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selvan</category><category>porus</category><category>ptolemy</category><category>purananooru</category><category>pygmies</category><category>sage</category><category>sankara</category><category>saravanabhava</category><category>satyaputra</category><category>shalivahana</category><category>shudra</category><category>simukha</category><category>sindhu</category><category>soppara</category><category>sulbh sutra</category><category>syria</category><category>tai chi</category><category>thambapani</category><category>valentine</category><title>Controversies in History</title><description>A Lie wellstruct is as Good as Truth</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/</link><managingEditor>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</managingEditor><generator>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>105</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>25</openSearch:itemsPerPage><language>en-us</language><itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit><itunes:subtitle>A Lie wellstruct is as Good as Truth</itunes:subtitle><itunes:category text="Education"/><itunes:owner><itunes:email>noreply@blogger.com</itunes:email></itunes:owner><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-7796592187233561006</guid><pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2025 10:16:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2020-05-27T10:27:56.342+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">controversy</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Language</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Literature</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Myth</category><title/><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Myth Versus RealityTopics&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-yoga.html"&gt;Yoga Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-is-dakshinapatha.html"&gt;Dhakshinapatha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Vedic / Indus Valley Age&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-rig-veda.html"&gt;Date of Rig Veda&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/myth-of-invasion-rig-veda-aryans.html"&gt;Invasion of Rig Veda Aryans&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/saraswathi-river-myth-and-reality.html"&gt;Sarasvathi River&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/myth-of-ancient-nuclear-war.html"&gt;Ancient Atomic War&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/04/myth-of-aryan-invasion-of-india.html"&gt;Aryan Invasion Theory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Historic Age&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthenes Meet Chandragupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Religion /Faith /Spirituality&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-buddha-image.html"&gt;Buddha Image&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2014/03/is-gautama-buddha-avatar-of-vishnu.html" target="_blank"&gt;Is Gautama Buddha Avatar of Vishnu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2014/06/christian-history-myth-and-reality.html"&gt;Christian History Myths and Reality&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/myth-of-saint-thomas-india-visit.html"&gt;Saint Thomas India Visit&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/02/valentines-day-origin.html"&gt;Valentines's  Day - Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-shankara.html"&gt;Date of Shankara&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/06/myths-of-kanchi-kamakoti-peetam.html"&gt;Kanchi Mutt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2013/10/date-of-devaram-thevaram-trio.html"&gt;Date of Devaram Trio&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2015/01/dravida-sishu-sankara-Sambandhar.html"&gt;Dravida Sishu Between shankara and Sambandhar&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/07/is-tirupati-balaji-temple-buddist.html"&gt;Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddhist Temple&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/religiously-tamil-religious-movement-in.html"&gt;Divine Tamil&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/skanda-muruga-karthikeya-shanmuga.html"&gt;Skanda-Muruga-Karthikeya-Shanmuga origin&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-murugan-tamil-god.html"&gt;Lord Murugan&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/controversy-regarding-antiquity-of.html"&gt;Srisailam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/11/myths-of-urdu.html"&gt;Urdu Myths&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/myth-of-cheraman-mosque.html"&gt;Cheraman Mosque&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-and-time-controversies-of.html"&gt;Zarathustra Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Time / Era / Age&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2015/05/old-saka-era-varahmihira-s-sree-harsha.html"&gt;Old Saka Era - Varahamihira Sree Harsha Era&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2015/05/origin-of-vikrama-samvat-great.html"&gt;Origin of Vikram Samvat : Great Vikramaditya &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-kanishka-era.html"&gt;Kanishka Era&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Script / Lipi&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/was-ancient-india-literate-super-human.html"&gt;Was Ancient India Literate&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/origin-of-brahmi-script.html"&gt;Brahmi Script Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/myths-of-indus-script.html"&gt;Indus Script Myths&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/01/tamil-brahmi-myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil.html"&gt;Tamil Brahmi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/myths-of-pallava-granta-script.html"&gt;Pallava Granta Script&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Sanskrit / Prakrit / Pali&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html"&gt;Date of Kalidasa - Gupta Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/04/dating-vatsyayanas-kamasutra.html"&gt;Date of Vatsyayana Kamasutra &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/home-of-pali.html"&gt;Home of Pali&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-mother-sanskrit-theory.html"&gt;Mother Sanskrit Theory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-maharastri-prakrit.html"&gt;Maharastri Prakrit&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/04/date-of-sriharsa.html"&gt;Date of Sriharsa&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Tribes / People&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/10/origin-of-yavanas-greek-myth.html"&gt;Who are Yavanas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/who-are-ancient-kambojas-and-their-land.html"&gt;Who are Kambojas&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/myth-of-huns-invasion-of-india.html"&gt;Who are White Huns&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/11/myths-of-rajput-origin.html"&gt;Rajput Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/who-are-aryans-let-us-see-from.html"&gt;Who are Aryans&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/origin-of-name-afghan.html"&gt;Origin of Name Afghan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #009900; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Kannada / Telugu / Tulu&lt;/span&gt; &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-satavahana-andhra-myth.html"&gt;Satavahana Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/origin-of-ikshvaku-dynasty.html"&gt;Ikshvaku Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2014/03/reign-of-salankayana.html#.UxqoIs5qO4q" target="_blank"&gt;Reign of Salankayana&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/reign-of-vishnukundin.html"&gt;Reign of VishnuKundin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-pallavas.html"&gt;Pallava Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-rastrakuta.html"&gt;Rastrakuta origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/origin-of-vijayanagar-rulers.html"&gt;Vijayanagara Empire origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/origin-of-seuna-dynasty.html"&gt;Seuna Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/nandas-of-nandavar-origin.html"&gt;Nandas of Nandavar origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/04/origin-of-world-tulu.html"&gt;Tulu Name Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/04/origin-of-word-telugu.html"&gt;Telugu name Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/04/origin-of-badaga.html"&gt;Badaga Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Konkani / Marathi / Saurastrian&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myths-of-konkani-language.html"&gt;Konkani Language&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/konkani-literature-myths.html"&gt;Konkani Literature&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/origin-of-marathi.html"&gt;Marathi origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/origin-of-chatrapati-shivaji.html"&gt;Shivaji Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/case-of-sourashtrians.html"&gt;Saurastrian Migration&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Tamil / Malayalam&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/myth-of-independent-tamil-culture.html"&gt;Independent Tamil Culture&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/05/myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil-language.html"&gt;Tholkappiam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/06/date-of-purananooru.html"&gt;Dating Purananooru&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/controversies-of-kural-by-valluvar.html"&gt;Kural Controversies&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-tamil-sangams.html"&gt;Tamil Sangam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/05/great-myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil.html"&gt;Cilapathikaram&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/11/who-is-avvaiyar-sangam-myth.html"&gt;Who is Auvaiyar - Sangam Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/08/date-of-kambar-and-kambaramayanam.html"&gt;Date of Kambar and Kambaramayanam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-kalabhras-invasion-and-rule.html"&gt;Kalabhras Interruption&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/kumarikandam-lemuria-tamil-myth.html"&gt;Kumari Kandam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/05/myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil-kallanani-by.html"&gt;Kallanai by Karikalan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/date-of-karikal-chola.html"&gt;Date of Karikala&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/11/who-are-sangam-cheras.html"&gt;Sangam Cheras&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-cholas-tamil-myth.html"&gt;Chola Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/02/ancient-pandya-kingdom-location.html"&gt;Early Pandya Kingdom - Location&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil-languge.html"&gt;Adhiyaman&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Odia / Bangla / South Kosala (Chattishgarh)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-gangas.html"&gt;Ganga Dynasty (Kalinga) origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/07/who-is-trivara-deva-panduvamsis-reign.html"&gt;Who is Trivara deva? : Reign of Panduvamsis &lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2018/01/sharabhapuriya-panduvamshi-dynasties.html" target="_blank"&gt;Sharabhapuriya, Panduvamshi Dynasties and their Overlords &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-is-kalinganagara.html"&gt;Kalinganagara&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-tamil-antiquity-hathigumpha.html"&gt;Hathigumpha Inscription-Tamil Federation&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Sinhala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/where-did-prince-vijaya-land.html"&gt;Prince Vijaya Landing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/lanka-prince-sree-vijaya-legends.html"&gt;Prince Vijaya Ancestary&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Indo-Europeon&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/myths-of-india-by-indologists.html"&gt;India by Indologists&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-indo-europeans.html"&gt;Indo-Europeans Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/myth-of-british-creating-india.html"&gt;British creating India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/04/origin-of-hungarians.html"&gt;Hungarian Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Greek / Roman / Egypt &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/04/myth-of-alexander-victory-in-india.html"&gt;Alexander Invasion of India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/date-of-homer.html"&gt;Date of Homer&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/trojan-war-myth-or-reality.html"&gt;Trojan War &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/who-is-diodotus-greek-myth.html"&gt;Who is Diodotus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/12/origin-of-democracy-and-republicanism.html"&gt;Origin of Democracy and Republic -Greek Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/02/dating-ancient-greek-civilization.html"&gt;Dating Ancient Greek Civilization&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/myth-of-pythogores-theorem.html"&gt;Pythagoras theorem&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/05/black-athena-debate.html"&gt;Black Athena&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div align="center"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;Others&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/myth-of-sumerian-language-legacy.html"&gt;Sumerian Legacy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/myth-of-tutsi-invasion-theory.html"&gt;Tutsi Invasion Theory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/myth-of-chinese-martial-arts-origin.html"&gt;Chinese Martial Arts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/09/origin-of-idly.html"&gt;Origin of Idly&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Unknown)</author><thr:total>1</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-1838764961794316019</guid><pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2018 04:52:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2018-01-11T10:26:54.307+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Bhattaraka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Eran</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kosala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mekala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Panduvamsis</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">panduvanshi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sarabhapuriyas. Gauda</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sharabhapuriya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Shripura</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Trivara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vakataka</category><title>Sharabhapuriya, Panduvamshi Dynasties and their Overlords</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;When we were analysing, Who is trivaradeva?, We came across Sharabhapurias, In this post, We are looking at Sharabhapuriyas and Panduvamsis to analyse their dates and&amp;nbsp;genealogy. We are looking whether they are feudatories of Guptas and Vakatakas. Let us first look who they are &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sharabhapuriyas&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Historians call the family Sharabhapuriyas, because the majority of the dynasty’s inscription were issued from the Sharabhapura.&amp;nbsp;D. C. Sircar theorised that the dynasty was known as Amararyakula.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Capital &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Most of the dynasty's grants have been found in and around Malhar and Raipur, in Dakshin Kosala. These inscriptions were issued from Shrabhapura and Shripura. The identification of Sharabhapura is not certain, while Shripura &amp;nbsp;has been identified with modern Sirpur. Some scholars have identified Sharabhapura with places in present-day Andhra Pradesh and Odisha, but these places are located far away from the find spots of the inscriptions; it is more likely that Sharabhapura was located in or around the present-day Raipur district. KD Bajpai and SK Pandey identified Sharabhapura with Malhar, but A. M. Shastri points out that the excavations at Malhar reveal that the establishment of the town can be dated to c. 1000 BCE or earlier. Therefore, it cannot be identified as a city established by Sharabha who ruled nearly 1500 years later. Moreover, there is no evidence that Malhar was called Sharabhapura: its earliest known name is Mallala or Mallala-pattana. Hira Lal once theorised that the Sharabhapura was another name for Shripura, but this theory is now discredited.&amp;nbsp;Sharabhapura appears to have been the original capital of the dynasty. A. M. Shastri theorises that Sudevaraja established Shripura and made the town his second capital. his successor Pravararaja moved the kingdom’s capital to Shripura.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ins class="adsbygoogle" data-ad-client="ca-pub-1289975368952449" data-ad-format="fluid" data-ad-layout="in-article" data-ad-slot="6494589968" style="display: block; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;/ins&gt;&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Dynasty &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sharabha &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Narendra &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Prasanna &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Jayaraja &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Manamatra or Durgaraja &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sudevaraja &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Pravararaja. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sharabha&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sharabha is the earliest known king. He is known from two inscriptions of his son Narendra. The name suggests that he established the city of Sharabhapura (and probably the dynasty).&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Narendra &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Maharaja Narendra, the son of Sharabha, issued the earliest extant grant of the dynasty. Three grants made by him have been found.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Prasanna&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Prasannamatra is the next, No inscriptions or grants by him are known. However we find a&amp;nbsp;number &amp;nbsp;of coins with him name and also&amp;nbsp;known from the seals of his son Jayaraja and grandson Sudevaraja. &amp;nbsp;His relationship with Narendra is not certain: he may have been Narendra's son or his descendant. Prasanna had two sons: Jayaraja and Manamatra (the successor of Jayaraja).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Coin_of_Prasannamatra_of_the_Sarabhapuriyas_in_Kosala_Circa_525-550.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" data-original-height="377" data-original-width="800" height="150" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Coin_of_Prasannamatra_of_the_Sarabhapuriyas_in_Kosala_Circa_525-550.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Jayaraja&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Jayaraja was a son of Prasnna.He was the first ruler of the dynasty to add the prefix Mahat to his name, a practice followed not only by his descendants but also by the kings of the later dynasties such as the Panduvanshis and the Somavanshis.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Manamatra alias Durgaraja&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Manamatra was another son of Prasanna. He had two sons: Sudevaraja and Pravararaja&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sudevaraja&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sudevaraja was a son of Manamatra. He seems to have established Shripura, where the earliest inscriptions were issued during his reign.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Pravararaja&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Pravararaja was another son of Manamatra.He appears to have moved the kingdom’s capital from Sharabhapura to Shripura.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Vyaghraraja&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;No successors of Pravararaja are known with certainty. An inscription of one Vyaghraraja has been discovered at Malhar. This inscription was issued from a town called Prasanna-pura, and describes Vyaghraraja as the son of Pravara-bhattaraka. D. C. Sircar and some others theorised that Vyaghraraja was a Sharabhapuriya king. Prasannapura may have been named after his ancestor Prasanna. The inscription also mentions one Jaya-bhattaraka, who has been identified with Jayaraja. Ajaya Mitra Shastri has contested this theory on several grounds. Vyaghraraja's inscription features 'nail-headed' characters unlike the box-headed characters of the Sharabhapuriya inscriptions. Its seal, its textual style and its grant order are also different from those of the Sharabhapuriya inscriptions.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;The Sharabhapuriyas were succeeded by the Panduvanshi (Pāṇduvaṃśī) dynasty.The Panduvanshi inscriptions follow the three-copper-plates style of the Sharabhapuriyas&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Panduvamsis &amp;nbsp;of Mekala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Panduvamsis of Mekala&amp;nbsp;preceded Sharabhapuriyas.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Dynasty&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Jayabala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Vatsaraja&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Nagabala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Bharatabala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Surabala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Panduvamsis of South Kosala&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Panduvamsis of South Kosala succeeded Sharabhapuriyas. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Dynasty&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Udyana&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Indrabala (Sons Bhavadeva, Ishanadeva, Nanna I)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Nanna I(Sons Trivaradeva, Chandragupta)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Trivaradeva&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Nanna II&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Chandragupta&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Harshagupta (Sons Shivagupta, Ranakesarin)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Shivagupta&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sivanandin&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/7th_century_Lakshmana_Hindu_temple%2C_Sirpur_Chhattisgarh_India_1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" data-original-height="600" data-original-width="800" height="300" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/7th_century_Lakshmana_Hindu_temple%2C_Sirpur_Chhattisgarh_India_1.jpg" width="400" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Udayana was the first king of this dynasty. He was succeeded by Indrabala. Nanna I succeeded him and he in turn was succeeded by Mahasiva Tivaradeva. He was the most successful king of this dynasty. He extended his kingdom to Utkala, Kosala and other nearby states. He was succeeded by his son Mahanannaraja or Nanna II. His uncle, Chandragupta (of Later Guptas), succeeded him. His son, Harshagupta, was married to Vasata, the daughter of Maukhari king Suryavarman of Magadha. Harshagupta son from Vasata, Mahasivagupta alias Balarjuna, ascended the throne after Harshagupta. Mahasivagupta was a powerful king and enjoyed a very long rule and he was&amp;nbsp;followed by Sivanandin.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;points of Discussion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Amarajakula&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;D. C. Sircar theorised that the dynasty was known as Amararyakula, based on inscription of Vyaghraraja. However, A. M. Shastri has opposed this theory, arguing that Vyaghraraja was not associated with the Sharabhapuriya dynasty.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Panduvanshi replace Sharabhapuriyas &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;In Dhamatari and Kauvatal grants, Sudevaraja mentions certain Indrabala raja as occupying the office of Sarvadhikaradhikrata or Chief Minister. Can Indrabalaraja be the same as Indrabala of Panduvamsis. This is looks very tempting as the Panduvamsis succeeded Sarbhapuriyas and they could have been employed by them and later they could have succeeded. However this theory falls flat as the Kharod inscription mentions Indrabala as reigning monarch. He also founded a city of Indrapura. However we can say that he was subordinate and later ruled as independent ruler.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Gupta and Mahendra&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;The Allahabad pillar inscription of the Gupta king Samudragupta states that he defeated one Mahendra, who was the ruler of Kosala. One theory identifies this Mahendra as a Sharabhapuriya ruler. However, there is no evidence in support of this theory.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Eran Inscription&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;A 510 CE Bhanugupta Eran inscription mentions one Sharabharaja as the maternal grandfather of one Goparaja, who died in a battle. Based on the identification of this Sharabharaja with the Sharabhapuriya king Sharabha, we can fix date of the king.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzimaycUkAA09AW.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" data-original-height="534" data-original-width="800" height="213" src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzimaycUkAA09AW.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Gupta Overlords&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;The Kurud inscription of&amp;nbsp; Narendra records the renewal of a grant that was originally made by a Parama-bhattaraka ("Supreme Overlord") to a Brahmin. The original grant was recorded on palm leaves, which were destroyed in a house fire. A. M. Shastri identifies the Parama-bhattaraka with a Gupta emperor (the Gupta capital Pataliputra was located on the banks of the Ganga river). He theorises that Narendra's Sharabha began his career as a Gupta vassal.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;But we have no evidence of Gupta monarchs in the inscription or elsewhere during that time. We do not know who this&amp;nbsp;paramo-bhattaraka is.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Vakataka overlords&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;In Bamhani grant, Surabala makes reference to Narendra, B.Ch.Chhabhra says that Narendra&amp;nbsp;refers to Narendrasena of Vakataka dynasty. Narendrasena father refers to his extensive territories as Kosala, Mekala and Malava. So this is supposed to acknowledge the overlordship of Vakatakas.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Suryagosha Dynasty&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Small dynasty established by surya or Suryaghosha, ruled Chattishgarh in 350 AD to 375 AD form Capital Sripura. He was followed by five rulers, one of the rulers Bhimasena II acknowledged suzerainty of Guptas. Bhimasena II overthrown by Jayaraja of Sharbhapura dynasty&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Analysis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Amarajakula&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;D. C. Sircar theorised that the dynasty was known as Amararyakula, based on the Malhar inscription of a ruler called Vyaghraraja. However, A. M. Shastri has opposed this theory, arguing that Vyaghraraja was not associated with the Sharabhapuriya dynasty.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;There is a mention of Amrarayakula in Mallar and Bamhani Plates of&amp;nbsp;Surabala of Panduvamsis from which princess Lokaprakasa was born. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Lokaprakasa,&lt;/span&gt;  queen of Bharatbala.&lt;/span&gt; is from south&amp;nbsp;Kosala and we cannot put her in other dynasty during this period. So we can say Sharabhapuriyas are from Amararajakula or Amararayakula, both means same.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Bamhani and Mallar plates says  Lokaprakasa was from Amaraja Kula. When we consider the Vyaghyaraja  plates, it is clear that Sharabhapurias belong to Amararayakula.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Parama Bhattaraka and Gupta Overlords &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;In Sanskrit, there are two related words "Bhata" and "Bhatta" generally meaning a soldier and a scholar respectively. Occasionally they are used interchangeably. A "Bhattara" or a "Bhattaraka" is the chief of them. Thus a "Bhattaraka" is either a regional ruler (mandalika) or a regional chief of an order of monks (i.e. an Acharya). A&amp;nbsp;“ parama- Bhattaraka" is then either a overlord sovereign, or the Chief of all Acharyas. &amp;nbsp;The Maitraka dynasty of Valabhi was founded by “Bhatarka, a General.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Dikshit &amp;nbsp;said that the Bhattarka mentioned here in Kurud inscription is Father of Narendra that is Sharabha. But Sircar point out that Father is missing in the inscription. &amp;nbsp;Later ruler from the same dynasty Jayaraja takes the title Jaya bhattaraka, so we do doubts supporting this.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Another scholar &amp;nbsp;has pointed out that Parama Bhattarka with Maharajadhiraja has been to refer to Guptas. And the references to Bathing in Ganga should mean it refers to Guptas of Pataliputra. &amp;nbsp;One has to see here that the Ruler omits name of the Parama Bhattarka- pada. Narendra does not include Gupta Era and does not take feudatory title like paramo bhattaraka padanudhayata Here.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Vyaghraraja inscription issued describes Vyaghraraja as the son of Pravara-bhattaraka. The inscription also mentions one Jaya-bhattaraka, who has been identified with Jayaraja. So can we say Bhattarka refers to some ancestor of Narendra.&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;There is panduvamsis of Mekala also took titles Parama Maheswara, Parama Brahmanya and Parama guru devatadhidaivatavishesha. Panduvanshi of&amp;nbsp;Kosala also refer themselves with&amp;nbsp;parama Bhattaraka titles. We can say parama bhattaraka is title refers to one of Mekala Panduvamsis.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;As far as Gupta Overlords are concerned there seems to be none, just the&amp;nbsp;Indologists invention.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Surabala and vakataka Overlords&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;The Bamhani inscription says Narendra in the end of sentence. If Vakataka Narendrasena was the overlord, then there is no way they can addressed like that. On careful examination we see that the Narendra coming at the end of stanza refers to Surabala himself as king. As far as Vakataka overlords we see none.&amp;nbsp;All the inscriptions are in nail-headed characters not Box Headed characters of Vakataka. So We can safely say there is no vakataka in Mekala at that time.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6096e2b731bf39ce303a5df8dd81676e-c" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" data-original-height="371" data-original-width="596" height="199" src="https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6096e2b731bf39ce303a5df8dd81676e-c" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Suryagosha Dynasty&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;We cannot find any evidence around South Kosala for Surya or Bhimasena during Sharabhapuriya dynasty, We have no evidence of any overthrew of this dynasty. This dynasty has to be dated with Guptas and they belong to different time.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Constructing&amp;nbsp;Genealogy&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;We have&amp;nbsp;seen that there is not much dispute on the order of kings, but there is a confusion on period of kings.&amp;nbsp;Let us see.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Present Chronology &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;A. M. Shastri estimates the reigns of the Sharabhapuriya rulers as follows: based on Sharabha's identification with the Sharabharaja mentioned in the 510 CE Eran inscription, he assigns Sharabha's reign to 475–500 CE (assuming a 25-year reign). Similarly, he assigns 25 years to the next two kings. Since Jayaraja's latest inscription is dated to 9th regnal year, Shastri assumes a 10-year reign for Jayaraja, and some subsequent kings.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Sharabha (Śarabha), c. 475–500 CE (25 years)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Narendra, c. 500–525 CE (25 years Atleast, 27 years)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Prasanna (Prasanamatra), c. 525–550 CE (25 years) (Sons Jayaraja, Manamatra)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Jayarāja, c. 550–560 CE (at least 10 years, may be 15 years)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Manamatra alias Durgarāja, c. 570–580 CE (at least 10 Years)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Sudevarāja, c. 570–580 CE (10 years atleast, May be 15 years)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;* Pravarāja, c. 580–590 CE (3 years &amp;nbsp;to 10 Years)(Founder of Sripura)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Alternative dates have been proposed by other historians. For example, D. C. Sircar estimated Sharabha's reign as 465–480 CE, while V. V. Mirashi estimated it as 460–480 CE&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Dates&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;We have no reference to Guptas or Vakatakas in the Grant, so we have to use internal chronology to date Sharabhapuriyas and Panduvamsis&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Indrabala of Panduvamshi &amp;nbsp;ended Paravaraja rule. If we take the Trivaradeva rule, which is 550AD, we&amp;nbsp;can arrive ending of&amp;nbsp; Sharabhrapuria&amp;nbsp;rule in the capital Sharbhapura around 530 AD.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Eran Inscription (510AD) of Bhanugupta contemporary Goparaja says his maternal grandfather was Sharbharaja, If we take the sharbharaja as founder of the dynasty. Which will put him at 460 AD. Bhanugupta is mentioned as Governor, and we do not have any info on Guptas here. The inscription talks about battle with Maitrakas in which Bhanugupta died and his wife followed him to the&amp;nbsp;funeral&amp;nbsp;pyre. We do not know sarbharaja mentioned here is Sharabha of Sharbhapuria, but it is assumed as such and dating is&amp;nbsp;worked to 460 AD, considering that his son Narendra ruled for 25 years. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Points of View &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;ol start="1"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sharabharaja mentioned in the inscription is meant to Sharabharaja and Contemporary king of Goparaja has to be taken as Prasannamatra, One of the reason can be taken as Eran has the best mint for gold coins in India. Eran mint gold coin influence can be seen in prasannamatra gold coins.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Lokaprakasa &amp;nbsp;is daughter of Sharabharaja.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Parama Bhattaraka Pada refers to Panduvamsis of Mekala. And Narendra when making this inscription is feudatory of Panduvamsis of Mekala. &amp;nbsp;After Surabala panduvamsis of Mekala power weakened and we have Sharabhapuriyas under Narendra &amp;nbsp;taking over as the overlords of &amp;nbsp;Panduvamsis of Mekala.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Jayaraja was succeeded by manamatra, who had very short tenure followed by his two sons sudevaraja and parvaraja. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;After parvaraja death and resulting confusion, Indrabala the chiefminister from Panduvamsis clan has taken over Sharabhapura. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;A last ditch effort seems to be from Vyagyaraja &amp;nbsp;son of Parvaraja In sripur. &amp;nbsp;This taking over took place around 530-535 AD, and panduvamsis of Kosala have &amp;nbsp;risen. &amp;nbsp;Inscription seems to use a borrowed south Indian scribe and who seems to have no much idea of official grants of Sharabhapuriyas.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Geneology can be from Eran Inscription. Sharabharaja (440 - 460AD), Narendra (460-485AD), Prasannamatra (485 to 510Ad), Jayaraja (510 - 520AD), &amp;nbsp;Manamatra (Unknown), Sudevaraja (520 - 530AD), Parvaraja (530-534AD).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Geneology years &amp;nbsp;of Mekala Panduvamshis cannot be constructed because of paucity of records.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;ins class="adsbygoogle" data-ad-client="ca-pub-1289975368952449" data-ad-format="fluid" data-ad-layout="in-article" data-ad-slot="6494589968" style="display: block; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;/ins&gt;&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Conclusion &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;We can give chronology of Sharabhapuriyas as &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sharabharaja (440-480AD) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Narendra (460-485AD) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Prasannamatra (485-510AD) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Jayaraja (510-520AD) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Sudevaraja(520-530AD) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Pravaraja(530-534AD) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Guptas and Vakatakas are not overlords of Sharabhapuriyas or Panduvamsis, they belonged to different era.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Inscriptions of the Śarabhapurīyas, Pāṇḍuvaṁśins, and Somavaṁśins: Introduction By Ajay Mitra Shastri&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharabhapuriya_dynasty" target="_blank"&gt;Wiki&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
Historical Geography of Madhya Pradesh from Early Records by Pranab Kumar Bhattacharyya&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;br /&gt;
Orissan history, culture, and archaeology by Sadasiba Pradhan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://indepigr.narod.ru/orissa/index.htm" target="_blank"&gt;Orissa-Andhra inscriptions&amp;nbsp; &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Image Resources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a class="no-underscore grey-text-link" href="https://wikivisually.com/"&gt;&lt;span class="site-title"&gt; WikiVisually &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span class="site-title"&gt;&lt;a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link js-nav" data-user-id="80004572" href="https://twitter.com/anshikashukla_"&gt;&lt;span class="FullNameGroup"&gt;       &lt;b class="fullname show-popup-with-id u-textTruncate " data-aria-label-part=""&gt;Anshika Shukla&lt;/b&gt;‏&lt;span class="UserBadges"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="UserNameBreak"&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link js-nav" data-user-id="80004572" href="https://twitter.com/anshikashukla_"&gt;&lt;span class="username u-dir u-textTruncate" data-aria-label-part="" dir="ltr"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirpur_Group_of_Monuments" target="_blank"&gt;Wikimedia&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://www.quora.com/Where-is-The-Anand-Prabhu-Kudi-Vihar-in-chhattisgarh" target="_blank"&gt;Quora &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;times&amp;quot; , &amp;quot;times new roman&amp;quot; , serif;"&gt;Related Links&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-gangas.html"&gt;Ganga Dynasty (Kalinga) origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/07/who-is-trivara-deva-panduvamsis-reign.html"&gt;Who is Trivara deva? : Reign of Panduvamsis&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-is-kalinganagara.html"&gt;Kalinganagara&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/reign-of-vishnukundin.html"&gt;Reign of VishnuKundin&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2018/01/sharabhapuriya-panduvamshi-dynasties.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>0</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-7431628655361293422</guid><pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2015 23:07:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2015-05-11T04:41:50.256+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Azez</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">era</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gandarvasena</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gardbhilla</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Jain</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kalka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Krta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Malwa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">parthia</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Samvat</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ujjain</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vikram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vikramaditya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vonanes</category><title>Origin of Vikram Samvat : Great Vikramaditya</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
Origin and Vikrama Era or Vikram Samvat at 23rd February, 57 B.C. has been most Controvesial in Indian History. Vikramaditya is said to have initiated this era after defeating sakas. But there is lot of claims on who initiated  this era by modern scholars especially from West. Let us study the origins of vikrama samvat&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;krta&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Until 4th century AD. This era was called Krta era. Around 8th century AD. we have Vikramaditya  associated with this era. &lt;br /&gt;
Some Schoalrs like D C Sircar says it is corruption of the term Kirta, which means purchased.&amp;nbsp; Altekar says Vikramaditya was the king who founded the era and Krta indicated some kind of leader.  Bhandarkar says that the era was actually Krtayuga or Golden Age. He says it was talking about Pushyamitra reign. Bhattacharya says it starts the settlement of Malwa.  Why does not the inscriptions say it is Krtayuga is not explained by these theorists.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Malwa Gana&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Malwa got name from people Malavas who inhabited this place.  In Sanskrit Malav indicates Lakshmi.  Malwa was a Mahajanapada (Republic) from 730 BC.  Ancient Malwa was called Malloi by Alexander and Greek Historians. The Malwa region with Ujjain as capital had Vikramaditya ruling with navaratnas as ministers and scholars. Now malwa gana represents these groups of eminent scholars.. So Malwa gana era indicates the era of these people.   In the Inscriptions from 4th century AD to  8th century AD, it is referred to as Malava Gana, though Krta is also used sometimes. Around 6th century it is called for the fame of Malwa vamsa. We have coins malavaganasya jayah, Malavanam jayah , Jayah Malavanam indicating the victory of Malwa people apparently over Sakas. Malwa Gana Saka show that it was era of malwa people. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://karthikkittu.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/vikramaditya.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="https://karthikkittu.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/vikramaditya.jpg" width="243" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Vikramaditya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Around 9th century it is called vikramaditya Kala. After 11th century the era is fixed to Vikramditya and is so called vikrama Samvat or Vikrama Kala.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Jain&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aryavidya (by sudhakar) says that Mahavira attained his Nirvana 470 years before  king  Vikramaditya.  Pattavali says that Vikramaditya was born 470 years after Mahavira Nirvana. So Mahavira Nirvana happened 527 BC. Kalpa Sutra says Mahavira lived for 72 years. So Mahavira lived between 599BC and 527BC. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Kalakacharya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There was a Jain king Vairisimha of Dhara (Dhar, MP) and Queen Surasundari, who had a son called Kalaka and daughter Sarasvati. Once when they were in Ujjain, King Gardabhilla of Ujjain was enamoured by the beauty of Sarasvati, carried her off. After futile attempts to recover her from clutches of Gardabhilla, Kalaka went westward after crossing river Sindhu reached the country where number of saka chiefs, who were sahi (Subordinates of sahanusahi) ruled. Kalaka broght them under his influence. Once their overlord became angry over Sahis, Kalaka migrated them to India. They came to Ujjain conquering along the way. Sakas defeated captured Gardabhilla alive. They established their ruler in  Ujjain and divided the country among themselves.   Kalaka recovered Sarasvati and avenged humiliation.    After four years of saka rule, Gardabhilla son Vikramaditya drove away sakas and established his rule. Gardabhilla ruled for 13 years, Saka 4 years and Vikramaditya 60 years. This account is from Pattavali (Sanskrit) of Merutunga (14th century AD) sourced from earlier Prakrit Gathas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/382742/1/Kalpa-Sutra-And-Kalak-Acharya-Katha-Manuscript,-And-The-Scene-Above-Kalaka-Saka-King,-Scene-Below-Balamitra-And-Wife.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/382742/1/Kalpa-Sutra-And-Kalak-Acharya-Katha-Manuscript,-And-The-Scene-Above-Kalaka-Saka-King,-Scene-Below-Balamitra-And-Wife.jpg" height="205" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Vonones&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
D C Sarkar, says that Vikrama era is continuation of Era calculated from Parthian ruler  Vonones.  Vonones is the earliest parthian king of Eastern Persia is have assumed title king of Kings and flourished after the Parthian Emperor Mithradates II (125 -88BC) and ruled eastern parts of his domains and  Afghanistan through Viceroys Spalirises, Azes. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Experts First deduced the parthian Reign of Vonones as between 120-70BC.  Now Vonones  is parthian name, but his brother and viceroy has saka name, Spalahora. Mithradates II has assumed the title king of kings during this time. So if take that into account. Vonones has to be after 91BC (Gotarzes challenged Mitradates). But considering his Viceroys starting at 90BC. He has to be before that. Is Mithradates = Vonanes. Now there are maues dated to 80-90BC. Vonones  is a question for another Article. Now we can say Vonanes is not initiator of Vikrama Samavat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Azez Era&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
John Marshall suggest that the Vikarma Era is actually continuation of Azez Era.  The Era calculated from regnal years of  Saka king  who ruled Northwestern Part of the Sub continent.  The Era is spelled as Aya, Aja identified as Azez I.  This view is supported by B N Mukherjee who cites number of inscriptions of Maharaja Aya, Itravarman. The inscriptions refers to Atida, Varta Kala   which indicate Expired Years. Now Krta refers to present time. So Atita and Vratta refers to past and this betrays the logic of saying Vikrama era is continuation of Azez Era. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
John Marshall says that the era denotes the start of Azez Aya, Aja) Era which are found in coins. Now we know that there are two Azes:  Azez I and Azez II. And Azes can also be dated to 90BC from various theories floating around Mithradates, Vonanes and his brother Spalirises. Indologists have also tried to make Azes II as founder of Azes Era. Azes  II can be dated to 22AD as well. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/AzesICoin.JPG/800px-AzesICoin.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/AzesICoin.JPG/800px-AzesICoin.JPG" height="316" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is theory that Aya, Aja cannot be equated with Azez era and there is no azez era as such other than in the minds of Indologists.  Narain argued that aya refers not a king, but is appellation to month or other minor variation to some dating calender. So scholars  Konow 84 BC, Narain 88 BC, Lohuizen 129 BC have proposed this to other eras. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unlike Vikrama era which can be anchored to Kali Yuga date. There is no anchor for Azez Era. Azez Era can be anchored to Greek era with Vijayamitra inscription Azez + 128 = Greek Era. But Greek Era is itself has to be anchored.  Vijayamitra of Apraca gives the 27th year of his reign as 73rd year of Azes, 201 year of Yona or greek era . So the date of Azez 128 years after Indo-Greek Era. Now Studying Demetrius I (186-187BC) and Eucratides I  (171BC)gives two eras  Indo-Greek  and Graeco-Bactrian Eras. There is a great Secluid era(Anchor of all western Eras), which  also has number of Guesses in it.  There is another Bactrian Era starting at 157BC.  There is Araces Era.  Now which era is Vijayamitra is referring to.  If we take the Indo-Greek era as the Greek Era, it gives 171-128 =43BC as the start of Azes Era. This Azes Era 43BC date does not match 57BC of Vikrama Era.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Gupta Chandragupta Vikramaditya &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Most Western Scholars argue that the era came into prominence because of Gupta Emperor Chandragupta Vikramaditya. But Guptas ruled from Pataliputra and Ujjain is the capital of Vikramaditya we are talking about.    Some have floated the idea of second capital , but there is absolutely no basis for the second capital. Not single Gupta Inscription is dated to this era, not even found in malwa region. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/ChandraguptaIIOnHorse.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/ChandraguptaIIOnHorse.jpg" height="318" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;Literature&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Brihat Kathamanjari, Katha Sarit sagara by Kshemendra narrate the stories of Vikarmaditya defeating Melecchas and ruling gloriously.  Bana in Harshacharita sings glowing tribute to Vikramaditya partronage to Literaturers. Kalkacharya Kathanka, Pattavalis, Jyothividabharana all say that the era was founded by Vikramaditya who lived in 1st century BC.  Puranas say that Gardabhilla is family name and give 7 kings(Jain 6) from this dynasty and they were followed by Sakas. Kathasaritsagara describes victorious camp of vikramaditya, joined by the king of Saktikumara of Gauda, Jayadhvaja of Karnata, Vijayavarman of Lata, Sunandana of Kashmir, Gopala of Sind, Vindyaballa of Bhills etc&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;Gandarvasena &lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bhavishya Purana Says at the completion of 3000 years after the advent of the terrible Kaliyuga, a person descended from the abode of Guhyakas in Kailasa, at the command of Siva, for the purpose of destroying the Sakas and uplifting Arya-Dharma.  He was born to the Great King Gandharvasena. The father named him ‘Vikramaditya’ and felt very much rejoiced. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Al Beruni&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Arabic Traveller Scholar Alberuni says in his Kitab-ul-Hind(1030 AD), Vikrama Era starts 135 years before Saka Era. We know Saka era Starts at 78AD. So vikrama Era is 57BC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.indianmirror.com/temples/images/mahaleshwar-top-im.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://www.indianmirror.com/temples/images/mahaleshwar-top-im.jpg" height="135" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Discussion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There is not much evidence to show that there was a Era named after Vonones. The Azez Era eventhough mentioned in the inscriptions, cannot be said to be era like Vikrama era. The date of Start of Azez Era is suspect. So both these era's cannot be equated with Vikrama Era.  We have well known tradition of this era being used as Krta , Malwagana and Vikrama era's. Eventhough the name changes over period, the era is fairly accurate. This era as per tradition started 57BC and had origin in the court of Vikramaditya in Ujjain. The Era seems to have used only in Malwa region as Krta era or golden age. Later when rulers of Ujjain went to other parts of India. The era went outside as Malwagana saka, The era of malwa people. Around 8th century the tributes were paid to the great Vikramaditya. The era was then came to be known as vikramaditya Sake. We have literary evidence in the Jain Literature. Inscriptional evidence of vikramaditya and have coins issued to celebrate Malwa people victory over Sakas. Indology scholars have rejected all the Indian evidence and struck to equating the era to some foreign ruler from that time. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vikramaditya established the rule of Malwas by driving out Sakas from Malwas and adjoinging areas. The tradition first started to celebrate this success, later went take name of the leader who made this happen, Sakari Vikramaditya of Ujjain.  It came to be known as Vikrama Samvat starting from 57BC. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Source&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;A Note on the Vikrama and Saka Eras by B N MUkherjee Indian Journal of Science 32(1), 1997&lt;br /&gt;
Vikrama Era by Ajay Mitra Shastri Indian Journal of History of Science, 31(1), 1996&lt;br /&gt;
A rough guide to Kushan History - The Azes Era by Roberto Bracy. &lt;br /&gt;
Introduction: numismatic, literary and epigraphic evidence on chronology in Gandhara by Osmund Bopearachchi&lt;br /&gt;
ALBEEUNI'S INDIA by Dr Edward C Sachau&amp;nbsp;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Images&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;nbsp;&lt;span class="_r3"&gt;&lt;a class="irc_hl irc_hol" data-noload="" data-ved="0CAsQjB0wAA" href="http://rakshakarthik.com/2010/11/05/deepavali/"&gt;&lt;span class="irc_ho" dir="ltr"&gt;rakshakarthik.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span class="_r3"&gt;&lt;span class="irc_ho" dir="ltr"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span class="_r3"&gt;&lt;a class="irc_hl irc_hol" data-noload="" data-ved="0CAYQjB0" href="http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Indian-School/Kalpa-Sutra-And-Kalak-Acharya-Katha-Manuscript,-And-The-Scene-Above-Kalaka-Saka-King,-Scene-Below-Balamitra-And-Wife.html"&gt;&lt;span class="irc_ho" dir="ltr"&gt;www.1st-art-gallery.com&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span class="_r3"&gt;&lt;span class="irc_ho" dir="ltr"&gt;www.wikipedia.org/ &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span class="_r3"&gt;&lt;span class="irc_ho" dir="ltr"&gt;www.indiamirror.com&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2015/05/origin-of-vikrama-samvat-great.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>1</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-7827821330501689859</guid><pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2015 18:48:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2015-05-08T10:03:21.784+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">alberuni</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Aryabhatta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Astrology</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Astronomy</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">era</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Harsha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kalhana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Samvat</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">shalivahana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ujjain</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Varahamihira</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vikram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vikramaditya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vraddha Garga</category><title>Old Saka Era - Varahmihira 's  Sree Harsha Era</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;We have consistently seen Saka era along with Vikrama Samvat are two era used in India for the last two thousand years. We have seen Pulakesin gives shalivahana saka starting at 78 AD. Vikram Samvat starts at 56BC.  In Indian Literature these dates are counted from start of Kaliyuga that is 3102 BC. in Kaliyuga counting Saka era starts at 3180 and Vikram samvat starts at 3046. These dates are well established by Indian and Foreign experts.  So what is the problem.  Let us see.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Varahamihira Saka&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Varahamihira quotes Vraddha Ganga "According to Vrddha Ganga, the Sages (Saptarsis) resided in the Magha nakshatra, when king Yudisthira ruled the earth, and the year of the reign can be obtained by adding 2526 years to the number of saka years elapsed".&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now we have Vraddha Garga , who is an impeccable astrologer and Varahamihira even more versatile one, why will they give the dates wrong. When we see this saka era it starts at 576 BC.  We know Shalivahana Sake Starts at 78AD.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;Let us analyse.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://glimpse2u.weebly.com/uploads/1/5/3/6/15369228/489919440_orig.jpg?160" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://glimpse2u.weebly.com/uploads/1/5/3/6/15369228/489919440_orig.jpg?160" height="320" width="228" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Who is varahamihira &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Vahara Mihira was Astronomer , Mathematician and Astrologer who lived in Ujjain, he was born in Avanti region (Malwa) to Astronomer Adityadasa. He was educated at Kapitthaka. He is considered as one of the Nine Jewels of Vikramaditya of Ujjian.  His son Prithuyasas was also Astrologer, his work Hora Sara.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;His main Work is Panchasiddhantika (treatise of Five cannons(Astronomical)). He gives info on older Indian Astronomical works now lost namely Surya Siddhanta, Romaka Siddhanta, Paulisa Siddhanta, Vasishtha Siddhanta and Paitamaha Siddhanta. It is a monumental Work.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another major work is encyclopeidic Brihat Samihta. It covers wide ranging subjects of Human interest, including astrology, planetary movements, eclipses, rainfal, clouds, architecture, growth of crops, manufacture of perfume, matrimony, domestic relations, gems, pearls, rituals etc.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;His Other works in Astrology include Brihat Jataka, Laghu Jataka, Samasa Samhita (Swalpa samhita), Brihat Yogayatra, Yoga Yatra, Tikkani yatra, Brihat Vivaha Patal, Lagu Vivaha Patal, Lagna Varahi, Kutuhala Manjari, Daivajna Vallabha.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="http://www.hindustantimes.com/images/2013/4/100e73de-d963-4457-ac7a-50a8949a3adbhires.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://www.hindustantimes.com/images/2013/4/100e73de-d963-4457-ac7a-50a8949a3adbhires.jpg" height="238" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;427 - Saka&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Varahamihira says 427 must be subtracted from saka era for his era. So 427 saka was the start of his era or birth of varahamihira. Amara raja gives the date of 509 Saka for varahamihira death. Indologists  comes with 427 + 78 = 505AD as the birth of  varahamihira. So the problem is solved. But why does the dates don't reconcile.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Astronomical Positions mentioned in his works don't match for celestial positions of 6th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Shalivahana Saka is famous in South and West of India and Ujjain or Malwa especially followed Vikrama Samvat. Now why does one refer to Shalivahana Saka, which is from rival powerhouse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If Aryabhatta was in 5th century AD, Varahamihira was in 6th century AD. Pulakesin Edict is 7th century AD. While Aryabhatta and Pulakesin Edict gives 3102BC and Varahamihira 2448bc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Working from 576BC as start of Saka era gives varahamihira date as 149 - 67 BC , which places Varhamihira in Vikramaditya court as one of the nine jewels.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is a traditional as well as modern view that kalidasa and Varahamihira are contemproaries&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jyotividabharana, a treatise on Astrology says it was completed on month of kartika of the year 3068 of kali (34BC). It says that the framing rule for finding ayanamsa is 445 years after saka and remainder divided by 60.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If we go by Al beruni statement, Gupta reign ended 241 years after Saka era, If we take 78AD, than it comes to 319AD.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no scope for Vikramaditya of Ujjain reigning in 6th century AD for Varahamihira to become his navaratna.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alberuni says that Year 400 years before Vikramaditya or 457 BC was in use before Vikaramaditya.  He calls it as Sree Harsha Era. This era was available in 11 century AD.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJeumyQmvU_RgMuuOE3TB4clD2hOp6VedEXHqrHKiGBAM2qIvlra6n4g6yQbwjTXRwhuOlFbHkbDNswinoylBgzSkN6r9HMdMXyRGlawejCotMIWRDP06yo3qdzbF9Q7FfRtwGgMaEueE/s230/kvchelam.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJeumyQmvU_RgMuuOE3TB4clD2hOp6VedEXHqrHKiGBAM2qIvlra6n4g6yQbwjTXRwhuOlFbHkbDNswinoylBgzSkN6r9HMdMXyRGlawejCotMIWRDP06yo3qdzbF9Q7FfRtwGgMaEueE/s230/kvchelam.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sree Harsha Vikramaditya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kota Venkatachalam says, based on the authority of Bhavishya purana, that this Vikramaditya is a son of Gandharvasena , a King of Ujjain. His son Deva Bhaktha reigned after him.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;T S Naryana Sastri says that Sri Harsha Vikramaditya of Kashmir defeated the sakas and in commoration of his victory founded the Harsha era, in the year 457BC. In his work Haidimba Vaidagdhya, he identifies Matrgupta of the court of king Harsa Vikramaditya of ujjain as Kalidasa I living in 6th century BC and Medharudra on the court of of vikramaditya of Malwa as Kalidasa II  in first century BC. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sakas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sakas came to prominence on the periphery of India around 800 BC.  They Came into prominence in India after the collapse of Satavahanas dynasty in Magada (802BC).  They were in prominence for 380 years (802 - 422 BC). They were in considerable power struggle with local Indian rulers.   In 551BC Darius has  collected all the scattered Saka and invaded India.  Which confirms 576 BC to be date when Sakas were soundly thrashed and scattered by Sree harsha. This may start Saka era in this case old saka era. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The saka era of kalahana&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Saka of Kalhana and Varahamihira are same. Kalhana also talks about Sree Harsha Vikramaditya of ujjain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Disucssion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Varahamihira was one of the nine jewels of Vikramaditya court.&lt;br /&gt;Varahamihira was born in 427 Saka. He died in 509 Saka.&lt;br /&gt;Shalivahana saka does not fit to this dates.  As there is no vikramaditya in Ujjain during at that time(6th century AD). There were no sakas also at that time. Hunas were already  vanishing.  So there  is no probability of Vikramaditya in 6th century AD at Ujjain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Date of old saka era is 3102-2526 =  576BC. Some people take the start  2526 from Start of Yuddhistra era and arrive around 612BC. Here  576 is calculated from end of Yuddhistra reign, which ended soon after Kali yuga started.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When Varhamihira talks about saka kala, Saka Bhupakala, Sakendra kala, Saka Nrpati Kala, it refers to rule of saka rulers in India not shalivahana saka.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All these points when we consider does indicate there was old or original saka era started by Sree Harsha in Sixth century BC. Varahamihira, Vraddha Garga and few others quote this saka era. Even alberuni seems to mention this saka era.  Later on he seems to have confused himself with Harshavardhan of Kannuj. This varahamihira was in the court of vikramaditya of Ujjain in first century BC.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;Date of start of Old saka era is 576BC.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div align="left" style="color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #010101;"&gt;&lt;span&gt;Source&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="https://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/ancient-indian-calendars/how-many-kinds-of-sakas-eras-are-there/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;https://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/ancient-indian-calendars/how-many-kinds-of-sakas-eras-are-there/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Essays on Indian Antiquities, Historic, Numismatic, and Palaeographic  By James Prinsep&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/saka/index.htm#introduction" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/saka/index.htm#introduction&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;History of Civilizations of Central Asia: The Development of Sedentary :  By A. H. Dani, UNESCO Staff, M. S. Asimov, B. A. Litvinsky, Guang-da Zhang, R. Shabani Samghabadi, C. E. Bosworth, Unesco&lt;br /&gt;Kaliyuga, Saptarsi, Yudhisthira and Laukika Eras by K.D. Abhyankar and G.M Ballabh&lt;br /&gt;Saka Era by Ajay Mishra Shastry&lt;br /&gt;History of Classical Sanskrit Literature by  By M. Srinivasachariar&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://bharatbhumika.blogspot.in/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Essays on historical and mythological India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Age of Bhārata War  edited by Giriwar Charan Agarwala&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Images&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://trueindianhistory-kvchelam.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;True Indian History&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://amudu-gowripalan.blogspot.in/2013/05/king-vikramaditya-or-vikram-gold-coin.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Amudu&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://glimpse2u.weebly.com/varahamihira.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Glympse&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: inherit;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html#.VUe4s_ByzRc" target="_blank"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-kanishka-era.html"&gt;Kanishka Era&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthenes Meet Chandragupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html"&gt;Date of Kalidasa - Gupta Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-rig-veda.html"&gt;Date of Rig Veda&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;


&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2015/05/old-saka-era-varahmihira-s-sree-harsha.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhJeumyQmvU_RgMuuOE3TB4clD2hOp6VedEXHqrHKiGBAM2qIvlra6n4g6yQbwjTXRwhuOlFbHkbDNswinoylBgzSkN6r9HMdMXyRGlawejCotMIWRDP06yo3qdzbF9Q7FfRtwGgMaEueE/s72-c/kvchelam.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>2</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-5311017704020313656</guid><pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:00:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2015-05-08T10:05:13.271+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Adisankara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Alwar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">dravidian</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gauda</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">GnanaSambandhar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">milk</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sambandhar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sampanthar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Shankara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Shanmata</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">shiva</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">tamil</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">thevaram</category><title>Dravida Sishu between Sankara and Sambandhar</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
Soundaryalahari  stanza is given below. It contains world Dravida sisu. Now who is sankara referring to as dravida Sissu is the debate. Is it Sankara or Sambandhar. Let us see.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Dravida Sishu in Soundaryalahari &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;i&gt;tava stanyam manyE tuhinagirikanyE hrdayata:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;paya:pArAvAra: parivahati sAraswatamiva I&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;dayAvatyA dattAm dravidasisurAsvAdya tava yat&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;kavInAm praud’AnAm ajani kamanIya: kava yithA II&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
The Milk of your Breasts, O daughter of the Mountain, I think is as if from heart there flowed an ocean of the milk of poesy, when the Dravida child tasted this as you gave it to him in compassion, He became the poet laureate of the master poets. (Norman Brown’s translation)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now the question is who is this dravida Sisu, There is various theories on who this is. Let us see them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Sankara&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This is the legendary story of about Sankara when he was a kid. Sankara's father Sivaguru worshipped Manikyamangalam Sri Katyayani Devi, who was his Ishta Devata.  Sivaguru  offered milk as naivedyam to this Devi and brought home a small quantity of this milk as prasadam every day.  Sivaguru used to give this prasadam  to the child Sankara which he thought that it was the remnant left over by the Deity.&lt;br /&gt;
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Once, Sivaguru had to proceed to a distant place. Hence,  Aryamba, Sankara’s mother took care of the  poojas  on his behalf. Sankara, a child of four years also assisted her during the poojas.  One day, Aryamba directed Sankara to  do the poojas , since she was not well.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTPA95UOITOTrvtesFC-3Ncdw6vTv9uRMYxDBmNsIptQghQaDF" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="239" src="https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTPA95UOITOTrvtesFC-3Ncdw6vTv9uRMYxDBmNsIptQghQaDF" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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Sankara went to the temple and placed the pail of milk before the Godddess and prayed her to drink the milk.  After some time, seeing that the Goddess did not consume the milk, the child started to weep loudly on disappointment. &lt;br /&gt;
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Immediately,  She appeared before Sankara and drank all the milk in the vessel in order to console him. Sankara stopped weeping and looked into the pail. He again started weeping!...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Devi was surprised and asked him the reason. Sankara asked Her to give him his share! With a smile Devi placed him on her lap and fed him with the milk from Her breast. It is said that because this divine blessing, Sankara became a celebrated poet. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Sambandhar&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sambandar was born to Sivapada Hrudiyar and his wife Bhagavathiar who lived in Sirkazhi in what is now Tamil Nadu. They were Saivite brahmins. When Sambandar was three years old his parents took him to the Shiva temple where Shiva and his consort Parvati appeared before the child. His father saw drops of milk on the child's mouth and asked who had fed him, whereupon the boy pointed to the sky and responded with the song Todudaya Seviyan, the first verse of the Tevaram. His father impressed named in Ganan Sambandhar. He later was called Thiru Gnana Sambandhar. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQT2-uUCk3SkVwg5lqpe5HC-Lu3MRa-0Zg6ED0GrOPNQEJsaIfx" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQT2-uUCk3SkVwg5lqpe5HC-Lu3MRa-0Zg6ED0GrOPNQEJsaIfx" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Discussion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Dravida Sissu is Sambandhar&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now the debate is Dravida Sissu mentioned by Sankara Soundharya Lahiri is Sambandhar according to Dravidian Scholars. Let us see.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Shankara is Dravida Sishu&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Most scholars think it refers to himself. The story suggest same. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/u&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Jaya Jaya Sankara&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Appar Contemproary of Sambandhar used Jaya Jaya Sankara in his thevarm poem. Now we all know he is referring to Shiva. But we can also say he is referring to Adi sankara. Such word play cannot form basis for historical debate. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Shanmatha&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Adi Sankara combined 72 sects to establish six streams of&amp;nbsp; Hindu Diety Worship. Vishnu, Shiva, Devi(Shakti), Surya , Ganesh, Shanmuga (Skanda). Now this concept is called Shanmatha. Sambandhar refers to shanmatha in his padigam.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Dravidacharya&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sankara ParamaGuru (Guru of Guru Govindapadacharya) Gaudapadacharya is knows as Dravidacharya in North. Shankara praises him as the ultimate authority of his philosophies. Dravida can be a reference to him.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="http://www.sringeri.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/amnaya_peethams.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://www.sringeri.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/amnaya_peethams.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;u&gt;Date of Sambandhar&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now we already seen in another article on Date of Devaram Trio, date of Sambandhar is atleast 1200 AD or later. Dravidian Scholars claim the date to be 7th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/u&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Date of Adi Sankara&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Official accepted date is 8th century AD. But there are many claims such as 5th Century BC etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Chola Statues&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There are some temples dedicated to thevaram trio and some have a statue of a child. Usually statue of child eating butter is Krishna. But due to Sambandhar legend, there are Sambandhar statues as well. Dravidian scholars are of the view that all the child statues are sambandhar.  Now when do these statues start apprearing, After 1100AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Shankara dates come before Sambandhar. The Sambandhar references to Adi Shankara are often ignored by Dravidian scholars, only Dravida Zizzu in Soundarya Lahiri  spoken about.  So the Dravida sishu refers to Adi Sankara  and not Sampandar &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sources and References: &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://sankaramathas.blogspot.in/2013/05/sankaras-father-sivaguru.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Sankara&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://hindi.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/faith-and-rituals/adi-shankara-mysterious-sundara-pandya" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Speaking Tree&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/1084594-dravidazizu-in-sanskrit/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;India Divine&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;u&gt;&lt;i&gt;Images&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
Sringeri.net &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-shankara.html"&gt;Date of Shankara&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2013/10/date-of-devaram-thevaram-trio.html#.Ul0uJVMSM1L" target="_blank"&gt;Date of Devaram Trio&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/religiously-tamil-religious-movement-in.html"&gt;Divine Tamil&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/06/myths-of-kanchi-kamakoti-peetam.html"&gt;Kanchi Mutt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;TOPICS&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2015/01/dravida-sishu-sankara-Sambandhar.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>1</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-1057994098199965810</guid><pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 04:18:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2014-06-24T09:48:08.004+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Christian</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Christianity</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">church</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Conversion</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Crusade</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gentile</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">gothic</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Greece</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">hellenistic</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">orthodox</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pope</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Rome</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Slave</category><title>Christian History Myth and Reality</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
 &lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Things They Don't Tell You About Christianity&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;by ecclesi, freetruth.50webs.org&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;History&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Ancient Greece and Rome&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The early fathers of the Church hated Greek civilisation and sought its destruction:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;The philobarbarian attitude of Saint John Chrysostom [3rd-4th century]:&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"The more a nation looks barbaric and is estranged from Greek culture, the more our teachings shine - this (faithful) barbarian has conquered the entire world and while all Greek culture is extinguished and destroyed, his (the barbarian's) shines brighter every day". &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All over the empire, mobs of Christian monks went about destroying the many Greco-Roman works of art, libraries of antiquity, and pre-Christian temples:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Greek called them "swinish black-cloths", because "they looked like men but lived like pigs".&lt;br /&gt;A contemporary writer tells us&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;"armed with clubs or stones and swords they ran to the temples, some without these weapons only with their bare hands and feet"&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-- (Libanios "Pro temples" 389 AD)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As soon as they had destroyed one temple, they dashed away to the next. They toppled over walls, smashed idols, statues and art-objects and altars, and stole the temples wealth for themselves.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From the time of Constantine, Rome's first Christian emperor:&lt;br /&gt;from 314 CE all the way to 988 CE, the Hellenes (ancient Greeks) were persecuted and their civilisation destroyed. The Greeks were exterminated if they would not convert -&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;359 CE - In Skythopolis, Syria, &lt;b&gt;Christians organise the first death camps&lt;/b&gt; for the torture and execution of arrested Gentiles [adherents of pre-Christian religions] from all around the Empire.&lt;br /&gt;...&lt;br /&gt;385 to 388 - Maternus Cynegius, encouraged by his fanatic wife, and bishop, "Saint" Marcellus with his gangs scour the countryside, sack and destroy hundreds of Hellenic Temples, shrines and altars. Amongst others they destroy the Temple of Edessa, the Cabeireion of Imbros, the Temple of Zeus in Apamea, the Temple of Apollo in Dydima and all the Temples of Palmyra. &lt;b&gt;Thousands of innocent Gentiles from all sides of the Empire suffer martyrdom in the notorious death camps of Skythopolis.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;...&lt;br /&gt;950 to 988 - &lt;b&gt;Violent conversion of the last Gentile Hellenes &lt;/b&gt;of Laconia by the Armenian "Saint" Nikon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The oldest and most renowned Churches are actually built on sites which previously had pre-Christian temples on them - which Christians had demolished. This happened all over the Roman Empire, to Syria in the East and North Africa and Palestine in the South.&lt;br /&gt;And:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The cave of the Vatican belonged to Mithra until 376 A.D., when a city prefect suppressed the cult of the rival Savior and seized the shrine in the name of Christ, on the very birthday of the pagan god, December 25.&lt;br /&gt;-&lt;i&gt;- Barbara G. Walker&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Until Constantine's time, the most favourable estimate (which many scholars consider too optimistic) of the Christian population in the entire empire was no more than 5%. About 2/3 of these were in Armenia, and much of the remainder in Syria and Asia minor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;According to Roman sources, the Christians ...in Rome ...were considered a small, uneducated group of religious troublemakers from the lowest social classes, operating in the shadowy sides of society.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The educated Romans disliked the religion. Some of them wrote books refuting Christianity, like the Epicurean Kelsos in his Alethes Logos, the last pagan emperor Julian in his Kata Christianon, and Porphyry's Against the Christians. The Church, unable to sufficiently counter their well-reasoned arguments (which it occasionally attempted), "won" the debate by destroying these works when it finally got into power. Even so, some scanty ancient literature against Christianity remains, pieced together from the unsuccessful attempts at responding by Christian Church fathers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;The ancient Romans: persecutors or persecuted?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Facts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No Christian was put to death in the ColiseumAll stories of Christians being exposed to lions in the Roman Amphitheater are bogus.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Joseph McCabe, historian and former Franciscan monk&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How many persecutions? And why?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Not 10, as Christians claim, but no more than 2 or at most 3:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Decius (249-251), Valerian (257), and Diocletian (303) were the only general and systematic persecutors.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no doubt in the mind of any historian that in trying to suppress or check Christianity -- at first in each case by the lighter penalties -- they were consulting the welfare of the state, which was then sinking.&lt;br /&gt;Professor Gwatkin himself remarks that &lt;b&gt;many of the Christians, so far from being willing to defend the Empire, were "half inclined to welcome the Goths and Persians as avengers."&lt;/b&gt; The Pope insolently and openly defied Valerian at Rome: and Diocletian's decrees were torn down by Christians in his own palace who relied on the protection of his womenfolk.&lt;br /&gt;Before Diocletian the Church had had forty years of peace, and it had grown sufficiently to make its &lt;b&gt;anti-patriotic teaching &lt;/b&gt;a matter of concern. Yet in not one of the three decrees of Diocletian is the death sentence imposed.&lt;br /&gt;--&lt;i&gt; The Story Of Religious Controversy, by historian Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Facts: Historical truths vs Christian fictions&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Acta of the martyrs (records of trials and execution) are&lt;b&gt; entirely from fictitious lives or are forgeries. &lt;/b&gt;Pagan deities were sometimes used as martyrs and were turned into Saints.&lt;br /&gt;The fraud led to the birth of the profitable relic industry.Instead of a vast number martyring themselves for Christianity upon persecution, and inspiring pagans to convert, there was a &lt;b&gt;vast apostasy as Christians left the faith in droves. &lt;/b&gt;One of these apostates was &lt;i&gt;Pope Marcellinus&lt;/i&gt;, wrongly revered as a Saint and Martyr.&lt;br /&gt;Find out the details&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Did Christian virtue inspire the pagans to convert?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3rd century &lt;b&gt;St. Cyprian's&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;letters to the pope describe how a large part of his&lt;b&gt; clergy and bishops&lt;/b&gt; were unmitigated scoundrels: &lt;b&gt;fornication, murder, embezzlement, and all the rest of it.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;-- How Christianity Grew Out of Paganism, by Joseph McCabe&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;St. Jerome was convinced that Christian men and women, including priests and nuns, could not be trusted. According to him the only women of virtue to be seen on the streets of Rome were not Christians but pagans.&lt;br /&gt;All the early bishops from all over the empire - St Augustine, Bishop Optatus, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Saint Hippolytus and others - insisted that their congregation of Christians were highly immoral and corrupt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Why and how did the pagans of the empire convert?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The ... undisputed fact is that there was no "attraction" of the pagans at all. In the extant Theodosian Code we have ten decrees which the bishops got from the emperors suppressing all rival religions and sects under pain of fine, imprisonment, or death.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- How Christianity Grew Out of Paganism, by Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;See details&lt;br /&gt;The conversion of the ancient Greeks and Romans was achieved through violence and systematic destruction of the Greco-Roman civilisations&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Christianity improved Rome?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Slavery&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Professor Dill comes close to the facts when he says that "the slave class of antiquity really corresponded to our free labouring class." It will not do, therefore, to identify Pagan with Christian slavery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Christianity, Slavery and Labour, by Chapman Cohen&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the first century the Stoics openly condemned slavery. Other Greek moralists besides the Stoics condemned it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by historian Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Such was their influence that in still-pagan Rome:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;the "manumission" of slaves -- the grant or sale of freedom to them -- was a daily occurrence.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is an historical fact, supported by the most positive of evidence that slavery in the Roman Empire was mitigated by the noble philosophy of the Stoics and not by the teachings of the church fathers, who never thought of recommending the abolition of slavery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- History of Civilization, by historian Emil Reich&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Emperor Constantine wasn't the only one who undid the humane laws enacted by the Stoic emperors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;in 541 C.E. the Council of Orleans required that the descendants of slaves should be re-enslaved.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Faiths of Man Encyclopedia of Religions, by J.G.R. Forlong&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This was but one of many laws on slavery enacted during various Church councils.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pope Gregory was the greatest slave-owner in the world in the sixth century. ... He would not allow any slave to become a cleric, and he expressly reaffirmed (Epp. vii, 1) that no slave could marry a free Christian.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The early Church fathers, Saints, Popes, Protestant Reformers all condoned slavery - it was Biblical, after all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Abbey of St Germain des Pr�s owned 80,000 slaves, and that of St. Martin de Tours 20,000.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Faiths of Man Encyclopedia of Religions, by J.G.R. Forlong&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Find out more facts about slavery before the trade in Africans&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Education&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Roman municipalities supplied free elementary instruction for the children of all workers. P&lt;b&gt;ractically every Roman worker could read and write by the year 380 A.D&lt;/b&gt;., when Christianity began to have real power. &lt;b&gt;By 480 nearly every school in the Empire was destroyed&lt;/b&gt;. By 580, and until 1780 at least, from ninety to ninety-five percent of the people of Europe were illiterate and densely ignorant. That is the &lt;b&gt;undisputed historical record of Christianity as regards education.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Since Christianity regarded learning, mathematics and science as paganism, its followers went about the empire destroying all the schools as they had done the libraries, temples, hospitals and works of art.&lt;br /&gt;Latin, taken over by the Roman Church, was ruined; even monks at the Vatican wrote in barbarous Latin, whilst most priests were illiterate. McCabe writes:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rome under the Popes had sunk to an illiteracy that has no parallel elsewhere in the history of civilization.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by historian Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So much so that by the 11th century:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The illiteracy of Europe had increased to more than ninety-nine percent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Facts about "monks preserving knowledge"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where the monks did spend any part of their time in "the writing room," they were, naturally, copying the Fathers of the Church and later Christian literature.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most of the ancient writings had been burnt on purpose, either along with the ancient libraries or in the Medieval auto-da-fes. A few were preserved wholly by accident when monks, desperate for papyrus which was expensive, collected old manuscripts and overwrote them. Among them:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Parts of the Iliad and the 'Elements' of Euclid were covered by monkish treatises.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Forgery in Christianity, by Joseph Wheless&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ancient works were never willingly preserved:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for "monks constantly occupied in copying the classic texts," for the preservation and diffusion of Pagan culture, it is a joke! They couldn't read Greek nor good Latin, and nobody else could read at all, -- also, Holy Church and Churchmen loathed Pagan culture and literature.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Forgery in Christianity, by Joseph Wheless&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Read more about the ignorant Dark Ages brought on by Christianity&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;More Christian fictions about Rome&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Converting the rest of Europe to the True Faith&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is estimated that Europe was Christianised at a cost of about 8 to 10 million lives. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;804 CE. The last heathen resistance in Saxony is put down. In thirty years of genocide, from 774 to 804, two thirds of the Saxons have been killed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sami people [the indigenous people of Scandinavia] were converted to Christianity by force and shamanic practices were forbidden.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And like in Greece and Rome, Christians demolished heathen shrines to build a Church over them. For instance, in&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1083 CE The temple at Uppsala (Sweden) was destroyed, and construction of a church on the site is initiated. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;16th and 17th century Ireland. &lt;/i&gt;English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only &lt;b&gt;Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing."&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[ citing American Holocaust, by D. Stannard, 1992]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More&lt;br /&gt;Eastern-Europe remained unconverted until the Crusades when pious Christian knights committed mass-murder and even complete genocide in the north-east.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Intolerance&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;"Unbelievers deserve not only to be separated from the Church, but also... to be exterminated from the World by death."&lt;br /&gt;-- &lt;b&gt;Saint &lt;/b&gt;Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, 1271&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;The early Church Councils&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These volatile and often violent meetings were held during the 4th and 5th centuries, when bishops voted on which doctrines would be Christian orthodoxy ("divinely inspired") and which were to be considered heresy and persecuted. Disagreements were rife and gave rise to numerous Christian sects which were inimical to each other. The Arians had been persecuted to extinction, so too the Donatists, and the Nestorians killed or driven out of the empire. In the 5th century, the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists in Spain, and the Manichaeans in the whole Roman empire, were persecuted - mostly to extinction.&lt;br /&gt;Read more about the early Christian sects victimised for heresy, and how murder and threats ("divine inspiration") during the early Church Councils determined the orthodox Christian doctrines of today.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Crusades&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Besides the infamous Children's Crusade, and those against the Jews and Moslems and Eastern Orthodox Church, there were also:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Crusades to convert-or-kill the pagans of Eastern-Europe and the Balkans:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;among such pagans were the Obotrites, Pomeranians, Wiltzi, Serbs, Letts, Livonians, Finns, and Prussians.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Forgery in Christianity, by Joseph Wheless&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Baltic (original) Prussians were completely exterminated in a mass genocide, as were the Stedingers of Germany. Heathen Lithuania also faced routine genocides of its population by Christians, and in the end lost out:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Crusades were undertaken against Livonia, Courland, Esthonia, and Prussia. In Lithuania Christianity did not win until 1368.&lt;br /&gt;...&lt;br /&gt;In Hungary, during the tenth and eleventh centuries, "the new religion was spread by the sword. ..."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Forgery in Christianity, by Joseph Wheless&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Crusades to exterminate heretical Christian sects:&lt;/b&gt; The Catharan, Albigensian heretics: in the Albigensian Crusade half of France was exterminated. By the end of the 13th century &lt;b&gt;one million of the French heretics had been massacred&lt;/b&gt;. In 1487, Pope Innocent VIII called for a Crusade against the French Waldensians, who had already been declared heretics in the 1184 Council of Verona. They were hounded and killed until the 17th century.  See more on the Crusades&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Inquisitions and witch hunts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then there were the three Inquisitions: the first was against heretics and witches mainly; 95% of the victims of the Second (Spanish) Inquisition were Jews; and the Third Inquisition went after Protestants and other heretics as well as witches again.&lt;br /&gt;At the start of the First Inquistion, the victims were only burnt to death. But:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Torture of suspects was authorized by Pope Innocent IV in 1252, and thus inquisition chambers were turned into places of abject horror.&lt;br /&gt;...Torture was not finally removed as a legal option for church officials until 1917 when the Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect. &lt;br /&gt;Inquisitors were placed entirely above the law by Pope Innocent IV's bull Ad extirpanda. Most of the torturing was performed by members of the Dominican order, whilst many other inquisitors and torturers were monks of the Franciscan order. The inquisitors and the Holy Church became filthy rich from the assets of their victims.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The edicts that established the Inquisition have never been repealed. They are "officially still part of the Catholic faith, and were used as justification for certain practices as recently as 1969."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Historian Will Durant, in his History of Civilisation puts &lt;b&gt;the number of fatalities of the witch hunts between 7 and 9 millions.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Entire villages and towns were depopulated of their women-folk.&lt;br /&gt;For 5 centuries throughout Europe, both the Protestant and Catholic Churches went after "witches", especially those referred to as "good witches":&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even relatively permissive England killed 30,000 witches between 1542 and 1736. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More on the inquisitions and witch hunts&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Reformation&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Thirty Year War (1618-48)&lt;/i&gt; between the Protestants and Catholics, led to the &lt;b&gt;deaths of more than a quarter of Europe's population&lt;/b&gt;. -- Ed Babinsky In Germany alone, the war resulted in an estimated drop of its population from 18 million to 4 million. In Bohemia, its 30,000 villages were reduced to 6,000 and its 3 million citizens slaughtered down to 780,000. -- Joseph McCabe In the Netherlands, Catholic Spain murdered more than a 100,000 men and women. -- Joseph McCabe&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;During the many Huguenot wars ravaging France, Huguenot soldiers hunted [Catholic] priests like animals and one captain is reported to have worn a necklace of priests' ears. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Catholics butchered &lt;b&gt;30,000 Huguenots&lt;/b&gt; in one day: the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There was also utter intolerance and mutual persecution between the numerous Protestant sects that had sprung up all over the continent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More on the Reformation, its intolerance and the Reformers&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Women&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Woman was merely man's helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Saint Augustine (354-430)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"Wife: Be content to be insignificant. What loss would it be to God or man had you never been born."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- John Wesley (1703-91), Reformer, founder of the Methodist movement&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More of what respected Christians have said about women, firmly basing their views on the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;The Biblical Curse of Eve was used by clergy to prevent physicians from administering anaesthetics to relieve pain during child birth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Fact&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;584 CE Council Of Macon&lt;/i&gt;: bishops gathered to vote on "&lt;b&gt;Are women human&lt;/b&gt;?" By a narrow vote (of 1), women obtained human status in Christianity.&lt;br /&gt;Apparently, the decision was not final, as the question had to be reconsidered by the Protestants too:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lutherans at Wittenberg debated whether women were really human beings at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Dark Side of Christianity, by Helen Ellerbe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Equality in Christianity today:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"A wife should submit herself to the leadership of her husband. Leadership in the church should always be male."&lt;br /&gt;-- Southern Baptist Convention (2000) &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Children&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Since the birth-control policy of Christianity resulted in couples having many unwanted children, many of them were mistreated in the Middle Ages. In later times (like during the Industrial Revolution) they were still seen as just another mouth to feed and sent off to do gruelling work, even in mines, and were often kept illiterate. Besides hard labour, children of Christian families have also been subjected to severe mental abuse and have also suffered from physical abuse, as sanctioned by the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Fact&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Several Christian denominations have brought back child-beating to chastise their erring children. There are Christian sites selling rods for this purpose, as specified by the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Christianity in the Americas, Africa, Asia and the Pacific&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Convert and kill in the Americas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When in 1530 CE the Pope finally declared that the Indians were human, the pious Christians began converting the heathens:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"The [Catholic] Spaniards in Mexico and Peru used to baptize Indian infants and then immediately dash their brains out; by this means they secured that these infants went to heaven."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Bertrand Russell&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Holocaust, by D. Stannard &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Inquisition remained active until 1834, especially in Central and South America, where "heathen" natives were tortured and burned for crimes against the true faith, such as, "not believing in it". &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Holocaust, by D. Stannard&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christianity in the Americas: &lt;b&gt;60 million Native Americans had been exterminated by the end of the 16th century itself. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For instance, good Christians from Spain&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles ... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Holocaust, by D.Stannard &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christians went around burning down libraries of the Indians of Central America, demolishing shrines and burning books Convert or die: 19th century Christian missionaries exterminated the Californian Indians in the most gruesome manner. More on the horrendous history of Christianity in the Americas&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Africa: Christian slavery and colonialism&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Facts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Estimates vary, but somewhere between 20 million and 60 million people were captured, enslaved and brought to the Americas. Millions more died in the slave raids, in the dungeons and in the Middle Passage.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Through slavery's darkest passages - Ghana's slave dungeons - Essence, Special Travel Section, October 1992&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;Slave castles, with central Churches, were often built &lt;b&gt;over the ancient shrines of the pagan &lt;/b&gt;Africans  Slave ships often bore appropriate names, like those of the devout slave trader John Hawkins: Jesus, Solomon and John the Baptist. (&lt;i&gt;-- Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;)The Africans who survived the journey, were often worked to death:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"The policy of the slaveholder," says Dr. W.E.B. DuBois, "was to kill off the negroes by overwork and buy more."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Christianity Slavery and Labour, by Chapman Cohen&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This was even more so in South America:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Brazil and the Caribbean were graveyards for Africans and their descendants.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Slavery, 1619-1877, Peter Kolchin&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Bible was used to justify slavery and led to&lt;b&gt; racism&lt;/b&gt;: the Curse of Ham, supposedly applicable to Africans, was the reason they "deserved to be slaves". Chuches also went so far as arguing that slavery was all for the best of the pagan Africans:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;...the most widespread and effective religious argument was the simple suggestion that slavery was part of God's plan to expose a hitherto heathen people to the blessings of Christianity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Slavery, 1619-1877, by Peter Kolchin&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As Presbyterian minister (and Georgia slave owner) Charles C. Jones argued in The Religious Instruction of the Negroes (1842), blacks "were placed under our control...not exclusively for our benefit but theirs also," so they could receive moral and religious uplift; "we cannot disregard this obligation thus divinely imposed, without forfeiting our humanity, our gratitude, our consistency, and our claim to the spirit of christianity itself."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Slavery, 1619-1877, by Peter Kolchin&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In 18th century France, Voltaire estimated that the [Catholic] Church held between 50,000 and 60,000 slaves.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Christianity, Slavery and Labour, by Chapman Cohen&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Society for the Propagation of the Gospel employed slaves on its estates in the West Indies, and there were 80,000 black slaves in London as late as 1760 (Independent Review, October 1905). The American Churches, Anglican, Methodist, and Baptist, owned 600,000 slaves, and "the authority of nearly all the leading denominations was against the abolitionists," says J. Macy in the chief and impartial recent American work (The Anti-Slavery Crusade, 1920, p. 74). The Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian authorities, he shows, expelled any minister who advocated abolition.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- A Rationalist Encyclopaedia, Joseph McCabe&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Find out &lt;b&gt;who did and who (predictably) did not &lt;/b&gt;agitate for abolishing African slavery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Fact&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;During the &lt;b&gt;brutal&lt;/b&gt; Christian colonisation of the Congo, which was defended by the Catholic Church,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As many as 10 million Congolese are estimated to have died as a result of executions, unfamiliar diseases and hunger.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Leopold reigns for a day in Kinshasa - The Guardian, February 4, 2005&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This and much more on the history of Christianity in Africa&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Christian colonisation of Asia&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In China, Japan, Thailand: Here Christians of the Catholic Church implemented&lt;b&gt; forced conversions, persecuted the followers of Buddhism and other pre-Christian religions, and attempted political take-overs&lt;/b&gt; of these countries. Christian converts became traitors to their own government, like those of ancient Rome had been. Fortunately, the end result in each case was that these countries expelled the Christian missionaries and closed themselves off to foreign (Christian) relations entirely.In Vietnam the situation was much the same, except that it did not succeed in expelling the missionaries, for which it paid the price later.In India and Sri Lanka, Christians from Portugal &lt;b&gt;destroyed hundreds of indigenous shrines and built Churches over them&lt;/b&gt; (as usual). Once again, they went about &lt;b&gt;violently converting&lt;/b&gt; the local population &lt;b&gt;and exterminating &lt;/b&gt;any of the Hindus and Buddhists who did not convert. In India,&lt;b&gt; Saint &lt;/b&gt;Francis Xavier got the Inquisition started in Goa which terrorised, tortured and gruesomely murdered many of the pagans. Read the details on the ruthless Christian colonisation of Asia&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;The Pacific&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Fact&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In thirty years of despicable &lt;b&gt;missionary rule&lt;/b&gt; in Tahiti, only 6,000 of the indigenous people remained from an initial 200,000. [The Missionaries, by Norman Lewis]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Protestant missionaries then carried out the same conversion/extermination campaign in the rest of the Pacific.&lt;br /&gt;Christians in Hawaii, had massacred most of the population:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the 1860s,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had&lt;b&gt; reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more&lt;/b&gt;, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- American Holocaust, by D. Stannard&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More on Christian genocide in the Pacific&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Missions and colonialism&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Teurer Segen - Christliche Mission und Kolonialismus by Gert von Paczensky &lt;/i&gt;("Costly blessing - Christian mission and colonialism"),&lt;br /&gt;translation of the book summary and review at KirchenKritik:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Missions were in league with colonialism,&lt;/b&gt; often even gruesomely so.&lt;br /&gt;They &lt;b&gt;helped to destroy old cultures, to uproot people, to divide families and entire populations.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;They supported and approved of a system that let &lt;b&gt;countless of millions in three continents be reduced to poverty, bringing them hunger and sickness.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the misdevelopment of Latin America, Africa and Asia - [which is] the major problem in the present - &lt;b&gt;missionaries and Churches of all persuasions and confessions (denominations)&lt;/b&gt; were complicit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Review from KirchenKritik:&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This work lacks neither facts, nor references nor information handed down from the time of mission-work and colonialism.&lt;br /&gt;It is established that the &lt;b&gt;Church has to answer for the main share of the guilt of the impoverishment of the present 3rd world.&lt;/b&gt; Yes, one can even go so far and assert that without the Church everything would have turned out differently!&lt;br /&gt;In light of this book, the numerous speeches of Pope John Paul II in impoverished countries appear hypocritical and cynical.&lt;br /&gt;Moving historical literature at it's best. Parts of it are not for weak nerves.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;More on this&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Anti-Semitism before Nazism&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. God always hated the Jews. It is incumbent upon all Christians to hate the Jews.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Saint John Chrysostom, Church Father, 4th-5th century C.E.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More of the highly anti-Semitic statements of the pious early fathers of the Church, Popes and Reformers. The centuries of Christian preaching against Jews was founded on the Bible - the New Testament in this case. Martin Luther's book On the Jews and their Lies inspired Nazis and Christian Churches in Nazi Germany. The Church invented most of the means of persecuting Jews which the Nazis later used All the early non-Jewish Christian sects, like the Marcionites, were anti-Semitic.As soon as the Greco-Roman empire was wrested from pagan hands, the Christians started persecuting the Jews. Christian Roman Emperor Justinian was the one&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;who legalized the burning and pillaging of Jewish synagogues by Christian bishops and monks (often canonized later). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then in the Middle Ages, a great many extermination campaigns were enacted by Christians.In the large scale pogroms of Orthodox Christian Russia and Ukraine, at least several hundreds of thousands of Jews were exterminated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"But we must never forget that the Jews have crucified our Master [Jesus] and have shed His precious blood."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Czar Alexander III, affirming the eternal Christian doctrine&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Fact&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion, in which Jews supposedly conspired to bring down the western Christian nations, is a Russian&lt;b&gt; forgery:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If The Protocols appeared outlandish, it may have been because they were a Russian forgery plagiarized from a 1869 German novel which, itself, was plagiarized from a 1864 French political satire. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The forger was Czarist agent Sergei Nilius whose work was designed to deflect the misery of Nicholas II's policies onto a scapegoat: the Jews of Russia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This forgery is still used by many pious Christians as additional "proof" of why Jews are to be hated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More on anti-Semitism before Nazism&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Roma (Gypsies)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When Gypsies first appeared, Christianity had shaped the doctrine of war between light and dark and personified the white angels against the black devils. To the church the Gypsy culture was non-acceptable and their dark skin exemplified evil and inferiority. Hence in western Christian Europe the dark-skinned Gypsies became victims of prejudice as a result of this Christian doctrine.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Gypsies: a persecuted race, by William A. Duna&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The persona of the Romani as non-white, non-Christian outsider became incorporated into Christian European folklore, which served to justify and encourage the prejudice against him. Like Asahuerus, the Jew doomed to wander through eternity because he refused to allow Jesus to rest on his way to Calvary, Romanies were accused of forging the nails with which Christ was crucified. And while Jews were accused of drinking the blood of Christian babies in hidden rites to which no outsider was privy, Romanies were likewise charged with stealing and even eating those babies. Parallelling even more closely the Asahuerus myth is the belief that the original sin of the Romanies was their refusal to give Mary and the baby Jesus shelter during their flight from King Herod into Egypt (Scheier, 1925, vol. II, p. 77).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The roots of Anti-Gypsyism: To the Holocaust and After, by Ian Hancock&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course, the Roma were nowhere near the Middle-East in the 1st century CE, and this libel was but another Christian fiction. Like Jews, the Roma were also attacked in sermons. Monasteries in Eastern-Europe kept large numbers of Roma as slaves until the the 19th century. Roma who converted to the Christian (and Islamic) faiths were not accepted or if they were, then they were still treated as outcasts.The anti-Roma prejudice which had been created and had long been fostered by Christianity would result in their persecutions and exterminations in Germany, Croatia, Hungary, Romania and other countries during the Nazi era. In fact, the same continues today. More on Romany and anti-Gypsyism&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Fascism including Nazism&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Nazism in Germany&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nazi Germany was a very Christian country. Its anti-Semitism was rooted in Church teachings:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;according to historian Dagobert Runes,&lt;b&gt; Hitler's methods were actually modelled on the Christian&lt;/b&gt; one:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everything Hitler did to the Jews, all the horrible, unspeakable misdeeds, had already been done to the smitten people before by the Christian churches ... &lt;b&gt;The isolation of the Jews into ghetto camps, the wearing of the yellow spot, the burning of Jewish books and finally, the burning of the people - Hitler learned it all from the church&lt;/b&gt;. However, the church burned Jewish women and children alive, while Hitler granted them a quicker death, choking them first with gas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And the anti-Semite Luther had written On the Jews and their Lies which inspired the Nazis as well as the Christian clergy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"If I had to baptise a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words 'I baptise thee in the name of Abraham'."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Martin Luther, "Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor" by Peter F. Weiner&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thus, it's not surprising that inspired by the the New Testament and centuries of Church tradition, Saints and Church fathers, Popes and Reformers, the clergy in Nazi Germany merely added to the existing Christian anti-Semitic literature:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bishop Martin Sasse of Thuringia, a leading Protestant churchman ... edited a brochure for his ministers at the end of November 1938 titled, "Martin Luther and the Jews: do Away with Them!" He quoted extensively from Luther's book "On the Jews and their lies." (&lt;i&gt;Wollenberg, p.73&lt;/i&gt;)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jew was created by God to act the traitor everywhere.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Civilta Cattolica, a Jesuit monthly publication, cited in John Cornwell's "Hitler's Pope" &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All German Churches, except the Confessing Church, were in line with Nazi Germany and its policies. Many clergymen and pious Church-goers were prominent Nazis. Most Germans were members of the mainstream German Churches, whilst the Confessing Church had but small numbers of members.The Catholic and Protestant Churches and their congregations actively helped the Nazi state in hunting down Jews. Both furnished racial data about Christian members in their own congregations who had Jewish ancestry. Neither Church accepted such Christians:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After the Nazi party took over, Protestant Churches began to exclude Jews from jobs and schools and later to exclude baptized racial Jews from the Land churches and to force them to live completely by themselves. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Catholic priests across Germany became part of an anti-Semitic attestation bureaucracy, supplying details of blood purity through marriage and baptism registries in accordance with the Nazi Nuremberg laws which distinguished Jews from non-Jews&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In fact, the German churches&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;advocated &lt;/b&gt;composing an "Aryan Paragraph" in church synods that would prevent non-aryans from joining the Church, which of course included Jews. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The small, dissenting Confessing Church did not oppose Hitler for his anti-Semitic policies. Many of the prominent Pastors in this Church were self-admitted anti-Semites. It turns out they opposed the "Aryan Paragraph" in order to retain Jewish converts, but&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For Jews who did not convert, they held strong anti-Semitic feelings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Catholic and Protestant Churches helped in the murder of people with disabilities.&lt;br /&gt;There is nothing new in this, as the Church had for centuries taught that people with physical disabilities were devils and those with mental disabilities were possessed by devils. Throughout the Middle-Ages, handicapped children would be brutally murdered, often by their own Christian parents.Protestant and Catholic Churches used forced labourers during the Third Reich Strangely, Christians today are surprised when faced with such facts, forgetting how, throughout Christianity's history, Churches, clergy and everyday Christians had been involved in extermination campaigns against Jews and others, murdered people with disabilities and had kept slaves for centuries.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Read more about Nazi Germany&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Nazism in wartime Yugoslavia&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is a matter of historical record that the Croatian Catholic Church was closely entangled with the Ustashas. In the early years of World War II, Catholic priests oversaw forced conversions of Orthodox Serbs under the aegis of the Ustasha state; Franciscan friars distributed Ustasha propaganda. Several high Catholic officials in Yugoslavia were later indicted for war crimes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- A vow of silence - U.S. News and World Report, March 30, 1998&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"Kill all Serbs. And when you finish come here, to the Church, and I will confess you and free you from sin."(54)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- Father Srecko Peric of the Gorica Monastery, reassuring his fellow Ustashi prior to a massacre &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Ustashe were the Catholic Nazis of CroatiaThey ruthlessly exterminated about 750,000 people: mostly Orthodox Christian Serbs and several tens of thousands of Roma and Jews.In the Catholic Independent state of Croatia that was formed during the Nazi era, clergy took part in great numbers in the massacres.The Italian fascists and even the German Nazis were horrified at how gruesomely they murdered their victims.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Croatian clergy brought the Ustashe to power&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While the Catholic Press in the country kept praising the rising Fascism in Europe:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Monasteries, parish houses, cathedrals, Franciscan high schools, seminaries, etc., throughout Croatia doubled as meeting places, recruiting centers, arms depots and staging areas for Croatian fascism and terror in the years prior to the war.&lt;br /&gt;... Among the very first armed divisions of the Ustasha army were numerous Catholic priests. The military exploits of one priest, Ilija Tomas of Klepac, were hailed in the Croatian fascist publication "Hrvatski Narod" on July 25, 1941.(21) Another Catholic publication "Nedelja" praised the military exploits of dozens of priests, especially those in monastic orders such as the Franciscan Radovan Glavas, and the priest Ivan Miletic who led Croatian fascists in joint battle with Wehrmacht forces.&lt;br /&gt;... The entire Catholic press in this period in Croatia was thoroughly pro-fascist, racist and supportive of the elimination of the "minorities." [the Serbs, Jews and Roma]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;-- The Vatican's Holocaust, by former BBC commentator Avro Manhattan&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Christian priests create racial theories again&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ustashi's leading racist theorists were Catholic clergy. ... priests were among the intellectual godfathers of Croatian fascism and racism.&lt;br /&gt;... anti-Semitism in Yugoslavia was almost entirely the product of Catholic propaganda after World War I.&lt;br /&gt;... The Catholic Press preached racial theories - e.g. the theory that the Croats were not of Slav descent, but were Gothic German. One of the founders of this race theory was a well-known Catholic priest, Kerubin Segvic, who as far back as 1931 wrote a book entitled, The Gothic Descendance of the Croats, with a view to creating racial odium against the Slavs, which was synonymous with "Orthodox."&lt;br /&gt;-&lt;i&gt;- The Vatican's Holocaust, by Avro Manhattan&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Vatican and communism united after WWII to &lt;b&gt;whitewash history.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More on Nazism in Yugoslavia during WWII&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;, by &lt;i&gt;Barry Lituchy &lt;/i&gt;describes how it is that the Vatican got away scott-free from its active involvement in genocide, especially in Croatia. How, through deflection and obfuscation, it has absolved itself of all crimes pertaining to genocide, restricting its "errors" merely to "not speaking out" against what was happening to the Jews. Though it is well-known that the Catholic Church was involved in tracking down Jews for Nazi Germany, and involved in Nazism in general (see ), it has carefully kept silent about its . Among other things, Pius XI and Pacelli (Pope XII) arranged the with dictator Mussolini and the with Germany. The Pope was directly responsible for the dissolution of Germany's parliamentary system which gave dictatorial powers to Hitler. Pope John Paul II's intended beatification of Pius XII was to make the public believe Pius' conduct was above board, when in fact it was wholly the opposite. on these wartime Popes, including that deal with the Papal involvement in Nazism and Fascism. Croatia's Nazi (Ustashi) leader Pavelic is another example: Much Nazi blood money made it into the Vatican, but not out. Further details&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Source&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm"&gt;http://freetruth.50webs.org/Index.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/myth-of-saint-thomas-india-visit.html"&gt;Saint Thomas India Visit&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/02/valentines-day-origin.html"&gt;Valentines's  Day - Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2014/06/christian-history-myth-and-reality.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>0</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-3347048144835278458</guid><pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2014 05:15:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2014-04-12T15:41:31.520+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Abhira</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ananda</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Andhra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Brihatpalyas</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Chutu</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ikshavakus</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Indonesia</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Matharas</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pallava</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Salankayana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">samudragupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Telugu</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vengi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">vishnukundin</category><title>Reign of Salankayana</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
Salankayana ruled from 3rd century AD to 5th century AD. They were known as Salankayana after the Gotra name. They were the feudatories of Ikshvakus. They Ruled near vengi area, with Vengi (Eluru) as the capital. Salankayana is another of the Phantom kingdoms of Andhra for Indologists. Their date is fixed based on Samudra Gupta inscription mention of Hastivarman of Vengi. What we are looking here is to know more about them and also fix their dates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us see Salankayana rulers first. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Kings&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Deva Varma (Founder)&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ruled in last quarter of 3rd Century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
Performed Asvamedha Yagna (320AD)&lt;br /&gt;
Might have killed Jayavarma of Brihatpalayanas(Speculation), Annexed territories north of krishna river from Jayavarma&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Hastivarma I&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Succeeded Deva Varma&lt;br /&gt;
Might have Established friendly relations with Pallavas.(Speculation)&lt;br /&gt;
Built number of Temples&lt;br /&gt;
Established Chaturvidyasala (centre of Vedic learning)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Nandi varma I&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Known for Valour&lt;br /&gt;
Known for giving gifts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Hastivarma II&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Defeated by Samudragupta &lt;br /&gt;
Mentioned in Allahabad Pillar Inscription&lt;br /&gt;
To check amibitious brother Achandavarma, he appointed his son skandavarman as yuvaraja, but however his son died.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Chandavarman&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
chandavarman succeeded Hastivarma II and ruled for some years.&lt;br /&gt;
Komarti plates Ganjam Dist given in sixth year of Chandavarman, talks about his son Vijaya Nandi varman and earlier ruler Devavarman&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Nandivarma II&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
son of Achandavarma Ruled for some years, but was put to end by Vishnukundinas.&lt;br /&gt;
Issued Kolleru Plates&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Grants&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Ellore Prakrit grant  &lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Devavarman. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Kollair grant &lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Candavarman&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivarman, Eldest son of Candavarman&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Peddavegi grant &lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hastivarman&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivarman I, Son of Hastivarman&lt;br /&gt;
Candavarman, son of  Nandivarman I&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivarman II, eldest  son of Candavarman. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Kanteru grant - II&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivarman&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Geneology&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Various scholars have debated and arrived at this Genealogy. &lt;br /&gt;
Devavarma&lt;br /&gt;
Hastivarma&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivarma I&lt;br /&gt;
Candavarma&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivarma II&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Name&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Salankayana was a vedic Rishi and his gotra was adopted by this dynasty of Vengi. However they are simply called Salankayana not as Salankayana gotra. The Word Salankayana indicates Nandi, the bull of Shiva. So the crest of Salankayana was connected with name of their family not of Gotra.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Similarity in names of Pallava, Brihatphalayana, Salankayana and the epithey Pitrabhakta, which bore the emblem of bull, raise the assumpton they are of same stock. But they can all be feudatories of Chutus. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Characteristics&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Salankayana's patronised vedic culture&lt;br /&gt;
Worshipped Sun. Also worshipped Shiva and Vishnu&lt;br /&gt;
During their time Hinduism spread to Neighborhood Burma and Combodia&lt;br /&gt;
Tolerant of Buddhism&lt;br /&gt;
scholars like Dignaga, Buddhapalita, Bhavaviveka propagated Buddhism without any Hurdles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Historical Records&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Panini and Patanjali&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Panini and Patanjali indicates Salankayana 
in North West India. Panini gives Salankayana twice. Once as Gotra and 
another time as ruler of place called Salankayanaka.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Ptolemy&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ptolemy locates  a tribe , the salakenoi somewhere about the oroudian mountains bordering the region of Maisoloi (Machulipatnam), showing presence of Salankayana in Vengi around Ist Century AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Kausambi&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A Salankayana minister named Bhutila was either stationed or had relatives in Kousambi as per the  prakrit grant found in Kausambi. Let us see the Prakrit grant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Terracota Figure in Nagpur&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A terracota seal of Salankayana has been found in Adam near Nagpur by I K Sharma who conducted excavations at Peddavegi.  A Carnelian Intaglio(Pendent) near a stupa of 4th century AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Aparashaila Sect&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aparashaila  a Buddhist  sect got established in First century BC. Now the Vijaya Nandivarma or Nandivarma II establised the a vihara for the sect in his regime. So his regime has to be post  this period. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Allahabad Pillar Inscription&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Allahabad pillar inscription says that Salankayana king ruled from Vaingeyaka (Lord of Vengi). &lt;br /&gt;
Now going to Allahabad inscription, we have hastivarma of Vengi, Burnell identifies Hastivarma of Allahabad inscription with  Hastivarma of Salankayana.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Ellore Plates&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Devavarman Ellore plates given in 13th year talks about Asvameda. Eventhough grant talks about Asvameda sacrifice. The Inscription is in Sanskrit.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Hastivarma , Nandivarma I and Candavarma&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now Hastivarma and Nandivarma I does not give any grants. Candavarman name is found in Kollair and Peddagavi plates. So we know very little about these kings. Hastivarma is defined in peddagavi plates as winner of many battles. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Neighborhood&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Let us see who are the neighbors of Salankayana&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Andhra Ikshvaku Reign&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vashistaputra sri Santamula was the first important king of Andhra Ikshvakus and he seems to have asserted independence may be from Chutus. His son Virapurushadata gave his daughter to Banavasi Prince. He took his wife from Saka ruler of Ujjain. We know around 278AD, Andhra Ikshvaku regime ended. Ikshvakus ruled for 100 years.  Ikshvaku followed vedic faith, but were staunch supporters of Buddhism. The Same seems to be case with Salankayana. Salankayana takes the same titles as Ikshvakus.  This may indicate they are roughly of same period. May be Buddhist influence.  Or they may have replaced Ikshvakus. Salankayana may be feudatory of Andhra Ikshavakus.   Pallava Branch led by Bappa succeeded Ikshavakus in south of Krishna. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Brihatpalayana&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Brihat (Vastness) + Palayana (Moving). &lt;br /&gt;
The Brihatpalayanas ruled the Krishna district with their capital as Pithunda near Machilipatnam. The Hathigumpha inscription describes that this city has been destroyed by Kharavela [180 BCE] of Kalinga. The city of Pithunda is referred to as metropolis in one of Ptolemy's work. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jayavarma, the only king known of the dynasty ruled Krishna district with Pithunda as his capital between A.D. 270-285. A princess of his family was married to the Andhra Ikshvaku king.  A copper plate grant issued by Jayavarma was discovered at Kondamudi, near Tenali at around A.D.280. The grant is in the form of an order issued by Jayavarma from his victorious camp at Kudura(Guduru near Machilipatnam) to the governor of Kuduru ahara(district). It pertains to the grant of land in favour of a number of Brahmins. The charter issued in Prakrit describes Jayavarma as the devotee of Maheswara and calls him Raja. Nothing is known about the relations of the Brihatpalayanas with the neighbouring kingdom of the Ikshvakus or Pallavas or Salankayanas. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pallavas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Names of Pallavas and Salankayanas were similar.  The Emblem of seated bull is found in both grants. Six generations of Salankayana and pallavas do not acknowledge each other and they never come in conflict with each other. Earliest grants of both dynasties are in Prakrit and later in Sanskrit. Both belong to Bharadvaj gotra. While Salankayana worshipped shiva in the form of Chitra Radhaswami, Pallavas are agni worshippers.  The Same way there is no Ikshvaku- pallava conflicts.  Most of the the sound Indian Dynasties are from Naga Line, so Bull is one of their emblems. So we can't read much into this symbol. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have Pallava record Mangadur grant of simhavarman assigned to middle of fifth century donating land in vengo rastra. So that might be time that Salankayana rule has ended. But we cannot say that Pallavas ended the rule, as there is not mention of Salankayana rule being ended by Pallavas. We also cannot give a long period of Pallava occupation of Vengi, as there is none to record. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Vishnukundin&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Around Same time or little later, we have vishnukundin Madhavavarman I extending kingdom to vengi. Hereagain as we have seen in Vishnukundin Article does mention Salankayana or Vishnukundin ending the reign of Salankayana There is no mention of any salankayana or their rule in the inscriptions.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Ananda Gotrikas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Looking at Gorantla and Mattepad records, experts have come to following conclusions. Ananda Kings ruled from Guntur. Known Kings were Kandara(Krishna), Attivarman(Hastivarman), Domodavarman. They have been placed in 3rd century AD. The inscriptions are written in Sanskrit with Kings names in Prakrit. Their flag is similar to Kadambas. Where they liberated with Mayurasarma wars with pallavas. They Claim their lord is Lord of Vegavati. That may indicate Salankayana.  The characters of the inscriptions are similar to Salanakayana. So we can say that Salankayana is the lord of Ananda Gotrikas.  Now Ananda Gotrikas is said have defeated Ikshvaku in the battle of Dhanyakataka.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Matharas Dynasty&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matharas dynasty started in the early part of 4th century AD around Mahendra region. Vishakavarman was the first king of Matharas dynasty. Umavarman  extended the kingdom to whole of Kalinga around  in the middle of 4th century AD and shifted capital to Simhapuram in Srikakulam district . His son Saktivarman extended the kingdom from Mahanadi to Krishna.  Saktivarman shifted captial to Pistapuram. The Dynasty came to end with fight between Pitrabhaktas, Vashistas and Matharas to the close of 5th century AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Indonesian Records&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A new Dynasty of Tarumanagara was established in Salakanagara in Indonesia in 358AD.  This dyansty has its origin in Salankayana Dynasty from Vengi. Maharshi Rajadirajaguru Jayasingawarman established the kingdom after marrying the local sundanese princess. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Name Salakanagara&amp;nbsp;  means silver in sanskrit.  This kingdom was established by Indian merchants settlements in western Java around 130 AD. My opinion is that the name could have been due to trading with Salankayana. Now with collapse of Salankayana the rulers find refuge with the same people who got settled. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we take this information into view. We can say that the the Salankayana dyansty ended rule around 358 AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Dating discussion &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aparashaila  a Buddhist  sect got established in First century BC. Vijaya nandivarman established a Vihara for this sect. So definitely the king is post first century BC.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From Ptolemy accounts, it is clear that Salankayana were ruling at Vengi around 2nd century AD.  They should had extensive sea trade, so as to be known to Ptolemy and also colony of traders who took the name of devavarman to Indonesia. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Around 250 AD. Chutu empire disintegrated. Pallavas inherited much of South India due to marital alliance with Chutus.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Around 350AD. Pallavas empire fractured. Kadambas, Gangas in Karnataka and others also took piece of cake. Pallavas were put out of Andhras by Ananda Gotrikas. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you take out the Samudra Gupta Alahabad inscription. Start of Historical Salankayana is around  First Century AD.  Devavarma is a prominent ruler. With coming of Hastivarman the geneology become clear. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They may be worshppers of Siva and later changed to Vishnu worshippers, as evidenced by the Bull emblem and names like Nandivarman.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vishnukundin dyansty came into being around 5th century AD. They ruled from 450AD to 615 AD. Madhavavarman I who came around 470 AD extended his kingdom to Vengi. He does not seems have encountered Salankayana there either as friend or foe. He mentions himself as the son in law of Vakatakas and nothing else about vakatakas. Last branch of Vakataka dynasty ended around his time. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have Simhavarman Pallava donating land in Vengo rastra and around same time Madhavavarman Extended his kingdom to Vengi. So Around 450AD , there is no Salankayana in Vengi. Both don't Acknowledge Salankayana presence in the area. Salankayana is a famous local dynasty and if they have ended their rule. Both would have mentioned salankayana was defeated by them. So we have to conclude that salankayana were not there around 450AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Salankayana Timeline&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Let us try to reconstruct the turn of events.&lt;br /&gt;
Around 278 AD. Andhra Ikshvakus of Krishna Valley were put to end by combined Abhiras, Salankayana, Brihatpalayas. Brihatpalyas are ruling koduru or Masulipatnam. salankyana are ruling in Vengi. Pallavas in Guntur. Each of them got a piece part of territory and ruled independently. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Aound 350 AD. Ananda Gotrikas over threw Pallavas out of Guntur.  Kadambas , Gangas, Banas threw pallavas out of Karnataka. Saktivarman of Matharas dynasty in Kalinga extended his kingdom to Krishna. And If we take references from  indonesian history , then we can say that Salankayana rule has ended around 360 AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Around 450 AD in Andhra. Pallavas occupied south of Krishna and Vishnukundin occupied North of Krishna. Vishnukundin expands to Vengi and we find no mention of Salankayana there.  So Salankaya were not there around 450 AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From the accounts of Panini and Patanjali, we can say that Salankayana is an ancient dyansty. They may be Naga with saivite devotion. The settled around Vengi in the first century AD, as the feudatories of Chutu Satakarnis as the keeper of Eastern sea board as evidenced by Ptolemy. As chutus are Vaisnavite we have change in religion of Salankayana to vaishnavite.  They were also feudatories of Ikshvakus. The Chutus went down in 250 AD and  Ikshvakus went down around 270AD. Soon we have Salankayana ruler Devavarman proclaiming himself to be Maharaja.  The Salankayana Dynasty comes to end around 350 AD and branch of the dyansty migrates to Indonesia and sets up a kingdom there.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Source&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;THE  SUCCESSORS OF THE SATAVAHANAS BY  DINESCHANDRA SIRCAR, M.A., PH.D &lt;br /&gt;Buddhist Remains in Andhra and the History of Andhra Between 225 and 610 A.D. By K. R. Subramanian&lt;br /&gt;Vakataka - Gupta Age Circa 200-550 A.D.  edited by Ramesh Chandra Majumdar, Anant Sadashiv Altekar&amp;nbsp;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-satavahana-andhra-myth.html"&gt;Satavahana Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/reign-of-vishnukundin.html"&gt;Reign of VishnuKundin &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-is-kalinganagara.html"&gt;Kalinganagara&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-pallavas.html"&gt;Pallava Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/origin-of-ikshvaku-dynasty.html"&gt;Ikshvaku Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/04/origin-of-word-telugu.html"&gt;Telugu name Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/07/who-is-trivara-deva-panduvamsis-reign.html" target="_blank"&gt;Who is Trivara deva? : Reign of Panduvamsis &lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/controversy-regarding-antiquity-of.html"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/controversy-regarding-antiquity-of.html"&gt;Srisailam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html" target="_blank"&gt;Topics &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2014/03/reign-of-salankayana.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>2</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-9015537001145297081</guid><pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2014 08:24:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2015-05-08T10:06:39.466+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Adisankara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ashoka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Avatar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">china</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Indology</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Jain</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Lanka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mahavamsa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Purana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Shankara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Tibet</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vishnu</category><title>Is Gautama Buddha Avatar of Vishnu</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
Why does Purana and Buddhist Chronology does not synchronize with each other. While they seem to be saying about the same person. When Analyzing this question. It becomes apparent that we have merged two Buddhas. The Adi Buddha or Avatar Buddha of Vishnu and Shakya Buddha&amp;nbsp; or Gautama Buddha into One. Let us Analyze&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us&amp;nbsp; summarize what we have regarding each Buddha&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Adi Buddha&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Adi Buddha is avatar of Vishnu was born on 1887BC to Mother Anjana in Kikata (Bodh Gaya). &lt;br /&gt;
The Adi Buddha Established the Philosophy of Ahimsa, Non Violence. He preached against ritual Animal Sacrifices that has crept into Vedic Hinduism. He emphasized the divine in all beings and divinity of all souls arousing compassion for all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicQDw49CaG_oS4NKgNr0y4N6FZ9mXr21M_dhKS8COEHacCn-QfDwhQTeMUVsjbkXjAIdJQzlkwBpriQKwn1bl-oh444aFAscztmSpTCR3Cou8-oKgR9YyoiV4IzB3t8Df1DIQYeWxI_u5n/s1600/Standing+Buddha+-+Mathura.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicQDw49CaG_oS4NKgNr0y4N6FZ9mXr21M_dhKS8COEHacCn-QfDwhQTeMUVsjbkXjAIdJQzlkwBpriQKwn1bl-oh444aFAscztmSpTCR3Cou8-oKgR9YyoiV4IzB3t8Df1DIQYeWxI_u5n/s1600/Standing+Buddha+-+Mathura.jpg" height="320" width="216" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Gautama Buddha&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Siddhartha was was born around 560BC in Royal Family of Suddhodana  and Mayadevi in Lumbini in Nepal. Siddhartha received his name Gautama from his spiritual Master Gautama Muni, who belongs to Kapila dynasty(as per Sundarananda Charita). He left home his royal comforts to find enlightenment. He went to Bodh Gaya to meditate and got enlightenment. &lt;br /&gt;
Gautama Buddha philosophy that is Monist (the God, is inert, nonactive and without any characteristic) and that reaching the same inert and non-active state through Nirvana is the goal. For attaining freedom from all suffering and end cycle of rebirths, one should attain Nirvana. Gautama Buddha is the propagator of Bahyatmavada, Jnanatmavada and Sunyavada, three pillars of Atheism. He Went to Bodhgaya to medidate because of its spiritual potency as the birthplace of Adi Buddha.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Buddhist Texts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Threvada Texts&lt;/i&gt; refer to six Preceding Buddhas (Those who have been awakened) as Vipasyin, Sikin, krakuccanda, Konagamara and Kashyapa, also they say Maitreya as the Buddha of the future. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Amara Simha &lt;/i&gt;Buddhist scholar, who wrote Amarakosha gives eighteen names of Vishnu avatara including the name Sugato (Which Shankara calls Buddha) and seven names of Shakya Simha Buddha without any mention of Sugato. So we can even argue that Shankara talks about avatar Buddha not Shakya Buddha. Amarakosha states the Lord Buddha is also known as Samanta Bhadra, whereas Gautama Buddha is a human being.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In&lt;i&gt; Lalita Vistara&lt;/i&gt;, it is described how Gautama Buddha medidated on the same spot as the predecessor Buddha. The original name of Bodhgaya is Kikata, after Gautama attained enlightment there, it came to be known as Buddha gaya.  Even today the rituals of worship is preformed by sannyasis of Shankaracharya sect. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Lankavatara Sutra&lt;/i&gt;, the famous buddhist work says that Ravana King of Lanka first worshipped Vishnu incarnation Buddha then successive and future Buddha.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Analysing Buddhist texts like&lt;i&gt; Prajna-Paramita sutra&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Astasahastrika prajna&lt;/i&gt;- &lt;i&gt;paramita sutra&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Sata-Shastrika Prajna&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Pramita Sutra&lt;/i&gt;,&lt;i&gt; Lalita Vistara&lt;/i&gt; shows three categories of Buddha namely&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Human Buddhas&lt;/u&gt;: Like Gautama, who came to be known as Buddha after enlightment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Bodhisattva Buddhas&lt;/u&gt;: Personalities like Samanta Bhadraka who were born enlightened.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Adi(Original-First) Buddha&lt;/u&gt;: the Avatar of Vishnu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2xUETImny_90dkAeZanVDGlYnpx_-03hD2Pmtp3jX3NVEQ_ohFVcB4Mydz6UttboJDZwjP-Jej1DlszoQyZ5iZAbby2ZIln7rD4A3SMqhjrgS8WEPJZRu6w-5MuSKI5DM9oz3uNhhZuey/s1600/Bodhgaya+Bodh+Statue.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2xUETImny_90dkAeZanVDGlYnpx_-03hD2Pmtp3jX3NVEQ_ohFVcB4Mydz6UttboJDZwjP-Jej1DlszoQyZ5iZAbby2ZIln7rD4A3SMqhjrgS8WEPJZRu6w-5MuSKI5DM9oz3uNhhZuey/s1600/Bodhgaya+Bodh+Statue.jpg" height="240" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Hindu Texts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Bhagavata Purana &lt;/i&gt;says  "At the commencement of the Kāli-yuga will Vishnu become incarnate in Kikata, under the name of Buddha, the son of Jina, for the purpose of deluding the enemies of the gods."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Puranas&lt;/i&gt; say that Adi Buddha was born in Ikshvaku Dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;How Two were merged.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Adi Shankara, in discussion with others treated both of them as one person and did not discriminate between the two. Shankara Sunya philosophy is similar to Buddhist Nirvana. With his Mayavadha philosophy he not only stopped rise of Buddhism in India, but also started its decline.&amp;nbsp; However acharyas who came after him did not agree and they came with corrections for clear vedic View&lt;br /&gt;
Vishnuswami -&lt;i&gt;Suddha Advaitha&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ramanuja - &lt;i&gt;Vasistadvaitha&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nimbarka - &lt;i&gt;Dvaita Advaita &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Madhva - &lt;i&gt;Dvaitha &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Chaitanya - &lt;i&gt;Acintaya Bheda Bheda&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Historical Accounts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Adi Buddha&lt;/u&gt; is contemproary of Srenika(Sunika) whose father was 
Hemajit or Kshemajit or Kshetroja or Ksetrauja. Son of Srenika is Kunika. 
His son is Dharshaka.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Gautama Buddha&lt;/u&gt; is contemproary of Bimbisara(Son of Bhatiya or Bhattiya), King of Magadha with Capital at Rajgirh. Bimbisara made married alliances with many kings of India. His first wife Kosaladevi was the princess of Kosala, daughter of king Mahakoshal and sister of Pasendi or Prasenjit.  The marriage ended the hostility between Kosala and Magadha. Ajatsatru was Kosaladevi`s son. Bimbisara conquered Anga and send Ajatsatru as the ruler there. Champa was the capital of Anga. Bimbisara was assasinated by his son Ajathashatru.  Gautama Buddha then went to sravasti, Capital of Kosala ruled by Prasenjit. Most of the teachings come from Sravasti. Buddhist, Puranic and Jain Accounts confirm Gautama Buddha to be the contemproary of Bimbisara.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Jain scriptures&lt;/i&gt;, described King Bimbisara as a disciple of Mahavira who frequently sought his teachings. As per Jain texts, he is referred to as King Shrenika of Rajgriha (being the possessor of a large army). Bimbisara sent Jivaka to Ujjain for medical treatment of King Pradyata, the king of Avanti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Mahavamsa&lt;/i&gt; traces the Shakya dyansty to Ikshvaku dynasty and starts the dynasty with Ikshvaku.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj0cMtYQDqLXUY1RmKoFBEHCXI8IBVGMZkjVSVsNZmlKwnjyv-1rTmi7S0ooT06QJmQ76t36OZx___sBkR_b0W2jhpGqhZvrO7Vdf-YWFpKm-7XOhSRuVijJ1g-O6Yr0ro3ndydCKwSL57v/s1600/Saisunaga+and+Kalasoka+Karshapana.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj0cMtYQDqLXUY1RmKoFBEHCXI8IBVGMZkjVSVsNZmlKwnjyv-1rTmi7S0ooT06QJmQ76t36OZx___sBkR_b0W2jhpGqhZvrO7Vdf-YWFpKm-7XOhSRuVijJ1g-O6Yr0ro3ndydCKwSL57v/s1600/Saisunaga+and+Kalasoka+Karshapana.jpg" height="160" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us see the list of Contemproary kings as various religious texts&lt;b&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Puranas List&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Shishunaga(40yrs)(Desposed Pratyodya)&lt;br /&gt;
kakavarna(36yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
kshemdharman(20yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Khastrojas (40yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Bimbasara (28yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Ajatashatru (25yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Darshaka(26yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Udayin (33yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Nandivardhana (40rys)&lt;br /&gt;
Mahanandin (43yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Buddhist List&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sisunaka&lt;br /&gt;
Kalashoka (Sons Bhadrasena, Korandavarna, Mangura, Sarvanjaha, Jalika, Ubhaka, Sanjaya, Koravya, Nandivardhana and Panchamaka)&lt;br /&gt;
All 10 sons ruled simultaneously.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How Reliable is Buddhist Historical sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Indologists have been saying Puranas are not reliable, let us see how unreliable Buddhist texts are. It is from Buddhist texts that Indologists arguments come. There two schools of sources. Tibetan and Sinhala. There is Chinese source, which comes later. &lt;br /&gt;
Let us take the kings around Buddhas time&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Lankan Tradition &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Dipavamsa&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bimbisara(52yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Ajatasattu (32yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Udayabhadda (16yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Nagadasa (24yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
susunaga (10yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
kalasoka&lt;br /&gt;
Ten sons of Kalasoka (22yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Candagutta(24yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Bindusara&lt;br /&gt;
Asoka (37yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Mahavamsa&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bimbisara (52yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Ajatasattu (32yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Udayabhadda (16yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Anuruddha, Munda (8yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Nagadasaka (8yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Susunaga (18yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Kalasoka (28yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
ten sons of Kalasoka (22yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Nine Nandas (22yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Candagutta (24yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Bindusara (28yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Asoka (37yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Burmese Tradition&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bimbisara&lt;br /&gt;
Ajatasattu (35yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Udayabhadda (15yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Aururddha, Munda (9yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Nagadasaka (4yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Susunaga (32yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Kalasoka 28yrs&lt;br /&gt;
bhaddasena and 8 brothers (33yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Uggasenananda and 8 brothers (21yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
candagutta (24yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Bindusara (27yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Asoka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Tibetan Tradition&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Asokavardhana&lt;br /&gt;
Bimbisara&lt;br /&gt;
Ajatasatru&lt;br /&gt;
Ujayain or Udayibhadda&lt;br /&gt;
Munda&lt;br /&gt;
Kakavarnin&lt;br /&gt;
Sahalin&lt;br /&gt;
Tulakuel&lt;br /&gt;
Mahamandala&lt;br /&gt;
Presenjit&lt;br /&gt;
Nanda&lt;br /&gt;
Bindusara&lt;br /&gt;
Asoka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Jain Tradition&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Srenika&lt;br /&gt;
Kunika&lt;br /&gt;
Udayin&lt;br /&gt;
(Total 60yrs)&lt;br /&gt;
Nine Nandas&lt;br /&gt;
Candragupta&lt;br /&gt;
Bindusara&lt;br /&gt;
Asoka&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuBG9IwJnUbFs9AfKiPnWCHEyhZbZpE7i0dV71pr0FW0Ck0QDUPEkGW0P3cCis96LTCPwp8FPw2OdMGSk7W19PcGq5-YG97kORPUh3c4aqW8PQb7w_AUf6bZ29rfoRR5SWjnzJIblMxDmG/s1600/Mahabodhi+Temple+Bodh+Gaya.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjuBG9IwJnUbFs9AfKiPnWCHEyhZbZpE7i0dV71pr0FW0Ck0QDUPEkGW0P3cCis96LTCPwp8FPw2OdMGSk7W19PcGq5-YG97kORPUh3c4aqW8PQb7w_AUf6bZ29rfoRR5SWjnzJIblMxDmG/s1600/Mahabodhi+Temple+Bodh+Gaya.jpg" height="320" width="240" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Discussion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Buddhist dates&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1)&lt;u&gt;Sources of Buddhist:&lt;/u&gt; First Where do Buddhist sources come 
from, they are not there from time immemorial like Purana or Jain 
sources. They are from definite time frame that is after Gautama Buddha.
 Mainly after the state patronage of Buddhism. Now how does Buddhist 
dates start from Ikshvaku dynasty. They should have got from some 
source. where else Purana. These Buddhist chronologies before Buddha are
 from Purana sources. If Puranas are the source of many Buddhist dates, 
how can Indology scholars choose  to reject Puranas and take Buddhist 
sources. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2)&lt;u&gt;Indian Dates:&lt;/u&gt; Dates from Purana or Buddhist or Jain are all Indian dates. Indologists are just playing one against other. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3)&lt;u&gt;Not the Same Kings:&lt;/u&gt; Jain and Purana Chronology names does not tally with Buddhist Chronology names on contemporary kings&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4)
 &lt;u&gt;Differences within Buddhist&lt;/u&gt;: There are two main dates for Buddhists. 
One from Sinhala Buddhist and other Tibetan sources. There are two 
sources from Sinhala. That is Dipavamsa and Mahavamsa. There are 
differences between the two dates, but let us not overplay the 
differences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Tibetan Buddhist dates are more closer to Puranas date.
 But there are major differences. Such as when did Buddha lived. Date of Ashoka etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is also Burma (Myanmar), though based on Lankan 
sources has a mind of its own because it has direct contact with puranic
 sourcse.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chinese and Japanese follow Lankan, though they also have 
direct contact with puranic, so there are differences. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmVXmuDmHi8EwSulxFM6IzSRG64PDuX-ZZnforpoFav76J3jMIuTQh6XHQpqWMBwrHJzGGzN99XcrIE7wGduS4qzcgjDB333LHyql06Y23mOkpqBAnrSFuzMckfHVKSwteXwXdozcYisWl/s1600/Ajatasatru.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjmVXmuDmHi8EwSulxFM6IzSRG64PDuX-ZZnforpoFav76J3jMIuTQh6XHQpqWMBwrHJzGGzN99XcrIE7wGduS4qzcgjDB333LHyql06Y23mOkpqBAnrSFuzMckfHVKSwteXwXdozcYisWl/s1600/Ajatasatru.jpg" height="320" width="265" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Indology Confusions&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
By Combining two Buddhas Indology scholars have discredited the Purana accounts and thus Indian History. Whenever the Puranas refers Adi Buddha they will cite Gautama Buddha to discredit and vice verse.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Colonel Kennedy, argues that the Buddha of the Purana and Buddha the founder of the Buddhist system of religion have nothing in common but the name, and that the attempted identification of these two is simply the work of European scholars, who have not been sufficiently careful to collect information, and to weigh the evidence they have had before them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jacobi Believes that Kakavarna(Puranas) = Kalashoka (Sinhalese Buddhist Literature) = Udyain (Jain Literature)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Cambridge and Oxford histories of India accept 483 B.C as the date of Buddha’s nirvana. But, William Jones, on the basis of Chinese and Tibetan records infers that Buddha lived in the 11th century B.C. Historian Fleet, who makes a study of ‘Rajatarangini’, thinks that Buddha lived in the 17th century B.C. Chinese monk Fa-Hien puts Buddha’s Nirvana at 1050 B.C. These contradictory theories may confuse one altogether.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indology 
scholars just pick and choose to discredit Purana sources. The history 
that Buddha lived in the 5th century B.C was propounded by E.J Rapson 
who writes that the exact date of Buddha’s Nirvana is not known and 
hence the popularly accepted year of Buddha’s Nirvana is imaginary. 
Sastry states that Western scholars arbitrarily skipped 12 centuries of 
Indian history because their ‘hypothesis’ about Alexander’s invasion did
 not match with centuries-old Indian chronology.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
We see that Early Buddhist texts distinguishes the two Buddhas, while the later ones seem to ignored the former. The Rock Edicts of Piyadasi teachings are of Adi Buddha not Gautama Buddha. This clarification actually synchronizes the Buddhist and Purana Chronology and there seems to be no problem in merging the two once we take as two persons.  The key is not play puranic , Jain, Buddhist chronology against each other, but synchronize them. &lt;b&gt;The Conclusion is that : Gautama Buddha is not avatar of Vishnu. Avatar of Vishnu is Adi Buddha. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ol style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.stephen-knapp.com/were_there_two_buddhas.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Were There Two Buddhas   By Stephen Knapp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.bvml.org/SBBTM/mbavabad.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Modern Buddha and Vishnu Avatar Buddha are Different by Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Maharaja&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hmvp/hmvp28.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Hindu Mythology, Vedic and Puranic, by W.J. Wilkins&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.indicstudies.us/History/Chronologyproject/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;  Index to all Chronology Pages  from Indic Studies Foundation&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.jainworld.com/literature/story16.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;QUEEN CHELNA AND KING SHRENIK from Jainworld&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://trueindianhistory-kvchelam.blogspot.in/2009/08/saisunaga-dynasty-third-dynasty-of.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Saisunaga Dynasty- The Third Dynasty of Magadha after the great war. from Kota Venkata Chelam - Ancient Indian History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/britishraj/RhysDavids/chapter01.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Buddhist India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://books.google.co.in/books?id=8-TxcO9dfrcC" target="_blank"&gt;Lord Mahāvīra and His Times  By Kailash Chand Jain&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://books.google.co.in/books?id=rrh4tY3v2A4C" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;History of Ancient India: From 4250 BC to 637 AD  By J.P. Mittal&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/493/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;The dates of the Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Images&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/britishraj/Jackson2/chapter02.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;The Dynasties Before Alexander&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Wiki&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.visitindia.travel/suggested-india-tours.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Kalpadeep Holidays&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.harekrsna.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Hare Krsnas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.grifterrec.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;grifter  a splendidthing&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.katinkahesselink.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Katinka Hesselink&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-buddha-image.html"&gt;Buddha Image&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-shankara.html"&gt;Date of Shankara&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthenes Meet Chandragupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-kanishka-era.html"&gt;Kanishka Era&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/myths-of-india-by-indologists.html"&gt;India by Indologists&lt;/a&gt; &lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="color: #009900;"&gt;

&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/04/myth-of-alexander-victory-in-india.html"&gt;Alexander Invasion of India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/who-is-diodotus-greek-myth.html"&gt;Who is Diodotus&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html#.UxF6Rs5qO4o" target="_blank"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2014/03/is-gautama-buddha-avatar-of-vishnu.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicQDw49CaG_oS4NKgNr0y4N6FZ9mXr21M_dhKS8COEHacCn-QfDwhQTeMUVsjbkXjAIdJQzlkwBpriQKwn1bl-oh444aFAscztmSpTCR3Cou8-oKgR9YyoiV4IzB3t8Df1DIQYeWxI_u5n/s72-c/Standing+Buddha+-+Mathura.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>5</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-7733292261612607131</guid><pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:39:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2013-10-15T17:29:01.896+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Appar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chola</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Devaram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pallava</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pandya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ramanuja</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saint</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Saiva</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sambandhar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Siva</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sundarar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">tamil</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">thevaram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Thirupadiyam</category><title>Date of Devaram (Thevaram Trio)</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
We are looking at the Dates of Appar, Sambandhar and Sundarar  known as tevaram Trio. We are comparing  the historical dates of these saints versus claims by dravidian scholars. Let us first see at the terms Thirupadiyam and Devaram.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thirupadiyam&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The earliest epigraphical reference to the recitation of Thiruppadiyam, occurs in the middle of the 9th century, in the reign of the Pallava ruler Nandivarman III circa 845 A.D. found in the Siva emple of Thiruvallam. It records the gift of a village for maintaining several services in the temple by a certain Vikramaditya Mabali Vanarayan(Bana King). It includes provisions for food offerings, the Sivabhramanas performing worship, Sribali (drummers), for makers of flower garlands, and singers of Thiruppadiyam. Four hundred kadi of paddy is prescribed as annual payment for the last two categories of services.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The word Thiruppadiyam in  inscriptions is generally taken by Dravidian scholars to refer to the Tevaram hymns of Saint Appar, Sambandar and Sundarar.  But Thirupadiyam Thiru(Sanskrit Sri) + Padiyam (Singing or Reading or chanting) does not translate to Devaram, it translates to singing or reading or chanting holy prayers or hymns or recitals. The Thirupadiyam is not  only sung in Siva and Vaishnava temples but jain shrines too. How can Devaram a saiva work  be sung in Jain temples. So the term simply means holy recitals not Devaram by the Trio.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Thirupadiyams History&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When Ramanuja started spreading his philosophy, he found that most of the scholars are committed to Sankara, So Ramanuja had created 74 aharyapurushas with hereditory rights of succession to spread vishistadvaita philosophy and temple worship, in contrast to sankara's teachings. Due to paucity of scholars, non- brahmins were also given seal of authority to convert. However, Vedas were restricted to Brahmins..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"While the recitation of Vedas was the monopoly of the Brahmins the recitation of Prabandhams was made the common right of all castes and both sexes." as per Raghavacharya. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi39f13prLXNX-IplXcOYNEYf9ysCDEQ1yXKoxxmFjNFnuMTeTpH037fVUJKSVC5O9eEGGlRTZLsH4uRNx18YIUPkSxMcGwlzW7dUvLdcXUiNuJTkSgZd8QiQB3YzQ41mgYfkCj77gbnJ12/s1600/Tirunavukkarasar.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="183" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi39f13prLXNX-IplXcOYNEYf9ysCDEQ1yXKoxxmFjNFnuMTeTpH037fVUJKSVC5O9eEGGlRTZLsH4uRNx18YIUPkSxMcGwlzW7dUvLdcXUiNuJTkSgZd8QiQB3YzQ41mgYfkCj77gbnJ12/s320/Tirunavukkarasar.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Term Devaram&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The term Tevaram also occurs in a jaina context, earlier, meaning a place of worship. The term Tevaram is mentioned in Saivite context in other places.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;nbsp;A 27th year record of Rajaraja I in the temple of Siva at Allur in Trichy district refers to the recitation of Thiruppadiyams by a certain Ambalattadi Thirunavukkaraiyan, at the Devara in the sthana matha of Vadakudi Mahadeva temple. The relevant portion of the text reads: (Thiru Vadakudi Mahadevar sthana mathattu Devarattukku Thiruppadiyan Vinnappam Ceyyum Ambalattadi Thiruavukkaraiyan (675 of SII VIII). The inscription is explicit in its statement that Thiruppadiyam was recited at the Devaram of the sthana matha, thereby clearly stating that the term Devaram stands for a sacred place of worship and does not refer to the devaram of the Trio. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is further confirmed by another inscription at Tanjore, recorded in the time of Rajendra I, son of Rajaraja. Dated in the 19th year of Rajendra I, it records certain gifts made by the king while he was seated at the cloistered hall of Devara, situated in the north, of the Mudikonda cholan Palace at Gangaikondacholapuram. Obviously the Devaram mentioned here is a place of worship (domestic) within the royal palace.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt; Another inscription dated in the reign of Rajendra (Kullotunga I) at Manambadi-Tanjore District, a certain nangur Maraikkadan alias Patanjali Pidara, served as Devara Nayaka to Rajendra Chola.  Obviously he was looking after the place of worship of the ruler. This would show that even in the 12th century the word Devaram stood for a place of worsip only and did not mean the sacred hymns of the three saints. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A record of Kiranur, Tanjore Disstrict dated in the reign of Rajaraja I, 7th year 992 A.D., states that Thiruppadiyam singer stood in front and recited, Vilakam ner Thiruppadiyami. The reciters stood in front of Devaram and sung the hymns, called Devarattu Thiruppadiyam, which during the passage of time came to be called simply Devaram, jettisioning the second member and thus the hymns themselves came to be called Devarams. The term Devaram is derived probably Devagaram i.e. place of God-worship and should have been prakritized as Devaram like Bhandagaram becoming Bhandaram and Koshtagaram becoming Kottaram.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From the examples we see that the Neither Thirupadiyam not Devaram in inscriptions refers to the hymns sung by the Trio. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9LideNub_9LB5fzv9bNVKV5XIOPE1QDhaEVwP7xCdN2OQgeE9BcnOsQQZNdrfBeSzkbsCRSj0W7dK7678CvXri_OFfOphaLWBLCPeeNUaDQgEEXLlYWR1gM9ACjtCyt9UHpXdu5kWGinO/s1600/Pallava+cave+temples.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9LideNub_9LB5fzv9bNVKV5XIOPE1QDhaEVwP7xCdN2OQgeE9BcnOsQQZNdrfBeSzkbsCRSj0W7dK7678CvXri_OFfOphaLWBLCPeeNUaDQgEEXLlYWR1gM9ACjtCyt9UHpXdu5kWGinO/s320/Pallava+cave+temples.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thirumurai&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thirumurai is a twelve volume compendium of  hymns in the praise of Shiva by various poets in South India. Nambi Andar Nambi compiled the first seven volumes by Appar, Campantar and Cuntarar as Tevaram. During the course of time, a strong necessity was felt by scholars to compile Saiva literature to accommodate other works.  Tiruvacakam and Tirukovayar by Manickavasagar is included as eighth, nine parts are compiled as ninth Tirumurai out of which most are unknown, tenth as Tirumandiram by Tirumular the famous Siddhar.  Eleventh is compiled by Karaikal Ammaiyar, Cheraman Perumal and others. The contemparary Chalukya Chola king was impressed by the work of Nambi and included Nambi's work in the eleventh Tirumurai.  Sekkizhar's Periya Puranam, composed a century later, contains the life depiction of all the 63 nayanmars.  The response for the work was tremendous among Saiva scholars   that it was included as the 12th Tirumurai.  Tirumurai along with Vedas and Saiva agamas from the basis of Saiva Siddantha philosophy in Tamil Nadu.  63 Alwars and Nayanmars is  a list compiled by Sekkilar in Kulothunga III court.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;b&gt;Periyapuranam&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Periya Puranam or Tiruttondar Puranam is a Tamil poetic account depicting the legendary lives of the sixty-three Nayanars, the poets of Tamil Shaivism. It was compiled during the 12th century by Sekkilar during the rule of Kullottonga Chola III.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Names of Saints in Inscriptions&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Let us see the reciters of Thirupadiyam, whose names are recorded in inscriptions. The reciters, whose names are recorded, are seen with two names (1) the surname and (2) the diksha name (names assumed during initiation). The intiatory names show that all of them underwent Siva diksha. The diksha names include any one of the five of names of Sadasiva, as Tatpurusha Siva, Aghora Siva, Vamasiva, Isana Siva, Sadasiva, or Rudrasiva. Other names included are Netra Siva, Hrdaya Siva, Sikha, Kavaca, Jnana, Vyoma, Yoga, Dharma, Satya, Purva and Omkara all ending the honorofic Siva. Among their surnames, seven reciters bear the name Thirunavukkaraiyan, five the name Aruran. (Among the names of other 63 saints, assumed by the reciters, Sirala occurs twice and none else). The names as recorded in inscriptions are interesting. We don't come across Appar, Sundarar and sambandar in chola inscriptions. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A point of interest worthy of note is that in the temple of Tanjore, the images of 63 saints, were not consecrated. Except the images of Siruttonda with his wife and son Sirala, and the image of Miladudaiyar,  other saints are not mentioned.  The  Period we are talking here is as early as Chalukya chola king Kulothunga. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let us look at the Saints in Historical Context.&lt;/b&gt;..&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Alvars and Nayanaras&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Pantheon of Alvar came after the times of Nathamuni and Ramanuja during their time they got wide acceptance. Until then Alvar means only Nammalvar. Nammalvar Tiruvoymoli is the first prabhandhams made known to tamil world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First Twelve Alwars &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Poigai, Bhutam, Pey, Thondar-adip-podi, Tirumazhisai aka Bhaktisara, Paanan, Kulashekara, Andal, Periazhvar, Tirumangai, Nammalvar, Madhurakavi.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Natha Muni recovers these verses by yogic powers&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sriman Nathamuni happened to hear some verses of Nammalvar through some pilgrims. His desire to hear more of these songs brought him to a of the direct - disciple of Nammalvar, on whose advice Sri Nathamuni being a yogi went through yogic exercise and established direct contact with the spirit of Sri Nammalvar. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Lost works , refound&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kanda Puranam (14th century AD) says that the Devaram hyms were lost and was recovered by nambi andar nambi on the direction of Abhaya Kulasekhara  from the sealed room of Chidambaram temple. However this story is exactly like the recovery of vaishnava hyms by Nathamuni(12th century AD Ancestor of Ramanuja) So it would have been most likely symbolic rather than true.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Nambi Andar Nambi.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nambi Andar Nambi,  was born in Tirunaraiyur near Chidambaram. who is said to have recovered, at the request of the Chola king, Raja Abhaya Kula-Sekhara, the Saivate canons of the three famous Devaram hymnists. It has been supposed that Nambi-Andar-Nambi was a contemporary of Rajaraja(Equating Raja Abhaya Kula sekhara). It is true his patron is said to have been a Chola king named Rajaraja Abhaya-Kulasekhara. But there is a very serious difficulty in identifying this Rajaraja with the builder of the Tanjore temple. Among the poems, which Nambi-Andar-Nambi is said to have classified, is the Tiruvisaippa, which contains a hymn on the Gangaikonda-Cholesvara temple built evidently by Rajaraja’s son Rajendra-Chola and called after his title Gangaikonda-Chola. The composer of the hymn himself must have lived after Rajaraja atleast or even Rajendra Chola; and Nambi-Andar-Nambi who classifies it along with the sacred writings of the Tamil Saivas, must certainly belong to a still later period. Since he recovers these scriptures after they are completely lost. He should at-least be a century or more later. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Manikka Vasagar Mentions Varguna&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"Varagunanaam thennavan eaththum Chitrambalaththaan&#133; " This varguna is said to be the Pandyan king who ruled in 9th century AD.  But the saint does not denote any king here. Nor does he says he pandyan. But it has been equated with Varguna pandyan and his date is taken to 9th century AD. Can the king be addressed like that by his own minister?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Let us now turn our attention the aim of the article that is Date to Devaram Trio&lt;/b&gt;...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Appar&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Appar is claimed to be contemproary of Mahendra Varman pallava based on the inscription in Tiruchi. The claims are based on these assumptions. &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ol style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Gundabhara and Gunadhara are same&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Both refer to Mahendravarman&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;So The Gunabhara in Tiruchirapalli inscription is Mahendra pallava&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;he moved away from evil conduct is mean to say that Jainism is evil conduct and he turned to      shaiva&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;This moving away from bad conduct is due to appar.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The Same place have many jain inscriptions in earlier and subsequent periods indicating it is a Jain centre, debunking any saivite conversion.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
If you see the evidence, there is nothing to suggest conversion, leave alone Appar involved in one. Let us see what other evidences contradicting them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilrBtVPzpA6OqXn0sHHYUM5n8yWJbG3qe47bLLSUtop2nWPPQLOvhSrfc_ecRsVybG2yQcsuKuynoSP7v-l2x6tPP7pV3dUFYL76C6yt_OkNuZC6mqZ9o_PhDBs_bdgoDHxcX4iUzt_EGd/s1600/Trichy+Cave+Temple.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilrBtVPzpA6OqXn0sHHYUM5n8yWJbG3qe47bLLSUtop2nWPPQLOvhSrfc_ecRsVybG2yQcsuKuynoSP7v-l2x6tPP7pV3dUFYL76C6yt_OkNuZC6mqZ9o_PhDBs_bdgoDHxcX4iUzt_EGd/s320/Trichy+Cave+Temple.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Mattavialasa prasanna&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mattavialasa prasanna  by Mahendra Varman Pallava makes fun of Saivite and Buddhist religions.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Gunabhara , Gnanabhra&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Rock cut cave temple have a defaced inscription , which record King Gnanabhra, who bore the birudas purushottama, satrumalla and satyasamd ,built  a temple of siva on the top of the mountain and placed in it a linga and a statue of himself. Both inscriptons mention river Kaveri.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Jain Inscriptions&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jain Inscriptions by pallavas continue after the said incident. If Mahendra Varman Pallva considered Jainism as evil way and saivite way as the correct way due to conversion by Appar. Then there should be shift inscriptions from jainism to Saivism, but there is none.  Since the whole claim is that Appar and mahendra varman pallava are contemproaries, is based on this inscription. There is no evidence to suggest a conversion or subsequent inscriptions for any conversion, let alone by appar.  The Jain monasteries continue to get aid from pallavas as before without any break. If evil way from which mahendra varma turned away is Jainism, there should be dip in aid to Jain Monasteries. The Aid continuous not only throughout pallava times, but also chola and Pandya times. So there is no evidence of any conversion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sambandar&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sambandar went to court of Koon Pandyan. He said to have defeated jains there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Koon Pandiyan&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Looking into the history of Kazimar Big Mosque of Madurai, it dates back to 13th century. Hazrat Kazi Syed Tajudin, who came from Oman, received the land where the present Masjid is situated, as donation from the then Pandya King of Madurai – Koon Pandiyan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Jain Debate&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The incident as narrated in Sekkizhar's magnum opus. As per this version,the Saivite saint Tirugnanasambandhar (TGS) debated 8,000 Jainas simultaneously. The Jainas had vowed that they would impale themselves should they lose the debate. As  Per Sekkizhar they did so.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Pandyan Nedumaran also known as Koon Pandiyan  was converted to Saivism by Sambandar. As per Kazimar Mosque dating Koon Pandiyan is date-able to 13th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First there is no evidence to suggest there is a debate of such large scale. And if that is true, then Sambandar should be dated to 13th century AD, not  7th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Thirumangai Alwar and Sambandar&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once Sambandar was staying in his mutt. Thirumangai alwar came by that side, surrounded by his followers shouting loudly the title's their leader. The followers of Sambandar asked the followers of Thirumangai alwar to maintain silence till they crossed the mutt. But Alwar became angry and went straight into the mutt. Sambandar welcomed him cordially and asked him to sing a song on the Lord Vishnu. So Alwar sang and hearing this Sambandar was spell bound and tears came running out of his eyes. He at once gave the spade (vel) which was given to him by lordess Aadhiparashakti to Alwar and requested him to continue his divine service to god. And accepted that he was apt for his titles and announcing them loudly was correct.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjlQb86Yny_OHsjIR_Porb6vJ2nHbbmV61CSBXhvPdjGIaxYXGpMuiV3aCEwLiD3jHdkfTYVVqJwFuKWN1vyCn7n7aeYoLFHrQ2pGSL_ry0W-LdYcYIzehhUGhfVDiHued33Ua2R3Q2hLN/s1600/Gangaikonda+Cholapuram+Temple.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjlQb86Yny_OHsjIR_Porb6vJ2nHbbmV61CSBXhvPdjGIaxYXGpMuiV3aCEwLiD3jHdkfTYVVqJwFuKWN1vyCn7n7aeYoLFHrQ2pGSL_ry0W-LdYcYIzehhUGhfVDiHued33Ua2R3Q2hLN/s1600/Gangaikonda+Cholapuram+Temple.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Thirumangai Date&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thirumangai's father was Nilam, a general under the Chola king Kochengan. Thirumangai also followed suit and became General under Chola. So His date has to be post pallava that is after 10th century AD.  Thirumangai Alwar arranged for worship of Nammalvar in Sri rangam Temple. That put Thirumangai Alwar at-least a  century or two Later. Thirumangai also refers to Vairamegha, the Rastrakutas. So he is definitely post 10th century AD. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now Thirumangai Alwar cannot be dated to 7th century AD. So how can Sambandhar who is a contemporary of Thirumangai Alwar dated to such date.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kochengan and Hiranyavarman&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kochenga's parents Subhadeva and Kamalavati prayed to Nataraja of Chidambaram temple for a male successor as per Sangam Literature.  The Periyapuranam(13th Century AD) calls him the son of the Chola king Subhadeva by Kamalavati. So Kochenga is post Nataraja Temple. Earliest Historical reference to Nataraja Temple is Nandivarma pallavamalla (732-796 CE) about his father Hiranyavarma building Nataraja Temple at Chidambaram. So Chidambaram Nataraja Temple was built by Nandivarma Pallavamalla around 750 AD. Kochengan parents came to pray in this temple for male heir and thus was born Kochengan. Since Kochengan is Chola. Kochengan should be dated Post pallava. And any literature referring to Kochengan is also post pallava.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgl8S-8ozOLCxH14vTjdlK3lM6gIkX_zDKGb3S5YiTacpzxFqFDXk0lsz9R5RsUwO_ZiVDhPYR3QUrZWyRhVJVqPXmBxMrIcmDA0vLNsJZp5yNvLgtgYjpYLF3JHuqm0HbhDxUgMPENFT_G/s1600/Nataraja+Statue.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgl8S-8ozOLCxH14vTjdlK3lM6gIkX_zDKGb3S5YiTacpzxFqFDXk0lsz9R5RsUwO_ZiVDhPYR3QUrZWyRhVJVqPXmBxMrIcmDA0vLNsJZp5yNvLgtgYjpYLF3JHuqm0HbhDxUgMPENFT_G/s1600/Nataraja+Statue.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Leyden grant calls him “a bee at the lotus feet of Sambhu (Siva).” This is shows to the fact that Sengan was considered as one of the sixty-three devotees of Siva. His name is mentioned by two of the authors of the Devaram: Sundaramurti invokes him in the Tiruttondattogai, and refers to a temple which Kochchenganan had built at Nannilam; and Tirunanasambandar mentions two other temples which the Chola king Seyyagan had built at Ambar and at Vaigal. Mr.Venkayya has found that the Nalayira-prabandham speaks of a visit of the Chola king Kochchenganan to the Vishnu temple at Tirunaraiyur.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kalvali narpathu sung in praise of Kochengan against the battle of Kanaikal Irumporai , Chera king in the battle of Kalumalam by Poigaiyar. In the Poem poigaiyar also points out Ganesha Statue. Now According to tamil Saiva tradition Ganesh worship was introduced to tamil nadu by Siru thondar. Where do dravidian scholars date Siru thondar? , post konchengan. That is the problem, what to trust in tamil tradition as historical.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Siru Thondar -Paranjothiyar&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Siru Thondar is described as Chola commander by periya purana , not pallava commander as being said by Dravidian Scholars. Paranjothi wrote Thiruvilayadal puranam. It portrays cholas, not pallavas. Paranjothi supposed to have brought the Ganesha  from vatapi and introduced Ganesha worship in Tamil Nadu. But Appar and sambandar sing about Ganesha. It is in Thirupadigam. No  pallava Inscription mention Parnjyothi as their general or otherwise. As per vatapi kondan or otherwise. King itself erected the victory pillar in Badami as per inscriptions. Kuram plates which give the details of pallava victory over Badami Chalukya Pulikesin II does not give the general name nor does it indicate anybody else leading the army other than king. Equating Paranjothiyar with siru Thondar and claiming him to be a pallava general is a huge scam to backdate both of them by Dravidian Scholars. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Appar and sambandar are contemproaries, Appar mentions Sambandar. Sambandar visited Siru thondar. So all three are contemporaries.  &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;Paranjothiyar . No Inscription mention Paranjothiyar as Commandar of Pallava Army. Infact the King himself went to conquer Vatapi (Badami) against Chalukyas. There is no evidence linking Paranjyothiar and Siru thondar.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Commandar : Siru Thondar is described as Chola Commander not Pallava in Periyapuranam&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Siru Thondar is later than Appar and  Sambandar. If Siru Thondar brought Ganesha from Vatapi and introduced Ganesha Worship, then how come Appar and Sambandar Sing about Ganesha in Tamil nadu.. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Brazen lies which contradict one another in the same paragraph.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Analysis&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Literary Vs Archaeological and Epigraphic Evidence.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is no match between the Literary and epigraphic and Archaeological evidence for a large scale conflict between Saiva and Jains.  The inscription and archaeological sites gives a continuous Jain or saiva presence even in places where the literature talks about major conflicts. jain inscriptions continue until 8th 9th century AD and later, provides no evidence of large scale conversions including chola areas. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When we see, the monastries, which were supposed to be in conflict with Shivites. The jain Monastries have inscription dateable to pallavas and Lokaavibhaga to around 5th century. But if we see the Shivite temples, we find only inscriptions to around 10th century or later.  This applies to Jain Monastry to where Appar converted to Shaivism  also. We do not come across any displacement of Jains due to shivites or conflict from these structures. Many of the Monasties were destroyed after12th century AD, but no destruction is found before these times.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFeW74fUzTbu_dA7N6ttlVaV_tdyYPFzPLxhetuQS1OzMEppasIPZcCPcqzjvNT_NCqYXWs2m_oiD5FrIqBhPSoo-4z46v86c8ygJQ1flzuADe5Ho568mPVP6jtrb18zK8sb8NhYCqBUUy/s1600/Badami+%2528Vatapi%2529+Cave+Temple.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFeW74fUzTbu_dA7N6ttlVaV_tdyYPFzPLxhetuQS1OzMEppasIPZcCPcqzjvNT_NCqYXWs2m_oiD5FrIqBhPSoo-4z46v86c8ygJQ1flzuADe5Ho568mPVP6jtrb18zK8sb8NhYCqBUUy/s1600/Badami+%2528Vatapi%2529+Cave+Temple.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Names of Appar , Sundara and Sambhandar are not mentioned in the inscription. The Word Thirunavukariyar(God who calls gods name) is mentioned, which seem to be similar to Thirupadiyam. This has been equated with Appar and tales are made. Same with Sambandar and sundarar. Names in the inscription are equated with them with no apparent basis.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Devaram Hymns are not found in inscriptions before Chalukyas took over the chola throne and formed the chalukya chola line.  Devaram hymns are absolutely not found in pallava inscriptions, where they supposed to have lived.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Periyapurana of Sekkilar and the Guruparampara are all later day Puranas, which take one or two episodes from the life of the saints and weave beautiful myths around them. While we are delighted in the divine writings, We must  be careful in utilising them for reconstructing history. Episodes corroborated by epigraphical or archaeological source alone should be taken into account and the rest left out to the realm of religious faith.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So Thevaram Trio Appar, Sambandhar and Sundarar are much later date atleast by 1200AD or more and not 7th century AD as claimed by Dravdian Scholars&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/i&gt; &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ol style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;li&gt; &lt;a href="https://www.trsiyengar.com/id188.shtml"&gt;Thirukkazhiseerama Vinnagaram&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/history-and-culture/article852218.ece"&gt;Study uncovers interesting details of cave temple&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://tamilartsacademy.com/articles/article09.xml"&gt;Mahendra's Inscription At Tiruchirapalli &lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://puratattva.in/2010/10/01/pallava-cave-temples-of-trichy-36.html"&gt;Pallava Cave Temples of Trichy &lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://tamilartsacademy.com/books/siva%20bhakti/chapter03.html"&gt;Date of Appar &lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.tamilartsacademy.com/articles/article11.xml"&gt;Pandya Arikesari and Pandikkovai&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://tamilartsacademy.com/articles/article08.xml"&gt;Dates of Nayanmars and Alvars&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Some Contributions Of South India To Indian Culture by Rajasevasakta Dewan Bahadur &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.whatisindia.com/inscriptions/south_indian_inscriptions/volume_3/no_138_141_uttama_chola.html"&gt;Inscriptions of Parakesarivarman Uttama-Chola &lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://tamilartsacademy.com/books/siva%20bhakti/chapter12.html"&gt;Epigraphical References&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;JOURNAL OF THE EPIGRAPHICAL SOCIETY OF INDIA VOL 5 (1978) &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.skandagurunatha.org/deities/siva/nayanars/27.asp"&gt;Thiru-jnana-sambandar by Swami Sivananda&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://chestofbooks.com/history/india/South-India-Culture/The-Nayanmars.html"&gt;The Nayanmars&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2008/12/kings-mentioned-by-periaazhwar.html"&gt;The kings mentioned by Periaazhwar!&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.whatisindia.com/inscriptions/south_indian_inscriptions/volume_14/introduction.html"&gt;PANDYA INSCRIPTIONS&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://chestofbooks.com/history/india/South-India-Culture/Ramanuja-Continued.html"&gt;Ramanuja. Continued&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.archive.org/stream/somecontribution035067mbp/somecontribution035067mbp_djvu.txt"&gt;Some Contributions of South India to Indian Culture by Sakkottai Krishnaswami Aiyangar&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;South Indian shrines: illustrated  By P. V. Jagadisa Ayyar  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/amit/books/nammalvar-1981-hymns-for-drowning.html"&gt;Hymns for the Drowning: Poems for Vishnu by Nammalvar and A.K. Ramanujan, (tr.)&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.thrikodithanam.org/"&gt;Thrikodithanam Mahavishnu Kshetram &lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.ambedkar.org/Tirupati/Chap16.htm"&gt;Evidence of Alvars &lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://kalayarkovilswarnakaleeswarartemple.com/structure.php"&gt;Kalayarkoil temple&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.skandagurunatha.org/deities/siva/nayanars/35.asp"&gt;Siruthondar by Swami Sivananda&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The Holy Lives of the Azhwars or the Dravida Saints by Alkondavalli Govindacharya Ananthacharya Indological Research Institute Publication1982 &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Philosophy and Theistic Mysticism of the Alwars by S.M.S.Chari Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Limited, Delhi 1997 &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Srimad Bhagavatha MahaPurana GitaPress. Gorakhpur 1971. &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Ancient Heritage of Tamils by V.G.Ramachandran &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;In  Mythology to History through Astronomy  edited by N.MahalingamN.I.A Publications, Pollachi, TamilNadu 1980. &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Vedic "Aryans" and the Origins of Civilization byNavaratna S.Rajaram and David Frawley  &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A literary and Scientific perspectiveW.H.Press. Quebec 1995. &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;South Indian Shrines: Illustrated By P. V. Jagadisa Ayya &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; The Recovery of the Devaram Hymns  BY S. R. BALASUBRAHMANYAN, M.A L.T., Chidambaram &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;TANJAVUR Brihadhiswara TEMPLE Inscriptions from  South Indian Inscriptions &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Temple Imagery from Early Mediaeval Peninsular India  By Archana Verma &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://ponniyinselvan.in/groups/ponniyinselvan/forum/topic/38146-period-of-azhwars/"&gt;Period of Azhwars&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Images &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ol style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Wikipedia &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Rediff &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;badamionline &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The Hindu&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-shankara.html"&gt;Date of Shankara&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/skanda-muruga-karthikeya-shanmuga.html"&gt;Skanda-Muruga-Karthikeya-Shanmuga origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/06/myths-of-kanchi-kamakoti-peetam.html"&gt;Kanchi Mutt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/07/is-tirupati-balaji-temple-buddist.html"&gt;Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddhist Temple &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-murugan-tamil-god.html"&gt;Lord Murugan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/religiously-tamil-religious-movement-in.html"&gt;Divine Tamil&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/11/who-is-avvaiyar-sangam-myth.html"&gt;Who is Auvaiyar - Sangam Myth&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/08/date-of-kambar-and-kambaramayanam.html"&gt;Date of Kambar and Kambaramayanam&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/myth-of-independent-tamil-culture.html"&gt;Independent Tamil Culture&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2013/10/date-of-devaram-thevaram-trio.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi39f13prLXNX-IplXcOYNEYf9ysCDEQ1yXKoxxmFjNFnuMTeTpH037fVUJKSVC5O9eEGGlRTZLsH4uRNx18YIUPkSxMcGwlzW7dUvLdcXUiNuJTkSgZd8QiQB3YzQ41mgYfkCj77gbnJ12/s72-c/Tirunavukkarasar.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>2</thr:total><enclosure length="7410" type="application/xml" url="http://tamilartsacademy.com/articles/article09.xml"/><itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit><itunes:subtitle>We are looking at the Dates of Appar, Sambandhar and Sundarar known as tevaram Trio. We are comparing the historical dates of these saints versus claims by dravidian scholars. Let us first see at the terms Thirupadiyam and Devaram. Thirupadiyam The earliest epigraphical reference to the recitation of Thiruppadiyam, occurs in the middle of the 9th century, in the reign of the Pallava ruler Nandivarman III circa 845 A.D. found in the Siva emple of Thiruvallam. It records the gift of a village for maintaining several services in the temple by a certain Vikramaditya Mabali Vanarayan(Bana King). It includes provisions for food offerings, the Sivabhramanas performing worship, Sribali (drummers), for makers of flower garlands, and singers of Thiruppadiyam. Four hundred kadi of paddy is prescribed as annual payment for the last two categories of services. The word Thiruppadiyam in inscriptions is generally taken by Dravidian scholars to refer to the Tevaram hymns of Saint Appar, Sambandar and Sundarar. But Thirupadiyam Thiru(Sanskrit Sri) + Padiyam (Singing or Reading or chanting) does not translate to Devaram, it translates to singing or reading or chanting holy prayers or hymns or recitals. The Thirupadiyam is not only sung in Siva and Vaishnava temples but jain shrines too. How can Devaram a saiva work be sung in Jain temples. So the term simply means holy recitals not Devaram by the Trio. Thirupadiyams History When Ramanuja started spreading his philosophy, he found that most of the scholars are committed to Sankara, So Ramanuja had created 74 aharyapurushas with hereditory rights of succession to spread vishistadvaita philosophy and temple worship, in contrast to sankara's teachings. Due to paucity of scholars, non- brahmins were also given seal of authority to convert. However, Vedas were restricted to Brahmins.. "While the recitation of Vedas was the monopoly of the Brahmins the recitation of Prabandhams was made the common right of all castes and both sexes." as per Raghavacharya. Term Devaram The term Tevaram also occurs in a jaina context, earlier, meaning a place of worship. The term Tevaram is mentioned in Saivite context in other places. &amp;nbsp;A 27th year record of Rajaraja I in the temple of Siva at Allur in Trichy district refers to the recitation of Thiruppadiyams by a certain Ambalattadi Thirunavukkaraiyan, at the Devara in the sthana matha of Vadakudi Mahadeva temple. The relevant portion of the text reads: (Thiru Vadakudi Mahadevar sthana mathattu Devarattukku Thiruppadiyan Vinnappam Ceyyum Ambalattadi Thiruavukkaraiyan (675 of SII VIII). The inscription is explicit in its statement that Thiruppadiyam was recited at the Devaram of the sthana matha, thereby clearly stating that the term Devaram stands for a sacred place of worship and does not refer to the devaram of the Trio. This is further confirmed by another inscription at Tanjore, recorded in the time of Rajendra I, son of Rajaraja. Dated in the 19th year of Rajendra I, it records certain gifts made by the king while he was seated at the cloistered hall of Devara, situated in the north, of the Mudikonda cholan Palace at Gangaikondacholapuram. Obviously the Devaram mentioned here is a place of worship (domestic) within the royal palace. Another inscription dated in the reign of Rajendra (Kullotunga I) at Manambadi-Tanjore District, a certain nangur Maraikkadan alias Patanjali Pidara, served as Devara Nayaka to Rajendra Chola. Obviously he was looking after the place of worship of the ruler. This would show that even in the 12th century the word Devaram stood for a place of worsip only and did not mean the sacred hymns of the three saints. A record of Kiranur, Tanjore Disstrict dated in the reign of Rajaraja I, 7th year 992 A.D., states that Thiruppadiyam singer stood in front and recited, Vilakam ner Thiruppadiyami. The reciters stood in front of Devaram and sung the hymns, called Devarattu Thiruppadiyam, which during the passage of time came to be called simply Devaram, jettisioning the second member and thus the hymns themselves came to be called Devarams. The term Devaram is derived probably Devagaram i.e. place of God-worship and should have been prakritized as Devaram like Bhandagaram becoming Bhandaram and Koshtagaram becoming Kottaram. From the examples we see that the Neither Thirupadiyam not Devaram in inscriptions refers to the hymns sung by the Trio. Thirumurai Thirumurai is a twelve volume compendium of hymns in the praise of Shiva by various poets in South India. Nambi Andar Nambi compiled the first seven volumes by Appar, Campantar and Cuntarar as Tevaram. During the course of time, a strong necessity was felt by scholars to compile Saiva literature to accommodate other works. Tiruvacakam and Tirukovayar by Manickavasagar is included as eighth, nine parts are compiled as ninth Tirumurai out of which most are unknown, tenth as Tirumandiram by Tirumular the famous Siddhar. Eleventh is compiled by Karaikal Ammaiyar, Cheraman Perumal and others. The contemparary Chalukya Chola king was impressed by the work of Nambi and included Nambi's work in the eleventh Tirumurai. Sekkizhar's Periya Puranam, composed a century later, contains the life depiction of all the 63 nayanmars. The response for the work was tremendous among Saiva scholars that it was included as the 12th Tirumurai. Tirumurai along with Vedas and Saiva agamas from the basis of Saiva Siddantha philosophy in Tamil Nadu. 63 Alwars and Nayanmars is a list compiled by Sekkilar in Kulothunga III court. Periyapuranam The Periya Puranam or Tiruttondar Puranam is a Tamil poetic account depicting the legendary lives of the sixty-three Nayanars, the poets of Tamil Shaivism. It was compiled during the 12th century by Sekkilar during the rule of Kullottonga Chola III. Names of Saints in Inscriptions Let us see the reciters of Thirupadiyam, whose names are recorded in inscriptions. The reciters, whose names are recorded, are seen with two names (1) the surname and (2) the diksha name (names assumed during initiation). The intiatory names show that all of them underwent Siva diksha. The diksha names include any one of the five of names of Sadasiva, as Tatpurusha Siva, Aghora Siva, Vamasiva, Isana Siva, Sadasiva, or Rudrasiva. Other names included are Netra Siva, Hrdaya Siva, Sikha, Kavaca, Jnana, Vyoma, Yoga, Dharma, Satya, Purva and Omkara all ending the honorofic Siva. Among their surnames, seven reciters bear the name Thirunavukkaraiyan, five the name Aruran. (Among the names of other 63 saints, assumed by the reciters, Sirala occurs twice and none else). The names as recorded in inscriptions are interesting. We don't come across Appar, Sundarar and sambandar in chola inscriptions. A point of interest worthy of note is that in the temple of Tanjore, the images of 63 saints, were not consecrated. Except the images of Siruttonda with his wife and son Sirala, and the image of Miladudaiyar, other saints are not mentioned. The Period we are talking here is as early as Chalukya chola king Kulothunga. Let us look at the Saints in Historical Context... Alvars and Nayanaras The Pantheon of Alvar came after the times of Nathamuni and Ramanuja during their time they got wide acceptance. Until then Alvar means only Nammalvar. Nammalvar Tiruvoymoli is the first prabhandhams made known to tamil world. First Twelve Alwars Poigai, Bhutam, Pey, Thondar-adip-podi, Tirumazhisai aka Bhaktisara, Paanan, Kulashekara, Andal, Periazhvar, Tirumangai, Nammalvar, Madhurakavi. Natha Muni recovers these verses by yogic powers Sriman Nathamuni happened to hear some verses of Nammalvar through some pilgrims. His desire to hear more of these songs brought him to a of the direct - disciple of Nammalvar, on whose advice Sri Nathamuni being a yogi went through yogic exercise and established direct contact with the spirit of Sri Nammalvar. Lost works , refound Kanda Puranam (14th century AD) says that the Devaram hyms were lost and was recovered by nambi andar nambi on the direction of Abhaya Kulasekhara from the sealed room of Chidambaram temple. However this story is exactly like the recovery of vaishnava hyms by Nathamuni(12th century AD Ancestor of Ramanuja) So it would have been most likely symbolic rather than true. Nambi Andar Nambi. Nambi Andar Nambi, was born in Tirunaraiyur near Chidambaram. who is said to have recovered, at the request of the Chola king, Raja Abhaya Kula-Sekhara, the Saivate canons of the three famous Devaram hymnists. It has been supposed that Nambi-Andar-Nambi was a contemporary of Rajaraja(Equating Raja Abhaya Kula sekhara). It is true his patron is said to have been a Chola king named Rajaraja Abhaya-Kulasekhara. But there is a very serious difficulty in identifying this Rajaraja with the builder of the Tanjore temple. Among the poems, which Nambi-Andar-Nambi is said to have classified, is the Tiruvisaippa, which contains a hymn on the Gangaikonda-Cholesvara temple built evidently by Rajaraja’s son Rajendra-Chola and called after his title Gangaikonda-Chola. The composer of the hymn himself must have lived after Rajaraja atleast or even Rajendra Chola; and Nambi-Andar-Nambi who classifies it along with the sacred writings of the Tamil Saivas, must certainly belong to a still later period. Since he recovers these scriptures after they are completely lost. He should at-least be a century or more later. Manikka Vasagar Mentions Varguna "Varagunanaam thennavan eaththum Chitrambalaththaan&#133; " This varguna is said to be the Pandyan king who ruled in 9th century AD. But the saint does not denote any king here. Nor does he says he pandyan. But it has been equated with Varguna pandyan and his date is taken to 9th century AD. Can the king be addressed like that by his own minister? Let us now turn our attention the aim of the article that is Date to Devaram Trio... Appar Appar is claimed to be contemproary of Mahendra Varman pallava based on the inscription in Tiruchi. The claims are based on these assumptions. Gundabhara and Gunadhara are same Both refer to Mahendravarman So The Gunabhara in Tiruchirapalli inscription is Mahendra pallava he moved away from evil conduct is mean to say that Jainism is evil conduct and he turned to shaiva This moving away from bad conduct is due to appar. The Same place have many jain inscriptions in earlier and subsequent periods indicating it is a Jain centre, debunking any saivite conversion. If you see the evidence, there is nothing to suggest conversion, leave alone Appar involved in one. Let us see what other evidences contradicting them. Mattavialasa prasanna Mattavialasa prasanna by Mahendra Varman Pallava makes fun of Saivite and Buddhist religions. &amp;nbsp; Gunabhara , Gnanabhra The Rock cut cave temple have a defaced inscription , which record King Gnanabhra, who bore the birudas purushottama, satrumalla and satyasamd ,built a temple of siva on the top of the mountain and placed in it a linga and a statue of himself. Both inscriptons mention river Kaveri. Jain Inscriptions Jain Inscriptions by pallavas continue after the said incident. If Mahendra Varman Pallva considered Jainism as evil way and saivite way as the correct way due to conversion by Appar. Then there should be shift inscriptions from jainism to Saivism, but there is none. Since the whole claim is that Appar and mahendra varman pallava are contemproaries, is based on this inscription. There is no evidence to suggest a conversion or subsequent inscriptions for any conversion, let alone by appar. The Jain monasteries continue to get aid from pallavas as before without any break. If evil way from which mahendra varma turned away is Jainism, there should be dip in aid to Jain Monasteries. The Aid continuous not only throughout pallava times, but also chola and Pandya times. So there is no evidence of any conversion. Sambandar Sambandar went to court of Koon Pandyan. He said to have defeated jains there. Koon Pandiyan Looking into the history of Kazimar Big Mosque of Madurai, it dates back to 13th century. Hazrat Kazi Syed Tajudin, who came from Oman, received the land where the present Masjid is situated, as donation from the then Pandya King of Madurai – Koon Pandiyan. Jain Debate The incident as narrated in Sekkizhar's magnum opus. As per this version,the Saivite saint Tirugnanasambandhar (TGS) debated 8,000 Jainas simultaneously. The Jainas had vowed that they would impale themselves should they lose the debate. As Per Sekkizhar they did so. Pandyan Nedumaran also known as Koon Pandiyan was converted to Saivism by Sambandar. As per Kazimar Mosque dating Koon Pandiyan is date-able to 13th century AD. First there is no evidence to suggest there is a debate of such large scale. And if that is true, then Sambandar should be dated to 13th century AD, not 7th century AD. &amp;nbsp; Thirumangai Alwar and Sambandar Once Sambandar was staying in his mutt. Thirumangai alwar came by that side, surrounded by his followers shouting loudly the title's their leader. The followers of Sambandar asked the followers of Thirumangai alwar to maintain silence till they crossed the mutt. But Alwar became angry and went straight into the mutt. Sambandar welcomed him cordially and asked him to sing a song on the Lord Vishnu. So Alwar sang and hearing this Sambandar was spell bound and tears came running out of his eyes. He at once gave the spade (vel) which was given to him by lordess Aadhiparashakti to Alwar and requested him to continue his divine service to god. And accepted that he was apt for his titles and announcing them loudly was correct. Thirumangai Date Thirumangai's father was Nilam, a general under the Chola king Kochengan. Thirumangai also followed suit and became General under Chola. So His date has to be post pallava that is after 10th century AD. Thirumangai Alwar arranged for worship of Nammalvar in Sri rangam Temple. That put Thirumangai Alwar at-least a century or two Later. Thirumangai also refers to Vairamegha, the Rastrakutas. So he is definitely post 10th century AD. Now Thirumangai Alwar cannot be dated to 7th century AD. So how can Sambandhar who is a contemporary of Thirumangai Alwar dated to such date. Kochengan and Hiranyavarman Kochenga's parents Subhadeva and Kamalavati prayed to Nataraja of Chidambaram temple for a male successor as per Sangam Literature. The Periyapuranam(13th Century AD) calls him the son of the Chola king Subhadeva by Kamalavati. So Kochenga is post Nataraja Temple. Earliest Historical reference to Nataraja Temple is Nandivarma pallavamalla (732-796 CE) about his father Hiranyavarma building Nataraja Temple at Chidambaram. So Chidambaram Nataraja Temple was built by Nandivarma Pallavamalla around 750 AD. Kochengan parents came to pray in this temple for male heir and thus was born Kochengan. Since Kochengan is Chola. Kochengan should be dated Post pallava. And any literature referring to Kochengan is also post pallava. The Leyden grant calls him “a bee at the lotus feet of Sambhu (Siva).” This is shows to the fact that Sengan was considered as one of the sixty-three devotees of Siva. His name is mentioned by two of the authors of the Devaram: Sundaramurti invokes him in the Tiruttondattogai, and refers to a temple which Kochchenganan had built at Nannilam; and Tirunanasambandar mentions two other temples which the Chola king Seyyagan had built at Ambar and at Vaigal. Mr.Venkayya has found that the Nalayira-prabandham speaks of a visit of the Chola king Kochchenganan to the Vishnu temple at Tirunaraiyur. Kalvali narpathu sung in praise of Kochengan against the battle of Kanaikal Irumporai , Chera king in the battle of Kalumalam by Poigaiyar. In the Poem poigaiyar also points out Ganesha Statue. Now According to tamil Saiva tradition Ganesh worship was introduced to tamil nadu by Siru thondar. Where do dravidian scholars date Siru thondar? , post konchengan. That is the problem, what to trust in tamil tradition as historical. Siru Thondar -Paranjothiyar Siru Thondar is described as Chola commander by periya purana , not pallava commander as being said by Dravidian Scholars. Paranjothi wrote Thiruvilayadal puranam. It portrays cholas, not pallavas. Paranjothi supposed to have brought the Ganesha from vatapi and introduced Ganesha worship in Tamil Nadu. But Appar and sambandar sing about Ganesha. It is in Thirupadigam. No pallava Inscription mention Parnjyothi as their general or otherwise. As per vatapi kondan or otherwise. King itself erected the victory pillar in Badami as per inscriptions. Kuram plates which give the details of pallava victory over Badami Chalukya Pulikesin II does not give the general name nor does it indicate anybody else leading the army other than king. Equating Paranjothiyar with siru Thondar and claiming him to be a pallava general is a huge scam to backdate both of them by Dravidian Scholars. Appar and sambandar are contemproaries, Appar mentions Sambandar. Sambandar visited Siru thondar. So all three are contemporaries. Paranjothiyar . No Inscription mention Paranjothiyar as Commandar of Pallava Army. Infact the King himself went to conquer Vatapi (Badami) against Chalukyas. There is no evidence linking Paranjyothiar and Siru thondar. Commandar : Siru Thondar is described as Chola Commander not Pallava in Periyapuranam Siru Thondar is later than Appar and Sambandar. If Siru Thondar brought Ganesha from Vatapi and introduced Ganesha Worship, then how come Appar and Sambandar Sing about Ganesha in Tamil nadu.. Brazen lies which contradict one another in the same paragraph. &amp;nbsp; Analysis Literary Vs Archaeological and Epigraphic Evidence. There is no match between the Literary and epigraphic and Archaeological evidence for a large scale conflict between Saiva and Jains. The inscription and archaeological sites gives a continuous Jain or saiva presence even in places where the literature talks about major conflicts. jain inscriptions continue until 8th 9th century AD and later, provides no evidence of large scale conversions including chola areas. When we see, the monastries, which were supposed to be in conflict with Shivites. The jain Monastries have inscription dateable to pallavas and Lokaavibhaga to around 5th century. But if we see the Shivite temples, we find only inscriptions to around 10th century or later. This applies to Jain Monastry to where Appar converted to Shaivism also. We do not come across any displacement of Jains due to shivites or conflict from these structures. Many of the Monasties were destroyed after12th century AD, but no destruction is found before these times. Names of Appar , Sundara and Sambhandar are not mentioned in the inscription. The Word Thirunavukariyar(God who calls gods name) is mentioned, which seem to be similar to Thirupadiyam. This has been equated with Appar and tales are made. Same with Sambandar and sundarar. Names in the inscription are equated with them with no apparent basis. The Devaram Hymns are not found in inscriptions before Chalukyas took over the chola throne and formed the chalukya chola line. Devaram hymns are absolutely not found in pallava inscriptions, where they supposed to have lived. The Periyapurana of Sekkilar and the Guruparampara are all later day Puranas, which take one or two episodes from the life of the saints and weave beautiful myths around them. While we are delighted in the divine writings, We must be careful in utilising them for reconstructing history. Episodes corroborated by epigraphical or archaeological source alone should be taken into account and the rest left out to the realm of religious faith. Conclusion So Thevaram Trio Appar, Sambandhar and Sundarar are much later date atleast by 1200AD or more and not 7th century AD as claimed by Dravdian Scholars Sources Thirukkazhiseerama Vinnagaram Study uncovers interesting details of cave temple Mahendra's Inscription At Tiruchirapalli Pallava Cave Temples of Trichy Date of Appar Pandya Arikesari and Pandikkovai Dates of Nayanmars and Alvars Some Contributions Of South India To Indian Culture by Rajasevasakta Dewan Bahadur Inscriptions of Parakesarivarman Uttama-Chola Epigraphical References JOURNAL OF THE EPIGRAPHICAL SOCIETY OF INDIA VOL 5 (1978) Thiru-jnana-sambandar by Swami Sivananda The Nayanmars The kings mentioned by Periaazhwar! PANDYA INSCRIPTIONS Ramanuja. Continued Some Contributions of South India to Indian Culture by Sakkottai Krishnaswami Aiyangar South Indian shrines: illustrated By P. V. Jagadisa Ayyar Hymns for the Drowning: Poems for Vishnu by Nammalvar and A.K. Ramanujan, (tr.) Thrikodithanam Mahavishnu Kshetram Evidence of Alvars Kalayarkoil temple Siruthondar by Swami Sivananda The Holy Lives of the Azhwars or the Dravida Saints by Alkondavalli Govindacharya Ananthacharya Indological Research Institute Publication1982 Philosophy and Theistic Mysticism of the Alwars by S.M.S.Chari Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Limited, Delhi 1997 Srimad Bhagavatha MahaPurana GitaPress. Gorakhpur 1971. Ancient Heritage of Tamils by V.G.Ramachandran In Mythology to History through Astronomy edited by N.MahalingamN.I.A Publications, Pollachi, TamilNadu 1980. Vedic "Aryans" and the Origins of Civilization byNavaratna S.Rajaram and David Frawley A literary and Scientific perspectiveW.H.Press. Quebec 1995. South Indian Shrines: Illustrated By P. V. Jagadisa Ayya The Recovery of the Devaram Hymns BY S. R. BALASUBRAHMANYAN, M.A L.T., Chidambaram TANJAVUR Brihadhiswara TEMPLE Inscriptions from South Indian Inscriptions Temple Imagery from Early Mediaeval Peninsular India By Archana Verma Period of Azhwars Images Wikipedia Rediff badamionline The Hindu&amp;nbsp; Related Posts Date of Shankara Skanda-Muruga-Karthikeya-Shanmuga origin Kanchi Mutt Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddhist Temple Lord Murugan Divine Tamil Who is Auvaiyar - Sangam Myth Date of Kambar and Kambaramayanam Independent Tamil Culture</itunes:subtitle><itunes:author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</itunes:author><itunes:summary>We are looking at the Dates of Appar, Sambandhar and Sundarar known as tevaram Trio. We are comparing the historical dates of these saints versus claims by dravidian scholars. Let us first see at the terms Thirupadiyam and Devaram. Thirupadiyam The earliest epigraphical reference to the recitation of Thiruppadiyam, occurs in the middle of the 9th century, in the reign of the Pallava ruler Nandivarman III circa 845 A.D. found in the Siva emple of Thiruvallam. It records the gift of a village for maintaining several services in the temple by a certain Vikramaditya Mabali Vanarayan(Bana King). It includes provisions for food offerings, the Sivabhramanas performing worship, Sribali (drummers), for makers of flower garlands, and singers of Thiruppadiyam. Four hundred kadi of paddy is prescribed as annual payment for the last two categories of services. The word Thiruppadiyam in inscriptions is generally taken by Dravidian scholars to refer to the Tevaram hymns of Saint Appar, Sambandar and Sundarar. But Thirupadiyam Thiru(Sanskrit Sri) + Padiyam (Singing or Reading or chanting) does not translate to Devaram, it translates to singing or reading or chanting holy prayers or hymns or recitals. The Thirupadiyam is not only sung in Siva and Vaishnava temples but jain shrines too. How can Devaram a saiva work be sung in Jain temples. So the term simply means holy recitals not Devaram by the Trio. Thirupadiyams History When Ramanuja started spreading his philosophy, he found that most of the scholars are committed to Sankara, So Ramanuja had created 74 aharyapurushas with hereditory rights of succession to spread vishistadvaita philosophy and temple worship, in contrast to sankara's teachings. Due to paucity of scholars, non- brahmins were also given seal of authority to convert. However, Vedas were restricted to Brahmins.. "While the recitation of Vedas was the monopoly of the Brahmins the recitation of Prabandhams was made the common right of all castes and both sexes." as per Raghavacharya. Term Devaram The term Tevaram also occurs in a jaina context, earlier, meaning a place of worship. The term Tevaram is mentioned in Saivite context in other places. &amp;nbsp;A 27th year record of Rajaraja I in the temple of Siva at Allur in Trichy district refers to the recitation of Thiruppadiyams by a certain Ambalattadi Thirunavukkaraiyan, at the Devara in the sthana matha of Vadakudi Mahadeva temple. The relevant portion of the text reads: (Thiru Vadakudi Mahadevar sthana mathattu Devarattukku Thiruppadiyan Vinnappam Ceyyum Ambalattadi Thiruavukkaraiyan (675 of SII VIII). The inscription is explicit in its statement that Thiruppadiyam was recited at the Devaram of the sthana matha, thereby clearly stating that the term Devaram stands for a sacred place of worship and does not refer to the devaram of the Trio. This is further confirmed by another inscription at Tanjore, recorded in the time of Rajendra I, son of Rajaraja. Dated in the 19th year of Rajendra I, it records certain gifts made by the king while he was seated at the cloistered hall of Devara, situated in the north, of the Mudikonda cholan Palace at Gangaikondacholapuram. Obviously the Devaram mentioned here is a place of worship (domestic) within the royal palace. Another inscription dated in the reign of Rajendra (Kullotunga I) at Manambadi-Tanjore District, a certain nangur Maraikkadan alias Patanjali Pidara, served as Devara Nayaka to Rajendra Chola. Obviously he was looking after the place of worship of the ruler. This would show that even in the 12th century the word Devaram stood for a place of worsip only and did not mean the sacred hymns of the three saints. A record of Kiranur, Tanjore Disstrict dated in the reign of Rajaraja I, 7th year 992 A.D., states that Thiruppadiyam singer stood in front and recited, Vilakam ner Thiruppadiyami. The reciters stood in front of Devaram and sung the hymns, called Devarattu Thiruppadiyam, which during the passage of time came to be called simply Devaram, jettisioning the second member and thus the hymns themselves came to be called Devarams. The term Devaram is derived probably Devagaram i.e. place of God-worship and should have been prakritized as Devaram like Bhandagaram becoming Bhandaram and Koshtagaram becoming Kottaram. From the examples we see that the Neither Thirupadiyam not Devaram in inscriptions refers to the hymns sung by the Trio. Thirumurai Thirumurai is a twelve volume compendium of hymns in the praise of Shiva by various poets in South India. Nambi Andar Nambi compiled the first seven volumes by Appar, Campantar and Cuntarar as Tevaram. During the course of time, a strong necessity was felt by scholars to compile Saiva literature to accommodate other works. Tiruvacakam and Tirukovayar by Manickavasagar is included as eighth, nine parts are compiled as ninth Tirumurai out of which most are unknown, tenth as Tirumandiram by Tirumular the famous Siddhar. Eleventh is compiled by Karaikal Ammaiyar, Cheraman Perumal and others. The contemparary Chalukya Chola king was impressed by the work of Nambi and included Nambi's work in the eleventh Tirumurai. Sekkizhar's Periya Puranam, composed a century later, contains the life depiction of all the 63 nayanmars. The response for the work was tremendous among Saiva scholars that it was included as the 12th Tirumurai. Tirumurai along with Vedas and Saiva agamas from the basis of Saiva Siddantha philosophy in Tamil Nadu. 63 Alwars and Nayanmars is a list compiled by Sekkilar in Kulothunga III court. Periyapuranam The Periya Puranam or Tiruttondar Puranam is a Tamil poetic account depicting the legendary lives of the sixty-three Nayanars, the poets of Tamil Shaivism. It was compiled during the 12th century by Sekkilar during the rule of Kullottonga Chola III. Names of Saints in Inscriptions Let us see the reciters of Thirupadiyam, whose names are recorded in inscriptions. The reciters, whose names are recorded, are seen with two names (1) the surname and (2) the diksha name (names assumed during initiation). The intiatory names show that all of them underwent Siva diksha. The diksha names include any one of the five of names of Sadasiva, as Tatpurusha Siva, Aghora Siva, Vamasiva, Isana Siva, Sadasiva, or Rudrasiva. Other names included are Netra Siva, Hrdaya Siva, Sikha, Kavaca, Jnana, Vyoma, Yoga, Dharma, Satya, Purva and Omkara all ending the honorofic Siva. Among their surnames, seven reciters bear the name Thirunavukkaraiyan, five the name Aruran. (Among the names of other 63 saints, assumed by the reciters, Sirala occurs twice and none else). The names as recorded in inscriptions are interesting. We don't come across Appar, Sundarar and sambandar in chola inscriptions. A point of interest worthy of note is that in the temple of Tanjore, the images of 63 saints, were not consecrated. Except the images of Siruttonda with his wife and son Sirala, and the image of Miladudaiyar, other saints are not mentioned. The Period we are talking here is as early as Chalukya chola king Kulothunga. Let us look at the Saints in Historical Context... Alvars and Nayanaras The Pantheon of Alvar came after the times of Nathamuni and Ramanuja during their time they got wide acceptance. Until then Alvar means only Nammalvar. Nammalvar Tiruvoymoli is the first prabhandhams made known to tamil world. First Twelve Alwars Poigai, Bhutam, Pey, Thondar-adip-podi, Tirumazhisai aka Bhaktisara, Paanan, Kulashekara, Andal, Periazhvar, Tirumangai, Nammalvar, Madhurakavi. Natha Muni recovers these verses by yogic powers Sriman Nathamuni happened to hear some verses of Nammalvar through some pilgrims. His desire to hear more of these songs brought him to a of the direct - disciple of Nammalvar, on whose advice Sri Nathamuni being a yogi went through yogic exercise and established direct contact with the spirit of Sri Nammalvar. Lost works , refound Kanda Puranam (14th century AD) says that the Devaram hyms were lost and was recovered by nambi andar nambi on the direction of Abhaya Kulasekhara from the sealed room of Chidambaram temple. However this story is exactly like the recovery of vaishnava hyms by Nathamuni(12th century AD Ancestor of Ramanuja) So it would have been most likely symbolic rather than true. Nambi Andar Nambi. Nambi Andar Nambi, was born in Tirunaraiyur near Chidambaram. who is said to have recovered, at the request of the Chola king, Raja Abhaya Kula-Sekhara, the Saivate canons of the three famous Devaram hymnists. It has been supposed that Nambi-Andar-Nambi was a contemporary of Rajaraja(Equating Raja Abhaya Kula sekhara). It is true his patron is said to have been a Chola king named Rajaraja Abhaya-Kulasekhara. But there is a very serious difficulty in identifying this Rajaraja with the builder of the Tanjore temple. Among the poems, which Nambi-Andar-Nambi is said to have classified, is the Tiruvisaippa, which contains a hymn on the Gangaikonda-Cholesvara temple built evidently by Rajaraja’s son Rajendra-Chola and called after his title Gangaikonda-Chola. The composer of the hymn himself must have lived after Rajaraja atleast or even Rajendra Chola; and Nambi-Andar-Nambi who classifies it along with the sacred writings of the Tamil Saivas, must certainly belong to a still later period. Since he recovers these scriptures after they are completely lost. He should at-least be a century or more later. Manikka Vasagar Mentions Varguna "Varagunanaam thennavan eaththum Chitrambalaththaan&#133; " This varguna is said to be the Pandyan king who ruled in 9th century AD. But the saint does not denote any king here. Nor does he says he pandyan. But it has been equated with Varguna pandyan and his date is taken to 9th century AD. Can the king be addressed like that by his own minister? Let us now turn our attention the aim of the article that is Date to Devaram Trio... Appar Appar is claimed to be contemproary of Mahendra Varman pallava based on the inscription in Tiruchi. The claims are based on these assumptions. Gundabhara and Gunadhara are same Both refer to Mahendravarman So The Gunabhara in Tiruchirapalli inscription is Mahendra pallava he moved away from evil conduct is mean to say that Jainism is evil conduct and he turned to shaiva This moving away from bad conduct is due to appar. The Same place have many jain inscriptions in earlier and subsequent periods indicating it is a Jain centre, debunking any saivite conversion. If you see the evidence, there is nothing to suggest conversion, leave alone Appar involved in one. Let us see what other evidences contradicting them. Mattavialasa prasanna Mattavialasa prasanna by Mahendra Varman Pallava makes fun of Saivite and Buddhist religions. &amp;nbsp; Gunabhara , Gnanabhra The Rock cut cave temple have a defaced inscription , which record King Gnanabhra, who bore the birudas purushottama, satrumalla and satyasamd ,built a temple of siva on the top of the mountain and placed in it a linga and a statue of himself. Both inscriptons mention river Kaveri. Jain Inscriptions Jain Inscriptions by pallavas continue after the said incident. If Mahendra Varman Pallva considered Jainism as evil way and saivite way as the correct way due to conversion by Appar. Then there should be shift inscriptions from jainism to Saivism, but there is none. Since the whole claim is that Appar and mahendra varman pallava are contemproaries, is based on this inscription. There is no evidence to suggest a conversion or subsequent inscriptions for any conversion, let alone by appar. The Jain monasteries continue to get aid from pallavas as before without any break. If evil way from which mahendra varma turned away is Jainism, there should be dip in aid to Jain Monasteries. The Aid continuous not only throughout pallava times, but also chola and Pandya times. So there is no evidence of any conversion. Sambandar Sambandar went to court of Koon Pandyan. He said to have defeated jains there. Koon Pandiyan Looking into the history of Kazimar Big Mosque of Madurai, it dates back to 13th century. Hazrat Kazi Syed Tajudin, who came from Oman, received the land where the present Masjid is situated, as donation from the then Pandya King of Madurai – Koon Pandiyan. Jain Debate The incident as narrated in Sekkizhar's magnum opus. As per this version,the Saivite saint Tirugnanasambandhar (TGS) debated 8,000 Jainas simultaneously. The Jainas had vowed that they would impale themselves should they lose the debate. As Per Sekkizhar they did so. Pandyan Nedumaran also known as Koon Pandiyan was converted to Saivism by Sambandar. As per Kazimar Mosque dating Koon Pandiyan is date-able to 13th century AD. First there is no evidence to suggest there is a debate of such large scale. And if that is true, then Sambandar should be dated to 13th century AD, not 7th century AD. &amp;nbsp; Thirumangai Alwar and Sambandar Once Sambandar was staying in his mutt. Thirumangai alwar came by that side, surrounded by his followers shouting loudly the title's their leader. The followers of Sambandar asked the followers of Thirumangai alwar to maintain silence till they crossed the mutt. But Alwar became angry and went straight into the mutt. Sambandar welcomed him cordially and asked him to sing a song on the Lord Vishnu. So Alwar sang and hearing this Sambandar was spell bound and tears came running out of his eyes. He at once gave the spade (vel) which was given to him by lordess Aadhiparashakti to Alwar and requested him to continue his divine service to god. And accepted that he was apt for his titles and announcing them loudly was correct. Thirumangai Date Thirumangai's father was Nilam, a general under the Chola king Kochengan. Thirumangai also followed suit and became General under Chola. So His date has to be post pallava that is after 10th century AD. Thirumangai Alwar arranged for worship of Nammalvar in Sri rangam Temple. That put Thirumangai Alwar at-least a century or two Later. Thirumangai also refers to Vairamegha, the Rastrakutas. So he is definitely post 10th century AD. Now Thirumangai Alwar cannot be dated to 7th century AD. So how can Sambandhar who is a contemporary of Thirumangai Alwar dated to such date. Kochengan and Hiranyavarman Kochenga's parents Subhadeva and Kamalavati prayed to Nataraja of Chidambaram temple for a male successor as per Sangam Literature. The Periyapuranam(13th Century AD) calls him the son of the Chola king Subhadeva by Kamalavati. So Kochenga is post Nataraja Temple. Earliest Historical reference to Nataraja Temple is Nandivarma pallavamalla (732-796 CE) about his father Hiranyavarma building Nataraja Temple at Chidambaram. So Chidambaram Nataraja Temple was built by Nandivarma Pallavamalla around 750 AD. Kochengan parents came to pray in this temple for male heir and thus was born Kochengan. Since Kochengan is Chola. Kochengan should be dated Post pallava. And any literature referring to Kochengan is also post pallava. The Leyden grant calls him “a bee at the lotus feet of Sambhu (Siva).” This is shows to the fact that Sengan was considered as one of the sixty-three devotees of Siva. His name is mentioned by two of the authors of the Devaram: Sundaramurti invokes him in the Tiruttondattogai, and refers to a temple which Kochchenganan had built at Nannilam; and Tirunanasambandar mentions two other temples which the Chola king Seyyagan had built at Ambar and at Vaigal. Mr.Venkayya has found that the Nalayira-prabandham speaks of a visit of the Chola king Kochchenganan to the Vishnu temple at Tirunaraiyur. Kalvali narpathu sung in praise of Kochengan against the battle of Kanaikal Irumporai , Chera king in the battle of Kalumalam by Poigaiyar. In the Poem poigaiyar also points out Ganesha Statue. Now According to tamil Saiva tradition Ganesh worship was introduced to tamil nadu by Siru thondar. Where do dravidian scholars date Siru thondar? , post konchengan. That is the problem, what to trust in tamil tradition as historical. Siru Thondar -Paranjothiyar Siru Thondar is described as Chola commander by periya purana , not pallava commander as being said by Dravidian Scholars. Paranjothi wrote Thiruvilayadal puranam. It portrays cholas, not pallavas. Paranjothi supposed to have brought the Ganesha from vatapi and introduced Ganesha worship in Tamil Nadu. But Appar and sambandar sing about Ganesha. It is in Thirupadigam. No pallava Inscription mention Parnjyothi as their general or otherwise. As per vatapi kondan or otherwise. King itself erected the victory pillar in Badami as per inscriptions. Kuram plates which give the details of pallava victory over Badami Chalukya Pulikesin II does not give the general name nor does it indicate anybody else leading the army other than king. Equating Paranjothiyar with siru Thondar and claiming him to be a pallava general is a huge scam to backdate both of them by Dravidian Scholars. Appar and sambandar are contemproaries, Appar mentions Sambandar. Sambandar visited Siru thondar. So all three are contemporaries. Paranjothiyar . No Inscription mention Paranjothiyar as Commandar of Pallava Army. Infact the King himself went to conquer Vatapi (Badami) against Chalukyas. There is no evidence linking Paranjyothiar and Siru thondar. Commandar : Siru Thondar is described as Chola Commander not Pallava in Periyapuranam Siru Thondar is later than Appar and Sambandar. If Siru Thondar brought Ganesha from Vatapi and introduced Ganesha Worship, then how come Appar and Sambandar Sing about Ganesha in Tamil nadu.. Brazen lies which contradict one another in the same paragraph. &amp;nbsp; Analysis Literary Vs Archaeological and Epigraphic Evidence. There is no match between the Literary and epigraphic and Archaeological evidence for a large scale conflict between Saiva and Jains. The inscription and archaeological sites gives a continuous Jain or saiva presence even in places where the literature talks about major conflicts. jain inscriptions continue until 8th 9th century AD and later, provides no evidence of large scale conversions including chola areas. When we see, the monastries, which were supposed to be in conflict with Shivites. The jain Monastries have inscription dateable to pallavas and Lokaavibhaga to around 5th century. But if we see the Shivite temples, we find only inscriptions to around 10th century or later. This applies to Jain Monastry to where Appar converted to Shaivism also. We do not come across any displacement of Jains due to shivites or conflict from these structures. Many of the Monasties were destroyed after12th century AD, but no destruction is found before these times. Names of Appar , Sundara and Sambhandar are not mentioned in the inscription. The Word Thirunavukariyar(God who calls gods name) is mentioned, which seem to be similar to Thirupadiyam. This has been equated with Appar and tales are made. Same with Sambandar and sundarar. Names in the inscription are equated with them with no apparent basis. The Devaram Hymns are not found in inscriptions before Chalukyas took over the chola throne and formed the chalukya chola line. Devaram hymns are absolutely not found in pallava inscriptions, where they supposed to have lived. The Periyapurana of Sekkilar and the Guruparampara are all later day Puranas, which take one or two episodes from the life of the saints and weave beautiful myths around them. While we are delighted in the divine writings, We must be careful in utilising them for reconstructing history. Episodes corroborated by epigraphical or archaeological source alone should be taken into account and the rest left out to the realm of religious faith. Conclusion So Thevaram Trio Appar, Sambandhar and Sundarar are much later date atleast by 1200AD or more and not 7th century AD as claimed by Dravdian Scholars Sources Thirukkazhiseerama Vinnagaram Study uncovers interesting details of cave temple Mahendra's Inscription At Tiruchirapalli Pallava Cave Temples of Trichy Date of Appar Pandya Arikesari and Pandikkovai Dates of Nayanmars and Alvars Some Contributions Of South India To Indian Culture by Rajasevasakta Dewan Bahadur Inscriptions of Parakesarivarman Uttama-Chola Epigraphical References JOURNAL OF THE EPIGRAPHICAL SOCIETY OF INDIA VOL 5 (1978) Thiru-jnana-sambandar by Swami Sivananda The Nayanmars The kings mentioned by Periaazhwar! PANDYA INSCRIPTIONS Ramanuja. Continued Some Contributions of South India to Indian Culture by Sakkottai Krishnaswami Aiyangar South Indian shrines: illustrated By P. V. Jagadisa Ayyar Hymns for the Drowning: Poems for Vishnu by Nammalvar and A.K. Ramanujan, (tr.) Thrikodithanam Mahavishnu Kshetram Evidence of Alvars Kalayarkoil temple Siruthondar by Swami Sivananda The Holy Lives of the Azhwars or the Dravida Saints by Alkondavalli Govindacharya Ananthacharya Indological Research Institute Publication1982 Philosophy and Theistic Mysticism of the Alwars by S.M.S.Chari Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Limited, Delhi 1997 Srimad Bhagavatha MahaPurana GitaPress. Gorakhpur 1971. Ancient Heritage of Tamils by V.G.Ramachandran In Mythology to History through Astronomy edited by N.MahalingamN.I.A Publications, Pollachi, TamilNadu 1980. Vedic "Aryans" and the Origins of Civilization byNavaratna S.Rajaram and David Frawley A literary and Scientific perspectiveW.H.Press. Quebec 1995. South Indian Shrines: Illustrated By P. V. Jagadisa Ayya The Recovery of the Devaram Hymns BY S. R. BALASUBRAHMANYAN, M.A L.T., Chidambaram TANJAVUR Brihadhiswara TEMPLE Inscriptions from South Indian Inscriptions Temple Imagery from Early Mediaeval Peninsular India By Archana Verma Period of Azhwars Images Wikipedia Rediff badamionline The Hindu&amp;nbsp; Related Posts Date of Shankara Skanda-Muruga-Karthikeya-Shanmuga origin Kanchi Mutt Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddhist Temple Lord Murugan Divine Tamil Who is Auvaiyar - Sangam Myth Date of Kambar and Kambaramayanam Independent Tamil Culture</itunes:summary><itunes:keywords>Appar, chola, Devaram, Pallava, Pandya, Ramanuja, saint, Saiva, Sambandhar, Siva, Sundarar, tamil, thevaram, Thirupadiyam</itunes:keywords></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-5339019800018916137</guid><pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 15:40:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2012-11-02T10:46:47.911+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Alphabet</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">brahmi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Epics</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Granta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hieroglyphs</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Indology</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">indus</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Jain</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Khartoshi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Lipi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Literature</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maurya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">sanskrit</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">script</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">vedic</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Writing</category><title>Was Ancient India Literate ? : Super Human Memory Myth</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
western scholars of Indology said:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;"Entire absense of writing, reading, paper, or pen in vedas, or during Brahamana period and complete silence in Sutra period(When art of writing was beginning to be known), the whole Literature of India was preserved in oral tradition only" &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Weber who wants to bring all history to later than Biblical period admits:  &lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"Europe has 10,000  sanskrit texts and considering that we have tens of thousands which the parsimony of karma has hithherto withheld form Museums and libraries of Europe, what a memory must have been their!."&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;Indian super Memory&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Immemorial practice with students of sanskrit literature has been to commit to memory the various subjects of their study and this practice of oral tradition has preserved the ancient Vedic texts.  This fact has led Western Indology scholars to surmise that writing was unknown in the earliest period of Indian Civilization and that the later forms of the alphabet were not of pure Indian growth.&lt;br /&gt;
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So According to these Western Indology Scholars, Indians have Super Human Memory. By Which they can not only memorize scores of documents, but they can also transmit through generations. Wow!, Who said science fiction is 20th century Stuff. &lt;br /&gt;
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We are looking at this question. Did writing existed prior to Mauryas? &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Panini&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Panini is best known grammarian of India. Muller says that there is no single term in the panini terminology which presupposes the existence of writing. So we go to find out.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhn0iO9qVaz8miwNTPGWp3tsuncqFxfdLoVizR5r9pVbW5NPtYAs7xZtewdmCIuBS_wTl7zDPrhVyUfa5vwpikB6xl4VS5WurasUEceIVD_J2fz-zjwMZo9fJ7XoRtTEkSnI9z_KzF-QRco/s1600/Panini.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="235" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhn0iO9qVaz8miwNTPGWp3tsuncqFxfdLoVizR5r9pVbW5NPtYAs7xZtewdmCIuBS_wTl7zDPrhVyUfa5vwpikB6xl4VS5WurasUEceIVD_J2fz-zjwMZo9fJ7XoRtTEkSnI9z_KzF-QRco/s320/Panini.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Panini almost singlehandendly brought together the classical sanskrit grammer. He mentions Grantha the equivalent for written or bound book in the later days in India. For Max Muller Granta mean simply a composition, which is handed down the generation by oral tradition. In short Panini is illiterate and somehow he produced one of the most eloborate and scientific set grammer ever known to mankind till today.Remember Panini has given 3996 rules for Classical Sanskrit Grammar.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Writing in Literature&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Classical Sanskrit Literature&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The direct reference to writing classical sanskrit according to Indologists in  literature are found to be in the Dharmasutra of Vasistha, which Dr.Buhler thinks, was composed around 8th century BC. Some scholars will assign this work 4th century BC as well.Astadhyayi of panini contains such compounds as Lipikara and Libikara, which evidently mean writer. The date of panini is not fixed, prof.Goldstucker puts him 8th century BC, others put him in 4 the century BC. The Vedic works contain technical terms like aksara, kanda, patala, grantha and the like, which is clear indication of writing. Of course Indology scholars wont accept them. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Buddhist age&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There are quite a large number of passages in the SriLanka's Tipitaka, which bear witness to an acquaintance with writing and to its extensive use.  &lt;br /&gt;
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At the time when Buddhist cannons were composed. Lekha and Lekhaka are mentioned in the Bhikkhu pacittiya and Bhikkhuni pacittiya.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Jatakaas, constant meniton is made of letters being written. The Jatakas know of proclamations. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYFFSKv9xRxclSAJkSVRXWK9r3tDPVP2scFDA5MYq9HMm6f0iIweplveh3-DjHkais9zMTtVsg-TtBN72rxEfwkw7pJXQRlltns43u3OuD_aPYXCgB1-yOw2M-PXGmjSHzn_tFIhYs3XeH/s1600/Vessantara+Jataka+Amaravati+relief.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYFFSKv9xRxclSAJkSVRXWK9r3tDPVP2scFDA5MYq9HMm6f0iIweplveh3-DjHkais9zMTtVsg-TtBN72rxEfwkw7pJXQRlltns43u3OuD_aPYXCgB1-yOw2M-PXGmjSHzn_tFIhYs3XeH/s320/Vessantara+Jataka+Amaravati+relief.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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We are also told of a game aksarika in which the Buddhist monk is forbidden to participate. This game is guessing of letters. &lt;br /&gt;
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In the rules of vinaya, it has been laid down that a criminal, whose name has been written up in the kings porch, must not be recieved into the monastic order. In the same work, writing is mentioned as a Lucrative profession.&lt;br /&gt;
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Mahavagga bear witness to the existence of elementary schools where the manner of teaching was the same as in the Indigenous schools of Modern India. All these references prove the existence of the art of writing in pre buddhist days.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Epic Age&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Epics contains archaic expressions such as likh, Lekha, Lakhaka, Lekhana but not lipi, which some scholars think is foriegn orgin. So Writing was known in Epic Age.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Vedic Literature&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
We find clear evidence in wide spread use of writing in the vedic period. Written documents are mentioned as legal documents. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Scripts&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Brahmi&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The earliest surviving written record other than Indus script is Piprawa vase inscription discovered by Colonel Claxton peppe. This Inscription is a prakrit before the prakrits of magadhi or sourasheni developed, so differently interpreted. This is dated to early part of 5th  century BC. &lt;br /&gt;
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Next comes Sohaura Copper plate , which Dr.Smith puts before Ashoka by 50 years. &lt;br /&gt;
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The Inscriptions of Ashoka is all over India. This shows that Writing was well used in Royal courts and the writting was well understood by common people.&lt;br /&gt;
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Dr.Weber came with view that Brahmi is borrowed from South Arab tribe. But this has been dismissed by Dr. Buhler.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEim_HmqcdBVdMbZjxWisZoybC_VdRDgwT_WzNR_58j1_w8Y5yqBdOOvvuB8vIwgt25WtFX1cd4wuFo9LSTockPyHGu7UrLhnhcFSCQP7BPK4g-n9ycdkzULHScbhrot9pbmc01Ut-DVvNNq/s1600/Brahmi+Script.png"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEim_HmqcdBVdMbZjxWisZoybC_VdRDgwT_WzNR_58j1_w8Y5yqBdOOvvuB8vIwgt25WtFX1cd4wuFo9LSTockPyHGu7UrLhnhcFSCQP7BPK4g-n9ycdkzULHScbhrot9pbmc01Ut-DVvNNq/s320/Brahmi+Script.png" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buhler Identified certain Brahmi letters were identical to 9th-7th BC century Inscriptions found in Assyria. One third of 23 Alphabets are identical to Brahmi letters. This Indologists suggestions that the Brahmi letters were derived from these letters from all Indology scholars including Buhler. But we have to note that the tribes in question are belonging belonging to Indian Tribe. This script traveled from India to Middle east.&lt;br /&gt;
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Jain Stupa unearthed at the Kankali Tila site of Mathura regarded by Vincent Simith as the oldest known stupa then (Before Indus valley sites were discovered). Smith dated it to be 600 BC for erection. Dr.Fuhrer who supervised the excavation found out that it contained a inscription Deva Stupa in a script, so old that it was forgotten.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Indus Script&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Indus Script has 250-500 characters. Some of the Seals seems to be Bilingual with Indus script next to the symbols. Seeming symbols to be for traders from other languages. So Indus valley is literate culture.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Hieroglyphs&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sir Alexander Cunningham had wanted to derive each letter from the indigenous Hieroglyphic, but then no hieroglyphic was found in India. But today we have Indus valley Hieroglyphic and many are working towards deriving brahmi from them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Writing Material &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Materials used for writing in India were Birch-bark(Bhurja-patra), Palm Leaves (tala-patra), paper, Cotton Cloth, wooden board (phalaka),leather, Stone, brick and metal. Manuscripts of books were generally written in the above leaves, paper and cotton cloth while for land-grants, certain charms etc, metals was used.  Wooden boards appear to have been used  as slates in schools and for the purpose of writing plaints with chalk in court-rooms.  Documents in connection with loans also used to be written on boards. Works appear to have been carved on wooden boards; Some manuscripts , engraved on wooden boards, still exist. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From Brahminical and Buddhist literature, leather also appears, however rarely, to have been used as writing material as it was animal skin and they are perishable in nature.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Royal edicts were engraved on rocks, pillars and caves. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5pfGe3iZTfyOdSfDs97AUGMBjtvosorrH1CLKMgNGX6M9UcLw75aYYryqDoSsN05ut2tCMP4tllZYJ5-Nt4sW8CbUoXOsCpg9BvpD0gmJG_HJo-d4IHJtfhGo6WfMau5A2Qz0V1sRFaoy/s1600/Gupta+Brahmi+Kanheri+Caves.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5pfGe3iZTfyOdSfDs97AUGMBjtvosorrH1CLKMgNGX6M9UcLw75aYYryqDoSsN05ut2tCMP4tllZYJ5-Nt4sW8CbUoXOsCpg9BvpD0gmJG_HJo-d4IHJtfhGo6WfMau5A2Qz0V1sRFaoy/s320/Gupta+Brahmi+Kanheri+Caves.jpg" width="240" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Agreements , donations,grants etc were also sometimes written on stone. Some Literary and religious works were written on this material. Bricks were also rarely used. Some bricks, with one or few letters inscribed, have been found in walls, temple-niches or pedestals of images.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Writing materials have been of perishable nature, Indian Manuscripts, relly belonging to an ancient age, are rare. In fact, the manuscripts discovered in central asia , are the oldest of the manuscripts available so far.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to Nearchos, who accompanied Alexander (327BC), paper was manufactured in India out of Cotton. The earliest paper-MSS written in Gupta Script were discovered at Kashgar and Kugier in Central Asia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The earliest bramhi script is on a vase dated to 5 th century BC &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Writing medium&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Writing medium in cases of paper, cloth and leaves was ink or masi. The word masi is derived from root mas denoting himsa or crushing, destroying it. therefore seems that ink was produced by pounding certain ingredients. In some parts of India, the word for ink is mela, probably derived from root mel (to mix). ink thus appears to have been admixture of certain substances. The use of ink in India is atlesat 4th century BC, is vouchsafed by Nearchos and Curtius. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Common color of ink is black. Red and Yellow inks were also used. For ordinary purposes, washable or delible ink was used. For writing documents, however indelible ink appears to have been in use.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Writing Apparatus&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Writing Apparatus (Lekhani, varnaka,varnavartika, salaka, Kathini etc) consists of bamboo pieces with sharp ends, quills etc. Compases and rulers also appear to have been use for special purposes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjcTsoPSolDpl2SJTXOIMzN-dtstPwbi16v3l1-m6k3trjd-P6xN34pqeMO_jfSwE2gsGOJZMYn_Y-xFkvV26h62j6tnzpuEP01ZwZT2NkvUVUlOV0Afzb33gxGzd3hOgnqr-d76D7DiPJY/s1600/Kankali+Jain+Stupa+Mathura.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjcTsoPSolDpl2SJTXOIMzN-dtstPwbi16v3l1-m6k3trjd-P6xN34pqeMO_jfSwE2gsGOJZMYn_Y-xFkvV26h62j6tnzpuEP01ZwZT2NkvUVUlOV0Afzb33gxGzd3hOgnqr-d76D7DiPJY/s320/Kankali+Jain+Stupa+Mathura.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Analysis&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Alberuni believes Indian Alphabet originated with the begining of Kali Age (3102BC). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hiuen Tsang speaks of high Antiquity of Indian writing system. Brahmi is stated, in the Chinese Encyclopedia Fa-Wan-Shu-Lin, to be the best of scripts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some Greeks mention about Writing materials in India. Megasthanes mentions Milestones, Almanancs, Horoscopes, etc.- which indicate prevalance of writing. The evidence suggest that writing was in Vogue in India in the period of 6th century to 4 century BC as a legacy of earlier times, far from being novelty , it was a continuity and continuity of time immemorial.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mauryan edicts reveal that Writting in Brahmi and kharosthi was written and understood by everyone including comman man.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiKLqVR0vrjdMoPlvPzY1aLlKiNIm0bHKKzXwZX-vw_nedk79pthzqNwpCIi6pNSccupmxNtjdTWRWoquM1xHB6JBotqlDJcFY5rx46HjVvCsJQ_7HhrEG_zhVzwgfIcTuqyDhZfgyPQnYF/s1600/Piprawa+Vase.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiKLqVR0vrjdMoPlvPzY1aLlKiNIm0bHKKzXwZX-vw_nedk79pthzqNwpCIi6pNSccupmxNtjdTWRWoquM1xHB6JBotqlDJcFY5rx46HjVvCsJQ_7HhrEG_zhVzwgfIcTuqyDhZfgyPQnYF/s1600/Piprawa+Vase.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jains Works Pnnavana-sutra and the Samavayanga-sutra contains names of Eighteen scripts(lipi) including Brahmi and Kharosthi. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Buddhist Sanskrit work Lalitavistara gives formidable list of 64 Scripts out of which Brahmi and Kharosthi is included. 64 scripts are divided into several groups . Eg. Provincial,Tribal, Sectrian etc. Some Foreign scripts were also known to Indians.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ramayana, Mahabharata, Arthasastra, Sutra literature (8th to 2nd century BC), Yaska (pre-panian writer), Astadhyayi (5th century BC) and some early Sanskrit works throw light on a culture of writing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indus valley scripts shows that Writing existed prior to 4th millienum BC as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Rig Veda exists from time immemorial, but writing definitely existed when it was organised into samhitas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjvT1ekfrMVh_RvnYFDLWuLPui5bXGN7MfGeBByIYfxyhlPUEwHV1cQOOdC2Uk0WXb-vMo2rhDwsmioJNmT5HH-7uVcI3rR36GjeoQIEbXOeVS5Cq_tsc8E3eiOHf31bEWYpegcBzrFDcBF/s1600/Indus+Script+Seals.jpg"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="152" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjvT1ekfrMVh_RvnYFDLWuLPui5bXGN7MfGeBByIYfxyhlPUEwHV1cQOOdC2Uk0WXb-vMo2rhDwsmioJNmT5HH-7uVcI3rR36GjeoQIEbXOeVS5Cq_tsc8E3eiOHf31bEWYpegcBzrFDcBF/s320/Indus+Script+Seals.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Indus valley findings made Indologists acknowledge that writing existed prior to Mauryan writing.  Though it has not been deciphered , it clearly shows writing existed in India before atlest 5-2 milliena before christ. Some Indology scholars have tried to show Indus script is derived from script from another civilization. But all these theories have fallen flat. Hrozny tried to derive Indus script from Hittite, Diringer is convinced that no script existed prior to Indus script from which Indus scirpt can be derived. Hunter and Langdon regard Indus script as prototype of Brahmi. The Vedic Scholars believed that Brahmi is from Brahma. It is mentioned in Narada Smriti that if Brahma has not created the art of writing or given excellant eye in the shape of script, the future would not have been deprived of obtaining bright future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Absence of inscriptions since Indus valley is due to widespread use of Paper and Cloth, which are perishable in nature.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Indian Civilization is a very advance civilization. There was a high development of trade and monetary transactions, and they carried on minute researches in grammar, phonetics and lexicography. These facts support the knowledge and widespread use of writing among ancient Indians. So the Super Human Memory is a Myth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Sources &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A Concise History Of Classical Sanskrit Literature  By Gaurinath Shastri, Bhattacharyya Shastri Gaurinath&lt;br /&gt;
The rise, decline and renewals of sramanic religious traditions within indic civilisation with particular reference to the evolution of jain sramanic culture and its impact on the indic civilization by Bal patil&lt;br /&gt;
Students' Britannica India, Volumes 1-5 By Indu Ramchandani&lt;br /&gt;
A Companion to Sanskrit Literature: Spanning a Period of Over Three Thousand ... By Sures Chandra Banerji&lt;br /&gt;
On the origin Indian Brahma Alphabet Georg Buhler&lt;br /&gt;
Was Writing Know Before Panini by A Chela&lt;br /&gt;
Agama Aura Tripitaka, Eka Anusilana: Language and Literature By Nagraj (Muni.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Images&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
University of Washington Libraries&lt;br /&gt;
Smithsonian.com&lt;br /&gt;
Europeana&lt;br /&gt;
btmar.org&lt;br /&gt;
Wiki&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Related Posts &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/origin-of-brahmi-script.html"&gt;Brahmi Script Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/myths-of-indus-script.html"&gt;Indus Script Myths&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthanes Meet ChandraGupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/myths-of-pallava-granta-script.html"&gt;Pallava Granta Script&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/01/tamil-brahmi-myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil.html"&gt;Myth of Tamil Brahmi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/myths-of-india-by-indologists.html"&gt;India By Indologists&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/11/was-ancient-india-literate-super-human.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhn0iO9qVaz8miwNTPGWp3tsuncqFxfdLoVizR5r9pVbW5NPtYAs7xZtewdmCIuBS_wTl7zDPrhVyUfa5vwpikB6xl4VS5WurasUEceIVD_J2fz-zjwMZo9fJ7XoRtTEkSnI9z_KzF-QRco/s72-c/Panini.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>2</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-7021031836657025915</guid><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:10:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2018-01-11T10:26:16.618+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Chattishgarh</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kosala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Magadha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maukhari</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mekala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">orissa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sarabhapuriyas. Gauda</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sasanaga</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sharabhapuriya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Trivara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vakataka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">vishnukundin</category><title>Who is Trivara deva? : Panduvamsis reign</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
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In the Article on Vishnukundin we have seen Madhavavarman Janasraya gives in his inscription both in Ipur Plates and Polamuru Plates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Trivaranagara-bhavana-gata-yuvati-hrdaya-nandanah.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
MeaningThe Delighter of the hearts of the young ladies in the palace(Palaces) of Trivaranagara&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Who is this Trivara deva?  Where is Trivaranagara?  what is the date of this Trivara ? that has been the problem. We seeking answers to these questions in the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Identification&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In these circumstances Mirashi and Sircar identified the Trivaranagara to be the capital of Mahasiva Trivaradeva, the panduvamsi ruler of Kosala. Who should have been powerful ruler of to be mentioned again and again. This grant was made in fortyeight year of his reign, shortly before the end of the regime. &lt;br /&gt;
The problem is due to identifying Suryavarman maternal grandfather of Sivagupta Balarjuna with  son of Mukhari Isavarvarman mentioned in Haraha Inscription of 554AD and that of Taravaranagara mentioned in Ipur and Polamur Plates by Vishnukudin Madhavavarman with Mahasiva Tivara. Add this to Panduvamsis who is now accepted to be successors of sarabhapuriyas. So we have to identify the identity of suryavarman to identify Trivara.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sircar is of the view, Trivara is contemproary of Visnukundin king Madhavavarman I, Maukhari Prince Suryavarman , son of Isanavarman and flourished in the later part of 6th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
D.Chopdar has tried to assign Trivaradeva  to later date of 7th century AD. This is on the basis that Queen Vasata , wife of Harsha gupta as daughter of Suryavarman, who very likely belong to family of Yashovaraman, who conquered Magadha in 725AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYAoyw0iCGYDz4JYpWmu8V4UseXw2TH3tM-A2_wqdsCrZnPh3IdvXZhfqLaGzWkpuA2U1hBeq_nHAU6Tj6QmLV39ipKmACB4JV8fMeE1clysrg_iX0qXkVGBK5i0_CcOgVMzn_ODr9bsrX/s1600/Lakshmana+Temple%252C+Sirpur%252C+Raipur.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYAoyw0iCGYDz4JYpWmu8V4UseXw2TH3tM-A2_wqdsCrZnPh3IdvXZhfqLaGzWkpuA2U1hBeq_nHAU6Tj6QmLV39ipKmACB4JV8fMeE1clysrg_iX0qXkVGBK5i0_CcOgVMzn_ODr9bsrX/s320/Lakshmana+Temple%252C+Sirpur%252C+Raipur.jpg" height="254" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chopdar further argues that  Trivaradeva cannot be  placed in 6th century AD because. In the charters of Sailodbhava king Dharmaraja Srimanabhita, there is a description of civil war between brothers Dhramaraja and Madhava after the deate of their father Madhyamarajal. In this war Madhava was defeated by Phasika and sought help from King Trivara. Joint forces of Trivara and Madhava were routed by Dhramaraja after which Madhava spent his last days in the territory of Trivaradeva, which is in south of Vindhya.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
R.D Banerjee says that Trivaradeva who Sailodbhava king Dhramaraja claims to have defeated is undoubtedly Mahasivagupta Trivara, the brother of Chandaragupta and uncle of Harshagupta of Malwa Guptas. The Ganjam plates of Madhavaraja I is dated to 619AD, the  cuttack museum gives the regnal date of 50 years. Hist ond Madhayamaraja ruled for atleast 26 years as konw from Parikud grants. His son might have ended in the last decade of 7th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From the above discussions, it is clear that Trivaradeva belongs to Panduvamsis dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhttL_hFqHjaRe3RCjJZGnEaGj3tnmgnxk-_u7PjcrufTKAAnvrdk3X09gSLTdeNhu18c_uZr5LIMOgzeoHzAxLAxpLJGQPN7Ks-PVu-GGEhhLDnPPSuKZVA71TQA7BW6SAdFQfLNolkAae/s1600/Sariputra+Stupa%252C+Repaired+by+Harsha+Vardhana.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhttL_hFqHjaRe3RCjJZGnEaGj3tnmgnxk-_u7PjcrufTKAAnvrdk3X09gSLTdeNhu18c_uZr5LIMOgzeoHzAxLAxpLJGQPN7Ks-PVu-GGEhhLDnPPSuKZVA71TQA7BW6SAdFQfLNolkAae/s320/Sariputra+Stupa%252C+Repaired+by+Harsha+Vardhana.jpg" height="242" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Panduvamsi&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There are two lines of Panduvamsis. One who ruled Mekala (Amarkantak in Shahdol dist of Madhya Pradesh) and another ruled Kosala region. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Panduvamsis of Mekala&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From the Copper plate inscriptions of the reign of Udirnavaira found at Malhar and Bamhni we get some geneology and chronology of Panduvamsi dynasty, ruling around 5th century AD. Burhikhar and Malga have yeilded other inscriptions of this dynasty. &lt;br /&gt;
Jayabala (founder&lt;br /&gt;
Vastaraja&lt;br /&gt;
Nagabala&lt;br /&gt;
Bharatabala&lt;br /&gt;
Surabala.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Panduvamsis of South Kosala&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The power of Panduvamsis were consolidated by Triavaradeva. &lt;br /&gt;
Udyana&lt;br /&gt;
Indrabala (Sons Bhavadeva, Ishanadeva, Nanna I)&lt;br /&gt;
Nanna I(Sons Trivaradeva, Chandragupta)&lt;br /&gt;
Trivaradeva&lt;br /&gt;
Nanna II&lt;br /&gt;
Chandragupta&lt;br /&gt;
Harshagupta (Sons Shivagupta, Ranakesarin)&lt;br /&gt;
Shivagupta &lt;br /&gt;
Sivanandin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Both Panduvamsis are related? &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
V V Mirashi suggested a link where Udyana the first known king of Panduvamsis of Kosala was shown as the son of Bharatabala, last known king of Panduvamshis of Mekala. The Bharatbala was also known as Indra. Now Udhayana has son name Indrabala. As per Indian Tradition grandson gets his grandfather name. However A M Shastri says last known Panduvamshis of Mekala was Surabala. We have no idea to know whether udayana and Surabala are brothers or not related at all. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Dating Panduvamsis of Kosala&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
D R Bhandarkar while editing sanjan plates(871AD) of Rastrakuta Amoghavarsha mentions that Chandragupta defeated Rastrakuta Govinda III. Bhandarkar equated Chandragupta to panduvamshis.  S R Nema this identification is erroneous. So his hyposthesis does not hold water.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
J F Fleet while editing Rajim grant of Tivaradeva mentions that Tivaradeva cannot be assigned earlier than roughly 800AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhvvgqdF_g8R0Cytm6VDuq_H8kxo8uWX7QuVasgiqwVRHm2TD3ful1jSPh6-OfDQ1korH4NUipv9xT5C8cYqZKEyS8PcZC2LzCTKvVoX6O2wGzoNUTeOSk7qNVpR7yfCfryFxm8gYZN25CD/s1600/Nalanda+University.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhvvgqdF_g8R0Cytm6VDuq_H8kxo8uWX7QuVasgiqwVRHm2TD3ful1jSPh6-OfDQ1korH4NUipv9xT5C8cYqZKEyS8PcZC2LzCTKvVoX6O2wGzoNUTeOSk7qNVpR7yfCfryFxm8gYZN25CD/s1600/Nalanda+University.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Kielhorn while editing Kudopali plates assign Rajim plates to middle of 8th century. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hira Lal while editing Lakshmana temple Inscription assigns the inscription to eigth or ninth century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alphabets in the records of Panduvamshis are written in box headed alphabets. Which are the western type variant of alphabets used by Vakataka , Kadamba and Guptas. V V Mirashi and D.C Sircar pointed this and the Tivaradeva cannot be dated in 8th century AD but earlier than that.  Mirashi, while editing Thakurdiya plates of Pravararaja assigns him to 530-550 AD, later he changed it to 520-540AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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According to Alexander Cunningham Tivaradeva was assigned to 425-450AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Analysis&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Visnukundin &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mirashi points out in the Vishnukundin inscription by Madhavarman III mentions him as the delighter of the hearts of ladies of Trivaranagara.  We have already seen the description of this in the article Reign of Vishnukundin. So let us move on. So Trivaradeva date here is pushed before 520AD. The capital city of Panduvamshis is Sripura.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Maukhari&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mirashi suggested Suryavarman father of Vasata, mother of Sivagupta, would have been Maukhari known from Haraha inscription. If this is accepted then Chandragupta of Panduvamshis  would be contemproary of Suryavarman. S R Nema agrees with this identification. But this identification raises serious issues according to Shastri. As the panduvamsis came after Sarabhapuriyas. Who has been assigned to end of 6th century AD. This theory becomes untenable. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Sailodbhava&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Chopdar  argues that  Trivaradeva cannot be  placed in 6th century AD because. In the charters of Sailodbhava king Dharmaraja Srimanabhita, there is a description of civil war between brothers Dhramaraja and Madhava after the death of their father Madhyamarajal. In this war Madhava was defeated by Phasika and sought help from King Trivara. Joint forces of Trivara and Madhava were routed by Dhramaraja after which Madhava spent his last days in the territory of Trivaradeva, which is in south of Vindhya. R.D Banerjee says that Trivaradeva who Sailodbhava king Dhramaraja claims to have defeated is undoubtedly Mahasivagupta Trivara, the brother of Chandaragupta and uncle of Harshagupta of Malwa Guptas. The Ganjam plates of Madhavaraja I is dated to 619AD, the  cuttack museum gives the regnal date of 50 years. He ond Madhayamaraja ruled for atleast 26 years as konw from Parikud grants. His son might have ended in the last decade of 7th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHthObDiRxZABtSzPbYXjhl4R3MyxlTrmMvnlCHgdzL56ih2o304CWB-KCuyIr1XNZvNuJkTxeBEd5gyBA41yjr4t1Gt5QI5fTddKQUGRZ_akR-AtGOrvIEpgPpQpxM-EZnRpOsjR0CVVl/s1600/Parsurameswara+Temple+%252C+Bhubaneshwar.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHthObDiRxZABtSzPbYXjhl4R3MyxlTrmMvnlCHgdzL56ih2o304CWB-KCuyIr1XNZvNuJkTxeBEd5gyBA41yjr4t1Gt5QI5fTddKQUGRZ_akR-AtGOrvIEpgPpQpxM-EZnRpOsjR0CVVl/s320/Parsurameswara+Temple+%252C+Bhubaneshwar.jpg" height="240" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Rastrakuta &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rastrakuta Dantidurga in his Samangada plates mentions that he defeated Sri Harsha. J F Fleet identified Sri Harsha with Harshavardhana. This identification is false as Dantidurga is much later than Harshavardhana. So the Fleet identification is absolute blunder. So his hypotheisis  does not hold ground.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Sarabhapuriya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Dhamatari and Kauvatal grants of Sarabhapuriya Sudevaraja(570-580AD) mentions certain Indrabala raja as occupying the office of Sarvadhikaradhikrata or Chief Minister. Can Indrabalaraja be the same as Indrabala of Panduvamsis. This is looks very tempting as the Panduvamsis succeeded Sarbhapuriyas and they could have been employed by them and later they could have succeeded.  However this theory falls flat as the Kharod inscription mentions Indrabala as reigning monarch. He also founded a city of Indrapura. However we can say that he was subordinate and later ruled as independent ruler. However A M Shastri says we need to include few kings between Panduvamsis and Sarbhapuriyas of  Amararya kula  namely Jaya Bhattarka and Pravara bhattaraka from the malhar plates of Vyaghraraja and Arang Plate (601 Gupta Era). Giving 30 years for these Amararaya kula kings and giving 10 years for Pravararaja after Sudevaraja. We cannot keep Trivardeva in Kosala. So this identication, which is not not firm grounds falls flat.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Trivaradeva &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Trivaradeva gave three copper grants located at Baloda, Bonda and Rajim indicating he extended his sway upto Kosala, Utkala and other Mandalas and assumed title Kosaladhipati. His Successor Nannaraja copper plate has been found at Adbhar. He was succeeded by Chandragupta and later by his son Harsagupta, who had married Vasata daughter of Suryavarman, ruler of Magadha.After the death of Harsa, his widow got constructed the famous Laksmana temple at Sirpur. The Successor of Harsagupta was his son mahasivagupta Balarjuna whose copper plated inscriptions  have been found at Bardula, Bonda, Lodhia, Malhar, Sirpur, Burhikhar and Senkapat.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Points&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Eastern Chalukya Jayasimha (633-663 AD) Claimed to have occupied Trivaranagara.  So the city name as Trivaranagara is well established by this time. &lt;br /&gt;
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Madhavavarman II of Vishnukundin (518-554AD). Madhavavarman II claims he is delighter of ladies of places of Trivaranagara. Looking around there is only few places that can called Trivaranagara with royal palace. The one place on the radar is the Trivaradeva palce of Panduvamsis. Even though panduvamsis called their capital Sripura. For a  outsider it is city of the king Trivaradeva. So Trivaradeva has to be during or before Madhavavarman II time. So the latest date for Trivaradeva is 554 AD. It is around this time he got defeated by  Contemproary of Mukhari Isvaravarman. Now Andhra king was defeated by crown prince Isnvavarman during Isvaravarman reign. Isnavarman came to the throne in 550AD. So this has to be before 550 AD. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirJA86XQ3q-AW18q98RmUswR9ommX_XJXxMetTvn6aXyvvDq5KhqT11Hq-c4GKlw8yVvdpqxA-OhGfDro-R8tz6QN2aNmeNMPiGvKoC4Krn5NyeORdhKUN78iY3kaktt0IAJKyi-NGYQP7/s1600/Undavalli+caves%252C+Guntur.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEirJA86XQ3q-AW18q98RmUswR9ommX_XJXxMetTvn6aXyvvDq5KhqT11Hq-c4GKlw8yVvdpqxA-OhGfDro-R8tz6QN2aNmeNMPiGvKoC4Krn5NyeORdhKUN78iY3kaktt0IAJKyi-NGYQP7/s320/Undavalli+caves%252C+Guntur.jpg" height="232" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Sailodbhava dynasty started with Madhavaraja. Sasanka(601-625AD) of Gauda installed Madhavaraja I after he invaded orissa and occupied them. This we know from the Ganjam inscriptions(300GE) of Madhavaraja I , who is practically first king of Sailodbhava Dynasty. Later after the death of Sasanaga he declared independence and gave Stylish inscriptions from Kongoda with great Fanfare. The Dharmaraja and Madhava(Not Madhavaraja I) fight is before this period. In this fight that it is claimed in the Sumandala inscription (250GE) that Trivaradeva participated and got defeated. The dates of these inscriptions differ by fifty years. which means Trivaradeva was contemproary of these kings who were ruling before  570AD. If we can call them early Sailodbhava kings. They are three in number Dharmaraja, Sivaraja and Champa raja. Dharmaraja(Abhaya Family) is  feudatories of Prithvivigraha.  Shivaraja is feudatory of Sambhuyaysas. Champaraja is semi independent. All the the inscriptions are from the same place. So we can rule out simulataneous rule. All three does not claim to be Sailodbhavas.  Both of them said have used Gupta Era. Since I have not found When Gupta Era starts, I will stick to the difference in their years. We know that Harsha Vardhana invaded Kongoda in 625 AD and Occupied them after death of Sasanaga. But Subsequent defeat of Harsha vadhana under the hand of Pulikesin liberated Kongoda again. But Pulikesin II overran Kosala as per Inscriptions.  Subsequent inscriptions of Sailodbhava inscription  resemble Chalukyan Charters.  He also declared himself Kalingatipati.  But Subsequently Ganga officers were brought in to adminster the territories. So we have Eastern Ganga Dynasty taking shape.  So Trivara existed prior to  570 AD. The confusion is caused because Madhavaraja II had a grandson named Dharmaraja. Indologists by equating him to Dharmaraja who defeated Trivara have brought down Trivaradeva to later than 8th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjhFzTFoy7eDbKLAYJwDBfdMHGR819fMXju6Bq4mCoSi1RME24nrfwhhb-MuvfZU3Fk_5KplDgZxA5UMYYIsSkDXNx0XG3pmkIMSC0awPlMIgtFvD-o6OhlZqUokBc7AK1Xl408dNL9Jx6H/s1600/Ruins+of+Karnasuvarna%252C+Murshidabad.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjhFzTFoy7eDbKLAYJwDBfdMHGR819fMXju6Bq4mCoSi1RME24nrfwhhb-MuvfZU3Fk_5KplDgZxA5UMYYIsSkDXNx0XG3pmkIMSC0awPlMIgtFvD-o6OhlZqUokBc7AK1Xl408dNL9Jx6H/s320/Ruins+of+Karnasuvarna%252C+Murshidabad.jpg" height="205" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
In the Sirpur Inscription of Balarjuna, who was grandson (Brothers Grandson) of Trivara, refers to maternal grandfather Suryavarman belonging to dynasty of varmans over Magadha. This suryavarman is none other than Mukhari Suryavarman who is son of Isnavarman. So Trivaradeva is of the time of Isnavarman and Suryavarman that is prior to 570AD.  In Haraha Inscription (554 AD) Isnavarman refers to Shivagupta Trivara. Balarjuna Sivagupta according to Sirpur inscription is son of Harsha gupta and Vasata (Daughter of Suryavarman) and grandson of Chandragupta (Brother of Trivara). So the dates have to earlier than 553AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Alphabets of Trivaradeva resembles Kadamba and Vakataka inscriptions. So he is defintely during that time, Before 550 AD. Earlier the Box headed characters of Vakataka were assigned to 8th century AD bringing Vakatakas to 8th century AD. But now it has been corrected to 4th century AD or earlier. So the Trivara inscription dates have to revised to this. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Trivara or Trivaradeva belongs to Panduvamsis dynasty and ruled during Mukhari Isnavarman time around 550 AD. The Family of Mekala Pandvamsis preceded probably before Kosala Panduvamsis. Mekala panduvamsis ruled in 5th century AD and Kosala Panduvamsis ruled in 6th century AD. Now where does Sarabhapura dynasty(Original Rulers of Sripura) can be dated. That we will see in another article.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Cultural Profile of South Kōśala: From Early Period Till the Rise of the&amp;nbsp; By Jitāmitra Prasāda Sim̄hadeba&lt;br /&gt;Inscriptions of Orissa: Circa 5th-8th centuries A.D, Volume 1 By Snigdha Tripathy&lt;br /&gt;Vakataka - Gupta Age Circa 200-550 A.D. By R. C. Majumdar, A. S. Altekar&lt;br /&gt;Dynastic History of  Magadha Cir 450-1200 ADBy Bindeshwari Prasad Sinha.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://puratattva.in/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Indian History and Architecture&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Images&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.raipurlive.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Raipur Live&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.indianetzone.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Indianetzone&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.historyofbengal.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;HistoryofBengal&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.indiatravelpal.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Indiatravelpal &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-gangas.html" target="_blank"&gt;Origin of Eastern Gangas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html" target="_blank"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/reign-of-vishnukundin.html" target="_blank"&gt;Reign of Vishnukundin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2014/03/reign-of-salankayana.html#.UxqwFc5qO4r" target="_blank"&gt;Reign of Salankayana &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html" target="_blank"&gt;Date of Kalidasa&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-is-kalinganagara.html" target="_blank"&gt;Where is Kalinganagara &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html" target="_blank"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/07/who-is-trivara-deva-panduvamsis-reign.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYAoyw0iCGYDz4JYpWmu8V4UseXw2TH3tM-A2_wqdsCrZnPh3IdvXZhfqLaGzWkpuA2U1hBeq_nHAU6Tj6QmLV39ipKmACB4JV8fMeE1clysrg_iX0qXkVGBK5i0_CcOgVMzn_ODr9bsrX/s72-c/Lakshmana+Temple%252C+Sirpur%252C+Raipur.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>0</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-6519263102076172449</guid><pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:35:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2021-05-24T15:09:39.611+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Assam</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Bengal</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Guada</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Harsha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hiuen Tsang</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Huns</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kalachuri</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kannauj</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Magadha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maitrakas</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Malwa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maukhari</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">orissa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Purshyabuti</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saurastra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Tibet</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Valabhi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Yashodharman</category><title>Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
We are looking at the question "Are Mukharis , Malwa Gupta's, Gaudas and Maitrakas" feudatories of Imperial Gupta's? All these dynasties ruled between 500 and 700 AD. This we can date from Harsha Vardhana, who is historically datable. We are looking at the inscription and other references to see whether any Imperial Gupta presence is there. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh5cl3WJCy6rGAmmqEgFd-z7ANmlrXSxNHmYjyM_bPu-i_7C1tvqAdMKUg07I_Vk5uhkDKqs4sdYc97qa6m8GDfk7hwZWFXd21g8FZ_MBXi1aOVWTTsyYOmfy3x0joXxMIPvARtvQHL1RUz/s1600/Maukhari+Dynasty.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh5cl3WJCy6rGAmmqEgFd-z7ANmlrXSxNHmYjyM_bPu-i_7C1tvqAdMKUg07I_Vk5uhkDKqs4sdYc97qa6m8GDfk7hwZWFXd21g8FZ_MBXi1aOVWTTsyYOmfy3x0joXxMIPvARtvQHL1RUz/s200/Maukhari+Dynasty.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Mukharis (Maukhari)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Maukhari has been found in Ashoka inscriptions as Mukhalinam.  But First official inscription is of Anantavarman in Barabar Nagarjuni hill cave inscription.  We learn a line of Mukhari chiefs starting from Yajnavarman , his son king samanta cudamani sri Sardula and his son king Anantavarman. These Inscriptions are undated.  There is not much we can prove here as evidence, except these early Mukharis ruled Northern Magadha and were earlier than the mainline mukharis,whom we are going to talk now. Mayura varma of Kadamba Dynasty in his Chandravalli Inscription talks about Maukharis. Mayuravarma talks about his victory over Maukharis. The Inscription is dated to 330 AD, but also as early as 283 AD by Pires. The inscription credits King Mayurasarman with victories over the Traikuta, Abhira, Pallava,Pariyatrika, Sakastana, Sendraka, Punata, and Maukhari (Prakrit names in the inscription read: Tekuda, Abhira, Pallava,Puriyotika, Sakastha[na], Sayinthaka, Punada, and Mokari). Pires thinks that Mukari refers to Maukharis of Magada. So there is one lineage that is starting earlier than 300 AD&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Maukhari and Malwa Guptas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1190k4PwC018A2ngjemCiZuSLlwED5CA-OmWfpKfyb4Ik4IA2ufSmg7b4eErgI3RwMuRAhZTy50oBRa6p-EJ3nyHMKp9ROhKP-Ryd6N-OjL_uby5_B3QIEOvqJEyynltrySkpMW8kEAYf/s1600/Apshad+Inscription.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1190k4PwC018A2ngjemCiZuSLlwED5CA-OmWfpKfyb4Ik4IA2ufSmg7b4eErgI3RwMuRAhZTy50oBRa6p-EJ3nyHMKp9ROhKP-Ryd6N-OjL_uby5_B3QIEOvqJEyynltrySkpMW8kEAYf/s1600/Apshad+Inscription.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Let us start the Mukharis with Yajnavarman. His Son Sardula was most ferocious and was death to many rulers. At the same time another Dynasty of Malwa Guptas were rising in West with Krishna gupta. Jivitagupta I clipped the wings of Anantavarman. This Mukhari line went into decline. But at the same time another Mukhari line Harivarman was rising around 500AD. Harivarman was contemproary of Krishnagupta. Adityavarman son of Harivarman married Harshagupta daughter of Krishnagupta. Adityavarman was followed by his son Isvaravarman who has married another Gupta Princess UpaGupta. Third member of the lines both Isvarvarman of Mukhari and Jivitagupta I of Guptas made conquests and brought fame to the dyansties. JivitaGupta I defeated Mukhari Anantavarman and conquered Magadha.  Isvaravarman son Isnavarman assumed title Maharajas. Haraha inscription refers to his victories over Andhra (Vishnukundin), Sulki(Chalukya) and Gaudas.  The Campaign against Gaudas must be placed in 550AD. After this that Isnavarman takes Imperial Titles, who is styled as Maharaja in the Asirgarh inscription, as Rsitipati in the Haraha inscription, and as Nrpati in the Jaunpur inscription. This conquests alarms his Malwa Gupta Contemporary KumaraGupta and Clash follows between allies. According to Apahad inscription the first round goes to Kumaragupta. Next Attack came from Survavarman son of Isnavarman. Damodaragupta eventhough repulsed the attack succumbed to his injuries (562AD).  Sarvavarman declares himself emperor of Magadha. Damodara Gupta was succeeded by Mahasenagupta. Mahasengupta goes for a alliance with AdityaVardhan of Pushyabhutis. But his challanges were huge. Chalukya Kirtivarman (567-597AD) declares that he won victories over Anga, Vanga and Magadha. His  Adversary is Mahasenagupta. Guada King occupied South Magadha and Tibetan king Sron Btson gambo (581-600AD), Mana Dynasty has established independent kingdom between Midnapur and Orissa. With so many troubles Mahasenagupta retired to Malwa(582AD). But Peace was not there Kalachuris  took over Malwa. Soon Chalukyas dislodged Kalachuris and Mahasenagupta rival DevaGupta unsurped throne and  Prabhakaravardhana has to resuce Kumaragupta and Madhavagupta sons of Mahasenagupta (602-603AD). Harsha Vardhan appoints MadhavGupta as the ruler of Magadha. Adityasena(Apshad Inscription)  son of Madhavagupta  became king of Magadha can be said as the first Independent Malwa Gupta to rule Magadha and rise of Later Guptas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Mukhari Line is as follows.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Magadha line&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Yajnavarman &lt;br /&gt;
king samanta cudamani sri Sardula&lt;br /&gt;
Anantavarman&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Kannauj Line&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Harivarman&lt;br /&gt;
Adityavarman&lt;br /&gt;
Isvaravarman&lt;br /&gt;
Isanavarman (530-554 A.D.)&lt;br /&gt;
Sarvavarman (560-5 to 585.)&lt;br /&gt;
Anantivarman (A.D. 585-600)&lt;br /&gt;
Grahavarman (600-605 A.D.),&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Malwa Guptas&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Krishnagupta&lt;br /&gt;
Harshagupta&lt;br /&gt;
Jivitagupta I&lt;br /&gt;
Kumaragupta III&lt;br /&gt;
Damodaragupta&lt;br /&gt;
Mahasenagupta&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavagupta&lt;br /&gt;
Adityasena &lt;br /&gt;
Deva Gupta&lt;br /&gt;
Visnu Gupta&lt;br /&gt;
Jivita Gupta II&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFW85_3GnY-wk0_NILvpgTagA2T7RV5Y23j4kJQ3Nz5Jh3Pp2iQOQv7Y6AHwDWphVh4EqyQdNliQTFWR8_XNITjbbUa9WWu9U1vLMu3lgyUmKkcb1J5QRAJceu3TYvCI2Ja5_x2Ewm2wGM/s1600/PushyaBhutis.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgFW85_3GnY-wk0_NILvpgTagA2T7RV5Y23j4kJQ3Nz5Jh3Pp2iQOQv7Y6AHwDWphVh4EqyQdNliQTFWR8_XNITjbbUa9WWu9U1vLMu3lgyUmKkcb1J5QRAJceu3TYvCI2Ja5_x2Ewm2wGM/s1600/PushyaBhutis.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Pushyabutis&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Rise of Harshavardhana&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harsha-Charita, a royal line was founded by one pushyabhuti, a devout Saivite, some where near Thaneswar in the Ambala district of Harayana. Nothing much is known about this ruler. It was only the fourth ruler prabhakaravardhana that the title Maharajadhiraja was assumed. A few details of Prabhkarvardhana are to be found in Harshacharita. He was the great General, who possibly defeated the Hunas also. Bana also mentions that he was the devotee of the sun. Prabhakaravardhana had two sons, Rajhavardhan and Harshavardhana and one daughter  Rajyasri. Grahavarman of the Maukhari dynasty was married to Rajyasri. After the death of Prabhakaravardhan in 605AD, Rajyavardhan ascended the throne. Soon bad news came, Mukhari Grahavarman was killed by the Malwa Gupta ruler Deva Gupta. Rajyavardhan  went after the Malwa ruler. The Malwa king  Deva Gupta was defeated and possibly killed. On his return Rajyavardhana was confronted by Sasanka(Sasanaga), Guada king of Bengal. All the available authorities declare that Rajyavardhana was killed by Sasanka(Shashanika) throught they differ in details. After his death, Harsha succeeded to the throne of Thaneswar and  Kanauj with the title of Rajputra and style of Siladitya in 606AD.  This is how Harsha Vardhan came to the throne. With Malwa under his arm as his mother was Malwa Princess and Magadha was occupied by Sasanka. Until Sasanka died Harsha could not do anything there. Once Sasanka died, Harsha vardhan got Magadha and Orissa and his ally Baskaravarman of Kamarupa got Guada. As brother in law of Grahavarman he also got the Magadha kingdom.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Guada Kings&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Rise of Sasanka&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgaIpwqkFgr11fXVb38B_gq2PfhWnuJd-ZS7ePmFNErgEB6FjNWckJqV_0mY7h-50tzYaU1gmBY7KNsm78lb1ciBH0sJhJ-6OJSoqWBeLyZmgwrfjFGNaLaE2fHynVi0pdzge5YJBdZVhyphenhyphenv/s1600/Gauda+Coins.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgaIpwqkFgr11fXVb38B_gq2PfhWnuJd-ZS7ePmFNErgEB6FjNWckJqV_0mY7h-50tzYaU1gmBY7KNsm78lb1ciBH0sJhJ-6OJSoqWBeLyZmgwrfjFGNaLaE2fHynVi0pdzge5YJBdZVhyphenhyphenv/s1600/Gauda+Coins.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Guada kings were confined to Guada by Later Guptas until the time of MahaSenaGupta. Increasingly the Mahasenagupta faced difficulties from Mukharis, Gaudas, Chalukyas and Tibetans. Gaudas under  invaded western and Central Bengal including Karnasuvarna and occupied them.  The Mukhari rulling at that time was Avantivarman, son of Sarvavarman. After death of Avantivarman, the Mukharis split into Two amd Jayanaga predecessor to Sasanaga invaded and occupied the southern part of Magadha under Sarva Varman. After the death of Jayanaga, sasanaga came to the Gauda throne. In 601AD Sasanka(Soma) became king of Gauda and he invaded Kamarupa under Baskarvarman and made it subordinate. He also invaded Orissa, defeated Mana king and annexed it. Thus he became the most powerful ruler in the region. Grahavarman seeing the rise of Gauda king should have been alarmed and offered marital relations with Prabhakaravardhana of Pushayabutis and married his daughter Rajyashri. Prabhakaravardhana should have been under threat from Deva Gupta coming on the Malwa throne. With Defeat of Kalachuris by Chalukyas, there was no contest from that space. It is in this scenario that marriage was concluded and their concerns were proved right after the death of Prabhakaravardhan. From 601-625AD, nobody could do anything to Sasanka. Guada Kings eventhough call themselves Mahasamantas do not mention any overlords, neither do Mana rulers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Break up of Mukharis&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Sarvavarman conquered Magadha around 575AD. Sarvavarman is first Mukhari ruler to be recognized as the soverign of Magadha. The Malwa Guptas were feudatories of Mukharis. He was master of Uttarpradesh. Marriage of his granddaughter Vasata(Suryavarman's Daughter) to prince of Mahakosala Harshagupta brought him closer to deccan.  Mahakosala ruler Chandragupta has just inherited the throne from his father Trivaradeva who was defeated by Vishnukundin ruler Madhavavarman I around 570AD. Sivagupta son of Harshagupta came to throne after death of Chandragupta in 596AD. Sarvavarman's Mukhari Empire extended from Punjab to Narmada in South.We have seen that breakup of Mukharis into two resulted in weakening of the empire and resulted in disappearance.  Let us reconstruct this scenario.  Sarvavarman has approinted his brother suryavarman as the incharge of Magadha.  Suryavarman strengthened his position by marrying his daughter to Harshagupta of Mahakosala. Suryavarman son was Bhaskaravarman. Normally Baskaravarman would have succeeded Suryavarman. But instead Avantivarman appointed his younger son Suca(Sucandravarman or Suvartavarman) as the governor of Magadha. After the death of Avantivarman Grahavarman succeeded in Kannauj. Suca declared himself ruler of Magadha. This was not liked by Bhaskaravarman son of Suryavarman. With taking over of the throne by Suca the Magadha and Kannuaj became independent of each other and thus lead to invasion and occupation of Magadha by Guadua king soon after. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Maitrakas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj_knwTsxvqtefZcQ5IMU25doX6_zdcCcz1IBRGgXQcptJa2QMdulmnG1RoF8Nr3GTAcyB1hwZlLcq5KVVWWHidqcnwP0IE9H1Vsf7Utu3uMKAnhdDSR7jJfwvTIUMumUa7zqBMl1QUbeXu/s1600/Maitraka+Dynasty.jpeg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj_knwTsxvqtefZcQ5IMU25doX6_zdcCcz1IBRGgXQcptJa2QMdulmnG1RoF8Nr3GTAcyB1hwZlLcq5KVVWWHidqcnwP0IE9H1Vsf7Utu3uMKAnhdDSR7jJfwvTIUMumUa7zqBMl1QUbeXu/s1600/Maitraka+Dynasty.jpeg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;The Maitrakas ruled over Saurashtra from their capital of Valabhi from about 500to 700AD. The founder of the dynasty was Senapati Bhattarka. They have made grants in which they call themselves Mahasamanta. The Mahasamanta  is said by Indology scholars as feudatory position. According to the scholars they must be feudatory to none else but Imperial Gupta. We have to see here that Maitrakas do not mention Guptas.,The phrase Parama Bhattaraka Pandanudhyata(dated 183) occurs in the reoords of the Valabhi ruler Dhruva sena I, who ruled till 545AD. Valabhi Kingdom was visited by Hiuen Tsang in 640 A. D. . He states the that the king was a Kshatriya  his name being Dhruvasena, and that he was son-in-law to Harsha the Emperor of India and king of Kannauj. The  Gurjaras of Broach use in their grants the Traikutaka otherwise  called the Kalachuri era ( starting point 249 A. D. ) Their  grants are also written in the Gujarati version of the southern Brahmi character(Satavahana-Kadamba style)  while the royal signature at the end is Norther Brahmi.  Here again Indologists equate Parama Bhattaraka as Imperial Gupta Monarch. In all these places Era's mentioned by the kings are equated with  Gupta era, even though there is no evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Yashodharman&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5yQqcdWU3bmjYP3miQUqwspx7iji40LkKEkh0KOSaWQvl-wypQF8gxxjmQ-bd9iYZvEZb73WdBtEJx2Ncxx6QgkrRuCBslmf8c8dO8LSG82any9F1aRHHcFLWH7OureDi1MaB0r7iA-au/s1600/Yashodharman+Pillars.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5yQqcdWU3bmjYP3miQUqwspx7iji40LkKEkh0KOSaWQvl-wypQF8gxxjmQ-bd9iYZvEZb73WdBtEJx2Ncxx6QgkrRuCBslmf8c8dO8LSG82any9F1aRHHcFLWH7OureDi1MaB0r7iA-au/s1600/Yashodharman+Pillars.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;In Jaunpur Inscription Isvaravarman describes himself who estinguished the spark of fire coming from dhara. Yasodharman is also of same period. Yasodharman Mandasur inscription is 532AD(589 Vikrama samvat). Yasodharman defeated Huna Mihirkula around 515AD(Mihirkula came to Malwa throne in 510AD). Now here Dhara is equated with Yashodharman. Here we have to know that Dhara is a city (Modern Dhar), while Yashodharman is a person. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;We have established the scenario, Now let us come to our Questions&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;br /&gt;
Nowhere we see in any inscriptions, Imperial Guptas being mentioned. Neither does Imperial Guptas mention Mukharis. So we have to say Imperial Guptas and Mukharis did not know each other. Same goes for Malwa Guptas, they don't mention any Imperial Guptas, neither does Imperial Guptas mention them.  Neither of them use Gupta Era. The main claim by indologist is they use the term Mahasamanta in their inscription, which will mean a feudatories. &lt;br /&gt;
AsirGarh Copper Plates does not give any Overlord&lt;br /&gt;
Haraha Inscription - Does not give any Overlord&lt;br /&gt;
Juanpur Inscription - Does not give any overloads&lt;br /&gt;
All use Malwa Samvat - Even though there is Gupta Overlords?&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Question of Samanta&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
We may note that even in the Arthasastra, the word samanta has often the meaning “neighbour”, without alternative — as for example in Arth. 3.9 when transfer of title to houses and plots of land is in question. However, in every single case, Samanta can consistently be translated as neighbour, whether royal or commoner, without incompatibility. There is no samanta baron in the Manusmrti. The earlier Guptas rule over no samantas in their inscriptions; the posthumous Harisena inscription of Samudragupta on the Allahabad pillar mentions no Samantas. Dharasena of Valabhi who appears as the first mahasamanta   is an independent king friendly to the Guptas (from the tone of his inscriptions), not a peer of the realm. The Mandasor  pillar  inscriptions of Yasodharman, who drove Mihirakula and the Huns out of Malwa, say that the king defeated and humbled all the samantas, which can only mean neighbour kings. But the Visnusena charter, takes samanta only in the sense of petty feudal viscounts who might press labour for corvee, or infringe upon the rights and immunities of merchants to whom the charter was granted. Thus, the change in meaning falls within a period around 600AD.  It is confirmed by the Ten Princes  of Dandin,where samanta can only mean feudal baron, though the author shows remarkably close reading of the ArthaSastra as of many other works. The copper plates  of Harsa, supported by Chinese travellers Hieun Tsang accounts prove that feudal relationships and samanta “ baron” had come to stay in the seventh Century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Huns &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kuvalayamala(700Saka- 778AD), the Jain Account of Toramana tells, He is Soverign of Uttarapatha and his guru was Hari Gupta. The most extensive account is by Hiuen Tsang. Huns led by Mihirkula as per Hiuen Tsang are dated some centuries before 633AD, when he visited Sakala.  Watters points out Chinese agree with this view.  Both Toramana and Mihirkuala are Staunch saivites.  The end of Gupta empire is predicted on Huns, we don't know whether these two are Huns or Kushana chiefs. The territories identified by Huns and the two kings also differs. Beal Identifies areas Tokharistan, Kabulistan and Zabulistna  and Chavannes adds according to chinese history (by Sung-Yun), the only Indian Countries under Huns are Gandhara and Chitral. But Toramana and Mihirkula are in a entirely different plane. I dont consider Toramana , Mihirkula and Yashodharman relevant here as Mukharis , Yashodharman, Malwa Guptas and Imperial Guptas ruling whole of North India invisible to one another.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Baladitya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The other place Scholars mention about Imperial Guptas is when Hieun Tsang mentions Baladitya as the one who defeated and eliminated Huns.   Baladitya has been identified with the conqueror of Mihiragula.  Baladitya captured Mihirakula but later released him on his mother’s request. Paramartha also mentions that  Baladitya was sent to Vasubandu to study Buddhism by his father. Hence it is possible that Mihirakula’s move against Buddhism would provoke Baladitya to take strict steps. Mihirakula’s reign is assigned to about 520 CE. Could the Baladitya of Hiuen Tsang same as Narasimhagupta Baladitya of the Gupta dynasty? As per Indology dating there is a gap of fifty years in the current proposed date of Narasimhagupta and the date of Mihirakula which is very hard to justify. Even if we assume that Narasimhagupta was ruling in 520 CE, would it be possible for him to wage war against Mihirakula at that very old age? A N Dandekar mentions that Baladitya of Hiuen Tsang is not Narasimhagupta but someone else. But the existence of several Baladityas renders this identification doubtful.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yashodharman, Toramana, Mihirkula, Aulikharas and Huns, we will see in different Article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mukharis, Malwa Guptas, Gaudas, Maitrakas all had their origin in early part of 6th century AD. According to Indologists Imperial Guptas were still ruling North India and specifically Malwa, Magadha. But we don't find any evidence to the same. So our conclusion is Imperial Guptas are not overlords or Contemproaries of Mukhari, Malwa Gupta, Gaudas and Maitrakas. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Dynastic History Of Magadha  By George E. Somers&lt;br /&gt;
Rise and fall of the imperial Guptas  By Ashvini Agrawal&lt;br /&gt;
History of Kanauj: To the Moslem Conquest  By Rama Shankar Tripathi&lt;br /&gt;
Vakataka - Gupta Age Circa 200-550 A.D.  By Ramesh Chandra Majumdar, Anant Sadashiv Altekar&lt;br /&gt;
D. D. KOSAMBI ON HISTORY AND SOCIETY PROBLEMS OF INTERPRETATION&lt;br /&gt;
The imperial Guptas and their times  By Dilip Kumar Ganguly&lt;br /&gt;
Ancient India: History and Culture  By Balkrishna Govind Gokhale&lt;br /&gt;
Rise and fall of the imperial Guptas  By Ashvini Agrawal&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span class="blog-name"&gt;&lt;a href="http://puratattva.in/"&gt;Indian History and Architecture&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/reign-of-vishnukundin.html"&gt;Reign of Vishnukundins&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2014/03/reign-of-salankayana.html#.UxqwFc5qO4r" target="_blank"&gt;Reign of Salankayana &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/myth-of-huns-invasion-of-india.html"&gt;Who are White Huns&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthanes Meet ChandraGupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html"&gt;Date of Kalidasa - Gupta Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh5cl3WJCy6rGAmmqEgFd-z7ANmlrXSxNHmYjyM_bPu-i_7C1tvqAdMKUg07I_Vk5uhkDKqs4sdYc97qa6m8GDfk7hwZWFXd21g8FZ_MBXi1aOVWTTsyYOmfy3x0joXxMIPvARtvQHL1RUz/s72-c/Maukhari+Dynasty.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>0</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-1656677665977401569</guid><pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:34:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2018-02-23T19:28:52.346+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Alwar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Andhra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Balaji</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chola</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">hindu</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Jain</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">kanchi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Karikala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">karthikeya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">murugan</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pallava</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ramanuja</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sangam</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">shaivism</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Silapthikaram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Thondaiman</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Tirumala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Tirupati</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Venkateshwara</category><title>Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddist Temple</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
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So many scholars, from all sides of the spectrum have many theories on why there may be previous structure at the present Tirupati temple.  Let us see ourselves the evidences.&lt;br /&gt;
We are not going to any religious discussion or philosophical discussion, we will stick to the main point, was there a Buddhist shrine at the site of Venkateshwara temple at Tirupati.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQIhe35MTolDGtRWVcbtIEygk9rjJTFkhhaSRTVNAXy3nysVkHI0jPqx-LQotPVXOGPrJyOnr7bi5kgJoCf02k6XRdnp4AD51YlPTkEval4T7BhJsJxu9bNjWRrTNDo6jjwsihgKmBT8h2/s1600/Tirupati+Temple.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQIhe35MTolDGtRWVcbtIEygk9rjJTFkhhaSRTVNAXy3nysVkHI0jPqx-LQotPVXOGPrJyOnr7bi5kgJoCf02k6XRdnp4AD51YlPTkEval4T7BhJsJxu9bNjWRrTNDo6jjwsihgKmBT8h2/s320/Tirupati+Temple.jpg" width="203" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Buddhist Temple&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Indology scholar Romila Thapar told -Dig underneath every Hindu temple, there will be a buddhist temple. If we take example of Adil shah of Bhamani Dynasty, his court poet farishta tells the king demolished more than 300 major temples in karnataka and built mosques there, even in this case we cannot apply Romila Tapar and say dig underneath every moque that adil shah built, you will find a temple, because many mosque are there which were not built demolishing a temple.  The Romilla Tapar comment is pure Indologist leftist leaning. Here she is not providing any proof's, but plain rhetoric.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;karthikeya( Murugan) temple. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
One more claim put forth by  Dravidian scholars of tamil nadu. Originally it was a Karthikeya temple and was converted to a vishnu temple. Bala means young unmarried same as Kumar(sanskrit) and Kumaran(Tamil) , which denotes to karthikeya ,but in tamil version eventhough he is called kumaran, murugan is married to Devyani(deva army) and valli ( tribal girl). So this argument is defeated there , that the murugan can be called balaji. More than that In South he is called Venkateshwara (Lord of Venkata) and only in north India he is called Balaji and in recent times.&lt;br /&gt;
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First they have to  prove that there was a Murugan worship was prevalent in the first millienia in tamil nadu and temples are built for murugan, For this we dont have a answer.&lt;br /&gt;
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second Pallava were ruling in Kanchi upto 9th century AD  and tamil kings areas were below the pallava region. &lt;br /&gt;
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Third Tirupathi came under Banas and Nolambas for most part in the first milliena. Both being Kannada Dynasties. So we dont see any murugan temple being built. Since the Kannada/ Tulu version of Karthikeya is Shanmuga. If it was a karthikeya temple, then the kannada kings might have called it shanmuga temple.&lt;br /&gt;
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Fourth and most important Tamil literature right from  Sangam works have always claimed that Tirupathi (Thiruvengadam)&amp;nbsp; lies  north of Tamil Nadu boundary. &lt;br /&gt;
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So  Tamil Scholars dont see much credit in Dravidian scholars  argument that  Tirupati is a Karthikeya or Murugan temple. Indology and  Dravidian scholars who have worked tirelessly to undermine authentic  Indian history seems have shot themselves in their foot here.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Temple Structure&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
First temples in south India were built in 4th century AD in Karnataka and Andhra. Even in 6th century AD, most of the temples built were Rock cut temples, not standalone temples that we have today. All the early temples like Mamallapuram of Pallavas are also rock cut temples. So a hill temple Hindu or Buddhist standalone in Thirupathi is unthinkable.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;When was Tirupati temple built.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Puranas &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Purana Accounts are legendary and is not helpful in finding the probable date of the temple. Puranas concentrate how Vishnu came voluntarily to take his place there. Varaha temple at the foothills of Tirupati predates venkateshwara temple at the top. The only account relavant here is Tondaman (pallava) started the worship of vishnu here. This Thondaman assisted his brother(Akasa Raja) in administration. Thondaiman had a foster daughter in Tirupati and she was married to venkatesa. After the death of Akasa Raja (left a young prince), he and his nephew fought and tondiaman felt very weak ,so got the weapons from venkateswara . The war ended Indecisively and the country was divided into two. The one closer to Vengadam (Tirupati) was given to thondaman and the other farther away given to his nephew. Tondaiman built the temple and started the festivals.  This Tondaman lived in Kaliyuga.  There is a separate Thondaiman dynasty post 12th century AD. But Dravidian scholars want to identify Thondaiman as Pallava.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Sangam Literature&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
We dont comes across any mention of temple in the vengadam (Tirupati) hills. Tirupati was on northside of the boundary of Tamil speaking region. Beyond this region vadukar lived with Thirayan as the chief and people spoke a language not understandable to tamils. So no help in determining when the temple was built. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Alwar (Bakti tradition)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
One Alwar called poigai Alwar gives around 12 referrences to temple at Tirupati and Vishnu as presiding deity. Poigai Alwar wrote Naalayira Divyap Prabhandham on the vishnava places. In some places he refers to Ilam kumara koman (May Indicate Subramanya, but the reference here is young fellow).  Alwar Bhutan refers to Tirupati and Presiding diety in around 8 references in his works. Pey Alwar also refers to Tirupati.  These three alwars considered worshipping vishnu with Vedic rituals as the supreme form of worshp. Some refer to the diety as ardhanari, which refers to shiva. We have to come to the conclusion here, eventhough the diety is referred as ardhanari, it may not be peculiar to shiva alone at those times. And the same goes for Ilam kumaran , may not be peculiar to subhramanya. Even though we come across stray references , we are given solid references to prove the diety is vishnu, so we should not vacillate in our judgement that the diety is not vishnu. Ardhanari shows that the temple is equally important for Lakshmi. So all the early Alwars refer to Tirupati and Vishnu diety. Tirumalisai (Bhakti sara - Sanskrit) contemproary of these three alwars wrote that he has seen all faiths and only found vishnu as great. Now we have to date the Alwars ,which is again&amp;nbsp; controversial. That requires a whole article. But let us try. There is a reference to vairamegha in the early alwars work, that seemed to be identified as Rastrakuta Dantidurga, contemproary of Nandivarma pallava.  But the identification needs to be proved. Commentator of Alangara kranta named Yapparungulam belonging to 11th to 12th century AD claims he is desciple of Poigaiyar (poigai alwar)and quotes two stanzas from the authors work. Tirumalisai is dated to 11th century AD. But one thing we can say is all the Alwars were born after the temple were built which was already famous.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Silapatikaram&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Silapadigaram a buddhist work tells that Tirupati is Vishnu temple. In this story a Brahman of Mangadu  in Malainadu goes to Tirupati and Srirangam and sings in praise of Vishnu.The Tirupati is said to be so famous that people from west coast also went to the temple. So this buddhist epic tells very clearly that presiding diety of Tirupati is Vishnu. Dating of cilapathikaram is controversial, we have already seen in a separate article.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;So let us find who this thondaman is? &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
We find from Sangam literature sources that Vengadam changed hands from kalvar chieftain pulli to Tondaman  before  the time of pandyan king who won a great victory in Talaiyalanganam.  The King who won in Talaiyalanganam is mentioned in Sinnamanur plates dated to 11th century AD and kings mentioned just before this date. The same source says Tondaman ruling from pavattirai (Nellore Dist, AP). We have one more Thondaman Ilam Thirayan ruling in Kanchi.  Now the Foster Daugher born to the Tondaman is not legitimate and he is said to have found her on the hills and later finds out that she is his daughter. This has been equated with Naga princess story of karikala. But Karikala meets Naga princess in outskirts of Kaveripattanam, not in Tirupati hills. So  we cannot identify Tondaman with karikalan.  But there is a pallava story of Pallava marrying naga princess in an inscription in kanchi as well. Perumban Arupadai which gives specific details about Kanchi Vishnu temple of Thondaman Ilam Thiraiyan is silent on Tirupati or association of thiraiyan with Tirupati, so we cannot link these two stories. Thiraiyan had a brother and nephew. He fought with the Nephew and uncle for the throne. Alwars talking about war between southern king (pandya) and Northern ruler (pallava).&lt;br /&gt;
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The Tirumangai Alwar says that the Thiraiyan kanchi was occupied by one vairamegan. The vairamegan is suposed to be Rastrakutas. Two Rastrakutas occupied the capital one is Dandidurga and other Govinda II.  This story of fight between brother and Nephew looks similar to  Kampavarman pallava(relative of Western Gangas) and his kid brother Nrptunga Pallava(relative of Pandyas and also Rastrakutas). This story can reveal the struggle between the last war of succession in Pallava Dynasty before Aditya Karikalan unsurped the throne.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Inscriptions&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Uttaramallur by Nandivarman pallava II is the first inscription to refer to vengadam, there is no temple here still. The hill is just mentioned as Vengada ,not Thiruvengada(Sri Vengada). &lt;br /&gt;
In 8th and 9th centuries AD, Many Visnu temples near Tirupati received Grants from many kings, but none was given to Tirupati temple. But the same can be said about Buddhist or Murugan or Jain Temple , Kings at that time were secular, so there should be a grants even if it is any of the other holy places.&lt;br /&gt;
In TTD gives eleven inscription of pallavas. Earliest belong to Dandivikramadeva , which may correspond to period 833-34AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even through many scholars claim many dates for Tirupathi temple construction, First Inscription in Tirupati temple is by Dandivarman pallava(830AD). So the Temple has to be built during that time.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Tirupati Debate&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Point is the debate about Tirupati is not just today ,but it is there right from 11th century AD.  Ramanuja made arguements to kings to establish the primacy of Vishnu in Tirupati. For this we have to establish the date of Ramanuja.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;span id="goog_61947923"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span id="goog_61947924"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;Date of Ramanuja&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There was a Vaishnavite Devotee called as Nadamuni.  He belongs to Mannarkovil in south Arcot district. He spent most of the time in the village and sometimes in Kurukaikkavalappan Kovil, a nearby village, which was just mile after the chola capital Gangaikonda Cholapuram (Named so,After Western Ganga Territories were absorbed into chola empire in 1022AD). when he was in Kurukaikkavalappan Kovil village, he heard vaishnavite devotees singing a song in praise of Vishnu, which was Tiruvoimoli of Nammalvar. He asked the pilgrim to repeat the verses. But the pilgrim knew only ten lines of the 1000 lines poem. So he went in search of the work. He reached Kumbakonam, he got nothing. So he went to Tirunagari in Tirunelveli the native place of Nammalvar. His attempts were futile there also. So he sat under the tree of temple ,where Nammalvar is supposed to have practiced Yoga. He chanced on someone who was direct disciple of Nammalvar and got the full work. He brought the work to srirangam and revived the festival started by Thirmangai Alvar. Having done this, he went on pilgrimage to all the vaishnava shrines in the country. He went to Abhobilam and Tirupati. He went back to Tirupati as he welt the pooja arrangements were not proper. His grandson Alavandar Yamunait- turaivar or Yamunacharya. For the arrangements to become proper, he asked one of his disciples to volunteer to stay in the hill and conduct the worship in proper way. One of his grandsons Thirumalai Nambi volunteered to do the service. Thirumali Nambi settled down there and planted a garden and took upon himself to deliver water for the diety daily from a waterfall little distant from the temple. One of the young sisters that Thirumalai nambi took with him was married to one Kesava Somayaji of Sriperumbudur. The offspring of this marriage was Ramanuja. Ramanuja's date of birth, according to the traditional account of his life,is Kali 4118, A. D. 1017. The other date given of course is Saka 937 bya chronogram. Going by the story we have here ,the date has to be at the fag end of 11th century AD. The same sources give date of Nadamuni to 3684, which would mean A. D. 582-83. So these date cannot be trusted. Ramanuja visted the tirupati temple once in his chilhood. The temple after Thirumalai Nambi was managed well except during one time of Gopinath. The local ruler Yadavaraja found some dispute between Shaivas and Vaishnavas regarding the temple and called in court the warring parties to settle the matter. Ramanuja explained clearly that the temple is vaishnavite and the matter was settled that the temple was Vaishnavite. And the Vaishnavites were given more unoccupied land in the base of the hill for settlement. So through the discussion we have seen that the Ramanuja is in 11th and possibly extended to 12 century. So the earliest dispute seems to be between Shaivites and vaishnavites, which has been decided in favour of Thirupati being Vishnu temple.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Conclusion is that the Tirupati is a Vishnu temple all along. Since the temple has been built in 9th century AD. It is after 9th century AD that the hill is said to be holy place. So any account which says that the hill is holy(sri or Thiru venkata) is after 9th century AD. This applies any work or devote singing on Tirupati. The dispute seems to be primarily between Shivite and Vaishnavite, because of the Shiva Temple at the base of Tirupati which predate the Tirupati temple. Indologist seems to have introduced some confusion here. There are no inscriptions about Tripati temple, before 9th century AD, because the temple did not exist then, not because it was a Buddhist Shrine.&lt;br /&gt;
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References&lt;br /&gt;
Tirupati Balaji was a Buddhist Shrine&lt;br /&gt;
by K. Jamanadas&lt;br /&gt;
History of Holy Shrine of Sri venkatesa in Tirupati by  Krishnaswamy Aiyangar&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Photos&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.tirumala-tirupati.com/"&gt;Tirupati Tirumala &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.cauverycrafts.com/"&gt;Cauvery Crafts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.ramanuja.org/"&gt;Ramanuja&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.divyadesam.com/"&gt;Divyadesam &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.tripadvisor.com/"&gt;TripAdvisor &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/origin-of-vijayanagar-rulers.html"&gt;Vijaynagar Empire origin &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.blogger.com/goog_61947870"&gt;Myth of Tamil Sangam&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/05/great-myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil.html"&gt;Date of Silapathikaram &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-pallavas.html"&gt;Origin of Pallavas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-murugan-tamil-god.html"&gt;Murugan&amp;nbsp; Tamil God&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/skanda-muruga-karthikeya-shanmuga.html"&gt;Shanmuga Karthikeya  Muruga  Skanda&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/06/date-of-purananooru.html"&gt;Date of Purananooru&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/date-of-karikal-chola.html"&gt;Date of Karikala&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-buddha-image.html"&gt;Origin of Buddha Image&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/07/is-tirupati-balaji-temple-buddist.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQIhe35MTolDGtRWVcbtIEygk9rjJTFkhhaSRTVNAXy3nysVkHI0jPqx-LQotPVXOGPrJyOnr7bi5kgJoCf02k6XRdnp4AD51YlPTkEval4T7BhJsJxu9bNjWRrTNDo6jjwsihgKmBT8h2/s72-c/Tirupati+Temple.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>33</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-4484252716915736870</guid><pubDate>Tue, 05 Apr 2011 09:28:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2012-01-31T20:37:39.219+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Abhira</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Andhra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Banvasi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hathigumpha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kalidasa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">kamasutra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">karnataka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kharvela</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">kuntala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Magadha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maharastra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Malwa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">patanjali</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Rig veda</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">sanskrit</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Satakarni</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Satavahana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vatsyayana</category><title>Dating Vatsyayana's Kamasutra</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
Vatsyayana Kamasutra played a significant role in the history of Indian Literature, particularly Sanskrit Kavya literature in which Shringara rasa(Erotic sentiment) was one of the main rasas to be evoked by the poet. The tradition in erotics grew in association  with esoteric religious practices in later Vedic period, but acquired an independent status by the the time of Babhravya of the panchala region, a pre vatsyayana authority on the subject, who traces his work to nandikeshava and Uddalaka shvetaketu. Similar to Babhravya , we have charayana, suvarnanabha, Ghotakamukha, Gonardiya, Gonikaputra,Dattaka and Kuchumara specialized in seven section namely sadharana, Samprayogika, kanyasamprayuktaka, bharyadhikarika, paradarika,vaishika and aupanishadika. Vatsyayana while condensing the individual contributions of Dattaka and others, retained the general scheme of Babhraya in his comprehensive work called kamasutra. Vatsyayana kamasutra became the standard and definitive work on the subject for years to come. It has eclipsed the previous writings on the subject and became the basis of later Kamashastras of 10th century AD.Learning of Kamasutra was mandatory in ancient and  medieval India along with Dharmasastra and arthasastra. A Good poet were required to be proficient in knowledge  of erotics as well as poetics, logic, grammer and other technical sciences. The work is Sanskrit Sutra Style.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Dated between 4th century BC to 4th century AD.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vatsyayana mentions Grhya and Dharma Sutras , the Arthasastra of Kautilya  and the Mahabhashya of Patanjali.  Arthasastra is similar to Kamasutra and both cannot be separated by more than a century or so.They quote the same rare authorities like Charayana and Ghata(ka) mukha. Shamasastri quotes common  passages in Arthasastra and Kamasastra. Kalidasa quotes Arthasastra in Sakuntala. Shamasastry also says that Kautilya did not know Panini. Varahamitra Brihatsanhita quotes Vatsyayana ,so the lowest limit can be 6th century AD.  Shama Shastri says that Vatsyayana flourished between 137 AD to 209 AD, while Bhandarkar places him around 100 AD, and Keith before 4th century AD. A.K. Warder suggests that Kamasutra was probably produced in 3rd century AD. Doniger and Kakar (2003) almost agree with Warder by assuming that kamasutra must have been composed after 225 AD. Vatsyayana has referred  king Satakarni  by name. According to Puranas Kuntala Satakarni was 13th Andhra king in Satavahana dynasty. He was son of Mrgendra Svatikarna and he ruled in Kali era 2487-2481 (615-607 BC). The Satavahanas flourished till second century BC. So what is the date let us find out.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Two Vatsyayanas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
One Vatsyayana also called Mallanaga, earlier than kalidasa wrote Kamasutra and belonging to Avanti to Banavasi. THe other Vatsyayana wrote Nyaya-Bhaya, a well known exposition on Nyayasutra. The latter is supposed by some scholars to have flourished about fourth century AD in Bihar, but not much is known. The Style of NYaya Bhasya resembles the Mahabhasya and is also comparable to Vartikas in the Astadhyayi. Subandhu, in his well-known prose-romance Vasavadatta refers to Mallanaga as the author of Kamasutra. Yasodhara, the author of Jayamangala, the most authentic commentary available in Sanskrit on this work, also says at the very outset of his commentary that the real name of the author of Kamasutra is Mallanaga, and , he again says that Vatsyayana is just the family name of the author of this text and the name given to him through Samskara (ritual for naming) is Mallanaga.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Mallanga&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
His name is sometimes confused with Mallanaga, the prophet of the Asuras, to whom the origin of erotic science is attributed. This is an error; as Danielou says -The attribution of the first name Mallanaga to Vatsyayana is due to the confusion of his role as editor of the Kama Sutra with that of the mythical creator of erotic science&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Literary works&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Babhravya of Panchala region&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Babhravya of panchala region is pre vatsyayana authority who traces his works to uddalaka shvetaketu and Nandikeshavara. M M shastri identifies Savataketu Aryneya the highly cultured Philosopher of Upanishads. The Rig veda shows well organised family life with institution of Marriage fully developed in India, therefore the age of the institution of marriage developed should have preceded Rig veda by a very long period, since Rig veda does not discuss any development of the Institution. So the age of Svetaketu Aruneya - an age of of intense metaphysical speculation when the Upanishad literature grew, could certainly not be identical with it.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Auddalaki &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vatsyayana quotes Auddalaki three places. One belongs to Samprayoga, another Paradarika and third Vaisika, the third is the longest quotation. Vatsyayana says Rig veda was called Dasatayi and he does not mention Auddalaki at all. Madhavavarman - II, a king of Ganga dynasty wrote a Vrtti on Datakasutras. He was the fifth ancestor of king Durvinita and lived around 380 AD. A fragment of his Vrtti has survived. So Auddalakai is prior to atleast 380AD. Besides these authors, Vatsyayana refers to the views of Babhravya, Ghotakamukha, Gonardiya, Gonikaputra, Carayana, refers to the views of Bharavya, Ghotakamukha, Gonardiya, Gonikaputra, Carayana, Ouddalaki and Suvarnanabha(All before 2nd century BC) very often in his text. He also cites the school of Babharavya or the followers of Babhravya. It seems that the texts of these Acaryas were available to Vatsyayana. But as time passed, these texts by his predecessors were made obsolete by his own work – Kamasutra. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Arthasastra &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The work follows in the footsteps of Kautilya, the author of Arthasastra, It has seven Adhikaranas or books, 36 chapters, and 64 Prakaranas or topics. Its extent in slokas is a thousand and a quarter. But unlike Kautilya, it gives the tradition of the Sastra first, and then gives its contents. Kautilya does not give the tradition at all. They are to be inferred from his quotations.&amp;nbsp; Hemacandra's Abhidhanacintamani and Yadavaprakasa's Vaijayanti say that  Vatsyayana, Mallanaga, Kautilya,  Paksilasvami etc. are the names of one and the same person. Another name  associated with the authorship of kamasutra is that of Kamandaka, the famous  author of a work Kamandakiya on ethics.  We can conclude that both these works stand close to each other in  respect of their period of composition. M. Krishnamachariar therefore  places Vatsyayana the author of Kamasutra in 4th or 3rd century BC.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Kamasutra Tradition &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The tradition of the kamasutra is exceedingly interesting. It says that Prajapati after the creation, delivered a work in one hundred thousand chapters on the three aims of human life. These three aims are : — Dharma, Artha and Kama (Law, Economics and Erotics ) Manu separated the portion assigned to Law and Vrhaspati that to Economics ,Nandi the follower of Mahadeva separated Erotics in one thousand chapters. Auddalaki Svetaketu abridged Erotics in live hundred chapters. Babhravya abridged Svetaketu's work in one hundred and fifty chapters divided into seven Adhikaranas or books, namely, :- (i) Sadharana (preliminary), (ii) Samprayogika (union), (iii) Kanyasamprayuktaka (induc- ing of girls), (iv) Bharyyadhikaranika (section about a wife) (v) Paradarika (adultery) (vi) Vaisika (about public women) (vii) Aupaniadika (secrets). &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Gonikaputra &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gonardiya and Gonikaputra have been referred in the Mahabhasya of Patanjali. Kancinatha, a later author on Kamasastra also quotes from Gonikaputra, so that the work of Gonikaputra might have existed during his times. Jyotirisa, another author in Karnasastra also knew of Gonikaputra.Natyasastra prof. Batuknath Bhattacharya says it is hard to believe that kamasutra was later than Natyasastra. He says considering the style in which it is composed- distinctly Aphoristic in nature and reminiscent of Sutra period(600-200BC). Vatsyayana divides men into sasa , vrsa , Asva and woman into Mrgi,Badava, Hastini from their different capacities of Samproyoga.  While Bhrarta in Natyasastra divides women into 24 varieties based on Aestheic, intellectual and Moral Standards.  Kamasutra does not mention Natyasastra.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Dattaka&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
On the request of Pataliputra courtesans, Acharya Dattaka wrote work on Courtesans is used by Vatsyayana for kamasutra. Now Dattaka work is not avaialable in complete gives the vivid details of Pataliputra courtesans. The way Dattaka is mentioned in Kamasutra, it can be safely assumed that Dattaka preceded Vatsyayana by a couple of centuries. But Bana of Harshacharita quotes Dattaka, so the book was still in existence during Bana Period. &lt;br /&gt;
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The story of dattaka is very interesting. A Brahmin from Mathiira migrated to Pataliputra. A son was born to him at his old age. The mother died at child bed, and the  father gave the child to a Brahmani, who named him Dattaka (because he was given to her). The boy grew up, acquired a knowledge of all the Sastras and all the fine arts. On account of his great skill in the exposition of the Sastras, he became famous as Dattakacaryya. Attaining maturity, he was anxious to learn the ways of the world, which, he thought, could be best learnt from public-women. So he went to their quarters every day and learned their ways. So thoroughly did he learn, that at last they used to come to him for advice in matters erotic. Then Virasena and other noted courtesans of Pataliputra requested him to write a treatise on the art of winning lovers.&lt;br /&gt;
Father of Dattaka came from Mathnra to Pataliputra and the Brahmana who came there seem to have been attracted by the fact that it was the capital of a big monarchy. Now why are we going so much into Dattaka, because it is during his time the pataliputra was capital, so who was the king at that time.According to Puranas Pataliputra became capital during Guptas.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Kalidasa&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vatsyana date may be uncertain ,but it is earlier than Kalidasa. But kalidasa does not talk about vatsyayana, but we have very similar techniques in kalidasa works, this may be from a common source. Kalidasa reveals the knowledge of  erotics in the description of Yaksha's wife's svapnasamgama(Union in Dream), in which he specifies the exact period of kamasastra and many other instances as well.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Avagosha&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Avagosha the buddist poet makes daring ride into Amorous depictions. The Avagosha seems to well versed with topics in Kamasastra and in Buddhacarita he describes the courtesans of Nanda king and also love-dalliance with his wife Sundari before his conversion to Buddhism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Historical People and Places.  &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Abhiras&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vatsyayana mentions Abhiras and Andhras ruling side by side. He Speaks of Abhira Kottaraja Jayatsena, king of kotta in Gujarat, who was killed by Washerman employed by his brother. Then Again in the chapter on conduct of Woman confined to Harems, he describes the sexual abuses practiced in the seraglio of the Abhira kings among others. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
King Isvarasena, son of Abhira sivadatta is mentioned as the ruling soverign in on one of the inscriptions. Now we have to get the date for inscriptions. Isvaradatta coins have been found in Malwa, Gujarat and Kathiwad(Saurastra). So there are no kshatrapas during this period. In the Inscription Abhira king names Madhariputra Isvarasena found at Nashik, Madhariputra Isvarasena is described as the son of sivadatta. It records the gift of sakani visnudatta, daughter of saka Agnivarman, wife of the Ganapaka Rebhila and mother Ganapaka visvavarman, of three investments of 2000,1000 and 500 Karspanas in the trade guilds of Govardhana for the purpose of providing medicines for the sick buddhist monks living at the monestery on mount Trirasmi. Following things can be deduced from the inscription&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Sivadatta is not given any royal Honorific, so Isvarasena is first king of his line.&lt;br /&gt;
2. Satavahana mode of dating&lt;br /&gt;
3. Satavahanas are living in western maharastra and Guajarat possibly in the service of the Abhira lord.&lt;br /&gt;
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Gunda inscription, shows the Abhira general Rudrabhuti referring to Rudrasimha as Ksatrapa, ignoring the existence of any Mahasatrapa altogether. This shows that though not assuming any higher title, the Abhira general was the de facto ruler in the state. Gerneral Rudrabhuti is described as the son of general Bapaka. &lt;br /&gt;
We have Inscription of Abhira Vasusena of the year 30 at NagarjunaKonda. We dont have any knowledge of Abhira ruling Guntur region, but the Inscripion is not about Pilgirmage. Kadamba King Mayurasarma (340-360AD) refers to a fight with Abhiras and Trikutakas (We dont know if Trikutakas are subordinates or overlords of Abhiras). But we don't have any evidence in inscriptions or Puranas of Abhiras and Andhras ruling side by side. In the Chapter Isvarakamita or the The Lust of the Rulers.  Abhiras had been found from Mahabharata days. Abhiras had been found along with Alexander. Abhiras has been mentioned by Ptolemy. So dating Vatsyayana using Abhiras is not possible. And we have to find a period when Sakas were not there. Only Satavahanas and Abhiras were there. And Malwa is different from Abhira. So we can't date Vatsyayana to Gunda Inscription 180AD, when Abhira rule was in Malwa. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Saka, Bhoja, Gupta&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vatsyayana refers to Abhiras and Andhras lived side by side. And no mention of Sakas  Vatsyayana refers to the scandal by Dandakya , the Bhoja who must have lived many centuries prior to him.&amp;nbsp; Guptas are not mentioned in Kamasutra. We have seen Bhoja's and Mahabhoja are just the titles of kings like Raja and Maharaja. Guptas are not mentinoed but the capital is mentioned as Pataliputra.&lt;br /&gt;
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Vatsyayana mentions southern countries to be south of Karnata visaya and Vanavaso visya was east of Gokarna and Vaijayanti(Modern Banavasi) is place of his composition.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Satakarni&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
R. G . Bhandarkar points out that Kuntala Satkarni. According to Puranic list of Andhra's, Kuntala Svati or Svatikarna is the thirteenth in the descent from Simuka founder of the family. Vatsyayana has to be nearer to Kuntala satkarni because the sex scandal seems to be very fresh in presenatioan. K P Jayaswal points out Sri Malla Satakarni, the third monarch from the list with Hathigumpha inscription of Khravela. The difference between Kuntala and Malla is 168 Years from puranas. Again from Puranas Gautamiputra Satakarni is separated from him by 133years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Vatsyayana mentions how Satakarni of Kuntala killed his queen Malayaevati with an instrument called kartari by striking her in the passion of love and vatsyayana quotes this case to warn people of the danger arising from some old customs of striking women when under influence of passion.. Vatsyayana mentions kuntala as tht country with Vaijayanti(Banavasi) as the capital. According to Puranas Kuntala Satakarni was 13th Andhra king. He was son of Mrgendra Svatikarna and he ruled in Kali era 2487-2481 (615-607 BC). The Satavahanas flourished till 3rd century BC.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Countries Mentioned &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The  tribes and tribal countries mentioned by him are Andhras,  Vatsagulmakas, Vaidarbhas, Apaiantakas, Saurastrikas, Abhirakas, Strairajyakas, Gaudas, Saindhavas, Haimavatas, Pracyas, Vangas, Angas, Kalingas, Xagarakas, Madhyadesa- kas Valhikas, Avantikas, Malavas, Abhiras, the land en- closed by six rivers (with the Sindhu as the sixth). Lata, Kosala, Saketa, Ahicchatra, Saurasena Mahaiastra, Dravida, Vaaavasika and Cola. The commentator gives some accurate directions for finding out these countries or the habitations of these tribes. Vatsyayana describes various forms of sexual abuse practised by the kings. The Kings are Aparantakas, Vaidarbhas, Saurashtrakas, Vatsagulmakas and Andhras. The Andhras mentioned here is not the Imperial Andhras ,but Andhrabhrtyas or servants of Andhra dynasty. Among them Vastsyayana mentions Abhiras, Gardabinas,sakas.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Literary works&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Prof Bhattacharya remarks that all the predecessors like Bhabharvya are before 4th century BC, while vatsyayana is pushed back to 3rd or 4th century AD. As Prof Bhattacharya says all the works that Vatsyayana quotes are in 4th century to 3rd Century BC. Vatsyayana does not quote Natyasastra. Varahamihira mentions Kamasutra, Virahamihira dated around 6th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Saka&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Saka's are mentioned in Kamasutra, the period of sakas we know is between 6nd century BC(Darius) to 1st century AD(Saka Era). So Kamasutra can be any period between these dates, as it does not mention any Huns.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Andhra and Andhrabritya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Only known king mentioned is Satakarni.. Shatakarni as such seems to be important position like commander of battalion in Andhra dyansty hierarchy.  Now who is is this satakarni. Let us go to the basic identities. According to Puranas there are Andhra's and Andhrabritya's.  However for Indology both are same. The puranas mention Andhras ruled Magadha before Guptas and dating is before 300BC. After start of Gupta rule, they Andhras lost power but Andhrabritya's (Servants of Andhra's) that is commanders, feudatories and Generals continue to rule as separate entities.  Andhrabritya's are Ikshvakus, Abhiras, Chutu Nagas etc. While Andhras ruled from Magadha with Girivraja (Rajgir) as the capital. Andhrabritya's were confined to south of Vindhyas and Malwa. Without going any further let us treat Andhrabritya as different from Andhras. Now we have Satakarni, one of the Andhrabritya ruling in kuntala region. Also we have a Satakarni mentioned in Hathimgumpha inscription by Kharvela. Remember Kharvela when invading Magadha ransacks Capital Rajgir, not Pataliputra. So during Andhra shatakarni time the Magadha capital was still Rajgir.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEip0cFO0ci9g_xE20G1vVPuz1dyUXZ-rH9IkfP_DIDkUzdw_ufTzoAMMfMwwKN6Iv493f0S-coykY5kr7wFU1cLgx1x0wPfrFPAGoNVlWE6sZfMdTSFIVs0PUq8rTKhWfNNAY5ijg_HlV0t/s1600/Gupta+Sculpture.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEip0cFO0ci9g_xE20G1vVPuz1dyUXZ-rH9IkfP_DIDkUzdw_ufTzoAMMfMwwKN6Iv493f0S-coykY5kr7wFU1cLgx1x0wPfrFPAGoNVlWE6sZfMdTSFIVs0PUq8rTKhWfNNAY5ijg_HlV0t/s1600/Gupta+Sculpture.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
One line of Andhrabritya Chutu Nagas have marital relation with Andhras. So we can see Andhra names in this Naga line as well. Megasthanes discusses about Andhras in south.  So by time of Megasthanes the Andhra dynasty in Magadha  is finished and already Andhrabritya's are ruling. As per Puranas Chutu Nagas are ruling in most parts of central and southern India. But shatakarni was ruling from kuntala. So we defintely speaking about one from kuntala or karnataka region. This Shatakarni is not before 300BC, but later. The Ashoka rock edict mention about satyaputo. We have already seen in Satavahana article,  shatakarni means son of Sata, Satyaputo also means the same.  Since both are same, we can come to a conclusion that Satyoputo in Edict means Andhrabritya. The chutus Nagas, who had marital relations with Andhras can be called satyoputo's.   We know Saka rule ended in 78AD Saka era. So From these accounts we can say that Shatakarni of kamasutra can have ruled between 4th century BC to 1st century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kamasutra as inferred from literary sources to be after 3rd century BC as it quotes Arthasastra. Kamasutra is slightly ahead in literary style&amp;nbsp; than Kalidasa. We have already put kalidasa to be around 50BC. Now the Saka's are ruling upto 1st century AD. Our identification of Shatakarni or Abhira has hit a dead end. The Pataliputra became capital during Guptas. Now Guptas are dated to 4th and 5th century AD. So we have to date Dattaka to be that period. Then when do you date Kamasutra. This is now Indology dates ties us up in knots. We can very clearly see Guptas to be dated to 4th and 3rd century BC. So the dating of Vatsyayana Kamasutra will be century later that Dattaka (3rd Century BC) and Century Earlier than Kalidasa(1st century BC), that is 2nd century BC.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Source&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Social life in ancient India: studies in Vatsyayana's Kama Sutra By Haran Chandra Chakladar&lt;br /&gt;
The Positive Background of Hindu Sociology : 'Introduction to Hindu Positivism By Benoy Kumar Sarkar&lt;br /&gt;
Some early dynasties of South India&amp;nbsp; By S. Chattopadhyaya&lt;br /&gt;
Foreign influence on ancient India&amp;nbsp; By Krishna Chandra Sagar&lt;br /&gt;
The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland&amp;nbsp; 1911&lt;br /&gt;
Kamasutra Of Vatsyayana by Radhavallabh Tripathi&lt;br /&gt;
The Encyclopaedia Of Indian Literature&amp;nbsp; By Amaresh Datta&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Related Links&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html"&gt;Date of Kalidasa&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-satavahana-andhra-myth.html"&gt;Origin of Satavahana&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthanes Meet Chandragupta&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/04/dating-vatsyayanas-kamasutra.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEisFVC0c4PpUp9He9wHJTMcxLhn3EcmjuogZqKJwPuGbse8GsPSQPYyp-LKBNkJ_qoF0pMwIE1fpNc9TgT9psHiWJE85a-qEWJ-tx3ldk8Z7_GqYyVVYzZ7JIVzaWRqKd2h62lcZO7oGSX2/s72-c/Erotic+Sculpture+Tripurantakesvara+Temple+Balligavi+Shimoga.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>4</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-8073308352267720892</guid><pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:52:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2014-03-28T15:53:33.692+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Abhira</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Andhra</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chalukya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ganga</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kadamba</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mukhari</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pallava</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Salankayana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Telugu</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Trikuta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vakataka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">vishnukundin</category><title>Reign of  VishnuKundin</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
The Vishnukundina Empire (Telugu: విష్ణుకుండిన సామ్రాజ్యము) was one of the Middle kingdoms of India, controlling the Deccan, Orissa and parts of South India during the 5th and 6th centuries, carving land out from the Vakataka Empire. It played an important role in the history of the Deccan during the 5th and 6th centuries CE. &lt;br /&gt;
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With pulikesin II coming to power in South India and Harshavardhana&amp;nbsp; in North India, Indian chronology becomes very clear. The chronologies of&amp;nbsp; Earlier dynasties who ruled the country especially south India unclear. Indologists having introduced Satavahanas just before 3rd century AD, have found a number of dynasties ruling at the same place at almost same time. Unable to come to terms with this new realities, Indologists have called these dynasties phantom dynasties. One of the Phantom Dynasties is Vishnukundin. Is it a phantom dynasty, whose period cannot be fixed, whose origin cannot be fixed?&lt;br /&gt;
Let us see&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Origin&lt;/b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vinukonda&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vishnukundina is a Sanskritized name for Vinukonda. Kielhorn  suggested a connection of the name of the family with that of the  hill-fort and town of Vinukonda in the Krishna district,  about 60 miles east of Srmaila and 50 miles south of  the Krishna river. Vinukonda, according to Kielhorn, was  possibly the early home of the Visnukundins. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;u&gt;Srisailam&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Tummalagudern plates describe the members of  the Vishnukundi family as Srlparvatlyas. That is of Srisailam. In fact all the grants except Madhavavarman I call themselves as the devotees of sriparvata.  So their origin is mainly Sriparvata or Srisailam.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Ayodya Origin&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
One theory states that they are of Koundinya gotra of Kshatriyas who migrated from Ayodhya (Oudh) during the early 5th century.  But we have evidence to back up this theory. Theory deriving the name from 'Vishnukunda' fire-pit-the theories connecting it with the 'Vishnukundi' river.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Western (Karnataka) origin&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman II has been described in this inscription as trikuta-malay-adhipati, " lord of Trikuta  Malaya.  Is this Trikuta refers to Trikutas. Experts say that they may assisted the overloards Vatakatas against Trikutas. But to say Lord of Trikutas puts it beyond their capabilities.  Vatakata Narendrasena and Harisena who defeated Trikutas ruled the same time as Madhavavarman and the claim may be due to this relation. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiz-566Lk4c5Nbaqg-2PEAr-JZ_Kw2zhMveJBheSW4To7Sf02AwhDY3pVz9DHRFtfrJnNxfjse-e4bP1s2xbt77ndpVe8qQfjQChzItvqA13hiFqUjE0DNx-dxpMDMTw0b9kYzuSCXrxmpN/s1600/Alampur+Temple+Chalukya.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiz-566Lk4c5Nbaqg-2PEAr-JZ_Kw2zhMveJBheSW4To7Sf02AwhDY3pVz9DHRFtfrJnNxfjse-e4bP1s2xbt77ndpVe8qQfjQChzItvqA13hiFqUjE0DNx-dxpMDMTw0b9kYzuSCXrxmpN/s200/Alampur+Temple+Chalukya.jpg" height="141" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
On the basis of Indrapalanagara grants, B.N. Sastri assumes that the earlyrulers of the dynasty migrated to the west in search of employmentand under the Vakatakas they might have attainedfeudatory status with Indrapalanagara in the Nalgonda districtas their capital.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Central Indian Origin&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Trikuta is identified as Tagara (Maharastra), Mahendragiri(Ganjam Dist) and Amaroati(MP) and said they are from Central regions. But the evidences are lacking.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Vatakata origin&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman I married a Vatakata princess and they occupy the vakataka areas of srisailam after the demise of vatakatas. So this leads to the speculation that they are related to Vatakatas and they are protege of Vatakatas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We come to the conclusion that the original home of Vishnukundin is Vinukonda in Andhra and they were a local dynasty. They were devotees of Srisailam. Malaya in the inscription can been taken to be the Srisailam hills.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span id="goog_1820030765"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span id="goog_1820030766"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Period of VishnuKundins &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Temples&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vishnukudin cave temples are similar to Early Pallava , orissan and Kadamba Cave temples.&amp;nbsp; So VishnuKundins are of Early Pallava Period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Chalukya  Conquest of Vengi&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pulikesin II conquered vengi and went to kalinga , there he appointed Ganga officers for revenue collection and in 615AD  his kid brother and Yuvaraja  Kubja Vishnvardhan was appointed viceroy in Vengi. After this time there is no other Independent rulers in south India, other than Pallavas  and Harshavardhana in North. Chalukya empire stretched West coast to East coast. So 615AD is the last date of ending of Any Independent king who ruled in vengi. So who was ruling vengi before them. Harsha empire did not include Vengi. Harsha empire did not even touch Kalinga coast, then we have Pallavas, but we know pallavas are not ruling in vengi , their empire ruled south of Guntur. That leaves as to the vishnukudins. So the king who was defeated by Pulikesin is Vishnukundins. But we have Kubja vishnuvardhana brother presence around vengi in 609AD.  Eventhough Vishnukundins were deposed of their earlier stature by pulikesin, vishnukundins were found ruling as feudatories of Eastern Chalukyas even in 8th century AD. But let us this issue later.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
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&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Pallava&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Indrapalanagar grant of Vishnukundin king Vikramednra II , says that he broke the twig of pallavabhoga, that is defeated Pallava king Simha in Saka 488 (566 CE). The Pallava Simha has to be Simhavishnu (550-580). The Amaravati hold of Vishnukudins seems to be a brief one. Since Guntur was held by pallavas throughout vishnukudin era.  Again we have to note that Pallava Bhoga is identified as Ananda Gotrikas or Anandas ,but we have no evidence to back up this theory. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
We get geneology of kings from these Vishnukundin inscriptions&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;INSCRIPTIONS OF THE VISHNUKUNDINS :&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
1. Tummalagudem Plates (Set I) of Govindavarman Year 37&lt;br /&gt;
2. Velpuru Pillar Inscription of Madhavavarman , Year 33&lt;br /&gt;
3. Ipur Plates (Set I) of Madhavavarman, Year 37&lt;br /&gt;
4. Khanapur Plates of the Time of Madhavavarman &lt;br /&gt;
5. Ipur Plates (Set II) of Madhavavarman  Year 47&lt;br /&gt;
6. Ramatirtham Plates of Indravarman, Year 27&lt;br /&gt;
7. Chikkulla Plates of Vikramendravarman , Year 10&lt;br /&gt;
8. Tummalagudem Plates (Set II) of Vikramendravarman , Year 11, Saka 488&lt;br /&gt;
9. Kundulapalem Plates of Vikramendravarman , Year 14&lt;br /&gt;
10. Polamuru Plates (Sot I) of Madhavavarman &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEis9V2mtFizknWtA8jM43S6Vi9u2-ZfcJ6pB5TVrjtMbOrmivxjM4LpGGtnyzpBKj7yHdRA4xBrbR6RaHXRiCjMVnc8-hyXK6Mou-4NsQ0qNhuYOQPO-15ymhzOLwKmBGLlAmSwU_AK1nr8/s1600/bhairavakonda.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEis9V2mtFizknWtA8jM43S6Vi9u2-ZfcJ6pB5TVrjtMbOrmivxjM4LpGGtnyzpBKj7yHdRA4xBrbR6RaHXRiCjMVnc8-hyXK6Mou-4NsQ0qNhuYOQPO-15ymhzOLwKmBGLlAmSwU_AK1nr8/s1600/bhairavakonda.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Geneology&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Here is the kings list based on Velpuru pillar,  Ipur I, Ipur II, Ramatirtham, Chikkulla and Godavari Grants,Khanapur plates(Identification with Rastrakuta),Tumma-lagudem plates, set II,Kandulapalem plates&lt;br /&gt;
Govindavarman(Founder)&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman &lt;br /&gt;
Indravarman&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman  (Sainyabhitta)(Extended kingdom to coast) (Husband of Vatakata)&lt;br /&gt;
Govindavarman  &lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman  Janakaya (First Vishnukudin king of Vengi)(Destoryed Salankayana)&lt;br /&gt;
vikramahendravarman   (Defeated by Prithvimula of Kalinga)&lt;br /&gt;
IndraBhattaraka (Defeated Simha of Pallava)(Crosses the Godavari )&lt;br /&gt;
Vikramahendravarman   uttamaraya&lt;br /&gt;
Govindavarman &lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman (Janasraya)(Becomes Indpendent)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Constructing Geneology&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now the reign of last known ruler of Vishnukudin is Vikramahendra Varma II has to start 11 years before the Tummalagudem Plates(Saka 488 - 566AD) that is 555AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So Indravarman reign father of Vikramahendravarman. &lt;br /&gt;
Ramathirtham plates are issued 27th year of his reign, his reign cannot start later than 528AD(555AD-27). Even assuming short reign of 10 years after this plate, puts his accession to 517-518AD. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now to Vikramahendravarman I father of Indravarman&lt;br /&gt;
He did not give any Inscriptions, Assuming minimum 10 years to his reign we come to 508-518 for this rule.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtlV65lzNbNYi18BPg9pQr9M1W6OkZnm7FcLh-ffm0eVsMMYyDT9NUvuio8pFt9LvejzTdidvlzqOCRzTwEtcXc0kWHEAEgChS7qr85MhXqSoFHMxqPfH2So_e0UpcWXHnnVgpN-dn67lg/s1600/Undavalli+Statues.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtlV65lzNbNYi18BPg9pQr9M1W6OkZnm7FcLh-ffm0eVsMMYyDT9NUvuio8pFt9LvejzTdidvlzqOCRzTwEtcXc0kWHEAEgChS7qr85MhXqSoFHMxqPfH2So_e0UpcWXHnnVgpN-dn67lg/s200/Undavalli+Statues.jpg" height="141" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Now coming to his father Madhavavarman I, his Polamaru plates(Eighth Year of Reign) cannot be dated before 478AD or  his accession 470AD. Now Ipur plates are issued in 37th year of his regime. Ajaya Mitra Shastri says that Madhavavarman I reign is between 487-528AD. We can deduce that Madhavavarman  regime to be between 470-507AD. We know Madhavavarman extended the kingdom to the coast(Vengi). But we don't have any evidence to back the theory he defeated Salankyana's. So cannot link him to dating of Salankyana's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not much achievement is given by inscriptions on Devavarman father of Madhavavarman, except he is respected as mularaja(founder) and his crown queen is held in high esteem. So giving him a minimum decade or two , we can say the Vishnukundins started their regime in 455AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Let us go to the pain (Problem) points&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;u&gt;Trivara and Madhavavarma&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman Janasraya gives in  his inscription both in Ipur Plates and Polamuru Plates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Trivaranagara-bhavana-gata-yuvati-hrdaya-nandanah.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meaning The Delighter of the hearts of the young ladies in the palace(Palaces) of Trivaranagara. Scholars point out that Madhavavarman did not undertake any military expedition to trivarnagara, but only resided there. one of the scholar identifies Tiruvuru to be in krishna Dist.  Some scholars identify Trivara to be three cities and it refers to Madhavavarman capturing three cities or simply it refers to three affluent cities of his kingdom,where he had palaces full of girls. We will go Traivaranagara and Trivaradeva in another article. The term does not seem to hold any significance in the present context.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Fall of Vatakatas&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-bVXIqtZvsEj7YgXBLXVad96NN47uAuy553niy9beHKc6nKQ8EbdljPxlna-99e2XER_RbyhkOfWHsoWx7cT45vgnk5BhYbobHFPMK6XF5BLGx0j9m3loOPF6crIFG-0hD0pyKjaohcvT/s1600/Vatakata+Statues+of+Ajanta.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-bVXIqtZvsEj7YgXBLXVad96NN47uAuy553niy9beHKc6nKQ8EbdljPxlna-99e2XER_RbyhkOfWHsoWx7cT45vgnk5BhYbobHFPMK6XF5BLGx0j9m3loOPF6crIFG-0hD0pyKjaohcvT/s200/Vatakata+Statues+of+Ajanta.jpg" height="186" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
One more question that Vishnukudins comes into play is fall of vatakatas. The theory is Madhavavarman I became too powerful and occupied the vatakata empire. This theory is based on the khanapur plates, where one madhavavarman is said to have made elevan asvamedha 's and thousand Agnistomas etc. As this is plate is given in Maharastra, And Madhavavarman of this plate is identified with Vishnukudin Madhavavarman and the conclusion drawn that Vishnukudins gave death blow to Vatakatas. However scholars dimiss this Madhavavarman to be different and they say that no other record of vishnukudin is found Maharastram, And Also Chikkulla  plates of vishnukudin say Madhavavarman(535AD) is son in law of Vishnukudin. But one possibility may be Madhavavarman might have defeated Vatkatas and also got the daughter of vatakata in marriage as a peace proposal, Another possibility may be, He married vatakata princess and inherited the kingdom.  But we have see that Vatatakata Prithvisena II's Mother is Kadamba origin, so any usurping of rule from Prthvisena or his successor would have got the kadamba wrath. So defeat of Vatakata by Vishnukundin is just a myth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the death of Prithvisena II (main branch of vatakatas), Harisena of Basim(Western) branch of vatakatas became king of all vatakatas, as prithvisena II  did not leave any heir. Now we have to see madhavavarman in this context. The Vatakata princess may been married to him to keep peace on the eastern side. Prithvisena II is dated to 460-480AD,based on this Madhavavarman can be dated to 470-507AD.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span style="border-collapse: separate; color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Madhavavarman I regime&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now Prithvisena II date is confusion when he ruled, as Harisena of Basim branch ruled from 475 to 510AD and Prithivisena II died soon after Harisena ascended throne. And we have Harisena replacing the main line of vatakatas. We do not hear Harisena or his successors having marital relations with Visnukundins. So the Vatakata princess has to be daughter of Prithivisena II(Prithvisena II mother Kadamba). If there were any Son to Prithivisena II , kadambas may have come to their aid, if Madhavavarman I has defeated vatakatas. Based on this date and dates from the plates. let us  take Madhavavarman I regime to be 470-507AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Confusion in Indrapur Plates.&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Indrapura Plates I by vikramahendravarman give the geneology of vishnukundinas Govindavarman , his son Madhavavarman (Eleven Asvamedhas,several sacrifices such as Bahusuvarna, pundarika,vajpeya etc and husband of vatakata), his son vikramahendra (Devout follower of Buddha and great poet) , his son Indrabhattarkavarman(Lord of chakravartishetram by his victories over many four tusked elephants),his son vikramahendrabhattaarakavarman(Has Several Samantas) and he treated one Madhavaraja(forcibly ousted many kings , handsome and has several qualities like political wisdom and valour) as his own son, also we get paramabhattarikamahadevi (Crowned queen) of Govindaraja was born in the famous royal family of Prithvimula&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiX2eAZub4_6k2cKpVlfSYSaG9FxIAY5-d6VB5-Ox1F93IneqdclD3SFfSUGlocfVYHjUhz0AniEFoNjucugsevSYwVuEc2Pw_ziLTPzU8_vOuq04AF4cCuoEL19zfzBkTwg9ypaTdeq1AJ/s1600/VishnuKundin+Coins.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiX2eAZub4_6k2cKpVlfSYSaG9FxIAY5-d6VB5-Ox1F93IneqdclD3SFfSUGlocfVYHjUhz0AniEFoNjucugsevSYwVuEc2Pw_ziLTPzU8_vOuq04AF4cCuoEL19zfzBkTwg9ypaTdeq1AJ/s1600/VishnuKundin+Coins.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Indrapura Plate II , was issued by Govindavarman. The Indrapura plates II gives the geneology as Maharaja Indaravarman, his son Maharaja Madhavavarman, his son maharaja govindavarman (Made several grants to temples and viharas), the last king of the grant is dvarvembadala also known as penka, to the paramamahadevivihara at the instance of the crowned queen&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now these plates gives the following problems in genology.&lt;br /&gt;
1. Who is this madhavaraja and what part he played in making this grant.&lt;br /&gt;
2. How do the kings mentioned in Second grant relate to kings mentioned in First plates chronologically.&lt;br /&gt;
3. Were both Govindaraja's identical or same.&lt;br /&gt;
4. How was prithvimula related to Vishnukundins&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Let us try to solve this problem. Scholar Mirashi  says that Madhavavarman of First plate is kid brother of Vikramahendravarman of Second plates. This madhavavarman succeeded his brother after his death as he was without children and he is the madhavaraja of first plate. Madhavavarman II also served as the Yuvaraja of Vikramahendravarman II and won many battles and deposed many kings. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;u&gt;Mukhari&lt;/u&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In Jaunpur Inscription Isvaravarman describes himself who estinguished the spark of fire coming from dhara. Yasodharman is also of same period. So Spark of Malwa is Yasodharman and he was defeated by Isvaravarman. Yasodharman defeated Huns in 515AD, so the date of defeat of Yasodharman to Mukharis has to be post 515AD. &lt;br /&gt;
Now how Mukharis and Malwa Guptas(Not connected to Imperial Guptas) fight is legendary. Kumara gupta of Malwa(Son of Jivita Gupta) defeated Gaudas as per Damodurpur grant(543-544AD). Isnavarman won victory over Huns between (560-590AD).&lt;br /&gt;
Haraha Inscription(Vikrama 611 or 554AD) is as follows.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Jitv-Andhr- Adhipatim sahasra-ganita-tredha-ksharad-varanam&lt;br /&gt;
vyavalgan-niyut-ati-samkhya-turangan-bhanktva rane sulikan&lt;br /&gt;
kritvach-ayati-mau(mo)chita-sthalo-bhuvo Gaudan smudr-asraya&lt;br /&gt;
n-adhyasishta nata- kshitisa-charanah singha(mha) sanam yo jiti.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
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&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
He also defeated Andhra king(Vishnu kudin) as per the Haraha inscription. One more king he defeated is Sulikas, who identity is under dispute. Fleet believes Sulikas are Mulikas of Northwest Frontier, H.N Shastri Says they belong to Kalinga and Vidharba, Raychaudhari correctly identifies sulikas as branch of Chalukyas. Mahakuta inscription says Kirtivarman I (566 - 597AD) obtained victories over Anga , Vanga and Magadha.  So it has to be Chalukyas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgP_KX5VN3tEPuTeCPdL5EJmrFUUTzs1AohParzYCbV4JgpnA5mUc71sI-42ZUMdGztcxf6YeIrAjZR46xh8SQO26Pc4MY9d8k1sAyn_DAjfIHJkdeZ738j104DWILn3rkhHX9PA8lwceA/s1600/Amaravati+Seal.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgP_KX5VN3tEPuTeCPdL5EJmrFUUTzs1AohParzYCbV4JgpnA5mUc71sI-42ZUMdGztcxf6YeIrAjZR46xh8SQO26Pc4MY9d8k1sAyn_DAjfIHJkdeZ738j104DWILn3rkhHX9PA8lwceA/s1600/Amaravati+Seal.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Now Isnaravarman defeated Andhra king before his accession that is during the rule of his father isvaravarman. Now the date of Accession of Isnavarman is  550AD, so the the victory over Andhra king should have been before 550AD. Now the Indrapalanagara or Tummalagadem plates (Saka 488 or 566AD) given at 11th year of Vikramahendra varman II, Since the Andhra rules at the time of clash was not Vikramahendravarman, the clash should have taken place before 555AD.  Now his father Indravarman ruled for atleast 27years as per Ramathirtham plates(given at 27th year of accession). Even assuming just 27years as the reign , the date of accession cannot be earlier than 528AD. Indravarman's Father Vikramamahendravarman I often described as Maharaja left no inscriptions and if we assume the 10 years for his reign, he could have came to power 518AD that is before reign Isnavarman father Isvaravarman. So Madhavarman date preceding Vikramahendra I cannot have been defeated by Isnavarman. &lt;br /&gt;
This is a sticky point.  Did Isnavarman defeated the Andhra king or is it just a raid. If it was a raid than Isnavarman would have been beaten back and the Vishnukundins would have blown the trumphet as victory. So we have to take that Isnavarman did defeat Andhra king and It could have occurred during the reign of Indravarman. Whom I have conveniently named as Madhavavarman II, though we have no evidence that the Isnavarman defeated Andhra king.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not going to any other arguments we get the genology as follows. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Govindavarman I (Founder) (455-470AD)&lt;br /&gt;
Madhavavarman I  (470-507AD)(Extended Kingdom to Vengi)(Marital Alliance with Vatakatas)(Title Lord of Dakshin Chakravartishethram)&lt;br /&gt;
his son vikramahendra I (508-518AD)(Title Maharaja)(Ornament of Vakataka and Vishnukundin Dynasties)&lt;br /&gt;
his son Madhavavarman  Indrabhattarkavarman (Madhavavarman II)(518-554AD)(Contemproary of Mukhari Isvaravarman)&lt;br /&gt;
his son vikramahendra bhattaarakavarman (vikramahendra II) (555- 567AD)(Raided Pallavas of Guntur)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
his brother Madhavavarman III (567-578AD)&lt;br /&gt;
his son Govindavarman II (578-615AD) deposed by Pulikesin II&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Ganga Era&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The dates of Early Eastern Ganga Dynasty has been always questioned.  Nadagam plates of Vajrahasta state that Ganga rule was established by destorying Baladitya(467AD).  But we have no evidence to support this date or theory. There are two inscriptions of Early Eastern Ganga Dynasty. Hastivarma dated 80th year of Ganga Era is first king (Adhiraja) and Indravarman  dated 80th year of Ganga Era. Both are styled as the founders of Early Eastern Ganga Dynasty and devotees of Gokarna in  comforts of kalinganagara. Both grants are given by VinayaChandra son of Bhanuchandra. who is enemy of IndraBhattaraka How do you date this era.  &lt;br /&gt;
Mr.Ramadas dates to 350AD found on Salankyana Pedda Vegi. But the lettering and other things dont match.&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. Subba Rao of Rajamundary dates it to 450AD, based on the contention Indra varman of Achyuthapuram same as Indravarman Bhattaraka.But Visnukundins were ruling Kalinga at that time. We cannot date this to 540AD, because where will you place Prithvimula and Mukharis. &lt;br /&gt;
So the IndraBhattaraka has to be a Eastern Chalukya IndraBhattaraka. So Early Eastern Gangas came as Revenue Administrators to orissa under Chalukya Command is valid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span style="border-collapse: separate; color: black; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vishnukundinas are Local Andhra origin. Their Geneology has been given. Vishnukundins ruled from 450 to 615AD and during that time they were a force to reckon with. The vishnukundins are successors of Ikshavakus. They allied with Vakatakas and successfully fought with Pallavas and Salankayanas to expand the territories.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Sources&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Buddhist remains in Āndhra and the history of Āndhra between 224 &amp;amp; 610 A.D.By K. R. Subramanian&lt;br /&gt;
Inscriptions of the Śarabhapurīyas, Pāṇḍuvaṁśins, and Somavaṁśins: IntroductionBy Ajay Mitra Shastri&lt;br /&gt;
Some early dynasties of South India  By S. Chattopadhyaya&lt;br /&gt;
Vakataka - Gupta Age Circa 200-550 A.D.  By Ramesh Chandra Majumdar, Anant Sadashiv Altekar&lt;br /&gt;
Literary and historical studies in indology  By Vasudev Vishnu Mirashi&lt;br /&gt;
Cultural contours of India: Dr. Satya Prakash felicitation volume  By Satya Prakash, Vijai Shankar Śrivastava&lt;br /&gt;
The Vishnukundis and Their Times   by  S. Sankaranarayanan, T.V Mahalingam&lt;br /&gt;
THE  SUCCESSORS OF THE SATAVAHANAS  IN LOWER DECCAN  BY  DINESCHANDRA SIRCAR, M.A., PH.D.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Coin Network &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.theindiatube.com/"&gt;IndianTube&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts &lt;/b&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/08/origin-of-ikshvaku-dynasty.html"&gt;Ikshavaku&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2014/03/reign-of-salankayana.html#.UxqwFc5qO4r" target="_blank"&gt;Reign of Salankayana &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-pallavas.html"&gt;Pallava&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-is-kalinganagara.html"&gt;KalingaNagara &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-gangas.html"&gt;Eastern Gangas &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/07/controversy-regarding-antiquity-of.html"&gt;SriSailam&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/04/origin-of-word-telugu.html"&gt;Telugu Name&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/01/reign-of-vishnukundin.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgS9K0shgRzpwTSFoqunIB7Qy0MalBTuQcfDnAfhM09d8CVtcRQzSvqub0hKPpC6Gje9Vu02ATnvVu7DEZtgZIrM-yKkP7DMansvyO-dCtM32WqjwrOxTwYtseCay0qkM5kheiTgfzh8cTd/s72-c/Undavalli+caves.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>1</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-4504238449610330406</guid><pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 11:12:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2010-11-22T16:42:41.874+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Athiyaman</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Auvaiyar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Avvai</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chalukya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chola</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hoysala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kambar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kulothunga</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">kuntala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kurgan</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">murugan</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sangam</category><title>Who is Avvaiyar - Sangam Myth</title><description>&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMj-tTdtWe7_LbA0Oy0Esrzw0GvgUWVUe5Haxx3V4AqNxbKaPqXqnb_N2K6n6F6FgZcI7j-9J73Oieh-LECJpTyo4jZK0frN819PE1o5pJ2MIvPVrLSKFMAn5AhzdCSoinHBpXVH3SPmm5/s1600/The+image+of+Avvaiyar+at+Muppandal..jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMj-tTdtWe7_LbA0Oy0Esrzw0GvgUWVUe5Haxx3V4AqNxbKaPqXqnb_N2K6n6F6FgZcI7j-9J73Oieh-LECJpTyo4jZK0frN819PE1o5pJ2MIvPVrLSKFMAn5AhzdCSoinHBpXVH3SPmm5/s200/The+image+of+Avvaiyar+at+Muppandal..jpg" width="121" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Who is Avvai or Avvaiyar. If you search for Avvaiyar you will come with more than six Avvaiyars in history right upto the modern times. What we are interested in is the Avvaiyar mentioned in Tamil sangam literature. Chiefly our discussion comes to two persons. There is  a Avvaiyar belonging to Chalukya Chola Kulothunga III reign. There is a Sangam Literature Auvaiyar belonging to Athiyaman reign. Is this Auvaiyar of kulothunga times same as Sangam age Auvaiyar. That is the question we are looking into. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Avvaiyar &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Avvai is corruption in tamil of the term avve or avva (both Meaning Mother) in Kannada/Tulu not native to Tamil, indicating origin of legend of Avvaiyar to Karnataka.&lt;div&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9FZtc0Vef7mAKIqtuxiV3ugCffI514tCNLU-wF9QOZOlfyLGE9tGe9H0nPpdqtbv03XOaSRZAkUrpLPw9zujivHphd1wAPx39RnIzy_50xSCgtqt9fFxBEY4sWtocxSDLh6TVNWJwILsg/s1600/Painting+of+Muruga+and+Avvai.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="177" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg9FZtc0Vef7mAKIqtuxiV3ugCffI514tCNLU-wF9QOZOlfyLGE9tGe9H0nPpdqtbv03XOaSRZAkUrpLPw9zujivHphd1wAPx39RnIzy_50xSCgtqt9fFxBEY4sWtocxSDLh6TVNWJwILsg/s200/Painting+of+Muruga+and+Avvai.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Avvai Murugan &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Avvai and Muruga  (Subramanya) have lot of legendary stories. But we are not able to select a date for these stories. Auvaiyar is shown here as saivite and great devotee of Muruga. Another place Vinayaka (Ganesha) is the god of Avvai  and she gets sainthood at the young age by praying to him. Another place Avvai is called a jain. So there is no clear identification here and each sect seems to claim as their own.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Avvai Kural. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Athichudi is called avvai kural by some. Meaning that Thiruvalluvar and Auvaiyar lived during same period. But today Tamil scholars say that Atticudi was composed by avvaiyar of Kulothunga Period.&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kulothunga III (1178 to 1218AD)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDb6LtgdxocaBd9cnggTmrxbhSSef-4xWI7igvRlv8p6edH07G_2IVDOOrnxA7lG1x-Sbja7IVkL57Omd_4Q9Ze95FUoFNkTKtReZpFbI6AAj4dEbgrk1M3cQkM2q1J1eSVNXcmqywSubH/s1600/Kulothunga+Chola+III+Sculpture+Thiruvidaimaruthur%252C+Nagapattinam.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDb6LtgdxocaBd9cnggTmrxbhSSef-4xWI7igvRlv8p6edH07G_2IVDOOrnxA7lG1x-Sbja7IVkL57Omd_4Q9Ze95FUoFNkTKtReZpFbI6AAj4dEbgrk1M3cQkM2q1J1eSVNXcmqywSubH/s200/Kulothunga+Chola+III+Sculpture+Thiruvidaimaruthur%252C+Nagapattinam.jpg" width="154" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Ottakuttar(Uttarakandam,Takkayagapparani and Muvarula), Pugazendhi (Nalavenba), Avvaiyar(Atticudi,Konraivendam,Vinayagar Agaval, Mudurai and Nalvazhi) , Iraniyar(Kalaviyal), Kalladanar(Kalladam), Aiyanar(Purapporulvenbamalai), Puttamittiranar(Virachoziam), Divakarar(Diwankaram), Pingalar(Pingalandai) , Pavananti(nannul) and Kuttan(Nalayirakkovai, Parani,Tukkayagapparani, sarasvatiyandadi and Arumbaittollayiram) are all contemproaries in Chalukya Chola Kulothunga III court.  Ambarkilan Aruvandai is  patron of  Divarkar. At the end of his chapter Dirarkarar says his patron was also praised by Avvaiyar, the famous court poet of Adhiyaman Elini. From this it is evident that Divarkar, Kalladar , Avvaiyar and Adhiyaman Elini are contemproaries and They all belong to kulothunga period.  Since Divarkar praises Chalukyas, his contemproary Avvaiyar belongs to this kulothunga III period&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Who are Velir? &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Traditional accounts of Velir exactly fits Chalukyas, especially Kapilar description of velir. As the new branch of Chalukyas - Chalukya chola came into being, Chalukya and Chola legends mixed and we have lot of confusion.  Velirs are from Kuntala that is chalukya country. In kuntala : Kunta means spear same as vel. Thus people of kuntala becomes velir. As we have already seen Velir is Chalukya and Malaya is Hoysala in Sangam Literature in another article.&lt;div&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Let us go to Sangam Age Avvaiyar. To find the date of this Avvaiyaar, we have to find date of Adhiyamaan. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Adhiyaman Date &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Adhiyaman sent Auviyar as Ambassador to Thondaiman to prevent war. In Another instance Malayaman kari arch rival of Adigaman meets Avvaiyar and feeds her. This is Sangam Avvaiyar lived during period of Adigaman, Malayaman Kari and Thondaiman.  So if we find the dates of these kings, we will find the date of Auvaiyar.&lt;div&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiBhbttFaTustIuOVWYNKC9tYOyoKxD-lQyAR652KW7tZQF9mEc-V1AmZHkeAS3kYpolHs_9pj5o-n52bxFh8LWVXneSa3yYCmO9jI-gz4RlNy4YoMv14OoWVPUnP-WKwtBHAPC_GAbM9KM/s1600/Statues+of+King+Adhiyaman+and+Auvaiyar.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="114" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiBhbttFaTustIuOVWYNKC9tYOyoKxD-lQyAR652KW7tZQF9mEc-V1AmZHkeAS3kYpolHs_9pj5o-n52bxFh8LWVXneSa3yYCmO9jI-gz4RlNy4YoMv14OoWVPUnP-WKwtBHAPC_GAbM9KM/s200/Statues+of+King+Adhiyaman+and+Auvaiyar.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;By 1186–87, Kulothunga Chola III had wound up his expedition against the Pandyan kingdom, but he had to immediately deal with the incursion of the Hoysala Veera Ballala II. Kulothunga Chola III immediately set off for 'Kongu to check the growth of Hoysala power in that quarter. He fought successfully against Veera Ballala II in 1187–88, re-established  his suzerainty over Adigaman chiefs of Tagadur, defeated a Chera ruler in battle and performed a virabhisheka in Karuvur in 1193. An Inscription by Kulothunga III in Ranganatha temple in Monolithic cave temple of Namakkal Hills gives detailed description of the campaign and also names Adigaman.&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In another inscription in the Kailasanathaswami  temple in  Kulothunga Chola III mentions thondaiman. Specifies  in his twenty-third year the extent of the devaddana lands below  the tanks Sirreri and Periyeri at Arumbar, as fixed by Tondaiman  Perumalpillai alias  Sedirayadevan.  Sedirayadevan looks like Sadaiyan who gave patronage to Kamban. Again same period as Avvaiyar.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So Adhiyaman or Adigaman and Thondaiman  are of Kulothunga III Period. We already seen that Malaiyaman are Hoysalas. All three kings are present during the period of Kulothunga III. Since the other Avvaiyar lives in Kulothunga III period. Both the Avvaiyars are same.&lt;div&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 12pt;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion  &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There is only one Auvaiyar she lived during period of Kulothunga III. The Sangam Age Avvai is a myth. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Reference &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A Topographical list of the inscriptions of the Madras presidency&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil-languge.html"&gt;Adhiyaman &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/08/date-of-kambar-and-kambaramayanam.html"&gt;Kamban&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/myth-of-murugan-tamil-god.html"&gt;Murugan &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/skanda-muruga-karthikeya-shanmuga.html"&gt;Shanmugha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-tamil-sangams.html"&gt;Sangam myth &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/10/controversies-of-kural-by-valluvar.html"&gt;Kural&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-cholas-tamil-myth.html"&gt;Chola Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://storyofkannada.blogspot.com/2009/03/kuntala-janapada-republic-of-kuntala.html"&gt;Kuntala&amp;nbsp;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;TOPICS&lt;/a&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/11/who-is-avvaiyar-sangam-myth.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMj-tTdtWe7_LbA0Oy0Esrzw0GvgUWVUe5Haxx3V4AqNxbKaPqXqnb_N2K6n6F6FgZcI7j-9J73Oieh-LECJpTyo4jZK0frN819PE1o5pJ2MIvPVrLSKFMAn5AhzdCSoinHBpXVH3SPmm5/s72-c/The+image+of+Avvaiyar+at+Muppandal..jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>11</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-8799434206202989765</guid><pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 12:39:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2015-05-08T10:04:03.269+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Huns</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kadamba</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kalidasa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kamboja</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">kuntala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maurya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Panini</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">sanskrit</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Satakarni</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sunga</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vikram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Vikramaditya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Yavana</category><title>Date of Kalidasa - Gupta Myth</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiE2NW5roBSJaQXtwLkhSFJePvrregolE516STN-TCEh9975WTa0Tiix4qhykH0eEytjEYOcOanbzh8zaRbl2b9RkHwBPa6mNgz_BnRm-OUnrG6ByQ-piaTzNr3t4k80f9A1iVUax-iwjTz/s1600/kalidasa.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiE2NW5roBSJaQXtwLkhSFJePvrregolE516STN-TCEh9975WTa0Tiix4qhykH0eEytjEYOcOanbzh8zaRbl2b9RkHwBPa6mNgz_BnRm-OUnrG6ByQ-piaTzNr3t4k80f9A1iVUax-iwjTz/s200/kalidasa.jpg" width="166" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Kalidasa most renowned classical Sanskrit scholar is widely regarded as the greatest poet and dramatist in the classical history. His period has not been dated to precise. Most likely falls in Gupta period in 5th century AD. This is a wikipedia introduction, you will mostly come across the same in many places as well. There is very little is known about kalidasa apart from his literature. But let us not go into other questions. Stay to main question: Date of Kalidasa.&amp;nbsp; Let us see what the scholars say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Kalidasa Works&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Four poetic works, Raghuvamsa, Kumarasambhava, Meghaduta, and Ritusamhara, and three dramas, Vikramorvasiya, Malavikagnimitra, and Abhijnanasakuntala are attibuted to him, in addition to these, Indian tradition attributes to him several other works(around 30) in diverse disciplines, ranging from poetics and astrology to mathematics and astronomy. It goes without saying that he had more than a little mastery of all these disciplines. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Ujjain&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kalidasa was clearly closely associated with, or lived in Ujjain, the capital of Vikramarka; his love for this city and the Malwa country is particularly apparent in the Meghaduta, from the way he holds forth lovingly on this city in the poem. The Yaksha's request to the cloud messenger to make a detour to visit Ujjain, the description of the dance of the devadasis in the Mahakaleswara Temple, and the incomparable descriptions of the city and of the river Sipra leave no one in doubt of this.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Kalidasa Life&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Almost nothing definite is known about Kalidasa's life, although legends abound. What one can definitely infer from his works is that he was a Brahman, a devotee of Siva but no fanatic of any Hindu sect, was widely travelled and very well versed in the arts, sciences and philosophy of his day. He lived in a city in affluent circumstances, and was well acquainted with royal courts and court politics, almost certainly because he was patronised by a powerful king. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;BanaBhatta of Harsha Charita&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Banabhatta, court poet of Harsavardhana (AD 606-647) in Harsacaritaoffers prefatory salutations to Kalidasa.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJU7tGxK9GbhYhFScIz5YTZyhvzR9JwDPqBnVgJ3_4lWjYashb3OADWozCmb-Y-67wkpkSTgEcEUi_y8fdZ8J07kIAweFZzYK-rHjycOjCcTr9IS5v0bmEbZyyoTLGwtifLDjlwca908TI/s1600/Aihole+Inscription.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="133" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjJU7tGxK9GbhYhFScIz5YTZyhvzR9JwDPqBnVgJ3_4lWjYashb3OADWozCmb-Y-67wkpkSTgEcEUi_y8fdZ8J07kIAweFZzYK-rHjycOjCcTr9IS5v0bmEbZyyoTLGwtifLDjlwca908TI/s200/Aihole+Inscription.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;b&gt;Aihole Inscription of Chalukya pulikesin II(634AD)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Talks about poet Ravikirti who was in the court of Chalukya Satyasraya(pulikesi II )whose poetic skills have attained the fame of Kalidasa(Sanskrit) and Bharavi(Kannada)(520AD). This inscription does not give any date of Kalidasa. But the inscription shows the kalidasa fame has reached the courts of karnataka kings and held in high esteem. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjm9p2sAkzOsyBZi3uhIGop-dcVR4Vs-CQBI5Ar6lgFrXV8oz46MeLcTYCUBw1c9E-1lwVB-v8bIZ1a0qNN911EIiUwrxQ1mE7OQWy4QUJT5L2tzwXyIwk7BkS-do6r1TJ9ahX9p_hPT8FI/s1600/Yasodharman+victory+Pillar.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="133" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjm9p2sAkzOsyBZi3uhIGop-dcVR4Vs-CQBI5Ar6lgFrXV8oz46MeLcTYCUBw1c9E-1lwVB-v8bIZ1a0qNN911EIiUwrxQ1mE7OQWy4QUJT5L2tzwXyIwk7BkS-do6r1TJ9ahX9p_hPT8FI/s200/Yasodharman+victory+Pillar.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;b&gt;Yasodharman&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Yasodharman who is believed to have assumed the title Sakari Vikramaditya after routing the Huns (Toramana at Malva in 528 AD). Kashmir Kalhana says that Kalidasa was the court poet of Vikramaditya.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Mandasor Inscription (473AD)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mandasor inscription 5 dated to 473 AD which names Kumaragupta, has verses borrowed from Kalidasa and imitating his style by the poet Vatsabhatti.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;KumaraGupta&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hero of Kumarasambhavam&amp;nbsp; Kumaragupta son of Chandragupta-II&amp;nbsp; (Vikramaditya) is the places him in 5th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Kuntala&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWgW_hz-7ds1rRe8rJLZx8kjX6MTrIfjPqW6sAGhovp06cByGCFqeULYOvr3MXZmVEjxTY6454Pe2s3U2QnwQo2qUYkYv8fva0P-A-7VhBBJ98UD1ePpRRYNItVkUMCVuDgb6y_FB_22Bs/s1600/Talagunda+Inscription.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWgW_hz-7ds1rRe8rJLZx8kjX6MTrIfjPqW6sAGhovp06cByGCFqeULYOvr3MXZmVEjxTY6454Pe2s3U2QnwQo2qUYkYv8fva0P-A-7VhBBJ98UD1ePpRRYNItVkUMCVuDgb6y_FB_22Bs/s200/Talagunda+Inscription.JPG" width="150" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;According to Kshemendra in Auchityavicharacharcha says, An envoy sent as to kuntala king capital and he was not properly received and was made to stand. King Boja of Dhara(11century AD) in Sringaraprakasa says&amp;nbsp; kalidasa was sent as envoy from court of Vikramaditya to Kuntaleshwara. There is a conflicting&amp;nbsp; reports on who is the kuntaleshwara&amp;nbsp; the envoy met . Kadamba king Kakusthavarman says Guptas sent the envoy at the time of Kadamba Bhagiratha.&amp;nbsp; Some scholars say the envoy visited Vatakata court. But Vatakata's never called themselves kuntaleshwara's , eventhough they raided kuntala few times, they never ruled kuntala. There is scribe called kalidasa in one of vatakata inscriptions, but it is not kalidasa. Some point to another royal clan in the infancy, Rastrakutas of manapura also had conflict with Vatakatas. Mananka , founder of Rastrakuta dynasty called himself Lord of Kuntala. There is one more dynasty Chutus satakarnis apart from Satavahans who called themselves kuntaleshwaras. But as far as envoy there is only one claim kadambas, so the Gupta envoy should have visited kadamba kingdom.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Astronomical Data&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There are two schools of thought on the astronomical evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
Sengupta's discussion on astronomical evidence places Kalida sa at the middle of the 6th&amp;nbsp; century AD, between AD 525-575 during the rein of Budhagupta.&lt;br /&gt;
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Dasgupta has quoted Jacobi's demonstration of astronomical evidence vis-à-vis influence of Greek astronomy of the period around 350 AD. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhh0Qhk_XKHG39Yj6TpouEcQbUA9Jxf53BmX93axWqzGXFg62aaUVh4RvwbZHyvgiiLAL1XtSpWsmIGb_X6P1jDI2lE24KmLyqXfKdkjzfYKPq1Rda3-DwmMgEtBuezPp7w6vpqvJMnOkEA/s1600/Kumara+Gupta.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhh0Qhk_XKHG39Yj6TpouEcQbUA9Jxf53BmX93axWqzGXFg62aaUVh4RvwbZHyvgiiLAL1XtSpWsmIGb_X6P1jDI2lE24KmLyqXfKdkjzfYKPq1Rda3-DwmMgEtBuezPp7w6vpqvJMnOkEA/s1600/Kumara+Gupta.gif" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;b&gt;Meghasandes&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Some Say that the work Meghasandesa is the communication that Kalidasa addressed to Prabhavati, sister of Chandragupta-II when the great poet was banished to Ramagiri by the Emperor. Prabhavati Gupta, widow of Rudrasena-II who died in 390 AD and mother of Pravarasena-II who is believed to be have authored Setubandhanam and Saundaryalahari.&amp;nbsp; Popular legends say that Malavikagnimitram was written for staging on the occasion of the marrigae of Prabhavati Gupt a at Ujjayini. The Drama was staged at the wedding.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Chandragupta II&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIJIHsmwN1Ysqpk5jGUVqnPAEE_bdxiNwXGded72a9zblVTqrSvnwxgu_H2-6RAdjYC04zhX3LgFo5sRWyiC-iQZvzo_8daVzDIDir7yFOurVs-BlyhoYbo3tZQMfc8Do7rPj7oGe7WMTs/s1600/Chandragupta+II+Coin.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIJIHsmwN1Ysqpk5jGUVqnPAEE_bdxiNwXGded72a9zblVTqrSvnwxgu_H2-6RAdjYC04zhX3LgFo5sRWyiC-iQZvzo_8daVzDIDir7yFOurVs-BlyhoYbo3tZQMfc8Do7rPj7oGe7WMTs/s1600/Chandragupta+II+Coin.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;This date is propounded by Dr. A.B. Keith. According to him, Kālidāsa flourished during the reign of king Candragupta 2nd (380-413) who made Ujjainī second capital, who crushed Hūnas and as a result, assumed the title ‘Vikramāditya'. The poet expresses in his works his deep sense of gratitude for his Gupta patrons. Smith and MacDonnell support Dr. Keith. On the basis of astronomical calculations Jacobi places Kālidāsa after 3rd century A.D. Dr. Bűhler is of opinion that he should placed before 472 A.D. Sircar admits that the earliest historical Vikramāditya is Candragupta 2nd of imperil Gupta dynasty who defeated Śakas, conquered western India and made Ujjainī, as the capital of his empire. This theory founded by Dr. Keith has received support from Winternitz, Konow, Liebich, Bloch and many other scholars&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Gathasapthasati&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Gathasapthasati mentions Kalidasa to be court poet of Vikramaditya.&amp;nbsp; Hala's Sapthasati gives glowing accounts of Vikramaditya.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Asvagosha&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aśvaghosa, the Buddhist poet, has prepared the ground for Kālidāsa by his compositions in the field of poetry and drama. Kālidāsa took clue from this great poet and presented his own poetry and drama in polished and refined manner. The date of Aśvaghosa is definite. He enjoyed the patronage of Kusāna king Kaniska who ruled in 1st century AD. &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Vikaramaditya(1st century BC)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the scholars including Baladev Upaddhyaya, William Jones, Peterson, M.R. Kale, and R.N. Apte&amp;nbsp; say that kalidasa lived during King Vikramaditya of Ujjain who ruled in 1st century BC. After whom the Vikram era is known.&amp;nbsp; After he defeated&amp;nbsp; sakas. Kalidasa has consistently called Pururavas "Vikrama" in the drama Vikramorvasiya. It is generally conjuctured that Kalidasa did this to honour his patron. He included the name in the title of the drama itself to ensure propagation of his patron's name. In addition, the name Mahendra is mentioned together with Vikrama several times in the Vikramorvasiya; we know from the Kathasaritsagara that Vikramaditya's father was known by this name. Since Vikramaditya father was Mahendraditya. It suits fine.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;AgniMitra&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kalidasa mentions three historical persons, Pushyamitra(conducts horse sacrifice to pronounce supreme soverignity) his son Agnimitra (governor of vidisa and hero of the story Malavikagnimitra and vidarba princess who disguises as maid) and lastly his grandson vasumitra&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; the brave guardian of horse, who returns triumphantly defeating the yavanas. These are historical incidents. According to Dr. C. Kunhan Raja, on the basis of Bharatvākya of the ‘Malvikagnimitra' Kālidāsa' was the contemporary of king Agnimitra of Sunga dynasty and flourished in the 2nd century B.C. Kalidasa talks about the vasumitra grandson of pushyamitra who defeated Yavanas. This is the upper limit of the kalidasa date. Kalidasa gives lot of intimate details of pushyamitra&amp;nbsp; and sungas ,which only the closest can give.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Raghu Dynasty.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
800 B.C.- Mr. Hippolyte Fauche places Kālidāsa in the 8th century B.C., on assumption that he was contemporary of Agnivarna, the last king of Raghu dynasty. Hippolyte thought Ramayana to be this date.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;i&gt;Having seen the scholars opinions ,Let us bring in more material to discuss.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Basic of discussion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;All the sources say Kalidasa was in the Royal court of King Vikramaditya&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kalidas widely travelled was based out of Ujjain in malwa. He Praises&amp;nbsp; vidisha capital of 3.sungas. Kalidasa speaks of defeat of Yavanas by Pushyamitra grandson vasumitra.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;kalidasa knew Huns.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Historical person mentioned by Kalidasa was Agnimitra of Sunga Dynasty who ruled in 2nd century BC.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Guptas employed&amp;nbsp; his literary works in Inscriptions and functions.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;There is a close resemblances between the works of kalidasa and Avagosha's Buddha charita &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;kumargupta is called Mahendra and father of Vikramaditya is also called Mahendra.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Vikrama - Many of the Guptas have titles vikrama Chandragupta, samudragupta etc.&lt;/li&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: small;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Huns&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Raghu Victory of Hunas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The cheeks of huNa women glowed with embarrassment by the action of raghu in waging war with their husbands and that flush itself appeared as an index to raghu's valour. Now the context has to be known, he is talking about Raghu(Legendary father of Ram) and also mentions Raghu Conqured Parasikas, Kambojas,Yavanas.&amp;nbsp; Reached Oxus river. Did chandragupta II defeated these kings. Huns are there , but Parasikas, Kambojas or yavanas.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Vankshu&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVpgK_hECbH-kO2fmDO69gQ2y8bDYWlww8cptluxUXsGzhP4R4Vw0oTUGRbyZK_-I5zl-7TYNnXIpU1PuvVIYGcvTljdT5NCqdUAiqTBjxMVLO9cCIY1m6rU8IyheCSuocVr8yhM_ZJZDs/s1600/white+Huns+Coin.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVpgK_hECbH-kO2fmDO69gQ2y8bDYWlww8cptluxUXsGzhP4R4Vw0oTUGRbyZK_-I5zl-7TYNnXIpU1PuvVIYGcvTljdT5NCqdUAiqTBjxMVLO9cCIY1m6rU8IyheCSuocVr8yhM_ZJZDs/s200/white+Huns+Coin.jpg" width="188" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;now the principal difficulty in the identification of this river has arisen by the fact that Mallinatha, the most brilliant commentator on the works of Kalidasa has chosen to read Sindhu for Vanksu. But in view of some very important reasons, given below, Mallinatha's reading is evidently erroneous. It is to be borne in mind that six manuscripts of the mallinatha, out of nine, with their commentaries read vankS (four of these) or vanksu (two). There hardly seems an occasion for Mallinatha to adopt the reading Sindhu. This reading has landed him in obvious difficulties which he has sought to explain away. The unsuitability of his reading is so patent in his own explanation that, thinking that his readers would easily confuse Sindhu with the great river Indus.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Huns Locations &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The history of the Huna expansion in Central Asia is very interesting.&amp;nbsp; During the reign of Pou-non-tanjou (A. D. 46) the Huna country and their&amp;nbsp; empire suffered from severe famine. While they were yet in difficulties the&amp;nbsp; Eastern Tartars and the Chinese drove them out of their land and pushed them to&amp;nbsp; west and south. In the middle of 5th century AD, Huns formed a powerful army and starts invading far of lands. The defeated the persian empire in 225AD. The First invasion of India took place during Skandagupta time, they were soundly defeated. The second invasion during Yasovarman. So until 46AD, Huns were in Oxus basin.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Vikramaditya. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kalidasa was in the royal court of vikramaditya , that&amp;nbsp; is confirmed by everybody. The&amp;nbsp; vikramorvisya mentions Vikramaditya to be son of Mahendraditya. There are two sets Mahendraditya - vikramaditya(2-1century BC) and Gupta dynasty Kumaragupta Mahendraditya - Skandagupta Vikramaditya. So who is the vikramaditya we are speaking.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Vikramaditya the Legend.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi0w1lUSJBHD12nZBakaBklNBrZJEZ_7sf_7GvQpb1NGhVMyN9D_bgCJzAuS9kxXyu8UxN7m_sSGEvj3v8EXCNbKlyc37dDwOHOYmGlPlDJWFNTVsEo24tCT0ZQwCLA6Pwr1ZchKvP5Dkfu/s1600/Gupta+Pillar+Inscription+Now+at+Qutub+mihhar.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi0w1lUSJBHD12nZBakaBklNBrZJEZ_7sf_7GvQpb1NGhVMyN9D_bgCJzAuS9kxXyu8UxN7m_sSGEvj3v8EXCNbKlyc37dDwOHOYmGlPlDJWFNTVsEo24tCT0ZQwCLA6Pwr1ZchKvP5Dkfu/s200/Gupta+Pillar+Inscription+Now+at+Qutub+mihhar.jpg" width="146" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;The tales of the vampire (Vetala) tell twenty-five stories in which the king tries to capture and hold on to a vampire that tells a puzzling tale and ends it with a question for the king. In fact, earlier the king was approached by a Sadhu to bring the vampire to him but without uttering a word, otherwise the vampire would fly back to its place. The king can be quiet only if he does not know the answer, else his head would burst open. Unfortunately, the king discovers that he knows the answer to every question; therefore the cycle of catching the vampire and letting it escape continues for twenty-four times till the last question puzzles Vikramaditya. A version of these tales can be found embedded in the Katha-Saritsagara.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Bhoja and Vikramaditya&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The tales of the throne are linked to the throne of Vikramaditya that is lost and recovered by king Bhoja, the Paramara king of Dhar, after many centuries. The latter king is himself famous and this set of tales are about his attempts to sit on the throne. This throne is adorned by 32 female statues who, being able to speak, challenge him to ascend the throne only if he is as magnanimous as Vikramaditya is depicted in the tale she is about to narrate. This leads to 32 attempts (and 32 tales) of Vikramaditya and in each case Bhoja acknowledges his inferiority. Finally, the statues let him ascend the throne when they are pleased with his humility. This is story created in 11th century AD by Bhoja paramara king after he declared indepndence from chalukyas.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Vikramaditya of Ujjain&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kalakacharyakathanaka a jain works says that at the instance of Kalaka ( jain teacher whose sister was abducted by Garadabilla, king of ujjain), the shakas invaded ujjain and took Garadabilla prisoner. They ruled for sometime and was overthrown by vikramaditya , king of malwa. vikramaditya started his own era. Brihatkatha of Gunadaya and kathasaritsagara endorse this event. And Gathasaptasati of Hala Satavahana also describes the event. The works say vikramaditya also called vikramasila son of mahendraditya was the founder of vikrama samvat. According to Bhavishya Purana. Vikram era started in 57 BC by Vikramaditya the Great as a commemoration of his victory upon the Shakas. There is plentiful literature on Vikramaditya, and in the Bhavishya Puran itself there are descriptions of Vikramaditya in more than 40 chapters between Pratisarg Parv I and IV. Bhavishya Purana (Pratisarg Parv I, chapter 7) says that, "After the elapse of a full 3,000 years in kali yuga (3102 - 3000 = 102 BC), a dynamic Divine personality was born who was named Vikramaditya.&amp;nbsp; Bhavishya Puran further says that&amp;nbsp; the great King Vikramaditya ruled for one hundred years. Then his son Deobhakt ruled for ten years and his grandson Shalivahan, who established Shalivahan Shaka era (in 78 AD), defeated the Shaks and ruled for sixty years."&amp;nbsp; Alberuni also mentions about Vikram era (57 BC) and also the Shalivahan Shaka era which starts 135 years after the Vikram era.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;One poet quoting another&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Brihat katha by Gunadaya(1st century AD)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
This work is lost but there are several versions available.The story is brihat katha manjari has lot in common with kathasarit sagara&amp;nbsp; of&amp;nbsp; kalidasa. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Asvagosha&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Some of the situations and Ideas are common to both asvagosha and kalidasa plays. But the big argument is waste because we can never say that the one copied from other. The ideas and situations seems to be borrowed from the situations and ideas common at that time frame. But indologist scholars(Kowell and Keith) will say kalidasa copied and Indian scholars say Asvagosha copied. But in concluding verses of&amp;nbsp; saundarananda . The Humble Asvaghosa says he is not poet of eminence. The Subject of interest for Asvaghosa is religion and philosophy. He is monk first and then a author. He wants to preach the his ideals through a kavya, So he sets himself after famous Kavyas of his time. Hence the resemblences and similarities to kalidasa kavyas. The Master kavya writer is of course kalidasa. That gives atleast a century or more earlier to asvagosha, which puts kalidasa in 1century BC.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Yajnasri Satakarni (2nd century AD&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhqpew6PY3Im7JuvUCXjPKslQPR-yIrlBCN1Tl1IPLwHZA2g4k_J1LqxRQgrzAfVIHn-FojA3lyP3NLe8uZQeKx0YxeNvPgnljnTdttgk97hkX7yhyQyKZ2UcB83WtkQ8IGEDyGgZ-ISBRV/s1600/Yajna+sri+Satakarni+Coin.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="100" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhqpew6PY3Im7JuvUCXjPKslQPR-yIrlBCN1Tl1IPLwHZA2g4k_J1LqxRQgrzAfVIHn-FojA3lyP3NLe8uZQeKx0YxeNvPgnljnTdttgk97hkX7yhyQyKZ2UcB83WtkQ8IGEDyGgZ-ISBRV/s200/Yajna+sri+Satakarni+Coin.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Yajna sri satakarni releases a coins with king on one side and&amp;nbsp; with crescent on hill, crescent on ujjain symbols, zig zag lines and cirle of dots. The meaning can be found in kalidasa verses in raghu vamsa. The king's fame ascended the mountains(symbolized by the moon on hill), crossed the oceans(figured by the four circles of the ujjain symbol and crescent), penetrated into the subterrannean abode of vasuki(zig zag line) and went up to the most high(as represented by dots representing sttary heaven). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also kamasutra of Vatsyayana has similar styles to sakuntala.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Bhita Medallion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The terrocota medallion recovered from Allahabad&amp;nbsp; depicting the scene from sakuntala, has gateways like sanchi&amp;nbsp; dated to 1st century BC. But scholars say it Buddha in kapilavastu.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Astronomical observances&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The astronomical references by ketki&amp;nbsp; like dakshinayana (summer solistice) cannot be taken to be conclusive as they can go each side 100 to 200 years. &lt;br /&gt;
Sengupta observations based on ashada month references cannot be taken as kalidasa mention lunar months ,not solar months. The works clearly show that that Gupta system&amp;nbsp; is not followed by kalidasa.&lt;br /&gt;
The term Jamitra in kumarasambhava has been mischeviously&amp;nbsp; interpreted as Greek diametron and claimed that kalidasa lived in the ideas of Greek astronomy and also claiming Greek astronomy has become popular in India. In Hindu Astrology Jamitra simply means seventh zodiacal sign from the natal(lagna).&lt;br /&gt;
And kalidasa knew lot&amp;nbsp; about Astronomy ,but he is basically a&amp;nbsp; poet not astronomer.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Kingdoms.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
yavanas were defeated in persia, which fits the time frame of 1century BC and pallavas are absent in kalidasa account. kalidasa talks about Independent Anga , which is impossible in Gupta age. Kalidasa speaks about ruler in madura again not possible during gupta period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Capital&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pushyamitra capital was Pataliputra, his son agnimitra was governor of vidisha, when pushyamitra was the senatipati and when the capital was shifted to vidisha, it remained the capital until 57BC, Later he shifted to Ujjain.&amp;nbsp; In Megaduta and Malvakiagnimitra the scenes of the city are vidisha, not pataliputra , not ujjain. Vikramovisaya completed after the victory of vikramaditya over sakas. why he does not tell about pataliputra or Ayodhya Imperial capital of Guptas, because he has come to a independent kingdom in Ujjain.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Dharmas(Laws)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Dharma(Law)&amp;nbsp; followed in Kalidasa works&amp;nbsp; like&amp;nbsp; " widow cannot inherit the property"&amp;nbsp; is of the times of Apastamba and Baudhayana. Brhaspati, vyasa,sankha and likita&amp;nbsp; belonging to Gupta period rule that the widow has the right to succeed in Husband's property. In Sakuntala there is capital punishment for theft. In the days of Brhaspati, this was relaxed and a heavy fine was introduced. So clearly kalidasa is not of Gupta times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Revisionists&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYvaUUe199omFOid3xSaE62KcjikRA3XLTFBwe6aPwwyfCMdyXe3bdtTlAP1csRxN8pOQIkFoMurHDDo9WOEjABQWHF8OdPBwE7dKLWbu9CnPDEsxvvZbGhLL6j-XRlqL3aIqnei0TvCDH/s1600/Vikramaditya+Betal+%28Vampire%29.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYvaUUe199omFOid3xSaE62KcjikRA3XLTFBwe6aPwwyfCMdyXe3bdtTlAP1csRxN8pOQIkFoMurHDDo9WOEjABQWHF8OdPBwE7dKLWbu9CnPDEsxvvZbGhLL6j-XRlqL3aIqnei0TvCDH/s200/Vikramaditya+Betal+%28Vampire%29.jpg" width="180" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Several revisions of the Kalidasa works has taken place and many authors have included their current events in their works. For example there is an argument between Dinnaga(6th century AD) and Kalidasa, which looks unlike kalidasa. While Dinnaga was critic of kalidasa , Nicula is friend in megaduta. Since Dinnaga cannot be dated earlier, Kalidasa is brought down. We do not know who is Nicula. Another is refrerence to kalachuri dynasty ( 6th century AD).&amp;nbsp; For some commentators Dinnaga becomes Nagarjuna&lt;br /&gt;
D.C.Sircar draws attention to Tibetan passage in early 18th century AD , which says kalidasa was contemproary of King Bhagabadra of Sunga Dynasty ruling from vidisha,Wima kusala Khadphises&amp;nbsp; and king savti satavahana of dakshinatya and Aparanta. He Married daughter of Khadphises by name vasanti.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In Tenth Century AD Sanskrit scholar Rajashekara gives three great kalidasa who are renowned authors and masters of aesthetic language. There are many kalidasa's and more than dozen vikramadityas, Western scholars have done what they do best to confuse and combine everybody to one kalidasa and some vikramadityas to one vikramaditya. In effect they have hit two mangoes in one. Denying kalidasa antiquity and also stricking off the glorious vikramaditya(1century BC)&amp;nbsp; from history to mythical ruler.&amp;nbsp; For the time being we can go with Puranic account and say Kalidasa lived in the era of Vikramaditya (son of Mahendraditya) around 57BC. Vikramaditya who established vikram era in 57BC. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;My Theory &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Now the date is settled , All our problems are solved right? &lt;br /&gt;
No, we have only one problem. Panini talks about Pushyamitra. Panini cannot be dated later than 4th century BC. How can Panini talk about pushyamitra who is two centuries later. We&amp;nbsp; have to see pushyamitra dated to Mauryas. But keeping Mauryas in 3rd century BC, Indologists have brought pushyamitra to that date. But Panini is struck at 4 century BC . If Mauryas are dated in 15-14century BC, how come his Senapati dated in 2nd century BC. Indology Scholar Vogel equated Bruhaspatimitra of Magada with Pushyamitra and scholars like K P Jaiswal followed suit. We have one more mythical king pushyamitra.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjHmD4lh2-jyVcmNuNVuw_cO76c-0kTpMhoxnr2_off10q0jtGe9Vl4QpBKb3unmlgo08YL-GLNm5LYgK5sExkXXT0czmtGbjMbu-gNF1z2y-j7vHPlGuw3t8BdA4gZz3rdhrTmIckL2aqj/s1600/Samudragupta+coin.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjHmD4lh2-jyVcmNuNVuw_cO76c-0kTpMhoxnr2_off10q0jtGe9Vl4QpBKb3unmlgo08YL-GLNm5LYgK5sExkXXT0czmtGbjMbu-gNF1z2y-j7vHPlGuw3t8BdA4gZz3rdhrTmIckL2aqj/s1600/Samudragupta+coin.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
I feel Gupta Emperors Chandragupta I and Samundragupta are the rulers in 3rd century BC. The Raghu in Raghuvamsa&amp;nbsp; campaign eeringly follows samudragupta campaign.There are several mitras ruling in many places in North India&amp;nbsp; as per inscriptions in 2nd century BC.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Kalidasa reads samudragupta campaign into Raghu campaign. And reads Sunga rulers&amp;nbsp; Pushyamitra, Agnimitra and vasumitra tales in to local mitra tales. And we have a big confusion.&amp;nbsp; Kalidasa says Agnimitra to be kasyapa lineage and belonging to Baimbika family, According to Panini Sungas belong to Bramhana family of Bharadvaja. The Vikramaditya son of Mahendraditya are the rulers whose time kalidasa lived that is 1 century BC. But with new additional information the things will change&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sources&lt;br /&gt;
Giravani&amp;nbsp; by desiraju hanumanta rao&lt;br /&gt;
Definitive Astronomical Evidence for the Date of Kalidasa&amp;nbsp; by K. Chandra Hari&lt;br /&gt;
The Role of Kālidāsa in the Development of Indian Literature by Parmeshwar Gangawat&lt;br /&gt;
Kalidasa and Ancient India by Chhattisgarh - Ambikapur&lt;br /&gt;
INDIA IN KALIDASA BY J. K. SHARMA&lt;br /&gt;
Numismatic parallels of kalidasa by sri c.sivaramamurti&lt;br /&gt;
Kalidasa: Date, Life And Works by&amp;nbsp; V.V. MIRASHI N.R NAVALEKAR&lt;br /&gt;
The Gupta polity By V. P. Ramachandra Dikshitar, V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar&lt;br /&gt;
Old Buddhist Shrines at Bodh-Gaya Inscriptions By B.M. Barua&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Related Posts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/myth-of-huns-invasion-of-india.html"&gt;Who are White Huns&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-kanishka-era.html"&gt;Date of Kanishka&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/who-are-ancient-kambojas-and-their-land.html"&gt;Who are Kambojas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-rastrakuta.html"&gt;Origin of Rastrakuta&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/11/myths-of-rajput-origin.html"&gt;Myths of Rajput Origin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-satavahana-andhra-myth.html"&gt;Origin of Satavahans - Andhra Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthanes Meet Chandragupta&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/10/origin-of-yavanas-greek-myth.html"&gt;Origin of Yavanas - Greek Myth&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiE2NW5roBSJaQXtwLkhSFJePvrregolE516STN-TCEh9975WTa0Tiix4qhykH0eEytjEYOcOanbzh8zaRbl2b9RkHwBPa6mNgz_BnRm-OUnrG6ByQ-piaTzNr3t4k80f9A1iVUax-iwjTz/s72-c/kalidasa.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>24</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-5420366662194698939</guid><pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:06:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2010-08-24T14:04:41.204+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Atiyaman</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Avaiyar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chalukya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chola</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Cladwell</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hoysala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kakatiya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kambar</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ramanuja</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ramayana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">tamil</category><title>Date of Kambar and Kambaramayanam</title><description>Kambar’s period has been an issue of controversy for long among Tamil historians. Simon Casie Chitty,&amp;nbsp;in his 1859 anthology [‘The Tamil Plutarch’] on the lives of poets and poetesses of Southern India and Ceylon,&amp;nbsp;noted :&amp;nbsp;In one of the commendatory stanzas which is prefixed to the workthe year of Saka 808 (AD 886) is specified as&amp;nbsp;the date of its publication by Kamber; but the Rev.Mr. Caldwell, the author of the Comparative Grammar of the&amp;nbsp;Dravidian Languages, rejects this date as spurious from the evidence of certain inscriptions found at Cape Comorin&amp;nbsp;and in the Chalukya country, according to which the Chola kings who patronized Kambar lived only in the eleventh&amp;nbsp;century of the Christian era.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But, Prof.T.P. Meenakshisundaram says Kambar a contemporary of Ottakkuttar. Other scholars conclude that&amp;nbsp;he belonged to the period of Kulottunga III. Purattirattu, an anthology, quotes verses from Ramayanam after its&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;quotations from earlier works like Cintamani, while it does not quote from Ottakkuttar or other later poets.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
On the basis of one of the verses which give the date of its composition, one may conclude that he lived&lt;br /&gt;
in the tenth century.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ramachandra Dikshithar of Madras University has concurred that Kambar was a contemporary of King Kulotunga Cholan III, &amp;nbsp;whose reign spanned between 1178 and 1218 (Vidwan M. Rasamanickam, 1947).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As per Ragava Aiyangar, Kambar may have been born around 1120 and died in 1197.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;"&gt;Analysis and Conclusion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Overall, there are two schools of thought on Kambar’s period. One school proposed that Kambar lived in the 9th&amp;nbsp;century, with which the available circumstantial evidence does not tally properly. Even as recent as 1981, Justice&amp;nbsp;S. Maharajan, who authored a small monograph on Kambar, stated that the 9th century “appears to be the more&amp;nbsp;plausible” period for Kambar. I rather doubt this advanced dating for the simple reason that, in the 9th century,&amp;nbsp;the Chola empire was only in its early stage of ascent, and only the first two kings of the Chola empire have &amp;nbsp;been identified as living in the 9th century, namely Vijayalaya Chola of Suryavamsa (reigning period 848-881) &amp;nbsp;and Aditya karikala Chola (871-907). The first most prominent Chola king was Parantaka Chola I (reigning period 907-940),&amp;nbsp;the son of Aditya Chola and the grandson of Vijayalaya Chola.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Acharya Ramanuja&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Chalukya chola kings from Kulothunga Chola was a great patrons of Vaishanavism. Vikrama chola built the renewed and built &amp;nbsp;fortifications for Sri Ranganathar temple. Kulothunga II (1133–50AD) has prosecuted vaishnavites. Kulothunga II is also mentioned&amp;nbsp;in Sekilar periyapuranam. Ramanuja ran away to Hoysala Empire to escape prosecution. Kambar Mentions by name Ramanuja &amp;nbsp;in Sadagopar Antadi. So he must be of the period or later than Ramanuja. Mostly later than Ramanuja.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Kulothunga III&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kambar mentions &amp;nbsp;Chalukya Chola &amp;nbsp;king Kulothunga III(1178–1218AD) in his work ,so Kambar should be of his or later period. Ramanuja was also&amp;nbsp;lived during this period. Kulothunga III 13th century AD was the Contemprory and patron of Famous poets like Ottakuttar , pukalendhi,n Nammazhvar &amp;nbsp;and Avavaiyar. Cheraman Perumal is also of the same period.Avvaiyar Her two other works, Mooturai and Nalvali, were written for slightly older children.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Raja Raja Chola&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kambar also talks with Raja Raja Chola as contemproary, There are two Raja Raja Cholas. There is Raja Raja chola I(985–1014AD) and Rajaraja chola III(1216–1256AD). So he&amp;nbsp;must of his Rajaraja Chola III period or later.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Rajendra Chola&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;Rajendra chola III(1246–1279AD) has honoured Kambar, so he should either be that period or later.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Kakatiya Kingdom&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kambar also went to Kakatiya kingdom then ruled by Purataparudora II(1289 to 1323AD). From 1303AD Khilji forces were battling the Kakatiyas,&amp;nbsp;so it has to be earlier between 1289 to 1303AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So by these evidences we can say Kambar lived in later half of 13th century AD and First half of 14th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Ref:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;On Epic Poet Kambar&amp;nbsp;And the Kamba Rasam polemic of polymath Anna&lt;br /&gt;
by Sachi Sri Kantha&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/08/date-of-kambar-and-kambaramayanam.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>2</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-5437323221884224783</guid><pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 09:44:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2010-06-05T16:56:45.987+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">chola</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Chutu</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hoysala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Karikala</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Literature</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mahabharata</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maurya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Naga</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pallava</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">purananooru</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ramayana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sangam</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">sanskrit</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">silapathikaram</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">tamil</category><title>Date of Purananooru</title><description>Various dates are proposed for purananooru, 1000BC, 10,000BC , 1 Million years old etc.&lt;br /&gt;
Let us try to find the probable date. This is based on the premise that if &amp;nbsp;X mentions Y , then X is later than Y.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Purananooru - 378&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Purananooru mentions mentions Rama and sita ,so it cannot be more than 4000BC old.&lt;br /&gt;
Purananooru mentions mentions Mahabratha war so, it is atleast later than 3000BC&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Purananooru - 175&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Purananooru mentions mentions Maurya ,so it is later than 175BC atleast. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Dating problem&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
purananooru mentions Ilamcetcenni stopped Mauryas from coming to south,&amp;nbsp;Silapathikaram mentions Karikal chola who is dated (by most ardent tamil chuvanists)&amp;nbsp;to be in 2nd century AD. So Father-son ruling 500 years apart. which shows&amp;nbsp;that the the poet who composed the poet cannot be dated anywhere near the two dates.&amp;nbsp;so give atleast 200 years to forget the periods , that puts purananooru to 400 AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Purananooru 46&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Killivalavan was a chola king mentioned in Sangam Literature, and Father of Nedunkilli and Nalankilli ,&amp;nbsp;in the Purananuru and Agananuru.The etymology of Killi is kilai (Branch in Tamil)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Killi Valavan&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The word Pallava means branch in Sanskrit, denoting that they are a later offshoot &amp;nbsp;(Kilai-&amp;gt; Branch(tamil)) of Chutus (satkarnis).Pallava is rendered as Tondaiyar in the Tamil language. &amp;nbsp;The Pallava kings at several places are called Thondamans or Thondaiyarkon.&amp;nbsp;The territory of the Pallavas was known as Tundaka Visaya or Tundaka Rashtra.(tundaka -&amp;gt; Branch)&amp;nbsp;The Sanskrit meaning of Pallava is Kilai The Tamil Thondai means the same, &amp;nbsp;It shows that Pallavas are descendants (Kilay or Pirivu) of Chutus(satakarnis). Karnata dynasties Chalukyas and Rastrakutas call themselves Vallabhas and &amp;nbsp;Pallava also from Karnata have called themselves vallabhas in some places, which translates to valavan in Tamil.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If we take the killi -&amp;gt;; Kilai and Pallava -&amp;gt;; kilai and vallabha -&amp;gt; valavan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We have killi valvan and it shows that killi valavan is generic term applied to pallava vallabha.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the pallavas revenge against pulikesin II, &amp;nbsp;Ganga king who had marital relations with chalukyas took revenge against pallavas and chased them out of kanchi. &amp;nbsp;So the pallavas shifted themselves to a place called Kaduvetti, which is now in chola country. Many of their inscriptions are from kaduvetti. Only after this time we see cholas rising. &amp;nbsp;Cholas might have marital relations with pallavas and &amp;nbsp;putting killivalavan as one of their ancestors, &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;shows their ancestors are &amp;nbsp;pllavas. Until Nirputunga pallava cornation ,they were feudatories of pallavas.&amp;nbsp;This also solves myth Pallavas are not mentioned in Sangam literature-so sangam literature has to be dated before pallavas.&amp;nbsp;So if we take this account then the purananooru has to be dated after pallavas that after 9th century AD.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Karikala, Maurya ,Ramayana and Mahabharata war&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
There is a karikala known as Aditya Karikala ruling in 9th century AD. &amp;nbsp;Mauryan kings were ruling until 7th century AD in Konkan. &amp;nbsp;So the knowledge of Mauryas and Karikalan were fresh. &amp;nbsp;During&amp;nbsp;9th century AD to 13th century AD, saw all the dynasties trying to connect themselves to Ramayana and Mahabharata Warriors, not surprising&amp;nbsp;the Purananooru does similar act of connecting the tamil kings to Mahabharata heroes. &amp;nbsp;Karikala said to have defeated Oliya nagas and according to Mahabalipur Inscription of Rajendra I oliya nagas are of his period( 11th century AD.). &amp;nbsp;So &amp;nbsp;Purananooru is defintely 10th century AD &amp;nbsp;to 11th century AD or later than that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Irunkovel&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;Here is an inscription belonging to one of the kings of the Irunkovel line from the Adhipuriswara temple in Tiruvorriyur district:&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;&lt;i&gt;Records in the reign of the Ganga-pallava king Kovijiya Kampavarman, gift of 27 kalanju of gold for offerings by Pudi Arindigai, wife of Videlvidigu-Ilangovelar of Kodumbalur in Ko-nadu. The money was placed in the hands of the residents of Vaikattur, a suburb of Tiruvorriuyur, on interest at 3 manjadi per kalanju per annum&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;Kampavarman is dated to 870-900AD ,Irunkovel mentioned in Purananooru , so the date of purananooru has to be later than this date. Interestingly there was a dynastic struggle between Kampavarman(elder) and Nrputunga(boy) for the throne like Nedunkilli and Nalankilli&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Hoysalas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;The dating gets even curious because the Purananooru mentions Pulikatimal (Hoysalas with emblem of Sala killing the Tiger that is Hoysalas ending the chola rule(Tiger Emblem)), who are of &amp;nbsp;period 10th -14th Century AD . Interestingly it also says pulikatimal is from neighbhouring country. So if we take Hoysalas into &amp;nbsp;picture, the date has to be after 11th century AD. &amp;nbsp;Probably between 11th to 13th century AD. After which there was a intergennum because of Muslim invasion.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/10/origin-of-cholas-tamil-myth.html"&gt;origin of Cholas&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/date-of-karikal-chola.html"&gt;Date of Karikala&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/origin-of-pallavas.html"&gt;Date of Pallava&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-tamil-sangams.html"&gt;Myth of Tamil Sangam&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/05/great-myth-of-antiquity-of-tamil.html"&gt;Date of Silapathikaram&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/06/date-of-purananooru.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>2</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-6050292977873139351</guid><pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 05:54:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2010-05-11T12:08:15.683+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Africa</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">aryan</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Athens</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Black</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">egypt</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">European</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Greek</category><title>Black Athena Debate</title><description>Martin Bernal said  that the Greek culture has been misrepresented as Indo-European in origin when in fact it is largely African or Semitic. His explanation for this which has been  discussed is that history was revised in order to flush out the African contribution to Greek Culture. Bernal contends in the late 1700's the anti-Semitic and anti-African sentiments of the time, resulted in those cultures being eliminated from establishment history. To prove his thesis Bernal defined three models of accepted history.  Furthermore Bernal also legitimated his thesis by showing distinct links or borrowings of religion from the Egyptian civilization. Specifically he connected the Cretan Bull Cult of Minos and the Minotaur to origins in the Egyptian god Min who frequently required bovine sacrifices.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXidC42YgiM10GH-v1N6mGvfg6rIEoleEeTP7kx3HJGgAEnsJFGwP90R3L2KSChLKSpS6vh-FcMxYB1Dk8IUTcJKxXYH1H4u2ryPilVPAAQbS2pN2QCVyxHUoyoEkobOHatMRdlJGhlayE/s1600/African+Athena.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXidC42YgiM10GH-v1N6mGvfg6rIEoleEeTP7kx3HJGgAEnsJFGwP90R3L2KSChLKSpS6vh-FcMxYB1Dk8IUTcJKxXYH1H4u2ryPilVPAAQbS2pN2QCVyxHUoyoEkobOHatMRdlJGhlayE/s320/African+Athena.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;The Three Models of History Referred to By Martin Bernal&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;1. Ancient Model&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9yXuZTfRY18xEdsk9C8rGmFF_9FdIM_pcJ4z3VrZ_MRP0JkVAYUY5MdDphyphenhyphen0r8xr4m448Hx5kOKkgmP485q9ygoYb84JGcudNAz3T6jXkXeREIpsuLmmdEOQWX2q69pI6w5GRfI9c5zGo/s1600/athena_birth.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh9yXuZTfRY18xEdsk9C8rGmFF_9FdIM_pcJ4z3VrZ_MRP0JkVAYUY5MdDphyphenhyphen0r8xr4m448Hx5kOKkgmP485q9ygoYb84JGcudNAz3T6jXkXeREIpsuLmmdEOQWX2q69pI6w5GRfI9c5zGo/s320/athena_birth.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;The Ancient model was the one that was held by the Greeks, citizens of the Mediterranean and Egyptians in ancient times up until about 1790. Essentially he contends that previous to the restructuring of history by German scholars in the late 18th century Greeks recognized their roots in Egypt. The Ancient Model is that previous to the Institution of The Aryan Model Greeks felt that their culture had its roots in Africa. Essentially this model holds that Greece was settled about 1500 B.C.E. by Egyptians and Phoenicians. The supposition is that Greeks directly borrowed their mathematics, governmental system, language, writing, philosophy, and religion directly from African and Semitic sources.  &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;2. Aryan Model  &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfjm-0bkST7xk1u_wxBRScXeu_tAjdx6QeZI492hcTBKHo9eH5AXqoVBY4_enhuX-vOz0vH5zxPY9xE7gaQnp-ipTmYekyd1h-1Pvn3J44yDQCl8A9tnkIiSoRnVysWgEuyhDMH6YmFsBD/s1600/Aryan+Greece.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgfjm-0bkST7xk1u_wxBRScXeu_tAjdx6QeZI492hcTBKHo9eH5AXqoVBY4_enhuX-vOz0vH5zxPY9xE7gaQnp-ipTmYekyd1h-1Pvn3J44yDQCl8A9tnkIiSoRnVysWgEuyhDMH6YmFsBD/s200/Aryan+Greece.gif" width="196" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;The Aryan Model had its genesis in Protestant North Germany between 1790 and 1830. At this time the new discipline of "Altertumswissenshaft" (Science of Antiquity) was born. The model is rooted in German nationalism and feelings of repugnance concerning the French Revolution. This model holds that Greece was settled by Indo-European stock. The focus of the new model was on the Greek ideal. The Greek ideal was reflective of German nationalism. The constant cultural borrowing and at times thievery of culture inherent to the Ancient Model were inconsistent with the assertions of the German intellectuals. In order to justify a German purity the Greek ideal was modified to show it an exemplar of sorts. By limiting the apparent influence of outside cultures and races in the Aryan Model neatly accomplished its goal. This model also gives faulty Aryan Invasion theory.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;3. New Ancient Model&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Bernal says that the racism and Anti-Semitism that characterized The Aryan Model are increasingly unacceptable. He proposes that Greek culture in general was heavily influenced by Northern African (specifically Egypt) and Phoenician culture. He also allows for the Indo-european element in the form of periodic invasions. In essence he restores the image of ancient Greece as a culture that has its roots in Egypt but also shaped many of those cultural icons in a fashion that is distinctly Greek. He sees it as a midpoint between the Greek idea of interaction but not origin in Africa, and the racial purity and anti-African tendencies of the Aryan Model.  &lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Not out of Africa Model&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Martin Bernal’s book, Black Athena, provoked much discussion ranging from simple academic debates to heated disputes on Afrocentrism, racism and Euro-centrism in classical scholarship. The principal figures in this debate are Bernal himself and Mary Lefkowitz. Lefkowitz published a response to Bernal’s book entitled Not Out of Africa, which was nearly as controversial as the original. Later on, Lefkowitz also published Black Athena Revisited, a collection of responses to Black Athena. The scholarly world was fairly evenly split, in terms of being for or against the argument proposed in Bernal’s book and by many Afro centrists. However, they often disagreed about exactly how one side or the other was wrong. These are a few of the issues raised in the reactions to Black Athena and how scholars responded to them.&lt;br /&gt;
Essentially, the argument is that both advocates and opponents of Afrocentrism have used faulty techniques to prove their points. Bernal clearly accuses Lefkowitz of  errors , and at the same time acknowledges that the Afro-centrists have made similar errors.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;Origins of Ideas&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiL9hgLBgYvvSc33AjE5heq32G7-rD-U305GqIOnAcUyhZFPl3jbNdnXeXKQG4kQiEx2FZG1y_YyC6yvQbRXYi03Bwa3OJYsxiTxPxR7Xmoc8vf9M051208HqmKy-URTL4ivo9dYzXL4z91/s1600/Origins+of+Ideas.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiL9hgLBgYvvSc33AjE5heq32G7-rD-U305GqIOnAcUyhZFPl3jbNdnXeXKQG4kQiEx2FZG1y_YyC6yvQbRXYi03Bwa3OJYsxiTxPxR7Xmoc8vf9M051208HqmKy-URTL4ivo9dYzXL4z91/s320/Origins+of+Ideas.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Another interesting idea raised in the aftermath of Black Athena is that of the origins of ideas. This idea was first presented in G. James’ Stolen Legacy in which James proposes that Plato, Aristotle and other major Greek philosophers "stole" their ideas from Egypt. Lawrence Tritle mentions the Afro-centrists’ take on this concept in his review of Not Out of Africa: "[Afro-centrists] adhere to a diffusionist understanding of culture, that ideas are created or born in one place and radiate outward. The idea that cultures in different parts of the world could develop similar ideas independently and contemporaneously seems regarded as an unlikely occurrence: someone must have first ‘created’ the idea which was then ‘given’ to someone else". Tritle says Lefkowitz asserts that ideas cannot actually be "stolen."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most important  reaction to Black Athena is the political opinions generated by its publication. Afrocentrism  was a little more political correct than Euro-centrism, and criticizing the Afrocentric point of view was to put oneself at risk of being labeled a racist, as Bernal points out: "Mary Lefkowitz believes that another and more significant reason why her colleagues let her down, was the fear of being labeled as racist." Perhaps in an effort to assure readers of her book’s unbiased nature, Lefkowitz says in her preface to Black Athena Revisited, "the authors of the essays in this book are young and old, black and white, male and female, European and American, and within the United States, from all parts of the country."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUYPj_L3UIc_KyAqZbwNfzskm2BegtS6cIPb6Fh7GOxtqUXwuWRwMkDlBh9ugpCiWGUOHvWdeFwfUJbodUHR-5DYV149R5jNu1P5Tc_7WHiqrFtV7uW0P9KeyVac7PmwP7G27qHGUMeivM/s1600/Egypt+set.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUYPj_L3UIc_KyAqZbwNfzskm2BegtS6cIPb6Fh7GOxtqUXwuWRwMkDlBh9ugpCiWGUOHvWdeFwfUJbodUHR-5DYV149R5jNu1P5Tc_7WHiqrFtV7uW0P9KeyVac7PmwP7G27qHGUMeivM/s320/Egypt+set.gif" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In Black Athena Revisited, Kathryn A. Bard gives reason as to why the subject of race might be irrelevant after all: "Ancient Egyptians were Mediterranean peoples, neither Sub-Saharan blacks nor Caucasian whites but peoples whose skin was adapted for life in a tropical desert environment.... Egyptians were the indigenous farmers of the Lower Nile Valley, neither black nor white as races are conceived of today." The modern ideas about race and the stigma often attached to one race or another simply did not exist in ancient times. The Egyptians may not have even been what we consider today to be "black people." Furthermore, as Lawrence A. Tritle notes, why should Egypt "stand for the rest of Africa?" He says, "Just because people lived on the same continent as the Greeks and Romans does not mean that they shared in the cultural achievements of either antecedent."   &lt;br /&gt;
Martin Bernal argues that Euro-centric archeologists in the 18th and 19th centuries failed to give credit to what he believes was the extensive influence that Egyptian and Near Eastern cultures had on classical Greek culture, specifically in the context of mythology.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;EVIDENCE OF THE CRETAN BULL CULT&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSrqrvpwCzV4MT74L4CYtJqbO4xaAJYDiwXwaY_PXJEaiyBGX5hIre8LsTaFUG1g7WUHFxNanTFkKRkMWwFPkXt_mdpb1EsM46dC6oTinkAzpg0It7-JDDuTGfmp2eQqpXUrTx4edGv8w8/s1600/Cretan+Bull.jpeg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSrqrvpwCzV4MT74L4CYtJqbO4xaAJYDiwXwaY_PXJEaiyBGX5hIre8LsTaFUG1g7WUHFxNanTFkKRkMWwFPkXt_mdpb1EsM46dC6oTinkAzpg0It7-JDDuTGfmp2eQqpXUrTx4edGv8w8/s320/Cretan+Bull.jpeg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;Before we can examine he origins of the Cretan Bull cult, we must first go over the evidence which proves it existed in the first place. It is commonly accepted among archaeologists that a bull cult did exist in Crete and had rituals concerning fertility; a ritualistic practice consisted of young women "proving" their fertility by jumping over the horns of a charging bull. In addition, according to Bernal, "the use of explicitly bovine Egyptian religious symbols in Crete in the early 2nd millennium can be seen in the 'horns of consecration', a sacred motif used so frequently that its function sometimes seems merely decorative in Cretan palatial culture".  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;b&gt;THE CONNECTION BETWEEN MIN AND PAN&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bernal hypothesizes that the Greek god Pan is the counterpart of the Egyptian God Min.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgEWbbtW6ydACqQKGGnYJ8-sykevEQ1ys9q5r4eD9uXeI3MiwUudHc_A15nBWk9ucRJRdhmZraJb-USMdd_8_mbU2HRd4iU9AbPmu88_hZPTPhM6WTQSPOana1Ceob6jZFsWqGLBHvRN6wi/s1600/Pan+God.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgEWbbtW6ydACqQKGGnYJ8-sykevEQ1ys9q5r4eD9uXeI3MiwUudHc_A15nBWk9ucRJRdhmZraJb-USMdd_8_mbU2HRd4iU9AbPmu88_hZPTPhM6WTQSPOana1Ceob6jZFsWqGLBHvRN6wi/s320/Pan+God.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;"The great god of flocks and shepherds among the Greeks, usually called a son of Hermes, was originally an Arcadian God; and Arcadia was always the principal seat of his worship. From the country his name and worship after wards spread over other parts of Greece; but at Athens his worship was not introduced till the time of the battle of Marathon. He is described as wandering among the mountains and valleys of Arcadia…Pan…was dreaded by travelers, to whom he sometimes appeared, and whom he startled with sudden awe or terror. Hence sudden fright, without any visible cause, was ascribed to Pan, and was called a Panic fear. In works of art Pan is represented as a sensual being, with horns, puck-nose, and goat’s feet, sometimes in the act of dancing, and sometimes playing on the syrinx."&lt;br /&gt;
Bernal establishes early associations between Egypt and Crete, before the existence of the bull cult, by examining the ways in which Min and Pan could be connected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;b&gt;Evidence that Bernal presents for this connection is as follows:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;"Diodoros Sikeliotes, an  ancient historian, named the gods of the Ethiopians of Meroe…as  Isis, Pan, Heracles, and Zeus" . He says that the ancient  geographer Strabo also confirmed that they worshiped Pan.   &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;Min was associated with  fertility  and growth in Egypt, unlike his cult as a divinity of the desert.  His dual aspects of a desert deity and fertility are a result of his  worship having traveled from Punt to the Eastern Desert to Upper  Egypt, and in Upper Egypt he became assimilated to the ancient  fertility god of Koptos ( which means Bull of his Mother). Thus, Min  became associated with the bull through his assimilation with  Koptos.   &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkLMoqrAEPf4pGBjp2P6T3xOyNACAD1GkUiufSOpuf3zb7X2LMSCCJNDxFV6bBB3cLgBB2PI7zTRUicDFx7Jyk-qt2Ed6KX3X2sj4DrSE6Gu03wsSqOcPVb2aaUu2bMT0orbRRPXiyp3kR/s1600/Min+God.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkLMoqrAEPf4pGBjp2P6T3xOyNACAD1GkUiufSOpuf3zb7X2LMSCCJNDxFV6bBB3cLgBB2PI7zTRUicDFx7Jyk-qt2Ed6KX3X2sj4DrSE6Gu03wsSqOcPVb2aaUu2bMT0orbRRPXiyp3kR/s320/Min+God.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;He explains that the god Min,  whose token animal is the bull, became associated with the god Amon,  whose token animal is the ram/goat, who then became associated with  the god Pan, whose token animal is also the ram/goat. Bernal says  that "Pan's derivation from Min would seem to be confirmed, not  only by his great phallus, his association with the fertility of  stock and his living in the wilderness and the negroid blackness  with which he, like his attendant satyrs, was often portrayed".  Thus, Min--Amon--Pan.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;THE CONNECTION BETWEEN MIN AND MINOS&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
"[King Minos was]….king and legislator of Crete, and after death one of the judges of shades in Hades…He was the husband of Pasiphae. In order to avenge the wrong done to his son Androgeos at Athens, he made war against the Athenians, and compelled them to send to Crete every year, as a tribute, 7 youths and 7 maidens, to be devoured in the labyrinth by the Minotauros. The Minotaur was a monster, half man and half bull, and the offspring of the intercourse of Pasiphae with a bull."&lt;br /&gt;
Furthermore, King Minos was the son of Europa and Zeus, a maiden who was kidnapped and seduced by Zeus when he assumed the form of a white bull.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Bernal's evidence for Minos' origin in Min is as follows:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh79tXb6BT8zL0UzrJkIQHsk-4SSEhyphenhyphenEBd7VHszLEEVhKpXp1CWr9tq8RQ4WxjZdyb_KLSWHS2H0XsfE1o4m1XSuBL3Hzyh-WRqZsGnNfHeHpqiJmvViqcSeM1UWWPZNxAhci72zjmh1DN_/s1600/Kemetic+Royalty.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh79tXb6BT8zL0UzrJkIQHsk-4SSEhyphenhyphenEBd7VHszLEEVhKpXp1CWr9tq8RQ4WxjZdyb_KLSWHS2H0XsfE1o4m1XSuBL3Hzyh-WRqZsGnNfHeHpqiJmvViqcSeM1UWWPZNxAhci72zjmh1DN_/s320/Kemetic+Royalty.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;Minos' role as the judge of  shades  in the afterlife is consistent with the role of the Egyptian god  Osiris, also the "judge of the dead man" (Bernal 170).  Minos can be connected to Min through Osiris because of Osiris'  connection with Amon, who, by the 7th century B.C. , was  "assimilated with Osiris", and then, through Amon's  'fundamental affinity' with Min, can be connected further to Min.  Min and Amon "were associated at Thebes since the 11th Dynasty  and by the New Kingdom. Amon and Re seem in many cults to have been  fused with Min as a single massively endowed ithyphallic figure"  . Thus, Minos--Osiris--Amon--Min.   &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;The name "Mn" was used  by "an important pharoah early in the 1st dynasty and in later  times Mn was universally considered to be the founder of dynastic  rule" . Diodoros, an ancient historian that Bernal cites  elsewhere, connected the pharoah called Mn with King Minos by saying  that "'according to the tradition he claimed that Hermes had  given the laws to him…just as the Greeks they say that Minos did  in Crete…[Minos] saying that he had received his laws from Zeus…'"  . Bernal states that the connection between King Minos and the  Pharoah Mn can be taken further to associate, again, King Minos with  the god Min by establishing a connection between the pharoah and the  Egyptian god, stating that "there were occasions in Egypt when  [Mn] and [Min] were worshipped together" . Thus, Minos--pharoah  Mn--god Min.   &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEglCsbf78fgqXt6IVzin3J974t89JaPRdakvMT4wSo-Pa4yNWP49WvRi0dgr3_fa-1GLaCyUJApUm6jOxFzjr_azNqjxIr7647PeAwyctXTiHzF8ngZjKag1x_eaYOTRnQeCbn-CZ9lYqtO/s1600/thyia_dionysus.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEglCsbf78fgqXt6IVzin3J974t89JaPRdakvMT4wSo-Pa4yNWP49WvRi0dgr3_fa-1GLaCyUJApUm6jOxFzjr_azNqjxIr7647PeAwyctXTiHzF8ngZjKag1x_eaYOTRnQeCbn-CZ9lYqtO/s320/thyia_dionysus.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;As for the labyrinth of King  Minos, Bernal makes a linguistic argument: he states that "from  the earliest times, there has ben considerable confusion in Egyptian  among the three biconsonantals mr, mn, and nm"  All three  sounds are associated with cattle, which is an obvious potential  connection with the bull cult; in addition, the phonetic nm is also  connected with the meaning of "winding wall" in Late  Egyptian. Therefore, the biconsonantal nm is associated both with  cattle and a "winding wall". Here, then, is linguistic  evidence that indicates Egypt as being the origin of King Minos'  labyrinth. Thus, mn--nm--labyrinth.   &lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;Other similarities between  Minos  and Min: Minos was renowned for his lechery, which is a trait of the  god Min; Min had a white bull consecrated to him, and Minos' wife  Pasiphae was impregnated by a white bull; and finally, the depiction  of the Minotaur as a man with a bull's head can be compared to the  manner in which the Egyptians portrayed their gods as having men's  bodies and the heads of animals.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzI0bFGLjK-qFuHmX__hA1reFzX5q9_5UK-gOochHgqam_FuCt7bwwDIimww0pVp8UXuB6GoUJkt5poHlxT2aEBQ9PrKX-tlWxgk60LahN1b-l4N_Yz38cQeu2rwiCt5HXKRUmdEvmMyUK/s1600/Rhadamanthys+Minos+Aiakos.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgzI0bFGLjK-qFuHmX__hA1reFzX5q9_5UK-gOochHgqam_FuCt7bwwDIimww0pVp8UXuB6GoUJkt5poHlxT2aEBQ9PrKX-tlWxgk60LahN1b-l4N_Yz38cQeu2rwiCt5HXKRUmdEvmMyUK/s320/Rhadamanthys+Minos+Aiakos.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;&lt;b&gt;Conclusion&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
We have seen the arguments, as we can see neither side will agree to the other. No place is an Island in the world as far as movement of people or movement of influences or movement of legends. More Independent view is required  to ascertain the facts. But that is impossible now as both sides are not willing to give in on any neutral authority and cling on to their beliefs.  Today the issue is more political one than Academic one.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Source&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://faculty.vassar.edu/jolott/old_courses/crosscurrents2001/blackathena/index.html"&gt;Vassar&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/02/dating-ancient-greek-civilization.html"&gt;Dating Greek Civilization&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-indo-europeans.html"&gt;Indo European Origin &lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/trojan-war-myth-or-reality.html"&gt;Trojan War&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/03/date-of-homer.html"&gt;Homer Date&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/myth-of-tutsi-invasion-theory.html"&gt;Tutsi Invasion Theory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/05/black-athena-debate.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXidC42YgiM10GH-v1N6mGvfg6rIEoleEeTP7kx3HJGgAEnsJFGwP90R3L2KSChLKSpS6vh-FcMxYB1Dk8IUTcJKxXYH1H4u2ryPilVPAAQbS2pN2QCVyxHUoyoEkobOHatMRdlJGhlayE/s72-c/African+Athena.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>5</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-508772678436924330</guid><pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:19:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2014-03-28T16:04:13.654+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Arabic</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Hindi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Muslim</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">persia</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Turk</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Urdu</category><title>Myths of Urdu</title><description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Pick up any Urdu textbook and the chances are that it will endorse the following myths: (&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;strong&gt;The term ‘Urdu’ means military camp. Language is called ‘Urdu’ because it was created in the army camps of the Mughals especially during the reign of Shah Jahan;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Urdu is a mixed language (khitchri zubaan);&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Urdu is a Muslim language.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt; &lt;p&gt;Now let us deal with these myths one by one.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;All the histories in Persian about medieval India use the Turkish word ‘Urdu’ (which means ‘camp’ in original Turkish) for ‘city’. The word is not used in the original Turkish meaning in Indian sources in Persian for the most part. Sometimes the terms ‘Urdu-i-mualla’ and ‘Urdu-i-badshahi’ are also used. During Shah Jahan’s time, Urdu-i-mualla referred to the language spoken in the city of Shahjahanabad (Delhi).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The language we now call Urdu has an ancestor referred to as Hindvi and Hindi in most medieval Persian sources. In Gujrat, however, the language is called Gujri and sometimes Gujrati. In the Deccan it is called Dakani and around the Delhi area it is also called Dehlavi. During the 18th century the word ‘Rekhta’ was also used for it.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Meanwhile the British, and also some other outsiders, call it Indostan, Moors and then Hindustani. In fact, the name ‘Hindustani’ was used so much by the British that both Muslim and Hindu scholars often used it themselves for their common heritage during the 1930s and 1940s.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Syed Sulaiman Nadwi and some other thinkers who wanted Hindu-Muslim unity in British India even suggested that the term ‘Urdu’ be abandoned in favour of ‘Hindustani’ because the former conjured up the image of a military conquest and war whereas the latter had no such symbolic baggage.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;The word ‘Urdu’ is a contraction of the phrase ‘zubaan-i-Urdu-i-mualla’ (i.e. the language of the exalted city) which came to be used during the late 18th century. It is, in fact, the most recent name for a language which certainly existed even in the 13th century. There are words and sentences which we can recognise even today in the malfuzat (sayings) and tazkiras (biographies) as well as other records of that period. They refer to the language used in the marketplace, songs, conversation and in homes. The military reference does not exist though the language must have been used among soldiers also.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;It was certainly used in religious circles because even in far-off Kaniguram in Waziristan, a religious reformer called Bayazid Ansari wrote a book called Khairul Bayan in 1560 which has over 16 lines in this language which the author calls Hindi.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Now for the myth that Urdu is a mixture of other languages. If a language is really a mixture it is called pidgin which is nobody’s mother tongue and a reduced language. It may become a creole when it is developed and becomes somebody’s mother tongue.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Urdu’s ancestor — call it what you will — existed in India (probably in the vicinity of Delhi) as a full language. Words of Persian and Arabic origin crept into it. This was not because of military activities but ordinary everyday interaction.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;This is a natural process and modern English came about in exactly this manner. That is why about half the vocabulary of English is from Latin and Greek via Norman French. But English is not called a ‘mixed language’ so why should Urdu be stigmatised as such?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;If one starts calling languages mixed in the sense that there was no base for them and words from different languages combined then Urdu is not that kind of product. Urdu is mixed in the same way that English is: it has absorbed words from many languages. The third myth that Urdu is a Muslim language is more problematic. For about 500 years of its existence nobody called it Urdu. It was called Hindi and had many words of Sanskrit origin as do other texts — until the 18th century.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Then a language reform movement initiated by Muslim poets (Hatim, Mirza Mazhar, Nasikh’s students etc) threw out certain words from the corpus of the language. Among them were words like chinta (worry), prem (love), sundar (beautiful) etc. The movement was actually an attempt to create a linguistic marker for the cultural elite which was mostly Muslim. However, instead of being merely a class movement it became a religious one. Thus, Urdu was imbued with distinctive Perso-Arabic cultural content and served as an identity symbol for the Muslims of India.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;In the same way, after 1802, modern Hindi was created by weeding out Persian and Arabic words and using only the Devanagari script for writing. These new languages — Sanskritised Hindi and Persianised Urdu — drifted apart from each other and still serve as identity markers for Hindu and Muslim nationalism in South Asia.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;During the Pakistan Movement, Urdu became a symbol of the identity of South Asia’s Muslims. It was invested with emotional force and Maulvi Abdul Haq, who used to term it a composite language while in India, started calling it the mainstay of Muslim separatism. &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Similarly, Sanskritised Hindi became the symbol of the attempt to eliminate the share of Muslims in Indian culture. This political gulf between the two sister languages remains to this day — although at the spoken level, Urdu and Hindi remain the same language as all Indians who watch Pakistani dramas and all Pakistanis who watch Hindi movies will testify.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;However, while Pakistani Muslims insist that Urdu is a Muslim language, the Muslims of India refer to it as a composite language. This is because it is in the political interests of Pakistani Muslims to emphasise the differences between themselves and the Indians while the opposite is in the political interests of Indian Muslims.&lt;/p&gt; In short, Urdu means different things to different people. It is only by separating the myth from reality that we can appreciate its true nature.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Source&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.dawn.com/"&gt;Dr Tariq Rahman &lt;/a&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/11/myths-of-urdu.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><thr:total>0</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-8000346048848823637</guid><pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:54:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2009-10-26T18:04:30.848+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ashoka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Greek</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">ionion</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mahabharata</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">munda</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pali</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Panini</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">saka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Yavana</category><title>Origin of Yavanas -  Greek Myth</title><description>Yavanas are  thought to have been Greeks by Western scholars tracing to Ionians .  Is that so, Let us see the facts.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;References to Yavanas in India&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In Indian sources, the usage of the words "Yona", "Yauna", "Yonaka", "Yavana" or "Javana" etc. appears repeatedly,   Let us see them in Detail &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Edicts of Ashoka&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Experts say in the Edicts of Ashoka (c. 250 BCE) especially  In the Gandhari  Rock XIII : Antiochus is referred as "Amtiyoko nama Yona-raja" (lit. "The Greek king by the name of Antiochus"), beyond whom live the four other kings: "param ca tena Atiyokena cature 4 rajani Turamaye nama Amtikini nama Maka nama Alikasudaro nama" (lit. "And beyond Antiochus, four kings by the name of Ptolemy, the name of Antigonos, the name of Magas, the name Alexander").  &lt;p&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgFzCpVuv1eaAGkaM9xr9gNSfN4w5QPG8H_jFFunk5yezfSBanGvwquiTqgjiqeshLgwR3Ay9Iuk22PmiggbDXHcnI6v41-hGIdGEFIpEZDcPQKpIGkPNs5Me8kgYIcto-qwewLEXiSRGU/s1600-h/Ashoka+Rock+Edict+Manshera+Pakistan.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 225px; height: 169px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgFzCpVuv1eaAGkaM9xr9gNSfN4w5QPG8H_jFFunk5yezfSBanGvwquiTqgjiqeshLgwR3Ay9Iuk22PmiggbDXHcnI6v41-hGIdGEFIpEZDcPQKpIGkPNs5Me8kgYIcto-qwewLEXiSRGU/s320/Ashoka+Rock+Edict+Manshera+Pakistan.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5396877686703653298" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Dipavamsa , Mahavamsa and Sasanvamsa  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Buddhist texts such as the Dipavamsa, Mahavamsa and the Sasanavamsa reveal that after the Third Buddhist Council, the elder (thera) Mahárakkhita was sent to the Yona country and he preached Dharma among the Yonas and the Kambojas.  &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Milindapanha&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another example is that of the Milinda Panha , where "Yonaka" is used to refer to  king Menanders (160–135 BCE ) guards. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mahabharata &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Vanaparava of Mahabharata contains verses in the form of prophecy complaining that "......Mlechha (barbaric) kings of the Shakas, Yavanas, Kambojas, Bahlikas etc. shall rule the earth (i.e India) un-righteously in Kaliyuga..." . This reference apparently alludes to chaotic political scenario following the collapse of dharmic  dynasties in northern India and its subsequent occupation by non-dharmic  hordes of the Yavanas, Kambojas, Sakas and Pahlavas etc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt; Others&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;other Indian records describe the  Yavana attacks on Saketa, Panchala, Mathura and Pataliputra, probably against the Sunga empire, and possibly in defense of Buddhism. The main mentions of the invasion are those by Patanjali around 150 BCE, and of the Yuga Purana, which, like the Mahabharata, also describes Indian historical events in the form of a prophecy:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Yavana in other cultures.   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;  Egyptians used the word j-w-n(-n)-’&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Assyrians used the word Iawanu&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Persians used the word Yauna or  Yavanu&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Sri Lankans - used the word Yona  in Mahawamsa and other historic texts.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;In Biblical writings, the word was  Yāvān (and still is, in modern Israeli Hebrew - יוון)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;In Arabic and Turkish it is Yunan   See Also Sanskrit Yoni &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt; So what is the problem in telling   Yavana are Greek,  Let us analyze.&lt;br /&gt;  &lt;br /&gt;  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Not Greeks   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Greeks coming to Yavana Janapada (republic) in NorthWest(Not Bactria perhaps Khandahar) became Yavanas. There is never a Greek Ionia in the east    , which is neither stated in Persian inscriptions, nor by Herodotus.     &lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQlLKzf2UrICFNc0iM13UZvU7VqEG7KjHTRWq9He53h_kcoEeQpm1dgSNWiNvVmptfCosisUWtJl8CZuUxi7iOvbHBIVrj3wEbFdneKZ9rMLyOrc5HmMmV66ilMSli24D7HniNGq8a9dl2/s1600-h/Krisha+and+Arjuna+-+Mahabharata.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 240px; height: 320px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQlLKzf2UrICFNc0iM13UZvU7VqEG7KjHTRWq9He53h_kcoEeQpm1dgSNWiNvVmptfCosisUWtJl8CZuUxi7iOvbHBIVrj3wEbFdneKZ9rMLyOrc5HmMmV66ilMSli24D7HniNGq8a9dl2/s320/Krisha+and+Arjuna+-+Mahabharata.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5396882469371319298" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yavanas of King Bhagadatta in the Mahabharata are placed in south/south    west(present Karnataka / Maharastra) India before the Yadu migration scene to Dvaraka. It would not make sense for Yadus to migrate to the west if Yavanas at   attacked Mathura from the same west.  &lt;span&gt;&lt;span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;   During Panini dated 600BC , there is no Greeks in India Neibhourhood , so the question of Panini referring to Greeks as Yavanas does not arise.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The  date for Krishna are 3100BC.  So, it is less likely to be that Yavanas are the Greeks. Because Greeks or Ionians were not there before 300BC.      &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are three words distinct used    Yuana before 400BC , Yavana between 400BC to 200BC and After 200BC  as Yona in Pali texts. Sometimes both Yavana and Yona are mentioned.    &lt;br /&gt;  &lt;br /&gt;Antigonos, Magas,  Alexander are more Greek than Antiochus(Syria), but only Antiochous is mentioned as yona raja ,which shows yona does not mean Greek.    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Kala-yavana, the "Dark Yavana" of the Mahabharata, who fought with Duryodhana. While in India dark always   refer to  evil mentality,  it is possible this Dark-Yavana is of dark complexion, and perhaps pertaining to  south India.     &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And when Greek were in India, they were based out of  Egypt rather than Greece.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Yavanas are Indians   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;  Literature  shows them Indians.     &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The first (attested) Greek to be connected with the word Yon a is Antioch us in ca. 250 BCE. He is called Yona-raja = king over Yona people and their Janapada. His 4 Greek collegues are simply called Raja.     &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Indo-Greek Menander in the Milindapanha. In that work he  is simply called Raja, king of Yona country (Yonanam). But his 500 elite soldiers, mercenaries from Yonanam, are called Yonakas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Indo-Greek Antialcidas. He is called  simply Maharaja, but it is Heliodora, son of Diya, who is the Vaishnavite Yona and ambassador to king Bhagabhadra.&lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;dl&gt;&lt;dd style="margin-left: 0in;"&gt;  &lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiRRbMEBWNmUYfnho8L5JdL2stutDlvWPUEeKPHWCw2lJ7BrQE3V9nz5SZogHzm3bpHDRs5Mf5OlonJhaPDlTWz3vs2jiEBXWxq3xQPfQqgy4uEWbhMxndUwNz8f4THqji8wJY_IucLsmvo/s1600-h/Menander.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 185px; height: 239px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiRRbMEBWNmUYfnho8L5JdL2stutDlvWPUEeKPHWCw2lJ7BrQE3V9nz5SZogHzm3bpHDRs5Mf5OlonJhaPDlTWz3vs2jiEBXWxq3xQPfQqgy4uEWbhMxndUwNz8f4THqji8wJY_IucLsmvo/s320/Menander.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5396877674476839250" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/dd&gt;&lt;/dl&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Also contrast the clear Greek names of Greeks and Indo-Greek kings and those of the Yonas: Yavanaraja     Tushaspha. Heliodorus’ may have adopted a Greek name under influence of the powerful status of the Indo-Greeks ruling over Yona country up to Taxila. The Mili ndapanha has these names for Yonas: Anantakâya (Yonako), Devamantiya (Yonako), Mankura (Yonako) and Sabbadinna or Dinna (Yonako).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It knows the Yonakâ as tribe., and Saka-yavana as the countries (Seistan-Arachosia/Quetta. Compare with Shaka-yavana of Patanjali. Shakas are attested before the Scythian invasion of the 1st century BCE in the NW).   &lt;br /&gt;  &lt;br /&gt; “A vast body of Kharoshthl inscriptions found at  several sites in the north-western region of the sub-continent are not much help either The term Yavana seldom occurs in these records, dated to the first few centuries of the Christian era, but the names of the donors are undoubtedly of Greek origin.” Ray adds: “The Swat relic vase inscription of the first century B.C. records the establishment of the relics of the  Sakyamunl by Theodoros, … An engraved stone from Bajaur, south-east of Jalalabad, reads "of   king Theodamas". .. The Kaldarra inscription records the laying of a tank by Thaidora or Theodoros, the Datiaputra”. But when Yavana is applied, see what Ray says: “ …Karle 314 and date from the first century A.D , the donors have Indian names such as Dhamadhaya, Chulayakha, Sihadhaya and Yasavadhana.     &lt;br /&gt;   &lt;br /&gt;At Nasik cave XVII (dated after 110 A.D ), Indragnidatta, son of Dhammadeva the Yavana..” Indo-Greeks seem to retain their Greek names, but it is the Yonas  who adopt names from other   &lt;br /&gt;cultures, the vaste majority being Indic (or some persian, and a few Greek, like the name Heliodorus).&lt;br /&gt;The Puranas make them decendants of the Turvashas,  peoples of South-   Western India (karnataka / maharastra).     &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Literature shows Yavanas are becoming degraded Kshatriyas speaking in a dialect form (Mleccha), once having a better position and not at all being treated as foreigners.   &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; Yavanas of King Bhagadatta in the Mahabharata are placed in south/southwest India before the Yadu migration scene to Dvaraka.     &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Panini refers to the Yavanas around 600BC, or perhaps earlier. They appear to be related to the Kambojas, since he mentions they both were condemned to shave their heads.  T&lt;span&gt;&lt;span&gt;his shows that the Yavanas were people that shaved their heads.  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in; font-style: normal;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="font-style: normal;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;dl&gt;&lt;dd&gt;  &lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_e2QZxoVTtLuq5o7VNbxVjPS0M3cBq0nsnLcVE-o1VJiGeZT6DZTDvkUi6SLXUC87I9bGfhuA8o7r44a7th_xGrgEEklUenFxxt_t4vn6MXJIfBSV6F6ZMmq1hP9-_aK_dMnH1iIIr0sU/s1600-h/panini.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 157px; height: 110px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_e2QZxoVTtLuq5o7VNbxVjPS0M3cBq0nsnLcVE-o1VJiGeZT6DZTDvkUi6SLXUC87I9bGfhuA8o7r44a7th_xGrgEEklUenFxxt_t4vn6MXJIfBSV6F6ZMmq1hP9-_aK_dMnH1iIIr0sU/s320/panini.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5396876657935755122" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/dd&gt;&lt;/dl&gt; &lt;p style="font-style: normal;"&gt;Famed Yavanacharya, the great Yavana-astrologer who studied Vedic astrology.  In  Takshashila, in  North  Western India, which had existed from 700BC , also attracted students from all over the world, so the scholar tells us. But again 700BC, No greeks in India.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p&gt;Here however, we see that Yavana is a term that began in India itself, for the Vedic Aryans themselves - not foreigners! But, they do appear as peoples related to ancient Indians, or Vedic Indians - which predates the Greeks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Gautama Dharmasutra , which refers to Yavanas as a mixture of Kshatriya father and Shudra mother&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Yavana kings in the Mahabharata are called: Yavana (ancient great kings), Chanura Devarata (mentioned with a Bhoja and Kirata king, showing that these were ruling in the east, south and of course Chanura in the west), Sumitra (rules in Sauvira country in the west. Battle with Pandu), Bhagadatta (rules in the west. Old friend of Pandu), Kasherumat (Battle with&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;Krshna.  Probable direct predecessor of Kalayavana), Kalayavana Garg ya (mentioned as king of western India. Battle with Krshna). These names are Indian, not Foreign.    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Dharma of Yavanas&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;yavanâH kirâtâ gândhârâśh cînâH śhabarabarbarâH | śhakâs tuSHârâH kahvâśh ca pahlavâśh cândhramadrakâH  oDrâH pulindā ramaTHâH kâcā mlecchâśh ca sarvaśhaH | brahmakSHatraprasûtâśh ca vaiśhyâH śhûdrâśh ca mânavâH&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;ie.'What duties should be performed collectively by the Yavana, Kirata, Gandhara, Cina (ishwa: Shina), Shabara, Barbara, Shaka, Tushara (ishwa: high mountaineer), Kahvas (var. Kanka), Pahlava, Andhra, Madraka, Odra (var. Paundra), Pulinda, Ramatha and Mleccha (var. Kamboja) Vaishyas and Shudras and offshoots of Brahma-Kshatras, (all these) Manavas?    &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; The Duties to be performed by Kshatriayas are&lt;br /&gt;&lt;ol&gt;&lt;li&gt;serve their mothers and fathers,  their preceptors and other seniors, and recluses living in the  woods.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; serve their kings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;follow duties and rites  inculcated in the Vedas.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;perform sacrifices in honour of  the Pitris, dig wells, give water to thirsty travellers, give away  beds and make other seasonable presents unto Brahmanas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;Abstention from injury, truth,  suppression of wrath, supporting Brahmanas and kinsmen by giving  them their dues, maintenance of wives and children, purity,  peacefulness,&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt; making presents to Brahmanas at  sacrifices of every kind, are duties that should be  practised by  every person of this class who desire his own prosperity. Such a  person should also perform all kinds of Paka-yajnas with costly  presents of food and wealth.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt; &lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;And it means t hat those who fail to follow the above dharma is Yuana So Yavanas are the Kshatriyas(Warrior Clans) who dont follow the law or dharma.&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;    &lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Yavana Indian Etymology   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The word Yavana, if it is assumed to be Indian, can be derived in three ways. Firstly, from yu = 'keeping away', 'averting' (dveSHo yavana), signifying one who is disliked. Secon dly, from yu   &lt;br /&gt;'mixing, mingling',(i.e. Yauti mishrayati vaa mishriibhavati sarvattra jaatibhedaabhaavaat iti yavanah), implying a mixed people. Thirdly, from the meaning, 'quick', 'swift'; a swift horse, (i.e. Yavena gacchatiiti yavanah), denoting those who have a quick mode of conveyance. These derivations taken together may indicate that the Yavanas were thought  of as a mixed   &lt;br /&gt;people, who had a quick mode of conveyance and who were disliked. However these derivations are recent. But Experts disagree on this meanings already.   &lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;dl&gt;&lt;dd&gt;   &lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwCElHjpi8tHzmcf9hAu66pYh-_iHQqYBX5AF4avUKT8JcJmgTUiWmuh0YM0qJ_nztq11kjukJBaw1rsMr1pvkv7uXH7qRfqVRgv7Z9xutUuT4y7_ANesXMmYP9mu8QpwYLe4rhsI8cePM/s1600-h/Heliodorus+Pillar.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 320px; height: 212px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhwCElHjpi8tHzmcf9hAu66pYh-_iHQqYBX5AF4avUKT8JcJmgTUiWmuh0YM0qJ_nztq11kjukJBaw1rsMr1pvkv7uXH7qRfqVRgv7Z9xutUuT4y7_ANesXMmYP9mu8QpwYLe4rhsI8cePM/s320/Heliodorus+Pillar.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5396877683884168306" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/dd&gt;&lt;/dl&gt; &lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;“Firstly, from the yu = 'keeping away', 'averting' (dveSHo yavana), signifying one who is disliked.” The word doesn’t signify one who is  disliked, but rather Yavana is the one who keeps away, he keeps a way the Dvesha or the enemy. Yavana here rather denotes a protector, a Kshatriya, thus someone who is liked and needed! This word Dvesho yavana is from the Vedic (!) Krshnayajurveda. Thus not a recent word, as it  conjectures. More ancient, Vedic words from this root: dveSHo-yávana (MaitrS.) and mfn. removing hostility. dveSHo-yút (RV.), mfn. removing hostility. pra-yotR'  m. a remover, expeller . Or Yaavan.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Secondly, from yu 'mixing, mingling', (i.e. Yauti mishrayati vaa mishriibhavati sarvattra jaatibhedaabhaavaat iti yavanah), implying a mixed people.” , but these are the true meanings given to the root he has in mind:  yu does not mean mixing, but “to unite, attach, harness, yoke, bind, fasten RV.(=yuj); to draw  towards one's self, take hold or gain possession of, hold fast AV. TS. ShBr.; to push on towards (acc.) AV.; to confer or bestow upon (dat.), procure RV.; (yauti), to worship, honour Naigh. Iii,” (It is from this root that the Vedic Yaavan  and A-yaavan are derived from for the halves of the moon..).  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thirdlyfrom an ancient root yu = to move quickly. There are more Vedic words from this root denoting to move (quickly): yaávan m.  a rider horseman, invader, aggressor, foe R.  (ifc.) going, driving, riding (cf. akSNa-, agra-, eka-y &amp;amp;c.) akSNa-yaávan mfn. going across  agra-yaávan mfn. going before   eka-yaávan m.  of a king TBr. ii TâNDyaBr; RNa-yaávan mfn. relieving fro m debt or obligations  praatar-yaaan “who moves at early morning”  puro-yaavan “who moves foremost”  sa-yaavan -"going along with, associated with,accompanying   Thus, the words yáva speed, velocity (prob. w.r. for java); a double convex lens ib. [yava; {Gk.}; Lith. javaí.], yavana mfn. quick, swift; m. a swift horse L. (prob.w.r. for javana) and yavaana mfn. quick, swift L. (prob. w.r. for javaana), have all ancient Vedic roots.&lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;   &lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Yavanas are Indigenous Tribe&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Yavanas are enumerated together with Pârashavas, Yavanas, Caranas, and Shûdras. None of the Varnas mentioned in IV.16-21 do refer to any foreigner, but rather of a mixture of indigenous Varnas and Jatis. Parashavas or connected with parashu or the axe of a woodcutter. As frontier people (paccantima) they became degenerated in the eyes of the immediately adjoining main land (majjhima). The pre-Alexandrian Ganapatha remembers Yavanas as Munda, unlike the hairdress of (Indo-)Greeks. The Majjhima Nikaya mentions that the Yonas call their varna Arya! Did the Greeks consider themselves as such? No refere nce to this with the Greaco-Roman historians&lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgX7iRMsYDzsMamorzFGtdLwY4y_Zz2qON_bnwyEFuNOoEktA0roA3B2nYHSKwEbaJAI1PkCajXQdGJA857E8LkBmpkDw8itSYtkTmzZimGFAALz-sXCyUMlEjwivTZnxTi9hOXYNlvHloH/s1600-h/munda+tribe+.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 232px; height: 275px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgX7iRMsYDzsMamorzFGtdLwY4y_Zz2qON_bnwyEFuNOoEktA0roA3B2nYHSKwEbaJAI1PkCajXQdGJA857E8LkBmpkDw8itSYtkTmzZimGFAALz-sXCyUMlEjwivTZnxTi9hOXYNlvHloH/s320/munda+tribe+.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5396876645555294786" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;Compared to the doubtful etymologies for Ionian, the etymology of yavana is much better and logical. In Yavana we have a normal indigenous development of fusion of ideas and meanings which we can observe in many other words or ideas (aspects of Indra absorbed in Vishnu- Krshna, etc.etc.)  Besides, all the different Indian works point to the indigenous character of Yavanas.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In short, Ionian as Yauna doesn't seem to have been known to Indians at all before Alexander. After Alexander, it does seem that the Indo-Greeks were rather known through the central country they were ruling over, which was Yona Janapada. And Yona Janapada can not be equated with Bactria, it is always within the subcontinent, close to the Indus area.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Yona-Kamboja- Gandhara is the frontier line of India from south to the north of the (western bank of the) Indus Valley: Yona -Baluchistan, Kamboja - Gomal/Bannu Valley, Ghandra - Kabul/Swat Valley.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"&gt;Source&lt;/span&gt;    &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rodney Lingham   &lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;YAVANAS ARE NOT GREEKS By Ishwa&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Related Posts&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/who-are-ancient-kambojas-and-their-land.html"&gt;&lt;span&gt;Who are Kambojas&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/04/myth-of-alexander-victory-in-india.html"&gt;Myth of Alexander Victory in India&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/02/dating-ancient-greek-civilization.html"&gt;&lt;span&gt;Dating Ancient Greek Civilization &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-and-time-controversies-of.html"&gt;&lt;span&gt;Zarathustra&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html"&gt;Topics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/10/origin-of-yavanas-greek-myth.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgFzCpVuv1eaAGkaM9xr9gNSfN4w5QPG8H_jFFunk5yezfSBanGvwquiTqgjiqeshLgwR3Ay9Iuk22PmiggbDXHcnI6v41-hGIdGEFIpEZDcPQKpIGkPNs5Me8kgYIcto-qwewLEXiSRGU/s72-c/Ashoka+Rock+Edict+Manshera+Pakistan.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>23</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-871081732257463768</guid><pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:20:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2014-03-08T11:29:29.081+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Alexander</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ashoka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Burma</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">china</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Combodia</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Greek</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Indonesia</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Japan</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Korean</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Lanka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maurya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Pali</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Purana</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">sanskrit</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Thai</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Tibet</category><title>Date of Buddha</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
Most of us are taught that Buddha was born around 560 to 550 B.C. However, once we start doing some research, we find evidence that this date may be too late. Buddha may have  lived much earlier. Let us see how Buddha is dated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let us see the Traditional Theories at arriving date of Buddha.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Long chronology&lt;/span&gt; Based on the Mahavamsa and Dipavamsa  accounts which state that 218 years difference between Buddha Death  and Ashoka Conversion. Which put date of the Buddha’s death is  544/543 B.C.E.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Corrected chronology&lt;/span&gt;  According to Richard Gombrich, Aśoka’s  dates are approximately established by the synchronism between his  13th major rock edict, which is dated by scholars in the 13th year  after  his consecration, and the five monarchs of the Hellenistic  world named therein as reigning at the time. The date of the edict  must be 255 B.C., give or take a year; Aśoka’s consecration is  accordingly dated 268 B.C. So the Date of Buddha's Death is 483BC&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;short chronology &lt;/span&gt; Many Sanskrit , Tibetan and  chinese  traditions say the difference between date of Asoka coronation and  Date of Nirvana of Buddha to be 100 years and Chinese accounts say  116 years. So the date can be anywhere between 544BC to 440BC depending on which theory you are following.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Dot-ted record&lt;/span&gt;.  This account, taken from Chi-nese  sources and referred to initially by Tao-hsüan in the Ta t’ang  nei tien lu, argues that when Upāli, first collected the Vinaya after the Buddha’s death, he marked a dot in the manuscript at the  end of the pavarana, and continued the process in each year  thereafter. His successors, Dāsaka, Sonaka, Siggava, Moggali-putta,  Tissa, Caṇḍavajji, and so forth continued the process. Samghabhadra, who presumably translated the Samantapāsādikā into  Chinese, is said to have put the 975th dot on the manuscript during  a visit to Canton in 489 C.E., thus establishing the Buddha’s  death in 486 B.C.E. &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
But we are not bothered by this relative chronology based on the date of Ashoka cornation. Since we have seen that Ashoka grandfather  chandragupta Maurya is itself is not based on Solid evidence the article &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthanese Meet Chandrgupta&lt;/a&gt;. We will go to the root of the evidences to see when he can be dated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;European  Account &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Since the records of ancient India give only the intervals between events but do not, like later records, date the events themselves, it is necessary in order to establish dates in Indian history to call on Greek historians. Indo-Greek relations developed as a result of the Indian campaign of Alexander the Great (327 BC). &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiNNRPrLZj_EflhmCmuQqp_D8FkiQ5zZBe6KhPxxfyw-ryr7aVQD_1JwWKYiOJVShzxugiKqip6YgkTuKyGS-pQpxMoGfQ48oHmnQ1o-lpFI055NVsowBQwNpHRt3RrGkQ72snvM_O9_-e/s1600-h/Asoka+Edict.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiNNRPrLZj_EflhmCmuQqp_D8FkiQ5zZBe6KhPxxfyw-ryr7aVQD_1JwWKYiOJVShzxugiKqip6YgkTuKyGS-pQpxMoGfQ48oHmnQ1o-lpFI055NVsowBQwNpHRt3RrGkQ72snvM_O9_-e/s320/Asoka+Edict.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369054802227458258" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 240px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;About 303 BC, the Indian Emperor Candragupta  came to a territorial agreement and entered into diplomatic relations with Seleukos Nikator, Alexander's former general who ruled over Babylonia. Through the reports of the Greek ambassador Megasthenes, who was ambassador to the imperial court of palimbothra  , Candragupta ( Sandrokottos ) became known to Greek historians, and through them we are able to date his accession to 321 BC. But this date is now disputed due to various reasons, Further Information on Chandgragupta and Alexander Date  follow article &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthanese meet Chandragupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;.  How Let us see&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Purana Account &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Puranas provide a chronology of the Magadha rulers from the time of the Mahabharata war, Somadhi (Marjari) was the ruler. He started a dynasty that included 22 kings that spread over 1006 years.They were followed by five rulers of the Pradyota dynasty that lasted over 138 years. Then for the next 360years was the 10 rulers of the Shishunag family. Kshemajit (who ruled from 1892 to 1852 B.C.) was the fourth in the Shishunag dynasty, and was a contemporary of Lord Buddha's father, Shuddhodana. It was during this period in which Buddha was born. It was during the reign of Bimbisara, the fifth Shishunaga ruler (1852-1814 B.C.), when Prince Siddhartha became the enlightened Buddha. Then it was during the reign of King Ajatashatru (1814-1787 B.C.) when Buddha left this world. Thus, he was born in 1887 B.C., renounced the world in 1858 B.C., and died in 1807 B.C. according to this analysis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihJIwF34w2Gv-uyWyZvqzh5o-lmExB7qBVw91evn7nSS9ZuzgXf9reNslwcEPu1Pd2uwK7_FufbY-cZ7ynUTfCX-VmdEK45Oat9UjrdTFObvcY6rnHbApEVAclMWacSyKm_NChLFlewIS-/s1600-h/India+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEihJIwF34w2Gv-uyWyZvqzh5o-lmExB7qBVw91evn7nSS9ZuzgXf9reNslwcEPu1Pd2uwK7_FufbY-cZ7ynUTfCX-VmdEK45Oat9UjrdTFObvcY6rnHbApEVAclMWacSyKm_NChLFlewIS-/s320/India+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369054795319055666" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 240px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Further evidence that helps corroborate this is provided in The Age of Buddha, Milinda and King Amtiyoka and Yuga Purana, by Pandit Kota Venkatachalam. He also describes that it is from the Puranas, especially the Bhagavat Purana and the Kaliyurajavruttanta, that need to be consulted for the description of the Magadha royal dynasties to determine the date of Lord Buddha. Buddha was the 23rd in the Ikshvaku lineage, and was a contemporary of Kshemajita, Bimbisara, and Ajatashatru, as described above. Buddha was 72 years old in 1814 B.C. when the coronation of Ajatashatru took place. Thus, the date of Buddha's birth must have been near 1887 B.C., and his death in 1807 B.C. if he lived for 80 years&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Professor K. Srinivasaraghavan also relates in his book, Chronology of Ancient Bharat , that the time of Buddha should be about 1259 years after the Mahabharata war, which should make it around 1880 B.C. if the war was in 3138 B.C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Astronomical Account &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
A search was made from 1900 BCE to 400 BCE for the sequence of events: winter solstice, lunar eclipse, solar eclipse, followed by Vaisakha poornima, the full moon day of Buddha nirvana. It is found that there are only 14 dates possible for this sequence of events to occur:1807 BCE, 1694 BCE, 1659 BCE, 1510 BCE, 1250 BCE, 1192 BCE, 1138 BCE, 1119 BCE, 1062 BCE, 1007 BCE, 765 BCE, 690 BCE and 560 BCE. If a time limit of about three months (the time that Buddha spends in sravasti before attaining his nirvana) is imposed, then the time intervalbetween winter solstice and vaisakha  poornima  must be less than 90 days and that vaisakha  poornima  should occur before the vernal equinox, as winter solstice occurred after his arrival at sravasti. With this restriction, most of the dates do not qualify, leaving only two dates 1807 BCE and 1510 BCE as possible dates. It is interesting to note that the ‘traditionally’ accepted dates, 544 BCE, or 483 BCE, or any of the recently revised dates do not fit the picture. One additional piece of astronomical information is needed to fix  the date.&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEieuhBid12_p-r4q-msRWW-uOxlOCqh_F5gT38Km4tFTnDcwNsuEKDr2jIJn72ZzRMbakUatwBHx-yNkbg19A4VJtZHvWQAG76x1JG58Eb5MBci943tk89yLVR0gv_tQWVewaT-z_zSJ6ma/s1600-h/Burma+Mandalay+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEieuhBid12_p-r4q-msRWW-uOxlOCqh_F5gT38Km4tFTnDcwNsuEKDr2jIJn72ZzRMbakUatwBHx-yNkbg19A4VJtZHvWQAG76x1JG58Eb5MBci943tk89yLVR0gv_tQWVewaT-z_zSJ6ma/s320/Burma+Mandalay+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369049580780778434" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 216px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Samyutta Nikaya , Part I, sugatta Vagga, Book II, Chapter I, Devaputtasa yuttam,suttas contain ten units in all, two of them to relate to kassapa. The others are devaputtas who visit Buddha. Sengupta identifies kassapa with prajapati  and hence with winter solstice. He regards the other deities as adityas The first devaputta to visit is  to be taken as the lord of the month of the lunar eclipse. We take a hint from a listing of the sons of aditi in taittirya aranyaka  dhata aryaman. If we assume as Sengupta  did, kassapa as dhataa or prajapati, his visit would indicate the arrival of winter solstice. Aryaman would be the first ‘devaputta’ to visit as the deity of the month, i.e., the presiding deity of the nakshatra  of the full moon, where the lunar eclipse occurs. In 1510 BCE  the lunar eclipse occurs at uttaraphalguni, whose deity is bhaga. In 1807 BCE, the lunar eclipse occurs at purvaphalguni , with aryaman as the deity. So the year is  1807 BCE&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMPjGO2yn6iK_jtF6l-jqiu44ZagR6gqsfdawIhEvRL2cgNz1RI-31oWBIAuAugKpggHQO_Dg7nSXW7WOnBVUity6MdzXcpTGTQMydx_vHJ6uoHFicoOIgEVOx8ucHbK0QZeEAhlhlDCz-/s1600-h/Iran+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgMPjGO2yn6iK_jtF6l-jqiu44ZagR6gqsfdawIhEvRL2cgNz1RI-31oWBIAuAugKpggHQO_Dg7nSXW7WOnBVUity6MdzXcpTGTQMydx_vHJ6uoHFicoOIgEVOx8ucHbK0QZeEAhlhlDCz-/s320/Iran+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369048979018938066" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 159px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 225px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Furthermore, astronomical calculations by astronomer Swami Sakhyananda indicates that the time of the Buddha was in the Kruttika period, between 2621-1661 B.C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Pali and Ceylon Chronicles &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mahavamsa and Dipavamsa , give the  traditional figure of 218 years between the death of the Buddha and the conversion of Asoka  is best taken as conventional. It amounts to the claim that between the death of the Buddha and the conversion of Asoka, there intervened &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A first major event occuring after  100 years, this being the standard conventional interval of  prediction in the later Buddhist literature&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A second major event, occurring  after another 100 years, this event being the rise of the ruler  patron, or the coronation of Asoka.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A third event, occurring after a  further 18 years. We may note that according to his own  inscriptions, it was in the 18th year of his reign that Asoka was  persuaded to accept Buddhism. &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhERT7-I8CeInfBxOcoyV-iLGXFsAMv_ZUr56Ehv3iwHPxfc0aoijt2MkPlA1kWFxUSxfA22D2nd5hdNxa7udN7ZoML9FS50cXzpoHcPRx5MzzaBPBwkWzpIXiy-17zc3hh01FhCxshgzQm/s1600-h/Lanka+Reclining+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhERT7-I8CeInfBxOcoyV-iLGXFsAMv_ZUr56Ehv3iwHPxfc0aoijt2MkPlA1kWFxUSxfA22D2nd5hdNxa7udN7ZoML9FS50cXzpoHcPRx5MzzaBPBwkWzpIXiy-17zc3hh01FhCxshgzQm/s320/Lanka+Reclining+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369048962446313458" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 236px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
The alternative interval of 256 years,  is based on counting backward from a later date in Asoka's reign, namely, the year of his abdication to pursue a life of virtue. This is the information given by the chronicles , the western scholars have taken the difference in years between ashoka ,  buddha and Megasthanese – Chandragupta meeting to date Buddha.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Ceylonese Pali traditions leave out the kings mentioned RockEdicts from  list of Asoka’s kingdoms, whereas Rock Edict XIII includes them. In fact, as many scholars have noted, the character of Asoka from Ceylonese and other traditions is precisely (as RK Mukherjee has said) what does not appear in the principal edicts.  Rock Edict XIII, the famous Kalinga edict, is identified as Asoka’s. It was, however, Samudragupta’s (Samudragupta was a great conqueror and a devout admirer of Asoka. He imitated Asoka in many ways and also took the name Asokaditya. In his later life, he became a sanyasi).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Tibet Account&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The Kalachakra tantra puts the life of Sakyamuni Buddha in the 9th. Century BCE  William Jones, on the basis of  Tibetan records infers that Buddha lived in the 11th century B.C. A number of Tibetan documents place Buddha at 2100 BC.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 9pt;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnqKkyvnCmZatZgMQIp9xBC9k2YWTYIWZTmuGoUkd4QE8cY6OjgvR8dIz8UubMEJbjH01fe7IsKAof38Xkv5ni6ezXvzq3n6wHxKtETpPjOHOTtY6111lYngjkajOsYc3XK5a3aDU-VhoJ/s1600-h/Golden+Buddha+Tibet.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnqKkyvnCmZatZgMQIp9xBC9k2YWTYIWZTmuGoUkd4QE8cY6OjgvR8dIz8UubMEJbjH01fe7IsKAof38Xkv5ni6ezXvzq3n6wHxKtETpPjOHOTtY6111lYngjkajOsYc3XK5a3aDU-VhoJ/s320/Golden+Buddha+Tibet.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369048981171680466" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 178px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;China Account&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;
&lt;span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 9pt;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;
Fa-hsien was in India and at Patliputra c. 410 AD. He mentions a number of kings, but makes not even a fleeting reference to the Gupta, even though according to European scholars he came during the height of their reign.  Fa-Hien puts Buddha’s Nirvana at 1050 B.C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Qin Shi Huang, who is said to have suppressed Buddhism, in the same way that he suppressed all other Chinese philosophy. His reign lasted from 246 BCE to 221 BCE. Han Wei, a noted researcher from the Shaanxi Provincial Institute of Archaeology, found evidence in the Historical Records, which were written in 104 BC. Silk Road archaeologist WANG Jianxin said Han's research sounded "reasonable" .&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjcVhlEx47oDjaAm_-nsFbYE3Wx_NwXiPdwRd0zggJZMYG4VjMcqbGx9qlFlB9Fnhyphenhyphen4H67VOEQ50UyZnHeuKDxyjnuMl-QkuH-SqakpiYlffQ2iq0np4mXR9JZB-I5oaALgooE0R7GgnBho/s1600-h/China+Leshan+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjcVhlEx47oDjaAm_-nsFbYE3Wx_NwXiPdwRd0zggJZMYG4VjMcqbGx9qlFlB9Fnhyphenhyphen4H67VOEQ50UyZnHeuKDxyjnuMl-QkuH-SqakpiYlffQ2iq0np4mXR9JZB-I5oaALgooE0R7GgnBho/s320/China+Leshan+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369049572767335554" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 240px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Weilüe reports a tradition  that an envoy of the Yuezhi king who gave oral teachings on Buddhist sutras to a student in 2 BCE&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Greek Accounts &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Seven Sages of Greece (Dated 620-550 B.C ) surprisingly give the Buddhist Teachings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thyagaraja Aiyer in his book "Indian Architecture" observes," Here lies Indian Sramanacharya from Bodh Gaya, a Buddhist monk taken to Greece by his Greek pupils and the tomb marks his death about 1000 B.C." If the Buddhist monk went to Greece in 1000 B.C., then the Buddha must have lived at least a few centuries earlier.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Somayajulu places Chandragupta Maurya in the 14th century B.C. This puts the Buddha three centuries earlier, i.e., in the 17th century B.C.&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLxikf7k10Z6fA-RmYqM9I7ynuUwmskYfbHV7h4BH-ic0KApfhCu-Dov6r6-wLvKZZEBft9zVkrbFYVzE9XxYUDm8Dgbbmn_8QQ6eAvSq-DxXS6vk8pmsub88rZVvNFwR9TTilUHkCC8E8/s1600-h/Afghan+Bamiyan+Reclining+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhLxikf7k10Z6fA-RmYqM9I7ynuUwmskYfbHV7h4BH-ic0KApfhCu-Dov6r6-wLvKZZEBft9zVkrbFYVzE9XxYUDm8Dgbbmn_8QQ6eAvSq-DxXS6vk8pmsub88rZVvNFwR9TTilUHkCC8E8/s320/Afghan+Bamiyan+Reclining+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369049589086911394" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 213px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Long before the word 'missionary' came to be synonymous with Christianity" Buddhist monks ('dharma-bhanakas') were traipsing across Asia. Travelling the Silk and Spice Routes they spread their doctrines all the way from Khotan in central Asia to Antioch and Alexandria in the west. One such visit is documented in 20 BC in Athens. A Buddhist philosopher, Zarmarus, part of an embassy from India, made a doctrinal point by setting himself alight. His tomb became a tourist attraction and is mentioned by several historians.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems the original Therapeutae were sent on an Indian embassy to Pharaoh Ptolemy II in 250 BC. The word 'Therapeutae' is itself of Buddhist origin, being a Hellenization of the Pali 'Thera-putta' (literally 'son of the elder.') Philo Judaeus, a 1st century AD contemporary of Josephus, described the Therapeutae in his tract 'De Vita Contemplativa'. It appears they were a religious brotherhood without precedent in the Jewish world. Reclusive ascetics, devoted to poverty, celibacy, good deeds and compassion, they were just like Buddhist monks in fact. From the Therapeutae it is quite possible a Buddhist influence spread to both the Essenes (a similar monkish order in Palestine).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gnosticism  is Influenced by Buddhism , which was a religion of quite a different order to earlier 'pagan' cults. It was a scriptural religion, making a strong appeal to the emotions. It offered a moral code – and hope. The Gnostic idea of liberating the soul from entrapment in matter is not dissimilar to the teachings embodied in the "4 Noble Truths" of the Buddha.&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhccXukGn-M4WvHn8Wxth60RknGzzicwEUpQIrBAn1wbFD5TjCKr7HDgH1Dl8rx1_K46q6bx9fZQnw3VjsYmpnGQnTj1uwXGpWm78q_moVK-L0OTlQY4vnrtSwXu5R4yrdcfhpBslgnuzVv/s1600-h/Japan+Kamakura++Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhccXukGn-M4WvHn8Wxth60RknGzzicwEUpQIrBAn1wbFD5TjCKr7HDgH1Dl8rx1_K46q6bx9fZQnw3VjsYmpnGQnTj1uwXGpWm78q_moVK-L0OTlQY4vnrtSwXu5R4yrdcfhpBslgnuzVv/s320/Japan+Kamakura++Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369048968345883090" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 213px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;The Greek details presented above are also sometimes dated before Alexander, so the argument that     Buddhism came to Greece only after Alexander invasion does not hold water.  Greek and some parts of then  India like Bactria were part of Persian empire of Darius, so the exchange of ideas is not confined to Alexander era.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Korea Account &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hwanin or Divine Regent is a figure in Korean mythology.  Hwanin  is an alias of Indra.  Hwanin is the name on Buddhism of Indra, this name is widely used in east Asia. We have evidences that Hwanin being used in 3rd Century BC in Korea. &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;South East Asia Traditions &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Japan, Thailand, , Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia follow the Ceylon (Sri Lanka) date.&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicGGJ5OXZcHXisfQkxhR5uy3OE0GE1mdYsOSgKz94gYdrL1KCkakxYwiP6oRLYc4cc3l-9-1L3R57g5oPNb3gfRMSCvf3v8VVvlWyw1gE13M03BPZudLzkK_rRtYjlQQrI5mLDyHQgGZ_w/s1600-h/Thai+Buddha.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEicGGJ5OXZcHXisfQkxhR5uy3OE0GE1mdYsOSgKz94gYdrL1KCkakxYwiP6oRLYc4cc3l-9-1L3R57g5oPNb3gfRMSCvf3v8VVvlWyw1gE13M03BPZudLzkK_rRtYjlQQrI5mLDyHQgGZ_w/s320/Thai+Buddha.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5369048953112527554" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 230px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Christian Account &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Apart from similarities between buddha and Jesus Christ, Most Important account has been the Barlaam and Josaphat story, which is the Christianized version of  Buddha  Story.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Max Muller stated that missionaries also were sent more than thirty years prior to Ashoka's reign&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Philo noted the presence of Buddhists in Alexandria, Egypt.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Conclusion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The above accounts say that Buddha can be earlier than the said dates of 560BC  and Western and Indology Scholars have not even explained the contradictions in their own calculations.  The fundamental sheet Anchor theory (&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Megasthanese -Chandragupta Meeting)&lt;/a&gt; is itself not established. The Indian literary accounts are being dismissed summarily. And Western scholars  themselves dont provide any evidence to backup their account. Since Chandragupta Maurya date by Western and Indology scholars is disputable, Buddha Date is also susequently disputable. Regarding what is being said in Ashoka Edicts and what are the claims made on the edicts , we will see in another article. For now Buddha date is nowhere settled. Date by Indian Literary sources and Astronomical calculations  is  1807 BC.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Source &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul style="font-style: italic;"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The Date of the Buddha by E Bruce  Brooks &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Re-establishing the Date of Lord  Buddha by Stephen Knapp&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A short note on the date of Buddha  nirvana  using planetarium software B. N. Narahari Achar&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Indian Architecture by  Thyagaraja Aiyer&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Cooking the Buddhist Books by  Charles S. Prebish&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-buddha-image.html"&gt;Buddha Image&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2014/03/is-gautama-buddha-avatar-of-vishnu.html#.UxMAy85qO4o" target="_blank"&gt;Is Gautama Buddha Avatar of Vishnu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/07/is-tirupati-balaji-temple-buddist.html"&gt;Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddhist Temple&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html"&gt;Did Megasthenes Meet Chandragupta Maurya&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-kanishka-era.html"&gt;Kanishka Era&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html"&gt;Date of Kalidasa - Gupta Myth&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/04/dating-vatsyayanas-kamasutra.html"&gt;Date of Vatsyayana Kamasutra&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiNNRPrLZj_EflhmCmuQqp_D8FkiQ5zZBe6KhPxxfyw-ryr7aVQD_1JwWKYiOJVShzxugiKqip6YgkTuKyGS-pQpxMoGfQ48oHmnQ1o-lpFI055NVsowBQwNpHRt3RrGkQ72snvM_O9_-e/s72-c/Asoka+Edict.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>13</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-251097217413391130</guid><pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:31:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2014-03-08T11:31:21.466+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Alexander</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Ashoka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Buddha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Chankya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Christian</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Greek</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Gupta</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">karnataka</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Magadha</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Mahabharata</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Maurya</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Megasthenes</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Roman</category><title>Did Megasthenes Meet Chandragupta Maurya</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
I got a comment on the post &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History&lt;/a&gt; by one GD Prasad , who claimed that to see the correct Indian History refer to Purana date, which I dismissed it as there was nothing to backup the comment. But curiously he said that the Chandragupta at the time of Alexander was of Gupta Dynasty  not Maurya Dynasty. Now that worm has entered my head, After Googling much I am writing this article. Since this is the date that determines the entire Indian history is based on, we have to identify correctly who was  the Chandragupta at the time of Alexander who met  Megasthenes. Chandragupta Maurya is Indian King who renounced his empire and became jain monk , he went  to Shravanbelagola in karnataka  and died as simple man.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Megasthenes story&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Megasthenes was the Greek ambassador sent by Seleucus Nicator in c. 302 B.C. to the court of the Indian king whom he and the Greek called "Sandrocottus". He was stationed in "Palimbothra", the capital city of the kingdom. It is not clear how many years Megasthenes stayed in India, but he did write an account of his stay, titled Indika. The manuscript Indika is lost, and there is no copy of it available. &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimhnEH6oC-WZxlHzEyY4zvCYcL0i5LAV8jRiQW-Pc6JpQvESXw14hwA1A3Z8gDlq58YgjRgBYAnomYPNe8QGJlBpY0j6n_kBsYbc59i80QFEQCazaChTp_OuwfCiGSTQUwzGGNYTakWLM9/s1600-h/Megasthenes.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimhnEH6oC-WZxlHzEyY4zvCYcL0i5LAV8jRiQW-Pc6JpQvESXw14hwA1A3Z8gDlq58YgjRgBYAnomYPNe8QGJlBpY0j6n_kBsYbc59i80QFEQCazaChTp_OuwfCiGSTQUwzGGNYTakWLM9/s320/Megasthenes.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356809852989107186" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 110px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 95px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;However, during the time it was available, many other Greek writers quoted passages from it in their own works. These quotations were meticulously collected by Dr. Schwanbeck in the nineteenth century, and this compilation is also available to us in English (J.M. McCrindle: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian).  When European Indologists were groping to date Indian history during the nineteenth century (after having arbitrarily rejected the various Puranas), the Megasthenes account came in very useful.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;How Chandragupta Maurya was Equated with Sandrocottus – Sheet Anchor Chronology.&lt;/span&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
Sir William Jones could not believe in the antiquity of the Bharata War according to Indian accounts because of his Christian faith which told him that Creation took place at 9-00 a. m, on 23rd October 4004 BC.  He tried to search the Greek and Roman accounts. These accounts supplied some information about India of the time of the Macedonian king Alexander. It mentioned seven names of three successive Indian kings. Attributing one name each for the three kings the names are Xandrammes, Sandrocottus and Sandrocyptus. Xandrammes of the previous dynasty was murdered by Sandrokottas whose son was Sandrocyptus. &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwtQvxEHmY8zx-9WI47dkmw7LkUnIJRDJWP7Ird6Q0_45M860izbAK0TY28_g97SU0m5igtkt73Jo7YdOgrsdCjLyP5vpwKH_4a3g95GJP2oOVLFY64ZIHrok4_E6pcx8R6JdAdRmd8OLp/s1600-h/ChandraGupta+Maurya.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwtQvxEHmY8zx-9WI47dkmw7LkUnIJRDJWP7Ird6Q0_45M860izbAK0TY28_g97SU0m5igtkt73Jo7YdOgrsdCjLyP5vpwKH_4a3g95GJP2oOVLFY64ZIHrok4_E6pcx8R6JdAdRmd8OLp/s320/ChandraGupta+Maurya.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356809865850803874" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 260px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jones picked up one of these three names, namely, Sandrokottas and found that it had a sort of phonetic similarity with the name Chandragupta of the Puranic accounts. According to the Greek accounts, Palibothra was the capital of Sandrokottas. Jones took Palibothra as a Greek pronunciation of Pataliputra, the Indian city and capital of Chandragupta. He, then, declared that Sandrokottas of the Greek accounts is Chandragupta Maurya of the Puranas. Jones died  just a year after this declaration and possibly before his death, could not know that Puranas have another Chandragupta of the Gupta dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Later scholars took this identity of Sandrokottas with Chandragupta Maurya as proved and carried on further research. James Princep, an employee of the East India Company, deciphered the Brahmi script and was able to read the inscriptions of Piyadassana. Turnour, another employee of the Company in Ceylon, found in the Ceylonese chronicles that Piyadassana was used as a surname of Asoka, the grandson of Chandragupta Maurya. The inscription bearing the name of &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/05/who-is-diodotus-greek-myth.html"&gt;Asoka&lt;/a&gt; was not found till the time of Turnour. In 1838, Princep found five names of the Yona kings in Asoka's inscriptions and identified them as the five Greek kings near Greece belonging to third century BC who were contemporary to Asoka.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNxo3JRjEinfeFDqv39wFYHrLGDND-7hPtSay-X4qupclU3IimYs_Xb_3aVXknfiSBUe60SNWmwQAmNB3lJeIBClciMBxkTShXRM13sHFrZvkvrPzhRuV9Ruip46oSkm46lYrNHNxgyZch/s1600-h/Alexander.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNxo3JRjEinfeFDqv39wFYHrLGDND-7hPtSay-X4qupclU3IimYs_Xb_3aVXknfiSBUe60SNWmwQAmNB3lJeIBClciMBxkTShXRM13sHFrZvkvrPzhRuV9Ruip46oSkm46lYrNHNxgyZch/s320/Alexander.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356810186618206706" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 287px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 268px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In the Greek accounts, Sandrokottas of Palimbothra is described as a contemporary of Alexander of Macedonia who invaded India during 327 BC to 323 BC This decides the approximate date of Chandragupta Maurya. Princep's research decides the approximate date of Asoka, the grandson of Chandragupta Maurya as in 3rd century BC Both these dates were adjusted with the reign periods of the three successive Magadha kings, Chandragupta, Bindusara and Asoka of the Maurya dynasty given in the Puranas. Thus, the date c. 320 BC was fixed as the date of coronation of Chandragupta Maurya. It is on this date that every other date of Indian history has been constructed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/04/myth-of-aryan-invasion-of-india.html"&gt;Max Mueller&lt;/a&gt;, in 1859 AD, finalized this identity of Sandrokottas with Chandragupta Maurya and declared c. 320 BC, the date of coronation of Chandragupta Maurya as the Sheet Anchor of Indian history. M. Troyer did not agree with this conclusion and noted this fact in the introduction to his translation of Rajatarangani of Kalhana. He even communicated his views to Prof. Max Mueller in a letter but did not receive a reply from him.&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIxlFgwG0f7nKWlIbwsxK7UoYSR1qOKOZPlCXvtFEPXFAU6-6MAK95XU4d1pDAnJDuTLwCqwPaCP8evaNZhiyx2vXuQEoWlZONYnXn62i7sXVXeOf9NCXoY4SPJFNqPzCtkpShiTxKTE8V/s1600-h/Chanakya.gif" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiIxlFgwG0f7nKWlIbwsxK7UoYSR1qOKOZPlCXvtFEPXFAU6-6MAK95XU4d1pDAnJDuTLwCqwPaCP8evaNZhiyx2vXuQEoWlZONYnXn62i7sXVXeOf9NCXoY4SPJFNqPzCtkpShiTxKTE8V/s320/Chanakya.gif" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356810192006787506" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 217px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Smith's Chronology:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Historian V. A. Smith took the chronological identity asserted by the predecessors in this historical hierarchy as the basis for further calculation of the exact dates of the different dynasties that ruled over Magadha after and before the Mauryas. He took the aid of numismatics in addition to epigraphy. He could not however get over, as if by compunction, to follow the Puranas in the enumeration of the kings and their dynasties. But he reduced their reign periods. The total reduction done by these British scholars, from Jones to Smith, comes to 1300 years according to some Indian chronologists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Indian View  Chandragupta Maurya did not meet Megasthenes&lt;/span&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
Megasthenes has nowhere mentioned  the word Maurya   &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
He makes  absolutely no mention of  a person called either Chanakya or Kautilya. &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
Indian historians have recorded  two Chandr aguptas, one of the Maurya dynasty and another of the  Gupta dynasty. Both of them had a grandson called Ashoka. While the  Mauryan Chandragupta' s son was called Bimbasara (sometimes  Bindusara), The  Gupta Chandragupta had a son called Samudragupta.  Interestingly Megasthenese has written that Sandrakuttos had a son  called Samdrakyptos, which is phonetically nearer to Samudragupta  and  not Bindusara.&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEieLrrJA_e_uEnW2zAAuFuW6_Svd0vXHI5U1xdhc8D6jMUSAO_YMlykKeXvj-t6ZWaTL-bbVmCwWiVsP5GpGQ605wohTTwWAOTEEhaH6ZTM9tD_PqpY3BIhrNu71GYE9aTxadH0a54U7WCv/s1600-h/Coins+of+Chandragupta+I.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEieLrrJA_e_uEnW2zAAuFuW6_Svd0vXHI5U1xdhc8D6jMUSAO_YMlykKeXvj-t6ZWaTL-bbVmCwWiVsP5GpGQ605wohTTwWAOTEEhaH6ZTM9tD_PqpY3BIhrNu71GYE9aTxadH0a54U7WCv/s320/Coins+of+Chandragupta+I.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356809858285143586" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 110px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 230px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
The king lists given by the  Puranas say that 1500 years elapsed  from the time of the  Kurukshetra war to the beginning of the Nanda dynasty's rule. If one  assumes the Nandas' period to be 5th century BCE, this would put the  Bharatha war around 1900 BCE whereas the traditional view has always  been 3100 BCE. This gives a difference of 1200 years which go  unaccounted. &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
Megasthanese himself says 137  generations of kings have come and gone between Krishna and  Sandrakuttos, whereas the puranas give around 83 generations only  between Jarasandha's son (Krishna's contemporary) to the Nandas of  the Magadha kingdom.. Assuming an average of 20 to 25 years per  generation, the difference of 54 generations would account for the  gap of the 1200 years till the time of Alexander.   &lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;ol start="6"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
The Chinese have always maintained  that Buddhism came to China from  India around 1100 -1200 BCE,  whereas the western historians tend to put  Buddha at 500 BCE&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
According to the Greek accounts,  Xandrammes was deposed by Sandrokottas and Sandrocyptus was the son  of Sandrokottas. In the case of Chandragupta Maurya, he had opposed  Dhanananda of the Nanda dynasty and the name of his son was  Bindusara. Both these names, Dhanananda and Bindusara, have no  phonetic similarity with the names Xandrammes and Sandrocyptus of  the Greek accounts.   &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi2YPBNENwYHZXsqNu3L6L-6orhpNfr07AxutRBHBOlC5odsZrEhjBy3BvgS6C77XGsWfMYN676vpQeC7pQvUFBVnnYRqCA98IC_zSOXdp81FRPvXEI5JWKqH6OTuo-_-xCL6yZ15ty91Uv/s1600-h/GUPTA+PILLAR.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi2YPBNENwYHZXsqNu3L6L-6orhpNfr07AxutRBHBOlC5odsZrEhjBy3BvgS6C77XGsWfMYN676vpQeC7pQvUFBVnnYRqCA98IC_zSOXdp81FRPvXEI5JWKqH6OTuo-_-xCL6yZ15ty91Uv/s320/GUPTA+PILLAR.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356809857451199218" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 240px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;ol start="8"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
Asoka's empire was bigger than  that of Chandragupta Maurya and he had sent missionaries to the  so-called Yavana countries. But both of them are not mentioned.  Colebrook has pointed out that the Greek writers did not say  anything about the Buddhist Bhikkus though that was the flourishing  religion of that time with the royal patronage of Asoka.  Roychaudhari also wonders why the Greek accounts are silent on  Buddhism.   &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;ol start="9"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
The empire of Chandragupta was  known as Magadha empire. It had a long history even at the time of  Chandragupta Maurya. In Indian literature, this powerful empire is  amply described by this name but it is absent in the Greek accounts.  It is difficult to understand as to why Megasthanese did not use  this name and instead used the word Prassi which has no equivalent  or counterpart in Indian accounts. &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;ol start="10"&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
To decide as to whether  Pataliputra was the capital of the Mauryas, Puranas is the only  source. Puranas inform us that all the eight dynasties that ruled  Magadha after the Mahabharata War had Girivraja as their capital.  Mauryas are listed as one of the eight dynasties. The name  Pataliputra is not even hinted at, anywhere in the Puranas.   &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;No Concrete Proofs:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Western scholars and their followers in India have been all along insisting on concrete evidence for ancient Indian chronology but they themselves have not been able as yet, to furnish any such evidence for the sheet anchor.  &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjSPHnwjXZNXm4rv-UqsBnkGobncMYvln56F5olGi9Y0V8IlJHkDsol9z52ifF-Lqh9wLvebsfBnGYAsqWoFrXebgpue8OZtZuGq_LSyfl__K9hmFu3I9Aa5c1nYTm1qIuDAAOHJd3NZyV/s1600-h/samudra+Gupta+Coin.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjSPHnwjXZNXm4rv-UqsBnkGobncMYvln56F5olGi9Y0V8IlJHkDsol9z52ifF-Lqh9wLvebsfBnGYAsqWoFrXebgpue8OZtZuGq_LSyfl__K9hmFu3I9Aa5c1nYTm1qIuDAAOHJd3NZyV/s320/samudra+Gupta+Coin.jpg" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5356809850423217666" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 214px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
All the evidence supplied so far is conjectural. No numismatic or inscriptional proof is available for the date. Same was the condition at the time of V. A. Smith. He had written, "Unfortunately, no monuments have been discovered which can be referred with certainty to tile period of Chandragupta Maurya and the archaeologist is unable to bring any tangible evidence afforded by excavations."&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt; &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Pandit Bhagavaddatta &lt;/span&gt;seems to have studied the fragments of Megasthenes in more detail than those who decided the identity. On the basis of Megasthenes's statements, he has arrived at the following conclusions. "Yamuna was flowing through Palibotha i.e., Paribhadra, the capital of the Prassi kingdom. Palibothra was 200 miles from Prayaga on way to Mathura. The kshatriyas there were known as Prabhadrakas or Paribhadrakas. Their king was Chandraketu. The capital Paribhadra was near to Sindhu-Pulinda which is in Madhya Desha and is today termed as Kali-Sindha. The Karusha Sarovara was between Sindhu-Pulinda and Prayaga." He further states, "Pataliputra cannot be written as Palibothra in Greek because 'P', in Patali is written in Greek as English 'P', only ; then why 'P', in Putra is changed to 'B', in Greek? There is no instance where Sanskrit 'P', is changed to Greek 'B'." Putra cannot be Bothra. &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Conclusion   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Based on all these, I would say the Sandrakuttos of Megasthanese was not Chandragupta  Maurya. As far as Chandragupta of Gupta Dynasty meeting Megasthenes , we will see in another Article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Source   &lt;/span&gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Defalsification of Indian history By Dr. Subramanian Swamy&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; Bharateeya Historiography by Sriram Sathe&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-bottom: 0in;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;Related Posts&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2009/08/date-of-buddha.html#.Uxqx0c5qO4o" target="_blank"&gt;Date of Buddha&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/origin-of-buddha-image.html"&gt;Buddha Image&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2014/03/is-gautama-buddha-avatar-of-vishnu.html#.UxMAy85qO4o" target="_blank"&gt;Is Gautama Buddha Avatar of Vishnu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/07/is-tirupati-balaji-temple-buddist.html"&gt;Is Tirupati Balaji Temple a Buddhist Temple&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-kanishka-era.html"&gt;Kanishka Era&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/03/dating-indian-history-towards-common.html"&gt;Dating Indian History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2012/01/are-maukharis-and-malwa-guptas.html"&gt;Are Maukharis and Malwa Guptas Feudatories of Imperial Guptas?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/date-of-kalidasa-gupta-myth.html"&gt;Date of Kalidasa - Gupta Myth&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2011/04/dating-vatsyayanas-kamasutra.html"&gt;Date of Vatsyayana Kamasutra&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2025/10/myth-versus-reality-topics-india-indus.html#.UxqxOs5qO4o" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;span style="color: #9999ff;"&gt;Topics&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-megasthenes-meet-chandragupta.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEimhnEH6oC-WZxlHzEyY4zvCYcL0i5LAV8jRiQW-Pc6JpQvESXw14hwA1A3Z8gDlq58YgjRgBYAnomYPNe8QGJlBpY0j6n_kBsYbc59i80QFEQCazaChTp_OuwfCiGSTQUwzGGNYTakWLM9/s72-c/Megasthenes.jpg" width="72"/><thr:total>24</thr:total></item><item><guid isPermaLink="false">tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2559723930575740149.post-5269711969793846934</guid><pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:35:00 +0000</pubDate><atom:updated>2018-02-23T19:31:06.715+05:30</atom:updated><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Adisankara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">kanchi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Kumbakonam</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Marathi</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">mutt</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Shankara</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">Sringeri</category><category domain="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#">tamil</category><title>Myths of Kanchi  kamakoti Peetam</title><description>&lt;div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"&gt;
If you have ever gone to to websites of &lt;a href="http://www.kamakoti.org/peeth/aboutpeetham.html"&gt;Kanchi Ko&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.kamakoti.org/peeth/aboutpeetham.html"&gt;ma&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.kamakoti.org/peeth/aboutpeetham.html"&gt;koti Peetam&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanchi_Kamakoti_Peetham"&gt;Wiki&lt;/a&gt;  or websites related to Kanchi Mutt you will come across the following claims and much more. We will see the following   claims.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: 130%; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Claims made&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Shankara established the Kanchi mutt&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kumbakonam mutt is branch of Kanchi mutt&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kanchi Mutt is 2500 years old&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Adi Shankara spent last days of his life in Kanchi mutt He is buried in the premises of the mutt&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kanchi mutt was established as the controlling centre of other mutts.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Suresvara was appointed as the successor to Shankara at Kanchi mutt.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kanchi mutt was shifted to Kumbakonam in 18th century AD due to opposition from the Local kings in Kanchi &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: 130%; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Is Kanchi Mutt 2500 years old?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
First we have to fix the date of &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-shankara.html"&gt;Adi Shankara&lt;/a&gt; to know the date of Kanchi mutt as it is claimed to have been established by him. Date of Shankara , We have already seen in another &lt;a href="http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2008/01/date-of-shankara.html"&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; about dating Shri Adi Shankara. His date is fixed to 8th century AD not 500BC as claimed by Kanchi Mutt. So the question of Kanchi Mutt being 2500 years old do not arise.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvxbu_s0rLJkB3D5C-KrWvvsha_HWQNCIL6JvazJg0k3klE6u1ywoVYTd3rl6mLqJYInsCCJm3yPH75pfNjWy8kT0iclaMFavit9BsO0kPym0ABNvLhkamp15kSO-ZxXmIHxd9Kvbxx7g-/s1600-h/Kanchi+Kamakoti+Peetam+Mutt.JPG" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5353560509502938482" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvxbu_s0rLJkB3D5C-KrWvvsha_HWQNCIL6JvazJg0k3klE6u1ywoVYTd3rl6mLqJYInsCCJm3yPH75pfNjWy8kT0iclaMFavit9BsO0kPym0ABNvLhkamp15kSO-ZxXmIHxd9Kvbxx7g-/s320/Kanchi+Kamakoti+Peetam+Mutt.JPG" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 240px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;No Tamil or Sanskrit literature before 19th century Speaks of Kanchi Mutt , which shows there was no mutt during that period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: 130%; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Did  Adi Shankara established Kanchi Mutt?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Every other Mutt or religious work mentioning Shankara have told there are only four mutts established by Shankara , independent of the other.  Each mutt was allotted  Upanishads to focus on&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Saraswati, Bharati and Puri  ------------&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"&gt;-Shringeri (South)&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Tirtha and Ashrama-----------------------Dwarka (West)&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Giri, Parvata and Sagara-----------------Jyotir (North)&lt;/span&gt; &lt;span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Vanam and Aranyam----------------------Govardhan (East) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Except Kanchi Mutt and its associates all the Other mutts say that Shankara died in Himalayas.&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXTM4GZOPkhO70oNwz3j0098vkMUa2bgme4jxb-_RkDsD4_JLJ3sRxBDrE9yBZahgjMWNa9VCjxraZKCUuAj5x-SDf3dH2JnYIzgazOe8oLygoDJzH3h75YDgMSTby0y5nthuqpYH0aIwt/s1600-h/Adi+Shankara.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5353560200390069874" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXTM4GZOPkhO70oNwz3j0098vkMUa2bgme4jxb-_RkDsD4_JLJ3sRxBDrE9yBZahgjMWNa9VCjxraZKCUuAj5x-SDf3dH2JnYIzgazOe8oLygoDJzH3h75YDgMSTby0y5nthuqpYH0aIwt/s320/Adi+Shankara.jpg" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 234px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt; His final days are said like this:  Setting off from the Jyotir Ashram (Badrinath) in the Himalayan he headed toward the nearby Mountainous region of Kedarnath, the place that was destined to be his final resting place. His four chief disciples accompanied him part of the way, but then Shankara insisted they go no further as the final part of his journey was to be completed alone.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kanchi Mutt Chronicles , claim that  Adi  Sankaracharya had spent the last days of his life in Kanchipuram where he  attained samadhi, and not in the Himalayas as is generally believed. A  mandapam named after the father of the school of advaita philosophy, seen  in the Kamakshi temple premises, is cited as his samadhi.  It was originally called  `Sankaracharya samadhi', but when it was pointed out there could not be a  samadhi inside a Devi temple, the mandapam was renamed `Sankaracharya  sannidhi' - sanctum, not a tomb.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj07bUJiUd_d7F8jGzeB0uZUAVNARUB6TFl54ANf4Hxmm6-G3hjJEoc4b5tp2QPkfu7nWqCr3OWHEL1onb8CfR0YGNfB4TX-LI0aomCzUJdzSME5ueRwqufGoXGiR9yL0mjOjGmeTBWtS56/s1600-h/Shringeri+Mutt.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5353560207061354178" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj07bUJiUd_d7F8jGzeB0uZUAVNARUB6TFl54ANf4Hxmm6-G3hjJEoc4b5tp2QPkfu7nWqCr3OWHEL1onb8CfR0YGNfB4TX-LI0aomCzUJdzSME5ueRwqufGoXGiR9yL0mjOjGmeTBWtS56/s320/Shringeri+Mutt.jpg" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 320px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 316px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;  So we can see that the Shankara cannot have come to kanchi in the final moments of his life  and  established the Kanchi mutt.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: 130%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Kumbakonam mutt is branch of Kanchi mutt&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
According to the Kanchi chronicles, the math in Kanchipuram had  to be shifted in the 18th century AD, in the face of opposition from local  kings and hence the shift to Kumbhakonam. (One does not know of any  Hindu-hating king near Kanchipuram from the 18th century.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
"Historians, however, hold that the Kumbhakonam math is a branch of the Sringeri math established in 1821 AD by the famous Maratha monarch of Tanjore,  Pratap Singh Tuljaji.  It is the date of the oldest inscription found in  the Kumbhakonam math building. The Inscription is in Kannada. The math refers itself as sarada math. The diety of Sringeri mutt. If the mutt has anything to do with kanchi, it should have been diety kamakshi , the goddess of kanchi not sarada.   Kumbakonam Mutt Independence Kumbhakonam math proclaimed independence  from Sringeri and established itself as the " Kamakoti peetham.". &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiylODCdF8OW_Kqc67LCn4DZS9RGY-rr5hWp57sISXcuPDfC5UgLmZ-QppV3-1MeDnuO3RkuQpF8ngcNks1RNj3-tWT_zGdzIXBFppnyNMHMdbVhxO9UzwET-S49Hn1eZtteZZeGizKK1OJ/s1600-h/Kumbakonam+Shankara+Mutt.gif" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5353560197082875618" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiylODCdF8OW_Kqc67LCn4DZS9RGY-rr5hWp57sISXcuPDfC5UgLmZ-QppV3-1MeDnuO3RkuQpF8ngcNks1RNj3-tWT_zGdzIXBFppnyNMHMdbVhxO9UzwET-S49Hn1eZtteZZeGizKK1OJ/s320/Kumbakonam+Shankara+Mutt.gif" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 175px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 200px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;In addition to denying the  historical truth of its origin as a branch of the Sringeri math, the story  propagated was that it was originally established by Adi Sankaracharya  himself at Kanchipuram, with control over the recognized four maths.  Worse, a wholly fictitious story that Adi Sankaracharya ascended a  sarvagna-pitha at Kanchi and attained samadhi at Kanchi is propagated as  "tradition." The real problem though was that in the course of this  campaign, someone with more enthusiasm than scholarship, "fixed" the date   of Adi Sankaracharya as 477 B.C. and wrote up a continuous list of gurus  of the math from 477 B.C. to the present! This guru parampara is filled  with names of sannyasis taken at random, with no thought to chronology.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;span style="font-size: 130%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt; Kanchi Mutt origin&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In 1839 AD, the head of the Kumbhakonam math applied for permission  to the English Collector to perform the kumbhabhishekam of the Kamakshi  temple in Kanchipuram. In 1842 AD, he was appointed sole trustee of the  Kamakshi temple by the English East India Company Government. This is well  documented because the original priests of the Kamakshi temple, who were thereby deprived of their rights, complained to whomever they could possibly complain to. Numerous petitions, counter petitions, letters, and other suchdocuments are available from this period.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus the Kanchi math as an institution dates from 1842 AD. The headquarters continued to be at Kumbhakonam but the sannyasi head would periodically visit Kanchipuram to assert his rights over the Kamakshi temple.This math originally had a limited following in the Tanjore and Kanchipuram areas, but soon embarked on a massive propaganda campaign that ensured it prominence. The Kumbhakonam math shifted to Kanchipuram in accordance with its new  story.   &lt;a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhT1JWGaCd-qi3Lph5Duh8ibBT48pWjq0FHfSfveMDnaPr7L3DZGeFrDk0Rg50O1lcISonZ6duMpYJ7lym5jLYbeLuIfGZ-a_X1cH08IlOvc0ULMPAUrQFhsRCL-azuIZT042iQRPIMX5dh/s1600-h/Kanchi+Kamakshi+temple.jpg" onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}"&gt;&lt;img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5353560188845845602" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhT1JWGaCd-qi3Lph5Duh8ibBT48pWjq0FHfSfveMDnaPr7L3DZGeFrDk0Rg50O1lcISonZ6duMpYJ7lym5jLYbeLuIfGZ-a_X1cH08IlOvc0ULMPAUrQFhsRCL-azuIZT042iQRPIMX5dh/s320/Kanchi+Kamakshi+temple.jpg" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 210px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Suresvara was appointed as the successor to Shankara at Kanchi mutt. The Kanchi chronicles explain that before his demise,  Shankaracharya established a fifth math at Kanchi which he intended to be a  controlling centre of all the other maths. Sri Sureswaracharya, Sankara's  prime disciple was placed in charge of it. Interestingly, the Sringeri  math also claims Sureswaracharya as their first pontiff. If Sankaracharya did not establish the Kanchi math at all,  where was the need to appoint a successor there?!! It is the Kanchi math  that "claims" Sureswara. The Sringeri math does not "claim" so. In fact, a  very old structure that is reputed to be Sureswara's samadhi is still  preserved outside the Sarada temple at Sringeri.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;span style="font-size: 130%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Conclusion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
We can see that the Mutt is anything but lies one after another.  Chandrasekharendra Saraswati, who lifted a math disintegrating in Kumbhakonam and  re-established it in Kanchipuram, according it a position of pre-eminence. But the chronicles are just out of this world. So many lies left, right and centre. Not surprising that the math has such scandalous history. The Mutt is known for More political connections then spirtual quests. To conclude Here is an institution&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;A mutt Not even 200 years old claiming as 2500 years old.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kanchi Mutt is a branch of kumbakonam mutt, which inturn is the branch of Sringeri Mutt. What kanchi mutt claims  is the other way around, brushing aside all the historical facts.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"&gt;Source&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Real History of Kanchi Mutt by Vidyasankar Sundaresan&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Truth about the Kumbhakonam Math,  Sri R. Krishnaswamy  Aiyar and Sri K. R. Venkatraman, Sri Ramakrishna Press, Madurai,1977.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Kanchi Kamakoti Math - a Myth - Sri Varanasi Raj Gopal Sarma,  Ganga Tunga Prakashan, Varanasi, 1987.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Illustrated Weekly of India, "The Weekly Cover Story" - K. P.   Sunil, September 13, 1987.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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</description><link>http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2009/06/myths-of-kanchi-kamakoti-peetam.html</link><author>noreply@blogger.com (Moda Sattva)</author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" height="72" url="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvxbu_s0rLJkB3D5C-KrWvvsha_HWQNCIL6JvazJg0k3klE6u1ywoVYTd3rl6mLqJYInsCCJm3yPH75pfNjWy8kT0iclaMFavit9BsO0kPym0ABNvLhkamp15kSO-ZxXmIHxd9Kvbxx7g-/s72-c/Kanchi+Kamakoti+Peetam+Mutt.JPG" width="72"/><thr:total>44</thr:total></item></channel></rss>