And remember how we used to agonize about our “motive” for doing something? Unless we did something for the “right” motive, God counted it as useless, and probably sinful to boot!

I like Lorena’s term, “Bible-God”. I think I’ll start using that term . . .

Bruce

My mom and I hit a deer once when I was a little girl, and once Dad got the bill he “confessed” his “sin” of not tithing for a couple of weeks. The amount of the repair was apparently equal to his tithe those two weeks and that was his sign of god’s judgment.

Tithing never felt optional to me as a church-goer. The example I gave in my post was a constant reminder that those who refuse to contribute will be damned… and I do believe that Ananais and Saffira weren’t contributing to a social outreach program at the Jerusalem church… is that right, Bruce? These details get foggier day by day

Skip– If Beck wants to use inflammatory language just to get a rise out of liberals, he doesn’t do much for the idea of personal responsibility. Aren’t our words and others’ time among life’s most precious resources? I am automatically wary of someone who criticizes believers who want to help the community but throws away his own opportunity to fulfill his own “great commission”.

Bruce

Thanks, bro.

Bruce

Thanks for commenting!!

Bruce

Bruce

My father-in-law graduated from Midwestern and did not know how to make a sermon outline. I had to sit down and show him how. I have met pastor after pastor who is ignorant of basic things concerning the Bible, theology, and preaching. It is no surprise that Church members are ignorant of the basics of the Christian faith.

I found your Midwest story funny, interesting, and very sad.

Bruce

The Church does not have the ability to meet the great social needs of the world.

The Church taxes every Church member by requiring tithes and offerings. If the Church believes and practices the Bible then tithing and giving offerings is REQUIRED and not voluntary at all. I find nowhere in Scripture where tithing and giving offerings was optional.

According to the Bible if someone does not tithe and give offerings they risk the judgment and chastisement of God. (pay or face God’s judgment)

So, from a Biblical standpoint the Church is no different than the government.

That said, taxes are a necessary part of a civilized, progressive society. If we want to maintain a certain standard of living then we must pay taxes. Right-wingers like Beck only dislike “some” taxes. They all want good roads, schools, etc. But when it comes to helping the poor and marginalized in our society they want to kick such people to the curb and let them fend for themselves. Not much Christianity in that kind of thinking.

Jesus was a socialist. Jesus would probably condemn the Becks of this world.

Bruce

Wouldn’t it be more of a shame, for example, when someone personally affected by that Hezbollah place becomes unable to tell the world “I was there, too” – without interrupting another thread, which they probably would be reluctant to do?

Most comments are short enough so that they can be rewritten without bothering you, and if once in a blue moon someone does tell you they spent an hour writing their little heart out, and their comment disappeared, couldn’t you quickly find it with a search phrase they supply or simply their handle?

This sounds like something you’d be finding yourself doing only once every couple of months. There’s no need to read through all that spam.

You hit the nail on the head. There is great freedom in not having to constantly worry about keeping all the rules or offending the angry, wrathful Deity.

Bruce

Often, a battered woman stays with the abuser because of the guilt trips.
“Without me you’re nothing.”
“Who feeds you, dresses you, and pays your bills, huh?”
“You’re so ugly that if you leave me, nobody else will want you.”

Not very different from what the Bible says to us “sinners,” huh?

Here’s a clue to understanding (if not agreeing with Glenn Beck’s
argument to flee from social justice agendas:

(P.S. I am a Mormon but I wouldn’t go so far as to say….”Flee from your churches”…hahahaha! I think people should stay in their churches and vote for a conservative fiscal agenda that will avoid too much debt and a heavy tax burden. A crazy Mormon named Mitt Romney got elected governor of arguably the most liberal (and therefore, the most intelligent) state of the union on that platform. He may be the next president.
I don’t even think Beck believes that people should really flee their churches…he’s putting on a dramatic performance to annoy the liberal/progressives. (Apparently it worked!).

1) Social justice programs implemented through the progressive liberal
agenda are Compulsory through taxes.

2) Tithing and offerings are voluntary charitable contributions.
By the way, the Mormon clergy are not paid for their church service. They volunteer their services.

Remember the following:

Government Run Programs = Compulsory through taxes = Pay or jail

Religious Based Charity= Voluntary

Voluntary= Freedom from governmental compulsion

That’s the difference between a progressive government agenda (TAXES) and a free religious association (DONATIONS).

Or we can say things like, “I just want to be an honest, decent person who respects others as much as possible and would like to be respected, etc. in return.”

As far as how we see Jesus, people have all kinds of descriptions of him. And like you said, how you see him changed as you experienced different things in your life. I think that kinda demonstrates how we make Jesus into who we need him to be or what we want him to represent. But our version may have only a little to do with what the Bible actually says about him.

But to hear the Bible tell it, we’re all the same and must react in the same way OR something is wrong with us. The Bible does not take into account personality types, genetic tendencies, family background, intelligence.

The “good news” never “worked” for me for many reasons. The “good news” does work for others for various reasons. It’s all a lot more complex than the Bible presents it to be.

And there’s a reaon different people focus on different sins, or some people don’t worry too much about any of it, others take it all VERY seriously, and it messes up their thinking and their lives. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE PERSON. The church does not acknowledge or say any of this,that I’ve heard.

Like in a family, parents usually realize that some of their children are more sensitive than the others and so they deal with them in a different manner. Not so in the church. And that’s why I see it more and more as a simplistic way of looking at people.

The English word derives from archery. A shot is counted “sin” if it misses the target entirely–not even striking the outermost ring. No points are awarded; you’ve just got to pick the arrow up off the ground and try again.

We can take from this image the idea that sin, in the moral sense, is missing the point. Jesus said in various places that the point of life, the reason humans exist, is to love God and love one another. Anything we do that gets in the way of that is missing the point. Is, in other words pointless, a waste of our precious time on earth. Sin isn’t something we’re supposed to feel guilty about because it makes us evil. It’s something we’re supposed to learn how to avoid because it’s a waste of our time and energy.

So the horrible irony is that harping on the various personal pet peeves which are often called “sins”–is sinful, at least in this sense. It is a waste of everyone’s time and energy, doesn’t help anyone love each other, themselves, God, or life more, and sometimes actively prevents people from loving.

They’re taught every week that everything they had already thought about themselves (inadequate, not good enough) is exactly right– and so the vicious cycle continues. Yes!!

My first attempt at formal education at a Bible College was in January, 1978 when I went to “Midwest Bible College” in Bloomington, Illinois. Unlike your fundy Baptist school, the one I attended was a fundy Pentecostal one. It was started by a independent Pentecostal preacher who had no formal education but who was a man of “vision”. It had perhaps two dozen students. Our classes were all in the evening. I figured out very quickly that I wasn’t at the most academic institution when our founder – “Brother Herman” – taught a class on the ‘divine order of the church.’ When he introduced the subject, he wrote on the blackboard: “The Devine Order”! I did not know it at the time but anyone can open up a school and attach the name “Bible College” to it and it does not have to be accredited or have any real standards! I had assumed that if you called a school a “college” that the state would require you to have a certain level of academic work. Not so.

Initially, the only instructors were Brother Herman and this old lady who had been a missionary in Haiti for 40 years and she had operated “bible colleges” there. She was boring as hell but expected us to hang on to her every word with awe and wonder. . . much like she was use to by the poor, illiterate Haitians she had taught for decades. I think she still saw herself as the Great White Hope! Well, we all respected her dedication to evangelize and teach all those demon-possessed heathens in Haiti, but we students also asked Brother Herman to get rid of her because she was so damn rude, pompous and condescending. We were not getting anything out of her monotone reading of her outlines of the books of the Bible. Most of us had already “sat under” the teaching minstries of others who did a very fundamentalist devotional, but nevertheless entertaining, presentation of the main outlines and theology of the books of the Bible. We also never had even one textbook for any of the classes I took. Our classes essentially were nothing more than listening to sermons by Brother Herman and Sister What-was-her-name?

I shared all this to say this: “Brother Bruce,” compared to Midwest Bible College, your Midwestern Baptist College was pretty sophisticated and uppity! Needless to say, “Midwest Bible College” of Bloomington, Illinois folded within a few years after I did my one semester there.

As a Taoist, the way I look at life is via the prism of balance and harmony. So, when contemplating something, the question I ask myself is: Will this thought, word or action create harmony or disharmony?