Comments on Approaching Aro

Nice to meet you

Bar-ché — Fri, 18 May 2012 15:31:33 +0000

Hi Ricardo

How nice to learn that you are from the Shangpa Kagyu. I am extremely interested and inspired by Thangtong Gyalpo. I hope to meet you face to face one day.

sweet challenge

Bar-ché — Fri, 18 May 2012 14:04:44 +0000

Addressed to an anonymous correspondent,

This is the first time I have been approached in this way – but I feel obliged to respond on this occasion. It is unusual from our perspective that a warrior should communicate anonymously. I enjoyed your YouTube clips and your explanation in your second sending – but I am not sure what you wish to prove. I am sure it can’t merely be a matter of vanity—as you state that you have practised Buddhism for 19 years—but here I think we need to talk with open viziers. I need to know who you are. I need to know who your Lama is and what lineage are you represent before we can discuss this physical challenge any further.

A purposeful for a challenge can only proceed after being discussed with your Lama - as would be expected within the Tibetan protocol.

Everybody who is interested in an exchange is welcome and we meet many martial art people in a happy fashion – but your communication does not have the tone to which we have been accustomed. If you do want to see one of our people in action or interact in the US then the Dog Brothers Gathering in the Fall is probably the appropriate public venue. Mutual benefit and underlying friendship is an established parameter for what they call ‘higher consciousness through harder contact’ – so that might be what you are seeking. At the moment this person you would meet is preparing for two days of stick fighting at a non-public ‘tribal’ Gathering this weekend – but as I said before, we do need to discuss this first openly with the Lamas involved – your and ours. Hoping to meet with a person next time we talk.

The Glove is Thrown

Sabio — Fri, 18 May 2012 11:15:32 +0000

That was fantastic -- I normally don't read people who rant on threads but your writing was brilliantly entertaining on many levels. Are you a former Aro Practitioner from the old days? I'd love to hear your take on sarcastic, insightful take on other Buddhisms, Taoisms and the like. My limited experience is that Tai Chi braggarts are the most deluded. Real challenges like this keep us real. Looking at humans at their extreme help us to understand our possibilities and the deep nature of activities -- great writing , thanx.

AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO THE WHITE SANGHA

Anonymous — Fri, 18 May 2012 07:35:46 +0000

AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO THE WHITE SANGHA
So let’s talk business. I saw in the internet that you will host a martial art retreat in Finland in July. I am ready to come there and to take on every fighter you will appoint at this occasion. I am a buddhist practicioner for nineteen years now and I work full time as a senior engineer – so I am not a professional fighter. In return, I also expect you to appoint a dedicated Buddhist of your lineage to represent you and not to send an MMA-fighter who has added a pinch of Buddhist meditation to his background. As I see it as inappropriate to challenge Lama Barche Dorje as the Tertön himself, I will take on every one of his students or disciples he will appoint.
I would propose UFC rules and 3 rounds (each round three minutes with two minutes break – because this is about warrior spirit and not about perfect physical condition). If you have no fighter in my weight class I will wear shin protectors and your representative can wear a head headgear. I am, in return, always willing to face a physically stronger opponent. If your representative has a background in grappling, he can wear a Gi (like a Judo jacket), if he likes so. Just tell me eight week in advance (so we both have equal possiblity for preparation) and I am always at your disposal. You see – no more excuses, no more space for self-justification…
Nobody should ever be bullied to go into the octagon, this would simply be wrong. So if you refuse my challenge, I will never say anything bad about the white sangha. I will, however, reserve the right to hysterically giggle like a school girl whenever you write something about Buddhist vampires, wrathful behaviour etc. etc. I will also refer to the Ngak’phang sangha as the white chicken in private conversation ….. although I will never doubt the validity of your tradition, as I know that the blessing of your mantra is beyond compare even in the world of Vajrayana. I do, however, remember a time where the Aro Lamas would compete at car races and after uttering such a challenge to the white sangha, even the little girls would have stood up, giving me a stare that had made my blood freeze…. Tell me, are these times gone? Have the Ngakpas lost their true thirst for the blood of real life and become a bunch of nerdy academics?
I admit that it is wrong to challenge someone without putting something at stake. If you do demonstrate true warrior spirit in the ring, I will openly appologise and always recognize that the white sangha still has the same spiritual power as in the past (regardless of who will be declared the winner). If you manage to use this event as a vehicle of tantric transmission, I will prostrate to you and openly acknowledge that the practicioners in white skirts are what they claim to be – the torch of true practice and the ultimate remedy in this time of degenerated teachings and ignorant darkness. I will never question you again and always protect your lineage of terma by all means.
So I am waiting for your answer. You better start practicing how to tap out….. To give you a taste of what is waiting for you, follow the link…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zePwQjvTbkc&feature=related

UFC as a tantric practice

Anonymous — Fri, 18 May 2012 07:34:47 +0000

ULTIMATE FIGHTING AS A TANTRIC PRACTICE
As a practicioner both of mixed martial arts and of Nyingma and Kagyu Buddhism I would like to add some points to this conversation. Let me make clear that I have no authority whatsoever (neither formal nor informal) to teach Buddhism, so I am just uttering some ideas. I do, however, have authority to talk about and apply martial arts.
Someone new to the tradition of martial arts or ultimate fighting might wrongly assume that the essence of bloodsport is beating someone, throwing him down or joking him out. Everyone with a little bit of practical experience knows exactly that this is totally and absolutely wrong. I could teach everyone with a background in sports how to destroy an opponent in a couple of months. The real martial art is about transforming the most ferocious attacks of your opponent. If you want a practical demonstration of what I am talking about, take a look at the last emperor, still best pound-to-pound fighter on our planet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPAnsAipqbk If the whole clip is too long for you, just go 05:02 – that’s what makes a true warrior, thats how a true warrior deals with the challenges of life. For me that’s informal transmission. Besides, the last emperor makes use of the gap like a true Shambhala warrior…
Bloodsport is about learning how to deal with the most terrifying blows without pitying yourself, without chicking out and without blaming others. It is, however, also not about a pseydoreligios-masochistic attitude which makes you happy if life doesn’t treat you well, it is about the attitude towards your most ferocious experience in life and your worst daemons. Tantra teaches us that our worst emotions can be transformed, even more, that we have to embrace them as the path. As far as I know, ngakmas and ngakpas never cut their hair because they have vowed never to cut off from their own experience. I do not say at all that bloodsport is mentally healty, beautiful or compassionate. Contrary, it is about our deepest demons, about our will to destroy and to be merciless. If we, however, are not willing to face these emotions, then we are seedy secret sutrists and the transformation of negative emotions becomes an intellectual concept. (From my point of view, it is perfectly fine to go the path of renounciation, but don’t claim to be a master of transformation while you do so). When there were the first ultimate fighting championships in Germany, a large group of so-called philosopers and humanists gathered and wanted to have it banned. A true tantrika doesn’t ban destructive emotions (although, I definitely agree, the manifestations often have to be banned ), a tantrika doesn’t cut off from his desire to kill and hurt, nor does he put it into action – she or he transforms and liberates these demonic forces. Machig Lapdrön advised her students to practice in terrific places – the UFC octagon might be a perfect modern channelground. I guarantee you, you will meet your demons there and you will have to face them, there is no hiding and no running away. http://www.fightinginsider.com/2011/01/01/why-ufc-ring-is-called-the-oct... Unless you are a highly advanced practicioner, you will find that you have far more fear and hate inside yourself than you have ever imagined. (if I turn out to be wrong, I will give you your money back).
The venerable Ato Rinpoche once told me a story about his youth. When he was a young monk, he always thought he had understood emptiness. Then the Chinese invaded Tibet, burnt down his monastery and murdered many of his friends and family members. Ato Rinpoche said that at this point he found out that he knew nothing about emptiness…. It might be similar with ultimate fighting. It might be easy to sit in a cosy gompa with fellow middle-class people called practicioners, sipping coffee, counting the beads of your tenga and claiming to practice transformation. If a heavyweight fighter throws you to the ground and gives you a thrashing of a lifetime, try to transform this, and try to develop whole-hearted compassion for him. It is easy to pretend that you have compassion for all sentient beings, but it is really challenging to feel even a little bit of compassion for someone who has just broken your nose….. or maybe I am just a lousy practitioner, or maybe it is a combination of both factors…. I leave this up to your wise judgement.
One of the characteristics of ultimate fighting is that sooner or later you gonna lose, you will be tackled and defeated. Concerning this aspect, MMA is like real life – nobody goes undefeated forever.
As the venerable Trungpa Rinpoche stated, Tantra is highly dangerous and requires a qualified teacher. Just beating each other up makes us no better than members of a street gang. Even worse, being in contact with the priceless Buddhist teachings we have had every opportunity to know better and turnig a Gompa into a hotbed for destructive behaviour would be a serious pitfall. So I recommend to practice serious bloodsport only with the approval of a qualified Lama, although basic martial arts like Aikido can benefit both your physical and mental health.
Additionally, I know that a lot could be said about Dzogchen Longde and how its specific Nyams refer to Tantric practice. I am definitely not the right person to talk about this, so I will remain silent. I would, however, recommend that you approach a qualified Lama if you have intentions to use martial arts as a Buddhist practice.
In the next post you will read my challenge to the practitioners of this terma. I want to see – in practical terms – if the white sangha only likes to tell fairy tales about wrathful lamas or if they can still stand up to a real challenge.

Validity of terma

Anonymous — Thu, 17 May 2012 11:11:04 +0000

In other sources the Aro gTer community (refer to approchingaro) states that one can only validate a terma for oneself - unless one is an omniscient Buddha. I am a practicioner both of Nyingma Buddhism and MMA. Would some representative of the Terma give me the honour to validate this Gong Ter? Martial Arts is not about intellectual debate - only someone spoilt by years and decades of overintellectual Buddhist practice could think so. I am expecting your representative in the Octagon. If my weightclass matters to you, I will fight with 82kg. Can't wait to see how you will chick out....

It looks like it was locked

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:26:25 +0000

It looks like it was locked more because it the thread sputtered into nonsense for two days. If you have something more to add, I think you would not have a problem getting it unlocked again.

Dhamma Wheel

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:56:22 +0000

I think your reading of the situation is correct.
Namdrol was very much the prime mover and shaker on E Sangha. He is, as you say, just another guest on Dharma Wheel.
Given a more balanced overview of things than was possible on E Sangha for the reasons you imply, David Snyder is likely to have no reason to favor one Dzogchen group ( as he would see it ) over another. Although as I said he might be wary of the politics...

Dharma Wheel

David Chapman — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:52:50 +0000

Hello Anonymous,

Thank you very much for this!

For anyone lacking context: Dharma Wheel is a Buddhist forum. There was some discussion of the Aro Ter there a few months ago, which referenced this page about karma and Dzogchen.

The moderators of the Dzogchen subforum of Dharma Wheel include some of the same people who used to run the e-Sangha Buddhist forum. Some of them were, and apparently still are, hostile to Aro, for reasons that remain mainly unclear.

Discussion on Dharma Wheel was twice cut off by moderators. In both cases, my impression was that this was to prevent me from continuing to respond factually and neutrally to inflammatory misinformation. That certainly was the explicit policy on e-Sangha at one time.

My impression was that the Dharma Wheel moderators felt they had to be somewhat less one-sided than they had been on e-Sangha, probably because they had full control of that forum, but are essentially guests of the owner on Dharma Wheel.

I would have liked to post a reply to the final round of hostile, factually incorrect comments in the Dharma Wheel thread. However, my feeling was that the moderators knew they were on very thin ice, and that another round of Aro-bashing was unlikely to occur there.

If it does erupt again, I will appeal for fairness up the chain of moderators and eventually to David Snyder. Thank you very much indeed for the suggestion.

David

Dharma Wheel

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:58:55 +0000

"The ArogTer Some Answers And Questions" In The Dzogchen subforum.