ESL Jobs Forum

Say Anything... :: RE: Do you have a pension plan?

Author: St. George
Subject: Having a good time
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:11 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 6

I took out a private pension but couldn't really afford to pay much and for my spasmodic payments of �50 a month, I now get �600 a year.

It's better than nothing but I wish I hadn't had such a good time and invested more in my pension. I'm now having to work to make up the shortfall.

Gold and silver are the best investments just now.

St G

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Newbie advice - would the Will-Excel option work?

Author: unionjack
Subject: Locked
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:39 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 9

There you have it.

ESLemployment.com do not want to become involved in disputes of this nature and therefore anyone requiring further clarification should contact the posters directly.

This topic is now locked

UJ

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Newbie advice - would the Will-Excel option work?

Author: WillExcelTESOL
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:05 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 9

The following is an approved message by the Will-Excel TESOL Institute based out of Harbin, China.

In short, the majority of the claims made by �tzenkethi� above on July 4, 2009 at 3:36 am are completely false. It is impossible to give a full and accurate account of what transpired between the dates of June 4 and July 2 in brief. As such, we have included the entire account below.

Though quite lengthy, interested parties will find viewing this material useful in deciphering the inaccuracies stated above with the actual truth of the matter.

To be as brief as possible, we will only quote the major errors in the OP�s original post.

Quote:

a fairly fruitless search for detailed feedback in the forums (a few first-hand positive experiences thin on detail, and a lot of baseless negative opinions),

Among many others results, a standard Google search for �Will-Excel TESOL� will yield the following:

http://willexceltesol.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/WillExcelTESOL
http://www.youtube.com/user/WillExcelTESOL
http://www.teflcoursereview.com/will-excel-tesol/#comments

The links above contain a wealth of information and first-hand experience that teachers have with the course, provided accommodation, their sponsor schools, etc.

The original post continues:

Quote:

The reply came back quickly (the next day) as did most replies, however there was no attempt to answer my questions

OP to Will-Excel TESOL on June 4
------------------------------

Quote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Having visited your web site, I'm interested in learning more about your TESOL Course.

I'm a native English speaker from the UK, currently living in China - Shenyang, Liaoning Province. I don't have a university degree, but I do have over 14 years work experience in IT, including some internal and customer training experience. I'm looking to change careers, and wanted something that involved working with people, therefore English Teaching seems to be a logical choice. I've looked into many different courses in China, including the CELTA, but was especially interested in your company having read so many good reviews from previous attendees.

Note here that the OP mentions he is writing to us based on

Quote:

so many good reviews from previous attendees

Why, then did he write the following:

Quote:

fairly fruitless search for detailed feedback in the forums (a few first-hand positive experiences thin on detail, and a lot of baseless negative opinions),

The OP�s email continues:

Quote:

Any information about the assessment criteria would be especially useful. As would more information about the location of your sponsor schools.

I was also wondering if it would be possible to visit your site, and have a chat in person about the course and see the facilities?

I look forward to receiving your reply.

We responded on June 4. In response, the OP received our standard reply, which includes our brochure (a summary of the program, course content, etc.), links to further information, and the following:

Will-Excel TESOL to OP on June 4
------------------------------

Quote:

Thank you for expressing interest in our program. We are now selecting applicants for our June 22nd, August 3rd and November 2nd programs.

I've attached a copy of our brochure, which includes an FAQ, to answer any questions you may have. If you have any questions that are not answered in the attached document, or if you have trouble opening it, please let me know.

You can view more information about our program and day-to-day events by viewing the following:

TESOL Blog: http://willexceltesol.blogspot.com/
TESOL Photo Album: http://picasaweb.google.com/WillExcelTESOL
TESOL Video Testimonials: http://www.youtube.com/user/WillExcelTESOL

A trip to visit us in person would be possible, granted advanced notice was given. We're currently between programs, so our schedule is open on weekdays up until the 19th of June.

In order to apply to our program, please send us a copy of your resume, a scanned copy of your passport along with biodata page, scans of your highest degree received (e.g. Bachelors of Arts degree, high school diploma, etc.), a recent photo, and a completed application form from our website www.WillExcelTESOL.com. Once we have these documents we can begin processing your application.

The original post above continues:

Quote:

I was a little disappointed with this evasion, and therefore pushed for a face-to-face meeting and asked again about the location of their schools. He agreed to a meeting, but wanted me to apply for the programme first � which was fair enough, but he again evaded answering my question and simply tried to push me towards the self-funded option.

The word �evasion� here is quite peculiar, seeing how all of his questions were answered either in the brochure, on the website, or in the comment quoted above. At this stage, there was also no mention of the self-funded option, as can be seen from our initial email above.

The OP then responded with the following:

OP to Will-Excel TESOL on June 5
------------------------------

Quote:

Many thanks for your quick reply, and the information which I've read with interest.

In theory I would be interested in the November 2nd programme.

I would be interested in viewing the video testimonials, however YouTube appears to be blocked at the moment in China. Is there another way to view these?

As discussed I would like to visit your site in Harbin, and this would probably therefore be during the week ending 19th June. I will be in contact again soon with the exact date when I've arranged train tickets and a hotel.

The only question I have at this time is whether you have any partner schools in the Shenyang area for the teaching term, as I'd ideally like to remain near home (north-east) if possible?

With regards to application, I'd like to bring the requested items with me in person and submit them to you directly after the visit if that's acceptable with you? My resume is currently entirely focused on the IT industry, as that's been my area of work in the past - would you prefer a shortened version, with more background information with regard to ESL, or just as-is?

Will-Excel TESOL to OP on June 6
------------------------------

Quote:

You'll need to use a proxy to get around the "Great Firewall" here in China. You can use a free proxy site found online just by Googling "free proxy server", or, if you use Firefox/Mozilla, by downloading and installing the "Gladder" add on. Both of these methods will allow you to access YouTube.

Before meeting in person, it would be ideal if we could view your application materials first. This way, we'll both go into the meeting knowing that you're a suitable candidate for the course. We'll also need electronic copies of these materials to forward to potential sponsor schools.

If you're only interested in teaching in one specific city, you may be interested in looking at our self-funded option, which allows you to choose your own employer, and also offers the freedom to pay your tuition fees over an extended period of time, therefore minimizing up front costs.

As for your resume, you can leave it as is, though you will need to tailor the objective to English teaching.

Again, referring to the use of the OP�s use of the word �evasion�, it is quite clear that all of his original questions up to this time have been answered. We also state quite clearly why we are recommending the self-funded option granted the OP�s preference to

Quote:

to remain near home (north-east)

It�s also quite confusing why the OP mentions later in the original post that

Quote:

The replies all seemed to be copy and paste jobs (like the majority of the previous emails)

At this stage in our dialogue, the OP had received only 2 emails from us, both of which addressed his questions specifically. It should also be quite clear from the emails quoted below that all correspondence was done so in responding to specific questions and inquiries.

The original post above continues:

Quote:

I really wanted to get some answers from them, so before sending in the application, I tried asking questions again, but this time numbering them to as to make each question accountable. This seemed to work better, in that he answered each question, but still in a very evasive way that after reading the answers I was none-the-wiser.

For brevity, I�ve combined the OP�s reply along with our response. Again, the use of �evasive� here is still very troubling as it is crystal clear that we have provided specific details to each of his questions.

OP to Will-Excel TESOL on June 6
Will-Excel TESOL to OP on June 7
------------------------------

Quote:

Thanks again for another quick reply.

Before sending my application, I would greatly appreciate it if you could answer a couple of questions:

1) How is the TESOL certificate assessed? What are the assessment criteria?

1. Course grades are marked 40% based on academic performance on various tasks, or quizzes, and 60% on student evaluations collected throughout the teaching term. Marks are based using the American Grade Point Average (GPA) scale of 4.0.

2) What happens if a student fails a sponsored course? Or does every participant pass simply by attending?

2. Our current pass rate is 91%. Teachers who fail the course do not receive their Diploma.

3) What processes are in place to deal with any disputes with sponsor schools during the teaching term, such as non-payment of salary? If the relationship with the sponsor school were to completely collapse, is it still possible to get the TESOL certificate?

3. Sponsor schools enter into a three-party contract, whereby Will-Excel TESOL oversees that all aspects of the contract between the sponsor school and the teacher are followed. We do not sign on sponsor schools until they have passed a thorough screening process. In the case that the relationship between the sponsor school and the teacher breaks down by fault of the sponsor school, Will-Excel TESOL assists the teacher in finding a new, suitable sponsor school. Under these circumstances, the teacher is still eligible for their Diploma.

4) How does the teaching term feedback determine if the diploma should or should not be awarded?

4. See question #1.

5) If sponsored, is it at all possible to limit the sponsor schools by location, such as the north-eastern provinces (including Harbin)? Although my home city would obviously be the most convenient, I'm open to other locations but would just prefer to have the option to take a train journey home if necessary.

5. We try our best to accommodate to all applicants needs. In the case that the applicant's preferences cannot be met, the applicant is not required to accept the sponsored position, and may look into enrolling in the program under other options.

Our answers seem quite clear here, which begs the question why the OP writes (quoted above):

Quote:

still in a very evasive way that after reading the answers I was none-the-wiser.

The OP submitted his application materials on June 9 and was promptly asked to create an interview recording. The interview recording was submitted on June 13. The OP was offered a position in our November 2 program on June 16.

Along with the standard offer, we included in the email:

Will-Excel TESOL to OP on June 16
------------------------------

Quote:

We can only guarantee a position for you for the next 48 hours as space in this program is very limited. As you have mentioned visiting our site, we should be able to hold this offer until after your visit, granted that visit is this week. However, I am only available to meet up until Friday afternoon, June 19. After that, I'll be busy with the June 22 intake. If you'd like to visit after that date, you'd need to wait until after July 20.

I had hoped to get at least a week's notice from you regarding your visit. As it stands now, my schedule is quite inflexible. If you plan on visiting this week, I'm free during the following times:

June 17 Wednesday 1 - 2 pm
June 18 Thursday 9 am - 12 pm
June 19 Friday 9 am - 12 pm

A brief tour of our training center and a sit down to discuss any questions you have shouldn't take any longer than an hour.

I'll need at least 24 hours notice on any visit this week. Notice less than 24 hours may result in me being unavailable.

Will-Excel TESOL to OP on June 16 at 11:52 pm
------------------------------

Quote:

I've now arranged transport and accommodation to Harbin this week, and I'd like to meet with you on Thursday morning, say around 10am if that's still convenient?

With regards to visa requirements, I'm currently living in China on a special type of tourist visa which is renewed annually, but doesn't allow me to work. I assume I can attend the course on this visa, but when the teaching term begins I will need a conversion to a work permit?

If the course fees are paid online, how do I get a paper receipt as proof of payment?

And in a second email sent immediately after the above:

Quote:

I'm leaving early this morning for Harbin, and probably won't have access to email so I'm going to assume the meeting is on for Thursday at 10am, and also that I should come to your training center address.

If there is a problem, please contact me on (mobile number provided here)

The original post continues:

Quote:

I got an offer to join the November programme under the self-funded option, because apparently ALL the sponsored positions had already been filled. A little hard to believe at this early stage�?

At the time that the OP wrote, on June 16, all available sponsored positions had been filled. It just so happened, however, that between the sending of this email and our meeting on June 18 that a position opened.

Quote:

The offer was pushing me to pay $500 within the next 48 hours, however they said I could defer the payment until after my visit, as long as I visited this week. Then complaining that they had wanted 1 week notice of my visit, (which had already been given!), and they were the ones saying I needed to visit at that time�?

There were never any �complaints� about the visit. As is clearly evident in all of the above posts and emails, the OP was told that he was welcome to meet us in Harbin for a tour of our facilities.

Despite the delay in receiving his application materials (the application was first requested on June 4 and completed on June 13), we accommodated to his request for a meeting on a short notice. His above email sent June 16 at 11:52 pm was received the morning of June 17, giving only 24 hours notice.

Quote:

As they had given me no time to confirm arrangements of the meeting

It would be more appropriate to say that we were given no notice of the OP�s arrival. We frequently receive emails from prospective teachers requesting a meeting. It was not until we received his email (quoted above) that we had any definitive indication that the OP would be arriving for the requested meaning.

Quote:

It turns out that Will-Excel use Sunshine�s office space at two of their locations, and have no premises of their own.

This is incorrect. Though our training center is based out of one of Sunshine�s four branches throughout Harbin, we also have our own office location in Harbin.

Quote:

In reality, the Will-Excel partnership consists of a recruiter/teacher employed by Sunshine, and the co-founder/director of foreign affairs at Sunshine.

Our relationship specifically with Sunshine is that of a teacher training partner. All of Sunshine�s teachers are trained exclusively through Will-Excel TESOL. Sunshine is one of dozens of partners that we have located throughout China.

Quote:

Each input session is followed by a written multi-choice or single-sentence answer quiz the following day.

Of the course�s written assessment materials required, none of them are multi-choice. This was made clear during our meeting.

Quote:

Homework consists almost exclusively of lesson plans and grammar exercises.

This is inaccurate. There are a number of follow-up activities required to be completed outside of class, as well as assigned readings pertaining to material covered in class.

Quote:

Limited computer access is provided

The training center provides eight computers for teachers to work on. In addition, each TESOL apartment is equipped with a personal computer that new teachers are welcome to use.

Quote:

The accommodation is shared by up to 3 people (or couples) during the first month (training period)

The comment here about �3 couples� is also inaccurate. Apartments exceed no more than four people (in the case of an attending couple). Everyone is given a private bedroom.

Quote:

Any social events that you decided to attend will of course be at your own expense.

Will-Excel TESOL arranges several social events free of charge for participants, including a welcome dinner, farewell lunch and graduation dinner.

Quote:

Future employers currently have to email Will-Excel to ask if a certificate/diploma is authentic, although there is a future plan to allow automated online checking.

Though employers within China may contact us directly to verify issued certificates and diplomas, no verification is necessary since each graduate receives a certificate/diploma accredited by the local bureau of education as is clearly evident from the bureau�s stamp. This system is in place so that only graduates of our program can claim that they have participated in and completed the program.

In China, forging the use of official stamps is a severe crime and punishable by de-licensing, disbanding and jail time. More on this below.

Quote:

The Heilongjiang Provincial Education Bureau do NOT authorise anyone to issue certificates to foreigners.

This is also inaccurate.

Our certificates and diplomas are indeed accredited by the Heilongjiang Provincial Education Bureau via our partnership with the哈尔滨市民办非学历协会 (Pinyin: Haerbin Shi Minban FeiXueli Xiehui). A literal word-for-word translation of this in English is �Harbin City Resident Manage Non-University Degree Association�.

This association, as is evident in the name, is responsible for overseeing all non-university programs, including, but not limited to, English and other language schools, Mandarin study programs designed specifically for foreigners, professional and vocational certifications, diplomas, etc. As such, all lawful and accredited certificates and diplomas issued in Harbin must have the approval of this association.

Quote:

This was proven by first personally calling the bureau and asking several depts, none of which have heard of the company, and also with the kind help of high-ranking official in the Liaoning education bureau who confirmed that no company has this authorisation.

I�m not familiar with the OP�s sources. However, they are indeed mistaken.

Quote:

Will-Excel do NOT have government accreditation for their certificates

Disproved above.

Quote:

and when asked to produce evidence they eventually admitted to not having any written agreement or authorisation from anyone, but could fabricate one given a couple of weeks.

Again, more inaccuracies. The OP, during his visit, was told that the requested paperwork was not on hand. The OP visited our training headquarters, per his request seen in the email above. The OP did not visit our office, where said documentation is located.

As such, the term �fabricate� is wholly unwarranted, and a gross misinterpretation of what was actually said.

Quote:

The current red Chinese stamp on the certificate is from a Harbin city-level association which authorises English training centres to give certificates to English students.

As mentioned above, this particular association actually oversees all non-university programs. Any professional course, extending far beyond English schools, must seek to be accredited by this particular association.

Quote:

Given that Sunshine is an English training centre, the origin of this stamp doesn�t seem too difficult to guess.

It�s quite clear that, yes, we are both accredited by the same government association that accredits non-university schools and programs. Such a stamp can be found at any institution, private, public, vocational, etc, that has been approved by this association.

Quote:

The typical training schedule consists of: input sessions from Tuesday to Friday, including 1 hour of Chinese lessons each day

It�s actually 70 minutes of Mandarin training per class, with a total of 20 hours throughout the term of the course.

Quote:

an optional workshop each week for assisting with lesson plans.

This �workshop� is actually a mandatory input session for new teachers to attend. The objective is to assist trainees with preparing for their teaching practice.

Quote:

Also a sponsored position suddenly became available at Sunshine, so I decided to see if they would give a formal offer. A positive reply came back to me that evening, and I arranged to return to their training centre the next day to review the contracts.

The OP clearly demonstrated himself to be a very capable person throughout the first meeting, which lasted over two hours. It is very rare to find someone who takes as much care in researching as him. We believed at that time that if he put half as much effort into developing as a teacher as he had through this application process, he would certainly prove himself to be a major asset to the sponsor school. As such, we felt confident in offering him a position.

We only wish now that he would have put as much effort into checking his facts and sources than is presented in this post.

Quote:

Upon reviewing the contracts I became immediately concerned at the 60-day notice period, number of teaching hours per week (22) compared with the very low salary (4000RMB per month=45/RMB per hour!)

It should be noted here that this offer from the sponsor school included the following:

4000 RMB/month and in additional 1000 RMB/month in bonuses
Free accommodation throughout the term of the teaching term
All visas fees paid for by the employer
Free meals each day
Free transportation to and from class
TESOL Diploma sponsorship (the sponsor school would pay the remaining US$1300 for the teacher)

Quote:

The TESOL contract�didn�t even state that you would be awarded a certificate!

Direct from our TESOL contract:

Quote:

Party-A will issue a final transcript to Party-B outlining all courses completed and the scores received on each course. Providing Party-B receives a cumulative GPA of 2.0 or higher Party-A will issue him/her with a graduation TESOL certificate.

The original post continues:

Quote:

Having asked for this to be included, and attempting for a second time to start negotiations regarding salary, they took over a week to reply, finally just stating that they would not negotiate at all,

Quote:

Even baring all this mind, and against my better judgment, I agreed to proceed on the logic that I�m only risking $200 (compared to $1250 for most TESOL courses), provided that I had a copy of these policy manuals in my possession. They then replied saying that they�d decided to give the position to another applicant

The OP was told very clearly, both in our first and second meeting, which took place on June 18 and June 19, that the sponsor school would not negotiate salary. Regardless, the OP continued to draw the process out. Between the time that the position was offered on June 19 and June 30, when the OP finally decided to register for the course, the sponsor school had found another applicant they found ideal for the position.

To be specific, the OP received the following email:

Will-Excel TESOL to OP on July 1
------------------------------

Quote:

Sunshine has just informed me that they've chosen another applicant for their final November vacancy. As such, they will not be able to honor the original offer.

However, our offer for you to join the TESOL program under self-funded option #2 still stands.

Please let us know if you'd like to register under this option, and we'll forward you the appropiate details.

The OP responded with the following, quite insulting, email:

OP to Will-Excel TESOL on July 2
------------------------------

Quote:

Considering Sunshine (you) are the one who delayed so long, this confirms my suspicions about the quality and integrity of your company.

Given that your TESOL certificate is basically worthless, lacking the government certification that you claimed on your website, the self-funded option is only suitable for idiots, as you're basically the same price range as genuinely recognised certificates.

I've also read enough things about your business partner Dan to know the kind of person he is and the connections Sunshine has to realise that accepting a position at your school is equivalent to a voluntary prison sentence!

I'm now more than tired with your pathetic double-act with Dan, and your continual lies and evasions, so you can rest assured that I'm no longer interested in participating in your programme in any way, and will try my best to inform others of what I have learnt during this period.

Despite the negativity, we responded with the following, which ended our attempt to communicate with the OP:

Will-Excel TESOL to OP on July 2
------------------------------

Quote:

I'm sorry you feel that way about the course, particularly seeing how the claims you have made in your last response are untrue.

Regardless, you're certainly a very capable person, as has been made clearly evident over the last few weeks. You take great care in what you do in life and will certainly make good choices in the future.

I'm sorry things could not have worked out better, but I'm sure that you'll do well here in China, as well as wherever you end up in the future.

My best to you and (your wife (who accompanied the OP)) in your future endeavors.

The original post continues:

Quote:

In summary, I�m not trying to bad-mouth Will-Excel or Sunshine

We are not quite sure how else you would term disseminating such a plethora of fallacies.

Quote:

as I haven�t actually attended the course or worked at Sunshine

Which is quite unfortunate, as we were quite certain that he would have benefited greatly from our training. Hopefully his future endeavors will incorporate more positives than expressed above.

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Fradulent Job Advert is Running AGAIN

Author: unionjack
Subject: Fraudulent advertisements
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:57 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 1

Thanks for the heads up, Ted.

The offending advertisement was posted on the 3rd July and it was removed on the 4th July.

The FREE Jobs Board is checked every day and any fraudulent advertisements, of which we are aware, are removed.

UJ

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Newbie advice - would the Will-Excel option work?

Author: tzenkethi
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:58 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 9

Lol, I wondered how long it would take to get a reply from this post � and sure enough it was a LOT quicker than recent email replies!

First off, the offer wasn�t just with one of their partner schools, it was with the school both of the Will-Excel partners work for, as previously stated � Sunshine, so it�s interesting that they are referring to them in the 3rd person�

Also as I originally stated, I did attempt to start negotiations on salary (for the reasons also previously stated) as well as asking for the inclusion of the missing critical clauses in the contracts (again previously stated in detail), and was kept waiting for almost the entire duration stated for a very short answer (rather than me causing the delay, as suggested by Will-Excel). In fact I replied the very next day to finally accept their offer, and can provide evidence of the email trail to prove this.

Regarding the accreditation issue, anyone can confirm that the Heilongjiang Provincial Education Bureau has no connection with Will-Excel by phoning themselves � the telephone numbers are +8645182332055 or +8645153644475, or you get the numbers from their official web site (link kindly provided by Will-Excel!), but of course you need to speak Chinese � which is exactly why it�s so hard for any foreigner to verify this. Our contact in the Liaoning Provincial Education Bureau personally called the person in charge of accreditation in the Heilongjiang Provincial Education Bureau, who confirmed that they have never authorised any company in Harbin (or anywhere else in the province) to issue certificates to foreigners. The stamp information from Will-Excel confirms exactly what I originally posted, except they missed out the part about how this partnership doesn�t officially exist. During my visit I was told that the agreement/proof of partnership was kept in a filing cabinet at the other partner�s home. However upon returning home I received an email proving this to be a lie. I quote: �Dan, my business partner, has a meeting scheduled with our government partners this week. At that time he'll be discussing having an official license prepared. I wanted to send this to you now so that you could verify the stamp and Diploma. I'm afraid this will be the only document we can show you until the license is prepared, which could take several weeks.� So the only logical conclusion is that the stamp comes from an existing relationship, obtained through Sunshine.

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that Will-Excel have responded to my post by trying to discredit me � even though I had clearly explained the real course of events in detail in my original post. I have been entirely honest and included every detail in my post, something which Will-Excel have consistently failed to do.

Also note how they still refrained from actually answering any of the points I raised � this is a typical example of the evasion that I mentioned and if you wish to follow their advice to email directly, I�m sure you�ll find that evasion continues.

My final thought, I would advise anyone considering this programme to think about the way Will-Excel responded to my original queries, as well as this post, and consider how such an organisation may behave during the course and/or teaching term.

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Newbie advice - would the Will-Excel option work?

Author: WillExcelTESOL
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:11 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 9

The above poster was indeed offered a position with one of our sponsor schools in Harbin. The offer was made on June 18, 2009.

Upon receiving the offer, the above poster attempted to negotiate with the sponsor school for a higher salary. Between June 18 and July 1, when the poster finally decided to accept the original offer, the sponsor school had found themselves another teacher for the position.

By the poster�s own admission, he has not taken the course nor worked with one of our sponsor schools.

For first-hand accounts by teachers who have direct experience with both our program and sponsor schools, please visit our website, which provides links to our blog, video testimonials and photo album.

Regarding the poster�s mention of our accreditation, our certificates and diplomas are indeed accredited by the Heilongjiang Provincial Education Bureau via our partnership with the 哈尔滨市民办非学历协会 (Pinyin: Haerbin Shi Minban FeiXueli Xiehui).

A literal word-for-word translation of this in English is �Harbin City Resident Manage Non-University Degree Association�.

This association, as is evident in the name, is responsible for overseeing all non-university programs, including, but not limited to, English language and other language schools, Mandarin study programs designed specifically for foreigners, professional and vocational institutions, etc., throughout the province.

We are the only Chinese-government accredited TESOL program in China.

Prospective teachers with questions are welcome to contact us directly via email.

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Newbie advice - would the Will-Excel option work?

Author: Lexicon
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:09 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 9

In reality almost all courses -- including the official TESOL, CELTA, and Oxford Seminars programs are a total scam. They take your money and either sit you in a room with someone who blathers on for a few afternoons about something that's in (their own) book, or they simply tell you to read a booklet (which they sell you) or access a site (which you pay for) then they give you a certificate.

None of them are regulated and none of them will really help you in your job. Some schools want to see a certificate and others don't care. You can just about come out the same by making up a good one on your computer and printing it out as you can doing one of these "courses".

Save your money and try to get a job in your region based on your actual skills.

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Newbie advice - would the Will-Excel option work?

Author: tzenkethi
Subject: Personal experience with Will-Excel
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:36 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 9

I recently discovered the Will-Excel TESOL programme when searching the internet for possible courses to kick-start my ESL career in China. Having read a lot of horror stories I was understandably sceptical about a programme which sounded too good to be true, so after a fairly fruitless search for detailed feedback in the forums (a few first-hand positive experiences thin on detail, and a lot of baseless negative opinions), I emailed them to ask for more information. I was especially interested in the assessment criteria for the certificate, and the locations of their sponsor schools (only a provincial level, because I didn�t want to move too far away from my current home in Liaoning province).

The reply came back quickly (the next day) as did most replies, however there was no attempt to answer my questions, just an attached PDF version of their entire website, and links to their blog, photo albums and video testimonials, and a push to begin the application process. I was a little disappointed with this evasion, and therefore pushed for a face-to-face meeting and asked again about the location of their schools. He agreed to a meeting, but wanted me to apply for the programme first � which was fair enough, but he again evaded answering my question and simply tried to push me towards the self-funded option.

I really wanted to get some answers from them, so before sending in the application, I tried asking questions again, but this time numbering them to as to make each question accountable. This seemed to work better, in that he answered each question, but still in a very evasive way that after reading the answers I was none-the-wiser.

After pushing for more information again, I was sent an extract from their TESOL policy manual which provided a little more insight, but really only raised more questions. I decided to press on with the application so that I could meet them in person and finally get some answers to my questions.

The application process consists of filling out a very basic form, sending scans of your passport and qualifications, and then recording an MP3 of yourself answering some typical interview prompts (a great teacher is�, I�m good because�, etc.). This is a little lazy way of doing things, but I guess fairly efficient in screening applicants.

After completing this process, and indicating both on the form and in previous conversations that I was applying for the November programme, the reply came back suggesting they were considering me for the August programme! The replies all seemed to be copy and paste jobs (like the majority of the previous emails), and also seemed to be ignoring the reason for the application, which was my visit.

After correcting them, I got an offer to join the November programme under the self-funded option, because apparently ALL the sponsored positions had already been filled. A little hard to believe at this early stage�? The offer was pushing me to pay $500 within the next 48 hours, however they said I could defer the payment until after my visit, as long as I visited this week. Then complaining that they had wanted 1 week notice of my visit, (which had already been given!), and they were the ones saying I needed to visit at that time�?

Ok, I thought, let�s just go and find out what the real story is! As they had given me no time to confirm arrangements of the meeting, and as no telephone number is available for Will-Excel, I had to just send an email saying when I was coming and where I had assumed the meeting to take place, and gave my telephone number so that if there was a problem they could contact me!

Fortunately, all went as planned, and I met up with them at one of California Sunshine International Language Centre�s sites. It turns out that Will-Excel use Sunshine�s office space at two of their locations, and have no premises of their own � hence no telephone number. In reality, the Will-Excel partnership consists of a recruiter/teacher employed by Sunshine, and the co-founder/director of foreign affairs at Sunshine.

The information I got during this meeting is as follows:

There are no essays to complete during the course. Each input session is followed by a written multi-choice or single-sentence answer quiz the following day. There are 5 professional development projects, which are each assessed differently. The foreign language journal, teaching observation forms are very subjective, and therefore carry less weight than the materials, curriculum writing, and one-to-one projects. The only other written materials produced by the student during the course are lessons plans. The above constitute 40% of your final diploma grade, or 100% if you decide to only do the certificate and not the 6-month diploma (teaching term). The remaining 60% of the diploma grade is based on regular student and colleague feedback using a rating system coded in excel spreadsheets, which interprets question responses into a percentage score which is averaged across each age group of students taught. All grades use the American GPA system, and you are required to score at least 2.0 to pass the course. The current quoted pass rate of the course is 91%.

The teaching practice is all done individually (not in groups), and consists of 4 60-minute one-to-one sessions with an adult learner, and at least 3 120-minute sessions with children (normally) at Sunshine, accompanied by a teaching assistant, and an evaluator for the first hour of each class. Additional classes may be offered at Sunshine at the rate of 45RMB/hour! Also some opportunities may exist to teach classes at a local university.

Homework consists almost exclusively of lesson plans and grammar exercises.

Pier observation is not a planned part of the course, but the opportunity exists should free time allow.

Limited computer access is provided, although no wireless access is available. You may plug in your own laptop in place of any existing unused computer, but splitting of the signal is not permitted, either at home or at the office.

The self-funded work placement works by Will-Excel sending your resume out to an undisclosed number of schools around China with the hope of at least one offering you a position. They also suggest you try to find a job yourself and will provided assistance in writing resumes and cover letters etc.

The number of participants in each programme varies from 7 to 15, and everyone works individually with a single group. The accommodation is shared by up to 3 people (or couples) during the first month (training period), and becomes private during the working term.

There are no additional fees to pay during the course that relate to course, i.e. course books, stationery, photocopying, internet access are all included, however any social events that you decided to attend will of course be at your own expense.

If you decide to go self-funded, your certificate will be provided as soon as you pay all course fees � this is very flexible in payment terms. If you are sponsored, your diploma is given to you after you complete your 6-month teaching term.

Future employers currently have to email Will-Excel to ask if a certificate/diploma is authentic, although there is a future plan to allow automated online checking.

The Heilongjiang Provincial Education Bureau do NOT authorise anyone to issue certificates to foreigners. This was proven by first personally calling the bureau and asking several depts, none of which have heard of the company, and also with the kind help of high-ranking official in the Liaoning education bureau who confirmed that no company has this authorisation. Will-Excel do NOT have government accreditation for their certificates, and when asked to produce evidence they eventually admitted to not having any written agreement or authorisation from anyone, but could fabricate one given a couple of weeks. The current red Chinese stamp on the certificate is from a Harbin city-level association which authorises English training centres to give certificates to English students. Given that Sunshine is an English training centre, the origin of this stamp doesn�t seem too difficult to guess.

The typical training schedule consists of: input sessions from Tuesday to Friday, including 1 hour of Chinese lessons each day, observation and teaching practice during the evenings and at weekends, and an optional workshop each week for assisting with lesson plans.

During the course of the meeting it also became apparent that in fact the sponsored positions for November had not yet become available, because most of the schools weren�t considering that far in the future. I was told that closer to the time, a sponsored place may become available and I could convert to that option. Also a sponsored position suddenly became available at Sunshine, so I decided to see if they would give a formal offer. A positive reply came back to me that evening, and I arranged to return to their training centre the next day to review the contracts.

Upon reviewing the contracts I became immediately concerned at the 60-day notice period, number of teaching hours per week (22) compared with the very low salary (4000RMB per month=45/RMB per hour!) and that even that amount was difficult to achieve due to the enforced unpaid holidays and the fact that you need to pay all the utility bills yourself. Also having read personal blogs from current/previous employees, they confirmed the effective working hours to be more like 40 per week when considering lesson planning, travel between branches and other duties, with often very awkward hours and only 1 day off per week. Also if you check the recruitment page for Sunshine (on Will-Excel�s main website and many other ESL job listing pages), you�ll see a quoted salary of 5500-7000RMB per month with a $1000 end of contract bonus. Even when you take into consideration the training sponsorship (is this even real when Sunshine is your sponsor school?), the package is obviously taking advantage of new teachers.

The TESOL contract was worrying short, especially compared the self-funded version I had previously been sent. Specifically it had absolutely no information about the number of hours or content of the course offered, not even the categories (input session/teaching practice/etc), said nothing about providing accommodation, food and training materials, and shockingly didn�t even state that you would be awarded a certificate! Having asked for this to be included, and attempting for a second time to start negotiations regarding salary, they took over a week to reply, finally just stating that they would not negotiate at all, and that the missing information was available in policy documents which were only available after I had agreed and paid my deposit! I really don�t understand why they are afraid to include this basic information in the contracts, especially as all this is stated in their marketing material and is included in the self-funded contract. And to my knowledge, policy manuals can be changed at any time without consultation or legal implications, making them worthless contractually speaking.

Even baring all this mind, and against my better judgment, I agreed to proceed on the logic that I�m only risking $200 (compared to $1250 for most TESOL courses), provided that I had a copy of these policy manuals in my possession. They then replied saying that they�d decided to give the position to another applicant and wouldn�t honour the original offer, and that I would need to proceed using the self-funded option.

This effectively answered my concerns and finally convinced me to avoid the programme altogether and seek other options. Although from previous posters the training itself sounds positive, the lack of any endorsement of the actual certificate/diploma itself from anyone means that, if self-funded, you are effectively paying $1500 for an unvalidatable piece of paper that I could just as easily achieve from a pal back home! If sponsored from a school that offers better written conditions, or is even willing to communicate directly with you, is certainly worth considering as a last resort.

In summary, I�m not trying to bad-mouth Will-Excel or Sunshine, as I haven�t actually attended the course or worked at Sunshine, but simply to share my arduous experience in the attempt to find out more about this programme � something which most applicants don�t have the chance to do (because they�re not living in China) � and hope that this can be of help to future candidates for this programme.

ESL in China [Only]... :: Fradulent Job Advert is Running AGAIN

Author: TEFLjobsChina.com
Subject: Fradulent Job Advert is Running AGAIN
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:52 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 1

This website is back at it AGAIN - running the same fraudulent advert that I asked them to remove only a couple weeks back.

http://www.eslemployment.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/48051.html#

That is a COPY of my ad from Dave's ESL - but the email address is NOT mine. The links to a website are mine. SOMEONE is trying to collect your personal documents and data - most likely not with your best interests at heart.

Please join with me in asking the management of this website to BETTER MONITOR what is running on their jobs board.

Ted Tucker
www.TEFLjobsChina.com

Your ESL C.V.... :: Two EL teachers one Ukrainian one American can teach Russian

Author: jisaacs1207
Subject: Two EL teachers one Ukrainian one American can teach Russian
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:08 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hello,

We are two teachers with over four years experience looking to teach in China in September. She has two masters degrees in English, and even though she is Ukrainian holds a British accent as she has lived and studied abroad. I am an American holding a masters degree in teaching. She can teach Russian or Polish as well.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING :

Our requirements for the job are as follows :
(1) Round trip airfare. Not an allowance, a full reimbursement.
(2) We work together.
(3) 20 hours or less per week.

Recruiters, please assume we will take any job you have and ask if they will accept a Ukrainian teacher fluent in English with a British accent. I've answered too many emails only to hear,
"Sorry, they will not hire non-native."

My email is jisaacs1207@gmail.com .

ESL Academic Degrees... :: English Summer Camps

Author: Abagaile
Subject: English Summer Camps
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:39 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hi guys! I�m so amazed with what English summer camps can offer. I tried one in Canada and I never felt like a thousand miles away from home. The staff all the more add to the fun of the activities blending comfort, safety and great interaction all the way. It was awesome! I know I�ll never forget that extraordinary experience in my whole life!

Recommended ESL Technology... :: Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?

Author: CocoChanels
Subject: Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:32 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program!

ESL in China [Only]... :: RE: Teaching in Shenzhen, Baoan, need tips!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author: hahapauli
Subject: fenny...???...is not a school....
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:57 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 1

Hi sorry to say...fenny is not a school....fenny is a supposed agent/consultant.
...and well....there is alot of ''infame'' there...he's been around for quite a while...
...whether he and the company is actually a fraud...well it's anyone's guess..
...the thing is....you will not be offered a job...until you arrive at his office...AND
..pay him some money...then...I believe...he will deduct a certain amount from your salary each month...until...his retainer is covered...sound a bit like ''bonded labor''??? does to me..and ...well..it is quite a decent chunk from your pay...and well if you look around...you might find it easier and much cheaper...to go through someone else....you could consider deborah English..kindergarten in HK and Shenzhen....also for some jobs links and further advice try looking me up on my ''new'' site..info-esl.com
I've never delt with ''fenny''...otherwise known as perlandis group...as such....
THOUGH...we say the proof is in the pudding and twice over the years I've contacted his office to ASK...does he have a job...can he supply info' re' a job he's offering...and on both occasions..he's suggested come here to shenzhen...to my office.. .and further questions are met with a wall of ''silence''
AS I SAY.....there is absolutely no need to pay agents to find you a job..or pay to join forums...etc...
I lived in shenzhen for two years...and ...if you like...I could put you in touch with someone...who can find you a job....in Shenzhen

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: How to find a summer job

Author: priestess
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:44 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 2

There are plenty of summer jobs to be found:

I'm not a teacher so I wasn't looking for teacher jobs but I saw some. I hope you'll be able to find a job that suits you. Good luck!

New ESL Teachers... :: RE: EU passport holder from US, seeking advice...

Author: cappy59
Subject: Thanks!
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:03 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 3

uninojack and Lexicon, I very much appreciate your feedback.

It does sound as though I may have a slight advantage with my EU passport and American accent/education, You're correct, unionjack, I haven't any formal teaching experience, although I've trained dozens of people in computer systems and engineering fundamentals. Hopefully the patience and preparation I learned while training in the corporate world will come in handy when facing my first class!

I'm glad to know that I'm on the right track by taking a TEFL course, and Lexicon I appreciate your thoughts on European locations where I might find placement. In fact I am hoping to find a smaller city where I can get my first experience, and I would love to end up in Italy or Spain. I was thinking that Eastern Europe might be my only option without a degree, but I will take your advice to heart and apply outside of the metropolitan centers in Western Europe also.

Thanks again, kindly veterans...

New ESL Teachers... :: RE: EU passport holder from US, seeking advice...

Author: Lexicon
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:05 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 3

You should have no problem in Spain or smaller towns in Italy. Some in Italy and Germany will not like your age, but then again if you can get on with a company that does in house training then Germany would be an ideal place where they would value your telecom experience.

New ESL Teachers... :: RE: EU passport holder from US, seeking advice...

Author: unionjack
Subject: EU passport
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:17 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 3

Hello Cappy59. Welcome to the forum.

I would tell them what they want to hear.

You are mature, you have a TEFL Certificate, you have an EU passport and you are available now.

Having an EU passport means that they don't have to apply for a work permit for you and that will save them a lot of anxiety.

The beauty about the TEFL course is that it will give you the necessary information, to enable you to find your way around the classroom. I am assuming here, that you have no teaching experience. It is your classroom and you are in charge and therefore, you will need to know how to control your class.You will need to know how to prepare lesson plans. You will need to know how to get your point across and so on. Of course, over time, you will develop your own style of teaching but in the beginning, you will need to follow some system, until you learn what's best from your own experience.Therefore, the TEFL course needs to include these elements plus some teaching practice, with real students.

Best of luck

UJ

New ESL Teachers... :: EU passport holder from US, seeking advice...

Author: cappy59
Subject: EU passport holder from US, seeking advice...
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:17 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 3

Hi all, just found your forum and I've learned a great deal already!

My situation is a bit out of the norm; I'm Canadian born, raised and educated in the US, and hold both Canadian and EU passports (my parents were Brits). I never completed my college degree, but have been working for 25 years in the telecom industry (I'm 49, just took early retirement).

I'm enrolled in the Oxford TESOL/TESL certification course, will begin classroom work in August. My questions are; will my work experience mitigte the lack of college degree? When applying for positions (I'm looking primarily for Eastern Europe), should I list myself as an EU passport holder or as a Canadian passport holder? Is there any age discrimination in this field, subtle or otherwise? And lastly, is the Oxford Seminar course adequate for my situation? (the course is 60 hours classroom over a one month period.

TIA for any advice you may have to share!

ESL in the Central & South Americas... :: RE: Questions about obtaining a teaching position.

Author: Lexicon
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:11 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Sorry, but you're American which means you can't work in Spain.

Go for either Mexico or if you're in California, try teaching locally.

Getting the ESL Job... :: Heading to South Korea

Author: vincenoir
Subject: Heading to South Korea
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:57 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hi guys. I want to go and teach in South Korea. I am a UK passport holder and a graduate but do not have teaching experience or a TEFL certificate. I was wondering if anyone could recommend to me a good recruitment agency to use. Any help would be appreciated.

ESL in Africa & S.W. Asia [Middle East]... :: What is it like to teach in the UAE?

Author: kylepatrickbutler
Subject: What is it like to teach in the UAE?
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:32 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

My wife and I are currently teaching in Japan, but we are looking at teaching in the UAE in the near future. We are interested in hearing about the experiences of other expats who have taught in the UAE before we make our decision. We have a few questions:

1. What is the cost of living like? We know the pay is high, but what about daily expenses like food (eating out and cooking in), transportation, going out, etc? Is it possible to save money here?

2. What is it like living in a culture that is highly divided along gender lines? Does it effect how you operate on a daily basis? Do women have to cover themselves in public? Are you always expected to operate within their cultural norms or are they understanding of cultural differences? We are especially interested in hearing from the women on this one.

3. Dubai vs. Abu Dhabi. Which city is better? Which other locations in the UAE are cool?

4. What is the quality of life? Is it extremely boring or exciting? Can you afford to go out? Is alcohol illegal?

5. Does anybody know of any blogs written by teachers in the UAE?

6. Has anybody heard anything about ESL positions in Masdar, the UAE's new green city? We might be a little early for this one.

We really appreciate any advice you guys have. If anyone wants to know anything about ESL teaching in Japan, Cambodia, or NYC, we are more than happy to help you out.

ESL in the Central & South Americas... :: RE: Questions about obtaining a teaching position.

Author: MissSara
Subject: New
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:13 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Hello!!

I am new to the forum... new to TEFL... I just got my TEFL certificate from Oxford Seminars in California... I an constantly changing my mind on where to search for my first job....but have mainly narrowed it down to Brazil or Spain. One of my biggest disadvantages however, is my lack of the bachelor's. Is it difficult to find a good job without a degree? I am also pretty biased on working with only children. Is that too much to ask!!??

Say Anything... :: RE: Do you have a pension plan?

Author: Lexicon
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:48 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 6

Sorry but I find it comical to even think about this question. In over 10 years of ESL teaching I have never even worked for a company that paid a living wage or a wage remotely close to what natives in the region make. The idea that they would offer an additional pension when they don't offer enough to pay the rent on a decent place is a joke,

In much of Europe ESL teachers are required to pay into the pension and social insurance systems run by the government but there are laws preventing most teachers (unless they are EU citizens) from ever using any of these benefits.

ESL in the Baltic States, C. & E. Europe... :: CZ

Author: jgarrett396
Subject: CZ
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:09 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hello, my name is Jon and I have lived in the CZ for a couple of years. I am now planning to go back to teach English there. I am an American and I'm almost done with my TEFL courses here. I was considering going over in the next month or so, if possible, and was wondering what anyone's take on Prague is? Should I skip Prague altogether and go to Brno or Ostrava? I don't have anywhere to stay either, and not much money. Any suggestions?
Thanks

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: Scam warning - A school in Spain

Author: unionjack
Subject: bogus advertisement
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:56 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 19

Qmeher49

Thanks for that; it has been deleted

UJ

ESL in China [Only]... :: Teaching in Shenzhen, Baoan, need tips!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author: elj
Subject: Teaching in Shenzhen, Baoan, need tips!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:38 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 1

Hi everyone,
I am in contact with a school in Shenzen (China). They offered me a job in Baoan, in a Kindergarten and I would like to know if anybody has had some experiences with Peccl school (I am in contact with Fenny). Are they reliable?
I read some bad experiences in this forum so I would be sure before making a decision.
Thank you very much
Have a nice day
Elisa

ESL in C. Asia, Far East & Australia... :: Teaching in Asia without a degree

Author: janetnewenham
Subject: Teaching in Asia without a degree
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:50 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hello,
I have just done a TEFL course and finished my degree although I don't graduate until November. I would like to head away the end of August to SE Asia for a year teaching.

I have taught in South Africa for a year when I was 18, spent 2 months in Kenya and 2 summers working in language schools here in Ireland...

so does anyone know of any jobs or organisation in any SE Asian country where I could find a job without having my degree??

Cheers!

New ESL Teachers... :: Job without a degree??

Author: janetnewenham
Subject: Job without a degree??
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:47 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hello,
I have just done a TEFL course and finished my degree although I don't graduate until November. I would like to head away the end of August to SE Asia for a year teaching.

I have taught in South Africa for a year when I was 18, spent 2 months in Kenya and 2 summers working in language schools here in Ireland...

so does anyone know of any jobs or organisation in any SE Asian country where I could find a job without having my degree??

Cheers!

ESL in Western Europe :: Spain or Portugal (Huelva or Setubal)?!

Author: Ione888
Subject: Spain or Portugal (Huelva or Setubal)?!
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:36 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hello all,
I wonder if any of you experienced teachers can help me... I've been offered a job at ILS in Setubal, Portugal but also have an interview with International House, Huelva, and am most confused as to which to persue...
Both Spain and Portugal sound great, I speak Spanish but am very eager to learn a new language such as Portuguese. The offer in Portugal is decent pay for Europe and includes free accomodation but the school has no website and I haven't been told that much about it. IH seems great and I like the idea of being that far South in Europe but I would like to learn Potuguese.
I don't really know enough about either city - does any have any experience of working/living in either?
Any info you could give me would be amazing, thank you!! : )

Open ESL Expert Discussion... :: RE: EFL Resume, CV- What to put when done teaching.

Author: nitinnimbalkar
Subject: online resume builder service
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:06 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

http://www.resume-builder.net
http://www.interactiveresumebuilder.com
http://www.smartresumebuilder.com

New ESL Teachers... :: job offer...sorta

Author: canisden
Subject: job offer...sorta
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:39 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

I have an "offer' to teach ESL/EFL to young children. My teaching experience is in college and graduate schools. I have recently become TESOL certified. This would be my first teaching job outside the US. I'm concerned that this is some kind of scam. I have read the stories of broken contracts/promises, etc. I have two questions: First, would a reputable company offer me a job without an interview? And second, assuming this is legitimate, can anyone recommend some resources for teaching young children English?

ESL in C. Asia, Far East & Australia... :: Best places to go for a first teaching destination?

Author: Ram22
Subject: Best places to go for a first teaching destination?
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:35 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

I'm just about to start a TESOL course and will be needing to find work fairly soon. I'm drawn to Thailand as a first destination, but having never been before I'm not sure which part of the country to go to! Any suggestions or thoughts on other first destinations?

Ideally I'd like somewhere fairly coastal, with good access to a nearby town/city without being too urban. Does this sound realistic to find easily? Thailand seems to offer a good deal - great weather, cheap living costs, friendly people, and a strong community of English speakers. Or is this a naive view?

I'd appreciate any comments to these questions, thanks!

ESL Certification Issues... :: Question about certification: Have both MA and BA in English

Author: aranjaloca1
Subject: Question about certification: Have both MA and BA in English
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:50 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm new to the board and am interested in teaching English abroad, preferably in Central or South America. I hold both a B.A. ('02) and M.A. ('07) in English from Cal State Long Beach. I have experience teaching English as an ESL tutor and currently work as a substitute English teacher for ESL and special ed. classes. Am I still required to become TESL/TEFL certified, as I have a M.A.? If so, I'd like to take the courses online and have been told that a minimum of 120 hours is the standard. Any good certification programs recommended?

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: Scam warning - A school in Spain

Author: qmeher49
Subject: Re: Madrid advertisements
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:16 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 19

unionjack wrote:

CSABrown

Thanks for the heads up. We have deleted the Madrid advertisements and we are keeping a sharp lookout for others.

UJ

There is another scam going on in the name of the Dubai British school. I applied and at once received a contract & thought I was very lucky. The principal is supposed to be an Englishman but unfortunately writes incorrect English & that got me suspicious. Then he wrote & instructed me to apply to the Ministry of Labour in Dubai for a visa & labour card which of course costs $700; so I called their embassy in Berlin & learnt that EU citizens do not need a visa. I also called the British School in Dubai & they said it was a scam.
This ad for ESL teachers is still on your website.
Please remove it before other naive people fall for it.

Getting the ESL Job... :: Going to Taiwan

Author: vincenoir
Subject: Going to Taiwan
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:43 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Hi guys. I'm a newbie wanting to start teaching and have done some research over the internet. I was wondering if anyone had tips on looking for jobs or they have experience of Taiwan? I don't have a TEFL certificate but most experienced teachers say they are pointless and not required in Taiwan anyway, and most people say not to go through an agency but as someone wanting to start out I have no idea how to approach schools there. If you're in the same boat and looking to go to Taiwan get in touch or if you have any help or tips I would really appreciate it. Thanks guys for any help. Much appreciated.

Discrimination Issues in ESL... :: RE: Criminal record and Back ground check

Author: charliechaplin1984
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:34 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 8

I guess my point is, i also want my records to be clean, and from what i've read on this free background check info site, i thought my record would be wiped clean a couple of years from now, but now after reading this forum, i'm not sure anymore.. can anyone clear this up? dont criminal records "roll over" after a certain amount of time?

Discrimination Issues in ESL... :: RE: Criminal record and Back ground check

Author: charliechaplin1984
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:33 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 8

Hmm.. This is really confusing, I just read on this site that background checks won't show any convictions or criminal records done more than 7 to 10 years ago. I had a possession charge about 5 years ago, and it does still show on background checks i ran on myself. Despite this i still got hired for a job, i just basically told them the truth.. and they understood and hired me..

Say Anything... :: RE: Do you have a pension plan?

Author: Kenny
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:52 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 6

Just curious why you think Chinese people would not create economic bubbles nor walk away from investments that went bad. What pressure does Chinese culture have on the people that you do not find in the USA?
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Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: What option do I have?

Author: catherineluff
Subject: ESL teaching
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:58 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Hi,

Yes you can find a job if you're not an English speaking native! There are loads of positions around the world and all you need is a good TEFL qualification. Most courses require that you're a fluent English speaker so it sounds like that's fine for you, having a degree will help you out a lot as well.

If you want to look at TEFL courses, I'd recommend a company called i-to-i, you can do the courses online and they are really good qualifications, just google 'onlinetefl' or 'i-to-i'

Good luck!

ESL Academic Degrees... :: Teaching English in Italy

Author: mmartin
Subject: Teaching English in Italy
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:39 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

I have my associates degree but in general education, not language or teaching. I've been told and read on here that you can teach without a degree and my sister does that in Japan. I was hoping for a job near Milan, Italy, is it very hard to find a job around there? I found some things but it's TESOL I believe, where you can go over to Italy and take classes and afterwards they help you find a job, is that true and does ESL do that? And does that apply if you take the training over the internet, would they help you find a job then? And does ESL offer online classes and help to find you a job afterwards?
Thanks for your time and sorry about the TESOL questions.

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: What option do I have?

Author: buddy03
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:01 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

I'm indonesian, but currently living in australia. So you guys were saying that it is possible for me to get an ESL teaching job in Japan even though I'm not a native english speaker?

I'm considering a package placement deal with a big travel company (STA travel) at the moment, which includes a 100 hour TEFL course.

Here is the link: http://www.statravel.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/au_division_web_live/hs.xsl/teaching-positions.htm

Would this be the right direction to go?

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: What option do I have?

Author: katyb349
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:02 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

it might help to use a recruiter and ask them to sell your strong points for you. I used eslstarter myself.

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: North American ESL - your observations

Author: aardvark
Subject: new trend for Comm. colleges: temporary teachers
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:20 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Just as I suspected, schools like Mira Costa College and SCAD in Georgia are hiring teachers on a one-year basis. I used to think that tenure was your reward for doing a good job. Go to the college recruiting web sites like Chronicle.com or TESOL.org and you will find these schools recruiting for teachers year after year.

Then ask yourselves, "why didn't the teacher do well enough the first time around?" The answer is that there are so many teachers who are willing to work for less. If they keep the wages at entry-level for 10 years, do you know how much money they save?

I can't see any improvement in the U.S. in the next 10 years. I'm an ex-pat for good.

Getting the ESL Job... :: RE: What option do I have?

Author: ICAL_Pete
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:42 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Employers tend to favour degrees obtained from English speaking countries so your graduate studies in Australia are going to be a plus. What nationality are you, by the way?

Regardless, as a non native English speaker if you were on shortlist with a native English speaker who had very similar qualifications and background to yours then the post would be more likely to be given to the native English speaker. However, if the native English speaker was under qualified or had no experience you would stand a very good chance of getting the job despite not being a native English speaker.

The trick is to put your case forward in the best light possible. Contacting potential employers in person (skipe or video conferencing are an option if you are not on the spot) or sending them a video CV could be a good alternative to a paper CV where your nationality would stand out more, and could play against you. If they can hear you they can evaluate your English there and then and hopefully if you came cross well in the pre- interview they might overlook the fact that you are not a native English speaker and give you the opportunity to go to the next step in the interview process.

Check the ICALwiki article on how to make a video CV .
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Getting the ESL Job... :: What option do I have?

Author: buddy03
Subject: What option do I have?
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:14 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 4

Hi everyone. I'm not a native english speaker, but I have just finished university with honours in Australia after 4 years of study and the high school that I attended back home used Australian high school certification (though its not in Australia). I also scored band 8.5 on my IELTS exam, so I'm pretty confident with my command of the english language.

I'd really love to teach in either Japan or Korea, but after looking around for a while I found that most of them required native english speakers. I have to confess that my accent doesn't sound 'local' if you know what I mean, I think this could probably be a problem to potential employers.

Considering all that, Is there much chance for me to land an ESL teaching job? I'm also willing to get an ESL teaching qualification if it's necessary.

ESL in C. Asia, Far East & Australia... :: RE: ESL Teachers in Japan

Author: HelloDanSensei
Subject: ESL jobs in Japan
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:19 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 2

I agree with Stranger101 about Japan being the country with the highest salaries for ESL. I have only worked as an English teacher in Canada and Japan but colleagues who had worked in other countries before working in Japan have shared their experiences about work in other countries and in general they were so much better off once working in Japan. Teachers are respected more in Japan than in some other countries and working conditions are generally better. If you are lucky enough to hold a full time job teaching English at a school and also be able to teach some private students in your spare time it can be quite lucrative. I have heard some schools have been losing students due to the recent economy and have actually asked teachers to leave but when the economy does turn the demand for qualified English teachers will take another jump. If Tokyo gets the 2016 Olympics too you'll definitely want to be here in the years leading up to that. The city will want its employees to speak English to visitors and just like in Nagano for the '98 Winter Olympics there will be a spike in the number of teaching positions in the years leading up to the games. Fingers crossed for Tokyo 2016!

Dan J.
http://dan.hellosensei.org/
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Thanks all!

http://dan.hellosensei.org/

Getting the ESL Job... :: Advice about teaching in China

Author: chuckles
Subject: Advice about teaching in China
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:57 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 0

Just because you have a contract, does not mean it will be honored.
DO NOT FORGET WHERE YOU ARE!
Make lots of friends.
If anyone objects to your questions, do not work for them. Period.
Lawsuits take forever, if they are even heard.
Chinese people will negotiate/barter, and omit details, to get what they want.
DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR PASSPORT TO EMPLOYERS!
Do not say or do anything to make the chinese government, look bad.
If the students do not study, don't be afraid to fail them.

ESL in the Baltic States, C. & E. Europe... :: RE: Warning about school in Novosibirsk

Author: Renate
Subject: which are the kids?
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:07 pm (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 2

Actually, I think I have to add, that I myself appeared to have set off this reaction against me by leaders of the staff...though I cannot see it even yet.
It was all prompted by my two thousand word thesis for Easter, I had written:

We Continentals see children as THINKING young people who need set goalposts and constant guidance...whereas in Britain I found that very often children were treated merely as NAUGHTY ADULTS who cannot think.

For this observation, I was shouted at like a kid in front of my fellow PGCE students .. yet several of my colleagues had not done their thesis ''HOMEWORK'' set them over the holiday, giving the most incredibly weak excuses and not a word was said to them..which left me wondering at the state of things..and whether I really wanted to expend time and energy to such a system. Time is short for mature students! well, I did sing that famous song in the staff room when the Inspectors called: we don't need no education---and I do have a strong voice which carries; taught me at my Church school choir.
Incidentally, my daugher is a school Principal!

ESL in the Baltic States, C. & E. Europe... :: RE: Warning about school in Novosibirsk

Author: Renate
Subject: Sign it?
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:45 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 2

This post has been moderated UJ

You don't need to go to Novosibirsk for this kind of treatment. I was doing a PGCE at (School name removed) in East London. We had to write a report for the Head about how things were going: I wrote I was enjoying it, but as my teacher-tutor was absent a great deal of the time, I was having to use my own years of experience teaching for language schools in my classrooms.
The Head of Languages and the Head of Year, marched me into a store cupboard scowling, - you are not sending this to the Head..AND DICTATED WHAT AND AS THEY WANTED ME TO WRITE MY REPORT.
I left the school immediately afterwards at Easter before the end of the Course and later went to work at a nearby College. I have never regretted it. I find College Managers less one sided and more concerned about making the College work as a whole!
Incidentally, at that school one boy threw a bottle of ink at me and I had a whole load of other nasty experiences, besides the usual good ones from the experience of teaching..I will admit I was teaching German and Russian. Some of the other teachers laughed as the kids banged their desks upon my entry--we won the war!
What ever for, she isn't even a German! I find that because I had to learn English as a child when I arrived on these shores, I have more empathy with English learners anyway, as I remember some of the wonderful tricks used by my very ancient spinster teachers of my Church schools back then!
I have a whole store of nasties I could bring up from over my years of teaching and oddly none of them from Colleges, but that one really shook me! I wonder if they would have locked me in had I refused to write what they instructed!

Discrimination Issues in ESL... :: RE: Age discrimination in hiring?

Author: Renate
Subject: Age and -ism
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:56 am (GMT 1)
Topic Replies: 19

The law in China actually stipulates that no foreign teachers should be over sixty. ..and remember in China, you should get to know the law as most things run by it. I understood many things once I familiarised myself with their law. The reasons are simple, older teachers are more likely to become ill, therefore a drain on scarce resources and also, the retirement age in China is supposed to be 55 years of age.
With a massive population of one and a third billion to service, the government has to look at all the cons first..which includes the wisdom of bringing in WORKERS from the outside which might not be totally necessary or good for their society in other ways though obviously it gives them a wider view of the world about them.
However the need for good NATIVE speaking teachers is perceived as so great that shortages in that field prevail and often necessitate the hiring of older teachers, for which I am eternally grateful as I myself am sixty
four and have only been working in China for the last seven years..though it is not always easy to get employment at this age.
I have found from experience that one or two older teachers on campus keeps a calm top on sometimes over spirited young people who see it much as a holiday or sort of outing and also we bring experience with us which the younger group often just don't have and oddly, WE DON'T COMPLAIN AS MUCH or argue over every little matter, as our essentials were not
much different for us when we were young, as we did not start from the luxury
we now give to our youngsters.

I am even considering going voluntarily when older, as in that instance, age is not an issue. The Chinese admit that the aged voluntary groups do excellent work -
amusingly, one of the chinese admin-men at my first place was at least 73yrs old back then and is still going strong many years later. A shake- the- earth- come- back- after- some- years- in- America new Dean shoved him out so he promptly found himself another situation!
A dear and good friend of mine and man after my own heart!