http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 This is an XML content feed. It is intended to be viewed in a newsreader or syndicated to another site, subject to copyright and fair use. http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18635 <pre>I heard Rav Schachter mention (yutorah.org shiur on bishul b'shabbos) in the name of Rav Soloveitchik that there are two hanhogos for the following situation: Erev Shabbos, just before licht tzinden, someone places a kettle containing tap water on a Grufa uKtuma heat source. According to those from Lita, it is mutar, presumably because the person is mesiach daas from the kettle. I assume the same holds for placing a raw chicken in one our regular ovens. (some put it in a metal box I believe so that there is no Mechze K'Mvashel) The minhag of Galicia (and I assume the rest of Poland) is to be choshesh to the Kasha by Rabbi A. Eiger on the Mechaber as brought in his comments to the Mishna in Shabbos "Ain Zolin" on 19B in reference to the Rashbo in Shabbos 36B where the Rashbo is also choshesh for "Shemo Yagis" How are people Noheg (both for liquid (eg water) and solid (eg chicken, or perhaps cholent)? Personally, we always make sure dry is machol ben drusoi or yad soledes .... _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> I. Balbin 2009-11-15T09:46:57 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18634 <pre>&lt;continuing from Areivim&gt; Whilst on the subject of Tzaar ba'alei chaim, can anyone explain the gemora on BavaMetzia 85a, that says Rebbe was punished for telling a fleeing korbon, to go be a korbon? I never understood this gemora- What exactly did he do wrong? What should he have done? Tzaar baalei chaim isn't classically understood to require one to not kill an animal just because it doesn't want to be killed. Thanks! Mike _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> torahmike< at >gmail.com 2009-11-15T05:09:33 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18633 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> T613K< at >aol.com 2009-11-15T02:46:41 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18632 <pre> He may have had no children, and a brother whose location was unknown or who was a minor, or an apikores or meshumad who could be expected to refuse chalitza. </pre> Zev Sero 2009-11-15T00:09:35 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18631 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> martin brody 2009-11-14T22:13:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18630 <pre>There is a book entitled "tefillat nashim" by aliza lavi It is a collection ofprayers written by or for women over the ages. The first prayer in the book begins modis ani lefanecha elokai al kol hachesed ... the exact version is from Italy about 200 years but she traces similar versions to the middle ages. Note that it begins in the feminine (modis) but different than modern Hebrew. Other prayers also use the feminine The author spoke recently in our town and mentioned that over 100,000 copies have seen sold. She told a story about a phone call she received from the Belz rebbetzin. She remarked that she was surprised to get a phone call from Belz. The rebbetzin responded that she was also surprised to call but that enough women in the kehila had bought the book that they wanted a meeting </pre> Eli Turkel 2009-11-14T16:41:56 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18629 <pre>From: rabbirichwolpoe&lt; at &gt;gmail.com AIUI Yekkes and Sephardim did follow the diqduq of modah for females long before WWII. ++ Any proof - in print? SBA _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> SBA 2009-11-14T12:27:02 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18628 <pre>: AFAIK the earliest printed siddurim have vowels. And I don't think modeh : ani itself existed before printing. As I wrote a number of times, I agree. I also gave the suggested origin, a replacement for that part of E-lokai Neshamah (not "netzor", thanks) after the berakhah got moved from a waking up ritual to part of Shacharis. To say something new: The oldest source for Modeh Ani is Seder haYom, a siddur written by R' Moshe ibn Makhir miTzefas in 1599. Despite his name, RMiMmS was in Venice at the time. See Halikhos Shelomo ch 2, RSZA advises women to say "Modah". R' Chaim Kanievsky does as well. Still working on the source for the Gra... :-)BBii! -Micha </pre> Micha Berger 2009-11-13T19:35:25 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18627 <pre> AFAIK the earliest printed siddurim have vowels. And I don't think modeh ani itself existed before printing. </pre> Zev Sero 2009-11-13T18:38:50 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18626 <pre>REMT: Question: How strictly wad LO AD"U or LO D"U applied? If you have a strict LO AD"U, then sfeiqa deyoma is de facto limitted to the case of Mon. Vs. Tues. [Which as we have it is only 1/9 possibiity] I dunno. Re: The first 2 R Yochanan Ben Nuri says "eidei sheqer heim" because their internal eidus was contradictory. As such AFAIK their eidus is passul. But RG said they simply were mistaken In the second R Dosa b Hyrcanos says Sheqer re: the moon's disappearance... This is how I understand P'shat: This mihsnah is saying RG took very "flaky" eidim and accepted their edus because of his cheshbon, something that comes accross to me as "The ends justify the means" in that «wink wink» the eidim were really not solid eidim but RG "heard what he wanted to hear and disregarded the rest" And no one defended his tactic! R Aqiva only defended his Authority to "pull shtick" [so to speak] because what's done is done even be'ta'us. No one defended him by saying : "RG was simply someich on palginan dibbura" etc. Technically the eidim gave a piece of emes but the on the whole the eidus was really passul as "eidei sheqer heim" Thus, RG arrived at a correct verdict by dubious means. And afaik no one defended his tactics, only they told R Yehoshua not to deviate from the results lest we break up into sects. IOW we cannot have two calendars even if RG was "playing fast and loose" Limmud z'chus: Now RG might have felt compelled to get in the qiddush Hachodesh "on time" and extenuating curcumstances may have pressed him to pull this "fast one.". So there is room to be melamed zechus, But his colleagues did. not seem to do so. Only later generations were more forgiving My 2 Cents PS See artscroll yad avraham RH 2:8 [P. 53 in old edition] Although RG knew they could not have seen the moon on both occassions.. Also see above that the Aruch Laner that states "New moon is never visible in the morning" GS RRW Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> rabbirichwolpoe< at >gmail.com 2009-11-13T15:48:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18625 <pre> This is one opinion brought by the Rambam KHCh 3:17, but the other opinion he brings is that once they have heard the testimony and it appears to be valid they no longer have a choice, and must act on it (though of course if they refused to do their duty it would remain undone, and Rosh Chodesh would be delayed). Without having looked at all at the sources, simply as a matter of logic and jurisprudence the second opinion seems to me to make more sense; nobody forced them to hear the eidim in the first place, but now that the hearing has been held and the evidence is there, how can they not act on it? If they wanted a 30-day month they should have declared a bank holiday and closed the BD for the day. Give the eidim a nice meal so they don't feel their trip was a waste, but don't go through the charade of a judicial hearing that you have no intention of acting on. </pre> Zev Sero 2009-11-13T15:24:01 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18624 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> Gershon Dubin 2009-11-13T14:27:36 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18623 <pre> Indeed it has. For those who would like to see those posts, put the following line into Google: "modah ani" site:aishdas.org It will show you all web pages with the exact phrase "modah ani", but only the ones which are on R' Micha's site. Akiva Miller ____________________________________________________________ Doctorate Degrees Online Boost your career with an online doctoral degree. Enroll today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=AkwgfXSrWOnIQ26n8tJhVwAAJz3zeK-F0bLcqGb51B0rOTOKAAQAAAAFAAAAAEAPOz8AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyOQAAAAA= _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> kennethgmiller< at >juno.com 2009-11-13T11:54:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18622 <pre> Good point, but beware: If one goes back *too* far, he'll be in an era of siddurim which had no printed vowels. I think this topic is a great example of "lo ra'inu aino raaya" (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence). If we can't find any siddurim which include "modah", one could easily argue that this says nothing about how the women davened, but that it shows *who* used the siddurim. In other words, one could argue that women have been saying "modah" for ages, but that it was passed on orally; if women were less literate than men, why bother printing it in the siddur? Akiva Miller ____________________________________________________________ Save On Health Insurance Compare health insurance companies and save money today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=E9xZ1-J0mKkH_vOAj25cdAAAJz3zeK-F0bLcqGb51B0rOTOKAAQAAAAFAAAAABtD2z0AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAkQRwAAAAA= _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> kennethgmiller< at >juno.com 2009-11-13T11:45:29 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18621 <pre>: If anyone knows any good sources I should focus on for this talk, please let : me know. What me, sources? Seriously, though, perhaps THE central issues I would focus on if I were the one talking are: 1- The difference between a po'el and an uman -- how much are they paid to work certain hours, and how much is it by getting the job done. Most modern professins are somewhere in between -- if you aren't making a deadline but you put in some overtime to try, you're okay. Putting in the time but not getting work done or getting the work done on time but chatting on Avodah/Areivim for 6 hours out of 9 would both typically be grounds for dismissal. Our current employment agreements are therefore somewhere in the middle. Again, IMHO. 2- Contracts vs expectations, today vs the gemara. In the days of the gemara, hand labor in the orchards meant not having the time to get out of the tree for minchah. Few of us are in those kinds of jobs. Also, there is usually a gap between the terms in the contract and the informal understanding of our business culture. How much to each of these -- the norm at the time the halakhah was codified, the norm today, and the contract you signed -- each play into my obligations toward my boss. 3- Does it make a difference if it's an issue of geneivas akum? :-)BBii! -Micha </pre> Micha Berger 2009-11-13T17:33:19 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18620 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> Liron Kopinsky 2009-11-13T14:53:34 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18619 <pre>: My own feeling is that "Modeh ani" is a kind of fixed text that everyone says : just the way it was fixed, like the pasuk, "Na'ar hayisi gam zakanti velo : ra'isi tzadik ne'ezav" -- which I have no problem saying even thought I was : never a na'ar and am not yet a zekeina. I earlier accidentally mentioned E-lokai Netzor... It's another techinah in the first person, and it IS reconjugated from the pasuq. As you know from Shabbos Morning, "LeDavid, Beshanoso es Ta'amo" has "Netzor leshonkha meira, usefasekha medabeir mirma", in the 2nd person. Fixed texts is more of an issue for tefillos than techinos, so I might be able to argue that any prayer written in the first person singular should not be considered so firmly etched in stone, But my point was that Modeh Ani is no pasuq or maamar Chazal, and even post-dates the rishonim. Any reluctance we might have for tampering with pesuqim really shouldn't apply. As for were the Gaon says that "Modah" is appropriate.... It's something I've repeted bishmo now for years. I have to go back to re-find where I got it from. I'm not ignoring you, just have patience! :-)BBii! -Micha </pre> Micha Berger 2009-11-13T11:10:49 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18618 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> Joseph Mosseri 2009-11-13T03:57:32 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18617 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> Elazar M. Teitz 2009-11-13T03:35:54 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18616 <pre>Please, I would really appreciate a source for this Gra-ism. For those, who were surprised that I was surprised at the artscroll women's siddur use of Modeh, thinking that moda was more in their "not modern" type nusach, remember that artscroll did put the brackets around the "male bits" in Tefilla Zaka. menucha Micha Berger wrote: _______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> menucha 2009-11-13T10:41:40 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah/18615 <pre>_______________________________________________ Avodah mailing list Avodah&lt; at &gt;lists.aishdas.org http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org </pre> T613K< at >aol.com 2009-11-12T23:26:12 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.culture.religion.jewish.avodah