A Law Student's Guide to the CAB

One for the Law Students

2013-01-18T05:50:00.003-08:00

So this blog is called 'A Law Student's Guide to the CAB', and I realise I haven't discussed how the CAB isn't just a folly that a few of those reading law at university take on for that little bit of extra experience, but should in fact, be something any law student wanting to practice should make an effort to become a part of.

So the first point I have to make is that universities aren't preparing their law students for the legal services market. Why, you ask?

Let's put it this way, how many law students know what is really happening in the legal services market right now?

How many of you know what a an 'Alternative Business Structure' is; or what piece of legislation enacts this change and the reasoning behind introducing the ABS?

Let's be honest, it's nothing a Google search can't solve and more than likely you'll end up at the www.lawgazette.co.uk, who at the time of writing this, even have an article regarding a new Leeds-based ABS firm 'Brilliant Law'.

I doubt a lot know what their chances of securing a training contract or a pupillage are if the achieved a 2:1 at a non-Russell Group university. This is just one example of something you should know, or at least know the figures that can be tailored to yourself.

There are few compulsory subjects in studying law in order to practice and studying the current market clearly isn't high on the list of priorities for many students, but I plead that any A-Level, undergraduate, graduate, heck; even post-graduate law students, take a look outside at what is really happening and do the research because trust me, it pays off a lot quicker than you think.

On my scouting trips on the web for my second mini pupillage, I found what is possibly the most condescending descriptions on a chambers' website;

"As part of the mini pupillage you will experience the daily operations of a barrister chambers and you will also attend court and witness a real Court Case."

I don't know about you, but even before doing my first mini pupillage, I knew what one entailed, and I definitely knew I would see court action. It would seem that whomever wrote this seems to believe going to view a court case (Yes, that's 'court case' without capitals!) is limited to being on a mini pupillage. Here's some news we all know, anyone can go and view a criminal court case in the Magistrates Court and the Crown Court (Capitals for pro-nouns), subject to the sensitivity of the case i.e., if it involves minors, or some cases of rape etc.

Even in the County Court, as long as you have permission from the judicial officer for the case, then you are more than welcome to observe (Which is obtained by asking a clerk in the court room prior to proceedings). The observation of cases on a mini pupillage is quite similar to that which takes place during a mini pupillage, the main difference being that you've seen the case briefing, the bundles, the litigation paperwork and you get to hear/read you're mini-pupil master's statements prior to the case and hearing discussions in the Judge's chamber.

I know I've sidetracked from the theme of this blog, which is the relevance of training with the CAB, but I had to get my opinion of law students who fail to realise the current market and that their chances of employment for a solicitor or barrister isn't all butterflies and rainbows.

So the 'up to £80,000' in fees and loans question is;

What skills can training with a Citizens Advice Bureau give me that my degree won't?

How about client care and contact, a skill you'll never develop attending lectures hungover, and seminars, if you attend them, worse. Even attending them both, and sober (Calm down, it's not a pre-requisite. How do you think I got this far; not wholly sober, I can assure you) you'll never meet a client, you'll never learn the complexities of ascertaining all the information from a client, who may or may not want to part with all the details, and you'll definitely not understand how to tailor each piece of advice you give to the client. A scenario question in law is great, you can solve that problem when all the information is handed to you on a plate, but that's basic, really basic.

Speaking in public is an issue I see all to often, even during my mini pupillage and honestly, I was appalled. It seems to be an issue mostly among junior counsel and trainee solicitors, but irrespective of that, if you're standing in a court, you hardly sound interesting or believable with the regular 'errm' and 'arrh'. I was really lucky on my mini-pupillage during that both of the barristers I was shadowing had great elocution in court, but a particular opposing counsel on a case, who was a junior barrister at a local chambers did not, it was a poor effort and something that can be easily addressed by having to communicate with people from all walks of life. I'll happily talk to a stranger in the street, shout out loud to embarrass my housemate in Tesco during peak hours and other such ways that reinforce speaking with confidence and conviction. Shouting "Natalie, incest isn't legal and I'm not interested in you that way!" isn't nearly as entertaining stopping halfway through for an 'errm' and not having the confidence to do it loud enough.

It sounds terribly stupid, but it works. There are obviously other, more formal way to do this, such as teaching a class. It's not as hard as you think, I did a one-day course with the charitable society 'Leeds Action' at the University of Leeds, and now on occasions me and another member will train others for the Child Protection level 1 qualification which gives me more than enough confidence to get up in front of an audience and just talk; talk about anything I either do or do not know. It's not difficult, but practice certainly helps.

For all of those budding solicitors out there, a deal that the SRA and Citizens Advice struck with the CAB training was that it had the potential to reduce the training contract commitment from 12 months to 6 months, which is a pretty hefty reduction, both in time to qualify, but the cost you are to the firm. The cost of training a solicitor isn't cheap, both financially and in man hours. So come at a high street firm with the potential to 1/2 your training contract, you're instantly a much more viable candidate for that treasured TC! There isn't much information on this, but I'm working to find more.

Some areas of law are so contentious that most points must be backed up by legislation, or case law. Now this is something that will be drilled in to you during training, that anything we tell a client must be backed up by information on our incredibly comprehensive private information system or from Advice Guide. You must always reference these when you are writing up the case, or your guidance tutor will not be happy.

A skill I definitely lacked prior to my position at Leeds CAB was my ability to network face-to-face. Sure I could do it online, but a face to face meeting was something I would have struggled with this time last year. From joining CAB, you're bombarded with extra training course, and some of these are run by external firms, for instance, a local Chambers were running their Annual Housing Update at the Local businessman's club, and there is where I managed to network my way in to a mini pupillage! This wasn't my first event; it was my seventh, and it takes guts to go and talk law as a 2nd year with a Judge, barrister or a solicitor, but it does pays off. At the same event, I was offered a work experience placement with the council's litigation department too, all testament to networking really being the best skill to have.

This is just a small sample of what a CAB can do for a law student, but remember, you're competing with thousands of other undergrads and graduates for the same position, so if something is going to separate you from the rest, let it at least be CAB adviser experience.

Unfortunately, if you don't play the game that studying law entails, you'll never win.

If you enjoyed post, please feel free to click an advert!

Hello, Is It Me You're Looking For?

2012-09-08T10:49:00.002-07:00

I found my Advice Leeds Training Programme today, so I thought it would be something that you would appreciate me showing you.

Training Programme Page 1

Training Programme Page 2

By taking time to maybe click an advert, you keep me being able to post about CAB training. Thank you.

From this you can see that this blog is going to be about the skills taught to you about 'Working with Clients'.

As soon as you open this training pack you are hit with the big title 'Understanding Discrimination', it's clear from this point where the 'working with clients' training is going and probably would have been better named if it had just been 'Understanding Discrimination'.

Below this title you are asked to define 4 words with your own definition;

Prejudice;

Discrimination;

Stereotyping; and

Harassment.

The all sound pretty simple, but you would be incredibly surprised with the different responses you get especially the older trainee volunteers (not to stereotype) but they feel less of a need to be as politically correct about such things generally.

One thing you do come to realise through this is the amount of effort the Bureau goes to in order to protect the incredible work that has gone in to becoming one of the longest standing, anti-discriminatory service provider/charity/employer etc.

You'll also ask yourself at some point, "Why isn't this just general human decency and common sense?" Unfortunately the answer is that differences, however small, no matter it's origin, breeds fear and eventually hate (No, I'm not a communist; I believe difference can also breed compassion and diversity).

The next part of the training takes a look in to behaviours once someone has been discriminated against, known as 'cushioning'.

Examples of cushioning are;

Avoiding the situation;
Seeking support;
Joking about it;
Rising above it;
Fighting back; and
Putting the shutters down or closing yourself off to others and your own feelings.

These all sound like legitimate ways in which people protect themselves when confronted with discrimination because most people will at some point will have been in at least one situation when they feel like someone has picked on them, or they have been at the butt of a joke they didn't like.

The problem with cushioning is that although to the person who has been discriminated against, it seems like the best idea, the behaviour that can be inadvertently projected can change how you're perceived to others; take for instance

Putting the shutters down may make you appear aloof;
Avoiding the situation might be perceived as 'sitting on the fence'; and
Fighting back will only be seen as aggression.

Part of your role as an adviser or a gateway assessor is to acknowledge these behaviours and find the stem without prematurely judging your client.

Up next, discrimination law.

The opening tag line to this, is one I find quite hard hitting;

'However unfair discrimination may be, only some discrimination is unlawful'

So straight you're given a handout about the Equality Act 2010, which gives the low-down (getting down with the kids now) on what the Act is about.

Essentially it's a consolidation of previous Acts, with a few amendments and additions. Here's a PDF of the handout.

Equality Act 2010 Handout

You lightly touch the topics of direct and indirect discrimination. Direct discrimination is quite easily pointed out, after all, it is the nature of being direct. Indirect discrimination is something I personally feel quite strongly about, but I wouldn't want to drop my views on you too much.

The best way to explain this is to give an example.

An employer of a factory has to make the unfortunate decision to make a certain number of employees of his factory redundant, he feels that it would less affect the part-time workers of his factory to be made redundant as they would be the least financially in comparison to the full-time workers. After issuing the redundancy notices, it becomes clear that the majority of the part-time workers are women, could be found guilty of indirect discrimination.

How this works fully in practice could be different, but I'll leave you to make your own decisions!

Let's move on to a more entertaining section about certain words or phrases and whether you should use them.

Actually, I have a better idea! I'll list them now, look at them and decide if you could use them or not and why, then I will put the answers at the bottom of the post and you can comment if any surprised you!

Handicapped
Coloured
Youngsters
The Deaf
Schizophrenic
Homosexual
Policeman

I hope they do this in other CABs, but our training pack includes an assertiveness test. It makes sense, because if you can't be assertive, how do you intend on combatting discrimination? You get to see who is assertive and who is quite dismissive.

This leads on quite comfortably to what you should do if ever a client comes in to the bureau and discriminating you, a colleague or another client. Apparently it's very rare, I've only had one occasion where I have ever had to say anything and the client was very easy to deal with from that point.

I believe it was a racist remark about people from Poland, it required a simple "I'm afraid we don't tolerate remarks like that, please do not repeat that while you are in the Bureau."

Stand your ground, show conviction in what you say and people will listen.

You're also given some tips on how to strengthen your stance like using the word 'we' instead of 'I' in order to show you have the CAB behind you. Simple statements mean you don't have to deal with a reply and normally they aren't used to being told "No."

Just don't come across as aggressive as this may lead to conflict, it's all about balance. The following paragraphs explains two other types of client you may get, these are regulars and stayers.

Regulars are the clients who may come for the warmth of company, or because they have an unsolvable problem. Some people have limited human contact and as such use appointments for this reason. Don't mix up these regulars with people who attend regularly because they can't understand official letters, or have many genuine problems.

When we have a problem that we are unable to solve at a Bureau for any reason, we try our best to at least signpost (refer without appointment) to another agency or solicitors who can help them, but some people refuse to take this information and continue to return to the bureau with the same problem. This again is a test of assertiveness and the ability to tell a client "No."

The other type are Stayers; these are the client who even after you have solved their issue, are very reluctant to leave the bureau, it is best to make sure that they have no other issues or not waiting for anything.

It's an issue due to waiting areas being generally small and waiting times being held up, and although it sounds rude to be direct with these rare clients, it is necessary though.

That's it for this post! Time for those answers!

Handicapped - No - Handicaps are for golf, not people.
Coloured - No - His name is 'George', chances are people don't care he's black.
Youngsters - Not really - This is age discrimination, darn kids, oops.
The Deaf - Yes - It's captioning the obvious, not offensive unless meant so.
Schizophrenic - Yes - Again, you're captioning.
Homosexual - No - Apparently this is offensive, I don't see it personally.
Policeman - No - Not all police officers are men!

Let's Get Down to Business

2012-08-19T09:40:00.000-07:00

So this is the first official training session we have at Leeds CAB. The training itself isn't organised by Leeds CAB, but ran by Advice Leeds and accredited by OCR.

This qualification is one of few that some solicitor's firms count as time added toward your training contract. This would have to be organised with any firms when applying for the training contract.

The first session is called 'Principles of Advice'. The topics within each training session are listed on the training schedule which I will put a copy of on this blog when I have access to a scanner.

I apologise in advance, this is far from one of the most exciting topics, both for me and you, but it is a necessity if you want to know everything I know about the work you may well do, should you join!

The first task is to understand the key principles, which goes through how each of the four tenets apply to our everyday work in the CAB.

Confidentiality

I told you about having to sign a confidentiality agreement in the last post, this explains the full requirements of how to abide to the agreement. I'm going to paraphrase, but the rules are still the same.

-Any time you discuss your work outside of the CAB, you must make sure that you don't say anything that could identify a client in any way.

-You must not tell anyone outside the bureau any of the content of the interview without the clients explicit permission, even when referring to an outside agency e.g. JobCentre Plus, Family Law clinics etc.

-You can't tell any other person or agency that a particular client has consulted your service. This mostly applies to consumer work and employment work, not informing an outside company about help that has been received from yourselves just incase it has repercussions on the client.

-As a member of a CAB, you automatically have access to any case files you wish to see should you want to, but these can not be shared with anyone outside and should never leave the bureau. The same applies to both electronic and paper, you are briefed on data protection and it's corresponding Act.

Independent

The next part is each bureau being independent from any sources of funding and never having to owe a duty to our funders. The main source of funding comes from local councils, but we are free at any time to challenge the council on any issues that clients come to us about. Sometimes local/national companies give funding to CABs and expect a bit of preferential treatment; no, it does not work this way. The best we can do should they ask after having an issue raised on several occasions is we can put it to our social policy team who liaise with outside agencies, companies, local/national Government in trying to correct the issue at its source.

Free

This one is quite self explanatory. There are many people who can't afford basic legal advice and as such may suffer because of this, we provide a service where we can inform and advise anyone who comes to as an individual, or group of individuals. Some Bureaus have donation boxes, but they are never brought up in conversation to prevent the client feeling awkward or pressured.

Impartial

This is aimed all staff members of any bureau. This is how we keep any and all prejudices outside of work. This service prides itself on being one of the longest running anti-discriminatory services in the country, maybe even the world.

There are posters in our bureau about anti-discriminition that are probably older than I am, it's quite tempting to just design some new ones.

Now that's over, lets move on. The next section of this session was to understanding clients and their feelings and concerns.

Concerns that new clients can have when they first come to use the service is that the generally don't know if we can help them, butI would say that about 95% of time we either deal with the issues in house or we signpost them to a service that can service the needs of client better than we can. I've only ever seen one client so far where we couldn't help because it's an area that we can not deal and have no one we can refer to. This is just one example, but concerns range from language barriers and interpreters to impartiality and whether the service is free.

From these concerns, you can draw feelings from clients; at this point you need to know how to effectively resolve these negative feelings to maximise the quality of advice you give to a client. For example, a client who is nervous and worried about the service may not be willing to share as much information.

This is also one of the reasons we don't have a dress code; casual dress makes the client feel like the are talking on an equal level, rather than being interrogated.

In the same session, you assess your communication skills, but these are fairly simply and are followed by a mock interview with someone else in your training group.

Every week, for 15 weeks you will get a learning record, which is just a fancy name for homework. Some are easier than others and some are just crazy difficult.

Sometimes it isn't just the learning record to complete, some require to do online training packs through CABLink (A compilation of online CAB resources available to CAB members). This particular learning record asks you to to do a training pack about data confidentiality; now I know what you're thinking; lie! It's not that easy, when you finish the online pack, there is an online test and once you've completed that, a certificate that you have keep in your pack.

The learning pack is fairly simple this week. It asks about H&S (health and safety) procedures, equal opportunities services, Acts and the limitation to advice work you can do in the bureau.

Oh, the limitations are on;

-Specialist Immigration Advice (heavily regulated)
-Financial advice (Banking etc.) and;
-Casework/representing a client on a continual basis.

That is it for that weeks training. My apologies if I bored you, I couldn't help it.

Let the games, err, training begin!

2012-08-16T04:22:00.000-07:00

So after the interview it took less than two weeks to hear back from Leeds bureau to let me know I had been successful.

Just to show how serious you have to be about wanting to compete with others to do this; take in to account that Leeds CAB receives on average 80 applications per week and only recruits new volunteers 2-3 times per year and in these groups there are only 15-20 per group.

This is for advisers, I don't know the stats for the other volunteer roles, but I can surely get them for my next post.

And a quick update on my current progress on my training before I get down to the start of the training which was now 16 weeks ago for me! I finally did my first supported advice interview just an hour ago, gave advice, filled out forms, filled in a CASE (Citizens Advice's system to recording client contact) using my own login. I told myself I wouldn't be nervous - giving it the whole 'Eye of the Tiger' theme tune as I walked in to the room, sat down, opened my mouth and suddenly felt about as useful as asking a ferret to perform open-heart surgery.

After the supervised interview, the supervisor said that I did a very good job, he also thought I had already had practice and that it was probably my last supported interview.

My ego is now this <------------------------------------------------------------> big.

Anyway I'm bragging, back to the business of this post.

So on the first session is an induction, it's kind of a mixture of an induction and an overall view of what you will be getting up to on your training and looking at a few basics, health and safety and how to deal discrimination and potentially aggressive clients.

So before you know it you're faced with a confidentiality contract, not something like you would see on the TV show Spooks or the likewise, just a simple confidentiality contract stating that you will not under any circumstances discuss details about clients outside of the bureau that you are situated in with authorisation from the bureau manager. Common sense really if you had read the previous post about the four tenets of every bureau.

You have quick tour around the bureau meet a few people, pretend to remember a few names, and we had our photo taken for a photo wall which has everyone picture and name on it (great for when you can remember a face, but not a name!)

I know this post is short, and that I spent most of it bragging, but I'm going to put the first training session on a new post.

The First Hurdles

2012-08-11T10:52:00.001-07:00

This post is all about the application and interview process; quite possibly the most nerve-wrecking time of it all - it seemed at the time like I was for the result from UCAS all over again.

The application process. I'll not be modest about this part, at all; I'm terrible at application forms, absolutely awful. Chances are, a penguin could probably do a much better job than I could.

It has been many weeks since I applied for this position so I couldn't remember the questions on the application form, but I have managed to grab a copy of the form from;

http://www.leedscab.org.uk/forms/volunteers/Volunteer%20Application%20Form%20%20Feb%202012.pdf

The first thing to address is if you want to apply for an adviser position, make sure you can dedicate at least 8 hours on a single day dependant on the training day allocated and another 4 hours minimum to spend in Bureau.

The questions aren't as rigorous as a lot of application forms. The first question asks why you want to volunteer at the CAB and what you hope to get from working there; this varies from person to person. I remember putting something along the lines of 'I want to volunteer at Leeds CAB because I feel like I can really bring purpose to my area of study where I can direct my previous knowledge and take it to the next level through training and experience with Leeds CAB. I hope to gain real insight to how Leeds really depends on the advice and information and understand how I can develop myself in order to meet these demands both of myself and charitable organisations in the area'.

I am going to advise you not to copy that because if your supervisor found out, I doubt they would be very happy at all.

The question 'What do you think are the main problems facing your community?' is the one that can really score you some points, however this varies from area to area and what you define as your community. I personally found that issues affecting my area were not only the ones you could see on the news, but also the opinions of those people affected by such things. Acknowledging things such as; youth unemployment, homelessness, welfare advice and other such things is invaluable however, the main point is to understand these issues, not only state what the main problems are, but to understand these issues and say why they need solving.

I'm going to leave it there on the application form and move on to the interview process as I can't be giving you too many hints now, can I?!

So I was emailed to attend an interview on April 4th 2012. I can promise you I was happier than a child on Christmas day.

Saying the interview process was difficult would be an understatement. It was a three-stage interview.

Ok, so I said that there might be a bit of a delay on when I got round to finishing this post, the pub called, then work happened, a lot of work.

On the plus side, tomorrow I start giving actual advice interviews while being observed to check I am doing it right, then my guidance tutor feels I should be able 'ride solo' by next week.

So let's get on with the interview process.

First off it's a face-to-face interview which lasted about 20 nerve-wracking minutes. It is completely random who gets the honour of interviewing you, I got to be interviewed by the training supervisor and second in charge of Leeds CAB. This did not help my nerves at all. I was shaking faster than a hummingbird's wings.

I'll throw this in the pot now, DO YOUR RESEARCH.

If you don't I guarantee you will fail, if at least you memorise the four tenets that cover every bureau in the country you have covered first base;

Impartial;
Free;
Confidential; and
Independent.

You also need to explain why these are important, but I'm not giving you any more answers.

Questions can include things about how you would react in a situation that feels close to home, or you feel very strongly about. That wasn't an easy one for me, I'm more of your, stone-like facade kind of guy.

There wasn't just the interviewer in the room, there was another person, who would ask me a question every now and then, but hers weren't as memorable or scary.

Watch out for body language especially, it can make or break your interview. This is because one day be giving advice to other people and clients are going to open up or trust our service if we have aggressive or lazy postures and body language.

After the interview, you get taken in to another room to do a written assessment. It's not incredibly difficult, but you have to use their flagship resource www.adviceguide.org.uk. It is a fantastic tool and it's a great test to see if you can properly use the resources available because AdviserNet (used only by advisers) is what you'll actually be using when you advise and it's a whole lot more complicated!

My problem was about a woman who was applying for maternity pay and you were given her background, her job description, her wage, her living situation and many other factors; from this you were to write a letter to her detailing whether she was entitled to maternity pay and how much she would be entitled to each week.

Get some practice using advice guide, it's a great resource available to everyone!

The last stage of the interview was a mock telephone conversation assessing your capability to take note of relevant information and use the booking system at the time, it is made more difficult by the person on the other end of the phone because they will try to miss certain bits of information out, and you don't have cues just a sheet with boxes on a computer, and always, ALWAYS, double check the phone numbers and which phone number they want to be contacted on. I aced that one, without a doubt. I am extremely comfortable dealing with clients and third parties over the phone.

That concludes the application and interview process. I hope you enjoy and I should have another on tomorrow (hopefully).

No Better Place to Start than at the Beginning

2012-08-11T05:39:00.000-07:00

First off, I apologise to anyone who I kept waiting for this blog to begin, I am running 5 days late with it. Apologies especially to @ParalegalTony for that.

I guess the best place to start is at the beginning, and to do that I need to give you a background in to Citizens Advice, it's development and it's work.

I've officially completed the 15 weeks mandatory weekly training, but I am going to go through all of these with you, each week's training will have its own post.

This was the first thing we were taught was the history of Citizen's Advice; it all begins back in 1935 when a newly established social welfare system has been introduced, but the Government contemplates the need for information service.

On the 3rd September 1939 war was declared with Germany and within 24 hours, on the 4th September the first 200 Citizen's Advice Bureaux's open in order to provide information about homelessness, evacuation and advice on lost ration books. People were so intent on helping others that not only did these bureaux get set up in commercial spaces; they were set up in private houses, shops and one man even set one up in a converted horse box and headed to areas that had been bombed in order to help those who were in dire need.

We have come a long way since that point, nearly 73 years later, there are 382 Citizens Advice Bureau charities providing information and advice from over 3,500 community locations.

In this blog I will be focusing on the work we do at the Bureau in Leeds City Centre and how it has helped me develop myself, my experience (work and life) and my appreciation for this great service that is free to all.

The main areas of work we deal with at the Leeds bureau are;

-Housing and Homelessness

-Debt Management Advice

-Benefits advice

-Immigration and Nationality Rights

-Family Advice

-Employment

-Discrimination

We do deal with many other areas, however to list them all could take me a fortnight and wouldn't be of great use to you or myself.

My plan for this blog is take you through the training and experiences I have had so far and make you aware of how much of benefit volunteering with such an organisation has for legal work experience. I will regularly be trying to gauge the opinions of experts in the legal sector and get their opinions on how they feel about law students working for Citizen's Advice and how they feel it benefits students.

Kyle