ExChristian.Net -- encouraging ex-Christians

Open-mindedness, anecdotes and lies! Oh, my!

2009-11-12T08:52:00Z

Image by Dr Case via Flickr

Recently I had a discussion with my Evangelical father-in-law, which went surprisingly well (for a religious debate). It started with an argument between my mother-in-law and my wife and then somehow the conversation got hijacked by us (the men). I know I have to work on that one, seriously. I got involved when my mother-in-law accused my wife of being closed minded for not accepting her beliefs in Creation. Her exact words were, “I wish you could just be more open-minded!” My father-in-laws take wasn’t that we are “closed-minded”, but rather we are “less open-minded” than they are. I obviously disagreed. Here is a summary of some of the points I covered in this conversation. I will be leaving out a lot of the conversation out and focus on a few of the points that I was pleasantly surprised to have been able to make.

My father-in-law believes the Bible to be the infallible word of God. He believes it contains no errors and takes it literally. Since he suggested that we are less open-minded, I asked him if he has committed to believing the Bible to be completely true and accurate. He said, “Yes.” I asked him if he understands everything that is written in the Bible. He said, “No.” I asked him if any external evidence or ideas can convince him otherwise. He said, “No.” He is firmly committed to believing the Bible at all costs. I explained to him that my understanding of what it means to be open-minded is to be willing to modify your stance or opinion on a topic as more information is introduced, even if it involves completely abandoning the previous understanding when it has been proven to be false. He agreed that that was a good definition of open-mindedness. I explained that I cannot see how someone who has admittedly confined the scope of his mind to the parameters of the Bible can consider himself open-minded. I was really surprised to have been able to have the floor to complete that point. Praise be to Zeus!

My father-in-law tends to rely heavily on anecdotes to help encourage people’s faith, and in this case with me, as evidence for his beliefs. He expressed to me that it can be hurtful when he shares a very personal story about how he feels God supernaturally intervened in his life and I try to rationalize it by thinking of the possible natural explanations for these stories as an alternative. If I recall correctly, I believe he used the words, “it rains on my parade.” He gave me two stories this time. One about a hockey player who always had one leg considerably shorter than the other who was healed and another about a lady in his church who had Lupus (a disease for which there is no known cure) and was healed. In each story the doctors were “astounded” and proclaimed it a miracle.

For each of these stories I thought up some possible natural explanations. It bothered him that I would default to speculating about natural explanations rather than take his word that it was supernatural. I said that if the natural possibilities I put forward are plausible, then why should I default to accepting it was supernatural? Praise be to Poseidon for giving me the floor to make that point.

I also took this opportunity to boldly challenge him on his honesty. I asked him if he had fact checked these stories before sharing them. He told me he didn’t feel it was necessary, because he trusted the sources. I pointed out that he was then spreading these stories without being reasonably certain that they were true as they were told. I shared an anecdote of my own to make a point. I have a friend who has crones (a disease for which there is no cure). Many years ago, she went to a “healing service” at a church and someone prayed for her to be healed of her crones. She believed she was. She testified how the doctors couldn’t find a trace of the disease in her and that it was gone. As a Christian in those days, I was impressed. I shared with my family and friends. This story began to spread among the faithful. As the story continued to spread, she became ill again and discovered that the crones was still very present. She was not healed. The story had spread to the point where it was impossible to correct the information for everybody that heard it. For all I know, the story continues to spread to this day.

I also took this opportunity to boldly challenge him on his honesty. I asked him if he had fact checked these stories before sharing them. He told me he didn’t feel it was necessary, because he trusted the sources. I pointed out that he was then spreading these stories without being reasonably certain that they were true as they were told. I shared an anecdote of my own to make a point. I have a friend who has crones (a disease for which there is no cure). Many years ago, she went to a “healing service” at a church and someone prayed for her to be healed of her crones. She believed she was. She testified how the doctors couldn’t find a trace of the disease in her and that it was gone. As a Christian in those days, I was impressed. I shared with my family and friends. This story began to spread among the faithful. As the story continued to spread, she became ill again and discovered that the crones was still very present. She was not healed. The story had spread to the point where it was impossible to correct the information for everybody that heard it. For all I know, the story continues to spread to this day.

These points were made during a very lengthy conversation with lots of interruptions on both parts and a lot more information from both sides that were shared. It didn’t go as smoothly as it appears above, but my point in posting is to praise Jah Rastafari for the little openings he provided to slip in the above points, that I consider valuable, to an otherwise chaotic conversation.

Aurora pastor suspect in child sex assault

2009-11-11T20:00:00Z

AURORA, Colo. - The pastor of an Aurora church was behind bars Tuesday evening, charged with sexual assault on a child by a person in a position of trust.

The Rev. Isaac Aryee was arrested on Oct. 26th at his church, Praise Chapel International Ministries, on E. Mississippi Ave.

The case has been referred to the Denver District Attorney's Office which says the case file is currently under seal. However, a D.A.'s office spokesperson confirms that the victim in the case in a 15-year-old girl whom Aryee met through the church.

Prosecutors believe it was an ongoing sexual affair.

Rev. Aryee and his wife moved to Colorado from Ghana in West Africa in 2002, according to the church's official Web site.

A background check shows Aryee was also arrested by Denver Police in 2002 for soliciting a prostitute.

LINK | LINK

Like Alcohol, Religion Disinhibits Violence, Doesn't Cause It

2009-11-11T11:15:00Z

by Valerie Tarico

Last week a Muslim US army psychiatrist, Nidal Malik Hasan, shot and killed 13 of his fellow soldiers on the Fort Hood military base, injuring another 29. In response to the Fort Hood shootings, some people are blaming Islam. Others are saying Islam had nothing to do with it, that the problem is our war of aggression or failure to care for psychologically wounded soldiers. I believe both are wrong.

The relationship of religion to violence is complicated. With the possible exception of Buddhism, the world’s most powerful religions give wildly contradictory messages about violence. The Christian Bible is full of exhortations to kindness, compassion, humility, mercy and justice. It is also full of exhortations to stoning, burning, slavery and slaughter. The same can be said of the Koran. The same can be said of the Torah. Believers who claim that Islam or Christianity or Judaism is a religion of peace are speaking a half truth—and a naive falsehood.

The human inclination toward peacemaking or violence exists on a continuum. Happy, healthy people who are inherently inclined toward peacemaking focus on sacred texts and spiritual practices that encourage peace. Those who are bitter, angry, fearful or prone to self-righteousness are attracted to texts that sanction violence and teachers who encourage the same. People along the middle of this continuum can be drawn in either direction by charismatic religious leaders who selectively focus on one or the other.

The world’s most powerful religions give wildly contradictory messages about violenceEach person’s individual violence risk is shaped by a host of factors: genetics, early learning, health, culture, social networks, life circumstances, and acute triggers. To blame any act of violence on religion is as silly as blaming an act of violence on guns or alcohol. But to deny that religion plays a role is as silly as denying that alcohol and guns play a role. It is to pretend that religions are inert, that our deepest values and beliefs about reality and morality have no impact on our behavior.

From a psychological standpoint, religions often put a god’s name on impulses that have subconscious, pre-verbal roots. They elicit peak experiences like mystic euphoria, dominance, submission, love and joy. They claim credit for the moral emotions (e.g. shame, guilt, disgust and empathy) that incline us toward fair play and altruism, and they direct these emotions toward specific persons or activities. In a similar way, religions elicit and channel protective reactions like anger and fear, the emotions most likely to underlie violence.

What is the role of religion in a tragedy like the Fort Hood shootings? The answer isn’t simple. From the swirl of conjecture and hype is emerging the image of a man who was lonely, who couldn’t quite seem to win at love, and who was profoundly troubled by the horror stories brought home by his soldier clients. Do therapists experience vicarious trauma? Absolutely. Does this trauma put their own mental health at risk? Absolutely. Many of them deal with this risk by seeking professional consultation, asking for support from loving family and friends, and limiting the number of post-traumatic clients that they see. It appears that Hasan made at least tentative attempts in several of these directions. But primarily he turned to forms of Islam that only deepened his sense of alienation and anger. In what must have been an anguishing conflict of loyalties, piety helped him to resolve the conflict in favor of co-religionists over compatriots. Ultimately, rage won out—righteous, sanctified rage—which came to matter more than any value he as a healer placed on his own life or the lives of his colleagues and clients.

I would argue that, like alcohol, religion disinhibits aggression rather than causing it, and that it does so only when other factors have created conditions favorable toward violence. (I might also argue that under better circumstances religion disinhibits generosity and compassion.) As many have pointed out, thousands of Muslim servicemen in the U.S. military shot no-one last week, nor will they unless they find themselves assigned to combat. Similarly, millions of people consume alcohol without insulting, hitting, kicking, stabbing or shooting anyone. Most of us are peaceful drinkers and peaceful believers. Yet, statistically we know that without alcohol assaults would be less common. So too, we all know that when suicide bombings happen, Islam is likely to be involved. And, I would add, when we hear that an obstetrics doctor has been shot or a gay teen beaten and left to die, or a U.S. president has announced a “crusade,” we know that Christianity was likely a part of the mix.

In general, as the gospel writer said, it is far easier to see the mote in our brother’s eye than the log in our own. American culture is bathed in Christianity, and even for most secular Americans, is easy to see Islam’s role in violence while missing the times when Christianity plays the same role. But the rest of the world doesn’t see us through our own rose colored glasses, and under a bare light bulb, American Christianity retains shadows of the inquisitor’s hood and implements of torture.

In recent years, the European and Australian press repeatedly have called attention to horrors being perpetrated in Africa thanks to American missionary dollars, a story that has been slow to get mainstream American press coverage. As Evangelical and Pentecostal Christianity spread across Nigeria and Congo, thousands of children are being beaten or burned or disfigured with acid after being condemned by Christian ministers as “witches.” After all, the American missionaries teach that the Bible is the literally perfect word of God, and the Bible says, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” (Exodus 22:18). When children are condemned by pastors and priests, exposed in the name of Jesus by the Holy Spirit himself, parents abandon them and their villages drive them out. The lucky ones find refuge in shelters. (For photos click here.)

Meanwhile in Uganda, American Evangelicals have helped to advance prison terms and death penalties for African gays. The Family, an American Christian organization with members in congress helped to convert Uganda’s president to their form of politicized Christianity. American activists attended a conference last March aimed at “wiping out” homosexuality. By this fall, a bill had been introduced that would allow the death penalty for gays with AIDS and institute jail time for parents who fail to turn in their homosexual teens. Horrors such as these don’t seem to have abated the flow of salvific dollars, Bibles, and earnest missionaries eager for converts any more than suicide bombings have dried up support for madrassas.

Was the Fort Hood murder spree caused by Islam? Are the African murder sprees caused by Christianity? A yes answer is far too simple. But the fact is that religion in America and around the world continues to disinhibit lethal violence. For us to vilify Muslims or Christians or any group of believers collectively is to engage in the familiar act of cowardice we call scapegoating. It means, ever and always, that we end up sacrificing innocents to appease our own fear, anger and thirst for vengeance. But for us to ignore the complicated role of religion in violence is a different kind of cowardice, one that has been indulged by peace-lovers among the faithful for far too long.

Pastor charged with stealing $50,000 from Habitat for Humanity

2009-11-10T18:16:00Z

State police have accused Pastor David L. Heckman Jr. of embezzling more than $50,000 from a Christian organization that helps build homes for the poor.

Heckman took more than $50,000 in cash mortgage payments from homeowners who reside in homes built by Tioga County Habitat for Humanity, police said. He was a member of the board of directors and treasurer of the Tioga County chapter of the nonprofit.

Pastor of First Congregational United Church of Christ in Newark Valley until his arrest Sunday, Heckman is also charged with making unauthorized purchases in excess of $1,500 that were charged to the church.

Charges include one count of second-degree grand larceny and one count of fourth-degree grand larceny, both felonies.

"Heckman is currently on leave of absence from the church and has been replaced as treasurer for Habitat for Humanity," police said.

New York State Police at Owego arrested Heckman, 27, who lives on Court Street in Binghamton. The Tioga County District Attorney's Office, Tioga County Habitat for Humanity and Heckman's church assisted in the investigation.

Following his arrest, Heckman was arraigned in Town of Owego Court and sent to the Tioga County Jail in lieu of $50,000 cash or $100,000 property bond. Late Thursday, he had yet to post bail.

The investigation into Heckman's activities is ongoing, police said. Anyone with additional information is asked to contact state police at (607) 687-3961.

STORY LINK

Related stories: Habitat for Humanity chapter struggles after pastor's alleged theft

A devil's union

2009-11-10T18:48:00Z

by The Thylacine

Exploit or abuse your family, and end up with a fistful of air; common sense tells you it's a stupid way to live. (Proverbs 11:29, The Message)

Had a fabulous weekend a couple of weeks ago. I thought I was going to the Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix and catching up with some very old friends -- it was great but that was only a very small part of it all. It turned out that the reason behind the pressure to attend was that a couple I first met while living in a university college (1973, they insisted... a bloody long time ago anyways) was finally tying the knot and getting married. The outdoor ceremony was hilariously entertaining with, among other things the bride being given away by her eight-year-old grandson.

As there were no parents still with us to give the traditional speeches, both the bride and groom filled in. Both are professors in their 60's; their public speaking skills are well honed. With good humor the Bride answered the question we had all been asking..."Why did you wait so long?" It turned out that she was the daughter of a Methodist Minister who had absolutely refused to have anything to do with the man she "had sinned with". While she had been welcome in her parents house, her partner and children were not. In fact she was expressly forbidden to even speak of them -- something which caused great consternation when she went into labor on a visit and, as she put it, "The old bastard with the back-to-front-collar was bellowing to her mother not to ring the groom as they were getting into the car to go to the hospital". The manner of the telling made it seem very funny, but imagine the anguish it caused at the time.

She continued her speech saying that some people have different kinds of luck in their lives: some become wealthy, some famous, some get to do exactly what thy dream of. Her lucky break had been in the form of meeting her partner, from the time she invented a lame excuse to get him into her college room and clumsily seduced him, she couldn't remember a moment when she didn't feel married to him. Now, four children, five grandchildren, three mortgages, ovarian cancer, three years of surgery sessions to fix a badly broken leg (His) it was very easy for her to say "I do" because unlike 99% of brides there was no risk in her choice, She knew she had made the best. After all of that the "old bugger with the back-to-front collar"still refused to recognise their marriage and there was no way she would ever have a ceremony while he was around to witness it. That was why it took so long.

The marriage celebrant was forbidden to mention any deity in the ceremony. The Groom said that he regretted not being allowed to participate as a family but asked,"Who were the real losers? Our kids have all surpassed us and the old religious fool missed a golden opportunity to influence them with his god stuff when they were younger and impressionable. For all his judgmental ranting he ended up an impotent hypocrite". The eldest granddaughter went to her never met grandfather's burial and caused a stir by introducing herself, with the simple act of giving her mother a hug and calling her "Mum"... only after she had chatted very amicably with her cousins. This forbidden "child of a devil's union" has recently graduated as a specialist Physician. Apparently there were many murmurings that with the old padre out of the way, the family could get back together, but the happy couple are yet to receive an invitation and aren't about to hold their breath until they get one.

Peter and Robyn have been together for 40 years. Like all of us it has not been an easy journey and at times they have had to work very, very hard. How wastefully sad that this truly excellent example of a marriage had to be blighted by religious blindness and bigotry.

Here's to the Bride and Groom. As always, I wish them well.

Christians exploited my mental illness to indoctrinate me

2009-11-09T11:43:00Z

Sent in by Kylee

My conversion into Christianity was not based on a rational decision, I am diagnosed with schizo-affective disorder which is a mental illness combining schizophrenia type symptoms with bipolar mood disorder.

At the time of my conversion I was not diagnosed and unaware I had a mental illness; I was psychotic and suffering delusions.

These delusions consisted of a belief that I was communicating with god. I did not embrace Christianity but had my own interpretation of gods nature. My best friend at the time was a Christian and she persuaded me to go to church where they persuaded me to read the bible. I was clinically insane and it is in my opinion a state where people should be protected from evangelists and religious indoctrination. However my episode continued for almost a year before I was diagnosed. The prolonged state of insanity has resulted in damage to my lifelong prognosis.

The only people I confided in about my delusions (which I believed to be true) where my best friend and her pastor. I told my best friend about the divine messages I was receiving and she encouraged these delusions. Once I told her that god had commanded me to leave my family and become a nun she encouraged this delusion suggesting places I should go. When I questioned why god would ask me to do this she told me it had to do with faith. When I spoke to her pastor I told him my strange 'prophetic' dreams and revelations. These had a strong implication that I thought I was Jesus Christ. I also told him that god had told me I have cancer and would die in three years. The reason I point this out is so you can see the obvious nature of my illness and understand why I am angry that the Christians I confided in did not act accordingly.

I requested to be baptized though stipulated that god wanted me to be baptized naked. This pastor did not refer me to medical attention, but instead, knowing full well I was mentally ill, which I am certain he did, accommodated my request for naked baptism.

These christians are culpable for my dismal prognosis as they not only failed to direct me to medical attention; they exploited my illness and indoctrinated me.

I remained a Christian after I had been treated because I had been indoctrinated while I was sick. I learned in church about gods judgment against the non believing and their destination of hell. a couple of years went by and then I got psychotic again. (I mention my delusions in detail because I want you to see how my indoctrination interacted with my illness creating a far worse scenario then just experiencing illness)

I was hospitalized but believed I had died and gone to hell. The fear was excruciating, and I never would have had such a fearful delusion if religious propaganda had not been pushed upon me.

I waited in 'hell' for three days each moment I was convinced that the eternal torture was imminent and unavoidable. This is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to me and for years I suffered nightmares of being in hell.

One day I was listening to my local Christian radio station and the spokesperson was teaching on a passage from the bible about hitting your children with rods. He instructed listeners to hit their children when they were disobedient but not to use your hand as then the child would associate the pain with the parent he said to use an implement.

At this stage, due to my mental illness, I had lost complete confidence in my ability to make rational decisions and trusted in Christian guidance over my own judgment so I began hitting my children with a wooden spoon.

Since my initial episode I had not been in a relationship and was very lonely and not coping well living alone with a mental illness. All my Christian friends told me I had to be in a relationship with a fellow Christian and remain sexually pure until married, needless to say these requirements limited my chances of having a boyfriend greatly. Like I said I was not coping I was severely depressed for four years so much that I had to hand custody of my children over to their father. I was even driven to suicide attempt.

I did eventually meet someone I liked very much but he was an atheist. I decided to be disobedient to the bible and begin dating this man. I went to church one evening and the pastor prayed over me. I had not told him about my relationship but he said to me that god was telling him I am in a wrong relationship and need to change it.

At the time I concluded that this must be a divine message as I had not told him about it. I have since realized he must have heard it from a member of the congregation and then used that opportunity to force me to do what he himself thought was right. Believing this was a divine message I broke up with my boyfriend and shortly after became suicidal. I spoke to the pastor in question about this and he said I should break up with my boyfriend but to do it slowly.

At another point in my Christian experience I was raped, not by a fellow Christian though the reason I share this is that my indoctrination commanded me to forgive all who apologise as the bible says.

This man did apologise though told me that I should apologise also to him for my part in this. (WTF!?! "I'm sorry I allowed you to victimise me.") As a Christian I was compelled to forgive him and this was a very degrading experience there was absolutely nothing good or right about it.

My deconversion took a while but I really made progress once I spoke to my counselor about wanting to be in a relationship with my former boyfriend but being taught it was a sin. My counselor was a Christian but not fundamentalist and she told me her view that the bible was written by man and suggested that I caused no harm to anyone by having a loving relationship. In fact, quite the opposite was true and it was of mutual benefit to me and my former boyfriend.

I began to see the harm I was doing by breaking up with my boyfriend which was indeed more damaging then having a relationship. This lead me to decide maybe the bible wasn't completely inspired though I remained a Christian for a time while I critically evaluated the bible, now I had given myself permission to.

It did not take too long to dismiss the bible with encouragement from my boyfriend who was a source of information regarding the questionable history of the bible and I also allowed myself to accept contradictions and downright malicious judgments of god for what they truly were instead of trying to reason them away.

With the bible given as much merit as it deserved by me the logical process that lead to me becoming atheist went something like this...

It was evident that those individuals who sincerely desired to know and follow god were not rewarded with a clear, consistent, universal truth.

Therefore the assumption that god exists seems unlikely, especially if this god requires us to believe in him and follow his teachings. Also if there were a god who did not care what we believed yet was compassionate he would undoubtedly reveal himself to end confusion, wars, condemnation, and fear of eternal damnation.

This compels me personally to disregard any notion of god

My Agnostic Limbo

2009-11-08T14:16:00Z

by Parasol

I was raised into a Catholic family and went to a Catholic primary school, and for the most part I experienced a comfort and connection with God during Mass and in private prayer. While the feeling of connection to God was true, if I sound like a model Catholic, rest assured my teens were peppered with misdeeds and their consequent guilty ruminations. I fell pregnant at 18, unmarried and seemingly in direct defiance to my father's pleas - albeit drunken ones as he passed by my open bedroom door - to 'not do it,' because having sex or getting pregnant would "wreck my life." But the connection -- the feeling of peace with God -- was there nonetheless.

I pretty much stopped going to church as I entered motherhood, but I was ever conscious of my failings toward God and the church. You see, although I don't remember the idea of divine punishment being drummed into me as a child, my private readings of the Revelation during my mid-teens had filled me with fear. To this day I don't understand how anyone who is aware of their 'failings' could find solace in reading any of the horrors contained within that book! Despite this (and perhaps, in part, because of it), I still prayed privately, asking for help to be more like Jesus and for all the usual things I assume people wish for in prayer.

I guess I was ripe for the picking when in my early twenties I allowed the Jehovah's Witnesses into my home for a few months. Through talking with them I came to realise how little I knew of the Bible - and in truth, I do believe that during my childhood I was shown mainly its most sanitised passages (thank goodness!). Of course there were many aspects of the Jehovah's faith that I could not logically reconcile, but I admit that I was comforted when I learned they believed a compassionate God would not doom the failures to Hell! But the very exposure to the near-impossible demands of Christ's teachings shattered me. So much of what I had believed and felt was blown away almost in an instant, and I felt so very, very wrong, and so very incapable of meeting any of Jesus' requirements, except the ones that came naturally to me. I couldn't pray anymore - I felt not even worthy of that. I could not 'talk' to my loved ones who had passed, because I now knew that they were but dust and bones waiting for the second coming. I questioned my participation in traditions I had known all my life (Christmas, birthdays), and because I still did these things, it was all the more reason to feel unworthy! I was racked with fear and guilt, so much so that it was almost the only thing on my mind. It came to the point where I couldn't mentally handle it, and so I asked the Jehovah's to stop coming. They did so, reluctantly, and I tried to resume something of my prior life. But the fear remained. I became angry at religion and God, and at the seeming hopelessness of it all (and of life - for I was also becoming more aware each day of the atrocities within this world). So for the last few years I have been in this hybrid state of anger and fear, and it has led me to search, very tentatively at first, for justification of my feelings. In essence, I have given up on religion and put into the 'too hard' basket in the hope that I will find peace and be released from these horrid feelings. Knowing that this is essentially a knee-jerk reaction to religion's stranglehold over my moral character gives me more reason to doubt myself. Consequently there is the terrifying thought that perhaps this is all part of a 'divine' plan to make me realise the truth that others willingly and selflessly see and accept. If this is indeed the case, then I can easily predict the mental anguish that is to come. I am, quite frankly, a mess!

During my recent feast on atheistic works I have discovered many convincing reasons to doubt the divinity of the Bible. In addition, and perhaps more importantly, much of it is so repulsive to my own moral code that to obey it would be a great disrespect to my own humanity. But the counter arguments remain: What if the Bible is right, despite its inconsistencies? What if the atheist researchers have missed key things? What if, as the apologists would say, it is man's free will - and not the Bible itself - that has brought about the atrocities committed in the name of religion throughout time, and the message is still essentially good (if not all good, then true)?

In closing, I am at the stage where my 'logical' self can see that it is perhaps my longing for the comfort and peace I felt with religion while growing up that makes me doubt my intellect now. Perhaps I enjoyed the emotional release of praying to someone who I thought would respect my own natural compassion, sadness and confusion at this thing called life. I can see, too, how utterly pathetic it would be for me to turn back to religion because of fear. All I know is that I want to do good for goodness' sake.

I hope this has made some sense, and that I might invite a little 'enlightenment' from you all. I also wonder if any of you have gone through something similar.

*Note to readers: This was originally published as a response to another member's testimonial.

Deprogramming

2009-11-07T17:19:00Z

by Eric J

Image by TheBazile via Flickr

One young man's journey from Evangelical Christianity to Non-theism

Part I
Growing up

I remember going to church every Wednesday and twice on Sundays. Sunday mornings included Sunday school and children's church, the adult service once I was old enough.

I remember being taught that the Earth was made in six days because the Bible said so. Soon there after God flooded the Earth because the people became evil and only 1 family was spared. I remember learning that David was the only boy to stand up to Goliath. He did so because was filled with righteous indignation over the fact that Goliath challenged David's God. I learned that a man named Jonah spent 3 days in the belly of a whale because he disobeyed God. I learned that Job's wife was turned into a pillar of salt because she too disobeyed God.

At the age of eight years old, my father's mother died of cancer. I remember the family praying a lot. I remember my father not being able to understand why his mother had died in spite of their prayers. I remember hearing him say that it was because someone in the room didn't have as much faith as the rest of the family, and because of this his mother wasn't healed.

Around the age of 11 or so, I remember learning the Fundamental Tenets of the Assembly of God denomination. For those unfamiliar with them, they are as follows:

WE BELIEVE... The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind.

WE BELIEVE... There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).

WE BELIEVE... In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

WE BELIEVE... though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin–ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.

WE BELIEVE... Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (trusting Christ, through faith and repentance, to be our personal Savior). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

WE BELIEVE... and practice two ordinances—(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.

WE BELIEVE... the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.

WE BELIEVE... Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike.

WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ.

WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers–the Church.

WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope—When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with
His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for
1,000 years. This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel
and the establishment of universal peace.

WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire.

WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth
that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We
will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on
Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!

Again, sometime around the age of 11 I remember going ice fishing with my father. He tried to explain sex to me. All I can recall of the discussion is that he preferred to use the term "making love" instead of the word sex. We never spoke about it in a positive light again.

At some point in middle school I remember a friend showing me pornography for the first time. I remember it being thrilling, secret, and attractive thing.

I remember at sometime in the 9th grade I became dissatisfied with listening to my parents praise and worship music. I received a Walkman cassette player with FM radio for Christmas that year. I began listening to secular alternative rock stations on the radio. My mother found out and took the Walkman away from me.

At the age of 14 my family began to have issues with their church. It wasn't being run the way they thought the church should be run. I remember many conversations about how greatly dissatisfied they were with the church. My grandparents began attending a different church and I began attending their church. After a few weeks my whole family switched to the new church. I made friends at this church, something I don't recall having at the old church.

Only a few months later the youth pastor that I had grown to like announced that he was going to be leaving the church, it was God's will. I later found it out it was the head pastors will, that he was told to leave the church. A new youth pastor came to fill the position, I very quickly grew to like the new youth pastor. The new youth pastor was at the church for a few short years. He invested time in me, attempting to pull me out of my introverted shell, and he was successful to a large extent. The new youth pastor introduced me to Christian Rock music, this type of music wasn't approved of by my parents and we had numerous fights over the subject, a few of the fights resulted in them confiscating the "Christian Rock" Cd's and demanding that I listen to "holier" music. All the while I can recall my father listening to secular country stations, a hypocrisy that I pointed out.

Sometime around the age of 15 the family bought their first home computer. I once again found pornography on the Internet. After a number of weeks my parents figured out that I had been surfing the Internet for that type of content. I was scolded, and I remember feeling great shame. I remember crying, and my parents leading me through a prayer of repentance because I was a sinner.

Sometime around this same age I can remember riding in the car with my mother and sister. I voiced my opinion about being unhappy with a certain aspect of my life. My mother's response was that I needed to pray about it. It's the first time I can recall becoming angry at a response of this nature.

At the age of 15 I had my first girlfriend. My family approved of her, she was from the same church as us. I would spend all day on Sunday with her sitting in the basement of her families house watching movies.

At this same age I began playing saxophone in the church band every Sunday for both services. My girlfriend played the clarinet in the same band, we dated for 6 months.

At the age of 16 I received my drivers license. At this point my family gave me a car to drive, for the most part I had a decent amount of freedom. There were occasions where I would drive 45 minutes away to hang out with friends from church. I'd stay out all weekend with their car, and I called in home once or twice. On occasion I violated my midnight curfew with no consequence.

Sometime around the age of 16 or so I picked up the guitar and began to learn. I was now playing in three Sunday church services which had practices on Thursday evenings. I was also playing in the youth group band which held practices on Wednesday before service. My commute to this church was approximately 35 minutes one way with no traffic. I would make this commute 4 times a week on average for a number of years.

Somewhere around the age of 17 or 18 the youth pastor that had been a large influence in my life announced he was going to be leaving, and that he was going to go back to school, it was God's will. I later found out that the Head Pastor had told him to leave, just like the previous youth pastor. A few months later the Head Pastor's wife took over the youth along with almost every aspect of the church.

Sometime after graduating high school I remember being told by the music pastor ( who was later fired for participating in secular activities) that I needed to have a private meeting with him and one of the pastors wives. In this meeting I was told that they had been keeping record of my attendance.They informed me that I was 15 minutes late to a practice one Thursday, this was due to traffic. They felt that my heart was no longer in the worship program and that I was being asked to quit both the adult and youth services. After 4.5 years of devoted volunteer work, I had been "fired." I remember walking outside of the church after that meeting and crying for a long time. I remember feeling used and discarded.

At this point I began to hang out with friends I had met at FaHoLo church camp. They were not from the Assemblies of God, they belonged to a non denominational church. I remember my family being disappointed in my decision to attend other churches. It was here that I met a different type of Christian, these were people who had previous experience with drug use, some had had premarital sex, most listened to secular music. I remembered feeling acceptance unlike anything I had previous experienced, simultaneously most of my previous church friends shunned me for hanging out with this crowd.

Somewhere around this time I can recall my father getting so upset with our pet dog, a shit-zu, that he threw the dog off a chair, I remember the dog yelping. I remember screaming at him in front of everyone for the way he had treated the dog. I was the only one there who yelled at him for his behavior.

At the age of 19 I met a girl, we fell in love. She wasn't a practicing Christian when I met her. Shortly after her and I first meeting she went to church with my family and I. She went to the altar at church one Sunday morning and "gave her heart to Jesus Christ". My mom prayed with her at the altar, and my she "got saved".

A few weeks after we started dating I had sex for the first time. I remembered feeling so in love. A few weeks after we had been together her and I went to my home, my parents greeted us at the door and both of them were very unhappy. I remember my mother and father sitting my girlfriend and I down, they proceeded to inform us that they were aware that my girlfriend and I had been having sex. My mother explained to me that she had cleaned my car (an event that had never occurred before and never occurred again) and in doing so she discovered a note book which contained discourse between my girlfriend and I. These private and explicit notes made it clear that we had been physically intimate. I remember my mother explaining to my girlfriend and I that I was raised to know better then to behave in such a manner, and that because of our actions we were both sinners. I remember my girlfriend leaving the house in tears. After she left, my parents prayed with me so that I could ask for forgiveness of my sins.

From this point on my parents and my girlfriend never got along very well. They always saw her as the girl who deflowered their little boy, and she always knew they felt that way. Around this time I was told that it was now required of me that I be home by 1 am, no later or I would be locked out of the house. This was something I had never experienced before.

I remember one night my girlfriend and I were going to leave my house. My father made a snide comment to me as I was leaving. I remember having this overwhelming feeling that I had had enough ill feeling from him so I retorted. I remember my father charging me, putting his hands around my neck and backing me into my girlfriend who was holding a glass chess board and pieces. I remember the glass snapping under the weight. I was concerned for my girlfriend's well being ( something my father clearly wasn't concerned about) all of the sudden the long suppressed anger I had felt came charging out. I remember slamming my father into a wall and choking him. I remember my mother pulling us apart and my sister screaming and crying.

I remember one night not wanting to leave my girlfriend, I just wanted to lay with her. I stayed out past my 1 am curfew. At this point I was either 20 or 21. My parents bought a special storm door, to which they did not give me the key. I came home to a locked door. I called my sister to let me in, and she did. The next day I was told that if I ever had my sister let me in again that her and I both would get in trouble. From that point on I started leaving windows unlocked in case I needed to get in after 1 am.

At the age of 21 I had my first taste of alcohol, it was champagne. I remember feeling no shame or guilt, I remember liking the flavor and the effect.

When I was 22 my sister met a guy who wasn't a practicing Christian. Shortly after she started dating him, he left for music school in California. My sister wanted to go visit him for a week. My parents informed her that she wasn't allowed to visit her boyfriend. Eventually she packed everything she could into a few bags and attempted to leave the house. My mother took my sister's bags and locked them in a bedroom so that my sister couldn't leave. My sister called the police to have them assist her in being escorted with her belongings from the home. My sister went to California and stayed out there for a number of months.

When my sister moved back to our resident state of Michigan she moved in with her boyfriend and lived with him for roughly 2 years.

In the meantime my girlfriend and I had started attending a non-denominational church every Wednesday and Sunday. Our church was always looked down on due to the fact that it wasn't evangelical and didn't promote the "gifts of the holy spirit" IE speaking in tongues. My parents came to church with us one time when my girlfriend was being baptised and maybe one other time for a Christmas play. I was always asked to go to their church, especially for Holidays. If I did not attend their church for Holidays I was put on an immense guilt trip.

Over the few years that I dated this female I slept in my car roughly a half dozen times. Most occasions were in winter, so I had to sleep with my car running to stay warm, I was locked out for breaking my newly formed 1 am curfew.

I was frequently asked by my mother if my girlfriend and I were still having sex. I remember lying often to my parents to avoid punishment, guilt and shame from them.

Somewhere around the same time I remember my father screaming at my girlfriend because of a business decision her and I had made the he didn't approve.

My parents owned a cottage in northern Michigan. For a long period of time when they would go out of town, I'd stay home by myself. For a long period of time I remembered hoping that on their way to, or back from their cottage, that they'd get into a fatal car accident. I remember wishing my parents were dead and out of my life, I remember knowing that I shouldn't feel this way, and yet the idea of not having them in my life brought a sense of freedom that my present situation didn't seem to offer.

My relationship with my girlfriend was on the rocks, we broke up and got back together a few times. In that period of time I started going to my parents church which was the 3rd Assembly of God church they had been members of since I had been born. I attended this church for roughly a year. My girlfriend and I got back together and we attended this church a few times but ultimately we went back to the non-denominational church that we had been previously attending. Once again my family was disappointed with my choice.

I was 23, my girlfriend and I broke up for the last time. We had been fighting a lot. Sometimes I would fly into a rage and sometimes the fights became physical. I remember being so angry all the time. I remember doing things that scared me. I remember always feeling like I had to choose between my girlfriend being happy with me and respecting me and my parents being happy with me. Ultimately I let go of my girlfriend, I felt as though I was being torn in two.

I felt sorrow greater then anything I had ever felt. I spent almost a year in emotional agony and turmoil. I sat in the dark, alone with my sorrow many nights. If I didn't sit at home alone, I'd go out to the bar with guys from work. I began drinking often. I hid a 5th of Bacardi Limon in my desk drawer at home. I'd wait until my parents went to sleep and I'd start drinking. When they went out of town I'd drink until I passed out.

Part II
Sorrow and suffering -- my new best friends.

It was at this time I began to question many things. My circumstances, my own emotions, how I ended up in the place that I was in. If Christianity is the Truth, and it's supposed to make a person loving and compassionate like Jesus, then why am I always SO angry. If the Christian life is a life of love and joy and peace, then why didn't I see it in anyone close to me? Why was I always so angry, why did I get upset so easily? Why did my girlfriend and I fight so frequently? Why did my parents and I fight so often? Why was I always so afraid of everyone else's opinion of me? I was afraid of what my parents, girlfriend, boss, pastor, youth pastor, friends all thought of me, I sought their approval all the time. I was terrified of them being upset with me. Why did I cry myself to sleep so many nights? Why did I lay in bed and think to myself, if I died in my sleep how peaceful and freeing that would be?

It was around this time that I read a few books which had a large impact on me. Ironically both authors s were Christians, John Eldredge and Donald Miller. I remember reading in one of John Eldredge's books that he didn't attend church for a year and it resulted in a whole new perspective for him on church. I read Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller after that. The only thing I can recall from the book was that he felt unconditional love and acceptance from the non-Christians at the college he was at, and that it was a foreign concept in Christian circles. I remember reading a chapter that explained that most Christians trade in love like it's a commodity. When you behave in a manner that is socially accepted by your church peers they lavish you with love, however if you take an action that they don't agree with then they withhold their love as a punishment. This was behavior that I had become accustomed to growing up in my house, this was my father's M.O. I eventually came to understand how manipulative this behavior was.

Around this same time I started talking to a close friend of mine whom I hadn't spoken since he'd gone off to an AG (Assembly of God) college. He started telling me about the things he was learning in college, specifically about the scholastic composition of the Bible. He started sharing with me all that he was learning. Things like : The Bible was complied by Constantine over 300 years after Christ supposedly had died, that Bible Scholars had no idea where Christ was crucified or was buried, that they had no idea who wrote the 4 gospels, that they didn't even know if there actually was 4 gospels, That 2 of the Gospels may have come from one original book called the Q text and that Matthew and Mark were copied from that, and that Luke and John were copied off of Matthew and Mark, The fact that the book of John disagreed with the other 3 books on a number of things, and the list goes on.

I began to look up this information for myself and what I learned shook the very foundations of what I was raised to believe. I began to go back and read the Bible with new eyes. I approached the Bible with the idea that IF the Bible was inspired by God, then I should be able to pick it up and read it and understand it like a text book for life, and that in doing so it should mold me into a good person. What I discovered instead was myriad of questions, all of which went unanswered by everyone around me. Ultimately with enough research into the scholarly aspects of the Bible, I came to realize just how human the compilation of the Bible was. It was at this point that I realized that the world that I was raised to see as black and white was actually very grey. It was at this point that I asked myself just how far this grey area went.

I began studying anything I could get my hands on, all the while I was judging Christianity by the fruit it produced, after all that was a concept put forth by Jesus Christ himself. So if Christians hold the cornerstone on what it means to live a life of Love, then why do they have the highest divorce rate of all religions where as atheists have the lowest? Why was it that all I had ever seen growing up were displays of discontentment, disapproval, anger, guilt, shame, fear, and a sense of oppression? Why was it that my family and I could only stay at a church for so long before something went terribly wrong.

In the middle of my personal journey out of theism, the AG church my parents had been attending had a "situation". The pastor they loved and worshiped announced that he was leaving to go to the west coast. Shortly there after it was discovered that the church was 3 years behind on bills and on the verge of foreclosure. I remembered feeling a sense of vindication, I remember saying to myself "and another one bites the dust".

A very wise friend of mine once said "All things end badly, otherwise they wouldn't end.", this statement was definitely true of every church experience I'd ever had growing up.

It was at this point that I developed a voracious appetite for any information and evidence I could get my hands on. I started to wonder, if everything I was raised to believe is seemingly flawed and founded on unsubstantiated claims, then what else is there? I started watching any documentary I could get my hands on that may help me to establish my sense of identity and my world view. I read the Bible on my own, I read scholarly reviews of the Bible, I watched documentaries on how the Bible was made, what books made the cut what books didn't, the Gnostic Gospels, the Apocryphic books, I watched documentaries about archeology and if it supported the Bible, Ancient history, biology, the evidence for evolution, quantum physics, theoretical physics, astronomy, astrology, Ancient Celtic and Druidic lore, Sumerian, Egyptian, and Mayan mythologies, panspermia, even some occult ideas. I began to look at other world religions and how they compared to Christianity, Buddhism, Hindu beliefs, pagan beliefs and rituals and how they've influenced Christianity. The similarities between Jesus, Mithra, Buddha, Krishna, Horus, Sumerian epics, etc.

During this time I had been attending the fore-mentioned non-denominational church. It was at this point that I stopped attending this church as well, my personal goal was to remove myself from the influence of a church for a full 12 months and at the end of 12 months reflect and determine how I felt about my time out from under the influence of the church. However it was a condition of my living situation that I attend church atleast once a week. My parents said I could live with them rent free as long as I went to church once a week. Since it was a priority for me to not attend church, I simply lied to them and said I went, I'd leave the house for a couple hours and come back and tell them that I had attended. After all I didn't want to get kicked out of the house, and lying was easier then having a fight.

After roughly 1 year of study and discourse with a few very close friends I realized that I knew enough to recognize just how ignorant I was. Where as before in the ignorance of my youth I thought that I had it all figured out. At this point I knew enough to know how to ask quality questions. So I systematically started asking questions of those around me who were Christian. I found one recurring theme, they ultimately came to a point where they said, "I don't know, I suppose you just have to have faith." To me this answer was the greatest intellectual cop out and failure, to me it was a "Christianese" way of saying, "I don't know but I believe this because I want to, I have no reason for my belief.". Every time I asked a question of a Christian who ultimately had no logic / reason / evidence for why they believed what they believed, I became more and more bold. Their doubt was my strength, I began asking harder and harder questions of a growing number of people. I ultimately worked up the courage to challenge my mother on some basic Biblical questions. At this point I knew that I was going to be moving out of my parents home. I had to get out from under their influence, just as I had removed myself from the influence and authority of the church. Ultimately I decided that if I was going to have a relationship with my parents after I moved out, it was going to be on the grounds of mutual respect.

One night I questioned my mother on many biblical subjects, to which she had little to no answers. I remember my father came into the conversation toward the tail end when I was simply using the Bible to challenge their own Assembly of God beliefs, my father responded to this challenge by slamming his bedroom door in my face. It was at this point that I decided that my parents most likely would never be able to respect me as an individual, and we'd most likely never be able to have a conversation about anything that mattered in life. Sadly I came to the decision that my parents aren't the type of people that I could be friends with. A couple months later I moved out of their house and we've not spoken since.

My major transformation overall took roughly 2 to 2.5 years. I have by no means "arrived". However I can honestly say that in my own personal journey, born out of suffering and ignorance, I have come a long way. I have learned more in the last 3 years of my life then I learned in the previous 24. I am no longer the angry, ignorant, biased boy that I once was. I can honestly say that up until this point in life I've never had the sense of clarity and foundation that I now I have.

As of yet I don't know of a method by which I can instill a sense of curiosity about the world into another individual. I can only speak from my own journey, and it boiled down to the fact that I hit a point where I decided that I wanted to know the Truth regardless of what it was. I didn't care if the Truth supported the worldview I was taught to believe in or if the Truth was that everything I was ever taught to believe was a complete lie. I merely wanted to know what was True and what was false in the world. Out of my desire to figure out what the Truth was, came a sense of wonder and curiosity about the world.

Ultimately I suggest one simple thing:Question "Authority." If those who claim to have answers don't have any actual answers, then you should feel free to stop listening to them. Know yourself, know about the world in which you live. Never stop discovering reality for what it is, and always approach it like it's brand new, question everything. I'm now of the mindset that that which is True should be able to stand on it's own Merritt. To put it another way I borrow some words from the Declaration of Independence, " We hold these Truths to be self evident... "

Cold Comfort

2009-11-07T16:45:00Z

by Tony O

You all know that one thing that Xians like to put forward as their justification or rationale for a belief in gawd is that gawd provides “comfort” and “consolation” for the dying, for the grieving, or for those in crisis. I would like to tell you of something that I witnessed which gives the lie to this claim. Please note that I am not generalising to all Xians, I’m simply offering this one thing as a particularly egregious example of the lie of “consolation.” Every word of the following is true.

My wife has two very good friends. These friends had a daughter. She died from an undiagnosed heart defect. She was two years old. She was taken very ill, brought into hospital and died the next day despite the best efforts of her doctors and nurses.

The funeral was held at the Methodist church that my wife’s family attend. It was, as you would imagine, dreadful. The worst part was seeing the tiny coffin being carried into the church.

The time came for the pastor to say the eulogy. The pastor knew the family well. I waited for what he would say. Do you know what he said?

Nothing.

Not a word.

In fact, his exact words were “There’s nothing that I can say that can make anything any better at this awful time”. Then the service moved on to hymns.

I had wondered what crumbs of consolation, what scraps of the comfort of jebus and resurrection this man of gawd would offer to them at this time of their public grief. But he said nothing.

Now you and I might, as lay people, also have nothing to say to people undergoing such a terrible loss. I would imagine that we could not, unless we had been through something similarly terrible, have anything to say that would make the slightest bit of difference or make these people feel any better. All we could do is be there for them.

But this was a “man of gawd”. A man of belief. A man who gets into his pulpit every Sunday to bang on about jebus and gawd and how we will all be saved and live in eternal bliss with our lord. But he said nothing.

Later, I found my self wondering “Why”? Why did he feel unable to say nothing about the alleged life everlasting, the joy and peace that can be found in our supposed rebirth in jebus?

I don’t mean to put words into anyone’s mouth or ascribe thoughts to people which may or may not have been there. But thinking about it later, the only conclusion that I could come to was that this purported man of gawd didn’t believe a word of it himself, and he must have realised that spouting the usual hollow Xian platitudes would have been the equivalent of spitting in these poor people’s faces. So much for the consolation of belief.

Except A Corn of Wheat...

2009-11-06T09:20:00Z

by Sharon: Bachelor of Science UM

Image by ohadweb via Flickr

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." John 12:24 KJV

This verse, attributed to Jesus in the New Testament, is glaringly wrong. Can you see why ?

Never mind whether or not Jesus actually lived, or whether or not this translation holds the "true" words of God. For the sake of argument, let us assume all of that is true, and these were the actual words spoken by Jesus, and therefore the actual words of God to us. What is wrong with the above statement ? Where does this statement fail in its assessment of both how to grow crops and how to live ones life?

For years I had an organic garden I cultivated and tended. It gave me great joy to learn the intricacies of how best to grow flowers and vegetables. I learned much about germinating seeds and spent many happy hours in my house with small containers of dirt containing all kinds of seeds under warming lights, waiting for the first hint of spring.

We have the advantage of science which explains that when you plant a seed it can do one of two things, it can die (many do) or it can germinate. So what is wrong with this statement by Jesus ?

Well first of all it shows that Jesus and those in his generation, did not know the first thing about what happens to seeds when they are planted! Apparently they thought that when you plant a seed it dies and then "springs to life" in some sort of "resurrection" event thereby producing bountiful harvests. That is not what happens to seeds when they are planted.

We have the advantage of science which explains that when you plant a seed it can do one of two things, it can die (many do) or it can germinate. Those seeds which remain alive under the ground and germinate are the ones that produce crops. Those seeds that die produce nothing. Dead seeds produce no crops.

In addition to my organic garden I was also a devout evangelical Christian. I tended my garden faithfully, as I did my Christian faith. "Laying down my life" for others was a given, as this is what Jesus commanded. So I concentrated on applying my efforts to seeing that others became successful in their jobs and careers, while not worrying about my own success, as "God" would take care of that. I also applied my efforts to seeing that the "Kingdom of God" was advanced by volunteering my time and money to make my local church successful. For decades I was certain that my devotion to the principles of Christianity would provide me with a secure future, in this world and the world to come.

Then the marriage I trusted in to secure my life ended. Suddenly I was left without job opportunities and no secure source of income or health insurance. The three children I had devoted my "career years" to raising, launched into successful young adulthood and left home for college and excellent career prospects. I had "died to myself" and the result was now I had no career, no husband, and three kids I couldn't afford to help or enjoy. A complete reassessment was necessary!

Fortunately I rebounded quickly and cast off ancient superstitious "faith based" thinking and replaced it with science supported "reason based" thinking.

This bible verse is just one of many that showcases the ignorance of Jesus and his generation regarding many subjects, which science has since that time accurately detailed.

Raised Catholic, now secular humanist/atheist

2009-11-05T08:55:00Z

by Cecile

I submitted a deconversion story on this site back in the early 2000's which is probably long gone by now--I certainly haven't been able to relocate it--and which would have been posted long before there was ever an option on here for reader comments. At best, you could post a website or contact info, and I originally included an email address, but removed it after I got a few too many replies from Christians who thought it was still possible that I could be brought back into the fold, "if you just want it enough!" Sorry, but I don't want it at all, and I left behind any belief in God or gods where it belongs, back in my childhood along with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. In any case, it's been almost a decade, so it's time for a newer version of the story.

I was born in the Philippines in 1967, and like 90% of the people there, my parents were practicing Catholics. We moved first to Canada and then to Michigan in 1971. I went to a public school up until the third grade and at some point in the day every Wednesday, the Catholic kids would be gathered up and sent to another school a few blocks away for catechism lessons, so even from the earliest memories, I knew my religion was just one among many, and we were in the minority in most places where we lived, which made any variations of an argument ad popularum useless, unless you were speaking of Christianity in general, and not just Catholicism. I understood that most kids just went along with whatever their parents raised them in, and even as a practicing Catholic, was pretty much the "live and let live" variety.

My family moved to Arkansas in 1979 and sent us to a Catholic school, so even though we were "among our own kind" while at school, while in the public at large, we were even more of a minority here than we were in Michigan, although people from my church did seem to own a disproportionately large number of the local businesses. When I was in the sixth grade, I read some books on ancient mythology--Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, etc. While enjoying the stories, I couldn't help thinking in the back of my mind that at one time, people believed in those gods just as much as they do the ones today. For all we knew, the religions of today will be the ones our descendants look at a few centuries from now, laugh or shake their heads at, and wonder, "What the hell were they thinking back then?"

Even while still professing to be a Catholic, there was more than a little bit of agnosticism creeping even before I made it to my teens. "I believe such and such, but I know there isn't actually any proof for any of it, so I have no right to expect anyone else to believe it." Attempts at "witnessing" or converting non-Catholics would have been extremely disrespectful to the other person and out-of-the-question for me.

Then came junior high school and more religion classes, and now we were getting into more grown-up subject matter. Not that I hadn't heard about any of these teachings before, but the more I learned about rules that were almost exclusive to Catholicism, the more I realized, "This church is completely out of touch with modern times, and it's not for me." For instance, as a female, I found the rules about not letting women be priests or letting the male priests be married highly offensive. They might as well be saying, "We hold women in such contempt that not only do we not want any of them in any leadership position (unless you can count nuns smacking schoolkids with rulers), the only men we want are ones that don't want anything to do with women." Then there were the rules forbidding artificial birth control (which is rightly ignored by most Catholics anyway) and abortion. "Right, like I'm going to take family planning advice from some celibate, post-geriatric guy in a dress. When's the last time you were pregnant, Padre?" Thank goodness I never listened to the one about "no sex before marriage" either, or I'd be the 42-Year-Old Virgin right now. I refuse to believe that when my partner and I are expressing our love for one another physically, that somehow we're doing something evil and sinful, just because we don't have a piece of paper or matching wedding bands.

In any case, once I had any choice at all in the matter, I stopped attending weekly mass with my parents. At first, it was because I had my first job after graduating high school, and they scheduled me to work Sunday afternoons. I obviously couldn't be in two places at once, but there was always a deeper reason beyond just needing some extra spending money. I'd long felt extremely uncomfortable being there, like a time traveler from a future where religion didn't exist anymore, who went back to study the earlier culture by pretending to be a member of one of the churches that existed at the time, just to see how far we'd really come or verify that people really were that crazy back then. On a really bad day, I felt like an undercover officer infiltrating a cult to see what they were up to.

A lot of the above explains my problems with Catholicism in particular, but as for religion in general, I wasn't inclined to switch over to any other variety of it either. It probably has a lot to do with my personality type, which according to every variation of the Myer-Briggs indicator I've taken recently, is an INTJ, very rare, especially for a woman. If you want me in a nutshell, picture Dr. Temperance Brennan from "Bones," only without the fancy degree, well-paying job, the pop cultural illiteracy, or the tactlessness in public.

The introvert vs. extrovert preference, in particular, was a very strong one, like choosing the introvert answer 7 out of 7 or 6 out of 7 possible times. Part of what goes with that is being content with--if not having an outright preference for--one's own company. Much of what might have motivated almost any other person to belong to some kind of church despite being plagued by doubts--wanting to belong to some kind of community--just doesn't apply to me. They can't entice me with the prospect of filling that void because I don't have that void.

Another aspect of being that type is that thoughts and reason are held in more value than emotions and wishes, which would explain a lot. All those things which hold emotional appeal for Christians--believing there's a personal God that loves them and answers their prayers, that they'll get to spend eternity in heaven if they just believe and do what they're told, that they'll be reunited with their lost loved ones in that same after life, etc., none of that holds any weight with me. When it comes to supernatural or paranormal or any similar type claims, I've always had rather a skeptical mind that considered them to be "B.S. until proven otherwise." I don't hold claims that have God or religion attached to them to a different standard of evidence than ones about ghosts or aliens or ESP, or Christianity-based claims to a different standard than those of any other religion's. Maybe the same thing that's made me "immune" to religious yearnings is what's made me almost completely uninterested in experimenting with drugs and alcohol. I'm far too committed to accepting reality on its own terms, no matter how bad it sucks sometimes, to want it handed to me through some religious or chemically-induced haze. I want to see it for exactly what it is, so I can deal with it appropriately.

It also doesn't matter to me what most of the people in my family or my locality or my country believe. All that matters is this. Going strictly by the kind of evidence that would be accepted if this were a scientific theory being tested or that would be admissable in a court of law, is there any more evidence that supports Christianity's claims than there is supporting any of the other 10,000 or so religions floating around out there? If there is, I certainly have never found it.

I'm starting to really like the term "apatheist." It's not an official word in the dictionary, but the connotation is that the person doesn't believe in God, but doesn't really give a flip whether anybody else does or not. They very well might think religion is such a pointless subject, it's not worth their thought energy to dwell on it that much. If pressed to, I probably couldn't prove that elves and unicorns and dragons DON'T exist, but I'm not going to lose any sleep wondering what to say to any people who think that they do. I actually deliberately avoid ever asking what religion a person is when I meet them, because I don't want to unconsciously try to stereotype them or predict their actions based on the answer. If they bring the subject up first, sure, I'll listen, but I'd prefer to learn for myself what they're like from their own behavior over time. To this day, there's people I've been friends with for years who I have no idea what religion, if any, they consider themselves to be, and that includes the boyfriend I've had for over a year. Don't ask, don't tell, don't know, don't care.

It certainly hasn't always been easy. My mother can be especially condescending on the subject. She seems to have bought into all the stereotypes that people who leave religion do so because they weren't willing to follow the rules and want to sin freely. She keeps holding out hope that my atheism (which has gone on at some level for 27 out of my 41 years) is "just a phase," and I'll go back to Catholicism once I'm older and wiser. It just doesn't occur to her that people leave them behind because they decide (gasp!) they're not true, and they'd rather have new friends or none at all than to only have ones for which they have to pretend to be someone they're not or believe in something that they don't as a condition of acceptance. I might not be a Christian anymore, but I have plenty of principles and morals outside of that part of my life, and they prohibit me from trying to win friends by living a life of such utter hypocrisy. I am what I am, and if you can't accept that, you can kiss my you-know-what, because there are plenty of people that will.

How Finding Jesus Helped Me Deconvert

2009-11-04T09:11:00Z

by Marlene Winell

I met Jesus in Golden Gate Park many years ago and he helped change my life. He sent me in a new direction – away from Christianity.

I was reminded of it on Sunday, October 25, because it was the 40th anniversary of Woodstock, celebrated with enthusiasm at Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. I wandered through the crowd with my grown son, Ryan, as we pushed our bicycles, enjoying the sights and sounds – 60’s music coming from the bands,tie-dyed banners, the smell of incense and herb, and booths selling candles, New Age books and music, psychedelic art, and healthy food. The event was free, and so was the painting – on your face, cloth banners, or sheets of paper on the ground. Peace signs were all around. The folks with gray hair and fond memories were well represented, but so were young people who missed the Summer of Love. Young girls had long hair and headbands, flowers, and even wings.

When we arrived, the band played and people sang along, swaying and clapping:

C'mon people now,
Smile on your brother
Ev'rybody get together
Try and love one another right now

I was drawn to the message to “be here now” -- so different from thinking in terms of sin and salvation.
It made me smile and I joined in. I felt good, knowing the Youngbloods tune and helping my son a bit with the words. There was such optimism, joy, and warmth in many of the songs of that era.

BJ Thomas sang

"Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head" with those lines: Because I’m free, Nothin’s worryin’ me

From Seals and Crofts, we got the soothing:

Summer breeze, makes me feel fine
Blowing through the jasmine in my mind.

Then "Feelin’ Groovy" from Simon and Garfunkle was just plan fun and happy:

Slow down, you move too fast,
you've got to make the morning last
Just kickin' down the cobble-stones,
Lookin’ for fun and feelin’ groovy

And of course, the Beatles sang of the power of love:

All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

But the Summer of Love happened without me. Not only was I living in Taiwan, but I was taught that peace and love could only come through Christ, and that others, no matter how sincere, were deceived by Satan. When my family moved to Southern California, I found my tribe with the Jesus Freaks, who mimicked the hippie lifestyle but abstained from drugs and free love. We said we were high on Jesus.

But we were not at peace. We believed the End was nigh; it was not the Age of Aquarius. We were told the signs of Jesus’ imminent return were clear and this meant we were compelled to spread the gospel before it was too late. So, in addition to living in communes, learning macramé, sand candles, and batik, we “witnessed” on the streets and got people baptized at the beach. This included my new boyfriend.

Now picture me in San Francisco with a group called Youth With A Mission. I think I was 17 and it was spring break. We went out each day to save lost souls and warn them of the End, regrouping in the evening to get more training. I was emboldened enough by my sincere faith to speak with total strangers in the big city.

One day in the park is still with me because it was a shock to my system. I remember the trees were beautiful and the day was warm. I approached a man with long hair and asked him “Do you know Jesus?” He smiled and said, “I am Jesus.”

Well, I was unprepared for this and I was speechless. To me Jesus was spiritual and lived in our hearts after we accepted that he came to earth and died for our sins 2000 years ago. You couldn’t just BE Jesus. But I was trained to be polite and listen, plus this was interesting. “Jesus” said we were all God and just didn’t realize it. He was warm and serene. I realized I had nothing to say to that, so I hurried away.

And THANK-YOU to the song-writers who spoke to my heart and the musicians who taught me to dance. But my head was spinning and my life was heading down a different path. Could it be that people could be happy and satisfied without being born-again Christian? I couldn’t argue with this man who looked at me with quiet wisdom in his face. Who was I to claim the one and only “truth”? I knew he wasn’t just crazy and I never discussed him with the Christian group.

So last Sunday, the festival in the park was taking me back and I said to my son, “I wonder what ever happened to Jesus?” What’s he doing now? Does he still believe? Or has he changed, like me? Christians talk about “finding Jesus,” so I guess that day the answer would have been, “He’s in the park.” And I did indeed find him.

I also wandered Haight Ashbury that week and found a lot of things. The shops had beads and crystals and Indian tapestries, pictures of gurus, and information on Eastern philosophy. This environment wasn’t nearly as evil as I was taught to expect. The freedom, the color, the creativity, the sharing, the connection with nature, all appealed to me. I was drawn to the message to “be here now” -- so different from thinking in terms of sin and salvation.

We Christians thought we had a monopoly on goodness. After all, the Bible said, “They shall know you by your love.” But I was finding out the hard way about many unloving things, both in the Bible and church history, and in my own circles. I was starting to hate the constant judgment of dividing the world into saved and unsaved.

I could see love among others in “The World,” and it seemed real enough. In fact, I thought we could learn a few things about listening and diversity and caring. I liked listening to James Taylor sing "You've Got A Friend."

In church, we were taught we could only depend on God, and we sang, “What a friend we have in Jesus.” I understand now that the brain is pretty amazing and having an adult imaginary friend is powerful. But I was coming to appreciate people and real human connection. Without know it, I was becoming a humanist.

Another song about real human love was by Simon and Garfunkle:

I'm on your side
When times get rough
And friends just can't be found
Like a bridge over troubled water
I will lay me down

And speaking of lying down, we were coming of age and there was the matter of sex. The hippie slogan, “Make love, not war” made sense to me, despite the Christian anxiety about anything physical. I remember Herman’s Hermits’ song sounding pretty wonderful:

There's a kind of hush all over the world tonight
All over the world you can hear the sounds of lovers in love

I discovered sensual joys for myself eventually and married the guy I got baptized with at the beach, so I needed my imaginary love affair less. He and I even made another visit to San Francisco, indulging more this time. I liked the spirit of Haight Ashbury – it was about exploration, expression, and being aware of one’s existence. The drugs made me curious, but more than that, I was intrigued by the various worldviews and perspectives on reality held by these “heathens” who didn’t seem stupid, crazy, or evil.

I loved the song by Scott McKenzie (and it still knocks me out):

If you come to San Francisco
Be sure to wear flowers in your hair
If you’re going to San Francisco
You’re gonna meet some gentle people there

I wore flowers in my long blonde hair at my hippie Christian wedding, which was overlooking the beach and strewn with sweet-peas from my own garden. My political awareness was still undeveloped but I was listening to “Blowin’ in the Wind,” “Where have all the Flowers Gone,” and “Imagine.” I felt the impact of the words, “hammer of justice, bell of freedom, and song of love between my brothers and sisters.”

Even as a Christian, I was always more impressed with the “fruits of the Spirit” (love, joy, peace. . .) than “gifts of the Spirit” (tongues, prophecy, healing. . .) because that’s where our lives are really lived. And what a relief when I finally left the stifling cocoon of Christianity and began celebrating life with all of humanity.

THANK-YOU “Jesus” of Golden Gate Park! I hope you are still happy, wherever you are.

And THANK-YOU to the song-writers who spoke to my heart and the musicians who taught me to dance. I’ll end this with another favorite -- “Joy to the World” – the song by Three Dog Night, not the Christmas carol.

If I were the king of the world
Tell you what I'd do
I'd throw away the cars and the bars and the war
Make sweet love to you
Sing it now...

Joy to the world
All the boys and girls
Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea
Joy to you and me

Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science, Part 6 of 6

2009-11-03T08:41:00Z

by Valerie Tarico

"Neurons in the brain" by Hljod.Huskona via Flickr

"I had no need of that hypothesis."

Over the course of the summer I wrote a series of articles about brain science and Christianity, and I promised a final installment that never came. This is it. The series asked and--within the limits of present knowledge--answered a set of questions that fascinate students at the intersection of religion and psychology.

How does the structure of human information processing pre-dispose us to religious thinking? Given how our minds work, what kinds of religious beliefs are possible and what kinds are we immune to?

How do we know what we know? What gives us a feeling of certainty? What is the relation between reason, evidence, and our sense of knowing?

How do conversion experiences work? What makes religious conversion transformative?

How do beliefs get transmitted from one person to another? How does our social context influence or even control our religious beliefs? How does religious identity develop in childhood?

What makes beliefs resistant to change? What causes people to lose belief? When are people open to reexamining religious assumptions?

Supernatural explanations for religious experience are becoming unnecessary.If you followed the series, or better yet the rabbit trails of embedded references, you would have found that they distilled an exciting set of discoveries. Brain science is remarkably close to offering a full naturalistic explanation of individual religious experiences, everything from certain belief to moral indignation to mystical rapture to spiritual transformation.

As theists are quick to point out, understanding the psychology of religion doesn’t tell us whether any specific set of beliefs is true. I might believe in a pantheon of supernatural beings for all the wrong reasons (childhood credulity, hyperactive agency detection, theory of mind, group hypnotic processes, misattributed transcendence hallucination, viral transmission, cognitive dissonance reduction) and they might still might exist. Brain scientists can’t address the truth value of otherworldly assertions, only the mechanisms and patterns through which they occur in this the human mind.

In a similar way, all scholars of religion are bound by the methods and focus of their respective fields. Many fields can illuminate some aspect of the religious enterprise, and each has its limits. Hard scientists are limited to addressing the testable assertions religions make about natural phenomena, such as the origins of species or the causes of epilepsy or the power of intercessory prayer. Historians, aided by linguists and archaeologists, can excavate the history of a set of ideas, but – except where theologians make historical assertions-- they too cannot answer definitively whether these ideas are factually correct. Sociologists and anthropologists can examine the patterns and impact of belief on a collective. They are uniquely able to assess claims that religious belief increases love and joy or decreases crime. It remains the domain of philosophers and ethicists to examine the rational and moral qualities of religious beliefs—to examine internal coherence or the virtue of a belief system as it relates to a set of universal ethical principles. All of these are questions that lay outside the domain of brain science which, as I said earlier, limits itself to the subjective experience of the individual and the correlates of that experience in neurological phenomena.

Despite these many limitations, cognitive research, does offer what is rapidly becoming a sufficient explanation for the phenomenon of belief. If we are particularly concerned with Christianity, then we are particularly concerned with belief. And more and more, we can explain Christian belief with the same set of principles that explain supernaturalism generally. This is a serious blow to orthodoxy, meaning any religion based on right belief, and that includes most traditional forms of Christianity.

In the past, one of the arguments put forward by believers was that there simply was no explanation for the born again experience, the healing power of Christianity, the vast agreement among believers, or the joy and wonder of mysticism, save that these came from God himself. These experiences, they insisted, justified or even demanded belief in the Christian God including a personal, present resurrected Jesus. We now know this not to be the case. Humans are capable of having transcendent, transformative experiences in the absence of any given dogma. We are capable of sustaining elaborate systems of false belief and transmitting them to our children. We are capable of feeling so certain about our false beliefs that we are willing to kill or die for them.

It possible, absolutely, to assert the truth of Christian beliefs even knowing that there are now other explanations for the Christian experience. Claims about the afterlife or the spiritual realm are, after all, untestable. They cannot be proven, and they cannot be refuted. When it comes to beliefs about the “world to come,” literally anything goes.

It also is quite possible to assert that the Christian experience has unique supernatural causes. One could say, for example, that Christian joy is somehow different from the joy experienced by other religious people: It alone has both material causes (social/physiological/psychological) and supernatural causes (e.g. the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit). But this kind of claim puts a defender of faith in an awkward position, one that is at odds with how cause and effect explanations usually work.

One general principle that has worked well for humans seeking to advance or refine knowledge is called “parsimony,” also known as Occam’s Razor. It can be paraphrased thus: “Usually the simplest explanation is the best one.” or “Don’t multiply entities unnecessarily.” If we can predict storms by looking at barometric pressure and cloud formations, then there is no need to posit the existence of storm spirits or angry ancestors causing us trouble. If we can predict that an electric light will come on when a circuit is completed, we don’t talk about the additional but undetectable flow of magic that activates the whole thing. When a scholar adheres to the principle of parsimony, explanatory factors get added only when they allow us to control or predict with greater accuracy.

In every field of human knowledge except theology, if we can find a sufficient explanation within nature’s matrix, we don’t look outside. We no longer, for example, posit that demons are involved in seizures or bubonic plague. It’s not that we know for sure that the demon explanation is wrong, simply that it is unnecessary for predicting or treating seizures.

What does all of this imply for the future of religious studies? Simply that supernatural explanations for religious experience are becoming unnecessary. Eighteenth Century French mathematician and astronomer, Pierre Simone Laplace, wrote a volume on the movements of the heavenly bodies. When asked by Emperor Napoleon I why he had not mentioned God in his treatise, he replied, “je n'ai pas eu besoin de cette hypothèse.” I had no need of that hypothesis. Modern scholars of religion, more and more, find themselves echoing the words of Laplace. We have no need of that hypothesis.

If you would like to receive this series as a single Word doc, or if you would like to subscribe to weekly articles by Valerie Tarico, send your request to vt at valerietarico dot com.

The entire series by Valerie Tarico

Christian Belief through the Lens of Cognitive Science Part 5.75 of 6 (exchristian.net)

Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science: Part 5.5 of 6

Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science: Part 5 of 6 (exchristian.net)
Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science: Part 4 of 6 (exchristian.net)
Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science: Part 3 of 6 (exchristian.net)
Christian Belief Through the Lens of Cognitive Science: Part 2 of 6 (exchristian.net)
Christian Belief as a Natural Phenomenon: A Six-Part Series Part 1: Why Cognitive Science is essential to understanding Christianity.

Needing some advice

2009-11-03T00:07:00Z

A letter from Norig B

I need help arguing against a Christian who is persistently citing the Christian Bible when I'm objectively explaining to her why I am a secular humanist and living my days as an atheist with compassion for my fellow man.

After a few long emails passed back and forth, her latest message included this video:

I would like some advice on this video. I want to know which parts of the video I should address, as well as figuring out a way to properly express my argument.

The Objectively Absent God

2009-11-01T20:48:00Z

Sent in by Interested

We start with a story of a child: Myself as an early teen.

The setting: a Christian youth conference with the goal of re-igniting the fire of faith in America's youth. I am standing up front with hundreds of other believers accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior.

The worship music began to mellow and the lights stayed dim as dozens of conference staff poured across the crowd, laying hands on as many bowed heads as possible.

Some spoke loudly while others whispered. Some spoke in other languages while others spoke in movements.

My eyes were shut but I could feel a hand eventually make its way to the back of my head. This was it. I had heard about Christ and I knew that God was real, but this was the final moment.

The prayer started. "Lord please fill this boy with the holy spirit, let him know you are there, let him feel your presence. Let him know the joy of knowing you, and bring him into salvation through the death of your son, Jesus Christ..."

Inside my head the excitement grew. The dim light and powerful melodies echoing through the room ensured that this would be a very spiritual night. The creator of the universe was about to enter in to me, and I would be a new person tonight.

But instead of knowing that Christ was with me, I was left with a rather confused feeling. Did it work? Was I saved? Do I know Christ now? Did I do something wrong?

Around me tears flowed and sobs were heard. Everybody else seemed to be having a very emotional moment. Something must've gone wrong with me. Why didn't anything seem different?

Maybe I was over-thinking it, but this entire thing was ambiguous. Surely if I had just been filled with the Holy Spirit, I'd know by now, yes?

Questions and doubt suddenly filled my mind. Was everybody else just faking it? Or did I seriously just not want it enough? Was I not sincere enough to accept Jesus into my heart?

I left that conference that night with my group more confused than when I started. Surely that was not the goal of the conference.

What was missing? That's a good question. Impossible to know for sure. But why was it impossible?

There can be many explanations for my experience. Maybe I just wasn't truly ready. Maybe I didn't believe enough. Maybe I wasn't sorry enough for my sins.

Conveniently, the problem presented by Christianity is an unsolvable problem. It is a problem of vague degrees. What is it to be sorry enough? This question would torture me for a good portion of my childhood.

When everybody else can do something that you can't, you start looking within. What am I doing wrong? What's wrong with me?

The problem is that there is no objectivity within Christianity. Because there is no proof, there is no room for critical thinking.

Why would God give us the ability to utilize critical thinking, I often wondered, if we aren't to use it for the most important part of our lives?

It just never added up for me. It was a big chunk of change that never came out to the right number. Yet for a good portion of my life, I did spend a lot of time living a life that didn't make sense inside. We call this cognitive dissonance.

With the threat of hell hung above me and a set of instructions to "accept Christ" that never seemed to work for me, I was stressed, confused, and depressed. And what's worse, it just never made sense!

But maybe, in all my confusion, I ignored a certain logic. It's possible that the answer had been staring me in the face that night.

Did I want to accept Christ? Absolutely. I really believed he was real, why else would I have stepped forward that night? I was convinced that this was what I wanted for my life. I had faith that despite common sense, Christ was real, and I was ready to accept him into my heart.

So why would God decide not to enter my heart at that time? If he did, why would he choose to avoid letting me know? Why would the creator of the universe stay silent when I had done everything that was asked of me? When I had finally dedicated my life to Christ and wanted to make a commitment, why was the almighty silent?

To what advantage does God have for being silent in this predicament? Maybe because the objective proof I was seeking was that he didn't exist.

Ken Pulliam on the Dave Glover show

2009-11-01T16:21:00Z

Former fundamentalist Ken Pulliam, who holds a Ph.D. from BJU, is now an agnostic. Recently he accepted an invitation to discuss the existence of God with Rabbi Shmuel Greenwald and Father Jeff Vomundon on the Dave Glover Talk Radio Show in St. Louis, MO.

God: The Ultimate Indian Giver

2009-10-31T18:20:00Z

by TruthSurge

Is it right for God to take back something He freely gives to humans? What would we think of someone if they gave us a gift, then without warning, suddenly jerked it away from us? What if someone gave you a kidney to replace your last failing one? Then, six months later forced you to give it back? What would you think of that person? What if God did the same thing? Does it make it okay just because he's "God?"

Unquestioning, blind faith is just plain stupid

2009-10-31T17:38:00Z

by Neal Stone

There is always the argument that Christians give, “You just have to have faith”. They then throw out the following.

You have faith when you sat in that chair.

You have faith when you start your car.

You have faith you will wake up each morning.

So why don't you have faith in god?

Well, let's cover this argument shall we.

You have faith when you sat in that chair.

Sure, because I know it's going to hold me. After all most of the chairs I sit in I have sat in before. So I know they will probably hold me again. But we are talking about faith in an observable, visible physical object. I can see it, test it and determine that it will probably hold me. The faith in the chair is earned based of my observations.

You have faith when you start your car.Now give me an old chair that's a little beat up, and I will have some doubt and will sit in it with a little caution and doubt, but will also test it to be sure it will hold me.

You have faith when you start your car.

Sure, after I took it for a test drive and verified it runs. It since then has started up and proven itself trustworthy and reliable. Now the other car, not so much. The battery was dead (went bad) and it never started unless jumped. So my faith in that car went away. Then I replaced the battery and behold it runs now. Faith restored. But an earned faith.

You have faith you will wake up each morning.

Sure, after I was old enough to understand faith and was able to think. As a new born baby up until now I have had a daily experience called waking up. So I have had plenty of evidence to enable me to have faith.

So why don't you have faith in god?

Haven't you been listening? Oh yeah, you're a Christian so that would be a big “NO”!

Faith in something invisible and faith in something visible are two different things. I have faith in things I use each day because I have seen them work and even understand how they work. I spent 23 years in church and god has yet to earn my faith. At times I really did have faith and prayed, read the Bible and all that stuff. How many centuries did Christians believe and have faith the sun revovled around the earth?

Faith is something that is earned. Telling me to “just have faith” does nothing but lock me into your ideas and religion. It seems silly to just believe in something without real solid evidence to support it. If I lack faith I am accused on doubting god and hit with some guilt trip. Can you say “cult tactics”?

Blind faith is a dangerous tool that ruins lives. My faith in my car, waking up or a chair is not blind, but earned from working examples and evidence I have encountered throughout my life.

Well, the Bible says.

“Lean not on your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your paths.”

In other words, don't think for yourself but let in some dudes teaching guide you. Blindly follow what is taught you in church without question. No thanks! Been there done that and it almost ruined my life.

“Well, you just didn't have enough faith!”

Really? With the faith of a mustard seed I could move mountains according to the Bible. I am pretty sure I had much, much more faith than that. So yeah I had more than enough faith. Tons of the stuff for that matter.

So here is my question. Christians claim to have access to god's wisdom and knowledge. God knows everything therefore Christians have access to this. So why is it then that when someone asks a real tough question, they only give the same warmed over generic answers? Answers like:

“God only knows”
“God has his reasons”
“God works in strange and mysterious ways”
“We cant know the ways of god”
“You just gotta have faith”

Some old warmed over answers. Nothing really solid to hang onto. It's simple really. Since Christians aren't allowed to think they have to repeat everything that is taught them. For years that is all you hear answer wise.

I got so tired of asking tough questions just to get a stupid answer.

Here is the truth of it all. If god exists and god is who Christians claim he is hen that means god knows everything about Science, mathematics, trigonometry, geometry, algebra and the list goes on. God knows everything and controls everything according to Christian belief. So explain the way things are and the lousy assembly of the Bible?

Christians are supposed to have free access to god's wisdom and knowledge, yet they can't come up with any better answers than the same old warn out ones they give each time they are asked a tough question that demands a straight answer.

Since leaving Christianity, I have sought out those tough answers to my tough questions. I have realized that I can find answer and at the same time some things are beyond my understanding. My thinking has never been clearer and less cloudy. I feel much better about my life and have less trouble seeking and finding answers.

Jesus said, “Seek and you shall find.” I did seek and yes I did find, but it wasn't Jesus I found. It was logic, reason, and life without confusing religion. It was true freedom.

I seek evidence before I have faith in something. Faith is earned, not given blindly. And faith in something unproven is just plain dumb compared to faith in something proven such as starting my car.

Yeah, I have faith -- faith in something real and proven.

42!

Mr. Deity and the Identity Crisis

2009-10-30T08:09:00Z

Mr. Deity and Jesus try to figure out their relationship.

Round & Round

2009-10-30T07:54:00Z

by Carl S.

I thought some ExChristian.net readers might enjoy my poem, Round and Round, which appeared in the July/August issue of American Atheist magazine.

Round & Round

There are many kinds of dances
In the land of Limerick Zoo
And the town of Verse-Take-A-Pick,
Where the poems and the jokes
Doe-see-doe with the folks;
It’s the same old/new ballyhoo.

For the jokes and the wordplays are so much alike
In the ways they elicit emotion,
By twisting, accenting, with insightful might,
Elicit prejudice, delight, and devotion.

Suppose that the prose, so often repeated, inflected,
Must give credence to faith without reason,
The most ridiculous things are accepted,
Are jokes taken serious by folk,
The beyond rhyme or reason,
To the point where rejection is treason.

And they go round and round in perennial repeating tradition,
Seeking comfort in pain, which they spurn,
By key words and phrases that release inhibition,
Despite contradiction, determined and firm in conviction,
Unwilling to otherwise learn.

Now, as ever, the free mind must warn and observe
How conditions become in the Zoo,
That abstractions become gods to serve.

Can’t you feel and hear the swell
Of the congested carousel,
Popular, run by the always few?

-A footnote: A man comes home early from work to find his wife in bed with another man, whereupon he opens his dresser drawer, takes out a loaded pistol, and points it at his temple. His wife and her lover laugh at him. He shouts at them, “You think this is funny? Well, you’re next!” Similarly, God, in order to avenge the wrongs done him, kills himself! And you’re next.

Dedicated to all those who got off the merry-go-round.