I do take issue on the comment about gambling. Gambling is not a panacea for all problems, the point that you are missing, and it is an important one, gambling is already here and Erie will embrace all the effects and not get much of the money. If gambling is expanded, and most likely it will as the Govenor and the State of Pennsylvania protects its cash flow, why should not Erie use the synergy to jump start the
Bayfront and participate in the cash flow rather than let that expansion only benefit Summitt Township. Summitt Township will not be hurt if a casino is developed on the Bayfront because it will attract more affluent
people with yachts from surrounding areas including Canada and both casinos could contribute to the success of the race track attracting even better horses and expand the impact of the horse industry .building larger horse facilities in the area. I am not talking about Vegas, Atlantic City, or even small gambling places like Lake Havasu, just one well placed, architecturaly protected zoning overlay for a specific area only, namely a Bayfront Casino special use district, that will involve solving the traffic, access problem and putting most of that cost burden on the Casino Developer, plus an additional City Tax on gambling revenue on the Bayfront. NO TAXPAYER FUN DS………..
Only a Casino could afford that burden and be required to build/or cause to be built an indoor theme park, specialty shopping as well as another major hotel. I am not a land use planner or a major developer and both the planning department, City of Erie, Bayfront Authority and the master developer will have their own criteria that will obviously require flexibility but conceptually if Erie is going to feel the pain because gambling is already here and any expansion will also effect Erie, why not participate in the gain?

San Diego and Boston both have their problems. But they also have achieved a synergy in their urban development that we have not been able to achieve. And both did it without gaming. George would say the gaming gives us an advantage. I would say it gives us an opportunity to study synergistic development that is not gaming dependent. The point is, either way you approach it, there are lessons to be learned, if we seriously want to achieve a degree of what other areas of the country have done. North south east or west, examples are there for the observing.

But one thing is certain, the old style shot gun approach hasn’t worked in the past, and no one can point to it working any better in the future. And no one can insure that the state or federal governments will give us the resources to somehow magically make everything wonderful, generating full employment via family sustaining wage job opportunities for all who want to work. Wish it were true..

That Erie has potential is nothing out of the ordinary. Everyplace has potential. It is what you do with that potential that determines whether or not you achieve anything positive. Waiting for others to do it, or fund it for you, is not a very proactive approach in my estimation.

I think part of the problem is that over the years everything is looked at as a single unrelated issue. Little, if any, thought is given how any specific project relates to any other to build a momentum. And absolutely no thought is given to the needs of conveyance requirements as build out occurs. Peach Street in Millcreek, and the BayFront Highway constitute two examples. Right now, we are talking about further development of the bay front area, in attempt to make investments in the area pay off, like the convention center. The BayFRont Highway, is already congested, and has been since the day it opened. Now as part of the future development, are we talking about anything that would assist in handling that congestion? I attended a port authority meeting, and to the contrary at one session an idea was offered to install a traffic circle at State and the BayFront essentially slowing things down even more. With the regions Trauma Center right there, making it even more difficult to get an ambulance in and out of Hamot, especially during rush hours. When I mentioned that everyone just looked at me like I had rocks in my head, so I pointed out that Hamot was the chief reason for the BayFront being built in the first place, as they were demanding the bay front neighborhood be cleaned up, and better access to their facility. The point is, things need to be looked at with at least some consideration on how they impact the overall.

Oh well, enough of that. As a community, we need to now get behind putting Erie Coke out of business. After all there must have been a reason the Port Authority left them off their master plan.

I do not know the innermost working on how Erie works and have no first hand knowledge of how San Diego power structure works. More than likely not much that is really good happens when people find themselves in positions of power whether by design or by the results of an appointment or election. Power can be corruptive and things happen behind the scenes that would cause most people to cringe.
I am from Boston, the area of the “Big Dig”, Massachusetts takes corruption to a new level. Even the Tullio administration, according to the comments on this blog would not favorably compare to the level of corruption in Boston. My experience in Arizona with politicians makes Billy the Kidd look like a boy scout.

My point is that the political game is filled with conflicts of interest at best and outright corruption at its worst.
The last thing that is considered is the best things for the community.
That is the overall view on a generalized basis but obviously there are
exceptions, in my opinion, John Elliott is one person I have met in Erie that I feel is competent, spiritual and honest and would make a good leader for Erie, but I have not personally met very many local politicians
but have heard the colorful stories of past political figures.

I am not the pollyana that some people feel obliged to lable but I do understand demographics and the potential for abuse of political power
as a deterent to good planning I am not trying to spoil my optomistic bent for the future of Erie but if I focus any more on negative perspecitives I will create that which I focus upon and therefore chose to focus on more positive outcomes. The more groups like Envision Erie,
Young Erie Professionals and community residents join together and focus on what really is beneficial for the community and create the political “will” of the community with a large enough force to make a difference the better chance Erie will have to rise above the political flack that has held this area in the past. When the right consultants get hired and projects that the community reject become approved regardless of community support it is time to form active non-political support that insists on honest representation of community will that becomes a political force because of its size and ability to shape election results based up community support.

There are no perfect Cites that honestly represent the best interest of the community on every issue, money and political power has not worked that way in many areas and Erie is an example of what happens when an area for decades abused their oath to represent the best interest of the community.

Except for the normal, take care of your own supporters, in my opinion, the current Erie administration is much improved over previous administrations. The Mayor needs to figure out a way to get a majority of the City Council to back his agenda and to be more assertive when marketing his message to the community. Hope does spring eternal
but the proof is going to in the results and time will settle the outcome.
Erie has tremendous potential —but so did Rome.

Despite my seemingly pessimistic outlook for Erie, perhaps you are keying in on something important here. You keep mentioning San Diego, and I know you are from “out west” …. could you give some background on their local political climate viz-a-viz Erie’s ?

I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say that the places I mentioned as counter-examples (Atlantic City NJ, Cleveland OH) are burdened with a legacy of old-line Democratic ‘machine’ politics…..similar to the long-running Tullio era which Jim mentions here from time to time.

As an independent and a libertarian, I don’t think that it’s necessarily a simplistic situation of ‘Democrats good, Republicans bad’. And I think that every town has a ‘power structure’ with ‘movers and shakers’ of one sort or another. Rather, something else —maybe more subtle— is at work here. Can San Diego give us some clues ?

Taken on a point-by-point basis, I can’t find fault with what you wrote in your latest post. In fact, we probably agree on more than we disagree It’s just that —having sadly seen the long-term decline of Erie first hand from the inside out— it’s difficult for some of us to take the leaps of faith that come so naturally to you. In fact, I hope you’re correct.

My point may not have been articulated properly or maybe what I said
did not convey the message clearly.

Erie, in my opinion has not yet arrived as a City with a life style that has attracted middle class or upper middle class residents to the downtown area. If the Bayfront were ever to become a first class tourist destination like Seaport Village in San Diego with hgher end specialty shopping, a high end yacht club, four star hotels, a first class Casino and national known enertainment and an indoor beach opening to the lake or maybe a first class family theme park if gambling were not allowed and that synergy extended itself to downtown/midtown and places like the Tullio Center, the ball park and Warner Theatre for exammple were updated that snyergy of energy would extend to downtown and maybe more of the people that worked in the area purchased residences and the character of the area changed, in my opinion, that would be an improvement over the existing situation where the Convention Center/Hotel was basically an island without synergy and without much of a connection to anything and would most likely become a white elephant serving only local shows at a tremendous loss of money for the City.

It seemed to me that the sum of the potential development would be worth more than the individual parts and it could provide a nucleaus of momentum that could crank the potential of the total area as a more attractive place to work and reside. If properly planned could emulate what cities like Phoenix and San Diego did, when prior to such development the downtown area was not a place many people wanted to live. Maybe that is polyanish but waterfront property has that kind of potential but only if properly planned and community supported with the willingness to engage the will and determination to rise above petty politics and the local power structure. The demographics support quality development and the surrounding market within 500 miles support those demographics but only if the winter months are mitiigated with a substantial draw like an indoor beach/theme park or a family theme park of equal significance.

If the political message is that you have to hire certain consultants and be connected with the local power structure to get anything accomplished politically that sends a different message to the higher end developer who would rather have a more certain path to undertake
rather than to try to figure out where the local rocks are.

The market is the market and the demographics are known to developers such a Scott Enterprises and others who understand
where the rocks are. If the Governors plan goes forward and full gaming is allowed the private developers will fill that demand, but the Bayfront, it seems to me, stands out for its development potential because it is on the water and waterfront property is difficult to duplicate
but moving from the IP site to Summitt Township did not seem to hurt the existing Casino and I am sure that could live without the competition. Life will go on, I am just suggesting that Erie might want to participate but it is not a requirement.

Is their something about successful development potential for the Bayfront that would cause Erie to choose not to actively participate?

Atlantic City is precisely the urban paradigm which comes to mind in this context, unfortunately. Or maybe downtown Cleveland with Jacobs Field, Gund Arena, etc. where any ‘prosperity’ is highly localized, the streets are deserted when an event is not in progress (even during an event if you go more than a few blocks in any direction), and basically no one who values their safety ventures too far off the beaten path. Why would Erie be any different ?

“The Convention Center, the Tullio Center and all our entertainment venues will benefit and make Erie a more attractive place for people and companies to locate….”

With all due respect, I’m having trouble identifying anyone I know (admittedly a limited sample) who would allow proximity to an arena or convention hall to positively or negatively influence their decision on where to live even to a small extent. And excluding perhaps a concessionaire, it’s hard to see how it would make much difference to a job-creating corporation of significant size one way or another.

Now I’ve got to acknowledge your unabashed enthusiasm but to be honest you’re sounding more and more like Herb Fiss or the Kohler Brewery Gang all the time. I’m seriously not trying to impugn your integrity by lumping you in with those hucksters but rather attempting to make a rhetorical comparison.

Gambling is already here and as you now see will expand if the State of Pa. allows FULL GAMBLING. Table games will attract more affluent clientel from surrounding states and Canada. With the proper planning a well designed facility will attract well healed clients who will bring their yachts, their expensive cars and their money to Erie and will shop and visit our hotels, restaurants and boost our local economy.
The Bayfront is where the Casino belongs because it is the best location for a first class facility and it will benefit Erie but also benefit the entire Erie County because it will provide an engine that will energize the downtown/midtown areas and spread to Parade St. and other neighborhoods and help upgrade our city and its lifestyle.

The Convention Center, the Tullio Center and all our entertainment venues will benefit and make Erie a more attractive place for people and companies to locate….and for all the non-taxpayers participation, return on invesstment people that are against taxpayer funding for projects this project will not only be PRIVATELY FUNDED BUT WILL PUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THE GENERAL FUND OF PENNSYLVANIA…..ERIE OWES IT TO ITSELF AND THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA AND THE RESIDENTS OF ERIE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS MONEY………..

Legalization of casino table games eyed in PennsylvaniaText Size: A | A | A
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Respond to this Article By MARC LEVY
Associated Press Writer
June 24, 2009
HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) - Table games are on the table in the Pennsylvania Legislature.

With state lawmakers facing the biggest deficit they’ve ever seen, many who previously discounted the notion of legalizing table games this soon are now looking to poker and craps as a source of cash to help plug the state’s massive shortfall.

On Wednesday, the House Gaming Oversight Committee held a hearing to listen to an industry-paid analyst who spoke on the positive economic impact of legalizing table games at the state’s slot-machine casinos.

Committee Chairman Dante Santoni Jr., D-Berks, said he thinks a table games bill can pass the Democratic-controlled House, as long as key elements such as the license fee and tax rate are acceptable.

“I think there’s a lot of momentum behind table games,” Santoni said.

In the GOP-controlled Senate, top Republicans say they are willing to consider the idea only after a thorough discussion and perceived flaws in the state’s regulatory approach are fixed. A spokesman said Gov. Ed Rendell will make up his mind on whether to sign a bill if and when one reaches his desk.

Rendell championed slots as a way to cut property taxes when he campaigned for governor in 2002 and, two years later, Pennsylvania legalized up to 61,000 slot machines at 14 locations.

Pennsylvania has eight slot-machine casinos operating, and another - Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh - expected to open in early August. Two others are licensed in Philadelphia, but neither is slated to open this year.

Casino owners have lobbied for the legalization of table games, saying it would create valuable jobs during the recession and make their establishments more competitive with the expanding gambling industries in states along Pennsylvania’s borders.

In general, casino owners like table games because the green felt tends to lure bigger spenders who are more likely to stay longer and open their wallets wider in the restaurants, hotels and boutiques attached to the casinos.

Table games are more expensive to operate - more workers, such as dealers and pit bosses, are needed - and the profit margin is likely to be smaller, but the games are also seen as a more sophisticated form of gambling than slots.

Because of the time it would take for the establishments to get licenses, hire employees and set up the tables, table game revenue is expected to have a minor impact in the fiscal year beginning July 1.

The House Democratic whip, Bill DeWeese of Greene County, has introduced a bill legalizing table games and a similar bill is expected to be introduced in the Senate within days by Sen. Robert M. Tomlinson, R-Bucks, and Senate Minority Leader Robert J. Mellow, D-Lackawanna.

DeWeese said that, under his legislation, table games would generate more than $300 million in a full year for the state treasury - although that assumes the cards and dice are flying at all 14 slots casinos that are allowed to be licensed under the 2004 law. Only 12 are licensed so far.

Licensees would pay a $10 million fee and hand over 21 percent of their revenues to the state - that’s about halfway between New Jersey’s 8 percent rate and West Virginia’s 35 percent rate. Most of the revenue would go toward the state’s main bank account, called the general fund.

Robert Soper, the president and CEO of Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs near Wilkes-Barre, said an ideal tax rate is 9 percent - a level that would allow Pennsylvania’s casinos to compete with Atlantic City’s more lavish casinos.

Once the tax rate hits about 15 percent, a casino would have to limit the space it allows for table games because the profit margin is squeezed so thin, Soper said.

Jane Earl and the Govenor cannot get Erie to work together with the Authorities to finish the Bayfront Plan and put forth an effort to cohesively
develop the Bayfront, and do the things necessary to move Erie forward.
She and the Govenor are going to do whatever it takes to regionalize thinking and accomplish goals to enhance Erie County and the State of Pennsylvania.

Erie needs to send the message to the development community that it is serious about developing the Bayfront and the Downtown area and that the approval process is a clear path without the necessity of having to hire a certain consultant in order to obtain approval. That message is not clear and it needs to be cleaned up soon.

The Govenor has a plan and is moving forward and whether they expand the Summitt Township property or Erie, really does not make much difference but the Bayfront is the prime location that warrants first consideration, but like the IP Building fiasco, no one is going to stand around waiting to sort out Erie’s politiics.

Places like Ohio & NY and other states are agressively seeking gambling and slot approval and the Govenors, if at all possible, is seeking to go FULL STEAM AHEAD with FULL GAMING in order to gain
the advantage in the race for more funds.

Join the party or watch areas such as Summitt Township capture the opportunity. Scott Enterprises is fully capable of making things happen
and life will go on, with or without Erie’s participation, the situation is getting serious and Pennsylvania will do whatever it needs to do to protect its cash flow. Time for talk is coming to and end and the need for action is coming upon us.

Snooze and you lose!

Again……………