Comments for Betchablog http://chrisbetcher.com education + technology + ideas Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:14:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Be Better by Tracy Richardson http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/qwNiSLwVuhg/ Tracy Richardson Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:14:59 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3982 Surely passionate, dedicated and 'great' teachers are largely a product of the environment they work within? Isn't a large part of a union's purpose to ensure the pay and conditions within which a teacher works encourages rather than hinders great teaching? If ever we need someone on our side fighting for the tools, resources, money and room to do what we're good at, it's now. I don't think we should confuse burnout with dispassion. If we get to the point of needing to 'respectly but firmly move people on' who came into the profession wanting to make a difference, I think the fundamental question we need to be asking is 'how did that happen?' and dealing with the answer. If, as it seems you might be implying, there really are that many rubbish teachers out there, surely the system has to take a large chunk of the responsibility. Teaching is complicated, difficult and requires super-human skills sometimes. How about we strip back what teachers are required to do rather than give them more, allow them to have strengths and weaknesses and focus on their strengths, and be valued for the things they CAN do, not flogged for the things they can't. Everything else, I agree with wholeheartedly!! Surely passionate, dedicated and ‘great’ teachers are largely a product of the environment they work within?

Isn’t a large part of a union’s purpose to ensure the pay and conditions within which a teacher works encourages rather than hinders great teaching? If ever we need someone on our side fighting for the tools, resources, money and room to do what we’re good at, it’s now.

I don’t think we should confuse burnout with dispassion.

If we get to the point of needing to ‘respectly but firmly move people on’ who came into the profession wanting to make a difference, I think the fundamental question we need to be asking is ‘how did that happen?’ and dealing with the answer. If, as it seems you might be implying, there really are that many rubbish teachers out there, surely the system has to take a large chunk of the responsibility.

Teaching is complicated, difficult and requires super-human skills sometimes. How about we strip back what teachers are required to do rather than give them more, allow them to have strengths and weaknesses and focus on their strengths, and be valued for the things they CAN do, not flogged for the things they can’t.

Everything else, I agree with wholeheartedly!!


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3982 Comment on Be Better by Kynan Robinson http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/efhK444cpL4/ Kynan Robinson Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:50:59 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3981 Hi Chris, I find it an interesting position that you take that would elevate your world perspective and insights into what makes a good teacher to give you the perceived right to judge other teachers as being good or bad to the extent where you could potentially fire them. Having little insight into their own personal lives etc which might account for there "bad teaching" as you write, thus making you one of the good teachers, you still think that you or someone sitting in the principals chair has the right to just fire them. Can I please have a list of characteristics you believe go into making up good teaching so we could properly debate that rather than just generalisations that you have in your blog post. What's your beliefs in regards to literacy, numeracy, all core subjects, pedagogical approaches to learning and teaching, do you think spelling is a good or not, do you thing collegiality is necessary, what about being punctual always having a smile, non-teaching issues that go into the profession etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Surely the checks and balances supported by the union are there to protect us all from the possibilities of an unfair dismissal. These include merit and equity, arbitration and the unfair dismissals board. If you believe you aren't part of the profession that deserves firing then isn't it your responsibility to work with the other half and train them, encourage them, support them? cheers Kynan Hi Chris, I find it an interesting position that you take that would elevate your world perspective and insights into what makes a good teacher to give you the perceived right to judge other teachers as being good or bad to the extent where you could potentially fire them.

Having little insight into their own personal lives etc which might account for there “bad teaching” as you write, thus making you one of the good teachers, you still think that you or someone sitting in the principals chair has the right to just fire them.

Can I please have a list of characteristics you believe go into making up good teaching so we could properly debate that rather than just generalisations that you have in your blog post. What’s your beliefs in regards to literacy, numeracy, all core subjects, pedagogical approaches to learning and teaching, do you think spelling is a good or not, do you thing collegiality is necessary, what about being punctual always having a smile, non-teaching issues that go into the profession etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Surely the checks and balances supported by the union are there to protect us all from the possibilities of an unfair dismissal. These include merit and equity, arbitration and the unfair dismissals board.
If you believe you aren’t part of the profession that deserves firing then isn’t it your responsibility to work with the other half and train them, encourage them, support them?

cheers

Kynan


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3981 Comment on Be Better by Richard Olsen http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/zJOc2LUcn3M/ Richard Olsen Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:23:32 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3979 Rubbish, the teachers you are describing don't exist. They are a myth. Almost all teachers in our schools are more than capable of being great teachers, given training and support. People aren't innately good or bad, hard working or lazy. We are products of our environment. Teachers often have circumstances beyond their control either at work or at home, that you and I don't know about. They often don't have sound pedagogical knowledge, they may not have classroom management skills, yes if that is the case then they are ill-prepared to do their job, but it is not their fault, and they probably feel powerless to change their circumstances. Where is school leadership? Unfortunately they are often just as pedagogically weak and feel just as powerless to address the problem. You, yourself admit (in the comments) to being a "bad teacher" but you weren't, you were ill-prepared, under supported and had little confidence. Bob Dylan didn't do a deal with the Devil at the crossroads, he just went away and learnt to play the guitar, similarly nothing magical happened to you when you took time off teaching. We are the products of our experiences, Bob Dylan, you and all of the teachers you referring to. I want to be part of a education system, where teachers help and support each other. I want to be part of a education system that addresses root problems rather than the wasting time on the symptoms. Rubbish, the teachers you are describing don’t exist. They are a myth. Almost all teachers in our schools are more than capable of being great teachers, given training and support.

People aren’t innately good or bad, hard working or lazy. We are products of our environment. Teachers often have circumstances beyond their control either at work or at home, that you and I don’t know about. They often don’t have sound pedagogical knowledge, they may not have classroom management skills, yes if that is the case then they are ill-prepared to do their job, but it is not their fault, and they probably feel powerless to change their circumstances. Where is school leadership? Unfortunately they are often just as pedagogically weak and feel just as powerless to address the problem.

You, yourself admit (in the comments) to being a “bad teacher” but you weren’t, you were ill-prepared, under supported and had little confidence. Bob Dylan didn’t do a deal with the Devil at the crossroads, he just went away and learnt to play the guitar, similarly nothing magical happened to you when you took time off teaching. We are the products of our experiences, Bob Dylan, you and all of the teachers you referring to.

I want to be part of a education system, where teachers help and support each other. I want to be part of a education system that addresses root problems rather than the wasting time on the symptoms.


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3979 Comment on Be Better by david eldridge http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/cMYV9-Yj4y4/ david eldridge Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:45:24 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3978 No argument about wanting dynamic motivated teachers. However it's a big mistake to think that Unions are an agency that holds teaching back. My NAHT (Eng) provides the most dynamic forward thinking CPD available to me. Local Authorities just pedal the Govt. line. In England we have been told that rather than retiring at 60 we have to work until 67/68! Now I can't see that working with class sizes of 50+ as the class limit of a ridiculous 30 will be put to one side. The teachers holidays will be cut back significantly etc... I see much more dynamic teaching than not. I am off now to my inappropriate 132 year old school and were it not for unions we would still be in the situation where married women couldn't teach. Let's be pro quality education, but don't stick labels on all unions, or all teachers etc. Let's work creatively and collaboratively towards a system where we all deliver the best we can. A system where money doesn't by the most for the few. I enjoyed your post, I needed to be in the pub arguing this one with you:) Mr E Hawes No argument about wanting dynamic motivated teachers. However it’s a big mistake to think that Unions are an agency that holds teaching back. My NAHT (Eng) provides the most dynamic forward thinking CPD available to me. Local Authorities just pedal the Govt. line. In England we have been told that rather than retiring at 60 we have to work until 67/68! Now I can’t see that working with class sizes of 50+ as the class limit of a ridiculous 30 will be put to one side. The teachers holidays will be cut back significantly etc… I see much more dynamic teaching than not. I am off now to my inappropriate 132 year old school and were it not for unions we would still be in the situation where married women couldn’t teach.
Let’s be pro quality education, but don’t stick labels on all unions, or all teachers etc. Let’s work creatively and collaboratively towards a system where we all deliver the best we can. A system where money doesn’t by the most for the few.
I enjoyed your post, I needed to be in the pub arguing this one with you:)

Mr E
Hawes


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3978 Comment on Be Better by Kathleen Morris http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/WaSKicqx4k8/ Kathleen Morris Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:44:09 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3977 Hi Chris, All I can say is "hear, hear!". You have definitely articulated what I seem to be thinking about every single day! Until we realise our utopian dream, I'll just keep lying asleep thinking how I can do things better.... ;-) Kath Hi Chris,

All I can say is “hear, hear!”. You have definitely articulated what I seem to be thinking about every single day!

Until we realise our utopian dream, I’ll just keep lying asleep thinking how I can do things better…. ;-)

Kath


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3977 Comment on Be Better by Anthony Butterworth http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/GxmxAqCTrDw/ Anthony Butterworth Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:28:04 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3975 I agree with much of the original post but I 'm going to come out swinging about the union bashing. If it wasn't for the various teachers unions, teachers would be much more poorly paid and I'm confident the profession would attract fewer quality teachers. Ask yourself if you would do the job for twenty thousand dollars less per year. If it wasn't for the unions, class sizes would be much, much larger. Do you think you could deliver the same quality of education with 40-60 students in your classroom? You (and I) may not agree with everything a union does but don't forget, at least, those two things. I want quality, caring teachers for my kids and I am immodest enough to describe myself as a quality, caring ex-teacher. I just don't think jaded, time-serving, past their use-by-date teachers arise out of a vacuum. I can think of many drivers of their cynicism, of the propensity of some to just turn up rather than inspire learning. These include a bureaucracy that demands more reporting, a trend across all of the public sector towards box-ticking rather than doing a great job, highly visible cynical political leadership where politicians will do just about anything (break promises, lie, misuse public funds for party advertising) to keep THEIR jobs. Not to mention the challenges presented by rapidly changing technology and a world where the community and politicians seem to expect school curriculum to expand readily to teach children EVERYTHING. In this context something has to give. And it's not the unions' fault. Chris, in your role as a technology mentor I am sure you are fequently frustrated by teachers who don't want to stay up to date. I've had that role and know the frustrations first hand. I occasionally found the words, "Please get out of the new world if you can't lend a hand" echoing through my brain on difficult days. The irony is, of course, that it was baby boomer teachers who were being so reluctant to embrace new technology and new ways of teaching. So, my issue? Australian teachers unions have a long, proud history of making education and education systems better for both teachers and students and I don't like to see them identified as the source of a very difficult, complex problem: how to make schools better. Like Jim Mullaney above, I prefer the extended comment you made to the original post. And it's interesting that you mentioned the value of great leadership from your principal. I will also add that I always look forward to a good, thought-provoking read when a new Betchablog post arrives in my email. I agree with much of the original post but I ‘m going to come out swinging about the union bashing. If it wasn’t for the various teachers unions, teachers would be much more poorly paid and I’m confident the profession would attract fewer quality teachers. Ask yourself if you would do the job for twenty thousand dollars less per year. If it wasn’t for the unions, class sizes would be much, much larger. Do you think you could deliver the same quality of education with 40-60 students in your classroom? You (and I) may not agree with everything a union does but don’t forget, at least, those two things.

I want quality, caring teachers for my kids and I am immodest enough to describe myself as a quality, caring ex-teacher. I just don’t think jaded, time-serving, past their use-by-date teachers arise out of a vacuum. I can think of many drivers of their cynicism, of the propensity of some to just turn up rather than inspire learning. These include a bureaucracy that demands more reporting, a trend across all of the public sector towards box-ticking rather than doing a great job, highly visible cynical political leadership where politicians will do just about anything (break promises, lie, misuse public funds for party advertising) to keep THEIR jobs. Not to mention the challenges presented by rapidly changing technology and a world where the community and politicians seem to expect school curriculum to expand readily to teach children EVERYTHING. In this context something has to give. And it’s not the unions’ fault.

Chris, in your role as a technology mentor I am sure you are fequently frustrated by teachers who don’t want to stay up to date. I’ve had that role and know the frustrations first hand. I occasionally found the words, “Please get out of the new world if you can’t lend a hand” echoing through my brain on difficult days. The irony is, of course, that it was baby boomer teachers who were being so reluctant to embrace new technology and new ways of teaching.

So, my issue? Australian teachers unions have a long, proud history of making education and education systems better for both teachers and students and I don’t like to see them identified as the source of a very difficult, complex problem: how to make schools better.

Like Jim Mullaney above, I prefer the extended comment you made to the original post. And it’s interesting that you mentioned the value of great leadership from your principal.

I will also add that I always look forward to a good, thought-provoking read when a new Betchablog post arrives in my email.


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3975 Comment on Be Better by Darren Howell http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/shZ20Zobcj0/ Darren Howell Wed, 08 Feb 2012 00:09:30 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3974 Hi Chris I think we saw in the ABC 4 Corners Monday night that change can and is occurring. The fact that the Victorian Dept of Education demolished 3 old schools to build a new, modern campus indicates that maybe there are people in government that are getting it. Giving the principal authority to make decisions on staffing and teaching processes is a big step in the right direction. With strong, visible school leadership and ongoing teacher/teaching review processes I think we will start to see the change education is crying out for. Hi Chris

I think we saw in the ABC 4 Corners Monday night that change can and is occurring. The fact that the Victorian Dept of Education demolished 3 old schools to build a new, modern campus indicates that maybe there are people in government that are getting it. Giving the principal authority to make decisions on staffing and teaching processes is a big step in the right direction.

With strong, visible school leadership and ongoing teacher/teaching review processes I think we will start to see the change education is crying out for.


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3974 Comment on Be Better by VIckie Vance http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/KYIRujfY_rE/ VIckie Vance Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:29:45 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3972 A wonderful post Chris....honest, passionate and personal! I'm was a mature-age teaching students after a career in marketing and public relations (note the people connection here!). I love teaching and I get frustrated at those that are marking time. I'm a mother too...and I want that for my kids - someone to spark the passion of learning, where time passes quickly because you are so engrossed in what you are doing you forget it's recess or lunch or time to go home or to check the sms of facebook messages! Thankyou so much for sharing your thoughts with us all, it's great to know there are many of us around! A wonderful post Chris….honest, passionate and personal!

I’m was a mature-age teaching students after a career in marketing and public relations (note the people connection here!). I love teaching and I get frustrated at those that are marking time.

I’m a mother too…and I want that for my kids – someone to spark the passion of learning, where time passes quickly because you are so engrossed in what you are doing you forget it’s recess or lunch or time to go home or to check the sms of facebook messages!

Thankyou so much for sharing your thoughts with us all, it’s great to know there are many of us around!


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3972 Comment on Be Better by All our jobs… : Darcy Moore's Blog http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/x04sbFdoZXQ/ All our jobs… : Darcy Moore's Blog Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:41:08 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3971 [...] RE: Chris Betcha’s thoughtful post I believe that our whole community needs to take responsibility for learning, not just teachers. An excellent doctor is a must but just as important is a community that values good health and by holding this value, helps everyone on the right path towards that goal? Parents have a particular responsibility, as do grandparents, brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts for education. Our community attitudes towards learning shape our culture. Our community attitudes towards learning shape our teachers – and vice versa. Good policy helps. We need to move past the counter-productive era of scapegoating. We must nurture a new generation of teachers while affording respect to those professionals who have spent a life time educating our children. IMHO. [...] [...] RE: Chris Betcha’s thoughtful post I believe that our whole community needs to take responsibility for learning, not just teachers. An excellent doctor is a must but just as important is a community that values good health and by holding this value, helps everyone on the right path towards that goal? Parents have a particular responsibility, as do grandparents, brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts for education. Our community attitudes towards learning shape our culture. Our community attitudes towards learning shape our teachers – and vice versa. Good policy helps. We need to move past the counter-productive era of scapegoating. We must nurture a new generation of teachers while affording respect to those professionals who have spent a life time educating our children. IMHO. [...]


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3971 Comment on Be Better by Caitlin Burns http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BetchablogComments/~3/WFpl4MS-4lo/ Caitlin Burns Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:20:41 +0000 http://chrisbetcher.com/?p=1887#comment-3970 I'll second that! Well said Chris. Although as a beginning teacher, I see change happening - at least around me. I feel that I was taken seriously from day one. That as I am passionate about edtech, other teachers trusted me and my advice (that takes some getting used to!) So far, although sometimes disheartening for the reasons you've outlined, I still LOVE being a teacher. I love that I have the ability to continue to discover new things every day/term/year... And most of all, I love being part of an awesome teaching community both online and in RL ;) I’ll second that! Well said Chris.

Although as a beginning teacher, I see change happening – at least around me. I feel that I was taken seriously from day one. That as I am passionate about edtech, other teachers trusted me and my advice (that takes some getting used to!)

So far, although sometimes disheartening for the reasons you’ve outlined, I still LOVE being a teacher. I love that I have the ability to continue to discover new things every day/term/year…

And most of all, I love being part of an awesome teaching community both online and in RL ;)


]]> http://chrisbetcher.com/2012/02/be-better/comment-page-1/#comment-3970