NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Becca Benning

Hello, thank you for joining me. I hope you're having a great week. What comes to mind when you think about the word diet? What about gluten-free? Dairy-free. Sugar-free.
When you have an autoimmune disorder, these are all things you've probably looked at and possibly dreaded. And I hear you. When I was diagnosed, everybody was talking about what to eat. I mean, they still are. What do you eat? What don't you eat? What helps your Ms. And there's always some pretty big changes that are thrown around. I had the added bonus when I was diagnosed of having a checkered past with my relationship with food and dieting, just in general.
And I was not looking forward to adding all of that drama together to drastically change my diet. Especially since I didn't really know what I was doing. That's where today's guest comes in. I wish I knew someone like her back when I was first diagnosed, things would have been a lot easier. Becca Benning works with people living with an autoimmune condition diagnosed or not to help them with their dietary changes among other things. She uses the auto-immune protocol, but in a way that fits into a person's life. And ultimately finds what foods help and hurt each individual so that they can have a plan that decreases inflammation. And also supports their lifestyle. Her compassionate approach makes big changes seem much more doable, especially since she's doing all of this herself. Becca is living with multiple diagnoses, but it was after her multiple sclerosis diagnosis. That she dove into the world of Terry Walls and other dietary approaches to help heal her own symptoms. Saying that she feels better now in her late forties, as she ever has.
Becca says reincorporating foods back into someone's diet can be just as important as taking things out. And I am all for that. Please enjoy this week's episode. And visit Andrea Hanson, coaching.com for more. On Becca Benning. Resources we talk about in the show. And transcripts from today's episode. And you can find that link in the episode description.
[00:02:12] Andrea: Welcome to the Live Your Life, Not Your Diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker, and master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told I would never reach my goals, but I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view, and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds to inspire you to achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw, uncensored, and judgment free.
Listener discretion is advised.
I'm here with Becca Bening. Becca supports people with autoimmune issues diagnosed or not to design and implement realistic lifestyle and dietary changes to reduce inflammation and get their spark back. She has several autoimmune and other chronic conditions herself, including multiple sclerosis.
Having taken her trajectory from increasing disability to cumulative improvement, she is a passionate advocate of the power of small steps and self compassion in creating meaningful positive impact, whatever health changes a person may be facing. Becca, welcome so much.
[00:03:38] Becca: Thank you so much for having
[00:03:39] Andrea: me, it's great.
I am so glad to be talking with you. We were talking a little bit before we started. There are so many common things that we believe, even though I feel like your focus is a lot more on the body, a lot more with nutrition, and my focus obviously is with mindset, but they still have such common through lines of, compassion and giving yourself permission to, you know, let go of the reins sometimes that we're holding on to a little bit too tightly and just allow ourselves and not be so angry.
I think we can get angry at our bodies, especially with autoimmune disorders because they're literally our bodies are attacking ourselves, but also your mind can feel like it's attacking you because you have these negative thoughts and sometimes they feel like you can't really stop them or control
[00:04:27] Becca: them.
Absolutely. And it would be great to choose to not have them, but we don't always have that option.
[00:04:33] Andrea: I think the option comes from choosing how we deal with it. I think that's where our options are. That's where that control is.
[00:04:41] Becca: Absolutely. We can choose how we respond to the situation that we're in. We haven't got control over everything.
But we still have choices.
[00:04:47] Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. And there, I think there's tremendous power in that for sure. Even sometimes it feels like we don't have choices and it just takes a little bit of reminding like, no, we can choose how we want to see this. We can choose how we react to this. We can choose what lifestyle changes that we make.
[00:05:02] Becca: Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot more choice than we feel like we have at so many points along the way. When you get told that you have some incurable thing, you know, it feels like a huge amount of your choice has been taken away. Yeah.
[00:05:16] Andrea: Absolutely. I want to start by talking a little bit about you and your background.
You've got, there's so many things about you that I want to talk about, but you started in teaching with little, little ones.
[00:05:32] Becca: Yes. Very little ones. So I was one of those people who likes being in a room full of tiny children. So kind of a reception, we call it in the UK. So it's. It's the four and five year olds and it's nursery I would work in a bit sometimes too, but it's the really getting the children into the mindset that school and learning is a place of excitement and that it is for them.
Like they are welcome and they can access anything. They have the right to kind of explore and learn and how kind of thrilling that is. So it's a super opportunity because if you get them. at that point, then even if they have a bit of a rough time at some stage in school later on, which most of us will at some point, if they've got the inherent idea that school is a place for excitement and learning, and that it is for them, that they are welcome and included and cared for in that environment, then that will, that will tide them through so much later on.
So it was, goodness, it was a job that I absolutely loved. And that totally ran me into the ground at the same time.
[00:06:39] Andrea: When I was in school, my master's was for early childhood disorders. And so I worked with the little, little kids. This was more focused on zero to three, but I did work with kids up to age five.
But it's that idea of, Um, being able to really set them up for success. And when, you know, when we were working with kids, they were with Down syndrome and you know, autism and a lot of things like that. It was really about setting them up for that inclusion and helping them. I mean, it was just, and kids are just like the ultimate,
[00:07:16] Becca: there's so much, there's no filter and there's so much.
joy and the curiosity that they approach everything in life with, and they'll just ask you. Like, if they want to know, they'll just, even if it's a really rude question by an adult standards, they'll just come straight out with it. And I find that so refreshing and there would not be a day that went by where I wouldn't laugh, you know, and be able to play.
And that's just so joyful.
[00:07:42] Andrea: Yeah. I love watching it because. Even though, like, my kiddos that I worked with had some, some of them had some pretty major challenges, they didn't necessarily see themselves as being totally different from everybody. They didn't have that worry. They were just focused on their challenges and how they can overcome them and whatever capacity they had.
And it was just, it was so great.
[00:08:09] Becca: And especially when they're so young, when you're talking about those really little ones, they don't have that kind of self consciousness yet. And I mean, I worked with classes where there were children that had various different kinds of stuff going on and it was just, they brought a richness is what I felt into the classroom because it was a kind of gorgeous texture of inclusion for everyone.
Like this, this classroom is a place for everyone and all of the other kids learn so much from the kids who were different to them. Mm hmm. In whatever way.
[00:08:41] Andrea: And, you know, here we are as adults, and I feel like so many people, and I love that so many people are talking about inclusion as adults, and I'm like, if you just look at how kids do it,
[00:08:53] Becca: Yeah.
You'd realize. They'd just hold out their hand and go, do you want to be my friend?
[00:08:57] Andrea: Yeah. Simple. And it sounds so Pollyanna, but it really isn't. Like that's really kind of how it goes when you're working with those little ones. And it's just, hopefully one day we'll continue that on and through adulthood.
[00:09:10] Becca: Yeah, there's so much to learn from the way that kids go about stuff. They're just, yeah, I miss that bit. I miss the spending time with the children. I don't miss the admin.
[00:09:20] Andrea: Oh, I know. Yeah, the forms. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. I did a lot of the testing and so it was just a lot of those TPS reports for sure.
So what made you leave teaching?
[00:09:35] Becca: It was health stuff. So really I was... I'd always had health stuff going on, so I was sort of used to it. It was my normal, that there was always kind of some stuff going on. But then I got my MS diagnosis while I was still teaching, and I thought for a while, I was just like, okay, I'm just going to keep going, because that's, you know, that's what we do.
But then one day in my classroom, I just, it hit me, and I can't, I need to look after myself now, because Everything's changed actually much as I thought I could keep going just because that's what we do. It's not enough, and it's too, I can't risk what I'm risking working at this level of stress now that I really need to be able to take care of myself because it just, it's not a job where I felt like I could stop for long enough to even really sort of, take in what was happening.
You mean
[00:10:33] Andrea: like physically stuff, like because it was just such a go,
[00:10:36] Becca: go, go. Yeah. And it was sort of physically and emotionally exhausting, just the kind of the pressure and the relentlessness and the fact of taking work home every day and getting to the holidays and it being fairly standard to get sick.
Like with some sort of flu y, cold y, like I'd lose my voice regularly. I would, you know, every time the holidays hit and I actually did stop, my body would go like, oh, and just kind of give up. And I could see that that was. It was too big of a risk to keep doing that, because I thought I can't put myself under this pressure anymore.
So I thought that leaving my job would fix everything. Right.
[00:11:16] Andrea: Yes. Yes, because it was the job that caused everything.
[00:11:20] Becca: Yeah, because it was, but you know, it was a different kind of stress to the jobs that I'd had before that. I'd worked in the clothing industry before that, so it was high pressure, but without being, it didn't matter as much.
And so I thought, if I'm going to be stressed, I'll be stressed for a good reason. So I went and became a teacher. I was like, oh, brilliant. That's a great idea. But yeah, so I kind of, I decided, I remember the day in my classroom when I suddenly thought, you know what, I can't, I can't stay here. And so I, somebody came in and found me sitting on a table in my classroom crying, which sadly is quite normal in a lot of schools.
So nobody was surprised. Yeah. Yeah. So I just kind of. Um, needed to take some time out. So I just kind of went and sort of thought I need to, I need to just stop completely and think now.
[00:12:09] Andrea: How did you stop everything? Did you just walk away? What would, what did that look like when you stopped
[00:12:13] Becca: and thought about that?
I slowed down. My schools were actually so supportive when I was, because obviously there's a right, you don't get an MS diagnosis out of the blue stuff happens for a while before that happens. So I had had some issues. that had been going on for over a year. And so both of the schools that I'd worked in in that time, because I'd actually relocated during that period of time.
So, which might have been slightly stressful, but you know,
[00:12:37] Andrea: it's like the number one stressor is moving, right? Yeah.
[00:12:40] Becca: Yeah. But I, both of the schools were really supportive. So I was able to take a step back from kind of working the really long hours and being in class and doing the kind of more physically exhausting stuff.
And I was kind of quite well supported to. take a little bit of a step back, but still, I was within the school environment with a view to going back into the classroom. So that was never going to quite cut it. So in the end, when, once I decided that I was going to need to leave, then I did come out of class once they'd found somebody to replace me.
And I did a kind of bit of a chunk of time where I was kind of rounding everything up and doing a lot of admin stuff. And then I left. And I was due to get married that year. So I left in the February and I was getting married in the summer. So I just, I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I was like, you know what, I'm just not going to take on anything else.
I'm just going to deal with that. And that's going to be it for
[00:13:28] Andrea: now. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of high stressors just right in a row, moving, changing jobs, getting married, even if it's for the best, those are still really high stress things. And as we know, stress. And subsequently getting sick with a lot of different things that you always, you know, that you get from the kiddos, both of those things really set off autoimmune responses.
And it's
[00:13:53] Becca: all going in the same bucket. We've only got one from an evolutionary point of view, we've got one stress response. So whether it's the stress of a physical illness or the stress of emotional stuff or the stress of moving, it's all going in the same bucket from our body's perspective. So it's all adding.
you know, just kind of pouring more and more in there when what I needed was to get a bigger bucket and take some stuff out.
[00:14:16] Andrea: Yeah. So what did you decide to do next? Like what did that help you do when you start, you know, you stopped your job and you got married and you changed your environment and you took a
[00:14:27] Becca: minute.
Yeah, it did allow me to think and it allowed me to kind of, I was still in a certain level of denial about the actual. Kind of situation that I was in, I was still thinking that, well, I've left my job now, so that's, I've dealt with the big stressor, so I should be able to just carry on now. So I need a bit of time to sort of recover from teaching, but then once I've done that, I can kind of regroup and decide what I'm going to do next.
But I mean, what it did enable actually, as a fairly, I got married in the summer and we had been trying to have a baby for quite some time unsuccessfully and. I was pregnant by the January, the following January, and I'm still to this day convinced that if I hadn't left teaching at that point, that would not have happened.
[00:15:17] Andrea: Because the stress was also affecting Yeah. Your ability to get pregnant?
[00:15:20] Becca: Yeah. Yeah. And there are so many teachers with fertility issues. So many.
[00:15:26] Andrea: Yeah. I wouldn't doubt that. So from that moment, what did you decide to do when you said, I'm just going to de stress, I'm going to, you know. get my thoughts together, get my, you know, my feathers in order after teaching.
And then you had your daughter, is that right? Yes, that's
[00:15:49] Becca: right. So she, yeah. So pregnancy, I was actually able to focus on having A healthy pregnancy because I didn't take on anything else major. I was doing some kind of small bits and pieces of, of admin work from home, which was fine. And it fitted around that focus perfectly.
So I was able to kind of exercise and take it slowly. And I was getting stronger through the course of my pregnancy, which is relatively unusual. And so that kind of went really pretty well. And I was. And of course there's the whole thing with MS and pregnancy where they say that your relapse activity will go down during pregnancy because your immune system is kind of standing down so that you don't reject the baby.
And then there's the increased risk of a relapse after the baby's born. So there's a fair amount of apprehension to deal with around
[00:16:43] Andrea: that. Were you more accepting of, okay, I have MS, this is what it means, or were you still kind of like, ah, it's fine? I was.
[00:16:51] Becca: I mean, the thing is, I had seen other people with MS, it is in my family, so I had seen kind of relatively close family members dealing with it and having a pretty rough time.
So I think that was a piece of my, kind of like, I'm just going to keep going. I can't kind of let this big, scary. version of what this situation could be. I can't let that in because then I felt like the wheels were just going to fall off everything and I was going to lose the plot completely. It wasn't something that I could allow myself to entertain.
I was being practical though. I was kind of looking at the future and thinking, well, I, you know, I need to accept the fact that I could be disabled at some point in the future. So when I'm making big decisions, I need to think about that.
[00:17:43] Andrea: After your pregnancy, did you have a big relapse or did any of that materialize?
I
[00:17:47] Becca: didn't. I didn't. And I, I mean, I say there may well have been small things that happened that I can't remember because that whole period is with a small baby. There's a degree of a blur that happens. So I felt Pretty good on the whole. There wasn't anything dramatic that happened. There were like minor things, but nothing major.
But then as time passed, so I was 38 when my daughter was born, and then it was in my... The big shift happened when I was nearly 40. Because I was in a neurology review, so I was having my annual meeting with my consultant and he said that I was on a trajectory of increasing disability because I wasn't fully recovering in between relapses, so it was a decline.
So we talked about what I could potentially do, so I was being kind of lined up for all of the appointments that I needed to be assessed for various different medications and things like that. And. It got me thinking about something that I had kind of filed away, which I had seen quite a long time before, but not really been ready for, which was a TEDx talk by a doctor who has MS called Dr.
Terry Wahls. You may be familiar. Very. Yeah. And so I went back to revisit her talk and I kind of thought, you know what? Maybe I can do something. So maybe this. Something that I can change for myself. For
[00:19:20] Andrea: people who don't know, although I don't know, I feel like there's not many who don't. Terry Wahls is a doctor.
She has progressive MS, which means there's different types of MS. Progressive is where it's just, there's no backing out of the relapse. It's just further and further progressive relapsing. And she was, I think at the point where she couldn't walk, like I don't, I think she was.
[00:19:47] Becca: She was in a tilt recline wheelchair, she couldn't even swallow
[00:19:50] Andrea: properly.
Yeah, couldn't, couldn't do anything. And long story short, developed, she calls it a protocol, the Wahls Protocol, and it's a way of eating to heal your mitochondria. That's her main area of research and what she found with MS and what really helps MS from her perspective. And she put herself on this protocol and I mean, I've met her, you would have no idea.
It's completely invisible at this point. And so it's something that a lot of people with MS and I would assume other autoimmune disorders as well are. It's a pretty hefty diet, I gotta
[00:20:29] Becca: say. It's no small
[00:20:31] Andrea: undertaking. It is not. Absolutely. It is not. I mean, when I talked to her, I mean, I met her at a conference that I talked to her and she, you know, she's like, some days I just take raw meat and throw it in the blender.
And it's like. Okay.
[00:20:42] Becca: Great. That's not a commitment that everybody can make. It is not.
[00:20:48] Andrea: But anyway, that is just an aside for those of you who don't know. I mean, she's got a very famous book about the Wahls Protocol and a TEDx that's really impressive. So, and I'll put that in the show notes so you guys can look at that.
So Terry Wahls, was it the diet specifically that you were looking at or was it just her story and the fact that you can come back
[00:21:09] Becca: from this? Yes. Yes. Because I had watched it before, as I said, and I just hadn't been ready to kind of take that level of responsibility myself at the point where I first saw it.
I was like, I can't really process that at this point. But by now, by the time I'm nearly 40 and I'm being told that I'm on this downward trajectory, I looked at it again and I just thought, You know what? There's stuff for me to learn here because I'm a, you know, I'm a teacher. I'm an all out geek for the learning.
So I was, you know, studying and learning is, is always something that I've been passionate about. And so I just kind of threw myself into learning about the dietary elements of what she did, but also researching similar sorts of protocols that existed and what kind of other people were doing and what kind of results people were seeing and just kind of what.
Other elements there might be beyond food because I did start with the food and I decided in the end that I was going to work through something called the autoimmune protocol because there's a lot of overlap with, I'm sure you know, there's a lot of overlap with the WALS protocol, but what appealed to me about it at the time was that it was aiming to broaden back out ultimately to kind of get me to a point where I was going to have the broadest possible diet, um, that was supportive of my health.
And so I thought that kind of, there was the reintroduction kind of process of testing things out. And I thought that was interesting. And I noticed as soon as I, but what the first things that I did were from the minding your mitochondria, TEDx talk, it was the kind of, if you're going to do one thing today, go gluten and dairy free today.
And so I did, I was like, right, okay, that I can do. I can handle that and I can try and eat loads more colourful fruits and vegetables. And so I had a mixed experience because it turned out that some of the things I was eating more of actually aren't great for me. They're really lovely and colourful, but my body doesn't like them very much.
So it was a kind of mixture of like, Oh, some things are definitely getting better. Like I can feel my digestion is different to the way it's ever been. And. There are also some things that are maybe not working. So I kind of fiddled around and I accidentally kind of gluten to myself a few times and realized how insanely gluten sensitive I am because I was just like, Oh, this is a really big problem for me because I had, there was a situation where I had a really minor gluten exposure essentially because I was trying to be polite in a situation where I wasn't, I wasn't far enough into have developed the way that I needed to talk about what I needed.
with other people, so I just kind of didn't want to say no to people, and I didn't want to be rude. And it was a really tiny bit of gluten exposure, and I lost a whole chunk of feeling in my leg for three months. Wow.
[00:23:55] Andrea: That's quite a reaction, for sure. I'm always curious about the mindset when... looking at the like, especially looking at diet and changing your diet.
Cause I know it's very rarely and maybe it was for you, but it's very rarely. So I just decided to go gluten free and dairy free and stop doing this. And I wasn't going to have sugar anymore and it was fine. Rarely is it like that?
[00:24:18] Becca: Yeah, no, it's not simple. It's not, there's no, I mean, you know, obviously for some people it can be for some people.
Sure. Straightforward. But I mean, those the rarities for most people, there's a huge amount of adjustment because it's just even going to a whole foods diet is so far from the way that most people eat because of the food environment that we live in. It's not because we're terrible people.
[00:24:42] Andrea: It's
[00:24:42] Becca: just the environment that we live in is designed to.
guide us towards certain choices. And so if you're trying to kind of swim against the current all the time, that takes quite a lot of effort.
[00:24:53] Andrea: It takes effort on your part just for, you know, looking at food in a way that you've never looked like. For me, when I started, I didn't do anything specific like that.
I was one of those people that I looked at the Wallace Protocol. I'm like, you're a lovely lady. You had some amazing things. There's no way in hell I'm going to put meat in a blender and I'm like, this is just not going to happen. And so I was always anti like diet because I mean, and it's a whole different story because I've always just had just bad results with diets, just a bad history with certain diets.
And so I was like, I'm not going to make it in this environment as well. But that's not to say I don't pay attention to what I'm eating and I don't pay attention to what's going on. And when you are starting to look at what's in foods and how many things that you think are healthy, really aren't healthy.
And it's like a deep dive into so many different worlds that you hadn't been in before. You're deep diving into just the, just sheer consumer world of food and the marketing and the lies that happen, not to be, not to be totally dramatic about it, but I mean, come on. And so it's like this deep dive into that whole world.
And then there's, you know, I had a whole relationship with food, apart from any of that, that I had to heal and had, you know, struggled with for a long time. And then on top of all that, if that's not hard enough, there's, You know, you don't live in a vacuum. You have other people. You've got your spouse, you have your family, you have your friends, you have anything.
And as lovely as they are, and I think as helpful as some of them try to be, there's a lot of the, oh, are you still gluten free? You know, like, and you go to a, you know, is this, you know, a medical thing or is it just a preference? And it's like, there's so much judgment coming from. And sometimes you are gluten free and sometimes you figure out like, well, maybe I can't have a little bit.
And sometimes you figure out, no, I actually have celiac and I cannot have any of this. And people get confused and it's just, it can be a whole thing.
[00:26:59] Becca: Yeah. It's so complex and it's, and all of the other people that you're dealing with as you're moving through this situation, their relationships with food are also complex and they're kind of, there's so many situations where people take, if you're doing something, which is kind of against the.
prevailing norm in any way, then other people start kind of going, Oh, but does that mean she thinks that I'm making terrible choices? And so, but don't we all belong to this same tribe that does things the same way? Doesn't that make us all safe? So please come back over here where we all feel like everything's fine.
[00:27:32] Andrea: Yes. Yeah. It is that safety. Yeah,
for
[00:27:35] Becca: sure. Yeah. And there's, as you say, the family thing is complicated because I was, I re like I said, I realized I was insanely gluten sensitive. And I was living in a house with my daughter, my husband and two stepchildren who were not in my house full time. So they were part time living with their mum and part time with us, but they were with us about half the time.
And so I felt initially I can't make them go gluten free because that's like, that's a step too far. They're just, you know, that's going to be too much of an upheaval for them. So I was. juggling all of this stuff and kind of getting continually exposed to gluten all the time, because it was in my kitchen.
And then I was eventually diagnosed as celiac. And then I was kind of like, ah, now I'm afraid the whole house is going to have to go gluten free. Sorry, everyone, but that's the way it's going to have to be. And it is, there is a real period of adjustment there, especially when. there are some people who are living a very different life in terms of the way that they eat.
So there's the kind of these people are doing this thing and then these people are doing this thing. So what do we do when we all come together?
[00:28:44] Andrea: Yeah. And you know, with something, especially something like gluten, it's been such an interesting thing to watch because I, and you also, I think, uh, I have been looking at gluten for a long, long time.
I can't remember when it was, maybe like when Terry Walls came out with her protocol, but that's, it's been a long time.
[00:29:04] Becca: The TED talk was in 2011. Yeah. And so
[00:29:08] Andrea: a lot of this stuff that we have been aware of, um, and by we, I mean, you know, those of us with autoimmune disorders that have been looking at our diet and things like that, we've been aware of gluten for a long time.
And then at some point there was like this. dietary lose weight by not eating gluten kind of a movement. And that just changed the whole dialogue about gluten. And I know I've, I've spoken to a lot of people with celiac where they, they think that is detrimental because it's changed how people react to you when you're like, you have to almost like plead your case.
Like,
[00:29:44] Becca: no, there's a justification element. No, I really need like, if you're going to cook anything for me, the kitchen needs to be clean. Yeah. Yeah. And stuff like that. There are so many people who are kind of finding out that they feel better when they don't eat gluten, but then they don't really know because they're like, yeah, I do feel better.
So I felt horrible. So I stopped eating gluten for a month and I felt better, but then, you know, now I feel fine. So it's back and it's fine. And for some people, like gluten isn't going to really hurt a hundred percent of people. Right. Yeah. So. It's not like everyone needs to ditch all gluten forever.
[00:30:19] Andrea: And I think it's one of those things where it's different.
Like the bread, for instance, that I can get, even like the best of breads, is very different than the bread that you can get over, you know, across the pond. It's just, it's made different. It's got different chemicals. It's got different things. And, and for some people, like for me, I'm, I'm one of those people who I'm like, 90 percent gluten free.
I don't have celiac. I feel better when I don't have it, but I don't have to like make sure my salad dressing doesn't have it. Right. I don't have to go to that level, thankfully. And if I have bread, like it's all right, I can tell in my body. If I've had like a sandwich, but it's not crazy.
Like if I had like a sandwich every single day, if I had a toast every single morning, that wouldn't be great. But it's just, you know, it's kind of like what you're talking about before where you can notice what works with your body, what doesn't work with your body. And then you can Broaden that out to make it more sustainable.
[00:31:15] Becca: And one of the things I love about what you're saying is that you're talking about making an informed and conscious choice because you know that you don't want to choose to eat something like that every single day because you know it won't make you feel good. But sometimes you know the way that it's going to impact you and the way that you will feel afterwards and sometimes it's worth it and it's completely fine.
And it's like, there's no police that are going to come and tell you that you're not allowed to have this, that or the other, you know, it's up to you. And it's just, it's so powerful to know and to learn. Like the whole process that I've been through, the thing that I love the most about it is the self knowledge that you get about not just food, but about all of the things that are the linchpin things for you, which are going to be different to the linchpin things for me.
So these are the habits that I need to maintain consistently, not necessarily every single day. you know, the majority of the time, certain things need to look a certain way. So like, I need X amount of sleep as a bare minimum. So I go, I don't really do late nights apart from perhaps once a year in the same way, because it's just not worth it to me anymore.
But when it comes down to my sister's birthday, that's worth it because it matters to her. And it's a, you know, it's an important thing for us to spend time together. So that's one occasion every year where I will make an exception. And I just, I know that I have to spend a certain amount of time recovering.
After that, because I've had one night of not inset. It's not like I'm going out drinking until four in the morning or something. I'm just going to bed a little bit later than usual. But I can feel the impact of that because my system is sensitive and I know that so I can make an informed choice.
Whereas people kind of invite me to do things that might be going on late. And a lot of the time I'm just going to say, I'm sorry, I'm not going to do that. But I'd love to see you in the daytime.
[00:33:04] Andrea: Yeah, it's funny. I'm like that. My husband's like that, too. He doesn't have an autoimmune disorder or anything like that.
He's just, for a long time, he had a job that started really, really early in the morning. And so he just got into it and he, you know, he was raised in a military family. And so he's just all about early bedtime, early rising. And It's a beautiful thing. My friends all think I'm super totally boring. They're like, Oh, you want to come out?
Oh, wait, that'll start at nine though. So you probably won't want to. And I'm like, Nope.
[00:33:33] Becca: But isn't it glorious because my sleep was horrendous for most of my life. And I mean, when I was a teacher, I would. Sleep, because I was so exhausted that I would conk out, but it wasn't good quality sleep. I didn't wake up feeling refreshed.
But now, my sleep is just, it actually, like, I'm awake awake in the day, and I'm tired when I'm supposed to go to sleep, and I fall asleep within, you know, a relatively short amount of time when I get into bed, and I wake up at the same time every day, whether I remember to put my alarm on or not. Yeah. And I've got like, it just feels so different to the way that my sleep was before and it's glorious.
I love it.
[00:34:12] Andrea: Yeah. A good sleep. There's nothing better. And I, and it's interesting, you know, you kind of touched on it before with, you know, that bucket of stress and what's going on. And, and a lot of times we are in, or we have been in that chronic stress situation, like with the job or with our health or with whatever it is.
There's, like you said, there's so many things that go into that bucket. And when that bucket is full and you get an amount of sleep, it is like that, I had to crash because my body was just literally powering down, like shut down. And it's a different quality. And then if you are, you know, emptying that stress bucket and not under chronic stress because yes, it is possible to not live in chronic stress all the time.
And when you get to that baseline, things like rest and recovery and sleep impact you so much differently.
[00:35:05] Becca: Because that gorgeous window that we have while we're sleeping for all the healing, the deep stuff to happen that our bodies are trying to do. And if we're not sleeping properly, then we're, it's in the way of that being able to happen, regardless of like, it doesn't matter what you eat, if you're not getting any good quality sleep, there's going to be real limitations around what your body can do with what you're giving it.
Whereas if you're able to, so it's very easy sometimes for people to get really kind of very heavily focused on diet when they kind of discover that they do have the power to do something about their own autoimmune issues, but it's so it's actually. So much more than that. Like I tend to in the work that I do with people, the nutritional stuff often naturally comes last.
Because there are multiple other things that if these things are not functional, then there's going to be a limit to how far you can get with the nutrition
[00:35:55] Andrea: stuff. Yeah. You talk about having your five pillars of health and not only are they five pillars, but they are in order. And I thought that was really interesting.
[00:36:04] Becca: Yeah. No, the order that I tend to talk about is first of all, stress management. And then sleep. So because those two are so interconnected, because if you're stressed, you don't sleep, and if you're not sleeping, that's another stressor. So it's just going round and round and round. And so working on both of those at the same time is super powerful, as I'm sure you know, because it's like you're changing that into a virtuous cycle.
stress cycle where the good or any little positive impact that you have on your sleep is relieving stress. And anything that you do to relieve stress genuinely, so to either remove some stresses from your life or to improve your capacity to deal with them, the ones that you can't do anything about at this point, that's going to enable you to sleep better.
So they're just going to be kind of feeding off each other in a positive way. One that really often gets overlooked is social connection. And I think there's a huge impact when people feel isolated with, and with chronic health problems, just that fact on its own can be so isolating, can't it? And so, just acknowledging that.
and kind of helping people to think about what does your support network look like, really? Like, who is in your life that you can turn to? And don't expect one person in your life to meet every single need that you have, because some of us are in that situation where it feels like that's all we've got.
But it's worth branching out beyond that and thinking about, you know, let's not put everything on this one person because that's too much for them. And it's a recipe for disappointment for us. And it just puts too much strain on that relationship. So then where can we kind of reach out and connect with other people that might be able to provide different kinds of interaction and support?
And it doesn't have to be someone that you're able to talk to about your deepest, darkest feelings. It might be just someone to go and see for a cup of tea or even someone to kind of, there's a park behind my house where I go for a walk every morning. And there are so many people who say good morning to me.
I've no idea what half of their names are because I don't know them, but they will smile and say good morning. And sometimes just that. Being in the same place as other people and exchanging a greeting can be enough to make you feel that bit connected and then you feel that bit more resilient and kind of strengthened to enable you to move into, so the last two pillars are movement.
Because I don't call it exercise because it's not about the exercise bit. It's about kind of how can, especially when there are sometimes limitations around movements, it's about how can you move more during the day in a way that works for you. It's not about kind of where can you fit in a 75 minute workout, because that's not the priority, frankly.
[00:38:53] Andrea: 75 minute, that's adorable.
[00:38:57] Becca: So, and then comes nutrition, because if you've got. It doesn't mean you have to have all those other four completely sorted out before you even think about diet, but it means that you can build yourself the most amazing foundation if you do little things in all of those four areas to then give you the resources that you need to be able to then start to make some changes in your diet and for it not to feel like such hard work.
[00:39:22] Andrea: Yeah. I'm a big supporter of doing things in somewhat of a methodical way, because I feel like if you just take a bunch of stuff and cause, and I understand, especially when you're first diagnosed, especially when you're looking at maybe a flare up or something and you just want to do something. I have to do all the things because I have to get myself out of this.
But when you take five things and you do them all at once, You don't know what's working. You don't know what's not working. You might have, you know, these convoluted results where something might be working, but you don't realize it's not, it's working because you've got something else that's confounding the whole thing.
And, and so I'm a big, I'm a big supporter of doing things. where you can lay that basic foundation, like just little things and getting that. So it's like, okay, your sleep is good. So now your nutrition is going to be a little bit better because when you don't get proper sleep, that affects our hunger single signals.
It affects how we, in fact, the type of food that we are attracted to a, and just a basic level. And, and so I think it's really smart that Start with things that are I'm not going to say easy because I've, I, you know, took on the battle of figuring out my sleep and it's not an easy one. It's not easy. No, it's not
[00:40:38] Becca: easy.
And so that's why I think it's key to give yourself permission to do it slowly. Yes. And to take small steps in the direction of where you, not to feel like you have to kind of, Like, to do today, sort out, sleep, tick, it's not, you know, that's not a thing. So we all need to be able to go, it's okay to just do one thing and to feel like all the other things that we know are less than perfect, because perfect is not
[00:41:04] Andrea: real.
It's not. It's not real, it's not attainable, it's not helpful.
[00:41:08] Becca: Yeah, but what we can do is we can point ourselves in a direction that we feel good about and take one small step, then you're one step closer than you were. And if we can keep, and then you can allow yourself the time that you need before you're ready to take your next step.
And it's, so what it looks like varies for everyone because it depends where you're at and what kind of resources you've got to work with. Because if you're really at rock bottom,
[00:41:33] Andrea: it's rough. It is rough. And sometimes it's that one step is that's it. That's your day is the one step. And then you're, you're done until the next day.
But I think the beautiful thing about taking it like that is it allows consistency. Hmm. To me, that is the key, right? We can make all these certain changes, but if we're not consistent with anything, it's not going to, you know, those results are not going to compound. Right. It's like the compounding is Yeah.
Interest that we have in our, in our accounts. Right. It's,
[00:42:03] Becca: yeah. You don't get the snowball of good. You don't, if you can't, if you overload yourself Exactly. And with so many things that you can't hold
[00:42:09] Andrea: onto them. Yeah. And so if you're doing it in that slow, methodical way, It helps the consistency and that's when you can have those aha moments, I think.
They don't necessarily come from one meal where you don't eat gluten. It came from like a couple meals and then all of a sudden accidentally having it. And those were tiny little steps along the way. And then it led to like this huge, this huge aha. And I think that goes with a lot of different lifestyle changes.
[00:42:38] Becca: Yeah. It's definitely the cumulative, all of the, because I mean, I'm now at a point, I'm in my late forties now and I'm the strongest I've ever been in my life. That is absolutely down to the cumulative effect of lots of small things. There are some big choices that I made within that, obviously, but it's actually where the magic is, is in the small things that I do over and over and over again.
And they feel good. And that is motivating and I've taught my brain that I can. So
[00:43:08] Andrea: in this journey, and I always joke that I, I hate the word journey, but I use it all the time because it's just kind of works. So in this journey where you went from hearing that news from your doctor that you're on this trajectory that you clearly didn't want to be on all the way until now, what part of that are you most.
proud of yourself for doing. What part of that do you look back and think, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that.
[00:43:37] Becca: Oh, that's interesting. I think it's actually kind of accepting that I could take responsibility for how I felt because we're so, and I mean in the UK, especially with the kind of situation that we have with the national health service and things like that, there's a real level of kind of not being conscious.
about the level of responsibility that we ought to be taking for how we feel, that we're supposed to be able to just go to somebody else and they're going to fix it. And so I think the thing that changed everything for me was kind of that mental shift. Oh, Actually, what I do matters, which means there's a difficult kind of set of stuff that comes with that.
But there's also this amazing set of stuff that comes with that because there's all these potential intervention points where I can experiment and kind of find out how good it can get. And I mean, I'm still on the up. It's, you know. It's still this way, definitely not this way.
[00:44:37] Andrea: How did you help yourself through the most difficult parts of that?
Because I know, kind of like you alluded to, with this realizing that you have a responsibility and it can be amazing with all the things that you can do. Sometimes it can go in the path of like, uh, I did that and it turned out badly or this is all my fault. Yes.
[00:44:58] Becca: Mm. I think that. The amount of learning that I have done around self compassion for my present self, but also for my every past version of me before today, because mostly what is going on with everyone is that we are doing the best we can with the resources and information we have available at the time.
And so I needed to kind of come to terms with the fact that for my younger self, there's no need to be angry. About the choices that I made 20 years ago, I was doing the best that I could. And I, I don't know if I would really want to change any of it. Because if you change it, then I don't end up here and I'm pretty good where I'm at.
[00:45:41] Andrea: Yeah. And I also think that if you change it, then you don't have, you know, there's ahas that come from really good things, but there's also ahas that came from eating gluten and having your body go numb for three months. That potentially is something you could beat yourself up about, but at the same time you're like, wow, that was the aha.
That was a moment that really helped you move forward.
[00:46:01] Becca: And it's, it's the same way that I used to talk to the children. When you make a mistake, there's juice in there. You know, there's juicy learning to be had because it's when we do things and they don't turn out the way that we expect that we can really dig in and find out if everything goes dreamily the way that we expected it to, then fine.
We haven't learned anything spectacular from that, but mistakes. can be so much richer. And I mean, that one in particular made anything with gluten in it, not look like food to me anymore, which made my life a lot easier. Yeah.
[00:46:30] Andrea: Yeah. That's really interesting. It did with that one moment, you completely changed how you viewed things.
Like just, I think that's so fascinating. You know, one thing that I saw you talk about is Something that I just wanted to touch on because I thought it was so interesting and I actually was having a very similar conversation the other day with somebody about the difference between striving for health and striving for vitality and how those things are different.
I don't necessarily strive for Health in the way that like, I think we can have perfect health or I want to be the picture of health. Like, I don't do that. And it sounds like you don't either.
[00:47:16] Becca: No, because I'd found this out when I went, I did some values work with a coach who's very good at all of this stuff.
And it's, it's something that I do work around with clients quite often around values because it's so illuminating. Yeah. Yeah. And health wasn't on my list. And I just thought, Oh, isn't that interesting? And it's because I define how that piece of my value system shows up as being vitality rather than health.
Because to me, that's the point of working to be, to maximize my wellbeing is so that I can live a life in which I experience vitality. It doesn't mean that I have to be free of every symptom of everything, because I've got multiple chronic diseases that are always going to be there. And if I define my pursuit of health as I have to be in a place where it's as though I didn't have any of that, then that's quite limiting.
Whereas I can still, I can experience being who I am with those things at whatever state, because you know, where I'm at now is not going to be where I am in 10 years. If I am still in a place in 10 years where I can have days where I feel like I can ride the wave of vitality and experience joy, then that's well being for me.
I don't need to be able to say I'm in perfect health. Yeah.
[00:48:31] Andrea: Yeah. You know, and for me, I, cause I say things like I want health, I want better health, and I started realizing like, oh, but that doesn't mean what I think people think it means. Like to me, that doesn't mean that I want it to be this, you know, Adonis that everybody thinks is like, that's never met.
And it was never like that. So I really liked hearing you talk about it too. Cause I was like, that's exactly. that to me really buttoned it up. It's like, no, it's
[00:48:58] Becca: vitality. Yeah. I love that because it's so, it is just joyous when you think about it. Like, when you think about being healthy, being healthy is wonderful.
But when you think about being full of vitality, that kind of, to me, takes it up a notch. Yeah. That's like, I'd rather have that.
[00:49:14] Andrea: Yeah, exactly. Yes, please. Yeah. So talk a little bit about, You work with the autoimmune protocol and you do it with your clients. So talk a little bit about what you do when you're working with clients and what that looks like.
[00:49:30] Becca: Yeah. I mean, it's the autoimmune protocol is one of the tools that we have at our disposal. So it doesn't. necessarily suit everyone. And it depends, like you said, if you are kind of somebody who looks at something like the walls protocol and thinks, Oh, no, that's, you know, this is not for me. I'm not doing any of these things.
Then that doesn't mean that none of this is accessible to you, you know? So it's very much about kind of looking at where. The person is, you know, we start with a signposting session where we really dig in and spend time on working out where are you now and where is it that you want to get to? Because this isn't about what I think you should do.
You're never going to start, you know, doing anything radical because I tell you, I think you should, the thing that is going to be meaningful is what do you want and kind of what do you think needs to be different? in order to point you in the direction of what it is that you really want for your future because you're at a point where you, something needs to change.
And so we kind of, I absolutely do help support people through the autoimmune protocol and people can come to me at any stage if they're trying to implement something like that and really having trouble with it. It can be great to just talk to someone who's got a lot of experience with it. And at the same time, I'm never going to tell you that that's what you have to do in order to get where you want to go.
So it's It's a process of thinking about all of these pillars that I was talking about and other stuff that might not fit neatly into that. You know, for some people, the first thing they need to work on is their relationship with their phone or something like that. That doesn't neatly fit into any of those categories, but if it's the thing that is like a ding, ding, ding, we need to do something about this for that person.
then that's where we start. And, you know, it's about working out a plan of doing things in those small steps that are realistic and where we can build kind of a support round what it is that you're trying to change so that you give yourself the best chance of being successful. And then if it doesn't go quite according to plan, We get the juice.
We get to dig in and find out what happened there and how could we adjust. Is it a course correction or is it just that there needs to be different support or different kinds of preparation?
[00:51:37] Andrea: And who do you work with? It's not just people with MS,
[00:51:40] Becca: No, it's autoimmune diseases generally. And I mean, there are.
The kind of work that I do is kind of relevant for any kind of chronic health condition, really. But I have most experience working with people with autoimmune conditions, because I have several different ones myself. I've got MS, I've got celiac disease, I've got psoriasis, and then I've also got other stuff going on like thyroid dysfunction and adenomyosis, which is related to endometriosis.
So. There's, it often just helps people to know that because then if there's something specific that they connect to about that, then they can, you know, it sometimes feel like, okay, you get it. So I can talk to you about this problem with this thing. But actually a lot of what we need to do is going to be looking at the same.
things, regardless of what the actual challenge is. It's going to be looking at the same things about life and about where it is you're trying to get to, to then work out how methodical and kind of small, realistic changes are going to get you there.
[00:52:40] Andrea: You know, I've often thought after I started looking at my lifestyle changes, I always did it from a standpoint of, because I have MS, because I was very young when I was diagnosed.
And Then it became really clear to me that I'm like, everybody should be doing this. Like it really shouldn't be just because you have an autoimmune disorder, like this is just good for humans.
[00:53:02] Becca: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think it's just one of those things that when we are pushed by things like autoimmune conditions to a point where we feel like we really need to change something and be one of those people who is swimming against the tide for it takes something to make us kind of hit that tipping point.
And so People who have chronic health stuff going on are just looking through a different lens at what, what they value about their life and about their well being.
[00:53:30] Andrea: I often say that I know it's a really annoying thing to hear, but I am grateful for my MS. And I think this is one of the reasons is I seriously doubt I would be as healthy as I am now.
I seriously doubt I would be taking care of myself and putting myself first like I am now if I had not had a diagnosis.
[00:53:50] Becca: Mm, and I know I am 100 percent with you because I've said the very same thing, even though it's frustrating to hear, I am so glad that I am where I am now. And I absolutely would not be if it hadn't been for my MS diagnosis specifically.
And then the kind of road that that led me down because I just understand myself and what I need and how to design my life. I know so much more about that than I ever would have found out otherwise.
[00:54:19] Andrea: Becca, I could talk to you for another three hours. This is fantastic. I love it. I'm going to have a link to your website in the episode description.
I'm going to have all your information in the show notes, but how can people get in touch with
[00:54:33] Becca: you? The easiest way, everything is just under my name, so beccabenning. com is my website, and beccabenning is the most of my handles on social media are either beccabenning or beccabenningchc, which is certified health coach, so I'm easily findable, um, so I'm on Instagram, I'm on, I have a Facebook page, I'm on LinkedIn, but I don't beccabenning.
com. adore social media. So, you know, you're more than welcome to just drop me an email if you fancy a chat. And there are various kind of freebies in the works that are going to be popping up. So yeah. So if you check out my website, you might be able to find something that might be of interest if you're interested in getting the ball rolling and not sure where to begin.
[00:55:16] Andrea: Absolutely. And we didn't even touch on this, but they're soon to come as a TED talk. Which I will definitely have a link to. you and I know you have been super helpful to people listening and informative to people who are looking at things like the autoimmune protocol or just how to wrap their heads around this amazing chronic illness in general.
So thank you so
[00:55:43] Becca: much for having me. It's been great. And thank you for doing what you do. Cause I was saying to you before we started recording that I really appreciate a forum like this where people can hear stories of people who are living well in spite of whatever their health challenges may be. I think that's a super powerful thing to offer people.
So thank you very much. Well,
[00:56:03] Andrea: thank you so much.

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Blaise Hunter

Hello everyone. This is Andrea Hanson. Thank you for joining me. I hope you're having a great week. Now, I know I say this every time I share a conversation with a guest, but I truly can't wait for you to listen to this week's episode with Blaise Hunter. It's inspirational. It's just interesting. And it's going to make you tear up with compassion and then laugh out loud. It's so good.
I first discovered Blaise through her book, captain communicator, and spent about an hour on her website because there's just so much information and it's all really, really interesting. She's doing so much from being an award-winning speaker to running a branding business, to starting her own advocacy group for women's reproductive rights. Her background is in radio and TV. In her twenties. She developed EGPA, which is a rare autoimmune disorder that affects the lungs. She shares her journey through not just medically treating it, but healing it and healing through it.
Her story is brave and fascinating and very relatable for all of us living with an illness, especially if you're living with an autoimmune disorder. I'm going to stop. I'm just going to stop gushing about Blaise. Uh, and how much I love her and I love her story. And just let you hear for yourself.
So please enjoy this week's episode and visit Andrea Hanson, coaching.com for more on Blaise Hunter resources that we talk about in the show and transcripts from today's episode, you can find the link in the episode description. Welcome to the Live Your Life, Not Your Diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker, and master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told I would never reach my goals, but I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view, and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds to inspire you to achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw, uncensored, and judgment free.
Listener discretion is advised.
[00:02:22] Andrea: I'm here talking with Blaise Hunter. Blaise Hunter is breaking barriers with her consulting agency Blaise the Trail, Inc., known as the modern day superhero heroine. She contends for people to own their super identity. Blaise is a best selling author, multi award winning humanitarian, international speaker, fertility expert, certified human rights advocate, copywriter, mother of purpose, and breaker of chains.
Blaise is on a crusade to fight for reproductive health rights. After experiencing three miscarriages of her own, she founded the non profit group Footprints. Infertility and Pregnancy Loss Support Initiative, which is changing the medical system one hospital at a time. She is a multifaceted CEO who helps people birth their identity, dreams, rights, books, and brands. Blaise
Welcome.
[00:03:11] Blaise: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
[00:03:14] Andrea: I always love it when I'm reading a bio that it's just, you do this, and then you do this, and you do this. I think it's fabulous.
[00:03:22] Blaise: It's all part of the unique story of our lives.
[00:03:25] Andrea: 100 percent. 100 percent. I really like that there's so much to what you're doing.
There's the non profit that you helped fund. There's the international speaker. There's the Brand agency that helps people and it's, it's kind of all under this Blaise the trail ink umbrella. So talk to me about what's in that and what you're doing right now.
[00:03:50] Blaise: I know it seems like a lot, but it all comes from the premise that I'm a fertility expert that doesn't help people get pregnant.
I help people birth things. I expand that very definition of fertility and that stems from dealing with a rare illness. Dealing with miscarriages and loss, dealing with multi disappointing things, and setbacks and challenges, and what do we do with that? Do we define, let that define us, or do we redefine our life with it and coexist with it?
So, that's really where this all came from, was dealing with issues and problems and depression and illness and miscarriages, and how do I turn the story around and change the narrative? So... I wrote a book about it and birthed something from that. And from there birthed a business. And from there birthed all these facets that I can add to the core foundation, which is being fertile and I am not barren and I'm a mother of purpose.
[00:04:48] Andrea: And I love how you say you want to breathe fire and help other people breathe fire.
[00:04:53] Blaise: Yes, because I think it's one thing for you to know that you're worthy and know that you have an identity, know that you have purpose. It's another thing to stand in that energy and own it. And so it's two different parts of the formula.
You need to be able to understand that you do have purpose and identity, but now you need to breathe fire into it and really own authority into that space.
[00:05:17] Andrea: And it's interesting because when I was going through my own health journey, I mean, I suppose we're still going through it, right? Health journeys don't stop.
No. But when I was really first in that moment of, you know, I was getting diagnosed and I was starting to realize I needed to stand on my purpose, I needed to have that confidence. I feel like the first part of that was this ego type of a confidence, right? This surface type of like, yes, of course I'm worthy.
Of course I have self confidence. Of course I, I can do this. Of course I can. And you have that. I kind of liken it to, I came from corporate and worked in corporate and there's like that corporate surface confidence that comes where deep, deep down though, it's just not there. And you don't really have that confidence.
You don't really have that self worth.
[00:06:06] Blaise: Exactly. It's like surface level masking of doing this, which I know how to do. I came from corporate as well. We're like, I know how to do like confidence. Honestly, I can do that night and day, but it's not my beingness. It's because I do it. And I had to shift the, had to redefine what that meant for me, because the moment.
You have a setback, it crumbles your world, because it's all based on this facade of doingness. And what if my doingness fails, rather than just being? Yes. And the being always stands.
[00:06:43] Andrea: Right? What if my doingness gets questioned because I failed?
[00:06:47] Blaise: Totally. But then I shifted, it's not about the doing, it's always about my being, and therefore it can never be put into question.
[00:06:53] Andrea: Ugh. What helped you make that shift?
[00:06:55] Blaise: It was a few life defining moments for me. I struggled with body image and self worth my whole life. I developed a rare autoimmune disease in my 20s, and we'll talk about that further. Part of that life experience was my dad faked his own death when I was in my 20s, and came back, and we've never talked about it again.
[00:07:20] Andrea: Even to this day?
[00:07:21] Blaise: Yeah, we don't talk about it. And there's no inner healing from a family perspective from that. And within two years, now that I've done so much deep work, and unpacking all of that, within two years, my brother and I both developed a rare autoimmune condition. And... His wasn't as severe and his was different, but I went to therapy and an alternative holistic kind of practitioner after years of hitting walls in the medical system, and I've tried everything physically and medically.
I just came to this My own kind of maybe aha of maybe it's emotional. Maybe I need to unpack what that means and how it contributes to my physical health. So I went there and I don't believe in any of it. I'm a high critic, nothing. I don't do woo woo. I don't do anything holistic. I'm very anti and questioning, but I've tried everything else.
So let's just try this, right? And the very first thing the practitioner said was, Oh, you have an autoimmune disease where your body physically attacks itself. And I said, yeah. And she's like, do you think there's a link with that? And the fact that you hate yourself and you attack yourself daily with your thoughts.
And I just never had been positioned that way. No one's ever linked that together. And not saying it's the sole reason, but it plays a part. Your inner world impacts your outer. So like, if your thoughts and words are saying you're not good enough, attack, you're not safe, things aren't safe, what do you think your body's going to do?
And so that was a huge moment for me that shifted the trajectory of my life of being able to Walk away from that appointment to say, I am no longer going to contribute to attacks, to the self attacks, to the autoimmune. I'm not going to be the contributor factor. I'm going to remove myself from the equation and starve the disease by injecting love instead of rejection.
Acceptance, not rejection. You know what I mean? Like, it's like I'm no more danger in my body. I am safe. I am safe. I'm no longer rejected. And I had to change the narrative of how trauma played a factor in that, that I am safe and that I am now doing that. Even though I am not fully healed yet, I, day by day, I'm starving that disease and I'm alive today because I made that decision.
There is no way I'd be alive today if I didn't change that narrative.
[00:09:41] Andrea: Yeah. I completely agree. I mean, on all fronts, because I know I'm not at all what you would call the woo woo. Yeah. I mean, even though I dabble, like I'm curious, I'm like woo curious. Yeah. I have, you know, a very good friend who's, who does just insanely amazing things.
And I cannot deny, when I see her work, I'm like, I can't deny this. I can't deny that this is real. So it's not that, but I am still somehow like, I'm not woo. I don't do that. I don't know what it is. I have to, you know, my mom is British. I have to be, you know, very, yeah, that's probably what it is.
[00:10:16] Blaise: I've been converted.
I'm not off the deep end, but I have been converted. Exactly.
[00:10:21] Andrea: I'm like closeted converted. But, but I do believe that there is a link between Absolutely. With beating ourselves up and what's going on in our mindset and also the suppression of emotions and the suppression of trauma and healing trauma. I really think that that is something that contributes number one because I think that stress is a huge factor.
And really in any disease, but especially in autoimmune, in anything, right? But especially in autoimmune diseases, because it makes our immune systems go kind of nuts. And any kind of stress, like any kind of suppressing your emotions, not allowing yourself to feel, not allowing yourself to understand and heal and know your truth, like any of that.
It's stressful and creates inflammation, creates situations. And so I definitely also had to do the same thing. Like when I started, I liken it as like an unfreezing of my emotions. Like I was frozen. Like I had no idea. What do you mean emotions? Like sure, I'll cry during a movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:26] Blaise: A survival technique to almost detach that you never felt, right?
You never processed. It just was like crossed wires everywhere.
[00:11:35] Andrea: Exactly. And I think that is, uh, and like you said, it's like, I don't think it's the only contributor, but I do think it's a major contributor and I can really see the trajectory of my MS as I Started to unfreeze and started to heal and started to go back and go through things like the trauma or different trauma Then it's it doesn't have to be huge trauma.
It can be a little traumatic. It
[00:11:57] Blaise: could be a car accident. That's a trauma Yes, that's a physical trauma that may be deeply impact you and you don't even you're not even aware of your subconscious Absolutely getting impacted like we need to really redefine and expand what trauma means Right? Right.
[00:12:11] Andrea: Yeah.
And I think it's also, I mean, I think you're right. I think it doesn't have to be, like, number one, let's not compare our traumas. One person's trauma can be... Apple's different in state. Yeah.
[00:12:21] Blaise: Exactly. But it's
[00:12:26] Andrea: like one person's trauma is another person's Sunday, you know, and not a big deal. It's all in kind of the eye of the beholder, but it's still something that if we feel like we need to process, we process and it's going to help us, I think, in our health.
So I, I totally agree. What was that like? because I know it's not an overnight thing, right? It's not like a, I made the decision and then everything was fantastic.
[00:12:49] Blaise: It literally, you know, I would love to say I made the decision and rainbows and angels and you know, it wasn't like that. It was like actually.
Very interesting of hard work of being challenged because the moment I said, you know what I'm going to work on loving myself Oh, yeah, like if the world was like, oh, yeah, we'll see how much you love yourself We're going to throw everything at you to challenge you to actually stick to your word. That's what it was like so it's like really I wanted to love myself and now everything is coming at me to say You're not worthy and you're inadequate.
And I was like, this is kind of a cosmic joke, right?
[00:13:27] Andrea: It's like, you're not even loving yourself. Right.
[00:13:30] Blaise: But it was so majestic and what a beautiful journey to lean into. And I realized it. isn't easy. It is a hard road, but it is a worthwhile road because when you look at where you were, even if you stayed where you were or go back where you once were in the past, that wasn't working for me.
And so if I stay there, I know It's not going to be good at the end. Like it's going, I know the result because it didn't work for me then. So I gotta go forward. And I'm committed to this process and how can I go wrong if I take little steps to unmask myself, to be vulnerable, to accept who I am, to step into who I am, and to really model that for my daughter.
That was another pinnacle moment, like she was three at the time and I thought Thinking in your head as a good mom of what good mom means and how to model that for her and looking ahead in time and would she go to school and how to make sure she doesn't get bullied and and think she's fat and unworthy and how do I get her to breathe fire and it just dawned on me like I don't know if she would do that if her mama, her biggest role model, doesn't actually practice what she preaches.
because we say it, and we tell them, do as I say, but not as I do. Meanwhile we're like, you're beautiful, you can be a world changer, you can be anything. And then we sit there, and we are critical of our own selves, and we go into a mirror and we, you know, ten things that we don't like about ourselves, but yet we tell our kids they're amazing just as they are.
And I'm like, well that doesn't compute, because they're going to pick up that what you're saying doesn't make sense, because it's not, you're not living it. And they're going to call you on it. They don't like fakers. They want real, even imperfect real. They just don't want the fakeness of do as I say, but don't live it.
So I really tried. To do that thinking of her in my head of like, I've got to be that for her and it's dire and desperate and I've got to do this. So that was another big factor.
[00:15:33] Andrea: And you know, you mentioned that once you decide to make that change and step into who you are and really embrace yourself, embrace your self worth, embrace your self esteem, all of those amazing things, you know, unfortunately, a lot of the times I experienced it is once a woman, especially, starts to step into her own and own herself and breathe the fire, as you say. Unfortunately, like, all of the haters come out of the woodwork and from, like, surprising places.
[00:16:06] Blaise: Totally. From the closest places, almost. Yes. Yeah.
[00:16:10] Andrea: Yeah. And, I mean, I remember being so surprised because there would be groups that I was like, oh, this is a safe place.
[00:16:16] Blaise: Yeah. This was a given. Oh, yeah. No problem. We'll get the support here. Yes. And a complete shocker. What is happening here? Yeah. Yeah. You found that too? Oh my
[00:16:26] Andrea: gosh. I know you have too. I'm sure. I've had very surprising things said to me by people in the MS community, people at support groups. I mean, it's. It can get crazy.
And I understand it's, I very much believe that hurt people hurt people. Like I really believe in that adage and I know I can understand and be compassionate of that's where it comes from, but how do you deal with that? How did you deal with it when I first started and how do you continue
to deal with that?
[00:16:53] Blaise: I have come out the other side and I handle it like a boss now. Mm hmm. Six years ago, total shocker, had to go to therapy over it. So let's be honest. Like, it wasn't all like, oh yeah, I got this. This is a you issue, not a me issue. Right.
[00:17:08] Andrea: Well, because they don't wait until you're healed, right? They don't wait until you're like all the way there.
[00:17:12] Blaise: You just take a step and then they're like lambasting you. Exactly.
[00:17:16] Andrea: You're like putting a finger up to test the wind and it gets smacked down by someone.
[00:17:21] Blaise: It's comical now because I can look at it with a different lens. At the time, very much struggled. Yeah. Definitely went into certain trauma responses and trigger responses of my own.
And I looked back at that and be like, how can I do that better? And I actually, because I avoided conflict because of that, I actually in the last three years have put myself in situations for conflict to be able to find my way through it without hurting someone, without deviating from the topic or the issue, but actually working on creating a bridge with that person.
So that's been my challenge is like really embracing conflict to be better at it. That's how you get better at it. But I definitely struggled in the beginning and now I've realized Like you said, hurt people hurt, but when you take a step outside of being sick, outside of the norm, which is struggling with self worth, we all struggle with that.
And a big population struggles with an ailment, whether it's a serious illness or something, we all struggle with some physical ailment. Or mental ailment. So when you take a step to not let that define your identity, that shakes people to the core. because often they are stuck in that identity of victim of sickness and that becomes who they are because well this is, I have this, this is me, this is my life.
And I'm like When you decide to change that narrative, it's not that you're ticking them off. You're actually becoming a mirror that shines a light onto them of like, you need to change something, without you even saying anything to them about it. Just you doing that one step then becauses this huge Butterfly effect.
And either people take reflection and be like, Huh, I'm being charged by this person and they're doing amazing things. Why is that? And I need to go home and unpack that and go to a therapist. Instead of that, we project and lash out. So as I've learned, I'm just becoming a mirror and it's shining a light on people's thing, issues.
And you know what, sometimes I'm just going to have to ground myself and just hold up a shield and be like, I understand now where that's coming from and it's not an attack on me. And that's been the greatest gift I can give myself. because then I give grace for somebody. because now I know, have no attachment to their reaction.
And it's not about hurting me. They're not hurting me, they're really just not knowing how to navigate their own hurt.
[00:19:50] Andrea: Yeah, because a lot of times it's coming to you from people that don't know you, so how can it be personal?
[00:19:55] Blaise: Yeah. And if it, even if it is, like, that's what even if it's someone that doesn't know me, then get to know me.
You have no idea what I do or been through. And then someone that's really close, I'm like, you know what I've been through. So I'm like, I just don't understand the reaction of either, One person said, you know, like, maybe they've always wanted to do something and you've done it with all of your challenges and barriers and you went and did it.
And now it's like they have no excuse. So it's literally you're challenging people to the core of belief systems of how they can, what their limits are. And some people just aren't ready or able to turn that into a positive yet, but don't stop being that charge because a change agent is an abrasive. And so when you decide to do that, you're going to start scrubbing things and rubbing people.
That's okay. Then we need to shake things up, right? because then they need to see that. And if you just keep going and don't be discouraged by the reaction, they're going to come around eventually. And if they're not, that's their own journey, right?
[00:20:54] Andrea: Yeah, I love that. I mean, because it's true. I definitely would feel myself in the beginning go into a trauma response, and I cocooned.
I was like, oh, not going to say that again, or I'm not going to go there, or I'm not going to, you know, for the longest time. I didn't, like, I knew There was something in me, I knew there was a perspective, a very strong perspective that I had about my, you know, kind of my new life as a person living with MS and what that meant in the world, in the system, in the community, in myself, and like I said, I kind of stuck my, my nose out, tested the wind, said a few things and then got smacked by somebody for whatever their own personal reason was.
And then I'm like, well, can't say that. Don't want the haters. Don't want this. And I think that that kind of thing happens a lot to people where you don't want to offend. You don't want people, it doesn't feel good to have haters. And especially if you don't have that deep down confidence, if it's just the corporate, the corporate ego driven confidence, it's.
It's tough to weather that storm.
[00:22:00] Blaise: It is. And I encourage people just hang in there and do certain exercises and work and do the research of what's best for you and try different tactics. And like I said, I wasn't a good fighter. I took it personally. I'm a soft heart. I would never say those things. I would never attack someone's character, even if I didn't agree with them.
I would never go there. I attack the issue. But the moment when someone attacks your character, you know they're not coming from an emotionally intelligent place. So you can't even really fully have a discussion with them, but I try and ways to connect and enter a shared reality. So I, I positioned my questions differently.
I position it. What does that say about you that you would try to hurt me? That hurts my heart. Are you trying to hurt me? And that makes them stop and think and not be in so much red zone fight, right? So I, and then that's an art. It's an art to have conflict. It's an art to get attacked and how to move through it without attacking back.
And that's an anchor and grounding and being able to connect and be a bridge is a huge tool to have. And it's a number one thing, like that's a peace treaty. If we could just build peace treaties within our bodies, within our environments, with people and relationships, man, we would see progression. Right?
So it's not about winning the fight, it's not about winning and changing your mind and you changing, because like, I don't think we're ever going to do that. I'm allowed to share my perspective and I'd love to hear yours. And we might never agree, we might be on total opposite of the spectrum, but I respect that you have one.
And you have an educated opinion, and where does that come from, and tell me more. And people all of a sudden stand down in the attack. Right? And then that bridges it and creates some commonality with one another.
[00:23:48] Andrea: So you mentioned a little bit before about, probably about 20 years ago, you were diagnosed with a pretty rare autoimmune disorder.
And tell us a little bit, it affected your lungs, is that
[00:24:01] Blaise: right? It did. So, total sports nut active person growing up, very healthy, a doer, and all this kind of things, and went on and became a radio broadcaster, and I was in my first job, and I just started getting sick one weekend, like a bronchitis, and It never went away.
That was 20 years ago. And it took years to get a diagnosis, but over the course of months and a couple years, it was like late onset adult asthma. And I'm like, what the heck? You just wake up morning with debilitating asthma where you can't breathe. You can't keep food down. You're puking because you're coughing so much.
I lost so much weight. I had no way to survive through that. I don't even know how I made it through. But it took many years, took about six years to get into the right doctors because it's just asthma. Here's an inhaler, but I'm like, nothing's working.
[00:24:57] Andrea: Well, and you were doing, you were talking for a living.
So did this, were you able to keep doing that?
[00:25:02] Blaise: I did it, but what people don't see on the outside. Like you do your five minute newscast, you go on the air at four o'clock in the morning and you're bright, shiny and personality and you hit the mic off and you have this huge asthma attack, puking and sinus issue.
And then you get cleared up and then you're back on again and like people don't understand what you're fighting through to get to there and you show all the pretty side because that's your job and you need to make money. But there's always a different side to people's lives that I'm unaware of, and I recognize that.
And that's, as long as we can recognize that, even if it's illness or just regular life, I recognize you have a backstory that no one sees, and there's probably struggle within that. And so, fast forward, it took a collapsed lung. to figure out an autoimmune condition. And really the diagnosis really played no factor in the treatment.
It was the same treatment we were doing, which was unfortunate. There was not much else I could do with that. But I found ways and other avenues, like the holistic route, to combat it in a different way. and try, right? And, and the biggest thing was that holistic appointment about autoimmune and self rejection and hating yourself.
And then in tandem was a natural path appointment. I thought, get some supplements, get some things to counteract your adrenals and the stressors, right? And the natural path is like, oh, well, you have a lung disorder. You have a grief problem. Has anything happened in your life with grief? And I just was like, What?
Yes, but no one's ever asked me that. No one's ever asked me life experiences and how health plays a factor in those things. And she said, you know, asthma literally translates to uncried tears. What haven't you processed that you're sad about? You're choking on your own sobs. And I bawled in front of her, right?
Yeah. And then just to have someone safe to share that because what I went through with my family wasn't safe to talk about. Mental health was not a thing 20 years ago like it is now and we still have a lot of room to go but it is a safer space to express if battling depression or all those things with mental health, right?
So now it was a safer space to share that I went through something and I didn't have to be ashamed of it and I could process some emotions with it. So really understanding, okay, maybe I need to Now it was like, okay, doer time. I can work on how to process grief. It gave me an avenue versus this very abstract disease,
right?
[00:27:32] Andrea: And so what did you do? Did you immediately go and start working with a therapist or a grief counselor or someone?
[00:27:39] Blaise: I mean, Yes, I did a lot of things of like listening to my body and what is it saying? because it's really telling us things we just kind of need to be in tune and it's screaming at us and even things in life.
It repeats the pattern until we deal with it. It may look different each time, but the kind of core energy is the same. So grief kept coming up. So I've got to like learn to heal that and forgive. and forgive myself and forgive my dad and forgive other people and just give grace because it's hurting me.
It's actually killing me. The unforgiveness is the poison we drink but expect somebody else to die from it. And so I just, I wanted to live and I had a daughter and I have a wonderful husband and I chose life instead of death and I literally was suffocating on my tears like I don't want that. So it's called, Churg Strauss is what it used to be called, and now it's translated to an acronym, EGPA, which is just a very rare, it's the blood, you get high markers of allergens in your eosinophils and in your blood cells, and then it really impacts the breathing in the lungs, so it presents as an asthma, but it's so deeper and has many tentacles to that that's not well researched.
So it's just on this cusp of getting more research, but that's why it's so rare. And that's why I was like, I just need... I can't really get anywhere medically right now, we've kind of hit that edge where I'm, we're sustaining with treatment, but I'm not healing, right? They're just working on my symptoms, but I'm actually not doing anything about that.
So I, great, I love the Western field of, you know, the medicine that I need, and I need the help from the specialists and the doctors, and I fully support that I need that, but that doesn't help me actually heal fully, it's just making me stay alive. So then I combined it with the holistic element. Well, while I'm doing that, I'm going to dig deeper and try and heal aspects of myself.
And I can't go wrong with healing things, , right? Emotionally and mentally,
[00:29:40] Andrea: right? You're not going to break anything. You're not going to break anything. By healing yourself emotionally.
[00:29:44] Blaise: I'm not taking anything that will harm you. It's a good thing that I'm healing trauma . Yeah,
[00:29:50] Andrea: yeah, yeah. Nobody ever regrets healing trauma.
I wouldn't think. It really is a common theme before, especially, I hear it especially with autoimmune disorders. It was true with my autoimmune disorder and with many, many people that I talked to. A lot of times it is pretty closely predated by some kind of grief that was not processed.
[00:30:15] Blaise: Absolutely.
Within a few years. Yes. It's in your DNA. It's in your DNA. You can see it in your blood. When something happened, isn't that fascinating? Yeah, like you can tell under a microscope you can tell tears of joy and tears of grief The chemical is different even though the tears seem to look the same Microscopically, they're very different chemically because they're coming from two different aspects of yourself, right?
And I find that fascinating
[00:30:44] Andrea: Yeah, yeah, I think that's fascinating and I think it just proves that emotions are not just like I'm feeling happy or I'm feeling sad. Emotions are so deeply rooted in our bodies and they're energy. They're alive, like they look different. Like you said, like under a microscope they can look different and you can feel it once you start.
And you know, I did the same thing and I kind of, I went through the same process with listening to my body as I went with understanding my emotions. I was Totally frozen. Like, I couldn't, listening to my body, I was like, what does that mean? When I started. And it took a little bit for me to do that. Oh, for sure.
Yeah. But once you do, it's like you realize that there's just, everything vibrates differently. Everything feels different. different, depending on what your body is saying.
[00:31:34] Blaise: I know what it's like of, oh, you decide to tune into your body and listen, and then like all of a sudden overnight it happens. No, it doesn't happen like that.
It takes effort and time. But once you make that kind of intention, all these little kind of signals pop up and you can trust it once you test it and be like, Oh, that's what that means. Oh, okay. Now I can trust that kind of gut feeling that that's what my body's trying to tell me. And I have a little bit more trust to listen and let it guide me and go in that pathway.
And then it opens up so many doors of investigation. It's really an amazing thing. To trust and know yourself and know your body and being able to let it guide you because that's what it's there for. And that's a fascinating, amazing tool that I recommend anyone is just to kind of take those steps to learn what your body's trying to tell you, learn what your heart's trying to tell you and, and take a step towards that and unpack that a little bit.
[00:32:31] Andrea: So your latest book, Captain Communicator, is... A lot about that, right? It's a lot about communication and communicating with other people in different scenarios, but also communicating with ourselves on multiple levels.
[00:32:49] Blaise: Yes, because I felt like, wow, someone once said it, . I was talking with them and they were like, oh, isn't that interesting that you are a radio broadcaster, but you struggled with finding your voice.
And I was like, wow, someone had a great epiphany about myself. It's a great observation. I did not understand that until this moment. That I probably struggled having a voice, so I chose a career that allowed me to have one. Like, wow. Mind blowing, right? Yeah. And a lot of that was communication. I didn't know how to communicate within, but I knew how to do it behind a mask of a mic.
'because that was a platform and I didn't have to be me. I was a persona of me. Right? So I wanted to really go back to the foundation of communication and the greatest. Quote of all time, which is know thyself. And if you don't know yourself from any realm of within that shapes your outer world, you don't know how to communicate with anything else in your life.
So let's go from the beginning of how to really know yourself. Ask questions of yourself. What is your trauma? What is your trauma response? What's your trigger? Most people don't even know what their trigger response is. And I'm like, once you know your trigger response, you unlock many communication tactics, because right now, I clearly understand I'm being triggered and anything I say comes from a place of reaction, not response.
Right? So it was like really showing people if you can even understand your trigger, you can heal a lot of your conflict.
[00:34:25] Andrea: How do you even get to know what your trigger is?
[00:34:27] Blaise: You usually have a physical response. Mine is my ears burn, my heart palpitates, and I get really like fluttery like butterflies and I'm like engaged like my body posture is like I'm leaned in and I'm ready.
But I'm a, I'm a fight that way, right? I do the same thing. If you're a flight, you're like, I want to end this. I need to leave this job. I need to go to another city. I need to like, and you're flight, like, I want to get out. It's danger. Right? So you have that instant with to withdraw. Like if it's something's happening, I just don't, it's trauma for me.
It's triggering. I need to like disengage instead of engaging without. charge, right? And like freeze, like you said, you're freezing emotion. Like sometimes that would be me too. Like the trauma froze me to have even a coherent thought. So someone would say something and I'd be like, and I'd go home and three hours later have this whole response in bed of like, that really hurts.
But I couldn't even articulate that in that moment, three hours earlier. Yeah. I'm understanding. Oh, that makes sense. That's me. I can see myself. I can feel my ears getting hot. I can feel that. Like someone lit a firecracker and I am ready to like breathe fire in a bad way, right? And so once I completely know I'm on to that, the moment I feel like, uh, uh, Blaise, you can't, you can't say anything right now.
Say I'll have to get back to you, I'm actually really triggered and feel unsafe and anything I say might not contribute in a healthy way. So maybe we take a break and I can regroup, or can you help me work through that? because when I say I'm unsafe and this is a trauma trigger response, people sometimes then back down and want to work with you.
Mm hmm. Right? So it's all an understanding of how to better create connection rather than conflict.
[00:36:18] Andrea: Yeah. And I think something really, I don't know, when I, when I was doing work that was very similar and realizing like, Oh, this is how sometimes I just want to fight. I just want to, I mean, like I used to do jujitsu.
I was like, let's go hold my earrings. And I wouldn't, and I would notice these things and sometimes I would just shut down. So it just kind of depended on where I was in my own journey as far as either the topic. Or just as far as like my own confidence, like it used to be that I would just shut down because I didn't know.
It was like what you said. It's like I didn't even know what to say. And then as my confidence built, I didn't necessarily go straight to, I will never be triggered because I'm so in my own confidence. I would just like, triggers would change. My triggers would change. And so then all of a sudden I'd be like, no, I know what I'm going to say and I want to fight you.
But it was still, that's still not a healthy, not a healthy response, but it's, it's interesting because they can change.
[00:37:14] Blaise: Exactly, and I go by, your words can either heal or hurt. Don't you ever be the prick. Yeah, right. And so in that moment, it's easy to go for a dig It's easy even when you're confident know what you're talking about.
You've healed things like it doesn't mean you're all Amazing at communication just because you choose to study that and become better at it It means you're a more aware when you do flub up Yeah Yeah, and you're aware of other people and you're you can make allowance I never want my words to hurt someone, so I'm trying to be very diligent and being active listener and response of how does this contribute to healing?
Does it hurt or does it heal? because I do not want to be the prick in this conversation, right? And that could be like a jerk prick or the actual prick that's hurting someone's heart. And I don't want to do that. And that hurts us physically. And what I'm trying to do with my work, with Blaise the Trail, with Captain Communicator, with all that I'm doing, is to heal my illness.
It's counterproductive to be hurtful with my words because then I've just hurt myself. And the whole point of what I'm doing is to starve this disease and walk out my healing. So, I'm mindful of that and I don't always get it right. I do screw up. I do go into trigger mood. Don't get me wrong. But I recognize it.
I apologize. I move forward and I try and do better tomorrow. That's real.
[00:38:38] Andrea: Yeah. And I think that's the point is we're never going to be a hundred percent enlightened. I don't believe in that. We can't be perfect. We cannot be perfect. And even, even if I do, like if I'm, I am triggered or it's something that I, I just feel very deeply, I can feel myself going from the listener communicator where I can hear what they're saying, but it doesn't, it's not.
So deep that I'm totally out of my mind, I guess. I mean, not that I get crazy, but you know what I mean? It's like you're a watcher of the conversation and you're listening versus just getting pulled into it and reacting. I can feel the difference and and even if I do get pulled in and I feel like oh, yeah I really landed it.
Like I really said something there. I'll replay it in my head and I stay in that anger. Yes. Hours later, even though I'm like, yeah, I really told him off or something, I don't know. It's not that I do this all the time. I mean, I'm, I feel like I'm painting this picture that I'm like some crazy combative person.
But sometimes it happens, right? But then it's like Oh, all the time. Yeah, but you can stay in that, that state. That's not helping us either.
[00:39:45] Blaise: No, and I like to set myself up because sometimes you can't be prepared of what's about to hit you. But a lot of times you understand a dynamic that you're about to embark on with somebody.
You understand who they are or what topic you're even talking about and you make a conscious decision. Am I going to be the kind of rebel rouser in this one or am I going to be able to approach this? In a more diplomatic way and that's my goal is always I have to check that walking into that conversation is what's the goal?
Do I have an outcome here? Is it to connect? Is it to be confident and and share my point of view and allow that to be at the forefront? Do I want other people's point of view? like what does the outcome that I want because then I can drive my questions and my My statement's in that direction, so I'm being very conscious of that, and active of that direction.
Like, I control the narrative of this car. I control the direction. And if people understand you control the narrative of your life, it's not just some random... Whatever, we land in the car and it takes us on a journey. We actually have a say in the direction of that goes, to some degree, right? You're not a victim of your trauma responses.
You're not a victim of all these things, your illness. You're not a victim of it, but you can turn it around and take control and be the driver of it. in one aspect or more. Yes, I can't control that I got it, but I can control how it works in my life. It doesn't define me. I'm not a victim. I'm not at the mercy of it.
I am now deciding how I want that to play out in my life. I'm deciding how I want people to play out in my life. And sometimes, People have a complete crazy reaction that I have no idea that was coming. And that's okay, because I'm like, whoa, I landed on something there. And you know what? I just, I'm like, okay, I know how to do this.
I've practiced this for good. Anchor. Be a grounding force. Don't be a contributor to the fire. Don't pour gasoline on it. Try and find a way to extinguish and neutralize. And that's what I'm always trying to do, is be a neutralizer. And that's the goal and the energy I walk in. And I'm able to walk through it better.
[00:41:52] Andrea: And I think another part, and you touched on this a little bit earlier, when we are realizing that we do drive this, right, we drive our response, we drive our reality. And I think a big part of it is to have that compassion with ourselves and knowing that we're learning to drive, we're always learning to drive.
And sometimes you're going to drive into a tree and that's okay. And it's the compassion and the self forgiveness. that comes. I think that helps us get back on track and drive a little bit better next time.
[00:42:24] Blaise: No, I totally, and that's a great way. It's like, I, like, we can't control other people in life circumstances, but we would control how we react to them.
That's empowerment. And so no longer am I a victim in this. I've decided to control certain aspects of this and turn it around and look at the good, even though. EGPA has been a life altering thing and a deadly illness that I've battled and had two collapsed lungs and three miscarriages and ambulance trips and life experiences where you sit in a mirror and think you're going to die if you don't breathe, so you better breathe.
The ambulance is not going to get here in six minutes, so like, you gotta breathe here, Blaise. Those are moments where, like, you could fall into and be very depressed in that. And I have. And I wanted to get out of it because there's meaning for my life and I turned disease into identity, positive identity, purposeful identity, and something that we can share vulnerability like I struggle with this, you struggle with that, but that doesn't have to be our defining moment.
We can use that and be vulnerable and help other people unlock things in their life and share our stories and they're perfectly imperfect and you've got purpose and you've got something to give to this world other than despair and illness and struggle. So let's... Do it together link arms and that is the way we can breathe fire together.
[00:43:50] Andrea: That really is the number one reason why I Came across you and I started reading about you and watching some of your speeches and things and I was like she is the embodiment of turning pain into purpose and I think it's amazing and you help other people do that as well, right? Talk a little bit about how you work with people, what you do, who you work with.
[00:44:14] Blaise: A lot of it is like, it's amazing how the steps have kind of come together. I started off writing books. I started off teaching copywriting and branding and doing speaking. And then over the course of the pandemic, I worked on my nonprofit, which was just giving some advocacy and support and empathy to parents when they lose a baby or struggle with infertility.
My husband struggled. We had nowhere to go. We gave a soft landing for parents and a lot of mental health resources community. And that has grown over the years. It's now an international award winning initiative. And you know what, now I help educate reproductive health rights. And there's so much to address with reproductive health in that one topic. And I specialize in infertility and loss. And what that looks like as a human right. And it is. I never knew that. I'm in my 40s. I googled it and I'm like, that's an actual thing. Like, I didn't know that. It's an actual human right to have a reproductive health right.
When you go to any workplace, there is no language in workplace policies that talk about what happens if you struggle with infertility or have a pregnancy loss, no matter your gender. There is not one paragraph that addresses the human right code of what to do in that situation and how to support your employee.
And that's a travesty. So that's what I'm doing to help people in this instance, is really educating reproductive health rights, how to support that, how to bridge these. Maybe disconnects of that and create buy in because it's not just a women issue. It affects everybody. So we need to rally together, educate, and then understand that where your right is and then unleash those new policies and empowerment and community and support that helps people rather than Leaves them alone and they're in the system and they're struggling and it leads it to other of these problems that are costing our States or provinces or countries way more than if we just dealt with it in the beginning.
Mm hmm so that's what I'm really trying to focus on is really celebrating and Educating reproductive health rights along with my copywriting business and all of that. Yes
[00:46:32] Andrea: Who do you work with in your copywriting business?
[00:46:35] Blaise: Anyone in business, because look at anyone that needs a website, you know, people are like, Oh, I hire someone to design the website.
But often designers of websites aren't the copy part. Those are the design part. We kind of underestimate of what that looks like to sell yourself. It is a blank canvas and it either can work for you or work against you. And so that's what I do. I help anyone in business. If they're a writer, if they're an author, if they're a coach, if they're in any kind of.
Business, whether it's tech, restaurant, if they're a tattoo art, anything, you need a platform that sells you. And so that's what it's like all about marketing and branding and getting your brand identity. But then I help people because if you don't have a brand identity, let's look at your actual identity.
because if you don't know who you are personally, you will take on a false identity professionally. So we try and work on your personal, what are your strengths and who are you and your character and your passions, and find that because that really organically draws out your professional brand. And then I have a lot to play with there because now they're aligned, they're not a false identity.
So how
[00:47:42] Andrea: can people get in touch with you, both for, if it's for the brand identity or also for your nonprofit?
[00:47:49] Blaise: Yeah. BlaiseHunter. com has all the facets of what I do, B L A I S E, Hunter. com. And Dabble all in there, anything, if you want to write a book, if you want questions about your brand, if you want a speaker, if you want reproductive health information, it's all there, easy
to access.
[00:48:08] Andrea: I am willing to bet that in your analytics, you show people going to that homepage on your website and staying there for like two hours. Yeah. Am I right? Yeah.
[00:48:19] Blaise: They love the photo.
[00:48:22] Andrea: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, my gosh, I didn't even touch on the fact that your photos are amazing, but it's just that there's just so much there.
There's so much goodness. There's depth.
[00:48:31] Blaise: And, yeah. That's been attributed to like, The solid foundation because once you have a foundation and it's coming from a place, this isn't wasn't meant to be a business. It wasn't meant to get clients and make money. It was literally to follow my passion and give back to this world.
So then that organically just like poof this opportunity. I'm good at this. And I drew on my radio and PR skills. And someone said today like you have an eclectic, really deep bullpen of talent of expertise of your career that you can what we help people with. If you're a speaker, you're not always the writer, right?
And if you're this, you're not always this. And it seems like I have a good smattering of, of a background that contributes to that, which is a great thing to give clients and people that I work with. So yeah, there's a lot of things on that homepage.
[00:49:23] Andrea: But it's great. I mean, it's not, it's not like it's random.
It's kind of like what you say. It's a good foundation. It's, there's a through line to everything. Yeah. It's not, she doesn't, you know how some people it's, I do this and then that, and then this, and then you start to wonder, yeah, you're like, this doesn't like, and then I make cupcakes, you know, for your birthday party.
And you're like,
[00:49:42] Blaise: what? It's a little bit of business ADHD. And that's why I really coach people. It's like, you can have many tentacles to your business. Like many people do. Yeah. but have a solid foundation where that comes from. And lots of people are like, aren't you exhausted? And I said, well, this is a different focus than me.
My number one driver isn't to make money, which money is great. And I want to make money, but my number one driver is to heal. So I'm doing these certain things because I know it's part of my healing journey. So then it's like this urgency and this extra energy, it's superhero energy that I don't have.
Like, it's not, from me. It's something in this world that is contributing to that because it's this perfect alignment of passion and purpose and healing. And when I step on stage and I roar, I literally roar with a cape and a sword on stage. And people are like, how do you have the energy? And you have a lung disorder.
And I'm like, because that actually gives me energy. That actually fuels me. And I will not let this beat me. So I'm going to combat it with positive energy and it somehow gives me this beautiful fuel that I, I can't even explain. It's not logical. It's not even natural. I don't even understand it, but it's, it's the right direction.
So I lean in.
[00:50:58] Andrea: Yeah. I think some of the best things fuel us with absolutely no explanation at
[00:51:03] Blaise: all. Yeah, I shouldn't be able to roar like that. I literally get up and have an asthma attack, and yet I can go on stage and breathe fire like that. And I find that inspiring. So I, I want to do that more because that is healing energy, right?
So like, let's tap into that more and let's do it. And somehow it keeps birthing things. And that's where I'm like, Yes, I still haven't been able to birth another physical baby, but I'm not barren. I am a mother of purpose. And we can birth things even in a barren season. So don't look at the illness and be like, I can't, I'm sick.
because I'm like, don't, because that doesn't define you. That's just part of you. But you can still birth things and be healthy in many areas and coexist with it and carry it along. So all of a sudden you've over. encompass the illness or the struggle or whatever that looks like for your life, you have now blossomed all these fertile, beautiful things that now work around it.
And nourish it, even though you're coexisting with it, and that's what I do with my life.
[00:52:06] Andrea: Blaise Hunter, thank you so much for coming on and sharing, I mean, I don't even know what to label it, wisdom, knowledge, inspiration. It's been amazing. Thank you.
[00:52:20] Blaise: Thank you for having me. It's been a great discussion, so I really appreciate having this.

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Andrea W. Hanson

[Andrea Hanson]
Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker. And master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told. I would never reach my goals. But I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people, living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds. To you inspire you To achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw. Uncensored and judgment free. Listener discretion is advised
Hi everyone. This is Andrea Hanson. Thank you for joining me. I hope you are having a great week. I'm doing a little bonus episode this week for you. I want to let you in kind of behind the scenes on a new project that I have going on next month. Super excited. This is the first time I'm doing it.
The project is called the eight week mindset challenge. So why am I doing this? Why am I putting together this eight week mindset challenge? Well, look, I talked to my clients. I talked to the people on my newsletter list.
I listened to what they want. And they all want less negativity in their mindset. They want to be able to stop the negative thoughts. Especially when they're in that negative thoughts spiral. Most importantly, they want to easily be able to create and maintain.
All the different lifestyle changes that they know are going to help their health. You know, like exercising, trying different diets, getting quality, rest, things like that, that we all know help our health. And especially help your health when you're living with an auto-immune disorder. Most of the people I talked to, probably most of you all listening as well.
Our, what I call X hustlers. And I'm in that boat as well. They're used to getting things done. Used to doing it well, getting that A plus. On their performance. I am still like that. Sometimes I just went for a cleaning at the dentist. And then dentist. He said you have beautiful teeth, nothing is wrong. And I swear, I walked out of there. I was like, nailed it.
I like gave myself a high five. That's how I'm hardwired. I've brought it down a few notches, but I still love getting that a. And a lot of us who are wired like this have a hard time adjusting. To having a chronic illness, even years after we develop it. Our bodies tell us to slow down way before our minds do.
And a lot of the people that I talked to say that when they were first diagnosed, They didn't slow down at all. They fought it as long as possible. And try to keep up that status quo. I did that too. But eventually. I got the message and I knew I needed to change my lifestyle. If I was going to do well and stay healthy living with, for me, living with multiple sclerosis.
I did this bit by bit. Change different things here and there. But one of the first things I started to look at. Was my mindset. And I didn't really know. That that's what it was at the time when I was looking at it. I didn't know, like, Hey, this is my mindset. I'm going to look at it. I didn't know that what I knew was that I was really hard on myself.
I knew I had all sorts of self doubt. That made me push myself. To prove myself. And I pushed myself more than my body could handle. Because I was afraid. I was afraid of the consequences that would come if I didn't. Which it's so ironic. Because the consequences of pushing myself too hard were way worse than these perceived consequences.
That would happen if I didn't push myself. But I digress. that is for another day. But what I found when I did start looking at my negative thinking my negative, self-talk what I eventually realized was my mindset.
What I found when I started looking at this. Was a huge aha moment.
And it led me to focus on helping people primarily to tame their inner critic as well to team this negative. Self-talk. Because I saw just how much of our behavior is a reaction. To our inner critic and what our inner critic has thinking. So, let me explain a little bit more about what I noticed. When I was looking at my mindset.
I started by wanting to just be more positive. There are tons of great things that come from being positive. I know, you know what they are. I'm not going to go into it. I wanted more. Of what being positive brought me. Right. I wanted more of those great health benefits. And so I started looking at what I was thinking. I learned about how to change my thoughts. I learned about how positive and negative thoughts contributed to the results that I saw in my life, the actions that I was taking.
I learned all of that. And I ate it up. I still think it's fascinating and could talk about it all day long. But then what I did was I started to go further than just. What are my thoughts? How do I change them?
I started to hone in on where these thoughts came from. And the specifics. Of what was a positive thought? And what was actually a negative thought.
And also I went further. What was an emotion? How do emotions play into all of this? Right. I went deep, especially since I, when I first started looking at this, my emotions were like frozen. I barely even could feel. What they were, it was, I was, I was pretty, it was pretty bad. And so while I was going deep, while I was exploring all of these things that I never really explored.
While I was doing all of this. I was also doing a lot of one-on-one coaching. With people that. Mostly had multiple sclerosis. And I started seeing it, not only in me. But in the people that I talked to as well. I found out a few things. About this negative thinking.
First and foremost. Negative thinking seems to be especially tough. On those of us with a chronic illness. Because. Negative thinking. Sometimes it's really, really pervasive and it causes stress. Which in turn causes havoc on our physical bodies on our mental health. It messes with our immune systems because it causes inflammation.
All of those stress hormones that get released. Into our body that caused inflammation that caused stress within our body. And when you have a, especially an auto-immune disorder.
The last thing you want to do. Is mess with your immune system. You want it happy? You want it? Happy as a clam. And stress. Irritated. I also found out that negative thinking isn't it's not what we think it is. Like yes. There are going to be those overt negative thoughts that hurt us. That spiral that we can't get out of. Absolutely. They're there.
But. The constant pushing away. Negative thoughts, the constant worrying about. Being positive. And the constant pushing. Quote, positive thoughts on us that we don't really believe.
All of that is stressful too.

I also found that our inner critic. Is the epicenter. A lot of our most critical thoughts. All those thoughts where. We're hard on ourselves. Where we're mean to ourselves. Even sneakier, passive aggressive thoughts. Like, I'm just the kind of person that can't stay consistent. All of those thoughts. Our from our inner critic.
I also found that our inner critic. Effect. Way more. Then just us stressing out. And being hard on ourselves. Our inner critic effects. Our confidence. It makes us worry about what other people think about us. It affects how we show up in relationships, how we show up for ourself, how open. And vulnerable. We are.
Our inner critic is what causes things like imposter syndrome. Our inner critic also affects any habits. That we want to make, how quickly we start them, how much we dread making the change, how much we drag our heels before we really start some kind of a new habit. And how quickly we get back on the wagon after we have to stop for a period of time, which happens.
So the reach of the inner critic. Is long.
But the good news is I also found that we can calm the inner critic. By understanding where it comes from. And what it wants. Calming the inner critic gives us a huge advantage. For when we do want to start something like any new habit. In a nutshell. There are a few theories. Where our inner critic comes from, right? if you official theories, some say, it's our ID. Some say it's our ego, our lizard brain. There's a whole bunch of that. And I think.
It's all of the above. And then I also think there's some extra, I think that. What our inner critic says is also. An unfortunate reflection of the. Worst parts. Of our society. Right. What we think society wants from us. Which of course includes is not limited to, but includes things like ableism.
Sexism. Racism. Patriarchal thinking. And make no mistake. All of this negatively affects us no matter what your race, your gender or your ability is. And I let's just go ahead and throw in our mother. And like our third grade gym teacher as well. They're kind of tied up in that as well. I think our inner critic is a mixture of some or all of these voices.
That have affected your concept of who you are while you were growing up. That's where I think the inner critic comes from.
What the inner critic wants is a little less sinister. It wants you to be safe. It wants you to fit in with the herd. It wants your survival.
And with all of the ways that our inner critic is influenced and all of the mean things that our inner critic says to us. When it comes down to is just a misunderstood way. Of expressing love.
And that's how you calm it down. By meeting it there. At love. Now let's be clear. Right now. Of course, I am not saying that you sit there. And say, I love you inner critic for telling me that I'm worthless. No. No, no, no, that is not what I am saying. And that is not how you do it. And I am definitely not telling you. That what the inner critic says is true. That is a big, no, as well. So let's just be clear on both of those things. What I did too, was I developed a method. I developed the ladder method.
To get us safely. Out of the hole that can be dug by listening to our inner critic all these years. Sometimes we're listening to things and we don't even realize it's our inner critic. Like I said, it's kind of sneaky. It's a little slide because a lot of times these are things that we grew up with.
And just kind of didn't question because we just believed it. And so this ladder method gets us out of that helps us identify all of these other ways of the inner critic is affecting us. And helps us get away from it. Helps us climb out of that hole.
And that's just one of the things that I am teaching. In the eight week mindset challenge. So I'm helping people master the ladder method and to become so fluent in it, that it becomes an automatic response. When the inner critic does speak up. Which is much less once we learn how to talk to it. Now there's a few other parts of this challenge that are really important just quickly, first.
Understanding what I call the whole mindset method. Which is. To say that, that, you know, the whole mindset, positive, negative thoughts and feelings are together more than the sum of its parts. Right. More than just thinking positively. And that's pretty sure that's Aristotle.
I should've looked that up. I think that's Aristotle saying the sum is greater than the whole of its parts. Meaning that when all the parts are working together, there's a reaction that's created. That's even more powerful. Then the most powerful part on its own.
When we use our whole mindset together, getting to that place of increased happiness and self compassion is so much easier. And it's done without that toxic positivity feeling. Because we're not simply relying on always being positive. Right. We're putting it together with other parts of our mind as well. And we're able to get to our happy.
Calm place. If you will. Faster. And more naturally. . Another thing I'm teaching is. Getting quality. Rest and relaxation. How to turn off the mind. Is as important. As learning how to work on it. I teach what I call active resting and how to fit more of it into your day. So you give yourself a break on a much more regular basis than you probably do right now.
Now I love this challenge. This is the first time I'm teaching all of these things together. As oh, cohesive lesson, I've taught all of these things separately with clients over the years, and I've had great results. But when we learn these all together, The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
So, if you want to learn more about this eight week mindset challenge, that's going to happen in September and learn all of this so that you can stop being so hard on yourself. You can increase. Self-compassion increase overall happiness. And I think most importantly, or one of the most important parts.
Is to be able to use your mindset as a powerful tool to help you easily create, maintain this lifestyle changes that you've been putting off that, you know, Are good for your health and good to optimize your health, even while you're living with a chronic illness. And you know me. This is all going to be taught without pushing that whole positive vibes. Only crap.
All you have to do right now is join the waitlist. Andrea Hanson coaching.com forward slash courses is where you can sign up. The class starts next month. That's a week after labor day. For those of you in the states.
When you get on the waitlist you're going to get more information. You're going to get logistics like what the class community is about, how you're going to get lifetime access to the workshops and the lessons and the community. How you're going to get access to me every week during these eight weeks for coaching and question and answers.
And you're going to learn exactly what we talk about for each of the eight weeks of that mindset challenge. And you can always ask me questions directly about the challenge. So Andrea Hanson, coaching.com forward slash courses.
I joined the waitlist. The doors for registration are going to open soon. And the wait list gets first dibs. On the spots. Now I'm keeping this small, like I always do when I'm running a class for the first time. So get in now. And you'll get all kinds of access to me that won't be there. As I develop this class for later cohorts.
The link to join. The waitlist is also in this episode description. Remember the good news. Is that we can stop fighting our negative self-talk. We can stop getting mad at it. We can stop calling our beautiful brains assholes. And we can calm it down. So it's not so mean. And we're not so hard on ourselves.
It makes life. So much easier when you don't have that proverbial critic, looking over your shoulder, criticizing what you're doing all the time. Join the waitlist for the 8 week mindset, challenge and learn more. And if you're listening to this after September, it's okay. Go to this link anyway, and I'm going to tell you the next time that doors open for the eight week mindset challenge.
So I'm going to talk to you all about how to get in. If you're listening to this after September. Andrea Hanson, coaching.com forward slash courses. Link is in this episode description. And I hope to see you in there.
That's it for now. I hope this helped demystify a little bit, what the inner critic is, why we're so hard on ourselves, why it feels like we're such assholes to ourselves sometimes. And. Help you understand, like, It's something that we can 100% change I hope you have a good rest of your week And i will see you next week on the next podcast Take care

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Amanda Dahl

Have you ever heard about a type of therapy for the first time that maybe you had never heard about, but other people are raving saying it's really helped them, like maybe a type of massage that you've never had or a new way of meditating. And you've thought to yourself, what the hell? All right, I'll give it a go. I'll see what happens. It can't hurt.
It might help. Let's see what people are talking about. That was me. When I went to my first acupuncture appointment years ago. I admit, I didn't find total relief from it, like other people had, but I tried other therapies that this particular clinic had like craniosacral massage. And I found a few therapies that really, really worked. Even if I couldn't really explain what exactly was happening. Where they all had in common was it was energy work.
And I would not have believed in it if I hadn't tried it myself. There's quite a few therapies that work with energy and this previous skeptic finds them all pretty fascinating. And some of them. Really really effective. Which is why I'm really excited about this week's guest. Amanda Dahl. Amanda has had a long journey with Lyme disease and it wasn't just her. It was her entire family that was affected and she's also had other diagnoses.
And illnesses in her life. and she found energy work along the way, looking for different therapies and things that could help and now she and her husband have their own practice, offering many energy work therapies. And coaching for people with Lyme. So in this week's episode, Amanda gives us an introduction into holistic healing.
Exactly what energy work really is and how it can help. So please enjoy this week's episode and visit Andrea Hanson, coaching.com for more on Amanda Dahl resources. We talk about in the show. And transcripts from today's episode. You can find the link. In the episode description. Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker. And master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told. I would never reach my goals. But I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people, living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds. To you inspire you To achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw. Uncensored and judgment free. Listener discretion is advised
[00:02:45] Andrea: I'm here with Amanda Dahl. Amanda entered the holistic health scene after her own intense journey with chronic illness and eventual remission from Lyme disease. With her gentle guidance and fresh approach, clients who have quote unquote tried everything, enjoy accelerated healing and renewed hope. Physical, emotional, and spiritual needs are considered as Amanda leads clients to a life of health and new possibilities. Amanda and her husband, Christopher Co-own Dahl Holistic Health, where they use energy healing, health and soul coaching, muscle testing, energy sensing.
Somatic exercises and mindset work to activate people's vitality so they can thrive. Welcome, Amanda. How are you?
[00:03:29] Amanda: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Andrea. I'm great. How are you?
[00:03:32] Andrea: I am great. I am so excited to talk to you about all things energy healing. I was really excited cause I don't talk about that a whole lot and I know some people love it. And want to hear more about what you do. Some people are completely skeptical and they're thinking like, Andrea, why are you talking about this?
[00:03:49] Amanda: Right.
[00:03:51] Andrea: And I want to talk about it a little bit more cuz I think it's something that people know, but they don't necessarily know the specifics of it and like really what it is. We're going to talk all things energy healing, but I first want to hear a little bit more about your health journey because you said it was intense, and I think what makes it a little bit different is that it's not just your journey.
You weren't the only person that was having this illness. It was your whole family.
[00:04:18] Amanda: Yeah. Yep. It was wild. My health journey started literally at birth. I was born with a hole in my heart. Had my first open heart surgery at four years old. All kinds of health issues. I'm just one of those people. I had all kinds of health issues and then in my late teen years, I started having just a lot more.
Unusual symptoms that typically people with Lyme disease experience. I was having a lot of vertigo, a lot of digestive issues migrating arthritis kind of feelings headaches, oh my gosh, such headaches. Night sweats, rashes, you name it. All sorts of strange And and my husband and I, we met when we were 15, so we've been together for a long time and he was starting to not do so well.
And by now, like fast forward a couple of years, we're in our early twenties, we're now married. And, he was falling apart in different ways. He was having a lot of issues with his kidneys. He was also having migraines, neck pain, like neck pain all the time for him. A lot of gastrointestinal issues.
this went on for us, for, we went back as far as we could remember, the more Lyme kind of symptoms. And we attracted back to from the time that we were diagnos. , and it was just, it was wild, a lot of tests and, I had a hysterectomy. It was just the symptoms were so bad and of course it didn't alleviate any of the pain and it was just, , a really long road.
And in, in the middle of all of this, had a child not
[00:05:56] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:05:56] Amanda: That we had Lyme disease. It was just, there was a lot. It, those. Have an illness that's difficult to diagnose, oftentimes experience this, where you see, 20 some odd doctors, you're being recommended, oh, why don't you see this specialist and why don't you see this specialist?
And at one point in everybody's journey, it's inevitable that well, have you seen a therapist?
You go on some anxiety medication? Cause this is a lot of anxiety that you're experiencing and it. I'm having anxiety because I'm sick and nobody seems to know what's wrong. So that went on for 18 years.
And then my son was actually diagnosed first because he was diagnosed with autism
And in the diagnostic report they had done a lot of blood work on him, unbeknownst to us some of the blood work that they just ran a quick panel on he actually tested positive. On one of the tests for Lyme disease that typically people, only about a 40% chance of getting a positive on and this particular test, miss misses a lot of um, and he actually did test positive.
And when we to work with a doctor for him more of the autism stuff, the doctor happened to be Lyme literate and she said, Tell me about your health. And she looked at my husband and I, and at this point we still weren't diagnosed.
[00:07:23] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:07:24] Amanda: um, And that was, you know, 18 years into this. And we started telling her and she's your son tested positive for Lyme.
I think you all have Lyme. And
[00:07:32] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:07:32] Amanda: you know, Here we go. That was the beginning of our journey.
[00:07:36] Andrea: Okay, so I'm curious because lime comes from a tick bite, is that correct? Is that the only way you can get it?
[00:07:44] Amanda: He, that's one of the ways that you can get it. You can get Lyme disease from any vector insect, so mosquitos, fleas, chiggers, you can get certain infections that come along with Lyme disease.
Get them from if you've ever heard the song Cat Scratch Fever,
[00:08:02] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:08:03] Amanda: actually a co-infection that a lot of people with Lyme disease have.
It's called Bartinella,
[00:08:07] Andrea: Oh, interesting.
[00:08:08] Amanda: because you don't just get Lyme typically, which is, it's the bacteria is called Borrelia. You typically don't get just Borrelia. You also typically will get, you know, Bebisia, Bartonella, Rocky Mountain, spotted Fever, tick Lauren, relapsing fever, there's all these. Mixes of things, and some people get a lot of them, other people only get a couple of them.
Like it's a total it's a total,
[00:08:34] Andrea: Wow.
[00:08:35] Amanda: as to what you get. But yeah,
[00:08:37] Andrea: So much bigger than
I thought.
[00:08:39] Amanda: It absolutely is. They're also finding that there is some sexual transmission. It, they're finding evidence now that it can be passed from mother to baby and we have consulted with three different doctors that feel that is what happened in my son's case.
They also feel that he has lyme induced autism. So there was a lot of, things that kind of cascaded with this diagnosis for us.
[00:09:07] Andrea: Okay, cuz I was going to ask if it was that you passed Lyme down to your son, or if it was just coincidentally he happened to get it himself, but it sounds like he had it.
[00:09:17] Amanda: He had it. And what we think, Andrea, we think that he was bitten by a tick and it was reactivated because when
[00:09:24] Andrea: Oh.
[00:09:25] Amanda: test he was, there's ways that they can tell is this an older infection or a newer infection? And he actually lit up on, on both parts. they were like, this was something that was already in his system.
And we did know that he had a tick bite when he was almost eight. So we knew that there was a tick bite there and we think that reactivated things. But he had characteristics of Lyme since birth. It was very interesting.
[00:09:52] Andrea: Wow,
[00:09:53] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:09:53] Andrea: That's quite a journey. And I want to specify that it's not just any tick bite. It's not just if you find a tick, you're going to freak out because you have lime. It's if the ticks are infected with lime. Is that right?
[00:10:05] Amanda: Yes.
[00:10:05] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:10:06] Amanda: and there are places that people, I tell people if you find a tick on you, it's very easy to just want to get rid of the tick and flush it down the toilet
[00:10:14] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:15] Amanda: It out the car window or, whatever. But I tell people, save the tick. Because there are organizations that you can send the tick to and they can test.
To see what does the tick have, because that can be helpful for the person who's been bitten by the tick because most people don't get that, that bullseye rash that they talk about. Most people don't actually get that rash. They estimate only about 30 to 40% of people get any kind of rash on their skin.
I tell people save the tick. The other thing about the rash that I just want to say is if you have that bullseye rash, that is indicative that you have Lyme disease. So it is imperative that you treat the sooner that you can treat, which is. U usually antibiotics. You would go to your primary care, tell them that you were bitten by a tick, that you have the bullseye rash and ask them for antibiotics to try to treat as quickly as possible because we don't want it to go deep into the tissues and then have it become a chronic issue.
[00:11:22] Andrea: Because it is, it's a bacteria, right? It's a bacteria infection,
[00:11:26] Amanda: yeah. the, the Borrelia is a bacteria,
[00:11:29] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:30] Amanda: Are some other things that you can get that are, viral and all sorts of other things. But usually that rash is indicative of the Borrelia bacteria.
[00:11:39] Andrea: So the earlier that you get it and the earlier you treat it, the better.
[00:11:42] Amanda: The better your chances are of it not going chronic. 85% of the people if they.
A tick bite that they know about and they see that rash and they have antibiotics right away. 85% of people will, they'll be okay,
[00:11:59] Andrea: Mm.
[00:12:00] Amanda: 15% Of those people that. It will continue, the disease process will continue and it will develop into something deeper. So that's why I tell people like it's really important and if, if the doctor says, oh, we don't have Lyme around here, or those sorts of things, cuz that's very popular worldwide for patients to be gaslit on that.
I tell people, find another doctor.
[00:12:21] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:12:22] Amanda: is imperative that you treat as fast as.
[00:12:25] Andrea: Yeah, I know I. Different now, but I know for a very long time in my state they didn't have lime . And so even if you said Hey, I think I have this, they literally wouldn't, they would refuse cuz they're like, we don't have it. And it doesn't matter if you were like maybe vacationing in another state and got, didn't matter.
And so you literally would have to go to another state to get the test or send it away somewhere because the doctors were just dug in that Nope, we don't have that. It's not, that's not it.
[00:12:55] Amanda: Yeah. And there's a lot of people in our medical community, again worldwide that still feel that way. Oh, we don't have, we don't have Lyme disease here. it's important for people to know that Lyme is in all 50 states in the
[00:13:09] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:13:10] Amanda: States, and it has been found in every country with the except exception of Antarctica.
It's Just something that isn't talked about enough. But it is the fastest growing vector illness in the United States,
[00:13:26] Andrea: And I just find it so fascinating that nobody was talking about it for so long. Like it's just, to me, it just doesn't make sense. It's if it's something that majority of people can be treated with antibiotics, which you know, are prescribed for everything anyway, why? Why is it still so hard?
[00:13:45] Amanda: I think it's hard because in the medical community they're they didn't know a lot when people were first getting sick with Lyme disease. And Lyme disease has been around for thousands of years. Like they found it in the iceman that they found, like they, that the iceman had Lyme disease,
[00:14:03] Andrea: Wow.
[00:14:03] Amanda: know, Infections, just like Covid, right?
Covid morphed into all these different strains. Lyme disease does the same thing and it's very strong and and it's very hard to treat. I think that there was just such a lack of information in the beginning. People didn't understand and then, people really thought that it was isolated to more of the New England.
That's why it's called Lyme disease. Because originally it was a group of children in Lyme, Connecticut that they all came down with these arthritic symptoms at the same time and they realized it was caused by a, tick.
So it. They thought it was isolated to New England for many years.
And of course it's not, and there's different strains depending on what country you live in and what part of the United States you live in.
So much information out there. And also, the Inve Infectious Disease Society of America, you know, they kind of, that group of.
Feels, you know, oh, some antibiotics and you're done.
There's another group of doctors out there that they're called ilads. It's a Lyme disease organization, but doctors that are under ilads feel. That we, there's still a large population of people that need more than 30 days of antibiotics.
They need long-term therapies and a lot of times it involves alternative treatments. So you're talking antibiotics, but maybe you're also talking, IV therapy. People do things like oxygen, deep dive therapy. Sometimes people do hyperthermia. So there's, and that group of doctors believes.
This is like a crisis in the medical community. So there's a little bit of controversy there. So I tell people, cut through the controversy. At the end of the day, we want you to get better.
We're thankful for our doctors If they can help us get a diagnosis, which in some cases that's difficult, but if they're having a hard time, I tell people, let's find you an ILADS doctor.
You know, Somebody that can give you the testing and that can do some long-term treatment with you. several doctors have lost their licenses for treating people for long-term Lyme disease. So that's another reason why there's some controversy in the medical community about it. So I
[00:16:19] Andrea: Wow.
[00:16:19] Amanda: I tell people, let's cut through that and let's just get you the help that you need.
Cuz
[00:16:22] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:16:23] Amanda: here,
[00:16:23] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:16:24] Amanda: I know both sides of the coin. I don't want people to spend their time getting upset about the controversy. It's let's just get you the help that you need. And I know the resources to do that. So now that you're with me let's, let's
[00:16:37] Andrea: Right,
[00:16:37] Amanda: Need.
[00:16:38] Andrea: Which one helped you when you finally got that diagnosis? Was it the antibiotics? Antibiotics that worked, or did you have to do a lot of other therapy as well since you had been living with it for so long?
[00:16:49] Amanda: And that's a great question. For me, Andrea, I'm allergic to so many antibiotics that wasn't a treatment option for me.
[00:16:57] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:16:57] Amanda: By the time they figured it out I was in a, I was, they call it chronic Lyme disease, so I, I'm in a chronic state, so I had to really look beyond conventional medicine because I couldn't go that route.
at
all So I started working with a naturopath who was very well versed in herbs which really piqued my interest in herbal medicine because I learned all of the herbs that treat. The Lyme and the different co-infections and went on, I went on to school to become an herbalist so that I can make recommendations to people for their own herbal protocols.
I also used essential oils and I know that there's, a lot of people uh, you know, essential oils but um, you know, it is a type of herbal medicine. And I used oils as, some of my antimicrobial treatment because, they're very potent. So that was a route for me.
And then eventually I did get into energy medicine and I can dive into that a little deeper as we talk. But that was really the thing that kind of brought me across the finish line was doing multifaceted approach. To healing from this cuz it, I had been sick for so long
Wasn't a matter of 30 days of antibiotics and we're done.
I couldn't do that.
Yeah,
[00:18:12] Andrea: I mean, by the way, 30 days of antibiotics is no joke. That's a lot.
[00:18:16] Amanda: It is a lot. And there, even that guideline out there um, even a lot of doctors won't even prescribe that long.
[00:18:24] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:18:24] Amanda: but you really need a little bit of a longer term because you've gotta get into the life cycle of the
[00:18:31] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:32] Amanda: Itself, the bacteria itself. So you need to take it for a little bit of time
You can wipe out that infection.
But
[00:18:37] Andrea: yeah.
[00:18:38] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:18:39] Andrea: Talk a little bit about your mindset while you were going through this because you were seriously affected.
For a very long time and you were going from specialist to specialist trying to figure out what's going on. What helped you throughout that period or, or was there anything that helped you while you were going through that?
[00:19:02] Amanda: Yeah, such a good question. Um, What helped me was that, I loved my husband.
[00:19:10] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:19:11] Amanda: I wanted to get better for him, and I know that he wanted the same for me. then when our child had all these health challenges, was like, okay, now we have, we all have to get better for each other. And that helped me to hold on.
Just having, just people in my life that I love so fiercely that it's like, okay, I've, we've gotta find the answers to this because it's. Lyme disease is very hard to find the answers, even when anybody that's been through it. When you are diagnosed with Lyme and I make this as a joke with my clients to lighten things up a little bit, but it's really the truth.
You go into a research rabbit hole because the blessing and the curse of Lyme disease is what I call it. The blessing is that there's so many different ways to. But the curse is that there's so many different ways to treat it. And the hard thing is finding the right combination of treatments for each individual person.
We end up with an honorary doctorate how to treat Lyme disease. If you ask any Lyme patient, that's been in it for a while, they can probably tell you 15 different treatments that they've done right off the top of their. So it's a matter of finding those right combinations and that's, that's what it became for me.
It almost became a puzzle. How can we solve this? What's the next thing? I think the thing that was really helpful was that I understood because I was a patient from moment I came out, I had health things that were going on and I understood. it comes to healthcare, there is no quick, easy fix.
is no magical pill that you're going to take. There's no magical treatment that's just going to take it all away. And I think my understanding of that kept me going because I knew, okay, if I do this treatment and it gets me 20% of the way there, that's 20% better than I felt before, and that's going to gi just give me that fuel to keep on going.
I had a child to take care of in the middle of all of this, right? So I think that whole combination of things was really what fueled me to keep going and to keep learning and to keep trying different things,
[00:21:34] Andrea: I think that's a really good perspective to have because I think if we're looking for that one thing or that one doctor, or even sometimes that one diagnosis,
[00:21:45] Amanda: right?
[00:21:46] Andrea: And put all of our hope into that one thing. It can be devastating when it doesn't work or it doesn't come, or it's the wrong diagnosis and it can be so hard to bounce back often.
The many times that's going to happen while you're looking for, especially if it's a hard to diagnose. Issue. And so looking at it from the sense of okay, let's just get the whole idea of one pill, one treatment, one diagnosis. Let's just take that whole thing off the table and just start with that understanding that it's going to be maybe multiple things.
And if one works a little bit, that doesn't mean that it's failed. It means that it worked a little bit. And let's go from.
[00:22:30] Amanda: And I think the other thing to, to address when it comes to Lyme treatment is that aside from that little bit of antibiotic that. Be able to take if you're lucky and caught in the beginning. none of this is covered by insurance.
[00:22:45] Andrea: Wow.
[00:22:47] Amanda: Lyme disease is on top of being physically and emotionally devastating to the body.
It is devistating to the pocketbook. And I speak from a place, like it's not lost on me that I had privilege in this because I, I had money saved, I had credit cards that I could use. I had resources. And a lot of the clients that I work with, they don't have that same kind.
Pool of resources like that. Some of them don't even have a family support system because it's, another thing that happens is that a lot of people just, it's a drag being around sick people, So people will just walk outta your life or fall out of your life. Not only because they, you know, they're not trying to be rotten people, but it's just it's hard to watch somebody that you care about going through that.
But I think a lot of times people don't know what to.
Then you know, you're sick, you're broke, you're alone. You're trying to go through all of this. What I did while I was treating, because it, we, it was three of us. documented everything. I documented what worked, what didn't work, why I felt that maybe something didn't work.
Um, you know, And then as I've gone back and looked at all of that through the years, I'm like, oh, wow. If I knew then what I know now, I would've known Nev never to try that particular treatment,
[00:24:07] Andrea: Oh wow. Yeah.
[00:24:08] Amanda: But I'm able to help steer people, take some shortcuts. You know what, the return on this is typically very small for people.
So if you just move to this instead,
[00:24:20] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:21] Amanda: Thing that happens is, there's so many supplements that people end up taking in this journey cuz there's multiple phases of treatment that you have to do. And sometimes what happens is people are diagnosed and then immediately, whoever the treating practitioner is, they'll just put them on antimicrobials right away.
Whether that's herbs antibiotics or whatever the case might. gets even sicker and it's you know what? If there's anything that I've learned in this journey, you have to pay attention to draining your lymph and being able to detox your body before you start taking things to kill all this off.
Because otherwise all those toxins are floating around and they're reabsorbing. So those are the things that I've learned in this journey that I can save people a boatload of
[00:25:05] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:06] Amanda: And trouble,
[00:25:08] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:08] Amanda: By saying, let's do it in this.
And it helps people a lot because financially people very oftentimes will run out of money and then they're doing bare minimums.
They're not taking maybe the doses that would be therapeutic for them, and they're just hoping and praying that those minimal doses of just a couple of things that they're taking are going to get them over the finish line. And unfortunately, that's usually not the case.
It's just, there's just facets to all of it.
[00:25:39] Andrea: There really are. And it sounds like, It sounds like there, since there are so many facets of um, treatment, there's also a lot of facets of how it affects each person. Am my right. It sounds like everybody's going to be different. How did you know that you and your husband and your son all had the same thing, or did you not until you got tested?
[00:26:00] Amanda: We well, my husband and I suspected, we didn't realize that maybe my son Lyme,
But we suspected that we did because we had done tests for everything under the sun. You know, That the MRIs for MS and, and you know,
[00:26:16] Andrea: Yep.
[00:26:17] Amanda: All the blood testing and everything. There's this one particular test, it's considered one of the gold standard tests for Lyme disease.
And even then it's, probably around 90% accurate.
This test is just a basic Borrelia, just the Lyme bacteria panel. It's about between two 50 and $300. And then if you want to test for all the other infections, it's about a $1,200. We were willing to pay for this test and we were begging our primary care physician.
All we need is your signature and a blood draw right here in your office that we can get this test. And the doctor said to my husband, if I sign for you to have this test, when it comes back negative, will you finally admit that there's nothing wrong with you?
[00:27:05] Andrea: Jaw wrap.
[00:27:07] Amanda: yeah. Again, devastating.
There's a lot of gaslighting when
[00:27:11] Andrea: Mm.
[00:27:11] Amanda: Have, and it's not just Lyme. There's a lot of different complex chronic illnesses that people get very gas lit.
But when the test came back, sad thing was when you test for Lyme, they call it bands. They basically take your blood and they test it against a bunch of different reactants.
They call 'em reactants and they do 10 of them. And each one is called a band. So at the time you had to have five bands with these reactants in order to be considered positive. My test came back with four, technically was negative. So when that, so then when we ended up with that naturopath that was working with my son and she started asking us about our health um, shared with.
That we had, the doctor did sign for that test and I shared the results with her because I carry around like the big three ring binder with every test in it,
[00:28:12] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:28:13] Amanda: and she said, yeah, where there's smoke, there's fire. She said, I've never been a believer in it has to be X amount of bands. She said, if something is showing up, then it's in your body.
[00:28:26] Andrea: Right, Because if you didn't have anything, there would be zero bands, like it wouldn't show
up, Right,
[00:28:34] Amanda: So again, you know, one of those crazy things, I'm sure if anybody is in Lyme world that is listening to this, they're like, oh my gosh. They get it.
But the thing too, with Lyme disease, That a lot of people don't realize is that Lyme does not necessarily have to be a diagnosis through testing.
Actually be diagnosed with Lyme based off symptoms. You just have to work with a doctor who. Understands what the symptoms are and can put that diagnosis on your chart. And in many states, people end up working with naturopaths because they understand that they'll, they'll still, they'll sign for you to get the tests.
And most states, sometimes New York's a little tricky. But you get that testing done. And a lot of them, a lot of naturopaths especially believe in the, where there's smoke, there's fire, and. Will treat for Lyme disease when they're seeing results like that.
[00:29:31] Andrea: So you find out that yes, you have Lyme and you start looking at the treatments and you know that the traditional western treatment of antibiotics is just not an option for you.
[00:29:41] Amanda: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:42] Andrea: And you start looking at different things. Where did energy work fall in line? Is this something that you were into beforehand?
Cuz you worked at a hospital before this right?
[00:29:54] Amanda: I did. So I worked at a hospital. I was the office manager for two programs. I worked for the diabetes program and I worked for the cholesterol management program. So not exactly like hearing about Lyme disease in these avenues, but I learned a. You know about patient care, the medical system, the inner workings of the medical system.
And before I worked at the hospital, I had actually worked in health insurance. I mean, Whew, that was a, that was a rough job, but I learned a lot about, how to navigate the insurance company and appeals and all of that stuff. So I came at it with all of that experience. I was a very, conventional.
Medicine brain, you know, when you're sick, you go to your doctor. I think that's how most of us in this country are raised. When you're sick, you go to your doctor and they give you a diagnosis, and you take a treatment and you get better and you're done and you move on with your life.
And when we were diagnosed with Lyme, that was our foray into natural medicine and it opened us up to natural medicine Then what happened was, you know, we were, I would say we were like 80% better, the herbs and the oils and, the treatments that we were doing with the naturopath, they were really making a good impact.
And, you know, and we kind of just, we were naturally positive about it cuz honestly we were so happy to have a diagnosis
When we started taking things, we were starting to feel better. That it was, life was getting a lot better at that point. So I had a. I was, I'm a homeschooling mom.
My, my son actually just graduated last May, but at the time, we were still in the throes of homeschooling. And another homeschooling mom said, Hey, my kids have both graduated. I'm a massage therapist by trade, posted on one of the mom boards. And I work with people that have like complex issues with their health, with cancer and, people that need a lot of sensitivity when they're having.
So I connected with her and I said, Hey, would you come over and do massages? Because I'm in Southern California and for those of us that live here, we know like mobile massage is a big thing. Like people come to your house, you don't necessarily have to go to a clinic. So she came to our house and she got all set up and she gave me a massage.
like I had no idea what reiki was, what energy work was like, not even in my brain at all, but I knew what a massage felt like, right? I think most of us know what a massage feels like. I, that was the most amazing massage of my life. I was seeing colors and I was feeling like all these ripples of warmth going through my body, and I'm like, this is some kind of magical massage.
I don't know what's going on here. And I, going into the massage had such bad brain fog I ha, I. Ever do a conversation like we're doing now. And when I, and she, was working on my neck and, she held my head in her hands and it was just amazing. And when I got off that table, first of all, brain fog was gone.
It was like magic. That was probably the most miraculous thing that happened in, in our entire healing journey, was that particular massage. I said That was a wonderful massage. But what else was happening? Because I, and I told her, I'm like, I was seeing color at one point I was seeing like birds, you know, and I'm like that that was just different than anything I had ever experienced.
And she said, you're the first person that's ever said that to me. I was doing a little bit of reiki while I did your massage. And I said, okay, here's the deal. From now on, can you just come and do that. I don't care so much about the massage, but can you do the reiki? Cuz it, it felt amazing. So then it was a couple of times a month she would come and do reiki and it just, it know, now I understand what it is.
It's helping to remove some of the blockages that we have in our body and, relieves tension and everything else. I didn't know that at the time. And that was my first kind of foray into energy healing. And then once we crossed that line into remission, I was like, you know what?
That was just so impactful. I need to go and learn how to do that myself. So I took a class and then I kept taking classes and my husband was taking classes and we became, we call them reiki masters, which is just when you've gone through the full training. I also went on to become a medical reiki master so that I can I have certification to do reiki for people that are in hospitals and in operating rooms.
so it really became a passion, but it helps all of us. And to this day, we still do reiki on each other every week. It's just cuz it just feels so good.
[00:34:49] Andrea: So for people who don't know what Reiki is, what is a good explanation for people who have not experienced it? And let's be honest, might be sitting here thinking, okay, this just took a turn.
[00:35:03] Amanda: Yeah. They're like, oh, we're going into cuckoo land.
[00:35:05] Andrea: We just took a left. What is happening?
[00:35:08] Amanda: Yeah. Reiki is it's a Japanese energy healing technique. It can be done hands-on or remotely. And how it works is that you're really relying on the quantum energy, right? When, When you're moving. You're moving it basically with your thought. And I know like science fiction movies, they sometimes show that person, like if you concentrate really hard, they can move an object.
They are ongoing experiments, honestly, by our government that they are doing experimentation for things like that because they have found that. When you're using quantum energy, you can move things. Now on a lighter scale, when we're doing energy work, what I'm doing, like when I'm connected with a client, of course I always ask permission, can I connect so that I can look at your energy field and do some work?
But what I'm doing is I'm getting a sense of I'm, I'm, I'm moving the energy through, not my energy, energy that is intended for that person and I'm moving it through their energy field. I'm basically looking. Where is it getting hung up? Where might there be a blockage? So an example that most people have felt in their lives of an energetic blockage is a A headache is a major energetic blockage. When you've got so much. Energy, so much information moving around your brain that sometimes it causes us to, especially like a tension headache when we're getting it in the front. We'll get a headache from that. That is a type of energetic blockage. If you get nervous and let's say you have to speak.
And all of a sudden your throat, you have to keep clearing your throat because you're getting nervous. That's an example of an energetic blockage. It's your body saying, oh boy, this part of the body is going to be affected and get it. It's getting nervous. So your body will try to go into protection mode and make it, oh well, they're nervous to talk, so let's make it so they don't have to talk.
Let's block up the throat. Or another example is if you start to get really. And your stomach starts to get queasy. are all, that's biology mixing with the energy system of your body to create some kind of protection. So when I'm looking at your energy, I'm actually helping your energy to relax and come out of that heightened state.
you ca the energy can keep on flowing. Another example that I like to share with people of how this kind of works between two people, because people are like how are you connecting to somebody else? I understand how those feelings are within me, but how does that work with somebody else?
the example I like to share is you've ever had a time where all of a sudden you haven't seen or talked to in a really long time, they keep popping into your brain and then all of a. They call you or you bump into each other and you're like, oh my gosh, I was just thinking about you.
Well, What that is, is it's, your energies are kind of talking to each other and energy attracts energy, so it will try to bring you together, and it's like, oh wow, that's amazing. I was just, let's get together and catch up because you've bumped into each other. Those are the kinds of ways that energy is at work in our.
All the time. so when we're doing energy work, I'm connecting with a person. W you know, when I have their permission, it's yes, I, I'm going to allow you to connect with my energy, then we can do that that correction, that energetic correction in their body. And it can be very and the way to the most basic of descriptions is it's like saying we're we each are wifi and we're connecting,
Like through wifi, like that.
[00:39:04] Andrea: I think it's interesting because everybody has, I think, their own idea of energy and what it is, and some people maybe pay more attention than others. But on just a basic level, feeling things like energy, like you, you can tell when some people like walk into a room.
[00:39:24] Amanda: Yes.
[00:39:24] Andrea: You can just feel that energy and there's no, you know what I mean? i, you may not be able to describe it or to say what it is. You just, it's like this force that you can feel like if you've ever seen, like if you've ever had the chance to meet somebody who is a. Maybe a really powerful public speaker or a really, like a celebrity or someone that is, that kind of feels larger than life.
They have that energy and so
[00:39:51] Amanda: Yes.
[00:39:52] Andrea: can definitely feel other people's energy. That was, you know, when I first heard about this stuff, I was like, what? Come on. But then I started thinking it's like, wait a second. You can feel other people's energy and it's, even if you don't even aren't even looking at them walking into the room.
You can tell when they're in the room or you can feel somebody looking at you or you can feel somebody when they're really focused on you. And that's really was the very basic level of where I stepped into like, oh yeah, there is this thing.
[00:40:22] Amanda: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:22] Andrea: And if there's this thing with one person, there's probably something for every single person.
And why would it be that, you can't connect? Like of course you can.
[00:40:30] Amanda: Right, right. And you know, and there are some people that are like, I'm not into that, and that's totally okay.
[00:40:37] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:40:38] Amanda: I have people that I work with every day that we never talk about the energy aspect of healing. my whole thing is I feel when somebody is healing. a complex health condition, we always start with the physical.
We all do because that's how we're brought up. Get sick, go to the doctor.
Start getting some of those physical things under control, it's okay, let's start looking at the energetic. Let's see what else is going on in the body. And then, okay, now let's start going to the emotional side of things, right?
Like I, I'm an emotion code practitioner, so
[00:41:12] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:13] Amanda: I'm, I'm tapping into the energy field the same way that I am with reiki. But what I'm doing is I'm asking your body or your subconscious, cuz we're doing that work through the subconscious, but I'm asking it, okay, what, what is the trapped emotion that is in your energy field that's holding you?
That you're now ready to release, and the subconscious will, it will release that information. You know, And I'll be I, I do like a, a chart and I'll read off the emotions and there's, there will be a in the person's energy field. And then I'll know, okay, this is an emotion that is stuck in your system.
We start releasing those and all of a sudden people are sleeping better, they're feeling better. They're like, oh, I feel lighter. Because we're, we're moving that. Through their body where before it was stuck. So I believe that, you know, you have to address the energetic component. And then I also believe that the other thing that I've really learned a lot about in the past year is, balancing the limbic system of the brain.
Because when we have these conditions going on, we're thinking about things a certain way for so long that we actually change the neuroplasticity in our. And it becomes harder to heal because we're thinking in one direction all the time, and it's traumatic illness is traumatic. So when we have traumatic things that happen, our brain is affected.
And, that cascades, it goes through the vestibular system of the body, the nervous system of the body. We, we can't come out of these heightened states. We're in fight or flight all the time. So it's like all of my work goes through all these. Phases of healing.
It's not just physically healing. So there's a lot of ways we approach it.
[00:42:57] Andrea: Yeah, I think a really good example is the, we're good on paper kind of a thing,
[00:43:03] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:43:04] Andrea: yet
[00:43:04] Amanda: Yep.
[00:43:04] Andrea: we're still not feeling quite like something's still off.
[00:43:08] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:43:08] Andrea: And you know, I have a diagnosis. I'm taking the medication, I am doing everything nutrition wise.
I am not eating certain things I'm taking. Like you can list it off and it looks great on paper.
[00:43:20] Amanda: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:21] Andrea: Then we know just in a gut kind of feeling like, ugh, then like, why am I not feeling awesome? Why am I not feeling like everything's fantastic? And often that's when people start saying maybe I should stop eating this.
Maybe I'm allergic to this and I don't know about it. Or maybe I should add supplements. And I feel like there's just this whole. Side of things that is maybe sometimes overlooked because it's something that we've never experienced before. We don't really understand it. We think it's too woo. I'm always of the, of the thought of just trying it like like even if it works because it's a placebo effect, because you think so.
Great.
[00:44:06] Amanda: Right. Well, you know, And it's funny too because, when we've reached a certain point in healing that it's okay, what's next? Because like you said, something is still off.
People are, they're dead set. They do not want to do any kind of energy work or anything. And I'll say what do you think about me?
Just can I just like connect to you for maybe five minutes just so I can go in and just look at what your energy's doing? And and I'll get in there and maybe I'm seeing like, there's like a big spot of blocked energy on their hip. And I'm like, okay, has something happened to your right?
they're like, what? And all of a
[00:44:46] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:44:46] Amanda: on something. They're like, yeah, I fell on that hip. Or ultimately we connect to something that they've never mentioned to me. I had a woman who she kept on, it was like over her left ovary and we had done several sessions and every time we worked on that left ovary, it was like just strong.
I don't want to say a blockage, but there was like a pocket of energy that I just couldn't get it to move. I finally said to her, I said, have you had something traumatic happen? You had a miscarriage? Or, and she was like I did, I had a miscarriage. And, and she said and I said I'm seeing it on your left side.
And she goes, oh my gosh. It was my left side that hurt so much the day that it happened, blah, blah. Acknowledging that for her and her being able to talk about it, it cleared it and I gave her some tools to use to say, you know, let's, let's honor your baby. I feel like there's still some grief there.
We made a whole like little ritual for her to do to honor her baby and, to, to release that energy. it was amazing how her healing accelerated after that. That one thing that was keeping her anchored in her.
[00:45:56] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:57] Amanda: What was really going on there was grief.
[00:45:59] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:00] Amanda: And grief is one of those things that anchors, anchors us into, or trauma,
[00:46:04] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:46:05] Amanda: very often grief and trauma are tied. But, sometimes it's not a matter of doing like a whole reiki session. Sometimes it's just a matter of, can I just take a peak and see what might be going on?
And we start to unlock, deeper layers. And it doesn't mean that the person has to tell. Their trauma either, like sometimes I'm like, I'm identifying this, I'm seeing this. And I, you know, I'll say to them very often, this is tied to,
[00:46:30] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:31] Amanda: On what it is, I'll say, we oftentimes see this when there's trauma.
You don't have to tell me anything, but I'm going to help you clear it if you agree to it,
Usually they'll say yes, but then all of a sudden here comes a new level of healing. And then, they're starting to, to have that. With trying this stuff, I think sometimes people are, are a little bit radical and maybe too far off from the way that the person is used to thinking.
I'm, I, try to really meet people with where they're at the terminology that they use with how their brain might think about things like I, I shared with you earlier, I did, a talk to a room full of 45. Computer engineers about reiki, and I didn't go in there and talk about the more woowoo terminology, I use, let's talk about quantum energy and how it works and why it works in your body and how to move this energy and and I had people with me and at the end it was like, who would like to experience this?
We can give you a few minutes of reiki today. And not one person turned it. All of them wanted to try it. When you're, when you can meet people with where they're at and speak in their language, they're going to be more receptive to trying these things that normally might seem really out there.
[00:47:49] Andrea: Were you scared to get in front of all those engineers and talk to them about reiki?
[00:47:55] Amanda: no. You know, I just, I'm at this, I was, I was already at that point then too, but I'm. point in my life where we need to share things that are helpful because the way things are going in the world right now, if we don't learn to bend how we think a little bit, we're never going to meet in the middle.
I think that the healing comes when we open our minds and we are open to experiencing new things no matter how out there it. So I just really use it as a way to try to bring people together. And it's okay if somebody's this is crap. That's okay. Because at least now they can say they know a little bit about it and maybe down the road they're going to get some other exposure to it that will start to warm them up.
I think there's some statistic like the human being needs seven to 12 exposures to something
[00:48:51] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:48:51] Amanda: comfort.
[00:48:52] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:53] Amanda: So it's like, okay, if I'm exposure number one, of course they're going to be like, yeah, no thanks. But the more they hear about it, the more they'll open up to it, and maybe that will be the thing that helps them to heal down the road.
[00:49:05] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:49:05] Amanda: know? I hope.
[00:49:06] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, Some people it's, it's the last resort, cuz they're like well, I've tried everything else. I might as well.
And for other people it's a fun Hey, why don't we try it? Because you never know. You just never know.
[00:49:22] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. I get a lot of, I've tried everything. I've done everything, and it's like, well, done a lot of things, but you haven't worked with me yet, so buckle up because you know,
[00:49:35] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:49:36] Amanda: bound and determined to.
[00:49:38] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:49:39] Amanda: know, Talk about things with them that maybe they hadn't thought about before.
A lot of times with treatment, it's just changing up the order that they did things. Like we were talking about detox and drainage before. If you start out taking a boatload of supplements to kill things off, but you haven't opened up your detox and drainage, of course you're not going to think those supplements work cuz it made you feel sick
[00:50:02] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:02] Amanda: you, you know, You're going to be like what is this detox and drainage stuff, so it's like sometimes it's just a matter of let's change up the order, and I'll ask people, give me a list of everything that you have for supplements, because I get that this is financially draining. So let's use what you have, because I'm willing to bet that you have a lot of what we're going to need to make a major impact on your healing.
[00:50:24] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:25] Amanda: So, you know, I just really try to help people look at things differently, look at things more creatively than maybe they've been able to do in the past. Let's change it up, let's navigate this whole thing a little bit differently. And I think it's helpful for a lot of people. They need somebody to say, okay, yes, those things are great, and okay, they haven't worked so well, but let's try it like, Most people are willing to try it because they are, they're desperate
[00:50:54] Andrea: Yeah.
[00:50:55] Amanda: and they need help.
[00:50:56] Andrea: Yeah. Or something that I always think about, and I'm always very mindful of. Every time I add a new supplement or something, my question's always like, how do I know this is working?
[00:51:06] Amanda: Right.
[00:51:07] Andrea: there's some supplements that I know like, yes, I know this is working. There's other ones that I've read are good for me, and I'm like, Hey, I could go with that.
And then I'm like, is it. I don't know. I can't even tell. So it's probably a matter of saying Hey, these are your supplements. Maybe we don't need to pay for these three. Maybe that's not helpful for what it is that you need.
[00:51:30] Amanda: I do very targeted supplementation for people
[00:51:34] Andrea: Hmm.
[00:51:35] Amanda: um, And I start people one at a time. Very slow and I always recommend that my clients track, like I have a, like a pretty easy tracking system that I've devised for them so that they don't have to have a big journal where they're writing all their supplements.
Oh God, nobody has time for that. I just have 'em do a really like rate your day on a scale from one to 10. Write it on the corner, write why you rated your day that way. And I tell them like, we don't want to hear every symptom, right? Because we know that you have a myriad of symptoms every day. We want to know the key things, oh I'm rating this day a two which is thumbs down,
This day a two because my arthritis was really bad that day. Or, I had a migraine. Okay. But my goal is to have them see something that's measurable. Okay, so if you start a supplement, you write it on the day, and then we watch what happened for the next week after you started taking that supplement.
And sometimes it takes them, a little bit of time to work, but, if they're not feeling worse, then that's a win. And then, you know, okay, now let's start to carry through and see what's going on. Because ultimately, you know, I want them to be having like between eight and 10
[00:52:48] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:49] Amanda: Day.
And in the beginning I'll tell people like, don't worry if you're not rating your days, those high numbers I want you to be honest, you.
[00:52:58] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:59] Amanda: Really slow and we watch, because like you said, like how do I know if this is working? Because we're going to monitor it and we're going to see proof.
Sometimes, I always start very low dosing. Sometimes we're not seeing any progress because the dose is slow. But if you've got a sensitive system, I don't want to start, you want a high dose
[00:53:18] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:18] Amanda: I want your body to be able to take it in and figure out, okay, how am I going to use. To support the immune system and keep things going and
[00:53:26] Andrea: Mm.
[00:53:26] Amanda: Know how it goes.
[00:53:27] Andrea: Yep.
[00:53:28] Amanda: slow and steady.
[00:53:29] Andrea: Slow and steady. That's exactly right. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for coming and sharing about all of this. I think it's a really great way to help maybe make sense of some really complex issues and complex things that go on. In our bodies, especially when you have some kind of chronic illness or multiple chronic illnesses.
And thank you for just giving us a window into what this is like, what's going on. And hopefully, hopefully demystifying it for some people. Hopefully some people are going to maybe go out and try some kind of energy healing. I hope they do. I would love to hear people's experiences with it.
But I really appreciate, I could talk to you for like another two hours. There's so much that we didn't even get to that I'm like, oh, I wish we could have talked about this.
[00:54:16] Amanda: Part two.
[00:54:17] Andrea: That's exactly right. I'm always up for a part two, but thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of this. I'm going to have all of your information in the show notes that you can link to in the description for this episode.
But really quickly, if someone wants to reach out, how can they get in touch with you?
[00:54:34] Amanda: Sure. My website is Dahl holistic health.com and my last name is spelled d a h l and I'm also on Instagram under the same handle, and my direct messages are always open. So those are probably a couple of really quick, easy ways to get in touch with me.
[00:54:48] Andrea: Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on today.
[00:54:52] Amanda: Thank you, Andrea. I appreciate it. If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five-star rating and review. Follow us on apple podcast, Amazon music or wherever you're listening right now. To see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode
visit AndreaHansonCoaching.com. Thank you for joining me And until next time take care

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Amy Reinecke

48. Amy Reinecke
Body image is a hot topic right now. And it's about time. If you ask me, I like a lot of you grew up steeped in diet culture. And what I mean by diet culture is a focus on what you weigh and losing weight to get that desired look, which usually is what models and influencers look like. There's no consideration of what our own bodies need, or even that we are all unique and different.
What I think makes diet culture extra dangerous is that it conditions us to ignore our bodies from an early age. Which can be especially dangerous when you're living with a chronic illness.
I love the body image is getting more attention now, but that doesn't mean that diet culture is dead. There's still a lot of that mentality around today, but the big difference is that now. We have people like our guests this week to help us through it. And this week's podcast, my guest and I talk about our own journey in diet culture.
Tying our worth to how skinny we looked. And we talk about how we both developed binge eating disorders. At an early age. And also how we got back to a healthier mindset and lifestyle. This week's guest Amy she is a wife and mom of three. She is also a blogger and business owner. She had a poor body image since the fourth grade and even started her first diet that same year.
She spent many years at war with her body. In 2019, she was diagnosed with Hashimoto's after having her third baby. She has decided to use her Hashimoto's diagnosis as a gift instead of a crutch. This diagnosis has allowed her to take better care of her body and truly listen to its needs and finally make peace with it.
Her diagnosis has empowered her to show up differently in her business. And be authentic with her story and healing journey. You can connect with amy@loveyourbodywell.net and on the love your body. Well podcast. She's also co-founder of spark media concepts, where she coaches women to lean into their purpose and start their own blogs. Please enjoy this week's episode and visit Andrea Hanson coaching.com for more on Amy Reinecke.
resources we talk about in the show and transcripts from today's episode. Go to this episode description for the link. Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker. And master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told. I would never reach my goals. But I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people, living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds. To you inspire you To achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw. Uncensored and judgment free. Listener discretion is advised
[00:02:48] Andrea: Amy, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you.
[00:02:51] Amy: I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:54] Andrea: there is so many pieces to your story that I'm excited to talk about from living with an undiagnosed autoimmune disorder for quite a few years, handling chronic pain, feeling like you're a war with your body, and going through diet culture, which I know so many of us can relate to, and coming out on the other side with so many things that you've learned and this self love and feeling at ease with your body.
There's so much to unpack that I'm really excited to talk about. But your story started really early, like in the fourth grade.
[00:03:32] Amy: Yep, I
[00:03:33] Andrea: Tell us a little bit about that.
[00:03:34] Amy: Yeah. So I started feeling. Negatively about my body about in fourth grade, and that's the first time I realized that I didn't look like my friends, or I didn't think I looked like my friends. And that automatically meant that something was wrong with me. And now as an adult, obviously I realized that that was just hormonal changes in puberty and all of that.
But as a child, I didn't, I didn't I equated it to something was wrong with me. And so I kind of started that war with my body, you know, as an adolescent. I went on my first diet in fourth grade and I, I've unpacked that a lot. I'm now 40. And so I've unpacked that a lot over the years, and I, I know that that decision was at the time, What my mom thought was best to handle the situation.
But looking back, I know she would make a different decision as would I. And so, but when we, when we know better, we do better. And you learn from every experience. But I really do think that dieting at such a young age kind of set me down this path of always being at war with my body. And so that, that's the unfortunate piece of it, is that it did start so early.
And so from, from, you know, in fourth grade you are around 10. So around 10 years old, I was constantly telling myself that my body wasn't worthy or good enough the way that it was, and that it needed to be changed in order to be good. And I dieted. I diet actually up until 2018. So up until four years ago when I was about 36, I was a yo-yo dieter for many, many years.
And even at this, at this very last go round of dieting, I even lost over a hundred pounds on a popular weight loss program. And when I looked in the mirror after that journey and still saw fault in myself, I had the realization that the work really needed to be done in the mindset, and I needed to quit focusing so much on the body.
So,
[00:05:39] Andrea: And you know, the irony of that is, When we come around and realize that it's not changing our circumstances, changing our situation, that's going to make us better or feel better, I should say. It's changing what we're thinking about it. The irony is thinking that we need to start working on our mindset, but our mindset has been there the entire time.
It's just that our mindset has been working us in a way because we were in that, that culture, that diet culture of understanding that it's our body needs to look like something our body shouldn't look like it does. I remember doing, I was in the same program as you, uh, not quite at such an early age, but I remember going to, I think it was my only meeting.
I think I walked out and was like, this is crap. being really busy. But I remember the you know, the, I don't know what you would call them, the leader or whatever, who was, whoever was leading the, the class or the group was amazing. Her energy was so great and she had such a great story about losing all this weight.
And then she stood at the front of the class and she put her legs together, like stood there with her feet to like, touching. And she talked about the three gaps that you should have on your legs,
between your ankles, between your knees, between your thighs. And that is what she always wanted. And once she got it, she was so excited.
And, and I remember looking around the room because everybody was like, oh, that's what I want. And, and I can't, my, my, you know, legs pressed together and I just want to have legs like that. And how did you do it? And. I don't know. It was, it was pretty amazing. And I can only imagine being, I mean, I was, I don't know.
I mean, I was in like my early twenties when I was there, so I had a little bit more understanding than a 10 year old would. But I can only imagine what was
[00:07:37] Amy: Yeah.
[00:07:38] Andrea: your mindset at that early age.
[00:07:41] Amy: yeah. Yeah. That is really sad. It actually makes me really sad to hear that that happened. And it, it's interesting how those. Um, Thoughts can become our inner dialogue. And so when we hear those things, whether we're an adolescent or whether we are, you know, a young adult that becomes like the guidepost, oh, I am supposed to look like that.
Well, my, my legs don't do that. Or for me it was, I, I don't have a gap in my, between my legs, you know, a lot of my girlfriends did. And I was like, well, that, that means I'm bigger, you know, that means something's wrong or, or whatever. Because I've never had a small lower half, I, I have always carried the weight in my lower half and that for a long time meant that something was wrong.
And, and it's not that something that's wrong, it's just I built differently and that's okay. And that's beautiful too, just the way it is. I think it's definitely been a journey to understand. Yes, there are people with the idea that beauty is just in the eye of the beholder, the way that you look and, and, and all of that.
And, but there's, for many of us, it's, it goes so much deeper than that and it's taken years to understand that our worth and our beauty is so much more than just what people see on the outside. We have so much more to offer, and we are so much more than whether or not we have three gaps , or whether or not your collarbones are popping or whatever.
You know, the collarbones used to be a huge thing for me. And so I do think at a young age, sitting in some of that stuff, just unbeknownst to me, who knows the dialogue that that was going on. Then in my head, you know, with all these things telling myself like, this is the way it should be, or this is the way you should look.
[00:09:24] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:24] Amy: that happened at such a young age.
[00:09:26] Andrea: Well, and it's such a hard age anyway. I mean, there's so many think, like you said, it's like you're going through puberty, you're going through middle school. I mean, my gosh, that's like a war zone in and of itself, . And so there's so many things going on at that age that, uh, infusing this, this other type of idea about how you should look is just another layer.
And when we're at odds like that with our body thinking that it's not looking like it should, that it's not acting like it should because maybe it's holding weight or looking different. We aren't necessarily working on connecting with our body and really hearing what our body really has to say and we can miss some pretty, I think some pretty important things.
[00:10:14] Amy: Yeah. So that, that's interesting that you say it like that because what ended up happening is I began this process of numbing through food actually, and I didn't realize it, but I, I struggled with food for many years after going on that first diet, and I want to also say here, I looking at pictures, I was not an obese child, so I want to make sure that I say that this, there was very much body dysmorphia going on at, at that age.
I had a very different idea of what I looked like. Like when I go back and look at pictures, I look like, I mean, my son, my oldest son is in fifth grade. I look very much like several girls in his class right now. So I was not a really overweight kid, but I had told myself that I was. And so, that dialogue played into food being shameful.
And I'm sure the dialogue I was hearing at the meetings was, was playing a role in that as well. But, so I used to kind of numb myself with food as well. And what I didn't realize until actually after college was that I developed an eating disorder that had started around that fourth, fifth grade time, and that was binge eating disorder.
And in college I struggled pretty, pretty badly with it, to be honest. There was a lot of restriction and then that restriction was leading to binging and private, and no one knew I was doing it. And so I don't think that anybody saw the real issue because nobody saw what was going on. But, you know, I would feel it and, and know I was an over exerciser.
I would exercise for hours a day. I got my bachelor of science actually in health promotion. And so I was actually going to school in order to help people get healthier and to live healthier lives. And then in turn, I was kind of beating my own self up. I can very vividly remember we had to fill out a form.
In one of my classes. And um, it was an exercise prescription class, and it, she asked us to fill out our workouts and what they looked like and, and all that. And she pulled me aside after class one day and said, Amy, these workouts are not something that you could ever prescribe to someone. You are spending entirely too much time at the gym.
And this is not something that you can, you know, sustain for long periods of time. And I didn't think anything of it. I, I thought I was just doing what I needed to do in order to look the way I wanted to look. And I think some of that was overcompensating for the binging that was going on. Ironically, I had gone back to that weight loss program during college, and so was doing that.
I would restrict up until way in day. And then I wouldn't eat usually on way in day. I weighed in at five o'clock at night and then after that it was a full fledged binge usually for that night and sometimes into the next day. Because honestly my body needed fuel. It needed, it needed fuel, and our bodies have a way of getting the fuel that it needs regardless if you want it to or not.
It's, it's going to send those messages to you. And so that, there was definitely a shame cycle back then that I, I was heavy into that. I didn't get help with actually until after I was married.
[00:13:23] Andrea: , part of why I was so excited to talk to you is that I share a lot of that story and so I completely I completely understand the restriction and then the binging and doing it in private and the secrecy and the, the lengths you go to, to not show anybody in your life. And I mean, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty amazing.
And the idea now that I'm looking back on it and I am reading more about, you know, we're learning about the gut microbiome and I'm realizing. Oh, that wasn't just a restricting, and then I really needed to eat, and I felt like I was you know, not giving myself what I needed, both in food, but also emotionally.
But at the same time, there's this extra layer of what my gut must have looked like, like the actual,
like microbiome in my gut must have looked like because of that dieting. And what that does, because that will feed into what your body is craving. Because I don't know about you, but I never, I, I didn't binge on spinach,
[00:14:36] Amy: no It was, it was like sugar. You know, it's, it's that, it's that quick hit quite honestly. I mean, it is a quick hit of dopamine and something to like rub up your system cuz your body is literally like, I need that. And when we're in a state of stress, which I think a lot of binge eaters feel that they are in a state of stress and that's when they go for the binge.
That's what our body's going to crave is, is that high sugar stuff that honestly, you know, after a binge or after overeating or whatever, you don't feel very good. Like you just don't, and, and, but you're looking for that. For me it was a way of escaping. It was a way of escaping things that I was going through as an adolescent.
In college it was just a way of escaping, I think, and a way of controlling a bit. I could control myself for a certain number of time. I could see a number on the scale that I needed to see and. I knew that if I spent x amount of time, I could, I could maintain that number or lose. By over exercising and looking back and knowing what I know now I'd give anything to look at that 20 year old girl and say, you're worth more than this.
And this doesn't have to be your story. And cuz the damage that you're doing, you are going to get to unpack forever. Cuz I truly believe and I don't say this at all with um, I'm not harboring any guilt and shame anymore. It's just my journey. It's my story. But I do believe all those years of abusing my body the way I did, led me to an autoimmune disease of Hashimotos that I was diagnosed with in 2019.
[00:16:08] Andrea: So you say that you are pretty sure that you had it for your Hashimotos for quite a few years before you were diagnosed. Were you and I, I totally understand that numbing that comes from both restricting and with binging and with just being at war with your body. Do you feel like part of that was your symptoms from Hashimotos?
Do you feel like part of that was ignoring symptoms from Hashimotos? How do you think those two things played together?
[00:16:39] Amy: So I don't, I don't think back then I did. So here's kind of the timeline of what happened. So, I could have had it underlying at the, at that point I'd never been tested actually. About 14 years ago is when I realized that I had binge eating. So I didn't even know I did in college. I mean, I, I had made the joke, , it's a horrible joke to say that I was the bulimic who didn't purge.
I had said that to, to like close friends in compet, in confidence.
And then it wasn't until I learned what binge eating disorder was, that I literally can remember walking into my husband, like I'd seen a ghost and said, I have a problem and I think I need help. And so I started therapy for binge eating. And in therapy I. I realized at that point it was like my world came crashing down.
I had a very traumatic relationship in college. It was abusive and did not set me up for, for loving feelings about myself at all. So, that played a big role. And then even though I was married, I was still, I still had that trauma. I mean, trauma carries with us for our entire lives unless we choose to work through it.
And so, when I went to therapy, it was like I kind of needed to face some of those things that I'd been through and the way that I felt about my body, the ideas about myself, my ideas about relationships and love and things like that. And I went into a serious depression, like the worst depression I have ever, ever experienced.
I could hardly get off the couch. I was extremely depressed. And in that they said they recommended that I get on an antide depressant. I actually ended up getting put on three different medications. They put me on an anti-seizure medication for my binge eating, and they put me on two different medications for my depression.
So I went from feeling everything to feeling nothing,
and then was also seeing an intuitive eating registered dietician who was helping me understand to listen to my hunger cues
[00:18:38] Andrea: Oh, that's interesting
because how are you doing that when you're on.
[00:18:43] Amy: mm-hmm.
[00:18:44] Andrea: these medications.
[00:18:45] Amy: well, nobody clued me into that. So here's what happened. I spent a year in therapy. At the time I was driving an hour away every week for a 30 minute appointment with my registered dietician to discuss, you know, my feelings on food and how I'm approaching my meals and things like that. And I was also seeing a therapist every week to, to discuss my body and, and all of that.
So I was very just, Engrossed in, in this healing process. I almost lost my marriage in the middle of this because I was in that, that deep depression. And we were young, we got married young and he did not understand what was happening and did not understand how to help me. And it, it was just a very, very difficult time for, for us and my, in our marriage.
And but I was on these medications and and that year I gained a hundred pounds
[00:19:36] Andrea: Hm.
[00:19:36] Amy: and it finally took my husband like sitting me down, being so mindful cuz he knew my ideas are on my body and food and all of that. And, and him saying, Amy, there is something wrong. Like, something's wrong. I know that you're trying to heal, but like you have gained an extreme amount of weight in a very short period of time.
I mean, I had very, very high social anxiety. Like to go into a public place or, or anything like that was very difficult for me because of how much weight I'd gained. I was just humiliated by the way. I loved and so.
[00:20:14] Andrea: what did you think when you were going through all of these different things, you're going through therapy, you're going through all, you know, all of this, and you were still seeing that scale
ticking up?
[00:20:25] Amy: I wasn't, seeing the scale so they wouldn't allow me to weigh myself. So
I was, so the scale got removed from the home and I was being blind weighed when I went in. So I had no idea what the number was at all. And I don't think the number necessarily matters that looking back, but I do think I was literally so numb.
I was on some pretty high doses of these medications. I, I really do think I was just numb cuz it was the first time that I could remember that I was not completely consumed by thoughts of food. I mean, it was the first time I was like, oh my gosh, there's space in my head for other things. Oh my gosh.
[00:21:01] Andrea: Isn't that amazing how that happens
when you don't obsess about food or anything, like when there's something you're obsessing about and, and you wrap your brain around it finally and you're no longer obsessing about it. It's like there's all this space, there's all this time.
[00:21:16] Amy: I had no idea. I mean, I had, it was the realization, wow, you are really thinking about that all the time. You know, because now you have space in your brain for other things. So that was a very crazy realization for me to realize that.
[00:21:30] Andrea: so it took your husband sitting you down and saying like, look, this is, this is a lot of weight. Regardless of the number, regardless of what it is.
[00:21:38] Amy: he was
[00:21:38] Andrea: a lot of weight over a small amount of time.
[00:21:40] Amy: and very concerned about my health. I mean, he was like, I think we need to figure out what's going on. So I said, I think I'm over medicated. And so I remember sitting in the psychiatrist office and then saying that the medication that they put me on was would increase hunger. And this is after I'd been on it a.
I'm seeing an intuitive eating dietician who's telling me to listen to my hunger cues and I'm on a medication that has increased my hunger, and so it was just not. It just, yeah, it, it, it makes me realize you always need to research the medications that you go on. If you choose to go on them to make sure that the side effects are something that you're willing to deal with, should they happen.
And that's exactly what happened is I weight gain was a huge side effect. I ended up weaning off of those and really just, I, I just said to myself, I don't want to go on them again unless I'm at a point that I feel like I need to, I want to make sure I hold space for anybody who's on any type of antidepressant or anything like that.
This is not meant to be judgmental in any way, but we're very bio-individual. Our bodies all need different things. And my body, just, while it helped my brain for a little while physically, it actually did quite a number because in that time is when I believe I developed the Hashimotos actually. So my thyroid had always been normal up to that point.
And then,
after this, I mean, I, I felt awful at gaining that much weight in that amount of time. So led me down, you know, a rabbit hole with a doctor and saying, okay, now we have some health issues that need to be dealt with because of this weight gain. And it was high cholesterol. I got diagnosed with hypothyroidism and I had access to those labs.
And so, when I was officially diagnosed with Hashimotos in 2019, I went back to that because I kept, I kept the things that I did during my therapy, including those labs, and I looked up my thyroid labs and sure enough, I had thyroid antibodies back in 2008. And no one, no one told. That I had it. So, that was kind of disheartening knowing that I'd gone that many years without knowing that I had an autoimmune disease.
And I, I could have been taking better care of myself. I could have had some explanations for things that might have been going on. I haven't spent much time like feeling sorry for myself about that. I could, but I just, when I got the official diagnosis in 2019, it was like, well, you can't change anything now.
You can't go back and change what your body's been through. You, you can't, so what's the point? Like, you know that that's not going to serve you well in any way. And so how can you move forward? Like, how can you take everything that you've been through in this journey that you've been on with your body and, and how can you, how can you learn?
How can you grow from it?
[00:24:35] Andrea: Yeah, I think that it's with autoimmune disorders in general, and there's so many different autoimmune disorders, and I know with Hasha Motos especially because there is, you know, the general thyroid test that your doctor looks like or looks at and they're thinking, yeah, it's good. And then there's deeper tests that look more at things like the antibodies and that's when you can realize, oh, this is something that's been developing for a while.
But so many of us understand what it's like to have an autoimmune disorder and realize either when we finally do get diagnosed and learn more about it, realizing, oh, I've had this for a while, or I remember seeing this pop up.
[00:25:20] Amy: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:21] Andrea: Years ago Or it you on the flip side, knowing something's going on and not getting a diagnosis like that can be, you know, I think that's two sides of the same coin.
I remember talking to my MS specialist and he was asking if there was things that I noticed in the past years. I think he was, yeah, I was pretty young when I was diagnosed, but he was trying to think, or trying to figure out maybe how long I thought I had had this. And I was saying different symptoms.
And he was like, yep, yep. That's ms. That's ms. And remembering really, because I went to my primary care doctor and they told me it was something wrong with a disc in my back or something like this. partially because I was overweight and they were thinking, oh, you're just, you know, lose some weight, get the pressure off of that disc, you'll feel better.
And so looking back, I'm thinking not only was I seeing people who didn't know what was going on with ms, I'm seeing someone who really, let's call it what it is, which is like discrimination about a, a patient that is overweight and not looking at a little bit more of what the source was because it was a symptom that was actually quite common for Ms. You can have a lot of anger, you can have a lot of frustration, and I think that those are all worthy feelings, and I think that's part of the process that we can go through once we're diagnosed or once we really know something's going on with our body. But I think you're right. I think it's something that is really beneficial to focus on feeling those emotions, letting that move through you, letting yourself process them instead of, you know, pushing 'em down and then moving on.
Because focusing on all the things that maybe we did, I know a lot of people have self blame, like, what if I didn't do that? What if I didn't do this? I wouldn't have happened. And. We don't even necessarily know that that's true or not, right? Like you don't know if it would've happened anyway and maybe it had nothing to do with it.
And so I completely agree that a big part of this is just looking, looking at what's going on now looking forward, but being able to process. Maybe it's a matter of forgiving yourself, forgiving other people, and moving on.
[00:27:46] Amy: absolutely. I think that there's a time for. processing it. I think there's a time for anger. I think there's a time for sadness and it's not just in the beginning of a diagnosis. It can be on a day that you don't feel is great and you know that, that's probably why. But I also think that there's got to be more focus on how can I be better?
How can I make myself feel better? What am I in control of? So I am no longer in control of having a thyroid autoimmune disease, but I am control in control of my daily choices that can help that not completely steal and rob the joy in my life. And I think that just the process with my body over the years, I think I was at a point when I received my diagnosis, I was you know, I was 37 when I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. I at that, you know, three years ago I had just had my third child, I had my daughter, and so now I was a mom with children and a wife, and I just, I kind of looked at it and was like, this really sucks, to be honest, and this is really unfortunate, but there's nothing I can do now.
And so I am going to fight and I am going to control what I can and I'm going to do what my body needs in order for me to. Basically take this diagnosis and not let it, let it rob me of the joy because I, I still had young kids, you know, and so I, I just didn't want to be caught in that victim mindset of this has been done to me.
I'm not saying I haven't had those thoughts. I absolutely have. I've, I have had the thoughts of, you know, why, why did I struggle with binge eating? Why have I always been at war with my body? You know, why, why, why? But you cannot stay there. I think that we have to come to a place of honoring the body that we've been given, and that there is a reason that I was put on this journey.
And that reason has led me to help other women accept what, what they're going through. Because let's face it. No one has like nothing that they're dealing with. I mean, we, we all have something. And I think sometimes it just takes people opening up a little bit about their own story to give space for others and say, Hey, you know, we might not be sharing the exact same thing, but I can sit here with you in your grief and I can also sit with you and your healing and tell you that we can move on and we can move past this.
And I'm finally at a point in my journey that I truly am thankful, as odd as that sounds for the diagnosis, because I believe what's happened is it's given me this greater appreciation for my body. It has also solidified that dieting is never going to be the answer for me. And I I have to focus on wellness in ways that aren't.
Attached to the number I see on the scale because I'm not really in control of that number, especially with a thyroid disease. I, I do my best. But like I'm in a season now that we are not really sure why I'm experiencing weight loss resistance, but I am, and I'm choosing wellness anyways. I'm choosing the wellness practices that I know are good for my body, regardless of the number I see on the scale.
So my body, no matter what size it is, it still deserves to move. It still deserves nourishing food. It still deserves sleep. It deserves calmness. It deserves me to focus on stress. That is something I very much struggle with. It deserves all those things regardless of what it looks like on the outside.
[00:31:32] Andrea: I think. It's interesting because when there's a big event, like I would say, your body developing an autoimmune disorder, getting a diagnosis, those are really big life changing events. Sometimes it can be helpful to look back and say things like, okay, why did this happen? But sometimes it can turn into just more of that distraction and it just becomes another tool.
Uh, you know, we were using things like food. We were using things like deprivation. You could use things like focusing on finding why, uh, you know, why was it not diagnosed, why was it missed, why this? And so when we're focusing on things like that, that don't necessarily have an answer or have a good answer, it can just be another part of that distraction.
So what helped you go from when you finally realized, oh, I have these antibodies. This is what's going on. I don't want to be on these medication. Right. You were kind of putting this, all, all of those pieces together. What were the steps you took to start that process of, of coming into the healing, into the self-love, releasing the anger and the frustration and all of that kind of stuff.
[00:32:51] Amy: So, I will always be on thyroid medication. So I, I've pretty much been told that by my doctors that I, it was undiagnosed for so long that it, it will be very unlikely for me to ever go off of. So those are the medications that I do have to take for it. And I think right, right off the bat was forgiving myself for that and, and forgiving my body if forgiveness is even the right word there, but just knowing that that's one of the things that I have to do, that's a tool in my toolbox that needs to Take precedence and I, I need to do that in order to take care of my body overall.
So that was, that was the first step in knowing like, okay, you are going to have to be on medication. You know, I had already been on thyroid medication for a long time, but it really did, it helped me lean into how can I work with my body instead of working against it, which is what I've been doing all these years.
And so I really went down the route of functional medicine. I when I called my doctor, cause I was actually the person who found it was a functional med dietician actually, and she couldn't officially diagnose, but she said, you need to call your doctor and let them know about these results. So when I did, their response was, well, your, your treatment doesn't change.
And I found that very interesting that I'd just been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease knowing that when you have one autoimmune disease, you're three times as likely to to develop more. And that statistic scared me as a 37 year old mom of three. I at the time had a good friend who was diagnosed with a very serious autoimmune disease that could have taken our sight it could have made her paralyzed.
And that that statistic terrified me. . I don't want another autoimmune disease. Like I, I'm stopping this here. Like the st the cycle stops here if, if I have any control. And so, when I called and got that, that when they said that they would not be changing what, how they would be treating me, it said, I just said to myself, okay, then I need to find someone who will, I need to find somebody who's willing to unpack this and get to the root cause of what's going on.
So I found a functional med doctor that I started with just a few months later and we worked together and I did go gluten-free for my Hashimotos, which I was terrified of doing as somebody with the issues of food that I'd had in my past and an eating disorder and dieting and all of that. But I think it truly, I reached this point that after having my three kids especially, I just was thankful and. I just thought to myself like, you owe it not to your, not only to yourself, but to them to do what you need to do in order to be the mom that you want to be. And so I, I really don't remember a feeling like upset that I had to give up gluten. I just remember feeling. And at that point my, the reason that I, actually, we haven't talked about this yet, but the reason that I ended up getting that diagnosis was because after I had my daughter, I felt horrible.
So I felt really great my entire pregnancy. And then I had my daughter, and as the months kind of went on, I just, I was in so much pain. I had a lot of pain in my joints. It, it hurt to walk, my legs felt swollen. I just, I really felt awful. And when she was about four to five months old, I, I just had a realization like, something is seriously going on here.
Like, I feel awful in postpartum. Like, I feel much, much worse than I did when I was pregnant. And that just doesn't kind of add up. And so that's when we ran the blood work and, and found it. And so, part of it too was I didn't want to be in pain anymore. I, I wanted to figure out like, how can I prevent the pain?
You know, if, if gluten is something that's causing the pain, by all means I don't, I
never need to eat it again. , you know, Because I just, every day I was just walking around in pain. So it led me down that functional path, which I've been on ever since. And just taking kind of a deep dive look into what I'm, what I'm feeding my body, how I'm nourishing myself, looking at the root cause of things.
It's definitely given me a lens that wellness and health is not just, you know, calories and calories out and, you know, mo move more. There is a lot of other factors that go into our health versus those two things, but that's generally what America focuses on are those two things only. And so, I focused a lot on stress relief.
I'm a, you know, I'm a business owner and a mom and so stress is something I struggle with. To be really honest, it's probably a big reason. Why? I'm experiencing the weight loss resistance in my opinion right now is because of stress. So I'm just not very resilient to it, and I'm trying to work on, on that.
And I think just knowing that this is a journey and that there's no timeline and that I don't, I always put a timeline on any other health journey I'd ever been on. Like, you know, I need to be able to run this amount and this amount of time, or I need to weigh this much weight by this amount of time.
And with this diagnosis, it's helped me understand, like, I just want to live the best and fullest life I can right now. And, and daily I have to make choices to do that. So it's not like I'm running towards the finish line. Because what I realized, you know, at several different journeys, having set those goals is sometimes when you get to that goal, it's not as like, appealing as you thought it would be.
And then, and then you're like, but what now? So I've just accepted this is lifelong. Like I want, I want to feel good. I want to set a good example for my kids. I want my kids to have a really healthy relationship with foods. I also want them to know like how to nourish themselves. Like what foods make them feel good and what foods don't, and how to be active and move and take care of the one body that God's given us, and how we can do that in the best way possible.
[00:38:42] Andrea: it's interesting that, and you know, coming from a life coach, it's . I, I don't always say we have to have goals, you know, there, yes, there's a time and a place with goal setting and I think that there's a very mindful way that we can set goals. But a lot of times when we are just looking at lifestyle changes, That's, to me, that's not the time for a goal.
Lifestyle changes are, like you said about making those decisions every single day.
It's much more about just consistency, like this low level, just consistency built into your days instead of making sure you have to ramp up to something. Because when we do number one, yeah, it's, it's never, we never really feel the way we think we're going to feel or we do for like 30 seconds of like a yay me , then it's done.
And also our brains just move the goal post on us. That's just what our brains do. So, You know, by the time you reach your goal, you already have something else in mind. And it's almost like you can't, you know, you can't stay in the yay as long as you think you're going to when you're working up to that goal to begin with.
So goals I think are really funny and like I said, there's a time and a place for them, but when you're looking at lifestyle changes, I don't think that's necessarily the time to have these finite goals all the time.
[00:40:08] Amy: Right. And I think that when we can break it down, I've learned a lot about habits over the last couple years. I've, I've really dove into that and had this realization that a lot of the habits that I thought I'd created in my past, you know, were going to lead me to, you know, lifelong wellness. And they weren't, they were completely unattainable.
They weren't something that I could ever sustain. So now my ha the habits that I choose to work on just look very different. It's, you know, making sure that I have time to like rest in the evenings and read a book. Reading is something that brings me a ton of joy. And people might not look at that as like, that's a wellness goal, you know, it's to sit down and read.
But it is actually. It's a form of self care. It's a form of stress relief for me. And so, it, it's making sure that I'm drinking my water, it's making sure I'm doing things like that. And when you break it down to those small things that we do day to day and you focus on one thing at a time, it's amazing what you can end up achieving because you're just focused on little things instead of going like all in on something and having this dramatic change that at some point our brain does go back to like equilibrium.
You know, like it goes back to what feels comfortable all the time. But if we slowly add these, like one habit at a time and we do those things and we just integrate them into our life before we know it, we're just naturally making the healthier decisions. We're, we're just naturally choosing a more grace filled way of wellness.
And I think that that's what I'm excited about quite honestly. As I've been on this journey now for three years it looks very different to not have a goal, like a, like a weight loss goal. I've never, you know, I've always had that up until this point. Sadly. And now it's just like, how can you, how can you take the best care of your body today?
That's a question that I ask myself daily. And some days that means rest. Some days that means movement. And just knowing that whatever that day, whatever your body needs that day is okay. And I, I think just giving yourself a lot of grace in this is, is necessary because we're all we have such high expectations of our bodies, I think, and we sometimes don't realize everything that we're doing on any given day.
And how can we honor it? How can we care for it? How can we appreciate it? I don't, I don't want another autoimmune diagnosis.
[00:42:27] Andrea: you.
[00:42:29] Amy: Yeah, like one's enough. And I, I truly think that, you know, on days that, you know, you might get a little down, I just remind myself like, there's a purpose behind this. Like, you want to be around for your kids, and I want to be, I, I had my youngest, you know, at 36, almost 37.
And so, I mean, wouldn't call myself like an older mom, but I, by the time she's, she's in high school, like, I'll be in my fifties and I want to be able to like hang, you know, I want to be able to go and do things with her. And I definitely don't want to be in this space of like such severe chronic pain that I'm unable to do that.
So what can I do today that can, can help me live that life that I
[00:43:11] Andrea: Something that comes up when I think about that is, If we are in a bubble, right? And we're just looking at ourselves and it's like, okay, I'm just going to do what I want because my body is saying that I need it. And I, like, for example, I the last couple of days I've just, I haven't been full on like energetic.
Like I've had moments and I've had times where I like go, like I work in the morning and I go have lunch, and then I'm like, I don't need to go back to work. I need to, you know, just rest. Or I, you know, I'm sitting and I'm reading and I realize, oh my God, I've been here for two, three hours and I should be doing this, right?
And so in a bubble it's like, okay, I know that this is what my body needs because this is kind of what it's doing before I even realize it. But we don't. We don't live in that, you know, nice blissful little bubble where we can just give ourselves what we need, right? We live with other people. We live in a community, we live with other people that have different ideas or different levels of energy, different ways of doing things.
And that comparison can just pop up and say, oh, but so and so has more energy and so and so can work all day long. And this person does an eight hour day and you know, they don't have to rest. And if you have to rest, how are you going to do X, Y, Z? And there's all these things that kind of pop up that interfere with us giving ourselves what we need.
[00:44:44] Amy: Yep. I think comparison in regards to other people's journeys can
just rob us of our own. So I think in a day and age when we are constantly seeing what other people are doing, you know, we're on social media and seeing what everybody's doing all the time. We have this idea of what, oh, that, that's what wellness looks like, or, or that's what it looks like to live a healthy lifestyle or whatever.
But I want to remind you that you're only seeing one small piece. Of, of their entire life and what's going on, you're, there's a lot more going on behind, behind closed doors. And I can say that because I am a content creator, I am a blogger, I am all those things. And so I, I can tell you that like I only show like 5%.
Like my children never come into the equation on, on my social media, do that for safety reasons. But so like I don't talk often about the stresses of motherhood or things. So if you see somebody who's relaxing or doing something, you don't really know why they need that, why they need the recharge. And to be honest, doesn't really matter cuz we shouldn't have to earn rest, we shouldn't have to earn relaxation.
We shouldn't have to earn a rest day at the gym. If that's what your body feels like it needs, you should be able to take it whether you've earned it or not, quite honestly. And I think that when we can kind of get outta that rat race of telling ourselves, well I can rest after I do this, or I can have the dessert after I do this instead.
How can we just like, Be at home with ourselves and our bodies and ask like, what do you need right now? And that was something I truly didn't know how to do for many, many years. Like how to really check in and, and ask myself, like, what do you need? I had kind of like you said earlier, stuffed down. A lot of those feelings hadn't allowed myself to really, I think I was afraid of what I was going to hear, if you want me to be honest.
I was afraid of listening to what my body needed. And so I just kind of shut her up. And now I don't like, I listen. And some days it's hard when it's like you need to rest or you're doing too much. I'll use an example of yesterday. I worked way too long yesterday or had a very long work day, and it was about eight o'clock.
All three of my kids needed to go to bed. And things like all of a sudden like came to a head, like all three of them were like fighting and arguing and I snapped. And the second I did it, I immediately thought to myself, wow, you did not have enough time to recharge today. That is why you just snapped. So learn from this.
So I gotta go into all of their rooms and apologize, you know, and say, Hey, sorry mom, mom snapped today. But when I reflected immediately, and, and that shows the growth that's happened immediately, I was like, this is on me. It's not on them. I haven't taken enough of a break today to actually be the mom that I want to be.
And so this is actually my fault that, that I responded the way I did. I needed to give myself a little more time to not be sitting at my computer and doing that, that, and then I wouldn't have responded in the way that I did. And so I think that we can, you can change that in regards to food too. So if you are restricting all day long and then at night you find yourself binging or you know, in front of a bowl of ice cream and then going for chips and whatever, all, and then after you're done, you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I ate all that.
Instead, how about you look at the day and how the day went? and ask yourself, did I fuel my body the way it needed to be fueled today in order to avoid the binge or the overeating at night? Because that plays a huge role. Like our, our bodies deserve fu fuel all day, not just at one meal. And so I think we can kind of set ourselves up for those times um, where we feel a little out of control, but looking back with, without judgment.
So it's just data that we're gathering with our own, with our own selves. And it's not, it's, it's looking back, like I said, as data. It's not, don't use that as like a way to beat yourself up. And I spent many years doing that. I spent
[00:48:41] Andrea: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:42] Amy: long beating myself up for choices that I made. And, and what I would just say is you don't grow from that.
You don't grow from beating yourself up. You just stay in that shame cycle and that shame cycle doesn't serve us and it doesn't serve anybody. That we love and that we're surrounded by. It just keeps you in that negative space. And when you can come home to yourself and think positively and say, okay, I'm going to take care of my body and I'm going to learn what it needs, and I am going to have an open mind with the answers that I might find that's when I feel like healing can really happen.
[00:49:17] Andrea: I think that beating ourselves up and staying in that shame cycle is another sneaky way to numb ourselves. Because
like you said, you're not learning anything about your body when you're in a shame. I mean, you're not connecting fully with your body when you're in this shame cycle and you're beating yourself up for all of the choices you made or didn't make.
And I think you're right. It's the key is, is looking at things without judgment. And I know that's easier said than done. I know. I mean, I know you know that that's easier said than done as well, but it can be done and I think it must be done because there are things there to learn. I mean, I always say like very rarely are we binging at breakfast.
Right. Usually breakfast is a pretty easy time to have a pretty normal, good for you type of a meal. It's as our day goes on, and that's always a really good clue to look at and say, okay, let's look without that judgment. And I think that is you know, I, I often I'll ask guests, what is one thing that our listeners can do?
Because a lot of times our listeners are, are here and they're, they're listening to the podcast thinking, oh my gosh, that's me. That is something that I want to do. That is something I want to try. And I always say, okay, what's one thing that they can do? But I think you, you answered that before I could even answer that before I could even ask the question.
It's look without judgment, I think that's a really good place to start.
[00:50:47] Amy: Yeah. And I think that you have to understand too, that that's going to look different every day. It could look different at different times throughout the day. It could, I mean, as women, it can also look different at different points of, in our cycle, you know, that we're going to be able to forgive ourselves a little easier than others.
And so just knowing that, knowing that if you, you know, beat yourself up really bad yesterday, it doesn't mean you have to do it again today. If you beat yourself up for lunch choice, it doesn't mean you have to do that at dinner. You know, you can, every, every moment is a new chance and opportunity to start again.
To start a new, to say, okay, I was a little off there, but how can I make it better now? How can I move forward now? You know, how can I, how can I set my path in a more positive light? Now, we don't have to stay in that negativity just because a certain choice was made on any given day or a week or month.
[00:51:38] Andrea: I love it. Well Amy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and all of these ways that we can make these choices every day that can help us both with our health, but also with our mindset and really creating a new culture of self-love.
[00:51:55] Amy: so important to me. Thank you so much for having me here. I really appreciate it. If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five-star rating and review. Follow us on apple podcast, Amazon music or wherever you're listening right now. To see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode
visit AndreaHansonCoaching.com. Thank you for joining me And until next time take care

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Andrea W. Hanson

[Andrea Hanson] Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker. And master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told. I would never reach my goals. But I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.

Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people, living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds. To you inspire you To achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw. Uncensored and judgment free. Listener discretion is advised

 Hey everyone. This is Andrea Hanson. Thank you for joining me. I hope you had a great week.

This week, I want to share a story. If you've read my book, live your life, not your diagnosis. I tell the story in there. But I don't know about you, but I always like to hear an author retell a story that's in their book. Later on because a lot of times there's a different angles. There's different understandings, even different applications.

So I always like to hear it. Retold and I am going to be doing that for you today because I was just talking to somebody earlier today. I'm not going to tell you what she's doing, but it's a big move. It's a big move. That's got a lot of moving pieces. And in other words, it's just, it's something really amazing.

But totally overwhelming. And whenever I think about doing something that has a lot of heavy lifting. A lot of steps. I'm always reminded of the time that I was in the 50 bike race. It was an amazing experience. I'm still so proud of myself for doing it.

It's quite the accomplishment. But I learned one simple lesson from that race. That has stuck with me. I still think about it and I still apply it in my life all the time.

Now this bike race was years ago. Longer ago actually, then I care to think about, um, I don't know, probably about 10 years. And it's now it's called the bike, Ms. Which some of you might recognize it's one of the biggest fundraisers for the national Ms. Society here in the states. But back in the day, when, way back when I did it, it was called the

One-fifty because it was a two day bike ride. That was about 150 miles long. It was no joke.

It was also something that I've never done before. I wasn't a huge cyclist. This is road biking. I didn't have a bike when I signed up. And if you know me at all, you know, that. This is totally up my alley. Like, let's take this. Big huge thing that I've never done before and just do it. I'm kind of a quick start like that.

Sometimes it's great. Sometimes it bites me in the ass. This time. It was actually great. Um, But I just jumped in. I only had like a few months to train, which meant going from basically. Zero miles on a road bike, especially to 150 miles. Over one weekend. And so it was a really tough learning curve. There was a lot.

Of things to learn. I had to get my strategy. Right. I mean, I started from the very beginning, like I got my road bike and I took a couple of classes just at the local bike shop . We had a really good bike shop where they taught you how to road bike, because there's a whole. It's a whole thing.

Who knew. But I learned all of the tips and tricks and the rules and everything like that. And by the race I was, I was ready. I was ready. Ish. I had got on a few shorter, bike races around the city and got used to it. I did my own long bike. runs on the weekends. It was also a very well-supported race. And again, this race is still going on and it's fantastic. I felt really comfortable launching in it. There are people of all abilities that do this bike race, and again, it's very, very well supported. It's a really well put on, event.

So I felt good. so I launched in, I finished the first day, which was about 75 miles. And at the end of that day, I was spent. I was done. Super proud of myself made it, but I started thinking. I have to do this whole thing again tomorrow.

And I just froze. And I remember being at the little, the tent, you know, the team tent. And I turned to my teammate and a friend of mine, and I said, I can't do this. I can't do this again tomorrow. I was really scared. I looked at how I was, I didn't have the energy. How could I possibly have the strength again? Because that day.

I was fantastic. But it was tough. And I was not being hyperbolic. Day one. Kicked my ass. And I was convinced that, that next day I was looking at tomorrow, I was like, tomorrow cannot happen. It can't happen. I mean, I'm not going to be able to do it. And she just looked at me and she said, Don't think about tomorrow.

Which is so simple. I was so tired to be honest, telling me not to think about something. I was like, okay. I'm not going to think about it. And so I didn't, I had dinner. I, I took ibuprofen. And I went to sleep. And I didn't think about the next day.

When I woke up in the morning. I was tired. Yeah, I was hurting. I was actually less sore than I thought I would be probably because I took the ibuprofen before I went to bed. But I was ready. I was ready to bike for a second day. And I did it. I did the whole next day I finished the whole course. I was super, super tired. I was really slow.

But I am so proud of myself that I did that.

And the magic. Of that advice that she gave me was not take one step at a time. That wasn't it. We all know we take one step at a time. Right? We all have thought about this. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. The magic of this

was to take one thought at a time. One emotion at a time.

Because. We can take one step at a time, which is really important, but we can still think about that next step. We can still worry about that next step before we take it. We can still set ourselves up for failure in the future. For that next step. Before we're taking it. But if you have a plan. And a lot of times in these big grand plans that we have when there are a lot of steps, we generally have a good idea of what we're going to do. Even if it's just like the first couple of steps. And so when you have a plan and you have clear steps to take.

But then only take each step one thought at a time.

That is when you can set yourself up for success, because you're not projecting anything onto that next step.

And there's a couple of reasons that this works

first. How you think you're going to feel. In the future is rarely how you actually feel when the time comes. All right. That's why like when we're laying awake at 2:00 AM and we're worrying about something. Maybe we have to do something in the morning. And we're rolling it around in our head and we're worried that we're not going to be able to do it.

And we're projecting how hard we think it's going to be. When you wake up that next morning and you actually do that. Very rarely. Is it the same? Right. Very rarely. Is it as hard? And crazy and confusing as we think it was going to be. When we were worrying about it before.

How we think we're going to feel in the future when we're actually taking that next step is rarely how we actually feel once we get there.

Second, like I said, when you're doing something really big, when you're doing something that has a lot of moving pieces, a lot of steps. Generally, you have an idea of where you're going. You have an idea of what the next couple steps are at least. Like when I was on that, in that bike race, I knew the next step was going to be getting up in the morning and doing it all again. The second day.

Because those steps were already laid out. So when you have your plan, You don't have to think about that next step until you get there.

You can trust. That on, at least at the very least on a basic level, you know what you're going to do next?

And third. If you. Do get to that next step. Let's say you're on step one. You're not thinking about it. You're just focusing on step one. You're not even projecting.

How you're going to feel. And then you get to that next step. And at that point, you truly just don't want to do it. You know that that is a valid choice. Based on how you feel in that moment. Not based on how you think you're going to feel,

but maybe you will, or maybe you won't. You know? That it's a clear message. That, Hey, maybe this isn't the right step. Or maybe you need to pivot or tweak it or make it something a little bit different or just skip it. All together. Anyway, you look at it. Whatever you have, whatever ideas you have about that next step.

Are very clear and concise. When it's in the moment.

It's truths. It's not an assumption. Based on something. Two three days beforehand.

And I love that. I love that, you know, you're getting a very clear message. About that next step. That is not at all. Muddied. Bye projections and hyperbole and worries. I think that's gold.

And I would say even forth now that I'm thinking about it is. When you're not loading yourself up with. You know, worries about the next step. Thoughts about the next step. Feelings, all sorts of emotions about the next step when you're not. I would say like, pre-loading them. Before you get there.

You're gonna naturally have more energy when you get to that next step, because you don't have that load that you're putting on yourself.

And I think that gives you so much more energy to both do the step that you're on, that you're focusing on. And doing that next step. Once you get there.

So I love this guideline. Don't think about the next step. Until you're there.

I use it for big things. Like when I was doing 150 miles. In a weekend. Which is a lot of fun. I use it for little things. You can use it for physical things. You can use it for if you're on a path of healing. And you're really working on a plan to heal your body. If you're working on a plan to make a big move.

A big change. All of these things. It can really be applied to every single one and a lot of times when we're in plan creation mode, That's a whole different mode. And even if we only have a few steps figured out, maybe we don't even know what the end goal is going to be. Maybe we only have the first two or three steps. You can still just focus on the one step. Because when you've done that last step, you'll have a very clear view.

Of what's next.

This is a great way to take stress out of your day. This is a great way to infuse more energy and focus into what you're doing. It's just a great, I don't know. I just love it. It's just a great way to look at things because quite often we have a multiple steps or multiple things that we're doing.

As always. I want to hear from you. I'm curious how you can apply this guideline to your life. What big plan are you working on? How can you take it? Not just one step at a time, not just the action. Of one step at a time. But one thought at a time. One emotion. At a time, how can you completely focus in with your. Thoughts with your emotions with your actions? How can you totally focus in. On the step that you're working on right now. And not even have the next step. In your mind yet? You can always reach out to me.

I love hearing from listeners. I love hearing from people. You can get to me at my website, Andrea Hanson, coaching.com. There's also, if you go to the description of this podcast episode, there is a link right there where you can also shoot me an email. I love hearing from you. Let me know what you're working on. Let me know questions that you have.

And that is it for now. I hope these tips really help you make your big and even small plans, a little less stressful. And we easier to keep moving forward.

I'll talk to you next week. And until then, Take care.

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Sarah Jane Smith Lyonsc
Hi, everyone. Welcome to this week's show. I'm Andrea Hanson. When we're out in the wild, maybe at a party or a gathering of people that we don't know. There is one question that most women without children dread. So do you have children? . I'm sure. It's not asked with malice. It's just one of those annoying societal assumptions that all women have kids. And for those that do have kids, it's not a dreaded question at all. It's even a welcome chance to start talking about your family. But if you don't have kids, Or if you have lost a child, this question can be really, really painful.
I've talked a little bit about this on the podcast. We don't have kids. But by choice, my MS has a little bit to do with that, but it was not the entire reason. But for other people, The reason they don't have children. Is because of their chronic illness. Today's guest sarah Jane Smith Lyons. Is a longtime yoga teacher and health and life coach. Who's sharing her personal story of wanting more than anything to have children and not being able to, because of her chronic illness. She calls it being childless, not by choice. In this week's episode, we do talk about her journey with miscarriages and grief.
Sarah Jane has this amazing energy that you'll feel right away when listening to this episode. And along with her story, she shares hope and tools that you can use if you're grieving or if you're living a life that's childless, not by choice. And at the end, we talk about ways to answer that looming question of if we have children. And
she gives us ways that help us not feel derailed by that question that help us stay in integrity and not say something. Rude. Which sometimes I do. And to just help us feel good. When the conversation takes that turn.
. So please enjoy this week's episode. And visit Andrea Hanson, coaching.com for more on Sarah Jane Smith Lyons resources. We talk about in the show and transcripts from today's episode.
And you can find that link in the episode description.
[00:02:13] Andrea: Welcome to the Live Your Life, Not Your Diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hansen, author, motivational speaker, and master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told I would never reach my goals, but I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view, and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds to inspire you to achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw, uncensored, and judgment free.
Listener discretion is advised.
I'm here today with Sarah Jane Smith Lyons. She is an embodiment teacher and mindset coach who helps fellow childless not by choice women integrate grief, amplify agency, and embody possibility. Using the foundations of embodiment, self compassion, and community, she helps women uncover the confidence, spark, and clarity that was buried on the way to becoming childless.
Sarah Jane, welcome.
[00:03:27] Sarah Jane: Thank you. Nice to be here.
[00:03:29] Andrea: Thank you so much for coming on. I know coming on podcasts can be fun, but it's also a little bit of an exercise in being vulnerable and open. And I really appreciate you coming and sharing your story with everybody.
[00:03:44] Sarah Jane: Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity.
So let's
[00:03:48] Andrea: start with what are you doing right now and get a little bit of kind of your background that led you to this.
[00:03:55] Sarah Jane: Yeah. So I'm self employed and it's kind of multifaceted. I'm a longtime yoga teacher and I live on a small island and so I have a, my own, uh, yoga studio, which is in the downstairs of my house.
So I teach yoga classes to general populations in person, but I also work online with fellow women who are childless, not by choice in a couple of different ways. One is through one on one coaching, and then the other is through group coaching programs.
[00:04:31] Andrea: So what led you to Yoga, because I'm reading your bio and you've had thousands of hours of teacher training and running workshops and I know you have a great online yoga practice where you have all of these videos that people can get to on your website.
What made you get into this in the very beginning?
[00:04:52] Sarah Jane: So that reaches way back. I remember taking my first yoga class at the local YMCA when I was living in Victoria, British Columbia, and I think I was probably 18 or 19. Yoga was something that I'd heard about here that it's, that it's good for you. So I was like, well, okay, give it a try.
And I fell in love with the idea of a moving meditation. So I'm doing something physical with my body, but it's not just about the physicality of it. It's a practice that allows the space to notice what's going on inside. So it's a self awareness practice. So when you're doing the different shapes, you can notice, oh, How does it feel in my body or how am I breathing when I'm in this different position and also give space to notice the thoughts and the feelings that come up.
And so that struck me right off the bat that first, you know, six week session in the YMCA basement. And then I, Didn't do yoga for a long time. Lots of things happened in my life and then I was drawn back to it when I was living in a different town and this was a hot yoga practice and I'd also heard that, you know, hot yoga.
Okay. Interesting. I went the first time and really disliked it. I was like, but it's so hot. It's uncomfortable. What's all sweaty. Everyone's sweaty. Why would I want to be in this? Place with all of this sweat.
[00:06:24] Andrea: Yeah. It is very intimate with people that you've never met before. All of a sudden you're in like this very sticky, sweaty situation.
[00:06:32] Sarah Jane: Totally. Yeah. But I had bought a like a one week come as many times as you can pass and I was living on a strict budget so I was like, well, I'm not just gonna go once cause I . I bought this pass so I'm gonna go back. And so I went. Three or even four times, I think that week. And by the fourth time I was like, okay, I get it.
The heat added that sort of extra layer of awareness because it had to be really aware of like, do I need a drink right now? Do I need to stop? What am I really feeling in my body? So I found it. It added to my self awareness practice and I dove really deep into, into that practice and. decided that after a few years that I wanted to teach this, I wanted to learn more.
And really the only way, for better or for worse, to learn more without a lot of self study, which is great, I was doing that, is to do a teacher training. I didn't know if I wanted to actually be a teacher when I first did the training, but throughout the training, I just got more and more inspired by the practice because the more that I practiced, the more that I saw the benefits and the value.
For my inner landscape, you know, my inner life, it helped really ground me and give me some tools to deal with my anxiety, starting with the breath, sort of when, because when, especially in a hot yoga practice for me, sometimes I can, my anxiety is elevated because it's uncomfortable. It's hot. There's like this, I can get a little bit overwhelmed.
And so it was a great kind of low stakes. Place to practice using breath, using awareness to help down regulate my nervous system, to calm myself down, to ease my anxiety. It was also a great place to practice something that I wasn't very good at, but not very good at the physical postures, but it's also again, kind of low stakes, right?
Like we practice it. If you sort of come out of a pose cause you can't hold it for too long or you go a little off. balance. It's not, not really a big deal, right? You can get back into it. You can try it again next time. So I really fell into this, this version of practice that allowed me to, to build confidence.
And so when I found that I was like, well, this, this is what I want to teach. And so I happened to be in the right place at the right time and a new studio opened in my town that I was living in. And I had the opportunity, which many yoga teachers don't get to have a full time contract. So I was teaching 15 plus classes a week for five years.
So that's how I accumulated so many hours of teaching.
[00:09:39] Andrea: I was like, I don't think I have 5, 000 hours of practice in anything. Even brushing my teeth. I'm not even sure.
[00:09:50] Sarah Jane: Yeah. Yeah. So my first teacher training was 500 hours. And then I've done subsequent trainings after that. So that's getting the thousand hours plus.
And then I've been teaching for my full time job for 12 years.
[00:10:07] Andrea: So what is your favorite thing about teaching yoga to your clients?
[00:10:12] Sarah Jane: Seeing the transformation from, I don't think I can do that. To over time practicing it, revisiting it again and again, the confidence that comes out that folks can do it, or they make an adjustment within themselves and with their bodies to achieve the functional objective.
So, The idea is the pose is we're not looking for perfect replications of things that we might see on magazines or on the internet. We're looking to understand what's the point of doing the thing that we're doing and working with it enough and being curious enough to figure out how does my body. Meet the functional objective.
So the purpose of doing what we're doing.
[00:11:01] Andrea: Oh, interesting. Can you go into that a little bit more? Like, what is the purpose of doing yoga?
[00:11:06] Sarah Jane: Well, there's many different purposes, depending on your intention and what you're looking for. So speaking, most people, when they think about yoga, they think of just the poses, just the asana.
[00:11:18] Andrea: They think of Instagram with all of those
[00:11:19] Sarah Jane: people. Right. Yeah. With something like leg behind your head or like fancy outfit or whatever.
[00:11:25] Andrea: Yeah, on the cliff at sunset with the sun shining through like the exact right spot.
[00:11:33] Sarah Jane: Right. Yeah. No, no. I'm so glad.
So initially, so say a functional objective of a forward fold. So that's when you're standing up and you hinge at your. Hips to move forward. So the functional objective of that is to stretch the back line of your body. So that could be felt in your calves, it could be felt in your hamstrings, it could be felt in your lower back, all the way your upper back to your neck.
So, some folks do that with straight legs. Because that's how their body works other folks There's limitations with the tightness of the backs of the legs that then pulls down the pelvis So it's they can achieve the functional objective. So stretching the back line of the body with bent legs You're working with yourself to figure out how you can best achieve this, whatever the functional objective of each shape is.
But then as you put that together, that you can take that practice outside of each posture and outside of the yoga studio by Having that same idea of like, what's the functional objective of the thing that I'm doing, like in my life, in your relationships. And how can me and my makeup and my ideas and my personality and my considerations, how can I meet that?
So it's really a practice of self awareness. Discernment, boundaries, curiosity, and compassion.
[00:13:15] Andrea: I love that. I love the idea of taking it outside into just our real life and saying, what is the functional objective here? I think that's something that is not asked. Enough, I think we tend to ask, how can I make myself into what I want this to be, which is like you said, kind of the equivalent of like, how can I do this forward bend and make my leg straight when maybe that doesn't work for me.
And so it's a great way to reframe like, okay, let's throw away what we think we need to do. Let's throw away what we think the perfect outcome is here. What is the objective? What is the functional objective here? And how can we get there? I think that's brilliant.
[00:13:54] Sarah Jane: So I love seeing people come in and try out different things, work out, be curious to see how they can meet the functional objective of the different shapes of the overarching intention of the class.
So I always have a teaching from yoga philosophy or an idea from yoga philosophy that is the overarching intention. And so it's sort of layers of functional objective all the way down from the overarching intention to the individual. Shape. And so it's, how can you embody that, the intention? So currently in the, and I teach in series, six week series.
So we practice the same thing for six weeks. So you can really get into it and revisit things and learn as you go along, as opposed to just drop ins where the class is different all the time. I've did that for years, but I find the learning is really. Not that learning needs to be fast, but like slow as in can take years and years and years as opposed to a year.
So right now the intention, the overarching intention of the series is working with a yoga sutra. So that's a teaching, a yoga teaching that is in the Sanskrit language. It's sthira sukha mukha. Asanam, and it means steady yet comfortable posture. So you can apply that into the physical postures of yoga, but it's also has another sort of translation of finding effort in ease and finding a little bit of ease in effort.
Oh, I like that. So, which is really a. Applicable outside of the yoga studio, right? So interacting with it, with your life, with yourself, with your relationships, with this balance of effort and ease. And we're not looking for total balance because that doesn't work, right? Like some things require a lot of effort, but how can you bring in that sense of ease, but then when you have full ease, maybe there's a little bit of effort that can help with focus and concentration and to be more intentional.
[00:16:10] Andrea: And I think when you have effort from that foundation of ease, of what I say in my practice when I'm working with clients, if you have focus and effort from a place of allowing , what you get from that effort is so much just stronger and better and more sustainable than if you try to effort from that place of resistance. You could be doing the exact same thing, but you're going to have two very different outcomes depending on where that effort is coming from.
[00:16:42] Sarah Jane: Absolutely. Yeah. It's kind of the same as motivating with criticism versus motivating with compassion. Yes,
[00:16:50] Andrea: You know, I've never got super into the yoga. I, I've had like entries into it, but I will never forget when I was, I was pretty young. I was really new into my diagnosis of multiple sclerosis and I was just trying things. I'm like, okay, I've got to figure out exactly what you were saying.
It wasn't the why, but it was the same kind of thing. I was like, okay, I've heard this is good. I need to find things that are good. I was a little bit high strung, should we say. And I was like, I got to bring it down a notch. Let's try the yoga. And what the yoga teacher said, and it's so funny because it's probably just one of the many things that she said during classes and whatnot, but it really has stayed with me decades later.
And she just, we were doing, I don't know, like tree pose or something that was on one foot. And she just said, find your balance. Your balance is going to be different. Every single day. And that, for me, that was everything. Hearing that from somebody who was so knowledgeable of these things of yoga and your balance and everything and coming from the standpoint of having this new diagnosis, trying to figure out figure out my body being so scared that all of a sudden anything can happen in MS,
and in those first years I was so scared and I was being really, I don't know if it was critical, but just very, like I just had an eye on my body. I was. always watching, like, is this normal? Is this what's happening?
Is this new? Is this different? Was it different than a couple of days ago? And I was exhausting myself. And so to be in this yoga class and have somebody say, like, look, your balance is different today than it will be tomorrow than it was yesterday. And it's 100% normal. And it was like this beautiful permission.
for me to just relax and it was just, it was just amazing. And like I said, it's stuck with me forever. It's such an important lesson to just have that. And I think what she was saying is it's in that ease, right? It's looking at your posture. It's looking at your balance and just having that ease and allowing that it's just going to be different.
And then it's going to be okay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So beautiful. So let's talk about your health journey a little bit because you've had this beautiful yoga practice that you've been building and in about 2018, you were dealing with fibroids, you'd had quite a long battle with fibroids in your body and in fact it was, you had one that was getting so large that it was impeding on other organs, is that right?
[00:19:30] Sarah Jane: Yeah. Yeah. So I'd had, uh, fibroids for a long time. I'd had a myomectomy, so a fibroid removal surgery 10 years prior to that in 2008 and just as fibroids do, they grew back and I had been Since the myomectomy in 2008, I had met my husband and we were trying to have a baby and I had multiple pregnancy losses and then a long period of unexplained infertility where I sought advice of, of specialists and had all the tests and all the poking and the prodding and they were like, well, We don't know.
So just keep going, it'll happen one day, which you can probably tell by the tone of my voice. So I didn't feel that that was really helpful or, or such great advice because it didn't. And they had recommended I have a second myomectomy probably in about 2016, but they also said that, you know, there's already scar tissue there and this Second surgery will also create more scar tissue.
So every time you have a surgery like that, it, I remember this so clearly, he used the words that the uterus will become an inhospitable place for a baby.
[00:20:57] Andrea: Oh, wow. What were you thinking when they said that? What went through your head?
[00:21:02] Sarah Jane: It already feels like it is because of the multiple pregnancy losses and then not being able to become pregnant.
So I was scared that it was going to become even The likelihood was going to be less, so I decided not to have my amectomy at that time. But then it became increasingly clear by just the sensations in my lower abdomen, I felt very full and lots of Pressure, my periods were so heavy. I remember having to take changes of pants with me everywhere.
I went sitting in the car on towels because sitting for a while and then standing up was a big event. I was so worried that I'd be in places, regular places in, in everyday life where you sit down and then standing up and like worried about, Oh, have I. Have I bled on the chair daily life was full of anxiety, but also every cycle that went by that I wasn't pregnant also increased the anxiety, increased the stress, increased the grief of not being able to have a baby.
And then around the beginning of 2018, I had a doctor's appointment and he was feeling my abdomen and he's like, you know, this is getting. it's too, your abdomen is too big. The pressure in there, the, it feels like these fibroids are really, really large. And so he recommended that I go see a specialist again, and I did, and she recommended A hysterectomy.
She didn't think that was possible to remove the fibroids without the hysterectomy because it wa it was actually one giant fibroid, which ended up being about seven or eight pounds on the cervix, all in the cervix. So it wa wasn't able to remove that without removing the cervix. And so that was, that was the recommendation.
[00:23:08] Andrea: And so at this point, you said you were already feeling like you had kind of lost hope that having a child was going to happen. Was this kind of the finality of that or what was going through your
[00:23:21] Sarah Jane: head? Yeah, it definitely felt final. It was so mixed as human experiences. always are. It was immense sadness, but also there was a little sort of like, tinkling of relief.
Like I'd so long been trying and like, and keeping up this endless hope and allowing myself to grieve a little bit, but keeping the grief At bay because I didn't really feel like, well, how, how can I keep hope? How can I hold hope and grief at the same time without, and still want to keep going? So it was a lot of pushing those deeper feelings of grief aside.
And so with the finality of the hysterectomy, there was that level of relief of like, Oh, well, maybe, maybe I can finally grieve. Maybe it's going to be okay. Life isn't going to look like I wanted it to. I'm not able to have the child that I wanted, but who knows what's, what's next? And it's clear, like there's, I can't go on like I am.
I need to have this surgery, and it is final in that way. So I went ahead and had it done.
[00:24:43] Andrea: And how long after that surgery was it until you were Able to look forward and start saying what you just said with the, you know what, maybe it's going to be okay. Maybe there's, maybe there's something else or there's going to be beautiful possibilities I can't even think of.
I know that didn't happen immediately.
[00:25:04] Sarah Jane: No, it did not. And it still comes in waves. The finality of childlessness and the grief of childlessness isn't a one time event because as we Age and as we go along in our lives, the absence of the Children that we wanted come along with us. We see folks around us having Children and all the different milestones and the things that people go through and they might even get to be grandparents.
So it's sort of. I don't want to paint the picture, the unrealistic picture that I decided it was going to be okay, and then, phew, I'm, I'm done with it. So to answer your original question, I'd say it probably, after having the surgery, I took the most time off I could. I was like, this is the only time. I think that I'm going to be like having the permission.
I don't know why I felt like I needed permission to just fully delve into this physical recovery. Like I was never going to have maternity leave. I was never going to have any of that stuff. So I'm going to take this time. So I took an extra long time for the recovery because it wasn't just the physical recovery.
It was a mental and emotional recovery as well. Of course. Which my doctors never spoke about, like that was sort of like I kind of came to that not through the advice of medical professionals, but just through thinking about what I needed on a more sort of holistic level. So I know I still haven't answered your question, but I'm getting to it.
[00:26:40] Andrea: No, I mean, take your time. I mean, it's, it's whatever's true for you, right? It doesn't, this is not, we're not like on the six o'clock news.
[00:26:52] Sarah Jane: So I'd say it was probably a year, a year and a half after that I was That I had found a somewhat relationship with grief where I was able to be with it. It wasn't so acute, you know, it wasn't sort of taking me down every day. I noticed my My reactions and my responses to, and my triggers around different things involving pregnancy and children and babies were starting to soften a bit.
They were like still there. So I found that there was, there was the spaciousness to start to sort of pop my head up and be like, okay, well, I have this experience. I have this grief, but what else? might there be out there?
[00:27:43] Andrea: What were the first things that you started to notice when you asked yourself that question?
[00:27:47] Sarah Jane: Yeah, just how much I could do things differently or the opportunities like to do things differently when I don't have. children when I'm not necessarily on that same schedule of like the school year or even the school day or so it started out with small freedoms that I felt okay well if because I'm self employed I can't and I'm not sort of tied to somebody else's schedule I can schedule my work how I want to and I can maybe work a bit less than I might otherwise have, if I have children, because my financial commitments are a bit less.
So it was just started out with those small everyday freedoms. And then I was starting to make some bigger plans and then COVID. hit. So those bigger plans were brought back into the small every day. But that's where I really see the value. I had this idea at first, okay, well, I, I can't have children. So I've got to somehow my things I do in my life have to be big to quote unquote, make up for it to sort of like have this big.
Plan B. But then I decided that I didn't really like that kind of thinking. Like I, I don't need to do big things in my life to prove my, my worth to myself or anybody else. If I want to do big things, then. Um, then I can, but it goes back to that idea of what's the functional objective. Am I doing this, like thinking I have to have this big plan B because I have to prove to others that, well, I'm, I'm spending my time wisely.
I'm doing this like big thing that's really good for the, for the world because I didn't have children.
[00:29:46] Andrea: Yeah. And I feel like other people have functional objectives. of what they think it's like for us, right? Especially as women, you know, you talked about the triggers and softening around them. And it just made me think I, so I don't have kids.
It's by choice, but I don't have them. And, and there's. A lot of people who don't have children, and even if it's by choice, there's thousands of reasons why, right? It's not just one decision. And so even if you have it by choice, there are still those triggers. Because, like I said, sometimes it feels like society has a functional objective for us as women.
Well, it does. Right? Yeah, it's like , you're going to have babies. And if you don't have babies, you have to prove yourself in like you said, in like this big way. I mean, I mean, still to this day, and it was worse, obviously, when I was younger, especially when I was in like my 20s.
And I was living in the south but it's still a little bit of Transcribed like an awkward, weird moment when I'm meeting people. Like if I'm at a networking event and I'm meeting someone for the first time and inevitably the question is, so do you have kids?
And I don't have kids. And, and again, it's like, it's by choice. I have my own reason. I had to reconcile with that reason, but it still is just like, there's that weird, awkward, like, nope, there it is.
[00:31:10] Sarah Jane: Dead air. Nobody knows what to say. It's really interesting because it's like. I would hope that somebody who does have children, that that's not the most interesting thing about them.
[00:31:22] Andrea: Yes, exactly. Sometimes you can see them like calculating in their head of like, Welp, I don't have anything in common with them.
[00:31:29] Sarah Jane: Right? No, I'm sure you have so many things that you could talk about. But yeah, folks are uncomfortable. with other people not having children, whether it be by choice or not by choice, by circumstance, any way that you get there.
It's like an instant conversation killer.
[00:31:49] Andrea: It really is. I don't know. I mean, and I have yet to find something that it's funny. It's like, I have yet to find something that really breaks the ice. Like usually I'll just be like, nope, but I have a dog or something. But even then, even then though, it's like I get mad at myself because I'm like, why am I putting the burden on me to smooth over the awkward corner that this conversation just went into because someone is assuming
I have kids.
[00:32:16] Sarah Jane: Yeah, why do you have to make it okay for them?
[00:32:19] Andrea: Yeah, and it's not to say everyone's like this. Usually this is something with like an acquaintance or a stranger. So like I have friends that have kids and I have friends with the people that you're close to. It's not an issue, but We're meeting people all the time.
We're in these situations all the time and it can just be so like, sometimes you're just kind of grabbing your drink and turning around and
[00:32:41] Sarah Jane: yeah,
[00:32:43] Andrea: so what, what do you say, like, how do you feel in situations like that? What are, what do you help like when you're talking with your clients, like what do you, what do you tell them?
[00:32:53] Sarah Jane: This is something that we practice as sort of an actual exercise that we do and there's multi levels to it because. Not every situation, the same answer wouldn't work in each situation. And I approach it from the, the point of your answer is empowering for you. So as opposed to the answer, that's going to make it okay for the other person.
And so your answer is going to be different if it's, you know, as you just said, at a networking event. at a family event, maybe a family member or, you know, a distant relative or something hasn't seen you in a while. And they're sort of like, even just asking, not just do you have kids, but, you know, people ask all kinds of intrusive questions about, you know.
Oh
[00:33:42] Andrea: yeah. Or they say things like, don't worry, it'll happen. And when it's like, you haven't even said anything besides like, no, I don't have kids.
[00:33:49] Sarah Jane: Yeah. Or like, what's taking you so long and the things like this. So, I actually work with my clients to, because many people can bring up four or five scenarios where this has happened and it's been different and what they felt like saying or wanted to say or did say was different in each scenario.
So we do journaling exercises about like, write all the things that you could say, like including the funny things like, Oh yeah, my dog doesn't like kids. That's why I don't have them. Or like, I'm a vegetarian or, you know, like just like silly things. Yeah.
[00:34:21] Andrea: My cat's allergic to kids. I've seen that one.
[00:34:23] Sarah Jane: Yeah, exactly.
So including silly things, what you actually want to say, which might be like super rude and mean, and you would never say because you're not a super rude and mean person. And then things that would feel good to say for each of those different scenarios. And then from looking at it, picking different elements of things that you actually would say, writing them out, like it's a little script.
I'm practicing them out loud. So because oftentimes in those scenarios, even though, you know, say you're going to an networking event, you know, someone's probably going to ask you, do you have kids, but you're still probably kind of caught off guard, right? Like you're like, and don't really know what to say.
And it's that sort of like, And you think about it after, like you just said, Oh, I often feel mad at myself, right? That I couldn't just say something. So this, so doing this exercise and writing it out beforehand and deciding what would feel really good and empowering for me to say in a number of these different scenarios, practicing it takes away that, that feeling of like, uh, being put on the spot a little bit.
So you're more able to answer from an empowered place and say something that you, you feel good about. I mean, it's probably not going to come out perfectly and it's going to be maybe a bit of a different scenario than you imagined, but over time, you can kind of. cobbled together a few things that work.
So my go to these days, depending on the situation, so the most recent time that this happened to me is I recently joined a community choir and it's for women and the invitation was if people had little kids. to bring the kids to the choir. So there was lots of talk about the kids. Lots of the women were, you know, meeting each other for the first time.
And inevitably somebody asked me, Oh, do you have children? And I felt comfortable. And I said, no, I really wanted to, but it didn't happen. And I'd really like to talk about something else. Say books. What book are you reading?
[00:36:33] Andrea: Oh, wow. That's great. I love how it's like, no, and I want to change the
[00:36:39] Sarah Jane: conversation.
I'm in control of this. Yeah. Here's, here's the off ramp. Yeah. Like I am setting, I'm answering your question, which you don't have to do if you don't want to, but I want to answer the question in that moment. I set a boundary and then I provided. the next step. So to move, move things along. So it wasn't just that awkward.
And because that feels good for me, you don't have to provide the off ramp. As you say, it's not your responsibility to make other people feel okay. If you would just want to say your answer and then state your boundary and then let things go as they go. You get to decide.
[00:37:23] Andrea: Yeah, I think it's interesting because the conversation that changes as you get older, I think, and as you move through because you're both processing it more. Other people see you differently. Like when I was in my 20s, like I said, like I had, I mean, it can get pretty crazy. Like you said, of like, when's it going to happen? And are you going to do it?
And of course you want it. And don't be silly. You just don't know. It's all of that. And it's not so much like that now, but I still sometimes feel. Like when I answer the question and if I'm honest about it, depending on again who I'm talking to, like it still almost feels like, no, I didn't, I didn't want a life like yours.
Like, right? No, we chose not to have kids because we, we did. Not that I don't, I mean, I love kids. It's not that I, I love my niece and nephew. I love all of that, but we just chose not to for our own reasons. And. Yeah. And sometimes it's like to just be honest and be like, no, we chose not to have kids. It's kind of like you just talk to me for 20 minutes about how you're running ragged because of school, whatever is going on.
And now I'm telling you like, yeah, I opted out of that. And again, it makes me feel like, like I have to do work. It's not my responsibility for how the person feels. Based on what my answer is,
[00:38:38] Sarah Jane: absolutely. Yeah. Cause folks take things on, they feel confronted by your, so it's like they think that you're making some kind of value judgment against them and their choices, but that's not the case.
You're not saying anything about them. You're talking about yourself and there's room. There's room for all experiences and all choices.
[00:39:00] Andrea: Yeah. And honestly, it's sometimes, and like you said, like this is nuanced, but sometimes the value choice is already put on us. It just happens to not be our values when it's asking the value choice of women should have kids.
And if you don't have kids, it's weird, right? Like that choice is already put. into our lap to answer the question. And so you're right. Sometimes it can feel confrontational. Sometimes it feels good to confront that and maybe change the story a little bit. And sometimes you're just tired. Yeah. Sometimes you're just tired and you want to talk about your heeler and that's it.
[00:39:36] Sarah Jane: Or, you know, that the person from the interactions you've had with them, it's not going to be a productive conversation. There's no need to get into situations where that you have identified aren't going to be good for you.
[00:39:48] Andrea: Right. Yeah. And I think that's great. I love, I love what you do where it's think about all the different scenarios.
Because like, even though you're not going to think of every scenario, you can think of a handful that, that are kind of a good sample and then create your answers and then give yourself that permission to write down your answers that you would never say out loud that are just, just get it out there to say it because sometimes we just want to.
[00:40:15] Sarah Jane: That's very real. That is a real part of your experience and it needs to be acknowledged and witnessed by you by getting it out of your brain and onto the piece of paper.
[00:40:28] Andrea: Yeah, let's start by not judging ourselves with our answers and let's give ourselves that grace. So you help women. You are also a health coach and talk to me about how you are helping women that are childless not by choice.
[00:40:43] Sarah Jane: So a number of things that sort of are umbrellas that we work with. So one thing is integrating grief. So grief is there in every journey to childlessness. It shows up differently and can be different based on different people's experience. But everybody has the right to their grief. So acknowledging grief and doing different sort of.
exercises and contemplations and readings around how grief is showing up and building a relationship with grief. Because like I said earlier, it's grief isn't something like, okay, I spend a little bit of time on and like, okay, now now that's what's next for as long as I live my experience of childlessness will ebb and flow.
So having this relationship and what we call keeping grief warm allows to recognize that along the way. And to give myself the permission and the space to recognize when it's coming up and having some tools and ideas around. How can I care for myself? How can I soothe myself in those different moments and times of grief?
So that's one, integrating grief. The second sort of pillar is amplifying agency. So agency being that recognizing that you have choices. And learning how to make them. And so the methodology is, is again, kind of the same self reflection, contemplation. This is where I actually bring in movement practice, yoga practice, because when we do things with our bodies that say like making choices, it helps cement and build confidence in that we have choice and we can make it.
As in a journey to childlessness, no matter how you get there, choice was taken away at one point or many points along the way. So this erodes from, in my experience and in many other childless women that I've spoken with, it erodes self confidence and this idea that we can make good choices. Because think we've tried something like tried to have a baby and made choices that we think are going to have that outcome and they haven't.
And so that's a really big, you know, it's a life altering experience. So we start with building confidence with making choices through trauma informed yoga. So it's a little bit different than in a regular studio class. The cueing is where it sort of comes in. So in a regular studio class, someone might say, Raise your arms above your head, and everybody lifts their arms up.
In this trauma informed yoga, the cue is, Raise your arms to a height that works with your shoulders today. So you have to think about, oh, what height does work with my shoulders today? You have to tune into how it feels in your body. You have to make decisions and you have to be willing to make a decision that might look different than the person next to you.
And so that's where you build the confidence in making your own decisions for yourself based on the functional objective, despite what's going on around you. So that's amplifying agency. And then the further, the last one is embodying possibility. So that idea of looking up, looking around, like what's possible now for me on a daily basis on, and maybe your career, maybe in your social life, in all aspects of your life, what's possible now.
And starting with what do you even like? Because I know for myself and for many women that I've spoken with, when the hyper focus is on one thing. And having a baby and that you never get to have that thing, your view just gets narrower and narrower and narrower and add grief onto that, which also creates a very narrow way of being and envisioning your life.
It can be hard to remember or even know what you like anymore. So we start with what kinds of things did you like to do when you were a kid? You know, maybe you loved. horseback riding and somewhere along the way you've just stopped. So maybe that's something that you want to try out again. Or maybe you loved coloring.
There's lots of adult coloring books. You don't need to be a, you know, a proficient artist. to do artwork or maybe you like pottery or maybe you haven't read a novel in a long time because you've just been so focused on informational books that are going to help try and and get you where you are so maybe you you read a novel so trying to look for these things which you call glimmers so there's triggers like a cue in the nervous system.
So, and it's usually to amplify the nervous system into a flight or fight response. Glimmers are things that you think about or bring to mind or do that downregulate the nervous system that get you that like cozy feeling that like, Oh yeah, I really like this kind of feeling. So we, we work on a smaller level with those glimmers.
to try and see, to open up small pathways of possibility. And then we build out from there.
[00:46:24] Andrea: I love that. So something that came to my mind, and it was from talking earlier, when you say not by choice, I wanted to get some clarity on that because I know, like I said before, there's a lot of people who are child, who don't have kids by choice.
But there's a thousand reasons why they made that choice. And sometimes the choice is not that it was a completely closed door, like they had a hysterectomy or something like that, but it seems like such an impossible choice that to move forward with something that technically is possible, it would be detrimental.
because there are so many risk factors with whatever chronic illness you have or what's going on. And, and so choice is technically made, but they still feel like the fullness of that choice wasn't even available. Are those people that you work with as well?
[00:47:12] Sarah Jane: Yes, absolutely.
So yeah, I'm glad you brought this up because a choice is a funny thing, right? So if you look at my story, I technically chose to have a hysterectomy. I gave consent to that. I chose not to pursue adoption or fostering, but that's not really a choice. There's many reasons. So we chose not to do IVF. That was for financial and health reasons, but technically.
I chose not to, right? So this idea of who's making the choice and who isn't, it's the person themselves. So maybe you are childless because you didn't meet somebody during your fertile years. that you would feel suitable that would, that you would have a child with. That's not by choice. Maybe you had an upbringing and in your family and for whatever reason you didn't feel confident that you would be a suitable parent, so you didn't pursue it.
That would also fall into the category of not by choice. As you say, maybe there's illness, maybe there's financial considerations. It's, it's really, really broad. It's not only folks who have had my experience of a hysterectomy, and it's a pretty clear line, but it doesn't have to be. It's defined that, that not by choice is defined by the person themselves.
[00:48:44] Andrea: So I know there are people listening that absolutely want to get in touch with you. I'm going to have information in the show notes, information in the description of this episode, but tell people how they can get in touch with you.
[00:48:56] Sarah Jane: So the place is my website and it's embodied. Possibility. com and I write a weekly article.
So I'm very active on that website. So there's lots and lots of information and resources. I also am active on social media, mainly on Instagram, and that is also at embodied possibility.
[00:49:19] Andrea: Fantastic. Sarah Jane, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. And I know I learned a lot. I know listeners have learned a lot and I really, I really appreciate you sitting down and talking with me.
[00:49:32] Sarah Jane: Thank you so much. I appreciate being here.
[00:49:35] Andrea: If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five star rating and review. Follow us on Apple podcast, Amazon music, or wherever you're listening right now. To see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode, visit andreahansoncoaching. com.

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Mayda Poc
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Hanson. The identity shift that comes from developing a chronic illness. It's something that I talk about quite a bit. I think partly because it's a real phenomenon that I see all the time with my clients, I've experienced it myself. And also, because I think it's just fascinating.
We develop these identities that are tied to our health. Our work, our ability to contribute to our family and our community.
And when something happens like a chronic illness or a death of somebody close to us, or even an abrupt career change, these identities that we hold so close. Are not just changed, but gone. It's like we're shedding a very big layer. The layer of who we think we are, how we fit into our family. Our community, our world.
And what shedding this layer uncovers can be a whole host of things. It can be feelings like shame and fear and uncertainty, even grieving.
It can uncover our true values and beliefs that we didn't realize that we had. And shedding, this layer can open us up to whole new perspectives and worlds that weren't previously available to us. Because we weren't open to them. That's what this week's guest uncovered as a part of her journey after her diagnosis. Mayda Poc is an international life and career coach whose previous identity is an investment banker was in some ways, very different from her identity. Now.
In this week's episode, we talk about how to shift that identity and why we have it in the first place.
Mayda is so honest and open about her identity when it came to being successful and a top earner. And how she shifted it to become much more loving towards herself and redefining herself worth. Mayda takes her experiences from working in a very fast paced environment and helps high achieving people in similar fast paced careers. Find joy.
And peace and passion in their lives. As she puts it, her mission is to help others find their way back to what makes their heart sing. Even if it means being an investment banker. I loved talking to my data and we go deep on quite a few topics around finding joy. And redefining things like self-worth and what validation from other people really means.
This was a great conversation and I can't wait for you to meet Mayda and hear her story. Please enjoy this week's episode and visit Andrea Hanson coaching.com for more on Mayda Poc resources that we talk about in the show and transcripts from today's episode. You can find the link to all of that. In this episode description.
[00:00:00] Andrea: Welcome to the Live Your Life, not Your Diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker and master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told I would never reach my goals, but I did and I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view, and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds to inspire you to achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw, uncensored, and judgment free listener discretion is advised.
I'm here today with Mayda Poc. From Wall Street to international life and career coach for executives and fast-paced industries. After more than 16 years in the financial industry in Paris, London, and New York, and a life happens event, Mayda Poc left investment banking to become an international life and career coach, focusing on helping executives find more zen fulfillment and purpose in their lives and careers.
As your typical overachiever Mayda holds multiple certifications and accreditations, life coaching career in corporate as well as health coaching a certified hypnotist and MI a uses neurolinguistic programming as well as emotional freedom technique. MAA speaks four languages having spent part of her childhood in Syria, then in France, she now resides in New York City with her hubby.
Mayda, welcome.
[00:01:40] Mayda: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be
[00:01:43] Andrea: here. I am so excited. I'm so excited to talk to you. One of the things that, that really jumped out when I was reading through your bio and all your other things, Is that I was also, I was in finance, which is kind of like a cousin career to, to investment banking.
And I get it. I get that fast-paced industry. I get that whole, that whole wor, it's like a whole other world that you just don't, you don't get it unless you've been in it.
[00:02:12] Mayda: Exactly. I call that fast and furious. Yeah. I think I really, honestly, now that I do the, the job that I do where I work, not only with people with FI in finance, but in other industries as well, like luxury retail startups, I don't think there's anything that compares to the craziness of being, it's, it's just doesn't exist.
No, sorry. It's very self-serving, it feels like, but crazy. It's just. I don't know how humans can do that, but I guess way. Right.
[00:02:48] Andrea: One of the most common questions I got asked more so closer. I mean, it's been a while since I worked in finance, but one of the things people would always ask me is, is it really like Gordon Gecko?
And my answer was 100%. Absolutely.
[00:03:04] Mayda: You, you have some crazy behaviors. Yeah. And at the same time, I would say like 90% of the people are normal. They're, they're just normal people. They, they have kids, they're married or not, don't have kids, whatever, but they just want a nice life for themselves. The, the issue in these industry is that, It's so much geared to our survival.
Mm. There's never enough. So that's Gordon Geiko Greed is good because it justifies a lot of shitty behaviors. Yes. And one of the things that I found really important, and I continue to share this, is that. You can have crazy people around you. You can have people behaving badly around you or not being in integrity, but you don't have to, you still can have a career.
You still can have a job. You still can have a life where you are okay? And you are satisfied looking at yourself in the mirror and not saying, you know, and don't tell yourself, I how, how on earth can I survive this? Or How on earth can I live with what I did? But sometimes there's this. Kind of, we want to feel part of that tribe in a way.
So breaking free from what other people tell you to do or what are doing and not comparing yourself to others. Because some of them engage in not very good behavior and they get promoted and you know, they get the big bonus and you're like, oh yeah,
[00:04:37] Andrea: not me. Yeah. They get like put on top of the world.
It's, it's funny because I was doing it when I was. Very young, and that was a little bit like that. And like a couple other small businesses I worked on that were all kind of the same thing. It was my introduction to the corporate world. And so I'm young, I don't really understand, like I'm outta school, I don't understand corporate and I'm looking at all of this and it's like very much.
The Okay. Accepted behavior. And so it's like you feel yourself getting sucked into it and then all of a sudden it's like, when I got out of it, I was like, who was I? Like, I can't believe I was actually thinking about doing these things. Like this is insane. And I got into it because I got diagnosed and I was in school at the time and I was like, I can't.
Have the luxury of being a student. I gotta go into this career, which by the way, pays very well. So I kind of ran into it. You had a little bit of a different story. You didn't necessarily run away from it when you got diagnosed, but you were doing it when you got diagnosed. Yes. Talk a little bit about that.
Yes.
[00:05:41] Mayda: So talk about, I'm sure if that was messed up. Or not. So I'm trying myself here, but it's very difficult. So for me, when I diagnosed with cancer,
Really not being able to breathe anymore. And because I'm someone who believes that the outside matches the inside and you know, everything is symbolic or, or, or not, for a very long time, for me it was my job is suffocating me. I'm suffocating at this job. I can't take it anymore. This is not for me. And so for two years I started having difficulty breathing.
And for two years I first I ignored it because that's how I am. I, oh, it's going to go on its own. I'm going to continue doing acupuncture. You know, it's, it helps. I've always done acupuncture and natural stuff, so it was not unusual for me to sing that way, but it's really, at some point I realized that having cancer, Was actually an inconvenience for me.
I was there, I was at the job. I had this nice, very stressful job where I was the head of equity syndicate. I was working with Hong Kong, with the Middle East, with Europe, with Latin America, and North Latin America. It was a lot of things going on, and for me being diagnosed, it meant. I'm not going to be able to be on the management call tonight because I have to go or I have to, I, I remember a conversation with the oncologist at that time that I used to call Maestro cause he was fun and, uh, he took himself very seriously.
He was, he had a lot of reasons to take himself so seriously, but it was fun for me and I said, well, After the first or the second chemos, like, you know, I'm thinking about taking the day I received the chemo off because I'm having some trouble writing my emails. It was a Blackberry at the time on my Blackberry while having the.
The chemo going through my veins and he looked at me like, you're another level of a nut job. You know?
So I did take that day off and then with time I had to stay to work, you know, the week of chemotherapy. I had to work from home because I was. Pumped with liquids and I was feeling very bloated and it really didn't feel good. But mostly working with being diagnosed has been a bit of a savior for me, or my saving grace because my mother had cancer at the same time as me.
And my mother lives in Paris and she was diagnosed with breast cancer and she was diagnosed literally a week before I got, and I was very scared for her. I was really, really very scary for her because, That was something that she's always dreaded her own life. She doesn't have a family history. But for me, when I got diagnosed, it went a bit in the background because it was, I wanted my mother to be okay, and the job took over completely and all of a sudden I was living with cancer.
I, I wasn't having cancer. Cancer wasn't ruling my life. My life was, I. I had a cycle of Monday evening, I leave the office at five. I shut everything down because I was going to have chemotherapy. The next morning I would wake up. My husband was really very supportive, would come with me to the clinic. I would receive.
There will always be something happening during the chemotherapy going home. Then having the night of crisis where it doesn't feel okay at all. And then three days of working from home. And then I go back to the office. I think one of the things about living with your diagnosis or having a diagnosis and living with it is, as the title of of your podcast says, is you're, it's not you.
It's not your life. It's part of. But it doesn't define you. It doesn't, it can prevent you from doing certain things. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, you can find your freedom in a lot of other places. Maybe this is the invitation.
[00:10:09] Andrea: When did you have that? I don't want to say moment, because usually it's not a moment, but when did you look at it and say, this cancer does not define me
[00:10:18] Mayda: very quickly.
Very quickly because I was very pissed. Yeah.
[00:10:23] Andrea: Yeah. I can imagine.
[00:10:26] Mayda: I've, I've always eaten very healthfully. I've never done anything crazy. I've never been somebody who partied. I've never smoked. I've, I, I literally, I've never done anything else but working in my life, and that was the unhealthy part. And getting cancer was like, What the heck?
Why? Why me? What did I do? It was more like what did I do to myself? Where am I responsible for that? Right. And at that point, like, you know what? I don't know if I'm going to survive it or not. I had ho Hodgkins is, it is highly curable, but me, I was on the other side of that statistic. It was quite literally everywhere.
[00:11:09] Andrea: Just explain. What it is to be just very briefly to people who don't know which Hodgkin Yes. Hodgkin's lymphoma. So
[00:11:17] Mayda: Hodgkin's lymphoma is a blood cancer that affects your lymph nodes and they become to swell. And there are several types, there are a lot of different types of lymphomas. The one of the rare ones, But most known ones is Hodgkins, because generally it affects people who are younger.
They're in their twenties when when you hear about people in college having cancer and blood cancer, generally Hodgkins. The protocol for Hodgkins has been for a long time now it's. Changing, but it has been a classic chemotherapy and it's highly effective. It's very intensive. It destroys a lot of different things, but it's highly effective as well in in curing that cancer and gets you into remission.
And of course there are other issues that happen after remission, like with. Anything. There are always side effects, but Hodgkin's Olin is a cancer that is highly curable and among the most curable. I was a bit on the other side of that statistic because I waited first. I was older, I wasn't 20, although in my head maybe, but not biologically.
Also, I think one of the things as well that made it more difficult as well was the fact that it took me literally two years to get the diagnosis. It's notoriously difficult to diagnose because there are there symptoms that people can interpret in isolation very differently until something happens.
And for me, something happens was collapsing on the street because I just. Couldn't breathe anymore. And the diagnosis at that time was, I had acute asthma or whatever and you know, I was like, okay, fine. I have asthma. So I took the, how you call that, the, the inhalers and it was like, you, you are not you using it.
Well, and then I had like a helmet to have it and it never worked. Simply because it wasn't that the problem,
[00:13:14] Andrea: right? But it was a little, it was still some of that like, what am I doing wrong? It's me that's doing
[00:13:19] Mayda: something. Yeah. And it was a relief. Once you have, this is when they say the truth sets you free.
Maybe not in the same context, but once you know what you have, You can go into making plans, you can go into the action rather than feeling almost like victimized, and I don't like this word, but there word, but I don't, for the lack of better word. It's like you, you don't feel like everything around you is happening and you have no say because you don't know what's going on.
Once you know what's going on, then it's like, okay, now what? And now what? So you have a lot of people who are coming to you with a lot of ideas, some good, some really not good. You make a choice. You make a choice for yourself. You speak up for yourself. And then, you know, like this hero's journey, I think.
I think everything is a hero's journey and a diagnosis. Oh my gosh, yes. Yes. It is one of them, and there are little hero's journeys inside all of that. But the hero's journey, like any hero's journey, you will have helpers, you'll have people who will come your way. You'll have teachers, you will have to, mentors will have people who will not be helpful.
Mm-hmm. They are. Every one of them is there to give you one piece of what is missing for you. To live your diagnosis. I'm going to say the best possible, I'm not sure is the right word, but to feel like you're still yourself. You still matter. You. You're not belittled because there's something bigger than you that is called cancer or, or death or, or whatever.
There's life and you're alive and you still have your brain and you can still use it for so many different things. Mm-hmm. It's an invitation, again, to kinda find your freedom and big free of. Whatever you thought people are expecting
[00:15:05] Andrea: of you. So during this time though, you, you have not left your job. You have figured out this amazing week, which I remember because I, I wasn't doing chemo, but I was in the infusion center a lot and getting a different infusion.
And I remember seeing people just like you who were there getting infusions on their laptops, on their blackberries, like just going at it and they're like, Nope. Going back to work. You know, I'm all done. And I'm thinking like, what? The heck. And so you were still, you were, you were dealing with this diagnosis, you were dealing with your mom's diagnosis.
You were dealing with leading up to the diagnosis, trying to figure out what it is. You created this amazing weekly schedule for yourself where you were, you were kind of weaving in chemotherapy and not feel great, feeling great with this high pressure, high stress, crazy job. And you stayed there for how long after your diagnosis?
[00:16:02] Mayda: Two years. Two years. Two years until completely out of nowhere. This is where, here's journey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The call to action, right outta nowhere. I had a panic attack on a Sunday morning because, I received an email saying we need to get on a call. And again, this is a job where I used to start my day at 4:00 AM and finish it at 9:00 PM and working on what weekends.
So it wasn't like a huge surprise. It was like, oh my goodness, what's going on? But that was my tipping point. I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah. And then there was that voice inside of me, so I'm like, I don't think I'm, I'm mentally crazy. Or
[00:16:48] Andrea: there's sometimes no, we all have voices inside of our head, all of us.
[00:16:52] Mayda: This one was pretty clear and pretty loud, and it says to me, something around, you'd better do something about it because the next one will not be as pleasant. Now, the next one in my head was the next cancer because, When you get out of chemotherapy and these kind of intensive, especially in blood cancers, there is a higher chance of going back, of having something similar or leukemia, whatever, and the, the following two to three years because again, chemotherapy is very intense and this is blood cancer.
So it's, the whole body is not, you know, taking a tumor out a place. And it's not like the first one was particularly pleasant, but I did well. I really did. I was very proud of my,
[00:17:39] Andrea: you're such an overachiever. Even I did the same thing. I was like, I crushed it. I'm crushing this MS thing.
[00:17:46] Mayda: Exactly.
If it were in French, I would say something like, meant not even hurting me. Didn't feel anything all good. I did feel that if I continued that way and it wasn't going to go very well for me, and in hindsight, the most interesting part is that probably it wasn't the, the message quote unquote message wasn't necessarily about continuing the job or not.
It was about continuing the way. I was living my life, which are two very different things, but at that time, I didn't have the tools to say, it's not about the job, or I didn't have anybody to tell me it, are you sure it's about the job or is it something else? Or is it maybe your mindset or your mentality at that point?
So now I, I do see that, but at that point, like I, I can't, I don't know what else to do. I chow.
[00:18:46] Andrea: I just gotta outta get outta here. Bridge that gap. What happened between, and how long was it between leaving your job and investment banking and becoming a career coach for people who were just like you?
[00:19:00] Mayda: It took me some time because quite literally I was in PTSD when I left the job.
One of the reasons why I was so there is the first two days of elation. And then there's the after elation, the sobering up. I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to do with my life. Do I even have the right to have a life if I'm not bringing money? It's, I can't do that. Am I without this? Very pleasing identity that is investment banker, and it's so pleasing that up until now I'm still talking about it.
This is how pleasing it's, and it's very pleasing and it's very normal. We live in societies where the first thing that we define ourselves with is what you do and what you don't do. Who are you? And you have the right even to open your mouth and have anything to say. There was a long route for me between what, what am I here to do?
What am I good at? What do I want to do? Which in each one of them was I have no strictly no idea what to do, what I'm good at, and no, I don't want to do anything. But I'm very scared of not doing anything, this internal tug of war and then saying, okay. That was cancer. Let's see what happens now. Let's see what happens.
And. What do you know? I speak with one person who tells me, oh, you know, my sister goes with to this coaching program. Would you? Maybe you should try it. I go, I like it from there. Another person who tells me, oh, you know, there's this other thing. Would you would be fun to have you with us. My sister calls me and we have a discussion and she's like, oh, you know, you should really do some hypnosis.
My sister is a hypnotherapist in Paris because this is really very much for you. You're very intellectual. You will be able to course I do that part of the hypnosis. I meet another friend of hers and the two of them are doing a career, corporate life coaching program.
I think there is like, exactly like with cancer, and I can talk for a long time about this sort of happenstance or ity, synchronicity. I'm not exactly sure how to define this, but there is a moment where. You know, you don't know what you don't know, and you are okay with that because there's nothing else left for you to do.
Then to continue that path and things will start happening, and if we are open-minded, And if we accept that whatever we think should happen might not happen, but maybe something else could be maybe more interesting, more exciting, different, then we start seeing these little signs or little sparks or little pieces of life showing up for us, and we rediscover joy.
We discover connection, and it takes time. It's not going to happen overnight, but it does.
[00:22:04] Andrea: I find that in those moments where you are completely open and because you're completely open, you see things that you wouldn't necessarily see before. What comes before that is a complete release. Of an anything and everything.
And it doesn't have to be a bad thing. It doesn't have to be from your diagnosis. It doesn't have to be it. It happened for me after my dad passed and I had an intense grieving, and I just cocooned. I let go of everything and. Like I said, you don't have to be in these terrible, huge, life-changing moments, but sometimes that's when you do just let go of everything.
Leaving a job is another thing, right? Like cutting off this identity. Like, I mean, you're right, an identity, especially in a very high powered, high paying, fast-paced jobs, somehow it's this badge of honor that we have because we've been there. And letting go of that is such a drastic change in identity and that kind of thing is a precursor for being able to just be completely open-minded because you've let go of all pretenses, I'm almost going to say you let go of all ego and all identity and you are s are very open to what's to come.
[00:23:29] Mayda: Yes, and I'm going to tell you another thing. It was really cancer that taught me that because when I got diagnosed I was very lost and I did what I do is like, I don't care. Just give me whatever I need to do and I don't care. It's, I'm annoyed. And then I discovered so much support around me. I was so touched.
My team, my whole team, and again, this is, this is people I, I love my team and we were very close to each other and we're a very good team, but my whole team would be helping me when during that day where I wasn't in the office, I had people from other departments come and have, Flowers on my desk for every Monday.
When I went back to the office, my boss, who as well, had cancer at some point in his life, did a fundraising. They used my story and we had people from. Brokers and other banks that I've never met in my life, just pouring the money and there is $20,000 on my story only. And the people, I have no idea who they're, but this for me was, we spoke earlier about Gordon, Geico.
But here's the opposite. I don't know what the opposite of it's. It's using this power, it's using the smarts, it's using your connections for the greater to good, and all of a sudden it showed me as well that. People who took me for granted or I thought were taking me for granted, were not like that at all.
I had very senior people from the bank come and speak with me and tell me, listen, we we're here to support you. If you need to take time off, like no, absolutely not. Don't talk about time off, but if you need, your desk is still here, nothing will happen. We want you to know that. And there's a show of humanity.
There's a show of kindness. That. I mean, I expected from people on my team because I've known them for a long time and we've always been a very supportive to each other, but I didn't expect it from people I've never met in my life, ever. It was extraordinary.
[00:25:46] Andrea: One of the interesting things that happens when we leave that environment and it's not only is it the team environment and working with people, but it's also you are used to working at a certain pace, right?
You are used to doing and you're working with people who are all working at that same pace. That's kind of what makes it hum and somehow that's just a muscle memory that comes with you. Did you find yourself when you were starting this next career with the career coaching and the working with the other life coaches and that kinda, did you find yourself kind of falling into feeling like you had that hustle and you just kind of applied it to your next job?
[00:26:28] Mayda: I felt the pressure of doing that. There was a competing something else inside of me that said, I can't do that anymore. I don't want to do that anymore. But so yes, exactly a muscle memory, but at the same time, it was so much driven by form of shame that I had inside of me of. Again, not producing, not being successful, whatever that meant at that point, not being someone who was getting up and, and going, getting and doing seven figures or six figures or whatever the number is.
I had a lot of shame inside of me of not being able to actually be that person who wants to go and kill it in life. Right. It took me a long time To get rid of that as well. That was also another step in my maturing as a second career, as in, yes, I want to earn money, of course, because no money I live in New York City. No money, no, no life.
It's, I, there's no way around that. But at the same time, it's not only about the money. It's about living a life where I feel I exist and I decide what exist means and I decide what the terms are, and I decide that if tomorrow I want to bring my business to the next level. It's within my responsibility to do that.
And it's me. It's not my parents telling me that I have to do it, because by age, whatever, I'm supposed to be multimillionaire. It's not my community, whatever that is, that tells me, you know, you're a spiritual person. You are not supposed to make money. It's, it's none of that. It's about being my own self and it's about knowing that.
What I do, I'm responsible for it and what I do, I do it for a purpose that I don't have to apologize for is mine and mine only.
[00:28:28] Andrea: You know, that's a really good point that you were just making, is that a lot of times we have our own pressures that we put on ourselves. And then a lot of times we have pressures that we think other people are putting on us because they expect us to be doing these things.
And so we in turn say, oh, well I expect myself to do that. And that's something that you help your clients with, I know is kind of divorcing themselves from what they think other people are expecting from them.
[00:28:55] Mayda: And it's hard. It's hard because it's so ingrained and because. Even in the places where they work, it is part of the motivation.
If I'm not made managing director by age, whatever, and all my friends are, then I'm a failure. What other people are going to think about me? And it's true. There is a big part of that is that if you want to find a job somewhere else, having been at a title for 10 years and not being promoted, people are going ask the question.
The question is how do you detach yourself from that narrative? And how do you create a story of your career, of your achievements, of who you're, regardless of what people think of you, and regardless of what you think people think of you. So we're going to go back into being a bit more individualistic in that point of view, as in.
Society wants people to look some way. You know, it's better to be young, healthy, and rich than, you know, young. We're not going to stay there long, long time, whatever old means, whatever. But you know, it's like self, it means beautiful is what it means. Yes, yes. It's, you know, one of those self-fulfilling prophecies that, you know, like the train is gone and you're running behind it and you'll never catch it, but you can decide that.
Maybe my purpose in life and purpose in life is not necessarily a job, but my purpose in life is to have an impact. And how do I feel good about myself at the job? How do I feel good about myself in my family or with my friendships or in the world at large? And, and so the pressure doesn't come from you to.
From yourself to, I want to succeed because achievement is becoming managing director by 40 or by 35 for certain people. It's crazy, but it comes from, I am here, I feel good. I feel proud of myself when I accomplish X, Y, Z. And accomplishing is not necessarily doing something. Accomplishing is for me sometimes is I wake up in the morning and I don't have anxiety and I feel good about myself.
Like, oh. Today I feel like I'm in this kind of like serenity place where I have seven calls back to back, and I'm going to be fine because I actually like it.
[00:31:20] Andrea: So how can people start to even verbalize that , because you're right, so much of our self-worth can come from.
Your job, your earning power. And if you're not, if you're not working, then it comes from how much are you contributing to the household, how much are you contributing to what's going on? And so sometimes instead of working at, you know, crazy hours at a job, you're becoming like this taskmaster , at home and a lot of our self-worth can get wrapped up in. Our production and part of that is just, it's just kind of how society will define it. I remember when I first started my job, or my business, I should say literally a month in all people wanted to know is how many clients do you have?
Yeah. Like it was such a flex question and I was so young and so wrapped up in my identity and my worth being how many clients? I would have like little mini attacks every time because I was like, oh my God, I don't have any clients. How do you go from that to. Okay. You know what? These are my values. This is what I'm going to now define myself as.
This is what I am now going to define myself worth as and and have it be okay that it's not what. The world at large defines
[00:32:37] Mayda: yes worth as, and I'm going to go back to what you said earlier, muscle memory. And I think that this, this mental programming is also a muscle memory that needs to be kept in check. So I'm going to start with something very simple as just observe yourself when you go there and ask yourself, is it really true?
And sometimes it's. If, if you are going to a, a big charity, whatever event or trade event and everybody is on Wall Street and you are the only one not there, you're not likely to feel at ease there cause you're ugly duckling over the. So maybe think about why you're, you want to go there and if you decide to go there, it's because you're different.
So you own your difference. But on then I would say, number one, observe yourself when you go there and ask yourself, is that really true? And one of the things that I tell my clients, so either they have kids or they have pets. And it was like I had a cat for a long time. I would never go and tell my cat, you're useless.
You don't do anything all day long. It would never really come to me to say that to a kid, to a pet, to a dog. It doesn't happen. Why? Why would I say that to myself? It's not true. So first let's take out this narrative and see it as just being a habit that we have put upon ourselves. That was the way we motivated ourselves for a long time.
Like you have to be grade A student, you have to be an mba, you have to be first in class, blah, blah, blah. All of that. In the past, it's still somewhere in the brain. It's still active. It's our job to tell it. I understand you're here from me. I understand you love me and you want the best for me. I totally understand it.
But it's not the right moment. That will be when I want to be promoted, then we will use that energy. But right now it doesn't, it's not helpful for me. What, so let's, let's leave it and then the second step is to go back to, as you were saying, your values, your vision, what you want in life. So if you, what you want in life is having a certain lifestyle, let's, let's go that way.
If it's having a certain lifestyle and it means having a certain amount of money, Then maybe you are in the right place, and in that case, own it, but know exactly what you are putting yourself into and why you're doing it. So you just like, you're not apologizing for being on Wall Street, or you're not apologizing for being a coach, or you're not even apologizing for being a coach that is starting because it takes a lot of courage to start over.
A lot of courage because this is the, the whole identity is shredded. You have to reinvent yourself. It's a very difficult rock bottom where people look at you and say, some of them not. You have very supportive people and then you have this odd person's like, why did you destroy everything you have built for so many years?
Did
competing talks. Inner talks, outside talks, a lot of noise as well. But remember, what is your vision? What do you want from your life? Likely for most people is to have a nice life. Safety, security, not having to worry about, you know, paying bills and or whatever. It's of some people, it's having a family and, and being with them.
So connect back to that and see how your definition of success is all of a sudden very different now. It's not about having this big paycheck or having this title. It helps, but it could be, you know what? I am pretty content with my life right now. I'm healthy. I have a shelter, I have a home, I have friends.
I go out, I save money. Whatever it is that you feel success is, and sometimes success is getting out of bed. It's just like there are days where really we don't want get out and yet do it, and that is check the box. I've been successful today and things only you can decide what it.
[00:36:53] Andrea: So what is success for you in your life right now?
How do you define that
[00:36:58] Mayda: right now? For me, success is being able to share what I know and feeling confident about it. When I started as a coach, I had a lot of trouble talking about cancer. It wasn't even mentioned in my, in my website. Even now, I say life happens. I don't, I rarely talk about cancer simply because I don't feel I earned it in no way.
[00:37:25] Andrea: Oh, interesting. What do you mean by that?
[00:37:27] Mayda: So I feel that it went fine for me. It was a very smooth time in my life. There were, there were a lot of obstacles and there were a lot of issues, but I don't feel I have the right to use it in a way that it's not, it doesn't, again, it doesn't define me, but it was more like, no, I'm fine.
I was fine. I don't have the right to complain about it. It went fine. I didn't have to struggle for it. Today, I'm bit more lax about it or bit more relaxed in the sense where I feel that. Cancer has brought me so many blessings in terms of life lessons and rediscovering who I am and what I wanted in life that I'm proud of.
Being able to share that to other people and maybe to have them. I don't know, like an eyeopener in a way, or wake up call or whatever it is, but just to say there's more to life than whatever is happening, so don't get too wrapped up in it. Imagine your life in five years. Would that matter? Sometimes it does.
Cancer would matter. It diagnosis will always matter because. Hey, sometimes you know, opening the door and you are reminded of it, so it's part of your life, but it's what you do with it and you are certainly an inspiration for a lot of other people. You don't see it. You don't feel it because you're inside, but people look up to you.
It's like, this is courageous. This person shows up every single day. Yes, there are days where they're feeling bad. There are days where really they hate their lives. But overall they're there. They stand up for themselves and they give other people the courage as well to say, if that person can do it, then maybe I too can do something extraordinary in my life and extraordinary.
Again, it's not to save the planet. If you want to, you can, but it's sometimes too inspire another person. It's sometimes just to say thank you to someone who you don't know what's going on in their life, and they just needed this acknowledgement.
[00:39:30] Andrea: I love that. It reminds me of a conversation that I had with another guest about how sometimes the most inspiring thing we can do is live out our life in a very honest, open way, because you never really know who's looking at you and getting inspired.
[00:39:48] Mayda: Yes. And at the same time, it's not about inspiring other people, it's about you. And because, so it's not about validation and it's not about pleasing other people. It's literally about being happy with who you are. And there will be days where you're going like, oh, I have big thighs and I have this, and I have gray hair, and I hate that blah, blah, blah.
There will be this like this. But at the end of the day, again, you show up and you're courageous. It's a bit like action and reaction thing. The reaction will be for someone that you don't know who has been observing this and says exactly what you said, this is inspiration, but really it's about you. It's about what you want.
It's about how you want to live your life and why. Mm-hmm.
[00:40:40] Andrea: I'm glad you brought that up, that idea of validation because I guarantee you, there were people who said, I.
Oh my gosh. Mayda she was working in this job and she was going through chemo and she was amazing and she showed up every day and like you might not even know who it is, like it might not even be anything that you ever know, but you have still inspired people by just living your life. But on the other side can be like an addiction to get that validation. How do you help your clients to kind of get away from that? It's like, yeah, it's like a, it's like a drug. It's like a hit every time
[00:41:12] Mayda: you get valid. Exactly. It like dopamine, like woo, yes. Then, then someone says, yes, but, and then that's a soft landing.
There's to observe that. To observe that, and so, Yourself. You're just making fun of yourself as in like, oh, I did that thing so that the person you know says, thank you back to me. It wasn't that unconditional and it's fine. We're all humans. We'll all have that. We need feedback from others. We, we live with others, especially in the workplace.
It's very difficult not to have validation and actually, One of the issues in the workplace is people not getting validated enough. But there is this validation that is needed as a feedback because that's part of the job, and there is this addiction, as you were mentioning, where anything and everything that we do, we become these little girls and little boys who are looking for the authority.
Daddy, daddy, mommy, proxy, right? Please, please, please tell me that I did good. I'm, I'm the person was like, I'm your boss. I'm, that's not my job. And I think it's, it's just making fun of yourself sometimes is just what you need. It's like, oh, here I am again asking for validation. I am 30, 40, 50, 60. Sometimes we do it way farther than that.
Way beyond that, and I'm still looking for somebody else to approve what I do. That.
[00:42:41] Andrea: I love that. I love it. Good. Fuck that. But sometimes it's, sometimes there's almost nothing to backfill. And so you're afraid if you don't get that validation, like you, you're not given it yourself if you're, if you're kind of raised on looking for that validation.
[00:42:58] Mayda: Absolutely. It is a drug as well as you said, it's an addiction, it's a drug, and in that case I would say find it somewhere else. Some people are not good. Some people have kids, some people have pets, some people have hobbies. Find something you're good at that makes you proud. That is the best form of validation.
So it's not necessarily finding somebody to tell you that, but sometimes you know, you feel down and you, you would like people to tell you how extra new you are and it was a bad day at work and everybody is pounding at you when you feel really. Down. You go home, what's going to happen? The spouse is there.
Guess who is going to get all, all your, your frustration. The spouse. So this is where the shift
happens. It's like, okay I had a bad day And I need a hug today, or I need some love, or I just need someone to listen to me, or I need some safe space to be able to, to vent a bit. Or, you know what? I had a bad day, but I love playing music or I love listening to music, and this is. My act of self-love. So we go from looking for validation on the outside to taking yourself in your own arms and saying, I'm a pretty decent human.
This is, this is success for me today. Self-love is a lot of that as well.
[00:44:24] Andrea: Yeah, I totally agree because sometimes when we're in that cycle of looking for that validation, and you know, like you said, I think it's actually very true, we almost kind of manipulate for it. Like, what am I going to say to get that feedback and what am I going to do to make them say, you know, X, Y, Z?
When we get validation that way, a lot of times the reason why we want more and more and more is because we're not, ironically, we're not really accepting it. We're not really taking it in. And feeling it. And so to do that switch, like you mentioned, where you put yourself in that role of almost, of almost opening yourself up and saying things like, Hey, I had a bad day.
I need a hug. Or I had a bad day. I need this. It's a way to open yourself up to receive what it is that you need, but then it's much more of a self-love than any kind of external thing, because that's the rub, right? External validation will never make you feel. Amazing. It'll give you like a couple seconds of like, yes, but then that is ultimately not really what your, what your soul is looking for.
[00:45:28] Mayda: Exactly. I don't think you can lie to yourself, and when you manipulate to get affection, you know that, you know that. Let's be honest, and this is why it will never be satisfying, because you people please, you said the right words, you, whatever it is that you did to get that. But when you are genuine, and some people use the word vulnerable or I'm going to say like when you're truthful, when it's like, you know what, I, I really had a bad day today.
I really don't want to hear anything just. I want just peace today. And all of a sudden you're genuine. You're yourself, you're human as well. You drop that mask of the high achiever who's always there and you know, grinding and fighting and hustling and wanting to be the top dog, whatever. And this mask drops.
And all of a sudden there's a human who has their ups, their downs, who wants love, who is afraid, who doesn't want to be rejected, but overall is living the life that they have right now. And once you get to that place, and again, it's not a place that you can maintain, you know, in the workplace because there is a workplace mask that we wear as well.
But sometimes, you know, you go home and you drop that mask and all of a sudden it's. Okay. Oof. I can ease into what's going on right now. It's, it's transient. It's a transient state. It's not going to stay forever. I don't want it to stay forever. I'm not going to, to dwell in it. It's just happening.
Tomorrow I will be a different day, and tomorrow maybe I will do things differently, but right now I'm going to go and book myself a massage because, I'm going to give myself every word that I didn't get elsewhere, but hey, who cares? I'm fine with
[00:47:17] Andrea: that. Yeah, I mean it's the best reward of ever or ever that I think is the ones that we give ourselves instead of the ones that we wait for other people to give us or look for other people to make us feel.
It's because like we said, you're not necessarily going to feel that same warm hug then when you're giving yourself that love and, and sometimes that's a big shift. I know when I was first looking into things, it was. A huge shift for me to go from what I thought I needed, which was approval from other people to saying, screw that, and just approving of myself.
That took some work. But once you shift into that space and know what that feels like, it's a game changer I think.
[00:48:00] Mayda: Yes, because you start working for yourself. Mm-hmm. You don't work for your boss. You don't work to disappoint or to please whatever. You work for yourself. You work for your vision. You work for your future.
You work to feel happy, whatever that means inside, like to feel achieved or serene inside, and all of a sudden, Whatever is happening on the outside, although it's going to impact you and affect you, but it's not to the point where it's crushing your soul anymore. This is what agency is, and sovereignty is.
It's a long road. I mean, I'm, I'm so far away and I'm sure a lot of people as well. It's, it's, say lifelong acquisition in a way, but once we get to. Yes. Okay. There are things happening on the outside. Yes, not everything is perfect, but I feel I am living in my truth, and once you get to that point,
you're good.
[00:48:57] Andrea: That's the ultimate, I think, end to all of our heroes journey is just getting to the point where we are living in our truth. We're comfortable living in our truth and doing anything else is like nails on a chalkboard.
[00:49:14] Mayda: Yes, it's exactly that is I am who I am. I am open. I don't know what I don't know. I am still learning and growing, and I'm okay and I'm decent, and I have the right to live, and I have the right to be who I want to be.
[00:49:31] Andrea: Oh, I love it. Mayda I could talk to you for another five hours. You have shared so much just wisdom and goodness. I know people are loving this. I know people are going to have questions for me, for sure to ask you. Um, but I will have a link in the episode notes on how to get ahold of you, but just quickly tell people how they can find you.
[00:49:55] Mayda: Mostly on social media, LinkedIn and Instagram, Mayda Poc, and then on my website, maydapoccoaching.com. And you can email me at Mayda at Mayda Poc Coaching dot com as well.
[00:50:09] Andrea: Fantastic. Thank you so much.
[00:50:11] Mayda: Thank you. Thank you for having me. And thank you also for being a soul doula here, because your questions, your kindness, your open mindness as well has
brought me as well to a new stage in my life today. So thank you for making a difference in my life today as well.
[00:50:27] Andrea: Oh, thank you so much. If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five star rating and review. Follow us on Apple Podcast, Amazon music, or wherever you're listening right now to see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode.
Visit Andrea Hanson coaching.com. Thank you for joining me and until next time, take care.

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Ingrid Palmer

I was so excited when I heard this week's guest accepted my invitation to be on the podcast. She's an award-winning speaker and storyteller. Her personal story is full of highs and lows and valuable insights on both that I feel like everyone needs to hear. In her words, she says that she's had to overcome adversity directly linked to the intersection of race.
Gender ability, socioeconomic status and perceived orientation. Her story does include sexual abuse living in the child welfare system. And a physical attack from a stranger. But she is a survivor in every sense of the word. Not dwelling on these stories, but growing from them and earning the title of her powerful award-winning speech. Verago a female warrior.
Please enjoy this week's episode and visit Andrea Hanson coaching.com for more on Ingrid Palmer. Resources we talk about in the show and transcripts from today's episode. And you can find those links and more in this episode description.
[00:01:08] Andrea: Welcome to the Live Your Life, not Your Diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea hanson, author, motivational speaker and master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told I would never reach my goals, but I did and I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view, and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds to inspire you to achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw, uncensored, and judgment free listener discretion is advised.
Hello, I'm here with Ingrid Palmer. She is an award-winning speaker, a diversity and inclusion consultant, and the founder and c e o of Focus On Ability, a campaign designed to encourage individuals to triumph over adversity, combat discrimination, and promote universal belonging. As a partially sighted sexual abuse survivor and former foster kid, Ingrid uses storytelling to highlight traditionally unheard perspectives of social and systemic inequity within intersectional lens.
Her stories bring the interests of voices pushed to the margins, back to the forefront, and build community and connection between diverse groups. Thank you so much for joining me, Ingrid.
[00:02:41] Ingrid: Such a pleasure to be here.
[00:02:43] Andrea: I am so excited to talk with you. I have been all over your website and looking at all of your speeches that you have online, and you are a fantastic storyteller.
I don't have to tell you because you're award-winning, but Oh my goodness.
[00:02:59] Ingrid: Thank you. You know, telling stories and reading stories has been like a lifelong. Passion of mine. I was a really avid reader as a kid. Like the teachers at school would call home and ask my mom to stop me from reading. Like that's how bad it was.
[00:03:15] Andrea: Oh my gosh. Stop you from reading.
[00:03:17] Ingrid: Yeah, because I would always have a book hidden and be doing that instead of whatever work I was supposed to be doing.
[00:03:24] Andrea: Oh my God. I mean, I'd see no problem with that, but
[00:03:29] Ingrid: yeah, when I tell people that, they're like, wow, that's such an odd request from a school. Stop your child from reading.
I was like, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:38] Andrea: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I remember my school had to like bribe us to read like, you'll get a, you'll get a sticker.
[00:03:46] Ingrid: Yeah. It was the total opposite with me. People were always trying to dig my nose out a book,
[00:03:51] Andrea: oh my gosh. Well, I am so excited. To talk to you about your story because it is so layered.
There's so many aspects to it, but I would say that the overarching theme of your story is resilience. As you say, you've been fighting systems and barriers your entire life, and it started when you were very, very young.
[00:04:16] Ingrid: Yeah. So as a child, I had no idea that my vision was different from everyone else's.
So I would constantly get asked, like, can you see? And I'd be like, yeah, because I could see, I just had no idea that I saw differently. And so I, I would. Walk into things a lot, really, rather large things and obvious things. And even when people would open the door for me to go through, like I'd walk into the door that they opened instead of going the doorway, or I'd walk into the wall when I had to come indoors from outdoors.
I could momentarily be, it wasn't like my vision went dark, but something happened to it and I wouldn't be able to see for a bit. And then dim lighting, like if you went into like the shade or something, that would be difficult for me. And you know, I'd be bumping my head. And finally in grade three, my grade three teacher really insisted that to my mom.
He was like, no, something's going on here. And she was like, no. She says, she could see, and all the other teachers said the same thing, but she says she could see. And he was the only one who was like, no, I don't care what she says. Something is off here. And so I did get glasses, but all the behavior continued and then it was like, oh fine.
You definitely are just seeking attention. You're just trying to be a clown and. Either that, or you just have your head up in the clouds all the time, pay attention to where you're going and what you're doing. And I kept trying to insist that it, it wasn't that at all. I and I, I couldn't explain it, but not being believed was really, really hard.
And then not having an explanation was even harder because I couldn't, I couldn't adequately defend myself. Cause I really literally had no explanation or answer as to why these things would happen. And. People would complain to my mom that I saw your daughter on the street, and she looked at me and didn't say hello.
And I'd be like, but I never saw them. And they'd be like, you looked right at me. What do you mean you didn't see me? So it was all those things. And I didn't get diagnosed until I was 14, so it was quite a long time that I had to kind of figure out my own way around these things because I literally was not believed for 14 years.
[00:06:32] Andrea: That's amazing. Especially as a kid, it's like you don't know what other people see. Right? A lot of times when people are born with disabilities, it's like you don't know that other people's minds aren't working this way, or other people's ears aren't like this or eyes aren't like this. You have no idea.
[00:06:47] Ingrid: That's it. Exactly. And so it would always amaze me that other people could navigate the landscape so smoothly and so well, I didn't, I was like, how? How are they doing this? And I remember sometimes I would like squeeze my eyes because I thought if I could just exercise these muscles, you know, maybe they're weaker or there's a so switch I need to turn on somewhere or something.
And because I just thought I wasn't using my eyes right. I didn't think that anything was wrong with my eyes. I literally thought. It's you. You're just not seeing, right. Like you're not doing seeing. Right.
[00:07:19] Andrea: Well, and when everybody else is telling you this, except for that one teacher, why wouldn't you believe them?
[00:07:24] Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. And so I did have some adverse childhood experiences. I did experience childhood sexual abuse, which. Knowing the stats that we know now is not too surprising because many people with disabilities unfortunately, are also, you know, become victims of violence in a lot of ways, including sexual violence, physical violence.
And so I ended up in foster care when I was 13 years old, and the same attitudes followed me, oh, you're just pretending from foster home to foster home, and even my social worker. But eventually they took me to a specialist, and that was when I finally got that diagnosis.
[00:08:02] Andrea: I was watching you talk about a mindset that you had adapted of no excuses, no choices, and how that came from actually not having a diagnosis for so long.
[00:08:16] Ingrid: Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Because I didn't have any allowances made for me as a kid, right? I wasn't believed that I needed anything. Everything was considered to be behavioral. There wasn't any consideration that there could be a disability or something else causing this. It was me. It was me choosing to behave in certain ways.
And so, because I wasn't given any allowances, Or modifications on expectations like doing chores or going on errands or getting my schoolwork done. I had to find my own workarounds. I had to because the expectation was there, and then also because there were consequences for not getting it done. So I learned that mistakes I had to learn from them.
I had to figure out. So, you know, after getting in trouble for something, my mind would just be like, what went wrong? Did you reach too far? Okay, you bumped into something, so there's something on the left, so next time you gotta stick more to the right or, you know what I mean? Whatever it was, I'd have to analyze that and figure out what I was going to do next time.
Cause it was always going to be a next time. Mm-hmm. Cause the same expectation was there and you'd have to do it again. And you better not make that same mistake, right? And so I learned to figure things out because there wasn't any choice and there was always going to be a consequence. So there wasn't any choice but to figure things out and to try things.
And slowly you'd get better at certain things, but there was always another challenge. There was always something else. So it was just this constant having to learn to adapt. And one of the things I figured out was completely accidentally was that when I followed other people, It was easier for me to navigate the landscape because I would just look at what they did and then when I got to that spot, I'd do it too.
So if they went down that I knew, oh, there's a step or a ledge or something there, I've got to go down. At that point, if they turned a corner, and for some people this sounds ludicrous because you can see a step, but I, I couldn't tell. I didn't get it set yet. Yeah. But I couldn't tell that there were steps cause I didn't have depth perception.
So following behind other people and. Imitating their movements helped me. And so my attitude growing up was always, you gotta figure it out. Even through tears of frustration, of sadness, of feeling desolate, my mind would be like, what are you going to do differently next time? How are you going to figure this out?
And so for me, yeah, most of my life, there was no choice. You always had to figure things out and there was no asking for help. I wasn't allowed to ask for help, so that wasn't an option either. So being self-reliant was something that was just kind of built into me, not happily, but it was because I just didn't have those options available and my only option was to think of something new to try because I didn't want to have to feel endure.
The negative consequences of failure.
[00:11:13] Andrea: So you, in response to being in a system that was failing you, you created your own system?
[00:11:22] Ingrid: Yes. Absolutely. And, and that's what we all do. Yeah, we all do that. Cause you have a, a disability, like there's no perfect system out. They've never heard of one anywhere worldwide.
They all suck. They're all not built with us in mind. And it's something that we have to do in every aspect of our lives. Be creative. Figure things out or let it go. That's another thing that we've learned to do. Like if we can't do it certain times, we just have to say, forget it. It's not going to work. And either do something else or do without.
Or some other thing. So when the pandemic came along, I remember telling, you know, and people were calling me certain experts in fields, and I was saying, well, we're probably the best equipped for this time because not much has changed for us. This is what we live like daily. It's new for you and for all of you, welcome to our world.
We've been doing this forever and doing this all the time, having to pivot on a dime, not knowing what's going to come up next. So you know, when some aspect of our disability is going to flare up and just throw us a curve ball. Like we, we just don't know. Like we're living in this unsure reality all the time.
Yeah,
[00:12:34] Andrea: no, I mean, that's a really good point. That's a really good point. It's one thing that. Having a chronic illness, having a disability really helps us to have, is being able to think quickly, being able to be creative with our solutions. Like you said, pivot on a dime and create a new system that works for us.
Mm-hmm. It's something that, that unfortunately is kind of baked in, but I think it's, it's definitely a strength for us to have.
[00:13:01] Ingrid: It is. And even that letting go because sometimes we have no choice but just say, shit, this is not going to happen today. You know? And it's don't want it, but we've to know we're either going to.
Exhaust ourself with no point, or we can just call it and try again tomorrow maybe, or something. Mm-hmm. Right. So,
[00:13:21] Andrea: yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's really interesting and, and as I'm reading your story and seeing your story, I feel like this really played a role, especially since. You had mentioned at the time of getting your diagnosis for it was retinitis pigmentosa.
Is that right? Yes. Yes. What you were living with, you also entered the child foster system, and it sounds like you had to create your own system within that as well, because yet again, you were faced with unjust labels and a system that was not working for you.
[00:13:54] Ingrid: Yeah, absolutely. So I, you know, I had to create the system before I got into that, even at home, because it wasn't believed.
And then even within that system, there was no support. So when I went to SickKids Hospital to receive the diagnosis, I was sent alone. I was 14 years old. The foster parents refused to go. My social worker said he's too busy. So here I am at the hospital. The doctor is aghast. Because he knows what he's about to tell me.
I don't know. I'm just like, Hey, I'm here for my appointment. So he made me wait an extra hour and a half till the social worker from the hospital could sit with me. And then he explained to me that you have this rare disorder. And I was like, yeah. And I was like, I knew it. I knew I wasn't crazy. Like I actually felt happy because it took this blame that I.
You didn't belong to me off of me for real. And I just felt like I can't wait to shove this in everyone's faces who were always calling me names, saying I'm a liar. You know that I just want attention. And then, you know, he explained to me that I had tunnel vision. And so that was why I bumped into things and tripped over things.
Cause I literally didn't see them. When I said I didn't see it, I wasn't lying, I didn't. And he explained to me that my pupils don't dilate and constrict the same way in varying light like most pupils do. So when you go into dim lighting your, your eyes eventually adjust. Mine don't. Or they, you know, and so I'm not pretending when I'm in lighting or I move from shade to sunlight or at nighttime, I literally.
Could not see. And people always say, I can't see either. And I'm like, well you are not being able to see, you still navigate my not being able to see I'm standing still cause I can't go anywhere. So it's not the same. Yeah. And then he also explained to me that I lack, because of the severity of. The tunnel vision that it affected my depth perception.
So I couldn't see levels, everything. My world is extremely flat and that's why I'd walk into doors and not through the doorway, because I literally couldn't tell where the opening was. And I mean, I was a really young child then. So of course as I grew, your knowledge grows about your landscape and things. So I started to learn that.
No. There's an opening there, even if it doesn't look like it to me. You know what I mean? And I would learn that things on a table weren't embedded in the table. They literally were on top. But this is something that I had to teach myself mentally, because the way I saw it wasn't that way. A pen on a table looked like a design within the table.
So when I was sent to go get objects off tables, and I'd say I couldn't see it, and they'd say, but you're looking right at it. You liar. I was, but for me, it was literally in the table. It looked to me like some type of abstract design in the table. People sitting on couches. I didn't always recognize them as people because they were literally, In the couch, it looked like maybe layers of fabric that somebody had maybe thrown their laundry.
And then when they would move, I would freak because it would seem as if they were coming out of the furniture. Then people would get mad at me for being frightened at them and they would be thinking like I was insulting them, like, you know what I mean? Like they were, oh my God. But it wasn't that. It was literally that.
My reality was just so different from everyone else's, and I couldn't explain that. And people walking around, you would just pop into existence. I didn't see you coming. You'd just be there. And so I would be like this all the time. So, you know, people labeled me as weird and just dumb and crazy and I couldn't this, I didn't have the words at that time for what?
I was literally seeing and experiencing and not even understanding that this doesn't happen to everybody. Yeah. So it was just such a, a really difficult period. And then you're growing, you're a kid, you know, or you're going through adolescence and you have all those quote unquote normal stressors. And then on top of this, this rare disease that of course, presents in these weird ways.
So it was, it was definitely, growing up was definitely really tough emotionally for me on so many levels. Uh, being in care, surviving sexual violence, being in foster care, dealing with ableism, dealing with racism. Like it was, it was a lot and it was so layered and intertwined. And. It really affected me socially cause I just never knew what I was going to come up against and it was all so negative.
To this day, I don't know if I'm introverted because I am or because of what I experienced growing up. Right, right,
[00:18:19] Andrea: right. Yeah. I heard something that you said, which is the intersection of racism and ableism is a high collision zone.
[00:18:29] Ingrid: Wow. Absolutely is because you just get a double whammy like I did experience a a lot of racism growing up.
But it was also even within my community, because within my community and within a lot of communities like society in general, disability is you're looked on as less than, you're less valuable as a person. Nobody wants to be your friend. You're easy to throw off and dismiss and. No one's going to correct you because the adults are doing it themselves, you know, so they're certainly not going to correct the kids from doing it.
Or if they do, it's not really enforced. It's just like, oh, you shouldn't say that. But you know, it's not that big a deal. You know what I mean? And then if you're among persons with disabilities, Then you can feel racism there too. So the white kids with disabilities are going to get picked first or get the first things at something.
Like you're made to feel less than in certain ways, even if it's not verbalized. Like there's just certain actions that happen that tell you that you're still less than. So it, it kind of doesn't matter where you are, you're being subjected to some type of discrimination and it's really, really hard to always feel at the bottom of the barrel in every community or group.
There's something about you that's wrong. You know, if you're with the boys, you're a girl, you suck. You know, if you're, you know, with the disability community, it could be. Because of your race. If you're in your own community, well you're disabled, you know? And then the foster being in foster care on top of it, oh no, she's a foster kid, must be bad, must have done something wrong.
Why wouldn't her parent family want her? That was always the first thing people thought. They never imagined that you had suffered something wrong. It was that you must be a bad kid. Why doesn't your family want you? So it was always some reason to be excluded and to be stigmatized really hard.
[00:20:18] Andrea: Yeah, that must have been really, really hard.
I saw something that you did while you were in foster care, I thought was so, so smart. It's that you saw that the group home you were in was getting a new employee and you said like, oh, this is my chance. To me, it's like the perfect strategy of like, let's sit down with her and maybe help to get some of these labels off of you.
Explain yourself and kind of help her, help you with what you knew that you needed.
[00:20:48] Ingrid: You know, I told you that I've always been this incredibly voracious reader. Like I was seriously addicted to reading. And I really credit that with just gaining knowledge, right? Because you just learn everything in books.
Mm-hmm. And so when I was in grade eight and in foster care, I was actually assessed and assessed to be at a college level. So I was a little smart cookie, but I was always being downgraded because I had a disability, right? So always undervalued and stuff. So, That's my only explanation of how I came up with this, because I have no idea.
But yes, there was a new staff coming and I lived in this group home and the staff were always trying to figure out what to do with anger. They considered me to be a little smart ass, you know, always had something to say cause I was always pushing back. Because the things that adults would tell kids, I'd be like, you know, that's dumb.
Yes and no. And I'd say, you know, I'd call them on it. And they didn't like that because most of the kids would be quiet. You know what I mean? Or they'd take it because, but I, I, you know, I would always have something to say and, and I'd challenged them. And so they always had these meetings about what to do with Ingrid.
And when new staff came on or volunteers or students, they would always counsel them that what they had to do was to be hard, that everybody had to do it as a group, right? Nobody be kind and soft, angered, no. What she needs is tough love, tough punishment, no allowances, blah, blah, blah, which never worked.
And so this new staff was starting and the staff who was on duty that day was running late and she said she had to run in the shower. And she said to me, Ingrid, will you answer the door and let her in? And I said, sure. She came and I let her in and I, and I made her tea and we sat in the office and I don't know, it just came to me that, oh my God, I have a golden opportunity here.
She hasn't been tainted yet. They haven't had the opportunity to tell her what to do, but I can. Because I used to try to tell the staff, you know, if you want me to comply, I could actually tell you how to do it. And they would just dismiss me and say I was being impertinent and insolent. So I said to her, I said, you know what?
You're going to hear so much stuff about me and they're all bad and they're true, but you and I could have a different relationship that maybe I won't swear and curse at you all the time and act up and refuse to do what you tell me to do. If you just do these things. I said one when I'm really upset, I just need some space.
I might walk off a bit, but I swear I'm not going to take off. I'm visually impaired, like I'm not running anywhere. Seriously. I could just, I'm just going to move off a bit and I need time to calm down and then you can come and talk to me. If you want me to do something, don't use the words, have to or must, or anything like that.
When I hear those words, I'm not doing it. Mm-hmm. I'm seriously not doing it. But if you just asked me to do it nicely, I will. But people were always ordering me to do things, and I felt like compliance was what got me molested, right? Mm-hmm. So I had determined that I would no longer just simply be compliant.
So that was really why I rebelled, and I was trying to explain that to them, but they wouldn't listen. So I told this new staff that, and I had no idea she was going to actually listen to me or she was just going to blow me off like everybody else did. But she did. She actually really, and I don't know why, but she, she really took into account what I said, and I'm positive that she was given the same rundown of what to do with Ingrid.
But she chose to give my solutions a try and they work. And because she actually did that, I trusted her and because I trusted her, I allowed her to help me. And sometimes service providers get surprised when I said I allowed. I said, yes. Guess what? Somebody who needs your help doesn't have to actually let you help them.
We can resist, we can refuse. And we do. You know, so when you build trust, and because she did that, I listened to advice she gave me, and I learned how to advocate differently. Because of her, I learned that I didn't have to yell and scream and cuss all the time. And use dirty words through stuff because that's how I, I just wanted to defend myself.
But she was able to show me that I could stand up for myself without using that language and still be strong and still take care of myself. And so that was where I started to develop the ability to advocate for my myself, where I actually got what I wanted. Because before that all, I never got what I wanted.
All I got was grounded in trouble, consequence, suspended from school. But after that, I started seeing, oh my God, I got what I wanted and I didn't get in trouble, and I stood up for myself. So it was my language, it was my approach. But before I couldn't hear that because I wasn't being respected or valued.
And a lot of times, Adults think, well, I don't have to respect a kid. The kid always has to respect me first. Mm-hmm. And you know, and that's not true. And especially when you're coming from trauma, it's really important to build that relationship before you decide that you're going to save somebody. Cause somebody has to let you save them.
Yeah. You know? So, yeah, that was a really pivotal time in my life. And she was a special person, Lynn Levine. Yeah.
[00:25:52] Andrea: I think you're right. I think you have to let people help you. You can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.
[00:25:58] Ingrid: Yep. Yeah. And you have to build that relationship. You have to build some type of connection first.
But sometimes people just expect, you need my help, I can do it. You should just let this happen. And it's like, no, no. Yeah. You know, because people use our needs against us as well, and that's what sometimes people don't understand. Like people take advantage of our vulnerability. There's a lot of predators out there.
And even if you're not a predator, a lot of people have this attitude that we should just be grateful for any scrap they throw our way because we need it. And so we're made to feel less than because we need help. And so it's really important your approach and building that relationship and that trust with somebody that you actually genuinely want to help.
[00:26:44] Andrea: And I think it goes double, triple for when you want to help a child.
[00:26:48] Ingrid: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:26:51] Andrea: So is this where in creating these systems for yourself and seeing that they work and trying them in different areas, is this where you developed a passion of like, Hey, I want to do this or for the rest of my life, like, is this what you went to school for when you went to college?
[00:27:07] Ingrid: I did not. And the funny thing was like in the group home I would. Help other kids a lot and try to build up their resilience and teach them about what their rights were and what you didn't have to. The staff would get so upset with me because I would undermine them, because I would empower the kids.
But when I went to school, I think I, I did so much of that in my youth and needed that so much that even though people were like, oh, you should get into social work, and I was like, hell no. I want to get away from this. I do not want to do any type of social work, any type of thing like this, which is so funny because it's exactly what I'm doing.
But I resisted that for so long because, I just wanted a totally different life than what I'd been experiencing. If you can understand that. Like I, I wanted something that was totally different and exotic. I wanted to travel, I wanted to work for the United Nations. I studied four languages in school, like, so I didn't want to work with anything.
Sad, you know, but I was destined for this life and my passion is completely in it. And even though I tried to get away from it, like nothing in my education, I took travel and tourism, hospitality. I studied French, Italian, Spanish, and German. You know, like there was nothing in my studies. I didn't take social work.
Not one, not one, not one at all. But all my work experience has to do with working with people finally enough, and so I was destined for this life anyways. Yeah.
[00:28:42] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, even when you're looking at it from the hospitality and multiple languages, it still has that common theme of service and inclusion.
[00:28:51] Ingrid: Yes. Yes, yes, and, and, and funny, when I graduated from university and I faced that wall of ableism and was un unable to become employed, nobody would, would touch me at all. They just only saw liability risk, and were really concerned about me getting injured on the job and suing them. That was it, and it didn't matter.
My academic achievements like. The able attitudes, uh, my achievements could not overcome that in any sense of the word. And so I was unemployed for like 10, well actually for 20 years, but 10, 12 years into it. Then I was able, because of this amazing principal to start volunteering and in the school system, cause I'd always wanted to be a part of school council.
But whenever any other principal had ask me and I would say, you know, it's really hard for me to get to the school at night because it's dark. Cause I still had usable vision, but my children were young. My husband didn't have set hours, so I couldn't count on him to be home, to be able to take me. And I, I couldn't expect my children to lead me in the dark.
That was very uncomfortable. So I'd always say, I can't come to school counsel. And most the principals just like, oh, I'm sorry. That's so sad. And you know, that was it. So when this new principal asked, I just expected the same, oh, that's so sad. And they'd move on. But instead she was like, oh, I'll give you taxi chips then so that you can take a cab back and forth.
And I swear, I literally said to her, what did you just say? I was shocked. Literally because nobody had ever, ever suggested helping me at all. And I'd always wondered, I always thought like, why can't, maybe they facilitate another parent, you know? Because I couldn't ask. I just couldn't have it in me to ask somebody else to do that for me.
But I thought a principal could facilitate that. But nobody ever tried to make a bridge for me. But this principal did. And because of that, I actually ended up being nominated to be school council chair. I made this really impassioned speech, how it had always been my dream and the days of watching Harper Valley PTA as a kid.
And so, I don't know, they guess they felt. They're like, wow, she really wants this. So they nominated me and then when I got it, I was like, holy shit, how am I going to do this? Like, you can't even see, well, you know, but I ended up having this really small team, two or three parents who were like, oh my God, I love them to this.
They, they helped me. Whatever I envisioned, they helped me make it real, you know what I mean? And I did face a blows, but I had other parents who were laughing at posters I put up cause they were crooked, you know, and these little insignificant stupid things that they would mock and make fun of me of.
But I kept going. I made sure that every kid in a congregated classroom, all the kids with disabilities participated in everything I did for that two years. And the teachers and everybody said it was the first time it ever happened. I made sure that they were involved in everything Play day. I would get messages from the teachers, how, you know, parents were crying because it was the first time that certain things had happened and it just felt great and it lit this fire.
I felt so good. I was doing things, I was participating in serving others in the community and just doing things that were outside of me. And once I, that fire was lit, I couldn't stop. And I just kept volunteering in more and more and more and more stuff, and I was always dreaming of employment, but I always knew that even if I never got a paid job, that I would never stop serving because I, I realized that I needed it.
It wasn't just about being needed. I needed it. I needed to be doing stuff and to be a part of things that weren't just about me and not just about my family, but were about the larger community and society. So yeah, I'm deeply, deeply passionate about it.
[00:32:37] Andrea: Yeah. And to that point, something that I think a lot of us can have a problem with, and it's something that you have come to, I think through a very transformative moment, come to that realization of, I can't care what society thinks of me.
I do give a damn, but I can't give a damn about what they think of me. How is it, cause I know there's a lot of people listening. How is it that. You came to that and what are some steps that other people can take?
[00:33:09] Ingrid: Another component of my experience that we're just going to get into now is that when I was 16, I was further diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome, which is a, a condition that has to do with hormonal imbalance, right?
So the estrogen, the progesterone, and, and every woman, we have a little bit of test testosterone. That's what gives us our libido, right? But for me, the testosterone was too high, it overpowered. Both the estrogen and the progesterone. So I didn't menstruate and I also, you know, as a side effect, developed a condition called hersitism which is excessive hair growth on a woman.
And so I, I did start to grow a beard. I, I can grow a beard. I do, I, I shave, I choose to shave it. And then at that time I was, I was still young when this started, right? And I didn't know how to shave. I was in a group home. I didn't, you didn't have family and that care to help you figure things out. So any man listening will know the horror of this.
I used the same razor for like three or four days. I shaved in every single direction. Like, oh my God, my face was so inflamed. I had razor bumps, ingrown hairs. This really incredibly. Dark five o'clock shadow. Cause I just have that skin. You know how, just like you know men, some men have a shadow, some don't.
Mm-hmm. Right? And so I was a person who had a shadow and because of the poor technique of shaving, it was even more intensified. Like you could tell that I grew a beard even though I shaved it, right? And so because I was perceived now as being trans, I just added to the layers of oppression and stigma that I faced and.
The homophobia was like unreal. It was so incredibly violent. We're talking about late eighties, nineties especially. Those were really, really hard years. Going outside at all was just hell for me. So when I got dressed every day and put my clothes on, I actually also had to prepare myself mentally. I had to put this kind of armor over myself because I never knew what I was going to face.
People would call me names, they would jer at me, they would spit at me. I was surrounded by men on many occasions, threatening to beat me up. People wouldn't sit beside me. People would refuse me service or just fling things at me because they don't have to be nice about it, right? Cause of what they thought of me.
So this just added to the level of, of stuff that I faced and I was actually physically assaulted in a very public place in the daytime. And this person decided that he was going to grab me by my private area, very brutally. And he twisted and he squeezed. Like it was really harsh. And I know he thought he was going to be grabbing balls and penis, right?
And we, and I know that if this happened to a guy, he wouldn't have recovered as quickly as I did. I did go to the ground like it, it was bad. It hurt a lot, and I was in a lot of pain. But I also know that a man would've still been on the ground. I got up swearing. I was really embarrassed. Nobody came to my aid.
They all just stared at me blankly, like, who cares? You deserve it. You know what I mean? And it was a very pivotal moment for me. And I tell this in the speech that I have like online, I'll be honest. Like it happened instantly in that moment. Now I had like five minutes to give this speech, so I had to cut out a lot of stuff.
Sure. And
[00:36:24] Andrea: there will be, honestly, there will be a link to the speech so people can
[00:36:27] Ingrid: go and, yeah. I'll be totally honest that it did not happen exactly in that moment like that. It took time. Yeah. But it was a moment that caused me to reflect and to say that because I wa I was desperate for social approval.
I've been ex experience so much exclusion all the time. I wasn't invited anywhere. I didn't have a lot of friends. I just lived vicariously through books and media on what it was like to have friends and you know, and hang out and go here and there and have people care about you and have this group that you could count on.
I didn't have that, and so a part of me to get through my life, I had to suppress my emotions and be this wall and just press through everything, you know? And especially because I had a child.. But there was this other part of me that was so desperate for inclusion, so desperate to just be accepted. And that day after that, that just really showed me that girl.
You gotta stop looking outside for this love that you want. And it didn't just come from like having the beard, it came from everything. The sexual abuse, the being in the foster care, having the disability, and being excluded. It came from so many areas, but I learned that I had to learn to love myself. I had never loved myself.
I tried to protect myself, but it wasn't from love. It was kind of to not continue to be hurt. And so I, I knew that I had to, I had to love me. I had to set the standard for how I was going to be treated and stop waiting for somebody else to love me and for somebody else to like set these things in place. I realized that it had to come from me.
And that I had to refuse to accept treatment that I didn't deserve and stop putting up with things and silence and just to do things a different way. Cause I was battling, I would yell and scream at people, but I, I really learned that it had to come from a different way and a place of love. And that my inclusion actually began with myself.
That when I was willing to accept myself, how I was and everything that made me, me, which included being a woman who had a beard. That included that part too.. That, you know, I was going to find my tribe that I was going to find those people that loved me when I loved me, and that's what came about. And so I would really impress that to everyone else.
And trust me, I'm not saying this from a place of, oh, it's so easy. I know it can be very and incredibly difficult and incredibly lonely, but what I have learned. Is that when we love ourselves first and set that standard that we magnetize towards us other people who will too and when we don't, and it's not hidden because it's deep inside us, like we're sending that energy out as well.
And I really believe that we attract what we're putting out as well so I'm telling you, love yourself. Give the finger to the world. And be you authentically 100%. And you will find those people who love you as you are. And those are the people that you want. And you'll accept them too. because when we accept ourselves, we accept other people, right?
Because I used to reject people who wanted to be friends with me. Why? Because I was judging them like how I was being judged. Cause I wanted to be part with the cool kids. You know what I mean? Was the dream. But no, like when you start love and accepting yourself, you'll also love and accept others.
[00:39:54] Andrea: Love yourself and give the finger to the world. I think that's amazing words to live by, and I think you're right. It's not super easy. It's not that any of us are saying that it's a super easy thing to do, but sometimes it can be so necess and, and I think it's necessary, but it can also be done with love.
If possible, you can lovingly give the finger to the world and say, screw you. I don't need to take into account what you think of me, because it all starts with my own l self-love, my own inclusion and my own belonging.
[00:40:29] Ingrid: Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, you can say F you with a smile.
[00:40:34] Andrea: Yeah, I mean, that's how you should say it.
I feel like that gives it the most oomph is when you say it with a smile. So something you say is that it's necessary for people to be intentional to make the changes that they want to see instead of looking for those changes to just happen on their own. What do you mean by that? Yeah, how can you be intentional?
[00:41:01] Ingrid: By really thinking beyond the surface level of things. I find that a lot of people mix up kindness with inclusion. Like they think just because you're kind to someone that that's inclusion and that's the end of it. And I'm like, no, that's the beginning and I don't want to stop anyone from being kind. I love it when people, I'm on my own and people help me.
They open the door. They'll help me get to a table. They'll help me get food, you know, if I'm at an event. But I've been to places where people do that, and then all the conversation swirls around me. It's like they're done now. They're nice and it's like it's gotta go beyond that. How about ensuring that someone's part of the conversation?
In my case, that would include maybe describing what's going on or what I could be those visual cues that are important that I could be missing. If someone's showing pictures around or something on their phone. What is it? Somebody did something that made everybody laugh or that was quirky? What did they do?
Asking me a, a question pointedly to bring me into the conversation. There are ways that you can ensure inclusion and kindness is a part of it, but it doesn't just end there. And I find too many people end at the kindness part and we've got to go a bit deeper than saying hi and. Hey, come and sit with us.
But then you don't do anything. You know, you've brought the person to the table, but you haven't brought them in to the relationship with everyone else there. And that takes incredible intention. It takes you paying attention to what you can do, how you can help to bring them in, like little efforts you can do.
To just clear that way for somebody and for everyone, it'll look a bit differently depending on what your needs, right? Like mine can be really particular around things that you see because there's so many visual cues that are important to communication that I miss and that affect how I interpret what's going on.
I've been on the completely wrong track because I've missed something visually, right? So that's where the intention comes in and, and also just looking for how you build capacity. And people too, especially in the workplace. I find that people with disabilities are sometimes regulated to certain jobs because people are looking at their disability and not looking at what their capacity is.
And that takes intention and it takes intention to ensure that things are accessible and places are accessible, and that when you're having a get together, a gathering where you're going out, can everybody come? Can everybody enjoy themselves in that environment? And I mean, we can't cater to everybody all the time, but are you ensuring that people are included A lot of the times?
I don't want to just say some of the times cause that could equal only once or twice, but can you do your best majority of the time? I mean, we should do our best all the time. You know what I mean? Like we're not perfect beings and everything is not perfect and none of us are going to be necessarily included in everything a hundred percent of the time, but it should be.
Very close to the top right? Mm-hmm. And we should do our best to aim, at least be aiming for that and not like it's not happening because we're not even really trying that hard. So we've got to have that intention there, and that takes conscious thinking. Planning consideration, asking questions, learning from what went wrong or what you forgot last time.
because like I said, we're not perfect. We don't get it all right all the time, and we drop balls and that's okay. But how can you ensure next time that they're not? Could it be getting more help, having more eyes on something, asking more questions? Mm-hmm. That's where the intention comes in. It's really important that it be there.
But it's also, on the other hand, important because intention is a word that we use a lot, and too many words become buzzwords. But when people talk about, but that's not what I intended. Well, hmm. Results are more important than intention in that case. Yeah. You know, like how, what was the impact? What was the outcome?
And like, it's great that you intended to do A, B, C, but if what ended up happening. Was the total opposite, then you have to own that as well, right? And that, that, I don't want people to be afraid of trying something because you'll make mistakes. It's not that we won't make mistakes or drop balls, it's how are we going to go forward afterwards?
Are you just going to be like, oh, well, or are you going to say, Hm, how are we going to ensure that this doesn't happen again?
[00:45:24] Andrea: Yeah, and I'm always a big fan, obviously, of asking questions and don't be afraid to communicate with people and ask questions. How can I help you? How can I make this best for you? So you feel included and you feel yes, like you're yes, among the conversation and the crowd and whatever's going on.
[00:45:45] Ingrid: But also to be aware, because sometimes people don't know. Mm-hmm. Sometimes we can ask a person what, sometimes people ask me, well, what will you need? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, we'll figure it out as we go along because I can't necessarily think of something. So to be aware too, like you are absolutely right that you need to ask questions and give that opportunity.
But to be okay if, if you don't get all the answers, because I don't like it when people don't want to do anything because they don't have it all perfect or they feel like they don't have all the answers because then we get stuck never doing anything and that drives me crazy. Do something and learn from the fallout.
And I'm not saying be careless with that. Like I'm not saying, you know, cause that'll come back on me again, I'm not saying be careless, but I am saying that we have to try things and learn it, and we also have to give people that space and that love to be able to make mistakes too, right? Mm-hmm. We don't have to.
Jump on everybody for everything that doesn't go right, and the way that my accessibility wasn't a hundred percent met. If that's on a continuous basis, I can understand that. But when we're trying to improve, we're not going to get it right all the time either. It's important to give the feedback on what was missed, but also to give the allowance to improve and to try again.
To try again. Yeah. I
[00:47:00] Andrea: love that the allowance to improve and to me this just sounds like a beautiful, you know, I mean I think connection with another human is one of our basic needs, right? As humans, I think it's a really beautiful thing. And this sounds like a great chance to connect with somebody because you're not saying, solve this for me so I can make sure everything's correct.
You're saying, Hey, Let's do this together. Let's do a trial and error. Let's give feedback. Let's both be okay with maybe having it not work out so much, and let's communicate and talk about how mm-hmm. How we can improve next time. It's, it's just such a beautiful way to connect with somebody.
[00:47:37] Ingrid: Yeah. And if it can't be me, if I don't have the energy or capacity, involve other people from the community.
Do your research. There's so much available now. Look it up. Read, have discussions. Say, Hey, I researched this and it says this and this. Do you agree with this? Like, do you think that this will work? But don't put that load on the community for sure, for sure. But it, it, we have to work together still.
[00:48:05] Andrea: I think it's a really good reminder and I think it's giving people permission, I think, which can take a weight off. Just in general, giving people permission of saying like, Hey, you can look at your resources. You can try things. You can figure things out on your own. You can communicate. It's an open dialogue.
Mm-hmm.
[00:48:22] Ingrid: Absolutely. It's got be, it's got to be ongoing, it's got to be fluid. Things change. So we've always got to be willing, and actually we should be intentional about revisiting. Is this still working? How is it working? What could be changed? Tweaked. We've got to check in on the pulse of things because things change and what was working before can not be working so good anymore because of certain other conditions.
So,
[00:48:51] Andrea: Yeah, and like we talked about before, it's you can't be afraid to pivot. You can't be afraid to think on your feet. You can't be afraid to be creative in your solutions or finding your solutions. Yeah. I think it's an interesting thing of this is how people with disabilities have grown up in navigating this world and hey, you know what?
When you're including people with disabilities, you can adapt those same things.
[00:49:14] Ingrid: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:49:16] Andrea: Well, Ingrid, I could talk to you for hours. I think this is amazing, but I don't want to monopolize your entire night as much as I want to. This has been fantastic. I'm going to have links to everything people can link to your website where that amazing award-winning speech is that we talked about earlier.
And if people want to connect with you or find you, how can they
[00:49:39] Ingrid: do it? Absolutely by that same website, which you're going to provide the link to, I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn under Ingrid Palmer, so you can definitely reach out that way. Fantastic.
[00:49:50] Andrea: Thank you so much for coming on and speaking to all of us.
[00:49:55] Ingrid: Thank you for having me. It's been a great, great conversation. Delightful to talk to you.
[00:50:00] Andrea: If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five star rating and review. Follow us on Apple Podcast, Amazon music, or wherever you're listening right now to see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode.
Visit Andrea Hanson coaching.com. Thank you for joining me and until next time, take care.

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Andrea W. Hanson

[00:00:00] Andrea: Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker. And master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told. I would never reach my goals. But I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people, living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds. To you inspire you To achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw. Uncensored and judgment free. Listener discretion is advised
Hey there. It's Andrea. Thank you so much for joining me. . Today, I am bringing something that I actually wrote a while ago. Do you ever do that? Do you ever like write something make a video or whatever, and go back and look at it years later and be like,
You know what I was such a genius back then.
Like, oh my gosh. The wisdom.
Seriously though. I, uh, looked back at this. This is actually one of my most popular blog posts. Like it's been, it's been shared, it's been viewed, uh, thousands and thousands of times it's still actually. One of my top hits on my website. So I thought I would bring it to the podcast because.
I'm not saying that I was genius. But. It is really good advice at the time that I wrote it. I was working as a coach. Mostly with people who had MS. People who are newly diagnosed. With MS. With multiple sclerosis, which is what I have. I've since started working with people who have other chronic illnesses, besides MS. Some of them don't have chronic illnesses at all, but this was written when I was all about helping people with MS. People, newly diagnosed with MS.
The title is five things. I wish I knew when I was diagnosed with MS. And I remember writing this. And thinking. It was, it was like one of the unpopular opinions. At the time, you know, we ha we see those all the time now on social media unpopular opinion. Uh, that's kind of what this was. I was saying some things here that I was actually nervous to say.
But I'm really glad that I wrote it because like I said, it, it still stands true and it stands true. Not just for MS. This can really go for any, any chronic illness. So. I'm just going to go through and read the five things that I wish I knew. So number one,
Let's just get to it. What people say will happen with your MS. May never happen. Now MS is unpredictable. Most illnesses are unpredictable and yes, there are norMS. There are common things that happened. But it doesn't mean that it's going to happen. With you. It doesn't mean anything. Besides, maybe it's something that can happen.
Maybe not. And what I really had issue with is when I was first diagnosed, people were telling me. What was going to happen definitively? You are going to. Lose the ability to walk. You are going to not be able to work. You are. Going to not be able to drive. I mean, all of these things when I was first diagnosed, this is going to happen. And what I found over the years is.
Almost none of it had happened. And I started to realize that what people were telling me were going to happen. Was there story about me, their story about me being MS. Not me being Andrea.
With MS. And there's a difference. And when you see the difference between yourself and your diagnosis, and the fact that diagnosis . Looks different with different people. Once you start seeing that separation, you realize that what people say are going to happen. May never happen.
So why entertain that? If it's not happening now. Y entertain the fact that it's ever going to happen because it might not. And that feeds into number two. Which is what you expect to happen. Matters. Your expectations. Matter. Your expectations can change the outcome. Your expectations can change your reality. It could change.
What actually happens. And it's really, really important. To be aware of what you are expecting. And that sounds silly, but sometimes. In the back of our head, we're expecting something bad to happen. And that plays with number one, because if someone tells us something is going to happen, We can subtly believe them.
And be thinking in the back of our head, like I expect this to happen. And it's, it's a defense mechanism. because then if it does happen, it's like, oh, okay. I was prepared for that. See, I was correct. But what you expect is really, important. You just have to look at the placebo effect. People take a sugar pill. They take something that is not a drug, but they think it is. They expect it to work. And that efficacy rate of the placebo is 30, sometimes 60%. It matters.
So be very deliberate with what it is that you're expecting. And start to notice. Am I expecting something that somebody else told me was going to happen? Or am I expecting something that I believe is going to happen?

Number three. You can make your MRIs way more comfortable. Now, I know MRIs is something specific that people with MS. Take quite a bit. I've had dozens. I can't even tell you how many MRIs I've had, but this can go for a lot of different tests. And I think this just is in the. Advocate for yourself category.
But with an MRI specifically. You have a choice and I know you go in there and the hospital wants you to first and foremost. Put on a gown. And I don't know about you. I hate hospital gowns. I hate wearing them. It just transports me into a really icky place. I don't like them. And. If you are careful.
About what you're wearing. If you wear clothes that have no chance of having any kind of metal in them wear cotton. Don't wear anything that has any kind of, labels or something on the front. Where things that don't have any, zippers. Nothing that has metal.
. . A lot of the newer fabrics, a lot of the spandex fabrics are made with different types of metals. So don't wear your Lulu lemon. Don't wear your. Super new underwear or whatever it is, where total boring cotton, old school stuff. If you do that. You can wear your own clothes
And you're going to be fine. And if that is something that makes you more comfortable, especially when sometimes these MRIs are an hour long or more. It's worth the fight. Just come prepared.
There's also other things that you can do. And these are a lot easier, but sometimes not everybody knows about them. I like to have a washcloth and put it on my face. And a lot of times they will have stuff there. They will have towels there that you can put on your face.
I like to just put, a little washcloth or a little towel over my eyes, it helps me keep my eyes closed. I also always ask for music. And I make sure like they put it on before I get in there because it's happened where I asked them for music and I tell them to do something, just chill because a lot of times.
Now they have a lot of streaming services. And so I'm like just pick a chill. She'll station. Sometimes that backfires and you're in the MRI and it's like some crazy nonsense type of music. So you can make sure you know, what the channel is ahead of time, but ask for music or. Ask for silence. I mean, it's not going to be that silent and an MRI, but it might be in other places.
So make sure you know, what's good or what you like, what's going to make you the most comfortable. And finally something that I do. I asked for countdowns for me, I'm not going to, I'm not going to fall asleep in an MRI. There's some people who do. Uh, or other other tests. I don't. And I like to have that communication. I like to know like, Hey, this one is going to be two minutes. There's going to be three more, uh, at 30 seconds, this is going to be a five minute. I like hearing that. So I make sure to communicate with them.
And to know that this is how much time you have. I don't like going in there and not having it. Like, I don't like it to be a time warp. Like I don't want this to be a casino where I have no idea. How much longer I have. That's something for me. Something for you might be that you want no communication. And so you might ask them to just not talk to you because maybe you are someone who falls asleep.
At the end of the day. It's true for MRIs. I'm sure it's true for other tests as well. You can absolutely make your experience a lot more comfortable. You have options. Just ask for them. Don't be afraid to ask. Don't be afraid to advocate for yourself and come prepared. Number four. Drug companies.
Really do want to help. Now I know big pharma. Yada, yada, it's but here's the thing. Copay assistant prograMS. Exist. Unfortunately, they're not for everybody. You have to, uh, qualify. But you're probably more eligible for them than you think you are. So don't be afraid to give them a call. Don't be afraid if you are venturing in and taking a drug, which is totally fine. I have no judgment on if you take drugs or don't take drugs for your, for your diagnosis, but drugs exist. Drugs can help.
They have copays asist. Don't be afraid to give him a call. Let them know what's going on and if they can give you a co-pay assistance, take it. I used to think like, well, I I'm not hurting. Technically I can maybe pay for this or I have good insurance. I shouldn't take it away from people who need it. Okay. That is nonsense. The drug companies have more than enough.
They are willing to help you. Some of these drugs are insane how expensive they are. So. Don't be hesitant. To accept their help. I know it's the scary, evil empire. I get it. But. If they are willing to help you, if they are willing to give you whatever money you need, however much it is. Towards a treatment that works for you and a treatment that you want to take. Then take advantage. Take advantage of that while you can.
There is no shame in that.

Number five. You are strong enough. I wish I knew this when I was first diagnosed because although I was very outspoken. I was loud. I was probably quite obnoxious. When I was, when I was first diagnosed, now I'm sweet as pie. But I wish I knew. Deep deep, deep down that I was strong enough. Because I didn't.
I was scared. I didn't know if I was strong enough. I didn't know. If this thing was going to completely overtake me or not. I had no idea. And so I wish I had that deep, deep, deep down belief that I was strong enough to do it. Because I was and I still am.
And here's the other thing I realized is for me, with my MS. I didn't need it to be a fight. Because fighting. MS. Means you're fighting your body. And I know different illnesses have a different origin. They have a different way of behaving. This may not be true for you. It may be true for you. I know for MS. For auto-immune disorders. It's your body.
He has a. A different understanding of what it should be fighting. And so it is attacking our own systeMS, right? The central nervous system or our organs or our skin. Right. It's, it's attacking different things, but the thing is. If you look at it as a fight. Against MS. You're fighting against your own body.
And you're an, in a fight every single day. For the rest of your life. And that is exhausting. It is just exhausting. So I wish I knew that I was strong enough. Two. Get through this strong enough to look this in the eyes strong enough to live well. Without it being this exhausting, stressful fight all the time.
Now, these were the five things that I wish I knew. When I was first diagnosed these can apply to a lot of different diagnoses. Number one, what people say will happen with your MS. May never happen. Number two, what you expect to happen matters. Number three, you can make your MRIs way more comfortable.
Number four drug companies. Really do want to help. And again, a caveat. Doesn't matter what their motivation is. Right.
It does not matter. Take the cash. Number five is you are strong enough. And of course I love. That I did this so long ago. I love it. When you see things that you just, you believe so deeply in your core, that you just have never wavered. This is something that I wrote years and years and years ago.
In this blog, I said, bonus, staying positive. Doesn't mean unicorns and daisies all the time. And if you've been listening to this podcast or have worked with me or know anything about me, you know, this is 100%. What I believe is it does not mean. Daisies and unicorns.
For me when I realized that being positive meant. Feeling negative emotion. Being positive meant really allowing yourself to have doubts. To have quote, negative thoughts. Right. It allows you to really understand everything that's going on in your head. That is what positivity is not unicorns and daisies all the time.
When I realized that it was huge. It was huge. And I really wish I knew that when I was diagnosed, it took me some time to figure it out. But. It was a huge aha for me when I did.
Now look, I'm not mad that I didn't know these things when I was diagnosed. I didn't know any of them. I do wish somebody had told me.
my hope is that I have helped. Somebody, maybe somebody who was just diagnosed is listening. Uh, maybe these are things that can help you, even if you've been living with a diagnosis for years and years or decades. I love this list. This list is super true to me. It has really rung true for a lot of people. Really glad that I can bring it to you on the podcast.
I want to know from you. What would you add to this list? What was something that you wish you knew? When you were diagnosed. What is it? That has been a huge aha to you that you found out. Along the way. That you would love somebody else to know. Let me know. You can always get ahold of me on my website, Andrea Hanson, coaching.com.
That's H a N S O N.
You can always get in touch with me on Instagram. I am at Andrea W. Hanson again, H a N S O N. Or you can connect with me through the link in this episode description. Thank you so much for being here. I hope something in this list. I gave you an aha gave you a light bulb moment or has helped you maybe.
Maybe approach things a little bit differently.
And until next time, I hope you have a fantastic week. Take care. If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five-star rating and review. Follow us on apple podcast, Amazon music or wherever you're listening right now. To see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode
visit AndreaHansonCoaching.com. Thank you for joining me And until next time take care