding things can take a toll, but she's also unhappy enough that she isn't worried about upsetting Leroy.

00:26:44.15

Lindsey Dunn

ah So might as well say one

00:26:46.57

Steve Barnes

Well, she has...

00:26:48.41

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I mean, she has the right to be upset, but I thought it was... She she could have... mean, because we don't know how Leroy's going to react to this. Obviously, he's probably going to go to the black spot because maybe he figures if Ronnie's there, his son will be there. He wants to make things right with his son He'll go.

00:27:10.55

Lindsey Dunn

um But obviously, Leroy's not going to be in favor of him hiding out, so...

00:27:17.94

Steve Barnes

Well, mean, I feel like that, you know, Leroy, his argument, when he lost his argument with Charlotte and when he lost his argument with um Dick Halloran, which we'll talk about in a bit here, but in both cases, he he lost both of them when he started talking about the bigger picture.

00:27:37.63

Steve Barnes

Like, we're doing this for our country.

00:27:39.97

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:27:40.23

Steve Barnes

We're doing this because it's the right thing to do. And that's when he lost both of them.

00:27:45.30

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

00:27:45.53

Steve Barnes

Because in both cases, they both feel like he should have been a little more sympathetic and more family minded or more single singular minded, I suppose, instead of doing it for the greater good, do it for us, your family, which is a losing argument, of course.

00:28:02.49

Steve Barnes

But with Charlotte, some of the things we're talking about here, She has her own mission that she is on as well, that she feels her mission is also for the greater good, the things that she's doing. So she's just as driven as Leroy is.

00:28:21.21

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, this is where their conflicts really come out. We've talked about their differences or what perhaps attract them to each other, but when it when it comes to...

00:28:34.81

Lindsey Dunn

you know she's She usually goes along with Leroy, but when something is important enough, she's not afraid to stand up to him.

00:28:39.26

Steve Barnes

00:28:45.40

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:28:45.98

Lindsey Dunn

So... this has reached that that level here. um One more thing about Will I thought was a little heartbreaking is the scene when he and Ronnie go with Charlotte to reunite with Hank.

00:29:03.26

Lindsey Dunn

And he sees Ronnie being embraced and cared for by her father. And he had this look on his face. And i i felt that in that moment,

00:29:14.26

Lindsey Dunn

he was thinking, I wish I had that kind of relationship with my dad. And that was that was really sad.

00:29:20.54

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:29:22.94

Steve Barnes

Okay. I didn't catch that. I would think that, you know, he has a great relationship. He has that kind of relationship with his mom. So, I mean, i don't know. Good luck with what you got there, Will. Come on.

00:29:36.12

Steve Barnes

and

00:29:36.92

Lindsey Dunn

Right. But I mean, even if you even if you have a good relationship with one parent, you might also like a good relationship with the other parents. So yes, he's not, he doesn't have that, but it was, you know, he'd just been hit by his dad and they're having these arguments.

00:29:46.14

Steve Barnes

Absolutely. Sure.

00:29:54.02

Lindsey Dunn

And then he sees Ronnie being held and embraced by her dad. And he's like, we're never going to be separated again. I love you. miss you so much. And, and he just, he looked really bummed.

00:30:04.12

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:30:07.96

Lindsey Dunn

And Charlotte kind of puts her hand on his shoulder so she's, you know, she can tell she's with him then that moment, knowing what he's thinking.

00:30:16.57

Steve Barnes

You know what I got from that, from that same moment was, um, yeah, of course, Ronnie and Hank are reunited. And then Charlotte looks over at Will and she's like, Hey, you want to have a moment too? Hey, what do you say?

00:30:30.07

Steve Barnes

that's that's kind of what I got from it. Like, I don't know. Like she was like, Hey, you want to talk about this morning? Like they're having a ah family moment. Why don't we have one too while we're here? So I don't know. i thought that was like a little, like a little competition like you and I have with our Easter egg hunt.

00:30:48.02

Lindsey Dunn

Who's going to have the best parents?

00:30:50.29

Steve Barnes

That's right. You can hug him the hardest.

00:30:50.68

Lindsey Dunn

No, I mean...

00:30:55.71

Lindsey Dunn

Alright, well, let's move on to Dick Halloran.

00:31:00.76

Steve Barnes

Yeah. I don't think he cares about this new mission brief that Leroy throws on his bed there.

00:31:05.85

Lindsey Dunn

Nope.

00:31:09.53

Steve Barnes

He's a tortured man drowning and alcohol drawn in drowning that pain away. This is kind of like what Danny was going through and um in the whole book, ah Dr. Sleep, where he was using alcoholism to like block his pain and block the

00:31:20.34

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:31:25.88

Steve Barnes

the scary monsters and the ghosts away. And that's exactly what Dick's doing now that he's stuck seeing them all.

00:31:34.20

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he's not doing well right now.

00:31:38.38

Steve Barnes

I'm not doing well for the first time.

00:31:39.05

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:31:41.69

Steve Barnes

Like he says, like when he, he like lock these ghosts up when he was nine years old. And now we're seeing like, he's probably like 25, guess.

00:31:53.30

Steve Barnes

so like I don't know, like 20 years has gone by and now he's seeing these scary ghosts everywhere he looks again.

00:31:55.77

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:32:01.26

Steve Barnes

It's creepy.

00:32:02.30

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:32:03.13

Steve Barnes

He plays it well too.

00:32:03.26

Lindsey Dunn

he has this yeah He has this big confrontation with Leroy where the two of them have a meeting of the minds. I... liked that scene between them.

00:32:13.91

Lindsey Dunn

And we've talked about, we've talked about, oh, will they understand each other?

00:32:14.30

Steve Barnes

Me too. Mm-hmm.

00:32:18.87

Lindsey Dunn

Are they going to work together? And I kind of thought that was happening until, until um it's kind of made clear that Leroy's not really listening to what Dick Halloran has told him.

00:32:22.87

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:32:32.51

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:32:33.72

Lindsey Dunn

Because just like, just like that one week when I said, hey, Lily, you should have led with Marge. how are you doing, girl? Are you okay?

00:32:43.58

Steve Barnes

Exactly.

00:32:44.17

Lindsey Dunn

before you Before you went into, what did you tell them about me?

00:32:44.30

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:32:48.44

Lindsey Dunn

um you know, Dick Halloran has just shared something very personal and vulnerable about his life.

00:32:56.72

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:32:56.82

Lindsey Dunn

And Leroy doesn't take the time to address it at all. He's just kind of like, all right, what do we need to do what do we need to do now to go into our next mission? Or how how can we how can we go to the next step?

00:33:11.58

Lindsey Dunn

He didn't really take the time to empathize with his new colleague. And yes, there are military people, there's duty and all that, but Leroy missed an opportunity again to show the softer side of Sears.

00:33:29.08

Steve Barnes

He wasn't that bad. I mean... Through the course of the conversation, you know, he was, sometimes he was saying the right things and he was asking the right questions and he was responding in the appropriate way.

00:33:37.88

Lindsey Dunn

Yes.

00:33:43.55

Steve Barnes

And he was even taking time to like, think about what he was going to ask beforehand. I think he just said like the exact wrong sentence at the exact wrong time.

00:33:54.58

Steve Barnes

And if he had just simply kept his mouth shut, you know, that the it wouldve it would have ended much differently. But instead, like, you know, he just chose the wrong words, not because he was being spiteful or wrong-sided or anything, because I got the sense that he was being very sympathetic in this conversation.

00:34:15.63

Lindsey Dunn

I think he was trying to understand him better. like i like I agree with you that I like the questions he was asking. But then, i guess, especially after Dick Halloran says,

00:34:29.11

Lindsey Dunn

did you listen to anything I said? You know, like, he... He... He's like, okay, poor you. I'm sorry you have this, but we gotta to move on to the next step. We gotta to go find the pillars.

00:34:44.86

Lindsey Dunn

And... That means...

00:34:47.10

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he was, yeah.

00:34:47.66

Lindsey Dunn

That means that Dick Halloran has to put himself in the line of fire, too, and he's seeing all these dead people, and that must be pretty terrifying. So... um Maybe he could have offered, the only thing he could have done differently is to say like, all right, well, how can I support you? Or what can you, what happened? How do you handle it when this happens?

00:35:13.08

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, I know he's not paid to be a therapist, but he, um I mean, I think Dick Halloran seems to be not exactly interested in this mission anymore, like you said.

00:35:25.78

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:35:26.10

Lindsey Dunn

um So he's not in the mental space to be like, all right, let's get back to work. He wants to drink and forget it for a little bit. um So maybe if nothing else, Leroy could have said, all right, I'll check back with you in 24 hours, bro.

00:35:34.46

Steve Barnes

Mm hmm.

00:35:39.80

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:35:41.18

Lindsey Dunn

I'll let you sleep this off.

00:35:43.90

Steve Barnes

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

00:35:44.82

Lindsey Dunn

excuse me

00:35:45.33

Steve Barnes

Like, that's all he had to do was just give him more time, like just not rushing to wrapping up the conversation or bringing the conversation back to the mission. You know, sometimes the conversation doesn't need to be wrapped up like that.

00:35:58.33

Steve Barnes

Sometimes it, you can let things rest a little bit and yeah, he's, he being Dick is definitely being used. Like, cause he says, you know, either, either you can help with this mission or you can leave in handcuffs.

00:36:14.55

Steve Barnes

So he's like, if he doesn't, if he doesn't like play along, then he's going to be court-martialed.

00:36:16.50

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:36:21.26

Steve Barnes

So it's like, he's in a terrible situation here. And yeah, Leroy should have been a little more sympathetic about that because Dick is aware of this situation. He knows, but there's no reason to like end the conversation that way.

00:36:35.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. i mean, he's already got to play nice with General Shaw and be the obedient um the be obedient person to him.

00:36:47.00

Lindsey Dunn

Major Hanlon is the superior officer. He's got more more authority. But perhaps Dick Halloran feels, man, i already have to already have to go by this white but this white general's rules and him being,

00:37:04.67

Lindsey Dunn

dangling these privileges over my head. Not you too, man. Like, not you two Not ready for that yet.

00:37:12.69

Steve Barnes

That was one of my laugh out loud moments was when he's sitting on the floor drinking and Leroy comes in and then like Dick, like gives him this like half ass salute while he's drinking, sitting on the floor.

00:37:17.34

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:37:24.79

Steve Barnes

I mean, that was, that made me LOL. I don't know. um I thought that the moment and when he was at the black spot, when he came and he was looking for some liquor and, um, this is before he had confronted Hank.

00:37:43.10

Steve Barnes

And it's apparent that he's, that he sees a ghost. Like two of his friends are like, Hey man, everything okay with you? And he's reacting as if he's seeing something behind his two friends.

00:37:54.87

Steve Barnes

But we, the viewers, don't see anything there. Because I rewound that scene. Like, what's going on? Like, we don't see whatever Dick saw. But we just saw his reaction to it along with his friends. So i thought that was kind of a neat way to show that little scary part without showing the scare at all.

00:38:15.58

Steve Barnes

And the fact that like he started getting like the floor got wet on his feet right there.

00:38:15.81

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:38:22.20

Steve Barnes

Like at first I thought he, he just pants of course.

00:38:23.77

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:38:27.19

Steve Barnes

And then we found out it's because of the refrigerators leaking or it's defrosting or something. But then it reminded me of like the, uh,

00:38:33.43

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:38:37.21

Steve Barnes

first off the moment from Dr. Sleep when Danny pees his pants, when he sees a ghost and he's standing there and he sees a ghost and he pees his pants and it's the exact same shot of the shoes.

00:38:48.66

Steve Barnes

But it's also when he's in the plane and he starts seeing like water under his feet at the plane. And then he starts seeing the water under his feet there at the fridge.

00:39:00.47

Steve Barnes

And I guess it's all kind of reminding him of the sewers, I suppose. Because it seems like you reacted strongly to that water scene.

00:39:06.83

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:39:11.29

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. He was also, when he was, I noticed when he was doing his telling major Hanlon, his story, he was sitting on a bed with his legs spread out.

00:39:26.74

Lindsey Dunn

And I think maybe he had bare feet and that's, um, there's a scene in the shining like that, where he's, when he's at the hotel, um

00:39:29.48

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:39:35.77

Steve Barnes

Oh,

00:39:37.59

Lindsey Dunn

he's when he's not He's not at the Overlook Hotel, but he's in his own place.

00:39:41.40

Steve Barnes

yeah. Yes. I know exactly you're talking about.

00:39:42.94

Lindsey Dunn

his own maybe yeah and he Then he sees the vision of Danny, and that's why he decides to go. But it's kind of filmed in that same way.

00:39:49.21

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:39:52.27

Lindsey Dunn

So I thought that was a cool way to to pay homage to that.

00:39:52.81

Steve Barnes

You're right.

00:39:56.57

Steve Barnes

More Easter eggs.

00:39:57.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:39:58.20

Steve Barnes

00:39:58.33

Lindsey Dunn

A couple other character beats for him, too. you know He wasn't too happy to find out that Hank is there.

00:40:04.64

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:40:04.63

Lindsey Dunn

And it seemed like he was ready to really give him the boot. But once he sees Ronnie come in and be so excited about her dad, he stands down about making a fuss.

00:40:08.21

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:40:16.76

Steve Barnes

I laughed at that moment too, because he looks, he's like, Oh God damn it.

00:40:16.73

Lindsey Dunn

So I thought that was...

00:40:21.02

Steve Barnes

Now I can't kick Hank out.

00:40:24.69

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, so that was interesting. And, oh the other thing I wanted to say is I i thought it was interesting that They show him kind of during this thing, he's kind of in and out of the party walking by, but he's not really hang trying to hang out with the party.

00:40:40.09

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:40:44.41

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:40:44.60

Lindsey Dunn

And i was thinking, yeah, one of the things that his party friends helped him do is drown out the noise. He, and he was a cook. He can be near the chaos chaos without being in the chaos because it's a noisy environment

00:40:58.14

Steve Barnes

Okay. ah

00:41:01.78

Steve Barnes

Right. Mm-hmm.

00:41:02.42

Lindsey Dunn

So even if the like dead people are talking to him, he doesn't, he doesn't hear it. But I did think it was creepy the way he was saying that I don't talk to them and then they don't bother me.

00:41:18.55

Lindsey Dunn

But if I do talk to them, they will not stop talking.

00:41:23.51

Steve Barnes

Right. I thought that was a very creepy too. And I thought was very telling the way he said that they know things that we don't know. That's that's I think that's when Leroy jumped in like, oh, what do they know? They know the stuff about the pillars. And Dick's like, no, they know things. They know things, man. So, yeah, I think that's I'd like to know what kind of things he's talking about there, like things about the afterlife, meant things about the before life. um You know, ghosts must know all kinds of stuff that we don't know.

00:41:55.81

Lindsey Dunn

It's too horrible to share, Steve. You don't want to know.

00:42:00.89

Steve Barnes

I wanted to call back to Leroy real quick, cause we were talking about how we hit will. And I think we made it clear that like the town is getting angry and like Leroy is part of that. He was getting, he's getting kind of like built up from the town.

00:42:16.92

Steve Barnes

The kids are fighting and stuff. And we, you, you were, the reason I'm saying this because I remember and when you were talking about Dick Halloran, like walking through the black spot and he's kind of like drunk.

00:42:28.50

Steve Barnes

So you get that drunk vision while he's kind of like walking through everywhere.

00:42:28.97

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:42:33.56

Steve Barnes

um It was getting pretty hedonistic, hedonistic in there too. And bartenders serving kids drinks. I think this is all tied in with like Derry working the town's emotions up and everybody kind of like,

00:42:51.19

Steve Barnes

not not following their best instincts.

00:42:55.70

Lindsey Dunn

right I mean, I thought it was interesting that Leroy, you know, Will says it's gotten to you too.

00:43:03.10

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:43:03.61

Lindsey Dunn

But they moved out of the town, so they're not drinking the Derry water anymore. But is it like he's already drank too much of the water?

00:43:12.06

Steve Barnes

He was close to it.

00:43:12.21

Lindsey Dunn

Are you?

00:43:13.22

Steve Barnes

If you're close to it and encounter it, then it affects you.

00:43:16.01

Lindsey Dunn

That's right.

00:43:17.14

Steve Barnes

So he just encountered it, basically.

00:43:20.78

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:43:23.00

Steve Barnes

So yeah, sorry. you and Yeah, yeah they're even though they're on the outskirts of town, they're they're still definitely affected.

00:43:29.98

Lindsey Dunn

yeah so do you think that's true do you think that Leroy got taken over by the spirit of it in that moment

00:43:40.41

Steve Barnes

I think this episode is showing everybody is being affected by it. i'm I'm being serious when I think that the people in the club, like getting crazy and wild has something to do with that.

00:43:51.67

Steve Barnes

The townsfolk are getting crazy and wild wanting Hank's head. The kids are even getting fractured and arguing amongst themselves. So yes, a hundred percent.

00:44:01.14

Lindsey Dunn

her

00:44:03.39

Steve Barnes

I think everybody is being affected by it in this episode.

00:44:07.19

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. Just drink milk, everybody. Just drink milk.

00:44:10.52

Steve Barnes

Exactly. Yes. Or pickle or pickle juice.

00:44:12.73

Lindsey Dunn

Or whiskey. Pickle juice.

00:44:15.58

Steve Barnes

ah Hey, reunion, of the black spot.

00:44:18.48

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. So we're going to move on to the Grogan's. We've got Hank.

00:44:24.61

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:44:24.86

Lindsey Dunn

And we've got Ronnie.

00:44:27.06

Steve Barnes

Heck yeah.

00:44:28.25

Lindsey Dunn

So I thought I thought it was so funny that when they were at the standpipe, Ronnie finally did it. She talked about what we said last week, Steve.

00:44:40.06

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:44:40.14

Lindsey Dunn

She said, why should we listen to you Lily's got a new plan.

00:44:44.82

Steve Barnes

that

00:44:46.16

Lindsey Dunn

She's got a new weapon. She's ready to go back to the sewers and maybe use it.

00:44:49.64

Steve Barnes

Yep.

00:44:51.03

Lindsey Dunn

And Ronnie says, uh-uh, no way. i'm not I don't want to do that.

00:44:55.29

Steve Barnes

Nope. ah

00:44:57.15

Lindsey Dunn

It's kind of your fault that A lot of stuff happened. People start pointing fingers.

00:45:01.99

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

00:45:04.06

Lindsey Dunn

And, you know, Ronnie's doing it to Lily. li Lily's lily is doing it back to her. But I thought that was funny because that was our point. Maybe somebody else come up with the plan.

00:45:12.06

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Yes. So I'm so glad that Ronnie pointed that out. I mean, angrily, and I guess she pissed Lily off too. She called Lily crazy. It's not great to call your friends like names that they're sensitive to like that.

00:45:26.58

Steve Barnes

But I mean, the cat's out of the bag, I suppose that she did that and they're going to have to, i mean, they're going to have to like reunite at some point if they want to get their semi losers club back together.

00:45:39.38

Steve Barnes

Um, But yeah, Ronnie and Hank, first ah first off, yeah, let me go into Hank real quick here. You said we saw all Hank's posters going up all over town. Everybody's whipped in a frenzy now because there's a $500 reward for Hank. Big deal. But everybody wants that money, I suppose.

00:46:01.24

Steve Barnes

And it's significant how everybody is overlooking the the lost kid posters and they're more focused on... the The Hank Grogan poster, they want to get revenge. they you know The kids are an afterthought in this situation.

00:46:19.05

Lindsey Dunn

Right. That's true. They're sort of forgetting about those kiddos.

00:46:24.76

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I mean.

00:46:24.98

Lindsey Dunn

And they're more worried about getting that $500 reward. what just What does that ah go to with inflation? What would that... what would that

00:46:34.09

Steve Barnes

It's about 5,000. I've already looked it up.

00:46:36.38

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Good good on you.

00:46:38.36

Steve Barnes

So it's not even really that much. I mean, I guess it's, I guess it is significant, but it's, I don't know. I wouldn't want to burn a building down to get that much money. I'll tell you that. But yeah.

00:46:49.94

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, but Hank here gets, he has a chance to be a normal dad a little bit. You know, he's he's there at the black spot, but they bring Ronnie, and it looks like they're they've set up a a lean-to situation where they're both sitting back there.

00:47:06.32

Lindsey Dunn

So then um he gets then he gets a chance to meet Will and be like, who's this who's this gentleman that my daughter is now, is his...

00:47:11.38

Steve Barnes

ah Oh.

00:47:17.60

Lindsey Dunn

is now, uh, you guys are spending time together, huh?

00:47:22.84

Steve Barnes

What's your favorite movie, son?

00:47:24.66

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I love that.

00:47:25.46

Steve Barnes

Who's your favorite director?

00:47:25.70

Lindsey Dunn

I was like, yes, exactly.

00:47:27.22

Steve Barnes

but

00:47:27.74

Lindsey Dunn

That's, that's what I'm gonna do. I don't have any kids, but if I did, i would be like, yeah, what's your favorite movie? Show me what you're made of.

00:47:35.61

Steve Barnes

i I can tell you right now, I'm i always disappointed by that with my kids and their friends because they're not into the same stuff I'm meant into at all.

00:47:46.81

Lindsey Dunn

Well, they don't need it. It's not about what the answer is. It's do they have an answer and why? you know Do they answer that way?

00:47:55.41

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

00:47:56.90

Lindsey Dunn

Because i met somebody at Thanksgiving dinner this week. They were asking, what is one of your they people always ask me, what's your favorite movie?

00:48:07.58

Lindsey Dunn

Which I hate that question because i'm like, you know, ask me what my favorite movie is in the genre or what my favorite movie is that to make me laugh or whatever. You know, you have to be more specific.

00:48:20.79

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:48:21.02

Lindsey Dunn

But he mentioned his favorite genre was romantic comedies. And that's not always the answer i get, you know, hear from guys.

00:48:31.00

Steve Barnes

sure

00:48:31.29

Lindsey Dunn

so I asked him, what is, why do you like that genre? And, And he had a very thoughtful answer. So I appreciated that. Even though rom-coms isn't my favorite, I have some I like.

00:48:42.87

Steve Barnes

Right.

00:48:44.64

Lindsey Dunn

But do you at least have something to say about your taste other than, oh, it's good or it's a good, you know.

00:48:51.96

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:48:55.26

Steve Barnes

I would.

00:48:55.26

Lindsey Dunn

Can you verbalize?

00:48:55.54

Steve Barnes

mut

00:48:56.14

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, can you verbalize your reasoning about that?

00:48:59.77

Steve Barnes

I mean, I don't know. I would rather get asked what's your favorite movie than the the typical conversation starters that I get are questions like, what's up?

00:49:10.79

Steve Barnes

What you been up to? How's work?

00:49:13.98

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:49:14.07

Steve Barnes

I don't have any answers for those questions.

00:49:14.18

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:49:16.31

Steve Barnes

i don't even know how to begin to answer those types of questions. So I i like specificity as well. I can tell you that. But um let's see, Ronnie, she's not in school. Like the the kids are in school one day and they note that she's not there.

00:49:32.18

Steve Barnes

It's because she's there hanging out with her dad. And it's kind of an open secret that Hank's there at the black spot. Like we, you know, we talked about this last episode or maybe the episode before that. And I think we pretty much said exactly this, like this is a exactly what's going to end up happening is he's going to be at the black spot hanging out there and everybody's going to find out.

00:49:54.00

Steve Barnes

It's exactly how it played out. I think at one point, um, rich says to Marge or maybe vice versa, um, just a few of my dad's friends or just a few of the guys know about this hangout spot. And it's like, no, the place is very popular. And like, there's like 40 people there and probably even more know about this place and you kids are all talking about it.

00:50:20.18

Steve Barnes

So, very much an open secret. I think by design. I think if they had kept that secret a little too tight, then it, Pennywise, the town, the the mojo of the town, would have would have gotten that information to the right people somehow.

00:50:39.99

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

00:50:41.53

Steve Barnes

Because it's a lot smarter than it seems. It's not just like... a scary clown that runs fast with big teeth, like diet it's diabolical and it multitasks and it plans these things out very well.

00:50:55.29

Steve Barnes

And I think that's part of the plan that the townsfolk will figure out that Hank's there and the bar will be full of people, you know, being debaucherous.

00:51:09.88

Lindsey Dunn

i mean But people are debaucherous at bars on any given day. it's not i don't I don't think they're extra debaucherous because of what's going on with...

00:51:15.06

Steve Barnes

Oh, sure.

00:51:18.10

Steve Barnes

ah they were dirty dancing. Did you see that dirty dancing?

00:51:20.28

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I did, but do are you that but that's probably a normal behavior.

00:51:21.46

Steve Barnes

They were dancing sexy.

00:51:27.48

Steve Barnes

I don't think I didn't get the sense of that. That was happening at the Falcon.

00:51:32.86

Lindsey Dunn

the falcon is the Falcon is a different kind of establishment.

00:51:32.98

Steve Barnes

You know what I mean?

00:51:37.05

Steve Barnes

00:51:37.02

Lindsey Dunn

It is not a jazz club. where there's dancing. um But yeah, I thought it was, just to go back to Hank for a second with the movie, I thought, you know, usually when somebody meets their daughter's boyfriend, they do not ask in their favorite movie.

00:51:55.68

Lindsey Dunn

So I just thought that was a great character moment.

00:51:56.73

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:51:57.92

Lindsey Dunn

They say, what do you have planned what are your plans, son? Or what are you plan on doing with the rest of your life?

00:52:01.30

Steve Barnes

here

00:52:04.36

Lindsey Dunn

Or something like that. um How will you?

00:52:07.35

Steve Barnes

Yeah, i was I've asked my kids' partners, you know, what what kind of music do you guys like?

00:52:08.17

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:52:13.37

Lindsey Dunn

00:52:13.72

Steve Barnes

Do you go to concerts? That's always my leading questions is music questions. So I'm a little bit of Hank in that respect too, I suppose.

00:52:21.69

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. then And it was, you know, Will, all he can think of is the movie they watched it. Was it Boy Scouts? say he what he

00:52:33.04

Steve Barnes

War of Worlds?

00:52:33.88

Lindsey Dunn

Right. He said War the Worlds. He watched it at like a ah boys camp, I think is what he said.

00:52:39.48

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's what he said.

00:52:40.12

Lindsey Dunn

he said the War of the Worlds. which I had to look, I looked it up. It's a 1953 movie. mean, I know what it's about, but it came out 1953, the first film version.

00:52:52.98

Lindsey Dunn

And of course it's about earth being invaded by Martians, but they're very, ah they're very well-equipped Martians. They have a lot of technology.

00:53:03.51

Lindsey Dunn

So I thought that was, it's an appropriate movie to think about during this moment in history.

00:53:10.90

Steve Barnes

Yeah. And speaking of Will talking to Hank about his favorite movie, War of the Worlds, I was saying earlier about how Will's, you know, going through a real arc here, kind of turned it into a man and the way he's telling Ronnie and her dad, like, yeah, I'm not going to let anything bad happen to you guys. And the way he kind of says it and the way he kind of like thinks about it for a second. And he's like, yeah, I'm really not going to let anything bad happen to them. I think it's almost like he decides like, yeah, I'm going to stick to that word.

00:53:42.94

Steve Barnes

um So, you know, I appreciate it. We'll all the way through.

00:53:47.35

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, maybe he just realized that in that moment.

00:53:50.62

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:53:52.70

Lindsey Dunn

So Hank helped him realize that.

00:53:56.33

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:53:59.22

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, that was nice. It's a nice little interaction there. Okay, we are going to now move on to our pirate and our knight, Rich and Marge.

00:54:08.98

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah.

00:54:11.74

Steve Barnes

Yeah. A lot of strong feelings for these two here. They're, I mean, everything about their interactions. I loved their lunchroom scene, their standpipe scene together where he, you know, he's not afraid of her eye.

00:54:26.90

Steve Barnes

um He's actually enraptured by her even more. It's like her, her, her busted eye. is like a chance for them. It's like an entryway for them to like become a couple because he, he shows his tenderness by like caring for her.

00:54:44.60

Steve Barnes

And then he brings, he's being thoughtful. He brings her like an eye patch later on. Um, he's impressing her with the drums and she's enjoying drinking and enjoying his company.

00:54:57.05

Steve Barnes

I can't say enough great things about these guys. I got, I got a whole bunch of notes that I'm probably not going to say, but like I wrote down everything that was cute about them and it's a lot of things here.

00:55:06.68

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, do we think Rich is a medic in training? I mean, he was... and he it was

00:55:11.54

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:55:13.24

Lindsey Dunn

Now, and um I wasn't too fond of the fact that he used his spit to moisten the bandage, but...

00:55:18.46

Steve Barnes

Nobody was fond of that. ah

00:55:23.08

Lindsey Dunn

But I... They taught him that... Apparently that's what they taught him in the Weeblos, so you have to it. Mm-hmm.

00:55:29.50

Steve Barnes

Science is always changing according to will. And I mean, Marge was at first resistant, but then she was okay with it. She's okay with Rich's spit. So that tells you a little something about how she feels about him.

00:55:42.58

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, Marge, I mean, she she was quick to apologize last week, but she just keeps getting cooler and cooler ever with every moment.

00:55:52.44

Steve Barnes

Oh my God.

00:55:54.74

Lindsey Dunn

I liked how she, you know, Rich was pretty embarrassed. He wasn't sure he was confident enough to tell this girl that he had peed in a jar because he was too scared to use the bathroom.

00:56:08.41

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:56:09.14

Lindsey Dunn

um But she turns it around and says, hey, that's what the knights used to do. all of a sudden it's cool to pee in a jar.

00:56:14.26

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:56:16.95

Steve Barnes

Chamber pots. That's right.

00:56:18.71

Lindsey Dunn

hmm. Yeah.

00:56:19.92

Steve Barnes

So you guys are there driving in your white trucks with logos on the side that, you know, there's no bathrooms around. You got to pee in a bottle. It's just like a chamber pot, just like the Knights did back in the old days.

00:56:30.71

Steve Barnes

So.

00:56:31.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. And I remembered he was in a marching the marching band, but I didn't remember that his instrument was drums. so that was So that was kind of fun that he just happens to have his drumsticks in his back pocket pocket when needed.

00:56:41.37

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

00:56:45.62

Steve Barnes

Well, if you go back to episode two, when Will comes to town and they meet up in the hallway, they, they stuck a drum next to, next to rich.

00:56:51.32

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:56:54.71

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:56:54.90

Steve Barnes

Like, so there's like a snare drum sitting next to him.

00:56:54.97

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

00:56:57.86

Steve Barnes

So I think they established that really poorly. They didn't like, you have to really go back and look for it, but there is proof that he is a drummer, like, cause he's in the band and he carries a snare drum around with them.

00:57:01.59

Lindsey Dunn

who

00:57:07.96

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

00:57:11.29

Steve Barnes

But yeah, he ripped. He's, I mean, regular Benny Cooper. What do they call those? Yeah.

00:57:19.55

Lindsey Dunn

I think we need to, you know, just however, as a musician, I will say that marching band drumming is not necessarily going to get you where you need to go with jazz drumming.

00:57:32.22

Lindsey Dunn

So maybe hopefully they'll show us that Rich has been taking lessons for a while for this.

00:57:38.90

Steve Barnes

yeah

00:57:39.82

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, don't try this at home, kids. Just because you play drums in marching band doesn't mean you have the skills to play at a jazz club.

00:57:49.56

Steve Barnes

the realism is not there. He could not have kept up with the jazz band is those Phil. He's probably never sat behind a drum kit. It isn't because drum kits didn't really exist back then.

00:58:00.56

Steve Barnes

That's why they had a marching band and everybody had a piece of the drums. So like, as it it's very far fetched that he could, that he could play with that skill level, but this is a fiction show and this is a kid that we're trying to love.

00:58:13.66

Lindsey Dunn

Yes.

00:58:14.94

Steve Barnes

And this really spoke to me.

00:58:15.29

Lindsey Dunn

It was delightful.

00:58:17.10

Steve Barnes

really,

00:58:17.27

Lindsey Dunn

It was delightful.

00:58:19.00

Steve Barnes

He couldn't even reach the like the rack Tom. Like when he first does that first fill, he like can barely like reach it.

00:58:22.65

Lindsey Dunn

00:58:25.56

Steve Barnes

So it's. ah

00:58:28.76

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah, what what else? Oh, well, Steve, you you know, I hope hope this time you picked up on the fact that they were both eating Jell-O in the lunchroom. They both got a green Jell-O dish.

00:58:39.03

Steve Barnes

Yes.

00:58:39.83

Lindsey Dunn

So the school is once again really topping their budget with all of those Jell-O expenses.

00:58:46.95

Steve Barnes

39 cents a pack.

00:58:47.70

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

00:58:47.80

Steve Barnes

That's what I hear.

00:58:49.37

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, but of course, the besides that was the great scene, of course, in the club with the drumming And the Air Force Coke and all that.

00:58:59.93

Lindsey Dunn

But we also have to talk about that great moment in the cafeteria where she really lets the patty cakes have it. Yeah.

00:59:08.06

Steve Barnes

I stood up and saluted her like Queen Marge. Like that was a great moment where like she has to make a, a ah she has to show herself. She has to show her alliance to the freaks in the freakiest way possible.

00:59:22.63

Steve Barnes

So yeah, that was wonderful. And she makes one of the patty cakes like choke on her gum. And so the other one has to give her a Heimlich maneuver to like free her air pipe up.

00:59:30.81

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:59:34.58

Steve Barnes

that was a great moment. It was a defining moment for Marge. And I'm telling you, like I've kept saying like how Marge is like Gaga for rich, but that was the moment that we see rich fall in love with Marge because they cut to rich and his reaction after that happens.

00:59:38.58

Lindsey Dunn

know

00:59:51.78

Steve Barnes

And he's super impressed. So I, I'm, I'm seeing a lot of goodness with these guys and rich is all about encouraging togetherness.

00:59:55.86

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

01:00:01.37

Steve Barnes

Like he's the first one to like, recognize that the gang is like angry at each other. And he's like, guys, this is exactly what it wants us to do.

01:00:11.72

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:00:12.34

Steve Barnes

So he's like, he's like the peacekeeper guy of the group.

01:00:12.40

Lindsey Dunn

Yep.

01:00:15.86

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:00:15.96

Steve Barnes

And they bond on the reason that he's peeing in a bottle is because both him and Marge have been hearing voices in the pipes.

01:00:23.53

Lindsey Dunn

Voices. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was great. And I think that... yeah I mean, I think Rich was already thought she was pretty cute.

01:00:37.56

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:00:38.07

Lindsey Dunn

But... You know, when she decided to be like, I am a freak. And it's almost such, in a way, it's a boy thing to do. Like, boys love doing gross things, showing gross, you know, here's my here's my wound.

01:00:52.50

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:00:54.02

Lindsey Dunn

And, oh, that's gross. And, you know, well, I got this one. And, you know, here's here's a scar i got And so, um yeah, I just thought there was a great moment for Marge. And we there was so much suspense to it, though, because we were all wondering, what is she going to say?

01:01:11.31

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:01:11.35

Lindsey Dunn

Is she going to leave Rich by himself? I didn't think she was, but I was not expecting her to go the route she did.

01:01:20.02

Steve Barnes

I was not confident. i was i was kind of afraid that she would go back to the patty cakes or something. Like, I'll be i'll be back in a second, Rich. I was... I was prepared for that, but I was not prepared for the eye reveal.

01:01:33.62

Steve Barnes

That was just, that was wonderful, wonderful stuff on the machetes part. So I have every faith in the in the machetes from this point on.

01:01:38.65

Lindsey Dunn

yeah

01:01:41.70

Steve Barnes

Oh,

01:01:42.20

Lindsey Dunn

yeah and that what was there was also in the club um i think it's rich and mars are like what are they doing you know like the dancing yeah he's like what are they doing And, or Marge says, maybe we should wait outside.

01:01:53.62

Steve Barnes

ah the dirty dancing part. Yeah.

01:01:59.06

Lindsey Dunn

And Rich is like, no, let's just stay here.

01:02:02.94

Steve Barnes

01:02:06.01

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah. He was hopping up on the pool table. He was, and that's something that you never do. Anybody listening, you don't sit on the edge of a pool table because those things are balanced to be level and like sitting on one side of the other can really skew that. So

01:02:20.31

Lindsey Dunn

Also the top that can get torn.

01:02:21.24

Steve Barnes

01:02:22.79

Lindsey Dunn

You don't want to tear your pool table cover. That's a no, no.

01:02:26.81

Steve Barnes

yeah, we like you rich, but behave yourself.

01:02:27.08

Lindsey Dunn

So yeah.

01:02:30.87

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, this is the kind of life advice you're going to get on our podcast. So keep listening, everyone.

01:02:35.32

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:02:38.42

Steve Barnes

Oh, the cut to song after the whole, the eye patch thing. And they cut to the song, um, pretty little angel eyes like immediately.

01:02:47.51

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

01:02:48.76

Steve Barnes

i think, I think that was a wonderful song choice to follow the eye reveal right there.

01:02:54.14

Lindsey Dunn

and Okay. Put it on your Spotify list, everybody.

01:02:57.18

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:02:59.78

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, so should we move Fawn now so our last group?

01:03:03.33

Steve Barnes

Yeah, I only have one last thing to say about um Rich, which I think is... because like He keeps talking about the paper airplane. He was talking to it last episode about the paper airplane.

01:03:14.68

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, yes. Mm-hmm.

01:03:15.93

Steve Barnes

And he's doing the paper airplane with Marge again. He's trying to get it to go down Main Street.

01:03:22.55

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:03:23.13

Steve Barnes

But something keeps it from going there. There's like some sort of current... That stops it and it makes it always kind of shoot right instead of going down Main Street.

01:03:34.10

Steve Barnes

And he notices that there's this current here and it's significant that it happens right there at the edge of where a sewer pipe is. And I wonder if maybe there is like one of the pillars is right there. And that's the reason that he can't get a plane to go down to Main Street.

01:03:51.61

Lindsey Dunn

I think Pennywise is just keeping a paper airplane collection. ever After Rich turned him on to it, he's very interested in it himself.

01:04:00.86

Steve Barnes

He's got like 10 of them down there. Keep them coming, Rich.

01:04:04.15

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he's that's what that tower is actually made of. It's not bodies, it's paper airplanes that he's collected.

01:04:09.62

Steve Barnes

ah Yes. ah

01:04:11.99

Lindsey Dunn

but yeah, it would be it would be cool if at the end you you know they show these paper airplanes or something. They're being collected or

01:04:21.43

Steve Barnes

I mean, you're right. One of them went straight into the sewer. So I'm, I'm kind of with you.

01:04:26.84

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. I mean, also, it's interesting to think about how a lot of times in it, these little things ended up being big things.

01:04:37.10

Lindsey Dunn

So I could, I do think they keep bringing up the paper airplane. So yes, it's gotta be something bigger than, oh, isn't that cute?

01:04:42.11

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:04:46.70

Lindsey Dunn

He throws paper airplanes.

01:04:48.57

Steve Barnes

Exactly.

01:04:49.24

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:04:49.69

Steve Barnes

Yep.

01:04:50.90

Lindsey Dunn

I'm tracking with you.

01:04:52.28

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:04:53.29

Lindsey Dunn

Alright, we are going to move forward to our last little trio here. Lily, Ingrid slash Periwinkle, and Bob Gray slash Pennywise.

01:05:01.34

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:05:06.45

Steve Barnes

What nice little effed up family we got going on here, huh? Yeah.

01:05:11.32

Lindsey Dunn

so the the big the big cat is out of the bag. Our is out of the bag.

01:05:18.26

Steve Barnes

What Ingrid, is that who you're talking about here?

01:05:19.67

Lindsey Dunn

yeah I mean, yeah, she's, we've been talking about Ingrid. We've been wondering what her deal is, what exactly is going on with her. And we get, ah we get a, we get a flashback at the very beginning and then we get an explanation of the flashback towards the end of the episode.

01:05:37.46

Steve Barnes

I mean, we get explanations with visual flashbacks. So like in case you missed anything, like it it spells it out for you in this episode.

01:05:40.97

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:05:45.58

Steve Barnes

Like she actually is this periwinkle individual and she actually is trying to get the attention of Pennywise. um it's It's wild the way this all plays out.

01:05:57.30

Steve Barnes

And um yeah, she is indeed... In her 60s, they established that in this episode because they say in 1930 is when she was celebrating her 30th birthday. So we know that Ingrid was born in 1900. Therefore, this is a 62 year old woman. This is what 62 looks like, Lindsey . Not bad.

01:06:23.34

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, I was wondering if it helps, you know, what she's been doing helps her look young.

01:06:30.97

Steve Barnes

I was wondering if maybe her, if she's wearing a wig right now and if she's like wearing makeup and appearing young.

01:06:41.21

Lindsey Dunn

All right. Well, I'm going to start with Lily, and then we can we can go, i think. I want to touch on Lily because...

01:06:47.19

Steve Barnes

Start small. Okay.

01:06:50.23

Lindsey Dunn

So what what i how I feel about Lily is that she seems to have gone full golem with this shard.

01:06:56.28

Steve Barnes

Yes. Yes. Good choice of words.

01:07:00.73

Lindsey Dunn

um but don't Nobody else can touch it. Nobody else can hold it. Just me.

01:07:05.20

Steve Barnes

Right. Can't even, can't even touch it. Well, geez.

01:07:09.05

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, he wanted to see it, and she was like, I'll hold it. And yeah, that was that was freaky.

01:07:13.43

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Well, like I said, I think, I mean, Pennywise and it are affecting the town. And I think her having her hands on this thing, I mean, just like with Gollum in the ring, the more he held the ring, the crazier he got.

01:07:27.32

Steve Barnes

Maybe the more she holds onto this shard, the crazier she'll get.

01:07:33.34

Lindsey Dunn

And I'm waiting to see how this kind of matches with our previous lore, I guess, because I'm having a problem a little bit with that aspect to it, that there that this seems to be having this negative impact on her.

01:07:42.84

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:07:48.84

Lindsey Dunn

Maybe it's not the Shard. Maybe it's just being around, you know, being in that place, being in that space. But, you know, I've been watching the clips of in it part two when they, when Mike shows bill Denbro, the piece that he has, they marvel at it and look at it and it does freaky things to you, but it doesn't make you feel like nobody else can touch this.

01:08:11.86

Steve Barnes

right

01:08:21.40

Lindsey Dunn

So you're hoarding it. Like you're holding the one ring or something. So I'm trying to understand exactly how this is impacting her. um And there was there was something else to it that I can't remember.

01:08:34.46

Steve Barnes

Hmm.

01:08:38.02

Lindsey Dunn

Anyway, she's now carrying it around with her at school and thinking it's show and tell.

01:08:41.94

Steve Barnes

That's cool.

01:08:45.30

Lindsey Dunn

I don't know. um um so yeah, she

01:08:47.20

Steve Barnes

Yeah. Waving at the teacher and stuff like her walking out of class with that thing was, uh, it was very 1962. The kind of thing you don't do anymore. Yeah.

01:09:00.63

Lindsey Dunn

is sort of separated herself from her group of friends because of this item. There's that. And also her, you know, her argument with Ronnie has caused her to kind of go off on her own and her default mode of escape has become, I'm going to go talk to Mrs.

01:09:13.34

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:09:19.60

Lindsey Dunn

Kirsch. And so she runs to her side, which is when we have the big interaction with them at the end.

01:09:20.71

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:09:27.93

Lindsey Dunn

But yeah.

01:09:28.04

Steve Barnes

Oh, before she does, she has that image of, um, she gets a ah Pennywise image in her classroom that makes her run out of like her dad, pickle dad and the desk.

01:09:38.46

Lindsey Dunn

Pickle dad in the desk, yeah.

01:09:40.38

Steve Barnes

And what he says is also like another Easter egg. You could say to like a phrase that was said it was written in blood on the walls and it part two, I believe, or it part one. I mean, when he says um you'll die if you try as exactly what was written on blood in one of the walls for, I think that was for bill, I suppose.

01:10:01.78

Steve Barnes

And you know, it's a scary stuff to have that happen to you in your classroom. And the notice that, that shard started glowing as well when that happened. So like, I guess it's image was really there because otherwise it wouldn't be glowing.

01:10:20.54

Steve Barnes

And actually that kind of, it's kind of weird that, that, that it could get as close to her as it did in the classroom and send her that image while she was holding the shard. Shard.

01:10:31.89

Steve Barnes

Um, like you're saying it it is almost kind of like, um you know, not plot hole, but kind of plot mystery territory. Like, is it the shard that's making her act weird or is it the town?

01:10:45.50

Steve Barnes

Why would the shard be making her act weird? Why would the shard glow? and how can Pennywise get to her while she's holding it? So these are all kind of like unknowns, I think, that hopefully will get cleared up.

01:10:57.53

Lindsey Dunn

Well, also, who else have we seen interact with the Shard? it's um It's the Shokopiwa people.

01:11:06.26

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:11:07.06

Lindsey Dunn

And we saw that nice long story about the origin story of these Shards. We didn't see them acting crazy about the pieces. You know, they there was one piece that they were using and the daughter took it, but it wasn't like,

01:11:17.59

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:11:24.95

Lindsey Dunn

ah don't take my shard away from me. so that was, it was, um I'm thinking, yeah, I'm just not sure.

01:11:28.50

Steve Barnes

That's a good point.

01:11:35.39

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, it was, it was, it made a, gave a creepy moment to Lily to be treating her friends this poorly and kind of feel like nobody else can touch this with me.

01:11:47.29

Lindsey Dunn

um But yeah, I just, I wasn't sure exactly what was causing her to act that way.

01:11:51.83

Steve Barnes

Maybe it's because she's been in close proximity with Pennywise multiple times now. Like maybe the she's been around him more than anybody else. So maybe it maybe it is affecting her mental health more so than anybody else as well.

01:12:07.32

Steve Barnes

um But yeah, like you were alluding to before, she has this crazy image in school and she runs out and she goes to her her comfort her comfort pal,

01:12:18.62

Steve Barnes

ingrid And when she first goes and knocks on the door and first enters the house, I was convinced that the house was like empty and that it was like, just like an empty vacant house. And that everything that happened in there was like imaginary.

01:12:34.87

Steve Barnes

i mean of course that wasn't true, but that was my first instinct when she walked in the house the first time.

01:12:41.55

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:12:44.63

Lindsey Dunn

ah So yeah, now we we get the we talk about the reveal that how Ingrid's dad has impacted her, her life, and vice versa.

01:12:58.49

Lindsey Dunn

So i think there's some confusion, a lot of confusion about how this, what ah what we're seeing. um So maybe we can help clarify that.

01:13:11.19

Lindsey Dunn

and And you're the one actually that helped me to see some of this is that it's it apparently, so what happened is in 1908, after the Ironworks Easter egg hunt, Ingrid loses her dad.

01:13:26.10

Lindsey Dunn

Now we don't, they haven't told us how that happens yet.

01:13:28.06

Steve Barnes

Right.

01:13:30.55

Lindsey Dunn

He dies, he's arrested, he's blamed for the attacks.

01:13:30.60

Steve Barnes

Correct.

01:13:34.42

Lindsey Dunn

something happens and she loses her father.

01:13:37.85

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:13:37.88

Lindsey Dunn

So in real life, and this is, you can tell me if I'm right or wrong, in real life, Bob Gray is dead.

01:13:46.39

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:13:47.74

Lindsey Dunn

And Pennywise has taken his form as one of his favorite forms.

01:13:53.66

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:13:54.78

Lindsey Dunn

So we're not, so because I heard somebody was saying like, I'm having a hard time absorbing that Pennywise has a daughter and I'm like well that's because I don't think he actually has a daughter he's just taken on the form of this guy who had a daughter

01:14:06.58

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he does not have a daughter.

01:14:12.73

Steve Barnes

Yeah, he's taken advantage of this poor woman who like lost her dad and back in 1908. She says that when when the circus left and her dad departed, however he departed, we don't know how he departed, but he is departed, that she felt compelled to stay in Derry.

01:14:33.11

Steve Barnes

And so then she started working at Juniper Hill, apparently. And that's when she... quote unquote hooked up with her finally after 27 back in 1935. Eight years Yes. Mm-hmm.

01:14:46.55

Lindsey Dunn

Right, and he, um when this happened, this 1908 thing, she was a child herself. So she's probably, yeah, she's she's in that tween, um you know, pre-early tween kind of years.

01:14:53.11

Steve Barnes

yeah eight eight years old yes

01:14:59.89

Steve Barnes

even

01:15:00.50

Lindsey Dunn

And so she was, she probably saw, you know, she saw it herself in a form or maybe the form of her father. So in 1935, time goes on.

01:15:14.76

Lindsey Dunn

Ingrid realizes that the kids at Juniper Hill are seeing Pennywise again. and she takes one downstairs, this poor kid Mabel, to see if the clown will appear to Mabel again.

01:15:24.25

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:15:28.50

Lindsey Dunn

And she realizes that she can follow these kids or accompany these kids and be able to see, ah quote unquote, her dad again.

01:15:39.80

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:15:39.86

Lindsey Dunn

and So that was in 1935. And now apparently she's been waiting for the next cycle to ban so she can see him again.

01:15:46.81

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:15:48.55

Lindsey Dunn

So she's not exactly herself like a kid killer, but she's not afraid to use these kids for the sake of getting to be close to the the spirit of what she deems her father.

01:15:55.64

Steve Barnes

No.

01:15:59.81

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:16:06.49

Steve Barnes

Yeah. She's kind of like benevolent in some ways. Like she tells Lily, I would never hurt you. Cause you know, she wants to protect Lily. I think she sees a little bit of herself in Lily. She identifies with Lily.

01:16:20.82

Steve Barnes

So she doesn't want to hurt Lily. Yeah. But she doesn't care if she hurts Lily's friends because, you know, if as long as Lily's okay and as long as she's okay, she being Ingrid and as long as she can see Pennywise, she doesn't care who gets hurt or what happens or who she has sex with. I don't think she's having sex with Hank like to have fun. I mean, this is whole, this is, uh, this was set up all along to make him the fall guy.

01:16:51.45

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Talk to me about that. how Why do you think she got involved with Hank?

01:17:00.06

Steve Barnes

I think that she's influenced by it just like everybody else is in her own way. and first off, You know, it always likes to have a fall guy and it always likes the, what is it called?

01:17:14.74

Steve Barnes

The augury to happen. The big, the big end all cycle, the big bloodbath at the end. It wants a big thing to happen.

01:17:20.91

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:17:22.70

Steve Barnes

So it's been orchestrating this black spot incident or something like it for a while now. And in doing so, it's going to need a fall guy. It's going to need a reason for people to show up there.

01:17:36.44

Steve Barnes

So it orchestrates this reason. She's going to be sleeping with Hank, which of course would get the town incensed. And in doing so, he doesn't have an alibi for when the kids get killed at the movie theater.

01:17:51.42

Steve Barnes

So then he gets blamed for this whole, you know, the kid killing thing. The town can go and get their vengeance. And while they're doing that, they can get their bloodlust going.

01:18:02.20

Steve Barnes

And she is using Hank pretty much in the same way that she's using Lily. Maybe she feels like she's doing right for Hank in this situation.

01:18:16.68

Steve Barnes

Like I'm going to save your daughter. So I'm going to do this to you somehow. i don't I don't know, but I'm certain that she is the one who called and said that Hank was

01:18:28.87

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, the tip. Yeah.

01:18:30.62

Steve Barnes

Both tips, the tip back in episode two and the tip this episode as to where Hank is at the black spot. I'm quite certain that it was her both times.

01:18:39.74

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, you think she called in the tip about the cigarettes?

01:18:42.74

Steve Barnes

Yes, I do.

01:18:44.92

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, Ingrid. This is this is cruel.

01:18:50.74

Steve Barnes

That's a step too far, Ingrid.

01:18:53.14

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, I was... i was I had forgotten about that tip. I was just thinking this, this is all this tip about the fact that he's at the black spot. I mean, obviously that was her. But yeah, that, that seems like you're, you're pitching on both sides of the fence, Ingrid.

01:19:12.44

Steve Barnes

A little bit, a little bit.

01:19:15.32

Lindsey Dunn

um but Yeah.

01:19:15.58

Steve Barnes

but yeah this

01:19:16.20

Lindsey Dunn

this Go ahead.

01:19:17.62

Steve Barnes

No, you go ahead, please.

01:19:19.58

Lindsey Dunn

i I, was just thinking, you know, even though it's like Even though she's not fully evil, almost what she's doing is more evil.

01:19:34.46

Lindsey Dunn

Because she's using these little kids. And I thought it was so upsetting how you know we only saw a little bit of the scene at the beginning.

01:19:46.58

Lindsey Dunn

But then when we see the longer scene at the at the end where she's narrating to Lily...

01:19:49.26

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:19:52.15

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:19:52.15

Lindsey Dunn

And she brings this little kid down here and says, don't worry, sweetie, it's just a balloon. And stops her from going upstairs so that she can, this little terrified kid can be there.

01:20:07.83

Lindsey Dunn

And she was almost observing this thing like an experiment of some kind.

01:20:13.96

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:20:14.26

Lindsey Dunn

um But, yeah. And then she she says, don't hurt her, don't hurt her But then... She's also cleaning up her dad's mess and is has obviously continued to to use these kids.

01:20:25.29

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:20:31.58

Lindsey Dunn

ah Yeah. I was like, oh, this is almost worse than what Pennywise is doing because these guys these kids are trusting you.

01:20:42.62

Steve Barnes

Sure. She has to literally walk through blood in order to get to that vision of her father that she wants to see. So I think that image right there pretty much says it all.

01:20:53.56

Steve Barnes

Like she has to walk past blood and ignore it and then look at the vision of her father that she wants.

01:20:53.78

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:21:00.63

Steve Barnes

Um, so she'll do anything to like secure her own happiness. And yeah, she, I think it's a true definition of insanity because she doesn't realize that she's being evil and she sees everything she's doing as good. She probably thinks she's helping Mabel somehow.

01:21:19.38

Steve Barnes

Um, even though we know that she's just using poor little Mabel.

01:21:23.57

Lindsey Dunn

Right.

01:21:23.67

Steve Barnes

um she probably thinks she's helping Lily, but she's been really, she's been guiding Lily and the gang this whole time.

01:21:23.77

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:21:32.60

Steve Barnes

like guiding them along, following them around, hoping that they get killed so she can see Pennywise. mean, it's absolutely diabolical. And yeah, she's been doing it a long time. You see like these, this line of little girls walking past her in 1935. And I'm like, Oh no, how many of these little kids had to die after Mabel?

01:21:55.72

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And...

01:22:03.06

Lindsey Dunn

oh gosh. I had a thought, now it's gone.

01:22:07.14

Steve Barnes

That happens to me usually, not you. ah

01:22:13.21

Steve Barnes

While you're thinking about it, I'll go, I'll go back to this, um, this baby book that she has for herself.

01:22:13.97

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:22:18.53

Steve Barnes

Um, I think it's interesting. It gives us a good history of Derry and of her. Um, cause it shows us like the Derry canal days, which, you know, they're still celebrating those in the eighties. Cause we saw Adrian Mellon.

01:22:32.28

Steve Barnes

He got killed at the Derry canal days. Um, you can wave at me anytime you might remember your point there, Lindsey . Okay.

01:22:39.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I got it. So she seemed surprised, though, to to hear that Lily saw the clown. she So she knew that...

01:22:53.91

Lindsey Dunn

I was trying to figure out what she knew and what she didn't know because she was like, you've seen him. you know like She was surprised that, um yeah, the Lily was involved to this extent.

01:23:05.65

Steve Barnes

Cause she hasn't yet. Yeah. Cause she hasn't seen him yet.

01:23:08.00

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:23:09.67

Steve Barnes

She's been hoping to, and she knows he's around, but yeah, she's finally excited that Lily has actually seen him with her own eyes.

01:23:09.62

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:23:18.47

Lindsey Dunn

Oh.

01:23:18.96

Steve Barnes

Cause she has not seen him with her own eyes yet.

01:23:22.65

Lindsey Dunn

And, wasn't it exciting, did you find it exciting, Steve, to realize that the clown with the sombrero was Meriwinkle?

01:23:29.18

Steve Barnes

Oh yes. That was, that was,

01:23:32.15

Lindsey Dunn

Which is why we didn't quite recognize that that silhouette.

01:23:36.54

Steve Barnes

Yeah. And that also explains why we could see it because she's a real person like Pennywise and all those kid dead kid images were not real. Pennywise created those, but that image of her was real because she's an actual person.

01:23:47.13

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, right.

01:23:52.66

Steve Barnes

So I like that aspect of it and explain why we saw that image.

01:24:00.09

Lindsey Dunn

So at the end, we see that you know Lily leaves, of course, and she's upset. But then Ingrid puts on her costume.

01:24:12.38

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah, she's suiting up.

01:24:13.93

Lindsey Dunn

She's cosplaying. but So what what, I don't know, what do eat what do you think is going to happen with that?

01:24:16.54

Steve Barnes

01:24:22.97

Lindsey Dunn

i mean, we can I guess we can save speculations.

01:24:23.19

Steve Barnes

I think...

01:24:25.37

Lindsey Dunn

We're almost at the end, but, you know.

01:24:27.13

Steve Barnes

Oh, well, mean, you just asked me, so I gotta tell you.

01:24:27.19

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

01:24:30.17

Steve Barnes

She's going to the black spot because she she has already given... Like, all clues are leading to, like, everybody in town is gonna go... get Hank at the black spot because she caught in the tip.

01:24:43.29

Steve Barnes

but My speculation, she caught in the tip. So she knows this is going down tonight. So I think she's suiting up as pair as what was it? Perry Winkle. So that when she sees Pennywise, she's like, I'm finally going to see daddy tonight and I'm going to show him my costume.

01:24:52.71

Lindsey Dunn

Periwinkle, yeah.

01:24:59.77

Steve Barnes

i mean, this, this Bob gray dude must be pretty awesome. Must be a great dad because she's going through an awful lot to see him again.

01:25:07.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. um I want to say that i haven't, I meant to say this every week, but periwinkle is a really pretty color.

01:25:18.10

Lindsey Dunn

So you should everybody should look up that color swatch.

01:25:19.45

Steve Barnes

Okay. ah

01:25:21.90

Lindsey Dunn

It's like bluish, purplish color. It's a very nice shade.

01:25:26.87

Steve Barnes

I know it because there's a character named Perry Winkle and I can't remember what cartoon it is. um But yeah, I know the name and the color and all that stuff from this one particular character from a kid's cartoon. So yeah, look that one up as well while you're looking up the color Perry Winkle. I never looked things up on the podcast by the way.

01:25:45.95

Steve Barnes

And i'm like 160 episodes in and I have never once like stopped to look up a fact on Google or anywhere else because I just am am terrified of like losing focus.

01:25:56.59

Steve Barnes

01:25:56.98

Lindsey Dunn

right well we don't need to because usually james tells us what we missed like he did that that one episode he told us what the price of of jello was and what the price of the meat the eggs was i don't know so james let us know what you find out about periwinkle

01:25:57.69

Steve Barnes

01:26:02.82

Steve Barnes

that's right.

01:26:15.64

Steve Barnes

He told me a couple of weeks ago, he was like, I'm going to record like a one or two minute you know little segment of what I think about the episode and include in y'all's podcast. I'm like, okay, yeah, please do it. I'd love for you to do that. He has yet to do that. So here's your opportunity to James. If not, edit this all out.

01:26:35.80

Steve Barnes

01:26:36.60

Lindsey Dunn

Well, hopefully he might, you know, maybe he'll be here next week. Who knows?

01:26:42.05

Steve Barnes

He's invited for sure.

01:26:42.87

Lindsey Dunn

Yes. Okay, so we also have this white mob that forms at the very end, this white mob that forms under the guidance of Clint Bowers.

01:26:49.74

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:26:54.89

Steve Barnes

That's right.

01:26:55.26

Lindsey Dunn

And of course, they all show up and descend. i mean, I knew i knew that The season's going to end or the augury is going to be the black spot.

01:27:05.62

Lindsey Dunn

But I wasn't expecting the black spot. We have this fun event. And then at the end of that, we're going right into it. I was like, okay, it's here.

01:27:13.02

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:27:13.33

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. So there, there's not going to be um night one at the black spot, night two at the black spot. You know, by the end of the week, the fire happens. It's going to happen pretty soon.

01:27:24.76

Lindsey Dunn

So this white mob forms and not only is it a white mob, but they are wearing masks.

01:27:31.26

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah.

01:27:31.90

Lindsey Dunn

What did you think about their appearance?

01:27:35.29

Steve Barnes

The, my first walk, my first watch through, I didn't really catch the masks that they were wearing. Honestly, I just saw that they were wearing masks and I was like, what a bunch of creeps. um The second watch through, and of course like the online chatter, when you learn that they're like universal monsters, that's, that's fun stuff. Like Clint Bowers is his Dracula.

01:27:58.01

Steve Barnes

And I think that Stan Kirsch that's next to him because Stan Kirsch was the guy that was doing the dialogue in the bar, by the way, Ingrid's husband. So it's really funny that he's in this mob as well, but he's there.

01:28:13.91

Steve Barnes

Um, I think he was, his mask was, somebody said it was the creature from the black lagoon, but it looked like Frankenstein to me. What did you think?

01:28:22.86

Lindsey Dunn

I didn't notice that the masks were universal monsters until I saw it in a post today. Maybe we saw the same post, but I thought on the one hand I was thinking, well, that's different.

01:28:29.50

Steve Barnes

Okay. Yeah.

01:28:37.67

Lindsey Dunn

And then I also thought it's kind of diabolical because Hank life loves movies and they're going to use that against him by using masks from these universal monsters.

01:28:50.42

Lindsey Dunn

But then if this was a horror comedy, i could see Hank, like them showing up and him going, so what's your favorite movie? Or like him, you know, kind of like in Scream, they would use that to be like, have a have a back and forth.

01:29:07.74

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:29:08.41

Lindsey Dunn

Little clever quips um about the about the characters that they've chosen and why But yeah, i just I just think it's creepy when people show up in masks at all.

01:29:18.52

Steve Barnes

Absolutely. i think it's, oh, go ahead.

01:29:20.54

Lindsey Dunn

And i'll yes I was going to say, the I think the way that that all happened was really neat, how the all the cars kind of pull up, and they've got their headlights on, it's blinding these two that are outside, just having a little shoot the breeze moment.

01:29:33.26

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:29:41.85

Lindsey Dunn

And they come out, and they're wearing these masks. So I just thought the buildup to that was

01:29:45.42

Steve Barnes

wielding guns. oh Don't forget the guns. that's That's the scariest part.

01:29:49.78

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I miss i missed the guns. But yeah.

01:29:52.98

Steve Barnes

so I heard somebody say in a post as well, the same post that we both saw, that the masks could represent the forms that it has taken in the past.

01:30:05.53

Steve Barnes

And now it is there represented as the town folk because it did come as a Dracula, as a creature from the Black Lagoon, and of course, as a clown. And that's what those three front facing monster masks were supposed to be.

01:30:21.75

Steve Barnes

So it seems like that could be like a one for one for the it monsters. It's like, I've been these monsters before and now they're here again as humans that are actually going to do some damage.

01:30:33.72

Lindsey Dunn

When have we seen vampires?

01:30:37.11

Steve Barnes

Um, in the movie, it, one of the, one of the kids had a vampire experience, a Dracula.

01:30:44.60

Lindsey Dunn

so Okay. So in the, you're talking about in the, not in the past though, in the, yeah.

01:30:51.02

Steve Barnes

In the Stephen King universe. Yes.

01:30:52.95

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

01:30:54.65

Steve Barnes

And let's see, um, the mob forms because Hank got fired from being a police officer. So that's gotta be mentioned here.

01:31:04.83

Lindsey Dunn

Clint,

01:31:05.99

Steve Barnes

I'm sorry, Clint. Did I say Hank? I keep getting their name.

01:31:08.12

Lindsey Dunn

you did, but that's okay.

01:31:09.35

Steve Barnes

There's very similar names. Anyway, Clint Bowers fired from being a police officer. I'm thinking he might've gotten fired for um maybe the, the bus escape for Hank being escaped, maybe for like um general incompetence because like whenever like a, an easy out comes up to close a case, he will jump on it.

01:31:35.35

Steve Barnes

So I wonder if that's kind of caught up with them because we don't see any other hints that he's getting fired. We can only speculate, but I'm thinking it's possible possibly has something to do with Hank.

01:31:45.98

Lindsey Dunn

I mean, i think i think that's what he said, that the councilman was upset that he had not closed the case on this killing, this child killing yet.

01:32:01.01

Lindsey Dunn

Because remember when he was in the Falcon, those two people came up to him and were like, have you arrested you know hours yet?

01:32:04.49

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:32:10.81

Steve Barnes

Okay, gotcha. I do remember that now.

01:32:12.06

Lindsey Dunn

And so they were they were sort of they were sort of like telling him he wasn't doing his job correctly. So, yeah. he I think he said incompetence or lack of confidence. They said but lack of confidence in my ability to to do this job.

01:32:25.37

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:32:27.67

Lindsey Dunn

So, yeah.

01:32:28.18

Steve Barnes

That's exactly it.

01:32:28.23

Lindsey Dunn

It's because, yeah

01:32:29.18

Steve Barnes

Yep. All right. Well, yeah. And if he hadn't gotten fired again, this is the machinations of it at play. If he hadn't gotten fired, he would not have gone and gotten this mob riled up.

01:32:44.25

Steve Barnes

He would have instead gone to arrest Hank.

01:32:47.64

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:32:48.09

Steve Barnes

So again, once again, it is playing into the town.

01:32:51.78

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so at this at our black spot scene, I'm thinking we will finally discover the source of the hatred between the Bowers family and the Hanlon family.

01:33:05.60

Lindsey Dunn

ha.

01:33:06.26

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah, that's right. I didn't even think about that. Like the, the Hatfield and McCoys of Derry. And it's obvious that's Clint Bowers with a Dracula mask on. Like nobody can, can like argue that.

01:33:20.37

Steve Barnes

So we're in the exact same clothes, exact same hairstyle. We just saw him in the scene previous. That's definitely him and Dracula.

01:33:31.82

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, so I think we're ready to rate our episode.

01:33:37.88

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah. Okay. Right away. Well, me first or you first?

01:33:41.62

Lindsey Dunn

you You go first.

01:33:44.02

Steve Barnes

Um, okay. Um, I mean, I loved everything about this episode, even the things that I was a little questionable about, like Richie's drum, like how we can be a drum prodigy so quickly. Um, you know, questionable things about the plot aside, I loved everything about this and I keep loving each episode more and more since episode three. And in fact, I liked episode three with the exception of, um, cemetery gate as it's now known as, um

01:34:17.21

Steve Barnes

So like I can only give this one a full five out of five turtles, Lindsey , because I've been given fours. I've been given fours and wanting to give a four and a half, but I can't because I'm i'm like strict on my, you know, whole numbers only thing I put on myself here. So this can only be a five. I loved it. And i have high hopes. The next episode will be a very mournful five as well, but we shall see.

01:34:46.33

Steve Barnes

How are you looking, Lindsey ?

01:34:47.35

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Ditto, ditto, ditto. I mean, I've had five last two episodes and This was so fun. it had, yeah, it had at least two moments where you felt a need to audibly cheer.

01:35:03.32

Steve Barnes

Yes.

01:35:05.34

Lindsey Dunn

so i can't i can't fault anything about this episode, really.

01:35:10.97

Steve Barnes

Nor I. do you have an MVP of this episode?

01:35:14.94

Lindsey Dunn

do. i can say who that is, if you'd like.

01:35:20.06

Steve Barnes

Yeah. we I mean, am I jumping the gun?

01:35:20.44

Lindsey Dunn

Okay. We're ready for it. No, we're ready for MVPs.

01:35:24.44

Steve Barnes

Yeah. i feel like I don't know what else we what else wonderful things we can say because we love this. So who's yours?

01:35:29.08

Lindsey Dunn

Yes. Okay. Well, my MVP for this week is going to be Marge.

01:35:36.05

Steve Barnes

Oh, I wonder why. ah

01:35:39.42

Lindsey Dunn

Marge. Yeah. she I wasn't liking her at the beginning. I did not like how she was flip-flopping on her friend and Was going to join the Mean Girls.

01:35:49.53

Lindsey Dunn

And she was doing the patty cakes thing.

01:35:50.36

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:35:52.45

Lindsey Dunn

That was annoying. But yeah. I like how she has come into her own. She's ready to be herself. And not pretend anymore. And.

01:36:06.42

Lindsey Dunn

ah like how she didn't make Rich feel like a freak.

01:36:11.00

Steve Barnes

yeah

01:36:11.58

Lindsey Dunn

And she liked his gift. And even though she wasn't ready to say we were going on a date. I think she might che be changing her mind when she saw him on those drums.

01:36:21.43

Steve Barnes

I saw a look on her face. Yeah, I think you're right.

01:36:25.78

Lindsey Dunn

What about you, Steve?

01:36:27.77

Steve Barnes

ah So my MVP, I think my MVP she, had she had a quote this week where she said, i love these air force Cokes and that's Marge man. I'm, I'm a Marge guy myself too. So she definitely deserves it this week, despite what anybody else did, what any adult, what any politician, what anybody did, nothing as cool as showing that eye to like her nemesis and scaring them off.

01:36:54.94

Steve Barnes

I mean, I love that scene. i loved everything about her. i loved her little ragtime dance she was doing while ah Rich was on the drums. um I wanted to give my MVP to Rich for the great job on the drums, but Marge it definitely has won me over um for this whole series. It seems like I'm i'm all team Marge all the way. so she is 100% this episode.

01:37:19.88

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Well, I will say my honorable mention then, since we had the same MVP, my honorable mention is Ingrid because I knew that she was, she was going to be a compelling character, but what we got was so much more rich than I expected with how devious her character is, how sick, how twisted

01:37:27.45

Steve Barnes

Oh,

01:37:33.24

Steve Barnes

she is.

01:37:42.84

Lindsey Dunn

And so Madeline Stowe, you finally you finally earned your paycheck.

01:37:46.36

Steve Barnes

oh yeah.

01:37:48.22

Lindsey Dunn

um Although i will I want to shout out, too, that the younger Ingrid was paid was played by Tyner Rushing. So i was I was sitting there going, that doesn't look like Madeline Stowe during the black and white scenes.

01:38:00.05

Steve Barnes

Me too.

01:38:02.87

Steve Barnes

Right. I thought maybe they were just CG and I per face to make her look younger or something. But then like I saw your notes and I was like, well, wait, it's a different actress. So that's impressive that they got somebody that looks so much like her.

01:38:11.27

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:38:14.05

Steve Barnes

And i don't know if they did any touch ups or not, but man, yeah, she did a great job as a young Ingrid.

01:38:17.14

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:38:20.25

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. And the other honorable mention would be the cinematographer for that beautiful black and white sequence.

01:38:29.14

Steve Barnes

Oh yeah. I kind of think of like, maybe we're seeing like, lot we're seeing that in black and white um because, you know, TV was black and white in 1962 also, but this show is in color. I think we're seeing life through Ingrid's eyes, like her memories, like her black and white memories. And that's why we're seeing the red. So like brightly is because that's what she remembers the most perhaps.

01:38:53.91

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Yeah, she's not goingnna she's not remembering her father or that situation the way it was. She's remembering and how she wants it to be. And it's very Hollywood, very melodramatic.

01:39:06.25

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:39:09.18

Lindsey Dunn

Her life is like a movie. she She must really like movies, too. That's how she ended up with Hank.

01:39:15.03

Steve Barnes

Probably was her way in. That's exactly right.

01:39:17.10

Lindsey Dunn

Okay.

01:39:18.87

Steve Barnes

Do you like singing in the rain? Me too. Did that come 1962? don't know.

01:39:24.92

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, so we can um make predictions if we want or anything else you want to discuss, Steve?

01:39:34.90

Steve Barnes

See, I don't really have any, I mean, the predictions I have, I think seem pretty cut and dry. I think the black spot's going to have a fire there. And i think that, um oh, I do think that Perry Winkle is going to show up and around the fire and maybe giggle or something. I don't know what she's going to do there, but she's going to be looking for for Pennywise And do you have any predictions for the next episode besides the obvious? I can't really think of any other things I'm hanging my hat on.

01:40:06.33

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I don't know if I have a solid prediction, but I am curious what's going to happen with Lily now. Because she's the only one of our characters that isn't at the black spot right now that we know of.

01:40:15.90

Steve Barnes

Oh.

01:40:20.46

Lindsey Dunn

01:40:20.82

Steve Barnes

01:40:21.59

Lindsey Dunn

She was leaving the house screaming. So where's she going to go now? Is she going to Does she know about the black spot? I don't know.

01:40:33.50

Lindsey Dunn

um Because the it was ronnie Ronnie and Will found out because of Charlotte. So somehow Lily's got to be brought into this because, of course, all of our characters are going to be, you know, together at the end.

01:40:51.91

Steve Barnes

Wow. Okay. The last time we saw Lily, she was screaming on her bike with a bloody handprint on her back.

01:40:57.10

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. Yeah.

01:40:59.35

Steve Barnes

Um, not a, not a good look. Um, um everybody at school and everybody around town, you know, believes that she's crazy and they believe that she attacked Marge. The Patty cakes think that she attacked Marge.

01:41:12.02

Lindsey Dunn

01:41:12.95

Steve Barnes

ah The only person that doesn't think that is Marge. So like if the black spot does happen and something bad does happen to all our characters, then it seems like Lily would be a pretty good fall guy for that situation.

01:41:26.36

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:41:26.78

Steve Barnes

um A good like blame game kind of person.

01:41:31.29

Lindsey Dunn

It would be too neat and too nice if Lily was able somehow to meet Rose... And be able to get rid of that weapon.

01:41:46.26

Lindsey Dunn

i You know, I really would like, I really would prefer that shard to go back to its rightful owners.

01:41:49.56

Steve Barnes

Oh.

01:41:53.35

Lindsey Dunn

And not for Lily to be carrying it around anymore.

01:41:54.05

Steve Barnes

Ooh.

01:41:56.79

Lindsey Dunn

But this episode, Rose or Tanyal, neither one of them showed up. So, yeah, we're wondering.

01:42:00.70

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's right.

01:42:03.64

Lindsey Dunn

It might be that next episode, if next episode is the black spot. Then the last episode, which is Winter Fire, that could be the cleanup and the fallout.

01:42:15.58

Lindsey Dunn

And maybe that's when we'll see Rose again because Shaw is going to be upset that his people um got attacked in this way.

01:42:27.99

Lindsey Dunn

i don't know.

01:42:28.73

Steve Barnes

Sure.

01:42:28.83

Lindsey Dunn

Hopefully he will. Hopefully he will. hopeful That he cares about his his airmen.

01:42:30.42

Steve Barnes

me I think he will. i think he'll be upset about that. He seems to care for his guys and doesn't let race get in the way. um But yeah, that's, that's some good prediction happening in there, especially with Lily, her not being around and yeah, Rose and Daniel, I forgot all about them. They weren't, they didn't even say hi this episode.

01:42:52.12

Steve Barnes

So that's ah that's another great prediction is hopefully Lily will make her way over there to that side of town and get this back in Rose's hands. Cause yeah, she know what she's doing with it. She stabbed, she stabbed Ingrid with it. Come on. That's not great.

01:43:07.42

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah. It's just more questions really than predictions. I'm like, where's Lily going? How's she going to be brought into this?

01:43:17.21

Steve Barnes

These are strong, strong predictions, Lindsey . Come on now. We're the predicting podcasts.

01:43:24.00

Lindsey Dunn

Well, a prediction is when you say, I think this is going to happen. And I'm, I, I really have no idea because that's why, that's why we have story, people who make movies. i don't have to,

01:43:36.28

Lindsey Dunn

I get to see what they do with it. I just get to evaluate it and decide if it was well done or not.

01:43:40.54

Steve Barnes

who That's right. ah

01:43:45.40

Lindsey Dunn

Okay, but you did have something else you wanted to bring up here.

01:43:49.30

Steve Barnes

Yeah, we're we're forgetting about, um we're not we're not forgetting about him, but I wanted to bring him back up. Baron Bo Odar. He's going to be joining the crew in season two. And that's the whole reason we really started this all this all up was just because we were Baron Bo Odar fans first.

01:44:06.81

Steve Barnes

So it's interesting for me to think about what kind of changes could happen because at first, um I think I messaged you and I was like, is he going to be taken over?

01:44:19.48

Steve Barnes

for the machetes or is he going to be joining in the machetes? And your response was that he's joining the machetes, correct?

01:44:26.90

Lindsey Dunn

yes yeah i don't i don't see them going anywhere

01:44:28.57

Steve Barnes

What do you think? I don't either. So, um, Do you, do you see him bringing like a different tone to it? Or do you see him bringing like a different edge to it or maybe just directing one or two episodes? What do you think Baron's going to be looking like? And, oh, and is he bringing Yonte with him?

01:44:48.66

Steve Barnes

Those are my questions for you.

01:44:48.98

Lindsey Dunn

yes Yes, she's in the pictures. She's in the pictures that they posted of them visiting the lot. Now, I mean, she could just be there as a supportive spouse, but those those two are partners. They do everything together.

01:45:02.39

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:45:02.39

Lindsey Dunn

and And my prediction is that they are bringing him on bringing the two of them on as continuity writers because they made Dark. They made a show with at least three time periods where there's a cycle and storyboarded all that stuff out.

01:45:25.88

Lindsey Dunn

And of course they had a plan, but somehow they've brought them in We're saying that based on their Instagram posts, if you want to, if you don't know where we're getting this information from, because it's certainly not on IMDB.

01:45:42.04

Lindsey Dunn

I did Google Baron Bo Odar's Welcome to Derry just to see if there were any updates. And the first thing it said was they are producers of Welcome to Derry, but I couldn't find that verified anywhere, whether on HBO Max, on IMDb or any of the websites. So that still has not been officially announced.

01:46:03.90

Lindsey Dunn

01:46:05.00

Steve Barnes

I don't think season two and season three have officially been announced either, even though we know they're going to be happening.

01:46:10.74

Lindsey Dunn

Right. Well, Interestingly enough, today he made a post on Instagram. He's ever since, like, just to give everybody the tea who's not informed, there was ah their last show, Baron and Nyantia, their last show was 1899.

01:46:32.38

Lindsey Dunn

Everybody should, you know, well, maybe not. We can't assume everybody's listening to us forever, but both Steve and i that's how we met is actually through 1899.

01:46:37.75

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:46:41.62

Lindsey Dunn

and That was a three-season show that that was canceled after one season. And also there was a plagiarism accusation that got wielded at this show for copying a graphic novel, which neither one of us agree with that they stole from this graphic novel.

01:46:54.65

Steve Barnes

wrong

01:47:07.10

Lindsey Dunn

But that was enough to cause Yantia... to leave social media. She no longer has a social media account. So that was, that, that kind of was a beat up for Baron has been still posting on Instagram some, but they're very enigmatic posts where he's not saying anything directly.

01:47:28.09

Steve Barnes

Right, yes.

01:47:28.57

Lindsey Dunn

His latest, his latest group of Instagram stories though, he, um, Posted eight years ago, Dark was released. So that was the first story.

01:47:41.11

Lindsey Dunn

And then he posted the second part of that story was that he made. i'm wait I'm like looking at the story right now. So I'm waiting for it to turn over.

01:47:54.42

Lindsey Dunn

01:47:58.07

Lindsey Dunn

it says greets from the desert, Palm Springs. And it's a picture of him. So he doesn't always post pictures of himself on his social media.

01:48:10.14

Lindsey Dunn

So it it feels like he's becoming a little more public again. So that's that's why I am thinking that he's joined. But the I will tell you that the Welcome to Derry that has been confirmed nowhere.

01:48:27.57

Lindsey Dunn

We're just seeing his Instagram for the clues. And he has the red balloon... um He posted that he's been working with the Muschiettes.

01:48:37.85

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:48:38.30

Lindsey Dunn

So it it has to be this show. But I don't know why they're keeping it so um keeping it so hush-hush. As far as your question of how it would change, I don't see it it really would have to change.

01:48:55.58

Lindsey Dunn

And especially if the Muschiettes, they've got their own plan. They might just be be broughting being brought on to kind of help them make sure the writing is continuous. They're not seeing any gaps in it or putting anything in that people might go, wait a second, that doesn't match what you did here.

01:49:16.31

Lindsey Dunn

01:49:17.40

Steve Barnes

Yeah, they did a really good job of portraying like, um, 1895 and, um, you know, the 1980s and the 1950s. So I think maybe that's kind of like a little feather in their cap there.

01:49:30.10

Steve Barnes

Like, I think that these people could really do a period piece well, because we know this is the next one is going to be set in what 1935. So, you know, maybe, maybe that's the whole attraction there is that they can, they can do time period as well.

01:49:40.82

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:49:46.68

Steve Barnes

Um, And maybe that maybe who they have slated for season three, they have, I know they've talked about a different producer for season three as well. They plan to bring on and maybe that individual hasn't the same kind of, um, you know, skills and directing as well and can do like early 1900 periods. Well, cause we're gonna have to do 1908 season. Um,

01:50:09.66

Steve Barnes

um I don't know. ah Do you think that this whole Palm spring thing was a personal post or do you think it was a clue post for us clue hounds?

01:50:24.06

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah, I don't know. They're... they're

01:50:29.46

Lindsey Dunn

i don't know anything about Palm Springs, so I can't say.

01:50:32.10

Steve Barnes

I don't either.

01:50:32.47

Lindsey Dunn

01:50:35.08

Steve Barnes

I'm trying to think what.

01:50:35.06

Lindsey Dunn

i guess i guess my point was that he posted a picture of himself with a camera, and he doesn't always post himself.

01:50:44.79

Steve Barnes

In fact, hardly ever.

01:50:44.82

Lindsey Dunn

and

01:50:45.63

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that's right.

01:50:45.69

Lindsey Dunn

Right, and how he put the post about dark.

01:50:46.53

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:50:49.18

Lindsey Dunn

So he's reminding people that he's created a show.

01:50:50.27

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:50:53.24

Lindsey Dunn

And so I thought, oh, well, maybe he's gearing up for an announcement. So he's he's anxious to tell people the news, but he can't yet. So he's waiting.

01:51:02.26

Steve Barnes

Yeah.

01:51:03.45

Lindsey Dunn

my My prediction would be that once season ends, one ends. When they start season two promotions, they would probably announce it then.

01:51:12.76

Steve Barnes

I would hope so. And yeah, let's throw Yante in there too, please. because

01:51:17.36

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:51:18.58

Steve Barnes

Cause I've been, yeah, ah we've been talking about Baron, Baron, Baron, but yeah, I kind of forgotten about Yante and I wanted to make sure she was in the fold, but I guess the answer is wait and see for season two.

01:51:29.59

Lindsey Dunn

And she's the writer. She's the one of the two of them. She's the writer. He's the director. She's the writer. So yes, I mean, if they're, if they're being brought on as continuity writers, Yantia is going to have a big role in that.

01:51:35.70

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:51:42.30

Steve Barnes

Cool. Right on. Well, I don't think I have much else for an end here. Do you, Lindsey ?

01:51:49.14

Lindsey Dunn

um but Just a couple of plugs I wanted to make.

01:51:53.54

Steve Barnes

Oh, well, of course.

01:51:55.19

Lindsey Dunn

And so my first one is that Stranger Things season five came out and I did a recording yesterday with my buddy Harrison.

01:52:07.32

Lindsey Dunn

When season four came out, we did the same thing. So I did a podcast recap of the first part that should be dropping on the pod this week sometime.

01:52:20.89

Lindsey Dunn

um Also, a very good movie on Netflix has come out that has some award chatter, Train Dreams. It's got Joel Edgerton in it.

01:52:31.93

Lindsey Dunn

And, um yeah, it's it's the story of a guy who lives a life.

01:52:40.30

Steve Barnes

That's me.

01:52:43.93

Steve Barnes

it just it sounds really familiar.

01:52:44.89

Lindsey Dunn

Yeah.

01:52:45.81

Steve Barnes

Now, I haven't heard of that one. Train dreams, you say?

01:52:48.58

Lindsey Dunn

Train Dreams, yeah.

01:52:50.46

Steve Barnes

Okay.

01:52:50.74

Lindsey Dunn

Did you ever see a movie called The Journey of Natty Gann?

01:52:51.29

Steve Barnes

I might.

01:52:53.62

Lindsey Dunn

Did you ever see that movie?

01:52:55.38

Steve Barnes

Did not.

01:52:56.50

Lindsey Dunn

Oh, okay. Well, in that movie, there's a guy that... There's a guy that works on trees. You know, it's that time when there was all the building done, so you needed people to saw down all these trees and fell all these trees.

01:53:06.38

Steve Barnes

Mm-hmm.

01:53:12.86

Steve Barnes

Right?

01:53:12.86

Lindsey Dunn

And Natty Gann is this guy's daughter. They get separated, and she... tries to find him and she travels by train.

01:53:24.47

Lindsey Dunn

i was like, this movie reminds me of Journey of Natty Gann. Totally different tone. It's not an adventure. It's more like a dreamy portrait of America during this time of history when there was all this building happening and people are like, how can I set up this life?

01:53:45.11

Lindsey Dunn

But there's not enough safety nets put in place so bad things can happen and all of a sudden you've lost everything and then how do you rebuild from that?

01:53:55.27

Steve Barnes

Hmm. Okay. Right on. I've recently saw the life of Chuck just a couple nights ago. That's another Stephen King one. You were saying, we said the life of, ah that made me think about the life of Chuck.

01:54:03.90

Lindsey Dunn

01:54:08.32

Steve Barnes

That was a great film written by Stephen King, directed by what's the fella's name? Mike Flanagan.

01:54:14.19

Lindsey Dunn

Flanagan!

01:54:15.51

Steve Barnes

Yeah, that was I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. It's not a horror. um It's just ah a great story about one man's life and his journey through it. And the first act will kind of throw you through a loop and act three will fill you in.

01:54:32.98

Steve Barnes

01:54:33.11

Lindsey Dunn

Mm-hmm.

01:54:34.14

Steve Barnes

But as for plugs, you know, i will second your plug for your talk with Harrison. He's a great guy to listen to on podcasts. And I will tell people that if they want to see the transcript of this, you could check it out at oneofmystories.com.

01:54:47.71

Steve Barnes

Lindsey 's been posting these transcripts and that's a fun post to share always. um And then check out my website, sweetchildoftime.com or write us an email at sweetchildoftimepod at gmail.com.

01:55:01.30

Steve Barnes

um Those are my plugs, Lindsey . I'm piggybacking off your plugs.

01:55:06.71

Lindsey Dunn

Thank you. Good piggyback. i like I like a good piggyback ride.

01:55:11.50

Steve Barnes

Hop on, piggy. ah Oh, wait, we can't say piggy anymore. That's turned into a bad word. ah

01:55:19.67

Lindsey Dunn

oh okay. What would Miss Piggy say about that? All right.

01:55:25.11

Steve Barnes

It's my name, Kirby. ah

01:55:28.79

Lindsey Dunn

Well, I think we're ready to end this podcast session then. So thank you everyone for joining us in this episode of Welcome to Derry.

01:55:39.61

Lindsey Dunn

May all the clowns you meet be kind, not murderous. And may all the friends you've met be kept safe in your hearts. And we hope to see you all next week for episode seven, The Black Spot. Goodbye.

01:55:53.32

Steve Barnes

Bye, y'all.

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