Emotional Abuse and Your Faith

When people don't know what to do? They do nothing!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:58:00 PST

I have been reading about the interview with Rihanna that Good Morning America did with Diane Sawyer. I haven't seen the interview, but from what I have taken from clips and quotes? She speaks very well of a dynamic of domestic violence that most people hear about, but you don't truly see represented within the church. Nor do most people even recognize as part of the dynamics of the relationship even within the secular world.

Rihanna also dealt deftly with the elephant in the room: why she initially went back to Brown after the beating.

"It's pretty natural for that to be the first reaction . . . to go back and start lying to yourself," she told Sawyer. Her love for Brown certainly factored in. "I fell in love with that person . . . so far in love, so unconditional, that I went back." When Sawyer said abused women go back, on average, seven times before they leave, Rihanna corrected her, saying it was typically eight or nine times.

Chances are when women go to their pastors or the church they have already done the 'go back home and submit harder'. Matter of fact they have done the 'hit and hug' dance many times in different ways. Most people think when I say HIT its physical, but anyone that has been in an abusive relationship (man, woman or child) knows the controlling behavior, emotional abuse, and verbal abuse were very heavy smacks as well.

When it first happens you are stunned, and 'hug' part of the dance gives you hope that this isn't going to be a regular part of the relationship. You slowly start to break down when you realize it will be part of the relationship as you master your new skill of walking on eggshells as part of your unconditional love towards them. Your show your honor by apologizing, and allowing the controlling behavior because its something they 'need'.

...a visibly emotional Rihanna explains to Diane Sawyer her thoughts and feelings about the assault, saying that she is "embarrassed" to have loved someone like Chris Brown.

I realize some would take that as an attack on Chris Brown, and if I were guessing Chris Brown most certainly would. In all the defensiveness they completely miss the peephole into her world. That could be one of the reasons why the world has no clue as to HOW to deal with an abusive relationship.

She mentions a portion of the shame that victims do feel, and when in church you are reminded of the unconditional love due to the unbreakable covenant of marriage.

When people concentrate so much on, "How could you NOT see it before you married them?" I guess they don't realize they have added to the shame they are already dealing with, and because of the dynamic of relationship? They fall deeper into the hole, and fills it up with more shame. They realize these people are basically calling them 'stupid' just like their abuser does.

People will say that is NOT what I meant! For those that seem to make intelligent and smart choices for their life compared to you? You certainly realize very quickly they aren't as safe as they claim to be. To deal with them means more shame, and someone else to bow down to before getting help. Why? They don't understand the abusive relationship. They may not have meant the victim was stupid with their choices of spouse, but when dealing with someone that is scared and is trying to hold things together the best they can? That is what they hear.

I remember a lady from my own domestic violence group that was dealing with an aspect that many are truly offended by, and that is the outright anger and rage that a victim feels after they come out the fog. I will make a up a name for her, and call her Laura today. Laura had been married for over 25 years, and most of those years had been marked with very violent physical abuse. When you hear her story she mentions numerous times in which she reached out for help. In the past you truly didn't deal with domestic violence like you do today, and in the past? She was turned away because her husband wouldn't cooperate. Its hard to believe today isn't it?

When people don't know what to do they tend to do nothing. We see the blaming of the victim very often, and that is just another sign of this.

(I want to mention to those struggling now to keep what I just said in mind! It doesn't make things better, but it does give you an answer as to WHY! Its not justified, but it is reality. Look at human nature in history, and you will see people doing nothing when they don't know what to do with all kinds of situations.)

Laura came to group one day a bit bewildered. At this point she was separated from her husband, and was struggling just to keep her head above water. He had abandon them, and taken all the sources of income, etc. I remember she and her children had the utilities turned off, no phone, no money and no food. He made sure he turned off all these things before he left, and removed her access to any martial funds completely. At this point she was just starting to put services together, and finding another job, and learning how to deal with the pain of her children.

That day she mentioned she had a visitor at her door. It was a neighbor that had once lived next door to them. The gentleman came to her at the request of his wife whom had recently passed away. He wasn't there to inform her of his wife's death, but to pass along a message from his wife to her.

It was a message of apology, because they both knew she was being beaten and abused. She also knew she had done nothing to reach out and help her. She would see her in the backyard gardening with bruises covering her body, and would hear the violence next door. The whole neighborhood knew, and the police were called a number of times. No one would speak with this family on any real level, and they were left to themselves because no one knew what to do about it. In truth I do believe that is why domestic violence continues so often. It is because no one knows what to do about it. Knowing its wrong is one thing, but having the knowledge to learn to deal with it? That is completely different.

It seems the guilt of all of this was laying very heavy on this woman before she died. She had her husband promise that he would seek her out, and apologize for her to Laura. It seems it wasn't something small or a passing thought for this woman as the husband spoke of this with her. I think the guilt was also within him as well at the time. He handed her some money, and gave her his number. He told her he wanted to help where he could, and all she had to do was ask. Laura said God sent this man to her, and this money was badly needed at the time. I don't think she ever called the man for help. Shame was also a factor in that decision, and also I'm sure doubt that he could truly do anything was in Laura's heart as well. You can't blame her if you look at the history.

Laura was dealing with a bit rage within her once she got out. Its strange to watch such a small woman, and be almost intimidated by her. She was mad at the world for knowing, and not doing a darn thing to help. She was mad at the excuses they handed her, and also the hurtful comments and advice she received. She was mad that her children were suffering, and that she had nothing to turn on the utilities with for example. She was mad that her husband that was hiding from them, and had hidden the family funds in such a way that left them destitute. She was mad that the threats had not stopped, and that his family was stepping up to make things even harder. She was mad at the world for all kinds of things, and her rage towards almost anyone even in group was recognized by us all.

For the first time in her life for YEARS she was allowed to feel things that she had to stuff in the past. I think at first we all felt she just needed to get it out, and we gave her a little leeway at times. We wouldn't let her go wild with those expressions of rage, but if you looked around the room? Some participates were afraid of her. They were dealing with this own messes, but beyond the fear they were impressed with her 'I will NOT put up with it ANYMORE!' attitude.

I remember one day another woman came to our group very sick, and she needed to go to the doctor. She lived near by the group location, and had no way to get there. She also had no one to watch the children if she did go. It was more fear of if she had to stay in the hospital that meant her children were going to have to stay with her molesting soon to be x husband. The church stepped back from to much help because her husband's family were pretty powerful, and her own mother lived in her selfish little world and didn't wish to bothered.

Laura not only took her to the hospital for help, but got on the phone and shamed her mother into doing what was right. She reminded her that this was her child and her grandchildren. She reminded her that she was retired, and it wouldn't kill her to help in this awful time of need instead going to card game that day. She made the woman feel so badly she did indeed stay for almost a week. Why? A hospital stay was needed, recovery time, and the threat of Laura coming to stay if she didn't do what was right.

I realize her approach to some would look at like she had taken on some of the abusive traits of her marriage in the past. Heck I would even agree with that if you saw HOW she handled some of the situations that day. What surprises me is how people can't realize that was the only way of dealing with life that was available for her for YEARS. She didn't push it as far as the abuser, but it was IN YOUR FACE type of approach none the less. Why it surprises people that she repeats the pattern of behavior that she lived with for over 20 years? Laura did learn to deal with life better in time, but I think part of that rage she needed to get out - and it helped her move pass some of the pain.

The domestic violence shelter removed her from our group one day once they realized that she needed more one on one care, and it truly wasn't a good idea to have her in a group with other abused parties.

I was talking in group about how I was taking a trip to meet some people I knew for years from a domestic violence online support group. My group had heard about them forever, but Laura was new to our domestic abuse group at the time. They were excited for me regarding this camping trip, and actually getting to meet people I had dealt with for years at that point. Laura got mad at me, and then started to push for answers like, "What you are the ONLY one that can GO?" She was telling me how dumb it is to go to a camping site with strangers, and if it was for domestic violence then SHE wanted to GO! She just kept pushing me harder and harder. YES it was irrational, and I just kept my behavior calm and stood my ground. I knew she had no way of getting there, and I told her if she wanted to come - then DO IT!

At that point she was removed from the group, and by the next time we met? We were told that she wasn't coming back. I guess the verbal attack on me was the last straw, and they had attempted to speak to her a couple of times about her approach of others. She was now getting a separate type of help to address this behavior. I was glad she was getting help, and they didn't throw her out completely.

I found out that at times victims do struggle in this area, but they also have a better chance of working past it. If you can get people to own it, and want to change it? It can happen. Laura did get the help she needed, and I think within a year or so she had worked pass that phrase in her life. A friend of mine from that group from years ago I'm still friends with? She was out at a business lunch, and ran into Laura. Laura asked her to apologize for her, and handed my friend her phone number so I could call so she could do that personally. She humbly realized she was completely offensive, defensive, and behaved badly. It sounds like her life has indeed moved passed the anger stage. I think for some people? Its part of the path to healing, and I think I have spoken of my own anger stage I dealt with as well.

If people had just blown us off, and told themselves that the chances are in our relationship with our spouses we were both abusive anyway? If they use the 'anger' stage as you see others do? Its another roadblock towards the healing that people do indeed need. It also shows they don't understand the dynamics of an abusive relationship. Some - not all - deal with fallout of those relationships like Laura and I did. It happens, and I'm glad we found people that helped us grow past it. They didn't tell us we were abusive, but saw our behavior for what it was, and the reasons why. If you look at those that have been hurt badly - and YES at times that even includes abusers when they will admit it - the almost contempt for the world phase does happen to some. When I dealt with it at the time it wasn't as bad as Laura, but that truly doesn't mean squat. I mean we all deal with things differently. This is hardly a competition or comparison. We are custom beings just as God made us.

When I was surfing the internet about the stories of Rihanna recently? I saw alot of really mean comments. Why did she wait until now? Strange how she is coming out with her new record, and NOW she wants to talk! In the Larry King interview Chris Brown wouldn't speak about the dynamics of the relationship out of respect for Rihanna. I wonder if they noticed he decided to do an interview about that period on the VERY same day as Rihanna?

When people don't know what to do with domestic violence? When people don't know how to handle domestic violence when it happens? They tend to do nothing, but they sure like to blame, make accusations, excuses and the rest don't they? It seems to me education needs to be more than a list of behaviors from the abuser, and how to deal with and what to look for in the aftermath would be smart. I wonder how many people will take advantage of that peephole that Rihanna is showing to others about living with domestic abuse? I pray that church does as well even if it is secular! They dynamics of the relationship is there, and gender, race or any other excuse doesn't mean a hill of beans. Its there and I think most of the time? People suffer because the world doesn't know what to do with us, and they basically? DO NOTHING over all!

Stop Wounding Me With Your Mouth

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 05:20:00 PST

I came across an article in The Herald out of Ohio.

Program targets domestic violence Women receive advice, support

By Patrick Cooley
Herald Staff Writer

SHARON —

A dozen women watched as images of women, abused and beaten by their husbands and boyfriends, came across a computer screen at the center of New Life Covenant Church in Sharon on Saturday morning.

Many said the images were hard to watch, and a few were brought to tears.

“Looking at those videos, it brought back a lot of memories,” said Laura, a Farrell woman who asked that her last name not be used. “It was hard to watch, but I think it was something that I needed (to watch).”

Laura, who was a victim of an abusive relationship for five years and stays at the ARC House in Farrell, was among those attending “Stop Wounding Me With Your Mouth,” a program that dealt with domestic abuse, specifically how verbal abuse can be hurtful and escalate into physical abuse.

Each of several speakers urged women to remove themselves from abusive relationships and to reach out to the victims to let them know there are resources to help them.

“I need you to be muscular Christians,” said Lizette Olsen, the director of AWARE, a domestic violence advocacy agency.

She said a survey by the Mercer County court system in 2009 showed that more than 4,800 families in the county had been affected by domestic violence.

“You might ask, ‘Why don’t some of these women just leave?’ ” Ms. Olsen said. “For some of them, this is all they’ve ever known.”

She said that many women come from a culture where they are told this is acceptable behavior, and where they are repeatedly told to keep family matters within the family.

“Shame is a powerful motivator,” Ms. Olsen said.

She also spoke about systematic ways women are degraded.

“It’s not just the under-educated,” Ms. Olsen said. “I’ve had women who are doctors, lawyers and pharmacists who don’t know how much money they make because whenever they get money, they have to hand it over to their husbands, because he tells them they’re a woman and too stupid to handle money.

“One of the most empowering things we can do is take them to the bank to start their own checking or savings account,” she said. “Some of the women are shaking because they’re so scared, they think their husband might know they’re there.”

Ms. Olsen said many men will use the threat of violence as a method of control over their spouses and girlfriends.

Another speaker was Malinda Gavins, who is on the board of directors of the Ohio Domestic Violence Network and State Coalition for Domestic Violence Programs.

When you talk to a domestic violence victim they will tell you they heal from (physical wounds) much more easily than the emotional wounds,” she said. “Those are the wounds the courts don’t want to deal with.”

Ms. Gavins said the youngest victim she’s seen was a teenager whose mother sold her into marriage, and the oldest victim she’s seen was an 82-year-old woman.

“She said the first time her husband beat her, she called her mother and her mother said, ‘Welcome to marriage,’ ” Ms. Gavins said.

She said that making degrading statements about women is something that has become commonplace in the culture and especially in genres of music, and urged parents to talk to their children, boys and girls, at an early age.

“They’re already hearing the music,” Ms. Gavins said.

The Rev. Patricia Tatum, pastor of New Life Covenant, said it is part of the church’s mission to reach out to victims of domestic violence. She said the church will be having classes for victims and anyone interested in attending should call 724-494-8735.

Emotional Abuse and Your Faith has a NEW look!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:44:43 PST

The last couple of weeks I have been working on this new template for Emotional Abuse and Your Faith.

I would like to thank My Blogger Tricks.com for their help, and wonderful skill to help fellow bloggers with their own blogs.

I have been posting alot of lists lately, and I was basically starting new references for my home page. I believe I'm pretty much done with that for now. I just have a couple of pages left, and I SHOULD be done!.

I would love to hear what you think!

YOU can only change YOURSELF, but is that what they are really saying?

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:29:32 PST

IBelieve.com or some people use crosswalk.com recently had one of their Administrator's post an article in the marriage section. The article was called, "Domestic Violence within the Church: The Ugly Truth". The article speaks of what most Christians would feel is a myth about domestic violence within the church walls.

A portion of the article read:

George sites a survey in which nearly 6,000 pastors were asked how they would counsel women who came to them for help with domestic violence. Twenty-six percent would counsel them the same way Marleen's pastor did: to continue to "submit" to her husband, no matter what. Twenty-five percent told wives the abuse was their own fault—for failing to submit in the first place. Astonishingly, 50 percent said women should be willing to "tolerate some level of violence" because it is better than divorce.

To say that some were stunned by the results is understatement. I can't blame them, because to be honest I would have felt the same way years ago. If I had NOT experienced this myself I doubt very much I would have believed such a statement. If you think about it WHERE is the common sense behind the advice that so many pastors do indeed give?

For myself, that was one of the contradictions within the church during my early days that made me so confused. They would tell me, "You can't change a person, because can only change yourself."

I do believe that statement, but the results from the survey that was presented show their actual beliefs go in the opposite direction. Why? When you tell others to permit themselves to be abused or submit more, because it maybe something you did to cause the abuse? It states I can indeed change the other person with my behavior.

'If I submit more I would not be abused?'

They can tell you that is NOT what they meant, but if you look at it clearly? THEY ARE SAYING JUST THAT!

The church states the world refuses to take responsibility for their own actions, and yet at the same time they are hand them excuses over to use! You can change the fact you were abused by (insert excuses).

Does this counsel ask the abuser to take responsibly for own their actions when tell their partner to act NICER so they don't get abused? No. It tells the abused party since they were not nice they got what they asked for.

Again they will say that ISN'T what we are saying! Their pride is now hurt, and human nature will tend to get in the way at this point. I guess their counsel sounds 'spiritual' to them, but it lacks common sense if you understand the dynamics of the relationship. Do they think they can 'spiritualize' the relationship dynamics or something?

Can you apply the same if your spouse was say a thief? If you submitted more to them maybe they would stop stealing? What if they molest children? What if they like to manipulate and deceive others to get what they want? Is submission to those parties going to guarantee their change? I realize some people will use scripture to say you can change others with your chaste behavior. What if the abuser is a female? I guess the man is out luck huh?

I personally think they have an issue with being told they are wrong. You notice they always seem to get tongue tied when it comes to this issue? They get defensive and state we are trying NOT to listen them on purpose. We bought into feminist theology. lol that's always a hot button phrase huh?

Human nature happens within the church, and I think at times its easier just to stay in their bubble instead. When they look to the world they can speak of all the abuses that are out there, and how sad is the sin of the world. How you need to be careful of evil people! When they look to the family? Someone caused the abuse to happen. Could it be that we have issues with their double standards? I mean sin does happen within the church NO?!

I recently was reading an article about pastoral counseling, and christian counseling. My browser window failed me, and lost the article completely. I was disappointed, because the article I was reading made alot of sense. It speaks about the amount of training that most pastor's get for counseling people. I think we all realize they have to get some, but it clearly isn't enough. How could it be? If you look at professionals that do this for a living? They don't get their certificate for their services after one semester of work. For some reason the church feels I guess that the Holy Spirit will come upon them, and they would be granted this gift of knowledge without the true training. I wonder if they would be quick to say the holy spirit would allow them to do brain surgery as well huh? If you speak with pastors about the training they received? Most of them will tell you they don't get training in domestic violence, or if they do? Its not covered very well.

Now if you look at the survey again does it show us that enough training happens in most cases? No!

If you go to any faith board online, read websites or blogs, or maybe even speak of a person at church ... what do they do most of the time? They tell you to approach the Pastor or Clergy within the church. The clergy are given a burden they clearly are not capable of handling. Its not a cut down either. Its reality.

Those with no true training in alot of areas, or lets just say NOT ENOUGH are asked to counsel on issues they don't know enough about! People rely on clergy to help families in trouble, and they just plain don't have the capacity to do so. We all may have gifts when it comes to certain areas, but most people in everyday life would struggle with what to do about emotional abuse and verbal abuse for example. If you read people's comments about the 'lists' you find online about the traits of domestic violence they don't even understand them. When you get remarks about screaming on the list you get statements like: "I yelled at my child yesterday before they placed their hand on the stove. Are you saying NOW I'm abusive for doing so?"

I doubt very much training for domestic violence is the only area they not received enough help in. You do have clergy that will admit they can't deal with certain situations, and have resources for those they feel can help. Then you have pastors like John Piper that actually speak about abuse within the home, and state how they should take verbal abuse for a season or a smack one night. When I look at how clueless these people are ...sigh! They don't even realize they are NOT the safest party to go to for HELP! The message the church sadly does encourage.

Here are some comments about the article itself:

I have found a huge lack of help in the counseling area at church. The counselors have no personal experience in the area or they are just lay people willing to listen. Giving someone bad advice like "just go home a be subservient to your husband" is something I've been told, too. I wish the body of Christ and churches would get real and realize that sin still occurs within the church even though we are Christians. We don't like to admit it but we are all still plagued with this ugly thing called sin. Just because you become a Christian doesn't mean you are cured of all of your sin. Not dealing with it and throwing scripture and a bunch of rules at people without helping them in a more tangible way is basically doing what the Pharisees did in Christ's time.

Do they realize they look like Pharisees? Here is the next comment...

The article doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I've been at CW long enough to see the overwhelmingly disproportionate emphasis on female submission, female servility, quite honestly, in sex, finances, home decisions, everything. If women wear enough baggy clothes, keeps her mouths shut and supports her husband, no matter what he does, then she is right by God.

Not.

and the next...

The article doesn't surprise me either.

America has an entire religious industry of books, political hacks, traveling road shows, heretics, charlatans, seminars, women's groups, bible studies, magazines, pod casts, clothing lines, hairstyles, web sites, DVD sales, flashcards, calendars created for the express submission and control of women.

The escalating level of misogyny supported or tolerated in religious circles is disgusting.

LETS not forget about the biblical roles, and how human nature is regarding some that use this biblical role to corrupt!

And remember, where men hold total power in a church, they are far more likely to emphasis the duty of a woman and the power of being male. Some men will act as servant-leaders, and some will become corrupted by unlimited power, that's just human nature.

Can you imagine if you asked your Pastor to resign?

First, with thinking like that, a lot of these pastors should simple resign. I could not live with all of that blood on my hands if someone followed my advice and died from the result of it. What do I say on judgment day?!

Secondly, this response from 6000 pastors is very alarming. We are not talking a sample of only 100 ministers. 6000 is a very, very large number.

Thirdly, did it ever occur to some of these pastors that perpetrators of spousal abuse are extremely prone to abuse children in many ways?!

I don't think pastors realize in time they may have blood on their hands. They are expected to COUNSEL with little training, and I don't understand why they can't admit that. Its okay! If you feel you need to get more than ASK the church to support you in that area! Do we place clergy in a position that they feel uncomfortable with doing so? I wonder if that is part of it!

I would be extremely suspicious of any pastor I found was given such advice to a battered woman. Maybe he hits his wife too! Why else would he want to protect a known offender and place a woman/family in such danger.

I first heard of this nonsense a while ago when I started to move around the country (U.S.). I was brought up in Pentecostal and Evangelical churches that one would say are very traditional and conservative. Yet I was quite shocked and surprised by this twisted perversion of scripture. My parents had been aware of it but they said they did not know any preacher in the Diocese that thought that way since the 1950's.

This was because something went horribly wrong to a family after a woman took the advice of a preacher and returned with her family to the abusive addict husband's house. Apparently he found out she had talked to the pastor and became extremely angry at the fact that she was "saying bad things about him". He killed his wife and two children (1 and 3) with a butcher knife. The pastor was fired and from that point on domestic abuse was taken more seriously. Too bad a family had to die for change to happen. Based on the results of that survey, it looks like many more will die.

The above poster would be thrown in the 'extreme' pile, and blown off pretty much. If you research abuse enough you will realize her example is the reason they need to educate themselves more, or find appropriate sources of help.

Common sense is always not used, and when you bring that up?

I grew up in the Pentecostal movement. If I was to go to my pastor and use term like "common sense" he'd say that I was being humanistic using my out mind to understand God's word. He'd also say I lacked a circumcised mind and too many Christians use terms like "common sense" when making decisions.

I have noticed when you bring up secular help the church tends to scream about feminism. How they will just talk you into 'breaking up the family'. These places don't 'respect' our beliefs about the 'head' of the family. If you look at their responses can they say THEY do?? It seems to me they don't respect either of them, and at least secular resources will attempt to help.

It is really sad that there are secular groups/ non Christian people who are showing Christ's downtrodden abused children more compassion, love, and mercy than the church is. We really need to think about that. Does it make any sense for these pastors to sit on their self righteous self created islands while nonbelievers are doing the work of the church? Anyone who is okay with that should hang their heads in shame.

If the church would step back, and humble themselves enough to listen to what is being said? They would realize they should hang their heads in shame. The bible indeed speaks about biblical roles, but it also speaks against violence of every type. It speaks about helping the oppressed, and to bring the oppressor to repentance. The survey that was conducted shows clearly that neither party will be brought to healing if submission in the women's case or 'man up' for men doesn't change. These aspects have nothing to do with WHY this happens, and as they mentioned, 'you can't change a person - you can only change yourself'. Changing yourself won't change the party that abuses! They need HELP in that area!

Lack of submission and not being a MAN has nothing to do with WHY they are abused. Lack of knowledge when it comes to counsel towards abused parties is one aspect as to why it continues in some cases. It also shows their arrogance to think being insulting would change anything. The term I have always used for this belief?

Its spiritual pixie dust. Its imaginary help that isn't a reality.

The church is quick to condemn those that don't do as they feel they should to show their 'christian' beliefs, but they never think about the lack of training and spiritual pixie dust to see they could be part of the problem.

If people can figure that out from looking at survey results? If you look at the comments you can see this needs to be reexamined. We need to stop sending people to others with lack of training and knowledge, and then expect them to help bring the prized results. Pastors are quick to mention we must look at all scripture, and not just parts of it. Why then do they do that when it comes to violence within the home?

Abuse, Faith, Divorce and the media!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:30:19 PST

I enjoy reading other blogs, and one of those is Adventure in Mercy. Molly has a wonderful writing style, and gets to the heart the matter in very moving ways.

Last night I went to her site again, and she mentioned that No Longer Quivering is having a Carnival from Nov. 1-4th. This just happens to be another blog I like to read from time to time as well!

The news was pretty exciting!

Beginning Sunday evening, Nov. 1st until we collapse sometime before midnight on Thursday the 5th ~ we’re creating a party-like atmosphere which includes fun & games ~ and even some cool prizes!

Just as soon as we published the dates for our carnival, I got a call asking me to appear on the Joy Behar Show ~ on Tuesday, Nov. 3.

Joy Behar's show is on CNN for those that don't know. If I remember correctly Joy used to be on The View. WELL now I just looked up The View for the website, and I guess she is still on that show as well! Shows you how much television I watch huh? lol!

I was never part of the quivering movement as far as faith, but I have noticed that it really doesn't matter when it comes to abuse within the home and church. Divorce is frowned upon within any type of church, and I hope Joy's show will bring to light how the church tends to ignore domestic violence within the church - no matter what type it is.

Here is a quote from Adventures in Mercy:

The Biblical Patriarchy teachings are so blinding to women in abusive situations, that one common theme in these stories is that the women themselves didn’t know that’s what was going on. How can you? As a dear friend of mine put it recently, it was only after deconstructing complementarianism that she was able to see that her over-twenty-year marriage (of severe physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual abuse) was abusive.

Abusive situations are hard enough as it is, but when you mix God into it and teach women that *God* says they have no rights to personal boundaries, no greater calling than to obey their husband’s will, no power to make decisions about the course of their life unless their husband/head/lord allows them to have it, then, well…

Since then, more contributers have come forward, sharing their own stories on the blog and the forum. Many of them have now left the faith, and, really, who could blame them? When people (like mainstream CBMW leaders) teach that gender roles are part and parcel of the gospel, and that’s what you’ve been taught all your life, um…? Then you really aren’t stretching it to think that you have to leave Jesus in order to escape a destructive marriage.

One commenter on the forum there put it so plainly, explaining that she knew “divorce was a sin,” but living with her abusive husband was no life worth living, so, in the end, she decided to divorce and leave her faith at the same time. Because of the teachings of the Biblical Patriarchy camp, she believed she *had* to leave God if she left her abusive husband…

It sounds like an exciting show tonight, and I wanted to get that out to everyone so they could look for it. It should be an interesting conversation about abuse, faith, divorce on CNN with Joy Behar.

You can check into the No More Quivering blog for updates through out the day as she speaks about this adventure she is on!

I will leave you with a video.

This video is showing quotes of famous male christian leaders who have belittled women by their comments. The pictures are of women who are serving God in different capacities. The purpose of the video is to show how sexist church leaders have been, and still are in some cases. When I read some of them? I was absolutely appalled! You have to wonder if these attitudes were WHY 'feminism' was started to begin with huh?

Faith Based Presentations based on Domestic Violence

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:29:00 PST

Faith Based Presentations based on Domestic Violence

United Methodist Domestic Violence Education Video

United Methodist Domestic Violence Education Video - MPEG Link

Interesting Comments on Forgiving

When Love Hurts: Understanding and Healing of Domestic Violence ..Direct Video Link at bottom

When Apologies are Dangerous - link at Bottom of post

Forgiveness - What is it?

Detours: Domestic Violence Sermon

Taking a Break From Words Sermon

Abuse you can see and hear

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:28:00 PST

Examples of Abuse, Definitions of Abuse

Examples
Without Remorse
Verbal Abuse of Children Caught on Tape
Series of Emotional Abuse and Verbal Abuse you hear, feel, and see Super Nanny
Do you realize what your words can do?
Definitions
Children of Uxoricide - when one parent kills the other
Emotional Abuse
Good information about emotional Abuse
Patrica Evans Verbal Abuse Board
Information on PTSD

Teen Abuse - covers both genders

Shows and Movies for Abuse Support

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:26:00 PST

Shows and Movies

SHOWS

Victim of Emotional Abuse Speaks out on the TODAY show. approx 9 minutes
Toxic Relationships on Today Show. approx 8 minutes
Toxic Relationships on Today Show PT II. approx 9 minutes
Hidden Victims of Domestic Voilence (Discovery Education Channel) 35 min.
Robin Givens Talks about Faith and Domestic Violence
Sacred Silence (Discovery Education Channel) 25 min.
20/20 Segment on domestic abuse
Series of Emotional Abuse and Verbal Abuse you hear, feel, and see Super NannyChild Abuse: Family Matters (Discovery Education Channel) 25 min.

MOVIES

Breaking the Silence - Children's Stories of Domestic Violence

The Color Purple

What's Love Got To Do With It

Gospel of John Day 1

Gospel of John - Day 2

Gospel of John - Day 3

Facing the Giants

Cry for Help - The Tracy Thurman Story

Music

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:25:00 PST

Music Links

Adrenaline Big House

Chris Tomlin - Indescribable

Newsboys - He Reigns

Chris Tomlin - Amazing Grace

Mariah Carey - Side Effects

American Idol - Shout to the Lord

Cry Out To Jesus

Held

How Far is Heaven

Jesus Loves You Whitney Houston

Kelly Clarkson - Because of you

Kirk Franklin - Imagine Me

Mariah Carey - Side Effects with Lyrics

Newsboys - He Reigns

Toni Childs - I've got to go now

Blogs and Websites for Abuse

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:24:00 PST

Blogs and Websites

Because It Matters

Sanctuary for the Abused

Submission Tyranny in Church and Society

Adventures in Mercy

Quivering Daugthers

Woman Submit

Not Under Bondage

Battered Husband Support

Husband Abuse Blog

What about when Mom's the Abuser

Heart 2 Heart For Battered Men

Hotline For Men

Possible sources for help for emotional abuse

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:48:00 PST

Possible sources of other types of help

Safety Plans - Always good to look at more than one!

Sanctuary for the Abused - Separation Safety Plan

Abigails Safety Plan - .pdf file

Focus Ministries Safety Plan - .pdf file

Abuse Devotionals, writing, Poems by: Jacky Hughes

ARIN WHOIS Database Search - look up IP addresses

Emotional Abuse
Good information about emotional Abuse

NCADV

Freecycle - Helpful resource if looking for free household items

Legal Decisions Article

Patrica Evans Verbal Abuse Board

Information on PTSD

The Weaker Vessel - Abuser Database

Read Notify - tells you IP address and location of person sent it, etc.

Stalking Help Resource

Free Hugs - Makes you feel better!

Faith Based Domestic Violence Organizations

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:19:00 PST

Faith Based Domestic Violence Organizations

Broken People

Dorcas Network

Faith Trust Institute

Focus Ministries

JSafe or Jewish Institute

PASCH - Peace and Safety

Rave - Religion and Violence eLearning

Hannah's Socks - What a Blessing!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:45:26 PST

What a cute child isn't she? This is little Hannah of Hannah's socks!

Hannah was a small girl and while helping her mother volunteer at a shelter one day noticed a man with torn shoes, and no socks at all. She asked her mother if it was okay to give her socks to the man.

From the mouths of babes Hannah's Socks organization was started!

2009 Sock Count

Collected: 50,000 pairs
Our Goal: 60,000 pairs

That is the count so far for the year, and this organization would love your help! They donate the socks to homeless shelters, and also domestic violence shelters as well. Such a small thing that most of us don't think about as we take for granted our pairs of socks.

Volunteering at homeless shelters and organizations like this can be a very life changing experience for anyone. I used to go with my parents as a child as well. My father and I would take his plants that were overgrown, and repot them into smaller containers to bring with us when we go and volunteer. Dad had a green thumb as the saying goes, and goodness we would get alot of smaller plants from one HUGE one that he had babied all year. Lets just say our car was overloaded, and needed to be vacuumed each time when we got home! (giggles)

Giving back to the community will not only make your heart feel warm, but it does make a huge impact on others. I was raised with that in mind, and have been doing so most of my life. I encourage everyone to get involved even in a small way within your community, and maybe ask Hannah how to start your how "Hannah's Socks' in your area!

Help Hannah's Socks organization meet their goal! They only have 10,000 pairs of socks left! Hannahs's socks - What a blessing to many!

Zero-Tolerance on Domestic Violence Within the Church

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:17:15 PDT

Creekside Ministries wrote an article Called, A Zero Tolerance Level.

I have to tell you in my little naive world as a same child? I always assumed that the church 'had that' no questions asked because that is how it is there!

When I grew older I knew there were taboo subjects that you need to approach lightly. In the environment that I grew up in? I already felt I wasn't capable of it, or so I thought. I would throw out small hints, and if they didn't follow up? I just wasn't justified.

When I grew to an adult I knew some subjects you just didn't bring up at all, unless you could show you are almost a Saint! They were going to look at my every move, attitude, and it seemed to me like a hunting trip for that one sin they could hang their hat on.

The Ministries first quote:

I have a zero-tolerance level for abuse in any form. It is always sin. It is a completely inappropriate reaction to stress, frustration, demands, disappointments, others' behavior. There are no excuses. We always have the choice how we respond. Period.

I'm sure most can agree with that quote from Creekside ministries, but what I have found is that the 'no excuses' is short lived in most cases. We are going to use an example of someone that truly has their heart in the right place, and accepts what is happening and is willing to help! I will answer in my mindset at the time when I was totally beaten down by the abuse.

I said short lived, and why do I say that? I have seen and read so many times one little sentence goes towards the 'no excuse' portion of their answer, and the rest of the time you are getting the third degree. When you live in a world that is full of fear and doubt? People don't seem to realize their intention isn't going to come across as they would like. I will admit some people's hearts ARE in the right place, but when you don't understand a person's world? It can backfire on you!

In the 'old' days when these items they pointed out to me about ME?

I used the same pattern of behavior I had when growing up and beyond. It was like I had a microscope, and I set it on 'magnify level 1000'. I would just rip myself to pieces!

For Example I might say about a disagreement: "Okay I sighed during our conversation, and he found it offensive maybe? This is what set the whole fight off!?" I was setting myself up to own something - well the after effect anyway - and place all my guilt on a sigh for example.

People will mention that maybe that sigh is did set him off, and maybe he was offended by it. He could have felt disrespected by that, but it doesn't justify his behavior.

Did you see the one sentences above?

If he was listening? Not only would he jump on that 'sigh' with both feet, but he would also feel more justified about it in the future. They don't realize that people that are abusive go on hunting trips looking for some sin to hang their hat on. They also don't realize when they mentioned, 'his behavior wasn't justified' and he will leave that out in the future as if it was never said. The 'offended' and 'disrespected' parts? THAT would be the only source of discussion with him.

I wish someone had mentioned that abusive parties do tend to focus on the parts that would either justify their actions, or use it in a way to smash me over the head regarding their behavior and how I asked for it almost. When you live in a world full of confusion? You aren't looking for that loophole, and they can twist things around to make you FEEL you sin more so than what was intended.

They also don't realize the level of magnification victims use to feel bad about it. They may have pointed this out and to them 'matter of fact' regarding this sigh, but their intent wouldn't be realized to me. They may not "intend" my sigh during the conversation equals justifying his abuse, but that is what I heard. That shows my mindset at the time. I was primed and ready to own it.

Some people will say that is because I was to sensitive.

NO! I was hypersensitive because in my environment that is how I learned I must be. I don't think people count on that part, and I think that is where some communication is lost. They aren't counting on my being hypersensitive due to watching my every move, and every statement to make sure I don't set off a bomb! Its a way of life!

YES the 'sigh' had nothing to with the abuse. It wasn't due to being provoked, or having a bad day even! It was because he made the choice to abuse. I never figured that out until I was told this 1000 times it seems like! People that cared about me figured out that hypersensitive part about me, and they realized I had to get OUT of that habit pattern before I could truly HEAR what they are saying!

In other words, maybe the 'sigh' was a factor Hannah but it still doesn't justify his actions! The sigh should have NEVER sent him over the top like that!

I realize Harry Potter is a taboo subject within some circles, and I don't mean to offend here! I read the books while I was recovering from major surgery. I was bored to death on bed rest, and someone brought them over.

Anyway, if any of you have seen this series of movies there was a character named Dobby. Dobby was the resident house-elf of the Malfoy family, and he served the Malfoys with total submission. The Malfoy family treated Dobby with unkindness and cruelty, often reminding him to do extra punishments to himself when he does something disagreeable to them. Dobby also told Harry Potter that he was used to death threats as he received them frequently by the Malfoys. Though he always did as he was told, he longed to be free of the Malfoys.

During the story Dobby was trying to get Harry Potter to leave the school for his own safety. When Harry Potter refused Dobby set something up so Harry would be hurt, but not killed in hopes that he would scare him away instead. (It was the setup for the danger in the movie) Dobby during the hospital scene admitted to hurting Harry, and you can imagine Harry was upset as we would all be. Dobby decided he would punish himself, and Harry couldn't take watching him hit himself anymore and asked him to STOP! Dobby was always beating himself up, because that is what he was conditioned to do.

I was like Dobby in the movie. I wouldn't iron my hands for punishment, but I would hand myself over for extra punishment when anything disagreeable would happen. Bad Hannah! Bad Hannah...YOU SIGHED YOU SIGHED YOU SIGHED...as my example goes! Guess what would leave the equation completely at that point? 'There are no excuse. We always have the choice how we respond. Period!' His behavior to me was justified, because he always told me it was...and people hinted at the sigh as part of his provoked reaction. I was Dobby just taking my punishment for it.

When people speak of No Tolerance of Domestic Violence within the Church? I think it is always important to realize the Dobby factor in that. I didn't intentionally become Dobby. I was Dobby in alot of ways, and I never really saw that.

Not in my CHURCH!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:45:00 PDT

I was doing a little reading the other night, and I came across the blog called Duh Daily Scoop. The author reprinted an article by By Valerie Strauss of the Washington Post. The article was called, "A Call for Clergy to Spotlight Domestic Abuse".

Glenn F. Ivey is a State's Attorney for Maryland, and he wanted to get out the word about domestic violence. As we know October is Domestic Violence Month in the United States, and he made a couple of calls to the churches so they could take the lead. He figured it would be a 'slam dunk' as they call it. It will be an easy sell! HOW hard could this be right?

"But no, I heard things like: 'Brother, it's a little hot to talk about that one.' Or, 'Well, I'll take it up, and we'll form a task force and get back to you.' . . . And then there are churches where the response to the victim is, 'You have to stick it out.' "

Glenn Ivey is a man that wishes to help the 'weaker vessel' within churches, and the church basically turned their backs on the State of Maryland, Glenn Ivey, and women that he wishes to help. What a 'holy' slap in the face huh? We aren't talking about a few little small towns, or neighbors here after all! We are talking about an entire STATE within the USA, and their churches decided that domestic violence really wasn't a topic they wanted to deal with right now.

The article goes on to say:

On Sunday, gatherings will be held at churches -- including Ebenezer AME Church in Fort Washington -- and community-based organizations across the region for "Project Safe Sunday," an initiative aimed at getting people to talk about the sometimes-taboo subject of domestic violence. President Obama has designated October "National Domestic Violence Awareness Month."

The goal is to help people understand the serious and complicated problem and to spur them to learn how to help themselves and others get out of an abusive relationship.

Mr. Ivey speaks about one of his revelations about how people just can't seem to approach this subject when news came out about Chris Brown and Rihanna. We all know they talked about it, but how they wrap their minds around the reality of domestic abuse? It seems that took him by surprise.

In another Washington Post article Glenn Ivey was quoted with saying:

At least initially, a large contingent of people thought that Rihanna was guilty until proven innocent. Not only were they willing to defend Brown, but they also seemed convinced that she must have done something to "deserve" being beaten. Even after a tabloid released photographs of Rihanna showing extensive bruises and swelling, some persisted in defending Brown. Her decision to reunite with him after the photos were published was seen in some quarters as confirmation that she had somehow wronged him from the beginning.

He was speaking to a many of middle school students about this crime, and he was surprised at the reaction of the children. It was the same, and the stats, stories and whatever else he could show them was basically lost to his audience of children.

The surprising comment that he made finally got these children to stop and think for a moment!

Finally, exasperated, I blurted out, "Do you think Barack would ever hit Michelle like that?"

Everyone in the room froze. One student weakly suggested that "Michelle is big enough to fight back," but I knew I had them then.

"Even if she were a foot shorter, can you ever imagine Barack hitting Michelle?" I pressed on: "Is there anything she could possibly do that would lead you to think she deserves to get beaten?"

At that point, the debate was over. Putting hands on Michelle Obama was somehow unthinkable.

Mr. Ivey commented about how the domestic violence issue needed someone like Michelle Obama to step up and support it. He also mentioned that maybe this was to much of a hot topic even for her. No matter what your political party lines are can you imagine the impact that would have? The fact that domestic violence rips people's lives apart, and that isn't falling along gender lines either! Generations of families dealing with this, and for some? Domestic violence is far too controversial to make that commitment.

He closes:

But this sort of campaign is clearly needed. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that about 1,200 deaths occur each year as the result of domestic violence. Nearly 2 million attacks annually don't result in death but can be nearly as devastating -- such as what happened to Yvette Cade of Clinton in October 2005, when her estranged husband set her on fire. The Chris Brown/Rihanna case is the sort of domestic violence that I see nearly every day in my job as a prosecutor.

On top of all this, the ripple effects of violence continue to rip apart families and distort young minds. Many of the killers that come through my courthouse have a history of domestic violence in their homes. It will take powerful forces to break that generational curse.

For years groups have sought to reduce domestic violence nationwide. We would all benefit from the credibility and charisma that the first lady would bring to these efforts. Perhaps with her help, we could reverse recent trends and reduce domestic violence in America.

I have to wonder if it will take someone like Michelle Obama for people to truly stop and listen. It seems to me that the church is afraid to use our most powerful source GOD as the motivator!

I see people searching for the grey area so they really don't have to deal with the meat of the issue. Recently I wrote about one of the red herrings that stop them, and that would be the 'authority' within the home.

I truly feel people are afraid of opening this can of worms.

Its a can of worms that God would wish to be dealt with, but we humans use scripture as reasons we don't.

You also see this in history all the time.

From Bitter waters to Sweet mentions how Christians used scripture to justify slavery for example! We can't even imagine that today, but it was accepted and believed!

A Wife's Submission talks about Nate Phelps, and how his well known father Fred Phelps uses 1 Corinthians 11 as a tool of terror towards the women in his family. How he can use this power to take away their salvation. Nate Phelps has now completely turned his back on his faith.

Its just like the stories you find about the sexual abuse within the church that Because It Matters brings to our attention. People are so taken back and hurt by the stories they accuse others of 'judging' and remind them that they are a NICE person. They are a man of God. They just can't face they are a fallen man of God. The accusers are normally placed on the hot seat at that point as people search for flaws in their character to use as the excuse. They just can't place the fact that this person can do this using their own freewill. You can't heal broken people if you can't face the fact they are broken to begin with! IT doesn't happen in MY church...afterall!

We have all heard the sermons and read the articles about commitment. How we have covenants that we are fulfill. Men and Women that are abused are asked to fulfill a commitment and covenant by themselves, because their abusers aren't capable of that. What makes it harder is that society it seems can't seem to OWN that fact that they are not capable either. I will admit society is further along in loads of aspects when it comes to the 'world' versus domestic violence within the church!

Sadly, I think Glenn F. Ivey does have a point. It will take someone like Michelle Obama to start the push for the world to see the reality of this sin.

Its not due to being 'provoked' as people love to say.

Its due to two broken people that have separate issues they need to face and deal with.

Sadly, in alot of cases? They may never see it, because the world refuses to. The 'healthy' ones can't point it out, and help because its just to controversial. I guess its easier to blame the broken people. It would be to UN-politically correct to truly look deeper. The next time I hear, "That would never happen in MY church!" I hope they aren't Maryland! If they are I wonder if they will go as far as to ask about the invitation from Glenn Ivey! You know! Check to see if the denial is NOT in YOUR church! I can't believe Maryland is the one and only!

Humor Regarding Men and Feminism

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:54:00 PDT

I had been doing some reading about Christians and feminism. I kept wondering if everyone used the extreme and radical form of it only to make their points. I'm finding that is pretty much the case so far anyway.

I found a top ten list that is MEANT to be humor, and I can see where they are getting their points. Christian Feminism's 10 Ten List:

Top 10 Reasons Why Men Shouldn’t Be Ordained

10. A man’s place is in the army.

9. For men who have children, their duties might distract them from the responsibilities of being a parent.

8. Their physical build indicates that men are more suited to tasks such as chopping down trees and wrestling mountain lions. It would be “unnatural” for them to do other forms of work.

7. Man was created before woman. It is therefore obvious that man was a prototype. Thus, they represent an experiment, rather than the crowning achievement of creation.

6. Men are too emotional to be priests or pastors. This is easily demonstrated by their conduct at football games and watching basketball tournaments.

5. Some men are handsome; they will distract women worshipers.

4. To be ordained pastor is to nurture the congregation. But this is not a traditional male role. Rather, throughout history, women have been considered to be not only more skilled than men at nurturing, but also more frequently attracted to it. This makes them the obvious choice for ordination.

3. Men are overly prone to violence. No really manly man wants to settle disputes by any means other than by fighting about it. Thus, they would be poor role models, as well as being dangerously unstable in positions of leadership.

2. Men can still be involved in church activities, even without being ordained. They can sweep paths, repair the church roof, change the oil in the church vans, and maybe even lead the singing on Father’s Day. By confining themselves to such traditional male roles, they can still be vitally important in the life of the Church.

1. In the New Testament account, the person who betrayed Jesus was a man. Thus, his lack of faith and ensuing punishment stands as a symbol of the subordinated position that all men should take.

Keep in mind I doubt it was meant to be offensive, and some parts of it did make me giggle!

The Abusive Woman Series

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:41:00 PDT

Collection of the posts using the Wife Swap show to point out abusive behavior with a woman.

The Abusive Woman - Watch the other side!

The Abusive Woman - Part Two

The Abusive Woman - Final Part

The Abusive Woman - Final Part

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:20:56 PDT

This is the third and final part using the show from the Wife Swap to show that women can be abusive also.

Part One and Part Two show what has happened up to this point, and Part three? This is the final blowout!

Jay finally blows that leaves the table himself, but he quickly returns at his wives request.

Lin decides she will change the mood of the table, and attempt to show the NICE parts of her week. Tony points out to her that when she was in charge? She never said one selfish thing, or acted in one selfish way. That did NOT go over well in his wife's presence!

Their attempt? It pretty much failed Rebbecca completely. You see the world is about HER, and those nice things? They should be showered upon HER as well!

Tony mentions the exercise routine that she worked out with him, and nicely asked if his wife would like to participate with him after their child goes to school. "GREAT" in a very nasty tone she responds with.

Jay nicely speaks to her, and tells her that this is a good thing. It will be a good thing for the both of them to participate with. Tony knows that if they BOTH do this its likely they continue compared to just ONE of them would be best. He also knows she might talk him OUT of doing this, because she needs him to do other things instead.

Did you see her LOOK as well? Yikes talk about EVIL!

AFTER THE SWAP?

Jay has a new appreciation for his family. He participates more with the household, and spends more time with his child. They have decided there are drill sergeant days and there are going to be sweet romantic days as well.

The BOSS at the other house? It meant Rebbecca got things back to the way she wanted them. She didn't want him to take the DJ job, and he had to decline.

She mentions that she didn't want him to change, and he doesn't need to change. WELL maybe the exercise part was okay, but the rest of it? She doesn't want things to change a bit. Why would she? Where is the incentive for her to?

You see she can say her family is first and foremost in her mind and heart, but actions speak louder than words. Her children aren't first, and her husband? That is FAR from a 50/50 partnership! You had better TELL her it is, but in reality it isn't. Remember when she mentioned how JAY was just going with the motions? She never even attempted them. True abuser fashion!

The exercise part that rubbed off on Tony? HER words, "I don't CARE!" They took a walk, and of course her opinion? Its not a good use of TIME! How long before she demands he stop that now?

When you have an abusive spouse that sees NOTHING wrong with their world? That is going to be HARD to make her see that others may not feel the same way! What makes it harder still? In her own words, "She doesn't care!" That woman is terribly emotionally and verbally abusive. At this point I think Tony is totally broken, and doesn't know what to do. He shows his love, and all she wants is MORE! Remember she wants her 50/50!

Tony was just being thoughtless, and YES even arrogant! He saw that and is in the process of changing that. YES people can change, but you have to admit what is there in order to DO THAT! I didn't truly see fear and intimidation on her part (Lin) towards Jay. I can't say that with Tony! He is intimidated by her!

Could a bit of assertive nature help? SURE it could! Can you imagine HER reaction to that? If I were guessing I doubt anyone ever pointed this out to him. In real life? He would be shamed by others for NOT being a man. NOT HELPFUL but hurtful advice. Break him a bit more why don't you?! Women are told to be nicer and more submissive. Men are told to STEP UP. Neither forms of advice are helpful, nor do they care fruit. The chances of Tony being in denial to help him deal with his world? VERY likely just as woman do.

What people don't concentrate on to much? The other side of this. How to handle the I DON'T CARE and GET OUT OF MY WAY type of person? They care MORE about themselves than anyone. Where would the incentive be to change? To see the light? To COME out of the COMA?

The Abusive Woman - The other side. You see abuse isn't about gender. Its about brokenness. Its about hurt and pain. Its about denial and control. Doesn't matter the gender does it? Its there no matter WHOM it happens to!

The other parts of the series of the abusive woman

The Abusive Woman - Watch the other side!

The Abusive Woman - Part Two

The Abusive Woman - Part Two

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:20:15 PDT

Yesterday I started to talk about the Abusive Woman using a show someone sent to me. The show is Wife Swap, and we have the two button pushers from both families living together. The more laid back counterparts? The are in the other home.

What's funny is Jay mentions, "When is she going to come out of her coma, and realize that the world doesn't revolve around her?"

ITS true in this situation, but its also true with his viewpoint towards things! He will at least come up for air in time!

It has been 4 days of her sitting on the sofa, and playing sick. She refuses to even do the dishes, because HE needs to realize marriage is a partnership. (giggles - oh boy!)

She totally dropped the ball with everything, because she doesn't 'want to'. I was surprised at how nicely he put it to her in a confrontation, and telling her he will treat her like a queen next? YIKES! That will help huh? NOT!!

THE SWAP Happens!

Lin decides she will be the new boot camp instructor within the home. What was kind of neat about that was she was going to TRY to get HIM to feel better about himself. She was going to be that 'helper' we hear about. Her whole focus is HIM, and she will try to help him get control of his life as she puts it. She will also place some focus on the children that Rebbecca also neglects.

Did you see the man's face when she told him HE was going BACK to being a DJ!!!!!!! He lit up didn't he?

Jay on the other hand is told that he will cook, clean, and do all the WIFE role stuff. What is his attitude compared to her's? YES MAME!

She took away the army clothes, and told him he WILL get involved with his daughter's interests this week. No more exercise, but quality family time!

She also wishes to show him a bit of spice and romance that his wife will feel once she returns. He is a bit insulted by the fact she insists he doesn't appreciate his wife, and he leaves the room upset.

Tony of course didn't take to the boot camp exercise to well at first, but she didn't scream at him over it. Its hard to change your lifestyle, and would be for anyone! Their daughter loved the attention given to her at cheer leading practice, and its clear she misses that from her mother.

Jay packed away his boot camp gear, and JUMPED right into his duties.

Rebbecca made some claim about him just 'going though the motions' so he can turn back to his old ways, and continue to be selfish. She basically projected things she will do to him. This is typical abusive behavior.

Its amazing how she can't see that trait within herself isn't it? That is what she did at the end! He didn't JUST go with the motions, but saw the light. You will see her ingrained root of rage, and control tactics the whole show.

Since Tony doesn't wish to take his exercise routine seriously Lin decides a major checkup at the doctor is needed to wake him UP! After the doctor scared him enough? He decided his children were motivation to take his health seriously, and stop being selfish as he put it. I hope he sincerely sticks with it. He seems like a nice man to me. I wouldn't wish anything to happen to him. He seems like a good DAD!

Jay of course as you can imagine is getting tired of being 'bossed' around, and confronts her about the 50/50 cut in her home. Its amazing she was SO SICK that she couldn't take the trash out, but sit there and complain about it. She could start the dishes, because she was able but refused to. He was doing it all, but he needed to step UP according to her!

Jay admits its amazing how someone can sit there and look at you with a straight face, and LIE about their contributions.

Abusers are very good at this. I have to wonder HOW they can do this myself!

Can you imagine people telling you that you may be a bit sensitive about that? How maybe you are making a mountain out of a molehill? Maybe they just need to feel your LOVE a bit more? Talk about frustrating and feeling not heard huh?

Victims hear this regularly. NOT just by the abusers, but from support systems they attempt to reach out to. HOW can they get control of things, and change the dynamics when everyone is not listening, or can't validate them in any way? If you can't admit how bad it is, and try to just sugar coat it? It brings helplessness to some, and downright anger to others. You can't blame either of them!

Lin is finding she feels good about giving support, instead of always ASKING for support all the time. She really can't feel that way at home if you look to Jay. He is the BOSS and LEADER of the home, and she is to follow orders. She maybe leading Tony at this point, but the attitude and intent is not the same is it? It seems to me that is the proper view of leadership. Why? People respond to that in a way that is good for everyone! I'm sure it looks different for other families, but I'm talking her approach. IT helps the family, and doesn't have to concentrate on feeling like the LEADER!

When it comes to 'family time' Jay is finding he has a whole new respect for what his wife does.

He also is finding that his little girl? WELL she isn't such a 'little girl' anymore, and he better get more involved with her life before her childhood passes him by.

Both Jay and his daughter are disappointed in Rebbecca that she is either sick or doesn't wish to do things.

They notice that she says one thing, and does another. As you can see from this dynamic it is not only Jay that is being taken advantage of in some ways, but its his daughter that is being neglected. Its not just the spouse that feels things, but the children as well.

Tony gets to try out his DJ job, and you can see how MUCH he feels good about himself in that role. Its like he has a new spring in his step!

His old radio station also offers him a job when he is ready. That just totally made his day! You can see even his daughter was excited for him, and she saw clearly how much that impacted him!

Jay and Rebbecca decide he needs a romantic dinner to remind him that his wife could use a little romance in her life! What happened when Rebbecca is called to task over her laziness, excuses, and la la land talk?

She refuses to participate and leaves.

How does she handle the confrontation at that point? She not only leaves the restaurant, but leaves his home to goes to a hotel. The next day she refuses to say goodbye, and goes to the spa instead.

All these shows end when the couples met together at a neutral spot, hug, and then go and sit down all four them together.

Rebbecca can't stand the attention of the cameras at this point, and totally refuses to participate in the last portion at all.

She threatens to stop the show if they don't get TONY in the car with her NOW!

Abusers do this all the time. They sabotage things they don't like when things get uncomfortable.

They don't like it if they are going to be confronted, or face with their own character flaws. She refuses to have ANYTHING to do with ANYONE! That was her form of control.

Tony has to remind her NOT to get mad at him because he is on her side. You notice she attacked him right off the bat? If something else is bothering abusers in life its quite normal for an abuser to attack their partner. Things are uncomfortable for them? They snap their partners heads right OFF! Does she sound like she would be in the mood to receive a nice, "Back off will you please" speech?

She makes it quite clear to him if he doesn't do as she expects? There will be hell to pay once she gets home. She does this before SHE allows any further production to continue! ON YEAH spoiled is a good word for it! Control freak abuser is another!

When Tony finally gets her to the table Jay makes it clear it was more than rude of her to make all of them wait. Granted maybe he could have done it differently, because I think he knew what her reaction would be. HE does have a point none the less!

Tony attempts to stick up for her, and Jay tells him how it was ALL WEEK! She of course interrupts, and he asks her to LET HIM FINISH! Abusers interrupt all the time, and in their intimidating ways? Victims don't normally get a chance to finish. They just won't listen to it. If they are pressed to? Chances are good payback is coming, or downright silent treatment is your punishment.

I can tell you right now Tony is going to be trouble as SOON as he gets in the car with her. HOW DARE he let that man even OPEN his mouth!

She made all kinds of excuses as to WHY she didn't help with anything. She was sick. She wasn't suppose to do anything. He points out to her that she didn't' have any issues sitting around doing nothing but barking orders!

The other parts of the series!

The Abusive Woman - Watch the other side!

The Abusive Woman - Final Part

The Abusive Woman - Watch the other side!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:19:32 PDT

From time to time people point out shows they have seen online that presents abusive traits in people. The one I wanted to show today was from Wife Swap, and we are going to SWITCH roles a bit! Why? The woman is the abuser!

I'm sure most of you know that I don't see abuse just in the eyes of women, and I do believe both sexes can be targets of abusive people.

Its an interesting program, and you can see good things and bad things from both families.

Johnson Family - Lin and Jay are the fitness family

Blackburn Family - Rebbecca and Tony are the at home business couple

The Johnson family not only surrounds their world with Fitness, but his military background encourages the extreme form of in charge type of leadership. Jay spends more time in his chosen lifestyle than he does with his daughter. After the introduction his wife Lin admits that she is in submission. She will mention that she does everything he does, plus all the housework duties. His response? 'You love our life don't YOU!' She wishes he could place the boot camp and exercise drills aside along enough to have something else in life. HEY maybe a little romance! His daughter wishes she could have more attention from him.

The Blackburn Family is a couple that claims things are done 50/50, and they also feel fitness is important. According to the program? She is the 'controlling force' in the home, and if fitness is important why he is over 370 pounds states the show producer. He does everything in their home while she sleeps, watches TV or gets a snack. What I giggled at? When the wives left for their new home? Tony says to Rebbecca, "Remember don't be to bossy!" During the introduction he mentions that she is not mean, but she likes to be obeyed. She said she doesn't see what she will gain from the swap personally, because everything she does is pretty right (with a huge grin). She didn't heed his advice later on regarding being bossy, and her abusive entitlement came into play.

When you hear the introductions you can see right away that the main button pushers? They will be living with each other in the SAME house! Jay and Rebbecca together? THIS will be fun huh?

You can see both of them have a bit of entitlement issues, and both of them seem to be in denial of things. Some people don't realize HOW they are coming off, and HOW things effect their families. Jay was open to changes after the show was complete, but Rebbecca wanted everything the same.

Wonder if either of them will wake up and smell the reality? WELL at least we know ONE does!

At the beginning the new wives arrive, and they read a little instruction manual as to how their home is run. As I'm sure with ALL of us if we had this happen would have giggles, OH BOY'S, and YOU have to be kidding me moments!

Tony is scared that she is going to work his butt off exercising, and I giggled because she knew he felt that way. You could tell she was going to attempt to be sensitive about this. Their daughter was thrilled because she helps cheerleaders in their fitness (cheerleading is the child's hobby) business. She is excited to know someone will be involved with her activities now.

Rebbecca tells Jay right off the bat she is spoiled, and his arrogance over the health and well being of his family is stated. He of course hints around at her lack of fitness. That doesn't sit well with her of course. There are ways of doing that, and other ways that cause people to be defensive. I think Jay doesn't seem to recognize he does get people defensive.

Lin is uncomfortable with the spoiled life style, and Rebbecca doesn't like to be taken advantage of. SHE claims that 50/50 deal arrangement for her home is what she is used to. She never sees that 50/50 never existed in her home, but loves to say it all the time. Quite normal for an abusive personality. They claim all kinds of things, but have nothing to back them up. I have wonder if saying things enough makes them actually believe it. Defensive mechanism for themselves maybe? I don't know.

When you go about 4:31 into the program is where Jay is attempting to be nice (although he is arrogant)about how she needs to get in shape if she wants to be there for her children. Hints that she will have a heart attack one day. I don't think I would have liked to be spoken to in that manner either, but part of the swap? Its to live the other families life for a week. She pretty much told you she isn't going to do that. When the going gets tough? The abuser digs in their heels.

If you watch closely they both Jay and Rebbecca TRY to get their points across to the other, and BOTH of them use diversion to pretend they didn't hear the other person's points.

As you can see both of them would NOT be very easy to get along with, or to find a place of resolution with. How great and grand would that be for anyone within a relationship if you are NOT able to resolve things? If they are able to? How completely exhausting that attempt would be! Can you FEEL IT?!

Then you have the two submissive parties in the other household. She was respectful to him towards his weight, and he appreciated it. You could tell he was ready to be attacked, and I'm sure we both KNOW by now who made him feel that way in the past.

One thing that did enter my mind as I watched this was hearing Pastors tell me this is a good example of how women wish to take over their leadership within the home. THIS is what happens when leadership is being usurp by women.

Given her attitude and you swap gender roles?

WHY the church would feel this dynamic within the couple would feel MORE comfortable to women? Think about that for a minute. I mean WHO WOULD?!

If it makes you squirm why would it not make others feel uncomfortable as well?

This has NOTHING to do with people 'wired to lead', etc. Its cruel and oppressive, and it would have that effect on anyone. You notice he is effected by this, and women in that area are not wired any differently. We are talking character flaws, and not ROLES here! Her behavior if it was a man would be used as showing leadership. If I were guessing unless a man had video tape like this? He would be dismissed in his way as well. They could be harsh and cruel to the man as well by telling him to MAN UP as well.

Its strange to me how people feel belittling people in that fashion would have a good outcome!

It has nothing to do with his 'manhood', and everything to do with unhealthy dynamic within their lifes.

DAY two happens and Rebecca refuses to get out of bed. Jay goes on with his day, and in his nasty mindset decides to mock her at practice.

She of course decides to deal with life with snacks and television. Remember she already made up her mind to dig in her heels. He isn't getting anything from her at this point. In her eyes? He started things, and she will end it her way.

SHE isn't going to do ANYTHING if she doesn't want to!

YOU are NOT going to force her, or talk her into it either!

She has an excuse for everything, and guess what?

THAT can cause resentment can't it? It would make no difference what gender it was, because resentment will happen with this 'I don't care' attitude! I will do what I want, and you DEAL WITH IT' attitude! Hinting at submission of just doing it? That enables bad behavior, and doesn't change a thing. THAT is what they WANT afterall! They like it the way it is! Why change it? They see no need, and there is nothing in it for them. They see no incentive AT ALL!

Part Two of the "The Abusive Woman - Watch the Other Side" is tomorrow!

The Abusive Woman - Part Two

The Abusive Woman - Final Part

Pastor Chopped a Deputy's hand off.

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 07:25:05 PDT

I was a bit stunned by the story I found online. Bizarre Crime of the Week posted about Pastor Curtis Watts Chopped Off Deputy's Hand. I dug a bit further, and WSFA had additional article and video on this story. Deputy's hand severed by axe was quoted as saying:

By Elizabeth White

CLAY COUNTY, AL (WTVM) - A Clay County deputy is slowly trying to regain the use of his hand, after it was chopped off by an axe over the weekend.

Deputies say the man who swung the bush axe was local pastor, they were trying to arrest.

Sources tell WTVM News Leader 9, Curtis Watts is the man who severed a deputy's hand with a bush axe.

Investigators say it all happened when a Clay county, Alabama deputy tried to make an arrest. Another deputy stepped in and shot and killed the man, identified by viewers as Watts.

"I never knew him to act violence he was always easy going," said James Crawford, a family friend.

Longtime friend, James Crawford, says he's heartbroken. The man he knew, built a church near his home and traveled to pastor at several churches in Clay and Randolph County. In addition, the man he knew sang gospel music.

"He went and would go singing he pastured shinning lights church for two years they would call him on Sunday and he would go pastor at other churches he did not have a regular church," said Crawford.

Investigators said the deputies hand has been reattached and he has moved his fingers. Meanwhile,

Crawford believes Watts was mentally ill. Still, he can't believe his friends life ended in such a violent way.

"I have no idea no clue I know he was a good Christian man I never thought this would happen but we don't understand these things sometimes," he said.

Clay county investigators refused to comment on camera. However, they did email us this release.

News release from Sheriff Jean Alexander of Clay County:

On Friday, September. 25, 2009 at approx. 9:30 p.m. the Clay County Sheriffs Office Special Response Team traveled to a cabin located on Saw Mill Road occupied by Mr. Curtis Watts, 48 years old.

Sheriff Jean Alexander had deemed this to be a High Risk warrant due to a previous domestic violence call responded to by other Clay County deputies earlier in the month on Sept. 15, 2009.

Mr. Watts was armed with a high-powered rifle during that encounter. A deputy was required to deploy his taser, and with the assistance of other officers, was able to secure the arrest. Mr. Watts was released on bond.

On Friday, September 25th, a family member had signed a new warrant of arrest and obtained a Protection from Abuse Order earlier in the day. Mr. Watts was not at the location on the first attempt to serve the warrants; however, the family notified the team leader again later that evening of Watts return to the cabin.

The Special response Team went back to the location on Saw Mill Road. Upon arrival, the Special Response Team announced their presence and identified themselves.

As they approached the front doorway, Mr. Watts came out, armed with a bush axe, and began swinging this deadly instrument. He directed the attack towards Sgt. Jason Freeman, the team leader.

In an attempt to defend himself, Sgt. Freeman deployed his taser. Although effectively striking Mr. Watts with the taser, Watts continued his assault towards Sgt. Freeman. In the first set of swings, Watts severed Sgt. Freeman's right hand. Sgt. Freeman attempted to flee but Watts continued the attack, missing Sgt. Freeman with additional strikes. To protect the life of Sgt. Freeman, another member of the response team was forced to use deadly force against Mr. Watts.

Mr. Watts was pronounced dead at the scene.

Because of the fatality, in accordance with standard operating procedures, the Alabama Bureau of Investigation was promptly notified and called to the scene. Any event involving a fatality and a member in law enforcement, an administrative inquiry is initiated and such is now pending.

Sgt. Freeman was air-lifted to a hospital in Birmingham. Sgt. Freeman underwent two surgeries where his hand was re-attached. He is doing well, but a long-term prognosis is undetermined. The Clay County Sheriff Office thoughts and prayers are with Sgt. Freeman and his family, and with the family of Mr. Curtis Watts.

To me this man clearly had issues. I know in certain small southern towns they feel that justice needs to be kept within the community, and have issues with outside forces like the police in this case. Do I know if this is true with this case? No I don't.

The Pastor had signs like, "Enter at your risk! There are eyes watching YOU!" all around the property. The story really doesn't mention if there were other reasons like a crimes recently in the area as to WHY this pastor needed signs like this surrounding his home and property.

The close knit communities, "We do justice within" type of atmosphere would also be why signs like this would be there. You can imagine how explosive that can be if you have someone that is a bit more paranoid about the outside world than others.

If this man was truly mentally ill as the story claims? Its ashame his church didn't step up to help him. His actions clearly show a strong sense of entitlement. The restraining order he wasn't going to put up with, and he wasn't going to let the police let him arrest him due to him ignoring it either. There would be no protection from the abuse in this case.

Newspapers like to point the extreme cases like these, but its up to the communities to deal with things before they get this bad.

Domestic Violence Month

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 07:27:22 PDT

Its refreshing to see slowly you are seeing articled based on faith and domestic violence. To little time to comment on all of them. I wanted to link to a few for reading!

sydneyanglicans.net has an article entitled: Domestic violence

My Journey though motherhood, life, and now birth mom

Bruises Under Cover

Society of Christian Psychology

MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:46:43 PDT

Niki Made Her Choice and, Apparently, So Did We...

That was the title of the latest article I read on Internet Monk.

It reminds me of this 'My way or the Highway' stinkin thinkin at times.

Disclaimer TIME!

I wanted to point out right now that this subject matter isn't placed here due to my beliefs, or how yours are wrong or right. Its just an example to view things a bit different. I'm using this hot topic as an example only.

END of disclaimer, and BACK to the Internet Mock article!

It was an interesting to me. It was a story of a make believe person named Niki from Japan that came to America for a short period of time to attend a Christian School for a year.

She came to America as an atheist, and went back to Japan as an atheist as well. Why? She believed in evolution, and if you are Christian you just can't believe that!

Evolution isn't the subject matter of the article, but throwing people under the bus over it is. Evolution wasn't worth throwing away this person over.

I speak about many churches and pastors on my blog, and I would never go as far to tell them they are NOT a believer just because I can't accept their dogmatic doctrine. I may not agree on their narrow view of things, but I can see they believe in GOD!

Doctrines you MUST believe or ELSE!

You hear in church all the time about the 'throw away society'. They are so quick to throw away their marriages. They are to materialistic. They love their sin.

To me you can have strong beliefs about one area, but WHY throw people away if they just can't get their mind around ONE small section of the bible like this subject - creationism?

Wouldn't Jesus want us to show them other portions of the bible that would TURN their whole life around? I have seen scare tactics within churches that if you don't agree with some portion than they seriously question your faith in GOD!

YOU know - MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!

I have seen it in all kinds of areas. If you allow your children to trick or treat on Halloween. If you are taking depression medicine. If you waffle back and forth on certain tragic circumstances with HOT topics like abortion or homosexuality! If a woman works than she is allowing daycare to raise her children.

Don't struggle or question or you are OUT!

Here is a portion of Internet Monk's article, and the comments are also thought provoking! TO ME its interesting to read, and the comments were awesome! They get you thinking! That's the POINT!

Here is the quote:

So Niki, who heard the Gospel message of God’s love, life and forgiveness in Jesus, also heard that non-Christian science mostly can’t be believed, most scientists are atheistic conspirators in a plot to eliminate God from our culture and real Christians renounce any belief in the conclusions of secular scientists and embrace Creationism.

Niki, who heard about Jesus for weeks and weeks in her Bible class, could not bring herself to believe in creationism, so she cannot be a Christian.

Did Niki meet anyone who believes the Bible is true, but didn’t believe that science is a vast conspiracy? That the answers aren’t all to be found in the Creationist movement? That you are not forced into the “either/or” choices between Jesus and science that so many Christians insist on? No one knows, but if she did, they were few.

Did Niki receive any encouragement from someone who had managed to answer these questions and still survive as a scientist in the evangelical community? Did she meet anyone in the sciences who still believed in Jesus and the Gospel? Did she meet anyone who was a professing Christian and also a person who worked in mainstream scientific fields of research or academics?

So Niki has gone back to Japan as an atheist. The seeds were sown and perhaps they will take root and bear fruit. Perhaps one day Niki will write and say that she has placed her faith in Jesus and has abandoned her confidence in the usual scientific models of the origin of the earth and human beings. Perhaps Niki will tell us she found a church and has given up her beliefs in science so she could embrace believing in Jesus.

If Niki goes to MIT, or works for NASA or cures cancer or AIDS, will she remember her journey among evangelical Christians as an encouragement to be a great scientist?

Or perhaps Niki will go on being an atheist.

For many Christians, that will continue to be an acceptable outcome.

My first thought when I read this? Major BLECK! The sad part? Its true of some Christians.

Try to FORCE someone to believe one certain aspect instead of talking about Jesus and what he wishes to give? I'd rather start with Jesus. God can get a hold of people on his own, and transform what he wishes to transform. Why do we forget that part?

As one poster said:

We should be careful of which “facts” we become dogmatic over or we fail to become salt and light and risk becoming a poison instead.

Another poster mentioned they were a teacher, and they spoke of the fear of even talking about certain areas. Here is the quote:

I love talking about the Large Hadron Collider. I think it’s fascinating. But when I explain what it is and what scientists hope to learn from it, I get students who are both awed and some who are furious. Why the anger? At that age, I think some of it is just sub-culturally absorbed, but for others… Anger is often a mask for fear; they can easily be triggered by the same stimulus, and both are a basic psychological means of dealing with a problem or unwanted element that are often conjoined for this reason. But if this anger that arises is really a mask for fear, then why the fear? This suggests to me that people’s faith is fragile. They have to protect it from the evils that might shatter it, and then what would they have? Wouldn’t it be wiser to find ways to strengthen that faith as opposed to just sticking it in a plastic bubble?

I think we all know there are areas that we struggle in, and we shouldn't go there! We all have different areas.

For example you would NOT want to send an alcoholic into a bar to share the Gospel! If you wanted to reach those in the pub? Sending people that don't struggle with alcohol would be a GREAT idea! To the alcoholic? That could be a stumbling block, and maybe send them to speak to the swim team instead!

PLEASSSSSSSSSE DON'T EVEN GO THERE!

In college I enjoyed learning about different faith systems. I took classes, read books, and studied the different beliefs. It was truly exciting for me. I not only got the history, but a good look at what and why they believed certain things. I'm sure my 'history' bug was part of that. I truly LOVE history!

I also realize that some would be put off by that. WHY would wish to do that? YOU might FALL into their TRAP! That may lead you into sinful areas! You may LOSE your faith in GOD!

(Shakes head) It may very well do that to them, because that is something they may struggle with. I had no issue whatsoever there, and if anything it strengthened my faith! Some may question my walk and commitment because I went places that may tempt some. It didn't tempt me at all, and them saying it MIGHT have doesn't change that either. 'WELL IT COULD HAVE!', they say. Sigh.

Sometimes I wonder if opening people's minds at bit may make them fear that they will lose their faith. Faith can't be all that strong if you have close yourself up completely. Fear is NOT something our faith wishes us to have in this area is it?

They can't even wrap their minds around this difference, because its MY WAY or the HIGHWAY!

I do tend to wonder at times if faith IS fragile for some people. I read some beliefs by some about HOW they refuse to celebrate Christmas for example. I don't have an issue with them NOT wishing to celebrate it like others do for their own personal reasons, and how they realize this may trigger something within them they wish to avoid. That's fine! When they question MY faith and walk because I don't have the same triggers? That is an area we can use different people for different purposes. We are custom afterall!

People will use 1 Corinthians 8 in a way to show you that you must believe as I believe or ELSE! In the case of Niki from Japan? Was their stern belief in the creation story ONLY worth losing her completely?

Why can we NOT allow God to move her in that area (if we feel its needed) while we show her that Jesus loves her, and he wishes her to be saved? I mean is God NOT going to allow her INTO heaven if she still questions the big bang theory for example compared to the story of creation?

Would our STERN policy on creationism not cause her to stumble? Do our 'must have' doctrines cripple our ability to share the Gospel?

As one poster stated:

I think another stumbling block for non-believers is the stubborn (and possibly dishonest) refusal of many Christians to admit the obvious: the Bible is really, really hard to understand. It doesn’t “explain itself” and it requires a great deal of knowledge that can only be gained outside of its own covers.

That was profound to me!

Science to me at least opens doors to what God created on this earth that may not be covered in the bible. I mean THINK of atoms and molecules for example. We have learned ALOT from the study of those! Its impacted every area of our life.

It's amazing the knitting that God did to place things together they way he did. I mean WOW! The more we understand about the science the more we advance all kinds of things. I realize SOME good and SOME bad okay?

Do I believe hook, line and sinker every aspect of science? Heck NO! Do I have to in order to accept Science?

I wouldn't think so since there are all kinds of theories out there that were proven false. It doesn't mean the study of the molecules and atoms aren't still pretty AWESOME! If you think about it some FAILED theories open doors for others that were beneficial to us.

I JUST don't understand the fear of science or psychology for example. I don't agree with all aspects of it, but some of it makes a lot of sense! What is even stranger? That KNOWLEDGE made parts of the bible more clear to me as well! Imagine that?!

The article that the Internet Monk linked to another interesting one as well. One of the stories spoke about a man that was a Scientist. He was a strong Christian man, and yet his occupation separated him in alot of ways from the other believers. He would be stepping on fragile areas if he spoke of his work to often.

Here is a quote from Timstafford's Blog:

Over the years, this became problematic for my friend. He was loyal to his church and appreciated its work in his life. But his life as a scientist was completely excluded. Most of his day was spent in the laboratory. His ambitions and joys were largely wrapped up in his research, but he felt that talking about it with church friends was awkward, almost embarrassing—as though he were describing an intimate bodily function in mixed company. As the years went by, and he became an increasingly prominent scientist, this split existence became more and more uncomfortable to him. He grew increasingly detached from the life of the church.

MY way or the HIGHWAY!

Why his work was worth throwing him away? Why is that acceptable to treat others like that?

We deal with domestic violence on this blog, and over the years I have alot of letters from men, women and children that have left the church AFTER they left the abuser!

The church couldn't accept what had happened between these people within the marriage. They couldn't accept that their spirit was being crushed, and their bodies were being damaged. They couldn't accept that words: corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. I mean the bible says that? Sounds a bit stronger than 'verbal unkindness' for example doesn't it?

Our strict doctrine on how we deal with marriage pushes people RIGHT out of the church! I do feel that marriage is important, and YES it is what God would wish. YES I do believe he hates divorce, but he also hates alot of things. In most cases? I believe marriage is the best way. When you get into an abusive situation? It gets a bit sticky for all kinds of reasons.

I cry at the brokenness of people dealing with down right evil within their homes, and they are asked to PRAY only! Given some speech about how they are NOT in the Will of God if something doesn't happen according to HOW others see things!

Its like they don't even listen when people TALK!

Science isn't something that has to scare you.

Freeing a person from the cycle of abuse can be a good thing! I realize people go straight to divorce when I say that, and THAT is NOT what I'm talking about! I was thinking healing of the abuser and their family.

Niki could have gone home as a Christian, and she didn't due to doctrine.

The scientist was pushed out of the church due to his occupation, and an unrealistic fear of science.

When the going gets tough? The doctrine doesn't save them.

We throw them under the bus, and people leave the faith.

Its like common sense is something evil!

How inspiring we would be if we were free to open our minds! How much FRUIT could we show if we didn't have FEAR of things due to church doctrine! How inviting we would be if we didn't allow differences to automatically shut others out of the faith!

When do they take the speck out of their own eye?

Doctrines have purpose. The mission of the church as purpose. The bylaws of organizations have purpose.

When those are used to SHUT people out? That's a bottleneck! When people don't feel welcome, and when people feel they can't speak freely? When doctrine is used instead of compassion, grace, and love we are telling others MY way or the HIGHWAY!

Its not that people don't want to HEAR and LIVE the word of Christ! Its that they are being told they CAN'T due to rule one, rule two, and....

Violent Sex Offender To Be Ordained A Minister In Kentucky

eaandfaith@yahoo.com — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:45:03 PDT

There is a church in Kentucky that has now ordained a Sex Offender.

I watched this video, and I'm sorry I can't agree with this.

I realize there is a God of second chances, but we also deal with certain consequences of our actions.

What do you think?