Care Home Charges NI- A Personal Experience

The person who was mum

2008-01-04T20:20:00.054+00:00

Mum was gorgeous in every respect. She had a heart of gold - nothing was too much trouble. I remember leaving school at 3.00 p.m (when I was 8 or 9). She was standing at the school gate with about 15 heavy winter coats bundled over her arms. It had been raining heavily all afternoon, it was dark and dismal. The morning had been bright and sunny and we had all gone off to school without our overcoats. Mum decided she would meet my sisters/brother and I at the school gate with our coats, that is not only ours, but coats for the children of about half a dozen other families living in our street. She had knocked on all their doors saying she would take any coats. It was a long walk from home to school. It must have been a dreadful journey trying to walk with a very heavy bundle in her arms, trying to keep them dry under an umbrella. Nobody else had ventured out. She distributed all the coats and we all walked home, drier and warmer in one big happy, chatty, group due to mum's love and generosity.

Going even further back, mum came from a very, large, loving family and a Christian home. Her mum and dad were the epitome of love. Mum often told us this story. When she and dad were newly married they had gone for a drink in one of the local pubs. One of mum's old neighbours saw her there and remarked that it wasn't a place he thought he would ever have seen her. This greatly upset and worried mum. The following day when she saw her mum she mentioned that .... had seen her in the pub and the remark he had made. What a sensible lady gran was. She asked mum who she had been with, 'Alan of course' mum said. 'Did you do anybody any harm or were you and Alan drunk? 'No' said mum well then said gran, you were out with your husband, having a quiet drink, you have nothing to be ashamed of'. If only I had such wisdom ....

Candy Apples

As children we loved Halloween. Mum made candy apples. We used to crowd round the stove as she melted the butter and sugar, ready with the newly bought apples and lolly pop sticks. She kept a small saucer of water on the bench to drop some hot toffee into, to see when it was ready... we couldn't wait!! Some of the candy apples were dipped in coconut - they were delicious. We always had a family party playing all the 'old fashioned' games. Dunking for apples, apple on a string with hands behind back to see if you could bite it. Apple tarts, sweets, ice cream and a host of other delicacies to eat. We were NOT allowed to go collecting round the neighbourhood for Halloween, although many other children came to our door chanting:-

"Halloween's coming on and the goose is getting fat, will you please put a penny in the old man's hat, if you haven't got a penny a halfpenny will do, if you haven't got a halfpenny, God bless you and your old man too" Sweets and money were kept for such Halloweeners.

We remember it well, mum's apple tarts and savoury pies were the best, she baked them regularly. Good old fashioned homemade broth was also a regular.

Taking Care of Mum/Dad

2008-01-03T13:28:00.017+00:00

Choosing a care/residential or nursing home is not easy. Some may be set in beautiful grounds, some may look quite old and worn out and others may be modern with wonderful views over the countryside. Do not take any of this into consideration when choosing any of the above. Yes you want lovely surroundings etc but the most important point of all is the care your loved one will receive. Staff, their attitude and how they treat the residents is all important.

Step One:-

View as many homes as possible. Call in unannounced. Talk to residents and more importantly their families. Look at the rooms. Do the residents look well cared for, clean, tidy and get the attention they deserve? Speak with staff - nurses, carers, kitchen and cleaning staff, - ask plenty of questions. You will get a feel of what is right. Are the current residents able to chat/talk? (One of the homes we were looking at for mum was set up on a hill with views over the city. It looked impressive but most of the residents who were able to communicate stayed in their rooms all day and played music or watched television. The residents who sat in the lounge could not communicate). This wasn't for mum. She was chatty and liked company). Call in at night, see how many night staff are on duty. We did not find the night nursing staff in one particular nursing home very helpful. Everything was too much trouble. If necessary call back to the various homes as many times as you need before making your decision. It's not easy but the more work you put in at the start the more you will be able to gauge if it's right for your loved one.

Second step:-

Will your loved one be happy there? Is there plenty for them to do? Are they able to get out and about? What activities do the home provide during the day? How often do the activities take place? Is it all a big con! Call in during activity times to see what is happening.

Third step:-

Make your decision.

---oOo---

NB It's not easy making the right decision. The home we chose for mum was small - the staff wonderful but we still kept them on their toes. Mum was the most important sum in the equation. If we didn't like something we brought it to the attention of the Home Manager and staff. They were all very hard working and did their best but there was never enough staff to ratio of residents. This unfortunately is a widespread problem. We didn't have a set time for visiting mum. We called in to see her at all times of the day and night and NEVER missed a day. The Care Home staff didn't know when we'd pop in or how long we'd stay. We also telephoned to speak to mum. Staff were aware of our high standards with regards to mum's care and knew we would be questioning anything we were unhappy with or didn't like. We did this in a friendly, diplomatic but firm way. Mum was very thankful for the care the staff gave her and always thanked them as we did. We always made sure we talked to all the staff and thanked them all appropriately for what they were doing in what is a difficult situation for all. The staff at times were hard pressed to deal with everybody but we made sure they considered and dealt with mum regardless of their workload. IT WORKED.

There is some very useful information on this blog which may prove of help.

No need for a Solicitor

2008-01-02T18:54:00.012+00:00

To personally go for probate is easy. Get relevant leaflets/guidance from your Probate office. It is laborious but could save your loved one's Estate thousands of pounds. You can do it just as easily as a Solicitor. In fact you can probably do it a lot quicker and a lot more efficiently. Read all the information and go forward.

When mum died I did all the letter writing to the various organisations i.e Bank, Insurance Company, Pension, TV license etc. etc. I would advise getting several certified copies of the death certificate as this will save stacks of time, thereby avoiding having to wait for one to come back before sending it off somewhere else. You will be pleasantly surprised. Organisations can and do pay out small amounts of monies on the production of a certified copy of the death certificate. Cheques will be made payable to your loved ones Estate. As Executor you may need to open an account to receive all monies due, or you could use an existing savings/bank account of your loved one . Larger amounts may need a little more effort, letter writing etc. One of the larger banks in NI insisted that my sister needed a Solicitor - we knew otherwise, asked the Probate office for the leaflet 'How to obtain Probate without a Solicitor' and sent it to the Bank Manager of the relevant branch we were dealing with. We requested an apology and reiterated that their counter staff needed to be made aware of relevant procedures. Again, we 'took on the professionals', having gained vast experience when dealing with "mum's" Health Care Trust. Why pay a Solicitior, possibly thousands of pounds, when we could do it ourselves - the only cost being time!

I have taken the information below from the Probate Office website, it sounds more complicated than it is. My sister rang the local Probate office and received guidance notes. She gathered together everything they asked for, kept it all neat and tidy and made sure when she posted forms/documents back that nothing was omitted.

How to obtain probate - A guide for people acting without a solicitor

The Probate Service administers the system of probate, which gives people the legal right to handle the estate (for example, money, possessions and property) of a deceased person. This information will advise you how to obtain probate without using a solicitor. If you have any queries, please contact your local probate registry. The staff are there to help you.

Introduction

When a person dies, they usually leave an estate (including money, possessions and property) and sometimes a will. A will should name one or more executors who are responsible for collecting in all the money, paying any debts and distributing any legacies left to individuals or organisations. In order to access the estate, the executor needs to apply to the probate registry for a document called a Grant of Representation or ‘grant’. This process is called probate. The grant establishes who can legally collect money from banks, building societies and other organisations which hold assets belonging to the deceased person. In most cases, applying for probate is a straightforward procedure. The aforementioned applies in England and Wales. If the deceased person was permanently resident in Scotland or Northern Ireland it's just as easy. My sister obtained probate in N.I - without using a solicitor).

There are three types of Grant of Representation:

Probate

Probate is issued by the Probate Service to the executor(s) named in the deceased person’s will.

Letters of Administration (with Will)

Letters of Administration (with Will) are issued when no executor is named in the Will, or when the executors are unable or unwilling to apply for the grant.

Letters of Administration

Letters of Administration are issued when the deceased person has not made a Will, or the Will they have made is not valid. Is a grant always needed?

Not every estate needs a grant. A grant may not be needed if:

• the home is held in joint names and is passing by survivorship to the other joint owner(s). This can be the case for married couples and those in a legal civil partnership or even a mother and daughter etc.
• there is a joint bank or building society account. In this case, the bank may only need to see the death certificate, in order to arrange for the money to be transferred to the other joint owner. However, a grant could still be needed to access assets held in other bank accounts or insurance policies.
• the amount held in each account was very small. You will need to check with the organisations (banks, building societies or insurance companies) involved to find out if they will release the assets without a grant. All the organisations my family dealt with did.

If none of the circumstances above apply, a grant may be required. You should ask anyone holding the deceased’s money (such as a bank or insurance company) whether they will release it to you without seeing a grant. If they agree, they may attach conditions such as asking you to sign a statutory declaration before a solicitor. You can decide whether it is cheaper or easier to do this than to apply for a grant. Please note that a grant must be presented in order to sell or transfer a property held in the deceased’s sole name or a share of a property held jointly with the deceased person’s spouse or partner as tenants-in-common. Tenancy-in-common is a written agreement between two people who own a joint asset (usually land or buildings). Normally, a married couple does not have a tenancy-in-common contract. You cannot complete a sale on any property owned by a deceased person until the grant has been issued. Properties named in a Will should not be put up for sale until a grant has been obtained.

Who can apply for probate?

Only one person needs to apply for Probate – normally the executor(s) named in the Will. However, if the person entitled to the estate is under 18, two people are legally required to apply for probate. If this is the case The Probate Office will let you know when they receive your application.

You can apply for probate if you are over the age of 18 and:
• you are an executor named in the Will;
• you are named in the Will to receive some or all of the estate (if there are no executors, or if the executors are unable or unwilling to apply);
• the deceased person did not make a Will and you are their next of kin, in the following order of priority:
- lawful husband or wife or civil partner (a civil partnership is defined as a partnership between two people of the same sex which has been registered in accordance with the Civil Partnership Act 2004). Common law partners cannot apply for probate.
- sons or daughters (excluding step-children) including children adopted by the deceased. (Children adopted out of the family can only apply in the estates of their adoptive parents and not their biological parents.)
- parents
- brothers or sisters
- grandparents
- uncles or aunts
- If sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, uncles or aunts of the deceased person have died before the deceased, their children may apply for probate.

If you are not sure whether you are entitled to apply for a grant, you should still complete and return the forms and the Probate Office will tell you. If you are a distant relative, please supply a brief family tree showing your relationship to the deceased person. When more than one person wants to apply for a grant, they may make a joint application. A maximum of four applicants is allowed and they will all have to attend an interview with the Probate Service.

Where will I find the Will?

The original will may be held at a solicitor’s office or bank, or it may be among the deceased person’s possessions. If you cannot find it, contact your local Probate Registry. If you do not send the Will, your application will take longer to deal with.
The Probate Office will not return the original will to you as it becomes a public record once it has been proved (acted on). They will, however, send you an official copy of the Will with the Grant of Representation.

What if I don’t want to apply for a grant?

Executors may choose to give up all their rights to probate or they may reserve the right, called power reserved, to apply for probate in the future. This option is often used when the executors live in different parts of the country or it is not convenient for one of them to attend the interview due to work commitments. Only the executor(s) who attend the interview will be named on the grant and only their signature will be required to release the deceased person’s assets for transfer or sale. If the person who is entitled to the grant does not wish to apply, they may appoint someone else to be their attorney to obtain the grant on their behalf. If this is the case you should complete their details on form. The Probate Office will send you a form for them to sign after they receive your application. If the person entitled to the grant has already signed an Enduring Power of Attorney (EPA) or a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) please file the original document with your application.

Note – A LPA must be registered with the Office of the Public Guardianship before it can be used.

You can contact them at: www.publicguardian.gov.uk or by calling 0845 330 2900.

Why do I need to think about inheritance tax now?

The tax on the estate of a person who has died is called inheritance tax. It is dealt with by HM Revenue and Customs (Capital Taxes). It only applies to a very small percentage of estates. If inheritance tax is due, you normally have to pay at least some of the tax before the grant. The issue of the grant does not mean that HM Revenue and Customs (Capital Taxes) have agreed the final Inheritance Tax liability. They will usually contact you again after you have received the grant. Subject to the requirements to pay some of the tax before obtaining the grant, inheritance tax is due six months after the end of the month in which the person died. HM Revenue and Customs (Capital Taxes) will charge interest on unpaid tax from this due date whatever the reason for late payment. Probate Registry staff are not trained to deal with queries about HM Revenue and Customs forms or inheritance tax. If you have any queries about these Probate staff should be able to furnish you with relevant telephone numbers.

How do I apply for a grant?

You will need to follow the process explained here:

Complete the application form

You will need to complete Probate Application form, using Guidance Leaflet.

You can also get these forms from your nearest probate registry or by calling the Probate and Inheritance Tax Helpline

Complete the tax form

When you apply for the grant, you will need to complete a tax form whether or not inheritance tax is owed. Decide how many official sealed copies of the Grant of Representation you need
Organisations like banks and building societies need to see sealed copies of the grant before they can release substantial assets to you. They won’t accept unsealed photocopies. So if you want to deal with the estate quickly, you may want to order enough sealed copies of the grant to send to all the organisations you are dealing with at the same time.

If any person or organisation holding assets insists on seeing an official copy of the grant, you can write to the probate registry, which issued the grant to order more sealed copies. However, these will cost more than those ordered at the time of application so it’s important to decide before you apply for the grant how many copies you will need.

Make sure you enclose the correct documents. You will need to enclose:

• An official copy (not a photocopy) of the death certificate issued by the Registrar of Births Deaths and Marriages or a coroner’s certificate.
• The original Will and any codicils (or any document in which the deceased person expresses any wishes about the distribution of his or her estate). Keep a copy of any Will or codicil you send. Please do not attach anything to the Will by staple, pin etc. or remove any fastenings from the Will.
• Any other documents specifically requested by the Probate Service, such as a decree absolute.
• A cheque made payable to ‘HMCS’ for the application fee, together with the cost of the number of official sealed grants you require. (Your application will not be processed until fee is paid.

Where should I send my application?

You should send your application to the probate registry of your choice. You may wish to send your application by registered or recorded post.

Processing the application

When your application is received, it will be examined and you will be contacted if there are any queries. If you want the Probate Office to acknowledge your application, please send a stamped addressed envelope.

If your application is complicated, they may require you to sign additional documents or contact other people – for example, a witness to a Will – so that they can interview them or obtain their signatures on documents to help with your application. If there are no problems, they will arrange a15 minute interview with you. This interview is usually held within a month of receiving your application. If you are applying for a grant with someone else and they cannot come with you, the Probate Office can arrange for them to attend an interview separately at a different location if necessary. This will, however, delay the time it takes to issue your grant.

What happens at the interview?

The interview is simply to confirm the details you have given on the forms and to answer any queries which the Probate Office may have. You will be asked to sign a form of oath and to swear or affirm before the interviewing officer that the information you have given is true to the best of your knowledge. You will be given the opportunity to swear on the religious book of your choice.
Please bring proof of identification which includes a photograph (such as your driving licence or passport) to the interview. Your appointment letter will tell you about any other identification which is required. The interview is your chance to tell the interviewing officer if your case is urgent or if you wish to collect the grant in person.

What happens after the interview?

If everything goes smoothly, the Probate Office will send you the original death certificate and the interviewing officer should be able to let you know how long matters will take.
If it is not possible to issue a grant, they will explain the reasons.
They will retain the original Will.

How do I use the grant?

When the grant has been issued you will receive information concerning your role as the executor. You will then have the legal right to ask any person or organisation holding the deceased person’s money or property to give you access to those assets. Those assets can then be released, sold or transferred as set out in the deceased person’s Will.
All grants of representation are public records.

The responsibility of the Probate Service ends when the grant is issued, and they cannot advise you on how to administer the estate.

To obtain Probate is E-A-S-Y. Complete the forms carefully, send or deliver them to the Probate Office with original Will and certified copy of death certificate, request a receipt. If the Probate Office have any queries, they will contact you, if not they will advise you of date/time of interview. THERE IS NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF - IT'S STRAIGHTFORWARD. My sister did it without any prior knowledge, neither she nor the Probate Office had any queries because she took her time filling in forms and ensured all documents asked for were enclosed with the application.

Useful contacts

For general information on Wills and probate:www.direct.gov.uk/en/RightsAndResponsibilities/Death/index.htm
For information about the Probate Service and to access the online forms and leaflets:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/civil/probate/index.htm

To find the addresses of the regional probate registries:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/civil/probate/registries.htm
For information about inheritance tax and online forms:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/cto
For more detailed information about probate and inheritance tax:
Probate and Inheritance Tax Helpline:
0845 3020900
To write to the Probate and Inheritance Tax Helpline:
Ferrers House
PO Box 38
Castle Meadow Road
Nottingham NG2 1BB
Probate forms and leaflets
PA1 Probate application form
PA1A Probate application form (guidance notes)
PA2 How to obtain probate (leaflet)
PA3 Probate fees list (leaflet)
PA4 Directory of probate registries and interview venues (leaflet)
PA5 Do I need a grant of representation (probate or letters of administration)? (leaflet)
PA6 What will happen at my probate appointment? (leaflet)
PA7 How to deposit a will with the Probate Service (leaflet)
PA7A Withdrawing your will from the Principal Probate Registry (form)
PA8 How to enter a caveat (leaflet)
PA8A How to enter a caveat (form)
PA9 How to enter a general search (leaflet)
PA10 How to enter a standing search (leaflet)
PA1S Application for a probate search (form)
HMRC Inheritance Tax forms
IHT205 Account of the estate
IHT206 Account of the estate (guidance notes)
IHT200 HM Revenue and Customs Account
PA2 How to obtain probate - A guide for people acting without a solicitor (04.08) © Crown copyright 2008