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	<title>Comments for EnergyDSM.com</title>
	
	<link>http://www.energydsm.com</link>
	<description>Plug into all things demand side management</description>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome to EnergyDSM.com! by Josh Schellenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2009/09/welcome-to-energydsm-com/comment-page-1/#comment-793</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Schellenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=113#comment-793</guid>
		<description>test3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test3</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/Z8EzJsYowsIUWg_loG3adPL1OwE/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/Z8EzJsYowsIUWg_loG3adPL1OwE/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome to EnergyDSM.com! by Josh Schellenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2009/09/welcome-to-energydsm-com/comment-page-1/#comment-792</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Schellenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=113#comment-792</guid>
		<description>test</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/5Q5neCUIR5Wi7EqL4ohcBjV4PYU/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/5Q5neCUIR5Wi7EqL4ohcBjV4PYU/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome to EnergyDSM.com! by test</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2009/09/welcome-to-energydsm-com/comment-page-1/#comment-791</link>
		<dc:creator>test</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=113#comment-791</guid>
		<description>test</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/HVriHYNZZ6WK01-iSk2l1KBkzSE/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/HVriHYNZZ6WK01-iSk2l1KBkzSE/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by Richard Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-790</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-790</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion.  My first comment is on CAFE.  What is your goal with CAFE?  Reducing dependency on foreign oil has been the major goal.  But you know what?  Over the 30+ years of increasing CAFE, people have bought the biggest vehicle they can afford and with the better mileage they drove it more.  The number of vehicles and miles driven and gasoline bought have been continously climbing, maybe with the exception of 2008 when gas hit $4 per gallon.  Price does matter!
If efficiency is your goal, CAFE is ok.  But if conservation of energy, is your goal it does not work.
My second comment is No, Americans will not change the wasteful energy habits without a good economic reason.
Here is a true statement. Half of the people in the US are below average intelligence.  Now we can discuss whether that average is going up or down, but half are still in the bottom half.  These are not stupid people but mostly hard working members of our society.  And yes they need thing in simpler terms and they understand daily economics.  Can I buy gas and feed my family?
I strongly believe in Washington DC getting the courage to set a National Energy Policy that will result in a direct tax on gas (oil) and coal.   This will be painful on everyone, but it will result in greater conservation of energy and hopefully help us to start to break our bad habits of wasting cheap energy. How did we get people to kick the cigarette habit?  Tax the heck out of cigarettes and use advertizing to explain why it was a bad habit.  If we had taxed the cigarette companies for air pollution to cause the price to rise, the smokers would not see it as "their" problem and would get very angry as they continued to smoke.  The direct tax says, you control your own destiny whether you like it or not.
By the way, my plan includes how this massive influx of billions of dollars into Washington would be controlled and spent and with public oversight.  Most going into developing alternative energy solutions, into infrastructure rebuilding, into effective mass transit and into rebuilding our crumbling cities where many will want to move back into.  There is also some for those caught in this transition.  It is not easy to break bad habits, but a swift kick in the pocket book does wonders.  Also this is not a tax for the week, but a long term plan to increase the tax gradually over maybe 7-10 years.  Does it work or will it work?  Just look at Europe and the small cars they drive, their dependence of mass transit and their quest for reducing their energy bills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion.  My first comment is on CAFE.  What is your goal with CAFE?  Reducing dependency on foreign oil has been the major goal.  But you know what?  Over the 30+ years of increasing CAFE, people have bought the biggest vehicle they can afford and with the better mileage they drove it more.  The number of vehicles and miles driven and gasoline bought have been continously climbing, maybe with the exception of 2008 when gas hit $4 per gallon.  Price does matter!<br />
If efficiency is your goal, CAFE is ok.  But if conservation of energy, is your goal it does not work.<br />
My second comment is No, Americans will not change the wasteful energy habits without a good economic reason.<br />
Here is a true statement. Half of the people in the US are below average intelligence.  Now we can discuss whether that average is going up or down, but half are still in the bottom half.  These are not stupid people but mostly hard working members of our society.  And yes they need thing in simpler terms and they understand daily economics.  Can I buy gas and feed my family?<br />
I strongly believe in Washington DC getting the courage to set a National Energy Policy that will result in a direct tax on gas (oil) and coal.   This will be painful on everyone, but it will result in greater conservation of energy and hopefully help us to start to break our bad habits of wasting cheap energy. How did we get people to kick the cigarette habit?  Tax the heck out of cigarettes and use advertizing to explain why it was a bad habit.  If we had taxed the cigarette companies for air pollution to cause the price to rise, the smokers would not see it as &#8220;their&#8221; problem and would get very angry as they continued to smoke.  The direct tax says, you control your own destiny whether you like it or not.<br />
By the way, my plan includes how this massive influx of billions of dollars into Washington would be controlled and spent and with public oversight.  Most going into developing alternative energy solutions, into infrastructure rebuilding, into effective mass transit and into rebuilding our crumbling cities where many will want to move back into.  There is also some for those caught in this transition.  It is not easy to break bad habits, but a swift kick in the pocket book does wonders.  Also this is not a tax for the week, but a long term plan to increase the tax gradually over maybe 7-10 years.  Does it work or will it work?  Just look at Europe and the small cars they drive, their dependence of mass transit and their quest for reducing their energy bills.</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/QYZF-9WIFMNCGpvFDJMwtbYMvXg/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/QYZF-9WIFMNCGpvFDJMwtbYMvXg/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by Bill Rauch</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-789</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Rauch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-789</guid>
		<description>I think the interesting thing is that people do want to change, but don't know how.  This sounds like an education gap more than anything.  It is however a bit short-sited to say that people would change it they did know how.  Even those of us who have knowledge run the daily economics of cheap energy versus energy upgrades and come up with such marginal or long term pay-backs that it is hard to commit.  On a personal level, the cost of proper insulation, appliance upgrades etc. let alone solar installation do not make sense.   

From the technology side, technology must make sense in an economic way - without subsidies.  If the economic advantage is not there, and it is in the best interest of everyone, then the government should mandate compliance to a higher standard.  CAFE standards for cars is one example, as is the phasing out of Plasma TVs in California.  But real enforcement of strict energy building codes and believable ratings such as "energy star" (though fraud appears to be an issue there as well) are critical to reducing overall energy consumption.  As seen in CAFE standards, we were all told how expensive cars would become, but the assets of large corporations saw to it that the rise in car prices was minimized.  Other government regulations are likely to be the same - overrun with claims that consumers will suffer, but when it comes to losing market, industry will innovate to save our bottom line in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the interesting thing is that people do want to change, but don&#8217;t know how.  This sounds like an education gap more than anything.  It is however a bit short-sited to say that people would change it they did know how.  Even those of us who have knowledge run the daily economics of cheap energy versus energy upgrades and come up with such marginal or long term pay-backs that it is hard to commit.  On a personal level, the cost of proper insulation, appliance upgrades etc. let alone solar installation do not make sense.   </p>
<p>From the technology side, technology must make sense in an economic way &#8211; without subsidies.  If the economic advantage is not there, and it is in the best interest of everyone, then the government should mandate compliance to a higher standard.  CAFE standards for cars is one example, as is the phasing out of Plasma TVs in California.  But real enforcement of strict energy building codes and believable ratings such as &#8220;energy star&#8221; (though fraud appears to be an issue there as well) are critical to reducing overall energy consumption.  As seen in CAFE standards, we were all told how expensive cars would become, but the assets of large corporations saw to it that the rise in car prices was minimized.  Other government regulations are likely to be the same &#8211; overrun with claims that consumers will suffer, but when it comes to losing market, industry will innovate to save our bottom line in the end.</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/TfSPVgBjIQ7820f2MpMtbuWkGAk/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/TfSPVgBjIQ7820f2MpMtbuWkGAk/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by David Pinto</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-788</link>
		<dc:creator>David Pinto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-788</guid>
		<description>You mention demand side research. Yes, in fact one could argue demand response was one of the first pieces of the smart grid to emerge. But what makes a grid “smart” is the communications…an information network integrated on top of the power grid. But that’s one part of the equation: the more critical component in terms of changing “behavior” – not just of Americans -- is to present this information clearly and in a context that a specific electricity consumer can understand. 

Emerging integrated demand response technology now works to “inform &amp; motivate” power users to effectively curtail or manage energy use, and thus directly help improve grid reliability. As energy information becomes more abundantly available, the ability to distill it down to a few critical pieces of information that are easy to understand and drive action is critical. The barriers to increased participation have been its perceived complexity and varying rules of engagement, as well as the prospect of adversely impacting operations or the bottom line to do so. Many energy users would prefer complete flexibility in determining when and how to participate, as opposed to a system that mandates the “command and control” of an outside party. Participants in event-based command and control type programs would also like the opportunity to augment their earnings with inform and motivate style price-based programs.  An integrated approach is needed…one that combines the two and allows participants to remain in control of their operations and costs while also providing a valuable standby service to the grid.

We all have seen presentations by folks who insist they have tried price-responsive demand and it does not work. “Even at $0.60 per kWh, we still can’t get customers to do anything,” said one just recently. The problem is that you need to do more than just send a price signal.  The price information needs to be translated into the customers’ context and further quantified against actions they can take to extract the most advantage from the opportunity.  Furthermore, it needs to be presented in a format that takes no more than a few seconds to understand. Of course, all this, as well as the aforementioned “kick” and common-sense governance/policies would go a long way. Still, at least we’re taking steps in the right direction!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mention demand side research. Yes, in fact one could argue demand response was one of the first pieces of the smart grid to emerge. But what makes a grid “smart” is the communications…an information network integrated on top of the power grid. But that’s one part of the equation: the more critical component in terms of changing “behavior” – not just of Americans &#8212; is to present this information clearly and in a context that a specific electricity consumer can understand. </p>
<p>Emerging integrated demand response technology now works to “inform &amp; motivate” power users to effectively curtail or manage energy use, and thus directly help improve grid reliability. As energy information becomes more abundantly available, the ability to distill it down to a few critical pieces of information that are easy to understand and drive action is critical. The barriers to increased participation have been its perceived complexity and varying rules of engagement, as well as the prospect of adversely impacting operations or the bottom line to do so. Many energy users would prefer complete flexibility in determining when and how to participate, as opposed to a system that mandates the “command and control” of an outside party. Participants in event-based command and control type programs would also like the opportunity to augment their earnings with inform and motivate style price-based programs.  An integrated approach is needed…one that combines the two and allows participants to remain in control of their operations and costs while also providing a valuable standby service to the grid.</p>
<p>We all have seen presentations by folks who insist they have tried price-responsive demand and it does not work. “Even at $0.60 per kWh, we still can’t get customers to do anything,” said one just recently. The problem is that you need to do more than just send a price signal.  The price information needs to be translated into the customers’ context and further quantified against actions they can take to extract the most advantage from the opportunity.  Furthermore, it needs to be presented in a format that takes no more than a few seconds to understand. Of course, all this, as well as the aforementioned “kick” and common-sense governance/policies would go a long way. Still, at least we’re taking steps in the right direction!</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/GDdnDijE-4wowmEMX4_uNZsoDcM/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/GDdnDijE-4wowmEMX4_uNZsoDcM/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by Sean B.</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-787</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-787</guid>
		<description>Ah ha moment....
so if it is a conflict about studies then it is statistically influenced and 90% of statics will say what you want them to say. Therefore you can say that Americans don't know how to go about being energy efficient although they want to be energy efficient. Or you can blame industry standards, or you can point out that it is a conscious choice (based on price).... therefore what is the real answer?

You pointed out that it is standardization, technologies and government direction. I think that energy efficient choices need to come from education....(people sound educated but still make inefficient choices) then the next choice is standardization changes and promotion (advertising)... if the mindset is already there to be energy efficient then advertisers need to make advertising moves to get people to buy those energy efficient products.... just look at the iphone/droid 'war'.... it is new, they say everyone wants one and it is a booming industry.... personally I don't want one and I still wonder if a 'non' iphone is available for me to purchase...

How would you advertise &lt;a href="http://www.websolarsearch.com/solar_powered_homes" rel="nofollow"&gt;Solar Powered Homes&lt;/a&gt; when people already know there is a huge price sticker attached to it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah ha moment&#8230;.<br />
so if it is a conflict about studies then it is statistically influenced and 90% of statics will say what you want them to say. Therefore you can say that Americans don&#8217;t know how to go about being energy efficient although they want to be energy efficient. Or you can blame industry standards, or you can point out that it is a conscious choice (based on price)&#8230;. therefore what is the real answer?</p>
<p>You pointed out that it is standardization, technologies and government direction. I think that energy efficient choices need to come from education&#8230;.(people sound educated but still make inefficient choices) then the next choice is standardization changes and promotion (advertising)&#8230; if the mindset is already there to be energy efficient then advertisers need to make advertising moves to get people to buy those energy efficient products&#8230;. just look at the iphone/droid &#8216;war&#8217;&#8230;. it is new, they say everyone wants one and it is a booming industry&#8230;. personally I don&#8217;t want one and I still wonder if a &#8216;non&#8217; iphone is available for me to purchase&#8230;</p>
<p>How would you advertise <a href="http://www.websolarsearch.com/solar_powered_homes" rel="nofollow">Solar Powered Homes</a> when people already know there is a huge price sticker attached to it?</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/tfrVxqz1E-Y3BccmjHSE-nkdrvQ/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/tfrVxqz1E-Y3BccmjHSE-nkdrvQ/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by Josh Schellenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-786</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Schellenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-786</guid>
		<description>I was mainly referring to having a minimum level of efficiency for all appliances so people do not end up buying the cheap air conditioner even though it will cost them more in the long run.  In addition, new construction needs to have minimum standards for insulation and weatherization as well as appliances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was mainly referring to having a minimum level of efficiency for all appliances so people do not end up buying the cheap air conditioner even though it will cost them more in the long run.  In addition, new construction needs to have minimum standards for insulation and weatherization as well as appliances.</p>

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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by Energy Business and Finance @ PSU</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator>Energy Business and Finance @ PSU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 06:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-785</guid>
		<description>Perhaps we do need a "swift kick" of sorts to get us into action.

From my experiences, effective energy management delivers green to both the fiscal and environmental bottom lines. In my state, Pennsylvania, deregulation of electricity markets is still in its transition stages, so businesses have yet to feel the full impact of "real" market prices. Once free from the "consumer protectionism" that regulated markets have provided, maybe we'll see some more action toward change in practices. If businesses are currently paying, say $80/MWh and will pay $140/MWh in the deregulated marketplace, it will behoove them to seek out solutions that will save money - thus reducing both costs and environmental impact.

What kinds of changes in code are you suggesting? For residential consumers, mandating energy efficient appliances and such? For commercial/industrial/institutional customers, mandating building automation systems and energy efficient machinery?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps we do need a &#8220;swift kick&#8221; of sorts to get us into action.</p>
<p>From my experiences, effective energy management delivers green to both the fiscal and environmental bottom lines. In my state, Pennsylvania, deregulation of electricity markets is still in its transition stages, so businesses have yet to feel the full impact of &#8220;real&#8221; market prices. Once free from the &#8220;consumer protectionism&#8221; that regulated markets have provided, maybe we&#8217;ll see some more action toward change in practices. If businesses are currently paying, say $80/MWh and will pay $140/MWh in the deregulated marketplace, it will behoove them to seek out solutions that will save money &#8211; thus reducing both costs and environmental impact.</p>
<p>What kinds of changes in code are you suggesting? For residential consumers, mandating energy efficient appliances and such? For commercial/industrial/institutional customers, mandating building automation systems and energy efficient machinery?</p>

<p><a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/pNGfhX_zOTsFJYWVcrttfTGbkAs/0/da"><img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/pNGfhX_zOTsFJYWVcrttfTGbkAs/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"></img></a><br/>
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		<title>Comment on Do Americans Really Want to Change Energy Habits? by Josh Schellenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.energydsm.com/2010/08/do-americans-really-want-to-change-energy-habits/comment-page-1/#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Schellenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 06:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energydsm.com/?p=911#comment-784</guid>
		<description>In addition to business strategies and technologies, we need proper direction from the government.  I'm beginning to think that codes and standards are the most cost-effective solutions from a governmental perspective.  Although many consider codes and standards "un-American", they are sometimes the only way to enact significant change.  If it weren't for fuel standards for cars, we'd still be driving at 10 mpg.  The CAFE standards are going to force car makers to make even more efficient cars.  It seems like a cost-effective solution to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to business strategies and technologies, we need proper direction from the government.  I&#8217;m beginning to think that codes and standards are the most cost-effective solutions from a governmental perspective.  Although many consider codes and standards &#8220;un-American&#8221;, they are sometimes the only way to enact significant change.  If it weren&#8217;t for fuel standards for cars, we&#8217;d still be driving at 10 mpg.  The CAFE standards are going to force car makers to make even more efficient cars.  It seems like a cost-effective solution to me.</p>

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