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Vicki Davis (00:00): Welcome back, remarkable educators. Today we're talking about helping lead our students to a brighter future. Every student, every stage, helping students grow up and make a difference.

Announcer (00:16): Ever wondered how remarkable teaching happens? Find out right now at Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis. Get insights from top educators, tech tips, and inspiration to elevate your teaching leadership.

Vicki Davis (00:30): Leadership. We want to help students grow to become adults full of purpose, happy, healthy, full of promise. Today we want to talk about leadership, but perhaps it isn't what you think.

Vicki Davis (00:42): First, we'll talk about a student who found a gap in what his school offered in chemistry. And then he created an app for his school to use that his district is looking to adopt. That is leadership, finding what needs to be done and doing it. But then we'll talk about the gaps between high school and college readiness and what the research says and about how to bridge that gap. Some teachers and students and administrators and parents will hear this.

Vicki Davis (01:11): And I hope you'll be inspired to step in and lead in your area to help the students at your school be ready to move from school into the world as successful adults. And then we have an interview I recorded with Raquel Martinez, who is the president of NASSP. And she will talk about leadership and how you can grow capability in others through what you talk about the most. Pat Williams, in his book, 21 Great Leaders, says.

Vicki Davis (01:40): People who don't understand how to serve do not understand how to lead. We want to lead our students to become the kind of people who see needs and meet them. And we want to be those servant leaders too. So let me tell you a story about Richard Car Gaum. He was still a senior in high school when World War II was declared, so he signed up. And in 1953, after two years serving in the Suez Canal Zone in Egypt.

Vicki Davis (02:10): He made the long, slow journey home to England. By train through Malta, Sicily, Naples, and along the way, he had to bathe in the sea, sleep outside, live on scraps of food and water from public taps. And because of the way he looked and the way he acted, he said he was made to feel unwelcome. It was on that journey that he learned that the greatest deprivation is not hunger or cold, it's the lack of human company. So as he traveled, he came upon a place called the Little House of Divine Providence. It was founded to care for the lonely and destitute. And it set him to thinking about how the poor, the old, and the unwanted were treated back in Britain. At a Billy Graham rally, Richard Cargom decided to dedicate his life to serving others. First he became a home helper to the elderly and used part of his own money To buy a house in East London. In 1955, he invited his first two residents to come and live with him. And that household became the Abbeyfield Society in 1956. And by 1963, it had grown to over a hundred homes across the UK. Now in 2026, the Society has over 400 houses in seven countries with more than 7,500 residents. What one man saw as a need And tried to meet has grown into an organization that earned him the Pride of Britain Lifetime Achievement Award in 2005.

Vicki Davis (03:39): I tell you this story because we want to inspire students to have initiative, to see a need and move towards it.

Vicki Davis (03:54): Richard Cargom was just a teenager when he started noticing people being left out. Our first guest today is 16. His name is Ky'lin Spears, and he didn't have to cross Europe to find a need. He found it in his own chemistry class in Maryland. His school didn't have the lab equipment. Assignments kept getting pushed back. The simulator they did have was old and clunky, and most of us at sixteen, we would have shrugged shoulders and waited for the adults to sort it out or Maybe we just would have complained. Well, Ky'lin had been teaching himself to code off YouTube since he was nine. So he built the tool his school didn't have. It's free. It runs in any browser. It collects no student data. And his district is looking at adopting it. That's leadership, seeing what needs to be done and doing it. Now one quick note before we listen. Ky'lin is 16, so we have his parents permission to share his story. You'll hear his voice if you're watching on video, but you won't see his face.

Vicki Davis (04:52): And that's on purpose. And that's just fine with us. Let's listen.

Announcer (04:58): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (05:02): Today we have different interview. We're talking with Ky'lin Spears, a 16 year old student from Suitland, Maryland, who built a professional chemistry simulation platform called Atomency he built it from scratch because his school did not have lab equipment. Atomency is free, works in any browser, requires no login, collects no student data, and works offline. And now his school district is looking at adopting it. Now we're working to feature student voices, but when we do this, because of the wide distribution of Cool Cat Teacher Talk and 10 Minute Teacher, If you're watching on video, you will not see Ky'lin's image and that is just fine with us. But I did want to let you know I think it's a great representation of the sorts of things that students are doing these days. So Ky'lin, tell me the story. The moment you realized your school didn't have what you needed to learn chemistry.

Vicki Davis (06:00): And what was that like and how did you work to solve the problem?

Ky'lin Spears (06:01): I transferred to Maryland from Arizona, and I had just moved out here. I went to my chemistry class, and there were a lot of moments where we got our dates to do an assignment pushed back because we didn't have the chemical tools and lab equipment that we needed to do that. We had to use an old, outdated PhET simulator that wasn't really the greatest. I just decided.

Ky'lin Spears (06:27): I could probably make a tool similar to these that's more modern, more useful, and we won't have our dates for assignments pushed back because of the lack of lab equipment.

Vicki Davis (06:35): Okay, so tell us a little bit about how you built it. throw it at us. You know, did you code? Did you use AI to help you code? How did you do it? And then how did you get it up on the net?

Ky'lin Spears (06:44): I coded it completely from scratch with no AI I knew that I didn't want to have to pay for a server so I made it serverless with html CSS and JavaScript and it's a web app So it can be downloaded as well

Vicki Davis (06:57): Wow, so had you already had some courses or are you completely self-taught with all this?

Ky'lin Spears (06:58): I've been teaching myself how to program with YouTube for a couple of years now since about when I was nine or ten years old.

Vicki Davis (07:09): wow. I started coding when I was pretty young, just like you, except it was not quite as difficult as it is now to code. most students would just say, OK, this is just the way it is. But I really want to get at the trigger of what made you think I'm going to build something. I'm not going to settle for this because I want to.

Ky'lin Spears (07:10): what made me build something like that is because I seen how outdated the tools were that we were using at my school. And I also seen a lot of students in my classroom struggling to use the tool, asking me for help and things like that. And I just knew that the school needed better and that I could provide better

Vicki Davis (07:49): where did you start? What was the first simulation or activity you put in Atomency? And did you share it with your teacher?

Ky'lin Spears (07:57): Yes, the first thing that I built with this was a simple periodic table. I had all of the elements attributes like the molecular weight and everything like that listed for each and every element. I went and showed my chemistry teacher the periodic table. I added like a simple molecular builder where you can add, H to two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom and get H2O. And I showed him that and He seemed to like it. I kept building it and he encouraged me to continue building it.

Vicki Davis (08:25): So when you shared it with your classmates, did they feel like it made chemistry easier?

Ky'lin Spears (08:26): I've shared it with a few classmates and they were really impressed. They thought that it was easier to use than tools that we had before. a lot of people just encouraged me to keep going. So I kept building and building until eventually it is where it is now.

Vicki Davis (08:42): to get this interview set up because you're so busy. You're running track, you're going to school. Ky'lin, what keeps you going when it gets hard? Like, why would you do this as a side hobby?

Ky'lin Spears (08:43): I like programming chemistry and together I just, love the project. I love the task. I love improving it. I just like the progression of building the tool and it doesn't really feel like a task to me. It feels like something that I love to do.

Vicki Davis (09:05): Okay, so what was the hardest part of this whole process? Did you have a moment where you almost gave up?

Ky'lin Spears (09:10): building the molecular builder. It was very hard. There's a lot of different calculations and equations of rules that go into molecules how they bond, all things like that. It broke maybe over 50 times. but I eventually fixed it

Vicki Davis (09:11): So you made Atomency completely free with no login and no data collection. So why was that so important to you?

Ky'lin Spears (09:36): I had to make sure that there was no data collection because I know that schools have extra processes that they have to go through in order for tools to be passed when they do collect and handle students' because that is private information and it's hard to get a tool approved when you are collecting the students' data. And I also made sure to make it free for all of my classmates to use so that they can use it on their assignments, use it to help them understand chemistry because I know

Vicki Davis (09:37): Yeah.

Ky'lin Spears (10:04): A lot of people in my area and in my school don't necessarily have the resources and money to be paying for an expensive chemistry tool for one class.

Vicki Davis (10:11): this is just so let's talk to all the students who may be listening to you, Ky'lin, and like, what's your word to them when they come up with a problem at school? Like, what's your encouragement?

Ky'lin Spears (10:23): Or I would say just go ahead and try to build it. There's a lot of resources out there like AI, ChatGPT, a lot of things that can help them get it done. If they just have the idea, there's a lot of people who can support them. lot of podcasts that can be on to get their word out there and they can really grow into something. Just never be afraid to do what you want to do and try something.

Vicki Davis (10:43): So, Ky'lin, if a chemistry teacher right now is listening to us, how could they use Atomency in a lesson this week?

Ky'lin Spears (10:44): they can use advocacy in the lesson this week by, for example, telling a student to create a molecule that has a weight of over 20 and then just tell the students to keep trying to build a molecule that qualifies for all of the properties that they've set or like a water molecule for example, turns liquid at a certain temperature. They can have students keep adding atoms to the molecular builder until they can get an molecule that fits

Vicki Davis (11:18): Do you feel like you understand chemistry better from building this app?

Ky'lin Spears (11:21): Yeah, I did a lot of research and learned a lot along the way. I feel like it's made me a better chemistry student it's increased my understanding of chemistry overall.

Vicki Davis (11:31): Ky'lin, you reached out to me. You left a message on my website about what you have built. are you working to promote and tell people about it? Like, how did you find me? Did you sit down and just like say, hey, I want to tell other teachers or what'd you do?

Ky'lin Spears (11:43): I looked at a lot of podcasts and a lot of news stations and a lot of different people who might want to cover this or who would be helpful to get my project out there to the right people.

Vicki Davis (11:55): So you said I'm your first podcast. where all are you going to appear? Do you have any other ones

Ky'lin Spears (11:59): This is my first podcast, but I do have a news article coming up.

Vicki Davis (12:00): Ky'lin, I teach students, think teenagers are awesome and there's so many talented teenagers and you feel like your generation gets a bad rap? Like what do you want people to know about your generation?

Ky'lin Spears (12:16): I want them to know that our generation understands technology and what can be done with technology. And even though it might not be done like how it was preferred the just using our resources to our advantage.

Vicki Davis (12:29): So you have a message to all the parents out there about encouraging their children to do stuff like you're doing? Because I mean, this is going to really help you, I would think, heading to college.

Ky'lin Spears (12:40): do encourage parents to children to build and just use technology to the best that they can.

Vicki Davis (12:47): So, Ky'lin, what's your dream? What's next?

Ky'lin Spears (12:50): My dream is for Atomency to be adopted into multiple different high schools and eventually I do want to attend Harvard University.

Vicki Davis (12:59): with your dream of attending Harvard, like what do you want to major in? You want to do computer science or do you want to do another field

Ky'lin Spears (13:05): I'm interested in both computer science and chemical engineering. I'm not sure which one I want to lean towards yet, but I am interested in both.

Vicki Davis (13:12): they're kind of coming together in so many different ways. Ky'lin Spears 16 year old from Maryland who has built Atomency. That's A-T-O-M-E-N-C-Y. Ky'lin, I think this is just such a refreshing and an exciting story and I'm excited for you. Congratulations. I am so interested in why you didn't quit after having 50 failures with trying to create this molecular builder. mean, that is just so fascinating to me. What's your word to students who are struggling with failure? It's something they're trying to do and why they should keep going.

Ky'lin Spears (13:51): I would tell them that failure is just a part of life. You're going to fail plenty of times and you will rarely ever succeed on the first try. if you do succeed on the first try, you missed a few opportunities to learn and to enhance your knowledge on the subject.

Vicki Davis (14:03): Awesome. Well, we've been talking to Ky'lin Spears. Ky'lin, thanks for reaching out. Thanks for coming on the show. Good luck with your app and I appreciate you coming on.

Announcer (14:13): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (14:17): In his book, The Fifteen Valuable Laws of Growth, John Maxwell says the difference between a winner and a whiner is that a whiner wants to feel good before they do something. A winner does something and then feels good. Back in 2021, my mom had just died, and I was bringing up distance learning because most of my school was opening that semester in quarantine. I'm so glad we're past those days. Now that was a really hard season of my life here's what I wrote in my newsletter on January 6th, 2021. History is full of tragedies, but the stories we remember are the Phoenix rising from the ashes, not the fire that burned. We remember the never, never, never give up and the I have a dream speeches. But we don't remember the it's a hopeless everybody quit.

Vicki Davis (15:06): Or the excuses or one more person telling us how bad it is. If you're encouraging people to rise from the ashes, that's a great thing. If you're encouraging people to remain faithful and do the right thing, that's also great. If you're reminding people to work hard at work worth doing, that's what we do. That's the very reason that I buried my mom on Monday, January 4th, and I went back to running our cyber campus on Tuesday, January 5th.

Vicki Davis (15:07): Not because the mourning wasn't important. I grieve every day. And now as I'm recording this in 2026, I still grieve. Because living a life of service to others is what will help us ultimately become a great generation. We have a choice.

Vicki Davis (15:52): Be the greatest generation or the greatest heap of despair in the history of the world. And I'll choose the former. End quote. I went back to work the day after we buried mom because showing up was a habit she taught me long before it ever was a choice. Our next guest, Dr. Johanna David-Tramantano, has spent nearly 25 years in education. Teacher, a literacy coach, an administrator, and now a professor. She's also a mom who's watched her own kids make the jump from high school.

Vicki Davis (16:22): College. And she reiterated something for me that sounds kind of like what I just said. Showing up is not a skill, it's a habit. We spend years teaching students content, but the ones who struggle most in that first year of college or that first real job usually aren't the ones who didn't know the material. They're the ones who never built the habits.

Vicki Davis (16:43): Waking up without a reminder, keeping a planner, reading the syllabus and believing it, asking for help before it's too late. Johanna calls these enduring skills, and she's built an evidence-based framework, she calls it Connect, to teach them on purpose, woven through every year, instead of crammed into the spring of their senior year. So here's the honest question for all of us. Are we really getting our students ready for what comes after high school? Let's listen and think about that.

Announcer (17:12): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (17:16): Today we're talking with Dr. Johanna David-Tramantano, a career educator with nearly 25 years in the classroom in coaching and administration now as a professor. She has a new book, Connect, a high school to college success framework coming spring 2026 for educators on the high school to college transition. Now we'll be talking today about the Connect framework that she has, which is an evidence-based guide for building metacognition and self-efficacy in students. she hosts the Literacy Landscapes podcast and another podcast called Professor On Your Side. So if you've ever had a graduating senior who wasn't really ready for what comes next, this is the conversation that will change how you think about preparation.

Vicki Davis (18:11): Johanna, you've spent nearly 25 years in education at every level. What has made you zero in on this high school to college transition as the problem that needed your attention the most?

Johanna David-Tramantano (18:12): Yes.

Johanna David-Tramantano (18:23): I am the first to graduate college in my family in this country. looking back, this is very personal on a number of levels. when I conceived the idea for this book, I the university level also becoming a college mom. So I have a college junior right now and I'm soon to be an empty nester. I have a high school senior. So I'm going through this right now, both as an educator and a parent. And it was evident to me that we are, I don't want to sound cliche, but We have digital natives, we have students who have diverse learning needs, and there's a need for students to learn differently, engaged differently. Something's gotta change. I realized that we need to address student needs differently. So as you mentioned, I spent the last six years as a full college professor. I'm actually now back in the six through 12 space because I wanted to reengage in this work truly in the high school to college transition. And there's a need now more than ever to meet our students needs in this space. Students are struggling on a number of levels. are a variety of reports that are showing that student readiness is, not where it has been in the past students are struggling with less tangible skills, we used to call them soft skills, but there are enduring skills. So we're talking about executive functioning skills. We're talking about important social emotional skills, communication skills. think all the time, now that I'm back in the classroom, even the lessons I taught 10 years ago, I could never teach today. So my book is all about empowering educators with actual tools, what can I do today in my classroom to better meet the needs of my students today.

Vicki Davis (20:08): what are those lessons? Is it because of the attention span? Is it because their ability to concentrate? What is it?

Johanna David-Tramantano (20:09): the answer is yeah. there is some research that, I hate to typify, but there's a growing body of research demonstrating that students do struggle with more attentional challenges. There's alignment between how much time they spend on devices and their attention, And we know this because of a variety of factors, even at the college level, a research that showed that students think that they're studying, but if they have a device near them, the impact of their studying is not as effective because they're not even realizing they're checking their phone more frequently for notifications, for texts, they're more distracted than they realize. We also are preparing students truly for jobs that have yet to be created. This is an interesting conundrum for us. And I think it requires us now to think, what are the skills that students are really going to need? Well, they need communication skills. They need organizational skills. They need self-advocacy skills.

Johanna David-Tramantano (21:14): Yes, we also need to teach those tech skills. And I actually address that. do also make assumptions that because students are born with the ability to open up apps that they truly know technology. But actually, we still need to teach into those tech skills. We need to teach those vital, whether it's coding or truly understanding a computer works. really want

Vicki Davis (21:15): Or mean, that's the one that the kids tell me that is like the most useful, Ms. Davis, you taught me typing. And I'm like, well, couldn't it have been the glamorous, you taught me how to code? No, it's always some of the things, Johanna, are not skills at all. we see this thing in the Wall Street Journal is kids, they can't take criticism and they can't show up to work. showing up is not a skill, it's a habit,

Johanna David-Tramantano (21:38): Yes!

Vicki Davis (22:00): Don't we have a problem with absenteeism and kids not wanting to go to school? And if you're not there, how do you learn,

Johanna David-Tramantano (22:06): Yes, and I actually refer to this in my book. I use this pebbles in your shoe metaphor. If we all have felt having a little pebble in our shoe, if you have one, it could be the tiniest pebble in the world. But if you have a tiny pebble in your shoe, it stops you in your tracks. my Connect framework helps educators address what are those potential pebbles that can impact student learning. I mean that in every facet, not just the critical thinking and content, but also like you said, those enduring skills, taking feedback, communication self-advocacy, networking. We don't teach the skills of like, that's a tough skill to teach, but being able to reach out to others and mentorship and all the things that I think are really vital skills that students will take with them beyond college.

Vicki Davis (22:55): let's talk about this give us an overview. people will want to get the book for sure, just give us an overview of this evidence based framework to help kids with the transition from high school to college.

Johanna David-Tramantano (22:56): Yeah went down a deep rabbit hole asking myself, what is it that students need to be successful? And through that, I realized there were seven interconnected threads, if you will. And before you knew it, it was kind of you're looking at your alphabet cereal in the milk kind of a thing and putting words together. I realized that I was starting to form a word. the more and more, was not just the word connect, but it was actually also about how are we making connections with our students.

Johanna David-Tramantano (23:37): How are we helping students to connect to their learning? the categories that emerged from my research were students need support with communication, organization, networking, navigating technology, engagement, collaboration, and we actually need to teach into the transition piece. And I kind of refer to it almost as continuous thread metaphor. There's a Japanese art sashiko stitching, where someone who's sewing will sew with one continual thread. And so how do we thread all of these competencies, not just in a student's junior or senior year, but throughout their years of schooling in the high school and beyond? And how do we continue that thread? from the high school to college transition in a true way where how can we enhance partnerships between local school districts and college partnerships?

Vicki Davis (24:31): And you know, one of the challenges is so many kids now in the United States, their junior and senior year, so much that learning for whatever reason has shifted online where they're already taking college classes, but they're not really having to show up at a certain time. In many ways, they get a lot of freedom, they can sleep when they want, they go to class when they want, as long as they get the work done. And then they get up and go to college or go to a job and now they have structure back. And have we really prepared them for

Johanna David-Tramantano (24:32): Yes.

Vicki Davis (24:58): the skills that they need to be able to succeed in that environment. what do you say to parents who are like, hey, my kid made a lot of decisions so they could sleep late and work less their senior year and now they're back a freshman and they're having to start over. do?

Johanna David-Tramantano (25:14): I actually think the more we can involve parents in this conversation in concrete ways, the better. how can we truly engage parents in this process? there are a number of ways. I think first of all, the more concrete we can make things for our parents and our students, the better.

Johanna David-Tramantano (25:30): If you know, and I'm not gonna name names, but that one of your kids has trouble waking up at six in the morning to get to like an eight o'clock class, then that's a conversation for the students to have with their advisor to make sure they're not taking an eight o'clock class that they can avoid it, like, also wanna make those, let's say they don't have a choice, then we need to put some plans in place, right? that's when let's explore well in advance different kinds of alarm strategies we can put in place, practice in advance. get into a routine. All of those things are really important I recently had a person on my podcast, Annie Tulkin, who's a disability support specialist. She mentioned that if a student has a health issue and didn't have a 504 in place in advance, right? Because the school just kind of managed it without official documentation. maybe it's an opportunity to also, in advance, before they go to college, get the medical documentation, put those 504 plans, so that you can apply for services if you need. So if a student has health issues where they may have an episode of some kind and they need to have a little bit more flexibility,

Vicki Davis (26:44): as a former literacy director for a large urban district, what keeps you up at night about secondary literacy and college readiness? besides your own children, right? Cause we all have that experience

Johanna David-Tramantano (26:54): first we know that there's a continued need to support students across the content areas when it comes to literacy. thrilled to see that there's been a lot focus early childhood literacy, but we need not let go of what happens when we have students in middle and high school who are also struggling and what does MTSS, what does that multi-tiered support system look like at the secondary level? Because we need to continually build their skills and not just in ELA. How are we continually building their skills in the sciences, in social studies, in mathematics, in a way that supports them being able to be increasingly independent?

Johanna David-Tramantano (27:35): Can they read a textbook? Can they take effective notes? that's something I address because I think we assume sometimes that a student knows how to take notes, but model it explicitly. And I think the benefit is seeing an expert in their field demonstrating this is how I would do, I mentioned like a Feynman technique for studying or SQ3R or there are different approaches, right? And then helping students to identify what works for me as a learner. that's where that metacognition builds in.

Vicki Davis (28:07): So Johanna, I found a book. It's no longer in print, but when I was a freshman my parents bought for me and it taught me so many things, how to have a file system, how to take notes, how to study all these things you're talking about. And I really cue that as the reason I went to Georgia Tech. I graduated first in my class that book taught me all these things that nobody ever taught me, even though I was an A plus student,

Johanna David-Tramantano (28:08): Yep. Yep.

Vicki Davis (28:31): cannot underestimate as parents or as educators, these types of skills. And I know teachers that teach note taking and the kids come back and thank them. So what do you think is the biggest gap between what high schools think prepares students for college and what college actually requires?

Johanna David-Tramantano (28:49): I think the biggest challenge, especially as students progress in their secondary years is they go to school every day. They get reminders from their teachers every day, But when they get to college, they may have professors who give fewer reminders professors who are not at all and the syllabus. Yes. Yes.

Vicki Davis (29:03): or none at all. I mean, they put it on the syllabus and it says that paper is due. I'll never forget it. That paper is due. And I remember going in and handing that paper in and kids looking at the professor going, you never said anything. And he's like, it's on the syllabus. Your boss is not going to cause they feel like they're getting you ready for the real world, you know?

Johanna David-Tramantano (29:22): Yes. making that explicit, helping students in there. That's where I think that senior year transition, and you think about the gradual release model. where we want to taper off. Not that we don't want to remind students, but we want to also make it very explicit. name what we're doing. I always say becoming meta, let's I'm reminding you now you need to put a system in place because when you go to school next year, first of all, you're not gonna see your professors every day like you see me or every other day like you see your high school teacher, depending on whether they have block scheduling, right? helping the students to put in systems in advance. students love to say, I'll remember, I believe that they believe that, but they really need to come to the realization that having a system in place in advance, whether it's using a digital calendar or if you love, I have some students who love an old good old-fashioned paper planner, whatever works for you, but putting something in place well in advance. So kind when you get to the college space.

Vicki Davis (30:24): in one of my lessons I had to learn is that, yeah, I've got plenty of time between now and midterm, but I have three things to do on the same day. And it's funny, I'm a big paper planner person because for me out of sight, out of mind, and I believe the intentionality, even though I use a digital calendar for months out, years out, right? I still write it in my daily planner and I had a student, cause I always harp on this paper planner thing and…

Johanna David-Tramantano (30:25): Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Vicki Davis (30:50): And he actually went to my alma mater, Georgia Tech to be an architect student. And he said, Ms. Davis, first day the professor walked in and handed all of us a paper planner and said, I spent my own money on these. That's how important I think they are. I'm giving it to you if you use it. This is your secret way forward. he said, I used that planner and I wrote everything down and I looked at it every week for the first semester. And he's like, and a bunch of kids threw that planner away and never looked at it again and struggled or dropped or quit. it's just the intentionality of remembering is the fact that we can only remember a certain number of things at a time. And we need external tools to us and systems in place to help us. And that's the part of the metacognition that you're talking about, Johanna. we enable kids, you know,

Johanna David-Tramantano (31:20): Yeah. Yeah. Yes correct.

Vicki Davis (31:42): I've had senior parents checking behind their kids doing homework. how am I supposed to know what's for homework? And my answer always is, you don't need to know what's for homework for your senior. Your senior needs to know what's for

Johanna David-Tramantano (31:43): Yeah. Yeah.

Johanna David-Tramantano (31:55): Yes, yes, and yes. What I will say is it's okay to have a conversation with your college freshmen, maybe not at Thanksgiving dinner, maybe after Thanksgiving dinner, but check in with them because I think that freshman transition can be a little bit of a bumpy road at the beginning for some students. And students may be afraid to say, hey, mom, dad, messed up a little.

Johanna David-Tramantano (32:21): And you want to also open the door to, okay, let's come up with a plan before it's too late because the semester ends very And let's also help you figure out what are your next steps. How are you going to get help? Are you going to office hours? Are you talking to your advisor, X, Y, and Z? it's really important to strike that balance. for… parents and students to know there could be financial implications if they in their freshman year, their GPA be impacted. And we want to set them up for success. So finding that balance, couldn't agree more with you. There's a point where we need to let they need to do their work. But we also need to remind them they can talk to us if they need help.

Vicki Davis (32:44): Yes.

Johanna David-Tramantano (33:06): I think finding that balance.

Vicki Davis (33:07): Because for as many kids as we have stories of how they did well, we probably have three times more stories of kids who is a mom of three who've moved through college. That open line of communication, knowing I love you no matter what. You can always talk to me. We all make mistakes. We're in this together. We'll figure it out together. and then checking in, you can't assume.

Johanna David-Tramantano (33:10): Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Vicki Davis (33:34): that they're going to tell you what's really going on, you know? And it's harder. My parents, used to my grades from college came in the mailbox and my dad would be the one to open it. Now with the rules, sometimes parents don't even get to see their kids' And, as a parent, I can say I had to learn the hard way that I had to say, okay, if we're paying for college, we have a right to see the grades.

Johanna David-Tramantano (33:35): Right. Mm-hmm. yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Vicki Davis (34:00): And probably the biggest mistake that I made early on with mine was not pushing it. Because if you have them telling you the grades, sometimes they might tell you they did better than they did because they think they think they can figure it out on their own. But honesty is the only way forward. Too many tragedies happen with people not not being upfront with their parents. And then the parents are like, you know what? That child is more important to me than a grade could ever be.

Johanna David-Tramantano (34:01): Mmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Johanna David-Tramantano (34:30): Thank you for elevating that. That's so incredibly important. It's having that open line of communication and also celebrating their successes, even if they're out of the classroom. My son just sent me a really cool music slash art installation that he did his university. also just being, even though he's very far away, able to get a video clip of it him kudos for that a great opportunity to also just cheer him on. But my book does have really, what I hope are strategies I've implemented with my students.

Vicki Davis (34:32): Yeah.

Johanna David-Tramantano (35:07): I have an assignment strategy for beginning, like for freshmen to take all of their assignments in their syllabus for each class and create a word document with each assignment and label it a certain way, because just the act of creating a word document and labeling it and having the assignment on it, it takes away one of those pebbles and it makes students feel like I don't have a blank page or this abyss of assignments to do. So.

Johanna David-Tramantano (35:34): My book will have a lot of small tips and tricks that I hope teachers can use with students and that will hopefully be beneficial in things that I've used with my own students. That's the hope. Thank you.

Vicki Davis (35:46): Yes, this is so important. I think having books and reading them together in that season of transition and having the conversations is part of success. So Dr. Johanna David-Tramantano, the book is Connect, a high school to college success framework. This is a really important conversation. Thanks for coming on the show, Johanna.

Johanna David-Tramantano (35:51): Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah thank you so very much. I'm honored to be here Thank you.

Announcer (36:14): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (36:18): Wow, that should give all of us, educators, parents, students, something to sit with. Do you see a gap? How will you lead to help students in your area grow and improve? We all have hard things and a million excuses to quit and give up, but students today don't need quitters. They need people who show up and help them get up and move ahead. My goal is not to tell you how to think on this show.

Vicki Davis (36:42): You have minds, opinions, and a unique circumstance. But I do want you to hear multiple perspectives, stories of great people throughout history, and the research and observations so you can make up your own mind what needs to be done next in your situation. But we all need a to-be list before we make our to-do list. What do you want students who leave your school to be? And then back into the to-do list, what you'll do to help them get there.

Vicki Davis (37:12): Some schools call this the profile of a graduate. Stephen Covey called it beginning with the end in mind. Next, we'll talk to a leader who almost didn't become one because for a long time she could not see it in herself. Raquel Martinez grew up the daughter of migrant workers working in the fields until her teachers started speaking a different future over her. A science teacher told her she was good at science, and years later, When she was a young biology teacher who was sure leadership was for somebody else, someone with more experience, someone who didn't look like her, her principal looked at her and said, Essentially, you don't have a choice. You're going to lead this department. Raquel went on to be a high school principal, and she served as president of the National Association of Secondary School Principals for the U.S., the first Latina to hold that role.

Vicki Davis (38:06): And her message to other leaders is exactly what those teachers once did for her. What you say matters, and what's important to you is what you talk about the most. You grow leaders and you grow students by what you choose to speak over them again and again. That's the to be list lived out. Somebody decided who Raquel could be before she could even see it. Here's our conversation.

Announcer (38:29): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (38:34): It's so exciting today to talk to Raquel Martinez. She is in her second year as principal of Sageview High School in Pasco, Washington. She's been in education for 18 years. First 10 years as a biology teacher, And also has had a position as a bilingual facilitator. she's been a member of the NASSP National Association of Secondary Principals.

Vicki Davis (38:58): Board of Directors, but she is currently stepping up as president So congratulations, Raquel. what is your big message to principals as you travel the country?

Raquel Martinez (39:09): Thank you so much Vicki for this opportunity to just be able to speak about the principalship. I would say that leadership is difficult, important that we surround ourselves with others who are of same mind, same vision, and the direction that we're going to support each other. But most importantly, I would say we have a voice as secondary principals. And oftentimes, we get caught up in our own whirlwind of everything that's happening in our buildings I think sometimes we damper our own understanding of wanting to speak out and on behalf of principals. we have a voice, it needs to be heard. that's probably my biggest thing. how we do it. Here's how we can advocate. And here's how we can come together that the information that we do have to share is important and others around taking that into consideration. so it's that piece of it. there's others around us demonstrate talent and potential. I truly do believe that it's also growing opportunities to instill leadership in others and to grow them as well. how we do that is message to share with principals.

Vicki Davis (40:11): Mentorship is so important. And some of that comes from great principal teacher relationships because you were a teacher. So somebody mentored you. What did that process of leadership development in your own life look like?

Raquel Martinez (40:24): I was not a good listener originally. it took a, when I say the word tapped, I know a lot of people use that term, like someone tapped me on the shoulder. It wasn't a tap for me, it was more like a — [pretending to shake someone] — “I told you to do this!” — a grounding for me that convinced me that this leadership is your next step in your career. And so really instilled that within me, think of several. that consistently showed me the way, spoke into my life about, here's how we do it. Consider this reflective question guiding me along the any judgment. So free of judgment the time necessary to help me in that leadership path.

Raquel Martinez (41:04): 100 % Vicki agree with you that it's that principal teacher relationship and recognizing those around you that have that talent and potential and then really investing that time and energy to coach them through the process. It's already there. have those skills. They have the heart and are willing. It's just, let me show you how to do that. And I'm very grateful for all of those who have been able to help support process. And they still do.

Vicki Davis (41:30): you don't have to name names, but take us back to kind of a conversation and what it sounded like where the light went on and you started realizing your future as a leader in a school.

Raquel Martinez (41:41): I will tell you back when I was probably my third year as a teacher, actually, third year, maybe going into my fourth year, right around there, my building principal and one of the assistant principals at that time kept talking to me about, know, what you're bringing, the quality work that you're bringing, like you have to be, let's say, the science department chair of all these all of these teachers and in my mind I'm like, but I'm only like year three and teaching like, I'm not going to do that. All these chemistry teachers and physics teachers, like I'm just a biology teacher. And they're like, we need you to lead this department. I'm sure you've heard of this, Vicki — of this imposter syndrome where it's like, at that time I'm like, that's not me. That's not me. That's someone else, someone else with more experience

Vicki Davis (42:05): Yes.

Raquel Martinez (42:28): doesn't look like me is very different. Maybe a man, and here's what they do and that's totally fine. And I know my place in my role. I remember the building principal was like, you don't have a choice. Like you have to do this. So you will now be this leader of this department. Yes, sir. Yes. Yes, I will. So, it's part of that that nudge and kind of pushing, role and a supportive way and then continue to help build along the way these leadership opportunities. that's what I think about my initial experience and how I got into leadership.

Vicki Davis (42:50): Yeah.

Vicki Davis (43:02): So I want you to travel back to teenage Raquel and I want to hear the dialogue in your head about your best principal and why you thought that principal was so good. I want you just to kind of think of yourself as a teenager and what you saw in principals that made them great.

Raquel Martinez (43:21): I will share with you that back in my teenager years, I wasn't even looking or seeking this.

Raquel Martinez (43:27): I can speak to what amazing teachers that I had that helped support me and the relationship that my teachers had, like my science teacher had with me, my Spanish teacher, how, I mean, way back even in my middle school years, my PE teacher, without them helping.

Raquel Martinez (43:48): Honestly, it's the relationship and why you speak into your kids is almost true. Like that's like my jam and what we say matters and what what's important to us is what we talk about the most. And those relationships with the staff there, I don't know if I would be doing what I'm doing now. Honestly, it just my parents are migrant workers and I was working in the fields and it was much my parents very much telling me like, hey, education is important. Like you could continue to work through that and my teachers coming alongside and say, no, hey, you know what, you're gonna play basketball. ⁓ yes I am. And then I did, and I enjoyed it and that was an avenue in there. And then my science teacher in high school saying, hey, have you ever considered, do you like science? You're really good at it no one had ever shared that with me. And then I went into science, pre-med actually initially. I, so when you asked that question about amazing principals or great principals when I was a teenager, you know, I didn't think that way or see, see my principals in that regard. don't see, maybe spoke to them one time that I could remember. But it was really about the staff that I was around that was impactful.

Vicki Davis (44:38): Wow.

Vicki Davis (45:00): So you're really a principal who loves and respects teachers.

Raquel Martinez (45:01): Yes. Yes.

Vicki Davis (45:02): Yeah.

Vicki Davis (45:03): So, know, principals and you know, I found in great schools that principals and teachers are they're on the same team. It's not an us them. It's a we. Right. So how do you encourage principals to have that positive relationship with their teachers?

Raquel Martinez (45:04): first and foremost, know, we have to believe that we're one team, that we're building this team together. And we're all moving in the same direction. so the first thing is like my mentality and how I approach a staff member in our building. How we show up in our building is a reflection, is how our building is reflected. And so how do I inspire and how do I communicate that? It's based off of how I treat others, honestly.

Raquel Martinez (45:57): And how I want would want someone to treat me and my kids my own personal kids as well. You know when I'm talking to other principals It's helping them understand that it's not like what you speaking to you that gets on an us versus you versus them It's how can we come alongside each other? And what are you saying? What are you seeing in the classroom? And you know, is it a will issue or is it a skill issue? Like let's let's talk let's unpack that a little bit more and usually it's I just don't know how or you're not communicating this way. Like I need you to get this. So there's a lot of things within you know, I helped to paint the picture with the principals that my own collaborative principal group that I work with is understanding our roles as facilitators, as team players moving along. But really it's about how we show up and what we talk about the most is honestly what matters the most and why not speak into my staff's life.

Raquel Martinez (46:51): Why not project what I'm looking for from my staff to translate into our students. And so that's part of the continued work that I do with principals and as I mentor principals as well. yeah, it's something I'm very passionate about.

Vicki Davis (47:07): Yeah. So I did a recent episode of Cool Cat Teacher Talk, on school safety. And interestingly, the number one way to prevent school violence is positive teacher-student relationships. Like that's the number one. you have your principals coming to you and to your organization asking for guidance on safety events.

Vicki Davis (47:26): Like I've interviewed several principals preparing for the leadership episode of Cool Cat Teacher Talk and everybody's talking about safety events. So what are some some good resources some places principals can go do you find that a lot of principals are talking about this right now?

Raquel Martinez (47:41): Yeah, absolutely. Safety is a big thing. That's one of the things we're charged with as building principals is the safety of our students and staff. a great resource is our PRN network. And that's our network — it's a Principal Recovery Network within the NASSP organization. And really, it's a collaborative with principals who have unfortunately have had to go a drastic thing, traumatic event in their buildings with gun violence specifically. so having access to those resources that can get plugged in and having conversations with other principals who have experienced and really, coming around and supporting those principals. And so I would say our PRN network is our number one resource right now.

Vicki Davis (48:27): It is just a hard issue. It leaves scars not only on the people that the principles are leading, but on the principles themselves.

Raquel Martinez (48:37): yeah, not something that, you know, when you go to principal school, they say, hey, make sure you know how to do this. So when something like this happens, it's not something that's talked about often. But now, obviously, like there's more and more. And how do you get, how do you be in meeting the needs of our students? And that circles back into the mental health and those relationships and systems to be put in glad we're having this conversation more openly with other principals.

Vicki Davis (49:07): Yeah, and it's such a tough issue. so social media is impacting education in every way. A lot of times not in the greatest ways. Well, I was looking at some of the recent sort of viral videos and was, you know, basically teachers saying, you know, I send my child to the office for a discipline referral and they come back with a lollipop, and So there's, all this conversation about, you know, discipline and, I always hesitate to get in broiling now because a lot of times there's a gross oversimplification of issues just because, the side of the principal can't be told. It just can't for, for, for privacy reasons. So how are you directing principles now in terms of the struggle to, a safe environment with positive discipline, but also give grace as appropriate.

Raquel Martinez (50:00): know, part of it is the systems again that we have in place principals is understanding, honestly operating under transparency is communicating and working alongside your staff and understanding what are discipline referrals as an example that we're working through, whether it's social media or cell phones, my goodness, right? All the different components. All right, now let's, as a team, as a collective, this is what The law says that the requirements that our state, let's say, puts out there as recommendations, right? So how does that fit? Like and letting the staff know like here's what we have to adhere to for sure. Now let's list out what this says and really how this translates into the building. And so I think offering, making sure we're transparent in our processes, bringing our staff alongside process. It's not a top down thing. It's very much collaborative with our staff because they're the ones who are dealing with dealing with the majority of the disciplines is in the classroom. oftentimes you know the whole example that you provided they're coming back with a lollipop well was that part of the behavior plan for the student I don't know was that part of here like I don't know and so it's really being transparent and inclusive with our staff to develop those processes

Vicki Davis (50:59): with

Raquel Martinez (51:21): and providing professional development to be honest for principals, for staff, because not everything is an emergency either.

Raquel Martinez (51:30): Sometimes in the classroom, there's some things that can be deescalated in the classroom. So anytime we're removing a student, now we're kind of losing power because we're giving it to someone else as power, right? And how do you restore that relationship between the staff member and the student? And so I think there's providing professional development as well for our staff and for also our principals.

Vicki Davis (51:31): Yeah. Yeah part of your job has got to be advocacy for students who have English as a second language. so what's your message there? we've come a ways, but surely we have a ways to go, right?

Raquel Martinez (52:04): Yeah, I would say, we need to look at language as as not look at language as a deficit, learning a second language as a deficit, but really as an advantage, and as students are acquiring more languages, changing our mindset. So it's not a bad thing. Like we test students all the time in their primary language and they outperform you so as we test our students in their native language, right, they're still scoring very high, you know, and so we need to look at our students as multilingual learners, we need to look at, hey, you know what, they, cognitively are there. It's really just a language that we're having to they're gaining a second language right in there, right? And so really understanding it's a multilingual learners and changing the philosophy and thinking of others and helping them understand that it's not a deficit. It's really an advantage.

Vicki Davis (52:59): Absolutely. you know, I just think of the students I've taught when I've worked, say, for example, with a science teacher and said, OK, so, you have 150 words, but this student, you know, English is a second language for him. And how many of these words are necessary because he's not only having to understand the meaning of the word, but these are new words to him that he doesn't know what they are. And is there a different approach that we can take to respect the fact that you you want to teach him science? but there's also language in there. So it's not as simple as, It's not exactly the same thing when you have someone who has English as a first language in a science class, for example, with 150 vocab words for their AP class and a student who has English as a second language who has those 150 words, right?

Raquel Martinez (53:27): Right.

Raquel Martinez (53:44): Yeah, no, 100%, you know, and science in general is the whole language in itself, right? And really unpacking, even for our students whose their first language is English, is also unpacking the language for our students. Like how many of them need to know what ATP means? What it means — adenosine triphosphate? Well, why is that piece of it? Why do they need to really unpack what that actually looks like? And it has to be unpacked for all of our students, not just our multilingual learners, but all of our students.

Vicki Davis (53:45): Yeah.

Raquel Martinez (54:14): you know, and then teaching our staff really the strategies necessary to be able to have our kids maintain their first language and then also acquire, continue acquiring a second language in multiple content areas. So yeah, something that I'm also very passionate about and hopefully others can start seeing that it's an advantage language. Learning another language on top of what year your first language is.

Vicki Davis (54:15): Yeah. Yeah.

Raquel Martinez (54:16): huge advantage and a difficult process but it's an advantage.

Vicki Davis (54:45): As we finish up, sometimes being a principal can be a thankless job. So what's your thank you to principals?

Raquel Martinez (54:46): Well, it's National Principals Month, you know. I will say, I'm so encouraged every time I get to meet other principals who…

Vicki Davis (54:47): Ha ha.

Raquel Martinez (55:05): I understand that it is a thankless job. And I understand that what fills our bucket is when we see our staff get something, understand it, and it impacts our students. would honestly just offer some words of encouragement that, number one, you're not by yourself. There are thousands of principals who are going through the same thing you are, that we are, and it's about networking and meeting other principals that are going through those same things so that you have someone to depend on. You have someone who can help and support you along this journey so you're not by yourself. my encouragement would also be is to join a network with NASSP. They're all online. You can pick the times, the networks that you want to be a part of, and it's an opportunity to not be by yourself. That would be what I would offer.

Vicki Davis (56:01): Raquel Martinez, president of NASSP. Thank you for coming on the show and thank you for just encouraging principals. And I think the most refreshing, exciting thing for me as a teacher is so many of the amazing principals out there started as teachers and have such a heart and love and respect for the importance of teachers. And the way forward is together. So thanks for coming on the show.

Raquel Martinez (56:25): Thank you so much, Vicki. Appreciate the opportunity.

Announcer (56:29): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (56:34): Raquel had teachers who were leaders in her life, and so she became a leader.

Vicki Davis (56:37): Now she's paying it forward to inspire others to lead. Leadership means that sometimes when we're tired, we have to lead our own attitude. If your personal self-talk is wise and powerful, you've just unleashed a remarkable ability to improve your own life. The remarkable educator, Booker T. Washington, in his book, Up From Slavery, said, most leaders spend time trying to get others to think highly of them.

Vicki Davis (57:05): When instead they should try to get their people to think more highly of themselves. I hope today has made you think as we talk about what matters in the classroom. I hope you'll use your influence to be kind, helpful, and to be a light for others. Life is too short to stop living. Death is too permanent to race towards it.

Vicki Davis (57:06): Thoughtful living and intentional acts of love, grace, and goodness are what we need to build a bridge from the past over these troubled waters of today into a brighter tomorrow.

Vicki Davis (57:35): I'm Vicki Davis and you've been listening to Cool Cat Teacher Talk. See you later, educator.

Announcer (57:41): Cool Cat Teacher Talk with award-winning teacher Vicki Davis. Follow that Cool Cat Teacher everywhere you connect.

Vicki Davis: Today's show is sponsored by EF Educational Tours and their Career Readiness Tours. To show your students what careers look like up close and in action, go to eftours.com/ready and stay tuned at the end of the show to learn more.

Our guest today, Donnie Piercey, is about to set the record for being on my show the most. I ran into Donnie Piercey again at FETC. We were both featured speakers in the teacher track, and he is the 2021 Kentucky Teacher of the Year. He teaches fourth grade in Lexington, Kentucky, and is in his 20th year. We're going to talk about vibe coding. How do you simply explain what this vibe coding thing is? And is it something that a normal teacher can do?

Donnie Piercey: Well, a hundred percent. Vibe coding almost sounds like — gosh, is this a new computer language? Is this a new thing that I have to pretend like I know what I'm talking about, but I can just throw the jargon phrase around and people think I'm smart? In a nutshell, what it is, is you use an AI tool — whether that's Google Gemini, ChatGPT, or Base44.

Basically you just go into one of those tools, pick your preferred one, tell it that you want to write code that does blank, and sometimes it might ask you some follow-up questions, but it'll write the code for you. And that's nothing new — that's existed in AI really since ChatGPT launched. But what's different now is you can do the follow-up. Now you can say, “I have this code, I have no idea what I'm doing, can you tell me what I'm supposed to do with this? Where does it go?” And the AI tool will walk you through it.

Vicki Davis: So, Donnie, I was struggling to teach my eighth graders last semester. I used all the regular tools that we subscribe to and I was not happy — I had to retest and retest. Well, this semester I took all that content and uploaded it to my favorite AI tool of choice. It was really, really cold recently, and we're the Eagles. I wanted it to be about keeping the eagle from freezing on the nest — the more questions you got right, the more it warmed the nest up and saved the eagle. But here's the thing that happened: I had no retest. The kids made five points higher on average than last semester. It was once and done, and they loved it and they had fun. I was sitting there watching them play it and I could see the results right there. It was like — this is something that is a game changer.

Donnie Piercey: We probably all have that one friend who just knows coding, and every now and then we might text them or send them a screenshot like, “Hey, I'm trying to get this HTML code to work.” They'd write back, “Just fix this part,” or make some snarky Nick Burns “your company computer guy” comment. But now, with AI, we don't have to pester that person anymore. What's wild is — vibe coding's not perfect. Believe it or not, AI makes mistakes. Sometimes the code it writes won't run, and it'll display an error message. It still kind of breaks my brain sometimes. But then I realized — why don't I just screenshot the error message and copy and paste it into Gemini or ChatGPT and say, “Hey, the code you wrote, it ain't working. It's giving me this message. Can you fix your code?”

But here's the thing — I like to learn how to do stuff. So anytime I do that, I'm always trying to read through what it says, because eventually I'd like to get to the point where I don't always have to copy and paste everything. Nowadays I'm a lot better than I was two and a half years ago when I first started. I'll say, “Hey, it's giving me this error message — make sure you tell me why, what's wrong, so that if I see this again I know how to fix it in the future.” Because sometimes it's just a bracket in the wrong place. It's really fun, super cool to play around with.

Vicki Davis: Okay, so give us some examples of things that have impacted your day in your classroom using vibe coding.

Donnie Piercey: My first advice for teachers is to ask yourself: what is one small thing — an app or a tool — that if you could make a Google Doc do this, or a Google Slide do that, it would make your day a thousand times easier? Identify that small problem, jump into Gemini, and say, “Hey, I need this to happen. Here's the problem. Can you write some code for me?” When I was first starting out, I'd always put a little addendum on the end — “and I have no idea what I'm doing, so please don't use any technical jargon, just tell me where to copy and paste this.”

So, a simple example. I'm a full-time fourth grade teacher. I do whole-group reading, whole-group math, then small-group reading and small-group math. If I'm not meeting with a small group, the other 20-plus students always want to know what they're supposed to be doing. In the past I'd have a slideshow broken down by groups and times. I took a screenshot of just one of my task lists — and I removed student names because I refused to train the model — and said, “I want a printable to-do list for my students every day based off of this.” It said, “Sure — make a sheet, make a slide template,” and it actually formatted the Google Sheet for me, which was wild. And then it said, “Now you're going to make some Google Apps Script,” which still makes me laugh because it abbreviates to GAS. It walked me through it step by step.

Now, at the start of every day, before I leave, I open the spreadsheet, type in the assignments I want my students to do, click a little button, and it creates these printable task lists for me. I put about an hour's worth of work into it, but it has saved me countless hours of printing task lists — and parents love that these things get sent home every day, too.

Maybe you've got your weekly classroom newsletter in Google Slides. There's no native translate tool in Google Slides, but there is Google Apps Script you can add. In my classroom this year I've got five different languages — some not even easily in Google Translate. Ask it to create Google Apps Script for your newsletter — “I want it where, when I click this button, it takes what's on slide one, translates it into those five languages, and then I can print it all off or email it in one fell swoop.” I've been playing around with vibe coding now for over two years. I know a thousand times more now than when I asked it to write a simple Frogger game in HTML with emojis. Now you can actually make stuff, and it's fun.

Vicki Davis: A lot of these things you can publish to HTML and then put the link in — or publish to all different types of things so it could be a game a kid could play. I uploaded all my stats from my podcast and made an HTML dashboard, and had it tag every single one based on topic. I can pull up the top five in this topic, top five in that topic — it makes it really easy to figure out, “Hey, this might be a great one to add to a radio show I'm doing.” It's just so powerful. It's stuff I've never had access to before, whether I'm at school or at home. Are there other ideas you've seen teachers do?

Donnie Piercey: You can ask Gemini to write HTML code for you. Maybe you're a high school teacher and you want your students to balance equations — ask it to write script or HTML code you can copy and paste or embed onto a Google Site, and then send that site to your students. I like to be silly sometimes — that's how you learn how this works. My first website that I wrote and published from start to finish — go to GIFdebate.com. That's G-I-F-debate.com. It's a site I put together that finally answers the question of how to pronounce that word correctly.

Vicki Davis: I use Claude Cowork and have created some skills. I dictate voice memos on the way to school. I used to do a transcript and then try to do something with it, but now I just throw it in a folder, and I have a custom skill I run every morning that turns it into multiple things for me. It's just so powerful, whatever tool you want to use. I'd say start easy. Starting with HTML is a good way to start for teachers, or for whoever. And honestly, I just upload the HTML file in Google Classroom and it works just fine.

Donnie Piercey: You can just open it up in Chrome and it works exactly like it's supposed to. For your listeners, if they're thinking “that sounds way too complicated,” go to whatever tool you use —

Vicki Davis: You can go to Canva Code, even. It works.

Donnie Piercey: Yeah. You just say, “Write me a simple game that checks to see if my students know their multiplication facts.” It'll write the code, and you're probably like, “I have no idea what to do with this.” So your follow-up should be, “I have no idea what to do with this. I want my students to be able to play this game now — what do I do?” And it'll walk you through it step by step. It's really wild how scarily easy it is. It'll also teach you a little more about the creative process that goes into coding. At first you'll feel like the AI is doing everything, but eventually — “I don't need to ask it to change this number, I can just do this here, I can hop in the code myself.”

Vicki Davis: It's great for our students to be able to understand how to create the apps and tools they need for their lives. When they get to the level I teach — high school — I teach AP CSP, and I want my students to be able to describe the programs they want. I really think AP CSP is one of the most valuable courses because — and I'm biased, of course — it enables powerful vibe coding when you understand just a little bit. So, Donnie Piercey, so many things we could go into. You're one of my favorite teachers to see present at conferences, and it was great connecting with you at FETC. Thanks for the show again — I'll have to get you a t-shirt or something.

Donnie Piercey: Just look up the Saturday Night Live five-timers club — you need a little card or a smoking jacket. Awesome. I appreciate it. Thank you, Vicki.

Vicki Davis: Thanks for coming on the show, Donnie.

Teachers, show your students what a career actually looks like — not in a textbook, but in the real world. On an EF Career Readiness Tour, your students will connect with entrepreneurs at the London School of Economics, or go behind the scenes at Toyota's manufacturing plant in Japan, or tour a French culinary school to see future chefs in action. EF Career Readiness Tours can take your students around the world for hands-on industry experience you can't replicate in the classroom. Browse EF Career Readiness Tours at eftours.com/ready. That's eftours.com/ready — and make careers come alive through travel.

Vicki Davis: Today's show is sponsored by EF Educational Tours and their Career Readiness Tours. To show your students what careers look like up close and in action, go to eftours.com/ready and stay tuned at the end of the show to learn more.

Vicki Davis: Our guest today, Dr. Sarah Thomas, is a trailblazer in education. She is the Regional Technology Coordinator for Prince George's County Public Schools in Maryland and founder of EduMatch, a global network where educators connect and collaborate. She's also won the ISTE Making It Happen Award. At ISTE 2025, she's spotlighting the intersection of AI and education. Thank you for coming on the show, Sarah.

Sarah Thomas, PhD: Thank you so much for having me, Vicki.

Vicki Davis: You're really passionate about using AI in the right ways, and you believe AI is a creativity amplifier. That's so different from what a lot of people believe. Why do you believe that?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: I've been wrestling with my own use of AI, and I've been thinking about this intently for the last couple of weeks. One thing that someone said on Facebook when I threw it out to the community: that AI, if you use it for productivity, actually frees up your time so that you're able to shine and devote your own space and creativity to your zone of genius. And I really, really love that. It resonated with me because it definitely helps me automate a lot of things and gives me back more time in my day.

Vicki Davis: So what kind of things do you automate with AI?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: A lot of organization. I was giving a keynote — I created the slides and the content myself, but I did a run-through of how I was going to present it. I spoke to the AI and said, if you could just give me this back in bullet-point format so I could plug it into my speaker notes. If I were to do that myself, it probably would have taken me way longer. That's one thing it really helped me with.

Vicki Davis: A lot of people say students can't use AI, we don't want them to use AI, with all the debates going on. As you advise your district, what are some of the good uses of AI you really like to see students have?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: Just as with anything else, AI is nuanced. There are some big rocks you have to make sure are in place — for example, COPPA and FERPA protections. Making sure that PII is not uploaded, and really reading the privacy policies and terms of service to figure out what kind of information they're collecting on students. I speak with a lot of districts about their plans for rolling out AI, and one pivotal point: as educators, we really need to understand how these tools work. If we're not in those spaces, it opens up Pandora's box. We definitely need to model for our students how to use it ethically and how to maximize their output — not just run it through and copy and paste whatever the output is. That reminds me of when I was first teaching and students got a hold of Wikipedia and would just copy the page and paste it. Really teaching them to use AI in a way that helps them brainstorm and maximize their creativity — that's what we need to encourage.

Vicki Davis: Tell me a story. Have you seen a student recently use AI in a really cool way where you thought, yes, that's what I want to talk about?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: The district I work most closely with has been doing a lot of piloting with artificial intelligence, and I've been looking at it with an eagle-eye view — students using it as a writing tutor, to give them feedback, to help poke holes in their work. Teaching our students to use it in a way that makes them better — I think that's where all the magic is lying.

Vicki Davis: I want them to know how to use AI to give them formative feedback before I grade. It's kind of like spell check to me — I won't take it if they haven't spell checked. And now I don't even want to take it unless they've gotten that initial AI feedback. Why should I be the one getting the feedback and sitting there going through it?

Vicki Davis: How do we help educators move from fear to using AI in the classroom? Because there's a lot of fear.

Sarah Thomas, PhD: That's understandable with a lot of new things — that fear. AI has its pros and its cons. When I first started learning about it, I was just like, yes, AI! But the more I use it and learn, there are things we need to keep in mind. The key is making sure everyone is well-informed of the good and the bad. I think it was Carnegie who said, if you're afraid of something, think of the worst possible outcome and then prepare against that.

Vicki Davis: Yeah — Dale Carnegie. I feel like fear is paralyzing kids, adults, so many people, especially as it relates to AI. There are some AI views that I think are over the top — okay, we're going to marry AI and all that. That's not healthy. I'm pro-human, you know? So let me ask you this: is there one piece of advice for teachers just starting to integrate AI, and what would it be?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: We want to keep our students safe. When using AI, be sure not to enter personally identifiable information — keep that secure. Thankfully I don't have a horror story, but I can give you a hypothetical. If that's input into an AI system without safeguards, it could help train the model, and all of a sudden the model knows that little Jimmy goes to such-and-such school. We really don't want to give that information about our students. On the flip side, also evaluate the output. I spoke to the Wikipedia example with our students, and it's so easy to fall into that trap ourselves — we want to verify whatever AI gives us. I heard someone mention the 80/20 rule: even if it does 80% of the work, that 20% — eyeballs on it, tweaking it — that's something we need to do. I have a quick story about that: a lawyer used AI to look up case history and actually tried to use the output in a courtroom, but most of those were hallucinations. You always have to go back and verify.

Vicki Davis: Ugh. Because we're ultimately responsible. Tools like Perplexity — that's why I'm kind of liking it, because it can be more accurate. I like to play “find the lie in AI” with my students. We use different models on something we know. The way they do it is, who's the greatest basketball player who ever lived, or what's the best movie ever — something they know about, so they can see, hey, this might be debatable. Because they think there's just “the answer.” So, as we finish up — we're recording this before ISTE, and this will air after ISTE 2025 — if you could pick one thing you want everybody who goes to your session to understand, what is that one thing?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: What I'd want everyone who comes to my session to understand is the power that we have as educators, the power our students have, and that when we collaborate among ourselves and with each other, we can truly change the world. That would be my one takeaway.

Vicki Davis: What do you say to people who say AI can help with a teacher shortage?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: It can maybe help brainstorm some solutions, but AI is not going to take the place of a teacher. It can help with instructional practice, but there's nothing like a human being. Like you said, you're human first — human-centric. I agree with that. A robot is not going to take the place of a teacher.

Vicki Davis: We would never think a robot could be a doctor. It's insulting to the professionalism of teachers. We've got such a teaching crisis now. Everybody I ask — these questions are about relationship — and I always say you have to relate to educate. So Sarah, Dr. Sarah Thomas, where are the places people can go to connect with you?

Sarah Thomas, PhD: I would love your listeners to connect with me — I love to talk shop. You can find me on the socials, Sarah the teacher: S-A-R-A-H-D-A-T-E-E-C-H-U-R. And you can find my organization, EduMatch, at edumatch.org. Definitely reach out, click on that “Work With Us” page, and see how we can support you.

Vicki Davis: Thank you, Sarah. I appreciate you for coming on the show.

Sarah Thomas, PhD: Thank you so much, Vicki. I appreciate you.

Vicki Davis: Teachers, show your students what a career actually looks like — not in a textbook, but in the real world. On an EF Career Readiness Tour, your students will connect with entrepreneurs at the London School of Economics, go behind the scenes at Toyota's manufacturing plant in Japan, or tour a French culinary school to see future chefs in action. EF Career Readiness Tours can take your students around the world for hands-on industry experience you can't replicate in the classroom. Browse EF Career Readiness Tours at eftours.com/ready. That's eftours.com/ready — and make careers come alive through travel.

Miranda Grabowski (00:04): I get to sit back and watch my students learn how science happens in the real world.

They’re actually doing the science on their own, not just sitting back and letting someone talk.

Angela Cannava (00:15): Ms. Cannava, everything you taught me is actually what they do in the real lab. This is so cool.

Vicki Davis (00:21): Today’s show is sponsored by EF Explore America and the STEM Tours. To show your students how STEM impacts the world up close and in action, go to efexploreamerica.com/STEM. And stay tuned at the end of the show to learn more.

Vicki Davis (00:41): Welcome to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. I’m Vicki Davis, the Cool Cat Teacher. And today we’re talking about something that changes students forever — teaching STEM when you travel with your students. Here’s what I’ve learned after more than two decades in the classroom: STEM stops being abstract the moment a student does real science in a real place.

A biology class in Panama plants mangroves. A biomed class in the UK runs a live DNA fingerprinting lab. A middle schooler walks the MIT campus. Today you’ll meet four teachers who did exactly that. Let’s go.

Miranda Grabowski (01:18): Recently I got back from our Panama trip. Forty of our 11th graders — our students — were in Panama to help conserve their wetlands.

I get to sit back and watch my students learn in real time how science happens in the real world.

They’re actually doing the science on their own, not just sitting back and letting someone talk to them. Out there in the boots, picking up the mangroves, getting on a boat, getting sunburned, going to plant these mangroves to help conserve that natural environment of the country. It’s great to see the students not just pretend to like the thing, but actually do the thing.

Which is one reason I love traveling with kids — is to see them actually get their hands into whatever it is, whether it’s mangroves or paint restoration or whatever the activity is focused on that day. That’s why I like traveling — is to see the kids actually experience things as opposed to just read about them.

Vicki Davis (02:14): Miranda Grabowski in Panama. But what happens when a high school CTE biomed teacher takes her class across the ocean and her students suddenly realize the experiment they’re doing is the exact same one working scientists do for a living? Angela Cannava, Denver, Colorado.

Angela Cannava (02:33): I remember one student that necessarily wasn’t the most excited to be in class sometimes — I just remember him coming up to me after doing the whole forensics workshop and saying, “Ms. Cannava, everything you taught me is actually what they do in the real lab. This is so cool.”

We did everything from health science related things — anatomical museums and seeing anatomical artifacts that were collected from years ago, a lot of the old paintings that were done of anatomy, some of the first anatomical paintings that were done. We had to go see all of those. That hooked really nicely also into the anatomy class that I teach, because I also teach an anatomy class. Lots of classroom connections with what we were actually doing and seeing. But then you also have all the really fun stuff beyond the learning part of the EF Tours. We went on the London Eye and it was like sunset and beautiful. And I have this picture of these students just looking out across the skyline — all smiles — and I’ve never seen such happy kids in my life. It was a really good mix of getting to see really good sites plus the learning.

A key for any teacher wanting to take students on a trip is just — number one — knowing that you can definitely do it. If you build strong relationships with students, they will want to travel with you.

Vicki Davis (03:57): DNA in the UK. Next stop, Boston, where a principal took seventh graders to MIT, Harvard, and the FIRST Robotics regionals — because you can’t want the future if you’ve never seen it. Karen Spencer, Parkview Baptist, Baton Rouge.

Karen Spencer (04:13): We went to MIT and Harvard — got a glimpse at Harvard, an Ivy League, more liberal arts school, and then MIT, a more STEM school — to show them options. But it starts now, building that résumé and getting your scores up, your transcripts ready, so that you have options when you get there.

We did a tour of Fenway Park, went to MASS Robotics, and just got to experiment there. And we, of course, turned it into a competition and they were all in. Did you know that Boston has a Museum of Ice Cream? We found that one on this trip and it was so fun. We did the Fine Arts Museum, the Museum of Science, we did Lexington and Concord, the Boston Tea Party, the USS Constitution. We did the Freedom Trail. We walked up Beacon Hill. You name it — I think we did it. I have to tell you, Boston this time of year was stunningly beautiful with all the trees in bloom and the tulips and the daffodils.

Vicki Davis (05:11): Yes. And we’re recording this in April 2026. If you’re saying, “Hey, I want to go when it looks like that” — so you’ve been using EF Tours for a while. Why do you keep coming back to them?

Karen Spencer (05:21): Well, they have proven time and time again that they’re willing to listen. They’re willing to help me. I will tell you — on this last trip, the Museum of Ice Cream was an absolute spur-of-the-moment thing. One of the parents mentioned it in passing at lunch. And I said, “Wait, what?” I looked at my tour guide and said, “We have to make this happen.” And he was like, “Let me see if we can squeeze it in.” He and I start looking at our schedule — how can we squeeze it in? I call EF. I said, “How can we make this work?” And they were like, “We’re on it.” They jumped on it with us and it was amazing. Three hours later we were there.

And that’s one of the reasons I like EF so much — they want to work with me. They want to make it a great experience. And I trust them. They’ve been in business a long time. They send security guards to help at night, that sort of thing. It just gives me a peace of mind.

Vicki Davis (06:15): We’ve been talking with Karen Spencer, principal at Parkview Baptist School from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Vicki Davis (06:21): Ivy League in seventh grade plants the seed. But what happens when a social studies teacher takes eighth graders to hands-on science museums in Washington, DC? Edith Cortez, Laredo.

Edith Cortez (06:34): Everyone thinks Washington — monuments and memorials. But the museums that we went to were hands-on and my kids loved it. The museums — they are so competitive. They had so many scenarios to gravitate from and moving around in every single one. And then they had to beat each other through the activities to get to the end game.

We went to several different museums that we were able to visit during our Washington STEM trip and that was very interesting for us.

Four boys that traveled with me were my students that year. And they were so excited to travel — “we’re gonna do this and we’re gonna do that.” And I kept saying, “It’s a STEM trip. It’s a STEM trip, we’re gonna do this.” And they all loved the idea of it, but they didn’t understand or internalize what it really meant.

Once they got there, they were like, “Hey, Miss Cortez — yo, this is really cool. I didn’t think we were gonna get to do all these things.” I’m like, “What did you think it meant?” They’re like, “I don’t know — we had no idea we were going to actually build on things or try to navigate through all of these activities or scenarios.”

There was one that showed about terminology and then they gave them scenarios and they had to build on a story. And my boys were so extravagantly engaged with it that they just ran with it. So many details, they added so much to it. They had the crowd going. I have a massive group thread with all the parents and I’m sending them pictures of everything. The parents are like, “My — we should have signed on to this trip.”

But it’s not easy. Hardships happen and life happens. Sometimes they don’t have that opportunity, and I totally understand — because my parents would have never, probably, been able. I always tell my students: if and when you have the opportunity in life, take advantage of it. Because there’s a whole world outside of Laredo, Texas.

Vicki Davis (08:07): Yeah.

Edith Cortez (08:25): We need to take advantage of seeing—

Vicki Davis (08:28): Four teachers. Four different subjects. One shared truth: once a kid has done it, they start asking, “Could I do this for a living?” That’s the magic. And that’s why EF Tours, our sponsor, exists — to help teachers like you and me take STEM off the page and into the world. This is Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (08:48): If you’re a STEM teacher like me, you want your students to see how STEM impacts the real world — not just read about it. On an EF Explore America STEM tour, they might code robots with MASS Robotics at MIT, explore marine ecosystems in Florida’s coral reefs, or even sit down with a former spy in Washington DC to discover how STEM thinking shows up where you least expect it. Every itinerary is designed by experts to amplify what you teach through hands-on experiences that can’t be replicated in the classroom. Visit efexploreamerica.com/STEM and see what an EF Explore America STEM tour can do for your students. Some of the greatest things I’ve ever done with my students have been tours. They make it all easy for you. So again, check out efexploreamerica.com/STEM.

Vicki Davis: I'm so excited today for us to be talking with Jean-Claude Brizard. He's a prominent education leader and reformer, and he's currently serving as President and CEO of Digital Promise — a global nonprofit focused on advancing innovation and equity in education. He was born in Haiti, and his early life was shaped by his family's flight from political persecution, which deeply informs his commitment to educational opportunity for all of our students. Jean-Claude, you began your career teaching incarcerated youth at Rikers Island. That's quite a beginning to a teaching career. What do you want to share about that beginning experience?

Jean-Claude Brizard: Vicki, first of all, thank you for having me on your show. How I got to Rikers was interesting — and many teachers I know in New York City understand this. I had a job at a high school in Queens, and I was bumped. I was excessed or displaced. They sent me to Rikers to go teach. So I didn't choose to go there. I was sent there. At the same time, it was a formative experience for me to really understand what happens if we don't do well by young people in our communities. I was sent to Rikers. I was barely 21, 22 years of age, and the young people who were there were up to age 19, maybe even 20. So they were basically my age. I had to grow a beard and put a tie on so I wouldn't be mistaken for an inmate. The experience I had, which has been sort of foundational, was meeting a young man who looked just like me — and he couldn't do basic math. He had stopped going to school in the fourth grade. In one semester I was there, we were doing algebra work. Brilliant young man. I really believe we lost a mathematician. We lost a brilliant contributor to our society. I don't know what he did, but he brought joy to my life and really made me go back and say, okay, I'm going to stay in this profession longer and see what I can do to support young people on the other side, before they get incarcerated. That was 38 years ago.

Vicki Davis: You still remember — because I think sometimes the best educators are those who can picture in their minds that student that we have to reach. We have to be passionate about reaching them. Do people ever say to you, you can't reach all of the children, so why do you even try?

Jean-Claude Brizard: I've heard that. That's what I hear about the average pass rate, the average graduation rate. I always tell people that I have children — and if they're not in the average, if they're the ones who are failing, then I really, really get angry as a parent. So I developed this attitude, this philosophy, that every child is a work of art. Our job is to create masterpieces. Not a single one should be left behind, because that individual child is really important to that parent, to that family. So we have to do everything possible to make sure that we're reaching every single one of our children. One person can't do that — clear about that. It takes a community of adults to really support this push: that every child matters.

Vicki Davis: Jean-Claude, you're speaking my language. My listeners will know that the name of my classroom is Masterpiece Theater, because I believe that every child is a masterpiece. So we are totally connected here. As you work to bridge gaps — reading is a fundamental entryway into every other subject. What's going on with Digital Promise in reading that can impact classrooms across the country?

Jean-Claude Brizard: We work at the intersection of learning science, research, technology, innovation, and practice. We center practice in everything we do. So one example of how we're thinking about reading and technology and learning science is an amazing project that was funded by the U.S. government called the You Gain Reading Center. We're taking a science-of-reading platform, Amira Learning, with a bunch of teachers and principals in seven school systems right now, working with MDRC, Penn Graduate School of Education — and of course, we're leading the effort, with folks who are experts in multilingual learning. So we're taking an existing platform and, through a co-creation construct — meaning teachers are involved with technology developers — we're extending the platform to serve multilingual learners. You think about intonation, you think about dialects, you think about what we face in so many parts of our country around kids who are coming from different places that perhaps the science-based platform was not designed to serve. Right now we've got districts in Texas, in Maryland, Washington, D.C., who are involved in this co-creation project, taking a platform and extending it — using what we know about multilingual learners, what we know about the science of reading, and what we know about AI. All that comes together in a beautiful salad that will serve so many, many young people across this country.

Vicki Davis: So it sounds like you've got your beta testers. When will this be available to a wider group? Because you're going to have a lot of teachers who listen to this and say, Jean-Claude, I need this now.

Jean-Claude Brizard: It's going to be available immediately to those who are using that particular platform — who are part of it. But ultimately, what we do is we codify the knowledge and we disseminate it. It's going to happen over time, meaning that you'll see reports come out in a year, then in two years, in three years. So I believe within three years we'll have this whole thing actually completed. But you'll see iterative development of this. We've already published articles on this. So I would tell your viewers: look at our website, keep track of what's happening, because we produce a lot of information. Ultimately, our goal is to make sure this shows up in every tech platform, in every science-of-reading platform that serves not just our nation, but the world.

Vicki Davis: This is a good use of artificial intelligence — because I know that so many people are critical of AI. But if you look at some of the greatest promises that AI holds, it's for bridging multiple languages, isn't it?

Jean-Claude Brizard: Yes, that's one. There are language platforms doing an amazing job of human and technology together, serving us around global languages, multilingual learners, et cetera. But I am really bullish around Gen AI and what it can do for curriculum, for instruction, for pedagogical practice. I just presented to the Pennsylvania Tech Conference, to about 1,200 educators who are interested in Gen AI and curriculum. We talked about math, real examples in mathematics, real examples in biology, in American history, in reading — where Gen AI has the real potential to revolutionize, to uplift what we do in pedagogy. Let me be clear though: technology is not going to revolutionize education. People will. Teachers will. Principals will. The technology is going to be an enabler. But what we're seeing already in Gen AI and curriculum is that it can bring things to life and make it real. I'll give you an example. In American history, I saw a project at ASU — at Arizona State University — where they are shifting your mental model of American history by actually having a conversation with real Americans who were part of the Revolutionary War. One example was a housewife in Georgia who captured seven British soldiers by herself. And you can engage her in conversation about who she was. So it's not about the founding fathers, but about the average American. And so many of us who teach history, who learn history, don't often get the perspective of the average person on the Hill in World War II. The average person fighting the Revolutionary War. Now we have the potential through Gen AI to have that kind of conversation about figures in history — but yes, also about the average person in history.

Vicki Davis: Yes — and you kind of hit on something that's an opportunity but also a concern. Because there are a lot of folks who say, well, AI makes mistakes, and how do we know that they're authentically representing people, because AI is biased. Do you have a concern of the bias that could come in — that they may be speaking as that person, but what if they aren't truly representing that person well?

Jean-Claude Brizard: That's a great point. We talk about mitigating bias. We can't eliminate it because technology is created by humans, and humans have all kinds of implicit biases. But one of the things we push — You Gain is an example of co-creation. Where you have teachers and principals who are involved in the building and designing, you mitigate the kinds of issues and worries that we have about this. We do a lot of work on AI literacy — for teachers, for administrators, for students, and for parents. We often tell teachers, please be crew and not passengers in this effort. AI is here. It's going to sharpen every tech product you're using, whether you like it or not. We are pushing for transparency, so folks know it's in there and what it's doing. We push very well in our acceptable use policy that we created with the federal government, that if you want the AI to be removed, you have a right to have it removed. But you have to know it's there. You have to be an informed consumer, an informed user. You have to be crew, not passengers. So yes, there are real issues of bias. But fundamentally, if we have systems where learning science exists and the educators are part of the design process, you can mitigate a lot of the challenges and issues that we have in AI right now.

Vicki Davis: What you're saying is so important — that educators are part of the process. We just got on the other side of ISTE when we're recording this, and there's, you know, let's create this or let's create that. I always try to dig and find out — were there educators involved in this process? Because there's so much about teaching that someone who's not a teacher just does not know. Someone who hasn't had that student across the table like you've had, or like I've had — they just don't understand. As we move forward, that's just so important. As we finish up, are there any other challenges that you want to just say to the classroom teacher, to the IT coach, to the principal, who's moving forward with artificial intelligence but just has a little bit of anxiety in the pit of their stomach? “Oh no, this does things that I don't understand.”

Jean-Claude Brizard: We are pushing very hard, and ISTE is a partner in this effort, that everybody needs a coherent instructional system. It is about that particular system. The best relationship in education is between students, teachers, parents, and content. That is the work of education. Technology can accelerate, can enhance, but the technology comes after the fact. It does not design the instructional program. The technology supports. So what I tell people is: make sure you know what you want to teach first. Then bring the tech. And second, make sure the tech is certified. Safe, equitable, done in a way that is research-based. All of that is part of certifications that we produce at Digital Promise. ISTE produces them. CoSN — a lot of us do this kind of work. It's called the Tech Index at ISTE; we all use it. So we tell educators: make sure that what you're using is certified, because then you have a really good chance of this thing doing what it's promising to do. Because there's a lot of fluff, there's a lot of shiny objects, a lot of magical thinking that exists in the tech world. But let's make sure that it exists to serve the children who are in front of you. And the best way to do that is to make sure it is a certified product.

Vicki Davis: Excellent. Jean-Claude Brizard, President and CEO of Digital Promise. Thank you for coming on the show, and thank you for advocating for the way forward — because AI is here. It's not going anywhere. There are wise uses of AI. There are inappropriate uses of AI. As we all have these conversations moving forward, that's what needs to happen. We need to be partners together. So thanks for leading the way for us, Jean-Claude. And thanks for coming on the show.