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	<title>Comments for BlogRodent</title>
	<link>http://tatumweb.com/blog</link>
	<description>Pentecostal Rumination and Review</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Cyber-Sexuality: Maintaining Real Purity in a Virtual World by Traditional Family Resources</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/325446460/</link>
		<author>Traditional Family Resources</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/29/cybersexuality/#comment-83477</guid>
		<description>As they say in 12 stop meetings, "The only shame with any addiction, is not admitting you need help."

A recent survey performed on 1,000 professing Christian men and women,  found that 50% of the men and 20% of the women surveyed were addicted to pornography.

It appears any addiction has taken us captive the very moment we believe we are controlling it.

Like any addiction, sex becomes the drug to relieve stress, to cut the edge of emotional pain, often playing a self-nurturing role.

Like the self-mutilator who cuts the pain out, the true sex addict takes no real pleasure in the actual sexual act, but rather feels great shame afterwards.

Just as with any addiction, the sex addicts addiction must grow more heinous in order to retain the same high. Therefore, the behavior progressively gets more risky.

I know, I was there</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As they say in 12 stop meetings, &#8220;The only shame with any addiction, is not admitting you need help.&#8221;</p>
<p>A recent survey performed on 1,000 professing Christian men and women,  found that 50% of the men and 20% of the women surveyed were addicted to pornography.</p>
<p>It appears any addiction has taken us captive the very moment we believe we are controlling it.</p>
<p>Like any addiction, sex becomes the drug to relieve stress, to cut the edge of emotional pain, often playing a self-nurturing role.</p>
<p>Like the self-mutilator who cuts the pain out, the true sex addict takes no real pleasure in the actual sexual act, but rather feels great shame afterwards.</p>
<p>Just as with any addiction, the sex addicts addiction must grow more heinous in order to retain the same high. Therefore, the behavior progressively gets more risky.</p>
<p>I know, I was there</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Dane</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/324949531/</link>
		<author>Dane</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-82678</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thought-provoking post, Rich.  I just found your blog and I'm a week behind on this post it seems.

The biblical model for our response to the server/homosexual couple scenario is probably not first-century Palestine, but Daniel in Babylon.

Perhaps an important distinction needs to be made in the scenario:  Is the owner a Christian or a pagan. (Is the "authority" Christian or pagan).  If I'm a Daniel and the king asks me to serve pork to a pagan, I do it.  I may not partake myself, but I will give service with a smile and seek to emulate the hospitality that the king desires in his courts.  My effective witness is not to the periodic passers-by in the cafe.  My witness is long-term to the king and my coworkers.

If I'm asked to serve alcohol, then I do so.  If the patron has had too much and is obviously getting inebriated, I can politely say when asked to bring another drink, "Sir, I'm glad you are enjoying the food and drinks but I am most concerned about your safety.  You are not going to be driving anytime soon are you?"  IF the person wants more to drink then I tell my manager (king).  If the manager says give him more to drink, then I do it but I'm not responsible now.  The next day I can tell the king, "I'm not comfortable serving more drinks to an enebriated person.  That's endangering too many lives."  Then pray for your manager.  Pray for a better job.  And see what God does.  Chances are there's actually a company policy about NOT serving more drinks to someone who has already had more than enough.

Now if you own the cafe, then you get to call the shots! (no pun intended.)  If you are the king, then you can demand what you want to demand.  But if you are a Daniel in Babylon, you may only be able to control your own diet.  

People we are living in Babylon.  We are not the ruling Pharisees in Palestine anymore!  We once had the control of the culture and morality of this land.  We do so no longer.  The rules have changed.  But we can still be an effective witness.  But its from the bottom up and not the top down.

Honor God today by living in Christ's joy  even in Babylon.  Pray for the prosperity of the people around you.  Build houses.  But don't eat the king's food and don't bow down to his gods.

Joyfully serving homosexuals is not eating the king's food.  Engaging in homosexual relations IS eating the king's food.  Daniel didn't eat the food, but he served those who did, without raising issues of conscience.

Just some thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thought-provoking post, Rich.  I just found your blog and I&#8217;m a week behind on this post it seems.</p>
<p>The biblical model for our response to the server/homosexual couple scenario is probably not first-century Palestine, but Daniel in Babylon.</p>
<p>Perhaps an important distinction needs to be made in the scenario:  Is the owner a Christian or a pagan. (Is the &#8220;authority&#8221; Christian or pagan).  If I&#8217;m a Daniel and the king asks me to serve pork to a pagan, I do it.  I may not partake myself, but I will give service with a smile and seek to emulate the hospitality that the king desires in his courts.  My effective witness is not to the periodic passers-by in the cafe.  My witness is long-term to the king and my coworkers.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m asked to serve alcohol, then I do so.  If the patron has had too much and is obviously getting inebriated, I can politely say when asked to bring another drink, &#8220;Sir, I&#8217;m glad you are enjoying the food and drinks but I am most concerned about your safety.  You are not going to be driving anytime soon are you?&#8221;  IF the person wants more to drink then I tell my manager (king).  If the manager says give him more to drink, then I do it but I&#8217;m not responsible now.  The next day I can tell the king, &#8220;I&#8217;m not comfortable serving more drinks to an enebriated person.  That&#8217;s endangering too many lives.&#8221;  Then pray for your manager.  Pray for a better job.  And see what God does.  Chances are there&#8217;s actually a company policy about NOT serving more drinks to someone who has already had more than enough.</p>
<p>Now if you own the cafe, then you get to call the shots! (no pun intended.)  If you are the king, then you can demand what you want to demand.  But if you are a Daniel in Babylon, you may only be able to control your own diet.  </p>
<p>People we are living in Babylon.  We are not the ruling Pharisees in Palestine anymore!  We once had the control of the culture and morality of this land.  We do so no longer.  The rules have changed.  But we can still be an effective witness.  But its from the bottom up and not the top down.</p>
<p>Honor God today by living in Christ&#8217;s joy  even in Babylon.  Pray for the prosperity of the people around you.  Build houses.  But don&#8217;t eat the king&#8217;s food and don&#8217;t bow down to his gods.</p>
<p>Joyfully serving homosexuals is not eating the king&#8217;s food.  Engaging in homosexual relations IS eating the king&#8217;s food.  Daniel didn&#8217;t eat the food, but he served those who did, without raising issues of conscience.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Alaine in the Plains</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/318078096/</link>
		<author>Alaine in the Plains</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-80750</guid>
		<description>I think it really deserves to be pointed out that Rick is only talking about performing a social service that (almost everybody understands) requires saying things you don't believe and which nobody takes personally (who is mentally healthy).

When the waitress says, "Thanks for eating at Sloppy Joe's" I don't believe she's personally delighted I'm waiting for her to bring me food. Any customer will do. The woulds would be the same. 

No, we don't take it personally, and we shouldn't. When Rick offers congratulations at my wedding (I'm straight) as my server I wouldn't take it as an endorsement (implied or otherwise) of my straight happy marriage, either. He doesn't know me.

We are straining at the gnats of implied endorsement because we cannot swallow the camel of grace. What I read Rick talking about here is being gracious.

How many of us would have turned off the NPR station at the first hint of an interview with a homosexual?

Alaine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it really deserves to be pointed out that Rick is only talking about performing a social service that (almost everybody understands) requires saying things you don&#8217;t believe and which nobody takes personally (who is mentally healthy).</p>
<p>When the waitress says, &#8220;Thanks for eating at Sloppy Joe&#8217;s&#8221; I don&#8217;t believe she&#8217;s personally delighted I&#8217;m waiting for her to bring me food. Any customer will do. The woulds would be the same. </p>
<p>No, we don&#8217;t take it personally, and we shouldn&#8217;t. When Rick offers congratulations at my wedding (I&#8217;m straight) as my server I wouldn&#8217;t take it as an endorsement (implied or otherwise) of my straight happy marriage, either. He doesn&#8217;t know me.</p>
<p>We are straining at the gnats of implied endorsement because we cannot swallow the camel of grace. What I read Rick talking about here is being gracious.</p>
<p>How many of us would have turned off the NPR station at the first hint of an interview with a homosexual?</p>
<p>Alaine.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Bethany</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/318006055/</link>
		<author>Bethany</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-80616</guid>
		<description>Rich,

I so appreciate your thoughtfulness and graciousness in this case.  I just got back from dinner with a group of folks that included 2 gay couples, 1 straight, living-together couple, and 1 other married couple.   They all know my husband and I are Christians.  But so what?  I'm getting to know these people, chatting about work, and sharing a few laughs.  I'm not going to point out theirs sins out of the blue.  And I'd have to confront the un-married straight couple as well.  

I guess my point, if I have one here, is that I understand my role here as showing Christ's love to these, my new friends.   They don't need to be told what the Bible says about homosexuality.  What they don't know, or haven't experienced, is the brute force of the love of God.  

I loved the question, "If we’re to offer such unconditional forgiveness against personal injustices, what right do I have to hold sin against someone who hasn’t sinned against me, but against God himself?"  Especially when God doesn't hold it against them -- not in the sense of saying, "you have to change before I'll accept you."  The whole point is that no one deserves forgiveness, but He offers it for free.  While we were yet sinners, He died for us.

And how often do I grieve the Lord every hour?  How often do I celebrate my acts that God would mourn over, like congratulating myself on how much I tithe?  

Jesus doesn't not ignore anyone, but seeks out everyone with open arms.  Last time I came to Him, I know I was not required to get my life all straightened out (pun intended) before He accepted me.  Because, of course, I can't straighten myself out.  The only thing I have to pin my hopes on is Jesus, his great love, and his work on the cross for me.

Thanks for writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich,</p>
<p>I so appreciate your thoughtfulness and graciousness in this case.  I just got back from dinner with a group of folks that included 2 gay couples, 1 straight, living-together couple, and 1 other married couple.   They all know my husband and I are Christians.  But so what?  I&#8217;m getting to know these people, chatting about work, and sharing a few laughs.  I&#8217;m not going to point out theirs sins out of the blue.  And I&#8217;d have to confront the un-married straight couple as well.  </p>
<p>I guess my point, if I have one here, is that I understand my role here as showing Christ&#8217;s love to these, my new friends.   They don&#8217;t need to be told what the Bible says about homosexuality.  What they don&#8217;t know, or haven&#8217;t experienced, is the brute force of the love of God.  </p>
<p>I loved the question, &#8220;If we’re to offer such unconditional forgiveness against personal injustices, what right do I have to hold sin against someone who hasn’t sinned against me, but against God himself?&#8221;  Especially when God doesn&#8217;t hold it against them &#8212; not in the sense of saying, &#8220;you have to change before I&#8217;ll accept you.&#8221;  The whole point is that no one deserves forgiveness, but He offers it for free.  While we were yet sinners, He died for us.</p>
<p>And how often do I grieve the Lord every hour?  How often do I celebrate my acts that God would mourn over, like congratulating myself on how much I tithe?  </p>
<p>Jesus doesn&#8217;t not ignore anyone, but seeks out everyone with open arms.  Last time I came to Him, I know I was not required to get my life all straightened out (pun intended) before He accepted me.  Because, of course, I can&#8217;t straighten myself out.  The only thing I have to pin my hopes on is Jesus, his great love, and his work on the cross for me.</p>
<p>Thanks for writing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by David</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/317091923/</link>
		<author>David</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 01:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-80342</guid>
		<description>I must say, having over 20 years of working directly with the public has given me a wealth of experience. I have learned many, many things about people in general. I have also learned that courteous and professional care can certainly be achieved without giving approval (implicitly, at the very least) of the patron's lifestyle/situation/choices. One can deftly move the conversation to where they are headed after the wedding, for example. Or, perhaps asking if they are from the immediate area and moving the topic to where they work/live/whatever. Ultimately the core of the job of servers is to make the patron feel comfortable in the establishment so that they will want to come back and spend more of their money there. I absolutely agree that it's not the job of waitstaff to pontificate on personal matters when the relationship you have with them is, at it's core, a financial one.

However, I do feel that giving congratulations on the wedding is giving tacit approval of their relationship. If one cannot stay neutral while serving food, then waitstaffing is not the profession to be chosen. Why would they ever feel that I'm judging them? They would only be able to tell if I was not able to stay professional. And, seriously, "withhold my enthusiasm"?

No offense Rich, but as a devout Christian why would you find yourself enthused?

Finally, while I'm not sure I totally agree with Mr Jeremy, I don't know that I would rate his comments as absurd or that he's trying to "find reasonableness in the extremes". It seems to me that he's taking the new criteria for marriage (simply being "in love" ... whatever that means) to it's logical conclusion. I fully believe that the vast majority of people 75 years ago would have said the idea of homosexual marriage being legal was an "absurd conclusion" also.

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say, having over 20 years of working directly with the public has given me a wealth of experience. I have learned many, many things about people in general. I have also learned that courteous and professional care can certainly be achieved without giving approval (implicitly, at the very least) of the patron&#8217;s lifestyle/situation/choices. One can deftly move the conversation to where they are headed after the wedding, for example. Or, perhaps asking if they are from the immediate area and moving the topic to where they work/live/whatever. Ultimately the core of the job of servers is to make the patron feel comfortable in the establishment so that they will want to come back and spend more of their money there. I absolutely agree that it&#8217;s not the job of waitstaff to pontificate on personal matters when the relationship you have with them is, at it&#8217;s core, a financial one.</p>
<p>However, I do feel that giving congratulations on the wedding is giving tacit approval of their relationship. If one cannot stay neutral while serving food, then waitstaffing is not the profession to be chosen. Why would they ever feel that I&#8217;m judging them? They would only be able to tell if I was not able to stay professional. And, seriously, &#8220;withhold my enthusiasm&#8221;?</p>
<p>No offense Rich, but as a devout Christian why would you find yourself enthused?</p>
<p>Finally, while I&#8217;m not sure I totally agree with Mr Jeremy, I don&#8217;t know that I would rate his comments as absurd or that he&#8217;s trying to &#8220;find reasonableness in the extremes&#8221;. It seems to me that he&#8217;s taking the new criteria for marriage (simply being &#8220;in love&#8221; &#8230; whatever that means) to it&#8217;s logical conclusion. I fully believe that the vast majority of people 75 years ago would have said the idea of homosexual marriage being legal was an &#8220;absurd conclusion&#8221; also.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Willow Creek’s ‘Reveal’ study really tells us… by Mei</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/318006056/</link>
		<author>Mei</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/05/reveal/#comment-80242</guid>
		<description>hey, just came across your site.. I'm from Asia and sometimes feel that courses/ church programs like purpose driven life/together group etc. are like franchise products from the US. Whatever the small group chooses to study, I think going back to the bible and led by leaders and supported by members who have a deep knowledge of the bible is essential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, just came across your site.. I&#8217;m from Asia and sometimes feel that courses/ church programs like purpose driven life/together group etc. are like franchise products from the US. Whatever the small group chooses to study, I think going back to the bible and led by leaders and supported by members who have a deep knowledge of the bible is essential.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Will</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/314979841/</link>
		<author>Will</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-80039</guid>
		<description>Hi Rich,

This is my first visit to your blog (via Julie Neidlinger's Lone Prairie Blog), and I appreciate your effort to discern what a Christ-like response might be to the situation you describe.  I believe I would respond in much the same way.

As a former pentecostal (which makes me apostate to many, I am sure), I experienced first-hand the judgmentalism and lack of grace that many in the church of my youth demonstrated when my father (a pastor in The Church of God, Cleveland, YN) had an affair and divorced my mom.  What was especially hurtful was that both the judgment and lack of grace extended to my mom, the victim of his actions.

After leaving the Church for a few years, I determined that, when I returned to the fold, it would be to a church that demostrated more of a Christian demeanor.

Thanks for your post, and keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rich,</p>
<p>This is my first visit to your blog (via Julie Neidlinger&#8217;s Lone Prairie Blog), and I appreciate your effort to discern what a Christ-like response might be to the situation you describe.  I believe I would respond in much the same way.</p>
<p>As a former pentecostal (which makes me apostate to many, I am sure), I experienced first-hand the judgmentalism and lack of grace that many in the church of my youth demonstrated when my father (a pastor in The Church of God, Cleveland, YN) had an affair and divorced my mom.  What was especially hurtful was that both the judgment and lack of grace extended to my mom, the victim of his actions.</p>
<p>After leaving the Church for a few years, I determined that, when I returned to the fold, it would be to a church that demostrated more of a Christian demeanor.</p>
<p>Thanks for your post, and keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Common Swift</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/314084890/</link>
		<author>Common Swift</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-79935</guid>
		<description>I'm just too happy to argue. I'm getting married...La La La La La...

:: to busy ordering the crab legs for the reception to listen to the prattle from the school marms on this post ::</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just too happy to argue. I&#8217;m getting married&#8230;La La La La La&#8230;</p>
<p>:: to busy ordering the crab legs for the reception to listen to the prattle from the school marms on this post ::</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/314084891/</link>
		<author>Jeremy</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-79934</guid>
		<description>"To allow my judgment of their lifestyle to intrude on the dining experience would be failing to fulfil my obligations as a server."

So your obligation as a server involves congratulating and thereby, condoning an explicitly sinful behavior? My main argument is that you don't have to congratulate them, and that you shouldn't. But just because you don't congratulate them does not necessarily mean your are passing judgment on them. 

If you are *sincerely* congratulating this couple on their relationship, then doesn't that mean you approve of their relationship, however slightly? How can one congratulate someone or something if they disapprove of it? 

If you are insincerely congratulating this couple on their relationship, then aren't you being deceitful? 

If I were the server, I would say that the flowers and champagne are from the manager, and that the manager congratulates them on their relationship. Thus, I'm not being deceitful by congratulating them, and I, personally, am not condoning their behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To allow my judgment of their lifestyle to intrude on the dining experience would be failing to fulfil my obligations as a server.&#8221;</p>
<p>So your obligation as a server involves congratulating and thereby, condoning an explicitly sinful behavior? My main argument is that you don&#8217;t have to congratulate them, and that you shouldn&#8217;t. But just because you don&#8217;t congratulate them does not necessarily mean your are passing judgment on them. </p>
<p>If you are *sincerely* congratulating this couple on their relationship, then doesn&#8217;t that mean you approve of their relationship, however slightly? How can one congratulate someone or something if they disapprove of it? </p>
<p>If you are insincerely congratulating this couple on their relationship, then aren&#8217;t you being deceitful? </p>
<p>If I were the server, I would say that the flowers and champagne are from the manager, and that the manager congratulates them on their relationship. Thus, I&#8217;m not being deceitful by congratulating them, and I, personally, am not condoning their behavior.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gay marriage . . . and bubbly. by Carl</title>
		<link>http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Blogrodent-Comments/~3/314676470/</link>
		<author>Carl</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tatumweb.com/blog/2008/06/14/bubbly/#comment-79933</guid>
		<description>@slw - as usual going biblical

@Rich - I am not sure "Rejoice with those who rejoice" would mean celebrating the sinful union.  I am pretty sure I would have smiled and said, "wow!"  and left it at that.

And not to split hairs but I am not convinced that a believer can be a bartender.  To say one is a follower of Jesus and not be convicted of getting people drunk on vodka seems somewhat of a oxymoron.  If drunkards cannot inherit the kingdom of God how can one who creates drunkards?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@slw - as usual going biblical</p>
<p>@Rich - I am not sure &#8220;Rejoice with those who rejoice&#8221; would mean celebrating the sinful union.  I am pretty sure I would have smiled and said, &#8220;wow!&#8221;  and left it at that.</p>
<p>And not to split hairs but I am not convinced that a believer can be a bartender.  To say one is a follower of Jesus and not be convicted of getting people drunk on vodka seems somewhat of a oxymoron.  If drunkards cannot inherit the kingdom of God how can one who creates drunkards?</p>
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