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	<title type="text">
	Comments for Curts Cogitations	</title>
	<subtitle type="text">Postin My Thoughts and Talkin With You</subtitle>

	<updated>2013-01-16T23:54:00Z</updated>

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	<entry>
		<title>
		Comment on Replacement Theology in Thomas Ice? by Curtis S		</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="https://blog.place4my.com/2010/04/25/replacement-theology-in-thomas-ice/#comment-105" type="text/html" />

		<author>
			<name>Curtis S</name>
			<uri>http://blog.place4my.com</uri>
		</author>

		<id>http://blog.place4my.com/?p=167#comment-105</id>
		<updated>2013-01-16T23:54:00Z</updated>
		<published>2013-01-16T23:54:00Z</published>

					<content type="html" xml:base="https://blog.place4my.com/2010/04/25/replacement-theology-in-thomas-ice/#comment-105"><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.place4my.com/2010/04/25/replacement-theology-in-thomas-ice/#comment-104">Johnny Ward</a>.</p>
<p>I do not believe that it is &#8216;pre-trib&#8217; that is the new thing.  Dispensationalism is the new thing, which includes pre, mid and post tribulational views.  I have been familiar with MacPherson for over a decade.  He does a wonderful job of discovering the origins of dispensationalism yet still holds to one of it&#8217;s varieties.  Don&#8217;t you find that strange?</p>
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		<entry>
		<title>
		Comment on Replacement Theology in Thomas Ice? by Johnny Ward		</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="https://blog.place4my.com/2010/04/25/replacement-theology-in-thomas-ice/#comment-104" type="text/html" />

		<author>
			<name>Johnny Ward</name>
			<uri>http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Ward/100002466030200</uri>
		</author>

		<id>http://blog.place4my.com/?p=167#comment-104</id>
		<updated>2013-01-10T16:53:00Z</updated>
		<published>2013-01-10T16:53:00Z</published>

					<content type="html" xml:base="https://blog.place4my.com/2010/04/25/replacement-theology-in-thomas-ice/#comment-104"><![CDATA[<p>[Hi Curtis: I just spotted this incredible article on the web. Any reaction? Lord bless.]</p>
<p>          Pretrib Rapture Pride</p>
<p>                  by Bruce Rockwell</p>
<p> Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression that they<br />
 know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest<br />
Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible,<br />
 the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own<br />
mentors!<br />
     Ice knows that his own mentor, Dallas Sem. president<br />
John Walvoord, was unable to find anyone holding to pretrib before early<br />
 19th century British teacher John Darby &#8211; and Walvoord called Darby and<br />
 his Brethren followers &#8220;the early pretribulationists&#8221; (RQ, pp. 160-62).<br />
 By claiming to find &#8220;imminence&#8221; in the 1st and 2nd century Fathers, Ice<br />
 knows that his followers can change &#8220;imminence&#8221; in their mind to<br />
&#8220;pretrib&#8221; &#8211; but Ice is reluctant to admit that whenever any of those<br />
Fathers seemed to hold to &#8220;imminence, it was because they thought they<br />
were then in the tribulation and were near the end of it!<br />
     Google<br />
 &#8220;Famous Rapture Watchers&#8221; to see the rapture view that Walvoord said<br />
&#8220;has long been a common doctrine held by the majority of the church&#8221;<br />
(RQ, p. 127). Note how those unsurpassed lexicon and Greek grammar<br />
experts interpreted Rev. 3:10 which pretrib promoters often claim is the<br />
 greatest Biblical proof for an any-moment pretrib rapture.</p>
<p>Journalist/historian Dave MacPherson has focused since 1968 on the<br />
pretrib rapture&#8217;s long-covered-up, 183-year-old history. His habit has<br />
been to examine Darby&#8217;s earliest writings and then painstakingly search<br />
for the earliest occurrences of certain words and phrases like &#8220;coming<br />
for,&#8221; &#8220;coming with,&#8221; &#8220;rapture,&#8221; &#8220;imminence,&#8221; &#8220;any moment,&#8221; etc. Since<br />
several of Darby&#8217;s contemporaries have at times been nominated for the<br />
title of &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Originator,&#8221; MacPherson has done the same<br />
laborious word-and-phrase search in the earliest writings of Macdonald,<br />
Norton, Irving, etc.<br />
     Since many pretrib promoters favor the King<br />
 James Version of the Bible, it&#8217;s interesting that the other writings of<br />
 the KJV translators that are in the British Library in London (where<br />
MacPherson has researched) don&#8217;t have even a hint of a pretrib rapture!<br />
Is it possible that Ice and other pretrib merchandisers have found proof<br />
 of pretrib in the KJV that even the KJV translators couldn&#8217;t find?</p>
<p> Pretrib didn&#8217;t flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible<br />
which has pretribby &#8220;explanatory notes&#8221; in its margins. Not seen in the<br />
margins was jailed forger Scofield&#8217;s criminal record throughout his life<br />
 that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book &#8220;The Praise of<br />
Folly&#8221; which is available online.<br />
     Even some well-known<br />
evangelical schools have played fast and loose with pretrib.<br />
MacPherson&#8217;s &#8220;The Rapture Plot&#8221; &#8211; the most documented and accurate work<br />
on pretrib dispensationalism&#8217;s history (Google &#8220;Scholars Weigh My<br />
Research&#8221;) &#8211; includes on p. 222 Biola&#8217;s original doctrinal statement<br />
which stated that the &#8220;Lord Jesus is coming again to his earth,<br />
personally, bodily, and visibly.&#8221; Later on, those who evidently felt<br />
superior to the founders added this Scofield-like &#8220;explanatory note&#8221;<br />
which says that &#8220;the return of the Lord for His Church will be<br />
premillennial&#8221; and &#8220;before the Tribulation.&#8221; (Also Google &#8220;Pretrib<br />
Hypocrisy.&#8221;)<br />
     Although Ice&#8217;s mentor John Walvoord couldn&#8217;t find<br />
any pretrib teacher before 1830, Ice has been &#8220;honoring&#8221; Walvoord by<br />
promoting some pseudo-scholars who claim they&#8217;ve found pre-1830<br />
existence of pretrib! (Google MacPherson&#8217;s &#8220;Deceiving and Being<br />
Deceived&#8221; for the details.)<br />
     Ice, BTW, has a &#8220;Ph.D&#8221; issued by a<br />
tiny Texas school that wasn&#8217;t authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says<br />
that he&#8217;s working on another &#8220;Ph.D&#8221; via the University of Wales in<br />
Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice&#8217;s scholarliness, Google &#8220;Bogus<br />
degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales,&#8221; &#8220;Thomas<br />
Ice (Bloopers),&#8221; and &#8220;be careful in polemics &#8211; Peripatetic Learning.&#8221;</p>
<p> Another pretrib trafficker, Hal Lindsey, asserts on p. 124 in &#8220;The Late<br />
 Great Planet Earth&#8221; that the famous Egyptian Sphinx has the head of a<br />
woman even though encyclopedias say it&#8217;s the head of a man!<br />
     In a<br />
 Google article &#8220;Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice,&#8221; Ice&#8217;s mentor<br />
demolishes Ice&#8217;s desperate assertion that the &#8220;falling away&#8221; in II<br />
Thess. 2 is a pretrib rapture! (Ice should have said that the TEACHING<br />
of such a rapture is a falling away!)<br />
     Other Google pieces<br />
helping to make a shocking mosaic of pretrib include &#8220;Pretrib Rapture<br />
Diehards,&#8221; &#8220;X-raying Margaret,&#8221; &#8220;Edward Irving is Unnerving,&#8221; &#8220;Wily<br />
Jeffrey,&#8221; &#8220;Thieves&#8217; Marketing,&#8221; &#8220;Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,&#8221; &#8220;The<br />
 Unoriginal John Darby,&#8221; &#8220;Catholics Did NOT Invent the Rapture,&#8221; &#8220;The<br />
Real Manuel Lacunza,&#8221; &#8220;The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),&#8221; &#8220;Open Letter<br />
to Todd Strandberg,&#8221; &#8220;Pretrib Rapture: A Staged Event,&#8221; &#8220;Pretrib Rapture<br />
 Secrecy,&#8221; &#8220;Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism,&#8221; &#8220;Chuck Missler &#8211;<br />
Copyist,&#8221; &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Secrets,&#8221; and an earthquake titled &#8220;Pretrib<br />
Rapture Dishonesty.&#8221;<br />
     Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?</p>
]]></content>
		
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				</entry>
		<entry>
		<title>
		Comment on What Do Ya Got by Curtis S		</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="https://blog.place4my.com/2012/05/28/what-do-ya-got/#comment-103" type="text/html" />

		<author>
			<name>Curtis S</name>
			<uri>http://blog.place4my.com</uri>
		</author>

		<id>http://blog.place4my.com/?p=580#comment-103</id>
		<updated>2013-01-03T02:04:00Z</updated>
		<published>2013-01-03T02:04:00Z</published>

					<content type="html" xml:base="https://blog.place4my.com/2012/05/28/what-do-ya-got/#comment-103"><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://blog.place4my.com/2012/05/28/what-do-ya-got/#comment-102">Bruce Timberlake</a>.</p>
<p> Oops.. you&#8217;re right.  I&#8217;ll get around to fixing that someday. Thanks for the heads up on my error.</p>
]]></content>
		
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				</entry>
		<entry>
		<title>
		Comment on What Do Ya Got by Bruce Timberlake		</title>
		<link rel="alternate" href="https://blog.place4my.com/2012/05/28/what-do-ya-got/#comment-102" type="text/html" />

		<author>
			<name>Bruce Timberlake</name>
			
		</author>

		<id>http://blog.place4my.com/?p=580#comment-102</id>
		<updated>2012-12-20T20:47:00Z</updated>
		<published>2012-12-20T20:47:00Z</published>

					<content type="html" xml:base="https://blog.place4my.com/2012/05/28/what-do-ya-got/#comment-102"><![CDATA[<p>New Hampshire is the &#8220;Live Free or Die&#8221; state, not Rhode Island.</p>
]]></content>
		
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