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	<title>Comments for Flopping Aces</title>
	
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		<title>Comment on George and Laura Bush Visit Victims of Fort Hood Shooting In Private by URI</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/george-and-laura-bush-visit-victims-of-fort-hood-shooting-in-private/#comment-254674</link>
		<dc:creator>URI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30264#comment-254674</guid>
		<description>The Spanish newspaper El Mundo just announced that the Obama's will be at Ft. Hood for the burial ceremony of the victims.
www.elmundo.es/america/2009
According to the news release, the WH has asked Japan to postpone their visit for one day, from Wednesday to Thursday. So, I assume that the ceremony is going to be Wednesday.

After the 9/11 terrorist act, this is the second act of such magnitude and I do think Obama should have traveled to Texas to show compasion and console the soldiers and their families. Sadly, I don't think that Obama knows what to do or how to act in this case.  He needs to grow up fast! 

Thank God for President Bush and his wife Laura. What a decent couple!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Spanish newspaper El Mundo just announced that the Obama&#8217;s will be at Ft. Hood for the burial ceremony of the victims.<br />
<a href="http://www.elmundo.es/america/2009" rel="nofollow">http://www.elmundo.es/america/2009</a><br />
According to the news release, the WH has asked Japan to postpone their visit for one day, from Wednesday to Thursday. So, I assume that the ceremony is going to be Wednesday.</p>
<p>After the 9/11 terrorist act, this is the second act of such magnitude and I do think Obama should have traveled to Texas to show compasion and console the soldiers and their families. Sadly, I don&#8217;t think that Obama knows what to do or how to act in this case.  He needs to grow up fast! </p>
<p>Thank God for President Bush and his wife Laura. What a decent couple!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Breaking:  Fort Hood Shooting (Open Thread) by Jenn Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/05/breakingfort-hood-shooting-open-thread/#comment-254673</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30191#comment-254673</guid>
		<description>Just to let everyone know, the pic of Jason and the little boy is his nephew, not my son.

I will put a link to some pics when I can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to let everyone know, the pic of Jason and the little boy is his nephew, not my son.</p>
<p>I will put a link to some pics when I can.</p>
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		<title>Comment on George and Laura Bush Visit Victims of Fort Hood Shooting In Private by drdeb</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/george-and-laura-bush-visit-victims-of-fort-hood-shooting-in-private/#comment-254672</link>
		<dc:creator>drdeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30264#comment-254672</guid>
		<description>President George W Bush:   Commander-in-Chief

Barack Hussein Obama:  Pretender-in-Chief

Believe me, the men and women in our military know the difference!


[Thank you President Bush for once again assuming the mantle of Comforter-in-Chief . . . I'm certain the soldiers at Fort Hood thanked you as well!]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>President George W Bush:   Commander-in-Chief</p>
<p>Barack Hussein Obama:  Pretender-in-Chief</p>
<p>Believe me, the men and women in our military know the difference!</p>
<p>[Thank you President Bush for once again assuming the mantle of Comforter-in-Chief . . . I'm certain the soldiers at Fort Hood thanked you as well!]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Will A Diverse Coalition Based On Myths Survive? [Reader Post] by twiga</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/06/will-a-diverse-coalition-based-on-myths-survive-reader-post/#comment-254671</link>
		<dc:creator>twiga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30230#comment-254671</guid>
		<description>The nub of my complimentary, well-reasoned comment was this:  We need a new and better counter-myth than just Founders/Framers, as powerful as that can be.  A charismatic leader always helps, but a bigger, better counter-myth... that may be key.  So friends, cogitate, dream, ask the nearest cat.

Then I looked at that authentication thingie... poof.  Another whiskey's worth of wordsmithing pixilated past packet-switching probability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The nub of my complimentary, well-reasoned comment was this:  We need a new and better counter-myth than just Founders/Framers, as powerful as that can be.  A charismatic leader always helps, but a bigger, better counter-myth&#8230; that may be key.  So friends, cogitate, dream, ask the nearest cat.</p>
<p>Then I looked at that authentication thingie&#8230; poof.  Another whiskey&#8217;s worth of wordsmithing pixilated past packet-switching probability.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Now &amp; Then by Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/06/now-then/#comment-254670</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30249#comment-254670</guid>
		<description>That was the most pathetic speech... he spent a whole four minutes talking about the tragedy and the rest of the 10 minutes going on about his Obama care. Un-f@ck!ng-real! Who gives CRAP about his healthcare reform... innocent people just died you idiot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was the most pathetic speech&#8230; he spent a whole four minutes talking about the tragedy and the rest of the 10 minutes going on about his Obama care. Un-f@ck!ng-real! Who gives CRAP about his healthcare reform&#8230; innocent people just died you idiot!</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Poll: 53% Oppose ObamaCare by openid.aol.com/runnswim</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/06/new-poll-53-oppose-obamacare/#comment-254669</link>
		<dc:creator>openid.aol.com/runnswim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30255#comment-254669</guid>
		<description>Ah, government by opinion poll.  If it had worked that way, we'd have withdrawn from Iraq years ago.  Government run by the people.  These would be the same people who can't even name their own congressman or Senators or governor?  Who couldn't begin to explain what a PPO is?  Much less the difference between the health care systems of Canada, England, and Germany.

You want a government run by the people?  Look no farther  than the State of California.  All of the important decisions are made by the voters. 

People who love America's founders should remember that the framers of our constitution did not even trust the people sufficiently to allow them to elect their own Senators, and that the electoral college was supposed to put a buffer between the people and the election of their President.

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, government by opinion poll.  If it had worked that way, we&#8217;d have withdrawn from Iraq years ago.  Government run by the people.  These would be the same people who can&#8217;t even name their own congressman or Senators or governor?  Who couldn&#8217;t begin to explain what a PPO is?  Much less the difference between the health care systems of Canada, England, and Germany.</p>
<p>You want a government run by the people?  Look no farther  than the State of California.  All of the important decisions are made by the voters. </p>
<p>People who love America&#8217;s founders should remember that the framers of our constitution did not even trust the people sufficiently to allow them to elect their own Senators, and that the electoral college was supposed to put a buffer between the people and the election of their President.</p>
<p>- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pages, Costs, and Agencies Added To The Obama/Pelosi Health Care Behemoth by Old Trooper</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/pages-costs-and-agencies-added-to-the-obamapelosi-health-care-behemoth/#comment-254668</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Trooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30261#comment-254668</guid>
		<description>Too many Agencies, Boards and too stupidly bureaucratic / expensive for the Majority of Americans. It is a BS Ratmaze. Period.

It will be a Monster, produce a wild deficit spike and destroy Health Care availability as well as Private Insurance that survives on a 3% margin. My TRICARE Premiums are going to be increased again and that will affect Retired and Active Duty Military Families that don't make six figures a year by any stretch. 

It is time to stop the BS on this. Period. Reduced Quality of Care, is coming if this is signed into Law. Do the math. Congress has not, neither has the Senate or the Socialists in the White House. They will just print more money, raise taxes and control roughly 1/6th MORE of the Economy. This is Crap and Americans will suffer from this travesty for a generation or so. It takes that long to make useless CRAP like this go away.

Anyone that supports this needs to get off the pipe. This is exactly what happens when Idiots are sent to DC and Fools vote for Bills that they have not read or understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many Agencies, Boards and too stupidly bureaucratic / expensive for the Majority of Americans. It is a BS Ratmaze. Period.</p>
<p>It will be a Monster, produce a wild deficit spike and destroy Health Care availability as well as Private Insurance that survives on a 3% margin. My TRICARE Premiums are going to be increased again and that will affect Retired and Active Duty Military Families that don&#8217;t make six figures a year by any stretch. </p>
<p>It is time to stop the BS on this. Period. Reduced Quality of Care, is coming if this is signed into Law. Do the math. Congress has not, neither has the Senate or the Socialists in the White House. They will just print more money, raise taxes and control roughly 1/6th MORE of the Economy. This is Crap and Americans will suffer from this travesty for a generation or so. It takes that long to make useless CRAP like this go away.</p>
<p>Anyone that supports this needs to get off the pipe. This is exactly what happens when Idiots are sent to DC and Fools vote for Bills that they have not read or understand.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pages, Costs, and Agencies Added To The Obama/Pelosi Health Care Behemoth by openid.aol.com/runnswim</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/pages-costs-and-agencies-added-to-the-obamapelosi-health-care-behemoth/#comment-254667</link>
		<dc:creator>openid.aol.com/runnswim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30261#comment-254667</guid>
		<description>Here's the problem: The cost of privately-run health programs rose even more than the cost of government-run health programs. One way or another, we are going to have to pay the costs of health care.  The implication of Mike's post in #6 is that the reason expenses exceeded budget was because of government inefficiency, waste, fraud, etc.  There may have been a bit of that; but there's inefficiency, waste, fraud, etc. in privately-administered health care plans, as well.  The reason costs have sykrocketed beyond budget is because the cost of health care has skyrocketed.

Health insurance premiums for small businesses are going up 15% in this year alone, after more than doubling during President Bush's tenure.  Even as benefits are going down and out of pocket costs are going up.  

Look at the economy and business environment, right now.  You think that the 15% increase wouldn't be just as much of a job killer as any tax increase?  And the increased out of pocket costs won't be a burden on consumer spending and saving?  But tax increases to pay for Medicare (even to make Medicare solvent) would have been less, over the years, than the increases in private insurance premiums plus increases in out of pocket costs would have been.  

I think that there are many creative ways to attack the Pelosi health care bill and Obamacare in general.  I compliment the FA contributors for their scholarship and diligence in finding flaws in the general Democratic health care initiative.  But arguing this on the basis of total cost is the weakest argument which you can make against this bill.  It won't increase total costs (insurance premiums + taxes + out of pocket costs) beyond what they are going to be in the absence of health care reform.  

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the problem: The cost of privately-run health programs rose even more than the cost of government-run health programs. One way or another, we are going to have to pay the costs of health care.  The implication of Mike&#8217;s post in #6 is that the reason expenses exceeded budget was because of government inefficiency, waste, fraud, etc.  There may have been a bit of that; but there&#8217;s inefficiency, waste, fraud, etc. in privately-administered health care plans, as well.  The reason costs have sykrocketed beyond budget is because the cost of health care has skyrocketed.</p>
<p>Health insurance premiums for small businesses are going up 15% in this year alone, after more than doubling during President Bush&#8217;s tenure.  Even as benefits are going down and out of pocket costs are going up.  </p>
<p>Look at the economy and business environment, right now.  You think that the 15% increase wouldn&#8217;t be just as much of a job killer as any tax increase?  And the increased out of pocket costs won&#8217;t be a burden on consumer spending and saving?  But tax increases to pay for Medicare (even to make Medicare solvent) would have been less, over the years, than the increases in private insurance premiums plus increases in out of pocket costs would have been.  </p>
<p>I think that there are many creative ways to attack the Pelosi health care bill and Obamacare in general.  I compliment the FA contributors for their scholarship and diligence in finding flaws in the general Democratic health care initiative.  But arguing this on the basis of total cost is the weakest argument which you can make against this bill.  It won&#8217;t increase total costs (insurance premiums + taxes + out of pocket costs) beyond what they are going to be in the absence of health care reform.  </p>
<p>- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pages, Costs, and Agencies Added To The Obama/Pelosi Health Care Behemoth by Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/pages-costs-and-agencies-added-to-the-obamapelosi-health-care-behemoth/#comment-254666</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30261#comment-254666</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-254643" rel="nofollow"&gt;Temujin&lt;/a&gt; says: &lt;i&gt;"Review projections for social security, medicare, senior prescription drugs, and any other government run program and show me even one that came in anywhere near the initial budget or projections."&lt;/i&gt;

Right you are!

&lt;a href="http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/mikesamerica2/?action=view&amp;current=ED-AK368_1healt_D_20091019182913.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;img src="http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/mikesamerica2/ED-AK368_1healt_D_20091019182913.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-254643" rel="nofollow">Temujin</a> says: <i>&#8220;Review projections for social security, medicare, senior prescription drugs, and any other government run program and show me even one that came in anywhere near the initial budget or projections.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Right you are!</p>
<p><a href="http://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/mikesamerica2/?action=view&#038;current=ED-AK368_1healt_D_20091019182913.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/mikesamerica2/ED-AK368_1healt_D_20091019182913.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Fort Hood shooter still alive by Red 73</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/05/ft-hood-shooter-still-alive/#comment-254663</link>
		<dc:creator>Red 73</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/05/ft-hood-shooter-still-alive/#comment-254663</guid>
		<description>Well if you believe Muslims have no business in the US military, then do you also believe they have no “business” living in the United States?

Everyone should own one. That should cut down on their propagation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if you believe Muslims have no business in the US military, then do you also believe they have no “business” living in the United States?</p>
<p>Everyone should own one. That should cut down on their propagation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Now &amp; Then by Red 73</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/06/now-then/#comment-254662</link>
		<dc:creator>Red 73</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30249#comment-254662</guid>
		<description>OMG does the insanity ever stop with this putz???

Which putz you ask? The chief Marxist living at 1600. He has no respect for the military or the citizenry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG does the insanity ever stop with this putz???</p>
<p>Which putz you ask? The chief Marxist living at 1600. He has no respect for the military or the citizenry.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Weekly Open Thread – Bumped by DAWillie</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/07/27/weekly-open-thread-9/#comment-254661</link>
		<dc:creator>DAWillie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=25269#comment-254661</guid>
		<description>Guten Tag! 
Ich bin ganz neu hier. Leider kann ich nur die deutsche Sprache. Ich hoffe das mich hier jemand verstehen kann. Ich bin auf der Suche nach einem Besitzer die genau wie ich so glücklich von den Retrievern (vor allem die Goldenen :-)).

Ich habe viele Informationen über diese tollen Tiere gefunden. Zum Beispiel hier kann man alles ueber die Retriever erfahren. Von Geschichte bis zur Rassenbeschreibung.

Guck einfach auf dieser &lt;a href="http://gabrieleshunde6.blog.com/2009/10/20/retriever-geschichte/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Retriever&lt;/a&gt; URL. Hier solltest Du einiges finden.

Ich wuerde mich sehr freuen, wenn es jemand hilft sich fuer diese Rasse zu entscheiden.

tschuess

Danni</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guten Tag!<br />
Ich bin ganz neu hier. Leider kann ich nur die deutsche Sprache. Ich hoffe das mich hier jemand verstehen kann. Ich bin auf der Suche nach einem Besitzer die genau wie ich so glücklich von den Retrievern (vor allem die Goldenen <img src='http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
<p>Ich habe viele Informationen über diese tollen Tiere gefunden. Zum Beispiel hier kann man alles ueber die Retriever erfahren. Von Geschichte bis zur Rassenbeschreibung.</p>
<p>Guck einfach auf dieser <a href="http://gabrieleshunde6.blog.com/2009/10/20/retriever-geschichte/" rel="nofollow">Retriever</a> URL. Hier solltest Du einiges finden.</p>
<p>Ich wuerde mich sehr freuen, wenn es jemand hilft sich fuer diese Rasse zu entscheiden.</p>
<p>tschuess</p>
<p>Danni</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pages, Costs, and Agencies Added To The Obama/Pelosi Health Care Behemoth by Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/pages-costs-and-agencies-added-to-the-obamapelosi-health-care-behemoth/#comment-254659</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30261#comment-254659</guid>
		<description>Larry, that was actually I point I had considered and was digging around on - "Does my current insurance company pay for abortions?" 

I can't quite well say "I don't want this in the public option" if my current insurance company does in good conscience.

HOWEVER, there is a group of people out there who think that "Planned Parenthood" is nothing more than a hidden genocidal movement. And lets face it, it doesn't look good when you look at Margaret Sanger and the history there.

Now, comes the question - if abortion IS included, how many abortions will be at the hands of "Planned Parenthood" - the people that believe this is a genocide movement will now have the idea that this is government endorsed genocide.

All I will say is - good luck with that when addressing these people and their concerns.

(There is a side issue with Abortion and the legal system I have but that will wait for another thread).

On a related note to the whole mess:
&lt;a href="http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583" rel="nofollow"&gt;PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail&lt;/a&gt;

Also - look at the JCT letter linked from that article:
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/JCTletter110509.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, that was actually I point I had considered and was digging around on &#8211; &#8220;Does my current insurance company pay for abortions?&#8221; </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t quite well say &#8220;I don&#8217;t want this in the public option&#8221; if my current insurance company does in good conscience.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, there is a group of people out there who think that &#8220;Planned Parenthood&#8221; is nothing more than a hidden genocidal movement. And lets face it, it doesn&#8217;t look good when you look at Margaret Sanger and the history there.</p>
<p>Now, comes the question &#8211; if abortion IS included, how many abortions will be at the hands of &#8220;Planned Parenthood&#8221; &#8211; the people that believe this is a genocide movement will now have the idea that this is government endorsed genocide.</p>
<p>All I will say is &#8211; good luck with that when addressing these people and their concerns.</p>
<p>(There is a side issue with Abortion and the legal system I have but that will wait for another thread).</p>
<p>On a related note to the whole mess:<br />
<a href="http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583" rel="nofollow">PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail</a></p>
<p>Also &#8211; look at the JCT letter linked from that article:<br />
<a href="http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/JCTletter110509.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/JCTletter110509.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Now &amp; Then by Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/06/now-then/#comment-254658</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30249#comment-254658</guid>
		<description>stopthepresses2: That about sums up how I feel in his statements so far.

"Some people were killed at Ft. Hood. It sucks, but they're looking into it. Now, let me talk to you about something really important ...."

Even NBC took a swing at him:
&lt;a href="http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting&lt;/a&gt;

"But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks."


I know this must upset all those who would otherwise say "Oh, it's FOX, you can't take them seriously!" This is "one of their own" so this must sting a bit. And none of my liberal friends/co-workers haven't shot back with their usual responses so ... 

So, did Zero learn something about "leaping to conclusions" or is it still the same and just not "ok" for anyone else to jump to conclusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stopthepresses2: That about sums up how I feel in his statements so far.</p>
<p>&#8220;Some people were killed at Ft. Hood. It sucks, but they&#8217;re looking into it. Now, let me talk to you about something really important &#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even NBC took a swing at him:<br />
<a href="http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html" rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting</a></p>
<p>&#8220;But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know this must upset all those who would otherwise say &#8220;Oh, it&#8217;s FOX, you can&#8217;t take them seriously!&#8221; This is &#8220;one of their own&#8221; so this must sting a bit. And none of my liberal friends/co-workers haven&#8217;t shot back with their usual responses so &#8230; </p>
<p>So, did Zero learn something about &#8220;leaping to conclusions&#8221; or is it still the same and just not &#8220;ok&#8221; for anyone else to jump to conclusions.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pages, Costs, and Agencies Added To The Obama/Pelosi Health Care Behemoth by openid.aol.com/runnswim</title>
		<link>http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/07/pages-costs-and-agencies-added-to-the-obamapelosi-health-care-behemoth/#comment-254657</link>
		<dc:creator>openid.aol.com/runnswim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=30261#comment-254657</guid>
		<description>The purpose of this post is not to be contentious or argue in favor of any particular point of view.  I've stated my own views on the Obamacare debate in some detail elsewhere; at present I'm not seeking to start this again (among other things, my personal time schedule wouldn't permit me to get into the usual one against six debate which is the invariable outcome).  So, once again, I'm not seeking a debate; I'm simply seeking a reaction to a very, very narrow question.

To wit:

The abortion issue.

Now, virtually all private insurance plans pay for abortion. You buy United Health Care or Aetna or Blue Cross or Humana and pay more in premiums than you get back in health care services and you are directly subsidizing abortions.   That's the reality.  The fact is, you are voluntarily doing this: it isn't some program imposed on you by government.  Private insurance pays for most of the abortions which take place in this country.  You choose to buy private health insurance (or you accept private health insurance from your employer) and you are directly subsidizing abortions, of your own free choice.

Now, what's going on now, in the House, is interesting.  No guarantee how this is going to turn out. No guarantee that the final bill won't be changed in Senate/House reconciliation, etc.  But, just for the sake of academic argument, let's say that what seems to be going on now actually ends up being the way the final bill gets signed into law.

In order to get enough votes to pass, Pelosi may be forced to give in to demands from conservative Democrats (no, that's not entirely an oxymoron) that the final bill puts in a total prohibition against the "public option" plan paying for any abortion services and for government-subsidized private plans paying for any abortion services.

Now, what this would do (stay with me on this) is to force lots of people who would otherwise be covered by private health insurance which pays for abortions into a public plan (or publicly subsidized private plan) which did NOT pay for abortions.  Hence, the total number of abortions actually performed would certainly go down (not close to zero and maybe only by 10% or so or whatever, but they would still go down).

In fact, for someone who didn't want to subsidize abortions with his (or his employer's, which is the same thing) own money, the only option might be the "public option."

Wouldn't that be just a tad bit ironic?

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The purpose of this post is not to be contentious or argue in favor of any particular point of view.  I&#8217;ve stated my own views on the Obamacare debate in some detail elsewhere; at present I&#8217;m not seeking to start this again (among other things, my personal time schedule wouldn&#8217;t permit me to get into the usual one against six debate which is the invariable outcome).  So, once again, I&#8217;m not seeking a debate; I&#8217;m simply seeking a reaction to a very, very narrow question.</p>
<p>To wit:</p>
<p>The abortion issue.</p>
<p>Now, virtually all private insurance plans pay for abortion. You buy United Health Care or Aetna or Blue Cross or Humana and pay more in premiums than you get back in health care services and you are directly subsidizing abortions.   That&#8217;s the reality.  The fact is, you are voluntarily doing this: it isn&#8217;t some program imposed on you by government.  Private insurance pays for most of the abortions which take place in this country.  You choose to buy private health insurance (or you accept private health insurance from your employer) and you are directly subsidizing abortions, of your own free choice.</p>
<p>Now, what&#8217;s going on now, in the House, is interesting.  No guarantee how this is going to turn out. No guarantee that the final bill won&#8217;t be changed in Senate/House reconciliation, etc.  But, just for the sake of academic argument, let&#8217;s say that what seems to be going on now actually ends up being the way the final bill gets signed into law.</p>
<p>In order to get enough votes to pass, Pelosi may be forced to give in to demands from conservative Democrats (no, that&#8217;s not entirely an oxymoron) that the final bill puts in a total prohibition against the &#8220;public option&#8221; plan paying for any abortion services and for government-subsidized private plans paying for any abortion services.</p>
<p>Now, what this would do (stay with me on this) is to force lots of people who would otherwise be covered by private health insurance which pays for abortions into a public plan (or publicly subsidized private plan) which did NOT pay for abortions.  Hence, the total number of abortions actually performed would certainly go down (not close to zero and maybe only by 10% or so or whatever, but they would still go down).</p>
<p>In fact, for someone who didn&#8217;t want to subsidize abortions with his (or his employer&#8217;s, which is the same thing) own money, the only option might be the &#8220;public option.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t that be just a tad bit ironic?</p>
<p>- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA</p>
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