Encountering the Cult of Ahnsahnghong

Counter Counter Argument -- "Ahnsahnghong Died"

2019-02-02T22:29:00.000-08:00

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

Continuing the counter-counter-argument series...

Let's start with the argument:
Ahnsahnghong cannot be Christ because he died.

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from Truth of God the Mother, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

Prophecies about King David...

[Regarding Hosea 3:5, Ezekiel 34:11-24, and Ezekiel 37:24-27]

"Through this, God lets us know that He will come in the name of David. Ezekiel wrote this about 450 years after King David's death. Obviously, these prophecies are not about the physical King David but about the spiritual King David."

Yes, there are Messianic prophecies that relate to King David. And yes, because of the timing of these verses, we know that they are not referring to the actual King David because he had already passed long before. I'm not sure I would use the phrase "spiritual King David," but the verses do speak of the Messiah's characteristics (a shepherd and king) and lineage (from the family of David).

Jesus came as King David...

[Regarding Isaiah 9:6-7 and Luke 1:31-32]

"Through this prophecy, again, God lets us know He will be born in the human form as the spiritual King David...

"Jesus Christ received the throne of David. So it's important to understand the relationship between Jesus and King David."

Yes, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of reigning on "David's throne." There are multiple verses in the New Testament which show Him being called the "Son of David."

And here is where the WMSCOG takes a wrong turn, when they interpret what "reigning on David's throne" means.

The Relationship between Jesus and King David
30 Years Old...

"David was 30 years old when he became king. And Jesus was 30 years old when He was baptized and began His gospel ministry....

"Jesus could have been baptized at any other age. He was born to preach, then why did He wait until he turned 30 to start preaching? He could've easily started at a much younger age and accomplished much more....

"Christ Ahnsahnghong was born in 1918 and was baptized in 1948 at 30 years old."

They are saying that why else would Jesus wait until He was 30 to be baptized except to match David who became king at age 30. And since Ahnsahnghong was also 30 when he was baptized, then David = Jesus = Ahnsahnghong.

I have previously written about this "prophecy," but regarding the age of 30, the first thing to know is that Luke 3:23 says Jesus was "about thirty years of age." The presence of that word "about" means that the exact age of 30 was not important. He could have been 29, 30, 31, or even 32.

Beyond that, why would Jesus have waited until He was 30? That was the minimum age when priests were eligible to serve in the temple (Num. 4:1-3, 21-23, 29-30; and 1 Chron. 23:2-5). Waiting until the age of 30 would mean no one could argue about His age, that He was too young.

40 Year Reign...

"Additionally, King David reigned forty years. Then what does this mean about Jesus' gospel ministry?"

[The next quote is from the embedded video:]

"Jesus did the gospel work for 3 years and then ascended to heaven while King David reigned for 40 years. Then who will fulfill the gospel work of the remaining 37 years of King David?"

Again, I wrote about this in another article, but regarding 40 years, is there any verse that actually says the Messiah would reign (or preach) for 40 years? No. The prophecy was that Jesus would reign "from that time on and forever" (Isa. 9:7) and "His kingdom will never end" (Luke 1:31-33).

Plus, notice the verse that comes after the one often quoted by the WMSCOG:
"David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years." (2 Sam. 5:4-5)

David did not become king of "Israel" until he was about 37, because for the first 7 1/2 years he was only king over his own tribe of Judah. There was "war between the house of Saul and the house of David" about who would be the next king (2 Sam. 3:1).

Also, with the WMSCOG's teaching that everything is "copy and shadow" (Heb. 8:5), if it were truly a prophecy that the Messiah's preaching would be split in a way that equals 40 years like David's reign, that split would have been 7 years and 33 years, NOT 3 years and 37 years.

Ahnsahnghong preached for 37 years...

"At the end of his reign, Kind [sic] David passed away and was buried. In the same way, Christ Ahnsahnghong passed away in 1985 after preaching for 37 years. Christ Ahnsahnghong's death lets us know He is Second Coming Christ who fulfilled prophecy. ... Christ Ahnsahnghong even prophesied about His death in a religious magazine in Korea.... his death is proof that He is Second Coming Christ."

First, from the time Ahnsahnghong was baptized until he died, it was only just over 36 years. To stretch that to 37 years takes more than the usual rounding. And this is assuming he started preaching right away after his baptism.

And what of Ahnsahnghong "prophesying" about his own death? The quote from the article:

"'The Second Coming Jesus has to come to the earth in secret and pass away after preaching the gospel for 37 years...,' says the Church of God."

The article is dated 1981, about four years before Ahnsahnghong died in 1985. They calculate that the time from his baptism in 1948 to his death in 1985 is 37 years (1985-1948=37), so he must have been speaking about himself as the "Second Coming Jesus."

However, he was baptized in Dec. 1948 and died in Feb. 1985--again, just over 36 years. Now, if these dates referred to someone's life, born in Dec. 1948 and died in Feb. 1985, would you say that they lived for 37 years? No, you would say they lived 36 years.

It is the same for Ahnsahnghong. He preached 36 years, not 37 years.

I have shown why the "40 year reign" is not correctly interpreted as a prophecy, but let's say, hypothetically for a moment, that it is correct. When we look for the fulfillment of a prophecy, do we look for something that is close? No, even the WMSCOG agrees that prophecy is fulfilled exactly.

For example, Jesus was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2 and Matt. 2:4-6). If He had been born in Jerusalem, about 10 km away, would we say that He fulfilled the prophecy? No, close is not good enough.

Likewise, Ahnsahnghong's just-over-36 years is close, but not an exact fulfillment of his own "prophesy" of 37 years.

The True Meaning of David's Throne...

Let's go back to the relationship between Jesus and King David. What did the prophecies mean when they said the Messiah would sit on "David's throne"? It simply meant that the Messiah would be born into David's family line, which Jesus fulfilled both through Mary's line (Luke 3) and Joseph's line (Matthew 1).

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Counter Counter Argument -- "There is Only One God"

2019-01-30T23:17:00.000-08:00

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

Continuing the counter-counter-argument series...

Let's start with the argument:
The Bible says there is only one God, like in 1 Timothy 2:5, so how can there be two--God the Father and God the Mother?

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from Truth of God the Mother, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

Think of Adam and Eve...

"Are Adam and Eve one person or two people? I think most people would agree and say they are two people. However, the Bible says they are one.

"Genesis 2:24 So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body.

"According to God, Adam and Eve are one person, one body. Does this mean that God doesn't know how to count? Of course God knows how to count! But in the eyes of God, Adam and Eve are one."

The response is that since the two people in a married couple are considered "one," so are "Father and Mother" two who can also be considered "one," and therefore there is no contradiction with the verses that insist there is only one God.

First, there is a difference in being numerically one and metaphorically one. My husband and I are numerically two people, though metaphorically you can say that we are "one" in love, teamwork, finances, etc. If I'm going to travel some place exciting, I want to share the experience with my husband because we are deeply connected as "one" couple, but the airline will make us buy two seats, and on a crowded flight, those two seats might not even be next to each other.

Will the airline allow me to purchase just one seat for the two of us because we are "one" in marriage? Absolutely not, even if we could fit in one seat. That's because we are numerically two people.

So how do you know if the verses about "one" God are speaking numerically or metaphorically? You look at the context. The context tells you that there is numerically one God.

Also, considering Gen. 2:24 (and in Mark 10:8), when it says, "the two will become one flesh," this is a euphemism. Can you guess what expression is substituted by this euphemism? Read 1 Corinthians 6:16, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'"

Yes, this phrase is talking about sex (please excuse my bluntness). Therefore, we can ask the WMSCOG, "If you insist that 'Father and Mother' are 'one' because in marriage 'two become one flesh,' then you are referring to their sexual union, right?"

Who sinned in the Garden of Eden?...

[Regarding Romans 5:12-17]
"Was it Adam who actually sinned in the Garden of Eden? People know that it was Eve who sinned first. But in these verses, it's Adam who gets blamed for sinning against God, even though God explicitly told both Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil....

"But because Adam and Eve are husband and wife, they are one body, the Bible regards them as one. And so only Adam is referenced here, almost as if Eve wasn't there. But we all know that she was. It's the same with God."

It is true that during the first sin incident with the fruit in the Garden of Eden, Eve sinned first, then Adam. It is also true that Adam takes the blame for the first sin, not only in Rom. 5:12-17 but also 1 Cor. 15:21-22. Is it because Adam and Eve are considered "one"? No.

For one thing, Eve does not escape blame (1 Tim. 2:13-14 and 2 Cor. 11:3). And both Adam and Eve received individual punishment (Gen. 3:16-19).

But why would the blame be given to Adam primarily? Here is a good explanation. Basically, Adam was created first and was put in authority. Adam had the role of leader, while Eve's role was as helper (Gen. 2:18). Adam failed to protect his wife and failed to admit to his sin when God asked him about it. Notice God spoke to Adam before speaking to Eve.

It's interesting that the writer of this counter-argument says God "explicitly told both Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree." Actually, God "explicitly" gave this command before Eve was created, so we only have record of Adam being told not to eat from the tree (Gen. 2:16-18). Eve knew about the command (Gen. 3:2-3), but we are not told specifically if she heard it directly from God or indirectly from Adam.

The example of the temple...

"Take the example of the temple. Most Christians know that the sanctuary has two parts -- the holy place and the most holy place. But to anyone standing outside the sanctuary, it looks like just one sanctuary. However, when you enter the temple, you can clearly see that there are two parts inside.

"I bring up the temple because, in the Bible, the temple represents God (John 2:21). So just as the temple looks like one from the outside, when in reality there are two parts inside, for many, God has existed as being only one. This shows our limited understanding of God, just as if we were standing on the outside of the temple."

The temple represented God's presence with His people. And it was in the Most Holy Place, where the Ark of the Covenant was kept, where God said His presence would appear in the cloud above the Ark (Lev. 16:2). If the WMSCOG's analogy were true, why were there not TWO Arks of the Covenant so that both rooms in the temple would have God's presence in this way? No, there was only ONE.

Also, if the temple represents God because Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days," speaking of His body (John 2:19-21), then what about 1 Cor. 6:19, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you...?" Does that mean we also have "two parts inside" since the temple represents us as well?

God refers to Himself in the plural...

"How would you explain Genesis 1:26 where God says, "Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us?" Here, God refers to Himself in the plural form, not singular. This is clear testimony that God is not only one, but two. Otherwise, if God were only one, the verse would read, 'Let me make human beings in my image, to be like me.'"

This show a lack of understanding of the Hebrew language. I've already written about the structure and use of the word "Elohim" (read all three parts).

Here's something else to think about. If there were two images of God--a male image and a female image, as the WMSCOG teaches--why doesn't Gen. 1:26 read, "Let us make man in our images..."?

Only one verse...

"Our faith cannot be based only on one verse. We cannot say that there is only one God the Father basing it solely on 1 Timothy....

"As true Christians who claim to believe in God and the Bible, we cannot deny God the Father and God the Mother who referred to Themselves as "us," even if in one verse, God is referred to as being only one."

There are MULTIPLE verses, not just one, that emphasize there is only ONE God. If you'd like to read them, start here or even here. Do you want a list written by someone else? Try this one, or this one.

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Counter Counter Argument -- "How can Ahnsahnghong be the Christ?"

2019-01-29T15:11:00.000-08:00

By special request from a World Mission Society Church of God member, I will be addressing several key points and counterarguments that the WMSCOG uses to respond to objections.

We can call this the counter-counter-argument series.

Let's start with the argument:
Many people, upon hearing the teaching that Ahnsahnghong is the "Second Coming Christ" say something like, "How can this be? He is just a Korean man! It's hard to believe!"

Now let's consider the WMSCOG's counter-argument (with quotes from The True WMSCOG, though the ideas appear on many websites) and responses to each part:

It's just like 2000 years ago...

"Today, 2 billion people in the world easily believe that a 33 year old Jewish carpenter... is the Christ.... When Jesus appeared 2,000 years ago, the people at that time did not see the glory of God, but instead they saw a 'mere man'."

Yes, it is true that when Jesus walked the earth, many people did not believe in Him as the Christ (Messiah), but now we (Christians) believe in Him. Many do not believe in Ahnsahnghong as the "Second Coming Christ," but that has no bearing on whether he actually is or not.

There are numerous people in the world who have claimed to be the Christ. They could say the same thing, "It's like 2000 years ago! People did not believe Jesus then, just like they don't believe me today!" That doesn't mean anything.

But let's look beyond that because their point is that is was possible for people (like the disciples) to know that Jesus was the Christ. They could know because of the Old Testament prophecies and Jesus's teachings.

Apply the same standard...

"Now, the reason I believe that Christ Ahnsahnghong is the second coming Christ, is based on the standards by which the disciples were able to recognize Jesus at His first coming.
1. Christ Ahnsahnghong fulfilled the prophecies of the second coming
2. Christ Ahnsahnghong taught the words of eternal life"

1. The Prophecies
This is a circular argument because the "prophecies" that the WMSCOG use are verses that they themselves interpret in such a way to fit Ahnsahnghong. You will not find these "prophecies" from other established and well-regarded Bible scholars.

I've written extensively about these "prophecies," but please let me know if you think there's one I've missed or need to give more attention. You can find these posts on my index page. In short, the "prophecies" do not work.

2. The Teachings
Ahnsahnghong's teachings are flawed, which shows that he is not God. I've written multiple articles about different problems in WMSCOG doctrine (see the index), not to mention this list of mistakes.

But when the WMSCOG says Ahnsahnghong "taught the words of eternal life," they really mean that he "restored the Passover." This is also incorrect because a) the Passover did not "disappear from the world" or need to be restored, and b) it's not the act of eating a bit of bread and drinking a bit of wine that saves us.

I'll be examining more of the WMSCOG's counterarguments in the near future. If there is one in particular you'd like me to address, please say so!

Unanswered Questions for WMSCOG Members

2018-12-31T17:17:00.000-08:00

As another year comes to a close and I reflect back, I recall a World Mission Society Church of God member who asked me to make a list of questions I thought the WMSCOG had "failed to answer or ran away from."

Unfortunately, I have not yet heard back from this person, and these questions remain.

Are there any members who would like to respond? I really would like to know how the WMSCOG explains these issues. Are there any acceptable answers? If so, please share as it will only help people understand the WMSCOG better.

Here are five of my "unanswered questions"...

1. The WMSCOG teaches that everyone who takes the Passover with them will be protected from disasters/plagues and will not die (source and example). Ahnsahnghong taught that only a literal 144,000 will go to heaven alive (see chapter 6 in The Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life). There are more than 2 million WMSCOG members who have taken the Passover and are supposedly protected from death. What will happen to all the people who will not die (because they took the Passover), but also will not go to heaven alive (because they are not part of the 144,000)?

2. Why does the WMSCOG sometimes keep the 7th month feasts in the 8th month? Click here for a detailed chart. Please do not answer that it is because of leap years. That is not a valid reason. In the sacred calendar, when leap months are required, they are added at the end of the year to keep the integrity of the 7th month feasts. There must be a different answer.

3. In their teaching about the Antichrist, the WMSCOG makes statements about 10 kingdoms that came out of the Roman Empire, 3 of which were destroyed by the Papacy. They also claim the Ostrogoths were destroyed in AD 538. Why does this not match up with the historical record? Click here for details.

4. In Rev. 5 and 6, the "Lamb" opens the scroll with the seven seals. The WMSCOG teaches that this is Ahnsahnghong revealing the Bible. In order to fully open the scroll, all seven seals must be opened. I've heard the WMSCOG explain that the 6th seal was World War II. What were the historical fulfillments of the other six seals? Click here for more info.

5. Regarding Joseph's dream in Gen. 37 involving the sun and the moon and the stars, the WMSCOG teaches that the sun represents "Father God" and the moon represents "Mother God" (source). In the dream, the sun and the moon are bowing to Joseph. Who does Joseph represent, and why are "Father and Mother" bowing to him?

"Which church should I go to?"

2017-10-22T20:10:00.002-07:00

"Which church is the True Church?"
"Where do I go for salvation?"
"I know I should leave, but if the WMSCOG is not true, then no church can be true. What will I do?"
"Meeting WMSCOG members made me want to go back to church, but how do I find one?"

I hear questions like these regularly.
Sometimes it's from a World Mission Society Church of God member trying to make their point.
Sometimes it's from a member who realizes something is wrong, but they are afraid to leave.
Sometimes it's from a person whose encounter with the WMSCOG makes them want to get closer to the true God.

No matter the reason or what form the question takes, it's a good question, and one that deserves attention.

First, let's define "church." For our purpose here, there are three basic definitions:
1. The worldwide group of people who truly believe in Jesus (God), not confined to a building or location
2. A denomination of Christianity, example: the Baptist church
3. A local congregation, example: First Baptist Church on Main Street

Which church is the True Church?

That is definition #1, the body of true believers worldwide. (John 10:27)
Here is a good article about it.

Where do I go for salvation?

It is not a church of any kind that can give you salvation, it is Jesus Himself. Go to Jesus for salvation. (John 14:6; Acts 16:31)

Then what about denominations and local congregations?

Local congregations (most of which are part of a larger denomination) can help you with your walk of faith. They can help you get to know Jesus better and have a closer relationship with God. But your salvation is about your relationship with God, not your relationship with a particular church (definition #2 or 3).

I know I should leave, but if the WMSCOG is not true, then no church can be true. What will I do?

Here's a question for you to think about--If your particular church is teaching you to worship a false god, should you stay there? Of course not! There are good churches that teach truth out there, but you won't find one until you leave and search for one, even if leaving is emotionally difficult.

I've heard from members who know that Ahnsahnghong and Zahng Gil-jah are false gods, but are hesitant to leave the WMSCOG because they agree with other teachings like Sabbath and the Feasts. Which do you think is more important? Who you worship or how you worship? Isn't it better to leave the church that worships false gods? Then you will see more clearly to find a better place to worship the true God.

I want to go back to church (or I'm leaving the WMSCOG), but how to I find a good church?

You can start by asking friends or relatives for suggestions, looking for local churches on the internet, or noticing what churches are in your town. But once you find some, how do you know if they are good ones?

The next step is to look at their statement of beliefs. You can usually find this on their website or in a pamphlet at the church. If they don't have one, that's a red flag--try a different church.

While denominations have some differences, all Christian churches that preach the truth about the Bible will share these same fundamental beliefs:

The Bible is the inspired word of God.
There is one true God, creator of heaven and earth, who has been revealed as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Jesus is God. He lived a sinless life, was crucified for our sins, and was bodily resurrected.
All humans have sinned and can only be saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Salvation is received by God's grace, through faith in Jesus, not by any works of our own.

If you see anything in the statement of beliefs that contradicts these things, such as that Jesus was not God or that people must perform certain tasks for their salvation, that's a red flag--try a different church.

If their beliefs look good, try visiting the church several times. Observe how the people interact with each other and with guests. See if they have programs and classes to help you study your Bible, grow in your faith, and connect with others. If it doesn't feel like the right fit, don't lose hope, just try a different church. You can also go back in a few months and see if you feel differently about it.

Don't be afraid to ask the leadership of the church if you have questions about what they do and what they believe and why. Remember that the WMSCOG is wrong about many of of their teachings. Don't dismiss a new church simply because they do and believe things the WMSCOG taught you were wrong.

Beware of local churches or denominations that might sound good at first, but actually teach falsehood (like the WMSCOG). Here is a list of points that will help you check if the church falls into this category. Sometimes you won't realize these teachings until you've been attending for a while. If that happens, just realize it's time to try a different church.

Here are two excellent articles with more advice about finding a good church:
"Looking for the 'Right' Church?"

"Choosing a Church After a Painful Experience"

The Queen's Award and the WMSCOG -- Fact and Fiction

2017-01-29T15:02:00.002-08:00

Foreword...
The World Mission Society Church of God has been pursuing a reputation for volunteer activity and community service in the locations of its various branches. Members participate in events such as blood drives, community clean up, family events, and the like. (See examples here.)

Community service itself is wonderful. It is admirable for people to invest their time and effort to improve the world around us and to help people in need. My family and I have done it. Most people who do this are sincere and loving about it, and I believe that most members of the WMSCOG who participate in these activities do so genuinely.

Because volunteer community services are so commendable, it's a very unpleasant and sensitive thing to have to criticize any part of it, and I do so reluctantly. My message here is in no way intended to denigrate the volunteers or detract from the valuable work they have done in their communities. Please know that the following criticisms are not directed at the members who do the volunteer work, but at the leaders who use the results of this work to make misrepresentations about the WMSCOG.
______________________________
Update July 2021 -- The WMSCOG has taken down many of the videos and pages I linked to in this article. You can still find a few out there, like this article, this presentation, and this video.

______________________________

Last summer the WMSCOG was awarded the Queen's Award for Voluntary Services. The WMSCOG and its members have been very excited and have published articles, videos, and comments about it around the web. If you have had anything to do with the WMSCOG, surely you have already heard about it. After all, it is prominently displayed on their main website's front page. Here's a screen shot...

I greatly admire Queen Elizabeth II, and so this interested me a lot. Over the last months I've been researching and watching -- What is this award? How is it earned? Is it everything the WMSCOG says? Are they representing it correctly to their members and the public?
Here is what I discovered...

The United Kingdom's government sites will tell you all about this award and how groups are nominated and selected and also a list of recipients. There is contact information available as well, for those of us who want more information about the award.

This is a legitimate and prestigious award. It is well-earned and an honor for those groups who receive it. However, there are numerous problems with the way the WMSCOG has represented this award.

Did the WMSCOG earn this award?
The award was earned by the "UK Zion," which is the specific local branch of the WMSCOG in Manchester, UK. This award was NOT given to the larger, corporate WMSCOG or any of their other local branches. For that to be stated or implied is inappropriate and against the nature of the award.

Think of Bob Dylan, who won the Nobel Prize for Literature last year for his songwriting. It would be improper for his record label to claim that they won the prize, or for other artists sharing that record label or singing with Bob Dylan to claim that they also won the prize.

This was clarified for me by a representative of the Queen's Award who told me, "It is possible for a group affiliated to a wider group to be given the award, however, it only applies to the local group." She went on to say that it "does not apply to the wider organisation and any mention of the Award on websites or marketing information should reflect this."

Do their websites reflect this? Well, read for yourself...
This article at award.watv.org,
This article at english.watv.org,
An article about their celebration event in Korea,
This video from the WMSCOG,
Another video from the WMSCOG.

How about these news articles or these ones that show local branches in the USA appropriating this award for themselves (see screen shot)? All of these articles (like this one) state "News provided by World Mission Society Church of God."

Even if they have not directly applied the award to "the wider organisation," they have implied it to enough of an extent that the casual reader would easily think that the entire worldwide church earned the award. Even their own members can easily misunderstand this if the WMSCOG does not specifically clarify it.

Are WMSCOG members now MBEs?
No. I wondered this because of the WMSCOG's statement:

"The Queen's Award for Voluntary Service recipients are made the Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire [MBE]. Just like individuals, groups that were recognized with an MBE can use this British honor with their names. They are also entitled to use the Queen's Award emblem on their website, stationery, and other printed material."

I was confused because I couldn't quite tell if the WMSCOG was saying that individual members could now use MBE with their names. Also, the UK's official information online did not explain for me if that was how this honor worked, so I asked the Queen's Award for more information.

The representative answered that although the award is equivalent in status for a group as an MBE is for an individual, "The Award is given to the overall group and it does not apply to individuals and therefore, it is not possible for individuals to use the title behind their name."

She also clarified for me the meaning of "MBE." She said, "The MBE title you have used 'Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire' is not recognised by us and the correct title is 'Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE).'" There is more information about the honors system online.

I can see how the WMSCOG might be confused about the title since I have seen it used with "the Most Excellent" phrase elsewhere online. Perhaps it is an outdated phrase, but in any case it is not used on the official government websites.

What about the wording on the certificate?
The certificate, signed by the Queen, says,

Elizabeth the Second,

By the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

and of Our other Realms and Territories, Queen, Defender of the Faith, to

UK ZION,

a group of volunteers from the World Mission Society Church of God,

share Mother's love through a range of initiatives.

Greeting!

We being cognisant of the said group's voluntary work in the community,

and being desirous of showing Our Royal Favour do hereby confer upon it:

The Queen's Golden Jubilee Award...

When the WMSCOG states, "The Queen praises the Church of God for performing the role of salt and light" (in this article), and "The award certificate signed by Queen Elizabeth II herself states its purpose and meaning clearly" (in this article, and similarly in this video), it gave me the impression that the Queen knows and approves of the message of "Mother God."

However, the phrase "UK ZION, a group of volunteers from the World Mission Society Church of God, share Mother's love through a range of initiatives" did not come from the Queen or the award committee. That "citation" part of the certificate is provided by either the organisation itself or the person nominating it. We can tell this because of the guidance notes for the award.

How long did it take for the UK Zion to be approved for this award?
According to a WMSCOG article and two videos (this one and this one, see screen shot), the local branch "has carried out volunteer services constantly for four years" and has been through a "rigorous assessment procedure for three years."

I understand those statements to mean that the Manchester branch did such a wonderful job of community work the first year that they were then nominated for the award and spent the next three years continuing their work while the "rigorous assessment procedure" was taking place. (If that's not what was meant, they might want to reword it.)

Well, the assessment is "thorough and rigorous" as described on the Queen's Award website, but it seems the WMSCOG's timeline is a bit off.

A group must have been doing their volunteer work for at least three years in order to be nominated, and it can be approved for the award in as quickly as one year (or less--nominations close in September for awards given the following June, see here for more information), or it may take as long as three years for a group to be approved for the award (info here).

The dates were also off on the Manchester branch's annual report submitted to the Charity Commission of the UK. The report was to cover the time period from August 2014 to August 2015, yet in Section D when it asks for a "summary of the main achievements of the charity during the year," they wrote "Queen's Award for Voluntary Service," even though they did not get the award until June 2016.

Was Kim Joo-cheol invited to Buckingham Palace by the Queen?
There is a picture of Kim Joo-cheol receiving the award, and the WMSCOG article says, "Before the award ceremony was held, General Pastor Kim Joo-cheol was invited by the [sic] Queen Elizabeth II as the representative of the Church of God to Buckingham Palace." I wondered if the General Pastor from Korea was actually personally invited by the Queen. That would be a prestigious invitation indeed.

The answer is no. The award notes tell us that each successful group is "allocated 2 places at the annual royal garden party at Buckingham Palace in London or the Palace of Holyroodhouse in Edinburgh." It was the WMSCOG who chose to send Kim Joo-cheol, not the Queen.

Was the WMSCOG the only religious organization to receive the award this year?
In this article and this video (see screen shot), the WMSCOG states, "among a total of 193 invited charities, social enterprises, and voluntary groups, the only religious organization is the World Mission Society Church of God."

That is false. The UK has published a list of award recipients for 2016. I did not look up all 193 of them, but here are some of the ones that are definitely religion-based:
Open Hands Trust, Christian
Federation of Jewish Services, Jewish
Urban Outreach, Christian
Inter Madrassah Organisation, Muslim
The Boy's Brigade, Christian
Mary's Meals, Catholic
Paisley Wynd Centre, Christian
Southend-on-Sea Street Pastors, Christian
Masjid-E-Zeenat-Ul-Islam, Muslim
Salisbury Cathedral Volunteers, Christian
Manna House, Christian
Carriers of Hope, Christian
Good Shepherd Ministry, Catholic
Radio Plus, Christian
Sikh Union Coventry, Sikh

The value of fact-checking
How many times after a presidential speech or debate between candidates have you seen the media fact-checking? It's an important part of keeping our leaders accountable to speak the truth and avoid misrepresentations.

Fact-checking the WMSCOG's publicity of the Queen's Award has revealed several areas where they have made mistakes.

This is an esteemed award, and those who do the work to earn it deserve the honor of being recognized by the Queen. When it is misrepresented, as the WMSCOG leadership has done, it detracts from the honor.

For a previous post about WMSCOG awards, click here.

Rebecca's full interview with Today, Part 2

2016-11-04T22:50:00.000-07:00

I'm still grateful to the Today Show for bringing exposure to the World Mission Society Church of God with the segment they broadcast about it earlier this year. And I'm thankful they posted their full interview with Rebecca, the member who was featured in the segment.

Again, for your convenience, you can view the full interview by clicking here.

I've watched the interview several times and found it thought provoking. Last time I wrote about thoughts it brought up regarding mainstream Christianity. Now I'll focus on comments specific to the WMSCOG.

The End of the World?

There has been controversy about if and when the WMSCOG had made predictions about the end of the world. Rebecca was asked about this and responded that she had not been taught a specific date. She said that in fact it would be wrong for the church to teach a specific date because the Bible says no one knows the day. That part is true (see Matthew 24:36), though other ex-members and family of members report that they were indeed taught at least an end year.

Beyond that, I was struck by something she said at about 14:36,

"It could happen whenever. For, individually it could happen tomorrow. We don’t know… I could get in a car accident when I leave this place. No one knows that, that time frame when this is going to happen."

She was talking about how any of us should be ready at any time because we don't know when our time will be up here on this earth. The part that confused me was her implication that she could die in a car accident that day.

The reason this confused me is that the WMSCOG teaches that those members who take the Passover are protected from disasters. They even have a video about it, which shows people claiming they were protected from fire, earthquake, accident, and more, all because they had taken the Passover. Accordingly, I would expect no fear or even thought in a member's mind about dying in a car accident.

Preaching to Your Family

Several times Rebecca made comments like this, at 20:50,

"I never told my family to change their beliefs. I never asked them to believe what I believe."

Perhaps she never phrased it in just that way, but I have a hard time believing that she never preached to her family hoping for them to join the WMSCOG with her. This does not ring true for me for two reasons.

First, if her new faith truly was her "absolute happiness," if she had found her "true purpose" and "all the answers," and if she loved her family, why would she not share with them about it and want them to find all that too? It is only natural to want your family to join you in this new faith.

Second, the WMSCOG teaches that salvation is based on obedience, and obedience includes preaching. If she did not at least try to preach to her family, then she would not be obeying the requirement to preach. I wonder if Rebecca would like to go back and rephrase that.

The Intervention

Apparently Rebecca's family tried an intervention that did not go well, and it seems the effect was more traumatic than helpful.

At about 19:50, she was asked why her family would say that after joining the WMSCOG, she began "slipping away," was "sleep deprived," seemed not herself, and "talked to them less." Rebecca paused for a long time, and then rather than answering the question directly, began to describe what they did to her,

"I want you to imagine being locked in a hotel room against your own free will, and your entire family is there and tells you you cannot leave the hotel room until you see a cult counselor."

She came back to this incident several times during the interview, frequently using the phrase "locked in a hotel room."

I have been in numerous hotel rooms around the world and have never seen one where a person can get locked in. Locked out, yes, but never locked in. The door will always open from the inside. It's a safety measure. I wonder if this is another occasion where Rebecca would like to rephrase herself.

After describing this failed intervention, Rebecca then gave the reason for her pulling away from her family. She said,

"Tell me that it's easy to trust your family after they do that to you.... They have discriminated against me from the beginning.... Every word that comes out of my mouth they consider it a lie.... How can you have a relationship with someone who thinks your brainwashed?... Their intolerance for what I want to believe is what has caused me to step away."

This can be a vicious cycle. Family is concerned by changes in their loved one after they become involved with the WMSCOG. Member perceives this concern as an offense and responds with anger, withdrawal, etc. Family becomes even more concerned....

Later at 25:05, she said about her family, "They don't see how their own actions are affecting me."

It is true that our actions affect others' responses. I remember in the first year of my sister's involvement with the WMSCOG, I was completely unprepared with how to handle the situation. I'm certain I said and did things that were counter-productive because I didn't know the extent of what I was dealing with. But I was motivated out of love for my sister. Perhaps it was that way with Rebecca's family.

But it's important for Rebecca (and other members) to realize the same thing is true for them. Their actions affect their family's responses too.

Missing the Wedding

At about 30:00, Rebecca was asked about missing her brother's wedding. Arrangements were made, and she was expected to be there, and then she left a message that she would not be attending. The family was under the impression that it was because of the WMSCOG. Rebecca responded,

"“I chose not to go to the wedding based on personal circumstances at that time, having nothing to do with the church."

I know other members have also missed significant family events such as weddings and funerals. These events are extremely important markers in a family's history and identity. They are experiences that connect the family together.

Unless you have a compelling and unavoidable reason, you can't miss these events without causing hurt feelings. And it's not like your nephew's birthday party that happens every year. Weddings, funerals, and that type of event happen just once. Miss it, and you don't get a do-over. Just read the advice columns. Letters about this kind of thing come up regularly.

That one sentence was all the explanation she gave. If it really had nothing to do with the church, she should have just explained the personal circumstances. She says she did visit her brother and his new wife later to offer congratulations, and it was after that that the intervention attempt happened.

Thinking back to how our actions affect others.... Rebecca would be fooling herself if she thought missing her brother's wedding would not cause a rift in the family relationship.

The "Arranged" Marriage

Rebecca's family believed she was part of an arranged marriage. I've heard other families worry about this for their loved one too, so I was very interested to listen to Rebecca's comment about it. It's at about 25:35 when she answered,

"It’s absolutely wrong. I fell in love with James, and people fall out of love. So, it was not a forced marriage by any means at all. We fell in love with each other; we met, and decided not to continue the, our relationship."

That was... confusing. Does that mean they were married and then divorced, or decided to call it off before getting married? If it's not "forced," does that mean it was arranged but she was happy to do it? Her comment leaves me with more questions than answers. I wish she could have another chance to answer that and clarify herself.

Listening to Strangers

At about 23:06, when Rebecca was asked why she thought her family was attacking her faith, she said,

"I think it’s because they’ve talked to outside sources who have a negative view of the church. And they’ve chosen to believe those sources rather than their own daughter, their own flesh and blood."

And later at 29:50, her message to her brother included this,

"I wish that you would believe me and trust me and not listen to complete strangers rather than your own sister."

I've heard this type of comment before from other WMSCOG sources. The idea is that the family should believe their loved one's report and opinion about the WMSCOG, instead of believing information from "strangers"--other sources, such as the website you are currently reading. (However, I'm sure they wouldn't mind if the family listened to "strangers" who supported the WMSCOG, right?)

This works both ways. I hear from many families who are upset that their loved one is refusing to listen to "their own flesh and blood" and instead listening to "strangers"--the WMSCOG evangelists they just recently met. Rebecca's family would probably echo the sentiment back to her.

Conclusion

Once more, I say thank you to Today for bringing attention to this group, and thank you to both Rebecca and her parents for sharing their story. I pray for them and other families in the same struggle that they would find peace and restoration.

Rebecca's full interview with Today, Part 1

2016-11-04T11:02:00.001-07:00

Even though Rebecca's own response videos have been removed, the Today Show still has available her full interview, from which they used clips to make the segment that was broadcast. (I don't know how long they keep old videos available online, but I'm sure it's not forever. So if you haven't seen it yet, you should check it out soon.)

Here's the link for Rebecca's full interview. As I watched, it brought many thoughts to my mind.

First, I was very thankful that Rebecca took the time to do the interview and that she was willing to share some of her personal life on national television. It would not be easy to be so exposed, especially knowing that it would likely invite criticism and judgment. Not everyone would be brave enough to do that. Also, I see enough clues in the interview to tell me that Rebecca is hurt by the broken relationship with her family, just as they are. I pray that their relationship can be healed and restored.

Now on to the interview, beginning with thoughts that specifically deal with mainstream Christianity.

Experiences in the Christian Faith

At about 2:17, Rebecca is talking about her experience with mainstream Christianity. She says,

"I had left church because I felt like no church could provide me with answers to questions I had about the Bible. No church was able to provide a community even though my whole life I grew up under my parents’ nurturing and care and love, and they promoted Christianity, but I never felt satisfied in any of the other churches that I attended."

And then a bit later at 3:00, she says,

"The Church of God is what became my home of faith where all the answers to my questions to the Bible were given, and I was able to realize truly my purpose. It was my absolute happiness."

I have heard feelings like this from others who have left the Christian church, and not just World Mission Society Church of God members. Sometimes they find answers in another religion, or sometimes they leave religion entirely.

I did not grow up in a church environment, but I have visited a great many churches as an adult Christian. Denominations and particular congregations have personalities, like people do. Some focus on heavily on Bible study and application, others not so much. Some are good at fostering community and connections, others not so much. Some have approachable leadership, others not so much. There are fantastic Christian churches out there who will answer your questions and provide a community. You only have to find them.

It's also up to the individual to do their part. I love the church I'm at now where there are available in-depth Bible studies and activities that help us feel connected to each other and the larger community. However, if a person did not make the effort to get involved, but just showed up to service once a week, they might not feel spiritually satisfied. They should step up and take responsibility for their walk of faith.

Comments like Rebecca's should also make us Christians examine our own church congregations. Is your church a "not so much" church? If so, help fix it. Is there someone at your church who seems to need a deeper connection to God and the church community? Encourage them and show them how they can get involved. Don't wait for them to find community and "answers" (false ones) at a place like the WMSCOG.

Raising Children in the Christian Faith

Related to experiences in the Christian faith, I was interested in Rebecca's response to the question about if she had "a religious childhood" at about 15:58,

"They took us to church. They, my parents they took me and my brothers to church. I know for my mom, she grew up Catholic but decided not to follow that as she became an adult even though her parents continued in Catholicism. And I’m not sure my dad’s upbringing, but they decided to bring us up together just going to the community church. I don’t, I don’t think it really had a denomination. It was just a Christian church that worshiped on Sunday."

I don't know Rebecca's family personally, so I am not placing any judgment or blame on them with the following comments. I only know that these few words sparked thoughts in me about my own family. I took this as a warning to myself as a Christian parent. I want to raise my children to have a deep and meaningful relationship with God. To do that takes purposeful communication and action.

If my children grow up and don't know the denomination of the church they have been attending all their young lives (even if it is "non-denominational"), something is wrong. Deuteronomy 11:19 tells us to teach our children and make our faith an everyday part of our conversations. If we consider our faith important, we should be teaching it to our children. Granted the teachings of Christianity are more important than the specific denomination name, but they should still know it.

If they grow up not knowing the faith history of their own mom and dad, whom they have lived with all their young lives, something is wrong. Good communication in our family includes sharing our family history because that is important to our identity. I know about my parents' faith histories because it is part of my own faith history. My children are learning the faith histories of their parents and their grandparents. If they grow up and aren't sure about it or can't remember, I hope they ask.

If they grow up only being "taken" to church on Sundays (or even less, on occasional Sundays like for Easter and Christmas), something is wrong. How will they feel connected to God and to the family of Christian believers unless they get involved enough to feel comfortable and familiar there? I want church to be an integral part of my children's lives, not just a place they are "taken" sometimes. Even better is for them to understand that the church is who we are, not just a place we go.

Parent Reaction to a Child's Change of Faith

When asked what her parents' reaction was to Rebecca joining the WMSCOG, she described it like this, at about 19:00,

"They were not supportive of my own choice of faith. They were actually upset and seemed angry because I wasn’t going along with what they had raised me to believe. So I can assure you that that was not easy, and I’m sure that I’m not the only one in this world that has a difference of belief as she gets older and decides for herself as an adult to believe something different. I’m sure there’s many similar situations and maybe someone watching now that also has a disagreement with their parents based on their choice of faith."

I realize that as a parent, I can only do so much to raise my children to have that deep and meaningful relationship with God. Eventually they must choose to continue that walk of faith on their own or not. I've known wonderful Christian parents whose children grew up and still decided not to follow. It is their own freedom and responsibility to choose their faith.

My experience with the WMSCOG has shown me the anguish that a parent (or family or loved one) can go through when that choice is made. And Rebecca is true that it happens to many people. Sometimes the parent's anguish comes when the child choose (mainstream) Christianity rather than the Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., faith that they grew up with.

One thing I've learned is to have compassion, especially on the parent, in that situation, whichever the direction of change. It's understandable for the parent to be upset. If a parent is very connected to their faith, if it is an integral part of them (like my Christianity is with me), then having a child reject that can be heartbreaking.

And if you are part of that equation (as either the parent or the child), it's important to be compassionate and patient, and to ask for and offer forgiveness for the inevitable emotional outbursts. Even though it can be extremely hard to do!

(It might even be the parent who makes the choice to change after raising their child in their original faith! Then the roles are reversed.)

I didn't expect to write so much, but there's been a lot on my mind. Next time I'll focus on WMSCOG specific thoughts from the interview.

Click here to go on to Part 2.

Rebecca's Response to the WMSCOG Today Show Segment

2016-11-01T13:52:00.000-07:00

Earlier this year, the Today Show aired a segment highlighting the World Mission Society Church of God (you can watch it here).

If you are familiar with the WMSCOG, you will not be surprised to hear that they came out with their own videos in response, showing Rebecca Gardner's side of the story in three parts. You may have seen them yourself. I have seen them too and believe they deserve comment here.

I spent some time over the summer reviewing Rebecca's videos and the full videos of her interview and John Power's interview which the Today Show made available.

Well, you know how life goes... some seasons are busier than others. Now that I'm sitting down to write a response, guess what... Rebecca's videos have disappeared!

They are no longer available on youtube or on vimeo due to "privacy settings." Numerous pro-WMSCOG blogs and websites had posted about these videos, but now many of those posts are hard to find, with "page not found" errors. There is one still available at truthofgodthemother, but look quick in case it disappears too.

WHY did Rebecca's videos disappear?

Was she or the WMSCOG afraid of being scrutinized for their videos, perhaps in the same way they were scrutinizing the Today Show's video? Did they have legal issues with the videos? It is mysterious, and the speculations abound in my head.

Honestly, I thought it was good that Rebecca was able to tell her side of things. Her videos showed that both the member and their family struggle. The Today Show segment seemed to highlight the family's hurt and sadness with the situation, but with Rebecca's videos I saw that she was also hurt by the broken relationship.

Also, on the plus side for Rebecca, she was able to explain how part of the Today Show video was not quite as it appeared. I'm sure we all realize that the media can edit and skew their reporting, taking things out of context, to support the perspective they wish to portray. Rebecca was able to explain places where this had happened. (Of course, the WMSCOG does this type of thing too when it benefits themselves.)

It is honorable that the Today Show made available their full interviews with Rebecca Gardner and John Power. I believe the interview portions were not taken out of context, though you can check that out for yourself.

I hope that Rebecca and the WMSCOG will repost (or even remake) the videos for the simple reason that they promote dialogue, and I would like to open a dialogue here about them. There is a lot to say.

NBC's Today Show covers WMSCOG controversy

2016-02-20T13:09:00.001-08:00

The Today Show on NBC did a segment on the World Mission Society Church of God.
Here's a screen shot. Click here to see the video on the Today Show's website.

Christmas Resources for a Balanced View

2015-12-24T23:14:00.001-08:00

"But the angel said to them, 'Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy to all the people. Today in the town of David, a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.' Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, 'Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.'" -- Luke 2:10-14

To a Christian, Christmas is not about presents (though generosity is good) and trees with ornaments and lights (though they are pretty).

It's not about Santa and his reindeer and elves (though it can be a fun game for some).

It's not about snow (though it would be beautiful, it never snows at my house).

It's really not even about being with family (some do not have any) or the date of December 25 (we can't even be sure when exactly Jesus was born).

Why? It's a time to remember the birth of Jesus Christ. Without His birth, there would have been no crucifixion, no resurrection, no triumph over sin and death, no salvation for us.

Those other things can be nice, but you can celebrate the birth of Jesus without any of them. All you really need is a heart that remembers the great wonder of God, being born as a baby so He could pay the price for our sins because He loves us so much.

The World Mission Society Church of God is not the only anti-Christmas group. When we are confronted by those who wish to condemn Christmas for being pagan, a product of Satan, and a holiday that has no place in a Christian's life, there are three paths we might take:

1. Believe it all, and become scared that we have fallen for Satan's trap, and abandon Christmas altogether.
2. Ignore it all, and staunchly maintain the Christmas traditions we've always followed, though are unable to say why.
or
3. Do some balanced research, become educated, and view Christmas from a new perspective.

Since my sister has been with the WMSCOG, and anti-Christmas for 8 Christmases now, I have been doing my research. I still believe in celebrating Christmas, but now I do it from a new and more balanced perspective.

If you also have been put in the position to be researching Christmas, you've probably already been inundated with anti-Christmas arguments. Here are some resources you might like that will help you with a balanced view:

The Catholic Encyclopedia on Christmas (very balanced)
Christmas Reconsidered
A Critique of Hislop's The Two Babylons (a common source of arguments for the pagan connection)
Message from the author of Babylon Mystery Religion (another source for pagan arguments)
Silly Reasons to Abandon Christmas
Origins of Christmas Traditions
The Star of Bethlehem Documentary (youtube video)

My previous posts about Christmas:
Christmas Thoughts
Christmas -- Repsonding to WMSCOG Comments

By the way, did you know God said this in the Bible?
"The glory of Lebanon will come to you, the juniper, the fir, and the cypress together, to adorn my sanctuary; and I will glorify the place for my feet." -- Isaiah 60:13

During the physically dark time around the winter solstice, these verses show very meaningful symbolism that would point people to the true God. Consider:
"because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven to shine on those living in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the path of peace." -- Luke 1:78-79
and
"the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the shadow of death a light has dawned." -- Matthew 4:16 (Jesus fulfilling what was said in Isaiah 9:2)

May you have a blessed and meaningful season.

Heavenly Mother - Conversation with Paul

2014-04-25T10:39:00.002-07:00

In my post about Galatians 4:26, "Paul Francis" wanted to discuss the meaning of "Jerusalem." (It's an important question for the World Mission Society Church of God, or WMSCOG.) For ease of discussion, and so others can follow along, we'll continue that conversation here in the comment section (similar to my previous conversation with Cyrus).

Because this is specifically a conversation with Paul, to avoid confusion and complication, I respectfully request that anyone else refrain from adding questions and comments here. You are welcome to email me, though, and I will save your responses for a later post (similar to the responses to Cyrus).

Ok, Paul. First of all, some guidelines for us both:

Each comment should be made in two parts, a response to the previous point and the raising of a question.
Response -- We should respond to the question that was last put forth, keeping in mind the purpose of explaining and encouraging understanding and not simply fighting. Also, please avoid using phrases such as "You don't understand because you are not one of God's chosen" (more examples here). We can also respond to the previous response, as long as it doesn't include an additional question that needs an answer.
Question -- We should ask a question, either to further pursue the issue, or raise a different point. For the ease of following the conversation, please limit the question to one point. Do not ask a question related to your response and ask a new question as well. Though it is understandable to ask a couple questions if they are all very closely related.
If we think the other's response is incomplete, inadequate, or needs to be clarified, first we should answer their question (give our response), then our question should concern the previous response. In other words, don't avoid their question in order to focus on their response. In this way, we should never be talking about more than two topics at once.
Timeliness is nice, but life is busy. A delay in answering should not be taken negatively or cause concern, unless there has been silence for more than two weeks.

I hope that is all clear. Thank you for your cooperation, and now let's get started. First I'll recap the last part of conversation on the Galatians 4:26 page:

Paul:
Yes it is highly figurative. The apostle when it came to explain the new covenant did not mention Sarah or new law but just mentioned about the heavenly Jerusalem. To get a better understanding about the heavenly Jerusalem we must find related verses in the bible and read them together to understand and not in parts.

Genny:
He didn't say much about it probably because this passage was focused on showing how we are free from slavery to the law, and not focused on the "heavenly Jerusalem."

If you were wanting a "better understanding about the heavenly Jerusalem" as you say, I would not start with this verse at all. I would look first (and mainly) at Heb. 12:22-24 and Rev. 21.

Paul:
Understanding the heavenly Jerusalem properly does include the verse Gal 4:26. And the apostle did focus a lot and thereby described Jerusalem as our Mother.

And now I'll take the first turn here in the response/question format:

Genny:
If you read the whole passage (Galatians 4:21-31), there are 10 verses. Only two of them mention Jerusalem. Six of them directly mention Sarah and/or Hagar (two more if you count verses 26-27). Five of them directly mention the sons Isaac and/or Ishmael (who was not named, but we know who he was). Therefore, I would say his metaphors were focused on the women and the sons, not on Jerusalem. That's why, if you were wondering about a "heavenly Jerusalem" I would not start with those verses.

My question for you... You had asked me before what I thought of when I heard the word "Jerusalem." You agreed with my response that it was a city. When you think of Jerusalem the city, what specifically do you think of? Do you include all the people (inhabitants) in that thought picture, just see the buildings (like empty shells), or maybe just the physical location (as a dot on the map), or...?

Now it's your turn. Please remember the two parts, response and question.

Summary of WMSCOG points -- Responding to comments

2014-04-22T16:21:00.001-07:00

Thank you, everyone, for sending your comments. I regret that because of various reasons it's not practical for me to post them all, but I do read them all.

This one from Anonymous (a popular name around here) gave such a concise summary of what I often hear from World Mission Society Church of God members, I thought it deserved a point by point response. I hope its author returns to continue the conversation.

I haven't edited anything out of the comment, just corrected a few spelling mistakes...

On April 21, 2014, Anonymous wrote:

Everything on this site is false.

I hope that means you've read everything on this site. Otherwise you couldn't say such a thing with certainty. :) I suggest you start here, if you haven't already.

For one, if God were to come IN THE FLESH as the bible clearly and jesus said HE WOULD a second time.. then as a man in the flesh, HE HAS TO GO THROUGH A PHYSICAL DEATH AGAIN! Doesn't mean that SPIRITUALLY he's going to die! Two DIFFERENT deaths!

Yes, Jesus said He would return, but there is no reason to assume, as you have, that it means He must be born again as a baby, grow up, and die. He was bodily resurrected. That means His body did not decay. That means He does not need a new body to be born into. He does NOT have to go through a physical death again.

Two, Jesus said that when he came again that he would also bear a NEW NAME. It's the same concept now as then! When jesus was here, it had already been prophesied that God would come in the flesh as a man and would bear a new name.

All of God's names in the Bible describe His character in one way or another. Even the name Jesus means "the Lord saves." Any 'new name' of Jesus is going to describe His character in a way that hasn't yet been done. Do you know what the name "Ahn Sahng Hong" means?

And by the way, please direct me to the Old Testament prophecy that tells that God would "bear a new name" when He came in the flesh. That one's not jumping out at me at the moment.

Who were the only people to recognize Jesus?? His disciples! How? Not from miracles, but BIBLE PROPHECY! Only God can fulfill His own prophecy!!

By 'disciples' you must mean all of those who followed Him (there were more than just the 12 apostles). But take a look at how they came to follow Jesus. For example, read John 1:29-51 to see how John the Baptist, James, John, Andrew, Peter, Philip, and Nathanael recognized Jesus. Bible prophecy was not the first reason. Prophecy confirmed it later for them (which it should for us also), but your statement seems a bit misleading.

It predicted through scripture where he'd come again which was south korea.

No, the WMSCOG interprets the scripture to say that he will be born as a baby in Korea, and then they show you that Ahnsahnghong fulfills that interpretation. It's a self-fulfilling circle. Read more about the "from the east" prophecy here, here, and here.

He fulfilled the remaining years to preach the gospel which JESUS DIDNT FULFILL! It was supposed to had been 40 years! Jesus preached 3 before he was crucified! Ahn Sahng Hong fulfilled ALL of the prophesies on second coming christ and preached the remaining 37 years!!

No, this is another self-fulfilling prophecy. The 40 years is the WMSCOG's own interpretation and does not hold up to examination. Read more about it here, here, and here.

And just like jesus never proclaimed to be god, neither did he!!

Yes, Jesus did proclaim that He is God. His saying, "I am God," may not be recorded, but what he did say made it clear enough to the people around Him. Read John 10:30-33; 8:58-59.

He wanted us to recognize him through his word! Its a test of our faith and belief in his PROPHECIES! The bible is a literal blue map [blueprint?] on how to receive our salvation and recognize christ in the flesh and that's how you recognize the true christs from the false people CLAIMING to be him in the last days!

Yes, you are definitely right that we must be able to recognize false christs in these last days, and that the Bible will help us do that. It's very important not to worship a false christ, isn't it? Please use the Bible, the historical records, and common logic to help you to not fall in that trap.

Clearly whoever made this site was SPIRITUALLY blind!!

We could argue back and forth about who is spiritually blind, but let's stick to looking at the facts we can find instead. :)

I read about this church before really going and decided to see what's so bad and false, but have found nothing but truth! They teach SCRIPTURE AND PROPHECY RIGHT OUT OF THE BIBLE IN FRONT OF YOU as you read yourself.

I have studied with them in person, and I have to say that at first it seems impressive. BUT that is only superficial. It doesn't hold up to examination, and have you tried to correct them or gave them an alternate (valid) interpretation? Have you done some research and gone back to tell them where there is a mistake?

If you do, then like me, you will likely be accused of not believing the Bible (by which they mean not believing in their interpretation), or accused of not believing God (by which they mean not believing them). That could be very intimidating to the average person.

If you went and tested the waters you'd see! No false person could make this up and use god's words to glorify himself because the bible would contradict their words. HOWEVER, nothing I've learned can contradict itself!

Yes, both the Bible and the historical record contradict the WMSCOG. They even contradict themselves sometimes. Please read my summary of key verses, summary of internal evidence, and summary of mistakes.

Scripture BACKS UP OTHER SCRIPTURES THEN SO DOES HISTORY!

I'll point out these contradictions in particular...

History does not back up the WMSCOG. Please read about the historical mistakes in their Antichrist doctrine.

And Scripture does not back up the WMSCOG, which is especially clear when you look at their feast calendar. Did you know that if you kept the fall feasts with the WMSCOG last October (2013) you kept them in the 8th month instead of the 7th month?

I am glad that you visited my website and took the time to comment. I hope to hear back from you again.

8th Month Error Again at the WMSCOG

2013-12-16T11:00:00.001-08:00

I've mentioned previously (here and here) about the World Mission Society Church of God's mistake in their own calendar keeping with regards to the fall feasts. And yes, it happened again this year--2013.

The WMSCOG kept Passover on March 25, 2013 (source). Therefore, using new moon data from NASA...

The new moon of March 11 started the 1st month.
The new moon of April 10 started the 2nd month.
The new moon of May 9 started the 3rd month.
The new moon of June 8 started the 4th month.
The new moon of July 8 started the 5th month.
The new moon of August 6 started the 6th month.
The new moon of September 5 started the 7th month.

We would have expected the WMSCOG to keep the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles in September, the 7th month, in accordance with Leviticus 23.

However, the WMSCOG kept these fall feasts in October (source), the 8th month, even though the WMSCOG's article calls it the 7th month.

The new moon of October 4 started the 8th month.
The Feast of Trumpets was kept on Oct. 5.
The Day of Atonement was kept on Oct. 14.
The Feast of Tabernacles was kept Oct. 19-26.

Why would the WMSCOG say they were celebrating in the 7th month, when really it was the 8th month? This was not the first time--they've made this mistake in 2005, 2008, and 2010 as well. (See the detailed chart here.)

I have asked members about this problem before, and the only answer they could give was that those years were leap years. They must have forgotten that the "sacred calendar" handles leap years by adding a month at the end of the year (the 12th month is doubled), which makes no impact on the 7th month.

In fact, the Bible does mention a feast kept in the 8th month, and not in a good way...

1 Kings 12:31-33
31 Jeroboam built shrines on high places and appointed priests from all sorts of people, even though they were not Levites. 32 He instituted a festival on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the festival held in Judah, and offered sacrifices on the altar. This he did in Bethel sacrificing to the calves he had made. And at Bethel he also installed priests at the high places he had made. 33 On the fifteenth day of the eighth month, a month of his own choosing, he offered sacrifices on the altar he had built at Bethel. So he instituted the festival for the Israelites and went up to the altar to make offerings.

I am hoping for a response from WMSCOG members... Do you have any explanation for this? Does this raise a red flag of warning for you?

Another ex-member of the WMSCOG speaks out

2013-02-04T19:54:00.000-08:00

Last week, Steven Hassan released a video of Ron Ramos, a 12-year former World Mission Society Church of God missionary, sharing his experience.

Yesterday Diane Sims' video was released. Diane, a former deaconess, was with the WMSCOG for 9 years. It's long, but I hope you will be able to watch all the way to the end. Go to http://vimeo.com/58850933 to watch, or click the video below. (Description below the video is from Steven Hassan on Vimeo.)

Diane Sims, ex-deaconess WMSCOG filmed February, 2013 from Steven A Hassan on Vimeo.
Ex-deaconess, Diane Sims, involved for 9 years in the World Mission Society Church of God (WSMCOG) sits down with Steve Hassan to discuss her experiences. Diane and her husband, Jeff Sims have left the group and she discusses in great detail many of her experiences. She and her husband were "fruits" of Ron Ramos and he was their mentor while they were in.

Breaking News! Ex-member of WMSCOG speaks out on video

2013-01-31T17:45:00.000-08:00

I don't have a lot of time right now, but this was released today, and I want to make sure you all know about it...

An ex-missionary of the WMSCOG, who was with the church for 12 years has spoken out about the World Mission Society Church of God with Steve Hassan. Go to http://vimeo.com/58659859 to watch, or click the video below. (Description below the video is from Steven Hassan on Vimeo.)
World Mission Society Church of God exposed: Ex 12 year Missionary Ron Ramos and Steve Hassan from Steven A Hassan on Vimeo.
An apocalyptic group that claims that Mother God is living in Korea. It is relentlessly recruiting new members who are almost instantly baptized. Former members say that they believe the Catholic Church is the anti-christ and that all churches that worship on Sunday are satanic. The group is accused of breaking up marriages and families, encouraging members to drop out of school and abandon their life goals. Also that they break up families.
Children in the group are viewed as a hindrance. Some former members have claimed they were encouraged to have abortions by leaders.
Ron Ramos was the first American installed as a deacon and was made a Missionary in 2005. He went to Korea three times and was an intricate part of the recruitment process in the United States. He and his wife decided to leave in 2011 due to inaccuracies in doctrine, lies that were uncovered, and the growing realization that the WMSCOG is destructive.

Reader Responses to the Conversation with Cyrus

2013-01-16T12:33:00.000-08:00

Cyrus (a World Mission Society Church of God member) and I have been having a very interesting conversation for the past several months. You can read it in the comment section of this post: Conversation with Cyrus, a WMSCOG member.

Although I have limited the conversation to Cyrus and myself, I have been pleased to hear from readers who wish to chime in and thought you all would also like to hear what others have been saying.

Anonymous wrote on October 23, 2012:

"Genny
Very good comments about objective and subjective. This make pretty clear what these people really want to do with others person.
Pls keep it up. You are doing an excellent job.
God will keep you in the right way"

Thanks for the encouragement. :) This was when we were talking about evidence in favor of Ahnsahnghong and the WMSCOG, and the need for objective (factual, provable) evidence rather than subjective (based on opinion and interpretation) evidence.

"Andi" wrote on November 8, 2012:

"Aw..God the mother is the wife of Jesus? Sounds like incest to me. Surely, the "bride" refers to Jerusalem, a place, not a particular person. Cyrus, you should attend your english 101 class. "

Thanks for your input Andi. The idea of whether this is incest ("God the Mother" also being the Bride of Jesus) has been debated in the forum at examiningthewmscog.com. And in Ahnsahnghong's books He repeatedly describes the Heavenly Jerusalem as a place, not a person. But honestly I think Cyrus' English and writing skills are great, so I'm not sure where your last line came from.

"Daniel" wrote on November 16, 2012:

"Hi Cyrus,

My name is Daniel... I have read through this whole discussion and I am a little curious about one thing. It's something you said in your last post.

"There are more prophecies you havent listed there in April 2010 that point to the founder of our temple, Christ Ahnsahnghong. The bible is so vast. But if I gave them to you, would you look for a way to disprove them? Maybe I'll let them stay within the church. There are quite a bit missing. Christ Ahnsahnghong said there is a treasure hidden for ages. So let it be for our church members."

If this man is truly the second coming of Jesus Christ, then why would he want his prophecies to remain a secret? When Jesus came the first time, He repeatedly claimed to be the Messiah and God by quoting Old Testament prophecies. His followers pointed out many more (Isaiah 53, Isaiah 9:6, Daniel 7, Psalm 22, Isaiah 52, Hosea 11:1, Isaiah 7:14, Micah 5, Zechariah 9:9, Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 2, Psalm 110, Joel 2, etc.)

None of these prophecies were "hidden". They were actually trumpeted from the rooftops by the early Christians! Jesus fulfilled all prophecies of the Messiah in the Old Testament, and for that reason only, Jews accepted him as their Savior.

Now, let's assume that WMSCOG is the new revelation of Jesus Christ. That would make your group the new "early Christians", the newest believers of the revelation of God. In order to convince a world full of Christians, Jews and Muslims that Ahnsahnghong is the Christ, why would your group refuse, or avoid, showing us the prophecies he fulfilled? We need to know the prophecies in order to believe! Jesus did not hide any prophetic fulfillment. He made the Scriptures clear, and He didn't hide or confuse any meanings.

And if you believe that Ahnsahnghong is Christ, that means he must fulfill every prophecy in both Old and New Testaments regarding the Messiah. Please, we need to know how this can be possible.

If you want many other people to be saved, you shouldn't need to hide your revelations for only the church to see. Jesus did not establish a church like that. He did not have "treasures hidden for the ages". He invited all people, from all nations and religions to come and see that he was the Messiah. Can't Ahnsahnghong do the same?"

That's a good point, Daniel. There should be no need to hide prophecies and doctrine and revelations from the world. I know of no legitimate church that does so. Any church that truly wants to spread their message to the world will make it as available as possible.

The WMSCOG doesn't make their books available to the public, even though Ahnsahnghong says in the preface of The Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life, "This book is worthy to be read not only by the general believers but also by pastors and professors of theological schools."

And then he says, "Please study this book seriously and visit us." He meant his book to be read by non-members who would then visit the church, but the WMSCOG will not sell it to non-members. Isn't there something wrong with that?

Anonymous wrote on November 29, 2012:
(I'm not publishing the email address that was included.)

"I think that it is important that the proper wording is use....the teaching of WMSCOG never said "the Passover disappeared" It was ABOLISHED at the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. Christ Ahnsahnghong RESTORED the Passover....how many "Cult" religion you know or heard talk about the "Passover" In all honesty, cults dont talk about the Passover and let alone put any of God's commands into practice....thats should be a red flag to any true christians....2000 years ago Jesus pointed out those who are God's people, people who love God-im sure your familiar with "the Wise and Foolish Builder" Matt7:24-27...and Jesus also testify in the same chapter Matt7:21-23
My email [removed]"

I appreciate hearing from you, but if you think it's very important that the proper wording is used regarding whether Passover disappeared, then you should correct the WMSCOG. They do use that word, and you can even see it on their main website about the Feasts of God.

I think you are letting your feelings get in the way of your thinking regarding what a "cult" would not teach. Do you consider Mormonism or the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult, or a heretical church? They teach many Biblical practices and follow many of God commands, but their core teachings are drastically different from mainstream Christianity. (Mormons believe there are many Gods and that man may become a God. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was not God.) Plus they are also categorized as cults according to their behavior.

Anonymous (the same one?) wrote on November 29, 2012:

"Genny......you said "I'd like to talk more about what is required for salvation. Imagine this situation. You and I happened to meet in person, but just while we were greeting, I am hit by the bullet of a drive-by shooter. I am lying there, on the sidewalk, bleeding (but conscious) with only a few minutes left to live. What would you tell me that I needed"

The only answer to that is reflect back 2000 years ago during Jesus' crucifixion, two robbers that were crucified. One rebuked him but the other had a repentent heart and believe in heart(soul)Jesus as his savior. I would say to you "Do you accept and believe that Christ Ahnsahnghong and Heavenly Mother who is the Spirit and Bride-Wife of the Lamb as your Savior?" and the rest is up to God. God sees whats in every man's heart theres no escaping. But only by believing and accepting the existance of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, like the robber that believed and accepted Jesus, can anyone be saved...!! "

In my experience, the WMSCOG does not teach that "believing and accepting the existence of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother" is enough for salvation. Perhaps you should double check that with your pastor or deacon. They have always preached to me that faith is not enough.

"tru sagacity" wrote on November 30, 2012:

"Genny....

I’ve been following your conversation with Cyrus who happens to be a member of World Mission Society-Church of God. In life I have come to learn how erroneous Man have shown throughout history. That is our very flaw of our sinful nature which we also know as arrogant. I commend you for the bible vs. “ Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”--1 John 4:1 And as christians we should test the spirits, but with LOVE in our hearts. It breaks my heart to see that your initial intent was to test the Spirits yet display a very offensive Head-Liner. Unless your true motive was to expose WMSCOG as a Cult Religion, and the general public who view your page receive a misconception about the WMSOCOG and the message the church brings. The thing about all this is really irrelevant, because everything has been set in motion. Where there is chaos, God already set order and we can see God’s work (Prophecies) being revealed in the Age of the Holy Spirit. You both can make arguing points all day, but in reality God already spoken and prophesied in the book 2 Cor 3: 6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” You can clearly see its affect, this is what’s happening. Its dividing each one of us from seeing the truth and placing doubts in our hearts and minds. Further more as it is written in the book of Heb 8: 10-11 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” As you and I can come to understand its not our extensive study, accumulated knowledge or what we think is the right interpretation of the bible that defies which person or beliefs has the truth.What you may not know about WMSCOG is that they are against and taught not to get our selves involve with debates, that can turn out to an on going “I’m right and your wrong” (allowing satan to place doubt and stir negative/hate/anger attitude towards a goal, to saving souls).... but you read the verses so I hope it is clear to you. WMSCOG express this to members to not do, yet our sinful nature invites us to disobey, which leads to all misunderstanding and views that truly represents WMSCOG. "

and

"WMSCOG are to relate what the bible teaches, practice the examples that were taught, set by our Lord Jesus for his children to follow. Members of WMSCOG follow the prophecies and the commands that Jesus commanded his children to do. Members of WMSCOG are active in the 10 talent movement prophesied in the Scripture, so they are encourage to preach and look for the scattered sheep. God’s sheep who hear and recognize his voice and follow him. You might already know these verses to be in agreement those who are God’s children and reasons why not everyone that has eyes, ears, mind and heart have absolute truth and understanding....I list a few....John 10:26-27...John 8:42-47...Matt 13:11.....Many who become members are quick and eager to spread the good news of what they have heard and learn, even though they don’t have all the studies put in, so they can or may come out pushy, unknowledgeable, or lack tact. Its not an over night thing, but their hearts in the right place and in time growing in the faith, slowly shed old negative habits(sinful flesh).

With everything said, we should be slow with our tongue and not pass judgement on others. We should look at ourselves and judge only ourselves, after all are we not all born with sin...?? and isn’t God the judge of us all...!?! I ask that you reconsider posting sites like this one, but if you have concerns don’t make it public, but pray about it and let God handle it... Id like to finish this conversing with a quote from “Teachings of Mother” taught in the WMSCOG....”A Beautiful mind has no hate, and brings forth a PERFECT ‘LOVE’.”

Ps. if you want an objective proof to WMSCOG in their belief of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, God summed it all up in these verses, Romans 1:19-20... Rev. 21:9... Rev.22:17 and in truth all 66 Testaments is practically screaming the Words Father and Mother......( This is how you should pray “ Our Father who is in Heaven......” in Gal 4:26 “but the Jerusalem that is Above is free, and She is Our Mother...” ) if one is to have a spiritual understanding (not the physical eyes and ears, or heart) then you will see that the verses are mated to see the secrets that has been hidden and sealed through all ages, until NOW......and in relations to your Bible verse 1 John 4:1 this is how a spirit is tested....God Bless You...!!! <3"

You sent the same thing by email, and I've appreciated the exchange we had there. Since you also posted this as a comment, you must have wanted this published for everyone to read. Therefore, I will also share my response...

Do you mean the headliner "Encountering the Cult of Ahnsahnghong" with the word "cult"? I would agree with your point if I was just throwing the term around lightly without thought, but people visiting my webpage need for information need to know that this group has been labeled as such by experts in the field. It is not my own label. There is plenty of information available on my blog and my linked resources for people to investigate whether this is reasonable. Also, the WMSCOG already had a well-formulated response to being called a cult, so it is not new or unexpected to them as an organization.

My main intent with the conversation (and the whole website) is not to get people out of the WMSCOG, but my main purpose is to educate people about what the WMSCOG teaches and how it differs from Christianity and how to understand a loved one who believes it. If the information helps people to leave the WMSCOG or not join in the first place, then I admit I am happy for that.

Yes, I agree that a person can have a whole lot of knowledge, but still not have the truth.
I'm not sure if you are saying that Cyrus does not represent the views of the WMSCOG and is causing people to misunderstand what the WMSCOG teaches. I have discovered that the WMSCOG seems to teach different things in different place, so I would not be surprised if you think he misunderstands the WMSCOG.
If you are saying that the WMSCOG teaches not to get involved with discussions on doctrine--why? Are they worried that you might hear ideas to contradict what you have been taught? It seems to me that the WMSCOG are happy to have discussion when it's them telling others their church is wrong, but they are not ok with discussions in which they have to hear that they themselves might have it wrong.

I would expect someone who truly believes in their faith to live by it. I live by my faith, and I am not surprised that WMSCOG members live by theirs (even though I think they have been taught incorrectly about many things).

I did pray about it a lot before I started the website, and I did pray and try other things before writing online at all in any forums even before that. As for passing judgment, we are to be careful how we judge because the same measure will be used to judge us. We must call sin for what it is, but correct others with love. If you believe what you have said here, then you should also consider asking the WMSCOG to not pass judgment on other churches and to take down the many blogs, videos, and websites that severely judge Catholics and other Christian churches. If they have such concerns about other churches, do you think they should not make it public but let God handle it?

If all 66 books of the Bible are "practically screaming" about "father and mother," then don't you think other churches and Bible scholars would have seen it by now? The WMSCOG's interpretation of Gal. 4:26 is flawed from the beginning. You can read about it here: http://encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com/2010/11/galatians-426-part-1.html
If you are going to "mate" verses that have similar words, you have to use good scholarship to do it, or you will end up with faulty doctrine, which unfortunately is what has happened with the WMSCOG's mated verses.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I do care about what happens to you and your friends in the WMSCOG. If I didn't, I wouldn't try so hard to share these things with you.

Happy New Year to you all!

Conversation with Cyrus, a WMSCOG member

2012-09-05T12:17:00.000-07:00

In my previous post regarding clues that the World Mission Society Church of God is false, one of those commenting was "Cyrus." Cyrus is currently a member of the WMSCOG and is willing to engage in conversation to clarify some points. Thank you, Cyrus!

Our conversation will take place right here, through the comment section of this post. I hope it will serve as a good source of information for the rest of our readers here. However, I respectfully request that the comments on this post be limited to just Cyrus. For anyone else who wishes to comment about this conversation, please visit the forum (examiningthewmscog.com/forum), or send me an email. Thank you!

First, some ground rules, Cyrus, for you and me:

Each comment should be made in two parts, a response to the previous point and the raising of a question.
Response -- We should respond to the question that was last put forth, keeping in mind the purpose of explaining and encouraging understanding and not simply fighting. Also, please avoid using phrases such as "You don't understand because you are not one of God's chosen" (more examples here). We can also respond to the previous response, as long as it doesn't include an additional question that needs an answer.
Question -- We should ask a question, either to further pursue the issue, or raise a different point. For the ease of following the conversation, please limit the question to one point. Do not ask a question related to your response and ask a new question as well.
If we think the other's response is incomplete, inadequate, or needs to be clarified, first we should answer their question (give our response), then our question should concern the previous response. In other words, don't avoid their question in order to focus on their response. In this way, we should never be talking about more than two topics at once.
Timeliness is nice, but life is busy. A delay in answering should not be taken negatively or cause concern, unless there has been silence for more than two weeks.

I hope that is all clear. Thank you, again, and now let's get started. You posed the first question...

"Let us make man in our image... Male and female He created them" Genesis 1:26-27. "the Spirit and the bride say come... Take the free gift of the water of life." Revelation 22. The bride of christ is His bride. Guests are invited to the wedding supper, not the bride. We are the guests. Right?

My response:
The first part of what you wrote (Gen. 1:26-27) is about the word Elohim. I have written about that here: Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3. I'm going to focus on your question about Revelation 22. I understand your question to be, "We are the guests at the wedding supper. Therefore, doesn't someone else have to be the bride of Christ?"

I have heard the WMSCOG say that the Church cannot be both the bride and the guests at the wedding. But please consider this...

God is called the father of the Israelites, but God is also called the husband of Israel. But how can the Israelites be both the children and the wife of God? It doesn't make sense, does it?

It does when you consider that individually, the people were counted as God's children. But corporately, together as the nation, they were considered as God's bride

In the same way, individually, we are each invited to become part of the Church, the body of believers. But corporately, together as the Church body, we are the bride of Christ.

God uses descriptive language to help us understand our relationship with Him.

I hope you are able to understand that this is a valid, alternate interpretation of the same verses.

My question for you:
The WMSCOG teaches that there are two distinct Gods. How do you reconcile that with verses such as these which declare there is only one God? (Note that all of these quotes use the singular word for God.)
"For I am God, and there is no other" (Isaiah 45:22 and 46:9)
"Is there a God besides me? Indeed, there is no other rock; I know not one." (Isaiah 44:8)
"Before Me there was no God formed; nor shall there be after Me." (Isaiah 43:10)
"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God," (1 Timothy 1:17)

Ok, your turn. Please remember the two parts, response and question.

Proof that the World Mission Society Church of God is False

2012-08-30T14:16:00.000-07:00

I wrote previously asking World Mission Society Church of God members to share objective proof that their faith is true. So far, no one has had any objective proof to offer.

Today, I'm turning the idea around to disproof. What objective information do we have that proves the WMSCOG to be false?

I want to emphasize the word objective. We're looking for provable facts here, not feelings, opinions and matters of interpretation. (Click here for an example of why we can't just go by feelings.)

I love analogies. It really helps me to understand something if I can see how it relates to or corresponds with something else. Here's an analogy for you...

A popular movie these days at my house is Disney's "Tangled," the story of Rapunzel. What I really find interesting as I watch it is the relationship between Rapunzel and Mother Gothel. It follows so closely with the BITE model of destructive mind control. As viewers, we can see how Mother Gothel manipulates Rapunzel in the relationship, but Rapunzel just sees it as love and care from her 'mother.'

In reality, Mother Gothel is not her mother at all and is using her for selfish means. There's one moment, closer to the end of the movie, when Rapunzel finally realizes the truth. One clue leads to everything unraveling. What is that one clue? Rapunzel and the lost princess share the same birthday. Rapunzel combines that clue with everything else she saw when she escaped isolation (the symbol of the kingdom, the picture of the little princess), and the truth is revealed!

Now back to the WMSCOG. If none of the other common reasons convince you, then please follow these clues, provable facts, to show you where the so-called 'truth' of the WMSCOG starts unraveling. Thankfully there are many clues to find, not just one, and I'll list some for you here.

These are all matters of fact and logic and cannot be debated. (1+1 = 2; can you debate that it doesn't?) Well, if you'd like to try to debate these facts, go ahead, and I look forward to hearing from you about it.

The WMSCOG teaches that God lies

What do you call a 'God' who acts contrary to the nature of God? A false god. (Click here for more information.)

Isaac -- The WMSCOG teaches that Abraham's son Isaac was God in the flesh. However, Isaac lied (Genesis 26). God does NOT lie (Titus 1:2).

Ahnsahnghong's own book -- In the book "Problems with New Jerusalem, the Bride, and Women's Veils," Ahnsahnghong said that there was NO 'Mother God' and and specifically argued against the same verses the WMSCOG used today to try to prove there is. The WMSCOG's position is that Ahnsahnghong wrote the book to prevent his followers from believing in the wrong woman as 'Mother God,' and then withdrew the book so he could reveal the right woman. There are only two conclusions I can draw from this, neither of which is good for the WMSCOG. Either:

Ahnsahnghong told the truth in his book, and there is no 'Mother God' (which disproves the WMSCOG) or...
Ahnsahnghong lied in his book, which proves he cannot be God (which also disproves the WMSCOG).

The WMSCOG uses false historical facts

I have been told that these are not actually false facts, but simplifications to avoid lengthy discussions of complicated history. I understand the need to simplify, but even simplifications can (and should) be accurate. Build doctrine on false simplifications, and you end up with false doctrine.

The 10 Kingdoms -- As part of the Pope-is-Antichrist doctrine, the WMSCOG teaches that the Roman Empire broke up into 10 countries, 3 of which were destroyed by the Catholic Church by 538. The supposed 10 kingdoms are not accurate, 5 (not 3) were destroyed, and the kingdoms' religious faith was not a consistent factor. (Click here and here for more information.)

The year 538 -- Again as part of the Pope-is-Antichrist doctrine, the WMSCOG teaches that the last of the three kingdoms to fall was the Ostrogoths, destroyed in AD 538, which began the prophesied 1260 years of the 'Dark Ages.' However, the Ostrogoths were destroyed must later than 538, and there is no significance of the year 538 in Papal history either. (Click here and here for more information.)

The WMSCOG has kept the Feasts incorrectly
(even according to their own regulations!)

This is an obvious clue for me! If you are uncertain or confused about it, please click on the link provided for more details.

The Feasts of the seventh month -- According to the WMSCOG, keeping the Feasts of God properly is absolutely essential to your salvation. The Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles must take place on the specified days in the seventh month of the 'sacred calendar.'

But if you examine what has actually been done at the WMSCOG, you'll find that in 2005, 2008, and 2010, the seventh month Feasts were kept in the eighth month. (Click here for the detailed chart.) The only word I can think of to describe that is incompetence, and that is definitely not a word to describe God (or a church that claims to be lead by a God-in-the-flesh).

If you are a WMSCOG member, I pray that you will follow these clues to find true freedom in the real Jesus Christ.

Christmas -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

2012-08-14T01:28:00.000-07:00

I'm back again, still trying to catch up with the many comments posted recently by World Mission Society Church of God members. Just a reminder, if you would like to have a conversation, you are welcome to email me directly (knowhispeace@gmail.com) or join the forum here.

I have not changed or removed anything in these comments.

On July 31 at 10:40 pm, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" in response to my comment --

Genny wrote: Hi again. I assume you are the same person who wrote to ask if I celebrate Christmas and Easter. I think I did not make myself clear. I said nothing about December 25 because that date itself has minimal significance to me. I know full well (as should all Christians) that we do not know the exact date of Jesus' birth.

Anonymous wrote: Genny, so you acknowledged that Dec 25 is not the birthday of Jesus Christ then, and you are making yourself clear that this date has a minimal significance to you, meaning there is still a remaining significance to you so as to say.

Yes, there is still a remaining significance to me. If you were going to choose a time of year to celebrate the birth of Jesus, the time of the winter solstice would be meaningful. The nights get longer and longer, and just when you might lose hope that darkness will win, the season turns. Daytime begins to lengthen again. The light triumphs, if you will.

Jesus is the light of the world, and He has triumphed over darkness -- John 8:12 and 12:46; Matthew 4:16.

This was not from a WMSCOG member, but it fits right in with this topic...

On August 6 at 10:47 am, James posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --

The sad thing in all of this is that there is absolutely NO evidence, historically speaking, that December 25 was a pagan holiday before it was a Christian one. This is a bit of sloppy scholarship and old wives tales conflated over the generations.

At most, the Romans had two sun cults. The original, dating back to the centuries before Christ, Sol Indiges, had a feast on December 11 - NOT December 25. The other sun cult was the cult of Sol Invictus, which was actually the importation of Syrian Mythraism into Roman society by the Emperor Aurelian in the late third century AD. December 25 has never been specifically identified as a holiday for Sol Invictus, and the earliest records of a late December celebration of Sol Invictus are no older than the fourth century AD (mid 300's).

So, there's no evidence that there was a holiday for the sun in late December until long after Christ.

What we do have in some evidence, however, is that some Christian groups were celebrating the Nativity in the early to mid-200's. What we also have is the simple reality that December 25 was calculated by the early church by adding 9 months to March 25 - the Annunciation. And March 25 is calculated from Luke's statement in the first chapter of his Gospel that Gabriel came to Mary in "the sixth month" - which in the calendar he most likely observed introduced by Alexander the Great, translates to late March to early April by our Gregorian calendar.

None of this is to say that December 25 is exactly right. It could be off by days, weeks, or months. What's important is that there is no evidence from antiquity that the early church derived its holidays from the pagan calendar.

Thanks, James. That was really interesting. Here is another comment about Christmas...

On July 31 at 10:48 pm, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --

Genny wrote: I happily remember the birth of Jesus all year long. Yes, I sing Christmas hymns with my children even in the summer. I especially celebrate Jesus' birth in December because that's when the world puts a focus on it, and it's especially nice to celebrate in unison.

Anonymous wrote: On this, you clearly remember the birth of Jesus by singing Christmas songs and you believe that celebrating the birth of Jesus with everybody in the whole world because this is the day when the whole world puts their focus on it and it is very nice to celebrate in unison with them. Although you do not know what day is the birthday of Jesus, you simply mean that you can celebrate the birthday of Jesus any day of the year as you want to. So ,do you also mean you can celebrate the birthday of Jesus Christ many times a year as you want too?

and (a few minutes later at 10:52 pm) --

Genny wrote: As for the day, though, if you are talking about specific gatherings such as with my family or church, I can honestly say that I celebrate at least 5 or 6 different days. You see, it is the reason for the celebration, not the date of Dec. 25, that is important to me.

Anonymous wrote: So, you acknowledged that you celebrate the birthday of Jesus even 5 or 6x in different days because it is not the date that is important to you but the reason for the celebration. You also know very well that you follow your own thoughts in doing this!

You believe that it is wrong to celebrate Jesus birth on a date that is not His actual birthday, and that we shouldn't just choose any date. You also believe it is wrong of me to celebrate Jesus birth on many different days. Do I understand your objections correctly?

Reflect on this... do you have children? When do you celebrate their birthdays? How about the rest of the people in your family? How about your own birthday? Do you ever celebrate on a day that is not the actual birthday?

Among my family and friends, we often have birthday celebrations that do not fall on the actual birthday of the person being honored. This year, my son celebrated his birthday on three different days -- once with friends, and twice with two different parts of the family. Are you saying that is wrong? If I can't celebrate my child's birthday with family and friends on his actual birthday, am I prohibited from choosing a different day for us to celebrate in unison? Would you like to give me a verse from the Bible that forbids my doing this?

I happily remember my children's birthdays all year round too, because I am so thankful to have them a part of my life. I will gladly tell them stories about their births any time they ask, without making them wait until their actual birthday. When I hear a particular song or see a particular picture or just have a passing thought about their births, I will praise God once again for the blessings He gave me. I won't put the thoughts aside simply because it's "not the right day." It is the same when I think about the birth of Jesus. You would say this is wrong?

On July 31 at 11:42 pm, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --

Genny, Is this too much for you answer? I understand how you feel! But I will listen to what you say and make a beneficial decision out of it. When you are ready to post all of my comments!!

No, it's not too much for me to answer. I'm just limited on time, and working through all the comments as I am able. If you would put a name on your comments, it would make it easier to know which are yours, and which are from someone else. You don't have to leave an email address with your name, and I don't mind if you choose a pseudonym.

I hope you'll be back. There are still many more comments to go.

The Power of God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

2012-07-31T21:54:00.002-07:00

I'm here today to address a couple more of the comments from World Mission Society Church of God member(s) that have come through in the last several days. Again, I'll copy the comments exactly as they were written, without adding, removing, or editing anything

On July 28 at 5:55 am, Anonymous posted on "Mother God -- Responding to WMSCOG comments" --

You quoted: ROM 6:9 - Christ cannot die again. Ahnsahnghong is dead.
Who is Christ to you? Isn't He God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth? In the first place, does God need the flesh to wear? What is the flesh to God. God has no limitations. He can do whatever God wants to do. The flesh, he used in the body of Jesus Christ God does not need. But He used it during His 1st Coming because God CAN. It does not mean that He cannot use any other flesh, it is because GOD CAN!I believe you do not understand the POWER of GOD>

On July 29 at 6:34 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus," in response to bigcedbeatz's comment --

Bigcedbiatz, You are foolish because of your little faith. Does God needs the flesh? NO!! When God made the heavens and the earth, He was in Spirit. He needs no flesh at all. But it does not mean that he will not use the flesh for his purpose. Do you know why? It is because God CAN! If God plans it, He will do it, and He CAN!!The flesh He used in the body of Jesus Christ is only a flesh. He used it for His purpose and left it. Will God forever use that same flesh again? God will do whatever He plans to do and nobody can stop God in fulfilling HIS plan! If He wants to reveal himself again in the flesh as an American, Russian, African, HE can do it because HE CAN!!!! Why do you question the power of GOD????? Foolish Christian!!

Your basic point seems to be that it is within God's power to appear (be born) in the flesh again if He wanted to, and in any physical appearance. You think I do not understand or believe in the power of God to do such a thing.

Yes, I do believe in the great power of God. I believe He is able to do things that I can't even imagine. But there are somethings that God will NOT do -- He will not do anything that is contrary to His character, His nature. He will not lie. He will not be unjust. He will not contradict Himself. (Here is a more detailed summary of what God cannot do.)

God said that He would not die again (Romans 6:9). God said, multiple times, that there is only one God (see those verses here, here, and here.) Did God lie when He said those things?

The WMSCOG teaches that Isaac was also God in the flesh. Yet Isaac lied (Genesis 26), and Isaac was deceived (Genesis 27).

The Bible says God will not lie (Titus 1:2), and that He cannot be deceived by anyone (Hebrews 4:13). The WMSCOG teaches that God lies and can be deceived.

Are you saying that God is so "powerful" that He can act contrary to His nature?

What do you call a "God" who acts contrary to God's unchanging nature? A false god!

Accusations -- Responding to WMSCOG comments

2012-07-30T00:10:00.000-07:00

I have received quite a few comments from World Mission Society Church of God member(s) in the last few days. Rather than trying to address them all in the comment section, I'm going to post them here. I'd also like to remind everyone about the forum where you can discuss WMCSOG topics.

I'll copy the comments exactly as they were written, without adding, removing, or editing anything. However, they will not necessarily be in the order received...

On July 29 at 6:39 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus" --

Genny, you are not posting all comments on your blog!!! These means that you are a false prophet who testifies falsehood. You do not want your evil schemes to be exposed so people will believe your lies!!!

No, I do not post all comments on my blog. You might be surprised at the magnitude of rudeness (to put it nicely), that occasionally comes through (both from pro- and anti-WMSCOG commentors). I also won't post any comments that reveal personally identifying information. Also, some comments are picked up by the spam filter.

Another thing to think about, I have a full life outside of this blog, my own family and job and activities, so sometimes I am delayed at approving comments and responding to them. Please be patient with me.

Now, if you are serious that my "not posting all comments" is evidence that I'm a "false prophet" and that I don't want my "evil schemes to be exposed," then what would you say about all of the WMSCOG sites and member blogs that do not post all comments?

On July 29 at 5:54 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus" --

The secrets of the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven has been given to God's children but not to people who are not God's children that is why Ahnsahnghong's books are not available to the general public.

That's not a very useful quote to argue with. Anyone could say, "I am God's child and you are not. That's why you don't understand the truth I'm telling you." You need something more substantial than that.

If Ahnsahnghong's books truly held the truth, and the WMSCOG truly preached the truth, why wouldn't they want the truth available to everyone?

Think about other organizations that restrict their publications in the way the WMSCOG does. What kinds of organizations are they? Why do they have those restrictions? (If you can't answer those questions for yourself, let me know.)

On July 29 at 6:44 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus," in response to Carlos' comment --

Carlos, this website did not open your eyes but it closed your eyes to the truth! Genny does not follow the teachings of the bible absolutely and she encourage people to worship God in their own ways. That is absolutely WRONG. It is because Salvation belongs to God. And His statutes we need to keep. You are being deceived!!!

We can each call the other "deceived!" but the word means little if it's not backed up by evidence. Please check out my three summary pages (Key Verses, Internal Evidence, and Mistakes). Also, if you haven't read the Start Here page, please do.

When you say that I "encourage people to worship God in their own ways," what do you mean by that? What I think of when I hear that is that people should worship according to the personality that God gave them, and what is meaningful to them, in a way that pleases God. For example, someone who loves nature probably worships God better when they are camping or on a hike and should not think that a building is the only suitable place to worship God.

On July 29 at 6:24 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus," in response to Daniyyel's comment --

Danniyel, your sister is the one who is so sorry for you because your poor soul is dying. You believe that she is in a cult but in reality, you are the one who is in a cult. Let me explain this. The Jews captured apostle Paul and beheaded him because Paul was charged of heresy leading the Nazarene sect(cult). In the eyes of the general public who claim to believe in God persecuted the true believers: Paul, Peter, Stephen, the disciples. People like you also believe in God right? But you are the one persecuting the true believers in God, you even call them being in a cult! Someone who is in a cult does not follow the teachings of the bible. Let me ask you this. Do you celebrate Christmas? Are you a Sunday worshipper? If you are, then you are not following the teachings of the bible because the bible does not teach people to worship God on Sundays and also, nowhere in the bible Dec 25 is the birthday of Christ. You are being deceived by satan's schemes.

And, on July 29 at 6:11 pm, Anonymous posted on "The name of Jesus" --

What is heresy? How do we know that a church is heretical? In the bible, heresy is a practice that does not follow the doctrine of the bible. Then which church is heretical? Sunday keeping churches or Saturday keeping churches? In the bible, God commanded people to keep the Sabbath day holy, which is Saturday. There is a Sabbath in accordance with the law of Moses and there is a Sabbath in accordance with the law of Christ. Since Christ gave us examples to follow even after his baptism, He kept the Sabbath day as his custom which is on Saturday. He said he is the Lord of the Sabbath. Obviously, Sunday is not the day Jesus gave, as an example to follow. Then, which church does not follow the example of Jesus Christ? Sunday keepers or Saturday keepers? The Sunday keeping churches are obviously heretical because they do not follow the examples of Christ and his disciples. Who introduced Sunday worship then? If it did not come from God, then it must come from the enemy of God which is the devil who uses all religious leaders, priests ,pastors, government officials, etc in his evil schemes to lead the whole world astray.

It is true that when you have two people with opposing stands, each will say that they themselves have the truth and that the other is the one who is wrong. That is why it's so important for both to set aside any preconceived notions, distinguish fact from opinion, and look at the issue from a rational standpoint.

No one likes to be told they are in a cult. It could be true, or it could be a misunderstanding. Since it is a word used by professionals to describe the World Mission Society Church of God, it is worth investigating. (As a side note, one of the organizations I have a good opinion of is also on the list of cults at the Freedom of Mind resource center. Is it true or a misunderstanding or what? If I were considering joining, it would be worth investigating.)

Let me ask you this. Do you celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, New Year on January 1, Independence Day (July 4), Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc. Where does the Bible teach you to celebrate those days?

The Bible does have something to say about Sunday. Here is a place you can go for resources about Sunday and the Sabbath.

Sunday meetings were introduced by the apostles, who remembered Jesus' resurrection every time a Sunday came around. If you don't like that, then perhaps you should tell God that He should have picked a different day for the Resurrection so the apostles wouldn't have use the "Day of the Sun." Maybe He should have worked it all out for a Monday? Oh, no, then you would probably accuse Christians of "Moon worship" for meeting on Mondays...

That's all I have time for right now. It's been a very busy summer for me, but I have lots to write about and more comments to address, so I hope to get back here again soon.

Evidence for your faith -- A question for WMSCOG members

2012-05-14T13:08:00.000-07:00

I don't believe in a completely blind faith. I know that some people are perfectly happy believing in their religious faith without knowing anything substantial as evidence, and ignoring anything that has a risk of disproving their faith. That is not in my personality, though.

I have talked with atheists, agnostics, and others who question my faith in Christianity. Some have said, "How can you believe in Jesus and the Bible when there are inconsistencies, contradictions, and other problems?"

I understand this question. And so I can also understand the reluctance of World Mission Society Church of God members (and people of other religions) to abandon their faith when they are confronted with problems.

Several things happen when I am confronted with those problems, and I am sure there is a similarity between me and my sister (and other WMSCOG members). I see that:

Some of those 'contradictions' others see really do have logical explanations for them if you just look a little farther.
People do sometimes fail to act in a 'Christian' manner, but that is because we are flawed human beings. We need to look at the teaching of the faith more than the actions of the adherents.
Some of those other philosophical problems really do have answers if you will just consider another viewpoint.
For the cases that are left over, if there are no explanations or answers, I understand the objection, but it does not bother me enough to abandon my faith. Why? Because I trust God enough that He has an answer even if I can't see it.

I'd like to focus on point 4. In order to trust your faith in God enough to overcome any apparent objections, there MUST be something at the root of it as evidence, proof to build your faith on.-- something solid, like the house built on the rock (Matthew 7:25).

When I am confronted with the toughest questions about what I believe, I have to go back to that root, that rock, and remember the immovable facts my faith is built on.

The evidence can't be something that's a matter of opinion or interpretation--those are not stable or provable.

It can't be something that is entirely within the belief system, because then you get into circular arguments which don't prove anything. Basically that would be, "Why do you believe in the Bible? Because it is God's word. How do you know it is God's word? Because it tells me so."

No, it needs to be something from the outside that is factually based.

Here are two of the key pieces of evidence of my faith in Jesus and Christianity:

Support for the Resurrection is profound. It is the only logical explanation (as strange as it may be) of the events occurring after the Resurrection and the changed lives of the disciples.
There is an abundance of fulfilled prophecy in the Bible recorded in historical documents.

Now the question for WMSCOG members... What do you consider evidence for your faith in Ahn Sahng Hong and Zahng Gil Jah and the doctrine of the WMSCOG? When the WMSCOG tells you that you can't have a faith based on common sense, what evidence do you rely on to know you can trust them?

Remember, this evidence needs to be something outside the WMSCOG that is factual, verifiable.

For example, do not say your evidence is the prophecies that Ahn Sahng Hong fulfilled as the second coming Christ, because that is based on the WMSCOG's own interpretation of those prophecies.

Ok, responses please. :)

Easter -- The WMSCOG's misunderstandings

2012-04-08T01:17:00.000-07:00

It's Easter. A blessed Resurrection Day to you all!

The World Mission Society Church of God's general pastor Kim Joo-Cheol has shared this about the WMSCOG's view of Christian Easter celebrations:

Most Christians celebrate Easter by eating boiled eggs on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox. Actually, however, it originated from the pagan custom of serving Easter (Ashtoreth)—the pagan goddess who was associated with the spring sun. Easter is fundamentally different from the Resurrection Day Jesus established. (source)

The WMSCOG has some serious misunderstandings regarding Easter (Resurrection Day).

First, eating boiled eggs on Resurrection Day has nothing to do with serving a pagan goddess. It has to do with Lent. Traditionally, during the time of Lent, the people would fast, and among the foods they would not eat were eggs. What do you do when your chickens keep producing eggs but you are not allowed to eat them? Do you let them go to waste? No, you boil them, and keep them until you may eat them again. [see comments for correction] When is the fasting of Lent over, and when do you get to eat the eggs? Resurrection Day. That's how you get lots of eggs on Easter. Here's more about Lent.

Second, the "first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox" also has nothing to do with serving a pagan goddess. It has to do with the date of Easter in relation to Passover. As the early church became disconnected from Judaism, they needed to be able to mark the date of the Resurrection (which happened on the Sunday after Passover) without having to rely on the Jewish priests for the date of Passover every year.

Passover is set for the 14th day of the 1st month of the Hebrew calendar. Months on the Hebrew calendar begin with the new moon and are 28 or 29 days long, depending on the lunar cycle. The full moon occurs half way through the month (on the 14th). The spring equinox is in the first month. That's how the date is set for the first Sunday after the full moon after the spring equinox. (That's the simple way to explain it. If you want to know all the complexities, study the computus.)

While I'm on the subject, I'd like to address a few other accusations against Christians concerning paganism.

Accusation: Crosses were used in ancient pagan worship. Christians who set up crosses in their churches are following after these pagan practices. (more here)
Truth: Jesus Christ was crucified on a cross. If you are upset about that, take up your objection with God and tell Him Jesus should have died some other way.

Accusation: Sunday was used by pagans to worship the Sun-god. Christians who go to church on Sunday are really taking part in pagan Sun-god worship.
Truth: Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday. If you are upset about that, take up your objection with God and tell Him that Jesus should have picked another day to rise from the dead.

Accusation: Pagans worshiped the Sun-god, and the sun rises in the east. Christians who hold sunrise services facing to the east on Easter Sunday morning, are really worshiping the Sun-god.
Truth: The women discovered the empty tomb at sunrise on Sunday morning. If you are upset about that, take up your objection with God and tell Him that the empty tomb should have been discovered at some other time of day. You can also tell Him that He should make the sun rise from some other direction on Resurrection Day morning.

Think it's silly to approach God with these objections? Of course it is. Likewise, it is silly to accuse Christians of paganism simply because you see some surface similarities.

I think you'll like these two articles by Ralph Woodrow:
Christmas, Easter, and the Cross
Did Sunday Worship Come from Paganism?

You might remember that Ralph Woodrow wrote the book Babylon Mystery Religion which taught that many Christian practices originated from paganism. Then he realized the research was flawed and he was wrong. He pulled the book from publication and wrote The Babylon Connection? to correct his errors and set the record straight. Read more about it here.

I pray you have a blessed celebration of the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus and that all our loved ones who are involved in the WMSCOG will soon see the truth and return wholeheartedly to fellowship with their families. I also pray that the pastors and leaders of the WMSCOG will be strong enough and noble enough and humble enough to speak out about the errors and seek the truth. And finally, I pray that Zahng Gil-Jah and Kim Joo-Cheol themselves will seek forgiveness from the true God and turn from the path they have chosen.

World Mission Society Church of God Behavior -- Love and Hate

2012-03-12T14:12:00.000-07:00

When you first meet people from the World Mission Society Church of God, you might remark at how friendly, sincere, happy, and loving they are. Indeed, many that I have met are genuinely nice and caring and have a deep and sincere desire to know God. Why do these same nice people show such extreme animosity toward those who disagree with them?

This has been my experience. Has it been yours also? When I ask questions (either too many or too serious), no matter how friendly or sincerely caring my intent, I am met with hostility and insults. Why, when Jesus said we should love even our enemies (Matt. 5:43-47)?

At first I thought it was simply a failure on their part, individually. I try, but I am not always perfect at responding to confrontation either. Or maybe they are like those who purposely disregard what the Bible teaches about love, even though claiming to be Christians. But it happens so often, and they claim to obey everything the Bible teaches. What's going wrong here? The problem is in the teachings of the WMSCOG.

The WMSCOG teaches that complete obedience is required for salvation, and by that they mean complete obedience to the WMSCOG's teachings and Biblical interpretation.

So what does the WMSCOG teach about those who disagree with them?

"God awakens us to the existence of Jerusalem our Heavenly Mother, but the devil our enemy who slanders the truth is covering the glory of God by telling a lie that God the Mother does not exist." (from Do Not Call Anything Impure That God Has Made Clean)

They teach that those who don't believe in "Mother God" are spreading lies and slander from the devil--listening to them is listening to the devil. It's very sad that they won't even consider that what they think is a lie is actually verifiable truth.

"The devil is our enemy because he has become the enemy of Elohim-especially God our Mother. The serpent [the devil] is a perpetual enemy of the woman. The woman, our Mother, leads us into life, but the serpent [the devil] tries to lead us into death. From the beginning there was enmity between them, and to the very end of the age the enmity will continue. He constantly hinders the truth about Mother through various tricks. To prevent us from knowing Mother who gives us life, he denies the Biblical records of Elohim working together by every tricky word and scheme. Thus, he tries his utmost to swallow our souls and lead us into death. The more the devil hinders us, the more we should be alert and self-controlled, so that we may resist the devil with the correct knowledge of God.... The dragon, the ancient serpent called the devil, is mobilizing numerous people like the sand on the seashore, so-called Christians, to oppose Mother and us who follow Her (Rev 12:17)." (from The Elohim Gods)

They teach that anyone who is against "Mother" (Zahng Gil-Jah) is a servant of the enemy Satan, and that any argument that sounds convincing is one of the devil's tricks to lead them to death. Doesn't that sound like the kind of logic a deceiver would use to avoid being exposed?

"The Bible says that the spirit that does not acknowledge God can come in the flesh is the spirit of the antichrist, and warns that we must not accept it.... Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is from Satan.... If anyone denies God's incarnation, he is not a Christian but the one controlled by the spirit of the antichrist." (from Christianity is a Religion That Believes in Incarnation of God)

They teach that it's the antichrist who doesn't believe in Ahnsahnghong is God in the flesh. In fact, they teach that anyone who speaks against the WMSCOG in any way is a servant of Satan...

"Then, why do Satan's servants masquerade as servants of righteousness? They do that for the only one purpose of leading people, even God's chosen ones, to hell by deceiving them. ...we should diligently preach the gospel of truth to the people, enlightening them to know the real identity of Satan and his servants who hinder the gospel of God and devour men's souls. They deceive people into believing that what God's people keep or celebrate is not truth.... What does the Bible say about Satan's servants who blaspheme against God and His people? It says that God scoffs at them and He will break them with an iron rod and dash them to pieces like pottery." (from Hindrance of Satan and Victory of God)

Back to the main question--why do we see such animosity from our loved ones when we are only trying to help them? Because they are taught that Satan is using us to try to take them away from the "truth." Their anger towards us is their anger towards Satan.

The important lesson for us here is to understand why this is happening. That understanding may help us to avoid responding with equal animosity.

As for the logic of this teaching, I can only tell our WMSCOG friends this...
Be careful! Satan is a skillful deceiver. Don't fall for his schemes. Don't just call these claims about the WMSCOG lies and ignore them. Don't just listen to your leaders' explanations. Check it out for yourself. Think for yourself.

By the way, for those of us who wonder why our loved ones can't seem to see a problem that looks perfectly clear to us, maybe it's because they are also being told...
"We, too, should completely follow what God has taught and instructed us to do, as the children of God, instead of having a faith based on common sense." (from Do Not Call Anything Impure That God Has Made Clean)

If you like allegories, read "The Last Battle" by C.S. Lewis. It's the final book in the Chronicles of Narnia and gives a good example of how deception and mind control are used to lead people to worship a false Christ.