For a book proposal, an author must find and analyze “comps,” short for “comparable” or “competitive” books in the same category or genre as theirs.

My clients who are writing nonfiction start researching comps and often email me, despondent. “My book was written by someone else, Ann!”

These gifted writers with meaningful messages feel crushed. Defeated. They’re ready to let that creative spark fizzle out.

“Why bother writing my book when someone else already wrote everything I want to say?”

It’s a legitimate question.

The World Is Wide Enough

There’s a line in Hamilton when Aaron Burr realizes far too late that the world was wide enough for both Alexander Hamilton and Burr. He thought it was a zero-sum game; that if Hamilton won, Burr lost. But that’s not how it works in politics nor in writing.

The world is wide enough for those books and yours…for those authors and you.

In fact, the existence of successful, published nonfiction books like your idea serves as evidence that readers want more. After all, if a reader is itching to solve a problem or to get an answer to their question, they rarely stop at one “take” on a topic—your book can provide a different slant, tone, narrative, claim, or promise that helps them even more.

As for how a decision-maker like an agent or Acquisitions Editor (AE) might view your proposal…one book selling well creates space in the market for more like it. If one publisher has released a breakout book, other publishers will want in that action and look for a similar-but-different book they can release.

Find your angle and your project may be the exact thing they’re looking to acquire.

Similar, but Different

You can go to a librarian or independent bookseller with the title of a book you loved and they can help you find another book that shares similarities. You see it online, too. Add a book to your cart and notice the feature labeled something like “Customers also bought or read this.” There you’ll discover similar-but-different recommendations to add to your night stand.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have a librarian recommend your book to a patron who just finished that comp title…the one that freaked you out when you first stumbled on it? When you figure out how your book could add something a little different from that comp, they might become shelf buddies, each one helping to sell the other.

For that to happen one day in the future, you need to figure out what to do right now, while you’re defining your book’s big idea and developing your book’s content.

Find Your Positioning

Study how the author of a comp developed their premise and delivered on their promise. Then determine how your book will be distinct from theirs.

You might…

• present a surprising claim that flips a reader’s assumptions
• fill a gap the other author left unaddressed
• provide a memorable framework that leads to a clear outcome
• bring a level of authority due to your training and expertise
• establish a level of trust from vulnerably sharing your personal story and struggle.

Figure out how your book will be mostly similar to your comps, so your book will feel familiar to the reader. Then decide how yours will be different enough that they think, “I haven’t seen an author write about it that way before.”

Align with Your Comps

Instead of shrinking back when you see comps, despondent and discouraged, let them guide you. Even more, why not lean into them?

Write about those books on your website and the search engines and AI tools will start to see your online presence is similar to the authors of those books.

Do the same on social media, spotlighting the book. This could bring you new followers who love that book and want to learn more about you.

Lead a book club featuring that book and discover how readers respond to the material—you might spot opportunities to address something readers wish had been covered in the comp.

Comps Are Your Friends

As I mentioned earlier, I’ve seen this section of the book proposal labeled a few different ways. “Comps” can stand for “comparable books” (books that have similarities), “competitive books” (books fighting for the same readers), or “complementary books” (books that enhance each other).

I hope you see how your book will complement others, not compete. Your book can be friends with other books, not enemies. The world is wide enough to contain all the books on a topic, so write yours and add to the chorus of authors committed to helping readers.

It Could Be Your Voice, Your Movement

Next time you see a book that looks like the one you want to write, remember these two other important principles.

First, it might seem like your message has already been said—after all, there’s nothing new under the sun—but it may not have been said yet to this generation. It could be your stories and your voice that will connect with those readers.

Second, when you see an idea pop up here and there in the form of a book or article or viral video, it could be the sign of a cultural shift. In fact, it could indicate a movement is stirring—and you could be part of it!

Your message as part of a movement? How cool is that!

Now is not the time to give up on your book. It’s time to nurture that spark and speak to the moment.

In a year or less, your proposal will be ready…and you’ll be ready.

LEARN MORE

Recently I got together with a group of writers for a co-writing session. Before settling in to focus on our works-in-progress, we started with a prompt to spark creativity. I set a timer for 10 minutes, and we wrote. When the timer beeped, we un-muted and either summarized what we wrote or read it aloud.

The Dear Favorite Author Prompt

This was our prompt: Think of a favorite author, living or dead. Got that person in mind? Write the author a letter letting them know why their work mattered to you:

Dear _______,

Set a timer for 10 minutes and write the letter quickly, like we did. I’ll wait…

.

.

.

…did you write it? I hope you’re able to before reading on, but I know you might not have time to tackle it on the spot.

Writing to Your Favorite Author Reveals Your Creative Values

Here’s what happened to us: When each of us went around and shared what we wrote, we realized our letters unearthed specific reasons our favorite authors impacted us. 

One writer noted how her favorite author handled character description. Each person in the novel seemed real to her due to precise details. She admired it and wanted to create memorable characters in her projects, too, so her readers could remember and enjoy them.

Another person in our group said, “This exercise helped me to reconsider Austin Kleon, an author I hadn’t thought about in a while. His style was freeing to me; it wasn’t only his words but how he used his art—drawing—to convey his message. I was reminded all over again to let myself be myself.”

When you write your letter, you’ll discover your creative values—modeled and inspired by your favorite author’s work. You may find yourself admiring their willingness to tackle tough topics and themes or their techniques that produce a melodic, mellifluous style.

Write that letter from the heart to get to the heart of your own writing.

Dear Madeleine

In case you’re curious, here’s what I wrote in response to the prompt that day (edited ever-so-slightly to avoid distracting you):

Dear Madeleine,

You dropped into my life when, as a kid, I checked out of the library A Wrinkle in Time. Even though I didn’t understand it all, I understood it all…the power of love and the danger of separating the mind from the heart. I didn’t get the worm holes, or quantum physics, or the theory of relativity, or whatever else you cleverly packed into the novel. I just knew Meg fought to get her dad back and was driven by love and that tie, that heart-centered theme, was right and good. It was weird, too, and that spoke to my weird-kid personality.

You dropped into my life again more than a decade after, when I was a young adult navigating life with young kids and a passion for writing. I stumbled on Walking on Water, which sang to my spirit. I longed to merge faith and writing in a way that wasn’t faith-y and honored my commitment to literary quality and tone, and you showed me how; you mentored me on those pages.

Then, at the library, I discovered the The Crosswicks Journals (God bless the library). I blew through all three in the series once, then twice, poring over them, eventually finding used copies to own and mark up. They felt conversational and messy and real and gave me a window into the life of a mom-writer, which is what I was trying to be, or to become. You almost persuaded me to move my aging parents home in their later years. For reasons I won’t elaborate on, I did not go that path, but The Summer of the Great-Grandmother was quite persuasive. 

I dropped into your life when I showed up at a talk you gave at Earlham College. I don’t remember the connection you had to the place. Did you attend Earlham? It’s such a tiny liberal arts college in a tiny Indiana town, but you came to give a talk, so a friend and I grabbed our Madeleine L’Engle books (I snatched Walking on Water from my shelf), jumped in a car, and drove to Earlham to hear you speak. You sat on a stool for the talk, because you had a leg injury. You sat again for the long line of fans with arms full of your books they hoped you would sign. Your assistant kept things moving, having us open the book to the frontispiece where you signed one book after another with a big black marker.

I held up the line for a few beats when I asked you, right then, how you did it. How did you write as a parent of young children? You had the marker in hand, scribbled your message and signature onto… [Just at that moment the timer went off, so I couldn’t finish it, though I did write about my encounter with her years ago!]

Send or Publish Your Letter to Your Favorite Author

Have you written your letter?

If your favorite author is still alive, finish the letter, look up their address, and send your letter to them.

If your favorite author is dead, share your finished letter as a post on your blog, Substack, or Instagram. You might help your followers or readers discover a new book or a new author who will impact them, as well. And it’s a formal, public way to document—one might even say to honor—the author-mentors who helped shape the authors we’ve become.

Resources:

• 20 Generous (and Easy!) Ways to Encourage a Writer Today
• How to Write in the Midst of Motherhood (my interaction with authors Madeleine L’Engle & Holly Miller)

52 Creative Writing Prompts:
A Year of Weekly Prompts and Exercises to Boost Your Creativity

Get your copy today!

The other day I was sitting on the patio watching a squirrel spring from one branch to another with a twig in its mouth. It paused to strip the twig of buds or other bits and nubs, then scrambled to a crook in a tree where three fat branches converged.

The squirrel seemed to measure the twig and the spot, set the twig in place, and scrambled off to break off another, longer twig. After eyeballing it for length, the squirrel snapped it in two with its mouth. I admired the critter’s planning and productivity—all while performing acrobatic leaps and adorable scampering—as it constructed a base for a nest.

Yesterday, though, I stepped out to check on progress. No nest. The squirrel seemed to have abandoned that location. I could still see those initial twigs sticking out, but no further developments.

Are Abandoned Writing Projects a Sign of Creative Weakness?

Writers I work with—and if I’m honest, I myself—launch multiple projects, enthusiastic about every idea. We open a document, give it a working title, tap out a few paragraphs with loads of energy. Like the squirrel, we scamper around the Internet or library doing research, gathering quotes and anecdotes to incorporate into this shiny new work-in-progress.

A few days or weeks later, we abandon it, our sentences as sparse as the squirrel’s twigs up in that tree. The raw materials of a project—research, paragraphs, quotations—sit on our hard drive. Will we return to it and continue building or abandon it for projects with more potential?

Often we do abandon the project and scamper off to start another one.

Weeks or months later, we might open our Finder window or Google Drive and scroll through our archives, astonished to see so much unfinished business: half-drafted projects, a concept of a book, or the start of a post. We can feel like we’ve wasted our time and resources.

Are we quitters? Are we creatively weak? Are we people who love to start things but get bogged down in the messy middle, throwing in the towel when we can’t find our way through?

Our inability to finish can leave us feeling embarrassed, ashamed, or frustrated.

But that’s unhelpful self-talk. Instead, reframe it.

Abandoned Projects Reflect Your Inquisitive Mind

Consider this: abandoned writing projects reflect your curious personality, your inquisitive mind, your commitment to lifelong learning. Writers are explorers, teachers, researchers.

Sometimes our ideas turn out to be bigger than we thought when we first started out with a compelling question and we can’t finish a piece in a couple of sittings. It expands, so we set it aside. Is that distraction? Maybe. But it’s a legitimate reason to press pause.

We’re not quitting; we’re simply waiting until we can give it our full attention and figure out how to piece it together, researching even more, expanding, reorganizing, trimming. Don’t see it as weakness to set aside a piece; see it as a gift to your future self.

What appears abandoned is just in-progress. When we have a lot of in-progress pieces, we’re creatively strong, not weak.

Distractibility, Fear, or Incubation?

Some might suggest abandoned projects are a sign of ADHD, and they might be right. It’s possible some writers start loads of projects and because of their distractibility, ADHD or otherwise, they leave them half done. You can explore that theory with a therapist, but even if that is an official diagnosis and explanation, I still don’t think it’s a sign of weakness or anything to be frustrated with.

And might be resisting the work due to fear, confusion, or overwhelm and that’s another thing you might want to talk through with a therapist. But you’re often creating, even when it appears you’ve abandoned the work, letting it incubate.

I’m known to let a project sit on my hard drive or the cloud as it forms and gathers steam in my head. I might not yet be sure what direction or stance to take with it when I begin, so I set it aside and return to it when my thoughts are clearer and my opinion begins to form.

Your Future Body of Work May Begin as an Abandoned Project

“Abandoned” projects could become your next published piece, expanding your body of work. Any one of those seemingly neglected projects holds potential.

They aren’t like precarious twigs at risk of blowing away in the wind; no, they’re tucked away and waiting for you if and when you need them.

Two years ago I needed a dress for a wedding and started to shop for something new. I tried on dress after dress and nothing worked. I was almost in tears because we were getting close to the big day and I still hadn’t found anything.

One afternoon, I moved things around in my closet. Hey, what’s this? I pulled out a lovely little dress I’d picked up at Goodwill and forgot all about—it was perfect for the wedding and was just waiting for the right time and purpose.

That “abandoned” idea or draft you find in your files is kind of like that sweater you forgot about in the bottom drawer or that skirt you hung in the very back of the closet, behind the dry-cleaned wool coat still covered in plastic: “Hey, what’s this? A fully outlined blog post just when I have a deadline!”

Projects in Your Writing Pipeline

Years ago I set up a folder system in Google Drive I called my Writing Pipeline. I could move my projects through the pipeline based on their status:

1. Idea
2. Research
3. Draft
4. Final Edits
5. Shipped/Submitted/Scheduled
6. Live/Archive

A project could be in any one of those folders based on its status.

I’ve recreated the system as a Notion database making it easy to skim and search. Those half-finished projects are showing up under “Idea,” “Research,” or “Draft” and those are not abandoned for good. I have not wasted my time and resources. In fact, those are a gift for the days when I don’t know what to write next—the dress for the wedding, as it were.

The Idea folder is a place to drop any new thought you have. Anything that has creative potential. Pay attention. Write things down. Add them to the folder. Storing ideas in that digital folder isn’t abandoning them. Not at all. It’s the opposite: you’re preserving them until the time is right.

And your Idea folder can extend beyond the digital list and notes you’ve taken. You might have a supplemental overflow into analog storage like a journal, notebook, or box. Twyla Tharp describes the literal box, a cardboard banker’s box, she uses to collect ideas for a dance. From The Creative Habit, she says:

I start every dance with a box. I write the project name on the box, and as the piece progresses I fill it up with every item that went into the making of the dance. This means notebooks, news clippings, CDs, videotapes of me working alone in my studio, videos of the dancers rehearsing, books and photographs and pieces of art that may have inspired me. [Tharp, Twyla. The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life…A Practical Guide, Kindle ed., Simon & Schuster Paperbacks, p. 80 of 248.]

One of my clients loves having a box and a physical notebook to store ideas in addition to her digital drafts and notes. While I don’t want her—or you—to get too scattered, feel free to include a physical, analog location to gather and store ideas in a state of development.

At some point, open the box or the file or the folder or the journal and look inside. You might realize you have everything you need for your next project.

Never Start from Scratch

Having loads of ideas in these containers means we never start from scratch. We don’t lose potential ideas that hit us. Continually drop ideas in those storage places, when you’re ready to write something new, simply open them and skim.

Last fall the squirrels dug holes throughout a large mulched area around a tree in our back yard and buried at least a dozen nuts. Now it’s spring and I’m finding walnut shells scattered around because the squirrels are racing around the yard, digging in the mulch to unearth the nuts they “abandoned” last fall.

They didn’t abandon them. They squirreled them away to enjoy today.

We can dig around in our files, to see what kind of nutty goodness we squirreled away in the past. What fun to find an older, half-written draft ready to be rejuvenated and revised! Add new insights and research—that idea or draft might be even more relevant and useful a year or two after we originally conceived of the idea.

“Abandoned” Files Won’t Write Themselves

But the files won’t write themselves.

About her idea boxes, Tharp continues, “The box is not a substitute for creating. The box doesn’t compose or write a poem or create a dance step. The box is the raw index or your preparation. It is the repository of your creative potential, but it is not that potential realized.” [Ibid, 88]

The box is the pile of sticks collected in the crook of the tree. We go back to see if these sticks will fit and form the foundation of something that will hold together.

The box is the half-written paragraphs, bullet points, book excerpts, quotations, and analogies that we’ve dropped into some space, whether coherently or jumbled together, digital or analog. We look to see if we have the right sticks and enough of them to build the nest. We sort through what we have to see what we can create.

And then we do the work: we compose the essay, blog post, or article. We write the poem. We finish the newsletter to send out.

Reuse or Recycle

Some projects you’ve seemingly abandoned may not work on their own but contain useful components you can repurpose.

Feel free to pluck from existing projects and integrate the raw materials into another one. Grab the story, the quote, the statistic. Add it to another work in progress to illustrate a claim. Reuse and recycle the good stuff you’ve collected over the years.

Not Everything Needs to Be Completed

After all this, I will say that not all of those ideas and drafts will become part of your body of work. That’s okay. Half-written projects don’t have to be written.

Some will truly be abandoned because they didn’t interest you after all or became irrelevant or obsolete. You are not obligated to write every idea that comes to you.

But don’t sit on all the ideas that come to you, either. If you left a project half done because you were scared or overwhelmed, open it and reconsider. Do you need to journal about it before digging in? Do you need to talk it through with a friend or therapist?

After you work through the reasons you might have abandoned an important piece, find a way to return to it…and finish it. Resist the urge to leave undone the stories that need to be told.

No matter what you’re working on, you don’t have to write it alone. A writing buddy, writing group, or writing coach could provide you with support to see it through to The End.

There’s nothing creatively weak about sitting on a dozen, a hundred, or even more ideas.

Open the folder of your so-called “abandoned” projects today and flip through what you have. The one with potential will catch your eye. Trust the spark when you sense it. That’s the one.

Don’t overthink it. Climb back up into the crook of the tree and drop in another twig, arranging them into a completed project. It might take time, but stick with it (yeah, pun intended). You’ll get it done.

Resources:

• Make the Most of Your Time with a Writing Pipeline
• Write to Discover the Courage You Need to Confront Your Fears
• Writing Fears and How to Overcome Them: Feeling Not Good Enough
• Never, Never, Never Sit on a Story

You want to write your truth (without AI)

Find your spark and hone your voice with guidance from a human writing coach

You’re ready to tell your story and write with confidence (without sounding like you’ve copied output from an AI chatbot)? Work with Ann Kroeker as your writing coach to sharpen your writing skills, gain confidence, and get the human input you’re looking for. Your spark is real. Let’s fan it into finished projects ready to publish.

CLICK to learn more!

Nathaniel Hawthorne starts The Scarlet Letter with a new surveyor scrounging around in the attic of an old custom-house.

This surveyor uncovers a piece of cloth and a manuscript, and the rest of the book tells the narrative contained in the manuscript.

That story within the story is one most high school students read in American Lit, about Hester Prynne, who had to walk around with the public shame of the scarlet letter “A” sewn to her clothes due to her sin…while the person equally involved in the sin wasn’t named or shamed (but, as it turns out, was tormented by his role in the whole thing, but I won’t name him in case you haven’t yet read the book or watched the film).

What’s the technique?

The technique Hawthorne uses when he sets up the main story is called the “frame narrative.” The main story, then, becomes “the story within the story.”

The frame narrative sets up the “main” narrative.

The frame provides context and lends plausibility to the story within the story.

The nested story likely has a completely different narrator from the frame’s narrator (and the frame might also offer insight into that nested-story’s narrator).

The frame creates distance and reduces criticism of the first storyteller who sets things up. If you dislike or don’t agree with the story told, well, don’t blame the messenger. The main narrator is simply telling someone else’s the story (”Hey, this is what I heard a guy say”).

The frame narrative in action

Many well known literary pieces that use framing, including:

• The Princess Bride
• One Thousand and One Nights
• “Ozymandias”

They all use frames that set up the story or stories:

• A grandpa reads a story to his grandson, and we are swept into the rollicking story of Buttercup and Westley.
• By telling a series of cliff-hangers, Scheherazade tries to survive marriage to a king who kills his brides; we enjoy the stories she tells, as does the king depicted in the frame narrative.
• An unknown speaker shares the story told by a traveller about a broken statue discovered in the desert—it depicts a ruler who thought his works would inspire awe and fear forever but whose works and likeness now lie broken in the desert, decayed and forgotten.

A closer look at the frame narrative

Let’s look more closely at that last one, “Ozymandias.” The brevity of this short poem by Percy Byssche Shelley allows us to easily study the narrative frame.

Enjoy this rendition, recited by Bryan Cranston of Breaking Bad.

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!’
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

Four speakers

This poem crams into the few lines of “Ozymandias” four different speakers:

• Speaker 1: “I” (the first speaker of the poem, who creates the story’s frame of meeting a traveller and hearing about the ruined statue)
• Speaker 2: The “traveller from an antique land” (who tells the story within the story; in the version I included here, the traveller’s story is contained within quotation marks)
• Speaker 3: The “sculptor” (this speaker does not technically “speak,” though their artistic details, such as the demanding leader’s sneer, convey messages to the viewer)
• Speaker 4: Ozymandias (the leader himself—captured in a once-towering stone statue, discovered by the traveller where it lay shattered, decaying, and forgotten in a lonely stretch of desert—speaks via the words etched onto the pedestal; he thought his kingdom would last and impress mighty leaders for years to come, but there’s nothing left to see but a “colossal Wreck”)

In terms of a frame narrative technique, this short poem behaves more like a set of Russian nesting dolls, offering a new speaker every few lines, creating more and more distance, in keeping with one of its themes: the distance between this king of an “ancient” land, “Ozymandias,” and the impact he thought would last forever.

But the king and his kingdom are long forgotten in the present day of the initial speaker (“I”).

The traveller’s report

During his reign, that statue of a feared leader chiseled from stone—sneering, frowning, and mocking—must have left his subjects staring at it in awe.

Surely, they must have assumed, he is too mighty to question.

Surely, they must have thought, his works will last forever.

He might have been too mighty to question at the time, but they were wrong to assume his works would last forever. In this poem, the traveller reports complete ruin:

“Nothing beside remains.”

The traveller—narrator of the story within the story (instead of the main speaker, Speaker 1)—gets the last word, bearing witness to what they saw…or, rather, what they didn’t see: no mighty works to be found.

Nothing at all remained to cause a person to despair.

Let someone else say the bold thing

The frame narrative’s speaker says the bold thing by letting someone else say the bold thing. In this case, the frame narrator delegates to the traveller the task of testifying to the decay of the great and mighty leader’s reign, and to the lone and level sands that stretch far away.

The frame narrative can work with fiction, with nonfiction, and, as we saw, with poetry.

Try the frame narrative yourself to add distance from topics that matter to you. It’s a way of telling it slant. Invent one or both narrators, and create the story that sets up the nested story.

You can say the bold thing by letting someone else say the bold thing.

Let me know how it goes.

You want to write your truth (without AI)

Find your spark and hone your voice with guidance from a human writing coach

You’re ready to tell your story and write with confidence (without sounding like you’ve copied output from an AI chatbot)? Work with Ann Kroeker as your writing coach to sharpen your writing skills, gain confidence, and get the human input you’re looking for. Your spark is real. Let’s fan it into finished projects ready to publish.

CLICK to learn more!

We all have “pet” words or phrases that slide into our prose like a favorite shoe that’s shaped to our foot and supports our gait—literary techniques that feel like our voice on the page.

Some writers come across more casual, using sentence fragments or words like “ain’t” and “c’mon!” Others turn to ellipses for hesitation and pop a statement (or question) in parentheses for humor.

Guess who’s been paying attention to how we express ourselves?

Yeah, LLMs slurped up our online writing and got a taste for the way we write. Their favorite words and phrases draw from our favorite words and phrases, and now they’re repeating them ad nauseam, shoving them into everyone’s drafts so people leaning on AI for their writing start to sound suspiciously similar.

What’s especially frustrating is that these are perfectly good writing techniques, and now that I see them spilling into my inbox, I hesitate using them.

In the hands of skilled writers, a light touch with these could produce a pleasant flow, but AI doesn’t yet seem to fully sense the need for restraint, balance, and pacing. It stuffs otherwise effective wording into their drafts like too many prizes in a box of Cracker Jack. They stop being special after the fifth appearance.

Once I point them out, you’ll start to spot them in blog posts, articles, newsletters, and social media. Here’s a small sampling:

1. It’s not X. It’s Y.

You’ll see variations of this contrast construction everywhere. Sometimes they’ll change up the punctuation, but it’s the same effect:

• You don’t need more ideas. You need movement.
• It’s not about having more time; it’s about using the time you have more efficiently.
• They didn’t abandon what already works. They built on it.
• You don’t need more examples. You need to watch for this technique and enjoy a chuckle. (That’s my addition; the others were from actual newsletters.)

2. Quietly (Quiet and quieter, too)

This word is such a favorite with AI, the minute I spot some variation of “quiet,” I question who authored the piece. Is everything unfolding as quietly as we’re told? I doubt it.

For evidence of its ubiquity, I did a search on the word “quietly” in my inbox and you wouldn’t believe how many newsletters turned up with some version of quiet (but mostly “quietly”). Here are some examples:

• [Learn] what’s quietly costing you conversions.
• [It’s] work that quietly saves companies a ton of time.
• I’ve discovered a quieter kind of ambition.
• I spent an entire year building this program. Quietly. Carefully. (Further down in the same newsletter…) I wanted you to hear it from me first before it quietly changes.
• [Those] projects quietly drain your team’s time, energy, and focus.

3. Set-up question (ex: “And honestly?” “Can I be honest?”)

You’ll see variations on this, too, but does this mean the author hasn’t been honest until now? Here are some examples from recent newsletters:

• And honestly? It should have been there from day one.
• Honestly? This is one of those episodes where you pause, rewind, and take notes.
• It’s a weekend… and honestly? It’s one of my favorite times to work.
• Want to know the truth?
• (Though not in question format, this is similar): Because here’s the truth.

4. Rule of 3

This is a solid writing technique I’ve taught in The Art & Craft of Writing (ACW) that AI shoves into nearly every paragraph, sometimes back to back. Because it can produce such pleasant pacing in the right hands, I hate to bring it up. In fact, you’ll find it in my own work—maybe in this very blog post.

Nevertheless, here are examples pulled from my inbox:

• A book that becomes a workshop. A series of posts that becomes a live gathering. An idea that becomes a space people can step into.
• And you haven’t yet had that breakthrough moment, even though you’ve done the work, even though you’ve got the knowledge, even though you’ve got happy clients and testimonials.
• (From an earlier example): This is one of those episodes where you pause, rewind, and take notes.

Again, as with all of these, the rule of three can form the basis of quality writing, but AI has so enthusiastically included them in their drafts, the result is often clunky, obvious, and annoying.

The last example is kind of painful for me.

5. My beloved em dash

I use the em dash often, as it’s the most versatile punctuation at our disposal.

It connects ideas visually better than a semicolon or comma. It adds energy, urgency, or hesitation, depending on context. And it breaks up long sentences with a natural pause—no need to add a period and divide a long sentence into two choppy independent clauses when you can insert an em dash!

The problem is that AI writing programs use so many, you’d think they were crushing on Emily Dickinson. At a glance, AI drafts appear sewn together by a beginning seamstress, sentences stitched and held by multiple em dashes throughout every paragraph.

But I use them abundantly, too.

I’m not the only writer clutching her beloved em dash, refusing to give it up. Ann Handley has been rooting for the em dash on behalf of writers everywhere, as well. She argues:

Large language models are trained on millions of human-written sentences. (Mostly stolen, it must be said.)

And we modern online writers use em dashes a lot. They mimic our conversational, emotional, sometimes delightfully digressive voice—the kind that wanders, like it’s doing right here—before it then plops into a seat and parks itself.

So when AI learned to “sound human,” it picked up our favorite tic: the em dash.¹

Choose and Use What Feels Like You

I unite with Ann Handley and say go ahead and use the em dash if you want.

In fact, as you start to notice how much AI is copying us (but can’t achieve human finesse…yet), you may feel confident reclaiming contrast construction, set-up questions, and the rule of three, as well.

Let’s incorporate them into our work when appropriate—without worrying we’ll be accused of using AI in our creative process.

Because soon enough, the robot writers will shift to a new set of pet words and this list will be irrelevant.

I don’t want to sound like an AI writing app, but if I choose effective techniques and tropes to add the flow I want for my writing and they happen to be popular with AI…so be it.

Ross O’Lochlainn ends his emails with what he calls a “100% Human Guarantee.” He adds the image of a thumbprint alongside this:

This email was lovingly crafted by a human for a human. While I may use AI during my creative process (brainstorming, images etc), I will never use an AI or robot to represent me. It will always be me you see and read.²

Do we have to actually say this? Are we finally at the point where we must pledge that our projects are entirely human-produced?

I used to think a statement like that would be overkill, but honestly? Now I kind of like it.

So if you’re wondering, this blog post was written entirely by me, for you.

And I didn’t use AI during the creative process, either, so all of my AI mimicry is to make you laugh.

What AI words and phrases have you been noticing?

Resources:

• Whose Voice Is on Your Pages? Human vs. AI Writing
• Write to Discover Your Voice
• Metaphor Magic: Wave Your Pen Like a Wand
• To Be More Creative, Write a Letter to Your Reader

You want to write your truth (without AI)

Find your spark and hone your voice with guidance from a human writing coach

You’re ready to tell your story and write with confidence (without sounding like you’ve copied output from an AI chatbot)? Work with Ann Kroeker as your writing coach to sharpen your writing skills, gain confidence, and get the human input you’re looking for. Your spark is real. Let’s fan it into finished projects ready to publish.

CLICK to learn more!

Footnotes:

1. Ann Handley. “The Em Dash Is NOT an AI Tell: Justice for the Em Dash! – Ann Handley.” Ann Handley, 28 Nov. 2025, annhandley.com/em-dash.
2. Ross O’Lochlainn. Newsletter with subheading “The fallacy of ‘Selling too hard'” emailed to Ann Kroeker. 25 Feb. 2026.

I opened a newsletter a few weeks ago touting the “glorious” age of AI and the advantages it provides.

Hm, I thought. AI is fascinating, I guess. Speedy. Clever, in its way. But…glorious?

It’s been studying us. Wouldn’t that suggest anything “glorious” about AI can be attributed in part to what it’s drawn from that which makes us gloriously human? It did, after all, train on our published projects like articles, blog posts, and books, which it’s already consumed.

Where I’m at regarding AI writing

I’ve been thinking a lot about AI lately, as headline after headline offers dire warnings (job losses!) or lavish praises (glorious!), depending on the source. I know clients and colleagues who are using AI extensively in their operations, including research, drafting, and editing. And I know others who haven’t tried it even once.

To be honest, I’ve gone back and forth on it myself. When ChatGPT was first making the headlines in 2022, I “interviewed it“¹ because I was curious to see how it worked and what it would say. I was simultaneously freaked out and fascinated with the results. Should I avoid it or embrace it?

I didn’t decide on the spot. Instead, I experimented with it in low-stakes ways before drawing any conclusions. And it’s continued to evolve so rapidly, I feel like I land on an opinion only to change my mind a week later based on new information. I’m suffering from technological whiplash.

What is AI learning?

Now that AI is embedded in our writing programs, email inboxes, and more, I’m revisiting my opinion once more. What’s the purpose of infusing everything we touch with it? AI companies say AI is part of these systems to assist us. And it very well may be helpful for a lot of people and applications.

I’ve declined it or turned it off wherever possible, because I’m starting to wonder if it’s there not only to assist but also to learn from our unfolding ideas, structure, stories, word choice, sentence structure, and style. As it ostensibly helps us is it also studying the gloriously human way we think? It supposedly works “alongside” us; as it does, is it being trained not so much on what we’re saying but on how we write and think and puzzle over life moment by moment?

After all, writing is thinking, and thinking is one way to be human. This means embedded AI is aware of our every finger tap, learning the human mind-at-work. It sees how we think by watching every choice we make as we type a sentence, click backspace, tweak a phrase to revise and land on better phrasing, clearer expression.

Are these AI systems scanning our composition in Gmail, Google Docs, Notion, or Microsoft in real time—ideas we write to make sense of our world—to figure out how we process that which is formulating deep within us? Are they doing this so they can write better, or are they taking it a step further…to gather intel on the way we think so they can write and interact even more like us?

Maybe it’s my imagination running wild.

Let it in or leave it out?

Authors have tapped their imagination to write novels about trusting computers and “machines” too much and too early. Filmmakers made movies about it. These were meant to be warnings, cautionary tales; instead, some storylines seem as if they’re being used as blueprints to follow.

As a writer myself and a coach helping others find their voice, I feel more and more like we should resist using AI for our creative work. It may be fine, let’s say, for professional writing—producing an executive summary from one’s own notes, for example. But I feel more and more like we should find AI-free spaces to write more personal or provocative poetry and prose. In these, we express our deepest truths, tell vulnerable stories, reveal transformative narrative, and offer life-changing ideas. Allowing AI into making that feels…intrusive.

As I mentioned, good friends, colleagues, and far more successful coaches and creative advisors will disagree with me. They may argue we should treat it like a tool (it’s obviously here to stay, after all, so don’t be a Luddite, right?). If I don’t encourage you to use it, they might worry you’ll be left behind.

If we writers let AI help with non-creative tasks, it’ll free us to focus on our uniquely human contributions, they might say. These people might recommend AI as a research tool, a coach-replacement, or a writing-buddy to discuss the project and be sure we’re not missing anything. Discussing ideas with other people nearly always enhances our ideas. How different is that from engaging with AI?

And all these people may be right.

But I keep thinking…

Inviting AI to tell us what to think

While I don’t mean to be pessimistic or defeatist, AI is worming its way in where it isn’t wanted and our best efforts to avoid it may fail. I suspect it will continue to find and take all it needs. Until then, can’t we hold off on inviting AI into the private corners of our minds? Why give away thought? Why welcome AI to be part of our creative and writing process simply to be more productive?

When we allow it to contribute to our brainstorming process, we’re inviting it to tell us what to think. When we take that a step further and ask it to write on our behalf, it’s telling us how to express ourselves.

When we do that…who wrote it? Whose voice is on the page? Who do we credit when the piece is published? Are we giving up our distinctly human voice?

I’m remembering the scene in the The Little Mermaid where Ursula the Sea Witch commands, “Sing!” Ariel begins to do so, and Ursula shouts, “Keep singing!”²

As she sings, Ariel’s voice rises up from deep within her and appears in her throat as a shimmering sphere. A ghastly version of Ursula’s claw-like fingers reaches into Ariel’s throat, grabs the sphere, pulls it out, and holds it there, shimmering for an instant before she sucks it into a shell, where the voice remains inside, trapped and strapped around Ursula’s neck.

Once she gave up her voice, Ariel got the legs she wanted, but she could no longer speak or sing.

Writing helps us think and connect

The act of writing helps us learn more about ourselves and the world; it’s a way to process ideas and determine what we think and believe about them. It’s how we develop our voice and share it with others. Do you ever feel that shimmering power when you write? I don’t feel it every time I’m working, but sometimes I sense that shimmering energy when I’m deep in creative flow.

Writing can be one of the most rewarding, satisfying activities that results in authentic and intimate expressions of self. Why outsource that?

Offering up our gloriously human self to a machine might benefit us in the short run, but it’s benefiting the machine in the long run (and those behind the machine most of all). “Sing!” it’s shouting. “Keep singing!”

But it’s so handy!

Oh, but it’s hard to resist. Because it’s already everywhere and at times we have to make an effort not to use it. And it’s so darned handy.

AI can feel like a near-miraculous tool to help us write faster and edit easier—things we could do on our own, but slower and with more effort. No wonder that newsletter said it was “glorious.” It seems wild when an article draft can roll out in seconds on the screen—a draft like might take a day or longer with human effort alone. And when we’re stuck, it’s so easy to ask for a few ideas to get going.

I experimented with having AI create social media content by pulling from a blog post I’d written. That seemed helpful and harmless, as the original source was penned by me, so the excerpts were my own words. And I assumed LLMs had already gobbled up my original source for training purposes because it was published and public.

One time I had it draft a newsletter. I didn’t hate the final product—it actually did a decent job—but I hated how it made my feel: unsettled, unnerved. I scrapped it and started over on my own.

I thought I wanted a quick solution, but when it arrived so quickly, I realized that I prefer to wrestle with words and ideas. I needed to land on a conclusion that felt true to me, that emerged from my own internal struggle and questioning. If AI does all of my “thinking,” I’m shorting myself. In shorting myself, I think I would short my readers.

Nope. Not doing that again, even if it takes me far longer, even if my ideas draw from fewer sources. I know AI can be “trained on our voice” to “sound like us.” But if I do that, it’s not me. And I’d know it’s not me—that it’s something pretending to be me.

Wrestling with our drafts is part of a human’s writing process: we don’t need instant answers; we want to grapple with the ideas ourselves and find our own connections.

If AI does the research, what did we ourselves actually discover?

If AI connects the dots for us, what have we puzzled out to share?

If AI outlines the piece, has it landed on a flow that reflects our own way of thinking?

If AI drafts the piece or polishes it, what have we actually written?

Matthew McConaughey recently trademarked…himself. According to PC Magazine, he did it because “modern AI tools can convincingly replicate a person’s voice, face, and image, placing them in situations they never imagined or consented to.”³ He wants to control when and how his image or voice is used…because that’s his distinct, shimmering voice.

If I let AI write on my behalf, am I granting it permission to create a version of my writing voice? Am I relinquishing my gloriously human voice when I let it kind of “replicate” me? I’m not famous, but why would I so easily forfeit my own voice to gain so little when we have Matthew McConaughey modeling the choice to protect ownership of his voice?

I am using AI, though

I hope I’m not coming off self-righteous, because I do use AI to help with a few useful tasks that I’ll describe below. I will say, however, that as my conclusions shift, as I suspect they will (because they continue to), I’ll gladly stop using it even for creating things such as:

• transcripts from recorded trainings in YPM (my platform-building membership)
• time-stamped summaries of those training so we can find key moments in the videos more easily.
• direct quotes pulled from interviews that I can share on social media
• pro/con lists related to ideas I’m considering for my business
• descriptions of upcoming events in my community
• reasons to choose one to-do app over another
• video captions

These are ways I have been using AI. Will I continue? We shall see. So far those have felt like non-creative tasks that I’ve delegated to AI and it doesn’t feel like it contradicts my increasing resolve to leave AI completely out of my writing process.

What would happen if we switched from AI-assisted to no-AI writing at all?

What would happen if switched from, say, AI-assisted writing to no AI at all? What if we leave AI out of our writing process altogether and revert to exclusively human writing?

Without AI influencing our thoughts or expression, I think we’d produce words far more authentic and satisfying than anything AI could generate on our behalf.

Instead of article or essay drafts spit out in seconds, we’d write forward through Resistance and enjoy aha moments that burst into our minds like shimmering balls of light. Without AI, you’ll feel something inside your head and heart that whirs and stirs in an only-human way.

That said, if you are using AI and feel it is in no way taking over your creativity, please keep using it. Don’t let my line of thinking make you feel defensive, upset, or shamed. Use it thoughtfully and intentionally if you’ve discovered how to enhance your work and you feel good about it. Make your choice boldly.

I would encourage you to notice if, at any stage of your creative process, AI is throttling your own glorious voice or altering it to the point of being unrecognizable. If so, revisit your reason. Is AI still serving you well? If yes, keep going. If not, maybe find a way to return to human-only writing.

Publishing and AI writing

Publishing is reacting to changes in AI and how authors are employing it, so what I share right now might be obsolete next month. But if you’re a writer pursuing publishing, consider the following:

Are you submitting your writing to an agent or publisher? If you’re submitting to a traditional publisher, consider absolute minimum or zero AI input. Even though publishers themselves are using AI in their processes and workflows, they seem to be requesting that writers do not at all.

Certainly if you us it at all, such as for AI assistance, document every instance and be ready to show that to your agent or editor. I think the primary reason for requesting no AI is to ensure the copyright is legally yours. I’m not a legal expert, but as I understand it, AI content cannot be copyrighted, so that seems to be at the root of it.⁴

Here’s a filter when you’re debating your AI use. Ask yourself, “When it comes to using AI, what would ___________ do?” Think of a writer you admire, even someone no longer alive. If they understood what AI is capable of, how would they use it, or would they use it at all?

Plug in a name: When it comes to using AI, what would Madeleine L’Engle do? Emily Dickinson? Ray Bradbury? Wendell Berry? (Haha…I think we know what Wendell Berry would do!) Swap those names for your own literary heroes. Let them offer guidance, even if you have to imagine their response.

Glorious human writing takes longer to produce

If you’ve been using AI, you may be thrilled at how much faster you complete projects. If you’ve been reading this and rethinking your use, you’ll find it hard to switch back to 100 percent human effort. Writing from start to finish all on your own, will take longer even for speedy writers.

Slowing down can of course be a problem if you’re under a deadline and your draft isn’t even started, but if you can take the time to tackle it all on your own, I believe gloriously human writing contributes and leads to a more glorious humanity.

Some AI optimists are saying say that AI’s ability to problem-solve will definitely benefit humanity. I don’t claim to speak into that at all, and I’m even taking a risk weighing in on my thoughts on AI and writing.

Heck, maybe this is reading like a manifesto, but I’m concerned that letting AI take over much of our writing process means AI will be contributing in that way to humanity as much or more than humans. We’ll end up with a strange, circular, ever-shrinking experience, with fewer fresh ideas emerging as we writers keep drawing from that same well. If we take what AI is giving us, we’re just sloshing it around and pouring it back into the same well again.

This is arguable. Feel free to disagree.

Draw from real writers

In fact, I can think of one way to disagree. You could argue that writers have been caught up in a circular experience as we continue studying “the greats.” When we learn and apply their techniques, passing along in new packages the same old hero’s journey with its tropes and techniques…or when we read challenging classic essays and build on their ideas, that’s kind of the same thing, right? We’re taking it in and letting it influence what we write. We’re drawing from the well and pouring back into the well.

I don’t know…

Readers engage with the written word in a much more intimate way than AI ever could, even when analyzing it. When we engage with texts preserved over the ages—untouched by AI—we aren’t mechanically memorizing it. It becomes part of us and what we write next is far more thoughtful than parroted paraphrasing. I prefer to be part of a line of humans reading, reasoning, and interacting with texts penned by other humans…not a line of AI-generated thoughts.

Write as yourself

As we write during this “glorious era” increasingly infiltrated by AI, I do think it’s wise to continue to read about it. Learn about AI’s rapidly expanding capabilities so you aren’t left behind or taken by surprise. I subscribe to newsletters focused on AI advancements so I can stay alert (and at times, to be honest, alarmed).

But when it comes to your writing, take your own notes. Create your own outline. Write your own draft. In those early iterations, do all of that without any AI assistance so you come to your own conclusions first.

Write as yourself…as your gloriously human self. Write from yourself. Bring your messy message, your half-formed truths, and let writing itself be the tool you use to sort it out. Grapple with ideas and sentence structure and word choice to convey your meaningful message.

I’m here for all the misplaced modifiers and overused filler words. Guess how we can fix that? Yes, I know. You can let AI clean up your draft. But you could also read it aloud, self-edit, or even hire human editors who bring their gloriously human skills to our pages.

Whose voice will be on your pages? I hope it’s your gloriously human voice. I don’t want to read what you asked AI to write for you. I want to read what you have to say…the way only you can say it. Maybe it’ll be less organized, a little repetitive, but it’ll be your voice singing—shimmering—on the page.

Additional Resources:

• Metaphor Magic: Wave Your Pen Like a Wand
• To Be More Creative, Write a Letter to Your Reader
• Never Go to Bed without a Story to Tell

FREE Email Course

Why doesn’t your writing linger with readers?

Grab this free, four-lesson course: Metaphor Magic. Master this literary device and your words will stick with readers long after they step away from your pages.

Footnotes:

1. Kroeker, Ann. “AI writing tools keep getting better. How can writers keep up? (Interview with ChatGPT) – Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach.” Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach, 2 Nov. 2025, annkroeker.com/2022/12/15/ai-writing-tools-keep-getting-better-how-can-writers-keep-up-interview-with-chatgpt. Accessed 6 February 2026.
2. Sparkle), The Sparkle Girl (aka Caitlin. “Ariel’s Voice Taken By Ursula ~ (The Little Mermaid) (1989).” YouTube, 7 July 2022, www.youtube.com/watch?v=77qTN9kD8sY. Accessed 6 February 2026.
3. “McCurdy, Will. “Matthew McConaughey Trademarks Himself to Fight AI Impersonations.” PCMAG, 17 Jan. 2026, www.pcmag.com/news/matthew-mcconaughey-trademarks-himself-to-fight-ai-impersonations. Accessed 5 February 2026.
4. Professor Uche Ewelukwa Ofodile | U. Arkansas School of Law, U. S. “Explainer: AI and Copyright—Can Works Created Solely by AI Be Copyrighted?” – JURIST – Features – Legal News & Commentary, 17 June 2025, www.jurist.org/features/2025/06/17/explainer-ai-and-copyright-can-works-created-solely-by-ai-be-copyrighted. Accessed 6 February 2026.

Can’t we writers get by with a simple pen and notebook? If it was good enough for Emily Dickinson and William Faulkner, it’s good enough for us, right?

Yes. Of course. (I am, after all, attached to my three-ring binder and Pilot Precise V5 RT.)

And yet…

Without tech, few readers find us. I suppose we could pin a manifesto to the coffee shop bulletin board, but only a few passers-by would glance at it.

If we want to share our words more widely with the world, we need to get our words off the pages that sit in a notebook, journal, or diary and into some digital format, because that’s how we publish and distribute our work in 2026.

It’s how we can share our meaningful message broadly. It’s how we encourage people, speak our truth, and take our stand.

If we offer a service or sell books, we need business infrastructure to manage that, as well.

My Main Tools for Writing and Coaching in 2026

I took a simple poll over on Instagram, asking if people want to know the tools and programs I use to run my writing and coaching business—even though the list will be boring.

Despite that disclaimer, most everyone voted they wanted me to share what I use.

Over the years my “tech stack” has evolved. I’ve tested both free and paid options, landed on a tool that served me for years and then switched it up to save money or simplify my workflow. Knowing it’ll continue to evolve, here’s a list of what I currently use:

Writing, Planning & Content Creation

• Google Docs: For my own writing and collaborative projects with clients, I use Google Docs for syncing across devices, sharing, suggesting, and commenting (though Word is what clients use when pitching agents). [Link to Google Docs]
• Notion: I use Notion for note-taking, reference material, project planning, and drafting short-form work (like my newsletter and social media captions). [Link to Notion]
• Obsidian: I use Obsidian for private writing because the local-file approach appeals to me (everything stays offline and under my control, even though it means I must manage manual cross-device syncing). [Link to Obsidian]
• Loom: For coaching call replays, course content, and client explainer videos (such as editing walkthroughs), I use Loom to create screen recordings with voiceover narration—sometimes with my face in the corner, sometimes just my voice (I also record personal voice notes on the go to transcribe and repurpose as content drafts). [Link to Loom]

Coaching & Communication

• Heartbeat (.chat): This community-first all-in-one system powers my AK Coaching learning space, where I deliver my courses such as Make Your Sentences Sing and connect with my communities such as WriteTrackers and Your Platform Matters. [Link to Heartbeat.chat (note: I may earn a commission if you sign up through this link)]
• Zoom: For in-depth 1:1 and group coaching calls, I use Zoom to host sessions where we dig into strategy, work through obstacles, and build momentum together (I record most calls as a value add). [Link to Zoom]
• Voxer or Heartbeat’s messaging: For on-demand coaching between Zoom calls, I use Voxer and/or Heartbeat’s messaging for asynchronous 1:1 exchanges via text or voice notes—this lets us respond on our own timelines and keep momentum going without scheduling pressure (I also offer group coaching through these same tools in YPM). [Link to Voxer’s web page, but it’s best used as a mobile app]
• TidyCal: For scheduling 1-to-1 calls, I use TidyCal, a more affordable alternative to Calendly and available through AppSumo for a one-time fee. [Link to TidyCal (note: I may earn a commission if you purchase through this link)]

Business Infrastructure

• Email Service Provider: I use a multi-provider strategy with Kit (at a reduced price point) for its referral system + Encharge for cost-effective automation (purchased through AppSumo). [Link to Kit + Link to Encharge and maybe it will come back to AppSumo (note: I may earn a commission if you purchase through these links)]
• Website Host: I use Siteground to host my WordPress website; it’s boring, but necessary, because without it I would have a home base for this website, where I can feature all my content, free offerings, and paid services. [Link to Siteground (note: I may earn a commission if you purchase through this link)]
• Podcast Host: Blubrry has hosted my podcast since 2014. [Link to Blubrry (note: I may earn a commission if you purchase through this link)]
• Feedly & Bookmarks: I use Feedly and Firefox bookmarks to collect and curate industry links and resources that I enjoy reading and sharing with you here. [Link to Feedly; bookmarks are available on all browsers]
• Canva: This design program gives non-designers like me a way to create images for any online use, from blog post headers and social media posts to lead magnets and course promos. [Link to Canva]
• ToDoist: After cycling through various digital to-do systems, I’ve returned to Todoist because I appreciate its simple approach to task management. [Link to ToDoist]
• Stripe: For invoicing and payment processing, I use Stripe to securely collect payments from coaching clients and course students. [Link to Stripe]
• WPForms: For client queries and intake forms, I use WPForms, a WordPress plugin that sends responses straight to my inbox. [Link to WPForms]
• 1Password: I use 1Password for password management and secure access. [Link to 1Password]
• Zemith: I use this multi-chat tool for AI that I purchased for a one-time fee through AppSumo, avoiding monthly fees of multiple systems. [Link to Zemith]
• Late: Similar to Buffer, this new, simple social media scheduler (also purchased for a one-time fee through AppSumo) allows me to batch create and load up social media updates at my convenience so I can focus on interacting with people instead of creating and uploading in the moment. [Link to Late and maybe it will come back to AppSumo (note: I may earn a commission if you purchase through these links)]
• Castmagic: This tool transcribes audio from teaching sessions, client calls, and recorded content, generating summaries and takeaways. [Link to Castmagic and maybe it will come back to AppSumo for a one-time investment (note: I may earn a commission if you purchase through these links)]

I warned people this was just a boring list, but there you go.

I’m sure you have your own tech preferences, as well. Do you switch things up or keep things streamlined, simple, and steady?

And do you have non-negotiable tool or program you use in your writing life—something you can’t live (or write) without?

You want to write your truth (without AI)

Find your spark and hone your voice with guidance from a human writing coach

You’re ready to tell your story and write with confidence (without sounding like you’ve copied output from an AI chatbot)? Work with Ann Kroeker as your writing coach to sharpen your writing skills, gain confidence, and get the human input you’re looking for. Your spark is real. Let’s fan it into finished projects ready to publish.

CLICK to learn more!

For years, writers have asked for my take on a pressing question: traditional publishing or self-publishing?

We end up discussing how personal the decision can be, determined by an author’s personality, drive, and goals. We also look at the book itself and decide which publishing path is the best fit for that particular project.

Because of this personalized approach—and because I support writers no matter which publishing path they choose—I’ve resisted landing on a general conclusion. Instead, I invited Janyre Tromp to tackle the topic on the podcast.

An award-winning nonfiction and fiction author and editor, Janyre has more than 20 years of experience in acquiring and editing books for traditional publishers and indie authors. But she’s branched out even more, and after exploring and experimenting with self-publishing as an author herself, she has extensive insights to share from all sides of the publishing world.

In this discussion, Janyre breaks down each publishing model, defining key terms, weighing pros and cons, and sharing practical strategies for writers exploring their options. You’ll learn:

• Clear definitions of vanity press, hybrid publishing, self-publishing, and traditional publishing
• Why she decided to try self-publishing (indie publishing) after undeniable success as a traditionally published author
• How she leverages her marketing background for maximum sales
• When to choose traditional publishing vs. self-publishing vs. other options
• The financial realities and potential of each publishing path
• Which path has become her favorite (and why)

Whether you’re just starting out or reconsidering your publishing strategy, this conversation will help you move forward with confidence.

Meet Janyre

An award-winning nonfiction and fiction editor, Janyre has more than 20 years of experience in acquiring and editing books for traditional publishers and indie authors. She also has an additional 10 years of experience in book marketing. She has worked with nearly a thousand books written by new and seasoned authors. All of which makes her uniquely suited to equip authors with the tools to help them navigate the quagmire.

She adores working with writers and equipping them to make their books the best they can be. But she is also the bestselling hybrid author of myth-flavored historical suspense, including Darkness Calls the Tiger, Shadows in the Mind’s Eye, Lovely Life, and O Little Town.

Resources:

• Read, watch, or listen to another interview with Janyre at Start with Your Ideal Audience: Insights from Janyre Tromp
• Janyre taught about finding your ideal audience in YPM (join and I’ll point you to the replay: Your Platform Matters (YPM)
• Learn more about Janyre Tromp: janyretromp.com and Editing Insiders
• Janyre’s free Facebook group for editing questions: Editing Insiders on Facebook
• This discussion pairs nicely with “Don’t Wait to Share Your Message“
• Jane Friedman’s P&L info where you can make a copy of her Google doc: The Book P&L: How Publishers Make Decisions About What to Publish
• Jane Friedman’s industry-focused paid newsletter, The Bottom Line (mentioned in the interview)
• Wild Heart Books (Janyre mentioned Misty M. Beller, the publisher; Janyre is on the team as Managing Editor)
• Grafted Page Press, the co-op mentioned in the interview
• Fayette Press for Sci-Fi and Fantasy books, mentioned in the interview

NOTE: Prefer to watch? Check out the YouTube version HERE (or click on the image)

Rough Transcript

Ann Kroeker [00:00:03]:
I’m Ann Kroeker, writing coach. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome. If you’re a regular, welcome back. Today you have joined hundreds of established and emerging writers who are discovering ways to reach their writing goals and have fun by being more curious, creative and productive. You’re listening to the Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach podcast. This is episode 286, Self-Publishing vs. Traditional: Janyre Tromp’s Real-World Experience with Both (and Clear Favorite). I’m thrilled to have Janyre with us.

Ann Kroeker [00:00:35]:
She’s an award-winning author and editor with over 20 years of experience in traditional publishing. Plus she has over 10 years experience in book marketing. And here’s what makes this conversation so valuable. She has now experienced both size traditional and. And self publishing. That’s right. She’s a best selling author in the traditional space who is now experimenting with indie publishing or self publishing. She’s going to break down the real differences between vanity press, hybrid press, self publishing, and traditional publishing.

Ann Kroeker [00:01:08]:
So if you’re weighing your options or you’re just curious about the implications of each path, this is the episode for you. Let’s jump right in with Janyre Tromp. If you can summarize this idea of forming a co op that you were telling me about for. Explain that briefly and then I have questions to follow.

Janyre’s Background and Indie Pivot

Janyre Tromp [00:01:28]:
Yeah. So to kind of recap a little bit, you were asking me.

Janyre Tromp [00:01:34]:
Like, what I do. I do all the things, right? So my background, I have editorial marketing and the business side of the publishing world and I do a little bit of all of the above. My day job lands in the editing and kind of the business side, marketing side of things mostly. And then I write and it’s about a third of my time kind of split between the three. But one of the really interesting things, I’m leaning hard right now with my writing into heading indie. And there was a whole bunch of reasons behind that. Um, but I had dipped my toes in the water of the indie space and went, oh, wow, I can move books. Let’s try this thing.

Ann Kroeker [00:02:22]:
And this is from somebody coming from a traditional background. You, you are traditionally published. That’s what you all. You knew before, right?

Janyre Tromp [00:02:29]:
Correct? Correct. So I not only was indie published, but I worked for, or I’m sorry, traditionally published. It was not only traditionally published. I worked for traditional publishers for almost 30 years.

Ann Kroeker [00:02:43]:
Right.

Janyre Tromp [00:02:43]:
And so about two years ago, I went out on my own, started freelancing, started interacting with all of these indie authors and going, huh, this sounds, this sounds kind of interesting. And fun. I’m just gonna, just gonna try it. And I have done a lot of work for one of the many things that I do, the many hats that I wear. I work for Misty Beller at Wild Heart Books. She’s a phenomenal woman. Very, very creative, very author friendly, very indie-minded type person.

Janyre Tromp [00:03:18]:
And kind of under her guidance and tutelage, I was like, let’s try this, this indie thing.

Ann Kroeker [00:03:24]:
On your own or with her?

Janyre Tromp [00:03:26]:
On my own. And then she’s done a couple of things to help me. But it’s like all of a sudden this whole world is open where I’m not constrained anymore to what the traditional publishing world can offer. So I’m kind of pause for just a minute.

Bookstore Access vs Reader Access

Ann Kroeker [00:03:48]:
Yes, I know people, anybody who hears that is going to say, but wait, traditional publishing offers more. There’s constraints. What do you mean? What are you getting from, from, from this indie publishing self publishing path that you weren’t getting? It seems like you would get more from traditional publishing.

Janyre Tromp [00:04:07]:
Well, not necessarily anymore. So the interesting thing that’s been happening in the marketplace and this has been happening over time and if you are in the industry and you’re wanting to be published traditional or indie or hybrid, which is the mix of the two, which is what I am. Jane Friedman is an excellent resource and Ann, I know you keep up with her because I see, I see it come through, little blips come through in your newsletter, which I also keep up with.

Janyre Tromp [00:04:37]:
But the publishers are struggling to find the market.

Janyre Tromp [00:04:44]:
The market hasn’t gone away. It’s just they’re harder to get to, they’re harder to find. And publishers tend to publish a lot of different things and they kind of throw things at the wall to see what sticks. And then if it sticks, then they put marketing money behind it. So it’s this kind of backward processing that has been kind of slowly evolving along with social media and this whole influencer concepting.

Janyre Tromp [00:05:13]:
And there’s a whole thing about that too. But what’s happened is that middle tier authors are not getting the support that they would normally get in the past. And so while publishers, traditional publishers can and sometimes do offer a broader access to bookstores, that doesn’t necessarily translate into a broader access to readers. Okay. So I’m going to say that again because that’s like a really interesting…that was a hard thing for me to get my head around. So traditional publishers often give you better access into bookstores, but that does not necessarily translate into better access to readers.

Janyre Tromp [00:06:00]:
And so what we’re seeing is, the indie world has figured out how to get to readers without the publishers in the bookstores. We still get into bookstores and there’s a whole way to do that, which is fun and lovely and super fun to play with.

Perception and Professionalism in Indie

Janyre Tromp [00:06:18]:
But part of the baggage that comes along with being an indie author is this perception that self published authors are not professional, they’re not polished, that their books aren’t worth reading, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so one of the things that you and I were talking about before, which is why you’re like, hey, yeah, let me press record.

Janyre Tromp [00:06:40]:
One of the things that we’re starting to do as authors. Some of us have, as I do, have a marketing background and we’re very savvy in how we reach our readers. And so we’re starting to band together. So I ran across this group of authors.

Forming an Imprint Co‑op

Janyre Tromp [00:07:02]:
It’s Fayette Press, if anybody is interested. And they’re a group of science fiction fantasy authors who kind of have formed this co-op under an imprint. And because they are under an imprint, they are considered by the trade publication. So Publishers Weekly, Midwest Book Review, whoever else. Most of the trade publications will say that if an imprint carries more than one or two authors, they will be considered a small press. So they will review your books, treat your books as if it were a small press. Okay?

Ann Kroeker [00:07:46]:
Okay.

Janyre Tromp [00:07:47]:
So one of the things that’s very lovely about the way things are set up, at least at the moment, is that I can be under an imprint. So I don’t go, but one of the girls that I’m working with goes to Bowker, buys a batch of ISBNs under one imprint name. And ours is Grafted Press. No grafted pages. This is super new, like as in yesterday.

Janyre Tromp [00:08:24]:
Grafted Pages.

Ann Kroeker [00:08:27]:
Crafted or grafted?

Janyre Tromp [00:08:37]:
Grafted. Like “grafted in,” like a tree branch grafted. Grafted Print…Press. And so she buys the ISBN from Bowker under that imprint name. I have ways to reimburse her with actually with…I trade services for her buying the ISBN. So there’s actually no exchange of money, just to keep it super clean. And then I maintain my own KDP account on Amazon. So I upload my books, my ISBNs, all my things onto Amazon. And so all the money comes directly to me. My cohorts in crime don’t have to deal with paying out other people, yada yada. And it’s the same thing with IngramSpark and Draft to Digital, which those three tend to be the major players for all of this indie publishing world.

KU, Libraries, and Indie Distribution

Janyre Tromp [00:09:33]:
And so there’s. And, and there’s actually. I don’t know if you’ve heard this, Ann. It’s a really exciting. If you’re looking at indie publishing, there is a way. Now Amazon is letting anybody who is enrolled in Kindle Unlimited to also allow libraries access to the ebooks, which I am a huge ebook and audiobook library reader. So my indie published titles can be in KU and also now in Hoopla and Libby, which is like huge and awesome.

Ann Kroeker [00:10:11]:
Yeah.

Janyre Tromp [00:10:13]:
So the whole, the whole evolution of, of the indie publishing is kind of exploding and it’s really fun to watch. There’s actually audiobook publishers out there that love working with indies who have some kind of track record. So you wouldn’t be able to go unless you have, unless you have paid to have somebody do the audio recording for you. There are really good audiobook publishers who will distribute for you.

Janyre Tromp [00:10:42]:
But some of the big players are willing to work with indie authors and pay them royalties just like they would pay for a publisher because they recognize that indie, good indie authors can move books.

Ann Kroeker [00:10:56]:
Which means moving books, means people are buying them. They’re giving money to read your book. And there are several things you touched on. One was you said I have a marketing background. Or maybe everybody in your team at Grafted Press does. Okay, just, just you. But do you think that somebody else who is a writer who’s very intrigued by what you’re saying and they don’t have a marketing background. Should they not even try this? Because you have to have that mindset to be able to succeed.

Indie Authors Helping Indie Authors

Janyre Tromp [00:11:24]:
Now that’s the one thing that’s really lovely about the indie author world. Every single indie author I’ve ever run into is more than happy to help. They have a huge mindset of reaching out to other authors and helping them along. So there’s actually Facebook groups that are specifically dedicated to indie authors. Can I think of them off of the top of my head?

Ann Kroeker [00:11:47]:
No, it’s very searchable. We will be able to find them.

Janyre Tromp [00:11:50]:
Yeah, I think one of them is 20 books to 50k.

Janyre Tromp [00:11:55]:
And that one is a really, really good resource if you happen to be in the Christian market. Christian indie authors is another good Facebook group. Christian indie authors, yes, is another good Facebook group. But Joanna Penn has a lot of really good information. A lot of us are out there who are authors offering services. And we recognize that being an indie author is not easy, it’s not cheap. And we, we are, you know, we, we need to feed our kids and stuff, but we also don’t charge the same types of fees that you’ll see for, you know, the general market, really big, big houses and that type of a thing, the fees that they charge. So we’re starting to.

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Services Ecosystem Catching Up

Janyre Tromp [00:12:45]:
It’s kind of what the, the services industry is catching up to the indie publishing world and offering little bits and pieces. So like I have access to people who can do the layouts of the interior layouts. There’s actually a group, they’re called, it’s under Victory Editing. And they buy NetGalley access at a much cheaper rate because they buy them in bulk. And so, and they offer that to indie authors and there’s a way to process through that. So you access to NetGalley, which if you’re not familiar with, is kind of a way to distribute your advanced reader copies or your ARCs to potential readers out there. And the nice thing about NetGalley is that it actually will market to some extent your arcs to people who are interested in your topic.

Building and Vetting Your Team

Ann Kroeker [00:13:37]:
This is, it’s sounding like you have to. So everybody who’s ever even considered self publishing understands that you need to build your team. And I think that’s perhaps for a lot of people. The most daunting thing is how do I find all these people? But what I’m hearing you say is that if you get to plug yourself into the ever increasing number of people ready to support you, you can get the information you need, you can find the people, you can vet them.

I know I have one client who’s very disappointed in one of the team members she hired for something. So she’s very nervous now and scared that she’s going to find another bad experience. So this is something where you could get recommendations people can give you honest input on. Yeah, the top recommendation for this genre is this editor or this designer for this cover.

Ann Kroeker [00:14:20]:
That kind of thing. Is that what I’m hearing?

Janyre Tromp [00:14:22]:
Absolutely. And if you are looking for people who do designs and, and interior and cover designs that you are interested in, one of the best recommendations I have is to go grab a copy of a book that you love the cover of and look in the copyright page because oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes the cover designer or the interior designer will be listed and you can contact those people directly. And say, hey, I saw your cover on whatever. If you loved my cover of Darkness Calls the Tiger, which won awards. It’s amazing. If you open it up, you’ll see who is the person that designed my cover. And you can contact them and, you know, hire them right there then and there to do your own cover.

Ann Kroeker [00:15:09]:
I suspect they’re just about to get a flood of inquiries.

Janyre Tromp [00:15:14]:
The team that did my cover, I will tell you, they are not cheap, I will tell you that. But they’re good. They are very good. They win awards. A lot of awards.

Imprint Logistics, Contracts, and ISBNs

Ann Kroeker [00:15:24]:
Well, you bring up another topic, which is whether you have a. You have a team that you’ve gone with, like you are with your grafted pages press or whatever it is. Did I get the name right?

Janyre Tromp [00:15:34]:
Grafted page. Grafted page.

Ann Kroeker [00:15:38]:
That sounds like it’s lifting some of the burden by getting that wider distribution. But I have, like, weird little nervousness about, like, what does this mean for the U? What for the ISBN, like, what would happen if the person who bought it, God forbid, passes away? Then who owns the ISBN? Like, I have, like, quirky questions like that. Because once you do team up, even in a small way, it does raise questions about who owns what and where. Where is it going? And do you have a lot of contracts you’re signing? Tell me a little bit about all that.

Janyre Tromp [00:16:09]:
Absolutely. I was going to say that, my friend, is where contracts come in.

Contracts and Legal Tools

Janyre Tromp [00:16:14]:
Because it is very important. Whenever you enter into a business agreement with anybody for anything, whether that’s the editing or the COVID or whatever, please make sure you have a contract. Please make sure you check it. I don’t know where everybody stands on ChatGPT, but sometimes I will plug a contract into ChatGPT and say, tell me things that I should be worried about. Tell me the questions I should ask about this. And so it’s not like feeding me, you know, information. It’s not. I, I use it as a tool.

Janyre Tromp [00:16:48]:
But it gives me like, oh, I should watch out for this. You know, this is not in my best, best interest. I should query about this little point right here or I don’t know what ChatGPT is smoking. It is absolutely fine. Like, you know. But yes, there we do have contracts in place to protect us for weird eventualities, specifically with the ISBN.

ISBN Ownership and Title Changes

Janyre Tromp [00:17:22]:
My ISBN, once it is assigned to a title, it cannot be changed off of that title. That is one of the things that is kind of nice about poker Is once you assign a title, you, if you want to change the title, you have to buy a new ISBN.

Janyre Tromp [00:17:42]:
So nobody can take that, that ISBN away from me ever.

Fiction vs Nonfiction: Paths and Strategies

Ann Kroeker [00:17:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we talked a lot about all, you know, increased sales increase, you know, broader reach to readers. But I have the feeling that most of what you’re talking about is for fiction authors of novels, especially genre novels. Like they fall very cleanly into a type of genre where we have avid readers who want to read a whole series and they’ll read the really fat books that take them many, many days, if not weeks to read. Okay, so what about nonfiction?

Going Wide for Nonfiction

Janyre Tromp [00:18:17]:
So publishing wide means that you are publishing on Amazon, but you actually make a little bit lesser royalty and you are publishing your ebooks on both, not on both, but on Amazon IngramSpark and draft to digital. There are other, again, there are so many. There’s Kobo and there’s all, all kinds of things, all kinds of places you can put your book and go feel free to do such things and.

Janyre Tromp [00:19:21]:
But then because the nonfiction just publishes differently, then you go wide with it. And then your marketing strategy is a little bit different too. But you guys have this advantage of having your target market tends to group in places way more than our fiction readers do. So you have these lovely, very focused topics of discussion that you can take advantage of. Your newsletter becomes enormously important. You can do speaking. There’s all kinds, writing for magazines and blogs. And because you have this topic that resonates with you, hopefully resonates with your reader, if it doesn’t resonate with your reader, go listen to the target my audience discussion.

Felt Need and Event Sales Economics

Janyre Tromp [00:20:10]:
But the whole point is to find things that people need, which is leads us directly into a marketing term called felt needed. And if you’re addressing a need for a niche audience, self publishing is the bomb for you, especially out there speaking because you are no longer you. I don’t know if people know this, but if, if you publish traditionally, you have to pay your publisher for the book that you bring with you. And it’s typically not an like super awesome discount. Okay. So you’re paying a good chunk of change to go sell books.

Janyre Tromp [00:20:54]:
And it. You still have to pay for the printing cost of your books when you, when you print from IngramSpark, print on demand from IngramSpark. But it’s a much less cost to print through Ingram Spark. And then you get to keep everything that, that you make then, whether it’s being sold through Amazon or again, all the other places. So you make out, you make more per book.

Print Runs vs POD Logistics

Ann Kroeker [00:21:25]:
Could you. Two questions about that. Number one, could you use your print, the print version Bowker ISBN and go to a local printer and do a print run of your book?

Janyre Tromp [00:21:36]:
Right? Yes. Because the ISBN belongs to you. Yes.

Ann Kroeker [00:21:38]:
Okay. And then another. Oh, go ahead.

Janyre Tromp [00:21:41]:
Yeah, I was gonna say. But the problem with that then is that you are responsible for warehousing and shipping. So you can totally 100 percent do that. I am a…okay, so I’m very, I’m very organized. And most people would not realize this when they know me in the business world, but people who know me as a person, I’m a flake. I’m an absolute airhead with 5 billion things going on in my head at all times.

Janyre Tromp [00:22:06]:
And if I don’t write it down or put it in my to do list on my phone, which will remind me at some point that, hey, Janyre, you need to do this. It doesn’t get done. So it’s like this whole, it’s this whole thing that you have to do and you just have to learn what works for you.

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Who Should and Shouldn’t Self-Publish

Janyre Tromp [00:22:34]: There are people I would not suggest self publishing. There really are. And there are people that I would not recommend traditionally publishing. Self publishing is great for people who are willing to learn. It doesn’t matter if you don’t know now, but if you’re willing to learn or willing to hire somebody to help you in an area where you just can’t learn, like if technology is not your thing, either find your kid or grandkid or neighbor or somebody who believes strong.

Janyre Tromp: I was just talking to somebody yesterday that she has somebody who believes so strongly in her ministry that this woman for free does all of her social media. And I’m like, God, can you send me one of those? Right. Wow. So you have to be willing to learn and willing to take these things on or willing to find somebody who can.

Pricing, P&L, and Market Research

Ann Kroeker [00:23:21]:
Yeah. And then price wise, like, it could be pricing people out of what they’re ever going to earn back. How do you address that question or that concern?

Janyre Tromp [00:23:29]:
Yep. And so indie authors, well, authors in general, your business, you have to think of yourself as a business, which is why I recommend contracts. But you have to think of yourself as a business. So I have spreadsheets where I run profit loss guesstimations on things.

There’s a friend of mine and I and we are talking about doing a service business where we just work together to provide services for indie authors. Because we have, between us, I think we have like almost 90 years of experience in the publishing industry. So if we don’t know how to do something, we can hook you up with somebody who can kind of situation. And we are talking through like figuring that out, right? And so one of the first things we did was we went, okay, well how much are people going to be willing to pay for this? Right? So you do market research.

Janyre Tromp [00:24:22]:
So you go out. If you’re a book author and you’re writing on X topic and your book. Well, actually before you go, before you go looking to see how much it costs, you should probably figure out how long the books typically are, right? So you go and you find out almost the books in this topic are 200 pages, right? Amazon, Ingram, everybody publishes the cost of printing those books.

Amazon actually has a place where you can say, my book is 200 pages, I want to charge X amount of dollars. And they’re going to say, I’m sorry, you will owe US A$50 for every book you sell. You might want to raise your price, right? So you figure out, okay, how much do I need to charge in order to make a profit and will people purchase it at that amount? Because if you’re selling a paperback for $27.

Janyre Tromp [00:25:16]:
You’re probably not going to sell any books. That’s a lot of money for a 200 page paperback book. It just is. Now if you put a hardcover on it that might sell, it’ll be more for you to print though too because hardcovers cost more money. So it’s this whole thing where again, if this is making you panic, breathe for a minute, think about it, come back, look at it, say, do I want to take this on yes or no? And if you are like I, I’m still panicking and I still want to figure out how to do it. Learn one little tiny piece at a time. One little tiny piece at a time. So you figure out who your target market is.

Target Market First, Then Incremental Steps

Janyre Tromp [00:26:00]:
That should be your first step in anything you’re doing. Find out who your target market is, find out if what you want to write about is going to resonate with them, and then you move from there and you move each step incrementally down until you have a book that you’re proud of, that’s edited and all the things. And then you figure out the marketing piece, you know, and you can’t neglect that part.

Ann Kroeker [00:26:25]:
I think that there is that tendency like I have the book, I’m done and there is so much more. You’ve only just begun.

Janyre Tromp [00:26:31]:
Exactly. And that’s, that is a mistake. I see quite often is authors jumping too quickly to hit publish without stepping back and, and building a desire for the book or word of mouth about the book.

Who Benefits from Each Path

Ann Kroeker [00:26:48]:
Yeah, and you said that. So I, I feel like you’re leaning on this really encouraging people like, don’t, don’t discount this. This is a legitimate path that you can take and you can get there. And here’s how. Which is what you just gave us. What a gift. Now you did say briefly that there are some people you would recommend traditional publishing for and some that you might not. You want to touch on that a little bit?

Janyre Tromp [00:27:12]:
Absolutely. So there’s, there’s some things that are very clear. There are some topics that the traditionally published world is just not going to do. There are some books that they’re just, they’re not going to publish and it might either be because the, the number of people in the target market is too small for them because they have to pay all this overhead. They have to pay their editors and their cover designers and their marketing team and their sales team. So they have this huge overhead that they have to cover. So they have to sell X number of books to break even. Right.

Janyre Tromp [00:27:48]:
We all understand that they want to feed their kids. I have no problem with this. Right. But if your market is smaller than what their, you know, drop dead number is, they’re not going to publish your book. It still might be a really helpful book and it’s still something that would sell and you can make a profit on it because you don’t have all this overhead. Right. You don’t have all, all these people that you have to pay over here. And so those people 100%.

Effective Nonfiction Marketing Beyond Social Media

Janyre Tromp [00:28:18]:
It’s a great idea for you to self publish if you have a place to market those books. And by the way, when I say market those books, I am not talking about social media. Okay. There are other ways to market books that are much more effective than social media. Social media is like this greeting. Hi, how are you? You don’t go, hi, how are you stranger? Buy my book. They’re not going to buy your book. Right.

Janyre Tromp [00:28:43]:
So it’s just this introduction thing. So there are other better ways to sell your book. And most of my nonfiction friends are awesome with those things, with writing, little blogs, little newsletters, speaking. All of those things are much better, much more effective ways of selling a book than social media, right? So people that have this access to these niche markets, they are a hundred percent amazing self publishing authors, amazing. And because they’re tightly woven into their niche market, they’ll probably find more than one book because when they’re out of that speaking engagement, somebody’s going to say to them, this book is awesome, but could you do one like this? Right? And so then that you have more than one booking, okay? So those people definitely self publish, okay?

Rejection as Redirection

Janyre Tromp [00:29:37]:
And you might not know whether you, whether a traditional publisher will love you or not until you kind of explore it and see. And that’s okay too, okay? Don’t be afraid of rejection in this industry. It’s not, it’s not. It is a.

Janyre Tromp [00:29:55]:
Like a diversion to another path. It is not like the end of the road, okay? So think of it like, you know, stepping into a stream and diverting the stream to somewhere else rather than completely blocking the flow, okay? So people who should definitely traditionally publish.

Goals That Fit Traditional Publishing

Janyre Tromp [00:30:13]:
I hesitate to say that there are anybody that should definitely traditionally publish, okay? Because a lot of the people who are very good at, at traditional publishing would also be good at self publishing. So to some extent, it depends on what you as an author want, what your goals are, what you hope to accomplish. If you want to hit the New York Times bestseller list as a nonfiction author, your most likely avenue is traditional publishing, okay? Maybe that’s your goal, okay, maybe…I don’t know. I mean, that’s whatever your goals are, there are some that are more reachable through traditional publishing than through self publishing.

Patience, Marketing, and Long Timelines

Janyre Tromp [00:31:05]:
If you are completely uncomfortable with marketing in any way, shape or form, you are not going to find your answer in the traditionally published world. You’re not. They still expect you to market your book. And so my advice to you is learn one thing at a time. Go back to that little baby steps, okay? Do the thing that you’re most comfortable with and tackle that and learn that and then see what the next little step is and push a little bit more. Publishing is definitely a long term goal kind of situation. The industry, we joke it is a hurry up and wait kind of industry. The traditionally published world, it can take from the point that a publisher accepts your manuscript to the point that it’s published is, can be two years, it’s insanely long.

Janyre Tromp [00:31:57]:
And that’s kind of an average like that’s pretty normal, you know, two to three years. Very normal length of time between contract and publishing.

Speed-to-Market Advantages of Indie

Ann Kroeker [00:32:07]:
So speed. Speed to I need to get my book out. It’s.

Janyre Tromp [00:32:10]:
Yes.

Ann Kroeker [00:32:11]:
Then that would be another reason to consider going this other path.

Janyre Tromp [00:32:14]:
Absolutely, absolutely. So if you suddenly had an idea.

Janyre Tromp [00:32:20]:
And, and how I chose the first book. So I’m the full disclosure. I’m publishing four books in the next two years and I have some of them that are finished. So I wanted to start with those because that, you know, obviously makes sense. It makes it way easier for me. I can publish them more quickly. But how I chose the first one. I’m a historical suspense novelist.

Janyre Tromp [00:32:42]:
So the 2026 is the 50 year anniversary of the events in one of my books. So you better believe that that book is releasing in 2026.

Ann Kroeker [00:32:52]:
Smart.

Janyre Tromp [00:32:53]:
Right. So I’m taking advantage of a newsworthy element and publishing my book in that time period. Yes, this is a great. It’s a great reason.

Audience-Specific Craft Considerations

Ann Kroeker [00:33:04]:
And you would not…there’s no way a publisher, traditional publisher can meet that timeline.

Janyre Tromp [00:33:08]:
Never. They would never be able to do it. So, so there’s. There are a lot of reasons. The traditional publishing world topically is pretty narrow. How things are approached is pretty narrow. And if you kind of do some research on your area and again knowing your target audience, it will tell you what you can and cannot do and get away with in the traditionally published world. So if you are writing for grandparents, for example, there are very.

Janyre Tromp [00:33:43]:
This is going to sound so weird. There are rules. There are rules about writing for certain generations and, and, and as an author I know you probably don’t know them off the top of your head, but I’ve been in the industry for a really long time so I happen to know them and it’s all based on market research and so crazy things like…the older the audience, the longer your chapters can be. The younger your audience, the shorter your chapters or there needs to be space between headers, there needs to be language. How you talk to people changes based on the generation that you’re talking to or male and female.

Janyre Tromp [00:34:29]:
And again these are broad stroke like wildly broad stroked, you know, concepts. And so sometimes your niche market doesn’t fit these prescribed ideas of what is going to work. The really interesting thing right now that I just have to say.

Indie Trends Influencing Traditional Publishing

Janyre Tromp [00:34:48]:
We’re starting to see the indie world influencing the traditionally published world. That is how powerful indie publishing is right now. So we are seeing this huge surge. I don’t write in this, not necessarily recommending this, but Romantasy, okay, so Romantasy started as an indie published whole genre. That is something that is super, super hot in the traditionally published world right now. And so you see actually the indie world pushing back on the constraints of the general market and saying, no, we know what our readers want. Again, I don’t recommend her. But Colleen Hoover was writing in the.

Janyre Tromp [00:35:29]:
Well, I, it’s not that I don’t recommend her. I’m not saying go read Colleen Hoover and if you know anything about her, you will know why I’m saying that she’s a little spicy, y’all.

Janyre Tromp [00:35:41]:
But she published for a decade as an indie author before her first book was ever published in the traditional world. And the reason that the traditional world was interested in her was because she was already selling books. She was already selling books.

Indie Sales Thresholds and Platform Considerations

Ann Kroeker [00:35:56]:
So a person who chooses the indie path, and I’m just one, just want to pause for clarity. Indie equals self publishing to you. Okay, so she’s indie publishing, but we, we could also call that self publishing. She did that for you say a decade, but she was selling books and that made her interesting to traditional publishing. So if I self publish or indie publish and I don’t sell very many books, could you throw out a number of what you think that, what would be not very many books?

Janyre Tromp [00:36:25]:
It depends on your genre. So a number that I hear often in the traditionally published space, especially in the Christian market, general market is actually less concerned about platform, weirdly than the Christian market. The Christian market, if you’re writing nonfiction, it’s 10,000 followers.

Ann Kroeker [00:36:44]:
Correct.

Janyre Tromp [00:36:51]:
Correct.

Ann Kroeker [00:36:52]:
But If I sold 10,000 copies of my book, I would probably not be interested in going back.

Janyre Tromp [00:36:57]:
Exactly. And that’s, and that’s, that’s, that’s what’s so crazy about this, this whole world. So the only, the only advantage. Okay, I shouldn’t say that. One of the biggest advantages to traditionally published world is distribution.

Distribution vs Goals: Choosing Your Path

Janyre Tromp [00:37:16]:
So again, it’s getting your books into a bookstore is. And libraries, traditionally libraries and bookstores are hard for indies to break into. They’re harder for indies to. And so again, it depends on what your goals are as to whether you want to traditionally publish or self publish. So because like what you were talking about, like the number of books that you would have to sell in order for a traditional publisher to be interested. If you are thinking, well, maybe I want to traditionally publish, my advice is to try the traditional publishing path first. Okay. And that is because they’re harder to get into. So you have to have a little patience. But the reason is, is because an unproven author has more capability of breaking in than an author who’s proven that they cannot sell. Right?

Ann Kroeker [00:38:15]:
Because again, evidence yet.

Janyre Tromp [00:38:17]:
Right. There’s no evidence for. Or again, but if you walk in with evidence against, it’s going to make it harder for you to sell your book.

Ann Kroeker [00:38:24]:
Because I use the term dismal sales, don’t they?

Janyre Tromp [00:38:27]:
Yes, they do. Dismal sales. It stinks. But it’s. That’s just the nature of the beast. Because again, traditional publishers aren’t going to relieve you of your responsibility in their minds to market your book. Yep.

Clarifying “Hybrid” Author vs Hybrid Publishing

Ann Kroeker [00:38:44]:
Okay, so quick question about you. You refer to yourself as a hybrid author, but that does not mean hybrid publishing. And I think that is a. A little naming issue that we have in this space. Is that a hybrid. By hybrid author, you mean that you’re both traditionally and self published, indie published, but there are hybrid publishers out there. How would you. I’ll let you have the honor of describing a hybrid publisher and you can tell me whether or not you would recommend that path.

Defining Vanity, Hybrid, and Self-Publishing

Janyre Tromp [00:39:13]:
Yep. So there’s actually a couple of different things I’m going to go ahead and define right now. So there are vanity presses and vanity presses, you pay them to publish your book. If you are going that route. I am. I am not going to say you should or shouldn’t do a vanity press. They tend to be kind of expensive, but. But they should give you everything you need in order to publish.

Janyre Tromp [00:39:40]:
My recommendation there is, go find other authors that have been published by them, especially if they’re promising marketing. Make sure that their marketing is actually effective, that they actually are doing things that will help you sell your book. Okay. Because again, the marketing piece of publishing is probably one of the hardest pieces to get your arms around and be effective in because the target markets change for every single book that’s out there. Okay. So.

Janyre Tromp [00:40:11]:
Van, they’re called vanity presses. I kind of hate that name, frankly.

Janyre Tromp [00:40:16]:
But basically somebody that you’re going to pay to do everything for you. Okay. Then you have hybrid presses. And hybrid presses, you pay a portion.

Janyre Tromp [00:40:28]:
Of the costs involved in.

Janyre Tromp [00:40:32]:
In hiring an editor and a cover designer and doing the interior layouts and the marketing. But you also get, and it should be a pretty high percentage of the. The royalties. Okay. So in essence, you’re splitting the cost in the royalties with the publisher. Okay. Again, make sure that you are getting a high Quality hybrid publisher. Because hybrid publishers.

Janyre Tromp [00:41:01]:
If you are, if you are paying a bunch of money in and you’re not getting quality back.

Janyre Tromp [00:41:07]:
You’re you getting 50% of the royalties or 60% of the royalties, is it worth it? Because you weren’t selling any books, right? So just make sure that you are giving away part of your rights is worth it. There’s actually an association and I can send that to you. And I just can’t think of it off the top of my head for hybrid publishers. So you can kind of go in and vet to some degree your potential hybrid publisher, okay.

Janyre Tromp: Or get recommendations from other authors. Other authors are prime real estate for getting recommendations for pretty much anything across the board, from agents and editors on the publishing, the traditionally publishing side, to anything you want to do on the indie side. So you have the hybrid and then you have self publishing, which is different than all of those other ones. Um, because you are, you are.

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The General Contractor Analogy

Janyre Tromp [00:41:59]:
It’s like a general contractor. This is a perfect explanation if you know anything about building.

Janyre Tromp [00:42:06]:
A general contractor is the person that kind of hires everybody and keeps track of everything, and you kind of figure everything out. And so a hybrid publisher and a vanity press become kind of like your general contractor, right? And they kind of control everything, they figure everything out, they hire everybody.

Janyre Tromp [00:42:26]:
And then you’re the client. So you kind of can give them a little bit of direction, but ultimately they kind of figure everything out. When you move to self publishing, you are the general contractor, okay? So you get to decide everything. You get to decide what your budget is, you get to decide where you’re going to concentrate, you decide who you’re going to hire and figure everything out, okay? But then you get all of the proceeds. You don’t have to split it with anybody, right? And then traditionally published is like moving into a condominium. You get what you get, you pay for, you know, you. It kinda, I mean, not exactly, but you don’t have a lot of say in everything. Most traditional publishers can change your title and your cover and your content with or without your permission or agreement.

Janyre Tromp [00:43:19]:
So you are giving them the right to all of those things. So if you have strong feelings, that’s another good reason to self publish. If you have strong feelings about what you want your book to look like or sound like, traditional publishing may not be for you, and that’s okay.

Janyre Tromp [00:43:34]:
But again, if it, but if you don’t know what in the world. I don’t know, I don’t know what kind of COVID I want on there, then you know Traditionally, publishing may be a great place for you. Right?

Advances vs Royalties: How Traditional Deals Vary

Janyre Tromp [00:43:44]:
So that’s kind of the range in there. And by the way, traditional publishers, there’s different kinds of tradition. Traditional publishers as well, there’s. And traditional publishers pay you to publish your book. Some of them will pay you up front with an advance, but that’s an advance against royalties, which means you have to pay that money back.

Janyre Tromp [00:44:08]:
Through what you earn in your royalties. And then you have some that are straight royalties publishers, which means that you don’t get an advance, you don’t get paid up front, but you typically get a higher percentage of the royalties as they come in.

Janyre Tromp [00:44:26]:
So you know like a 40 to 60% royalty rate, 30 to 60, maybe even royalty rate from royalty only publishers. And with a, with a, with an advance, with a publisher that pays in advance, you’re looking at like 15 to 20% royalties.

Coaching and Done-With-You Support

Ann Kroeker [00:44:47]:
So many options. How about. Have you heard of self-publishing, I guess support or coaching where they will help you figure it all out, but you will still, you’ll buy your own ISBN from Bowker unless you’re in Canada and you get it for free. And you will do all of the steps and they’ll coach you through that and then they just helped you make the book. How do you feel about that option?

Janyre Tromp [00:45:12]:
So I’m actually in the process of putting something similar to what you’re describing together with a friend of mine, between us we have like almost. I, I would have to do the math math and I, no, I’m actually decent. But probably we’re about 80 years at this point between the two of us in the, in the traditionally published space. And then we’re both hybrid authors who, we both publish traditionally and self-published.

Janyre Tromp [00:45:39]:
But if you’re hiring services from somebody, again, just make sure they’re reputable. Make sure, make sure you’re asking for references. Make sure you look at the products that they have produced and see if it’s what you want from your book. Make sure that they are specialists or have familiarity with your genre.

Janyre Tromp: If you are publishing a book for parents and you go to a group that has only done fantasy, you might not be happy with the product that they produce because they’re used to producing, you know, fan, even covers. Fantasy covers are very different than parenting. Yes, they’re as far apart, I think as you can get in the—well, maybe grandparents and fantasy are further apart. But you know what I’m saying, like there’s, there’s a lot of nuance and expertise that goes into a lot of the different areas. Like, I would never touch a kid’s book, never.

Janyre Tromp [00:46:37]:
Because I don’t know that I, I don’t know that industry. And so if I, I do and I have, when somebody comes to me and says, oh, I had this kid’s picture book, I’m like, I am not your person. Here’s a list of people to contact because they know that industry and I do not. That’s good.

Vetting Partners through Real-World References

Ann Kroeker [00:46:56]:
So, you know your limits. And you’re looking for that. Yeah, you’re looking for the people who can help you best. So best. I really love the idea. I tell all my clients this as well, is go look at the publishers, authors they’ve worked with and not just the ones who’ve given the testimonials and then go start reaching out and asking them if they’d be willing to share a little bit about their experience so they can hopefully get, you know, real, real on the ground report on what it was like to work with that publisher. Chances are they’ll be, you know, kind and generous and not, I don’t know, not try to throw them under the bus if they had a bad experience. But I think that’s the, that’s one of the things that can help you vet your choices.

Balancing Indie Advocacy with Traditional Relationships

Ann Kroeker [00:47:40]:
And all this talk, I keep wondering with you, like if you’re one of your traditional publishers, was to listen to this conversation. Do you ever feel like you’re burning bridges with this new path forward wholeheartedly into indie publishing?

Janyre Tromp [00:47:58]:
No. Because there are people who are better off traditionally publishing. I am in, I recognize that I am in a unique situation where I have already built contacts, I already have people who I can call to help me. And part of that was my traditionally published journey. And I am very careful not to bad mouth.

Janyre Tromp [00:48:23]:
The publishers that I’ve worked with in the past. I still, I actually freelance edit for traditional publishers. And I will tell you that the manuscripts coming through those publishers are a higher quality than I typically see coming through from my self publishing clients. And part of that is just there is a vetting system with traditional publishers. And do I get my self publishing clients up to a different standard? A hundred million percent? I do because I’m a professional and I’m not going to let you go out there and publish something that isn’t amazing. But there is a difference. There is a difference. And there are a lot of publishers that know their client or their target market very well. Very well.

Janyre Tromp [00:49:09]:
And I don’t know that I’m comfortable like doing a comparison, but there are a lot of publishers I work for that move a lot of books and they don’t bring in things—they don’t bring in books and authors—that they don’t believe they can sell. And that’s, that’s great for both the publisher and the author. But then for everybody else that doesn’t have a home and doesn’t have a spot.

Indie as a Viable Home for Many Authors

Janyre Tromp [00:49:34]:
Self publishing is a great avenue. It really is. And again, you have to be comfortable, you have to be comfortable with doing a lot yourself. You have to be comfortable stepping into that space and sometimes it takes a little while to get there and that’s an okay too. So, you know, I fully believe in the traditionally publishing world. I fully believe in supporting our bookstores. I have a lot of local bookstores in my area. I’m immensely blessed.

Local Bookstore Ecosystems

Janyre Tromp [00:50:08]:
I’ve got several really good indie ABA general market stores and one of the best CBA stores just down the road from me. Like within an hour radius, I think, I think there might be like 15 or 20 indie stores and a 15 to 20 mile radius that’s in addition to all the Barnes and Nobles.

Ann Kroeker [00:50:28]:
Wow.

Janyre Tromp [00:50:29]:
Where I live is crazy about books.

Ann Kroeker [00:50:31]:
And CBA, for people who don’t know, stands for Christian Booksellers Association, which used to be an entity, doesn’t technically exist anymore, but we still refer to it.

Janyre Tromp [00:50:39]:
Right, right. Yeah, it’s still, it’s still considered the, the Christian Booksellers Association is still considered the industry term, but that the organization as.

Industry Disruption and Format Evolution

Ann Kroeker [00:50:50]:
And so do you feel like the people have talked about traditional publishing is going to be transformed by. First it was ebooks, now audiobooks, and now the, now the self publishing craze. Oh, it’s never going to be the same. It’s being disrupted over and over again and then it just continues to, you know, continue on. But it does change. And that the staff is, is, there’s a lot of layoffs. There’s, they’re going with a really minimalist approach. It seems like from what I’m hearing, I’m not in that.

Ann Kroeker [00:51:21]:
I’m not technically in the industry, but I’m watching it. Like Jane Friedman, I’m learning from her as well.

Janyre Tromp [00:51:50]:
I think, I think it’s going to shake out. I think everybody’s going to find their space. The panic about new, new technology like goes way back. I mean, you skipped radio. Like radio was going to destroy everything. You know, nobody was going to listen to the news anymore. Nobody was going to read the news. Newspapers have shifted, everything’s gone online.

Janyre Tromp [00:52:11]:
Is it the same format? Nope. But we’ve figured it out and we’ve shifted. We’re still consuming information in and it looks different. I mean audiobooks are like a total game changer for, for busy moms with full time jobs and you know, all the things. And so it gives me the, the place where I can still get a lot of reading done, but I’m not sitting still. I’m making dinner.

Audiobooks and Language Benefits

Ann Kroeker [00:52:41]:
As a commuter, runner. I mean, so many different people.

Janyre Tromp [00:52:44]:
Exactly.

Ann Kroeker [00:52:45]:
Yeah.

Janyre Tromp [00:52:45]:
When I work out, I’m lifting, you know, I’m not looking at the words individually on a page, but I am still reading. And there’s a whole bunch of really interesting research about the benefits to people who, who already know how to read. So emerging readers, this does not apply to them. But for those of us who already know how to read and are very proficient read, listening to books actually helps us with our expansion of language and language usage as well as paying attention to and learning sentence structure more than reading on a printed page. Because we skim read when we read on a printed page. But with audiobooks you’re forced to listen to every single word. Right.

Ann Kroeker [00:53:35]:
That makes so much sense to me. Of course, yes.

Janyre Tromp [00:53:38]:
So it’s a very interesting thing where they both have their benefits. It’s like a teacher sitting in front of class reading a book to the, to the class. There’s a reason that they do that and they’ve done that since I was a little girl.

Books as Artifacts and the P&L Mindset

Ann Kroeker [00:53:52]:
But I hear what you’re saying, like the written word is persisting. These new formats are simply giving us more options to have stories told to us to learn new ideas, to share, share new ideas. But then we can, for now, we’ll always seems like be returning to the printed page as the core, the core thing. And I like to tell people who are building a business especially, but really so many people that they can look at the book that we’re talking, I’m talking now back to indie publishing. The money you’re investing in making this thing. Seth Godin might call it an artifact, physical book, but arguably an ebook. You know, it’s not an artifact anymore, but it’s a thing you’re making that. Once it’s made, once you put all that money in to make it, you’re, that part’s done.

Ann Kroeker [00:54:38]:
You invest in yourself, you invest in this idea, you invest in these readers that you’re going to reach and then you have this thing. And from that point on, it’s all about getting it to the reader, the intended reader, to change their lives and let them be transformed, to entertain, to whatever the purpose is of the book. And so therefore, if you can just, I mean, run your profit and loss statement, the pianic, create your P&L. By the way, Jane Friedman has a nice place you can start. You can download or make a copy of hers in a Google sheet and you can. It’s a nice starting place for those who don’t know what that is. You can learn more about that. I’ll give, I’ll provide the link.

Ann Kroeker [00:55:11]:
But anyway, the point is try to figure out how many book sell sales you can make with whatever your plan is. If you’re a business person, you might think about speaking and that kind of thing, but once it’s made, it’s made. And so then from that point forward is all moving toward getting you that profit instead of the loss.

IP Expansion Beyond the Book

Janyre Tromp [00:55:30]:
And there are so many. We call, I call it intellectual property. Right, right. Intellectual property that’s in existence. There’s so much you can do with that. And it’s not just a book or an ebook or even.

Ann Kroeker [00:55:41]:
It’s a course, it’s a talk, it’s a consulting process, it’s a framework. That’s yours. I’m hearing so much about IP from a legal standpoint as well as looking ahead to what you’re creating to make sure those things are in your contract. You don’t want to lose control of that. Gosh, this has been such an incredible conversation and you’ve helped open my eyes. And I hope everybody who’s tuning in too, I hope you’re opening their eyes to start thinking a little differently about their publishing path and seeing possibility where they may have been just looking at it as too daunting to undertake on their own. Thank you for having this conversation.

Janyre Tromp [00:56:19]:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

How to Connect with Janyre

Ann Kroeker [00:56:21]:
How can people get to know you better and learn what you have to offer?

Janyre Tromp [00:56:24]:
Absolutely. So I have jokingly say if you can spell my name, you can find me, Janyre Tromp.

Janyre Tromp [00:56:31]:
So I am Janyre Trump, all over social media, LinkedIn.

Janyre Tromp [00:56:36]:
Instagram, I’m attempting TikTok, y’all. I’m working on it, but that’s my website, my author website, and then I spell your name it is J A N Y R E and then my last name, T R O M P. So my web address is JanyreTromp.com. You can also find me at EditingInsiders.com and that is my editing world. And then I actually run a free Facebook group for folks to just ask general editing questions. Anything from where do I put this comma to can you give us an idea of how to write a hook? And so I answer those questions. It’s totally free because I have a heart for all of the authors that are out there in this world.

Janyre Tromp [00:57:29]:
It is a crazy industry and it is constantly changing. Ann, you and I have a very similar passion for authors where we just want to help you guys. And so I would love to hang out with you wherever you want to hang out with with me if you want to see pretty pictures. And Instagram is kind of my happy place. So if you want to hang out with me, that’s where I am most often.

Closing and Invitation

Ann Kroeker [00:57:51]:
So Janyre’s energy is so motivating. Aren’t you ready to just finish your book and head out on your publishing journey now? I have a little something that could help with that, especially if you’re in the early stages of developing your books concept. It’s called Craft your Books Big Idea. It’s a free three day challenge you can sign up for for move through at your own pace and develop your book’s big idea. Whether you self publish or traditionally publish, you do need to lock in an idea that pops. Head over to annkroeker.com/3day. That’s AnnKroeker.com…3—the numeral 3—day to get started right away. I’m Ann Kroeker, cheering you on as a writing coach in your ears everywhere.

Ann Kroeker [00:58:29]:
We may meet at my website, on the podcast, in your inbox, or even in person. I’m always, always looking for ideas to share with you that will help you achieve your goals and have fun by being more curious, creative and productive. Thanks for being here.

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When I ask my doctor a medical question, she’s my expert. Her advice is authoritative, based on years of training to diagnose the problem and guide me to a solution.

When I meet with colleagues in my peer mastermind group, their advice comes from challenges they’ve overcome and insights they’re ready to share.

They know their role in my life and interact with me in an appropriate tone. The same is true for us as writers: understanding our role in readers’ lives helps us connect with them and interact with ease.

Matching Your Role to Your Reader

Ask yourself: Am I speaking to my reader like a friend, a formal expert, or a fellow traveler? 

Now ask yourself: Is that the right role? Because your answer drives your writing choices.

Some of my clients struggled with their manuscripts until they realized a mismatch. For example, some were writing in the tone of a chummy friend when their role is more accurately that of a coach or advisor on the page.

When they figured that out, they easily structured their writing. Examples, word choice—even paragraph length—fell into place. When your role aligns with your readers’ expectations, your writing becomes more intuitive. Land on your role and you’ll unlock your most authentic (and effective) voice.

Three Writers Who Got It Right

Over the years, I’ve noted how three writers approached this themselves: Anne Bogel, Annie F. Downs, and Lysa TerKeurst. They all refined their approach by dialing in their role in their readers’ lives.

Anne Bogel: “A Friend Who Knows Some Things”

In a podcast episode I listened to years ago (this is going by memory, because I can’t find the original¹), Anne Bogel said to Annie F. Downs that she struggled with finding the right voice or tone for one of her books.

She thought maybe she was writing as a “friend,” but realized, “I do know some things.” She decided a better role in her reader’s life would be, “A friend who knows some things.”

Anne lived with that for a few days or weeks, and that felt like a fit. When she landed on that role of “a friend who knows some things,” the writing flowed and she could see how to connect with her readers on the page.

If your readers view you as a knowledgeable friend, write in a way that feels both relatable and informed instead of formal and authoritative or too chummy. Share enough insight to establish credibility while maintaining a conversational, friendly tone.

Annie F. Downs: “Coffee with a Friend”

Annie F. Downs responded that her role is consistent with the brand she’d built, which she framed as: “I’m a friend you have coffee with…and sometimes we talk about Jesus.” This worked for her podcast, her books, and, presumably, her actual conversations over coffee. She understood how readers viewed her and could speak, write, and interact in a way that matched.

If that’s you, you can embrace the coffee-with-a-friend vibe by leaning into conversational writing geared for one specific person: put your reader at ease with personal anecdotes, drop in an occasional sentence fragment, create a parenthetical aside (like leaning in to whisper across the table at coffee), and don’t shy away from humor or vulnerability…because that’s what we would do if we were having coffee with a friend.

Lysa TerKeurst: Four Voices to Consider

Lysa TerKeurst takes this idea of roles a step further in an interview with Carey Nieuwhof, offering four “voices” authors can adopt to better understand and refine the way they connect and communicate with their audiences²:

• The Tower Voice: Sage-like authority telling you what you should/shouldn’t do (without personally opening up much). Best for readers seeking clarity or research insight from a trusted source. Peter Attia and Malcolm Gladwell fit this Tower Voice.
• The Teacher Voice: Research-backed advice with relatable vulnerability; often an instructor, teacher, or coach who suggests and guides without commanding. Brené Brown combines research with personal experience, confident in her teaching while modeling the vulnerability she’s known for.
• The In-the-Field Voice: Fellow traveler guiding readers through a shared experience. This is Lysa’s favorite, where she comes alongside readers to say, “Together, we can.” Glennon Doyle and Anne Lamott write with this sometimes messy tone, yet on the page, they manage to guide readers to a successful outcome.
• The In-the-Pit Voice: Emotional venting without solutions—avoid this when you’re disconnected from any kind of resolution. Everyone struggles, but if you’re in the pit, wait until you discover how to climb out before writing to an audience about the experience.

Discovering Your Role

To discover your role in your readers’ lives, think about the last few pieces you wrote. What role did you assume for your audience? Are you a subject matter expert, knowledgeable friend, a guide in the field, or a teacher offering insights?

Here are a few questions to help you think it through:

• Do your readers see you as a chummy friend who knows about a topic? Sounds like you’re a friend you’d have coffee with or a friend who knows some things. Focus on a warm, conversational style with relatable examples.
• Do readers come to you for authoritative, research-backed advice? You may be a Tower Voice. You can structure your writing on research, logic, and clear argumentation…and maybe a slightly more formal style.
• Do you share lessons from challenges you’ve overcome? That could be a Teacher Voice. If so, blend personal insights with frameworks or practical takeaways.
• Do you write as though you’re navigating struggles alongside your readers? That’s an In-the-Field Voice. Focus on shared experiences; vulnerability builds trust as you lead them to a positive outcome.
• Are you stuck in your struggle, inviting others to struggle with you, without offering hope or solutions? You might be In-the-Pit. Lysa recommends you pause before publishing and focus on getting out of the pit before writing about it. (I recommend that, too!)

If you’re unsure about your role, try this: Write one paragraph from a Tower Voice, starting with “Research shows…” Then rewrite it as an In-the-Field Voice: “When I struggled with this last year, I…”

Read both aloud. Which one feels like you?

Matching Writing Choices to Role

Study your examples, tone, and word choices, and ask if they suit you…and your readers.

Does formal, jargon-heavy language feel natural for you? If not, maybe you’re trying to write from the Tower when you belong in the Teacher or In-the-Field role.

Adjust your tone and try more conversational techniques: use contractions, engage with personal anecdotes, toss in an occasional sentence fragment, or share a vulnerable story. Pay attention to how your readers respond.

Write, publish, adjust, until you realize who you are in their lives.

Whether your readers are highlighting your book’s insights or relating to the shortcomings you share, your readers do see you in a role—you just need to figure out which one. Once you do, you’ll connect with readers better than ever and your writing will flow onto the page.

Footnote:

1. If this interaction sounds familiar and you remember the source, please contact me so I can update this post and add the citation.
2. Nieuwhof, Carey, host. “CNLP 327: Lysa TerKeurst on How to 10x Your Audience, Craft Messages that Actually Connect with People, and Discover Which Voice You Have as a Communicator.” The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast, Mar. 2020, https://careynieuwhof.com/episode327/. Accessed 29 Nov. 2025.

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“Research is formalized curiosity. It is poking and prying with a purpose.”¹ —Zora Neale Hurston

One of the greatest gifts (aside from life itself) I received from my parents was the gift of curiosity. Two trained journalists by trade, they lived out their curiosity by exploring all kinds of topics. I stood at their side as they asked questions of anyone, anywhere: neighbors, waitresses, nurses, Depression glass experts in Chicago, farmers at the feed store.

Research as Relationship Building

Dad was a “gentleman farmer,” as he called himself, meaning, he had a full-time job as an editor at our major metropolitan newspaper and tended a small herd of beef cattle on the farm where I grew up (he leased the fields to real farmers).

His research involved clipping articles from Farm Journal, talking with experts at the Purdue Extension service over at the 4-H fairgrounds, and chatting for hours with farmer Bob down the road about tractor repair, weather, crops, hay, and the best electric fence wire to keep the cows contained.

Mom would contact and interview people for articles—complete strangers—on whatever event or topic she needed to know about. Editor of a county paper, Mom wouldn’t hesitate to pick up the phone and dial the sheriff’s department or the bank president to inquire about a complaint someone phoned in with or something she noticed on her drive home.

She also wrote the weekly arts and antiques column for the main Sunday paper. People would send in photographs of their item, wondering what it was and if it was worth anything. This was long before Antiques Roadshow or the Internet, so she would pore over books from the library and any other information she could dig up there, often phoning experts all around the world, from historians at the Smithsonian to Depression glass experts in Chicago.

She herself grew as curious as the person who submitted their question, but she liked getting paid for it, so she called it research and wrote about her findings. She sought answers to questions and showed no fear in reaching out for answers. She lived out Zora Neale Hurston’s belief: “Research is formalized curiosity. It is poking and prying with a purpose.”²

Growing Up a Researcher

With those role models, I grew up curious in my own way. Mom encouraged my interest in nature, helped me collect tadpoles from a pond on the farm—including extra pond water that would have the nutrients and environment to replenish the old glass tank I set up on the picnic table in the back yard. She wanted me to see the tadpoles sprout legs and grow into full-fledged frogs. Maybe she was a little curious, too, and we both watched with interest in our homegrown research lab.

A few years later, she granted permission for me to collect crickets and house them in that same old aquarium in my bedroom; it no longer held water but could contain land critters. To keep the noisy collection alive, I read from a library book about the care and keeping of crickets. The library had books that could satisfy my curiosity about almost anything that piqued my interest. I was curious about cooking and crocheting, yo-yo’s and yoga. The library became the perfect place for budding writers like myself to conduct research.

In time, I left behind the crickets and tadpoles (released to their original habitats) but carried those research skills into adulthood. I understood how librarians could track down information in ways I couldn’t (and their research skills and tools exceeded mine). I interviewed people for freelance articles, learning that people enjoy answering questions related to their area of expertise.

When the Internet opened up loads more ways to hunt and gather information, Mom and I both continued to follow our interests, “formalizing our curiosity” by labeling it “research.” Whatever we wondered about, we could dive in and search for answers. We used it for our writing projects, as well, because Mom continued to write freelance articles for years.

We ran into dead ends sometimes, but we could tap those original research skills like scouring the library or conducting interviews. We didn’t hesitate tracking down a phone number to speak with someone who might have the answers we sought.

Research options and tools keep evolving. LLMs (Large Language Models, like ChatGPT) and chatbots give us new ways to start our searches (always verify, as they continue to hallucinate). And research needs for different projects often dramatically differ.

Standing Out in the Age of AI: The Power of Human-Driven Research

In the end, though, curiosity can drive our research. Asking what we (and our reader) want or need to know can get us to the next piece of information or example we need for our project:

• Now that I’ve introduced the reader to the medicinal nature of honey, what would they want next? An example of how it was successfully used to treat something? Where would I find that?
• When the reader learns where the heist took place, will they first want to know how the thieves escaped or the value of what they stole? Should I phone an art dealer or an historian for that information, or the police?
• What type of permit is needed to alter structures of historic significance before renovating? What happens if the permit isn’t acquired but the organization starts renovation anyway?
• Would the reader care most about the effectiveness of lightning rods or the history of lightning rods? What stories of lightning rods working or failing would engage the reader most and should those launch the piece or follow the history?

As I put together a project, following my curiosity by putting myself in the shoes of my ideal reader, I find it deeply rewarding to find the information I need and present it in the order that will lead readers from start to finish. And heaven knows I love any excuse to hang out at the library, dipping into studies and stories to find what I need.

Even for this very piece I’m writing for you, I had to track down the source for the Zora Neale Hurston quote. When I finally found it, you’d think I’d turned up a gold nugget in a stream of stones. I sighed with satisfaction, for sure, and I might have stood up and danced a little jig.

Finding Fresh Sources

You don’t need to rely on the same old information everyone else is getting through ChatGPT or Internet searches. Poke and pry to track down trustworthy answers available through emailing an expert. Quote from recent studies, personal interviews, and original materials like correspondence or diaries. Follow your curiosity.

Even for a blog post or freelance article, you can dive and dig into unexpected sources as you research. Your work will stand out in the age of AI, because LLMs are limited to the input on which they trained.

We curious writers can access sources they don’t know about and write real stuff, not auto-generated content pulling from the same-o sources as everyone else. Unlike machine writing, you’ll drop in nonstandard but striking examples. And you’ll be proud of your original research, even if it took a little extra time to document.

At any age, on any topic, whether at the library or through direct interaction with experts, curiosity leads us to explore and present ideas supported by human-driven research that can enrich whatever it is we want to know more about and share with others, for our writing and our life.

Further Reading

• Why Writers Get Lost in Research (And How to Find Your Way Back)
• Save Time and Headaches: Create Citations as You Write
• The Case for Citation
• Cultivate Curiosity for Your Best Writing Life, Pillar One
• Dip into Your Story Hatchery Where Memories Transform into Narratives (tadpole story)

Footnote

1. Zora Neale Hurston, Dust Tracks on a Road (New York: HarperPerennial / Modern Classics, 1996), 143
2. Ibid.

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• Real-life proof from your writing coach that your writing life can expand in tiny openings

I once worked on a personal essay involving my childhood bedroom but couldn’t remember the wallpaper pattern. How could I forget it, after staring at it all those years? Was the background yellow, cream, or off-white? Were all the flowers yellow or were there light orange ones too?

I spent a ridiculous amount of time digging through family photos and storage boxes. I had to put that niggling question to rest before I could move forward…at least, I felt like I did. Maybe I was putting off the writing and this was a diversion?

Eventually, I captured a closeup of the pattern (it was, by the way, an off-white background with small yellow and orange flowers among tan stems and green leaves).

Did that detail matter? I could have made an educated guess and focused on the narrative instead. I wonder if the time I lost to that research mattered more? I tumbled into the rabbit hole of family history when I could have dedicated those hours to advancing my word count. Instead of flipping through albums, I could have gotten close to a completed essay.

Integrated Research Strengthens Writing

We must discern on a case-by-case basis if our research has shifted from essential-to-the-piece to a delay tactic, but I think we’d agree that thoughtful research does strengthen our writing. Specific details—even as minor as that floral wallpaper—invite readers into a scene.

And researching those details can add more than accurate scene-setting. A faded pattern contributes to mood. Cheerful flowers contrasting with a sad memory creates irony. Specificity builds both atmosphere and credibility. Now is it worth the search?

When we make claims, we support those with studies, stories, historical facts, and statistics. In his narrative nonfiction book Rising from the Plains, John McPhee weaves geological facts with cultural history, and includes quotes from geologist David Love and Love’s mother’s colorful and story-driven personal journals. For a book on geography, that additional research keeps the nonfiction project from being merely expository by adding personal observations and personality.

Nonfiction writers also establish trust through precision, so we confirm place names, cross-reference dates, and verify original sources for quotes. It’s a way to build trust with the reader, so they take in the information without questioning our integrity. They can plainly see we’ve done the work.

For personal essays and memoir, we might call up our cousin and ask them to describe the feather bed in Grandma’s attic to see if it aligns with our own memory. Or we interview an aunt about the family trip to California and ask about the make of the car, the stops they made along the way, and arguments that stood out. Readers can tell we’ve researched the backstory, so they slip easily into the narrative of those projects.

And when we’re tasked with a project that depends on data, studies, and historical background, we call upon those who did the work before us. We include their ideas as we make claims because any insight we bring to the topic always layers on—even depends on—those who came before us.

As Isaac Newton wrote to Robert Hooke, “If I have seen further it is by standing on ye sholders of giants” (original spelling preserved).¹ Our writing builds on others’ wisdom. Their credibility enhances our own. Incorporating the expertise of “giants” deepens our work while inviting them into the conversation with us and, ultimately, with the reader.

To bring all of that to our work, we must figure out how to avoid scampering down research rabbit trails and falling down research rabbit holes as we dig for what we need.

7 Strategies for Focused Research

To research with intention and boundaries:

1. Begin with what you know – During the idea stage of your project, list what you already know and what you need to discover. You may still follow a few rabbit trails, but at least you’ve got a roadmap to start with (and come back to).
2. Use bracketed placeholders – When drafting, don’t stop the creative flow to research on the spot. Instead, add brackets, like [RESEARCH: confirm Newton quote] or [FIND: statistics on writer productivity], and keep writing.
3. One website at a time – Online research is convenient but distracting. Wikipedia footnotes lead us from one fascinating article to another, and next thing you know we’re reading about French pastries when we started out researching the German occupation during WWII. To stay focused, close all tabs and open only one at a time to take notes and create the citation.
4. Create a “parking lot” doc – When you discover a fascinating tangent, capture it in a separate file to explore later. It could spark a future piece, but if it’s unrelated it’s keeping you from the project at hand.
5. Ask this question – If you find yourself three clicks away from your original search or 75 pages into an unrelated book unearthed in search of a quote, pause and ask: “Does this serve my current project…or just my curiosity?” If it’s only satisfying curiosity, put it in the “parking lot” doc and return to it later.
6. Set research timers – Give yourself, like, 20 minutes to find that wallpaper pattern or confirm that quote. When the timer sounds, assess what you’ve found and decide if it’s sufficient. Then set aside the photo albums and turn back to the writing itself.
7. Use research management tools – Research can sprawl with notes all over the place. Consider corralling them in a note-taking app like Notion, research organizer like Scrivener or Obsidian, or citation manager like Zotero.

The Ongoing Conversation

Try these strategies to stay on track, because we do need that research to produce thoughtful work. Nonfiction writers do more than borrow authority when we research….we participate in an intellectual conversation with people from the past and present. At our best, we build on established knowledge while contributing something new—truly standing on the shoulders of giants.

We not only serve our readers when we incorporate others’ insights; we also grow intellectually. The information we unearth confirms our ideas are sound and connects us to like-minded thinkers across space and time.

The research rabbit hole can lead to serendipitous discoveries and be intellectually stimulating, but it can lead us away from the task at hand. When researching for writing, our efforts should enrich our work, not replace or distract from it.

So when you’ve found what you need, close the browser, shut the book, and return to writing. Your work will be richer for what you’ve discovered, but it won’t exist at all until you set fingers to keyboard and start typing.

For Further Reading:

• Trust Your Human-Driven Research for Standout Writing
• Save Time and Headaches: Create Citations as You Write
• The Case for Citation

Footnote:

1. “The correspondence of Isaac Newton : H.W. Turnbull, 1661-1675 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive.” Internet Archive, 24 Sept. 2025, archive.org/details/correspondenceof0001hwtu/page/416/mode/2up?q=416.

”

Award-winning author and editor Janyre Tromp joins the podcast for a deep dive into one of the most vital topics for writers: understanding your ideal audience. Drawing from her experience as both a traditionally and independently published author (as well as an editor and marketing expert), Janyre shares why zeroing in on your target audience—specifically your ideal reader—is essential for every writing project, whether you’re working on fiction, nonfiction, essays, or poetry.

Together, Janyre and I explore the difference between demographics and psychographics; how narrowing your audience isn’t about limiting your reach but about making real, meaningful connections; and practical ways to discover and engage the people who will resonate most with your work.

We also discuss common author pitfalls, tips for testing your ideas before you write that book-length manuscript, and how to grow your platform authentically—without burning out.

Find out why knowing your audience isn’t just a marketing move—it’s at the heart of effective, rewarding writing.

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:

• The difference between demographics and psychographics (and why felt needs matter most)
• How to use “real people” as your audience guide—beyond generic market profiles
• Why writing purely from your own perspective may miss your target audience (and what to do about it)
• Practical strategies for exploring and validating your audience—before you write the whole book
• The value and methods of “testing” your message on social media, in articles, or through speaking
• Smart ways to use outlines, chapter summaries, and comparative titles to clarify your audience
• Why platform-building is about genuine connection, not perfection or performance
• How to balance platform work with writing—plus batching, repurposing, and self-care tips from Janyre’s own practice
• Encouragement for embracing your unique voice and message, even when life or creativity feels overwhelming

Key Moments:

• Janyre’s multi-role background: Traditional/indie publishing, editing, and marketing
• Defining your ideal audience: From broad demographics to nuanced psychographics
• How emotion—not just facts—sells books and builds connection
• The role of social media as a “testing lab” for ideas and audience resonance
• Outlining, annotating, and revising to realign with your audience
• Using comparative titles and community spaces to get to know your readers
• Overcoming perfectionism and performance pressure as you build your platform
• Grace for the process—nobody does it all, and real people connect with real people

Memorable Quotes:

“Emotion sells a book. Facts do not sell books… That’s why you see a commercial, they’re appealing to an emotion, not a fact.”

“If you want to publish a book and help people, then you have to approach your book writing from that person’s perspective and write the book that they need, not the book that you want to write.”

“Social media is this lovely little lab where you can write about stuff and get immediate gratification of whether it works or not.”

“Go find your audience wherever they are and hang out with them… If you have a conversation with them that resonates, they’ll come hang out with you elsewhere too.”

“You have a message that only you can give. Don’t be afraid to step out into that and make those connections.”

Resources:

• Join Janyre’s upcoming YPM training: Your Platform Matters (YPM)
• Learn more about Janyre Tromp: janyretromp.com and Editing Insiders
• Free Facebook group for editing questions: Editing Insiders on Facebook
• This discussion pairs nicely with “Don’t Wait to Share Your Message“

Connect & Continue the Conversation

• Email Ann: annkroeker.com/contact
• Explore free & paid offerings: annkroeker.com/everything
• Get free coaching in your inbox: annkroeker.com/connect
• Follow Janyre Tromp: @janyretromp on Instagram, LinkedIn, and (newbie!) TikTok

Meet Janyre:

Janyre Tromp is an award-winning nonfiction and fiction editor with more than 20 years of experience in acquiring and editing books for traditional publishers and Indie authors. She also has an additional 10 years of experience in book marketing. She has worked with nearly a thousand books written by new and seasoned authors. All of which makes her uniquely suited to equip authors with the tools to help them navigate the quagmire.

She adores working with writers and equipping them to make their books the best they can be. But she is also the bestselling hybrid author of myth-flavored historical suspense, including Darkness Calls the Tiger, Shadows in the Mind’s Eye, Lovely Life, and O Little Town.

You can find out more about her writing at JanyreTromp.com and her editing at www.EditingInsiders.com.

Join Your Platform Matters (YPM) to enjoy Janyre’s full training, “X Marks the Spot”: https://annkroeker.com/yourplatformmatters/

Interview with Janyre Tromp – Start with Your Ideal Audience (Rough Transcript)

Ann Kroeker [00:00:00]:
Today we are talking with award winning author and editor Janyre Tromp about why knowing your ideal audience is vital for every writing project and you’re going to get a few other insights along the way. I’m Anne Kroeker. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome. If you’re a regular, welcome back. Today you’ve joined hundreds of established and emerging writers who are discovering ways to reach their writing goals and have fun. But by being more curious, creative and productive, you’re tuning in to the Ann Kroeker Writing Coach Podcast. This is episode 283. Start with Your Ideal Audience: Insights from Janyre Tromp

Upcoming Training with Janyre Tromp

Ann Kroeker [00:00:36]:
If you enjoy learning from Janyre as much as I think you will during this conversation, I do want to let you know up front about a training that she is going to lead in my membership community called Your Platform Matters or YPM. She’s going to lead this on October 14, 2025. If you’d like to join us, join YPM for month and then you can jump in live and be part of that conversation. Or if you’re listening after that date, you can watch the replay in that same space.

Join us in Your Platform Matters (YPM)

YPM is a warm and welcoming membership community committed to creative, meaningful ways we can grow our platform and reach readers. Check us out!

Learn more!

Meet Janyre

Janyre Tromp is an award winning nonfiction and fiction editor with more than 20 years of experience in acquiring and editing books for traditional publishers and indie authors. She also has an additional 10 years of experience in book marketing. She’s worked with nearly a thousand books written by both new and seasoned authors. All of which makes her uniquely suited to equip authors with the tools to help them navigate the quagmire.

Ann Kroeker [00:01:33]:
She adores working with writers and equipping them to make their books the best they can be. But she’s also the best selling hybrid author of myth flavored historical suspense including Darkness Calls, the Tiger, Shadows in the Mind’s Eye, Lovely Life, and O Little Town.

The Importance of Target Audience

Now we’re talking with Janyre about target audience. This is such a vital topic and you’re the perfect person to talk to about this because you have had to think about this from all different angles, haven’t you?

Janyre Tromp [00:02:04]:
I have. I’m such a weird animal in this industry because I’ve been, I’ve worked for traditional publishers. I’m a traditionally published author. I was an acquiring editor when I worked for the traditional publishers. I actually ran the marketing department for a while for a traditional publisher and now I’m a hybrid author and I do indie publishing as well as traditional publishing. So I kind of have this weird gamut of experience where I can look at this from so many different layers and angles. It’s one of my favorite topics to talk about. Yeah.

Ann Kroeker [00:02:40]:
Finding your ideal audience. So let’s just start at that point right there. So you’re coming at it from all these different angles and of what it means. In all those different spaces, we’ve got people who are writing fiction, nonfiction, essays, poetry, everything, but probably mostly nonfiction. And so keeping that in mind—but you can speak more broadly as you wish as we have this conversation—let’s start at the basic level, which is: what do you mean by an ideal audience? Is that the same as an ideal reader? And so on. Fill us in.

Defining Ideal Audience: Demographics vs. Psychographics

Janyre Tromp [00:03:12]:
So to some extent, it is the same thing as an ideal reader. It’s just when you think of an ideal reader, it’s a person that you’re thinking about. Whereas an audience implies multiple. Multiple audience members. And so when I think about a target audience. And there’s also a difference, there’s nuance between target audience and target market. For the most part, they’re interchangeable, friends.

Janyre Tromp [00:03:39]:
Don’t worry about it. Like, target market is how you actually reach them. Like where they are in the market out there. And an audience is who the individual people are in case anybody is a nerd like me and wants to know. But a target audience basically is this person or these people that are out there that are interested in the conversation that you want to have with them. Okay. So when authors are first introduced to target audience, they often think about something. It’s a marketing term called demographics.

Janyre Tromp [00:04:11]:
Okay. Demographics are these very boring numbers and facts about people that sometimes are very important, but most often they’re very minuscule amount of the information that you actually need in order to have a conversation with somebody. Right. And so when you think of a demographic, it’s women age 35 to 65 or whatever. That’s a huge range. But, you know, when you look at that range, I hope you realize that every woman from age 35 to 65, they are not the same. They do not have the same issues. They are not looking at the same world in the same way.

Janyre Tromp [00:04:53]:
And so that kind of becomes a useless bit of information. Right. And so I often encourage my authors that I work with to think about target audience in terms of something that’s called a psychographic. Okay, psychographic. Again, it’s a marketing term. It sounds scary, but it kind of sounds like what it is. So if you pull the word apart, because we’re word nerds here. Right? So if you pull the word psychographic apart you hear psycho or not.

Janyre Tromp [00:05:21]:
That doesn’t mean crazy like psycho, but psychology, you hear psychology in there, okay? And it’s a picture, a “graphic,” of their “psychology”: psycho-graphic. So this is addressing a specific need that is inside a reader. And we call that a felt need. It’s a need that they feel. So if you think about this, your psychographic might be a women age 20 or I’m sorry, your demographic may be women age 20 to 40 with young children. That’s a demographic, okay. But again, that’s still really broad, right? That’s really, really broad. But a psychographic says women with young children who are wanting them to understand why it’s important to take care of nature.

Janyre Tromp [00:06:14]:
That’s a felt need. They have this tie to nature that they want to pass on to their children, right? And so that becomes a need. How do I pass on my love of nature to my children? And for them to see the importance of taking care of the world around us, okay? And that right there gives you a very clear picture that we’ve got moms with. And, and I might even narrow it further. Moms with kids, elementary age kids, okay, so you don’t want to do it too narrow. Moms with kids in first grade? That’s too narrow. But if you’ve got that kind of…that, that lovely little space where you have enough people in that area to be able to have a conversation with them, okay? And once you kind of have that, that place where you can identify the needs inside of that audience. So along with they want to pass down their desire, their desire to engage with and enjoy nature, I would suggest asking why, why do they want to do that? What is underneath that desire that’s inside of them? Because that understanding starts drilling down into their emotional triggers, okay? And I have to tell you right now, emotion sells a book. Facts do not sell books.

Janyre Tromp [00:07:38]:
They don’t sell anything. That’s why whenever you see a commercial on TV or anywhere else, they are appealing to an emotion, not a fact. Because that’s what sells, okay? So if you happen to write fiction, because fiction is a really hard thing to nail down felt need on. So I’m just going to pop over to those folks for a second. It may very well be that they just need an escape, that they just want to read a fun book, or they may need a safe place to release emotional energy for the little bit more difficult, darker side of things like what I write, right? So there is an audience that you can identify inside your book idea. And if you haven’t identified who that audience is, you’re gonna have a really hard time talking to them, targeting them. You’re gonna have a hard time writing the book, selling the book, marketing the book. All the things are going to fall apart unless you have that established first.

Writing for Your Audience, Not Just Yourself

Ann Kroeker [00:08:35]:
That’s good. So let’s say, though, I have somebody who wants to just get all their ideas out. Nonfiction. I want to get my ideas out. I want to make sure I’m saying what I want to say. I want to make sure I’ve got the right framework in place, and then I’ll deal with figuring out who it’s for. How would you address that?

Janyre Tromp [00:08:55]:
It is 100 percent fine to information dump at the beginning of a project. It is a hundred percent fine with that. Because sometimes you do just need to get everything out and, like, lay it all out. I am a huge fan of sticky notes. So a sticky note, like I write all my scribble, all my ideas and sticky notes, or if you want something on the computer, scalpel is fantastic. It’s SC and then Apple: Scapple, and it’s kind of freeform. Freeform has free form, kind of mind mappy type thing. You can get a big poster board and write stuff down.

Janyre Tromp [00:09:33]:
I like sticky notes because I can put them on the back of a door and then when the door is, you know, open or shut, whatever, on the back side of a door, when it’s, you know, open, you can’t see it. And I close it to move my sticky notes around. Right. So. Or you can put, you know, sticky notes on a poster board, but then you can move things around a little bit.

Ann Kroeker [00:09:54]:
And these are. This is not your people. This is the ideas in the book.

Janyre Tromp [00:09:56]:
Just the ideas of the book. Just get them out. Get them out there. But then. So unless you actually do the writing of the book from the perspective of your target audience, your book is not for the target audience. It’s for you. You have written a book for yourself, and that’s fine. That’s fine.

Janyre Tromp [00:10:16]:
But if you want to publish a book and help people, then you have to approach your book writing from that person’s perspective and write the book that they need, not the book that you want to write.

Ann Kroeker [00:10:30]:
So how is the writing coming out? If it’s meant to, let’s say, educate to some extent, to inform and they’ve got all their ideas out there, how is it not for the person they’re informing? Because I do know that there’s a reader there that they want to…

Janyre Tromp [00:10:48]:
Right. Well, this sometimes happens with the nonfiction people without them even thinking about it. So there’s some very intuitive writers out there that are very in tune with their audience. They’ve done a lot of speaking, they’ve done a lot of writing, and they know how to talk to their target audience without specifically identifying them and going through the steps of, you know, oh, they’re whatever. Because they’ve interacted with them, they’ve had conversations with them, they’ve been in the trenches with them, they know them intimately, and so they automatically write for their target target audience.

Janyre Tromp [00:11:27]:
It just happens. I still. Once you have the book written before you go back in for your first round edits, I would go through the exercise of specifically identifying who your audience is. I have people that suggest, like, making up a person that you’re writing for. So kind of a Persona. So I’m writing for Jane Smith, who is a mom with kids, elementary age. What that person ends up being is the author more often than not.

Janyre Tromp [00:11:59]:
We’re just going to be honest. And I’m an author, so I can say this because I have done it. Okay. So I suggest picking somebody you know, pick somebody you know that is in the target audience. And if you don’t know anybody in your target audience, you might back up a hot second because can you write for them if you don’t know any of them? Because you might end up writing for a caricature of this audience that you think is out there, but you haven’t interacted with them enough to know if they really need this or that or whatever. I write for. Her name is Tracy. She’s a real person.

Janyre Tromp [00:12:36]:
And so when I’m writing…And this becomes most effective in your first round edits. And this is those big global changes that you’re doing, you’re identifying. Does the flow work? Does the argument work? All these things, right? If I think, “Okay, would Tracy need this?” if I’m stuck? Because we all have our darlings that we sometimes have to cut, I’m stuck. Do I keep it? Do I let it go? “Does Tracy need this or not? Would Tracy appreciate this or not?” And the answer usually comes really easily: “Yes, it would help her.”

Janyre Tromp [00:13:13]:
“No, it would not.” And that becomes the answer of whether you keep it or not.

Ann Kroeker [00:13:17]:
Nice. Nice. Do you feel like different examples? You know, do you change your examples because you now know your audience or…

Janyre Tromp [00:13:24]:
You are, yes, dialing that in 100%. So that is the power of target audience. Let me use an illustration. Okay, so let’s imagine you’re a spy. I’m a storyteller, so we’re going to storytell. Okay, so imagine that you’re a spy, okay? You’ve received word that a contact has something you need or you have something for them. You have something for this contact out there.

Janyre Tromp [00:13:51]:
You’re going to meet them in this open air market. That is the book world, right? And your superior says she’s going to send you a photo and you say, “Nope, I got it. Why don’t you just describe them to me?” Or you know, or even worse, like, “Nope, I got. Don’t worry about it. I’m going to go find this person in this big open air market.” Are you going to find that person? Are you going to find that person in this big open air market? I highly, highly doubt it. I highly doubt it. Right. So here’s the thing.

Janyre Tromp [00:14:29]:
If you don’t know what you’re aiming for or it’s blurry or too broad, you are going to miss. You’re going to miss. You are setting yourself up to fail. It’s an easy step.

Finding and Testing Your Audience

Ann Kroeker [00:14:45]:
So this is about narrowing? When you say “being specific,” is that narrowing or is it something else?

Janyre Tromp [00:14:53]:
I hate the word narrow because then we become, then we ask how narrow? How specific should I be? You know what I’m saying? And that’s where part of getting to know your audience is so important. That’s, that is why social media is important. Social media typically does not sell books very well. What social media is is this lovely little lab where you can write about stuff and get immediate gratification of whether it works or not. Immediate, like right now. And so you can start finding the things that resonate with people that they’re looking for, that they identify with, that you, that you are qualified and capable of speaking about.

Janyre Tromp [00:15:42]:
I cannot talk to elementary school parents about nature because as much as I love nature, my kids are way older now. Not way older, but they’re old enough that I’ve kind of lost touch with that. Could have I had written that book 10 years ago? Yeah, but it’s a different, it’s…after Covid, it’s a very different world now and the approaches to everything are very different. And so I don’t feel qualified to write that anymore. Right. So it’s just this, it’s this thing of experimenting and figuring it out.

Janyre Tromp [00:16:13]:
Sometimes you can find statistics about how many people are in a certain area. And you can. So if you’re writing A book on grief. If you write a book on grief, that is way too big of a topic. If you are writing a book about. I don’t even know what something would be that would be too narrow. You know, this very, very, very, very narrow niche of, you know, you have a kid who’s dealing with a very specific disease. So I can speak to this because my daughter had a very weird medical wackadoodliness when she was 12.

Janyre Tromp [00:16:52]:
So if I wrote about the specific issue that she had, my audience would be like 2,000 people total in the world. Like, there would be nobody to read my book. Like, you have to have a decent amount of people. So if I wrote a book about helping kids who have been hospitalized for things that the medical world doesn’t understand, that’s a much bigger audience because I’ve broadened it from a specific issue to a more broad issue. Now, this specific issue over here is fantastic fodder for reaching your target audience by writing an article for that specific audience. You see what I mean? That’s another way we were talking about IPS a little while ago. So intellectual property. So that’s a way to take something that you’ve already worked on and already created, take a portion of it and use it to converse with a portion of your target audience and bring them to the larger topic and sell your book.

Ann Kroeker [00:17:57]:
So. So just to be clear, you’ve got the broad…The broadest is grief. And then your book will be something narrow within that. Helping. Helping young people navigate grief. And then you’re saying an article could be about many different sub. Sub audiences or maybe just one sub within that.

Ann Kroeker [00:18:17]:
And that’s where we can. We can try a social media post, we can try an article, we can show up on a podcast for people who are specializing in this area.

Janyre Tromp [00:18:24]:
Correct, correct. And then you can find the things that. That resonate most inside of that.

Ann Kroeker [00:18:29]:
Yes. Such a great tip. I love this. I like the testing of it and I like the idea of using this opportunity where we’re actually building a platform, which is the term that nobody loves, but it’s what they use in the industry. And it is trying to get to the right people with your message. And so you can be building your platform while testing your idea at the same time. And. Yeah, and trying to find the right people.

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“X Marks the Spot”: A Deeper Dive into Target Audience

Speaking of platform, what we’re talking about today, you’re going to go into more detail with in YPM, Your Platform Matters, which is my paid membership, where I have a community of writers who are trying to build their platform. Can you give us a little preview? And then we’ll go back into the conversation here, just that. What, what are you going to go into more depth on? What are some of the outcomes they’re going to get from this training which you’re calling “X Marks the Spot.”

Janyre Tromp [00:19:16]:
So. Yes, So X marks the spot. I love that kind of visual. Because we’re looking for the treasure point. We’re looking for the people who most resonate and who will, will go buy our book, who will pay us for the work that we do. Right. And so we’re going to talk a little bit about some of the stuff that we’ve already talked about here. What is target audience? We’re going to talk about why it’s important, which we’ve talked about a little bit here too.

Janyre Tromp [00:19:43]:
We’re going to, we’re going to get down into the nitty gritty though, too, because target audience is one of the most effective tools and also underused tools that authors have in their tool belt for the entire process. So it helps you with your writing, which we’ve talked a little bit about already. But we’ll go in more depth about how you like, specifically like, figure this out, how you edit and write your book. It is how you pitch your book so to agents, to editors, to creating your marketing copy and then how you actually sell your book and how you have conversations with your end game target audience. Because interestingly, that middle row right there is actually a separate target audience. So there’s a whole conversation because you have to pitch an agent or an editor has a different mindset than your final target audiences. Well, so we’re going to cover all three of those and then we’re going to conclude with how do you actually go find your target audience? And I’ll give you real concrete tools and tips and tricks on how you get down in there and figure out where your target target audience is hanging out and how to talk to them. Wow.

Ann Kroeker [00:20:59]:
Just the description already has…I feel like it’s been informational for people who are tuning in right now. So let’s go back into what you, you know, this, this part of the conversation we’re having now. And hopefully people who do jump in maybe just even for just a month into YPM, they pay 12 bucks, they can jump in, watch it on replay or be there live. You know, you can go into this detail that you just described, but I have still a few more questions if that’s okay.

Janyre Tromp [00:21:23]:
Absolutely. Let’s go.

Recognizing and Pivoting from the Wrong Audience

Ann Kroeker [00:21:24]:
Okay, so like, let’s just say somebody has been thinking that they were writing for an audience. How, how might they actually discover, whoa, wait a minute, it’s the wrong audience. And then what should they do when they discover that?

Janyre Tromp [00:21:39]:
So I’m going to reference back to social media. And, and actually, if you’re out speaking too, you know, the crickets in the room, when you’ve like, not quite hit exactly what you thought you were gonna hit, and you get this crickets, and you’re like, oops. Let me tell you, it’s a lot easier to pivot when you have dropped the proverbial, you know, goose egg on social media than when you’ve written an entire book and then discover you’ve dropped a goose egg. And so nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to write 60, 75, 80,000 words and find out that they’ve, they’ve missed that target. And so if, if you’re playing early in the process, it’s really easy to pivot if you already have a whole book. I, one of, I, I think I referenced it earlier. Sticky notes are fantastic.

Janyre Tromp [00:22:39]:
So one of my best tools that I highly recommend all authors do, whether you write fiction or non fiction, is to write chapter summaries after you’re done. Okay, everybody who’s out there who hates outlines, breathe with me. I am going to admit something. I hate outlines. I am an editor who lives and breathes in outlines as my editorial self, as my author self. I despise them with a passion that is unparalleled to anything. Okay, I hate them. I don’t typically use them before I write. Nonfiction authors, I don’t recommend that for you necessarily, for a whole bunch of reasons.

Janyre Tromp [00:23:20]:
But my fiction authors, we have some pantsers out there, and I’m not a strict pantser, but if you write fiction, you know, hopefully, know what I mean? But what I always recommend is once you have finished writing your book, okay, you’re done writing your book, go through and write two to three sentences of a summary for each chapter. Okay? If you are a nonfiction author, I also recommend you doing like a summary of the full chapter and then one sentence summary for each header that you have in your chapter. What this does is now you have a 12ish page information about what’s going on in each of your chapters. And you can read that sucker in one sitting and you can tell when you have gotten off the beaten path, because, I don’t know, I, I mean, even the most organized people on the planet are going to go off the beaten path on occasion. And this just kind of helps you pull it back in line and figure out things like, does this help my audience? Is this the path that they should take? Because just because this path worked for me doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s actually the best path. I don’t know. I’ve done things sometimes and look back and went, gosh, I wish I would have done it this way. Instead, that person was really smart.

Testing Your Book Idea Before Going All In

Janyre Tromp [00:24:38]:
And how they did that, like, you know, use that. That’s good, you know, and so you can kind of take your book apart and rearrange it. And that’s an okay thing to do. It’s absolutely an acceptable thing to do.

Ann Kroeker [00:24:52]:
And helpful to do when you have that, that audience clarified. If you had to pivot, rearrange as needed for this new audience. If that’s the case. You mentioned having that shorter conversation. Maybe it’s an article, maybe it’s a social media post and you get the crickets. And then you’re like, okay, that didn’t. I think one social media post does not necessarily mean you’re totally off, but like, try it a few different formats, a few different places. And until you…

Ann Kroeker [00:25:18]:
Before you give up or try to find that audience anyway, Ryan Holiday in, in his book Perennial Seller, he said, before it’s a book, it should be a dinner table conversation, and then it should be an article before it’s a book. So before it’s a book, before you go all in, test it with conversations and then next with writing a full article about it. I think that aligns with what you were saying. Test it small before you go big because it’s really hard to look at your 80,000 words or 60,000 words, whatever. That would be a novel. But, you know, 55k for nonfiction and think, “Okay, now what. What do I do with this book? Do I have to revise everything?” And the answer could be yes if you didn’t have these things figured out first. Is what I’m hearing? Is that right?

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Outlining for Traditional Publishing

Janyre Tromp [00:26:04]:
Exactly. And so that’s where that’s really with the nonfiction folks. I do highly recommend outlining before you write the book. And actually, if you are headed toward traditional publishing, all of my fiction authors are very jealous because you guys can pitch an agent and a publisher on a proposal and three sample chapters so you don’t have to write the whole book…

Janyre Tromp [00:26:29]:
…before you go pitching it. Which makes us in the fiction world very jealous because we have to finish our books. They have to be done completely all and 80,000 words is a typical fiction for adult book. So we put a lot of work into it and then find out it’s totally not worth it. No, it’s worth it because we grow. Right. But yeah. So I do recommend outlining and doing an annotated table of contents is what a part of most proposals, which is the chapter outline I just described.

Janyre Tromp [00:27:02]:
So doing that as part of your editing process is something you have to do anyway, so you might as well do it and then use it yourself to diagnose problems before you send it to a publisher who’s going to point them out for you.

Ann Kroeker [00:27:18]:
Totally agree. So when it comes to the difference between finding the target audience for the readers of your novel versus the readers of your nonfiction book, not. I think we’ve talked mostly right now about the nonfiction book, which you can find in a number of ways. Platform-building along the way, whether that’s through speaking and you realize this audience is snoozing versus this audience is totally engaged. I have information here. And then we talked about social media as quick, really quick input on things. But then when it comes to novels, are you. Are you mostly focused on genre? And then we know the genre readers are a type of psychographic that we can. We can trust while we’re working on it, that it’s that kind of person that’s who we’re writing to?

Make Friends with Authors of Comparative Titles

Janyre Tromp [00:27:59]:
Um, yeah. A lot of market research goes into fiction writing. Um, as a fiction writer, if you are not reading, you are not doing your job. Um, and so it’s paying real close attention to what’s going on in the market. And kind of like you said, there are requirements for different genres. So a romance actually has specific beats that you have to hit at specific points in the manuscript. Mystery is the same. Thriller has a little bit looser, but thriller has those beats too.

Janyre Tromp [00:28:29]:
So a lot of the genre fiction has very specific things that you should be doing at certain points in the manuscript. And even the more literary book clubby type books have some types of things that are required. So you have to be aware of those things going in. And that’s part of. Of knowing your audience as a novelist. Comparative titles for both fiction and nonfiction are a very, very, very effective way to find your target audience. So if you have a similar author and you go hang out and you know, I fangirl my favorite authors, right? So if I am. If I am a historical suspense author, you better believe that I talk to Kate Quinn a lot in Kate Quinn actually knows who I am.

Janyre Tromp [00:29:19]:
And I’ve shown up and she’s been like, hey. And she’s a huge author in that genre. And I pay attention to what she’s doing and what she’s talking about. I interact with her readers because they are my target audience.

Ann Kroeker [00:29:33]:
Brilliant. And you could do that with nonfiction as well.

How to Connect with a Niche Audience

Janyre Tromp [00:29:37]:
Yes, you absolutely can. That’s what I’m saying. That’s an effective tactic for both. Unless. Unless you have a. Well, even if you have a niche audience, if you go to where those people are hanging out, in essence. So if you have a Facebook group, that or.

Janyre Tromp [00:29:55]:
I mean, my husband is a…Okay. My husband is a bass guitar player. And he’s been a bass guitar player since we were in high school. And he is known in the bass guitar world. And they have boards. Do you guys remember boards? Community board from, I don’t even know, like late 90s. Okay.

Janyre Tromp [00:30:13]:
He is still on a board for bass guitar players. Like, wow. And like they interact and they have their whole thing. So if you want to be an influencer in the bass guitar world, you better be on that page because they’re very active. So. I know. So it’s things like that. It’s finding where your audience is hanging out.

Ann Kroeker [00:30:33]:
Yes.

Janyre Tromp [00:30:34]:
And going and hanging out with them. And that’s one of the things that I tell people with platform building. I hate that word too. I hate word plat, the idea of platform building. So I tell my authors, I’m like, go find your audience wherever they are and hang out with them.

Ann Kroeker [00:30:50]:
Yeah.

Janyre Tromp [00:30:51]:
And if you have a conversation with them that resonates with them, they’ll come hang out with you elsewhere too. That is platform building. That is effective, long-term, solid platform-building.

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Platform-Building is Reaching Your Ideal Reader Now

Ann Kroeker [00:31:05]:
Yes. Introverts, people with social anxiety, they hate this about it. But if you’re going to go into the trouble of writing 55,000 words for a non fiction book, I just throw that out as a general number or 80 plus for your novel. You want to, you want to really know them, don’t you? Like if you care about them enough to write them the story or to, to share with them this, these ideas, this message that you have, why wouldn’t you want to have a few smaller conversations ahead of time, and start helping them now?

One thing I like to tell people is when it comes to platform building is you’re helping people now instead of waiting the two years it will take for your book, assuming you’re signing a contract today with a publishing house, if it’s traditional publishing and then your book comes out, on average could be two years from now. You can be also helping them now, even if you Hybrid publish or sorry, if you’re an indie published author, self publishing, if you go that path, even still, your, your book isn’t coming out tomorrow. You’ve got to write it.

Ann Kroeker [00:32:02]:
If you haven’t written it yet, so you’ve got some time there, why not be helping them now as well as later? Why did they have to wait to give them the information that could help them or the story that could get them excited? So with, I guess it’s different with novels. Maybe it’s a short story, you have to get them or something.

Want Readers to Read What You Write? Social Media Is Writing

Janyre Tromp [00:32:16]:
But yeah, we do, we do short stories and, and in novellas. But I also, I think of it as short form writing. So my platform on social media, my newsletter, it’s short form writing. When I’m giving these workshops live, I always say, “Okay, who out here wants readers to read what they write?” And everybody raised their hands because every writer wants readers to read what they write. Social media is writing. Our writing. Why, why do we have this prejudice against writing for people in something other than a book?

Ann Kroeker [00:33:02]:
Yeah, and there’s also a certain satisfaction about finishing short form. You finish it faster, you deliver it faster, you get the readers responding to it faster. There’s something really, I don’t know, I find it very exhilarating and I like it.

Janyre Tromp [00:33:15]:
I do too. And so, well, most of the time I do. I will admit there are times when I feel, and I think what it is, is the pressure that I put on myself to perform to a certain level when I, when I went, because I’m a little bit of a perfectionist, a little bit of a people-pleaser. Like if I’m not performing at this level, then it’s not good enough. And then I like, you know, I spin out. So warning, don’t do that to yourself.

Ann Kroeker [00:33:39]:
Well, you, you do a lot of reels. I know you do a lot of reels. So you don’t necessarily mean performing literally when you’re doing a reel. What do you mean by performing? I feel like a lot of people are going to resonate with whatever you say next.

Overcoming the Need to Perform or People-Please on Social Media

Janyre Tromp [00:33:52]:
So I feel oftentimes like I have to live up to a certain, a certain standard like in order for me to be successful that I have to tick these certain boxes. I have to be traditionally published, I have to sell this many books, I have to have this many likes on my post. I have to post this many times per week. These, these things, these performance things that I, I, I feel like in order for me to be qualified as a good writer that I have to hit these things, I have to perform these things. And you guys, like, I’m a best-selling, award-winning author. I’m an award-winning editor. I have so many credentials behind my name that for me to feel like I need to jump through these hoops is absolutely ridiculous. And I know that and yet I still do it.

Janyre Tromp [00:34:50]:
Don’t do this to yourself. If you are not okay with yourself where you are right now, you’re not going to be okay with yourself after you have all these things behind you. And so that’s it. This has turned. Like we’ve gotten to…

Ann Kroeker [00:35:04]:
I know. Thank you so much for being vulnerable, open.

Sometimes the Timing Is “Off”

Janyre Tromp [00:35:08]:
But it is something that I see over and over and over again with other authors. I fight it for myself where people authors tend to feel deeply about the world and themselves and we do ourselves a disservice when even if we drop that goose egg that we were talking about before, like maybe it wasn’t the right time. Maybe it wasn’t the right time. You know, I. This is a perfect example. So my most recent book, Darkness Calls the Tiger, that book before it released, I had written it. I think it was, it was almost a decade. I wrote the book before it was published.

Janyre Tromp [00:35:50]:
It was the first book I ever wrote. It was the third book I released. Everybody when I was trying to pitch it originally, everybody thought my writing was amazing and they couldn’t sell it because nobody wanted to read World War II stories that took place in someplace other than the European theater. Right. Which was so hard for me to move on from that. But then Toska Lee wrote this book and she did really well with it. She wrote it with Marcus Brotherton. Elise Hooper wrote a book that was World War II Pacific.

Janyre Tromp [00:36:22]:
And suddenly everybody was interested in something that was set not in the European theaters of World War II. And I sold the book. Right? So just because it goose egg back here doesn’t mean that it isn’t good quality, good, good content or that it isn’t worthwhile. It just means that maybe it’s a not yet, maybe it is bad content. And then you need to evaluate that a little bit. But—

Ann Kroeker [00:36:47]:
Or hire you, Janyre Tromp, to be my editor because you’re outstanding. I send people to you all the time.

Janyre Tromp [00:36:53]:
Thank you.

We Write to Reach People

Ann Kroeker [00:36:54]:
But yes, yes. And there’s something to be said that’s not part of this conversation per se. But like I think you’re right. Like we do need to be creating content that is quality for what it whatever its purpose is, so that people do respond to it. But I hear what you’re saying. Originally this took off when we were talking about performance. We can’t let that stop us from starting to share our message or our stories in short form. Because why are we writing anyway? To reach readers, which is what we are talking about.

Janyre Tromp [00:37:25]:
Exactly. And actually it does, even the timing of things actually does apply to target market. Because if you’re paying attention to your target market, then you will know when the right time is. So like for me, I was like, I just wanted to write a cool story that nobody had ever heard and I was writing for me and I will 100% acknowledge that. But then as I was watching the market shift, I saw what was coming and said, hold, hold up. We got a moment for my target audience and we’re gonna go. And it worked. That’s amazing.

Janyre Tromp [00:37:55]:
As I was paying attention to what was going on in the market and what was happening in my target audience, I recognized the shift and took advantage of it.

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With Limited Time: Focus on Writing or Focus on Platform?

Ann Kroeker [00:38:03]:
That’s brilliant. So I have a question about, since we’re just for a second, we’re talking about platform, which all interlaces with this question of reaching our target reader, target audience. How do you. Maybe you could talk about it personally and then more broadly, but like how do you balance the sharing of content in some format in order to platform build versus writing your actual books and doing that work? Because I know a lot of people who are writing novels or nonfiction books are really struggling with this. Like how can I write my book if I’m busy making all this content for, for online or writing guest posts or opinion pieces or whatever.

Janyre Tromp [00:38:43]:
The struggle is real. First of all, the struggle is real. Okay? So I always tell people, write your book first. Like make that your priority because if your book stinks, it is not going to sell. Okay?

Ann Kroeker [00:39:00]:
Are you talking about novelists right now?

Janyre Tromp [00:39:03]:
I’m talking about both. I’m saying like put, put your effort into your writing, whatever that may be. Right? Okay. Like as. Even as a nonfiction author, you don’t have to finish your book as a nonfiction writer. Right, Right. Just, but you know, just do your three chapters. But….

Janyre Tromp [00:39:20]:
And I’m saying write your book as in put together your annotated table of contents, do your research on your audience, write a few sample or a few articles and see how they go. Like do your testing. That’s part of writing your book. Okay. The research, that’s all writing. And I’m a very big believer in everything that goes into the writing process is part of Writing. If part of your process is going and walking through the art museum, that’s writing. Okay.

Janyre Tromp [00:39:50]:
That will save you from burnout. Okay. Part of my process is going to Lake Michigan quite often because I’m not that far from Lake Michigan.

Ann Kroeker [00:39:58]:
Nice.

Janyre Tromp [00:39:59]:
And that is part of my process. Just like. Okay, so your primary responsibility if you are wanting to write a book? It’s to write the book. Okay. Having good content for your intellectual property, which we talked about before, that, that thing that you were planning to sell, right? That is your primary goal, then that is your primary responsibility. I’m not saying forsake the marketing. I’m saying if you find yourself and you have 10 minutes today and that’s all the time you have, you should probably work on your book and not worry about the marketing today. So when you look at the whole scope of things, you need to be doing marketing and writing at the same time, but meet your writing goals first and then work on your, on your, on your platform.

Develop Systems and Schedule Content

Janyre Tromp [00:40:57]:
How I kind of do that when I’m freaking out a little bit. I schedule the heck out of things. Okay. I batch post like it’s my job, because it is. Okay. I go in. I keep a list. I thought it was here.

Janyre Tromp [00:41:11]:
It’s upstairs. I was going to grab it and show you guys. I keep a running list of random ideas that I borrow and shift for my purposes. Sometimes I will, you know, keep track of thing of things. The audience that my audience is asking me about. We, in the novel world, we do a lot of book recommendations. So I keep lists of books that I want to read, books that I have read.

Janyre Tromp [00:41:42]:
And then I like mix and match match stuff. I reuse content. I will recommend the same book 10 times because, you know, that’s the only book I’ve read in the month, which has never happened since the advent of audiobooks. That has never happened before then I’m sure it did. But you know, so I will repurpose content as well. So I will do things like I just did a reel the other day of. I had somebody ask me, hey, what book would you recommend for my book club? Well, I put. Pulled out books that I read years ago and gave my little blurbs of why I would recommend those.

Janyre Tromp [00:42:23]:
It took me a very short amount of time to record that I was my. I didn’t, I don’t even think I had any makeup on that day. Like my audience doesn’t care. Maybe your audience does and know your audience. Right. But that’s a good way to just kind of keep things going. I’m very aware of. We talk a lot about buckets.

Janyre Tromp [00:42:46]:
I have three buckets that I kind of put content into because it’s stuff I would talk about anyway. So books, obviously, is one of those. And I try to keep a pretty narrow hold on what types of books I recommend because I know my audience.

Janyre Tromp [00:43:10]:
And then I do my family. I don’t happen to post pictures of my kids on public social media. That’s 100% up to individuals. My husband is in the tech world and is like, absolutely not. So I post pretty pic. I post me, my husband, and my insane cats. Brave has become a fan favorite. He is half a French fry short of a Happy Meal.

Janyre Tromp [00:43:33]:
He is nuts, does crazy stuff, and it is gold. People love it. And he recommends books, too. It’s fantastic, right?

Ann Kroeker [00:43:43]:
Nice.

Janyre Tromp [00:43:44]:
And then the third one is…my tag is Beautiful Ugly Me. So I look at life, at the hard things of life, and find things that are beautiful, even when it isn’t pretty. And so that’s quotes, that’s pretty. Pictures, that’s whatever is going on in my life. And so I actually have a whole file ready to go of quotes. And then I will sometimes pair them with pictures, photos that I’ve taken because I go to Lake Michigan to decompress, and I take walks to decompress, and I take pictures as part of that. And so I have this file folder of pictures and this file folder of quotes, and I’m like, hey, I feel this quote today. And that picture goes with it.

Janyre Tromp [00:44:26]:
And look, bang. And I will schedule a whole month when I’m on.

Ann Kroeker [00:44:31]:
It makes you sound….you make it sound so doable and you’ve tied it to your ideal audience because that’s who you’re reaching in this way as well. And it sounds like it’s necessary. Would you say it’s necessary for this life that we’re leading as authors?

Janyre Tromp [00:44:50]:
Yeah, and I’m somebody. I’m kind of…I mentioned it before. I am kind of a little bit of a ditz. Okay. I don’t know. My natural self is very disorganized, and I recognize that about myself. So I put frameworks into place so that I’m not always in panic mode, because if I didn’t put these structures into place, I would be in the corner, curled up in a ball in anxiety, like, paralyzed. Okay. And so these are things that I do to, like, just make it doable for myself. I am not always perfect about it. And I have kind of gotten to the point in my career where I’m okay with that. That’s not even my career in my life.

When Life Happens, Readers Understand

Janyre Tromp [00:45:38]:
I’ve gotten to that point in my life where there are just times, there are just times when it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna come together. And it seems for me that often it is not gonna come together. I just plan for it not to come together. I don’t remember a single book release like, like my last book release happened. My mom was in the hospital fighting for her life and I was in the hospital with her. So like, you know, you just do whatever you can do and that’s just gotta be okay. And the lovely thing about it is if you are honest with your audience in general, they’re gonna see that. “Like guys, I’m sorry, this is, this is where I’m at.” And they’re gonna be like, “Yep, gotcha.”

Ann Kroeker [00:46:24]:
I love this.

Janyre Tromp [00:46:25]:
Who you are already on, on social media, in your, in your newsletters, with your fellow authors. It, it just, yeah, being honest, you get a lot of grace.

Ann Kroeker [00:46:38]:
Well and you’re doing that right now. You know, you’re doing that in this conversation. You’ve been vulnerable and open the whole time, but especially on two different topics at least. And I think that’s also got to be so reassuring for anybody tuning in right now who’s feeling like, “Okay, here she is…” like you’re what? You’re an award-winning author, award-winning editor, what else? Award-winning everything. And you’ve got all those credentials and yet you’re a human. We hear it in your voice, we see it in your face. You’re a human being who has ups and downs and hard days and you are a self-proclaimed ditz at times. But you find systems that work and you work with those systems and sometimes the systems don’t work because life happens.

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Real People Connect with Real People

Ann Kroeker [00:47:19]:
And I think that too has got to be so reassuring to people who are tuning in right now is thinking, “How am I going to do it all? Oh, sometimes I won’t do it all, sometimes I won’t do it.” But the point is in terms of the theme of the, of the conversation is these are real people. It’s what I heard you say just now. You know? You’re a real person and they’re real people too. They’re not just a marketing figure. It’s not just an avatar, it’s a real person, you said, and these real people want to hear from a real person. And I am seeing that more and more.

Ann Kroeker [00:47:49]:
At the time of this recording, it seems like everybody’s all done with Pinterest-perfect. Remember how much we fussed about our little Instagram nine-grid or whatever that was? Those had to be just right, and they all had to be lined up. And we couldn’t have this one before that one, because then the color would be off and all that. Nobody cares anymore at all. Not only because it’s just coming through their feedback, but, like, even if they go there and it’s all different colors, they don’t care because you’re a real person and they want to talk to a real person and they want to know you’re a real person. And not AI talking at them, too.

Ann Kroeker [00:48:20]:
And so there’s something to be said for living as our real self, reaching real people. And I think that, to me, is a big part of this. Your ideal audience, they’re comprised of real people. It’s a real person we’re writing to.

Janyre Tromp [00:48:34]:
And that’s the other thing that’s really nice about being in constant communication with them is you don’t forget who they are. You don’t forget who you’re writing to. It’s really easy as an author to get in your little author bubble and just do what you think is best. And then all of a sudden, you hit your target audience as real people and you’re like, “Oh, yeah. They’re feeling pain, they’re feeling confusion,” or whatever these things might be. A different kind of felt need that maybe, maybe something in your message you would be able to connect with them.

Ann Kroeker: But at least you can commiserate and help them feel heard. I mean, that’s what we all want, right? Like, we want to be read, they want to be heard, they want to be known. We want to share something with them to build that human connection. Isn’t that what this writing life is all about? I think that’s what finding our ideal reader. It’s driven from this place of human. Human connection. Maybe…love? I hope some love, too.

Emotion Sells, But Don’t Manipulate

Janyre Tromp [00:49:38]:
That’s where I think going all the way back to what we were talking about real early is emotion. The reason that emotion sells books and sells product is because it creates that connection. And so. And people can tell phony. So don’t go in there manipulating people’s emotions, because that’ll just make them angry. You don’t want to do that. But if you authentically connect with people on their emotional level and where they’re hurting and how you can help them that sparks that connection and that is something like you, you, you can’t buy that. And it’s an amazing affirmation as an author when that happens too.

Ann Kroeker [00:50:28]:
I agree. Even in short-form interactions that I have on social media, I have a hard time explaining to other people what I’ve done because I feel like, “I’m doing what I would do. If this is another person, I would just talk to them and I would be me.” You know, we were talking about that performative thing earlier where you were opening up so, so genuinely I think that genuineness, maybe that’s a good word too. It’s like, I don’t know, that’s just kind of who I am. So I think we all are but we maybe do feel like we have to perform to some extent. “I have to do an act of writing. I feel…

Ann Kroeker [00:51:02]:
…it needs to be all a certain way to be online.” No, just be you and say the things you would say, the way you would say them, and hopefully you’ll find those people who like to connect in that way. That’s what I hope for everybody who’s listening in, or tuning in today.

What to Expect in X Marks the Spot

Well, again we talked about how you’re going to lead this training. It’s, “X Marks the Spot: Finding Gold Through Targeting Your Audience.” and I thought I would just briefly explain that since you’re going to be in YPM (again, it’s Your Platform Matters). It’s $12 a month. You pay for one month if you want to and just join us.

Ann Kroeker [00:51:39]:
When they join live, can they ask you questions? You field questions? It’s interactive? [Yes!] Good. But it is a training. I mean it’s a presentation and so come you can dig in, you can learn more from Janyre and you can see how delightful she is. You will not want to miss this. You can watch it on replay. So if you’re tuning in here two years later, the replay should still be there for you.

How can people get to know you better and learn what you have to offer?

Get to Know Janyre

Janyre Tromp [00:52:04]:
Absolutely. So I half jokingly say if you can spell my name, you can find me. So I am Janyre Tromp. All over social media, LinkedIn, Instagram, I’m attempting TikTok y’. All. I’m working on it. But that’s my website, my author website. And then I spell your name.

Janyre Tromp [00:52:28]:
It is J A N Y R E and then my last name T R O M P. So my web address is janyretromp.com. You can also find me at EditingInsiders.com [insiders plural] and that’s my editing world. And then I actually run a free Facebook group for folks to just ask general editing questions. Anything from where do I put this comma to. To can you give us an idea of how to write a hook? And so I answer those questions. It’s totally free because I have a heart for all of the authors that are out there in this world. It is a crazy industry and it is constantly changing.

Janyre Tromp [00:53:13]:
And I just. And you and I have a very similar passion for authors where we just want to help you guys. And so I would love to hang out with you wherever you want to hang out with me, if you want to see pretty pictures. And Instagram is kind of my happy place. So if you want to hang out with me, that’s where I am most often.

Ann Kroeker [00:53:32]:
So any last bits of advice? This can be about anything related to writing. It doesn’t have to be restricted to your target reader. How would you like to send people off?

You Have a Message…Don’t Be Afraid to Make Those Connections

Janyre Tromp [00:53:44]:
I’m going to say you have a message. You have a message that only you can give. And don’t be afraid to. To give it. Don’t be afraid to step out into that and, and talk to people and make those connections. It’s. It is a vulnerable place to be. But embrace it and people will see that.

Ann Kroeker [00:54:05]:
Love it. Thank you for being here. I’ll bet you’re ready to go deeper on this topic. I know I am. And I can’t wait for Janyre’s training that she’s going to lead in your platform matters (YPM). That’s my paid membership for writers who are working to build their own platform. We call it YPM for short.

Ann Kroeker [00:54:23]:
You can go to annkroeker.com/ypm to learn more about that. Join in October. You can be on the call with us live. We’d love to have you. So learn more@annkroeker.com/ypm and I’m Ann Kroeker, cheering you on as a writing coach in your ear everywhere. We may meet at my website, on this podcast, in your inbox, or even in person. Or I’m always looking for ideas to share with you that will help you achieve your writing goals and have fun by being more curious, creative, and productive. Thank you for being here.

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I grew up on a farm before email, before social media, before any Internet existed for the general public. We had phones, of course. We had walkie-talkies. But we didn’t have Instagram or websites.

If you traveled back in time and told young Ann (I was “Annie” back then) that at the click of a button—from the palm of my hand!—I’d be able to write something that would be available to people anywhere in the world, I wouldn’t have believed you. 

I would have laughed, thinking you were teasing me. “Come on,” I would have said, “that’s like something out of The Jetsons.”

Publish from the Palm of Your Hand

Yet here we are, with publishing and distribution platforms literally in the palms of our hands. From your phone or a laptop, you can write something, click publish, and it’s live as an update on social media, a blog post on your website, a newsletter via email.

Anyone in the entire world can read it.

That really is like something out of The Jetsons.

Have you stopped to think how fast and easy it is to write and send a message into the world from your computer or phone—how it flies through the ether and into a follower’s feed or a subscriber’s inbox? The immediacy is mind-boggling.

The Power of Publishing Now

If you’re working on a long-form project like a nonfiction book, you’re writing for a reader whose life you hope to impact, whether through a major transformation or a subtle shift in perspective. It takes a long time to complete a polished version of those 50,000+ words, ready for publication. And when you seek traditional publication, you pitch agents in hopes of an offer, so more time passes. 

All that work and waiting, and not one word has been read by your intended audience. 

Let’s say you finally sign a book contract today. After all that time, your message still won’t reach that reader for another year-and-a-half to two years.

That’s a long time.

Why wait when you have Jetsons-like gadgets on hand? Why not start making a difference in your readers’ lives right away? Your full manuscript may still be in progress, but your message can begin changing lives today:

• Blog posts and newsletters let you do a deep dive into your concepts for readers to ponder
• Social media posts allow you to test ideas and connect directly with your audience
• Podcast appearances help you reach listeners who might never discover your book
• Online publications can feature your expertise to established audiences

That chapter you’re polishing for your book proposal? You probably have several subsections. Pick one and modify it to become a LinkedIn post.

The research you’ve done to support your main argument? Some could become an infographic for Instagram.

The personal story illustrating your message? Share it on your Substack.

Deliver value now while building anticipation for your completed book that will launch later. You even test your ideas to find what resonates most and strengthen your draft.

But the Algorithm…

If you’re thinking social media algorithms will throttle your reach, try to relax and have a little fun. Imagine how your post might reach a few of your ideal readers and make them think, laugh, feel something.

Remember to be social on social media: Like other people’s content. Leave a comment. Share their posts. Worry less about the algorithm and be social with people you care about.

When you focus on creating helpful content and engaging with others, you connect directly with the people who need your message most. 

Sure, maybe fewer people interact with your Instagram carousel post than they used to.

Maybe “social media” seems more performative and less “real.”

Maybe the algorithm change really did show your work to fewer people.

But even a few views means you brushed against each other virtually. An interaction in the DMs can be two people chatting and not just an automated system sending out a link (those are handy tools, but I’m suggesting you could simply be real).

Worst case scenario, only a few people see your post. That’s a few people “Annie” never would have reached when sitting in the farm house back in the day.

When Readers Read Your Work, It Changes Them…and You

If you told me then that five or ten people read something I had written and published on a platform called “Instagram,” I would have been astonished. Real people somewhere in the world instantly read my words!

That would have changed my life; I would have thought of myself as a writer years earlier. I would have thought about my writing differently, imagining those readers, hoping my ideas would change them in some way as our lives intersected for those few seconds.

Today, at this moment, that’s our reality.

Your message going out means you’re intersecting with readers and potentially changing lives.

Start Now, Start Small

Someone out there needs exactly what you have to share—and they need it today.

Choose one approach that feels relatively natural and comfortable. It doesn’t have to be social media. Maybe it’s an emailed newsletter, audio on a podcast, video on YouTube, or a blog post on your website. 

Extract one idea from your long-form work-in-progress and shape it to fit the medium.

Press publish.

It’s like The Jetsons…but it’s really out there, reaching readers right now.

Resources:

• The interview with award-winning author-editor Janyre Tromp goes deeper on this topic—watch, listen to, or read my conversation HERE.
• Clarissa Moll also brought her own perspective on reaching readers in my interview with her HERE.

Join us in Your Platform Matters (YPM)

YPM is a warm and welcoming membership community committed to creative, meaningful ways we can grow our platform and reach readers. Check us out!

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I tend to sprawl—both in my writing and, if you ask my family, on the couch. I start with a plan, but as I write, new ideas branch out in every direction. Before I know it, I’ve lost my way.

And yet…

While I encourage the power of outlines, I confess that I often prefer finding my way through the sprawl, writing until I experience an epiphany—a moment of convergence that shows me what the piece is…and isn’t.

In other words, I write my way to clarity.

Project-Level Discovery

If your work-in-progress is sprawling, you might end up with too much content and wish you’d stuck to an outline. But that sprawl, while inefficient and maze-like, can lead to a revelatory moment. Your writing takes on meaning you didn’t anticipate.

Also, you’ll enjoy unexpected benefits. For example, you might sort through the mess and realize you’ve started two or three projects instead of just one. Another chapter? More blog posts? Nice!

Sift through the mess of ideas. What belongs? What doesn’t? What’s trying to emerge that you hadn’t planned for? Will you end up sharing more vulnerably, going deeper than expected? Good. It’ll likely serve readers even better.

Sometimes, the writing reveals that your original claim was too simple or didn’t feel right. By sprawling and sifting, you’ll eventually find the heart of the piece—it was hiding beneath the surface, waiting for you to discover it.

Career-Level Wayfinding

This sprawling approach to writing has pointed me not only to the purpose of individual writing projects but also to the purpose of my writing career overall.

Project by project, we write our way into becoming the writers we’re meant to be. But it’s rarely a straight line.

My own writing life has meandered as I’ve written for a wide range of publications, blogged on wildly unrelated topics, and reinvented myself several times. I helped co-launch a freelance business, poured my heart into it, and then stepped away when I realized it wasn’t the right fit. My colleague built it into a hugely successful business, and I’m genuinely thrilled for her—because writing revealed it wasn’t my path.

What did I do instead? I wrote about motherhood, creativity, and whatever topics caught my interest. Eventually, writing my way forward, ideas sprawling, I realized I’m as meta as they come (not Meta, but “meta”): I write about writing.

As a writing coach, I’m convinced that writing is how we find our way forward to the writing life and career we want.

Finding Our Way to Readers

When I finally understood that writing was how I would find my way forward—and how my clients could, too—I saw that writing is also how we find our way to readers.

Each piece we publish becomes part of our body of work. Pieces that fall flat or fail to find readers help us try again, discovering audiences who do connect with our work. In time, we produce projects that land in inboxes and on nightstands, resonating with readers, confirming that this is the way forward. Keep writing this. More of this, please.

The Writing Compass

It’s okay to sprawl, especially when it leads to greater truths. It happens through the thinking and exploring and reflection that happen while writing.

When you’re stuck, write. When you’re confused, write. When you have something to say, write. When you’re not sure which direction to take your writing life, write. Through writing, I’m convinced you’ll find your way forward.

Writing Brought Healing

One of my clients—let’s call her Jamie—struggled for years to make progress in therapy. But when she started working with me as her writing coach, everything shifted. She told me she made more progress in those first few months of working with a writing coach than in years of therapy alone.

It wasn’t me. It was the writing.

Writing unlocked something. It gave her purpose, space, and permission to explore thoughts she’d been avoiding and emotions she’d been suppressing. She chose to share some of her work with readers, and kept some just for herself and her therapist.

Talk about finding your way forward! Writing—alongside a quality therapist—became her path to healing.

As a coach, I believe:

1. If you need to process something, you can write to understand.

2. If you have something to say more widely, you can write to be heard.

You have the ideas in you, waiting to emerge through your words. Write your way to clarity and healing. Write your way forward, and let your voice be heard.

Resources

• Write to Discover – Start with Yourself
• Write to Discover Your Top Themes & Topics
• Write to Discover Your Ideal Reader
• Are Outlines a Writer’s Greatest Gift?
• What Lies Beneath the Surface of Your Life?
• Interview with Patrice Gopo on Meaning Making on the Page and Studying the Craft

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You’ve landed on a curated collection of 65 inspiring writing quotes. Whether you need tips on craft and creative inspiration or reminders to tap into courage and patience, find motivation to keep writing.

Unlike a lot of websites packed with quotes for writers, each one you find on this page links to a post with attribution and citations so you can trace it back to its original source. Browse these to inspire your best work yet.

Ausonius

“Begin, for half the deed is in beginning;
Begin the other half, and you will finish.” (Ausonius)

Baldwin, James

“The importance of a writer is continuous…His importance, I think, is that he is here to describe things which other people are too busy to describe.” (James Baldwin, Nobody Knows My Name)

Boorstin, Daniel

“I write to discover what I think.” (Daniel Boorstin)

Bradbury, Ray

“[I]f you are writing without zest, without gusto, without love, without fun, you are only half a writer.” (Ray Bradbury, Zen in the Art of Writing)

“So while our art cannot, as we wish it could, save us from wars, privation, envy, greed, old age, or death, it can revitalize us amidst it all.” (Ray Bradbury, Zen in the Art of Writing)

Brande, Dorothea

“[S]et…a short period each day when you will, by taking thought, recapture a childlike “innocence of eye.” For half an hour each day transport yourself back to the state of wide-eyed interest that was yours at the age of five. Even though you feel a little self-conscious about doing something so deliberately that was once as unnoticed as breathing, you will still find that you are able to gather stores of new material in a short time.” (Dorothea Brande, Becoming a Writer)

“Writing calls on unused muscles and involves solitude and immobility. There is not much to be said for the recommendation, so often heard, to serve an apprenticeship to journalism if you intend to write fiction. But a journalist’s career does teach two lessons which every writer needs to learn—that it is possible to write for long periods without fatigue, and that if one pushes on past the first weariness one finds a reservoir of unsuspected energy—one reaches the famous ‘second wind.'” (Dorothea Brande, Becoming a Writer)

Cameron, Julia

“Sometimes we do not know we have a writing voice because there has never been anyone to listen. When we begin to listen to ourselves, the inner voice grows stronger. Soon others can hear it as well.” (Julia Cameron, The Right to Write)

Cather, Willa

“I think that most of the basic material a writer works with is acquired before the age of fifteen. That’s the important period: when one’s not writing. Those years determine whether one’s work will be poor and thin or rich and fine.” (Willa Cather)

Chambers, Oswald

“The author or speaker from whom you learn the most is not the one who teaches you something you didn’t know before, but the one who helps you take a truth with which you have quietly struggled, give it expression, and speak it clearly and boldly.” (Oswald Chambers, My Utmost for His Highest)

Conroy, Pat

“My well-used dictionaries and thesauri sing out to me when I write, and all English words are the plainsong of my many-tongued, long-winded ancestors who spoke before me.” (Pat Conroy, Why I Write)

Curie, Marie (Madame)

“Be less curious about people and more curious about ideas.” (Marie Curie)

DeSalvo, Louise

“In working with writers, I’ve learned it’s not talent that gets books written, it’s hard, slow, steady work. But it’s not only hard work—almost every student I’ve taught works hard. It’s learning to understand that the process of writing isn’t linear but filled with peaks and valleys; that sometimes we don’t know what we’re doing but we need to work anyway; that we must stay…we must have tenacity when we feel like walking away from a project.” (Louise DeSalvo, The Art of Slow Writing)

“I believe that our own work will flourish if we find the support we need, but also if we consistently help other writers throughout our writing lives. And not only because we can then count on a coterie of people to give us help when we need it, but also because if we’re not generous to others, we can’t possibly be generous to ourselves.” (Louise DeSalvo, The Art of Slow Writing)

“Beginning—and even accomplished—writers often expect to complete an essay in a few weeks, a book in a year…Yet the best writing grows by accretion, over time…Taking time prevents us from writing knee-jerk responses to challenging material. It encourages us to reflect upon, and express, the complexity of our subjects. It allows us to understand that creating fine work can only be achieved by a slow, consistent dedication to our craft.” (Louise DeSalvo, The Art of Slow Writing)

“It takes daily, deliberate practice to become a proficient writer.” (Louise DeSalvo, The Art of Slow Writing)

Didion, Joan

“I write entirely to find out what is on my mind, what I’m thinking, what I’m looking at, what I’m seeing, and what it means.” (Joan Didion)

Elbow, Peter

“Writing without voice is wooden or dead because it lacks sound, rhythm, energy, and individuality.” (Peter Elbow, Writing with Power)

Frost, Robert

“No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader. No surprise for the writer, no surprise for the reader.” (Robert Frost, The Paris Review)

Godin, Seth

“Just write poorly. Continue to write poorly, in public, until you can write better. I believe that everyone should write in public. Get a blog. Or use…a microblogging site. Use an alias if you like. Turn off comments, certainly—you don’t need more criticism, you need more writing…If you know you have to write something every single day, even a paragraph, you will improve your writing. If you’re concerned with quality, of course, then not writing is not a problem, because zero is perfect and without defects. Shipping nothing is safe.” (Seth Godin)

Haley, Alex

“Every death is like the burning of a library.” (Alex Haley)

Karr, Mary

“[E]verybody I know who wades deep enough into memory’s waters drowns a little” (Mary Karr, The Art of Memoir)

“[A] single image can split open the hard seed of the past and soon memory pours forth from every direction, sprouting its vines and flowers up around you till the old garden’s taken shape in all its fragrant glory” (Mary Karr, The Art of Memoir)

“[E]ven the best minds warp and blur what they see…For all of memory’s power to yank us back into an overwhelming past, it can also fail big time” (Mary Karr, The Art of Memoir)

Keyes, Ralph

“The trail of literary history is littered with those who fell along the way because the anxiety of trying to write paralyzed their hand.” (Ralph Keyes, The Courage to Write)

“Melville admired most the writers he called “divers,” those who dared to plunge deep inside and report what they found. Frederick Busch thought this need for inner exploration was what made novel-writing so daring. “You go to dark places so that you can get there, steal the trophy and get out.” (Ralph Keyes, The Courage to Write)

“All writers must confront their fears eventually. The sooner they do this, the better their work will be.” (Ralph Keyes, The Courage to Write)

“Working writers aren’t those who have eliminated their anxiety. They are the ones who keep scribbling while their heart races and their stomach churns, and who mail manuscripts with trembling fingers…. They learn how to keep writing even as fear tries to yank their hand from the page.” (Ralph Keyes, The Courage to Write)

“Writing is both frightening and exhilarating. It couldn’t be one without the other. The best writers … convert anxiety into enthusiasm and an unparalleled source of energy.” (Ralph Keyes, The Courage to Write)

King, Stephen

“If you want to be a writer, you must do two things above all others: read a lot and write a lot. There’s no way around these two things that I’m aware of, no shortcut.” (Stephen King, On Writing)

“Reading is the creative center of a writer’s life.” (Stephen King, On Writing)

Lamott, Anne

“[I]f you are writing the clearest, truest words you can find and doing the best you can to understand and communicate, this will shine on paper like its own little lighthouse.” (Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird)

“You cannot write out of someone else’s big dark place; you can only write out of your own.” (Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird)

“We write to expose the unexposed. If there is one door in the castle you have been told not to go through, you must…Most human beings are dedicated to keeping that one door shut. But the writer’s job is to see what’s behind it, to see the bleak unspeakable stuff, and to turn the unspeakable into words—not just into any words but if we can, into rhythm and blues. You can’t do this without discovering your true voice.” (Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird)

Le Guin, Ursula K.

“I recommend to all storytellers a watchful attitude and a thoughtful, careful choice of adjectives and adverbs, because the bakery shop of English is rich beyond belief, and narrative prose, particularly if it’s going a long distance, needs more muscle than fat.” (Ursula K. Le Guin, Steering the Craft)

“Adjectives and adverbs are rich and good and fattening. The main thing is not to overindulge. (Ursula K. Le Guin, Steering the Craft)

“People who don’t worry at least a little about semicolons aren’t likely to be writers.” (Ursula K. Le Guin, Steering the Craft)

“Prose writers are interested mostly in life and commas.” (Ursula K. Le Guin, Steering the Craft)

“[G]ood writers train their mind’s ear to listen to their own prose—to hear as they write.” (Ursula K. Le Guin, Steering the Craft)

Lerner, Betsy

“If you are struggling with what you should be writing, look at your scraps. Encoded there are the themes and subjects that you should be grappling with as a writer.” (Betsy Lerner, The Forest for the Trees)

Lish, Gordon

“The secret of good writing is telling the truth.” (Gordon Lish, Dick Cavett television interview, Aug. 25, 1991)

Lynch, Kevin

“Never go to bed until you have a story to tell.” (Kevin Lynch)

“If someone asks, ‘How was your day?’ and you don’t have a story to tell them, go create one.” (Kevin Lynch)

Lynch, Thomas

“Witness and keep track. That’s the basic work of writers.” (Thomas Lynch)

Murray, Donald

“The material for writing is in your head. It will be recovered, relived, understood, and shared through writing.” (Donald Murray, Write to Learn)

“One of the principal reasons that writers write is to relive life.” (Donald Murray, Write to Learn)

“Writing is also rethinking. When we write a personal experience we re-experience it and have the opportunity to give it a shape and meaning that may not have been apparent the first time around.” (Donald Murray, Write to Learn)

Nin, Anaïs

“We write to heighten our own awareness of life. We write to lure and enchant and console others. We write to serenade our lovers. We write to taste life twice, in the moment and in retrospection.” (Anaïs Nin, The Diary of Anais Nin)

O’Connor, Flannery

“Anybody who has survived his childhood has enough information about life to last him the rest of his days” (Flannery O’Connor, Mystery and Manners)

Patchett, Ann

“Writing is a miserable, awful business. Stay with it. It is better than anything in the world.” (Ann Patchett, This Is the Story of a Happy Marriage)

Pipher, Mary

“Language imparts identity, meaning, and perspective to our human community. Writers are either polluters or part of the clean-up team. Just as the language of power and greed has the potential to destroy us the language of reason and empathy has the power to save us. Writers can inspire a kinder, fairer, more beautiful world, or incite selfishness, stereotyping, and violence. Writers can unite people or divide them.” (Mary Pipher, Writing to Change the World)

Roorbach, Bill

One of the many curious things about the act of writing is the way it can give access to the unconscious mind. And in the hidden parts of consciousness lie not only hobgoblins and neurotic glimmers, but lots of regular stuff, the everyday stuff of memory. The invisible face of your grade school bully is in there, somewhere, and the exact smell of the flowers on vines in your grandma’s backyard, along with most everything else. (Bill Roorbach, Writing Life Stories)

Roosevelt, Eleanor

“This part of learning—learning as you go—gives life its salt. And this, too, comes back primarily to interest. You must be interested in anything that comes your way.” (Eleanor Roosevelt, You Learn by Living)

“None of us can afford to stop learning or to check our curiosity about new things, or to lose our humility in the face of new situations.” (Eleanor Roosevelt, You Learn by Living)

“If you can develop this ability to see what you look at, to understand its meaning, to readjust your knowledge to this new information, you can continue to learn and to grow as long as you live and you’ll have a wonderful time doing it.” (Eleanor Roosevelt, You Learn by Living)

Saint Thierry, William of

“A man who has lost his sense of wonder is a man dead.” (William of Saint Thierry)

Shapiro, Dani

“I write in order to discover what I don’t yet know.” (Dani Shapiro)

Tharp, Twyla

“We want our artists to take the mundane materials of our lives, run it through their imaginations, and surprise us.” (Twyla Tharp, The Creative Habit)

Vaughn, Ruth

“I am convinced that writing creatively is a beautiful and rewarding experience for discovering one’s self. For writing is one of the most forceful ways of learning, perceiving, maturing, expanding.” (Ruth Vaughn, Write to Discover Yourself)

Welty, Eudora

“Writing fiction has developed in me an abiding respect for the unknown in a human lifetime and a sense of where to look for the threads, how to follow, how to connect, find in the thick of the tangle what clear line persists. The strands are all there: to the memory nothing is ever really lost.” (Eudora Welty, One Writer’s Beginnings)

“I am a writer who came of a sheltered life. A sheltered life can be a daring life as well. For all serious daring starts from within.” (Eudora Welty, One Writer’s Beginnings)

“The memory is a living thing—it too is in transit. But during its moment, all that is remembered joins, and lives—the old and the young, the past and the present, the living and the dead.” (Eudora Welty, One Writer’s Beginnings)

[T]he greatest confluence of all is that which makes up the human memory—the individual human memory. My own is the treasure most dearly regarded by me, in my life and in my work as a writer. Here time, also, is subject to confluence. The memory is a living thing—it too is in transit. But during its moment, all that is remembered joins, and lives—the old and the young, the past and the present, the living and the dead. (Eudora Welty, One Writer’s Beginnings)

White, E. B.

“A poem compresses much in a small space and adds music, thus heightening its meaning.” (E. B. White, Essays of E.B. White)

“[C]reation is in part merely the business of forgoing the great and small distractions.” (E. B. White, Essays of E.B. White)

Bookmark this page next time you need a creative nudge or writing inspiration.

Further Reading:

• Quotes for Writers Category on this website
• Want to Be a Better Writer? Journal Before You Write (interview with Jennifer Dukes Lee)
• How to Compose the Perfect First Draft (includes quotes from Barbara Kingsolver, Anne Lamott, Jane Smiley)

Whether it’s a blog post or a book, you take a risk every time your finger hovers over “publish” to make that blog post go live or “send” to email that query or manuscript to an editor.

It seemed like such a great idea when you sat down to write. And you want people to read it. But now you worry…

Will anybody read it?

Are people going to make fun of me?

Am I going to be criticized?

Your words might as well be your fragile, pulsing heart, cupped in your hand and held out to the world.

You close your eyes and hope for readers…even as you silently plead, “Please don’t crush it. Please don’t slash it into a million bits.”

A Universal Struggle

If you second-guess yourself each time you send your words into the world, you’re not alone. You’re feeling what writers throughout the ages have felt, because it is a risk each time you click “publish.” In fact, I’ve only met one writer who seemed to feel utterly confident.

I was at a writing retreat in a breakout session where someone asked the leader what to do when we second-guess our writing.

He stared at her for a moment. “Why would you second-guess your writing?”

I thought he was being sarcastic, because I assumed it was universally understood that writers second-guess themselves all the time. But he wasn’t being sarcastic.

The exchange happened years ago, so I can’t recall details, but I remember he couldn’t relate to that feeling at all. Instead, he implied that if we develop the craft of writing, we should have the tools to know what we’re doing and feel completely confident.

I was spittin’ mad. I personally knew the writer who posed the question. She risked being vulnerable with us and the leader. For him to shoot her down like she was weak and unskilled infuriated me. I knew her writing and her personality—she was a gifted writer, consistently vulnerable through her personal stories and reflections. Readers loved what she had to say.

The leader who answered her with condescension wasn’t vulnerable in the least. I wondered if his readers connected with his work?

Vulnerability Matters

Reactions like this cause us to hesitate opening up, but they also reinforce why vulnerability matters so much in writing.

Even if you’re viewed as an expert or thought leader handing down wisdom, your readers need to know they’re not alone. They need to see that you’ve struggled and still found a way forward. Whether you’re a writer who regularly reveals your ongoing messy life or you’re someone who seems to have “arrived,” your vulnerable stories offer hope.

In fact, maybe I haven’t been vulnerable enough about my journey for you to see my struggle—and my way forward? Maybe you haven’t heard how I first held out my fragile, pulsing heart to the world?

In my university’s creative writing department, I thought I’d write fiction but found my voice instead through poetry. Free verse provided a flexible framework to be vulnerable while telling it slant. It offered a way to explore the confusion of my childhood without revealing the details I was sorting through.

Most of the poems fulfilled class assignments while giving me a way to dive deeper. But I risked rejection when I submitted some to our university’s undergraduate literary journal. I dared to share a few that touched on the intersection of wonder and worry, sensitivity and shame.

Anne Lamott pushes us to:

“[W]rite to expose the unexposed…the writer’s job is to see what’s behind [that one door we’ve been told not to go through], to see the bleak unspeakable stuff, and to turn the unspeakable into words—not just into any words but if we can, into rhythm and blues” (p. 198, Bird by Bird).

Given my fragile heart, I was afraid of negative responses to these tender poems. They weren’t bleak or unspeakable, but they were my attempts to subtly turn pain into poetry. I wanted to risk sharing my truth, if obliquely, so with a little nudge from my instructor, I risked submitting a select few.

The journal contacted me and asked to publish four. Four.

One of my poems, called “Runaway,” featured a fictional speaker inspired by an Andrew Wyeth painting. It won top prize.

Nobody sent in hate mail, and my first attempts at vulnerability made me braver.

Years later, I came across an essay entitled, “The Singular First Person” by author, poet, and essayist Scott Russell Sanders. In it he explains:

“I choose to write about my experience not because it is mine, but because it seems to me a door through which others might pass” (p. 8, Earth Works).

I didn’t have his perspective then. I wish I did, because it would have helped me see that publishing my poetry invited others to see the open door and peer in.

Writing Creates Connection

Your vulnerable writing, too, creates a door through which others might pass. Your honesty creates connection. Your stories are what stick.

Post that blog draft. Submit that article. Send that newsletter.

Remember why you write in the first place—to inform, to help, to connect, to entertain. Even more, to “turn the unspeakable into words—not just into any words but if we can, into rhythm and blues.”

Don’t be afraid. Your readers are waiting for exactly what you have to offer.

What will you risk sharing today?

Try This Prompt

When that literary journal said my poems were accepted, they asked for a bio that included the reason I write. On a whim, I sent this: “I write because no one listens to me.” I guess I hoped humor would soften how I felt deep down. I wanted to tell the truth; I wanted to be a little bit vulnerable.

My reason for writing is much different today, but identifying my “why” for writing keeps me going when fear of being too vulnerable (or any fear!) sets in.

Knowing your “why” could help you keep going, too. Here’s a simple prompt to help you voice it:

I write because…

Be specific, and be honest. And if it’s not too personal, reach out and let me read your why.

Resources

• My Writing Life Beginnings, Pt. 1
• My Writing Life Beginnings, Pt. 2
• Your Writing as a Gift (includes the Scott Russell Sanders quote)
• What Lies Beneath the Surface of Your Life
• Use What’s Happened to You, to Shape Your Writing
• Let Life Inspire Your Next Great Piece

An idea pops into your head, so you grab whatever paper product lies nearby and scribble down the thought. Or you come across a quote, story, or stat and realize it connects to your project. Convinced it’s all great material, you jot it down, then stuff the paper into your pocket or purse.

Now you’re ready to write, but you’re discovering random Post-Its, index cards, and the backs of envelopes—not to mention pages from notebooks and journals. And you’re wondering how these scattered notes and ideas could possibly be organized into a coherent structure for your article, essay, book, or blog post.

Where do you start?

Today, I’ll suggest one method to organize your notes. Let’s call it the Seek, Sort, and Stack approach.

What’s Your Big Idea or Driving Question?

For a specific project, a big idea or driving question has been guiding your note-taking, even if subconsciously. Given that, there are two primary approaches to organizing all your material:

• Top-down: Begin by creating a working outline based on that big idea and slot individual bits where they belong
• Bottom-up: Start with the individual pieces you’ve amassed, sorting them until they reveal a structure, then creating an outline that supports the big idea after the cards are in place

Most writers benefit from a hybrid approach—sorting enough to see patterns emerge, then crafting an outline that evolves as they continue developing the project.

But we’ll assume you’re taking a mostly bottom-up approach, creating an outline after you discover what you’ve got.

Analog Advantage: How Paper Notes Work

When I taught high school composition, my small class of home-schooled students balked at my insistence they use physical index cards during their research. “Why not just use Google Docs?” they’d protest. Index cards seemed outdated and archaic, like trading smartphones for carrier pigeons.

When “working-outline” day arrived, they began their top-down approach of physically moving cards to align with their term paper’s sections. One card might have a quote that worked perfectly in either the introduction or conclusion; a statistic might strengthen two different arguments. With this analog system, they could move the quote and statistic cards to one stack, over to another and back again until they determined the best spot.

On that day, most of them changed their minds about my old school method. They appreciated the freedom of rearranging ideas without scrolling through digital text. The analog method felt more like a puzzle as the card-sorting revealed holes in their research.

I’m not the only one recommending this old school technique. Ryan Holiday, bestselling author of books like The Obstacle Is the Way, swears by this analog method. He records notes on index cards he stores in a big box. When developing a new manuscript, he physically sorts and stacks these cards across a huge desk, finding connections until he lands on a flow that fits.

Seek, Sort, and Stack works well for a lot of writers. I suggest you try it at least once to see if it works for you.

Seek out the Scraps

How do you begin? First, collect every relevant note in one physical location.

Chances are, your notes aren’t recorded on index cards and tucked neatly into a box like Ryan’s modular system. If you’re like me, your handwritten notes are strewn about in various formats and locations:

• a quote thumb-typed into your phone’s Notes app
• barely legible lines scribbled on crumpled receipts in your wallet
• a quote on a sticky note stuck to your monitor
• annotation in the margins of books.

That’s okay. Seek out all the pertinent bits and assemble them in one place.

Empty your backpack. Swing past your bedside table midnight inspiration. Dig through your coat pockets and your purse. Check your phone’s notes app. Maybe you shoved some ideas in a drawer or shoe box months ago.

This gathering stage is crucial—after all, you can’t organize what you can’t see.

Sort & Stack

With everything visible, begin sorting each idea into thematic stacks. Don’t waste time copying everything onto uniform cards (though transferring crucial info from awkward scraps like a coffee-stained napkin might help).

For digital notes, create physical placeholders—in this case, index cards with keywords and source locations might be useful—so they integrate into your physical sorting system.

Ask yourself how each piece connects to your project’s central question. For example, if your work in progress is exploring how hard it is to live a slower lifestyle in our hectic culture, perhaps you’ve got notes on a minimalist’s philosophy, a nun’s contemplative insights, a psychologist’s concerns about technology speeding up our brains faster than they can handle.

The beauty of physically sorting is that you can see everything at once. Spread your notes across a table, floor, or even tape them to a big window or wall. Step back and observe the patterns.

As themes and topics emerge, you might discover you have seven different notes about morning routines that emphasize thoughtful starts to the day over rushed efficiency and productivity. Maybe that could be a chapter? A story about unhurried meals might suggest a chapter on slowing down our eating or simply serve as an introductory hook. And those concerns about technology speeding up our brains? Well, that’s why you’re going analog and slowing down this whole process.

Organize & Outline

Consider the most effective organization for these previously scattered notes and ideas. Now that they’re grouped, would it make sense to organize them chronologically? Thematically? Should you layer on a problem-solution outline or cause-effect?

What flow leads your reader through the ideas to a satisfying conclusion? This bottom-up approach leads you to create an outline based on how you’ve arranged your sorted stacks.

Transfer to Digital

Using your solidified outline, create a digital document with your working title and add section (or chapter) headings reflecting your outline. Then begin typing into the document each idea you preserved on those scraps of paper.

As you transfer each note to its digital home, include source information for proper attribution—as you now know, I did teach composition, so I urge you to give credit where credit is due.

This digital transfer stage serves as a change to refine your thoughts—you’ll naturally spot satisfying connections and holes in your logic as you develop and strengthen your claims.

Store your original stacks in a box and stick it on a closet shelf or shove it under a bed—they served their primary purpose contributing to this writing project. Keep it for just a little while longer in case you need to reference them later.

And celebrate this milestone: You’ve transformed your messy, chaotic fragments into a structured plan!

Write and Refine

Then comes the even more creative stage: with the content in place, you can craft your language and fill in gaps between ideas.

Best of all, you’re no longer worried you’ve forgotten some key piece of information stuffed in your wallet. Because you did the work of seeking, sorting, and stacking to develop your outline, you’re free to truly write—and with more clarity, ease, and speed.

Turn That Mess into Meaning

The Seek, Sort, and Stack approach honors your initial impulse to capture ideas by providing a method to transform scattered thoughts into structured prose.

All those notes are signaling you have something to say. Now it’s time to turn that mess into meaning—which is the work of a writer, as you figure out what to say and how to say it.

Resources:

• Try These Outlines
• Check out the 5-Minute Writer Free Gift
• Organize Yourself to Get the Most out of Your Next Writing Conference
• Watch Ryan Holiday’s process of writing a book (30 minute YouTube video shows him sort his cards)​
• See Ryan’s notecard system (images included)​

Get Your 5 Minute Writer Freebie

Grab this fillable workbook for ideas to make the most out of every writing opportunity. You’ll get:

• Lists of tiny tasks you can tackle when five minutes open up (so you can make progress—for both fiction and nonfiction writers!)
• Ideas for where to contain your research, ideas, and drafts
• Real-life proof from your writing coach that your writing life can expand in tiny openings

Find your publishing home without losing your voice: Literary agent Deidra Riggs reveals insider secrets on breaking into publishing while staying true to yourself—especially for women of color and writers with unconventional perspectives.

In this interview, you’ll discover…

• Insider secrets: Deidra reveals what draws her to a manuscript
• Authors’ authentic voices: Deidra supports clients, helping them navigating publishing without compromising their unique perspectives and voices
• Publishing reality check: Social media followers…do they matter as much as we think?
• Deidra’s wishlist: Learn what genres Deidra’s looking for (and how the main interest surprises her)
• Direct access: Deidra invites you to contact her directly with your work (a rare agent invitation!)

I don’t want authors to feel like they’ve had to make themselves smaller, change their message, change their voice or the essence of who they are just to get a book published.” —Deidra Riggs

About This Episode

Ever wondered what literary agents really look for in submissions? Or how to maintain your authentic voice in an industry that often demands conformity? Literary agent Deidra Riggs shares some of publishing’s hidden realities while sharing her journey from writer to agent at Embolden Media Group.

This isn’t just another “how to get published” conversation, however. Deidra reveals her process for deciding to work with an author, why this is a “risky time” for diverse voices in publishing, how she creates and searches for a nurturing “home” for authors (particularly women of color), and what makes her champion certain manuscripts in an increasingly challenging market.

Guest Spotlight: Literary Agent Deidra Riggs

Deidra is an author, speaker, coach, and consultant. Her extensive background includes writing, editing, and marketing for faith-based, nonprofit, and for-profit organizations. She is adept at shepherding a group or individual to the successful conclusion of a project, offering clear and accessible tools and guidance. Deidra is drawn to well-told stories with fresh viewpoints.

Whether fiction or nonfiction, she gravitates toward engaging, thoughtful, and creative first-rate narrative and out-of-the box perspectives that help us laugh, dream, heal, and grow (and go) forward. A Qualified Administrator of the Intercultural Development Inventory (IDI), Deidra lives in Connecticut.

The first thing I look at is when I read this first paragraph, Do I wanna read more? And if I wanna read more, then I wanna know, well, Who’s writing this? And that’s when I’ll go and look. And if it says you have 57 followers, I will write you back and say, “This is great. I’m concerned about your platform.” —Deidra Riggs

Timestamps for Quick Reference

0:00 Introduction to the publishing industry challenges
0:58 Welcoming Deidra Riggs, a literary agent who cares
2:07 Deidra’s journey from writer to literary agent
3:04 The influence of blogging on Deidra’s path
7:23 Deidra’s transition to publishing books
10:17 Joining Embolden Media Group as a literary agent
12:22 Building relationships with authors and editors
14:58 Creating a sense of “home” in the publishing process
16:50 Handling rejections and providing feedback
19:03 Assessing submissions and deciding to proceed
22:17 Platform requirements and starting a conversation
24:49 Discovering new writers and using social media
28:17 Encouragement for finding a publishing “home”
29:44 Exploring other publishing options
31:09 Balancing social media and new content for books
33:15 Deidra’s current interests (it surprises her)
35:10 Contacting Deidra and final thoughts

The women that I represent write as women of color, so they’re not trying to make anyone like them. They’re trying to be who they are and put out a message they feel called and led to put out into the world, and that’s a risky thing right now. —Deidra Riggs

Resources:

• Full Episode Information & Transcript
• Embolden Media Group
• Contact Deidra Riggs
• Craft Your Best Book Proposal (free on-demand webinar)
• Related: Interview with literary agent Lucinda Halpern

“I wish that [writers] knew that they deserve a place that feels like home. If they’re going to do it, they deserve a place that feels like home. And, yes, it is a business. I think we have for a long time put an emphasis on the business part of it. And to me, that’s a given. I mean, we live in a capitalist society. Of course it’s a business. Right? But the piece that we don’t treasure or allow ourselves to wish for is a place that treats us well and that we feel heard and seen and valued there. (Deidra Riggs)

FREE ON-DEMAND WEBINAR

Craft Your Best Book Proposal

If you have a non-fiction book inside you, the first step is to write a book proposal. In this training, I’m revealing what it takes to create this essential document and why its necessary for your publishing journey.

The webinar covers…

 why you need a book proposal
what a book proposal does for your book
the three things a publisher is looking for
how to start developing your own proposal!

Sign up for FREE

Transcript: You Deserve a Place That Feels Like Home – Literary Matchmaking with Deidra Riggs

(A lightly edited transcript for episode 278 of the Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach podcast; transcript may contain errors.)

Ann Kroeker [00:00:00]: The businessy aspects of the publishing industry can leave a writer feeling kinda bleh, and platform expectations, especially for authors of nonfiction, can feel overwhelming and discouraging. When you’ve got everything all lined up and you’re in the middle of pitching and querying, wouldn’t it be nice to know that the gatekeepers you’re interacting with, the literary agents, the acquisitions editors, wouldn’t it be nice if you knew that they cared? Today’s guest is a literary agent who genuinely cares, and she believes that you deserve a place to call home. Years ago, she and I worked together on an editorial team, and she was my managing editor. Today, she’s a guest on the show. Enjoy hearing what Deidra Riggs has to say about her own writing and publishing journey and about her role as a literary agent. I think you’ll appreciate the vision she has for the authors she represents and for writers everywhere, including you. I’m Ann Kroeker, writing coach. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome.

Ann Kroeker [00:00:58]: If you’re a regular, welcome back. Today, you’ve joined hundreds of established and emerging writers who are discovering ways to reach their writing goals and have fun by being more curious, creative, and productive. You’re tuning in to the Anne Kroeker writing coach podcast. This is episode 277. You deserve a place to call home, literary matchmaking with Deidra Riggs. I am so excited to host Deidra Riggs. She’s a literary agent with Embolden Media Group. Deidra is an author, speaker, coach, and consultant.

Ann Kroeker [00:01:30]: Her extensive background includes writing, editing, and marketing for faith based nonprofit and for profit organizations. She’s adept at shepherding a group or individual to the successful conclusion of a project, offering clear and accessible tools and guidance. Deidra is drawn to well told stories with fresh viewpoints. Whether fiction or nonfiction, she gravitates toward engaging, thoughtful, and creative first rate narrative and out of the box perspectives that help us laugh, dream, heal, and grow and go forward. A qualified administrator at the Intercultural Development Inventory, IDI, Deidra lives in Connecticut, and Deidra is here with us now. Deidra, welcome.

Deidra Riggs [00:02:07]: Hi, Ann. I’m so excited to be here. I’m really happy to be connecting with you again after a few years.

Ann Kroeker [00:02:13]: Same here. And in fact, you know, I’ve been part of one of your roles that you’ve held in the writing and editing and publishing journey that you’ve been on. And when did we first meet? It would have been

Deidra Riggs [00:02:27]: I don’t know. A long time ago.

Ann Kroeker [00:02:29]: Yeah. Maybe we shouldn’t say [laughs]. But you were in…first, we worked together where I was looking at some of your work and editing some of your work, and then you supervised me as an editor. So is that where you would kind of trace some of the early stages of shifting from writer to different roles? Maybe tell us a little bit about that journey, the writing and publishing aspect. Even though I mean, if we’re if we’re gonna get into it, you could talk about how that has woven together with other things you were doing at the time, because you were working whether part time or full time in addition to writing and editing.

Deidra Riggs [00:03:04]: Right. Right. Right. I think that writing probably is the thread through my whole life, and all the different things that I’ve done. So I I always look back at my life and I’m like, wow. What in the world? How who no one could have ever planned this, you know? And it’s not like it’s amazing or fantastic or anything. It’s just, like, very eclectic. And I think if you look at my resume and you’re trying to hire me, you’re like, but what what has she I don’t understand. What’s the connection? But when I was little, my mom taught me to read, and that was really important and just a really sweet experience.

Deidra Riggs [00:03:40]: And it opened up a world to me. And then I realized, oh, I can write words too. And I have always been like this deep probably, I don’t know that I’m an old soul. I really think I’m a younger soul, but I’m like a deep thinker and a deep feeler. And in my growing up, I didn’t really have a place to safely put those feelings and thoughts and my questions and, you know, all of that. And so I started writing, and I’m just like, in journals or I would just write on a piece of paper, and I just realized, oh my gosh. This is a thing. And then when I was in fifth grade, my fifth grade teacher secretly submitted an essay to some contest, and I won it.

Deidra Riggs [00:04:21]: And she told me I won this contest for writing, and I got to go to lunch with the governor. You know, it was a whole thing. And my mom got to go. And so that was, like, the first validation of, you can write. I mean, I don’t even remember what I wrote, but it was the first validation of writing is a thing, first of all, and that people recognize and care about and that you can do it. You’re good at it. And so it was just always like, my thing. And then, you know, fast forward to for me, it was 02/2008 when blogging was becoming this thing.

Deidra Riggs [00:05:00]: And I can remember the first time I heard about blogging, I was like, what the heck is a blog? That’s a terrible word. I hate the word. I don’t wanna be part of it. And, then we moved away to we moved to Nebraska, and I had no friends. There was no culture. I was not connecting with the people. It was just a terrible experience on many levels for me. And then I found this community of blogging.

Deidra Riggs [00:05:28]: So that was the thing that connected me. And I think it introduced me as a writer to a larger world of people who had similar ways of expressing themselves and looking at the world. And I don’t know if you remember back then, but we had those link up things. And so, like, people would host those link ups and you’d write your thing and link it up and then go and read theirs. And so through that, I started to see, oh, there’s different ways to write and there are different ways that people express what they’re feeling and what they’re thinking. And, then I got connected to The High Calling, which was you know, and I think back then, blogging was also a way that literary agents, editors, publishers were looking to find people who could write new voices, fresh takes. And it really opened up lots of opportunities for moms and single people and older people who were just sitting in their homes, usually writing on their in their journal, but now publicly, to get introduced. And so the high calling was a community of people who wrote about faith and work in that intersection.

Deidra Riggs [00:06:42]: And, the editor that would they would do that as well. They would have those link up things and so you could meet people through that. And somehow, I got invited to write as a what were we? A country?

Ann Kroeker [00:06:55]: Oh, contributing writer? Contributing editor? Yeah.

Deidra Riggs [00:06:59]: Yeah. And so I would write regularly. And I think that’s probably my first. No. Because I was writing for another group too, Encourage. But it was the first time that I was, like, writing. Someone wanted my writing for their vehicle platform to put out into the world. And so I learned a lot through that.

Deidra Riggs [00:07:23]: You know, people were editing my writing. They were critiquing my writing. They were making it better. They were making me sad. They were making me you know, all of those things. But they were making me better. They were making me a better writer. And so I just continued.

Deidra Riggs [00:07:43]: So and and now that no one very few people will be able to make a living at that. Just like right now, very few people are able to make a living as influencers or, you know, whatever it is. There are very, very few writers actually become New York Times bestsellers. So I had other jobs. You know, I was working at the YMCA. I was in a up an executive director there. No. Not I was in an executive something.

Deidra Riggs [00:08:13]: I can’t remember what it was. But I have to be clear, was an executive director. And, then I went to work for an insurance company, and I was doing marketing for them. So that was all writing. And at the Y, it was membership. So that was also at that time, like, telling the story of the YMCA. And, so that was writing again. And then I got invited to be a managing editor at the High Calling, and I was able to do that full time.

Deidra Riggs [00:08:39]: And that was just so fun. I think we just had a great group of people, and it felt very not hierarchical. It just felt like we were trying to do this good thing for the world with our words and also learning to be better at it. And then, you know, life just kept going. And the High Calling actually was sold, and they moved to Boston and wanted all their people to be in Boston. And I wasn’t going but to Boston. So I went back to insurance. But somewhere in there, somebody contacted me, and I ended up publishing two books.

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Deidra Riggs [00:09:22]: And so then I learned about publishing. I started to learn about publishing. And not too long ago, I was working with a group of women, all women of color, and we were working on an anthology that’s coming out in 02/1926. And it was really amazing. And one of those women had worked as an edit, literary agent for Embolden Media Group. And we knew that there was an opening at Embolden, and I said, well, why not? I’ll ask if this is something that I can do. And since I reached out to Jovan, who I had followed and admired for she’s the founder and owner of Embolden Media Group. And she I think we must have had mutual attraction or whatever to each other because she was like, no way.

Deidra Riggs [00:10:17]: You wanna with this agency? And I was like, I don’t know what I’m doing yet, but, yes, I would love to. And so that was back. It’s almost been a year now that I’ve been working as a literary agent with Embolden and having a blast. So that was a lot of

Ann Kroeker [00:10:34]: No. That was fabulous. I’m really relieved that you were feeling positive about the years you were a managing editor at my calling since I was under your leadership. Amazing. I loved it too, but I am glad to hear that you did. Mhmm. And, that and that writing experience. Yeah.

Ann Kroeker [00:10:49]: I had a similar path that went from blogging to editing to this. Well, I didn’t end up becoming a literary agent, and you did. And so you what you are doing. Well, I do love what you’re doing. I I’m part I feel like I’m part of You are. That that time between, like, I wanna write a book and Uh-huh. I need a literary agent, and they don’t know what to do in that time period.

Deidra Riggs [00:11:10]: Yeah. 

Ann Kroeker [00:11:11]: I try to tee them up and send them your way fully prepared.

Deidra Riggs [00:11:14]: Love it. Love it.

Ann Kroeker [00:11:15]: So, yeah, I love this moment too where you realize there’s an opening and you reach out to Jevon, and you said, I don’t know what I’m doing, but I wanna do it. So tell me about that. So she said, let’s do it or something. Right? And then she brings you on. And then is there mentoring involved? Like, what does it take to become a literary agent?

Deidra Riggs [00:11:34]: Yeah. I think that the skill or my natural whatever that helps me a lot is I am able to make deep connections with people. And I also am good at following my gut leads me well. And I just know I’ve learned to trust that. I just know who I’m gonna be able to work with, and I know who I’m not gonna be able to work with. And I’ve learned to see that as a gift for all of us because if it’s not gonna be fun to work with you, you’re not gonna like me, and I’m it’s not gonna be fun. And so let’s just cut this off at the beginning. And so I feel like I am building these amaze these relationships with these amazingly creative people.

Deidra Riggs [00:12:22]: I am telling you, the things that people are writing and thinking and wanting to put out into the world, it is I just feel honored that I am getting a first look that they’re even willing to let me look at, you know, to just look at it. It blows my mind. I just think that the future of literature and writing with it’s just I it’s just only gonna get better. It’s just getting better and better and better. And so I’m excited about that. Why am I telling you that part? I don’t know. But I’m telling you sharing that part with you. Oh, because of building the relationship.

Deidra Riggs [00:13:04]: Because that’s really what it’s about is making for me, I want my authors to know that I am there for them, that I I I’ve been on that side where I’m an author and working with a publisher. Sorry about my dog. So the thing that is really important to me is that I know what’s important to you know, I know my offer and what’s important to them because I want their publishing house to feel like home to them. I don’t want them to feel like I mean, there is a business part to it, but I don’t want them to feel like they’ve had to make themselves smaller, change their message, change their voice or the essence of who they are just to get a book published. If that’s happening, I don’t want I don’t want them to be at that publishing house. And I want them to think that, like right now they’re some of them are like, I have this book, this one book that I’ve been writing for fifteen years. Well, how are you gonna give that to a publishing house that isn’t gonna honor that? Right? I don’t want that. I want them to find the place that honors that fifteen years of your life that you gave to that.

Deidra Riggs [00:14:21]: So that and so it’s building the relationship with the author, but also with the editors. So I know, the acquisitions editors, whether or not they’re gonna be that person for my person. Because I want them to be that person for my person, and I also want my person to be that person for them. Right? Because it’s all for me, it’s all about relationship. And, yeah, let’s do a New York Times bestseller book. But if you feel like you had to compromise your soul for that, is that really I don’t wanna be part of that. Maybe there are people who don’t mind that, but that’s not me. That’s not who I am.

Deidra Riggs [00:14:58]: And Yeah. And I’m not…I don’t feel, I don’t need to have an author who has a New York Times bestseller book. That’s not my motivation. I want my author to get a New York Times bestseller book if that’s what they want and to celebrate that. And I wanna celebrate that with them. But, mainly, I want them to get more people seeing these beautiful things they’re creating. I mean, I can’t do what they’re doing. They are amazing.

Deidra Riggs [00:15:37]: I can make it better. I can push them and challenge them. I can, ask good questions, you know, all of that. But I did not create the essence of what they’re sending out into the world, and that is just an honor. I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but that’s what is going on with with me.

Ann Kroeker [00:15:59]: And as long as some of the terms you’ve used, I want them I want to feel like they’re at a home. Like, this is home. And that’s such a different terminology than what we’re used to, which is we were about this is a business partnership. We have this business document called a book proposal if it’s non nonfiction. And so much of it feels like the business aspect and it’s almost like you’re stripping all that away and saying, yes. I’ll do some business negotiations for you, but only as it serves you in this project. And I’ll do the matchmaking that I feel is possible. And hopefully, you know, they’ll choose you. But does that mean, though, if you’re being choosy on their behalf based on the conversations you’ve had with your authors, does that mean that some projects are just, like, parked until you find the right fit? Or how is what’s that like, that process of waiting for the right fit for your authors? 

Deidra Riggs [00:16:50]: It is, like, that’s the roller coaster. It’s like trying to find the person who’s gonna open your email. Right? Who’s gonna open your email, first of all? And then who is going to be able to hear what this author is trying to put out into the world? So sometimes I’ll send it out on submission and I hear right back, like, I just want you to know I got this. Thank you so much for sending it to me. I probably won’t get to it for whatever, but I’m gonna get back to you. Sometimes I get, I need more information. So I’ll send them more information. Sometimes it’s not right away, but they’ll come back and say this isn’t a good fit for us.

Deidra Riggs [00:17:34]: If that happens, I go back and I say, can you just give me some feedback? Can you let me know, you know, what is the thing that held you up the how the house? Is it the writing? Is it the pacing? Is it the concept? Is it the writer? You know, what are those things? I don’t always get the answer to that. But when people do give me the answer, so grateful for that. And I take it back to the author. This is the feedback that I’m getting. And every time I take the feedback to them, the author is like, this is amazing. Thank you so much. They said no to my book, but I know why. Yeah. These are things I’m willing to change. These are things I’m not willing to change, and so I’ll have to sit with this for a while and figure out what to do next. You know, it’s all relationship. It’s all relationship. And just trying to…no one has said, this is a terrible book. Why did you send this to me? Right?

Ann Kroeker [00:18:27]: You wouldn’t send that out, I’m imagining. Yeah.

Deidra Riggs [00:18:31]: It’s all very good positive feedback. I think that right now, especially the way book publishing is changing, and publishers are frightened, to some degree. They’re not as willing to take risks that they may have taken back in night in 2016, 2020. Things are different now. And so there is some hesitation to for me, especially as representing all of my authors are people of women of color right now. Many new voices, mostly new voices, and so that’s risky for a publisher right now. And the women that I represent write as women of color, so they’re not being they’re not trying to make anyone like them. They’re trying to be who they are and put out a message they feel called and led to put out into the world, and that’s a risky thing right now.

Ann Kroeker [00:19:33]: What’s it like for someone to come to you with their project? Maybe you know them, maybe you don’t, but you have to reject them. Tell me about that process of rejection because, you know, we all as authors—I’m saying we’re just sort of collectively thinking about all the writers and authors dreaming of it. They send out their project. They get that rejection. Like, talk about it from your side of the desk.

Deidra Riggs [00:19:55]: Well, normally, like, I will know within five minutes whether I wanna read or hear more about this person or this book. And so they’ll send me something. I’ll open it up, and I…first of all, am I intrigued by what they’re writing? And it really is a quick gut check. Like, yes or no. If I am intrigued, then I will go and research them. Who is this person? Does anybody know them? Because the platform is still a big deal. And then I will, if I feel that they don’t have to have a big platform. If they’re writing a song, they have a big concept, I’m willing to have a conversation.

Deidra Riggs [00:20:36]: Will you send me something I can read? But if I reopen it up and I just am not connecting, I don’t you don’t need to keep hoping I’m gonna you don’t need to be sitting at home waiting for me to tell you no. When you could be talking to other people who might say yes. It doesn’t mean it’s a bad book. It just doesn’t I didn’t I don’t get it. I don’t like it. It’s not holding my attention. But that doesn’t mean it’s not for someone. And it’s better for me to just say, this is not good for me.

Deidra Riggs [00:21:07]: It’s not a good fit for me. And I wanna submit you that. And sometimes I’ll say, I’m sure you’ll find a great place for it. I won’t always say that. But sometimes I’ll say, I’m sure you’ll find a great place. I wish you the best. I have said, if you work on this and feel like you wanna send it back to me at some point, I’d be happy to look at it then. And then sometimes I just get weird ones and I don’t reply.

Deidra Riggs [00:21:37]: Because I don’t even…I feel like they were just, like, maybe riding on the subway and they had an idea and they typed it out on their phone and sent it to me. And I say, I don’t reply to those usually.

Ann Kroeker [00:21:49]: They didn’t understand the process properly.

Deidra Riggs [00:21:52]: Yeah. Yeah.

Ann Kroeker [00:21:53]: Okay. So what would be a starting point? If somebody’s writing non—let’s talk nonfiction first. I know I have people listening in and tuning in who write fiction, but let’s talk about nonfiction, because of the platform element. Where’s the like, if somebody were going to submit, but they really ought to wait to get some sort of threshold just to start the conversation. We’re recording this early in 2025. What would be your current threshold to say? That’s enough to start the conversation.

Deidra Riggs [00:22:22]: Yeah. I would start it I’d start a conversation at 2,500 followers

Ann Kroeker [00:22:27]: on 2,500, not 25,000. Oh, nice. And that’s followers on one platform?

Deidra Riggs [00:22:32]: Or On that one platform.

Ann Kroeker [00:22:34]: And that one platform can be anything, any of the public facing places?

Deidra Riggs [00:22:39]: Yes. But if it’s a good concept and they’re a good writer because I think there’s three things that we’re looking for, a good concept, good writing, and a platform. So the platform is just one of those. And sometimes you might not have a whole lot of followers on Instagram, but people know you. Right? Because you just haven’t focused on social media. But I am gonna want you then to know we’re not submitting this book right away. You’re gonna work on growing your platform because that’s what the publishers wanna see.

Deidra Riggs [00:23:17]: They wanna see that you have people who are gonna buy this book, and I’m not gonna send it to them if you have 2,500 public or followers. But I will talk to you, and I will see if you’re interested in growing your platform. And if you’re interested in growing your platform, then let’s talk about that and what does that mean. And I’m sorry that that’s a real thing, but it is a real thing. And since you wanna be published, it’s something you’re gonna have to work on.

Ann Kroeker [00:23:43]: And what would be a number that would make you feel like, oh, I could take this out right away once we finalize the proposal?

Deidra Riggs [00:23:51]: 250,000.

Ann Kroeker [00:23:53]: Okay. I knew it had grown. A lot of my writers are like, “They keep moving the goalposts!” You know? “But just when I get close, they’re like, boom.” And then…

Deidra Riggs [00:24:01]: That’s for me. That’s for me. I mean, if you, or Oprah sends me something and, you know, whatever. And she somehow has zero followers. Well, something has happened then that she has zero followers. But, you know, if the right—under the right circumstance like, those are not hard and fast. I’m not gonna say no just because you have a thousand followers. I’m gonna look at your concept.

Deidra Riggs [00:24:21]: I’m gonna look at your writing. And the platform’s not the first thing I look at. The first thing I look at is when I read this first paragraph, do I wanna read more? And if I wanna read more, then I wanna know, well, who’s writing this? And that’s when I’ll go and look. And if it says you have 57 followers, I will write you back and say, this is great. I’m concerned about your platform.

Ann Kroeker [00:24:49]: Okay. That’s honest. And it’s realistic given the current state of things. How do you find authors you wanna rep?

Deidra Riggs [00:25:00]: Really? I know people are on TikTok. I don’t understand TikTok. I’m sorry. I like Instagram, and so that’s where I am. And usually, people who are serious about getting published or do you know, like, being influencers or whatever, they’ll say I they’ll I can see I have this many Instagram followers, but they’ll also say, I have this many on TikTok. I have this many on YouTube. Go to these channels. You know? So they’re aware that that’s important.

Ann Kroeker [00:25:27]: What about email subscribers? I have heard that the gold standard is if you have a lot of subscribers.

Deidra Riggs [00:25:35]: I think it’s social media right now. I think email is important. It really is. But a lot of people don’t want emails in their inbox, and so they’re not subscribing, and they’re going to the content that they want.

Ann Kroeker [00:25:49]: So That’s good to hear. I mean, good to understand.

Deidra Riggs [00:25:52]: Yeah. And then, and then people like, for a hot minute, I said, I’m not accepting any more submissions because I wanna do a good job for the ones that I have. And then people were emailing me and saying, my friend said she sent you something, and she got a message back that said you’re not accepting subscribers. So I will accept people referring stuff to me for sure. And then I took that off, and I said, I’m just open. And once I opened it again I got the most amazing submissions.

Ann Kroeker [00:26:26]: Well, let’s see. So the slush pile or whatever do you wanna call it, it works. And you have a process, you process them some way where you flag them, star them, or whatever. 

Deidra Riggs: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really interesting. And I’m all I just have always loved to build relationships with people. And that doesn’t mean, like, I’m collecting friends because I don’t have a whole lot of people in my life. But I do feel like when you encounter a person in a day, that’s a relationship. It may be a very short, like, five minute long relationship, but it’s a relationship. And I think that’s my approach to the world, and it’s helpful in this industry.

Ann Kroeker [00:27:13]: Oh, boy. That’s good. Yeah. So that seems like a value that drives everything you’re doing. What do you wish all writers knew about writing and publishing?

Deidra Riggs [00:27:28]: Oh, what do I wish they all knew about writing and publishing? I wish that they knew that they deserve a place that feels like home. If they’re going to do it, they deserve a place that feels like home. And, yes, it is a business. I think we have for a long time put an emphasis on the business part of it. And to me, that’s a given. I mean, we live in a capitalist society. Of course it’s a business. Right? But the piece that we don’t treasure or allow ourselves to wish for is a place that treats us well and that we feel heard and seen and valued there.

Deidra Riggs [00:28:17]: I think we always feel lucky if that happens. And there is that sense of luck. I feel that publishers could work harder at feeling like home. And I feel like the more writers understand that they deserve to feel like they’re at home, that those things could possibly change along the way. And I think it’s fine. I mean, it’s out there. You can find people who feel like home.

Ann Kroeker [00:28:51]: If a writer is just running up against walls, they’re getting rejected, rejected, rejected, rejected. How do you feel about other publishing options available to them?

Deidra Riggs [00:29:03]: Yeah. I mean, I think the world is changing. And, we vote with our money in many ways in America and other places that sell books. And, eventually, things change. And you might get left behind, because there are people self publishing now. Writers don’t have to rely on these big gatekeepers to get their books published. And writers who—I mean, there is this thing. You have to have the resources to be able to do it, and that’s a whole different conversation.

Ann Kroeker [00:29:44]: Yeah.

Deidra Riggs [00:29:46]: But there are ways. I mean, a woman did a story on TikTok that became a book. Right? 

Ann Kroeker: Anything’s possible right now. 

Deidra Riggs: Anything’s possible. And for publishers, if they’re comfortable in thinking they are the ultimate gatekeeper, I think they’re gonna get left behind because in a minute, they’re not gonna be the ultimate gatekeeper. There are so many other ways. We saw it in a different way back in the blogging days because so many people got book contracts then from blogging. I mean, they got sought out. They weren’t putting their manuscript in an envelope and sending it through the post office. They put it on their computer at home, and people were saying, “I wanna publish a book that you write.” So, of course, things are gonna continue to change.

Ann Kroeker [00:30:42]: Do you feel like people who are writing nonfiction, if they put some of that material out there, maybe a lot of that material that’s gonna go into the book in different formats—maybe one piece that’s gonna be in chapter three, there’s an idea they’re testing on YouTube, and then something else on Instagram, a little quote that’s gonna be in there. And how do you feel about that? About some of it showing up in different places before they’ve published, before they’ve or maybe when they are under submission?

Deidra Riggs [00:31:09]: Yeah. I do think so it’s all…I’m relational. Right? So the author has a relationship with their followers too, and you need to respect that and be fair. And they don’t wanna…they will because they love you, but they don’t wanna pay money for something they’ve already seen that you said for free. So some of that, yes. I mean, like, some people have catch phrases that they use all the time and your reader is gonna expect to see that in the book. But if your book is everything or mostly over 50% what’s already been published, I would feel disappointed in that as a reader. And as a follower of you, I would feel like, if all you did was take your stuff that I already read and put it in a book, and now I’m paying you for it? No. I don’t wanna do that. Okay. And so as an author, to respect your reader, respect your follower, and do some work to come up with some new content for them.

Ann Kroeker [00:32:10]: If somebody did have—you mentioned a catchphrase—if I had something kind of real special that would connect the potential title, the working title and I wanted to test it, but now it’s out there….there’s a fear I’m finding with writers that somebody else will, “Oh, that’s great! I’m gonna use!” Should they be kinda holding some of these things a little bit? Hold them close? Or should they go in and get it out there and connect their name to the idea or phrase?

Deidra Riggs [00:32:35]: Yeah. I think it’s interesting because I was just at the airport and you know, in the bookstore, and I saw some book titles that I have seen before. And they’re out there. So it’s a whole different book, but it’s the same title that’s been used before. I think that if you are talking to your agent, for example, and you have this working book title, there’s a date on your email that you’re talking to them about it, and you can say, I had that title on 03/03/2025. You can see in this email, and then you know it’s yours. If will you ever have to I mean, I’ve had that conversation with people. I don’t wanna put my book title out there.

Deidra Riggs [00:33:15]: Well, okay. You don’t need to put it out on Instagram. But if you see somebody with it, you can say, hang on. I had that title back here. And you can re you can pull up your email to talk about it. I think you can say it if you want to. But also, I I don’t know that I would do that before I had an agent or before I was in some kind of talks with a publisher.

Ann Kroeker [00:33:40]: Yeah. Okay. That’s so helpful. You have really poured out a lot of good information to writers who were wondering and thinking, and how would they know if they’re a good fit for you? Just, like, reread what you’re looking for? And where do they go?

Deidra Riggs [00:33:58]: I’d say send it to me. I mean, I’m not opposed to you sending it to me. I love seeing what people are writing. It just blows my mind every day. And the more that I’m doing this, just so you know, and it’s not on the website right now, I’m really being drawn lately to magical realism. So if people are writing stuff like that, I would love to see it, especially if it’s got a character or they’ve built a world that’s mostly people of color, and it connects back to the history of that family or but it also is looking to the future, I love that. Like, A Wrinkle in Time, by Madeleine L’Engle, but from people of color, you know, because we have all that. Octavia Butler, right? All of that. And I’m surprised that I’m drawn to it, but I love it. Send it to me.

Ann Kroeker [00:34:50]: Great. So novels and nonfiction, but you just touched right now, that’s current as of this recording, that’s what you wanna see more.

Deidra Riggs [00:34:57]: And I love memoir. I do love that. It’s hard to sell, but I love it. And, I like historical fiction, but that’s also really difficult to sell right now. I just people want to know.

Ann Kroeker [00:35:11]: Yeah. They need to know.

Deidra Riggs [00:35:12]: Anything that you wanna send me.

Ann Kroeker: And things change. Right? The market’s interest shifts over time.

Deidra Riggs [00:35:19]: And I like talking to writers about their writing. And I like to, if they want it, you know, if they want feedback, I’m happy to give that. I love to do that.

Ann Kroeker [00:35:31]: That’s great. I will keep my ear to the ground too just listening for people who might be a good fit. Yeah. Where should I send them? Where should we send them today?

Deidra Riggs [00:35:41]: You can send them to my email, deidra.riggs@emboldenmediagroup.com. I know it’s a lot. Right? And then I’m on Instagram at @DeidraRiggs. Those are probably the two main places to get in touch with me.

Ann Kroeker [00:35:56]: And you don’t mind if they message you, fella? I don’t.

Deidra Riggs [00:35:58]: No. Right. Go right ahead.

Ann Kroeker [00:36:00]: Well, thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your wisdom and for all that you’re learning. You’re kind of just getting going here, and I hope that you continue to find people who just wow you with what they’re doing.

Deidra Riggs [00:36:12]: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks for the invite. It was fun.

Ann Kroeker [00:36:15]: If you feel like you and your project are a good fit for Deidra, you heard. You can just reach right out to her. Just to confirm her spelling, she spells her first name d e i d r a, Deidra Riggs. This episode is brought to you by “Craft Your Best Book Proposal.” This free, on-demand webinar tells you what goes into a book proposal and why you need one because I want you to feel confident going forward in your publishing journey. You can learn more at annkroeker.com/bestbookproposal. And I’m Ann Kroeker, cheering you on as a writing coach in your ear. Everywhere we may meet, at my website, on this show, in your inbox, or even in person, I’m always looking for ideas to share with you that will help you achieve your goals and have fun by being more curious, creative, and productive. Thank you for being here.

FREE ON-DEMAND WEBINAR

Craft Your Best Book Proposal

If you have a non-fiction book inside you, the first step is to write a book proposal. In this training, I’m revealing what it takes to create this essential document and why its necessary for your publishing journey.

The webinar covers…

 why you need a book proposal
what a book proposal does for your book
the three things a publisher is looking for
how to start developing your own proposal!

Sign up for FREE

On a chilly December afternoon in 2014, I closed the door to my bedroom, swallowed back nerves—even trembled a little as I held a tiny earpiece as a microphone. Then I cleared my throat and recorded my first podcast episode that lasted all of two minutes.

At that point a seasoned author, I forgot what it felt like to send something into the world for the first time. I’d done it for decades with my voice on the page or the screen. With a podcast, I was sending my actual voice into the world for the first time. How would people react? Would these episodes find their way into writers’ ears? I was a beginner again.

First Facing Fears

I fretted over editing, even though my initial vision for using audio was to give myself a simpler way to share ideas. I thought I could wing it. I thought it would be simple. But I realized a more focused, tight delivery would serve listeners better, so I started by outlining and writing a script. This added more time and tasks, but it gave people another way to enjoy the ideas without wasting any of their time with rambling and repetition.

Next Facing Discouragement

Only a few people listened to those first episodes. My friend Charity listened. My mentors. A few friends. I probably forced my husband to help with audio editing questions, but that may have been it.

Publishing episode after episode proved daunting when I looked at the stats and saw only a few people tuning in. I kept going, though, because I enjoyed it. Truly. I loved sending off ideas as a podcast episode, in that medium.

When I first told people about it, they told me they couldn’t find it on their podcast player. They searched and searched, but…nothing. I phoned the good people at Blubrry, my podcast host, to help diagnose several technological mishaps on my part, which resulted in a name change from The Writing Life with Ann Kroeker to the Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach podcast. With those few changes, people could finally find the podcast.

From Humble Beginnings to Global Reach

In time, more listeners downloaded the show. A friend with a huge following shared it one afternoon and that introduced me to her readers. My listening stats showed a bump because of that and the numbers continued to rise: and every number, an individual writer I hoped to encourage.

Ten years later, looking back at those humble beginnings in late 2014, I can see how the determination to start—even when I didn’t know what I was doing, even when I was scared—led to a decade of growth and connection. I grew as a coach, writer, speaker, and podcaster, and writers have told me the ideas I’ve shared have helped them grow in their courage, craft, and confidence.

If that’s you, thank you. Thank you for being part of this journey.

While I don’t obsess over data, I’m floored to realize how it’s grown into a platform that reaches writers worldwide. I thought you might enjoy seeing the top 10 countries where writers are listening to the “Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach” podcast. You might even be in one of them!

Top 10 Countries

Here are the top 10 countries based on listener downloads:

1. United States
2. Canada
3. United Kingdom
4. Australia
5. Germany
6. India
7. Japan
8. Netherlands
9. South Africa
10. France

Top 10 Downloaded Episodes of All Time (as of this recording in January 2025)

The most downloaded episodes must reflect what resonates most. Enjoy browsing the top 10 downloaded episodes of all time (as of January 2025), in case one of them resonates with you:

1. 10 Ways to Start the Writing Process When You’re Staring at a Blank Page
2. Prepare for Publishing with Insights from Literary Agent Lucinda Halpern
3. What’s a Writing Coach (and what kind do I need)?
4. Find Your Book Midwife, Say “Yes” Before You’re Ready, Pitch to Build Platform, and Authentically Engage with Readers (interview with author Clarissa Moll)
5. How Simple Systems Can Unlock Your Writing Productivity, with Kari Roberts
6. Validate Your Idea to Produce Your Best Project (Back to Basics)
7. Embrace These 4 Key Roles for a Flourishing Writing Life
8. How to Make Time to Write and Develop a System to Take Notes, with Bryan Collins
9. Improve Your Writing by Getting Back to Basics
10. How to Hook and Hold Your Readers

First 3 Interviews:

For the first four years of podcasting for writers, I produced only short solo episodes. In 2018, I began to incorporate interviews and since then, I’ve introduced you to 16 writing and publishing professionals, inviting them to share their wisdom and insights.

My first three interviews were with:

1. Shawn Smucker
2. Patrice Gopo
3. Alison Hodgson

Top 2 Series

Two cornerstone series emerged over the years that continue to guide writers: Your Writing Platform, and What Do I Write Next.

Your Writing Platform Series:

For the Your Writing Platform series, I helped writers understand that platform-building isn’t about being a wandering troubadour, but about finding your focus and connecting authentically with readers who resonate with your message.

1. Your Writing Platform Needs a Home Base: An Author Website
2. Your Writing Platform: The Need for Focus
3. Your Writing Platform: What Fascinates, Captivates, and Energizes you
4. Your Writing Platform: How to Confirm Your Niche
5. Your Writing Platform: Who Is Your Who?
6. Your Writing Platform: What’s the Definition of Platform (and Do I Really Need One)?
7. Your Writing Platform: Do People Expect Writers to Be Speakers
8. Now Is the Time to Start Building Your Platform
9. Your Writing Platform: First Steps to Launching Your Social Media Presence (related: You can Impact Readers Right Now Through Social Media)

What Do I Write Next Series:

This series addressed the perpetual question of creative direction, encouraging writers to explore their “vein of gold” while staying open to experimentation.

1. What Do I Write Next: How to Decide What to Write Next
2. What Do I Write Next: Why Write Small When You Want to Go Big?
3. What Do I Write Next: Why Not a Series?
4. What Do I Write Next: Enjoy Your Vein of Gold
5. What Do I Write Next: Experiment and Expand Your Repertoire

Start Your Own Scary Project

For that first-ever episode, I decided the best thing to do was to give myself the advice I gave my writing clients all the time: just get started.

If you’re hung up on a project and you don’t know how to launch it, or you don’t know how to outline it, or you don’t know where you’re going with the ideas, just get started.

Once you start, you’ll get in motion.

When you get in motion, you’ll get clarity.

And when you get clarity, you’ll get both vision and specifics, and you’ll be able to get the thing done. You’ll solve your problems as you go. You’ll discover new solutions. And in the end, you’ll have a product.

It may or may not be what you thought it would be when you started out—and you may adapt and evolve as you go along—but you’ll never get there if you don’t start.

So that’s my message to you both then and now, as I look back on the ten years I’ve been speaking to you about your writing life.

Do you have something you haven’t started yet because you’re afraid, worried, uncertain?

Don’t put it off any longer. Your audience is out there. Just get started.

Resources

• All Podcasts (with summaries for browsing)
• Blubrry (you can check out my podcast host; affiliate link, which means I’ll receive a small commission from Blubrry as a thank you)

Join us in Your Platform Matters (YPM)

YPM is a warm and welcoming membership community committed to creative, meaningful ways we can grow our platform and reach readers—check us out!

TELL ME MORE!

A few years ago, a client came to me with an idea for a nonfiction book. She was ready to write a draft and send it to a publishing house. What she didn’t realize was that she was working a few steps ahead.

Thankfully, we met early enough in the process that I was able to fill her in on the steps she’d need to take to pursue traditional publishing—allowing her to sidestep a lot of mistakes that would have slowed her down. 

Even though she didn’t need to write the entire manuscript before taking her next steps, her instinct to do so was to be commended. After all, how was she supposed to know about the ins and outs of publishing  without any prior experience?

Is it possible you’re also making one (or more) of the biggest mistakes nonfiction writers make—simply because you don’t know what you don’t know? 

Let’s explore—and learn how to avoid—the common mistakes writers make as they develop and complete their first nonfiction book.

Mistake #1: Writing Without a Plan

A common mistake nonfiction authors make is attempting to write their book without a clear roadmap or structure.

Often, within the first chapter or so, they realize the magnitude of the project ahead and overwhelm settles in—derailing their initial excitement. 

Without a defined plan or structure in place, ideas tend to sprawl and lack cohesion. The missing element? A book proposal—a necessary business document used in traditional publishing. For you and me, it serves as a plan to make your nonfiction book a reality. 

In a book proposal, writers define a clear thesis statement and outline the central argument that will be supported throughout the book. Writers outline the book chapter by chapter, creating a framework that ensures they’re crafting a message they want to share with their ideal reader.

A book proposal also includes key elements that force you to think through details, such as the book’s purpose, its special features, and its ideal reader, which add to the plan and guide your research and writing.

Writing without a plan is the first big mistake…and creating a plan is how to solve it. 

Mistake #2: Writing Before Deciding on a Publishing Path

Another mistake writers make is writing before determining the publishing path they want to take. Before developing your manuscript, be sure to pause and consider if you plan to pursue traditional publishing or plan to self-publish. 

If you know you want to go the traditional path, then you need a book proposal, and that proposal will include sample chapters—typically about three for a first-time author. These chapters will serve as prototypes, guiding the direction and flow of content for the entire book. While not all of the subsequent chapters need to mirror the initial ones you turn in with your book proposal, they still set the foundation for the rest of the manuscript.  

If self-publishing is your goal, then you will need to fully complete the manuscript. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider creating a book proposal. Self-published authors often find it useful to work through parts of the book proposal, such as categories your book will fall into, which you’ll need for the back cover and in your Amazon or online listing.

For memoir, specifically, you’ll also need a completed manuscript and a complete book proposal to submit to publishers with your own unique storyline and viewpoint. 

So, what publishing path do you hope to pursue? Be sure to consider the right path for your book before diving too deep into the process of writing.

Mistake #3: Overthinking the Book & Not Writing Anything

Overthinking a book to the point of paralysis is another common problem I see with writers. Some fear that they’re not going to be able to fit everything they want to say in their book. Other writers fear that their work has already been said by somebody else and there’s no reason to write their book. Either situation can shut a writer down before they even begin.

If you find yourself here, go back to the first “mistake” and start crafting a plan. Create a framework for your book that addresses your reader’s felt needs and offers them the transformation they seek. 

Once you’ve done the hard work of creating a book proposal—determining your book’s purpose and how it will serve your readers—the actual writing of the book won’t feel all that complicated. Mapping out a book is like outlining and sets you up for success when you sit down to write chapters.

The next hurdle is deciding how each chapter will flow. You could start each chapter with a compelling story or offer an anecdote as an effective way to engage readers. Stories are a powerful way to connect with your reader.

In the paragraphs and pages that follow, you’ll support your claim or main purpose of the chapter through sub-ideas or topics. These supporting ideas and examples all are meant to help the reader understand the main message or big idea you are trying to convey. And then you’ll round it all out with a conclusion that ties it all together.

With a structure to follow as you craft your manuscript, you’ll avoid the pitfall of overthinking and instead find words flowing on the page.

Mistake #4: Not Asking for Help Soon Enough

I see it all too often: writers wait too long to ask for help. First-time authors often work in a silo, not realizing their entire book doesn’t need to be written all alone.

Take inspiration from Brené Brown, who shared her experience of writing her first book in an episode of Magic Lessons with Elizabeth Gilbert. For her first book, Brené didn’t isolate herself but instead gathered her team at a lake house. She taught the content of the book while incorporating their feedback and insights. This collaborative approach allowed her team to identify areas where her explanations fell short or where certain stories didn’t resonate, enabling her to refine her manuscript.¹

In short, we write better together.

You don’t have to write alone. Be sure to seek support and input early in the writing process. Talk through your ideas with a friend. Find beta readers. Build a team around you. By involving others you will not only find more enjoyment in the process, but you’ll be much more satisfied with the end result. 

From the Coach’s Desk

Do you find yourself making any one (or more) of these common mistakes nonfiction writers make when writing their first book? Are you feeling a little stuck? You don’t have to let those mistakes hold you back from writing your nonfiction book.

You simply need to make a plan to move forward and do the work. 

If a plan feels like a constraint to you, know that your manuscript will evolve as you move through revisions. You can adjust your plan as new information comes across your desk. You can insert new quotes or change the wording of a chapter’s claim to reflect what you learn along the way.

That client I mentioned? I sent her a webinar about book proposals that helped her understand the importance of that document and how the traditional publishing industry uses it in the decision-making process. 

She watched it, and we ended up working together on her book proposal. She developed a strong idea that proved to “have legs,” as they say, and she landed a contract with an agent and a publisher. 

It all started with a plan. You can avoid all of these mistakes with your own nonfiction book project if you have a plan too.

Resources:

• Book Proposal Coaching: blog posts, a free challenge, and my course options in one place
• Free Webinar (the one mentioned in the article): Craft Your Best Book Proposal
• Blog Post: What’s a Book Proposal (and why do I need one)?
• Comprehensive Book Proposal Program: Your Compelling Book Proposal (YCBP)

FREE ON-DEMAND WEBINAR

Craft Your Best Book Proposal

If you have a non-fiction book inside you, the first step is to write a book proposal. In this training, I’m revealing what it takes to create this essential document and why its necessary for your publishing journey.

The webinar covers…

 why you need a book proposal
what a book proposal does for your book
the three things a publisher is looking for
how to start developing your own proposal!

Sign up for FREE

Footnote:

1. Gilbert, Elizabeth. “Magic Lessons with Elizabeth Gilbert: Magic Lessons Se. 1, Ep. 12: Brene Brown on ‘Big Strong Magic.’” Libsyn.com, 2016, magiclessons.libsyn.com/podcast/magic-lessons-se-1-ep-12-brene-brown-on-big-strong-magic. (Start around 27:04 mark) Accessed 21 Nov. 2024.

Somewhere along the way, you stopped writing. 

Life got in the way. 

You lost your confidence. You ran out of time. You ran out of ideas. You hit a huge block you can’t get past.

Maybe you thought writing belonged to younger-you, when the stakes were lower and you took more risks.

For one reason or another, the words stopped flowing. You set aside your pen. You stopped calling yourself a writer. You scribble in a journal now and then, but nothing beyond that.

This happens.

One day, you’re an unstoppable force—a creativity marvel, spinning out stories like a professional word-weaver. The next, you’re staring at a blank page, feeling the weight of fear, doubt, and a lack of motivation.

You face external hurdles.

It doesn’t help that the world seems to conspire against you. Every interruption, every demand on your time, feels like you’re yanked away from your true calling. You wonder if that original spark is gone for good, snuffed out.

I’ve been there. When my dad needed loads of caregiving attention, my mind didn’t have space to think creative thoughts, and I had almost no time to sit down and write. I was sitting down for “care meetings,” driving him to urologist appointments, tracking down fax machines to send documents to insurance companies, and dealing with the emotional strain of his increasing dementia and its unpredictable fury.

Overwhelmed by the responsibilities and stress, I put all but essential tasks on pause during that era.

The few words I eked out felt forced. The spark was gone.

Guess what?

You’re in good company.

Every writer hits this wall at some point. Some swear they don’t, but I would bet my favorite pen that every writer faces moments—sometimes long stretches—when the words just don’t come.

If that’s happening to you, don’t see it as a sign that you’re not cut out for this, or that you’ve lost your gift. It proves you’re in good company—it’s a sign you’re human.

Indeed, you’re a real writer.

Because you’re a writer, let’s figure out how to get those words in motion again.

Write a few minutes a day.

Even during the intense caregiving days, I could squeeze in tiny pockets for my work—windows of opportunity between appointments or before bed. It wasn’t much, but it was something. You can write, too. Even a few minutes in a notebook or your phone’s Notes app is a start. Get going by getting something down.

Get Your 5 Minute Writer Freebie

Grab this fillable workbook for ideas to make the most out of every writing opportunity. You’ll get:

• Lists of tiny tasks you can tackle when five minutes open up (so you can make progress—for both fiction and nonfiction writers!)
• Ideas for where to contain your research, ideas, and drafts
• Real-life proof from your writing coach that your writing life can expand in tiny openings

Write anything.

You may have a deadline staring you down or a deep desire to write your memoir. But if your writing’s at a standstill, let yourself write anything—your thoughts, a memory, a description of your surroundings. You need to invite your mind back to the page, so don’t add pressure by forcing it to perform an Act of Great Writing. Write a card to a friend or a simple update on social media.

Write sloppy.

Let go of the need for your writing to be perfect. Produce something purposefully imperfect if you need to, even sloppy. It’s more important to reignite the habit than to stress out trying to write typo-free text without a single sentence fragment. Sneak past your internal Grammar Guard who threatens to bludgeon you with the Chicago Manual of Style. Heck, write sentence fragments on purpose. Slip one in to free you up. You’ll feel like a rebel, which might produce the energy you need to fuel your creative fire.

Remind yourself WHY.

Reconnect with why you started writing in the first place. What drew you to this craft? What did it give you that nothing else could? Tap into that original passion, and let it guide you back to the page.

Try “writing” with another tool.

If your circumstances don’t allow time or space for you to sit down at a keyboard and type, speak your ideas into a voice recording app. Have the audio file transcribed and voila! You’ve got a draft. It’s a way to get your ideas out, even within logistical limitations.

Be kind to yourself.

Stop beating yourself up. When we’re kind to ourselves, we acknowledge our humanity, and open ourselves up to return to embrace the writer we’ve been smacking down. Sarah Severson writing for ​Rewired Dynamics​ explains:

“Self-compassion encourages us to explore without the fear of failure. This freedom to experiment fosters creativity, leading to innovative problem-solving and increased productivity.”¹

In other words, with self-compassion and kindness instead of self-loathing and criticism, we’re far more likely to emerge creative and productive.

The Ebb & Flow of Your Writing Story

Write what you can and know that the creative spark—the energy that drives us to the page—ebbs and flows.

Sometimes we simply sit and do the work, less inspired but willing to try. Keep showing up; as words spill onto the page, even a few lines at a time, believe and trust that more inspired words will return in abundance.

When did you last feel this way—stuck, without words, creatively blocked?

What pulled you back?

I hope you’re overflowing with ideas, your pen unable to keep up. But if you’re stuck, pick up your pen. Write one sentence.

You’re still a writer, and your story isn’t over.

Join us in Your Platform Matters (YPM)

YPM is a warm and welcoming membership community committed to creative, meaningful ways we can grow our platform and reach readers—check us out!

TELL ME MORE!

Footnote:

1. Severson, Sarah. “Self-Compassion: The Key to Self-Improvement and Productivity» Rewired Dynamics LLC.” Rewired Dynamics LLC, 3 Sept. 2023, www.rewireddynamics.com/self-compassion-key-to-self-improvement-and-productivity/. Accessed 7 Sept. 2024.

Is Substack the best platform for writers? Is it right for you?

In this interview, publishing expert Jane Friedman explores Substack’s social media-like features, blogging-like functionality, podcast-host possibilities…and its implications for writers. From using Substack “Notes” to community cross-promotion, it’s an ecosystem worth understanding.

Substack is more than just newsletters—it’s a blog, social media, podcast host, and email marketing tool all-in-one platform. Perfect for beginners, but should we trust it with all of our content?

Learn the pros and cons of Substack on our latest episode of the “Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach” podcast after skimming the show notes and summary below.

But first…

Meet Jane Friedman:

Jane Friedman has 25 years of experience in book publishing, with expertise in business strategy for authors and publishers. She’s the co-founder and editor of The Hot Sheet, a paid newsletter about the book publishing industry with over 2,500 subscribers, and has previously worked for Writer’s Digest and the Virginia Quarterly Review. In 2023, Jane was awarded Publishing Commentator of the Year by Digital Book World.

Jane’s website, janefriedman.com, offers a wealth of resources for authors. She writes many of the articles herself and also features guest writers who are experts in various aspects of writing and publishing. You may have followed some of the many links I’ve shared in my own newsletter, as Jane’s content and curation of expert input consistently provides top-notch education and encouragement for writers across genres.

Jane’s most recent book is The Business of Being a Writer (sponsored post/affiliate link to Amazon) (University of Chicago Press), which received a starred review from Library Journal. And a new edition is to be released in Spring 2025.

Jane is everywhere. She’s been in The New York Times, The Atlantic, CNN, Wired, BBC, The Guardian, CBC, The Washington Post, Fox News, USA Today, and NPR.

And now she’s here on the “Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach” podcast, discussing Substack for writers.

Mentioned in the show (it’s a lot!):

• Read Jane’s thorough and thoughtful analysis of Substack from March 2024:  https://janefriedman.com/substack-is-both-great-and-terrible-for-authors/
• Sign up for Jane’s free newsletter, Electric Speed, or see if The Hot Sheet, her paid newsletter for publishing professionals, is right for you.
• Leigh Stein (switched from offering a free MailChimp newsletter to offering a paid Substack): the website signup page: https://www.leighstein.com/newsletter | direct link to “Attention Economy” substack: https://leighstein.substack.com/ 
• Ann mentions paying for George Saunders’ “Story Club” substack: https://georgesaunders.substack.com/ 
• And paying for Jeannette Ouellette’s “Writing in the Dark” substack: https://writinginthedark.substack.com/ 
• Article in The Verge about the Substack controversy about Nazis using the platform: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/8/24030756/substack-nazi-newsletter-content-moderation
• Alternatives to Substack include Beehiiv https://www.beehiiv.com/ and Ghost. https://ghost.org/ 
• All the Substack newsletters Jane subscribes to here: https://substack.com/@janefriedman/reads 
• Courtney Maum’s “Before and After the Book Deal” https://courtneymaum.substack.com/ 
• Elle Griffin’s “Elysian Press” (Jane warned that her decision to unsubscribe from all substacks and only use the app means she’s encouraging others to do the same and will lose all of her own subscribers): https://www.elysian.press/ 
• Dr. Jen Gunter’s “The Vajenda”:  https://vajenda.substack.com/ 
• Peter Schoppert’s “AI and Copyright” substack: https://aicopyright.substack.com/ 
• Benedict Evans’ tech analysis newsletter on his own solution (possibly MailChimp with Memberful, a WordPress plugin to manage the subscription version): https://www.ben-evans.com/newsletter 
• Helen Lewis’s The Bluestocking as patron model substack: https://helenlewis.substack.com/ 
• John Warner’s patronage model: https://substack.com/@biblioracle 
• The Tangle news source, by Isaac Saul, mentioned by Jane as an example of subscription model with free and paid that is not using Substack: https://www.readtangle.com/ 
• Peter Attia – no way would he be on Substack, having built an empire on his own website
• Ann’s Substack, “Story Hatchery”: https://annkroeker.substack.com

Jane Friedman Substack Interview Transcript:

Ann Kroeker [00:00:00]:
I’m Ann Kroeker, writing coach. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome. If you’re a regular, welcome back. Today, you’ve joined hundreds of established and emerging writers who are discovering ways to reach their writing goals and have fun by being more curious, creative, and productive. And this is the Ann Kroeker Writing Coach Podcast. Today, I have publishing expert Jane Friedman on the show. If you don’t know Jane yet, you should and you will. Let me tell you just a little bit about her.

Ann Kroeker [00:00:28]:
Jane has 25 years of experience in book publishing. She’s the co founder and editor of The Hot Sheet. It’s a paid newsletter about the book publishing industry with over 2,500 subscribers, myself included. She has previously worked for Writer’s Digest and Virginia Quarterly Review. In 2023, Jane was awarded publishing commentator of the year by Digital Book World. Her book, The Business of Being a Writer, received a starred review from Library Journal and is coming up with a new updated edition in 2025. And Jane is everywhere. She’s often a keynote speaker at writing conferences.

Ann Kroeker [00:01:03]:
She’s been in the Atlantic, BBC, NPR. I mean, you name it. She’s probably been featured there in some way. And now she’s featured right here on the Ann Kroeker Writing Coach podcast. So let’s welcome her. Well, welcome Jane Friedman. It’s good to have you on the show.

Jane Friedman [00:01:17]:
Thank you, Ann.

Ann Kroeker [00:01:18]:
So when I asked you to be on the show, you you right away said sure, which was really refreshing and fun. And then I asked you, what would you like to discuss that you haven’t been able to explore as much as you’d like on other events, podcasts, speaking engagements, whatever. And right away, you said, sub stack. And I am curious why that came to mind so quickly and then why that was top of mind.

Why Jane picked Substack to Discuss

Jane Friedman [00:01:40]:
Well, it’s something that writers ask me about on a almost daily basis. And it’s a really complicated issue. And so it’s hard to give a single answer without getting into really like a 30-minute discussion about that writer’s background, their goals, you know, it’s it’s and and I too feel torn personally as someone who’s really invested in newsletters as a format, both to deliver great writing and content and as a marketing tool. Like, even I don’t use Substack, after developing a really robust list. I don’t feel like I need to, but I’m still drawn to it, because it does have this marketing power and networking power associated with it.

I think the confusing thing for so many folks is that you can still be active on Substack, and I am, without sending your newsletter through it. So in any event, there are all of these different layers to it. And oh, and then just to throw another variable in there, I don’t think Substack is always operating in a way that I think is what? Well, let’s put it this way.

Jane Friedman [00:02:53]:
They’re funded by venture capital. They’re gonna have to turn a profit at some point. And so there’s I have, you know, I never quite trust companies that aren’t yet turning a profit, which may be unfair, but there it is.

Ann Kroeker [00:03:06]:
Well and that’s why we’re having this conversation so that we can inform people who tune in. We can’t personalize it. Like you said, we can’t have that 30-minute conversation with an individual, but hopefully, we’ll give them enough information. They can make some decisions for themselves. So I’m all in as well on this conversation. And in full disclosure, I have a substack. Now I have kept just sort of like you mentioned, and I think we need to actually sort of define and explain it next. But, I do have one because I wanted to understand it.

Ann Kroeker [00:03:33]:
Like you, I was attracted to the concept, like, what is this thing and how is it working? And, oh, that’s kind of neat. So I decided I needed enough difference between my coaching emails, which loosely could be categorized as marketing, but I don’t think of it that way. These are the coaching emails that go out on a more or less regular basis. The attempt is every other week. But then I I thought I need something different. So I called it story hatchery, but I did get my name, which is something I always recommend to people when something new comes along, grab your name. So I have ankroeker.substack.com.

Ann Kroeker [00:04:04]:
So I got my name, sat on it for a long time, then decided I’m gonna do something called Story Hatchery, and it’ll be more of my personal stories still with a writing angle, but that’s what I’m doing over there. So and what I mean by full disclosure is I’m there, and I kinda like it. Mhmm. And so I bet people who I have people who don’t have any idea what Substack is, so they must not even subscribe to Substack newsletters, or they don’t realize that they are. So how about we take a minute, and you do, your best to try to describe all the different moving parts of Substack and how what it is it?

Jane Describes What Substack Is (and it’s not as easy as you’d think)

Jane Friedman [00:04:35]:
What is it? So when it first launched, and this is, I don’t know, in the mid 2010s, I believe, maybe 2017 when it first started really people started noticing it as a platform. I feel like it was positioning itself primarily as this is a great way to do a paid newsletter. Now it’s important to understand that at the time, this was kind of a novel idea. I hate to say novel idea because I was running a paid newsletter before Substack was established. There are lots of paid newsletters that have been out there for many years, but you really had to be technically savvy. You had to know e-commerce. You had to be able to identify the right subscription management system. And that’s just above and beyond having a decent website usually as a base of operation.

Substack as Paid Newsletter

Jane Friedman [00:05:26]:
So it was no small thing to go into the paid newsletter environment, until Substack came along and really automated every part of the process in a way that was a writer with absolutely no technical skill could set one up in less than an hour. So it’s hard to overstate just how kind of revolutionizing that part of it was. And when I saw it, you know, after I already had established my paid newsletter, I mean, I did think, “Why weren’t you here when I began my journey? It would have been so much easier.”

But by that time once you do all the work and you get invested in your own systems you know it’s some people have switched over but I’ve been pretty stubborn and have not. So that’s where it started. But as time progressed, you know, it I think they I’m not gonna say they they’ve pivoted, but they’ve started adding in a lot of functionality that I would say is more geared towards the first time writer or a creator, if we want to use that word, who may or may not understand what it takes to actually have a successful paid subscription. And there’s a lot of people doing stuff on there that’s really strictly for free.

Jane Friedman [00:06:40]:
They may or may not have the intention to charge. So I would I dare say that there are far more like free newsletter sorts of efforts on Substack at this point than paid, but that there’s kind of like this carrot that’s always being dangled. Oh, you could earn money if only you followed this certain formula or you were able to do XYZ and Substack is of course encouraging that because that’s how they make money is if you charge, because you’re paying 0 to Substack, you, you pay them a percentage of whatever your readers pay.

As if that weren’t enough, you now have Substack—I’m gonna say this is a couple years ago launching like us or maybe it was like a year and a half. In any event—a social media network on top of it. Basically a Twitter clone as Twitter started to degrade for reasons we won’t go into. And people were looking for other options.

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Substack’s Social Media & Blog-Like Features

Jane Friedman [00:07:36]:
You know, I think Substack rightly saw an opportunity and they created the social media layer. And so people can use that even if they’re not sending a newsletter. You can have your Substack profile where it reveals what Substack you’re reading.

And I didn’t even mention you can comment on Substack. It’s really like a blogging technology in addition to a newsletter technology, because every issue you send ends up being put on your Substack profile or website, which can be read by the public. Even if they don’t subscribe, even if they don’t give you their email address, assuming you allow for that (you have the toggles, you can control it however you wish).

And then parallel to that social network being put in place, they also really amped up the recommendation factor—people recommending each other’s newsletters. And so what people quickly realized is boy, it’s really hard to get growth for an email newsletter in isolation from every other newsletter or creator out there, which is how it worked prior to Substack, you know? Your newsletter issues really aren’t discoverable via Google unless you’re doing something special. But that’s not the case on Substack.

Jane Friedman [00:08:51]:
So you have this really interesting dynamic where Substack is both giving you the technology, and they wanna say very much they’re a technology company. But they’re also clearly kind of a social media or marketing platform as well. And they do have ways to make writers more visible on their platform. And they are making decisions that would be comparable to the decisions that a social media company might make, like the algorithms and the feeds and, and all the rest of it. Okay. I should pause there and we can explore any other part of the system.

Ann Kroeker [00:09:29]:
Well, and I think you bring out all these different things where it makes it really it is hard to describe what it is because it has so many pieces to it, so many aspects to it. You mentioned how it’s almost like a website, but with the blogging functionality, with that commenting, and people are actually commenting, which they aren’t so much on traditional blog posts. You’ve got the notes, which is like Twitter. You’ve got, then the ability to send that out to subscribers into their inbox. So in that sense, it’s sort of like email marketing, and then you’ve got the you didn’t mention podcasting or audio. You know, that’s another thing they started doing, and and I have some people who are actually starting their podcast, hosting it there, a public-facing podcast, and then they get the subscribers.

Substack Grows Email List (is it an Email Service Provider?)

Jane Friedman [00:10:11]:
You know,

Ann Kroeker [00:10:11]:
they get some of at least some of the emails. As you point out, there are some that will listen publicly and never come over, but some we’ll get some of them as subscribers. So it’s—it is a lot. It’s very alluring, but also very confusing because now I’ve got people…So I have writing clients who say, “Well, why do I need something like ConvertKit or mail MailerLite now, if I can send my email?”

Well, it depends on how you wanna market to people or send emails. Do you do you wanna be clear about who gets what? Then it may be a little tricky, and they say, why can’t I connect the 2? And then I’m like, well, because if they unsubscribe over here, you need to have a system for Right. Unsubscribing them over there. So it does get a little complicated with all those moving parts.

Ann Kroeker [00:10:45]:
That said, I have some people who they just wanted a quick get up and writing. And I thought, you know, you might wanna just check out Substack to do it for free, like you pointed out there, not necessarily to to pay. And it allowed them to get up and running right away because it because it is so simple, which is a complaint a lot of people have is that it’s not got very many, design options, for example. Right. But they did get up and running, and they’re writing. And they’re getting some readers. I have one person who started from scratch and has one of her posts, which is that the posting option you mentioned, one of those went viral, like, really viral. She used to have, like, 2 or no reactions, and then she had, like, over 2,000.

Ann Kroeker [00:11:23]:
And a lot of those people then became subscribers. And so she immediately was able to grow that readership. So, you know, it has some possibilities and potential there via hit the right spots at the right time. And you’re in that ecosystem of Substack. There can be some advantages, but, I know, you know, you’ve already revealed a little bit of some of the dangers and concerns you have. Yeah.

So I guess it might be interesting to talk about maybe some use cases you think are it’s particularly good for and then some things to watch out for. So maybe let’s look at pros and cons, you know, good things and bad things, things you like Yeah.

Ann Kroeker [00:11:57]:
Warning signs Yeah. That kind of thing.

The Pro’s for Substack for Writers

Jane Friedman [00:11:59]:
The ease of use and how I mean, for some people who feel like there are too many substacks, maybe they don’t like the ease of use and the fact that everyone now has the substack. But that really does help writers get over some initial hurdles.

And since I’m such a proponent of email as as a powerful way to communicate with readers, I like the idea that people can just get started easily without having to pay for, a more sophisticated service, at least in my estimation, If you’re doing marketing like a MailerLite or a MailerChimp or Mailchimp which can be intimidating to people and plus there’s often a cost associated with it unless you’re even the free plans I find they’re pretty undesirable because they don’t have functionality you probably really want if you’re serious about sending an email newsletter, rather than Substack, you get all the functionality no matter what.

So I do like it as a way as like, kind of like an easy, lightweight start for someone who’s beginning that journey, especially if if they don’t even have their own author website yet, even though I would encourage them to have one. Like, Substack can be a lightweight method to have that website because it allows you to add pages, but it doesn’t require you to know web design. Right? So and and, again, you’re not paying any money and it’s hard to beat the fact you’re not paying any money.

Case Study: Leigh Stein’s Move to Substack

Jane Friedman [00:13:25]:
And I have seen people who have had what I would call, like, sporadic newsletters or maybe they just had they’ve been for some reason, it’s a weak effort and they’ve never really settled into it. And they’re paying to have this, like, a Mailchimp, which is quite expensive. They’re paying to send it, but they just don’t feel like their their stuff is being shared or it’s reaching a new audience. So those people in particular, I will see them migrate everything over to Substack and then take off in a way that they had not before.

So an example of this might be, Leigh Stein. Like I already knew who Leigh Stein was and I subscribed to her email newsletter. I think she was on Mailchimp. And then within the past year or so, she went entirely all in as far as I understand on Substack.

Jane Friedman [00:14:11]:
And just recently, she started charging. So I think that’s like a real a pretty clear example of how it’s worked out to someone’s benefit. And I doubt she has I think she has no doubt or regrets about making that switch. And I think she’s even talked about it, how much her growth accelerated once she went over to Substack.

But one of the reasons for that is there is a very active writing and publishing community there. There are other people who have influential substacks on writing and publishing, that talk about Leigh, whatever Leigh is writing, and they’ll share her latest issue, etcetera, etcetera. And so there’s just this great amplifying effect that takes place. It also helps that she’s really in the community.

Substacks on all Topics

Jane Friedman [00:14:54]:
There are people like who already know her name. So Yeah. So that’s an example of it working out well. And I think even though I used a writing and publishing industry example, it the same applies regardless. You know, it could be mental health. It could be inspirational, devotional sorts of material. It could be politics or Bitcoin or AI. You’ll see these little communities that have grown and all of the people who do the influential Substacks, they all know each other and and and cross promote and comment.

Cautioning Substack for Writers

Jane Friedman [00:15:32]:
Now where I think it gets into trickier territory where it’s like, I don’t know if you would wanna put all your eggs in that Substack basket is if you have a fairly well established website, especially if you’ve got an active blog and you, let’s say, are trying to rank in Google search or organic search, you’re already ranking in Google search, and and you’re thinking about, well, maybe I’ll stop posting at my own website and instead post it on Substack, or I’ll try to do both.

Like, there are people who wanna, you know, have their cake and eat it too. And I think that’s, to me, usually the worst of both worlds because you’re splitting your traffic. You’re making you’re creating some confusion in my estimation about where you actually live and where you want people to go.

So I would say either you’re gonna build and invest in your foundation at your website, whatever that might be—usually it’s your author website. Or you’re gonna decide, “I’m gonna go the Substack path.”

Now there are some exceptions to this where maybe you have a very distinct project.

Jane Friedman [00:16:41]:
That maybe it’s clearly, you know, something that could stand alone and it’s okay maybe to silo it over in Substack and you can always cross reference the other stuff that you do at your main website. I don’t have a problem with that. But when people are, you know, double or double posting or doing an excerpt here, and I think that’s not ideal at all.

Ann Kroeker [00:17:02]:
So those who have shut down their websites and put every like you said, all the eggs in one basket, they moved over. They just shut down their website. I don’t know about podcasting, but I have I have friends who have done that. They’ve shut down everything, gone over to Substack. It’s all there. You would say, “Good luck with that”? Or what would you say to them?

Using Substack for its Marketing Power

Jane Friedman [00:17:20]:
Well, it depends on how strong that site was. Like, if it was always kind of a if it if you never got more than a 100 visits in a month, you’re probably gonna be very happy moving over to Substack. But for someone like me, you know, I get, you know, probably 6 figures a month in traffic and I’m, I’m not going to be doing anything that would harm that or devalue it or send some of its traffic over to Substack.

So instead, I use Substack for its marketing power. I use the Notes tool, which is the social media layer. I comment on other people’s substacks just as I would comment on other people’s blogs knowing that people will find me there.

Jane Friedman [00:18:04]:
And I do have, you know, kind of this I do have a Substack newsletter, but it is not something that I am active with. So, like, maybe every quarter I will post something and it’s of a more personal nature. It’s kind of it’s just discussing my career and like some of the qualms I have about my career. And it has nothing to do with what I normally post at my main website. And so if people discover that fine, they’re getting something that’s very real for me. That’s still kind of aligns with my brand. And if they’re really curious, they’re gonna end up at my website.

Ann Kroeker [00:18:36]:
Nice. Nice. I like that idea. That was exactly what I thought I needed something different enough that I didn’t feel like I had to cross well, the cross referencing is smart, but I didn’t have to keep putting the same content in more places. Right. Yeah. Okay. So you would say from an SEO perspective, meaning search engine results, that it would be unwise to paste the same content over in your Substack if it’s living at your website.

The Danger of Splitting Your SEO Traffic & Confusing Readers

Jane Friedman [00:19:00]:
I think it’s unwise. You know? I mean, you would have to see what would happen to kinda test the theory, but usually, Substack, I would has a lot of authority in Google’s eyes. A domain authority. And so when people go searching for you or the key topics you write about. If they’re supposed to land at something you’ve written because they’re searching for something whether that’s your name your book whatever. It becomes more likely that Substack or something you’ve put on Substack will come up first because it has so much authority rather than your own website. And that just hurts my business heart.

Ann Kroeker [00:19:39]:
Is that fairly new that they that they have succeeded at kind of breaking the SEO codes? It seems like in the beginning when it was siloed off, whatever you put up on your own Substack, it wasn’t turning up. So is that fairly new?

Jane Friedman [00:19:52]:
I mean, I can turn up Substack posts myself with depending on the search. So it’s just there are lots of variables here, but I would I definitely think it’s something just as to satisfy your own curiosity even if you’re not trying to drive traffic to your own author website. If you have a Substack, do a search for your name and titles or some other things and see what comes up.

So in any event, I think the more harm just comes in splitting your traffic. And I think it creates confusion for people. If they see the same stuff in both places, they don’t know quite exactly what what are you doing in both places. So it’s I may be making too much of of this, but I I see people waffle, you know, and they they seem to lack the conviction of what they’re doing. And so they end up in this no man’s land.

Could Substack’s Model Shift and Create a Different Experience?

Jane Friedman [00:20:43]:
And I would just say if you’re gonna use Substack for something, use it, but don’t devalue what you’re attempting to accomplish on your own website. And I think your own website shouldn’t be ignored in favor of feeding the Substack machine with everything at once, to become bigger and stronger.

Because, you know, I think what I’m worried about for folks is that in some years time, I don’t know if it’ll be suit very in the near future or the far future. But Substack’s profit motive, I think eventually wins out and they will have to make some changes that you might not like. So I don’t know what those changes will be. But it could involve charging for the service. It might mean inserting advertising. It might mean, not giving you the email addresses of your subscribers which are currently if you want to leave Substack you can take your subscribers with you based on email address and they will go.

Jane Friedman [00:21:42]:
But if people haven’t subscribed, of course, you can’t take them with you. And so if they change anything about that, then you’ve you have just lost a lot of time that you could have spent building on grounds you own outright. So I’m just always concerned about writers not being on, you know, I guess the rent the rented or the leased property where the terms can change.

Ann Kroeker [00:22:08]:
I agree. I encourage every writer to the extent they have the means to do so, to have a self-hosted website if they possibly can for that reason. You control it to some extent. I mean, I’ve had some technical glitches, but I’ve been able to resolve those, and it’s all under my under my roof, so to speak. But I do love what you said about using the functionality of Substack. So you you have a presence there. You’re using it by commenting and using the Notes feature. I think that’s a really smart use.

Ann Kroeker [00:22:37]:
I also you mentioned one thing that I thought I better tell anybody who has their Substack is maybe periodically on a regular basis, download those or upload the CSV, get the CSV files of all those email addresses in case that does happen, what you just said, where they say, you know what? We’re not gonna be able to let you have those anymore. That terrible.

Jane Friedman [00:22:56]:
Happen. I mean, it would be a PR nightmare for them. So I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon, but you just never know, like, these things get sold, they change hands, the new owners have different ideas. So it’s, I think, very hard to predict.

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Substack’s January 2024 Controversy

Ann Kroeker [00:23:11]:
Yeah. And speaking of PR nightmares, they did go through something more in January where there were was a little bit of a dust up, if not even a kerfuffle or something even worse. What how do you feel like we can talk about that? Yeah. And Yeah. Okay. So why don’t you describe what happened and what the fallout was and where they’re at now?

Jane Friedman [00:23:29]:
So I wanna say part of this was sparked maybe by a piece in The Atlantic or in a major media outlet. Someone was saying, hey hey, everyone. Did you know that there are neo Nazis who have Substacks and, you know, they’re they’re potentially earning money? Substack is profiting off of Neo Nazi newsletters. That was that was kind of like the headline message attached to that.

Now later on, many months down the line or maybe even more immediately, I don’t know, there were people who pushed back against that and said, okay, are they really earning money? Like, are these really successful Substacks? I’ve never seen these Substack. And then there were other people who were saying it’s unfair to call them Neo Nazis. Okay. But as soon as I think the the the bigger point was Substack likes to portray itself as a tech platform that does not make editorial decisions.

Jane Friedman [00:24:27]:
And more or less, everyone is welcome as long as you’re not doing something that’s blatantly illegal. They do have some policies against certain types of content. I don’t remember what the list is. And people were really pushing them to consider these specific, you know, Neo Nazi Substacks or whatever it was that was problematic about them, really pressuring Substack to put them under the policy that means they have to be kicked off.

Well, long story short, Substack, I think they may have purged a handful of accounts, but they didn’t like, they didn’t do what was publicly demanded of them. And there was an exodus of a number of sub stacks, some influential, some not influential. I think the biggest person I saw depart was Casey Newton of Platformer. So he left Substack and set up on, I believe, Ghost, which is truly a tech platform.

Each Person’s Ethical Dilemma & Choice

Jane Friedman [00:25:30]:
It would be comparable to like a WordPress. So just as a WordPress or a Ghost isn’t going to make editorial decisions about who uses their technology. Substack was trying to make the same argument, but really unsuccessfully I might add. Because they have all of these marketing tools and other and other factors where they stand to benefit and earn money by putting their finger on you know the scale of who gets seen and and if if if the paid newsletters get more seen and get more subscribers, then they they get a cut of that.

So eventually, the controversy died down. I’m not gonna say it’s gone, but I think everyone who was gonna leave has probably left. Substack didn’t really change their policy meaningfully as far as I can tell. And everyone else just kinda shrugged their shoulders and and carried on.

Jane Friedman [00:26:28]:
I don’t really I personally, like, I didn’t leave Substack. I’m still using it. I don’t have a problem with their policies as they are written. But I do think it’s just disingenuous for them to say we’re a tech company and such decision decisions do not concern us. I thought that was really, really poor position to take.

Ann Kroeker [00:26:52]:
So it leaves people with this ethical decision they have to decide for themselves, or they’re on Substack. Do I continue when what I’ve been told is that they’re potentially profiting from Right. The the both the people who have those websites or those Substacks, excuse me, they are profiting and, you know, in association with that, then Substack itself and those owners are profiting as well. So Right. Yes. And then when you land on it and you say, like, I’m okay with that, you stay or you look elsewhere to something that you feel like does uphold your your ethical stance.

Jane Friedman [00:27:27]:
Right.

Ann Kroeker [00:27:27]:
That’s hard to do because what you’re dealing with our companies, like, WordPress probably has really offensive people building their websites there. We don’t even know it. And so does that mean I’d stop my WordPress? This it’s a really tricky question. You could really Right. Go you know, if you go to the extreme, like, oh, do do we can we be anywhere? Can we be on any social media platform? Can we be…

Jane Friedman [00:27:47]:
Exactly. I would say that if you have that problem with Substack, if if you’re not gonna have a double standard, you need to ask yourself, am I gonna apply those same standards to x, to Instagram, to TikTok, to every service I use? And I think, you know, I may I know what my decision is. I’m going to use the tools that help me and unless sometimes there is a line that’s crossed and I can no longer be a part of that. I made that decision with that. So there was a point where I was like I’m out. I can’t do it anymore. So everyone’s decisions are gonna be, I think, quite personal. And so I never I do not judge.

Jane Friedman [00:28:23]:
We all have to decide where the line is drawn.

Ann Kroeker [00:28:25]:
I agree. I agree. And but I think it it actually the whole conversation that was happening around that. And in my community, I have a writing community as well that focuses focuses on platforms. So that’s why this is a big topic in our space. And we were all wrestling with it too, and I think it’s good to wrestle with it. Yeah. I think it’s good to ask those questions.

Ann Kroeker [00:28:42]:
It is. And rather than I tend to dive in and then the figure figure things out. I don’t have regrets of doing that, but I do enjoy exploring things. And maybe I need to grab my domain name long enough to make sure I get my name, and then and then do a little bit more deep dive before I get all in with anything. So it it’s it’s worth doing your research, I guess. Do your due diligence and then make your decision, and and and you can always change. You can always decide otherwise. Although moving every which way is gonna be time consuming every time you switch to from a major platform to another, especially if you’ve gone all in with Substack versus what you’re doing where you’re just in there using it like social media.

Ann Kroeker [00:29:21]:
Do you feel like that decision I I don’t wanna spend a huge amount of time here, but do you feel like that decision that they made and the pressure they were getting further confirms that maybe at the heart of Substack, they are a social media platform because they could monitor it, or do you feel like that’s true of any anything even subs even WordPress?

Substack Investing in People on the Platform

Jane Friedman [00:29:39]:
I think WordPress and Ghost are are different from Substack. I don’t feel like Substack is in their category even though they say that they are. Substack makes has made I don’t know if they’re actively making, but they’ve they’ve made investments in specific people who are on that platform. You know, they’ve had grants or they’ve provided services. I think they recently tried to bring some TikTok folks on to get them to use and I there might have been incentives there. So I mean, they’re definitely they’ve got their hand in the mix, the editorial mix. And if certainly they also have, like, editorial their own editorial newsletters where they’re highlighting very specific people on the platform. So they it’s and and they themselves come out with their, you know, with their own opinions and things.

Jane Friedman [00:30:33]:
So they’re very active in the community themselves, I think, for the most part. So if you go to Ghost or or WordPress, you just don’t see that. You know? That’s it’s just like you don’t see it with, like, your hosting company or, you know, they it usually, they’re not engaging with their users in that way.

Ann Kroeker [00:30:55]:
So yeah. Yeah. So that and that’s where I think it I I appreciate all the early attempt to describe and define it because is it at its heart like a website hosting company, or is it more, at its heart, an email service provider? Or or is it more, at its heart, a social media, system and so on? It’s like, it is really hard to land on what it’s most like. Do you feel like there’s one thing it’s more most like this?

Is Substack a “Platisher”?

Jane Friedman [00:31:20]:
You know, there was this horrible term that was coined maybe 10 years ago called a platisher.

Ann Kroeker [00:31:27]:
Oh, I’ve never heard that.

Jane Friedman [00:31:29]:
So it’s a mash up of the word platform and publisher. It’s kind of like that. So it’s, you know, it’s a tech platform, but it is also in some ways a publisher deciding where it’s going to put some more investment or who it’s trying to attract and supporting certain people. In some ways, it’s a little bit like Medium used to be where anyone could go and contribute to Medium. And I think that’s still the case. But they were they were investing in certain publications there and making payouts. And so obviously funding what they thought would help the whole environment succeed. So it’s it’s not like Substack is investing in just the technology under it.

Jane Friedman [00:32:12]:
They are investing in people. So I think that’s the difference.

Ann Kroeker [00:32:17]:
That is very different. Yes. So, do you do you have any subtext that you feel like are your favorites that you’d like to share? That’d be kind of fun.

Jane’s Favorite Substack Newsletters

Jane Friedman [00:32:26]:
Oh, there’s so many. Now I subscribe to a lot of, writing and publishing industry subtext because that’s my job. So in that area, you know, Courtney Maums’ “Before and After the Book Deal” is a great example of a paid substack that I think is worth the money to many, many writers. A there’s a health substack I subscribed to called “The Vajenda” by a book author, Dr. Jen Gunter, who is always trying to battle misinformation about women’s health in particular online. That’s a neverending job. I subscribe to a range of AI newsletters, some against and some for because I like to get the whole the the big picture of that. For those who are interested in the copyright implications, there’s a good one called “AI and Copyright” by Peter Schoppert.

Jane Friedman [00:33:17]:
He’s always quite, smart on those issues. Since I’m on the nonfiction journalistic side of the writing and publishing, like, in my personal interests, I subscribe to a newsletter by Helen Lewis. She is British, but she writes for The Atlantic. It’s called “The Bluestocking.” And it’s a really great example of a behind the scenes newsletter for anyone who’s actively writing and publishing elsewhere. I think here’s an example of how to use Substack to supplement what you’re doing in kind of your mainstream, whatever it is, whether it’s your own blog or pieces that you’re placing out in the world. You know, the funny thing is 2 of my favorite newsletters left Substack. One of them is Tangle.

Jane Friedman [00:34:05]:
This is a politics newsletter that looks at the 360 degree view of hot button issues. They started on Substack, but they moved over to Ghost. So you can find them at retangle.com. I actually did an interview with the founder, Isaac Saul, because I just think it’s super fascinating how they’ve managed to build a really robust newsletter, that gets a lot of donations. Most of the content is free. And so you can get most of what you want, I think, out of their reporting without paying a dime, yet they grow they’re they’ve been growing for years. And then another one would be Benedict Evans for his tech analysis. And he, he uses actually one of the email traditional emails, newsletter providers.

Jane Friedman [00:34:50]:
I think it might be Mailchimp. And he obviously has that hooked up to a subscription management service or a payment service. I think he uses one of the WordPress plugins that might be Memberful, for example. So for those who are trying to build their own solution, they usually choose a WordPress plugin or a subscription, facilitator like Memberful, and then they hook that up to their email newsletter service provider, in his case, Mailchimp.

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Ann Kroeker [00:35:18]:
That is so complicated. Like you said, when you set it all up yourself on the back end for The Hot Sheet, and then, you’re like, where were where were you when I needed you? So I’m stuck that like, that getting the plugins and all of that to play nice together sounds like a lot. But thank you for those recommendations. I was thinking of a couple of paid the the I pay very little, and I’d like to talk about that too. Just the cost. Like, the over like, if everybody charges even just $5 or $8 level, eventually, people max out on what they can afford for all the people they might wanna learn from. So Yes. We can talk about that in just a second. But given that, the 2 paid that I experimented with was George Saunders. He had one where he was teaching writing technique, and I wanted to see what he was doing.

Budgeting for Paid Newsletters

Ann Kroeker [00:35:59]:
And he built a whole little, like, class you could sign up for, and he would he would teach. He would look at mentor texts and then pick them apart and do some close readings and discussions, and people were very active in the comments. That was an interesting investment for about the the year that I was in there. And then writing in the dark, Jeanette Ouellette, she has a nice one too. I like hers, and she’s very instructive and models it well with grace and, very encouraging in the way that she goes about her Substack. So but they were paid, and they’re they’re I probably the only 2 paid ones I ever paid for because so many others were giving away enough for free that it was motivating to explore them. And I think you get into that a lot where in in the article you wrote an article in March I’ll link to that that was sort of like it’s something like it’s it’s terrible and wonderful or something like that as the title. I’ll link to it.

Ann Kroeker [00:36:48]:
But, you point out that, really, we can use whatever email service provider we want to use to to deliver free newsletters because most of us are not you are, but, like, I’m not famous famous enough or weighty enough to be somebody that probably people would wanna be paying enough for to make it worth it. I would rather have more subscribers to be able to pour into those people and tell them about something that’s coming up. And if I have more people on that list who can learn about the thing that’s coming up, then I might be able to let them know about a paid thing and make some money that way versus trying to make money from the product itself.

Jane Friedman [00:37:25]:
Right.

Ann Kroeker [00:37:26]:
And so that’s challenged because then those who want to try to do that, and they start charging means Mhmm. Very often, I’m just like, yeah. I don’t know you enough. I don’t think I’m gonna do that because eventually you hit your budget. Do you mind to talk about that a little bit?

Jane Friedman [00:37:41]:
Yeah. So I subscribe to more than a 100 substacks, and I only have pulled out money for 4 of them. So that is a very and I’m someone who loves newsletters, but there’s a limit. There is a limit. And I’m not alone in this. You have to be so motivated to get that content to pay. So The Vajenda, about women’s health, that’s one that I do pay for because I feel like this is a doctor who is actually keeping up with the latest research, in women’s health. And I don’t think I’m gonna get that really anywhere else, not even from my own doctor.

The Paradox of Making More from Free Newsletters

Jane Friedman [00:38:25]:
And I and she just has this sort of series information too that was behind a paywall that immediately when you subscribe you get that big hit of, okay, here’s all the information I really need to access before I even get, you know, the future newsletters. So there has to be that that’s why I think so many people fail at getting people to pay is that they don’t have that must have content. The sort of content, you know, that you would need if you were trying to get an advance from a book publisher, you know, that level of of benefit.

So something I often tell people rather than if like first of all like please go read what I wrote about the value of free newsletters in that post the terrible and wonderful post because I think people get so fixated on charging they forget how much money you stand to earn over a career just by having a free email newsletter list. I mean that is the easiest way to make money is by not charging for it. Paradoxically.

Ann Kroeker [00:39:32]:
Yes counterintuitive but so true.

Patronage Model Versus Subscriber Model

Jane Friedman [00:39:35]:
So once you start charging I would say most writers should really be looking at more of a patronage model rather than a subscriber model. And the difference is with the subscriber model you are telling people this is a transaction I am going to deliver x amount of value for x amount of dollars on a consistent basis. And we agree that if my value is not there you are going to leave. It’s the same, you know, transaction we conduct when we subscribe to a magazine, like a print magazine or, or Netflix or any sort of entertainment, or information that we want in our lives on a regular basis. Most writers are not going to be able to meet the transactional value, or it’s going to be a very tiny percentage of those you reach.

The patronage model is telling people, “Look, I think you might want to support my work. Can you support my work? Through this tip or through this donation, this one time, can you be a founding member and then you will get everything for free in perpetuity?” Some people do that, which I think is a great idea.

Jane Friedman [00:40:41]:
And so I think one of the problems is just the recurring nature of the subscription fee. It produces a lot of churn and you have to find a way to replace those people. And that you know that’s a business that’s been around for a 100 years. There are principles drive it. And I don’t know that writers really want to be distracted by learning what goes into running a successful subscription business.

Whereas I think patronage is a more accessible way to think about it. Come and support my work because it helps me do x y z. So it would be the same sort of messaging that you would use like in a Kickstarter or crowdfunding campaign or if you were running a Patreon.

Jane Friedman [00:41:19]:
So that’s something to consider. An example that I’ve sometimes used of this model is John Warner. He’s an author I worked with for many years. He now has a Substack newsletter that’s totally free. If you end up paying, you don’t really get anything more than what he gives everyone for free, except he’ll do a recommended reading list for you based on, like, stuff you like or don’t like. That’s it.

Jane’s “Decision Tree” to Decide if Substack is Right for You

Ann Kroeker [00:41:44]:
Nice. Thank you for that. And I’ll link to that. I’ll find him, and I’ll link to it because I think it’s nice to see examples of what you’re talking about. And in in in that vein, I don’t wanna put you on the spot, but can you come up with a decision tree of sorts? Like, if somebody is trying to make a decision, I would say personally, go get your name. Like I said earlier, I feel so passionate about that just because I didn’t get my name on Pinterest. And I’m kinda sore about it. That other Ann Kroeker out there.

Ann Kroeker [00:42:09]:
Nothing personal, but I really wish I could have that on Pinterest. Anyway, I just I just feel like if go ahead and get it, reserve it, and sit on it, and then decide if you wanna do anything with it later. Aside from that, how would anybody decide? Like, yes. It’s a good idea for me. I think you’ve touched on it, but I’m wondering if there’s a clear path for people.

Ask Yourself These Questions

Jane Friedman [00:42:27]:
Yes. I would say if the idea of if you don’t currently blog and or have an email newsletter, and the idea is just intrinsically exciting to you. Like you have some enthusiasm, and you’re not sitting here wondering, what would I write about? I don’t know. Like if you’re already like, you’re just kind of shrugging at what in the world you would do with Substack, I would say, why don’t you save it for some other time when you have a fire in you and you know exactly what you’re gonna write about. Because you need that fire to to sustain the effort through the amount of time it will take for anyone to discover that you’re doing it in the first place. So so that’s that’s kind of the first criteria.

So are you in intrinsically interest in this, and you’re not already doing it and you’re like, Substack inspires me and I’m reading some substacks that make me feel like I have something to contribute to the conversation or to the community. And then I would say if you’re already reading a lot of substacks, you’re just gonna add fuel to the fire of whatever you’re doing because you’re already gonna be having those conversations. You’re already gonna know the names and the players.

Jane Friedman [00:43:39]:
And so you’re gonna get up and running much more quickly as opposed to you have never entered that universe and you don’t know who to read first. And there’s going to be a lot of kind of fumbling around until you figure out who people are already paying attention to in your niche.

And then if you do need that light website, but you don’t want to, like, start your own WordPress or Squarespace or whatever, and you’re interested in pairing that with a little bit of light social media, let’s say you hate a lot of the existing social media options. There could be many reasons for that. You’re not particularly active anywhere. You could use Substack to kind of give you a light, in my opinion, friendly accessible way to have the start of your online presence. So it could be this minimalist site. Maybe you send a newsletter, maybe you don’t, but then you’re using notes to engage and be visible to to your community.

Jane Friedman [00:44:34]:
So those are all of the indicators that I think favor it. I think it becomes less favorable or you start saying maybe not if you’ve already really invested in certain assets that you’re trying to grow and associate with your name over time. So for example, in let me use a health example again. So another author I follow in the health world is Peter Attia. He’s a podcaster. He has a pretty significant website with all of his content. You’re not going to find him within 5,000 miles of sub stack.

Jane Friedman [00:45:04]:
He doesn’t need it. He’s driving everyone to be a member at his website. Going to Substack would be like probably degrading given the experience that he has created. So the more you move in that direction the more you’re in my position where I’ve had an established site now for 15 years. Substack is kind of like a toy you get to play with and you get to engage on social media and you have a little bit of fun. And I really do enjoy what I do there but it is not going to replace the serious business things.

Ann Kroeker [00:45:38]:
Those are good distinctions. I love that. And like you said, when you start with the person who doesn’t have so much of an online presence and you get your name, you reserve your name, then that playing around with it by subscribing to people, maybe some of the ones that you have recommended here. We could look at like you said, you could look at people you like and see what they’re subscribed to because of that recommendation feature. Right. Then you can start to just understand it, and I think that’s so helpful. And then decide, like, is this a good fit? Do I like the the way things are laid out here? Does it make sense, for people to navigate that and to navigate me and my world that I might build there too? And that’s a great way to start with that. Yeah.

Ann Kroeker [00:46:14]:
If you have your whole world, like, I do too. I’m like you. I have all this content over the years, right? That I I I love that idea. It’s my little play space. It’s like a playground for me.

Substack’s Weak on E-Commerce Options

Jane Friedman [00:46:24]:
I should also mention I don’t know how many how many listeners this would apply to but there are some people who are very e commerce oriented with their email. I’m not saying that all they do is sell but there’s a really big component to marketing and promoting X. It could be like let’s say you’re a self-published author who has new releases frequently. And so you need to tell your invested readers about them or you have classes to sell like I do or you have merchandise or there’s just a lot of offerings. Maybe you have a Shopify store or some other WooCommerce on your website. And so there’s always like something new coming around the bend that you have to market and promote. I think Substack is terrible for that. It is not for selling products merchandise.

Jane Friedman [00:47:10]:
Like if you want to sell a newsletter. Yes. But if you want to do something that I would consider more pure sales and promotion, you really need an email newsletter service like Mailchimp for that.

Ann Kroeker [00:47:21]:
I use ConvertKit. I do too. And, there are many others as well, but I I agree. I think that’s something you need to keep in mind if you’re gonna try to sell things. Because you get again, you get into that trick of, I have to bring these subscribers over here, perhaps, if they have but have they opted in for marketing?

Jane Friedman [00:47:38]:
Exactly. Exactly.

Ann Kroeker [00:47:40]:
Well, is there anything about Substack that we haven’t touched on that’s on your mind? Because this is you you said, I wanna talk about Substack. Maybe I didn’t ask the right questions. Is there anything lingering you wanna touch on?

Learn about the Substack App (and how it could frustrate the email list-building function)

Jane Friedman [00:47:51]:
I think the only aspect of Substack we didn’t discuss is the fact that it’s also an app. So there are people who only read content in the app and they don’t receive emails. In fact, this is so weird. There’s a really significant substack personality, Elle Griffin, who she loves it. She’s an evangelist for the platform. And as soon as the app came out, she was like, I’m unsubscribing to every Substack. I’m only going to read it in the app. And I thought, you do realize that by promoting this, you are essentially saying, if I leave Substack, I will have no more access to my subscribers.

Jane Friedman [00:48:27]:
Like this is to me, as a business person, I’m like, this is terrible. This is a terrible thing. So that’s just another, like I guess a cautionary note that I don’t know how much Substack is pushing the app. I don’t know what percentage of readers only read through the app without having the email come through. But to me that’s again that’s getting into the social media boat of someone else someone else’s algorithm is gonna determine whether or not they see my writing today.

Ann Kroeker [00:48:56]:
Right. Yes. I would not have thought of that except that I am using the app. My husband uses the app and and and subscribes to many things and uses the little reader. Even if they don’t record it, he likes it when it reads to him so he can go about his day. And I don’t know how much he even checks his inbox, but, yes, to to encourage people not to use their inbox is sort of negating that one huge advantage. Right. That’s a great point.

Ann Kroeker [00:49:20]:
Thanks for bringing that up. Well, this has been a great conversation, Jane, and I know people are gonna want if they don’t know you yet, which I can’t imagine anybody in the writing world who does not know you yet. So let me just say to you, if you’re watching, listening, tuning in for whatever reason, please go to janefriedman.com and just start diving into the archives and using that as an educational tool and learn about everything about the writing and publishing world because she is the expert. She’s the one everybody brings in as a keynote because she knows everything. You know, all the great and powerful Jane Friedman. But, is there anything you would like to send people to in in addition to Jane Friedman dot com so that they can get to know you better or take advantage of something that you’re offering?

Jane Friedman [00:49:59]:
Well, at JaneFriedman.com, like the good newsletter writer that I am, you’ll find mentions of both of my newsletters. The free one it’s called Electric Speed. It comes out every 2 weeks. And it’s just fun digital tools and recommendations for folks. Even if you don’t write I think it’s pretty fun. And then there’s another newsletter. That’s my paid newsletter. It’s called The Hot Sheet.

Jane Friedman [00:50:22]:
And it’s it’s really for professional authors or other publishing industry professionals who want to stay up to date on trends and news in book publishing. So it’s that’s a year’s subscription. I won’t allow anyone to do just a month. That’s that’s another maybe one day we can do how to manage a subscription business conversation. I think one of the the the Substack, you know, environment allows people to charge monthly or annual. And I think that is whew, that’s another mess.

Ann Kroeker [00:50:52]:
Yes. Yes. I agree with that too, but we’ll call, we’ll call it quits right now on discussing these things, because this has been an extreme, extremely useful discussion for people to make some educated decisions about what they wanna do. I subscribe to both of your newsletters. I do find them incredibly valuable. You do practice what you preach. You deliver value in each case. So thank you for all the ways you pour into writers all over the place, all the time, in just about every medium possible.

Ann Kroeker [00:51:18]:
Appreciate it.

Jane Friedman [00:51:18]:
Thank you, Ann.

Ann Kroeker [00:51:19]:
This episode is brought to you by YPM. Are you looking to reach more readers in a community of writers? Take a look at YPM, your platform matters. It’s my membership community where we discuss topics like this very thing, like whether or not or how to use Substack. I offer group coaching calls and platform specific trainings every month. It’s one of the most affordable ways to work with me. Check it out at annkroeker.com/ypm. That’s annkroeker.com/ypm. And I’m Ann Kroeker, cheering you on as a writing coach in your ear.

Ann Kroeker [00:51:50]:
Everywhere we may meet at my website, on the show, even in person. I’m always looking for ideas to share with you that will help you achieve your goals and have fun by being more curious, creative, and productive. Thank you for being here.

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“A writer — and, I believe, generally all persons — must think that whatever happens to him or her is a resource,” writer Jorge Luis Borges said in an interview, when asked about his blindness.

“All things have been given to us for a purpose,” he continued, “and an artist must feel this more intensely. All that happens to us, including our humiliations, our misfortunes, our embarrassments, all is given to us as raw material, as clay, so that we may shape our art.”¹

You may be familiar with Kate Bowler’s book Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lies I’ve Loved, and you might think it would push back against the wording of this sentiment.

Everything That Happens Can Shape Your Writing

But I take the quote’s overall message to mean we can work with whatever happens, good or bad. In fact, that’s kind of what Kate Bowler has done. Her misfortunes shaped her art.

This summer brought our family celebrations, gatherings, challenges, and losses. And they came so fast, I couldn’t find time to document them all. For now, they’re jumbled in my mind and heart.

Reflecting on Highs and Lows

The Borges quote encourages me to revisit the summer’s ups and downs when life starts to slow…to take my time as I capture the details (and emotions) of the chaos that whizzed past.

Will you join me?

As you reflect on the past few months—the moments you couldn’t control, the raw material of your life—consider how you can work with all that transpired.

Were there adventures? Celebrations? Humiliations? Misfortunes? Embarrassments?

From these “resources,” we, as writers, shape:

• stories that resonate
• ideas that stick
• opinions that stir discussions
• advice that steers decisions
• revelations that open others to new perspectives

We, as word artists, can transform all that happens to us into art.

Transform Experience into Creative Expression

As you reflect on the past few months—the moments you couldn’t control, the raw material of your life—consider how you can work with it.

Explore your journal notes, expand on fleeting thoughts, and, with your creative flair, discover the meaning and purpose within those experiences.

Whether they become part of a poem, essay, book, or blog post, see their purpose.

“Remember,” writes Anne Lamott in Bird by Bird. “that you own what happened to you.“²

Every event, episode, and experience contributes to your becoming who you are as a creative human.

Every hardship, misfortune, humiliation, joy, success, and celebration is a resource waiting to be shaped into art.

A Prompt to Capture Life’s “Raw Material”

Use this prompt to tap into the raw material of your life:

Something significant that happened to me is ______________________.

This is what happened: ________________________.
Use vivid language and specific details as you recall the facts. What did you see, hear, or notice?

Here’s how it shaped and changed me: _____________________.
How did this experience shift your perspective, behavior, or beliefs? What did you learn about yourself or the world?

This is how I connect it with how it made me feel, deep down: _________________.
What emotions did it stir? Did those feelings evolve over time?

Here’s how I can use the experience in my creative life: __________________________.
Could it inspire a story, poem, or essay? What universal themes does it touch on?

Your Creative Prerogative

The details may stay in your personal journal while the experience finds its way into your body of work in more subtle ways.

Your experience and insights may simply inform your work, your style, your ideas without being your work.

Or you may write it “slant,” relying on metaphor to hint at its impact.

It’s your creative prerogative to shape it as you wish.

Because the experience shapes you, but you shape it, as well.

Resources

• What Lies Beneath the Surface of Your Life?
• Ep 173: [Interview] Patrice Gopo on Meaning Making on the Page and Studying the Craft
• Writing Quote: writers write…to relive life (Donald Murray)
• Write to Discover – Start with Yourself

FREE Email Course

Why doesn’t your writing linger with readers?

Grab this free, four-lesson course: Metaphor Magic. Master this literary device and your words will stick with readers long after they step away from your pages.

Footnotes:

1. Borges, Jorge Luis, and Roberto Alifano. Twenty-Four Conversations with Borges: Including a Selection of Poems: Interviews, 1981-1983. Lascaux Publishers ; Distributed by Grove Press, 1984. (15) (quote first spotted in James Clear’s newsletter: “3-2-1: On Growth, All-Or-Nothing Mindsets, and How Great Art Evolves with Us.” James Clear, 17 Oct. 2022, jamesclear.com/3-2-1/june-3-2021?rh_ref=294c7014. Accessed 15 Aug. 2024.)
2. Lamott, Anne. Bird by Bird Some Instructions on Writing and Life. Anchor Books, 1995.‌ (6)

“The best advice I can give you to help you grow as a writer is to experience life.”

We came to hear about queries and proposals. We wanted to learn how this speaker organized submissions and kept track of contact information.

But at this breakout session at this writers’ conference, she insisted:

“I know you think your writing career is all about composing articles and books, but you have to be able to say something. Both fiction and nonfiction writers need material, so get out there and live life—take risks!”

The Power of Risks

To illustrate, she shared her own story about trying to waterski for the first time as an adult. Despite feeling intimidated, she took the plunge. The experience provided her with vivid sensations and emotions to write about, enriching her work with concrete details.

Her story prompted me to recall my own adventure. Earlier that same summer, I’d been invited to waterski, as well. Although I ended up with a spectacular wipeout, the memory of that risky experience stayed with me. I could see from my own life that she was right—I took the risk and lived to tell the tale, and it became material for my writing.

Embrace New Experiences

Creatives need to say yes to new experiences, even when they feel risky. Whether it’s traveling to a new locale, picking up a new hobby, or simply walking in the woods, these experiences fuel our creativity.

Julia Cameron encourages creatives to step out of their usual environments to gather fresh inspiration from museums, yarn shops, antique emporiums, and international grocery stores. These “Artist Dates,” as she calls them, are foundational to living a creative life.

Everyday Surprises

To boost creativity, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi suggests we “try to be surprised by something every day” (347, Creativity). This can be as simple as noticing an unusual car (for example, I spotted a Tesla Cybertruck today) or trying a new dish (pupusas are delicious). 

These small, everyday surprises add up, providing fresh material for our writing.

Combine Input with Your Unique Voice

Our writing deepens as we combine new experiences with our unique perspectives. The more we explore, the more we bring to our projects. 

Each risk, each new experience, and each surprise enriches our voice and adds depth to our work. We produce original material, surprising the reader as well as ourselves.

Let Life Inspire Your Writing

By embracing the world around us, we not only enhance our writing but also grow as individuals.

Step out, explore, take risks, and let life inspire your next great piece. Next time you sit down to write, your work will take on your fresh voice and new life—you’ll have new things to say and new ways to say them.

Resources

• Original version of waterski story
• Ep 211: Be More Creative to Enjoy Your Best Writing Life: Pillar Two
• Ep 210: Cultivate Curiosity for Your Best Writing Life, Pillar One
• Ep 180: Write to Discover – Start with Yourself

Want quick fixes to improve your writing style?

Sign up for the FREE course, Make Your Sentences Sing: 7 Sentence Openers to Add Music to Your Prose.

CLICK to sign up (free!)

When I was a child just beginning to speak, my parents drove late into the evening to the rural property they bought. As they drove up the gravel driveway, the sky spread out above us with stars glittering like a million diamonds spread out on a jeweler’s vast black velvet display.

Across the fields, a million lightning bugs hovered in the tall grass, their gleaming bodies flickering on and off.

I pointed at the sky. “’Tars!”

Then I pointed at the field. “Baby ’tars!”

Perhaps I was destined to become a poet from early on, but my confidence in landing on that perfect metaphor virtually disappeared over the years.

As a young adult, when I was writing books and blog posts, I rarely integrated metaphors into my writing, and it showed. My work was straightforward. Plainspoken. 

While there’s nothing wrong with clear writing—in fact, that’s the foundation of nonfiction according to Ayn Rand (clarity first, then jazziness, she says¹)—it lacked punch and pizzazz. My writing didn’t lift off the page and sink into the imagination or heart of the reader. It lacked that magical moment where an idea or image clicks and sticks with the reader. 

Mastering Metaphors to Produce Great Writing

And I knew mastering metaphors was essential to great writing. I did write poetry in college, admiring lines like Emily Dickinson’s:

“Hope” is the thing with feathers –

That perches in the soul –²

Shakespeare’s: 

All the world’s a stage,

And all the men and women merely players;³

And Wordsworth’s: “I wandered lonely as a cloud.”⁴

Robert Frost said, in an interview in The Atlantic, “If you remember only one thing I’ve said, remember that an idea is a feat of association, and the height of it is a good metaphor. If you have never made a good metaphor, then you don’t know what it’s all about.”⁵

Practicing Metaphor: Create Clunky Metaphors to Land on Magical Metaphors

I resolved to make a good metaphor. I practiced.

My early efforts were hardly as magical as the child connecting stars to lightning bugs. Instead, they were more like a child pointing to a horse and awkwardly pronouncing, “Dog!” 

My metaphor practice felt clunkily childish instead of enchantingly childlike, but I had to make clunky comparisons to train my brain to find the oddly ideal ones that would surprise readers. 

In a Paris Review interview, William Gass said:

I love metaphor the way some people love junk food. I think metaphorically, feel metaphorically, see metaphorically. And if anything in writing comes easily, comes unbidded, often unwanted, it is metaphor. Like follows as as night the day. Now most of these metaphors are bad and have to be thrown away. Who saves used Kleenex?⁶

The process of making metaphors and practicing at it will result in some stinkers. The bad ones, like used Kleenex, need not find their way into your work. Toss ’em. That’s what I’ve done.

Most of my comparisons fall flat, but I’ve found it’s worth experimenting with mediocre metaphors in hopes of landing on ideal metaphors because when we nail it—when we find the language that connects—the reader remembers, relates, reads on, and possibly repeats what we say.

I kept writing dumb metaphors until I found better, more creative, comparisons.

Poets, like Gass said, “think metaphorically, feel metaphorically, see metaphorically.” We don’t have to be poets to play with metaphor, but we can follow their lead, studying their technique, admiring the rhythm of how they see and put it into words, like they’re fly fishing, casting their line, the rod in motion, repeating the flow until the rod bends, line taut. 

Our first time casting, we may end up with our lines tangled in the weeds lining the stream, but we’re out there, learning the process, finding the flow. It’ll come, in time, with practice.

Collecting Magical Metaphors

A smarter idea than bumbling around on our own would be to collect samples of metaphors that stick. I should have started earlier, to learn from mentor texts, from authors who know how to wield their pen like a wand to create metaphor magic.

In the first chapter of The Writing Life, Annie Dillard tries on a stream of writing-related metaphors: “When you write,” she says, “you lay out a line of words. The line of words is…”

• a miner’s pick
• a woodcarver’s gouge
• a surgeon’s probe⁷
• a hammer⁸
• a fiber optic, flexible as wire…you probe with it, delicate as a worm⁹

Was she laying out her lines of words searching for the right comparison? Or is our line of words any one of those—or all of those—at any given moment?

She looked at the line of words from so many angles, creating so many ways to think about our writing.

Metaphor Is a Bridge

Defined, a metaphor is a figure of speech where a word or phrase is applied to an object or action that it doesn’t literally denote, suggesting a comparison. Ideally, the comparison conveys deeper meaning and creates vivid imagery.

Similes are similar, using “like” or “as” to make comparisons. Metaphors, however, assert that something is something else. For instance, “time is a thief” suggests that time steals moments from our lives, giving us a deeper understanding of its fleeting nature.

In this way, metaphors are a bridge, providing an instant connection between two disparate places offering deeper insight to the reader who crosses over from one to the other. 

When I was at the Spring 2024 Festival of Faith & Writing, Anthony Doerr, author of All the Light We Cannot See and Cloud Cuckoo Land, delivered the final keynote. In it, he spotlighted the power of metaphor to bring ideas, scenes, and images to life. He reinforced this bridge metaphor by pointing to its etymology.

“The etymology of ‘metaphor’ is ‘meta’ (across) and ‘pherein’ (bearing/conveying/carrying over)…A metaphor arrives and carries you across to the other side.”¹⁰

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Why doesn’t your writing linger with readers?

Grab this free, four-lesson course: Metaphor Magic. Master this literary device and your words will stick with readers long after they step away from your pages.

Metaphors Help Us See, Help Us Feel

Metaphors carry us from one way of seeing the world to a new way of seeing the world. They have the power to transform our perception of the ordinary, revealing hidden layers of meaning and emotion. 

To help us see metaphors building their bizarre bridges, Doerr drew first from Virginia Woolf’s short story “The New Dress.”

In “The New Dress,” Woolf delves into the psyche of her protagonist, Mabel, who’s been invited to tea:

We are all like flies trying to crawl over the edge of the saucer, Mabel thought, and repeated the phrase as if she were crossing herself, as if she were trying to find some spell to annul this pain, to make this agony endurable.¹¹

Mabel repeated that phrase of this idea of flies crawling over this saucer, and Doerr did, too, repeating the key image, nearly incredulous that this specific, vivid, odd metaphor works: 

Ladies at a tea party are like flies? Flies trapped in a saucer, trying to crawl over the edge?

I can’t remember all the details Doerr covered in his wild, fast-paced message, but I managed to preserve this in my notes: “She’s trapped in the imagery. She’s wrapped round and round in the social and economic class.”¹²

This is the power of metaphors in literature—they can turn abstract emotions into concrete images, making the reader feel the character’s experience, enter it, and grasp it instantly as they cross the bridge from one idea to another: women at a tea party, like flies trying to crawl over the edge of a saucer.

Clichés Are Metaphors Gone Bad

Metaphors may be magic, but clichés are metaphors gone bad. Or, more simply, overused.

The first time someone said, “It’s a piece of cake!” to describe a difficult task that was easy to pull off, they likely charmed the listener to compare a task with a piece of cake. 

Once upon a time, a gracious friend must have referred to an old situation that was forgiven and forgotten, and said, reassuringly, “That’s water under the bridge.” That first time, the other person must have visualized the hurt floating away and felt relief.

But over time, as these expressions were repeated countless times—maybe over a hundred years in some cases—they’ve lost their impact and originality. Once-vibrant metaphors have become yawners, failing to pack a punch because they’re overused. 

That’s why editors are quick to flag clichés, pushing writers to find fresh comparisons that can surprise and engage readers. 

Steer clear of clichés, and practice building better bridges. Craft evocative and emotionally resonant metaphors instead of stale clichés that whiz past unnoticed.

Ready to Tap the Magic of Metaphor?

Think about a character in your current project or a personal story if you write nonfiction.

What’s the main struggle or emotion? 

Now, find an object, animal, or phenomenon that shares a deeper connection with that struggle or emotion. 

Link the two to form the metaphor.

How can you weave the metaphor into your narrative to enrich the reader’s understanding?

Here’s an example:

The main struggle or emotion: A writer struggling with writer’s block.

Object, animal, or phenomenon: A locked door.

The metaphor: Writer’s block is a locked door.

Metaphor woven into the narrative: “Writer’s block is like standing at a locked door with no key, jiggling the handle, unable to access the creativity on the other side. Worse, if we manage to pick the lock, open the door, and peer inside, we discover the inspiration we expected on the other side still isn’t there…only an empty room.”

Technically speaking, that sample is in simile format (I used “like”), so a short revision as a pure metaphor could be more like this: “Writer’s block is a locked door, keeping ideas and inspiration just out of reach no matter how much I jiggle the handle or pound on the wood.”

Or…

The main struggle or emotion: A writer struggling with writer’s block.

Object, animal, or phenomenon: A foggy window.

The metaphor: Writer’s block is a foggy window.

Metaphor woven into the narrative: “Writer’s block is like staring out a foggy window, ideas blurred and obscured, leaving the writer struggling to articulate them with clarity.”

With this sample, I also slipped into simile (I used “like” again). Here’s a true metaphor version: “Writer’s block is a foggy window, blurring and obscuring the scenes and stories I long to see, process, and express to the world.”

Make the Connections

Experiment with metaphors, even if your early attempts are no better than used Kleenex. Your brain will begin finding connections more often and more naturally in life and in other people’s writing.

Collect the ones that model the magic of metaphor, so you see how it’s done and done well. The way metaphor connects one idea or image to another connects your words to your readers, as well.

“Get to work,” Annie Dillard writes, “Your work is to keep cranking the flywheel that turns the gears that spin the belt in the engine of belief that keeps you and your desk in midair.”¹³

Metaphors. They’re magic.

Resources

• Sign up for Metaphor Magic, the 4-lesson email course that expands on this content
• Have You Ignored the First Absolute in Nonfiction Writing? (where I feature the Ayn Rand quote)
• Dry as a Creek Bed (post where I experiment with metaphor)
• Find your muse in nature with this inspiring poetry prompt (you’ll automatically create metaphors with this exercise)

FREE Email Course

Why doesn’t your writing linger with readers?

Grab this free, four-lesson course: Metaphor Magic. Master this literary device and your words will stick with readers long after they step away from your pages.

Footnotes:

1. Rand, Ayn. Art of Nonfiction. Penguin Group US, 2001. (2)
2. Dickinson, Emily. “‘Hope’ Is the Thing with Feathers by Emily… | Poetry Foundation.” Poetry Foundation, 2024, www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42889/hope-is-the-thing-with-feathers-314. Accessed 20 June 2024.
3. Shakespeare, William. “Speech: ‘All the World’s a Stage’ by William… | Poetry Foundation.” Poetry Foundation, 2024, www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56966/speech-all-the-worlds-a-stage. Accessed 20 June 2024.
4. Wordsworth, William. “I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud by William Wordsworth | Poetry Foundation.” Poetry Foundation, 2015, www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45521/i-wandered-lonely-as-a-cloud. Accessed 20 June 2024.
5. ‌Frost quote found in Nordquist, Richard. “The Power and Pleasure of Metaphor.” ThoughtCo, Apr. 5, 2023, thoughtco.com/power-and-pleasure-of-metaphor-1689249. (He included, parenthetically, Robert Frost, interview in The Atlantic, 1962); I tracked down the article via Scribd, “The Figure a Poem Makes.” Scribd, 2024, www.scribd.com/document/710138066/The-Figure-a-Poem-Makes. Accessed 19 June 2024.
6. Interviewed by Thomas LeClair. “The Art of Fiction No. 65.” The Paris Review, 17 Jan. 2023, www.theparisreview.org/interviews/3576/the-art-of-fiction-no-65-william-gass. Accessed 19 June 2024.
7. Dillard, Annie. The Writing Life. HarperPerennial, 1990. (3)
8. Dillard, Annie. The Writing Life. HarperPerennial, 1990. (4)
9. Dillard, Annie. The Writing Life. HarperPerennial, 1990. (7)
10. Personal notes taken at the Festival of Faith & Writing, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Anthony Doerr, plenary session, 13 April, 2024.
11. “A Haunted House and Other Short Stories.” Gutenberg.net.au, 2024, gutenberg.net.au/ebooks12/1203821h.html#ch-08. Accessed 18 June 2024.
12. Personal notes taken at the Festival of Faith & Writing, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Anthony Doerr, plenary session, 13 April, 2024.
13. Dillard, Annie. The Writing Life. HarperPerennial, 1990. (11)

As I loaded it, I realized that to stay fortified, I needed to carry snacks and lunch each day—maybe even dinner—and it wouldn’t all squeeze into the professional-looking slim gray bag. I needed a bigger backpack. I dug around in my closet and found an older, different, ridiculously large purple backpack that I use for long trips. 

It wasn’t professional-looking at all, but my lunches would fit just right, so I showed up at this much anticipated writing festival with a purple backpack after all, and podcast listeners attending the conference would stop me. 

They’d heard the episode about planning and packing for a writing event. They’d shout, “The purple backpack!” and I’d say, “You’re a listener!” and we’d have a great time talking about writing. 

So that’s my first of 15 tips, some of which are super practical, like this one…

Tip #1: Make sure your bag is big enough

Test your bag to ensure it’s big enough to hold all the things you plan to carry with you each day plus whatever swag you collect along the way…even if you’re not going to look as professional as you’d like.

And don’t worry if your bag is a bit odd. People really do recognize you in a crowd if you have a memorable bag, purple or otherwise.

Tip #2: Tuck your business cards behind your name tag

Someone shared this pro tip with me years ago: When you go up to the registration table, you’ll get a name tag attached to a lanyard. Pull out five or six business cards and tuck them behind your conference-designed name tag in the plastic holder clipped to the lanyard, facing out. 

1. When the tag inevitably spins around, people can always see your name—one side is your name on the conference-designed name tag; the other, if it flips around, will show the front of your own business card. 
2. Your cards will be convenient to slip out and hand to someone without fumbling around in a bag.
3. You can tuck other people’s business cards behind yours when you swap to avoid losing them; at the end of each day, pull out other people’s cards, add their names to your contacts app, and replenish your own cards for the next day.

Tip #3: Decide which sessions to attend

If you haven’t already, plan which sessions you want to attend and mark those in your conference binder.

I choose sessions featuring industry experts I want to learn from or people I admire. This could be authors or publishing house representatives like a marketing executive or an acquisitions editor.

Circle the sessions you think are ideal for you. 

But…

Tip #4: Stay open to adapting the plan

Making a plan but staying flexible can help you feel less rigid, more open to serendipity. Or as Laura Fabrycky suggested I share with you, “Stay open to interruptions and sheer surprises.”

One morning at a recent conference, I planned to attend poet Christian Wiman’s session. In fact, I’d made tentative plans to meet up with a friend. I needed to allow a five- to ten-minute walk from the main gathering area.

As I was making tea, I got to talking with authors Summer Joy Gross and Lori Melton. Summer’s book was about to be released and we had not seen each other in person for several years. Then Lori and I connected at a conference years ago and we were enjoying these moments to catch up.

We were deep into the conversation when I looked at my watch and realized there was no way I would make it to see Chris Wiman—or I’d have to slip in late. 

Summer asked, “Are you going to the Madeleine L’Engle session?” 

“What do you mean the Madeleine L’Engle session?”

“Her granddaughter’s speaking about an unpublished book. It’s in this building in the Board Room.” Well, that I could make on time.

I had read the conference schedule, but somehow it didn’t sink in who Charlotte Jones Voiklis was, so I followed Summer and Lori to the session, texted my friend that I’d lost track of time, and ended up loving every minute. I’m glad I stayed open to “sheer surprises.”

Thankfully, the friend who attended Chris’s session said it was just what she needed.

Another time I went to the wrong room and ended up in a session other than the one I intended. But it, too, provided me with just what I needed. 

We can make our plans, but it’s okay to alter those plans—especially if we choose an opportunity that presents itself that leads to rewarding interactions and unexpected outcomes. Even mishaps and miscalculations can yield surprising results—the “wrong” room may turn out to be the “right” room.

Tip #5: Say “Hi” to at least one person

Writers can be dreadfully shy. Challenge yourself to say hello to the person next to you in each session. That person may be as nervous as you are, but this is a big reason to attend these events—to meet people.

Who knows? Maybe they’ll become famous later. You might meet a writing friend or connect with someone who becomes an endorser of a book you’ll release in a couple of years. Be brave and say hello.

If you chat for a few minutes and it seems appropriate, hand that person a business card and invite them to stay in touch.

Tip #6: Ask “What one specific question will I ask?”

When you’re in a session, listen closely, take excellent notes. If you’re new to publishing, write down terminology that’s new to you so you can look it up later.

As you’re listening, think to yourself, If there’s a Q&A…

What one specific question will I ask?

This question should be based on what they just said, demonstrating you were listening intently—that you truly care about what they were saying—and you’d like them to elaborate on something, or clarify a point.

Make this question short, specific, and different enough that it’s not an obvious question that anyone might ask.

And make sure you really want to know the answer.

Write down your question.

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

Tip #7: Ask your one question

Option A: Ask in front of everyone

Usually at the end of a talk, the audience gets to ask questions. 

Depending on the size of the room, the organizer might pass around a microphone, or audience members walk up to a microphone on a stand and wait in line to ask their questions. If the room is small, audience members might just raise their hands and speak up so everyone in the room can hear them. 

Good thing you’ll follow through with Tip #6 and write down your question, because you might get nervous and worry that you’re going to fumble. 

Let’s say they call on people in the crowd.

Raise your hand. 

When they call on you, stand up (this makes it easier for people to hear and see you).

If the organizers set out a mic on a stand, go to it. Wait in line.

When it’s your turn, state your full name. “Hi, I’m Ann Kroeker.” What this does is it puts a name with your face. Later, they may remember Ann Kroeker, the person who asked that question…and carried a purple backpack.

Don’t add a preamble or spend a lot of time thanking them. After you introduce yourself, simply smile and ask the question.

Option B: Ask after the talk at the front of the room

In some instances, there’s no Q&A but you might have an opportunity to go down to the front and interact with the speaker after the talk.

If they seem open to chatting with people, head down there with your question in hand. If others are milling around, shaking hands, asking questions, watch for your chance—don’t be too scared or shy.

Introduce yourself.

Ask the question. 

Have your business card at the ready in case they ask (which is easy enough if it’s in your plastic name tag holder, right?). 

If no one else is waiting and the speaker doesn’t seem to be in a hurry, you could, maybe, continue chatting because sometimes your question leads the conversation in a certain direction and they have a story to tell you or advice to give. 

Now you’re more than a random audience member. Now you’re one literary person chatting with another.

This is one of the many things that is magic about in-person events.

Option C: Ask your question if you bump into them

There may be many reasons you didn’t get to ask your question during the session.

Maybe they didn’t offer a Q&A. Or they did but you didn’t get a chance to ask your question before everyone else did. Or maybe the speaker rushed off to their next appointment. You may still have a chance.

Faculty are brought into these events to offer input, to give their talks, to encourage writers, to answer questions. Sometimes they’re sitting at a lunch table and they’re supposed to be there to meet and interact with attendees. 

As an attendee, find an open chair at the table. Introduce yourself, chat with them, and ask your question. 

Find yourself standing next to them at the coffee station? Introduce yourself and ask your question then.

If this person is a literary agent or an acquisitions editor, you may be tempted to pitch. 

Oh, friend, resist! 

Unless they ask what brought you to the event or what you’re working on, okay, then, by all means, share your hook. If they’re interested and ask for more, follow their lead.

But don’t haunt or hound any faculty (actually, don’t haunt or hound anyone, to be clear). 

Most conferences warn people, “Don’t follow agents into the restroom and talk to them outside a closed stall door.” Everyone laughs, but they say that because it happens. It really does.

Be patient. At many writing events, you’ll find an occasion to chat in a more appropriate location.

Why the one specific question?

You might have multiple questions, and that’s great. If you have a lunch table chat, you might get to ask them all.

But some people are too nervous to ask even one question, and they might miss a chance to connect if they don’t write that out ahead of time. And limiting it to one keeps you from accidentally dominating that brief time of Q&A by asking too many questions.

Be yourself, be relaxed, be real. You’ll leave a good impression as a real human who obviously enjoyed what the speaker had to say. Why else would you ask such a specific, pertinent, and thoughtful question, right?

Asking it is a way to connect as humans who love literature, who love words, who love ideas and writing. It’s a way to compliment their work and thank them for being at the event without having to actually compliment or thank them. Simply asking the question does all of that.

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

Tip #8: If you can’t connect with the main person, connect with their friend

You see that famous author and you want to introduce yourself and ask a question, but as soon as their talk is over, they head out the back way. 

Notice if they’re traveling with anyone. Do they have an assistant, friend, or family member with them? If that person seems approachable, sidle up and say hello. Introduce yourself. Ask innocuous questions about their work—the assistant’s work—and maybe you’ll learn something about their role that interests you.

And maybe while you’re chatting with them, you can say you had a question you hoped to ask. Is there a time during the conference when that speaker will be taking questions?

This person will know.

Who knows? Maybe they’ll put you in contact with that famous author for a few minutes later in the day or later in the event. If not, it’s always good to meet the assistants and friends, because they’re often the ones who can open doors for you later.

Tip #9: Decide how late you’ll stay up

At the end of every day of the conference, you’re likely going to be exhausted from walking around all day, from taking all those notes, or from enjoying the social interaction if you’re an introvert. 

You may be excited by publishing potential or overwhelmed by all the flood of information. You may be discouraged, thinking you’re not ready. 

You may want to curl up in your hotel room to rest and rejuvenate for day two of the conference.

Then someone invites you to join them for dinner or to go out for drinks with a group of poets.

Decide in advance what you’re going to do—then try to gauge if you’ll stay open to those invitations or if you’ll kindly turn them down.

Tip #10: Plan ahead with your traveling companions

Attending writing events with a friend or friends adds layers of fun. You can swap ideas, go to different sessions, introduce each other to people you meet.

You’ll want to discuss how to handle energy levels. Some of your traveling companions may want to retire early; others might be ready to stay up late and party. Have the conversation sooner rather than later about who’s going to do what.

If you ride together, work out what to do if one of you gets an invitation and the others don’t. Will they need the same invitation—is that possible? Can they get to the hotel without you if you go out with other people? 

Discuss potential scenarios in advance to avoid frustration. Work with them on alternative transportation. If you’re the one depending on others, create contingency plans related to logistics.

Tip #11: Take selfies & group photos

Even if you don’t normally snap selfies, take some with speakers and other writers you meet. Get their contact information and permission to share on social media. 

If you swap business cards, take a quick peek. Is their photo on there? No? Scribble something on the card to remind yourself who they are and you can make the connection when you share it.

During or after the event, be sure to tag that person if you post it somewhere online. If you have a particularly nice photo you don’t share, that gives you a reason to email it to them.

Tip #12: Enjoy your pitch session

You’ve practiced your pitch for weeks. You had a friend help you design a memorable One Sheet. Now you’re at the event and you can hardly concentrate because you’re so nervous, afraid it’s your one-and-only chance at a yes.

Relax

First, relax. That’ll help your pitch, and it’s not your one-and-only chance. You’ll be able to connect with agents in many different ways, even submitting through their online portal after you get home.

Wait for the appointment to pitch

If you happen to interact with the person you’re pitching beforehand, don’t pitch them then. Simply tell them, “I’m your two o’clock tomorrow!” That brief interaction gives you a more comfortable starting point when you do meet, because the initial introduction is out of the way. 

Don’t be late

Show up a little early at check-in (or whatever that event’s system is). 

Let them lead

When you’re able to join them at their table, walk up, smile. Let them kick things off. Chances are, they’ll ask you to tell them what you’re working on, and that’s your cue to share your hook.

Pitch and pause

When pitching, start with your hook and then pause for the agent or AE to ask questions. Be ready to summarize your book’s description and your platform, then avoid anything else overly memorized or practiced. Overall, you want this to be a normal conversation about the project and about yourself.

Save the One Sheet until the end (unless asked)

You want to connect with them as you chat, so hand them your One Sheet at the end, not the beginning. Unless they ask for it, of course. Think of it as something to leave behind rather than something to hand to them before you begin. Otherwise they’ll be tempted to look at it while you’re talking instead of interacting with you. They can look at the One Sheet later.

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

Tip #13: Make lists at the end of each day

It’s tempting to think you’ll retain everything you learn, but as one session follows another, the information starts to blur and get lost.

At the end of the day, take a few minutes to process the day and jot down key ideas you want to carry with you into the next day and post-conference.

For example, did you learn about “platform” from one of the speakers? Write down any action steps they recommended so you can follow through with them when you get home. 

I recommend converting notes into simple lists of action points and quotable quotes—excerpts from speakers you might want to share on social media (when you’ll tag them and use the event hashtag for wider reach).  

Also, keep a list of people you want to follow up with after the event. Do you want to email them or mail them a letter? Make a note about what you want to do when you get home.

Follow everybody on social media that you met that day, because that’s a fun way to stay in touch right away and say hello. You could DM them a little greeting if you have a few minutes, saying how delighted you were to meet them.

If you don’t have much time or energy at the end of a day: Identify the one thing you’re going to implement from each session.

Tip #14: Do this when you get home

It’s easy to attend these things, get hit with the fire hose of information, and then do nothing with it. I want you to make the most of your investment of time and money. 

Decompress

But first, when you arrive back home, toss some laundry in the machine and give yourself time to decompress. 

Work through your lists

Then follow through with those end-of-day lists. Work through them or make a plan to work through them.

Write letters

This is a good time to write letters, while your ideas and the recipients are fresh on your mind (and you have their addresses spread out when sorting business cards).

If you had a pitch session—no matter how you felt it went—send a note to the literary agent or AE, thanking them for their time and advice.

Did you make a new literary friend? Send them a note or email to say how glad you are to have made that connection. Don’t be afraid to propose an idea. For example, if you want to form a writing group with people you meet at the event, ask them if they’re interested.

In fact, write a note to each speaker you met who shared their contact information, every literary agent you pitched, every acquisitions editor you connected with. This is a great time to do so, because they’ll get it shortly after they get home, too.

Follow on Social

Follow and interact with people on social media.

At the last event I attended, I noticed many people put all their photos together into a vertical video and posted it as an Instagram Reel or TikTok after the event. A few people posted in Stories. 

If you took selfies with others (see Tip #11), send them a copy via email and/or share on social media.

Document in Your Journal

If you didn’t have time to journal during the writing event, document anything significant in a diary or journal, now that you’re home.

Tip #15: Update (and send) your proposal

Did someone request your proposal? Excellent!

Based on what you learned from speakers and in pitch sessions, you may want to tweak your book proposal, One Sheet, or query. Then send it off! 

They’ll have many proposals to go through, so give them plenty of time to review, but congratulations.

Reach out to agents you didn’t get to pitch

If you realized a literary agent at the event seemed like a great fit but you didn’t get a chance to pitch, go ahead and reach out and let them know you were impressed with their session and you were sorry you couldn’t meet. 

Let them know you plan to follow the steps outlined on their website to query or submit your proposal, and they might be more likely to notice it when it shows up in their system or inbox.

Update your website based on what you learned

You might also update your About page after getting ideas in one of the sessions you attend, so it looks good when people search your name or click through from your proposal. Maybe you’ll want to change the wording on your Home page or your newsletter signup form.

You learned a lot at the conference, but you won’t be able to take all the advice all at once. 

Create a punch list to work through

Create a punch list to work your way through over time. Improve, tweak, add, subtract.

Make your proposal and your online presence the strongest possible with your newfound knowledge and the advice you absorbed. 

The Joy of Spending Time with Writers

At the event where I ended up in the session led by Madeleine L’Engle’s granddaughter—a session I hadn’t even selected—I reconnected with old friends and met some new friends. 

After the closing keynote, I drove the five hours home with a contented smile on my face, thrilled to have connected with word-lovers from all walks of life.

That’s what I hope for you too—I hope you leave any event you get to attend with a contented smile on your face, happy to connect with word-lovers from all walks of life, ready for your next steps. 

It’s truly a joy to spend time with writers. Now load up that backpack and have fun!

Resources:

This post is one of three for writers heading to their next (or first) writing event (you can listen to them by clicking the player or subscribing to the “Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach” podcast, episodes 268, 269, and 270):

• Perfecting Your Pitch Masterclass (led by literary agent Cynthia Ruchti)
• How to Choose Your Next (or First!) Writers’ Conference
• Prep, Plan, and Pack to Get the Most out of Your Next (or First!) Writers’ Conference, and this one,
• 15 Tips to Make the Most of Your Next (or First!) Writers’ Conference…While at the Event
• Craft Your Book’s Big Idea (free 3-day challenge)
• Explore full book proposal development support with me: Your Compelling Book Proposal
• Occasionally I have the honor of being on faculty at writing events. The best way to find out where I’ll be is to subscribe to my coaching newsletter at annkroeker.com/connect.

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

Are you getting ready to attend a writers’ conference?

Guess what? So am I! And I want to make the most of my time there, so let’s think through what will help with that.

You’re likely going for at least two reasons: to learn and to connect. You might also be going to pitch your project. Let’s prep, plan, and pack to get the most out of this upcoming event, so you’re even better prepared to learn, connect, and pitch.

And given that I work with a lot of published authors and speakers, it’s possible you’re one of the presenters. One day I might share detailed speaker recommendations, but for now I did weave in a few suggestions to make your faculty conference experience a little easier, too.

Event Binder

First, I should mention the Event Binder. This idea originated with Kathi Lipp on an episode of Writing at the Red House. Years ago I heard her describe what she includes in her “dossier,” as she calls it, and I’ve adopted and adapted the list to make it my own.

I load it up with all travel information (printed out, obviously) like reservations, and confirmations; contact names and emails; an envelope for receipts; a mileage tracker where I can log each outing; a printout of the schedule; and more. If I’m speaking, I print out copies of my messages in case technology fails.

That said, I do create redundancy by dropping the same information into a folder on my phone in an app like Google Drive or Notion. And I’ll save the key locations in my maps app so it’s a quick click and I’m on my way.

If you’d like a list of what I have in my Event Binder whether I’m an attendee or speaker, head to ​annkroeker.com/conferenceprep​ to get a checklist.

Research Speakers

Hopefully you already read the session descriptions when choosing this conference and got a feel for the presenters and other faculty.

Study the conference website

Now, in the days before the event, study the website to learn about the organizers and faculty. You never know who you’ll be sitting next to at lunch or crossing in the hallway—knowing the team and speakers means you’ll be able to connect more personally during any random interaction.

Follow and watch or listen to speakers online

Find and follow key faculty on social media. Search YouTube and podcasts to find your favorite speakers. Listen to at least a few minutes of their interviews, presentations, or lectures. 

[Edited to add an excellent suggestion from writer Li Mitchell, who replied to my newsletter and suggested “joining presenters’ email newsletters (if they have them) and getting to know them through email before you attend their conference …because then when you met them in person, you would already have spoken through email.”]

When you do this, each speaker will lift off the pages of the conference materials and seem even more “real” when you hear them tell a personal story about family or childhood in a podcast interview. You’ll get to hear their voice. You’ll see mannerisms if you see them on video. If you have time before the event, you could read one of their books.

Write what you discover

If you create an Event Binder, write questions to ask and details you learn next to their name and session description. If you need more space for key bits of information, grab a sticky note so you have more room to write. If the speaker says something that stands out—like a hobby, a school, or a trip you relate to in some way—write that down, too.

These little notes are handy—if you brush up on what you’ve written before their session and meet them afterwards, you’ve got a conversation starter (“I heard you love Belgium—my husband’s from Belgium, and I love it, too!”).

The more I learn in advance, the more excited I get about the conference. I hope you do, too.

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

Find Friends who Plan to Attend

Most events like attendees to use an event-specific hashtag on social media. In fact, they might tag you or share your posts when you share.

If you feel comfortable sharing ahead of time, highlight the event by tagging the organization or organizer and use the hashtag—before you go to the conference. It’ll get your post in that feed and you might meet people online and connect with friends and colleagues in advance who search it and plan to attend, as well. 

It’s a way to get buzz going ahead of time and build anticipation.

Prep & Pack

The last and obvious thing you and I need to do before the conference is…pack.

When I take my time to ensure I’ve brought the items that will help me make the most of this event, it’s easier to relax and enjoy myself.

Grab the binder, of course, if you make one.

For me, it slides in the main compartment of my day bag that I’ll be carrying around all day. For me, it’s a backpack. You’ll want to choose your bag.

Choose Your Bag (Mine’s a Backpack)

If you’re physically able to carry a backpack and you don’t feel too…collegiate…toting it around on your back, I recommend it. 

Pack what you need for the day

A spacious backpack will hold a laptop (if you take one) and/or an iPad-type digital notebook, paper, pens, a small lunch (and floss, for after lunch), snacks, gum or mints, business cards, water bottle, umbrella, portable power bank to charge a drained phone, and other bits and baubles—whatever you like to carry with you from building to building, room to room. 

Obviously we’ll all have different items we like to have on hand. Those are ideas to get you started. And something like a backpack gives you lots of slots to stay organized.

Leave space for goodies

Be sure to leave space for goodies, because you’ll acquire things while you’re there, like you might buy a book from the event book table, or freebies from exhibitors and sponsors, like free pens, water bottles, coasters, and the like. 

Whatever bag you end up bringing, leave space for swag.

Is it unprofessional? Could be an advantage!

One year I carried a ridiculous purple backpack. I stuck out and felt self-conscious, even unprofessional, but it’s what I had and it held what I needed. 

A dear friend and I were chatting after a session where she was speaking, and she noted my purple backpack. We joked about it. “Well,” I said, “it makes me easy to spot!”

She was leaving a day early and wanted to say goodbye to me, but in the sea of attendees criss-crossing the campus, she assumed it would be impossible to connect with me again. She felt sad about it.

Then, she saw a flash of purple.

I heard my name. “Ann! Ann Kroeker!” I looked up and saw her waving with both arms, and I raced over to give her a huge hug. “I saw the purple!” she exclaimed.

That purple backpack accompanied me to a lot of writing events. After that, I got over any sense of feeling unprofessional. 

In recent years—and I don’t know why—I eventually bought a new backpack. And it’s gray. So all these years later I still carry a backpack, but you’ll never find me in a crowd.

Now I’m going on and on about this backpack, and I’ve dragged you into the weeds, but I’ll end by saying this: don’t go out and purchase a backpack—gray, purple, or otherwise—just because I’m talking so much about it. By all means, use what you have and enjoy. You know what works for you.

Too heavy for your health? Find a rolling bag

And as much as I love a good backpack, I know not everyone is physically able to carry one. In fact, I had lower back pain years ago that made it impossible, so for those outings I would borrow a rolling briefcase from my mom, which saved the strain. 

Books for Signings

If you purchase books by faculty, take those along and see if you can find a time for the authors to sign them. Don’t worry if you didn’t have time to purchase speakers’ books in advance, because you’ll probably be able to purchase them on-site to have them sign. 

And of course if you’re speaking, coordinate with the conference to have your books available for purchase and see if they’ve planned a signing.

Many conferences schedule author book signings for their speakers, and it’s always fun to enjoy that fleeting one-on-one moment with the writers you admire. And if you’re the speaker doing the signing, it’s wonderful to interact with people who are enjoying what you’ve written.

In a smaller setting with no official book signing, you might try to find an opportune moment. If you’re chatting with the author, they seem relaxed, and there’s not a line of other people waiting for their moment, ask (but give them an “out” to say no). I did this with the late Phyllis Tickle, and she gladly signed my copy of her memoir and the series of The Divine Hours I pulled out of my backpack.

I was glad I took them along.

How Will You Take Notes?

Consider how you like to take notes.

I love typing up conference notes on my laptop, but sometimes I want to travel leaner so I grab my ancient iPad. It works, but the battery drains away fast. So it’s not the best option these days.

Even fully charged batteries of new devices will eventually drain and WiFi can slow down when hundreds of people log in at an event, so I always take paper and pen, as well, in case the machines fail. In fact, I add extra lined sheets of paper in my Event Binder.

It’s nice to have options, and analog always comes through. Plus, it’s quieter than tapping a keyboard during someone’s talk.

Critique Appointments

Some events offer critiques, where a publishing professional—such as a professor, agent, or editor—reviews your writing submission prior to the conference and meets with you to discuss its strengths and offer suggestions to improve the project.

If you signed up for this, you will have already sent a digital copy to them prior to the event so they could review it.

Check your email, though, in case they ask you to bring one or more physical copies of the document to the conference.

And prepare to take notes during the meeting. Will you use a laptop (that might be in the way), an ancient (or new) iPad, or paper and pen? Record their suggestions quickly, as individual sessions aren’t a leisurely coaching call. You’re only going to have a few minutes with them. Make the most of it and listen to what they say.

Prepare yourself emotionally for their input, no matter how harsh it may feel. Practice smiling and saying, “Thank you so much for your time and input! I’ve learned so much from you.”

One Sheet & Proposal

If you signed up for a pitch session at your writers’ conference, you may want to create and print off copies of a One Sheet that summarizes your project.

Even if your pitch goes well and the agent or AE (acquisitions editor) likes it, they probably won’t ask for a hard copy of your proposal that they’ll have to lug around all day. Most interested agents or AEs will ask you to email it to them after the event, so take them up on it and don’t worry about loading down your bag with a bunch of hard copies of your proposal. But you might want to pack one, for that one agent who loves the project and wants the hard copy to review on the flight home. 

Nearly every agent or AE will accept a One Sheet because it is, after all, only one sheet of paper. In fact, some agents request them. I encourage people to create and take a One Sheet.

What’s a One Sheet? I’ll record an episode about One Sheets sometime, but for now check out the link below with more information (see the Resources).

Practice Your Pitch

You’ll want to be yourself and sound natural when you head into a pitch session, but you also want to make the most of that brief time slot and avoid rambling.

To ensure you can talk about your book with clarity and confidence, practice your two-sentence hook and your slightly longer elevator pitch. When your pitch feels conversational, and yet tight and clear, you’ll leave time to discuss it further and connect with the publishing professional. Stop after your descriptions to let them ask questions. Enjoy the conversation.

A few years ago I hosted literary agent Cynthia Ruchti, who led a simple training to model how you can develop a pitch that makes an impression. She offered inspiration to novelists, especially, and included tips for authors of nonfiction (see below).

As with a critique session, prepare yourself emotionally for the agent or AE input and response, no matter how disappointing it may feel. They might request your proposal or a partial (of your novel), or they may say it’s not a good fit.

Either way, practice smiling and saying, “Thank you so much for your time and input! I’ve learned so much from you.”

Business Card or Digital Equivalent

An optional conference item that may seem a bit antiquated is the good old reliable business card.

A member of my platform membership program attended an event where she couldn’t even carry a bag, so she ordered something called the Dot, a digital alternative to a physical business card. It worked well given her limitations. https://dotcards.net/ 

This kind of technology is common at Silicon Valley events, but literary people tend to be a little old school. If you have physical business cards, take along a stack. They’re fun to swap. 

Are You Speaking?

If you’re a speaker at a writers’ conference, you’ll need to include extra items in your Event Binder, like a copy of your talk(s), all the places you’re expected to be with your own personal schedule, pitch sessions and names of people who signed up, speaker meal information, speaking contract, and other information.

I like to bring a flash drive with my slide deck in case my laptop doesn’t play nice with the event system. I also invested in various dongles and adapters to connect my computer to the screens in the room.

I even have a gadget to advance my slides, just in case the facility doesn’t have one. It keeps me from being tethered to my computer tapping the spacebar. It’s a little unnecessary and over-the-top, but my husband got one at a conference he attended years ago and gave it to me, since I speak and he doesn’t. 

You may also want to grab a clipboard and print out a sheet for people to sign up for your email list with a note granting permission for you to add them to your email service provider. You can go home, add them to your system, and send them notes, resources, and any handouts.

Conference Countdown, Then…Go!

Despite this long list of suggestions, I’ve survived crazy seasons of life where I just had to throw everything in bags and hope for the best. I didn’t research a single speaker and still had a great time at the conference. I learned tons, made new friends, and connected with industry experts.

Make lists, prepare as best you can, then pack your bags and count down to your travel day.

If you’re planning to pitch, I wish you the very best.

As for me, I’ve got my binder in my backpack, and I’m ready to learn and connect! 

Have you attended a conference and have ideas to share that will help people prep, plan, and pack? Drop those in the comments!

Resources

This is how to Prep, Plan, and Pack to Get the Most out of Your Next (or First!) Writers’ Conference, part two in a short series.

• Conference Prep for more information on Your Conference Event Binder and other ways I prep for writers’ conferences
• Choose Your Next (or First!) Writers’ Conference (part 1)
• Write to Publish Conference (use my faculty affiliate code AK2024 at checkout for $25 off)
• The Festival of Faith & Writing (April 11-13, 2024; I plan to attend this)
• Kathi Lipp’s Event Dossier episode
• Dot cards
• One Sheet info (also from Kathi Lipp)
• Perfecting Your Pitch with Cynthia Ruchti

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

Attending my first writers’ conference proved to be life-changing—or at least career-changing. In the years since, I’ve attended a wide range of writing events, and each one has in some way substantially contributed to my career.

Some deepened my knowledge, others expanded my professional network—most did both.

I can’t imagine where I’d be without them.

Could a writers’ conference be a life-changing/knowledge-deepening/network-expanding opportunity in your future, even this year? If yes, how do you determine the right conference for you?

This post is the first of a short series on how to get the most out of your next (or first!) writers’ conference, starting with how to choose your next (or first!) writers’ conference. 

The Gifts of a Writers’ Conference

In the early days of my writing career, I explored freelance writing. Thanks to a mentor, I learned how to pitch myself as a writer for companies looking to outsource things like company newsletters and I gained a few core clients.

That launched my professional writing business.

But as a creative writing major attracted to poetry and essay writing, I wanted to explore other types of writing and submit to magazines, for example, so I picked up everything I could from library books.

The books, while excellent, were not enough to answer all my questions or help focus my efforts. And the internet did not exist at that time. In time, I instinctively knew I needed to start connecting with writers and learn from them. 

In fact, I started to crave it.

Somehow I heard about an event in Chicago called Write to Publish. I registered and attended it as my very first writers’ conference.

Nervous and unsure what to expect, I showed up and sat through sessions, as speaker after speaker delivered talks that energized my creativity, while the speakers themselves embodied a life I wanted to pursue: that of a working writer building a body of work to be proud of.

Many first-time conference attendees feel so overwhelmed by the flood of information at events like these, they conclude they could never pull it off and give up, walking away from writing and publishing altogether.

I felt overwhelmed, yes, but mostly excited and empowered. It was exactly what I wanted; it was exactly what I needed.

By the end of the conference, I interacted with attendees who in time became colleagues. I met someone who became another writing mentor. Those conference connections formed the beginnings of my professional network.

If you attend a writing conference…

• You could meet your next coach or mentor.
• You could meet like-minded writers and form a writers’ group.
• You could meet industry leaders who offer to look over your project.
• You could meet someone who introduces you to key people you only dreamed of meeting one day.
• You could meet a writing buddy who becomes an accountability partner.

If you’re considering attending a conference or any kind of writing event for the first time, I hope you find it proves to be a pivotal step in your journey. You never know how a chance encounter in the hallway or a timid hello as you take your seat in the auditorium could be the start of a professional relationship or a literary friendship that changes your life.

Writer’s Conference or Writers’ Conference?

As we dive into what a writers’ conference is and how to choose the right one for you, we have to face two small but fascinating issues. One, believe it or not, is punctuation; the other is labels.

Let’s start with punctuation.

You surely think this is overkill, but humor me for a minute.

Sometimes you’ll see an event called a writers’ conference, other times a writer’s conference. Occasionally you might spot a writers conference with no apostrophe. And then a few call their events writing conferences, avoiding the need for an apostrophe altogether.

In most industries, no one would care one bit about this level of detail. These conferences, however, are events catering to…writers, agents, and editors. So of course we notice the apostrophe (or lack thereof). And of course we start wondering how that tiny fleck of ink affects the attendees’ (or attendee’s) experience. 

Without wasting more time on the grammatical implications, I bring it up for practical reasons. Because when asking your writerly friends what conferences they recommend, apostrophe placement may not matter much, but in an online search each version could produce different results. 

 To turn up the perfect event for you, try using all the different search terms:

• Writers’ conference
• Writer’s conference
• Writers conference
• Writing conference

In your online searches, you also might change the word “conference” (singular) to “conferences” (plural). Conferences (plural) might turn up a list of events in a single article, which will save you time in your search.

If you search for the singular “conference,” your search results may deliver endless events to sift through one at a time…but it still might be an advantage, as you might find a new event that wasn’t around when a list of events was compiled into one article.

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

What a Writers’ Conference Tends to Offer

Most writers’ conferences feature speakers with sessions that educate authors about topics like industry expectations, genre-specific recommendations, author platform advice, tips for developing book proposals (especially for authors of nonfiction), queries, and other publishing advice. 

Conferences can also come in all different sizes, but most will offer keynotes, lectures, and breakout sessions. Some may include readings and workshops paced throughout a long weekend or some are a full week. 

Most writers’ conferences offer pitch sessions for writers who have completed non-fiction book proposals or for those who have complete manuscripts for their novels or memoirs.

Many conferences will have different tracks: one track might be for novelists, and the other might be for non-fiction authors. One might offer a track for unpublished authors and another for more advanced authors to discuss topics that new writers aren’t ready for. 

Knowing all of this can help you choose the best fit as you’re searching.

Is a conference a conference by any other name? 

The other question is this naming or labeling. Gatherings for writers might go by different names. In addition to writers’ conferences, I’ve seen and attended:

• writing retreats
• writing seminars
• writing festivals
• writing workshops
• and a writers’ colloquium

Each designation suggests a different purpose and personality. When you realize how one tends to differ from another, you’ll be able to match your professional needs and goals with the right event. 

For example, you might want to write and talk about craft at a retreat led by a writer you admire, maybe in a beautiful setting. This event would feel dramatically different from a two-day conference hosting hundreds of authors that offers 15-minute agent pitch sessions and is held on a college campus or at a hotel. 

Match Your Purpose and Project to the Type of Event

That’s why you’ll want to first be aware of what kind of writer you are and the writing you’re focusing on at this moment, then determine your purpose for attending a writing event.

This will include where you’re at in your professional and publishing journey. Then consider your current project and its stage of development. Today, I’m mostly covering the in-person conference experiences, but you may find similar benefits at something labeled something else.

Study the descriptions carefully, read the fine print regarding refunds and take into account that certain experiences may be much more expensive than others.

What Kind of Writer Are You?

Knowing yourself and your writing goals and writing stage can help you determine your purpose for attending an event. It can help you decide if you’re better suited to an event for:

• authors of nonfiction books
• authors of novels
• authors of literary writing (literary novels, short stories, essays, poetry)
• authors of genre-specific books
• bloggers
• freelance writers who are actively pitching and submitting (or want to learn how)
• writers interested in writing for the ABA and general market
• writers interested in Christian publishing
• writers interested in self-publishing

When you realize an event doesn’t offer speakers or sessions suitable for the kind of writer you are and the writing you’re pursuing, cross it off your list. It won’t be worth your time.

What About Your Project?

Next, consider what you need given where you’re at in your writing life and with a given project. 

Are you:

• a newbie with no project or book in the works, simply ready to soak in everything possible?
• an experienced writer who has taken a break and you want to dip back in and learn how the industry has evolved?
• an experienced writer with a project in a specific genre?
• an unagented novelist with a completed manuscript, ready to pitch?
• an unagented author with a nonfiction book idea, and you want to understand the industry?
• an unagented author with a completed nonfiction book proposal (or nearly complete), ready to pitch literary agents and/or acquisitions editors?
• a writer wanting to self-publish a book?

Given your current project’s status, you can decide which conference offerings will move it forward to its next milestone.

Even if you’re an unagented writer—that means a writer without a literary agent representing you—if you have a partially developed nonfiction book proposal, you may want to attend a writers’ conference to meet people and practice pitching. You might converse with an industry expert who offers ideas to strengthen your project!

What’s Your Purpose, Goal, and Need?

Once you narrow the options to an event that seems right for you, you’ll have access to useful information provided by industry experts, and you’ll meet other writers, literary agents, and acquisitions editors who are in the same space as you.

Here are common benefits:

Learn and be inspired: If you’re new to writing and publishing or if you’re new again to it after a break, search for events that will provide you with foundational advice from trusted professionals lined up as faculty. The combination of motivating keynotes and educational breakout sessions could be just what you need.

Network: You’ll be mingling with other writers at these events. Some may be at the same stage as you, and others will be further ahead. You’ll chat at the coffee station during breaks between sessions. You might sit next to each other or stand in line together to meet a speaker at the end of a presentation. These may become future colleagues who endorse your book when it comes out or introduce you to an industry gatekeeper—they might be an industry gatekeeper!

Find an agent: If you have a completed manuscript or book proposal but you haven’t yet landed an agent through querying, look for events designed for your genre with literary agents and acquisitions editors from agencies and publishing houses that interest you. Be sure they offer pitch sessions and sign up the minute that option is available. Even if you don’t land a spot with your ideal agent, as I mentioned, you might bump into them naturally and have a chance to interact.

For the Shy, Introverted Writer

Even if you’re an introverted or dreadfully shy writer, don’t let that keep you from attending a writing event.

I’ll be encouraging you in another episode to make an effort to meet new literary acquaintances. Building a network of like-minded literary people is priceless. For now, know this: You might not meet your kindred spirit, but it’s highly likely you’ll meet someone you can at least follow on social media.

And you might get to know someone who can help you take the next step in your creative journey—you might encourage them, as well.

The Writers’ Conference Investment

Conferences and other writing events aren’t cheap. In addition to the registration fee, you may need to ask for time off work, arrange for childcare, pay for travel, housing, and meals.

It adds up. And the writers who most benefit from conferences are rarely at a stage where they are compensated well for their writing, so it becomes a conundrum.

Small, Local Events: When my kids were young and our funds were limited, I looked for nearby one- or two-day events within driving distance. They often brought in two or three speakers and focused on a narrow aspect of the writing life. Those really helped me at that stage. Just because they’re small doesn’t mean they’re not offering valuable input.

Scholarships: Some events offer limited scholarships, so if you feel you qualify, reach out and ask the event organizers.

Grants: If you have enough time before the event, you could consider applying for a grant that aligns well with your writing project(s) and target reader.

Subsidized from Personal Budget: You might consider how other aspects of your life and work could subsidize this event. Be clear about what you hope to gain from attending—and how it fits into your long-term writing goals. That could be a way to view your investment in attending this event.

When I attended Write to Publish, I was building my freelance business. It probably took another year to start making substantial income, but in time I made enough to cover those initial costs. 

I wasn’t super savvy back then, but in retrospect I think I was viewing my writing as a small, startup business. The conference was an investment in my professional development, and I gained information and connections that contributed directly to my success.

Meet at Write to Publish?

In a remarkable turn of events, I’ll be on the faculty of the Write to Publish conference in Wheaton, Illinois (Chicago area), June 11–14, 2024. 

Yes, all these years later, I’ll be on site at the same event that changed the trajectory of my writing career. This time, I get to be there as a coach to support and serve Christian writers who want to be traditionally published. 

It’s humbling to come full circle, and I can’t wait to be there again.

If, after learning more about ​Write to Publish​, you feel it’s a good fit for you, use my affiliate code AK2024 at registration checkout to get $25 off. 

Make sure it’s a good fit—that’s part of the research. Again, Write to Publish is geared to Christian writers and traditional publishing. 

Do Your Research

I have attended so many different types and styles of writing events over the years. I have loved every single one of them, whether they were in person or online, whether they were a one-day or a week-long event, whether it was a retreat or a conference.

Determine your criteria right now. What you need today might be different a few years from now when you’ll pick a different event. Dive in to research the options that suit you best.

Study the faculty, the session titles and descriptions, and how the days are structured. Do they have agent pitch sessions or not? Do you need that?

If you’re writing novels for the general market or you’re writing genre fiction, skip the Christian conferences clearly designed for authors of nonfiction. Avoid those that are focused on essayists submitting to literary journals, unless that’s what you want!

There’s no one perfect event, and no one event is going to have everything you need for all time. As I mentioned, I’ve attended many different types and styles of events over the years, and each one has given me a little something different to walk away with and apply to my writing journey. 

Your Writer’s Conference

As you find one that feels like a good fit, don’t delay too long because some of them fill up. In fact, some might be full already—you can register or get the waitlist for your favorite. 

And look forward to connecting with people in the publishing industry who might be instrumental in getting you where you want to be as a writer in 2024 and beyond.

Resources

Once you choose your conference, keep an eye on the second article, about making the most of the conference itself (with tips for preparation and creative ideas to try while you’re there).

• Jane’s Guide to Getting the Most out of a Writers Conference (Jane Friedman)
• The Top Writers’ Conferences for 2024 by Book Publicist Scott Lorenz (Westwind Communications):
• AWP (Association of Writers and Writing Programs) Directory of Conferences & Centers
• Poets & Writers Conferences and Residencies Database (of particular interest to literary writers)
• Writers Conferences 2024: 60 Incredible Events to Consider This Year (The Write Life)
• It’s Fun to Write with Others! (episode 236)

Heading to a writing conference?

Sign up to get your copy of the conference binder—you’ll stay organized as you network and learn!

I stared at a blank screen. Why did I ever think I could pull this off?

Until that moment, I’d only written short projects. Articles, essays, poems. 

As I sat staring at the screen, questioning myself in about every way possible, I was supposed to be writing my first book—a manuscript of over 50,000 words.

Overwhelmed, I sat at the keyboard, frozen.

Sound familiar? Have you felt inspired to write a book you believe will truly help people—even transform them—but you’re not sure you have what it takes? 

Well, once upon a time, this writing coach was in the exact same place.

I was staring at the screen, inspired to write a book, but doubting myself: Do I have what it takes to write a book?

Could I Write Something as Big as a Book?

How does an essayist-poet-freelancer embark on the massive task of completing a 55,000-word manuscript?

That question felt unanswerable and I felt inadequate.

This prose-freezing self-doubt was a huge problem, however, because I’d signed a contract. I was obligated to write a book I didn’t think I could write.

First, a Proposal

For a year or so my friends had been urging me to move forward with writing a book after I kept sharing concepts with them in conversations over coffee or during play dates at the park. One after another, they would say, “You should write a book about that!”

I’d laugh it off. “Me? Write a book? Ha!” 

“But you’re a writer!” they’d insist.

“I’m a writer of short things. A book is too long, too huge.”

They’d shrug and we’d go back to wiping yogurt off our kids’ faces.

One day I was meeting with my mentor, a writer named Ruth (I had two writing mentors named Ruth—what are the odds!—and this was the Ruth who lived nearby). Nearby Ruth was the author of a book acquired by a publishing house based about three hours north of us. 

She offered to introduce me to the editorial team, so I could pitch the idea to them over lunch. She said she’d drive me up there herself! All I had to do was hop in the car, share the project with them, and hand out copies of a book proposal. 

It was all arranged.

What a great mentor, right?

I just needed to create the book proposal…which I didn’t have the faintest idea how to put together.

“You can look at mine”

“I need a book proposal? Can’t I just describe the book?”

“They need the book proposal,” Ruth said. “That’s how they do it.”

It’s the same now as it was then, by the way. For nonfiction projects, an author produces a book proposal before landing a book contract with an agent or editor. (Learn more about the process and purpose by watching this webinar.)

Back then, I had no idea what a book proposal looked like. This was pre-Internet, so there were no samples to download or coaches to hire.

“You can look at mine,” Ruth offered. “You can see how it’s laid out and how I described my book. Then you can plug in your book’s details in the same places.”

Can you believe that? My mentor offered to let me see her own book proposal like it was no big deal.

But it was pivotal. Life-changing. Career-forming.

Crafting my First Book Proposal 

Hers was the first book proposal I ever saw. I pored over it, following the flow to craft my own. Her subheadings showed me the purpose of each section. Her content gave me ideas for how to phrase the business-y stuff about mine.

Weeks of work went into that document.

I wrote the overview, typed up a bio, and listed famous people I could ask for an endorsement (I didn’t personally know famous people, but at that point in my life I knew people who knew people, so I added names with an explanation of each friend-of-a-friend connection).

Then I got to the meat of the proposal: 

The Table of Contents.

The chapter summaries.

This took time, because I was essentially writing the book without writing the book, and if you recall, I’d never written a book before so I had no idea what I was doing.

But I knew what I wanted to say, more or less. Like I said, for a year or so I’d been talking with friends about these ideas.

I did my best, summarizing what I thought I should include in each of those chapters, arranging the ideas in an order that made sense. I invented a marketing plan. I wrote an introduction and a sample chapter.

Then I got in Ruth’s car and rode north with her to my meeting with the editorial team.

FREE ON-DEMAND WEBINAR

Craft Your Best Book Proposal

If you have a non-fiction book inside you, the first step is to write a book proposal. In this training, I’m revealing what it takes to create this essential document and why its necessary for your publishing journey.

The webinar covers…

 why you need a book proposal
what a book proposal does for your book
the three things a publisher is looking for
how to start developing your own proposal!

Sign up for FREE

An Offer, a Challenge

After introductions, Ruth left me at the sushi restaurant where I met with the team.

I pitched. I showed them the book proposal. I dripped soy sauce on the table and soaked it up with a napkin, laughing it off. (It was not only my first time pitching a book, it was also my first time eating sushi.)

To my surprise—despite the soy sauce spillage—they were interested. After I got home there was a lot of back-and-forth, but in time they offered me a contract to write that book.

That’s how I found myself sitting at the computer with a signed contract and a deadline…and a wave of self-doubt.

And after spiffing up the first chapter, which I’d already written for the proposal, I found myself staring at that blank screen.

Breaking It Down

“Ruth! What have I gotten myself into!” I practically cried when I updated her. “How can I write an entire book? It’s too much, it’s too long!”

Ruth calmed me down. “Hold on, Ann. Yes, you can write this book.”

“I can’t write that many words!”

“You don’t write them all at once,” she said. “You’ve got your Table of Contents, right?”

“Yes. In the book proposal.”

“You’ve summarized what you plan to put in those chapters, right?”

“Yes.”

“Treat each of those chapters like one of your longer articles, and write them one at a time.”

How about that! I flipped through the document and realized she was right.

I’d already outlined the entire book. My ideas were right there in the book proposal I so diligently pieced together. 

“I’ll try.”

Ruth smiled. “You can do it. I know you can do it.”

You Already Know How to Write

I could breathe again. She demystified the whole thing and framed the writing of a book around the kind of writing I already knew I could pull off.

I followed her plan to write one chapter at a time—like a long article—and move on to the next, piecing them together to make the book. 

I tend to be a little more of a “pantser” than a “plotter,” but I sat at the keyboard grateful for the book proposal because it forced me to create structure for this project before I sat down to do the work.

All I needed to do was follow the plan: the road map I’d already developed to take the reader from page one to the end. 

Turns out I had everything I needed.

How Maggie Smith Plays to Her Strengths (You Can, Too)

We come to new projects with strengths from other parts of our writing lives—and from our lives as a whole.

Maggie Smith’s interview on the Write-Minded podcast emphasizes this reality: that even experienced writers approach each project as a new challenge.

Cobbling it together

She explains that her memoir, You Could Make This Place Beautiful, was “cobbled together.” She could see that having written poetry books didn’t really prepare her for writing a full-length memoir.

“How does one write 65,000 words,” she says, “because I honestly have no idea, as someone who writes poems that are typically less than 17 lines long and has never thought about word count. I had no idea how to sort of sustain.”¹

Not that I’m comparing myself to Maggie Smith, but like me, she knew how to write short but had no experience with how to write long.

Distilling experiences and presenting images

And she also didn’t see herself as a storyteller. “I’m not really a storyteller primarily in my poems, or at least I don’t think of myself that way. I think of myself more as an ‘image presenter’ or an ‘experience distiller’ or ‘crystallizer’ than a storyteller, so I thought, This is going to be interesting.”²

It seems she had the same “Do I have what it takes?” concern as you and I.

But unlike me, it sounds like she didn’t freeze or panic. Instead, she drew from her strengths—her gifts and experience as a published poet—to creatively piece together one of the most unusual and popular memoirs of 2023.

Writing vignettes

Her approach? She wrote vignettes one at a time independently from each other, out of chronological order and without an outline. The book “distills” and “crystallizes” her experiences and presents images, holding our attention. 

Assembling them

With help from an editor, she assembled the book by sorting these pieces to find themes, styles of writing, and various connections that flowed together.

Following her intuition

By color-coding them she arranged them on her living room floor until she found what seemed balanced. “It was a craft project,” she jokes, which is how she puts together her books of poetry, following her intuition, looking for “the natural progression.”³

Trusting herself

She trusted the writer she already was and the writing she’d already done to find a way into this writing that was new.

She played to her strengths and found her structure, her voice, her stories, and every word to make her book beautiful.

Every Book Is New

David McCullough has said, “Every book is a new journey. I never felt I was an expert on a subject as I embarked on a project.”⁴

Novelist Cassandra Clare says it’s true in fiction, too. “No matter how many books you’ve written, whenever you sit down to write a new book you always feel the same challenge — how do you shape this story into a book that people are going to love.”⁵

Jennifer Dukes Lee’s Atypical Book Project

I interviewed Jennifer Dukes Lee about writing her guided journal Stuff I’d Only Tell God. She’d already written multiple trade nonfiction books, but never anything like this guided journal. It’s a book of questions, not answers.

But Jennifer leaned into who she was as a journalist, a blogger, and an author. She’s both a natural and trained question-asker. She was born curious; she was a journalist by trade. She already had what it would take to write this book that was in a totally different genre than her others.

I have been writing online in a pretty open way since 2009….and…I was a newspaper reporter. But in the same way that I was interrogating police chiefs and mayors and governors, I began to interrogate my own life in that way. So I feel like turnabout’s fair play.⁶

By turning her own question-asking training on herself, she developed questions she knew could work for anyone ready to pen an interesting, deep, thoughtful journal that opened them up to the things that matter most.

And she wrote a book unlike any she’d written before, because she had what it takes to pull it off, even when she wasn’t sure about that when she started the project.

Tap into Yourself to Write This Book

Every book is new, so even if we’ve authored other books, we may find ourselves wondering, as Maggie Smith and Jennifer Dukes Lee did, if we have what it takes. Like Cassandra Clare, you may know how to write a book, but you don’t know how to write this book. 

Trust what you know and what you can research and learn. Draw from skills you developed the first time you wrote a book or from what you gained while writing other kinds of projects.

Tap into your personality, too, to find your way forward. 

• Are you organized and methodical? Capitalize on that with orderly research, outlines, and bullet points. Then write from what you’ve included in your detailed outline.
• Are you spontaneous and playful? Drop everything to write a chapter when you sense a burst of inspiration!
• Are you pensive, reflective, contemplative? Document your insights, and weave them in to offer vulnerability and insights uniquely yours.

With experience and personality, you have what it takes to write the book that’s on your heart.

Write Your Book Your Way (You Have What It Takes)

Your book is your book, your experience is yours alone, and your personality is one-of-a-kind. Put all that together, and you have what it takes—you can get ideas by seeing how others write, but in the end, you’ll find it within.

As my deadline loomed, I no longer panicked because, with Ruth’s reassuring reminder, I saw how to write that book with the truths I’d gleaned in the voice I’d developed. 

Drawing from my work writing feature stories for the local paper, I ended up weaving in the wisdom of others, too, interviewing moms to include their stories, ideas, and insights.

I figured out how to write that book—and a few weeks before it was due to the editor, I finished the draft, and enlisted beta readers to offer their input. I incorporated changes for the final draft and sent it off.

Turns out I had what it takes.

I’ll bet you have what it takes, too.

A Plan That Works for You

I’ll go out on a limb and make one suggestion that I believe will help. Regardless of your style of writing, genre, category, subject matter or experience, creating and following a plan will save time and build confidence—even if you’re a “pantser” (that is, even if you write by the seat of your pants).

If you’ve written a book proposal, you’ve got the plan.

In your proposal, you’ve developed the ideas you want in the book and organized them into a Table of Contents. This takes time—you can use different tools to unearth and organize the things you want to say and the information your reader needs. Learn more HERE.

Word by Word

Turn to the chapter summaries (sometimes called the annotated Table of Contents) and follow those to start writing the book, idea by idea, word by word.

When your ideas are in place, thoughtfully built out to support our claims, we write everything—no matter how long or involved—word by word.

Anne Lamott’s brother panicked because he needed to turn in a report on birds and hadn’t even started it. She says her brother sat at the table with books and pens unopened and untouched, because he was unable to take action.

I know how he felt, because I sat frozen at the keyboard, overwhelmed at the thought of writing an entire book. He had to write an entire report on birds in one night; he must have wondered if he had what it takes. 

“Then my father sat down beside him,” Anne writes, “put his arm around my brother’s shoulder, and said, ‘Bird by bird, buddy. Just take it bird by bird.’”⁷

If you feel like you don’t have what it takes, it’s okay. Every new project leaves a writer feeling like that, but we know what to do. We make a plan, tap into our unique strengths, and then take it word by word. Just take it word by word.

Resources:

• Craft Your Best Book Proposal on-demand webinar: Learn what goes into a quality book proposal so you’re prepared for the next step in your publishing journey: CLICK TO WATCH
• Go Ahead and Play to Your Strengths (episode 57): CLICK TO READ & LISTEN
• Don’t Be Afraid to Evolve (episode 47): CLICK TO READ & LISTEN
• Want to Become a Better Writer? Journal Before You Write (interview with Jennifer Dukes Lee): CLICK TO READ, LISTEN, or WATCH
• How to Structure Your Nonfiction Book: CLICK TO READ & LISTEN

FREE ON-DEMAND WEBINAR

Craft Your Best Book Proposal

If you have a non-fiction book inside you, the first step is to write a book proposal. In this training, I’m revealing what it takes to create this essential document and why its necessary for your publishing journey.

The webinar covers…

 why you need a book proposal
what a book proposal does for your book
the three things a publisher is looking for
how to start developing your own proposal!

Sign up for FREE

Footnotes

1. “Playing with Narration in Memoir, with Maggie Smith.” Write-Minded Podcast, 23 Oct. 2023, podcast.shewrites.com/playing-with-narration-in-memoir/. Accessed 5 Jan. 2024.
2. Ibid.
3. Ibid.
4. “David McCullough on Teaching Citizenship – Sagamore Institute.” Sagamore Institute –, 10 Aug. 2020, sagamoreinstitute.org/david-mccullough-on-teaching-citizenship/. Accessed 5 Jan. 2024.
5. Cicurel, Deborah. “Cassandra Clare Books – Mortal Instruments Books – City of Heavenly Fire.” Glamour UK, Glamour UK, 28 May 2014, www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/cassandra-clare-talks-to-glamour-about-city-of-heavenly-fire#:~:text=At%20least%20if%20I%20felt,people%20are%20going%20to%20love. Accessed 5 Jan. 2024.
6. Kroeker, Ann. “Want to Become a Better Writer? Journal before You Write – Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach.” Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach, 21 July 2023, annkroeker.com/2023/07/21/want-to-become-a-better-writer-journal-before-you-write/. Accessed 9 Jan. 2024.
7. Lamott, Anne. Bird by Bird Some Instructions on Writing and Life. Anchor Books, 1995.‌ (p. 19)

“Never go to bed until you have a story to tell,” says Kevin Lynch, Creative Director at Oatly. I heard him interviewed on a podcast and stopped jogging to write down what he said about that daily story:

It could be a deep thing that you learned, it could be a movie that you saw, it could be a way you took home, it could be a conversation that you had…it could be anything.”¹

Indeed, we can live a “storied life” without a celebrity-level lifestyle full of famous people and fabulous soirees. We’re living “story-worthy” moments each day—we simply need to notice them…and capture them.

Every day we have understated interactions and flashes of insight that create meaning. In fact, simpler, subtler, more relatable stories can captivate readers far better than wild escapades that don’t show any change.

These daily stories serve as fodder for our work, weaving into what we write as anecdotes, illustrations. Sometimes they serve as the narrative spine of a full-length project.

Thus, the more stories, the better—as Kevin Lynch observed in that interview, capturing a story each day gives us 365 stories every single year. 

To start your story collection today, try these three ways to ensure you have a story to tell by the time your head hits the pillow tonight:

1. Reflect to discern your “story-worthy” moment from the day
2. Create a story worth telling before closing your eyes for the night
3. Gather memories that come to mind and use those as story prompts

1. Reflect on the Day to Discern Your “Story-Worthy” Moment

In his TEDx Talk, on his podcast, in his book Storyworthy, and at his blog, storyteller Matthew Dicks invites every person, not just writers, to document their “most story-like moment from the day” for what he calls Homework for Life. 

He takes five minutes at the end of each day and thinks back: What made this day different from all the rest?²

The idea is so simple. He writes a sentence or two—sometimes just a string of words—and later, when he has time to write it out in full, he’s got what he needs to bring back that memory from that day: the moment he chose to document. 

With his Homework for Life, we note the small discoveries, the daily surprises, those meaningful moments we don’t want to lose. In other words, these daily stories don’t need to be earth-shattering events. They can be quiet, understated internal shifts.

He keeps his in a spreadsheet, making it easy to search keywords and find connections and themes from year to year.³

Begin this process, and you’ll be transformed by seeing how ephemeral interactions, observations, and moments are actually filled with meaning…that a day that seems like any other day is packed with specificity.

We are living stories every single day.

2. Create a story worth telling

The next way to avoid going to bed until you have a story to tell is to create a story.

That’s what Kevin Lynch suggests: “If someone asks, ‘How was your day?’ and you don’t have a story to tell them, go create one.”⁴

He continues, “By doing so, it pushes you out of your comfort zone and kind of gets you used to doing a little more experimentation and being vulnerable and putting yourself in vulnerable places or situations.”⁵

What story could you create before bed? Could you…

• read a surprising story?
• pull off a stunt?
• record a silly video with a family member?
• send an email to someone famous?

Or maybe the story you plan to tell before going to bed isn’t something that happened on that day—maybe it’s a memory, and that’s what you’ll create?

If so, this next approach will be worth incorporating into your daily storytelling habit.

3. Gather memories to use as story prompts

During the holidays, as an example, you may string some lights, stir up mugs of cocoa, and next thing you know you’re flooded with memories. Some might be magical childhood Christmas mornings; others might be hard years of loss. 

When you’re in the company of loved ones, and you’re chatting amidst familiar aromas and eating from heirloom dishes laden with classic family favorites, these memories resurface.

We can bat them away and live in the moment, or—because we’re writers and storytellers—we can share that memory as a story with those people who might enjoy the nostalgia. We can do that right on the spot.

Or we can jot down details and return to them later, crafting them into a story to slip into our projects.

How to capture those memories

You might recreate in vivid detail last year’s trip to a Christmas tree farm, or you may recall only  fuzzy mental snapshots of opening Christmas stockings when you were six years old. Either way, these are memories you want to grasp, to collect. 

These are packed with multisensory textures—colors, fabrics, foods, smells, sounds, and sights. For a moment pretend you’re a cinematographer filming your mind: 

• Imagine turning around 360 degrees within that memory.
• What and who do you see as you pan that space? 
• What’s in the center of the memory’s frame? 
• What else can you see—what colors, fabrics, foods, smells, sounds, and sights?

Record enough details and you’ll be able to flesh it out later, when you’ve got time to write. 

When the memories are hard

As I said, the memories may be positive and uplifting, but some may bring up a twinge of pain or the weight of grief. Those can be crafted into unforgettable stories. They can demonstrate growth, resilience, hope, and healing. 

Writing out the story flowing from a hard memory can be cathartic and healing. However, if a memory stirs up trauma of any kind, exercise caution and absolutely avoid revisiting a traumatic event that’s going to trigger a response.

Start Collecting Your Daily Stories

I hope you start collecting your stories in the way that makes the most sense on that day. 

When you commit to telling a story by the end of the day, your story collection expands and provides material for the rest of your life.

Again, as Kevin Lynch points out:

It gives you a raft of stories. You do that for a year and you probably have 300+ stories. As you’re kicking around concepts for an assignment or you’re in a presentation or you’re trying to connect with a potential client or what have you, you’ve got a lot of things to draw from.”⁵

As writers, we want a lot of stories to draw from. To build that “raft of stories” available for your creative work, wind down your day with at least one memorable moment.

You can tell the story about something that happens today, you can create a story and make it happen, or you can remember a story from your past.

Whatever approach you take, you can live a “storied life” starting now.

What’s your story?

Resources:

• Back to Basics: Generate Ideas to Find What You Have to Say
• Cultivate Curiosity for Your Best Writing Life, Pillar One
• Come to Your Senses as You Write
• Trauma-Informed Writing Transforms You and Your Words, with Michelle Stiffler

Footnotes:

1. Source: Interview with Kevin Lynch, Creative Director at Oatly, on The Beautiful Thinkers Project podcast with Caroline Hadlock (beginning at 21:17 mark)
2. Dicks, Matthew. “Homework for Life | Matthew Dicks | TEDxBerkshires.” YouTube, TEDx Talks, 8 Dec. 2015, www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7p329Z8MD0
3. Ibid.
4. Lynch Interview
5. Ibid.
6. Ibid.

When I was in college, practicing in public meant sitting under an oak tree on campus, flipping open my spiral-bound notebook, and scratching out a poem as students walked the path beside me. 

Creative writing classes gave me another way to practice in public, when my poems were workshopped by my peers.

As a young adult building a freelance writing career, I submitted my work to literary journals and magazines—that was about the only way I could practice in public. Those low-tech days limited how and where we could share our words. 

Today, the world has exploded with numerous ways to practice in public—I can share my work with you using tools I couldn’t have dreamed of when I sat under that oak tree on campus. Some of my content goes out through my coaching newsletter, my Substack newsletter called Story Hatchery, social media, and my website. 

Tools to Practice in Public

At the click of a button, from the palms of our hands, we can instantly share our work with the world using:

• websites
• newsletter apps like Substack, Beehiiv, and Ghost
• social media platforms like LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and Threads

Each time we hit “publish” or “post,” we’re practicing in public.

And each time we turn around and write another piece, we have more experience, more input, and more empowerment to become a better writer. 

Benefits for Writers Who Practice in Public

Jeff Goins and others urge us to “practice in public,” because “there is no better way to improve than to put your work out there, sharing it for the whole world to see.”¹

Of course there are good reasons to practice in private, but when we look up from the pages of our journal and share ideas with others through tools like newsletters and social media, we find readers. We build our platform. We experiment. 

Heavens, there are loads of benefits from practicing in public! Let’s dive in and see why it’s worth it to start…

1. Save Time and Write with Intent

If you write in private more than in public, you’re likely not achieving your goals. Marion Roach Smith argues that writing privately in response to a prompt wastes valuable time—time that could be dedicated to a work in progress. Writing with purpose and sharing it with the public, though, allows you to focus on creating meaningful content. Save time; write with intent, boldly practicing in public.

2. Write Better and Faster: Experiment, Adjust, Improve

When writers learn new literary techniques, it’s fun to experiment with them in a low-stakes setting like LinkedIn or Instagram.

Practicing in public allows for rapid improvement. Similar to that oft-referenced experiment where pottery students rapidly refined their skills by making numerous pots (instead of laboring over a single pot), writers hone their techniques through continual practice and sharing—the more the better! 

By sharing your work, you experiment and receive immediate feedback. This iterative process allows you to adjust and improve, refining your craft over time.

Because you’re sharing more often, you find ways to express your ideas more efficiently, making you a faster writer, too. Try time-savers like this:

• create platform-specific templates or outlines to copy and use each time you begin—you’ll save time and get started sooner
• use dictation to speak drafts into existence (there are so many options for how we can do this on our phones!)
• set a timer and freewrite as fast as possible to get a solid draft out
• connect with a friend and share your idea with that person in a recorded Zoom session or put your voice recorder on the table if you’re in person—the transcript can be your draft

3. Learn to Write Tight.

Strunk and White said it succinctly: “Omit needless words.”² Character and word limits of newsletters and social media force us to omit needless words and “write tight.” By keeping our content concise and clear, we practice a core writing skill regularly in short form, then carry it into our long-form projects.

• Writing tight at the idea level avoids idea sprawl. We practice conveying one specific idea or topic clearly without unnecessary elaboration. This carries over to long-form projects when we think of paragraphs or sections in a chapter: one main idea per unit.
• We write tight stylistically by focusing on the sentence level, shaving away what’s unnecessary. And learning to write tight cleans up purple prose so the idea moves along at just the right speed. 

4. Develop Consistency and Gain Confidence

Writing and sharing publicly gets you in a consistent flow. As you formalize your public practice and set up a personal publishing schedule, you learn to meet deadlines, develop workflows, and enhance your overall productivity. The professional mindset builds trust in your abilities, which encourages continual growth and the confidence to pursue challenging topics.

5. Find Your Voice 

Practicing in public allows writers to discover and refine their authentic voices. By experimenting with new words and different tones, styles, and perspectives, we craft a voice true to how we think and speak. This increases the chance we resonate with our intended audience.

If one post doesn’t sound quite like “you,” no worries! Post something else the next day. The opportunity to post often in these low-stakes spaces gives us freedom to find our voice.

6. Clarify and Validate Your Message

Planning to write a book? Get those ideas out now, in short form, a little at a time, before they’re a book—get them out of your head and out into the world! 

In his book Perennial Seller, Ryan Holiday says, “A book should be an article before it’s a book, and a dinner conversation before it’s an article. See how things go before going all in.”³

It’s okay if it isn’t perfect yet. Put words to what’s floating around inside you and see how it flies. Test ideas intended for a future book by writing them first as an Instagram post, article, Opinion piece, or newsletter.

Did people read it and react or interact? Good! That speeds up the “feedback loop,” as they say, and serves as a great way to get input—to see if we’re striking a cord, resonating with readers. Because you practiced in public, you have the information you need to write a longer version, full of illustrations and inspiration.

Isn’t it better to write short and small first instead of devoting months to a full-length book…only to publish to crickets? Isn’t it more fun to see readers react with enthusiasm to the shorter versions of book ideas? Practice in public and you’ll find motivation to go all-in!

7. Realize We Contain Multitudes⁴

By consistently creating and sharing content, we realize the abundance of topics we care about. We can follow our curiosity to explore new thoughts and make new discoveries, sharing them with readers. Notice and share trends, lessons, insights, and wisdom with your audience. There’s no end to what you can write about, because your wild, glorious, creative life is brimming with so much to share every single day! 

8. Build a Platform Organically (and Have Fun)

Practicing in public means we consistently share with readers our heart, passion, questions; we continually offer valuable answers and solutions. Doing so builds our personal brand and identity by associating ideas with our name—we get known for the tone and topic, post after post. 

And you’ll naturally connect with others who write on similar topics. You can interact with them in the comments. Who knows? Maybe you’ll collaborate with them. So many things become possible when you show up often, even daily, practicing in public. Before long, you’re reaching readers in ways you never imagined.

Writing (and Publishing) Regularly Can Transform Your Craft and Reach a Wider Audience

Try publishing your own short-form work, so you don’t have to wait for anyone. You’re your own boss. This means you write without waiting for a gatekeeper to give you the green light. With this freedom, you’ll tap into joy and feel playful. 

Readers sense this. Have fun practicing in public and you’ll be yourself, which means the right people will be drawn to you. You’ll see your words impact them in real time. 

You can certainly submit to other publications, increasing visibility and building credibility through bylines. Go for it! That’s another excellent way to practice in public. It just takes more time than when we publish ourselves.

The more we share on various platforms, the better chance we have to connect with a wider audience, engage with diverse thinkers, and build a loyal readership base over time—all because we choose to practice not just in our private journals but also through avenues that push our ideas into the world.

So don’t be shy! Give it a try, because your writing improves and expands when you practice in public. 

Resources:

• How to Be a Better Writer (Pt 3): Write Tight: https://annkroeker.com/2018/09/04/ep-168-how-to-be-a-better-writer-pt-3-write-tight/
• Are Creative Writing Prompts a Help or Hindrance? https://annkroeker.com/2023/10/12/are-creative-writing-prompts-a-help-or-hindrance/
• The Paralysis of Perfectionism: https://annkroeker.com/2017/11/14/ep-127-the-paralysis-of-perfectionism/ 

Join us in Your Platform Matters (YPM)

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Footnotes:

1. Goins, Jeff. Real Artists Don’t Starve: Timeless Strategies for Thriving in the New Creative Age. Thomas Nelson, 2018. (p. 129)
2. Strunk, William, and E. B. White. The Elements of Style: With Revisions, an Introduction, and a Chapter on Writing. Macmillan, 1979. (p. 23)
3. Holiday, Ryan. Perennial Seller: The Art of Making and Marketing Work That Lasts. Portfolio/Penguin, 2017. (p. 42)
4. Here I’m paraphrasing Walt Whitman, from Song of Myself, 51. Citation: American. “Song of Myself, 51.” Poets.org, 15 Feb. 2019, poets.org/poem/song-myself-51. Accessed 8 Nov. 2023.

Dear Writer,

It’s easy to freeze up when we’re writing for the faceless masses or the random reader who happens upon our words.

What do we say to all those people? How can we speak with heart to a total stranger?

Next thing you know, we second-guess our ideas, our prose, our very selves. We fade to beige without saying what we really think, without being specific, without our signature wit and whimsy. 

What would that random person who doesn’t even know me think if I crack a joke?

We lose our creativity, our passion, our joy.

We freeze. We get stuck. 

We’re afraid to stand out, so we play it safe. We write dull, ordinary prose that could be penned by anyone at all, even ChatGPT.

Unlock Your Creative Voice: Write a Letter to Your Reader

One way to unlock creativity is to write a letter—a letter to your reader.

And not just any nameless, faceless reader but a specific person you actually know.

Dear Anthony…

Dear Paula…

Dear Lissa…

When you think of the kind of person you’re trying to reach with your words, does Lissa fit?

Good. 

Now, write her a letter about a question or struggle that she herself has voiced. 

Weave in ideas that can help. 

Encourage her with a vulnerable story.

Add a little pizzazz that only you can include—after all, she knows you. She’ll grin at your joke and “get” your allusion.

When you’re done, you can send her the note, if you want.

Or you can cross out Lissa’s name and replace it with the type of person you write for:

Dear Weary Homeschool Mom…

Dear New Gardener…

Dear Journaler…

If that feels awkward to publish, cross off the salutation altogether. 

Dear Anthony…

Dear Paula…

Dear Lissa…

I’ll bet you can find a great hook in your opening lines, and the letter-writing trick disarmed you enough to write fresh and real and personable.

Writing a Letter to Your Reader Frees Your Natural Voice

From the writer’s perspective, writing a letter to your reader can remove that feeling of writing to the faceless masses and instead invite an easy tone and thoughts that convey empathy and intimacy.

J. Willis Westlake, author of an 1800s book about letter-writing, says:

In other [writing] productions there is the restraint induced by the feeling that a thousand eyes are peering over the writer’s shoulder and scrutinizing every word; while letters are written when the mind is as it were in dressing-gown and slippers — free, natural, active, perfectly at home, and with all the fountains of fancy, wit, and sentiment in full play.¹

By tricking your mind into donning its dressing-gown and slippers, you can achieve that “free, natural, active, perfectly at home” tone, style, and voice. Your readers will love reading your “fancy, wit, and sentiment in full play.”

Genuine Letters Contain Our Most Interesting Content

And it’s not just our style, tone, and voice that letters unleash; it’s also the content itself.

Westlake continues, “Though written, as all genuine letters are, for the private eye of one or two familiar friends, and without any thought of their publication, they nevertheless often form the most interesting and imperishable of an author’s productions.”²

In other words, these letters contain our “most interesting and imperishable” ideas. So why not write them as letters first?

Discover Epistolary Writing

This letter-writing format is labeled “epistolary” writing. And the epistolary approach is used more widely in published work than you might be thinking. For example, advice columns.

Advice Columns

Advice columns like the classic “Dear Abby” and more recent “Dear Sugar” dished out empathetic responses that addressed specific needs that were sent in from readers.

The writer connected directly with the recipient who asked the initial question and with every reader who “listened in.”

Epistolary Nonfiction Books

Then there are nonfiction epistolary books, which invite us to peruse a letter exchange, and as we do, we feel we’re listening in on an intimate conversation. 

Recognize these letter collections?

• 84, Charing Cross Road, by Helene Hanff
• Letters to a Young Poet, by Rainer Maria Rilke 
• The Letters of Vincent van Gogh

Epistolary Novels

You may have read epistolary novels that rely on this format to create “an intimate space between the characters and the readers,” as the Smithsonian Postal Museum writes. “[Because] letters are usually intended to be a closed communication, the readers are allowed to peer into the relationship created by the author.” ‌“Epistolary Novels as an Intimate Space.” Si.edu, 2023, postalmuseum.si.edu/research-articles/epistolary-fiction-themes/epistolary-novels-as-an-intimate-space. Accessed 23 Oct. 2023.

Here are a few novels in this format:

• Flowers for Algernon, by Daniel Keyes
• The Color Purple by Alice Walker
• The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, by Mary Ann Shaffer and Annie Barrows
• The Screwtape Letters, by C.S. Lewis
• Gilead, by Marilynne Robinson

Letters Between Writers

When I was a college student, I wrote to an author whose book gave me hope and instruction when I was struggling personally and creatively. I sent her a long, vulnerable, typewritten thank-you letter explaining how her book gave me inspiration, vision, and tools to pursue my creative life.

She wrote back!

In fact, her response was an exuberant typewritten letter even longer than mine. She included vulnerable details related to her own creative journey and urged me to move forward.

We continued to exchange letters over the years, and each one she sent answered questions and gave me advice for writing…and for living.

Letters Capture Our Most Creative, Interesting Ideas

We almost published these exchanges as a book in the epistolary format—maintaining the format of letters. 

Had we published them, the “interesting and imperishable” ideas from my mentor—in the intimate form of our correspondence—would have remained. Readers could have listened in, as it were, to our interactions. They would have received her insights for themselves even though she typed them out first just for me.

So the letter-writing structure can be an interesting experiment if your recipient is open to letting your notes (and possibly their responses) be shared with the wider public.

Write Your Reader a Letter Today

Picture your reader—that specific person who comes to mind. The reader whose specific problem you understand.

Open an email if you need to trick yourself even further and put that person’s name in the recipient line.

Relax. Write to her in a conversational tone. Say what you’re truly thinking. Express empathy, tell a story, offer a couple of ideas.

By shrugging off the sense that you’re writing to “everyone” and instead addressing just one person, you’ll feel free to be creative. Your writing style will produce more authentic and engaging content.

Tweak or delete the salutation, copy the text into a newsletter, social media post, Substack, or blog post, and then…

Click publish.

I’ll bet that genuine, heartfelt note will sparkle with your true voice and resonate deeply with your readers.

Sincerely yours,

Ann

Footnotes:

1. Popova, Maria. “How to Write Letters: A 19th-Century Guide to the Lost Art of Epistolary Etiquette.” The Marginalian, The Marginalian, 21 Dec. 2012, www.themarginalian.org/2012/12/21/how-to-write-letters-1876/. Accessed 25 Oct. 2023.
2. Ibid (emphasis mine).

Let’s look at the pros and cons of using writing prompts to decide if we’re fostering creativity or frittering away time.

I remember the pleasure of writing about ladybugs for my high school freshman English class based on the prompt written on the board.¹

And then there was the book I found a year or so at the library: Write to Discover Yourself. The author suggested we “portrait” the important people in our lives.² I wrote pages and pages about my dad based on that prompt.

Prompts continued to play a big role in my creative writing journey when college professors supplied our class with poetry prompts.

Those prompts did exactly what they were designed for: they sparked creativity, teased out long-buried memories, and helped me spin creative storylines I would never have imagined on my own. Prompts have so effectively opened me up, I decided to gather a collection for others to use called 52 Creative Writing Prompts, to help get pens moving and ideas flowing. 

Do Prompts Distract or Delight?

But am I doing a disservice? Are prompts mere distractions, diverting writers from purposeful, goal-oriented writing?

Some argue we need to stop using prompts and only write toward public-facing projects. Why waste time on writing prompts that fill notebooks and journal pages, when we’re struggling to find time for the writing we claim we want to do? Why write in response to a random prompt instead of composing the essay we want to submit, the book we want to draft, the article we want to pitch?

Let’s peek at arguments for both sides, the pros and cons of prompts, to see if we need to embrace or abandon them in our creative writing life. 

Pros of Creative Writing Prompts:

On the plus side we have benefits of creative writing prompts, such as how they:

1. Spark Fresh Ideas

Creative writing prompts inspire writers who struggle to generate any ideas at all by giving them an energizing starting point. Prompts also spark fresh ideas in writers who tend to return again and again to topics they’ve written about before. Prompts press writers to explore subject matter outside their comfort zone, breathing new life into their rotating collection of pet topics and pillar content. 

2. Overcome Writer’s Block

Prompts offer a lifeline to writers grappling with writer’s block—they invite a “stuck” writer to write freely for ten, 15, or 20 minutes without those words needing a destination or purpose other than to get the ink flowing.

3. Provide Low-Stakes Practice

Writing prompts intended as practice serve as low-stakes exercises, encouraging writers to play and experiment without the pressure of immediate evaluation by editors or readers. Prompts allow writers to refine their craft and explore techniques in the safety of their writing notebooks and journals. In time they may develop a more captivating style.

4. Prepare for Assignments

Freelancers who’ve been assigned a topic for a magazine or essayists who have entered themed writing contests benefit from writing from prompts. It’ll prepare them for assignments based on narrow parameters. 

5. Offer a Writing Warm-up

When writers tap out a few words in response to a prompt before diving into their long-form/high-stakes project, they can enjoy a brief warm-up that loosens them up.

6. Enhance Honesty and Depth

With prompts, writers delve into deeper personal experiences, memories, emotions, and themes without fear of judgment, leading to more honest and profound writing.

7. Lead to Personal Growth and Healing

When intentionally selecting prompts that invite reflection—maybe even under the direction of a therapist—writers can experience transformation through personal growth and healing. It’s no surprise that when we spend time in personal writing such as journaling, we grow and mature as people, which in turn makes us better writers.

Cons of Creative Writing Prompts:

To be fair, we need to look at the cons of creative writing prompts and how they might hinder our writing.

1. Waste Time

Critics argue that writing prompts can lead to aimless scribbling on topics unrelated to our writing goals and projects—time we could have dedicated to a work-in-progress. Instead, it’s being swallowed up by an unrelated prompt. Marion Roach Smith wonders why we can’t try warming up by writing toward the main project itself. Her big argument: when you write from prompts “you’re frittering away your time” instead of writing “with intent” and “for real.”³

2. Spit Out Stilted Prose

Savannah Cordova observes, “If you choose a prompt that’s too far out of your comfort zone (or one doesn’t really inspire you), it’s no surprise that the response will usually come out sounding forced.”⁴

3. Lack Purpose

Prompts are usually random—in fact, some websites offer random prompt generators. These offer no clear direction or purpose; they simply invite us to write a random scene. Lacking purpose, have we strayed from our goal of completing a project?

4. Allow Writers to Avoid Feedback

While some writing groups use prompts and offer input from the group, writing to prompts privately means we miss the opportunity of receiving input and feedback from real readers. In contrast, when we write for readers in public in a place like Substack, we can see our work resonate with others when they respond in the comments.

5. Encourage Procrastination

Are some writers using prompts to avoid their main project? Relying on prompts for this purpose could be a form of procrastination instead of hitting a word count goal on a more important and urgent project. “Admittedly, prompts can be valuable — as an exercise,” writes Jeff Goins. “But eventually, you don’t need another day at the gym. You need to sign up for the marathon and run. You need to go play a real game. You need to do something. Here’s what I find productive — far more than writing prompts (no offense to those who use them): Write something meaningful and share it.”⁵

Is it really either/or? 

It’s easy to see the appeal of creative writing prompts but important to consider the downsides and “dangers” of them, as well.

Words of caution from Marion Roach Smith and others remind me that while a solid prompt can open up the flow of words, it could also—if not used judiciously and with purpose—keep me from hitting my most important targets and deadlines.

But is it really either/or?

An integrated approach to prompts

I could propose a controversial conclusion banning prompts from serious writing work. Yeah, sure. I might get more hits on social media or responses in online searches.

But studying the pros and cons of using creative writing prompts has led me to a less controversial and more integrated conclusion. And maybe those who argue against them would agree to a thoughtfully integrated approach as well.

Here’s what I’m thinking…

Real Projects May Benefit from Prompts

Prompts could be used when we’re working toward the deadline and find ourselves stuck or blocked. Yes, a real project might benefit from a prompt.

We can set a timer and write for 20 minutes from a prompt to get our words flowing—any words flowing. When the timer beeps, we return to the official project with fresh eyes. The timer limits prompt-writing and minimizes distraction and procrastination while the prompt refreshes the mind. We’re still completing the “official” writing—in fact, the time spent responding to the prompt might brighten the tone of the finished piece.

Prompts Invite Creative Connections for Effective Slants

Prompts could be used to generate a narrow focus for a freelance pitch, landing on a creative slant or angle that gets a “yes” from an editor. In this case, prompts aren’t keeping us from our “real” work but are in fact used to inform and inspire our “real’ work. 

Prompts for Personal Reflection Make for Better Writers…and therefore Better Writing

And behind the scenes, free from public scrutiny, we could use prompts for inner work that shapes us into more insightful and compassionate writers.

It would be hard to measure a prompt’s influence on a future manuscript, but the writer will have more to draw from because they used prompts to privately sort out life, pain, problems, and confusion.

Creative Writing Prompts Have a Place in the Writing Life

That doesn’t seem like a time-waster to me. Those private writing sessions? They could stay in a journal or notebook or who knows? One day that unfiltered writing may liberate the writer to produce more vulnerable projects that transform readers. And maybe one day they actually pull from some of those private writing sessions. Some of the actual content may find its way into a powerful piece.

I agree that writers with limited writing time will want to choose prompts wisely, avoiding procrastination by funneling as much as possible into their work-in-progress.

But I do think prompts have a place in our writing life, our writing practice, and our writing process.

As for me, I’ll be using prompts…with purpose.

Q4U:

How about you? 

How have prompts served your creative work or distracted you from it?

Will you continue to use prompts? If so, how will you use them (and how often will you use them)?

52 Creative Writing Prompts:
A Year of Weekly Prompts and Exercises to Boost Your Creativity

Get your copy today!

Footnotes:

1. Kroeker, Ann. “Creating Worlds from Words: The Unremarkable Beginnings of a Writing Life.” Substack.com, Story Hatchery, 15 Apr. 2023, annkroeker.substack.com/p/creating-worlds-from-words-the-unremarkable. Accessed 12 Oct. 2023.
2. Kroeker, Ann. “Ep 180: Write to Discover – Start with Yourself – Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach.” Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach, 8 Jan. 2019, annkroeker.com/2019/01/08/ep-180-write-to-discover-start-with-yourself/. Accessed 12 Oct. 2023.
3. ‌Smith, Marion Roach. “Memoir Writing Resolutions. Number One: No More Writing Prompts – Memoir Coach and Author Marion Roach.” Memoir Coach and Author Marion Roach, 27 Dec. 2011, marionroach.com/2011/12/memoir-writing-resolutions-number-one-no-more-writing-exercises/. Accessed 4 Oct. 2023.
4. https://www.facebook.com/jamigold.author. “Writing Prompts: Helpful? Or a Waste of Time? — Guest: Savannah Cordova.” Jami Gold, Paranormal Author, 16 Apr. 2019, jamigold.com/2019/04/writing-prompts-helpful-or-a-waste-of-time-guest-savannah-cordova/. Accessed 4 Oct. 2023.
5. Jeff Goins “The Last Writing Prompt You Will Ever Need.” Goinswriter.com, 2015, goinswriter.com/writing-prompts/. Accessed 4 Oct. 2023.

Children gaze at a vast blank wall and see opportunity—inspired, they grab a permanent marker and scrawl across the surface in loopy circles and jaggedy lines without hesitation. 

Why, then, do we adults stare at the blank page—not unlike a blank wall—and freeze up? Instead of scribbling out ideas that fill the white screen, we writers often come up empty, the blank page producing a blank mind.

We get too far ahead of ourselves, thinking about readers before we’ve written a single word, afraid of what they’ll think. Or we second-guess our ideas or skills. We worry about that and more, and next thing you know…we stop writing and stare at that blinding white abyss, paralyzed.

The blank page need not intimidate or cripple us. Why? Because with the ideas below, you can fill that great expanse with words so that it’s never really blank when you open it.

Try one of them the next time you open a document and feel fear trickling down to your fingertips. I hope they’ll free you up long before you freeze and you’ll replace fear with joy by effortlessly filling the page with words.

1. Templates

Create templates for your content, whether it’s a newsletter, blog post, or podcast. By inserting the structural elements you tend to use each time, you approach the page with a sense of familiarity. Templates serve as a framework to jumpstart your writing process, making the page feel less daunting.

2. Outlines

Embrace the power of outlines. The classic 5-paragraph essay structure you learned long ago—with an introduction, three main points, and conclusion—is a reliable starting point for informative articles. For more creative pieces, try narrative outlines with a three-act structure (even if it’s short) or a beginning, middle, end approach. Outlines help you organize your thoughts and create a roadmap for your writing, banishing the fear of the blank page. See the links below for ready-made outlines you can use to add structure to your document.

3. Record Yourself & Transcribe

Take a walk and record your thoughts about the topic you want to write about. Then, get a transcription made of that recording and paste it in—you’ve eliminated the blank page altogether. It’s as if you’re simply editing and expanding on (and refining) your existing thoughts, which is far less intimidating than starting from scratch with nothing but a blank page and blinking cursor.

4. Record a Conversation & Transcribe

Meet with a friend on a virtual platform like Zoom, click the record button, and explain your idea. As your friend engages with questions, you’ll be able to clarify and delve deeper. This approach captures your natural voice as you share what you’ve been researching and thinking about. Thank your friend, download the audio, and then use a program like Happy Scribe or Rev.com’s AI transcription service to transcribe the conversation. You’ll end up with a working draft for your writing project. TIP: more and more free AI transcription services are cropping up, so be sure to search for the latest options and you might not even have to pay. 

5. Pull from Your Journal

If you’ve been jotting down ideas, thoughts, or snippets of writing in a journal or a similar document, don’t let them go to waste. Pull something from there and paste it into your current document to kickstart your writing. Things like Morning Pages, Dream Journals, and freewriting can be sources of inspiration.

6. List Bullet Points

Before you even have a minute to think about the blank page, start writing your ideas in the form of bullet points—they don’t have to be complete thoughts or sentences. No more blank page! And you’ll have prompts you can use to draft your content. You can expand on each bullet point to develop your ideas further, gradually filling the blank page with meaningful content. Move them around until you find the ideal flow and structure. Problem solved.

7. AI Writing Apps

If you’re open to experimentation, consider using an AI writing app. These tools can generate ideas and even provide outlines based on your input. While they may not perfectly replicate your voice, they can jumpstart your creativity and offer valuable suggestions—maybe even a rough draft you can work with—reducing the intimidation factor of a blank page. Manage your expectations, though, because it may take a long time before it comes close to matching your style and writing voice. Use it as a starting point before making the final project sound like you.

Beat the Blank Page & Write with Confidence

With these fill-the-page strategies, you can conquer the blank page and approach your writing with confidence and creativity. Each method makes the page less daunting, so you can seize the opportunity and make your mark on the world with your words, scribbled with joy.

Try one of these ideas this week and let me know how well it works for you!

Resources:

• Ready-made outline: Problem-Solution (this articles shows how you can apply this outline to different projects, including opinion pieces, blog posts, and nonfiction books)
• Ready-made outline: Past-Present-Future (this article makes an argument for outlining; scroll down for applications of this outline)
• Ready-made outline: Zoom In / Zoom Out

Download a copy of How to Generate Ideas for Writing (all in one handy pdf)!

When I was visiting my grandmother one summer afternoon, she pulled out a letter I sent her.

“This is good,” she said.

“Really?”

She pointed at the paragraphs and said the ideas were well organized, my writing flowed well, and I included lots of details. “It was interesting to read,” she said.

Then she looked up at me and smiled. “Maybe we have another writer in the family?”

Did I gasp? Her words certainly sent a jolt through me. Did she know how badly I wanted to write? Could she have known how much I yearned to be a writer?

Surely the thought of me as a writer seemed far-fetched to her. After all, my mother was a seasoned editor and columnist, endowed with innate writing talents—Grandma saw her earn accolades in college and as a career journalist.

My father was an editor at a prominent metropolitan newspaper, shaping stories, crafting headlines, and curating front-page content.

Even my brother, a skilled wordsmith, showed promise as a creative writer, eventually becoming an award-winning copywriter for ad campaigns.

And then there was me—Grandma knew her granddaughter was a sprinter on the track team, a clarinetist in the band, and a dedicated student earning good grades. Yet, no one, myself included, saw me as a writer…well, I helped put the school newspaper together, but I was hardly an ace reporter.

Yet here she was, encouraging me to write, cheering me on.

During that brief exchange when pointing out the strengths of my letter, Grandma kindled a spark of hope within me.

External Validation Bolsters Us

While external validation shouldn’t dictate our writing journey, it bolsters us when we face the inevitable resistance that hits us from within and without. Her words reverberated in my head (and my heart) for years, counteracting doubts that crept in, giving me courage to push past obstacles and move toward a future with words.

Around that time, my best friend in high school praised the short story I wrote: “The Medallion of Kilimanjaro.” Her sincere reaction made me believe I could tell a captivating story.

A few years later, my college boyfriend nudged me to enroll in creative writing at our university—his vote of confidence aligned with Grandma’s earlier endorsement, solidifying my self-perception as a writer.

In one of those creative writing classes, a poetry professor urged me to submit my work to the undergraduate journal. Armed with her belief in my potential, I sent in three. The outcome exceeded my expectations—each of the three submissions was accepted for publication, and one poem secured a prize.

I could continue to list even more people who added to that chorus of encouragement, bolstering my confidence. Editors, friends, team leaders, mentors. With their voices cheering me on, I took risks. With their affirmations in my head and heart, I pursued a writing career—I built a writing life.

Who Cheered You on as a Writer?

Who cheered you on throughout your writing journey?
Who pointed out your potential and steered you toward a life of words?
Whose voices gave you confidence?

Was it a mentor, teacher, peer, editor, friend, or coach?

If they never voiced their thoughts, would you have given up?

Make a list of the people who offered you encouragement to pursue this path. If possible, track some of them down and thank them.

Perhaps you could mail them a letter?

After that…cheer on another writer. Encourage them as they face obstacles on the path to achieving their writing goals.

When you do, you’ll be one of the powerful voices adding to the chorus of those who give them confidence to stick with it—to pursue writing and build a writing life.

Resources:

• My Writing Life Beginnings, Pt 1
• My Writing Life Beginnings, Pt 2
• Writers: Never, Never, Never Give Up
• 5 Writing Strengths

Just as musicians credit their musical influences, writers, too, have literary inspirations who help them discover and shape their unique voice.

At a White House event for poets in 2011, Billy Collins said to students about finding your voice:

You’re searching for the poets who make you jealous…you’re looking to get influenced by people who make you furiously jealous…And then copy them.¹

Billy himself was influenced by the work of Wallace Stevens—I suppose he would say he was furiously jealous of him.

Anne Lamott’s Seemingly Effortless Prose

Author Shauna Niequist openly mentions the influence of Anne Lamott on her work.

The first time I read Anne Lamott, I thought, “Is this allowed? People can write like this and it gets published?”

I laughed at her sometimes-crass and often sarcastic style. She opened the door to a whole new way of writing, with honesty and sass. While hers was not exactly my style, I admired the conversational tone—the seemingly stream-of-consciousness flow of ideas—that, upon close examination, were carefully crafted.

That skill to make her work seem like it effortlessly spilled onto the page but was actually carefully constructed?

That made me furiously jealous.

Annie Dillard’s Literary Craftsmanship

My friend and co-author Charity Singleton Craig has mentioned Annie Dillard’s impact on her. She frequently quotes her and I sense hints of that literary genius in my friend, as well as in Dillard.

I read Annie Dillard in my early 20s and wondered, “What is this?” I liked it, but I didn’t “get it.” I didn’t understand what she was doing.

But I saw that she stitched her work together with precision using the tools of a literary craftsman. And that, I admired.

That made me furiously jealous.

Madeleine L’Engle’s Bridges of Trust, Love, and Hope

As a child, I read Madeleine L’Engle’s A Wrinkle in Time. Whether I voiced it or not, I know I wondered, “How did she do that?”

At that time I didn’t want to write in that style or genre, but she led us to trust, love, and hope through the delight of quirky characters. I was thrilled how intimately she connected with her reader—with me. I was grateful at the time.

Now, as an adult who writes, I’m furiously jealous. I want to create bridges of trust, love, and hope, as well.

Scott Russell Sanders’ Unpretentious Midwestern Truth

Charity and I attended a lecture by Scott Russell Sanders. In my notebook, I scribbled notes. Then I leaned back and listened. Finally, I wrote, “I want to write like that” on the page of my notebook. I tilted the page toward Charity to show it to her. She nodded.

She could see I was furiously jealous.

He writes about the Midwest, where I’m from, so I’m always impressed with how he brings it to life. His work connects with me in the familiar references of trees and rivers and birds. He names them and I know them.

He makes creative choices seem less mysterious than Dillard and more accessible. He’s conversational in some ways but not curmudgeonly like Anne Lamott. When I read him, I think, “Hey, I could try that.”

He’ll tell stories, create scenes, and introduce a theme, a phrase, a word. He presses in, gently, a little more—labyrinthine at times and progressively, sequentially, other times.

I want to write like that.

He’s unpretentious. I can tell that the ideas and stories he shares on the page are true. When I met him at that event with Charity, it was clear: he is who he seems to be on the page.

That’s who I am and want to be, too, in my writing.

In life.

Unpretentious.

I want to be like that.

What Writers Make You Furiously Jealous?

When you say about a writer or author “I want to write like that,” that’s a creative influence.

When a writer’s work makes you furiously jealous, that’s a creative influence.

When you think, “Hey, I could try that!” that’s a creative influence.

Make a list of all the people whose work makes you furiously jealous—maybe even make a list of the work itself.

Then ask:

What do I love about this piece?

How is its sound, topic, and style appealing to me?

Why does it speak to me?

What about it could I learn from it?

How could I emulate it without plagiarizing?

Study that work.

Pick apart that prose.

Underline and circle and copy out sentences from that work. Figure out how they did it. Because writers who make you furiously jealous are your best mentors.

And as you study them—as they mentor you—like Billy said, they’ll lead you to your own authentic voice.

Want quick fixes to improve your writing style?

Sign up for the FREE course, Make Your Sentences Sing: 7 Sentence Openers to Add Music to Your Prose.

CLICK to sign up (free!)

Footnote:

1. The. “Poetry Student Workshop at the White House.” YouTube, YouTube Video, 11 May 2011, www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVIOKLXK9uY&t=1870s. Accessed 3 Aug. 2023.

On a sunny spring day, I sat with seven homeschoolers on a stretch of grass for a creative writing session. The older kids started to fidget before we even started.

“What are we doing out here?”

“We’re going to see what’s around us.”

A fifth grader pointed with his pen. “I see sky, clouds, cars, building. Done.” The others laughed.

“We’re going to be quiet and listen, too,” I added.

“I hear birds. Done.” More chuckles.

“Before we write,” I began, “Let’s look at the sky. What color is it?”

Someone said blue.

“What kind of blue? There are so many blues. Is it dark blue like these navy pants? Or is it blue like turquoise? Or is it the kind of blue you want to swim in? Or the color of your mom’s eyes?”

They looked up. “Write down phrases that describe this particular blue at this particular moment of this particular day. Compare it to other things that are blue.”

They studied the sky, and one by one, each started writing.

“What else do you see—you mentioned clouds. What kind of clouds? Puffy white cumulus clouds or light and filmy cirrus clouds?”

Group Your Senses

We continued exploring multi-sensory details. They grouped their ideas by sense, so each stanza of the poem they were going to write began:

I see…

I hear…

I smell…

I touch…

I taste…

This simple “senses” poem isn’t just for kids. You could try sensory writing, too.

Sensory Writing Practice

Slow down and tune into the space around you, ideally outdoors.

Look, listen, inhale deeply.

What do you notice at this particular moment of this particular day? Write down keywords and adjectives.

Capture images and sounds.

What smells do you breathe in?

Compare those details to something else. You’ll be crafting metaphors with nouns and more seemingly unrelated nouns that end up enhancing meaning.

Touch different textures.

Taste something—well, taste what’s appropriate (don’t eat anything poisonous)!

As you capture the particulars, you’ll realize that this moment is one-of-a-kind, and you’re writing about it using all your senses, as those kids did.

Pull Your Senses Together

When you realize the poem is coming together, group the sensory details you’ve described to form those stanzas:

I see…

I hear…

I smell…

I touch…

I taste…

Rearrange as needed, of course.

Write an opening line if you like. Maybe two.

Write a closing line if you like. Maybe two. Maybe three.

Read it aloud.

Sensory Writing for Life

You’ve preserved in multi-sensory detail a moment of your wild and precious life.

And you’ve practiced a skill you can use in all your writing to bring your stories and scenes to life for your reader with this multi-sensory detail.

Years ago I attended a writing workshop and the leader referenced Flannery O’Connor, paraphrasing a section of “The Nature and Aim of Fiction” from ​Mystery and Manners: Occasional Prose​:

A lady who writes, and whom I admire very much, wrote me that she had learned from Flaubert that it takes at least three activated sensuous strokes to make an object real; and she believes that this is connected with our having five senses. If you’re deprived of any of them, you’re in a bad way, but if you’re deprived of more than two at once, you almost aren’t present. (Emphasis mine, 69)

The workshop leader held up an imaginary artist’s brush and said, “One, two, three…and you’re done!”

Include in your poetry and prose—fiction or nonfiction—at least three sensory details and your reader will be in the scene with you.

Read It Aloud and Applaud

Right there in the grass on that day with the homeschooled kids, they arranged their poems, scribbling into spiral notebooks balanced on bony knees.

When we brought them back inside, each child read their poem aloud for the other mom, who had stayed inside while we wrote. We applauded after each poem.

One of them read a simple series of images and metaphors. We applauded. He grinned a sheepish grin and then shook his head after making eye contact with his mom.

I looked over; she was wiping away tears. “That was beautiful,” she said, stopping to swallow and press the corners of her eyes to dam them up.

She smiled and looked at each child. “They are all so, so beautiful.”

You see the world—and your corner of the world—like no one else. The comparisons you make, the metaphors you form, flow from your own connections and history.

Bring your world to life.

One, two, three…and you’re done!

Resources:

• A version of this story was first published at Tweetspeak Poetry; read it HERE.
• Read or listen to “Writers Should Say Yes to New Experiences”

FREE Email Course

Why doesn’t your writing linger with readers?

Grab this free, four-lesson course: Metaphor Magic. Master this literary device and your words will stick with readers long after they step away from your pages.

Footnote:

O’Connor, Flannery. Mystery and Manners: Occasional Prose. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 1974. (69)

Jennifer Dukes Lee ​invites you to transform into a better writer​ through “beautifully ruthless self-discovery.”

It starts in the pages of your journal.

In a recent interview, she delves into the therapeutic benefits of daily gratitude journaling and its potential to rewire our brains. By writing down things we’re grateful for, our minds seek out the positive.

Jennifer recommends guided journals when we’re stymied by writer’s block. The blank page of a traditional journal can overwhelm us. What should we say? Where should we start?

Guided journals aren’t blank pages—they provide prompts and structure when you’re stuck or unsure of what to write.

She stresses that journaling serves as a valuable tool for self-discovery and creative expression. When you use journaling to explore your experiences, memories, and struggles, you can weave your discoveries into your writing. This deep dive into the human condition adds depth and authenticity to all our writing: poetry, creative nonfiction, online writing, and fiction.

Jennifer introduces questions from her guided journal: some profound, some silly. Either way, they open you up and lead to deeper self-knowledge.

Some of your journal entries will be personal and remain private, just as her recent book title suggests: Stuff I’d Only Tell God.

Other entries you could share with a family member or friend, creating deeper connections through your vulnerability.

You’ll see how journaling unleashes your creative potential and invites you to be more open, leaving a lasting impact on yourself, your closest relationships, and your readers.

Listen in on our discussion—and start journaling—to become a more authentic and impactful writer.

Meet Jennifer Dukes Lee

Jennifer Dukes Lee is a bestselling author, thinker, and question-asker from Iowa. Her friends say they’re scared to sit alone in a room with her because they end up telling her things they never intended to say. She is both proud of this fact and also a little annoyed at how nosy she can be.

She put a bunch of her favorite questions into a journal called Stuff I’d Only Tell God. It’s like your own little confession booth.

She’s also the author of Growing Slow and It’s All Under Control.

Subscribe to her newsletter Top Ten with Jen to get the inside scoop on stuff that is blowing her mind, encouraging her heart, and refreshing her soul (subscribe and you’ll also get immediate access to free resources): https://jenniferdukeslee.com/subscribe/

Connect with Jennifer:

• Learn more at jenniferdukeslee.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JenniferDukesLee
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenniferdukeslee/
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jenniferdukeslee
• Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/dukeslee/
• Subscribe to Top Ten with Jen: https://jenniferdukeslee.com/subscribe/

Time Stamps

The whole interview is packed with inspiration and ideas, but perhaps these time stamps help you navigate to places in our discussion that may seem more interesting.

5:29 Courageous honesty leads to self-discovery.
7:21 Journaling and memory keeping.
8:53 Journaling is essential for writing.
11:23 Gratitude journaling and its impact.
14:48 Journaling can inspire and inform.
15:01 Inspiration from journaling.
16:27 Outline and plan your writing.
19:06 The short form writing process.
22:03 Journaling preserves memories and emotions.
24:09 Capturing memories through journaling.
26:33 Journaling sparks creative self-discovery.
29:08 Writing about interesting moments.
29:35 Birds and dreaming.
31:38 Trust the spark, capture it.
35:56 Treating journals with different purposes.
37:48 Social media and storytelling.
41:33 Battle with depression and anxiety.

Transcript

(Transcripts are reviewed and lightly edited.)

Ann Kroeker I’m Ann Kroeker, writing coach. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome! If you’re a regular, welcome back.

Today I’m with Jennifer Dukes Lee, author of the guided journal Stuff I’d Only Tell God, and we’re discussing how courageously honest journaling can make us a better writer. Jennifer’s a best-selling author, thinker, and question-asker from Iowa, and she’s also a personal friend.

Her friends say they’re scared to sit in the same room with her because they’re afraid they’re going to tell her things they never intended to share. She says she’s proud of that, but also a little annoyed at how nosy she can be. Well, she put a lot of her questions into this one resource, Stuff I’d Only Tell God. It’s like your own little confession booth. She’s also author of Growing Slow, and It’s All Under Control. You can learn more about Jennifer at jenniferdukeslee.com.

Jennifer, it’s great to have you on the show. Welcome.

Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah, we better watch out. According to that bio, I might turn the tables today and start peppering you with questions.

[laughter]

Life will never make sense until we get curious enough to ask good questions.

Ann Kroeker And you know, you’re more than just a guest here appearing. You’re also my friend. And so yeah, I can vouch for the fact that you do ask great questions.

And you ask great questions not only as a friend, but also with your background as a reporter.

And then all these years of being an author, and working with authors, you know, you’re funneling all that into this new book, Stuff I’d Only Tell God.

So, one thing I noticed when I opened it up and I looked inside, read through the prompts, I realized, first of all, I’ve got a lot of writing to do using these prompts for a very long time. There are plenty that will get me through, I think, more than a year for me.

But one of the things you said at the beginning was this. You write, “Here’s what I know to be true. Life will never make sense until we get curious enough to ask good questions.”

Say a little bit more about that from your background that I just described.

We get to know each other through the questions that we ask each other.

01:52 Jennifer Dukes Lee Well, when you think just relationally how we get to know one another, it’s the questions that we ask each other. I’m still learning about my husband of 27 years due to just asking questions out of this journal, for instance.

And life doesn’t make sense, relationships don’t make sense, faith doesn’t make sense until we get brave enough to ask good questions.

I come from a Christian background and a Christian worldview. And my way to faith was through questions. I was a deep, deep intellectual doubter of God and Jesus. And it was questions that led me into a life of faith. It’s questions that now I consider Jesus, my CEO of my ministry, when it was like 20 years ago, I didn’t even know if he existed.

So yeah, questions have helped everything make sense. And I’m just going to keep asking them to learn more about myself and learn more about people and learn more about God.

Questions have helped everything make sense.

02:49 Ann Kroeker I love it. And this book you have, it’s Stuff I’d Only Tell God, but what you just pointed out is that you actually can use these questions not only for your personal self-reflection, but to grow closer to other people. And so it’s not really stuff I’d only tell God.

I did notice that you have a section that’s like, you probably don’t want to … [you might want to] shove this part under your mattress. But you say in the subtitle it’s a guided journal of “courageous honesty, obsessive truth-telling, and beautifully ruthless self-discovery.” What does that mean to you? And how do people process all of that?

Really dig in and go hard after the truth of your own life.

03:31 Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah, I wanted to convey the passionate aspect of this book, to really dig in. Journaling in general is digging in and pressing into how you’re feeling or pressing into your worries and your fears, your doubts, whatever it is. But I am calling people to go on an even deeper journey. And so I’m like, how do I convey that? What are the words that I could use?

And I remember sitting on the couch while Scott was watching Netflix and I was supposed to be watching Netflix, but I’m like, as a writer, I’m like busily in the notes app of my phone trying to craft this idea. And it just came to me and I’m like, Scott, pause Netflix. I’ve got to read this to you.

And it conveys that passion of honesty is one thing, but recognizing that there’s a certain kind of honesty that takes real courage. That’s where “courageous honesty” comes in, because it does take courage to get honest about what’s going on in our lives. It takes courage to look into our past and see how that’s shaped who we are today. It takes courageous honesty to ask God some important questions and to get honest with him about what’s going on in our lives.

And then when it comes to that “obsessive truth telling,” leave nothing behind. Just be obsessive about it. Really dig in and go hard after the truth of your own life.

When it comes to that “obsessive truth telling,” leave nothing behind.

And then the “beautifully ruthless self-discovery,” self-discovery is almost a buzzword, it’s just learning more about yourself so you can decide what you want to be as you move forward. But I know that the kind of self-discovery I’m asking people to do in this guided journal is ruthless. It’s hard to dig like that, but in the end, it’s beautiful. So that’s how I came up with “beautifully ruthless self-discovery.” So it conveys, I think, an idea of I’m going to do this thing and it’s going to make a difference. And if it’s going to make a real difference, then I need to give it all I’ve got.

05:33 Ann Kroeker Well, when I looked at those questions, as I said, I think it’s going to take me a very long time to work through them. And it’s for that very reason. It’s going to be a deep dive and hard work. And I don’t want to just rush through them. I want to spend some time with them and I hope that your readers do as well. And do you feel like this cross-section of being a writer, which you are, an author, you write regularly, you have great social media posts that really go deeper than what is normal, how much would you say your journaling intersects with your own writing efforts and projects?

06:09 Jennifer Dukes Lee Oh, quite a bit. I have sitting over here about seven different journals. Like you can’t see them in the camera, but I have a number of them. I’m going to show you a few of them actually.

So of course I’ve got Stuff I’d only tell God.

Multiple things in [journals] have then become social media posts, which may end up in books.

I have a gratitude journal. And when you take time to pause about what you’re grateful for, like all the time I’m like, oh yeah, like here, Beth Moore ministry was number 665. And I ended up making a post about something related to the Beth Moore ministry that has become my biggest Instagram post of all time. Just because I happen to just write it in a gratitude journal, whether it’ll make it in a book, I don’t know. But like there’s multiple things in here that have then become social media posts, which may end up in books that usually goes in that order.

I have a prayer journal where I keep track of things that I just need to pray about.

I have a commonplacing journal. I use this one a lot in my writing of books. This is where I keep quotes and other people’s thoughts and ideas and knowledge. This dates back, especially to the Renaissance era, where people would, they would call them commonplacing books and they would write down things that meant something to them. And I love doing the same thing. So this will definitely make its way into books because I keep quotes that I love.

I have a couple other journals here, but this one is very basic, very boring. It almost is like, I call it a memory-keeping journal. And in here are stories and sometimes just phrases or snippets. It’s not pretty on the outside. It’s not like Instagram-able, but they’re ideas and thoughts that I don’t want to forget. And often these will make … the memory-keeping journal stories will make their way into social media posts and into books.

Furthermore, I have the Notes app, which I treat as a journal. I told you, I’ve got a lot of them! And if I think of something, it’s going down in the notes app that counts as journaling.

And then finally, I have a running document on my computer called “Possible Posts,” which is really just a running list of ideas. And it’s 16,500 words. This is my one for this year. I started it in the spring, but that’s just all kinds of ideas and thoughts. And so I go to that file and I write from that particular document. And that counts as journaling too. Some of it makes its way into social media. Then some of it makes its way into a book. Some of it stays just for me, but it is just an absolute vital part of my ministry and my book writing.

Ann Kroeker How do you keep track of them all?

Jennifer Dukes Lee I don’t go through them every day.

Ann Kroeker Yeah. Okay. [voices overlap] Go ahead.

Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah. I don’t go through them every day. I think that can be overwhelming when people hear about all the journals that I keep.

Some journals, maybe the memory-keeping one, I’m only in maybe once a week.

The gratitude journal, maybe a bit more. Commonplacing, it just depends on what I see.

So I know what they look like and they’re at the ready whenever I need them. The one that I’m in the most, quite honestly, is the Word document because it’s on my computer, which is where I create content for people in books and social media posts.

09:27 Ann Kroeker Okay. I’m going to just camp here for just a second because I get really practical and very curious. You said they’re always at the ready. You’ve always got these analog books, these physical books ready to fill in. Like when I’m traveling, I like to keep things pretty digital because then it’s lightweight. It’s always with me. Do you take these with you everywhere?

09:52 Jennifer Dukes Lee No, I don’t. I have been taking Stuff I’d Only Tell God with me. I’ve been doing a lot of travel this summer, mostly because I have committed to doing what I’m asking other people to do. So that is the one that I have taken. I also have been taking, I usually take this one, this is Praying the Scriptures for Your Kids. So this is how I parent now. I’m “prayerenting,” I call it, because my kids are now out of the house and so I’ve been praying the scriptures. But every once in a while, I’ve taken a gratitude journal or if I think I’m going to find some interesting stories, I might take my memory-keeping journal. But usually just one, maybe two, sometimes none.

10:26 Ann Kroeker So if you’ve got somebody who’s never really journaled before, obviously the best first step is to buy Stuff I’d Only Tell God. How can they make their decision about like, “I’m ready to do more with this”? Maybe they’ve had a stop-start experience with journaling in the past. Where should they begin to try to make this an ongoing habit?

Would you survive a zombie apocalypse?

10:51 Jennifer Dukes Lee It depends on if you like the idea of a guided journal or not. So Stuff I’d Only Tell God has thousands of questions in it that are very deep, but also like really quirky. Things like, “Would you survive a zombie apocalypse?” for instance.

So there’s just fun questions like that, but also questions about your past and your, you know, if you want to just like delve in and have somebody sort of help you along down this path of journaling Stuff I’d Only Tell God or any kind of guided journal would be super helpful for you.

If you don’t really, you’re not really into that and you don’t want to be told what to write, then making a gratitude journal would be a really great place to start because you just start numbering it and write down things you’re grateful for.

And that’s such a positive, that has an immediate therapeutic impact on your life. We know that journaling is therapeutic, but if you journal and write down things that you’re grateful for, your mind gets trained to begin to scan your environment looking for positive, good things for.

We have to train our brains to be positive, so a gratitude journal might be a really great place to start.

Our brains are actually wired to see the negative. We were made that way, honestly, to keep us safe so that long, long time ago we wouldn’t just say, “Oh, I wonder what that was in the bushes. It’s probably just the wind,” but you know, then it turned out to be a tiger. So we have negativity bias for a reason and it still works for us now when we’re like in a parking lot and it’s dark and there’s people around.

And so we have a negativity bias to be a little bit scared, but we have to train our brains to be positive, so a gratitude journal might be a really great place to start. If you are a writer, don’t feel bad. If you’re listening … you’re probably a writer if you’re listening to Ann’s podcast here.

I think the thing that I felt a little bit shameful about is that I could not do a blank journal very well. I would literally get writer’s block. I’m like, “I don’t know what to say. I don’t know what to do.” And so I just wouldn’t journal unless I had a specific reason. That’s why I have so many different kinds of journals. And I’m thinking if I, as a writer who’s been writing books for this many years, get writer’s block while journaling, then I think other people do too. And so a guided journal can be a great place to start.

13:03 Ann Kroeker Starting without it being a blank page. So starting with something on it does seem like a great way to kind of kickstart things, so you’re not starting from scratch, not staring at the blank page.

There are some things in a journal … can make their way out into the world and really serve a good purpose.

13:13 Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah. I mean, it could end up being, I think for speaking again to the writers who are listening, answering some of the prompts in a guided journal like mine could end up being like, “Oh my goodness, this is like a whole chapter!” or “This is a whole book!” or it’s certainly, “I could make a social media post out of this.” You could go through that and I think really get yourself some good content to move forward.

I did one the other day called “Dear Younger Me.” And I wrote a letter to my younger self, which there’s space in the book to do that. And after I wrote it, I’m like, “I’ll bet somebody else could use that kind of thought about their younger self some, too.” And so I ended up sharing it on social media and it did really, really well. And a lot of people related to it.

There’s another one, “Things I Would Want Myself to Know on a Hard Day.” I ended up making a Reel out of the content that I put on that particular journal prompt. And it did really well because it spoke to other people when I was speaking from such a vulnerable place.

So some things you will just want to keep between you and God. But I think that there are some things in a journal like this or in any journal that eventually can make their way out into the world and really serve a good purpose.

14:32 Ann Kroeker And you’ve got a place to store it so that if you’re not ready right away, you can come back to it later. And there it is preserved, the thought, the exploration that you did. I asked people on Instagram to ask me if they had any questions they wanted me to specifically ask you. And Erica Baldwin said, “Have any of your previous books been inspired by your past journal entries?” So you talked already about how you’ve used it for short form, but how about your actual, the full length books? Have your journals?

Almost everything that you see in a book, at least the nugget of it, the seed of it started in a journal that made its way into a short form post on Facebook and Instagram.

15:01 Jennifer Dukes Lee Absolutely. And I’m going to, at this moment, treat journaling very broadly. I’m going to treat journaling also as answers that I put in Bible studies, the words that I put in my journaling Bible, where I can write in the margins where something will occur to me related to, you know, something in Exodus, like, “Oh, wow,” which actually happened when I wrote one of my Bible studies, it ended up coming into my Bible study, the notes that were in my, the side of my journal, it became a whole chapter or a whole session, if you will.

So very regularly, almost everything that you see in a book, at least the nugget of it, the seed of it started in a journal that made its way into a short form post on Facebook and Instagram. And then it made its way into a book.

I don’t have the entirety of a book out on social media. But if somebody watches my social media closely enough, they can probably figure out what I’m going to write next, because I’m just working it out. I’m just like, you know, this is stuff that I care about. I wonder if other people care about this. So I’m always like, ideating what I’m writing and thinking through what else to put out there.

Ann Kroeker We’re all going to be prowling through trying to pick up the clues.

Jennifer Dukes Lee Well, tell me if you see anything that looks like it should be if you’re listening and you see something that looks like a good next book, then do let me know because I’m trying to figure it out.

16:22 Ann Kroeker DM her! Let her know that’s going to resonate. Well, while we’re talking about your books, Twyla Franz asked this: “Do you outline where you’re going or let the writing lead? Also, is it different for long versus short writing?

Put together … an outline, an idea of where you’re going. It serves as a roadmap.

16:33 Jennifer Dukes Lee I do outline extensively for the books that I write. And that’s why I think even if you got a book contract without a book proposal, you should basically still put together the book proposal in terms of the chapter summaries and an idea of where you’re going. It serves as a roadmap. I’m very old fashioned in the way that I do this.

I actually have color coded cards and I have the chapter and what I think the chapter will be.

I have one color I’ll do in the key story.

One color will be the big takeaway.

And if there are any practical tips, that will be another color.

And then if there’s some kind of a Bible story, since I’m a Christian book writer, then that would be like in red or something like that.

So then I put them on the wall and I move them around and get them in the right order.

And on a writing day, I look at the wall and I pull one off. “That one, that’s the one I’m going to do today.” And I sit down with the card and I start.

So that’s the process that works for me. And I can, when I see it all together on the wall and move it into application software, I guess, called Scrivener. That is also kind of based on the same idea of little cards. It looks like that on Scrivener. And I do use that then as well. So it kind of moves, it migrates into the online cards. But that’s what’s worked for me for a long time.

And it’s what I coach other writers to do if they’re stuck. In fact, I’m an acquisitions editor, so I do help authors all the time, put their books together.

One last year was with a Nashville author and she’s like, “Jennifer, I’m stuck.” And I’m like, “Well, I’m getting a plane ticket.”

So I flew out and I brought my little cards and I’m like, “We’re going to map your book. And by the end of this day, you will know what the book is.” And we did it. And the book comes out real soon and I’m so excited about it. And it’s really, really, really good. We did exactly that: we just went through what’s the story, what’s the theme, what’s the takeaway, if there’s any practical helps, what can we put in there. And in her case, she had some biblical guidance. So we had that on the cards too.

Ann Kroeker Brilliant.

Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah. The short form is less structured like that, or is less structured. It doesn’t have like a card system. And I assume that Twyla means like a blog post or a social media post. That is usually more just, I have an idea of what I’m going to write.

And I either start with kind of an impactful, thought-provoking question, or more often than not, I start with a short personal story before I move into whatever I’m trying to, whatever, you know, if there’s a teaching or a lesson or some bit of encouragement, I usually start first with my story and then move into speaking directly to the reader.

In the same way that I was interrogating police chiefs and mayors and governors, I began to interrogate my own life in that way.

19:36 Ann Kroeker Do you ever feel that there’s a danger of being a little too vulnerable? Because you’re very open about your life. And I’m wondering if some of the people who are tuning in might be feeling like, “I don’t know about being so brutally honest with myself and then vulnerable with others, especially online in a place where it’s now available for anybody to read.” How do you deal with that?

20:00 Jennifer Dukes Lee I just, you know, I literally don’t think about it. It’s so, I mean, that’s probably not the answer that you would want or think, but I have been writing online in a pretty open way since 2009. I just don’t know another way. It was hard at first because all of my other writing up to that point was about other people and other events because I was a newspaper reporter.

But in the same way that I was interrogating police chiefs and mayors and governors, I began to interrogate my own life in that way. So I feel like turnabout’s fair play. So I put a lot, there’s not a lot that’s off the record. Let’s just put it that way in news terms. And I feel comfortable with it. I’ve seen too much fruit to turn back now.

Ann Kroeker Yes, I mean, that last line makes sense because if we do hold back, then maybe we’re just skimming the surface and never really going to the places that people want and need to go to for their own transformation. Is that what I’m sensing from you here?

21:06 Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah, I think so. Now I think there is a place for holding back if it’s just sort of like unprocessed grief or unprocessed hurt, or if it’s, “I’m going to say this in the name of vulnerability, but I’m really just going to be passive aggressive because I know that friend is going to be reading my social media posts.” You know? I mean, there’s a difference, right? So I think that you have to give yourself time to work through some things.

On the other hand, there are more harmless things that are in life that aren’t fully processed. For instance, my dad passed away in September. And the grief that I was feeling was expressed in real time on my social media. And while it was helpful for other people to read it, who were also grieving at some point in their lives, it was also very therapeutic for me.

And that’s the value of journaling. It’s just that my journals tend to be just a bit more public than most, but that is what I was doing through grief. And that one of the ways that it was therapeutic is that I knew that my pain was serving a really good purpose because I could see it in the comments and I could see it in my own life.

And now I have this real-time record of the pain I was feeling, the hope I was finding, all of those kinds of things.

Lists count as journaling.

There was something that I’d never wrote about and I didn’t write about it in my journal. I didn’t write about it in my notes app on my phone. And I had a fit about it about two or three nights ago. And I was in the grocery store parking lot. Then I texted my sister frantically in tears. And I’m like, “What did dad say? Remember when I asked him that one question and he said this one answer and I can’t find it anywhere. And I’ve got to know, I don’t know where it is. I don’t have it in any of my journals.” I was frantic.

Well, thankfully, my sister, Julianne, is a Notes app journaler. And she says, “Well, here it is, Jennifer.” And she took a screenshot and sent it to me.

And I think that that’s the power of it. This memory-keeping journal, if I don’t write things down, it’s just all these things that I think I would never forget. I do.

I wish that I had written down the way I felt on my wedding day. Things that I thought that I would never forget. And I don’t remember some details. I wish that I would have written down more about the way I felt when my girls were born. And I didn’t. And so much of it is gone.

23:41 Ann Kroeker I didn’t either. And I, like you, I regret it. In those moments though, it’s so like you’re getting married or you’re in the thick of dealing with a newborn. It’s really hard to figure out how, “Oh, I’m going to take a moment now to pull out my journal.” And in the chaos, “Hold on a second, honey. I know it’s our wedding night, but I got to write some things down.” How do we find appropriate times to capture the moment before it’s gone, but not interrupt life?

24:09 Jennifer Dukes Lee Right. I mean, obviously you don’t have to do it the night of, or, you know, like I didn’t pull out my journal at dad’s funeral or anything like that. But when I did get home and the dust had settled … like, I’ll just read this. All these things mean something to me. “Co-regulation, clap offering, my hand on dad’s chest, the hidden stairs, how Justin came from Canada. When you place your hand on your own heart when you talk to people.” I know what all those things mean. They don’t mean anything to anybody else. But because I have just that snippet, now I can build that out more.

So I didn’t have time. I didn’t have the energy. I still don’t have, in some ways, the capacity emotionally to address some of these in full, but I have enough there now that the memory is immediately coming back.

So that would be one way to do it. It’s not this, I think this counts as journaling. Lists count as journaling.

25:10 Ann Kroeker Yes. So you’ve got little fragments, you’ve got key words. Maybe you have some multi-sensory elements you want to remember and retain. Maybe the actual phrase seems key based on what you said about that frantic feeling that you lost what your dad had said. Those seem like things to preserve without having to take the time to write the whole story. Is that what I’m hearing?

25:29 Jennifer Dukes Lee That’s exactly right. And sometimes it’s just too painful to write. But, you know, I mean, Julianne, my sister had written down all of these conversations and all these things that dad had said in the last month of his life. And I was just hoping that her journaling, that counts as journaling, that it would be there. And I am so used to having my fingertips be able to find those things that when I couldn’t, it was really troubling to me.

25:51 Ann Kroeker  Wow. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this person. His name is Matthew Dicks and he encourages what he gives an assignment that he calls “Homework for Life.” Have you ever heard of him?

[Jennifer shakes her head no.]

Homework for Life has to be done daily to really reap all the fruits from it. Does all journaling have to be daily?

So, he wrote a book called Storyworthy and helps people—trains people—on how to tell better stories. He’s a Moth Story Slam winner and trains people through a program. But this Homework for Life is very much like what you just described with these little fragments. That’s why I thought maybe you are familiar with it.

And he keeps it all in a spreadsheet and he encourages people to do it every single day. “Ask yourself, what’s the most story worthy moment from your day?” And like you, he says you don’t have to write it all out. Just the little fragments that are going to bring it to mind so you can access that memory later.

And of course he’s just picking one moment from the day, one story from the day that you can connect with other stories. So he encourages it has to be … homework for life has to be done daily to really reap all the fruits from it. So one question I would have for you is, do you agree with that mindset that to do it daily is critical? Do you feel that’s true?

A lot of what makes its way into books are very ordinary things.

26:59 Jennifer Dukes Lee I don’t know that I do it daily, but it makes me want to! Because, you know, these things were ones that seemed like big moments to me. But in the end, a lot of what makes its way, if let’s say, let’s say we’re talking directly to the writer at this moment, a lot of what makes its way into books are very ordinary things.

And I suppose in a way, my gratitude journal offers that. But there’s some things I’m not grateful for that should also be listed. So I’m learning a new practice. But the essence of what he’s talking about is what I’ve been doing intuitively. I just didn’t know it had a name and I love it.

27:38 Ann Kroeker It is trademarked. So you can’t steal it, but you can certainly give him credit.

Jennifer Dukes Lee and I can use it. I can use it in my own life. I love that.

Ann Kroeker He has a nice TEDx talk that you can watch to follow that.

Jennifer Dukes Lee I’m writing it down right now.

Ann Kroeker Put it in your commonplace journal!

Jennifer Dukes Lee I’m literally typing it into the one that’s on my desktop. This is what I do!

Ann Kroeker There we go. Right at hand.

28:07 Ann Kroeker  When it comes to writers, then, you talked about getting started for anybody who might be listening in, but especially for the writers—because as you say, that’s the audience here that we’re talking with …

We’ve talked about using a guided journal if you really don’t know where to start or if you want to be “courageously honest and beautifully ruthless” in your self-discovery.

In order to do that deep dive that you might want to do in your creative nonfiction, maybe in your online writing, or even as a novelist to get down to the real human condition that’s within—to infuse some of your characters with certain aspects, memories, struggles … so, right? That would be one outcome of it.

Then you also talked about the gratitude journal.

But is there any other writing-specific practice related to journaling that comes to mind that’s different from that or is that sufficient? Those two?

28:56 Jennifer Dukes Lee  Yeah. No, I think that’s good.

One that just came to mind as you were talking is every once in a while, well, quite often, I will see something just sort of interesting and I will sit down to write about it to see where it goes. I don’t even know what it means until…

So I’ll just read you an example from the journal. This is going to be kind of weird. Okay. So a bit of context is I was driving up the driveway and I saw pheasants along the driveway. Okay. And I was just observing them. Side note, I’ve been kind of obsessed with birds lately. That’s a whole other story. But okay. So here it is … I just came down and wrote:

“You know how pheasants do that thing where they run alongside your car, scared out of their minds, running as fast as they can. And then they take flight, but they stay low. They can’t fly any higher because of their weight. But for a time, they soar like any other bird can, but low, like you could reach up and grab them. This is the way I fly in my dreams. Soaring only for a little while low, always afraid someone is going to pull me out of the sky.”

So I didn’t know the part about me until I started writing about the pheasant. And I still don’t fully know what it means, but it’s, it’s the start of something that is, it says something to me about the way I dream.

And I’m wondering if it says something about me regarding the way I dream about my future. I wonder if it says something about how I’m afraid that I’m not really going to soar, that I’m not going to get high as high as the other birds and that I’m going to be pulled down.

To me, it seems to suggest that I’m not very good at dreaming big.

All from a pheasant.

So, you know, I mean, maybe that’s like super weird or super deep, but that, I think that’s the kind of thing that a journal can do as you, you know, as you go along.

So like, you know, like Lydia [her daughter], she’s been at Oxford for the past six months and she’s been telling me about “wild swimming.” That’s what they call it. If you don’t swim in a pool, you’re in a lake or a river or a pond, it’s called wild swimming, which I really, really like. So I’ve got this little start of something about wild swimming here. I have no idea what that means, or if there’s any, it doesn’t necessarily mean there’s any big lesson about it, but I just think it’s interesting concept, like the term wild swimming. So there you have it. I just, I think it’s just fun to explore ideas and nature and the things around us.

So many times we, we don’t trust the spark.

31:22 Ann Kroeker And you trusted that little spark that came to mind when you saw the pheasants, not knowing it was going to make that connection to your dreams, right? Like you just saw the pheasants and you went in and you captured the moment based on that spark.

I think so many times we, we don’t trust the spark. Anne Lamott talks about how everyone should carry a pencil because you get those little thoughts and then you don’t have something to write it down. Of course, this is before the time of smartphones, but you know, sometimes even with our smartphones, we don’t take that extra beat to say, “Ah! I noticed something” or “Something caught my attention and I have a little spark.” And if it doesn’t seem like much; we ignore it, maybe.

And I think your, your trust and your attentiveness to that moment, attending to it on paper or on, on a smartphone, you are capturing that and letting it go where it leads when you, when you have time to write it through it. I find that excellent advice for any writer.

John Steinbeck kept a journal while he was writing one of his books. I think it was East of Eden that he was writing through as a writing journal. So it would be sort of chronicling how much he got done and wondering about some of the questions and bemoaning himself, his own writing skill and feeling like he’s not, he’s not capable of doing it.

So that’s specifically a writing journal related to that book, but also there are writing journals where, so not just associated with a book project or a work in progress, but also just about your writing life. Are any of your journals, would you say any of them are sort of dedicated to you as writer or is all sort of, you know, linked together?

32:55 Jennifer Dukes Lee It is all sort of linked together. However, for most of my books, I’ve had, you know, kind of like this college bound, you know, this kind of thing. Well, there’s some of my notes that aren’t probably very much related to this, but I keep notes like that for my books.

And then what’s get, what’s here ends up on those cards. So it’s not pretty, it’s not as orderly as what you’re describing, but I do have dedicated notebooks so that I can write down ideas specific to the book as it’s forming. I have one going right now for my next book project and it’s, it’s helping me make some sense of it.

33:38 Ann Kroeker I think finding the type of journaling that works for you seems key. And I just love that you’re kind of all over the place.

Jennifer Dukes Lee I am.

Ann Kroeker And I think that’s just so refreshing because I tend to be more like, “I need to consolidate. I can’t find what I’m looking for. I’m never going to find what’s in a printed,” you know, written down on pages. I would have to look and look and look.

And for me, just to give our audience a different way of thinking about it, I do like to keep it all in one place. So it’s searchable. So I, you know, with one, you know, with a little bit of keyword searching, I can find what I’m looking for and then it’s much faster. It’s all in one place because the scatteredness would make me so crazy.

And again, like I said, I don’t think I would want to have a whole big tote bag with all my journals, but I really, really love that people who are drawn to that could then just grab the one you had some, you showed us, you held up your journals so we could see what they look like. And they each have a different look and feel. And one was so plain as you showed us and one had had some floral designs on it. And one is more like a bound book. And then of course, Stuff I’d Only Tell God is also a bound book that we can move through writing directly on the pages. And so anyway, I just love this variety, I guess. I just like giving people options that there isn’t one right way to do this.

35:01 Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah. It surprises me, given my personality type that I actually do like this because I tend to be pretty like orderly in life. But in a way for me, this has order because each one has its purpose.

One is for praying for people, one is for praying for my kids, one is for gratitude. So I know if I’m in the prayer journals, I don’t really use for my books, I don’t suppose. But yeah, I kind of just know where the thing is. I will have to flip around to find things for sure.

Ann Kroeker It’s like if we had boxes or tubs that were labeled and this is where the Christmas supplies are and this is where packing material is, we would be opening the box to get what we need. It seems like that’s how you’re treating these different journals with different purposes.

Jennifer Dukes Lee That’s right.

Ann Kroeker Is there anything we haven’t covered today that you would want to share with a bunch of writers who are really thinking now, right now about journaling, that intersection of journaling and writing?

Journaling is a way to [build your author platform] with confidence and with joy.

36:01 Jennifer Dukes Lee I want to emphasize again how, I mean, if you’re a writer, you know the P word “platform,” right? I mean, if you want to get published by a traditional publisher, even if you aren’t wanting to get published by a traditional publisher, you need to grow your platform so people can find you and find out about your book, right?

Journaling is a way to do that with confidence and with joy.

You can look back on something you’ve written and see a nugget in there and you know you don’t have to share it word for word. You could leave out some of the hard details, but maybe just going one step further than you feel comfortable with, I think that you will see fruit with it too and that’ll give you more confidence and that will bring you more joy in the process of the social media piece of writing.

Social media for us is writing. It is such a gift, such an opportunity!

I hear some, I mean, probably 90% of the writers I know, say, “I don’t like social media because I don’t like selling myself. I don’t like it,” and I’m like, “Social media for us is writing. It is such a gift, such an opportunity!”

We don’t have to wait two years to get to make an impact with our words. We have an opportunity to do it every single day on socials and to make a difference like right away.

It’s a great place to practice your craft. It’s a great place to build, at the same time, build an audience.

It’s a great place to impact other people’s lives.

So I just encourage you to view social media that way as kind of an online journal that you’re letting people read in a way that you feel comfortable with and maybe even a little uncomfortable with, but just to approach it that way and to see what happens.

I just encourage you to view social media that way as kind of an online journal that you’re letting people read.

37:44 Ann Kroeker I 100% agree with all of that. It’s a way to distinguish ourselves from others who might be in a similar sort of space as what we are in.

When we tell our stories, they’re our stories and nobody else can tell those stories. Nobody else can reveal those pieces of ourselves.

And it’s also another sort of pushback to what AI is producing. They can’t produce our stories. They might be able to organize things nicely and give us suggestions for how to present content, but it can’t tell our stories.

And that comes from places like Stuff I’d Only Tell God.

And I guess I have one more thing came to mind before we close this out. When we’re telling our stories—and you touched on this a little bit, but I want to go just a step beyond with—when we share other people who are in our stories publicly, we have that frequent fear that memoirists face.

If somebody else is in my story—and almost all the time somebody else is in the story—how do we protect ourselves and not protect them? Because what if someone shouldn’t be protected, right?

How do we deal with that tricky issue and if we’re worried about any kind of negative impact for those relationships for the living or the dead … but mostly the living?

Be as transparent as you can with people before you put it out into the world.

39:08 Jennifer Dukes Lee Yeah. So first of all, there are the big picture legal issues you have to think about, right?

I would not just throw some stuff out on social media. Put it in your manuscript and then have your publisher do a legal review on it. I do that all the time with my authors if something seems a little bit touchy.

And so then if you really feel the story is needed, you will either need to A, get their permission or B, get corroboration for it and you may need to revise the content.

Now that’s a more of a negative piece, right? But I just had an author last week turned in their first manuscript and they had a story that was very kind toward the other people, but it involved the husband having gone through an injury of some sort that was debilitating in his life. And I said, “This is a great story. It’s a great example, but you’re going to need to have them sign a waiver of permission.” Right?

And so I think that the legal thing is a huge factor.

And then second, you have to ask, “Is this worth it? It’ll serve the story, but is it worth it?” Count the cost. Think about what you might lose and only you can decide if it’s worth it.

If it’s a life story and it involves things that your mom did when you were little that left you feeling alone and abandoned, you’re going to have to think through. Is it worth it? You’re going to have to think through, “Will this possibly bring me closer to Mom? If I share this with her before publication and say, ‘Mom, you know, I know we’ve patched things up now, but I’m going to share this story from my childhood just all along the way.'” Is it worth it?

And just be as transparent as you can with people before you put it out into the world.

I don’t tend to write stories about even my husband or my kids without saying, “Hey, this, do you mind if I share this situation?”

41:04 Ann Kroeker This would count also for social media posts, blog posts as well?

41:08 Jennifer Dukes Lee Yes, absolutely. And then you don’t have, unless you’re a lawyer or have one, you don’t have the benefit of those harder stories. So you just have to be a little bit more careful.

But I don’t tend to write stories about even my husband or my kids without saying, “Hey, this, do you mind if I share this situation?”

Anna has been — our younger daughter has been pretty public about her battle with depression and anxiety. And in fact, we went to Indiana together where she spoke at a conference with me and shared the stage with me. So she’s been very open about her battle with depression.

Even so, anytime I talk about it in anything, I have a read it first, or I read it to her first, or I’m not going to publish it. Scott, the same way, you know, I’m like, “Hey, honey, I’m going to put a post up about our anniversary. Is that okay?” It’s glowing. It’s wonderful. And he says yes, and he’s supportive of my work.

But for me, that’s really important to keep other people in the loop.

Ann Kroeker Do you have them sign a release?

Jennifer Dukes Lee No. It’s worked for me so far, though. I’ve been doing this again since 2009 and I haven’t gotten in trouble yet. Cross our fingers that it doesn’t happen like, today!

42:30 Ann Kroeker That’s great. Well, your training in those early years as a reporter? You understand maybe more how to navigate that.

But it seems like what you do most is you share from really your own … it’s more about you and your struggles and your questions and the things that you’re wondering about. And I think that comes through loud and clear on all of your social media and your blog posts, all that content.

And speaking of which, now that we’ve had this great conversation, I’m sure that people who are tuning in are dying to know how to get to know you better. So how can people, what’s the best way for people to connect with you?

43:04 Jennifer Dukes Lee I’m on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, @JenniferDukesLee. And I’m also on Instagram at @StuffIdOnlyTellGod — which has been kind of fun. We’re just going through the journal together and just journaling tips, all those kinds of things.

And my website is Jennifer Dukes Lee (jenniferdukeslee.com) as well.

Ann Kroeker Fantastic. Jennifer, thanks for your time today, for giving so much of your life to us, in the book, but also today as we’ve interacted.

I think you’ve probably given people a lot to think about and a lot to write about.

Jennifer Dukes Lee Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

Ann Kroeker Well, I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did. You can find all the links and all the information you need related to this episode at annkroeker.com/JDLStuff.

And I’m Ann Kroeker, cheering you on as your writing coach. Everywhere where you may meet, at my website, on this show, or even in person, I’m always looking for ideas to share with you that will help you achieve your goals and have fun by being more curious, creative, and productive. Thank you for being here.

During the early years of parenthood, I wasted a lot of time feeling sorry for myself.

Why can’t I have my own dedicated writing space? Why can’t I have blocks of uninterrupted time?

The overwhelming demands of being a stay-at-home mom almost shut down my creativity. In time, thank heavens, I stopped griping and started looking for solutions.

My idea? Instead of waiting for the perfect conditions, I snatched time.

No Time to Write? Snatch Every Opportunity

I wrote when the kids were napping.

I wrote late at night.

I wrote when they were engrossed in a movie.

I squeezed writing into the tiny openings in my days.

Sometimes I only had five minutes, but I wrote.

By making the most of a few free moments here and there, I kept my writing identity alive.

Contain the Creativity

This spontaneous approach made for a messy writing life, however.

I left a trail of pens throughout the house. I scratched fleeting phrases onto the backs of envelopes. I scribbled a line of poetry onto a Wendy’s receipt and shoved it into our minivan’s cup holders.

If I could go back, I would organize my writing ideas in one central container. I needed a master notebook for all those scraps, or a notes app on my phone to tap out those ideas.

That would have been smart. I have no idea where that Wendy’s receipt ended up, so that lyrical line is lost forever.

Please learn from my mistake and find an official container for your work.

Creative Container Ideas

How you corral and contain your ideas is totally up to you—there’s no single approach for every writer. I recommend you decide on something you can carry with you all the time.

For example, a simple manila envelope you stuff into an oversized bag that goes with you everywhere could contain all your scraps of paper if you scribble on whatever’s nearby. An accordion file or a 3-ring binder with folders and dividers snapped into it are more organized versions of that.

If you’re more suited to digital options, you can use any number of apps for iOs or Android. For example, in this interview, Bryan Collins of Become a Writer Today talks about how he uses Day One, a journaling app, for all of his writing notes, as well. 

Seize Tiny Moments

Despite the mess, I realized a way forward in the midst of motherhood with no time to write: I seized tiny moments.

I learned that a single sentence or well-crafted phrase composed in five minutes could lay the foundation for a future manuscript.

As a result, I made solid progress on project after project. I built a respectable portfolio that led to a respectable freelance writing career.

Time and opportunities opened up as my kids grew more independent. I wrote books, joined writing communities, worked as an editor, and, as you know, established a coaching business.

All of that was possible because I made the most of five minutes here and five minutes there.

That approach helped my “writing self” survive those early childrearing years and, in 2014, four years of extreme eldercare chaos. Thankfully, expectations have eased up, and my current life stage permits me blocks of time to write, but you know what? I still try to seize every opportunity.

To this day, I write during those tiny moments that free up—it keeps me on track toward achieving my writing goals.

If you don’t already, I hope you try it yourself next time you feel you have no time to write:

Write whenever and wherever you can…for as long as you can.

Enough Stolen Sentences and a Book Is Born

​In her book The Right to Write, Julia Cameron says:

The ‘if-I-had-time’ lie is a convenient way to ignore the fact that novels require being written and that writing happens a sentence at a time. Sentences can happen in a moment. Enough stolen moments, enough stolen sentences, and a novel is born–without the luxury of time…Yes, it is daunting to think of finding time to write an entire novel, but it is not so daunting to think of finding time to write a paragraph, even a sentence. And paragraphs, made of sentences, are what novels are really made of. (Cameron)

Next time you have 5 minutes free, try one of these writing tasks…

5-Minute Tasks for Nonfiction Writers

If you write nonfiction as an author, essayist, blogger, or writer of micro content on social media, here are a few five-minute tasks to tackle (these are drawn from a longer list available at annkroeker.com/5minutewriter).

• brainstorm key points or subtopics for upcoming project
• create a mind-map or outline for a blog post, article, or chapter
• edit and polish a paragraph for clarity
• generate ideas for examples, anecdotes, or case studies to illustrate your points
• capture sensory details in phrases to add to a narrative
• review and revise your thesis statement or main argument
• proofread a section for spelling and grammar errors

5-Minute Tasks for Fiction Writers

If you write fiction as a novelist or you’re a short story writer (or both), here are a few five-minute tasks to tackle (these are drawn from a longer list available at annkroeker.com/5minutewriter).

• create a brief character sketch for a new or existing character
• jot down a vivid description of a setting or location
• write a snippet of dialogue between two characters
• create a mini storyboard or visualization of a crucial scene
• revise a challenging scene from a different POV
• describe the physical appearance or mannerisms of a character
• tighten a section of your project using an editing checklist

No matter what complicates your schedule—whether you have a full-time job or you’re a full-time caregiver—write what you can, when you can.

Because the conditions are never perfect. And the words will come, even five minutes at a time.

Get Your 5 Minute Writer Freebie

Grab this fillable workbook for ideas to make the most out of every writing opportunity. You’ll get:

• Lists of tiny tasks you can tackle when five minutes open up (so you can make progress—for both fiction and nonfiction writers!)
• Ideas for where to contain your research, ideas, and drafts
• Real-life proof from your writing coach that your writing life can expand in tiny openings

Footnote:

Cameron, Julia. The Right to Write: An Invitation and Initiation into the Writing Life. Jeremy P. Tarcher/Putnam, 1999.

Nearly everyone who writes personal stories in any form has agonized over how much to share.

Will writing about an issue from childhood break Mom’s heart?

Should I change the name of a high school teacher? The next-door neighbor? The dog? The children?

Are the hyacinths blooming by the mailbox worth mentioning?

We write.

We worry.

Is this naval gazing or vulnerability?

Will people feel I’m airing the dirty laundry or sharing my own struggles so others might find healing?

Stories Bring YOU into Your Writing

But…stories!

Goodness, stories set your projects apart from all other essays, articles, and books, because only you had that encounter, that experience, that struggle, that transformation.

When you make a claim and support it with your own life story, no one else could have written that piece.

Stories create connection between reader and writer.

Stories convey universal truths through specific situations.

You don’t have to share your darkest eras or most embarrassing moments to offer transformative stories to readers.

You don’t have to bare all to be a generous and effective storyteller.

You get to choose what to share with the public on a blog or in an article…and you get to choose what will live only in a journal, shoved under your mattress.

Our Three Lives

A few years ago, I found a quote from author Gabriel García Márquez, suggesting we have three lives:

• A Public life
• A Private life
• A Secret life

A Newsweek article writes:

About [Márquez’s] own romantic passions, though, the author remained tight-lipped. He told his biographer Gerald Martin “with the expression on his face of an undertaker determinedly closing a coffin lid back down, that ‘everyone has three lives: a public life, a private life and a secret life’.” When Martin asked if Márquez might give him access into the latter, he replied: “No, never.”¹

​Kenneth Samples at Reasons to Believe describes these three lives:

1. A Public Life: This is the side of themselves that people present at work, church, civic arenas, and other public contexts. This is how people are generally seen in their daily life outside the home.
2. A Private Life: This is the side of life that people share with family and close friends. Only a person’s inner circle…gets to see this “version.”
3. A Secret Life: This is the side of life known only to an individual. In can include one’s private thoughts and secret actions. People may be aware of their secret life, but that is not always the case. The reality of the secret life may be unknown even to the individual person himself for all of us have blind spots that stand in the way of true self-realization²

As writers, we are in control. Like Márquez, we get to choose the stories that will be part of the essay, the memoir, the interview—the public self.

And we get to choose the stories that will never be told—that will remain part of our secret life.

Isn’t that freeing? You get to write, and you get to choose.

My Stories — Our Stories

My primary newsletter is my coaching newsletter. It’s how I show up in your inbox to support your writing goals and encourage you on your writing journey. I share as much as possible to help you make progress.

You may have noticed I share very few personal stories. I guess I default to keeping a lot of my life out of the public eye.

To explore that, I decided to launch a side project on Substack that I’m calling Story Hatchery.

The premise?

We can outwit AI and learn more about ourselves by capturing and crafting our stories. We need a safe place to do that, a haven for storytelling.

That’s Story Hatchery.

I’ll be writing my own stories, using prompts I’ll share with you.

You’ll get a peek at my writing process, including drafts leading up to a final version.

I’ll pass along storytelling wisdom from people who inspire me.

Follow Story Hatchery to enjoy a more personal side of Ann Kroeker as we practice finding and writing our stories.

I hope I don’t overshare, but at least I have a way to decide.

Resources:

• Subscribe to Story Hatchery
• Subscribe to my Writing Coach newsletter HERE or using the form below
• Read Write to Discover: Start with Yourself
• Read What Do I Write Next: Enjoy Your Vein of Gold
• Read Can You Write Your Story Before It’s Become a Story?

Footnotes:

1. Shakespeare, Nicholas. “The Secret Muse of Gabriel García Márquez.” Newsweek, Newsweek, 11 July 2014, www.newsweek.com/2014/07/18/secret-muse-gabriel-garcia-marquez-260433.html. Accessed 31 May 2023.
2. ‌Samples, Kenneth. “Does Everyone Have Three Lives?” Reasons to Believe, 28 Apr. 2020, reasons.org/explore/blogs/reflections/does-everyone-have-three-lives. Accessed 31 May 2023.

As writers, we spend countless hours crafting and refining our work to perfection. We labor over word choices, sentence structure, and the perfect flow.

Despite our best efforts—even after a pass through Grammarly—typos slip through. We tend to spot them in other people’s projects, even if we miss them in our own.

How do you react when you spot a typo in someone else’s writing? Do you assume they’re unprofessional and lose faith in them?

Or do you extend grace and understand that mistakes happen?

Automatic Unsubscribe

One time I spoke with a professional in the creative space who said if she sees a typo, it’s an automatic unsubscribe.

“Seriously?” I exclaimed. “You don’t even give them three strikes?”

“No, that’s it. I unsubscribe on the spot.”

I strive toward excellence and aim for perfect prose, but if I’m in a hurry or make a last-minute change, I miss details. I’m sure you’ve noticed them in blog posts and emails.

“Well,” I told her, “I suppose you aren’t on my list, because I send out notes with errors sometimes.”

She shrugged. That’s her rule and she stands by it.

Part of me respected the high standard she set.

The other part of me craved grace for my shortcomings.

Typos Are Human

As I said, even the most meticulous writers miss typos from time to time. In my rush to click “publish,” I’ll skip a step in the writing and editing process.

For example, I try to allow time to run my emails and blog posts through Grammarly. Then I look at the clock and realize I’m out of time, and I trust my eye to catch any issues.

Sure enough: those are the days a typo slips through.

As a writer striving to produce polished writing, I need to establish a process that slows me down long enough to follow through.

As a reader spotting typos in other people’s work, I hope to offer the same grace I long for from others who spot my mistakes.

One of my online friends is a proofreader, and her discerning eye caught errors on my Everything page. Instead of instantly unsubscribing and unfollowing me, she reached out with a gentle tone and kindly listed each one—it was a gift! She understood that typos are human. Better yet, she offered her expertise to make my work stronger.

Consider the Context

When it comes to typos, context matters. Typos in a casual email or social media post aren’t as concerning as typos in a published article or book.

And please don’t judge my writing ability when we’re texting. Between autocorrect and fat fingers, my messages are a mess!

One Last Look

Writing to family and friends is one thing; writing for the public is another. We can take steps to catch embarrassing blips before they’re released to the world wide web.

Proofreading is crucial to the writing process and ensures polished work.

The first place to notice issues is when you’re writing. Microsoft Word, Apple Pages, and Google Docs all track grammar and spelling issues with squiggly lines.

After revisiting what they’ve marked and making any changes, you can run your final draft through a program like:

• Grammarly
• ProWritingAid
• Hemingwayapp.com

Then read it aloud. Vocalizing each word will catch problems that our mind skips over when reading silently.

For high-stakes projects—queries, pitches, book proposals, manuscripts—consider hiring a human editor and proofreader.

Practice Gracious Typo Spotting

Not every project warrants that much attention. But relying on self-editing means some of our work will miss a letter, word, or phrase. We’ll use “it’s” where we should have used “its” or “your” instead of “you’re.”

Unless you’re asked to edit or proofread someone’s work, overlook their misspellings or misplaced modifiers. Feel pleased you recognized the error—after all, it means you’re developing an editor’s eye and ear. But when we approach typos with grace, we connect with other writers as human beings.

Maybe—maybe—if we know the person well, we can mention that we saw a minor error and want their work to shine. That way, they know we value the person behind the writing, not just the words on the page.

That’s how I felt when my online friend reached out. The way she emailed me, I could tell she wasn’t scolding or shaming me—she was supporting me.

We can offer ourselves grace, as well, when we realize we sent out our writing with a glaring mistake. Don’t beat yourself up or see yourself as a failure.

You’re an active writer, daring to share your work with the world.

The only way to avoid public typos altogether is to never click “publish.”

Let’s strive for clean, quality prose while extending grace to others—and ourselves—when an error slips through.

Instead of seeing it as a black mark on their record, view it as a reminder that a real person sits on the other side of the screen. Yes, that fallible writer is a real human being, writing her heart out.

Resources:

• Tips on Self-Editing from The Artful Edit
• The Paralysis of Perfectionism
• How Good Does My Writing Need to Be Online?
• Grammar Matters: Why Concern Ourselves with Commas?

Years ago, one of my clients updated me on her publishing journey. She turned in her manuscript on deadline, so that was a huge relief.

Then her editor asked for one last piece she’d put off.

“Ann, it took me two full weeks to track down everything for my endnotes. Two weeks!”

This first-time author knew the editor would ask for endnotes, but she had not kept track of them as she wrote.

Putting Off the Inevitable

When words were flowing—forming chapters, shaping ideas—she didn’t want to lose momentum fiddling around with citations. So she decided to focus solely on the writing, trusting those endnotes would be easy to put together later.

After all, most of the books she mentioned in her text were stacked next to her, ready to access after submitting her manuscript. She could find the direct quotes online again in a few clicks, right?

“Please, Ann,” she said, “I’m begging you to tell all your clients to document their sources along the way. Waiting until the end was a nightmare.”

Save Time & Headaches

I’ve tried to convince the authors I coach to do just that: document all sources along the way.

More specifically, I recommend they create a citation at the moment they mention it in their draft. Or at the latest, create it before stepping away from that writing session. You think you’ll come back to it the next morning, but it’s easy to push it off until later…and later…and later.

Then your editor calls and you have to pull them together to submit a few days later.

Citations Are a Pain

It’s a pain to track these bits of information.

Author Joanna Russ writes, “I once asked a young dissertation writer whether her suddenly grayed hair was due to ill-health or personal tragedy; she answered It was the footnotes” (Russ, 137).

It’s tempting for authors to think of citations as a necessary evil, aging us, plaguing us.

Citations Are a Gift

But in reality they’re a gift to our readers. They can dig deeper into the topic we introduce by visiting the websites, books, and podcasts we mention.

Citations are also a gift to us.

Heaven knows we want to avoid accusations of plagiarism, adhere to copyright laws, and make good faith efforts to track down the origin of a quote or statistic.

I’m not a lawyer and can’t give legal advice, but giving credit where credit is due is a step in the right direction.

A good start is to include attribution for:

• direct quotes
• paraphrased quotes
• summarized ideas & info that aren’t common knowledge
• paraphrased ideas & info that aren’t common knowledge
• any idea, statistic, framework, or content you didn’t develop yourself

Create citations for any source: physical books, Kindle books, websites, interviews, podcasts, seminars, conferences, and more.

In doing so, you demonstrate you’re joining—even contributing to—the broader conversation on this topic.

Is Blog Post and Social Media Citation Overkill?

You may associate footnotes and endnotes with books and scholarly writing, but I hope you’ll join me in citing sources in your digital writing, as well: in blog posts, articles—even social media posts.

In years past, bloggers have generally taken a simpler approach, relying on linked text to credit sources. This minimized reader disruption and saved time.

Parenthetical citation or cumbersome in-text mentions with signal text slow the flow. You can see an example where I wrote “Author Joanna Russ writes…”

That phrasing signaled a source. Did it slow you down? Did it bother you?

Bloggers have generally viewed that style as clunky. Footnoting blog posts seemed over the top.

Vowing to Start Footnoting

I myself used to think it was over the top. In the early days of blogging no one else was adding footnotes, so I didn’t bother.

Until 2012, when I taught high school students a session about plagiarism. The more I prepared for the session, the more I realized I wasn’t following citation best practices in my own writing.

I wrote about it on my blog, vowing to do better.

In the comments of that post, readers chimed in with a wide range of reactions. Some applauded footnoting even in blog posts (especially teachers).

Others believed it would slow them down too much—they might not publish as often.

Still others saw my reasoning but felt footnotes or inline citations would disrupt the reader’s experience. In their opinion, the ease of hyperlinking text sufficed.

They leaned on leaving footnoting to the academics. Besides, newspapers and magazines follow AP Style, which doesn’t require footnotes. Why should a blogger bother with it?

When I started adding footnotes, the inconvenience did slow me down, just as those bloggers predicted. I regretted my vow. I backslid and returned to hyperlinking text to online sources.

Broken Links, Lost “Citations”

A recently installed plugin has been alerting me to broken links on my website, and I’m realizing links alone aren’t enough for proper attribution.

Over time, websites delete pages or close down altogether. New companies buy expired domains and publish unrelated content. Those links lead to a 404 page.

If I’d footnoted those articles, I could have preserved the source and demonstrated due diligence even if the actual link eventually turned into a dead end.

Now I’m returning to old articles and blog posts, seeing sentences like, “As I found in this article and this blog post, families are slowing down and…” The words “this” link out to articles that were live at the time of the writing but are unavailable today.

Thankfully the Internet Wayback Machine helps me locate the original sources to figure out what it said. From that information I can generate an alternative link and create a footnote.

But what a hassle!

I feel like my client who lost two weeks of her life tracking down endnotes for her book.

I feel like the suddenly grayed dissertation writer who told Joanna Russ It was the footnotes.

If only I had created citations as I published those pieces, I would have saved myself so much time and trouble.

And I would have given readers who stumble on the piece a decade later easy ways to dig into the topic.

Citations = Credibility

When I see others cite their sources, I view them as more credible because they reveal the writers on whose shoulders they stand.

Readers see us as more credible and ethical, too, when we clearly point to our sources.

While inconsistent, I’m trying to improve. By including my sources, my readers can trace back to the writers on whose shoulders I stand.

Whether you’re an author drafting your manuscript or a blogger writing weekly posts, I hope you’ll consider citing sources as a new best practice.

Don’t worry about doing it perfectly or updating years of existing posts. Just start with your next post and use apps that generate citations with the click of a button.

When you build it into your workflow, you’ll see it’s not such a hassle…and I hope you’ll find, in time, that it’s worth the effort.

How to Start Citing Sources

Not used to documenting sources and creating citations? You may wonder thing like:

What’s “fair use”?

What’s “common knowledge”?

How do I know when an idea is emerging from personal knowledge after years of living, reading, and learning, and when the idea should be credited to someone else?

What’s the difference between inline, in-text, and parenthetical citations?

When do I footnote and when do I create endnotes—and do I need one of those Works Cited pages I created in high school English class?

Do I use MLA, APA, or Chicago Manual of Style formatting?

Learn a little bit each time you write. In time, you’ll feel more knowledgeable and confident.

And you can simplify the process using citation tools. Test some of these:

• EasyBib
• Chegg Citation Generator
• Chegg Citation Machine (I’m not sure why they have two—test them to see which works best!)
• built-in citation features in Microsoft Word
• built-in citation features in Google Docs
• Chrome extensions like MyBib

​Cite sources to serve your readers today—and yourself in the future.

If you plan to write a nonfiction book, you’ll probably search your blog posts and maybe even Instagram captions for stories, quotes, and ideas to include in that book.

Trust me, you’ll be so grateful for those footnotes!

Footnote

Russ, Joanna. How to Suppress Women’s Writing. Univ. of Texas Press, 2005. (137)

Consider a lowly stick, memorialized by my friend:

Little Y Stick
Fragile, knobby crossroads in my fingers
Bring me eyes to see how God is in my midst.¹

​Jennifer Dukes Lee penned that poem after we chatted about a prompt found in poemcrazy, by Susan Goldsmith Wooldridge.

Poemcrazy’s Prompt

In Chapter 31, Susan instructs us to find something in nature that attracts our attention. Maybe the object has a quality that we’re attracted to, or maybe it’s just speaking to us in some way.²

Jennifer pondered the little Y stick and used Susan’s prompt to craft that small poem.

I decided to try Susan’s prompt myself.

Following Susan’s instructions, I found objects in the yard that attracted my attention. One was a pinecone.

1. Name it

First, we name it. Name it by its actual name, like a pine cone, or make up a name, like “tree cigar.”

Susan says you could call a mushroom “white sticky,” for example, or “plump cloud.” Or you could use its actual name, “mushroom.”³

2. Describe it

Next, describe some of its qualities using descriptive language or by comparing it with something else.

3. “Bring me your…”

Finally, you have a line that starts, “Bring me your…” and finish with a quality that this item has.⁴

As with any creative venture or poem, you get to make it your own. You can leave off the “bring me” part or expand on its name or its description.

Here’s an example in Susan’s book from a seventh grader:

Dead rose,
crinkly as paper,
bring me love.⁵

This exercise taps attentiveness and imagination to make connections and explore our yearnings.

Sample Poems

Let’s look at Susan’s example using a mushroom:

Honey mushroom
floating in grass like a plump cloud,
bring me your love of dark places.⁶

After spending time with the object, the final template is:

• Name (real or made up)
• “You look like…” (feel free to drop “you look like” and creatively describe it)
• “Bring me…” or “Bring me your…”

Now that you know the template, look at Jennifer’s again:

Little Y Stick
Fragile, knobby crossroads in my fingers
Bring me eyes to see how God is in my midst.

Let’s Try the Prompt

In my yard, we have to deal with the seeds of two Sweetgum trees—long-stemmed spiky orbs.

Approximately five million of these “Sweetgum balls,” as we call them, coat our front yard year round. You could spend hours filling three giant trash bins only to look up and see a thousand more dangling from the branches above, poised to drop during the next thunderstorm that blows through.

Despite the trouble they cause me, I spent time with one of them, staying open to what it might offer me:

Spiky orb, one of hundreds, maybe thousands,
fragile, persistent, overwhelming:
bring me your abundance.

We also deal with an outrageous number of pinecones that fall from two fir trees.

I found a pinecone that was still closed, which happens when it’s cold outside. As the temperature heats up, the pinecone opens to release its seeds.

Smooth pine cone, waiting to warm, waiting to share yourself—
hatches shut tight against the cold,
protecting yourself, soon to unlatch—
bring me your care and caution,
knowing the time to stay guarded and safe,
and knowing the time to open oneself,
to be fully seen.

Try this prompt yourself and share your poem with me.

I can’t wait to read what you come up with.

FREE Email Course

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Footnotes:

1. Dukes Lee, Jennifer. Prayer labyrinth story with a Y stick image and poem. Instagram, 17 Mar. 2023. https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp5KAwgLAR-/. Accessed 1 Apr 2023.
2. Wooldridge, Susan. Poemcrazy: Freeing Your Life with Words. Three Rivers Press, 1997. (113)
3. ibid (111)
4. ibid (109)
5. ibid
6. ibid (112)

Gain inspiration from the journey of a first-time author who transformed her dream of writing into a reality by taking bold action. Merideth Hite Estevez’s success story involved launching a captivating podcast and partnering with a coach (yep, that’s me!) to develop a winning strategy.

Her talent and tenacity helped her build a robust platform, create a winning book proposal, secure an agent, and land a publishing deal in just a few years. Although she felt like it took an eternity, that’s fast.

Follow her story and be inspired to pursue your own writing dreams with confidence!

Resources

• Here’s the program Merideth mentions in the video (we worked together to complete her proposal and set her up for success): https://annkroeker.com/yourcompellingbookproposal/
• Merideth’s website: artistsforjoy.org
• Merideth on Instagram: @artistsforjoy
• Merideth’s free resource, 3 Ways to Love Your Inner Artist
• Merideth’s Creative Clusters using The Artist’s Way

Transcript

(Transcripts are reviewed and lightly edited.)

Ann Kroeker

I’m Ann Kroeker, Writing Coach. If you’re tuning in for the first time, welcome. If you’re a regular, welcome back. I’m sharing my best skills and strategies to help writers improve craft, pursue publishing, and achieve their writing goals. On today’s show, you’re going to get a glimpse of a first time author’s journey from idea to a signed contract with a publisher.

Even better, she’s a creative coach herself, so it’s like you’re getting two coaches for one.

You’re going to love meeting Dr. Merideth Hite Estevez.

Merideth Hite Estevez

Dr. Merideth Hite Estevez is a spiritual space-maker for artists as an oboist, writer, coach, and educator. Her podcast Artists for Joy was an Award of Excellence Winner in the 2022 Communicator Awards and is in the top 2% of podcasts worldwide.

She has served thousands of artists in communal creative recovery with her popular support groups around Julia Cameron’s The Artist’s Way and serves artists of all disciplines through her writings, workshops, and one-to-one coaching services. She holds degrees in oboe from The Juilliard School and Yale University and is a Certified Start with Heart Facilitator through Graydin.

As a trained coach, she runs a thriving business helping creatives of all disciplines looking for a more joyful life. Merideth has performed with top orchestras in the US and abroad, including the MET Opera and PhillyPops and is currently the English hornist/Second Oboe of the Chamber Orchestra of NY. She has served on faculties of numerous universities and schools of music, most recently as Associate Professor of Oboe at University of Delaware.

When she’s not creating or teaching, you’ll find her attempting to speak foreign languages with a southern accent while traveling with her husband Rev. Edwin Estevez, daughter Eva, and son Eli. Her first book, an inspirational guide to the creative life, is forthcoming in 2024.

Merideth, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here.

[00:02:03] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Hi, Ann. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:04] – Ann Kroeker

Now, that’s an impressive bio. I’m amazed at all of the things you juggle, and in the middle of it all, you managed to land a contract to write a book.

And I would love it if you could give people a simple summary of this crazy journey you’ve been on. Can you just summarize it? And then we can go into detail of what that looked like.

[00:02:26.780] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Absolutely. Yeah. It feels like a really, really long journey.

Like many of the people listening to this, I have been writing all my life. My mother was my elementary school librarian. And so writing was something that always was around. I took a lot of creative writing classes in college. But as you heard from my bio, I always had a beeline on being a professional oboist. All my concentration and focus was on music. And so I didn’t really believe that I could be a writer.

I got through college and got married and started having kids and really, especially during the pandemic, felt this new found rumbling that I needed to write. And I really felt like artists needed support, especially in that moment during the pandemic when everything shut down.

I had written a small blog that nobody really read, but I had developed a little bit of a writing routine before 2020. But I remember sometime in April of 2020, I bought a microphone and I started podcasting, and it was really writing for the podcast that began my drive and started to become a reality that I wanted to write a book.

[00:03:36] – Merideth Hite Estevez

And so what I did was realized that I needed a coach and I needed support. I needed somebody to tell me because I felt so equipped in the world of music, but I knew that there was “insider information,” quote unquote,” that I needed to know to get it traditionally published.

And so I found you, thank God.

And I just looked back through my emails and it was February of 2021 that I signed up finally after hesitating at my keyboard for months and months to sign up for coaching and to purchase one of your courses on how to write a non-fiction book proposal.

After that I realized that I needed to focus on having a baby, because a few months later I had my son. And that’s when I was like, “Ann, I need to pause, because I need to have a baby.”

So I had a baby and all during my maternity leave, I was really thinking about the book and the thoughts about what it would be about were just sitting there while I was feeding him and up all night.

Fast forward, a couple more months after maternity leave, I jumped back on the coaching wagon.

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[00:04:39] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I went through your course, your compelling book proposal, which walked me through step by step, exactly what to do.

We worked on the proposal. And that spring I started pitching to literary agents.

And an amazing thing happened. All during that time, I was continuing to produce my weekly podcast. And I had a listener reach out because I finally admitted to my podcast audience that I wanted to write a book, and a couple of weeks later, one of my listeners wrote to me and said, “Hey, my husband works at one of the big five publishers. Would you like some guidance on your book proposal?”

And I was like, “The more guidance, the better.”

So that just goes to show that yes, writing a book proposal and finding the right teammates is really important, but it’s also important to keep writing and to publish something weekly because that person helped me.

I had my book proposal ready, thanks to you. I sent a draft to that guy and he gave me some tips and he gave me some names of some people and it helped open a door or two.

And I found a literary agent that summer, in August of 2022.

[00:05:52] – Merideth Hite Estevez

And then we decided to grow my platform a little more over the summer. And I put a lot of effort toward social media, and then we decided to pitch. The proposal was ready and we decided to pitch in October of 2022.

And then, oh man. Everything slows way down at that point, at least in my opinion, because you send the emails and you’re sitting there waiting for them to tell you yes or no.

And some people said no—many people said no—and a few people said yes. And so my agent and I have been in the process of going through the offers. We had multiple offers, incredibly, and we’ve been going through them. And then by the time this interview goes live, I will have signed the contract and I’ll be crazily writing the first manuscript. So, yeah, that’s it.

[00:06:41] – Ann Kroeker

That’s an incredible timeline. I know you said things slow way down, but what you just described…let’s just go back, you said 2020 was that spark of, “I think I want to write.” And you had the idea for the book, but it sounded like, I just want to get my words out. And that’s when you got going with the blog and then the podcast, right? Am I remembering right? It was in 2020. I mean, that’s really not that long.

[00:07:03] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Well, the blog I started in 2017, but it was like a slow burn. And it literally was like some weeks I would write. In 2020 was when I really started weekly producing something online.

[00:07:16] – Ann Kroeker

Okay, so that’s interesting to me and I think to anybody tuning in: you committed with the dream—would you say it was a dream or a goal at that point in 2020 when you started showing up every week?

[00:07:30] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I think it was a dream, but I knew enough about the publishing industry to know that I needed a lot more of an “audience” to prove that I could sell my book. I knew enough to be dangerous because if you listen to any interviews, they’ll be like, “You need 100,000 followers.” And so it felt like a dream instead of a goal because I was like, “How am I ever going to get there?” And by the way, I’m not there yet.

[00:07:54] – Ann Kroeker

And I think it’s important for people to know that you did all this. You got this. And you got it with not these wild numbers. But you did work at it and grew the numbers.

[00:08:06] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. The growth.

Many people said this throughout the conversations I was having with publishing professionals and with you, that growth—engagement—is more important than the bottom line, adding up all the numbers and showing that you not only have people there, but that there are more people showing up every month, every three months. How much has it grown and how are the people engaging? Are they clicking? Are they purchasing? Are they commenting? Things like that.

That was always something I really enjoyed actually connecting with the people that were there instead of dreaming about the people who might be there.

[00:08:43] – Ann Kroeker

I had a great distinction between those two types of people. Was there anything that you feel like this event, this activity, really helped me turn the corner toward my goal?

[00:08:59.570] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I think that I started using Instagram ads.

I actually heard an interview recently where someone was like, everybody knows that social media is a “pay to play” thing now. And I was like, “Wow, really?”

I have found ads to be really helpful. And some people might consider that buying followers because you are paying. But for me, the way I see it is when I put $6 a day for five days behind a podcast episode that I believe will really serve people and help people, it allows Instagram to put my work in front of the people that will benefit from what I’m writing.

And so it’s not just that I’m paying for people to follow me. I’m paying Instagram to find the people that could benefit from my work and get it in front of them. So they’ll click and then they can engage if it’s right for them. And so that’s how I see it.

And the Instagram ads have been… I’ve gotten better, too, at making… I’ve noticed which ones are making my follower count go up.

The Artist’s Way, which is the book by Julia Cameron, that’s really a huge core of my online community and the community that we’re building online.

[00:10:14] – Merideth Hite Estevez

It is a hugely popular book. And so a lot of people follow the hashtag #theartistsway or Google “Artist’s Way” groups. And so between ads and really using ads to promote The Artist’s Way courses and workshops that I do, that has caused the biggest growth in my platform.

[00:10:33] – Ann Kroeker

And it does connect to your book idea as well?

[00:10:38.070] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Absolutely, yes. They tell you not to put a best seller in your comps on your book proposal. But I think that my work has been so… That book is such a phenomenon. I mean, it really, truly is. And it allows me to… We talk about psychographics. The readers of my book are the people who read The Artist’s Way. I think that doesn’t work with every book, but it’s been useful for me, and we just attract just the right people to participate in the stuff I offer.

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TELL ME MORE!

[00:11:12] – Ann Kroeker

Can you tell us about your book?

[00:11:15] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Sure.

My book is about how to find joy in the creative life, how to debunk the tortured artist stereotype, and to live joyfully and creatively.

I offer a little bit of my story, a little bit of the stories of people that have been in my workshops who have experienced creative recovery.

I got to the end of 12 years of college, like you read in my bio, and I was so burnt out and creatively lost. I had no idea how I was going to go and play music for the rest of my life when I didn’t even enjoy it. And I was “at the top of my game.” I had done everything right as a perfectionist, and that was just it.

I had no skills for how to do the really, truly the spiritual work to recover my creative impulse and to continue creating with joy.

And so the book is the book I needed when I was standing there on the street with my Juilliard diploma in hand. And it’s really a coaching resource for creatives.

[00:12:21] – Ann Kroeker

I can’t wait to read it myself. And I’m sure everybody tuning in today cannot wait to read it as well. And it’s very much in line with your author brand, if you will, using that phrase, because you have a podcast called Artists for Joy.

I mean, it seems like that’s the fire in you. That’s what you want to infuse in others or pass along to others is: we can do this creative work with joy. And I love that, reviving that in people.

[00:12:52] – Merideth Hite Estevez

One thing that I think you said to me that has really resonated deeply was asking the question: How can you pour into people? How can you serve them in your work?

Not how can you sell to them or how can you market to them, but seeing work as outpouring from your deepest passion and deepest desire to make a difference in the world.

And that’s really helped because it has been a lot of, of course, with publishing and music and any art form, there’s going to be ups and downs, right? You’re going to experience failures and rejections, big and small.

When you see it not as the thing that’s going to confirm that you are worthy and valuable and loved, but instead you see it as I have something I know that could help people and I believe would make a difference. And here: I’m going to pour it out.

That’s been a huge shift for me. And I love that line of discussion when you were sharing that with others.

[00:13:49] – Ann Kroeker

So it sounds like you’ve had to really live out the message of your book as you created the book itself. Kinda meta, I guess.

[00:13:55] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Unfortunately, or fortunately, yes. I think you told me once, you’ve seen it happen many times that whenever you’re given a book idea, then you’re called to live that out in your real life. You’re going to be testing your theories.

[00:14:13] – Ann Kroeker

And? How did your theories test out or prove themselves?

[00:14:16] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Of course, they’re working. And this is where when I hear the word “prescriptive nonfiction,” which is the genre that I’m working in, I want to cringe because… And as a coach, I know what’s right for me may not be right for you.

The purpose of coaching would be, “Let’s discover what you need and only you know that.”

And I think that we can sell or share or serve those readers of non-fiction who are truly looking for solidarity, advice, support. And by sharing what’s worked for me, you could find something and translate it to what works for you. And so that’s how I make that right in my mind because otherwise I’m like, it sounds gimmicky. It sounds like an infomercial.

[00:15:04] – Ann Kroeker

I heard another coach say, yes, we call it prescriptive nonfiction in the publishing industry. So if somebody’s hearing that for the first time, that’s what we refer to as any book that is helping people, even if it’s not “prescriptive,” even if it’s not “do this and you’ll have this outcome,” even if it’s not a “four-step plan” or whatever. We still just call it that in the industry.

She renamed it—just for purposes of helping people envision a different way—”transformative nonfiction.” And I feel like that fits more what you’re doing.

And even though the publishing industry might not use that term, I love it internally for a person to just, “Ah, that’s what it is. Yeah, I’m taking it from here to here because that’s the transformation I experienced. I went from here to here.” Or, “That’s what I help others experience like you do as a coach. Take them from here to there.”

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[00:15:54] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I really struggled with that in writing my book proposal. Remember? I don’t know if you remember helping me edit it, but that desire to stay away from gimmicky language and yet the need to sell the book to the publisher in a paragraph.

And I realized, and it was probably you who realized this and you showed it to me, but I’m writing the book for that person, for that person who’s having that exact same conversation in their own mind.

How can I find the balance between marketability and creativity?

Does one have to be “king” in every situation?

I think in the book proposal, it says this book is for the artist or the writer who is wondering where their voice is in all the marketspeak and the voice who feels squelched by marketspeak.

I was like, “Yes, Ann, thank you.”

That’s why you have a coach, my friends, because they will help you translate yourself for the market.

[00:16:55] – Ann Kroeker

Well, we need language to talk about our ideas so that other people can talk about our ideas.

And it starts with that, well, for you, for every writer who’s moving toward traditional publishing—but actually I would argue toward self-publishing as well—you need a way to talk about it.

We need a way to articulate it in a way that sticks. And people go, “Yeah…”

And then for the traditional path, you need to be able to give that language to an agent so the agent can use that language to “sell it,” so to speak, well, literally, yes, to the acquisition editor.

Then the acquisition or acquisitions—the AE—can then take that language and sell it to their team and then onward to the pub board.

And if you can get that language right in a way that feels right, and that’s where you are struggling, can I get language and the language is basically what resonates with the reader.

In the end, it all plays out for the reader, if you can put language around it so they can say, “That’s it. That’s what I want. That’s what I need. That’s what I’ve been looking for for so long.”

[00:17:57] – Ann Kroeker

And now they can talk about it in groups of writers or with their writing buddy or with their group of musicians they practice with or whatever—I know you don’t work exclusively with writers.

And so, yes, I think that it is worth it to do that hard work to land on the language that feels right and good because in the end, you’re giving exactly what the reader needs and wants, whether they realize it or not, which is a way to talk about their situation so they can experience transformation.

[00:18:25] – Merideth Hite Estevez

That was a lot harder than writing the whole book. I mean, it really was. The marketing and promotional materials in the book proposal were the hardest part for me. And the back cover copy and the little things that need to be short and quippy and still feel like they’re me.

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[00:18:42] – Ann Kroeker

Yeah. And I think what you said about—actually, it comes back to that Instagram ad that you were talking about. You said earlier that it sounds like you’re paying for followers, but you’re not.

You’re merely presenting an opportunity to them. You’re paying to have it presented to them. They still get to make that decision.

And all that language you just described, it’s the same thing:

“I’m presenting you with an opportunity to walk through this book to experience transformation. And here’s what it would look like if you were to buy this book and read it. Here’s what it would feel like to move from chapter one to chapter whatever your last chapter is and get at the end and feel like, ‘Now I know that this…”

It sounded like they might come at it feeling like, “I’m living that tortured artist life, but I don’t want to live that way. I’ve lost my joy and I want something different.”

And so that language is not sales tricks or gimmicks at all. You’re merely saying, “Look, if this is where you’re at, I’ve been there. And if this is where you want to be, here’s where you could be in a path to that, that’s contained in this book. And I offer it to you as a gift.”

[00:19:48] – Ann Kroeker

You didn’t use that language, but that’s the goal of it.

I think the best marketing is honest marketing.

But then doing the hard work as writers of finding the right words, and you did that.

You did that hard work. And then when you do that upfront, it becomes easier to write the whole book, too, even though I think you did it in the other order, maybe writing the book and then finding the language. But either way, it’s bringing clarity.

[00:20:12] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Absolutely. And I would think that the whole process of doing, I just want to reiterate that from beginning to end, it was the weekly podcasting where I found what I wanted to actually talk about.

So if you’re waiting to start a podcast or to start a blog or to start a Substack or whatever it is, if you’re waiting because you don’t know what you want to talk about yet, don’t discount the learning that will occur while you’re doing it.

And all the great, important information that you will gain about who’s reading and who it resonates with and what it resonates and what specifically, what’s thread of what goes to where and helps people in this way or that.

If I could go back, I would say that to myself: “You’re going to learn so much. And some of it is going to be scary and some of it is going to be embarrassing. But all in all, it’s going to account for exactly you’re going to find your people by doing the work.”

And that has been so fun. It truly has been fun and joyful.

[00:21:14] – Ann Kroeker

I love that. You find your people, you also articulate your ideas, which is what you said, and you find your ideas.

In the process of doing those two things, showing up, finding your people, testing your ideas, you’re basically validating the whole thing as you go.

In some cases, maybe in a way, you’re building it as you go. “I think in the book, I might want to talk about this. Maybe I’ll bring that up in tiny form and talk about it for 10 minutes on the podcast and see how people respond.”

There’s a validation that happens at the same time. But you didn’t maybe consciously go into it that you’re like, “I want to talk to writers or artists,” right?

[00:21:51] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Right. Yeah. And with the book proposal, too, I was like, okay, I don’t know what I’m doing. But by the end of finishing the proposal and having you walk me through and edit it together, I realized that I had basically written the book already. I mean, it truly I had.

And the book proposal provided so much clarity around all of it. And none of the work in that is wasted, even though that’s not going to be published anywhere. That work in that book proposal was so integral in the whole project.

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[00:22:24] – Ann Kroeker

Exactly. It’s the plan that you’re going to follow and what you’re promising to the publishing house that you’re partnering with.

“This is the plan I am going to follow from beginning to end. Here’s what’s going to be in it. Here’s how I’m going to promote it. Here’s what I’m going to do before and here’s what I’ll do during and after the book’s release.”

And so it’s your plan. But then within that is the content, which is that framework, whether you call it a four-part framework or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s just like that. This is what’s going in the book.

And yeah, if you do all that hard work, then yes, it’s much easier to write the book because you have something to follow that framework to follow for your book. And it’s a lot of work up front.

How long would you compare the time that it took to build out those pieces? You said you didn’t really love marketing plan and all that, versus the book’s framework: the table of contents, chapter summaries, the pieces that really reflected what was going in the book.

Would you say it was 50/50 the amount of time that it took to build those, or do you remember?

[00:23:19] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah, that’s a really interesting question. Well, if you remember, we had the realization that my chapters were way too long, and so my book was going to be like 100,000 words, and that’s way too long. So I think we had to redo the structure a couple of different times together as we were looking at the word count and what we wanted to say.

But yeah, I think that the book structure—by the time I got the marketing really clear…and I keep going back to the back cover copy because, we wordsmithed that however many words it is, how many words is the back cover copy?

[00:23:53] – Ann Kroeker

It’s usually about 250 words. [Note: It’s really only about 200 words]

[00:23:55] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah, I mean, that’s nothing. I probably spent three days on that thing.

But once I did that, I was like, I got it. I got it. And then I took that clarity back to the shape of the book. And then the chapter summaries were just like, boom, boom, boom.

So yeah, I would say, yeah, 50/50. And much of my book had already existed in a lot of different places on my computer.

And so it was truly like a puzzle of like, “Does this go here?” And, “Oh, I think we need actually new one here.” And so it wasn’t like I was starting like, “I’m going to write a book about X and starting from scratch.” It was like I had the idea in my head already.

[00:24:33] – Ann Kroeker

Like you were assembling from previous copy. What were those things? Were they messages you had given as a speaker? Were they just journal entries? What were the little pieces and snapshots?

[00:24:46] – Merideth Hite Estevez

They were mostly podcasts, but my podcast format is a little different than the book, obviously. There’s a listener question part of my podcast, which isn’t going to be in the book, but the category or framework umbrella of a particular podcast idea was already written.

And then I’m editing now, I’m going back and I’m writing the book now. And I’m seeing firsthand how much I’ve learned not just about my topic, but also about writing and how I’m shaping the book much differently than I shaped the writing in its original format, which was for spoken for audio.

I’m learning that my writing chops have gotten stronger, and of course they have. But I wanted so badly to be perfect when I arrived, Ann. I don’t know if that’s coming through.

But that’s why I’m writing this book because I just want everyone to know that, like Julia Cameron says, “The desire to make great art keeps us from making art.”

And so it’s so important just to get started and get going. And it’s okay if somebody has to come behind you and tell you you’re using the wrong word or the wrong comma or whatever. So yeah, I’m seeing now as I go back and edit those previous existing blog posts and podcasts into a book that is something totally different, even if the idea was there originally.

[00:26:05] – Ann Kroeker

Would it have been easier if you had started from scratch? You built your idea out, you built the framework in the chapters and the chapter summaries, you envisioned it and then just wrote from scratch? Would that have been easier than trying to assemble it?

[00:26:16] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I find myself deleting quite a lot and doing that paragraph by paragraph, but I don’t know yet.

I have a second book that is in the mix right now that we’re working on pitching and talking with people about. And so the second book will truly be… The idea is there, but it’ll truly be more from scratch. And so part two of this podcast will be me coming back and talking about whether or not that’s easier.

[00:26:43] – Ann Kroeker

That’s a great idea. I love that because I think that is a curious thing. I think most people don’t have source material from their life other than maybe journals.

And I feel like I’m thinking of another person I work with, and it is so tempting to get into those journals. And next thing you know, you’re spending three hours looking at something from 1997, and you’re not doing the writing. Is there really gold there?

But maybe there is. And so I think that would be another interesting topic to see what’s there. Yours are not journals. Yours were already written with an audience in mind, which already tightened it up. It wasn’t just free form. It wasn’t Morning Pages to borrow from Julia Cameron. That’s not where you’re pulling from, right?

[00:27:25] – Merideth Hite Estevez

No, we’re not supposed to let anybody ever read those anyway, by the way. That’s the rule.

[00:27:31] – Ann Kroeker

But there could a nugget in there. There could be a nugget.

[00:27:33] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Well, for sure. And this is where the chapter summaries really come in handy because I pull all this word vomit, sorry for the phrase, but I pull all this highly unedited raw idea that had been published. I just talked out loud in my podcast without much editing.

And then I go back and really look for what the chapter summary said we were going to do in this chapter, and then make that happen in a way that feels like a through line through the book, if that makes sense.

[00:28:03] – Ann Kroeker

Yes, it’s corralling the idea. And that idea has to support the big idea of the book, the big premise, the big thesis of the book.

And so each chapter has its own thing. And then those all feed into the main idea.

So if you sprawled in your podcast beyond the scope of that chapter—that’s what I’m hearing you say—then you would just trim that out. It gets to live still and help people in its other form, its original form. I have a quick question, though. Do you not use a script of any kind then for your podcast?

[00:28:31] – Merideth Hite Estevez

No, I read from… I write an essay and then I read it on the podcast.

[00:28:36] – Ann Kroeker

Okay. It sounded like you were just talking.

[00:28:37] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Okay. Well, but I don’t overly edit and sometimes I go off script.

And you encouraged me once in our coaching session like, “Are Your Podcasts transcripts online?”

And I’m like, “I can’t publish what I have written that I’m saying. It’s so messy. The words are misspelled and the little red squiggly lines are everywhere. I can’t publish that.”

But eventually you convinced me to do that for SEO purposes. But yeah, it’s a script, but it’s loose. And the more I do it, actually, the looser it becomes and the longer the episodes become.

[00:29:11] – Ann Kroeker

Which is fun. We get to know you better and you’re feeling more comfortable in your own voice. I love that. Do you have anything that’s really surprised you about this journey from… And let’s focus maybe just on the publishing journey, but you can include the writing journey because that’s all part of it. That’s part of the journey is your writing and moving toward publishing. What’s been the most surprising thing along the way?

[00:29:30] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I know that not everyone experiences this. So let me first name my privilege that this process has actually been pretty okay. So if you’re listening to this and you’re like, “Wow, that was not my experience.”

I just want to encourage us all when we experience rejection to look for the goodness in the rejection.

That’s what surprised me that even the rejections are good because they have information for me. And sometimes there’s a compliment in there like, “Well, I thought Merideth was a wonderful writer, or a beautiful person, or a bright whatever, but the book is not organized well.”

Or “I felt that I don’t really agree with her scope, or I think she’s trying to do too many things.” One person said that and that’s really useful. That is really useful information.

And to know that they read my words, I am so grateful for that. I am surprised by how much joy it brought me to know that this great editor who I respect deeply, their team read my words. Even though they said no to my words, I am surprised at how much joy there is even in the rejections.

[00:30:46] – Merideth Hite Estevez

And I hope that it will always stay that way. I think as the stakes get higher and higher, it will probably be harder to say that. So remind me of this later, Ann.

[00:30:57] – Merideth Hite Estevez

What surprised me is that when people read my words…even if they give me a pass, even when they say “pass” on my book idea, it really, truly, it gives me information, it gives me clarity, and it brings me joy.

[00:31:10] – Ann Kroeker

When you’re just getting started, that is really hard to do.

And the fact that as a first-time author, you were able to go ahead and lean into that, feel the sting of “They don’t want me,” but know you’re in the game and you were doing the work of taking the risk…

You put yourself out there.

Because you never get a rejection if you don’t share anything.

But you are sharing it and you’re getting that incredible input.

Thank you for sharing that. I think it will be very, very important for people to hear to say that: Take what you can. That would be the gift that could help you change it, improve it, or grow as a person.

You may never know the answer to this, but why do you think they chose your project—and consequently you—as opposed to any other people writing about creativity?

[00:31:59] – Merideth Hite Estevez

I’m instantly thinking about all the people who didn’t choose me and all the reasons they gave me why!

I think that my writing is really vulnerable.

And I think when you read my bio or you meet me, people often say, “Oh, you’re so confident and you’re so successful with a capital S.”

And I feel like it’s a really important part of my story to know that things are not always as they seem. That there’s more to a person than what they do or how they perform.

I try to be really honest and real about that because I have achieved a lot of things and gotten a lot of degrees, and I know that none of that gives me a feeling of worthiness. That’s not where my worthiness comes from.

That’s really the core of the book. It’s that when we base everything on our performance, we will come up short because we can’t always perform well and there’s always going to be somebody who’s better.

I think they chose me because that is a compelling message because I think people think, “Oh, if I could only go to Juilliard or if I could only get a full bride or go to Yale, then I would be it…

[00:33:09] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Then I would make it and then I’d be happy.”

I think that is a message that people need in any field, not just in music.

I also think that people like music.

In the book, the whole metaphor of the book is a musical metaphor. I think a lot of people enjoy music and like music but don’t have a way in to talking about music in a way that… Because they automatically feel insecure or they don’t have knowledge.

And so I think that the topic to write a book about music is I think that’s an intriguing thing. Somebody said that. “I do love music but I don’t like to read books about it because a lot of them are so cerebral or boring or heavy, or I can’t break into them because I don’t have any music training.”

So I think it’s probably those two things: the vulnerability of my story and the lens through which I see the world, which is musical.

[00:34:01] – Ann Kroeker

And even though, well, your book uses this musical analogy, but you apply it then more broadly: any creative person can borrow these metaphors to use it to apply to their work as a dancer, a painter, a writer.

[00:34:14] – Merideth Hite Estevez

There’s a quote that’s like, writing about music is like dancing about architecture.

And the quote has a couple of different… We don’t know who said it. It could be many people. But anyway, it’s an interesting idea.

I think that’s one reason why I love writing about music, but about visual arts. And if you listen to my podcast, you know I like to write. I like to dip into all these different art forms because I think so many of us are all trying to find words for that spiritual thing we experience when we’re creating.

So yes, it is a musical metaphor, but it’s not a book for just musicians. And there’s lots of visual arts metaphors and writing metaphors in there as well. I’m a big metaphor person.

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[00:34:57] – Ann Kroeker

That’s incredible. That’s part of that finding the language is also finding the imagery that we can then bring to our minds when we’re in different moments of the creative process or the creative journey or the creative frustrations we may encounter on our path.

Much earlier in this conversation, you said that along the way, when you started your podcast, you said that doing that had all sorts of consequences. Some of them were embarrassing. Do you have a story of how you’ve embarrassed yourself, perhaps publicly through some part of this process?

[00:35:30] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Oh, I have many. I have many. And you all are going to go and quickly listen—I didn’t take the episodes down either.

So I am from South Carolina, and I have always grown up with this fear of looking stupid or sounding stupid. And I made the joke in my bio about trying to speak foreign languages with a Southern accent. And I was taught that my accent was not good and was wrong.

And when I lived in Germany and I was trying to learn German, I had to work with the phonetics teachers extra long because none of my vowels were pure. They would say, say, “eh,” and I’d say, “Ayyyy.” Every every a vowel was a diphthong.

So anyway, how this relates to my being embarrassed. I struggle with pronunciation of words. I think because of my insecurity about my accent and just the way I read, I don’t know, I’m just really insecure about that. And when you’re a podcaster, you need to say the words right.

So one of my first episodes, a listener wrote in and was giving me feedback or something, and I answer listener questions. And I read the person’s listener question, and I think the word was “soldered.”

[00:36:39] – Ann Kroeker

Like where you’re taking the heat and making things stick together?

[00:36:42] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah, like making jewelry. And soldered, how do you spell soldered?

[00:36:48] – Ann Kroeker

I think it’s like S O L DER. Is that right? Soldering, it looks like.

[00:36:54] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah. And so I said soldered, and my dad, who was pretty much the only listener to my podcast at that point, was like, You mispronounced the word soldered. And I was like, Oh, my God. I want to die. I want to crawl under the table and die.

And then another time I said, just by accident, that… So there’s a famous piece by Johann Sebastian Bach called the Goldberg Variations. It’s the name of a piece. You may have heard it. It’s a beautiful piece of music. And I called it the Goldenberg Variations, and I didn’t catch it in editing. So yeah, those are the pronounciation—the pronunciation—it’s just, yeah, that was embarrassing.

[00:37:33] – Ann Kroeker

And why did you leave them up? If they were that embarrassing, or what is there to learn from that, for us to learn from that?

[00:37:42] – Merideth Hite Estevez

In the next episode, after the whole soldered situation…first of all, in England, they don’t pronounce it soldered, right? So I made a joke out of it. In the next episode, I said, “And I’d thank you to a listener, my dad, who corrected my pronunciation of the word soldered, and I did a little reading…”

So I leaned into it. And I think I go back to vulnerability. I think it’s so important to be real and to show yourself making light of things. I think that feels real. That felt really important. So yeah, those are just two. The other more embarrassing things I did take down.

[00:38:19] – Ann Kroeker

That’s good, too. I think we should feel that freedom with our digital efforts. Until it’s put literally on a page and printed and put in print, we can still change it and take it down if we need to. So we don’t need to get into whatever was that embarrassing to you.

But I do also feel like this vulnerability seems like a straying from your personality that worked so hard to be the best top and everything at Juilliard. Does that sound like I’m seeing you change? Is that an indication of your change?

[00:38:50] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Absolutely, yeah.

A huge part of the book is seeing that shadow sister of perfectionism is shame.

I have worked really hard in my own personal work to resist shame and to be an unshamable person, meaning that I don’t equate how I perform or how I act or what people think of me with my own worthiness.

And you can still work hard and achieve great things and publish books and get followers. You can do all that without equating it with your value and without it affecting how you wake up and feel about yourself every day.

That has been the crux of the work I’ve been doing since I started writing and since I started working with other artists. It’s very freeing. It frees me from the weight of my whole life.

So yeah, that’s why I want to write the book because I want to help people.

[00:39:45] – Ann Kroeker

It sounds like a life practice, but is there any advice for how somebody might do that, to separate the achievement from the worth so that whether they achieve or not…

Because looking at you, I mean, honestly, Merideth, you’re achieving everything. You’re getting everything. You did get some rejections along the way, but in my timeline of watching others land contracts, yours has been an incredibly accelerated path, even though you may not feel that way.

You got it. You got everything. You got the agent, you got the contract, you’re writing the book.

Next thing you know, you’re going to be on bestseller lists. That’s what we do hope for that, too.

But how did you manage to do that? Then how can somebody who’s not achieving end up in the same safe place or healthy place that you’re describing?

Any ideas or advice on how to at least get started on that process?

[00:40:36] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Well, in a quick sound bite, let me solve all your problems.

No, but I joke about that. But it is really truly it’s a lifelong pursuit. I’m still working on that.

To you it looks like, “Oh, my gosh, you’re so successful.”

But see, that in and of itself is not… It almost doesn’t matter the way I seem to other people because in my old self, my mind was a toxic work environment. And so no matter what I achieved, it was never enough and it was never perfect. And I could always find things that were wrong about it.

So I think the first step to not equating your value with your performance is to first realize that the instrument is you.

Meaning you can put your thumb on yourself all the time to make yourself work harder. But if you’re not taking care, really good care of yourself in terms of your health, your psychiatric health, your mental health, your physical health, like, are you sleeping? Are you eating? Are you fueling your body with food and really treating yourself, like Julia Cameron says, treat yourself like a precious object and it’ll make you strong.

[00:41:45] – Merideth Hite Estevez

And so the first step is to look at your creative impulse and your desire to make things that you care about as separate from you.

And the instrument of the act of making something is it all relies on your own health.

The first thing in every coaching call I ask, what did you have for lunch?

How good are you at taking care of you and reparenting yourself and your inner artist and your inner artist child?

That’s really the first step is to look how’s the self care and how are you really, truly doing, even the hard things to make your life better?

[00:42:25] – Ann Kroeker

And maybe the second step is to sign up for coaching with Merideth.

[00:42:30] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Well, I love coaching because as I’ve seen from working with you, it isn’t that you need your coach to know everything and to fix you. A great coach—and Anne Kroeker is one—a great coach is somebody who helps you figure out what’s best for you and realize you’re capable of all the things that you want to do.

It’s just a matter of naming it. And finding the steps to make it happen. And moving the obstacles out of the way one by one and having somebody give you the skills and the gift of peace of mind and clarity that a coach can give you.

It’s Ann. Just hire Ann.

[00:43:12] – Ann Kroeker

Oh, man. Well, I think there is a principle here. We’re mutual admiration society here. Me bragging on you, you bragging on me. But in the end, I think it goes all the way back to the beginning when you realize you needed help to do this, to move toward this goal. “I want to try to get a book published. I don’t know what I’m and so I need to get somebody in there.”

I think what you’re saying here is, yeah, and also the inner work that you’re struggling with, if the thing that’s holding you back, it may be present in 90 percent of artists who struggle with different degrees of questioning themselves, doubting themselves, etc. The toxic work environment of our inner self.

When we’re there, go get the help you need.

I think there’s a principle there I’m sensing is like, don’t wait to get the help you need when you’re knee deep in the mess of trying to do your own book proposal with a little template you found online.

Go get the help you need. So you have the thing you need to move forward faster because you really accelerated your timeline.

[00:44:11] – Ann Kroeker

Or if you’re trying to create art, go get the instruction, the teacher you need so that you stop making all the errors over and over again, but you learn the technique you need and you can move forward faster. But alongside that, you do it in a way that’s not self destructive. “But I have to do it perfectly.”

Am I summarizing it?

[00:44:31] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah. And that brings up a really good point. Sometimes finding the right help means breaking up with your help.

There are so many people I coach who have had toxic teachers, toxic mentors, toxic parents.

And sometimes you carry the weight of all that baggage of the negative inner voices that they have programmed in your brain. And sometimes finding the right help means taking care of yourself so much that you know this is not the right help for me.

And so I need to leave this school or I need to leave this relationship. Yeah, that has been a huge part of it. Finding help and finding the right help.

[00:45:09] – Ann Kroeker

Is there anything about your publishing journey that has changed the way you coach people?

[00:45:15] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah. I mean, you told me that it was going to take a long time. Not just from hearing back from people via email, but from when you sign the contract to when the book comes out. And there’s this long period, I remember you explaining it to me that there’s a year that will go by where you don’t hear much at all, more or less.

And so I think it’s helped me with coaching in that it’s given me a new perspective on time and having to encourage people—and get better at this practice myself—to sustain interest and motivation and hope over really long periods of time and to do that in a way that feels healthy and again, doesn’t begin to start being like, “Well, I still haven’t heard back and so I can’t eat today or I’m really stressed.”

How do you sustain engagement and hope in the creative process without it eating you alive?

That process, going through that where I had to wait three weeks before somebody responded to an email, it’s made me a better coach because it’s encouraged me to help people see time differently and maintain their creative hope.

[00:46:34] – Ann Kroeker

And creative practices and healthy practices, I’m hearing infused or mingled in there where like, “Eat your lunch!” And “Go get a counselor or somebody who can help you on your emotional struggles, to work through your emotional struggles,” and so on. So it seems like there’s all these layers that every creative person needs to be attentive to.

[00:46:53] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Yeah, you’re a person and we’re complex. You’re not just the writer. And writing can feel like therapy. It can be therapeutic, I guess is the right word.

And it can also be a place to ruminate and spin around in a spiral down.

And so the idea of using writing and creative practice as a way to process, but not a way to stay stuck in your tortured artist mindset.

[00:47:21] – Ann Kroeker

Well, that’s a good word. I suppose we need to wind things down at this point. So what would be some of your last little bits of advice or encouragement to anybody who is hearing all of this, maybe wondering where to start or how to keep going? You’ve said so much, I don’t want you to have to repeat yourself, but how would you like to leave your interview here?

[00:47:46] – Merideth Hite Estevez

Well, two things.

Let me start with the first one is set a deadline. And I don’t mean necessarily like, I need to have a book published by the time I’m 40, which was my goal, by the way.

But there’s so many things you can’t control about that. And so setting a goal in that way, that’s not a super helpful goal, but a deadline. So set a deadline for yourself every week to share or write or do something creatively.

You need a deadline. You need a structure.

I know I’ve done a lot of talk against discipline because I tend to be a very disciplined person and discipline has factored into my perfectionism and my shame. But the disciplined act—and maybe a better word is devotion—devotional act towards exercising your creative impulse every week.

And whether or not you publish that online or make a podcast or share it with somebody, it doesn’t even really matter.

Having that deadline that occurs will create a container for you to grow. And that weekly process of doing that over and over and over and over, that is how things are achieved is by charging the battery bit by bit by bit.

[00:49:01] – Merideth Hite Estevez

So that’s the first thing.

The second thing would be—and this is in the book, so you can read more there, but—the idea of naming what matters to you in the form of an oath or a creed.

If you have beliefs about the creator of the universe or the creative power within you, if you have beliefs about that, if you know where your worthiness comes from, if you have a quote or two of some great artists that really resonate deeply, write it all down, make it into an oath and a creed that you can return to when you feel lost.

That’s something that I’ve been doing in workshops in preparation for the book with artists, and it’s going to be featured on my podcast because so many of us, like, we believe in coaching, we have all the answers that we seek within ourselves.

And the act of writing out what you believe creatively—what you believe about your creative act—is a really powerful way to set yourself straight when you’re feeling lost.

So the artist’s oath and set a deadline.

Those are my two things.

[00:50:04] – Ann Kroeker