May God bless our men and women in uniform - may he bless the families of those recently lost to conflicts around the world - and may He give our leaders wisdom - they are in desperate need.

In Flanders Fields
John McCrae (1872 - 1918)

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved, and now we lie

In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

Various members of the Kinnon family have seen Jason numerous times as he's popped into Toronto - the first time in a private home in Leaside. He's a very gifted player. Liam and I will be at Wednesday's event.

The performance video below was shot over a year ago by me - early in Jason's experimentation with the harp guitar. Imbi and I also shot a conversation between Jason and John Franklin. John is the Executive Director of Imago - the arts organization staging the event @ the Ignatieff Theatre.

A week ago (on Oct 30th), Imbi and I popped back into the north end of Toronto, to participate in an event put on by Forge Canada - the joint network created by the originally Australian Forge and Western Canada's Missional Training Network - begun by Cam Roxburgh with roots in the multi-congregation Southside Community Church where Cam is team leader.(A longtime church network leader and Canadian Church Planting consultant, Cam is part of the missional Roxburgh clan, his father, Bob, being one of the conversation's elder statesmen.)

The ever engaging Al Hirsch was in town along with Cam. (Cam is Forge Canada's National Director as well as being the National Director for Church Planting Canada, whose bi-annual congress is in Calgary this month.)

The Toronto event was put on @ Tyndale University College and Seminary - with Don Goertz as the host.

Hirschy had arrived in Toronto after spending the better part of a week in Winnipeg with friends of ours including Jamie Arpin-Ricci, Gerry Michalski and Brent Toderash (Brother Maynard).

I brought our little Canon Vixia HF11 with me, just in case Imbi and I might get an opportunity to grab a couple of minutes with Al, Cam and Don. We did.

As Al rightly points out, Canada, is much further down the post-Christendom road than much of the population in Canada's Trousers (the US of A). Honourary Canadian, Dave Fitch makes this same point in the Stetzer-Fitch conversation.

Forge Canada is one part of the missional church conversation in my country.

Missional and Emerging networks like Resonate (which people like Jordon Cooper, Pernell Goodyear, Jared Seibert and Jamie Arpin-Ricci are a part of) - and the Resonate inspired Cultivate Gatherings  (the next Cultivate Learning Party is Saturday, November 14th), the Epiphaneia folk, Sarnia's The Story - which has a disproportionate impact on the Canadian Missional Conversation (see Joe Manafo's One Size Fits All), Fresh Expressions Canada and numerous others are all part of what's happening in the occasionally Great White North. (In the summer, we are the great Green and Blue North - the Arrogant Worms explain.)

Since Imbi and I are producing a number of missional-focused videos, I'm thinking of creating the Kinnon Missional Network. But nah, on 2nd thought. I really don't think that would be appropriate.

I've created a Missional Channel widget that you are welcome to stick on your blog or website, if you'd like. It's automatically updated when we add a new missional video to the channel.

First, the Hanster pointed to this wonderfilled story where at Lighthouse Church of All Nations YOU COULD WIN $500 dollars if your seat number is drawn from a bag during the service. Two other lucky contestants congregants each win $250.

(Pastor) Willis concedes the cash prize is a gimmick to fill the pews. But he's unapologetic about the plan, because it's working. On a typical Sunday, his church draws about 1,600 people to its three Sunday services. But since the money giveaway started, about five weeks ago, the congregation has grown to about 2,500 each week, he said. The money for the giveaway comes from the church offering. [emphasis added]

Meanwhile, friends 'n' neighbors, in that severly underchurched area, known as Dallas/Fort Worth, First Baptist in Dallas is building "a $130 million expansion featuring a 3,000-seat worship center." [via] And one of the important things being solved by this $130 million expansion, PARKING!

Q: Will parking be improved?
A: Parking is an absolute priority in the plan.

Oh. Oh. And they've got a glowing cross, with a shallow pool, for...? I guess it's to remind them of Golgotha... or maybe not.

At the heart of the campus will be a towering stone water tower topped with a luminescent cross. The shallow pool at the bottom will be surrounded by green space, providing a common area for downtown residents and guests.

ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS. Are you people out of your frakin' minds.

Let me put this into perspective. I have a friend (from Texas no less) who builds 800 seater churches in East Africa for $60,000 US - with the local parishioners coming up with between 25 and 30% of that budget. (The church building budget when Imbi and I had our class in Kenya produce a video for them back in '02 was $50,000). They also build schools, orphanages and hospitals for the same kind of reasonable prices - using all East African labour and materials.

Which means, for one GREEN 3,000 seater church in the truly underserved Dallas market, we could build over TWO THOUSAND 800 seater churches in East Africa. First Baptist's decision makes complete sense to me - especially when you consider,

The design is filled with messages about our church. The glass, the water, the light and the spaciousness of the plan speak of openness, transparency and spiritual refreshment. In a way, the glass walls have an evangelistic effect: people walking by have a view in from the street and feel drawn in. The glass also unifies the architecture of the church by extending the aesthetic started by the Criswell Center, which was built in 2006, and thus capitalizes on our $50 million investment in that multi-purpose facility. As for long-term cost, modern technologies allow vast use of glass with surprising energy efficiency.

One might think all these asshats clowns took me seriously when I wrote this.

One of the things Marin responded to was the treatment of Professor Soong-Chan Rah's thoughts and ideas from Rah's book, "The Next Evangelicalism" - that treatment by CT's Managing Editor Mark Galli in this article. Galli quotes from Rah's book, cites it as coming from "(a) leading Asian Evangelical", but doesn't name the book nor properly attribute the quote. Professor Rah's name is not mentioned.

Galli finds himself being called on this, in his post's comment section, as Rah points out in his own post. Galli's defence in his comment response (at 10:48am on Oct 6/09) is to suggest that "careful reader(s) will see how I did this at various points in the article with other prominent people in our movement" - ahh, Grasshopper, the problem is in the eye of the careless beholder. And then Galli plays the C.S. Lewis card. "This is a style of disagreement I've learned from C.S. Lewis ...and I think it charitable way to express disagreement..."

That's the ticket. Play the C.S. Lewis card.

Stay tuned here folks. The next time I say something asinine and get called out for it - I'll appeal to that greater authority, C.S. Lewis. But rather than looking to Lewis' Abolition of Man ('cuz I'm not that smart), I'll probably cite Voyage of the Dawn Treader to back my position up. But still, it'll be C.S. Lewis to the defence of my stupidity. I'm good to go.

A Bit More Background
My anger / hackles / ire was (were) raised by these two paragraphs from Galli,

But while acknowledging how firmly enslaved we are, the author repeatedly says things like, "Lessons from the black church or lessons arising out of the theology of suffering can lead to freedom from the Western, white captivity of the church." And in an interview to publicize the book, he says, "In fact, the more diverse we become, Christianity will flourish."

As if the flourishing of church depends on our ability to make it diverse. As if liberation from the thick chains of cultural captivity is had by learning lessons from others. As if blacks, Asians, and Native Americans are not themselves captive to entrenched cultural ideologies. Missing here and in many such worthy efforts is an emphasis on God's power, not human example, to free us from the principalities and powers, and on the good news that it is not we who must build the shalom community but the ones who receive it as gift and promise.

I agree with Rah (as quoted above, I have yet to read his book), rather than Galli. I do this from the perspective of a white male who was ordained in a predominantly African-American church in Pittsburgh - and has had to deal with the sin of my own misguided sense of cultural superiority. I have also spent significant time teaching month long courses in Africa to Africans - where my pale pigmentation makes me numerically part of a minority - but functionally, still part of an elite - primarily because of that pigmentation. My family and I have needed to be intentionally cross-cultural in those situations to break down the historical barriers created by our being part of the paler nation.

It is both the norm and much too easy for the dominant culture to gather together for "church." Of course, all are welcome. Really. Just as long as you stay captive to "our" culture. I am shocked that a white American leader can so blithely state, "As if liberation from the thick chains of cultural captivity is had by learning lessons from others." Apparently not in your case, Mr. Galli. (Perhaps the magazine you edit should be known as Christianity Yesterday. The spirit of C.S. Lewis' writing made me say that. Or maybe it was G.K. Chesterton. Or Evelyn Waugh? Certainly not W.E. Kinnon.)

In St. John's Revelation (5:9), the elders and four living creatures sing a new song that includes, "...with your blood you purchased people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation." May I suggest that that is what the Christian church should look like.

And. From my family's experience. There is something mystical that takes place (I would suggest it is a movement of the Holy Spirit as we are obedient to the Holy Scriptures) when we are intentional in worshipping and living together as people from every tribe, every tongue, every nation, every age group - as we believe and model the belief that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [Gal. 3:28]

Left to our own devices, we will continue the tradition of the Sunday morning church service being the most segregated time of the week.

A Little History As to Why I Posted This:
Sometime in what now seems our distant past, Imbi and I owned a post-production company in Toronto (editing, special effects and audio post-production for television). It had a very '80's name (appropriate as we started the company in 1984), Scene by Scene®. (Link is to our website on Jan 06, 2000 via the Wayback Machine - which runs very slowly.)

A couple of days ago, in a moment of pathetic vanity when I should have been writing, I googled myself and discovered I had a credit @ IMDB...as an editor. Of all the work I've done as a director and editor, it's rather amusing that it would be this project I'd be noted for this. Don't get me wrong, I was honoured to work on Three Worms and An Orchestra with my friends @ JST Productions. After working with so many snakes in the biz, it was nice to work on a project that focused on worms - arrogant or otherwise.

For those interested in tech, I think it was the last project I ever did where we had multiple playback VTRs (Betacam and D-Beta) recording to a Digital Betacam Master deck - switching the program with a "live" feel - actually the antithesis of film-editing, for which I'm credited @ IMDB.

[via] Click here to see video. BTW, the last video he shows brings tears to my eyes.

He recently received an unsolicited email accusing him of being self-absorbed. This from a writer who wears his hubris on his sleeve, mouse clutched tightly in angry hand, stained grey by his clicks on Photoshop menus. My friend's interlocutor - the trusted sidekick of one who is self-enthroned on the Judgment Seat of God, offering insight as to who is in and who is outside the Kingdom - the sidekick similarly infected.

My friend's great sin, he writes transparently. He reveals himself, warts and all. His struggles, his passions, his musings, his diatribes, his insights - offered freely to all who are interested. And many of us are. His audience is one of the largest in the Jesus-focused blogosphere.

Baseball loving writer, Red Smith once said, "writing is easy, you just open a vein and bleed." And this my friend does. Which is problematic for those who insist they have all the answers or follow another who does - reflecting the too-often binary nature of blogdom's pushed pixel universe - one's and zeros, black and white, in and out.

I am reminded of Jesus' story of the tax collector and the pharisee. [Luke 18:9-14 from the Message]

He told his next story to some who were complacently pleased with themselves over their moral performance and looked down their noses at the common people: "Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax man. The Pharisee posed and prayed like this: 'Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, crooks, adulterers, or, heaven forbid, like this tax man. I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.'

"Meanwhile the tax man, slumped in the shadows, his face in his hands, not daring to look up, said, 'God, give mercy. Forgive me, a sinner.'"

Jesus commented, "This tax man, not the other, went home made right with God. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you're going to end up flat on your face, but if you're content to be simply yourself, you will become more than yourself."

Like the tax collector, I am a flawed and broken man in desperate need of a Saviour. And when I climb up on the soapbox that is this blog with my latest pontification, it is obvious I am no pontiff. My writing simply the bleating of a wounded sheep still trusting in the love, care and mercy of the Good Shepherd.

As to my friend; he is no more self-absorbed than any good writer. He reveals himself to his readers - in the true sense of the word - and makes those who hate personal revelation uncomfortable. More power to him.

[Image purchased from iStockPhoto.com]

This is a cheat. A cute pic of our dog, Dani.

And really.

She does have the answers.

We are busy trying to get her to talk.

Meanwhile, I just don't feel like writing - and I'm such a grump, it's better that I post Dani pics which should brighten your world, at least a little.

In a book review that got a fair amount of traffic this past summer, I responded strongly to the "authority" issue on which the writers pontificated - suggesting the book Why We Love the Church really should have been called, Why We Love Hebrews 13:17 - Obey Your Leaders & Submit to Them.

UPDATE: Read Alan Knox here and here on Hebrews 13:17. Via Alan the word peithō translated as obey "means “to be won over as the result of persuasion”".

Too many "leaders" see authority as a position attained via title. They translate the word as "the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience". It's a power word - submit or else.

Mark Driscoll in a January 2009 NYT article title, Who Would Jesus Smack Down, was famously quoted as saying that people who dared challenge his authority were "sinning through questioning" - this during the church process of consolidating the power in the church to "Driscoll and his closest aides". It would appear that MD would translate authority as the right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience - "break(ing) their nose(s)" if necessary.

But authority can, and in my not humble but accurate opinion, should be translated as the power to influence (UPDATE: or persuade) others because of one's recognized knowledge about something and experience practicing it with a high level of efficacy. (Note that this is a Kinnon translation based on a number of others.)

Unfortunately it is both via experience and research that I can write that the church seemingly overflows with narcissistic leaders who live to exert power and control. (Follow Alice down the rabbit hole that is the People Formerly Known as discussion if you'd like to do your own research.) It matters little what cheering section of the theological pool these people are in - they are in it for the power. Let me reinforce this: because I use a Driscoll example does not mean that I believe his particular section of the theological pool - filled as it is with buff naked guys and no women (I'm creeping myself out) has any higher percentage of narcissists than the mainline, emerging, RC, EO or the 90,000 variations of the evangelical church. (One of the positions people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder - extreme narcissists - are attracted to is church leadership. It is one of the best places to practice irrational authority unchallenged - as these leaders convince you they are on a mission from God. If you learn best via pictures - this might help.)

Perhaps it is a knee-jerk reaction then, when I read or hear church leaders insist on authority - and use terms like discipline rather than discipleship. Who speak of themselves as shepherds and their followers as sheep. (Though technically, biblically correct - too often this is twisted into stupid, smelly sheep being owned by their respective "shepherds" as this attests. I should note that Pastor is the Latinate translation of shepherd.)

But Matthew 20:25-28 is still the true test of Christian leadership. You are a leader with authority if you serve, rather than are served and value your position as last rather than first amongst the sheep - of which you are one.

Authority is earned. Respect is given - rather than demanded.

Titles no more give you authority than owning snow tires gives you a vehicle that works in the winter.

UPDATE: I should note that my friend, John Frye's posts on the role of Pastor have been one of the triggers for this post. Particularly the discussion between John and Alan Knox on John's first post of his series. John's latest posts seem quite different from his position here. (Which was written 2.5 years ago - people are allowed to change, of course.) I actually left a post in drydock that dealt directly with John's series.

Jamie Arpin-Ricci engages positiviely with John's series - Of Pastors, Priesthood and Power

In the comments below, my good friend and fellow Canadian, Robbymac appears to suggest that my negative review of DeYoung Kluck's book might be a symptom of wanting to be one of the cool emerging/missional kids. This post and particularly it's comments might dissuade him of that. My coolness factor is more a function of seasonal climate change. I am particularly cool right now - and not enjoying it - though the leaves are gorgeous as viewed from my office window. (Robby is working for YWAM in Mexico - perhaps he misses the cool... of Winnipeg.)

Len Hjalmarson's Vision, Mission and Revelation is a very good post to read after this one.

Personality cults with no accountability and no tradition and no structure to fall back on when the “Dear Leader” dies, or is found to have “fallen” — whatever — are no better than the men and women they’re built on. The “something bigger” you thought you joined just turns out to just be some guy named Rick, or maybe Franklin Graham.

I doubt Frank was referring to this, as the news had yet to spread, but it is interesting that he makes the above statement when it has been revealed that Franklin Graham made over a million dollars in income last year. Accountability indeed.

Apparently as of late last Friday, Graham has told the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association that "he wants to give up his pay as head of" the BGEA. He'll try to live on the $535,000 salary (as paid in 2008) from Samaritan's Purse. (There must be a lot of coins in that purse, eh.)

BTW - I'll probably be ordering Frank Shaeffer's new book, Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don't Lke Religion (or Atheism). It looks like both a good and important read.

Here's a Facebook "conversation" from earlier today.

(Disclaimer: All Kinnon Kids are now adults - not abandoned.)

Bill Kinnon: Sounds like a perfect day to CLEAN YOUR BEDROOM. :-)

Jon Harris (Family friend and the kids' former youth pastor): I could hear the sound of the parental hammer dropping from Gerrard and Coxwell.

Kaili Kinnon: Amazing no? Parenting via facebook.

Bill Kinnon: Much easier than in person, methinks.

Better Parenting via Facebook™ coming soon to a bookstore near you. You read it here first.

This proves Rylan's great wisdom in not Facebook-friending either his father or mother.

They are sitting in the centre of the building where Life on the Vine meets (the CM&A missional church planting gathering where Dave is one of the team leaders).

The videos of Ed and Dave are part of the Missional Channel available on Vimeo. You can also add the Missional Channel widget to your blog, if you'd like. (For the techies in the crowd, Ed and Dave were shot in HD with Sony HVR-Z1Us.)

Read Spurgeon on Liturgy, Evaluating Spurgeon's Criticisms of Liturgy and today's The Work of the People. From today's post,

Contemporary worship services, someone has said, can look like a rock concert followed by a stand-up comedian. This is true sometimes, but even when it’s not, it can sometimes look like the real work takes place on stage, while those sitting in rows are the audience. You can say that God is the audience, but sometimes it looks like the audience is sitting in the pews.

One of the benefits of liturgy is that liturgy can work against this dynamic.

I don't think Triple D is leaving the Baptists anytime soon, but at some distant point in the future it wouldn't shock me to see him in robes. I may yet live to see that day.

BTW - If you are in the Toronto area, the next Theology Pub is on October 19th. Triple D is it's instigator. Drop me a note and I'll send you the detes.

Imbi and I met Jeff Johnson on a Kindlings Hearth retreat earlier this year. Jeff's a composer, keyboardist, writer, singer and worshipper. (He's also funny and extremely energetic - but I won't hold that against him. The cropped image to the right was captured by Imbi.)

Jeff was kind enough to send us a copy of his new CD with Phil Keaggy, FRIO suite - which we received yesterday. The recording was inspired by their "experience at Laity Lodge on the Frio River in Texas." The music was produced as a collaboration with visual artist, Kathy Hastings. (We met Kathy this summer at The Kindlings Fest on Orcas Island. She's just as much fun and artistically gifted as her good friend, Jeff.)

I'm amused that iTunes classifies this music as New Age - a category that it may fit stylistically, if not spiritually. These two committed Christians have produced an artistic work that is layered, intriguing, engaging and very pleasing. Keaggy's guitar playing, as to be expected, is as good as ever. Jeff builds gorgeous and delightful sonic environments that allow Keaggy's guitar to soar. I recommend the album highly. (I'm bound to drive my family nuts with how often it gets played. A good thing I'm up north and they are in the city - though I'm pretty sure the muso Kinnon kids will love it too.)

Available from iTunes and Jeff's label website, Ark Music. (Check out Jeff's other albums on iTunes and at Ark - he's a gifted guy.)

I received Jim Belcher's book, Deep Church yesterday. (Actually, two copies. One from Amazon and one from IVP. Don't ask.) Having been under the weather for over a week, and with work backed up, I figured I'd get to his book next week. Well. I'm on page 164 of 210 - not including the Notes - which I read first. (That's a quirk of mine.)

I like Jim's book a lot and think you should buy it and read it. That doesn't mean that I love every jot and tittle. In fact there are a number of tots and jittles that I struggle with - primarily around his "deep preaching" sermon concept and it's particular emphasis.

Jim advocates what he calls Centre-Set Preaching - which follows a Homiletical Plot - over against Doug Pagitt's "progressional dialogue" preaching (Deep Church, Chapter 8). I find myself nodding in agreement as I read Jim's deconstruction of Pagitt's style - but then I'm oddly left cold by his own approach.

Scot McKnight gets it right explains my discomfort.

What is most needed is a complete spiritual formation approach to the entire church and for each person; outcomes need to be formulated by the leaders and the church so that the whole approach is embraced. Within the overall approach to realizing outcomes, which I would say are loving God, loving others and a life of holiness, sermons play a role and sometimes an important one. But serious formative changes occur when the individual and the group participate in, activate, and integrate what is being taught. (By the way, that last sentence requires pages of discussion.) And these formative changes take place within a set of outcomes. And, perhaps most importantly, they take place with spiritual directors, pastors, teachers and friends who come alongside to help a person.

The biggest issue here is not preaching; the biggest issue is the weight given to preaching in the overall mission of the local church. Emphasizing the weight of preaching is the Third Way.

All of this, of course, within the parameters of the work of God's Spirit through Word and Eucharist, which means respect for the Great Tradition of the Church. There is no Third Way preaching until we get beyond the Sunday morning service as the primary form of education and formation in the church. [Emphasis added]

The whole concept of spiritual formation in the western church seems to be centred around the sermon. My friend, John Frye, in the comments on Scot's post says, People expect the sermon to be the magic bullet for personal and family transformation.

Another good friend of mine who lives in the midwest, once led a thriving youth ministry which saw hundreds of kids profess their faith in Christ. When my friend asked the senior pastor how they were going to disciple these kids, this "pastor" stated they just needed to come hear him preach on Sundays and Wednesday nights. Would that this "pastor" be one of a kind. He's not.

Imbi was recently in discussion with a friend who had seen a woman in her late 30's become a Christian. His profound lament was that he did not know a church or ministry in Toronto where this woman could become properly grounded in her faith - where people (who have an expectation of outcomes - see Scot above) would work with her to see her established in the faith whilst they walked along side of her. She is hearing good sermons on Sunday mornings though.

It may be a start but it's not enough.

UPDATE: Jim has a good response at Scot's post (comment #9) - delivered in his usual irenic, winsome style.

UPDATE 2: Read Tim Sokell's comment/rant in my previous post, Drive-By Church - it fits rather well with this one.

I was just reading John Armstrong's blog. He's talking a bit about Robert Schuller and referred to Schuller starting his drive-in church. Except my brain is a tad cloudy today (with a chance of showers). I read drive-by church.

Which led me to thinkin'.

What about it?

Drive-by Church™

(I think there's a book in here somewhere. Someone call my agent.)

BTW. As I mentioned on FB. I have the mental acuity of a vervet monkey today.

Andrew Jones and his family are on a European/North African missional journey and can use our support.

He is one of those brilliant church leaders who is also decidedly down to earth and approachable. (I have an image of Graham walking down The Danforth with my sons on either side of him, completely engrossed in their conversation with him and he with them. Not your average Anglican Bishop as this video shows.)

Part One of this interview is available here with more background information and links. Part Two features a couple of great examples of Fresh Expressions of Church - one from a high Anglican perspective and the other, low church.

FX Canada Interview w/ Graham Cray Part II from Bill Kinnon on Vimeo.

This video is part of a series of videos that Imbi and I have produced on Missional Church. A widget is available here that you can embed in your blog that will be updated with new videos from the Missional Channel on Vimeo.

Stetzer & Fitch - a missional conversation - Part III from Bill Kinnon on Vimeo.

Title Update borrowed from Brad Brisco.

Setting up movie theaters to project the graven-image of rock-star, celebrity pastors across the United States has some long-term implications.
Ed Stetzer @ 1:01

He must increase. I must decrease.

Prompted by this story, and this one.

More later.

Ry is brilliant (Dean's list - I'm not just bragging), funny, very musical (drums, keys, vocals, harmonies, recording engineering) & still winning arguments (with us still, occasionally, reverting to the argument above).

The shot below is from a gig he and his older brother, Liam, did two years ago - their band, Substance Over Style. Rylan, Liam and their younger sister, Kaili have a new band with the intriguing name, Kinnon - more to be heard about them at a later date.

Rylan is in his final year of his undergrad at Victoria College, University of Toronto.

His mother and I are very proud of him and thankful for what God has done and is doing in Ry's life.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, RYLAN!

Graham, and his beautiful wife Jackie (an Anglican rector), were in Toronto for Wycliffe's ReFresh conference in the early summer and Imbi and I shot a conversation with Graham and Wycliffe's Annette Brownlee talking about the launch of Fresh Expressions Canada.

Graham was one of the people behind the Mission-shaped Church document that led to the creation of Fresh Expressions in the UK - a partnership between the Anglican Church of England, the Methodist Church and the wider UK church community. Early this year, Graham became team leader of Fresh Expressions.

In Part I of the interview, Bishop Cray talks about the history of FX, it's application in the North American context and the monetary costs of creating a local fresh Expression of Church. The interview is introduced by Nick Brotherwood, FX Canada's Team Leader (and all round good guy).

Andrew Jones - emerging, missional conspirator from Bill Kinnon on Vimeo.

I can't speak highly enough of my friend, Andrew Jones. The French phrase, joie de vivre comes to mind when I think of Andrew. And though I have yet to meet the rest of the Jones clan, I can only assume that joy infects the entire family.

Andrew is a missional conspirator. (Conspire = to breath together.) And he inspires those he meets and works with to both live and share the gospel - in a winsome manner.

Like many missionary families who live by faith, the Jones Family has been rather severely impacted by the global recession. Giving is way down. This morning Andrew issued an urgent appeal for support on his blog. Would you join us in supporting the important missional endeavour the Jones Family is engaged in? Please.

Jonny says,

i often get asked what i think of pete's work and usually respond by saying that i love having his voice in the conversation but it's not the only voice i want to hear. i loved the book how not to speak of god. but this conversation reminds me a little bit of the book nation of rebels: why counter culture became consumer culture which makes a powerful critique that the over against rhetoric of liberals who talk a good game round the dinner table about the evils of the system and overcoming it are not the people who effect real change in society. it's the people who have engaged in the public square, engaged in civil rights marches and so on - often long slow painful processes - who have done more. on reading that book i was challenged to think that actually being alternative is a poor strategy for change... (emphasis added)

Sudworth commenting on Kester Brewin's Christians as Pirates attempted meme, says,

What I sense in Kester's piece on piracy, and indeed in Pete Rollins' publications, is a de-centred viewpoint. Both are keen to articulate a place from the periphery that is "unorthodox", "heretical" or "piratical", in their terms. I'm reminded of Alasdair MacIntyre's assessment of contemporary society which has lost any sense of objective morality or authority; one that is working with the "fragments" of moral traditions. The arguments are pieced together, magpie-like, from sociology, philosophy, contemporary culture, with the occasional leitmotif of scripture (I won't even begin a critique of the cod-populist vision of Jesus the de-bunker of Jewish tradition, the anti-authoritarian on a mission that is all about correcting the wrong road of Judaism that Kester offers!). But this de-centred moral perspective forgets the one essential lesson of postmodernity: that all our standpoints are situated; there is no "view from nowhere".

What I feel I am left with if I'm to take seriously "the fidelity of betrayal" and a "plea for Christian piracy", is a moral vision centred on the individual and thus a "theology" that is yet another rotten fruit of modernity, (there are times when I wonder whether I should read this material acknowledging a wink and tongue-in-cheek at the hyperbole, but the gravitas afforded published books, my experience of their persuasiveness amongst Christians and the earnest hopes of the project (?) suggest I should be treating them seriously!). Kester and Pete are in danger of articulating something that is always and intrinsically "over and against" (the "empire" of the church). So where is it? Kester poses the question "what should we think of the Somali pirates", suggesting the global geopolitics of western oppression might give an alternative vision of who the real baddies are. Well, if you ask a poor Somali woman whose children have been killed by the Somali warlords growing rich on the piracy (for that is yet another side of the story), the answer would be a no-brainer. The point is that there is a coherent moral vision to be applied, inescapably, and we practice that moral vision in community and in our tradition. What i would describe as "an ecclesiology of iconoclism" is in fact licence for the individualism and self-referencing that i know Pete and Kester would otherwise disdain. The example of the shift from "pirate radio to BBC" and "Napster to Spotify" betray more than a whiff of the romance of the new, the trendy and the latest: a vision of consumerist heaven confirming my suspicions?

In the comments on Sudworth's post, Jason Clark adds,

I remember reading a well-known emerging-church blogger who wrote an autobiographical piece on why he had left his church. He described how the members of the church drove in their cars past the poor, the homeless and drug addicts, on their way to spending their money on putting on a Sunday worship service, having bypassed the needs around them.

It was enough for him, showing how the people of his church had failed to engage with the poor, to justify the leaving of his church. He had taken 'action' against the failings of his church community.

I did wonder why the author was unable to stop himself on the way to the service, why had he not tried to minister and invite the other members of his community to serve the poor with him.

Perhaps then something amazing and truly revolutionary could have taken place instead.

And beyond romanticizing ourselves as pirates, we know that real pirates do not form a life with others, but conquer, control, steal, loot, pillage, and bends all things towards their own ends and self creation, controlling others with fear and intimidation.

I confess a profound weariness with the kool kids who want to blow up the present church to create what - a groovy new way of doing church? Who spend more time dancing with the words of Foucault, whilst wearing Lyotard's - than struggling with St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 13.

But then I see something like this - via @lensweet on Twitter. The Horner Homemaking House.

"Having a facility that truly models the home environment will allow students to put into practice the foundational principles learned in the classroom.This is an exciting and practical way to impact a future generation of families in a way no other conservative theological institution can," Terri Stovall, dean of women's programs, says.

It is only the healthy fear of the strong Estonian-Canadian woman I am married to that prevents me from writing words of which Patrol Magazine completely approves. You have got to be kidding me! A Homemaking House. This isn't a "conservative theological institution," it's a white bread, lost-in-the-50's school that has confused American Consumerism with the church. God help us all.

Both stories remind me of Imbi's favourite lyric from a Bruce Cockburn song, The Trouble with Normal is it Always Gets Worse. And the normal at both ends of the Church conversation just seems to get worse.

The last word goes to Sudworth,

What story are we a part of? If we own the Christian story, we have a responsibility to bless and be blessed by the whole church; to challenge and be challenged by the whole church. There is truth and there is authority; we just don't have the complete take on what that truth and authority is.

Bob Hyatt has some fun with my previous post - a response to his two recent Out of Ur posts - There Is NO Virtual Church 1 & 2.

In his response he points to the Perry Noble video (also discussed @ Out of Ur) where Perry goes off on those leaders who would dare express concern about Video Venues (and, by extension, "Internet Church" one might reasonably suppose.)

Perry's argument is basically, 'I have a big church. You don't. Since size is proof of God's favor, shut up.' Pure power pragmatism - the engine that drives much of the Western Church. (UPDATE: Read my friend Dan's post on Perry's video.)

Bob then decides to add a bit more fuel to the discussion's fire and says,

...here's where I'll go ahead and tick off the other side of the spectrum.

Me and my buddies sitting around the firepit in my backyard is not church either - absent things like praying together, teaching the Word to one another, the sacraments, some sense of accountability and discipline, biblical eldership (and many other things)...

What I'm saying is that it's easy to look at the internet church and call it lacking and silly. Shooting fish in a barrel.

But I think the "de-churched" movement makes the same exact mistakes (albeit in a less technophile way) and just doesn't see it.

What follows is most of my response from the comment section of Bob's post.

As to shooting fish in a barrel, I hate fish but I will comment on the de-churched.

At one level, if one is a believer in Jesus Christ, it is impossible to be de-churched. It is possible, however to be De-Institutionally Churched. (And yes, we will avoid the acronym for that.)

Most of the folk I know who have walked away from the Institutional Church had been leaders therein and were rather badly hurt in their experiences. The "Not EVEN Virtual Church" of their experience left them profoundly gun-shy on one hand, and craving something a little closer to what they saw promised in the New Testament. (Though thankfully, the NT is full of problematic expressions of church as it tells God's story of real people.)

Relationships across fire pits where conversation continues into the wee hours of the morning, speaking of the things of God with wounded brothers and sisters who hunger for a holistic Gospel is a lot closer to a "virtual church" than is the consumer-driven model of much, if not most of the church in the West. (As the graphic says: Virtual = almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition.)

Focus on the Sunday morning service, on the primary importance of the preaching/teaching surrounded by great music, entertaining children's ministry and good coffee for the 30 minutes folk hang around after the service (in deep hunger for actual relationships) has turned the Western church into a deliverer of feel good infotainment built around effective pulpiteers (or at least those attempting to be).

As our friend, Dave Fitch says,

I fully grant that good teaching is necessary and it feeds the soul. (I regularly defend the 9 a.m. communal teaching hour at our church as essential.) Certainly consistent doctrinal exposition of texts is important on an interpersonal dialogical level in a smaller class room type setting. Unfortunately in larger arenas, the retention rate is next to nil from week to week. Good charismatic (entertaining?) preaching soothes the soul as opposed to feeds the soul. It can become a consumer item, even if it is expository preaching. Under these conditions, Christians, who are told to connect to the local church for the sake of their discipleship (as opposed to being part of a politic of mission in the world) - will naturally gravitate towards the most exciting preacher. They will leave the previous church because “I wasn’t getting fed.” For the small community churches of modernity therefore, whose members are graying, who are seeking new and younger members to replenish the dying saints, they must compete for the remainders of Christendom by presenting the Bible in as compelling and entertaining a way as they can muster. To those who can’t compete, they are in a quandary. (emphasis added)

Perry Noble's position on this is simply the logical place to be - based on what he's been taught the Western Church looks like. He's used the Hybels-Warren-Young Jr. model to build a big enterprise with lots of happy-clappy butts in the seats. The fact that the community has not changed dramatically around said enterprise does not even enter into the picture.

It's not about Luke 10 - it's about moving from Good to Great. And Perry would tell you he's done that - and from his perspective, I daresay he has.

The conversation continues here and @ Bob's Blog.

The first is the screening of Manufactured Landscapes on September 24 at the Ignatieff Theatre, Trinity College, University of Toronto. Jennifer Baichwal, the award-winning director of the film will be there for an audience Q&A afterwards led by the very engaging Professor Stephen Sharper. The entire Kinnon family will be in attendance (with some Medri's thrown in for good measure) along with a number of other interesting folk. I look forward to seeing you there, too.

Then on the 30th, my friend, Ed Stetzer is in town for a Church Revitalization event that Darryl Dash has put together. You don't need to be a Fellowship Baptist to attend (at least I don't think so, grin) and it will be more than worth your time to hear Ed - who is a New Yorker and married to a Canadian - context won't be an issue.