THE ROCK INTERVIEWS OF AARON JOY

"I would like to play to the metal fans where its not possible right now. Especially being a girl." An Interview With DORO of WARLOCK

2020-09-29T17:20:00.003-07:00

Oct 2010 (phone)

German vocalist & songwriter Doro Pesch found fame fronting Warlock in the 1980's. Line-up changes left her the only original member, which morphed into a solo career that would explore a range of metal styles over the ensuing decades. She would become known worldwide as the Queen of Heavy Metal, or just the Metal Queen. During the grunge era her albums had limited release in America. This would change with the release of Calling The Wild in 2000, which led to her first U.S. tour in a decade. In 2020 she became the first heavy metal artist to perform a drive-in concert during the Covid-19 lockdown. She is known for choosing not to get married or have a family, as she is totally committed to metal music & the metal community. As a woman in music she has also shied away from glamour & sexual self-exploitation, never posturing as a sex symbol but always putting the music first. She has gained much respect for this approach & called a pioneer for female metal fans & musicians.

For many years I was planning to write the biography of guitarist Al Pitrelli of Megadeth, Alice Cooper, Trans-Siberian Orchestra & many other outings, as I thought he had an interesting story worthy of being shared. That book project was retired incomplete, but parts I transformed into the first history of Danger Danger, as Al was an original member, published in 2019 as Drivin' Sideways: The Story Of The Band Danger Danger. In my research I did many interviews with musicians who had worked with him. Doro was one of these, so the focus of this interview is on Al's contribution to Calling The Wild. The hour long interview, edited down, would be broadcast as part of a bi-monthly interview podcast I had recently started. I actually had never heard of Doro before delving into Al's career. One thing that came out of my research was my introduction to countless musicians I might not have heard of otherwise, Danger Danger & Trans-Siberian Orchestra included. This interview mentions her visiting me where I worked. I thought this was just her being nice, but a few months later she came in just before we closed. Photo posted here. Ironically, I had stayed late, just talking to my boss. I didn't recognize her, but my boss was tapping me on the arm thinking it was her before she spoke, as he knew I had interviewed her. She was so very sweet & showed me a proof of her new DVD. Everyone who talks with her, so I've heard, has said how sincere & open & friendly she is, & you come away feeling like you had a bonding moment with a wonderful woman. Later she performed in Manhattan at the intimate Webster Hall for a few hundred. I waited in the front afterwards with many fans to greet her, but she went out the backdoor to much disappointment. The concert featured guitarist Chris Caffery guesting, Al's bandmate & who had recorded & toured with Doro, but it was a sad spectacle. When she announced him there was no applause, like they didn't know him or didn't care or didn't like him. Even trying to pump the audience, as he's known to do in Trans-Siberian Orchestra, got a feeble response. On the few songs he played things got worse. I was no more than 20 feet from center stage for the entire show. He may have had moniters, but not a thing came out of the speakers. For his credit he visually played his heart out even if nobody heard him, while it was obvious he knew something was wrong.

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AJ: Not just has Al had a great career & is a great musician, but he's worked with all these great musicians, like yourself, & many of them don't have the credit I think they deserve.

DORO: That is very true & I'm so happy you thought to take care of him.

AJ: Part of my research includes looking at your album Calling The Wild. My work is about Al, but its also about your career in the context around that album. I just wanted to talk with you & get some questions answered that I haven't found in other interviews you've done.

DORO: Excellent. I'm all yours.

AJ: You don't know how appreciative I am to talk with you. Doro, I want to start by going back in time. I mean, before your band WARLOCK.

DORO: Oh, really back!

AJ: Yes, really back. Can you tell me about what inspired you to record a demo & become a singer?

DORO: Actually, my 1st inspiration I got from Little Richard & the single was "Lucille". I was like 3 yrs old. I could just barely handle the record player. I fell in love with this song. My parents got worried because their little girl just wanted to hear music & especially that song. That was the 1st time that I can remember that I was really hooked to music. That got me attracted to it for my whole life. When I grew up, like when I was 6, 7, 8 yrs old ALICE COOPER was pretty huge.

AJ: I love Alice. He's great.

DORO: Isn't he great? Now I've met Alice a couple of times & its been so great, because he was definitely one of my heroes in childhood. & glam rock with T REX & Marc Bolan I loved. I think the wish to become a singer was actually growing from a very early age, since I was 3.

AJ: Did you ever have a deliberate intention to become a musician, or did you think you'd do it as a hobby, or not at all?

DORO: I loved music so much & I played a little bit of piano, but I loved school & I wanted to become a graphic artist. Then I was working & somehow I thought something didn't feel right. I lost so much weight. Which for a girl sometimes, you know, its a compliment & guys say it looks good. But, I was getting less & less. Actually, I went to the doctor's & I went to a hospital & nobody knew what was wrong. Nothing was wrong, but maybe it was because I was a teenager or something, they said, & I should get a new job. In just half a year I was in the hospital again. I found out I had a really really terrible illness [note: tuberculosis] that almost killed me. For awhile I was in the hospital. When you're a teenager you want to go out & hang out, whatever, doing stuff. Then I thought if I ever made it out there alive I would do something with my life with music. 2 weeks after I left the hospital I had my 1st band. That band was called SNAKEBITE. We didn't even know that we were doing metal. I think we just did what we felt. Later on some fans came into our rehearsal & they asked, 'Are you guys a metal band?' We thought that sounded cool & said, 'I guess we are.' Within time things started [for the metal scene in Germany] & later on we realized we were a part of a big growing metal scene. It was very emotional. But, that was actually the reason why I started a band. Maybe if I hadn't been sick I wouldn't have, you know?

AJ: Maybe become a graphic artist or something?

DORO: Yes, I still love doing it & it comes in handy to do all the album covers, logos & posters.

AJ: You hinted on something I wanted to ask about. When you were with SNAKEBITE & then WARLOCK can you tell me what the German metal scene was at that time?

DORO: Of course, you know, we went to all the metal concerts & sometimes some bands came to Germany, especially the British New Wave Of Heavy Metal. It was very influential. I grew up with JUDAS PRIEST, SAXON, IRON MAIDEN, Ronnie James Dio, ACCEPT. My 1st concert was 1980 with WHITESNAKE. That was awesome. Then my 2nd concert was JUDAS PRIEST & ACCEPT. I was a big PRIEST fan. Actually, that was the last day of working in my normal job. You couldn't get any personal phone calls, but you smile at the boss &, you know, he was okay about it. I got a phone call. He said, 'I hope its important.' I said, 'It's very important.' My band manager said, 'Do you want to quit your job?' I asked why. He said, 'You guys can go on tour with your favorite band JUDAS PRIEST.' Then I went to my boss & told him we could go on tour with JUDAS PRIEST & he said, 'What is that?' He had no idea. Of course, he wasn't a metalhead. So, he said, 'Girl, you're crazy, but I wish you all the best & good luck & never come back here, okay?' I said I would definitely give it my all. That was kinda what the scene was like in Germany.

AJ: I've been reading a bio of Ritchie Blackmore & he talks about DEEP PURPLE with David Coverdale coming to Germany. He loved Germany & the Germans also loved the music.

DORO: Totally. I think Germany is definitely, even to this day, I think its a big metal & hard rock market. Because, usually everything is pretty serious in Germany. Actually, that was the reason I always wanted to go to America. In 1987 I went to America for a 3 day promotion tour. After the 2nd day I wanted to stay. Everyone said I couldn't do that, but I thought I would try. Then we did one of our most successful records in N.Y. at the Power Station Studio. Then I could stay. I'm a proud Green Card holder since 1991. I think eventually I want to become an American citizen.

AJ: Doro, my great-grandmother came from Germany.

DORO: What city is she from?

AJ: I don't know. She came to N.Y. in 1900 as a teenager. The story is that she didn't want to speak German & wanted to be an American. She had 10 kids & none of them learned German. American musicians often talk about the differences between American audiences & German or European audiences. As a European musician can you tell me the differences you see between the 2 groups? Is there a difference?

DORO: I think, maybe, little tiny differences. Actually, every city is different. When we tour every place is different. In Germany in the south they are maybe a little bit more outgoing & the north maybe a little bit cooler, but yet metal is in their heart. Metal is worldwide. I think its just little mentality things. Like in South America they have so much passion & fire in their blood. They're so wild. In the north, like in Norway, Finland & Sweden, they're as passionate, but they don't show it as much. Maybe they're a little bit, you know, serious, but they love it just as much. I feel it all. Of course, I love it wild & headbanging & stage diving, but when I feel that they're not so outgoing but they still love it, that's great, too. Every country is a little bit different. A different vibe. For example, what I just told you about the north of Germany, actually the people there are a little bit more serious & a little bit more dry, we would say, but they have the biggest metal festival with Wacken. That's like the wildest festival in the world. So, it all depends. I think people who are into metal & who are supporting metal, like the promoters who do great promotion with total heart & soul in it, that I can definitely feel. It means the people are happy. The people make all the difference. It doesn't matter which country you are in.

AJ: I'll tell you, I am not a journalist. I'm a fan. I'm a metal fan. It's about the music. It's great music. There's nothing else like it.

DORO: I think so, too. I think it definitely can bring people together. I think that's the true form when you want to make peace in the world. Music can have a big effect & a total healing effect. It definitely makes people happy or give them hope. A couple months ago we had a concert. Between songs somebody came up to me, there wasn't a barrier, & he said, "If I can just tell you something. I just want to tell you, I've survived only because of your music." I asked, "What way do you mean that?" He said, "I just got out of jail. 20 years in jail. I wouldn't have survived without the music." I didn't know what he did, but that touched me so much. He was just sitting in his cell listening to the music everyday & it gave him hope & positive energy to survive there. It was hell, but there was something to look forward to.

AJ: I've read interviews with you where people often call you an icon, or I think something I saw was a 'metal goddess.' What when someone gives you that title & they call you this icon, this woman role model, what's going through your head?

DORO: I'm much more like a shy & humble person, so when someone says that it's like do they mean me? I just want people to say something positive about me. Then I'm so happy. If they say I'm a metal queen, you know when its meant well its so nice. It means that you did something good for people. You gave them inspiration or motivation. It's a very nice feeling, but, like I said before, I'm a metalhead, too, & a total fan. I love music & I love people. If I feel I can make them happy, even for song or a concert or for just a couple of minutes I'm so grateful & so happy. So, if I have to be the metal queen at least its something nice.

AJ: Well, you definitely don't sound anything like the the leather wearing singer on stage. You sound much more humble & normal than in the image you put out there.

DORO: On stage its a different avenue. I'm a very warm person, but the stage gets the animal in me.

AJ: It's like Alice Cooper. There's Alice & then there's Vincent. We have Doro & then we have Dorothee.

DORO: Exactly. That's a good example. When I met Alice I thought he was such a polite gentleman & super nice. I remember when I was growing up, the snake & the make-up, that was cool. But, you could always sense he was a super nice person.

AJ: Speaking of Alice, its a good moment to ask you about Al Pitrelli, since he used to be Alice's guitarist. Let's talk about your album Calling The Wild. I know before then you hadn't released an album in America in awhile. You were doing all this music but you couldn't break into the American scene like you had wanted to. What was going through your head at the time, if you can remember?

DORO: I think we did really well in the '80's. That was great. Like '87 to '89. Then in the '90's when grunge took over it was so hard & especially in America. Every time I made a record the record company would say, "That isn't grunge." "No, it's not grunge, but I think it's beautiful. It has great songs." They said, "No, if its not grunge than we can't release it." It was record after record, then I peaked in 1999. Somehow people liked metal bands again & metal was kinda like coming back. We couldn't believe. I was doing this record in 1999. Then I talked to my friend in America & he said, "Can I do something?" I said, "Do whatever you feel is right. Do whatever in your heart you feel you can do." Within 2 weeks he had 4 record companies on the table. I thought no way. They said, "People are interested & metal is coming back a little bit." So, I went over to the record companies. The first one was Koch. I got in the door & they had a great guy working there & he loved the demos. The record wasn't done yet. He said, "Oh, man, it sounds great. We're just opening up a new metal department." That was my 1st record in years. Then we went on tour with Ronnie James Dio. From then on it was like metal was growing & it is here again. The 1980's were so great, but in the '90's all our heads were hanging low. It was definitely tough. People still did touring festivals. I think the 1st Wacken festival was in '90 & we played in '93. There was some metal around, but it was not as big.

AJ: It wasn't the same.

DORO: It was so hard for so long. I think the fans were still there, but the industry didn't support us. Yeah, that was the record that Al Pitrelli played on. He played 2 songs. In Germany we had a little studio in Dusseldorf. Actually, my home town. I co-owned a studio with another band from Dusseldorf [note: DIE KRUPPS], but they were more electronica. With our album we needed somebody who played brilliant guitar. Al plays meaningful, like powerful with high energy, & is a wonderful person. There are people who play on the records & they're good players, but they're strange & difficult. I definitely like people who like to have a good time or have a good vibe, & they put their good energy into the record. Al was so great. He was wonderful & so nice. I remember one very special thing about him. About that time my dad died. While we were recording I got some phone calls from my mom & she said that my dad was not doing well, & I should come home. Al said, "You should go. I'll do my best here. Just take care of your dad." He was so totally understanding & sympathizing. He was definitely feeling for me. It was so so nice. He made me feel so good & gave me big hugs. That is one thing I remember about Al. It totally blew my mind & he was so helpful for me at the time.

AJ: Did you know his music before? How did you find him?

DORO: I remembered him from SAVATAGE & I met them there. I still love to go to concerts & I went to a concert. I don't even know where it was, but I saw them in concert. Al played so great & he looked so great up on stage. He was totally putting his heart & soul into his playing & performance. I thought I would love to get in touch. Then a couple of years later we had this record & I got his number & asked him if he'd play. He said sure. He came to the studio. It was fantastic all the way.

AJ: When did you do this? Was this 1999? I know the record came out here in 2000.

DORO: Actually, the whole record we recorded in one & a half years. I did it all over the world, like in Hamburg, then N.Y.C., then Germany.

AJ: I was looking at this thinking that Al was in MEGADETH in 2000.

DORO: He made it just before.

AJ: I thought so, too. I have a quote about your song "I Give My Blood (Dedication)". This is from a fan I found online. They said: ""Dedication" is the hardest, loudest & fastest stuff Doro has ever released."

DORO: The song "Dedication"? That's so great.

AJ: I found many reviews of this album that said this is a great song. Just a really really great song.

DORO: That's so nice to hear. Why do I not read these nice things? I always loved that song. I think I want to put it in our setlist again. There's so many records. Its so hard to pick & choose, but this one. Yeah, I will put it in.

AJ: What inspired it?

DORO: Actually, the chorus is like for peace & freedom. I dedicate my life to do something positive. I will give my blood to do something good & fight for peace & freedom. That's the message of the song. But, I don't want to call it 'Hope & Freedom.' That sounds much too corny.

AJ: 'I Give My Blood' sounds very metal, too.

DORO: Yes. Sometimes you have to make it sound cool.

AJ: You have a couple other guests on this album. Lemmy, Bruce Kulick, Slash. You have some great folks here. Ironically, I work in a record store here on St. Mark's Place.

DORO: St. Mark's Place! I always go to Trash & Vaudeville clothing store down the block every time I'm in Manhattan.

AJ: I work on the other end of the block at a place called Rockit Scientist Records [note: it closed a year after this interview]. You have to stop by next time you're on the block.

DORO: That would be great. I'm always in New York City. I lived in Manhattan, but now I live in Long Beach. I'm always there when we're not on tour, but we're on tour through the end of the year & next year.

AJ: I work with a guy in the record store, Joey Barbosa, who used to play rhythm guitar with Bruce Kulick in a band, but before Bruce played with KISS. They were in the ANDREA TRUE CONNECTION together, the disco band. You have all these great guitar players you've worked with, & there's others over the years, so how do you decide who's going to play on what song?

DORO: Intuition & by feel. Actually, the songs we did with Lemmy we did in L.A.. It was so cool. We had Bob Kulick there & he played all the guitars, with Joe Taylor. Eric Singer was on drums. Lemmy played guitar, too. It was so great to have him play some guitars & he played a distorted bass solo. It was killer. My dad died on that production. I was totally devasted. Before that, I remember I sent Lemmy a letter through the management. I was in Europe & saw him on MTV, so I wrote him, "Lemmy, it's Doro, I don't know if you remember me, but we're now label mates." There's a photo of Lemmy & me on one of the MOTORHEAD records. I put the photo in & sent the letter. I never expected to hear a thing. Then my dad died & one day later I had to go with my mom to pick up some black clothes. I was totally devastated. I thought I wanted to die myself. I got a phone call & I didn't want to pick it up. But, then I thought, 'Let me see who this is.' It was an L.A. number. I thought it was strange. I picked up the phone & it was Lemmy. I let him know what happened, then I said, "I don't even know if I still want to do something." He said, "You sound so so sad. Let's do something. I think that will bring back good energy to you & maybe you forget a little bit about the heaviness of the situation." I said, "I don't know." He said, "No, come on over to L.A. & let's do something nice." So, I went over to L.A. a couple of weeks later. He was actually an angel to me. He was so nice & we had the greatest time. It was 2 weeks in the studio with Eric, Bob & Joe. It was awesome & a great time, even though I was sad. In my heart I was really hurting, but life could go on.

AJ: Doing your art is a good outlet.

DORO: Totally, totally. I also had so many fans who said something nice & were really looking forward to the next record. I realized some other people have much heavier lives. In a time of tragedy, I thought, I'm really sad, but I have to go on to do something good & give other people hope. So, that was definitely a tough time, but on the other hand, feeling the love from Al & Lemmy & all the people that worked in the studio, there was so much gentle & good energy. It was so great. It was really hardcore. It was awesome & I think the record came out fairly nice, too.

AJ: Its a great record. I have the American version, cause I know its different than the European one. There was another thing you did. You were the co-producer.

DORO: Always. For like 10 yrs. Maybe, Aaron, I didn't understand the question.

AJ: I thought this was your first producing credit?

DORO: Actually, I was always involved, but not putting my name as producer.

AJ: Ok.

DORO: Then the record company couldn't say their producer or something. Usually I always did it on some level.

AJ: So you've always been involved on that end, then?

DORO: Yes, but on Calling The Wild that was actually the first one that was for real. Usually, I'm a good team player. Whoever has a good handle on the song. If somebody has more to offer that I can imagine, that's cool. I produce all the stuff.

AJ: They gave you the spotlight this time.

DORO: Yeah, yeah. I didn't even remember it was on the record. I don't care about that stuff. I just want the fans to be happy & say, 'There's a great song that means something to me.' Then I take the spotlight. But, everything else, I don't even know what credits are on the albums.

AJ: I've read that you had a very successful tour with DIO after. With this album you got back on the American market just as metal was coming back to the mainstream. How has your career been here in America since then, compared to what it was before or during grunge?

DORO: Actually, during the last 10 years its doing pretty well. I think its getting better & better. Its maybe not as big as it was in the '80's, like '87 to '89 when 'All We Are' had heavy rotation on MTV. I guess that won't happen anymore.

AJ: No, not anymore.

DORO: We're still working on it & I think its doing really good. I'm happy that I still have the same band members from Calling The Wild. Bassist Nick Douglas has been with us now for 21 years. Johnny Dee, our drummer, has been with us since 1993. We're still a good team. Now, the world is so much bigger. Tomorrow I go to Russia with them & last week we were just in Japan. Before we were in China, Bulgaria, Czech Republic & all these places that were nearly impossible to tour in the '80's. Now its possible & that's great. Touring gets at least a year after each album. We're still working on it. It's not as big as it was, but I'm pretty happy. I will say it, all the traveling back & forth, I love the States. I love America. Actually, I did my best records in America. Its definitely where I want to live & work & grow old, though usually I'm in the tour bus.

AJ: Is there anything you've not done musically that you want to do?

DORO: Actually, I would like to play to the metal fans where its not possible right now. Especially being a girl, its difficult in some countries. You know, metal is even forbidden. For a woman to sing or like scream its very difficult. So, I would hope I would go to countries where its not possible now, but I will try. I always like to play where its risky. Now we have been to China a couple of times. It felt impossible, but now it almost feels like home. So, I hope, in countries like Iran & Iraq, where I know there are many many metalheads & metal fans. For a woman its impossible. Its very difficult to be able to go there & play for people there who would love it. For the rest of my life I don't have any other wishes. You know, I'm dedicated to metal or married to metal & the fans. So, whatever it takes to make great shows & great records & great tours. Actually, one of my dreams came true to write a music score for a great movie. The 1st movie was called Anuk - The Path Of The Warrior. Now they are planning a second part. I'm playing the main female role in it & writing the music for it, again. That was always a dream. Its like an independent film. Not Hollywood, not glossy, but its very cool. It actually won an award in the New York Film Festival.

AJ: Your manager told me that you have a new DVD/CD boxset out [25 Years In Rock ... & Still Going Strong].

DORO: It's coming out. There was a 25th anniversary celebration with great friends. Everybody was there from the metal scene who did something for us or who we toured with or were friends with. The SCORPIONS came to celebrate. Bobby Blitz of OVERKILL. Warrel Dane of NEVERMORE. All the best ladies of metal were there. My old WARLOCK band members were there. It was the longest concert we ever did, like over 3 hours. It's a nice DVD, with all the highlights of last year's tour. I think its a killer DVD. Some beautiful artwork.

AJ: Do you have any plans to tour in America? When will you be back this way, Doro?

DORO: I just finished a tour like 2 weeks ago.

AJ: I know. I found out after the fact. I would have loved to have seen you in person.

DORO: You didn't see a show?

AJ: No. I didn't know you were here until after the fact.

DORO: That's ashame. Through the end of this year we do a tour of Europe. We tour with MOTORHEAD. I'm so happy to do a tour together. Next year we are coming back to America.

AJ: I'll keep my eyes open this time. Doro, I have nothing more to ask you. You have been a delight to talk to.

DORO: It was so nice to get to know you & talk to you. I would love to visit you in the record store.

AJ: Its a little little store. We sell mostly vinyl these days.

DORO: Aaron, this DVD is coming out on vinyl, cause I did a live record as well. It will come out as vinyl as a picture disc.

AJ: We sell a lot of that. We're actually expanding our metal section, cause metal fans still buy & don't download. The metal community, we're a very supportive community.

DORO: Totally. That's the reason I could always do it. It was always the metalheads. They were always there for me. I know what you mean. I always try to create something that looks expensive & is worthwhile to buy & that they want to buy. Aaron, when you see the DVD you'll love it. I think its one of the best things we have done. Its not out yet, just some youtube trailers.

AJ: That's such a great resource to hear & discover so much music.

DORO: In countries where its illegal to listen to metal or to start a metal band, they can still listen to it through youtube. I love that. Like we just played in Turkey. So many people they came over from Iran & Iraq. They put their lives on the line to be at this festival & to see the bands. It was awesome. That would be the biggest dream if we could come to their country. I would love it, but it's very tricky.

AJ: Maybe someday. The world is changing.

DORO: Hopefully. But, I tell you, they were exactly the same metalheads, like you & me. At first I didn't know where they were from. They looked metal. They had the metal t-shirts. Then we talked & found out. It was great to see them.

AJ: Doro, its a delight talking to you. Thank you for talking time out of your schedule to talk about the past with me.

DORO: It was actually perfect. Between Japan & Russia I just have a couple of days in Germany.

AJ: I'm going to let you go now. I'm sure you have plenty to do.

DORO: Just pack for Russia. Its so cold there. I have to see what kind of stuff I have.

AJ: The fun never ends.

DORO: Never. It could be 24 hours of metal & that still wouldn't be enough. The fans in Russia are great. The last couple of years they became very open & kinda westernized. At first it was strange. Everybody with machine guns. Now its pretty normal & fun to go there.

AJ: How long are you in Russia for?

DORO: One week.

AJ: Are you moving constantly or do you have any time to be a tourist?

DORO: Not so much. In Japan I was so sick. We had a couple of days, but I had a fever & had to stay in the hotel to get prepared for the show. In the end it always works. When you have to do it, it works, but sometimes its painful.

"We Actually Were Up There With Clapton" An Interview With ANTHONY J. FOTI of CLOSENUF & ERIC BLACKWOOD of EDISON'S CHILDREN

2019-05-21T18:02:00.002-07:00

Oct 2010 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #5)

Blackwood & Foti was a N.Y.C. band fronted by songwriters Eric Blackwood & Anthony Foti, who also played guitar & sang with a group of backing musicians. They released one CD & got some national recognition before going their separate musical ways. Foti would release a solo EP & then form Closenuf. Closenuf is a regular feature of N.Y.C. clubs doing covers & Foti originals & have released numerous CD's of original songs. Blackwood would form the Eric Blackwood Band, before putting more focus on career working behind the scenes in the movie & tv industry. He would also research & write a book with his wife on 500 baseball stadiums in America. He return to actively creating new music in 2010 with the sci-fi prog-rock outing Edison's Children, whose debut was a 72 minute almost mystical concept album. This is a duo with Pete Trewavas, the bassist of prog torch bearers Marillion of which Blackwood has been an honorary member of the touring crew since 2005. Blackwood is also the brother of Vincent Pastore, famed for his ill-fated character Big Pussy on TV's The Sopranos.

I first heard of Blackwood & Foti while researching the career of guitarist Al Pitrelli who guested on their album. These unknown bands became my favorite discoveries, versus his better known music with Alice Cooper, Megadeth & Tran-Siberian Orchestra. I contacted Foti wanting to know more about working with Pitrelli & so enjoyed the telephone conversation on the music business that I decided he would be my first guest on the podcast I had just created of music reviews & commentary. Playing with Pitrelli was almost the least interesting thing he had to share in an conversational buzz that was like a father giving advice to a son, with maybe a few secret stock market hints thrown in for good measure. Given I had never done a live interview I never expected that the hour long interview would become so popular that I'd convert my show within a couple months to only interviews & end up talking to folks like Sophie B. Hawkins & Rainbow's Graham Bonnett. I had only limited communication with Blackwood, but both Foti & I reached out letting him know the interview was happening & to feel free to call him. Neither of us expected to hear from him, given his busy schedule.

* * * * *

AJ: welcome to my show, Anthony. You're my 1st guest & it's just an honor to have you.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it so much. It'll be a lot of fun.

AJ: Before we get too far I want to discuss a particular song, which is the basis of how we met. I'm a fan of & have been researching the life of guitarist Al Pitrelli of TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, MEGADETH, ASIA, played with Alice Cooper, Dee Snider & countless others. In my quest to get all his music I came across your recordings with him. We've talked about that experience & I enjoyed so much of what you said about music in general that I wanted to expand our conversation & introduce you to my audience. So, starting from where you & I met seems to be a good jumping off point. The song in question is "At Night" & its a favorite of mine of your work. It's from your 1st album under the name of BLACKWOOD & FOTI, the album is Haunted Memories. This features one of the best, I would say, maybe top 10 guitar solos by Al. Anthony, will you tell me a little bit about "At Night"?

ANTHONY: Sure. This is actually from the debut album of my label Wreckords Records. I was in a progressive acoustic band called BLACKWOOD & FOTI. Aaron, you're the captain of 6 degrees of separation, so you will appreciate this. What happened was my relative is in the ARROGANCE, which is a band from the '60's. Eventually they wanted to put all their material on CD. They got a producer named Dave Greenberg who worked with Van Morrison.

AJ: What's Dave doing now? I know he's working with some big names?

ANTHONY: He shifted a little bit from rock'n'roll & he's doing work with Method Man & Redman & some of the big hip hop acts now. Back then, he co-owned a production company with Al Greenwood from FOREIGNER.

AJ: Isn't he one of the founding members? He was the keyboardist, right?

ANTHONY: He's the one in "Cold As Ice" when you hear those slamming keyboards at the beginning. You can't miss him. So, I brought the band in. The funny thing was we were between guitarists & we also had a drummer who couldn't play with a click track at the time. So, the producer said, "Don't worry. We'll bring some ringers in for you & we'll make this project really worth our while." They brought in Vinnie Conigliaro who's played with everybody from like Joe Satriani, Joe Lynn Turner, Meat Loaf, etc. to be our drummer for this tune.

AJ: Joe Lynn Turner, who sang in RAINBOW for those that might not immediately know the name.

ANTHONY: Right. & Al Pitrelli was brought in.

AJ: When Al worked with you he'd already been working with Dee Snider in WIDOWMAKER & Alice Cooper & the new line-up of ASIA.

ANTHONY: Right. 1st the name eluded me. Then he comes in. Here's this skinny guy with long hair sitting on a stool. He played his guitar almost like a classical guitar with the neck up in the air. Put on the headphones & we had him do 4 numbers on the album, working on solos, intros & outros. But, he really took a shine to this song. He said it was the best song on the album. I think just because he just had the most fun with it. We really wrote it as a pop tune with with a hook to try to get, you know, to try to pierce the corporate veil & get some radio airplay. It's Al at his best & it was really a highlight for the band to be able to actually produce something that a lot of people have noticed. It's not just Al. It was just a the meeting of the minds & the hearts & the souls at the time. It's a song about ... well, I picture the video someday with a man who wakes up in the middle of the night & his woman is not next to him & he feels around. He winds up putting on his coat & goes out in the pouring rain & he follows her to see what's going on. It's just this bump in the road that makes a very spooky rock tune. I always had Rick Derringer & people like that in mind when I wrote it & I thought it was just a cool tune. I hope everybody enjoys it.

AJ: How much did you instruct Al & Vinny or how much freedom did you give them?

ANTHONY: Well, the drummer more. We had a structure & drum pattern there to to guide him as a bed track, but the guitar work, no. We had the progression, of course, with the acoustic, but we gave free reign. It was funny because Al would just do a couple of takes & then he would just nod his head & they would let the tape fly. Most of "At Night" is just off the cuff, because he just felt it. Sometimes you can't re-record when you have that magic. You let it go. You captured it & it's in. We were looking through the glass & we were like whoa. It really gives you that feeling that you wrote something that someone is able to embellish upon & then you say to yourself 'Okay. this is more than just a rock tune or a pop tune. This is something that has some substance & some art to it.'

AJ: Let's make a note here that down the road this particular song would get some recognition?

ANTHONY: Yes.

AJ: We've got to mention the recognition, as I think it just caps the story of the song.

ANTHONY: Absolutely. Years later I wound up starting a band called CLOSENUF. It was 2001. Al recorded with us for BLACKWOOD & FOTI in 1994. We re-recorded the song, because we wanted to have everything on the new album played by us. I brought this song as part of my repertoire to the new band & the guitarist turned in a really respectful version of what Al did. He knew he had to be his own man, but he also saw how Al guided the song. So, we re-recorded it & we had a fresh version. A little more pumping. We extended the drums in the middle. Our promoter out in Rhode Island wound up getting this version on the Grammy ballot for Best Pop Performance by a duo or group in 2010. So, you know, the whole thing is that the song itself from a writing & performing standpoint has had serious recognition, but we also know that Al & Vinnie & Dave & Al Greenwood, etc., they gave us the ingredients that made the cake that eventually got us the recognition. Both versions are on our current album in our 15th anniversary of the record label for compare & contrast & it's a lot of fun.

AJ: It's such a great song & knowing all that story behind it just makes it more interesting. Before going on to the next topic, I actually have a caller on the line. I don't know who this is. Hello, caller, are you there?

ERIC: I am here.

AJ: Who are we talking to?

ANTHONY: I know who this is.

ERIC: This is Anthony Foti's haunted memory.

ANTHONY: I know who this is. This is Eric Pastore Blackwood of BLACKWOOD & FOTI.

AJ: Eric, welcome to my show.

ERIC: Aaron, how ya doing?

ANTHONY: Wow, man, I have not spoken to Eric other than e-mails in, what is it, 10 years? More?

ERIC: I think it may even be more than that. 15 maybe.

ANTHONY: Wow, this is a BLACKWOOD & FOTI reunion.

ERIC: They said it would never happen.

AJ: Since I have both of you on the phone you can both answer. Let's talk about BLACKWOOD & FOTI. Bring me back in time. How did you guys meet up? Where did you start? Either one of you. Eric, go ahead.

ANTHONY: Actually, Eric, how did we meet?

ERIC: You know, that's a good question. You were my insurance agent.

ANTHONY: That's it! That's right, I was selling insurance. I sold him an automobile policy. I dropped out of law school to continue my musical career. I picked up a property & casualty license to make some money. Eric came in & it turned out he was a singer/songwriter & so was I. He lived on Staten Island. I worked on Staten Island. Eric's influences & his writing style were really what I was looking for it at the time. It was this progressive stuff that had an acoustic guitar & we had a real abject respect for Dan Fogelberg, John Denver, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Harry Chapin, Van Morrison & Billy Joel & all the people who were crafting stuff. We liked longer songs & interesting songs like GOLDEN EARRING & you liked MARILLION, & PINK FLOYD & KANSAS & RUSH. It was really what we were looking for. We got some buddies together & we started the act. It was very eclectic. We worked like crazy.

ERIC: Yeah, we would do 6 gigs a week. We were busy.

ANTHONY: I have to owe a lot to it. We had some falling outs & we had more drummers than SPINAL TAP, including this 400 pound Hell's Angel guy.

ERIC: I forgot about him.

ANTHONY: I thought he was gonna break the drums every time he played. So, we lost a few members & we started going through some changes & that's why it started falling apart. Now, Eric is actually doing special effects work for movies. His 2 brothers are actors, so he went into the Hollywood type side of the business & I stayed in music. But, the BLACKWOOD & FOTI, the whole thing about it was it was crafting. Even my current album has 4 songs that are co-written by Eric that have always been in my repertoire that people have always really enjoyed. It also made us start the record label & it made us get serious about creating a NY state S Corp, joining ASCAP, following the music, dealing with entertainment attorneys, releasing singles around the country, reproducing & designing album art. All that started because of the of the organization & the business aspect that Eric & I took together. I mean, the 25 years I've been doing it & the 15 years of the label, I owe a lot to Eric. It wasn't just 'We're gonna get girls & young people want to score pot.' It has nothing to do with that. It was business. It was fun. It was creative. It was artistic. But, there was business. It still stands today. Even the current guys in CLOSENUF, which is the spawn of BLACKWOOD & FOTI at this point, they know it. They know that the business is just as important as the art.

AJ: You know, the music & performing is really just half of it. The other half is business. I think a lot of bands fall apart because they're not paying attention to the business.

ANTHONY: Right.

ERIC: Absolutely.

AJ: I've been in bands because the guys thought success was found in the rehearsal room only & the business would happen by itself. You make both a good point & a bad point, Anthony. Eric, since I have you joining us, unexpectedly, are you still doing music? I know your movie work takes up a lot of time, but are you still playing?

ERIC: Yes. I'm in the middle of doing an album with some of my biggest heroes that I grew up listening to. I'm going to be putting on a new album soon. My music career has done pretty well. After BLACKWOOD & FOTI broke up I continued a little bit longer as the ERIC BLACKWOOD BAND with all the same songs. After that we went a little bit alternative rock for 7 years with the lead guitarist we had at the end of BLACKWOOD & FOTI. He became the lead singer & he drove the band for several years. After that I started writing music for movies & got further involved in the movie business because my brothers are in it, as Anthony eluded to. Now I've been mostly doing special effects for TV & motion pictures, but the music is still a part of me. Because of how busy the business I kind of got out of it, but I'm getting back into it again more so now in the last 5 years.

AJ: Obviously you heard the beginning with Anthony talking about the album & "At Night." When you're hearing that song again & going back, what's running through your head, Eric? What's your thoughts on this past life?

ERIC: I'll tell you, one of the things, listening to it after not hearing it for a while, it really still sounds pretty damn good. I mean, the work we did together really still shines. I think it still stands up pretty nicely. You know the work that Al Pitrelli did & all the work that Greenberg did in getting us all the players that would come in & perform with us, it was actually kind of a magical thing the way it all kind of just unfolded. It's a shame that it all the issues wound up coming up that didn't allow us to take it any further & it ended when it did. But, it was still quite a quite a magical experience.

AJ: There's a little history on you guys, if one of you could fill me in, about bringing your demo to to Greenberg & Greenwood.

ANTHONY: Well, Eric had a 4 track in his house & we would record basically acoustic guitars, vocals & some effects to fill in where the percussion was lacking. Here we are in the days of the cassette. I remember them because they were these dark clear looking cassettes like Coke bottle color. But, when we presented it to Green Machine Productions they wouldn't just take it. That was the whole thing. We gave them these 4 songs & said this is what we are on our own without 24 track, digital or even the big analog tapes. Sure, you pay them by the hour & you know they want to put their name on something. They don't want to get frustrated in the middle of the project, that it's going to be something that's not going to be completed. They don't want complete amateurs that they have to hand hold. When we gave it to them they were like, 'Sure we'll record your album.' That's where we got the product that we got. I mean, you know you could always say that you have great art, but yet you have to get let every pinball hit every bumper appropriately to get the right score.

ERIC: Right.

AJ: Let's let's talk about that for a second, since I have here with me 2 songwriters & I know you both probably have different approaches to songwriting & composing. I want to ask both of you what's your approach to
writing & maybe how coming together, you know, affected that or didn't or whatever.

ANTHONY: Well, I'm a composer second & a songwriter 1st, so what happens to me is I get the poem & the vocal patterns, etc. So, a lot of the stuff that I would approach to my current band CLOSENUF, as well as BLACKWOOD & FOTI, or even with my other songwriting partners over the years, I would sing the song & find the progression behind it. But, the other thing about Eric was that he would come up with chord progressions & instrumental pieces that it was my job to to write a vocal pattern on top of. That was where I got the more well-roundedness of being able to hit it from both angles.

ERIC: I think too, I came from a more progressive background. As Anthony said, I'm more of a MARLLION & PINK FLOYD kind of influence. I come from like the deep dark recesses of music. I like the real intense stuff. Anthony is more from the inspirational side, things like Billy Joel & John Denver. Even though we always had like plenty of middle ground we could share, like Dan Fogelberg who we both believe truly is one of the greatest musicians on earth, I think one of the great things is that Anthony ... I was so dark that Anthony would bring me up. At the same time Anthony was bright & I would bring him down a little bit to my end. What would happen, I think, is that between the 2 of us we were able to kind of create this middle ground that both the him & I could meet at. He kind of needed me to bring him down & I needed him to bring me kind of up. That kinda helped a lot in terms of how the songwriting went. I think that's why some of the songs were so was so different from anything that either of us would have normally written without each other at the time.

ANTHONY: Right, right. It's funny, because Blackwood is a stage name & it means darkness & Foti actually is Italian for brightness. It was kind of funny, because when we made the CD itself we cut the CD in half & had it half black & half white in its design. I think it was so great & I'd show it to a friend of mine & be told the CD looks like one of those black & white cookies you get at the Italian bakery. Yes, I have a thousand black & white cookies in my basement.

AJ: I know together you formed Wreckord Records & Anthony now keeps it going. Can you tell me about the formation of that &, obviously, some of the background to this business?

ANTHONY: It was actually Eric's idea that we needed the label. I happened to know a nice attorney who cut us a nice deal. We needed a name. It was funny, because we made it Wreckords Records, but the 1st word is spelled like a train wreck. The actual symbol is a W, which is actually a record that's broke it in half. When you put the 2 halves next to each other it makes the arcs of the W. We ran it together & everything was 50/50. When we went our separate ways I continued the corp. Eric's publishing for the few numbers we did are still owned by the corp. It's all on the books. You need that stuff on the books. That's the fair & equitable way to be. Even with a couple of other songwriting partners that I have. I can't find them all the time, but when they have money owed it's been set aside for when it can be claimed. You have to think of it that way. The other idea is, & we know this because here we are men & not little kids, our music is primarily for & with respect for white people pretty much 35 to 55 with with a more male oriented audience. The people who look for 38 SPECIAL & LYNYRD SKYNYRD, who come around & see all the reunion tours. You can't say we're gonna sell out, you know, a 1000 seating arenas every night & all that type of stuff, but here we are with a bunch of people who still buy CDs & don't download. Who have disposable income. The idea is that I would want an investor, an angel, like a Broadway play, to put up the money to forward CLOSENUF &show the world what we are. If we make it, it's all profit. If we lose we're a tax write-off. But, that what you're looking. You're looking for that angel to invest in you. I mean, look at "The Macarena." That is the highest selling single on the earth. The funny thing is, when they saw those 2 65 yr old Spanish men on TV people were taken aback, but it didn't take it away from being the highest single ever sold on the earth. So the thing is, here we are mature gentlemen & as long as the music is on the radio, that they would turn around & say 'Okay, now let's see what these guys look like.' When they finally see what they look like & they see they're men, they're not boys, but the song is still awesome. That's where the industry has gone totally awry. Bands like MOUNTAIN & JETHRO TULL, I don't know if they could make it these days.

ERIC: No, they wouldn't.

ANTHONY: It's not the music, its because they're not pretty boys.

AJ: It's all visual.

ANTHONY: Right, I mean you see a beautiful sculpture in the middle of a park & you see an 80 yr old man come out of his basement who made this thing & you would still say 'My god, that's a beautiful statue.' You don't turn around & look at the man who's lived his entire life who isn't a sex symbol & say to yourself that that statue is now ugly. No. That high art is still high art & music has to go back to that. That's why we're here. That's why I'm still here. It's the album & then it's the reproduction of the album in a live show that has to be awesome.

AJ: Absolutely.

ANTHONY: Sex, drugs & rock'n' roll, I mean, maybe the subject matter of the songs, etc., I mean, bottom line is it's rock'n'roll. There's nothing else occurring on that stage except there's theatrics, but there's music. Audio & visual of music.

AJ: It's actually a very simple equation on one level. Before we talk anymore I have to thank Eric. I have to thank you for calling up.

ERIC: No problem.

AJ: We were talking over the past week. This was totally unexpected. I know how busy you are. Can you reveal openly what movie you're working on? If you can't, it's okay.

ERIC: I can. Right now I'm working on a quirky movie called Violet & Daisy.

AJ: Whose in it?

ERIC: It stars James Gandolfini from The Sopranos on TV. He's the main actor in it. I just finished doing Boardwalk Empire.

AJ: I can't thank you enough for being a part of this. Having both of you guys here is a treat given your respective schedules. I want to talk about another song that you both had a hand in recording & creating. This got re-recorded by CLOSENUF, but because I have you with us, Eric, I want to look at the version you to do. I'm talking about "In The Eyes Of The Rose." Anthony, I know this has some special things related to it.

ANTHONY: This is a song about the thoughts of a 16th century philosopher who said that a rose sees a gardener as an immortal creature. The thing is he's just a man. The idea is that since the rose is misrepresenting the gardener, in the song the man in the relationship who's symbolizing the rose as their love is in a misrepresented relationship. The funny thing is, we did this live at Wagner College on a great lawn as a concert in the park for some politicians. Everybody in the audience was flabbergasted, because it was this heart-wrenching ballad. Well, we ran out of money for the album. My father came up & said he'd put up the money & he became the co-producer. Frederick D. Foti, my father. We recorded it with John Abbott, who was with Dionne Warwick, & Steve Jerome, who actually just passed away a couple of months ago. John Abbott died a few years ago. Jerome has done everything from SIMON & GARFUNKEL to Gloria Gaynor, Neil Diamond, everybody. They recorded this song for us. It was a power ballad & it became our 1st nationally played single. It's still something that's in my repertoire all the time. I've done festivals all over NYC & people will request the song. So, it's something very special.

AJ: Who played what on that song?

ANTHONY: No actual special guest stars. "In The Eyes Of The Rose" is a capture of the ensemble that was the BLACKWOOD & FOTI live band. I was lead vocals & Eric was doing acoustic guitar. It was actually the live band that performed the song everywhere around New England. This was the band which we captured live in the studio.

ERIC: I think one thing should be noted, too. Anthony pushed this song quite a bit. I'll tell you, this song just exploded down south. This got on every radio station from Texas to Atlanta. I mean, they were playing this thing probably 8 or 9 times a day. We were on the Gavin report for most played song. We actually were up there with Eric Clapton for most played song down in Atlanta. It was also El Paso, too. There were 2 radio stations trying to outdo each other for who could play this song the most times in a day, it seemed like. So, this song really got huge. It turned into a monster fast, faster than we ever expected it to.

AJ: Excellent. I think this song compared to "At Night" creates a nice contrast showing 2 sides to the BLACKWOOD & FOTI sound. I think it really shows the breadth of your repertoire & what you were about.

ANTHONY: Thank you.

ERIC: Thank you. Speaking of "At Last". The one thing I can say about Al Pitrelli was that not only was he brilliant, but he was just effortless. I remember with " The Old Man", which has a 2 minute guitar solo outro on it, we recorded it once. He fiddled around on his guitar. The 2nd time around he laid down the track. He'd only heard the song once & he fiddled around on his guitar while it was playing. He said "Alight, let's just give it a shot." Greenberg hit record & Pitrelli put that lead as it sounds. We were sitting there with out mouths open. We could not believe how incredible a guitarist he was, that he was able to come out with something that amazing on the 1st take without ever having heard the song but once. He was just brilliant. Pitrelli looked at us & said "I think I've got it. We can do it over." We're like 'You're not doing it over! That was it. That was the track. You can't get better than what you just did.' We told him to leave it alone as it was absolutely perfect. He was such just a professional. So, that being said, Anthony, thanks for keeping it alive.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it. Very very nice talking to you again.

ERIC: Thank you, take care.

AJ: Eric, thank you so much.

ERIC: Thank you, Aaron.

AJ: That was a surprise for all of us.

ANTHONY: Absolutely.

AJ: I want to make sure we touch on CLOSENUF before we end our talk. You've been fronting the group for quite a while now & put out a couple albums & gotten some awards. Let's talk about what you've done & what you're doing with CLOSENUF.

ANTHONY: CLOSENUF was actually originally a Adam Vicelich & myself, 2 singer/songwriters. We met up with a bunch of people answering ads & we all were going to meet on Sept 12th, 2001 & on Sept 11th, 2001, we all know what happened. So we're waiting at the diner & we're saying to ourselves, 'I don't know if the bass player & the guitarist & a drummer are going to show up.' Well, little by little everybody showed up in a lobby. We we spoke about how it touched us & we sat down & we spoke about what we wanted to do. We explained what the project was & we brought our repertoires together & our experiences. It was funny, because we needed a name & every time we would do a song Adam would go 'Yeah, close enough.' Then we'd play another song. We'd finished the song, boom big triumphant ending & he'd go 'Close enough.' We would move on to the next one & it stuck. So, we said that was great from a marketing point of view. I mean, closenuf to musical perfection, closenuf to your heart, closenuf to the radio, closenuf, to television. We had "Music Man" very very much on the forefront with BLACKWOOD & FOTI, a Billboard songwriting contest award winning work that is an homage to the music industry. It's just a lot of fun. It's my 60's influence at its best. We did the new version of it with CLOSENUF where every member of the band is playing every note as opposed to guest stars. I did have a version produced by Steve Jerome & John Abbott with Screamin' Steve Barlotta from Gary U.S. Bonds doing the sax work. When we did a version that was more rocking we actually had BLUE OYSTER CULT's soundman be our producer for these 2 albums. He took the song to a major level. We released it to a promoter in Rhode Island & the guy got us to the Grammy ballot for Best Musical Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist. This started the 1st of many times up on the ballot for CLOSENUF.

AJ: What is going on with the band right now?

ANTHONY: I have a new line-up. I go through different keyboardists & guitarists. I plan to revamp the live show for 2011 getting that 60's/70's rock vibe out there. But, I keep promoting. I'm putting some old music videos up on youtube. We always stay in it from a promotional point of view even when we're not actively performing.

AJ: The 1st time I heard the 1st CLOSENUF album it just blew my mind. There's just some excellent songs on that album. Great songwriting & great music. That being said, I guess we're ... closenuf to the ending of this interview? I just want to ask, you've been doing music for how many years?

ANTHONY: 25.

AJ: You've put out 4 albums. You've done more shows than we can count.

ANTHONY: It's been a wild ride. It started when I was in college.

AJ: Just a punk kid with big dreams?

ANTHONY: It was actually, believe it or not, in 1977 when I heard Billy Joel's "The Stranger." I started singing it in the living room. It was amazing because I could sing just like him. I could sing the album from start to finish. I went to college for music. I have a music concentration from P.A.C.E. University in NYC. One of my professors called me in after one of the shows. I was singing American Bandstand, Bill Haley & all that. I was sat down & I thought I was in trouble, but she said, 'You got it, but what you have to do is you have to find your voice & you have to write. Write like a mad man.' That summer I just started writing songs. I picked some partners of mine to work on the progressions behind me & then you get addicted. You get addicted as an artist. It's just something that becomes inside of you that you have to be, you know. What it is, when you find out you're an artist it's like finding out you're gay. What I mean by that is that is you feel 'Okay, I'm unique. I may not be of the majority. I may get persecuted for who I am, but I'm gonna be the best person I am & I'm going to live my life honestly.' When you're an artist it is the way God made you. You are creative. You are overly emotional to the average aspect of things. You're more observant. You draw from different sources. You feel muses carried through you & you have to be who you are. But, of course, getting that little boost in the behind speech of 'you got what it takes, go for it, you're blessed,' that's something that changes every artists life.

AJ: Anthony, we're at the end. You & I have talked for the last hour. We've talk on e-mail & on the phone. It's always a pleasure.

ANTHONY: You, too, man.

AJ: I enjoy conversing with you because you really bring out the intellectual side of music & also the emotional side. It's not just good time & fun talk. You really bring out the seriousness of the music business, yet underneath all that you say there is this sense that you love what you do. It's not been your full time job & you're not a millionaire, but it doesn't matter because you love what you do. That is the feeling so obvious in what you say.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it.

AJ: This is the first interview I've done, so you're inaugurating something for me. It was obvious who was going to be my 1st guest, too.

ANTHONY: It's been an honor. You're quite thorough & you made it as painless as possible. Interviews can sometimes get a little hairy.

"She Was The Japanese Devil" An Interview With DAVE CRIGGER of FOGHAT, THE WORLD XXI

2018-11-10T12:00:00.001-08:00

May 2018 (e-mail)

You likely haven't heard of rock bassist Dave Crigger, though he's considered an innovator of the slap & tap bass style which fused the famed R&B playing technique with the hard rock repertoire. His resume has included playing & touring with Wild Horses, The World XXI, progressive instrumental guitarist Michael Fath & the unsigned Broken Silence with Megadeth guitarist Jeff Young. He also toured with Foghat until 1993, when the original line-up would reunite for the 1st time since 1975. Foghat is today primarily known for their hit "Slow Ride", though at the time of their 1971 formation they were one of the few rock bands that used an electric slide guitar, something that was only found in blues bands. Crigger toured alongside founding member / drummer Roger Earl, long-term guitarist Erik Cartwright & vocalist Billy Davis, though he never recorded with the band. Today he performs locally in Virginia, while working as an electrician & raising his family.

For some years I've been working on /off on the 1st bio of the one-off 1996 industrial metal trio Vertex. Vertex is not so much known for its one CD or only single "One Like A Son", falling forgotten during grunge's musical make-over, but because it's line-up included famed vocalist Stephen Pearcy of Ratt & hot guitarist Al Pitrelli of numerous bands including Megadeth, Asia, Alice Cooper & Trans-Siberian Orchestra. The band was formed to boost the career of Japanese drummer Hiro Kuritani, though neither the band nor Hiro would go on to bigger things. It would be the only industrial metal outing for any member, thus having a unique place in their discographies. I've been a fan of Pitrelli for years & wanted to know more about this under-appreciated musical moment, something that got only a paragraph in Pearcy's autobio. Before Vertex Kuritani was in the prog-metal band The World XXI, named after the tarot card, & it was while with this band that he met Pearcy. In my research I listened to Pearcy's post-Ratt & pre-Vertex bands Arcade & Vicious Delite & hunted up The World XXI. Before ordering the album from Japan I found some youtube videos put up by Crigger, which led to finding him on facebook on a night when he was available to chat. This is an all too short interview, but we got too busy to continue with it. The fact I also briefly confused him with drummer David Crigger, known for playing with Burt Bacharach, likely didn't help.

* * *

DAVE: I will give you a brief history of THE WORLD XXI. I was in the band FOGHAT when I got the call in 1993 from Hiro & [guitarist] Mac's [Mizunuma] management to join their project. I flew to LA to meet & jam. Jean Violet, the singer, fly from NY to audition. We jammed about an hour & made plans to write songs in Japan. Jean & I went to Japan for about 6 months & rehearsed 15 or 16 songs that were mostly written by Mac & Hiro. We applied our parts & came out with what you hear [on our CD]. The idea was to have 2 Americans & 2 Japanese just killing some great prog-rock songs. We were put on a salary & worked full time at this project. Jean & I lived in a very small apt & hung together because we didn't know anyone.

AJ: When did you record the CD?

DAVE: We then went back to LA & recorded at American Studios [one of the 1st independent recording studios in California] with Bill Cooper. Everything was going great so far. After the CD was complete we did about 7 or 8 shows in Japan. We did some shows with BLUE MURDER. After those shows things were falling apart. Here's the real inside story. Everything the Japanese management company did was wrong. We were not getting air play. We were not getting paid. The first pressing of the CD didn't list Fender, Ibanez, Hipshot, SIT Strings or Ampeg on the credits, which I had endorsement contracts with. I was the only one established & already had 6 or 7 CD's out. These endorsements were required to be listed on anything I recorded. We then went home for a short break, but I wasn't getting paid, so I didn't go back. Jean did go back, but only for a short while. This is when Hiro joined with Stephen Pearcy.

AJ: What was it like working with Hiro?

DAVE: Hiro spoke a little English & Mac spoke no English. We had a translator when needed. Our manager was a lady named Yasumi. She was the Japanese Devil. Hiro & her were a pair. I mean, she was there for Hiro. Anything Hiro said she would do. Hiro had the least experience as a professional & that's why there were so many mistakes.

AJ: What did you & Jean do after the band was over?

DAVE: Jean went back to NY & started his LED ZEPPELIN tribute band [imitating Robert Plant in KASHMIR: THE ULTIMATE LED ZEPPELIN TRIBUTE]. I came back to VA & started my family with Rika. This is the best part. While we were rehearsing in Japan I needed money because they weren't paying us. I went to the studio & did session work for $300 a song. Rika was one of the singers that I did sessions for. She was a gorgeous Japanese teen idol that became a awesome singer. When I saw her after my session I fell in love . We now have 3 kids.

AJ: How do you feel about the music you made with Hiro & co.?

DAVE: I loved the band. I think the songs were just great. We would have been huge if the manager & Hiro hadn't controlled everything.

AJ: What's your music background?

DAVE: I started playing bass in high school. I was featured in Guitar Player mag in the Spotlight section. That's when I moved to LA. I was playing Sunset Strip with MOTLEY CRUE, RATT, WARRANT, POISON & all the '80's bands just before they all broke out. I was in a band called BROKEN SILENCE with [guitarist] Jeff Young of MEGADETH & one of the best singers in the world Mark Delpapa. We were managed by Barry Levine of KISS. But, just like most bands, things fall apart just as we were being signed. I came back home to VA 2 yrs later & started playing with another local hero [progressive rock guitarist] Michael Fath. We recorded & toured for 6 CD's as a 3 piece fusion instrumental band. We toured with several rock instrumental bands like Joe Satriani, Tony McAlpine, Eric Johnson & more. During this time I accepted some auditions with great bands like George Lynch, Lita Ford, [German metal band] KINGDOM COME & even METALLICA when Cliff Burton died. I didn't go for some of them because I was always touring in my own band. I did accept one band called WILD HORSES, a new heavy soulful band managed by Keith Olsen of DOKKEN. I was only in L.A. a couple weeks to record. That band just came to late. Grunge started getting popular & the money was tight. I went back home & recorded more with Fath.

AJ: When did you join FOGHAT?

DAVE: A couple years later I joined FOGHAT. I toured with them for 4 yrs & that's when THE WORLD XXI came about.

AJ: Dave, you have blown me away with your generosity of information. It's completely unexpected.

DAVE: Anytime & thanks for writing. I like reminiscing about the old days. Don't get me wrong on the negativity. I really did enjoy the few years with Hiro & Mac, but the business side crushed us all. I still talk to Jean about once or twice a month. He's attempting to sue the record company now, trying to get the money they didn't pay us. I let the dog lie comfortably, I wasn't doing it for the money.

"It Would Have A Slant of Muddy Waters & Motorhead In It" An Interview With GUYS WITH WIVES

2018-10-21T10:40:00.003-07:00

Feb 2012 (skype)

Guys With Wives, out of Manitoba, Canada, is a hard driving trio that bridges hard rock & blues in a unique mix with great lyrics. While this could be said about many bands, Guys With Wives truly does create a unique musical melting pot that at times rips gutsy electric blues & other times takes a page from the metal template, but the result is a cohesive whole that doesn't fall into the common faults of sounding piecemeal or cliched or lacking melody. It might be because the Guys are all lifelong veterans of the Canadian music scene & playing an array of genres. In this setting they have a truly collaborative creation process that brings all the influences seamlessly together. They have one full length album & perform periodically in Canada. Two of the members are also part of the outlaw country/southern rock band After All These Years, produced by the third Guy, who have released numerous CDs & can also be seen performing in Canada. Albums by both bands can be found via CD Baby. Guys With Wives features Len Milne on guitars, Travis Haugen on vocals & bass, & Todd Lesage on drums & vocals, with the later 2 Guys in After All These Years.

I discovered Guys With Wives via their bassist, Travis Haugen, who shared the group's music with me on a music site during the time I was blogging & actively seeking out independently released music. I immediately liked what I heard & we struck up a friendship that would include sharing on both music & life over the years. He was likely one of the most faithful listeners of my podcast, chiming in with an e-mail after many episodes, & got to know my conversational manner better than I did. We lost contact for some years as I moved & life for me changed, but as of the posting of this blog had reconnected. In hunting him up, 6 yrs after this interview with all 3 members, I discovered Guys With Wives continues to sporadically perform, while the sister country band also continues. Travis also finally published his interactive musical novel series - which I had remember him outlining to me years past - & can be found in the link above. While Bedside Studios, the home of Guys With Wives, continues a prosperous business in an age when home recording has changed the recording game.

* * *

TRAVIS: This should be interesting.

AJ: So, Travis knows my show backwards & forwards. He knows the way I work better than I do. Isn't that true?

TRAVIS: Pretty much.

AJ: He's even pointed out to me my quirks & way of talking. Now he gets to see me [via skype] & be a part of a interview after listening to so many hours of them. I don't do 20 questions. I'm interested in having a conversation with a group of guys whose music I like & who I think other people will like. That's it.

TODD: Cool. Sounds good.

AJ: This is the 2nd time I've ever done an interview where I'm looking at someone. It helps a lot. As I was telling Travis, when I do an interview with a band they're moving the cell phone around to each other & I never know who is about to talk. Now I get to see you guys! I did this once with John Wetton & he was home.

TRAVIS: That was cool. The piano tuner just shows up in the middle of the interview.

AJ: Let's start from the beginning. GUYS WITH WIVES. Where's the wives?

TRAVIS: Good question.

LEN: They're at home right now. This is the man cave we're at.

TRAVIS: This is Bedside Studios. You should see this place. It's a great studio. That's actually how we got together was through Bedside. What happened is my son-in-law's father had this tape of his father playing piano back in 1960 in England. It was on a 2 track & he wanted it converted to something he could listen to & nobody had a machine that could play it over here. So, I got Lenny's number from a local music shop. They said phone him & he'll have something & sure enough he did. It turned out he was just like a 5 min straight line walk from my place. So, I go over there & right away we just kind of hit it off.

LEN: Then he introduced me to a bunch of his songs that he wanted to have recorded & I said I've got a drummer that I know that we can hire. Brought him down. Todd, at this point, I'd just re-met again, because he'd just came back from Vancouver I think about 2 years before we actually got going.

TODD: About that, yeah.

LEN: I knew he was in town & I worked with him in the past. We've tried to start bands in the past, but we could never find a singer. So, I gave Todd a call. We put a session together & we just started smashing out stuff that was like really raw blues rock kind of stuff. After the 1st session we pretty much said we should make this into a band.

TRAVIS: Actually, it was after we did the 1st song we just kinda looked at each other & went 'This is a band." It was just one of those things. Todd has another band called AFTER ALL THESE YEARS. It started out I was gonna play on some of their material & he was gonna play our material. He just asked me to join the band. Both bands came together just like that from that one
chance meeting of me taking this tape over.

LEN: Yeah, Todd was looking for a bass player. They were going through some member changes & I said "You might as well just call Travis, cause he can do back-up vocals for you & play bass at the same time."

TRAVIS: But, Bedside & Len were the catalyst. That's where it all started. Like it was just like .... I mean, it was like I'd just known the guy for 2 minutes. The studio then was in a basement in his house. I just walked in & I was like home & we just hit it off.

AJ: Len, can you tell me a little bit about your studio, the type of bands you work with or the projects?

LEN: Anything you can think of. Country, lots of roots, lots of blues, hardcore, death metal, punk.

TRAVIS: BLACK VIOLIN.

LEN: Yeah, BLACK VIOLIN has been here, if you've heard of them. They're from the States.

TRAVIS: They're from NY, I think.

LEN: We've had the WEBER BROTHERS. They're from around where you're from, Maine.

AJ: Oh, you know about me. You've been briefed.

LEN: People have traveled quite far to work here.

AJ: How long have you had the studio?

LEN: I've been running a studio for 25 yrs. Not necessarily in the same location.

AJ: Now you just mentioned all these different bands. Travis, you have told me about the 3 of you. You guys all come from very different backgrounds & you all like different music. Would you mind commenting on how all that comes together to create GUYS WITH WIVES?

TRAVIS: I have no idea. It just happened. It's just like ... we just click, you know. Todd & I as a rhythm section its like we played together from the 1st note, like we'd played together for years.

LEN: I think the main foundation, from what I can gather, would be blues. We all understand how blues works & then everything kinda just branches off of there.

TODD: We've all been musicians for a long time. I think we've all played different kinds of styles of music, so to do something that's more of a hardcore rock or a blues thing is fairly easy for us to do because we've created so many different styles with other people.

AJ: How's the writing work? Who writes what?

LEN: It's a variation. I write. Travis writes. We all write, actually. I come up with guitar riffs. Hand them off to Travis. He'll come up with lyrics. Travis is mainly the lyrics. Travis will come up with music & give it to me & I'll just make it heavier than he's ever imagined.

TRAVIS: Like, if I bring a song ...

LEN: He brings it to me & it sounds like its the DOOBIE BROTHERS. After I'm done with it, it sounds like it sounds. It sounds really ripping & tearing.

TRAVIS: Like that little thing on the album that says 'Todd is the power, Travis is the melody & Len is the rock'n'roll', well, that pretty much wraps it up. Todd has this tremendous feel & power in his drumming. I'm the melody guy, but if I'm left alone I'll end up sounding like Neil Sedaka. So, these guys got to kick me in the ass & say 'come on, loosen up & scream a little bit, you know.'

TODD: We can't leave him alone too often.

AJ: I'm reading here on the album. Len, you're "all sorts of guitars &all sorts of insanity." Todd is "inspiration & transportation." And, Travis is "hyperactivity."

TODD: Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

AJ: So, we've got Mr. Energy, Mr. Taxi & Mr. Crazy.

TRAVIS: That's us.

LEN: Running a studio you've got to be crazy.

TRAVIS: Let's face it, being in the music industry you've got to be crazy, right?

AJ: Let's talk about that a little bit. Can each of you tell me a little bit about your backgrounds before coming to GUYS WITH WIVES?

TODD: I started out in cover bands I guess about 20 years ago. Moved to Vancouver in 1994. Joined an original band called OPIUM UNDERGROUND. We toured across Canada & the States for awhile. Then I got tired of that whole scene & moved back here. Then I started just doing a bunch of original stuff with a bunch of different people & this is what came out of it.

AJ: What do you mean tired of that whole scene, particularly?

TODD: Just that whole grunge kinda rock scene started to die out there. There wasn't a lot of touring availability anymore that made it feasible for us to do. The money got so shitty that it was like, you know, we just had to look at different venues & ways to get our music out there with the internet & everything. We all kinda shut it down & took a different avenue.

AJ: Maybe Travis has told you that I used to live in Vancouver for about 4 or 5 months. I grew up in Bellingham, Washington just over the border. I understand what you say. I was in high school during the grunge thing. I know that well & it changed a lot. If you didn't fit the mold you got lost & then when it ended everyone was lost.

TODD: The whole scene just got too saturated. At that point everything just sorta died out & it was just time to move on & do something different.

AJ: Travis, what about you? What's your background?

TRAVIS: I'm the oldest guy. I'll be 58 this year. I went on the road when I was 14. I absolutely lived on the road. I finished my schooling through correspondence & stuff. I lived on the road until I was about 30. I played. That's it. It was either like original bands or bands like the ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND where you could take a song & jam on it. I came out of that background more than anything. We did some cover stuff & I've been in a few cover bands, but I've never been big on that. I've always liked the original scene. Music was it. Even after I was 30 & got married & we lived in Calgary I worked during the day, but I played constantly, all the time. Then when I moved out to Winnipeg I didn't play for about 5 yrs. I guess I didn't meet the right people.
Now at Bedside everything started again. It just took took off from there again.

AJ: Travis, you & I had a nice little conversation months ago, I want to mention briefly, that was about your singing. That is the interview I did with former RAINBOW vocalist Graham Bonnet. Remember that?

TRAVIS: I remember that. That just blew me away that interview. I didn't even know that song ["Only One Woman"] by the MARBLES was him from way back that he did with the BEE GEES producing. That was the first song I learned to sing.

AJ: I had told you that I thought your vocals sounded a lot like Graham, not knowing you knew the MARBLES.

TRAVIS: Yeah, I guess, maybe not on purpose. That's just the way my voice is, but I was influenced by his singing a lot. Like I said about that interview, I didn't know all these years that he was the singer of that song. I listened to him a lot when he was with RAINBOW & then his solo projects. I've always really loved his singing.

AJ: I'm playing the song during the show & you wrote me afterwards saying you knew that song but didn't know who you were listening to for an hour. Let's go to Len. Tell me about your background.

LEN: I've done mainly the studio kinda work for the last 20 yrs. I moved back to Winnipeg from a lot of the small towns I used to live in Manitoba. My goal was to either get into a band & tour across Canada or, at that point, it was in my mind to start a studio & become the 5th member or 6th member of every band I could possibly be as a producer. It just kept going as that. I listened to a lot of the recordings that were done in this city at the time. I wasn't really fond of the production. They were too over-produced, kinda reverby, kinda pop-ish. There wasn't anything that sounded raw, bluesy or AC/DC, you know, stuff that is really kind of powerful & raunchy. I didn't hear that in this city. I couldn't imagine myself spending any kind of money in the studios in this city, so I started my own. I learned it & failed miserably on lots of recordings & eventually got to the point where people were paying me decent money & I'm still doing it now. I've got awards to say that somewhere along the line I got good at it. But, as far as the playing aspect, it wasn't anything out there that really interested me until I met these guys. Like I said, me & Todd have tried stuff in the past. I've tried this many yrs, like 10 yrs running, trying to get an original act together, but we can never find a singer. Probably in the last 7 yrs I just gave up on the idea of playing, then all of a sudden Travis came over & things just came into place.

TRAVIS: Getting back to what you said about the writing. We split the writing 3 ways, because it does doesn't matter where the ideas come from for the song, it's what it turns out to be as a result of everybody's input into it.

LEN: We all pick at it. Like it doesn't matter who comes up with the song, it'll all kinda go through the GUYS WITH WIVES mill & come out whatever it is.

AJ: Now you guys gig fairly frequently, right?

TRAVIS: Not so much with GUYS WITH WIVES. We do gig, but we do a lot with AFTER ALL THESE YEARS.

AJ: Okay. I want to talk about that. Todd, tell me about your project AFTER ALL THESE YEARS.

TODD: I started the band with my bro about 10 yrs ago, I guess. It's more outlaw country kinda stuff.

AJ: I've got your latest CD.

TODD: We've put out 4 albums so far. We gig quite a bit around Manitoba mostly. Festivals & stuff like that. We've been doing that for quite awhile now. It seems to work for us. I'd never played any kind of country before, so I wanted to do something different & write some different songs & see where we could go with that, you know?

AJ: It's your brother, another guitar player, plus Travis. I know, Len, you contributed guitar tracks to the album.

TODD: My brother actually plays drums in that band & I play guitar & sing.

LEN: I'm not a part of the band itself, but I've produced a couple albums & some recording. I can give you a better representation or maybe a truer representation of that band. I remember meeting Todd drinking once & coming up with an analogy of why the band exists. He got tired of not making any money with all the hard core & metal bands he was in. He was jokingly saying that 'You know, I want to fucking start my own country band & make more money than all the rest of you fuckers.' That's basically how it came out. So, he started writing country songs & started making money at it, you know, more so than he has in most of the metal bands he's ever been in.

TRAVIS: The funny thing about it is the country songs he writes are like rootsy country songs. They're really good. It's the old style. Southern country. Like the real stuff like Johnny Cash & Merle Haggard.

TODD: Any kind of the new stuff I don't like at all.

LEN: It's got a LYNYRD SKYNYRD slant to it, too.

TODD: I'm kinda drawn more to that kind of stuff when I'm writing.

TRAVIS: None of this drug store cowboy stuff.

AJ: Todd, I have your Kicking Up Dirt album. I've written to you, Travis, that it sounded to me like it was coming right out Nashville. I hate to use this phrase, but I think you'll understand what I mean. It has this very American country down home sound.

TRAVIS: Southern. You bet.

TODD: I've traveled down there a few times to Memphis & places & played down there. I really liked the whole underground scene there, so that's kinda what I'm into doing &trying to get that feel. The stuff that's not getting the massive airplay, you know what I mean?

TRAVIS: We are from southern Manitoba after all!

AJ: You're almost there.

TRAVIS: What's the difference?

TODD: We're only like 26 hrs from Nashville.

AJ: You're like neighbors.

TODD: Exactly.

AJ: I remember listening to the album for the 1st time & my thought was that I was listening to this Canadian band sing about the down home South. It was really like this odd juxtaposition for me. I was expecting something more related to where you are living. Of course, Neil Young & THE BAND are both southern sounding & from your side of the border. But, its got a very rootsy Nashville sound, which surprised me.

TODD: That's what we like to go for & that's what we like to play.

TRAVIS: It's a fun band. It's pretty crazy to see us live, too.

AJ: How is that moving back & forth from a bluesy hard rock band to country rock?

TODD: Pretty easy.

LEN: Basically switching from major to minor.

TODD: Pretty much.

LEN: We all understand ... like I could easily jump into this band & start playing with them also. I would just terrorize the guitar in more of a country style as opposed to a blues style. We are touching on that in some future songs, actually. GUYS WITH WIVES does have a country song that is coming up in the works.

TRAVIS: It's pretty screwed up country.

AJ: Are either you, Travis or Len, in any other bands aside from AFTER ALL THESE YEARS?

LEN: I'm in a band called ANUSPHERE.

AJ: Did you just say what I think you just said?

LEN: That's right. It's more of a grungy BLACK SABBATH kind of sounding thing. Actually, one of the members from the WEBER BROTHERS, the drummer, is playing in that band, because he's now living in Winnipeg. Like SABBATH tuned down to D. Sloppy, grindy metal. Not fast metal, but slow. Some of it gets fast, but most of it is on that SABBATH kind of grind.

AJ: Travis, are you just in the 2 bands?

LEN: Todd & I also play with this other fellow in town. It's called OUT FROM THE SHADOWS, which is kind of a 3 piece power rock kinda thing. It's kind of an ALICE IN CHAINS tribute & then some original stuff that the guitar player in that band writes. It's mostly a cover band.

AJ: Let's go back to what was briefly mentioned: new music with GUYS WITH WIVES. Tell me about the latest stuff the 3 of you are working on.

LEN: We were actually doing some vocals earlier tonight for a secondary song. We'll probably get back to that later this evening or later on this week to finish that up. Just finished the solos for a song called "Make Ya." It's got more of that straight-up blues kind of sound. The other song that we're working on tonight it's a slant of a few different things. It's got a FOO FIGHTERS kind of band sound, but the storytelling is a little bit different than that.

TRAVIS: Weird lyrics. It's actually a story about .... I knew this guy from Thunder Bay who was a pilot, a bush pilot. He had a friend that ... this happened a long time ago. This guy was older than me & is dead now. His friend was coming in to land a single engine plane & sometimes its so calm on the lakes that you can't tell where the water begins & the sky ends. He's coming in for landing. This was way up north. Apparently, he came in with the pontoons too steep & it flipped the plane over on its back. He started slowly sinking. When they found him he'd written a note that he'd left in this waterproof case. He went insane. It was like 17 minutes he was still alive. When they found him. He was 26 yrs & his hair & beard had gone completely white from fear. Nice cheery little song!

AJ: I have to ask, Travis, you've opened the door. So, what inspires you as a songwriter?

TRAVIS: Whatever happens to be on ... I don't know. Mostly the lyrics just start. It's not like I think I'll write a song. With me, anyways, all of a sudden it's just there. I'm even usually playing anything when it comes. I might be riding my bike. The melody & everything just seems to plop into my head. Like the basic outline anyway, like the melody & lyrics & enough of it. Then I'll run home & kinda home & put down a demo & send it to these 2 guys.

LEN: I'll take it apart & then put it back together for him.

TODD: Mostly death & darkness for Travis, I think.

LEN: Yeah.

AJ: You're like, 'oh boy, here's another one.' If someone asks all 3 of you to describe the music of GUYS WITH WIVES what do you say?

LEN: It would run the course of anything from ... it would have a slant of Muddy Waters in it. It would have a slant of MOTORHEAD in it & it would also have a slant of ALICE IN CHAINS & almost anything in between. It's really got a lot of blues roots, but there's a lot of metal in there also. It's grimy. I don't know. It's like grimy blues, basically. We'll break it away from the blues, like there's stuff that we do that's in drop D tuning. I started playing drop D when KING'S X was around, if you remember them.

AJ: I remember them.

LEN: We sadly lost their drummer like last week. I used to listen to them. I've seen them. I got into drop D tuning & playing & writing songs like that when they were around. It's been for me an influence. At the same time, I've dealt with lots of death metal & hardcore & things in the studio that I've seen. I can pick up the guitar & play pretty much the songs that they're playing while I'm recording them. It's a good asset for me to understand what they're doing, so I can tell them that they need to approve this or tell somebody that you're playing this part. A lot of times you're under the microscope in the studio & a lot of people don't really understand that they're playing parts that are wrong. Once they get into the studio & they hear each other then you have to dissect it & put it back together again. So, I have to pick up a guitar or bass & learn their parts & explain to them that somebody is not jiving here. So, you've got to play the parts right. Somebody has either got to do it this way or do it that way. Make your choice.

TRAVIS: But, the thing with GUYS WITH WIVES everything just falls into place. We just bring a song & start playing it & there it is, you know. The thing about it is, I'm older than these guys. I kinda missed the grunge era, but I really liked ALICE IN CHAINS. I always loved that band. I love ZZ TOP. I listen to like the ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND & Paul Rodgers, STEELY DAN, the DOOBIE BROTHERS & that stuff like that. I like to get that type of melody in with the heaviness. Todd, his drumming just floors you. It has a real nice feel, but its got lots of power. Then Len plays the guitar ...

LEN: I grew up on a lot of melody. I listened to in my younger ages ... I started buying BEATLES albums when I was 8. Also listened to the BEACH BOYS & various bands of that nature that had a lots of melody in the singing. But, at the same I'd always be listening to LED ZEPPELIN or NAZARETH, MOTORHEAD, you know, the heaviest thing that would come out at the time. I'd always look for that. At the same time living at home there would always be Johnny Cash or Waylon Jennings or something like that playing in the background by my parents. So, I've been exposed to pretty much everything you can think of other than a lot of classical or jazz.

TRAVIS: I think that's one thing that common about all of us when we grew up. Like Cash, Haggard, George Jones, Tammy Wynette & all that stuff, that's what you heard, because that's what our parents listened to on the radio.

LEN: We all understand the country aspects & then we also all understand the blues, too. As far as blues goes, for me it was Johnny Winter most of the time who I liked to listen to. Lot of influence from him & a lot of influence from Frank Zappa. That's where the craziness comes from. Lots of straight-up weirdness just going on. I know that touches on jazz, but its not real jazz, to me anyway.

TRAVIS: Then B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Sonny Boy Williamson II & all that stuff, I used to listen to that when I was a kid, too. I don't know why. It just was there somehow. So, you just take all that, everything we all used to listen to as kids & we're just being kids again. That's what it is. We're having a ball playing this stuff, playing music.

AJ: I like that. Being kids again. That can be your new motto.

TRAVIS: You know, the whole thing about rock'n'roll is it really has always been down to the fun factor. Rock'n'roll was based on fun, right? The business has tried its best to squeeze that out & just jam it down our throats that we have to listen to certain things, but people keep looking for the fun. That's what they look for. That's what everybody still looks for in music - the fun.

AJ: Todd, don't be so quiet.

TODD: I'm just listening to Travis's analogies.

TRAVIS: He's going to slap me any time now.

AJ: I know, you hear this all the time.

TODD: Pretty much.

AJ: You're just the guy in the back, I know, doing your thing.

TODD: That's right.

AJ: Let me just go back to my question. Todd, how do you describe GUYS WITH WIVES?

TODD: I don't really try to describe it, actually, because I think there's so many different kinds of styles of music in there. If someone asks I'd rather just tell them to buy the CD & listen to it & leave me alone.

TRAVIS: Here's what it is. GUYS WITH WIVES is a band.

TODD: But, if you had to describe it as a style, its very hard for me to describe it. It's not blues. It's not rock. It's not heavy metal. It's all kinds of everything mixed in together, you know.

AJ: That's just as good as their answer.

TRAVIS: I guess you can't explain it. How can you explain ... I don't know. How can you explain yourself to people, right?

AJ: You know what I'm asking. Tell me about your band. Sell me what you do. I'm a punk polka band or I'm a black metal orchestra. We put music in a box & we package it up & sell it to people.

LEN: Just an outside slant from people I've worked with ... I know lots of the blues community & I know lots of the metal community in this city. Metal community says I play too bluesy. The blues community says I play too heavy. So, it's like right in the middle. You can really explain it too much more. It's really heavy nasty blues.

TODD: I don't really like to try to pick it apart & pick what kind of a band it is. I'd rather just have someone listen to it & go 'what do you think it is? What's your opinion?'

LEN: It's almost song by song, you know?

TRAVIS: Like the new stuff we're working on isn't like the 1st album. It has the same kind of sound to it, but the songs are different kind of songs. There's just different kind of feels. It's just a melodic rock band. I think we're a melodic power trio rock band.

AJ: Todd, for your sake, just so you know, when I broadcast this talk I'm going to cut it apart & insert some songs. So, people will get to hear & form their opinion well before they hear my question.

TRAVIS: You can probably just cut me out completely & the whole thing will make a little more sense. You can just say there's Todd & Len & this other guy in the band.

TODD: With every band it seems to be the case that its either a rock band or a blues band or some kind of commonality there, but with us it is hard for me to describe it.

AJ: Absolutely. Your answer is good. You keep on hinting about something I have to ask about. Up there in your part of Canada, can you tell me briefly about the music scene that's in your community? What's it like? What's popular? What's going on in Manitoba for those of us who have never been there.

TODD: There's a little bit of everything here, actually.

LEN: We have a club called The Time's Change, which is a roots blues kind of thing. We have lots of traveling acts from all over N. America that go there. We have a place called The Zoo that is basically hardcore & metal. Everything heavy has gone through there. Then we have the Pyramid, which is kind of a mixed bag of traveling acts. You'll get Johnny Winter to Allan Holdsworth.

TODD: I think more so than that, this city has festivals every year with all different kinds of music. That goes for the rest of the Provence & the rest of Canada, really. We have a pretty good music scene up here. Lots of talented musicians. We have blues festivals, rock, country, jazz, heavy metal.

LEN: Its everything that happens here. When you talk to people who are not from here, like from Vancouver or Toronto or any other city that's in Canada, that have traveled through here, they're very amazed by the amount of music that happens in this city. It's probably one of the most musical cities there is. The one thing about it though, is there's no outlet, because we are so far from any major record label attachment. If you want to get into any label orientated stuff you have to be in Toronto or Vancouver. Winnipeg doesn't have that sort of association, so most people either have to go down south or go east or west to try to get somewhere with their music. This is more of a breeding ground for some of the most unique musicians that you've ever seen.

TRAVIS: Here's the reason why. Because when people out, for the most part, go out to see a band, they don't want to hear Top 40. They want to hear what you've got. They encourage you to play what you do. That's a big thing about Winnipeg.

LEN: This is one of the cities that's got the most original acts that you can ever see.

TRAVIS: Because the people want that. You know, I lived in Calgary for 25 yrs. Calgary is a good city, but its a status quo city. They go, 'That's fine, but do you know any FLEETWOOD MAC?' You know what I mean? That's how it is in a lot of places, but here the people really want to hear what you do. They encourage you to play what you do & that's a really really important thing
to musicians, obviously.

AJ: You kinda hit on why I asked, Len, or you read into the reason why I asked that question. When I think of Canadian music scenes I think of Vancouver or Toronto, which has a lot of musicians like Bruce Cockburn who have really put Toronto on the music map, or you get something like ... when I grew up in Maine I remember moving coming over from Nova Scotia, very folksy stuff. But, what's in Winnipeg? For me I regionally I put you guys in the middle of nowhere.

TRAVIS: That's where we are.

TODD: What's funny is, when I moved to Vancouver I'd meet hundreds of musicians that were all from Winnipeg that had moved out there to do the same thing that I was doing. Now they are all back here. It's funny.

LEN: This city has no outside influence. That's the one thing. The long winters here spawn a bunch of weird wacky stupidity as far as writing music goes. It turns out to be like brilliance in a lot of cases. At the same time most of it will never get discovered because there's no real way to get it out to the masses. Like both Toronto & Vancouver, we're talking like 15-1600 miles away from Winnipeg. We're smack dab right in the middle of Canada. Other than the fact that we've got the hugest lakes in Manitoba it's dry as a bone here.

AJ: Even if you cross the border to come down here there's no big cities right there. Vancouver has Seattle, the other side has NYC.

LEN: It's 8-10 hrs away from Minneapolis.

AJ: Which is not known as a music capital.

TODD: Really 10 hrs from Chicago.

TRAVIS: Chicago is close, like Todd said.

AJ: Chicago is the home of the blues.

TRAVIS: There's some excellent music there. Chicago has a great music scene.

LEN: There is no real influence. That's good in that aspect, because then some of the stuff that actually does come out of Winnipeg that makes it is unique to its own, like that you've never heard in your life.

AJ: I hate use this analogy, but people who may be privy to this interview may get it, but when I think Manitoba I think of the Red Green Show.

TODD: That's pretty good.

AJ: That's full of stereotypes, but here's a guy in the middle of nowhere wearing flannel & with a beard.

TRAVIS: I've got some flannel. I've got a beard.

TODD: You could think of it more as the murder capital of Canada, because that's what we are, too.

TRAVIS: For various reasons.

AJ: That's where the death metal comes in.

TODD: That's right.

TRAVIS: Check out a show online called Less Than Kind. It's a tv show from Winnipeg about Winnipeg. If you want to understand Winnipeg, it's good.

AJ: I'll look for that. Let me ask one more question, along the same lines. Many people might not be familiar with the Canadian way the music industry works & the sticker that is found on all the records up there that tell you if there's a Canadian artist or producer or band. There's a big emphasis on home grown music. Is there Canadian music? Is there such a thing?

TRAVIS: Yeah, there is. There's a lot of guys who have made it, or a lot of great bands that have come out of Canada, going back to the 60's R&B band MANDALA.

AJ: I think down here we think of Neil Young, but we think of him more as this American guy. Todd, it's like AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, you sound so American, so Nashville, that its hard to place you in Canada. Or, you think of Bob Dylan's THE BAND. You can't get anymore America & NYC East Village than Dylan, but his back-up band was Canadian. So, is there a Canadian sound even?

TODD: I don't know if there's a specific Canadian sound at all. I mean, you have NICKELBACK which is from Alberta, which is one of the biggest rock bands in the world now. They're Canadian, but do they sound Canadian to me? No.

TRAVIS: No.

TODD: I think if you're talking Canadian, you'd be talking more East Coast kind of sounding stuff, like Stompin' Tom Connors or, you know, stuff like that. They have a specific sound, but I don't know ... I wouldn't be able to ... I mean, TRAGICALLY HIP is a big Canadian band & they're very unique sounding as well.

AJ: I was watching a video last night with guitarist Pat Travers & he was saying in an interview something like 'Just because I'm from Canada it didn't mean anything, because I always thought I was running with the big boys, Clapton or whoever else. But, because I'm from Canada there's something different about me.'

TODD: I think as far as musicianship goes we're the big boys up here. Everybody else can learn from us.

AJ: We're getting near the end of our time together. Is there anything you want to say that we haven't?

TRAVIS: I think we've pretty much covered it.

TODD: Yup.

TRAVIS: It all comes down to we just love playing together & doing it & writing & producing. It's just a really fun thing. If something good comes out of it, great, but if not we haven't lost anything.

LEN: I would just say, keep supporting original music. Doesn't matter what country it comes from. Just come support new music that's out there, so we can actually hear something that's different & unique.

TRAVIS: Sooner or later it's going to swing back. People are going to get tired of what's going on in the music industry & they're going to want to hear the real thing again.

TODD: NICKELBACK will die.

LEN: Even though they're from Canada.

AJ: Guys, I really appreciate you sitting down with me tonight.

TRAVIS: Thank you.

TODD: Thanks a lot, man.

AJ: You know, Travis & I became friends last year & we talk all the time. He's my biggest fan, but also my most honest one.

TRAVIS: The thing is, what you're trying to do, you're whole approach to this, what your show is all about, is the same thing as what we're all about & what everybody is all about who is trying to get the music out there. It's not like we're trying to get famous. We're not trying to get discovered. We're not trying to turn the world upside down. We'll take it if it happens, but that's not the whole goal. The goal is the music, right?

LEN: Look at us. We're all ugly fucks.

TRAVIS: Except for me.

AJ: I'll ask the wives about that.

TODD: We'll get them on next time.

TRAVIS: You'll get a really good view of us from them. That's what you should have done in the 1st place.

AJ: Next time I should sit down with the wives with guys. Anyways, Travis shared your music with me. I have so many albums to listen to & so many promos, so it can take me awhile to get to something, so when I finally listened to your album Life Is A ... I thought it was great & regret not listening months earlier.

TODD: Right on, man.

TRAVIS: Live Is A ... Cock Sandwich.

AJ: Is that what it is? It just has a picture of a chicken in bun.

TRAVIS: Nobody gets it.

LEN: Yeah, nobody gets it. It's sorta like its supposed to be that way.

TRAVIS: That chicken was drawn by the daughter of a friend of mine in Calgary.

LEN: It's not a chicken.

TRAVIS: It's a rooster.

AJ: I think you guys have good music. I asked you to join me tonight because you have good music, not just because I know Travis. It really is. There's folks I know I don't ask on my show.

"I'm Where All The Cool Kids Are" An Interview With LESLIE DINICOLA

2018-06-13T18:15:00.003-07:00

April 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #16)

Since 2010 NY based singer/songwriter Leslie DiNicola has released 5 solo EPs that seamlessly fuse rock, blues, country & pop music with her own personal lyrics & unforgettable melodies. The later 4 albums are collaborative efforts with producer & multi-instrumentalist Julian Coryell. His expansive career has included working with Loretta Lynn, Leonard Cohen, Jewel, Carole King, Alanis Morissette, Dave Brubeck, amongst many others, making it a triviality that he's the son of famed jazz guitarist Larry Coryell, the "godfather of fusion". His diverse musical background has found a common soul with Leslie, creating lush bedrocks for her intimate ballads of hearts broken & healed. Her second album, Draw Back Your Bow, featured unique low-key versions of Journey's "Separate Ways" & U2's "With Or Without You", featuring Coryell's guitar, which both peaked on CMJ charts. Leslie's performance resume includes clubs, festivals, sporting events, as described in this interview, & even singing backing for frontman John Waite of supergroup Bad English.

I discovered Leslie when she sent me her debut EP, It Resembles Fiction, for my album reviews blog. I was instantly hooked & considered it one of the best albums of 2010 for both indie & major label artists. I had the opportunity to see her in some intimate club performances in Manhattan while she promoting the album. We did this hour long interview live on my podcast during these days. The last time we saw each other was a double date with our respective others at a Lower East Side Indian restaurant listening to live sitar & tabla playing. I moved from Manhattan not long after & we lost contact soon after, though not before I had the pleasure of hearing Leslie's second EP. It was a covers album that paired her with Julian Coryell & opened unexpected new musical doors. Posting this blog I looked up her current music efforts & found that her career has continued to grow with more albums & higher profile gigs outside the Tri-State area. That makes me proud to see. Note that the musical direction of her later albums is different than what she foretold in this interview. For how that change came about can be discovered in a short interview we did over e-mail in March 2012 also on this blog.

* * *
AJ: Leslie, welcome to my humble little show.

LESLIE: Thank you. It's not humble at all. I'm humbled to be on it.

AJ: I wanted to open up by talking a little bit about the past. But, before I do, could you share with my audience where they can find your music online?

LESLIE: Sure. The best place, always, is my official website. I'm pretty much everywhere on the social networking sites. I'm where all the cool kids are.

AJ: The problem is it takes up a lot of your time to keep on top of all the sites.

LESLIE: Absolutely.

AJ: You probably spend as much time on social media as you do on the music sometimes. I know from my own experience.

LESLIE: Bad days are the ones where you find that you're spending more time on the computer doing it than actually sitting with your guitar or singing. It wears you down after a while. In the evenings I just refuse even look at the computer.

AJ: These days, Leslie, you're pretty much focusing your whole day on music in some way. In past personal conversations you told me you are focusing on moving you career forward & not worrying about a day job or stuff like that, right?

LESLIE: That was something that I decided at the beginning of this year. I was working bartending, working in restaurants, doing the thing that every musician does, ever since I moved to Manhattan. As much as we lose time draining our energy into social media, which helps our music, we also lose a lot of time working at the restaurants & bars. I realized that I just needed to put as much energy as I could into my music, especially at this time, because things seem to be working out. Opportunities are opening up for me. I wanted to give it a 100% from the beginning of 2011 to the end & see if I can finally get to that point where I'm making my full income based on music. That's the challenge I've given myself this year. I took that opportunity because the restaurant I was working at in Jan. was closed by the Manhattan Transit Authority, as the Mayor is building the 2nd Ave subway & wanted to build an entry to the subway right where my restaurant was. So, I kinda took that bad news as an opportunity to devote myself completely to music & see how far I can get with it.

AJ: A person might even say that maybe it was meant to be.

LESLIE: So, you are one of those! That's the way I like to see it.

AJ: With the direction you're going & with the path you're trying to brave, what's the biggest challenge?

LESLIE: The biggest challenge is kind of what we talked about a minute ago, that is juggling all the balls. Musicians these days have to wear all the hats. I have to be my own manager. I have to be my own publicist. I have to be my own booking agent. Sometimes you just want to sit back & just enjoy being a musician &put a 100% of your energy into that, because that in itself is a career & when you're juggling all these other balls it takes away from where you really want to be putting all your energy into. For me, that's been the challenge so far. That & knowing, you know, which people are there to help you. Which people can give you advice or make some connections for you & what people are just trying to, you know ... claim they are your manager & climb up on stage & grab the microphone & blur some drunken words into it for your show. It's hard to tell sometimes.

AJ: Do you find not being burdened by having to show up for work at a certain time has affected your music?

LESLIE: I think definitely, absolutely. I schedule my own work week now. I say from 8 a.m. until 5 p.m. I'm at work, which means maybe I'm in my apt., maybe I'm at the studio, maybe I'm working with people, but it's all devoted to the music, whether it's social networking or actually writing or working on old tunes that I want to finish or just working on the old tunes that I want to bring some new life to. I try to be very diligent about that. It's working out great so far, because I can say in the past couple months I've been writing a lot more than I had been. I definitely went through a dry spell once. It was when <u>It Resembles Fiction<u> came out. It was all about pushing that album. I started getting kind of drained by the fact that I wasn't creating & when you're not creating new things you feel like you're kind of cheating. So, it's been nice to really have a lot of extra time to work on that & not be rushed with it. To be able to actually put a lot of time into each song & see what it can become.

AJ: We're going to talk about that album in a bit, but you have a very interesting background. You have a theater degree & spent many years working in the nautical world, until deciding to stay on land & pursue music. Folks can read your website & find out more about your background, but what I'm curious about is what was your defining moment that made you decide to go to Manhattan & take up the musician's struggle? I don't know if defining moment is the right word.

LESLIE: You're right. I can't say if there was a specific moment, but I do remember where exactly I was when I kinda woke up, stumbled up on deck of the boat I was working on at the time & realized it was time to do my thing in Manhattan & make a go of it. It was when I realized that as much as I loved sailing & as exciting as it was to discover the North & South Pacific the way I've had the opportunity to do, I couldn't ignore the fact that there was something I wanted out of life which couldn't be obtained sailing. I knew that if I just dedicated myself to sailing & moved to the Pacific Northwest & did that full-time & never went back to the music, I'd always be regretting it. I'd always be thinking about it. I'd always be writing songs & wanting to play them for someone or trying to find people to play with to fill that void that I would be feeling. Whereas, I pictured my life living in Manhattan & pursuing music & the void that I feel not being out on the ocean is sad to me, but it's something I can live with. I have no regret over leaving it, because I have wonderful memories. I do feel like I did that & there was a time for it & that now is the time to do what I believe is my actual calling in life.

AJ: There is definitely something to the idea of pursuing a course which might be risky, but doing it so you will avoid the regret down the road. That can be a major motivational factor. I speak from my own experience of the lots of stuff I do, which has been driven by that exact same feeling. If I don't do it now, will I regret it in 10 years I wonder? So, let me do it & if it fails or if it doesn't, maybe it will go in a direction I have no clue of now & I can't predict, but at least I tried.

LESLIE: You need to be able to look back & know that you tried & that you gave it everything you had.

AJ: Your album is It Resembles Fiction. Will you please explain the title to me?

LESLIE: The songs that I write are personal stories. They all began from something that I either experienced or witnessed. I was on one side of the relationship or the other. With everything that I write there's an essence of fiction to it on a certain level. My writing process, I don't know if it's different or similar to other musicians, but I write from a place where I've experienced something. I want to put music to it & it almost helps me a little bit to get over that 1st hurdle by finding a story that is similar to it that is someone else's that I can relate to. Writing about that breaks through that barrier & I can start really throwing myself into it & then bring it back to my own situation. So, It Resembles Fiction is just the fact that these songs are stories that are true with a little a little exaggeration. A little bit of fiction thrown in there to make it a little more interesting. It also is meant to describe the fact that some of the songs are about stories that are so ridiculous that one would think they would be fiction.

AJ: Is there a particular song on the album that is so obviously crazy that it does seem like fiction?

LESLIE: Well, there's one ... no, all of them! I don't know, but probably the song "Back To Me" is kinda absurd in the fact that it is about a relationship that I was part of where, you know, you're completely devoted to a person. It's that person, who everyone has had, that just comes & tells you that you are the one & they love you so much that they can't live without you. Then, the 2nd you fall for it & let them in they just disappear & run off. It's pretty absurd that I was stuck in that for about 5 yrs & didn't snap out of it until I wrote this song. It's something I think everyone can relate to. That person who keeps coming back & keeps coming back & its about the strength you find in that one moment where you realize 'fine, go do your thing, go sleep with everybody in town, but we both know you are coming back.' It's about empowering yourself with that knowledge.

AJ: Its so absurd it feels like fiction.

LESLIE: Yes.

AJ: Leslie, let me confess, that the 1st time I heard you perform live in concert I had my typical audacity to actually suggest a song for your repertoire.

LESLIE: Yes, you did.

AJ: What I heard was a 30-45 minute little show. You ended with "Jolene" & I suggested afterwards that you do an additional country song in your set, which one is trivial, because I heard something in your voice that could be expressed via country music in a very good way.

LESLIE: Are you speaking of "Fancy" by Reba McIntyre?

AJ: The name of the song your mother couldn't remember & neither could I the last time I saw you.

LESLIE: You're right, she couldn't.

AJ: But, I think your song "Back To Me" actually somewhat shows what I heard & was hearing. You have this part of your voice that has a little bit of a country feel or it lends itself to the country genre, even though this isn't country music that you do. It's a little rock, a little bluesy. Is the sound on It Resembles Fiction something you had in your head or was it organically created?

LESLIE: My background is pretty diverse, to be honest. But, when I started really pouring myself into creating music & singing songs that I was passionate about I was living in Texas at the time & I was listening to a lot of alt-country, UNCLE TUPELO, WILCO. OLD 97'S. Those were the bands that were breaking me out of my classical training & into writing & creating & performing music that was inspiring me. So, I think I definitely got a little bit influenced vocally by those styles of music, but I've never wanted to fully invest myself into country music, even though there's a lot of country music I do love. It never felt like the right fit, because I was so ingrained in the rock & the blues that I had absorbed throughout the early stages of my life. So, I'm really trying to create a nice fusion between the 2. I don't want anyone to say to me 'Wow, you're a great country singer.' To me that that doesn't feel like what I want to be doing & I don't want anyone to say 'You're a great rock singer,' either, because that doesn't feel right. I feel very passionate about fusing the 2 together with a little bit of blues & that's where I feel comfortable singing. Those are the things I've been singing along with my whole life & that's what I was hoping to accomplish with It Resembles Fiction. My greatest joy was that in the end I really did feel as though I captured every element of every genre that I wanted to without making it feel scattered & unrelatable.

AJ: In creating the album you had a particular person you were working with who's really put a stamp on this album as a producer, co-songwriter & guitarist. Will you share with me a little bit about Mr. Ellis Traver, who has also worked with Mick Ronson & Sean Lennon.

LESLIE: He's a wonderful gentleman. I'm glad you asked.

AJ: I've met him, too. He is.

LESLIE: He's a wonderful person who I am so grateful to have met. I met him years ago, actually. It was when I had 1st moved to NYC. I had gone on a couple of sailing excursions that were distracting me from the music, but I knew it was something I needed to start planting some roots in. When I 1st got to the city I really didn't have any confidence in starting a rock band or starting with my own music that I had created. I had never done that before. I was always a part of someone else's rock band & was just the front man or woman. So, that's what I wanted to do when I moved to the city. I thought the best way to do that was to create demo of me just singing covers of the type of music that I wanted to perform. I went online. I was looking for a studio. It was around the holiday time & a bunch of them were offering some specials. There are a number of producers that I started emailing with, but Ellis, in particular, had really well punctuated grammatically correct emails that really spoke to me. There was something about his emails that stuck out & I was very excited to go see his studio. When I got there & met him I listened to some of the stuff he'd been doing & just got a really good feeling about it. I liked what was going on there. What I didn't know was that it was an apt/studio that all of my future band members were living in at the time. I think there was just something in the air & I just felt very creative in that space. Working on that demo with him we were just doing 4 covers & I just wanted it to be an acoustic guitar & my voice. I just wanted something simple. I was on a very limited budget. He, being the musical phenomenal genius that he is, just kept saying 'You know, how this would sound really good if it had some drums. I've got a drummer upstairs. You know what you need? You need some bass. Let me get someone to put some bass down. Let's throw some violins on here.' The next thing I knew I was sitting in a room with the people who would eventually be helping me create It Resembles Fiction & performing with me on stage. The demo just came out so well that I'd already out grown it by the time we were done. As I picked up my master copy of the disc Ellis mentioned 'Why aren't you creating your own music? Why did we spend all this time doing covers?' I told him I didn't know how to write songs. I'd never done it before. He just suggested we sit down on Mon nights. We'd split a 6 pack of beer & he would look at the stuff that I was writing secretly, under the covers. It was absolutely terrifying to hand like a journal over to somebody for the 1st time. I mean, like here's what I think could be songs. Please don't judge me. He was great about showing me what worked, what didn't, what basic structure formulas are &, you know, how to pay attention to this or that. Basic songwriting 101 that I never got because I was a theater major. It was those little things that you start thinking about that completely change your writing & all of the sudden stories can come together & really become something more powerful, because you're thinking of joining them with music, which makes them that much more impactful. That's where we began & we just stayed in touch with each other. He went out on tour with Sean Lennon. He was out doing a lot of stuff & I was still sailing & pretending that was what I really wanted to do with my life. Once I got back to the city after that final trip I heard from him. Not not much longer after I got back. He just kinda said 'Hey, I've got a free weekend. Do you want to come in & lay some stuff down? Have you been working on anything?' I didn't want to lose that opportunity, even though I really only had like 4 or 5 songs that were actually done. So, I just went in & said, 'Alright, let's pick a couple & let's let's work on them & record it. I would love to get some things down.' The next thing I know it's locked into his studio for 3 days with the band & we just plugged away. We did those 1st 4 songs that I actually had in the 1st day. He'd ask 'What do you got?' I'd sing a melody line that was in my head & then we'd start jamming on it together, formulating a whole song & just laid it down. Next thing I knew I had 15 songs to choose from for my EP.

AJ: There's only 5 on the EP.

LESLIE: 5 of my favorites.

AJ: There's 10 more out there in the mist.

LESLIE: You've heard at least one of those.

AJ: You got together with this group of people. You recorded an album together. How long after recording the album did it take before you turned to them & asked if they wanted to join you on stage? Was that even a consideration when you were doing the album? Did you think this would also become your live band?

LESLIE: That's a great question, because it wasn't. It was a little bit of an odd situation, so I thought, because these people are just phenomenal musicians who play in a million other bands & are constantly touring & working. I always knew them as like my dream band that would never actually be mine. People I could get into the studio & record with when they were available, but I had many other musicians who I was performing with. I was in a band I was singing back-up for. While I was writing these songs & fleshing them out & until the time we were done recording I was asking them to be my backing band whenever I booked shows on my own. They were busy as well, so I started to put together my own group. They were also fantastic musicians, but there's something about the chemistry that happens between me & the band that I play with now that I was always missing & wishing I had on stage with me. I finally just turned to Ellis one day after one of my shows & I said 'Can you guys be my band?' I was a little drunk. He was like 'We'll talk about it, we'll talk about it.' The next thing I knew these people were actually interested in playing with me, as long as I booked shows that work for all of us. The 1st thing I do when I get offered a show is text everybody & see if they're available. If 70% of them are, then we do it & it's fantastic. I've never been happier than this past year & a half playing with them.

AJ: What's the future hold for those 10 missing songs? After all this work, will you be sharing them with us?

LESLIE: A lot of them make appearances at shows. Most are finished. I think there were like 2 or 3 that we just tossed away, that just weren't really working for us. Just seemed like they were a part of a different project in the overall essence of how they sounded. We put those away & focused on what was remaining. Finished most of them, but they just need to be mastered or a little more mixing. One of them needs a little more instrumentation. They are things that we play live almost all the time & they're definitely songs that I'll be considering for my next EP.

AJ: You sent one of those songs to me in an e-mail, "Can't Change It Now", with a little note that said it was one of your favorites, if not the favorite.

LESLIE: I did say that.

AJ: What is in that message to me?

LESLIE: I wanted you to hear more. I remember in your review of It Resembles Fiction that you wanted to hear more & that 5 songs was too short. It is one of my favorites because I think it truly blends a little bit more of the country side that I was think I was a little bit too afraid to show when we 1st started writing the EP. I mean, I'm in the Manhattan music scene now, but if I had stayed in Texas that song would have gone over great. I was a little hesitant to let people hear that, because I felt a little bit of pressure in the beginning when I was younger to fit into this indie rock scene that is so prominent here. Not a lot of people want to go to the country side with me. As I kept performing people were very responsive to the song. People kept saying that they loved it, not because they love country music, but because they loved what was coming out of me when I was performing it. It's because I think what is coming out of me is a little bit of my home in music. It's the music that truly inspired me & got me creating & I think that comes out in it.

AJ: I should clarify, when I did the review last year I did put that it was too short. There's a lot of albums that I listen to that you get beyond the 1st few songs & then you're just watching the clock waiting for it to end. The musicians think what they are doing is great, but shorter can sometimes be better, in terms of you're not surprised by what you're hearing & everything on the album sounds alike. Then other times, as in your case, you hear an album that is incredibly strong & you want more. You feel like you've been left hungry & so much more could be said or served. You don't want the journey to end. I felt like with your album that we were on a date & I didn't want it to end. But, why did you release an EP & not a full-length album? You obviously have enough songs.

LESLIE: There was a lot of factors that played into the decision to release an EP. It was a big decision. We went back & forth about a million times. It just got to the point where we'd been working on it long enough. It needed to come out. It was time. We just kinda said, 'Hey, let's throw something out there. Let's look at the big picture. If we throw out a full-length album right now we can continue writing obviously & keep creating & push this album as far as we can go. But, if our intention is to hopefully get some recognition from some investors or a label or what have you, it's probably better to release 5 songs, get some interest, & say, 'Hey, if you want to invest in me, I've got 10 more in the can that we can get out right away & I'm writing more.'' It just seemed business-wise to be the right course of action. I definitely made the final decision, but, you know, I kind of let the people who had done this before & knew what they were doing advise me & I rolled along with that. I'm not upset about it, because I think I didn't pigeonhole myself anywhere that I can't escape from. I feel very free to bring out another EP or full-length. We haven't decided which it will be yet & I can really not feel limited in where I can take it musically, because I didn't release an album that specifically defined as a genre what I'm doing. I still feel very free to keep investigating where we're going musically.

AJ: With your background with a classical training & being a back-up singer & you've done different things in different parts of the country, when you got It Resembles Fiction done was there any hesitancy to share it with your friends or your family & go, 'Okay, you've been listening to me all these years, but this is the result ...' Did you ever have that fear?

LESLIE: I definitely never felt hesitancy in it. I definitely was just like overwhelmed with the urge to get it out there, because I feel like I did have so many people supporting me along the way, who were so invested in me whether they be friends or family or even the bands that I was singing with & providing backup vocals for. All of them were kept asking when they were going to hear my stuff. When were they going to get to hear what I'd been creating? It was probably the most exciting thing to finally have that CD release party & show everyone what it was that I've been working on & what it was that I had in me all this time. I just needed time to get it out & I wanted it to be perfect. I didn't want to start playing lots of little shows where I'm like figuring it out along the way. Even though I did, I didn't really publicize them too much, because I just wanted to get that experience under my belt & have a really polished finish fantastic product for all these people who'd been waiting perfect.

AJ: Now you have gotten recognition, both personally & the album itself. Would you mind sharing some of the interesting gigs you've had? I'm thinking in fields with audiences around you in bleachers. You know what I mean?

LESLIE: Surrounded by sweaty athletes.

AJ: Something like that.

LESLIE: It was a fantastic year. It was very exciting. I let the album release on March 4th in NYC. We did a release party at Arlene's Grocery. There was a woman there who was affiliated with the Atlanta Braves. She approached me after the show & said, 'I love what you're doing. This is so fantastic. You've got to come down to Atlanta & sing the "National Anthem" for the Braves.' After I fell down & got back up I, of course, agreed. She wanted to fly the whole band down & get some shows for us. That's really where it started. Before we even got down to Atlanta to perform at the Braves game she called me again after setting it up & said, 'You know, I've been working on some things & about a week or so after you come down to Atlanta we're going to be in NY playing the Mets, so you should just sing it again at Citi Field. That's when I actually went unconscious for about 5 minutes. Finally woke up & accepted that offer. So, it was a great summer. That's where it started. We went down to Atlanta & I sung the "National Anthem" for the 1st time since I was in high school. It's a difficult song. It's got a little over an octave in there. But, there's no greater honor for a singer than to be asked to sing that at a sporting event & there's nothing cooler than standing in the middle of an empty baseball field doing a soundcheck with those acoustics. I did try to steal the Atlanta Braves microphone, but I was caught. It was very fun & then we came up to NY & did it again. We had a big wrap-up party. Things got quiet for a couple weeks. I was just sorta resting from my 1st tour, quote/unquote, & I got a call from the NY Rangers asking me to perform the "Anthem" at Madison Square Garden. I guess they had seen the youtube videos from the baseball games. That was just hugely amazing. Before I even got to Madison Square Garden to perform I got an e-mail from the NY Red Bulls asking me to come sing for them. I had to actually look at my boyfriend asking who the NY Red Bulls were, because I don't know anything about soccer. I didn't know we had a soccer team. So, it just kind of all happened in waves & it was fantastic. It kind of, you know, brought me a little bit to the next level. It was a great stepping stone for me. To get my name out there. Get a lot of experience singing at arenas like this, which there's no way to prepare for it other than to just go out there & do it. It was just a great great time.

AJ: Now I have to ask, because I'm probably not going to have this opportunity again with someone. You're singing in Madison Square Garden the "National Anthem." Now, you know as well as I do, we all like to watch people sing this & mess up. But, tell me, what is it really like in that moment, in that venue, singing this song that's really difficult? We sit at home teasing folks, but give us the insider's view.

LESLIE: I enjoy watching people mess it up too. because it gives you that validation of like 'I didn't mess up, but Christina Aguilera did. I'm just as good as her.' But, the reality is, it's a very very stressful situation. It's a very very stressful thing to do. The acoustics, the electronics, the rushing, the crowd ... What I learned from performing in one baseball stadium was 120 degrees to another baseball stadium in the north to Madison Square Garden with ice on the ground to a soccer arena that's completely enclosed. Every stadium is different. No matter how many times or if you're a famous star & have done it, it's always going to be different. You can't prepare for it. Sometimes it gets the best of you & you're going to mess up. The thing that separates the people that can be successful from the people who can't, is your ability to run with anything that pops up at you. Christina Aguilera messed up some lines, but most people didn't notice because she just kept going & didn't acknowledge it & didn't let it get her down. That's really what you've got to do. When I sang at Madison Square Garden I actually ... I have a little digital recorder I keep in my pocket that has my starting note, because you get so nervous backstage you can't keep that note in your head for too long, so I always have it there just in case. At this point I had done this 3 times. I was feeling pretty good. I was having a good time, joking with the guy that was escorting me cause it was his 1st day on the job. I was about ready to go out & I just figured I had it. I had the note in my head & didn't worry about it. I went out & started in the wrong key. But, you just got to roll with it & realize you can sing it in that key, too, ain't no problem. Most people didn't notice, even my boyfriend who had been there for every single other performance had no idea. You just have to be able to jump over the challenges that get thrown at you.

AJ: Let's talk about your home life, for a minute, because you mentioned your boyfriend. You live with a fellow musician, John-Paul Baker, who is a drummer in a heavy metal band here in NYC, a complete contrast to what you do. Does living with him & being in a relationship with a musician of a different style effect your music any?

LESLIE: I think because of the particular situation that we are in it actually benefits my music hugely. I'll say that for a couple of reasons. Number one, I've had my fair share of relationships with musicians. My album is about 5 of them. It doesn't usually work out. It's a tricky situation. In fact, I guess it was probably a year before I met John-Paul I had totally sworn them off altogether. The 2nd, I would meet a guy & I was interested in him & he would say, 'Yeah, I play guitar,' it would be like, 'Nope, sorry, I'm out here. I gotta go.' It just doesn't usually work, but I'd never tried a drummer before & I think the difference is that I'm a singer & he's a drummer & there are no 2 elements of a band that are more different. The drummer is the rhythm section, the anchor of the band. He's driving the boat & keeping it on course & it's a very reliable & steady individual that has to fill that role. You know I'm not dealing with the frontman & all the drama & the narcissism that I was before. I think the other key element to it is that we are in completely different genres. Our bands are not even remotely similar. We're not competing for the same gigs. We're not competing for the same fans. It's almost as if we have 2 totally different professions, but we can totally support each other because we are both musicians. We both know what we're going through & we can advise each other & help each other & just be there & understand what the other person is going through. I think we have found that unique combination of 2 musicians that actually can work together.

AJ: We're getting near the end of our time together, Leslie, but I wanted to mention the fact you have licensed a track to an indie film.

LESLIE: I licensed to Pocket Full Of Gold, an indie film out in L.A., a Scatter Brothers & Wolf In The Grave Production. It was 'Can't Change It Now' which we talked about. I had met the director & co-writer Jeff Prugh when I was out there a couple years ago visiting my brother. We just crossed paths & he mentioned he was a filmmaker & I mentioned I was a musician. I heard from him about a year later asking if I had anything that he could listen to for his new movie. This was right before It Resembles Fiction was finished. I sent him all the songs on the album, which were done & just needed to be mastered. I also made the mistake of sending 3 of the songs that weren't finished that aren't on the album. The whole time I was thinking that no way would he be interested in any of the unfinished songs. He's going to love the ones that are done because they sound so good. He wrote back & said it had to be "Can't Change It Now." He said he loved it & it was perfect, to which I replied, 'Did you notice that there's no chorus? Did you notice I'm not finished writing it & I have no idea what the song is about?' I was very upset that he had chosen that song, because I was at a point with it that I knew what it was about, I knew where it was going, but I just could not write a chorus to save my life. I just couldn't really get there. I was getting really frustrated with it, so I'd thrown it out & didn't want it to be a part of anything. But, him choosing it was great, because all of a sudden I had a deadline. I had to finish it. I had no choice if I didn't want to lose this opportunity. I just finally found an afternoon where inspiration struck & I was finally able to write that chorus that I'd been trying to figure out for like 6 months. It was great. The movie did pretty well on the indie film circuits. It won some awards.

AJ: Leslie, as we approach our last few minutes is there anything you want to share that we haven't?

LESLIE: If anyone should come to my next shows we're doing something different. On my album a lot of the songs were created right there in the studio with tape rolling. For this next album I'm taking a different approach. I've written the songs, though I'm still writing more, & I want to know what it is like to play them for a year & find out what they become when they are heard by an audience for awhile. That's what we're doing now.

"Heavy Metal For A Real Metalhead Is A Way Of Life" An Interview With MIKE "THE BIG CHEESE" CATRICOLA of HEAVY METAL MAYHEM PODCAST

2018-03-24T13:32:00.002-07:00

Sept 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #29)

In 2008 Mike "The Big Cheese" Catricola started broadcasting out of NYC the Heavy Metal Mayhem podcast, via hosting site blogtalkradio, featuring music & interviews with an array of rock & heavy metal musicians from across the spectrum. Continuing to the present with 2 shows a week & available permanently online, the show can claim longevity that many podcasts never reach. It can also claim a list of guests most interview shows can be jealous of, while listeners are never disappointed - ranging from new bands to classic rockers like John Mikl Thor, from indie to household names, to leaders of the genre like David Ellefson, Rob Halford & Chuck Billy. Heavy Metal Mayhem, with Mike's cool but edgy NY attitude, is the epitome of heavy metal podcasts & a template of how to do it. It serves as publicity for the musicians & their current efforts & is a time to recall past glories, but even more so is a tribute & thank you from a lifelong fan of the music. When he was younger Mike played bass with numerous punk bands, such Stillborn, thus he is also a musician with insight & understanding of the music beyond just being a listener.

During the few years that I was doing weekly music podcasts I paid as much attention to other podcasters as I did musicians on the scene. I wanted to know what others were doing so I could find my niche. Putting together a podcast or radio show is no casual matter, but it is rare when one finds an interview with someone whose not on stage & can talk about the efforts behind the production. A podcaster interviewing an array of musicians over a decade likely has as much if not more to say than a band that has only existed for a year, but folks want to hear from the band. I thought it would be interesting to share behind the scenes & share the person who is sharing the music, so I asked Mike to join me for an hour in what might have been his only interview as a podcaster. I had been following Mike's show & we had struck up a connection that included sharing thoughts & advice & getting me an interview with the late John Wetton of Asia, which I cherish as a fond memory. Though, as I was told by a musician afterwards, it was less like an interview & more like a conversation between 2 people in the same field of work.

* * * *

AJ: Mike, thank for being here with me.

MIKE: Aaron, thank you for having me here. Your introduction was so incredible I don't even know how to follow it up. I actually impress myself. Thank you very much. Congratulations to you on your one year anniversary of your show.

AJ: I think you know how hard it is to do a show, so that means a lot coming from you. You know, when you're starting something that 1st year it's like it could live or die & so many things die. It's a big deal for me.

MIKE: Exactly. You put on a great show. Your interviews are always so top-notch. I mean, you had a whole bunch of shows celebrating your year anniversary & that Sophie B. Hawkins interview. After hearing that I said I can't do anybody anymore, because it was such a great interview & it was so personal. It was beyond like a question-answer type thing. You just blew me out of the water with that one.

AJ: Well, it wasn't deliberate, Mike, you know how these things go.

MIKE: I know.

AJ: You don't plan this stuff. It just happens. You know, the show started & I didn't know she had a breakdown, just that she wasn't calling in. Then there's a phone call coming through 30 minutes in & when the 1st words out of her mouth were suicide you either go with your interviewee or you work against them. Sometimes the mood isn't right for a 20 questions thing, you know. But, please don't stop interviewing, Mike, as you're getting the folks I'll never reach & I'm listening to your show.

MIKE: It's a lot of work. Like you said, people don't realize how much work goes into putting on a show. You know, like researching the artist, especially the people that you're not familiar with or you really haven't heard a lot of their music over the years. Just putting the whole program together is such a chore, but it's an enjoyable one, but it is a lot of work. I know exactly how hard you work on your show.

AJ: You can tell by my questions I do research & I listen to the musicians before they come on. But, you have 2 shows you do. You're actually playing music on the Thursday Metal Matinee. You're playing stuff where you've actually had to dig into your collection & think of stuff, which is a whole other challenge.

MIKE: I have been a fan of hard rock & heavy metal since the 1970's, so I still have all my vinyl collection & demo tapes & cassettes & 8 tracks & CDs & now mp3s. I was just thinking there was a lot of shows out there, but no one was playing the stuff that really didn't make it. Like if you go back to the 1980's you have JUDAS PRIEST, IRON MAIDEN, Ozzy, all those big bands. Everybody plays them. Nobody plays those other bands that kept the scene alive & going & just didn't make it or don't have that kind of fan base that the bigger bands had. I thought it would be a good idea to focus on those bands & that's what I've been doing.

AJ: I know also a lot of what you do, Mike, is you look at bands that for a lot of people are one hit wonders, but they're one hit with like 20 albums. There's one episode I remember of ACCEPT. Everyone thinks of ACCEPT as "Balls To The Wall", but they've done how many albums? Or the SCORPIONS, "Rock You Like A Hurricane," but look at all the stuff they've done. You do those great episodes where you talk about a whole band for a little while & you really expose people to more than the MTV hit.

MIKE: Exactly. Those are the timeline shows & I try to play something off every album or at least as many albums as I can fit into the one hour format of the show. It gives people a sample of like the earlier stuff, because, like you said, people know ACCEPT. They know "Balls To The Walls." They don't know their 1st record or 2nd record or some of the ones that came after metal kinda fell out of favor in the '90s. It's a great way of just sampling a band's whole career & then going back & maybe buying those albums.

AJ: That's so important, because those musicians are still out there making money. What I did see the other day in an interview with Lou Reed? He said something like 'it's funny being alive, yet all your albums are out of print.'

MIKE: That's so true.

AJ: So, it's hard for folks to discover your old music.

MIKE: That's true & that has a lot to do with the record industry today. It's in really bad shape. It's kinda an upheaval of chaos. People, like the next generation younger than us, they'll never have an opportunity to hear these songs or these records if they're not re-released, so that's kind of a shame.

AJ: This is the way it goes & now with record stores cutting back on stock you can't just flip through the racks & have the world at your fingertips. There's few places to go. I miss Virgin Records & Tower Records. Those were like an oasis.

MIKE: They were great. I miss them, too. Especially Tower Records. I remember going there in the early '80's. That was like one of the only places you could get like import records back then that were hard to find from Japan & overseas. I remember the first record I brought in Tower Records was QUIET RIOT's 1st record that was only released in Japan. I think I paid like $24.99 for it & this is back in like 1981. That was a lot of money for a teenage kid to spend on an album. I do miss those days of going to the record stores. There's no experience like that. You can't get that on the internet.

AJ: No, not in the least. You've been listening to metal since you were a kid. What makes metal so special?

MIKE: I guess maybe because it was the 1st music ... I grew up in a house where my parents played rock'n'roll, do-wop, '50's & '60's music. As a kid, you know, you always want to find your own niche. I had cousins & neighbors who were older than me who were always playing KISS. I think that was probably the 1st band a lot of people people got into back in the '70's. I don't know, there's just something about the music. The power, the intensity, it's just rock'n'roll. It's there for you.

AJ: I know you're not a musician today, but did you ever get into playing anything?

MIKE: Oh yeah, when I was a kid I was in a band called STILLBORN. We were like a hardcore punk band, only because I wasn't good enough to play heavy metal. Hardcore punk back then was a lot of noise, so it was easier. I played bass. We played for about 5 years from '84 to '89. We played at CBGB'S. Actually, a record company put out an album for my band last year. They took all our old demo tapes, remastered them, & they released an album last year called Answers Left Unquestioned.

AJ: Wow, I have to look that up.

MIKE: I'll send a copy. I've got about 400 cases at the house.

AJ: Please do.

MIKE: You can use it as coasters, anything you want.

AJ: Well, you know, the living room table is sagging. I need to put something underneath.

MIKE: This is perfect for wedging it up. Don't worry.

AJ: Okay, Heavy Metal Mayhem is now 3 or 4 years? I just know its over 200 episodes.

MIKE: It'll be 3 years in 2 weeks. We'll have a 3 year anniversary show. There's about 300 episodes.

AJ: That's amazing, man. You do 2 week. You do take holidays, but that's like 2-3 hours a week you're on the air?

MIKE: 3 hours. The Metal Matinee on Thursdays. An hour long theme show. The Sunday night show is 2 hours because that's the maximum I could do. That's just music & mostly interviews.

AJ: How do you do it? Where do you find the time & the prep time to create the show?

MIKE: I tell you, it takes a lot of time away from my wife & she's not happy about that.

AJ: You have that problem, too?

MIKE: You get that little voice in your ear, "You're on the computer again?" I'm lucky that I have a job that I work nights at, so it gives me a lot of time to prep & prepare. It is really consuming. I mean, there's planning out a playlist. Then when you do interviews, you know ... a lot of times with the artist, I'm familiar with a lot of them, so I don't really have to prepare too much, but then you have some bands that are new. You've got to look a lot of stuff up. It does take a lot of time. It really does. You know that.

AJ: I don't think people know that. I didn't know that when I started doing this. Then I started talking to bigger people, like my big interview with Graham Bonnet who's got a 30 year career. 1I don't want to ask the same questions. I can't say how many hours I spent listening to other interviews doing research to try to do something different. I don't think anyone realizes just how much time you & I & others like us put into this thing. We work as much as any musician.

MIKE: It's true. There's a lot of time that goes into this, especially if you care about what you do. You just don't want to throw something together. Like you said. asking honest questions. It's really hard to be different, because everybody's asking the same questions over & over again. You try to find something different & it's not so easy. You manage to do it all the time, which I'm really impressed by. You never go to same direction with your interviews.

AJ: Thanks, man.

MIKE: That really impresses me. I wish I could do that.

AJ: You know what it is, Mike? Every episode, every hour, I'm standing on a pier just about ready to jump into the ocean. I'm waiting for someone to push me into the ocean & I don't know if I'm going to sink or swim,

MIKE: Oh god, I know that feeling.

AJ: I'm not reading a script to you right now. We didn't plan this.

MIKE: Nope.

AJ: We haven't talked before outside of e-mail. I never know what's going to happen. I literally freak out every time I have a show. I don't know about you. But, then, if I'm talking to someone who I really like, like Sophie or Graham, I've got goosebumps at the same time & I'm worried I'm going to go forget how to talk.

MIKE: Yeah, that happens. You're right. I know exactly how you feel. It's funny when you talk to someone else who does the same thing you do, because we both have the same train of thought. We both know where it's going.

AJ: You know then, the other thing is, you don't just not know where it's going, but you don't know how you're going to click with the person. As you mentioned, the interview with Sophie was like a highlight for me & we just clicked, but I've had other interviews where I've talked to some great folks but if we didn't click in the same way. I know you've had them & there are musicians out there who are a little bit known for being a little rough in interviews. So, how are you going to relate to someone when you're spending an hour with them. That's a long time not to click with someone. So, you're literally ready to jump into the ocean.

MIKE: Oh, I know, I know. Like you were saying about getting nervous ... I've had a 178 interviews, but a few of those guests I've interviewed a couple of times so it's over 200. The only time I was nervous was the first one I ever did, because I don't want to run out of things to ask & when I interviewed Rob Halford. That was probably the only 2 times I got nervous. I know exactly what you're saying about clicking, because I've had interviews where I felt like I was extracting teeth to get an answer out of somebody. It was funny, because a lot of those people have been around a long time, they're well-known & they've done hundreds of interviews, so you think they would be a little better at it. Some of them aren't. Then you get some young people that come on & they're just like full of life. They just go for it. Those are the great ones, because you don't feel like you have to keep pulling things out of them. They're right in there.

AJ: Have you ever had someone you've spoken to who, like maybe you were expecting something in the interview or maybe you weren't, but they just blew you away. They just started talking. They just gave you like a volcano & you didn't expect it was going to be like that?

MIKE: Frankie Banali from QUIET RIOT was like that & Craig Gruber, the original bass player from RAINBOW & ELF, those are some interviews that were like that. They just went off like on a lot of things & they mentioned a lot of personal stuff. With groups like that I know a lot of stuff about them that people might have forgotten, so they kind of get like impressed that I can recall that stuff. I couldn't tell you what I did an hour ago, but I can tell you stuff that happen with a band 25 years ago. I think that kinda puts them at ease. They don't hear me ask like the regular questions that most people would ask.

AJ: I don't know about you. but I find a lot of times when you can tell the musicians something about their career that shows you've done more than read their Wikipedia page it's like they're impressed by that. It's like they kind of respond a little better.

MIKE: That's what a lot of people do. They go right to it & they don't know the stuff they are finding in there is wrong. I remember I interviewed somebody I knew nothing about. I look some stuff up on them. I mentioned it & he goes, "That wasn't me. I was never in that band." I felt like an idiot after that. You got to stick to your guns & just go with your heart. It can take you in any direction these interviews. You've just got to be able to go with it.

AJ: You don't have to mention names, Mike. We don't have to accuse anyone of doing something bad, but have you had any difficult guests?

MIKE: Tony Harnell. I don't care about mentioning names.

AJ: Oh well.

MIKE: The original singer from TNT. He was a difficult interview. I couldn't get much out of him. He felt like he was doing me a favor by being on the show. I don't know. It was a very uncomfortable interview. He felt like he didn't want to be here & it was a bother to him. That's something I just don't get in to. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. This is part of the job, in a way, for these guys. He was the only interview I did where it really left a sour taste in my mouth.

AJ; Well, he lives abroad so I doubt he'll hear this. But, he may know it already.

MIKE: Even if he did, I wouldn't care. I'm always polite to every guest on the show. I never say anything bad about them on the show, even after they're on the show, but that was one of those interviews that didn't go well.

AJ: You & I have talked in the past about interviews where the person doesn't show up. How do you deal with folks who don't show up? You're waiting for the phone call & you're waiting for the phone call & you're waiting & you've got to do some back-up plan.

MIKE: That's rough. We have a book on my show everybody goes into. If they don't show up & they don't call me the next day with a good excuse they go right into my book. It's like the 10 Commandments. The bands, their names are stricken from the obelisk of heavy metal & they have nothing to do me anymore. It is bad, because I can understand if there's an emergency. Stuff does happen. It happens to everybody. As long as they call to explain the next day that something happened, I'm okay with it. But, not to call in because you were busy with something else or you forgot, I don't go for that. When you're on air your listeners tune in to hear a certain artist & they are looking forward to it. They don't blame the artist for not coming on the show. They blame you. I set it up, but if they don't call I can't help it. You kinda just gotta wing it. I'm lucky that my friend Tommy calls in every week so I can have someone I can bounce off of & keep things going, so we're never really without anything. I always have something in the can I can always play if I have to. But, it is a hard thing. I know it happened to you not long ago & you were really upset about it.

AJ: It happened a couple times. We were talking about that, because you'd told me that, 'I had that happen to me for one person & I didn't say any bad things about them. Come to find out they had something like their father died. Then someone else I did criticize because they blew me off.' Because, I was trying to figure out how to respond. Do I shit on the person knowing they fucked up & they quite deliberately fucked up, or do I bite my tongue thinking they can fix this & do a second interview, even though I'd lost my interest.

MIKE: I did the same thing too. The first time it happened I went crazy on the air & then the next day I found out somebody passed away & I felt horrible. Now I wait. If they don't call then the next week we just go off on them. It's terrible, because it puts you on the spot, especially like when you prepare. You spend hours preparing for this interview sometimes & then they just stand you up. It doesn't feel good.

AJ: I've been stood up 3 & Sophie called late, but she had a very good excuse as her truck broke down. All 3 times if you would asked like a week before if that was going to happen, you know what, I would have said 'I think something's going to happen on my show this week.' All 3 times I literally knew something was going to happen & it did. 2 of the times I actually had a backup episode planned & the 3rd time I just let the feeling go & I didn't. It's just weird how that's been. What do you do for back-up, Mike? Do you have back-up episodes ready to go?

MIKE: No, there's no back-up. Everything is live on the show. 90% of the interviews are done live. A few of them get pre-recorded because guests are in many different parts of the world & we can't do it time-wise. I just have to wing it. Because I play a lot of music on the show it's easy to fill up those 15-20 minutes with 3 or 4 songs or I've got my friend Tommy who I can talk to about different things. It's not that difficult for me, outside of just disappointing the fans who tuned in to hear that artist. You can always fill in the time, You, you're in a different with your hour long interviews & not playing music. You focus on interviews, so you're stuck without them.

AJ: I'm in quicksand.

MIKE: You can always call me.

AJ: Now you tell me. Next time I'm screwed I'm going to call you & you better pick up, even if you're at work or sleeping on the sofa.

MIKE: I'll pick up. I'll be your back-up plan.

AJ: Okay. I've got a comment coming in on the chat board. "I love the book," says our mutual friend Ken Pierce of the Piercing Metal blog.

MIKE: He's talking about the banned book for the artists that don't call in.

AJ: Mike, tell me about your co-host Tommy.

MIKE: Tommy has been a friend of mine for probably close to 30 yrs. As teenagers we met. He was actually a couple years older than me. Tommy was a guitar player in a great heavy metal band from Brooklyn called TEMPEST & I met him at a concert his band was playing out in Brooklyn. We've been friends ever since then. Tommy was actually the one who came across our hosting site blogtalkradio about 3 yrs ago & he started a podcast called Metalheads United. He did an episode or 2 & then he stopped doing them. I asked if he minded if I changed the name, pick it up & carry on with it. I can never figure out why he wanted to stop doing it, but after doing one myself I realized why. Its a lot of work & he just didn't have the time. So, that's how it goes. Tommy hangs out with me every week & we have a good time, you know.

AJ: 2 guys just talking about metal.

MIKE: Yeah, that's all.

AJ: Bullshitting about metal.

MIKE: Yeah, that's it. We have a good time & I'm glad that he hangs out with me every week because it makes it a lot more fun.

AJ: It's easier, too, I know. You actually just answered what I wanted to also ask. How did your show gets started. Tommy created the initiative.

MIKE: He started it with his show & then when he didn't want to continue with it I changed the name. I remember I did 2 or 2 like half hour practice shows getting used to the equipment & everything, because I'm not very good with computers. Then like after 3 episodes I became so bored. I just was playing music & talking & nobody was listening. I thought I'd do a theme show. It all took off from that show.

AJ: It's funny, Mike, you just hit my next question. It's like you're reading my mind.

MIKE: I've got to stop talking.

AJ: I was going to ask how the show started, what was your vision, & how has it changed? You basically said you started with just the music & kinda grew into the interviews. That's what happened to me. I started doing reviews & then the interviews kinda took off & now I'm basically doing that. I like doing it better & I think the audience likes it better & that attracts more listeners.

MIKE: I agree. I think I think the people love interviews, especially when you get artists people don't really get to hear too often. For me , it was the same way. I started just playing music & it got boring. I decided to do a theme show & I did 6 degrees of METALLICA for the weekday show. Nobody listened, but suddenly I had 21 people listening. All my family is at work, so it wasn't them. I was like so impressed, you know.

AJ: You do more interviews & you get more people & it grows & grows, then look where you are now. 3 yrs later you have this commitment 2 times a week

MIKE: It's amazing how things just snowball. Like one interview leads to another & then another & contacts. I stand back from time to time. I'm like a kid in a candy shop. I get to talk to all these great artists that I listened to growing up. Even though a lot of people might not have heard of them, to me they were big deal because I played their albums growing up as a kid. So, it's just an amazing thing.

AJ: You said earlier, it's good talking to people you know about. It's better to talk to someone who you've been listening to, versus some new band whose name you might have seen in passing. I do the same thing. I talk to the people I know or whose music I like already.

MIKE: That does make it easier. Like the whole first year of the show that's what I did. I looked for all the artists that I liked growing up & I started reaching out to them through any place I could find their info. That's what I did for the whole first year, then as you move along you start making contacts with PR people & record labels & management, you know. Sometimes you have to interview people that's really not what you're into just to kind of get somebody else. That's what happens along the way & I've done a lot of interviews along the way & I don't know who they are.

AJ: Well, you do now!

MIKE: To get Rob Halford from JUDAS PRIEST I had to get 25 other bands that I didn't know. Sometimes you have to do that to get your foot in the door with these people.

AJ: It's alright. You never know what happens. Now, I've done interviews where someone heard my show & I get this email ... actually, it was keyboardist Michael T. Ross who was in Lita Ford's band. I've never heard of Michael T. Ross & he knows that, you know, & he knows he's not a Jordan Rudess household name. But, he sent me an e-mail because he heard the show & wondered if I would be interested. I looked him up & the guy had a great background. Sure. I don't have to know you, because I know who you've been with. 6 degrees of separation. It's good enough for me. Should be good enough for my listeners, you know.

MIKE: Is that like a great feeling when an artist reaches out to you?

AJ: You know what it means? It means someone is recognizing your efforts on some level.

MIKE: Yup.

AJ: It also means they think they can get PR out of you.

MIKE: That's true.

AJ: It is. I mean, he's coming to me because no one knows him. I'm one more PR step for him & there's nothing wrong with that, because that's what you & I do. We share music with the audience. We share people. We share one group of people with another group of people. It's not about you & I. We're just a bridge, you know.

MIKE: You're right.

AJ: But, if someone comes to you it also means that they think your show is good. They think they're going to get something good on your show, too. I don't know about you, but I don't listen to a lot of shows. I listen to you regularly & there's a few others I keep an eye on, but every so often I'll come across one & I like to hear what someone else is doing & how they interview. Some of them are really good & some people out there are really bad. I think the artists do pick up on that. You know, they know where they want to go.

MIKE: You're right about that. I've had so many interviews that afterwards it was like that was horrendous & then you walk with something that was really good, you know. The artists do pick up on it. If you're not able to go back & forth with them & keep a conversation going & bring out all the points they want to hit & get everything that you want to get out of them, it can go south real quick. It's a slippery slope.

AJ: You do a show 2 times a week & have been since the beginning. Why did you give yourself such a big challenge, Mike? Why didn't you start small with a little half hour here or there?

MIKE: That's a good question. In the very beginning I did a show on Sun. with Tommy when he started his program. So when he didn't want to do it anymore, a couple of days later on a Wed. I said let me do a 15 min show. Just to get the feel of it, you know. In the beginning I did a 15 min show on Wed. & a half hour show on Sun.. As the show started moving along & I started getting more guests I started making it 45 minutes, an hour, 90 minutes & I kept expanding. It took about 2 yrs to get up to the 2 hour show on Sun..

AJ: I didn't realize that.

MIKE: If you go back to the early Matinee they are all a half hour long & the Sun. show was an hour. Sometimes I had to cut guests off because of that time frame, so we made it a little bit longer.

AJ: In order to introduce this interview today I went back over all the episodes & made a rough list of all the people you've talked to. Then I had to figure out how most people listening to this would know. You've talked to a lot of folks who are indie or local musicians that a majority of your listeners may or may not know. I looked back, but I didn't pick up on the fact that you did change the time frame. I just was listening to many of them. I wasn't paying attention to the time.

MIKE: It happens, but when you're doing it, you remember the time. Sometimes a half hour can really stretch out if you're having a bad show.

AJ: Then there's other hours, I'm sure you've had this too, where you're with a guest & you're wondering how much longer you can go on because they have nothing to say & you have nothing to ask.

MIKE: I can't say how many times that happened. Sometimes I get so excited about having guests that I overbook & have too many. It's bad in a way, because I find myself doing the same interview week after week or just being bored. That's a bad thing, so I have to start cutting back

I use the word "ah huh" & "we're starting to run out of time". Those are the two famous lines to get a guest off the air when we have nothing to say.

AJ: I have a friend up in Canada who listens to all my interviews he told me that whenever he hears me do "ah huh" I'm about to light a rocket ship with some great question. That's my cue. It's like I'm listening to you & I'm thinking about this & I'm about to ask you the question of your life.

MIKE: Oh god.

AJ: That's what I've been told by a faithful listener of mine.

MIKE: So if I hear "uh huh" I have to start thinking real hard.

AJ: That's right, you're in trouble. But, before I ask you my rocket ship question, Mike, have you ever ... as I just pointed out, this is from a listener ... have you ever gotten feedback from your listeners & you went 'oh gosh, I do that on the air?' You know what I'm asking?

MIKE: Exactly. 2 things I get all the time is slow down when you talk & you got a heavy Brooklyn accent. Those are the 2 things I can't do anything about. I was born in Brooklyn, NY.

AJ: You & Tommy are both Brooklyn guys, right?

MIKE: Yup, both of us are from the same neighborhood, so we can't do anything about the accent. We get excited & we talk fast. I remember I had Tommy Bolan on my show. He played guitar with WARLOCK with Doro for awhile. Tommy is a Brooklyn guy like us & we had him on the show. The 3 of us were talking so fast going back & forth even I couldn't understand what we were saying.

AJ: That's the homeboy thing going on. You know, a couple guys sitting on the park. You're both from the old neighborhood together. You're just talking about the music you love.

MIKE: Exactly. You know, the show is like for us. We're just hanging out, having fun, having a good time & just getting to talk to these great artists. We're not professional DJs. We don't do this for a living. We make no money off this, as you know. It is what it is.

AJ: You probably are in debt for stuff you've bought from the show. An album here or there.

MIKE: Better equipment. It's an expensive hobby.

AJ: It is. It's expensive & it's time-consuming & nobody knows that until they do it & they do it well. For the people who don't do it well & they think you can just get on & blah blah blah for an hour their shows ain't worth listening to. So you got to me all committed. But, I think the results, we may not be rich, but I think they speak for themselves. We're reaching out to people. We're sharing music. We're talking to musicians who need the attention. The results are really valuable on this other level.

MIKE: They are. You're right. There are a lot of shows out there that I think are really great great & I enjoy, like yours, & there are other ones that I don't think it's so great, but I'll never criticize them because I know how much work we put into it. I know that they're doing the same thing. &everybody has their own audience, so I would never say anything bad about another show, because it is hard work. Everybody puts a lot of time into it.

AJ: You know, it's interesting, what you were just saying, we're doing it for ourselves, we're really just talking about the music we like with the people we like & it's just like we're hanging out ... I was watching That Metal Show the other day. I actually don't watch that very often. Yngwie Malmsteen was on it & Chris Jericho from FOZZY. I'm watching the hosts. I'm watching these guys talk about music & I thought to myself, Mike, metal has changed. I'm a kid of the late '80's, you know, & I remember when metal was young & now it's gotten older. So, I'm watching tv & everyone on stage is over 40 yrs old, over 50 years old, a couple of them. I'm watching them thinking 'I remember when it this would have been a bunch of 20 year old guys. Now it's a bunch of middle-aged guys with families. They don't look crazy. They don't have purple hair & they're they're really intelligent. Yet, they're talking about this music that has a whole different stereotype around it. It just really hit me how metal & one part of the fan base has grown up. It's really changed, I think. the way the metal community in the world is. Do you know? Because you're in that community I'm kind of talking about. You've grown up with this music.

MIKE: I agree with you 100%. If you go back to the late '70's, early '80's when it was 1st taking off it never got the respect it deserved back then as music. Today it still doesn't, yet it's one of the genres that's still around & still productive & it's still putting out a lot of music for both the either from the younger fans or the older fans. It's true. Like you said, we're all middle-aged now & we have families, so we don't kinda have that gun ho approach that we used to have when we were kids, but the music is still with us. It's in our hearts & we can never get rid of it. I mean, it's a way. Heavy metal for a real metalhead is a way of life. I mean, we were always a united scene back in the day. We still are today. There are so many heavy metal shows on the internet where I'm friendly with the host & I work with them & I help them out. A good friend Alex Alvarez, a young kid 17-18 years old, had a show called The Diopriest Radio Show.

AJ: I know it.

MIKE: He asked me for advice & to help him with guests. That's what the metal community is about. It's about being united. It's about being together. As you grow up & get older you want to like pass it down to the next generation coming, & that's what a lot of us are doing these days.

AJ: That is true & I don't think people outside of the metal community know that. At the record store I work at in the East Village, Rockit Scientist Records, my boss is always saying that one of the last groups left that still buys an entire album is the metal community. If you want support from a musical community, it's the metal community. You know, we're like united. We support the bands. You're not going to get the same type of support from the Britney Spears community, you know, or the grunge rock alt-rock COLDPLAY community whatever, but the metal community there's like ... I don't know about you, Mike, but I meet someone else & they say to me that they like metal, & that person might be an asshole & maybe we don't agree on anything, but on some level I feel like 'You know what? You like metal, I like metal. Great.' Maybe you like a different part of MEGADETH's career than I do, but it doesn't matter, because on some level we're like kin. We're like brothers. We're in the same musical field.' I don't think any other group really has that. I don't see it. I don't see it with like classical people going 'Oh yes, you like Beethoven, I like Beethoven. Yeah! You rule!' You know, it's not there.

MIKE: Yeah, it's true. Metalheads have always been a close united group. You know we wanted always to further the cause, especially because in the '80's it was all underground. Who would have thought when METALLICA 1st started playing they would be one of the biggest bands in the world today? You would never have thought that back in the '80's. It felt like it was our little thing. You go back the '80's metal was like that & so was rap. Rappers were on the streets. It was underground. It was a different style of music, but we both had the same focus. The rap fans were really loyal. The metal fans were loyal. & we stood with each other. It's carrying on today. I have friends that I met in clubs back in the '80's that I'm still friendly with today because the music has kept us together. The internet has made it a lot easier to connect & keep those bonds. It's a great thing.

AJ: Absolutely. You mentioned earlier that you play a lot of like older bands that have fallen to the cracks or maybe they've been, you know, pushed into that one hit wonder category. Do you pay attention to the newer bands as much?

MIKE: You know, unfortunately I don't. I really don't even give a lot of new bands a chance anymore. I'm so focused on like the music I grew up with. When I first started doing this show I did a segment called The Sunday Night Spotlight. I used that to feature newer bands, younger kids, that are kinda playing in that classic '80's style & sound. It was a great thing. I did that for about a year or so & then I kind of like lost track of that, because it was getting to be difficult trying to find bands every week & contact them to get music. Yeah. I don't really give a lot of new bands a chance, even though I do interview a lot of the newer bands, but that's mostly because of the PR people I deal with & the record companies. I kinda like gotta do them favors & get some of these bands on, but I really don't give them much of a chance. I tell you, there's a band called BRUTE FORCE. I interviewed them today for the next week show. There are a new band & I think these guys are fantastic. So, when you say that it's a shame that I don't give a lot of new bands a chance, that's mostly because of time. You do comes across some good ones & these guys will like that today.

AJ: You know, I've interviewed a lot of folks that have one or 2 albums out. That's another thing with a new band. When you only have one album out or you've only been playing for a few years, its like sometimes I have to stretch to talk about stuff. It's harder to talk to a new band that just released their debut E.P., you know?

MIKE: That's very true. There's not a lot of information out there. You know, what's a shame? With the internet today & this goes for a lot of older bands, you go on to their website & they have nothing on there. They don't really take advantage of the internet like they should. Just to put their information out. It is hard with a new band, because you don't have much to talk about & you are stretching the conversation over the few things you can pick up about them from that E.P..

AJ: It can be really tough & I know you feel this way that you want to present the bands in the best light. I don't curt controversy with any of my musicians. Though, there have been some musicians I have talked to who I knew had something in their career that was controversial & we might even have spoken about it before the show & I asked if they wanted to discuss that. They said it was up to me, but I chose not to. So, you want to present a band in a good light, but if you don't know anything about them & they're fresh out the barn door, it's really sometimes tough to be fair to everyone.

AJ: I think it is. I agree with you 100%. You do the best you can with those ones & hopefully they come far & in between & it's not too bad when it happens. I think the worst thing when interviewing is, is when the whole band wants to come on & you have 4 or 5 members. The worst is they get into a private conversation with themselves & it's like you're not even there. I think that's even worse than having a new band that you don't know much about. It was my second interview, a little group called ICKY'S EGO out of California. I really liked their music & they have some great videos. All 4 of them I was talking to. I had no idea all 4 of them would be there. I thought it would just be the founding husband & wife. I thought that would be it. I get 4 of them & I don't even know who they are until they introduce themselves. I actually had to write their names on a piece of paper & kinda keep track of who I just spoke to & who I asked a question to & who I'd talked to too much or too little. I wanted to be fair. Then the photographer called up. Then someone came into the room. They were on speaker phone so I was wondering who was talking.

MIKE: I know, it's hard, especially when you're on the phone, because you don't know who exactly is talking & if it's people you're not familiar with you don't even recognize their voice. I interviewed the A.N.M. (i.e. ANTI-NIGGER MACHINE). That's the name of the band. It's all black guys in the band, so they can say that. It's Doug Pinnick of KING'S X & members of 24-7 SPYZ, FISHBONE & RWA. I had them all on & after like one question they started talking to each other. It was like they got a free business phone call. The whole half hour was just them talking to each other about when they were getting together, we're they're going on vacation, what are they doing. I'm like, let me know when you're done & I'll do my show after that.

AJ: You'll just be waiting.

MIKE: You know, I've never played back one of my shows. I've never heard one of my shows after I've done them.

AJ: Really? You haven't?

MIKE: I can't listen back to the show. I think I would cringe if I heard myself.

AJ: Well, I do cringe when I listen back as I hear the way I talk & the way I ramble & my particular accent. I don't sound like the guy I think I sound like. While the words never come out the way I think they do. When you're doing live & you're talking off the top of your head, I'm always fumbling my words. It's kinda my personality. I do this normally. You know, if you meet me on the street I normally bumble like this, but there is something about the live thing & having to fill the air. There's a little pressure here, you know, & to get the thoughts out clearly. People may not realize how truly difficult that can be sometimes.

MIKE: It is. I'm the same way. I fumble over what I want to say all the time, because I have so many things bumbling around in my head that I want to get out. I want to mention this & I want to mention that & then I forget to mention it or I mention something else. There's such a short amount of time. I pack these shows with so much music that it doesn't leave a lot of time to talk sometimes, so I try to get it out quickly. You just start fumbling trying to get it out. You never want to hear dead air. That's like the worst thing you can do I feel in radio, so you're always trying to fill it up & it can get hard sometimes.

AJ: Plus, you're looking at the clock. You're looking at the songs. You're thinking 'I have 5 minutes left & this song is 3 minutes 50 seconds.' Plus you're listening to where the interview is going & I'm making the questions up on the spot. You're thinking about what are we talking about & what can we talk about? The mind is in 5 directions at once. The other thing is a few I've been interviewing someone & I realized, shit, I'm not really listening to them. I'm thinking about the clock or the next song. I'm not even hearing them. You know?

MIKE: I've been there, too. You focus on so many other things that sometimes the most important thing takes a backseat. Sometimes I have 2 guests on the show & I want to give them as much time as I can to talk, but I have to kind of get one off to get the next one on. Sometimes I start rattling on. You know, you try to think of nice ways to end it. Then I have Tommy who doesn't really say much for most of the shows, who knows when I'm running late on time & wants to chime in with a 20 min speech. I'm trying to move the show along & it gets hard. The clock, the music, the interviews. Everything is going on in your head & it can get all bottled up sometime, I agree.

AJ: Remember about a half hour ago I think I said there was a rocket ship question coming up, before I lost track of time?

MIKE: Yup.

AJ: Well, my last question for you is that question. Mike, you've been doing your show for 3 yrs & 300 something episodes. You've talked to seemingly everyone or, at least, you're doing a really good job working on it. How is Mike the Big Cheese different today after this experience than he was 3 years ago? How has the show changed you?

MIKE: One step closer to divorce court, cause I spend too much time doing it. I think that's the biggest one. I was very uncomfortable doing the show in the beginning. Talking on the air with my heavy Brooklyn accent. I feel so much more confident & comfortable today than I did 3 years ago. Early on, you feel like you're always the guy on the bottom of the totem pole & people don't think much of you & give you the respect for what you put into the show. I feel like I've earned the respect of record companies & PR people & different manager, where they come to me now & I don't have to go to them anymore. I feel like I've given people a really good dose of what the '80's were all about. I'm proud of myself for doing that. Made a lot of great friends over the years, you included, & I think that's the biggest thing right now for me.

AJ: What have you learned?

MIKE: Definitely make sure you've got money on your credit card to pay blogtalkradio, because they'll knock you right down to a free account & erase all your music. I also learned just to enjoy life & have a great time doing what you're doing & just take advantage of all the opportunities that come with doing this show. To me that's I get to go & meet all these rock stars & talk to them & hang out with them & it's like a thrill. It's almost like being a kid in a candy shop.

AJ: Well, you're reliving your childhood really on some level.

MIKE: Exactly.

AJ: You're having your childhood dreams come true.

MIKE: That's exactly what it is & I'm loving every minute of it.

AJ: You've interviewed so many people. Just this past year I was impressed by hearing your interviews with Rob Halford of JUDAS PRIEST & Lizzy Borden. If someone came up to you tomorrow & gave you the opportunity to name any artist to be on your show, what name would you give as your dream guest or maybe a couple dream guests?

MIKE: It would have been Ronnie James Dio. I was close to getting that done right around when he got sick. I never followed up. It felt s so funny asking, you know, as he was going through his treatments & everything. But, any member of BLACK SABBATH. I'm really close to getting one of them right now. I think Ritchie Blackmore. I would love to talk to him.

AJ: He's on the top of my list. He's one of my personal guitar gods.

MIKE: A friend of mine was like his assistant in the '80's when he was in RAINBOW with Joe Lynn Turner. He's still great friends with him. He's actually a singer in his own band that I've had on my show. I was going to start working on him to see if he could get me in touch with Ritchie. I don't think it will happen. He's very reclusive these days.

AJ: For me, Blackmore is my Hendrix. He's the best.

MIKE: I feel the same way. Maybe we can do an interview together.

AJ: Mike, we're down to the last minute of this show. Is there anything left you'd like to say?

MIKE: Aaron, I think you've covered it all. You've got a great show. Like I said, congratulations on the one year. You've told me a few of the interviews you have lined up & I'm excited to hear them. I can't thank you enough for having me as a part of this. I feel honored that you would even ask me.

AJ: Why not? It's important to talk to people like you. Just because you're not on a stage doesn't mean you're less interesting. Actually, I've been able to ask you more questions than I have some of the musicians,

MIKE: This was great & I had a good time talking with you, too.

AJ: I can't thank you enough for joining me & I know this is a very rare moment when you're on the other side.

"He Always Made Me Feel Like I Was Important" An Interview With NICK DOUKAS

2018-02-10T13:20:00.002-08:00

Feb 2011 (phone)

Since the age of 13 New Yorker Nick Doukas has been honing his high energy rock guitar chops in numerous NY area bands, such as Half Angel & Full Circle (aka Head Case), playing covers & originals. He has studied music theory & guitar at Five Towns College & Nassau Community College &, according to this interview, in one-on-one lessons from guitarists John Petrucci of Dream Theater & Al Pitrelli of Trans-Siberian Orchestra & Megadeth. This was as a teen before either were superstar guitar heroes. Presently, Nick is expanding his musical palette through studying classical guitar with Dr. Nelson Amos, the head of the guitar dept of Eastern Michigan University, where he has been accepted to study for a degree in Music Education. Outside of music he has studied nutrition & life sciences, with extensive experience in the bodybuilding-weight lifting world. This interview focuses on his teenage years as a student of Pitrelli before his career took off via touring the world with Alice Cooper.

For some years I dedicated a lot of energy into researching the musical biography of Al Pitrelli, who might be one of the most under-rated melodic lead players of the last few decades. Nothing ever came of the effort, except new friends & a wealth of new music & musicians I might not have discovered otherwise. I became a fan of Megadeth & post-Wetton Asia because of Al's contributions to these bands, let alone discovered Savatage & Joe Lynn Turner, amongst others via his extensive studio work. Not having any central location for Al's musical output I searched far & wide for whatever I could find. I don't remember how I came across his guitar student, but Nick was happy to spend nearly an hour with me sharing memories of learning with Al before fame arrived & they were essentially 2 young bucks just playing & sharing music they loved. We've remained in contact via Facebook & I've had the opportunity to see Nick post guitar playing videos online, return to music school & play in local bands in his new home of Michigan ... still as passionate about playing those old Van Halen riffs as ever. This interview has never been heard or shared or even excerpted until now. Starting this blog I knew this interview would finally get a home & I only regret it took so long.

* * * * *

AJ: I started researching Al over a year ago & trying to find his place in the musical world. You are the 1st person I've encountered who knows the non-performance side of Al's music career & the early days when he was still a teacher.

NICK: Do you just want me to tell you about my experience?

AJ: Why don't you give me a timeline. I know only a little bit about his teaching years.

NICK: Al used to teach out of a store called Focus II Guitar Center, which was in North Bellmore, Long Island, NY. It was kinda like the guitar shop at the time. I had started playing guitar about 1984 or so & I had studied with another teacher there. I studied for over a year & then I went off on my own & did my thing. I wasn't studying for awhile, but then I started looking for a really good teacher, like a hot rock player. I was into Eddie Van Halen & Randy Rhoads & all those players. I remember going into the shop & going 'Yeah, I'm looking for someone to study with. I don't just want to get any teacher.' The owner is like 'We've got this guy, Al Pitrelli. He's an amazing player.' He told me all this stuff about him. I was like sign me up. I started studying with him late '86, maybe early '87.

AJ: Before he went off on tour with Alice Cooper.

NICK: Way before that. I think that was '89.

AJ: Yeah, that was '89. So, at that point when you met him he was the guy that played with Michael Bolton & had studied at Berklee.

NICK: It was after he'd came back from touring with Michael Bolton. It wasn't long after that. I had heard of him, too. You know, he's a local boy. He was in a band called MAGIC many years ago. Before Michael Bolton, before he went off to Berklee. They used to rehearse in East Meadow & I grew up in East Meadow. They used to rehearse in this ... I can't remember the name of it, but there was video game arcade there. I remember being a young kid, & this was a couple years before I met him & started studying with him, & going to play games there & hearing some music from downstairs. So, anyways, when I first started studying with him it was right after he got back from the tour with Bolton. He was just hanging out & teaching. I remember my first couple lessons with him & as soon as you heard him you knew he was an amazing player.

AJ: Even back then.

NICK: Just really special. I know a lot of hot guitar players & have been around the scene for like 30 years, but as soon as you heard him play it was just a level of professionalism that was above & beyond most people that I heard. I remember that he taught in a little room downstairs in Focus II Studios. They used to have their lesson rooms down in the basement. He had this little 4 track set up with a couple of studio monitors & he used to run a couple of pedals into an old Tom Scholz Rockman amp. I, of course, had to emulate him. I was 19 or so & he was about 23. So, I bought the 4 track & the Rockman. It actually had a great little sound. What he used to do, is he used to record. Actually, I still have a bunch of those old cassettes. I came across them not that long ago in my attic. He used to record for me on the 4 tracks. He'd record for me on one track a clean guitar & then he'd record a hot lead over there. Then he would tell me to take it home & pop it in my player & just play over what he played & try & work with it & stuff. That was like a really really cool thing. Like I said, I still have a bunch of those tapes with a bunch of his jams & stuff, just playing leads. He would just play like different rhythms in different keys & different modes.

AJ: Real basic stuff.

NICK: Yeah, basic stuff but everything he played was cool. Even the basic stuff just sounded great. I always remember that. That was really cool. He'd give me stuff to work on. I'd ask him to show me leads from Eddie Van Halen or Randy Rhoads or George Lynch. We'd take stuff apart. I remember he had a lot going on during those 4 years I studied with him. He was good friends with Steve Vai. Vai wanted him to play with David Lee Roth after he left. So, I remember when he had the audition. He had a cool picture of him & [Roth's bassist] Billy Sheehan hanging out. Then he was playing with [bassist] Bruno Ravel [of DANGER DANGER] for awhile. He was also playing with [bassist] Randy Coven [later of Yngwie Malmsteem & Steve Vai's band] quite a bit. He did some really cool instrumental stuff with him. I remember going to see him with Randy a couple times. I would try to go round & see him in whatever he did locally.

AJ: Of course.

NICK: I remember he played in a band HOTSHOT with singer named Mike Pont [who also sang with DANGER DANGER]. I remember seeing him in all the old NY clubs in the 80's. That was such a great time for original bands on Long Island. I remember he was such a great player & he had a good amount of opportunities, but it never really took off, you know. Then after I'd been studying with him for awhile he started teaching out of his house.

AJ: In Long Island?

NICK: He was in North Port, Long Island, probably around '88 or so. As I said to you, too, I also studied with John Petrucci in King's Park, Long Island, when John was teaching out of his parents house.

AJ: It was a small world out there in Long Island.

NICK: I didn't go out there for too long, but I'll never forget the point right before Al got the Alice Cooper gig & he literally said to me, 'I don't know what I'm going to do.' He was talking to his father-in-law at the time about going into carpentry, because he didn't know what was going to happen to him. Which is crazy, because the guy is so talented.

AJ: But, that's the world of music. It really is.

NICK: Sometimes it doesn't matter. Sometimes the most basic players become the most famous, while the people are more technically talented don't really get noticed. But, you're right, that is the world of music. I assume you're a musician, too.

AJ: I play a little bass & guitar & I also work in a record store in the East Village here in Manhattan. I know the scene. It's the luck of the draw almost.

NICK: Absolutely. That was the thing. I remember he didn't know what to do. You know the thing is, he had success. It's not like nobody knew who he was. He had toured with Bolton.

AJ: But, it was a bit regional.

NICK: Yeah, not enough.

AJ: It was smaller stuff.

NICK: Then he got the Alice Cooper gig. I remember when he told me he got hired to be Alice's musical director & go on the road with him. That was that. That was the last time I saw him. I went off to study with Petrucci at that point for awhile. I was a music major in college. I remember starting to see ads & interviews in mags with Al. Then ASIA & MEGADETH. I've followed him over the years the best I could. It's a lot easier with the internet & I started to hear more about him, particularly via youtube, which is a great resource.

AJ: Have you ever watched the video of the tour with Alice, the Trashes The World video?

NICK: No, I never did.

AJ: Because, if you did I wanted to ask what it was like seeing Al on stage, suddenly catapulted from guitar teacher to touring at all the big venues with the legendary Alice.

NICK: Let's put it this way: I still play. I'm a professional musician. I still play guitar every day, play in bands, record. But, I've always said who my guitar teacher was. I remember seeing on the internet a video of Al. It was from that what you told me about. It was a video of him doing a guitar solo going into the song "Poison".

AJ: That was Al's big spotlight moment.

NICK: I remember coming across that on youtube & commenting that 'I was very fortunate to study with Al.' You'd see a bunch of people responding that this was amazing & could you tell more about it. It was always nice to say that was my teacher, somebody who was that famous. Then the TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA thing came around & I didn't really know at first that that was him. My wife had heard the stuff & thought it was really cool. She was telling me 'You'll love it. It's orchestral Xmas music but with great lead guitar.' Then I realized who it was. I looked into the background of it & saw he'd been working with Jon Oliva & SAVATAGE. I have all the TSO albums. We bring them out at Xmas. I've figured out some of his licks. It's great stuff.

AJ: I'll confess I'm a big 80's rock guy, so I'm more of a SAVATAGE fan as I like things grittier & heavier.

NICK: I'm a little more on the melodic side. I like my music heavy, but I like the melodies. The stuff TSO plays really appeals to me.

AJ: To me the album just before TSO, SAVATAGE's DEAD WINTER DEAD, Al's debut with them, is one of the best melodic prog rock albums out there. That's the album that bred TSO.

NICK: Yes, it's very prog rock with its concepts. It's all very cool stuff.

AJ: Before Al SAVATAGE was very different. TSO would be very different without him, too.

NICK: That's the other thing about Al. He's not just a guitar player. He's so much of a musician. Obviously, guitarists are musicians, but its his composition skills, the way he composes. I remember when I was studying with him he had written that song "Temptation." I thought it was a cool pop rock song. Then all of a sudden he told me Y&T was going to record it. I thought that was really cool. I remember him telling me he'd been back & forth with frontman Dave Meniketti. I remember when the album Temptation came out with the song. I remember Al playing me the original demo in the rehearsal room, just popping in the cassette. Just this little basic version of it. To me, whatever the guy played, just everything he played just sounded huge & authoritative & just really cool. I mean, I was a young kid & obviously very influenced. But, even to this day when I hear him play I know I was very lucky to have a great player like him teach me.

AJ: Obviously it's been like 20 years, but when you listen to him now & you think back, do you notice an observable difference in his playing? Does anything jump out?

NICK: I can hear how much he's matured. I think he's less ... First of all, the guy is a great shredder. Technically, he's an amazing player with the speeds & chops. But, he was always more melodic. That was something that he taught me when I was a kid. In fact, Gary Moore just died recently.

AJ: I know.

NICK: He was a big Gary Moore fan. I was never that into him, but Al turned me on to his cover of the YARDBIRDS' "Shapes Of Things". The solo on that is really cool. I remember back in the day Al saying to me he was going to teach me that lead because it was the perfect combination of chops & feel. That sort of summed it up for me on what he was about. Yeah, he's about the chops & the flash, for sure, but at the heart of it he's got a lot of melody. I can say his playing today is the same, but yet it's not. I hear today the same guy, but he's really matured. Not even that, as he was a great player back then.

AJ: I understand.

NICK: The guy was a technical wiz even 25 years ago. But, I think about what he always tried to show me back then about being melodic & about making sure whatever you were playing still fit the tune & wasn't just a bunch of flashy licks. He was very modal. He was really into the modes & how each one has its own mood & how it works against whatever the chords are. He would always show me that stuff. I came across his Star Licks instructional video & he's kinda doing the same thing. It was very similar. It reminded me of being in lessons with him where he was very into how stuff works melodically & modally & how things works against particular chord constructions or particular chord progressions. Another thing about Al that was pretty cool was that he had a really cool personality. A very cool laid back guy. Very funny. He was always very encouraging to me, too. Like I always felt, when I went to have lessons with him ... like I know there are people out there who would accuse him of having an ego or whatever, but I never found that with the guy. He was always so encouraging to me. He always made me feel like I was important, not just some other kid he was teaching. He'd always give me compliments. Not just some blanket bullshit compliment. He would notice things, like "You played that passage really well because of this or whatever. I notice your picking is really coming along. You can pick like the Yngwie kind of thing." I'd really appreciated that. He was always very encouraging & very nurturing as a teacher. That's why I stuck with him for so long. As I said, it was a good 4 years I was with him & I had a lot of other teachers in there besides Al & John Petrucci. I had several other people that I studied with it, but it was always Al that was my main influence. He was also really into everything I was into. You could sit down with him & talk about Randy Rhoads, talk about Eddie Van Halen, talk about Paul Gilbert of MR. BIG, talk about Yngwie. He got it. He was that kind of guy. He was always really cool & always willing to talk about anything to do with guitars. You know the guy loves the instrument & I was the same way. I was always very excited to go to my lesson & always very motivated. I can't even tell you how invaluable his instruction was & how much I learned from him.

AJ: Well, all these years later you're still playing guitar & still making music. There's the proof. Is there anything Al has taught you that comes out a lot today when you're playing?

NICK: Yeah, just the melody. Just being able to get in there & not only play a bunch of notes, but to put something melodic together. Something that just sounds musical. That's kinda how I am. Whenever I'm improvising something or listening to a chord progression to play over that's what always comes to mind. Yeah, I could throw in a bunch of flashy licks & I do, but I always remember the most important thing is the melody & the feel & having a really good vibrato. Things like that. Those are the things that he taught me that are just invaluable. Like teaching me appreciation. I like guys like Yngwie & Paul Gilbert, but teaching me appreciation for somebody like Neal Schon of JOURNEY, whose also a great player, but you listen to his licks on "Faithfully" or the solo on "Don't Stop Believin'" & its the not the most technical thing ever, but it just sounds beautiful, authoritative & melodic. To me, that's what Al was all about, how important that is. I can't tell you how many shredders I hear that just sound like a frickin' typewriter.

AJ: I know what you mean.

NICK: There's just something lacking. Also, I think that constant shredding, its almost like all emphasis equals no emphasis. I prefer to hear, like in a 10 or 16 bar guitar solo, a build. That's another Al taught me. A guitar solo itself is its own little composition, you know? You're really thinking about where you are going to go with it, building on it, dynamics, melody, speed, how you're going to end it. Al taught me to think very compositionally as a guitarist. I think that was probably one of the biggest things I got from him.

AJ: I'm reminded that a couple days ago it was George Harrison's birthday. I'm a big fan of his & always loved his solos. His solos, to paint it broadly, were like 10 notes. The most sparse solos in the history of music, but you always felt like every note was important. Versus a lot of the shredding or whatever that's out there now where it's just notes for the sake of playing a lot of fast notes. Speed is the most important thing, not the melody or anything else you mentioned. You know, Tony Iommi didn't play fast, but melodic & that's what made BLACK SABBATH so untouchable. But, we don't follow his lead enough.

NICK: Absolutely. I hear a lot of bands nowadays with what I call those Cookie Monster vocals. To me, if you're going to have heavy heavy music you need some sort of melodic edge over that or else it all starts to sound the same. It all starts to sound like noise. That's what I have always like about that 80's metal or even the classic rock bands like QUEEN or JOURNEY or LED ZEPPELIN. You had this heavy music, but you had a melodic vocal over it, because you need something beautiful to go with the heavy pounding ugly. You know what I mean?

AJ: I listen to a lot of heavy metal, but honestly so much of it bores me for the reason you're saying. It's all riffs with no contrast. The melody lifts a heavy riff into something else. The technical playing isn't enough. I'm bored with it.

NICK: That's the thing! When I was a kid it was always like whose technically the best, whose the fastest, who this or that. As I got older I started to realize that its not really all about that. It's about individual style. It's about tone. Like I said, your vibrato technique. I'd rather hear a guy like Eric Johnson who has beautiful tone & vibrato & the note choices, then somebody like ... not that I don't have a lot of respect for METALLICA, but it's not my type of guitar playing. It think its kinda shrill. I don't like the note choices. But, that's just personal preference. To me, Pitrelli is exactly what I'm talking about. The speed & technique is there & he's flying, but then he just drops one note & just makes it sting for some seconds. That's the type of playing that I dig & what he was always all about. Like I said, from the very first time I heard him play & the very first time I had a lesson with him, I was impressed. There's something intangible about what he does, but it speaks to you, you know what I mean?

AJ: Absolutely. Let me ask, how did learning from Al compare to someone like John Petrucci?

NICK: Petrucci was very cool too. He was a really nice guy. He had a similar personality to Al, just very encouraging & a very good guy, but he was a little more technical. John was a little more about the exercises.

AJ: What about any of your teachers? You mentioned you had a few over the years.

NICK: My first teacher was a great player & nice guy & really into southern rock, ALLMAN BROTHERS & classic stuff. I remember he had a brown Les Paul. He used to come to my house. I was about 15 when I first started taking lessons. By the time I started studying with Al I was more on the intermediate level, although when I went in with Al I still wasn't that hot. Over the couple years I studied with him that's when I first started to blossom.

AJ: How's your playing now, Nick?

NICK: I think it's pretty good. I don't practice the way I used to. But, I built such a foundation as a kid that at this time its sort of self-propelling. I sometimes feel like I'm a little stagnant. But, it doesn't really matter, because if I play for you or someone, you haven't heard me for the last 15 years to compare. I would like to have more time to be able to study again & progress a little. But, I think I built such a good foundation back then because it was my whole life. From the age of about 15 to about 25 music was all I did. I was so inspired by reading about guys like Paul Gilbert or Van Halen. He used to practice 8-10 hours a day & that's what I did. I remember it came to a point that I would play things & almost feel like how did I do that? Like it sounded authentic, you know. So, as far as how does Al compare to other teachers, I had a few other guys. I studied with this guy named Peter Green.

AJ: I'll assume not the Peter Green, the founder of FLEETWOOD MAC.

NICK: No. Actually, this guy used to have ads in all the guitar magazines. He used to have a thing I think was called Metal Method. He basically had a series of instruction tapes of lessons he did. I studied with him for awhile. He was a nice guy & good player, but not particularly inspiring. There was a point where I was studying with him & Al at the same time, because I was so hardcore I had to have 2 teachers. The other thing was Al would sometimes go out on the road. He wasn't always around, so I'd go off & find somebody else, but I'd always come back to him. He was always my favorite teacher. Of all the teachers I had, Al & Petrucci were obviously the best.

AJ: Was John in DREAM THEATER at the time?

NICK: Absolutely. This was about 1989. He was in DREAM THEATER & they had a couple of records out, but it was in the time when their original singer Charlie Dominici left. They were auditioning guys. I remember him telling me they brought a guy out from Seattle & he was staying in his house. DREAM THEATER was around & doing their thing, but they had not become ... they were still local. They hadn't quite had their chance.

AJ: Did Al ever instruct you any when it came to gear, like what guitar or strings or amp?

NICK: We talked about that stuff. I mean, I was at the time ... you have to remember, too, in the '80's you didn't have the Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier amp.

AJ: Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

NICK: I've got a 15 year old amp I'm running right now that sounds great. I'm pretty basic in the effects dept.. I don't like having a lot of processing devices.

AJ: I understand.

NICK: I like that Eddie Van Halen brown sound. But, I remember always looking for the tone. At the time I had a couple old Marshall amp heads. That was probably like a 1985 or so & I had a head from the 70's. It was an old one with the blueish-gray kinda panel on it. It was like the black ones like they have now. I had them modified actually a bit. Back in the '80's all the rage was having the extra gain stage. He used to tell me that's kind of a good thing to do. I don't know if he hooked me up with this guy or if I might have found him on my own, but I took my head to this guy & had them modified. It sounded great. Al & I used to talk gear & stuff. He used to have this awesome old black Schecter guitar.

AJ: I don't know what that is.

NICK: It's like an ESP. It's a brand name. He had this really cool black Schecter Strat. I just remember its action. I like my action low. I like my action right on the fretboard. He was the same way. I remember playing that guitar. We would trade. I had this blue ESP & I would give it to him. I remember how nice that Schecter was. It had super low action & felt really nice to play. So, we talked a lot about that sort of thing, about the guitars & the amps & stuff. We definitely got into a lot of that.

AJ: I want to know, what are you doing now? What's your music gig now?

NICK: Honestly, right now I don't have too much time. What I'm doing right now is just working on some original stuff. I have my Marshall set-up down in my basement. I went & got myself one of those nice little pod forms that plugs right into the computer. So, I can plug my guitar right into the computer. I got myself a little recording program. I try to do some instrumental stuff. I'm not really sure if I'd like to be in a cover band again. I actually have a good time playing rock covers with a really good band. I was in a band called FULL CIRCLE for many years. They're still around, but they have a whole new line-up. I played with them throughout the '90's. It was a was a cover band doing all kinds of stuff, everything from VAN HALEN to AEROSMITH to Pat Benatar. We had a female singer. We did '80's & '90's stuff. You know, I love the '80's music, but I try not to be too rooted in the past. I like a lot of new stuff, too, but, there isn't really that much out there for me. It's either that nu-metal shit or ... There's a band called HALESTORM that I just discovered. They've got a girl singer, but they're straight up 4 piece hard rock. It just sounds like '80's rock.

AJ: There's a few of them out there.

NICK: There's just not that many bands with the sound I like. I jam with some friends locally. I'm thinking right now my options are maybe either looking to join a really cool cover band or I'll put together one. It's really got to be something good. It's got to be top-notch. I'm not looking to do dance music or pop. I'm looking to do JOURNEY, VAN HALEN, HEART. That's the thing. Not always hard to find a great bass player. Not always hard to find a great drummer or keyboard player or whatever. But, when it comes to vocals, you know.

AJ: That's the worst.

NICK: Plus, you're doing cover stuff. Find me a female singer that can sing like Ann Wilson of HEART or Pat Benatar spot on. It's hard to find.

AJ: That can kill the band before it gets started.

NICK: Absolutely. I was in this band & we had this chick singer. She was okay. She could sing some stuff well. We were doing a couple Benatar songs. She just couldn't cut it. You could hear it. She didn't have the pipes. She didn't have the power. That was the thing that always burned my ass. The band sounded great. The music was perfect, but the vocals didn't quite cut it.

AJ: I had that in a band I was playing in. We had both a guy & girl singer. She didn't know what it meant to count into the song, but she had a good voice.

NICK: It makes you feel like you're putting in extra work.

AJ: Her tone was great, but it wasn't functional. Then the guy was so caught up in being a singer he would never show up or do any writing. We ended up playing instrumentals until we died. Without a good singer we didn't have all the pieces, though we had some good riffs. It was the Achille's heal, you know?

NICK: Absolutely. That's how I feel. So, if I could find the right situation with someone who could hit that stuff. Doing stuff like JOURNEY & BOSTON I would say it's even harder to find a male singer. At the very least, if I can find a good female singer she can do Benatar & we'll let her try her hand at JOURNEY.

AJ: She can hit you with her best shot.

NICK; That's one of my favorite tunes, that's why I mention her. That's me. I don't pretend to be a jazz player. I'm a hard rock guitar player. That's what I put all my time & energy into being. I love that stuff. I never get bored of that stuff & these type of guitar players. I mean, you listen to some of Schon's licks in JOURNEY. It gives me chills.

AJ: So many of those bands are being rediscovered, too. I'm hearing that older influence more & more in music now.

NICK: I agree with you. I see a lot of youtube videos with young kids playing Randy Rhoads, Joe Satriani, Van Halen.

AJ: A lot of that music vanished & now it's back.

NICK: You know what they say, man, you can't kill rock'n'roll. That's the thing. Maybe not so much anymore, as things have changed so much with the internet & the ability to put your own music out & be heard, but when I was a kid you were paying thousands in dollars for studio time for a shitty little demo. Now you can have the tools at home to make professional quality recordings that you can instantly upload to the internet to be heard by thousands of people. To me its changing, but the music industry is very cyclical. It goes on a 10 year cycle. You had the '80's stuff between new wave & hard rock. Then you had the grunge bands. It's almost like the decades start out with really talent bands & then all the shit comes along with worse & worse versions of this music. It's so watered down & people get so sick of it that they kill it. That's what happened in the '90's with Kurt Cobain in his old dirty sweater looking like he just got out of bed with a shitty guitar. He single-handedly killed all those pretty boys with the hair & make-up.

AJ: I totally agree. Though, I was never into NIRVANA until after the band ended, as I was still listening to TWISTED SISTER.

NICK: I remember SISTER even before MTV. I saw them play at a local roller rink. Their really old stuff is really some of their best stuff, when they didn't really have any albums out.

AJ: Speaking of which, after you stopped learning from Al Pitrelli, I think, that's when he went to WIDOWMAKER with Dee Snider? That was '91, after his gig with Alice Cooper.

NICK: Yeah, that was after. I remember hearing about it & I remember they played at a local club. I didn't see them. I don't remember why. I remember hearing Al was with Dee for awhile.

AJ: They're really good albums. Very heavy, very much not TWISTED SISTER hard rock, but more heavy metal. Al had a big influence writing the second album. Did you ever see Al play with bassist Randy Coven?

NICK: When I was still studying with him I saw them do a gig together locally. It was amazing. Absolutely awesome. So much great instrumental stuff from their albums.

AJ: Sammy Says Ouch! & Funk Me Tender.

NICK: Randy was just an amazing bass player. I'm a big fan of those style of bassists & even a bigger fan of those bands where you a guitarist & bassist doing that kind of crazy shit together, like MR. BIG.

AJ: I was just going to suggest them.

NICK: That's exactly the kind of stuff that I love. So, I loved seeing him with Randy Coven. I thought those couple albums were very cool. Another bass player buddy of his was Bruno Ravel.

AJ: From HOTSHOT & DANGER DANGER.

NICK: Andy Timmons took over from Al in DANGER DANGER. Another great guitarist.

AJ: Yes. I actually have the HOTSHOT album featuring the early demos by DANGER DANGER with Al & recorded in his grandmother's basement. Vocalist Mike Pont released that stuff in 2005. You listen to this stuff from '88, but they're playing as good as ever. Just young kids in their 20's & already up there on the top of their game.

NICK: That's the thing. You asked me how much did I notice Al changed or whatever. Aside from maybe some stylistic choices, he was as hot as he was going to be at 23 years old. Al was already amazing.

AJ: There are a lot of guitar players who you can hear change over the years, like Eric Clapton from the YARDBIRDS to his most recent solo stuff it's almost not the same guy.

NICK: You're right. Some guitar players are like that. To me, when I hear Al now he doesn't really sound that different. His style & licks now sound very similar to the past. If anything, I think he's even more melodic than he used to be. His chops are in there, but he keeps the stuff in the pocket. It just sounds so good when he goes from like a nice sound melody very smoothly into a fast lick & right back into some melody. He's probably more adept at that now. He was probably a little more shred back then. Not that he can't do it now, but I bet he chooses to be a little more laid back.

AJ: There's something I read on a lot of fan blogs & forums about his one album with MEGADETH, The World Needs A Hero, that he never fit in exactly because he wasn't thrashy & wild enough.

NICK: I can see that.

AJ: I don't know if you've heard that album.

NICK: You know, I really didn't listen to it much. I've heard him play with MEGADETH via some videos, but I've got to admit I've haven't really listened too much to the album. Al took over from Marty Friedman. Marty is a really good thrash player, but he was always a little bit too technical for me. I can see how Al might not ... I think he can fit into anything he wants & I haven't heard enough, but I can see how folks might criticize it a little bit.

AJ: It's not a criticism of his playing, just the context.

NICK: Especially from the hardcore thrash fans who might not appreciate his melodic playing as much.

AJ: I'm a big MEGADETH fan. I prefer them over METALLICA.

NICK: I'm not a big fan of either band. I have a lot of respect for both of them. Just because I don't like something that much doesn't mean I don't respect the musician or the music. With METALLICA you just take one look at the band & you know what a good band they are. As far as me, I'm very poppy. I like my hard rock. I like it hard. I like that hard flashy guitar playing, but that's why I always like VAN HALEN. With VAN HALEN you still had melodic tunes & the riffs are still catchy, like "Dance The Night Away." It instantly catches my ear.

AJ: But, then, you're talking about Eddie Van Halen, who at once was called the world's greatest guitar player.

NICK: The thing about Eddie is he's a massive innovator. He single-handedly brought a certain sound to the guitar world. He also changed the instrument itself, as before him you had the Les Paul players or whoever. I have a custom built guitar made by a local guy inspired by Eddie. The right tone, the right sound. That's the thing for me. It's kind of effortless to play.

AJ: You find that guitar or set-up you really like & that's it.

NICK: Absolutely.

"Jordan Rudess With Dave Mustaine Live On Stage" An Interview With "METAL" DAN SORBER of FEROX CANORUS

2018-01-15T07:27:00.001-08:00

July 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #21)

New Jersey band Ferox Canorus is a progressive-power heavy metal band with an emphasis on melody that formed in 2004. They are fronted by guitarist "Metal" Dan Sorber, who is also a music teacher & music writer for various online educational sites. A year after this interview the band renamed themselves Thy Kingdom Done. While Dan has since moved to South Carolina & as a real estate uses what he discusses in this interview about the business-side of music.

I'd stumbled upon Ferox Canorus while writing my blog of music reviews & contacted Dan. I not just liked the music but came to appreciate his point of view that was honest with the realities of the hassle of playing music. I asked him on my Roman Midnight Music Radio Show to discuss this aspect of music particularly to have a more educational interview.

* * * * *

AJ: Dan, we've talked a lot on e-mail. It is a pleasure to finally get a chance to sit & talk with you for an hour.

DAN: The pleasure is all mine, Aaron. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity.

AJ: Sharing music with with folks like yourself who are struggling or just starting out, personally, is some of the most enlightening talks that I get to have. So, it's more my pleasure than you may realize to have you here.

DAN: Alright, let's see where this goes.

AJ: Dan, you've gigged in N.J. & you've been doing stuff for a while, but folks outside of the region aren't necessarily going to be so familiar with your group. Would you mind just giving me a little insight into who is FEROX CANORUS?

DAN: We're a 5 piece from N.J.. We gig pretty extensively within the tri-state area, but like you said, we haven't really done much outside of the region. So, I guess for people who are new to us, maybe the closest comparison I can make is IRON MAIDEN meets DREAM THEATER, might be somewhat in the right ball park. We tend to have this sound where we draw from a lot of influences, so we kind of sound like everybody but nobody at the same time. If that makes sense to you? This songs sounds like IRON MAIDEN or this sounds like METALLICA, but you can't really ... I don't really think there's anybody that quite sounds like us. I mean, I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but this is something I've purposely set out to do. Familiar, yet unfamiliar.

AJ: Dan, you're the guitar player, but are you also a songwriter or do backup vocals or anything else in the band?

DAN: Primary songwriter. I'm not the only one. I mean, pretty much everybody has input into how a song goes & ultimately turns out, but as far as generating probably most of the ideas that actually end up being a song, I guess I would say I'm the primary songwriter.

AJ: You get the burden on your shoulders.

DAN: It's the fun burden, though. It's the marketing-business aspect that's more frustrating than writing the music.

AJ: Before we go any further there's 2 things I have to ask you. A very very important question. One is, can you tell us where people can go online to find out about FEROX CANORUS. The second question is, what does the name mean?

DAN: Right ... right ... that's a difficult question.

AJ: You knew it was coming.

DAN: I knew it was coming, of course. First, we've got a couple of sites. Facebook & Reverb Nation would be our primary sites. On the Reverb Nation page you can actually stream songs. When I made this interview an event on Facebook I kinda mentioned there would be a little bit of a surprise for the listeners. One of the surprises is our songs have been streamed only, ever since we released the demo, but I've made everything for download now. If you go to that Reverb Nation page you can download everything. That's both demos & live tracks. A little something for people to get their teeth into.

AJ: Excellent. So they can actually get the music & come back to it on their own time.

DAN: Get the music & spread it around. You know, they are demos & that's something I really need to point out. We've had some line-up changes, so while the spirit is the same, the outcome is going to be different when we finally get our first full-length album out. The demos are gonna go bye-bye once that is done, so get them while you can.

AJ: Goodbye to the past.

DAN: Goodbye to the past. We're just going to rip those those chapters out & keep writing.

AJ: We're going to talk about what you're doing now a little bit later in this hour. For now, tell me, when did FEROX CANORUS get started & how did it get started?

DAN: Before I answer that, let me go back & answer what does the name mean.

AJ: I'm sorry, I jumped ahead.

DAN: FEROX CANORUS is a phrase derived from Latin. Ferox being the word for spirited or warlike & wild. Canorus is the word for harmony. The name quite literally translates to wild & harmonious, which i think is a pretty good description of what we do.

AJ: Alright. Now, how did what you do get started?

DAN: The band started as a 3 piece in 2004. I actually wasn't involved at that point. The 3 original members were knocking around N.J. for a while & ultimately parted ways. About 2 years ago they decided to reform & that's when I came on board. We kinda began re-writing old material & writing new material. It was about that time I brought a keyboard player into the game. My drummer came on then, as the original one had left for personal reasons. While the other vocalist & guitarist was originally the bassist. We just keep adding instrumentation. I felt the early stuff was kind of limited. I do have demos from that really early period & I'd be embarrassed to show them to you. One mic in the middle of the room.

AJ: You e-mailed me about those. We'll do a trade of the demos from my band where those recordings will really make you shriek with a mic ... on the side of the room.

DAN: You ever hear of the band 3 INCHES OF BLOOD?

AJ: I have.

DAN: Our original singer sounded like that guy. It was just a completely different feel from what we do now. We're going in a different direction, but the heart is still there.

AJ: Is going in a new direction a deliberate decision or did it come through line-up change or is it a natural progression of what you were doing?

DAN: I would say it's more of a natural progression. It's funny, because we haven't really released anything, yet this band has expanded so much since it started. Originally, the songs were a lot shorter & not nearly as complex as they are now. We just kept expanding naturally. We've never tried to force anything. We've come a long way. I've been through more singers & guitar players than I care to remember. It's tough, man, especially when you've got the kinda of music we do, because in N.J. the real popular stuff is death metal & technical death metal & some of the hardcore stuff. We're in the opposite end of the spectrum from that. Even just trying to find people who want to do this style of music is tough. It's been hard getting the right match.

AJ: Plus, location, time & commitment & all those other wonderful things that come into play.

DAN: Running a rock band is probably the best exercise in frustration that you can ever have. It's rough, because you're working with so many different personalities & music being an art. Everybody has their own take on this art. Really, to be successful as a rock band you need to pull together & be able to work toward a common goal. I've seen so many people that just ... I don't know ... almost refuse to do that & it just becomes impossible for the band to work on a fundamental level, let alone releasing an album & touring & doing all that fun stuff that's associated with it.

AJ: I know from my own personal experience exactly what you're talking about. I was working with a singer in a band who could sing & write competently, but wanted the feeling of being in a band more & didn't actually want to write or rehearse or even ever sing. He didn't come to work. He thought the party would just be there waiting because he was in a band & being in a band made him special. He didn't realize that the reason we never got beyond the rehearsal room & found those parties was partly because of him.

DAN: That's exactly it. They are so against doing anything they actually drag the rest of the band down with them, so you never get anything done. FEROX CANORUS isn't the only band I've been in. I've been knocking around the N.J. scene for awhile & I tend to find 2 types of musicians. One is the person that really means well & is really willing to work hard to make the band work, but unfortunately doesn't have the talent for at all. On the other end is the person who is just so full of themselves they need it done their way. It's really hard finding that right person willing to work at the talent & isn't even gonna butt heads with everybody too much.

AJ: I want to talk about one of your songs for a moment. The demos you have are now about a year old &, as you said, will pop out of existence hopefully in the near future. One of my favorites is the song "Dark Night."

DAN: That's a popular one.

AJ: Is it?

DAN: That tends to be our opener during live shows & it gets a pretty good response. I think it's us in a nutshell.

AJ: The Batman title also draws one's attention.

DAN: It draws attention, but believe it or not, it's not about Batman.

AJ: There's 3 things that really stand out to me & they stood out to me when I first heard it a year ago. It's that riffing on guitar that you're doing. That IRON MAIDEN riff against those DREAM THEATER keyboard runs, to quote you, alongside this unique angular singing style. Angular is the only word I can think of. It's 3 incredibly contrasting approaches all slammed together. That's what just jumps right out at me when I hear your stuff.

DAN: That's an example of everybody's different influences within the band just sort of pulling together, you know, to create a whole that's greater than the sum. I love working with these guys. All of them are fantastic musicians. We pull influences from from everywhere & somehow we just make it work. I mean, there's a certain magic to it I will never be able to describe.

AJ: So, how different is "Dark Night" from what you're working on now?

DAN: I think we get a little bit more ambitious in terms of song structure. One of the things, a common theme that runs through the songs, is just they're all kinda energetic. They have their slow parts & things like that, but generally they're usually high-energy. We've kicked that up a notch with a few of the newer songs. One of the things I've always tried to do with the band is to be sort of borderline progressive. Get as close to that line as I can without really crossing over it & getting to the point where some bands get very over indulgent, like long extended solo sections. That's not what we're trying to go for, but we definitely get a little bit more ambitious with song structure. We got a new one we're working on that ... This is funny. Every time we go to practice we can't remember the arrangement, so it gets like re-written all the time.

AJ: I"ve been a prog-rock fan for half my life from the day I heard YES. I had never heard so many sounds & layers in one song, but I do know what you mean by over indulgent. I've noticed as I've gotten older too many bands aim for a 20 minute song, even if after 3 minutes the thing falls apart & could happily end. They don't have enough to say for 20 minutes, but are trying to be proggy for the sake of it.

DAN: Yeah, that's exactly what we try to avoid. You've heard the band DRAGONFORCE?

AJ: I've actually seen them a couple times.

DAN: I get a kick out of them. I like the band, but sometimes I'll be listening to the song & I'll forget which one I'm listening to. They go into those heavy solo sections & you lose the song. You have to wait for the vocals to kick back in.

AJ: Absolutely. They're all into the guitar flash, but sometimes to the detriment of the song itself & the uniqueness of the song.

DAN: We want every song to have its own personality, it's own individualism. At the same time, I want you to listen to it & know it's FEROX CANORUS, just like when you hear an IRON MAIDEN song. From the first few notes off the guitar you know who it is. We want the songs to stand apart, too. I think this is one thing that we tend to do that a lot of metal bands don't do so well. People who are not musicians may not be able to follow me on this next thing, but we write in different keys. You, as a musician, understand this.

AJ: Rock & metal has a comfort zone when it comes to just using a handful of keys & little else. Stuff easy to play on guitar. But, its interesting that in other interviews I've had, musicians mention how they hear the same thing over & over on the same album.

DAN: Look at AC/DC. It's the same thing over & over. It's like 3 keys & 4 chords. They do more with those 4 chords than most bands, though. They raised the bar.

AJ: A bass line for them is like 4 notes per song just repeated & all the bass lines are the same.

DAN: I don't think I could write decades worth of songs based on only that. We try to go for different keys in every song, keys you don't generally hear metal songs in. That's part of what I think makes each song stand apart from some other things that are in the same genre. We're all over the place. Each key sounds a little bit different. It's about trying to capture what that key is giving you.

AJ: & where you can take it.

DAN: Exactly, exactly. I'll experiment with different risks & different ideas in every single key, just to see what it sounds like. Sometimes the original was better, but sometimes you hit on something & it sounds way better.

AJ: Before FEROX CANORUS were you playing this style of music or were you doing other things? What's your musical background?

DAN: Not really. The band is almost an entity unto its own, at this point. My style has developed as I've been in this band. When I came into the band they taught me what songs they had & I began working with them & just really kind of absorbed what they had. I was like, let me see where I can take this. The longer I worked on it the more it started to become my style. I started incorporating a lot of the elements that made them what they were back in 2004 into my own style. This band has possessed me. Before that I played in a lot of thrash metal bands.

AJ: This certainly is not thrash.

DAN: This ain't thrash, nope.

AJ: Its the DREAM THEATER version of thrash. Jordan Rudess with Dave Mustaine live on stage.

DAN: That is something I would pay to see.

AJ: I'm sure a lot of people would. The big 5. This may seem like an obvious question to you, but there's a lot of people partaking this interview spread out across the globe. When they look at our part of the country here, the N.Y. & N.J. area, they likely think all the music is the same across the area. But, for you & I, we know that to talk about about the N.Y. music scene is not necessarily to talk about N.J. scene. The N.J. music scene is very different from Brooklyn, but the farther you get from our region then those distinctions blur. Can you tell me a little bit about how you see the N.J. music scene where you are? You hinted at it earlier.

DAN: It could be better. There's very few venues out there anymore & I feel there are very few promoters that really put in the effort into reviving the music scene in this area. There's only a handful of venues I play at & even less promoters that I'd work with. It's a very it's a tough scene. Everybody is pointing their fingers at everybody else to get the work done & promoters act more like bookers.

AJ: What about musically?

DAN: Musically FEROX CANORUS would not be a good example of what the N.J. music scene is, as I said. I really do think we're coming from more of a European metal sort of background.

AJ: What do you mean by European metal?

DAN: The way I distinguish it is in a way a lot of people distinguish it. A lot of European stuff is like BLIND GUARDIAN, EVERGREY, those kinds of bands. While in America you'll have bands that sort of lean more to the style of LAMB OF GOD, the harsher sort of death thrash metal sort of thing. That's kinda what's going on here. Sort of a death metal meets thrash metal kind of thing. We're not in that vein.

AJ: A lot of people I know think of N.J. as the home of SKID ROW & BON JOVI & Bruce Springsteen, more bar band type stuff.

DAN: It is, but its not like that anymore.

AJ: That's even farther from you than the thrash metal.

DAN: Different planet. It's more thrash metal revival thing going on right now. I've seen a lot of bands come out that are a more of the old school 80's thrash. A lot of bands that we play with. Thrash metal seems to be making a comeback, at least here.

AJ: Dan, as you've been with this band now for a few years you've really sculpted it &, I should say, it has sculpted you. You've had people come & go & come & go. It's really become ... how might we say it ... it's definitely your your child, without question.

DAN: Yes.

AJ: What is the biggest challenge in fatherhood?

DAN: The biggest challenge for me has probably been getting everybody on the same page. It's something we touched on a little earlier. Getting everybody in the band just sort of on the same wave length & to work together. That's the sort of the reason why we've been around for a while, but nobody's heard of us. Everybody is just not quite on the same page yet. My keyboard player has been taking 25 credits a semester trying to finish up school, so he's been immensely busy. He's a very very key part of this sound, so we certainly don't want to penalize him for that. For some of the others, we just had personal things to work out over the past year or so. It's just getting everybody on that same page & sometimes you've got to let people go when it doesn't work. No matter how good they are or how well you get along, if they just don't want to work for it, then sometimes you just have to let a band member go. That's probably the toughest thing to do is just getting everybody to work together, because when one person doesn't pull their weight, you're done, you're dead, that's it. You're either going to be the only guy in your band, re-hiring people with a rotating door, or you try to work with certain members that aren't being cooperative & you go nowhere. That's got to be the hardest part.

AJ: You wrote to me recently, & I warned you I would quote this as its great, you said that "someone has to be a leader & more often than not I am forced to choose between being a friend & being a businessman."

DAN: Go ahead & quote me on that as it's very true. That's one of the things with forming a band with all your friends. When it comes time to make a decision they don't always take it the right way.

AJ: You're lucky if you still have a friendship after the fact.

DAN: Egos get very easily hurt in these situations. I'm not necessarily talking about the guys I'm with now. I just meant in general.

AJ: I understand.

DAN: It's an art & a lot of musicians take their art very seriously. When something is not going their way they take offense at it more than they probably should. You have to learn to separate your emotions from what you're doing sometimes. You have to look at it from a logical standpoint to figure out how to get things done & get this music somewhere as otherwise nobody will hear it.

AJ: Then you have to re-evaluate why you are doing it, if nobody is going to hear it.

DAN: Exactly. Why are you wasting your time?

AJ: I know a guy who has been playing in a band for at least 2 years now. They have never performed outside the rehearsal studio & have no intention of leaving. They write songs & rehearse them once a week & that's it. I don't quite understand the purpose.

DAN: That would be terribly frustrating.

AJ: He has a couple other bands that perform & this group plays a different style of music & provides some creative outlet, though many of us want to hear the music.

DAN: I can understand that. He's looking for an outlet & wants to play without pressure. For me, I'm too ambitious. I've got to get this music out there & we've certainly played our fair share of live shows. But, I think we took the wrong tactic & we didn't quite build a fan base as we thought we might.

AJ: What do you mean?

DAN: We had the assumption that if you play live a lot then people are going to hear you & they'll come to see your shows. The logic makes sense, but around here its the same people that show up every time. Everybody in the scene has seen & heard you. You're seeing the same faces at every show. The live shows thus aren't promoting you at all, as you're not introducing your music to new people. We've spent a lot of time playing live. Now we're planning on just focusing on this album & getting that out & being able to distribute it digitally, hopefully build some sort of buzz & then make a return to playing live.

AJ: Speaking of your songs, the simply titled demo "Tomorrow" is a favorite of mine.

DAN: "Tomorrow" is actually one of the first songs that I wrote. It's actually very personal to me as it addresses the death of my sister.

AJ: That is very personal. I know some musicians that like to disguise things a bit.

DAN: I'm not like that. I'm like a nudist. Look at it all. Music is emotion & I really feel that content is very important in building a following. People should connect with your music & take something away from it. It's not just a good dance beat, but can actually mean something.

AJ: I want to ask you, before I forget, about a day gig that you've had. You've worked as a guitar teacher. I'm curious, does the teaching you do effect what you do with the band?

DAN: It certainly does. I've heard many teachers mentioned before that they can learn as much from their students as their students learn from them. That's certainly something I agree with. There's a lot of my students that have taught me some things about the guitar, like an interesting viewpoint that I never quite put into that perspective. A lot of my growth as a player actually occurred when I became a guitar teacher. I think from a standpoint where you got to know your stuff inside & out in order to teach it properly, so that really drilled fundamentals in my head. Then you get your students & their enthusiasm in music. Sometimes they will introduce you to band you've never heard of, so it's fun. I think its definitely a give & take relationship.

AJ: Let's talk about what you're doing right now with FEROX CANORUS & where you're going with it. Can you tell me a little bit about the album you're working on?

DAN: Like I said, we've been spinning our wheels in the dirt for a while now. Now it's really time to put in the work & get the music out there. We've taken a hiatus for a while. We're going on almost a year since the last time we played out. We tried booking a couple of live gigs since then. Unfortunately, they didn't pan out due to some personal problems of some of the band members. We kind of decided to let everybody take a break & we'll get back to this later. We had actually started recording the album during this time period around last winter & the whole thing got scrapped. We were rushing it & it just wasn't coming out ... you know, it wasn't really coming out any better than the demos. We decided to take a break. My keyboard player, as well as my bass player, were doing school. Let them finish up. Let everybody work with their personal problems. Actually, for the past 3 weeks we started rehearsals again. It's fun. It's almost like we never took a break. During that time period my bass player made the decision to switch from bass to lead vocals & rhythm guitar. On the song "Tomorrow" he's the one that sings the chorus & he wouldn't have in the past. He's going to take over more of the lead duties. My keyboard player is the one who has been singing lead for the past 2 years now. He is going to continue to do backing vocals & some of the vocals on the softer sections. We added a new bassist. Everybody is a college music graduate except for me. I didn't like the curriculum & restrictions. I probably would have done well, but I have family obligations & couldn't go running off to Boston to study music.

AJ: I've known many music college students who didn't finish as they found they learned more in playing in the rehearsal studio than in the classroom.

DAN: I agree. So, what we're doing now is rehearsing with this new line-up. Everybody is getting used to the new roles. I've been the only guitarist in the band for a long time, so now that I've got a 2nd guitarist I can start doing those dueling IRON MAIDEN harmonies again. We've got to work some of that stuff out. That's got to be in there. That stuff is fun. We're going to start recording the album very soon.

AJ: Do you have all the songs for the album written? How's that part of the process?

DAN: We're always writing stuff. The gears are always turning. We have at least 6 half finished songs. What you see on the Reverb Nation page is pretty much our live set. We're going to be adding another song to that list. That's the one I was telling you about before, that we can never remember the arrangement. It'll be about an hour of music total. We've got a couple longer songs, like 8 minutes or so. We don't set restrictions. The music writes itself & takes us places sometimes.

AJ: Dan, we're coming to the end of this interview. I'm very appreciative of having you talk with me.

DAN: I have to return that appreciation. You've interviewed guys like Graham Bonnet, yet you still give the chance to us smaller guys to have our voice heard. If more people did that it would certainly be easier to get our music out there.

AJ: I might talk to big folks, but we're all facing the same struggles. Graham even asked me if I had work. There's no hierarchy. Is there anything more you want to share?

DAN: For some of the other bands that might be struggling, a couple of take home tips. As we mentioned before, somebody needs to be the band leader. If one is not willing to steer it's not going to go any place. One of the things that irks me about some musicians is they aren't interested in the marketing & business aspect of it. I think that is almost more important than the music itself, I hate to say it. In a perfect world we could let the music speak for itself, but it's far from being a perfect world. You really need to learn the music business if you want your music to read a wider audience. Those that don't want to mess with that & are just here for the art are the ones who often fail the fastest.

AJ: That's probably the thing I've seen more than anything. I think I work harder as a promoter & with a bedroom label than I ever did with a band. I've seen so many bands that don't want to do the work & yet think they'll be touring with MEGADETH.

DAN: Sometimes you hear of these overnight successes. But, those are usually bands that have been banging around for years, but you just never heard of them. There is no overnight success. Things won't fall into your lap. You have to do your homework. That's what it comes down to.

"I Wanted To Keep Breaking The Rules" An Interview With STEFAN KLEIN of DETHCENTRIK (Interview 2 of 2)

2018-01-02T09:16:00.001-08:00

Nov 2017 (e-mail)

Stefan Klein of Colorado is the leader of the avant-garde industrial group Dethcentrik, has a solo career under the name Dod Beverte, is a member of f.k.k.d. & runs Dod Incarnate Records that releases both his & others music. Terrorizer mag described Dethcentrik's music as "black horrormetal" not long after their formation in 2009. A decade later hindsight shows this to be a poor label that only scratches the surface. Stefan has made a conscious effort to prove his critics wrong by actively expanding his musical palette. Today, his musical outpourings are far from metal or black as he fuses the atmosphere of Pink Floyd with the experimentation of Throbbing Gristle with the anger of Nine Inch Nails. His forthcoming April 2018 release, Polarination, is a haunting instrumental album with more in common with Pink Floyd's abstract soundscapes than anything one might know Dethcentrik for.

My relationship with Stefan began in 2012 when I came across the Dethcentrik albums & I was both impressed & fascinated by the amount of negativity to music. A friendship would develop after I reviewed one of his albums, leading me to remix some of his music & making new music with him in a joint release as Dethcentrik & Blank Faced Prophet, while also being an ear as he developed other stuff. I can vouch for encouraging him to change a drum track on Polarination. Of all the musicians I've known Stefan has probably progressed musically more than anyone else & its been a pleasure & a learning experience. I have a new appreciation of Nine Inch Nails because of our talks. In April 2012 I did a telephone interview with him that was broadcast on my Roman Midnight Music podcast & is transcribed on this blog. At that time we discussed some of the negative response to his music, including the false claims of Satanism. If anti-Trump lyrics are considered Satanist than surprise on us that he's actually a Satanist after all, along with a good chunk of the country ... & we're surprisingly wrong in thinking those claims & others like them are actually just a gut response to hearing lots of distortion & screamed lyrics & not exploring anything further. I like to tell the story that when I went to edit the recording to play on my show I discovered 12 minutes missing of the hour talk. Technical glitches do happen, but the irony was that the missing part was almost entirely focused on discussing Satanism in music! Maybe there is things going on after all! Considering how different his new album sounds to his past work, that just might be the case. Enough time had passed that it seemed time to talk with Stefan again about his new musical directions.

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AJ: Over the past decade your music has morphed along different experimental-industrial-metal avenues to a point where the simple mesmerizing lines of your latest release are barely recognizable as being from the same creator of the ultra distorted cacophony of DETHCENTRIK. What have been the influences that you feel have directly impacted your growth as a composer over the last few years & influenced this stylistic development?

STEFAN: I think I’ve learned to appreciate my own compositions more & began relying less of effects to make my sound. I’ve been more patient with my art & myself & have found the confidence to address criticisms of my work. I think the biggest influences recently have been NINE INCH NAILS, MINISTRY, PINK FLOYD, VOICES OF DESTRUCTION & a lot of soundtrack composers like Clint Mansell, Hans Zimmer & the like.

AJ: Along the same lines, what musicians or music styles are the biggest influences on your music in general?

STEFAN: I’d say I’m most influenced by rock, metal included,, industrial music & classical. Anything I like tends to rub off on me.

AJ: You’ve had the opportunity to connect with some musicians on the bigger stage, I believe members of industrial groups SKINNY PUPPY & NINE INCH NAILS have come into your circle & heard your music? Can you tell me more about who & what of those encounters?

STEFAN: I have run-ins with people in the scene from time to time. The most bizarre incident may be when a Trump supporter friend of mine kept arguing with Tom Shear of Seattle industrial outing ASSEMBLAGE 23 on my Facebook. I’ve actually asked a few of my connections to listen to my music & critique it. One person who took to time to listen was Nivek Ogre, a founding member of SKINNY PUPPY, & he was actually able to tell I had only taken & used one sample for "The Big Clang". I’m assuming Chris Vrenna is the NINE INCH NAILS member you’d be referring to. He was also in MARILYN MANSON. He actually did a remix of "If Only", which I had produced as DETHCENTRIK. It’s on the bonus track edition of Electronic Saviors Volume 3: Remission.

AJ: In the beginning there was a lot of animosity against you, being called Satanic &the worst music of the year, often without any cause other than your music was heavily distorted & seemingly angry. This is something we spoke extensively about in our 2012 interview. What’s the state of response to your music today? Are there still the haters?

STEFAN: There are still a lot of haters. They just don’t bother me as much.

AJ: Working with others has also helped temper that mood against you, I'm sure.

STEFAN: Working with other artists gets you constructive criticism. People may tell you they don’t like something, but they can also tell you why. As an artist that helps you grow.

AJ: I believe you’ve also had some trouble with distribution in the past?

STEFAN: I’ve been known to be a bit provocative with album art & lyrical content. Album covers I design have been banned numerous times. The most recent controversy is that Amazon wouldn’t give away Red, White, & F*ck You!. The reason they gave me was the distortion, but I know they’ve sold much noisier music of mine.

AJ: Your music has also appeared on some compilations. Can you tell me about these & how did you find yourself included? I mean, here’s a guy once pushed away for Satanism, which actually didn't exist in your music, & now is on compilations.

STEFAN: I won’t tell anyone there’s a straightforward way to get on a compilation. There have been some we’ve been rejected from during auditions, that is you essentially send a demo & they give a yes or a no, & others that have been as simple as sending an email. I think reaching out more, in general, tends to land you in more places & I think that’s partly why we’ve gotten beyond the barrier typically associated with black metal: Satanism & loud music. I think becoming more musically open-minded got me a little more accepted.

AJ: What is the biggest hurdle you’ve found when reaching out to people with your music? Is it distribution or is it getting listeners in general, as most musicians face, or is it breaking down stereotypes about what your music is/isn’t?

STEFAN: I think finding the right crowd has been a hurdle. We don’t conform enough to any given genre to really be able to know our niche or what is our scene. So, I think we have had to break stereotypes first, then find our listeners, whereas a lot of artists who just copy a generic formula tend to have media outlets specifically for reaching the people who like their genre.

AJ: How do you define the style of your music?

STEFAN: It’s still hard to define. I guess if I had to label it I would call it industrial music, simply because that’s such a broad umbrella term.

AJ: You also have your own label that has expanded beyond just your own music. Who are the musicians you work with?

STEFAN: Most recently it’s been EXHALED LIFE, a black metal project from Texas, & DISTURBING TAXIDERMY. Romero from DISTURBING TAXIDERMY & I often frequent the same club here in town. Our first collaboration was through Vivi Vex’s project THE RUST PUNK TRIBE. Vivi was having artists produce stems for the project & would mix them together. We then collaborated on "I Don’t Want To Live This Li(f)e" & Romero joined DETHCENTRIK.

AJ: Part of the changes that I know have effected your music is that you’ve had your stuff remixed by others & you’ve done collaborative work with others, such as this work with Romeo or what you & did as DETHCENTRIK & BLANK FACED PROPHET. When we did an interview years ago I asked what it was like hear these tracks sent back to you & the response was surprise. But, now years later, how has this work had an impact on your own creations?

STEFAN: That’s actually quite an interesting question. I do think I can safely say that the remixes certainly helped me realize how much more possibility there was for DETHCENTRIK. Being able to hear different mixes of one track allows you the hear improvements made the original that perhaps you’d like to apply to future tracks.

AJ: Long overdue question I've wanted: how do you make your music? I always have envisioned you recording some sound effect, like thunder, & running it through some mixing program & then having someone plug a guitar or drum over it. Or, taking a guitar line & looping it around to a distorting level. What do you actually play? Is there others involved? How do you make your sounds?

STEFAN: It depends on the song really, & the approach has certainly changed. I used to write lyrics & the music was honestly somewhat of an afterthought. Now, what I typically do is improvise a riff, practice it a few times, record it, repeat until my guitars are completed, then mess around with effects & pitches, etc. Then, program drums & keyboards, manipulate, then finally add samples. Obviously, I didn’t sample Donald Trump or the Charlottesville protests, but objects I can sample I do, like banging things together, machines, etc. I often feel my brain is on a different wavelength for composing than it is for writing, hence why I tend to predominantly either make very noisy music with lyrics or instrumental music. On Polarination it’s just the samples I collected & me. Romero & I have gone out & recorded samples for our collaborative work before. It’s quite fun!

AJ: Going back too what you just said about lyrics. Your music has included its share of shouted undiscernible lyrics, but the current work is more instrumental. You have albums that have lyrics & others that use lyrics as more background sounds & others that are more instrumental. What’s your view on lyrics in your music in general?

STEFAN: I do think lyricism is its own art form, it’s not music alone, but it is an art form. There’s nothing wrong with combining the 2, however I personally think that my soul certainly pours more through sound than words. There’s nothing wrong with lyrics, but I feel they actually serve a separate purpose than music. Whether I write lyrics or not really comes down to the message I want to send.

AJ: What is that message? What are you trying to do with your music? Or, where are you trying to take it?

STEFAN: It tends to go with however I’m feeling. My emotions drive me to make music I tend to feel an urge or a craving to make it. I can’t predict exactly how it will evolve over time, but I’d like to think it’s maturing with me, that as I improve myself it too will improve.

AJ: All this talk leads to the new album, which we've been touching on lightly, can you tell a little bit about this new effort? Its so very different than past music you’ve created that there’s obviously some vision behind it.

STEFAN: I think that the upcoming DETHCENTRIK album has been influencing my next solo album, & I’m actually hoping to apply some elements from this album on that DETHCENTRIK album. I’ve decided to take more time & be more proper from a musicology perspective. I wanted to keep breaking the rules, while also demonstrating maturity, discipline & a knowledge of music theory while still being unconventional in many ways. I wanted more familiarity at the music’s core rather than vague influences from other genres. This began as composing dark ambient. One of the tracks on this album, "Holding Onto The Pieces", was originally composed for soundtrack use. This album essentially grew as a soundtrack of the modern political climate. It’s kind of slowly taken the place of working class American atmospherically as that has taken on a new atmosphere of its own.

AJ: Tell me about the composing behind this new album.

STEFAN: My primary focus became instrumentals & atmosphere on this album, while before the themes were the most important thing, as I mentioned earlier. I let my subconscious drive me more here & have certainly put more focus into the individuals pieces, rather than rushing the pieces into the whole. I’m staying more in line with consistent time signatures & more conventional instrumentation & having the noise simply add more atmosphere over dominating the instrumentation.

AJ: I believe you also have a new name you are making music under, in addition to DETHCENTRIK & your solo work as Dod Beverte?

STEFAN: f.kk.d was the most recent new band I was in. I’m not sure what’s happening long run with that project, but I have also been collaborating with other industrial & electronic artists. Jeremiah & Romero are new to DETHCENTRIK & collaborating with them I think has helped me grow personally as an artist. Polarination is just me with the samples, guitar, drum machine & MIDI controller, but I have had many recent collaborations that have improved my musicianship, production skills, & given me a new perspective & influence on my own style.

"An Addict Of The Music Industry" An Interview With SEVEN (formerly ALAN SCOTT PLOTKIN)

2017-11-11T20:22:00.001-08:00

Feb 2015 (skype)

When thinking of the most under-rated people in the music world the joke usually turns to rock keyboardists or maybe bassists, both suffering with non-glamorous instruments usually out of the spotlight. But, when it comes to the most under-rated we really need to move beyond the musicians themselves, which then offers up the question: can you name a famous engineer? Don't spend too much time thinking about that, which you probably will, instead know that when you finish reading this interview you'll have an answer. Seven, formerly known as Alan Scott Plotkin, has spent his entire life in the music industry, now over 4 decades. He has played in numerous bands as a guitarist & drummer, while also composing, but his legacy largely rests on his under-rated behind the scenes work as an engineer & co-producer working for all the top NYC studios. His credits are countless & include a diverse array of musicians as Public Enemy, Vanessa Williams, Busta Rhymes, Virgin Steele, actor Philip Michael Thomas of the original Miami Vice & he was heavily involved in the pre-gangsta' rap scene. Since taking a normal day job some years ago & working through health problems, Seven hasn't spent as much time in the studio but instead refocused his energy on spreading the zaniness of his extroverted personality. He can be found via crazy youtube videos, radio interviews & live video broadcasts via his own Seven's Nuts. More importantly, in 2010 he published Exile In Rosedale: The Musical Life Of Seven 1963-2009 an 800 plus page no-holds bar look at his life covering everything from trying to make it as a musician, working in studios as an engineer, drugs, family life, ups & downs, pleasures & discoveries. This interview focuses primarily on his work as an author & response to the book, leaving his musical legacy to the book & its accompanying online virtual box set of over 300 songs & memorabilia, which is one of the first of its kind.

I love reading music biographies. I've even read biographies on musicians I didn't know, who I came to become a fan of. I met Seven through a friend & ordered his book & couldn't put it down. Because I read so much I've become somewhat critical of music biographies books, seeing too many musicians throw away an opportunity to share their innermost thoughts or answer fan questions or discuss making music, to instead focus on how much sex they have or shallow party stories which is as clichéd as writing a rock ballad about sex. After struggling through an 800 page book, which I never do outside of Ayn Rand novels, its easy to say it was a good read, just in honor of the effort. But, those who have read my other reviews blog know I'm not good at bluffing. Thus, I mean it when I say this really is a good read. This is the book I've wanted to see from far more famous writers who I have had higher expectations for. Seven writes the cliched rock stories, but then goes the next step & discusses his feelings & the experience of a struggling musician & industry professional. Its one of the best books I've read about the music business, away from the million dollar limo rides & MTV, about what life was like for many of those working in music. It's honest & scandalous, apologetic yet celebratory. It took awhile, but it was a pleasure to finally sit down with Seven over a few hours via Skype between Maine & NYC to discuss the book.

Special thanks to Maxx Mann who introduced me to Seven.

This interview is dedicated to Seven's father Mitchell Plotkin, an under-rated engineer in his own right, who died before this could be posted.

* * * * *

AJ: Let me start with the basics. What does your name, Seven, mean? Why did you choose Seven?

SEVEN: I never liked my name. Besides the fact that I just never felt comfortable with the name Alan. I would always fuck with it. I was Alan Scott. The rappers used to call me Money Al or A.P.. I've had all these different names through out time, but it was always like a glove that never fit. When I wrote the book I said I'd make the change. So, I was working for a computer company at the time. I never thought about what I was going to change my name to. That's the funny part about it. I thought the first thing I have to do is go to work & I have to tell them that I'm going to change my name. So, I walked into the HR lady's office. She asked if I lost my name badge again. I told her I was changing my name. She thought it was a joke, because I'm always horsing around. She said "What are you changing your name to?" Then I just thought: Seven. I just pulled it out of thin air. She said to me "You can't fuck around with the name database. If you don't stop horsing around, you're probably going to get fired, no matter how many computers you sell or no matter how much you've accomplished here." I said okay. But, it was just like that. It was Seven. I didn't even flinch. So, it went into the database. I just wanted it to be Seven. No last name, no middle name, no first name. At first it wouldn't let me, so I was Seven Plotkin. Then when facebook came along I didn't have a last name, but it also wouldn't let me not have a last name, so I picked Istheman [note: pronounced 'is the man']. It's so funny because people look at Seven Istheman & ask what the origin of that name is. I tell them it's Nordic.

AJ: I always thought it was Viking. Jewish Viking.

SEVEN: Jewish Viking? I don't think there were any Jews that were Vikings.

AJ: That's why nobody else has that name. You're the first, or the seventh.

SEVEN: They say we're going to conquer with gefilte fish ... So, it's from that day at work I became Seven. The funny thing is, of all the things I am - everything is based on this wacky history of music, my father, Mitch, & all this stuff - the name has no meaning whatsoever. But, it makes me feel so good when people use that name. Almost nobody except some family members & a few old friends refuse to go along with the program. A couple of times my girlfriend will slip & then she gets a look, but she's cool with it.

AJ: It's easy to play with, too. You can do so much with Seven.

SEVEN: It's great when I talk to people. They'll ask what's your name & I'll go Seven. They'll go 'Okay, Steven'. Also, the reason I wanted to change my name, besides not liking it, is if you look on all my album credits on the internet it'll take years, because they could never spell Alan Scott Plotkin right.

AJ: Then you get your bands like J.J./SCOTT with a variation on your name.

SEVEN: That was named after J.J. [Jennifer Jean], who was the singer, & Alan Scott, who didn't have a good name at the time.

AJ: That's your name & it doesn't mean anything.

SEVEN: Exactly.

AJ: Even before getting a better name, you have over 30 years of professional music work.

SEVEN: Officially, I started at Mediasound Recording in 1981. But, I was doing it longer than that. I was editing tape at 7 years old. It wasn't professional, but I was doing recording.

AJ: Stuff for your dad, like you share in the book, & having your own little bands. The question is ... suddenly after so long, you change your name. Did you wonder how people were going to relate to this person who has 30 years of music under a very different name & with a reputation under that name?

SEVEN: I didn't care. I can just tell you if you ask what have I done & I always say the same thing: PUBLIC ENEMY, AEROSMITH, Vanessa Williams, Ice Cube, all that stuff. In a professional setting no one will question it. But, I don't care, because people spelled it wrong so many times it's like I'm a guy who worked on 3 albums his whole life. So, it really doesn't matter. For those 3 albums I'd rather be something I like. It's like, if people believe about what I've done, then they believe me; if they don't, then it doesn't matter.

AJ: If they really want to know your music you can tell them where to go to find it.

SEVEN: They can buy the big fat book.

AJ: Then they can actually read the thing, which you know I did, though it took awhile.

SEVEN: They can also smack an intruder with it.

AJ: Multi-purpose publishing! Or, they can look at your online box set, the Exile Box Set, which might be the only online box set in existence.

SEVEN: There's other people that have done it since I've done it.

AJ: But, it looks like you have nearly everything in it.

SEVEN: It's got a lot, but it's not everything. In my house there's a wall of digital back-ups, multi-tracks, craziness. I've worked on so many projects over the years you couldn't put them all in. It's like Mitch Diamond, a guitarist I've worked with a lot, he thought the book was 25% of the excitement in my life. When you tell a person you wrote a book they ask how long is it. I say it's 819 pages. Again, I get the same look as when I say my name is Seven. 'Oh, Steven wrote a 619 page book.' No, Seven wrote a 819 page book.

AJ: Mitch has been with you forever, too. He's one of your all time guitar buddies.

SEVEN: He's one of my favorite guitar players in the world. He was a client, then he became a best friend. We do almost everything together.

AJ: So, if he says it's 25% he's the expert. I have to ask, you spent all your life writing music. You have composed music & written lyrics. Now you attempt an 800 page book.

SEVEN: Right.

AJ: This means you've gone from writing a song lyric that takes up a notebook page to 800 notebook pages. That's 2 different forms of writing & 2 different approaches. My first thought is: what went through your mind? Here you are stepping out of your comfort zone to experiment with this new form of writing & you even finish the project & its massive no less. Many people never finish their projects, let alone 819 pages.

SEVEN: The way the book started wasn't as a book. When my daughter, Lindsay, was born in 1994 I was so fed up with music & I had my ex-wife breathing down my back. We were split up for the 1st or 2nd time. My ex-wife wanted more money & I was done. I needed to get a regular job. I mention this in the book. I thought, before I get a regular job why don't I take all this music that I've worked on, or the favorite parts of my music, & put it into a box set. I'll give it to my friends & family & I'll have closure. So, once I decided that, I assembled all the music. Then I was like, I can't just hand this stuff to people. Some people won't know the history of the music. So, let me start writing some notes. I started writing some notes about some of the songs & then it started to look like a book. Then I thought I'd horse around with this. But, I never wrote anything but songs. English was the only thing in school I passed. I failed gym.

AJ: Do you really want to say you failed gym in public?

SEVEN: I wouldn't wear gym sweats, so the teacher would fail me. He's the only guy who would really call me Alan. He would call me Al Plotkin. I'd say rockers don't wear gym shorts. He'd go 'Rockers don't pass gym either.' I was like fuck it then. But, what was the original point I was making?

AJ: You were writing the song descriptions essentially.

SEVEN: So, I'm writing these little things & then it started to take shape as a book. I wrote about 8 chapters. Then, you know from the book, I got back with my ex-wife & ... I don't know, something happened. My ex-wife would suck all the creativity out of the room. So, I put the book away for a number of years. Then, I think about 8 years later I'd separated from my wife for the final time & I took it out & tried to write, but it wasn't right & it went back in the drawer. In 2009 my pancreas broke. Basically, I was out for year. Actually, right before I broke my pancreas I'd pulled the book out & was like 'Wow, this actually reads kinda cool.' So, when I worked at the computer store one of my associates was a very brilliant woman named Laura Leitman. I had said to Laura, 'I wrote something a long time ago. Would you take a look at it? It's just a gift to my friends & family, along with some music, but I want to see what you think. It's nothing I'm going to sell. No one is going to put this on the market. It'll never be public. It's going to be short & simple.' She read it & came back to me the next week. She looked at me & said 'You're out of your fucking mind. You can't give this away.' I asked if it was that bad. She said it was that good. She said it was fucking brilliant & I had to finish it. She said 'You have to sell this. Your speaking voice comes out in the book. I can't believe it. You said you didn't go to college.' I said a got a very high score G.E.D. So, that's it. I worked on the book. I finished the book. It was an incredible process. I was in an apartment that had a load bearing beams. You know, those beams in the basement? So, I put sticky notes on the beams to create the chapters, which gave me the framing of the story. The entire book was written with about 3000 sticky notes.

AJ: How was this writing process for someone who was going from a lyric writer to a non-fiction writer?

SEVEN: Just imagine, if you will, I put up sticky notes asking myself what are the main things I want to talk about. Then I wrote down about my life. I just wrote. I wrote my story, so it wasn't hard. I wasn't going to gloss it up or make it any more crazier. You couldn't make the story any crazier.

AJ: That's true.

SEVEN: I couldn't imagine it any crazier without being psycho. I just wrote my story & framed it with these sticky notes on this beam. My biggest problem was time frame, what sequence things happened it. Luckily, I still have a lot of my friends still around who I could call to kinda double check time frames. I did the best that I could. I mention at the beginning of the book that if something wasn't correct or that my memory wasn't clear on I would change it. I did plan on doing an appendum.

AJ: It is your life history, a vivid life history, but on some level it also feels like its more than that. It feels like there's an apology to some people underneath it all. It's a confessional more than a glamorous story at times.

SEVEN: It's definitely a confessional, an apology. Not only did I use this book to apologize to people for my behavior ... I think in life we don't get a chance ... Look, nobody is perfect & I'm certainly as far from it as you can imagine. By telling my story I have the chance to kinda say I'm sorry, you know. At times when I was so young & working with my dad in the studio I fucked up. It was a chance for me to not only ask forgiveness from others, but it was an opportunity to forgive myself.

AJ: The stories you tell about you & your dad & just about fucking up as much as you can ... not deliberately, not always deliberately, that is ... in the book you're really just super humble about all that.

SEVEN: You got to remember I was in a recording studio as a child. I was 3 machine mixing with analog tape when I was 9 years old. I mean, I could edit with a razor blade pretty good at 9. I was doing it on my own at 7. I was stealing my dad's razor blade late at night, because he wouldn't let me use a razor blade at 7 years old. But, I could do it, so once he wasn't around ... I started editing on my own & then dad taught me how to do it correctly at 8 years old. I wasn't a spoiled child. I earned every bit of it. I fucked up in school. I went to summer school. But, even being 16 years old ... You're not a man at 16 years old, but I was pushing around microphones for the ROMANTICS. I was around when SOFT CELL was in the studio & the GRATEFUL DEAD were in the studio. I was hanging out, right before I got hired, when I was 15 or whatever it was, & Peter Frampton was working on Breaking All The Rules with producer Harvey Goldberg at Mediasound. I'm hanging out at the studio & I'm sitting there & Peter Frampton just sits down right next to me. I had my Sony cassette walkman on. He's like "What are you listening to?" "Oh, a song I'm working on." "Kid, can I listen?" Just imagine Peter Frampton takes my headphones & he's listening to my song all the way through from beginning to end. It was that kinda of ... it was too much too soon for a young person. Even though I started washing toilets & stuff like that, I was assisting sessions the whole time. My first session was with Art Garfunkel & he was a scumbag, by the way, just for the record.

AJ: I've heard that before.

SEVEN: My dad worked with Paul Simon. He was the nice guy. I got the scumbag.

AJ: You were young. You had to start from the bottom.

SEVEN: That's another thing. People were very tough on me, so I reacted very cordially to them. Tough love. My father was out of control. He would lean on me so hard. I couldn't call him dad. I had to call him Mitch. Even if I fucked that up he'd look at me. You know what I mean? He was very hard on me & showed me no favoritism, which was a good thing. I worked very hard, but it was just a lot. I was too young. I was too immature. I was too A.D.D., at an age where they didn't know what A.D.D. was. So, yeah, there were a lot of screw-ups in the beginning. Then, of course, you know from reading the book, there was drugs later on & all that stuff.

AJ: You detail quite a few falls from drugs, alcohol, depression & all those good things.

SEVEN: I write about it real honestly.

AJ: Incredibly so. You detail that almost too well. But, I want to ask, you've put these details out there & there's nothing bad with it. You're not like trying to shit on people. You're very honest & confessional & it's not like one of these tell all pointy finger books.

SEVEN: In the book I'm way more hard on myself than I am with anybody else. Even the people that really legitimately fucked me over. A lot of times it was just the music industry being the music industry. So, what happens is your reaction creates another bad reaction on the other end, so all I was doing was setting the domino effect.

AJ: You add to that the drugs, the money & all that & it's just one long domino effect. But, being so honest & printing this book up & selling it, is there any point where you said to yourself that maybe it was too much & maybe you didn't want to share this much? That it's too public? You know what I'm saying?

SEVEN: I've always said, I get a zit on my ass just like everybody else, but I'll show it to you & we can pop it together. ... I'll tell you the truth. It's like, I don't know, there was something very liberating about telling the pure exact truth & putting it out there. Was I worried about what people were going to think? For about 10 minutes. Then I was like fuck them. I'm not that person anymore. I grew up & changed.

AJ: While maybe you hope some people have grown & changed enough, too, so they don't care anymore.

SEVEN: The people I wrote about in the book ... like producer & songwriter Jerry Ragovoy. I discussed it with Jerry & got to kinda make up with him before he died. Who else? Jenny, the singer J.J./SCOTT, my ex-fiance. I talk about that brutally in that book. You know what she said to me? She said, "Thanks for not painting me in a bad light." I told her, I'm sorry, I just wanted to tell the truth. She's a psychologist now, a social worker, & she said it was very honest & she wouldn't change a thing.

AJ: Did your daughter or your ex-wife read the book?

SEVEN: My ex-wife read it. Actually, she stole my first printed copy of it from my possession. She changed the cover. She scotch-taped a different cover on the front & back. She actually re-wrote a good portion of the book. She made changes. She x'd things out. She said where things were true & things weren't true or things like 'I didn't know that' or stuff like that. Yeah, she certainly read the book!

AJ: Wow. She doesn't necessarily get painted in the best light. It's not the happiest point in your life.

SEVEN: I definitely paint her out as the devil. Basically, a wart remover.

AJ: Pretty much.

SEVEN: Right in the picture section.

AJ: There's not a good picture of her in there.

SEVEN: There is actually a picture ...

AJ: I'm not saying she's an ugly woman. She's actually very attractive, but the pictures you have of her are dark & moody.

SEVEN: She's a very attractive woman with a big nose & I didn't mind the big nose. But, under our picture it says: 'the day the music died.' That's really true. 10 minutes after we were married she looked at me straight in the face & basically asked if I was going to get a real job now. As for my daughter, she has not read it yet. I told her she wasn't allowed to read it as a child. But, now as an adult she's so busy with college. She's just glossed through it. My father read it.

AJ: What did he think?

SEVEN: He was destroyed in his trust. He didn't know a lot of stuff that was going on. I talk about in the book how I desperately wanted to tell my father how fucked I was on drugs. But, every chance that I had to say 'Dad, I'm fucked up, I need to go to rehab or something,' I couldn't do it. So, with the book, you know, he said 'Holy shit, you did a lot of drugs.' Then he cried. A lot of it made him cry. Like when I said I would have followed my dad through anything. If he was a baker I would have made croissants for a living.

AJ: How old is dad now?

SEVEN: He is going to be 80. [Note: He died in 2016.]

AJ: So, I guess from what you're saying there's nothing in the book you regret putting in there.

SEVEN: Believe it or not, in the editing process only 2 stories got cut out. One was a very very dark story with a famous person & the other was just a sex story with some girl.

AJ: You know, I've read a lot of music autobiographies & many are just 'look at how many chicks I banged.' That's the whole point of the book it seems. Bragging rights. You don't write about your excursions like that, which is the difference & makes your book more interesting. You're not showing off. You're like 'I had a good time, but that was a really bad mistake.' You don't hide from sharing these private moments, but you're not bragging or taking joy in them, but showing how they don't mean anything.

SEVEN: I definitely talk about my mistakes in the book, especially with women.

AJ: You don't glorify, like 'I was a musician & I had this & I partied & I had fun & did this great thing or that great thing.'

SEVEN: A lot of people said, as I'm so in your face as a person, that they thought the book was going to be a look at how cool my life has been. Even with my dad. It wasn't a look how cool my dad is, but it was more like 'isn't my dad cool?' I share him. One of my focus groups said she loved how I shared my father with the world in the book. The big part of the book is you can see that thread of respect & love. I worshiped my father.

AJ: Is there anything looking back, being its been a couple years since you wrote it, is there anything you wish you hadn't put in?

SEVEN: Yes, yes. The one thing I regret putting in it is I accidentally outed one of my lesbian friends. She read the book & I get a phone call & I'm like 'Hey, what's going on?' She goes 'I couldn't believe what you did.' I'm like 'What did I do now?' 'You outed me.' I'm like holy shit & 'You're not out?'

AJ: My next question is, what did Seven learn about himself after he wrote the book & after people started reading about his life?

SEVEN: I really thought a lot more people were angry. My life was like a snowball going down a mountain. A mix between a snowball & the Pied Piper, where I had no problem rallying people for my cause to do things with me that we wanted to do. You see in the book I've always been pretty much a team player. I've always enjoyed & loved team play. So, that was in the book that in that team play when things didn't go right people got hurt. I thought people were a lot more angry than they were. I think the one thing is that the people that I talked about in the book really appreciated the journey more than I thought they did, if that makes sense. It's like taking people on a trip with you. Sometimes you don't know if they wanted to go with you through that journey or not.

AJ: Exactly. You bristle people the wrong way but not deliberately & they don't understand your best intentions are there. I understand. Is there any surprise response you got that was negative? Other than your ex-wife? That's very interesting how she did her own version. Is there anyone who responded who really blew you away?

SEVEN: Recently someone told me there were a couple of things that were different, but other than outing my lesbian friend, no there wasn't. Like I said, I really didn't bash too many people in the book that hard. I bashed Busta Rhymes in the book, but I don't even know if he can read a book. I bashed him pretty hard, but I just told the story. Then there was an engineer who I kinda took a shot at because he was such a jerk. But, other than that I really haven't had anyone come out & attack me about the book. Even JAY & THE AMERICANS, who I slammed pretty hard. I didn't even hear from them. One guy who I wasn't writing about threatened me with a lawsuit if I wrote about him at all in the book. Johnny Blaze from SCARECROW, the hair metal band founded by TWISTED SISTER guitarist Eddie Ojeda. I was like 'Don't flatter yourself Johnny. You're not in the book.'

AJ: Sorry, buddy, & that threat isn't going to get you your own chapter, either.

SEVEN: In the food chain of people who took a bite out of my ass he didn't even take a bite. So, he didn't make it into the book. So, no, no one attacked me.

AJ: I ask only because attacking is a typical response when you get very personal like you did.

SEVEN: It's a valid question. One of the other people in my focus group was my friend Terry Collura Van Bellinghen who I wrote about in the book. An ex-girlfriend. She said she felt like she was reading my most intimate diaries & there where times when she felt embarrassed a little bit for me. I said it's okay. If I wrote it in the book I felt like I had to talk about it.

AJ: I totally agree with her. There were times when I was reading that I felt I shouldn't be privy to what you were sharing. There were other times, particularly when I was reading about your ex-wife, when I couldn't read fast enough because I wanted to know what was happening next. I wanted to make sure you were okay.

SEVEN: How do you like that sword fight? She was coming at me with a knife. I was like Sparticus.

AJ: I'm sure her version is very different. I literally read parts of it wanting to know if you got out okay. It's like a novel at times. You forget that it's a real person. It's just so gripping & you're so honest & its all so crazy that it almost doesn't seem real.

SEVEN: The funny thing about it ... There was one thing I thought when I finished the book. I thought people wouldn't believe the story. But, because I was so honest ... you can't make this shit up. People don't say things about themselves, like they don't paint themselves in that type of picture. So, no one ever question the veracity of the book.

AJ: It's too honest to be faked. You mentioned in the book & you've mentioned a few times here about this focus group. Can you clarify what you are referencing?

SEVEN: Absolutely. When I wrote the book I wanted there to be people who were reading it. I wanted instant feedback. In the digital age I can do that. As I wrote a few chapters or if I wrote a big heavy duty chapter I would send it out to the people I had in a focus group. They would read it & get back to me. Most of the time, I'd say 99% of the time, all I got was 'holy shit.' It was great. It was almost like having a support group. It was supposed to be a sounding board group, you know, instead it was basically like an at the moment audience for the book.

AJ: Were these friends or strangers or writers?

SEVEN: Some of them were acquaintances & some of them were ... like my editor. She didn't edit till the book was done. The first editor didn't really work out, so I didn't really end up using her edits. Then the second editor was fantastic, but it wasn't very thorough. The third editor was just quick on-the-fly help at the end. So, the book could actually use one more editing to be tighter. I'll probably update the book sometime. There's a couple of things that I would change time frame-wise. For example, the one chapter about the kid who inspired me to play who was actually younger than me & remembers how I got thrown out of my first band. ... Its interesting, later on when I worked with his group I thought he knew about my drug addiction & I write that. After he read the book he said he never knew. We were kinda mad at each other for a long time for no reason other than the fact that he didn't know I was sick, but I thought he did. Believe me, I was sick from the drugs.

AJ: I do believe you, from first hand observation of drug addicts & just normal medical drug usage.

SEVEN: It's all about survival when you get down to it. It's really a book about survival. Can I survive myself?

AJ: Speaking of surviving, how's your health?

SEVEN: I injured a disc in my back. They operated on it. It's day to day. I may need some additional surgery.

AJ: That's laid you up for awhile.

SEVEN: For over a year.

AJ: Let's talk about what Seven is doing these days post-writing. That is, what Seven does best ... making music.

SEVEN: Yeah, it's making music. It's so funny. My favorite instrument is the guitar. No, I go back & forth between guitar & drums. But, I think my best instrument really is the console.

AJ: You started as an engineer & that's what you always come back to. I met you via singer Maxx Mann, formerly of TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA & 12/24, as you were doing some things with him.

SEVEN: Maxx was singing on my album The End Of The World. Unfortunately, other things got in the way of finishing it.

AJ: Where are you now with music? That may not be the best question given your health & restricted activity.

SEVEN: It's a good question.

AJ: Where are you about to go might be the better question.

SEVEN: I have my album The End Of The World. I also have a movie I've been working on called The End Of The World. Most of it kinda got put on the shelf, not because of my health so much as I've been trying to find a singer for the album. It just seems for one reason or another I can't find a singer. So, I'm probably just going to wind up singing it myself. It's too bad, as I'm not a good singer.

AJ: Tell me about the album.

SEVEN: I can't find a singer for the album. It's hilarious. It's just a wacky place I'm in. I've gotten good feedback on the album. I had a major label listen & tell me to get a singer. I said to the guy from the record label 'You're a powerful player. Why don't you help me get a singer. I'm having trouble.' He said they didn't do that. There's no more A&R in the industry. There's no more artist development. It's over. They basically want it ready to go & they want to be able to put it out or they'll mix it for you & then put it out. So, I may end up singing it myself, then finishing it & mixing it. After the vocals are done I'm going to finish the overdubs. Some additional guitars & keyboards & production. Then mix it & put it out.

AJ: So it's all written?

SEVEN: I left some of it open for a singer. I'd say it's 80% written. The music is there for the entire album, just lyrically there's stuff that needs to be done.

AJ: You've got 3 or 4 songs up on youtube with Maxx singing so folks can get a preview. What's the story behind the making of this album?

SEVEN: That's a great question. About 3 years ago my daughter & my ex-wife just worked me over one weekend really bad. My daughter was about 17 years old & she was just in a real ... you know how kids hit that fuck you stage. She was leaning on me. My ex-wife was leaning on me. Plus my health was wacky.

AJ: I think we should clarify about your ex-wife that she was doing what she does best to you.

SEVEN: Basically, yes, giving me brain tumors, effectively. So, after they worked over me one weekend I wrote a tune called "Enough Of Me". It felt so good to be writing again I started writing more. I was in a car accident. I passed out from diabetes, not knowing I had it. I guess it wasn't my time as I turned & hit a tree instead of going on to the parkway & getting struck dead. I wrote a song called "Medicine". That song was written in 45 minutes.

AJ: So is it a biographical album?

SEVEN: I think it's me getting my anger out. It's a pretty angry record. It's me purging.

AJ: Listening to the tracks on youtube I saw that both you & Maxx are singing, but also you're not doing all the instruments. You have folks like Mitch Diamond contributing.

SEVEN: Mitch Diamond plays lead guitar on some tracks & some rhythm. He's my go-to guy for most of my leads. I've got a bunch of great musicians: Joe Cortese, Tommy "Thunder" Semioli, Anthony Lombardo.

AJ: You've got a movie that's going with this, too.

SEVEN: A mockumentary. It includes a lot of my history & stuff like that. Like in one part of the movie I show all the different locations I had my studios in. I visit like 12 different places. It's very funny & crazy, like me. It shows the recording of the album, writing & producing it & stuff like that.

AJ: So that movie won't be finished until the album is?

SEVEN: It can't be.

AJ: What else do you have in the mix?

SEVEN: A second book. I look forward to writing the next book.

AJ: Do you mean an update to your autobiography or a true second book?

SEVEN: A true second book.

AJ: About what?

SEVEN: The continuation. Filling in the holes. There's a lot of stuff I didn't discuss in the first book.

AJ: You say that having written 800 pages.

SEVEN: The next one won't be so long. But, you never know with me. I involve so many people. I have 5-6 pages of special thanks to all the people who were a part of my life. I don't think I have to thank them all in the second book, do I?

AJ: I don't think so.

SEVEN: I think being associated with me once is enough.

AJ: Depends who you're talking to. Your ex-wife might say that's too much.

SEVEN: Right, exactly. I think she probably deserves special thanks.

AJ: She deserves something for all the stories she spawned. She also gave you a daughter. She did something good for you.

SEVEN: Yeah, she did. What am I going to say? She gave me my daughter. You're right.

AJ: Was there any musical heritage that continued down?

SEVEN: She tried a little music, but it wasn't her path. I discouraged her as much as possible.

AJ: For someone not related to you who might want to pursue music, would you discourage them also or encourage them? What advice would you give?

SEVEN: I always think of this kid when I worked at the computer store. This kid came in with his family to buy a computer. This kid was 6'2", good looking, real smart. He said he was looking for a Mac for a music set-up. I could just tell this kid was as bright as anything. I looked at him & said 'How are your grades?' I just knew it when he said straight A's, 4.0 kinda stuff. I said 'You want to go into music?' He said yeah. I looked at him & said 'You know, kid, I'll make you a deal. I'll tell you, my father was in the music business & I have been in it since I was a baby. The day I was born was my father's first day in recording. I had every opportunity possible in the music business to make it & it's super tough & it's super unforgiving. Why don't you go to medical school? Why don't you just take a day or 2 & really think about this purchase, because I'm 46 years old & I work in a computer store, yet I engineered one of 'Rolling Stone' magazine's top 500 albums of all time. So, why don't you go home & think about that & if you want to still be in the music business I'll sell you a computer.' He never came back.

AJ: There goes that commission, but you may have done better, in another way.

SEVEN: I never made commission. I didn't care about commission anyway. If I had made commission I would have had 6 figures in my bank account.

AJ: So, here you go recommending to someone to not go into music & you say that as someone whose spent 5 decades working in music. You have played in bands, but many of us know you as an engineer, a producer, a composer before anything else. The old theory is that the musicians aren't making money. It's the ones behind the scenes who make money. But, that's not necessarily true either.

SEVEN: Recording engineers very rarely make money. You didn't get points on the record. You get paid by the hour.

AJ: People in your field don't really get enough credit, let alone money. Nobody ever talks about the engineer or the guy who mastered the album or numerous other console jobs. Even the cover artists suffer. People who don't know music don't know what you do. I mean, aren't you, Seven, just the guy that sets the microphone up?

SEVEN: I'm an addict. I am an addict of the music industry. My thing is, when I was a kid I was always setting goals. I wanted to be an assistant engineer & when I was there then I wanted to be an engineer, & from there I wanted to be a producer. Through that there's a sidebar where I'm a musician the whole way through. I was worst musician in the world. I really was. It was true for a long time & then something happened. A friend gave me a Strat guitar & it changed the way I played. It just created magic. I can't explain it. ... So, I was lucky & could experiment & discover, but I wouldn't recommend the music industry to anyone. Its a very unforgiving drug. It's not only cost me relationships, but it's cost me ...

AJ: Sanity?

SEVEN: I willingly gave up sanity.

AJ: I think part of it is when you were young & your father was still working it was a slightly different world.

SEVEN: Phil Ramone, Bob Ludwig, Elliot Scheiner, all the behind the scenes gods of NY all came from A&R Recordings, my dad's studio. It was a different world. It used to be fun. In the old days you got signed because you were different. Then the BEATLES & all that stuff kinda changed it where the music industry realized 'Fuck it, they have the BEATLES, let's get HERMAN'S HERMITS, which will be our own version of the BEATLES.' You know what I mean? That cloning. Then disco came. Disco was like 'Not only are we going to sound like the last artist that played, but we're going to do it at the exact same tempo.' Everything had to have that boring double high-hat. I hated disco. Hated it.

AJ: Disco was just a music factory churning out the exact same song over & over until trends changed.

SEVEN: Look at these new bands. Look at alternative music. How many of these are same sounding bands? By the way, why even play in tempo? Let's play behind the beat. STONE TEMPLE PILOTS were great for that shit. It's like being in the RAMONES, '1, 2, 3, rest'.

AJ: I find the RAMONES & the SEX PISTOLS obnoxious for that reason.

SEVEN: I love the SEX PISTOLS.

AJ: I grew up on YES & prog rock. After YES guitarist Steve Howe's classical weavings how can I turn to the RAMONES?

SEVEN: RUSH was a big influence in my life for many years.

AJ: Are you a music cynic, Seven? Do you believe there's no more good music? No more guitar heroes? No more Steve Howes? That the young music sucks such as folks like to say in the media?

SEVEN: Nope. I'm not like that. I will say, people say that disco really hurt the music industry & maybe it did, but it actually kept a good portion of the industry alive. Rap music was phenomenal until it lost its path. Rap music used to be a way for the people who listened to it to get information with great beats & stuff behind it. Now its just guns, fucking bitches, how much can I drink. Kanye West ... Sorry, I'm not supposed to mention him.

AJ: You created a No Kanye Zone on facebook. You can't break it now.

SEVEN: That's right, I created a No Kanye Zone. But, its unbelievable. The bad thing about hip-hop was there was no publishing. No one covers hip-hop songs, so the publishing industry took a very big hit. No muzak is hip-hop. That music rarely plays on the radio.

AJ: I never really thought of that.

SEVEN: That's why the publishing industry was in such a panic & in such a bad way. There's no covers of rap songs.

AJ: While you have contributed to countless rap albums, like PUBLIC ENEMY, so you are very familiar with that world.

SEVEN: I did PUBLIC ENEMY's Fear Of A Black Planet. I worked on Ice Cube's solo debut Ameri-ka-ka-ka's Most Wanted. I worked with ROCK MASTER SCOTT & THE DYNAMIC 3. You remember those guys? "The Roof Is On Fire."

AJ: That was the good old days of rap.

SEVEN: I did their next record or a couple of records after that. I worked with Terminator X. There were so many rap groups that I worked with. But, look at LEADERS OF THE NEW SCHOOL with Busta Rhymes. They pretty much put the nail in the coffin for me with rap music, because when they did their second & last album T.I.M.E. (The Inner Mind's Eye) it didn't make sense. The way they put the record together just wouldn't work, so they came to me & they said 'You're the guy that helped with all those inserts on the PUBLIC ENEMY album.' Yeah, I came up with a lot of shit. So, they asked if I could help them. I said, 'Okay, here's the deal. I gotta get writing credit. I want a producer credit.' He guaranteed it to me. It was the kinda thing where they were very much in a rush to do it. We shook hands on it & made a deal. Then when the album came out there was no production credit whatsoever & Charlie Brown said those were all his ideas. After that point I was pretty much fried. Then you read about what I went through with Busta Rhymes, in my book. He's a real narcissist. What can I tell you? They're the reason why rap music is so fucked up. They don't want to share the credit.

AJ: Is he the one in your book, I remember one story all too well, where this guy was listening back to the music in the studio & it was so loud it almost made your eardrums bleed?

SEVEN: That was Hank Shocklee of the BOMB SQUAD. I was doing, I think it was, "Joy & Pain" the Frankie Beverly remix. He was listening so loud. He turned the knob on the console all the way up & then kept turning it until it broke its threading. It was just spinning. So, I said to Hank, 'Listen, I gotta work in the morning. I need my ears. You're hurting me.' He just looked at me & said, 'What's your problem?' I said, 'Nothing, but you're hurting my ears. I need my ears. It's really violently loud.' He goes, 'Just keep working.' So, I actually put earplugs in & I put headphones on that weren't plugged in. It was still blasting loud. The next day Hank went to the owner of the studio & said he didn't want to work with me anymore. The owner asked why? Hank really said, 'Alan doesn't like black people.' I don't like black people? Just because I didn't want to listen so loud that my ears bleed? That's the story of hip-hop, really, when you think about it.

AJ: That was one of my favorite stories from the book. So, now I have to ask, who was the best person you worked with over the years, either as a fellow musician or engineer?

SEVEN: I worked with Ronnie Ventura, who produced the JACKSONS, Gloria Estefan. I did dance music for him & rock & pop music. He's phenomenal. He's one of my top clients. He's one of my favorite people to work with. I loved working with Chuck D. I really did love working with him. He was a lot of fun to work with back then, as he was pure art. The reason that Chuck D loved me was not only did I get everything really clean & present, but there was nothing he couldn't dream up that I couldn't bring to life sonically. My big thing in audio is depth of field. I love painting this 3 dimensional picture that comes out of 2 speakers. I'm not a 5.1 surround sound guy. I'm an old guy. I believe that if you can't make it come out of these 2 speakers then god bless you. But, a lot of people are making a lot of money remixing the music for surround sound where you need 40 speakers to listen. But, Chuck D was great. Though, when it was time to do his solo album he went to the studio I was working at & they're like 'You're gonna work with Alan, right?' He's like 'Nah, Alan is about cigarettes. He smokes too many cigarettes.' That's why he didn't want to work with me, instead of just saying 'hey, can you not smoke in the control room.' For the creative process: Ronnie Ventura, Chuck D. These are some of my favorite people that I worked with. Recently I worked for the organization C.O.P.S. or Concerns Of Police Survivors. They're doing like a tribute album for cops. But, that's been on hold since my back has been bad. The very top of the list is guitarist Mitch Diamond, as I've said. Working on his Diamond album was really incredible. I wish I hadn't been so fucked up at the time. It could have sounded a lot better.

AJ: To return to something you just said about the sound mix. The majority of people that are listening to music are not listening to it on surround sound. We're listening to music on our phones & small headphones & things as far from surround sound as you can get. So, you were mixing really for the way most people listen to music.

SEVEN: I'm so glad we work hard on these mixes so you can listen on your phone. The hard part is, & you can quote me, if I connect a positive & negative lead to my anus it'll sound just like an iphone speaker. So, I'm so glad the entire world is listening so critically to these incredible mixes through my anus.

AJ: What's even better is if the internet connection isn't good the music stops streaming midway through.

SEVEN: On youtube I click on that little icon that says HD, you know to get the better quality of the video, but I really just want to hear the audio the best it can be. Than I look at the original upload quality of some of this stuff & I just want to jump out the window. What are you going to do? There's a great story from the book I'll tell you. When I was a kid & had my vinyl records ... I still listen to vinyl, by the way. I think that its the truest, most delicious media ... You know STEELY DAN's Aja was mixed at my father's studio. Elliot Scheiner, who was a good friend of my father, mixed that album. When Aja came out in 1977 I used to lay in bed at night & listen to that album & go 'One day, I'm not going to work with STEELY DAN's producer Gary Katz & I'm going to be the guy.' When it came time to work with JAY & THE AMERICANS, sure enough, when I got there to work with the co-producer with the new Jay, Jay Black, as Jay Traynor lost his name in bankruptcy court, he said to me they were thinking of bringing Gary Katz in to work with me & would I be cool with that? Of course! It would be great to work with him. It was my dream. The first time he comes to the studio I'm giving him the tour of the big room explaining the set-up. I'm telling him how we're using Japanese wiring for the multi-tracks to get a great warm sound on digital. He just goes 'No one cares.' If Gary Katz says no one cares that hurts, you know what I mean? But, the thing is, it's true. If you guys are listening to these songs on those tiny little speakers ... there's a saying in Yiddish: go with God Or, there's fuck you.

AJ: That's the state of the record industry.

SEVEN: The music industry set itself up for failure, putting a noose around their own neck, by not investing in new artists & not adopting mp3 technology when it happened. No, they said, 'Fuck that, we're going to squash it. We're going to sue them & sue their kids & this mp3 thing will go away. We're going to keep selling our $22 CD's & keep giving the artist fuck all. We'll still be fat pigs.' What they failed to realize was you can only starve people for so long. It hurt. But, finally they figured out where the food was, that is online, & guess what, they were going to eat. But, really it hurt music sales. It hurt all the artists as they weren't getting paid all the royalties anymore. I gotta say, U2 I think is brilliant, giving away their album Songs Of Innocence on iTunes free like that. They said fuck it. They decided their fans were so awesome they were going to give them all the album for free. Let them pay for concert tickets. Right?

AJ: I haven't heard the album, as I don't have itunes, but it was actually pretty genius, I'll agree. I don't know why so many were upset. Who doesn't like free stuff? I didn't quite get the backlash.

SEVEN: You know the story of LINKIN PARK? They were getting no push from their label. They uploaded their album to mp3.com & at every gig they did they said you could go to mp3.com & download the whole album for free. They did this without the record company's permission nor knowledge. They said if you like the album than go buy the real thing. Next thing you know their album is selling really well. Brilliant. They taught the music industry a lesson & the industry still said fuck you.

AJ: The music industry didn't fix the problem or deal with it early on & now its too late. Now they can't & they are upset the problem can't be fixed their way. Even if they sue people it's still too late.

SEVEN: They're suing a lady because her kid downloaded music.

AJ: That's going to have about as much effect as Gene Simmons of KISS getting into the news & shitting on something, like he does. It'll only make more people upset, not stop the problem.

SEVEN: Talk about building a brand. Look at Gene.

AJ: I think he's a jerk & I'm not a KISS fan, but Paul & Gene created an industry & brand that is undeniably untouchable. I will give them credit for working hard for a long time to build that brand.

SEVEN: But, they've hurt the brand so badly.

AJ: It's not about the music anymore though, it's about the experience & these more-than-human participants.

SEVEN: I was a huge KISS fan as a child. Dressed To Kill was one of my favorite albums.

AJ: Speaking of favorite albums, when Seven the music guy likes to relax & just enjoy music, plain & simple, what does he listen to? What's his musical sweet tooth?

SEVEN: Everything from like Paul McCartney's Ram & John Lennon's Imagine. I like Mozart & Bach. I like METALLICA ... but, the later METALLICA. I'm the opposite of all the METALLICA fans that like the early stuff. For me, its the black album on.

AJ: Did you like the Lulu album with Lou Reed?

SEVEN: That was horrid. That was a really bizarre.

AJ: I'm a big Lou Reed fan, so for me it was METALLICA that failed, not him. He did what he always does. Though, his poetry was more bizarre than usual.

SEVEN: I love Lou, too, but that's a bad Lou Reed album.

AJ: He makes plenty of bad albums.

SEVEN: It's horrible. My favorite METALLICA album is S&M when they're with the symphony. Just hearing those old songs done new with that symphony orchestra just gives it so much power. It's funny. I love bands like TONIC. I think they were really great. Since I met Mitch Diamond I've been a gigantic DEEP PURPLE & RAINBOW fan, even though he would laugh at me because I'm a newer DEEP PURPLE & RAINBOW fan. My old keyboard player John Ruotolo used to beg me to listen to RAINBOW. I'd be like 'Not on your life.' I was too young. I was too into RUSH & KISS & stuff like that. It was just too above my head at the time, but now one of my favorite albums is DEEP PURPLE's Burn.

AJ: I love that album with David Coverdale & Glenn Hughes. "Stormbringer", "Burn", I love those songs.

SEVEN: I can play "Burn" on drums. It's a fun tune.

AJ: Richie Blackmore is one of my guys. He's my Hendrix. ... Seven, I have no more prepared questions. Is there any more you want to talk about that we haven't?

SEVEN: There are some things I want to express that I think are really important. I think in this day of Pro Tools every kid goes to audio school & he walks out saying he wants to be a producer. Then he takes dad's credit card & he goes to the store & buys padding for the walls & then he goes to the guitar store & buys Pro Tools & microphones, whatever. He opens up a studio & sells studio time for $10 an hour. I have a very important message. Just because you can buy a scalpel doesn't make you a surgeon. Just because you can cut open a frog & you can cut a steak, I don't think you want to remove a heart in an operating room. I think if people realize that then the music industry will come back. I truly believe the music industry can come back. The recording industry can come back when people realize they're not doing themselves any justice by making their own albums. It's cool once in awhile. I mean, BOSTON did it. The first BOSTON album was done in a house. A-HA "Take On Me" is another one. There are exceptions to the rule where people will make their own albums & it will work.

AJ: But, also many of those people kinda knew what they are doing.

SEVEN: Either that or they were just so super gifted. In this Pro Tools world bands are cheating themselves. That's something I really want to get the word out on. Don't cheat yourself. Why would you produce your own album if you can afford to hire a producer? You're really cheating your own dreams. The art of recording is in a coma. It's not dead. It's just in a coma & its waiting to wake up & its waiting to come back. There are guys like myself who are waiting. We are waiting for that time when people come back & want that craft & that art. They just want to make records for people who appreciate having records made for them. Just do what you do & get paid for it &do it right. But, that's not happening, because these guys aren't recording engineers. They went & bought ProTools & some great speakers, but do you know what it costs to build a proper studio to get a recording environment neutral so you can hear properly or track or to mix properly? People are missing that. Plug-ins. That's a great thing to talk about.

AJ: The floor is yours. Go ahead.

SEVEN: You know when you go to a bar & you get a soda, right? You notice that the ginger ale takes like Coke & the Coke tastes like 7-Up? They all have the same kind of taste? Welcome to digital recording. One of the things that made audio so incredible & special was plugging into compressors, limiters, etc. All these things had different sounds. It was almost like cooking. You know in a good Italian sauce you can taste the oregano, garlic, tomatoes, yet they work in this wonderful synchronicity where everything is working together, helping each other to tasting great. In digital everything is going in & out the same way & it all tastes the same. All these records have such a similar sound to them. People aren't using different recording consoles, different compressors, different wire. When I master with Greg Calbi - this is very important - he even uses different types of wire to see how it'll sound. Wire has a sound. Like we talk about albums & that terrific sound of vinyl. Now it's gone. Now you're listening to it through an inadequate speaker. Or, how about this, remember when you still bought records you'd put the needle down on track one & listen to the entire record. Then you'd flip it over & listen to side 2. Then you looked at the album cover & read the credits. It was all very tangible. It was a very physical experience. You invited your friends over & you all listened to this record. It was an experience. That's fucking gone. We have to bring that experience back. In the end it's a soundtrack to your life.

AJ: I remember the the first time I heard YES's Close To The Edge, I literally sat on my bed & listened to the vinyl while pouring through the liner notes & investigating the cover, which was made of a particular paper to have a unique rough feel. I was reading the lyrics & had them nearly memorized by the time I was done listening the first time through.

SEVEN: I would sit on my parents carpet with headphones on & my father would put on a record & we'd sit together & read the lyrics to BEATLES songs. I fell in love with music. That love in me is still alive. Loving music is a great engineer's life. Jay Messina ... 2 albums he did were nominated for Grammys. Jim is coming over to my house this weekend. I still see these guys. My father's studio friends come & visit every few months. I love it. It brings my childhood right back.

AJ: I'm always telling my girlfriend about liner notes & whose who. I've read liner notes like they are novels & learned so much. I want to know who is who. But, that's a lost art.

SEVEN: That's all very important to me. I think that covers it. I said what I wanted to say. It's really important that people need to realize the need to rediscover the value of an engineer & a producer & the whole process. Even going to a studio, not your home. There is a music industry that wants that, but people have to want that again. There's more to it than basements & Pro Tools. There's an art. I lean on an old school mentality as a engineer in a new digital world. I think that makes real rich & interesting productions. There is a sonic experience that is lacking. That's super important to me. I think that's my final message.

"We Do A Re-Working Of A Tribe Called Quest" An Interview With JOE DENINZON

2016-10-09T10:53:00.000-07:00

Click here to visit the official website of Joe Deninzon.
Click here to visit the official website of Stratospheerius.

June 2012 (live phone interview, broadcast on The World of Trans-Siberian Orchestra Podcast Eps 88)

The NYC quartet Stratospheerius defies labels has it fuses funk, jazz, rock, classical, country & classical seemlessly & unpretentiously. So many bands put a classical riff against a Led Zeppelin melody & consider it unique (even if the drummer of Led Zeppelin was a major classical music fan & already did the mix), but Stratospheerius takes the soup a step further nearly creating their own musical fusion genre that needs to be listened to, if not watched, to truly understand. Part of the magic comes from the frontman in violinist-singer-composer Joe Deninzon, who has been labeled the Hendrix of violin, though references to Steve Vai are probably better placed. He's a teacher, including with the Mark Wood Orchestra Camp, Mark O'Connor's String Camp & co-founder of the Grand Canyon School of Rock. He authored the Mel Bay instructional violin book Plugging In. Outside of Stratospheerius he also plays in his own jazz trio, the Sweet Plantain String Quartet fusing latin jazz/classical/hip-hop & the Robert Bonfiglio Group, for starters. Elsewhere his violin has been heard alongside Sheryl Crow, Blackmore's Night, Bruce Springsteen & others.

I had the opportunity to see Stratospheerius live in a small Harlem club, invited by a friend whose daughter was one of Denizon's violin students. The show was the CD release party of their new album The Next World..., but it was rumored the band would be joined by a former member who was invited to impromptu jam with them. Even after the group took the stage nothing was confirmed ... until Alex Skolnick showed up guitar in hand. Skolnick is known for his work with thrash titans Testament, Savatage, Trans-Siberian Orchestra & an extensive solo career including funk & jazz-rock. Skolnick's unique chordal approach against Stratospheerius's punch made for a mind-blowing night. Not so long after Denizon joined me on a live broadcast of my World Of Trans-Siberian Orchestra podcast for a nearly 30 minute interview. Obviously, he qualified for my show via Skolnick who had played with TSO, but I knew going in that I only wanted his work with Skolnick but a mention of a far bigger & far more interesting musical life that needs no qualifiers.

Special thanks to Dan Roth, whose daughter learned violin under Joe & invited me to the show & to booking manager Ann Leighton who arranged the interview & put a CD in my hand literally fresh out of the box.

*****

AJ: We met briefly at your concert at The Shrine a few weeks ago. I was blown away by STRATOPHEERIUS.

JOE: Thank you so much.

AJ: You guys absolutely rock.

JOE: Thanks so much. Really appreciate that. It was a really special night for us.

AJ: The bonus was that I got to see your former member Alex Skolnick jam with you, too.

JOE: That was a last minute thing & we hadn't played together in 8 years. So, it was really cool. A really beautiful moment.

AJ: Joe, I want to ask you about the band & your new album, The Next World, & also about the other things that you do, as you've got a diverse resume. But, first, how would you describe STRATOPHEERIUS?

JOE: Descriptions are really a hard thing for us.

AJ: I've heard that this is one of the hurdles you run into, because reviewers & promoters don't know how to describe the band.

JOE: It's not like I set out to create a band that defies description. It was just a culmination of my musical influences. I guess you could call us a rock'n'roll band, but its so much more than that. So many different things melted into one.

AJ: How do you describe the band to somebody who maybe has not heard you? Or, do you not try?

JOE: I have to try, because when we're trying to book the bank or convince people to let us play in their festival or in their gig or whatever we have to explain what it is, but ultimately they just have to listen to us. I used to call it psycho jazz electric fiddle trip funk. But, that didn't totally fit.

AJ: That's a mouthful.

JOE: It is. So, I say now, its a mixture of progressive rock, funk, jazz, blues, metal, gypsy music, you know, a little bit of jam band thrown in, all played on an electric violin.

AJ: That's still a mouthful. I know when I was listening to you guys I heard everything. You introduced one song as having some LED ZEPPELIN & then there's another song that's right out of the bluegrass world. So, you guys really are all over the place. But, that's not a detriment. Your new album, The Next World... is really strong even though it's a range of musical styles.

JOE: Thank you. My biggest challenge over the years has been to really focus & I've developed this sound over many years. My earlier albums I've been criticized for being all over the musical map. There would be a jazzy type tune, a fusion-esque song, a straight up hard rock song. My favorite bands of the 70's, like QUEEN & LED ZEPPELIN, used to have albums that spanned the stylistic gamut. My issue with a lot of stuff that comes out these days is you hear a song on the radio you like & you buy the album, but all the songs sound exactly like that. You want to yawn. I guess its just the nature of the business right now, but I've always admired artists that were maybe under the umbrella of rock or hard rock or whatever, but within that had so many different variations in different areas, acoustic, more ambient kind of stuff, you know. MUSE is a band that comes to mind. I think they embody that spirit more than a lot of other bands today. Anyways, that's what I've been striving for, but still within a signature STRATOPHEERIUS sound.

AJ: It's a tightrope walk, really.

JOE: It really is. You've got to learn to edit yourself & stand back & see the big picture. When you're making an album you're so deep in it's hard to really ... in hindsight you're like, 'So, that's what that was.'

AJ: 'I didn't know I had that in me.'

JOE: Exactly.

AJ: Moving to the songs, when I listened to your album there was one song that stood out for me. Actually, there were many, but one stood out so much both musically & lyrically so much that I actually found a youtube video of it that I sent to some to some friends encouraging them to listen to your music. I guess you could call this my favorite.

JOE: I'm dying to know which one.

AJ: It's simply called "Gods." I love the lyrics. They are really simple, but really cool. Catchy, singable & memorable.

JOE: Thanks.

AJ: The band started back in 2001. You've gone through numerous members & lots of changes, both musically & in your own life. Some folks who know you might say your membership is one of your more memorable traits, not just the lyrics. One particular past member has quite a reputation. Former SAVATAGE, TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA & TESTAMENT thrash guitarist Alex Skolnick. Would you mind giving some history of the time when you had Alex in the band?

JOE: It was a very funny turn of events. It was kinda random. I used to teach at NYC's New School University, the extended studies program at night. They had this music program & I taught violin. I was walking out of there one day - this was just a few years after I'd moved to NYC - & I saw an ad for a student recital listing a bunch of people in a Miles Davis ensemble. It said Alex Skolnick. I wondered if it was the same Alex Skolnick from TESTAMENT & what in the world would he being doing here at the New School in a student recital? I grew up listening to heavy metal. I had posters of Alex & all those guys in my room. Zakk Wylde & Kirk Hammett & all these guys. I used to be a guitarist. I used to subscribe to Guitar Player magazine where Alex had an educational column. He was a celebrity in my eyes & a lot of other peoples, of course. So, I went to the recital & there he was. It was the Alex Skolnick. I went up to him. At the time I was finishing my Master's degree at the Manhattan School of Music. I introduced myself & asked how he came to be there. He said he was doing his Bachelor's degree in jazz guitar, because he loved jazz. I vaguely remember reading an early interview with him a few years back where he was talking about how he loved Michael Brecker & Pat Metheny. He just had this interest in jazz. He was like the only metal guy I knew who also loved jazz, which I thought was very unique. I could also relate to that, because I was a huge jazz fan, as well. I mean, I was majoring in jazz. He said he got bored playing metal. He quit the scene & moved to NY & wanted to sorta start fresh & decided to finally do his undergrad. It's really bizarre. A few weeks later I mustered up the nerve ... I had this gig & I was trying to put a band together to play my music. I had a CD I had recorded in Cleveland where I grew up. So, I sort of hesitantly asked if he'd like to play & he was like "Yeah, sure, let's do it." I was really surprised. Anyway, we ended up playing together a lot. We became best friends & he ended up playing with what became STRATOPHEERIUS, for about 3 years. He recorded on 2 albums of ours. It was a period in his life when he was he going back to school & sorta starting over. When his trio got really busy & he started playing with TRAN-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA again & with TESTAMENT again, he got too busy to play with us after awhile. But, it was a fun period to have him in the band.

AJ: Excellent.

JOE: It was definitely an era I'll remember as long as I live. He's a great guy. Great player. It was fun to get to know somebody personally who I grew up with listening to as a kid.

AJ: Then here you are, 8 or so years later, you bring him on stage to celebrate the new CD release.

JOE: We stayed in touch. We've both been very busy, but we've been trying to come up with situations to play together again.

AJ: It's hard to do when one's on the road & you both stay pretty active.

JOE: You do what you can. We've been talking about organizing more of a duo gig in the city, more of a jazz thing. Like an acoustic jazz kinda situation.

AJ: That's cool.

JOE: We'll get around to it hopefully soon.

AJ: You just said you started on guitar. How did you go from that from that to the violin, which is surrounded by this classical aura, the complete opposite.

JOE: The truth is I actually started on violin. I come from a family of classical musicians. My father is a member of the CLEVELAND ORCHESTRA. Classical violinist, pure 100% classical violinist. He's been playing in that orchestra for 33 years & that's a world re-known orchestra. My mother is a classical pianist. I grew up with music in the house, but it was all classical. When we immigrated from Russia when I was 4 years old all I knew was classical music. My father stuck a violin in my hand when I was 6 & I went through the Suzuki method. That's like the most common method taught in the U.S. My dad taught me for awhile. I just did the typical book 1, book 2, book 3, the typical repertoire of the classical violin. At some point when I was 10 I just turned on the radio & heard this really cool music that fascinated me. It was rock'n'roll, pop music. I started watching MTV. I was adjusting to life in the States. There was a language barrier, a culture barrier. I wanted to fit in. Everyone knew I played music, but I felt like this was just a great way of communicating with people. It really just tugged at my heart strings. Around age 13 I took up the electric bass, because no one else was playing bass. I figured violin has 4 strings, bass has 4 strings. That was actually the first instrument I learned to improvise on. I formed some bands in high school & I taught myself guitar when I was 15. I got really into guitar. I used to worship folks like Alex & Steve Vai, of course Hendrix. I was totally into hard rock/metal guitar. Later I got into jazz with Pat Metheny, John Scofield, John McLaughlin. So, bass & guitar were the instruments I learned to improvise on. But, at the same time I was leading a parallel life just playing classical violin, going to youth orchestras, going to lessons. At one point when I was 17 I heard a recording of Jean-Luc Ponty & Stephane Grappelli something clicked in my mind. 'Wow, these guys are doing something on the violin that I didn't even know that was possible.' Around the same time I got an opportunity to play with Michael Stanley. He's a pretty well-known singer-songwriter in Cleveland. He saw me play & he asked me to play violin with his band. It was just some cool bluesy kinda rock'n'roll. I just fell into it. I already knew the musical language. I just had to transfer it to the violin. So, that's sorta how my path was set. Then I listened to Jerry Goodman with MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA & Sugar Kane Harris with Zappa & I was like 'That's it, this is what I'm meant to do. It combines the instrument that I've played all my life with the music I love so dearly.' That's sorta how it came about.

AJ: You mentioned John McLaughlin, a guitarist who I also really like. He really created a fusion of rock, jazz & ethnic music. His violinists pushed what the violin could do & they it did it without drugs, no less. This is exactly what you've done. Do you see any change these days in how kids, since you're a teacher, or people in general approach the violin? Is it still the instrument good only for classical music or country fiddle & just gimmicky in the rock world or is it now seen as an instrument much more diverse than it has traditionally appeared? That's a big question, I know.

JOE: It's a great question. It's really amazing to me that an instrument that's been around for literally hundreds of years that the bar has been set so high in the classical world. When you play the Tchaikovksy "Violin Concerto" you think of all the incredible players that have played it. You can't help but ask yourself, 'What am I going to say with this "Concerto" that hasn't already been said, you know?' The instrument has been around so long, but yet I still see so much uncharted territory for it, even after all this time. I think we're just scrapping the tip of the iceberg. I also think in the last 15-20 years there's been a surge of young players that not only have a great classical foundation, but also are hip to playing blues or jazz or rock or thinking outside the traditional box of what the instrument can do. I think part of that is you see a lot more string players in bands, like the DAVE MATTHEWS BAND or TANTRIC. Also, the Mark O'Conner fiddle camp that's been around for decades. Mark Wood has been travelling around schools doing his Electrify Your Strings program for a long time. For the second year in a row I'm teaching at his Mark Wood Rock Orchestra Camp. All these educational things really come into play. We're seeing the results of that. Also, in NY I book string players for different occasions as a contractor. I also have a rock string quartet I play with. So, I get to know a lot of string players & I see more & more people that can really just rock out. 10 years I might have had a much smaller pool of people to choose from. So, you know, there's so much you can do with the violin. I play a traditional 4 string violin, but I also play an electric 7 string fretted violin that can play power chords & walk bass lines & do all kinds of stuff like that.

AJ: I noticed when I saw you live you had the Viper 7 string. I'm curious, with the frets on it does that actually make a difference or is that just more of a visual thing that you can't feel, more like a fretless guitar?

JOE: For me, as a singer who sings & plays violins simultaneously, it just helps. It helps me get oriented. Also, in live situations the monitoring might not always be ideal, so it also helps knowing that you're really on when you can't hear. It's the same reasons you might want to play a fretted guitar versus a fretless guitar. But, that being said, I'm not going to say that everyone should buy a fretless violin. I play both. I want to see the age when ... most guitarists I know have an acoustic they bring on certain gigs. They have an electric they bring on certain gigs. I want to see that with string players. The other thing, in order to survive as a musician, to make a living, you have to be able to do it all. You have to be able to play in an orchestra. You have to be able to improvise. You have to be able to understand how to play electric violin & work with effects & perform, not just sit in a pit reading music. There's a lot of skills serious musicians have to have. That's what I've been advocating.

AJ: You just mentioned a rock string quartet. Is that the SWEET PLANTAIN QUARTET?

JOE: No, that's my other quartet. I'm in a lot of different bands. SWEET PLANTAIN is an acoustic group that I joined 2 years ago. This is a really cool band. It's basically mixes classical, Latin, jazz & hip-hop music in a traditional string quartet format. The cellist raps & the other violinist doubles on trombone. I sing & play violin & mandolin. We do originals & arrangements of Jobim & different jazz & Latin tunes. We do a reworking of A TRIBE CALLED QUEST. It's a very interesting group.

AJ: Joe, you're mentioning diversity. I think of the funky little ska influenced "Tech Support" from the new album that comes out of nowhere.

JOE: I thought it would be a good song to tick off prog fans. It's the last kind of style you would expect to hear with a band known as a progressive rock band.

AJ: But, for you guys it's funky. It's not straight ska. It opens traditional but goes funky.

JOE: It goes into a heavy rock thing at one point.

AJ: You mentioned earlier in passing someone you work with & before we parted I wanted to mention him again. I consider him a real renaissance guy when it comes to music due to his work not just as a musician but also as an educator, while he's also a violin maker. I really admire his work. He's really tried to change how people view the violin. I'm talking about Mark Wood, who with his wife, vocalist Laura Kaye & folks like yourself, is really inspiring a new generation of young musicians. Would you mind sharing a little bit about the experience of working with Mark?

JOE: He's a very inspiring guy. He built my Viper 7 string. I take my cue from him. I've also been going into the schools & doing a lot of clinics & residencies & improvisation workshops. I do this both on my own & with STRATOSPHEERIUS or SWEET PLANTAIN. Mark has been doing that since the late 90's. He's one of reasons we're witnessing a change in the string world. I think in a few years you'll see even more of us in rock bands & doing all this kind of crazy stuff. The camp is a really special experience. I was there for the first time teaching last summer. It's in Kansas in mid-July. It's mostly high school kids & they're just like I was when I was their age. They have this intense love for music that's maybe outside the classical realm, but they all grew up playing classical. They're so passionate & really want to do something or be creative with their instruments. It's really fun to feel like you are inspiring them. It's a really great community. All the other people on the faculty are also really great, in their own right. I have the deepest respect for Mark, everything he's done for the violin & for music education.

AJ: In your playing, do you ever have a situation where there's maybe a parent of a student or maybe they've just seen you perform & they come up to you & say something like 'Joe, you're really good, but how dare you do this on the violin? You're hurting the legacy of this instrument.'

JOE: Not that I recall. I've actually been able to turn people around. I went to a pretty conservative music school for my undergrad. All the faculty were these old school classical legends. But, all these teachers sorta accepted me on my own terms. They knew I was a jazz guy & a rock guy & I was there to work on my classical technique, but they never tried to push me into being something I wasn't. I sorta forced them to respect me & appreciate what I did. I think everyone's on a mission to expand people's minds, that is everyone who plays what could be called alternative styles on a string instrument. The whole conservative classical mentality is dying out. I think people are a lot more hip to what's going on, even the older generation. My parents, who very much came up in the traditional classical environment, whatever they were thinking they never said it to me. They were always supportive. The further I went along the more they totally just kept cheering me on. That really helped me out. I can't really think of a time I had to fight the power. I try to avoid people like that. I knew what I wanted, or I knew what I didn't want.

AJ: Joe, we're down to the last few minutes. I want to say a big thank you for talking with me tonight. It was a bit of a struggle finding a night where you were free, so it means a lot that you would take some more time away from your family to talk with me.

JOE: Thanks, it was a pleasure.

"It's My Own Fault For Making Up That Melody" An Interview With GRAHAM BONNET of ALCATRAZZ, RAINBOW

2016-02-27T12:44:00.004-08:00

May 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #19)

British metal vocalist Graham Bonnet is most famous for replacing Ronnie James Dio in Rainbow, featuring guitar icon Richie Blackmore, followed by fronting Alcatrazz that helped propel the careers of guitarist Yngwie Malmsteen & Steve Vai. While Bonnet is also famous for cutting his hair short & looking more like a James Dean inspired 1950's rocker than a long hair metal singer. But, outside of these two famous gigs he's also had an extensive solo career, guesting on numerous albums, & singing & touring with an array of musicians & one off groups, including the Michael Schenker Group, Impellitteri, Blackthorne with Bruce Kulick, Japan's Anthem, the Taz Taylor Band, the Rainbow tribute band Catch The Rainbow. At the time of this interview he was discussing a new album by Alcatrazz, which would be their first since 1983, but instead he'd find himself playing with the new Graham Bonnet Band experimenting with a softer rock side. In 2016 his official biography is set to be released.

As a 34th birthday gift to myself I invited Graham to be a guest for an hour on my podcast. As I tell in the interview I'd discovered his voice not so long earlier & was an instant fan, slowly listening my way through his extensive catalog. I was looking forward to this interview for months & he was the first high profile guest I'd had on my show, stepping up from more regionally known musicians. It ended up being a wonderful hour as we discussed everything that doesn't get typically mentioned in an interview. I had already decided I would not bore him with the same questions about singing with Malmsteen or Blackmore, even though the later is one of my personal guitar gods, as not just had he been asked those questions too often but they focused on the other guys not Graham. I didn't know my modest questions would lead into a discussion of his R&B background, singing with the Bee Gees, his musical heroes & even bike riding, let alone some very honest statements about his career. His openness & joy when talking made me feel instantly at ease, versus pacing the floor nervous which I really was. It also helped that earlier in the day he'd sent me a personal e-mail, we'd communicated only through his assistant, & asked me to call him because of a question he had. It was a mix-up as I was one of 3 interviews scheduled, but talking to him before him really broke the ice for our interview later that night. I later ordered a personalized Alcatrazz DVD from him & have been awaiting the release of his biography. After the fact I received a nice comment from a listener in Canada whose the bassist & singer of the rock trio Guys With Wives. He said he'd grown up listening to the Marbles & patterned his vocals on their stuff. He didn't know until hearing my show that Graham Bonnet's first band was the Marbles, as Graham had moved into rock & metal & my friend had thus lost track of him. Hearing Guys With Wives the influence is obvious. I opened my show with a list of his many accomplishments, to which this transcription opens immediately after that.

*****

AJ: ... An absolute honor to have as my guest tonight, Mr. Graham Bonnet. Graham, I absolutely welcome you to my humble show & if I could roll out a red carpet from Manhattan to L.A. I absolutely would right now.

GRAHAM: That was such a great intro. Thank you very much. How can I follow ? You made me sound so ... are you talking about me?

AJ: Yes, I am!

GRAHAM: As you said, to replace Ronnie James Dio in RAINBOW was probably one of the hardest things I ever did because it was complete switch for me music-wise.

AJ: I have to confess, Richie Blackmore is my Hendrix. For me, one of the greatest guitar players in the world, so you were stepping into some humongous shoes, maybe even bigger than you even realized.

GRAHAM: Yeah, as you were saying, my background was more into the pop R&B kinda thing in the 60's, as that was what I was doing all my life, as I was telling you earlier today. I started basically when I was 19 years old. I was doing a completely different field to where I am now. What has happened to my career has taken a totally different direction than I ever thought would happen.

AJ: Do you ever get nostalgic? Like, 'Things aren't working out with my career right now, I wish RAINBOW still existed?' Or, 'I wish I was an unknown soul singer in the middle of England again.'

GRAHAM: All the time. Everyday. I was telling a friend of mine yesterday ... there's a guy writing a book about how I started in my music career. He's sending me photographs which were taken back when I was like 16/17 years old. I'm looking back & I think to myself I wish I could do that again. To do that again, to go back & do all these R&B songs that I used to do way back when. Play all those Chuck Berry songs, etc. I miss those times when I look back now. Now, somebody is writing a book about me, which is very flattering. It's incredible. I've known this guy for years & one day he says, 'Would you mind if I wrote a book about you?' Nobody else will, so why not you? Anyway, it's nice to look back. I do miss those times, because those were times when I was creatively hungry. I wanted to do something, I came from a small town. I was the only ... there was about 3 guitar players in town where I lived & nobody played drums, nobody played bass. But, if you had a drum kit you were in the band. If you had a bass you were suddenly playing bass. It was very difficult to find musicians to play with. But, I was in a couple of bands in my home town. We did okay. We played local bars, like everybody did back then & listened to all the BEATLES & ROLLING STONES records & things like that, Chuck Berry & did a lot of that kind of music. A lot of Otis Redding & Steve Wonder things. Whatever we could do, because back then you had to play everything, because you play probably like 3-4 hours or something.

AJ: Not like today.

GRAHAM: Yeah, yeah. 20 minutes, you know, or an hour & a half or something like that. But, you had to play that long & you'd take a break. Of course, the people in the audience that we'd play to, you know we'd play in bars & pubs in England, they wanted to hear all the hits. So we had to ... that was my upbringing, from playing everything from jazz things to pop, you know, everything. You had to be able to play every kind of music to please the audience & keep them listening or have them dancing or whatever. This is what I did & a lot of my friends did. The BEATLES did the same thing.

AJ: & the ROLLING STONES & all those bands. That was the way it was done. So different from today.

GRAHAM: You basically had to play everything, from waltzes to cha-cha-chas. All these horrible dance songs ... that were like, 'What am I doing here?' & getting paid like 2 or 3 bucks a night for doing it, playing like 4 hours. But, what a great learning experience it was for all of us. It later became very helpful to me, you know, finding jazz chords & things like that on my guitar that I never would have known unless I played that kind of music. That's what I brought to songs later on. & a lot of other guys did too who were in bands, that ilk, you know, back in the 60's. It was good schooling.

AJ: You've basically made your reputation for most people as a heavy metal or hard rock singer, but have you ever considered doing an album of the old stuff, going back to the soul or the Chuck Berry? Has that ever crossed your mind?

GRAHAM: Well, I've thought about it, but I think that would be like a luxury at the moment. It's something I would love to do one day, but at the moment I'm sort of in a bag of whatever it is right now. I'm stuck in this drawer of being this so called heavy rock singer, whatever you want to call me now. For me to suddenly change & do something totally R&B will be very strange for people, I think. Where's all that high singing & whatever else? It is something I'd love to do. But, at the moment, we really have to get a new album out for my band ALCATRAZZ, which is a new line-up now. I'd love to do that. To have the time to do that, but really I have to get something new band-wise. That is like the main thing, because I do a lot of sessions. I'm doing a few sessions now that I haven't finished yet & to do a new album with ALCATRAZZ or to do a new album with R&B type songs on it or whatever, for me, means time out & not actually working. That means being off the road. When you're in a studio you're not making money. It's not like it was. Back in the '60's people were throwing money at you to go into the studio for months on end. That's how I started & you're in there for however long it took to make the album. If it took 6 months, then it took 6 months. But, it's not like that anymore. Everybody ... or, I do, or most people, record at home now on ProTools. Everything is done by e-mail. Everybody e-mails their parts to each other. 'I've got this idea for a song. Can you put some words to this?' That's the way it goes. What we're trying to do now is to get more shows on the road for us to keep alive, basically, because the past 3-4 years have been very very bad for bands of the 1980's, let's say, that style of music. It's no longer the flavor of the month, or whatever. There is an audience out there, but they're being neglected. It's very hard to convince promoters to actually put some money into a band that may not be AEROSMITH or whatever or may not be very very well known by everyone. As you said, you found out about my stuff a year ago. You know what I mean? So, it's just the way it is. The economy is crap. A lot of my friends, as I was saying to you earlier, they're just saying 'What do we do? We can't get any work.' A lot of people are doing sessions or getting themselves a regular job like a real person, you know, instead of playing at being a rock'n'roll star. That's the way it is.

AJ: I absolutely understand. The other night I saw in concert WHITESNAKE & here's David Coverdale, been around as long as you, played with the same guitar player even, & he's doing a show at a 1000 person venue. It's not an arena. He's not at Madison Square Garden where he might have been 20 years ago. I know you have said it in past interviews, you're honest enough with yourself to know you won't be playing in arenas again.

GRAHAM: Oh yeah, yeah.

AJ: I said at the beginning of this show, & I wasn't being mean but just making an observation, that I feel that you're under-appreciated or what people know you for is 30 years ago. That kinda ties into what you were saying, as you still have to make a living & tour & do stuff. You know, continue to get out there. When I say that you're under-appreciated, what's your thoughts on this & where things have gone & struggling as a musician now versus when you were whoever?

GRAHAM: I think a lot of it is my fault. I didn't stay with one project long enough. You know, the stint with RAINBOW. I was with RAINBOW for one album. I should have stayed for at least another 2 or something, but I got on this ego thing ... actually, it came to a disagreement between me & the band. Nothing was being productive. I sang on that first album [Down To Earth] & second album began & nothing was happening in rehearsal. So, I thought I could do something on my own. I wish that I'd stayed with RAINBOW longer & that's why I kinda disappeared into the great unknown. I was just becoming known by a brand new audience of real cool people that I'd never met before & meeting all these great musicians that I was blown away by. I'd always met people more in the pop side of the business, so to speak. It was an opportunity I blew. I should have stayed with them. ALCATRAZZ should have lasted longer when I put that band together. The Michael Schenker thing [Attack Assault] was a one-off again. One album in the studio. I never stuck with anything & people were kinda like, I guess, wondering where I'd gone to. I wondered where I'd gone to as well. I didn't know what to do. I was never satisfied. I think the thing that kinda made me uncomfortable & dissatisfied with the whole business was quiting RAINBOW when I did. Then maybe my name would be in people's minds & they would know me better than they do now. Whereas, what's happen is, with ALCATRAZZ, it's bred 2 guitar players that everybody knows about. That's Steve Vai & Yngwie Malmsteen. Instead of it being a band that kept my career going I kinda helped those guys. I was a stepping stone. ALCATRAZZ was a stepping stone for better careers for Steve & Yngwie, you know. I should have just hung in with other people longer than I did, but I was never quite sure what to do. I was always wanting to do something ... you know, something else & I wasn't sure what it was.

AJ: You're actually kinda answering a question I had or you're hinting at maybe an answer. As I was looking over your catalog, you've performed a lot with bands & you've done very few solo albums, versus someone like your successor in RAINBOW Joe Lynn Turner whose done lots of solo albums, or versus someone like David Coverdale whose basically been in one band, even though it has rotating members. You have pursued many directions & I was kinda wondering why you hadn't chosen a path of just Graham Bonnet solo albums or just ALCATRAZZ albums. I think you kinda hinted at dissatisfaction being there & wanting to explore new territories as the reason behind that, also just making a living.

GRAHAM: You have it so much safer being in a band. Then you don't have to take the blame if nobody likes the album. It's a scary thing to step out there on your own. Like The Day I Went Mad, that was all my own deal there in 1999. I got great players to come play on that album, but it was all my own songs, except for one, that's the Paul McCartney tune "Oh! Darling." That was it. That was the only cover on there, I think ... Oh no, there's 2 covers. Sorry. There's another one, "Don't Look Down" [by guitarist Mick Ronson]. Yet, there's safety in numbers, as they say. At the moment, as I said, it would be a luxury to do a solo album & do exactly what I wanted to do. But, I wonder if people would actually want to listen. I'm not sure anymore. Wondering if I have to stay with this kind of music, which I think I have to, which is like ALCATRAZZ, the ALCATRAZZ kind of sound, if there was one, if there is one. That kind of thing. Which is how I'm writing tunes now, which is very much in the style of ALCATRAZZ, but with a little twist here & there, bringing it into 2012 eventually. 2012 will be about the time we get the album done, I think. It's gonna take awhile. I mean, as I said, we have this stuff together for about 4 or 5 years now, ready to go. But, it's got to have ... to do an album for people to go 'Show me what else you can do, you know.' It would nice to have the elements of the old, so called old ALCATRAZZ sound, but with some new influences. You know something that suddenly takes a left turn when you think it's going to go straight on. Which I think happened with ALCATRAZZ when Steve joined the band. That was, in fact, my favorite album of ALCATRAZZ [Disturbing The Peace], was when he joined. It was just a little bit different. It wasn't your regular heavy metal, as it was called then, album. ... I think I've lost the thread of the question.

AJ: No, no, I'm enjoying listening to you. I have to be honest with you, I appreciate your candor. I really appreciate your honesty. There's a lot of musicians out there that go 'Well, yeah, you know, everything is great.' But, you're opening up & just saying what you feel & I know you do this in other interviews, too. You are telling your insecurities & as a fan that really means a lot to me to be able to share in that. It's not just about the music.

GRAHAM: As I said, I'm not going to be playing arenas anymore, even though I did 4 years ago when I went on a tour of Australia with a whole bunch of people that were on a TV show called Countdown, which I happened to host 10,000 years ago, twice, when I lived in Australia for a short time. Like all my early stuff, my solo albums, were like number one albums there, for some odd reason. Don't ask me why. We did actually play arenas. It was Rick Springfield, Doug Fieger of the KNACK. Poor Doug has died. I think it was 2 years ago now. Katrina of KATRINA & THE WAVES, Samantha Fox, the Australian band the ANGELS & a bunch of other Australian bands nobody would know about. But, we were playing every night to, I don't know, 30,000 people. Something like that. It was one of those magic moments when I ... it suddenly felt like I was back where I was before. It very much felt like American Idol. It was like an audition. 'Here I am.' Every night was like a huge stage, we had the same stage, tons of trucks & shit, you know, taken almost to every city in Australia. But, it was like being on American Idol, because it was almost like a talent show.

AJ: An audition 30 years after you got the gig.

GRAHAM: It's been a while since I've played such big places, you know. It just felt weird. But, I was at home, but at the same time it felt like I was auditioning all over again, you know.

AJ: Graham, the song that converted me to your voice was "Killer" from The Day I Went Mad. It's a new song for me, yet working on a couple decades ago in your career. When you listen to your own music, whether you chose to do it or are forced to do it like during interviews like this, whether it's early stuff or more contemporary stuff, what goes through your head?

GRAHAM: Well, that particular song reminds me of how many beers I drank that day! That was when I was drinking. I have been sober now for 8 years. I quit doing all that stuff. But, I remember doing "Killer" & Kevin Valentine was the drummer on the album & engineering. He was touring with CINDERELLA at one point. He's played with Lou Gramm & in the studio with KISS, as well. He's played with a lot of people. He was engineering & he did the whole album with me. He just said, 'You okay?', because at one point I suddenly stopped & I blacked out. I actually fell on the floor.

AJ: That's a good nostalgic memory!

GRAHAM: It was a wonderful day, what can I say! I ran out of air. I was like not taking a breath, because we're doing this damn song & there's high bits & low bits & whatever else. Suddenly he says, 'Are you still there?'. I had my headphones on & asked what happened. I fainted while I was doing that song. It's a very hard one to sing, but of course, that's me & my melodies. It's my own fault for making up that melody. I mean, what can I say? But, the song is about one of my heroes, Jerry Lee Lewis. He was called the Killer, you know.

AJ: I'll tell you, Graham, when I was listening to this album I was planning on writing a review of it for a blog I do, but I didn't want to go beyond this track. I'd heard 3 great songs & I knew that once I finished listening to the album the review would go up & I'd go on to the next album, of course. I didn't want the initial experience to end. I literally postponed writing the review for a month, until I could no longer keep the album a secret & had to share it with the world, just so I could stay in that listening place. If that's not a glowing review right there! I've listened to your other solo albums since then, but I think this is an absolute highlight for you in your solo work.

GRAHAM: I haven't heard it since I recorded it, to be honest with you. I never listen to my stuff.

AJ: You should listen to it again. I highly recommend it!

GRAHAM: You mentioned it again & I realized I'd forgotten how it went, the tune, the guitar solo. I just never listen to anything again, because you do the song over & over & over, as everybody knows. By the time you've got to the 20th take you've had enough & then you have to pick it to pieces & put it all together. That's the part that drives me nuts. So, I usually leave that somebody else. But, with this album I actually sat there with Kevin & I went through every vocal just to make sure it was how I wanted it to sound, because it was kinda my baby. But, it brings back many painful memories.

AJ: Sorry.

GRAHAM: But, I like it. They're nice painful memories. Nothing bad about it. We had fun doing it. It takes a lot of energy to do some of these songs. By the time you've sung it 20 times you just want to put your head down the toilet or something. But, with this, we left it for a week or whatever & then he came back & asked if I wanted to piece the vocals together. So, giving it a little bit of time off. Otherwise, you just get a headache & you don't want to hear the song ever again. So, once the thing was done & we put it together I never listened to it again.

AJ: When you're writing what motives you? How do you keep your music fresh?

GRAHAM: Well, it's just everyday experiences. As I said before, it's basically like being a country & western writer, like Chuck Berry's lyrics. There's something about Chuck Berry's words that always fascinated me. The way they sounded lyrically & the way they just rolled off your tongue.

AJ: Yeah, I know.

GRAHAM: There's something about his words. They're just magical, you know. I know John Lennon was a big fan of Chuck Berry. He said he was his idol.

AJ: I actually got to see Chuck Berry perform about 3 years ago here in NYC.

GRAHAM: You did?

AJ: I was watching him play & do all his stuff. I walked away, & I'll confess, it was almost orgasmic. It was unbelievable.

GRAHAM: Yeah, yeah!

AJ: I literally walked away & said 2 things to myself. First, he copped every Keith Richards lick out there ... you know, that's a joke.

GRAHAM: Yeah, I got it.

AJ: Second, I now understand the history of rock'n'roll.

GRAHAM: Oh yeah?

AJ: Listening to him it was like I'd heard everything since him. You know what I mean?

GRAHAM: Yeah, I do. The first song I remember playing when I was 16 or 17 was "No Particular Place To Go". The title itself I thought was intriguing. I mean, what weird title for a rock'n'roll song. The words, no particular place to go, that is so un-rock'n'roll. That it's like what the hell is this song about? Then I heard it & we, of course, played it in my little band. The words ... they're made ... I don't know what it is about the way he writes, but they just roll off your tongue & they sound so interesting. Because, they are! Because, they tell a story. Even "Johnny B. Goode", which everybody has done & everybody knows, but the words are great. You can just read the words & its poetry. I try tried to cop his style in the ALCATRAZZ years. So, he's been my idol. I always liked Ray Davies of the KINKS, as well. You know, "Lola" & all that stuff.

AJ: Whose your idols, Graham? Who do you turn to for inspiration?

GRAHAM: As I said, Chuck Berry. I love the BEACH BOYS. I love Brian Wilson. The way Brian Wilson puts together chords sequences. I saw Brian's Smile, when he had that album out. I went to see the concert in Australia. I came out of there just with goosebumps. I just said ... that's what ... I don't mean the surfing music. I mean the later Brian Wilson.

AJ: Like Pet Sounds.

GRAHAM: Yes, Pet Sounds & all that. Oh, man. I mean, those chords are so beautiful & the words are great. I saw that show. He basically redid parts of Smiley Smile, the original album. I just couldn't believe what I'd seen. The perfect singing from all the people he worked with. They all played different instruments. It was the best thing I'd ever seen in my life. I remember [late drummer] Cozy Powell & I ... when Cozy was in the MICHAEL SCHENKER GROUP we would be rehearsing, you know when we did the Assault Attack album, & Cozy would say 'You gonna come over to my house tonight?' So, I'd go over & he'd say 'Let's put some real music on.' Of course, he puts on the BEACH BOYS. That was his favorite band ever. Him & Jeff Beck love the BEACH BOYS. I couldn't believe that we all had the same ... you know, I was kinda shy to say I liked the BEACH BOYS. It was a bit like saying I like the PARTRIDGE FAMILY or something. It was so un-rock-n-roll, you know, but then suddenly Cozy cranks up Pet Sounds as we're driving home & we're just saying 'Listen to that ...' I mean, "God Only Knows" & all those songs. & the album Surf's Up. Have you heard that album? That's a really great album.

AJ: Remember, Graham, Paul McCartney has said it was Pet Sounds that inspired the creation of Sgt Pepper.

GRAHAM: Yes.

AJ: That album basically revolutionized music & that inspired the creation of how many bands? So, the BEACH BOYS. They are un-assuming, but it is amazing. That's one of my favorite albums.

GRAHAM: I just love the later albums. Carl & The Passions was another album. Though, all these guys are dead now, Carl [Wilson], the brothers. Those guys inspired me. The harmony side of it. I love harmonies. I like to do my own backing harmony & that kind of thing. They've always inspired me, ever since their earlier albums when they did like "Barbara Ann" or whatever. You know, those kind of songs. But, I've always been a harmony freak &, of course, later on when I met up with the BEE GEES in London. When we'd all get our acoustic guitars out we all sat around singing BEACH BOYS songs & Stevie Wonder songs. There were 2 things we used to play. Barry Gibb, Maurice Gibb & Robin would sometimes be there, but usually me, Barry, Maurice & my cousin Trevor would sit around singing BEACH BOYS & Stevie Wonder. That was our thing to have fun at a party.

AJ: Graham, what have been some of the influences on you as a singer in terms of how you sing technically? Has there been any influences on that which have effected or changed the way you sing over the years?

GRAHAM: Yeah. The first people I listened to were people like Paul Anka from the 50's when I was a kid. I'd stand in front of the mirror lip-syncing to Paul Anka songs when I was 7. Then later on, because I had an older brother, he was a teenager & I was a little kid, but he brought home these records by Fats Domino & Little Richard. I love Little Richard. How does he make that sound with his voice? That rough, edgy, shouty, whatever it is he's got about him. He's one of my favorite singers. I love him. I love his phrasing. Again, he's just one of those guys that it just comes naturally to him. The way he did all his ad-libs were just like throwaways to him. It was nothing, because he was into church music, obviously. Who else do I ... ? People like the RONETTES, the CRYSTALS, FRANKIE LYMON & THE TEENAGERS, which is like the original JACKSON 5, I guess. Have you heard of them? Do you remember those guys?

AJ: I know who you're talking about.

GRAHAM: & Ronnie Spector. She always said, 'I always wanted to sing like Frankie Lymon.' So, she emulated his voice. That's where she got her style from. I always like Ronnie Spector, because we used to do, when I was playing in my little band in pubs & things when I was 16, we did a lot of RONETTES stuff. I found out later, Brian Wilson's daughter said something like 'You know what my dad plays every morning? "Be My Baby" on the piano. Every day.' So, Brian Wilson was a RONETTES fan, too. You can hear that in some of their earlier songs. There's very much a Phil Spector type thing going on there. But, then, of course, he developed his own style. He's one of those guys I would just love to sing more of his songs. You know, what I mean? I respect the guy to death. The BEACH BOYS are the American BEATLES, to me anyway. Not to everybody, I know.

AJ: I understand. I understand, totally.

GRAHAM: People tend to think of the BEACH BOYS as being the surfy thing. You know what I mean.

AJ: That's their stereotype, but when you really get into the history of music they are a necessary stepping stone as you discover the major influences in the history of music.

GRAHAM: Oh yeah. There's a lot of people, but as I said, a lot of the time I was influenced by girl bands. I don't know why. Probably because they were singing in my key. That's where all the high notes came from, I think. I'm not sure about that, but there was something about it. But, Frankie Lymon was like my hero. I thought he was great as a kid.

AJ: Do you listen to a lot of the new music out there? Do you keep your thumb on what's going on in the moment?

GRAHAM: Yes I do. I hear it, but I don't hear anything that grabs me & says 'That's something new.' I'd love to hear something new & I haven't heard anything. Everything is so damned processed at the moment. Everything is ProTools to death & auto-tuned. Blah blah blah. A lot of it sounds like elevator music to me. I hear some bands are influenced by LED ZEPPELIN or RAINBOW or DEEP PURPLE or whatever. I couldn't tell you all the bands names at the moment, but I hear that. You can tell they've been influenced by 1960's/70's bands. What's happening is a lot of distortion on the guitars & everything to make it sound a bit ... to make it interesting. A lot of not really very good singing. Whereas back then ... it sounds like I'm an old guy, doesn't it? But, back then there wasn't that trickery that there is now. So, if you have a crappy day singing you just auto-tune it. You can tell. Those kind of records I can't stand them. They just sound like commercials to me or something, for butter or something. But, it's very difficult for me to ... I want to hear something new like 100 years ago when QUEEN first came out. I was a BEATLES fan & that was it. There was no other band in the world. Then suddenly I heard QUEEN & I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I'd like to hear something like that again, that surprises me.

AJ: Maybe you have to be the one to create it?

GRAHAM: Well, shit! ... Your challenge for this week is ... !

AJ: I'm giving you some homework, Graham.

GRAHAM: Yeah, yeah, shit. If I could get some new ears to listen.

AJ: Let me ask you an easier question. Is there anyone out there who you'd like to work with but you haven't?

GRAHAM: Brian Wilson would be great, as I said. I'd love to work with him. Let me think. Jennifer Batten. Do you know her? She played guitar with Michael Jackson for years. She had to cop the Van Halen lick. She was very worried about that. She said she slowed it down & everything. I've been in touch with Jennifer for a few years now, but we've never worked together. I saw her 10 years ago. She did a little guitar clinic thing here in my area & I took my daughter down to see her. I said she had to meet this girl. She plays like Steve Vai, but it's a girl. So, we went along, got her autograph & photograph & all that. I've been speaking to Jennifer over the past year or so about doing something & she sent me stuff. But, because of the way things are ... she's having to work. She's gone back to Japan. She was over there when the tsunami hit, then she flew back here & then she went over for a benefit or something. But, now she has a manager who is a guiding her career & so she said to me 'I don't think this thing between you & I doing an album together is going to happen.' Obviously her manager has given her a new path to follow like managers do. 'You'll make more money on your own, baby. This is what you should do. Do this on your own. You'll be a star by yourself. Don't worry about it.' But, she's one person I've admired for a long time & she knows it. As I said, talked on the phone, e-mailed, over the years.

AJ: When you're not stressing out over having to make money & doing a new album, how does the non-performing Graham Bonnet do to relax or distract himself? Can you reveal the real person off the stage a bit?

GRAHAM: I'm just like everybody else. I mean, my dog died last year, but I used to take him for a walk everyday. I'm now divorced, unfortunately. I was married for 30 years. So I have my 11 year old daughter with me now. She stays with me on weekends & she'll come here after school during the week. But, during the week when she's at school I ride. I do a 2 hour bike ride every day. That is my sport. I've got a nice Trek bike & it weighs like nothing. It's my Lance Armstrong thing. I'm a rider. I've been riding for years. I used to ride in Australia. A guy made me a bike in Australia. I was in a junior cycling team there. So, that's what I do. I ride for about 2 hours every day & there's some tough hills out here. You know what California is like.

AJ: Do you write? Do you work on your music every day, & things like that?

GRAHAM: In my head on the bike.

AJ: I mean, do you sit down at a desk at some point & go 'Okay, it's 2 o'clock, time to work on some lyrics now.'

GRAHAM: Sometimes. But, I usually make up words when I'm on my bike. For instance, The Day I Went Mad album. All those words came to me while I was cycling. You're out there seeing the world & you're passing things & you see things & get inspired. Things come at your mind when you're exercising. I don't know why.

AJ: It's a physical thing with your head, I've read. When you're moving it actually settles the thoughts a little bit. It focuses you in. I've heard that many times.

GRAHAM: Yeah, yeah. Something sparks up in there. Suddenly an idea will come to me & I remember it & then I write it down when I get back. I don't actually sit down & actually write a tune in front of a tape machine or whatever ... but sometimes I do, especially if its somebody else's arrangement. Then, at night I will sit & play my guitar & think of how an arrangement should go or something. I play the guitar every day. With the other guys in the band I have to sit down with a recording device of some kind, headphones on, & think about words.

AJ: Speaking of which, we're nearly the end of our time together, Graham, & I want to make sure you talk or mention at least what you're currently working on. What projects are in the works that people can look forward?

GRAHAM: Okay. ALCATRAZZ is playing the House Of Blues in Hollywood with HURRICANE. We're also playing in San Diego. Those are 2 gigs that are coming up & we're trying to fill-up our daybook. Our dance card isn't very full at the moment. But, those are 2 gigs that are kind of exciting.

AJ: Is there an album in the future for ALCATRAZZ?

GRAHAM: There will be. But, at the moment I'm recording for some friends of mine & the album is sort of a rock opera. It's called Lyraka [i.e. Lyraka Volume 1 & also on Volume 2]. That is something I'm starting on now. There's 6 tracks I have to sing on. Then eventually get around to doing the ALCATRAZZ thing, one day. The songs are there. It's just a matter of standing in front of a microphone & doing it.

AJ: & not passing out.

GRAHAM: I maybe will, but that's the way life is with me, you know.

AJ: Graham, is there anything more you'd like to share?

GRAHAM: Is the rapture coming? I think it's going to be a rupture?

AJ: If it's coming then I guess this is your last interview.

GRAHAM: Do you have your ticket? I've got an all access backstage pass.

AJ: Graham, I have to tell you how pleased I am to have spent an hour with you. You have my absolute thanks.

GRAHAM: You're welcome, Aaron. My son's called Aaron, by the way.

AJ: I think you've done some great work over the past 40 years or more.

GRAHAM: 40 years.

AJ: I'm sorry, making you sound old again.

GRAHAM: I don't think I'm ever going to get old. I've made my mind up. Something that other people do.

"One Sexy Woman In A Lot Of Different Outfits" An Interview With DAMOND JINIYA of SAVATAGE, RETRIBUTION, & TROY ALLEN MONTGOMERY, TOM SPITTLE of REBEL PRIDE BAND

2015-12-15T19:41:00.002-08:00

Oct 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #34)

Under The Gun, the only album by Montgomery Gun Productions, fuses hard rock with outlaw country ballads via an array of all star talent, featuring the late guitarist Matt LaPorte, mostly known for Jon Oliva's Pain. It also includes Savatage & Jon Oliva's Pain founder pianist-singer Jon Oliva. While the other half of the vocals are by Damond Jiniya of the final Savatage line-up & more recently of an array of Florida cover bands, including one dedicated to Nine Inch Nails, & recently released an album of originals under the name Herman / Nebula. The album is the child of songwriter Troy Montgomery of Florida who spent a lifetime loving music & writing lyrics, but, as he says in this interview, was "too busy being a serious businessman" to ever make his dream come true of making music. Under The Gun is that dream come true that through its decade in the making had close encounters with Lynyrd Skynyrd, Iron Horse & the Outlaws, plus was a key in forming the core of Jon Oliva's Pain. It's also nothing but a gold nugget in the discographies of all involved, though greatly under-looked.

This was the first episode of my podcast where I interviewed exclusively a songwriter. I had always talked to folks who were singers-songwriters or guitarists-songwriters, but not just a songwriter who didn't appear on his own album. The one live show ended up taking on its own flow beyond my expectations with surprise guests & a history of the album I didn't know. Surprise guests calling in included guitarist Tom Spittle of the Rebel Pride Band who helped in the initial demos & Damond. We had reached out to Jon to call in, an interview with the talkative musical genius a prize moment, particularly as I'm a fan of Savatage. He didn't & I don't know if he ever heard the show or even knew about it. One can hope & he liked what he heard. Damond had been invited but expected to be gigging the night of the broadcast with his covers band Retribution. It should be noted that for nearly a decade he had refused most interviews, particularly those related to Savatage, It was only a few months earlier he'd broken that doing a print interview in a Brazilian publication. I had promised him that if he should be able to call in, outside of obvious references, I would ask no direct questions about Savatage, of which I kept my promise. But, for the fans, we would later do a pre-recorded interview about Savatage I would broadcast as this first interview went so well. This was the first interview related to Under The Gun & the only one that brought this trio of contributors together. It was a very unique experience talking to these 3 guys, brought some new people into my world who I still communicate with, & was a highlight of my interviews. This is why live radio is so much fun.

*****

AJ: Troy, welcome so much to my show. Thank you for taking time out to talk with me.

TROY: Aaron, thank you so much for having me on. I've been looking very forward to this & very excited our project Under The Gun.

AJ: Troy, you have this new album out, but you also have quite a career behind you building up to this album that is, in many ways, a part of the reason I asked you to join me. I was really excited by some of the stories you have e-mailed me about your experiences. They're very unique & there's a real excitement about what you went through in your career that eventually led you to forming Under The Gun Productions. Just briefly, because the beginning really is the best place to start, can you help me out? Who is Troy Montgomery?

TROY: Sure, Aaron. I grew up like everybody else. I loved music & very into stuff. I grew up working as an insurance adjuster, working for my father when I got out of high school, straight into the business world. I always had a big passion for music, but I was too busy being a serious businessman & just being a serious guy. Once I reached about ... well, I actually started writing lyrics 22/23 years of age. I got to where I would literally just pull over to the side of the road in my travels & I would write a whole song or a half of one, ideas & lyrics. I did that for 15 years, Aaron. My passion grew for music. I got older & older & saw that time was just slipping away. You know I just wished I could have done it over & started out playing guitar when I was 16, but I didn't. So, as I finally hit about 37/38 years old I finally had enough material, plenty of it to probably do a couple albums, but rdegardless, it got me to where I was ready to do the project Under The Gun. Like I say, I was always a business person doing what I do, like most of these guys spent their whole lives & career trying to be a musician because that's where they're at. So, I started a little late in life. However, it's never too late to follow your dream & follow your passion. That's what I did. As time went on I basically wanted to put this thing in gear & make it happen. One thing led to another & I got fortunate enough to meet ... a friend of mine knew Damond Jiniya & another guy in the studio where I began recording this, where Under The Gun first started. It's like I say, one thing led to the other. I basically went into the studio with a buddy of mine, Tommy Spittle, from the REBEL PRIDE BAND. I really had no experience about writing a song or didn't really know much about how to approach it, but I knew I had some good ideas, good lyrics & I wanted to make it work. So, that's where it all started. I brought Tom Spittle in. At that same time he introduced me to Matt LaPorte. Matt was just a young guy then in his early 20's. Phenomenal, amazing guitar player. Real nice quiet guy that was just absolutely the most amazing guitar player you'd ever seen. So, we went into the studio. That's where I met Damond. Matt came in with me & Tommy in the studio & he just couldn't stand it. We just started hammering on the first song & it just started going real smooth. We started to record his first guitar tracks & Matt just got so excited he jumped in on it & took over the project, basically, as far as the guitar parts. Things went real well. Obviously, long story short, before it was over with we ended up with Under The Gun. But, in that process, right off the git go, once we started this album I did not know Jon Oliva. I knew who he was but I did not know him personally. So, I was working with Damond & even though Damond had just done touring for 4 years with SAVATAGE [with Jon], I didn't know Jon personally. So, it just happened, the way it worked out, I knew another friend who introduced me to Jon at the same time I began working in the studio. It all worked out. Next thing you know, I met Jon & we were working on this project. Everything just grew & took off real quickly. We started talking about who were some of my inspirations, people that inspired me in the music business. I was a huge TESLA fan. I said to Matt 'I love TESLA & I love the acoustic guitar & I want to do something kinda TESLA.' So, that's how it grew. We started working on "Under The Gun" & it just caught on fire & seemed to be a great song. Before you know it, we finished the song & we just thought that it seemed like a hit. It was the first song we'd done in the studio & it was a great start. So, from there, basically, Matt wrote this guitar riff which turned into the song "Illusion/Fantasy". After we got about 2 or 3 songs in the studio that's when I met the great Jon Oliva. He saw where I was at with my project & next thing you know magic happened. We spent the next 2 years in the studio, but we accomplished it. That's where it all began, Aaron.

AJ: That's a long story short, I know. Now, you had written to me once that you had brought Jon in, but at one point he offered even to help fund the project or to take some of the money through his company. He also contributed a song because he was so enjoying your project.

TROY: Absolutely. We started working together & at first it basically Jon was going to be a musician for hire type thing. We got along so well & liked each other's personalities. I guess the honesty & sincerity of who we were as people. It just took off from there & he was no longer a musician for hire. We were songwriting partners. We were working in Audio Lab Studios at the time & Jon was recording a 2004 [JON OLIVA'S PAIN] album, I think it was 'Tage Mahal actually. So, he got to use some of his studio time with his record company & book some of our time through the studio & help donate to the project. So, like I said, it turned into a partnership.

AJ: Excellent.

TROY: It was a 2 year fill. It was very interesting all this culmination of musicians that came together to create this album. Greg Marchak whose traveled the world with Jon as Jon's personal live sound engineer. Greg was an awesome guitar player. Greg has passed away since then. He sat in on 2 songs & played a beautiful 1972 Telecaster on "When The Heart Breaks" & "Love Now". It was just beautiful music & Greg had a deep passion for what we were doing, as well. So, several people got to donate to this project & very talented people. I was very fortunate & very blessed, Aaron.

AJ: That's great. It's a real group effort. Troy, I have someone on the phone who I'd like to bring on. Hello, caller, who am I talking to?

TOM SPITTLE: This is Tom Spittle from REBEL PRIDE.

AJ: Hey! We've got on the phone the guitarist from the REBEL PRIDE BAND, which is one of the bands who work with Troy & Montgomery Gun Productions. Tommy, thank you for calling up & joining us tonight. It's a real pleasure to have one of Troy's associates with us.

TOM: Glad to be aboard.

AJ: Any immediate thoughts on your mind?

TOM: I like to hear Troy pumping us all up. It's great to hear his voice on the radio.

AJ: Excellent. Tommy, you work with Troy through your own group REBEL PRIDE. How would we describe them? A southern rock band. LYNYRD SKYNYRD-ish, am I close?

TOM: Yeah, that's correct.

AJ: Also you were involved with Under The Gun, right?

TOM: First time I recorded on Under The Gun was in my garage. I came up with the melody. Troy had the lyrics, I came up with the melody line. Brian Jefferies from REBEL PRIDE came up with a lick to go with it. We recorded it on an 8 track recorder here in my garage. That's where it got started. I still have that demo.

TROY: How'ya doing there Tommy?

TOM: Great.

TROY: Aaron, it basically started with Tommy & REBEL PRIDE. I became friends with them & was actually a big fan of theirs for years. As time grew I later became their manager for a couple years. They were really dear friends of mine & it started there. Like he said, the birth of Under The Gun started in Tommy's garage. We did a rough demo & from there Tommy introduced me to Matt LaPorte. Me & Matt ended up in the studio & Tommy, all 3 of us, & things just started to grow from there.

TOM: That's what I get for being too busy! I missed the studio thing.

TROY: Yeah, Tommy got so busy he didn't get to hang in there for a lot of the stuff we did. He's a busy man. He plays with 3 or 4 different groups at a time, rotating with different bands. Great writer. A songwriter in his own right. Tommy is an awesome guitar player. Tommy is such a talented man. He plays the flute, he plays guitar, he plays keyboards, he plays drums, he plays bass. The guy can play anything. A very well rounded individual, musician & a very long time friend that I call him a brother for what, 15 years now, Tommy?

TOM: Yup. You can know many things, but it all starts with that lyric, doesn't it?

TROY: It all starts with the idea, I guess, it sure does.

TOM: Starts with that lyric.

TROY: I just started writing a song. It really come from Brian Jefferies. He told me one time, 'Troy, I want you to write me a song about a ramblin' gamblin' honky-tonkin' truck drivin' man.' That was where it all started. I thought what could I come up with. Before you know it I started writing & when it was over I realized I had written a song about myself, pretty much. It pretty much was about me. I got done with it not realizing it. I guess I just told my story.

AJ: Guys, what was that first song you all hashed out in Tom's garage.

TROY & TOM: "Under The Gun".

AJ: Tom, obviously you were on the demo, but are you on the finished recording?

TOM: I don't think any of the parts I did make it on that final cut. I was in the studio the first day. Matt was there. He had better ideas. He ran with it & I let him.

AJ: But, hey, you're on the track as much as Troy is. It's those initial ideas. Troy, can you tell me the musician line-up for the final version of "Under The Gun"?

TROY: Basically, on that originally was Brian Jefferies. Matt did all the guitar parts, including bass. Steven Wright played the drums. Damond Jiniya did the vocals. That's pretty much it. You know what happened, Aaron, this is something we haven't even touched on ...

AJ: Go ahead.

TROY: When we started working on this project I was friends with the late great [guitarist] Hughie Thomasson from OUTLAWS, also he toured with LYNYRD SKYNYRD for 9 years. I'd known him from when I was a child growing up. Basically, once we started working, we targeted "Under The Gun" for LYNYRD SKYNYRD, so that's where you kinda hear a lot of these riffs. We built the song, after we wrote it, we basically built it around LYNYRD SKYNYRD for them to record it. We actually made it so far that Tommy was at my house, Hughie came to my house, Matt was there. We sat down & talked & basically I demoed that song to Hughie. Hughie was in Fort Myers, where [guitarist] Rickey Medlocke lives. They were working on an album [Edge of Forever]. Basically, Hughie heard the song & he played it for Rickey & they absolutely loved it, fell in love with it. Hughie sat at my house & told me how they loved the song & they were going to record it. He said that if something happens & LYNYRD SKYNYRD does not record the song he'll definitely do it as the OUTLAWS. He told us that in a couple years he planned on getting back & starting up the OUTLAWS again, which he did. So, basically, ]guitarist] Gary Rossington was the one who wanted 50% publishing rights to the song, which basically is what stopped the project. I got an entertainment attorney that kinda advised me, 'Troy, they didn't do anything to deserve half the song.' I was willing to cut them some publishing rights, of course, but they wanted 50% & we kinda bowed out on that. But, anyway, LYNYRD SKYNYRD loved the song. Johnny Van Zant personally heard it on Hughie's radio. He's like, 'Who was that?' Hughie just said, 'Some boys from Brooksville.' Tommy is on the other line, so I'm sure he'll be witness to all this. All the guys from SKYNYRD heard it. All the boys loved it, but they basically wanted half the publishing rights, which really wasn't a fair deal. To make a long story short, that's how far that song got & then, of course later on, Hughie, after they wouldn't renegotiate his contract & give him the number he wanted, he started back up with the OUTLAWS. Unfortunately, he was making his brand new album & he passed away while the album was in the process. That's how close "Under The Gun" came to being a LYNYRD SKYNYRD song & an OUTLAWS song. Figured I'd give you that stuff & Tommy is my witness here.

AJ: Tommy?

TOM: You know, it's great to hear Matt play again. I haven't listened to his stuff since he passed away & it was like he came back to life again. It's amazing. The guitar work is phenomenal.

AJ: Thanks for reminding us of this. He was a great musician, many of us know him, many of us don't, but I'm sure anyone who listens to his stuff is going to start playing air guitar. Or, maybe it's just me. Also, I love hearing Damond sing on this, because I only know him from SAVATAGE & that's only bootleg youtube recordings. Here he's doing something a little different & showing this great range. It's fun for me to hear.

TOM: You know Damond is still going around town kicking butt. Right now he's probably out singing right now here in Tampa.

TROY: A great contributing factor. I mean, everybody played a part, of course, in that song ... I have to tell you that I don't ... That song, also as you know, Aaron, got re-cut by [guitarist] Ronny Keel, he was doing an album with IRONHORSE. [Singer] Jason Aldean is with the label, I can't think of it off the top of my head, but regardless they recorded the song & actually sent me the whole album. They were ready to get signed & they got as far as they did recording "Under The Gun", but it ended up they did not get the record deal. So, to make a long story short, Ronny Keel actually did re-record that song himself when he had Matt join the band. So that song almost got picked up by SKYNARD, re-recorded by Keel, but never released. That song has got a lot of history. But, getting back to Damond Jiniya. That guy, he really made the song. Damond put his heart into it & he brought that song alive with his passion & his vocals. Just a little of enough grit in it just to make that song ... he brought it alive. Even when Ronny covered the vocals, he just didn't ... he did a great job, but nobody has come close to what Damond did to that song.

AJ: He doesn't dominate any of the songs on Under The Gun. He lets them take him somewhere vocally.

TROY: Absolutely, that's right.

AJ: That's really what you want. Actually, I think, Troy, listening to the album, it is really a group project. You gave these guys this platform & they let it envelope them.

TROY: Absolutely.

AJ: They didn't come in & say 'I'm Jon Oliva & I'm going to play this way.' No, he worked within what you gave him & is inspired by it. It really is MONTGOMERY GUN PRODUCTIONS, not the Troy Allen Montgomery album.

TROY: It was a group effort & everybody played a very serious part in it. Everybody was mutually important. Everybody did their parts. Like I said, they brought the song alive. I don't know anybody that can sing that song better than Damond. Anybody alive out there now.

TOM: You're a good team builder, Troy, that's why it all came together that way.

TROY: Thank you, Tommy.

AJ: I have someone else here on the line, guys. We'll expand the table settings here. Hello, caller, who do I have here?

CALLER (DAMOND JINIYA): This is Damond Jiniya.

AJ: Oh, my goodness!

TROY: Hey, Damond.

DAMOND: Hey, buddy, how you doing?

TOM: Hey, Damond.

DAMOND: What's going on, guys?

TROY: I was just telling about your killer vocals.

DAMOND: Wow, it was really cool. I turned the podcast on right at the end of it. It was really cool to hear Matt.

TROY: Yeah, he was perfect on that.

DAMOND: It just sounded amazing, you know.

AJ: Damond, it is a pleasure to have you on here. The former voice of SAVATAGE, the former voice of DIET OF WORMS & now playing in the Tampa area of Florida with your own cover band RETRIBUTION. Damond, thank you so much for joining us this evening. It is a pleasure to finally get to hear your voice after you & I have chit-chatted on e-mail.

DAMOND: Oh, yeah, definitely. I was glad I was able to give you guys a call tonight. We were actually booked to play. The venue turned country, so we were kinda out of a gig. Which is no problem, but we don't play predominantly country. We do a little bit more, you know ...

TOM: Gotta get the REBEL PRIDE BAND.

AJ: We've got someone here, Damond, who can take that slot. Sorry, Tommy, you missed the gig tonight. Damond, before we go any further, let's make a mention of RETRIBUTION. Would you mind giving a little plug or sharing about your current music?

DAMOND: Sure, RETRIBUTION started about 2 years ago as basically a cover band working to try to, you know, work as a musician. It's kinda tough to be a songwriter & make a lot of money. So, I went in & started doing covers. I developed a really good repertoire with my guitar player & we became a really good songwriting team. For the last year & a half we've been working on an original record that we're kinda putting the finishing touches on.

AJ: Excellent. I know you guys are booked with gigs through the end of the year, so you guys are playing a lot, too.

DAMOND: Yeah, we've been really blessed. We added Shawn Lowrey, our drummer, whose in CARNIVAL OF CRUE. He's a real good asset to the band. He's real diverse. We try to play a little bit of everything. You know, it's a broad audience, from heavy metal to country. We even do "Rockin' Robin'" & "Unchained Melody" in there somewhere.

AJ: Excellent. Well, Damond, Tommy Spittle & Troy were telling earlier about recording Under The Gun in Tommy's garage & Troy detailed the creation of this project a little bit. Meeting up with you & later with Jon Oliva & Matt LaPorte. Can you share some of your memories & thoughts on Under The Gun?

DAMOND: Oh, yeah. I was living at DIET OF WORMS studio, which was basically a house that was made into a studio by myself & our guitar player. It was basically for our band & then our guitar player went on to get outside clients & started working with Troy. I was asleep one day & I got up & walked into the studio & met Troy & Matt. They were working on a really good song. It was "Illusion/Fantasy". It was really cool. As Troy may have mentioned, it was very TESLA-ish.

AJ: Yes, he did.

DAMOND: & one of the greatest guitar solos in any song I've ever heard. I'm a big JANE'S ADDICTION fan & it kinda reminded me of something Dave Navarro would have written on some of the earlier stuff. A really interesting mix of blues, funk & soul, rock & psychedelica. So, I was really interested. I was kinda offered the gig. My guitarist had mentioned that I sing & I hit it off with Troy & he asked me to sing, you know, to demo the record. Of course, I loved it, so I took him up on it. It was a great experience. We worked really well, Troy & myself, at putting out that song pretty quickly. It just came together. Then "Under The Gun" came after & it was also a ... it didn't really take very long, so I guess it's good when it doesn't take very long to accomplish. Some people go into the studio & it takes them a year to write a good song. While Troy was able to accomplish a lot ... Troy & Matt both, were able to accomplish a lot in a very short amount of time. I mean, that was really rare ... as far as my professional dealings.

AJ: Damond, as I said, most of us know you not necessarily from DIET OF WORMS, but with your time with SAVATAGE, which is a particular type of prog metal singing. I've heard a little bit of RETRIBUTION, which is also rock. But, here you are with Troy working with what he's created, which has a bit more of a country outlaw element. It rocks, but as he was telling us earlier, it was a song written with LYNYRD SKYNYRD in mind. As a vocalist coming at this project ... for someone like me who knows you for a particular style ... do you have any thoughts on this?

DAMOND: My mom [Maureen O'Connor] was a singer & she was basically a country western singer. I grew up in Nashville. My earliest experiences were ... I was 4 years old when I got on the stage to join her & from that point on it was love. I sang in her show. I was this little kid act. I would get into talent contests. I sang with unknowns that became super stars, like Randy Travis, John Michael Montgomery. They were hosting like open jam nights or talent contests that I had entered. So, that was really my background, older country. When I met Troy it just seemed like a good fit. I'm very diverse in everything I like, but my heart is really in country music. I love it. Nothing makes me feel better than when I'm listening to Patsy Cline or Hank Williams or something like that. That really touches a unique deep spot in my soul.

AJ: Fascinating to hear you say that. Tommy, Troy, Damond, let me pose a question to each of you. You've each played a different role in the creation of this album over many years. Let me ask, starting with you, Troy, what has been the biggest challenge that you've dealt with in this project? The same question to all of you.

TROY: The biggest challenge in this project?

AJ: Or, maybe not challenge, but the growing moment, we could say. Whichever is easier for you.

TROY: The album came together really well, though everything is about time & money, you know. We've got the time but not the money, or the money not the time. So, they both became a challenge sometimes, but that was some of the biggest things I was up against. & working with guys that are such a stellar talent as Damond & Jon. You know, Jon being a very important man & a very busy guy, working on TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA projects writing their music, writing his own album, plus working with me. Jon was working on 3 albums in one year at one time & the next year he went on to work on another JON OLIVA'S PAIN album. Basically, the biggest challenge I found was trying to get studio time booked that was good for me, good for the studio & open for Jon & guys like Damond, because sometimes I had to work around their schedules, being blessed & lucky enough to work with these guys. It came together good, but Jon was probably the challenging one, being the busiest guy, probably. That was my biggest challenge. How about you, Tommy?

TOM: Same thing, it always is for Time Management Tommy. I passed it off to Matt & introduced you to Matt, simply because I was just so overwhelmed with things going on in my life. That's one big regret that I have, that I didn't have more time to help you out with it.

AJ: Damond?

DAMOND: I was lucky, because, you know, I kinda came in as a hired guy, so I didn't have to experience the labor of love of the whole songwriting process & Troy was very easy to work with. I guess logistically it was location. I had moved back to Nashville in 2003 & Troy came up to Nashville to finish tracking with me up there & then when I came back down to Florida to track he had booked time. He worked with me a lot, so there were no challenges for me because Troy was very accommodating to my schedule & everything that I had going on.

AJ: Damond, of the stuff that you sang on the album, outside of "Under The Gun", do you have a favorite song or one that as a vocalist that you really got into?

DAMOND: "When The Heart Breaks". Yeah, that was my favorite.

AJ: Why?

DAMOND: There were a couple songs that we demoed at my house & it was after not a lot of sleep, a lot of work, & I kinda worked on it at 4 o'clock in the morning with Troy. He gave me the melody & I was tired & I was raspy. It was just like blah. My voice was shot. With this melody that he had given me it just came out so emotional, without intention, you know, I wasn't trying to intentionally be emotional. His melody was so beautiful with the raspiness that it was just kinda like chocolate & peanut butter or something. It just kinda worked.

AJ: I have to tell you, Damond, it's fascinating. I'm a little shocked that this is the song you'd choose. It's probably my favorite on the album.

DAMOND: Oh, cool.

AJ: When Troy first sent me the album & I was listening on headphones. I stopped that track mid-way, pulled off the headphones, turned on the speakers, turned to my roommate & said 'We are going to listen to this new album, because I've gotten through half the song & I'm loving it & have to share.' It's funny, because you said this was the song that came in that maybe less than perfect moment, but yet is the one that really drove home.

DAMOND: Troy was very smart to put that at the beginning of the album because it really does hook you. Everybody I've played it for says that they like it. It just grabs you, whether you like country or not, it's got something to it & it takes you on a journey, you know.

AJ: It's interesting you saying that. I had the opportunity to interview vocalist Graham Bonnet of RAINBOW & I played my favorite song by him. He told me that was the song he only recorded once, because as soon as it was over he passed out as he was as drunk as a skunk singing it. Yet, it's the song that everyone says is one of his best. So, it's ironic that here you are an artist preparing your voice & keeping it good, yet it's that 4 am recording session when you're barely awake that turns into that gold nugget.

DAMOND: Oh yeah. You know emotion is better than performance sometimes.

AJ: Guys, I just want to say before I forget, thank you all for joining me tonight & sharing this experience. It means a lot to me.

TROY: Thank you so much, Aaron, for having us.

AJ: This album was a near decade long project. Troy, when you look back on this on this project, what are your overall feelings about this journey?

TROY: I'll tell you. We took a couple years recording it & about 11 years to get it out & for sale. Basically, I'm just glad finally ... I kinda dropped the ball on it. I tried shopping it. We just recorded it to be demos, basically to sell in Nashville. Well, after the industry took a dive & record companies were going out of business & Napster & all these downloads & stuff, it was just so hard to sell. So, I kinda just let it go in limbo. Finally I said, 'We've just got some great stuff here. There's a couple really good songs here. We're just gonna take this demo out & print it & sell it as an album.' So, it was never intended to be an album. But, finally, I just did it. I shot for it & there you go, we got it. Glad I did.

AJ: Taking what you just said, this is really an expensive demo, you could say.

TROY: Absolutely.

AJ: With that in mind, going back, if you had known when you did it that it would be an album, would you have done things differently? If this was intended to be an album not demos?

TROY: The only thing I would have done differently maybe ... We kinda rushed through some of them. Some of the ones that Jon did the singing. A couple of them we probably could have cut the vocals a little better. But, he still did a great job, of course, but I think we could have gone back on a couple songs & fixed them up a little better. Made them a little prettier, so to speak. They still turned out well, but like I say, even though we spent a ton of money & time it was a demo. If I was just making an album I'd probably spend a little more production on the thing. That's about it, really. That's all I can say.

AJ: Tommy, this is a project that started as a bunch of guys getting together in your garage. I don't know what your garage looks like but I'm sure its like everybody else's ...

TOM: Little.

AJ: Exactly. Now, here it is, 11 years later. Your brother, your friend, your fellow musician & artist, is now presenting something to the world. What is your response?

TOM: Hey, if I'd known he was going to take it this seriously then, I would have taken it more seriously then. But, I was in other projects & I kept telling him I was too busy & now I really regret it because it came out great. It's a great album. Damond, you sound awesome. Just great songs. It was a good project.

AJ: Damond, the majority of the tracks on the album are your vocals. It's a stellar project to have on your resume, but again it was something you did a few years ago & here we are sharing what are demo tracks under the guise of a real album. When you listen to yourself singing what goes through your head?

DAMOND: Good times, you know. I had a really good time working with Troy & Matt as well. Matt was just a beaming ball of light. I would literally do a lot of these sessions, since I lived at the studio. From the time I woke up I would come in & do sessions, all sleepy-eyed & I hadn't had my coffee yet or whatever. Within 5 minutes of hanging out with Troy & Matt I was laughing & joking & in a great mood. So, it just brings back feelings of joy & elation & happiness.

AJ: Matt was a great guitar player who passed away this past year. Jon Oliva once called him the only guitarist who could replace his belated brother Criss, the two of them founding SAVATAGE & Jon basically leaving when Criss died. Troy, let's give a moment to Matt. Can you tell me the story you wrote to me. You are actually responsible for Matt getting into Jon's band JON OLIVA'S PAIN, where he would become well known.

TROY: Matt never knew Jon when I worked with Matt. He knew who he was, but he was not working with Jon. Basically, through our network of guys, I'm working with Jon & he obviously got to hear Matt's work with me & he was so impressed. That later led to Jon bringing Matt aboard. Basically, for those that know the story, he really loved his brother Criss. After all these years, the only one who ever filled the shoes of Criss Oliva was Matt LaPorte. When Matt passed away it was hard on everybody. It was hard on Jon, because Jon had felt like he had finally grasped a replacement or as close as he could get to his brother. It was a tragic loss.

AJ: Criss's death through Jon into a tizzy & a downward spiral into different addictions as he found his band moving out of his hands into those of producer of Paul O'Neill. Though, the irony is that from this tragedy eventually SAVATAGE would morph into TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, which would become more successful. Damond, did you record all your vocals after the music was laid down?

DAMOND: Nope. The first few tracks were being re-recorded at DIET OF WORMS studios, so I was there during a lot of the early process.

TROY: The beginning.

DAMOND: I know a lot of it was re-recorded later, but I got to be around for a lot of the early performances. Like, one of the songs on the album, "Grey Rider", I was there in the studio while Matt was playing that. It astounded me to see his fingers & the solo. I don't think I had ever, even with all the professional people I had worked with, seen anybody play that well & have so much emotion in their fingers. The solo at the end of that song is another incredible solo. There's so many solos on the album. I just remember coming in there & seeing him play that & I was just completely blown away. Incredible.

AJ: Damond, you've mentioned this a few times & I know what this is, but just for those who don't, you talk about the DIET OF WORMS studio. That's named after a musical outing of yours. Can you clarify what DIET OF WORMS is?

DAMOND: DIET OF WORMS was actually based on Martin Luther & it goes back to the 17th century Germany. Basically he protested the Catholic Church. There's nothing remotely religious about the Diet Of Worms, but it was an interesting notion of rebellion & rebelling something that was the status quo. That's kinda where DIET OF WORMS spawned from.

AJ: It a studio & the band you were in.

DAMOND: You always remember it. 'Diet of worms, that's gross.' It was an electronic band, kinda conceptual. I was writing a lot at the time. Trying to work on the great American novel, you know. When we were doing the recording process, especially for our second album The Aquarius, we brought in a lot of the science-fiction I was writing at the time. It's kinda weird, now with everything kinda happening in the world, I sorta ... you know they always say science-fiction becomes science fact ... last year we toyed with the notion of revamping The Aquarius, Aquarius II for 2012 as that was one of the mentions in the story that was written in like 1997. A lot of similarities to things that were going on. It was kinda geeky stuff at the time, but now it's all sort of coming true.

AJ: The irony of it. Here you mention you have this electronica outing, you did heavy metal with SAVATAGE, I also know you auditioned for the TV show Rockstar: INXS. You were a finalist for that even though you decided it wasn't your cup of tea. You've done now some outlaw country rock & here you are with RETRIBUTION doing 80's rock & heavy metal. There's probably others, so excuse me if I haven't mentioned other things. & I know you're also a writer & a poet. How do you see the music of Damond Jiniya the vocalist? How do you see his career? His output?

DAMOND: I don't look at it as a career, but as a life's body of work. To kinda make it a career is to sort of make it final, I guess, & put something on it that almost cages it. In the end you're only remembered for what you create & I hope to create a lot of different things for a lot of different people, because you never know whose going to listen to it.

AJ: That's an excellent response. That's a perfect response. I'm not implying that you have topped your bottle any. I hope you will share with me your new music & we can continue this story someday.

DAMOND: Absolutely.

AJ: Let me just ask in closing. Is there anything we haven't hit on that you'd like to share?

TOM: Back in the time that Troy started that CD I missed out on it & I regret it, but I was making my own CD at the time, so check out REBEL PRIDE BAND. A shameless personal plug.

AJ: I'll add that if one youtubes REBEL PRIDE there's a few videos of you up there live. A great southern country rock band that draws from the classic rock repertoire, really, playing a classic rock style.

TOM: Yup, we kept it alive.

AJ: There's not enough people doing that. Damond, anything else that I've not asked about or you'd like to share?

DAMOND: RETRIBUTION is playing in Tampa, Florida! Come & check us out. We play all the weird music that people may nor or may want to hear. We also have a duo called NAKED BEACH, that's just kinda what it sounds like - stripped down. We don't get naked. We strip the music down & just play it acoustic.

AJ: Troy, anything you'd like to share?

TROY: Once again, I just want to thank Damond & Tommy both & all the guys involved in my project. Pick up a copy. Not only did we have Matt LaPorte, but gotta remember Greg Marchak is a killer musician, who also played guitar, who passed away. So, there are 2 musicians on that album who were just awesome, stellar & they have both passed away. So there is some amazing work on that album that can't be repeated again. I encourage everybody to get a copy of that. I thank Damond & Tommy for doing such a great job helping with with my album.

TOM: Our pleasure.

DAMOND: No problem. It was a pleasure.

AJ: How does Troy Montgomery of 2011 compare to Troy Montgomery rocking out in Tommy's garage? How have you changed?

TROY: I'll put it this way - a lot of experience. I've lived through so much growth in the 11 years. When I started out I couldn't play a guitar. Now I can play a guitar. I'm not a great guitar player by no means, but I can pick up a guitar & play about 20 songs. & I've been in the management business. Managed REBEL PRIDE. Managed to get them on CMT [Country Music Television] & did a show called The Biggest Redneck Wedding Ever. It's as redneck as it sounds. We always talked how we'd love to get REBEL PRIDE on CMT & we did. Whether it was 2 minutes or 3 minutes we made national TV & that was our goal our whole time. So, we hit it. The short time we got didn't matter, as we hit our goal. I did a lot of learning & a lot of growing, Aaron. I learned a lot from my fellow musicians. I'd love to do another album. This time it would be pretty much outlaw southern rock, which is pretty much what's on my mind. I've got all my lyrics wrote. Just trying to keep my mouth shut as much as possible & my ears & eyes open. I'm sure we all grew together, but these guys have a career in this stuff & I didn't even get involved in recording until I hit late 30's. I'm glad I finally picked up on it.

AJ: Thanks, man. I'm going to let you all head out now, but just want to say a big thank you for joining me tonight. Troy, if I had the time I'd just play the album over & over on the air from front to back.

DAMOND: He's a great writer.

AJ: It's just really great & we've really barely been able to touch upon it in our time together. There's so much more we could talk about. Just to have you with me, Troy, just for this little bit I thank you so much. If there's anymore I can do for you don't hesitate to ask. Tommy, thank you for calling in.

TOM: Thank you, Aaron.

AJ: I really appreciate having your point of view here of this guy who was just jamming, you know, with his buddy. I rarely get that point of view in an interview. I've listened to REBEL PRIDE on youtube & I look forward to hearing more.

TOM: I want to make one more plug, speaking of youtube videos. Make sure you check out the video that goes with "Illusion/Fantasy" from Under The Gun. That's a good rock video right there.

AJ: That's a video that features 2 things. Damond on vocals & lots of sexy women.

DAMOND: It's one sexy woman.

AJ: It's just one?

DAMOND: It's one sexy woman in a lot of different outfits. To create the illusion & fantasy of a lot of different women.

"Inspiration Is A Bit Of A Whore" An Interview With SHAYFER JAMES

2015-11-09T15:56:00.004-08:00

Oct 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #32)

NJ vocalist, pianist & songwriter Shayfer James might be described as a songwriter in the tradition of Billy Joel, but with the musical charisma, unpredictability & vagabond gin drinking groove of Tom Waits. Described as being in the noir-pop tradition, Shayfer has built up a fan following & fleshed out what that genre tag means via 4 albums, countless concerts & even at-home live internet broadcasts. His newest album, Haunted Things, was released but a month ago.

When I first started blogging music reviews my rule of them was I wanted to share music that was unique. Something with flavor. Shayfer's CD arrived early in my work & was exactly what I was looking for. When I later started a podcast I knew he was probably from day one he was always on my list as a future guest, which finally happened in the show's second season. We spent an hour live on the air talking & sharing in what ended up having an intimate feel. The show was broadcast in the shadow of his second album The Owl & The Elephant just as he was about to release Counterfeit Arcade. As part of my introduction I mentioned that he reminded me of a street musician with a monkey in tow.

*****

AJ: Shayfer, thank you very much for joining me this evening.

SHAYFER: Thank you. I like that monkey bit. I would not be opposed to having a monkey.

AJ: I know in your shows you've done things like folks hanging down crawling down a curtain. So I don't think a monkey would be too far off.

SHAYFER: That may be true. We've done some wild stuff. You know, I'm open to making it & growing it as an experience, not so much as I don't want folks coming to shows & folks saying here's another singer/songwriter or here's another band. I appreciate your introduction as a storyteller, because often the way I'm looking at the world, if I can translate that correctly through my music & people appreciate it, then that's a profound experience for me. Because, to me, a lot of the time, it's chaos. It's just happening. I'm writing & it's just coming out sort of spontaneously. But, I want to translate that, you know, that fire, & if it's enhanced by things like aerialists or fire-breathers & shit like that, than that's what we'll do. Just to get people tuned in to what I'm trying to say & what we're trying to produce on stage as a band as well.

AJ: Let's take care of the basics first. What is the experience of Shayfer James & company?

SHAYFER: That's a tough question to ask me, for sure.

AJ: Alright, let's get the hard questions out of the way.

SHAYFER: The experience that we have ... they're not on the line with me to introduce. My group is Dusty Jones on drums. Jeremy Gillespie on bass & Dante Edmont on keyboards. These guys are amazing musicians, but have a fire for the storytelling & the message. They get it, but we get each other. So what you're experiencing on stage is sort of this unbridled embrace of what I'm creating in this dark little room, where I'm actually sitting right now, where I'm writing this music & arranging it. Putting it out there for everyone to hear - well, maybe not everyone, but eventually everyone - but, the experience I hope people are having is you should be disturbed, you should be interested & you should be hopefully captivated. I feel arrogant even saying that, but I think that that is what we do. We work at getting better at that by being sincere. Sort of throwing everything else out & letting ourselves be the artists that we are.

AJ: Could we say walking a tightrope at times?

SHAYFER: You betcha. We sure could. I think that's true & reflected in our daily lives as well. I certainly do ... today is a good example. I'm sitting here writing & there were these fucking dogs & they just kept going crazy. You know it's unbelievable. You talk about a tightrope. I felt like Summer of Sam, like I was about to go purchase a sniper rifle. I mean, I love dogs. I think they're cute little creatures, but these particular dogs. So, tightrope, yeah, maybe we're all a little bit loose cannons, a little unhinged. But, it's in the best way, I think.

AJ: In my introduction, besides the monkey, I also used the word "noir-pop." I know this word does get used in your PR & people describe you as that. How do you describe your music? You've covered the experience, what's the music?

SHAYFER: It's my gut. The music is the real interpretation of what I'm seeing. It's through my lens, you know. So, you're experiencing exactly how my brain translates the world around me. So, the music itself, I mean, it's dark. It is dark. I've been a dark-minded fellow my whole life. So, it may seem at times, & the new record too may even seem, a little bit disturbing to folks. The new record is Counterfeit Arcade which is coming out in a couple months. It may be a little bit disturbed, but it's honest. I feel like so often people or artists are afraid to tread, you know, deeper into the water. But, I think this is shit we all think. When we're all lying in bed staring at the ceiling, it may be heavy, it may be grim, but I don't think its alien. I'm just saying it out loud.

AJ: Why do you think folks are afraid to say it like you're doing it?

SHAYFER: I don't know. I don't want to generalize, as a clever politician, I don't want to generalize or alienate anyone, but truly I think people are afraid to tap into that. People want this sort of mystification of life. There's this happy place where we exist. For me it's not true. Happiness exists in acknowledging the fact that that's a myth. In fact the only way you can exist comfortably is by journeying or wading into those depths. I think people are uncomfortable with how hateful they can be or how scornful. Possibly, depending on what you believe, evil they can be. I think everyone's equally capable of it. So, I'm not necessarily afraid of that & I'll put it out there when some folks might be afraid to.

AJ: I find as a music listener & being a bit of a musician I'm a big fan of Lou Reed. People ask me why do I like him. I say that's his lyrics are great because they're dark. I've always felt that darker emotions make for realistic & powerful songs, sometimes the most honest songs, versus singing about how I love you & we're all going to get along. I've always felt people like the darker stuff because there's an honesty there &, like you said, there's a gut thing there you don't get in the nice stuff.

SHAYFER: Right, right. How fascinated have you been by, or maybe by yourself, in a conversation when you tell it like it is, how it really is? Not the way somebody wants to hear it or maybe not even like how you want to hear it, but how it actually is. You get this rush out of somebody telling you. Brass tacks. It's not pretty. That's okay & maybe that's the prettiest thing about it. So, yeah, I think that's true. I think its totally true.

AJ: Like you said, you take all this & you regurgitate it out there. You do it in a myriad of ways. You do it sometimes just you & a piano. There's also times with a full band. You've got 2 albums out there & a new one about to hit the shelf that we'll talk about soon. You also have a visual component. You're not just playing music, but there's also a very visual side to this musical persona you've created. You've done stuff on ustream. Obviously, nobody can see you right now, so 2 questions for you. One, can you tell people where they can go to find out about your music & maybe to see you. Then, can you tell me a little bit about the visual side of your world?

SHAYFER: You can go to the official site, which is shayferjames.com with links to all the other social media sites. Myspace I really don't keep up with, to be honest with you. I don't know if I should or not.

AJ: Nobody does anymore.

SHAYFER: I actually logged in the other day & put upcoming dates & told people to go to facebook. I think that says a lot about myspace. The facebook is just shayferjamesmusic. As far as the visual, when I set out I wanted to, with the site & everything about it, I never wanted anything to feel contrived. I feel like everything that I do or that the team that I have around me does, which is an amazing group of folks, the conversations been had about not so much reflecting me but reflecting the collection. So, The Owl & The Elephant's art I felt was really representative of what I was saying & I feel like the new one's the same way. I feel that the website is a general representation of how the music sounds. I can't say it's too far off from where I am. You know, you're not likely to see me without my boots or hat strolling around the town I live in. I think it's real. It's just enhanced. & I think that's necessary.

AJ: Instead of everyone seeing this big picture of your life you are basically giving them a zoom on a particular aspect. It's a little bit exaggerated.

SHAYFER: Sure, sure. Absolutely. But, the music is exaggerated too. I mean, I get up in the morning & I have my coffee & I have my breakfast. But, I don't write about that. It's not like I ...

AJ: Not yet.

SHAYFER: That will be my 11th terrible record that I write. But, do I wake up & have a glass of whiskey? No. Do I wake up thinking about it? Maybe. There are various elements to our lives & certainly I think even when we meet new people we represent ourselves in a magnified. We show ourselves in a way that we want to be perceived by that particular person.

AJ: Since we've been speaking about your music, is there a song from your last album that's very special to you?

SHAYFER: Let me think about that for a second, because certainly when I was writing the songs ... because they take on their own life after you write them especially after you record them, you find a place for them so you can re-translate & regroup & assign new meaning so it stays fresh & interesting for you as you perform it over & over again. But, I think the song "When Heaven Closes" still resonates really deeply with me, for sure.

AJ: Great. I'll tell you, there's not a bad track on the album. You have an incredibly strong output, so I was curious about what you would choose if anything. When you write, obviously you're churning out your worldview within confines of the idea you have for the song or album or whatever, do you ever write something where maybe you get a little bit too personal or too dark, to the point of thinking you can't share it?

SHAYFER: No, never.

AJ: Never?

SHAYFER: No. If something is too dark or too personal that means I'm on the right track. Its the other stuff that I'll tend to throw away or walk away from. I don't like things that aren't ... a lot of times when I'm writing the initial ideas will come at a moment that's completely random. I'll be crossing the street & a line for a song will happen. In a particular situation recently I stopped in the middle of a crosswalk to question myself. 'Why that? I don't even know what that means.' You dig a little deeper & you get personal & you realize, or I realize, that my mind is telling me something maybe a little bit deeper or darker than I expected. At those moments I get really excited about writing, because I know that I can really dig in & see what's going on. It's often inspired by a moment of complete spontaneity. It comes from out of nowhere, like struck by lightning or something.

AJ: What's the hardest part of composing for you?

SHAYFER: The hardest part ...

AJ: Or challenging.

SHAYFER: I guess the most challenging part at times is being patient with myself. I think inspiration can be, & I said this to some friends, inspiration is a bit of a whore. She goes off & she does whatever she does & then she comes back. You get a little bit upset about it, then you realize she learned a whole lot while she was gone & you can embrace that. So, I think the most frustrating thing is being patient enough with myself. Not to pressure myself to write. I try not to. I try to just wait. I want to write. I want to constantly be creating, but there are some days when you get up & if you're trying too hard you're making a terrible mistake.

AJ: Speaking of patience, you actually go into something I've heard you talk about in other interviews & I want to bring it up just briefly, because you're the only person I've heard had this situation & this is a situation that called for patience. That is the story of learning to play piano as therapy for your hands. Would you mind sharing again how you got started on the piano? You know the story I'm referring to.

SHAYFER: From what I remember. When I was very young I lived on a rather large property & there was a tractor used to haul & move things. I was on my father's lap. He put me down. The tractor was running. There was a hole in front of the tractor. I stuck my hand in front of the tractor & the fanbelts stripped away a good part of tissue, you know, scarred flesh, twisted, cracked some knuckles. So, just under 2 years old I was sitting with my hand stitched on to my abdomen to graft skin on for the damage that had been done. Doctors said to my mother, 'He'll write, but it will have to be with his left hand. He'll not be able to this. He'll not be able to do that." My mother refused to believe that, of course, so she thought the best way to have therapy would be to sit with me at the piano. She would sit with me on her lap & she would exercise these 2 damaged fingers on my right hand & get them working & get them to a place. I never went with the doctors' ...

AJ: Recommendations.

SHAYFER: Yeah, with all that happened. They thought I would be in special classes or what have you & never have that problem. Eventually, years later, when lightning struck the first time & I decided to write a song, it wasn't the guitar, it wasn't the bass, it was the keyboard that attracted me. I think that's for a really really heavy & personal reason that I didn't even really fully understand even at the time.

AJ: It was just ingrained, the piano, the fingers. It moved beyond the therapy. I will add something else to the health benefits of playing an instrument. I have a friend here in NYC, 96 year year old piano player Irving Fields [in 2015 he turned 100 & still playing weekly]. He still performs 6 nights a week here in Manhattan. Probably one of the oldest folks I know performing this steady. He has horrible disfiguring arthritis in both hands. He says the piano playing keeps the pain away, because he doesn't take medicine. He's not in pain.

SHAYFER: Now that's some crazy shit right there.

AJ: He says he won't stop partly because his fingers will cramp up again. So, a piano, unlike other instruments, has mysterious healing properties that people may or may not realize.

SHAYFER: I can play other instruments & I've written on other instruments, but there's something about the piano. It's just such a beast. Just crazy. Maybe it's appreciated by some people, maybe under-appreciated by a lot of people, but it really is a profound instrument.

AJ: & we all have an instrument that we connect with. There's certain instruments that better bring out music in you than another instrument.

SHAYFER: Sure, sure.

AJ: & then there's other instruments ... the ukulele isn't happening for me. I'm not getting any inspiration out of this kazoo.

SHAYER: It's true. I can't play the cello, but there's no instrument I've heard so far that makes me feel like the cello does when I listen to it. You know, when I listen to the piano I hear piano. When I hear other people play piano the performances are beautiful. I enjoy listening themselves through any instrument. But, good God, the cello. There's just something in that instrument that just resonates with me that is just absolutely incredible. But, I can't play it. I wish I knew every celloist in the world so I could call someone everyday & say 'Hey, you want to come by & play the cello?' & never feel like I was imposing on a friend.

AJ: I understand that. The cello has this very nice tone. I have something with trombones. I hate trumpets & saxophones. It's like they are too tinny, so I don't listen to horn music much. I can't hear what they're playing. But, if you pull out a trombone it's like I'm swooning. I can't play any horn at all. Then, when you're getting into that mood it brings out things in you, like albums, like The Owl & The Elephant. When I first heard this album, a year or so ago when you sent it to me, & I could feel that there was an artist or a composer behind this writing a book, writing a story. Now, I didn't necessarily get the story on the first listen & that's normal, but I could feel that there was this flow of people & places & things. Later on I read an interview with you that said, either you described it or the interviewer described it as a book with 2 parts & an epilogue. Will you tell a little bit about your album? Or, I should say your novel?

SHAYFER: I wrote the album rather quickly & it was during a time of ... recently my father had died, there was a lot of heavy heavy, you know, unpleasant stuff happening. So, that was the inspiration for it. It was sort of a tunnel. You know, they say, I could have gone about my days & just dealt with it the old fashioned way, whatever that means, but I decided to just go deep into what I was feeling & what I was experiencing. So, a lot of the album is about that, particularly my father's death & what that relationship meant. & then as I analyze the relationship with him I analyzed the other relationships in my life & what they meant. It was really self-exploratory. The album begins in a way ... even as I was writing it I knew what the order of songs would be. It's sort of bizarre in that respect, as I knew how it would go. When you say a novel you're not too far off, because as I was creating it I had ... I didn't go out at it saying I'm going to write this plot, but as I was writing it was like they all made perfect sense together in this particular order.

AJ: They're strung together.

SHAYFER: Yeah, yeah. You often hear artists say how the album order would go & that it was a pain in the ass. The album order was actually the easiest thing for me. It went without saying. So, yeah, I think there are 2 parts. I think they are pretty distinct. You finish "Tombstone Road", which is track 5 & then you get a song called "Your Father's Son" & from there it sort of slips back downward into the depths. The epilogue is, of course, "For Now Goodbye." The interesting thing about "For Now Goodbye" & "For When Heaven Closes" is they were after-thoughts. Those 2 songs were actually added during the recording process. I had written them both really after most of the album had been recorded. After I wrote them I said 'These have to be on the record. They have to be on the album. This makes perfect sense.' I actually ditched a couple of songs in favor of the new songs that made sense. & the great thing about the couple songs that I ditched is I don't even remember what they sounded like. So, I know this was a good addition.

AJ: No bootleg Shayfer James recordings.

SHAYFER: Not for those anyway. Plenty exist, but not those.

AJ: At the same time, your songs do string together, but yet they can be taken out of context. So, you're not struggling with a live concert where you have to do the songs in this order to tell a story. They can be mixed & matched & they still breathe & are understood.

SHAYFER: Right. I think that part of songwriting is when you're struck with an idea you take it & you mold it in a way that's not dishonest, but makes sense so that it can exist. Because what's the point in doing something so cryptic & so removed from yourself? Because if its so cryptic & removed from yourself, so bizarre that no one will understand it, then where's your message going? It's going as far as your bedroom. So, there's a way to write a song, I think, again I don't necessarily think about it, but I don't believe you should just kinda purge & think 'oh yeah, this is good enough.' Sometimes things are for you. They are totally personal & that's okay, you know.

AJ: You feel it, what you're trying to say. Outside of here you don't think about this stuff. I want to talk about the new album. But, before I do I want to say there's so many great songs you've done & they're all a little different. There's just piano. You've done stuff with the band. Some are up, some are down. That's a compliment, as you've crafted something where it's hard to pick favorites as they all show different sides to your personality. If you have a single from the album it's certainly "Life Is Beautiful." I know you have a video already for this on youtube & it's the lead-in song to the album. Shayfer, I like your arrangements. I like the quirkiness, for lack of a better word, & unpredictability of your playing. It feels different, even if it's compositionally not. I find that one of the most attractive things in your playing style.

SHAYFER: Thank you.

AJ: You are unpredictable & quirky both in your piano playing & singing.

SHAYFER: Thank you.

AJ: But, you've mentioned that The Owl & The Elephant was in the shadow of your father's death. If I'm right you've had some other deaths & some things in your circle that have fed into the new album, Counterfeit Arcade. Let's talk about this new release.

SHAYFER: The album will be available next month & then soon after the formal release event will be at NYC's Bowery Electric. When you talk about the new album as more personal than the last ... it was written over the course of a year, rather than a few. The last album was written quickly, but there were some songs that were, you know, that I had time to sit with & you know ...

AJ: Flesh out?

SHAYFER: Yeah, to flesh out & to think about & say 'Where do I go with this? Is it right? Yeah, it was right.' Sometimes what I'll do is I'll take a song completely in the wrong direction & then go back & put it on the record the way it was when I first wrote it. You know that's sort of part of the process. So, while the last album wasn't long term, it wasn't as fast as the new album, which was really truly written over a year. I think because of that it's more of a journal. It's more of a personal exploration. I feel like the storytelling is still there, but it's definitely closer to me. In fact, the guys in the band will tell you when we left the recording process I sort of had this weird decompression where I felt as though I had accomplished nothing. Maybe it's some sort of post-postpartum bullshit. I don't know what it was, but I really was sort of at odds with what I had just done. Then a few weeks later I listened to it & said 'I did it. This is exactly what I wanted.' That's how personal it actually was. The passing of my grandfather was just massive to me. He was a part of my life. I can't put into words, so I guess that's why I wrote the song. It's called "L.V.S. (Your Lady Waits)", which are his initials. I can't think of anything more solemn than his dying, but he was a beautiful life & want to celebrate. But, certainly he is missed every moment. He's my mentor in many ways. He taught me to be the man I am, so its definitely complicated & equally beautiful & dark in its own way.

AJ: What does the album name mean or imply?

SHAYFER: There's a song called "Weight Of The World", which is the first track on the new album, & "counterfeit arcade" is one of the lines. The line is: "Beneath the crumbling arches of our counterfeit arcade." To me it means many things. It means a personal illusion. We have this idea of ourselves, what's right & what's wrong & all stuff often goes to shit in the face of various circumstances. & we live within these false walls, false columns, under false lofty beautiful ceilings of stained glass. But, what it is really? You know, we made it pretty, but how much weight can it bear? But, I think it also extends, because some of the album is reflective of the nature of the world, of our race, of our species, & we are very much built just that a counterfeit arcade, I think. We're past the point of no return in a lot of ways. So, I think it has a few meanings. That's why that line from the record. I don't really like naming albums after songs. I don't think a song defines an album. I think a concept does & what was the best line from the record that sort of encompassed everything & I felt like that was it.

AJ: I like what you just said. ... This album may not be the story that The Owl & The Elephant was, it's more of a journal. Obviously on a personal level you have gone through some difficult stuff. You've hinted at how Shayfer James has changed as a person & how this is a more personal album, but how has Shayfer James changed as a musician with the new album?

SHAYFER: Great question. For me, it's more generally upbeat than the last one. When I was doing the arranging & the writing I found myself moving my body a bit more when I was writing the grooves. It may not be upbeat as compared to say punk or any number of genres, but for me there's sort of a danceable aspect to it. That was something I flirted with on "Tombstone Road" & "Your Father's Son" on the last record. & I just sort of pushed that a little bit, not to say I didn't push the ballads either. I think I pushed those further as well. There's a new song called "Peace", which is actually just simple drone, prepared piano, cello & vocal. I wrote it as sort of ... I've had pretty extreme nightmares most of my life & I felt like I needed to create some sort of oral representation of those. So that's what I set out to do with that song. That song is called, ironically, "Peace." I think I've pushed it. & working with the guys in the band in the studio, whereas The Owl & The Elephant was really based around music that I had recorded, then bringing in musicians & having them play with the stuff I had done already. It was a backward process & I'm very proud of it, but it was, in terms of the recording process, it was very backward. & what's amazing with Counterfeit Arcade is I went in with a live group who knew these songs & we'd rehearsed these songs, so the rhythm section was allowed to be a rhythm section, you know. Dusty Jones [drums] & Jeremy Gillespie [bass] were allowed to breathe with the parts rather than The Owl & The Elephant which had to be very regimented & very strict in the way I was presenting it. The arrangements were true, but the way we had to translate it to tape was very strict. This breathes, it moves, it's not cut to grid, it's not edited within an inch of its life. It's just real & I'm very very excited about that. I think all the guys are too, because I think it represents their personalities as players.

AJ: It's interesting, as you've said this is an album written in light of tragedy, but it's the most upbeat & free-flowing of the music you've created so far.

SHAYFER: Definitely.

AJ: 2 extremes in the same sentence.

SHAYFER: It's the truth & I think that's pretty much how it goes generally anyway.

AJ: Shayfer, we've coming to the end of our time together. I've enjoyed & am very pleased to be able to talk to you tonight. One of these days when you perform in Manhattan I will come & introduce myself. I want to ask if there's anything we've not touched on that you want to share still?

SHAYFER: I am forever grateful for my band & everyone whose involved & supports me. I've been lucky enough to attract a group of people who are not just on board to play music, but who actually believe that what I'm doing is something special. I think that is, you know, I couldn't be more grateful & more appreciative of that. That's really the most important thing I have to say. I could be all fire & brimstone. I could be all self-promotion. But, I won't be. I think I'll leave it at that. I'll just keep making music & hope that folks like you continue to appreciate & spread it around.

AJ: That's my job. This is my music. My music is to share your music. So, for the last hour together we've been in a band together & you just didn't know it.

SHAYFER: I haven't been drinking nearly enough if that's the case.

AJ: The night is still young. There is one more question I want to ask you. On one hand maybe it's a very simple question, on the other hand it could be very difficult. Outside the new album, what is the future of the music of Shayfer James? Where does he want to go next?

SHAYFER: I'm already halfway through writing the next record.

AJ: Alright.

SHAYFER: I finished the 5th song today. So, as far as where I want to go, I'm really already there. Creatively speaking. I think in terms of touring there's a lot to be done, there's a lot of ground to be covered. I'm lucky to have brothers-in-arms who will go there with me. I think a lot of it lies now, the album will come out & we will just wear down our boots boots as thin as we have to to get it out there. The creatively speaking is I don't really stop & I can't stop writing or creating, so I've never necessarily had a drought. I'm sure it will come at some point. Like I said, she's a whore & she leaves me once in awhile, but she comes back & she's ready to participate. I've never really had down time. I wake up in the morning & I'm writing. Normally when I'm falling asleep I'm writing as well. It's what puts me to sleep. But, I think there's a lot of work to be done & a lot of ground to cover otherwise to get this music out there.

AJ: So, Shayfer James, the man whose writing puts him asleep. I think we'll leave that one off the promo.

SHAYFER: Now you made it sound terrible. I'm boring myself.

AJ: But, my audience loves it.

"Musical Equivalent To Being Naked" An Interview With A.L.X. of LOVE CRUSHED VELVET

2015-05-10T18:51:00.003-07:00

Mid-2011 (phone)

NY vocalist/guitarist & songwriter A.L.X. has built a career under his own name & that of his band Love Crushed Velvet, fusing modern & retro hard rock. Love Crushed Velvet's line-up on the album is fleshed out by drummer Thommy Price (Billy Idol, Scandal, Blue Oyster Cult), guitarist Jimi Bones (Skin & Bones, Blondie) & bassist Enzo Penizzotto, all of whom share alumni status from Joan Jett & The Blackhearts. From the album the song "Letter" would be remixed by DJ Asha & 2 a.m. & became a viral hit on electronic music blogs, while another track "Goodbye Goldblatt" was added to the Rock Band 3 video game. In 2013 A.L.X. released a second Love Crushed Velvet album, the Delusions EP, with a different line-up.

This interview was done following the release of Love Crushed Velvet's self-titled debut. A.L.X. took an hour of his day to talk with me over the phone, later broadcast over my Roman Midnight Music podcast.

Special thanks to my friend Sandy Serge of Serge Entertainment Group, LLC, for making this interview possible.

*****

AJ: Playing a gig is stressful. I'm sure you can agree with that.

A.L.X.: There are stressful parts to it.

AJ: The gig itself is enjoyable. But, it's preparing for the gig & getting the gig & getting to the venue & if you get any money out of it at all. That's the stressful part of it for me. Speaking of which, I know you are in between touring & other things. You've been on the road for what seems like somewhat steadily.

A.L.X.: Yeah, it's been awhile. A lot of it comes in stages. Between the live dates we're doing, the album release, the college radio campaign that we just finished 2 weeks ago ... we're really trying to manage everything at once & stagger things. So, it hasn't been a continuous tour where we've been on the road in one lump stretch. It's kinda been broken up. We've also been presenting the music in 2 different formats. We've got the full 5 piece LOVE CRUSHED VELVET line-up. Most of the shows we've been doing as a full band have really been around the northeast, primarily because we're based out of NY. What I've been doing on my own ... at this point I'm really the primary songwriter in the band & a lot of the songs end up starting on acoustic guitar & even if you listen to them on the record they don't sound anything like an acoustic band. At their infancy that's how they all essentially start out. In a weird way they actually do translate very well to a singer/songwriter format, so that's what I do a fair amount of, in addition to the northeast stuff we do as a full band. I'm basically running around the world trying to introduce people with a kinda stripped down version of LOVE CRUSHED VELVET's music. Matter of fact, later on tonight I've got to drive to Nashville where I'll be in transit to some shows in Atlanta this coming weekend. So a lot of the tours have really been mixed up between those 2 different formats, between the acoustic/unplugged & the full band stuff. So, it gives people very very different flavors of the presentation of our music.

AJ: I know, whether it was solo A.L.X. or its LOVE CRUSHED VELVET, last summer you hit Europe with Croatia, Germany, Poland & Norway. Do you find a difference when you're going to Europe in how your music is received, let's say versus here in your home of NY or in the South or just in the States in general?

A.L.X.: You know the reception that the music gets in Europe is great. There tends to be real excitement over there when a band comes or when an act comes from the States. There's a certain openness & a certain curiosity & acceptance that you get over there just by nature of being a bit more of a novelty. Here, if we go play Nashville & say "here's this band coming from NY", they probably get 2 or 3 NY bands a month.

AJ: They're like "oh, another one?"

A.L.X.: Yeah, it's not that much of a novelty. So, in Europe there's a real appreciation for that & the other thing is there's really not much of our kind of music being made in Europe. I mean the rock scene there. You've got a very vibrant metal scene. Then you get this indie scene & a big pop scene, but in terms of the kind of stuff that we do that's kinda modern rock, but also has a bit of a retro flavor to it, there's really nothing like that out there. So, there's this audience that we really didn't know existed for most of these shows. I do keep a backing band in Italy that's available for some larger club shows & some special events, like a TV appearance. That type of thing. But, otherwise, it's really me & the acoustic guitar. You know there the reception is great. Sometimes there will be 200 people in a small club coming out to see me play these songs & then I go on & do 2 or 3 encores. You get that reception sometimes here in the States, but over there there's a real embrace of it. It's a pleasure to be playing over there. There's a novelty also to be in all these great European cities with different food, different languages, cultures. That part of the experience also makes it cool.

AJ: I lived in Budapest Hungary for a year & traveled about the Eastern Bloc, so I kinda know what you're talking about. My family is originally from Germany. But, actually, you're German born.

A.L.X.: Yeah, I was born there. My mother is German, technically East German. I guess in reality I'm a defector. Never really thought of it quite like that.

AJ: You also spent some time in school in Austria, too. You've been in Europe & played in Europe before as a younger man & not as LOVED CRUSHED VELVET, so on one hand it's not a new situation.

A.L.X.: No. In some respects, because I was over there as an exchange student when I was first in college & that was when I was really just starting to play. In some sense that really got me into playing music. That was really the first taste of thinking I could really do this on a higher level due to the crowd I'd fallen in with pretty much right when I got to Vienna. I'd fallen in with a crowd that was just very very well connected. I started playing with Falco's guitar player, who back in the late 80's, early 90's was a really really big star over there. Then did some work with Peter Kruder, who eventually, pretty much right after I left Europe, started to move out of the rock scene & get very into the electronica world & ended up being one of the founding members of KRUDER & DORFMEISTER. For those electronica fans out there they were really major major figures early the 90's & early 2000's in the scene. Those were the people I was working with while I was over there. It didn't last very long, but it picked up a lot of momentum quickly. Eventually I just made a decision to come back to the States because at that point in my life I just didn't want to stay in Europe. But, that was really kinda the first inkling I got of saying I can do this as more than just this passing dabbling teenage phase.

AJ: Sticking your foot in the water. You can actually jump in.

A.L.X.: Yeah, yeah. You know, when you start playing guitar when you're a kid, we all start off with this fantasy of being the biggest rock star in the world when we're 16 or something like that. At this point the fantasies have come & gone & gone again & again & again. I kinda figure at this point that's not going to happen. But, the realization that you can do this on a higher level & be competitive, at least of the quality of music you're putting out, that was kinda the first realization I got from that & that was really what I took out of that experience of being in Europe at that point in my life.

AJ: You just mentioned electronica & earlier you hinted on the fact that Germany does have a big metal scene ... when you bring your music over there, whether it's solo or its with a band, do you ever find any difficulties in taking your music & reaching out to a very different audience? Is there a bridge there you have to cross to connect with the people over there, other than just being an American musician? Is there a challenge there with the music itself?

A.L.X.: For example, when it's being presented in an unplugged format at the end of the day it's really about the songs themselves. As you know, as a musician yourself & somebody whose in this world, at the end the day when you're standing on the stage just yourself & a guitar that's the musical equivalent to being naked. So, the songs are either there or they're not there. We've all seen a million singer/songwriters where the material is just not there. When I first started doing it I was in that format. You're a little bit nervous. Not so much from the performing perspective, but just how the songs are going to be embraced. Ultimately, it's an indictment of your songwriting. How good are these songs really? I still can't be the judge of that. Once you put material into the world in some sense you no longer own it. It's up to other people to, you know, accept it & absorb it as they will, but I guess what I've gotten out of that is that the songs hold up rather nicely in that format. When they're being played that way people that listen to metal, people that listen to pop, people that just listen to singer/songwriter stuff, people that listen to indie music, if they're people who appreciate songwriting & that style of songwriting, irrespective of how it's presented on the record, I find in the unplugged format it almost opens up a wider audience. Just because of the nakedness of the format it leaves room for everybody to interpret it as they will. The metal guys say 'I can really see this stuff being played with big guitars under it & a driving drum beat.' Other people that like the singer/songwriter kinda things say 'Hey, I really like the lyrics.' The pop people say 'Hey, this has pop sensibility. I can imagine this being produced as a pop song.' So, in that sense there's a value in keeping it that sparse & just allowing other people to interpret it as they will. The danger on the other side is that people are going to come out of a very different LOVE CRUSHED VELVET experience to what they hear the next day on the internet. There's that aspect of managing expectations on the other side of it. In terms of introducing people to the music the stripped down acoustic has actually been pretty effective, surprisingly so, happily so.

AJ: Because there is a big difference between you playing with a guitar & the LOVE CRUSHED VELVET album.

A.L.X.: I try to keep the core rhythms in tact, at least, strumming single notes & that type of stuff. I try to reproduce that. I try to still be as dirty as possible, which is the main thing.

AJ: Alright, now here's the question I'm sure you always get asked. How do you describe LOVE CRUSHED VELVET?

A.L.X.: In terms of the musical style?

AJ: You've been talking now about how people receive the music, but how about from your point of view? What is it?

A.L.X.: What it is is it's really very much ... we view ourselves, as all of us are from different generations to some degree or not different generations but different decades or half decades. Thommy Price, whose playing drums, is from the early or late 80's. So, we all bring in different influences from different eras. At the same time we don't view ourselves as a retro band. There's certainly early 80's to late 80's influences that we have. You know, when I was a very young kid. The early U2 records & stuff like that that was the stuff I was hearing when I was 8 years old. I was too young to be in the scene at the time, but it still planted very formative musical seeds in me. We tend to describe ourselves as a kinda hybrid of classic rock, early post-punk & modern rock, because we don't want to sound so retro that we sound stuck in an era. All of us really try to stay real current in terms of what we're listening to these days & our musical sensibilities. It's hard when you have these bands or artists that just can't name any new act that's been out in the past 15 years. I find that a shame, because there's a lot of good music that's always coming out. Even as we're working on our new record it's important, because we're starting pre-production next week on the next one. It's really important for us to really keep our feet in the current scene. You know, to not make something that's not pinned to a particular era where somebody automatically says something like 1986 or 1994 or 1978. We don't mind some confusion with people. Like one reviewer, we just got a review that came out this week, someone said "The song "Goodbye Goldblatt" I swear I've heard this before. It kind of reminds me of something I heard. I swear I heard this in the mid-80's." The reviewer, of course, immediately dated himself. We want to be a modern edgy band, but we're also not afraid of wearing our influences on our sleeve where it comes out naturally in the music.

AJ: Well, there's something I've read in books that says that all the music we liked up until 30 or 35 is our favorite. After that age, when we start getting married & have kids & have jobs, we stop paying attention to new music. Talk to someone who is 50 & they're probably going to tell you the music they love is what they listened to when they were in their 20's & 30's. That's the way it is largely. I find with a lot of folks there's a resistance to new bands. It's not a venomous resistance, it's more like the new bands aren't like the old music they like & know so well & in turn not as good. So, in a way, in LOVE CRUSHED VELVET there's this thing, it may not be deliberate, you're connecting with music of the past, you know that song they thought they heard 20 years ago, but yet giving it a modern slant. So, you are roping them in. The retro sound ropes them in because it sounds familiar, yet it doesn't sound familiar. I've listened to the album many many times & it doesn't really sound familiar, but it does have a feeling that is retro.

A.L.X.: It's been an interesting response, because the fan base that we've picked up it's almost like this generational split, because you have people that are in their 30's & it reminds them ... we get a lot of Billy Idol comparisons because Thommy was the drummer with Billy's "White Wedding"/Rebel Yell days. We haven't gone back & listened to the music. So, the people who grew up in that era it reminds them of that. Yet, you've got people who are 20 where in many cases have never heard of a lot of the bands in that era & for them it's fresh because it sounds totally different than the conventional rock that's being made now. So, it's this kinda interesting generational split that we're seeing. It's cool. You know, for us it's nice to see that there is a demographic out there that does find this to be a new sound, even though there are certainly elements of past genres & generations in there.

AJ: Thanks for reminding me that the music I grew up with nobody remembers.

A.L.X: Yeah, totally. But, I think a lot of that also, like you said before, when people hit their 30's they get stuck. Remember when we were all 20 all we were doing was, for those of us who were either musicians or music fans ...

AJ: We just listened to music.

A.L.X.: Our life was really all about music. Listening to the newest release of this act or that act. It was so all encompassing. Then, I think as people get busier, as they get busier with their jobs or when they get busier with their families, they just don't have the time to put into that. Sometimes they just become lazy though.

AJ: Well, you can't exactly bring home 12 new albums to your wife & say "Hey, look at what I just bought with my paycheck this week."

A.L.X.: Totally. Absolutely. I have so many friends that are in their 30's now that still love music, they still love live music, but now they're living in the suburbs so they're more disconnected from the scene. I'm always hearing how they'd love to check out some of the new bands, but they're so disconnected from it. I think that is an open audience still. But, for them the means of accessing what's new out there it's very ...

AJ: I see also that the major record labels do all their advertising for the young generation. It's like if you're 18 you care about music, but if you're 50 & might be into the new Tom Petty or HEART album you probably don't care about music. But, as you just said, just because you get older doesn't mean you lose the interest. But, the music industry doesn't really show us that there's a whole constituency of people out there who still love music. The country is getting older, but we're not marketing to them. We're not keeping them in the loop. The irony is they're the ones buying music CD's, while the younger generation is downloading bringing in less money.

A.L.X.: Totally. We all share the same opinion that the record industry is pretty out of touch these days. Our perspective is we don't have a record deal. We don't want a record deal. The last thing we really want is the labels in their current form, because they don't offer a lot.

AJ: Plus, things are changing so fast, too, that labels don't mean what they used to mean. Speaking of what things used to mean, you do get that Billy Idol comparison quite a lot. Every time I see a review of LOVE CRUSHED VELVET Billy Idol comes up. Does that ever bother you? Do you ever go 'Enough with the Billy Idol' or 'You're not paying attention to the music'? I should say, it's not a bad comparison in the least, but you have been connected with him quite a lot.

A.L.X.: Personally, I think it's a flattering comparison. I can't say he's been relevant or doing much interesting for quite awhile, but certainly in the 80's he was making some great music. A lot of people tend to look at later stuff, the post "Cradle Of Love" period when he really became more of a pop star than this creation that had kinda crawled its way out of the punk scene creating this really interesting hybrid of music. But, the stuff Billy was doing at the time was great. Nothing sounded like Billy Idol. Nothing to this day really sounds like Billy Idol. That music was sexy & it rocked out, be it headbanging, really really tied a lot of genres in it. For me, it's a flattering comparison. I mean, people do need to have something ... whenever you hear a new band you want to describe their sound, so people are naturally doing that.

AJ: You've got quite an array of folks who have either worked with you on the album or are on stage with you. Can you tell me about the band, who they are & who they've worked with? I guess, we could say, drop some names? You've already mentioned Thommy.

A.L.X.: For the people that don't know Thommy Price he's still to this day really one of the best rock drummers on the planet. If you look at his career back in the 80's, at one point he was telling me he had 4 or 5 records that he'd played on that were in the top 10 at the same time. He was pretty much the go-to drummer in the post-punk/new wave era in the early to mid-80's. He's a genuine legend. We've kinda known each other by 6 degrees of separation where we knew 4 or 5 of the same people. A couple of whom were also fellow musicians & just trying to hook us up, but it just never happened. The timing on that just never worked out. So, when we finally did connect he responded positively to the music I was sending him & was open to playing with me. I was thrilled. It's not that often in your life that somebody of that stature will want to play with you, so that for me was a personal thrill. I love Thommy to death as a person & as a phenomenal musician. But, his resume, he played with MINK DEVILLE, he was with SCANDAL. Mostly, for the past 10 to 15 years, or something like that, he's been Joan Jett's drummer, but he still does a lot of work.

AJ: Not just has he worked with Joan Jett & Billy Idol, but he's also worked with Billy Joel & BLUE OYSTER CULT. Those are 4 very different outings, so you've got a drummer here whose not just a rock drummer, but a guy whose been a little bit all over the place. I'm sure in the studio when you're working together this has been an asset.

A.L.X.: Absolutely. It's interesting, because I remember the first time I was over at Thommy's apartment. The first thing I noticed on his coffee table was this giant book about the WHO & it turns out maybe his biggest influence was Keith Moon. & when we're in the studio just in rehearsal, just jamming loosely, that tells you a lot about where somebody's musical core is. The thing is with some of the rock drummers, there are times when I've had to have guys fill in for Thommy for gigs when Thommy was on tour with Joan or something like that, with some of the traditional rock drummers you'll end up jamming on AC/DC or something like that.

AJ: True.

A.L.X.: Thommy doesn't gravitate towards hard rock. He'll gravitate towards 70's rock or even go back to like the 50's & the 60's. Then some of his drumming style, it's interesting, he hits hard, but he's not one of these guys who slams. He's got amazing delivery & just fantastic feel. A lot of time when we'll just jam in the studio it's not ... you'd be surprised at the directions it takes. The stuff that comes out has a very finesse feel to it. So, it's interesting. His range always continues to surprise me. A lot of people traditionally think of him as this straight ahead guy whose got unbelievable timing & good musical instincts, but is primarily a straight ahead rock drummer. But, he's not. He's got so much more range than that. That's really been one of the pleasant surprises about making a record with him. There's a couple cuts that we didn't release on the album, but have done some pre-releases, like the song "Hipster" which I ended up releasing as an A.L.X. solo song that's got a totally different vibe. Thommy's playing on there. You tell him what direction & he'll take it. He's by no means stuck in a single genre. As far as some of the other guys. Jimi Bones was in a band called SKIN & BONES back in the 80's. His reputation is as a hard rock/hair metal guitarist. SKIN & BONES was a quintessential hair metal band. But, he also played with BLONDIE when they reunited. He did 1 or 2 tours with them. He's done a lot of studio work. He was with the BLACKHEARTS, I think, Joan Jett & the BLACKHEARTS for a year or 2 years, as well. Enzo Penizzotto is the bass player. Enzo is not playing with us live anymore, but he was with us for a bit & did a bunch of studio work when we were making the record as well. He also spent a number of years with the BLACKHEARTS. So, we had a great bunch of guys working on the album.

AJ: Excellent. Now, was that coincidence they were all in the BLACKHEARTS? Were they all in the BLACKHEARTS at the same & that's how they know each other, or you just happen to gravitate towards Joan Jett alumni?

A.L.X.: A lot of it was really ... the way that Jimi & I connected was through ... I finished my A.L.X. solo record called No Eyes For The Future that was produced by Sammy Merendino, who drums for Cyndi Lauper, interestingly enough. When I was making that record I didn't make it the way that we made the Love Crushed Velvet record with a full band. Basically, Sammy & I went went in essentially on our own, with a session guitarist, & we just really built the songs up in layers. When that album was done & I went out to promote it I didn't use the same musicians live that I ended up using in the studio. & so Sammy & I were talking back & forth about who might be a good guitar player to use who could interpret the material well. I was having the same conversation with Thommy & both of them suggested to me Jimi Bones. Thommy obviously knew of him through his days playing with him in the BLACKHEARTS. Sammy had known him through session work & numerous live gigs that they'd done together. So, that was how. You figure, if 2 separate people are giving you the same answer there's got to be something there. So, that's how Jimi ended up in the band. & with Enzo we had ... when we went in to do the Love Crushed Velvet basic tracking sessions, we'd been playing with a couple different bass players. All great players, but none of them I really felt had that straight ahead feel that we really needed. Thommy recommended giving Enzo a shot & he ended up sounding great & that's based on his BLACKHEARTS experience. I don't know Joan personally. I've met her. We're friendly. But, we're not pals or what not.

AJ: I know what you're saying. I guess we can just say she has good taste in musicians.

A.L.X.: Great taste in musicians, for sure. I really like her music, but I didn't grow up as a BLACKHEARTS fan, per se.

AJ: There's another person you've worked with who has a very interesting background. Not so much hard rock, but a little bit more, how could we say, 80's electronica or New Wave, & that's your producer Dave Bascombe.

A.L.X.: Dave wasn't a producer. He was a mixer on the record.

AJ: I'm sorry.

A.L.X.: For the producers we ended up using, I think, 3? It took 4 different producers on the album, actually. The inspiration on the production side, well, for me one of the formative records when I was young was U2's Achtung Baby.

AJ: Great album.

A.L.X.: What I loved is how they ... one of the things I think that made that record the way it was was that you had 3 great producers working on it simultaneously. Daniel Lanois, Steve Lillywhite & Brian Eno on it. You can really feel the hybridization of those influences on that record. One of the things we really tried to create with the LOVE CRUSHED VELVET sound was to work with a couple different guys on the same song. That's why if you look at the credits there's a lot of co-producers. There's either a single producer & additional production by producer X or a lot of the songs are co-productions. We're going to take the same approach with the next one. If you can get everybody to get along ... once you remove the ego out of the equation & you make it clear that it's just about the music it's a phenomenal way to make a record. But, who we were looking for in a mixer is who can tie all these disparate elements together. Who gets some of the retro roots but still has modern sensibilities. If you look at a lot of the great mixers from the 80's, 90's & even early 2000's, they really, particularly with mixers, they often tend to be stuck in a genre. Sometimes more so than musicians. You know you're going to go to this particular one for a very specific sound. One of the things that we really loved about Dave Bascombe is that he's not ... you look at what he did in the 80's, the TEARS FOR FEARS record Songs From The Big Chair that's what really put him on the charts, literally speaking, as a big time mixer. But, if you look at the range of the stuff he's worked on, outside of maybe hard rock, he's done all kinds of stuff. He's worked with the VERVE, PLACEBO. He did some DEPECHE MODE records. Stylistically they're all over the map. Then the new stuff he's making also. He continues to make very very modern sounds mixes for the genre that he's in. So, Dave kinda got where we were from. He got the direction that we were trying to take & also understood that we still view ourselves as a modern band. That's how we ended up working with him.

AJ: Interesting you would talk about a mixer. Because people don't tend to talk about that person, outside of musicians. That's just not someone who comes up in conversation. They talk about the producer. They talk about the session musicians. But, the mixer, that's like the engineer. You never think about that person.

A.L.X.: The mixer always tends to be thought of as the backdoor man of sorts.

AJ: Exactly.

A.L.X.: But, the mixer is so important. The mixer ultimately defines what your record is going to sound like. It's as much & as important as the performances & as the production. The mixer is ultimately going to be the one that melds this into a final product. It's really, when you're making record, & I've made this mistake in the past, saying 'a mix is a mix' & that reflects itself in the final product. A great mixer can make or break a record. You can have a decent record & a great mix will just give it a life of its own & if you have a very good record & you get a great mixer then you're on to something.

AJ: You may not hear the mixer when it's good, but when it's bad you immediately hear the problem.

A.L.X.: Oh, yes, totally.

AJ: But, normally it's one of those things where you don't even want to notice it, because it's such a good mix you don't notice it. The thing is, with producers these are famous people. We can talk about producers like Rick Rubin or Todd Rundgren or whoever, but a mixer ... name a mixer for me. I don't think most people can do that.

A.L.X.: But, if you look at a lot of the great records being made & run through the liner notes & the credits you get that there's certain names that just consistently run through. I was listening to the FLORENCE & THE MACHINE album again the other day. Great great stuff.

AJ: I really like her stuff. & that has a good sound to it. It's really vibrant.

A.L.X.: You look at her mix & it's a Cenzo Townshend mix. Then you look at some of the other great records that are out there & Townsend mixed it [including albums by Tom Jones, Bryan Ferry, U2, FRANZ FERDINAND]. There's a handful of these guys that are very of the moment. & the pop world kinda has its own mixers, but certainly in the rock/indie/pop world to get a particular sound these are the go-to guys & Dave Bascombe is one of those guys.

AJ: Like I said, these are people who in the music industry tend to fall through the cracks. They don't get noticed. They don't get the acclaim, but they are just as important as anyone on stage, you know, when it comes down to it. That's the way of the music business. You're not a big fan of the music business. I don't know if anyone is. But, I know you have some other stuff you do, like a green technology company to sort of offset the pressures you go through in creating your music.

A.L.X.: I've never really ... there's certain people out there, I feel, that are born to do just one thing. A lot of artists say that, 'I can't imagine not being an artist.' But, at the same time you see a lot of business people or firemen or policemen or accountants that say 'This is just what I was born to do.' I've never felt that. As strongly as I feel that I'm an artist & always will be an artist in my core, I've never been one that says 'This is the only thing I can do.' I find having other lives outside of music actually makes the music richer, because it doesn't become this kind of incestuous inward spiral. A lot of artists really have a hard time separating themselves from their art, keeping some sense of perspective about it. At the end of a the day I'm always a curious person, so that's where I've gotten into other businesses outside of music & other activities. My head is always still ... I've always got a new song running through my head or a new idea. I'm always mumbling something into my tape recorder or whatever. At the end of the day, for me, it is nice to have other worlds I can step into outside of being a musician, because when I come back to the music it makes it all the fresher again, it makes it exciting. Almost like kind of having the same girlfriend for a long time, but every time you see her she has a different hair color. It kinda feels like its a new person all the time. For me music has been like that.

AJ: What is then the next world for A.L.X. & LOVE CRUSHED VELVET to expore? What's on the horizon? You briefly mentioned you had a new album you're working on.

A.L.X.: The first step is really getting ... because this album just came out. We just finished a college radio campaign, so we're still doing a lot of support work for that. Some interviews, trying to set up some live shows. We're probably going to start launching to commercial radio the first part of next year. So, a lot of the calendar is supporting this current release. At the same time, because we really took basically 2 years to make this record, kinda did it at our luxury, all the songs on this record are at least 2 years old. I've written probably 25 new songs since then. After awhile, you know, you just get restless to start working on new material. We're really excited about some of these new songs also. So, we're going to start doing some pre-production work next week to start ferreting out which ones we think are going to be the right fit for the album. Start to work out arrangements & grooves & tempos & things like that. It'll take awhile to make this, but we're already thinking ahead of what the next process of the evolution is going to be.

AJ: Where would you like to see your music go? What's your big plan?

A.L.X.: From a creative perspective?

AJ: Yeah, or whatever happens to be on your mind. Creative. Commercially. Which ever one is easier to answer, I guess.

A.L.X.: From a commercial perspective it's really about ... you know none of us are interested in being the biggest band in the world. We're all realistic at this point. We're not 17 anymore, so we all recognize that that's probably not going to happen. For us, right now, it's more important to get this music out, as broadly as we can get it out, so that it can find its base. There's people out there ... because the ones that we're finding just really respond to this stuff. Those people who respond to LOVE CRUSHED VELVET & love the music that we make, we want to make sure they have an opportunity to access it, either to see us live or just to find out about who we are. Now it's like we're starting to see people coming to shows & knowing the lyrics to a lot of the songs. There were these 2 girls that just showed up, we played NY 2 weeks ago, & they knew the lyrics to every song. I don't know the lyrics to every song.

AJ: Wow.

A.L.X.: As a new band, that kind of stuff is exciting. We've had a couple really strong placements on the college charts. Schools have gotten us into their top 10. At one of the schools we were number 1 for, I think, 3 or 4 weeks, which was great. So, for us, there is an audience out there that responds to it. For the ones that don't like LOVE CRUSHED VELVET that's great. Thanks. Sorry you don't like it, but that's okay. What we're trying to do now is get as many people out there, access as many people out there, who we think will respond to this music. That's going to be our core pace. So, commercially that's our goal. To make sure the people that want this kind of music get it. From a creative perspective now. For the new crop of songs there's a very different feel to it, for the most part, then the stuff on this last record. So, how that's going to translate to how the band interprets it, production choices we make, I'm not sure. That's one of the fun things about the record making process is I'm constantly surprised about the evolution it's going to take. But, they're good songs. You ask 100 songwriters "W+hat's the best song you ever wrote?" & they'll always tell you "The one that I just wrote yesterday." Every artist is always excited about the stuff that they've most recently done, because it's fresh. I don't want to sit here & say I think this is our best material yet, because I think that's something that we need a bit more perspective to be able to say that & ultimately it's really up to other people to make that decision. But, I do feel very strongly that the material is very very solid.

AJ: If nothing else LOVE CRUSHED VELVET is moving forward musically.

A.L.X.: No doubt about that. The new album will have a different sound than this one There will be elements of this current one. I think absolutely you'll see an evolution for sure.

AJ: So, no more Billy Idol comparisons?

A.L.X.: I don't know. Who knows a year from now. Who knows, we may have Billy singing a song on there.

AJ: I appreciate you spending some time with me. Is there anything we haven't touched on that you'd like to share?

A.L.X.: We'd love everybody to give our music a listen. If you like it become a part of our world. If you don't like it, we hope we catch you on the next one.

AJ: How can people become a part of your world? How can people find A.L.X. & LOVE CRUSHED VELVET online?

A.L.X.: If you google LOVE CRUSHED VELVET any number of sites come up. We've got our own website, facebook, youtube & all the major music sites. If you want to buy the record we encourage people to buy it from CDBaby.

"I Never Write A Song For The Sake Of Writing A Song" An Interview With MARTY PARIS of PARIS KEELING, PERMANENT REVERSE, SKULLS PROJECT

2015-04-05T10:41:00.001-07:00

June 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #46)

Guitarist, producer, songwriter Marty Paris might not be a household name, but to the musicians he's worked with his is a respected name. His work has found him in bands, such as Paris Keeling with singer Kelly Keeling, & Permanent Reverse with members of Trans-Siberian Orchestra & Baton Rouge. While on the other hand he's known for helping other musicians. This work has included the NYC-NJ based Skulls Project, along with the budding careers of younger musicians like guitarist Chris Michael Taylor of the Carmine & Vinny Appice Drum Wars & vocalist Park Sipes of the EP Tune In to Mind Radio: A Tribute To Multi-Talented Vocalist Kelly Keeling, Since this interview both Paris Keeling & Permanent Reverse had become closed chapters & Marty has been focusing more on Christian music, such as through Barbarian Way with Sipes, which is hinted about at the end of the interview.

One day a friend asked if I knew the band Paris Keeling whose album End Of Ride Revisited that included guest guitarist Al Pitrelli. I said no & as a Pitrelli collector hunted up the album. This album would also be my first introduction to Kelly Keeling, namesake along with Marty Paris, who sang with Pitrelli in Trans-Siberian Orchestra but who I had yet to hear. I ended up listening to the album & then putting it aside. I later came across an interview with Marty & thought he was interesting. I went back to the CD, re-listened & realized the listeners of my 'Roman Midnight Music Podcast' would enjoy the flavor of this band. Researching his music I also discovered his other band Permanent Reverse. Their album Darkness & Light was another great find. It thus seemed only right to have Marty on my podcast. The result was an in-depth history of his musical endeavors & the people he'd played with & more than I asked for.

*****

MARTY: Aaron, glad to be here. Glad when you reached out & looking forward to sharing my music with you. Thanks for having me.

AJ: I want to start out chatting about your most recent project & that is PERMANENT REVERSE. You have this described on your website as: "Take a guy from the TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, another from PARIS KEELING, another from the band BATON ROUGE, the mad axeman from MARAUDER, through in a bad-ass bass player from N.C. & what do you get?" Marty, what do you get? What is PERMANENT REVERSE?

MARTY: I'll tell you, it was a very interesting project & it was an awesome thing to put together. It was a very unique experience as a musician & a producer because we really got together as 5 guys. We left the egos at the door. Everybody contributed. Everybody wrote for the album. We all sing on it. We all play on it. It was a fun project & I think it was very different from anything that is out there today. I think when we wanted to do this project we wanted to do just that. I think we did it. So, I was very excited about it & very happy to be part of it.

AJ: We have you on guitar & vocals & I know you play a little synthesizers. I said Maxx Mann is also there behind the mic. Who else is joining you in this outing?

MARTY: Corky McClellan from the band BATON ROUGE, which for those that don't know that was Kelly Keeling's first band. They got signed to Atlantic Records. They were actually, for historical sake, the last metal band signed to Atlantic Records. It was right about the time NIRVANA was making their way into the music scene & it was kinda the end of the era there. An incredible band. Corky is an amazing drummer. I was a BATON ROUGE fan prior to meeting Kelly. When I first met Corky [Kelly & I] were recording the End Of Ride album & Corky came in & played drums on the song "End Of Ride". So, I knew Corky. He actually lived in N.C. & I got to meet him. He's just a sweet guy, incredibly talented. So, we had that in place. I met Maxx down in Houston. I was at the TSO show. After the show I was hanging out with [pianist] Jane Mangini & [guitarist] Al Pitrelli & Maxx & Kelly. Maxx walked up to me & I said, "Loved your vocals. Very unique. You can sing R&B. You can sing just about anything." & we kinda made the introduction. About a year later I reached out & said "I want to put together something new, something fresh." & he was all for it. The other guitar player, the mad man Cos. His name is Greg Cerenzi & just a phenomenal shredder. Really great lead guitarist. In a lot of my earlier projects I wasn't really open about handing free reigns to another guitar player because that was kinda my territory. But, Greg is just an amazing humble guy, really great player. Definitely took a lot of pressure off the album, because everything he did he did in aces. The album really came together because of his style. He showed me a lot of things. He's a younger guy. A great addition. Then Mike Arrington. We call him White Chocolate. He has got to be the funkiest white bass player I have ever heard. I mean, he could play with EARTH, WIND & FIRE. He can play with a country band. He can flat tear it up. That introduction came through Corky. Corky & Mike had worked together, actually Mike lives up in the neck of woods where Corky lives now. When Corky came back from L.A. after BATON ROUGE he settled back into his home turf which is N.C.. So, it was kinda a neat chemistry. & we all got together & we wrote the album & recorded it & it just came out phenomenally as well. & very very happy with the guys in the band & very happy with the finished product. It was really neat & a great opportunity & I'll always remember it fondly.

AJ: What was the inspiration behind doing something? Obviously, you had these connections, but what was the click that made you say you wanted to do something now?

MARTY: I think for the most part, Maxx had never done his own album before. Maxx is a quadruple threat. His original gig was as a ballet dancer in NY. He came from the Bronx. A true blood New Yorker. He's a singer. He's an actor. He's been on Broadway. & he'd never done an album. When I met the guy I just fell in love with him. I said to him, "We'll right the material that fits with what you do." He was a big part of the writing process. He brought this whole R&B thing. If you listen to the track "Harder", it's got almost like a LINKIN PARK kinda rap feel to it. It was very exciting, because I'd never worked with somebody with his type of diversity before. It was cool. So, when I started to put the band together Corky & Mike were just a natural choice. Because of geography they could come into the studio, just hang out & we could work. Greg is in the Baltimore area. It's a funny story about Greg, too. He actually found us through Michael Schenker's son. He's a Michael Schenker fan & I think they were friends on facebook or something & he just reached out. "Hey, what's your dad's best album? I'm looking for something to dig into, something I might not have heard of." He was telling them about Michael & then he said, "You need to check out this band PARIS KEELING. He checked it out & he loved the album. He actually just reached out via e-mail one day & said, "Love the album & just wanted to let you know that." I e-mailed him back & said, "That's awesome. Send me your album. I'd love to hear it." He sent me one of his solo projects & I was just blown away. I was thinking this guy was like George Lynch & Eddie Van Halen wrapped into one. He was such a phenomenal player. When I started thinking about adding another guitar player he was my first choice. I reached out & he was on board. I would say within 30 days we were all together. We played a show out in Boone, Iowa. It was a benefit for the troops. It was America's Heroes. We came together, we rehearsed. We did like 3 days rehearsals & we did this show out there. We started kinda really tracking the album in our heads on the way back. The next thing you know we're in the studio recording it. It was a fun story & it was something we'll always remember. It was a very special time for us.

AJ: You just said that Maxx had never done an album before. Was this his first time in the studio & if so, did it have any challenges for him?

MARTY: Not at all. He had done some projects. He had won the American Idol the Latin television show they had done. They'd been recording. He'd recorded some stuff with TSO with [producer] Paul O'Neill. He certainly wasn't a rookie in the studio, but he did have something that was his own, which was a band that was centered around him as the frontman. I was honored to do it. I was like, man, I'll do it if nothing else to be the guy that produced Maxx's first record. He's a sweetheart of a guy, too. It was an awesome thing. He's a pro.

AJ: As we were talking before, he has a very distinguishable voice. You totally recognize him. & he just totally cuts across the music, too. He just pulls himself out.

MARTY: Absolutely, & I'll you, he's got a soft side, too. I flew him down to N.C. a year before we even started the project. I just wanted to get to know him a little better. He came down & hung out. We grilled out & just kinda did what musicians do, kinda hang out & kick around the studio. I wrote the song "This Child." The melody just came into my head. We put a mic up & all of a sudden out of this guy came this very soft angelic voice. I was like, "Wow, he can do anything." "This Child" was kinda the cornerstone for the project. That was the first song that we did. It's my mother's favorite song of all time.

AJ: Really?

MARTY: I've never seen a mother that has children that doesn't tear up when they hear that song. It strikes a chord with mothers. It was a neat song to write, because I don't have children, so for me it was like I wrote it from the perspective of what would I feel if I had a little girl what would I feel like. I wrote it based on that.

AJ: Then it was perfect for Maxx's soft side.

MARTY: Then once I said, "Hey, man, show us what you got." He brought all kinds of dimensions to us & we were able to fit it nicely on the record. So, it's a very eclectic album. You can hear one song & then something completely different that sounds like a different band. But, that's what makes it neat, I think.

AJ: There was something you just said that has been going through my head. The album is called Darkness & Light. You've also got it divided into 2 parts. The first part is labeled "Darkness". The second part is labeled "Light." Then each section has some bonus tracks. This looks like a vinyl album with side A & side B. This doesn't look like a CD. Marty, can you explain what you guys tried to create here?

MARTY: You hit it on the head, Aaron. That's exactly what we wanted to do. We kinda drifted back to the 70's where it's not necessarily a concept album, but it was more like a 2 sided record. In fact, at one point we considered putting it on 2 discs, but we were able to fit it all on one. It's a pretty long album & we were able to get it all on one. But, the idea behind it was the first side of the album is the dark side, we call it. It's a heavier, darker sounding ... "Healing" was a very very hard song for me to write. It's a dark song. There's not another way to describe it. Then on the Light side we got into some of the more power ballads. We did more singer-songwriter sort of stuff. We even did a version of "Will The Circle Be Unbroken." & we finished it up with "Amazing Grace", so it really was like turning the corner. It's like there is where we came & this is where we're going. So, it was purposely done that way. The guy that created the album cover for us his name is Gary Kelly. We worked with him in PARIS KEELING in the past. He actually coined the name of the album, because when I talked to him he's an artist, he said "Let me get a feel for what you're going for." I kinda explained it to him & he goes, "I'm kinda thinking like a darkness & light." I said, "Bingo. That's exactly what we want to do." So I thank him for that. We ended up, when we went into the studio to master the album, Dave Harris at Studio B did the mastering, & it was a bit of a challenge, because we were running some of the darker stuff through tape, which isn't done a whole lot these days. But, there was a sound we wanted to get. Then on the Light side it was much more upbeat, you know, happy-go-lucky kind of stuff, so it's like mixing 2 different records. That is exactly what we tried for, so I'm glad you picked up on that.

AJ: That means you did something right, Marty.

MARTY: I guess I did!

AJ: I was listening to the album before this interview & there's a lot of great songs. One of them just hit me. One from the Light side was "Baby Beautiful".

MARTY: That song was written by Maxx & was one of the ones he contributed to the album. When we heard the demo for the album & he kinda sang it, we were all very excited & we all really really dug into the song. It turned out great. I would say it's a great example of what we did as 5 guys coming together & kicking out a pretty good song. It's definitely one of the favorites.

AJ: Marty, we've talked a little bit about the band, but we've got to share something very important. Where can people go online to find out more about PERMANENT REVERSE & your activities.

MARTY: Very simple. If you want to find the PERMANENT REVERSE album you can go to permanentreverse.com. There's a link there to get a hard copy on CD & also a link to itunes. Another good place to always check on my projects & things is martyparis.com. There's a lot of links there & it's an easy way to keep up with us.

AJ: Thanks, Marty. Have you guys toured?

MARTY: The PERMANENT REVERSE tour has not happened. We are talking about doing something in the fall.

AJ: Have you performed live at all?

MARTY: We did the one show live in Iowa that kinda kicked it all off.

AJ: Obviously, everyone has projects they're doing, so you're working around 5 guys schedules.

MARTY: Absolutely. Then you throw in family life these days & we're not as young as we used to be. But, we'll definitely get it together. The good thing about the chemistry on the album & because it's our material we can probably get together for a couple days & rehearse & get it out quickly. So, just keep your eyes peeled.

AJ: One thing I noticed when listening to the album is there's ... I don't know if it's deliberate on your part as composer or lyricist or if it's just the feeling that comes off of it ... but, there seems to be this sort of spiritual underpinning on it. I was having flashbacks, a little bit, of TSO of their Christian & Christmas motif, particularly as Maxx was in both bands. I don't find a lot of rock albums these days that have any sort of spiritual feeling. Is this me, or is this something that's in there lyrically that is supposed to be there?

MARTY: Absolutely there. I'm very deep in my faith. Everything I do is based around my faith. So, yeah, you will definitely pick up on it here & there. When we talk about the PARIS KEELING stuff, when you listen to that album a lot of the stuff that was written & recorded, at the time we didn't even pick up on it as much as when we went back & listened. So, it's almost a subconscious level thing. Absolutely. You're not picking up on that by mistake at all. We're all pretty grounded & it really influences every aspect of my life, so absolutely.

AJ: I know many of my friends have commented to me how it's a really powerful album. While even with a lot of songs on it, it doesn't get too heavy or feel too long. There's also a lot of variety that keeps it fresh. It's a really great ride through different emotions & different experiences.

MARTY: Like I say, too, I never write a song for the sake of writing a song.

AJ: What do you mean?

MARTY: I've said this on many interviews I've done in the past. Every song I've ever written means something to me & it's typically a life experience. I don't sit down & write a song for the sake of a lyric or a melody. I always connect with it very deeply from a songwriter's side of things. So, that's a compliment.

AJ: Do you see yourself as a songwriter or a guitarist or a singer, or whatever?

MARTY: I don't know. I'm kinda a jack of all trades & a master at none. I love producing. I'm a writer. I think I'm probably, maybe in my mind, a better writer than anything else, but I've been playing guitar a long time & it just kinda comes natural. Where I've really dug in & really found a lot of passion was producing. I think just being in the room with creative guys & seeing the energy & the passion & being able to direct that in an environment where it ends up into a product is very exciting. So, I would say, I'm equally matched at all of them, but I think where I'm really feeling led right now is on the production & producing side. & I'll always right. I've been writing songs since I was very young. I've written songs for other people. I love writing songs. It's a way for me to express. A way for me to get experiences out. To tell stories I might not tell otherwise. The song "Life" on the PARIS KEELING album is very personal to me. I mentioned "Healing" was a very personal song to me, too. So, for me, it's a way to get it out there without having to tell the story. It's a neat thing.

AJ: I want to turn now, because we keep hinting at it, let's talk about PARIS KEELING, the project you did with the great vocalist Kelly Keeling. Can you tell me a little bit about how PARIS KEELING happened?

MARTY: It's an interesting story, actually. I was working with the SKULLS PROJECT. I was up in the NY area. I had written a song on 9-11. I was living in the city on that day & it was very unsettling for me. In fact, a girlfriend that I had at the time was actually in front of the World Trade Center when the first plane flew in. She called me & said "A plane just flew into the WTC." I look out my window & I've got a good view of the city & I see a smoking hole at the top. I'm like that's strange. It's like it's probably some sort of a private plane or something, because it didn't look ... the hole in the original building didn't look that big. It didn't look like a 767 or whatever it was. I ended up walking outside. The second plane actually had kinda come over the bridge. You know it did that massive bank behind that building & I kinda lost view of it. It was very confusing for me. & my phone rang again. She said to me "This is intentional. We're being attacked." I could not process. It was very unsettling. Within 2 hours I went upstairs & I started writing the lyrics for "Tears Of Heaven". It really helped me to deal with the situation. The terrorists state, their Holy War. Whose god are they fighting for? I was very confused. I couldn't believe in someone killing & murdering in the name of God, because it doesn't typically work that way. So, the song was written out in a very real way. I kinda shelved it. Then on 7-7 when they had the terrorist bombings in London on the buses & the subways, it was like ... I was like at it again. So, I revisited the song & I actually recorded the song as "7/7". I had another singer in NY. His name is Roger Butterly. actually did the original vocals for that song. There was a label in the U.K. that wanted to release the track as a single, because it was called "7/7". It was a twist on the 9-11 attack & the 7/7. So, when we started to look at the track, Rick Van Benschoten, an incredibly talented guy, producer, bass player, just an amazing amazing guy, we got together & started to revisit the track. "You know what, I really want a more powerful vocal on this." We agreed to start looking & I reached out to Joe Lynn Turner [of RAINBOW] at the time, his manager up in NJ. He was tied up in a project. I think, I want to say, it was [his solo album] The Usual Suspect. There was an album he was working on & it was going to be some time before I could get with him to potentially do it. So, I had literally, about 3 days prior to that, I had bought the Furious George cover album, which was George Lynch's cover album that he did. The vocals on that album just really blew me away. I really didn't dig into that much. But, I found myself with that CD one night & I picked it up & I said "Kelly Keeling, that guy can sing." & I can tell you, there's not a better rock singer anywhere, as far as I'm concerned. I reached out to his management. I would say within a week he & I connected. It was on New Years Eve we were chatting & I sent him the track. He responded pretty quickly with definitely wanted to do the track. So, he was in NY very soon after that. That's when Don got involved. Don Dokken actually wrote the chorus for that song. We were struggling a bit. If you have a copy of "7/7" which came out in 2005, it was released. You can get it on itunes. Then you listen to "Tears Of Heaven", the chorus took a very different direction & that was all Don. We were in the studio that night & we cut the vocals for it & the song really came home. It was like this is what's the song's supposed to be. & Kelly & I had a really good relationship working together & we decided to work on another track & then the next thing you know we're writing a record & that's where PARIS KEELING was born. Rick Van Benschoten was actually my professor at NYU, which is odd enough, but we became friends & he's one heck of a fretless bass player. When I said we needed a bass player he joined right in. Then Gintas Janusonis, who is the drummer on that album ... incredible drummer. He's worked with Carlos Santana & he's worked with Tony Bennett. He's just an amazing NYC drummer. I knew him through a friend of mine Robert Mueller who is kind of a jazz fusion keyboard player & I'd seen him out doing shows in the city & I loved his style. So, brought Gintas in & the band was really formed right then & there. Then Matt Goeke, whose a philharmonic player, he's a cellist, I wanted to do something with strings. I just didn't know what. He came in & the band was born. It was just an amazing project because we did some things that were a little different. That's how PARIS KEELING came about. It all started on 9-11. That sounds odd, but that's exactly what happened.

AJ: I notice some of the songs on the album you've written, some with Kelly. Obviously, you have Dokken in there. How did you figure out ... was there a plan, like "You've got some songs. I've got some songs." Or, was it just this organic thing where you each had stuff that worked together or ... ? I guess, how did you divide the album up, is what I'm trying to ask.

MARTY: It was a little bit of all of that, really. "Free", which was one of Kelly's songs brought to the album, that was all Kelly. Amazing track. We ended up dedicating that to the troops. There was a slide show put up on youtube for that song & it really connected to what was going on, because, you know, the Iraq War was imminent & a lot of things were going on. The only thing I really added to that track was Matt came in with some string players that we hired & we scored it & we did that. "Morning Song" was a demo that he'd done that he brought to the album & that made the record. Then the rest of the stuff we kinda co-wrote. The song "Color Blind" was a track that was on another album. It was called "Girl." It's actually, if you can get a copy of that song & listen to it, it's the actual same track except for vocals. We were in the studio one night & Kelly's like "We can do something better with this, I think." I'd written that song when I was like 14. It was very sophomoric, because that was the period when I wrote it. We pinned that song about 3 o'clock in the morning. We cut the vocal that night & it turned out to be brilliant. So, it was definitely organic. There was a lot of things Kelly had in the can. There was a lot of things I had in the can. So, it was us coming together, really, & us just kinda cranking it out. So, it was a very fun project.

AJ: Now, you hadn't worked with Kelly before, right?

MARTY: Not until the End Of Ride album, which was the album that came out in 2006. That was the original release of that album. No, we had not worked together. The first time we worked together was on the "Tears Of Heaven" track.

AJ: Kelly has quite an extensive resume. Don Dokken, Michael Schenker & TRAN-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, Carmine Appice, Erik Norlander. Did you learn anything working with him?

MARTY: Absolutely. Kelly is an amazing musician, first & foremost. He can play anything. If it plays music he can play it. Incredible writer. Great singer. He really opened a lot of doors for me, too, because obviously with his body of work that had been out there opened doors for me. I mean, [prog keyboardist of ASIA FEATURING JOHN PAYNE] Erik Norlander got involved. Actually, it's a funny story. The "End Of Ride" track that ended up being the title track was actually 3 different songs & Kelly had recorded the intro for that on his own. That's actually his guitar track on there. We kinda had it. Then the end part was recorded in a studio in Atlanta. It's hard to understand if you're not familiar with a studio. But, we had to come in & we took these tracks, we got them into the console & we had to carve this place in the middle for "Middle Of The Road." We couldn't figure out how to do the click track, because the tempo was changing, it was 3 different songs. We called up Erik, "Erik, we need help." Erik is a genius. Programming, keyboards, recording, he can do it. He sent us, literally that night, it was really early in the morning, he sent us a click track that actually lined it all up. So, we did & then we sat down & dug into the middle part of the song & we recorded that. Then we literally put it all together. The guy who helped us to produce that track his name is Bob Engel & he works out of Reflection Sound Studios, which is now closed, but legendary studio in Charlotte, NC. I'm sure you're familiar with it yourself having lived in the area, but R.E.M. cut their first record there. A lot of things have come out of that studio. So, we're in that studio & they were able to get it all together where it ended up being very cohesive & it was cool. & Gintas was tied up. Kelly was so excited about this track he's saying "We've got to cut this track. We've got to cut this track." So, we call up Corky, because they were band mates in BATON ROUGE, & Corky drove in & did the drums. So, that introduction there is what tied together PERMANENT REVERSE in so many ways. So, yes, learned a lot from Kelly. Just his energy level & his willingness to do what it takes to get it done. He inspired me for sure. Just an incredible musician. It was a true honor to work with him.

AJ: It's interesting to say that he inspired you, because I'm reminded of one of the tracks on End Of Ride Revisited, the reissue with bonus tracks, one of Kelly's compositions "Head Straight". I'm looking at the lyrics now & it's very much tied into what you just told me about him inspiring you & also about writing "7-7" & having your head be anything but straight in the midst of this terrorist attack. I feel like this is a song that ties together many things that were in the pot that brewed up PARIS KEELING.

MARTY: I asked him about those lyrics, because if you bust out those lyrics on that album, most of the songs are very straight forward & you kinda get the message. When you read the lyrics for "Head Straight" it's kinda like, "Wow, where'd that come from?" I asked him about that, actually. He'd written that song several years prior. He was out in San Diego & he was stopping to pick up a pack of gum or something at a news stand & it was like the National Enquirer was there & it said the aliens are coming to do something. He was inspired to write that song. Carmine Appice plays drums on that track. Unmistakably Carmine. It's one of my favorites.

AJ: On the reissue you have a live version of that song, in addition to the original studio one from the original album release. I prefer the live one. You guys just let it go. It's very relaxed & that shows in the fun opening banter introducing yourselves.

MARTY: I'll tell you what makes that song different from the studio version is one very critical thing, really, is Rick Van Benschoten played on that version. He did not play on the original studio version. I think the bass on that really made a difference. He was playing like a ... he's a fretless player & that song did not lend itself to fretless, & he was playing my Fender Mustang, which is, for those guitar players out there, it's like a guitar player's bass. It's a very small bass. It was plugged in & had this very distinct growl to it & that's really what made the difference. But, you have a choice. You can listen to either version on that album.

AJ: I know what the difference is, but let's explain to those who might look up PARIS KEELING & find this End Of Ride album & then they see End Of Ride Revisited. Obviously, the difference is that one has some bonus tracks which include [guitarist] Al Pitrelli [of TSO, MEGADETH] & Erik Norlander & your version of "Telephone Line". But, how come you did 2 versions of this album?

MARTY: That's an easy answer. When we released the original album it was right before Kelly went on tour with TSO for the first time & I was very anxious to get it out & available. Because, one thing about TSO is they touch so many lives. I could tell you what city Kelly was playing to that night by tracking sales of the album because people would go to the show & they would say "Who is that guy?". Then they'd google him & they'd find the record. For me it was very important to get it out, so what we did was we independently released the album really earlier than we probably would have planned on doing. I was actually contacted by Surgeland Records a couple years later who really liked the album. We're musicians. We don't do PR necessarily. We will, but it's not our bread & butter. They wanted to re-release the album & actually get it out there for distribution. It went out on Koch, which is the largest distributor out there & the record label really brought us a way to sell the album. Whereas, when we first released it, it was a self-release. We sold it on our own website with our t-shirts & it was very different. A lot of people say it was remastered & all that, but I can tell you, because I produced the album, we didn't turn it up. We didn't make it louder to re-release it. What we really did is we brought it back together. I sent them sound recordings. They changed the order to make more sense. & they wanted to add bonus tracks to give the folks who had the first version incentive to buy it. The only track that's different ... well, there's 2 differences for those that are trivia hounds. On the original release "End Of Ride" was 3 tracks. It was "Welcome", "Middle Of The Road" & "End Of Ride." On the record label release, Revisited, it was one track & it was called "End Of Ride Suite." So, there was no breaks. & then on "Free", for those who really want to dig in, if you listen to "Free" on the original album the guitar goes mono at the very end. When it's just Kelly's voice, the strings are gone, & he says "We'll always need the light", if you listen to the guitar real closely there it goes mono because we lost one side of the track so I panned it in the middle. If you listen to "Free" on Revisited it actually is fixed. But, other than that, the tracks are exactly the same except for the bonus tracks.

AJ: That's pretty hardcore trivia, Marty.

MARTY: Yeah, for those that really want to dig in that's the only difference. & I can tell you that the second go round, obviously with the distribution deal, it made a lot of difference. I would like to think the original version would be a bit of a collector's item, because you can't find them. When the original albums were pressed there were no more ever done.

AJ: Tell me, as we near the end of our time together, Marty, what are you working on now & what's in your future?

MARTY: I have a new band I'm putting together called BARBARIAN WAY & It's more of the Christian genre of rock. It's new guys. I can't give away too much.

AJ: That's alright.

MARTY: But, it's a guy that you'll see out doing some big things in the very near future before the album releases, so you'll definitely get to know him. He's a young kid. He's from the area. He's getting ready to go off & do some big things. We're going to be recording the album when he comes off tour. It's really very new stuff. I'm experimenting with all kinds of different ideas with sounds & production & it's exciting. It'll be out next year & it's called BARBARIAN WAY.

AJ: You said it's Christian. Obviously, it's rock'n'roll, but what's the style? Might it be like what we've heard from you?

MARTY: No, it's going to be different. I've got to change it a bit. It's very different. It's a much more modern, I think it's going to be a modern take on what's going on today in the music biz. But, interesting. In fact, I should probably have the teaser track done soon. It's a much more modern current kind of rock. It's definitely for the ones that like the harder rock.

AJ: Excellent. Marty, I appreciate you spending your time sharing your work with me.

MARTY: Glad to do it, Aaron. Thanks for having me.

AJ: Is there anything else you want to share that we haven't gotten to?

MARTY: You know what, you asked some goods questions & I got to tell some neat stories, so thanks for letting me do that.

"Animal Rescue Unit" An Interview With MICHAEL T. ROSS

2015-03-03T10:12:00.003-08:00

August 2011 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #26)

Question: What do the following bands have in common - Lizzy Borden, Missing Persons, Lita Ford, Tommy Tutone, Michael Schenker Group, Steve Vai, Derek Sherinian of Dream Theater & Las Vegas's Raiding The Rock Vault show? Answer: They all share rock keyboardist Michael T. Ross as a member, guest or touring band member. What more needs to be said of one of the more in demand rock keyboardists on the West Coast whose name might not be household, but amongst his peers his resume grows longer by the year. He is currently performing in Vegas with the Raiding The Rock Vault show.

I interviewed Michael as one of my special guests for the month long first anniversary celebration of my Roman Midnight Music podcast. Other guests were Sophie B. Hawkins & frontman Charles Canedo of NYC band Tired Wings. Technical difficulties meant I was unable to get Michael on the air when he called in, so I gave an extra detailed opening while fixing the problem which is mentioned at the beginning of the interview. I connected up in Michael in an uncanny way deserving re-telling. I was starting my work day & picked up a random CD to listen to which happened to be Lita Ford, out of literal 100 CDs on my desk. Getting on e-mail there's a letter from her keyboardist, Michael, who had heard about my show through an interview I'd done with Lizzy Borden's ex-guitarist Chris Sanders. It was a small coincidence. I then researched Michael's bio, finding he was with Missing Persons with Terry Bozzio. That day I'm walking down the sidewalk in NYC & see a t-shirt in front of me featuring a supergroup with Bozzio's name on it. This is not a name I see regularly. Second coincidence. Later Michael sent me an e-mail of his work which includes working with a Croatian musician. My then housemate was a pianist who had recently started learning Croatian music, which I didn't know until I mentioned the e-mail from Michael. Next coincidence. While I had also gotten at this time an e-mail from a Croatian guitarist who supposedly was the only Croatian to appear on MTV & looking for a review. Croatia? Of all countries! The last coincidence but it was too many to not notice. As for the doubters ... no, I'm not a diehard Lita fan always listening to her music. I hadn't listened to an album by hers in a year at least. While of all the musicians in the world to email me & for me to see it at that moment is rather small it would be a Lita alumni. Let's just say I knew Michael & I had to talk.

* * * * *

AJ: Thank you so much for joining me & I hope my introduction at least covered the main points of your resume.

MICHAEL: I appreciate that so much, going over the different things that I do.

AJ: Did I miss anything?

MICHAEL: I think you were pretty detailed there. I do work with a lot of artists. It gets confusing to me sometimes.

AJ: You've worked with so many people, but let's start with what you're doing right now. You're about to go on the road with Lita Ford.

MICHAEL: Right now, I just got back from the Musician's Institute here in Hollywood. I performed all day today. It's a live workshop program with guitarist Ken Steiger. I always participate there, because I really like to play with the kids. They're our next generation of metalheads. A lot of times they don't get the opportunity to see a rock keyboard player coming in there & playing. We played "Mr. Crowley" [by Ozzy Osbourne] today. You know, it's back to the basics & the rock'n'roll that we grew up on. I just love giving back to the kids. Ken is actually a 14 year instructor there. I work with him & he brings me to the school, so today was actually a really nice day for me. It was a day to give back to the kids. But, yeah, I'm here in L.A. right now. I live in Las Vegas. I come back & forth. I'm visiting friends here & doing this gig. I fly out early next week for Lita's shows. We're all over the place.

AJ: You said something now that I was thinking about today. You said you're playing with the next generation. I guess we should mention that Jani Lane [of WARRANT] passed away today.

MICHAEL: Yes, what a loss for us.

AJ: Absolutely. You & I grew up on his music. I realized we've lost a lot of great musicians, like Ronnie James Dio, while others are getting older & not performing as much. Being that you work with youth, would you comment on how you see the future of rock'n'roll, heavy metal & the music you play?

MICHAEL: Things are moving so fast & there's so many different styles out there, they're inter-changing with each other. It's not that music is territorial, but we had Seattle rock & then Orange County. I'm really into a lot of the European rock music that has bled into the American market & that are doing very well for themselves. I think Finland is a really great breeding ground for new & up-comers. Look, I grew up listening to the greats. I just recently saw a DEEP PURPLE concert & watching Ian Gillan up there & Roger Glover & seeing them still do it today. I'm in my early 40's so I didn't really get to catch those shows back in the day, you know. So, it's great to see them come back. I recently saw Ted Nugent. That's the advantage of being in L.A. & Vegas. They come through here in time & you get to see your idols. But, at the same time, I'm living in today's market & I'm out to sell tickets, CD's & all that stuff, & you gotta be in tune to what the kids are doing today, because they're influencing what we all listen to in general. So, I don't know. I don't have an answer for that really or an opinion about it. I don't know. It just all kinda comes together. You play with the kids during the day & at night you watch Ian Gillan, you know. He's still going for it.

AJ: Basically, just worrying about the present, worrying about selling tickets & looking forward to what the kids are going to see tomorrow, right?

MICHAEL: Absolutely, but I think, maybe, the influence of the children & then growing up & being musicians themselves & then you have situations like Darrell Dimebag getting shot. The kids have to deal with that, because they are in love with him still. Even today we pay homage to Randy Rhoads. 17 year old kids are learning his leads. It's awesome. But, what does the future hold for them? Jani Lane passed. A lot of these kids know who QUIET RIOT is. They know Kevin DuBrow passed on drugs or whatever it was.

AJ: Another one.

MICHAEL: Another one. Things can look bleak, but at the same time, they make their own choices & hopefully they do good for themselves & we keep rock'n'roll going. We don't want to lose these guys. We don't want to lose the music they left for us. Jani Lane got my attention, amongst many other bands back in the day, because of his lyrics, & I'm not even a lyricist. I like playing instrumental music. I like shredding. But, once in awhile there's a band that has these lyrics that really stick with me & he's definitely one of them. There's a couple songs it's like wow, this is magic this guy speaking. It's great.

AJ: That's a good answer, Michael. I threw you a tough question. Obviously we're doing this on the day the news went out about him & it was going to come up, I'm sure, somehow.

MICHAEL: Of course, absolutely, Aaron, & to pay homage to Ronnie James Dio, as well. That threw us all back & we all have to pay our respects. That's why I'm doing rock'n'roll - to keep it alive. We've all got to get together. You're doing it. You're taking tonight out to talk to me. Everybody getting together to do their little part & it makes one big rock'n'roll world that we live in, that we need. I need it. I know you're addicted to it, too.

AJ: I wouldn't do this otherwise.

Michael: Yeah, we're addicted to music.

AJ: Michael, I actually have someone on the line whose been waiting very patiently. Hello, you're on the air.

CALLER (KADDIE): Hi, Aaron. Can you hear me?

AJ: I can & this is the voice, Michael, of a Miss Kaddie Champion.

KADDIE: That's right.

AJ: I appreciate you calling up & I know you're a supporter. You are actually a ticket holder of a forthcoming Lita Ford performance.

MICHAEL: Yay.

AJ: So, we have someone on the line who is going to be seeing you very very soon.

MICHAEL: That's awesome.

AJ: Kaddie, what would you like to share with Michael?

KADDIE: Yes, there were some technical problems. I couldn't log into the chatroom & I actually had 31 people call my house tonight that had the same problem.

MICHAEL: Wow.

KADDIE: So, I just want you to know.

MICHAEL: I was one of them. I was having trouble getting through, too.

AJ: It's out of my hands.

KADDIE: I know. It's the system. I'm trying so hard to listen to Michael T. Ross because I just love him & he's just a superstar. I just wanted to pass that along to you & let you know.

MICHAEL: I want to mention this, we all have technical difficulties. Even down to ... playing today I did "Mr. Crowley" & I used a pedal. These things have a mind of their own. It was acting like a hold pedal, so when I was playing everything was blending together. I had to pull this thing out. I kinda choked for a second. You know, it happens.

KADDIE: Right, exactly. But, I just wanted you to know that you have a lot more supporters than you see in the chatroom.

MICHAEL: Great, thank you.

KADDIE: No problem. I'm just super excited. I'm super excited that I get to see you next weekend. I was at M3 Rock Festival & you performed. Michael is just a brilliance. He's just a genius. I'm just super excited. I would like to know ... this is a private joke, but when are you going to pick my trash up? But, really, when did you first get interested, I know you've performed all different kinds of venues, but when did you first get interested in the rock scene?

MICHAEL: I have an older brother & I just basically followed his footsteps. My mom bought a piano. I was 7 years old & for one year I just picked at my brother wanting to play, too. Finally my mom gave in. I continued to play on. So, my brother is 6 years older & was already in rock bands. So, by the time I was in junior high I used my brother's keyboards & I was playing in bands that were older than me, because they were my brother's friends. So, I got an early start & being in the L.A. area I had the resources to support it. It wasn't far-fetched to say I want to play music for a living.

KADDIE: Right.

MICHAEL: So, I had opportunities. I just went for you. I just took every opportunity that I could. I just wanted to play. I started as a piano player & it turned into keyboards. I like playing other styles as well, but as I got older my love for AOR music & melodic rock, JOURNEY & you know all that stuff that we all love. I just found myself wanting to be just a keyboard player that's out there rocking out &, you know, enjoying music.

KADDIE: Absolutely.

MICHAEL: You know, to meet so many people & to make so many great things happen out of that it's gone so much further than I ever would have imagined. You know, I kept my day job for a long time & everybody around me is like "You're ridiculous." It's like that threshold in your life. You leave your day job & your comfort zone & go do this. Or, are you going to screw your life up because you have something good now. You're solid. You've got your apartment or your house, you've got your car. All that goes out the window once you sell your soul to rock'n'roll, I think. Touring & stuff I don't see my cat that often. My little boy is on the screensaver of my phone. I stare at him.

KADDIE: Your cat's name is Lynot?

MICHAEL: Yeah, why not? Because, I love THIN LIZZY, like I'm sure you both do. I named him after Phil. Yeah, so, it just came about because of my environment & everybody supported me along the way & I like to stay busy & just keep rolling with the punches. I started playing on as many records as I can & try to do as many gigs as I can & keep that going.

KADDIE: Who is your favorite artist that you've performed with?

MICHAEL: Well, I have different meanings to certain people. Like Alen Brentini [a guitarist in Croatia]. It means the world to me to go on the other side of the world & perform with such great talent.

KADDIE: Yeah, he's awesome.

MICHAEL: We're in the middle of a new record & have a video out called "Voice Like An Angel". It's a single that we did. When I was out in December we recorded it.

KADDIE: That brings tears to my eyes.

MICHAEL: Really? Great. Thank you. It's a ballad, yes. Like the world needs another ballad, but we felt it. Then on the other hand I have my idols that I grew up watching live & listening to. Getting to work with them means a lot to me. It's on all different scales. I mean, I've played with TOMMY TUTONE & we've obviously been listening to "867-5309/Jenny". That song reminds me of an old girlfriend in high school. So, [lead singer] Tommy Heath means a lot to me when I jam with him on that song because it reminds me of the past. Then you have Lita. Around 1989 she was the supporting act for Yngwie Malmsteen on tour & he was really in his prime & I was liking his music a lot. She opened up & wow. I was going there thinking Yngwie, but my mind was settling in on Lita & thinking it would be so awesome to play for women of rock. I love supporting women & especially in the music business. It's rad, to me. So, getting to play with Lita & then Dale Bozzio [of MISSING PERSIONS]. I grew up listening to the MISSING PERSONS songs & all those synthesizers & New Wave. Like she's the queen of New Wave. Dale Bozzio has even commented on Lady Gaga today, saying "Kinda reminds me of me 25 years ago." It means a lot to me to play with her. So, it's in all different levels, but I get a lot of love out of each one of them, really.

KADDIE: Wow, that's awesome.

AJ: Kaddie, I have someone else on the line, so I have got to let you go. But, I want to ask you a quick question first. Is there a song that you want to hear Lita & company do? Is there a favorite song from them? & maybe it might make it to the set list?

KADDIE: Not really. "Kiss Me Deadly". My favorites are really with Michael like with HARD LINE & with Alen Brentini. I'm going to see Lita, but specifically to see Michael T. Ross, because he's just a superstar. That's the main reason I'm going. I've got about 20 friends that are going with me. He's my main reason. I mean, he's just a super talent. He's just amazing.

MICHAEL: I appreciate that very much. We're going to put on an amazing show for you. Lita is all fired up. She's just ready to rock, I'm telling you. It's gonna be nice. Oh, you & I have one little connection here you haven't mentioned to everybody, right? You even followed up on me.

KADDIE: That you're my trashman?

MICHAEL: I own the dumptruck & pick up your trash. What is it, on Tuesdays or Thursdays?

KADDIE: Thursday. You forgot & haven't picked it up in a few weeks.

MICHAEL: The MTR dumptruck is going to pick up your trash, remember that?

KADDIE: I never forget. Did you get the picture that I sent you by e-mail?

MICHAEL: I sure did. We met on facebook ...

KADDIE: I sent a picture of my dumptruck & I did artwork on it & did Michael T. Ross dumptruck & put "Outside of 77 Shred Street."

MICHAEL: Let me say real quick, when we first met I offered her my services because I have an MTR dumptruck that can come pick your trash up on Thursdays. She e-mailed me the following Thursday & said "I didn't see you. Where's your truck?" Anyways, I wanted to throw that in there. Thank you.

KADDIE: You're awesome, Michael.

MICHAEL: I'll see you soon.

AJ: I'm going to let you go & bring on our other caller now. I appreciate you calling.

KADDIE: Can't wait to see you, Michael.

MICHAEL: Me, too.

AJ: Thanks. Alright, we have a caller online. I apologize for keeping them waiting, but welcome to the show.

CALLER (STEPHANIE): Hello. Hi, I'm Stephanie. How are you?

AJ: Hi, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE: Hi, Michael T. Ross.

MICHAEL: Hello. Thanks for calling in to the show.

STEPHANIE: Thanks. Also, awesome that you mentioned Jani Lane & your thoughts on that. Let's hope that future musicians are in it for the right reasons. Michael, I never technically met you, but you were performing on the east coast & staying at a hotel I was. Actually, I found Michael T. Ross through his piano playing & I was quite compelled by this man with curly dark hair & green eyes playing like all this classical music. It was like wow. I don't know if I remember me, Michael, but I talked to you & you told me you were in Lita Ford. I thought you were amazing. So, I kept in touch with you on facebook. I don't know if you recall that?

MICHAEL: I don't, but I appreciate that.

STEPHANIE: I just called in to say I love Lita Ford & you're amazing. I would equate you to Jonathan Cain from JOURNEY. You have so much talent the world has yet to know, really. I didn't have much chance to talk to you, but did you have classical training?

MICHAEL: Yes, I did, for the first 10 years, with my brother. My mother wouldn't let us have a synthesizer until we were very well into the classical music program. & each summer I would go to a music summer camp & continue studying. I had a private teacher who taught me so much. Bless her. She recently passed. I lost touch with my piano teacher for so many years. It was a weird situation, because her husband was like sabotaging our relationship, because as I grew older he didn't want me around. So, it was sad for me, because when I finally start to get to the point of my playing where it was sounding good she got cut out of my life. So, my piano teacher, Caroline, she had to deal with all the ups & downs of my playing & when it finally came together I couldn't share it with her. Her husband always kept her away from her. Finally, about a year & a half ago she contacted me & said he said it's okay now because she was dying of cancer. I wrote a song for her & immediately went over to Newport Beach & played it for her. It meant a lot to me to do that. I just recently lost my mother a few months ago. My mom really believed in me & my playing. She said that when she was a young child she had a dream that she had a son who played classical piano.

STEPHANIE: I'm sorry for your losses.

MICHAEL: So I carry on & classical music means a lot to me. It represents all that I talked about.

STEPHANIE: That's a big reason that I called in, because when I saw you at that piano bar you were playing classical & when I heard Lita Ford I went "Wait, how does a guy who is amazing at classical end up in a rock band?" I think you were playing "Love Story" or something like that. I was just blown away by you.

MICHAEL: Thank you.

STEPHANIE: I know you're in the rock world, but I really hope to see you do lots of things. I think in time I could see you putting out a solo album, just for you. I really wish that for you with all your other successes. I think you deserve a lot more acclaim than just that. I actually got to witness that in the lobby.

MICHAEL: Thank you so much.

STEPHANIE: & you're actually a real gentleman. I gotta say you're really friendly to everyone. I'm glad I was able to connect with you here. I just don't know if the rest of the world knows what I saw that day. Here's this long haired rocker & he plays classical music. You're one of the few, Michael, & I just want to wish you the best & God bless.

MICHAEL: I appreciate that very much.

AJ: Thank you for calling, Stephanie, & sharing.

STEPHANIE: Thank you for allowing me to talk to Michael.

AJ: My pleasure. I'm glad to have him here & be able to talk to his fans. Thanks for holding on so long to share your thoughts.

MICHAEL: Bye & thank you. Please come out to one of the shows.

STEPHANIE: I will, I will. I promise. Bye.

AJ: Michael, I know it's always nice to hear from the people who are in the audience listening to you. I want to pick up with something Stephanie touched upon. What does Michael T. Ross want to do in the future? You've played in reunited bands, you've done little projects here & there, you've guested ... what is your heart really looking forward to doing someday?

MICHAEL: Having an animal rescue unit & saving cats & dogs all over the county whereever I live.

AJ: Okay, I didn't expect that answer, but that's a great answer.

MICHAEL: That's what I really want to be doing.

AJ: I love the answer.

MICHAEL: That's really what I want to do.

AJ: Any involvement with music?

MICHAEL: I'll play them my music as I'm adopting them. Anyways, it's a good question. It's hard for me to answer in one shot here. It's my life, you know. On a real basic sense, I've been doing this for many years & I'm constantly having to work & keep getting these gigs & keep going with it & feed myself. If my fingers don't play today I don't eat today, you know. It's a job. It's my life. It's my livelihood & I gotta do that. I love rock'n'roll. I love DEEP PURPLE. I love KANSAS. I love all that & I play it. I found that as I grew older there was a need, there was a void there. I couldn't stand going to a club & hearing "Easy Livin'" without keys. It was driving me nuts. Or "Rainbow In The Dark" & there's no keys. Like somebody get up there & do it or somebody learn a few riffs. Somebody has got to do this. There's too many of the other positions. We need to fill this spot. So I felt this crusade for rock keyboards. It's something I've grown to believe in. We hear it all. You can hear keys & everything, but when you go to a club all night often times you don't see a rock keyboardist up there shredding with the guitar player. I'm not saying doing the [guitarist] K.K. Downing thing like JUDAS PRIEST, but not sitting in a corner hiding behind a curtain & nobody even remembers you. Nobody remembers a darn thing that you did. The last thing I want to do is play a kick-ass show, get off stage & they didn't even know I was playing. "So, what are you doing tonight? What are you up to?" "Dude, I just played." I want them to remember me. So, there's a whole other character side to the rock keyboard position that I get to incorporate & that's me. I'm kinda goofy & I have Hello Kitty stuff on stage & I have leopard crap & I wear platform shoes. I have scarfs everywhere. I tie my keyboard with scarfs. You know anything goes. There's no rules for rock keyboardists.

AJ: It's interesting you'd say that, Michael, because, & this isn't a personal thing to you in the least, I know when I go to a show & I'm looking at all of the musicians up there. I see a keyboardist whose way in the corner or up by the drum riser, basically out of sight. I know you've worked with Derek Sherinian [formerly of DREAM THEATER & Alice Cooper], who at one point was with KISS behind the amps echoing all the lead guitar lines & singing back-up vocals. But, nobody saw him.

MICHAEL: Right, right.

AJ: The keyboardist, for me, in a rock band is like the most unglamorous instrument it seems like. You're stuck behind this thing that doesn't move, you're in the corner & as you said you walk off stage & people don't know you. That's how I'm often seeing your instrument.

MICHAEL: Exactly. I wouldn't have signed up for this if I was in those predicaments.

AJ: I'm curious, how does that effect you as a keyboardist knowing that sometimes your lines might be lost under the guitars or someone might say they want you up in the corner. Just in general, as a piano player, what's the psychological end of it?

MICHAEL: I fight every night for my levels. The house guy is my best friend. For Lita for a certain leg of the tours we were using George Marshall, whose the house guy for TWISTED SISTER. As we were on the road, at the hotel I would go over the set list with him & say "Look, on the fourth song I'm going to bring in these really raunchy organs & I really want that to pop." So, you work with them & as you go on the road they take care of your levels. But, when I went to the school today & played it's like immediately the monitor guy up on stage I became friends with him. I already know ahead of time I'm in for a battle each time. You may have noticed in my pictures I don't use keyboard stands. I use Marshall half-stands & build up with boxes, anvil cases, old bar stools. I drape it. I fix it up & make it nice. So, every single night, every single photo you see I'm using something different. I'll use a trashcan. Plastic trashcans, upside down, 2 of them & put the most beautiful leopard silky tarp over it & its killer, you know. I'll go simple. I'm not trying to recreate something here or save the world of keyboards or anything, but I'm really just like having fun with it & noticing that for a lot of the other players around me that's not an importance, but it is for me. I remember joining MISSING PERSONS through Chip Z'Nuff [bassist of Enuff Z'nuff]. I've known him for years but I was never buds with him. He would put a white jacket on & a scarf & glasses. He's got this character about him you will remember forever. He influenced me a lot. In MISSING PERSONS I got to wear scarfs & again platform boots. Have fun with it. Get a little glam. Who cares, you know. I'm not trying to be Joe Cool. I'm just trying to put on a good show. I don't have any tattoos. I don't have any piercings. I just keep my hair long, because it's just thick Hebrew Jew lock hair. I don't even have a heavy metal hairdo. I like what I do. Look, there's a lot of people that need it & they want to hire me & I'm just blessed.

AJ: Of all the folks you've worked with, big & small, really famous & really not, have there been a few who have just been like a teacher to you? Like you learned so much that you didn't expect you were going to learn when you walked into the gig?

MICHAEL: I have 2. T Lavitz. He was my first teacher. I started with T Lavitz & for 3 years I worked with him in Santa Monica. He was in DIXIE DREGS the whole time with Steve Morse, Dave LaRue & Rod Morgenstein. I came from that camp & T taught me a lot. I was born in Mississippi, but I didn't have much blues & soul. I don't know, I was more like neo-classical shred, the Yngwie era, that got my attention because it was classical. T brought me back to the roots. After him I studied with Derek Sherinian for many years, like you mentioned. It was an honor for me to be co-engineering his Mythology record in 2004 & getting to work with [guitarists] Zakk Wylde & Steve Lukather & [drummer] Simon Phillips. Through those connections I hired Simon to produce my record in 2007 with a band called ACCOMPLICE, who I grew up playing with in orange county. So, I got to work with great people. T. Lavitz is my first one. The second one I have to give it to Derek because he showed me the way. He let me close into his life & show me how its done, because he's a rock icon keyboardist of our time.

AJ: Alice Cooper, DREAM THEATER, KISS, a solo career, he's done a lot.

MICHAEL: When he left DREAM THEATER I was right there. It was May 1999. I was right there. I went "This guy is like the future of keyboards." I started taking lessons off him & he later told me that he had taken lessons off T. We lost T last year. That was a big blow to the keyboard world. Those were the 2 guys that helped me in my life & my career.

AJ: You're on the road a lot so that might affect how much new music you hear, but do you pay attention to let's say a new rock keyboardist that might come on the scene? Do you keep your eye open on your peers out there or folks just coming into the spotlight to see what they're doing?

MICHAEL: As much as I can. There is a whole new breed of rock keyboardists that have come out of Europe for the last 5 years, 7 years solid. I gotta tell you, stupid Americano, I try to be international but the names are a little difficult for me, like FIREWIND's keyboardist.

AJ: I don't have a clue.

MICHAEL: I know who he is & his guitar player, Gus G., is in Ozzy now. I've been watching FIREWIND for awhile now & listening to them because they're awesome. Then you have a band I love, PAGAN'S MIND of Norway & I love the keyboardist in that band too, but I couldn't say his name right now. No fault of theirs. I'm sure in their country & abroad people may know their name. I'm aware. I like today's music. For me, the pop music that's out, like the new Britney Spears ... & I'm not saying it too loud ... but the keyboards are really kick-ass. For me, there's a lot more involved than in rock music. Usually I'm hired for organ, piano, strings, but some of this pop music has a lot that's layered with bitchin' keyboards.

AJ: I think that a lot of us forget just how prominent the keyboard is in so much music that we enjoy. That might be because when you see a band on stage the keyboardist, if you even see them, is stuck up in the corner. Like the ROLLING STONES. One of my favorite albums is <u>Goats Head Soup</u> & the keyboards on that, if you know the album, almost dominate the album at times, yet nobody ever thinks of the keyboardist in the ROLLING STONES.

MICHAEL: Like keyboards are treated like a step-child at times.

AJ: Exactly, that's what happens, but yet, like you said, Lady Gaga is a pianist or all these other people are using heavy synthesizers in so much of their music, but somehow the instrument kinda gets lost in the shuffle a little bit. It's uncool or something. I don't know.

MICHAEL: Absolutely. Welcome to my world. I gotta tell you, I've been in a great home for the last 3 years with Lita, because, for many out there who have seen the shows, she really spotlights me. It's good being in a band where the leader of the band is very keyboard friendly & she lets me do a keyboard solo every show. I love that. Being in front of 22,000 people & standing up there alone & my boss is right behind me saying "Go get 'em." "Yes, Lita, you get it, awesome, let's spotlight these keys." I'm in a guitar infested world. No disrespect to my guitar buddies.

AJ: No, but it's true.

MICHAEL: GIT today is a breeding ground for guitars. I love them all. But, it's like I got to fight for my real estate in each situation

AJ: Absolutely. You're in this slot where your instrument has a large role to play but little recognition. I'm a bass player, so I understand a bit of this.

MICHAEL: True. Can I take some bass lessons off you?

AJ: Shit, my bass playing is not up to snuff. If you come to NY, Michael, please let me know. I'm happy to have you over to the house & show you.

MICHAEL: I'm actually going to be there next week. I've got 4 days off in between our shows.

AJ: You are?

MICHAEL: Where you at? I'm not joking.

AJ: In Manhattan. Kick me an e-mail.

MICHAEL: I'll be in Hoboken eating sliced pizza, so I'll e-mail you.

AJ: If there's a way you can get into the city please let me know.

MICHAEL: I will. I'll take the PATH train in.

AJ: I'd love to have you over or whatever.

MICHAEL: That's great. I appreciate your support, if I can plug that right now. You've given me nothing but positive light & love & consistency & detail oriented. I'm just blown away. I'm really happy to be here right now with you, because you've been good to me & I don't get that too often these days.

AJ: Michael, I grew up looking at musicians playing in Seattle coffee houses thinking I wanted to share them with other people. You're a far better musician than I'll ever be & I want to share your talent. So, I'm doing my best to bring you to the fans or fans to you. & we're all working for the same end, that is, sharing great music.

MICHAEL: Absolutely. You rock.

AJ: I try. I try, no matter what computer problems I'm having. I want to ask, how did you hook up with Lita Ford?

MICHAEL: Through Danny Stanton. He's a management company out of Long Island & he managed me with the group ANGEL, who I've been in for the last 7 or 8 years now. Lita signed up with him to start her comeback tour. I don't want to call it a comeback tour.

AJ: That's fair. It is.

MICHAEL: I mean, she wanted to do a new album & do a tour & get out after 15 years or something like that. She asked Danny to hold auditions in Farmingdale. He called me up & said I'd had the gig, take the red eye & go. I get out there & it's an audition. He didn't tell me that. I thought I'd gotten the gig. I get there & lo & behold Billy Squier. I was in diapers when this guy did world tours. So, I gave it my best shot. I went in there & they gave me a chair, like a cushion seat. I looked at that & thought "Really? I'm going to sit down & perform while I'm playing with Lita f-ing Ford?" I put the chair aside & I told the monitor guy "If that other keyboard player uses this chair, I got the gig." I got to go first. After I played everything was cool & I took the chair & moved it back in front of the keyboard. Sure enough, the guy came in & sat down. I was out in the parking lot & they called me back in. Lita was interested & I did a few more rounds of "Kiss Me Deadly" & stuff & she hired me.

AJ: Excellent. I think comeback is fair. I remember growing up seeing her on MTV & now she's returned with Winter Wonderland. You mentioned to me that there's actually another record in the works, is that right?

MICHAEL: Correct. She's in the middle of putting a new record together that she would like to get out as soon as possible. I don't know the time frame. We're excited to have guitarist Gary Hoey in the band working on the album with her. It sounds like he's doing some producing & writing. They're a great team & they're pumping out some great music. I'm to go back to New Hampshire next month & lay down the actual key parts.

AJ: Excellent.

MICHAEL: Yeah, we're excited. Are you going to mention LIZZY BORDEN or Chris Sanders or any of that stuff? I thought you were going to ask me first.

AJ: I was & I wasn't.

MICHAEL: That's cool. I don't want to open it up.

AJ: You have talked about those things with other people, so I was going with the flow. But, if there's something you would like to say I would love to, because those are all great bands.

MICHAEL: Okay. I appreciate that. I want to say I recently got wind of you & your love for Lizzy Borden.

AJ: I love the guy's music.

MICHAEL: Right. That's the vibe I got & you did the interview [former LIZZY BORDEN guitarist] Chris Sanders. I just want to talk about him for a second & LIZZY BORDEN.

AJ: I would love to. Please do.

MICHAEL: He's a great guy & he's a got great band. He did make a contact to me in the past to do some work with him. I was in & out with shows & it just didn't come together. But, we've worked together before. Not in LIZZY BORDEN. As you know I did all the keyboards on almost every song on Appointment With Death. That was with [guitarist] Ira Black at that time. I've never performed live with Lizzy, just the studio album & hopefully on the new one, too. But, Chris & I have gotten together. We did like an acoustic jam with Terry Elous from XYZ. I'd always wanted to work with Chris, just so much talent. Then when he did that Randy Rhoads memorial. He got to play for Delores. That was a couple years ago out here. You know Randy was buried an hour from where I'm at. Chris got to play for that occasion & I just knew he was talented. I listened to the interview that you did with him. I was learning about you. Nothing particular, but I just wanted to mention that, because you & I had a little connection with that. The other connection that you & I had was when, you remember, I e-mailed you & you had just played ... you already talked about this.

AJ: I mentioned that at the beginning. We had these little psychic moments.

MICHAEL: Yeah, we had psychic moments that brought us together.

AJ: I've never had that. Some of the guests on this show have been really close friends. Some, like yourself, I've only spoken to on e-mail. Some I've never spoken to at all until we were actually on the air. But, it was so funny with you. I literally had picked up this Lita Ford album & I'm reading an e-mail from the guy in her band. It was too uncanny, you know. It was really funny. Also, I work at this record store & I replaced Sal Maida who played bass on most of the final RUNAWAYS album, uncredited, with Lita.

MICHAEL: I forgot about that. You e-mailed a story for me. That was cool.

AJ: The RUNAWAYS were all girls, but there's 2 guys who uncredited played bass with them. The first album featured the bass player from BLONDIE & the very last featured Sal who now tours with CRACKER & he replaced John Wetton in in ROXY MUSIC. He went on the road & I took over his day at the record store. But, of all the guys to know. That was the other connection you & I had.

MICHAEL: We should pick lottery numbers before we get off the line.

AJ: I don't know about that.

MICHAEL: You pick the first 3, I pick the last 3. Yeah, this was cool. That was great the way it all went down. I didn't have anything particular mentioning this.

AJ: No, no, I just go with it & Lizzy hadn't come up. Also, I've listened to other interviews you've done. I try not to ask the questions to my guests they've been asked one million & one times.

MICHAEL: Sure. I've had to think a bit on this conversation. That's good.

AJ: That's what I want. I want to give you a gift & my gift is the best value of your time. You're taking a lot of your time to create music & entertain people, so I feel as a listener & a show host, I owe you that by taking my time out & doing the best I can for you.

MICHAEL: That's beautiful. I appreciate that. For sure.

AJ: Michael, other than Lita Ford, is there anything on the horizon that people can look for from you, whether it's albums or other tours or activities?

MICHAEL: I've played everything I can play. I don't have anymore notes left. Neil Diamond for you next.

AJ: You know any Boz Skaggs?

MICHAEL: I'm just in the middle of the Lita tour for the summer right now. There's MISSING PERSONS shows coming up & I'm trying to juggle both right now, which I have been for a few years. I'm just trying to stay busy & just want to just bring light to what I do & the position that I'm in regarding rock keyboards & giving the keyboards a little more space on stage. You know, turn them up a little bit, give them a little more love, water them a little bit. Buy them a little Hello Kitty snowglobe or something & they'll be happy. What do I want to plug in? Donate to your local animal shelter. They need help. The one you've been driving by your whole life just stop in & give them 15 bucks. You know it'll feed a dog for a week. My roommate Leah Burnstein out in Vegas she's a great rock photographer & takes most of my pictures. She's turned me on to the No Kill Shelter Home in Vegas & we have 4 ferrets that we adopted, 2 cats. We released one turtle & got another turtle. We're all trying to do our part. If we've got room let's let them in for a little bit. That means a lot to me & if anyone sees it that way too I'm appreciative for it.

AJ: Michael, we're at the end of our time together. I appreciate you chatting & hanging with me tonight. It means a lot.

MICHAEL: Thank you so much for everything.

"This Is About Walking The Dog" An Interview With ZAK STEVENS of SAVATAGE, CIRCLE II CIRCLE (Interview 2 of 2)

2015-02-15T12:59:00.003-08:00

Thanksgiving 2011 (phone)

Vocalist Zak Stevens first came to national attention when he become the new frontman for the prog-metal band Savatage, following the departure of founder/keyboardist/songwriter Jon Oliva in the wake of the death of his guitar playing brother Criss. Zak had previously been playing in Wicked Witch, who would change their name to Machines Of Grace & release one studio album in 2009. MOG's drummer was Jeff Plate who would follow Stevens into Savatage & stay with the band through their morph into Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Stevens would perform on numerous tours & 4 studio albums before moving on. Savatage released one more album before calling it a day, much to fans dismay even now 14 years later. In 2002 Stevens formed Circle II Circle. CIIC's debut album featured Oliva & Chris Caffery from Savatage & was meant only as a one-off but found itself moving into longevity as Zak's solo band. In an ironic twist of fate the original line-up of CIIC left Stevens for Oliva's solo band creating Jon Oliva's Pain. But, this mutiny would end up putting CIIC firmly into Steven's hand as his own entity away from the shadow & influence of Savatage except as he wished to bring in the old music. In 2013 CIIC released their sixth album Seasons Will Fall, 3 years after their last release & featuring a brand new line-up except keyboardist/bassist Mitch Stewart.

With about 100 episodes over nearly 2 years I presented a (bi-)weekly podcast, 'The World Of Trans-Siberian Orchestra', looking at nearly everything related to TSO & Savatage. One of the earlier episodes featured a look at the music/career of Zak. He called in & we spent 20 minutes doing a delightful impromptu live interview, which can be read on this blog. During the interview he mentioned new music, so a few months later we talked again for a follow-up. That pre-recorded interview, shared here, was broadcast as part of the episode focusing on Circle II Circle. In some ways this interview is now more historical than relevant news, as it looks at what went into the making of the then forthcoming but now released CIIC album Seasons Will Fall. Here he talks about getting the contract from the new label, but Zak went with a different label in the end. While there also was some line-up changes not predicted in this interview. But, just the same, Zak turns in a personable & interesting interview. I thoroughly enjoyed my 2 conversations with Zak & it's ashame we've not had a reason to talk more or that he's been able to tour up in New England.

* * * *

AJ: Back again. It's been quite a few months since you & I last touched base, so maybe you could give me a lowdown with what's new or what's going on with CIRCLE II CIRCLE or anything else you've got going on?

ZAK: We are writing the new album right now. We've done a good bit of it already. Basic tracks are going down. We're going to have 12 songs. The next album will be called Seasons Will Fall, which is the title track. One of the first songs that we wrote on the album. We have a new record label & they really liked the title. We have no clue what it means, though. We've got some good art coming along. It reminds me of the original BLACK SABBATH album cover of the original BLACK SABBATH Black Sabbath album with the house & really dark. I've kinda got something like that. It doesn't look really like that, but it reminds me subliminally of that. That's coming along, so I like that.

AJ: Good, good.

ZAK: We've got the artist still working on final drafts for that. So, Seasons Will Fall is the title. We probably will be releasing it probably summer. We're just now waiting on the contract to come from the new label. So, at this time I'm going to say ... until I sign that, I'm not going to give away the name ...

AJ: That's fine.

ZAK: But, I'll say we're under negotiations right now & we've got a fantastic new label coming that you'll see. I don't really want to say anything until I get the actual contract.

AJ: I understand how that goes, Zak. Can I ask ... what spurred the move to the new label?

ZAK: Yeah, we kinda just outgrew the last label. You know, AFM Records they're kinda a small label over there in Germany. We did 5 albums with them & we grew with them. You know you grow with them, you grow with them & then all of a sudden you find that we kinda outgrew that situation.

AJ: That's good, actually, right?

ZAK: It is good.

AJ: I mean, that's essentially what you want.

ZAK: Yes, exactly. They were good for Europe, but when you move & you want some strong things to happen all over the world ... We go to Brazil all the time. Central America is coming up. We have the USA that we tour quite frequently. So, when it came to some other things, we needed them to be able to commit to those territories. They just don't have the resources. So, we have to say bye-bye & that's okay. It's good for everybody. That way they can concentrate on what they need to for their European bands & we can go into a more of a worldwide situation & be able to get a little more of a confident situation going. So, that's why we had to move along. But, it's all okay, with no cussing & bashing out people. They understand what their resources are & we understand what resources we need.

AJ: Excellent. I wish you a lot of luck with this, Zak, going through the contract signing & the typical headaches that go with that, you know.

ZAK: We are close. Basically, I have it. I'm just waiting on the hard copy to come that I can sign & fax it back. I actually have the Word document. We a little bit past the old scary parts that everybody hates, the business part. It's a little bit further than that, where you're just don't even know if you're going to get a document. Matter of fact, I was looking at the document earlier with my manager & some stuff we found, which is good stuff, how to handle certain pieces of funds.

AJ: Of course.

ZAK: I've been looking at the contract every night, which is a very great thing to be able to be looking at it & to actually dig now in it & figure out what we're going to do with little commitments, you know, here & there. That's good to say, because really a couple weeks ago I couldn't even tell you that I could even look at the document. & that's the way the business is. You hear a lot of stuff & it never comes.

AJ: & then they surprise you with something.

ZAK: Yeah, 'Wait a minute, this is nothing that we talked about.' Actually, it came & it was really really spot-on to what we had talked about & that surprised us, so that's good as well, because that's another problem in the music business. All kind of ridiculous stuff that comes & you didn't discuss any of that.

AJ: That's the way the business goes.

ZAK: Publishing is another whole thing. We've got some interesting things going on with ours & it's kinda neat. I'm going to be wheeling & dealing a little bit with all that, too.

AJ: Let me just ask, Zak, is this an American label?

ZAK: Nope. They're a European label, but it's one that has big accountability to do a lot more things that we needed to get done.

AJ: Why are you going for a European label?

ZAK: Well, you know, we play over there a lot. It's actually with people that I had worked with back in SAVATAGE days. It's some of the people that were with another completely different company. A company C&M Promotions which is still in business over there. Some friends of ours. & one of the guys that worked for the company has gone on & he's the president of the label, the one whose doing this. It was kinda deal with a team with a guy who I used to go to this place ... it's kinda like a NAMM show they have in Germany, kind of a European version of NAMM, & I used to go in the same car with this guy. We'd be headed to POP TOPS to promote SAVATAGE. You know, it's kinda good to get back with somebody like that. That was another reason I wanted to go with them.

AJ: Well, he knows where you've been.

ZAK: A good old friend. They know it. They know everything about where I've come from & where we need to go. Those kinda things matter, too. You know, old relationships that you want to cultivate.

AJ: Excellent, Zak. So, have you started recording any or are you just writing?

ZAK: We have recorded a lot. We're getting lines down on basics. Now I have done a lot of vocal recording myself, but it was mostly a demo kind of thing. We actually performed the title track, "Seasons Will Fall". That was a song that we did in the studio the last time we went to Europe on tour, this past August. We stopped in a studio. "Let's just record it & we'll invite the Vice-President & the Pres on down from the label to see if he likes it." So, he saw us recording it & saw the process & stuff like that & heard it. Then we invited him in & kinda like sat in the chair & turned around & acted like he wasn't looking at anything. So, he turned around & said "I don't like it ... I don't like it, I love it." You know how they love to do that. That's really how we got signed. So, we've done stuff like that, but I don't really consider that keeper keeper because we're on the road. I like the fresh everyday stuff. Those kinds of things, there's about 3 or 4 songs like that, so I'll be going back & re-recording them. The second time you know what you want to improve on that stuff. I haven't done final vocal takes. I'll probably do that next month. I'm plenty early with it. It's not really slated to come out ... I guess I could take a wild guess. August. It comes out in time for the festivals over there, the festivals in Europe. I think that's another reasons for a European label. You think about we go places, European festivals all the time, stuff like WACKEN, big stuff like that. So, we are doing that. You know they wanted to coincide the release with some of those performances.

AJ: Of course.

ZAK: That's cool, But, I think, you still have a 3 month lead time on that, so you can't really rest on your laurels too much. You've got to get it done.

AJ: Everything takes so much time, too. Same band? Same line-up? No changes with the boys?

ZAK: As of right now, that's correct.

AJ: "As of right now." Don't say that, Zak. Don't jinx yourself, man.

ZAK: We touched base with that, though. That's the stuff that the label will actually ... that's the kinda stuff that can change, because the label starts putting in there its 2 cents worth. I've heard inklings. I don't know if it's going to result in any stuff. That's another thing about the business. I have to go through all that next.

AJ: Those outside influences. What's been inspiring Zak Stevens the writer that we might be seeing on the new album?

ZAK: You know, you meet people. I've kinda met some interesting people lately. The way they do things is inspiring. I think that's going to show up a little bit. What I'm learning from people is going to show up. You know I usually write about experiences & stuff like that. Travelling on the road & that's going to still be stuff that's going to show up. Stuff from the past tours in Europe. Went to Brazil & we're going there again for 2 tours in March & September of next year. You know that kinda stuff is going to show up. I guess I'm out there just sort of looking for a lot of inspirations & I think some of that definitely will go into the lyrics. "Seasons Will Fall" I joke & say "what does that mean?" That title could really be one of many things.

AJ: I know your style, man.

ZAK: "This is about walking the dog." Well, it may not be that solid. But, you know what that really is about? You may be in a certain place in life. You know, you may be dreaming about doing different things. You may be in a certain situation. But, everything changes, whether you want it to or not. & even if you're in a super situation things could change. But, if you are not in the situation you want to be in change will occur also. So, seasons will always change & therefore a situation does not always have to remain the same. So, that's kinda where I was coming from on that one. Or, just when you think it will never change or you're stuck in a rut, you know, change really comes at the weirdest times, the surprising times. So, that's kinda where that one comes from. & we've got one called "Dreams That Never Die." Which is a crazy song that has probably a little bit of that, what I call the ... you know it's got all the different melody lines that repeat & there's different things. We talk about counterpoint vocals. We actually have that a little bit going on again on the album.

AJ: Counterpoint vocals. That sounds like a SAVATAGE thing.

ZAK: Yes, it is. It was something I was very involved with, with Paul O'Neill [producer of SAVATAGE], in coming up with, things like that & making it really happen. So, I still enjoy doing it from time to time. That one's going to have a little bit of that on there. "Dreams That Never Die" is kinda about, hey, no matter what you're doing, the dreams you had really won't die, they just won't go away. & if it's something you really wanted that you never tried, that's not going to go away, folks, you're going to have to go ahead & come face to face with it at some point. & you've got a decision to make. Do you want to try to make some of that happen for yourself or do you want to just be okay with not doing it. On the other hand, you might have this traumatic thing happen in life & it may cause you dreams, that you keep dreaming about that horrible thing. Hopefully that won't happen, but on the other token, sometimes people want that dream to die. Yet, that might never die either. So, it's very strange. I guess I'm saying I'm going to be very strange. You know, that's one of the titles that kinda gets throw in there about dreams you might have personally or goals that you might have. What are you going to do about that kinda thing? These are my personal things, like the divorce, that I'm just now kinda healing after & I feel like things are getting a little bit back to normal. That takes awhile. Not to put too much personal stuff out there, but from my standpoint I think it could be very positive in some aspects, because I'm coming around & kinda getting back to normal, you know, or getting into this, getting into the new sides & new groove here. You know, out from the darkness & into the light kinda thing. I think some of that might show up. That should definitly show up on the new record.

AJ: I was thinking, but didn't want to ask, what have you been going through, if these are the seasons of the album.

ZAK: That's a good part of it. But, that's a good one. Because, I think there was a time in writing the other ones you could see a lot of darkness. A lot of dark stuff going on. 'God, what's going on with this guy here?' I think I was reflecting some of what was going on before that, too. I'm just happy to be coming out the other side &, you know, having the light more so than the other side.

AJ: I know what you mean.

ZAK: I don't try to hide too much like that. I think you have to be honest with yourself & say what's in your heart at the time. That's the stuff that's gonna be what people are going to believe. So that stuff is the easier.

AJ: I tell people that some of the best lyrics are the ones that are hard & angry or hateful or they're hurting lyrics, because it's like you can't fake that emotion. You can't fake pain. But, it's kinda easy to write a tie a yellow ribbon type song. My feeling is that hardcore feelings come across much more real & vivid then writing a happy song.

ZAK: That's true. & even though I'm enjoying coming out of some of that, I think that honesty is a big part of that. Be honest about what you're feeling. It might be going more towards tie a yellow ribbon more than like crap ...

AJ: You know what I mean.

ZAK: I know. Exactly. But, I think the honest approach you can still get behind that. & when you sing then the believability is there. I mean, that's a big part of it. I mean, that's something we always work from for my whole career, even with SAVATAGE. That was one of the things that Paul O'Neill would say: "I don't believe you. I don't believe it. It's time to do that one again." It's all about believability.

AJ: I'm going to throw a big question out here, as you've kinda been bouncing around with something, Zak. I'm sure there's others who might want to know. 6 CIRCLE II CIRCLE albums, some work with MACHINES OF GRACE, obviously SAVATAGE, but when you look back at that first CIRCLE II CIRCLE album with Jon Oliva of SAVATAGE, what's your thoughts? How do you look back on this whole experience or this adventure?

ZAK: On CIRCLE II CIRCLE?

AJ: Where it's come from & where it is now.

ZAK: It's been crazy. It's gone everywhere a band can go. If you want to say: "Let's go on the craziest ride possible." On the first album it started out with Jon & Chris Caffery [guitarist of SAVATAGE]. We had this outlet where we could write songs together, because that was one of the things we really wanted to do that we discussed all the time when we were in SAVATAGE. You know Paul [O'Neill] & Jon wrote most of the stuff at that time. So, I said, "We've got this outlet & it's going to be my band, CIRCLE II CIRCLE, & cool!" We thought it was going to be the one & only, one & done. & I would just be doing whatever, singing with TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA or if they made more SAVATAGE albums or whatever. But, it kept going. You know it goes through a definite morphing of the different things. It has different line-ups, you know, & everything you could possible have happen in a band. But, you know one good thing from then to now is it's been a good learning experience for me as far as being a producer of sorts & having to grow up in that area. Songwriting. I've gotten better at it. I wasn't the greatest in the world. A lot of singers will tell you we don't like to write lyrics, but we complain & cry. But, you know, that's really been what its been to me. It's been that great way to put some of the practice you wanted to work on anyways as an artist & grow as an artist. I like where I've come from. Now going into number 6 it really feels like some of the stuff is coming together now. It really feels like everything I might have struggled with, tried to get better at & it took a few albums with this thing or 4 albums with the other thing. Now it's all kinda feeling like its in a nice little melting pot & I can just pull the ingredients out when I need it. There's still a big learning process. I think still, even going into number 6, I'm still learning how to try to be better at what I would leave out & what I would put in. It's different from album to album. But, it's just been a good ... if anything it keeps my vocal chops up. I try to stretch myself as much as I can & try to keep getting better & keep learning, especially on the songwriting aspect. I think the voice has always been there for me, so I didn't have to work too awfully hard on it. Try not to rest on that & just try to improve on the other areas that didn't come easy.

AJ: That's good, that's good.

ZAK: So, that's like the biggest thing for me, just trying to get it right, different things & big things. & now we've got the label situation. That stuff is good for the bigger things we've been wanting & now we have the back up. The pressures on more than ever. The pressure is on more than ever right now, so the pressure factor has increased with every album. You would think it would let off at some point.

AJ: Nope.

ZAK: You try to go to bigger things, but then you've automatically put more pressure on. I never ran away from the pressure, so hopefully we'll rise to that this time, too.

AJ: Excellent, man. Do you have anything else in the pot or are you just focusing on the new CIRCLE II CIRCLE?

ZAK: Pretty much just CIRCLE II CIRCLE right now. That's pretty much it. Just trying to make a real doozy right here. We've got really great stuff I'm very happy with. We've pretty much laid out the way it's going to look. We wrote about 16 or 17 songs. Now I can actually envision this thing, you know how it's going to be laid out. Looking at it, I don't have titles for everything yet. Still writing a lot of lyrics, but I'm really liking the way that it's coming out & it's a little bit of everything. It's really a little bit of every album so far. & I like that. It's going to equal pieces of 1 through 5. It even goes back to Watching In Silence. We've definitely got some Watching In Silence stuff.

AJ: Every album has been a little different.

ZAK: Yeah, every album has been pretty different. But, I think this is the time to encapsulate what we began & I actually told the guys I want a little bit of everything, plus something different. So we tried to get a little bit of everything, plus the usual something different. That's a tall order. So, we've been working our butts off to get that going in the next couple of months. I just hit up Night Castle Management [of TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA] for a few things. My daughters have to go. My youngest has never seen TSO. It was time this year to go ahead & get little Zoe into the mix with her big sister who called me tonight & said "Let me know when that e-mail comes through & we'll take Zoe." So, I said I'd check back in with her.

AJ: You'll see the guys, so that's good.

ZAK: So, I have to inform her I did sign off the e-mail for my usual set of favors.

AJ: Of course. I gotta ask you one question more, Zak, & that's the question that everybody at some point ... no, let me put it like this ... it's the question that Jon Oliva hates. Do you know the question? Is there anything going to happen, that you know of, in any way shape or form anytime in the future related to SAVATAGE?

ZAK: Not that I know of. But, they know my stance on that. I'm definitely in. They know that & that's good for them to know. & I like to look at the SAVATAGE website & see that I'm still the man on there!

AJ: That's right.

ZAK: They know my situation on that. But, I don't know of anything, to be honest with you, that's because Jon hates the question.

AJ: I know.

ZAK: He doesn't give any information.

AJ: If you go on youtube & you'll find interviews where he goes "Alright, I'll answer any question, except for about the future of SAVATAGE. So, it's just going to be a review night."

ZAK: Right.

AJ: You know Atlantic Records just reissued & remastered Dead Winter Dead & Edge Of Thorns.

ZAK: Right. That's why I'm asked a lot more questions now, plus they had that release [greatest hits] Still The Orchestra Plays. They had the Live In Japan; DVD in it. I got a lot more questions after that came out. & now with the re-release of those 2 & the remastering of all that stuff, yeah, I've been getting a lot more. & I just say the truth is I don't know of anything & I haven't heard. If something brews up it would be real neat & a lot of people love it. I talk to [Chris] Caffery all the time. We're big fans of it, but you know, we got to wait for the right time.

AJ: That's been the answer for the last decade.

ZAK: We don't know anything.

AJ: I'll tell you, Zak, if I was in your court, there's 2 things I would do. I would put out product. I would love to see a live album from the later years. I love seeing you guys performing, you & Alex [Skolnick] or Al [Pitrelli], but would like to see me. & I personally don't like Still The Orchestra Plays. & there's another greatest hits out there, too. I don't think you guys have a definitive greatest hits album, because it either ignores the first albums or it was made before your final album Poets & Madmen & neither of them in include "Sarajevo/Christmas Eve 12/24", which obviously is the big song. I think you guys deserve a box set.

ZAK: Wow, that'd be great. I'd love to see that. There might be a time where some of this might come to fruition.

AJ: You need to market the thing & then you go on tour.

ZAK: Exactly. That's not really problem now, but marketing that's going on with TSO. I hope so, man, that would be so much fun. It just takes time. Everybody is either playing in TSO or they're doing something. Everybody is still doing great. Before we get too old it would be great to do.

AJ: You're not that old, man, come on.

ZAK: I know. You know what I'm saying. You can't wait too long.

AJ: I know what you're saying. You know who I just got an e-mail from? Though, he's before your time. [Original SAVATAGE bassist] Keith Collins.

ZAK: Cool.

AJ: He heard one of my shows & sent me an e-mail with "AVATAR, SAVATAGE, Keith Collins" in the subject & I went shit. So, you never know.

ZAK: That guy is like an icon in Tampa.

AJ: Really? I'm really looking forward to reading what he has to say.

ZAK: I've only met him like one time & that was at a party, so I would probably need a more formal ... tell him I said hello.

AJ: I will, absolutely, now that you've told me you've talked to him. I'm looking forward to talking to him.

ZAK: Yeah, we could do some reunion type stuff. Not like full blown SAVATAGE. But, some of the bands before. Not like AVATAR, which is the same band.

AJ: Basically.

ZAK: Anything that he was in before. I mean, I've seen a lot of actions to put together something, whoever they can get to do some reunions of the bands that might have been around before the guys joined SAVATAGE. I probably wouldn't be a part of that.

AJ: You came later.

ZAK: I was with MACHINES OF GRACE. So that might be some of the brouhaha you might be hearing.

AJ: I was just really stoked to hear from him. I want to know, have you ever met Damond Jiniya, your successor?

ZAK: We've talked a few times. He plays in a band here in Tampa.

AJ: RETRIBUTION.

ZAK: That's right. We went out & saw those guys one night & I talked to him that night Iw as there. It's was great. Yeah, I've talked to him at least 4 or 5 times.

AJ: I didn't know, because I know you left before Poets & Madmen was finished & then he joined for the tour later. Listen, Zak, I'm going to let you go. I've kept you plenty tonight. I appreciate talking with you.

ZAK: Thanks, man.

AJ: & I need to let you know I'm doing a live interview on my show with a woman whose an erotic novelist & she wrote a short story using TSO as the backdrop.

ZAK: Oh, goodness.

AJ: I found it online & went oh shit. This woman dresses up as Santa Clause & it gets pretty raunchy.

ZAK: Alright.

AJ: It's so obscure & my goal is to dig into things folks don't know. But, she does not do interviews, because she's very shy. So, I have to thank you for this, because she heard our previous interview & she thought it was so great & wrote me "Aaron, I would love to talk to you."

ZAK: Alright!

AJ: So, I kinda gotta thank you, Zak, for making this future interview with her. I think it might shock people, though not in the way they expect. Something different, you know.

ZAK: You know, if I get lucky, in her story I can have a bit part. I think that would pretty much be the icing on the cake.

AJ: In this story she wrote there was icing on the cake.

ZAK: Oh no! You know, as a back-up vocalist we got to have a bit part.

AJ: Alright, we'll see! But, thanks for the news that I can share with everyone.

ZAK: Thanks so much for helping me get it out there. Appreciate it as always.

"Quotes From Ted Nugent, I Got Scared" An Interview With ALISON TAYLOR & RODNEY MILES

2015-02-02T14:07:00.002-08:00

Jan 2015 (e-mail)

In time for Christmas 2014 the book 365 Surprising & Inspirational Rock Star Quotes hit the shelves co-authored by Rodney Miles & Alison Taylor. They began working together after meeting via the freelancing site elance. Their mutual love of music soon came to the fore & a year later they had a new book of quotes covering over 200 musicians, young & old, famous & more obscure. The book stands out as unique for being written by fans not rock journalists ... Alison even confesses to being such a connoisseur of music that she still makes mixtapes & has been to 200 to 300 concerts. Their collaborative efforts have also led to their own publishing house, Bimini Books focusing on lifestyle titles. For the record, it started when Rodney was looking for a quote from Gene Simmons. He's known for his outrageous quotes ... now he can be known for inspiring a book. Rodney is the author of over 50 works of fiction & non-fiction as a ghostwriter, & alongside Bimini Books is the founder of Maven Publishing, a Florida-based ghostwriting & self-publishing assistance firm.

I was contacted by Rodney to do a review of his new book. He didn't know me, but had seen some of my writings. I said I'd be happy to, but would he do an interview with me? What I got back was an interview with his co-author Alison with some input by Rodney. This is the first time I've interviewed a music author. Non-musicians never get enough of the spotlight. In communicating with them the mutual appreciation for each other's respective work became evident & a shared loved of music, as I'm also a writer & music fan. Though, I should also confess that a few years ago I had an idea for a book of music quotes, but life changes meant I never pursued it. In a vicarious way it's interesting to see what a project like that would have looked like had I pursued it. Though, for those who know me I would have put less quotes in by Kiss & more by Al Pitrelli, considering my music collection consists of 1 Kiss album & over 100 Pitrelli albums ... but, you can't have everything.

* * * * *

AJ: How did the book get started?

ALISON: It was actually Rodney’s idea. We were still getting to know each other a little bit, & he asked me something generic like, “Do you like music?” I remember saying, “Yes! It’s one of 2 things I’m really passionate about.” His next comment was about wanting to write a book comprised of quotes from musicians & I was instantly sold. I think I started looking for quotes that night.

AJ: What was your approach to searching for quotes? Did you just grab books or magazines randomly off the shelf or scour the internet? Was there a systematic approach to searching?

ALISON: Fortunately, I’ve read a lot of music biographies, & I used to collect music magazines, so I already had some vague sense of some of the cool tidbits that might be out there. It also helped that Rodney had some specific people (lookin’ at you, Gene Simmons) that he wanted to include, so that helped me narrow down the search, especially at the beginning. I took to the internet first, & my strategy was to find everything I could from there & branch out if I had to. Turns out, I didn’t have to. The internet is such an incredible resource. I am the one who was initially looking for quotes. It wasn't until I'd amassed probably upwards of 100 that I even showed them to Rodney. At that point, we realized we really had something, & began sending quotes back & forth to each other. Once we hit about 250 between the 2 of us, the book took on a life of its own.

AJ: How did you choose what musicians would be featured? Or, was it random based on what you came across? Did you start with your favorite musicians & move out from there?

ALISON: I basically started with my & Rodney’s personal favorites, & then thought about people who A) I knew the general public would want to hear from, & B) I knew had said some cool things. Frank Zappa is a great example of this. I like Zappa a lot, but he doesn’t always come to mind when I list my favorite artists. That said, I knew he’d said a bunch of thought-provoking things in his life & I wanted to make sure to include as much as I could. At the same time, there were some surprises. I love Les Claypool & his infinite weirdness. I figured I’d find a ton of quirky quotes that offered some insight into his world perspective. I couldn’t find anything from him (sorry Les!). If we do a follow-up, he’s near the top of the list of 'people I need to research a little deeper.'

AJ: The book is titled as rock stars, but you have far more than rockers, defining the term 'rock star' quite loosely. You include such non-rock folks as Beyonce, Dylan, Baez, Bob Marley, Clapton, Justin Timberlake, numerous R&B & jazz musicians. Why include folks beyond strictly rock musicians & was this the plan? Or, was the breadth always the plan & the title chosen as a matter of convenience?

ALISON: We started out with just rock musicians, but as time went on, we saw the value in interpreting the term 'rock star' as anyone who has made a huge splash in the music world. Of course, someone like Beyoncé or Michael Jackson is not a rock musician, but once we got going with the project, it felt a little silly to leave someone like that out.

AJ: Did you have any requirements when looking for quotes? Like they had to have a certain feeling or insight? For example, some of your quotes are very band specific, but others are very open. Such as Don Henley: “The EAGLES ended on a rather abrupt note, although in retrospect I realize now that it had been ending for quite some time.” versus the more universal “Selling 8 million copies of your first album will mess you up.”

ALISON: We were looking for information that was interesting & potentially unexpected. If it also happened to be repeatable, that was a bonus. So in your example with Don Henley, I was interested in a little bit of insight to the breakup of the EAGLES, because it was such a dramatic thing when it happened. It’s what made the Hell Freezes Over Tour such a big deal. Everyone has their own opinion of why bands break up, based on what the media chooses to report, but hearing from the horse’s mouth that it was a slow fallout rather than one specific thing — I thought that was an interesting bit. Even his more general comment about selling 8 million records offered a window into the kinds of ego & personality struggles that can plague a popular band. We wanted to offer up something new that people may have never heard before. That John Bonham got nervous before every show? Ivan Moody [of FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH], too? & that Roger Daltrey hates his voice? That John Fogerty claims to have written many more terrible songs than good ones? I thought these little pieces might shed some light on the people behind the music.

AJ: Did you ever find yourself overwhelmed with quotes from different artists & forced to shrink the list to the best of? For example, you open with Ace Frehley whose done hundreds of interviews but you only have 2 lines from him. Is there a list of unused Ace thoughts?

ALISON: The short answer is yes. There were some artists where we just found an unbelievable wealth of great quotes & had to pick & choose a little bit. There absolutely is a list of unused thoughts that will be there for us when we put out volume 2.

AJ: Most of the included musicians get 1 to 3 quotes, but Zappa runs away with the prize of 7 & coming behind him Keith Richards, then Paul Stanley, Marilyn Manson & John Lennon. Do these folks have something special about them that you couldn't let go with just a quote or 2 as like everyone else?

ALISON: This was more by accident than by design — it was more about what they said than the people themselves. It just so happened that we found more quotes from these particular people that fit the tone we were looking for. It probably also means that volume 2 will be much less Zappa-heavy.

AJ: In your research did you run into any surprises or quotes you wouldn't expect from someone?

ALISON: I think Marilyn Manson’s levelheadedness is surprising to anyone who only knows his music & has never heard him speak. For me personally, though, the ones that surprised me the most were the ones who spoke of the actual work involved in making music. I sometimes forget that rock stars are more than just famous people with big, flashy personalities. They’re musicians, & making music is difficult. Michael Schenker, Slash, Terry Kath [of CHICAGO], Eddie Van Halen, Gavin Rossdale [of BUSH] — all of them spoke in some way about practicing & practicing some more. Maybe they were born with some natural talent or a proclivity for music, but they also worked very hard to get where they are. I use those quotes as inspiration when I hit low points in my own journey of learning to play the guitar.

AJ: Was there any quotes or musicians you didn't want to include as they were too controversial?

ALISON: When I saw that Rodney had sent me some quotes from Ted Nugent, I got scared. To my surprise, they were very tame, & actually right in line with what we were doing. We did actively avoid harsh curse words. We wanted the book to be relatively family-friendly. But, we didn’t exclude any people because of the potential of controversy.

AJ: Did you run into any legal problems with citations or was this not a concern?

ALISON: Not yet! But our understanding is that short quotations from public figures are public domain, although we are NOT IP attorneys, of course, we’re writers. We are fine if any of those listed would like their quotes removed, but this is hard to imagine.

AJ: As for the bigger picture, what's your writing background/resume, Rodney?

RODNEY: My hopes of being a writer were squashed by a college professor so many years ago. Poor me, right? So I went about life & always found myself writing: a regular column for a local newspaper as a real estate broker, & so on & so on. My dad pushed me a few years ago, when I was in-between jobs to check out elance & wham! A year later I had a handful of active clients & a full-fledged writing department humming along with about 15 writers, editors & a cover designer. I learned all the skills of small publishing along the way. It’s been friggin’ awesome & I am the most grateful guy in the world. Alison & I really enjoy co-authoring fun books like this, & we hope to create transformative works that add value & insight even with a book like this one. We met as independent freelance ghostwriters & we’ve been involved in literally hundreds of them, primarily for just a handful of clients with lots of books to produce. We have recently launched our own lifestyle-oriented publishing house, Bimini Books, as well as our own endeavors in ghostwriting, fiction, & non-fiction as well. We’re pretty busy!

AJ: What is your writing background/resume, Alison?

ALISON: I’ve been writing obsessively ever since I knew how & originally wanted to be a journalist. I was heavily inspired by my journalism teacher in high school & envisioned myself becoming the next [rock journalist] Ben Fong-Torres or someone like that. Instead, I tried to do something more practical with my life, but I never let go of the dream of writing for a living. The universe was apparently on my side, because in 2012, I got really sick & had to leave my job. With all this sudden free time & basically being couch-bound, I finally decided to give freelancing a shot. It took about a month for me to gain my footing with it, but once I got some traction, it was a rapid snowball. I haven’t stopped since. Most of the writing I’ve done thus far has been ghostwriting, but I’ve also done some lifestyle-oriented non-fiction & how-to books. This quote book was such a passion project for me & I can’t wait to do more books like this one. I have a lot to say about music — I had a music blog for a little while, where I posted reviews of albums & shows — & I can’t wait to write more books on the subject.

AJ: You 2 have have done some other collaborative books & are starting a publishing house, can you tell me more in detail on this relationship?

ALISON: We have our hands in several ventures right now & it’s all really exciting. Bimini Books, which published 365 Rock Star Quotes, is a lifestyle publishing imprint that incorporates fun, lighthearted topics (look for an upcoming release about craft beer!), as well as some short fiction. We have a team of authors we work with there & we love helping people learn to develop their ideas into great books that people enjoy reading. Maven Publishing is where our professional sides truly shine. We help business owners & professionals get books published so that they can position themselves as experts in their fields & share with the world what makes their businesses unique. Finally, we are working with a fiction publisher who specializes in novel-length fiction, & through this partnership, we have several authors who will be publishing their work with us this year.

AJ: How did you two meet up, because you write in the introduction you've never met in person but Skype/email from your respective homes of Florida for Rodney & San Francisco for Alison.

ALISON: Wow, that’s true! I forget. It seems like we have. We met on elance, the freelancing site. It's where Rodney & I cut our teeth, learned to research/write very quickly, & developed the art of interacting with clients. We've both had our ups & downs there, but wouldn't trade that experience for anything. Rodney was hiring a ghostwriting team to help him out with the unbelievable amount of work he’d been receiving & the rest is history. I did some ghostwriting projects for him, but the more we talked, the more we realized that we had the same long-term career vision. Becoming partners was really the only logical thing to do! We could have never written or published this book without each other’s help. We feel quite fortunate to have stumbled into this!

"Donald Duck When He Smokes A Lot" An Interview With STEFAN KLEIN of DETHCENTRIK (Interview 1 of 2)

2015-01-20T07:42:00.001-08:00

April 2012 (phone)

Stefan Klein is the frontman of Colorado's Dethcentrik, an avant-garde industrial band with its roots in extreme metal, has a solo career under the name Dod Beverte & runs Dod Incarnate Records. Terrorizer magazine described Dethcentrik's music as "black horrormetal". Formed in 2009 the band has almost become more famous for the criticism it draws than the music itself, which includes having the music banned for offensive content & being placed on a community threat list by one church group. But, in recent years the music has moved far from its metal roots & brought in many new fans, including other musicians who have remixed the Dethcentrik catalog or have invited Stefan to contribute to limited edition compilations of underground music. Accolades have come from members of Skinny Puppy and Marilyn Manson. Dethcentrik has only had a single live performance & has seen frequent line-up changes with only Stefan as the only stable member, if not at times the only member, with his solo outing & the band co-existing partly to share different extremes of the music.

My relationship with Stefan began when I came across one of the Dethcentrik albums online ... & with reviews that described it as having too much distortion, sounding like a garbage disposal & the worst album of the year I couldn't resist listening. Perhaps it wasn't something for a candlelight dinner, but this was far from just another gutteral voiced metal band or even someone fooling around with recording equipment, but there was a real drive evident of someone wanting to push boundaries & not to offend as many critics assume, but instead to discover the limits of sound itself. After reviewing his album Stefan invited me to remix some of his tracks under my musical moniker BLANK FACED PROPHET for his album Why The Guilty Die Old: Remixes Of Dethcentrik, an ongoing collection of guest remixes. Eventually we would create the online only album The Martyr where he provided the foundation & I gave it a new life. Since then we've had a friendship. He's taught me about a new world of music, such as Throbbing Gristle & the lesser known more experimental avenues of Nine Inch Nails, while I have helped push his music, or so I would like to believe, into new directions. I've seen his music grow, numerous albums released, critics go from hostile to interested & a resume that now includes numerous bands he's helped out & numerous musicians remixing his catalog. I interviewed Stefan for my Roman Midnight Music Show. An hour interview was pre-recorded but in a strange Watergate-esque moment, when saving the interview to later edit down for broadcast about 12 minutes was somehow deleted near the end. What makes this spooky is that time included a lengthy discussion of Satanic music in the context of Dethcentrik, which has been labeled Satanic but a quick read of the lyrics will prove otherwise.

* * * *

AJ: You have something you're working on right now, Why The Guilty Die Old: Remixes Of DETHCENTRIK, bringing in some folks you know & some new faces. Can you tell me more about this project?

STEFAN: A friend of mine's band, COLD METAL FUTURE, had actually wanted to remix a couple DETHCENTRIK songs. I don't remember exactly how the conversation started, but I told him he could remix a couple of our songs. They turned out pretty good. I actually kinda liked it. Being that we're an industrial metal band, or I could consider that one of the 100 genres we probably are, I just thought why don't we just get a whole album together where we can help artists who aren't as big as us or get artists on board who are maybe bigger than us & have them take their creative twist to our songs from the current album.

AJ: When you get an e-mail from an artist that you know has a track in it of yours that has been remixed, obviously you don't know what the outcome is going to sound like, but what is going through your mind in that moment?

STEFAN: I'm always excited to hear what comes out. I'm not particularly picky. I think as long as the artist puts effort into it I'm never worried about it being bad. I do wonder how it's going to sound, because we've had some that sound really different from each other. You know the ones you did [under the name BLANK FACED PROPHET] of "Violent Sex Change (The Gas Mask Mix)" & "Realms Yet Unknown (The Enochian Aethyr Mix)", that was probably the most Satanic DETHCENTRIK songs we've ever had, honestly.

AJ: I did tell you I had a guy who ended up playing that stuff at a goth rave. He was like 'This is like a Black Mass, man, I totally got it.' But, when I got them I'm like 'Actually, the guy sent me these 2 tracks, these 2 synthesizer tracks & I'm going what the fuck am I going to do with this?' I felt Black Mass. I just gave you a historical context when I threw in Aleister Crowley chanting. I didn't mean to go even more Satanic than DETHCENTRIK!

STEFAN: Actually, I never would have considered us a Satanic band. I thought that was a really cool twist on it, you know. This is creepy. Yeah, Crowley is an important historical figure & it's not really just Satanism, but more cults just kinda picked up on it.

AJ: I happen to have a big interest in him, more so than his magic or anything. I find him interesting. The audio tracks I used are from 1922. I don't know if a lot of people have heard them, particularly non-Crowley folks. I was just trying to be creative, which is basically what you're trying to do with DETHCENTRIK.

STEFAN: I remember your review of us, it was kinda a mixed bag & I actually liked that, versus it was good or it was bad.

AJ: Honestly, you've had some pretty rough reviews. Is that an understatement? Am I right?

STEFAN: Yeah, for the most part. The good reviews we do get they tend to be more objective from what I've noticed, so in my opinion your review was well written & that's what I'd rather have. I'd rather have a bad review that's better written than someone who just says its sucks repeatedly.

AJ: When I came across your stuff & did the review I actually did a little research first to find out more about your music. I came across all these pretty vicious reviews. I think one compared you to a garbage disposal.

STEFAN: Yeah, I thought that one was kinda funny, actually.

AJ: It's kinda cool to sound like a garbage disposal.

STEFAN: If it's a grindcore band. It depends on the genre is how you take it basically.

AJ: When I'm pulling albums to review I'm looking for something interesting & I'm looking for a band that's being creative. It doesn't even mean I may like them. There's a lot of stuff I review that I don't really care for. I just want creativity & something different & that's certainly what you have. The irony is that since we started talking & since I did the remixes of our music I'm actually hearing things now that I didn't hear when I wrote the review, you know.

STEFAN: That's good. I consider us a band that has to grow on your. I always have.

AJ: Some stuff maybe might not be my thing, but in some of your other songs I can really hear the creativity in it. I hear that you really are trying to push your own boundaries. But, it takes time & I don't always get that when I'm writing a review, you know.

STEFAN: Yeah, yeah.

AJ: But, let's go to something here I have to ask. Terrorizer magazine has described you as "black horror metal." You've already called yourself industrial, but how do you describe DETHCENTRIK?

STEFAN: I actually really like that title. I'm not exactly sure what it is. There was always the black metal influence. When we started one of the ideas was actually taking metalcore, deathcore stuff ... honestly, now I look back & I'm kinda glad we didn't take that direction. But, basically, we kinda started a band in the neighborhood, got a few friends together who live within walking distance of each other & started playing music together. One of my friends was actually into black metal. He actually heard what he thought was more potential for me to be a black metal vocalist. I actually did this demo where I sang "Mary Had A Little Lamb" with black metal vocals. It sounded kinda ... if you think of typical really really raspy, really just crunchy black metal vocals, sounds like it's bad for you to do. If you're doing them right they shouldn't be.

AJ: You're absolutely right.

STEFAN: But, they sound just kinda gargley. I don't know how to explain it. Kinda like Donald Duck when he smokes a lot. If that's possible. I think the vocals have changed over time, too. I was asked by a friend of mine if Dani Filth [of CRADLE OF FILTH] influenced my vocals. He certainly did.

AJ: Not just have the vocals changed, but the band that started in 2009 versus here we are in April 2012 is not the same thing, if there's even still a band beyond you.

STEFAN: Oh, yes, there is. There's one other member. The reason there's a DETHCENTRIK is because I got another band member. He mostly does the guitars. I do keys & vocals. Except on one song I actually have one of my ex's do death vocals on it & I think she's a pretty good vocalist, if she realizes it or not.

AJ: "Rip My Heart Out", right? Lauren McDonald. Folks can actually go on wikipedia & they'll see you on there.

STEFAN: There's some stuff there. I'm pretty sure there's this one guy who went on & he added some things about the criticism or something. "Compared to this" & then added "I can see why" or something like that. I thought it was funny that an editor was sitting there adding belligerence to the band article. We piss off a lot of people here. A lot of bands here just can't stand us.

AJ: Do you do that deliberately?

STEFAN: Somewhat. I think it was more when we started people didn't like us. Then we utilized it more. People certainly didn't like the sound. The criticism when it first comes at you is hard to handle. It's hard to handle repeatedly being told that you suck. After awhile you're like "Maybe we do suck. Maybe we're not that good." What was weird, though, was the more people would say that the more I would run into people who knew us. I'd never even met them before. Or, like a friend told me "Someone at the mall saw the shirt you gave me & they said 'I love that band.'" I didn't even know people besides my close circle of friends had even heard of us before. Now, according to Reverb Nation we're one of the most popular metal bands in the state. We're the most popular metal band in town & in the state we're supposedly ranking up there. I mean, they're an indie charts thing, but still.

AJ: It takes effort to get noticed on that & move up the ranks. You can't just put your stuff out there & suddenly be popular.

STEFAN: We're number, I think, 75 in the nation now. The number 2 in the state.

AJ: You're basically a studio outing, right? These days, anyways?

STEFAN: Yeah. A lot of the solo stuff came after the line-up just collapsed. That live recording of ours ... the drummer was actually a guy who was in another local grindcore band & I just called in a favor. I said "Dude, I know that you're mostly a singer, but I know that you can play drums." I asked him "Would you please play a show for us." He said sure. He's musically open minded enough so I knew he would be up for that & I knew he'd be able to play well enough to help us just get through one show. Because, the line-up was so unstable even before that & after that show the line-up just collapsed. I then did that solo album, some remixes of older DETHCENTRIK songs, just because I didn't know if the band was ever getting back together at that point.

AJ: When you say solo that's under the Dod Beverte name?

STEFAN: That actually has almost split off into its own thing. I would say, at this point, it's a purely industrial project. The first album was kind of an industrial metal album & then by the time I started ... I noticed that one reviewer, actually, liked my solo work better than the new DETHCENTRIK album. So, I thought "I could see taking this somewhere if I want to continue making industrial music. Just cut the metal out completely & just do some industrial stuff on the side & that would be really good." You know, having multiple bands in different genres I don't think is a bad thing.

AJ: You can go in one direction or the other direction. As you said, some people may like one thing, but they may not like the other thing.

STEFAN: There was already some weird stuff that came out under DETHCENTRIK. In a bizarre way I think we established that we're not going to stay the same, so don't get used to the sound, you know.

AJ: You've said repeatedly the band collapsed. From what I read that might be an understatement. You know what I'm referring to. I know you have one former bandmate that was arrested ...

STEFAN: One of the band members actually broke into an ex-roommate's house, because he was basically ... looking back, I don't know if he was the best choice to try to get in the band in the first place. He kinda took too much for granted. He had a roommate who was there for him constantly & the roommate eventually said "You haven't found a job yet. You need to get out. From what I understand, because he thought that some stuff that was there was his, as in he owned it, he was allowed to break in to retrieve it. Turns out that's not legal.

AJ: Really?!

STEFAN: Yeah, I didn't know you can't break into someone else's house to get your own stuff back!

AJ: I gotta look that one up!

STEFAN: I know, the logic behind it! In a weird way, it's not like he was a horrible violent criminal as much as he was just an idiot, you know. God, why did we get that guy? & he didn't even play a show with us. He actually has his own Reverb Nation page &, it's funny, he actually feels the need to mention he is an ex member & then on this youtube live concert he's like "Thank God I quit that band before it even started." I don't know if he's split personality or what, but he's constantly giving consistent different opinions on the band. I think he still has a little bit of soreness that we didn't let him stay in the band after he ended up in jail & started being all weird & stuff.

AJ: & you're like "I didn't even realize I was that important", right?

STEFAN: Yeah. If this guy is taking the time out of his life to rip on us ... he probably has some jealousy. You don't usually feel the need to tell everyone you were in some band if you don't think it's going to help in some way. & he tried to tell us that he was in some band & his roommate & I were joking that he's a good luck charm. Every band gets famous after they kick him out. It's ironic. & I'm trying to remember the other band he was in. I'm actually feeling bad for not remembering. They started gaining some momentum after he left. That must be really frustrating to think "Every band that I'm in kicks me out & away they go." I think it's coincidence, but I can see why that would you sore after awhile. It's basically not fair.

AJ: You can take it personally, but I have a feeling there is some personal things here. But, it may also be coincidence.

STEFAN: When you're in a band personal lives intertwine anyway. I knew his roommate. I think that's part of what influenced me to gig him out. If I hadn't known his roommate I probably had been like "Alright, just get your shit together & come back into the band."

AJ: I had a similar situation some years ago when I joined up with this punk band. The girl couldn't even tune her guitar, not that it stayed in tune, & smoked too much to remember her own lyrics. After a few months it wasn't what I wanted & we didn't really get along, so I left. But, she had to follow it up on her myspace page with "Now that Aaron has gone to Hell & we've gotten rid of all the bad people in our group." There was other stuff like that which appeared later long after the fact. Plus all the photos of us had stars over my face. I felt that I must have had a real impact on this girl if she had to go to all the trouble to comment about me, particularly when I'm not that important, over & over.

STEFAN: Right? ... It's surprising, I didn't realize for the longest time that I influential at all in the scene. It's the internet, you know. It's kinda cool. Here they always try to tell you internet popularity does not equal real life popularity. As much as I've learned anything from people like Rebecca Black or Justin Bieber, you can say all the bad things you want about them, the internet can be a source of fame nowadays.

AJ: & for someone like you whose more a studio thing it definitely creates something you wouldn't have otherwise.

STEFAN: & it certainly gets the music out there more, you know. I'd rather people be able to find it all the way across the globe, instead of having to sign with a label who can start to impose restrictions on you. Or, we don't have the money to distribute CD's across the globe. Giving away a lot of music helps too.

AJ: Do you consider yourself a member of metal community, or the industrial or black metal community, down there? Or, an outsider?

STEFAN: More of an outsider. But, the metal scene here does know who we are. I mean, I was talking to another band recently & they said everyone in the metal scene here knows who I am, whether they like me or not is a different story, you know.

AJ: You're like, that's cool.

STEFAN: I'll take it. One of my friends actually compared our career track to that of Marilyn Manson. Eventually enough people will talk shit that it will gain us more momentum.

AJ: You just mentioned about distributing stuff. You distribute all your stuff through your own label, right, Death Incarnate Records.

STEFAN: I also do use another distribution outlet. They actually allow indie artists & indie labels to distribute through them. They are actually part of the IODA, which is actually owned by Sony Records, so that's why you'll find us in all these stores. But, not CD's. You can only find those on Amazon. As we can, we'll work with other distribution outlets.

AJ: So you have your physical distributor & then you have your digital distributor?

STEFAN: Right. Those are actually separate companies to go through for those.

AJ: Where does the name DETHCENTRIK come from?

STEFAN: I kinda wanted a name being centered around death. It's spelled d-e-t-h, although a lot of people thought we were ripping off DETHKLOK ...

AJ: I thought MEGADETH myself.

STEFAN: Okay. I had this friend who was obsessed with thrash metal & I was kinda saying "Can I join your thrash metal band?" Of course, I asked him after he & his friends had already done this stuff, so I kinda thought I'd recorded a vocal demo, which was more like deathcore vocals at the time with the squeals & the really weird sounds that they do in that genre. Then I kinda realized I'd be better off in a more extreme metal band. I got together with a couple friends, Justin & Michael. We actually live within walking distance of each other. We got together & decided to start a band & I put an ad up online to get some other members.

AJ: We're kinda getting near our time limit for the day, but is there anything more you want to share?

STEFAN: Not really.

AJ: Let me just ask. You've often sent me e-mails about how you added a new track to the remix album. How's that going? Do you have a street date?

STEFAN: I don't even know. There's still artists out there. I give them a few months time frame. Talking to some of these artists who don't have time to do it within a crunch, I don't like to rush art. As a musician I understand there are artist out there that can sit there for months & tweak at their song. There are artists who ... sometimes I can record a song in a couple hours. I've done that. It really depends on what type of a creator you are, you know. I don't think I have the patients to tweak at too much though. I also realize that when I do that I make it worse.

AJ: But, for now, people can go on Last.fm?

STEFAN: & there is a youtube playlist.

AJ: What's available can be heard & the rest of it is a work in progress. Literally.

"Brian Posehn Is More Metal Than All Of Us" An Interview With REV. DR. BILL GRAM of KILLING FOR CHRIST

2015-01-05T09:25:00.002-08:00

Nov 2014 (e-mail)

Killing For Christ is a U.S. based heavy metal band of speed, death & thrash metal musicians who cloak themselves, partly for their own safety, in complete anonymity where even the number of members is a mystery. The only thing that is clear is their message & even that has deeper meanings. The band was formed with the shared disgust of some contemporary Christian behavior & it endeavors to teach the violent, bloody, aggressive lessons of the Bible most modern Christians pretend do not exist shuffling them under the carpet. Their debut The Hordes was released for free on their website in 2014.

I expect others will see this band & either assume Satanism or take the band at their word that they are even more Conservative than the Westboro Church at their worst, which is what I did. Considering the diversity of Christian views in America, if there's socially conscious Christian bands & Jesus Music, why shouldn't the more conservative fundamentalist radical branch of Christianity also get musically represented? Finding the extremes of music fascinating was what brought my interest to Killing For Christ. While, if their spokesman Rev. Dr. Bill Gram wants to end his e-mails with "Spattered in the Fresh Warm Blood of the Infant Messiah" then he has a right to enjoy such a blessing under the Constitution. The catch-22 is that the band has a far greater message & really is not at all the band the Radical Right will want representing them ... quite the opposite. It took me digging through their music & facebook before I realized the joke was on me & all of us. It was a pleasure to communicate with frontman Rev. Dr. Bill Gram, both in jest & seriousness.

* * * *

AJ: I'm not Christian, but for the sake of at least one reader & regardless of my own views, let me ask the obvious 'burning' question right up front ... Do you not believe that KILLING FOR CHRIST is strongly tempting Lucifer & plotting your personal path to Hell & Eternal Damnation?

REV: It sounds like Satan has you by the balls, Aaron. We’ll pray for you & your swollen balls. Lucifer is always working on trying to lead us to Hell. We frequently find ourselves tempted with fresh liquor & not-so-fresh hookers. Sadly, we frequently wake up with hang-overs & the rancid fishy stench of poor choices past. We find ourselves wondering what happened & if Satan managed to trick us into another night of alcohol fueled debauchery. Satan is so tricky. But, we must press on & face that temptation head on. I think the more we drink & debauch, the more immune we’ll become to the temptations. That’s how immunity works, right? I mean, we can sin all we want as long as we just clear the debt with a quick prayer anyway, so what’s the harm really?

AJ: Anton LaVey, founder of the Church Of Satan, wrote that Satanism is not about the horned beast of Christian theology nor even anti-Christian, but the essence of Satanism is about individuality & following your own drummer. Thus, he once wrote the most Satanic band he knew was the BEACH BOYS. For him The BEACH BOYS were particularly Satanist doing a unique style of music with songwriter Brian Wilson being afraid of the beach & ocean. So, given that KILLING FOR CHRIST is very individualistic in its message, I have to ask the other obvious question ... Are you Satanists in disguise, twisting the name of Jesus to fool the gullible Christian?

REV: To suggest we could fool gullible Christians would be like suggesting a murderous cult leader could write a BEACH BOYS song. I mean, that would be absurd! Truthfully, we go the extra mile to keep from twisting any words at all. We use the King James 1611 Bible & Fox News as the two standards of measure for the American Christian-ness of our lyrics, just to keep it fair for those who debate us. We are prepared to cite either source in defense of our violent lyrics & Godly message. Modern Christians are not our target musical audience, but it sure is nice when they try their hand at debating religious points with us.

AJ: Your PR reads "KILLING FOR CHRIST was formed to teach the violent, bloody, aggressive lessons of the Bible most modern Christians pretend do not exist." What types of lessons are you referring to here, for example?

REV: You could toss a Bible in the air & shoot pages at random to find the lessons we are talking about. In fact, hold on ... Okay, I’m back. In a single blast, Jesus has directed my birdshot to the following lessons, to start: Exodus 22:20, Deuteronomy 17:12-13, Mark 6:11, Jude 5:1, 1 John 5:19, Philippians 2:10, Romans 16:17, 2 John 1:10, Hebrews 3:12, Deuteronomy 18:20, Exodus 22:17, Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 20:9, Chronicles 15:12-13, Zechariah 13:3, Numbers 1:48-51, 2 Kings 2:23-24, 2 Samuel 6:3-7, Isaiah 14:21, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Judges 15:14-15, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Jeremiah 48:10 & Joshua 6:20-21. Story after story, cited above, commands followers to kill or torture others for offending God. Many of the stories quote God directly as he commands his followers to kill women & children & show no mercy. There are more violent lessons in the Bible than just these few ... shall I reload a second shot?

AJ: Looking over the messages on your FB page it seems to me that you are pointing out what Christianity should/would look like if modern Christians actually followed the commandments of the Bible, versus picking & choosing the good stuff. Do you believe modern Christianity has perverted the messages of the old teachers like Moses &, of course, Jesus?

REV: Yes, exactly! We believe modern Christians have twisted & contorted Christianity to suit their own needs. They’re more concerned with what looks good on a church sales brochure than the actual lessons taught by the Bible, such as killing, raping, & enslaving the way God commands it. If you ask a modern Christian about any of the violent, bigoted passages of the Bible they will usually become defensive & claim such stories are all part of another time or are in some way not valid. In the same breath they will quote a friendly verse adjacent to the violent verse & claim it is more valid in some way. Why can’t they just accept the Bible as a whole? Is it not worthy of comprehensive acceptance? Ignoring God’s word will cause them to become homosexual & should be punished by death. See Romans 1:24-32. Praise Jesus!

AJ: On your facebook you cite both the Old & New Testament. Some might argue the laws of the Old Testament books don't matter now that we have Jesus who brought a new covenant with his blood. How do you respond to this theological criticism against the validity of your arguments?

REV: This “new covenant” garbage is a common way for Christians to edit the Bible to suit their own needs. The Bible never says to disregard any scripture. In fact, Jesus himself says in multiple books of the Bible that we must follow all of the Old Laws forever & that his existence in no way changes that! Just read Matthew 5:17-19, Luke 16:17, 2 Timothy 3:16. Jesus even rides someone’s ass for not killing a child the way the Old Testament teaches, Mark 7:10, & then backs up Moses’ violent rules for living in John 7:19. So, yeah, the pop-Christians with their “new covenant” nonsense can eat a salty bag of dicks. I think I can find a Jesus quote to support that one too. Where’s my shotgun?

AJ: On your facebook you often talk about Christian oppression. I've been saying for years that Christians are the current scapegoat of society. For centuries it was the Jews. Jews poison the water in Europe, for example, or are taking over the world. Many people still believe that, but I find now Jews & Christians, & often anyone whose religious, are today lumped into the same boat & blamed for the woes of society. For example, prayer meetings before U.S. Senate meetings don't seem to be bringing us back to the Middle Ages, nor doing that much harm other than offending some non-religious people, & people will always get offended, but it's portrayed as an old fashioned abomination by some critics. Is there any solution towards reconciliation between the Christian or religious person with the non-religious outsider to live peacefully together?

REV: I’m confident there is a way to reconcile the differences between the poor, oppressed Christians & non-Christians. The solution is simple. Eliminate one of the 2 groups. Those evil atheists already know this strategy & are trying to breed God out of each generation by teaching kids anti-Christian nonsense like “science” & "medicine”. Education & science lead people to not believe in magic or Jesus. How can they believe in God if they don’t believe in his magic? The Bible saw this coming, & lays out specific instructions on how to deal with apostates & ex-Christians in 2 Chronicles 15:12-13.

AJ: You have on your PR that "hate mail drives their creativity" & your FB reeks of disgust with the message you are sharing. What's the worst or most creative hate mail you've gotten?

REV: Full grown adults sometimes write us with furiously misspelled threats that we take pretty seriously. If we actually ever tour as a group, you can be sure our security will cost more than our light show. What would concern us more than our own safety at a show would be the safety of the crowd. We all agree that if we were killed at a show that would suck, but if a fan got hurt or killed because some stupid Christian decided to send people to “meet Jesus”, we’d never forgive ourselves. Here’s an excerpt from one dissatisfied Christian: “you little shits don't know what your doing your playing with fire your about to get burned!!! See you at your next gig hope you really want to meet the REAL JESUS!!!!” Here’s an excerpt from our response: “Thank you for your generous offer! We are all so excited to finally meet him! I once stood in line at a book signing to meet him, but once the wine ran out, he suddenly had to leave. The guy in line behind me pointed out that he probably wasn’t the real Jesus, but he changed his tune when he saw that the water fountain outside of the book store now only dispenses Banana Red MD 20/20. Praise the real Jesus!”

AJ: On a more serious note ... how did KILLING FOR CHRIST get started?

REV: I am from the filthy south & was raised Southern Baptist. I have also been a heavy metal vocalist for many years. Along the way, I’ve met a lot of great people who share my distaste for modern shitty Christians with their smug asshole attitudes who refuse to accept the entire Bible at face value. A few of us decided to form a band whose mission would be to reflect true Christianity without any of the bullshit. Just pure, unfiltered Jesus-time Bible music. Christians hate it for some reason, but our lyrics come directly from their Good Book, so they usually have trouble finding an argument against us. Hopefully a light bulb will turn on for a few of them. We’ll pray for them.

AJ: Who is in the band?

REV: Nice try, Satan! We aren’t exposing ourselves to you! I rebuke you, foul demon!

AJ: Did KILLING FOR CHRIST start with the band members sharing a disgust of Christian behavior in the U.S. or did this theme come later?

REV: The disgust came first. In this line of work, disgust always comes first.

AJ: KILLING FOR CHRIST is pointing out forgotten things in the Bible ... but at the same time you are pointing out the hypocrisy of it. For example, in a recent facebook post you share of a Christian that hurt a gay man where the gay lived & the Christian went to jail, with the Christian's defense that he was following God. Few, including Christians, would probably say the gay man should be jailed & the Christian rewarded for doing God's work let run free, which is on some level what the Bible actually says. Though, this is exactly what you say on your page with: "Where is the justice in persecuting Christians while rewarding evil? Where is the justice for God?" My first view reading this was that KILLING FOR CHRIST is ultra-Christian & looking for a return of traditional Biblical Christianity. You are actually fighting for the Christ of a lost religion. Then I realized it's all a satire pushed to an extreme level that feels more true than not, which is the best satire & I love satire. It becomes more obvious on your website when you write: "support us so we don’t die of starvation in a cardboard box on the front steps of a mega-church who ignores starving people." Did I get the joke? Looking at your FB I feel like I'm in a minority though.

REV: Some would argue that we cannot be satire because our message is perfectly aligned with the Bible. If it is seen as satire to express precisely what the Christian rule book says, then the entire religion must be a joke. Blasphemy!

AJ: Are there any limits to where you won't take your satire? I see regular comparisons between ancient Christianity & Islam, which are quite thought provoking. Do you fear repercussions from Muslims, or anyone from that matter?

REV: A very wise co-performer once challenged me to never be offended by words. I have lived my life by that code for years. I think so many religious people live by the exact opposite code. If they are offended by my words, it’s their own damned fault. Yes, I fear the physical repercussions will catch up to me or us one day in the form of some dumb religious zealot who is just obeying their holy scripture. They’re not crazy, they’re just religious ... & we should respect religious beliefs, right?

AJ: Your debut album The Hordes dropped in 2014 & is available for free &/or donation on your band website. Tell me about the making of this album.

REV: We worked over the course of a few years on gear & technology brought to the table by those of us who owned it. We produced everything in house, as is becoming common these days, & were overseen by a great engineer who is also a close personal friend of ours. We used standard modern day tricks like kick replacement & tone emulation to get the sounds we wanted without having to re-create very many wheels. We didn’t break any technological ground with what we were doing, but we had a blast doing it & are working on a second album as we speak. Hopefully it will be out before the end of 2015. We’ll see!

AJ: "Put To Death" has a fascinating guitar solo of super high & super fast notes while the rhythm is so melodic it's not as heavy & distorted as I was expecting. I'm reminded more of the riffing PANTERA than the dense MAYHEM. Musically, where do you draw inspiration from?

REV: PANTERA, MAYHEM, Chuck Schuldiner [of DEATH, CONTROL DENIED], DEICIDE, CANNIBAL CORPSE, DEAD KENNEDYS, DRI, ANTHRAX, PESTILIENCE, as well as modern metal like SYLOSIS, REVOCATION & of course Brian Posehn. Brian is the baddest motherfucker on the planet. He is definitely more metal than all of us put together, including you Aaron! Don’t laugh. We’re fucking serious about The Posehn.

AJ: I have to ask about your cover art. Did you get this from some place or was it commissioned?

REV: Our art director worked with a very talented artist named Brian Allen aka Flyland Designs to create the art. I understand he was only struck by lightning twice during the creation. You can count on the next album art being done by him!

"Love Song Dedicated To Amy Pond of Doctor Who" An Interview With SETH MAJKA (Interview 2 of 2)

2014-12-15T18:34:00.001-08:00

Oct 2014 (skype)

Seth Majka is a songwriter, singer & multi-instrumentalist based in Bangor, Maine who has released 5 albums on bandcamp that span hard rock to acoustic pop & is part of the under-30 generation of musicians that give 100% of their passion to creating music & challenging the status quo that says the industry is dying & so is its musical creativity. Seth previously had a solo outing under the name The Casting. This interview was done on the eve of the release of his first acoustic album, Dedication, through Crystal Authentic Recordings.

After stumbling upon Seth's music on bandcamp we talked in August 2014 about his first 4 albums & background. During that interview he shared publicly for the first time that he had a new album in the works. A bit before it's November release we reconnected for a follow-up interview on the new music. I've never done 2 interviews with the same musicians so close in time about 2 different projects. It was quite exciting seeing how the new album had developed from our first talk. This is also a much more casual interview touching on shared interests in the process.

* * * *

AJ: The last time we talked we discussed the fact that you were putting together songs that were written long ago & you're now finishing up. You actually told me you felt they were some of your best stuff & this was also going to be an acoustic album, which you've never done. So, let's start with that idea. I'll even get your quote. You said: “If I wanted to have one piece of recording for people to remember me by it's going to be this EP that's coming out, because some of my best material hasn't been heard yet.” I asked, why if it was so good, why haven't you shared it? You said you felt it's time wasn't ready yet. Do you still feel this way?

SETH: In terms of the timing, the timing couldn't be any better at this point. I feel this is the most opportune moment to put out these 6 songs. I feel the timing is right now, because better things are going to be coming after this. This is just a little step of what's to come.

AJ: What do you mean? You're foreshadowing something.

SETH: Yeah, I'm definitely foreshadowing something. You know me, I'm always working on stuff. Some of these songs are gonna be ... just giving a little bit of an insight of what's to come next, because I'm obviously working on something ... I'm working on the fifth record, which I feel is going to be more like a melodic return of what I used to do, but with an edge. Actually, I'll say that it's going to be kinda like a reinvention of what I've done before. But, some of these songs are either going to be reworked or changed on the new album from their acoustic state to like a full band state. But, the songs that you hear on the new EP Dedication will have some sort of form on the next one & it's just a little preview of what's to come.

AJ: So, this is like the calm before the storm.

SETH: You could say that.

AJ: It's a musical storm, not a disastrous one. So, you're really digging into these songs then? You're really going to give them a full life?

SETH: I feel like, in terms of lyrics & the music standpoint, it's kinda the strongest of all the things I've done. I'm very proud of this album. It's definitely one of those ones where you've got something.

AJ: I'll let you keep some of the future album in mystery, but are you bringing back any old songs from the past or are we looking at something more like a companion piece to this album?

SETH: I can definitely tell you this ... I'll keep most of the fifth album in mystery, like you said ... but, I will say that songs not on this EP will probably not make an appearance on the next one. New material will probably be like the big standpoint of the next one.

AJ: Will you be doing all the instruments or will you be roping in some other folks?

SETH: I'm pretty sure I'll have some people involved with the next project. But, like the other 4 records it'll be mostly me doing guitars, keyboards, vocals. But, I'll probably have someone for drumming, since I can't play drums for the life of me. It'll be like the other 4 albums where it's mostly my own work.

AJ: In terms of others, we had briefly talked about last time the potential of you performing live again & you said you wanted more acoustic songs to do that with. Any more thoughts about doing that? Now you have an album of acoustic songs. I don't know how long the total time is, but now you have a little set list.

SETH: Yeah, definitely. Actually, a few days ago I was going to play at the local pub in downtown Bangor, Maine, but over the weekend a surprise attack cold came into my friggin' ... I was so excited for it. I had 3 songs set to play for open mic night & then the cold came & like crap, man.

AJ: I can hear in your voice. But, you know, you could have just said the songs were dedicated to Bob Dylan.

SETH: Yeah, I'm still recovering.

AJ: Staying with things we talked about before for a moment, the other thing some of your albums share, especially your self titled biographical one, is an overall theme. You said to me that this new album would not have a theme. They are just bits & pieces from different years. But, when I listened to it there seems to be a lot of love, heartbreak & friendship that runs through Dedication. So, it ends up kinda having a theme by default.

SETH: Actually, it's funny that you mention that, because we did talk about that in our interview where these 6 songs had no theme whatsoever, but when I was writing the EP they all somehow weaved into each other as each song is dedicated to somebody or someone or something. Then when I saw that I thought I'd call this Dedication. It's funny that we talked about that, where I said there was no theme & then there just somehow became one.

AJ: It wasn't apparent, such as when I was listening to the first one "Forget Me Never", which is obviously for somebody, but I didn't think about it. Then I hear "Union Of The Universe" & I thought that song is probably about somebody else. They're just songs about people. Then I got to "Colored Princess" & I thought the album sounded like love songs or something, you know. If I remember correctly, you said there was some songs that just had some choruses & this is an album of lyrical bits & pieces, but there's also a lot of new stuff. The music is new. Lyrically, how much of this is old Seth & how much is new Seth?

SETH: A lot of the lyrics all fell into place when I said I was making an acoustic EP a few months ago when I solidified my ideas. But, some of the choruses, like for "The Other Me" or "Union Of The Universe", were written a year ago. But, everything else just fell into place afterwards.

AJ: Your previous albums are so full band, while Dedication is so sparse, for the most part. One guitar & maybe an overdub of a guitar, but that's pretty much it. You've just got vocals & acoustic guitars, for the most part. What was the biggest challenge in composing & creating the music for this new album?

SETH: In actuality it wasn't really that difficult to do, because with the other 4 albums when I was writing those it always started out with writing on acoustic guitar first. When I write music it's always based on acoustic guitar & vocals, because I think ... there's a quote from Dave Grohl of FOO FIGHTERS, he said if songs you write sound great on acoustic guitar, they're going to sound great as a full band. I've taken that to heart. So, in actuality, writing for Dedication was not that difficult, because it's just acoustic guitar & vocals & that's basically what I've done.

AJ: So might we say this album might have a more raw feeling? Because, the composition remains closer to what it originally was verses being changed by the inclusion of other instruments.

SETH: Definitely, for sure. It's probably the most profound passionate piece of music I've done, with the most heart.

AJ: We talked previously about your singing voice & the discovery of the comfort of singing. Did doing just an acoustic album effect your singing any. Suddenly there's no instruments you can hide under. You know what I mean.

SETH: Yeah, for sure. I was just like listening to a lot of acoustic music to get inspiration. I was listening to DASHBOARD CONFESSIONAL. The guy is really talented. He has a lot of these falsetto like sounds to his voice. I just figured for an acoustic EP I wanted this to be more like a quieter ballady kinda of thing where I don't overdue the vocals. I just do very subtle, very light. I don't sing too hard. Apparently some people that know me very well they like it when I do that, because it's more peaceful in terms of how I sing with the falsetto. I feel like it's lighter & less overdone, if that makes sense. You know what I mean, right?

AJ: I know what you mean. You just mentioned people responding to your voice & other things. Is there anything of note that comes to mind in terms of feedback from people who have heard this album?

SETH: I've given the EP away to people who are avid fans of mine. Basically, perception is that people are saying this is the best thing in terms of voice & songwriting. Very strong in terms of those elements. If people are really proud of this EP then that makes me even more proud of this EP. I'm very very excited about it, but that makes me even more excited.

AJ: So you're willing to stand by your comment that if this was the last thing anyone heard from you you're okay with that?

SETH: Yes.

AJ: Do you feel like you've changed any songwriting or composing-wise from this?

SETH: Maybe a little bit. When I was writing for this I just felt not to overdue anything. Just write exactly how it comes to you & how it comes naturally. If a word doesn't go with another one, don't rhyme or whatever. Even music-wise, if something sounds right then don't overdue it or change it. Don't like make it better. Just make it exactly how you feel what is right for that particular song, if that makes sense.

AJ: Yup. There's 6 songs on Dedication. Is there anything out there that didn't make the cut? Or, did you start with 6 songs?

SETH: When I was putting together the pre-production of this EP there was one song that I finished, but it sounded like something else on the EP, so I trimmed the fat. I had the idea of a doing a few acoustic variations of older songs, but I wanted this EP to stand on its own without older songs taking the spotlight.

AJ: Let's look at the songs themselves ... unless there's something else you want to hit on before we go there?

SETH: Nothing is coming to mind.

AJ: Okay, we'll see where we go then. "Forget Me Never" with the chorus: "Forget me never/I want to remember/what we had together." My first thought, & this is really the very first question that came into my head when I first heard the song ... who is this for?

SETH: The ultimate answer to that question of the century is: all my friends out there. My friends from up north where I'm from, my family, my co-workers, my friends who I graduated with this year, every single person I've known in my life. "Forget Me Never" is basically a tribute to all those people, being a huge part of my life, a huge support.

AJ: I think it is also a very strong lead-in song. I think it's one of the stronger songs. Maybe it's a lyric thing I'm connecting with, but I think it's one of the strongest songs on the album.

SETH: Thank you. My dad, being a huge fan of my music, he says this is the pinnacle of where I am right now. This is it - the big break. I'm very proud of this track. It's a very simple song, yet its very deep in terms of the melody & all that.

AJ: I think the other thing I like about it is ... again, I'm like who is this for? I couldn't figure it out. Is this a love relationship? Is it a friendship? It's very open & in that sense a listener can really put a lot into it. It's one of those songs you put on a mixed tape to your partner. You know what I mean? This is how I feel, even though the song was written for you & your dog. People like these open songs.

SETH: Right.

AJ: Let's go to "Union Of The Universe", which has a very prog-rock type title. I imply your first album when I say that, which was very proggy, compared to your later stuff. This one & actually "Colored Princess" both sound like love songs. To maybe a particular person or to a couple people. Very different than "Forget Me Never". Tell me about "Union Of The Universe."

SETH: Since you are a Doctor Who fan you're going to really love this one. "Union Of The Universe" has a lot of Doctor Who related stuff in it.

AJ: I'll have to go back & listen in that context. I don't normally listen for Doctor Who references in music.

SETH: I sugar coated it really well. People wouldn't know that until I tell them that & I only tell that to Doctor Who fans.

AJ: Alright. I will go back. This is funny. I see the posters on your wall & I'm wearing my Doctor Who shirt today. It doesn't have John Hurt the War Doctor or Peter Capaldi so only a year old & already out of date. This is funny. I've been doing interviews for years & I've never been able to throw Doctor Who into any of them, having been watching the show for 26 years, & now you're the second person this week who has referenced the show knowing I'm a fan. The other one was with Scott Kelly of WIZARDS OF WINTER who telling about the story format of their live concerts said it was kinda like the Doctor in the Tardis as it changes every year. Welcome to the era of Facebook where everyone knows your interests. But, seriously, I don't think "Union Of The Universe" is dedicated to the Doctor.

SETH: It's not. This song was written & dedicated - we're going back to that word again - to the 11th Doctor's companion Amy Pond. I'm a huge huge fan.

AJ: Okay. Now I have to think about that. Now I have to go listen again.

SETH: You'll hear a lot of references to that character, for sure.

AJ: The third track "Colored Princess." Now I'm worried. What other TV references are on this album?

SETH: Interesting you'd say that, because "Colored Princess" is actually a reference to a movie. It's in reference to Disney's cartoon Frozen. I wanted a song that was basically kinda like delving into the personalities of the Snow Queen. I wanted a song that said don't hide what makes you great. Don't keep that inside you. Be who you are. That kind of thing.

AJ: I remember you telling me in our first interview that your first album had a lot of references to pop culture stuff. It looks like you're doing that again a little bit. After the autobiographical album & songs that are a little more personal, here we are going back in some way to your earlier days. Right? Or, is this just coincidence.

SETH: In a sense. Maybe it's coincidental, but it is kind of a nod to the first album with references to things & all that. On this EP those 2 songs are the only references to pop culture or anything.

AJ: Darn it! They sound like love songs to me & I couldn't figure out who they were for.

SETH: In a sense, definitely. I think "Colored Princess" is more of a hopeful song to inspire.

AJ: To uplift & inspire. It's not a love song, but it offers itself to that place as an emotional revealing.

SETH: But, I just want to say, I didn't dedicate it to the Snow Queen. Here we go again. "Colored Princess" is dedicated to my big sister, who is an artist. I just wanted to say, express your art, be who you want to be.

AJ: So, the Snow Queen & Frozen are just motifs for something personal.

SETH: Just something to make this figuratively more interesting. It's a song to inspire my big sister.

AJ: So, I have to now ask, is there a bigger picture to "Union Of The Universe" beyond just Amy Pond from Doctor Who?

SETH: No, it's just a love song dedicated to Amy Pond or actress Karen Gillan because she's gorgeous & all that.

AJ: That's fair enough. I don't know if you've watched any of the classic series, but I used to like Nyssa who was the fifth Doctor's companion.

SETH: Is that Tom Baker?

AJ: No, after him, Peter Davison with the cricket outfit & blond hair.

SETH: I haven't watched much of the old series yet.

AJ: "I'm Sorry."

SETH: I'm sorry, too.

AJ: Good for you! That's what you get for writing Doctor Who songs. But, I meant it as in the name of the next song. Tell me about "I'm Sorry."

SETH: This song actually triggered in me the idea of making an acoustic EP. It's the first song that was meant for this EP as a new one & then I just pulled out my older songs that I hadn't finished yet. It's about, we're being a tad personal here ...

AJ: You say whatever you feel comfortable.

SETH: Excellent. "I'm Sorry" is basically a song dedicated - here we go again - to my ex-girlfriend. Basically, we ended on a kind of rough note. I have a hard time apologizing in person. Writing a song is my strongest point. How I felt in that situation is the song, basically. It's an apology.

AJ: Works for me. I express my feelings on paper sometimes better, too. Let me ask, taking this sad song with a sad connotation & pulling it up again & working on it, how did that feel?

SETH: After we ended kinda badly I kept thinking about her & maybe we ended on the wrong foot. I just wanted to say sorry but didn't want it to be really awkward. It's not really like an old song. It was written in 3 hours. I had the idea that night. Didn't sleep. Just wrote it all the way through. I sent it to her, but unfortunately I haven't heard from her since, which is ...

AJ: The end of that.

SETH: Yup. It just felt like for me personally I had some sort of closure or some sense of that it was done & I can move on. I did my part to apologize. I don't need to worry about.

AJ: So, in that sense the song almost, because it moves beyond its moment of writing, it becomes something better. It's now a song of closure & not a song of upset or anger. Or, it can become like that.

SETH: Definitely.

AJ: I hinted earlier that most of the album is acoustic with vocals & you knew that I was implying that there's one song that's a little bit more elaborate, that's "The Other Me." This is orchestrated. I say orchestrated, but you layered some keyboards on it, plus you have some backing vocals.

SETH: Yeah, but the thing is that backing vocalist is me.

AJ: This song breaks the mold of the album musically. Let's start from there. What's special about "The Other Me"? Why does this one get something different musical about it?

SETH: I'll just start from the beginning. You want to talk about the music or the lyrics?

AJ: Let's start with the music.

SETH: Okay. I wanted this song to have like the coolest chord progression. The verses obviously are different from the chorus & they gradually build upon each other in terms of dynamics. Especially in the beginning you get a few notes, then the second chorus it starts to pick up & then the third chorus it explodes. & I wanted this to gradually build up in terms of intensity with the vocals. Even though it's an acoustic album having a little bit of strings come in I thought would bring out the emotion a bit more of that song.

AJ: But, can't you bring out the emotion just with the acoustic guitars by maybe layering an additional guitar or something?

SETH: I did add some light picking of the acoustic guitars like here & there, just to like fill in the spaces. But, I feel like ... yeah, I could have done that with acoustic guitar like exclusively, but the idea I had in my head was a lot of like orchestrated build-up.

AJ: I know, you just gave up. 'No more acoustic guitars. I need a full band. I can't wait anymore.'

SETH: Yeah, this song definitely needs a full band effect to get the full thing done, but I like the final result came out great. I'm happy with it.

AJ: Tell me about the lyrics.

SETH: We're going back to that word dedication again. The key word of the day. "The Other Me" is dedicated to myself. It's a song written for me. I'll tell you the inspiration when I began writing this song. The first verse that I sing about it's a dream. This dream is actually based on a good friend that works with me at my job. He was telling me about this dream of how he saw his younger self & his younger self wanted to be friends with him. It was very emotional & that just triggered the idea of writing this song. The first verse was inspired by my friend's dream. Each verse is a different time period. The first verse is a dream where I see my younger self. The second verse is reality where I see a mirror of who I am right now. The third verse is maybe a vision where I see my older self.. Each one has the singular message 'I am you. You are me. Love yourself.'

AJ: It's kind of wibbly wobbly timey wimey. Did you share the song with your friend who had the dream?

SETH: Yes, I did. Right after I finished it I sent him the rough mix. He loved it. He felt it enhanced the idea of what his dream was trying to tell him.

AJ: We've got one more song on this collection, "Dear Family." This song screams dedication. So we open with "Forget Me Never" to everyone out there & then we end with "Dear Family". It's bookends.

SETH: For sure. I wanted "Dear Family" to be a pretty simple song. What you hear is one guitar, one vocal. It's not as elaborate as the others.

AJ: That's it. It's 6 songs. We're done. We've covered the background, some things, the songs. Now I have to go back & listen to one of them. Is there anything else that we haven't hit on that you've had on your mind & want to share about this album that you created over the summer?

SETH: The album is out on bandcamp first & then I'm considering a physical CD release. I'm going to a few gigs ... after I get rid of this cold.

AJ: I did want to ask along that line, I'm glad you mentioned that, in our last interview you had said that for your first album you recorded & then put all the packaging together. I was wondering in Bull Moose record store recently in the local music section thinking about you. Are your 4 albums only available on bandcamp or is there anything physical out there?

SETH: Just a limited quantity release. If you wanted a copy of an album they were $10 bucks a piece & I would make a copy myself. If 20 people wanted 20 copies I'd make that & that would be it. I really want to make a bunch of copies, like through Discmakers or something, that I can bring to Bull Moose & out to shows when I start playing again. I think digital releases are easy, because you can get it to everyone without having to do so much work, because it's kind of a big job to get all that together.

AJ: It's also costly.

SETH: I was trying to get 100 pieces. I wanted simple packaging because it was an EP. It was going to be like $300. I was thinking if I didn't make it myself I would save some.

AJ: Then if you want more copies, it gets very expensive very quickly. One option that I have actually seen people do ... a guy I knew he took a bunch of songs that he had recorded on cassette tape & then made a CD of the best of. Sort of the best of his early stuff. So then he didn't reissue each album, but just took a couple tracks from each. So, in your case you wouldn't have to reprint all 4 previous albums, as that's 4 times 100 times 300. Then if you like it, you can get online & download more.

SETH: It's funny that you mention that, because I was thinking about doing not a greatest hits, but the best tracks of the last 4 years, to encompass where I've been, then have these new tracks. Probably a double album, though.

AJ: Yeah, so there is some options to do a cheap route beyond bandcamp, but bandcamp is definitely good for just getting the music out there, saving money & just moving forward.

SETH: Right.

AJ: So, let's tie things up here. So, you're working on a new album. Do you feel like you've closed a chapter?

SETH: Dedication is the prologue of this new chapter.

AJ: Even better.

SETH: The next album will be the next reinvention of what I do. That was basically the first era, now we're going to be in this one.

AJ: One more question. Will we see any more tv & movie stars?

SETH: In references?

AJ: You betcha.

SETH: For you, man, I'll throw in a few.

"I Feel Naked" An Interview With SARAH NICKERSON & JAMES NICKERSON of BANGTOWN TIMEBOMB

2014-12-10T10:54:00.003-08:00

Aug 2014 (skype)

Bangtown Timebomb is a punk influenced metal band from Bangor, Maine that had been around for over a year when they welcomed 2014 with a shot in the arm of new musical energy via guitarist Matt Chabe. Following Matt's entrance they released a self-titled debut EP on bandcamp & started steadily gigging in the area. Bangtown Timebomb features husband & wife in vocalist/founder Sarah Nickerson & guitarist James Nickerson, plus drummer Jeff Prymowicz & bassist Brandon Ryder.
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I had the opportunity to talk with Matt about his musical background & Bangtown Timebomb after stumbling across the band's EP, available on this blog. A couple weeks later I did a joint interview with Sarah & James for a different look at the band. These 2 interviews made for a interesting complimentary overview of Bangtown Timebomb's music, musical philosophy & history. What was interesting is that while Matt's interview tended to zoom down to personal realm of his work in marketing, talking to the Nickersons explored the other side of the coin by delving briefly into the bigger picture of the Maine metal scene & the drive behind whose being marketed. Since these interviews the band has continued to gig & build a name for itself.

* * * * *

AJ: BANGTOWN TIMEBOMB. Where does that name come from?

SARAH: It took a long time to come up with a band name. First of all, to come up with ideas that everybody could agree on. For me, BANGTOWN TIMEBOMB was kinda the end of the road when it came to a band name. The point was to combine elements of where we're from with the bangtown. It kinda being a geographical name of where the band is now. Timebomb ... first of all, it literarily goes with bangtown quite well & secondly I'm a big RANCID fan. There's a song with timebomb in the title. So, that's kinda how that came about. Do you have any deviations from that story, James?

JAMES-: No, other than the ridiculous names we had on the board. We knew this one would be the most fitting, plus it was available, different, unique.

SARAH: & it's not silly. That was the other thing. All of our names were pretty silly, immature. Not serious at all. This is the one we all could agree on. It seemed to fit the band pretty well.

AJ: Choosing a band name can be as hard as composing a song. Or, maybe composing a song can be easier than choosing a band name, I should say.

SARAH: Naming the songs is also difficult.

AJ: Tell me about the band. Who am I talking to & who else is in the band?

SARAH: I'm the singer. I am basically the one who started it. It was what I wanted to do. For me it was a long time out of music, becoming an adult, having kids, having a quote unquote career. It was getting back into music in a way that was like 'This is what I really really wanted to do right now,' you know. I had the idea of it & then trying to assemble the players together, which was either something that fell in my lap or by chance that I came across somebody.

AJ: When you say it was what you wanted to do, what was it that you wanted to do, Sarah?

SARAH: I wanted something that was fun. Something that really played simple rock'n'roll. For me, punk is where my heart is. & to do something in the Bangor area that was more than metal & kind of a different direction than other bands. Come up with something fun & a way to escape real life.

AJ: Introduce me to your partner-in-crime there in BANGTOWN.

SARAH: James is the third person who came along into the band. He's actually my husband. He's been in multiple bands since we've been together. You want to share from here?

JAMES: I came into the picture as far as the band goes probably about 6 or 7 months in. She had a drummer & was working through guitarists. I was just subbing in on bass because I was in the middle of a project. That project ended up coming to an end for various reasons. Then she needed a guitarist & I thought, hey, you know, because I've been in metal since day one, hardcore & all that ... I just felt like I needed a change of pace, something that wasn't so serious. The metal scene here, hard rock & other bands, I have a lot of respect for a lot of the bands here, it's just I wanted to take a step away & do something that was different & very invigorating for me.

AJ: Let me ask, were you 2 already married when joined, James.

JAMES: Yup, we were married. We've been married 6 years. About a year ago is when I joined the band.

AJ: So, it wasn't a situation of 'Hey, I'm starting a band. You're my spouse, so you're automatically in it.' It was more like you don't have to or you're so busy or whatever.

JAMES: I think it was more, like I said originally, I was just playing bass for them to kinda round things out, to give them that rhythm section, to kinda help them along. Then it just turned into, hey, I'll play guitar. At the time Sarah was the only songwriter & 'I can play what you want' & it just kinda blossomed from there.

AJ: Tell me who else is in the band. I already know we have Matt Chabe whose on guitar. Who else?

SARAH: Jeff, he's our drummer. I actually went to high school with him & his brother. His brother & I went to the New England School Of Communications together for audio engineering. With Jeff it was one of those by chance moments where James was urging me, 'You do the music, I'll help you. I'll take the kids & you can have a night where you guys can jam out.' So, I was at a point where it was like I needed to find a drummer. That was my biggest concern starting the band. It just happened one night we went out & it was a friend's birthday party & Jeff was at the restaurant. I couldn't help myself. I had to see if he was interested. It was amazing. That just compelled everything. We also have Brandon [on bass]. When you meet him you will never forget him. He's a whole lot of fun. He's probably our socialite. He's a frat brother & the military. He's now a nurse. He's really an all around cool guy. Do you want to expand upon him? He has more of a history with you than I do.

JAMES: I was in a band with Brandon some years ago. We started another band & he carried over to that. He plays bass. Starting out mostly because we really like the guy. He was always the guy who was at our parties always hanging out with us. I really pushed to get him into a band with us playing bass. We always need a bass player. Metal bands always need a bass player. I knew his energy. It was a natural energy. He'd be a great performer.

SARAH: & he's a committed player, as well.

JAMES: He is very committed. When he steps in to do something he sticks with it. He doesn't back off. He didn't really play an instrument before us. He played some drums in the marching band of the National Guard. Marching band is probably not the right name. ... I recommended him to Sarah, 'You know, after years of playing with him, he'd be a great fit for this band, because this band is about having fun.' He's got good energy & I felt he would be a great fit on bass. He has good energy, great showmanship & he committed to learning how to play.

SARAH: I think he was also appealing because he would really like the music. Brandon is a really great guy. When you mentioned his name, it was like no shit, he's got to be in the band.

AJ: Sarah, how long ago was it that you started the band?

SARAH: Year & a half. I have a horrible memory. That's a better question for James.

AJ: Year & a half, give or take, that's good enough. But, you just changed line-ups this year with the addition of Matt.

SARAH: Right.

JAMES: Matt came in the first of this year. We had tried a couple other guys out prior to him. None of them seemed to work out. Mostly it was because I was digging into my background with metal bands, that's where I come from & that's what I know, but none of them wanted to really make that transition from metal. Understandably so. One of my good close friends, Mike Grant ...

SARAH: Who should also be considered an unofficial member, because he's the one that went over to Jeff & talked to Jeff that night. It was his birthday party, by the way. So, unofficial sixth member. & he recorded our EP.

AJ: We'll say the band adviser.

JAMES: Yeah. It was through him that he recommended Matt, because I was pushing trying to get him to join to join the band to play guitar for us, because he's all around drums, guitar & all that.

SARAH: He's actually in NOBIS now.

JAMES: Yup, he's the bass player in NOBIS right now. But, he recommended Matt. He had some previous experience with Matt through Matt's cover band SMELLS LIKE THE '90'S. Did some work doing their sound. He recommended Matt & I was like alright, let's give him a shot. Matt came by, played his stuff & it was like yup, will do.

AJ: James, you said earlier that you were looking to break away from metal. When I interviewed Matt Chabe the other day he was telling me, considering he comes from a jazz & hard rock & very different background, how working with you he has discovered metal & has a new appreciation of metal through you. So, it's interesting that you were trying to break away from it, but you have a guitar player who credits you with bringing him closer to what you were trying to leave.

JAMES: I think what I was referring to with breaking away from it was more or less the scene itself than necessarily the music. I still today, when we're trying to write a song & trying to write material, I instinctively start palm muting it, I start speed picking & I start dropping licks in there. It's just instinctual. I know I'm never going to be able to completely walk away from it, it's just impossible. I still try to keep a little bit of that metal edge in the band, simply because I feel it will help the overall sound in making us a little bit more unique. A little bit of that metal edge gives us a little bit of a rush.

AJ: When you say you want to break away from the metal scene are we talking about the Bangor & Maine metal scene or just the metal scene in general?

JAMES: I'll be candid here. I think it's the Maine metal scene. I can get really deep with this, but to just kinda get to the bare bones of it, it comes down to the fact that everybody wants to break it big. Everyone wants to get that record deal & go on tour, but doesn't want to realize the fact that there's a lot of hard work that goes into getting that. Not just getting the big golden ticket handed to you & you're off in la la land. There's just so many egos out there about how how awesome we are that they're batting on everybody else. I have immense respect for bands like NOBIS & DEAD SEASON. Hammered it out for decades & put in a lot of hard work to get the point of ... what success that they have is not the success of a TRIVIUM or ALL THAT REMAINS, but in the state of Maine you ask anyone who listens to metal they know who NOBIS are. Now, you'll get people that will argue that DEAD SEASON is not metal, they're blah blah blah, but there's all different facets of metal.

AJ: It's funny you should say this. I used to play bass in some punk metal bands in Manhattan & Brooklyn some years ago & one reason that I stopped was that I remembered playing with this one guitar player who was like 'we're going to record with MEGADETH someday.' I'm thinking, yeah, someday, if you don't stop forgetting to book the rehearsal studio so we can rehearse at least once a month. It was all about that big break not really realizing how much work it takes to get there.

JAMES: Yup. I find with most of those individuals the only thing that they want is that 15 minutes of glory up on stage. They're not really in it for the music itself & writing it & having a collaboration of friends who you really enjoy making music with & go out there & perform it. Granted, there might be a little ego here in my own right to say this, but I've always felt that when I go to perform on stage I'm not really doing it for the fans, I'm doing it for me. Mostly for me. I want to let this energy out. I want to express myself to those who want to listen. I want them to come on the ride with me & I want them to enjoy it. But, I'm not there for the, you know, I'm cool & doing that cock stance where you got your peacock feathers up in the air. To sum it up, it had become very convoluted. Very 'we're better than all the other bands in the state. There's no reason we can't get these gigs, that we're not bigger than NOBIS or DEAD SEASON.' The fact is they're not willing to stop & look at themselves & realize you're the reason you're not as big as them, because you piss & moan & piss off the band, piss off venues. The pay to play thing doesn't help, obviously.

AJ: I know.

JAMES: There's no drive to push it forward.

SARAH: Not enough motivation.

JAMES: Motivation, no drive.

AJ: I want to pull something off of what you just said, James, about the word 'drive'. Sarah, I'd like to turn to you for a second & talk about drive in terms of lyricist. As the original lyricist, I don't know if anyone else is contributing to this or not, but what drives you as a lyricist?

SARAH: You don't want to go there.

AJ: The big mystery.

SARAH: We were talking about doing a video the other day. If we did a video I'd want it to have something to do with the lyrics & we were talking about that. Our drummer says, thinking about what the video might look like: "I'm going to need your lyrics, because I don't know what you said here." If there's anything I pride myself the most about, being a musician, being an artist, it's lyric writing. I feel like that's where my soul comes out. I used to write songs kinda linearly, so I'd write the music & the lyrics at the same time. But, with this project it's completely different. I'm basically kinda waiting for the song to be finished so I can write a bridge. From the bridge is where I kinda decide what the rest of the stuff will feel like, & then from there I decide on a subject. There's a lot more thought involved with this project. I've had to adapt with my lyric writing.

AJ: Why the change in approach?

SARAH: Before BANGTOWN I was the one writing the songs & the lyrics. Now, I just don't have the time for that anymore. & that's one of the reasons why I wanted to be in a band. The kind of band that we have is everybody's contributing. It's not just me showing a song to the bass player & the drummer & then they just write their parts. It kinda worked that way at first, to kinda build a foundation for the band, for the songs, for the style, the sound. But, it really does come down to time. I work 2 jobs. I've got 2 kids. I've got a house. Being an adult is a lot harder than being a student & having all the time in the world to write songs that come to you, you know.

AJ: When I talked to your guitarist Matt he said when he came into the band there was a bunch of songs written already that he tried to just put his playing on, but now you guys have come to maybe do some composing with him. Am I right?

SARAH: Yes. Absolutely. That's one of the most important things I want in this band, that every person feels like a contributor. That what they have is something that creates the sound of the band, you know. James is the metal. I'm the punk. Matt is the classic rock, sometimes.

JAMES: Jazz & stuff.

SARAH: He has more of an ethereal thing. Brandon is more classic rock. Then Jeff, he's like ... I don't know about Jeff.

JAMES: Jeff is a mish-mosh of a lot of things.

SARAH: He's like techno, metal.

JAMES: He's played in metal bands or hardcore metal bands. He's very eclectic in his general style. He's one of the best drummers I've had the luxury of playing with. Where he is so open-minded he doesn't play off of what the genre typically calls for. He more just naturally lets it go, not like your typical drum beat on top of a rock rhythm I'm playing. More of an indie metal sound or a jazzier sound. It works.

SARAH: It's kinda refreshing he isn't tuned to one genre. That makes it more expansive, you know.

JAMES: I'd like to admit it now, the drummer is the backbone of the band.

SARAH: As crazy as they are.

AJ: Sarah, at the beginning of our talk you said you started BANGTOWN thinking of it more as a punk band or something. & James, there's you looking to change the pace a little from what you've typically done. From where BANGTOWN started & to where it is now ... today, how would you define the music that you play? Where does it fall?

JAMES: It would be interesting to hear the different perspectives on that.

AJ: I know it's the most mundane question everyone gets asked, but on the other hand it's like the key question.

SARAH: It's a good question, actually, Aaron.

JAMES: For me at least, I think honestly the fact that you can ask everybody in our band & you probably would get a different answer. I actually like that, because I think that speaks to who we are as a band, I think at the core. ... I don't have a huge background in it, but I do know what punk is. I heard punk growing up here & there, never really dove into it. I can't tell you any band off the top of my head. But, we are at the core punk. I think we've got a little bit of, you know, classic rock influence in there ... with a twinge of metal ... a twinge.

AJ: Okay. You've got a 4 song EP on bandcamp with a twinge of a whole bunch of stuff on it. When I was listening to the tracks the other day, I don't know which song, but I remember hearing something & then there was a break in the lyrics & all of a sudden I'm going 'Wait a minute. These guys aren't just playing some thrashing chords. There was a little melody line or something underneath that.' I had to go back & re-listen. There was a little bit of a movement underneath it. There were some textures you're throwing in, which is probably the best word for it.

JAMES: I think that's a good way to put it. Main reason why I tried hard to get a second guitarist. There was whole lot of battle back & forth in the beginning stages on having just me play guitar.

SARAH: So I wouldn't have to.

JAMES: For me, I wanted Sarah to focus on being the frontwoman.

SARAH: I've never been a frontwoman without an instrument on me before. So, that was something that was new for this project as well.

AJ: How do you feel about the difference between the 2? Having an instrument versus not having one?

SARAH: I feel naked.

AJ: Okay.

SARAH: It's being completely vulnerable, because there's times when you don't sing. What do you do when you don't sing, you know? Just standing there. I've become a ringmaster now, as opposed to ... when I was playing guitar I could just look at my hands & play guitar & it's okay. Now it's like I'm interacting more. Which is more of what I wanted, as well. I feel like I can actually make a connection better, more efficiently.

AJ: We've all seen singers & guitar players where they are stuck with an instrument & can't really get the audience going. On the other hand, you see singers who once they're done they just stand there like a scarecrow. I remember once seeing a metal band with a female singer who would just stand there in between lyrics looking like she wasn't even enjoying herself. You're right. You gotta be a ringmaster.

SARAH: Actually, meeting James & getting to know him, he was actually a singer for a long time, a frontman. Watching him do what he did was really inspiring for me. It really gave me the confidence to think like I could do that too, maybe, you know. I think I've picked up a lot of things that he did & used them for myself for our shows.

AJ: James, is it you doing the growling backing vocals on your bandcamp songs?

JAMES: Yeah, that's me.

SARAH: Surprise!

JAMES: Yeah, I'm the one doing the screaming.

AJ: It provides an interesting chorus effect.

JAMES: I think originally when I got my microphone I was just messing around with stuff when we were in the middle of writing songs in the beginning. You know, just trying to mess with Sarah.

SARAH: Then Sarah gave the okay.

JAMES: Then Sarah gave the okay & said, "Maybe you could scream this here & it would be really cool." I went alright. I think "Bomber" is where I had the most screaming in there.

AJ: You don't growl that much. It's just a little bit & I think that's what makes it good. I think of LACUNA COIL ... you're not doing a duet, you're just providing a little vocal support. I think it's a nice balance

JAMES: That we definitely draw on Sarah. I think pretty much from day one she was hitting on "I don't want to do harmony. I don't want to do much overlaying stuff."

SARAH: That's part of the program. I want simple rock'n'roll. That's something I've been pretty adamant about this whole time with James. The growling ... I like that aspect. I like that. When it's thrown in occasionally it makes it sound special. But, also the same thing with gang vocals. That's something I really wanted in our sound as well.

JAMES: It ain't punk without gang vocals. Oi, oi, oi.

SARAH: He's right. So, I just feel like it's something special to add in. It's something that expands our sound. Further it brings in more listeners who are interested in that kind of stuff. It's part of who we are.

JAMES: It's definitely a part of who we are. It also helps us bridge the gap. I mean, the last show we played was a metal show with DEAD SEASON, NOBIS & CHAOS MACHINE & all metal bands. That was something I pushed. I wanted to be one of those bands that can play any show - a rock show, a pop show, a metal show. You know, bridge that gap. Most of the scene is really just metal, no rock or punk. There's really no community.

SARAH: Let's build a community, damn it. That's probably the thing holding Maine back is the fraction that exists. If we put all our powers together imagine what that could do.

AJ: Matt & I were briefly talking about that. He mentioned RUSTIC OVERTONES, which might not be metal but they're breaking beyond Maine. I think people are beginning to pay attention to the state & that's affecting the local scene of musicians who aren't part of the stereotypical folk scene. There's value here beyond that.

SARAH: I see it every show. It's something to be excited about & ambitious about. I feel like our band has come at a time when something big could be happening pretty soon. I think every band feels like that, but ... I don't know.

AJ: Going along that line ... what are you guys doing now? Where are you going?

JAMES: Working on merchandise. First of all.

SARAH: Merch & then a full length. We have enough material now to do a full length. I, of course, want to be picky about it. We've banged out 4 new songs in the past few practices. This is stuff we're talking about, but we're focusing on shows right now.

AJ: Playing out.

JAMES: I think we're looking to build our audience out there, our fan base. Our ultimate goal is to get a little fan base out there. We have a lot of ideas for all of this. Like Matt is very business adept & Jeff is extremely artistic. Brandon is our salesman. He can sell you anything. If not, he'll buy it & give it to you. I think me & Sarah we are idea people. We have a lot of ideas. I think right now we're working on those ideas & finding what the best possible approach would be to go. You can't just make an EP anymore & expect it to sell.

SARAH: It takes money.

AJ: You got to build your foundation.

JAMES: Exactly.

AJ: Or at least a foundation that interests people. You can't just put something on bandcamp & say here we are & stop there.

SARAH: Actually, we've gotten great response from local radio stations. Even promoters we wouldn't think would give us a chance. One of whom gave us our first show ever & it went great & now we had a second show. I think the connections we've created throughout the years are really starting to pay off for this new project.

AJ: Why did you just say that, Sarah, why did you say you didn't expect you'd get a chance? What are you referring to with that?

SARAH: On multiple levels. Our sound. But, most importantly, until we knew, we kinda have to show ourselves we're good.

JAMES: Prove ourselves. Obviously, on the music scene we've proved ourselves. Like I mentioned earlier, that whole pay-to-lay thing ... there's not very many options out there that are easy to get into anymore. Many clubs have closed down. It's hard for the local pee on bands to prove ourselves. Everybody wants to go see big names.

AJ: In terms of resume, to flesh out the picture ... who have you guys played with before? Do you guys have any bands in your past that still might have a little reputation floating out there or any albums still out there?

SARAH: For me I did a lot of solo stuff for awhile. Then I was in a band called SOME DAMN ENGLISH CITY with a couple musicians that were living in Orono at the time. I think our music stuck out enough where people were always noticing our songs. We were kinda ... what is the phrase ... cabaret punk. I played piano & there was a drummer & bass player. It was bare, but there was aggression. James, take the floor.

JAMES: I guess, it's a toss between the 2 of either DowNsouL or THE END OF IDOLS. With THE END OF IDOLS over the years we played with a lot of bands like POWERMAN 5000, GWAR. I think THE END OF IDOLS carries more weight, but in the metal scene here you're not going to get a very big audience.

AJ: I don't have any more questions. Is there anything we haven't hit on that you want to share?

JAMES: I think we've covered everything, but I think the biggest point is we want listeners to have a good time.

SARAH: Have a good fucking time. Go support local music.

"Me Being The Diver Who Has To Take Risks" An Interview With SAM PARSONS

2014-12-01T08:43:00.003-08:00

Oct 2014 (e-mail)

Sam Parsons is a British guitarist & singer/songwriter with a unique style that blends traditional British folk music with West African blues influences creating something that doesn't sound like your typical blues or folk. On bandcamp one can find the 5 albums he's released since 2011, showing a musician exploring the intricacies of his influences as he makes them his own over time, capped off by his December 2014 release Premonitions.

I've long had a soft spot for the blues, but with Sam's music I was hearing a style I was totally unfamiliar with. He was good enough to take some time to discuss his influences with me, thus enlightening me to this new sound, plus his approach to playing the music in his head including alternative tunings, his composing & musical growth.

* * * *

AJ: At home in the United Kingdom, the influence of traditional British folk stylings on your music is obvious, but how did you connect with West African blues as an influence?

SAM: When I was around maybe 15 or 16, my dad & big sister used to listen to Ali Farka Toure & musicians from West Africa, in particular the country of Mali. I just loved the unique blues guitar sound of Ali Farka Toure & started trying to mimic it!

AJ: Your websites specifically states "West African blues influences", which I thought was interesting as you're listing a particular region, versus the more common "blues" a la the American south. I think most people are familiar with the American blues tradition/sound, but take me into your world & tell me the difference between the 2 blues styles. What are you bringing into your music from the West African tradition either emotionally or technically? Though, certainly, listening to your music it doesn't sound American bluesy, but there is some bent notes & picking styles that are reminiscent of some Son House or Charlie Patton era blues, or maybe something more akin to the more un-stereotypical Blind Lemon Jefferson.

SAM: I support the theory that American blues came about via the slave trade & that the original blues originates from Africa. My knowledge of history is not great, but if I'm correct the Western coast of Africa was most hard hit by the slave trade. Mind you, the natural music of Africa is a lot more jolly, upbeat & positive; just listen to Seckou Keita or Oumou Sangare. I think that American blues was influenced by the songs that slaves used to sing whilst working &, of course, the influence of being enslaved changed their music into much more of an expression of sadness, anger & hurt. Thus the combination of these 2 factors led to blues being perceived as mainly an expression of sadness. I therefore feel that West African blues & American blues are 2 separate but inter-related styles & as such I am much more influenced by the West African Style. The West African blues influence is not as much reflected in my more recent music as I began listening to different music, for instance Bon Iver & IRON AND WINE. As you mentioned, the influence is most notable in the guitar style; the way I hammer on & off rapidly & bend notes is most definitely influenced by West African music. Also the rapid fingerpicking style of the right hand can be traced back to this influence.

AJ: What musicians do you turn to for inspiration in the folk & also West African styles ... or, to put it another way, if someone wants to explore these directions further where would you recommend they bend their ears?

SAM: Okay, this question is easier! Ha. Folk: John Renbourn, Bert Jansch, Nick Drake, John Martyn. African Blues: Ali Farka Toure, Seckou Keita, Boubacar Traore, TINARIWEN & many more I can't think of right now.

AJ: You use open guitar tunings frequently. What are you using?

SAM: Yes, I am now mainly the using the same tuning but altering it with the capo as opposed to changing the pitch of the strings. Without the capo, the guitar is tuned to open D which is DADEAE, but I don't play any songs without a capo. I have been enjoying experimenting with using a capo but not covering all the strings. For instance, on the upcoming single, "All Night", the capo is placed on the 7th fret but only covering the bottom 4 strings, which makes the tuning AEABAE & allows me to fret the top 2 strings behind the capo!

AJ: Does your choice in open tunings come out of the British or the West African influence or elsewhere? If you can, for the non-musically minded where an array of notes has no meanings, to you how do the open tunings feel? For example, in my own guitar playing I know of a particular open tuning that has a lot of droning & puts me in an Indian mindset with the music being very hypnotic.

SAM: I stumbled across this particular tuning when trying to learn Ben Howard's "Everything". I gave up on learning the song because I get a bit of Attention Deficit Disorder when learning other people's music ... but fell in love with the tuning. I have used this tuning on everything since The Angel & The Diver. I feel it has a very bright sound possibly created by having 3 different notes each appearing twice. Before Long is mainly played in DADF#BE, which I believe is a tuning often used by Jose Gonzalez & sounds great with the repetitive droning of the lowest string played with the thumb in a fingerpicking style.

AJ: Looking at your EP's on bandcamp a theme of movement comes across with such songs as: "Home", "Going Solo", "Standing Still", "You're On A Journey" (from Salvation Army, 2011), "Time To Run", "A Fortune To Leave With Dignity" (from Before Long, 2012); yet there seems to be a changing life in later albums with: "I'll Leave My Worse Behind" (from The Angel & The Diver, 2011), "I Ain't Got No Worries On My Own", "It's All Over Now", "I've Seen You Change" (from Ain't Got No Worries, 2012) ... maybe this is just my own perception looking for a trend where none is ... but let me ask, what inspires Sam Parsons the songwriter?

SAM: Great question! Wow, it's hard to put into words. Before Long I feel was about the frustration of not having yet achieved what I thought I ought to have done; whether that be in work, relationships or recognition of my music. Hence the title Before Long - wanting things to improve quickly. The Angel & The Diver is a dedication to my father who passed away in December 2010. He was an artist. The cover art is a painting which he painted for me in May of his last year & he named that painting "The Angel & The Diver." I believe what he meant is that his influence is continuing spiritually; with him being the angel, interacting with me from a spiritual realm & with me being the diver; who has to take risks & put himself in danger in order to try & reap rewards or find sunken treasure. I am close to releasing a brand new EP called Premonitions. I decided on the name at the end of the process as I realized that the songs on it were actually much more related to situations I found myself in after I had written the songs than to what was going on at the time of writing them. So it was almost as if the songs became true after they were written. My next release is going to be all about being a millionaire & having super model girlfriends!! Ha. Not! But in all seriousness, I feel that this demonstrates that for me the writing process is quite ethereal & intangible as music is my best way of connecting to feelings/emotions within me that I can't seem to get to otherwise, which I guess is a big part of why I do it.

AJ: Your 2012 release Before Long & The Love Fires from earlier this year feature a violin player on a couple tracks. Who is this? He or she have a very interesting sound I have trouble describing, but might call it a lazy moan that brings visions of English countrysides & famed country vet James Herriott to mind.

SAM: Zachary De Santos is a superb viola player & a great friend. He lives in London now, about 6 hours drive from my home, & we plan to perform live together when I have shows in London.

AJ: Since November 2011 you've released five EP's on bandcamp of voice & acoustic guitar. But, 2012's The Angel & The Diver EP has the most unique feel of your albums musically & thematically to my ears.

SAM: The combination of my father's passing & the discovery of the open D tuning led to a much different sound.

AJ: Your newest release The Love Fires EP from this past February not just features the return of violin but also a different version of I've Got No Worries On My Own. What inspired you to reissue this song, along with giving it a new musical life?

SAM: For better or worse I can be a perfectionist & I felt I could do it a lot better, which is why you will sometimes hear the same song on different releases!

AJ: Your earliest bandcamp releases sound much more West African bluesy, while later releases sound more folk, if not even a bit more mainstream folk. How do you see your solo music changing over the years & where is it going?

SAM: Naturally, my musical taste is changing & developing. Most recently, I have been listening to music such as Bon Iver, DAUGHTER, Sufjan Stevens & Hozier. I can't seem to name what genre these are but it is more mainstream without losing its taste & quality in my opinion. In the last few months, I have become a lot less 'solo'. I now have the pleasure of playing alongside an excellent percussionist & awesome bass player, which is why I am excited for you to hear the Premonitions EP. Also featured on a couple of tracks is an outstanding female vocalist called Ruth Zewge who is actually Ethiopian, which ties in with the African influence in a lovely manner.

AJ: You've been playing guitar for close to 2 decades. What's your musical background?

SAM: Has it really been that long! Ha. Maybe I ought to be better at it by now! Basically, I just started playing guitar as a teenager & fell in love with it. I had 4 guitar lessons at school before deciding that I didn't want to learn the shit the teacher was teaching me & just stopped going. I taught myself from then on. I learnt punk rock songs from tablature on the same acoustic I still have now. I never had the patience to learn to read music. I eventually got tired of learning other peoples music & just wrote my own music all the time. I would just sit & play for hours on my own.

AJ: Keeping this shorter, let me end with the question ... anything else you want to share? What's next in your musical journey?

SAM: Next up is the release of the Premonitions EP & performing more regularly with the band!

"The Music Is Our Ocean" An Interview With DAX PAGE of KIRRA

2014-11-13T12:05:00.001-08:00

Oct 2014 (e-mail)

Kirra is a rock band out of Oklahoma City with a style described as "straight up rock & roll". Whatever that might mean to the listener, it's a fact they've been experiencing straight up growth. In their short life they've already opened 3 Doors Down, Saving Abel, Icon for Hire, Primer 55, Screaming for Silence & Kill Devil Hill, while gigging at such venues as the the Harley Davidson Show, Dallas Music Festival & the famous Whisky A Go-Go. In 2014 they released the 4 song EP Sounds From An Empty Room, while a 4 song demo is also available for listening on Sound Cloud. Members of Kirra include Jesse Williamson on vocals/rhythm guitar, Ryne McNeill on bass/backing vocals, Daxton Page on lead guitar & Zach Stafford on drums.l

I remember when I had the chance to go to my first high school reunion. I was fascinated by where my alumni might have gone versus where we expected they would go or what they proposed. That attitude has been with me for many other things including my extensive work promoting up & coming bands like Kirra. I love seeing potential grow & develop & surprise everyone. While a band like Kirra doesn't make you wait long to surprise as in their short history their resume has grown exponentially longer. Thus it's a pleasure to have been able to find out about the energy & experiences behind Kirra with their lead guitarist Daxton Page.

Special thanks to the band's manager Randy Page for making this interview possible & helping bring the band to my attention.

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AJ: KIRRA has been around for a little over a year. What's the band's history?

DAX: Well, KIRRA started out with Zach & I. We were looking for a bass player & a vocalist & had literally turned everywhere to find one. Believe it or not, we found Ryne on Craig's List. He answered our ad & told us his best friend was a vocalist who could play guitar, which was Jesse. KIRRA was literally forged our first rehearsal together. We even just jammed a song that later became a song off our EP titled "Drown" at our first rehearsal. We've been writing & trying to gig ever since!

AJ: You've opened for 3 DOORS DOWN, SAVING ABEL, ICON FOR HIRE, PRIMER 50, SCREAMING FOR SILENCE & KILL DEVIL HILL. Any highlight or story from one of these concert encounters that you can share?

DAX: I think just hanging around with the bands has been amazing! It's good to know famous known acts have humility even through fame. One thing that stands out was the crowd at the 3 DOORS DOWN show! Casino crowds are hard to please & they were with us from the get go. Definitely an unforgettable experience!

AJ: 3 DOORS DOWN is a Billboard Top 10 selling band. Any advice you would tell a band looking for the same type of gigging opportunities?

DAX: Getting that gig was a great opportunity. It helps to talk to & get to know as many people in the industry as possible. You never know who knows who & this is a who you know industry. Luckily we knew somebody in the casino circuit & they needed a band! Right place, right time, right people to know kinda thing.

AJ: Your new 4 song EP Sounds From An Empty Room, with its John Cage-esque title, is laced with deceptively depressing song titles (i.e. "Downfall", "Drown", "Lies", "Forgive Me"), yet the chorus to "Downfall" ("be my fall/be my downfall/I have nothing without you") demonstrates what I call the negative love song - love being described with a negative motif such as loss - which gives the EP to my ears a surprise outcome. Tell me about the writing side of KIRRA. Who does the composing, who does the lyrics & what's your process of creation?

DAX: How we write songs is done a couple ways. We mostly stumble upon riffs or chorus ideas & develop it in rehearsal. Every member of the band throws in their little touch to it. Lyrically Jesse writes 99% of them. The only track that's been recorded that I wrote lyrics for is "Forgive Me". Ryne has also came to me with some lyrical ideas that will be songs sometime soon! So really anybody with an idea comes to the table & we try to expand on it.

AJ: As you are currently work on your new full length album Run Away what can fans expect to hear and how does it differ from Sounds From An Empty Room?

DAX: Run Away is like our equivalent of Jimi Hendrix's Are You Experienced? record. Now when I say that I'm not saying by any means that this record is as legendary as Jimi's but that the way it was recorded. Jimi's first record was very raw & to the point. We tried to be as raw & as us as we could be. It will include songs from the EP & demo, but more updated. That way people can hear the evolution of some of the songs. This record we advise people listen too start to finish. We go through many styles of rock, even threw in a little blues-rock song.

AJ: On Soundcloud is a 4 demo that is much heavier sounding than your EP, on some level. In the year plus you've been together, how has the band grown musically? How have you grown as composers/songwriters?

DAX: Through the past year or so we have kind of come into our own style. We like to keep listeners guessing when listening to songs. You'll notice all our songs are very melody-based but once some sort of breakdown happens it gets very heavy & almost metal in some songs.

AJ: Your demo was posted online only after KIRRA was a few months old. Why did you decide to post recordings up so early, versus waiting longer to hone your band chops?

DAX: Well, basically, once we got those songs down we wanted to get them out so our fans could hear our music somehow & try to spread our music as early as possible.

AJ: Lastly, where does the band name come from?

DAX: The name comes from a beach in Australia. Surfers sometimes say when you're on the board & riding the waves it's easy to get lost in the moment & become one with the ocean. The music is our ocean.