In a dream world they would let me make my own project as long as it conforms to what i’m learning. I can understand why that doesnt happen though, I guess it makes grading too arbitrary.

I can add yours in if you would like though.

Feel free to distribute my art that was banned from FB just moments after submission.

Your previous mailing confused me quite a bit. One thing that Reason and Logic provide us with is a means of being able to draw out a conclusion about some slice of the universe’s truths. A course in Deductive or Inductive logic or a philosophy course which shows you how to build a truth table would illustrate this with a statement set like the following.

All Human Beings have backbones.
I am a human being.
I have a backbone.

There are a number (something like 20) of sound logical argument forms, each of which carries with it a truth table and shows that if you are able to validate the premises your conclusion must follow.

Yesterday you made a statement which I will paraphrase, but please note that I am not focusing on the context, only trying to point out a logical falsehood. “I in no way meant that Atheists do not have good research to support their claims.” I think I understand what you meant here, but the problem is hidden in the undertone and as I’ve been taught, if I don’t speak up I am complacent. Atheists make no claims. There is a multitude of places where atheists are asserted to have many points of view, but they all miss out on the overarching issue – Atheism means a lack of belief in any god. There are Atheists who believe in Ghosts, Aliens, That Jesus was a real man, that cars will surely fly and or that a teapot is in orbit of Saturn. Atheists may believe in anything they want, and that is simply the statement.

On the other hand, you have stepped forward as a theist. You are making a claim, and that is why you feel like you are on the defensive. You are asserting a claim, not only that a god exists of supernatural powers, but also that it is a god to be called HE and that HE is the Christian God. You are willing to back up your faith with quotations from C.S. Lewis and or the bible, and probably a multitude of other believers, but that is not evidence in any way. The problem is that you have no evidence physical or otherwise.

As a quick side note about the evidence claim you brought forward, I don’t think that is correct. I am not looking for 100% physical evidence. I am looking for reason, logic and sound premises. A prime example is the Black Hole. When these were first thought up there was zero evidence for them and people were split. Sure they explained things but they were thought to be absurd and unnecessary. Mathematics and Physics came together and drew out a conclusion based on the understanding of the universe…

If enough mass is concentrated it will lead to a black hole.

This statement in and of itself was not enough to cause the claim to be accepted or thrown out. Physics and Mathematics showed it to be a necessity for our universe and with time we found them at the center of every large galaxy we have searched for them.
Not only can we never touch or even see them directly, we know where a number of them are and continue to uncover evidence for many more every year. We don’t need a spoonful of matter from them or a microscope to focus. We look around them and see what else is going on. We can see Gravitational lensing, distortions of time based on gravitational effects and so forth. There are entire books written about this subject and it is quite fascinating.

I chose this to illustrate that Logic and Reason do not need to be measured to be shown to be true, but they are dependent upon their premises.

If I clean my room then my mom will let me go to the concert
I cleaned my room
My mom let me go to the concert.

If I clean my room then the moon is made of cheese
I cleaned my room
The moon is made of cheese

Both of these are using the exact same logical form, and their truth tables are identical. The problem here is the second claim is garbage.There is no spoonful of “my mom will let me go to the concert.There is no mass to cleaning my room. it is simply a statement of a possible outcome, a premise to the argument.

Getting back to the discussion, you will probably be surprised to hear that I have read the first couple chapters of this book and found it quite disappointing. In a very heavy handed stroke he essentially says that naturalism is flawed because he can’t wrap his mind around something, and that is what miracles are. This is a logical fallacy called Argument from Ignorance, which in simplest terms says “I don’t know how it happened so it’s got to be magic.” If you try to use this argument with friends or family they will surely see through it, and with exercise in logic you too will start seeing them.

While I recognize your reluctance to be willing to step into the Atheist primer willingly, I can’t help but be disappointed to hear that you are not already doing so. You will note that in spite of your defensive position I have not been advancing any position on to you. I haven’t quoted anything but previous emails, pointed you to youtube videos or even felt the need to break open the bible with exception of re reading the Adam and Eve portion of the genesis story. In my eyes all I can see is an inability to be clear with your own point of view, so you feel more comfortable stepping behind another’s. That is not to say that the other person’s P.O.V. is stronger or that you are weak, it only is the truth. So far you have quoted C.S. Lewis as though he were the preacher up on high and I can’t help but smile because, as I’ve already been accused of generalization regarding Christians earlier, there is going to come a point where even C.S. Lewis will cross out of your comfort zone.

While you may see this as a deadlock, I can’t agree. You have successfully begun the process of cleaning up your beliefs. While your resolve may be unaddressed at this point in time you are going to have to put something up that isn’t as easily retrievable as a C.S. Lewis or bible quotation. We all have deep seated beliefs that we are afraid of exposing and as an offer, why don’t we take a week to explore my beliefs instead of frustrating you. I offer my mind up to you and you may ask me any question that you may have about Atheism, My positions, Politics, or anything else for that matter. I am an open book and quite willing to discuss the pages therein.

But, this discussion about miracles is not completed just yet. =)

I hope you are well and look forward to the next phase.

As for our discussion, it seems we are back to square one (mainly because of my inability to answer some of these questions sufficiently). I guess I will try to address the miracle questions first because they are the ones that I have the most difficulty explaining, especially to an Atheist.

It seems to me that our conversation is in a deadlock because you require 100% physical evidence while I still maintain that Christianity is a step of faith. Although I do believe that any true scientific discoveries or logical conceptions will align with Christianity, there are some parts of my beliefs that will never even be addressed by science and logic… don’t get me wrong, I would love to discuss these things, however, on a subject so delicate as miracles, I do not believe they help. The main difference between you and I is that I believe there is something beyond (or maybe behind would be a better word) Nature whereas you believe that nature is all there is, that it is one great interlocking procession of events in time- a giant cause-and-effect. As Lewis says in Miracles, it is impossible for you to ever believe in miracles, because the term itself is a product of Something (God) that, to you, doesn’t even exist. I know this repeated ‘faith’ and ‘belief’ can be annoying when looking for facts/scientific proof, but you must understand that there are a few parts of Christianity that are like that, such as the Trinity. I’d like to engage in a discussion with you on a little more concrete issue sometime, but I will try my best with miracles… if you want a true challenge, I would suggest getting a copy of ‘Miracles’ and reading the first five chapters (although I understand this is probably not going to happen- if you asked me to read an Atheistic book, I might would decline

Besides the issue of faith’s interplay with miracles as well as Lewis’ amazing arguement for them, I was reading the Bible the other day and happened to read a passage in Psalms:

“We are given no miraculous signs; no prophets are left, and none of us knows how long this will be. How long will the enemy mock you, O God? Will the foe revile your name forever? Why do you hold back your hand, your right hand? Take it from the folds of your garment and destroy them! But you, O God, are my king from of old; you bring salvation upon the earth. It was you who split open the sea by your power; you broke the heads of the monster in the waters. It was you who crushed the heads of the Leviathan and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert. It was you who opened up springs and streams; you dried up the ever flowing rivers. The day is yours, and yours also the night; you established the sun and moon. It was you who set all the boundaries of the earth; you made both summer and winter.”
-Psalms 74:9-17

This sounds very similar to God’s rebuke of Job… whenever the question arises in the Bible, the Creator squelches it with (paraphrasing…)’Look at all I have created, a beautiful witness to me, and yet you ask for more?!’…..

Once again, I know it seems I’m ‘throwing logic out the window’… but this is a subject which I cannot prove to an Atheist- the Supernatural cannot be made clear if the Natural is all that exists.. somewhere, faith has to step in.

- Theist