Fulle Circle Podcast

A Conversation with Robin Meade

2012-01-17T11:35:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Robin Meade

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Follow Robin on Twitter: @RobinMeade

A Conversation with Elyse Levesque

2012-01-14T16:42:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Conversation with Elyse Levesque

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Follow Elyse on Twitter: @AtleastLevesque

A Conversation with Kate Lynch

2011-12-27T19:50:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Conversation with Kate Lynch

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Follow Kate Lynch on Twitter: @YoKateKing

A Conversation with Nicki Clyne

2011-12-23T14:29:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Conversation with Nicki Clyne

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Buy the Nicki Clyne Fan 'Zine HERE!

Follow Nicki Clyne on Twitter: @nickiclyne

A Conversation with Scott Mosier

2011-12-19T16:52:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Scott Mosier

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Follow Scott Mosier on Twitter at: @smosier

A Conversation with Amber Benson: Part II

2011-12-15T21:45:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Amber Benson

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Follow Amber Benson on Twitter: @amber_benson

Chat Your Cares Away: A Conversation with Muppet Performer Terry Angus

2011-12-13T00:18:00.000-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Terry Angus

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Visit Terry's Website here: AngusPuppets.com

A Conversation with John Landis

2011-12-09T16:35:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with John Landis

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A Conversation with Tara Platt

2011-12-05T12:13:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Tara Platt

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Follow Tara Platt on Twitter: @taraplatt

A Conversation with Dee Wallace

2011-12-04T22:12:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Dee Wallace

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Follow Dee Wallace on Twitter: @Dee_Wallace

A Conversation with Rider Strong

2011-12-01T22:54:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Rider Strong

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Follow Rider on Twitter: @OnTheStorm

A Conversation with Amber Benson

2011-11-29T12:55:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Amber Benson

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Follow Amber on Twitter: @Amber_Benson

A Conversation with Roscoe Orman

2011-11-26T17:24:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Roscoe Orman

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Fulle House: A Conversation with Jodie Sweetin

2011-11-21T10:39:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Jodie Sweetin

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Follow Jodie Sweetin on Twitter!: @JodieTweetin

Watch her new web series here!: http://CantGetArrestedShow.com

The Road to the Batcave: A Conversation with Screenwriter Tab Murphy

2011-11-18T18:15:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Tab Murphy

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A Conversation with Richard Karn

2011-11-17T16:18:00.001-08:00

The Fulle Interview with Richard Karn

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Kate Monster Talks!: A Conversation with Stephanie D'Abruzzo

2011-11-12T15:02:00.001-08:00

Jason Anders: So let's not bury the lead and jump right into talking about Avenue Q and what your earliest memories are of auditioning for it.

Stephanie D'Abruzzo: I never formally auditioned. Originally it was meant to be a television show, Robert Lopez and Jeff Marx had their first idea for it in 1999 and they really wanted the show to be very much in the vein of South Park- I believe the original title for the show was Avenue Q: Children's Television for Twentysomethings. Instead of doing a pilot they did a reading, very much in the same way you'd do a presentational reading of a stage show. The first reading was in May of 2000.

I came onboard after Rick Lyon, who they met from BMI, he'd already performed for them with a puppet he had built. Bobby and Jeff had won the Kleban Award for Kermit, Prince of Denmark which was basically a Muppet version of Hamlet that Rick had performed for them. They tried selling that concept to Henson, where my husband was working at the time, to see if it could be used as an online show. They played some songs from Avenue Q and said they were looking for a female puppeteer, to which he said "my wife is a puppeteer." Rick Lyon recommended me, but he thought I might be too busy. It was nice to be asked because I hadn't sang or danced on a stage in years. It was a great opportunity to do that, I didn't care that I wasn't getting paid.

We went into doing casual rehearsals and I remember hearing the songs for the first time. At that time the only songs that existed were the main theme, "If You Were Gay", "There is Life Outside Your Apartment", and "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" in the very first reading. We presented it like it would be a television show, and Kate Monster sang "Like It Was" from Merrily We Roll Along. The song "Special" had a different name and lyrics, it was called "Two Lips" and was more educational- Instead of "I can make you feel special" the lyrics went "everybody's got two lips, count 'em one, count 'em two". It was really meant as a pre-pilot for audience feedback, and a few of us from that reading ended up in the Broadway production.

What's interesting about doing a reading is that you have performers at music stands with books in hand and you're doing very minimal staging, it's really just about getting the material across, so we didn't try and hide the puppeteers the way you would on Sesame Street or a television show, because it was so casual... we were just out there with the puppets. It was only about the material, characters and songs and not about the staging. After this first reading the response was overwhelming, people would come up and say "what a brilliant choice to show the puppeteers do their work, it was just so unique and different and groundbreaking!" It was a total accident. We never meant for that to be a creative choice, it was just the nature of the reading situation.

It was very obvious after the early readings that this should be a stage show. Keeping the puppeteers visible became much more practical, safer, and cheaper because you didn't have to dig pits into the stage, you could have a much wider range of movement, you could see where you were going, there were no holes to fall into... it made sense. To not have the puppeteer's face obscured with puppets that didn't have legs had not been done before. We made no bones about the fact that these were television-style puppets, it was all very serendipitous.

JA: Were you always meant to be the Peter Sellers of the show by playing multiple roles?

SD: It started that way because they didn't want to have a big group of people, and it was maintained that way because it's much cheaper to have four puppeteers rather than eight. Plus we'd been doing multiple roles on Sesame Street all the time. That goes way back to Jim Henson doing Kermit, Ernie, Rowlf the Dog, and Dr. Teeth. Frank Oz and Jerry Nelson certainly did dozens and dozens of characters at a time. The nature of puppetry is such that you're not limited by your one face and what that face presents to the audience, when you're a Muppet performer you're accustomed to double-duty. It's one of the reasons I wanted to be a Muppet performer, and it came in very handy in this situation. It was a happy side-effect.

JA: Just to derail for a moment, did you grow up watching The Muppet Show and Sesame Street, or was it something else that got you interested in puppetry?

SD: I was born in 1971 so I came of age during the Golden Era of Sesame Street when it was really hitting its stride. I learned to read at a very young age thanks to Sesame Street and The Electric Company. I was definitely a PBS kid growing up. I was also a fan of The Muppet Show and their movies, then you hit that phase in high school where it's not cool anymore. I rediscovered them in college not only as a fan but also looking at what they were doing as puppeteers with a performer's eye. You never think of who is performing them as a kid, you just believe those characters are real. I don't know if you remember Dynamite Magazine, but they did an issue about The Muppet Movie and I remember this kid in our class saying "oh my God! Miss Piggy is played by a man?!"

JA: For me it was "Miss Piggy is the guy who directed What About Bob??!"

SD: (laughs) Well when I was a kid What About Bob? was many years from being in the can. With the exception of the occasional article, there hadn't been much written about the behind-the-scenes life of the Muppets. There was a British documentary, Of Muppets and Men, that came out when The Muppet Show exploded in popularity, but I didn't come across that until I was in college. In college I was sort of running away from being a performer, but still drawn to it and not knowing how to combine all of these things I loved about performing. I was a Radio/ TV/ Film major in college, not wanting to throw my life away being a Theater major, and seeing the Muppets made me really begin to pursue puppetry as a career by building horrible looking puppets and doing an independent study project, just to see if I could do it.

Muppets work off of a television monitor so that they can see their entire performance, but it's the opposite of working in a mirror- So when you move to your right it's camera-left. That takes some time to learn, but I did it in college when the stakes were low just to see if I had any raw ability to do it. I worked at it and enjoyed it, and began taking it much more seriously and seeing it as a possibility. I was really narrow in my thinking. I'm grateful that things transpired to get me in the door with Henson.

JA: Did you have any idea in mind of where your degree in Radio/ TV/ Film might take you before that happened?

SD: Interestingly enough, when I first started I was thinking about children's television. I went back to watching Sesame Street because I was working in day camps and babysitting in high school... it was a combination of the nostalgic blanket you wrap yourself in when you're in college, but also thinking writing and producing children's television is something I'd want to do. As much as I wanted to run away from performing, I really couldn't shake it. Everyone around me in college wanted to direct, so I knew I didn't want to do that... just to avoid being like everyone else. Calling yourself a writer meant that you were going to write screenplays and nothing else, and everyone who didn't want to direct wanted to do that. It was a matter of trying to do something different.

JA: Who is your favorite Muppet?

SD: There's so many elements of all the characters that I absolutely love that it's impossible to pick just one! I love Rowlf the Dog, Fozzie Bear, and Sam the Eagle. Grover was a favorite when I was younger, Bert and Ernie are fantastic... any bit between a Jim character and a Frank character are brilliant pairings. Kermit and Fozzie. There's a great pairing between Rowlf the Dog and Sam the Eagle on The Muppet Show singing "Tit Willow". It's so dry and perfect. My husband is the President of The Jim Henson Legacy, and he said that if you meld all the Muppets together they create one normal person.

JA: I was just listening to Kevin Pollak's Chat Show and John Landis was his guest talking about being in the pit for the final scene of The Muppet Movie playing Grover, and how he found out years later that Tim Burton was next to him playing a character pointing to and talking about him being the director of Animal House.

SD: That's true! A wonderful piece of trivia that most people have never heard.

JA: So what was it like joining the cast of Sesame Street and working with the live performers you grew up with?

SD: To meet them was really incredible! Jim Henson and Richard Hunt both passed while I was in college so I never got to meet either of them. It would almost be five years before I met Dave Goelz, and a few years before I got to really work with Frank Oz as a performer. To meet Jerry Nelson, Caroll Spinney, Martin Robinson, and Kevin Clash was glorious stuff... but the real thrill was the first time meeting Roscoe Orman, Bob McGrath, Emilio Delgado and Sonia Manzano. I remember the first time hearing them say my name I felt like I was three again.

I have a question for you. Have you seen Willie Dynamite?

JA: I don't think I have.

SD: It's a blaxploitation film starring Roscoe Orman, you must see that movie! He made it right before he came on Sesame Street. It was around 1998 and the film had been out of print for many years and someone brought in a VHS copy that they taped off of Cinemax in like 1981, so we ordered lunch and they played it over the feed and we sat in the arbor of Sesame Street and watched it on the monitors with the cast and crew. Roscoe was touched and thrilled by this. What we didn't know is that the feed was playing the film in the Sesame Workshop offices in Manhattan, where they were probably wondering why Gordon was slapping a hooker.

I saw Bob McGrath in concert when I was three. I remember meeting him and I was very shy. That's one of my earliest memories. He's very supportive and has come to see many of the things I've done, including my cabaret debut at Birdland. And of course he also came to Avenue Q... most of the live cast did, actually. That whole live cast is just something. I think Sesame Street is such an anomaly in that it's one of the few scripted, non-soap opera shows that has been on the air this long. What the show does is so specialized, and once you're there you don't wanna leave. It's a special place.

It's a very specific kind of work, and it is "work". It's challenging work, which is why we embrace the fun. Television can be pretty grueling. With HD, every little thing that goes wrong is amplified. You have to embrace the fun where you can find it.

Photo by Paul McGinnis/ Courtesy of StephanieDabruzzo.com

JA: Are you excited that Jason Segel is involved in writing the new Muppet movie?

SD: People are very excited about it coming out, and I'm excited that there's this whole new generation of kids who are going to get to see the characters in this big way. Jason seems to be a huge Muppet fan and it's clearly been done with a great deal of admiration for the characters. I'm very curious to see it when it comes out.

JA: I was listening to an interview with Mark Hamill recently, and Kevin Smith asked him if he ever got sick of being asked about Star Wars- His response was "Let me put it this way- I love ice cream almost more than anything, but I don't want to eat it three times a day." Do you ever feel that way about Avenue Q?

SD: I'm not sick of it. I'm thrilled and surprised and very glad to know that it's as relevant today to people as it was when we opened the show more than eight years ago. It's staggering how much time has passed. I love the fact that it's something that has made a difference to many people and that I was involved with it at all. My only problem is when it's the only thing people want to talk to you about, or when you're defined as that and nothing else. As an actor and someone who wants to do so many other things, that can get frustrating. Someone as brilliant as Mark Hamill, who has had such a fantastic voiceover career doesn't want your first question to be about Luke Skywalker unless your second question is about the Joker. The work he's done in voiceovers is as good as anything he's ever done in the Star Wars franchise.

JA: Did you see him in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back playing Cock-Knocker?

SD: Oh absolutely! In 1997, when they re-released the original Star Wars trilogy, a bunch of us who were working on The Wubbulous World of Dr. Seuss at the time were lined up at the Ziegfeld Theater, and some of us had our Muppet jackets on. This guy walks by and says to us "Hey, is this the line for Jedi?" He was halfway down the block before we realized it was Mark Hamill! He was in town to do Saturday Night Live that week. I love that he had that sense of humor about it.

JA: What goal do you see yourself working towards right now? Do you have your own personal Everest you want to climb?

SD: I've been keeping my feet wet with off-Broadway while still doing Sesame Street and really going wherever the work is. It gets harder as one gets older, and if there is a Mt. Everest it's to not leave Earth having only done this one thing, as far as Broadway is concerned. I would love to do more theater, television and film. It's easy to have big dreams, but the pragmatic side of it is to simply just make a living as a performer. That's already easier said than done. Keeping an open mind and heart about things is how Avenue Q came along. If I had any inkling that what happened with Avenue Q was going to happen in those first readings I wouldn't have believed it, and if the powers that be had known then I probably wouldn't have been asked to continue. They would have called in Kristin Chenoweth.

Photo courtesy of StephanieDabruzzo.com

Sometimes there are happy accidents that we stumble into, and you never know where the next happy accident is going to come from. I've been lucky enough to keep doing fun projects. The York Theatre here in Manhattan, which interestingly enough is the place where we had our first Avenue Q readings, has a series called Musicals in Mufti where it's a little bit like Encores! but not nearly as big of a budget, where they put on productions of lesser known and lesser performed musicals. They're done book-in-hand with typically one weekend of performances.

I was lucky enough to do The Mad Show, which is based on Mad Magazine, and in a couple of weeks I am going to be doing Tomfoolery which is the musical revue of Tom Lehrer's music. I've been a fan of Tom Lehrer ever since he wrote "Silent E" for The Electric Company. If going where the work takes me means that I'm not a big star, well then that's the way it is. There are so many amazing performers out there who are not household names, but it certainly does not diminish the power of their performance or the level of their talent.

Looking at the Muppet performers, someone like Jerry Nelson who played The Count and was the Veterinarian's Hospital and Pigs In Space announcer... most wouldn't know his face if he walked down the street, but it doesn't make him any less endearing to those who do know who he is and who do love him. Performers can have a lot more impact than they think without necessarily being well known. We live in a fame-driven society and when people say they want to be a star they don't always want to be an actor, they just want to be well-known. I think fame is a horrible thing. If you want to perform, fame can certainly help you. I want to be well-known enough to get work easily. I want to be just famous enough to not have to hustle.

A lot of people don't understand that there are many ways to make a living as a performer. Commercials, voice-overs, regional theater... you're not going to make a good living doing it, but anyone who goes into acting for the money is going to be sorely disappointed anyway. The work is few and far between. There are so many contracts where you can make more on unemployment than you can make doing certain Equity shows. I don't do it because I have some greater goal to humanity in mind, I do it because I love doing it more than anything else. I also really don't have a lot of other marketable skills. If only I'd taken that bartending mini-course in college.

JA: Well I have news for you, you ARE a household name. My friend Sarah Daniels just performed your role in a Theatre Downtown Orlando production of Avenue Q and this thing sold out night after night. Her interpretation was unique and brilliant, she made it her own, but the fact is that all of these variations of the show simply do not exist without your groundbreaking performance that everyone connected with in the first place. I know girls who have taken "There's a Fine, Fine Line" to auditions for all sorts of roles because of the emotion you brought to it, and I certainly fell in love with your performance years ago when I moved to Orlando and heard the album for the first time. So don't sell yourself short.

SD: Whether or not I originated it, that is a darn good song! I'm lucky I was able to perform it. I could never have planned that.

JA: What do you think is the best piece of advice you've ever received when it comes to pursuing acting or a career in general?

SD: There's no real good "how-to", the path is different for everyone. It's very difficult to give a definitive answer to that. The most important things to remember are to show up on time, be prepared, be a decent person, treat your cast and crew with respect and integrity, and in general it is far more important to be a better person than it is to be a good actor. There are a lot of great actors out there who you don't want to spend five minutes with. The best people I've met are the people who don't just have talent, but they have integrity, kindness, and grace. These are the people I am honored to have crossed paths with, even for the shortest periods of time. When it's all said and done, it doesn't matter how high you can belt, where you went to school, or what kind of training you have... it's really about living a good life and doing collaborative work.

I think a lot of people forget that acting is collaborative. We don't forget that at Muppets because we're working together in a pit all the time. Often there's two or three puppeteers on one character, it's constantly collaborative. A lot of kids who go into acting think it's a solitary thing because they're not seeing an ensemble of people on the cover of a magazine, they're seeing a celebrity. An actor cannot be an island if they want to be successful... or at least successful in life. Now, if you wanna be a bastard that's a whole other kettle of fish and I can't help you there.

The first time Avenue Q was up and running, my mother was absolutely shocked that we'd do shows on a Sunday. "You're doing a show on Easter Sunday?!" There's no such thing as holidays or a sacred day. I've missed weddings, funerals, and family obligations because you get tied to your work. You can't be reliable in life when the show must go on. You have to be willing to sacrifice those things and know why you're doing it. I'm lucky that the people in my life have grown to understand the crazy life that I lead, you never know when the work is going to come or not come.

Fame can't be your motivation to do something. Frank Oz said something great once, that he had the best of both worlds because he "got to do really great work with really great people to do really high profile stuff... but if you've gotta go to the store to get a can of beans, you go to the store to get a can of beans." There's something to be said for the ability to go to the store to get a can of beans.

The best part about getting to do the stuff that I've done has really been to work, meet, and chat with the people that I have a very deep respect for. When you find out that that person is also a decent person to boot, that's just gravy.

Creating Q*bert: A Conversation with Warren Davis

2011-11-10T17:21:00.001-08:00

Jason Anders: When I was a kid, I had this little wind-up Q*bert toy that was my favorite thing in the world. At some point I lost it and I made my dad completely turn our garage upside down looking for it. I never found it and it was the most devastating thing to happen in my life up to that point.

Warren Davis: I'm thankful for your Q*bert obsession. Certainly back in the day when Q*bert was new, it wasn't surprising to meet people who liked the game and were very appreciative. It was a reward for me when people enjoyed the game. In the 90s came this nostalgia for arcade games which was astonishing to those of us in the industry, we never thought that would happen.

Nowadays it's really mixed because there's so many people who weren't alive for those early arcade games and have never heard of them. Of course they've heard of Pac-Man and Frogger, but Q*bert is one of those that doesn't quite get remembered as much. Sometimes I run into people who say "I love Q*bert!" and others who say "what's that?" It keeps you humble.

JA: Looking at the design of those characters, one has to wonder where in the world the idea came from- Do you remember what inspired the look and design?

WD: They came from the mind of graphic artist Jeff Lee. He created all of those characters for some other game. Generally, back in those days, programmers were the game designers. At Gottlieb it was the programmers who were really considered to be the project leads and people in charge. Jeff was the only artist for every game. The artist was there as a support person to provide the graphic you needed.

The whole beginning of Q*bert was an evolutionary experience. I was a new guy at Gottlieb and this was my first job in video games, and I had worked as a support programmer on another game. I had also worked on the diagnostics software that was built into each arcade cabinet so that the operator could run tests. I had paid my dues in a sense, learning the hardware, and had sort of learned what was going on. It was time for me to come up with a concept... which I didn't have. What I did have was this inspiration of seeing somebody else working on this Escher pattern, where they filled the screen with it and it looked like a screen full of cubes. When I looked at it, in my mind's eye I saw this pyramid where you had a random path for each ball to drop... basically looking at it as a programming exercise.

So it starts with a pyramid, and balls bouncing down it. Once I figured that out and got it working, the next question was about having a player character jumping around in this play field. That's when I went to Jeff and asked if he had characters I could use. He showed me all these characters he had created for a game no one had been interested in, and I said "do you mind if I use that guy with the long nose?" In Jeff's mind this guy had a long nose because he was going to shoot things out of it. I wasn't interested in a character that could shoot things out of its nose, I just needed him to jump around on the pyramid. Ugg and Wrong-Way, who would come from different angles (who's gravity was different than Q*bert's by the way), also came before any kind of game element. These characters all came from Jeff's crazy mind, there were no character descriptions when the game started.

JA: At what point in life does the split happen in your mind that you become both interested in the technical side of video game design as well as becoming an actor? Which came first?

WD: I will say that as a kid I was outgoing, but I had no aspirations to become an actor. I don't think that ever entered my mind. What I did have a desire to be was a filmmaker, and as a teenager I used to make Super 8 films. I was also a big lover of monster movies and actually learned how to do all sorts of monster makeup... I bought the kits and transformed myself into a werewolf, mummy, and a vampire and we made movies about it. I acted in these movies but it wasn't because of my desire to be an actor, it was because of my desire to be a filmmaker. I directed films with my friends in high school as well, but had no desire to join the drama club.

When it came to college I had two choices in mind as a career path, filmmaking or computers. I ran a computer in my high school at the time which was the size of a full desk back before the PC had been invented. My parents and guidance counselor steered me towards computers because filmmaking was not a real career. In college there was a theater club that put on some really amazing productions and had some really talented people involved, including my friend. He dragged me to an audition my senior year and I ended up getting cast and having the most amazing time. To step out on stage and get the applause during the curtain call is the most incredible feeling. It's kind of like a drug.

I didn't take acting serious as a career, though... I just did it for fun. As I started my career as an engineer I moved around from town to town, and wherever I went I tried getting involved in the local community theater scene. I eventually realized engineering wasn't for me and I quit my job living in suburban Illinois just outside of Chicago- I wanted to join Second City and started taking improv classes. I basically became an unemployed improv actor, and I started constantly checking the want ads for engineering jobs. Eventually, Gottlieb advertised a job for a video game programmer... I almost didn't want to do it, I wrestled with it because I had made this commitment to start performing with a comedy group because I really thought that's where my future was going to be. I decided "what the hell" and applied.

I got that job and also continued doing improv comedy, I even eventually took a two-year acting class around the same time that I started at Gottlieb, so I was on a dual track from the beginning.

JA: How involved did you get with Second City?

WD: Nowadays there's a Second City training center, back then it didn't exist and if you wanted to get on stage you had to take classes at a place called the The Player's Workshop of Second City. That's where I ended up studying, I completed it and did a couple of children's shows on their stage. After that I got together with a few friends and we started performing improv and sketch comedy at different venues in Chicago. I never really tried to get into the Second City company. It became too much about who's funnier. It's not supposed to be about that, improv is about making the other person look good. It's about teamwork.

JA: Who were your favorite comedians who originally made you want to do improv?

WD: It was around 1978 when I first came to Chicago there were people like Mary Gross and George Wendt who were unknowns and working on the Second City stage. Shelley Long had just studied there a couple years earlier. I loved watching them work because they were hysterically funny and I admired what they did.

JA: Did you get the same fulfillment from making video games that you felt from being on the stage?

WD: Yes, absolutely. It was very satisfying. When I was in college was when Pong, Space War, and all those early black & white arcade games came out. Space Invaders, Tank, Missile Command, and Breakout were all games that I played in the arcades as more of them were springing up. And of course you had Pac-Man which took the characters to color and made them more cartoony, and it really started to evolve. The idea of making video games really appealed to me as a computer engineer, but I thought it would really be a dream job that you'd have to be a genius to land. For some reason I just felt that was out of my grasp. It was a complete shock to see that ad in the paper looking for video game programmers.

When Q*bert got to the testing stage they would put out a generic mock-up cabinet in an arcade and people would play it with us there. To see people come and really enjoy the game that you've just created, even though it's anonymous and they don't know who you are, it's incredibly rewarding. It's kind of the same as getting that applause at the end of a play.

JA: Just like you find the Universal Monsters classic I think most gamers find Q*bert iconic in the same way. Even the Guinness Book of World Records ranked the game in the top 20 for technical, creative, and cultural impact.

WD: I didn't know that! Electronic Gaming Monthly a few years ago came out with a list of the top 200 games of their time, and Q*bert was on the cover of the magazine in a collage of characters, but he wasn't on the list! I was stunned because it was one of the top games of its time.

JA: It also spawned every toy imaginable, he even had his own cartoon on CBS. What were your thoughts about that show where it had Q*bert in high school?

WD: Anything that enhanced Q*bert's standing in the public I thought was a good thing. Gottlieb was really on top of marketing and merchandising, and I really thought that was astonishing. As far as the cartoon itself, somebody had to give it a story. We weren't involved in that in any way, and I didn't spend a whole lot of time watching it.

JA: Do you have any of the old Q*bert merchandise in your house?

WD: I have one of the engineering cabinets, so I have the arcade game. I also have a Q*bert plush toy. At one point I had a lot more stuff, and I have no idea where it disappeared to.

JA: Did you ever play any of the new Q*bert games they made, like Q*bert 3 for Super Nintendo?

WD: I know that Jeff Lee was involved in a few of those games, but I had never been involved in any of them. He was an artist for the SNES one. There was some sort of trade show that I went to where I ran into some people from Hasbro and they were talking about doing a PC version of the game. They told me they wanted me to be involved, but what I think they meant is that they wanted me to just give it their blessing. Nothing really came about me being involved in the subsequent versions. I do believe, though, that I was the person who told Sony that they owned the rights to Q*bert at another trade show for games. Gottlieb was owned by Columbia Pictures, and Columbia was bought by Sony, and they didn't realize before then that they owned the rights.

JA: So tell me the story behind Q*bert's speech balloon.

WD: David Thiel, who was the sound designer, had this voice chip- The state of the art of voice chips at the time were these things that basically put out phonemes. As a programmer you had to string together the phonemes in order to make words. It sounded terrible, and Dave thought it sounded terrible. Rather than have Q*bert actually say things in this crazy, mechanical, unrealistic voice, he thought it would be funnier if he spoke in random gibberish. Basically whenever Q*bert speaks it's just randomly putting phonemes together. The odds of him saying something offensive are pretty low, but not zero. There was no real public outcry about it.

JA: I've read that you weren't able to collect royalties on Q*bert?

WD: There were no royalty programs in place at Gottlieb, and no one expected there to be because there never had been. After Q*bert Gottlieb released M.A.C.H. 3 on laserdisc and it was very successful, and the company decided to put a royalty program in place. The problem was that it was not retroactive. Q*bert was not part of that... however, if it were, I've been told that I would have earned $100,000.00 in royalties. They wanted to do right by me and they gave me a $20,000.00 bonus, I was young and just starting a family and that was a lot of money to me. It's only money.

JA: What can you tell me about Faster, Harder, More Challenging Q*bert?

WD: We developed Q*bert in 1982 and they went into production at the very end of the year, it was filtered into arcades mostly in 1983. In the tuning of the game a lot of people at Gottlieb found it very hard. The initial response from people in arcades was that is was really hard, so I started tuning it making it easier and easier so that people wouldn't be angered by it or lose their quarters too fast. It became clear once it was released that some people could just play it for hours upon hours. It became clear that it might be hard in the beginning, but once people get the hang of it it becomes too easy.

My response to that was to basically create a retooled version where we restructured the levels and we added one character who was a replacement for Coily the snake- Basically it was a female version of Q*bert who would chase after him because she loved him, she had little hearts coming out of her. The discs were no longer stationary, they would move off the pyramid. When people would ask me what the point of having this new version of the game was when I had a successful version already in the arcade I would just say that it's faster, harder, and more challenging... so that's what we eventually called it. We didn't want to call it Super Q*bert or Q*bert 2, those sounded too pedestrian... we had a sense of humor back then.

We actually did put it out into arcades but it was too soon. People found it too hard and it was competing with the original game that was still in arcades and doing well. I thought we could just hold onto it and release it a year later, I don't know why that didn't happen. Everybody just moved onto different things, but it was always my favorite. I had the roms for it in my Q*bert cabinet back home, and it stayed there for about fifteen years or so and in the 90s while working at Disney I came across MAME (Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator) where you could play these arcade games on your PC. It wasn't just a version of it, they emulated the hardware so that you were playing the actual roms.

They had done an emulator for the Q*bert hardware, so I gave them Faster, Harder, More Challenging and they released it, so now it's available to the public. I feel very good that it finally got released.

JA: Do you ever get tired of people asking you about Q*bert?

WD: I don't, but that's because it doesn't happen that often. I don't get to talk about it that often so I'm very happy to talk about it when the opportunities arise. Once every year or two I'll get an interview request. I'm very proud of it and gratified that something I did so long ago is still being considered relevant. It's been 30 years almost! It's so astonishing to me and I'm very grateful for the response to it.

JA: Did you ever see the Q*bert reference on Family Guy?

WD: Wait a minute, I've only seen The Simpsons reference, I didn't realize Family Guy did one as well.

JA: Yeah, Stewie is Q*bert's roommate and he can't sleep because Q*bert is jumping all around him. He's trying to fall asleep on the pyramid and he says "God, it's all night with this guy. Hey if you're going to leave all those lights on I'm not going to split the electric bill!" It's really funny.

So what are you working on at the moment?

WD: I'm doing a lot of things, honestly. I do love acting so I'm doing that, also some stage directing as well as some film directing. I'd like to go back and become a little bit of a filmmaker now that it's done so much on computers, that's sort of what I've been waiting for all my life. I've been dabbling in it the past few years making short films.

I also have been doing some software projects as they come up and interest me. I'm not particularly interested in where the gaming industry has gone, but every once in a while I have ideas that I think might be worth exploring. One of the nice things that Q*bert has done for me is that I don't have that burning need to prove myself. I'm not hungry, but I've also never been a hugely ambitious person. It's unclear what the future holds for me, and right now I am just indulging myself and doing things for fun.

JA: Just in talking about directing films, what would you say are three of your favorite movies of all time?

WD: I think Casablanca is one of the most amazing films ever made. It's a timeless film that speaks to every generation. I love the Marx Brothers, Star Wars, The Silent Partner... I'd have to think for hours to pick just three.

I also love a film called The Stunt Man from 1980. It's a strange little movie that spoke to me in a huge way. It seems like such an unconventional film but it works on so many levels. I was very fortunate in that I got to meet the director of that movie, Richard Rush. I did a 72 hour filmmaking competition where you have to write, cast, shoot, edit, score, and come back with a finished movie three days later- I did this with a bunch of friends and we won first prize. Richard Rush was one of the judges. We weren't supposed to talk to him, but I told him what a fan I was and he invited me to sit down and talk with him for about twenty minutes. It was amazing because I just admired what he did so much.

JA: What key moment stands out to you since the release of Q*bert as being the most special in terms of reference to what you created?

WD: My fondest memory would be the first time I saw it referenced outside of the video game world, and that was in a movie called Moscow on the Hudson with Robin Williams. In this movie Robin Williams's character is sort of dejected or sad, and he's playing Q*bert. You see Q*bert jump off the pyramid. I didn't know that was coming and was just like "oh my God!", it was kind of a shocker in a good way.

JA: And my last question, do you ever pop out NBA JAM: Tournament Edition and play as yourself?

WD: (laughs) It's funny you mention that, the last time I did that was in New Hampshire two years ago visiting the biggest arcade in the world, and they had every one of my games. I saw some games there that I had not seen in years! The Us vs. Them laserdisc game, Joust 2 which I hadn't seen in years, and NBA JAM: Tournament Edition. That was the last time I played as myself, and my God I've aged. People in arcades were always blown away when I would pull up a player with my head, I had a lot of fun with that back in those days.

JA: I used to always play your Aerosmith game, Revolution X, at the movie theater arcade as a kid.

WD: Having Aerosmith come to our offices and blue screen studio was an amazing blast! We shot a behind-the-scenes video of them for that day which was cut into a promotional video. I was doing the clapboard that day. The most surreal moment that day was standing at the urinal next to Tom Hamilton and we're chatting. They were such awesome people, great to hang out with, and a lot of fun. All the guys were calling up their girlfriends and passing the phone to Steven Tyler. It was a real fun time.

A Conversation with Malcolm McDowell

2011-10-11T16:25:00.000-07:00

A Conversation with Barry Bostwick

2011-10-11T16:09:00.000-07:00

Three Years of Spooky Empire

2011-10-11T15:57:00.000-07:00

A Conversation with William Katt

2011-10-11T15:31:00.000-07:00

Courage My Love: A Conversation with Mercedes Arn-Horn

2011-09-06T04:04:00.000-07:00

The Fulle Interview with CML's Mercedes Arn-Horn

(click below to play)

Jason Anders: It's Labor Day, but I'm in the Christmas mood because I just listened to your cover of "I'll Be Home For Christmas" and it's so awesome! You guys are blowing up before you even release your first album.

Mercedes Arn-Horn: Oh, really? Thanks so much, that's awesome! I guess it's all in the way you look at it, but it feels good to have all these fans on Twitter who are enjoying the music. We're happy about it.

JA: Let's start with the genesis of your song "I Sell Comics" and Walt Flanagan- How did that come about? Were you already listening to "Tell 'Em Steve-Dave"?

MA: David's friend listened to them a lot and said "hey, you should send your stuff in!" We sent it in not thinking we'd get a response, and we got one. It was great!

JA: Have you acquired a lot more Twitter followers and fans based on that song?

MA: Oh yeah, so much more than we thought we were going to. It was such a great experience. We didn't think that the "Tell 'Em Steve-Dave" guys were going to be that into it, we were really happy that they were. We got a lot of responses from their fans as well as our fans, so it was great.

JA: Are you actually a fan of comic books?

MA: I definitely am! Walt actually wrote the lyrics to that song, but we're all HUGE comic book fans.

JA: Do you have a favorite comic book hero?

MA: For me it's hard to choose between X-Men and Batman.

JA: Our producer Brittany is wondering what you call those fries in Canada with the gravy...

MA: It's called poutine- We love it, they have the BEST poutine in Ottawa. We just went, it's called Smoke's Poutinerie, it's fries, bacon, cheese, and whatever else you want to put on it, like jalapenos and pulled pork, it's so good!

JA: Sounds SO good. Have you guys ever been to a comic convention?

MA: When I was younger we went to a couple in Toronto, we didn't get to go this year because we were doing some studio stuff, but I loved it. I didn't dress up or anything, but all the comics and people there were just awesome. It was so fun.

JA: Who would you dress up as if you were going to get decked out?

MA: I'd probably go as Colossus from X-Men and have metal skin, because I have unlimited funds.

JA: So what made you originally decide to get into music? Do you remember the first record you heard that made you say "get me a guitar, I wanna play!"?

MA: One of the first shows I ever went to when I was eleven was an Alice Cooper concert, and that really inspired me- All the theatrics, he had a guillotine and actually got executed onstage, he also had snakes and dancers and everything. That was a bit over the top but really inspired me. After that I got really into heavier bands. So I think that my parents and a couple of teachers are to blame because they were really into bands like Sex Pistols and Bob Marley, that sort of thing really influenced me a lot.

JA: Do you think you'll eventually start incorporating a guillotine onstage with you?

MA: (laughs) Maybe, you never know. I do love the theatrics, but we don't even have fire in our show yet.

JA: I heard you had an interesting run-in with Gene Simmons...

MA: He came to Toronto and we showcased for him with two other bands, I think. It's really cool because he's kind of an icon and it was awesome that we got to meet him. The highlight of this story is that after the show, my sister Phoenix and I got to meet him. He asked if she would sit on his lap... she declined, gracefully.

JA: The same thing happened to us when we tried to interview Gary Busey, he said he'd do an interview for $5,000.00 and if Mary, our photographer, would sit on his lap. She also gracefully declined. So tell me about the origins of your band name, who decided to name it after the movie THINGS TO COME?

MA: That movie is awesome! I can't remember if it was Phoenix or it was me, but I think we both came to that decision simultaneously. We really wanted a positive band name because a lot of band names seem to be on the negative side, even if the band is a positive band. So we were searching for a name that didn't sound too lame. We were watching THINGS TO COME at one of those old re-run theaters, and when the line came out were both just like "that's the name. It's perfect."

JA: What are your five favorite songs and/or records of all time?

MA: There's so many! I'm really influenced by Oh, Sleeper. I don't have their new album yet, but I've heard two songs from it and it's really good. I really like the album WHEN I AM GOD. I'm also influenced by BRAND NEW EYES, Paramore's album. I really like pretty much anything that Four Year Strong puts out. I love a lot of older bands too, like The Ramones. I like the song SHEENA IS A PUNK ROCKER. I really like the Sex Pistols. I'm a fan of any band that can mix styles, there's too many to choose from.

JA: I don't know how often you listen to S.I.R., but ever since you called in that morning on GET JOBS they've played "I Sell Comics" almost every single day.

MA: Seriously?! That's awesome! I listen to a few of them because I am actually a friend, after David's friend told us to start listening to them. Those guys are so funny! I'm really happy about that. It's definitely helped us out a lot!

JA: You guys are playing Red Bank, NJ soon, right?

MA: We're hoping to get that together soon so that we can come and play on their show. We wrote the song for them to be on that show, they all like it and their fans like it, we all like it and our fans like it... so hopefully the producers like it too and it will be on the show. It's not up to them anymore, I don't think, it's up to the producers of the show whether it gets on or not... hopefully we get greenlit, too.

JA: What are you discussing as far as upcoming tour dates?

MA: If the whole New Jersey thing works out we want to make a few stops along the way and go to a few different places like New York. It's all in the works but I can't say we have any specific dates yet. Hopefully it works out for October.

JA: Are you guys under a label or agency yet?

MA: We've had a few offers, but we're waiting and looking for the right one. We want a deal that suits our band. We want to keep creative control of all our music, Phoenix and I write all of it. We do have a manager/ producer team, and we want to suit them too in our label search. I'm positive that we're gonna find one soon that will be cool with all our demands. If not, that's okay too. A lot of bands create without labels now.

JA: Since your band name came from such an awesome flick, what are your three favorite movies of all time?

MA: I'd say Edward Sissorhands is probably my favorite. I love everything that Tim Burton does, and I love Johnny Depp & Winona Ryder. Also Pan's Labyrinth by Guillermo de Toro, and I love Sucker Punch. Right after this interview you have to go to Blockbuster and rent Sucker Punch!

JA: If you had to sum up your music with just one word, what word would you use?

MA: I'd say we're very "rebellious". I say that as a band that's improbable... we're a three-piece with two female members, and neither of us play bass, so that's improbably right there. Phoenix is an awesome drummer and really doesn't take no for an answer. I also play the guitar... so I'd say "improbable", too.

JA: Who talked who into starting the band, do you remember?

MA: I think we both really wanted to since I can remember, we've both wanted to be in a band for our entire lives. I don't remember who started that. We've always been writing, even when it was just us two. We wrote rock songs, she wanted to play drums and I wanted to play guitar... we figured something was missing, so we started auditioning bassists. It's always been Phoenix's and my dream.

LISTEN to the FULLE interview podcast with Mercedes Arn-Horn HERE!
Follow @CourageMyLove & @MercedesArnHorn on Twitter!
Visit the CML website at www.ILoveCourageMyLove.com!

A SMonversation with Scott Mosier

2011-05-05T14:36:00.000-07:00

Jason Anders: Since you spend so much time talking on Smodcast, do you do a lot of interviews anymore?

Scott Mosier: I don't do a lot of interviews... it's not me hiding and refusing people, I just don't get a lot of interview requests. I'm not out there searching for them either. It's not really connected to the fact talk so much that I don't think I have to do it, I'm just not really on the hunt to do it.

JA: So what is it like to be essentially the first rock-star podcasters, selling out Hard Rock Live with cheering crowds who come out just to hear your banter?

SM: I guess that is the "rock star" part, but everything else about it doesn't feel that way. If you followed me around with a camera there would be no groupies, crazy sex, drugs, or the rest of that stuff. I still get a little bit anxious to do the actual shows, it's not my natural state of being to be in front of a group of people. It's intoxicating when the crowds are excited, like in Orlando and Pittsburg, you just get this high because everyone in the audience is having fun. You feel like it's an event, and everyone is there to have a good time. I love it.

JA: Did you ever anticipate it catching on or doing live shows like this when you recorded your first episode?

SM: No. I think my expectation when we started doing the podcast was that it would result in more podcasts. My brain never goes towards standing in front of a group of people, that's never my instinctual reaction. It's usually the opposite, like "can we move this into a smaller closet?"

JA: Whatever happened to the background music you used to have? Was it a legal or creative decision to take it out?

SM: At the beginning we questioned whether or not it was too dry to just talk, which I guess at this point the answer is no. I think that Ken adding the music was a fun edition, but for legal reasons now that we're on Sirius XM and all these other venues, if it's just our voices we can claim it as ours.

JA: Let's jump all the way back to when you were just starting out, even before Clerks, and even before going to film school- What originally inspired you to go into filmmaking?

SM: Oh wow, going way back when... I haven't thought about it in a long time. When I was a kid, I was watching Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark, but at that point I was more into the movie as a film-goer and buying the toys. I wanted to be the Jedi, as opposed to making the movie about the Jedi. At a certain point that transition happened, and I guess it's when you become aware of the process, and once you become aware of the process, it either intrigues you or it doesn't. For a lot of people I don't think the process intrigues them at all, they don't go to the movies for that. They go to escape and sort of stay in that place.

A lot of my friends and family are the same way. I don't have a definitive moment for my transition when I was like "I'm gonna be a filmmaker!" I was probably around fifteen when the idea started coming into my head. By the time I turned eighteen I had pretty much decided that I wanted to get into film or animation. I was either going to go to film school or art school. My grades were terrible out of high school, my SATs were awful, so it wasn't like me going "Okay, who wants Scott Mosier?"... nobody wanted Scott Mosier. I found this one little JT down in California while I was living in Vancouver that had a super small film program, and I ended up going there because it was cheap and I could try and get my grades up so that I could go to a bigger school. That didn't happen.

I would just watch movies, read books on film, get bad grades, and skip school... I was not a good student. I was in Los Angeles for about two years and ended up working at a production company for six months... which is fine, but it really didn't excite me that much. I didn't really know what I was going to do, and then I found a film school in Vancouver. My parents were still there, so I could go for ten months and learn the process- Which is what I ended up doing, and that's where I met Kevin Smith and David Klein.

I was not the kid who made short films growing up. It wasn't the Spielberg route, where by the time I was twelve I had shot movies. I was always into it, but not applying it. I also didn't really have friends who were into it in the same way, there was no collective sense of "hey let's go do this thing...", I also never did any practical research on it, I just read and watched movies. In college I watched a ton. It sounds terrible, but by the end of it I just stopped going to class and would watch four or five movies a day. I was just watching as much as I could, I would see anything. I was living around UCLA, and there were four or five theaters you could just walk to, and I'd watch anything- I even saw My Girl with Macaulay Culkin and Where the Boys Are with Bette Midler. I'd be in the theater all day long.

When I went to Vancouver and met Kevin, he was ready to make a movie. I had gone to school to become a writer/ director, that was my path. Without having made any short films I didn't have the sense of what it all meant, so it was more about doing this abstract idea. Of course I wanted to be a writer/ director, that's what everyone wants to do. Kevin had been writing for so long that he knew he wanted to be a writer, he had gone through that experience. It was the same with David Klein who had been shooting photos and stuff, so when the time came he knew what he wanted to do. When the time came I hadn't done any writing or shooting. I sort of slipped into producing, I learned everything I could about every single aspect about making films... that broad education made it easier to become the producer of Clerks, because I had studied what all the aspects were... whether I was good at them or not didn't matter, because I was the one who had studied all sides of it. That was a very long answer.

JA: Did you ever have other careers in mind when you were younger?

SM: I can't remember as a kid if I ever wanted to definitively be a fireman or anything. I think when I was young I had an aspiration to play soccer, but it wasn't that definitive because it wasn't what I really wanted to do. I was really into comic books and movies, and very interested in one of those two things. I either wanted to become a comic book artist or go make movies. I wasn't working that hard at either one, I was just writing and drawing and shit.

I remember jogging around UCLA and decided that I should commit to one or the other, I either needed to get a portfolio together or go to a film school. I used to jog around the outside of the school and decided to cut through the middle where you run up these big steps... they were in that movie Gotcha! with Anthony Edwards. Anyways. I was running up these steps and at the very top there's this bright light, and when my eyes focused I realized they were shooting this short film. That literally is why I went to film school. For somebody who doesn't believe in God or any of the rest of that stuff, it's not that I thought it was a sign, I just wasn't leaning either way. I loved doing both things, and it just became a way to decide. Within a month I had packed up my shit, drove all the way back home, and started school.

When I got out of film school, animation was in my head because it was the blend of the two. I remember dropping off a resume to a small animation studio in Vancouver to be an intern. I left for New Jersey and made Clerks after that.

JA: Were there specific animation directors, movies, or cartoon shorts that got you interested in that side?

SM: I grew up in the world of Saturday morning cartoons, I watched a bunch and it just feels like a blur. It kind of transferred into comic books when I got a little bit older because I still loved the art, but the stories of the Saturday morning cartoons just got boring. I graduated high school in 1989, which was the beginning of the resurgence of Disney animation, right around the time that The Little Mermaid was happening. I remember seeing that movie in a class and writing a paper on it. I went to all the new Disney movies that were coming out at that time. You probably know more about the history of animation than I do. Going out to apply at animation studios back then was completely different than it is today.

JA: Did you have any "hopeless" moments when you first started out making movies, or were you able to maintain staying positive about it?

SM: Because we were so young when we made Clerks we had expectations of what could happen... but if they're too high, most disappointment comes from not reaching the expectations you set upon yourself. I don't think our expectations were so enormous that we could get let down on that first movie. While making the movie there was nothing to put it up against, it was just us doing it. There was no one there to say, "What the f**k are you guys doing? This is never going to work." We were living in our own little bubble. We stayed very present and just made that movie. No one sat down to plan out the next ten years of our careers. If you do that, then everything has to live up against it, and any time that you veer away from your destiny you'll get disappointed. So I don't think there were expectations, but there was hope and desire. We didn't expect anything to happen, but we wanted things to happen. We were looking at what happened to Richard Linklater with Slacker, but our expectations were in check.

When we screened it for the first time and it was a disaster, it wasn't about "Oh f**k, our whole careers are in the toilet", because we didn't have careers. There was no career to speak of. We had gone to other screenings of other people's movies at the IFFM, and we grew these expectations of having a good audience at our screening. None of that happened. We left the screening like "oh f**k." Kevin's response was like "I've got all this debt", you know? Not sitting there going, "My next five movies I had planned out have just gone up in smoke." I remember thinking that maybe all that hope and desire wasn't going to come to fruition on this one, and if that's the case then I'm broke and in debt, and what do I do now?

All of the sudden these phone calls started coming in, and the film sort of took over. It started getting passed around to people and then went to Sundance... it was one of those rare moments where everything exceeded our expectations. It's really a lesson in trying to not have expectations, and just enjoy everything that you're doing. Those times in life where things exceed your expectations are rare, and if you don't have them it'll happen a lot more.

I think there was a sense for a long time, until Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, where there was a feeling that it could all end. Our luck is going to run out. Starting out you feel like an outsider without any experience, but as soon as it didn't feel foreign and intimidating to me it felt like work. As soon as I hit that equilibrium I realized I was probably in for the long haul, and nobody is going to come and take it away. That internal feeling of "I don't know what the f**k I'm doing" and somebody's gonna come in and say "Get the f**k out of here. You don't belong here. You don't know what the f**k you're doing"... that internal monologue went away when I stopped stressing about every little thing and it all balanced out. I didn't know everything, but I had enough knowledge. I had a lot of irrational anxiety that came from learning on the job. Once I'd had enough experience, and had done three or four first days of shooting, then it just went away. I sort of leveled out.

JA: So where do you feel you're at now with writing your script and stepping out of your comfort zone of working with Kevin?

SM: I have definitely stepped out of my comfort zone. It was an itch that I had when I went to school, and I wrote a couple of scripts when I was in college that do not exist... and that's good. I don't know where they are, I don't think anybody has them. They were not good. I wasn't a writer at the time, and I wasn't a filmmaker, so it was all sort of just practice. I got to the point where I can't just sit around and think about it anymore, there comes a point where you just have to do it. If you're gonna do it, you have to commit to it. I had succeeded as a producer, but I had put a lot of hours in. I did not just work a couple hours a week, I worked a lot. I worked a shit-ton. I completely immersed myself in doing that, and learning every aspect of what this person does and what that person does. When I got around to Zack and Miri Make a Porno, I had these ideas I wanted to explore and I hadn't really sat down to write them. I was like, if I don't stop doing what I'm doing and assert the same kind of attitude or put in the same kind of hours, I'm never going to do it... and I'm never going to see whether or not it's something I can do.

When people look at Kevin, they say "oh, he wrote Clerks. That's amazing!" But it's not like he never wrote a word, and then wrote Clerks, you know? That's not what happened. People who never write a word and then start writing, it's just not that simple to be good at it. He had been writing for forever, since he was a kid. By the time he wrote his script he had hours and hours and hours of developing himself as a writer, and developing his voice and all these things. I'm not saying this to take away from him, I'm saying that he worked his ass off while kids like me were running around playing soccer and trying to get laid... I mean, he was trying to get laid too... he was also putting in the time. He was dedicating himself to all this stuff.

I'm a little bit in that place now. All of my experience in making movies and being an editor... even the podcasting stuff, helped me to become a better writer. I can use that experience as a really good foundation for starting to write. Being around a great writer for sixteen years, and having edited so much, I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to tell stories. I've read a ton of scripts and given a ton of notes, so it's like your mind is already working that way. Not just Kevin's scripts, but tons more. Awful scripts that no one's ever heard of or seen. It still makes your mind focus on giving that person notes, so how would this be a good story in my estimation? It's like working out and training your brain... like here's two badminton players and a donkey, and how can you make that into something that's watchable? Sitting there focusing on how to make that a better story just sort of gave me a foundation to start.

I'm still in the process and try to work every day. Trying to keep writing, knowing that the experience is part of the process. Knowing that you have something pretty good, but you can write something better, so I should. Not getting too fixated on something that's pretty good and a learning experience. Now I can spend the next year turning that into something better, or just start from scratch... applying everything that I've learned, and put in the new ideas.

JA: I think what is so cool about Smodcast preparing you to write is that it has also been a fuel to many other fires, including my own as I write... as well as an inspiration to who knows how many others out there interested in storytelling and filmmaking.

SM: From a writing standpoint you're forced to tell a story of "hey I went to go buy groceries"... how do you turn that into an actual story, as opposed to me just saying that I drove there, got out of the car, and went in there. It forces your brain into figuring out how to make that an actual story that people might find compelling. To me, that's a lot of what it means to write. It's not about telling it exactly as it happened, and I'm not saying you lie, but how do you use your language to turn it into something that's more compelling. Not just the standard reporting of what happened. Sitting around trying to tell stories or jokes, it's that aspect of doing the podcast, or trying to make Kevin laugh... it's like telling your brain to do something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

It all feels like exercise, and not in a bad way. But by the end of it I think there's this residual benefit to it that you're maybe not intentionally thinking about, but it's coming through. It's also getting used to the idea of just throwing it out there. On stage it is even more so, where you throw something out and it's either going to work or it's going to burn, and no one's going to laugh. You reach the point where when it crashes and burns that you just go to the next thing. It reduces the sense of internalizing things and thinking "should I say this? Or this?" You get more loose with your ideas where you just throw them out there to be pissed on.

One of the hurdles I felt early on was always wanting to present your best side. You want to present the perfect idea. That's way too precious, and you start that process and it's fear of rejection that makes it hard. You want that validation. Validation makes it easy to keep going, but rejection makes you think "what do I do now?" You have to get past that point. You just have to be able to throw it out there, and know that some people are going to like it and some people won't. They'll say it sucks. What you gain in the long run is that it keeps your mind churning. If you internalize everything and only try and cherry-pick what you're gonna say, you're going to miss out. You're going to get too precious about it. Throw it out to your friends, or anybody, but don't hold onto it and protect it and wait for the perfect moment. Especially in this business... you may sit there and go "I have the best idea ever", and there are most likely eight scripts out there that are just like it.

I know people that will spend two years writing a script, and I have to say there are four movies out there so close to it that no one is going to do it. It's like you've isolated yourself, and now you've come out and the world is supposed to be so excited, but the world has been going on for the last two years, and there's thousands of people who are just throwing ideas at the wall all day long. You have to learn to compete in that environment.

JA: To close out the conversation, what advice do you have for someone who has a script that they want to get out there and is just now getting started?

SM: Well as far as how to sell it, get an agent, and all that stuff... honestly it's very hard for me to give that advice because at the particular stage I'm at right now, I've been in the business for seventeen years... so I could tell you "hey, you should go produce for Kevin Smith for seventeen years." It's hard for me to say what you should do starting from ground zero.

The one thing I'll say is to think about reality. You're sitting at home writing a script, no one gives a shit. I don't mean that in a mean way, but no one gives a shit. When I hear people say "I've been watching movies and R-rated comedies" and they're speculating on what they should do here and there, or they say "I don't know, I think the vampire thing is over." They are trying to make a decision on what to write based on making it strategic. Making the decision to write a script based on what's hot. Look, no one gives a shit. You can write whatever you want. And right now, you should write whatever you want because you'll probably write a better script. It's just a fact, and why not have fun? Why burn yourself down?

All that strategy to me is like... look, if it was as simple as that, where everybody just goes and watches some movies and reads the trades and is just like "you know what? I know what it is! I'll write a vampire/ werewolf comedy." If it was as simple as that to succeed, then everyone would just be doing that. The only thing that you have going for you right now is the fact that no one gives a shit. That is kind of in your favor. You are you, and only you can be you. Write something that excites you. You take that element away... your lack of experience needs to be propped up by something else. Your lack of experience in writing is not going to be propped up because you read Variety, or that you've analyzed the industry and have decided what they need right now. The only thing you can prop it up with is that you're excited. Your own excitement is all you really have.

You have nothing to lose. Write what you want, write what excites you. Don't try and figure out what you "should" do. If you write something that manages to get into the hands of certain people, and it gets out here and somebody makes it into a movie or doesn't make it into a movie, then your life may become about "not" writing what you want to. It's going to be about writing what people are paying you to do. Now's the time to write what you want to. Where to go from there is a very tough question, because there's so many answers. If you take a thousand people who have sold scripts, they've all approached it from a different angle. The truth is that if you work hard and you write scripts... the only thing I can say is that if you have any connection to anybody who has any connection to anybody who has any connection to anybody... if you do a great job, there's a good chance that somebody in the pipeline of how this shit gets made reads it, you could get somewhere.

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Will the Circle Be Unbroken: A Controversial Conversation with Megan Phelps-Roper

2011-04-21T12:47:00.000-07:00

DISCLAIMER: Just like the ones you see on Blu-Ray discs before movie commentaries, the views and opinions expressed in this interview are solely of the individual being interviewed and are not the views of Fulle Circle Magazine, its parent, affiliate, or subsidiary companies... not that we actually have any.

The BBC produced a TV documentary written and presented by Louis Theroux about the Phelps family, at the heart of the Westboro Baptist Church. It's called "The Most Hated Family in America", and even Megan agrees with the accuracy of that title, but doesn't let it discourage her. She says her family is thankful for it. I've seen a lot of interviews with Megan Phelps, and typically those conversations are buried in shouting and quick editing, and I wanted to hear her out in the privacy of a one-on-one discussion of why she believes what she believes. While my opinions and beliefs are not included in this interview, input and discussion from others on the subject matter is highly encouraged, and in future posts we will look at what is being said here from all angles.

Jason Anders: After all the interviews you've done today, you're probably sick of talking by this point aren't you?

Megan Phelps-Roper: It happens sometimes when you get to the end of a day, but we're all about publishing. That's our goal, and there are a lot of ways to do that, and this is one of them- Talking with people who will take the words and give them to others. It's good. It's a sacrifice, and a thing we are happy to do.

JA: Let's start off with some random questions, like hobbies and things you enjoy. Do you have any favorite movies, music, or books?

MP: The best book I've read recently (other than the Bible, of course) is "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close" by Jonathan Safran Foer. It's written mostly from the perspective of a precocious and hilarious nine-year-old whose dad died in 9/11. It was incredibly funny and well-written, but also made me shake my head at the blindness of it all. The sad things the little boy goes through are directly connected to the rebellion of his parents and grandparents, which was taught to him, as well. I kept thinking, there's a solution to this suffering: obey God! God promised blessings for obedience and curses for proud sin. I understand that the book is a work of fiction; I also understand that the picture it paints, total rejection of God's standards, followed by curses of the worst kind, is absolutely typical of our generation. It's a sick thing people do to their kids, raising them for Satan and thereby bringing curses in this life and Hell in the next. It's sick.

I also just started reading "Although Of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself", about a road trip taken by a Rolling Stone reporter with David Foster Wallace, the author who committed suicide in 2008. "Pride and Prejudice" is a great book.

Favorite movies would be The Town, Inception, Date Night, The Other Guys, A Few Good Men, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Gladiator, Slumdog Millionaire, and Arthur with Dudley Moore. It's so funny! I watched it with my uncle Tim when I was younger; we still drop one-liners from the movie at random moments... "Where is the rest of this moose?" So great!

My favorite songs are an ever-evolving thing. Some current ones: "Sydney" by Brett Dennen; "Pumped Up Kicks" by Foster the People; "Let's Go Surfing" by The Drums; "Excuses" and "Virgins" both by The Morning Benders; everything from Mumford & Sons; and "Love and Make a Lie" (WBC parody of Eminem/Rihanna's "Love the Way You Lie").

JA: Do you feel like you ever have a relaxed interview where you can get your thoughts across without being attacked?

MP: It all depends on where it takes place and who you're talking to. If the person is asking sincere questions and listening to the answers then obviously those are calmer and you can discuss things in more intricate detail. Sometimes you've got people who are angry, and that's not unusual for people to be angry when they hear these words. Sometimes you have to fight more to get your words out there. We're willing and able to do both. Growing up talking to people on the streets, you get a lot of education on how to handle them and find the best way to get your point across.

JA: How do you deal with the way you're represented, such as the BBC labeling you "America's Most Hated Family"?

MP: I think that is absolutely accurate. I think these words are powerful. Hebrews says that "the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart." So people can pretend to be disinterested or unaffected, but the fact is that every person who sees these words are going to have to render a decision, and that's just the way it is. That filmmaker hates these words that we preach, and he hates that we hold ourselves to the same standards that we hold all others.

We don't go out on the streets and tell people they have to obey God and then not do it ourselves.

JA: So what do you believe that you were put on this earth to do?

MP: The answer is very simple. It's in one of my favorite scriptures because it shows you with simplicity that is this life. It says in Ecclesiastes, "This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil."

That's your whole job in this life. God set His standards, and this isn't a difficult proposition. It says in Deuteronomy, "See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God." We see and believe those words. Nothing on our signs come from anything other than the scriptures. We don't make stuff up and then try and find it in the scriptures, we read it there first and then it goes on our signs.

The way that you glorify God is by obeying Him, and when it says to love your neighbor it actually tells you how to do that. You obey God, and then you warn and encourage your neighbor to obey God. "In any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him." -Leviticus 19:17. All these people talk about loving their neighbors, and so many people throw that verse in our face. It's so funny because the verse gives you the definition of love, and because they don't know what those verses actually say... they don't say to accept everyone. You don't accept and encourage proud sin, because if you do you are pushing them down the path to Hell. You don't encourage it knowing that the consequences of that sin are curses in this life and Hell in the next.

We're actually proud to be "America's Most Hated Family"... my mom actually asked the BBC if they could bump it up to being the "Most Hated Family in the World." In Luke, Christ speaks "Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!" We are to literally rejoice in that day, because that is how the prophets were treated. That is how Christ himself was treated. Matthew 5:12: "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." That is how we react to that label.

JA: In relation to the picketing, I just wanna throw a verse at you, then you tell me how you interpret it. Luke 6:37: "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned."

MP: First of all, we're declaring to you what the judgement of God is on all these issues. In John 7:24 it says "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." To parallel with the one you just quoted is Matthew 7:2: "For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." The point is that you're not supposed to substitute your judgement for the judgment of God, you're supposed to make those judgments according to the standards that God has clearly laid out in the scriptures.

If you substitute your judgement for God, whatever that is, you're going to set your own standard and fail according to that standard. If you keep going in Matthew, you'll see another one that gets thrown in our faces a lot, "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

Based on that scripture people tell us we can't say anything because we have a beam in our own eyes, but that's not what the passage says. It's telling you to put your sin away, and then you'll see the beam in another's eye. It's all about knowing hypocrisy, and not elevating your thoughts and judgments above those of God. It's such a powerful thing to me that Christ said "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." The only way you're going to find a righteous judgement is with the judgement of God. That's what we do. These are not our words. These are not our standards. These are the standards of God. We don't put it on a sign unless it is written in scripture.

JA: Do you believe that someone can be both a Christian and a homosexual?

MP: No. Those are two mutually exclusive things. And here's why: A person who has any fear of God, and any understanding of God calling that an abomination, even if you're not engaging in the conduct, wouldn't give themselves that label knowing it is an abomination to God. A lot of people say there are gay Christians, but Christ makes it clear by saying in Matthew, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?" One man. One woman. Any person with any other idea about what that should be is contrary to God's standard.

JA: How do other Baptist churches respond to what you do?

MP: What we hear is "We are not associated with them. They are not representative of Baptists." And let me say, we are completely independent. We are called Baptist not after these monster churches or Southern Baptist Convention, but by John the Baptist who taught repentance. You could take away the label and just call us the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have no affiliation with any other denomination in any other church. New Testament churches are local, autonomous, and self-governing.

JA: Has the negative response by the majority of the world ever made you second-guess your beliefs and interpretations?

MP: Well you can't listen to the whole world tell you that you're a total nutter without thinking "Am I nuts?" But the answers are in the scriptures. When the whole world is telling you that God loves everyone, and then you flip open a Bible to Malachi 1 you'll see that God says "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals." That sounds pretty clear. God said He hated Esau, so clearly God doesn't love everyone. There are so many more verses that talk about the hatred of God.

Psalm 5:5 says "The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers." The Bible is full of the wrath of God. We say that God is punishing this nation and this generation because they teach rebellion against Him. God set a standard, for example, "no fornication"... in this country you're a freak if you're not fornicating by the time you're fourteen. People laugh us to scorn when we say God is punishing them for that. There's this awesome verse in Ephesians that says "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience." The connection could not be more clear in the scriptures, and we are laughed to scorn because we say we believe those words.

It makes you think for a second, "what is going on here?" Just look on Twitter to see what all the people are saying about our church and everyone in it. When the whole world is telling you that God loves everyone, and then you look in the scriptures and see God's hatred for people... I don't think we're crazy. And the reason I don't think that is because I've had a lot of clear study in the scriptures. With that kind of dichotomy, all you have to do is compare what people tell you to what the Bible says, and you can see for yourself. Most people don't even bother to look. That's why we're out there... for education.

JA: So would you say that your picketing is to affect people, or is it to effect the legal system?

MP: Well, there's a couple of things... one of them is the Great Commission. Christ said "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." That is our primary goal, to obey that commandment. It's also in fulfillment of "love thy neighbor as thyself." There's a verse in Leviticus that pertains to the signs we make which says "You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord." He says instead of hating your neighbor, tell him there are consequences for his sin.

If you see a child run out into the middle of the street who doesn't see the danger, and you don't warn him, then you hate him in your heart. You just leave him out there to get killed. It's even worse, though, because you're not talking about bodily death. Your talking about Hell. Our goal is to obey the standards God set with "love thy neighbor as thyself" and "preach the gospel to every creature." How it lands on people's hearts is not in our hands, it's not in our power to change people's hearts. That is the exclusive prerogative of God. We can't change the message or manipulate people into believing it. We can't sugar-coat it. You can't tell people that most people are going to Hell. You can't tell them that in a way that they're going to like it. "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many."

Our goal isn't to change people's minds. That's not in our power. "So that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.” This message will either harden their hearts, or prick their conscience and make them say "Lord, what must I do to be saved?" These words may take root in their hearts, and they will engage in conduct that shows they have repented. It's going to be one of those two things. You're either a person who has a conscience toward God, or you are hard-hearted against Him.

JA: Tell me about your relationship with Kevin Smith. Would you consider him a friend, acquaintance, or do you take offense to what he says about you?

MP: I think that I am his friend, but I don't think he's mine. Instead of encouraging me to obey God, he does the opposite. He has the whole Twitter "Save Megan" that he promotes, trying to pretend like service to God is a bad thing or an evil thing. On his "Red State" poster I wrote "Woe unto him who calls good evil, and evil good." That's a warning from God. Kevin Smith obviously has talent and can be very funny, but he insists on including a lot of perversion in the things that he says. He could be hilarious without that. But he loves it. He loves perversion and he loves sin, and that's what he promotes. Therefore, according to God's standards, he hates all of those people who listen to him. If he loved them, he would tell them the truth.

As far as offense, do you see some of the stuff that he says to me? It's the some of the most explicit and perverse, truly shameful stuff. If anyone else said that stuff to me on Twitter they'd get blocked, but the reason he doesn't is that he has a platform and any time that he posts anything about us, we will start getting tweets. "Kevin Smith and Megan Phelps are at it again! Get the popcorn!" I'm not just talking to him but to all of his followers. It's a sad thing that I've had to learn not to use certain words or phrases when I talk to him. I try to make the things that I write as explicit as possible without using phrases that I know he will turn into something perverted.

He and I cannot have a normal conversation without feeling like I am stepping in a mine field. He was very nice when I saw him face to face at the "Red State" premiere, he was appropriate. And then we walked away and we're in the car tweeting about what happened, and I get a tweet from him about something sexual. It's a shameful thing that he does, but we're willing to take the abuse.

JA: Did you ever make it through "Red State", and what are your thoughts on what you saw?

MP: It was really perverted. We left in the first fifteen minutes to send a message. I've never walked out of a movie before, ever in my life... even when it is absolutely disgusting. When you're sitting in an audience of people who know the standards of God and know that we are there, actions speak louder than words. It worked out great on both sides- We didn't have to sit there and watch it, and I am glad I didn't have to see my cousin and my brother who both left the church several years ago. They went up on stage after the show and did an interview that was part of a podcast, which I didn't listen to. He said we couldn't take "Red State", which we can... we're just not going to. I'll probably eventually watch it... just with the fast forward button.

JA: If you had to sum up what you believe you're here to do with just one sentence, what would it be?

MP: One of my favorite Bible quotes, because it tells you your whole duty in life, is in Ecclesiastes: "This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man." That's your whole job in this life. How do you keep the commandments of God if you don't even know what they are? You've got to study it, learn it, and then you've got to do it.