Photo by Dreame Vacuum Cleaner on Unsplash

Indoor insects often appear when seasonal changes create easy access to food, water, and shelter. Warm weather may bring fruit flies near produce, while cooler temperatures can send other insects toward protected indoor spaces. Everyday household habits make a noticeable difference. Regular cleaning, moisture control and quick repairs help remove the conditions that allow small pest problems to grow.

A seasonal routine doesn’t need to involve cleaning the entire house every weekend. Focus on the places where crumbs, standing water and clutter tend to collect.

Start with food and kitchen cleanup

Wipe counters after meals and sweep beneath the table, especially if young children tend to leave crumbs behind. Store cereal, flour, rice and pet food in containers with tight-fitting lids. Open bags and cardboard packages can provide both food and hiding spots.

Take kitchen trash outside regularly and rinse recycling containers before putting them in the bin. These household pest prevention tips also recommend cleaning spills promptly and checking food storage areas. During warmer months, keep ripe fruit in the refrigerator or use it within a few days. A forgotten banana or sticky juice spot can attract insects surprisingly quickly.

Track down moisture and breeding areas

Small flying insects often gather near sinks, houseplants, and drains because damp organic material can support their development. If they appear around produce, inspect fruit bowls and recycling. If they hover near potted plants, let the top layer of soil dry before watering again and empty any water left in saucers.

Location offers a useful clue. Homeowners trying to learn how to get rid of gnats should first identify the insect and inspect likely breeding sources. Clean sink strainers, garbage disposals and drain openings thoroughly. Repair dripping faucets too. A slow leak beneath a cabinet can keep wood and stored items damp long after the surrounding kitchen looks dry.

Seal the routes insects use

Inspect screens, doors and windows at the start of spring and again before cold weather arrives. Replace torn screening and add weatherstripping where daylight is visible around an exterior door. Caulk narrow gaps around utility lines, window frames and baseboards according to the material and product directions.

Pay close attention to items brought into the house. Grocery boxes, storage bins and secondhand furniture deserve a quick inspection before they reach bedrooms or living areas. Packages can be opened in an entryway, with the cardboard recycled promptly. Firewood and outdoor equipment should stay outside or in a suitable storage area until needed, since insects may shelter in cracks and folds.

Give bedrooms and storage spaces attention

Bedrooms may not seem like obvious insect hot spots, but luggage, fabric piles and crowded storage create plenty of hiding places. Vacuum along baseboards, under beds and around upholstered furniture. Empty the vacuum outside when practical, then wash bedding on the hottest setting the fabric allows.

Travel calls for a few extra habits. Inspect luggage before unpacking and keep worn clothing contained until it can be washed. The EPA’s bed bug prevention tips advise reducing clutter and checking secondhand furniture before bringing it home. Avoid relying on foggers as a quick fix. Careful inspection and early identification provide much clearer direction.

Adjust your routine with the seasons

Spring is a good time to repair screens, inspect window frames, and clean beneath large appliances. During summer, empty trash more often and watch produce for signs of overripening. Fall calls for sealing exterior gaps before temperatures drop, while winter offers a chance to sort crowded closets and discard damaged cardboard boxes.

Keep the routine manageable by attaching tasks to things your family already does. Check houseplant saucers on watering day, inspect pantry shelves when groceries arrive, and clean drains during the weekly kitchen reset. If insects continue appearing after food, moisture and entry points have been addressed, record where and when you see them. That simple pattern can reveal the overlooked plant, drain or package behind the problem.

The post Seasonal Home Hygiene: Simple Habits to Deter Indoor Insects appeared first on Dad of Divas.

One of the episode’s central themes is being truly present. Arpan Shah opens up about his journey as a dad navigating dual custody, and how—even when parenting comes with logistical and emotional hurdles—intentionally showing up matters more than perfection. He shares the powerful impact of simple, everyday rituals: from regular FaceTime check-ins and nighttime meditation to asking thoughtful questions like, “How did you help someone today?” or “What new thing did you learn?”

Another key takeaway is the importance of leading by example. Children learn more from their parents’ behaviors than their words. Arpan Shah explains how volunteering at school, coaching basketball, and making time for shared hobbies like hiking and music aren’t just fun—they show his daughter that she is valued and supported, while modeling lifelong curiosity and resilience.

Honesty and forgiveness are woven throughout the conversation. Both Dr. Christopher Lewis and Arpan Shah talk about the inevitable mistakes that come with parenting. The real magic, they suggest, happens when we use those moments to communicate openly, learn together, and even let our daughters teach us a thing or two about empathy.

The episode is full of practical advice for fathers who want to build a deep, trusting relationship with their daughters, such as:

• Prioritizing quality time over material things or work distractions
• Supporting your child’s interests—from robotics and coding to sports and music
• Establishing meaningful routines and traditions
• Creating space for honest, two-way conversations—even when they’re tough
• Focusing on presence instead of perfection

If you’re looking for real stories and actionable insights to help you on your fatherhood journey, this podcast is for you. Tune in for inspiration, support, and a reminder that your heart already knows the way—sometimes, you just need to be still, listen, and be present.

Subscribe today and start strengthening your bond. Listen to the latest episode of “The Dad and Daughter Connection” now!

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to Work together on these relationships that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:02]:
And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for coming back every week, for you putting yourself out there, for wanting to continue to keep learning, to keep growing, and to keep being present for your daughters. Because that’s what it’s all about. Each one of us has to put in the work, put in the time to be able to do what we can to be able to help our daughters grow into the women that they’re becoming. But also, we need to put in the time for ourselves to be able to be the fathers that we want to be. And that’s why this show exists. This show exists because I want to provide you with resources that are going to help you, give you some tools for your toolbox that’ll help you to be that dad that you want to be. As you know, I’ve got 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:44]:
I know you’ve got daughters. And I love being able to allow for you every week to learn something new from new people that can provide you with some of the experiences that they’ve had. in their life. Because every one of us as fathers is going to father in a different way. But we can learn from each other and take little pieces here and there to be able to help us be even better dads in the future. That’s why every week I bring you a different guest, a different person with different experiences. And this week we’ve got another great guest. Arpan Shah is with us today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:15]:
And Arpan is a, actually a past guest of another podcast that I used to do called Dads with Daughters. And I was really excited to be able to ask him to come back to join us and to, and to have us have him back on to talk with us about his own journey as a father. And I’m really excited to introduce him to you. Arpan, thanks so much for being here today.

Arpan Shah [00:02:38]:
Thanks for having me, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:39]:
I’m really excited to be able to have you here today and for you to share some of the experiences that you’ve had. I always start these interviews with an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you as a dad and talk about you and the relationship with your daughter. I guess first and foremost, as you think about the relationship that you have with your daughter, I know she’s 9. So as you think back to that relationship that you have with her, what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share together with your daughter? And what made it so special?

Arpan Shah [00:03:07]:
I think the special moments is now that she’s 9. My last podcast was when she was about 4 or 5. And I was in the midst of a really bad custody battle. And so I was going through all kinds of emotions that many fathers go through in the treacherous waters of family court. And so what has changed And what’s meaningful now is those little random hugs and bursts of, I love you, for no absolute reason, where you can see the unconditional love just pouring out of each other’s eyes and souls when you embrace your child. And knowing that you’re doing a good job, knowing that she’s smart, she’s got a good heart, and that she is a kind person, and she helps me out as well. And those are some of the most meaningful little milestones. Just if we can have that connection as the child grows and blooms, to nurture that and to have a hand in that is extremely humbling.

Arpan Shah [00:03:57]:
And something to be very grateful for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:58]:
As you think about what you just said, each one of us is trying to do things to intentionally build those moments and be able to have those opportunities to be able to connect with our daughters. What are some intentional ways that you’ve worked to strengthen your bond with your daughter, especially during challenging times?

Arpan Shah [00:04:16]:
Well, recently, as she’s gotten older, this is much different, as I have not pondered these questions you’ve asked for some time now, is There is a struggle when she goes from home to home. Our parenting schedule is such where she is 7 days with me with a break in the middle where there’s a date night with the other parent and with her mother. And then on 7 days with her mom, I have a date night in the middle of the week as well. So during those times, there are FaceTime calls every day. And then we do a check-in. We meditate or pray every night before going to sleep. And the way I started that was a count to 10, just a breathing to 10 where you clear your mind for those 10 seconds. And I kind of assist her in doing so.

Arpan Shah [00:04:59]:
So, and we’ll take deep breaths, we’ll hold them, we’ll let them out, and we’ll try to clear ourselves of all our thoughts and whatever might be on our minds. We just clear it. And it’s just me and her, her voice and mine. And then we find peace. And then we touch base every day where that grows. I can get into that a little further, but I think that’s something that everybody should do is just unwind with your child and debrief. How was your day today? What were some of your best moments of the day? How have you helped somebody today? What did you learn today? Those kind of questions are very important to ask. And then getting a habit of that, it keeps it in your mind throughout the day.

Arpan Shah [00:05:35]:
It helps you have a more positive impact as a parent. And then the child ponders those questions a lot more than you might think. Children learn more from behaviors than what you tell them to do. So it’s important for you to exhibit that as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]:
And following up with that, you talked a little bit about the fact that getting her back onto a routine and moving from routine to routine, and some fathers like yourself have a similar type of a family dynamic that has to happen based on time with mom, time with dad, you know, whatever the situation is. And you said that you’ve tried some different things that have worked, maybe some things that didn’t work. For other fathers that are in dual custody type of situations like that, what’s some advice that you would give them to be able to help the child to be able to maneuver from environment to environment?

Arpan Shah [00:06:21]:
There’s a couple of things that we can do to help the transitions. The most important being Don’t badmouth the other parent when the child is around. That’s very important. You want to love the child more than you might have some grievances with the other parent because that child is half you and half the other. And so it’s important to know that if the child hears that, it’s heartbreaking because the child is part of both and it’s confusing as well. So it’s important not to do that. On the contrary, if you are fortunate enough to have a good relationship, it’s important to maybe just watch the child interact— you both interact politely. respectfully with each other.

Arpan Shah [00:06:57]:
And then maybe do an exchange at a playground where you’re both present for a little while, things like that. In the beginning, attorneys can really make things complicated. So I would have imaginary phone calls with the other parent to show that, hey, you know, we’re laughing, we’re good. And it felt— made her feel really good growing up. I think it’s important for dads to be present, not be on your phone. And you know what, work may come in the future, spend time with your child. When you’re older, you’re not going to look back and wish that you had worked the extra hour to get that overtime pay or whatever it is. If you’re in that situation.

Arpan Shah [00:07:28]:
I know it’s easier for some than others. But I have turned down opportunities, and even relationships and commitments to spend time. And I’ve never regretted that. As far as spending time goes, it’s like, what do I do? I mean, if you look in the marketplace, or the— or even TV shows, it’s changing slowly. But usually, historically, it’s frustrating to me that the dad is more of a sort of like a bumbling idiot, if you will, in these TV shows like Al Bundy and Homer Simpson, and etc., etc. So it’s important for you to find those positive figures or exhibit that yourself. Doing things, learning something together, taking a cooking class with the child, putting together one of those crafts like a mechanical toy or Lego set, building it together. Those things you’re creating together with your creation.

Arpan Shah [00:08:14]:
And that’s one of the reasons I wrote Daddy Goes to Work, my book, because it’s a book that I was looking for when she was young. Because she’ll grab your leg and be like, Dad, where are you going? Dada, no! And then she’ll whine. And you have a schedule, you have to be at work, and the kid has no idea where you’ve abandoned her for 8, 9, 10 hours. So in a good connection with one’s father, especially girls, it’s important for their sense of joy and self-confidence later in life. And more and more research and science is showing this and proving that to be true. A father’s love is no less, especially with a girl, although it’s also prevalent with males too. So anyways, Daddy Goes to Work is what I wrote, and I’m glad I did. Every child that reads it has a better connection and makes the world a better place, in my opinion, one kid at a time.

Arpan Shah [00:09:00]:
It’s a story of a father that goes to work and explains to a young child— it’s more for kids under 7— what happens in the day and how much the father loves her, and that he’ll always come back. And that message is very important, and it’s nonexistent until now.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:13]:
You know, and we talk a lot more about that book in the first interview that I mentioned. I’ll put a link in the notes today so you can learn more about the book and kind of the impetus behind that to be able to learn a little bit more. One of the questions that I have, and it goes back to kind of what you were talking about in regard to The work that we all do, many of us are working full-time. We’re trying our best to provide for our families. We’re wearing a lot of hats as we are being fathers, and we have to try to balance all of those different things. Talk to me about how you balance guiding your daughter while also giving her the ability and the independence to grow into the person that she’s becoming.

Arpan Shah [00:09:49]:
So I incorporate her with my day. I will take vacation days like many, but instead of sitting around or going on a guys trip, I’ll volunteer at her school. I’m involved. I’m her basketball coach for the 3rd graders last year. As a children’s book author, I’ll do author readings in the school. I’ll help any way I can. So I make myself known. And I’ve always noticed when I was a kid and other parents would volunteer, I always thought it was so cool.

Arpan Shah [00:10:12]:
I thought it was so special. And I could see it in her eyes and heart, how joy she gets seeing me in her classroom. She’s like, whoa, what are you doing here? And then now people have gotten to know me as Mr. Shah. Like, she thinks I work there. So that’s really special. So I’m very involved. And I encourage every father to do that.

Arpan Shah [00:10:29]:
Show up at their appointments, dentist, doctor. It’s important for you to be there. These norms are changing. And especially in the future with AI and stuff, I think fathers are more involved now than ever in the last century, at least, and volunteering, doing activities together, and just being present. Or, and if you can’t, debriefing with her, asking her specific questions on her day. Because young children can be very vague. It’s like, yeah, it was good. It was fine.

Arpan Shah [00:10:53]:
What’d you do? Nothing. You know, like, well, did you play with any friends? And back to those questions that I mentioned earlier, have— how did you help somebody today? What’s something new that you learned today? What is something that you need to work on? How can I help you? What was your favorite part of your day with me if you had spent the day? So those are all very— make things more meaningful. And then when you go putting action to your thoughts, you’ll be surprised how your soul will carry you forward in this relationship.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]:
Now, none of us are infallible. We’re human. We make mistakes. And I guess as you think about yourself as a father in working with your daughter, what’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father And what did you learn from it about fostering better communication with your own daughter?

Arpan Shah [00:11:35]:
Well, I learned something new every day. I just never stopped looking for ways to improve. This is a very common thing. The way my custody battle started, it was my child was removed from the state and we kind of saw it coming and she was held without contact for an extended period. So I think that’s why I’m so intense and present in her life right now, because I was so connected to her. I’m the oldest out of like 9 cousins and we were raised very close together. Like I was in Chicago. They’re in Indiana, and we would visit every weekend.

Arpan Shah [00:12:03]:
So they were like siblings, but I was the oldest. And my best friend in the family has always been the youngest one. Like I said, I’m a big kid. I love goofing around. And I missed that. But I won that pretty quickly. But it was very difficult, very traumatic. And that kind of helped me be extremely present.

Arpan Shah [00:12:18]:
I did some positive parenting classes that were free I found online, just voluntarily. I talked to other dads. I went to some parent mentoring stuff. And I’m just always trying to be a better dad or make other fathers better. I currently help freelance as a divorce coach and a parenting guide for fathers and some mothers too. I’ve helped a lot of people out, so I learned from their experiences. I learned from mine. I’m trying to think.

Arpan Shah [00:12:40]:
We’re human, like you said, so you can get angry sometimes, or you want to make sure that you’re always communicating so that you can grow together. In relationships, you learn when you fall and from when you rise. So you want to make sure you’re there to carry her up, and then you want to empower your child to lift you up when she notices things and to have honest conversations with— because you are not a god.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:00]:
One other question, which is really going to some of the things that you do, because you’re already talking about things that you’re doing to be able to show up for your daughter. What do you do intentionally to make your daughter feel valued and heard?

Arpan Shah [00:13:12]:
I’m always present. I think presence is what’s important for fathers more than ever. I’m there before she’s awake. I’m there to put her down. When I’m picking her up at school, I’m, I’m on time. I’m there taking her to activities and not just leaving, checking out at the playground. I’m not just leaving her at the playground sitting on the bench on my phone. I’m interacting.

Arpan Shah [00:13:29]:
You know, while I still can, while I have a good back. And it’s the engaging, it’s the wanting to be there, it’s the presence. And I think as long as you’re present, the love that you have for your child will tell you where to go next.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:40]:
And before we started the show today, one of the things that you told me was the story of the conversation that you had with your daughter about teasing. I want you to tell that story because I think that really connects with this question as well.

Arpan Shah [00:13:53]:
I can be immature sometimes, and then we tease each other, but I got to realize that one time she was joking around with me, and then I can’t remember I don’t remember exactly the situation. It was some time ago, but I do remember what she said afterwards. She sat me down like she was my mom and she’s like, hey, if you treat somebody and do blah, blah, blah to them, how would that make you feel? And then I was like, ah, man, I wouldn’t feel very good at all. And she’s like, well, that’s how I feel. And I was just like, oh my God. I apologized. It was just so sweet to see her put me in my place and the maturity. I was just so proud of her.

Arpan Shah [00:14:27]:
Even when she was 3, she had those kind of tendencies. One time we had people over, me and my wife, and And then it was about 9 PM. So what she did— and we had music playing, we had some food on the dining table, and people were kind of scattered throughout the condo. And then she walks up out of her room, turns the music off, slams her door before she says, I’m going to sleep, everybody be quiet. And then the mic just dropped and everybody was like, oh my God, that was so beautiful. It was so awesome. And then, I mean, eventually, you know, people got quiet and they were trailing out anyways. There were other children there.

Arpan Shah [00:15:00]:
So I just thought that was really cool. She’s like 9 going on 90.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:04]:
So, you know, every one of us as fathers also try to support our daughter’s dreams and passions. How are you supporting your daughter’s dreams and passions?

Arpan Shah [00:15:14]:
I’ve exposed her in her earlier years to so many different activities. We’ve tried all kinds of sports. She did love basketball. I didn’t think she would because probably that I was one of the coaches there. So I’m really proud of that. And we play every chance we get. And when we find a park, I keep a ball in my car. Something else is she’s really taken a liking to building and programming and coding.

Arpan Shah [00:15:36]:
Like engineering, whether it be Legos or Roblox, Minecraft. I’m not a big fan of Roblox, but there’s also editing videos and sounds. I play several instruments myself, so that way she’s become somewhat of an audiophile. She has an appreciation for good music and the technology that’s behind it. Her school is a performing arts and fine arts magnet, so they do have a music technology class that they start at a young age, which I thought was cool. I didn’t have that when I was young. I had a recorder, but I found a place called iCode. Where they did like a YouTube Creator Week where you modify sound waves and add text to video and make, make like video editing basically.

Arpan Shah [00:16:15]:
And she just loved it. After school, she pulled up my laptop, downloaded some app, and started finding stock videos and footage, adding text, and then finding music clips, uploading them, and doing that. And she’s just turned 9, and I can’t even do some of this stuff. So I was very impressed, and I felt grateful that, hey, I put in this effort. I got her into this camp over the summer instead of something else or just sitting at home. And she’s learned something new that she’s passionate about. The way I found it was a trial class in robotics where you kind of code a robot to like make a left turn, go straight, because, you know, the future is AI. So we gotta— I don’t know what the future holds, but I do know that you can’t go wrong with this stuff for now at least.

Arpan Shah [00:16:54]:
And it’s good to have a background in it. So I’m looking forward to seeing if I can get her into something else like our Battle of the Bots. That’s the— that’s something coming up in August, which is a week-long course about programming a robot. The other student programs one. And then you fight and then you see who wins and you learn something and you have a fun time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:10]:
And what’s one way that you show your daughter that she can always count on you?

Arpan Shah [00:17:13]:
When she confesses something to me or says something serious, she knows that I have her back. Like if there’s some bullying happening or if she gets in trouble, there’s one way to discipline. And then, but in private, you want to give the advice and know that you’re on her side, that you are supported, that she is not alone. Even though there are going to be consequences for her behaviors and actions, you have to explain that to her. You can’t just be like, you’re going timeout, or Like, you know, I’m taking your tablet away for a week or whatever else you do to discipline your child. You want to explain that this was you, this is your choice. You can choose to do this or you can choose to do that. You have to give them the power.

Arpan Shah [00:17:50]:
And then once you give them the choice and they make the wrong choice, they’ll understand that there are specific consequences to making those choices in their little minds. And that’s how they’re gonna learn it. If you just yell at them, they’re just gonna learn to resist slightly and outsmart. But, and kids are smart, so you have to be on top of it and you have to be present and you have to be involved in everything we’ve set up to this point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:10]:
And what’s a tradition or routine that you’ve created together that strengthens your bond?

Arpan Shah [00:18:15]:
It would have to be the evening meditation. And we did jiu-jitsu for 5 years. You know, we need to empower our girls, especially if they’re not bullies. If they are, then don’t empower them. But now she’s recently taken a liking to boxing. She loves it. Actually, as a bachelor, I might— I’m actually shopping for a 40-pound punching bag to put in my living room. Between my living room and dining room.

Arpan Shah [00:18:37]:
So I’m really happy that she loves it so much. And it’s something good, something fitness-oriented. I go to the gym, I make sure I bring her with me. Gyms have daycares with toys and fun stuff. So it’s important, like I said earlier, kids learn more from behaviors. You can tell a kid that it’s important to work out and eat healthy, or you can demonstrate that. And then she enjoys doing push-ups, mountain climbers, bear crawls, and all kinds of stuff just by watching me. And then you break a sweat, you come into the break room or the childcare area sweating, and you’re like, hey, just checking in on you.

Arpan Shah [00:19:07]:
How are you doing? You having fun, great. And then you go back. And I think those are really important.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:11]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Arpan Shah [00:19:18]:
I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:18]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughter?

Arpan Shah [00:19:22]:
Blissful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:22]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you’ve ever received?

Arpan Shah [00:19:27]:
Always be honest with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:28]:
What’s one activity that you and your daughter love doing together?

Arpan Shah [00:19:32]:
Hiking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:32]:
If you could give your daughter one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Arpan Shah [00:19:36]:
Pain is mandatory. Suffering is optional.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:38]:
What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Arpan Shah [00:19:41]:
Resilience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:42]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Arpan Shah [00:19:50]:
Your heart already knows what to do. Cut out your programming that you might have had from your parents and the parents before and be present with an open heart and mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:58]:
Well, Arpan, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for being here today, for sharing what you shared. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Arpan Shah [00:20:06]:
Well, they can Google Arpan V. Shah, A-R-P-A-N, and my book is Daddy Goes to Work. You can also find me on Facebook as A.V. Shah. It’s just capital letters, A.V. together, space, Shah.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]:
Well, again, Arpan, thanks so much for being here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you again, and I wish you all the best.

Arpan Shah [00:20:24]:
Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity. It’s been a long time. Always a pleasure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:28]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:58]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by so fast. I’m gonna go get some sleep. Time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be.

Musical Outro Performer [00:21:51]:
Be the best dad you can be.

The post Presence Over Perfection: Creating Meaningful Dad-Daughter Connections appeared first on Dad of Divas.

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Juggling work, school runs, and family activities can leave everyone feeling a bit frazzled. Our homes should be a sanctuary from the outside world, a place where the whole family can decompress and reconnect. By intentionally creating spaces designed for relaxation, you can really boost your family’s overall well-being and build a more peaceful household. And good news: it doesn’t require a massive renovation! Often, small, thoughtful changes can make the biggest difference in turning a chaotic house into a calming home.

Designing Your Relaxation Oasis

Let’s start by carving out a specific spot in your home just for chilling out. This doesn’t have to be an entire room. It could be a comfy armchair tucked into a living room corner, a window seat with a view of the backyard, or even a cozy nook under the stairs. The main idea is to create a space that tells your brain, “Okay, time to unwind.” Fill this area with comfort in mind: think plush pillows, a soft blanket, and a small table for a book or a warm drink.

Lighting also plays a big role. Ditch those harsh overhead lights for softer options like a floor lamp with a warm-toned bulb or some string lights. Personal touches, like family photos or a favorite piece of art, can make the space feel uniquely yours. For more specific home design ideas, you can find great inspiration to help you tailor a corner of your home into a perfect retreat for you and your family.

Creating a Calm Indoor Environment

Beyond just one “oasis,” you can sprinkle little bits of calm all through your home. One of the best ways to do this is to declutter. A tidy, organized space cuts down on visual noise and can have a surprisingly powerful effect on how you feel mentally. Start small by tackling just one drawer or shelf at a time so you don’t get overwhelmed.

You can also use scent to set the mood. An essential oil diffuser with lavender or chamomile can help everyone relax, while a simple scented candle can make a room feel extra cozy. It’s really helpful to learn how to create a calm environment by managing these sensory inputs. And don’t forget about sound! Try putting together a family playlist of calming music to play during dinner or before bed, replacing the constant background noise of the television.

Outdoor Spaces for Unwinding

Don’t overlook the potential of your outdoor areas. A porch, patio, or even a small backyard can become a wonderful extension of your living space. Spending time in nature is a proven stress-reducer, and you don’t have to go far to feel the benefits. A simple setup with a couple of comfortable chairs, an outdoor rug, and some potted plants can create an inviting spot for morning coffee or evening chats.

If you have the room, a hammock is a classic choice for ultimate relaxation. Stringing up some outdoor lights can make the area usable and magical after the sun goes down. Encouraging the kids to spend time in this space, maybe with a book or a quiet game, helps them learn to appreciate moments of peace and quiet away from screens.

Ensuring Your Hot Tub is Ready

For families lucky enough to have one, a hot tub is a fantastic way to relax and connect. The warm, bubbling water can soothe sore muscles and provide a unique setting for conversation. It offers a screen-free zone where you can chat with your kids about their day or simply enjoy a quiet soak together under the stars.

But here’s the thing: a hot tub that isn’t properly maintained can quickly become a source of stress rather than relief. To make sure your spa is always ready for a spontaneous family soak, consistent hot tub maintenance is key. Keeping the water balanced, the filters clean, and the system running smoothly is essential for a safe and enjoyable experience. Professional services can handle all the technical bits, so all you have to do is lift the cover and relax.

Simple Rituals for Daily Calm

Creating relaxing spaces is only half the battle; you also have to build the habits to actually use them. Try integrating simple rituals into your family’s routine to make relaxation a regular practice. This could be a “quiet 15” every day, where each family member spends 15 minutes in their favourite quiet spot, reading, drawing, or just resting. Keeping these routines flexible and enjoyable can also help you keep kids’ schedules fun and stress-free, rather than making relaxation feel like another task they have to complete.

Another idea is to have a weekly family soak in the hot tub to catch up without distractions. You could also establish a “tech-free” hour each evening where everyone puts their devices away and spends time together in one of your relaxing zones. The key is to be consistent without making the routine too rigid. These small, repeated actions help build a family culture that truly values rest and connection, making your home a real haven.

The post Boosting Family Well-being with Relaxing Home Spaces appeared first on Dad of Divas.

Listening With Intent

One of the most powerful themes from this episode is the importance of truly listening. Olivia Haviland reflects on her high school years, sharing how her dad’s willingness to listen without judgment made her feel seen and valued. Rather than resorting to harsh discipline, Matt Haviland chose to open a dialogue, striving to understand Olivia’s perspective and guide rather than simply correct. This practice, inspired by a national survey in which teens wished their dads would “listen more,” is a reminder for all fathers: be present, and let your daughter’s voice be heard.

Meaningful Moments Big and Small

Connection isn’t always about the grand gestures. Matt Haviland and Olivia share memories ranging from epic squirt gun battles to heartfelt college essays, and even “loud and obnoxious” declarations of love at McDonald’s. Whether it’s a shared joke, a drive together, or simply showing up at a dance recital, these moments accumulate into a reservoir of trust and comfort. As Olivia Haviland puts it, time spent together outweighs any material gift.

Guidance and Independence

Balancing guidance with independence is a recurring theme. Matt Haviland, a former single dad, emphasizes being intentional with the time he shared with Olivia, supporting her dreams while encouraging self-reflection and growth. For Olivia, this support translated into confidence in her career and life decisions—bolstered by her dad’s encouragement to think long-term and his faith-based guidance.

Real Advice for Real Dads

This episode wraps with practical wisdom: prioritize time with your kids, apologize for your mistakes, and let your actions reflect your family values. Both Matt Haviland and Olivia Haviland urge dads everywhere to listen deeply and value presence over presents.

Ready to strengthen your bond with your daughter? Listen to this heartfelt episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection and discover how every day can be an opportunity to connect, grow, and become the dad she needs.

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TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to work together to build those connections that we want to have with our daughters one day at a time. You know, I love it that you come back every week because that shows a lot about who you want to be as a father, but also who you want to be and what type of relationship you want to have, relationship that you want to have with your daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:16]:
And it takes time, it takes effort, and it takes work. And we have to keep showing up. And it is so important for us to be able to put the work in for ourselves, but also put in the work with our daughters to be able to have that solid relationship that we wanna have. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week, I love being able to bring you different people with different experiences that allow for you to be able to learn, to grow, to get some tools for your toolbox, and to be able to take those and use them for the future. So I am really excited today to have a, I’m gonna say a return guest. It’s not really a return guest on this show, but Matt Haviland, is with us. And Matt and his daughter are with us today, his daughter Olivia.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]:
And Matt is a past guest of a past podcast that I did called Dads with Daughters about 4 years ago. And I’m really excited to be able to have Matt on, but also this time his daughter Olivia, to be able to talk about the relationship that they’ve been able to build together and also what they’ve learned along the way to share that with you. Matt, Olivia, thanks so much for being here today.

Matt Haviland [00:02:26]:
Yeah, Chris, thanks again for having me back. And this is a really It’s a really special moment to have Olivia with me today. So say hi.

Olivia Haviland [00:02:33]:
Hi.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:33]:
I’m really excited to have you both here. And I want to go back a little bit because I know, Olivia, you’re 20. You know, you’re an adult now. You’re doing the life thing. You’re doing the work thing. You’re out there. And as you think back to the relationship that you’ve been able to build with your dad, what’s one thing that your dad did for you that helped you and made you feel truly seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Olivia Haviland [00:03:02]:
Um, I would say in high school, I was struggling a lot with my mental health. And then I was getting myself into a little bit of trouble. And he didn’t ground me. Well, there was like boundaries where he grounded me a little bit, but he was more open to like listening as of like why I did the things that I did, instead of just like not hearing me out and just screaming at me, taking my phone, not letting me hang out with my friends and everything. So that meant a lot to me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:32]:
And Matt, I guess, take me back to that point for you, because I know you had your own journey as a youth and went through your own stuff. And we talked about, we talked about a lot of that in the first interview that we did. So talk to me about that for you and hearing that from Olivia and how you had to be able to kind of take what you learned to be able to help her?

Matt Haviland [00:03:57]:
Yeah, I was very grateful for a lot of the experiences that I had, not only personally but also professionally or through mentorship as well. I guess where I can go with that, Chris, is Olivia was born when I was 30 years old, so I wasn’t super young. So by the time she’s in high school, you know, I’m in my mid-40s. I would like to say I’ve learned a few things over those 14 or 15 years of parenting her, but I also Just like a lot of people, either parents or— I, I work with fathers also in a professional setting. You know, we learn a lot from our own previous experiences. So the things my own parents did or did not do, so learning how to correct that and apply that as much as possible. Plus working in a fatherhood field for so long, I’ve obviously picked up tips, either again things that I’ve taught guys or other men have taught me as well. But it really becomes a lot different instead of me just telling a dad what to do when I actually have to live this out.

Matt Haviland [00:04:54]:
But I think I could attribute a lot of it to— I was at a conference many years ago, probably 2010, 2012, and they revealed a survey result, a national survey, and they said all these teen kids wish their dad would fill in the blank. And the number one answer was listen more. And that was something that, just like Olivia just said, instead of flying off the handle, telling her how much trouble she’s in, let me hear her out first.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:18]:
Yeah.

Matt Haviland [00:05:19]:
And then we can go from there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:20]:
Now I know that a lot of times, Matt, we as fathers are trying to build those moments, those meaningful moments that connect us with our kids. And what is one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with Olivia and what made it so special?

Matt Haviland [00:05:35]:
Okay, she said the water fight, so clearly that must have been one. It was April Fool’s Day, probably about 4 or 5 years ago. She pranked me in the house and that turned out to a full-blown squirt gun war in the house, actually Super Soakers in the house.

Olivia Haviland [00:05:49]:
Well, I pranked him once and then he forgot to take the tape off the faucet and pranked himself again.

Matt Haviland [00:05:55]:
Yeah, she did the old, you know, she tied the rubber band around the sprayer on the kitchen sink. So when I turned on the kitchen sink faucet, it hit me, and then I shut it off and hit myself again. And yes, that is a very— we’re gonna remember that forever, having a squirt gun fight in the house. Not recommended. My wife had something to say about it when she got home, but it was very meaningful. Another really meaningful moment on a more emotional level was a couple years ago, Olivia wrote a paper for college, and they were to choose somebody that’s inspired them inspired them, and she wrote the paper about me. And it starts out with the words, I am who I am today because of my dad. And I don’t think, Christopher, I don’t think there’s any greater words that a parent can hear than something like that.

Matt Haviland [00:06:34]:
And she went on to say a lot of like what she just said about me being there and communicating with her mom and just so many other things. So that was a special moment. The fact that of all the times I’ve screwed up as a dad over, at that point, over 18 years, and then just to receive the gift like that that says, no, Dad, you did a lot of screwing up, but you did it right as well. And Really, that meant so much. To this day, there’s no greater gift I’ve ever been given than that paper.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:59]:
And Olivia, what are some things that you wish your dad had done differently when it came to building your relationship?

Olivia Haviland [00:07:05]:
I don’t know. I can’t really think of much because from our situation of like me growing up, it was really hard to make time to see me and everything, but he was doing all that he could. From what I noticed, I would just say maybe less of the dad jokes for sure. On a serious note, I can only flash back to when I was little and I wish he learned to cook more things rather than turkey burger and rice and sometimes mac and cheese.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:34]:
That’s fair.

Matt Haviland [00:07:35]:
I was a bachelor for 29 years. Okay, so but just for your audience though, to just kind of backtrack our story, I was a single dad, Olivia’s mom and I never married. So I was a single father for the first 9 years of her life too. So just trying to navigate what that was like raising a child in 2 different homes.

Olivia Haviland [00:07:52]:
Because rules would would be different at my mom’s and then rules would be different here. I would say like not anything that he could do different, but like something I take back is like when we would get in arguments, I would like not talk to him for the rest of the night. But like, he— I’m thankful that you respected my space, but I kind of wish you would have like pushed me a little bit to like talk more. But other than that, I can’t really think of anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:16]:
Now, Matt, all of us are trying to help our daughters to be able to become the people that they’re becoming. Talk to me about how you you balanced guiding Olivia while also giving her the independence to grow into the person that she has become?

Matt Haviland [00:08:31]:
Yeah, speaking from personal experience, so being a single father— and I’ve often defined single dads especially as it could be a man who has full custody, maybe it’s split custody, maybe it’s minimal custody— I would be what was defined as a non-custodial parent, meaning I had less than 50% of the parenting time. Because of that, I was really intentional about the time I had with her. But I think that’s just a good lesson for any parent, is to be intentional intentional. I have the privilege of working with new first-time fathers in some of the work that I do, and I’ll talk to them about making time for their kids. You know, there’s a great quote that says, you’ll never have the time for your kids, you have to make time. There’s no other way. And really putting that into practice, um, you know, you go to parks— and this isn’t to shame anybody listening, but it’s a good reminder— and you’ll see all the parents looking down at their phones while the kids are playing. And it’s about getting engaged in their life.

Matt Haviland [00:09:24]:
And I think for having Olivia, because I didn’t have her all the time. I did not want to take her time— the time with her for granted. But any— even for parents that are raising their kids together in the same household, I mean, the reminder still goes that there’s no greater gift that we can give our kids than our time. And being present isn’t just being in the same room, it’s being, you know, mentally and emotionally present. And I know there’s probably a lot of people that have heard that before, but I think it’s true. I mean, just to be there, to be involved with raising kids— yes, you’re going to have the serious moments, But then also, it’s just kind of spending time together. Maybe it’s going for a walk, and maybe at first it’s a goofy conversation, or, or it’s, uh, it gets more serious. When I had Olivia, the average drive home to her mom was about 15 or 20 minutes each way.

Matt Haviland [00:10:09]:
So every time I picked her up, I mean, that’s 20 minutes of car time that we can kind of talk a little bit. So I think it was not just anything one specific, but it was just that continual over and over and over for 18 years of trying to be as intentional as I can, listening to her, correcting mistakes when I, I can, and then Everybody will say it, she is a carbon copy of me. She is literally— I mean, she’s cuter than me, but just, I mean, personality-wise, she is a carbon copy.

Olivia Haviland [00:10:36]:
We stand the same.

Matt Haviland [00:10:37]:
Yeah, our mannerisms are all the same. But really understanding that too, that I’m looking in a mirror here. So when I am raising her, disciplining her, engaging with her, how would I react to that as well?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:49]:
And speaking to that, Olivia, how has your relationship with your dad influenced the way in which you navigate life, relationships, or challenges? challenges today?

Olivia Haviland [00:10:59]:
Um, I would say, I mean, definitely he— I obviously wasn’t alive, but he did struggle when he was a teenager and in his 20s. And I feel like when I got into that point, when I was getting in some trouble my sophomore year of high school and everything, just like for him to know exactly what it was like to do the same things helped him guide me out of it instead of, like I said earlier, yelling at me, screaming at me. He would actually like hear me out and be like, hey, I was in your position once and this is how I got through it. But he would also always bring faith into it and keep me strong in my faith. Like he would always end a conversation with a Bible verse or bring in a passage or a verse just to help me through something.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:47]:
Now, Matt, we talked about— Olivia’s just talking about some challenging times, and all of us go through those challenging times as we’re raising kids. There’s great times and there’s where you might hit rock bottom as well. And what are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Olivia, especially during those challenging times?

Matt Haviland [00:12:05]:
I’ve always had, since I’ve become a dad, and I am one to really— I’m a huge advocate for everyone to have a mentor. You know, I’ve always had a mentor. I wasn’t raised in a two-parent home. My parents were never married. My dad was minimally engaged in my life. So not having that strong father figure in my life, growing up and understanding what that’s like. But when I did become a dad, I’ve always had strong mentor men in my life in various capacities. Some might be in work, some might be in parenting, or whatever it may be.

Matt Haviland [00:12:38]:
So I think being able to talk it through with a mentor who also was a father, and maybe even perhaps depending on who it was, a grandfather— so a mentor just being somebody that’s a little older and has more experience And hearing that out. And Chris, there was a ton of mistakes along the way. I mean, I’m not going to lie. There was— I’ve had some really bad moments as parents, never in a, like, an abusive way or anything, but where I really dropped the ball. And just understand, I don’t ever want to feel like that again. Apologizing to her, admitting that I screwed up and doing my best not to go through that again. But by the time she was really struggling, especially in the late middle school, early high school years, again, by this point, I’m in my mid-40s. I had been parenting her for a long time.

Matt Haviland [00:13:22]:
So, I knew Olivia. I was able to read her cues. And, I understand that might be a little different in every family dynamic, but I was able to read her cues. And, the girl talks all the time. So, when Olivia’s quiet, there’s obviously there’s something going on. And, like she said, I mean, I was in some— my teen and 20s were some pretty dark years in my life and never wanting her to go through that. I struggled with substance abuse and a lot of other I didn’t go that far. No, but I’m just saying I didn’t want you to go that far.

Matt Haviland [00:13:53]:
So being able to kind of curb that beforehand. But there’s always— I think there also was a special bond. And again, this isn’t to take away from anybody in other family dynamics, but because I was a single father, when I had Olivia, it was me and Olivia. So for 9 years, it was just us. We were like a team, you know? And just to be able to read— and I mean, she’s my heart, and I wanted to in so many ways, give her what I was never given from an upbringing even though it wasn’t perfect because she was still being raised in 2 different homes. But nonetheless, giving her the holidays or the Christmases or the love—

Olivia Haviland [00:14:28]:
Dance recitals and games.

Matt Haviland [00:14:29]:
Yeah, attending. My dad made 2 of my baseball games over 12 years. And, I was at almost every game I could make for her or her dance recitals and understanding how important that is for her to look out in the crowd And to see me there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:41]:
You know, Olivia, earlier I asked your dad about how he worked to be able to provide you with that independence that you needed. Talk to me on your side of how your dad encouraged you to be confident and independent in your life.

Olivia Haviland [00:14:56]:
I would say he’s always been my biggest cheerleader, even if it’s loud and obnoxious at my games. Or there was one time he was saying how much he loved me in the middle of McDonald’s, just screaming it.

Matt Haviland [00:15:09]:
On purpose.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:10]:
On purpose.

Matt Haviland [00:15:11]:
To embarrass her on purpose.

Olivia Haviland [00:15:12]:
But I would say, like, he’s always been like, he’ll send me a, hey, good morning, I hope you have an amazing day. It’s not every day, but I think that’s what makes it more special is that it’ll be like out of the blue or it’ll be like a Bible verse or like I’ll tell him, I’m like, hey, I had a really bad day today. And then he’ll send me a Bible verse or be like, hey, I have time to call. I would say that’s really encouraging. And then also just like, you know, I’ll be at work and then he’ll show up and bring Dunkin’ or Subway, just like showing that even like if he can see me for 5 minutes, like it still matters. So that means a lot to me too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]:
And Matt, we talked before we started today about what Olivia is doing and she’s working in healthcare right now. And I guess as you have been fathering Olivia, how do you support Olivia in pursuing her passions and her dreams?

Matt Haviland [00:16:04]:
Great question. I, first of all, I’m very impressed because Olivia has a career focus already at 20. And I know that’s not rare, but I, at 20, I mean, I was completely in the opposite direction. So I’m already just so proud of her because, I mean, she is very motivated, she’s very determined, she has an excellent work ethic. I mean, she works hard and she really respects the job that she has, even if she doesn’t like it a lot. So, so to encourage her again— Yeah, she likes her job right now, so that’s good. But to encourage her, I would say again, just listening, kind of maybe as she’s talking, processing, like, okay, what’s this going to look like in your life? Is this going to require more schooling? Sometimes I ask her questions like, how do you see this playing out long-term? If you want to get advanced in your career, what’s that going to look like? How’s that going to affect the other areas of your life? And kind of just helping her think through. You know, she doesn’t have all the weight that, you know, we as adults have right now, you know, carrying a lot of mortgages or payments or, you know, other bigger obligations.

Matt Haviland [00:17:09]:
Not to minimize what she’s doing, but—

Olivia Haviland [00:17:10]:
Right.

Matt Haviland [00:17:11]:
But she has some opportunity and some room right now to really dream, like, hey, what do I want to do for a career? And if I do change my career, that’s okay. But she has tremendous skills. I think that’s one thing, is to let her know what skills she has. She’s definitely a people person. She has a hard work ethic. She’s a great communicator. So just kind of saying, hey, these are the things you’re really good at. So where would that fit for you in your career field?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:35]:
And Olivia, if you could spend an entire day with your dad doing anything, what would it look like?

Olivia Haviland [00:17:39]:
Oh, no. No signs, no dad jokes. That would be—

Matt Haviland [00:17:44]:
You gotta explain the signs.

Olivia Haviland [00:17:46]:
He is obsessed. I will be trying, like, you know, we go to a zoo, I want to see the animals, and he’s like, oh, I want to know where the animals lived, um, where they came from, how old are they, how many, like, claws do they have, how many teeth. Like, it doesn’t matter. Like, I just— I want to see the animals. And it kind of just began as, like, a running joke. Every time he sees a sign, he sends it to me. I reply with, I’m not reading that. But I would say a perfect day, honestly, I love our beach days because he’s very— I mean, we’re like the same person.

Olivia Haviland [00:18:19]:
Like, we don’t want to get out of the water, but we’ve always played stupid games like how many times can we catch the ball in a row throwing trick shots. And then like during COVID we were hitting a ball on our roof with a tennis racket, like, and made that like a whole summer competition. So I would say just like Like little games, like beach day getaway, just the two of us. And then probably Star Wars at the end. Star Wars are an old movie, but something we do like monthly.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:48]:
Sounds like a good day. Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6, 6 more questions. And I usually ask them just to dads, but I’m gonna ask both of you some different questions or questions for both of you. Uh, first and foremost, Olivia, what’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:04]:
Comforting.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:05]:
And Matt, what’s your word?

Matt Haviland [00:19:06]:
I’d say solid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:07]:
And Matt, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Matt Haviland [00:19:12]:
I think it’s honestly, it’s been in multiple forms and it’s what I’ve already mentioned. It’s just spending time with them. Other things can wait. And I’ve heard a million different quotes in that way, but it all boils down to spending undivided, just they got my attention or she has my attention. Everything else can wait and it’s just our time. So yeah, time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:33]:
And Olivia, what’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Olivia Haviland [00:19:37]:
I would honestly say, like, like he said earlier, the, like, talking me through it. Where can you see yourself from this? Let’s, you know, visualize what even is it gonna look like in a month versus 5 years. And I would say that’s gotten me a lot of places because before I make decisions now, I always, like, stop and think, like, hey, like, I may like it right now, but in 3 months, am I gonna like what I’m doing? In a year, am I gonna like what I’m doing? Am I gonna wanna be doing this when I’m older?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:06]:
Yeah.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:06]:
I’m 60 or 70 years old kind of thing. So I would say that’s gotten me far in a lot of places.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:12]:
Matt, what’s one activity that you and Olivia love doing together?

Matt Haviland [00:20:15]:
You’re gonna appreciate this one, Christopher. Going to University of Michigan football games.

Musical Outro Performer [00:20:20]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:21]:
And I’m gonna throw it back to you too, Olivia. And it doesn’t have to be the same thing. It’d be something different.

Olivia Haviland [00:20:25]:
Daddy-daughter dances or like donuts with dad or anything that’s like one-on-one mini golf, golf, and football games, definitely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:33]:
Matt, if you could give Olivia one life lesson in a single sentence, What would it be?

Matt Haviland [00:20:37]:
Love God, love others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:38]:
And Matt, what’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Matt Haviland [00:20:42]:
I think—

Olivia Haviland [00:20:43]:
The girl version of you.

Matt Haviland [00:20:45]:
That too. But I would say since becoming a dad, I think you learn how the word selfish feels strong, but I don’t think it’s out of line of when it’s just us. But when it was just me as a single dad or a single man versus becoming a father, it was all about me. I tell my new guys, I think I think being a parent drives you to a level of commitment to your children that would not be attained any other way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
And Olivia, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Olivia Haviland [00:21:16]:
I would say put aside anything that can wait, and then also listen before either conversating or just listen to the full story instead of, like, interrupting, getting down to the point.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:32]:
And Matt?

Matt Haviland [00:21:32]:
Yeah, I think it’s so important to live out your values and what’s important to your family. We have a culture that is in many ways just so antagonistic and assaulting our daughters, and to be able to speak against that, letting our daughters know how beautiful they are, how valued they are, their virtue, their beauty, their tenderness. And this is an appropriate conversation for whether you’re raising a 5-year-old or a 20-year-old as well.

Olivia Haviland [00:21:58]:
I would also always say time over items too, because I know A lot of my friends’ parents will be like at work because they work third shift or something. They’ll be like, here’s money to go get something because I didn’t see you all day, or here’s money because I yelled at you kind of thing, instead of just sitting down, actually talking everything out. It helps grow a relationship too.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:20]:
Well, Matt, Olivia, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for spending time with me today, for sharing your journey in your own relationship. Matt is an author as well, and I should mention that he did write a book a number of years back called A Father’s Walk, a Christian-based resource for single fathers. And if people want to find out more about you, Matt, and what you’re doing, where should they go?

Matt Haviland [00:22:43]:
I don’t have a website, but you can email me. I’m completely open to that. My email is afatherswalk@gmail.com. That’s a fathers with an S on the end, walk at Gmail.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:54]:
Well, again, I want to say thank you. Thank you to both of you for your time, for sharing your And I wish you both all the best.

Matt Haviland [00:23:01]:
Thanks, Christopher.

Olivia Haviland [00:23:01]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:02]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:23:33]:
We’re all in the same boat and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons. We make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

The post Building Stronger Bonds: Matt Haviland and his Daughter Olivia’s Father-Daughter Journey appeared first on Dad of Divas.

Build a Weekly Plan That Leaves Breathing Room

This puts you back in control of the week by choosing what truly matters, setting clear limits, and protecting real downtime. It helps everyday families reduce last-minute scrambling while making space for rest, play, and connection.

1. List every commitment and name your top priorities
   Start with a full brain-dump of school needs, practices, lessons, chores, and family obligations. Then circle your child’s top 2 to 3 “must-keep” activities for this season and write why they matter (skill-building, joy, friendships, or family values). Keeping priorities visible makes later decisions feel fair, not random.
2. Set a simple extracurricular limit for this season
   Choose a cap that matches your family’s capacity, such as “one sport plus one other activity,” or “no more than three after-school days booked.” If you need a tie-breaker, favor activities that best support your priorities and drop or pause the ones that add stress without enough payoff.
3. Run one shared family calendar with one weekly check-in
   Pick a single calendar that everyone can see, and put every repeating item on it, including pickup times and travel buffers. Add a 10-minute weekly check-in to confirm who is doing which rides and what needs to move. Consistent parent coordination matters, and parental involvement is linked with better long-term outcomes.
4. Block downtime first, then schedule the rest around it
   Choose 2 to 4 downtime blocks for the week and label them clearly (free play, reading, walk, quiet time). Treat these blocks like appointments so they do not get swallowed by “just one more thing.” Since children watch TV so often on typical days, planning for offline downtime helps rest feel intentional, not accidental.
5. Review the week using a quick “stress test” and adjust
   Scan each day for tight turnarounds, late nights, or more than one demanding commitment in a row. If a day fails the stress test, fix it immediately by swapping, shortening, carpooling, or declining something. Small adjustments each week prevent overload from becoming the new normal.

Turn Downtime Into a Simple At-Home Creative Project

Once you’ve protected a little breathing room in the week, it helps to have a calm, low-pressure option ready so free time doesn’t automatically turn into “more activities.” Encouraging kids to use creative digital tools during downtime can give them something engaging to do without making their schedule feel even more structured. AI animation generators let children transform text prompts, images, or their own imaginative ideas into animated scenes and short videos, which can be a fun way to experiment with storytelling and self-expression. Tools like Adobe Firefly’s AI animation creator make it possible to turn a small spark, one character, one setting, one silly “what if?”, into a simple animation that feels both productive and relaxing.

Because the goal is unwinding, keep the project light: the act of playing with visuals, movement, and narrative can become a satisfying outlet for imagination without the pressure of performance. Over time, these small creative projects can help kids decompress, explore what they’re interested in, and maintain a healthier balance between their commitments and the open-ended time that lets them recharge.

A Simple Weekly Rhythm That Keeps Plans in Check

This quick routine keeps your calendar from slowly filling back up while still leaving room for fun. It also makes scheduled conversations predictable, so you are not renegotiating every day. Use it as a lightweight loop: review, choose, adjust, and reset.

Because each stage feeds the next, you stay proactive without micromanaging. Capturing and blocking reveal what is realistic, choosing creates breathing room, and adjusting keeps you responsive to real life.

Common Questions About Kids’ Schedules

Q: How do I balance schoolwork with sports, clubs, and friends?
A: Put school, sleep, meals, and homework time on the calendar first, then add activities around those anchors. If homework is consistently pushing late, trim one commitment for two weeks and reassess. Aim for consistency on weeknights and more flexibility on weekends.

Q: What are the clearest signs my child is overscheduled?
A: Watch for more meltdowns, frequent complaints of headaches or stomachaches, trouble falling asleep, or sudden drops in motivation. Another clue is when every transition becomes a fight because there is no buffer. Treat these as data, not drama, and lighten the load quickly.

Q: How can I cancel plans without feeling like the “bad guy”?
A: Use a calm, steady script: “We are protecting rest this week, so we are skipping this one.” Add a short apology if you overbooked, because we all make mistakes and kids learn from that honesty. Then offer a replacement: “Let’s pick one fun thing for Saturday.”

Q: When should I push through a busy week versus pulling back?
A: Push through when it is temporary and your child is coping well with sleep, mood, and school. Pull back when stress is stacking for more than a few days or your family is snapping at each other over small things. Reducing one obligation now often prevents bigger problems later.

Q: Can I change the plan if another parent or caregiver disagrees?
A: Yes, but communicate early and focus on the child’s needs, not who is “right.” Suggest a concrete alternative like swapping days or choosing one priority activity, and keep the tone respectful. When co-parenting is the situation, clear, shared expectations reduce last-minute conflict.

Protecting Downtime While Keeping Kids’ Schedules Sustainable

When every week is packed with school, practices, and plans, family time turns into logistics and kids carry more stress than fun. The goal is a balanced mindset: set clear priorities, use a simple calendar check, implement activity limits, and protect scheduled downtime as a non-negotiable part of maintaining healthy routines. Over time, this approach creates more predictable days, calmer transitions, and space for connection without sacrificing what matters most. If the calendar leaves no breathing room, the schedule is too full. Choose one change this week, do a calendar reset or set one activity cap, and keep that boundary steady for a month. That breathing room builds resilience, stronger relationships, and healthier long-term habits for everyone.

The post How to Balance Kids’ Busy Schedules for More Fun and Less Stress appeared first on Dad of Divas.

Twenty-five years ago today, our nation experienced a tragedy that changed us forever.

For those of us who lived through September 11, 2001, the memories of that day remain remarkably vivid. We remember where we were, who we were with, and the disbelief we felt as we watched events unfold in New York City, at the Pentagon, and in a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

I remember being in my office at the university where I was working as a Student Affairs professional. I received a call telling me to turn on the news because a plane had struck one of the Twin Towers. At that moment, none of us understood what was actually happening.

I joined colleagues around a television in our office, and together we watched the unimaginable unfold. There was shock. There was confusion. There was an overwhelming sense of helplessness as we realized the magnitude of what was happening and the tremendous loss of life occurring before our eyes.

A few days later, September 11 became even more personal for our family.

The Saturday before the attacks, my wife and I attended the wedding of one of her high school friends. It was a wonderful celebration filled with the kind of happiness, laughter, and promise that accompanies a wedding. During the ceremony, we met Kelly Ann Booms, a friend of the bride who was sitting in front of us.

Kelly mentioned that she needed to return to Boston because she was leaving early Tuesday morning for a business trip to Los Angeles.

That Tuesday was September 11.

Later that week, we learned that Kelly was a passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 11, the first plane to strike the World Trade Center.

Suddenly, one of the thousands of names we would hear associated with September 11 was someone we had just met. Someone we had talked with. Someone who had plans for Tuesday and for all the Tuesdays that should have followed.

That is something I think about every September 11.

Nearly 3,000 people lost their lives that day. Behind that number were thousands of individual stories—parents, spouses, sons and daughters, siblings, friends, coworkers, first responders, and people simply going about an ordinary Tuesday morning.

They had meetings to attend, children to pick up, phone calls to return, vacations to take, birthdays to celebrate, and lives still to live.

Kelly was one of them.

Twenty-five years later, fewer and fewer people can say they personally remember September 11. An entire generation has now grown up knowing the events only through history books, documentaries, photographs, and the stories told by those who were there.

That makes remembering even more important.

We remember the horror of what happened, but we should also remember the humanity—the courage of first responders who ran toward danger, the passengers and crew of Flight 93 who acted knowing the risks, the countless acts of kindness that followed, and the families who have carried the loss of loved ones for a quarter century.

Most importantly, we remember the people.

Today, I remember Kelly Ann Booms.

I remember the brief conversation we shared just days before her life was taken. And I remember the thousands of others whose families have lived every day since September 11 with an empty chair, a missing voice, and memories of someone they loved.

Twenty-five years later, may we continue to say their names, tell their stories, and ensure that those who come after us understand not simply what happened on September 11, 2001, but who we

• What are your memories of this event in our collective history?
• How will you tell your children about this event in the future?

The post 9-11 – Remembering The Day 25 Years Later appeared first on Dad of Divas.

Intentionality and Presence
From the very start, Dr. Christopher Lewis sets the tone: fatherhood isn’t about achieving perfection, but about truly connecting and learning as you go. Each week, the podcast dives into stories and practical advice to help dads show up with intention. As John Azoni shares, “There’s no one right way to father our daughters,” but we can always add new tools to our toolbox by learning from each other.

Creating Meaningful Memories
A standout theme of this episode is making memories, both big and small. John Azoni recounts an unforgettable trip to Japan with his daughter for her 10th birthday—a tradition inspired by a parenting book. But the heart of the conversation reveals that it’s often the simplest moments, like cooking together or going for wonton soup every Thursday, that mean the most. One-on-one time, even a half hour at bedtime, can become the foundation for lifelong connections.

Honesty, Growth, and Mistakes
Both John Azoni and Dr. Christopher Lewis candidly discuss the challenges—especially during difficult times like COVID or navigating questions around faith. John Azoni is honest about making mistakes, from losing patience to not always having the answers. The key lesson? “I make a lot of mistakes and I’ve learned to be okay with that… I want my kids to grow up and know their dad was crazy about them.”

Encouragement to Other Dads
The episode wraps with powerful advice: Be intentional. Don’t let stress distract you from what really matters. As John Azoni puts it, “The grass is greener where you water it”—the relationships you invest in now will shape the future.

If you’re a dad, or know someone who is, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a heartfelt reminder that showing up, being present, and embracing imperfection are the real keys to building an unbreakable bond with your daughter.

Listen to the full episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection to get inspired and start your journey toward a stronger relationship today!

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started, because being a great dad isn’t just about being there, it’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with one another and work on building those that we want with our daughters one day at a time. I love that you come back every week because all of us are on a journey. Whether you have toddlers, whether you have a baby at home, whether you have teenagers at home, whether you have adult kids, we all are on this continuum of being a father to a daughter.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:19]:
And we can always learn more. We can always learn more to help us to be able to be better in the role that we have. We’re gonna stumble, we’re gonna fall, That’s okay. All of us do it. There’s no one right way to father our daughters. But what we can do is we can learn from other dads what’s working for them, what’s not working for them, and build some tools for our own toolbox, add some tools for our own toolbox, and be able to get just that much better every day because that’s what we need to be doing. to be able to be there for our daughters. That’s what we need to be doing to be able to be present.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:59]:
And I am really excited to have another new guest this week. John Azoni is with us today, and John’s a father of 2 daughters who are 9 and 11. And we’re gonna be talking about the journey that he’s been on with his daughters. And I’m really excited to have him here today. John, thanks so much for being here.

John Azoni [00:02:15]:
Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:17]:
You know, it’s really, I’m really excited to be able to have you here today and to be able to talk to you about the journey that you have been on thus far with your daughters. And I guess one of the things that I always think about when it comes to raising our daughters is we’re always running after those moments. We want those moments with our kids. And as you think back to the years that you’ve had with your daughters thus far, what’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with them and what made it so special? And one thing I’ll add is they could be separate moments as well.

John Azoni [00:02:49]:
So I read this book a number of years ago called Love Does. The author is Bob Goff and it’s a faith-based book. And in it, he talks a lot about parenting. parenting. And he told the story of taking his kids when they turned 10 on a trip anywhere in the world they want to go to, really leaning into what is it that they are becoming, what is it that they’re interested in, and, and where can we go in the world to kind of deepen that. And so I always thought that that was a cool idea. And my daughter, when she turned 10 last year, my daughter Ellie, in my mind I was kind of like maybe somewhere in the United States. I don’t remember explicitly saying anywhere in the world.

John Azoni [00:03:25]:
So when my daughter was like, I want to go to Japan, I was like, oh, okay. Well, so after a lot of hemming and hawing, I talked to my wife. She’s like, just do it. It’s like once in a lifetime. We’re like, all right, we’re going to Japan. So, so we went to Tokyo last May and it was so cool just to learn about another culture together, to really press into, you know, the stuff that she likes. She’s really into K-pop. It’s obviously not in Korea, but somewhere over there.

John Azoni [00:03:54]:
She’s into that kind of Asian culture and Hello Kitty. And they have the biggest Hello Kitty store in the world there, uh, video games and arcades where she can and do all the— she loves playing those claw games, which are really popular in Asian countries. So, so it was great. I mean, we just traveled around, we ate good food, we went to Paris Disney, um, and just spent a week together. That— and, and even just like, it was a pretty short trip, but— and people were like, well, you’re just going for like 5 days? Like, aren’t you gonna be— I mean, like, a big part of that is just traveling, you know? By the time you get there, I think we had 3 full days there. And I was just like, you know, it’s, it’s the adventure. It’s like traveling is, is part of it. We’re gonna learn how to do the airport together.

John Azoni [00:04:30]:
So on the way there, I kind of led the charge, but on the way back I was like, All right, where do you think we should turn to get to baggage claim or stuff like that? Or where do you think we should go to get our bags checked? So that was fun. And, you know, I’ve had other special experiences with my youngest daughter, Ryland. Currently though, we’re planning her trip. She wants to go to Paris. So we’re planning on going to Paris next year.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:50]:
Those will be experiences that they will never forget. And definitely you don’t have to do these huge moments. They can be small moments as well. But I had an experience like that last year with my oldest who is in college, but she was out in Colorado and I picked her up from a camp she was working in and we spent a week going to all the national parks all around in that area. So we went to Zion and Bryce and Grand Canyon and Petrified Forest, all kinds of places. And we hiked and we just had an amazing experience. And I think when you have those opportunities, not only are they great opportunities to be able to have to build memories, but you have time one-on-one. And I think that’s even more important.

John Azoni [00:05:32]:
Yeah, one-on-one time is really special. So last weekend, my oldest daughter went to Florida with my wife because she does dance, and her dance group went to go perform at Disney in the parade. And so that was just a life dream of hers. And she got this one-on-one time with my wife. And previously, we were kind of like, all right, we’re Disney’d out. We’ve been to Disney World. We’ve been on a Disney cruise. I took Ellie to Disney in Tokyo.

John Azoni [00:05:58]:
And we’ve been to Disneyland when we went to California last year. And my wife was kind of like, all right, this is the last time I got to go to Disney. And then I get a text from her in the middle of it. She’s like, this is so great. It’s such a different experience being one-on-one with Ellie and we’re just having the best time. And at the same time, I’m home with Ryland and we had our own special weekend. We, you know, wrote on the whiteboard, here’s all the things we wanna do and we wanna schedule all these things out. Anytime you can write a list on a whiteboard for my youngest, she’s all about it.

John Azoni [00:06:27]:
She loves to just like have a checklist, have a plan. So one-on-one time is something completely different that you just cannot replace.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]:
Now you talked a little bit about on that trip to Tokyo, giving your daughter some independence to be able to make some decisions and things like that. And, and as our kids are getting older, we definitely have to do that. How are you finding that you’re balancing not only guiding your daughters, but also giving them the independence to grow into the people that they’re becoming?

John Azoni [00:06:52]:
Oh, that’s a tough question. I try to lean into who are they and what is, what is my role in this? Like one of the things that I learned about Ellie on that Japan trip is how scrappy she is. And it’s so different for me. Like she has no problem going up and asking a stranger where to get directions. Or one time we were on the bus going somewhere in Tokyo and some lady was lost. And for some reason my daughter stepped in and starts trying to tell her where to go as if she knows where to go. I’m like, Ellie, where do you think you’re sending her? She just wants to get in there. And I’m just very like, I don’t like to be embarrassed.

John Azoni [00:07:27]:
I don’t like to ask for help. I’m a lot more shy, but she kind of lifts me up in that way. I really try to get on that level with her and also just try to let her be who she is and go out into the world and just talk to new people like her mom does. But I think it’s always a challenge where to step in. I think the biggest area that we are struggling with that right now is, is in faith. And I don’t know if you’re a person of faith, but when I got married, my wife and I were both devout Christians. And over the last 5 years, I’ve kind of deconstructed and my faith has evolved in a way— I wouldn’t say I’m not a believer, but I would say like I just have so many questions that I’m allowing myself to ask. And I’m engaging in these conversations with what I grew up believing versus what can be verified and things like that.

John Azoni [00:08:13]:
So I’m kind of down this more scientific path. My wife isn’t. How do we let our kids discover things on their own? And what do we teach them about the world? That’s been really hard because when you’re defining your parenthood around an entire ideology, like a religion, and that’s the lens that you’re giving your kids, and that’s the lens you’re told to give your kids, you’re instructed to teach them in this way. Well, now when you throw questions into the mix, mom and dad have different answers for what do you do? So I think we’ve kind of landed on. We want our kids to think independently. And when one of my kids has a tough question, I’ll say, well, here’s what I think. Here’s what I’m not sure about. Like, here’s what I have questions about.

John Azoni [00:08:55]:
Here’s what your mom thinks. And you can kind of make up your own decision. And that was also never more true in, you know, this most recent election. You know, my oldest had a lot of questions about who was running for president, who was the good guy, and who was the bad guy. And it’s easy to want to pick a side and train your kid on that side. But we really tried to just step back and be like, well, Well, here’s what this side says. Here’s what that side says. What do you think? And so that’s kind of where we’ve landed, I think, giving them some scaffolding, but letting them kind of figure it out themselves.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:26]:
And as you’ve been starting to do that with your daughters, especially around this faith journey, what has their response been?

John Azoni [00:09:33]:
It’s tough because they knew me when we were all praying every night and putting them to bed and going to church all the time and, you know, all this stuff. And so they’ve seen me kind of drift and ask these questions that they look at me as I’m supposed to have the answers To these, you’re supposed to know if if Adam and Eve are real people or not. And so that’s been tough. You know, their response has been honestly one of confusion. I wish I had a glossy answer for you. It’s not gone great. It’s very tough to navigate. And like I said, you know, we just go back to like here’s what two different people can think, and we can hold two different things in tension.

John Azoni [00:10:11]:
And certainly the Bible, there are a lot of instances where the Bible is represented as God holding two. seemingly opposing things in tension together and somehow making it work. So we kind of go with that. But yeah, I wish I could tell you that it’s gone. It’s just been perfect. And they’re— they have all the answers that I don’t have. But anytime you’re trying to sort through something on your own and your kid’s looking to you for the answer, that’s just a tough position to be in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:36]:
It is a tough place to be because, I mean, you try to have that solid front on everything in parenting because when you don’t have the solid front, then things tend to go awry. So I think what you’re hearing here, though, is that John and his wife still have a solid front, but they’re attacking it in different ways. And they’re providing their kids the ability to be able to move in the direction that makes more sense for them. That doesn’t mean that they’re not in alignment on other things in their parenting journey, though.

John Azoni [00:11:07]:
Yeah, I would liken it to, like, giving them— I mentioned the term scaffolding, and I really like that term. And I would just say, So we’ve just really widened the scaffolding around faith to where we’re still in this box. But what that looks like on a day-to-day basis or on an individual beliefs basis can look different. And 2 people can arrive at different conclusions and still have the same heart.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:31]:
So as you think about your daughters and you think about what you’ve been doing with your daughters, what are some intentional ways that you have worked to strengthen your bond with your daughters, especially during times that might be more challenging?

John Azoni [00:11:43]:
COVID was a time of obviously being sort of forced into this intentional time. And at first it was very stressful because at the time I had a salaried job and a certain amount of PTO days and I’m a rule follower. So if I say I’m working, but I’m off at the park with the kids, like I don’t, I don’t feel good about that. But like there was all this stuff that you had to do from out of necessity during that time. So it was a stressful time, but it also kind of caused me to be like, let’s really soak this up. And so we did a lot of stuff together as a family, but that actually led me to leave that job. and start my own company, my own video production company. And for a big reason was to be more flexible with them and to be able to be home with them and be there when they need me and not have to worry about PTO.

John Azoni [00:12:28]:
And so that’s opened the doors to a lot of great times where I might be right in the middle of a busy project and I would get a call from the school. And my oldest, Ellie, she was the one that would call home a lot. She would feel a stomachache or something and she’d feel like she needed to go home. And we would have to navigate like a lot of times, like, what is the line that Where Dad will pick you up and where you need to tough it out. But there’s a lot of times where I could have been really stressed about work, but I had to just really be like, you know what, I’m just— I’m gonna go pick her up. I’m gonna be happy about it. I’m gonna have a smile on my face. I’m gonna make her feel like Dad wants to be here.

John Azoni [00:13:01]:
Dad cares about me. He’s not annoyed with me. You know, I think just those small acts have been great. And I remember, you know, other times too, just a lot of our special times revolve around food.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:12]:
Yeah.

John Azoni [00:13:13]:
It seems like every Thursday, a number of years ago when Ellie was in preschool, she would have a half day. And so I’d pick her up and every Thursday we’d go get wonton soup on the way home at this Chinese restaurant. And we learned— Dad stepped out of his comfort zone and learned the owner of the restaurant’s name so that when we called, we can say, hey, Lynn, our usual. She wanted that. Like, that would just be so cool. And so eventually she started calling and being like, hi, Lynn, it’s Ellie, just our usual. And then we’d go pick it up. But we cook a lot together too.

John Azoni [00:13:42]:
My daughters each really enjoy cooking and no matter what we’re making, just spending time together. And that’s where I think one-on-one time is really important because trying to cook with both of them at the same time is just a constant referee of who got to chop what, who got to pour this, who cracked the last egg, you know. So I found just one at a time, we’ll have a great time together, but let’s just, you know. So yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of opportunities, but I think it’s a lot in those small moments where it’s like my natural reaction might be to be stressed or just to be worried about the day-to-day. stuff, but like my daughters are looking to me as like, am I liked? Like, am I loved in this moment? Am I safe in this moment? Does my dad want to be here? And I really try to, to just put on a smile and just be like, you know what, this— because one of the things I say, I started saying since I started my own business was my business is in service of my kids, not in spite of them. And that’s a tough thing to, to stick to because whether or not something gets done has a very real consequences about whether, whether income comes in the door. But, but the reason why I— half the reason I started my own company was to be there for my kids and to not miss this time with them. And so, so yeah, that’s kind of how I think about work and spending time with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:01]:
All of us as dads, we’re not perfect. We make mistakes. And while we try our best to be the best we can, we’re going to make mistakes. We’re fallible. We’re humans. What’s a mistake that you made as a father? And what did What did it do, or what did you learn from it about fostering positive communication and connection with your daughters?

John Azoni [00:15:20]:
I think it’s a pattern of mistakes. And when I get overstimulated, when there’s too many people talking to me at once, I get immediate, like 0 to 100 stressed out. And that’s— I’m so likely to just lash out and like snap and say something, tell them to be quiet, but in a rude way that we’re not allowed to say. So that’s where it’s such a tension of like, because they’re both in the back talking like peak back-talking phase. And honestly, my youngest is the most cutting about it. I mean, she will just go right for the jugular. And they talk back usually as a reaction and not as a response, like not as an intentional response. So when I’m feeling stressed or overwhelmed and I lash out, I’m not doing any service to them.

John Azoni [00:16:06]:
It’s very hypocritical to tell them that’s not how we talk to people. And then just in a, in a different way or a different use of words, I do the same thing. So I think that’s— I think we’re all learning together. How to regulate ourselves. My wife is a therapist, and so we’ve learned a lot about the concept of regulation, and we’ve read a lot of parenting books about when your kids make you mad or something, or they say something completely disrespectful, they’re dysregulated. They’re not really choosing that response. And so your job as a parent is to be the one that regulates, not escalates. And so that’s— that is the toughest thing for me, like— I have to really think I’m feeling myself escalating this situation and I need to be the, I need to be the regulator.

John Azoni [00:16:50]:
So I don’t know if that answers your question, but that’s just a slurry of thoughts of, of communication between me and my kids.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:58]:
No, I appreciate you sharing that because I think it is important to understand that that happens. I mean, and we’re going to, things are going to adjust and, you know, and all of us get overwhelmed at times. And especially these days, there’s so many things being thrown at every one of us. And whether it’s technology, whether it’s, you know, whatever, there are so many things that are being thrown at each one of us, not only us, but our kids, etc. So it is important to know that. And then finding ways to be able to quiet the noise, not only for ourselves, but quiet the noise for our kids, I think is also important as we think about our— the way in which we’re fathering. Because if we know— if you know that you’re triggered when that happens, you have to figure out for yourself, and you’ve probably already done that, is What can you do to quiet the noise so that you can continue being present and continue, continue being who you want to be with your daughters?

John Azoni [00:17:51]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:52]:
So there’s been a lot of things that you’ve talked about where you’re showing that you’re doing some intentional things to really connect with your daughters. What do you do intentionally to make your daughters feel valued and heard?

John Azoni [00:18:04]:
I think it’s just trying to get on their level and care about the things that they care about. My youngest, it’s always was so funny, and we, my wife and I laugh about this. We would pick her up from daycare when she was younger, you know, 3, 4 years old. And that could be a very stressful moment because we’re also picking up my oldest from daycare and she’s wanting to do something. Can we go out for ice cream? Or when’s mom going to be home? Blah, blah, blah. And again, too many people talking to me at once. And my youngest, all she wants to do in that moment is show me the drawings that she made and show me the little worksheets that she did. And it’s so important to her.

John Azoni [00:18:38]:
And she feels, you can just see the receiving of love when you look at her and you care about what she wrote, that she wrote her name or that she did something, that she wrote, she counted to 10 or whatever it is. And so, I mean, we have stacks and stacks of paper because that behavior has never stopped. She’s almost 9 and she still to this day wants to show us everything. She went to this art camp a couple weeks ago, made all kinds of art. And the first thing she wants to do when we get in the car is like, Dad, let me show you what I made. And it’s so important that I give her my full attention. And I can get on board with that because I’m— my background’s in fine arts. I’m a painter.

John Azoni [00:19:14]:
So I went to art school and all that stuff. So that’s a perfect thing for me to like get on board with. I think just, yeah, finding in those moments, what are they really trying to say right now? What they’re really trying to say is, Dad, I want to connect with you. Not like, not necessarily about the papers or the drawings or whatever. And I find that with my oldest too. She’s starting to outgrow like bedtime, but she still wants me to put her to bed. And, you know, and I’m kind of just like clinging to that for as long as possible. And we just have the best talks.

John Azoni [00:19:43]:
Like, there’s just no greater conversation than when we’re just— I’m just laying in her bed with her next to her and we’re just, just talking about whatever, just laughing about things. I mean, so much laughter happens in those moments. And I listen when I’m putting my other daughter to bed, my wife’s putting Ellie to bed, I hear them cracking up too because they just get into the funniest, you know, they just become a new person. They feel so safe. And so I think just being intentional about those moments, because sometimes I’m like, I’m tired, it’s 9:30, I got to get up at 5 in the morning. I don’t want to spend a half an hour, you know, laying, laying with you and waiting for you to brush your teeth and waiting for you to put your pajamas on. And it’s getting towards 10 o’clock now. And so I try, but I try to really push that aside and say, hey, she’s, she’s not going to ask me to do this for much longer.

John Azoni [00:20:29]:
And in 5 years, I’m going to miss any, any attention she gave me, like her wanting to actually hang out with me, because it’s going to be the other way around. So, so I think it’s just, I think it’s just recognizing in those moments what’s really most important and then just leaning into that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:45]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection 6. 6 more questions to delve a little bit deeper into you as a dad. Are you ready?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:52]:
Sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:53]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with your daughters?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:56]:
Humor.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:57]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice that you ever received?

John Azoni [00:21:02]:
It’s probably from when you’re walking around a grocery store and you get like a whole stream of like elderly men that will say, I remember when my daughter was that age and then she started driving the next day. Like, don’t miss it. I really actually took advice to heart, like what I just said. I’m like, there’s gonna be a time when they’re not gonna want to hang out with me, so don’t miss it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:20]:
What’s one activity you and your daughters love doing together?

John Azoni [00:21:24]:
Cooking.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:25]:
If you could give your daughters one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

John Azoni [00:21:30]:
I think just don’t change for other people. Don’t be the person that you’re with. I think like maybe girls especially start dating and things like that, they want to change to be liked and to impress and things like that. And so I think my advice would just be to just be yourself and be What’s one thing you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad? I have learned, I have learned that I make a lot of mistakes and I’ve learned to be okay with that. I just want my kids to grow up and know that their dad was crazy about them. And for all my flaws, I want them to— I watched this video one time. It was my boss’s. We did a story on my boss at the time at my old job, his family.

John Azoni [00:22:11]:
And we interviewed his wife and they were talking about her parents and they asked her, what’s your favorite thing about your dad? And she said, said how much he loves me. And she started crying. And I edited that video. So of course, I’m like, I’m like tearing up and like, you know, you got the music going and stuff like that in the edit, in the video edit. So, but I’ve always kept that with me as like, that’s like my mantra as a dad. Like, I’m gonna mess up, but like, I want my kids to, to really feel and be imprinted with how like crazy I am about them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:39]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

John Azoni [00:22:48]:
I think it’s just being really intentional with them. I think for me, I just think about, it’s like we have 18 years if we’re lucky, and I want to build as many memories with them as possible. And I don’t want to waste this being stressed about stuff that’s just not going to matter in 50 years. And so, and I think about it the same way of like marriage advice. People contrast the saying of the grass is greener on the other side. side with, with saying the grass is greener where you water it. And I like that about marriage. And that’s something that I keep in my mind.

John Azoni [00:23:20]:
But I also think that that applies to kids too. I mean, the type of relationship that you’re going to have with your kids now and when they’re older is determined by how intentional you are in these early years and just watering that grass.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:34]:
Well, John, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing what you shared with the journey that you’ve gone through. If people want to find out more about you, I know you got a podcast. Is there a place that people can go to find out more?

John Azoni [00:23:46]:
Yeah, I’m very active on LinkedIn. My name’s spelled J-O-H-N-A-Z-O-N-I if you’re searching for me. That’s probably where I hang out the most, on LinkedIn. I don’t post a whole lot of family stuff, but once in a while you might get some sort of business advice through the lens of being a dad to 2 girls.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:00]:
Well, again, John, thank you so much for being here, and I wish you all the best.

John Azoni [00:24:03]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:03]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Outro Performer [00:24:34]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. So bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

The post Building Lasting Bonds: Intentional Fatherhood with John Azoni appeared first on Dad of Divas.

Challenging the Culture of Fear

One of the episode’s powerful themes is how today’s parents are conditioned to overprotect. Lenore Skenazy recounts the story that ignited her movement: letting her nine-year-old son navigate the New York City subway alone, only to face national backlash and probing “what ifs” from the media. As Lenore Skenazy explains at 10:01, our culture fixates on the rarest tragedies—like stranger abductions—despite statistical evidence showing how unlikely they are. This fear loop not only restricts children’s experiences but also saps much of the joy and pride of seeing them grow.

The Power of Trust and Letting Go

Dr. Christopher Lewis and Lenore Skenazy discuss the essential “trust loop,” where letting children try things on their own—whether it’s walking to the store or making pancakes—builds both competence and confidence. As Lenore Skenazy beautifully puts it at 30:28, “When adults step back, kids step up.” True confidence, she explains, grows from real experiences and problem-solving, not empty reassurance.

Practical Steps for Parents

The episode offers actionable advice for dads: let your kids help (even messily) when they’re small, encourage them to do things by themselves, and support their social independence with unstructured play. Check out the suggestions at 27:18—like organizing Free Play Fridays or starting your own “let grow” experiences. Not only will your children blossom, but you’ll also rediscover the pride that comes from witnessing their real-world triumphs.

Join the Movement

This episode isn’t just for dads. Anyone who wants to see children thrive in today’s anxious, scheduled world should tune in. Lenore Skenazy shares hope, humor, and evidence-based insights that will inspire you to let go—and let grow.

Ready to break the cycle and raise the confident daughter you know she can be? Listen to the full conversation now at dadanddaughterconnection.com and join a community of dads committed to showing up, connecting, and empowering the next generation.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity to be able to connect with not only one another, but But to be able to work and grow, to be able to become those dads that we wanna become and to be able to build the relationships and the connections that we want to build with our daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:11]:
I love it that you come back every week because every week there is something new that you can learn, some new tools you can add into your toolbox and things that you can do to be able to move yourself just maybe a little bit, maybe a lot, to be able to help you to be that dad that you want to be To your daughters. And that’s why this podcast exists. Every week I bring you different people. We have different conversations, all in alignment to help you to be able to move forward one step at a time. It’s not always gonna be easy. Being a father is not always gonna be easy, and that’s okay. That’s why I love being able to walk with you on this journey. You know, I’m a father of 2 daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:52]:
There are times that I stumble and fall and make mistakes just like you, but we all can learn. One step at a time. And today we’ve got another great guest. Lenore Skenazy is with us today, and I’m really excited to be able to have Lenore on because if you’ve ever wondered whether kids are being overprotected or whether parents are under more pressure than ever, then you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation because Lenore Skenazy, who is a journalist, she’s an author, she’s founder of the Free-Range Kids Movement, is with us today. Now, she’s often called America’s worst mom after allowing her 9-year-old son to ride the subway alone, Lenore turned that experience into a national conversation about raising capable, confident children. Today, through the nonprofit Let Grow, she continues to help families and schools foster independence, resilience, and real-world confidence in kids. Lenore, thanks so much for being here today.

Lenore Skenazy [00:02:49]:
Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:51]:
I’m really excited to have you here today. And I always start these conversations with just an opportunity to be able to get to know you and get to know your relationship with your own father, because all of us have fathers, that have helped us to become the people that we’ve become. And I guess as you think back to your dad, and I know as we, we talked at the very beginning, your dad’s been gone for a number of years, but as you think back to the relationship that you had with your father, what’s one of the things that your father did that made you truly feel seen, heard, and valued as a daughter?

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:21]:
Well, I’ll tell you one of the things he didn’t do, and I think that was the most significant, which is that he didn’t expect me or my sister— my dad had 2 daughters just like you— to be anything in particular. We didn’t have to be doctors, lawyers. We almost didn’t have to be successful. We just had to be ourselves. And ironically, he was so into sports. He was so into sports that he started a tennis club. That was his job for the last 30 years of his life. He built one of the first indoor tennis clubs in the suburbs of Chicago where we grew up.

Lenore Skenazy [00:03:51]:
Beautiful place. He was the president of it until the day he died. Ran tennis clinics and tennis parties and tennis tournaments. And my sister and I never had to play tennis. And I thought, that is pretty amazing. You know, it’s not like my kid has to be a mini-me. We didn’t have to be mini-anythings. And I was really grateful for that because I was never interested in any sport.

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:14]:
And that didn’t bother him as much as he loved sports.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:17]:
As you think back on your dad, how did he encourage you to be confident and independent in the things that you were doing and to support you in the passion and the dreams that you had?

Lenore Skenazy [00:04:29]:
Well, here’s the deal. He always believed in me and my sister that anything we were ready to do, that was fine. And as he got older, the thing that, that we would have the most fun with is he would call up and, and he ended up in a wheelchair for like the last 12 years. So he’s looking for fun. And it was always, Laura, tell me a joke, because we just love jokes. It was the era when people did tell whole long jokes. You know, a guy walks into a bar, a man’s, uh, you know, guys on a golf course, whatever it was. And I don’t say that he turned me into a public speaker, but he certainly realized the value of good timing and trying to get that, nail that punchline.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:09]:
And knowing that part of, I just read the book A Gentleman in Moscow by, I guess, Amor Towles. And one sentence he said in there struck me as so profound. It’s the novel of a guy confined to a luxury hotel since the beginning of the Russian Revolution until he’s very aged. And he adapts to the fact that he’ll never be able to leave this hotel. And at first, he’s just a rich guy, and then he ends up getting a job there. And he’s— everything he does, he does with incredible aplomb and tact and kindness. And towards the end, he said, a cheerful demeanor, which is the hallmark of an intelligent person, blah, blah, blah. And I thought, being cheerful is— it’s an obligation, right? And you can rise to it.

Lenore Skenazy [00:05:52]:
And it is the mark of somebody smart, not somebody silly and goofy, because it means that you’re putting somebody else’s emotions sometimes ahead of your own.

Speaker D [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:01]:
And also recognizing that the sort of the more cheerful you are, certainly the more you try to put yourself out there, it pays you back. And so everybody, it’s the rising tide for all the boats, all those glum boats out there. And my dad was always trying to do that. You know, he would ask the waitress, honey, what’s your name? Oh, okay, Samantha. I would love a cup of coffee. And he had a way of trying to bring things up. And he expected that of me. And I am grateful for that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:32]:
Now, I know you said your dad’s been gone for a number of years. If you could spend an entire day with your dad today doing anything, what would it look like?

Lenore Skenazy [00:06:41]:
Oh, I could tell you that. We would immediately go to a movie theater that has an all-day roster of really old black-and-white movies, most of them starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, but some of them a little bit deeper than that, and even some silent movies. My dad was really old when he had me, and I’m pretty old myself. And he loved— he had a book when I was growing up of the silent movie stars of the teens and ’20s. And oh my God, how I loved that book. And we really shared this fascination with how great the movies were back in the day. And he was a great dancer, and so he loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, and we loved musicals. And so— I would just sit there and we’d get a big tub of popcorn, which then would be stuck in his teeth for the rest of the day.

Lenore Skenazy [00:07:30]:
And God knows how many toothpicks he’d go through and sucking sounds like, like that, which is happening to us all at a certain age. But we would really have a great time with an all-day extravaganza at the movies.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:42]:
Now, I mentioned at the very beginning that you have been working on a free-range kids movement throughout, I’m going to say the world, because you’ve been really talking about this beyond just the US. You know, your message has gone beyond that. Let’s go back in time. I want to go back to that origin story because not everybody has heard about this. Tell me about what made you decide that it was so important not only to tell your own story, but to work with parents to be able to start this broader movement.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:12]:
Sure. So what happened was when our younger son was 9, older son was 11 at that point, Izzy started asking me and my husband if we would take him someplace he’d never been before. in New York City where we live and let him find his own way home by subway. That was the dream, by subway, because we’re always on the subways. We don’t have a car and he’s a boy, right? Boys like transportation. Oh my God. From the backhoes to the Cadillacs to the subway. And so one sunny Sunday, I took him to Bloomingdale’s fancy department store where we don’t shop.

Lenore Skenazy [00:08:45]:
So he’d never been there before. And it’s built on top of a subway station. And I left him there. I said, okay, have at it. Today’s the day. And he had to take a subway several stops down to 34th Street, which everybody knows, miracle. And then he had to take a bus across town. And when he finally got home, which took about an hour, he was just levitating with the excitement of like, he did it, it happened.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:08]:
He’d finally been let loose and he’d proven himself and he was really happy. And so I wrote a newspaper column about it like months later, ’cause it didn’t strike me as a big deal at the time. But when I needed a column to write, oh my God, what am I gonna write? I’ll write about this subway ride from a couple months ago. So I wrote Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone, and 2 days later, I was on the Today Show, MSNBC, Fox News, and NPR. And what I heard in all these interviews, and what disturbs me to this day, is that there was no joy, right? It was like, okay, so he did that. That’s wonderful. You seem happy. He seems fine.

Lenore Skenazy [00:09:44]:
But what if he wasn’t? What if he’d been thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and thrown on the tracks? What if he’d been raped and decapitated and thrown on the tracks? And the disturbing thing about that is not all the pictures you get in your head of, you know, that, but the fact that, that the news media was allowed to go to the what-ifs, the very worst what-ifs. And this was treated as a legitimate yin to the yang. He came home fine, he was happy, but what if instead he never came home? And I started recognizing that that’s what our culture does. It fantasizes for some reason about the very worst-case scenarios. And if you’re not doing that too, if you’re not saying, well, I’d like her to walk 2 blocks to the bus stop, but what if in, you know, in those 2 blocks in the quiet suburb, my, you know, 13-year-old who’s, you know, 5’6 tall, is kidnapped by a guy in a white van and I never see her again, so no, I’m not going to let her walk. And that’s a very strange culture that almost relishes thinking of catastrophes that are, thank God, extraordinarily rare. And I— my God, I’ve been writing about this so long, I know what the odds are. If you wanted your kid to be kidnapped by a stranger— do you know this already— how long you’d have to keep them outside for it to be statistically likely that they would be kidnapped by a stranger? Take a guess.

Lenore Skenazy [00:10:57]:
How long would you have to keep your kid outside for them to be kidnapped?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:00]:
Days.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:01]:
Think higher.

Speaker D [00:11:02]:
Months?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:03]:
Higher. Years?

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:04]:
Higher.

Speaker D [00:11:05]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:05]:
Yeah, the answer is 750,000 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:09]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:09]:
Yeah, because it’s an extraordinarily rare crime. It’s not extraordinarily rare on TV. It’s pretty darn common on Law Order, you know? But in real life, thank God, it just doesn’t happen. I mean, you know, there are kids who are taken. It’s generally by parents in a custodial dispute, divorced parents. And there are kids who run away. But kids taken by a stranger is one of the rarest of crimes, thank God. And if you’re gonna go and think about the rarest of crimes, or the rarest of tragedies in almost any situation, you, you know, you wouldn’t let your kid get in the car.

Lenore Skenazy [00:11:39]:
You know, there’s drunk drivers out there, there’s bad drivers out there, there’s elderly drivers out there. And you certainly, you wouldn’t let them live in a house with stairs or there’s a bathtub because, you know, once in a while kids fall downstairs or they drown in bathtubs. But the only one we really perseverate on Is the idea of, you know, you turned your head and while you turned your head, your kid was taken from you and you’ll never see him again. And that’s, that’s as weird as if we had a culture that believed that there were giant spiders out there. You know, it’s like, I can’t let my kid out. What about the giant spiders? It’s like, I’m really not too worried about the giant spiders. And it’s like, well, you should be. It’s like, but I’m not.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:16]:
Well, what if you came— what if you let him ride the subway and he got eaten by a giant spider? I’m like, I’m just not worried. Well, Lenore, I guess you don’t care.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You know, from everything I’ve seen, your videos and things like that, it seems like a lot of people often think that free-range kids is about giving kids more freedom.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:34]:
But it—

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:35]:
from everything I’ve read, it seems like it’s actually more about giving parents permission to trust their children. Tell me more about that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:12:42]:
Well, I think you’ve nailed it. The way I’ve started describing it is that what I was just talking about is what I call the fear loop, which is You know, I’d love to, like I said, you know, let him walk to school. But what if something terrible happened? What if a car jumped up the curb? You know, what if a, you know, man comes along in a van and that would all be my fault and now I’d never see him again and I would— couldn’t live with myself and it would be the end of my marriage. And, you know, I, you know, I’d be at the funeral. And, and you go through this loop, which, as I said, the media has actively cultivated. And the fear loop means that you never get out of it because what if something bad happens? I could never forgive myself, so I won’t let anything happen. The end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:17]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:17]:
It’s sort of the Finding Nemo loop. But there is an alternate loop, which is the trust loop. And the only way you get to the trust loop is through action. And the action is literally letting your kid do something without you. It sounds radical. It’s not radical. Throughout all of human history, this is how children were raised until the advent of tracking and constant supervision. But if you can let your kid walk to the bus stop, go to a friend’s house, play at the park for an hour, run an errand, even if you’re sitting there biting your nails the whole time, even if there’s horrible scenarios running through your brain.

Lenore Skenazy [00:13:51]:
First of all, you’re a parent, you’re going to have horrible scenarios running through your brain because you’re— you, you’ve given birth to a child and now you’re going to worry about them. There’s no such thing as a completely anxiety-free parenting venture. So give that up, live with the anxiety for a little bit. And when the kid comes home and they’re thrilled because they got the ice cream or they met a squirrel or they climbed a tree, or they’re a little shaken because they thought they took a left and then they found themselves on another block and they couldn’t remember where they were and they had to talk to somebody, but now Either way, you’re so proud, right? You’re so proud that, look at, they had a great time, or look at, they problem solved. Parents, I mean, you’re a parent. I’ll ask you, tell me about a time that you can remember when you were most proud of one of your daughters. Like, like, ah, you just love remembering that moment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:40]:
You know, I think my oldest went away to college about 12 hours away from home. And because she went that far away, she really had to figure things out for herself. And being able to see her be more confident in her abilities, and, and even as a part of that, she, you know, she took a term and she went to Scotland and had to, you know, had to adult. And also as a part of that, she, she went and she backpacked around Europe for 3 weeks by herself. And it was scary at times to be able to think, okay, she’s out in the middle of you know where, and not exactly knowing is she safe or not until she lets us know. But I also was really proud of her for being able to do that.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:30]:
Yeah, it’s not a but. Let me just pause here. You know, I was scared but also proud. No, those go together, right? I wasn’t there. She had to do something on her own. Look at who I’ve raised, right? This is the joy of parenting that our culture keeps sucking out. Because we’re there at every practice, we drive them to every activity, we’re there helping with the homework. And really, the joy of a child is saying, I did it myself, right? Look at, look at, I did it myself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:15:59]:
And the joy of a parent is they did it themselves. And instead, we’re always there helping and intervening and suggesting and, you know, just hovering. And that’s because our culture has told us as it was telling me, you know, how dare you let your kid do something? What if something terrible happens? We’ve really catastrophized everyday life to the point where kids need us to do anything we think safely or successfully on their own. But when the truth comes in, the truth breaks that fear cycle with this trust cycle of like, I let her go, look what she did. Oh my God, she did get on the wrong train in Edinburgh, or she did, you know, she tried the oysters and then she was sick for 3 days.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:43]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:16:44]:
But look, that’s part of life. And look at them blossoming. We don’t get that. It’s, it’s the fun of— well, it’s the fun of seeing your kid after you haven’t seen them for a while. You go like, oh my God, you’re so much taller and you’ve filled out and now you eat broccoli. I mean, all those things are thrilling to a parent. And that’s why when you get down to it, what let grow is about is first of all, letting grow. You let go and then you let grow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:09]:
But it’s also about Stepping back, because it’s true of me too, and my kids are in their 20s. When you’re with your kids, you see what they’re doing wrong. Oh, that’s sloppy. That’s a little risky. Oh, use your indoor voice. You know, I wouldn’t do it that way. Here, let me help. It’s just inevitable.

Lenore Skenazy [00:17:26]:
It’s not because you’re a bad parent or a harpy or a helicopter parent. It’s because when you’re with a younger kid and you see them struggling, you, you don’t want to see that. So the only solution is to not see it by not being there. And so Let Grow is dedicated to making it easy for you to not be there for some of your kids’ adventures. And the way we do it is with a program for schools that’s free, free, free, free, um, that’s called the Let Grow Experience, where once a month the kids get a homework assignment that simply says, go home and do something new on your own with your parents’ permission. But without your parents. And then each month there’s a different theme, like do something for your family, do something in the community, do something with a friend. And there’s a list of ideas.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:14]:
You can climb a tree, you can go to the store, you can bake dinner, you can babysit, walk the dog, whatever it is. Depends on your kid, their age, their interests, the neighborhood. But it’s really just to create that action that I’m talking about, ’cause action breaks the cycle. You’re afraid this’ll be terrible. If you’re really afraid, have 2 kids go out together. Have you and, you know, your friend’s kid go out together. They don’t have to be exactly the same age.

Speaker D [00:18:35]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:18:36]:
and they can go to the store or they can go get ice cream or, you know, they can have the lemonade stand down the block at the corner where you can’t see them. Our culture has made it just like parents and children are fused at this point. And throughout human history, that, that hasn’t been the case. It’s been a group of mixed-age kids trying to make something happen while the parents are busy basically having more kids or gleaning the oats, right? And instead, we’re there all the time and we separate kids by age and only the 7-year-olds are playing with the and it’s so unnatural. And we wonder, gee, they seem to be a little droopy. They seem to be a little depressed and anxious. It’s like, yeah, because they haven’t eaten. They haven’t eaten this normal life of this rich, this rich banquet of different ages and arguments and exhilaration and exploration.

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:25]:
And we’ve taken that out and we’ve given them travel soccer and they look a little sad. We gotta give it back. Let Grow gives it back in, I’d say, the easiest possible way as a homework assignment.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:35]:
So talk to me a little bit about, for, you do that for schools. Can individual parents also apply access those same resources?

Lenore Skenazy [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So we have the Let Grow Experience is the school version, pre. And then there’s, I think we call it the Let Grow Experience that’s also just for home use, quote unquote. It’s like a game. It’s like a home version of Jeopardy. But the fact of the matter is, you know, one of my Let Grow co-founders, there’s 4 of us, is Jonathan Haidt, who people know because he wrote The Anxious Generation. And he always says, and I think he’s right, that a collective problem needs a collective solution, which is that nobody knows when they can let their kids go out anymore. There was just an Institute for Family Studies survey of 25,000 parents that asked, you probably know this one, right? What age their parents are letting their kids do things in the neighborhood.

Lenore Skenazy [00:20:21]:
And even the parents of 14-year-olds, the majority of them will not let their child, child, 14-year-old, leave the block. Okay? That’s a very constricted childhood and that’s a very constricted adulthood, I would say. So if that’s the going norm, Then if you do a program through the schools and everybody has to send their kid to do something, you know, it could be in the house too if it’s, you know, if everything is very scary outside. But, you know, they could be making pancakes or they could be learning how to clean or something like that or something fun, make cookies and take them out of the oven with using a mitt without mom. But a collective action is easier because everybody’s doing it. You don’t feel weird, you don’t feel crazy. Nonetheless, if your school doesn’t do the Let Grow, experience. First of all, shame on them.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:08]:
But secondly, you can do it with a friend. You know, you and get— you get another friend and you send your— you’re drinking your Starbucks and you send your kids to the other end of the strip mall to go to the dollar store or go down there and get the bread for dinner from Kroger’s and bring it back. So almost any activity breaks the cycle. And I used to be kind of bummed that sometimes kids let grow experiences, whether it was for school or just, you know, for home, were minor league. You know, I did the dishes. Okay, that’s nice. Or the laundry. That’s good.

Lenore Skenazy [00:21:41]:
You know, it doesn’t take a whole lot to learn how to do the laundry. But what I’ve seen is that it’s just this loosening. It’s just a little loosening. There’s a little bit of pride. There’s a little bit of movement. And then it’s like, Mom, can I please go to the, you know, to the post office 2 blocks away? What’s a post office, Mom? I’ll go there. Right? What are those things? Letters. But But it builds on itself.

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:05]:
So I’d say any movement is better than no movement, and it’s often easier with a friend.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:10]:
What’s some of your favorite stories of, we’ll say, success stories from the movement thus far?

Lenore Skenazy [00:22:16]:
This is the one that I’ve heard this year that I liked the most, which was a mom in Connecticut, mother of a 10-year-old boy, ADHD for what it’s worth. She was so nervous that— this is why I like the story, ’cause it’s almost unbelievable how nervous she was. She’s sort of the apotheosis of what’s happening in the culture in that she said when somebody rang the doorbell, she would tell her, her young son who’s 10 and her older son who was 16, on the ground, get on the ground. It’s, it’s like, because someone’s going to be shooting through the door? And do they not shoot towards the ground? I don’t know. To me, it struck me as just odd, let’s put it that way, or excessive, right? I won’t say crazy, I’ll just say excessive. But she was excessively anxious, and she said she worried about everything. And, and I can understand that. I actually am a worrier, just not about strangers.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:00]:
But anyways, he comes home, he’s got the Let Grow experience, He’s a 10-year-old. Mom, can I please ride my bike? Okay, yes, you can ride it up and down the block. He’s in Connecticut. Finally, he says, Mom, can’t I please go around the corner? You know, my buddy is around the corner. And she’s like, okay, because she’s been— she’s getting used to it. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s a word in psychology, I think it’s accommodating or whatever it is. She’s getting used to it. So he goes around the corner, gets a friend, and the 2 of them start riding together.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:25]:
And then number 3 and number 4 and number 5. And by the time the summer rolls around, there’s 10 of them and they call themselves a biker gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:32]:
Wow.

Lenore Skenazy [00:23:33]:
And then they’re all over the neighborhood and they’re zooming around. And she said, and when they come to her house, it’s like locusts. They’ll eat, you know, every Pop-Tart and sandwich in the house. But she’s now keeping the door open because the kids could be coming by. And my favorite thing that she did this past winter is she sent me a picture of them when it was freezing temperatures. You know, it was below 32. And there they are, 6 of them, not 10, but 6 of them on their bikes. Because now they have a reason to live.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:02]:
live. Now he comes home and he throws his backpack on the ground and he eats his lunch or his snack and out he goes with his buddies. And then she wrote a thing in— she’s also an assistant principal— she wrote a little note in the, the school note, you know, whatever it is, the school email about a bullying incident. And I know that parents are very worried about bullying, so let me tell you what happened in this thing, which is that her son finally confessed to that he was being bullied on the bus ride home. And she was like, I can’t believe it. I’m gonna call the school. You know, I’m gonna get out there. That’s so terrible.

Lenore Skenazy [00:24:38]:
Don’t worry, honey. And he says, wait, Mom, no, Mom, Mom, we’re handling it. And by we, he meant his bike buddies. And so what they did is on the bus ride home the next day, 2 of his bike buddies told the bully, you can’t keep being mean to whatever this kid is. Let’s call him Steve. You can’t keep being mean to Steve. You know, that’s just not fair, or, you know, we won’t ever sit with you, or something like that. And the mom wrote in the newsletter, so I gotta believe it’s true, that after that, Steve came to her door, apologized, and asked could he be part of the bike gang.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:11]:
I guess as I think about what you’re saying, it really makes me think back to my own childhood because I think that a lot of people my age, we grew up, we left the house at a certain time after— whether it was after school, parents said be home by, you know, Whatever time. And it seems like at some point, you know, things kept getting closing down as we got into being parents ourselves. Things just got narrower and narrower instead of keeping open, like you’re saying. So you talk about what you’re doing and trying to open that back up. What would you say are some things that parents can do from day one, from early on?

Lenore Skenazy [00:25:59]:
A couple of things. Like when kids are really young, and I got this from Eat— what is it? Not Eat, Pray, Love— Hunt, Gather Parent. Let them help. They’re not good helpers. They’re terrible. Things spill more than they get unspilled, right, and cleaned up. But kids are desperate to be part of something, and that something is the family unit, the first community they’re part of. And so don’t thwart that.

Speaker D [00:26:20]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:26:20]:
And then when they’re older, Let them do things for you. This is not advice I had when I was a mom of little kids, and I think it’s really good advice. It’ll take longer, but in the end, you’ll have more helpful kids who sort of look around and think, what should I be doing? How can I be helping? As they get older, anything that they can do for themselves that you’re doing for them, try to let them do them for themselves. There was a great study from Yale where— this came out like 2 years ago— where they took parents who were coming into families that were coming into a A museum in Philadelphia, a children’s museum in Philadelphia. And they assigned them, you know, every other A, B, A, B, A, B. And they told both groups of parents, listen, your kids have to wear a little hockey uniform. These kids were 5. And they told Group A, it’s because they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:07]:
And they told Group B, they’ll get so into the hockey exhibit. And did you know that every time that they’re struggling with a button or a toggle, that’s actually learning? They’re learning every time they try to do something, even if they’re not doing it well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:18]:
And then the experimenters clicked how many times they saw the parents intervening to help. And the ones who knew that, who had been told that actually the struggle is the learning, intervened half as much. And that’s just something that I think can help us all if we recognize that trying to do something on their own is actually not just, you know, a stupid waste of time, right? It is their education in the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:27:44]:
that’s very helpful. And then as they get older, just encourage them to do things in the real world, especially if you want them to be off phones some of the time. You have to give them the other world, which is the real world, is at least as interesting as the virtual world. There are places to explore, there are people to meet, there are conquests to be made. And I can’t show you this because this is audio, but when last summer we did a Harris poll asking kids, how do you most want to spend time with your friends? How would you like to spend time with your friends? old school like you were just talking about, 1980s, ’90s style, just hanging out with your friends, no grown-ups, no schedule, or in an organized activity like soccer, ballet, chess, or online. And that could be video games or social media. And the kids said the number one choice was just hanging out, and number 2 was organized activity, and 20 points below hanging out was online. And so we keep thinking Kids are addicted to their phones.

Lenore Skenazy [00:28:43]:
That’s all they care about. No, kids are addicted to each other, right? They want to have fun. They want to flirt. They want to joke. They want to play. And if the only place they can do that is online because we keep not even letting the 14-year-olds go around the corner, well, of course they’re going to be online. I would be too. It’s the only escape route.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:01]:
So if you can get some of the other parents in your neighborhood to agree, we’re going to send our kids out. And you could start out by saying— we call it Free Play Friday.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:08]:
Okay.

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:09]:
Friday afternoons, I’m gonna be sending my kids to the park. You can too. You know, I’m not gonna be watching them, but there’ll be hula hoops and balls and, you know, they’ll be there from 4 to 6. Do that. And I, I just got a, a wonderful email this week from a mom who was doing that. And there’s, you know, 15 kids showed up. So why not do this? Your life becomes better and so does theirs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:30]:
Now, you said in one of your videos, I heard you say this and I, I wanted you to unpack it a little bit. You said that competence builds confidence. Can you explain that idea?

Lenore Skenazy [00:29:42]:
Not only can I explain that idea, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due. I’ve been talking about the same thing for all these years, and then I was talking to a pastor’s wife from Dallas, and she said, when you try something, when you’re trying something in the real world, at first you’re not good at it, whether it’s making the pancakes or building a birdhouse or anything. But as you do it, you become competent. And it is the competence that builds confidence. We all want these confident kids. Confidence doesn’t fall from the sky like mana, right? Confidence comes from like, oh, I can handle that, or, oh, I’ve done something like that before, or, I’ve never tried this, but I did make blah, blah, blah, so let me try this instead. And we think that we can get from no confidence to confidence by saying, you’re wonderful. But kids know, what am I wonderful at? I haven’t done anything.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:27]:
Right.

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:28]:
So we just have to step back and let them do things. You know, the Let Grow slogan is, when adults step back, kids step up. And that’s all I’m saying. It’s just a wonderful opportunity for you to see how much they can do and for them to grow in confidence, self-esteem, eagerness, agency, readiness for the world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:46]:
Now, if people want to find out more about Let Grow, where should they go?

Lenore Skenazy [00:30:50]:
First of all, bless them. Secondly, they should come to, guess what? Let Grow. And you know what? Nobody gets the name right, so I’m just going to spell it. it because everyone thinks it’s let’s go or let it grow or let’s get growing, whatever it is, they get it wrong. It is let grow, L-E-T, new word, grow, G-R-O-W. So it’s letgrow.org. And if you want a vaguely easy way to remember it, maybe it’s actually quite hard, I don’t know. It’s let go and let grow was originally our title.

Lenore Skenazy [00:31:19]:
So just let grow is when you— I just heard another story from another mom this week. about a kid who had to get an EEG, which I guess is like an EKG, whatever it was. They’re gonna be like little electrodes stuck all over her. And she was like 10 or 11 years old. And she’d been doing Let Grow through her school, you know, once a month had to do something new. And her mom said, okay, honey, do you want me to come in the room with you? And she said, no, mom, Let Grow. So I thought, yes, right? That’s a score one.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:48]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I call our Dad Connection 6. I usually ask the dads these questions. I’m gonna ask you some questions too. and see, see what you have to say. What’s one word that describes your relationship with your dad?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:04]:
Warmth.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:05]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:08]:
Oh, advice from my dad and from my mom. They always said, march to your own drummer.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]:
As you think about parents, and especially fathers of daughters, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:24]:
I guess this is going to sound counterintuitive or whatever, but there’s a giant book by a woman named Judith Harris called The Nurture Assumption, which maybe you’ve heard of. And it talks about we can give our kids a lot of love, but we can’t make them into something. We can’t make a physicist. We can’t make a sports lover, as we found out from my own dad. You can’t make a genius. You can’t make a jerk. There’s a lot that’s innate in a kid.

Speaker D [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Lenore Skenazy [00:32:52]:
And I think that relieves some of the burden on a parent because you can’t make an Einstein and you can’t really screw it up either. And that allows you to just watch the kid unfold.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:03]:
Well, Lenore, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today. Thank you for all that you’re doing to help our kids to let grow and allowing parents to let go and allow for our kids to grow in their own ways. I wish I had had this when my kids were really young. Because I think it would have pushed me in different directions. Because I know that I’ve fallen into some of the pitfalls that other parents fall into when it comes into this. But I think that we’ve done some good things too. But we’ve also made mistakes along the way.

Lenore Skenazy [00:33:34]:
You know what? You are not supposed to be perfect either. If you were perfect, I think a kid would probably turn out horrible if they had perfect parents. Because that’s just like only being given yogurt smoothies for your whole life. It’s like, that’s not right. You have to learn how to chew.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]:
Definitely the case. None of us are flawless. We’re all humans and we’re going to make mistakes. And I think that what you’re doing is amazing and definitely is going to help our next generation of parents be able to raise kids that are confident in their abilities. So thank you. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate your time and I wish you all the best.

Lenore Skenazy [00:34:09]:
Thank you so much, Christopher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:10]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect; it’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Musical Performer [00:34:41]:
We’re all in the same boat. And it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals, we buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, Carpenters and muscle men, get out and be in the world too now. Be the best dad you can be. Be the best dad you can be.

The post How to Let Go and Let Grow: Encouraging Independence in Daughters appeared first on Dad of Divas.

For the past several years, I’ve been bringing you a new episode every single week, and I am incredibly grateful for everyone who listens, shares an episode, recommends the podcast to a friend, or simply takes the time to tune in. This podcast means a lot to me, and getting to have conversations with amazing dads, daughters, authors, experts, and people who have something meaningful to teach us about fatherhood has been an incredible journey.

But I’ve also been reminded of something that I talk about on this podcast all the time: being present matters.

As much as I love doing this podcast, I’m also a dad, a husband, and someone with a lot of other responsibilities and commitments. And I’ve realized that trying to maintain a weekly schedule can sometimes mean I’m stretching myself a little too thin.

So, beginning today, The Dad & Daughter Connection will be moving from a weekly podcast to an every-other-week schedule.

Now, I want to be very clear: this isn’t about slowing down or giving you less. In fact, it’s about making sure I can continue giving you the kind of conversations and content you’ve come to expect from this podcast.

I want to have the time to find great guests, ask thoughtful questions, have meaningful conversations, and produce episodes that are worth your time. And just as importantly, I want to make sure I’m protecting time for the people who matter most to me—my family.

Because if I’m going to spend my time talking about the importance of being present for our daughters, I need to make sure I’m practicing what I preach.

So, you’re still going to hear the stories, the conversations, the laughs, and hopefully a few things that make you think differently about being a dad and raising strong, confident, independent daughters. You’ll just hear them every other week instead of every week.

I hope you’ll stick with me for the journey. And if you’ve been listening all along, thank you. I truly appreciate you being part of The Dad & Daughter Connection community.

Until next time, keep connecting with your daughters, keep having those important conversations, and most importantly, keep showing up.

The post A Change In Our Format appeared first on Dad of Divas.

Dr. Christopher Lewis opens with his signature warmth, reminding listeners that the core of fatherhood isn’t perfection, but presence. The conversation quickly pivots to Ed Frauenheim’s personal growth as a father to Skyla, his strong-willed, non-binary child. Their story is not just about adjusting to pronouns or grappling with change, but about learning the art of persistent, trusting connection.

One major theme running through the conversation is trust. Ed Frauenheim candidly shares early struggles trying to control Skyla, only to discover the power of letting go—of giving space, listening deeply, and trusting his child’s autonomy. He admits the journey wasn’t always smooth, referencing honest and sometimes painful moments of conflict that led to growth. It’s the small shifts—choosing to draw beside Skyla instead of insisting on homework—that became turning points, building a deeper bond rooted in respect.

The episode masterfully unpacks the challenges of moving past parental expectations when faced with a child’s evolving identity. Ed Frauenheim reflects on the initial mourning and adjustments after Skyla came out as non-binary, and the courage it took to support them fully, even in spaces steeped in traditional notions of masculinity. Through his vulnerability, listeners are offered a blueprint for embracing discomfort as a catalyst for connection and understanding.

Additional highlights include practical tips for other dads: creating a home where listening is prioritized, learning together about new concepts, and bringing levity to sensitive journeys through shared experiences. Ed Frauenheim emphasizes the value of apologizing, modeling openness, and never giving up on the pursuit of genuine connection.

If you’re a parent, caregiver, or anyone seeking to better support the young people in your life, this episode is a must-listen. It’s a tribute to adaptability, unconditional love, and the transformative power of trust. Tune in for actionable wisdom, moving anecdotes, and inspiration to keep showing up, even when the path is uncertain.

Catch the full episode at dadanddaughterconnection.com, and remember—the journey isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present, persistent, and ready to grow.

If you enjoyed this episode we ask you to take a moment to take our Dad and Daughter Connection Survey to let us know more about you as a dad. You can also sign up to get our newsletter to stay connected to our community and we will send items of interest to you to help you to be the dad that you want to be. Feel free to follow me on the following social media platforms: Facebook, Facebook Group, Instagram, LinkedIn, X.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:
Welcome to The Dad and Daughter Connection, the podcast for dads who want to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:
If you’re looking to build a stronger bond with your daughter and help her grow into a confident, independent woman, you’re in the right place. I’m Dr. Christopher Lewis, and The Dad and Daughter Connection is the podcast where we dive into real stories, expert advice, and practical tips to help you navigate the incredible journey of fatherhood. In every episode, we’ll bring you conversations that inspire, challenge, and equip you to show up as the dad your daughter needs. So let’s get started. Because being a great dad isn’t just about being there. It’s about truly connecting. Welcome back to the Dad and Daughter Connection, where every week we have a great opportunity, we have a great opportunity to be able to come together to and grow together to be able to work on those relationships that we want to have with our daughters, to help us to be able to create those solid relationships, those solid bonds that are going to help our daughters to become the people that they are becoming in their lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]:
That’s why, that’s why every week I love being able to introduce you to people with different experiences, people from all different types of walks of life that have had different experiences that’ll help you to be able to, I guess, in a way, reframe and to think about How are you fathering? Because not every father will father in the same ways, and that’s perfectly fine. What’s important is that we learn along the way. We take those bits that make sense. Maybe we adjust those things that don’t work for our family, and we help ourselves to become just a little bit better every day. Because by us becoming a little bit better, our kids are going to be better, and we’re going to be able to have those relationships and those— and build those connections that are going to last a lifetime. This week, we got another great guest. Ed Frauenheim is with us. And Ed is an author, a researcher, a speaker, and a workplace culture expert whose work explores how redefining masculinity can help men lead healthier, more connected, and more fulfilling lives.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:19]:
He’s a co-author of Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection, a book that examines the shift from outdated restrictive ideas of manhood toward a more compassionate and emotionally healthy vision of masculinity. And in addition to his work on masculinity, he’s also, also a father of 2. We’re going to talk about his own journey as a father. And we’re going to be able to talk a little bit further about what he’s had to go through in this journey that he’s been on as well. So I’m really excited to have him here. Ed, thanks so much for being here today.

Ed Frauenheim [00:02:53]:
Thanks, Christopher. It’s a real pleasure to be with you here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:56]:
It’s my pleasure having you here today. And I, I’m going to be very honest with Everyone that Ed has been on a podcast with me before, he and I did a podcast on my past podcast, Dads with Daughters. And on that podcast, we talked a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity. We’re not going to talk as much about the book this go around. So I encourage you that if you want to learn a lot more about Reinventing Masculinity, I talked to Ed right when that book came out. So I encourage you to go over, I’ll put a link in the notes today where you can find that other podcast. And you can listen there and learn even more. And but Today what we’re going to do is first we’re going to start off by chatting a little bit more about being a father.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:38]:
And we’re going to talk about some of the journey that you’ve been on. And I know you have 2 kids, you have a son, and then you have a non-binary child that at birth was a daughter and now is non-binary. And we’re going to talk about that journey as well. So I always start off with a few questions that just to get a little bit of a sense about you as a dad.

Ed Frauenheim [00:03:56]:
Okay.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:56]:
And one of the things that I love being able to delve a little bit into is as fathers, one of the things that we try to do is we try to create those moments, those moments where we can really bond with our kids, really be able to share special times and special moments with our kids as well. What’s one of the most meaningful moments that you’ve been able to share with your youngest and what made it so special?

Ed Frauenheim [00:04:20]:
Thanks for that great question, Christopher. The one that comes to mind with my child Skyla, as you mentioned, Skyla was born in a female body and now identifies as non-binary. Maybe when Skyla was 9 or so, we were butting heads a lot. We were in conflict in, in part because Skyla is quite strong-willed and I can be a little bit controlling as well, or especially back then as a dad. And I remember this moment where I was in charge of making sure the kids, and Skyla in particular, got started on their homework. And I said, Skyla, time to do your homework now. And Skyla had been doing something with like cutouts and, and making some drawings, and they said, I’m, I’m, I’m almost done. Why don’t you draw with me.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:02]:
And I did. I kind of let down my kind of controlling guard, if you will, and immersed myself a bit in Skyla’s world. And they were making these interesting characters, cartoon characters. I can’t remember the name right now, but I learned how Skyla was drawing them, and I drew my own, and it was a loving experience. And then after we did that for maybe 20, 30 minutes, Skyla happily went on to her homework. their homework. And I say her there, Christopher, because you and I were talking before the podcast started about how it’s— I’m still struggling to get the pronouns right, even though I’m trying to honor as best I can Skyla’s non-binary identity. But many years of calling Skyla by female pronouns are still hard to shake sometimes.

Ed Frauenheim [00:05:43]:
And Skyla, to their credit, gives me a lot of grace, a lot of room for growth there, and does not jump down my throat when I throw out a she or her. So anyways, to me, it was a moment of connection, a moment of realizing I could trust my child. I could trust that I didn’t have to be this disciplinarian and give more space in the relationship and really kind of honor Skyla’s will to chart their course and figure out what they want to do and when. And yeah, I had some boundaries to set, but being a little flexible in that moment really made a difference and I think helped us to repair a bond that wasn’t so strong and has gotten stronger ever since in a lot of ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:20]:
All of us are having to balance. And as you talked about, Skyla tends to be strong-willed. You said that you were strong-willed at the same time. And we try to do this balancing act Because all of our kids are trying to find that independence for themselves. And especially, I have a child that’s very strong-willed. And I know, especially in that time where they were first pushing that independence, it was challenging. It was challenging in many different ways because they really wanted that independence. How did you balance guiding Skyla while also giving them the independence to grow into the person that they want to be? ultimately have become?

Ed Frauenheim [00:06:58]:
I would say that a couple of things really helped me strike the balance. One of them was actually my former employer, Great Place to Work, and its mantra of trust. The research that originally began this organization, Great Place to Work, which is the company behind the Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list— it surveys employees and finds out which ones are having the best experience at work— it all came down to, do people feel like they can trust their leaders? Do they trust each other? Do they have good bonds at work? And so this mantra of trust was big for me back in that day. I’ve been out of Great Place to Work for about 6 years now, but I was reminded of it by my wife a lot. She would say, Ed, you’re not necessarily practicing what you preach with respect to Skyla. You say trust your employees and build trust with them, but are you really trusting your own child? And she was right that I often— oftentimes I wasn’t. And I worried that Skyla’s resistance, her acting out occasionally, was a sign that she could be a sociopath. You know, I was like, I was worried that she was just not going to be a civil, polite person.

Ed Frauenheim [00:07:59]:
And, but I was wrong in that. What I found, and I heard this from other parents, Skylar was really wonderfully behaved with almost all of her friends’ parents. And we had school, her teachers, they considered her a model student in a lot of ways and a model friend. They saved a lot of their resistance from Rowena and me, which I gather can happen a lot when, when parents are trying to have a more, a parenting style that’s not governed by fear. Such that we didn’t like try to scare or physically hit Skyla in punishment. It was about consequences. It was about conversations, mostly, these consequences of acting out. So we did set these boundaries.

Ed Frauenheim [00:08:35]:
And as I said with that opening story, eventually I, I kind of came to see it. I could trust Skyla. In fact, I needed to trust Skyla more. And I came to see that strong-willedness as a positive, Christopher. And I saw one of the places I got to see it more was that I think helped me was in on the soccer field. Skyla was a a standout soccer player for many years and ultimately was on the team that won the city championship in San Francisco in high school. And so I think that mantra from work applied by my wife and then seeing how, you know, being assertive, being aggressive is a positive thing in the sports realm, all those helped me to soften and make more space for Skyla in our relationship and I think build a stronger bond with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:17]:
You know, not every time, as you were just talking about, as you’re raising a child is It’s going to be many times where it’s going to be fraught with challenge. What are some intentional ways that you worked to strengthen your bond with Skyla, especially during those challenging times?

Ed Frauenheim [00:09:35]:
I would say that I really tried to be there for Skyla on the school front and the sports front. I coached Skyla’s soccer team up until the end of 5th grade and then was a fan throughout their high school years. And as Skyla got into middle school and then most, a very academically rigorous public high school here in San Francisco, Lowell High School. I really tried to make sure I was there to support them as they studied for AP History, AP US History, read the text with them and watched the kind of notes they were taking, helped with papers. As a trained writer, journalist, could be an editor for them as they, as they wrote papers and they became a pretty good strong writer even in the high school level. So those are some ways I did that. And I think it was a way of demonstrating my love, my deep trust, my care for Skyla. And to this day, they ask me to edit papers and edit memos.

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:29]:
We have that relationship of support, and it’s been, it’s been one of those intentional ways I’ve tried to be a good dad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:35]:
As I said, none of us are infallible. We’re all humans. We’re all people that are going to make mistakes as we go through our own experiences as fathers. What’s a mistake that you’ve made as a father, and what did you learn from it about fostering Better or more positive connections with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:10:53]:
Why do you have to ask that kind of a question, Christopher? The thing that pops up to my mind as maybe one of the worst moments and choices I made was treating Skyla like someone I could control in that early childhood phase into their late elementary years, you might say. Because I remember this moment where we were having a conflict and Skyla was having a tantrum of sorts, wasn’t doing what I, or I think my wife, wanted them to do. And I remember carrying Skylar like a football down the street to the car. I think we had to go somewhere and it was humiliating all around. Like they were too big. I mean, they might’ve been in 2nd or 3rd grade when I did this. And the whole time I’m carrying Skylar literally like kicking and screaming as I’m walking like a block and a half to my car parked in this San Francisco neighborhood. And I knew that they were embarrassed and shamed by this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:11:41]:
And, and I was feeling ashamed of like what kind of an— and especially cuz I was in public. During this time. And I think in some ways that public embarrassment helped me to— that was the last time I tried to physically control their body, you know, when raising them. We shifted toward these longer and more, in some ways, trying boundaries that were a lot about conversation. You do something that breaks a rule or breaks a boundary, we’re gonna talk about it. And Skylar hated that, you know, at times, you know, but they, they couldn’t do what they wanted to do until we talked through it. And that meant Both my wife and I and Skylar were stuck with each other, if you will. But I think that paid off over time.

Ed Frauenheim [00:12:16]:
And I tried to learn from that mistake of manhandling my child at an age that was not really appropriate for it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:
You definitely have to learn and you have to find that balance for yourself and figure out what is right at the right time and what is right that’s age appropriate. Like you said, it’s not always easy to determine and, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes along the way. But you definitely also have to do whatever we can to be able to support them in who they’re becoming, but also who we’re becoming, and know that it’s okay to trip, it’s okay to fall, and it’s okay to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and keep moving forward. And I’ve heard it from many fathers that have been on the show in the past that you just have to own it. And you have to say, you know, if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, and you tell your kid that. And I’m sorry.

Ed Frauenheim [00:13:05]:
Can I follow up on that, Christopher? Because I think that’s a great point you’re making. That idea of apologizing, I have seen that as a strength, something I determined I was going to do from a pretty young age as a father, if you will. And I remember feeling really frustrated that— and with my own father, who rarely if ever apologized for his own anger outbursts, for bad choices as a parent or spouse that we witnessed as the 3 kids in our family. And I feel good about that idea of at least if I have lost my cool or made a mistake as a parent, I have really tried to apologize every time. And I think that that modeled something good for my kids, that they could see that it’s okay to make a mistake. It’s okay to— and in fact, it’s important to acknowledge mistakes, to say you’re trying to get better. I think it’s over time helped them to give me grace as a father as I’ve continued to make mistakes along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:57]:
Every one of us as dads always are trying to find ways to support our kids. And I guess as Skyla has gotten older, what do you do to support Skyla in pursuing their passions and their dreams?

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:14]:
I guess some of the things that I mentioned before, like trusting them, giving them space to do their thing, and to support them academically, that’s continued and taken on some new shapes. Right now, as we talked about before, before the show, Skyla is studying in Bologna, the University of Bologna, an academy of art there in the city of Bologna. for the semester from January to about June. And that program has been wonderful for them. They’re usually— they’re a University of California at Santa Cruz student. And this time abroad has been wonderful. It’s also been really challenging to get through the bureaucracy of studying abroad, of getting visas, of getting the coursework that they need, navigating financial questions, of travel questions. So I’ve really just tried to be there for them as they’ve tried to get through these hurdles.

Ed Frauenheim [00:14:59]:
Like recently, for example, Skylar asked me to help with a a note to one of their professors asking that a class that they took at University of Bologna count as a requirement for a Santa Cruz degree. And so we worked back and forth with this memo or email to kind of make the best case that this literature class should count as a critical thinking, critical reading class for Skyla. So it’s still supporting them with time and energy, but in some newer territories of academic and institutional bureaucracy and requirements. And it’s very gratifying.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:32]:
Skyla.

Ed Frauenheim [00:15:34]:
is increasingly expressive about her appreciation for the help I’ve given and just the way she— they have matured. But the trust I had early on is proving true. They are not anything like a sociopath. They are like an incredibly thoughtful and kind and polite and curious young person. And I get to have that relationship with this ever more mature human being.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:56]:
So we’ve been talking about the fact that Skyla has come out to you as non-binary. Bring me back To that point, when they first shared that part of themselves with you, what was that experience like for you as a father?

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:09]:
It was intense, Christopher. I remember that the moment that it came about was when Skylar was applying to college and put on their UC, University of California application that they were non-binary. And that was the first time I learned that that’s how Skylar was identifying. And there was some mourning that I had to go through. I loved calling Skyla my little lady. That was my nickname for her. I call my wife lady. It might be a little anachronistic, but, you know, it’s part of our internal language.

Ed Frauenheim [00:16:38]:
And I would call Skyla my little lady, and I couldn’t do that anymore, you know. And so I actually started calling them my young person, which is very kind of stilted on some level, but it’s now taken on its own life. So I say, how are you doing, young person? Adapt and adopt their identity. And I would say, even though that moment was difficult in some ways, there was a sadness to kind of quote unquote losing a daughter, I feel like I gained a better relationship over time. I think Skyla, as I see it, really does embody a lot of both the archetypical feminine and masculine. All that strong-willedness, that assertiveness, to me reflects this integration of the 2 sacred genders, if you will. And so I think they’ve kind of come into their own as a non-binary person more than ever before. And so it’s a joy to see them thriving.

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:25]:
And I think the gender identity is a part of that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:
So many fathers have expectations. We have expectations or assumptions about who our kids will become. How did you navigate adjusting your own expectations while continuing to support and love Skyla unconditionally?

Ed Frauenheim [00:17:44]:
I would say that a lot of my expectations were turned into uncertainties with the new gender identity that came about 3 and a half years ago, maybe. And I didn’t know whether Skyla would change how they presented themselves, would change their clothes, or were they going to potentially pursue a trans transition? It was a kind of a new world for me to learn more about, but I have come to really kind of— my worries have eased, if you will, and the expectations are more just Skyla as my child. I expect that they’re going to continue this path, and I’m excited to see how it unfolds for them. They continue to kind of Mostly present themselves in a feminine way. I would say skirts and makeup and clothing that is more leaning toward what you might consider females would wear typically. And I feel like I’ve become used to who they are. And I don’t think about it that often, honestly, anymore. And those expectations that were confused maybe initially, or my uncertainties around who they were going to become, have not really plagued me much or been a lot of what I’ve worried about.

Ed Frauenheim [00:18:51]:
I worry about stuff like, are they going to get the courses they need? Are they going to find a job after college? The kind of worries of probably any father about their kid in college.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:59]:
What are some of the most important things that Skyla needed from you during their transition? And how did you learn to support them as they were going through that?

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:11]:
I’m guessing that Skyla needed to hear that I honored their choice. And it’s funny as I look back at it, Christopher, but I think that one sign of that was getting the pronouns right. And I think that Skylar was a little more sensitive to me misgendering in the earlier phases of their, their shift to being non-binary. And we both sort of relaxed. I mean, I, I wouldn’t say relaxed in the sense of I am completely relaxed about, I don’t care what pronouns I use. I’m trying to use the right pronouns for them. But I would say that they’re less critical of me if I don’t get the pronouns right now than they were initially. But I think I demonstrated to Skylar over time that, yeah, I’m going to honor this.

Ed Frauenheim [00:19:49]:
I don’t totally understand. what it means that I’m going to learn and did my best to do that. I went to some educational sessions or made some connections with folks to understand this relatively new way to my experience of defining oneself on gender terms. And at this point, I think the two of us are largely in sync around the identity and the non-binary identity and treating each other more like father and child.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:13]:
I said at the very beginning that you wrote a book on reinventing masculinity. And I guess as you look at being a father of a non-binary child, how has Having a non-binary child challenged or expanded your understanding of gender and masculinity?

Ed Frauenheim [00:20:28]:
It has pushed me to be braver and walking my own talk. I speak and give workshops in some pretty hyper-masculine territories, a niche of working with folks in the ski lift profession. Kind of a strange, very specific niche that I kind of randomly stumbled into. I love it. I love the folks in there, most of whom are guys, but I still occasionally get intimidated by all these guys with beards and mirrored sunglasses on top of their caps. They’re like tough dudes out there in the snow in the middle of the night grooming hills or clearing out chairlifts. And I can feel a bit of trepidation, a bit of worry when I talk about having a non-binary child, but I typically do. And it’s caused me to have to be brave around not conforming to that old outdated, what I call confined masculinity, where we are intolerant, where guys are intolerant of difference, whether it’s sexual orientation, Whether it’s this gender identity, whether it’s non-binary identities, and to sort of like be very judgmental as men.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:27]:
So I’ve been called to sort of be more courageous. That’s one of the six C’s they talk about around reinventing masculinity, along with curiosity and compassion, connection. You mentioned in the subtitle of the book commitment. I’ll start about contemplation, but but the courage piece to bravely say I am the proud father of a non-binary kid is something that I’ve had to live up to, and I’m glad to say I mostly have, and and most. Most of the response I’ve gotten is positive, or certainly not negative. No one’s challenged me to fight. I’m gonna have to fight you because you’re a father of a non-binary daughter. Like, not okay.

Ed Frauenheim [00:21:59]:
I think a lot of guys, when they’re given permission to open up that cramped definition of masculinity that we— many of us grew up with, they’re hungry for it, and they’re more curious than I would have maybe thought. So that, I think, is one of the main ways I’ve had to live into my own, my own words, my own philosophy. Thanks to Skyla’s choice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:18]:
For fathers whose children may be questioning their identity, what are some practical ways that they can create a home environment where their child feels safe, seen, and accepted?

Ed Frauenheim [00:22:32]:
That’s a good one. I think one thing is to make a lot of space for listening as a dad. Really kind of open your ears up and say, I’d love to talk about what you’re reflecting on, thinking about with respect to your identity or how you’re going to define yourself. So announce that you’re ready to listen and actually do listen. A lot of talking and try to paraphrase, you know, do the active listening that we know helps relationships. I would say another thing is to demonstrate that you’re trying to learn about this territory as well and let your kid know you’re reading articles or looking at other kind of educational content that may help explain this territory. And a third thing might be to try to have some fun with it. And I’m thinking about looking at movies together that may play around with some of these questions of identity, gender identity, non-binary identity, trans identity.

Ed Frauenheim [00:23:23]:
I don’t immediately have one in mind. You know, there’s been a lot of interesting film and TV show content that has been cutting edge in this stuff. I’m even watching a series called La Brea. It’s, I guess, some years old. It’s on Netflix right now, and it doesn’t have the trans piece, but it does have same-sex couple issues in there. And so I’m just thinking about how it doesn’t have to be super heavy all the time. There can be some entertainment built into your joint exploration of these questions of identity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:50]:
You know, I was just thinking that in what you were just saying, that as you’ve gone through this, I’m sure that there have been moments, there’s been things and things that you’ve learned and things that you’ve been able to appreciate in the journey, along with the challenges as well. What’s been the greatest gift or unexpected blessing that has come from walking alongside Skyla on this journey?

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:12]:
Reciprocated love. One of the biggest challenges that I had as a dad of Skyla was that for a number of years, maybe going back to that middle elementary timeframe up through maybe into high school even, like, Skyla was very reticent to say I love you to me. And it might have had something to do with going through adolescence, puberty. She also was very— didn’t want to have hugs either. They didn’t want to have hugs. And I just tried to be consistent about telling them I love them every night. you know, as they’re going to bed. And gradually it has become a two-way street on sharing that we love each other.

Ed Frauenheim [00:24:50]:
It actually may have helped that I’ve had some health challenges in recent years. Like, I had a mild heart attack in 2021 during the pandemic caused by stress. That’s what the diagnosis was. And I remember Skylar giving me a hug in the hospital, and that was very dear, telling me that they love me. And then over this past year, I wrestled with appendix cancer. I’m just coming out of a year’s worth of treatments. I’m cancer-free. of now, and hoping to stay that way for a while, if not forever.

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:18]:
And again, during this time, Skyla has been very caring and giving out hugs and I love yous. And I don’t know if I would have predicted that would have ever happened back when we were in our most butting-of-heads times, around the time that I first talked about when I’m telling her to do their homework. So it’s a delight, and I’m very grateful for our mutual affections, mutual shows of affection.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]:
And if Skyla was sitting here today, what would you hope that they would say about how you showed up for them as a father during this transition?

Ed Frauenheim [00:25:48]:
I would hope they would say I was— they would probably say, Dad, you’re so clueless sometimes. And that’s true. I have been. And I think they have a wonderful relationship with my wife. And I think they see us as playing different roles at times. Like, I’m the lead editor, if you will, on Skyla’s papers, even though Rowena is a great writer as well. And I would hope they would say this, and I think it’s accurate, that collectively, we parents have shown up and helped them get through this time. And thankfully, I don’t think Skyla has had some of the challenges in choosing this non-binary or identifying as non-binary as some young people around the country or the world have, because Skyla has grown up in San Francisco, a very liberal-minded city.

Ed Frauenheim [00:26:27]:
They go to University of Santa Cruz, one of the hippiest schools you can possibly go to. And they’ve been surrounded by family and friends that have been very welcoming and understanding for the most part. So it hasn’t taken a big lift of emotional support from me or my wife, I don’t think, maybe compared to someone who’s identifying this way and in a much more conservative area of the country, middle of Missouri, say. I don’t know, but that— it’s my sense is that it’s more been showing up for them as a, as a young adult, more so, or as much as being a non-binary person. That might be my guess.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:59]:
Now, we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our Dad Connection. 6 more questions to delve a little bit more into you as a dad. You ready?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:06]:
I’m ready.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:06]:
What’s one word that describes your relationship with Skyla?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:11]:
I’ll go with loving. Pretty simple.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:13]:
What’s the best piece of dad advice you’ve ever received?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:16]:
Trust your kid.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]:
And what’s one activity that you and Skyla love doing together?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:22]:
Hiking, or more generally, outdoor recreation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:26]:
And if you could give Skyla one life lesson in a single sentence, what would it be?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:30]:
To try to calm down and trust in how things are unfolding. I haven’t always abided by that myself. I, I get pretty anxious, and I think unfortunately Skyla sometimes follows me in that trait.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:42]:
What’s one thing that you’ve learned about yourself since becoming a dad?

Ed Frauenheim [00:27:46]:
That I can build trust, that I can loosen up. That is something that I’m pleasantly surprised by over the years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:54]:
And finally, what advice would you give to other dads who want to build a lasting and meaningful relationship with their daughters?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:01]:
I think I would say keep at it. Keep being present with your kids, with your daughters. There may be times where they’re pushing you away, And I’m not saying push back to stay right next to them, but I think the key is to sort of make clear that you’re there for them. You’re ready to talk. You’re ready to engage and try to build these activities where you can do stuff together. But the overall message is persistence.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:23]:
Well, Ed, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today and for sharing your journey with Skyla. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Ed Frauenheim [00:28:32]:
I would suggest come to my Substack page. I have a Substack newsletter called frauentimes.substack.com. Uh, where I’ve been chronicling a lot of the, the lessons of this past year of cancer, including my relationship with my kids and Skyla. I can be found on LinkedIn, and I have a website, edfrownheim.com, but happy to, to connect with folks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:51]:
Again, Ed, thank you so much for being here today. I know this journey will only continue. You’ll continue to learn. Skyla will continue to learn, but I appreciate you sharing what you’ve learned thus far, and I wish you all the best.

Ed Frauenheim [00:29:03]:
Thank you so much, Christopher. And it’s great to be here with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:06]:
That’s a wrap for this episode of The Dad and Daughter Connection. Thanks for joining us on this journey to build stronger bonds and raise confident, independent daughters. Remember, being an engaged dad isn’t about being perfect. It’s about being present. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with a fellow dad. And don’t forget, you can find all our episodes at dadanddaughterconnection.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep connecting, and keep being the dad she needs.

Speaker D [00:29:37]:
We’re all in the same boat, and it’s full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time, we give the lessons, we make the meals. We buy them presents. Bring your A-game, ’cause those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast. Calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters and muscle men, get out and be the world to them. Be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:29]:
Be the best dad you can be.

Speaker D [00:30:30]:
Be the best dad you can be.

The post Trust, Growth, and Connection: A Father’s Journey with a Non-Binary Child appeared first on Dad of Divas.