Chiang Mai Thai

So when did kha (ค่ะ) become jao (เจ้า) ?

2013-03-03T19:47:00.000+07:00

So, when does kha (ค่ะ) become jao (เจ้า) ?

A regional question and the short answer is “I have no idea.” However, noting the differences between the north and everywhere else, can be both frustrating and fun.

We've just returned from our mid to north Thailand road trip and I didn't hear or say jao until we hit Chiang Mai. Mind you, just south of Lampang the words ซาวบาท (saao bàat / 20 baht) did surface in a conversation. A truly Lanna characteristic, along with lam dtaae dtaae ลำแต้ๆ, not sure about the dtaae dtaae spelling, but the response I received was often positive and smiley.

On returning home I started to seriously question the smiley responses. Northern Thai is not the easiest subject to research :( I began to wonder if I was making some amusing reference to ships or trees in some way. Googling images I’m relieved to find that most of the results are (delicious looking) food related images.

"....alllloy, alllloy, mai arrrroy!" which was theatrically played out to me in a Chiang Rai village market by a lovely older lady, with loads of make up, and hair being held captive in a floral shower cap. 'Very delicious' - official Thai versus spoken Thai.

It was privately amusing to revisit a hair dresser in Chiang Mai, who two years ago I nearly toppled off her swivel chair by greeting her with 'sawadee jao', in a (proudly) believable northern accent, while her back was turned to me.

I’m at Sunday Night Walking street market in Chiang Mai, staring at a T-Shirt with embroidered Thai writing …silently mouthing letter by letter, vowel by vowel. When the penny drops I ask “JJJiang Mai?”

The stall owner says “Yes.”

Quizzical tilted head look. “จ. จาน jor-jaan?”

“Yes, it’s old Thai.” It is???? I’ll take her word for it.

When we were in Nong Khai, just near the Loas border, 'ja' did seem to be used as a polite response (by the ladies) more often then kha (ค่ะ) is spoken in most other places.

All in all, I was extremely happy with the amount of spoken Thai I remembered after 1 ½ years. And, for some reason, not feeling any self inflicted pressure, I felt more confident in coming forward when need be.

Written Thai, on the other hand, almost made me weep. When we first landed my eyes went into spasms. I could hardly recognise any of the letters or vowels. But, by the end of 3 weeks most of it (enough contextual text) started to seep back.

Happy days!

Cheers! สเนป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Another resource for learning Thai

2013-01-05T14:04:00.001+07:00

If you are or thinking about learning Thai, you might find this a valuable resource.

Learn2SpeakThai

I haven't reviewed it myself as yet, but will really soon, as we prepare to revisit the land of smiles!

Cheers! สเนป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

When does kha (ค่ะ) become jao (เจ้า) ?

2012-05-23T17:34:00.001+07:00

We're bbbaaacckkk :)

We'll be looping from Bangkok to northern Thailand and back, via another route. Hence, the question, when does kha (ค่ะ) become jao (เจ้า) ?

I've been in both parts of Thailand, but never travelled by land through the twighlight zone. We're expecting to ride due north from BKK and return down the eastern side of LOS.

Any ideas of what to see, what to do?

Cheers! สเนป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Oh, to be two years old again

2012-04-07T08:30:00.001+07:00

Getting reacquainted with our grandpumpkin, who will be two in a few weeks, has reminded me about the frustrations of learning a new language.

The importance of contextual speech and frequency of the word, is key to translating. For instance, it's obvious if that little hand of her's wriggles its way into yours and she says 'boor' (over and over again) that she's saying 'walk'. Dropping my 'sheeeews' at my feet is a pretty blatant clue, also.

Or, if she's crept off the naughty mat and is pleading "shewshebla nanoo shweesha ay nanoo" that 'nanoo' = 'naughty'. (She's very big on the 'sh' words) This, reinforced by an excitable and very serious (toy) phone conversation shortly after, where 'nanoo' is repeated several times.

Growing up with two different accents. Her Dad is Stoke on Trent English, our CJ, Australian, so there are definite different pronunciations of particular words. I hadn't thought of how this will effect her early language learning until yesterday, while trying to encourage her to say our friend's name...Luke.

However, every time we repeated his name, she swung her head around to see what we were telling her to 'look' at.

'Bup' is obviously 'up'...because she's raising her arms, but it also doubles as 'down'. 'Mum' is always her name for her actual Mum, but it's also a word she uses when seeking safety and a command or request for when she wants help or a task performed...poor Mums.

Of course, she (unlike us) has an advantage, as we, those who surround her, make an effort to understand her and translate grandpumpkin speak into English.

And, why is it that I've never met a child who learns to 'yes' before they've learnt to say 'no'?

Cheers! สเนป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Before we leave Siem Reap

2012-03-26T15:32:00.001+07:00

"The language. A native Bangkokian recently said to me that Khmer reminded him of 'rock n roll'. Until then I thought I was the only one that visualised languages. Khmer to me was like someone plucking a banjo, Deliverance style...and from time to time, I could have sworn I'd recognised some (Thai) notes. Possibly, but more than likely, not. Malaysian conjures up a pot of something really thick bubbling away on the stove, but that's another post."

To read more about our time in Siem Reap and Cambodia, hop over to Cooee!

Cheers!
สเนป

Learning Thai On The Run - Android App

2012-03-19T16:51:00.001+07:00

Writing this post on a smart phone keyboard isn't the easiest task for this oldish touch typist with failing eye sight. However, using Paiboon's Thai English Thai Dictionary Android App is a cinch.

For a (including mine) full review visit WLT. A must have for both holiday makers and serious students of the Thai language.

Cheers!
สเนป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Not learning Thai

2012-02-06T06:54:00.000+07:00

I can't believe it's been over three months since we left the land of smiles. Studying Thai after returning to Australia was always an unknown, the how, the when, the what and the will we? We knew it would be more difficult, not being surrounded by the language everyday, not having native speakers to answer our questions and it being absolutely unnecessary here. That and settling back into your old life, really does slow a person down.

After the first few weeks of being in limbo land and reverse culture shock, Stray started pushing to continue with our studies. Every morning, before I'd well and truly woken up with my second cup of coffee, before I knew it, he'd have our Thai books out and quizzing me or start talking to me in Thai. Tricky, yes, but it worked. And, for a few more weeks we continued like that. Watching Youtube videos, writing down new words and utilising free online learning resources. Most of which are listed on WLT, thanks to Catherine, who is relentless in tracking them down and finding new sites for us learners.

However, as time goes by and my work increases, and visitors come and go and come and go, (and I have to do my own laundry ;) I find it increasingly more challenging to find the time and the energy to continue to learn Thai. The good news is, we still speak Thai (when the words come to us) and we haven't forgotten much (I don't think), and have even added a couple of new words/phrases to our vocabulary.

The solution is simply 'discipline'. Discipline to make time and keep a routine/schedule. Structure!

Cheers! สเนป
See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Thanks for everything. Leaving Chiang Mai

2011-10-23T22:19:00.000+07:00

As it came closer to the time to leave Chiang Mai (a couple of days ago), I started thinking about how to say goodbye in Thai. I don't just mean สวัสดีค่ะ sà~wàt-dee-kâ, but more along the lines of "Thanks for everything." Like I'd say in Australian.

I thought about translating it directly...but I wasn't sure if I could do that?, so didn't say it.

ขอบคุณสำหรับทุกสิ่ง/kòp kun săm-ràp túk sìng
Literally - thank you for everything.

However, when I sought the advice of a Thai friend he came back with simply 'thank you'. But for me it didn't seem quite enough.

ขอให้มีความสุข/kŏr hâi mee kwaam sùk
Literally - request to be happy

was the second option he gave me, which I understand to mean 'Wish you happiness.'..or if you believe Google 'Have a good time.'

When crunch time came I was happy that I could say that 'I was going home, and on what day and that I might return in ?????'...not happy that I was leaving, but happy that I'd learnt the words. Stray used...

ผมคิดถึงคุณแล้ว/pŏm kít tĕung kun láew
Literally - I miss you already

...a few times, which did recieve a few giggles.

Mostly as I said farewell (to non-English speakers),

โชคดีนะ/chôhk-dee ná
Literally - good luck + polite particle, was a common response. So, for now it's...

สวัสดีค่ะเชียงใหม่/sà~wàt-dee-kâ chiang-mài
Literally - Goodbye Chiang Mai!

...and I'm off to redesign this blog header.

Cheers!
สเนป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

I can't believe I've been spelling my name wrong.

2011-10-06T09:50:00.003+07:00

How embarrassing!

For many months now I've been calling myself 'smap' without realising it. What a difference a little loop makes. Gotta stop copying and pasting...especially spelling errors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Cheers!
สเนป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

When learn language websites behave badly.

2011-10-04T18:48:00.002+07:00

“It is normal that American people from the north do not fully understand those from the south. The way of life, climate and everything all impact pronunciation.”

But, rest assured...

“We have example of online English conversation in different situations that you likely to use oftenly.”

Learn how to use tenses and grammar....

“I hit him at the back yesterday.
He was hit by me at the back yesterday.

A pen is under the table.
I have two pens in my pockey.

John is kicked by me
They are cooked by Marry.

Jim is a little nervous when he on the stage yesterday.

Our group have different oppinion on where to go today.

I will have jumped to the water if the bear will come."

And... “if you want to speak english fluently. You can visit our conversation corner...”

“How long do we have to wait? Arond five to ten minutes”

“Can I site here? It's ok for me.”

“Excuse me. Do you mind taking us pictures?”

"I heard you are going to have an exam tomorrow. Yes, I'm quite worry about it.”

“Shalle we postpone?”

Learn the meanings of popular idioms....

“A hot potato = A hot issue that people are talking about
Eating someone = Disturbing someone
Backup the wrong horse = Support the wrong person, team or side.
Egg on the facel = To be embarrassed
Eata humble pie = Admit on something
Fly a kite = Test reaction of the idea
In black and white = Formal (dress)
Jockey the position = Try to train or someone to be best in their job/position
Jungle out there = Something are dangerous outside
X rate (Rate X) = Too aggressive
Panic stations = Very exciting situation”

Learn by watching movies... “Right, the thing is you don't just watch it but you have to watch by learning purpose to create more useful entertainment.... The steps may annoy your emotion but if you want to learn English you better follow below steps. Otherwise, you may lost your time and effort without nothing.”

“At xxxxxschool, we believe that memory cannot take you any far in English learning journey.” “Listenning skill is one of the most difficult among all other English learning skill because it gives you the least time for your brain to process.”

“Everyone loves playing game so why waste your time with a non-sense online game, if you can play English Game Online with us.”

Try your hand at some multiple choice quizzes...

“Our effort is good to a/an/the environment.
Don't look at a/an/the sun with your bear eyes?
I earn many/much/both money this year.
We are so hungry. There is little/a little/few food left?”

“It was my pressure to meet you.” But, for now I’m going back to my “Ivory tower = A perfect, and unreal, place where everyone dream to stay.”

The not so funny thing about this website is that it appears to be mainly a vehicle for advertising, and that people are actually consulting it and its forum. Think I scoured the site for hours looking for errors? Think again...it was hard to stop (copying and pasting) at just the few examples in this post.

Related posts Note to self #2

Cheers!
สเนป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Note To Self 2 - Learning Thai(land)

2011-09-18T15:20:00.001+07:00

Don’t believe everything you read AND use more than one Thai language reference resource to verify its meaning and use.

I shout myself a massage about once every two months. And, after yesterday’s, which was outstanding, the owner of the place asked me "How was it?"

“พอดี (por dee) ” I said, with which she gave me a disappointingly blank stare. So, I tried saying it again a couple times, altering it a little each time. Nup, still nothing!

“Perfect” I said, and with that, a look of relief came across her face. I was befuddled for a short while after, because I’m sure I was saying it correctly and had only learnt it that morning in a vocabulary list in one of my lesson files. How hard can it be? I know these two words separately, and use them often.

พอดี = ‘perfect’, the file said. WELL, NO, IT DOESN’T!!!!! And, after reviewing the lesson (about food), the word พอดี in the vocabulary section isn’t used again...anywhere, so I had no context to refer to.

พอดี = ‘just enough, just sufficient, good enough’.

I suppose if someone’s asking you “Would you like some more (food)?”, 'พอดี' might be an appropriate response. Or, if you're ordering a meal, you could say 'เผ็ดพอดี' (spicy just enough...medium heat).

BUT, if someone has just given you a really heavenly massage, I reckon พอดี would mean PRETTY AVERAGE. I really should have known better, it being a compound of ‘adequate/enough + good’. However, compound words don’t always equate to the sum of their two or more parts. Sometimes they’re totally unrelated and make you wonder who was thinking what the hell, when the word evolved...I guess that’s why they’re referred to as idiomatic compounds.

pen = mouth + crow / ปาก + กา / pbàhk + gah
rudder = tail + tiger / หาง + เสือ / hǎhng + sǔea
responsible = get + wrong + like / รับผิดชอบ / ráp-pìt-châwp
parrot = bird + glass / นก + แก้ว / nók + gâeo
cashew = seed + mango + Himapan (in north India) / เม็ด + มะม่วง + หิมพานต์ / mét +mámôoang + hǐmmápahn

I am however extremely grateful that most compound words (คำประสม / word + mix, add) in Thai, are what they say they are, or close to it!

Anyway, I think I’ve written พอดี

BTW, if you're looking to get a massage in Chiang Mai, I can recommend Saija.

Redupli-upli-cations - Double Trouble in Thai

2011-09-09T00:22:00.000+07:00

Reduplication, in linguistics, is a morphological process by which the root or stem of a word, or part of it, is repeated. Wiki Not unlike ha, ha, ha :) bye-bye, choo-choo, night-night, no-no, pee-pee, poo-poo....and other forms.

In Thai we know this function is indicated by 'ๆ' (ไม้ยมก) mái-yá~mók. However it takes on several different forms.

After leaving comments on Josh Sager’s blog (on a post about reduplication, I'd first visited quite a few months ago), I found a book on Google (via WLT) ‘A reference grammar of Thai’ and spent hours reading... what was available online. Reduplication it seems is more diverse and fluster worthy, than I initially imagined.

Most of the information below was sourced from Reference Grammar of Thai and past learning, along with some interesting publications from the shelves of our global village.

1. Simple Reduplication – emphasizing as in 'very' or 'more'

มากๆ /mâak mâak/ much much - very much

ช้าๆ / cháh-cháh / slow slow – slowly, more slow

2. Softening or Generalisation Reduplication - can lessen the subject to the equivalent of the English suffix –ish. It can also indicate an approximation.

น้ำเย็นๆ / nám yen yen / water + cold + cold = coolish water ¹

เก่าๆ / kàw kàw / old (things) + old (things) = oldish ²

อยู่แถวาๆ สะพาน / yòo tháae tháae sà-pahn / is + around + around + bridge = is around the (area of the) bridge ³*

3. Simple Reduplication - singular into a plural or a collective

เด็กๆ / dèk-dèk / children

หนังสือดีๆ / năng-sŭe dii dii /good books

OK, that last one really stumped me, because to me it reads 'very good book', singular!

Note from Thai Language Wiki

"Noun + stative verb reduplicated = Depending on the context, reduplication of the stative verb may result in, well, any of the above." ^

4. Simple Reduplication – to indicate the succession of sounds or events

พรำๆ / pram-pram / sound of continuous falling rain

ซู่ๆ /sôo-sôo / sound of rain

ติ๊กๆ / dtík-dtík / sound of clock ticking

(And then of course we see it used in informal settings (chats/forums), in multiples ๆๆๆๆๆๆๆๆ and I presume that it’s sort of the equivalent to !!!!!!!!!!!! in English.)

So how do we know which of the 4 effects (above) the reduplication symbol will have on the word it follows?

I've asked my Thai friends and according to them, we/they can't...it's one of those things they 'just know'. However, this might be a start (?) but I’ve yet to give the theory a run for its money.⁶

And then there are reduplications that don’t use the ๆ symbol, because the words repeated are not identical.

5. Complex Reduplication – literally a high tonal emphasis on the first word

ดี๊ดี /dée-dee / good good / very good

ด๊ำดำ/ dám-dam / black black / very black ⁴

5.a. high tonal emphasis on the second of three words

เดินเดิ๊นเดิน / dern dérn dern / walk walk walk = continue walking ⁵

นอนน๊อนนอน / nawn náwn nawn / sleep sleep sleep = get much sleep

6. Alliterative Reduplication – (word play) Alliteration - The repetition of consonants at the beginning of two or more words immediately succeeding each other, or at short intervals.

จริง / jing / really – จริงอ้ง / jing-jong / seriously

หม้อ / mâw / pot - หม้อเหม้อ / mâw-mêe / pots and things

7. Symantic reduplication – two different words with the same meaning, said consecutively and equal the same meaning.

สวยงาม / sǒoay-ngahm / beautiful + beautiful. Just like we might say 'pretty beautiful'.

ชัยชนะ / chai-chá-ná / victory + win

เล็กน้อย / lék-náwy / small + a little

If you've made it all the way down to the bottom of this post you're either an insomniac, bored out of your skull or ridiculously entheusiastic about reduplication.

Either way, I'll leave you on a lighter note with an English version of reduplication:

Shm-reduplication...baby shmaby, apple shmapple, cheers shmeers!

And without repeating myself :) I'd love to hear what you think/know or if I have it all horribly wrong.

¹Learn Thai With Mod
² Reduplication and Metathesis - Reduplication: Functions

^{3, 4, 5, 6}ALR Nedo Tokyo Virach

*แถวา – I couldn’t find this word in any other reference materials

^ Thai Language Wiki

Note To Self 1 - Learning Thai(land)

2011-08-26T20:03:00.001+07:00

Stop asking the question WHY? your Vivite deodorant not only has a whitening agent in it, but also a UV protection ingredient. Just accept that some people in Thailand might like to walk around with their armpits facing the sun.

Vivite deodorant advertisement Who knew armpits could be so sexy?

Cheers!

สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Farang, falang - let me count the ways.

2011-08-19T23:35:00.004+07:00

Recently a friend of ours jokingly referred to his beer as น้ำฝรั่ง nám fà~ràng, meaning liquid that ‘we’ Caucasians like...but it actually translates to guava juice. Nám (water/liquid/juice) + fà~ràng (guava or, westerner...hardly think they’ve squeezed and bottled us
.
You know, when you come from a society that is politically correct to the point of absurdity, referring to someone by their race...all the time...everyday...many times a day, would be considered rude, if not racist.

But here, it’s just how it is. It doesn’t intend to cause offence, unless of course it’s accompanied by other words...like farang 'no good!' I think Stray’s reconsidering that he overheard and responded (in Thai) to a negative comment out on the street. Perhaps the guy was just asking his mate for chewing gum????

I think I mentioned previously, the paranoia I felt in a fruit and veggie department, when being shadowed by an elderly lady who kept repeating falang, falang, falang...that was before I knew the word for potato ;)

However, I wish I knew more Thai six months ago when browsing through a small trendy shop with my Mum (only her and I in the store), and the word ‘falang’ rang out at least a dozen times in our five minute visit. Even if I don’t understand all that’s being said, NOW, I could still scare the bejeebers out of the sales girls with my pidgin Thai...is that evil?

Bless the lovely loo attendant at Chiang Rai's White Temple, who ushered me into a ห้องน้ำฝรั่ง (falang toilet)...just joshing, I think I made that word up...but she did.

This post was actually partly inspired by MJKlein , who commented on my last post: “once in Lao, we saw some bread being delivered to a restaurant. the writing on the box said "baguette farang" lol!”

That would be ขนมปังฝรั่งเศส (kà-nŏm bpang fà-ràng sàyt) – French bread!

Farang, falang...let me count the ways. So, far I have 14 including the two above and not including plain old references to French, France or Western/ers whatever!

ฝรั่ง fà~ràng: guava (not the guava as I know it), with the fruit classifier of ผล or ลูก, for small round thingys

ฝรั่ง fà~ràng: spelt the same way, except with the classifier of khon/คน, for us white folk.

ฝรั่งเศส fà~ràng-sàyt: for French people or France.

มันฝรั่ง man-fà~ràng: (Irish? OK, I admit they have the monopoly on them) potatoes...coz, farang love em’.

มันฝรั่งแผ่นทอดกรอบ man-fà~ràng-pàen-tâwt-gràwp: potato crisps.

มันฝรั่งทอด man-fà~ràng-tâwt: hot (fried) potato chips

หมากฝรั่ง màhk-fà~ràng: chewing gum.หมาก = betel nut, which is chewed...and farang like chewing gum.

หน่อไม้ฝรั่ง nàw-máai-fà~ràng: asparagus. A plant shoot + stick + farang...not sure, did they come from France?

ระนาดฝรั่ง rá~nâht-fà~ràng: Thai xylophone + farang = not a Thai xylophone ;)

หมากรุกฝรั่ง màhk-róok-fà~ràng: chess is obviously a white man’s game?

ผักชีฝรั่ง pàk-chee-fà~ràng: parsley. Cilantro/coriander + farang.

แตรฝรั่ง dtrae fà-ràng: a clarion or trumpet of the farang kind.

บุ้งฝรั่ง bûng fà-ràng: Western Caterpillar or morning glory, depending on your resources, oi!

And, last of all, my personal favourite ดีเกลือฝรั่ง dee gleua fà-ràng: magnesium sulphate – Epsom salts + farang.

Whether the word originated from the mispronunciation of ‘France’ (or adapted in reverse), ‘Franks’ (the Crusaders), or the Persian word ‘farangg’, ‘firangi’ from North India or ‘parangiar’ in Tamil, the Khmer version ‘barang’, the Malay word ‘ferenggi’, or the Arabic ‘firinjah’...or a mish mash of all the fore mentioned, is neither here nor there, and we’ll never know. It does however, make for an interesting and on the odd occasion, a mildly irritating subject.

How many farang/falang do you know?

PS. Guess what we bought this afternoon?

*Post edit:

'A Few Facts about Farang' by Rikker Dockum on Women Learn Thai

มะกอก ฝรั่ง (makok farang) “A western-style olive”, as opposed to the larger Thai ‘makok’

ตะขบ ฝรั่ง (takhop farang), kind of flowering plant

ประทัด ฝรั่ง (prathad farang) “a shrub or small tree” native to Brazil.

แพงพวย ฝรั่ง (phaengphuai farang) “The Water Primrose”, a herbaceous perennial plant native to the Americas and found on the margins of lakes and ponds.

Farang count: 18

Cheers!

สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Sleeping corn - Northern Thai

2011-08-18T20:29:00.001+07:00

So, we’re sitting around talking to a few Thai friends (in 5% bad Thai and the rest, in English) and one says, something? something? "saleeping".

‘Sleeping?’ we ask, thinking she’s trying to pronounce an English word, you know, with all the extra invisible vowels.

“No, saleeping, sa-lee-ping,” she replies, “corn.” as she motions grilling over a barbeque.

‘Corn’ is not a word I’ve retained, because it’s everywhere, cooked and bagged, so I just pick one up and say “I’ll have this one please” or ask for “one ‘an’”...the slackers classifier for everything.

A few days later I thought I’d better revisit ‘saleeping’ (just to sate my curiosity) and found it nowhere in my regular dictionary resources. But, then I remember where I am...in Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, the old Kingdom of Lanna.

ข้าวโพด (kâo-pôht) means corn in standard Thai and ข้าวสาลี (kâo-sǎh-lee) means wheat. I have this inane method of checking Thai that I can't find anywhere else and that's by searching Google Images...ข้าวสาลี. Yep, looks like wheat wins hands down.

However, in northern Thai corn is spelt/said in two ways: ข้าวโปด, which sounds almost exactly like kâo-pôht and kâo-sǎh-lee, just like wheat in standard Thai. In the latter, if we throw away the kâo (rice, cereal or grain) part of the word, we’re left with สาลี (sǎh-lee). Add the ‘pbîng/ปิ้ง’ (roasted, grilled or barbequed) and we have สาลีปิ้ง (sǎh-lee pbîng), corn grilled or grilled corn.

....Strike me down if I don’t delay hitting the ‘publish’ button on this post and opt for a walk around the block (with Stray) to buy *him* some rotti. Next to the rotti stall is a young lady selling ข้าวโพดหวาน (kâo-pôht wǎhn), sweet corn. It said so on her sign. I asked her if kâo-sǎh-lee was Chiang Mai Thai and her first response was “No.” But, then she back stepped and charaded that it was ‘small’ corn.

When I’m at the market next time, I’ll give my kâo-sǎh-lees and kâo-pôhts a run for their money. In the mean time, I do know for sure that grilled corn (up here) is ลำแต้ๆ (lam dtâe dtâe / very delicious) and costs less than ซาวบาท ( saao bàat / 20 baht) per bag ;)

It’s so much fun learning a new language...or two!

Below is some further reading and resources for Northern Thai...I'd love to hear about more if you know of any. Like I'm not confused enough!

Learning Thai - Lanna
Northern-Central Thai Dictionary. Revised Edition this is really old and some of the pages aren't very legible.
Speak Real Thai not much, but worth a look.

For now I'll say sawadee jao and cheers!

สเมป
See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Treading water - learning Thai on your lonesome

2011-08-11T15:05:00.003+07:00

My Thai course finished weeks ago, I wagged the last two lessons and went to Vietnam. So what now? I did toss around the idea of enrolling in another course, but I want to travel around a bit before we leave, so don't want to waste money or class time.

It would be easy to find excuses and put the books/laptop away and call it quits, but that would be kind of like flushing a lot of hard work down the loo. So, if there are obstacles, just go around, over or under them, find a another way.

What's missing? Mainly structure and guidance. So what to do, what to do?

Before I discovered the post on WLT about the online free Thai Course at TCU (read the post/comments if you're thinking about enrolling), I got myself a Mee. Mee is a pen pal in Bangkok I found at Conversation Exchange. Like most of these kind of sites, it's a lucky dip of sorts. The first site I tried limited your communication ~~couldn't contact anyone, instead had to wait for them to contact me first~~ if you didn't pay a membership. Then once I found Conversation Exchange I was approached by several people, who eventually dwindled down to one very dedicated and professional conversation exchanger.

Mee is wonderful! He not only answers my questions, but corrects my Thai and gives me examples to explain differences, grammar order and particular word uses. And, he usually replies within 24 hours, to boot.

The main content for the structured part of my learning, I downloaded from TCU, which Mhee recommended. It wasn't long before I realised that the online lessons were fraught with errors...which would be down right confusing and possibly dangerous for a complete newbie. However, so far, the associated PDF files, which include audio, have been far less tainted and are proving to be valuable to revise, to add new vocabulary and annoy the dickens out of Mee with more queries.

Who knows, this in conjunction with the other online and hard copies of language resources, might be enough to keep my head above Thai waters. And, when we return home, I might just get brave enough to Skype with my Mee, because I won't be able to just pop out and inflict my Thai on any of the local shop owners or restaurant staff.

I'll miss being surrounded by signs in the streets and on buildings, because it's an 'in my face' way to practice my reading...which is improving by the way. It's a great feeling to be able to read (on the odd occasion), even if the eureka moment is delayed by 30 or so metres down the road. Poor Stray, but I DO have to tell someone that you should 'please drive slowly' here, or that we should hurry up and move if we don't want to be 'fined 2,000 baht for smoking in this area'.

Thai language courses are non existent where I come from, except for one Wat where they hold an adult class once a week. Maybe. It's a bit of a distance from our home...and Sundays are hardly a day for motivation.

If you're not in the country, or in a classroom, how do you learn a language successfully?

Cheers!

สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Chiang Mai Tribal Museum CLOSED..but when does it reopen?

2011-07-22T16:27:00.003+07:00

In March I asked Stray to take me out to Chiang Mai's Tribal Museum...but it was closed. Never mind, we had a nice lunch by the lake and listened to some Karoke. Even Stray had a go. It's an interesting place to dine, with nearly the entire water's edge occupied by sala cafes and restaraunts. A little ramshackle, but full of character.

The meals are inexpensive and vendors drop by from time to time, selling snacks and fruit. Note that not all of the eateries have English speaking staff or menus, so if you don't know a little Thai, you'll have extra fun.

The Bamboo worms (หนอนไม้ไผ่) I bought on the first visit.

So we returned the other day to find this sign, which I didn't notice on our first visit.

Apart from the obvious 'CLOSED!', it says its closed for renovation and if you don't have business being there, you can't go in. What's covered in white paint, I can't make out...but did it close in 2553 (last year), was it due to reopen then, when is it reopening?

Any ideas?

Judging from the upstairs windows, there's a bit of work to be done yet.

Cheers!

สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Workplace health and safety - Thai style

2011-07-19T02:24:00.008+07:00

Good to see that by the fifth floor the safety gear is in use.

Don't confuse the billboard sign cables in the background
with the safety rope.

But who's holding the guy, holding the rope, holding the guy?

Cheers!
สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

New Chiang Mai Public Bus Route

2011-06-23T20:35:00.002+07:00

Here's a recap on a previous post about Chiang Mai's public bus route. Perhaps it's just me, but I swear there are more buses on the road these days. Not just the odd eco friendly species or two, nor the old rattletraps, but brand spanking new blue versions.

Below is a map of the three routes (click on the photos for a better view).

The moat is indicated by the light blue square (I know...I'm brilliant!). The two major roads to the west of the moat: the southern road is Suthep Rd, the northern road is Huay Khaew Rd.

Fares range from 15 to 30 Baht and depending on the time of day and route, buses run every 15, 20 or 30 minutes.

If you've used the public bus service in Chiang Mai, or would like more details, please leave a comment.

Cheers! สเมป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Don't take that tone with me

2011-06-10T21:15:00.002+07:00

It's become normal, habitual, to use the word kha countless times a day. Khá on the end of a question - คะ with a high tone and khâ, as in 'yes' - ค่ะ, with a falling tone. Note the short vowel! The fact that we have a low tone transliterated kha in our school book adds another ~~now dismissed~~ dimension to my confusion...even though I hear it regularly, I can't find it written anywhere else.

When I'm greeted by the ladies at our hotel, or anywhere for that matter, with a sawadii kha (hello), more often than not the khâ becomes a drawn out khaaâaaa. I try not to question it too much, but it does kind of bother me, because khâa, with a long vowel, means: value, fee, price, citizen or to murder, kill or slaughter!

I'm pretty sure the girls at reception don't have it in for me ;)

I've asked the question 'why, why, why?' a few times, but never get a clear response.

It was suggested to me that sarcasm was the reason for this exaggerated, long voweled response. A notion which I quickly threw out the window...because the bloke who suggested it said 'My girlfriend takes that tone with me all the time'...I'm not surprised. Oi! Thai is a tonal language...change the tone, change the meaning.

Reassuring advice came to me recently, from a lovely khon Thai lady. The long khâa (not verbatim, but close enough) "is said with warmth and affection. If a Thai doesn't like you, they'll just ignore you." In short, just embrace it...so I am.

Anyone studying Thai is completely, painfully aware of the five tones: mid, high, low, rising and falling. Now that we're off to Vietnam in a few weeks, I've re-armed myself with a VN phrase book...I knew that Vietnamese was also a tonal language, but get a load of this!

Mid, high rising, low falling (often breathy?), low falling constricted (short length), mid dipping-rising and last but not least, high breaking-rising. COME ON! GIVE ME A BREAK.

I'm thinking...phrase book + finger = pointing and smiling... a lot!

Cheers! สเมป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Excuse me...can I borrow that word please?

2011-06-05T23:13:00.001+07:00

As a kid, as a cheap source of amusement, I remember blocking off my ears intermittently so I'd only catch the second, third or fourth word of a conversations. Depending on what was being said/heard, this could create the most bizarre and entertaining dialogues. I don't know, is there a name for that?On some days, my Thai listening skills are much like this...which is kind of nice, because on others, I may as well stick my fingers in my ears and just leave them there.

Great! I've just told my teacher I bathe under the bum gun, instead of the shower head.

Learning to read Thai is similar. So, I'm ecstatic when I can not only read a menu/sign/book, but can actually understand what I've read.

I have indigestion. I find a pharmacy and tell the lady my problem, but she doesn't *get it*. Luckily I've written it down...in ENGLISH TRANSLITERATION...doh! She can't read it, but I can say it correctly...this time. I buy Ga-wee-skon. I'm happy!

All languages borrow words, but I had no idea I have been surrounded with so many English words, written in Thai, until now. ฟรี F - R - EE ...Free! Oh, free, like in no charge! I tend to use signs and packaging as a handy, readily available learning tool.

Stop being so paranoid, she's talking about potatoes, not you.

I return to the apartment to discover I've just bought material from 'Joe's Fabric'...OK, yes, it was written in English too, but I really, truly didn't see that until later.

While out walking I stop to view a newly errected sign. I'm already being stared at because I'm the only person ~~twit~~ not taking refuge from the relentless heat AT 7.00 PM!!!!! Silently sounding out the letters and words, it dawns on me I'm standing in front of 'Jim Electrics'. Just to draw some extra attention to myself, I pull out my camera and take a photo to add to my collection of loan words.

She says the price in English...but we don't quite catch it. I ask 'how much?' in Thai and she replies accordingly, in Thai. I pay, thank her and she laughs, because we don't understand English :)

Photos I'll probably never post, because my blastard memory card has decided it doesn't want to talk to my computer.

บ๊าย บาย (bye bye) for now.

Cheers!
สเมป

Further reading: English loanwords in the Thai Language
Rikker's posts on loanwords
Women Learn Thai

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Getting around Chiang Mai by bus

2011-05-22T13:59:00.003+07:00

Not having your own transport in Chiang Mai can be a little frustrating at times, and leave you at the mercy of the tuk tuk and songthaew drivers. Some time back I came across a web article about a public bus system, with a fleet of 26, which was launched in 2006. It sounded very promising. Sadly a different article reported that it was short lived and hence, the air conditioned Eco-friendly buses are now rarely seen....I've only ever seen one and that was two days ago. I'm not sure why the plan failed, perhaps it was, as one friend put it, due to Chiang Mai's 'songthaew mafia'.

Eco-friendly Chiang Mai bus

You can however, spot small blue buses making their rounds from time to time. Without air conditioning, (which isn't a cruncher) but, looking like they should be put out to pasture, I've never considered them as an option. Even though the fare is only 10 Baht or so, I've not been able to decipher their route or timetable. So unattractive are they, that I don't even have a photo of one.

Recently signs have been appearing around Chiang Mai advertising new bus routes and hopefully, the old newer style buses! The new system, according to the signs, is to start 22nd May (today!) onward and the map indicates that there are three different routes.

If you're interested, here's the link via Google Translator. ChiangMaiBus.org Unfortunately Google makes a bit of a mish mash out of the 'Activity' page, so if you can shed some light, please do.

In the mean time, I'll go do some translating of my own, as well as get more details from the local information boards.

Cheers! สเมป See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Pro Language Course - What have I learnt so far?

2011-04-24T14:53:00.003+07:00

I'm enjoying my class at Pro Language immensely. Sometimes I wish I'd learn faster than I do, but that's not due to any fault of my teacher...I just get slack sometimes and my head hurts.

If you're wondering what my course entails, here's some of the technical info.

Course hours: Total 180, 2 x 3 hours per week.

Course books: 3 in total and we are nearing completion of the second book. All are written in English, English transliteration and most key words/phrases, in Thai also. (Note in the examples below I have not necessarily used the same transliteration system, as in my learning materials).

Progressively throughout the books there are:

Grammatical notes e.g. Pattern: Subject + Verb + (Object) + thîi nǎy, plus explanations and examples of use.

Conversation dialogues (simple) e.g.
Whose book is this?
nîi nǎngsʉ̌ʉ khɔ̌ɔng khray khráp
นี่หนังสือของใครครับ
That is my book. (splitting hairs? that should read "This is my book")
nîi nǎngsʉ̌ʉ khɔ̌ɔng dìchán khâ
นี่หนังสือของดิฉันค่ะ
Whose car is that?
nân rót khɔ̌ɔng khray khráp
นั่นรถของใครครับ
That is John's car.
nân rót khɔ̌ɔng khun Jɔɔn khâ
นั่นรถของคุณจอห์นค่ะ

...and vocabulary lists to support the exercises. Exercises vary from asking/answering questions, creating questions/answers, translating English to Thai, filling in the blanks, creating dialogues and now, (extremely) short stories.

We mainly utilise the books provided, supplemented by worksheets and the occasional 'snap' type card games, which can be quite competitive and fun.

Book one - Thai Conversation 1, is just that. It covers self introduction, basic informative questions/answers, general chit chat like: Where do you live? What food do you like? Where do you go to school?

Question words and how to use/answer them: no? yes? can you? where? who? whom? what? why? when? etc.

Subjects: Me, you, places, people, objects, restaurant/food, professions, hobbies, telling time, days/weeks/months (and tenses) some classifiers, clothing, polite requests (chûay, chə̌ən and khɔ̌ɔ) etc.

There are sections in the back of the book to be used in conjunction with tape recordings, but thus far, we have not used them.

Book 2 - Thai Conversation 2

How to use: already, already or not? finished? ever...? to know, (that/this) will do, more/again, with/not with, want, have, together, each other, please wait a moment, some (บ้าง), better than, best, more requests (bɔ̀ɔk/khɔ̌ɔ/yàak + hây) etc.

Subjects: Family, street directions (quite in-depth), restaurant/food/cooking (more detailed than book 1), telephone conversations etc.

Book 3 - I haven't sighted it yet, but believe it revises and builds on Book 1 and 2.

The above is just a brief outline of what I've been up to. At times our course books are, as mentioned before, a bit 'confused' according to our khruu. And, sometimes I do find slight errors on my own, usually in the transliteration...not even going to start!

Because I'm still trying to teach myself how to read/write, and because I'm not sure of how to grammatically construct some of the larger sentences I want to say, I often ask the teacher to check a couple of my (out of school) questions/examples at the end of class...she's always happy to assist! Other than learning the language, we frequently discuss various aspects of Thai life and concepts, which can be a nice diversion from the grindstone.

My biggest frustration would be that I can't take Khruu K home with me and pick her brains at my convenience.

Generally I'm pretty content with my progress, especially after I've studied and don't have a case of the guilts.

Of course, I'm not just relying on my classes to learn Thai. Stray and I both share what we know (including mispronunciations and misconceptions) and I study subjects of interest (to me) in my own time...I've also started (again) to watch Thai TV channels. My version of an Automatic Language Growth approach. Even if it's just so I can say "ooh! ooh! I know that word", every minute or so ;)

Cheers!
สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

'Puppy'

Me, me, me, me me and me

2011-04-20T21:52:00.002+07:00

A while back, Catherine at Women Learn Thai..and some men too ;-) put a call out for interviewees, for her series "Getting By In Thai". Of course I stuck my hand up ~~put my neck on the chopping block,~~ not wanting to let such an opportunity slip by ~~what was I thinking?~~ Thanks Catherine!

And, so, because I've been soooo snowed under with my Thai studies ~~dilly dallying about~~ and haven't had time to write any posts ~~make anything up~~ lately for Chiang Mai Thai, I'm sending you over to my interview with WLT.

Cheers!
สเมป

See what else we're up to at Cooee!

Finding and losing friends

2011-04-04T22:57:00.001+07:00

Living in Chiang Mai can be a little like moving through an alien transit station in the Fifth Element. I mean, there are all sorts; tourists, short stayers, long stayers, permanent expats, permanently lost expats and lets not forget the tolerant locals.

I am a hermit at heart. I've only ever needed a few good, true friends in life...and of course family. Stray's social butterflyism makes up for what my social life may be lacking. When I arrived here I thought I'd be content with my own company and various personal projects, as I was back home...but then I had a home, to clean, gardens to care for ~~murder~~, family, employment, self employment...and that was enough to keep me more than busy. Back then I was often looking for a quiet place to curl up and hide in.

Here, I have Stray (who I'd be lost without) but far as friends go, I had none to call my own. Then I met a few expats and Thais and eventually a few of the became 'friends'. And, like any alien transit station, people transit. In five months, two have already moved on for various reasons ~~no, it's not 'me', they've actually left the country for employment reasons~~. On the upside, I may have a couch waiting for me in Wixu, China, should I visit there one day.

And then there are my class mates and teacher. People from all different corners of the world who make my two classes a week enjoyable, entertaining and culturally enlightening. I won't even get into the discussion about 'what is a shallot?'

Two of my friends and I go out often for lunch and things! I feel a bit like one of the musketeers when we do. One of us is a bit grumpy at times and reclusive, one is quirky, intelligent and cute and the other is strong and diplomatic...but then again, the three of us are probably a mixture of all of these qualities of varying proportions and we just seem to *work* together. Just like Porthos, Athos and Aramis...but I couldn't tell you which one of is which.

There really isn't a point to this post, except that good friendships aren't always forever, but while you have them they are intellectually and emotionally enriching, and you should treasure them, even if they are short term. How else would I have learnt that a 'stitch unpicker' is also called a 'seam ripper'...or that not everyone knows that a 'sticky beak' is a 'busy body'...or that some of us 'pull their finger out' and some of us 'pull their thumb out'. And, 'boondoggle'????

Never mind about learning Thai, English isn't always English.

So, as they leave, as I eventually will, I'll keep making an effort to find good friends and miss those I have left behind.

Cheers! สเมป See what else we're up to at Cooee!