Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved

The Arctic Sea Mystery And Other Unexplained Maritime Disappearances

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 02:29:00 +0000

Have You Know About This?

"The Arctic Sea, the cargo ship that disappeared before resurfacing off the coast fo the Cape Verde island of Sal, joins a list of unexplained shipping disasters. Here is a list of some of the unexplained shipping incidents, both real and legendary.

Mary Celeste:
A brigantine merchant ship discovered in early December 1872 in the Atlantic Ocean unmanned and apparently abandoned, in spite of the good weather. The ship had only been at sea a month and had six months of food and water on board. Cargo was virtually untouched and personal belongings were still in place. It is often described as the archetypal ghost ship. Made famous by Arthur Conan Doyle's short story 'The Marie Celeste'.

HMS Sappho:
A royal Navy brig that went missing off the Australian coast in 1857-8. It was part of a British squadron patrolling the coast of West Africa to suppress the slave trade. Following a diplomatic incident with an American ship, it was sent to Australia. It sailed under Commander Moresby, but failed to arrive. Late in 1858 rumours began spreading in England it had been wrecked on an island off the coast of Australia, that some had been rescued and Captain Moresby had gone insane. Naval authorities believe it most likely hit the rocks and islets in Bass Strait or she capsized during severe gales.

Click to view large

USS Cyclops:
The loss of the Proteus-class US Navy ship and 306 crew and passengers without a trace sometime after March 4 1918 remains the single largest loss of life in US Naval history not directly involving combat. The ship's fate still remains a mystery, with no wreckage ever found.

After making an unscheduled stop in Barbados for supplies, Cyclops set out for Baltimore, and was sighted on March 9 but was then never seen or heard from again. Its disappearance is often credited to the Bermuda Triangle.

MV Joyita:
A merchant vessel that mysteriously disappeared in South Pacific in 1955. The vessel used to patrol Hawaii's Big Island until the end of WWII. On Oct 3 1955, it left Samoa's Apia harbour bound for the Tokelau Islands, about 270 miles away. Her departure was delayed because her port engine clutch failed. The ship eventually left on one engine, with 16 crew and 9 passengers. Five weeks later, it was sighted partially submerged with no trace of any passengers or crew, with four tons of cargo also missing.

Click to view large

The Flying Dutchman:
The most famous of ghost vessels, apparently seen off the Cape of Good Hope. According to folklore, it is a ghost ship that can never go home, doomed to sail the oceans forever. According to folklore, the captain, facing down a mutiny, killed the leader and threw him overboard. Stormy clouds parted and a shadowy figure appeared condemning the ship to an eternity on the seas. It is usually spotted from afar, sometimes with a ghostly light. The story of the Flying Dutchman was turned into an opera, while more recently, the ship was used in The Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, where it was captained by Davy Jones, played by Bill Nighy.

Lady Lovibond:
Said to have been wrecked on February 13, 1748, and reappear off the Kent coast every 50 years. The ship was at sea because her captain, Simon Peel had just been married and was celebrating. According to legend, one of the crew, some say the helmsman, became smitten with the captain's new bride, Annetta, and flew into a jealous rage. He murdered the captain and steer the ship onto the treacherous Goodwin Sands, killing everyone aboard. It is said the ship is seen on the anniversary of the disaster.

Octavius:
A ghost ship, probably legendary and not actual. Found west of Greenland by the a whaler in 1775, the boarding party found the entire crew below deck, dead, frozen and almost perfectly preserved, much like The Jenny. The captain's body was supposedly still at the table in his cabin, pen in hand. Supposedly the vessel had left England for the Orient in 1761, and successfully arrived at its destination the following year. The captain then gambled on a return, with the unfortunate result of being trapped in sea ice north of Alaska. The ship was never seen again after its encounter with the whaler.

Carroll A. Deering:
A five-masted commercial schooner found off North Carolina in 1921, with its crew missing. The Deering may have been a victim of mutiny or piracy. On January 31, 1921, it was sighted run aground on Diamond Shoals, an area off the coast of Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. Rescue ships found that the vessel had been completely abandoned. The ship's log, navigation equipment and the crew's personal effects were gone. The US Government launched an extensive investigation into the disappearance of the Deering. A number of theories surrounded the disappearance of the crew, including piracy, Russian communists and paranormal activity. The investigation wound up in 1922 with no answer.

Baychimo:
The Baychimo, a steel 1,322 ton cargo steamer that was built in 19914 in Sweden, used to trade with Inuit settelements in Canada. On October 1 1931, the vessel became trapped in pack ice. The crew briefly abandoned ship, returning two days later when it broke free of ice. It became mired again on October 8 and the Hudson's Bay Company sent aircraft to retrieve the crew. However 15 of the 22 crew remained behind, intending to wait out the winter. In November a blizzard struck, after which there was no sign of the ship. The skipper assumed it had sunk. Over the following months however, there were various sightings by Inuit hunters. While the crew managed to retrieve the most valuable furs on the vessel before abandoning it, it did not sink. Over the next several decades there were numerous sightings. The last recorded sighting was by a group of Inuit in 1969, 38 years after she was abandoned. Her fate is unknown."

via telegraph.co.uk

I'm enthralled and vaguely unsettled by this kind of disappearance,
particularly when the Bermuda Triangle is involved.

Click to view large

triangle history

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:53:00 +0000

about triangle history..

The “Triangle” in History: a shape takes form

“The region involved, a watery triangle bounded roughly by Florida, Bermuda, and Puerto Rico, measures less than a thousand miles on any one side.”
. . .So George X. Sand introduced the Triangle to his readers in October 1952 in a short article for Fate magazine, entitled “Sea Mystery at our Back Door.”
Sand’s article recounted the latest disappearance (the Sandra in 1950) and went on to discuss some of the other recent baffling mysteries like NC16002, Star Tiger and Star Ariel, aside from

devoting most of the article to Flight 19.
The Triangle remained a colloquial expression throughout the 1950s, employed by locals when another disappearance or unexplained crash happened.
By the early 1960s, it had acquired the name The Deadly Triangle. In his 1962 book, Wings of Mystery, author Dale Titler also devoted pages in Chapter 14— “The Mystery of Flight 19”— to recounting the most recent incidents of disappearances and even began to ponder theories, such as electromagnetic anomalies and the ramifications of Project Magnet. His book would set the temper for Triangle

The Deadly Triangle as it appeared in a 1962 book Wings of Mystery by Dale Titler. The idea that Vincent Gaddis invented the shape and mystery is nonsense. It had long been popular before his time. He seems merely to have been the first one to call it Bermuda Triangle. It is also nonsense that Gaddis or anybody else ever thought that Miami, Bermuda, and San Juan were absolute nodal points. Gaddis was merely trying to give the area geographic life to a growing audience.

Fate’s October 1952 issue. The Triangle begins.

discussions thereafter. (Just in April 1962 Allan W. Eckert had written a sensational piece in the American Legion Magazine on Flight 19 ((“The Mystery of the Lost Patrol”)) which introduced some of the most popular but erroneous dialogue purported coming from Flight 19, including lines like the ocean looks strange, all the compasses are going haywire, and that they could not make out any directions, “everything is strange.” This became a may pole for electromagnetic discussions).
However, popularity on the subject was beginning to spread beyond the area of the Atlantic seaboard. But the moniker “Deadly Triangle” contained absolutely no geographic reference in it— in other words “Deadly Triangle” could be anywhere.
Then in February 1964 Vincent Gaddis wrote an article for Argosy Magazine. The article was little different from others, though it added a few more recent cases like Marine Sulphur Queen. However, it was his title that finally clinched with the public: “The Deadly Bermuda Triangle.” Adding “Bermuda” finally materialized the location for everybody, though Gaddis clarified “in and about this area” many have disappeared.
In his popular 1965 book Invisible Horizons, Gaddis devoted chapter 13 to “The Triangle of Death.” The concept of the Bermuda Triangle was spreading rapidly.
Ironically, the first book published devoted to the subject was entitled Limbo of the Lost (1969) by John Spencer, in which he proposed the area had no real shape at all and elaborately tried to include the Gulf of Mexico as well as New Jersey. It sold in limited quantities, but was later reproduced in paperback in the early 1970s and did well.
Dozens of magazine and newspaper articles came out in the early ‘70s, each author offering a general shape. Richard Winer proposed “The Devil’s Triangle” and extended it nearly to the Azores near Portugal. Ivan Sanderson was sure it was an oblong shape centered almost entirely north of Bermuda.
But no book sold as well as Charles Berlitz’s 1974 bestseller, The Bermuda Triangle. Selling way over 5,000,000 copies in hardback, it became a phenomenon. Berlitz also cautioned about the exact shape, as had the others. But to this day Bermuda Triangle is deferred to for the same reason “Deadly Triangle” failed—there is simply no other name that calls to mind the general area as does Bermuda Triangle.
But the vast popularity of the subject brought into vogue an art that is still trying to flourish today—debunking. Out of all the books that were published, only one remains in reprint today: Larry Kusche’s book The Bermuda Triangle Mystery— Solved. But that is the subject of another article.

bermuda triangle current home of dajjal??

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:43:00 +0000

GenN
29-05-03, 08:07 AM
Salaam

Ok, some of you may think i'm finally losing it but yesterday i was watching a documentary about the bermuda triangle, you know that place where many ships and planes are always mysteriously dissapearing and where possibly the ancient lost city of Atlantis sank.

Anyways what kept springing too my mind was a hadith i'd read somewhere some time ago. Can't remember exactly how it goes, its fairly long but there was a sahabi traveeling by sea for whatever reason (can't rememebr) and i thinkk there was some storm and their ship got lost at sea. I think they crashed somewhere an island which they did not recognise and there was this huge man in chained up (description of the man in the hadith) and the man said i am the dajjal and soon i will be released ...... . I can't rememeber how the shabai then managed to get back but when he narrated the incident to muhammed (sallalahualihiwaslaam) he (sallalahualihiwaslaam) confirmed that indeed it was the dajjal he had seen/met.

Can someone possibly find the exact hadith?

what do you guys think (any thoughts) the bermuda triangle is possibly where the dajjal is chained up at this moment....

and please no :banghead:

wa salaam
dour
29-05-03, 01:00 PM
Do not trust documentaries about the Bermuda triangle. They try to make it more mysterious than it actually is. Everyone likes a good mystery; the trouble is they alter the facts to make it so. In fact it has been known that sometimes these documentaries will report newspaper stories as fact when the paper made the facts up to sell their paper.
Hafiz
29-05-03, 02:22 PM
Wow, sounds very interesting.

I would also be interested in reading that hadith.
Revolution
29-05-03, 03:30 PM
salaams,

Salim said, "Abd Allah ibn 'Omar said, The Prophet stood up to address the people. He praised Allah as He deserved to be praised, then he spoke about the Dajjal: 'I warn you against him; there is no Prophet who has not warned his people against him even Noah warned his people against him. But I will tell you something which no other Prophet has told his people. You must know that the Dajjal is one-eyed, and Allah is not one-eyed.'"

oh i think this is the hadith you are looking for...

Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) once gathered the Muslims in the masjid and said: "I have kept you here because Tamim ad-Dari, a Christian man who has embraced Islam, told me something which agrees with what I have told you about the Dajjal. He told me that he had sailed in a ship with thirty men from Banu Lakham and Banu Judham. The waves tossed them about for a month, then they came near an island at sunset. They approached the island on the ship's rafts, and landed. They were met by a beast that was so hairy that they could not tell its front from its back. They said: 'Woe to you! What are you?' It said: 'I am al-Jassasah.' They said: 'What is al-Jassasah?' It said: 'O people, go to this man in the monastery, for he is very eager to know about you,’” Tamim said that when it named a person to us we were afraid lest it be a devil. Tamim said: "We quickly went to the monastery. There we found a huge man with his hands tied up to his neck and with iron shackles between his legs up to the ankles. We said: 'Woe to you, who are you?' It said: 'You will soon know about me. Tell me who you are.' We said: 'We are people from Arabia. We sailed on a ship, but the waves have been tossing us about for a month, and they brought us to your island, where we met a beast which was so hairy that we could not tell its front from its back. We said to it: 'Woe to you what are you?' She said: 'I am al-Jassasah.' We asked: 'What is al-Jassasah?' and it told us: 'Go to this man in the monastery, for he is very eager to know about you.' So we came to you quickly, fearing that it might be a devil.' The man said: 'Tell me about the date-palms of Beisan.' We said: 'What do you want to know about them'?' He said: 'I want to know whether these trees bear fruits or not.' We said 'Yes'. He said: 'Soon they will not bear fruits.' Then he said: 'Tell me about the lake of Tabariyah (in Palestine).' We said: 'What do you want to know about it?' He said: 'Is there water in it'?' We said: 'There is plenty of water in it.' He said: 'Soon it will become dry.' Then he said: 'Tell me about the spring of Zughar.' We asked: 'What do you want to know about it'?' He asked: 'Is there water in it, and does it irrigate the land'?' We said: 'Yes, there is plenty of water in it, and the people use it to irrigate the land.' Then he said: 'Tell me about the illiterate Prophet [Muhammad], what has he done?' We said: 'He has left Makkah and settled in Yathrib (later Madinah).' He said: 'Do the Arabs fight against him'?' We said 'Yes'. He said: 'How does he deal with them'?' So we told him that Prophet Muhammad had overcome the Arabs around him and that they had followed him. He asked: 'Has it really happened?' We said yes. He said: 'It is better for them that they follow him. Now I will tell you about myself. I am the Dajjal. I will soon be permitted to leave this place: I will emerge and travel about the Earth. In forty nights, I will pass through every town, except Makkah and Madinah, for these have been forbidden to me. Every time I try to enter either of them, I will be met by an angel bearing an unsheathed sword, who will prevent me from entering. There will be angels guarding them at every passage leading to them.'” (Muslim).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

note: There are variations of this hadith, some go into detail some are brief and some people say that this event didnt happen physically it was a vision that tammin ad-dari had.

Wallahu Alim...Time Will Tell.
Muawiyah1
29-05-03, 04:37 PM
Assalamualikum we are currently discussing this topic in CG forums. The Brothers and sisters there have raised interesting points regard this matter. You 'll also find ahadeeth which you are looking for regarding this issue .You can join us in the discussion. Just click here:

http://forums.clearguidance.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=13619&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

And also:

http://forums.clearguidance.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=17246

Frankly speaking i also believe that the Dajjal is locked up somewhere in the Bermuda triangle.It is an established fact that the 12 Imam of the Shi'ites is the Dajjal. (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/azarinni/hum.htm) And many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam
sfvalley
29-05-03, 05:01 PM
'We are people from Arabia. We sailed on a ship, but the waves have been tossing us about for a month, and they brought us to your island, where we met a beast which was so hairy that we could not tell its front from its back.

wow, that is mighty fast sailing to get from arabia to the bermuda triangle in one month. Did they row really really fast?
forever
29-05-03, 05:07 PM
:eek: :confused: :banghead: :nervous:

Instead of discussing where the Dajjal is why dont we seek protection from Allah swt from Dajjal and pray that we are strong in iman incase he appears whilst we are alive.

Allah SWT knows best
baba
29-05-03, 05:57 PM
Perhaps there are some djinns in the Bermuda Triangle.
AbuMubarak
29-05-03, 06:03 PM
on a slightly different note, and being totally serious

when we read about ya'jooj and ma'jooj, do you ever reflect that they are still alive and hidden somewhere on earth?

and if you read the hadiths, they speak of all of the destruction that they will do when they are released

yes, we should seek refuge from dajjal, after every salat, and then some

but it is an intriguiging subject, the companions would ask the prophet often about ad-dajjal
forever
29-05-03, 07:03 PM
yes you are right it is an intriguing subject thats why if you note - if there is a talk intitled 'dajjal' the hereafter, yajuj and majuj, signs of judgement etc more people always turn up to search talks.

It is a shame we dont get that many people turning up to talks on hadith, prayer, fasting, zakat etc .

:confused: :crying:
Revolution
29-05-03, 07:24 PM
Did you know that some people think that the Biblical/Quranic Gog and Magog (Hajuj wa Mahjuj) are Russia and China ? Since these two nations have their unique culture and history almost shutout from the rest of the World. Their Military is fearsome and their manpower is massive - equally the infamous war of Armageddon mentioned in the Bible and Hadith according to some Christians will be fought when the Jews try to re-establish their 3rd Temple and it will start world war 3 as the Arabs/Muslims fight the Jews ... America and the West will support Israel whereas Russia and China will join in on the other side or for their own intrests - leading to the Final Showdown.

How much truth there is in these theories and prophecies Allah only knows but what we do know is that In the END the Deen of Allah will be Supreme. Allahu Akbar! The Final Victory will be for the Believers.
canute
29-05-03, 08:38 PM
Hmmm... Except the Chinese and Russians are too busy fighting Muslims or trying to erradicate the practice of Islam as we speak.
GenN
29-05-03, 09:10 PM
SalaamAnd many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam

Muwayiayh, i read through all the links you posted in that thread but could not find anything regarding the quote and ****te immams going to bermuda triangle. Could you please give me some links where more can be read. JKK

Wa salaam.
ClashCityRocker
29-05-03, 11:02 PM
salaams

i've always been interested in the Bermuda triangle for a long time. From having read stories as a child into adulthood, I can only conclude that there are some mysterious things in this world that we can't ever solve and which only Allah can know.

and yes i do believe the myth and curse of the Bermuda. as a muslim who believes in God's power and abilities, I also believe in UFOs, Jinn, ghosts, and even the mothman.

in fact I've seen several UFOs with my own eyes and have had some horrible encounters :torture: it is thought that there is a Jinn lurking in my house and sometimes at night I dont feel safe in bed.

wa'salaams

-CCR
forever
30-05-03, 05:47 PM
i believe in Jinns - Allah swt has told us about them in the Qur'an

But i dont believe in myths or superstitions - black cats, walking under ladders - its all nonesense! :banghead:

UFO's - Allah swt knows best but if there are any i dont think they would come to earth! :nonono:
Muawiyah1
02-06-03, 04:12 PM
GeNn, like i said before It is an established fact that Shi'ite 12th Imam is the Jewish Dajjal.
The Shiites believe that this imam of theirs is hidding somewhere and will come out from this hiding when the day of judgement is close. What is interesting to know is that several prominent medivial classical Shi'ite scholars from Iraq and Iran have stated in their works that they received invitations from their hiding imam, and when they accepted the invitation they found themselves in the presence of their imam/dajjal in a green island after they were being crossed from waves of oceans. They have described that this imam of theirs was surrounded by an army of jinns[could be shayateen] who took orders from him. And it was a complete different world where this imam resided. The description these classical shiite scholar gave of the location and of the island and of their travel account, best fit that to be somewhere in the Bermuda triangle,according to the shiites. These Shiites scholars who alleged to have received the invitation from their hidden imam are Sheikh Mufeed, Ishaq ibnu Yaqub etc. and you can find their accounts in the classical shiite work of Mafaatih al Jinaan,if i'm not mistaken.

And Clashcityrocker, can you give us your account of UFO experience if you dont mind.
seven
02-06-03, 04:49 PM
isn't shaytaans throne on the sea? i though the bermuda triangle was one possible location. i've heard rumours that people have seen snakes doing 'tawaaf' there
GenN
03-06-03, 07:50 AM
Salaam

Seven where did you get shaytaans throne bieng on the sea from? any hadith?

And muwawiyah PLEEEEEEEEEEEEase get me ref for your statment:

And many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam

I'd love to read up about that.

JKK

Oh and revoulution thanks, that was the hadith i was thinking about.

Wa salaam.
forever
03-06-03, 04:08 PM
ive heard that too - shaytaans throne is on the sea - im sure it is a hadith :confused: heard loads of people say it

maybe someone will know! :)
AbuMubarak
03-06-03, 04:10 PM
forever

there are many things that are said that are not true

i remember hearing, after you pray, fold your prayer rug or else shaytan will pray on it
thekid
03-06-03, 04:30 PM
as salaam alai kum

I like the one about the shaytan praying on your prayer rug. actually if you can get the shaytan to pray, it would be great. and that too on your prayer rug!!!!!!!!!:D
Revolution
03-06-03, 04:34 PM
lol@shaytan praying on your prayer rug.

People may think this is abit of a joke but it is said that there is not a single spot on this earth where Iblis has not prayed!

All that abadat gone to waste....in 1 moment of Pride and Haste. All that abadat yet forbidden from Paradise. Subhanallah.
thekid
04-06-03, 04:20 AM
As salaam alai kum

People may think this is abit of a joke but it is said that there is not a single spot on this earth where Iblis has not prayed!

From where did you get this bit of info?? Is there an authentic hadith about this??

Beware of weak and fabricated narrations attributed to the messenger of allaah.
forever
04-06-03, 10:28 AM
yep ive been told that too - folder the corner of your prayer mat when you not praying on it &if you not gonna put it away yet! :(

why are there so many fabrications?

:banghead:
ClashCityRocker
05-06-03, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Muawiyah1

And Clashcityrocker, can you give us your account of UFO experience if you dont mind.

it is horrible and I am not trying to kid you. I've had lots of surreal dreams/nightmares and every time I woke up I found marks and bruises on my body. It is horrible. I've experienced meeting Aliens, who were in the form of aliens but passed as angels, they claimed to be angels of Allah and they said the world will end someday and they said they were going to send Muslims and pious Christians and some other faithful followers to Heaven in spaceships. I experienced a horrible hairy creature that came into our house and attacked us and they tried to deface my copy of the Quran.

I remember many horrible accounts of evil and good aliens. Recently at my university whilst I was walking at 2 AM, I saw an UFO over a classroom building.

-CCR
Revolution
05-06-03, 09:12 PM
Dude are you serious? :confused:

I dont know about Ghost or UFO but that sounds like some serious physical abuse... consider keeping a base-ball bat ;) or non-lethals like Pepper-spray for self-defence.

Your dreams i cant help you with, there are some duaas i think you can recite and remember Allah before you go to sleep (and when you wake up) and you will be Fine. If you fear Allah you fear nothing else (men, mortals, angels, jinns, shaytan the lot have no effect except with His permission). Bruises on your body? Film Yourself!! - come on its not hard in this day and age... just use a comcorder or one linked up to your PC and watch what happens when u wake up... u may find you fell off your bed or you sleep walk?

"I experienced a horrible hairy creature that came into our house and attacked us and they tried to deface my copy of the Quran" - what kind of a creature? 4 legs? 2 legs? arms? If it had a Humanoid figure then you can bet it was a person in a costume (maybe a burgular?) - is your Quran gold-written or does it look valuable? How did this creature get IN? Did you lock the doors? do you live alone?... could it be someone playing a joke on you?

Why were you walking at 2AM ?

- u dont have to answer these questions for me...but for yourself otherwise you will be accused of being insane. There is a un-superstituous explanation to most things.
ClashCityRocker
05-06-03, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Revolution
... could it be someone playing a joke on you?

I sure hope not, or they'll be dead sorry!

-CCR
ClashCityRocker
05-06-03, 10:58 PM
I dont exactly go around telling people I saw this and that

otherwise I'm cracked

I used to recite duas, they never worked. Now that I've stopped saying duas, I've stopped recieving nightmares or waking dreams. I havent seen an UFO for a while either. :confused:

-CCR

Originally posted by Revolution
Dude are you serious? :confused:

I dont know about Ghost or UFO but that sounds like some serious physical abuse... consider keeping a base-ball bat ;) or non-lethals like Pepper-spray for self-defence.

Your dreams i cant help you with, there are some duaas i think you can recite and remember Allah before you go to sleep (and when you wake up) and you will be Fine. If you fear Allah you fear nothing else (men, mortals, angels, jinns, shaytan the lot have no effect except with His permission). Bruises on your body? Film Yourself!! - come on its not hard in this day and age... just use a comcorder or one linked up to your PC and watch what happens when u wake up... u may find you fell off your bed or you sleep walk?

"I experienced a horrible hairy creature that came into our house and attacked us and they tried to deface my copy of the Quran" - what kind of a creature? 4 legs? 2 legs? arms? If it had a Humanoid figure then you can bet it was a person in a costume (maybe a burgular?) - is your Quran gold-written or does it look valuable? How did this creature get IN? Did you lock the doors? do you live alone?... could it be someone playing a joke on you?

Why were you walking at 2AM ?

- u dont have to answer these questions for me...but for yourself otherwise you will be accused of being insane. There is a un-superstituous explanation to most things.
GenN
06-06-03, 07:17 AM
Salaam

These Shiites scholars who alleged to have received the invitation from their hidden imam are Sheikh Mufeed, Ishaq ibnu Yaqub etc. and you can find their accounts in the classical shiite work of Mafaatih al Jinaan,if i'm not mistaken.

JKK for that muwayaiyah, for some reason i didnt see your update earlier and ive seen all other updates on page 1 before :confused: I only noticed it when clashcity posted her answer about UFO experiences to you.

Wa salaam.
manowi
19-10-05, 09:56 AM
in the hadeeth of tamim ad-dari where it mentions about him meeting dajjal
it says after one month travelling in the sea... there IS an island about one months journey away from arabia and that island is the island of BRITAIN!
Mustafa83
19-10-05, 10:16 AM
the dajjil lives in europe and the burmuda triangle was a reptillian experiment gone wrong
MalikOne™
19-10-05, 11:01 AM
island of BRITAIN!

Yay the dajjal is Home :scratch: :eek3: :help: :mujahida::wavey:
Jawad Falak
19-10-05, 11:03 AM
Did you know that some people think that the Biblical/Quranic Gog and Magog (Hajuj wa Mahjuj) are Russia and China ? Since these two nations have their unique culture and history almost shutout from the rest of the World. Their Military is fearsome and their manpower is massive - equally the infamous war of Armageddon mentioned in the Bible and Hadith according to some Christians will be fought when the Jews try to re-establish their 3rd Temple and it will start world war 3 as the Arabs/Muslims fight the Jews ... America and the West will support Israel whereas Russia and China will join in on the other side or for their own intrests - leading to the Final Showdown.

How much truth there is in these theories and prophecies Allah only knows but what we do know is that In the END the Deen of Allah will be Supreme. Allahu Akbar! The Final Victory will be for the Believers.
I dont think so it is said when the yajooj majooj will be released they will not leave humans or other creatures alive and will cause the believers to be shut in their forts.These two are just a couple of big nations that are having trouble getting on their feet.
They alongwith the rest of the world are held hostage to fear from terrorism,nuclear war,economic meltdown,biochemical proliferation and crime.WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WHEN THE YAJOOJ MAJOOJ BREAK OUT!
rami.haddad
19-10-05, 12:37 PM
If you want to listen in details about the Dajjal as well as the hadith mentionned, go to this link and listen to the hereafter section (it is also in my signature).

http://www.eternalmultimedia.com/lecture_anwarawlaki_.html

The whole series touches your heart.
SoulAsylum
19-10-05, 12:42 PM
I get things touching the back of my neck......

Spooky........i dont know who it could be????????
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:26 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.

How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.

In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:32 PM
brother its not crap read surat kahf and youll see Allah (swt) talks about the gog an magog
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:33 PM
and being a muslim you are obligated to follow the quran and sunnah and how else do you folow the sunnah other than by hadith?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:35 PM
o yea one more thing for people who are scared of jinns, or are afraid the jinns may harm them there are so many duas, one is before you sleep you recite ayat al qursi from surat baqarah, and you recite the 3 last surahs in the quran three times and after each time you blow in your hands and pass it over your body, there are also many supplications you can find directly from the quran one that i say all the time is"rabbi a'outhou bika min hamazati shayateen, wa a'outhou bika rabi ain yahduroon.

hope this helps inshaallah
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:36 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.

How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.

In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?
just one more thing as your goal for ramdhan you should try your best to read the whole quran even in english this might help you understand alot.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:44 PM
and being a muslim you are obligated to follow the quran and sunnah and how else do you folow the sunnah other than by hadith?

The sunnah and the way we do prayers and wudou,I understand about that. They are customs in guiding us how to pray to the Lord.

As for hadiths,they are sayings and they could have been transformed or even made up along the way with men who had an agenda.

So why would God leave all that out of the Qur'an?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:49 PM
it is not "left ouT" of the quran the sahabas recorded these ways of the prophet, that is why we should follow the hadeeth but we have to be sure of the source for example bukhari and muslim both compilations of hadeeth and at the same time their source is guaranteed to be sahih, which is pure without being changes or corrupted you cannot follow any hadeeth you have to make sure the chain of narration is real.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:49 PM
brother its not crap read surat kahf and youll see Allah (swt) talks about the gog an magog

Can you please find me that surah where it mentions all that?My mom who has read the whole Qur'an has said there is nowhere in the Qur'an where it mentions about that the day the dwarfs open up the whole they are digging,it'll be Judgement Day. Then what will happen to that theory if instead the world ends because of an asteroid or even because of nuclear war?

About Yajooj and Majooj.......It just does not make logical sense to me. All these years they are digging up in the earth?Which is humanely impossible. So they are immortal?They were not mortals like us?

Even Prophet Muhammed (phub) who was a holy being died at the age of 63 because he got sick,he was mortal like the rest of us.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:52 PM
it is not "left ouT" of the quran the sahabas recorded these ways of the prophet, that is why we should follow the hadeeth but we have to be sure of the source for example bukhari and muslim both compilations of hadeeth and at the same time their source is guaranteed to be sahih, which is pure without being changes or corrupted you cannot follow any hadeeth you have to make sure the chain of narration is real.

But still...I can never know that they are authentic and real just because men gathered around and said which ones were real and which ones were not. That is why I just stick to the Qur'an...I believe that the only source of Qur'an should be Allah and no one else. That is just my personal take on it. anyone can say something is not corrupted and has not been tampered with. But how do we know that?Why should I believe the word of these men that say that about the hadiths?
Omar
19-10-05, 05:53 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.

How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.

In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?

ohh heres that story of the dwarfs u wanted

The Qur’an narrates this story saying: “They ask thee concerning Dhul-Qarnayn. Say, I will rehearse to you something of his story.‏ Verily we established his power on earth, and we gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed, until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: we said: O Dhul-Qarnayn (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness. He said: whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and he will punish him with a punishment unheard of (before). But whoever believes, and works righteousness, he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as we order it by our command. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun. (He left them) as they were: we completely understood what was before him. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. They said: O Dhul-Qarnayn the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them? He said: (the power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: Bring me blocks of iron. At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain sides, he said, blow (with your bellows) then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.‏ He said: this is a mercy from my Lord: but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, he will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.” (Al-Kahf: 83-97)
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:56 PM
:jkk: ^^

these hadeeth especially in sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are complied by men who studied islam so much, they went through a great deal to verify each chain of narration directly back to the sahaba's, that is why most mulims refer to these to books to quote any hadeeth they say.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:56 PM
ohh heres that story of the dwarfs u wanted

The Qur’an narrates this story saying: “They ask thee concerning Dhul-Qarnayn. Say, I will rehearse to you something of his story.‏ Verily we established his power on earth, and we gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed, until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: we said: O Dhul-Qarnayn (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness. He said: whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and he will punish him with a punishment unheard of (before). But whoever believes, and works righteousness, he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as we order it by our command. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun. (He left them) as they were: we completely understood what was before him. Then followed he (another) way, until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. They said: O Dhul-Qarnayn the Gog and Magog (people) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them? He said: (the power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): help me therefore with strength (and labor): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them: Bring me blocks of iron. At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain sides, he said, blow (with your bellows) then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.‏ He said: this is a mercy from my Lord: but when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, he will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.” (Al-Kahf: 83-97)

Thank you for the passage!

Where does it say they they are still digging up in the earth and when they get out they wil start eating people alive and it is Judgement Day?From reading the passage it seems like god punished them and by the likes of it they got killed off.
Omar
19-10-05, 05:56 PM
Can you please find me that surah where it mentions all that?My mom who has read the whole Qur'an has said there is nowhere in the Qur'an where it mentions about that the day the dwarfs open up the whole they are digging,it'll be Judgement Day. Then what will happen to that theory if instead the world ends because of an asteroid or even because of nuclear war?

About Yajooj and Majooj.......It just does not make logical sense to me. All these years they are digging up in the earth?Which is humanely impossible. So they are immortal?They were not mortals like us?

Even Prophet Muhammed (phub) who was a holy being died at the age of 63 because he got sick,he was mortal like the rest of us.

And brother I think you should start reading the quran yourself :) Take that quran form mummy and read it inshaAllah
Omar
19-10-05, 05:57 PM
Thank you for the passage!

Where does it say they they are still digging up in the earth and when they get out they wil start eating people alive and it is Judgement Day?From reading the passage it seems like god punished them and by the likes of it they got killed off.

That would be in the authentic hadith would you like me to quote them?
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 05:58 PM
:jkk: ^^

these hadeeth especially in sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are complied by men who studied islam so much, they went through a great deal to verify each chain of narration directly back to the sahaba's, that is why most mulims refer to these to books to quote any hadeeth they say.

But still to me there is so guarantee that they are the absolute truth and have not been tampered with.

There is a lot of imams and Muslim scholars out there that are corrupt. Just because they studied Islam and deem themselve as scholars does not mean they are pure and not corrupt. This is not for ALL,but surely some and a good number of them-they're learning of the Qur'an is just an interpretation of what the Qur'an means to them.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 05:59 PM
yes please read the quran, it will open up your eyes alot more and clarify alot of stuff.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:02 PM
Double post!Sorry.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:04 PM
That would be in the authentic hadith would you like me to quote them?

It is sister by the way. :)

But my argument is that it is not in the Qur'an....the hadith could be said to be authentic by people,but how do I know that?So that is why I do not believe it.

I am also just talking about logical sense. Two dwarfs after all these thousands of years are still digging up in the earth?They are not mortal like us?It just sounds like a mythical story to me. Even if Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) died like us and was morta like us. I do not see how these dwarfs would be given this power by God.Like I also mentioned....What would happen to that theory if instead an asteroid hit the earth and killed off humankind and instead even there was a nuclear war that wiped out the face of the earth?
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:05 PM
But still to me there is so guarantee that they are the absolute truth and have not been tampered with.

There is a lot of imams and Muslim scholars out there that are corrupt. Just because they studied Islam and deem themselve as scholars does not mean they are pure and not corrupt. This is not for ALL,but surely some and a good number of them-they're learning of the Qur'an is just an interpretation of what the Qur'an means to them.
if you live according to these guidlines you cannot be sure of anything, these great scholars went through all the work of making sure they are saheeh, brother ask any muslim and they will tell you that sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are... well sahih, are you saying that you do not belive in the 40 hadith qudsi and 40 hadith nabawi, all these hadith have the chain of narration, and most of the hadeeth come from sources close to the prophet for example Aisha (ra) his wife, and also Abu Huraira (ra) one of the sahaba's that used to follow him around recording his ways, how can you possible nullify this
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:13 PM
sister sorry :embar: its just hard to tell but if you read the last part of the ayat it tells you that they are diggin through the barrier and that Allah swt after a period of time will turn it to dust, and if Allah swt tells you about these creatures you cannot disbelieve in it, how about when Musa (as) parted the red sea with his rod, or when prophet Muhammed (saw) split the moon in half, or that yunus was swallowed by a whale and after repenting to Allah (swt) he was thrown unot the shore, or that Allah created Jinn out of smokeless fire and even the existence of angels, all this seems mystical , yet this is the beauty of Allah's powers, Allah can make anything possible. And it is not up to us to decide if we believe in it or not, once we make this shahadah anything that Allah says in the quran and all that the prophet (saw) did we have to obey and follow and believe, it is what makes us Muslims.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:13 PM
if you live according to these guidlines you cannot be sure of anything, these great scholars went through all the work of making sure they are saheeh, brother ask any muslim and they will tell you that sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are... well sahih, are you saying that you do not belive in the 40 hadith qudsi and 40 hadith nabawi, all these hadith have the chain of narration, and most of the hadeeth come from sources close to the prophet for example Aisha (ra) his wife, and also Abu Huraira (ra) one of the sahaba's that used to follow him around recording his ways, how can you possible nullify this

But my point is...That still does not guarantee the authenticity of hadiths. but to me the Qur'an is a different story. I believe in just believing in following the philosohpies of Islam and the Qur'an and why will I occupy myself with a bunch of mythical stories about dwarfs and Dajjal in hiding on this world?I just am fascinated and want to know why some will believe in these hadiths.

Even after Prophet Mohammed died....There was corruptions and mishandlings in the Islamic world. Especially after Caliph Omar died. Don't even get me started on the Ummayat period with all the corruption and mischief.

Even though Muslims speak in such a righteous tone about themselves. You need to look no further than today and see how corrupted the Islamic world is.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:15 PM
read the last thread i made, i wrote it before you typed the question:D
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 06:18 PM
sister sorry :embar: its just hard to tell but if you read the last part of the ayat it tells you that they are diggin through the barrier and that Allah swt after a period of time will turn it to dust, and if Allah swt tells you about these creatures you cannot disbelieve in it, how about when Musa (as) parted the red sea with his rod, or when prophet Muhammed (saw) split the moon in half, or that yunus was swallowed by a whale and after repenting to Allah (swt) he was thrown unot the shore, or that Allah created Jinn out of smokeless fire and even the existence of angels, all this seems mystical , yet this is the beauty of Allah's powers, Allah can make anything possible. And it is not up to us to decide if we believe in it or not, once we make this shahadah anything that Allah says in the quran and all that the prophet (saw) did we have to obey and follow and believe, it is what makes us Muslims.
But that is all it says.It only said digging,how does that go to them still digging in this earth?It does not mention that they will be digging in the earth for all this time and then when they come out they will start eating people and it will be Judgement Day.

As for the other things you mentioned,it is mentioned in the Qur'an. And they happened a LONG time ago...During the periods of when the prophets came down.

But now?Dwarfs digging through earth seems mythical to me.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:22 PM
sister again anything is possible when allah says it is, it is. and this started happening since the time of dhul qarnain, as did the dajjal locked away on and island waiting to be freed do you not believe in him either? or what about the return of Isa (as), and the so many signs of yawm al qiyamat such as the rising of the beast, the sun rising from the west, the dajjl, the gog and magog, the mahdi, all these seem mythical and yet Allah sawt guaranteed it happening.
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 06:27 PM
Noble Verses 18:83-110

83. They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain [or Dhul-qarnain]. Say, 'I will rehearse to you something of his story.'
84. Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
85. One (such) way he followed,
86. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: 'O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.'
87. He said: 'Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).
88. But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command.'
89. Then followed he (another) way,
90. Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.
91. (He left them) as they were: We completely understood what was before him.
92. Then followed he (another) way,
93. Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word.
94. They said: 'O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?'
95. He said: '(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:
96. Bring me blocks of iron.' At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, 'Blow (with your bellows)' Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: 'Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead.'
97. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.
98. He said: 'This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true.'
99. On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
100. And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,-
101. (Unbelievers) whose eyes had been under a veil from remembrance of Me, and who had been unable even to hear.
102. Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
103. Say: 'Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
104. Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?'
105. They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
106. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
107. As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, for their entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise,
108. Wherein they shall dwell (for aye): no change will they wish for from them.
109. Say: 'If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the words of my Lord, even if we added another ocean like it, for its aid.'
110. Say: 'I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is one God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.'
mansio
19-10-05, 06:28 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from

non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.
Omar
19-10-05, 06:33 PM
Sister also read around surat al-Anbiya' 21:96.....

94. Whoever works any act of righteousness and has faith,- His endeavour will not be rejected: We shall record it in his favour.

95. But there is a ban on any population which We have destroyed: that they shall not return,

96. Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

97. Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
Tin Tin
19-10-05, 06:44 PM
I dont think he is near the Bermuda Triangle.
TRANSWARP
19-10-05, 06:55 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from

non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.

And I feel sorry for the brain damaged chrstians like you, who will burn in hell for all eternity.
GothiKa
19-10-05, 07:06 PM
mansio likes to assert all the time. just ignore him
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 07:56 PM
sister again anything is possible when allah says it is, it is. and this started happening since the time of dhul qarnain, as did the dajjal locked away on and island waiting to be freed do you not believe in him either? or what about the return of Isa (as), and the so many signs of yawm al qiyamat such as the rising of the beast, the sun rising from the west, the dajjl, the gog and magog, the mahdi, all these seem mythical and yet Allah sawt guaranteed it happening.

I am just speaking of logical sense here. And still NOWHERE in the Qur'an does it suggest that they are digging in the earth waiting to get out and eat people for Judgement Day.

Nope...I do not believe that Dajjal is locked away on an island...I think the sun rising in the West is in the Qur'an,I'd have to make sure of that.

There is quite some interpretation about Jesus coming back...
8) Jesus (pbuh) would be one of the Signs of the Hour;

And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment: therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
Qur'an 43.61
http://www.al-qiyamah.org/

Of course I do not believe about the whole Mahdi nonsense. In the Surah Al-Qiyameh, there is no mention of the dwarrfs and even Dajjal on some random island or Mahdi. So my belief is that he is surely dead and was just a descendent of Prophet Mohammed(pbuh).
Mujaheedah
19-10-05, 07:58 PM
:start:
96. Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.
does this ayat not speak for itself?
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 08:07 PM
Sister also read around surat al-Anbiya' 21:96.....

94. Whoever works any act of righteousness and has faith,- His endeavour will not be rejected: We shall record it in his favour.

95. But there is a ban on any population which We have destroyed: that they shall not return,

96. Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

97. Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
Ok,still that does not say it means they are digging through the earth and that they are being let out for Judgement Day. It only says until they are let through their barrier.

How does a passage like that go to meaning they are gidding through in the earth and that when they come out,they will eat people and it is Day of Judgement?

Here is some info on Gog and Magog...
The tradition of Gog and Magog begins with cryptic Biblical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible) references regarding apocalyptic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse) prophecy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy) in the Book of Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ezekiel) and the Book of Revelation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation). The ambiguity of this tradition cannot be overstated. The very nature of these entities differs greatly in the discourse, according to the places and times of the sources, and they are variously presented as human beings, as supernatural beings (giants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants) or demons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demons)), as nations, and as lands (Magog being often interpreted as the land of Gog). They are mentioned in the Qur'an (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur%27an) as Yajooj-Majooj (or Yecüc-Mecüc in the Turkish spelling) and occur widely in mythology and folklore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

Obviously, the Gog and Magog are biblical and quranic stories that have been taken way out of context and stretched out. In so many different cultures, they are assignment different stories and myths about Gog and Magog.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 08:10 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from

non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.
Actually, that is what I am trying to discuss here....How these tales are not even in the Qur'an and that they have been taken out of context by followers of these faiths.
Seeker_of_Truth
19-10-05, 08:15 PM
Also,about Mahdi...supposedly he was the 12th Imam and dissappeared. I am sunni so I have a different set of beliefs about it and I do not believe that imams are infallible.

So my question to those who believe that Mahdi is coming back....why would he be considered the saviour to come back?How could he be not dead if he was mortal like the rest of us?Where does it even mention his name in the Qur'an?
ur_yusra
19-10-05, 08:22 PM
Frankly speaking i also believe that the Dajjal is locked up somewhere in the Bermuda triangle.It is an established fact that the 12 Imam of the Shi'ites is the Dajjal. (http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/azarinni/hum.htm)And many Shi'ite scholars in Iraq and elsewhere claim that they had invitations from this 12th Imam and when they went to visit him, they found that they were brought somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle in order to meet their 12 imam. They found him with a huge army of Jinns[could be shayteen] who took orders from him. wallahu Al'aam

Noway??? :S
Aasiya
19-10-05, 08:41 PM
This is all very compelling.
.: Rashid :.
19-10-05, 09:16 PM
May Allah guide you ukhti...

Anyone wanna go to the bermuda triangle and find out if he really is there? Come on, it'll be fun :D

-Rashid
Omar
19-10-05, 09:22 PM
May Allah guide you ukhti...

Anyone wanna go to the bermuda triangle and find out if he really is there? Come on, it'll be fun :D

-Rashid

And we can follow the yellow brick road :D

The journey might be fun...Finding him wont be :p
.: Rashid :.
19-10-05, 09:25 PM
And we can follow the yellow brick road :D

The journey might be fun...Finding him wont be :p

lol...he's chained up ;) We can point at him and laugh, and he can't do anything to us :D

Better yet...we could try to torture him, or kill him, as pre-revenge for all the chaos and mayhem he'll spread...? :badguy:

-Rashid
Abdulhameed
19-10-05, 11:54 PM
Oh please...I just don't know my some Muslims believe in this crap. Same story wit hthose dwarfs digging up in the earth and when they open up the hole and get it,it will be Judgement Day.

How the heck do we know this?Just because of some hadiths???Are these hadiths even authentic?My motto is,if it doesn't say it in the Qur'an,then I will not believe it.

In the Qur'an, my mom tells me that she hasn't came upon a surah that even says Jesus is coming back. But my dad says there is. So,can someone tell me if there is a surah in the Qur'an that talks of Jesus's return?

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
33:21

"Say: Obey Allah and obey the messenger. But if ye turn away, then (it is) for him (to do) only that wherewith he hath been charged, and for you (to do) only that wherewith ye have been charged. If ye obey him, ye will go aright. But the messenger hath no other charge than to convey (the message) plainly. "
24:54

Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you.Those who believe and do good works, for them is pardon and a rich provision.
22:50

Did not the prophet (pbuh) warn us against the dajjal and yagog and magog in the hadeeths posted by the brothers/sisters?

Futhermore My Question is how can you obey these two commands from Allah in the Quran, without the sunnah. Will you make it up yourself, since the quran does not mention how to pray, how to make wudu etc?

btw the quran does mention Gog and Magog in numerous places :

"They said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them?"
18:94

"And there is a ban upon any community which We have destroyed: that they shall not return .Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose, and they hasten out of every mound. And the True Promise draweth nigh; then behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! (They say): Alas for us! We (lived) in forgetfulness of this. Ah, but we were wrong-doers!"
21:95-97

I sincerely suggest that you take a course on hadeeth compilation, and learn about the great lengths and pain taken by those who loved Allah and His messenger to compile it and transfer it.

I am also just talking about logical sense. Two dwarfs after all these thousands of years are still digging up in the earth?They are not mortal like us?It just sounds like a mythical story to me. Even if Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) died like us and was morta like us.

"He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned"
21:23

I do not see how these dwarfs would be given this power by God.Like I also mentioned....What would happen to that theory if instead an asteroid hit the earth and killed off humankind and instead even there was a nuclear war that wiped out the face of the earth?

Its in the Quran. period. Are you telling us know that you doubt the quran ontop of doubting the sunnah???

The sunnah does not reach the level of authenticity of the quran because the quran is incurruptable. But know this, the Quran as much as it is from Allah The Almighty, can be interpreted by men into their own desires, what the sunnah does is confirm the quran by showing us how the prophet applied the deen, and by extension how we should. Therefore if like these " liberal" muslims wanted to re-interpret the quran, nothing can stop them except for the fact that the prophet did not interpret it that way and thus you go against the verse
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
33:21".

Therfore the sunnah is crucial and was transmitted through the efforts of men for the sake of Allah in accordance with the prophets acts, therefore if a hadeeth contradicts the quran it is null and void. THe Quran is always first, but the sunnah is there to tell us exactly , emphatically, specifically how to apply the quran without any room for misguidance.

Consider this my friend, The Quran does not mention the existnce of just for example, the ducked billed platypus specifically, nor did it mention, elastic bands, if we take your logic, these things are false and should not exist since the quran does not mention them.

After all of this you have no excuse to disbelieve in the existence of Gog and Magog, as well as the dajjal since the quran mentions them and even if it doesnt the sunnah does. Bear this in mind, if the quran does not mention something that the sunnah does and vice versa it is not false, so long as it is in the other.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 01:49 AM
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
33:21

Futhermore My Question is how can you obey these two commands from Allah in the Quran, without the sunnah. Will you make it up yourself, since the quran does not mention how to pray, how to make wudu etc?
The sunnah are customs of the Prophet and the sayings and doings of the Prophet. I am Sunni myself so I do not follow the sayings and doings of imams,they are nonsense to me. So,I only follow the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). The difference is that the sunnah and hadiths are two different things. Hadiths are collections of narrations and approvals. So I believe in the sunnah of the Prophet in which they are his customs. Also, as for the hadiths...I tend to follow only the ones the Prophet said and I'd have to find if they are authentic. I do not believe in the hadiths of imams and others.

btw the quran does mention Gog and Magog in numerous places :

"They said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them?"
18:94

"And there is a ban upon any community which We have destroyed: that they shall not return .Until, when Gog and Magog are let loose, and they hasten out of every mound. And the True Promise draweth nigh; then behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! (They say): Alas for us! We (lived) in forgetfulness of this. Ah, but we were wrong-doers!"
21:95-97

I sincerely suggest that you take a course on hadeeth compilation, and learn about the great lengths and pain taken by those who loved Allah and His messenger to compile it and transfer it.
I know about Gog and Magog in the Qur'an...Even the Christians and in the Book of Revelations they believe that they will come back on Earth and it will be the apocalypse. It is just that I have asked to show me WHERE in the Qur'an it implies that they are digging through earth,and when they get out that they will eat people alive and it will be Judgement Day. People just gave me some hadith some person said. Everyone has ignored this question of mine and just brings me a passage where it mentions their story. I know their story and that is not what I am asking for.

In sura Al-Qimayeh,it mentions all these things that will happen on judgement Day and nowhere does it mention Gog and Magog coming back and about Mahdi and Dajjal. Abu Hurrairah is the one who said he "heard" he Prophet talk about Dajjal. Sorry,I don't buy those hadiths. Dajjal is mentioned NOWHERE in the Qur'an.

So why would the Prophet mention Dajjal but he is mentioned NOWHERE in the Qur'an????It does not make sense to me. It looks like these hadiths were made up. Why is it that in all these surahs talking about Judegement Day and what will appear and happen, Dajjal,Gog and Magog and Mahdi are not mentioned????So why am I supposed to believe them because some "hadiths" say so?

Its in the Quran. period. Are you telling us know that you doubt the quran ontop of doubting the sunnah???
I KNOW that Gog and Magog is in the Qur'an,their story.

But as of now NO ONE has showed me where there is a passage in the Qur'an that talks that Dajjal is hiding on some island, that Gog and Magog will come back on Judgement Day and that Mahdi will be a saviour on Judement Day. So my point still stands firmly and no one has brought valid points to refute my claims.

The sunnah does not reach the level of authenticity of the quran because the quran is incurruptable. But know this, the Quran as much as it is from Allah The Almighty, can be interpreted by men into their own desires, what the sunnah does is confirm the quran by showing us how the prophet applied the deen, and by extension how we should. Therefore if like these " liberal" muslims wanted to re-interpret the quran, nothing can stop them except for the fact that the prophet did not interpret it that way...
Yes,what is in the Qur'an is in the Qur'an. The Qur'an can mean something different to different people. You cannot change around laws,BUT...it can mean different things to you.
I am not talking about the sunnah...I am talking about hadiths. How do I know that some hadiths in which the Prophet's companions were saying he said it were not misinterpreted or are even real?So,that is why I just follow the Qur'an's philosophies and teachings and not most of the hadiths.

Consider this my friend, The Quran does not mention the existnce of just for example, the ducked billed platypus specifically, nor did it mention, elastic bands, if we take your logic, these things are false and should not exist since the quran does not mention them.
Huh?That is illogical what you are stating. These things DO exist. They are concrete and tangible evidence.

What I am saying is why will I take the word of some hadiths about Dajjal,Gog and Magog and Mahdi on Jugdement Day when it is supposedly the companions of the prophet that said that the Prophet told them and even ones who say that I heard it from a friend of a friend of the Prophet?These things would surely be mentioned in the Qur'an as happening on Judegement Day if they were to be true. Why would God leave them out?

After all of this you have no excuse to disbelieve in the existence of Gog and Magog, as well as the dajjal since the quran mentions them and even if it doesnt the sunnah does. Bear this in mind, if the quran does not mention something that the sunnah does and vice versa it is not false, so long as it is in the other.
Nowhere does it mention Dajjal in the Qur'an,as it states here...

Chapter 9: The Menace of the Dajjal According to the Qur'an and Hadith:
As stated above,there is no mention of Dajjal in the Qur'an by this particular name. But in authentic hadith we are told that the recital of the chapter the Cave in the Qur'an is a remedy for the menace of Dajjal, and this particular chapter deals specially with Christianity and its false doctrines. The first and last ten verses of this chapter in particular deal with the beliefs and activities of the Christian nations. This clearly shows that according to the Qur'an, Dajjal menace is only another name for the predominance of the false doctrines of Christianity and the dominance of the materialistic outlook on life of the Western nations. In other words, what the hadith describes as the tribulation of Dajjal is nothing else but the predominance of the concept of life of the Christian West. The Books of Hadith proclaim with one voice that the tribulation of Dajjal is the greatest of all tribulations, so much so that a Muslim is taught to pray to God in his five daily prayers to be saved from being afflicted with the tribulations of the Dajjal: "O Allah! I seek refuge in Thee from the trial of al-Masih al-Dajjal."
http://aaiil.org/text/books/mali/gog/sgmnt2.shtml
He is only mentioned in "authentic" hadiths in which I don't take seriously.

So why would the Qur'an be silent on an event that is deemed to be as one of the greatest tribulations of Judgement Day for those who believe in those hadiths?
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 02:03 AM
Here is a take on what one brother said about Dajjal on another forum.I like his take on it..

MuslimZ
Now for some seriousness. My grandfather, a well learned man (alhamdulilah), talked about the issue of Dajjal. He says that most likely it is not entirely accurate.First of all, there is no mention of Dajjal in the Qur'an, and Allah is the most knowing. Secondly, the hadith that reports the talk of Dajjal was only reported by one sahabah, which is very strange because most ahadith that contained very important information were almost always reported by multiple sources. The hadith from the one sources cites a speech that the Prophet (saw) gave that lasted from Dhur to Maghrib. Over such a long period of time, it is doubtful that other sahabah, such as the prophet's wife, wouldn't have taken notes on something as monumental as the end to all mankind. However, as is obvious, there are many doubts on the issue of Dajjal, and it's best to simply not dwell on this.
rami.haddad
20-10-05, 04:09 AM
So,that is why I just follow the Qur'an's philosophies and teachings and not most of the hadiths.

Salam Aleikum brother,

This is wrong brother, Muslims follow the Quran AND the Sunna, BOTH not one or the other. It is very dangerous if you disregard the hadiths.

You are correct the dejjal is not mentionned in the Quran, but he IS mentionned in the hadiths. Furthermore all Prophets (peace be upon them) mentionned the dejjal. There are different theories on why he is not mentionned in the Quran.

Listen to this link, the section on the hereafter talks about the dejjal and why he is not mentionned in the Quran.

http://www.eternalmultimedia.com/lecture_anwarawlaki_.html
.: Rashid :.
20-10-05, 05:37 AM
So my point still stands firmly and no one has brought valid points to refute my claims.

I'll continue...May Allah guide you :)

BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, why do you pray like you do? Why do you perform wudhu, like you do? Why do you say te shahada, like you do? As far as I know, NONE of these things are EVER described in the Qur'an. Only in the sunnah and the hadith. Are you going to question these, too?

The imams which compiled the various hadith went through a lot of trouble to make sure they were authentic. I don't think you appreciate just how much. Do you think you have more knowledge of ahadith than them?

Shari'ah law is based upon the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sunnah, each in light of each other. As far as I know...denying the shari'ah (not contending one part of it, I mean actually completely denying it) is apostasy.

Jazakallah akhi abdulhameed for the post...I'm outta rep, or I would've repped you :)

-Rashid
mansio
20-10-05, 07:27 AM
It's astonishing in the XXIst century to see how gullible you are to believe in all those fairy tales.
The only answer you have is to send the sensible person to hell.
Do you realise what kind of image you give of Islam ?
To stick to those stories without questioning them is an act of mental cowardice.
The good news is that God is more reasonable than you are.
~Soul~
20-10-05, 07:35 AM
i heard that the bermuda triangle was a barrier between the jinn world and the human world
Bizza
20-10-05, 09:20 AM
Very intriguiging!

When it comes to the Bermuda Triangle, I personally think there's a massive amount of electromagnetism going on well below the sea! This could be like those mountains, that "pull" metallic object like cars up without having the engine on!

Dejaal is very real!
Even if it's not mentioned in the Quran itself.

Why do other religions talk about the "Anti-Christ" as well then?
Isn't there a common theme here?

Also adding to the separate issue of Dog & Magog, I thought they were held down by ZulKarneyn? Using iron to form some sort of barrier between 2 mountains on Earth?
Maybe an electro-magnetic force (due to the magnetic properties of iron(Fe)?

Maybe the "electrical/gravitational barrier" is what's holding them below the Earth?

But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?

Very intriguiging indeed!
~Soul~
20-10-05, 09:27 AM
gog and magog r tryna get out and one day they will and theyll eat evrythin and destruct evrythin

But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?
noo idea i just hope im not alive to see them
Lara's theme
20-10-05, 09:37 AM
gog and magog r tryna get out and one day they will and theyll eat evrythin and destruct evrythin

noo idea i just hope im not alive to see them

Please give us a break!
~Soul~
20-10-05, 09:38 AM
give u a break from wat :scratch:
from the truth?
SharifMahdi
20-10-05, 09:50 AM
on a slightly different note, and being totally serious

when we read about ya'jooj and ma'jooj, do you ever reflect that they are still alive and hidden somewhere on earth?

and if you read the hadiths, they speak of all of the destruction that they will do when they are released

yes, we should seek refuge from dajjal, after every salat, and then some

but it is an intriguiging subject, the companions would ask the prophet often about ad-dajjal

Hey,

Everyone already knows were ya'jooj' and ma'jooj' is hidden!
Its in these two mountains in syria were if anything fly above it falls
Read up on it!!

Salams

Ps. The dajaal cant be in bermuda.
He will emerge in the middle of syria and iraq
Mustafa83
20-10-05, 09:52 AM
i heard that the bermuda triangle was a barrier between the jinn world and the human world

thats what the "reptilian" is they are really jinns these people look like your average human being but inside they are really a lizard type creature. They use the burmuda triangle to access the lost city of atlantis. It was a experiment gone bad that created the gateway to the other deminsion.

picture of a reptilian/jinn

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6951/repsmall2rx.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/425/lizardman1lt.jpg

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/9186/vface9jl.jpg

suspected reptillians

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7347/lizardpeople0iv.jpg
SharifMahdi
20-10-05, 09:53 AM
Very intriguiging!

When it comes to the Bermuda Triangle, I personally think there's a massive amount of electromagnetism going on well below the sea! This could be like those mountains, that "pull" metallic object like cars up without having the engine on!

Dejaal is very real!
Even if it's not mentioned in the Quran itself.

Why do other religions talk about the "Anti-Christ" as well then?
Isn't there a common theme here?

Also adding to the separate issue of Dog & Magog, I thought they were held down by ZulKarneyn? Using iron to form some sort of barrier between 2 mountains on Earth?
Maybe an electro-magnetic force (due to the magnetic properties of iron(Fe)?

Maybe the "electrical/gravitational barrier" is what's holding them below the Earth?

But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?

Very intriguiging indeed!

Buddy "Gog and Magog" is not hibernating

They are working very hard everyday to get out!
They dig on the side of a mountain everyday
and then go to sleep without say Inshallah

So allah restores the mountain
so they do it over the next day

One day one of them will say inshallah and the work will be left alone
and they will be set free the next day!
Bizza
20-10-05, 11:34 AM
Buddy "Gog and Magog" is not hibernating

They are working very hard everyday to get out!
They dig on the side of a mountain everyday
and then go to sleep without say Inshallah

So allah restores the mountain
so they do it over the next day

One day one of them will say inshallah and the work will be left alone
and they will be set free the next day!

OK ...
What's with the Iron then?
Are these creatures using magnetic force?
rami.haddad
20-10-05, 01:27 PM
But what kind of creatures would they be to be hybernating for soooo long?

Listen to the link in my signature it describes the Gog and Magog, there are from the sons of Adam and are therefore human.
Salman Al-Farsi
20-10-05, 02:50 PM
When I hear about all those tales from the Quran, many of them borrowed from

non Muslim authors, I feel sorry for God that they are attributed to Him.

Good Bye.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 02:58 PM
I'll continue...May Allah guide you :)

BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, why do you pray like you do? Why do you perform wudhu, like you do? Why do you say te shahada, like you do? As far as I know, NONE of these things are EVER described in the Qur'an. Only in the sunnah and the hadith. Are you going to question these, too?

The imams which compiled the various hadith went through a lot of trouble to make sure they were authentic. I don't think you appreciate just how much. Do you think you have more knowledge of ahadith than them?

Shari'ah law is based upon the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sunnah, each in light of each other. As far as I know...denying the shari'ah (not contending one part of it, I mean actually completely denying it) is apostasy.

Jazakallah akhi abdulhameed for the post...I'm outta rep, or I would've repped you :)

-Rashid

It is sister by the way. :)

As I have mentioned,we need to put in place the difference between sunnah and hadith. As this definition implies...

Sunnah and Hadith

The Sunnah is the way or deeds of Muhammad in Sunni Islam, and the way or deeds of Muhammad and the twelve Imams in Shi'a Islam, while Hadith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith) is a collection of the narrations and approvals. The two words are interchangeable when referring to the Traditions, but actually there is a difference between the two. Hadiths are classified according their status, in relation to their texts (matn) and their chain of transmitters (isnad). Scholars of Hadiths have studied the Sunnah from their context (matn) as well as from their transmitters (isnad) in order to establish what is true and what is false from these hadiths. These were influential in the development of early Muslim philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_philosophy) and modern scientific citation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_citation).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah

So a Sunnah and Hadith are different.

Hadiths are like proverbs to me. That is why I don't take their authencity seriously. Even if Islamic scholars went through to research their supposed authenticity,they are like other proverbs and sayings. A lot of people out there claim something is authentic because they researched it,when infact it isn't. So that is why I only stick with the Qur'an which is said to be unchanged and not tampered with.

Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.

But the coming of Dajjal would be something of a great tribulation on the coming of Judgement Day...Why would God not mention him in the Qur'an?Look at all the other signs God talked about in the Qur'an of Judegement Day and then Dajjal is not even mentioned in there.

All those hadiths about Judgement Day seem like myths and stories to place fear into people. So I will just stick the Qur'an's signs about Judgement Day.

As I said even if the holy prophet was mortal and died like the rest of us. Gog and Magog and Dajjal would surely still not be alive...we are mortals and eventually die off.
rami.haddad
20-10-05, 03:50 PM
It is sister by the way. :)

As I have mentioned,we need to put in place the difference between sunnah and hadith. As this definition implies...

So a Sunnah and Hadith are different.

Hadiths are like proverbs to me. That is why I don't take their authencity seriously. Even if Islamic scholars went through to research their supposed authenticity,they are like other proverbs and sayings. A lot of people out there claim something is authentic because they researched it,when infact it isn't. So that is why I only stick with the Qur'an which is said to be unchanged and not tampered with.

Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.

But the coming of Dajjal would be something of a great tribulation on the coming of Judgement Day...Why would God not mention him in the Qur'an?Look at all the other signs God talked about in the Qur'an of Judegement Day and then Dajjal is not even mentioned in there.

All those hadiths about Judgement Day seem like myths and stories to place fear into people. So I will just stick the Qur'an's signs about Judgement Day.

As I said even if the holy prophet was mortal and died like the rest of us. Gog and Magog and Dajjal would surely still not be alive...we are mortals and eventually die off.

Who said that Dajjal cannot be still alive, Saidna Noh (peace be upon him) lived more then 950 years. Who said there can't be long-lived humans?

Anyways I agree with the statement:

BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, why do you pray like you do? Why do you perform wudhu, like you do? Why do you say te shahada, like you do? As far as I know, NONE of these things are EVER described in the Qur'an. Only in the sunnah and the hadith. Are you going to question these, too?

The imams which compiled the various hadith went through a lot of trouble to make sure they were authentic. I don't think you appreciate just how much. Do you think you have more knowledge of ahadith than them?

Shari'ah law is based upon the Qur'an, the hadith, and the sunnah, each in light of each other. As far as I know...denying the shari'ah (not contending one part of it, I mean actually completely denying it) is apostasy.

Again I repeat if you want to know Dajjel is not mentionned listen to the link in my signature.
Bubblegoose
20-10-05, 08:35 PM
Seek refuge in Allah from the trials of this life and the trials of the dajjal.

Seek refuge in Allah from the trails of the grave, the day of judgement and ultimately the hellfire.

Ask Allah for the forgiveness of yours sins, and for the sins of Ummah, past, present and those yet to come, and ask Allah to grant us all a lofty elevation within Jannat Ul Firdaus.
Abdulhameed
20-10-05, 09:11 PM
It is sister by the way. :)

As I have mentioned,we need to put in place the difference between sunnah and hadith. As this definition implies...

So a Sunnah and Hadith are different.

I agree with you, but are you aware that the sunnah is transfered to us through the hadeeth??? How would we know what the sunnah of the prophet is if we didnt have any hadeeth?? This is the point i think that you might have overlooked. You agree that the way to pray is in the sunnah, now the question is how did it reach us and how can we confirm that this is the correct way? The answer is through the hadeeth. So you cant follow the sunnah by rejecting the hadeeth as that is the form through which it is transferred.

Hadiths are like proverbs to me. That is why I don't take their authencity seriously. Even if Islamic scholars went through to research their supposed authenticity,they are like other proverbs and sayings. A lot of people out there claim something is authentic because they researched it,when infact it isn't. So that is why I only stick with the Qur'an which is said to be unchanged and not tampered with.

Ok since you seem to be so stuck on the possibility that it "might" be corrupted and thus worthy of being rejected, can you then please give us a few hadeeth that are false explan why, and then compare them with the multitude of hadeeth that are authentic. Im sure this wont be difficult since you seem so sure that the majority if not all hadeeth are false and worthy of rejection.

Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.
.
First of all this hadeeth was reported by one person directly from the prophet. Secondly in only 2 books, books of hadeeth-sahih bukhari and muslim- the dajjal is mentioned 118 times, so its not a unique hadeeth mentioned by one person in only one hadeeth book rather he is constantly mentioned in many more books. Finally do you not say in the tashahuud ( part of the salah where you move your fingers) that you seek protection in Allah from the dajjal? I dont see how you can accept the way the prophet prays ( which includes mention of the dajjal) and yet still reject his existence
replicate
20-10-05, 09:28 PM
On being asked as to when Dajjal will appear. A scholar responded, the time for his appearance is for Allah to decide, pray that he doesn't appear in your lifetime. How true.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 11:00 PM
Who said that Dajjal cannot be still alive, Saidna Noh (peace be upon him) lived more then 950 years. Who said there can't be long-lived humans?
Noah was holy and a prophet. Dajjal and Magog and Gog are not. At that time also, these things seemed to happen in Prophet era times. Now?Nope,I do not believe it can't happen.

Still no one has showed me why I should believe in Dajjal. As I can see from the Qur'an, God never even metnioned him.
Marwan
20-10-05, 11:24 PM
There's only one Bermuda triangle and I'm currently logged into it.
Seeker_of_Truth
20-10-05, 11:25 PM
I agree with you, but are you aware that the sunnah is transfered to us through the hadeeth??? How would we know what the sunnah of the prophet is if we didnt have any hadeeth?? This is the point i think that you might have overlooked. You agree that the way to pray is in the sunnah, now the question is how did it reach us and how can we confirm that this is the correct way? The answer is through the hadeeth. So you cant follow the sunnah by rejecting the hadeeth as that is the form through which it is transferred.
I did not say I dismiss all hadiths. Those hadiths in talking about the way we do wudu and pray are customs and sunnah. Things about Dajjal and Gog and Magog are not customs, they are stories and "supposed" prophecies on what will happen on Judgement Day.

Ok since you seem to be so stuck on the possibility that it "might" be corrupted and thus worthy of being rejected, can you then please give us a few hadeeth that are false explan why, and then compare them with the multitude of hadeeth that are authentic. Im sure this wont be difficult since you seem so sure that the majority if not all hadeeth are false and worthy of rejection.
Ok,I'll give one example....The hadiths of how to pray and wudu are true to me because they are customs and a way taken from the Prophet in how to pray. Everyone prayed like him so that is I know it is true.

As for hadiths on Dajjal and those other mythical stories...I will not believe them because there is no way why I should believe them. It is only where it is said that they heard it from the Prophet. So it is hearsay. As I have mentioned before of why the Dajjal one is fake.Here is a repeat of what I wrote.Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.

There is also ridiculous hadiths out there like the one in which it says if a wife refuses to have intercourse with her husband when he asks,then she is doomed to hell. What a ridiculous piece of crock!And some people actually believe it because supposedly it is true.

So if you people believe most of these hadiths with mythical stories like Dajjal and Magog and Gog then how come you don't believe other things that people said they researched very well and say are true?What do you base these hadiths to be true on?Just because someone collected and is deemed a scholar?How can anyone assure the reliability and authenticity of these mythical hadiths?They even sound ridiculous!Dajjal chained on an island?Gog and Magog digging in earth?I guess Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real too.

First of all this hadeeth was reported by one person directly from the prophet. Secondly in only 2 books, books of hadeeth-sahih bukhari and muslim- the dajjal is mentioned 118 times, so its not a unique hadeeth mentioned by one person in only one hadeeth book rather he is constantly mentioned in many more books. Finally do you not say in the tashahuud ( part of the salah where you move your fingers) that you seek protection in Allah from the dajjal? I dont see how you can accept the way the prophet prays ( which includes mention of the dajjal) and yet still reject his existence
The hadiths about Dajjal originated from Abu Hurairah.And Jabir bin Abdullah said that he heard of about Dajjal from Umar bin-Al-Khatab,which is obviously not from the prophet.
http://www.islammessage.com/bb/lofiversion/index.php/t601.html

You see how they are transmitted from a friend of a friend?

And still,no one has mentioned to me why Dajjal would be left out of the Qur'an, in which would be a great revelation and Qur'anic prophecy of the Qur'an. And I am talking about these kind of hadiths. Why do people keep mentioning about the prayer and wudu hadiths? I believe those...Those are hadiths in which are CUSTOMS and how to pray to God. And people prayed at the time of Prophet Mohammed and thus of course we took on these customs. These other mythical hadiths are not sunnah like prayers as they are proverbs, sayings and made up stories.
rami.haddad
21-10-05, 02:55 AM
The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.

There is also ridiculous hadiths out there like the one in which it says if a wife refuses to have intercourse with her husband when he asks,then she is doomed to hell. What a ridiculous piece of crock!And some people actually believe it because supposedly it is true.

Salam Aleikum brother,

First, I advise you to research the topic before making your strict judgements. In Islam you are not allowed to deny neither the Coran or the Sunnah. The Sunnah does not only consist of how to pray and how to do wudu, it consists of advises, situations and stories where lessons are to be taken from them.

The vast majority of the ulemas and the umma agree that there are strong hadiths and weak hadiths. Those strong hadiths are to be taken as you take the Coran the Word of Allah. To obey Allah you must obey Allah's Messengers (peace be upon them all).

Now if the vast majority of muslims around the world take and accept those hadiths, then on what basis do you deny them? What studies or basis is your denying based upon?

There are several theories on why the dejjal is not mentionned in the Coran. Again those reasons are discussed in the link in my signature. The discussion on the hereafter.

However again I warn you brother and this is a sincere warning, do research on the subject, you cannot deny the hadiths as you are doing, especially the hadiths that the majority of the ulemas have rated as strong.
Abdulhameed
21-10-05, 03:05 AM
I did not say I dismiss all hadiths. Those hadiths in talking about the way we do wudu and pray are customs and sunnah. Things about Dajjal and Gog and Magog are not customs, they are stories and "supposed" prophecies on what will happen on Judgement Day.

So you reject the statement of the prophet of Allah because they discuss things you feel are hard to believe

Ok,I'll give one example....The hadiths of how to pray and wudu are true to me because they are customs and a way taken from the Prophet in how to pray. Everyone prayed like him so that is I know it is true.

So what you're telling me now is that you pray the way you do, not based on any hadeeth but soley on the way others do?? What if everyone prayed by jumping up and down and they claimed the prophet did the same, then you would be forced to do the same. Does not everyone believe in the authenticty of hadeeth and the existence of the dajjal, so by the same vein , follow everyone. What I want to know is, how do you know the way you pray is taken from the prophet?? There are many sects which pray their own way, yet each claims to follow the prophet.

As for hadiths on Dajjal and those other mythical stories...I will not believe them because there is no way why I should believe them. It is only where it is said that they heard it from the Prophet. So it is hearsay. As I have mentioned before of why the Dajjal one is fake.Here is a repeat of what I wrote.Usually, the hadiths also...They are said to have been said by the Prophet by MANY of the Prophet's friends. The Dajjal hadith was said through only ONE friend of the Prophet who supposedly heard it. The speech was said from afternoon till evening and only ONE friend heard it?Surely, other friends of the Prophet would have taken down this Islamic revelation or written it or even more of the friends would have heard it than one because of the big tenacity of the revelation.

Here is where you make a very broad generalization. A hadeeth is not judged soley on the quantity of narrators but the quality.

[/quote]

There is also ridiculous hadiths out there like the one in which it says if a wife refuses to have intercourse with her husband when he asks,then she is doomed to hell. What a ridiculous piece of crock!And some people actually believe it because supposedly it is true.

What do you base this on? It is not enough that you feel aversion to this that it is automatically fake and fabricated. Do not let your emotions blind you to the science of hadeeth. IF something does not appeal to you, do not dismiss it out of hand.

So if you people believe most of these hadiths with mythical stories like Dajjal and Magog and Gog then how come you don't believe other things that people said they researched very well and say are true?What do you base these hadiths to be true on?Just because someone collected and is deemed a scholar?How can anyone assure the reliability and authenticity of these mythical hadiths?They even sound ridiculous!Dajjal chained on an island?Gog and Magog digging in earth?I guess Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are real too.

Again you are blinded by your emotions sister, just because something may sound ridiculous is not enough to qualify it as a fake. Do research do not dismiss everything out of hand which is what you seem to be doing. The hadeeths are based to be true based on many conditions most of which im not qualified to talk about, one of which is the quality of the narrators. IF you want to verify them, learn the science of hadeeth, and you will know if it is fake or not. Do not just dismiss them and be careful of what you say. You mock the prophet and the revelation of Allah by comparing it to the lies of the kuffar.

The hadiths about Dajjal originated from Abu Hurairah.And Jabir bin Abdullah said that he heard of about Dajjal from Umar bin-Al-Khatab,which is obviously not from the prophet.
http://www.islammessage.com/bb/lofiversion/index.php/t601.html

You see how they are transmitted from a friend of a friend?

How do you know that this is not from the prophet, on what basis besides the number of companions who narrate about hte dajjal ( which you are wrong about) do you base this on?

Narrated Asma:

I came to 'Aisha while she was praying, and said to her, "What has happened to the people?" She pointed out towards the sky. (I looked towards the mosque), and saw the people offering the prayer. Aisha said, "Subhan Allah." I said to her, "Is there a sign?" She nodded with her head meaning, "Yes." I, too, then stood (for the prayer of eclipse) till I became (nearly) unconscious and later on I poured water on my head. After the prayer, the Prophet praised and glorified Allah and then said,

"Just now at this place I have seen what I have never seen before, including Paradise and Hell. No doubt it has been inspired to me that you will be put to trials in your graves and these trials will be like the trials of Masiah-ad-Dajjal or nearly like it (the sub narrator is not sure which expression Asma' used). You will be asked, 'What do you know about this man (the Prophet Muhammad)?' Then the faithful believer (or Asma' said a similar word) will reply, 'He is Muhammad Allah's Apostle who had come to us with clear evidences and guidance and so we accepted his teachings and followed him. And he is Muhammad.' And he will repeat it thrice. Then the angels will say to him, 'Sleep in peace as we have come to know that you were a faithful believer.' On the other hand, a hypocrite or a doubtful person will reply, 'I do not know, but I heard the people saying something and so I said it.' (the same). "

JUst one example out of many that all the hadeeths about the dajjal are narrated by two people. LIke I mentioned I know of atleast 117 others.

And still,no one has mentioned to me why Dajjal would be left out of the Qur'an, in which would be a great revelation and Qur'anic prophecy of the Qur'an.

Allah knows best. How can you question Allah and His messenger. Allah chose to leave alot of things out of the quran for which he left in the sunnah of his messenger, but i dont see you questioning that. YOu just base your ridicule on things which sound ridicuouls to you, Sister dont take islam in pieces take it all, or not at all.

And I am talking about these kind of hadiths. Why do people keep mentioning about the prayer and wudu hadiths? I believe those...Those are hadiths in which are CUSTOMS and how to pray to God. And people prayed at the time of Prophet Mohammed and thus of course we took on these customs.
[/quote]

WEll you how do you know that people, like the hadeeths you claim have not also been corrupted and have been praying wrong?? How do you know those customs, like the sayings of the prophet have not also been altered. The problem begins when you question one thing you question everything.

These other mythical hadiths are not sunnah like prayers as they are proverbs, sayings and made up stories.[/QUOTE]

Do not ridicule the prophet. Take the whole thing and as Allah says : enter into islam fully. and dont be like the people of the book that took part of the revelation whether it be in the holy books or in the sayings of the prophets and rejected part of it .TO conclude, islam is not a buffet to choose and pick what appeals to you. I hope I didnt offend oyu or seem like im ridiculing you but if i came across that way, i sincerely apologize.

PS
THe salah which youpractise mentions to seek protection from the dajjal ( which you deem a fairy tale) in the tashahud. If the salah is acceptable so should hte dajjal. If you disbelieve in the dajjal, thne you should also believe that the salah is wrong, and thats gonna lead into a spiral of rejection and maybe kufr or nifaaq so be ware my sister.
.: Rashid :.
21-10-05, 05:03 AM
Give up on her...by arguing, I think you're only making her doubts worse :) I don't think she realises the magnitude of her denial...

May Allah guide the Ummah. Ameen.

-Rashid
Neyzen
21-10-05, 09:03 AM
lets go bermuda triangle to kill dajjal then :D
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 05:03 PM
Salam Aleikum brother,

First, I advise you to research the topic before making your strict judgements. In Islam you are not allowed to deny neither the Coran or the Sunnah. The Sunnah does not only consist of how to pray and how to do wudu, it consists of advises, situations and stories where lessons are to be taken from them.
It is sister by the way. :) I have had to point that out so many times.Do I sound like a man?*lol*

First off, I researched this that is why I do not believe the Dajjal hadiths. I will not go and believe ANYTHING just because it is said it is researched ad that means that it is authentic. ANYONE could say that about their work.

WHERE did I said I denied the Qur'an?I am showing everyone what no one has proven to me to be wrong, that Dajjal is NOT mentioned in the Qur'an.Some people will believe ALL the hadiths. Only a certain few are probably true and real.But ones of Dajjal,Gog and Magog, nope I will not believe those because they are ridiculous.

The vast majority of the ulemas and the umma agree that there are strong hadiths and weak hadiths. Those strong hadiths are to be taken as you take the Coran the Word of Allah. To obey Allah you must obey Allah's Messengers (peace be upon them all).
Why should I take the hadiths considered to be "strong" as the same weight as the Qur'an???

The Qur'an is our holy book...the hadiths are not. I am sure some hadiths are infact real, but I believe most are not. I am not going to follow something which has been interpreted and misquoted and mistreated by religious scholars. They disagree with each other to this day. When you have people researching and interpreting things their way, obviously what they find will be their OWN opinion and biases and research about it which can be different from another. That is why some hadiths are considered weak or strong.

The Holy Qur'an claims legitimacy for itself and within itself. Who are self-made priests, or religious leaders to take only their word for hadiths?How do I know that they did not misinterpret and misquote the Book of God for personal gain?

As these following surahs imply...
“'Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?'” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt." (The Message 6:116)
"Say: 'Which is the greatest testimony?' Say: 'God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!' Say: 'I do not bear witness!' Say: 'He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!'” (The Message 6:21)

"And We have come to them with a Scripture which We have detailed with knowledge; a guide and a mercy to those who believe." (The Message 7:52)

"We have revealed to you the Scripture with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous. " (The Message 4:105)

"And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered." (The Message 16:90)

"And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute." (The Message 5:51)

Now if the vast majority of muslims around the world take and accept those hadiths, then on what basis do you deny them? What studies or basis is your denying based upon?
Millions of followers out there follow Christianity and hadiths of that religion-same with Judaism,Buddhism,etc...Does that mean because millions follow it I have to?The relationship between God and I is only between Him and I,and no one else can interfere in it. I just cannot believe some of you are so judgemental and are claiming that what I am doing is "un-Islamic" because I do not follow most of the hadiths,or some mythical hadith like the one about Dajjal. Who is ANYONE to judge me and tell me it is "un-Islamic"? Only Allah can be the judge of that.

There are several theories on why the dejjal is not mentionned in the Coran. Again those reasons are discussed in the link in my signature. The discussion on the hereafter.
Well,these are just "theories" as you have stated. I believe that the Qur'an is detailed and fulfilled itself and complete in itself. That is why Dajjal is not mentioned there, because it has no basis in which Allah would not put in the Qur'an a great tribulation of such magnitude as that one. You read ALL the other signs he mentioned in the Qur'an and then Dajjal would be left out? That makes no sense.

However again I warn you brother and this is a sincere warning, do research on the subject, you cannot deny the hadiths as you are doing, especially the hadiths that the majority of the ulemas have rated as strong.
As I have stated before,I have researched them and that is the conclusion I came to.Yes,I can deny them...I will not believe anything just because it is said they are authentic because some religious scholars interpret them to be. Then that means we should believe in Darwinism, or other things because they are said to have been researched and to be authentic.
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 05:37 PM
So you reject the statement of the prophet of Allah because they discuss things you feel are hard to believe
Statements that religious scholars felt were real?

I am not rejecting statements of the Prophet....I follow the Qur'an and the Prophets teachings and what he has revealed through the Qur'an being revealed through him in which is in the Holy Book itself.Not things that are said to be true by some religious scholars because of their research and interpretation. That is TWO different things.

As I have clearly stated...Some hadiths can be real,but I believe most of them are hearsay such as the ones about Gog and Magog and Dajjal.

So what you're telling me now is that you pray the way you do, not based on any hadeeth but soley on the way others do?? What if everyone prayed by jumping up and down and they claimed the prophet did the same, then you would be forced to do the same. Does not everyone believe in the authenticty of hadeeth and the existence of the dajjal, so by the same vein , follow everyone. What I want to know is, how do you know the way you pray is taken from the prophet?? There are many sects which pray their own way, yet each claims to follow the prophet.
That is the sunnah and that is what I pray as the same as the Prophet because it is clear to me that is what we did because it has been a custom that has been taken from him as the sunnah implies. These sunnah are stating what to do when we pray...And yes,different sects pray different ways in Islam..We are not to judge which one is right.I am sure as long as you pray God accepts that.

So just because religious scholars have implied some of hadiths about Dajjal to be true, then you should believe. As you have given with your example, if some religious scholar came and said,and others agreed with him,that you have drink water 8 cups a day then it means FOR SURE it is authentic and that the prophet said it?

Millions of people around the world follow a certain lifestyle and certain aspects of their beliefs,it doesn't I have to. If millions jump off a bridge because they believe their Messiah told them to, doesn't mean I will believe in it too.

As I stated to the other man I replied to, the relationship between me and God is only between Him and I and no one can interfere in it. HE is my judge and no one else.

Here is where you make a very broad generalization. A hadeeth is not judged soley on the quantity of narrators but the quality.
Quality?and what does that prove?I'd rather believe something in which MANY people have witnessed or heard than one person who claims he did.

What do you base this on? It is not enough that you feel aversion to this that it is automatically fake and fabricated. Do not let your emotions blind you to the science of hadeeth. IF something does not appeal to you, do not dismiss it out of hand.
Feel?So you do not believe the hadiths based on your feelings of trusting these religious scholars in concluding they are real?

Nope,it is not what about if it does not appeal to me...Isi t about knowing for myself and seeing the science if something is real or not. If the sky is blue I cannot not go ahead and believe it because I wish the sky were the colour of pink.

Why I do not believe the Dajjal hadiths is because he is not mentioned ONCE in the Qur'an in which a great tribulation about Judgement Day of that magnitude would be placed in the Qur'an. A Qur'anic prophecy of that magnitude would be in the Qur'an because the Qur'an is complete, detailed and fulfilled in itself.

Again you are blinded by your emotions sister, just because something may sound ridiculous is not enough to qualify it as a fake. Do research do not dismiss everything out of hand which is what you seem to be doing. The hadeeths are based to be true based on many conditions most of which im not qualified to talk about, one of which is the quality of the narrators. IF you want to verify them, learn the science of hadeeth, and you will know if it is fake or not. Do not just dismiss them and be careful of what you say. You mock the prophet and the revelation of Allah by comparing it to the lies of the kuffar.
As I have explained above why I do not believ the Dajal hadith which is not based on feelings.

Secondly, nope I am NOT mocking the prophet. How am I mocking the prophet?BEcause I am not believing a hadith that is said to be heard from a friend who heard it fro mthe Prophet or someone who heard it from Aisha herself?Nope. I'll stick the Qur'an about the signs of Judgement Day because as I have said the Qur'an is complete,detailed and fulfilled in itself.

How do you know that this is not from the prophet, on what basis besides the number of companions who narrate about hte dajjal ( which you are wrong about) do you base this one?
Again,anyone and everyone could have said they heard it from Aisha or the prophet, it doesn't mean it is true. The Qur'an talks about everything of what will happen on Judgement Day.

Allah knows best. How can you question Allah and His messenger. Allah chose to leave alot of things out of the quran for which he left in the sunnah of his messenger, but i dont see you questioning that. YOu just base your ridicule on things which sound ridicuouls to you, Sister dont take islam in pieces take it all, or not at all.

God left NOTHING out of the Qur'an. He put EVERYTHING in there that we need to know as these surahs imply:
“'Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?'” Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt." (The Message 6:116)

"And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Scripture as a clarification for all things, and a guide and mercy and good tidings to those who have surrendered." (The Message 16:90)

Are you refuting these surahs in which it claims the Qur'an is complete,detailed and fulfilled in itself? A lot of these religious scholars base their findings on their OWN interpretations which can be different from someone else's. That is why not all religious scholars agree and disagree on many issues.

Allah DOES know best and is the knower of all things and he'd mention Dajjal and put it in the Qur'an wth a tribulation about Judgement Day of that magnitude.

WEll you how do you know that people, like the hadeeths you claim have not also been corrupted and have been praying wrong?? How do you know those customs, like the sayings of the prophet have not also been altered. The problem begins when you question one thing you question everything.
I explained that in my previous replies.

And you can QUESTION.There is nothing wrong with that as questionning is what reinforces your beliefs and gives you more wisdom.

Do not ridicule the prophet. Take the whole thing and as Allah says : enter into islam fully. and dont be like the people of the book that took part of the revelation whether it be in the holy books or in the sayings of the prophets and rejected part of it .TO conclude, islam is not a buffet to choose and pick what appeals to you. I hope I didnt offend oyu or seem like im ridiculing you but if i came across that way, i sincerely apologize.

PS
THe salah which youpractise mentions to seek protection from the dajjal ( which you deem a fairy tale) in the tashahud. If the salah is acceptable so should hte dajjal. If you disbelieve in the dajjal, thne you should also believe that the salah is wrong, and thats gonna lead into a spiral of rejection and maybe kufr or nifaaq so be ware my sister.
Again,I am not ridiculing the prophet. Everything else you mention I addressed it previously.

And when I pray I do NOT even mention Dajjal's name and it is not asking to seek protection from Dajjal.

I am sunni,so maybe you are from a different sect and seek protection from Dajjal in your prayers.
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 05:59 PM
maybe you should rethink what you are then because being sunni means you follow the quran and sunnah and where else do you get the sunah from other than from hadeeths?
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:07 PM
I also wanted to add...For those who believe God knows best and is all knowing,then why do we need another source of law BESIDES the Qur'an???

Would anyone like to refute these surahs???
"..........We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book." 6:38

"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:115

"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." 6:114, See also, 7:52, 11:1, 41:3, 10:37 and 12:111

"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near?Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" 7:185
(God has even implied here that the Qur'an is the BEST hadith and should be the only hadith)

"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by God, and do not agress; God dislikes the aggressors." 5:87

"Say, "Did you note how God sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did God give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to God?" 10:59

"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 17:36
(So,you should verify it for yourself!What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an. As I have mentioned the relationship between you and God is only between you and Him and no one else should interfere in it. Why take the word of religious scholars when God has told us to verify it for YOURSELF and you should take the Qur'an as it means to YOU. So who are the others in here telling me I am mocking the word of the prophet when infact they believe the findings of others?I will stick to believe what the Qur'an means to ME as God has said to verify it for myself since he gave me the ability to.)

And remember no one can judge you except for God himself.

Peace be upon all of you.
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:09 PM
maybe you should rethink what you are then because being sunni means you follow the quran and sunnah and where else do you get the sunah from other than from hadeeths?

I've been raised as Sunni cause that is what my parents have raised me. But I have been thinking about that lately. There should be no sects in Islam. I get confused sometimes about it.

Maybe I should refer myself as to not sunni,shia or anything else but just as a Muslim?
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 06:14 PM
yea i think there are too many sects also but just to remind you again being a mulsim als means following the ways of the prophet, when u make shahadah it means i bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammed(saw) is his messenger, The prophet was sent as an teacher to mankind, to teach us how to live the right way, we learn this from the hadeeth which were recorded by his close freinds and safely passed down generations intact, sister we can only peruade one so much the rest is up to you to think about what were trying to say. Inshaalah sooner rather than later you will realise the truth in what were trying to tell you because there is no way you can live according to the rules of Islam without going according to the guidlines of the hadeeth, And Allah guides whom he wills
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:17 PM
And I just wanted to add,it is unbelievable how sometimes Muslims disappoint. Some of them can be the most judgemental about others when GOD should and can be our only judge.

It is unbelievable how some others in here have been saying I am mocking the Prophet because I don't have the same certain beliefs as they do about the hadiths. Who are these people to imply this and judge me in this way?Allah only can.

I have never pointed out to others and told them they are mocking the prophet. I just have pointed out to why do they believe in these hadiths that I consider to be crap and a crock of nonsense. But if you believe in them, who am I to tell you, you are mocking the prophet and you are wrong?

I just came in here for a discussion in knowing why you believs these hadiths and wanted to have a respectful discussion about the Dajjal and Gog and Magog hadiths and show my point of view on why I disagree with them. We may all have different points of views but we should not tell each other who is right and who is wrong for only God is the judge of that.

Sorry to say that I have been dissappointed.

I am a Muslim and none of words can change that. I love Allah and He knows.He knows i am grateful for him. That is all that counts.
Seeker_of_Truth
21-10-05, 06:34 PM
yea i think there are too many sects also but just to remind you again being a mulsim als means following the ways of the prophet, when u make shahadah it means i bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammed(saw) is his messenger, The prophet was sent as an teacher to mankind, to teach us how to live the right way, we learn this from the hadeeth which were recorded by his close freinds and safely passed down generations intact, sister we can only peruade one so much the rest is up to you to think about what were trying to say. Inshaalah sooner rather than later you will realise the truth in what were trying to tell you because there is no way you can live according to the rules of Islam without going according to the guidlines of the hadeeth, And Allah guides whom he wills
Being a Muslim means believing in Allah and following his message.

I have explained MANY times why I don't take a lot of the hadiths seriously. And that does not make me any less of a Muslim than anyone else who wants to believe in hadiths.

Yes,I,of course believe in the Prophet Mohammed..and he is the messenger of God and a prophet just like the shahadah implies and he is the messenger of God just like ALL the other prophets.

And I agree with this stance on Prophet Mohammed...
What is so sadly neglected is that the most critical aspects of the messenger’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner…not in the books of Hadith or tradition…but in the Holy Book itself.
...
Muhammed is represented only by the Quran. The Prophet Muhammed was the last Prophet and a messenger of God (33:40). He was not the messenger of God because of who he (Muhammed) was, but because he was given the Quran (the message) to deliver to the world. The religion of Islam is a religion of God, not about Muhammed, who was blessed by God with the delivery of the message of the Quran. He did not have an agenda of his own.

His job was to deliver to the world what God was giving him, the Quran. See 42:48, 13:40, 5:99-100, Muhammed cannot prohibit things, or make lawful things on his own. When he tried to do that God admonished him publicly, 66:1, 66:1 reminds us that God is the only ONE to prohibit or make things lawful.

So that is MY belief on it....And no one else can judge me on my part because of it. Let Allah be my judge.

I respect others and this is MY belief so who is anyone to degrade me for it?
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 06:44 PM
His job was to deliver to the world what God was giving him, the Quran. See 42:48, 13:40, 5:99-100, Muhammed cannot prohibit things, or make lawful things on his own. When he tried to do that God admonished him publicly, 66:1, 66:1 reminds us that God is the only ONE to prohibit or make things lawful. ?
subhanallah, of course Allah is the only one who could prohibit things or make them lawful, and the prophet (saw) was the best of manking an example for use to follow, and yes you do follow the quran and also the hadeeth, im pretty sure without following the hadeeth also there is no way you can live your life following the rules that we are suposed to follow. Sister if you do not believe in these signs of the day of judgement i can only tell you of the prophet (Saw)'s warning of the dajjal and the yagug and magug and all the others, again the rest is up to you but this time will come as promised by Allah (swt) May Allah guide us all closer to the right path.
Mujaheedah
21-10-05, 06:45 PM
and yes Allah alone can judge of for our actions and he will on the day of yawm al qiyamat.
Abdulhameed
21-10-05, 09:41 PM
I also wanted to add...For those who believe God knows best and is all knowing,then why do we need another source of law BESIDES the Qur'an???

"But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission. "
4:65

Would anyone like to refute these surahs???
"..........We did not leave ANYTHING out of this book." 6:38

[quote]
"The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." 6:115

This first verse does not speak about the quran we have but about the luh al mahfouz in which Allah has written everything. Obviously the quran does not include every single thing. It tells us most things we need to know in order to be successful and refers the rest to the sunnah as Allah the most wise has said Himself to follow the prophet:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
33:21

"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt." 6:114, See also, 7:52, 11:1, 41:3, 10:37 and 12:111

"Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near?Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?" 7:185
(God has even implied here that the Qur'an is the BEST hadith and should be the only hadith)

"O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by God, and do not agress; God dislikes the aggressors." 5:87

"Say, "Did you note how God sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did God give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to God?" 10:59

"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." 17:36
(So,you should verify it for yourself!What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an. As I have mentioned the relationship between you and God is only between you and Him and no one else should interfere in it. Why take the word of religious scholars when God has told us to verify it for YOURSELF and you should take the Qur'an as it means to YOU. So who are the others in here telling me I am mocking the word of the prophet when infact they believe the findings of others?I will stick to believe what the Qur'an means to ME as God has said to verify it for myself since he gave me the ability to.)

And remember no one can judge you except for God himself.

Peace be upon all of you.

PLease do not take the ayah out of context. The first verse does not speak about the quran we have but about the luh al mahfouz in which Allah has written everything. Obviously the quran does not include everything,. It tells us most things we need to know in order to be successful and refers the rest to the sunnah as Allah the most wise has said Himself to follow the prophet:

"But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission. "
4:65

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
33:21

Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
33:22

And obey Allah and the messenger, that ye may find mercy
3:132

These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success
4:13

And they say: We believe in Allah and the messenger, and we obey; then after that a faction of them turn away. Such are not believers.
24:47

The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful
24:51

By the Star when it setteth Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired.
53:1-4
First of all hadith in ayah 7 :185 does not mean the hadeeths of the prophet as the other verses say to obey Allah and His messenger.

How do you obey The prophet, if not through following his sunnah?How do you apply the sunnah without hadeeth?

If you reject all hadeeth, you reject the prophets sunnah, if you reject the sunnah you reject Allahs command.

Are you refuting these surahs in which it claims the Qur'an is complete,detailed and fulfilled in itself

Ofcourse not since the quran told us to obey the messenger several times and the hadeeth is the vehicle for doing it.

Finally, the statement that "What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an." is a very dangerous one. THis is what leads to division and this is not acceptable to Allah as He has specifically mentioned the example of the prophet as one that is acceptable to him and also said that he has completed your faith. IF everyone took the quran as their own interpreation there would be 1.5 billion interperations of islam today. Therefore if you bring anything after that that the prophet did not apply it is not acceptable to Allah.

TO conclude, wallahi my intention was not to insult you or to look down on you, but to try to correct your erro to the best of my ability. If I have offended you , I humbly apologize. But I find it more than a little irritating when something which is an established belief in islam is constantly called a fairy tale, or a load of crock or such. If you do not believe do not offend and insult the majority of your muslim brethrin or harm yourself indirectly by calling such statements in such a way.This will probably be my last post on this subject, so again I apologize if i have offended you and I pray that Allah guides us both to a way which is pleasing to Him, and that He make us amongst the successful.

Wasalamu ALaykum
Omar
21-10-05, 09:54 PM
Sister seeker inshaAllah I hope this might help you: http://www.whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3772&PN=1

It might contain answers to some of you questions, its worth a read.
~Soul~
22-10-05, 10:02 AM
lets go bermuda triangle to kill dajjal then :D
no1 can kill dajal except mahdi
Seeker_of_Truth
22-10-05, 06:08 PM
PLease do not take the ayah out of context. The first verse does not speak about the quran we have but about the luh al mahfouz in which Allah has written everything. Obviously the quran does not include everything,. It tells us most things we need to know in order to be successful and refers the rest to the sunnah as Allah the most wise has said Himself to follow the prophet:

Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
33:22

And obey Allah and the messenger, that ye may find mercy
3:132

These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success
4:13

And they say: We believe in Allah and the messenger, and we obey; then after that a faction of them turn away. Such are not believers.
24:47

The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and His messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And such are the successful
24:51

By the Star when it setteth Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired.
53:1-4
First of all hadith in ayah 7 :185 does not mean the hadeeths of the prophet as the other verses say to obey Allah and His messenger.

How do you obey The prophet, if not through following his sunnah?How do you apply the sunnah without hadeeth?

If you reject all hadeeth, you reject the prophets sunnah, if you reject the sunnah you reject Allahs command.

Ofcourse not since the quran told us to obey the messenger several times and the hadeeth is the vehicle for doing it.

Finally, the statement that "What the Qur'an means to you is what it means to you.You can take your interpretation as your word from what you read from the Qur'an." is a very dangerous one. THis is what leads to division and this is not acceptable to Allah as He has specifically mentioned the example of the prophet as one that is acceptable to him and also said that he has completed your faith. IF everyone took the quran as their own interpreation there would be 1.5 billion interperations of islam today. Therefore if you bring anything after that that the prophet did not apply it is not acceptable to Allah.

TO conclude, wallahi my intention was not to insult you or to look down on you, but to try to correct your erro to the best of my ability. If I have offended you , I humbly apologize. But I find it more than a little irritating when something which is an established belief in islam is constantly called a fairy tale, or a load of crock or such. If you do not believe do not offend and insult the majority of your muslim brethrin or harm yourself indirectly by calling such statements in such a way.This will probably be my last post on this subject, so again I apologize if i have offended you and I pray that Allah guides us both to a way which is pleasing to Him, and that He make us amongst the successful.

Wasalamu ALaykum

I don't have as much time as to reply to all of that...I have assignments to take care of...I will just reply to the things that popped out to me.

Obviouly,me and you have different perceptions about this,and we'll just leave it to respect each other's opinions.

Just a reminder that the hadiths were first collected 200 years after Prophet Muhammed's death. Bukhari's are the ones most accepted and out of 600,000,he only picked to put in 7397 hadiths which were considered authentic to him.

Then how come this hadith is accepted by most Muslims as true?
"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Whoever wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel3/12,21,39)

There was a ban put on to not write hadiths for a centuries.
According to the history books of Islam, the ban on writing "Hadith" was only lifted some 80 years after the Prophet had passed away by Omar Bin Abdulaziz (the grandson of Omar Bin Al-Khatab). In fact, the irony of the matter is that Omar Bin al-Khatab himself was vehemently opposed to the writing of any religion revelations EXCEPT the Quran:
Omar Bin Al-Khatab is recorded as saying: 'I wanted to write the traditions (Sun'an), and I remembered a people who were before you, they wrote other books to follow and abandoned the book of GOD. And I will never, I swear, replace GOD's book with anything' (Reported by Jami' Al-Bayan 1/67)

As we mentioned before, within a short span of 200 years from the Prophet's death (only 130 years from the lifting of the ban) there were over 600,000 Hadith's floating around at the time of Bukhari which were all attributed to the Prophet. Bukhari himself admitted to spending nearly 40 years studying the Hadith's and could only verify the chain of transmission from 1.24% of the total!.

Obviously we have to obey the prophet and God. And if you do not believe most hadiths how is it that you are NOT obeying the prophet?What people tend to forget is that the most important aspects of the Prophet’s life have been recorded and captured in the most detailed manner…not in the books of Hadith or tradition…but in the Holy Book itself.
PaGaL~LaDo0
22-10-05, 06:11 PM
:eek: :confused: :banghead: :nervous:

Instead of discussing where the Dajjal is why dont we seek protection from Allah swt from Dajjal and pray that we are strong in iman incase he appears whilst we are alive.

Allah SWT knows best

innit man u gtta rd 1st 10 vrsez of surah kaf i tink iz dat rite?
SoulAsylum
22-10-05, 06:15 PM
innit man u gtta rd 1st 10 vrsez of surah kaf i tink iz dat rite?

Yeh thats rite Paagal :up:
PaGaL~LaDo0
22-10-05, 06:24 PM
:D i need 2 lrn dat inshAllah
Griffith
04-11-05, 01:33 PM
Wait a sec if the Dajjal is locked up right now, that means he is immortal, right? And is it possible to go to the Bermuda Triangle from Arabia in one month in a ship? And what about the kingdom (or throne) of the Jinns is on the Sea, is there a Hadith to confirm that?
dr8breed
25-09-07, 02:26 AM
blah....i think all of this bermuda triangle thing is crap....why should u believe in such stuffs rather then pray and spend your time more in believing that allah is there and he is all mighty....Is there prove that dajjal is there living in the bermuda triangle, chained and scratching his armpits...lol.....how bout the planes and ships crash that had been found? why dont dajjal just eat them up...dont waste your precious time on this mindsets....even if it's true we can change everything....try pulling and convincing other people to join us muslimin and muslimat...try making their eyes open...i know its hard but we can work together...god had bring down al'quran for us for a reason....allah make this world not perfect but he make us humans to make it perfect....dont tell me you guys are gonna just sit there doing nothing and let dajjal come to you....do not fear nothing except allah whom had made us and he can take our life's away anytime.....:) :rolleyes:
dr8breed
25-09-07, 02:32 AM
Wait a sec if the Dajjal is locked up right now, that means he is immortal, right? And is it possible to go to the Bermuda Triangle from Arabia in one month in a ship? And what about the kingdom (or throne) of the Jinns is on the Sea, is there a Hadith to confirm that?

bulls*it actually...even if his immortal there's nothing he can do to stop allah...god is always fair...if what you guys said is true then before anything happen we can prevent it.....god made dajjal immortal and he can take dajjal away from being immortal.....
Fadila
25-09-07, 02:59 AM
Some of the Chinese, b/c there are alot of muslims in China!

bermuda triangle mystery

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:36:00 +0000


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amazon.co.uk

Bermuda Triangle

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:31:00 +0000

About Bermuda Triangle.

The Bermuda Triangle, also known as the Devil's Triangle, is a region in the western part of the North Atlantic Ocean in which a number of aircraft and surface vessels are alleged to have disappeared in mysterious circumstances which fall beyond the boundaries of human error, piracy, equipment failure, or natural disasters. Popular culture has attributed some of these disappearances to the paranormal, a suspension of the laws of physics, or activity by extraterrestrial beings.^[1]

A substantial body of documentation shows numerous incidents to have been inaccurately reported or embellished by later authors, and numerous official agencies have stated that the number and nature of disappearances is similar to any other area of ocean.^[2]^[3]^[4]

[hide]

The Triangle area

The area of the Triangle varies by author

The boundaries of the triangle cover the Straits of Florida, the Bahamas and the entire Caribbean island area and the Atlantic east to the Azores; others^[who?] add to it the Gulf of Mexico. The more familiar triangular boundary in most written works has as its points somewhere on the Atlantic coast of Miami, San Juan, Puerto Rico; and the mid-Atlantic island of Bermuda, with most of the accidents concentrated along the southern boundary around the Bahamas and the Florida Straits.

The area is one of the most heavily-sailed shipping lanes in the world, with ships crossing through it daily for ports in the Americas, Europe, and the Caribbean Islands. Cruise ships are also plentiful, and pleasure craft regularly go back and forth between Florida and the islands. It is also a heavily flown route for commercial and private aircraft heading towards Florida, the Caribbean, and South America from points north.

History

Origins

The first article of any kind in which the legend of the Triangle began appeared in newspapers by E.V.W. Jones on September 16, 1950, through the Associated Press.^[5] Two years later, Fate magazine published "Sea Mystery At Our Back Door",^[6] a short article by George X. Sand covering the loss of several planes and ships, including the loss of Flight 19, a group of five U.S. Navy TBM Avenger bombers on a training mission. Sand's article was the first to lay out the now-familiar triangular area where the losses took place. Flight 19 alone would be covered in the April 1962 issue of American Legion Magazine.^[7] It was claimed that the flight leader had been heard saying "We are entering white water, nothing seems right. We don't know where we are, the water is green, no white." It was also claimed that officials at the Navy board of inquiry stated that the planes "flew off to Mars." This was the first article to connect the supernatural to Flight 19, but it would take another author, Vincent Gaddis, writing in the February 1964 Argosy magazine to take Flight 19 together with other mysterious disappearances and place it under the umbrella of a new catchy name: "The Deadly Bermuda Triangle" though the first name was The Waters of Despair.^[8] He would build on that article with a more detailed book, Invisible Horizons, the next year.^[9] Others would follow with their own works: John Wallace Spencer (Limbo of the Lost, 1969, repr. 1973);^[10] Charles Berlitz (The Bermuda Triangle, 1974);^[11] Richard Winer (The Devil's Triangle, 1974),^[12] and many others, all keeping to some of the same supernatural elements outlined by Eckert.^[13]

Larry Kusche

Lawrence David Kusche, a research librarian from Arizona State University and author of The Bermuda Triangle Mystery: Solved (1975)^[14] has challenged this trend. Kusche's research revealed a number of inaccuracies and inconsistencies between Berlitz's accounts and statements from eyewitnesses, participants, and others involved in the initial incidents. He noted cases where pertinent information went unreported, such as the disappearance of round-the-world yachtsman Donald Crowhurst, which Berlitz had presented as a mystery, despite clear evidence to the contrary. Another example was the ore-carrier recounted by Berlitz as lost without trace three days out of an Atlantic port when it had been lost three days out of a port with the same name in the Pacific Ocean. Kusche also argued that a large percentage of the incidents which have sparked the Triangle's mysterious influence actually occurred well outside it. Often his research was simple: he would go over period newspapers of the dates of reported incidents and find reports on possibly relevant events like unusual weather, that were never mentioned in the disappearance stories.

Kusche concluded that:

The number of ships and aircraft reported missing in the area was not significantly greater, proportionally speaking, than in any other part of the ocean.
In an area frequented by tropical storms, the number of disappearances that did occur were, for the most part, neither disproportionate, unlikely, nor mysterious; furthermore, Berlitz and other writers would often fail to mention such storms.
The numbers themselves had been exaggerated by sloppy research. A boat listed as missing would be reported, but its eventual (if belated) return to port may not have been reported.
Some disappearances had in fact, never happened. One plane crash was said to have taken place in 1937 off Daytona Beach, Florida, in front of hundreds of witnesses; a check of the local papers revealed nothing.
The Legend of the Bermuda Triangle is a manufactured mystery... perpetuated by writers who either purposely or unknowingly made use of misconceptions, faulty reasoning, and sensationalism.^[14]

Further responses

When the UK Channel 4 television program "The Bermuda Triangle" (c. 1992) was being produced by John Simmons of Geofilms for the Equinox Programme, the marine insurer Lloyd's of London was asked if an unusually large number of ships had sunk in the Bermuda Triangle area. Lloyd's of London determined that large numbers of ships had not sunk there.^[15]

United States Coast Guard records confirm their conclusion. In fact, the number of supposed disappearances is relatively insignificant considering the number of ships and aircraft which pass through on a regular basis.^[14]

The Coast Guard is also officially skeptical of the Triangle, noting that they collect and publish, through their inquiries, much documentation contradicting many of the incidents written about by the Triangle authors. In one such incident involving the 1972 explosion and sinking of the tanker SS V. A. Fogg in the Gulf of Mexico, the Coast Guard photographed the wreck and recovered several bodies,^[16] in contrast with one Triangle author's claim that all the bodies had vanished, with the exception of the captain, who was found sitting in his cabin at his desk, clutching a coffee cup.^[10]

The NOVA / Horizon episode The Case of the Bermuda Triangle (1976-06-27) was highly critical, stating that "When we've gone back to the original sources or the people involved, the mystery evaporates. Science does not have to answer questions about the Triangle because those questions are not valid in the first place. ... Ships and planes behave in the Triangle the same way they behave everywhere else in the world."^[17]

Skeptical researchers, such as Ernest Taves^[18] and Barry Singer,^[19] have noted how mysteries and the paranormal are very popular and profitable. This has led to the production of vast amounts of material on topics such as the Bermuda Triangle. They were able to show that some of the pro-paranormal material is often misleading or inaccurate, but its producers continue to market it. Accordingly, they have claimed that the market is biased in favour of books, TV specials, etc. which support the Triangle mystery, and against well-researched material if it espouses a skeptical viewpoint.

Finally, if the Triangle is assumed to cross land, such as parts of Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, or Bermuda itself, there is no evidence for the disappearance of any land-based vehicles or persons.^{[citation needed]} The city of Freeport, located inside the Triangle, operates a major shipyard and an airport which annually handles 50,000 flights, and is visited by over a million tourists a year.

Supernatural explanations

Triangle writers have used a number of supernatural concepts to explain the events. One explanation pins the blame on leftover technology from the mythical lost continent of Atlantis. Sometimes connected to the Atlantis story is the submerged rock formation known as the Bimini Road off the island of Bimini in the Bahamas, which is in the Triangle by some definitions. Followers of the purported psychic Edgar Cayce take his prediction that evidence of Atlantis would be found in 1968 as referring to the discovery of the Bimini Road. Believers describe the formation as a road, wall, or other structure, though geologists consider it to be of natural origin.^[20]

Other writers attribute the events to UFOs.^[21] This idea was used by Steven Spielberg for his science fiction film Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which features the lost Flight 19 as alien abductees.

Charles Berlitz, grandson of a distinguished linguist and author of various additional books on anomalous phenomena, has kept in line with this extraordinary explanation, and attributed the losses in the Triangle to anomalous or unexplained forces.^[11]

Natural explanations

This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (May 2009)

Compass variations

Compass problems are one of the cited phrases in many Triangle incidents. While some have theorized that unusual local magnetic anomalies may exist in the area,^[22] such anomalies have not been shown to exist. Compasses have natural magnetic variations in relation to the Magnetic poles. For example, in the United States the only places where magnetic (compass) north and geographic (true) north are exactly the same are on a line running from Wisconsin to the Gulf of Mexico. Navigators have known this for centuries. But the public may not be as informed, and think there is something mysterious about a compass "changing" across an area as large as the Triangle, which it naturally will.^[14]

Deliberate acts of destruction

Deliberate acts of destruction can fall into two categories: acts of war, and acts of piracy. Records in enemy files have been checked for numerous losses; while many sinkings have been attributed to surface raiders or submarines during the World Wars and documented in the various command log books, many others which have been suspected as falling in that category have not been proven. It is suspected that the loss of USS Cyclops in 1918, as well as her sister ships Proteus and Nereus in World War II, were attributed to submarines, but no such link has been found in the German records.

Piracy, as defined by the taking of a ship or small boat on the high seas, is an act which continues to this day. While piracy for cargo theft is more common in the western Pacific and Indian oceans, drug smugglers do steal pleasure boats for smuggling operations, and may have been involved in crew and yacht disappearances in the Caribbean. Piracy in the Caribbean was common from about 1560 to the 1760s, and famous pirates included Edward Teach (Blackbeard) and Jean Lafitte.^{[citation needed]}

False-color image of the Gulf Stream flowing north through the western Atlantic Ocean. (NASA)

Gulf Stream

The Gulf Stream is an ocean current that originates in the Gulf of Mexico, and then through the Straits of Florida, into the North Atlantic. In essence, it is a river within an ocean, and like a river, it can and does carry floating objects. It has a surface velocity of up to about 2.5 metres per second (5.6 mph).^[23] A small plane making a water landing or a boat having engine trouble can be carried away from its reported position by the current.

Human error

One of the most cited explanations in official inquiries as to the loss of any aircraft or vessel is human error.^[24] Whether deliberate or accidental, humans have been known to make mistakes resulting in catastrophe, and losses within the Bermuda Triangle are no exception. For example, the Coast Guard cited a lack of proper training for the cleaning of volatile benzene residue as a reason for the loss of the tanker SS V. A. Fogg in 1972^{[citation needed]}. Human stubbornness may have caused businessman Harvey Conover to lose his sailing yacht, the Revonoc, as he sailed into the teeth of a storm south of Florida on January 1, 1958.^[25] Many losses remain inconclusive due to the lack of wreckage which could be studied, a fact cited on many official reports.

Hurricanes

Hurricanes are powerful storms which are spawned in tropical waters, and have historically been responsible for thousands of lives lost and billions of dollars in damage. The sinking of Francisco de Bobadilla's Spanish fleet in 1502 was the first recorded instance of a destructive hurricane. These storms have in the past caused a number of incidents related to the Triangle.

Methane hydrates

Main article: Methane clathrate

Worldwide distribution of confirmed or inferred offshore gas hydrate-bearing sediments, 1996.
Source: USGS

An explanation for some of the disappearances has focused on the presence of vast fields of methane hydrates (a form of natural gas) on the continental shelves.^[26] Laboratory experiments carried out in Australia have proven that bubbles can, indeed, sink a scale model ship by decreasing the density of the water;^[27] any wreckage consequently rising to the surface would be rapidly dispersed by the Gulf Stream. It has been hypothesized that periodic methane eruptions (sometimes called "mud volcanoes") may produce regions of frothy water that are no longer capable of providing adequate buoyancy for ships. If this were the case, such an area forming around a ship could cause it to sink very rapidly and without warning.

Publications by the USGS describe large stores of undersea hydrates worldwide, including the Blake Ridge area, off the southeastern United States coast.^[28] However, according to another of their papers, no large releases of gas hydrates are believed to have occurred in the Bermuda Triangle for the past 15,000 years.^[15]

It should also be noted that other areas of undersea methane hydrates aren't reported to give rise to similar incidents as the Bermuda Triangle, also that bubbles of underwater gas wouldn't account for aircraft disappearances.

Rogue waves

In various oceans around the world, rogue waves have caused ships to sink^[29] and oil platforms to topple.^[30] These waves are considered to be a mystery and until recently were believed to be a myth.^[31]^[32] However, rogue waves don't account for the missing aircraft.

Notable incidents

Main article: List of Bermuda Triangle incidents

Flight 19

US Navy TBF Grumman Avenger flight, similar to Flight 19. This photo had been used by various Triangle authors to illustrate Flight 19 itself. (US Navy)

Flight 19 was a training flight of TBM Avenger bombers that went missing on December 5, 1945 while over the Atlantic. The squadron's flight path was scheduled to take them due east for 120 miles, north for 73 miles, and then back over a final 120-mile leg that would return them to the naval base, but they never returned. The impression is given that the flight encountered unusual phenomena and anomalous compass readings, and that the flight took place on a calm day under the supervision of an experienced pilot, Lt. Charles Carroll Taylor. Adding to the intrigue is that the Navy's report of the accident was ascribed to "causes or reasons unknown." It is believed that Taylor's mother wanted to save her son's reputation, so she made them write "reasons unknown" when actually Taylor was 50 km NW from where he thought he was.^[33]

Adding to the mystery, a search and rescue Mariner aircraft with a 13-man crew was dispatched to aid the missing squadron, but the Mariner itself was never heard from again. Later, there was a report from a tanker cruising off the coast of Florida of a visible explosion at about the time the Mariner would have been on patrol.

While the basic facts of this version of the story are essentially accurate, some important details are missing. The weather was becoming stormy by the end of the incident, and naval reports and written recordings of the conversations between Taylor and the other pilots of Flight 19 do not indicate magnetic problems.^[33]

Mary Celeste

The mysterious abandonment in 1872 of the 282-ton brigantine Mary Celeste is often but inaccurately connected to the Triangle, the ship having been abandoned off the coast of Portugal. The event is possibly confused with the loss of a ship with a similar name, the Mari Celeste, a 207-ton paddle steamer which hit a reef and quickly sank off the coast of Bermuda on September 13, 1864.^[34]^[35] Kusche noted that many of the "facts" about this incident were actually about the Marie Celeste, the fictional ship from Arthur Conan Doyle's short story "J. Habakuk Jephson's Statement" (based on the real Mary Celeste incident, but fictionalised).

Ellen Austin

The Ellen Austin supposedly came across an abandoned derelict, placed on board a prize crew, and attempted to sail with it to New York in 1881. According to the stories, the derelict disappeared; others elaborating further that the derelict reappeared minus the prize crew, then disappeared again with a second prize crew on board. A check of Lloyd's of London records proved the existence of the Meta, built in 1854; in 1880 the Meta was renamed Ellen Austin. There are no casualty listings for this vessel, or any vessel at that time, that would suggest a large number of missing men placed on board a derelict which later disappeared.^[36]

USS Cyclops

The incident resulting in the single largest loss of life in the history of the US Navy not related to combat occurred when USS Cyclops, under the command of Lt Cdr G. W. Worley, went missing without a trace with a crew of 309 sometime after March 4, 1918, after departing the island of Barbados. Although there is no strong evidence for any single theory, many independent theories exist, some blaming storms, some capsizing, and some suggesting that wartime enemy activity was to blame for the loss.^[37]^[38]

Theodosia Burr Alston

Theodosia Burr Alston was the daughter of former United States Vice President Aaron Burr. Her disappearance has been cited at least once in relation to the Triangle.^[39] She was a passenger on board the Patriot, which sailed from Charleston, South Carolina to New York City on December 30, 1812, and was never heard from again. The planned route is well outside all but the most extended versions of the Bermuda Triangle. Both piracy and the War of 1812 have been posited as explanations, as well as a theory placing her in Texas, well outside the Triangle.

Spray

S.V. Spray was a derelict fishing boat refitted as an ocean cruiser by Joshua Slocum and used by him to complete the first ever single-handed circumnavigation of the world, between 1895 and 1898.

In 1909, Slocum set sail from Vineyard Haven bound for Venezuela. Neither he nor Spray were ever seen again.

There is no evidence they were in the Bermuda Triangle when they disappeared, nor is there any evidence of paranormal activity. The boat was considered in poor condition and a hard boat to handle that Slocum's skill usually overcame.^[14]

Schooner Carroll A. Deering, as seen from the Cape Lookout lightship on January 29, 1921, two days before she was found deserted in North Carolina. (US Coast Guard)

Carroll A. Deering

A five-masted schooner built in 1919, the Carroll A. Deering was found hard aground and abandoned at Diamond Shoals, near Cape Hatteras, North Carolina on January 31, 1921. Rumors and more at the time indicated the Deering was a victim of piracy, possibly connected with the illegal rum-running trade during Prohibition, and possibly involving another ship, S.S. Hewitt, which disappeared at roughly the same time. Just hours later, an unknown steamer sailed near the lightship along the track of the Deering, and ignored all signals from the lightship. It is speculated that the Hewitt may have been this mystery ship, and possibly involved in the Deering crew's disappearance.^[40]

Douglas DC-3

On December 28, 1948, a Douglas DC-3 aircraft, number NC16002, disappeared while on a flight from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to Miami. No trace of the aircraft or the 32 people onboard was ever found. From the documentation compiled by the Civil Aeronautics Board investigation, a possible key to the plane's disappearance was found, but barely touched upon by the Triangle writers: the plane's batteries were inspected and found to be low on charge, but ordered back into the plane without a recharge by the pilot while in San Juan. Whether or not this led to complete electrical failure will never be known. However, since piston-engined aircraft rely upon magnetos to provide spark to their cylinders rather than a battery powered ignition coil system, this theory is not strongly convincing.^[41]

Star Tiger and Star Ariel

G-AHNP Star Tiger disappeared on January 30, 1948 on a flight from the Azores to Bermuda; G-AGRE Star Ariel disappeared on January 17, 1949, on a flight from Bermuda to Kingston, Jamaica. Both were Avro Tudor IV passenger aircraft operated by British South American Airways.^[42]Both planes were operating at the very limits of their range and the slightest error or fault in the equipment could keep them from reaching the small island. One plane was not heard from long before it would have entered the Triangle.^[14]

KC-135 Stratotankers

On August 28, 1963 a pair of U.S. Air Force KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft collided and crashed into the Atlantic. The Triangle version (Winer, Berlitz, Gaddis^[8]^[11]^[12]) of this story specifies that they did collide and crash, but there were two distinct crash sites, separated by over 160 miles (260 km) of water. However, Kusche's research^[14] showed that the unclassified version of the Air Force investigation report stated that the debris field defining the second "crash site" was examined by a search and rescue ship, and found to be a mass of seaweed and driftwood tangled in an old buoy.

SS Marine Sulphur Queen

SS Marine Sulphur Queen, a T2 tanker converted from oil to sulfur carrier, was last heard from on February 4, 1963 with a crew of 39 near the Florida Keys. Marine Sulphur Queen was the first vessel mentioned in Vincent Gaddis' 1964 Argosy Magazine article,^[8] but he left it as having "sailed into the unknown", despite the Coast Guard report which not only documented the ship's badly-maintained history, but declared that it was an unseaworthy vessel that should never have gone to sea.^[43]^[44]

Raifuku Maru

One of the more famous incidents in the Triangle took place in 1921 (some say a few years later), when the Japanese vessel Raifuku Maru (sometimes misidentified as Raikuke Maru) went down with all hands after sending a distress signal which allegedly said "Danger like dagger now. Come quick!", or "It's like a dagger, come quick!" This has led writers to speculate on what the "dagger" was, with a waterspout being the likely candidate (Winer). In reality the ship was nowhere near the Triangle, nor was the word "dagger" a part of the ship's distress call ("Now very danger. Come quick."); having left Boston for Hamburg, Germany, on April 21, 1925, she got caught in a severe storm and sank in the North Atlantic with all hands while another ship, RMS Homeric, attempted an unsuccessful rescue.^[45]

Connemara IV

A pleasure yacht found adrift in the Atlantic south of Bermuda on September 26, 1955; it is usually stated in the stories (Berlitz, Winer^[11]^[12]) that the crew vanished while the yacht survived being at sea during three hurricanes. The 1955 Atlantic hurricane season lists only one storm coming near Bermuda towards the end of August, hurricane "Edith"; of the others, "Flora" was too far to the east, and "Katie" arrived after the yacht was recovered. It was confirmed that the Connemara IV was empty and in port when "Edith" may have caused the yacht to slip her moorings and drift out to sea.^[14]

The Bermuda Triangle Mystery - Solved

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:26:00 +0000

Larry Kusche

The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle had been told in books, magazine articles, and on television and radio talk shows for several years when, in 1972, Larry Kusche, then a reference librarian, decided to collect all the information he could find on each incident. He made contact with the Coast Guard, the Air Force, Lloyd's of London, and many other agencies. He obtained microfilm copies of newspapers from cities where various incidents had been reported.

This exhaustive research had an unexpected result - it solved the mystery. It also resulted in the publication of The Bermuda Triangle Mystery - Solved which is now back in print. Larry Kusche's book is more than an investigation of a mystery: it is a fascinating case history of a "manufactured mystery" in the making. It shows how over the years the raw materials of official accident reports, newspaper accounts articles in the mainstream press, and word of mouth have been assimilated into a "false mystery".

The Bermuda Triangle Mystery - Solved is the only book written on the Triangle that approaches the topic rationally, rather than as another great unsolved mystery of our time. Approximately 60 of the best-known cases are examined, in an unusual, but very clear and logical style. Kusche relates each incident as it has been told over the years. He then includes snippets from articles and reports that show what was written at that time. Kusche then discusses the incident, pointing out flaws in the story.

The Bermuda Triangle Mystery - Solved is the only book that critically examines the "mystery" and provides the reader with an alternative rational explanation to the sensationalist stories in the media.

Larry Kusche is a technical writer, commercial pilot, and a flight instructor. He is the author of The Disappearance of Flight 19.

302 pages Publication date 21st September, 1995

ISBN 0-87975-971-2

Bermuda Triangle mystery solved? It's a load of gas

noreply@blogger.com (Afnan Afif) — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:19:00 +0000

You Must Know About This..

Melbourne honours student David May at Monash University yesterday.
Picture: Andrew De La Rue

Massive gas bubbles rising from the sea floor may be capable of sinking ships and could explain the disappearance of a vessel in a North Sea "Bermuda Triangle", Melbourne researchers have concluded.

In a report published in the September issue of the American Journal of Physics, Monash University's Professor Joseph Monaghan and honours student David May said that a trawler discovered resting in a large methane crater off the east coast of Scotland may have been sunk by a huge gas bubble. The possibly lethal gas bubbles are created by underwater deposits of methane that have built up over thousands of years.

"It's long been known that there are pockets of methane gas, known as methane gas hydrates, beneath the ocean floor that could erupt if they're disturbed or if their internal pressure becomes too large," Professor Monaghan said.

The massive gas bubbles had the potential to cause aircraft to crash, Mr May said yesterday. "In the Bermuda Triangle, methane gas is known to be present and the release of that gas could cause not only boats to sink, as shown in our study, but also aeroplanes to crash," he said. The gas could cause an explosion if it came in contact with the hot engine of a plane.

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Oil-drilling platforms are aware of the dangers of ocean floor gas bubbles and have safety procedures to follow if they hit a methane pocket. But the discovery of the fishing trawler in the North Sea suggests that not all vessels were as well prepared. Sonar surveys of the ocean floor 150 kilometres east of Scotland have revealed high levels of methane and gas eruption sites. At a site known as the Witch's Hole, a documentary film crew in 2000 discovered a wreck resting in the centre of an underwater crater, likely caused by a huge methane gas release. The wreck was a 22-metre, steel-hulled fishing trawler, built between 1890 and 1930. The trawler was relatively undamaged and was horizontal on the sea bed.

From laboratory experiments, the Monash University researchers were able to conclude that large gas bubbles, theoretically, had the ability to sink ships. "It is quite possible that the trawler languishing in Witch's Hole was sunk by a bubble with a radius equal to or bigger than the trawler's hull," Professor Monaghan said.

Mr May said they had made a small perspex boat and conducted a number of experiments examining how the size of the bubble related to the size and position of the boat.

They found that if a ship was directly above a gas bubble it was relatively safe, but a vessel on the edge or in the trough of a bubble may be swamped.

"The sinking occurs because a mound of water is raised above the region where the bubble reaches the surface," Professor Monaghan said.

"The flow from the mound creates a deep trough on each side of the mound, and the flow from the mound carries the boat into the trough."

Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved

The Arctic Sea Mystery And Other Unexplained Maritime Disappearances

Have You Know About This?

triangle history

bermuda triangle current home of dajjal??

bermuda triangle mystery

Bermuda Triangle

Contents

The Triangle area

History

Origins

Larry Kusche

Further responses

Supernatural explanations

Natural explanations

Compass variations

Deliberate acts of destruction

Gulf Stream

Human error

Hurricanes

Methane hydrates

Rogue waves

Notable incidents

Flight 19

Mary Celeste

Ellen Austin

USS Cyclops

Theodosia Burr Alston

Spray

Carroll A. Deering

Douglas DC-3

Star Tiger and Star Ariel

KC-135 Stratotankers

SS Marine Sulphur Queen

Raifuku Maru

Connemara IV

The Bermuda Triangle Mystery - Solved

Larry Kusche

Bermuda Triangle mystery solved? It's a load of gas