I know there is a lot of overlap with your current book, but with an engaged couple you have the challenges of NOT being able to fully explore sexuality like a married couple can with each other, and the challenge of trying to work out expectations etc. when one or both may not have the experience to know what their expectations really will be once they get into it. I can make a list of things I wish we had talked about or been told about when we were engaged, but never even came close to touching.

Plus, your current book I think is seen (to some degree) as a tool to help a marriage in some kind of trouble and not as a tool to prepare for married life. I think it would be a good thing and fill a big need to have a book like that from you. If you start now you might be done before any of my kids need it.

Any idea what it would take to turn these into a full blown O?

I wish I had some advice or something I could say that would help you. I know people who have changed their primary love language to something other than sexual expression. I have tried to do that myself, and it has been difficult–I chose acting out as a way to “medicate” myself. That was a dead end, and just caused more damage.

Those who have changed their love language have taken up hobbies and such, and have found a great deal of happiness that substitutes for the hole left from rejection in marriage. Sad, but this was the only answer they had. Some people, as Laura indicates, don’t get to have their cake in this life and eat it too. I can’t say you are in that position, but it sounds like you are in a very sad and low place.

How is your faith with God? Are you clean and sqare with Him? Religious or not, I do know there is help from a “higher power” as I have found that out for myself. Just a suggestion as sometimes the pain can be unbearable (something I know about as well).

The book “Sex Starved Marriage” might be useful for you. Laura Brotherson’s book is also recommended. Regardless, I wish you all the hope and happiness you are able to find.

Please keep writing here if you can.

Hi Rob,

I’m finally getting to commenting on your comment as per your request (…though people don’t have to specifically request a comment!)

Because I work with many couples that sound in many ways similar to Steve and his wife, I can say that there are many reasons (unknown to us) that his wife may not be willing or able to respond to him sexually. Of course that can range from trust issues that remain from something like pornography or infidelity, or it could be more about her own personal issues (i.e. abuse, depression, etc.) that have little or at least less to do with Steve. Just as a side note, just because Steve is repentant or clean it may or may not have any direct bearing on where his wife is in her own healing or recovery process.

It sounds like Steve was certainly blessed with a feeling of unconditional love and acceptance for his wife despite her lack of responsiveness to him and his intimate needs. I do think you may be jumping to a possibly inaccurate conclusion that the sexual issues won’t be resolved in this life, but nevertheless the point, it sounds like, is that Steve has been able to come to a place of peace with his less-than-ideal sexual situation.

Beyond the gift of peace and unconditional love that Steve was granted (or had “developed” from his many positive efforts to overcome their challenges, it sounds he was “blessed” with another potential gift in the making–an “opportunity” to develop an exquisite degree of mental discipline and self-mastery. It’s often not a welcome gift, but it’s achievement is a great gift indeed!

I do believe him when he says that he does have peace and joy despite what may seem to outside observers a very sad situation sexually. I have seen many people develop the ability to also have peace and even joy in a wide variety of difficult and less-than-ideal circumstances. I believe that is the calling for all of us to some degree to seek God’s grace and enabling power to endure and even find joy in life’s many challenging and even unfortunate situations.

I guess it makes me think of the couples where there may be one spouse with an advanced disabling disease such as Multiple Sclerosis, or sexual abuse, or past infidelity that is not yet healed on the part of one of the spouse’s where the other has been able to develop such a relationship with the Lord that they are able to obtain peace and even joy because of the acceptance/surrender and unconditional love (love without conditions, love despite trying circumstances, etc.) that they are able to have for themselves and their spouse despite…the list is endless!

Yes, I can imagine a husband going through life sacrificing sex with his wife because he has made a covenant with the Lord to love and to honor her (and the marriage) for better or for worse, no matter what! I can also imagine a wife sacrificing emotional connection with her husband for the rest of her life because she has made a covenant with the Lord to love and to honor her husband for better or for worse, no matter what! I can also imagine unmarried individuals sacrificing sex and the associated intimate companionship for their whole lives because they have made a covenant with the Lord to be chaste and virtuous and endure to the end, no matter what! I could go on and on…

That’s not to say that everyone should just suffer whatever horrible situation they are in, but my personal and professional guess is that the “less-than-ideal” situations in our lives are the means by which the Lord can polish and refine his children here in mortality.

I can’t tell you how honored I am to know of your friend, Steve! I know of others like him! I do believe that he is doing the best he can with a very difficult situation and even thriving in it because of the “heart transplant” he has had with the help of the Lord! I love what you said:

When he feels the need and desire to be loved, he turns to God for validation, not his wife. This has been his lifestyle for 15 years.

That is incredible and awe-inspiring. It is exactly what I have had to painfully help clients learn and develop for a wide variety of very difficult situations that they too face that they do not have the direct power to change. And the truth is that getting to the point where you truly don’t need the other person to change is exactly what increases the chances that they will! And sometimes the whole thing is simply about us learning to have faith, trust in the Lord and a willingness to surrender our will to His will (and timing!).

It sounds like Steve and the bishop you speak of have both gotten to that rare state of true, surrender. It’s trusting that somehow God will make things right just like we are promised repeatedly in the scriptures:

D&C 122:7 – “And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.”

D&C 105:40 – “…and all things shall work together for your good.”

Romans 8:28 — “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God…”

2 Nephi 2:2 – “…thou knowest the greatness of God; and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain.”

Mosiah 4:9 — (God knows more than we do! Even when things don’t make sense we can trust in God) — “Believe in God; believe that he is…believe that he has all wisdom, and all power…believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend.”

Rob4Hope, yes I do still believe that God does universally want us all to be happy sexually in our marriages in this life, but He also recognizes that that may not be the case for everyone. Agency and our life experiences play into the choices we each make and the abilities we each have.

Sexual fulfillment and joy in marriage is certainly something every couple ought to work toward, but there will always be situations or circumstances that may preclude that, at least for a time. Not everyone gets everything they want in this life…think of those couples who are childless, think of those individuals who are spouse-less, think of those who struggle with compulsive behavior and addictions who have not yet overcome the addiction…the list can go on and on!

I personally do not think you are that unusual that you have many close friends that are not happy with the sexual relationship in their marriages. I do believe that there are so few marriages overall that really get what God intended for not only the sexual relationship, but for the relationship as a whole that I am not surprised at all.

I think I once estimated that of all current marriages it would be may be 15-25% of marriages that I think really get it! This is exactly why I do what I do to help couples try to get it! The path is not easy for most of us and it inevitably requires some major “heart surgery” to help us become the polished and refined souls that God wants and needs us to be!

I hope something here gives you and others something helpful to ponder! Hang in there! : )

I fell hopelessly in love at first sight while on vacation. The sex was great at first, but deminished rapidly after the vows were exchanged. Gradually, she asked for and received dispensation from cuddling in bed (I generate too much heat), from snuggling on the couch (she feels claustrophobic), from holding hands (my hands sweat), and from hugs (they invade her personal space). She was never a big kisser (No, halitosis is not a problem on either side). This happened so gradually, that I didn’t even consciously realize that we eventually could some up the total voluntary physical contact time to that which occurred during sex.

I did anything and everything to make her happy and was always quick with praise, flowers, and gifts. I took on most of the housework. At several points along the way, I asked if I was doing something wrong or what I could do better or different, but was always assured that everything would be well if I just stopped hugging, kissing, touching, and cuddling. I wanted so much to believe this, that I stilled the inner voice screaming alert messages by telling myself I was just being insecure.

Though she didn’t say so, I thought the long hours at work were to blame, so I changed to a job that gave me more time at home. We had a child, and she became a stay-at-home mom. There was no financial stress from this, though. Then the strategically timed bickering started. She would wait ’til just before bed time and demand to know why I hadn’t taken out the garbage out in the morning or mowed the lawn, or failed in some other minor way to be the completely diligent domestic. It didn’t matter how conciliatory I became, she would storm off to bed in a huff. Sex all but stopped.

One day she started one of these fights about the lawn not being mowed in the evening and got all worked up. I reminded her that I had mowed the lawn that day. She still stormed off to bed. I finally tweaked. I asked her before she could pretend she was asleep what was going on and addressed the constant bickering and the fact that sex was now down to once every other month (and then only after begging) -no response. The strategically timed bickering stopped but the migraines started – every day. I was in denial. I thought she had a brain tumor and had her see specialists, but nothing helped. She continued to reassure me that the marriage was fine and that she would love to have sex, but for the migraines. Then one day after telling me she was having a terrible migraine her sister called. Suddenly she was laughing and chatting away ’til the wee hours. Finally, I forced myself to face reality.

I confronted my spouse. She told me that counseling wouldn’t help because a counselor can’t change the way she feels (or doesn’t feel). She told me there wasn’t anything I could do, that it wasn’t going to get better, and that it was probably going to get worse. she attributed the problem (a complete lack of a sex drive, and an inability to get ANY pleasure from sex) to early menopause (it’s possible but rare at age 39). I researched this problem, and found several clinical and homeopathic approaches. She refused hormone replacement therapy (HRT) due to the increased cancer risk. Even variations on HRT and homeopathic methods were rejected for the possible increase in cancer risk (she assumed there must be a cancer risk). She told me if I must have it (sex) that I should make a date a week in advance, so she could prepare herself, and get it over with as soon as possible. Like she was being asked to run the gauntlet.

The next day, I tearfully told her that I could not accept the life of a married celibate, and that sex under her conditions was more like rape or prostitution or masturbation with someone else present. I told her that after ending sex and all other forms of intimacy, our marriage was now a desert of lonliness for me. I brought up divorce. She said she didn’t mean what she said, and that everything would be ok. She made suggestions for improving things. I was always quick to bring flowers, gifts, praise, but I redoubled my efforts for I so wanted to believe this was fixable. I followed every suggestion and researched new ones. I couldn’t face the fact that our last chance had already been destroyed by making the above implied ultimatum…

Eventually, we tried again. The sex was worse than no sex at all. I felt so dirty, ashamed, and guilty. Worse, it poisoned my memories of happier times, as she clearly was faking her participation in a manner that caused me to doubt if she had ever felt any joy in sex wth me.

I spent the next 20 months in a terrible depression. I now doubt if any of my happy memories from my marriage are real or just my wishful thinking. I stopped trying to initiate sex, and cringed when she would suggest it. We’re celibate again. Our marriage is in a worsening cycle. I feel rejected, unworthy, and unloved, so I become distant and surly. She gets defensive, and rationalizes the situation as my fault.

For a while I tried to think of my wife as the maid or a really efficient nanny. Unfortunately, when I looked at her, my heart would break all over again, and I remember. But for our child I would have left long ago.

Now, I’m done. I’m ready for divorce. Truely, I am one of God’s cursed for I still love the woman. For an unsolicited carress, or a joyful and spontaneous kiss from her, I would bow down and kiss her feet in gratitude and forgiveness. But I accept now that this is not going to happen. I love my sanity and what’s left of my self-esteem too much to live like this. I can not live in grief for the next 20 years. I accept that this will alienate my child from me, and that I will be ostracized by our friends, and that I will suffer great economic hardship for many years. But it must be.

I hope this wall of text is not too depressing for you. When I read back through it, I weep all over again.

However, just yesterday (literally), I was on the telephone with Steve and his wife (they are NOT related to me, but are close friends), and asked a question about my relationship with my wife. I heard his wife say: “I have told Steve many times I would be fine if we never had sex again,…but I have sex with him because I love him and it is important to him”. In her case, however, sex is sparse–VERY sparse. But, Steve has a good attitude.

He has told me that they are actually having BETTER sex than they ever have,…not more–just better. However, this guy made a shift. Don’t know how he did it, but he did. Sex is not his language any more. He switched it somehow.

Yes, the wife has trauma in her past. She was hurt badly as a young woman by people who should have protected her. Nuff said. It colors everything.

Steve’s wife might have a mental illness, or some trauma in her past that makes her less able (and so less accountable) in this area, so I don’t rule out Steve’s experience as being true. I think what he was told was to modify his attitude toward her though.

I sometimes wonder just what level of detail we knew about our life here when we chose to come. What if back then we did know all the horrible things that would happen to us, but also knowing what would come out of it chose to accept the very trials we have today.