"Coming of Age in Second Life"

welcome

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:20:00 +0000

"Coming of Age in Second Life"
Transcript of a Discussion led by Tom Bukowski
August 24, 2008

Organized by Riven Homewood
Director, Steelhead Public Library, Steelhead City, Second Life

Edited - Published by Sky Light
Publisher's Note

Copyright

Notice:
Second Life® is a trademark of Linden Lab and refers to the 3-D virtual world created by its residents, not to any other virtual world.

Location:
American Anthropologist Virtual Campus, Anteater Island, Second Life

[13:58] Tom Bukowski: Yes, welcome all. I designed this place all by myself, but sadly this may be the only event that takes place here. Unless I can find people to help me run this virtual campus I may have to close it soon - I just don't have the time right now.
[13:59] JJ Drinkwater: Time is the rarest commodity in SL.
[13:59] Elegia Underwood: Was that a thinly veiled request for volunteers?
[13:59] Tom Bukowski: No, not really lol. Ideally I'll get a grad student of mine or two to do it, but probably not doable.
[14:02] Riven Homewood: In that case - perhaps we should begin.

introducing the speaker

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:16:00 +0000

[14:02] Riven Homewood: I'm so glad you could all come today.
[14:02] Riven Homewood: My friend Nichus gave me a copy of Tom's book and a hearty recommendation - and I'm so glad he did
[14:03] Riven Homewood: I don't usually read books about sl - they make me too angry. They usually seem to be written by people who don't know much about sl and don't understand it
[14:04] Riven Homewood: It was a great pleasure to read one by somebody who obviously knows sl well and loves it as much as I do
[14:04] Tom Bukowski: aww
[14:04] Riven Homewood: and who appreciates the fact that it is really all about friendship and community.

about sl, the audience comments

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:14:00 +0000

"SL is really all about friendship and community," Riven Homewood has said (14:04) while introducing the speaker.
[14:04] Mug of Ale whispers: Here, here!
[14:04] Elegia Underwood: And creativity.
[14:05] Riven Homewood: Yes! and creativity too
[14:05] Heidi Ballinger: and business
[14:05] Leeorie Alter: and learning
[14:05] Leeorie Alter: :)
[14:05] Heidi Ballinger: lol
[14:05] Azul Draken wonders how long the list will get
[14:05] Riven Homewood: Tom's book is scholarly and well documented
[14:05] Roy Smashcan: and sex *cough*cough*cough*
[14:05] Tom Bukowski: and shopping
[14:05] Demi Janus: self discovery
[14:05] Riven Homewood: LOL
[14:05] Gabrielle Riel grins at Roy
[14:05] JJ Drinkwater stifles Roy
[14:05] Forelle Broek hands Roy a coughdrop
[14:05] Extropia DaSilva: Trying to pigeon hole Sl never works, it can be too many things to too many people.
[14:05] Riven Homewood: anything else I missed?
[14:05] Azul Draken: fun?
[14:05] Galactic Baroque: and a home that wanders with you, for the travelers
[14:05] JJ Drinkwater: Fashion
[14:05] Riven Homewood: Right
[14:06] Riven Homewood: It's about all of those things
[14:06] Riven Homewood: and freedom
[14:06] Riven Homewood: and the ability to try things you might not be able to try in rl
[14:06] Leeorie Alter: nods
[14:06] Ludo Merit: Fun.
[14:06] Riven Homewood: this book talks about all that, and I'm really pleased that Tom is able to talk with us about it today

giving the floor to the speaker

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:12:00 +0000

[14:07] Riven Homewood: And with that - I think I will turn it over to Tom and let him tell you about it
[14:07] Tom Bukowski: Cool!
[14:07] Tom Bukowski: First, thank you all for coming

chat format, a decision

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:07:00 +0000

[14:07] Tom Bukowski: Second, my avatar looks like a black empty space probably because of a bad internet connection + old laptop + who knows what with the grid
[14:08] Tom Bukowski: for that and due to audience preferences, I'll use chat tho some would have liked voice
[14:08] Tom Bukowski: sorry about that!
[14:08] Extropia DaSilva: You are a shadow of your former self, huh?
[14:08] Tom Bukowski: I'll try to keep up with the typing and the wisecracks
[14:08] Elegia Underwood: You mean the helpful supplementary comments, don't you, Tom?
[14:08] Tom Bukowski: exactly Elegia lol
[14:09] Riven Homewood: And I've had two requests for transcripts so far, so text is really helpful.

structure of the presentation

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:03:00 +0000

[14:08] Tom Bukowski: what I'll do is tell you real quick about myself
[14:08] Tom Bukowski: and the book and all, there was a request for that
[14:09] Tom Bukowski: and then we'll just make it a free - form Q&A as far as I'm concerned
[14:09] Tom Bukowski: so real quick about me and the book, and then a free-form chat, because I want to learn from all of you too

personal background

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:03:00 +0000

[14:09] Tom Bukowski: so briefly
[14:09] Tom Bukowski: irl my name is Tom Boellstorff
[14:09] Tom Bukowski: just a sec
[14:09] Tom Bukowski: http://www.anthro.uci.edu/faculty_bios/boellstorff/boellstorff.php
[14:09] Tom Bukowski: there, that's my faculty webpage
[14:10] Tom Bukowski: I'm 39 years old and a Taurus lol
[14:10] Tom Bukowski: I finished my PhD at Stanford in 2000
[14:10] Tom Bukowski: and have been a professor at University of Calif Irvine since 2002
[14:10] Tom Bukowski: that's near Los Angeles

research

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:01:00 +0000

[14:10] Tom Bukowski: my original and continuing research is in Indonesia
[14:10] Tom Bukowski: on gay, lesbian, and transgender Indonesians
[14:10] Tom Bukowski: I've written two books about that and been going there for 15 years, I'm fluent in the Indonesian language, etc.
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: but about 5 years ago, after I knew the two books were basically done
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: I thought I might try something very different.

entry into sl

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:01:00 +0000

[14:11] Tom Bukowski: I had always liked video games and simulations
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: and found out about The Sims Online, Second Life, and so on
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: so the idea I had was:
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: what if an anthropologist goes to a virtual world
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: which was a really new thing
[14:11] Tom Bukowski: esp back in 2002 or so
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: when Second Life had around 5000 accounts
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: and a normal max concurrency of around 200
[14:12] JJ Drinkwater wonders how long it took The Esteemed Anthropologist to learn to speak Avatar
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: what if an anthropologist goes to this new "place"
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: and tries to study it, just as an experiment, with the most "traditional" methods of anthropology
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: not really "traditional" of course
[14:12] Forelle Broek: "An anthropologist, a sociologist, and an economist walk into a virtual world ..."
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: but what would happen if I take Second Life seriously as a place of human culture
[14:12] Azul Draken snickers
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: and that's what I did, basically
[14:12] Tom Bukowski: and from the beginning I've loved Second Life
[14:13] Tom Bukowski: and found it just an amazing place to think about so much
[14:13] Tom Bukowski: identity, community, belief, commerce
[14:13] Tom Bukowski: intimacy
[14:13] Tom Bukowski: etc etc etc

new book

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:59:00 +0000

[14:13] Tom Bukowski: so I just published my book Coming of Age in Second Life; An Anthropologist Explores the Virtually Human
[14:13] Tom Bukowski: it's official release was just in June 2008
[14:13] Tom Bukowski: I'm so happy it's getting a lot of interest and kind comments because it was a LOT of work lol
[14:14] Tom Bukowski: it will actually be reviewed in Nature next month, I'm happy about that
[14:14] Leeorie Alter: wow congrats!
[14:14] Tara Yeats: congrats on getting into Nature!
[14:14] Tom Bukowski: and I'm going to keep doing research in Second Life, I hope to start that up soon

recent appointment

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:58:00 +0000

[14:14] Tom Bukowski: in the last year I've become Editor-in-Chief of American Anthropologist
[14:14] Tom Bukowski: that's the official journal of the American Anthropological Association
[14:14] Extropia DaSilva: Go, Tom!
[14:14] Elegia Underwood: Wow. Congrats on that!
[14:14] Forelle Broek: Bravo!
[14:14] Tom Bukowski: I will be editor of the journal until 2012
[14:14] Gi Tammas: congrats
[14:14] Azul Draken: Well done!
[14:14] Malburns Writer APPLAUDS!!!

research, its acceptance and rejection

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:54:00 +0000

[14:14] Tom Bukowski: I think one nice side effect of being Editor-in-Chief is that it indicates how research on virtual worlds is legitimate
[14:14] Leeorie Alter: until 2012....when the world will end
[14:14] Leeorie Alter: lol
[14:14] Tom Bukowski: Because you would not believe the dismissal I've gotten from some folks lol
[14:15] Azul Draken: Oh yes I would
[14:15] North Lamar: we believe
[14:15] Forelle Broek: me too Tom
[14:15] Krystine Qinan: We can believe it.
[14:15] Caliburn Susanto: Yes we would.
[14:15] Elegia Underwood: Oh, yes, we would.
[14:15] Tom Bukowski: the down side of being an editor is it makes it hard for me to spend time in Second Life doing research, but I'm going to keep trying
[14:15] MaCelia Morane: I believe it!
[14:15] Leeorie Alter: o yes
[14:15] padlurowncanoe Dibou: affirm the dismissal part
[14:15] Riven Homewood: Um hum :-)

volley of questions from the audience (with some quips)

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:53:00 +0000

[14:15] Tom Bukowski: Okay, enough introduction, let's have a discussion! Ask anything you wish, there's no way I could possibly be offended
[14:15] Tom Bukowski: If too may questions pile up, Riven can help keep track
[14:16] Leeorie Alter: Tom how have you seen SL change?
[14:16] Azul Draken: Curiosity...is there any overlap between your earlier work and the SL work?
[14:16] Tom Bukowski: Two good questions to start!
[14:16] Elegia Underwood: How did you account for the seamier side of SL... Gor, BDSM, etc?
[14:16] Tom Bukowski: ooh three
[14:16] Forelle Broek thinks bling is the seamier side of SL
[14:16] Riven Homewood: And perhaps Forelle and Leeorie will help keep track too, so we have some backup
[14:16] Azul Draken: Seamy is in your POV
[14:17] Elegia Underwood laughs, "That, too, Forelle."
[14:17] padlurowncanoe Dibou: do you teach in SL -- and what reactions do you get from colleagues and admin regarding SL and its education possibilities
[14:17] North Lamar: can you talk about reactions you have received to "virtual anthropology vs virtual ethnography"
[14:17] Tom Bukowski: (oh wow, so many good questions, I'll try to keep track)
[14:17] Leeorie Alter: lol
[14:17] Extropia DaSilva: I noticed you put "place" in inverted commas, as if you feel SL is not really a place at all. Well, why not? It is a 3d environment, it has community, society. And RL is mostly virtual, being predominantly fashions, commercialism, and monetary systems. So um, what is wrong with calling this a place?
[14:17] Azul Draken: Smart audience here If I do say so myself
[14:18] Cate Ceawlin: I would like to hear something about how if and how ethics issues in research are different from RL

"how has sl changed?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:53:00 +0000

[14:17] Tom Bukowski: okay, first Leeorie (sorry if I misspell names, typing fast)
[14:17] Tom Bukowski: how has Second Life changed? - of course the answer is in some ways a lot and in some ways not a lot
[14:17] Tom Bukowski: There are obviously more subcultures, more diversity, particularly non-English stuff which was virtually absent at the beginning
[14:18] Tom Bukowski: I actually flew across every corner of every sim in Second Life when I started - took me 5 days. Not remotely possible now! Back then, only one island - Avalon, now thousands. but some things haven't changed like you would think - basic ideas around identity, place, afk, trust, all of that

"do you think sl is a place?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:51:00 +0000

[14:18] Tom Bukowski: Quick thing out of order for Extropia. I absolutely think that Second Life is a place
[14:19] Tom Bukowski: In the book, I purposely talk about place before topics like identity, avatars, and sexuality
[14:19] Tom Bukowski: because I think above all what makes a virtual world a virtual world is that they are places - Richard Bartle has been very clear and helpful on this point
[14:19] Caliburn Susanto: It's how I describe SL to all Non-SL'rs … It's not a game, it a PLACE. They get that.

typographical errors, an apology

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:51:00 +0000

[14:19] Tom Bukowski: sorry so many typos trying to keep up
[14:20] Tara Yeats suspects most here read typo fluently
[14:20] Elegia Underwood: We all speak typonese, Tom. It goes with the territory. Type away.

"is there any overlap between your earlier work and your sl work?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:50:00 +0000

[14:19] Tom Bukowski: Azul - overlap question
[14:20] Tom Bukowski: I purposely had the idea of doing something completely different form my Indonesia research, but there are amazing links at a conceptual level
[14:20] Tom Bukowski: my first book is called The Gay Archipelago because I was interested in how Indonesians took this idea "gay" from halfway around the world
[14:20] Tom Bukowski: that was supposed to be Western, just an import
[14:20] Tom Bukowski: and made it real for them, something authentic
[14:21] Tom Bukowski: that linked them up to other gay and lesbian people across the Indonesian archipelago, and in a kind of imagined world archipelago too with gay and lesbian people elsewhere
[14:21] Tom Bukowski: and when I talk like that - you can see the parallels
[14:21] Tom Bukowski: with Second Life, a kind of archipelago of places
[14:21] Tom Bukowski: just hit control-M and look at the map!
[14:21] Gabrielle Riel nods
[14:22] Extropia DaSilva: It is also an archipelago of ideals. Think Gorean culture for one.
[14:22] Azul Draken: or norms
[14:21] Tom Bukowski: so that's been interesting
[14:22] Tom Bukowski: to see where those links pop up, without me planning it.

"how did you account for the seamier side of SL … Gor, BDSM, etc?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:50:00 +0000

[14:22] Tom Bukowski: okay, next question: Elegia
[14:22] Tom Bukowski: Your question about the seamier side of Second Life
[14:22] Tom Bukowski: because Second Life is a place, you really find the same range of things that you do in the actual world
[14:22] Tom Bukowski: there's a lot of what appears to be boring suburbia, etc.
[14:22] Tom Bukowski: but also all of that "seamy" stuff -
[14:23] Elegia Underwood: In response to Azul's comment re POV, I am living by Kurt Vonnegut's quote these days: "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be."
[14:23] Caliburn Susanto: I'm not pretending … I really am a BD/SM person.

anonymity

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:49:00 +0000

[14:23] Tom Bukowski: one interesting aspect to that has to do with the question of anonymity in Second Life
[14:23] Tom Bukowski: that's what I call one of the "four confusions"
[14:23] Tom Bukowski: Second Life is built around anynomity
[14:23] Tom Bukowski: you have to choose an avatar name that is not the same as your rl name, with rare exceptions
[14:23] Tom Bukowski: but you could imagine a virtual world where rl and virtual world names are the same, like a Facebook kind of thing
[14:24] Tom Bukowski: so the anonymity thing of course makes it easier to do some "seamier" stuff
[14:24] Azul Draken: or explore that which you've been afraid to
[14:24] Tom Bukowski: but that is not an inevitable aspect of virtual worlds
[14:24] padlurowncanoe Dibou: not all communities in sl are built around anonymity -- real participation in the ed community often requires transparency:-)
[14:41] Tom Bukowski: yes, not all groups or activities in Second Life are built around being anonymous, that's precisely the point, and I imagine that what will continue into the future is people doing both. For some things I might want to be anonymous, for others not. Slaying dragons for fun or something along those lines in Second Life, versus teaching or a business meeting.
[14:25] Caliburn Susanto: Do you think anonymity is more of a problem for business here ? or security?
[14:26] Stargazer Blazer: Does anonymity have to be a negative?
[14:24] Forelle Broek: I find Goffman very helpful in thinking about those aspects of SL
[14:40] Tom Bukowski: yes, Goffman can be very interesting for thinking about sl

vocabulary: virtual world and actual world

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:47:00 +0000

[14:24] Tom Bukowski: that's why in my book I say "virtual world" and "actual world"
[14:24] Tom Bukowski: here when typing fast I might say rl
[14:24] Tom Bukowski: I never use the phrase "real world" because both are real
[14:24] Tom Bukowski: when I write, I never say "real world"
[14:26] Heidi Ballinger: Very true (hate to use RL and IRL) SL is the same as reading a newspaper or surfing on the net … We need another common word to use for being online in VW
[14:26] Extropia DaSilva: 'RL' is like the word 'atom'. We know we apply it to the wrong thing (atoms are divisible, after all) but the word has stuck.

"do you teach in sl?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:47:00 +0000

[14:25] Tom Bukowski: okay, next question - sorry I'm trying to keep up - what a great audience!
[14:25] Tom Bukowski: padlu - do I teach in Second Life
[14:26] Tom Bukowski: haven't had much chance yet, I think there are great possibilties as you can see
[14:26] Tom Bukowski: so many experiments going on
[14:26] Tom Bukowski: but obviously too many still based on the traditional educational model
[14:26] Tom Bukowski: there is going to be a lot of great experimentation with that I suspect

"what reactions have you received to 'virtual anthropology' cf 'virtual ethnography'?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:45:00 +0000

[14:26] Tom Bukowski: continuing
[14:26] Tom Bukowski: ahh too many good questions
[14:26] Tom Bukowski: North Lamar: can you talk about reactions you have received to "virtual anthropology vs virtual ethnography"
[14:27] Tom Bukowski: what I say in the book is that in anthropology, the norm is to talk about medical anthropology, legal anthro, etc.
[14:27] Tom Bukowski: not medical ethnography, that's more focused on method
[14:27] Forelle Broek smiles at "legal anthro"
[14:27] Tom Bukowski: so I usually say "virtual anthro" not "virtual ethno," but if you are really focused on methods
[14:27] Tom Bukowski: then of course in that context "virtual ethnography" makes sense
[14:27] Azul Draken ponders "illegal Anthro"
[14:27] North Lamar: am i writing my diss [dissertation] proposal right now (due Friday), and your book was very timely for me … when i mention virtual anthropology to my committee they roll their eyes (i'm in information science)
[14:27] Forelle Broek: Heh!
[14:28] Tom Bukowski: North - I work with Paul Dourish at Irvine in Informatics - email me later
[14:28] Tom Bukowski: that's unfortunate
[14:28] North Lamar: but they seem ok with virtual ethnography, just curious as to other reactions you have received about the term

"are research ethics different from rl?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:45:00 +0000

[14:28] Tom Bukowski: okay, Cate's question
[14:28] Tom Bukowski: Cate Ceawlin - I would like to hear something about if and how ethics issues in research are different from RL
[14:28] Tom Bukowski: ethics - I have a section on this in my book
[14:28] Tom Bukowski: for me it was not too hard, because in my research I never ask about "rl" information, and I never even use people's screen names
[14:29] Tom Bukowski: I change the names of sims, places, everything
[14:29] Tom Bukowski: change small details so the persons are untraceable
[14:29] Tom Bukowski: it's a different issue if you want to ask about rl info or meet people in the actual world, but even then doable
[14:29] Tom Bukowski: basically the ethics issues are much easier than with gay men or lesbian women in Indonesia, home to more Muslims than any other country
[14:29] Tom Bukowski: things are fine there, but I do have to be careful
[14:30] Tom Bukowski: the other ethical decision I made for the Second Life research was not to use alts
[14:30] Riven Homewood: When I first encountered researchers in sl, my worry was that they would look at me as a sort of freak - many of them seemed quite new to sl
[14:30] Tom Bukowski: and if you see my profile, I say right away that I'm an anthropologist
[14:30] Gabrielle Riel: Interesting...no Alts :-)
[14:30] Tom Bukowski: I'm not saying everyone has to do that, just that it worked best for that particular research project and for me
[14:30] Tom Bukowski: but I think it's important to not deceive people
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: basically, I find research in Second Life a joy
[14:31] Forelle Broek didn't think Riven was a freak when he first met her
[14:31] Gabrielle Riel nods in agreement
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: people love to be interviewed, love to talk and hang
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: if you just show basic respect
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: and listen to people
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: it's amazing what can happen!

"why do we tend to call it 'RL' information?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:44:00 +0000

[14:31] Heidi Ballinger: But why do we tend to call it "RL" information? SL is as real for me as anything else is :)
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: yes heidi, I *never* say "real life" or "rl" in my writings, just doing it here for speed
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: I'll say "aw" for actual world
[14:31] Tom Bukowski: how about that, that's what I do in the book
[14:32] Tom Bukowski: because if you say vw/rw
[14:32] Tom Bukowski: you asume a real world that is computer free
[14:32] Tom Bukowski: and that virtuality hasn't always been part of the human expeirnece
[14:32] Heidi Ballinger: Tom, I will use "AW" in the future - and say its word establish by Tom B (can never say your last name right) hee!
[14:32] Caliburn Susanto: Physical World and Synthetic World always seem clear to most
[14:33] Roy Smashcan: We're all used to talking about SL and RL - it's easier to do that and let the philosophical implications lie.

"how do your colleagues react to your work?"

noreply@blogger.com (Unknown) — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:43:00 +0000

[14:32] Tom Bukowski: okay, lemme find the next question - what an audience!
[14:32] Leeorie Alter: lol
[14:32] Riven Homewood: Tom - people are asking about how your colleagues react to your Second Life research
[14:32] Tom Bukowski: Marilena Basevi: I'd like to hear about the reactions of other anthropologists to your work
[14:33] Tom Bukowski: It has been very very interesting
[14:33] Tom Bukowski: It has generally been very positive - the book is already going into a first reprint, and lot of anthropologists are teaching with it
[14:33] Tom Bukowski: but from the beginning there has also been hostility
[14:33] Gabrielle Riel: I bet
[14:33] Tom Bukowski: More than I ever got for studying gay people, which surprised me
[14:33] Siri Woodget: wow
[14:33] Galactic Baroque: weird
[14:33] Tom Bukowski: There are anthropologists how are threatened by technology
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: And there is still a strong emphasis on studying "remote" indigenous cultures in some quarters of anthropology (though certainly not all). So what I sometimes get are reactions like:
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: "aren't those people without a real life"
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: "aren't those just wealthy elites"
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: "isn't it just sex and violence"
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: none of that will surprise most of you
[14:34] Riven Homewood: Yes - I hear that too - " I hardly have time for my first life!"
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: I basically got no research funding for this - all rejections
[14:34] Tom Bukowski: and I purposesly did this after I had tenure
[14:35] Azul Draken: Hooray for tenure
[14:35] Gabrielle Riel: Good idea
[14:35] Gi Tammas: good planning
[14:35] Marilena Basevi: very interesting -- thank you! -- post tenure, no grants
[14:35] Tom Bukowski: So that's one reason why I think it's good I'm Editor-in-Chief of American Anthropologist
[14:35] Tom Bukowski: It makes it a little harder for people to dismiss this kind of research
[14:35] Tom Bukowski: And I have to say, among graduate students and younger anthropologists, there tends to be far less hostility
[14:35] Gabrielle Riel nods
[14:35] Tom Bukowski: And even among the older generation, there's a lot of support too, it's not all dismissive
[14:35] Forelle Broek: same here - my coleagues are perplexed, my students are fascinated
[14:35] Tom Bukowski: But I have been surprised by how often I got a negative reaction
[14:36] Azul Draken: jealousy for not thinking of it?
[14:36] Tom Bukowski: I wonder about that Azul
[…]
[14:42] Tom Bukowski: so just to comment a bit more, I don't want to make it sound like they all roll their eyes. People in my department were all completely supportive, and many others have been.
[14:42] Tom Bukowski: But I can't deny that I have encountered dismissal and rolling of eyes too, more than I expected.