Go Burrows – Leader Assistant Resources

Ep 381: Ashley Langlais on Supporting the Goals of Your CEO

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 21 Jun 2026 15:33:46 +0000

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Ashley Langlais, Chief of Staff at DVx Ventures, shares her unique approach to being a strategic partner to a CEO. Ashley details her journey in supporting her CEO through a “big first,” such as writing his first book, making his goal her own from day one.

Jeremy and Ashley chat about how to provide support beyond calendar management for major initiatives like book writing, speechwriting, keynote prep, and internal/external messaging. Ashley also covers the Chief of Staff/EA role as a true strategic partner and shares valuable lessons learned for next time.

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ABOUT ASHLEY

Ashley Langlais is Chief of Staff to the CEO at DVx Ventures, a venture studio, where she joined as the first hire in 2020 to partner with the CEO and co-founders. Ashley started her career at Cambridge Associates supporting VC/PE leaders, then supported senior principals at ghSMART, the leadership advisory firm behind the widely adopted WHO method.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hey friends, welcome to the Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host, Jeremy Burrows, and this is episode 381. You can check out the show notes for this conversation at leaderassistant.com/381. Today, I am really excited to be speaking with Ashley Langlais. Ashley Langlais is chief of staff at DVx Ventures.

00:00:46
And we’ve got a fun conversation in store for you. So first off, welcome to the show, Ashley.

00:00:53
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

00:00:56
What part of the world are you in and what do you like to do when you’re not working?

00:01:00
I am right outside of Boston.

00:01:04
And when I’m not working, I have a four-year-old son named Remy. And so I feel like I’m still, like, maybe still considered a new mom. So I think, like, just doing things with him, like playgrounds and aquariums and zoos, I feel like my whole spare time is focused on that. So it’s been fun.

00:01:28
Awesome. That’s great. You said four? Yeah.

00:01:32
He’s four, yeah.

00:01:33
Four, wow. That’s a fun age. Mine are 12 and 14 now, so it’s been a while.

00:01:39
Oh, yeah. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have boys?

00:01:42
Yes, yes.

00:01:43
Yeah, so, yeah. So, you know the physical nature.

00:01:49
Oh, yes.

00:01:50
And the high energy that you deal with. Yep.

00:01:55
Love it. Well, tell us a little bit about your career. What, how did you get started in the support roles? Did you, were you an assistant before you were, you were a chief of staff and tell us a little bit about your career journey.

00:02:10
Um, so out of college I had a few like admin roles in various industries. Like I was in media right outside of college and I worked in a hospital for a few years. Um,

00:02:24
But I’d say I was an admin assistant at Cambridge Associates, which is a investment consulting firm.

00:02:35
And I think there’s where I really like found my career.

00:02:40
So I was an admin assistant there, supported like eight executives across like three teams. It was kind of crazy. And I felt like

00:02:50
Yeah, and I felt like I couldn’t make an impact on the executives themselves. And that’s the part of the job that I really liked. And surprisingly, I didn’t even know that an executive assistant role existed. But because that was the part of the job that I liked, I was doing some research, speaking to recruiters, and I found the executive assistant role. And I was like, that’s exactly the role that I want.

00:03:16
So after Cambridge, I worked at GH Smart, which is a boutique consulting firm. They consult on human capital. I don’t know if you’ve ever come across like the who method for hiring in your… I don’t know. Maybe if you kind of give me the short summary, it’ll… It’s just like, it’s like an approach to hiring, you know, just like one of the approaches that like, you know, people in that space use.

00:03:46
Um, and side note, their book, Jeff’s Martin Randy streets book, who is very good, highly recommend.

00:03:55
Um, and that like explains the method, but anyway, so they created that method and they’re just, I loved my time there. I supported two principals, loved them, loved the EA team. It was remote before COVID. So their model is like freedom and flexibility. And,

00:04:16
I just, they were just, like, such forward thinkers. Love them. Anyways.

00:04:20
I was there for about four years, and then an EA that I worked with previously, we reconnected, and she said, oh, I heard of this really cool executive that’s looking for an assistant. And I was like, well, I’m not really looking for a job, you know, whatever. And she was like, I would really encourage you to have a conversation with him. So I looked at his profile, and I’m like, okay, the former president of Tesla, the former COO of Lyft. I was like…

00:04:50
if he, if this wants to have a conversation with me, then sure. I’ll have a conversation with him. Um, so I did. And that’s like where it all started during the interview. My CEO now is like, you know, I’m on this board. I’m an advisory partner over here. You know, I’m doing this project. Oh, and I’m starting a venture studio. And I just couldn’t like, I was just like, I couldn’t not take this opportunity to like,

00:05:19
do all these exciting things with him. So it’s been six years now at DBX. Um, we built it to like, we’ve launched 12 companies. We have about like a hundred employees across the portfolio. Um, so yeah, it’s been, it’s been kind of like a wild ride.

00:05:36
Wow. That’s awesome.

00:05:37
Yeah.

00:05:39
So was the, when you first started working with the current executive, was the title executive assistant and then it morphed to chief staff or did it start with chief of staff?

00:05:49
Correct. No, it was executive assistant, um, sort of like, like manager of the CEO office, basically. Um, so yeah, when I started, I supported him and then the other founders. Um, so it started as three founders and then we hired another, we took on another partner. So we had four, um, and I was primarily supporting the CEO and then just like other, you know, like

00:06:17
lightly supporting the others, I’d say, until it got, like, a little heavy, and I recommended hiring another executive assistant to take on two of the partners.

00:06:28
So that’s kind of where we’re at now. The chief of staff role happened because I think it was about two years into it, I sort of just, like, asked to…

00:06:44
Really like changed my title. The the the reason was I felt like it was branding for me um

00:06:52
like I needed the brand, as awful as it sounds, like for external people and also like inside because I was doing so many different things. Like I was sending out, you know, offer letters to people and like salary changes to people or, you know, telling the CEOs of our portfolio companies like, we need this, this, and this from you. And I just felt like, so internally I needed that branding. And then externally, like I was speaking to like lawyers and tax consultants and, um, you know, all of those external resources, I felt like I just, I needed that branding in order to, I don’t know, not taken seriously, but just like, so they understood why they are on the phone with me, if that makes sense.

00:07:44
No, that makes total sense. And I like that you, you know, you were able to present that business case and that your executive was supportive of it too.

00:07:53
Yeah, absolutely. You know, like I think, you know, I was like doing the role without the title. And so I was like, I need the title in order to like bring it all together.

00:08:04
Awesome. Awesome.

00:08:05
Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:06
Well, that’s super great. It sounds like a fun, adventurous career. Thanks for sharing. And, you know, today I would really like to dive into really a overall concept of supporting the goals of your CEO, supporting the goals of your executive team. But specifically, you know, you reached out and we connected because your support of your CEO kind of went to a specific project of publishing a book, publishing and writing. Your CEO wrote his first book, right? Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:46
You were very, very involved in that. And so I want to kind of walk through that journey. And if you’re listening and you’re like, my executive would never write a book. If they did, no one would want to read it.

00:09:00
That’s okay. There’s probably other goals that your executive has that you can own as your own goals and you can help them execute and reach those goals. So even if it’s not specifically a book, I think this is going to be a helpful conversation, but I’m also excited to chat with you, Ashley, because I’ve helped my former executive. I helped publish books and, you know, it’s kind of part of that whole process. And then my current executive has tons of ideas, but one of those is also publishing a book. So,

00:09:36
This is very relevant to me and my assistant role. And again, if assistants listening, if you’re executives, maybe not writing a book, there’s probably some big project that they want to do that you can learn a lot about in this conversation. So let’s start with what was it like supporting your CEO through writing his first book?

00:09:58
It was not what I expected it to be. I know you’re not a stranger to this process and that world, so you’ll be familiar with everything that I say, but I just felt like it was going to be a lot more straightforward.

00:10:18
easier. I wasn’t ready for how complex the publishing world is. And not just that there’s so many different avenues in which to publish a book nowadays, but also there’s so many different players.

00:10:37
You need the editor and the agent and the ghostwriter and the publicist. And it was just like so many different players. So I think navigating the industry was the first step and also like one of the most challenging parts of the process.

00:10:56
Gotcha. Gotcha. So let’s actually, I’m curious. So when did the, when did the idea first hit your desk? Like when was it like, Hey, you know, I’m going to write a book and by the way, you’re going to help me.

00:11:09
Yeah. So we were in our annual partnership review. That’s what I call my annual reviews. Because I think it’s helpful to position it that way so that you can get as much information from your executive in terms of goals and priorities for the year. So we were talking about goals. And he said, this year, my goal is to write a book. And at that point, it became my goal for the year. And so I was like, all right, let’s do this.

00:11:41
So that’s when it happened. I think, like I said, it was challenging because neither of us are from the publishing world, and we don’t have direct contacts in that world, but he has a huge network, and I feel like I have a decent network in my own right, and so I thought between the two of us, I would connect with somebody and they would be like, oh sure, here’s my agent or here’s my editor. And it’s done. But it didn’t happen that way. And so I had to do a lot of research and speak to a lot of different people in the space and near the space in order to really understand that world and to really find the right team for us.

00:12:31
yeah what was the like the the publishing side so with my executive my former executive you know he had i think when i started working with him he had already published a book that had done pretty decent so he was talking to publishers but then for me personally with my book the leader assistant

00:12:56
I was I had not published anything. I was kind of getting going and I had done a bunch of research and I had a friend that had done self publishing with a publishing partner that kind of helps you through the process, but doesn’t actually own the rights to the book or distribute it necessarily. They just kind of help you get through the self publishing process. So how did you guys determine whether or not you would self publish or traditional publish?

00:13:25
Yeah, so great question.

00:13:29
Again, I didn’t know that there were different approaches to publishing. I thought traditional was the way to go.

00:13:36
That’s where I sort of started. So like our initial approach was like my CEO is a fantastic writer, but you know, he has a day job and he doesn’t necessarily have all this time and just a hundred percent focus to the book. So like we, we were like, we need a ghost writer or coauthor, someone to help him write the book. So our approach was to find a coauthor that came with relationships and knowledge of the process.

00:14:02
Right? That was difficult to find.

00:14:07
Because, and I talked to many and first of all, they’re hard to find because they’re ghostwriters, right? Like, um, but I did speak to some and some, you know, were either in between projects or just weren’t a great fit for my CEO or, um, one of them that I talked to was like, his platform’s not big enough. And, you know, he’s, he’s going up against Michelle Obama’s book. Like, you know, build the, build the platform and then come back. And I’m like, wait a minute, like he has to be a celebrity or like a former first lady to write a book, like what?

00:14:48
So I don’t know. So that avenue just, I felt like wasn’t working. So that is when I did some research into things like hybrid publishing and self-publishing.

00:14:59
But my CEO really wanted to make sure that the traditional route with a top publisher, with a healthy advance was off the table before we did something else, at least for his first book.

00:15:14
you know? Um, so how I, so how I ended up finding somebody, do you want to hear?

00:15:23
So he had sent me this article that I think he read from like the information. Um, and the article was something like, here are the ghostwriters behind bestsellers and it featured five. And so I, and their contact information was like listed or their website or So I reached out to two of them that had the most bestsellers among the five and had a business book in their library.

00:15:51
And one of them, the one that responded, her name is Carly Adler. She coauthored Mark Benioff’s book, Behind the Clouds, I think it is, and Maynard Webb’s book. And I’m like, there’s no way that these people are going to respond to me.

00:16:08
Not to me, to John, because I reached out as my CEO with the pitch. But she did, and she was all about the idea and was very welcoming to have a call with me.

00:16:25
Um, but she was working on another project and we kind of went back and forth for a few months. And then she finally, she was, she was finally like, I’m not available, but I believe in the book. And so introduced us to our now agent.

00:16:40
Gotcha. Gotcha.

00:16:41
So like the initial approach ended up working. It just took a few repetitions.

00:16:48
Right. Yeah. And it’s not like you had like a.

00:16:52
It was a little bit of a roundabout way, right? Like it wasn’t like, oh, you know, go here, do this, do this.

00:16:57
It just kind of had to… Totally roundabout. And also like, don’t be afraid to cold call because you never know who’s going to pick up the phone. Like I kind of can’t believe that she did.

00:17:08
Nice. So, OK, so you got that you you worked with an agent.

00:17:14
Did you then start writing or did you try to get the agreement with the publisher first? Like, how did that happen? Like, was it even a was it even a like, did the agent think, oh, we can get a deal? Or was this kind of like, well, we’ll see. And you know what I mean? Like before you, I guess before you moved forward with the project, you had to figure out is it going to end up a traditional project?

00:17:43
Yeah. Yeah, totally. And so like a book proposal is something that you need. So like, I think, I think the way, like the process is to get the agent, then you write the proposal and you shop that around to the publishers. Um, but because we were looking while I was looking into other avenues, like hybrid publishing or something like that, like,

00:18:06
within those few months, like we pretty much had wrote the proposal because we had, we like wrote the pitch to sort of get people interested. And then, you know, I added all of the things that you need in a proposal, like how big my CEO’s platform is and all of like the media appearances he’s edited, whatever. So once we got the agent, we pretty much did have that proposal. The agent was pretty, he was like pretty certain that, um, it would get, it would get a deal.

00:18:38
Um, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if that’s, if that’s, you know, a different experience than, than you had, but yeah, he was pretty, he was pretty certain. I don’t know if he only takes on books that he’s certain about or what, but.

00:18:51
Right. Okay.

00:18:52
Yeah.

00:18:53
So then you, you were like, all right, we’re going to do this. So then you started submitting the proposal to different, different publishers.

00:19:00
Yeah, so yeah, so the agent, okay, so as I said, like there’s many different players. The agent I found is like, that’s the person that does connect you to the publisher to get the deal. But they’re also, and I don’t know if this is true of all agents, but this one in particular was like,

00:19:21
the one that guided us through the process, like anytime we had questions or wanted recommendations or wanted guidance, like that was the one that we went to. It seemed like he, like the agents kind of like looking out for the author. I don’t, I don’t know if that’s like everybody’s experience, but ours was really good in that sort of way. So yeah. So he connected us to the publishers and, um, and we got a few offers and then, you know,

00:19:52
took one of them.

00:19:53
So that’s great.

00:19:54
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:56
What would you say? So if there is assistance, you know, listening that are like, Hey, my executive wants to write a book as well, their audience, they’re thinking, okay, their audience is the size or their, their reach is this far.

00:20:12
Is there, are there kind of some ballpark numbers or ballpark, um, you know, goals for an executive’s reach that that those listening could maybe help their executives aspire to to try and

00:20:27
you know, get to the level, I guess, if you will, of where a publisher would actually consider it? Or does your experience, was there any sort of like, hey, if you have, you know, an email list of 30,000 or if you have a LinkedIn following of 50,000, are there any sort of benchmarks that you saw during that process that were like, oh, this would help?

00:20:48
I mean, that’s what, when I was talking to that ghostwriter, like, that’s what she was saying, that you need, like, a newsletter of, like, thousands and you know 50 000 linkedin and twitter following um when once got like but carly didn’t think that um the one that ended up like connecting us with the agent she didn’t

00:21:12
She was like, I’m actually surprised that you got that feedback. I think the contents of the book is pretty interesting in its own right. Your CEO does have a decent following. It’s not mind blowing, but he’s on CNBC regularly as a commentator. He is out there.

00:21:36
I will say, though, we did take some time. So we hired a comms team. We have, like, a contractor comms team that worked to build my CEO’s brand even before, like, the book. So, yeah, so they did, like, increase his followers on, like, LinkedIn. But, you know, it’s, like, 15,000. It’s not, like, 50. And they did, like, increase his…

00:22:06
like his media hits and his appearances in media, like thought leadership, um, op-eds and stuff like they, they helped with that. So they did like boost his brand a little bit. And I do think that that probably is helpful.

00:22:22
Um, you know, if your executive is going to write a book one day.

00:22:27
Gotcha.

00:22:28
Awesome. Super helpful. Um,

00:22:32
Let’s dive into the writing process. So how did you specifically support the writing process?

00:22:39
So this was interesting too. I think like, so there are a lot of challenges to this project, um, navigating the industry, one of them, but like the second one, and I think this always comes up in our types of roles, but it was like not really knowing my role or how I can support. Cause I’m like the first time support to our first time author. Like, you know, I don’t know what the process looks like and I don’t know where I can be helpful yet. Um, but yeah,

00:23:09
Go back just a little bit, even before the book came about. So my CEO was speaking at the World Business Forum, a couple of those around the world, and he was writing a speech for it.

00:23:23
And I felt like this was an area that I could totally help him with, but I’m not quite sure how to write a speech for him. Like, you know what I mean?

00:23:34
So I asked one of my mentors and I was like, you know, do you have any advice? Like, I really feel like this is a place where I can add value, but I’m not quite sure how to go about it.

00:23:43
I’m not quite sure how to go about it. And she was like, well, you could offer to be like a blank page because that’s always the tough part of the writing process is kind of like, where do I start? So have like a session with him, do a brain dump. You collect the notes, organize them in a way that makes sense.

00:24:03
and highlight areas that resonate with you and then build off that. So that’s what I offered to my CEO. And my CEO is very self-sufficient.

00:24:14
I was surprised that he took me up on my offer. Like, he would never ask me to help him with that. Like, he doesn’t know. I don’t think he knows that I could be helpful in that type of a scenario, right? So he said yes, and so I was thrilled. I got, like, my foot in the door to help him with something else, expand my role. And…

00:24:36
And so, but he are, so he sent me what he had and he pretty much already had the outline. Like what he needed was kind of like to fill in the gaps with like stories that sort of like illustrate the points that he’s making in the speech, if that makes sense.

00:24:53
And so those, so, so we had like a, a riff session on that. I’ve, I watched like all the podcasts, all of the YouTube videos that are out there on them. I took like eight, Any kind of like notes that I felt like in meetings could be an example of something we could like elaborate on for this speech.

00:25:13
Um, I like collected all of these examples and then during the riff sesh we like talked about them and just built the content that way or finalized it really So I was already familiar. So the book is is based on that content So it’s already familiar with the content and already kind of like involved in that part of the process um but

00:25:37
once we got the book deal with the agent also the agent found us a co a co-author so like that’s also a role of an agent also so all right so now my ceo has the co-author he doesn’t really need me to help him with like the writing sessions and everything so like how can i be helpful through this the writing process and so again wasn’t quite sure like what my role looked like in this phase so I just joined everything I could to start so I could figure out like, okay, where are areas where I can be most helpful? So I started like in the writing sessions with my CEO and his co-author. And I was like, I don’t need to be in these writing sessions. You know, like the co-authors got it. Like he’s good at, you know, his job. He knows what he’s doing. But like I can help behind the scenes managing the workflow. Like I want to review all the drafts that come through to make sure, you know,

00:26:32
you know, um, all the points that my CEO wanted to make are made, or if I have any thoughts of what we could add, um, to like, it get even like more of a robust example or, or something like that. Like I stayed in the, um, I stayed involved just more of like a behind the scenes role.

00:26:55
Gotcha. Yeah. Nice.

00:26:58
So did it conflict or I guess one thing I’m thinking through is, you know, you mentioned, you know, your CEO has a day job and you obviously have a day job. So like, how was this just something that…

00:27:15
you slotted in, right? Like solid in times or, you know, how did that conflict with at times, you know, did you feel like it was, it was pulling you away sometimes from your day job, if you will?

00:27:30
Yeah, it was, it’s, and even now, because it just, the book just launched on March 24th. So there’s still some like,

00:27:39
There’s still a lot of promotion going on now.

00:27:42
I felt like throughout this process, this was probably like a two year process from when my CEO said he wanted to write the book to when it got published, exactly two years. And so it definitely was like periods of heaviness and then periods of not so heaviness. So like during the actual writing of the book,

00:28:07
it was like more manageable, you know? Um, but I would say like the heaviest part was, um, launch, like promoting for the book. So like pre-launch was the heaviest part because there’s just so many, um,

00:28:25
like interviews and appearances and travel and everything that, um, my CEO needed to do so that it could all come out around like launch time, you know? And, you know, like I said, like we’re doing, we have investor meetings as you know, same with you. Uh, we have investor meetings and we have like, um,

00:28:47
he has a bunch of speaking events and we have like internal ops reviews and I see meetings. And so it was, it was a challenging time because there was so many competing priorities for my CEO’s time. Um, and I would say like still now I’m not out of it yet, but, um, yeah, but I think just always going back to like prioritizing, you know, it’s like,

00:29:13
how does this fit in, in the list of priority? And if it’s not on the list of priority, it doesn’t fit in, you know, I also think there’s something to note too, where, um, well, two things really like during this time, I think to keep in mind that, you know, you’re not just managing your executive’s calendar, but it’s also like you’re managing their energy because they’re not just doing, um,

00:29:41
Even if it’s not just travel, but it’s like how many pitches can he do in one day? Not just book pitches or promotion, but also like the investor pitches or a speaking event or even like a, you know, a pre-call to a speaking event so that like he’s, you know, he’s brainstorming and having these thoughts. Like how many output, high output meetings can you stack on in one day? Like definitely needed to be more mindful of that than like, you know.

00:30:11
any other time, I guess. And then also,

00:30:15
like there was some times where my ceo was feeling like a little burnt out and would be like let’s push that podcast off until post launch and i would push back and be like here are the metrics here’s the recommendation from the publicist like you know how many books are you going to publish in a year this one moves the needle like i’ll try to make your travel as comfortable as possible I’ll stack on other meetings to make your time as efficient as possible. But I really think you should reconsider doing this podcast, you know? So there is like some, some sort of like managing that too, you know?

00:30:55
Yeah, totally.

00:30:58
Awesome. Well, what would you say this experience did to change, you know, changed how you thought about or, you know, how you work in your role?

00:31:09
What was the biggest difference or, yeah, what did this experience do to how you view your role?

00:31:17
I think that it’s… It made me reflect on the role itself, and it’s kind of like the role is not clearly defined.

00:31:32
And I think that’s part of it. That’s like the challenge of the role is that it’s not clearly defined, but it’s also kind of the beauty of the role because.

00:31:40
you can make it as involved, as strategic, as like impactful as you want. Um, and, and, and that you’re like, your executive gives you the room to operate in.

00:31:54
Um, and I think like that’s, it’s, it’s exciting, you know? Yeah.

00:31:59
I love that.

00:32:03
Well, what to kind of close the loop and thanks for sharing that journey. I know it’s, I’m sitting here, my wheels are spinning because I’m thinking, all right, what am I going to, what parts of this process am I going to have to hit you up for help on for my executive?

00:32:20
I can only share my experience, which I know, like, I don’t, I don’t know if it’s like, you know, a cookie cutter experience across the board. So, but I’m happy to share and help how I can. Yeah.

00:32:31
Awesome. But to wrap it up, I would love to hear kind of

00:32:36
the high level from your experience, what do you feel makes you effective in the role of chief of staff? And maybe even just a tidbit for those listening who are currently in the assistant role, or maybe they’re in the chief of staff role with the assistant title. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say is, yeah. What’s made you effective in that role?

00:33:01
I think like, yeah,

00:33:05
For me, the role was earned by like creating value. And the best way that I was able to create value was through access. And so I think like…

00:33:20
that’s kind of like first and foremost is to like gain that access. So like asked to be in meetings, asked to be looped into conversations, asked to be part of a project that might not be in your wheelhouse because like you’re going to gain context and business knowledge and you’re going to be able to create value with that knowledge, you know, like, um,

00:33:45
Knowledge is power. That’s always what I think. But the way that I ask for that access is not like, hey, do you think I should join the board meeting? It’s, would you mind if I join the board meeting so I can take notes, track action items, and gain context?

00:34:03
And if you position it that way, I’ve never been told no. And then when you start adding value…

00:34:11
based on like the information that you’re getting from those meetings. And you don’t even have to ask to be in them anymore because like you’re expected to be in them.

00:34:21
That’s well said. That’s awesome.

00:34:24
Thank you so much, Ashley, for your time and keep up the great work and your support for your CEO and your team. And what’s the best place for people to reach out if they want to just connect and say hi?

00:34:39
LinkedIn probably is the best place. Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:43
Great. Well, I’ll put your LinkedIn link in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/381.

00:34:56
And check out all the links in the bio and all that fun stuff in the show notes. So thanks again, Ashley. Really appreciate your time. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Keep up the good work and we’ll talk soon.

Ep 380: Amber Youngren – Executive Assistant and Office Manager Lead at Forged Fiber 37

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 14 Jun 2026 15:23:16 +0000

Amber Youngren is the executive assistant and office manager lead at Forged Fiber 37. In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Amber discusses the evolving role of the Executive Assistant. She shares how EAs can become strategic leaders by developing skills for operations and Chief of Staff roles, building deep trust, managing up, and acting as the organization’s ultimate connector to translate observations into actionable insight and bring alignment across teams.

LEADERSHIP QUOTE

The most important thing in communication is hearing what isn’t said.

– Peter Drucker

CONNECT WITH AMBER

- Amber on LinkedIn

ABOUT AMBER

Amber Youngren is executive assistant and office manager lead at Forged Fiber 37. She began her career in hospice nursing and brings over 20 years of experience in healthcare, most recently in administration for ambulatory care and pediatric surgery. Amber has more than 25 years of expertise supporting CEOs and senior executives across healthcare and technology sectors, driving strategic initiatives and operational excellence. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration and is dedicated to fostering executive alignment and producing exceptional outcomes across the organization.

–––

THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

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JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

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LEAVE A REVIEW

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

AMBER
Thanks so much for having me. I’m very excited to be here today.

JEREMY
Awesome. What city are you in?

AMBER
So I’m in Littleton. So basically a suburb of Denver.

JEREMY
Love it. Love it. My brother’s in Arvada. Okay.

AMBER
Yeah. Yep. That’s just north of me. Do you due north of where i live so yeah nice so we’re gonna get into a lot of good stuff today but before we dive in what is your favorite thing to do when you’re not working so um outside of work i’m a huge live music person um concerts are my happy place and my taste is really all over the place so

AMBER
I love classic rock. I love metal. I love a select few pop artists. And then on the complete other side of the spectrum, I also love live musicals as well. So just being in that theater and then hearing that first note hit really just gives me chills every time. So, yeah. Nice.

JEREMY
Awesome. And then do you have any pets or kids or none of these?

AMBER
I have like a whole slew of both. So I have two adult sons and one adult stepdaughter. And then they’re all grown and out of the house and doing their thing. And then we also have two doggies at home. We have a chocolate lab and we have a boxer and husky mix. So they keep us super happy every day. They’re so sweet.

JEREMY
Nice. Love it.

JEREMY
Well, let’s jump into your career journey. For the last several years have been working toward um moving up in the executive assistant world. And part of that was going back to school to finish my degree that I had started over 20 years ago. I’m like, it’s time. I want to finish it so that I can use this and really build up. So I did that, got my Bachelor of Science in Business Administration not too long ago.

AMBER
But I had that clear goal. I wanted to grow and and really move toward kind of an EA kind of chief of staff type of role.

AMBER
So that’s what drew me to the current title that I hold right now, which is really, it’s a position that is super exciting because it kind of straddles the worlds of executive assistant in the traditional sense, and then also a lot of chief of staff. type of day-to-day responsibilities as well. So yeah.

JEREMY
Gotcha. Nice.

JEREMY
let’s go back in time a little bit now. Why, why did you get into the assistant role or what is your favorite part about it? Like when did you see it as a career, all those things?

AMBER
Yeah. So, um, my path to the EA role definitely was not linear, um, I had actually started my career, as you had mentioned, in hospice nursing, which has really shaped just so much of what I think about care and support in the human side of health care.

AMBER
So eventually I did move into the corporate world for a little while and realized that I had this natural ability to bring order back.

AMBER
structure and this calmness to fast-paced environments. And so that’s what led me into the executive support roles over the years. So that’s how that came about. And I think my most, I would say a favorite part of it being really the unpredictable nature of it, right? I think so many people would probably say that as well, where you do have some predictable parts of your day, but a lot of it can be unpredictable.

AMBER
I don’t know how many days at the end of the day I thought as I’m heading home, I’m like, that’s definitely not what I thought I was going to be working on today. But it was certainly, you know, a great change of pace and it’s just very satisfying. Yeah.

JEREMY
Yeah, that’s one of my favorite parts. It’s like, you’re never bored, right? You’re never… No.

JEREMY
There are some assistant roles that might be a little more boring than others, but… True, true. There’s never a dull moment, for sure.

AMBER
Right.

JEREMY
Awesome. Well, what about the chief, you mentioned chief of staff, you know, obviously your title is unique with the strategic commercial assistant, but what skills do you think that you developed to essentially open the doors for this operations or chief of staff type role going from gatekeeper to strategic leader?

AMBER
Sure, sure.

AMBER
So I think when assistants start thinking about moving into operations or chief of staff work, the skills that matter most are the ones that you can operate beyond the day to day and actually influence how the organization runs. So it’s less about mastering every tool and process and more about demonstrating that you can see that whole system.

AMBER
And not just your corner of it. So I think what really would open some of those doors would be the ability to think in patterns and connections.

AMBER
When you can look at a situation and understand how one decision will ripple across teams and timelines and priorities.

AMBER
And leaders start to see you as somebody who can operate at a higher level. altitude when you start showing those.

AMBER
So I think also maybe decision support is another big one. So if you’re already the person that your executive turns to when they need like context or clarity or a quick read on the situation, I think that’s a sign that you’re building the right muscles that you would want to have for these type of positions. And

AMBER
Maybe another one I would add is maybe cross-functional influence being kind of a third pillar. So it’s about getting people aligned, moving in the same direction, and following through. So when you can bring that clarity to really ambiguous situations,

AMBER
You can get groups unstuck and without, you know, being that actual CEO position, you just have that line of sight across multiple departments that allows you to have those skills.

JEREMY
Love it. Love it.

JEREMY
So I love the line of sight line. You know, I’ve always thought that we have a very unique perspective on our direct executives that we support on their goals and their problems and the pain points and everything. you know, the drama sometimes, but then also the, the company as a whole, because we see how that interacts and connects with the rest of the company too. So line of sight is a good way to put it like that.

AMBER
Absolutely.

JEREMY
So what about, do you work for a team or with a team of assistants?

JEREMY
Is there a team manager, team lead for the assistants, or are they all kind of just reporting to their executives? Just curious how that works.

AMBER
Right.

AMBER
As far as the company that I’m at right now, we are just in the phase of really growing and expanding. It’s a super exciting time to come on board.

AMBER
I’m an earlier add to the company. And so we don’t have a team of executive assistants. So the team I would say that I work with is really just our executive leadership team. And what I’m super excited about and what I think this whole episode will probably hit on is being able to get to that point where you’re really seen as part of the executive leadership team and not the

AMBER
you support the executive leadership team. So I’ve been very fortunate that my current leader has been very open to expressing internally and externally that I’m part of that team, a working part of that team, and not somebody that is on the outside or the perimeter supporting him.

JEREMY
That’s great. That’s great. So let’s talk a little bit about confidence.

JEREMY
What, how do you have confidence to manage up and really like, you know, you mentioned those, those skills, like decision support and things like that. How do you have confidence to go to your executive and say, Hey, I think we should make this decision or, Hey, you, you need to make a decision. I’ve done some research and I think this is the decision you should go with.

AMBER
Yeah. Yeah. So so managing up is kind of like one of those buzz wordy phrases a little bit. But but what the way I see it is it’s really about creating the conditions for your executive to operate at their highest level. So it’s not about control and it’s not definitely not about people pleasing.

AMBER
So at its core, I think what it is really kind of taking that mental work. off of your executives plate. So they’re constantly bombarded with information, decisions, competing priorities. And so when you can manage up well, you can filter that noise and then surface what matters and then frame things that in a way that it makes them easier to act upon. So, you know, taking the, you know, this messy scattered information and turning it into something digestible for your executives. So,

AMBER
Clear summaries, clear visuals, simple next steps. So you’re not just like kind of passing the buck, passing things along. You’re transforming them into something usable.

JEREMY
Love it.

AMBER
Yeah, I would say that is one of the main things as far as like managing up. And if you’re touching more on, you know, having the confidence to actually bring something to your executive where you

AMBER
some of us may feel a little nervous about bringing something forth as far as, gosh, I really think that my executive needs to do this and I’m not really sure how to say it. without stepping on toes, I just head straight for it and say, and I’ll even use those words sometimes and say, look, I don’t want you to think I’m stepping on your toes because that is not why I’m in your office right now. I’m in your office because I think we need to do A, B, and C. And I think we need to do that because of this situation and really just hit it straight on

AMBER
and let your leader know that you’re not bringing something up to put barriers up or to be confrontational in any sense of the word. It’s really just trying to both align and make sure that they’re aligned with you as well.

JEREMY
Yeah, because it’s not a dramatic, emotional thing. It’s a business conversation, right?

AMBER
Absolutely. Absolutely. Like when you can frame it in a way that it is taking the conversation to

AMBER
a goal that you’re both interested in and trying to take that emotion away from it that that is really helpful to just frame that conversation and literally you know purposely say um you know the the goal of of doing what i think we should do right now is you know a b and c so that it’s very clear why you’re suggesting what you’re suggesting and not um You know, Amber’s being dramatic this afternoon and she is asking for, you know, the following things because she is frustrated with, you know, something or somebody, but it’s really about, you know, getting to the end goal.

JEREMY
Gotcha.

JEREMY
So kind of related to that would be building trust with your executive. Yeah.

AMBER
Yeah.

JEREMY
How have you done that over your career, just building that deep trust between that partnership?

AMBER
Gosh, that’s such an important part of the relationship between an EA and their executive is that deep trust.

AMBER
And it goes beyond, I mean, I’ll mention here in a second, I had some thoughts on discretion, but it goes beyond just that. It’s a mix of

AMBER
consistency, judgment, and the sense that you’re making their world easier and their decisions sharper. So really, reliability is that foundation.

AMBER
Doing what you’ll say you’ll do, following through with what you’re chasing, and then showing that your world is solid. So discretion is definitely an equal layer. Executives need to know that what they share with you stays with you, right? And that you can handle that sensitive information without drama, that you can stay calm and steady.

AMBER
when things get stressful. So definitely just that consistency, good judgment, discretion. And then I think just that kind of last like cherry on the top would be

AMBER
That deeper trust comes when an EA is able to provide that strategic insight. So you’re not just executing tasks, but you’re thinking ahead and you’re spotting patterns and you’re helping your executive make better decisions. So you can become somebody that they lean on. I would say in that moment, it’s when you’re taking a half-formed idea and then giving it back to them clearer and actionable is when you take that step into a deep trust.

JEREMY
Love it. Let’s talk a little bit about what you said earlier about

JEREMY
kind of the cross-functional skills, being a connector for the organization. Can you share a moment when connecting the dots made a big difference?

AMBER
Sure.

AMBER
And there’s really, when I think of connecting the dots on something like this, there’s like three components to that. It’s like spotting tension or friction, and then building a bridge to fix said tension or friction, and then transforming that outcome.

AMBER
The tension, I had noticed some tension going on between some groups here internally where we’ve had a new suite that has opened up with new staff that we’ve moved some people over to a different side of the floor, which opened up a bunch of offices. And, you know, our execs are all running fast, so they certainly are not, you know, honed in on

AMBER
gee, I think so-and-so should have this office and this office. They’re off and doing other things. But I started to hear and see some rumblings of some of the groups thinking or saying, I think my team has been here longer. I think that we should have these offices that have the better windows and those sort of conversations. I’m like, gosh, this is going to possibly bubble up and get noisy and doesn’t really need to. So

AMBER
What I did in connecting those dots is I went ahead and just stepped in and brought those leaders together. So they’re a step below the executive leadership team. They’re directors and managers.

AMBER
Brought them together and we’ve been working the last couple of weeks as far as literally looking at the space plan and talking about strategic direction with their teams. Like how many folks do you have? How many are going to have in three months, six months, in a year?

AMBER
what other teams do you work with most frequently? How do you work mostly together? Are you needing to collaborate often and literally need to share a space sometimes? So instead of fighting over the windows, we’re able to get into a mindset of collaboration and growth.

AMBER
And we’re pretty much at a point right now where we’re about ready to take a

AMBER
kind of finalized version to the executive team to just rubber stamp to say, okay, move forward and get everyone settled in so that they wouldn’t have to deal with it. So it’s really like seeing those ripples across departments.

AMBER
And when you can, you know, trying to keep that noise to a minimum for the executive leaders, it’s certainly something that

that i would be able to handle and and not have it bubble up yeah yeah it’s nice to take initiative see you know see it be aware of it spot it like you said and then figure out okay can we resolve this or at least come up with a plan to resolve it right before you know yeah like i said bubbling up and becoming a big issue with the

AMBER
Exactly. And then, you know, just bringing it to this exec team for them to have the peace of mind that their directors have already, you know, signed off on this. They’ve already been involved. They’re aware so that they know. Great. Now that, you know, some people will be moving offices. I’m not going to have to take this to my director and have them, you know, feel emotional or, you dared be upset with the decisions made, they were already involved in it. So, yeah. Awesome.

JEREMY
Well, Amber, this is great. I know there’s lots of good topics, lots of good lessons learned from a great career in executive support. So I appreciate you taking time to share your story a little bit and share a little bit of insights. My pleasure. Really valuable. To kind of wrap things up, I would love to hear, though, what’s one thing you want every assistant listening to remember?

AMBER
Yes.

AMBER
I would love every EA listening to this particular episode to know that you’re not just supporting leaders, you are a leader. So when you own your own career path, when you’re communicating with clarity, when you’re connecting those dots, when you’re seeing that line of sight, you have become that strategic leader on your team.

JEREMY
Love it. Well said.

JEREMY
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Amber. Thank you so much again for being on the show. What’s a good place for people to reach out if they want to connect and say hi and network?

AMBER
Yeah, absolutely. So they can find me on LinkedIn. Just do a search, I would think, for Amber Youngren, And happy to connect there.

JEREMY
Awesome. Yeah, I’ll put your LinkedIn in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/380.

JEREMY
And yeah, reach out to Amber and say hi. And yeah, appreciate it again. I was telling Amber before the conversation to those listening that I was helping my dad dig a trench in his yard right before the conversation. So it’s nice to sit down and not be doing manual labor for a few minutes while I talk to you.

AMBER
Jeremy was literally in the trenches today.

JEREMY
Exactly. Never a dull moment on the personal front, too, I guess.

AMBER
Yes, indeed.

JEREMY
Awesome. Well, have a good one. Best of luck to you. Hopefully, yeah, we’ll connect in the Colorado area someday and we’ll talk soon.

AMBER
Perfect. Thank you.

Ep 379: Executive Office Insights Spotlight – A Conversation with Bilingual EA Paula Moio and Her Executive

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 07 Jun 2026 15:23:40 +0000

Tune into this special episode featuring a rare dual interview between Diana Brandl, award-winning executive assistant Paula Moio and her executive, Louis. Discover the powerful synergy of their four-year working relationship, built on radical trust, open dialogue, and Louis’ strong belief that “assistants must be leaders.”

They share how emotional intelligence and cultural adaptation are critical in modern administration, and why future EAs must continuously add value beyond routine tasks to lead the profession.

Don’t miss this inspiring conversation on leadership, trust, and the human side of the evolving executive office.

CONNECT WITH PAULA

Paula on LinkedIn

ABOUT PAULA

Paula Moio comes originally from Angola and has been living in England for a very long time. After many years with the BBC, she currently works at a family office. Paula is also a great ambassador for the assistant community, is a brilliant networker and an incredibly humble and inspiring personality.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.

Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.

–––

THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

Enroll in the on-demand, AI-powered professional development resource for Leader Assistants who want to level up. Learn more -> The Leader Assistant Academy.

THE LEADER ASSISTANT BOOK

JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

Subscribe to The Leader Assistant Podcast so you don’t miss new episodes!

You can find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pandora, and Stitcher.

Join my email list here if you want to get an email when a new episode goes live.

LEAVE A REVIEW

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please take 2 minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts here. Each review helps me stay motivated to keep the show going!

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

00:00:28
The Leader Assistant podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

00:00:43
Thanks again for tuning in. Check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/379.

00:00:50
Hello everybody and I’m very excited to share my next English episode with you. It is an interview I did back in December 2019 when I was over in the UK. I was speaking at a conference in London and London is not only one of my favorite cities in the world, it is also a wonderful place where I meet friends and members of my community. So I always try to make extra room in my agenda when I’m over. And one of those people who’s always on this list of meeting is Paula Moio. Paula is currently working as an executive assistant for the CEO and managing director of Time Family Office in London. She has a long history working for the BBC and she calls herself a self-made, future-focused professional who truly embraces passion, advocating for a change of perceptions and the recognition of the PAEA role.

00:01:49
She’s a gifted mentor, she’s an award-winning assistant and she has a lot of stories she’s going to share with us in the interview. And what I enjoyed so much is the fact that I did not only get to interview Paula, she also invited her executive Louis to the conversation. So I’m very happy to share this very special episode with you as I was sitting there with two incredible leaders of their profession, seeing how much they value each other.

00:02:19
And I’m hoping you enjoy the interview as much as I did when I was sitting with them in the room.

00:02:26
Please enjoy and make sure you leave us a comment and a review. So tune in everyone.

00:02:38
So here we are, Paula and I. Good morning. Good morning, Diana. We are in the heart of London. I’m actually sitting in Paula’s office.

00:02:47
I’ve heard a lot about it, and now I’m here with her. It’s wonderful to see her in action, and I’m very happy that she really has time for me today to meet in this pre-Christmas time in London. A present. Thank you. So who’s Paula Moio? Wow.

00:03:08
So I am an EA executive assistant with a passion to serve and share I have 34 years of experience in the admin profession so sharing the wisdom good or bad of this length of experience it seems worth it I am also a mother of of two beautiful young women. Oh, yes, I can absolutely confirm this. I met both of them. Who are themselves trailblazing in their own lines.

00:03:42
And as an individual, I would like to believe that I thrive on principles of integrity and excellence, but not perfection, because that’s what makes me a human being. And I’m okay with that.

00:03:58
Very good.

00:03:59
So you are Angolan by birth and heart. Tell me about the love of your mother country.

00:04:08
Angola is, as we say it, as we Angolans say it, Angola is in my heart.

00:04:15
And I believe that every immigrant has its own country in their hearts. But

00:04:27
I never left Angola because I wanted. I left Angola because I had to. I had two babies then. They were nine months old. They were twins, my girls. And I needed a safer place. and more stable country to raise them.

00:04:46
But it was very hard for me to leave my country. I left, you need to know, I left my country with seven cars behind me taking me to the airport.

00:04:58
Friends and family. And it was very hard to leave them.

00:05:03
When I moved into England, I wrote about this. Saturdays were very difficult because it was when we had the family and friends, we spent time together.

00:05:19
i would not acknowledge a saturday and when i did i would cry and weep because um i missed all of it um so angola is something that is there in my heart and three years ago i had the opportunity to go back and give back and paying it forward and i tell you diana I did not blink. I was at my busiest time professionally. I did not blink. And I took it as an opportunity to exactly make the connection. And I’m still doing it now.

00:05:56
And that’s amazing. And a lot of people have been following your journey, especially with the Ungolden project. So tell us more about this project that you have been supporting since 2016. How did this all start?

00:06:08
It’s amazing.

00:06:11
My friends know that I’m an assistant. Every time they come, they see me doing something. And one of them came and I was preparing a speech to the launch of an association.

00:06:23
By then I was doing a short course in management for assistants.

00:06:29
And they asked me to come and do a speech for the relaunch of the association. So I very happily did.

00:06:38
So when my friend came, I asked him to read the speech and he was in awe. And so all of them go back and say, she’s an amazing assistant. She’s this and that and that. So there was one person who…

00:06:58
runs the the an Academy professional development and she heard about me and she said look I’m I was asked to design a course for assistance I know nothing about it I heard you you you do very well in your job can you help me I would love to run a two-day a seminar and

00:07:27
And could could you help us and I said look I’ve just started a new job. Yes after 15 years I mean, this is a completely the timing is couldn’t be you know, oh it all came together. Absolutely I said I need three months to think about the idea to conceive it in my head and if it goes well in my head I’m sure I will be able to To to to perform it, right? this was March 2016 and

00:07:56
And in June, I sat down, I wrote the program, sent it to her, and I said, are you happy with this? What do you think? And not only the program, I did the proposal as well and why we were doing it. But I think it’s all to do with the community service that we all do. You do. I do. Lucy does. I mean, everyone does. In our own corners. And of course, we absorb a lot from each other. It’s true. Yes. We learn a lot from each other. And, of course, I was able to put something together because I’ve seen, I’ve observed, and I was kind of regurgitating what we learn at our conferences. Yes. And that’s how it all started, never to look back again.

00:08:39
Wow. It’s an amazing story. And I remember we were talking about, you mentioned Lucy and I think it was an interview you did with Lucy where you said actually that the role of the assistant is in your skin and in your pores. So how did you become an assistant and how did you become so committed for this profession that you go so many extra miles?

00:09:02
I think it’s what Louis said, it’s second nature and it’s the love to serve and to provide solutions and doing it with excellence as well.

00:09:19
In my first job though, and this was in Angola, I had an executive and a line manager. She was a woman and she was a very hard woman.

00:09:32
fine professional and the very bone of who I am as a professional I owe it to her Wow I would have to say her name her name is Maria de Rosario so this is for you Maria and she would demand the best of me we started the both of us I was her assistant she would never stop working Wow and I Not that this is a healthy thing, but she would deliver, deliver, deliver. There was nothing about it but to deliver and to make sure that you do so with excellence. That comes from there. And I was 20.

00:10:18
Wow. So this was a very inspiring moment for you working with such a great leader then.

00:10:23
Totally.

00:10:24
Wow.

00:10:24
It made me who I am. I mean, she was the worst bosses in terms of demanding because I would type contracts from nine o’clock in the morning to midnight. Wow. Wow.

00:10:36
and do not even get overtime. But I learned, I think the professional, the very fabric of the professional I am today, I owe it to Rosario.

00:10:48
And I know that you have been working with other women in your career, so let’s jump to the history you have with the BBC. Please share your special memories of this chapter of your professional life, Paola. At the BBC I had two women.

00:11:04
The latter was the one who inspired me the most. She was a leader in her own right, a fine journalist and a human being above all, you know.

00:11:19
And I think she led us during very scary moments for the journalists, which was when one of our colleagues was abducted by the Palestinian Army of Islam, Alan Johnston. And he was kept captive for 114 days. Wow.

00:11:41
And she led us and also, of course, the BBC into a hundred, I think for a month, we would stay at lunchtime out protesting for him to be freed.

00:11:55
It was scary, but he actually brought us together as colleagues and employees and as a journalist, the human rights and all of that.

00:12:08
And it actually gave you a sense of belonging as well. So that was one of my most defining moments at the BBC. There was also under her leadership in 2008, we received eight, not just one, eight awards, Sony Awards. Wow.

00:12:34
Eight. Eight, which is, I think it’s the Oscars of the journalism. And so we got three gold, we got three silver and two bronze.

00:12:46
So that was a huge party going on at the BBC. Totally, totally. And that shows the finesse of her leadership, I think.

00:12:54
And I know you’re still in touch with her, right?

00:12:57
Yes, actually, we were just arranging a date for Christmas dinner and we’re going next week. Very nice. Please give her my regards.

00:13:07
I will. It’s wonderful that you mentioned her.

00:13:09
Yes, absolutely.

00:13:10
I could not…

00:13:12
Do it. So when we hear so much about all the wonderful projects in your life, how do you manage all of that? You are a committed mother.

00:13:21
You are a great networker. You are a supporter on social media.

00:13:25
So where is your work-life balance at the moment?

00:13:28
I don’t have, but I thrive on it.

00:13:31
This is a 2020 goal for Paula?

00:13:35
Well, I’m trying to as much as. So what I do, the compromise I did with myself is, yes, we work hard, but then we pause, we pause. not as much you know but i’m trying to find a balance there so when i pause i make sure i create memories with my family very good i go down completely i switch off and if i switch in it’s just for fun Very good. And that is the balance.

00:14:06
You need to teach me that. You know that I’m constantly online, so my work-life balance is also not the best.

00:14:13
But I know you have big plans, of course, for 2020.

00:14:17
And maybe you want to tell us a bit about the book you are currently writing. Is this something you can share with us already to get the audience a bit curious? Oh, it’s a wonderful project.

00:14:28
You know, I’m a firm believer that when you speak to the universe, the universe gives it back to you somehow.

00:14:36
So in my last three months in 2018, I was thinking I want to go back to writing, but writing more. I love writing. It’s just finding the headspace to do it. You know, you need to have that kind of space.

00:14:52
And January I get a phone call from Marcella Brito saying that she’s working in a project with three other women and it’s a project of five. It’s to write about the interculturality in our profession, how intercultural are we. how adaptable are we in a different environment and putting ourselves in other people’s shoes.

00:15:24
And this was, let me make a note here, this was a year that I took off the Angolan seminar to rest and to create space and to write and to kind of make a strategy about the Angolan project and whatnot. No, I get pulled right back in. And this is the book. The book will launch hopefully in the first semester of 2020. Okay.

00:15:55
Is there a title already?

00:15:57
We’re trying to find a good title.

00:16:01
We’ve got two options. I think it’s heading towards one. I’m not going to tell you now. But it’s about being intercultural. Very good. A multicultural mindset and making it abroad. So it’s the story of five women.

00:16:18
Let’s give them a shout out. You mentioned Marcella already.

00:16:21
Marcella Brito, Simone…

00:16:24
It’s Claudia and it’s Natalie and myself.

00:16:28
Fantastic. So five of us. Hi to everyone out there.

00:16:30
I know.

00:16:31
I’m sure you’re going to hear the podcast. So big applause already to you, amazing woman out there.

00:16:37
Absolutely. And they are.

00:16:39
So Simone is in Chile. Claudia is in Japan.

00:16:43
Natalie is in Madrid. I am in the UK. And Marcela is in Brazil. The particularity with Marcelle is that she’s not an immigrant.

00:16:55
We all are, and we’re all talking about our experiences of being in another country, the adjustment, adapting to a different culture.

00:17:06
And it’s more not on the technical side of the profession, but on the human side. The challenges, the adversities, and how we all made sense in the end, because we’re all five successful women.

00:17:22
You are, and you can be proud of that. Thank you. And being proud means also to me sending you once again congratulations on…

00:17:30
on winning the we are the city rising star award this year wow so what is that all about oh my god how important is this award for you and your work well it is important um we are the city um um it’s a it’s an award given to women that trailblazing in their own field yes it’s this year we had 17 industries being being awarded different uh categories And my category was the EA and PA alongside with four other women.

00:18:07
You get 10 shortlisted and then reduced to five winners.

00:18:12
I have to say I was nominated twice. three times the third time lucky you got it and you deserve it my friend this award is I mean it’s the icing on the cake because it’s at the national level yes about six sixteen hundred people and it’s for me it’s it’s not only just a recognition of what you do and what you give to people but it’s also propels you

00:18:44
uh and you reach and it also gives it to you the responsibility to do more actually it’s not just getting an award it’s to get in your word and do something and one of the things that i actually pledged because when they asked for further information on awards They asked me, if you win, what do you want to do?

00:19:07
What is it? What does that mean for you? And I said, I would actually pledge to work on diversity and inclusion. Oh, that’s a fantastic topic. In our profession. That is a wonderful topic. Because I don’t think that our profession is representative of the very fabric that Britain represents, which is multicultural. And for some reason, we are all there. But for some reason, we’re not showing up. Why does that happen? Why don’t we have that multicultural representation in our profession that Britain is?

00:19:41
Yes.

00:19:41
That is my pledge.

00:19:42
Fully agree. Wonderful. So what did Louis say when you presented him the award? What was the first thing he said?

00:19:48
I texted him.

00:19:51
He was on holidays, and I texted him saying, I got it. He was proud. He was so proud, yes.

00:19:58
And we are all proud of you because you’re a fantastic ambassador. You’re always there for people. Thank you. I value our friendship a lot. Me too. And I thank you so much for this time, welcoming me here in the privacy of your office. And I remember when I came…

00:20:14
I’m getting emotional now a bit.

00:20:17
So when I approached you with this idea and you said, yes, of course, we do that. And guess what, Diana? It’s not only me. I’m going to ask my manager if he wants to join us for this podcast. And this made it even more attractive, of course, for the audience out there because it shows a true partnership. And I’ve seen that, how you were sitting together, how you were interacting together. Yes.

00:20:40
And this is really wonderful to see because it shows that there’s so much out there for us assistants when we have the right leaders next to each other. They help us grow and they help us to deep dive into new fields. And it’s a privilege doing this today with you. And I thank you so much once again for having me. Thank you so much, Diana.

00:21:01
It’s been a pleasure.

00:21:03
Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.

00:21:07
Hello again and good morning. I’m still in London and actually now I’m sitting together with Paula and her manager, which is Louis. Good morning to you.

00:21:17
very honored to be here today to actually have the chance to talk to you both because of course for our audience it will be a wonderful experience to listen to a manager and an assistant at the same time how they have a view over our wonderful profession to get a insight into our industry and talking again to another assistant who is not based in germany

00:21:39
So welcome once again. I would love to raise my first question to both of you.

00:21:45
After working for nearly five years together now, can you say that there’s a certain routine in your working relationship? Maybe Paula, you want to start?

00:21:54
It’s four years actually.

00:21:55
It’s going to be four years in January.

00:21:57
And there’s no routine about my work relationship with Louis, who is my chairman. And it’s a wonderful thing. Right now, we’re settling. We’re kind of settling into ways of working together.

00:22:19
It’s almost the synergy bit that we are, knowing we know now her. how the other one works and and the expectations we’re managing the expectations now and it’s I think it’s working well for me was a shock for me to start working with a millennia my boss runs in adrenaline and I thought I was very busy in my previous job and I did not have a clue

00:22:55
what busy was oh yeah I’ve been working with millennials too and it was an interesting experience for me as well when I was I came actually from a very traditional business and then I jumped in the world of working for a startup company in Berlin and the first weeks were I thought I have to leave this job and But it was so refreshing on the other side. So I totally understand what you mean. And I’ve never been busier in my life than in this role. So I can totally rely.

00:23:22
Yes, absolutely. And the hardest thing for me was Louis comes from a different culture. We…

00:23:32
In principle, we should have the same culture being Portuguese rooted, but we don’t. I live in London for 24 years, and Luis just arrived to this country. So we have different cultures, different approaches to work. And that was the adjustment. And also fitting in or filling in the shoes of his assistant. He has an assistant in Brazil. He has different assistants.

00:24:00
Four, wow. Luis is signing. And so it’s filling in. He’s expecting to a certain standard. I have a different standard. How do I fit in? How do I navigate those intricacies, you see? But I think it’s working well.

00:24:16
I think we both, with the wisdom and the willing to make it happen because after all, we provide a service to a family. This is a family office and therefore there’s this will to serve and to present solutions and to present excellence and therefore this is our ultimate goal, both of us.

00:24:43
Do you want to add something, Louis? What do you value the most about Paula’s work?

00:24:47
I think what Paula said, she’s totally right, it’s always a challenge when you have different cultures and habits and all those kinds of things.

00:24:57
But one of the most important qualities in Paula is to be flexible and also she’s really resilient and she knows first to listen then try to see how her skills, her talents can be improved in order to fulfill all her responsibilities. So it’s not always, let’s say,

00:25:23
black or white, or that’s it, no. It’s fluid, every day is a different day. We don’t have, thank God, routine. To be honest, I avoid routines. I don’t like it, to be honest.

00:25:34
The thing is, how can we adapt ourselves, even myself, to her way to do things, and her way to understand how our things should be done. So it’s, to be honest, on a daily basis, every day we try to improve as much as possible. When one of the most important thing

00:25:52
Bear in mind is to be transparent, have an open dialogue, in order to say something or to listen to something, and always trying to respect all differences or anything. So one of the key things for a good relation with the EA, PA, call it whatever you want, with the director, the manager, whatever you call it, is dialogue. Open and transparent relation. Otherwise it will never work. From both sides. Because sometimes my side could be acting somehow with adrenaline and speeding and blah, blah, blah. And without understanding or putting the shoes off the other side.

00:26:34
After some period, the relation is terrible and you don’t know why. And at the same time, the other side must be clear enough to say, sorry, it’s not working.

00:26:45
I can’t understand. I need more information. And so and so. So the dialogue, the clear understanding is one of the key things. By the way, in all relations. It could be friends, it could be husband, it could be parents, it could be anything.

00:26:59
Talking about dialogue, how often do you have a touch base?

00:27:01
Quite often, believe me. No, no, really.

00:27:03
And you travel a lot, so do you actually take a phone call or do you prefer any other communication channel with Paula?

00:27:12
It could be WhatsApp, it could be fire, it could be video, it could be shouting, it could be fire sometimes, it could be anything.

00:27:20
Very good.

00:27:22
Well, we often talk in our profession about assistants being leaders. And some assistants still have a hard time taking ownership regarding, am I a leader? My manager is a leader. How can I be a leader as an assistant? But what would you say?

00:27:38
Can assistants be leaders, Louis?

00:27:40
They must be leaders. Otherwise, it doesn’t work. One of the key things on my side is to delegate properly things.

00:27:46
To delegate, you must have a good to rely on.

00:27:52
You must give all the tools to this person to be able to perform whatever she must do. For example, Paula has the full powers to manage my account.

00:28:02
Of course, it’s the personal account, it’s not the investment account. But then, in a good way, she has all the liberty to manage, to withdraw, to pay, whatever. Yes.

00:28:17
Which is, come on, a big thing.

00:28:18
Yes, it is.

00:28:20
So this is thanks to her, not to me, to be honest.

00:28:23
Yes. Thanks to her. Sorry. I was absolutely gut smacked when the bank manager writes an email, so this will give Paola all the powers. And he said, absolutely. I’m thinking, oh my goodness. It took me a week. I had to settle for a week and then sent him a one line and said, thank you for the trust because it’s all about trust, isn’t it? It is.

00:28:44
There’s a point. Yes. But if you wanted to give…

00:28:47
the position as a leader, you’re saying to anyone, you must give the proper tools. So I’ll give you a small example, which are the responsibilities of someone like Paula. So if I want her to perform, to pay this, this, this, this, this, how she will do it. She can’t come to me each time, it doesn’t work.

00:29:06
Absolutely, yes.

00:29:07
Because I’m doing myself and I have my duties and so on. So one of the principles, the key things to do, you can rely, you can trust, give the proper tools, let the people work. So you give the proper instructions, that’s why you must have a good relation and open dialogue to see, is it clear what I ask? Is it not?

00:29:30
Tell me, because maybe I wasn’t clear, maybe I was just speedy or whatever.

00:29:36
So they must be leaders, otherwise it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work.

00:29:40
Absolutely. So I heard that trust is very important for both of you in this role. How would you describe, Paula, the leadership style of Louis?

00:29:50
It’s open.

00:29:52
And one of the things that really touched me the most is, as you know, I work on different projects outside work.

00:30:00
And Louis came to me and said, do you know why do I support in everything that you do after work on your projects? Yes. Because I take time off work to do that. And it’s quite stressful because it’s two jobs or three sometimes at the same time.

00:30:17
And he said, because I like to work with the person that is motivated and I can see that that does that to you. And, you know, you thrive. That’s fantastic. So long as it doesn’t, you know, overlap. Absolutely. The work that you do here, I will always support you. So that, for me, is leadership at its best. It’s him expecting the best of me here, which he does. I believe me. He knows everything.

00:30:47
Even if I forget, he will not. I never had a boss like that.

00:30:52
And he knows. And sometimes he’s saying, oh, I don’t know. And I know that he actually knows. He’s just trying to make me feel good about certain things.

00:31:01
And he’s absolutely clear about his instructions. He’s absolutely clear about what he wants.

00:31:09
the excellence of service that we provide here, not just for him, but for the family that we serve. And he’s absolutely clear, Diana, about what he doesn’t want. And I think the leadership that Louis does to me gives me the space to grow into my own leadership, into leading my role. And I think that that is beautiful. It is.

00:31:36
One of the things that I learned from my…

00:31:41
because I’m only 39 years old, but I started when I was 18, 19 years old to work, was to be surrounded by good people, people you can rely, people where you can share good or bad things. That’s life.

00:31:56
And also that you must give the tools and to explore, in a good sense, the talents of each one. We all have a talent. It could be anything. And how to explore it, how to bring this out.

00:32:10
Because everyone, maybe, it’s so common you see people in their 50s, 60s, discovering to do whatever they always were wishing to do, but they didn’t have time. Which is sad. In my case, I like to give the people as much as possible the tools that they can explore themselves as soon as possible, in a good sense, of course.

00:32:29
And to be honest, I’ve already lost a few good people because then they discover they want to do something else, which is fine. Thank God. Because people, if they intend to work at my side, it’s not for me at my side, which is quite an important detail, is…

00:32:49
please be happy be happy not gonna be happy on the stupid way in the sense that makes sense for you that this you see that yes you meet you you get it home okay I did a hard job it was a painful day but I’m happy because I like what I do yes I’m happy to wake up in the morning morning Monday morning it is raining it is cold but thank God I’m going to work and then so and so so

00:33:14
Having said that, you must motivate people, you must give them the tools, and to bring out whatever they have inside. And if somehow people decide to do something else, which is fine, because they are following what? Their purpose in life. So I wanted to give people whatever they must have, in the good sense of the word, in order to get their purpose in life that’s why i can perform my duties whatever because i i hope at least i try as much as possible to be surrounded by people that are following the purpose absolutely i’m sure that this motivates you as well so what inspires you uh in addition

00:33:52
That’s a very good question. It inspires me what I like to do. I like to serve. I have my clients, so I’m really satisfied when I can serve them above their expectations. If you ask me something, I would always do an extra thing. Why that? Because this little extra thing that makes the difference. Because when you do whatever you were told for, let’s call it like this, it’s quite obvious.

00:34:21
So, you know, they’re paying me for that specific thing.

00:34:26
There’s no magic on it. There’s nothing on that. So go always a little bit beyond.

00:34:33
If you ask me to come at 9 o’clock, I’ll be here at 8.45. Yeah.

00:34:37
It’s a small thing. If you ask me, just a glass of water, I’ll bring you a glass of water plus a little chocolate. Always a little surprise in a positive way or something else. So in this, then you start to do small things and you add a little bit more, then you get more connection, relation, and everything should be much more positive on the mid and long term. All relations are to the mid-long term, not short term. Short term doesn’t make any sense. Nothing, to be honest. So when you look

00:35:07
In the long term, then you can create solid connections with human people and communities, companies, whatever you have around you.

00:35:19
And it’s true because that’s part of your brand and having a brand is important nowadays, especially when we talk about digitization and all the things that are happening with industry 4.0 out there.

00:35:30
Speaking about inspiration, Paula is a well-respected industry ambassador and highly appreciated throughout the international network of office professionals.

00:35:39
Are you aware, Louis, of all the wonderful projects she’s doing outside of this role, such as her engagement for Angola?

00:35:48
I’m more than aware because each time she has something, she has my full support. Could be to have more time to perform it, could be eventually something that I can sponsor, could be just sometimes have a chat about it. So I’m more than happy to support, to give a chat, to give an input or anything else.

00:36:06
So quite often she asked me, I have some time for this, for this. I always say, please go for it. No worries.

00:36:14
And sometimes ideas. I remember when we went to the World Administrator Summit, I got a round of applause because I told them what Louis thought about the admin of the future, the assistant of the future.

00:36:27
This was a very special moment. I recorded the video, remember? I hope you saw it, Louis.

00:36:32
I did, but I think one of the most important things is is the human part. Because you can have all the digital, technical, iPhones, I, I, I, this, I, that. The point is, human being will always be human being with emotions. You can have emotion. Okay, you can develop AI. Okay, forget. You can have feelings. You can have intuition.

00:36:56
Intuition you can’t explain. All you have, you don’t have. There’s a point. I don’t even know how to explain it, to be honest. The point is, you must have people that just look in the eyes and say, okay, I got it. I’ll do it.

00:37:08
So, that’s it.

00:37:10
And that’s a very interesting fact because actually I meet a lot of managers out there who say, well, let’s see, maybe in a few years my job or the job of my assistant can be taken over by Alexa. or by Ziri, or by all the other digital assistants out there. So what is your view on this one? You said emotions are important, I’m sure emotional intelligence… I hate Alexa.

00:37:30
Someone gave me, I gave to someone else. See? Why that? I don’t want to have a digital voice in my house, in my office, in my whatever.

00:37:38
You gave it to me actually.

00:37:39
I gave it to you?

00:37:41
Oh really? So you have an assistant, Paula. Oh well, that’s interesting.

00:37:45
I forgot, I completely forgot that.

00:37:48
the point is i do that the thing was i don’t want to have a digital thing to say thing at home or office whatever uh controlling my life yes but one of the key things in my life is privacy yes i know i say that we are no profile yes so i avoid all kind of expositions or whatever i don’t

00:38:11
This is part of my family culture, let’s call it this. Yes. And having said that, this is to where all the data is going to, who is managing this, and I don’t like it. So we already had too much iPhones and whatever controlling all this and that, which is already too much for me, to be honest. But having said that, I think the position has fallen all the years that I have in team leaders and so on.

00:38:38
human being, connections, relations, intuition, see a little bit beyond, things that you can develop all the AI, whatever you call it, but you don’t have the little thing on the human side.

00:38:54
Exactly. Sensitivity, a wonderful word, and emotional intelligence, creativity. I’m sure Paula needs to be super creative every single day to perform this role.

00:39:03
One of the most important things also I look for is emotional intelligence.

00:39:07
Yes, yes.

00:39:08
I have seen a lot of good people with MPAs, with masters, blah, blah, whatever you call it, name it, but with zero emotional intelligence. Then it doesn’t work at all.

00:39:19
See? Yeah.

00:39:21
So let’s look into the new year. 2020 is around the corner. So what are your working goals?

00:39:29
You should have seen the sign of Louis, he was handing over to Paula, which is very generous.

00:39:35
I am the chief, so I say this is going to happen. It’s going to be a very busy year for me on the project side.

00:39:43
Some of it Louis already knows, some of it it’s coming, came this week and I’m trying to manage and to have a meeting with him to tell him what’s going to happen. okay no one knows some things i cannot talk about yet okay but um in terms of work i think it’s it’s that moment that i um told you in the beginning it’s the same synergy it’s us fitting in together and then from now it’s going to be magic that’s the only thing i can tell you well magic sounds always good in my case all the goals are are to be more efficient

00:40:20
always to find the balance between the personal life and the professional life. Because there’s always something that I say to my friends is we have three, a man and a woman have always three times for the family, the couple, and yourself. So how to balance all the three things.

00:40:41
Good luck is a chance for all of us.

00:40:42
Yes.

00:40:43
So always trying to find a proper balance about this.

00:40:46
Yes.

00:40:46
Also trying to find a proper balance between how can I learn more things. So I’d love to go to more conferences, short courses, whatever. I think this is quite important. You must always study even more. So to read more, to listen more, get more information. And I have my filters and I make my own analysis. Yes. So one of the key things I think in life is

00:41:10
To be a good listener.

00:41:12
Yes, I love that. And also be a continuous learner.

00:41:15
That’s why we have two ears and one mouth, as we say in Brazil. To listen more, to talk less. You see that as I talk a little bit. But the thing is, try to listen more to absorb information, to process it. So to answer your question, try to find always a proper balance between everything that I do, that I must perform,

00:41:36
get more information, listen, study as much as possible, and be always efficient in all my duties.

00:41:45
Very good. And I also love the way people work with mentors. I mean, Paul is a mentor for a lot of assistants out there, especially in Angola. Have you ever worked with a mentor, Louis?

00:41:54
I have a mentor. Fantastic. I have quite a few, to be honest.

00:41:56
Very good.

00:41:57
So…

00:42:00
It’s been 15 years and I have a special coach in Brazil that I use sometimes depending on the cycle of the business or whatever. So I access him as much as possible. I have other people also that I can rely on and chat with. I can call mentors, I can call board members.

00:42:20
Right.

00:42:20
It depends on the name you put in it. There are several people that I can rely and to ask proper questions and to take notes and also take as an example. We must have people that we admire to take as a good example and chat and be close.

00:42:37
Right.

00:42:37
Not only virtual people. There are people who like to buy books about Bill Gates, whatever. This is great. Please do it. But you must be connected to those people. You must talk to them. You must be… Otherwise, it’s just books. So the people that I can have a connection are people that I really know, have intimacy, and I can say any kind of things.

00:43:02
And to receive the feedback, good or bad.

00:43:05
Yes.

00:43:05
Which is good.

00:43:06
I love that.

00:43:07
So to be honest, I like the negative part in a good sense, of course.

00:43:10
The constructive one.

00:43:10
The constructive way. You know, please challenge me.

00:43:13
Exactly.

00:43:13
Tell me you’re wrong. Yes. Why I’m wrong? Because this and this and this. Okay, thank you for that. Yes. So this is important. It’s a way to…

00:43:20
Absolutely. I had this just yesterday when I was on stage here in London, when I was speaking, and there was a fellow German in the audience who came to me and he said, I really enjoyed your talk, but can I give you a recommendation? Can I give you some advice? And I love that exactly. I don’t like when people are clapping on your shoulders and say, well, I love that. I love that. I need those who are brave enough to come up and say, hey.

00:43:44
On the companies that I manage, the board members,

00:43:48
The one of the things that I avoid the most, and I avoid the most of all of that, I avoid completely is the yes man. This is terrible. This destroys all values for anything. Could be destroy the company, destroy yourself, destroy your soul. So the thing is, how to have people that are positive people by the way, proactive,

00:44:10
with a lot of substance, and they say, I like, I don’t like, because of this.

00:44:14
Exactly.

00:44:15
And Lou, if you don’t like, that’s your problem. That’s my position. So this is important.

00:44:19
And this is why a sounding board is so important to have you around, because that’s how we grow.

00:44:25
And he actually listens, because sometimes I give him advice here and there, in a bunch of situations, and he actually goes and comes back and says, actually, we’re right, Paola.

00:44:35
Of course.

00:44:36
And that, for me, it’s so important.

00:44:40
Working side to side.

00:44:42
Yeah, it’s always good to have a reflection. And this is why an assistant and a manager need to be good sparring partners to actually having this level of trust to be able to give that feedback in both ways.

00:44:53
So let’s look back into the time when you actually looked for your new assistant. So five years almost now.

00:45:04
What was the picture in your head when you searched for an executive assistant?

00:45:08
Someone that was mature, experienced, discreet, bilingual.

00:45:19
What else? Flexible.

00:45:22
Pretty much like this. Someone that, of course, had already worked with big companies or had performed with people with my profile. So it’s pretty much like this.

00:45:34
And I know that you went through a recruitment agency, and there was, I think, five interviews before you hired Paula.

00:45:43
Yeah, maybe. There was something like this.

00:45:44
And so what was the first instinct you had when you met her? Did you feel already that she is the one?

00:45:50
He met me on my last one.

00:45:54
The one before last, because the last one was just a negotiation. But Louis only participated on the last one, the penultimate interview.

00:46:06
Yeah, my MD did all the first meetings and so on, and I stepped in on the last one.

00:46:15
in order to be sure that this was reasonable or not. They were pulling someone else, I forgot the name.

00:46:21
I think Portuguese also, no? I think so. No? And when I met Paula, I had a really good impression. It was someone discreet, really polite, and listening properly, and say, okay, no, I’m in. I think you said something in the sense that just give me time in order to understand, to absorb, everything as much as possible. It was something really peaceful, quiet, respectful.

00:46:50
Was there any application coming in from a male assistant?

00:46:55
What do you mean?

00:46:56
A male assistant.

00:46:57
For me?

00:46:58
Yes.

00:46:59
I have male or female, it doesn’t matter. In Brazil, I have two years that are male.

00:47:05
Good.

00:47:06
So, male or female, for me, that’s fine.

00:47:07
Very good. Very good.

00:47:09
Of course, at the beginning of Pola, I had to take care of my, maybe… You can’t talk with women as you talk with men.

00:47:18
Oh, yes.

00:47:19
I agree.

00:47:21
But after some time, at the end of the day, you can be more spontaneous. Let’s say like this. Yes.

00:47:28
On the good way, please.

00:47:30
So we talked a bit about industry 4.0, the automation, the disruption coming to, sadly, a lot to our industry. KPMG just had to let 300 assistants go, which was horrible, horrible news we received in this industry. And we are rooting for our colleagues out there to find a good job. So a lot of these things are happening as a constant change in this profession.

00:47:54
And there are many, many challenges out there who influence the future of work. And we’ve been talking about skills before. So what do you see and expect in the job description of a future assistant?

00:48:05
I think one of the important things is always provide solutions. I see a lot of people that are not EA anymore, PA, whatever you call it,

00:48:17
because they were just taking notes to book a restaurant, or to pay a bill, or things that doesn’t bring any value, let’s call it this. Because to book simple things, you have all the apps, Alexis, you know what I mean? And then you’re not adding value. Exactly. You just have people working there, say, good morning, hi, Mr. Blah Blah, and where do you want to eat your steak? It doesn’t make any sense. So you need people that you can give important tasks that add value to the company and to yourself. There’s a point. But this also depends on my side to provide or to ask these kind of things.

00:49:04
So, Paula, I don’t know if I’m right, but

00:49:08
I don’t ask you much silly things, to be honest.

00:49:13
Am I right? It’s the responsibility that you have in managing a massive family and business. And of course, you feel that not only you have that responsibility, but you have the trust of your manager in handing it to you. So you don’t just do the small bits. You do the big responsibilities. You have staff that you look after. You have… Just before coming in, I was organizing things with the driver and errands to be done at the residence. I come here, I talk to the bank, all sorts of things that I do and he doesn’t need to worry about because he has a bigger job to do.

00:50:04
Allow me to, it’s not a bigger job. It’s not big or small. We all have a job.

00:50:09
And I need in order to perform my job to focus on it. But if I need to focus on my things, I need to delegate. So it’s not big or small. I need to share my duties in order to be more efficient in what I must deliver. Right.

00:50:26
He’s being modest. But thank you, Louis.

00:50:29
No, no, but really, this is important.

00:50:32
We all have duties. Something big for me is smaller for you, which is big for me is smaller for you. That’s fine. We always have our view on that. The thing is, and to get back to your question, is the EAs, PAs, whatever, must perform something that adds value.

00:50:48
Yes.

00:50:49
Not things that are, to be honest…

00:50:51
Exactly. Day-to-day, they come on.

00:50:54
We all can pick up the phone. Come on. We all can send a WhatsApp or whatever.

00:50:58
Especially the millennial generation who’s tech-savvy. They know how to do that. They know how to handle the apps indeed.

00:51:04
I see all the traditional companies.

00:51:08
They used to have two or three EAs buy it. by direct. This is nonsense. It’s because people are more concerned to wear a tie than to do anything else. So take off your tie, put on your jeans and move in.

00:51:24
Don’t be so distant from reality, from the streets and from what people are really thinking and moving.

00:51:30
And get surrounded by people that add value.

00:51:34
I love this term. And I always, that’s what I say in my seminars as well. What is your value proposition? And what impact do you have in your role? And here we are again. This is why assistants, especially the future assistants, are leaders. Yes. Right? Absolutely.

00:51:49
So we’re coming to an end.

00:51:51
And of course, how can I not ask you to say something in Portuguese? Since I have the language specialist in front of me here. And we’re going to have an international audience that is listening to the podcast. And my brother is married to a beautiful woman from Sao Paulo. And of course, the young golden girls will for sure also tune in to the podcast. So I would be very, very honored if we have a few words in Portuguese.

00:52:20
Oh, what can I say? Muito obrigado.

00:52:23
Foi um prazer estar aqui e partilhar a nossa experiência. Eu acredito que crescendo, olhando para o futuro, o papel de uma assistente é de facto de liderança e cabe-nos a nós abraçar isso e caminhar para o futuro com confiança.

00:52:46
Do you understand Portuguese?

00:52:47
No, certainly not.

00:52:48
What did you say, Louis?

00:52:51
I’ll let you discover in the conference. Guys, thank you very much for your time. The position of assistants is very important and relevant for the professional director who is going to deliver what he promises to his clients. So, please, believe in the position of leadership of the assistants or of all the assistants. give them tools, study a lot, always remember to deliver above the expected, in a discreet, fast, efficient way, and always keep the dialogue open, frank and constructive. Thank you.

00:53:32
Thank you so much. Now I have to get back to my sister-in-law and have it translated. But it sounded very, very nice. And I thank you both for taking the time on this morning here in London, especially Louis. I know you have a busy schedule.

00:53:46
Sorry to interrupt, but everyone is busy. Yeah. All the time I see people say, oh, you’re busy. No, I’m busy. You’re busy. Everyone is busy.

00:53:53
Yes, we are.

00:53:54
So we all are busy. We all have a lot of stuff to do, even more in December, thanks to Santa Claus.

00:54:01
And the thing is, the thing is not to be busy, to be efficient.

00:54:06
Yes.

00:54:07
And you have the tools in order to delegate, in order to perform properly, in order to do a little bit more that the clients, the family, the friend expected, to be honest.

00:54:19
Yes. So let’s have an efficient 2020. Thank you so much to both of you. All the best. Thank you.

00:54:27
You’re listening to the Leader Assistant Podcast.

Ep 378: Former Personal Assistant to Archbishop Desmond Tutu – Atrayah Janhe

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 31 May 2026 15:23:16 +0000

Join Diana Brandl for an inspiring spotlight episode of Executive Office Insights with Atrayah Janhe, former Personal Assistant to Archbishop Desmond Tutu. Atrayah shares her diverse career path – from her start as a secretary and policewoman in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) to managing the Arch’s office during his transition to retirement.

She offers crucial insights into the evolution of the assistant role, arguing that while technology advances skills, human connection and Emotional Intelligence (EQ) are vital qualities often missed in today’s fast-paced, remote work world. Discover the Arch’s cherished routines (including hot chocolate and twice-daily tea times), the power of servant leadership, and why embracing the courage to “jump” into new opportunities is the key to becoming a Leader Assistant.

CONNECT WITH ATRAYAH

Atrayah on LinkedIn

ABOUT ATRAYAH

Atrayah Janhe works remotely across the UK, Europe, and South Africa, supporting leaders in distributed and fast-moving environments. With over 20 years of international experience, including five years as Personal Assistant to Archbishop Desmond Tutu, this practice is grounded in discretion, diplomacy, and mature judgement within high-trust settings.

Born in Rhodesia, departed Zimbabwe and settled in South Africa in 1981. From Secretarial Studies to Police Woman during the Rhodesian Bush War, Atrayah became the Personal Secretary to an executive in the travel sector, thereafter relocating to South Africa.

From admin & fitness instructor to PA & Campaign Manager to a Member of Parliament during the 1989 General Elections leading up to the release of Nelson Mandela from Robben Island, she has worked as a radio presenter; facilitated corporate workshops in Emotional Intelligence; lived in the UK as a PA Carer to high profile individuals before becoming Archbishop Desmond Tutu’s Personal Assistant in January 2015.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant Podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.

00:00:28
The Leader Assistant podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

00:00:42
Take a look at the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/378.

00:00:49
Hello, everybody. Guess where I am sitting at the moment. It’s beautiful Cape Town in South Africa. I’m actually in room 805 at a beautiful hotel out in Century City. And I’m not alone. Obviously, you can imagine I have a guest next to me, and I’m glad she accepted the invitation to join me in my tiny little hotel room here. I threw my husband out. He’s working downstairs and we had a great chat already and I can’t wait to introduce to you my guest here because she has a lot to tell, not only from the previous role she was in, but also what she’s doing right now. A great advocate also for the assistant profession and the VA profession. You’re going to hear more about her. And I hope I won’t make a mistake now. I have to look into my notes to pronounce a beautiful name. Welcome to the podcast, Atrayah Janhe. That is correct, yes. I’m so glad I didn’t mess it up already. Good morning and welcome to you. Glad you made it.

00:01:43
How are you today?

00:01:45
ah Diana it’s uh it’s Diane or Diana I don’t know but I should clarify that Diana uh yes it’s a I I work up with a balance to my step obviously and uh you know like when one is preparing for any type of an interview you know you prepare notes and you read through it like over and over and then you know it’s like then you get to the the interview and it’s like now what

00:02:06
So I’ve decided actually I’m going to put my notes to one side and just speak from my heart and just, you know, memory, really. So I’m delighted to be here. Thank you so very much for having invited me. Absolutely. A privilege.

00:02:21
I’ve been inspired by your story and I’ve been, you know,

00:02:26
through mutual friends and people from the industry, it’s wonderful to get to finally know you because social media offers a way of connection. But when you sit in front of someone and when you look them in the eyes and you have a chat together, that’s the moment where you connect. So there’s great opportunities out there for online networking, but the real magic happens when we sit face to face like we do now. So I’m sure that everyone was

00:02:51
Probably in parallel, starting to Google your name, because what did Diana just say? How do you pronounce that name? So maybe you need to help us a little bit.

00:03:00
Where does the name come from?

00:03:01
Okay, so my name, Atrayah, the first thing I will share is that Atrayah Jeanette, my name, the name Atrayah, A-T-R-A-Y-A-H.

00:03:11
It’s a sound tone. And it has a significant meaning. So much like indigenous tribes or indigenous people, they have ancestral names. And when you actually ask, let’s say, an African, an Uber driver, like I do all the time when I’m driving around Cape Town. I don’t own a car. I Uber everywhere.

00:03:29
I love Uber. Yeah.

00:03:30
And I always love my drivers. They’re just such personalities. And the one thing I’ll always ask them is like, what is your name? And they’ll say Raymond or Joe or, you know, like a very westernized name. I go, no, no, no. Tell me what your ancestral name is. And then they’ll name it off. And I go, oh, my goodness, how beautiful is that? Why don’t you actually introduce your name like that? And then they’ll give me all the reasons why. And I go, no, but it helps other people. Yes. develop neural networks in their brain because they’ve got to really figure out, like, how do I say that?

00:04:00
So Atreia actually originates, it’s from the Azerite tribes. The language is Anahazi, and it predates the Sumerian culture, which predates the Jesuit time, the Christ period. So it’s ancient. It’s ancient lineage.

00:04:15
The tribes themselves migrated out of Mesopotamia down into Coral, South America, and from there migrated up into Africa. And of course, there’s been disbursement as all migrations happen.

00:04:27
And here I am, I was born in Rhodesia, which people now know as Zimbabwe, like landlocked. And I often go, how did I end up there? You know, quite there, all places. So yeah, so my name, the meaning of my name is soul song. So when you say my name, it’s like singing to me on a deeply spiritual level.

00:04:46
It is. And I remember the first time I saw that name on LinkedIn, I was like, how do you pronounce it? So it’s indeed very beautiful. And you mentioned Zimbabwe already because I felt like, are you a native Cape Town lady here? I mean, you’ve been in the city for how long now?

00:05:01
Gosh, well, I’ve been in South Africa since 1981.

00:05:06
I was born in Rhodesia, and obviously we had the Rhodesian Bush War. I was a policewoman. I’d actually, my secretarial, well, the history of my secretarial start was from college. I did a secretarial diploma. That was in the 70s.

00:05:20
I did my first job out of college. I lasted one month. It was a dismal office space with very old men. And I just, I really didn’t enjoy any minutes of that time that I was there. And I was like, this is not for me. So, you know, the environment also impacts decision-making. And that was definitely a decision that I was never going to be a secretary again. Who wanted that, right? Spent my first salary, every cent, and then I signed up to join the police force. Yeah. Because I come from a military background.

00:05:47
Totally different industry.

00:05:48
Yeah, totally different industry. You know, I’d also been in the health and fitness game, you know, from the age of 16. So that’s also part of my background. But, you know, I was on duty looking after all the high-profile people, VIPs. The night the Rhodesian flag came down, Bob Marley electrocuted himself on the stage. And then the Zimbabwean flag went up. And I was like…

00:06:11
Okay, so I resigned out of the police force, and then I went into, I changed city, went to another city, and then I became the private secretary to the national sales manager of a large national travel agency. Okay. And that was really my first, let’s say, official position, doing admin secretary. In those days, you weren’t called a peer, you were a secretary. Yeah.

00:06:36
We’re talking a long time ago. Now we have over 160 titles according to the Global Skills Matrix out there. It’s incredible. It is incredible. We’re going to talk about your opinion and how the profession has changed, and I’m very excited to hear about that, going back in your early stages of being a secretary and, of course, the work you’ve been doing in the past years. So would you call South Africa home now?

00:06:58
Oh, absolutely. No doubt about it. I feel very at home here.

00:07:02
You know, from the moment that we landed, I mean, I arrived here in this country out of Rhodesia, Zimbabwe, you know, just slash that with a backslash there. And I came with a couch.

00:07:16
I think we had $500. Okay.

00:07:18
And maybe, I think, maybe a bed. I was with my fiancé. You know, we left the country. My parents followed after that. And we landed up in Johannesburg. That’s where we started out. Okay.

00:07:28
So even in Hillbrow, of all places, I mean, you mentioned Hillbrow and Joburg. Now people are like, what? It’s like a no-go zone at the moment.

00:07:39
But then, again, we are talking a while ago in the 80s. It was really okay.

00:07:45
It was an okay space to be. It was safe. It was a vibey place.

00:07:51
And that’s really how I started my life in South Africa. We had to start from absolute scratch.

00:07:59
And, you know, I literally, when I first arrived in South Africa, obviously, you know, you job hunt, and I went up to a public relations company that was in a building that on the bottom level was a health and fitness center. So I went up and I did this interview at this public relations company, but it was all females.

00:08:21
And I was like, so from all men as a secretary to all females in public relations, no, that’s not right.

00:08:29
so it’s amazing how your brain works you know it’s like holy wow I used to actually think that way but I actually was I declined the offer of the job I went downstairs walked into the gym and the owners for some reason they were drawn to me when we chatted and they said well we’re actually looking for something to run our whole administrative side and we’ll train you up to be a professional aerobics instructor well I come from a fitness background I was like oh wow what an amazing And yes, I just put my hand up. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I’m in. I’m in. I’m totally in. No hesitation. It was a good move, actually.

00:09:03
So would you say that you are a person who listens to stomach feelings rather than the head voice that is in you? Yeah.

00:09:12
I think there’s a time you have to use your head and really be very IQ based, especially on the financial side. I mean, your heart can tell you all sorts of things, but it doesn’t necessarily lead to a successful long-term outcome that’s sustainable. So I think there is merit to IQ, but most of my decisions are driven or initiated by

00:09:35
an intuition, a feel.

00:09:38
This feels right. If I feel right with this person, then I’ll have a block with another person. I like this environment. Oh, I don’t like that environment.

00:09:44
And we chatted about this earlier, of finding the right matches. If it’s professional, if it’s private, if it’s the opportunity of saying no to certain things, that it gives us a good feeling of knowing that it was meant to be a no, right? It doesn’t need to be a yes all the time.

00:10:01
So I was curious to find out, you know, what is the stronger voice in you? Is it the stomach or is it the head?

00:10:08
My husband and you just met him briefly downstairs. He’s the head and I’m more the stomach here. Oh, well, that’s a good balance. It is a good balance. That’s a great balance. That’s harmony. Sometimes he’s like, you know, listen to your head voice in that moment because the stomach might not be enough always. Exactly. Well, that’s symbiosis, right? Totally. Absolutely. Yeah. So you just mentioned that you started your career as an assistant very early in the 80s. And so what do you remember back then? We were all called secretaries. We were into admin stuff and admin coordination and organization, filing. We had tons of paper around us. Of course, all different ages back then. And don’t forget the typewriter. Yes.

00:10:50
Computers didn’t exist then, right? It was all typewriter and you had your carbon copy and you had your typics. Yes, of course.

00:10:57
How can I not mention that? And everything was faxed. There was no instant messaging. Totally. Did you learn shorthand? I learned shorthand. Yes, shorthand. Yeah, yeah.

00:11:06
I never used it, but I learned it.

00:11:08
So what were your thoughts back then in the profession? And what do you see now? How it changed over all these decades now when we are so into the future-proof world out there?

00:11:21
Well, I think, first of all, as a secretary and female, one can’t negate or disregard the societal impact or perception. Back then, you were a female, you were young, and you were a secretary. You were like a nobody in the larger scheme of things, in the larger context of a company.

00:11:42
The relationship, really, the dynamic was with the national sales manager. And he was great. I really liked him. He got on very, very well. I loved his family. They welcomed me. And a wife is very important. I think as a PA, you always have to bear in mind, if you’re working for a man, your greatest ally in that professional relationship is the partner to the boss that you report to and support. I can’t emphasize that enough. The relationship…

00:12:09
to be developed with the partner is a crucial, for me, a crucial step in having success in the world that you are in.

00:12:18
But going back to my role, I loved it. I really did. I left the police force.

00:12:24
It was a completely different experience I had a beautiful view onto a park, and I’m all about open spaces. So it just bred to my – or spoke to me on a different level that wasn’t, you know, like just business. So I love going to work in the mornings, and it was like, you know, bye, and we’d had a great day. And it was. It was diary management. We didn’t call it that at the time. It was making phone calls. It was speaking to customers and taking shorthand. Yeah. And doing reports and, yes. But, you know, there was no, like, you know, editing and things. You didn’t have a machine to kind of do all that, which you do today. So, you know, in many ways, I think that there’s, you know, again, it’s kind of like evolution, isn’t it? You can’t look back to that and say, if only we still had that, or back then to look to the future going, I wish I had that. It was what it was, and it is what it is.

00:13:15
However, I would say that in the workplace environment, there was more for human connection.

00:13:25
It was more about collaboration, clear lines, transparency, and heart. I find that a lot of those aspects are missed today because we’re so reliant

00:13:38
on instant messaging, which creates just all that by itself. You are in constant demand. You’re expected to answer within seconds. It’s like stopping at a robot these days and the robot has just gone green and people are hooting around. Same thing. We’ve become so, everything must happen like now. So patience has gone.

00:13:58
Listening skills barely exist, and where they do, that’s magic.

00:14:03
That’s really a magical quality to have, an arch. We’ll speak about his grace in a little while, but that was my learning from him, is the talent or the skill to listen. And observe. And observe, yes, of course. Well, listening allows you to observe, right? Because you’ve paused. It’s so true. Yeah, yeah. So that’s an inherent factor to that. Mm-hmm. But in terms of from then to now, I think that the human connection has been so diminished. We’ve literally lost part of ourselves because we’ve become so reliant on machinery, AI.

00:14:40
You do a document and you do a control A if you’re on a Mac like I am. It highlights the whole thing and you go justify and the whole thing gets justified. It’s not like you’re a typewriter and having to like, how do I get that to end there? So I think that The excitement is gone. It’s all very driven by IQ, instant responses, must be this, must be perfect. It’s like everybody’s trying to take a breath.

00:15:04
And we have tons of windows open in our computer, and there’s one messenger, and there’s one email coming in, there’s a phone call coming in. And now, of course, the remote work. So we deal with people through a webcam. And so what do you think, how can heart respond?

00:15:21
happen this way I mean how do we stay closely connected and how do we deal with conflicts when we look at someone in the webcam and we don’t get to see these people for a couple of weeks but we’ll we have a conflict to solve any advice from you how would you see the situation as an assistant specifically

00:15:40
Well, I think that really comes down to the element of emotional intelligence, right? You know, self-awareness. You know how you feel on a bad day. You know how you feel from a lack of sleep. You know what you feel like when you’ve had an instant message which gives you really bad news. And the reactive process. Do you have fight, flight, or do you freeze? So if it applies to you, with EQ, you can identify or at least intuit. I suppose that’s obviously individually whether a person has intuition or not. But I think we can all see or we sense something. We might not name it, but we do know.

00:16:17
So when you know that about yourself and you see that in another person and you know where they’re at, there’s such an opportunity there. To connect with that person. I mean, to really stop and say, how are you? And to then shut up, like zip the lips, pause, stop walking, and actually listen to what they tell you back. Because we are on such a rote. Have you ever watched people, even I do it often, you’re walking down the street and you see somebody and you go, hey, how are you? And they’re actually carrying on walking. You’re carrying on walking and you’re going, oh, I’m fine. Meanwhile, they’ve actually moved on. And you’re going, wow, that was like no connection there, right?

00:16:54
It’s true.

00:16:54
Yeah. So I think that the ability to read where people are at happens because you know how to read yourself. And I think if you don’t even know yourself, how can you possibly know where other people are at?

00:17:09
And you know what makes me so sad is when I work with assistants in my coaching sessions and they keep telling me that their executive has no time to sit down with them, to go through the agenda, to go through the schedule, to make the travel planning.

00:17:21
And it makes me so sad because both parties should be aware that this is crucial time. And there should be, every day when it’s possible, a little check-in in the morning to really harmonize on the goals and to really… I have an understanding that’s what I try to get my executives into when I propose that I would love to have a check-in in the morning and a check-out in the evening just in order to find out did their priorities shift. And I need to be aware. I need to be the first person who needs to be aware because I manage the agenda. I manage the emails. I have the overview of everything.

00:18:02
So have you ever encountered these issues in your career that there was lacking of attention from your executives, not having the right moment of time for you to give all the information to you? Because now in the future of work, we get information through WhatsApp. We get information through a messenger because the executives don’t have the time to sit down with their assistants. Would you say it was much better back then?

00:18:29
That’s a good question. Can I pause that? I just want to step back. You asked me about what do you do when you’re on remote and there’s a conflict and how do you handle that? I think it really, with self-awareness, you have social awareness, is to actually ask the appropriate questions, to do a discovery without… that person’s feeling threatened or they’re being accused of something. I think that way you build back rapport and then you can, through open-ended questions, you can discover where they’re at and ask if there’s anything you can help them with. See what comes from that. That breaks down the barrier. I have found that myself. So I just wanted to address that and finish that point. Okay, so I’m so sorry, I’m going to have to ask you, just repeat the question.

00:19:11
So lack of time that the executives also, because they are also pressured with the new ways of working, they also have to manage their tools. And sometimes when they go back to their assistants and they say, well, I need to run to the next meeting, I don’t have time. So I always challenge my coaching clients to tell with a strong voice and let their executives know, yes, but I’m here responsible for your time. I’m your efficiency manager. I’m your productivity manager. If you don’t sit with me, we cannot work on it.

00:19:42
would you say it was easier back then without technology oh yes yeah it was much easier because the first thing you did is you took your boss a coffee or tea right with your pad and your pencil to do shorthand to take notes so I mean right there I mean to start the day you that’s the first thing that you did whether it was newspapers so like with the arch I would it would be like he’d arrive and we’d bring him a hot chocolate and all his newspapers would have been laid out and Then we would all, like, it was so cute. He would come in and the whole staff would literally line up and come up and give him a hug. Good morning. How beautiful. And then we’d make our way to his office. And it would be at that moment that I would say, is there anything that’s a priority? And he would say, not right now, dearie. Thank you. So it was all, and if he did, then he would just, you know, sort of give me a little bullet point, bullet list. Right. So I think that it depends.

00:20:30
I think it very much depends on the relationship.

00:20:34
I think if you, again, I’m going to say it again. If it’s all IQ, it’s all skills-based, it’s all task-driven, and there is no heart connection, there’s no relationship, there’s no communication, like just relaxed communication,

00:20:50
then I think right there is the biggest stumbling block that exists because you’re just like an AI Alexa. Exactly. You’re just in a human body. So, you know, it’s all by rote. It’s just a disconnect. And I feel that that is very much predominant in the industry today, whether that’s virtual or traditional. Right.

00:21:12
So I think the basis of… PA executive PA or virtual assistant or whatever other you know title that one carries at the end of the day you’re still a secretary bottom line is we’re all just full secretaries but you know a vaster skill set more technology to assist us in our proficiency and professionalism but

00:21:36
I think it’s about building the relationship with the person. So even if it’s IQ, even if it’s task driven, if you as the individual, sorry, I tend to draw.

00:21:44
No, I love what you say. Keep going.

00:21:47
So I think you, the individual with the title you hold, the bottom line is you have a relationship with that executive. Mm-hmm. That’s your primary interface point. So ask questions.

00:22:01
You make the pause point. You create the pause point.

00:22:05
You just bring him a cup of coffee or her a cup of coffee. I’m talking, obviously, this is a traditional role now because virtual, that wouldn’t work. But you can still send them a digital coffee image or whatever just to make that link. Because that’s the connection at the heart level, right? And ask the question. Don’t give that person a moment in time to ponder and make you feel like you’re wasting their time. It’s like, hi, Dennis. Okay, here’s your tea. I’ve just thought you might like this because you seem rushed today.

00:22:33
What’s a priority right now in this moment that I can take away and off your plate? Very good. But if we’re just so intimidated at the idea that, oh, he doesn’t want to talk to me, she doesn’t have time for me, well, that’s a story in your own head. So there’s a saying, when I used to teach or lecture in the EQ for leadership in corporates, one of the processes that we ran and through that was, if you have a challenge, if you have a problem,

00:22:58
And you are wanting to make that change. Because as long as you wait for somebody else to make the change, you could wait a very long time and then it never happens. You want change. The only person who can actually do that is, I hate to tell you this, you. You are the one to initiate. You are the one to motivate. You are the one to think outside the box.

00:23:18
So how do you create an awareness in another person that’s completely blind to the need for change? Well, you have to build the bridge. It’s about communication.

00:23:28
And one of the things in the leadership program was you’ve got to try 33 different approaches. What does Einstein say? What’s one of his famous sayings? You do the same thing the same way over and over and over again and expect a different result. Well, that’s some sort of insanity. I mean, I’m not sure I got the quote right, but the essence is there. So yeah, so if you’re trying to approach your boss the same way and saying, first of all, your body language is one of frustration, then your tone of voice is completely negative, then you’re short, you don’t use the right terminology, no, that’s not going to work, right? It just isn’t going to work. Absolutely. 33 different ways. I guarantee you by the time you’ve tried the fourth, fifth, sixth time, a different way, a different approach, it’s either going to work or you’ve got to realize that, do I want to stay in this job or do I want to find something else? Because it’s never going to change. That person doesn’t have that capacity. So it’s still a choice.

00:24:22
You’re not a victim. No one is ever a victim. There’s always a choice. And the choice is to make the choice to leave. The choice is to actually say something. The choice is to be silent in the moment and to listen. It’s still a choice. Nobody can tell me no one has a choice. Everyone has choice.

00:24:37
But we are sometimes so afraid to take a decision, right?

00:24:42
And I’ve seen assistants, not only assistants, people also in my closer community of friends, they stay in these toxic environments in their companies and they keep on telling me all these negative stories. And I always say to them, jump, you know, jump, even if you don’t have a solution yet.

00:25:00
You know, the moment you close the door, another one will open and you are not even aware of it now, which direction it may bring you.

00:25:07
So would you say that you are a person who loves to jump?

00:25:10
Oh, I love to jump. I’ve had to jump so many times, redefine myself. You know, I’ve had no consistency in traditional roles. I’ve been an entrepreneur. I’ve been a personal trainer, a fitness instructor. You know, I’ve run commercial and corporate facility gyms. I’ve appeared high net with people. I’ve worked for government in terms of the MP, the Minister of Parliament in 1989.

00:25:38
So I’ve been in corporate mining. It’s so diverse, but underpinning every single transition is the need for administration.

00:25:47
Whether in an entrepreneurial role, it’s a bit more expanded because you’re running now your own books, your finance, your marketing, your sales, because you’ve got to drive your own business. You all know this, Diana. Of course. You have your own business. Of course. Whereas in a job, and I think that’s the distinction. Yeah.

00:26:02
I mean, look, I still experience moments of fear. You know, it’s like I wouldn’t be a human being if I didn’t have moments of fear or like, oh, wow, is this the right decision?

00:26:13
But, you know, a decision is better than no decision. To sit in a static flight pattern, you know, it’s eventually that if you’re an airplane going around and around, you’re eventually going to run out of fuel and crash. Same thing if you’re rotating around and around and the job that you’ve ready to get up in the morning for that is like stressful.

00:26:33
You need to jump or you’ve got to do what I said just now and do 33 different approaches to try and make that connection and resolve the issue, resolve the situation so it’s better for you.

00:26:44
But I will say most people that are stuck in those patterns, it’s money, it’s finance. It’ll come down to either they’re single parents if we’re talking about ladies or They’re going through a divorce. They might be in a marriage and it’s not stable.

00:26:59
There might be just this free enterprising into virtual. And money, I think, drives the fear level or judgment from friends because you’re now working for this person in this corporation and it’s giving you some kind of status to let go of that. Well, then who am I now? Mm-hmm.

00:27:19
So fear is the thing that will keep you keeping people.

00:27:22
Absolutely, it’s blocking people. Yeah. I agree.

00:27:24
And it’s being able to identify, well, what is holding me here? And if you can’t list that out, then unfortunately you sleepwalking in your job. It really is just by right. Mm-hmm.

00:27:36
I’m very disconnected. I’m glad you’re a jumper as well. I love to jump as well. Yes. Oh, yeah. You know, when I was in the UK in 2020 after the Arvidsch, I ended my role with him in January in 2020. Went to the UK because I could see the pandemic coming in. I mean, you just have to look at news cycles and you can see what’s happening. I was like, oh my gosh. Okay. So, you know, my age wasn’t really in my favor. I am in South Africa. B-E-E-B-B-E-E. How many B’s and E’s? It’s just like, no, this wasn’t any longer a viable environment for me. Um,

00:28:11
And so I decided to go back to the UK, right at the height of the pandemic. I arrived, within five days I had COVID.

00:28:19
It was so bad that actually paramedics came in in the hazmat suits because we weren’t sure if I’d have to go in an ambulance. Fortunately, my O2, my oxygen levels were right on the line. So that was great. And I recovered in 10 days. Then I went into training, into the care industry. And it was such a good move. It was strategic, right? It was like, okay, I need to earn a salary. And I need to go somewhere where it’s going to be necessary for me to work. It’s not a luxury job. It’s not something that somebody can just go, sorry for you. My business is closing down. You no longer have relevance. I had to be relevant. And so that was the care industry.

00:28:54
Interesting.

00:28:55
So I did that for the year. And everywhere you had to have paperwork and you’re an essential worker. So you were classified as an essential worker. So it didn’t matter where I was going. I was always allowed to pass through.

00:29:06
county lines, et cetera, and go from one part of the country to another to look after these amazing people. I’ve always loved that role as a carer. I think it teaches you tremendous humility and servant leadership. That was one of the things of the archbishop, you know, servant leadership. It’s like you’re not just you. You’re you contributing to others and uplifting them and empowering them. So that was really why I also went back into caring was because of the influence of the arch.

00:29:37
So anyway, and then towards the end of that role, it was very interesting. They were introducing, this could be a bit controversial. I don’t mean to push anybody’s buttons, but they were introducing the vaccine and I was never going to have that vaccination. Experimental? Hell no.

00:29:51
No way. It wasn’t going to happen.

00:29:53
And I decided to come back to South Africa. I had no idea. I had no job.

00:29:57
I had no home.

00:29:58
I had no clue how to earn, how was I going to earn an income? But you know what? My freedom of choice,

00:30:05
meant more to me than being forced into a situation that I was not going to comply with. And so I wanted to respect the elderly. I wasn’t going to vaccinate. And so therefore, in that sort of age group, that’s very much what they were going to require. And I wanted to step away with grace. So I made the decision to come home. And I remember my daughter at the time going, you know, mom, you’re going to give up your UK pound, your sterling. I mean, good Lord, look at the currency exchange. I’m like, sweetheart, there is nothing more important than one’s own health. And I’m not going to risk that for the sake of a salary. So yeah, I resigned my role and I came back to South Africa. I moved in with my son who lives in our family home and he had to retire.

00:30:44
He had to adapt to his mom, you know, living in the house again. That was fun.

00:30:49
It was the other way around.

00:30:50
It was the other way around. He used to like kind of freak out and go, mom, mom, I still live with my mom. I’m like, no, sweetheart, you’ve got that wrong. It’s like, I am hosting my mother. It sounds far better. I’m sure you prefer that, right? And he was like, oh yeah, that’s a great way to say it. Okay, cool. So yeah, so just talking about like how do you leap? How do you jump? It’s like sometimes it’s just, it’s really about your own integrity, right? And your own truth. And you’ve got to live that. And you’re 100% right. Every time that I’ve made that jump, whether I’ve had a job to come back to, a salary that I would be earning, I’ve made the jump with no knowledge of what would come next. And you know what? Miraculously, that door opens. See, here we go. And the Archbishop is another door that miraculously opened for me. Being on your podcast is a miraculous opening of a door. Mm-hmm.

00:31:36
And I can’t wait, of course, to talk about more of His Grace, because you’ve been mentioning His name quite a few times, and it was for sure a very important stage in your career, serving for Him five years. Archbishop Desmond Tutu, of course, we’re talking about. A huge…

00:31:54
name for all of our listeners. And it’s incredible from the outside to watch the person. And you got closer to him. So you’ve been mentioning, you came in in the morning, looking at these papers, having a hot chocolate. Did he have these kind of routines every single day?

00:32:13
Was he sticking to routines?

00:32:15
Was he a big fan of routines? Yes. He’d come into the office three times a week, so I was working for him three days a week. I started as a half-day job and quickly evolved into a full-time job. And then even the other two days, I was working full-time because of the fact that I was out of an office. So my job really became 24-7. I’m sure people can appreciate how that can happen.

00:32:38
The foundation itself, I think they really wanted him to be only half a day.

00:32:45
So, you know, he would leave like by three o’clock in the afternoon. And his son-in-law, Tunzi, probably one of the nicest, kindest people I’ve ever known. He truly was absolutely fabulous and so good to his grace.

00:32:59
Obviously, he’s the son-in-law as well. So he played a very, very prominent role in the archer’s entire career right up to when he passed away. So Tunzi and I used to have to work closely together and travel together on different occasions. And, of course, Mama Lea, Mrs. Tutu, she was a large component of the archer’s constellation of people.

00:33:23
And then, of course, he has that expanded family. So that’s one side of the archer. On the other, in terms of coming into the office, having a routine, even out of an office, he still carried that routine at home. Oh, lovely. So his mornings was all about hot chocolate. That was his favorite drink. Also loved rum and raisin ice cream. Oh, sounds good.

00:33:42
Yeah.

00:33:42
So like special events, occasions, if he was being honored or he was doing a speech and a dinner was afterwards. Yeah. It was always a rum and raisin ice cream as an option, just for Arch, and hot chocolate. Always hot chocolate had to be available for him.

00:33:56
So, and obviously newspapers were important. I would put in from the day before or early in the morning, because he’d come in after me, prepare documents, like things that he needed to. So we used to have the plastic folders, and each one had a title, like correspondence, important, media requests.

00:34:14
So those would all be in his entry. So once I’d gone in, I would follow him after we’d all hugged him hello, of course, follow him to his office.

00:34:23
And then he would, you know, his papers would be there, his hot chocolate would be there. And I would just quickly show him what folders and could he take time. And then I’d close the door. And then 10 o’clock would be tea time where the whole staff would come together. We had this huge table. We were at the V&A.

00:34:37
That’s a nice routine.

00:34:38
So there was this, twice a day, he insisted that everybody would come to the table no matter what they were doing. It was a time for the human connection. Yes. Story sharing. No cell phones. No cell phones, no nothing. And there were biscuits and tea. And our tea lady was wonderful as well. And the staff were great and worked with amazing people. I will tell you that. And the first few years, his daughter, she was the managing director. And of course, she played a significant role. um and she was wonderful a great character and i remember her often sitting at the table with her knitting needles knitting away and the arch um he at that point the folders would come back to me and then he’d go back to his office as part of his routine i would then go through the the paperwork and then i would liaise between business manager and the managing director on like you know things that were

00:35:27
about to be actioned. And then we would go back in, bring him his lunch, and then he would go into prayer. And that was a standard practice for him every day that he was at the office.

00:35:38
And the same thing when he was home out of the office, even when he moved to Hermanus, that was still part of his routine. Beautiful area, by the way. Yes, yeah. The whales. Yeah, the whales. So yeah. So the arch loved, you know, he worked on his routine and his contemplation and prayer were really very important to him. And I think,

00:35:58
There were a couple, I mean, a couple, one thing, how silly of me, multiple, innumerable learnings.

00:36:06
I was going to ask you, what are the core learnings you took away from it?

00:36:09
I can name a few core, but I think one of the things I really recognize, we spoke about authenticity when we chatted before we started the podcast.

00:36:20
And the Arch for me, the Arch is Archbishop Desmond Tutu, His Grace. So he loved everybody to call him Arch. So Arch was one of, he was the most authentic person I think I’ve ever had the privilege to meet. If he wanted to be quiet, he would let you know. Dearie, I just want to be quiet now. If he was active, then he was active. If he was in a great mood, everybody was in a great mood. Because when he laughs, no matter where you are, if you can hear him laughing, everyone would join in that laughter. Because he was such a joy-filled person. He was incredibly generous. And I mean, I used to escort him down to…

00:37:00
you know a luncheon for example that was in the diary yeah and your people would would just flock they would flock with their mobile phones to ask him for photographs of course you know i’m acting as like security and you know protection and i’d say please can you give him the space and then one day we were going down the stairs and a lady came up to him and i put my hand was it because you he’s on his way to an appointment and he took my hand he said dear you know

00:37:23
I think on this one occasion, let’s allow the photographs, okay?

00:37:27
Generosity. Yeah.

00:37:29
And his whole thing was about if I can touch somebody’s life in a positive way, if by speaking with me, having a photograph with me, interfacing with me, even for a moment, if that can give joy to somebody and meaning to somebody, then that’s what I want to do. That’s why I’m here.

00:37:46
And again, it comes all back together.

00:37:49
He showed his heart. He showed his heart, yeah. Art was all about heart. I will say on the other side of that, when he needed to manage, he definitely knew how to do that. If he needed to put boundaries in place, if he knew when to say no, he really was…

00:38:05
He was an incredible person. Touched my life. He was the consummate gentleman.

00:38:12
He would never walk through a door in front of me. He would always open my car door. I watched him with Mrs. Tutu. It was a love story that you read about in novels. It’s spoiled me in many ways.

00:38:27
I’d love to experience that with a partner. That would be so cool. I’m single, so I haven’t been in a relationship for a long, long, long time. Because I just don’t find that exists anymore. It’s just like an obsolete idea. So in terms of being his PA,

00:38:44
It was a privilege. You know, I had to go through four levels of interviews before ultimately I sat with him.

00:38:53
And, you know, Arch used to speak about the Rainbow Nation and that all religions and faiths were completely one. You know, they were all welcomed and respected. Yes. And I remember him asking me like in the interview, of course, I was so nervous. Yeah. And the one thing that struck me is that he had a lazy boy in his office. He said, do you mind if I kick back, you know, and just sit in my chair?

00:39:16
Your recliner.

00:39:17
Yes, my recliner. And I was like, yes, of course. That’s a comfortable interview.

00:39:21
So, you know, he kind of sat back and then he put his hands together, you know, how we would do that, and he closed his eyes and he said, I am going to ask questions and I’m going to listen to your responses. Is that okay? And I said, yes, of course.

00:39:37
And one of the questions he ultimately asked me is like, do you believe in God? And I said to him, well, you know, one looks at creation. How can one not believe in the presence or the creation of God, so to speak? And I said to him, however, I don’t follow dogmatic religion. I don’t, I’m not in a formal religion. I would say I’m more, I tiptoe in and out across all religions because they all have interface points. And that’s more where my faith resides. And he said, that’s very beautiful. He said, that falls right into my philosophy of all faiths, all religions. So that’s wonderful.

00:40:14
Beautiful. And I just remember that being so, well, you know. What were your thoughts when you went out of this interview? Did you have confidence in yourself that you’re going to land a job?

00:40:26
Yes. I had confidence, but I think it doesn’t matter how confident you are. There’s always that tiny percentage of, well, you know, maybe you didn’t quite work it. as confident as you might feel. But I got a call within a couple of hours to say, yeah, it was a match. You’ve got the job. Thank you so much. Please, when can you start? And then it was just a process of doing handover and moving into that role.

00:40:49
But it was a lot. And the VA before me, Vivian Ford,

00:40:53
She was incredible. She was with him for seven years. And she was with him during, you know, real peak time where he was a real public figure, a global figure. So again, Tuan Tzu fits into that. And then before Vivian, there were a host of other VAPAs. And they’ve all been at pivotal points in Archer’s career. You know, every one of them. at a different junction. And like you, you were part of the transition, right? So, yeah. So my junction came and I think one of the main reasons I got that role that appealed to his daughter because she herself and the managing, the managing, what do you call them? Business manager.

00:41:29
Yeah.

00:41:30
Carol Allendale. They were the two that interviewed me just before the arch. And there was another lady. So there were two. So we’d been shortlisted down to two ladies. So there’s myself, which is a very diverse background and a caring background, right? And then there was a lady who was very corporate. She came from a complete exclusive corporate environment. So she had every skill set you would need. Now, if it had been the peak of his career, that was a fit. But

00:41:55
It was important for the foundation, for his family, that the arch moved because of his age and his health from full-time into part-time and then to transition to being retired. Now, my role as a carer working with high-profile individuals, every one of them hugely successful.

00:42:15
And for them to move from active life into…

00:42:21
And having a doctor say, well, you know, you’ve been in hospital, you broke your hip, you have to have a carer. It’s a real challenge for people. It really, really is. I can’t emphasize that enough. You know, you’ve been autonomous, independent, you’ve made your own decisions. Now you’ve got this person living in your home. Like, what?

00:42:36
Exactly. Who are you? So, you know, you have to move through those barriers of resistance. And again, so like a boss, 33 different ways, right? So a carer with a client, 33 different ways. How do you connect so you can build that rapport and that trust? So I think that really what appealed to the third interview was the fact that I had a caring background because they felt that it would be more –

00:43:00
of the Arch to make that transition. And it really was very appropriate because, you know, for the Arch, it was like, it was a big transition for him. He was a global figure. He was a public face, but voice. I will share that at the end, in the two years that he was in Hermanus, so I ran his office completely autonomously. It was amazing. He had such trust in me, you know, with the foundation. And, you know, there were great stuff that I’d have to interface with there as well.

00:43:27
So we were a good team. And then I’d go through on a Thursday, and he would do his Eucharist. So I would pick him up, I’d drive him to church, and then I would have set up coffees for people to meet with him and do their little sessions with him. Then I would drive him back, and then we would have our big Advent. So I used to have all these folders all over his floor and his study and open each one up and he’d go, wow, dearie, we’re busy today and, you know, whatever. And, you know, ambassadors, we would organize for them to go. Hermanus, the president of South Africa, saw him at Posa. He came for tea with the arch at his home in Hermanus. That was quite the thing with all the vehicles and the police and the army. That was really quite something.

00:44:06
But really, at the end of the day, his whole stance in his last period of time as a public figure was, it’s time for new faces to be seen. It’s time for new voices to to be heard, for new leadership to come up, for new human rights activists to have a say. And he said, you know, it’s impossible to fix the problems of the world as one person.

00:44:36
And he would get requests from all across the globe on a multitude of levels, you know, for all sorts of things. Of course. He’s just one person. Now, I used to have to say, you know, you will know this, Diana, as a gatekeeper, when you’re gatekeeping for somebody,

00:44:53
It’s hard to say no sometimes. But people who had had access to him for so long, he would just say yes, yes, yes. And then he eventually had to start saying no. There was a lot of resistance to that. So a lot of people would say behind my back or to other people, who’s this Atrayah saying no? Who’s the tough one here? What’s going on here? We used to have all this access to the arch.

00:45:17
And it was really a case of me having to say, do you have a grandparent? How old is your grandparent? Would you expect your grandparent to have to appear at 8 o’clock at night at an event that you’re throwing because somebody wants your grandparent? And they go, well, actually, no. And I say, well, maybe if you frame the arch in that same category, 8 o’clock at night for him is not a time of the evening that he really wants to be…

00:45:40
out and about you know so that and again that goes to how do i how can i connect with this person to gain the understanding and then eventually there we go okay fine i see that point of view absolutely so i’m very interested to know if you um had a chance to say goodbye to him before he left this world uh no i i didn’t i we used to sms if you’re saying personally no but uh by sms yes we used to stay in contact uh via that that mode that mean and also an email

00:46:11
And we’d often exchange very short because he wasn’t writing in-depth email. But he always used to call me dearie. I mean, he did that to a lot of people. But it was a real endearment. It’s so hard to encapsulate my relationship with the Arch because it was so deeply personal. And it was also so…

00:46:36
it needed to also be and remain very professional. So it was like an interface, you know, there was like this interface between professional and personal.

00:46:48
But trust was there, respect was there,

00:46:52
Communication was very clear. And in his last period of time, he was with family. It was really his family who surrounded him. The board of directors of the foundation, obviously they played a key role. The trustees, the Desmond Tutu Trust, they were present towards the end of his time.

00:47:13
But no, my time with him had ended and I didn’t feel it was right for me to request a time to spend with him. I really didn’t. But I will say when I came back from caring in 2020, I did have tea with both him and my mother-in-law. Yes, I went to their home in Mullerton because they’d moved back from Hermanus by that time.

00:47:34
And yes, I went and had a big catch-up with them. And of course, it was hot chocolate.

00:47:38
And hot chocolate, I was going to say that.

00:47:39
It was just tea too, yeah.

00:47:41
So that was the last time that I spent with both of them. And then I think it was like one or two email exchanges after that with him personally. So no, I just felt it would lack integrity for me to try and get to him towards the end. So I wanted just to respect that boundary. Yeah.

00:47:59
I think I would have done the same, absolutely.

00:48:03
So fast forward, Ms. VA, you are the founder of Ms. VA 2020.

00:48:10
So how does it feel now working as a virtual assistant, being surrounded by the foundation and all the other steps in your career earlier where there was always a team involved and now you’re on your own. Was it hard to have that shift or was it a meaningful decision for you?

00:48:29
Well, I’d have to backtrack to 2013. I’d been a carer then as well in that period of time, 2011 to 2013.

00:48:40
And then I went back in 2020. And then before that, 2008.

00:48:44
But that period in 2013, I worked for a family who had relocated from France to London, or to Brighton to be precise. And that was really the birthing of Miss VA.

00:48:56
Right then and there. So I took care of everything. I lived with the family in their home. And so I just ran calendars for her as well as the children and just the PA role. But it was more a formalized approach. It was just such an incredible experience. And there was also a lot of concierge because I used to go to country homes and prep like put flowers and make sure the linen was there and the pantries were full. So that’s more on the concierge side. You could say it’s PA, but you could also liken it. It’s kind of like a cross-purpose, like a hybridization of the two career paths that you could take. So Miss VA really came from that. It was an idea at the time. It’s like, well, I really love this. I love this role. And so when I came back to South Africa then, I started my own agency, Organize Me Please. But you can have a great idea, and you can have great skills, and you can have great personality.

00:49:51
But you know what? Without the financial plan and a proper business plan, that’s very sound.

00:49:55
It’s all going to flop like a bad souffle. So unfortunately, that kind of got brushed off to one side. But it never left me. So Miss VA 2020 really is a continuation of that.

00:50:09
I really love that. And my role with the arch was finished. What do I do now? My daughter was like, Mom.

00:50:14
you really should consider being like a virtual assistant. You can work anywhere in the world from a laptop. And I was like, oh, I don’t know. It’s like, you know, all this hesitation. And we speak about like how people can go round and round in a circle, right? So I was doing that and I was like, heck no. I’m very good at what I do. I love what I do. I have a passion for the industry, for the people in it, and for the profession as a whole. And incredible people that are in these jobs, right? Men and women. Absolutely.

00:50:42
And so Miss VA came about because I really wanted to offer a service to entrepreneurs, to high net worth individuals, to people, families. And I find in the world today, because we’re so busy, busy, busy, always on the go, so much gets lost through the cracks. People forget things. People lose sight of stuff. And really, my role is to take on that nitty-gritty administration, which I’m sure you can relate to.

00:51:13
Oh, yes. We are here to make lives easier.

00:51:15
Easier, yeah.

00:51:18
And so that’s really where that came from. And I love it. I really do. It’s like calendar management, email management, dealing with difficult customers, customer service. I learned how to do invoicing, which actually I found I really enjoy. Okay.

00:51:32
Not accounting. I was going to say, are you into bookkeeping already? Bookkeeping? No, no, no. But invoicing, yes. Right now, I have five very distinct clients, and they are so diverse. One’s in IT. Another’s in the medical side of things, mental health. Another is a CEO of a large coaching company that has offices in Dubai.

00:51:56
Helsinki, London, right? So I’m dealing with that. So when you’re working with a CEO, again, there’s a constellation of their executives. So you might work for this one individual, however, you’re then actually working for many, many other people, or you’re assisting other people that are wanting to interface with her. So that makes it dynamic and exciting. That’s lovely to hear all those different customers.

00:52:21
Yeah, yeah. And obviously there’s a focus always on that different customer, right? Exactly.

00:52:25
I’ve even worked with farmers. You know, I’ve had one of my clients, two of my clients have been farmers. And I mean, yeah, in South Africa, I might tell you. All my other clients are international farmers. So Miss VA, really, my focus is really on the international client, Europe, London.

00:52:43
And right now, I’m wanting to grow. I’ve got the capacity to grow. I’m wanting to take on my own personal clients and expand. And through that expansion process, it may be that I have this particular or a particular skill set. But if a client actually is looking for something that I don’t have, What an incredible opportunity in South Africa with the huge unemployment levels to actually offer that opening to somebody with that skill set and align those two people together. Right? I know. So it’s not just about me. For me, Miss VA is also about offering opportunity. And then also you and I were talking earlier, and I just wanted to say to your audience that Diana is like an amazing person. She’s amazing. If you’ve never actually seen Diana, she has this incredible light and she’s very generous and just the most beautiful spirit. She’s incredible.

00:53:38
I think you’re incredible, Diana. Thank you so much. So you had said to me earlier, like, because we were speaking about my public speaking. Exactly.

00:53:46
I was going to say it again. I mean, how did you pass on your knowledge from this amazing career? Because there are for sure right now listeners who keep wondering, how can we boogie? you how do i find you don’t worry people we’re going to put everything in the show notes and make sure you check them out connect with her on linkedin but is there any specific message you want to share with us yeah um you know public speaking i mean you know i’ve had that in my background uh do i do it now specifically as a profession no am i available to to evolve into that yes um

00:54:18
So my subject matter on the public stage has been theoretical cosmology. And the coaching side has been emotional intelligence, social intelligence, spiritual intelligence into leadership. Because EQ is the primary. And I think social and spiritual underpin the emotional intelligence. So those three form the trinity for me in my book. I’m talking entirely from my personal perspective.

00:54:44
Absolutely.

00:54:45
IQ is a given. We all have a brain. We all have to use intelligence. So that is a given thing that you have. You either learn a skill, you learn, develop, that’s IQ. So that’s just a default. That’s there. But emotional intelligence is a specific skill set.

00:55:02
Social intelligence, spiritual intelligence, and spiritual is not religion. Spiritual is like, did you notice the sunset this morning? Do you hear the birds when they are chirping in your garden and stop to listen? Do you actually connect with a pet? Like, really take that time. Do you really connect with your family and put away cell phones? That’s spiritual intelligence. That’s really connecting with somebody, the connection. And that even means your boss.

00:55:33
You sparked an idea for me which I hadn’t considered before.

00:55:38
You know, when I talk to people, let’s say somebody will phone me to come into Cape Town, they’ll ask me, please, can we have lunch or coffee? I really have an issue that I’m dealing with. I’d really love your input. And, you know, we’ll be chatting away and it’ll always go back to open questions and EQ and just asking the right questions that they are able to come to their own conclusion. Because you always want somebody to find their own answer. Yes, absolutely. You never want to tell somebody something. That’s coaching. Right? That’s coaching. And they always say to me like, oh, do you have a blog or do you do, what do you do? I mean, you have to get your, you know, you have to speak to people. And I was like. That’s what I keep saying. So I loved your idea of like taking the atmosphere and perhaps evolving that to the public stage.

00:56:20
But also not just that, but you have like online small events.

00:56:25
workshops about EQ. How does a VA or EA learn this as a skill set? Because it doesn’t matter how many rote skills you have. Anybody can learn a skill if they put their mind to that. That’s just a skill. It’s technical. Right.

00:56:40
But the heart, the connection, the collaboration, the community you develop within an organization that you sit in, being transparent and authentic, that has to come from within you.

00:56:54
How do you tap into that?

00:56:55
The inner you. Yeah.

00:56:57
I would love to, to see that workshop coming into live. And I’m happy to support whenever you need my help, of course. And maybe we get feedback from the listeners if you’re interested that we run such a workshop. Anything with you, Diana, would be a great idea. And introduce it to our European community. And I think because a lot of VAs are listening to this podcast as well. We have a lot of communities out there. And I always keep recommending VAs to many of my clients. So, yeah. Why not bring this to life?

00:57:27
Well, look at that, the birth of something new. I just want to quickly add to that that, you know, part of that process or part of any relationship is how are you authentic? I mean, do you really know somebody? Do you even really know your partner?

00:57:41
Mm-hmm.

00:57:42
I don’t think people do. I mean, you might want to go on a trip to India this year, but your partner, they don’t even have a clue that that’s what you want to do. And yet you’re upset when they go, no, I don’t want to go to India. But you never ever ask the question. So if you haven’t explored that or had the discovery session or even on the same page with your partner,

00:58:01
Combined values. You can have your own sets of values. But where’s your interface values? Where do they exist? So mission statements. I see that in corporations. Boy, it’s so rare to find a corporation or a company, even an individual, that even adheres, even remotely. And the purpose behind it, right? Like, why are you in this organization? The why. Yes. Where is the why?

00:58:22
I remember I had also a wonderful connection with a former assistant to Simon Sinek, the Y guy. Yeah, yeah. The Y guy, you know, who invented the Y. And it was so interesting to meet her as well, to find out how it was to work with a Y guy. Right. And what her Y was, by the way. So I have my Y, and I always share this with my audiences, what my Y is. Yeah.

00:58:49
But yeah, I would love to talk more about the plant we just made.

00:58:54
Now it’s official. We have it on tape here.

00:58:57
But, you know, I could have talked with you for hours and hours.

00:59:02
I cannot believe we talked for an hour actually right now. You gave away so much wonderful, wonderful information.

00:59:09
Also, you gave insight how it was working with the arch. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. But as I told you earlier, I…

00:59:19
was more interested in finding out so much more about you, not only that part of the career.

00:59:24
But of course, it was incredible to learn how you worked with him. And I will never forget the hot chocolate as of now. It’s also one of my favorites, by the way. So…

00:59:35
Truly grateful and thankful that you came to meet me up here. I can’t wait to stay in touch with you and to see what comes next.

00:59:44
We want to say thank you to all the listeners out there for taking the time to choose the Future Assistant podcast. I know you do have questions. choices out there when it comes to the podcast, but it’s always a pleasure having you here on the show. I always handpick the guests. I do my research. It is always a joy meeting these people then in real life. Like I was just saying that it’s good to actually sit in front of a live person again and not through Zoom. Yes, it helped me through the pandemic, but it has a different quality level sitting here. And I felt very comfortable during this talk. I hope you did the same. And thanks again for coming.

01:00:24
Diana, you’re so gracious. Thank you so much.

01:00:28
It’s been a delight, actually, to be here. And to the audience, thank you for taking the time to listen. I hope that what I shared has some kind of value for you. But Diana…

01:00:42
Thank you very much. All the best to you.

01:00:46
Thank you.

01:00:48
So are you still with us? I hope so. Because it was just a wonderful, wonderful talk. I really enjoyed meeting Atrayah and hear her story. And I can’t wait to connect with her again after we’ve been releasing this episode. So let us know how you liked it. Make sure you connect with her. You’ll find more information about her in the show notes.

Ep 377: James McPartland on Leading from Where You Are

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 24 May 2026 15:15:49 +0000

James “Mac” McPartland is a keynote speaker, author of the Unopened Gifts ® series, and MindShift & Performance Coach.

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, James talks about what it really means to lead from where you are, self-leadership, radical responsibility, and communication.

LEADERSHIP QUOTE

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

– George Bernard Shaw

CONNECT WITH JAMES

- James on LinkedIn
- James’ Website, X, Instagram, Facebook
- Books

ABOUT JAMES

James “Mac” McPartland is a keynote speaker, author of the Unopened Gifts ® series, and MindShift & Performance Coach. For over 25 years, he has been helping leaders and their teams access breakthrough performance and results. James has worked with organizations such as Bank of America, IBM, Nespresso, Kellogg’s, Dow Chemical, Athletes First, and 24 Hour Fitness to transform their cultures into ones of exceptional collaboration and achievement.

–––

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Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

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LEAVE A REVIEW

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00
Yeah, Jeremy, thank you very much. My name is James McPartland. Those who know me well or get grandfathered in like Jeremy will call me Mac. The quote that I’m bringing to the program today is one by George Bernard Shaw, and that is the single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it happened.

00:00:25
The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

00:00:41
Howdy, friends. Welcome to episode 377 of the Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host, Jeremy Burrows, and I’m excited to be speaking with James McPartland today. James is a keynote speaker, author of the Unopened Gifts series, and mind shift and performance coach. It’s a lot of credentials after your name there, James, but welcome to the show.

00:01:08
Listen, thanks for having me, and I could listen to you speak about me all day, Jeremy.

00:01:11
Thank you for the interview.

00:01:13
Awesome. Well, what part of the world are you in, and what do you like to do when you’re not working?

00:01:19
Half of that question is a lot easier to answer. I’m in Southern California, Orange County to be specific, in a little area that’s known for the Real Housewives of Orange County.

00:01:29
We’re a cosmetically fit neighborhood.

00:01:32
Not working. I’m fortunate enough to say that given the lifestyle that exists out here, cycling, swimming, running, spending time. I’ve got two teenage boys who are heavily involved in sports. And doing my best, if you will, to be present for this great game of life because time goes very fast, my man.

00:01:52
This is true.

00:01:52
What sports do they play?

00:01:54
Yeah, I’ve got a senior in high school who’s a basketball player and certainly didn’t get the skills from me. Maybe it was mom. And the junior is an exceptional lacrosse player. Oh, nice. I think it’s just because he likes collisions. Yeah.

00:02:10
Love it. My, uh, my boys are 12 and 14, 12 year olds, really heavy into club soccer. And then the 14 year old is going to be, he’s in club baseball, but he’ll be in a freshman in high school baseball next, or I guess this fall or no next spring. Yeah. He’ll be in high school this fall, but baseball obviously would be next spring. So it’s all, all running together, but yeah.

00:02:33
Good for you, man. Kids are the ultimate clock of life. If it went as fast for me as it’s going to go for you or vice versa, where did it all go? Right, right. Exactly.

00:02:43
Well, super excited to have you on the show.

00:02:47
Your assistant reached out, Sarah, shout out to Sarah. Sarah, she reached out and tried to pitch you to be on the show. And I get, you know, probably a couple of these every other day or so.

00:03:00
And, you know, generally they don’t pay attention. It’s pretty templated. They don’t really pay attention to anything. what the show’s about.

00:03:10
Hers was definitely a better email pitch than I had seen. So it kind of caught my eye enough to reply and say, hey, you know, and when I do get an email from an assistant, I like to say, hey, why don’t you be on the show? Like, I’d like to interview you.

00:03:23
And she did a good job, though.

00:03:26
And maybe I’ll have her on the show eventually. But she did a good job of replying and saying, actually, you know, James really has some good topics that are relevant to our role as assistants. And I think you should reconsider. And I thought that was really good, crisp, concise sales pitch to flip that back around and get you on. So here we are. You’re on the show. No pressure, right? Sarah talked you up pretty good. So no pressure.

00:03:53
So what I want to do is first just get into your career a little bit. Tell us a little bit about what you do, you know, your career journey and how you ended up where you’re at now and a little bit about what you do.

00:04:07
Yeah. Thank you, Jeremy. And thank you for the shout out to Sarah, right? Assistance of all natures make a fundamental difference in life and in business. I don’t even think the word assistant is an appropriate one. Maybe it’s more executive leader, right? in terms of how it got me here on the show. By background, maybe we’ll stay on the professional credential side of things.

00:04:29
I had one of those 20-year overnight successes in business in the manufacturing space of exercise equipment. That phrase, 20-year overnight success, I only thought it’d be a couple of years and I would retire and I’d be playing baseball with you and your kids out in Kansas.

00:04:44
I guess the good news about that journey, which has led to the current

00:04:48
work I do, which is speaking a lot of executive coaching, culture and leadership development work within corporations.

00:04:56
Most of that comes from the learnings of a 20-year overnight success. But to be fair to that process, I can tell you more how not to do it, Jeremy, how to do it. And I guess I’m able to experience here with folks in a multiple of industries, inclusive and exclusive of manufacturing, maybe to point out where there might be some natural landmines that happen in growing a business. We grew it to a couple hundred million dollars.

00:05:22
There’ll be other problems that surface.

00:05:25
But I will tell you along the way, and really what piqued my interest when Sarah brought this to my attention was, wow, if it wasn’t for some of the people, and again, I think using the word assistant from my experience underplays the importance and significance of people in my career. Man, if I didn’t have those folks around me to catch me on my blind spots, to remind me of the things I said, and to help navigate specific relationships, And also from that experience currently now and working with other organizations is what I find is the best of assistants really understand the culture almost better than anybody else, almost better than the CEO.

00:06:03
And so anywhere a manufacturing business led to a keynote speaking and corporate consulting opportunity. And maybe you can tell by the books behind me, I continue to be a student, Jeremy. There’s a lot to learn in the game of life.

00:06:19
Love it. Love it. Thanks for sharing.

00:06:22
What is or when did you hire Sarah? How long have you been working with her as for as your assistant?

00:06:32
Yeah. Thank you, man.

00:06:35
It’s funny when these anniversaries come up, I think, well, where’d those years go? Like, we’re just talking about how fast kids grow. Sarah, maybe eight or nine years ago. Wow.

00:06:44
And we have, you know, several members of our team. Sarah came on quiet, introverted, quiet. Doesn’t mean anything other than that’s just style. And so we were going through this application process and we were meeting lots of people and there were certainly the vibrant types and not so much. But Sarah had this cool, calm confidence and the way she spoke and articulated, communicated actually, was extremely effective. Could get that across verbally, could get it off in written word.

00:07:15
Uh, and as somebody great that comes into your life was able to just clarify communication with me. Hey, this is what I think you’re saying. Is this what you’re saying? Because if you’re going to ask me to do something, I want to make sure I’m clear. So the,

00:07:30
eight years, maybe it’s nine. And if I missed it, Sarah, sorry, there’s got to be some cake to come, right? Celebrate a few of them.

00:07:37
But it goes fast, man. I guess soon I’ll be talking about a decade. That’s awesome. That’s great.

00:07:43
I love it. I’ve been supporting my CEO for nine, almost nine and a half years.

00:07:49
I supported my last executive for around six or so years. So yeah, I definitely value and respect those long-term strategic partnerships, so it’s great you guys have been building that.

00:08:03
Let’s talk a little bit about…

00:08:06
what it really means to lead from where you are. And, you know, obviously, my audience is assistants primarily. So we can tie that in as well. But how, let’s just have a conversation, honest conversation about what it means to lead from where you are, no matter your title, no matter your experience, role, etc.

00:08:29
Yeah, thank you. And, you know, in thinking about this conversation, some of the materials I was looking through relative to your journey, you know, there’s some catchphrases, right? Leadership is not a title. Leadership is influence.

00:08:42
My experience from any person in any walk of life, a title doesn’t is not required. We’ve all been around somebody who inspires us, engages us, enriches us, or you just feel better when you’re around them.

00:08:54
Or put another way is maybe we’ve all been in an environment or an airplane, somebody walks on and it doesn’t feel so good. You can feel that energy.

00:09:03
And so from my perspective, it’s how the person first leads themself, how I lead myself, how I talk to myself, the relationship I have with myself, how I take care of myself.

00:09:15
In terms of wherever I am in life as a leader, people hear what they see.

00:09:20
So however I show up is a reflection of the relationship I have with myself. And it’s the number one place that I practice leadership in that if I’m not well-versed in leading myself, I don’t know how I can lead others along the way. So I guess you’d say, what is leadership? It’s a reflection of how you see yourself or the identity you have for where you are now and maybe the role and the life you want to live into.

00:09:47
Great. So how would you say you have refined that over the years? Like, how would you build or develop or cultivate your yourself?

00:10:01
Yeah, full time. Well, I find that I spend the most time with myself. That’s the person I’m talking to the most, Jeremy.

00:10:09
Maybe like anything, there’s probably things that we get intellectually, but I think until it moves from the head to the heart, maybe the heart to the hands, it doesn’t tend to stick.

00:10:19
And maybe over the course of time, particularly when you spend a lot of time with folks, let’s call it in a coaching relationship, as that’s the way it’s phrased. What I understand is that in order to

00:10:32
have an impact or an influence on somebody, for example, if it were you and I, my responsibility to you would be to understand best I could who you are, what you want to get to, what are you afraid of, what do you want to be when you grow up, and try to meet you where you’re at. And most importantly is understand where you’re trying to get in the future. So if you and I stood on that moon of you and I in the future and look back, we’d have an identification of what we need to do first. So I guess the way I got there was

00:11:02
It was hard for me to ask people to be willing to look at things and do things they weren’t willing that it didn’t appear that I was going to do myself.

00:11:10
I think in the relationship that we’ve built in the prior work I had as a CEO and in the current work I do is, and let’s suppose it’s you and I, I would look at a relationship with you, Jeremy, and say, well, we’re going to practice. Occasionally I get to play teacher. Then you get to play teacher. Then we both get to play student.

00:11:29
Maybe we both try to play teacher, but there’s a learning engagement that goes back and forth, has nothing to do with book education. Most of it is, you know, life experience.

00:11:39
So I guess what I would tell you that sticks would be most like any great quotes. Somewhere along the line, I heard or evolved the phrase, people hear what they see. And it made me wonder, particularly when I had children,

00:11:52
What do people see in me? Are my words consistent with my behaviors and the things I’m suggesting to people? Would they know that those were priorities for me if I never used words to tell them, if they just followed me around?

00:12:06
That’s great. Love it.

00:12:09
I noticed that just to shift gears a little bit, or it’s related to what you’re talking about, but I noticed on your website, which I’ll share in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/377 for those listening.

00:12:24
The you work with athletes and I would love to kind of, you know, we just mentioned our boys, our kids are athletic and all that, too. But I’d love to hear kind of in your work with athletes, how much of that.

00:12:43
cross um not really cross industry but you know what i mean like from professional circle and executive assistant roles to working with athletes how much of that is relevant and you know transferable basically does that make sense yeah yeah thank you for the question my friend

00:13:07
What’s been what’s really interesting about working with a let’s use professional athletes, whether it’s the NFL or the NBA, like any of us, we’re all you know, it’s all human beings.

00:13:18
Right. And what’s interesting about it can happen in the corporate world with a high level executive position.

00:13:26
male or female and a senior ceo or ceo role where you know there’s this um pedestal aspect that can go along with it just by default well professional sports you know let’s just say that’s amplified then if you add social media to it right almost people seem untouchable those relationships are built by referral because i imagine there’s a lot of people trying to you know take money from others, perhaps, or take advantage. What I find with athletes, one, is they’re male and or female the same.

00:14:00
Ultimate students, willing to train, willing to do what it works, willing to practice, really try anything. I’ll see if it works. If it does, I’ll stick it. If not, I’ll discard it. That’s a brilliant part about working with athletes. Two is, my experience has been, for those that really want to understand the benefit of coaching, it’s to understand how to take that platform

00:14:20
and use it as a force for good somewhere in life. I’ve built this community. I’ve built this level of awareness. I’ve built this recognition.

00:14:28
I don’t know what to do with it.

00:14:30
And if I come off the field or come off the court, the question people always get, hey, what are you doing now? What are you doing with your life? Or you should be retired. And there’s these expectations put on people, probably like you build in your relationships. What the individual, I believe, call it athlete, call it corporate executive, is looking for a place they can be themselves.

00:14:50
open their kimonos and say, I’m kind of scared. I don’t know exactly what to do here. Is it safe?

00:14:57
And not to tell the person, no matter where they are at a high level, of how great they are. They already know that.

00:15:04
It’s about how to take that platform and that greatness to use it to the benefit of other people, right? So if you’re going to leave your paw print or your footprint or your cleat print, right, or your business card someplace, how is the world a bit of a better place by virtue of the gift you’ve been given through this platform? So maybe the simple version, what’s great is if we do, hey, let’s try these exercises, go through this workshop, let’s read this segment, let’s watch this video clip, because what you might appreciate in the

00:15:33
let’s call it in the coaching model, you spend maybe one hour with a person, an athlete. Let’s say you get one hour with that person a week. Well, there’s 168 hours in a week. So you get one hour and you’re trying to override 167 other hours of conditioning.

00:15:49
to make a behavior change going forward. So we try to keep tasks between conversations so that the momentum stays. And the great thing about athletes is give me the assignment, tell me what to do.

00:16:01
I don’t make them sweat in there as much. Well, maybe the questions make them sweat, like you’re making me sweat, Jeremy. Yeah.

00:16:07
Yeah. I mean, that sounds like, you know, assistance even to relate it to them from what I’ve heard in my years coaching assistants and being an assistant is like, oh, you know, what are you going to do next? Right. Like, what do you it’s like, well, what if I like being an assistant? What if what if what if I want to be an assistant for my career, you know, and then just.

00:16:32
Going back to your point about, you know, making a footprint, leaving a business card in the world, whatever.

00:16:39
Talk a little bit about navigating the tension between, you know, supporting others, helping others, but then also advocating for yourself.

00:16:54
Especially as assistants, like we’re so focused on. All right, I got to make sure James is where he needs to be. I got to make sure he’s got what he needs. You know, it’s Saturday afternoon. And even though Sarah may not be working, she’s probably thought about. Oh, is James traveling this weekend? Does he have what he needs? You know, how do we how do we balance that and navigate that tension between, hey, you know what? I’m supporting this executive. I’m supporting this team. I really care about them and I’m helping them achieve their goals. But I also have my own goals and have to care about myself and advocate for myself.

00:17:32
Great point, because maybe most of us learn nobody’s coming by to be in charge of us, even if they’re our executive assistant. Right. We’re essentially in charge of ourselves. Maybe we got a support squad around us, but we’re the people that say if we have the benefit of it, we still have to do the thing, whatever the thing is. Right.

00:17:51
If it’s plausible, given your community and for those that maybe this question really applies to is, with the relationship that the assistant has with the senior executive, he or she, are their values clear? Are their priorities clear? And let me broaden it out. And this is maybe not applicable to everybody, but it’s worth considering. Over the years, most of us have heard the phrase, hey, it’s not personal, it’s business. Jeremy, I think it’s all personal.

00:18:23
If you’re a person, how could it not be?

00:18:26
And when we get emotional and riled up and upset, it’s not like, okay, I’m just going to stop doing that. Why? Because we’re passionate. We put our heart and soul into it. And so wherever we have a specific dynamic or a relationship that’s working or not working, we co-create it.

00:18:42
The good news about that is we can do something about it if it’s not to our benefit.

00:18:47
What I often suggest to folks that are in the roles, the valuable roles that you’re describing, can they get a perspective from their executive? What’s most important to them? What’s their own value structure?

00:18:59
What fuels them? What gives them energy? Maybe if it’s a business relationship besides quarterly earnings and hitting KPIs and making sure there’s cash in the bank, that’s very important.

00:19:10
But does the person have a child that they want to get to the game for? Like you’ve got a baseball game this afternoon. Is there something they know that maybe they’ve been told or told themselves? You’ve got to get on the treadmill three days a week.

00:19:23
If those components are built into the relationship, the individual themselves has then a chance to practice the same priorities. Hey, I’m glad you said that because what’s important to me to do blank, I need to get my exercise time with my child because that gives me the energy to

00:19:38
to make sure I’m doing the functions we require.

00:19:41
Because if we can have those honest conversations, I can’t give my best unless I’m at my best. And if I’m just over indexing on the business side of things, I’m actually going to burn out. I’m going to become sort of resentful and respectful to everybody.

00:20:00
We train people on how to deal with us.

00:20:03
And so in building a relationship, or rebuilding a relationship. First, I have to retrain myself on how I want to show up.

00:20:10
How do I want to show up? How do I want to communicate? How do I want people to see me? What are the practices? And who can help hold me to do those? Because it’s very hard to make modifications.

00:20:21
And perhaps with that, whomever you’re reporting into is, I’m working on these things to better myself because if I can do this, I’m going to be better for you. Because for that person that they’re working with,

00:20:35
Look, everyone’s radio station is tuned to WIFM. What’s in it for me, right?

00:20:39
So if the work I’m doing to develop me is to – if I said to you, Jeremy, you and I are going to build a relationship. I’m going to work on getting super fit, and you’re going to benefit. You probably said, dude, knock yourself out. I’ll drive you to the gym, right? Here’s your salad, right? So how does –

00:20:55
Please.

00:20:56
No, I just say that reminds me a long, long time ago, when I was first getting into my assistant career, I talked to another assistant.

00:21:02
And they mentioned specifically, you know, my executive, we work a lot, we work hard, we’re, you know, it’s not a clock in clock out nine to five situation. But he’s like, my executive knows that I’m much more

00:21:21
productive, much more friendly, um, and pleasant to be around if I get my 3 PM in the afternoon workout.

00:21:35
And, and so he was, he was just like, it’s just, it’s, we’ve, we’ve communicated that it’s clear, like, Hey, I’m going to be offline from three to four, four 30. Um, but that’s what I need to keep my high energy level, to keep me healthy, and allow me to work at a high capacity for a long period of time.

00:21:58
You know, and to that really important point, what I think is also very helpful is and maybe it’s a practice.

00:22:06
Sometimes we’ll think in our head, well, I can’t say that to the person and I can’t do that. And we’ll have the conversation with ourself without having it with the other person. And so my encouragement to people is give the other person permission to say no. They might, but don’t say no for them.

00:22:22
It’s all the framing. Right.

00:22:24
I want to approach our relationship this way. And if I do, I think I’m going to be even more beneficial to us. The person is going to hear that.

00:22:31
It’s not I want to go work out because I’m trying to get away from you.

00:22:35
That’s probably how you not want to phrase it. Right.

00:22:37
Right. Totally.

00:22:38
Awesome. What about the term radical responsibility? That was something that your amazing assistant, Sarah, mentioned that you could talk on. So talk to us a little bit about what that means. Radical responsibility.

00:22:52
Yeah. Thank you, my friend. If I were to simplify, if I just use the coaching part of our business, and if I think over, gosh, hundreds of examples,

00:23:05
What do I think people want? Let’s call it on the other side of the table or the other side of the screen. What I think people are looking for is a higher sense of control in their life.

00:23:16
And when things fall out of control, that’s when most of our anxiety ramps up. And radical responsibility is an attempt in the communication process by which we say to someone, practice this, and it’s all practice.

00:23:31
Look at where your life is. We create a scoreboard for them, right? Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, all the buckets.

00:23:38
And most people look at that scoreboard and they kind of cringe a little bit. This is not where I thought I’d be at this phrase or stage of my life.

00:23:44
And we say, okay, great. Take 100% responsibility for that.

00:23:48
Well, often the feedback is, yeah, but my boss is this way and this is going on and you don’t understand this. And that’s probably all true. However, even if you take 100% of your 50%,

00:24:00
There’s something you can do about it.

00:24:02
And that’s taking that feeling of control back.

00:24:05
So it could go to the extreme when there’s pushback on that. It could be, hey, we just had a massive tornado roll through our town and it wiped out four or five homes and there’s damage to the infrastructure and our Internet’s out. Now, how am I responsible for that? Well, there’s a distinction between being responsible for something and responsible to it.

00:24:30
So if I’m responsible to it and I’m a member of the community or a member of the company, I could deliver water.

00:24:37
I could go help clean up debris. If it’s within an organization whereby which, hey, I don’t control the sales department or manufacturing missed their schedule,

00:24:47
Maybe I’m not a salesperson or a manufacturing person, but there’s probably somebody I know along the way, maybe someone in accounting who’s been burning the midnight oil, who would benefit from the Starbucks being delivered to their desk. Say, look, I appreciate the extra effort you’re putting in. So it’s taking responsibility for the company or the community. And action cures anxiety. It’s when we get stuck in our head, which is getting behind enemy territory, that the demons tend to, at least in my case, rule the day.

00:25:15
Yeah.

00:25:17
Love that. That’s, as a parent that is very, a parent of a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old, the radical responsibility is tough to get the kiddos to do. But yeah, it’s a good reminder.

00:25:35
Awesome. Well, I really appreciate it, James. We could talk a lot more.

00:25:40
You know, as I think I mentioned earlier, my son’s baseball practice is here in a little bit and it got moved up early. So appreciate you being flexible with your time and chatting. But I’ll definitely share all of your social links and all that fun stuff.

00:25:57
at leaderassistant.com/377. But if you could tell the assistants listening, you know, one thing to remember and then one place to reach out and say hi and find out what you’re about, what would you what would you tell them?

00:26:12
Yeah, look, thank you for the opportunity. And anybody tuning in, whether they’re barreling down the road. or wherever they may be at the moment, what I think makes a difference is there’s often a misunderstanding with the role or the label that goes along with it. And maybe that’s viewed as undervalued or underappreciated. And that might be the case by others.

00:26:33
And yet people are going to think what they’re going to think.

00:26:36
What I work closely with individuals is to think about identity. Identity is what I identify with and how I see myself.

00:26:45
And if, in fact, there’s that sense of maybe I’m not appreciated or, man, this is harder than I thought it was going to be, what is helpful to all people is a compelling future. What am I trying to build? What am I trying to live into? Who am I trying to become? Then there’s something I can learn and there’s something I can take greater responsibility for in terms of equipping myself to play the game going forward.

00:27:10
As well as consider how have I trained myself to see myself? Are people a reflection of how I’m seeing myself?

00:27:18
And there’s a chance for me to retrain myself if I choose to and others around me. Or put another way is maybe individuals have greater agency over this experience than maybe they’ve otherwise had the chance to see until they had a chance to tune into shows like yours. So… and in terms of coming by to shake and howdy probably the easiest thing to do if it’s not too much of a tongue twister and hopefully it’s in the show notes jamesmcpartland.com that takes to the website the social channels information on the book and come meet sarah who’s obviously the celebrity on today’s program i’ve been honored to you know have anybody come in take advantage of the resources there’s lots of free stuff

00:27:58
Awesome, James. Appreciate it. And again, another shout out to Sarah for setting this up and being such a great strategic partner to you. We really appreciate you taking time and wish you the best of luck.

00:28:14
You’re doing great work, man. Thanks for including us. I appreciate it. Take care.

00:28:27
Please review on Apple Podcasts.

Ep 376: Diana Brandl Interviews Brian Daniel – Founder of The Celebrity Personal Assistant Network

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 17 May 2026 15:23:41 +0000

In this candid interview, Diana Brandl welcomes Brian Daniel, founder of The Celebrity Personal Assistant Network, to pull back the curtain on the world of private service for celebrities, high-net-worth families, and billionaires.

Brian, a former Personal Assistant and Chief of Staff for royal families and A-list stars, shares his firsthand expertise on the ups and downs of the industry. He reveals the true salary realities (including the controversial Anna Wintour assistant salary) and the immense patience required to find the right match.

Learn why professionalism, “thick skin,” and maintaining discretion are non-negotiable, and discover why moving away from major cities like L.A. might open the door to world-class, once-in-a-lifetime career opportunities.

CONNECT WITH BRIAN

ABOUT BRIAN

Brian Daniel is the founder of The Celebrity Personal Assistant Network, a headhunting firm for celebrities, high-net-worth families, and billionaires. As a former personal assistant, chief of staff, and confidant to some of the world’s wealthiest families, Brian knows firsthand what it takes to make it in the private service industry.

Since its inception, FindCelebrityJobs.com has been featured in dozens of high-profile media outlets worldwide and has been visited tens of millions of times. In addition to household staffing, CPAN also offers resources for those in private service, including but not limited to career coaching and B2B consulting for small business owners in the luxury markets.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

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THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

Enroll in the on-demand, AI-powered professional development resource for Leader Assistants who want to level up. Learn more -> The Leader Assistant Academy.

THE LEADER ASSISTANT BOOK

JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

Subscribe to The Leader Assistant Podcast so you don’t miss new episodes!

You can find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pandora, and Stitcher.

Join my email list here if you want to get an email when a new episode goes live.

LEAVE A REVIEW

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please take 2 minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts here. Each review helps me stay motivated to keep the show going!

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 JEREMY
Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant Podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.

00:00:28 SPEAKER_00
The Leader Assistant podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

00:00:41 JEREMY
Check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/376.

00:00:47 DIANA
I always love to introduce experts around the table. And today I’m introducing Brian Daniel, the founder of the Celebrity Personal Assistant Network.

00:00:56 DIANA
We had so much to exchange, for example, like how it is leading a headhunting firm for celebrities, high net worth families and billionaires.

00:01:05 DIANA
As a former personal assistant chief of staff and confident to some of the world’s wealthiest families, Brian knows for sure firsthand what it takes to make it in the private service industry. We also talk very openly about the ups and the downs and what it takes to find the right match. And sometimes it is wise to really ask for your own motivation in order to get into the private service industry. There’s so much more we’re going to bring to you in this episode. So jump right in.

00:01:38 DIANA
Hey, everybody, it’s Diana from the Future Assistant podcast, and it’s always a joy talking to my guests and especially bringing some new faces to my European community. And today for sure is a very interesting talk waiting for us. I’ve been waiting for this talk for quite a while and we’ve been in touch a few times. I’ve been following him on social media because what a career Brian has. It’s absolutely amazing. So I can’t wait to introduce Brian Daniel to all of you and to hear a little bit from his life. And he’s actually joining us from the U.S. And I need to say good morning because it’s morning hours in the U.S. And it’s actually Father’s Day. So welcome, Brian. And what time is it and where actually are you at the moment?

00:02:22 BRIAN
So it’s just a few minutes after 10. And right now I’m in my secret lair in the Midwest. I don’t spend too much time in L.A. now. They’re going through some growing pains. So, you know, I have a daughter and I spend a lot of time in the Midwest.

00:02:40 DIANA
Perfect. So which is the next big city close to you, Midwest?

00:02:45 BRIAN
So I’m pretty close. I’m kind of halfway in between Chicago and Detroit. I do a lot of business in both those cities. So it was a pretty good spot to be in.

00:02:57 DIANA
Wonderful. So how are you at the moment? You say not too much time in L.A. at the moment. Actually, I have a question for you later on about L.A.,

00:03:06 DIANA
But how’s life? I mean, jumping into the summertime, is there something where you say it’s getting a little bit more relaxed with the business in your agency? Or would you say it’s never relaxed? It’s always a lot to do.

00:03:20 BRIAN
You got it. It’s there’s always a lot to do. You know, certain industries follow certain patterns, especially with hiring. But. in private service you know everything’s always at level 10 because uh the lives of the super wealthy they’re always quite busy as you know and there’s always going to be personal and professional emergencies so my phone rings at all times of the year uh there’s a famous story about on new year’s eve i had a a famous pop star contact me because

00:04:01 BRIAN
it was almost before midnight and she really needed somebody. And I got her someone on New Year’s Eve. So that happens.

00:04:12 DIANA
Even on New Year’s Eve, 24-7. Wow.

00:04:17 DIANA
Speaking of ringing phones, but also traveling, you’re currently in the Midwest. And when I look back at your career, you’ve been traveling a lot with your clients. So how about right now? I mean, do you hop on a plane every week or how is it at the moment?

00:04:33 BRIAN
That’s a great question. So it depends on the circumstances. I would say once a month I’m on a plane to go meet a client. I’ll often go on location because the clients that contact me are often in dire straits.

00:04:57 BRIAN
There was one situation where someone had burned through 17 assistants in two years. Whoa. And so what I’ll do is when the clients come to me, they’re often exhausted in so many ways because they do try to take out job ads themselves. So there’s something that happens where they hit a brick wall and then they come to realize we need professional help. We need to find out why all the cogs aren’t working correctly. So I’ll often go out into the field and visit the estate and see what’s going on, talk to some of the players. And most of the time, the principals are not aware that

00:05:45 BRIAN
there’s chaos behind the scenes. They often think they have a very well-oiled machine, but that’s often not the case.

00:05:57 BRIAN
A Ferrari has a lot of moving parts and they’re very temperamental, aren’t they? So when you have these big mega estates, many of them over 20,000 square feet, and you have a lot of employees and a lot of departments,

00:06:16 BRIAN
There can be a lot of backbiting, backstabbing, inefficiencies happening in the operation. And sometimes they need a third party to go in there and take a good look at what’s going on.

00:06:33 DIANA
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s good to have someone like you being involved because you are in the middle between the assistant you hired for your client and of course being also the contact person for your client. So I can imagine that the job never ends, right?

00:06:50 BRIAN
There’s always something to do.

00:06:53 DIANA
So we would love to hear a little bit more about your professional background, Brian. So why don’t you let us know a little bit out of your bio?

00:07:01 BRIAN
Sure. So as is so often the case, I fell into the industry as so many people do.

00:07:11 BRIAN
You know, when you ask people how they got started, it’ll either say a friend of a friend or I was the neighbor’s niece or something like that. And it happened quite by accident.

00:07:22 BRIAN
So the first personal assistant job I had, I worked for an extended member of the Johnson & Johnson family. And that was, you know, the floodgates opened after that.

00:07:37 BRIAN
I was hooked, you know, working in the private estates and working behind the scenes and booking private jets for people. It became pretty exciting. And so I had a long career as a personal assistant and estate manager and a chief of staff working for high net worth families.

00:08:01 BRIAN
I worked for a very famous voice coach for several years who does all the Hollywood stars. And I worked for the Royal Saudi family for two years.

00:08:12 BRIAN
And then I came to a crossroads where, uh,

00:08:17 BRIAN
I had to decide, you know, if I was going to take a step back or not, because, you know, the really long hours and constantly on the road kind of gets to you after a while. The blessing is the curse. You know, the things that are very good about the job, it can become a bit of a chore. So in 2007, I decided to become a recruiter.

00:08:45 BRIAN
It’s a very strange story because after I finished with the Royal Saudis, I was considering doing something else, and I went and visited a lot of the big quote-unquote famous agencies in LA and New York, and I was absolutely appalled.

00:09:05 BRIAN
at the treatment, I received that arrogance and the entire experience for me kind of opened my eyes. And I thought to myself, there’s an opportunity here to do it a little better. I came to learn that

00:09:27 BRIAN
not just in private service, but most recruiters in any industry don’t come from the field.

00:09:38 BRIAN
So this is especially true in domestic staffing. Very few people in the industry were actually in private service. And so I thought, well, because I come from that world and I’ve worked with so many families, I can make very informed decisions.

00:09:57 BRIAN
about placing staff with high net worth families. And that really is how the idea was born.

00:10:04 DIANA
Fabulous. So it was never a master plan that you said, one day I’m going to be my own CEO. I’m running my own business.

00:10:14 BRIAN
Never. It happened just like I got into the business quite by accident. I became a recruiter quite by accident.

00:10:23 BRIAN
You know, things were a little slow to start, frankly, because, you know, not only was I new.

00:10:29 BRIAN
in that genre but um you know right around 07 08 is when the financial crisis was happening with the housing market globally and so there were a couple days i said to myself was this a good idea but eventually things worked out and you know the word got out and

00:10:52 BRIAN
I started doing media appearances and things like that. And so I don’t do any advertising at all. All my clients come to me either through word of mouth or they were doing research online and they found me.

00:11:07 BRIAN
So, yeah.

00:11:08 DIANA
Fabulous. What does it do to you when you look back? I mean, telling me in that moment about your career, is that still like a pinch me moment where you say, wow, incredible when I look what I’ve been doing and I’ve been running my business for such a long time. So what does it do to you when you talk about it?

00:11:26 BRIAN
Well, there are a lot of really great moments. Something very interesting happened about two years ago. I can’t believe it’s been two years, but I got a call out of the blue.

00:11:38 BRIAN
from someone associated with the real life crazy rich Asians family. And I kind of became, I don’t want to say friends with the gentleman, but he was calling me frequently. There would be sometimes a whole week would go by and I talked to him every single day. So for months and months and months, we were talking and we were trying.

00:12:08 BRIAN
to find him the perfect traveling assistant. And because he was in a very, very unique set of circumstances and because COVID was happening, it was very difficult to find the, a perfect fit. And,

00:12:27 BRIAN
Long story short, there were several initiatives that he was involved in. He had a lot of projects he wanted to do that I was perfectly suited for. So I just threw this out there. I had a crazy idea. I said, you know what?

00:12:43 BRIAN
Maybe I should come on the road with you for a short time and really learn about the inner workings of your operation. And then I’ll be better informed

00:12:53 BRIAN
about what it is you want, because so many of the clients think they know what they want and what they need, but they don’t.

00:13:01 DIANA
Right.

00:13:02 BRIAN
So I ended up going on the road with him and one month turned into six months. And we were in a new country every two weeks. It was a very jet set sort of thing with lifestyle management. And it reminded me of being with the Royal Saudis. And, um,

00:13:23 BRIAN
But interestingly enough, because I had been out of the game for a little while, it made me realize how important brushing up on your skills, you know,

00:13:38 BRIAN
professional development initiatives, because there were a few times where I stumbled, especially with technology. And it was a very interesting situation because I was training three other new people to the industry. That was one of the things I was tasked with. And, you know, these young folks coming in here and

00:14:02 BRIAN
growing up with iPhones in their hand. They’re very good with technology. So we had things that we taught each other. And in any case, that was a pretty fun adventure to kind of get back into the game again and

00:14:21 BRIAN
Be out there in the mix.

00:14:22 DIANA
Exactly. But how wonderfully ready to prepare yourself, you know, to find the right match for this customer. I think that’s the perfect approach.

00:14:30 DIANA
So you’ve been naming it already. You worked as an EA chief of staff to celebrities, billionaires and royal families. So for sure, there’s not only booking jets and villas and private security. There’s much more involved. So how would you describe some of your jobs you’ve been doing in the past?

00:14:50 BRIAN
You know, it’s very interesting because I came from the field and I’ve worked in a lot of different capacities, had different titles, worked with many different employers. The thing that kind of strikes me the most is how varied the industry really is.

00:15:14 BRIAN
This is quite a hot topic with job titles, duties, and responsibilities.

00:15:23 BRIAN
It’s very hotly contested in our industry. You can’t get five people to agree what a PA, EA, or chief of staff is. What does a butler do? What is a major dormo? I mean, people really get hot under the collar when these topics come up. You can’t get the private service professionals to agree. You certainly can’t get the employer’s degree and you can’t get the recruiters to agree either. So it’s a very unique industry we’re in, in that sense, because if you look at engineering or project management or even dentistry you know there are a lot of commonalities in those in those fields terminology procedures there’s a lot of uniformity in other industries there isn’t in ours so the thing that i’ve come to learn is that when the employers contact me

00:16:26 BRIAN
And they start using certain titles. It is really up to me to dig deep.

00:16:33 BRIAN
In fact, just two days ago, I talked to a high net worth client who had contacted me and he thought he needed a house manager.

00:16:44 BRIAN
Well, the more I probed, the more I learned about what he really needed. And I said, you actually need a domestic couple.

00:16:55 BRIAN
So many of the people that come to me, it’s their first time. You know, think about buying a home for the first time or going to college for the first time.

00:17:10 BRIAN
There are so many mistakes that you make. There’s so much naivete. And I say that with all due respect.

00:17:19 BRIAN
So it’s very difficult when you’re talking to the clients to get them to confess, if you will, about what it is they want and need because they’re holding their cards so close to their chest. But the other thing is, too, is they don’t have a way to express or articulate what it is they need because they just don’t have the vocabulary for it because it’s all new to them.

00:17:47 BRIAN
We often have this conversation behind the scenes with candidates and other recruiters about old money and new money. So in Europe, they’re doing, frankly, a much better job than we are in the United States with domestic staffing because it’s been around for a lot longer, you know, hundreds of years.

00:18:08 BRIAN
They’ve had all of these different positions in the estates. But for a lot of families in the United States, it’s all new money. So people come into money or they’ve inherited something. And then suddenly they have hundreds of millions of dollars and they’re buying these big estates or they’re being built custom. And then they’re walking into the HVAC room and there’s all these buttons and they don’t even know what to do. They don’t know how the systems work.

00:18:38 BRIAN
And then they start hiring staff on their own and it becomes a hot mess really quickly. And then they come, they go on the internet and they start doing some research and they say, oh, wow, there are professional outfits out there. There are domestic staffing recruiters that specialize in this space. And so most of the people that come to me,

00:19:03 BRIAN
um are in dire straits or they wouldn’t be coming to me in the first place many of them have been to other agencies and got burned and so it takes a great deal of patience

00:19:17 BRIAN
to be able to unwind the mess that they’re in it um the analogy that i could use is let’s say there was a big construction project happening and there’s a lot of moving parts and you had to fire the contractor and then another company has to come in

00:19:37 BRIAN
and clean up the mess. And they say, oh, look, this foundation was poured wrong and you’re getting cracks in this thing over here. And this was not, you know, I don’t have the vocabulary because I’m not an engineer or a contractor, but you get the idea.

00:19:52 DIANA
Absolutely.

00:19:53 BRIAN
Yeah, go ahead, please.

00:19:54 DIANA
I was going to say, because you just mentioned patience, I can only imagine that your clientele, I mean, do they have patience? Do they have time? It’s always like fast pace. I mean, what does patience mean? I mean, it is a journey, right? It’s not a fast match. It’s a journey to really a marathon sometimes to really find the right people, to find the right staff and the process you described. I can only imagine how much time it takes and how much kind of interviewing it takes from your perspective with your clients to really know, okay, who do you need? And now I start, you know, my process. So patience is tough because as we all say, time is money and usually there’s not enough time out there, right? So is there an understanding for patience when you talk to your clients? Yeah.

00:20:41 BRIAN
Well, when we are in this business, we in hospitality and especially in private service, we’re using the term thick skin. You have to have very thick skin and a lot of resilience. As recruiters, we’re always behind the eight ball because unfortunately, the clients, most of the time, they’re in a very big hurry. And the problem is that

00:21:10 BRIAN
You know, we live in this instant gratification world, which is especially true. It becomes heightened to the nth degree when you’re an ultra high net worth individual. They’re used to snapping their fingers and get everything they want in short order. But the problem is when you’re trying to find the perfect match made in heaven, it is not a process that can be rushed.

00:21:36 BRIAN
I got a call about a month ago.

00:21:40 BRIAN
from an ultra high net worth individual in the central states who was in, they were desperate.

00:21:48 BRIAN
You know, they wanted to hire someone yesterday. It was a great sense of urgency. That is almost always true. But with this one, it was exceptional. I mean, the assistant that I was talking to on behalf of the client was almost frantic. when you know they needed to hire someone right away because there was a big project they were involved in and the demands you know can come quickly and uh with a certain kind of fervor and we have to talk the clients off the ledge that’s really the best way i can describe it because

00:22:33 BRIAN
They’re already in a certain pattern that they’ve been following. And what I try to convey to them is that we want to break the cycle.

00:22:43 BRIAN
So if they have a great sense of urgency and they’re in a certain state of desperation, they’re going to make the wrong decision. And what we don’t want to happen as recruiters is we don’t want to get a call 45 days into the placement saying that there’s problems.

00:23:03 BRIAN
So those calls can either come from the candidates and or the clients.

00:23:08 BRIAN
So that’s why it’s so important to be thorough. And one of the things, the great difficulties I face is getting the clients to be candid with me. I often lose…

00:23:27 BRIAN
clients in the very front end of the process. And I’m fine with that because I have to press them.

00:23:35 BRIAN
Most recruiters are just chasing commissions. I’m not about the money. I’ve never been about the money.

00:23:44 BRIAN
So when I see that the process is not going the way that it should, sometimes I have to have a tough talk with the client. and say this is not the right fit because there’s a certain way that we do things around here and they don’t want to play ball um there there has to be a mutual respect and

00:24:13 BRIAN
For the people, for the candidates especially, the very high-level candidates that come to me, they’ve come to expect a certain level of due diligence, if you will, a certain vetting of the clients. Because the clients expect that we vet the candidates, of course, but I also do it the other way too, which is very…

00:24:36 BRIAN
untraditional, let’s say, in our industry. Most recruiters are beholden to the people who are paying their bills, and I understand why they have to be like that. But I have a certain level of an expectation of the client. I have a whole set of rules that I send them in the beginning about how we work, which is the short list is that

00:25:06 BRIAN
Everyone’s got to be paid legally on the books. No independent contractors and cash jobs, which is quite famous in our industry. Very important point you’re addressing.

00:25:16 SPEAKER_04
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:19 BRIAN
We have to have a salary range and job description on the table before we start, because what often happens is you’ll go through a weeks long or even months long interview process. And then here come the lowball offers.

00:25:39 BRIAN
And I have to know in my heart that the clients are genuine.

00:25:47 BRIAN
when they say, this is the final job description that we’ve discussed. I’m signing off on this. This is the salary range. I’m willing to pay at the minimum this and at the maximum this. And these are going to be the benefits. Because, you know, when you read these bad reviews on Google and the other

00:26:15 BRIAN
I forget the names of some of these review sites, but I look at what’s happening with the competition, and you’ll often see these things that were written by candidates that say things like, I was thrown under the bus by my agent.

00:26:32 BRIAN
uh i showed up to work it was nothing like what was said in the job description um i got my first paycheck it was 25 less than it was supposed to be and then the client said no this is your salary i had discussed it with your agent and

00:26:49 BRIAN
And it becomes a hot mess pretty fast. So I avoid all those problems right in the very beginning. And I make, you know, the clients have to be held accountable.

00:27:01 BRIAN
And what often happens is that, you know, I get ghosted because I’ll get emails from people. Oh, we’re looking for this, that and the other thing. And I say, well, review this page of my website first, because these are

00:27:13 BRIAN
how we this is how we play ball at the celebrity personal assistant network and then i often won’t hear back from them because when they when they see that they’re going to be held accountable and people have to be paid on the books and taxes have to be paid by the employer and the candidate and i insist that the client the candidates have health insurance and we have to you know document their hours and they have to be paid overtime by law and they have to have their breaks they don’t want all the rules that’s why some of these third-party sites have become so popular with clients taking out job ads on their own and they just put confidential employer i’ve come to learn by the way after doing this for 16 years when i interview a

00:28:06 BRIAN
candidates. And I said, well, how’d you get this job? How’d you get that job?

00:28:10 BRIAN
And then they tell me what a mess it was to say, yeah, I was on one of those job boards. It was a confidential employer ad. And, you know, when those employers go through those third party sites and they cut out the middleman, the recruiters, you’re giving up a lot.

00:28:29 BRIAN
You’re walking into a minefield when you don’t have a business entity protecting your interests because when you’re negotiating with billionaires on your own and you don’t have a seasoned professional on your side saying what about this what about this what about this you don’t have an employment contract you’re kidding you did all this on a handshake you’re you’re you’re you’re

00:28:56 DIANA
almost guaranteed to be walking into a mess in situations like that absolutely but you know what this speaks for the way you you operate and this is a huge amount of professional professionalism in there so um i can only salute you for also staying true to your values here you know and not uh jumping on every opportunity to make money but you know first of all

00:29:20 DIANA
seeing the priority and bringing two parties together and yeah, just sticking to values and your true beliefs. So I really salute this because this is not everything what we see out there, right?

00:29:39 BRIAN
Well, thank you for that. Yes. You know, I’m raising the bar. I’ve been trying to change the game. There’s a long road ahead of me.

00:29:50 BRIAN
But I’m trying to institute some standards and best practices. There’s a lot of lawlessness going on out there in private service and domestic staffing.

00:30:05 BRIAN
You know, there are plenty of blogs out there. And if you go to any of these conferences and things every year that some of these associations have, I mean, these are the hot topics that people are discussing either on stage or behind the scenes. So I’m one of the first, I suppose, to plant a flag and say, you know, there’s a better way to do this. And I hope more people will follow me.

00:30:34 DIANA
And I mean, our audience that is listening now to us for sure will appreciate your open words here, because I’m sure there’s always someone who’s listening now. And of course, thinking of is that in your career path for me? And should I should I join, you know, becoming a personal assistant to a billionaire, to a celebrity? So, when you look back at your career, allow me to ask this once again, because of course, when I go to your website, I see famous people on that website. There’s Alec Baldwin, there’s Jay Leno, you’ve been mentioning the Royal Saudi family. So, for sure, pinch me moment, but…

00:31:15 DIANA
And we all know that at the end, these were your executives, these were your bosses, these were the people you’ve been working with. And I remember when I talked to the assistant of Bill Gates or the former chief of staff to Oprah, they all say the same. Like the moment you feel like, oh, that’s a star, you’re losing, right? And because at the end, it’s your boss, it’s you.

00:31:37 DIANA
executive and you were supposed to support this executive in their everyday moment. Would you agree to that?

00:31:46 BRIAN
I would say that you really can’t be starstruck when you’re working in this industry. You know, I’ve had a lot of moments. I’ve been to a lot of parties and I’ve been inside a lot of big estates and

00:32:05 BRIAN
seen a lot of things going on behind the scenes. And the thing that I would like to really convey to people that they really have to understand is that this is a business and you have to be a very level-headed business person to be in this industry. And in fact, I would say that in almost every case, the people I’ve met were quite different

00:32:35 BRIAN
than their public personas. And in fact, I’ve been disappointed more than I’ve been delighted, I have to say, frankly. So that is why when you go into this industry, you really have to know that it is a business. And at the end of the day,

00:32:56 BRIAN
Private service professionals do face a lot of adversity. And I often have to have these tough conversations with people that I’m coaching who get discouraged about some of the things that are going on behind the scenes. And I try to get them to screw their head on straight and do a self-assessment and evaluate whether or not it is they want to continue on their career path.

00:33:25 BRIAN
The analogy that I like to use is with police officers or with teachers. So if you’re in law enforcement and you’re out there in the world and you’re not making much money and you’re getting shot at and you’re dealing with a lot of the…

00:33:42 BRIAN
uh dirty parts the the seedy underbelly of society it it makes you wonder why people would want to be in that profession but there is something about being a law enforcement officer that people really love and then the same thing can be said about teachers we know teachers get abused they’re they’re taking a lot of heat they’re working very long hours um

00:34:09 BRIAN
The helicopter parents and the kids shooting spitballs at them. Well, why would you want to do that for such a low pay? Well, there is something about that profession that delighted them. And that’s why they got into it.

00:34:24 BRIAN
So I say the same thing to private service professionals, right? There’s the service heart.

00:34:33 BRIAN
And sometimes people call it a servant’s heart. There’s something about the hospitality industry that people really love.

00:34:42 BRIAN
And so like any profession, there will be good times and there will be bad times. You have to maintain your composure.

00:34:51 BRIAN
A stiff upper lip, as the British say, right?

00:34:56 DIANA
Absolutely. And I have to jump in here as well, because I just read today, earlier, I’m sure you’re aware of that, because of your networks, Anna Vintor is looking again for a new assistant.

00:35:09 DIANA
Salaries, 80,000 US dollars. And I know a lot of assistants are probably listening to us and reading this at the moment. They would say 80,000. Oh, my goodness. This is not going to work for sure. The amount of work I bring is much more worth. Yeah.

00:35:25 BRIAN
It’s a lot worse than you think, because I do have that job posted on my website right now.

00:35:32 BRIAN
The salary range is actually from 60 to 80. So on the low end, you’re at 60. But even at the high end at 80 for New York City, this has upset quite a few people.

00:35:47 BRIAN
And I start getting emails about it. I should say, though.

00:35:55 BRIAN
It’s not unlike the entertainment industry. For example, those Hollywood agents that work at the big agencies had to get a $250,000 education from either USC or UCLA.

00:36:13 BRIAN
And they started in the mailroom and worked their way up the chain of command. And it’s going to be a good five years minimum.

00:36:24 BRIAN
of just scraping by, making nosebleed low salary to be able to work your way up to be an agent where you’re actually dealing with the A-list stars.

00:36:37 BRIAN
You could say the same thing about the movie studios. So the fashion industry is no different. So it seems incredibly unfair to be the personal assistant to Anna Wintour and work those really long hours and take the heat

00:36:53 BRIAN
for only $80,000. So in New York, San Francisco, LA, and Miami, it costs $5,000 a month or $60,000 a year.

00:37:07 BRIAN
just for a livable apartment. Right. So the only person that’s going to be able to take this role is going to have quite a few roommates or they’re going to be living with their parents, frankly. It’s going to be a lot of sacrifice to make it work. But what can be said, though, is that if you could do a job like that for two years, the sky is the limit. So many doors globally are going to fly open because the access that you’re going to get, the, um,

00:37:50 BRIAN
This just occurred to me.

00:37:54 BRIAN
For people who don’t know, if you work for the State Department or you’re a Secret Service agent or you work for the CIA, those salaries are incredibly low. You wouldn’t believe it.

00:38:09 BRIAN
But…

00:38:10 BRIAN
What a lot of people have on their minds when they go into a role like that is, I’m going to do it for five years. I’m going to receive millions of dollars of education and training. And then I’m going to open a consultancy and make $3 million a year running a security outfit or whatever it is that they’re thinking about. So if you want to work for Anna Wintour and you can…

00:38:41 BRIAN
financially get by the rewards at the end are going to be you know there’s going to be a big pot of gold at the end of the ring because you’re either going to be able to move up in that company and maybe become a vice president or it’s going to give you access to all the fashion designers

00:39:01 BRIAN
And so there are many rewards that are going to come from the training and education that you’re going to receive along the way. You have to do a lot of soul searching.

00:39:13 DIANA
Right.

00:39:15 DIANA
Brian, when you when you talk about this, would you say that there is actually a career path for an assistant, maybe starting as a personal assistant to Anna Wintour or Kim Kardashian? So is there a career path possible when you do a good job? I’m so glad you asked. Right.

00:39:34 BRIAN
I get emails every single day from people all over the world that are either in the industry already and they’re trying to level up or they’re thinking of breaking into the industry. I…

00:39:53 BRIAN
have to give them some very honest and candid advice about the career choices they’re making along the way. It is a little bit of a crapshoot, but you have to have a strategy.

00:40:10 BRIAN
Some celebrity assistant jobs, for example, on the outside might seem very glamorous.

00:40:18 BRIAN
But it depends who you’re working for. Could it be a stepping stone to something else? But I get these heartbreaking emails from people saying, I worked for this A-list celebrity for three years. I was being paid cash. Nothing was on the books. And I don’t work for that person anymore. They’ve changed agents. I can’t get in touch with the celebrity anymore. And what I’m leading up to is their employment is not verifiable.

00:40:48 BRIAN
And then I have to be the one to give them really bad news and say, I’m really sorry. You basically just wasted three years of your life because you it doesn’t count it’s like top gun below the hard deck doesn’t count right and if you can’t prove that you worked for somebody you don’t have a a recommendation letter you don’t have paid uh check stubs it doesn’t count so you know i’ll get um

00:41:20 BRIAN
It’s so shocking. I get these messages from people that are working for huge A-list stars that have production companies and they’re making like $150,000 a year. And they’re thinking, oh, I’m thinking of quitting and I want to go somewhere else. I said, don’t quit. I said, are you kidding me? I said, most celebrity assistants are only making $60,000 a year.

00:41:46 BRIAN
um some of them make less and you know that’s not even enough to cover rent and you know there’s a lot of french benefits like the private jets and the red carpet events and stuff but you have to strategize and and know what steps you’re gonna take where ultimate what’s what’s the end game You can’t do it for the sake of doing it just for the fun of it.

00:42:15 BRIAN
You have to always be planning. What is my next three, four or five years going to look like?

00:42:24 BRIAN
So I had somebody once, for example, sent me an email. He was working for a very high profile person in the entertainment industry and

00:42:36 BRIAN
She wanted to quit. And I said, listen, I already know what you’re going to tell me. I said, you’re working 14 hours a day, six, seven days a week. No matter how much you’re getting paid, it doesn’t seem like enough. I said, it’s not going to be any better anywhere else. I said, the bright side for you is that because the person you work for has this gigantic multinational company, that you can start showing your value, work your way up, and you could be a vice president to one of these many businesses that this

00:43:13 BRIAN
famous personality has, I said, you need to start thinking about it that way. Right. And so I often have to talk people off the ledge. I got another call once from somebody who said, I’m working on a private island. I’m only making $250,000 a year. And, you know, this person was working for an icon of industry. And they wanted to quit. And every single time, by the way, I get these calls from people without exception, every single time they fell into the role. They had not worked their way up to that position. So they didn’t have a certain level of gratitude and appreciation because they didn’t understand what was really going out there in the industry. They were living in a bubble and they didn’t actually know what kind of precious situation that they were really in.

00:44:07 BRIAN
So with the guy on the private island, I said, you need to calm down. Absolutely.

00:44:15 BRIAN
And reassess your situation. You’re in a you’re in a wonderful situation. It’s never going to get any better than this. But I get these calls from candidates and like, oh, I’m just going to get another two hundred fifty thousand dollar job working for this other high profile person. They just think these things are like apples on a tree and you can. And I said, you don’t understand. You know, on my facts page for candidates, you know, you go to my jobs page and there’s a link there before you can even read the jobs. It says candidate facts. And I write this really long. There must be twenty five hundred words on this page or more explaining this whole Q&A about how the system works. And I said, listen, you don’t understand how ultra hyper competitive it is.

00:45:07 BRIAN
The example that I used, I used Gal Gadot, the actress in Wonder Woman. I said, in the old days, the actresses in LA were only competing against the Hollywood people. Everything is global now. So when these people contact me and they’re looking for a search, we’re not just searching in one state or one country anymore. We are often on a global scale where they’re going to be competing competing against the world’s best people in the industry. You’re going to be up against hundreds of other A-list level candidates that have been working for billionaires.

00:45:50 BRIAN
They have master’s degrees. They have more qualifications than you do. They’re, you know, Six Sigma, Black Belts. I said, you don’t even know what you’re up against. And so part of what I do as a recruiter being in the middle,

00:46:05 BRIAN
I have to sober people up, both the clients and the candidates.

00:46:12 BRIAN
I talked to them about humility. I said, listen, I was just telling this ultra high net worth client the other day because there’s a certain air that they have about them and the demands that they’re making. I said, sir, listen to me very carefully.

00:46:29 BRIAN
I’m like a sports agent. representing the Michael Jordans of private service.

00:46:36 BRIAN
These people are like sports stars. They are in demand. They know their worth. They are hard to recruit.

00:46:48 BRIAN
So everybody has to go in with a certain level of patience and humility.

00:46:57 BRIAN
Because the candidates sometimes are acting a little arrogant about who they’ve worked with. And oh, I look at Ryan. Do you need to take another look at my resume? I’ve seen your resume. I know who you’ve worked with. And I want to tell you, it’s not a slam dunk like you think it’s going to be. I have the same talk with the clients, too.

00:47:19 BRIAN
Because if people’s expectations are too far apart and then you get these people in the room and they start interviewing with each other and egos get in the way, you’re not going to be able to come to an agreement. It’s just not going to work. You know, I get calls all the time from people.

00:47:36 BRIAN
They’re very discouraged. I remember I got a call once from a private consultancy that was in Las Vegas.

00:47:45 BRIAN
And they had been trying to broker a deal. They weren’t a domestic staffing firm, but they worked with a lot of high net worth people. And they had a client who was a multi-billion dollar figure in the Middle East and the United Arab Emirates. And the woman was almost in tears. And she said, we spent six months trying to close a deal with a candidate.

00:48:07 BRIAN
We offered her a $250,000 salary and a very nice title. We were going to relocate her. And remember, in the UAE, we’re talking tax-free salaries. Exactly. To bring home $250,000, you’d have to be making $500,000 in your Western country because of the tax bracket you’d be in. And then plus you’re getting…

00:48:32 BRIAN
The luxury car that’s included and a luxury condo or high rise apartment that’s worth millions of dollars that you get to stand for free. So you get all the perks, you know, so we’re talking comp packages all in that are worth maybe a million dollars. And then they. they couldn’t work it out.

00:48:55 BRIAN
They couldn’t close the deal. And then they’re like, oh, we’re so discouraged. We have to start all over again. And the reason that these deals fall apart is because you don’t have a middle person like myself trying to broker it and be in front of these problems. I mean, when you’ve been doing it for 16 years like I have, you can be very predictive.

00:49:19 BRIAN
I can look at someone’s resume and talk to them for five minutes and then talk to the client and know right away, instantly, what kind of problems are going to present themselves down the road. And in fact, those problems come in stages. I say, you know, two weeks into the process, this is the hurdle that it’s going to present itself. And after we jump that hurdle, this is going to happen. And almost like clockwork.

00:49:48 BRIAN
You become like a wizard. You’re clairvoyant. And you can just start seeing. So you have to be ahead of these things. And if you don’t,

00:49:59 BRIAN
Put people’s heads on the right way from the very beginning, and I mean both the candidates and the clients. You’re almost sure to be in a situation where you’re going to invest weeks or months of time, and then there’s not going to be any fruit at the end.

00:50:14 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:16 BRIAN
The chasm will be so big that it will be impossible to jump over. You’re like Evo Knievel on the motorcycle jumping over Caesar’s palace fountains trying to get over the canyon. If you see those Evo Knievel wipeouts that are so famous, this is what happens sometimes when you’re putting deals together.

00:50:35 SPEAKER_04
Mm-hmm.

00:50:37 BRIAN
the catastrophic train wrecks that come afterwards. And then the tempers come because then the candidates get upset. The clients get upset. I’ve invested weeks of time. Look what happened. And I said, Hey, remember when we talked about it, you could go back and read the email and I encourage you to do it this way. And you didn’t want to do it. And, you know, so a lot of consulting and consoling.

00:51:03 BRIAN
as part of my job as a recruiter at this level.

00:51:07 DIANA
And this is why we need these agencies, right?

00:51:10 DIANA
Just because the process, again, you’ve been describing, it’s just a huge amount of time dealing with both parties, consulting with both parties, coaching both parties, being a mentor for these people. So, yeah, I mean, incredible job you’re running and also the insights you hear, of course, with every case you get on your desk. So I would love to hear a little bit more also about the skill set they should bring to the table. You’ve been great. telling us thick skin you’ve been telling us resilience is there anything else i mean can only imagine because of the clientele that becomes more international there needs um language skills for sure uh what else would you add i mean in order to to serve this that’s a great question so um somewhere on my website i have a graphic of a three-way venn diagram

00:52:07 BRIAN
It might be on my employer’s facts page on the bottom. I’m trying to remember. But on that Venn diagram, in the very center of those three rings that come together, it says lightning in a bottle. And the three categories for the Venn diagram are hard skills, soft skills, and then traits. This industry is wildly…

00:52:36 BRIAN
unpredictable. So you could be an estate manager for a high net worth person in tech, let’s say.

00:52:45 BRIAN
And those two, you can have two different estate managers working in a 20,000 square foot estate and both the employers are in tech and the jobs will be night and day different from each other. So the first thing I want to say is

00:53:05 BRIAN
It’s really hard to coach people on a career path because, well, this just occurred to me. So I got to meet Drew Barrymore once.

00:53:15 BRIAN
I was at a small event. I was there talking to her and her producing partner.

00:53:25 BRIAN
I apologize. This was 10 years ago. I don’t remember that person’s name. But the story that I was told

00:53:35 BRIAN
I wasn’t the only one there. Drew Barrymore said that she picked up the phone and called this woman who had never been in the entertainment industry before. She had met her at a wedding and said, I’m starting my own production company.

00:53:49 BRIAN
Charlie’s Angels was the first big movie that they made.

00:53:53 BRIAN
And she called this woman and said, I want you to be my producing partner. So this woman said, I read a book about being a movie producer.

00:54:04 BRIAN
And then come to find out when I actually started producing, nothing that I learned in the book was true. Now, that said about private service also. So I could coach people six ways from Sunday about what happened when I was in the industry.

00:54:25 BRIAN
And of course, I have a lot of other stories from other people I’ve coached, but plus the candidates that became clients. And, you know, I have a whole encyclopedia of knowledge.

00:54:36 BRIAN
But sometimes almost none of what I could say could apply to a very specific situation that somebody was in.

00:54:45 BRIAN
But what can you do? Well, here are some commonalities that you’re, regardless of whether you’re a nanny or a security agent or personal assistant or state manager or whatever, right? You’re going to need very thick skin and incredible patience.

00:55:05 BRIAN
Project management is a very big one because regardless of your employer,

00:55:15 BRIAN
You’re going to be in situations where you might have to run events or you’re going to have a lot of moving parts or there might be a construction project. So getting the PMP certificate is not something that very many people talk about. But if you get yourself involved in project management, there’s no way to lose. Another commonality is that you really need to up your skills with Microsoft Office.

00:55:46 BRIAN
Most people who think they’re black belt wizards at MS Office, they really aren’t. They don’t know every single command in the ribbon.

00:55:57 BRIAN
They just don’t. They think they’re pretty good at the commands that they do know.

00:56:03 BRIAN
But when you decide to become certified in Microsoft Office, you’re inevitably going to be learning things that you didn’t know before, especially where you get into Excel. That’s my Achilles heel. I was never very good at Excel. But if you’re going to be working for a billionaire or you’re going to be an estate manager, You’re going to have to manage a lot of data. You’re going to be aggregating things and you’re going to have to be a wizard with Microsoft Excel and, of course, Word and then the calendars and all of that. So in addition to PMP, I would say, you know, up your skills in Microsoft Office. That will never fail you.

00:56:53 BRIAN
And what also people have to do, I often get emails from people who said, I’m the neighbor’s niece. I just got hired. I’m starting in two days. I’m working for a billionaire. I have absolutely no idea what to do.

00:57:10 BRIAN
Crash course. You know, I say go to the site map on my website. There is no other website anywhere in the world that has as many resources as one place available for free to the public as my website. There’s no there’s no close second. You know, I got.

00:57:28 BRIAN
how to build a billionaire’s wine cellar, all the different models for private jets and the distances that they can travel and how much weight for the luggage, what it means to be a sommelier, how to pour wine. I mean, you name it. If it has to do with private service, it’s on my website. So I say you have to steep yourself in the world

00:57:57 BRIAN
of the private service professional and start learning about the exotic car fleets. And, you know, I got a funny story. When I started working for the Royal Saudis, I didn’t know what a Maybach was.

00:58:14 BRIAN
And they were talking Maybach, Maybach. And I was like, what’s a Maybach? I mean, I made myself look like a fool.

00:58:21 BRIAN
So 20 years ago, the tools that are available to people today were not available to me. So part of why…

00:58:33 BRIAN
I’ve built my website the way I did with all the resources is because I made my own wish list. What do I wish I knew?

00:58:45 BRIAN
Right. And so I put it all out there because every day, just like there’s a new busload of people that show up at Hollywood and they want to be stars and they’re fresh, fresh off the bus, as they say, they’re fresh off the bus and private service, too.

00:59:00 BRIAN
There are 3,000 billionaires in the world. There are more than 50,000 households that have net worth between $50 and $500 million. I mean, the debt…

00:59:15 BRIAN
The wealth is just fantastic. You know, these people can employ small armies of staff. And every day there’s a whole new group of people that are starting a private service that don’t know what to do. They can go to my website and they can dive in and start steeping themselves in the language in the world.

00:59:35 DIANA
But how generous of you to put it out there, because I can only imagine these people who are probably settled maybe after one or two years, they got to learn on the job. But again, there’s always how we can do things better and how we can learn, especially when it comes to technology. You need to be a game changer and you need to embrace technology. But it’s not easy that you go out there as the personal assistant of Drew Barrymore and say, oh, I need to network with someone. I need to have someone next to me sharing a little bit out of my role.

01:00:13 DIANA
And of course, maybe letting them know who I work with. So it’s not easy to talk about your role with everyone out there. So are there any specific celebrity networks out there? I know in New York, there’s a big one. Probably L.A. also has one.

01:00:27 BRIAN
I would say on that subject, the good news is for people that are either starting in the industry or people that are already in the industry and they think they need help. There is no shortage of associations and clubs and different things that you can join to help, you know, so you can get advice, so you can level up.

01:00:52 BRIAN
There are clubs and associations for estate managers and nannies and personal assistants and executive assistants. There’s a whole cornucopia of podcasts and everything. So I would tell people you need to dive in and see what works for you. A lot of these…

01:01:16 BRIAN
associations charge or their invite only. They charge and their invite only. So you got to see what works for you. You know, there are plenty of choices out there. There aren’t any burning recommendations I have, but you just

01:01:35 BRIAN
have to see what fits for you. Because what might be a great association for one person might not necessarily be good for someone else. You have to know what niche you’re in.

01:01:50 DIANA
And the funny thing is, if I can add this, because I was kind of helping someone in Germany to work with a high-profile executive.

01:02:01 DIANA
And I know she’s in the job now for three years. It’s a good match. So they are just wonderful together. But I know that this client doesn’t want her to be visible on social media, doesn’t want her to go out there on networking events mentioning the name and the company she works for. Do you hear this a lot also in the U.S. ?

01:02:23 BRIAN
This has always been a problem in our industry. So this idea of discretion and keeping a very low profile.

01:02:34 BRIAN
I’m the poster child for what you’re not supposed to do, but I’m not in the industry anymore. So that’s why a lot of people…

01:02:43 BRIAN
that I know that have been in the industry for a very long time and they’ve survived and they’ve been able to go from one job to another. Generally speaking, they keep it very, very low profile. People that are on social media a little bit too much, even if they’re not mentioning their boss’s name or anything, as soon as you kind of cross that line and you go into that other world, it makes employers nervous because then

01:03:14 BRIAN
they start asking themselves is this person gonna start making videos and taking pictures behind the scenes of things that they shouldn’t and so you you have to be very careful about these sort of situations um because when you’re working in private service um you just don’t know you know it’s all right going back to what i was uh saying before how hyper competitive it is and you’re going to be competing against hundreds of other people well at the end of the day it’s always going to come down to two people and then they start splitting hairs so if they say well here are two people that seem equally qualified they both work you know the resumes are very strong candidate A is on social media a little bit too much and candidate B is a lot quieter it’s a pretty easy decision when you get to that when you’re faced with that sort of dilemma so these are the things people need to be careful of I recall now I was coaching someone years ago

01:04:30 BRIAN
Very nice gentleman, lots of experience, and he was having trouble scoring his next gig. And I looked at his resume and his social media and I said, you know, I have some suggestions for you about how you can polish up a little bit.

01:04:49 BRIAN
The thing that I will never forget as long as I live is on his LinkedIn profile, if you can believe it, he had pictures of someone’s feet.

01:04:59 BRIAN
And I was like, what is that? Because when you comment on people’s profiles now, that becomes part of your professional identity because it’s right on the homepage of your LinkedIn profile, right under your headshot, it shows your activity. So someone had taken a picture of their feet and they said, oh, I’m so sore. I was on my feet all day and I just got a foot massage. And it was a weird thing that the person said,

01:05:28 BRIAN
picture of their feet after they got a foot massage and then he had like commented on that yeah listen man let me let me be frank with you said, I’m a billionaire and I’m looking at your resume and I’m thinking of hiring you to share all my secrets with you and give you all my credit card numbers. And I’m looking at your LinkedIn profile and I see a picture of someone’s feet. I’m going to run the other direction. I’m just thinking. But the guy, he was a bright, the guy was coaching. He’s a very bright person. He has a lot of, but he just didn’t,

01:06:03 BRIAN
He wasn’t thinking of it that way. But because I’m an outside person looking in and I have that perspective, I said, it doesn’t work, man. You’ve got to delete all that stuff. When you’re looking for a job, especially, all your social media profiles need to be on mute. You need to go back. There was this…

01:06:25 BRIAN
guy once i remember um worked at um one of the one of the world’s largest and most powerful talent agencies you know talking about like this anna wintour thing about the the doors that it opens well this guy had worked at this mega power agency but he had been unemployed

01:06:48 BRIAN
for over a year. And I thought, that doesn’t even make sense. I’m looking at his resume and he went to the fancy school and paid $250,000 and stopped school. And

01:06:59 BRIAN
Then I, I Googled him and there was his Facebook page and he’s on a table in Vegas with his shirt off acting like a fool with like a shots and just acting like an idiot. And I thought, Oh my God, no wonder, you know, because of course is 93% of employers and any industry are going to

01:07:28 BRIAN
google you at some point during the process and they usually do it sooner than later and here he is with a very bad social media presence and what i don’t understand about this why people keep making this mistake yeah there have been thousands of stories online fired over facebook posts and stuff i mean people know now more than ever how sensitive it is to do this

01:07:51 BRIAN
And people keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again. I hate to say it. It’s usually the younger people. People over 40 usually learn a lot of really hard lessons in their life. And there is a certain maturity level, both personally and professionally, that the younger people don’t have. But when I see these snafus that people make, it almost always is the younger generation. Right. So people need, you know, they should be teaching this stuff in school, in both high school and college. They need to be teaching what it means to have good business sense.

01:08:31 DIANA
And for every industry, right? For every industry, it’s important because as you said, everyone is going to Google you and keep a low profile, especially in the industry you are dealing with. And I remember… It’s been a few years ago. And of course, I also follow quite a few celebrities on Instagram. And here and there, actually, you see how they sometimes tag people from their staff team. And here and there, it includes an assistant. So, yes, Kris Jenner’s male assistant she has and Gwyneth Paltrow mentioned one of her assistants in the past. And every time when I looked at their profile, they were absolutely low profile. Here we go. Silent, you know, and so super discreet. And it’s exactly what you need to do. And thank you so much for highlighting this once again, because I think out of this wonderful, wonderful, honest and transparent conversation we had,

01:09:27 DIANA
It’s just not this fancy job that some people see on an ad, like reading, and I went towards a job ad, or also something that you’ve been posting recently, a Formula One driver is looking for an assistant, traveling to different states. So please, people, it’s not everything you see out there. So I’m glad that you are here with us today to really clarify a few things.

01:09:51 BRIAN
Well, yeah, the analogy that I like to use is,

01:10:00 BRIAN
those actors that go on those shows and they do the interviews and I’m thinking of the actor’s studio and you’ll see Julia Roberts or, you know, they’ll have all these huge stars. And I posted about this recently. There was an article about celebrities and billionaires saying, follow your dreams and all of this stuff.

01:10:25 BRIAN
And some people say that it’s bad advice.

01:10:28 BRIAN
It might be.

01:10:30 BRIAN
The thing that discourages me about those shows where the actors go on and they do the interviews, the part that they never say, I’ve never heard it once. The ugly truth is that 99.9% of people say,

01:10:46 BRIAN
who moved to LA that want to be an actor will never make a dime.

01:10:51 BRIAN
Statistically speaking, there’s a 99.9% chance you’re going to fail. They never talk about that. I think it’s irresponsible not to do that. So while I am an advocate for our industry, I’m a cheerleader for our industry.

01:11:11 BRIAN
It is a wonderful industry.

01:11:13 BRIAN
At the same time, I don’t sugarcoat anything. I am very clear with people, even when I coach them, that there are pros and cons to this industry. And I am willing to share that information. Most people aren’t.

01:11:31 DIANA
Yes. And that’s exactly why you are on the show here, because I absolutely appreciate your openness here.

01:11:40 DIANA
There are actually two last questions I have for you, Brian.

01:11:44 DIANA
We need to find out what’s going on with L.A. because a lot of celebrities, and I’ve read it in various articles, are leaving L.A. because the situation is not as safe as it was anymore, talking about crime, talking about drugs. So how do you see the situation?

01:12:00 BRIAN
Yeah.

01:12:03 BRIAN
They’re in dire straits. I’m not going to sugarcoat that.

01:12:07 BRIAN
The crime is up. The homeless encampments everywhere. San Francisco is not much better.

01:12:16 BRIAN
Two years ago, like I said, when I went on the road with a client, I spent an extended amount of time in San Francisco. I was there for several months. And

01:12:30 BRIAN
California, generally speaking, they’ve got some challenges that they’re trying to face.

01:12:36 BRIAN
So the good news is this. 3000 billionaires in the world. About 600 or so are in the United States, less than 100 are in New York City.

01:12:53 BRIAN
Now, what am I getting at? What I’m getting at is there are billionaires and ultra high net worth families everywhere in every state in America.

01:13:05 BRIAN
There are 10 million millionaires. So what is that? A couple hundred thousand per state. There there’s no shortage of people right there in your backyard, wherever you live, that you can work with. So you don’t have to have stars and go to San Francisco, L.A., New York or Miami.

01:13:25 DIANA
I mean, look at people like Matthew McConaughey. He’s out in Texas. And, you know, I also read the other day, who was it? One of Kelly Clarkson who said, I’m going to move to New York. And if you want to keep me as your moderator for the show, you need to move the whole production to New York. Right. So there’s a lot of things going on. Right.

01:13:44 BRIAN
Yeah. So what I tell people is one of the biggest surprises of my career is, you know, I get these frantic calls from people in the in the middle states. So not just the Midwest, but any of those states, you know, as soon as you go off the coast, the East Coast or the West Coast, and you work your way inward, it becomes incredibly difficult that world class talent. The big shocker to me is how unwilling people are.

01:14:14 BRIAN
to make a move, go out of their comfort zone. I’m working with a client now in the Midwest who’s a high-profile billionaire, and they’re doing a nationwide search for a chef and a housekeeper. And the reason is they can’t find the caliber of talent that they need.

01:14:41 BRIAN
outside of those big cities, right? But the problem is a lot of candidates don’t want to move.

01:14:48 BRIAN
This is a shocker to me because you could, if you were making 150 in New York and you moved to the Midwest to make it 150, you’ve just almost, you’ve definitely doubled your salary, maybe even tripled, you know, relatively speaking, because the cost of living is so much lower.

01:15:12 BRIAN
when you’re out of those big cities, but people get kind of too comfortable with the big city life. And I had a guy once that was in, you know, I get people from Texas and Montana.

01:15:28 BRIAN
In Idaho, they have these huge ranches. They’re willing to pay 150 and up. They can’t get the talent because people don’t want to go to their comfort zones and move out of the big cities. So I would say to the people who are new in the business,

01:15:43 BRIAN
that want some world-class opportunities, take the road less traveled.

01:15:51 BRIAN
Go out of the big cities because if you’re trying to level off or you’re trying to break in and you’re competing against that world-class talent in those big cities, it’s going to be much harder for you.

01:16:02 BRIAN
If you take the road less traveled and you’re willing to go out of your comfort zone, there are some world-class, once-in-a-lifetime opportunities out there just sitting, waiting to be had if you’re willing to go for it.

01:16:19 DIANA
And people don’t do it on your own. You know, make sure you reach out to Brian, who has the right network.

01:16:26 DIANA
So make sure you check in with our show notes, because you’ll find all the information around Brian’s agency and his LinkedIn profile. And yeah, of course, make sure you connect and learn even more.

01:16:44 DIANA
But I have one last question, actually, because you have been on the road a lot with your former executives when you were part of this industry, being there as an assistant chief of staff yourself. So when you look back at all these trips, all these private jets going to all different countries, what is one of the most memorable trips you still have in your head where you think like, that was great and maybe I’m going to go back one day?

01:17:11 BRIAN
It’s very ironic that you’re asking this question. I did a tour of the Middle East.

01:17:19 BRIAN
I was in several countries, including Saudi Arabia. I might be going back actually very soon. I have something hot off the press that this is the first I’ve talked about it, the exclusive on your show.

01:17:36 BRIAN
I might be going back to the Middle East for a project. You know, the Middle East is there’s so much to offer. You know, I’ve been all over Europe, all over Asia. I’ve been to the Middle East and there’s something the mystique of it.

01:17:55 BRIAN
It’s not what people think it is. You know, of course, certain places you do have to be careful, but that’s true in Europe, too.

01:18:05 SPEAKER_04
Absolutely.

01:18:05 BRIAN
Paris and London can be very dangerous.

01:18:08 BRIAN
Yeah. So I had a wonderful trip to the Middle East.

01:18:15 BRIAN
I’ve been to Dubai.

01:18:18 BRIAN
Even though it’s not the Middle East, I’ve been to Istanbul, but, you know, it’s an Islamic culture. I was in Jordan.

01:18:27 BRIAN
I loved it. You know, there’s so much to offer.

01:18:32 BRIAN
There was that story I told you of the consultancy in Vegas and someone turned down a $250,000 job. They didn’t want to move to the Emirates. Yeah. There are a lot of opportunities out there in the Middle East.

01:18:51 BRIAN
I think people should look into it.

01:18:53 DIANA
Absolutely. I actually teach there. I have clients when I run my webinars. So a lot of assistants joining my webinars from the Middle East. And these are very high profile assistants. And really, yeah, it’s a whole different level, as we all know, how we look at Dubai and also Saudi Arabia, what you have been sharing with us or other countries.

01:19:18 DIANA
And I like to observe that. And by the way, I also like the fact that they actually have a lot of mail assistance in these countries. Is this something you observe as well?

01:19:27 BRIAN
Yeah. So, uh, particularly in the middle East, um, there’s a lot of opportunity for men because as we know, I mean, there, there’s no sugarcoating this, you know, most assistance and private service or in the corporate world are women.

01:19:44 BRIAN
It’s, it’s a little tougher for men. Um, for a lot of reasons, I don’t want to get into all of them, but has something to do with, uh, a little bit to do with the egos of the VIPs that you’re working for. But again,

01:19:56 BRIAN
For cultural reasons, the women in the Middle East hire female companions or assistants and then the men hire males.

01:20:09 BRIAN
So, yeah, there are definitely a lot of opportunities out there. You know, Saudi Arabia has really opened up.

01:20:17 BRIAN
Their crown prince has completely, I could use the word revolutionized, you know, Saudi Arabia. There are a lot of they’ve dropped a lot of these old school rules and women are driving now and going to school and, you know, taking their burqas off and all of this. So, you know, movie theaters are opening. It’s a completely different world than it used to be.

01:20:43 BRIAN
Yeah. Go ahead.

01:20:47 DIANA
So it must be very interesting. I mean, first of all, thank you so much for sharing the hot news that there is a project waiting for you. And so I can only imagine how excited you are also to going back to these places where you have been working and spending your time and, you know, freshening up memories.

01:21:03 BRIAN
Yeah. Looking forward to it.

01:21:06 DIANA
It has been a huge pleasure talking to you once again. Thank you so much for giving us your view of this industry. Because for sure, a lot of people, as we heard, look totally into the wrong direction when they see a job ad and they see a celebrity name and they see a billionaire’s estate. So everyone out there who is interested, of course, in getting to know more about this industry, make sure you reach out to Brian. And yeah, just… hear a little bit more about the things you’ve been sharing with us great wisdom you’ve been sharing so thank you so much once again and wishing you all the best and enjoy the rest of the farthest day yes it’s my pleasure thank you have a great day thank you

01:21:52 DIANA
You never know when it’s time to find the next challenge. So make sure to reach out to Brian Daniel. We have all the necessary links in the show notes. And maybe he’s going to be a big help for you for finding the next match. Thank you so much, Brian, for being on the show. And I hope to meet you one day in person.

Ep 375: Strategic Partner in the Executive Suite – Diana Brandl’s Conversation with Anne Marie Otañez

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 10 May 2026 15:20:05 +0000

In this spotlight episode of Diana Brandl’s Executive Office Insights, Anne Marie Otañez details her intentional career path, moving from early roles at Netscape, Disney, and Apple to her current strategic position.

Learn what it truly means to be a Chief of Staff—a trusted partner, liaison, confidant, and proxy—and the importance of clearly defining the role against that of an Executive Assistant. Anne Marie, who is also an author and the founder of the Chief of Staff Academy, shares how she supports senior leaders, manages a 100% remote work environment with intentional travel, and her goal to build a sustainable family business. Tune in to Episode #375 for insider knowledge and new perspectives on leadership and executive support.

Connect with Anne Marie Otañez

ABOUT ANNE MARIE

Anne Marie Otañez is an accomplished Chief of Staff and author of The Chief of Staff: An Insider’s Guide to Becoming a Strategic Partner in the Executive Suite. With over 20 years of leadership experience, including a tenure at Microsoft, Anne Marie has navigated the complexities of executive roles with resilience and grace. As a Black woman and daughter of immigrants, she brings a unique and empathetic perspective to leadership, emphasizing the importance of organizational alignment, team trust, and personal well-being. She is the Founder of Own Your Power with Anne Marie, an organization focused on Executive Coaching with an eye to the Chief of Staff domain as well as the creator of The Chief of Staff Academy.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Thanks for tuning in. Check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/375.

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Being a chief of staff at Microsoft, I’ve been able to support some very senior level executive and understand some of their pain points and how can I step in and alleviate some of that pain, making sure that I fill a gap that they may not be able to fill. but also just be a really good, trusted partner. The relationship that a chief of staff has with their executive is very different than the relationship a manager has with an employee. I know the secrets, and I don’t necessarily want to know the secrets.

I know. They can be quite a burden, right?

I’ve got a wall right next to me, and I’ve got it posted there. and as I make progress, I write on that piece of paper. I’ve got paper all over my desk.

00:01:29
Wait a moment. Working for Microsoft, talking about paper, You want to tell me you’re still a paper pen girl? I’m part of the club.

00:01:38
I am. When I worked for Netscape, we were battling Microsoft at the time. There was a battle for browser wars. And at the time, Netscape had 74% market share, which is unheard of for a company to even have double digits market share, but to have it in such a large quantity. And I said, I’ll never work for Microsoft because at the end, Microsoft kneecaps Netscape, people change, companies change. And here I am today, I work for Microsoft.

00:02:11
Welcome to Executive Office Insights with your host, Diana Brandl, consultant and coach for executive support. I travel around the globe to bring you the most exciting voices in the industry in front of my microphone. Get inspired by insider knowledge, real success stories, and new perspectives on leadership and executive support.

00:02:35
I love when people are active on social media and when they stand for their clear opinions and when they root for others. And one of these incredible ladies is Anne Marie.

00:02:47
I followed her on LinkedIn. She speaks a lot about chief of staff.

00:02:52
And that’s why I wanted to hear a little bit more from her, from her career. She just wrote a book. So make sure you check in with our show notes, of course. And now it’s time to enjoy the episode. I’m very excited to welcome a guest that is actually in the U.S. right now. Hello, Anne Marie. How are you? I am well. Thank you for having me, Diana. How are you doing? I’m good. As I was telling you, I’m still on my winter break in the Middle East. So we could not be, you know, more far away, actually. But technology, you know, makes it possible. So let us know, where are you exactly based?

00:03:27
So you said I’m in the United States. I’m in Utah. So I’m in a city called Eagle Mountain, which is so far away from the city. And so I tease my husband because I don’t leave the house because when I leave the house, I got to do everything because I’m just far away from civilization. But we’re in this nice little city and the kids laugh in the streets, which is something I wanted to be able to hear. So I’m in Utah, USA. Wonderful. Have you always been in that state? Is it your native state or have you been moving around? So I was actually born in New York and I was raised in California. So I live in Utah. My brother moved out here and I wanted to be close to him and his family. I am a beach girl. I’m a sun girl. So in the winter, I hibernate. Yeah.

00:04:15
I stay in. My husband loves the snow. And we’ve been having really mild winters. So I have been enjoying the fact that there’s no snow. And poor guy. He just…

00:04:27
He’s just hoping for some snow. And I’m like, no, I can drive at least.

00:04:32
You know, everyone knows that I’m not a big fan of snow, so I’d rather have my palm trees around for Christmas than going for skiing or something. I know probably lots of our viewers and listeners have a different opinion, but I’m a palm tree girl.

00:04:48
Yes, you and I are in the same camp. Yes, and especially coming from Germany, you know, tough winters, so you really want to escape.

00:04:56
But it’s funny that you mentioned New York because I’m going to be there in April and April is the month for our profession. It’s Administrative Professionals Month. So we are honoring all the wonderful people out there who work in the executive support field and can’t wait to dive into your career. We’re going to tell a little bit about this today in our episode. So why don’t we start a little bit about your background? Who is Anne Marie?

00:05:21
Absolutely. So there’s a lot about my background. So from a professional space, I’ve been a career program and project manager and stepped into the business manager chief of staff area several years ago. But I’ve always loved just… taking something and completing it. And I just felt like I had a natural aptitude for that. And so I have been able to work for several tech companies. I’ve worked in the healthcare industry, entertainment, and my job was here, Anne Marie, we need you to take care of this. And sometimes I would have a team that reported into me. And a lot of times they were just matrix people who I had to use my influence to get them to get the work done. And so from a professional perspective, that’s who I am. From a personal perspective, I’m an older sister. I’m a daughter. My husband and I are in the middle of trying to adopt. Wonderful.

00:06:15
A mother at some point. And so I’ve got, you know, all of these things. I’m a dog owner, a cat lover. Wonderful.

00:06:23
So the house is full, I can say, huh? Very full. Very, very full. And we’re trying to add some kids, so we want it even fuller. Amazing. And that’s the perfect way starting a family. Was the dog first or the cat? The dog was first. So it’s funny. The dog came first. Then the husband came. Oh.

00:06:42
The husband loves cats.

00:06:44
And I’ve always been a dog person. So it was the dog, the husband, the cat.

00:06:50
Now we have dogs and cats.

00:06:52
I’m just picturing the situation in the bedroom, like who’s, you know, trying to find the best spot or are you someone that is very strict with, you know, cuddling with animals in the bedroom? I’m guilty. I have to say I’m guilty. So we have big dogs and I love to cuddle with my dogs and my husband will shoo him off the bed, but then the cat jumps on and cuddling with the cat. And I’m thinking something’s not right here. Yeah.

00:07:21
It’s so funny. I love to hear these stories. And of course, you know, wishing you all the best for the adoption process. I know it’s a long process. So wonderful to see that you are walking this journey. So good luck with that.

00:07:35
So was it a specific childhood dream you had back then in your mind? I mean, the traditional, I want to be a flight attendant. I want to be a nurse. I want to be a teacher. Was it something on your agenda or were you heading a total different direction back then in your mind?

00:07:50
So I think it’s interesting because I thought about this as a child. There’s several things I wanted to be. I wanted to be a singer and I dabbled just very little in it. I actually wanted to be president of the United States at one point because as a child, as a child, I felt politicians are just not very honest and I’m an honest person. So I would be a fresh face.

00:08:16
And the things that I wanted to change. There’s so many things that I wanted to be growing up, but I didn’t know. And I was very lucky that when I was taking some of the testing in high school, sometimes they’ll, and I mean, use the word pigeonhole specifically. Sometimes they’ll pigeonhole people and say, you have the skills to be an accountant or you have the skills to be this. When I did my testing, it said, you can be whatever you want to be. You have skills in a lot of different areas. which I didn’t realize how it just opened the door for me to just figure out what did I want to lean into. And me, I did a small stint as an entrepreneur, and it was just to raise money. And I would knock on doors and tell people, here are the list of jobs I can do. I’m trying to raise some money.

00:09:02
Let me know which one of these jobs would work out for you. And so as a child, I just thought I’m –

00:09:09
I don’t have to do anything. I can do whatever I want to do. And then I happen to step into this more program type of world and just embrace it. Wonderful. I love the fact that you mentioned, I wanted to become a president and I wanted to become a singer. So if I ask you right now, what’s on your Spotify playlist, what kind of music do you enjoy to listen to?

00:09:34
Oh, so my playlist will have Rihanna. Sure. The other day. So my niece actually assists me with my business. She’s my first employee. And so we have one together and we were listening to Britney Spears and she, and I said, everybody loves Britney Spears. It doesn’t matter. We all love her. We all are like, we love Britney. Yeah.

00:09:58
um so i will have things that are pop i i have taylor swift and the taylor swift is because of my niece he is a swifty and so that definitely influences what i listen to um i listen to music that just makes me feel good and puts a smile on my face and and so i’ll have R&B I’ll have hip-hop I’ll have country and there’s times where I just want to listen to music that’s uh like meditative and so I have things there’s an artist called Yuruma and music is beautiful and soothing and so I’ll listen to that music so it just depends on what my mood is yeah that’s the good choices we have on Spotify right

00:10:41
Wonderful. So after, you know, having the childhood dream in your head and then, of course, going through school and education. So how did it all start with your career? What was your first job? And why don’t you lead us through a little bit to the function you’re in right now?

00:10:56
Absolutely. So my first job was with a company. So I’m going to date myself. A company called Netscape.

00:11:04
And I worked for a wonderful woman who actually took me. I followed her to a couple of different career jobs where I worked at a startup and then definitely was in the tech space. But I started working at Netscape and loved the technology sector. And this was right when technology was just starting to grow some.

00:11:24
And I have to tell you a funny story. When I worked for Netscape, we were battling Microsoft at the time. Wow.

00:11:41
to even have double digits market share, but to have it in such a large quantity. And I said, I’ll never work for Microsoft because at the end, Microsoft need cabinet Netscape. Right.

00:11:56
people change, companies change. And here I am today, I work for Microsoft. I know, I was going to laugh. Right here with Microsoft. But I share that with people because I said, you would have never caught me. And I had read books about how the internet was going to be changing things. And I still am a Netscape girl. I still have some Netscape swag that I keep near and dear to my heart. But that was my first job, was working for Netscape. And then I ventured into the startup space. And that was amazing to understand that landscape and how hectic but rewarding it was. You learn so much working with startups, right? I’ve been hired to work with startups as well. I’ve been working with two startups. They were actually kind of grown up already, but it still smelled like the startup vibe. And I loved it. I really loved it.

00:12:50
there’s something exciting about that.

00:12:53
You know, fast learning curve. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it gives you an opportunity just to sample a lot of different things. I mean, I had my role that I was in charge, but I was able to do a little bit of everything because we all had to do everything because we were real scrappy. We were just trying to figure out how we were going to make sure that we were going to be relevant. And the startup that I actually worked for was around for a while. And, and again, we had to deal with Microsoft and, and,

00:13:20
And I’m telling you, at the time, me and Microsoft, we were not friends. But it’s been nice to see that company evolve and change over time. And let’s be honest, I mean, Netscape, such a big name back then, right?

00:13:36
It was huge. Well, again, it had 74% market share when it came to the browsers. Wow. So you could not go online without knowing who Netscape was. That is so true.

00:13:46
And what happened next? What was…

00:13:49
part of the journey then before, you know, uh,

00:13:52
you know, moving over to Apple and Microsoft. Absolutely. So I enjoyed working with the startup space. I went and I did a little stint in entertainment.

00:14:03
So I worked for Disney. Lovely. That was amazing. And I actually relocated so I could live in California so I could work for them. I worked as part of their online internet team. And I share with folks that back in the day, we’re all familiar with the movie Lilo and Stitch. Yes. So I was able to be part of when Lilo & Stitch was being thought of as a TV show.

00:14:28
I was able to see some of the stills. Back then, Kim Possible was a thought in somebody’s ear. And so I was able to be part of understanding when that was coming to fruition. So it was wonderful to work in the entertainment space and understand how they pull things together and… from one type of media to another type of media to make sure that they attracted the right audiences, but they maintained their audience. So I loved working in the entertainment space.

00:14:56
And then I moved and I worked for Apple. Were you headhunted or did you look out for a job over there? Was it something on your list that you said, hey, I want to work for the big A? Yeah.

00:15:08
So that’s a great question. I actually had a friend who worked for Apple. And I was just curious because Apple was up and coming. And he was having such a great time working for Apple. He says, you should just check it out and see what happens. And back then, being able to find jobs was a little bit easier. It wasn’t 500 people applying for a position.

00:15:32
It was more, you know, maybe 20, 100 people. And so although you were still working really hard in the interview process to show up, there were better odds that somebody could actually see you, where today it feels almost impossible for people to get seen when they’re looking for a position.

00:15:49
But I, for the position, I was the most qualified and was selected and loved it. Absolutely loved it. And this was when the online store was starting to also take a presence. And so our general manager was building a small team that has grown into a large team. And at the time, one of the initiatives I worked on was cross-border billing.

00:16:13
And for us, cross-border billing, if I wanted to send you something and you were in Germany, I would package it up, send it to the mailbox. And then it would go through its customs and then you could pick it up. But I had to mail it to you. The online community at the time did not have the capacity to do it from their own online store. And that’s what we were creating. And so we actually enabled individuals to go on Apple Online and say, I want to send this to Diana in Germany. And I could actually send it to you from my seat instead of having to go to the post office and do all of that work.

00:16:53
And then you would receive it in Germany. And it was interesting because when we launched the project, we were actually watching sales happen. And our back was actually successful. So we enabled the ability for people to do some cross-border billing from whatever country they were in and send something to either their friends or clients or whatever. And so it was a fantastic initiative. Nice.

00:17:17
And then, again, another move. And is it by coincidence that you ended up in the tech business area, that you were and you are working with the big, major companies out there? Or would you say, hey, I was ambitious. After Apple, there needed to come a big name, of course, again. Or was it a coincidence? Yeah. I’ve always been very intentional about who I work for. And the reason behind that is growing up, being a young Black girl, I always anticipated that it was going to be hard for me for a lot of whatever was going on in my life, just by the fact that I was a young Black woman. And so I wanted to make sure that my pedigree, the companies I worked for were recognized. So if I was in a situation where it was extremely challenging, at least I could espouse, look, I worked for these companies and they saw something in me.

00:18:13
I am very qualified for the position. And so that’s always been something that was very, very important to me is who was I working for? And the name of that company was something that could help propel me into something else. And so after I worked for Apple and I’d been in the tech space for a while, I decided I want to take a little bit of a break. And so I worked for a healthcare organization for about seven years. And I just wanted to see what was it like working for Apple. organization what were the differences and there were definite differences um the the um this look and feel was different the pace was definitely different oh yeah i can imagine do we even talk about the nine to five here or i know i know i know it was in the tech space you can move so so rapidly fast yeah and you could move anywhere almost and you were going so quickly and

00:19:09
And in the health space, they were very, very meticulous about how they were moving. And where I worked, we were very mindful of customer health lives. And now it’s funny, right now working in the tech space again, and people are like, oh, I’ve got to be on all the time. And my question is,

00:19:31
is somebody’s life at risk. Let’s really think about that because I actually worked for an organization where if I did something wrong, if I did something wrong, And I wasn’t coding or engineering. But if I made wrong decisions, somebody’s life was at risk. And so it really taught me to think differently about my workspace and how I was prioritizing my time and how I was prioritizing the work that I was doing. And so when I was in the health space, we were very slow, but because we wanted to make sure that the errors were minuscule. I worked on a project where we were making a change in our data center. Mm-hmm. And we were taking everything offline. We were trying to put in dual paths to make sure that we had redundancy in the right place. And we started our work at eight o’clock at night. Wow. Start the changes because we wanted to minimally impact our physicians and the patients. And so… happened again the risk level was fairly low but there was still risk where in the tech space like we make changes we really make changes all day long even though i was gonna say there’s always a b testing right always and so that was a great experience for me to work in a in a field where it caused me to reprioritize how i was thinking about work and what was important and i love the fact actually uh if you’re allowed to comment on this um that you did this on purpose

00:20:55
You did it on purpose. You wanted to discover a different industry, moving into a different role and, yeah, seeing a different kind of, you know, pace. So how how did it, you know, shift your mindset in general before, you know, coming back to the tech industry? I think it made me so it made me value time in a different way.

00:21:21
It made me appreciate the time that I had with people that I wasn’t working with because there was such this focus on lives.

00:21:32
Every day I went into work and I was making choices and I had to think about how was I impacting somebody’s life or people’s life. And it wasn’t ROI driven, although there’s an ROI component to the work that I was doing.

00:21:49
But the focus was much more different. And when I went into work and with this project that I told you about where we were making a major shift to our data center, when that was done,

00:22:02
there was a different sense of accomplishment with that project versus the ones I’d done in the past. Now, the ones I did in the past, they were amazing projects. Like the one that I talked about was the cross-border billing, enabling people to do something that they weren’t able to do. That is a fantastic thing to put in place for individuals. And I love being able to complete that project and working with the team.

00:22:23
But the data center, again, there was an impact to life that was overwhelming. And so it was just different and it made my appreciation for the things that I was doing. There was a different level of sensitivity that I felt. And I also want to add what you said before, when you’re in such a recruiting process, what are the most important factors you see here? You know, I’m interested in this position because the manager I get to work with, because the company I get to work with and the values behind and the principles behind and the ways of working behind. Or the product, let’s be honest as well. I remember when I was working for the C-suite at Sony, I was interested in the product. And so entertainment business, although I was working in the consumer product area. But yeah, of course, I wanted to see, oh, yeah, Xbox, right?

00:23:18
Gaming and everything else. So, and the newest laptops back then, the VAIO computers and everything. So I was interested in the product as well. So this was also part of my, you know, approach towards this position. Would you agree on that?

00:23:34
Yeah, I think when I first entered the working field, the working space, I was just excited. So I wanted to work for a big company. And I don’t think I realized how much I wanted to make sure that it resonated with me as a person and the things that are important to me.

00:23:54
Early on, I wanted to make a buck. I wanted to make a change. I wanted to help, and it was very exciting. The older that I got, the more, like you said, it was important to me, who was I working for? Could we have conversations where even though we may not agree on certain points, I felt

00:24:11
ethically, morally, that we were aligned. I felt like what my company was doing was something that I could be proud of and that they represented my values. That has become more and more important for me the more I’m getting more experience, learning more in the employment space.

00:24:28
And not to say that it wasn’t important for me when I was growing up, but I don’t think I thought about it as much as I do now. And so as I have conversations with people where they’re looking for jobs or somebody wants to come and work for me, there needs to be this synergy. And it sounds a little cliche, but it’s very true. If you are not in sync with how that organization or that person is moving forward, there’s not going to be a lasting satisfaction with the job. And it’s going to come while I’m making a buck because I got to pay a bill instead of I believe in this value, these values, I believe in this mission and it’s helping me. And I think working in the health space really helped color that for me because at the end of the day, if we made a mistake, somebody’s life was on the line and I did not want to hurt somebody’s life and I didn’t have to kill them. I just didn’t want to make sure that I wasn’t hurting them.

00:25:22
I love that. That’s a wonderful explanation. Yeah.

00:25:26
And, you know, what was the moment where you felt like knowing your own worth? When did this happen? You know, during your journey, working for all these major companies, being very tech savvy, you know, showing up as a strong woman, showing up as a woman with goals and clear targets. So when was that moment where you knew, hey, I’m worth it and I’m going to show it how much I’m worth it? And I’m not talking about only money, but your profile, right?

00:25:57
Yeah. I think that’s a great question. And I’m going to answer it in this way. I’m always discovering my self-worth.

00:26:07
So I mentioned that I have my own business and my niece is my first employee. I think it’s being crystallized because I have her with me. I’ve always understood that I had worth.

00:26:19
because I was very intentional about the job that I wanted to work for. And that’s refined with, you know, responsibility, being a manager, being a leader, working with certain types of individuals who are fairly senior in the organization. But that helped to be more crystallized, having her as an employee because she watches me. And one of the things I had shared with her was growing up, I felt like I had one plan and it was,

00:26:47
You go to school, you get a degree, you work at nine to five. We talked about the nine to five and you retire and then you kind of enjoy life. And so grateful for all the people in my life, my family, my, my teachers who help instill this work ethic in me, but that’s what I always realize. And then I decided I wanted to do my own thing.

00:27:12
And I realized that, I have different options and opportunities. I started to get people who sponsored me. And I remember having a conversation with one of my sponsors. And I said, I didn’t realize I had a lot of options. And, you know, I’m an old lady, not an old lady, but I love my age. I love that I’m going to have more grays. I don’t color them.

00:27:34
But I said, you know, I’m entering that time of my life where I can start to look at slowing things down. And he looked at me and he says, you have so many options. And it struck me, you know,

00:27:48
I do have options and having her recognize, and I tell her often, you have so many options. You can work a nine to five. You can do your own thing. You can take a break and you can travel the world. You have a lot that is your story. And I think, so your question, the reason I love it is because I think I’ve always been developing this. It’s always been something I’ve always realized that I was, I had value and worth and,

00:28:14
And what that looked like was defined in the moment that I was in. And so right now, my value and my worth is being defined by the people who I am around, the people that I’m able to influence and impact. And that young lady who comes and works with me twice a week and we get to strategize on my business and she comes up with ideas and she solves problems that I can’t even solve.

00:28:41
and is in touch with a generation that I’m striving to get in touch with. So I really love that question. Was she already part of your book project?

00:28:50
She was not. So my book project, so this is an interesting story because I never, never in a million years thought I would write a book.

00:29:00
Never say never, right? I know, I know. I’ve had to write papers. I’ve had to write statuses. I’ve had to write in my job. I’ve had to ghostwrite for my executives. But I never thought I would write a book. And I had a sponsor who challenged me because he says, you know, I should write a book about being a chief of staff. I’ve been doing it for a long time. I’ve got some ideas. And he said, so why don’t you just do it? Right.

00:29:25
And I thought, why don’t I just do it? Let’s see. The process was difficult.

00:29:30
But I finished my first book. And I’m grateful for the positive responses that I’ve received from that book. And I’m a bit of a trilogy nerd. And so I plan on writing two more books. And I already know. Wow. I’ve created the framework for the second one. And so probably this summer, I’ll start to really put some work behind that. Wow, that’s amazing.

00:29:54
Any little teaser you might want to share with us or is it too early? I can share a teaser.

00:30:02
This next book is about outcomes and impacts for chief of staff. Very good. And the teaser is I do it in three acts.

00:30:12
I love it.

00:30:13
You know, to the folks that are listening and watching us, make sure you check out the show notes because obviously we’re We have linked the wonderful book that came out last year, the first wonderful book from Anne Marie. And we just heard there’s going to be more. So I can only tell you, wishing you all the best of luck. And isn’t it wonderful to have these incredible sponsors and mentors and sounding boards around us that keeps pushing us, that believe in us much sometimes faster when it comes to projects like this one, faster than we believe in such a project. And it’s wonderful that you have that circle. Yeah. Yeah. I feel very lucky and I keep getting more.

00:30:51
The more my network grows, the more I find somebody who is in my camp and they’re trying to help me just, you know, move myself along and see what I might not see for myself and help me attain the things that I may not be so accessible to being able to attain. Amazing.

00:31:08
So obviously you wrote a book about chief of staff. So tell us about your role working at Microsoft. So let’s dive in. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so it’s interesting, the chief of staff, this person. So as I entered the role of being a chief staff, I wasn’t sure exactly what was it. And like I said, my background is in program and project management.

00:31:32
And unbeknownst to me, I already had a lot of the skills that it took to be successful chief of staff, because really what you’re doing is you’re partnering with experts. as a chief of staff and executive and understanding what their vision, their strategy is, and then you help them implement it. That’s the simplest way of describing what a chief of staff does. Now, it is not a simple role at all. It is very, very complex because you are not only building relationships, you are cultivating and maintaining those relationships, sometimes at the request of your executive, understanding what are the things that need to happen so they have a good partnership and so that vision is executed against. And so being a chief of staff at Microsoft, I get to partner with these extremely smart individuals, this leadership body that I work with. Coincidentally, next week we’re having a leadership exercise with my current leadership team. And I partner with my HR person and we’re going through an exercise to talk about branding, to talk about change.

00:32:30
to talk about how do you coach through challenges topics that we’re all very very familiar with but they always need to refresh yeah you never get a point where you know everything you’ve always got to be constantly developing learning and and growing yourself and so the opportunity to develop with and provide a development opportunity where we’re all growing and learning um

00:32:56
is amazing. And so being a chief of staff at Microsoft, I’ve been able to support some very senior level executive and understand some of their pain points and how can I step in and alleviate some of that pain, making sure that I fill a gap that they may not be able to fill, but also just be a really good trusted partner. It’s amazing.

00:33:19
the, the relationship that a chief of staff has with their executive is very different than the relationship a manager has with an employee or connected. Um, I know the secrets and I don’t necessarily want to know the secrets. I know they can be quite a burden, right?

00:33:38
They are, they are, but I know the secrets and that person, they have a person they can talk to. Uh,

00:33:45
I had an executive and she would confide so much in me and, and it wasn’t girl talk. It was, we were talking about the business and there were things that we could not share with even her leadership body. And I was the only one that was privy to some of this information.

00:34:00
And we would whiteboard. And then if we needed to talk to HR about options or whatever was going on, that was the only other person that was in that circle. And so being a chief of staff in a tech space, again, you’re moving very, very fast. Things are happening so quickly. But you also have to be adept at understanding the landscape and being able to be in that landscape.

00:34:24
If you could give a different title to the chief of staff, what would be a title that you would enjoy? You mentioned the trusted partner before. Is there anything else that comes to your mind?

00:34:35
Oh, the chief of staff. So in terms of titles, they’re director of strategy, director of business management, director. Senior executive with the principal that they’re working on.

00:34:52
When I think about the types of roles that they fill, this is what you mentioned, like their liaison, their confidant, their proxy for that person. And those are some of the roles. The proxy, I love that one. Yeah.

00:35:11
That I would say is a chief of staff also. Yes.

00:35:15
And maybe we can also bring some clarity here because obviously a lot of, you know, highly strategic and senior level assistants are looking into, you know, upskilling into the role of a chief of staff. You have never been an EA in your career. So you came from a totally different direction. What are your thoughts on this new trend we see out there that, yeah, it’s for sure not a pathway for everyone, but anything you want to comment on this?

00:35:42
I have seen this so much.

00:35:46
When I’ve been asked this question, I always love to preface it with, anybody can do anything so long as they have access to resources, they have a network, and they have the opportunity to develop and train and grow into that. When I think about a lot of these very skilled executive assistants, And I think we need to look at what are the roles, what are the things being done in that vein? And if that person is operating in the capacity of a chief of staff, they should not be called an executive assistant. They should just be called the chief of staff. And make sure that the roles and the responsibilities align with the title.

00:36:26
Sometimes when I look online and I see the different job functions, there’s a muddying of the two. And I think we do a disservice to both of the roles because now we’ve confused them.

00:36:39
And we are confusing HR departments and managers as well, sadly to say. So there needs to be really a clear guidance here. And I know a lot of people talk about this topic. I can only tell you here from a German perspective. We have an official certification to become a chief of staff. This is in collaboration with a university. So you see the high level here. All the modules are approved by the university.

00:37:09
They are highly involved in the way the trainers are picked and the program is designed. So this is for sure something that is not only quite an investment to take, and it takes a little while, But I fully support how they do it. And because also to see the degree, you know, behind there that the university is involved and we are glad to have the certification in Germany as of this year, that also these people who are looking into this pathway think, is this really the right way for me or is it maybe not? a little bit into a different direction, right? Right. Right. No, I have an interesting story about that, and I really appreciate that you said that.

00:37:52
Being at Microsoft, a peer of mine and I recognized that we had a lot of people who kept asking us, how did you get into this space? How did you get into this space? And so we had created a course based on some of the things that we had known. And we had executive assistants, we had existing chief of staff, product managers, and we took them through a cohort with what we thought was relevant for them to understand what it took to be chief of staff.

00:38:20
I mentioned that I had my own business where I’ve created Chief of Staff Academy. I’m working with an agency that’s working to certify the materials that I’ve created. And the program is six months long. It has three modules. It goes through 15 lessons.

00:38:33
And we talk about core competencies. So agnostic of industry, there are things that every chief of staff needs to understand. An example would be workforce management. We all are going to deal with things that have to do with reduction of workforce, increase and scaling of workforce, changes, reorganizations.

00:38:51
How do you handle that? How do you ensure that you maintain a level of confidentiality? How do you make sure that you’ve created the right communication plan? And so I really appreciate that you brought that up because for me personally, I was like, there needs to be something that helps them understand what are some of the things that I just need to know if I’m

00:39:11
they’re an aspiring chief of staff, or I’m an existing chief of staff, and I really want to bulk up on my development. And that’s why I actually have the Chief of Staff Academy, because it takes you through some of the core competencies that I’ve been able to glean over years of experience and the partnerships that I’ve had.

00:39:29
So people can be successful if they step into this role, or if they’re in that role, and they want to just be better. I love that. And it sounds so well prepared, you know, these steps and the way you’re placing it. And this is exactly what the people want. And they want to hear from people that have been in this profession.

00:39:50
They know exactly what they’re talking about, although you would also agree that every chief of staff role is different because every executive is different. So the funny thing is what I found about your role as well is that you are 100% remote. So tell us a little bit how this happened and what kind of agreements and non-negotiables you have with your manager. to perform this role 100% remote.

00:40:14
Absolutely. Traditionally, I’ve always been a hybrid employee. Regardless of the organizations that I’ve worked for, I always had an aspect where I worked from home a few days a week and then I was in the office.

00:40:26
Obviously, post pandemic, that impacted a lot of businesses and they changed their approach and they opened up the opportunity for people to be remote.

00:40:36
But I’ve traditionally always been a remote employee. Especially with this role and working for organizations where we were spread across the globe, being able to interact with people who are not in the same space was normal. It was very, very typical. And so that wasn’t a hard stretch for me.

00:40:58
Talking to my managers, one of my negotiables that was on the table was I do want to be able to come into the office and have some very intentional meetups with people. So it wasn’t something where I, you know, I travel every month for a week or whatever. And for some folks that might work.

00:41:16
But I wanted to make sure that there was an opportunity for me to have some face time because a chief of staff, I love to say that we are the heart of the organization. We’re the folks that people feel comfortable talking to if they’re not comfortable talking to their executives for whatever reason. And so having that face time and being in a room with somebody was very important. And so I do have the opportunity to travel to our different offices and and spend time with our employees. Just last month, I spent a week in India. Oh, wow.

00:41:52
And fell in love with my peers in the India office. Absolutely adored them. Did you go to Mumbai or which part of India? I was in Hyderabad, Noida, and Bangalore. Nice. Wow. What a trip. And I can only imagine how amazing the food was, right? Oh, my gosh. The food was fantastic. But it was the people and it was experiencing a different culture in a different way, which was fascinating. And I felt very privileged to be able to experience it first person. Yeah.

00:42:32
Again, with my peers in the beautiful country of India. And so that’s one of the things that’s very important to me is not extensive travel, but some travel to be able to cultivate those relationships with individuals in real time. Yeah. Have you been to the Munich office for Microsoft? Yeah.

00:42:53
Not yet, not yet. Please put it on your list. I will. The executive assistant to the German CEO of Microsoft, which is a woman, you know, it’s always, Satya always has good choices in placing the right managing directors. Switzerland had a female leader for a long time, Germany. So my friend works for the Microsoft CEO there. So you need to come because it’s a beautiful office.

00:43:21
So get, get, get this trip booked. I will be around then too, because Microsoft is my customer actually. I would absolutely love it. Thank you for telling me that. Yeah. And so I think, I think that’s been the biggest thing for me is just helping folks understand the integration of some FaceTime is important. Not all the time, but some FaceTime is definitely important. Absolutely. I love that.

00:43:48
And yeah, I mean, Coming to the end of our wonderful interview, thank you so much for everything you’ve shared. I can not only wish you the best for the future projects you’ve been sharing with us, another book, the adoption, your business. So there’s a lot on your agenda for 2025. So how do you enter into a new year? Are you one of these people who creates a vision board, a mind map, manifestation? Do you have everything in your brain? You don’t need to write anything down? Or how do you enter in a new year? What other things are on the agenda for 2025?

00:44:26
So I do have a vision board. I created it a while ago. It hasn’t changed because I was and I continue to dream really, really big.

00:44:36
And so that stays in the forefront of my mind. I’m not a New Year’s resolution person, but I am a very goal-driven person. And I have a folder and I have my goals and I start to think about them. And my goals are actually right here. I’ve got a wall right next to me and I’ve got it posted there. And as I make progress, I write on that piece of paper. I’ve got paper all over my desk.

00:45:00
Wait, wait a moment. Working for Microsoft, talking about paper is… You want to tell me you’re still a paper pen girl? I’m part of the club.

00:45:09
I am. I’ve got papers. If I don’t have a notebook. I’m part of the club.

00:45:14
I understand you. Rooting for you.

00:45:18
It’s still so relevant. It’s always going to stay relevant. I know. We love OneNote, right? We love Microsoft To Do. We love the planner. But hey. you know, paper and pen is still allowed. Yes. Yes. Yes. It’s, it’s the, it’s the original and I love sticking with the original, but I do, I have my goals.

00:45:35
And like I had mentioned, one of my, my bigger goals is to start with this book. My, my second one, my other goal was to complete the certification for the chief of staff Academy. I’ve been in self launch mode. And so I’ve had to go through it to get some feedback, make some refinements and,

00:45:53
Enjoying that process as difficult as it is. And continue working with my niece as my employee. So I have four nieces.

00:46:05
The one who works for me is the second oldest. The third one, who’s going to be 14, asked me the other day, so can I come work for you? And so my goal moving into the future is to create a business that’s so sustainable that my whole family can come work for me. Yeah, start a family business. I love that. My husband works 100% of my company. So how about that, right? I love that.

00:46:31
I love that. I know. I mean, he had his career. He’s 10 years older. And so he was a VP and, you know, originally an engineer, but always working out there. And since we started our digital nomad life three years ago, it was just time for him to, yeah, leave the corporate world. And since he’s the biggest fan and supporter, he is my chief of staff. And my CFO in one role.

00:46:59
So I couldn’t be happier having him be part of my team. And it’s growing.

00:47:05
That’s awesome.

00:47:07
It’s a wonderful feeling that you work with people and you have them around you. And throughout the eight years that I’ve been running my business, I was just… always happy to have the right experts around me. The guy who’s, you know, preparing a podcast, who’s cutting all of this. I’m not doing this myself. I knew when I started a podcast five years ago, I needed to have the right expert. So shout out to Sebastian in Bali, who’s doing all of that. And a German, a fellow German who’s living in Bali. So he’s the one, you know, who’s been by my side from day one when we launched a podcast. And I love to have the right experts around. in my circle because I can support, I can support other, you know, entrepreneurs and their businesses. And that’s how it all runs, right? Support each other.

00:47:54
That’s wonderful. Well, I echo and agree with all of that.

00:48:00
I love that it’s my family that’s around me. I was in a conference last week and my husband was with me and we were talking to different potential clients and he is darling. He understands what I do and he’ll say, well, I don’t quite get it. He gets it. And so both of us are talking to clients and there’s this whole sense of pride where I’m watching him

00:48:25
just do his thing on my behalf. And it just, you know, it touched my heart. That’s so wonderful. And you know, what’s interesting when you talked about new year’s resolution, I know everyone is going differently into the new year. Some people have a word, some people have a motto.

00:48:43
Some people, you know, create their vision boards and do the manifestation. I love to see this, how it works for people. But I also believe more into a motto and,

00:48:53
And my motto is actually, you know, celebrating my enoughness. I’m a big fan of, you know, saluting myself, you know, being an entrepreneur for eight years, running a podcast for five years, being very active on LinkedIn, constantly supporting the industry. And yes, I’m proud of everything that I have become. So enoughness is really part of my 2025. And my coach keeps reminding me on this, you know, celebrate your successes and You know, slow down a bit and just enjoy the time. That’s why I’m on a two-month winter break. I’ve never done this before. But I learned to slow down, and it’s just incredible. I can only recommend it because, you know, once you become an entrepreneur, it’s all about speed and activity and presence.

00:49:43
And after eight years, I say, hey, let’s slow down. You’ve done a lot. You’ve achieved a lot, so celebrate yourself. clap yourself on the shoulder and even if you’re you know that’s me being a very busy person always having creative ideas just you know allowing yourself to relax you know and um because this on the other hand can be also quite productive sure sure awesome that’s amazing i love that i love that celebrate my yes so please keep us updated on the book plans and the business plans

00:50:17
And you just need to come back again, you know, tell us what happened. I would love it. This was a delight. I love talking to brilliant people. I love talking to brilliant women. This was an absolute delight. Thank you for having me on your show, for letting me talk a little bit about me, my business.

00:50:36
and the things that go on behind the business scene. I love talking about my family. I feel very lucky that I’m close to my family and a lot of them around. Not everybody has that privilege to be around their family. And so I feel like I’m a very lucky and blessed individual for that. So thank you. This was wonderful. My pleasure. And please say hello to all the dogs and cats and husbands and nieces.

00:51:05
I hope they get to hear this episode as well. So if not, please say hello to everyone.

00:51:11
And thank you so much for being here and coming over to share your story. What a privilege.

00:51:16
This was so much fun talking to Anne Marie. Hopefully we get to meet in person one day. I’m heading over to New York, but I won’t make it to her part of the country. So hopefully it’s going to work out at another time. But in the meantime, connect with her, get her book and get inspired.

00:51:35
That was Executive Office Insights, the podcast for everyone shaping the future of the modern office. I hope you found valuable insights and inspiration for your own journey.

00:51:45
If you enjoyed this episode, I would truly appreciate a five star rating on your favorite podcast platform. Not only does it support me, but it also helps others discover the podcast and benefit from these exciting conversations.

00:51:59
Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode and feel free to share it with anyone interested in executive support, leadership, and modern office management. Thank you for tuning in and see you in the next episode of Executive Office Insights.

00:52:22
You’re listening to the Leader Assistant Podcast. Please review on Apple Podcasts.

Ep 374: A Powerful Partnership – Diana Brandl Chats with President Matthew Chapman and his EBP Agnes Spohn

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 03 May 2026 15:25:16 +0000

In this spotlight episode of the Executive Office Insights podcast, join Diana Brandl for an inspiring conversation with Matthew Chapman (President of Sales and Marketing) and his Executive Business Partner, Agnes Spohn, from Freudenberg Group. Despite being based in the US and Germany, this power duo reveals the dynamics of their thriving, trust-based, remote partnership, including how they leverage time zones for efficiency and rely on open communication.

Learn about the evolving role of the assistant into a strategic business partner. Agnes, who Matthew calls a “networking superhero,” shares her passion project: founding and expanding Freudenberg’s internal assistant community to increase visibility and professional development. Discover the essential tools – from Microsoft Teams and Microsoft To Do to Year Compass – that keep this cross-continental collaboration running smoothly.

CONNECT WITH AGNES AND MATTHEW

ABOUT AGNES and MATTHEW

Matthew Chapman: President of Sales & Marketing, Automotive Sales

Matthew is a dynamic and trusted global sales and marketing executive with extensive experience in strategic planning, sales process development, global intercultural leadership, and sales execution. Confident, self-motivated, bi-lingual leader who is able to recognize cultural differences and resolve problems across cultures. Matthew is proficient at managing multiple complex projects and focused on building strong customer relationships to profitably grow both the top and bottom lines.

Agnes Spohn: EA to Matthew Chapman and Founder of FST Assistant Community

Agnes was born in Berlin where she also lived until 2013. Her background is hotel management and during that time she learned being a multitasking person and enjoyed working with different nationalities & humans. After many years in the hotel operations day to day business, she moved on to a Sales position in charge of the DACH region corporates and the entertainment industry.

By planning her sales calls, she discovered the world of being a frequent traveler which helps her today planning business trips for her manager. Her network to the hotel industry is still huge and that helps a lot by planning meetings and negotiating contracts. Agnes moved to the South of Germany in 2013 working in Frankfurt in the financial industry. During that time, she was mainly in charge of planning investor meetings and roadshows as well as huge investor conferences in Frankfurt and Paris. After her parental leave she started with Freudenberg in 2018. Today, she combines a lot of her skills learned in the past to the daily business of being an Executive Assistant.

Agnes loves working with an international global based team and so it is no surprise that her manager is located in the US but she is located close to Heidelberg.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00
Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant Podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.

00:00:29
The Leader Assistant podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

00:00:42
Check out the show notes to this episode on leaderassistant.com/374. Well, as you all know, I’m always looking out for these very powerful partnerships when it comes to the work of an assistant together with her executive.

00:00:58
And in this case, I was lucky enough to have a wonderful chat with Agnes and Matthew, both working for Freudenberg Sealing Technologies. Matthew is the president of sales and marketing for the automotive area, and Agnes is his EA.

00:01:17
She’s based in Germany, he’s based in the US, and how they work together, how important it is to have a partnership of trust, but also having an understanding of new work and finding always good ways of innovative working and growing together. This has been the majority of the talk that we had, and it was very interesting.

00:01:41
fascinating to see them work together in such a wonderful way because as they don’t see each other every single day it is still working just fine and I know you’re going to love this episode because especially these episodes are always very high in demand because we love to hear the best practices from executives and their assistants. So welcome Matthew and Agnes.

00:02:08
I specifically love when I have two guests in actually part of my episode here. And that’s the case here tonight, especially since there’s a power duo waiting for me here. We have Agnes and Matt over. Good to have you here with us. Hi. Hi, Dana. Thank you for having us. Hi. Great to be here. It’s a pleasure of hosting you. Where are you actually currently joining us from? Why don’t we start with you, Agnes?

00:02:35
I am dialing in from the area of Weinheim near Mannheim. That’s close to Heidelberg as well. That’s probably the area you might know better. Yeah. So I’m located in Weinheim. Nice area. What about you, Matt? Different time zone, right? Different time zone. Yeah. I’m calling in from the US. I currently live in Michigan and I’m at our headquarters just outside of Metro Detroit. Perfect. It’s been ages since I’ve been to Detroit. I remember years ago, I was a frequent flyer on Northwest Airlines. They were actually stationed there, right, in Detroit. And so I’ve always been on NWA for quite a while. But they’re, I think, now part of Delta, right? That’s right. We still have a hub right in Detroit. So it actually makes it very, very nice to be able to travel out of Detroit. We have direct flights, or at least we had direct flights pretty much anywhere we wanted to go. And, you know, with the pandemic, it’s a bit tougher nowadays. It is true indeed. So, Agnes, why don’t you describe your executive Matt to us?

00:03:33
It would be interesting to find out how you describe him.

00:03:38
So I think I start like with the basics, things like, yeah, I mean, Matt is married.

00:03:44
He’s a father of three. He is an American born in the US. He lives in the US as well, although he already lives two times in Germany, both times three years in a row. So I think like after that experience, I would say he’s kind of a bit of German as well in his mind.

00:04:07
We’ve got to find this out in a minute.

00:04:10
Exactly.

00:04:11
So besides that, I mean, as a fun fact, probably he loves doing PowerPoint slides, right? This is like his passion, but… um i mean he is um he’s a full engineer and technology guy so this is why he’s there in the position he is today so but if it would not be the position he’s holding at the moment i think he would run like a powerpoint company or so running slides every day right so things like that so yeah so besides that um

00:04:43
I mean, Matt is a person he fully trusts on you and your work. And this is what makes it really nice to work with him. And he’s also, he challenged us a lot as well. But, you know, he’s always asking the right questions straight to the point, I must say. He’s a good listener.

00:05:06
He appreciates a lot what we are doing and the team is doing. That’s also, and he got the attention to detail. So things like, I mean, that Matt, you sent me flowers for the administrative professionals day. These are things I really, I mean, I really appreciate a lot. So, yeah. And then like coming to more the private area, I would say we became really close, good friends after a couple of years working together. We share the same humor. We also share the passion about food and wine. So, yeah. Lots of great information already coming from you, Agnes. And I, wow, it’s incredible to hear how you describe your executive from a professional and a private perspective. So I have a lot of questions already. I hear PowerPoint here, Matt.

00:06:00
Absolutely. A lot of people actually moving over to Sway. Have you tried it out? Microsoft Sway? Yeah. I have tried Sway.

00:06:07
We work in a very technical business. And while the time that I use Sway, I see for the graphics and the way that it presents information is really nice. But still within our company, PowerPoint is absolutely the base tool that we have. And yeah, I’ve gotten to a point where I really know how to use it. I really enjoy using it. And Yeah, I love it too. That’s the key point. Absolutely. I love it too. But I keep hearing people that are actually ready to move over to Sway or Prezi or try to find out a few new options how to present their content. Another question before you’re going to introduce Agnes to us.

00:06:45
German, German culture. We’ve heard about food lover. Would you say that the German cuisine is something that attracted you or would you say, oh, no, I’d rather go for the Italian side? I mean, it certainly depends.

00:06:58
We were actually I was just in Germany and we had carava in Weinheim and the meat sandwich or a brat with a bun. I mean, this is this is really outstanding.

00:07:09
Certainly, I think we understand that, you know, German cuisine is maybe not the top cuisine in the world, whether French or Italian. It’s certainly something that they really have in those countries. But I think it is a really fascinating. It’s a very comfortable place to go and eat and find food. And certainly, I mean, with the beer and more and more of the wine, it is more and more becoming a food place. Absolutely. And since actually we just opened up Oktoberfest in Munich, I don’t know if you’ve heard it.

00:07:37
Since two years, finally, they opened the gate and everyone is just so happy to be out there again and for sure enjoying food and drinking a good beer and everything. So, yeah, Munich is crazy at the moment, I would say. I can imagine.

00:07:52
So what would you say about Agnes, Matt? How would you describe her?

00:07:57
Yeah, it was great to hear how Agnes described me. And I think maybe I went in a little bit of a different direction as I kind of wrote down what I kind of thought with Agnes. And I wrote down the number one thing is she’s a networking superhero. I know I hear it on your podcast and I agree.

00:08:16
I use the same thing in my own description of people, you know, this superpower, what is her superpower? And it really is not working. And she connects with people like really just by default. And I think maybe you even have that same experience having, having met her personally. Right. And ultimately, what I see is that it really comes from this place of really, truly caring about people.

00:08:39
And I think even just in the way that she described me, she’s able to pick out those different bits and pieces. And maybe that’s where I, as an engineer, am not so good at those things. Yeah.

00:08:52
One of the other things that I wrote down, and I think it’s funny because it’s maybe the two different sides of this coin is we always talk about she loves the status quo. And I wrote down, oh, gosh, oh, gosh, oh, gosh. And she says this all the time. Yeah. But she’s amazing at accepting and adapting to change. She really is. And she’s really open to try new things. It’s maybe the anticipation of the new things that she doesn’t love so much. But once you really get into it, she’s really leading and driving so many of the things. And I think we’ll talk about the future assistant or the network that she’s created where this has really changed within our organization and she’s driving it. Indeed.

00:09:31
And it needs courage also, Agnes, to do these projects. And as Matt said, we’re going to hear more about this later on because, of course, we’re curious to find out where you’re currently standing with the network, right? And maybe two more points. One is she is really a great teammate.

00:09:48
And when I think about our work together, on the one side, she’s my taskmaster and making sure that every single day, the things that need to be done and the tasks that we’ve worked together to make sure that are on our list, she’s making sure that I’m getting those done. But on the other side, I always say she’s my human side. I think maybe one of the funny stories when her and I started working together was… like her number one job is to make me human.

00:10:13
And because so much of what we do and work and being in this technical field that we’re in, you know, is really around the technical things and the processes and whatnot. And as an engineer, I have a tendency to move more and more towards those sides and her, you know, caring about people. It really has worked that the two of us, you know, we make even better as teammates when she’s able to help me do those things. And yeah, it’s really good. So a true people manager, right? Yeah, exactly. Yes. And I definitely agree to that, how I met her and how I see her passion for this profession. For sure. For sure.

00:10:49
Absolutely. So coming back to you, Agnes, of course, we want to hear a little bit about your professional background. So how is that story and why actually did you become an assistant?

00:11:01
Yeah, let’s start probably from the beginning. I was born and grown up in Berlin, and it was during the Berlin Wall even.

00:11:10
So when I was out of school, I thought I had really the feeling that I need to go working, go out, meet people, not studying something. So I started an apprenticeship in a hotel industry. So I was really very classical working in a hotel at a reception.

00:11:30
So in that time, I must really say, I learned so much. I mean, you really, this is the best foundation you can have, like, which comes like you learn so many skills you need for the assistance professional, a profession, let’s say. And during the reception time, you have to challenge things. You have to deal with many things. You have to really multitask all the time. You meet so many different nationalities. They all have their different needs. You have to interact super quick. So this is like, you know, things like…

00:12:07
I really enjoyed to learn. And then I moved over to a sales position, but still keeping my passion in the hotel industry. So I traveled a lot. I was working seven years in outside sales.

00:12:22
So within that time, I was like organizing fairs. I was organizing bigger meetings, but also learned like what is important on a business trip? What’s the international airports are? What’s this point of being a frequent flyer, right? Things like basic stuff, but what’s the easiest way to go there and there? But also building up a network, which helps me today so much. Like I know all over the world, like so many hotels and people. So this is like, it’s really a great asset. It helps you totally in your room right now, right? Sending Matt all over the place for business meetings, right?

00:13:02
So that helps me a lot today. And then I felt like I needed a change that always or sometimes it happens like after the seven years, right? I don’t know if you also realize that in your private life, but that seven years period is something that is like a constant thing in my life.

00:13:24
And then I moved actually down to the south of Germany because of private reasons, because of my partner.

00:13:32
And then I was actually working in the financial industry. And I started working with investors on investor relations topics. I was doing roadshows with bigger companies. I was doing investor conferences and stuff like that. And then I got the pleasure to get a daughter. Actually, I went on parental leave and she’s turning six in about three weeks.

00:13:59
And then I was on parental leave afterwards. I decided not to go back to Frankfurt because it’s like quite a quite a ride every day.

00:14:09
And I was searching for a job closer to my home. And then I came to the Freudenberg world.

00:14:16
And there I was really lucky to get that position. I was reading through it. I thought, okay, this is sales. It is still sales. I want to be in sales. I’m a salesperson, right? And so I was like, yeah, hiring or I was getting this job actually. And I was really lucky. That was back in 2018, right?

00:14:36
Yeah, and I mean, why did I want to be an assistant? I mean, I love being an assistant, right? This is always what I say, Matt, when he is asking me, like, can you think about something different? I keep on saying, no, I am perfect where I am. I want to be in that role. And this is like a perfect combination from my background. I can, you know, serve people. people is it like a guest or a team it doesn’t matter i can help people i can like create a foundation of admin stuff which helps like everyone on their daily tasks so they can fully concentrate and focus uh what they really want to do and run business at the moment right or at the end um so

00:15:21
And then together with all the skills I learned in the past, it is like the perfect combination for me. I must really say. It’s so funny that you say that, actually, because yesterday in Vienna, my training, there was an assistant working for the sales director. And the sales director came to her in the one-on-one feedback meeting they had. And he said, aren’t you ready for the next role? And I’m happy to give you a role in my sales department. And she said, no. No, I am full of passion for this assistant role. And of course, it was a wonderful statement from him because he actually saw that role in her and he offered that role. And she said, no, I’m happy what I do. Happy to support you and the team. Happy to dive into the sales topics, obviously, and to become a strategic business partner. But I stay in this role because it’s so full of variety. Yeah. So, and here there’s also coming from you that you are so passionate about the role that you are creating the internal assistant network and of course supporting Matt in his various projects, right?

00:16:26
Yeah. Sometimes I just really say it is crazy what we deal with every day. I mean, we have so many different topics on our desk, but it’s also like, it starts with, I don’t know, even, you know, being kind of an HR role during the crisis when the crisis started, right? I was handling like short work topics, right?

00:16:44
And then, but also like then back to, yeah, manager support, but also like business trips. I have sometimes so many different things on my desk. It is a challenge, but it is what it fulfills me, right? This is what I love. Wearing all these various hats. Absolutely. So thank you so much for giving this little insight about you. So jumping back to Matt. So why don’t you share a little bit about your professional background? background with us and what actually was important towards your development, your career. You’ve been out there for a long time serving various companies, now being with Freudenberg. So excited to hear more about you. Yeah, it’s funny. I just looked, I’m 19 years now with Freudenberg and very often I feel like the young guy in the room.

00:17:37
You know, when I look at the leadership team that we have, the reports to me, and the majority of them are 20, 25, you know, or more years.

00:17:45
And it’s just, it’s the power of Freudenberg. And it’s a really, really great place to work. So coming back to me and my path, you know, we’ve talked about a little bit. I’m an engineer, mechanical engineer by education. I’ve really worked in sales now for 20, 25 years. I had one company that I worked with before I came to Freudenberg, just out of school.

00:18:04
And I’ve always really been in this sales communication area. And I, and I really, really have a passion for it.

00:18:12
And when you talk about my own personal development, when I took my first expat assignment, so it was 2011, you know, expat assignments for, for anyone who has a family, it’s not a, it’s not a career move. It’s a life move. And yeah, And so, you know, my wife and I and my two kids at the time, you know, we discussed it a lot. Is this something that we want to do? And ultimately, we took the challenge and said, yeah, let’s move to Germany. At the time, I had really an amazing boss. I was in an individual contributor role, not in a leadership role. And yeah.

00:18:46
The boss came and said, look, you’re here in Germany. Obviously, you have to do your job, but your number one assignment is learn the language. The number two assignment is learn the culture.

00:18:55
Find a way over the three years that you’re here to really integrate. And he gave me the time and the space to be able to do that and to put the energy in to be able to learn a new culture, certainly learn a new language, which for an American is not often something that we do.

00:19:10
was really life changing. And we got to the end of the three years and really started to have debates within the family of, do we want to go home?

00:19:18
And ultimately, the career, it was the right next step for me to come back to the US. And we were in the US for, I think, four years after that. And it was always weird because

00:19:31
we found ourselves no matter where we were, not really, I don’t want to say not being happy, but always missing the other place. So when we were in Germany, we missed America. When we were in America, we always missed Germany. Um, and when the opportunity came back to, um, to move back to Germany in preparation for the role that I’m in now.

00:19:50
Again, we talked about as a family and we said, let’s do it. This was in 2018. It was in preparation for the current role that I’m in. And we talked about it and we said, let’s take the challenge. But definitely it was different the second time around for two big reasons. One, the kids were older and they had a lot more things that they were involved in. And this

00:20:10
like expat vacationy aspect was kind of gone and it was just kind of real life. Um, but then certainly the other aspect was, was COVID hit. Um, and so when we were in 2020 and, you know, I think had COVID not hit, we’d still be there.

00:20:26
But it was really, we ended up having to make a decision as a family and we saw that we weren’t going to be in Germany forever. And so, you know, having gone through that entire thing, we said family was really important to us. So we came back and I mean, we’re very, very close to where the rest of our family is. So it was the right change to come back, but yeah. Really, now we’re stuck in this.

00:20:46
And I always say we feel like we have two homelands. After six years in Germany, we’re as comfortable there as we are here in the United States. And there’s always things that are going to frustrate us about both places. But it really changed the course of my career. And then it also changed the course of my family and the way that we interact as an overall family. So to me, that’s probably the most developmental thing that’s kind of put me where I am today.

00:21:13
And then the, maybe the, the last part is, you know, as I started to progress within my, um, sales organization that I’m a part of and taking on that role of leader in the organization. And, and especially when I came into this role and again, started working with Agnes in 2019, um, you know, leading such a large team, or, I mean, we’re a billion plus Euro sales organization and, um,

00:21:36
I’d had a vision because I’ve been in this team for 15, 20 years, and I had a vision of what I wanted to do and then to be able to put that into place and to be able to watch the team change and the team develop and really watch the organization start to mold after that vision that I have. And it gives me every single day more and more confidence that we’re doing the right things, that we’re moving in the right direction. And it’s really rewarding.

00:22:02
you know we talked about the appreciator agnes talked about the appreciation and it really is i’m really appreciative of the team that we have and the way that people have accepted this this overall vision that we have so to me those are kind of the three bullet points very interesting and i love how you also include your family of course because it is a family decision going uh you know abroad and especially when the kids are involved So looking back at the first steps of learning a new language for you, your wife, the kids, how tough was it? I mean, German is for sure not the easiest language, right? Yeah, it was one of the hardest things that I’ve ever done.

00:22:41
We had an amazing teacher. We had a…

00:22:45
uh an individual that was that was contracted with our company and she took care of i would say all of the expats and there’s this large global company we do have quite a few expats coming into the headquarters there in weinheim and uh you know the first she spoke no english to us ever really and it was you know the first day was hello

00:23:03
You know, and then it just started from there. There was no book. There was no, you know, there was only the red thread of if I talk and you talk in the end, it will work.

00:23:15
So we did that for, you know, we were there for three years. And I think we had classes for two years and nine months.

00:23:22
And it was both my wife and I separately doing that.

00:23:25
And it was great, really. I mean, it got us to the point where we could really feel like we were integrated. And I saw it with so many of the people that I knew.

00:23:34
When you don’t learn the language, you can’t integrate. No, I agree. And those people at the end of their two years or three years are like, I need to get home as fast as I can. And we were really, you know, in a much different situation. Absolutely. So let’s be honest, Matt, who’s the better speaker, you or your wife? Yeah. uh i have to i mean it’s not fair you know i i was i was in the office especially in the first that first time i was in the office eight eight hours a day and and hearing german you know that entire time um so i certainly in the business sense i have a really strong german language it is funny we talk about my wife my daughter my oldest daughter who is also fluent in in german and myself like together we’re like one german

00:24:19
I love this picture. That’s amazing. So you’re based in Michigan. Agnes is in Weinheim, a full, of course, remote partnership here. When was actually the last time you saw Agnes?

00:24:32
Yeah. So as I mentioned, I was in I was in Weinheim for two weeks in August. So it was a week of vacation with my wife and I. And then we had a week of board meetings and various things that we had to do. And I try, I would say, every four to six weeks right now to be in Germany. We have a really, really large team in our Weinheim office there.

00:24:56
I also know that as travel increases kind of outside of Europe and that it’ll be, I think, less and less that I’m there and more and more that I’m in places around the world. Absolutely. So, Agnes, would you say that the partnership, the remote partnership actually works? And how do you make it work from your side? Yeah.

00:25:16
It definitely does. I can fully agree on that. I mean, I think having like the background that we both work next to each other for almost two years does really help because we know each exactly like how we interact and how probably also our day is structured let’s say um so matt is like also one of the persons who when when he wakes up he flips through his emails and then he’s like you know leaving his laptop probably for a while and then he comes back so these are things i i realized so that helps him probably to flag the most important things to do then he can put probably think about it already or not or whatever, but it helps him on that. So, I mean, we have the opportunity to work next to each other and that helps us today.

00:26:05
Then we obviously had the COVID situation, right? The first lockdown, although we were located in the same location, we couldn’t sit next to each other. So we were already like practicing this remote thing and So using Teams, that was like a challenging time, I must say. I mean, Matt was like, let’s say, 10 hours in a row in calls, right? So it was super tough for me to get hold of him and to kind of reach him. And we were rolling out Teams at that time as well. So Teams was not that common before within the company. So it was like a very challenging but super important time to have this, like, base of our work today. And then obviously, like when he told me like he’s moving back to the US, I was prepared for that.

00:26:57
But then I told him like, Matt, yeah, I mean, for sure. But hold on, I will stay in my working hours, right? I have a daughter.

00:27:05
I want to spend my afternoon with my daughter. I start at 7 a.m. in the morning. And this is what I do when you’re in the U.S. I will, you know, for sure when there are bigger meetings or so, I can always have someone taking care of her. But then I’m flexible. But I want to stay in that working hours. And this is what he agreed on. And then we, yeah, we managed. Fabulous. So what we…

00:27:29
So thank you for that as well. Was there ever a second where you felt like, hmm, is she not flexible anymore? Do I need more flexibility here? Or did you say, no, I fully, fully understand your point here because I have family too and I support that. I mean, I certainly come from that perspective. I have a family and as much as I travel and as much as I’m away, I certainly value the travel time. And I tell all the people, I mean, we work certainly, but you have to take care of your family. And so there was never really a question of saying, okay, can you shift your hours to 2 p.m. to 8 p.m.? That was never really for me an option. If she had volunteered, I probably wouldn’t have said no, but I certainly didn’t expect that. Yeah.

00:28:13
What else is important for you for this virtual collaboration, Matt? Is there anything on your non-negotiable list where you say, this is important for us, we have regular check-ins, we try to see each other face-to-face in a certain amount of time, or is there anything you put on the list where you say that’s important? I think the key item is trust. And we started working together in 2019 and through 2021. And I think we developed certainly a level of trust between each other and certainly understanding how each other worked. And we were able to carry that into this remote style of working.

00:28:50
And for me, when I think about the things that we’re doing, certainly a lot of frequent open communication, we talk very openly with each other about what’s working, what’s not working.

00:29:00
I think whether it’s virtual or not virtual, that’s really important. And then we’re really flexible and really open-minded to try all sorts of different things. And being able to communicate with each other what our expectations are for those. And as an example, I…

00:29:16
I think Agnes understands I text her not by phone, but you know, in teams, I text her a lot at night. So it’s the end of my day and I’m basically offloading the items that I have on my desk. And when she gets in the office, you know, it’s 2am my time and she’s able to take all of those things and progress them. And I actually find that in a lot of ways, some of this stuff becomes really efficient because it’s the end of my day. And I already know that a lot of these items will be done when I start my day, you know, the next day. Yeah, absolutely. It does have definitely advantages, the time zones, right? So speaking of tools, Matt, is there any specific tool where you say that’s my game changer tool that Agnes and I use all the time? You just mentioned Microsoft Teams that has been established. Anything else you say that’s very helpful for us? Yeah, I mean, certainly it’s redundant to say email and Microsoft Teams. Teams really becomes the core, I think, of how the two of us work together.

00:30:14
If you ask me about the things that I use, I have two things that I try to use very regularly. One is Habit Tracker, which is an app, and I think we’ll put it in the show notes for you. Yes, absolutely. I would say it’s not anything special. It just happens to mirror the way that I think. And I think there’s lots of different habit tracker apps that are out there. Another one is Headspace. So trying to do a lot of mindfulness stuff.

00:30:37
And I find that that really helps set me into a place where I’m able to then manage these large groups of people and Certainly manage the emotions and all the things that are coming. And it really helps me a lot. I have one super analog tool that I use. And I know that wasn’t maybe your question, but it’s called Year Compass. It’s something that I would say has been really a game changer for me over the past six or seven years. And it’s a tool that is released every December. It’s free on the Internet. We’ll send you a link to it. And it’s a structured process for setting goals. Certainly, it doesn’t have to be done every single year. But I think a lot of people have the rhythm of saying, you know, at the beginning of New Year, I’m going to set my goals for the year. And I’ve been able to do this. And I now go back, you know, I can go back to 2017, 18. And I have all those goals.

00:31:26
that I’ve created. And then I track them, you know, and I work through them every day. And whether they’re personal goals or professional goals, I really find that it’s something that that I reference, you know, whether it’s daily, or certainly weekly going back and saying, what are the high level things that I want to get done, whether it’s personal or professional, and then really pushing and making sure that I don’t get stuck in the details of things that are maybe dealing with the urgent and not really the important. And as Agnes knows, those goals get laminated because when you create something awesome, you laminate it. That’s just what we do. That is so true. But great tools here. I mean, I’m always super interested in new tools. So it’s a great resource you’re sharing with us. And we’re definitely going to put this in the show notes. So thank you so much. So, Agnes, what about you? Would you add anything? What is on your tool side and what helps you to manage that?

00:32:24
I mean, I definitely need Microsoft to do. Without that tool, I couldn’t survive anymore because that is like it’s always called as my second brain, I would say.

00:32:35
Because I even have it on my mobile device. It is like whenever something comes to my mind, I put it in there. So because then I know, yeah, I get an automatic reminder the next day and I don’t get, you know, or I don’t forget about it or so. And I really love to tick boxes, tick off boxes, right? Yes. I just love that. Me too. Yeah.

00:32:57
This is why I love that tool actually a lot. Then for sure, Microsoft Teams and SharePoint, that’s the communication tool, right? Without that, I couldn’t function. I don’t know. I mean, this is like the best tool ever. I see out of the crisis, which we got released, like because of the crisis probably as well. And then what I use a lot as well is OneNote. That’s more a tool I use, like having like my conversation list with Matt. It’s like a super simple list where I like, you know, bullet point, the most important topics. And then I read down things we have to speak about. And that’s like, yeah, a communication base, let’s say. But also it’s my tool where I store all my files, ideas,

00:33:47
links articles podcasts stuff like that i want to go through and i want to work on uh whenever i have like some spare time and so on so very good i’m a big fan of all of the tools you’ve mentioned just uh especially microsoft too is also one of my game changer tools and as you said ticking the boxes and sharing these um these these to do’s with with you know, colleagues, or in my case, I shared with my husband, you know, we have it as a grocery list shopping and everything. And I always love to see when, yep, he puts the bananas into the basket. So it’s done, mission accomplished. And it’s nice to track it a little bit. So I would like to jump into another field for you, Agnes. I know that is close to your heart. because you’re not only a great right hand to Matt and a wonderful assistant, you also work on the voices of all of the assistants within Freudenberg.

00:34:48
So you are the founder of the internal assistant community. So why is this so important for you? Why did you create the group? It’s still quite new. And what are you currently working on?

00:35:00
So I want to make the assistant’s role more visible, right? So this is what I feel like sometimes we have that company slogan, often invisible, always essential. And that perfectly fits to our role.

00:35:16
We are so essential in the background, but unfortunately, that would probably miss here, often invisible. So what I realized when I started as well, there were no real communication between the departments or the admins, let’s say. I was starting to build a network. I was picking up the phone and just asked, hey, guys, how do you do this? Where can I find this? Topics of onboarding things and so on. So I really started from the scratch. And then…

00:35:52
um i was i was like uh got i got introduced to the uh to your podcast actually which helped i mean that was like probably the big change during the first lockdown you know i was like listening to all the episodes you were recording at that time already and i thought oh my god this is exactly what i feel and this is so this is the best thing i i really realized and then i started to share these things within the other admins i got um

00:36:22
connected to at that time already. And then I got also linked to the LinkedIn group, Future Top Assistants, and I was attending the Microsoft Assistant Week, right?

00:36:33
And out of that, out of all these conversations and articles and sessions, I realized, okay, there is so much more we can do. And obviously we have to start with a network. And then I was like,

00:36:53
Starting in the Weinheim area first, I initiated a regular lunch between the assistants. I’m speaking about our unit, right? In the Vordenberg world, we have that ceiling unit we work for.

00:37:07
And then we started a regular lunch and that was super successful. It was all even before the crisis.

00:37:16
We were meeting a lot of times. We shared knowledge. We were really feeling like, hey, we have to align. We have to be more open-minded. We have to share things. We even can negotiate on contracts much better if we consolidate things and needs and so on.

00:37:37
Then, based on these assistant weeks and so on, speaking to other assistants outside of Freudenberg, where I also like started to grow up my network, I realized, okay, we have to roll out an assistant community. So we have like local assistant communities since a while already. The Weinheim one, it’s like a simple Teams channel. And within that channel, it is really a lot of traffic already. Although we don’t have, yeah, it is really, I mean, it’s like almost on a daily base, we have so many things. It is really amazing and fascinating. So many different topics. So it’s buzzing, right? It is really.

00:38:16
And then out of this, I thought, okay, I have to go out. I want to have this community on an international level. Because I work on international. I work in an international team. So I want to align with other systems based, let’s say, in India or in the U.S. as well, right? Yeah. And then first of all, I went to Matt with my idea, because for me, it was important that my manager supports me in that. And he also allows me that I can spend time on that. So what was your answer, Matt? Full of support right away?

00:38:51
Yeah, actually, actually, it really was. We certainly we talked about resources and limitations and things like that. But as soon as we had clarified that, you know, I look over at my wall, and we have our values kind of our stated values written on the wall. And I see ownership and open minded and people oriented. And here I have someone who’s coming to me saying that they’re trying to bring value to the company by, you know, being able to share and create this network. And

00:39:17
There are stated values, either we love them or we don’t. And that includes me. So for me, the answer was for sure. And I’m sure you support knowledge transfer and networking within the assistant community because at the end of the day, it’s a win for everyone, right?

00:39:33
Agreed. Agreed. Yeah, that’s wonderful. And I remember my friend in Hyatt, who’s a former assistant to Google’s Eric Schmidt, and Jeff Bezos’ assistant, good friend of mine, who’s now actually living in Spain. And I was in Zurich with her two weeks ago, where she had the opening keynote, and I gave the closing keynote at an assistance day. And she always talks about the three wins that Eric Schmidt always said. Whenever you pitch yourself, there needs to be the win for yourself. There needs to be the win for your executive. At the end of the day, it needs to be the win for the organization. And I think you had these three wins ready, Agnes, right? Mm-hmm.

00:40:11
Yeah, absolutely. For sure. And this is like my vision I have. And I mean, then I went out and I was like, you know, asking, we went even public on the portal with an article. And then like within that article, we were like, raising the question like, is there someone out who want to build the core team together with me? And then based on that, the core team got founded. We are five core team members now globally located. So they’re not all in Weinheim, which is great. We have like different aspects to bring into the conversations. And we already created the name and the slogan of our community.

00:40:58
And yeah, and then we also assigned the roles, the different roles, because I made really clear in front of the core team as well from the very beginning, I don’t want to be the leader.

00:41:08
We are all in this together and I don’t have the capacity to run this all on my own. Right. It can’t be. And we have to really like assign roles. And we are we are all on the same level, let’s say so.

00:41:22
and um now my role my assigned role is more or less like on the communication thing so i’m i’m went to whomever i speak to in the community in the con in the sorry in the con organization i always point out what i do very good so yeah and then um also like it’s a matter of um sponsoring thing whenever we we are we’re having our pitch deck um out and fully created which is almost done I will go out to specific managers and go there and see if I can probably have some budget as well, even to run like an in-house meeting, training session, things like that, right? You need these sponsors and I’m glad that also Matt is supporting you, of course, and giving you resources and empowerment here.

00:42:10
And that’s really important that there’s support of the management in the background and, of course, HR and all the other stakeholders. So, when we look at the role of the management assistant in general, Matt, what is your view here? How is the role transforming and what are the skills that are essential?

00:42:29
We all watched COVID hit. We saw almost instantly the role of the assistant really change.

00:42:35
At that time, I was running about 50% travel and that went to zero. We had tons of corporate events that were happening where Agnes was really taking a lead on a lot of those and they went almost for a year, year and a half, they went to zero. And I think any company at that time is starting to look around saying, what is the role of an assistant at that point? And I think

00:42:57
When Agnes talked about, you know, she found your podcast, she found this network on LinkedIn and really searching for what are the things that can make me valuable inside of an organization. It was really important for her to have done that. And then the discussion that happened between her and I, I think she mentioned early on that she was getting involved in HR topics and things. And it was all, you know, the work between her and I to say, how do we make sure that you have a real workload in front of you that’s valuable and bringing value to the company? I think that was important.

00:43:26
And it highlights to me that at the end of the day, it’s a partnership between two people. And when we talk about what is that role to me in an ideal world, you have that pair of people sit down and talk about what their strengths and weaknesses are and what their skills that they have that can make each other stronger.

00:43:45
We talked in the beginning about she’s a people person and I’m an engineer and together we’re able to use those skills to the value of the company. And I think the most important thing is for the two to be able to be flexible, to figure out how they make that strongest team.

00:43:59
Absolutely. And it’s so wonderful to hear this from you, how you really also see the role of the assistant, how it is transforming, how it’s specifically in your case, Agnes can support you in other areas. I mean, I was the same when I was working for my executives. I always wanted more. I pushed for more. I was in charge of internal communications. I was writing speeches. I was a majorly involved in event management, organized the big IFA fair in Berlin, all these kind of things with huge budgets. But I never waited for an invitation unless someone felt like, oh, let’s ask if Diana wants to jump into this project or run this initiative. I wanted to have a seat at the table and I asked for it and I got into an open dialogue with my executive. And it sounds to me like you have these conversations as well. And especially since Agnes knows exactly also what she wants and how she wants to push the assistant community within Freudenberg.

00:44:59
So, Agnes, is there anything else you want to add about your community and about your passion project?

00:45:05
Yeah, I think, I mean, it’s also interesting to see because we have to define the tool actually we are using to run our community, right? Because for sure, as a first guest, we were all saying like, yeah, for sure, it will be launched in Microsoft Teams. And for sure, yes. But then I got introduced to Yammer, which is, I think nowadays, or will be called in the future Viva Engage or so. I don’t know. I really…

00:45:34
I heard about that new name. So Yammer. So that’s a community tool. So I am now part of a test user team. We have the pleasure, we as the assistant community, have the pleasure to test the tool together with two other communities.

00:45:54
And to really like, you know, have like a testing phase to run, post things, use the system how we want to have. We will align afterwards with IT, speak about pros and cons and things like that. And this is what I really love because coming back.

00:46:14
Getting into the role of having a new tool launch probably for the organization is something I really enjoy, I must say. Very good. Yes, I’m glad you mentioned the tool because for sure it is very important to find the right platform to exchange with the other executive assistants. and assistants in general. So Yammer, yeah, I’ve heard the new name for the first time. So let’s see what we’re going to find out. Yeah, quite interesting. I remember I’ve been using Yammer for quite some years and a few companies. It’s always called like the internal Facebook or something. So it’s for sure something that is helpful for your work.

00:46:56
Regarding the transformation of the role of the management assistant, Matt, I would like to come back to you when it comes to titles. And I know title is for sure not always the highest priority, although a few people are definitely relying on their titles. But I would like to share a title with you that Google is using for their assistants for quite some years now, which is executive business partner. And you just mentioned about partnerships. So would you say that this could be a title that we’re going to see more in the future? I certainly know this discussion and I don’t know if maybe my answer is what you hope to hear. I would say that On a macro level, it’s really good conversation to have. I think that way too many businesses and I think way too many executives still look at the role of assistant kind of like it’s portrayed in this TV show, Mad Men.

00:47:49
But in reality, so much has changed. We talked about the pandemic. We’ve talked a lot about the other things that are happening and

00:47:55
But on an individual level, to me, these conversations, they’re so influenced by the unique situations of every company and the individuals that are there. So I would say my answer is it depends. But I will say I do have some concrete advice.

00:48:12
You even kind of mentioned when you said, no, you didn’t ever really in your career wait for the invitation. And I think it’s really great advice to people. Like too often we tell ourselves that if something external to us changes, like then we ourselves will change. And maybe here we focus on the title or a job description or something like this. And we say, if I have a different title, then people will see me differently. And the problem is it’s not real. At the end of the day, it comes from what is it that I’m doing every single day to make myself invaluable to the company. And I do it and Agnes does it. And I’m sure you now is running your own business. You have to do it every day. How do I learn a new skill? How do I grow my responsibility? How do I step myself forward into the next, the next, the next? And the more we all do this as an organization, the easier it is for us to step back and look at

00:49:04
you know, what are we doing in reality and then make the case to our employers that we should be having a different conversation. You know, it’s a promotion, a new title, a pay raise or whatever it is, you know, really taking the steps to do it as an individual. And then the business title, the job description, the pay, whatever the promotion, those things will make sense.

00:49:24
I fully agree to that. Yes, absolutely. And it starts in many situations by leaving the comfort zone. And I know, especially when we look at the role of the assistants, and I just had it actually today in one of my webinars when there was an assistant who clearly stated like, well, my executive is not working with OneNote. Why should I work with it? And I always keep saying, hey, you are investing in yourself, right? And the challenge is always about you. And

00:49:51
understanding a new tool, optimizing a process, getting tech savvy. And this is, of course, the future, the digital competencies. We cannot ignore them. And I felt like, in this case, the comfort zone, she wasn’t ready to leave it. But we all know how dynamic times are. And we see restructurings, and we see new team assignments. And especially assistants, they can work for one executive today and work for another one tomorrow. So I always say, and also for our audience here that is listening to the episode, invest in yourself. I think it’s so important to do that. And then, of course, see how you can transform this investment to your executive and to your organization. Totally agree. Yeah. So speaking of remote leadership, and I would love to hear from Agnes in a second how she describes your leadership style, Matt. But what would you say from an executive perspective that remote leadership has changed the way you lead?

00:50:49
Would you say it was way harder?

00:50:52
Also, a lot of organizations are going hybrid. So give us a little information about the way you lead your teams.

00:51:00
First off, I wouldn’t say that it’s either harder or easier. I would say that it’s the two different styles being remote and in office. They’re really different, both good and both bad.

00:51:14
And I think about 2019, I was in office every day, ran a global team, and I can tell you that was hard.

00:51:21
I spent 2019 living on an airplane and from hotels, and it was because being face-to-face with a global team means you’re always somewhere else.

00:51:31
And I can tell you that the year of 2020 was, you know, on a personal level, it was as difficult as all the things we went through. It was one of the nicest experiences I’ve ever had in 15 years. I can’t tell you, you know, a time when I didn’t go a month without traveling, much less a whole year without, you know, without leaving my house or at least without getting on an airplane. So that great experience that we’ve, or experiment that we’ve been through over these last few years there’s a pendulum that swings. And I think right now it’s swinging really heavy and it’s going in one direction. And I think we’ll also come back.

00:52:06
For remote leadership, I think when relationships are pre-established, I think remote leadership works really, really well. And I think we have that within our team, the leadership team, as I talked about 19 years in the company and I’m the young guy, that relationships really, we are able to leverage that to maintain our culture. i think what doesn’t really work well or at least yet work well is figuring out how to transition long-term uh culture creation and transmission of culture within teams so when we bring someone new on how do we transition to say if we’re in a remote setting that they understand what the culture is and what what it means to be part of our team and i think that’s really really tough um yes

00:52:50
Excuse me. Yeah, you go ahead. Maybe, you know, we are a little bit skewed. We’ve talked a lot about sales. We’re in a sales office and we are by nature really relational people. We need to touch and feel and, you know, it’s not because…

00:53:06
we want managers to be able to control but we want our colleagues to learn from each other and to be in the same place um and it is clear for us that that sales as a just by nature is remote right is that we have to be in front of the customer but the same thing is about our leadership is that we have to be in front of our people and talking to and understanding you know what they need and how they need and and so much of that is just lost you know in a virtual screen

00:53:34
Yes, indeed. And once again, here’s the connection to the role of the assistant, supporting the team, having a feel for the atmosphere. What do we need as a team? How do we need to work on our values, on our commitments? And I think this is one of the core skills here when we come back to the discussion of being a people manager is, to having a feeling, OK, I’m not having the water cooler discussion here because there is no water cooler discussion because we are all remote, but still so connected. And you said that earlier, Matt, that one of the core skills of Agnes is for sure the networking and the building bridges. So I always say also part of this new leadership style is for sure the power of the assistant in the background.

00:54:21
Agnes, what would you say about the leadership style of Matt? Would you say it changed from having him in the room and now being remote? Or what would you say in general about the way he leads the team?

00:54:37
Well, I think in general, what I said earlier already, like Matt fully trusts in the team and in the work we are doing. And that’s a super important point. We all know that. And he also appreciates a lot what we are doing. So this is like, I think the most important that we really all know that, right? Then for sure, I mean, he’s running…

00:55:02
town hall meetings so everyone, even the new people on the team can see him at least virtually, keeping the team updated on latest data, but also on the strategics and on the newest vision and values and things like that. Everything he and the leadership team works on. This is important for him that he’s pretty transparent

00:55:33
What he also does is he’s doing skip-level meetings quite often with the team. So he is meeting different team members, inviting them to either in-person meetings when they’re in the same location, obviously, but also via Teams. And within these meetings, he’s a good listener. He’s trying to understand the challenges we all face every day on our daily work.

00:56:04
But he’s also like, you know, connecting to the people a bit on a private life, right? To really keep like the relationship we had already alive, right? So this is like super important. And I know that these type of meetings are really appreciated by the team as well.

00:56:24
And he’s always available. Whenever you have something, you need advice or you really have difficulties or so on, everyone knows that they can really reach out to Matt. They don’t hesitate. That’s wonderful. So I hear a lot of kudos here coming out of this, the things you just said about Matt, which is wonderful. So why don’t we end the conversation of giving a few more kudos to Agnes. Matt, is there anything you specifically, my English is gone, specifically want to address to her, especially when you look back at the collaboration you are in and also the way she’s supporting you?

00:57:07
Yeah, for sure. I think we’ve covered a couple of the big key items. We talked about trust and ownership. And I think that it’s one of the things that I see very much with Agnes is that she really has that trusting relationship together with me. And I’m fully confident she takes ownership for the things that she’s doing. And for me, that’s really, really important. And I really appreciate it.

00:57:30
I appreciate really her desire to grow in whatever way she can. I mean, we’ve talked about, you know,

00:57:37
Different examples of things that assistants might grow into and she was really clear. I love my job. I love what I’m doing. But it also doesn’t mean that she wants to be stagnant. And I, you know, I’m always pushing the people around me and I push myself to grow and in whatever way that means I really appreciate that. She is looking for ways to be better, better for herself, not necessarily just better for me or for the team, but just to be better.

00:58:02
I really appreciate the deep passion that she has for helping others. I see it and I really, really saw it over the last three years, both as my assistant who was working with me as an expat, but I saw her stepping in to fill gaps where the organization was not.

00:58:20
uh maybe doing what we thought was the right amount of support for some of the other expats that were within our organization and and she was really saying you know someone’s got to do it and i’m going to do it because you know at the end it’s just caring for people um of course the networking superpower right i don’t have it and and she does and i really appreciate that and maybe the last one is is the friendship you know she mentioned in the beginning and i would echo what she said Um, I’ve always said, and my wife and I’ve talked about this, you know, the partnership that you develop with an assistant over time is, is to a certain extent, kind of intimate in the way that, I mean, I’ve always joked if my, um, if my identity is ever stolen, Agnes is the first person that I’m going to call. She has everything. She knows every single thing about me. Um, and, and, and, but over time it develops, you know, or can develop into a friendship. And I think with, with Agnes and I, that’s definitely true.

00:59:15
That is such great kudos what we’re hearing here. And I definitely can echo what you just said, Matt. And in many cases, I always or I got the call from my executive and the first call always came to me and then the wife got the call.

00:59:33
When something happened, it was always the assistance numbers first and then the call to the wife. So, I mean, it’s always wonderful to see when these partnerships are running. And I definitely hear this here from the conversation. We had so much appreciation for both of you for giving out a little insight about the way you collaborate, about the way you look at change, about the way you have been transforming through the COVID time. And it was a wonderful opportunity for me to talk to you both and to get a little bit more information about your working style. We’re going to cover, of course, everything you’ve been sharing, especially Matt, thanks for all the tools you gave away. A few new tools for me as well. I’m definitely going to check out the Habit Tracker website. And we’re going to put all of this into the show notes. So everybody who’s listening to us, make sure you check out show notes.

01:00:26
We’re going to share a little bit of information there. You also have the opportunity to connect with Agnes and Matt over LinkedIn. So you’re going to find their links in there. And I can only say, assistants, get in touch with Agnes. She’s full of passion.

01:00:40
She is going to bring the assistant community within Freudenberg for sure to the next level. And of course, she is ready to share her knowledge. And this is what I really adore about you, Agnes, that you share knowledge, that you open up your network and help others to grow. And so kudos also from my side to you. Thank you. very welcome so thank you so much for being here on the future system podcast very excited to release this episode uh all the best to you and be safe thank you thank you so much Diana

01:01:15
I would like to remind you to check out the show notes because there are two links waiting for you that Matthew has been mentioning. The habit list and the year compass. And you’re going to find also the LinkedIn links to the profiles to Matthew and Agnes. So make sure you reach out to them, especially Agnes, of course. Wonderful to have her out there as a strong voice for supporting assistance. for setting up internal assistant networks. And I can only say thank you so much to both of you for being on the show today. Wishing you all the best.

Ep 373: Maaike Knoester Interviews Jeremy Burrows on the 5 Star Assistant Podcast

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 26 Apr 2026 15:27:53 +0000

I had the honor of speaking with Maaike Knoester for an interview on the 5 Star Assistant Podcast to discuss my 20-year career as an Executive Assistant, my book The Leader Assistant, and the journey of producing over 360 episodes of my own podcast.

In this conversation we talk about challenging misconceptions about our profession. The greatest misunderstanding is that EAs are merely “one-trick ponies” focused on scheduling and expenses. In reality, we are strategic partners who see the whole picture for our executives. Internally, the biggest barrier I see is a lack of confidence, often stemming from attaching personal worth to job performance.

To combat burnout and build a sustainable career, I emphasize two core principles:

Detach your worth from your work. Your value as a person is separate from your job performance.
Set clear boundaries. I made it a point with my current executive to log off on the weekends because you cannot truly help others long-term if you don’t take care of yourself.

Finally, when it comes to being busy, I see “multitasking” not as doing two things at once, but as the critical skill of prioritizing and context switching effectively between diverse responsibilities.

Thank you, Maaike, for the opportunity to be on your show, and for asking such great questions!

CONNECT WITH MAAIKE

ABOUT MAAIKE KNOESTER

With over 20 years of experience as a trainer and coach, Maaike Knoester helps support professionals own their 5-Star Value and raise their profile. Not by working even harder, but by taking their place with powerful personal leadership. True 5-Star Assistants are instantly recognizable. Not only by the way they perform their work—with precision, strength, and impact—but especially by how they see themselves: as an indispensable force in the organization.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Intro: 00:06
The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

Maaike: 00:19
Welcome to the Five Star Assistant Podcast, and this is in English for my Dutch listeners. This isn’t English now, because I have a special guest, very special, from the US, and it’s Jeremy Burroughs. Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Jeremy: 00:38
Hey, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Maaike: 00:41
Yeah, so am I, because when I started the podcast, the Five Star Assistant Podcast, I was looking for examples and I saw the Leader Assistant Podcast showing up as the only one at that time. That was 2019. So to me, you’re a great example of using your voice for assistance. So thank you so much for inspiring me to do the same thing here in uh in Holland and Belgium.

Jeremy: 01:11
Yeah, you’re welcome, and I’m glad that uh I’m glad to be speaking with another podcast host for sure.

Maaike: 01:17
Yeah. Yeah, so let me introduce you a little bit, and then of course you can introduce yourself furthermore. Um you are an executive assistant, like senior executive assistant, so for a long time now, you also um wrote a book, not only the podcast, but you also wrote the book The Leader Assistant Pot uh The Leader Assistant, where you use also the four pillars um as an important piece of yeah, I would say like to become a five-star assistant, maybe that’s that’s uh a bit familiar. And you’ve done um, I think 360 episodes, so that’s quite impressive.

Jeremy: 02:02
Thank you. Yeah, it’s been a lot, it’s been a lot, but it’s been fun. Yeah, I’m currently senior executive assistant to the CEO of a software company based out of St. Louis, Missouri. We have over 400 employees all over the world. Our company’s called Capacity. Uh, we’re in the AI-powered support automation software platform uh industry, and so I was hired number one. We started in January 2017 and uh yeah, been there ever since, and it’s been a fun ride, and I love being an assistant, and I think this is my 20th year as an executive assistant.

Maaike: 02:38
Cool. So, yeah, I always ask my guests at first what their guilty pleasure is. So can you reveal what it is to you?

Jeremy: 02:50
Oh, you know, I’d probably say uh there’s a couple treats that I really like to eat that are super unhealthy and probably full of chemicals. Uh, I don’t know if they probably don’t even have these um in your country, but they’re called uh I think they’re from Hostess and they’re called zingers. They’re like chocolate, they’re almost like Twinkie, chocolate Twinkies with chocolate icing and and you know white cream filling. Um but that’s kind of one of those things where it’s very unhealthy, but every once in a while I’ll swing by the gas station and pick up a pack because I really like them.

Maaike: 03:29
Yeah, and it gives you a little joy at the moment, so makes you and then and then and then maybe a little bit of regret afterwards. But oh yeah, yeah, that was that that’s why it’s guilty pleasure, of course. Yeah, great. And can you tell me a little bit more where you live, with whom?

Jeremy: 03:46
And yeah, so I live in Kansas City, Missouri, right in the middle of the United States. I was uh raised here. I was actually born in Virginia, but I moved to Kansas City when I was one, and so I’ve been here most of my life. I did live in uh St. Louis for about 16 years, uh, met my wife there, had our kids there. We have two boys, um, and then we moved back here during COVID in 2020. And so my uh let’s see, my boys are 12 and 14.

Maaike: 04:20
Okay.

Jeremy: 04:21
And they’re in soccer, um, baseball. My oldest plays violin. Um, so yeah, it’s uh it’s fun, fun ages and uh fun time, me and a dad for sure.

Maaike: 04:36
Nice. And and baseball is also one of your um big passion, right?

Jeremy: 04:44
Yeah, I love baseball. Uh, I played a little bit when I was a kid, and I love going to baseball games and taking my son to baseball, and um, yeah, it’s fun uh fun times for sure.

Maaike: 04:57
Yeah, so yeah, I’m very um curious, of course, what in March 2019 you launched the Leader Assistant Podcast. Um, what made you decide to start the podcast?

Jeremy: 05:13
Yeah, I would uh I would say I’ve I’ve always had kind of an audio production background and interest in it. And when I had my prior role, I had done some audio editing, some podcast work. So, and then I did some music, I was into music a lot. So when I was doing, when I started off as assistant training and coaching, speaking for executive assistants all over the world, I thought, you know, maybe someday I’ll do a podcast. Well, I didn’t want to start one until I was ready and had enough content that I felt like I could actually keep going. Because when I first launched, there were not very many podcasts out there for assistants. Uh, and the few that were out there um were not updated or hadn’t been updated in a long time. And so I figured if I could, one, I like the medium and I enjoy audio production. I enjoy doing the editing myself and deciding what to cut or what.

Maaike: 06:15
You like the technical stuff.

Jeremy: 06:17
Yeah, I like the technical stuff.

Maaike: 06:19
Yeah.

Jeremy: 06:19
Um, but two, I obviously, you know, I like the medium of podcasting as far as reaching people all over the world and helping people all over the world. Yeah. But again, I wanted to do it really well. I didn’t want to um kind of go in with you know one foot one toe in. I wanted to go all in. And so in 2019, I had enough blogs written, I had enough of a network, I had enough, I had more experience, and I thought, you know what, I’ll just see if I can schedule out, you know six months or a year worth of podcast content. Oh, yeah. And if I could, if I could, then I would go ahead and start the podcast. So I started mapping it out, and I was like, I think I have enough content to produce a weekly episode. Yeah. And so fast forward uh so March 2019, and then uh now we’re in 2026, and I’ve published over 360 episodes. I’ve only missed two weeks. There, there’s two holidays in 2019, I think.

Maaike: 07:20
That is so good, like it’s so consistent.

Jeremy: 07:24
Yeah, it’s been a lot, it’s been a lot, but I’m proud to say that I’ve kept it up and I crossed over a million downloads in early 2025, and that was my goal when I set out to get to a million downloads.

Maaike: 07:36
Okay, congratulations on that.

Jeremy: 07:38
Thank you.

Maaike: 07:38
I guess my goal is two million now, but yeah, raised your goals.

Jeremy: 07:43
So yeah, so that’s kind of why I uh I kicked off and and have have been going ever since.

Maaike: 07:49
Yeah, yeah, and and I read uh on your website and I think in your book as well, that you are you see yourself as a as an introvert. So that raised the question to me from okay, so what what helped you to choose for visibility? Because with yeah, with speaking for public, with your podcast, you are uh you are yeah, not only behind the scenes, but right in front.

Jeremy: 08:20
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s one of those things where I’m an introvert, but if I prepare and plan, then I can present, I I speak, I do training, um, I enjoy that element and helping people in that way. Um, I just have to prepare a lot. And so it’s a lot easier. It’s kind of sounds a little uh a little outside the box, but for a high introvert like me, I would rather go on stage in front of a thousand people and present a keynote than then go to a party with 25 people and try to make small talk.

Maaike: 09:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because does it have to do with your expertise that it’s like you can really share like yeah the content?

Jeremy: 09:14
Yeah, it’s it’s partly that. And then it’s just like when you’re in a uh social setting, there’s a lot of small talk, which I don’t enjoy small talk. Um, I like to skip that part and get into deep conversations about interesting topics. Um and I also I also just enjoy like preparing and and coming up with my my bullets and my slides and my stories and just kind of integrating everything together into a story arc and and so yeah, I think it’s a little eas a little easier to do that when you have time to prepare and present to people.

Maaike: 09:53
So yeah, exactly. A lot of preparation. So okay. What do you believe is the one thing most people misunderstand about being an executive assistant?

Jeremy: 10:08
Oh, that’s a tough question. Um I would say most people, executives, professionals uh in the corporate world don’t understand the weight that executive assistants carry. Um, when it comes to discretion and confidentiality, when it comes to seeing all sides of the elephant, if you will, there’s that old analogy, it’s like, oh, I I think this is a giraffe, or I think this is a whatever, and then you turn the light on and it’s an elephant, elephant, because only people can only see the one part of that they see. And I think assistants, assistants can see the whole picture more often than others, and I think people don’t understand that. People think that we are one-trick ponies, and that we do scheduling, uh, travel and expenses and other duties as assigned, and they don’t see that we are actually strategic in our perspective and strategic in our action right.

Maaike: 11:25
Yeah, there’s a lot more to it. Yeah. Yeah. And and that’s the thing also um w what what do you see on the other side with assistants that they might not accelerate or might not live to their full potential? Because you talk about the leader assistant, so that’s not someone who is only um oh I I don’t know the word in English now. It’s not one who only does what’s being told, but she’s a leader or he’s a leader. And so what did you see with assistants that they hold back or yeah, I think that the number one thing is that assistants lack confidence, myself included, and we don’t lack generally speaking, we don’t lack the skills, right?

Jeremy: 12:29
We just lack the confidence. And so uh a lot of times that comes down to simply put, we attach our worth as human beings to our work as assistants. And what I mean by that is in my career, I was the least confident when I was attaching my worth as a human being to my work. And if I did well, then I was yeah, I felt good, I felt I had a high ego, I was confident and cocky, more than confident.

Maaike: 13:06
Yeah.

Jeremy: 13:07
Um, but then if I was if I made a mistake or if I received criticism or even constructive feedback from my executive, I’d feel that disapproval and it would wreck me, it would ruin me. I would feel like a worthless person because I failed in my job. And so then that would destroy my confidence and it would destroy my ability to lead. And so I think the bottom line, and I talk a lot about this in the book, but also when I do my trainings, is um if we can detach our worth uh as human beings from our work as assistants, that actually frees us to be confident and lead because we don’t care if we get the full approval of our colleagues and our executive. We just care about doing good work and we know that it doesn’t impact us and it doesn’t impact our value as people.

Maaike: 13:58
Yeah, you don’t have to prove yourself anymore, like being Right. Yeah. And then there’s something also when I hear you tell me this, there’s something like perfectionism, which I see a lot with assistants that uh perfectionism can really be a killer for enjoying the work and yeah, allowing yourself to grow. You need to make mistakes.

Jeremy: 14:23
Yeah, and I would say that, and I would call that control. I would say our desire for control or micromanaging and you know being perfect and controlling the environment so that we can we can excel uh in a certain way. Uh a lot of times that’s related to the root of it is control, or we feel anxious and we worry when we feel like we’re losing the control that we thought we had. Um but then other times it’s approval. Uh and so you’re trying to be perfect because you want the approval of somebody. So there’s a there’s a there’s a lot to dive into there that we have to do a long session for that.

Maaike: 15:01
Well, my trainings also are the goal is to be more confident, and I think also I like what you say, like game, game-changing, um uh yeah, confident game-changing assistance. Because that’s also what I see. It’s it’s a lot of yeah, it’s just insecurity, actually.

Jeremy: 15:24
Definitely, definitely.

Maaike: 15:25
Yeah, I have a question from uh she posted it on LinkedIn when she knew that you were coming to the show from uh Caroline, Caroline. Um she asked, what is your view on mental health for assistance?

Jeremy: 15:40
Yeah, I mean I talk a little bit to the importance of again detaching your worth from your work. Um but also I think that I talk a lot about burnout uh boundaries and really being aware of the lack of boundaries uh with your executive and with your team. And I think that it’s very important for us as assistants because the problem is um we actually care more than most people. Uh we care about our executives, we care about their families, we care about our team members, and we want to help people. But the problem is that that’s obviously a strength of being an assistant, is we care so much. Yeah, however, the problem is we can care so much that we care about other people more than we care for ourselves. And so that that causes us to um burn out, have mental health issues, have physical health issues, stress-induced illness, uh, because we don’t take care of ourselves because we’re like, well, we’re we’re sacrificing our time and our energy and and our health for the benefit of others, and we feel we feel noble and we convince ourselves that it’s it’s a noble thing to do. But the reality is you can’t actually help other people for very long if you don’t take care of yourself.

Maaike: 17:10
Exactly. Yeah, I totally totally agree. So you say boundaries. So would you say if if people listening and and they do feel like, oh yeah, I’m I’m really loose on that one, is is that the one thing for you that made a change to set healthier boundaries?

Jeremy: 17:32
Yeah, I think uh it’s one of the things that when I started working with my current CEO, executive, I said, listen, I’m going to be the best assistant you’ve ever had, and I’m gonna work my tail off, but I’m also going to log off on the weekends, right? Like so, unless it’s truly urgent, which urgent is rarely urgent, right? Uh we our executives and our colleagues just convince themselves that these things are urgent. But the reality is most things can wait uh till Monday. And so I just said I’m gonna work like crazy, but then I’m also gonna log off and enjoy my time off. So I’m gonna work hard and I’m gonna work well, but I’m also gonna rest well. Yeah, and so that was a big part of setting up that.

Maaike: 18:24
To say that in advance, like this is the the person I am, this is the way I like to work with you.

Jeremy: 18:30
Yeah, and it’s hard to say it. I I said it to my prior executive, I didn’t say it in advance, I said it six after six years working with him. Uh and it was a little bit more challenging because I basically was like, hey, we can’t, we can’t keep going at this pace, it’s not sustainable.

Maaike: 18:47
Yeah.

Jeremy: 18:47
Um so that’s a little bit more difficult of a conversation to have.

Maaike: 18:51
Yeah, yeah, but to act, yeah. In the end you have to be clear, right?

Jeremy: 18:57
Yeah, yep, yep.

Maaike: 18:59
So let me see. Uh a question. Yeah, that’s uh another one. Uh Isabel DeWitt, uh, she wrote the book, um, management assistant, superhero of the company. And she’s like you, she loves to write, and she is an assistant herself. And she would like to know um what was your drive to write the book, The Leader Assistant, and what kept you going, even in the moments when the writing process was challenging and heavy. I guess she can tell from her experience.

Jeremy: 19:34
Yeah, yeah, Isabella. Writing a book, as you know, is very challenging. Um, I think the key thing for me was it was very emotionally draining. There were some days I was very excited, and I thought these ideas were gonna change the world, and then the next day I thought nobody’s gonna read this, and the people that do read it are gonna hate it. So it’s like this roller coaster of emotions the whole time you’re writing it. And so what kept me going was like, listen, the two the two biggest things that kept me going were one, I had I had done enough work with assistants. I had shared these ideas for many years before I you know curated them into the book. So I had seen that these ideas had helped assistants. Maybe not every assistant, but a lot of assistants had directly told me, hey, these are helpful, this is really, you know, and executives too. Hey, this concept is very helpful for my executive assistant and I. These have been helpful. So I had some validation, right? So that kind of helped me keep going. Like, hey, you know what, this isn’t, I’m not just pulling these things out of thin air and hoping they stick. I’ve been writing about these same concepts and ideas for years, and they’ve they’ve received good feedback.

Maaike: 20:52
Yeah.

Jeremy: 20:52
But the other thing that kept me going was the idea of this this uh similar to what I did with the podcast, the the medium of a book is such a low barrier to entry to get help. So you can you can spend $15, $20 to buy a book or to listen to an audiobook, and you can learn a lot, and it can be very helpful. And so, anyone in the world can go on their local or or their retail site and download the book or get the book shipped or print it or listen to it. So it’s very scalable. So I could take all these ideas and reach as many people as who want whoever wanted to accept the ideas, they could they could actually find them. And it was very low cost. So, you know, it’s not that difficult of an ask to say, hey, will you buy this book? Or even some people get it in their libraries, right? They ask, they request it at their library and they don’t even pay for it, they use it, use it through the library.

Maaike : 22:01
Yeah.

Jeremy: 22:02
So that kind of kept me going too. It’s like, hey, you know what, this is going to help a lot of people that can’t afford a coaching session or can’t afford a course or can’t afford to go to some event in a different city.

Maaike: 22:13
Yeah. Oh, so cool. Yeah. And it’s really a book that it’s it’s about also mindset. But the second part is way more practical. So if you want to have some tools or how do you communicate with your executive or uh meetings or scheduling, that’s all in there as well. So it’s it has both sides of it.

Jeremy: 22:39
Yeah, I tried to be I tried to be very practical, like a guide that you can just open up to the chapter on email management if you’re trying to figure out how to manage your executive’s email. You can skip to the trap chapter on communication if you’re having a communication breakdown with your executive or your team.

Maaike : 22:56
Yeah.

Jeremy: 22:56
And just wanted to make it very practical. But also, again, I’m passionate about hey, you can’t, I didn’t want to just write a guide that didn’t also talk about self-care and burnout and leadership.

Maaike: 23:11
Yeah, yeah. And and the one big question we have here in this part of Europe, Holland and uh Belgium, is um there’s not many male assistants. I could maybe if I’m guessing, I didn’t really do research on it, but I’ve seen less of them, way less of them, in my trainings. I would say one on 50 would be a male assistant. Um that’s different in in the US, isn’t it?

Jeremy: 23:42
Uh it’s not uh it’s not really, I think 90% plus assistants are female. And so it’s definitely rare. It’s definitely rare to have to have a male assistant. And so I’ve, you know, I’ve been called um you know she or her or or uh whatever a few times on emails because they just assume that my executive’s assistant uh is female. But I don’t mind. I you know, I tell people I get asked this question like what’s it like being a male assistant in a female-dominated industry? And I really have nothing to complain about. I’m grateful for the opportunity. I love being an assistant. I I really uh appreciate the the career opportunities that it gives you. You can take your skill set as an assistant and you can go from the nonprofit world like I did into the for-profit software AI world. Yeah. It translates really well. Um and then, you know, I I’m very privileged as a white male in America, and so being in a profession where I happen to be a minority is like really the only place that I’m a minority in my country, and so um I I have nothing to complain about.

Maaike: 25:02
No, and and the funny thing is because would there be a difference in in uh in how you do the job uh if you’re female or male? And there’s a funny question from uh uh an assistant here in Belgium. She attended a workshop uh I gave, and she asked, like, what would multitasking for a man look like? Maybe it’s different from how a woman is multitasking, because they say that women can multitask um better than how how does that work out for you?

Jeremy: 25:39
Well, I mean, I would say I’m definitely a wannabe multitasker. Uh I know that it’s uh it’s a challenge, and I think the key key for me is I I can’t really say much about the difference there, but I think the key for me when it comes to multitasking is to remember that it’s not it’s not really the the request or the ask to do two things at once. It’s more I need to be able to prioritize and context switch often. Often. So even today, you know, I was on a call with my executive’s uh wife, and we were talking about travel plans, so I booked a flight, and then I had to context switch over to my parents who live across the street, their sewage line, sewer ladder line uh collapsed in their yard, and they’re and the plumbers out there digging up the whole yard, and so I had to run over there and and you know, right after that phone call, right before I talked, uh hopped on the podcast here with you, Micah. Uh I had to run over there and check in with my dad and make sure, make sure everything was okay. And I slipped and I fell in the mud. And you know, so it’s like I wasn’t doing I wasn’t doing uh the podcast at the same time that I was on the phone with my executive’s wife the same time that I was slipping in the mud, but I did have to, I had, I did have to context shift and and change where my head was for each of those things.

Maaike: 27:16
And your clothes.

Jeremy: 27:17
And I literally had to change my clothes too.

Maaike: 27:19
Yes. Yes. All right. Um well let me just end by, of course, I’ll I’ll ask um where people can find you and connect to you, but where do you see yourself in five years from now?

Jeremy: 27:36
Well, five years from now, my youngest son will be, I guess, a junior in high school or something like that. And then my older son will be out of high school. And my hopefully I’ll have written another book. I’ve got a few books uh that I’m working on I wanna I want to publish. Um and I think I’m hopeful that I’ll have the opportunity and be blessed to have the opportunity to continue to speak with assistants and train assistants and coach assistants and um really just do what I love, uh, which is helping other people. Uh, but specifically, I really am passionate about helping assistants. So hopefully in five years I’ll still be doing that and enjoying my uh my boys as they’re uh growing older post-high school stage.

Maaike: 28:28
Yeah, that will be a whole new error. Thank you. So thank you so much for your time, Jeremy. I know you’re very busy, um, but it was very nice to meet you in person. Um, where can people connect with you if they want to know more?

Jeremy: 28:46
Yeah, thanks, Micah. I appreciate it. Appreciate all you’re doing for the community on your side of the world for sure, and um I’m happy that you you asked me to be here and thanks for your patience as I was cleaning the mud off of my uh my hands. Uh but yeah, leaderassistant.com is the best place to reach out. Uh LinkedIn is great too, but leaderassistant.com, um that’s where my info on my book, my podcast, my uh LeaderAssistant Academy online program, and then uh uh lots of other resources. So would love to love to hear from your listeners. And if anybody’s listening that wants to just reach out and say hi again, leaderassistant.com or ping me on LinkedIn. I’d love to love to connect.

Maaike: 29:32
Yes, great. They probably will. And um, it’s also good to mention that your book, The Leader Assistant, uh, can be um bought here on uh bowl.com. That’s our version of Amazon.

Maaike : 29:47
Yeah.

Maaike: 29:47
So you can just um buy it online. All right, thank you, Jeremy, for your time.

Jeremy: 29:52
Yeah, no problem. All right, well, take care.

Maaike: 29:54
Yes, you too. Bye bye.

Ep 372: A Conversation with Heleen Vink – Management Assistant to the Deputy CEO & CFO at Ingka Group | IKEA

Jeremy Burrows — Sun, 19 Apr 2026 15:25:24 +0000

Diana Brandl is a longtime C-Suite assistant, and host of the Executive Office Insights podcast.

In this spotlight episode, explore how service skills evolve into strategy as Heleen Vink shares her path from hospitality to supporting the CEO of Ingka Group (IKEA), the calendar audit that reset priorities, and the systems that protect deep work and drive stakeholder engagement. Heleen and Diana also outline how to build an internal assistant network and keep balance through community and creativity.

Topics covered:

hospitality foundations shaping executive support
moving from generalist skills to a stakeholder specialty
the structure and roles inside a lean CEO support team
how to run a calendar audit and turn data into priorities
setting non‑negotiables like protected work‑alone time
building an internal assistant network with clear purpose
learning by doing: speeches, reports, and projects
finding your voice and influence with direct feedback
sustainable work life balance through support systems
music as a tool for confidence, presence, and renewal

Enjoy!

CONNECT WITH HELEEN

Heleen on LinkedIn

ABOUT HELEEN

Heleen Vink is Management Assistant supporting the Deputy CEO & CFO at Ingka Group | IKEA, by contributing to strategic processes & planning and seamless, efficient daily operations with a focus on CEO Relations & Stakeholder Engagement within the business and beyond.

Heleen also leads the development of an internal community dedicated to Assistants, Business Support Assistants, Coordinators and others who focus on supporting leaders and Group Functions at Ingka Group | IKEA – and beyond.

Ingka Group consists of three business areas;

– IKEA Retail, which consists of 392 IKEA stores across 32 markets, and counting. Welcoming 657 million visitors to these stores last year, and having more than 4.3 billion visits to https://www.ikea.com/.

– Ingka Centres creates great meeting places where each centre is anchored by an IKEA store.

– Ingka Investments makes responsible investments in the core business, or in areas that add value for customers allowing growth across IKEA Retail business.

Heleen started at IKEA in 2011 and previously worked as Executive Secretary (Chief Sustainability and Chief HR) and Global Stakeholder Engagement Leader within the Global Public Affairs team. She has a degree in Hotel & Hospitality Management where prior to IKEA, she worked for 10 years with hotel operations, sales and event management.

Heleen has a particular passion for Climate Action and Equality topics, is married and has two young children.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00
Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant Podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.

00:00:28
The Leader Assistant podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

00:00:42
Check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/372.

00:00:47
To be honest, it is not easy to impress me, but this lady did, and I’m glad I met her live during one of my trainings last year. I was blown away by the way she looks at the profession, how she’s challenging the profession, what she’s doing in her role as a CEO coordinator, and what she plans to do around setting up an internal assistant network.

00:01:09
She is supporting the CEO of Ingka Group, which is IKEA. And you can only imagine how busy this man is. Well, luckily he has Heleen. She takes care of him and has a bunch of wonderful colleagues around her who really make the executive successful. I’m very happy to introduce you to her because she has a lot of talents to share with us. And by the way, one of them is singing.

00:01:34
It is a pleasure of welcoming a great assistant who is really a game changer out there in our profession. And I got to meet her personally. Can you imagine that? Because sometimes I get to sit with guests and I’ve never met these people, probably will never meet them in person. in the real life. But in this case, I was in a meeting room with her for a long time and I got to see her live and I got to see how she looks at our profession. And this is why I knew immediately I need to have her on the show. So I’m glad she said yes.

00:02:05
So welcome, everybody. Here’s the wonderful Heleen Vink.

00:02:09
Hey, Diana. Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to reconnect. And thanks for inviting me to the podcast. I’m excited.

00:02:16
You know, and I told her already that I was nervous about pronouncing the name because it’s not a German name. It sounds maybe a bit Dutch to a lot of people probably who are familiar. And it’s true, right? So you are a native Dutch, right?

00:02:29
I am. Yep. Born and raised. And I have the luxury of working very close to where I grew up. Yeah.

00:02:37
And I learned earlier that you’re based in Leiden, which is not too far from Amsterdam. So is this your base for a long time already?

00:02:47
Yeah, it’s been home base for my entire IKEA career, actually, which is a little bit over 11 years.

00:02:55
In various roles, as I think we’ll get into. But yeah, it sits 20 minutes south of Amsterdam and then 20 minutes south from there is home for me.

00:03:05
It’s a lovely place. I recommend anybody coming to the Netherlands to check it out.

00:03:10
And we have a strong Dutch base here, listeners from the Netherlands. And one of the first episodes I recorded was with my dear friend Jannie, who for sure is going to listen to this episode here.

00:03:21
Shout out to Jannie.

00:03:22
Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, it feels like it’s been ages since we last saw each other, which was actually only in December. And yeah.

00:03:32
I think probably everyone who’s listening to this episode will probably remember the news that actually happened just two days after we left this hotel. Because there was this famous, famous fish tank and the aquarium that broke in Berlin. And this was actually the hotel we were in. So it was so sad. And I remember we were in touch about it. Because we had such a great time in this hotel, which was a fantastic hotel with the whole service.

00:03:59
It was a lovely place and we were all in awe of this lovely aquarium. And then to find out just a couple of days after we left about that horrible incident, it was very sad.

00:04:10
I remember that Lucy was reaching out to me and she said, did you see the news? And I felt like, no, this is not really happening.

00:04:17
But we had a great time and I’m glad we came there early. Yes.

00:04:22
The training went so well. And this is how I got to meet you and your colleague. We were a bunch of wonderful people. And so I got to know you a little bit. So I’m excited to get to know you here on the podcast as well. So what would you say? Who is Heleen? Yes.

00:04:39
I find it a very difficult question to answer. As many, I wear lots of different hats.

00:04:49
But this year, I think this year is big for me because I have a big birthday coming up. I’ll turn 40 later in the summer. As we mentioned, I’m Dutch. I grew up here. I have the luxury of working close to where I also have my support system, my parents and extended family. I live together with three boys, two young ones and one, shall we say, young at heart, young spirit at once. But I’ll soon celebrate almost being together with him for two decades. And I just love spending time with all of them.

00:05:26
I feel I have a big thing outside of all of the different hats I play. And that’s also making music as a singer. I love singing in my band and doing other kind of musical projects.

00:05:38
So hopefully that gives you a bit more of an image of who I am. Absolutely.

00:05:45
And I can tell you, someone who just turned 44, I can tell you that the big 40 is…

00:05:51
always a fun number. Nothing to be scared for, right? Not at all. Not at all. I mean, I’m now four years into it and it still feels good.

00:05:59
So, yeah, I hope you’re going to have a large party. I feel life gets better with each year, to be honest. It’s true. I must say it’s absolutely true.

00:06:09
So, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your professional background? Because you started actually in the hospitality industry, right?

00:06:15
I did. And a lot of assistants do that, right? It’s so interesting. I still meet a lot of people today also at IKEA who come from that industry. I think it’s such a great place to learn many different capabilities.

00:06:31
One could even say everyone would benefit from being in a kind of service-oriented type of role. I think it goes a very long way. I started working pretty young. I remember still having my 17th birthday ahead of me and starting my internship behind the front desk. And I just absolutely loved it.

00:06:53
Thinking back, I sometimes feel, wow, I was really young back then.

00:06:58
So I’m pretty brave, I guess, and courageous of myself, but also of the people that believed in me at the time and really saw me capable of that because I think it built a lot of trust for myself as well. Yeah, so it felt very natural for me to kind of learn by doing. And I spent almost a decade in the hotel and hospitality industry. mostly front of the house, you know, sales conferences and events, reservations really had a blast.

00:07:30
Yeah. But then as one of the, you know, 2008, I think it’s when the big recession kind of hit also that industry quite a lot.

00:07:38
It also coincided, you know, with personal things where I just felt it was the time to make a change. Yeah.

00:07:45
But I can only imagine how well this industry prepared you for the job you were right now, right? Yes, absolutely.

00:07:52
I still feel there’s so much that I take away or that I kind of put in the backpack from back then that really helps me today.

00:08:03
And then, of course, you know, some of the other roles that led me to where I am today. But it’s definitely a great learning school. Yeah.

00:08:12
And then you started to work for IKEA. I mean, everyone is familiar with this brand and I know everyone has at least one piece of furniture from you guys out there, probably.

00:08:21
I hope so.

00:08:23
And we’re going to find out what your favorite part is actually in this huge portfolio.

00:08:29
You were in various functions. Maybe you want to share a little bit about your journey before you started to work in the CEO office, right?

00:08:35
Yeah. Yeah. So as I said, I joined about 11 years ago and I started… I don’t think I fully realized when I entered the recruitment procedure at which level I was being recruited into because I ended up supporting the global sustainability chief and HR chief, which we call people and culture.

00:08:57
Of course, having quite big scopes to their roles at a global organization.

00:09:04
And I always thought entering at that level was such a crash course and gave such a holistic view of the company straight away, again, which benefits me today tremendously. But also supporting two leaders allowed me to have a unique seat in the business because I was also in a way sometimes the bridge in between these two staff functions and really encouraging kind of cross-functional working.

00:09:33
So that was really what I took away from that and had a lot of fun supporting two very different leaders as well. One of them actually happened to be German as well. The HR or the sustainability? The HR chief.

00:09:51
And she had been with IKEA for many years, really embodied the culture and values. And the other chief for sustainability had been in external recruitment, had started not that long before I joined his team. Lovely Brit.

00:10:06
But a very different character had also been used to having had support in his team. So I had one leader that really wanted to do everything herself, was used to doing things in a certain way. And the other person really always having had the luxury of having a support or an assistant. It was very interesting to balance those two characters.

00:10:29
And again, learned a lot.

00:10:31
And you know what is funny? I always wanted to work for a people and culture manager, but it just never happened in my career.

00:10:38
You know, there are certain fields that interest you. For example, I always said to myself, I never want to work for a CFO. I’m just not into numbers. It’s not me, you know, sitting over Excel sheets. So I really wanted to go into the culture, into also the employer branding and all the things. So any specific learnings you took out of this time?

00:11:00
Yeah, what really inspired me at that time is that we were working a lot with our equality agenda, which is very exciting for me where I had a lot of passion. So it was also in that sense a way for me to learn about, you know, the topics of equality and diversity and inclusion and be involved with projects there.

00:11:18
I actually took the other route. So I very much had an interest for the sustainability part of the business as well, as it was really in a time where it was still quite a new topic and companies were really

00:11:31
finding out what their strategies and ambitions should be. So after I went on maternity leave, we decided to kind of change the setup slightly, actually recruit my temp cover, my maternity cover. So she came on board as well. And I then devoted myself, you could say, to the sustainability staff function, which, as we mentioned, I had no background in sustainability whatsoever. So, again, learned so many things.

00:11:59
You know, got so much in-depth knowledge from being able to have that experience.

00:12:05
How did you how did you grab the knowledge? I mean, what kind of learner are you? Are you more into visual? Are you more the podcaster? Are you more into I need to have a specific book on my nightstand going on conferences? So what are the learning strategy you have?

00:12:19
Yeah, as I experienced in the hotel industry, it was very much by doing or by almost, I would say, by practicing. It was also, I listened a lot to the talks, for example, the leader I supported at that time, our chief sustainability officer would have. And at one point, I felt I could dream his speeches. You could wake me up in the night and just say, go, and I would have his narrative top of mind. And of course, with that comes, I would say, a more…

00:12:49
comfortable level with the topic and the content, and then really seizing opportunities to… I volunteered for organizing, for example, the Matrix meeting for his entire Matrix sitting out in the IKEA retail organizations and countries at the time. And

00:13:08
Of course, being the project leader, the project manager for that also exposes you to the content, right? So it’s you’re doing one thing that you know how to do well and contributing with your strengths, but then having these benefits of learning a lot of new things in the same time. And for me, that was really listening to people, asking questions to really get that information, but that also paying attention to reports that we were putting out on certain topics or white papers was really kind of my go-to.

00:13:39
Yeah. And honestly, I know that you’re into also assistant networks and how can we bring them in organization? I know that’s also one of your topics that you’re currently engaged to. And I believe that these things around sustainability, diversity, inclusion, you named it. they need to be also addressed in these assistant networks. I think we still need to be better here because I work with a lot of customers who’ve been establishing these networks. But of course, it’s all about training and it’s all about creating

00:14:12
the new way that our profession should look like. But especially when we talk about training, it needs to be included, right? Microsoft was just running a wonderful inclusion conference and I’ve been sending assistants out there and said, you need to be there. Listen to that and find out how you can support your organization. Anything you want to add to that thought? Yeah.

00:14:32
Yeah, I would say what’s always been, especially, I guess, where I’m at today, there’s a lot of business intelligence that crosses your desk as well. So also to take advantage and by reading what you can and what passes your inbox has always greatly benefited me on any topic. And then also knowing where…

00:14:53
where you naturally gravitate towards what naturally, as you said, for you, it might’ve been people in culture, maybe for me it was sustainability. For others, it might be something else. It might be the CFO area. Absolutely. But to seize those opportunities to…

00:15:07
you know, do a bit of self-learning where you can kind of on the job as it crosses your desk. I’ve always found and still do, you know, gives me a very good kind of pulse of where we’re at as a business.

00:15:18
Yes. And, you know, we need to have these sidekicks in our assistance roles, like where we feel like strongly connected to something specific, you know, running this project or being involved in this initiative. And I know sometimes it’s not easy with our busy lives. And especially when we are connected to a lot of admin org people, stuff and travels and um yeah probably exactly what you experience every single day as well uh working for a busy executive but um nowadays since we talk about is it the right time to move away from the generalist to the specialist and we had this talk in our training um to find these little sidekicks and for sure the topics we just mentioned are very very interesting and take a deeper dive into these these fields right absolutely

00:16:03
Yeah, I always felt that being a generalist really benefited me.

00:16:07
But then having something where I had… Now in my role today, for example, it’s really for me around… helping my leader manage his external network, for example. And that has been something that has been with me for many, many years, supporting other leaders. But it’s also where I dare to say today, I have developed a specialism. So both having, you know, kind of that generalist role, but then also finding kind of a sweet spot that where you also feel like you excel or it’s something that really makes you tick.

00:16:38
that kind of gives you that kind of, you know, the butterflies in the stomach or that extra energy, I think is really important. Also to keep things interesting, right? In jobs that can sometimes, you know, be somewhat repetitive or, you know, have an annual year cycle that if you do it for many, many years in a row, some of the

00:16:59
you know, some of the excitement might go out of that.

00:17:01
Yeah, fully agree, fully agree to that. And I think we continue to have this discussion in our industry about generalist or specialist and what kind of specialist, right? What kind of expert do I want to be? So it’s good to see that a lot of assistants are discovering this path for them, whatever direction it might lead them. But at the end of the day, it’s

00:17:24
Yeah, it’s our own vision. It’s our own feeling how I see my role and how I can contribute to the success of my manager, my team, and overall the organization, of course. Absolutely. I know that you are a great contributor to the success of your current leader. who is no other than the CEO of the Inka Group, which is IKEA. And it is Jesper Brodine. And I would love to get to know a little bit, of course, about how you work together. First of all, how did you end up in the CEO office? Were you headhunted or internally?

00:17:59
Or was there any specific… I should humbly say he handpicked me. I was at the time… It may be an interesting story for the community. At the time, I was with our group communications working with the public affairs team around this topic of stakeholder engagement.

00:18:20
At the same time as I had started in that role, he started his tenure as a CEO and had a different profile than the one he succeeded and was…

00:18:31
He really wanted to engage externally and have that as part of his kind of time allocation. And as he was exploring that agenda, he kept popping onto my desk for a variety of things.

00:18:46
And we then had the opportunity to work together on a couple of different occasions. And after, I don’t know, times X, he just approached me and he said, listen, this works really well. I actually miss this capability in my team today. I would love to have you as part of my team as we further develop this agenda. And again, I was able to do it from this lovely office in Leiden, close to home, and I almost immediately said yes.

00:19:16
Of course, I felt very proud also and humbled by the opportunity.

00:19:21
And I know that you have incredible people next to you in order to manage the CEO office. Maybe you want to share a little bit about the team behind Jesper.

00:19:32
I’m so curious also to how other CEO support teams set themselves up.

00:19:39
And I also feel our setup is, I would say, our setup is quite moderate maybe for his scope. So he oversees three businesses, as we said, IKEA Retail being the core business, and then there’s two other branches.

00:19:53
That roughly makes up 175,000 co-workers. And in our little team, we’re a team of three. And then, of course, we work together with many, many friends across the businesses.

00:20:05
We have, if I try to simplify, we have a strategic… A strategic assistant, who I would say is more with him on strategic topics, priorities, really driving those priorities internally within the business.

00:20:23
Then we have our business support assistant, who’s also brilliant. She’s more focused on the daily operations, on making sure that he has what he needs today and tomorrow, and his travels are booked. And we all know very, very well what falls into that scope. And as I said, then I kind of make up that little trio where there are certain decision making bodies like our board that I’m involved with, where I lead certain processes. And then I also have that big dimension of kind of assisting him, supporting him with his relationships and his stakeholder engagement there. which I do together with a colleague in group communication. So we work together hand in hand.

00:21:10
But yeah, that’s our setup. And I think we’ll talk about the assistance network in a bit because it’s been something that has recently kind of been added to my pleasure, to my delight, which is something also that we’re now trying to drive from within our team as well.

00:21:28
Absolutely. And I must say, I need to jump in into the stakeholder management because I believe it’s one of the core roles where assistants can really support their managers.

00:21:36
Absolutely.

00:21:37
Was it hard for you to get into it or would you say, no, that’s exactly how my earlier roles prepared me, actually, because I know how important a network is. I know how to engage with people coming from the hospitality industry. So was it easy for you to jump in?

00:21:52
I mean, it’s funny you make the connection back to the hotel and hospitality, because that’s exactly what I did. For me, this is so comparable to sales, but not really sales, but it still has a lot of those dimensions.

00:22:07
As we are a foundation-owned company, we have the luxury of not having to work with stockholders. So we’re not on the stock market. So that dimension had never really existed. And I’ve always felt because that component wasn’t there, it took us a while to understand the value of stakeholder engagement. Because it wasn’t something that perhaps came very natural to us as a company. So for me…

00:22:37
Raising the awareness about the value that stakeholder engagement can bring for an executive, for a leader, required a bit of an effort.

00:22:49
But of course, now that I found a sponsor who takes this very seriously and because of the place in the business he sits, I think that has really been a catalyst almost. Yes.

00:23:01
And then a great spot for me to also try and help other teams across our business to take the learnings. Because for us, we started with a blank piece of paper trying to figure out how to do this well, of course, taking inspiration from others.

00:23:15
But now I feel we’re at a spot today where there’s also a lot that we can then share internally with other leaders and their teams to further themselves. And I wholeheartedly agree that I see such a unique position for assistants and support teams to support their leaders. Because especially when you’re managing inboxes, it passes through your hands. And if you think about making… It’s all about making it more easy and more efficient for them. So if there’s… If you have an interest for this, and I think there’s lots you can take off of your leader’s plate by applying yourself there.

00:23:58
I agree. But still, assistants are fighting hard out there in order to get that seat at the table. Would you say that you have that seat at the table in order to make this role function in a way that you are satisfied as well?

00:24:11
Yeah, that’s definitely how it feels like to me.

00:24:16
I think a lot goes back to culture and values. We have very strong culture and values at IKEA.

00:24:23
I don’t feel like I have to fight for a seat at the table or to be taken seriously on this agenda. It might not always come first for people because all of us have conflicting priorities that we’re working with. But I feel over the years, as I have gathered my proof points as to why this is a benefit, not only to the leader I support, but also to the business, it kind of creates the business case itself almost. Yeah.

00:24:49
Absolutely. It’s so true. And we are part of that business case so much. We are. Sometimes we have to remind a few people about it, but in general, we’re in.

00:24:57
And ourselves. Exactly.

00:24:59
And also when it comes to imposter syndrome, like…

00:25:03
Do we have strong beliefs in ourselves? Do we have strong beliefs in order to place this idea at the management table? Because I’m sitting in that management meeting. And I remember when I was a junior assistant, of course, and I was not into my role that much, not much experience. I was not that experienced. That personality I am right back then what I am right now. But I had these thoughts in my head and I was too shy to bring it out. Right. And nowadays, of course, we encourage assistance as you do also when you talk to colleagues and when we bring new assistants on board and onboarding phases and everything. all this kind of opportunities, how we get to meet our colleagues. It’s just wonderful to see when they find their voice and when they bring their ideas out. Would you say that this was something that was natural to you or did you also learn to do that?

00:25:53
I go, it’s…

00:25:55
I have an interesting theory about this. I might be completely wrong, but I go back to my singing. So I started singing in a choir, in the church choir, actually. And I do believe I have seen headlines of a study somewhere that participating in that type of an activity, singing together with others, It’s a really important dimension in listening to others, but also making your own voice kind of count. And as that has been something that has been with me for obviously many years since then, and maybe my, you know, my being a Dutch native and being quite direct and sometimes a bit blunt has helped as well. I have…

00:26:36
And then I think upbringing might be something as well.

00:26:39
I’ve never found it particularly hard in expressing my opinions. And honestly, I feel it’s… And I’m very honest when I share my opinion. I think it’s one of my strengths. And it’s actually why I got handpicked for the job.

00:26:54
Mm-hmm.

00:26:54
Because I was very clear in my beliefs and my opinions. I will any day as well today, I will give my leader my honest opinion, my direct answer to something. And that might not always be something that might not be an agreeable, you know, it might not be that I’m agreeing with a viewpoint or an approach.

00:27:13
And then I always feel I can express that opinion. And then what the other person, you know, does with that input, it’s to them. Absolutely.

00:27:22
But no, I have to say, I mean, it’s been easy for me in that sense that it’s come quite natural. And I appreciate it might be something to really work on if it’s not something that comes natural for all. Maybe singing in a choir could help.

00:27:36
Honestly, I was just going to say this is the best tip ever.

00:27:40
So everyone join a choir.

00:27:42
Go out singing, you know, because indeed it might help you to, you know, also the way your body is moving and how you, you know, you position yourself. So actually, I think it’s a very, very good advice.

00:27:55
Yes.

00:27:56
So I’ve been stalking your LinkedIn profile. Yeah.

00:27:59
And there were quite some nice expressions in it, like spider in the web to your CEO, focusing on connecting the dots, strategic planning and coordination, as well as stakeholder management, stakeholder engagement, we talked earlier about it, and communication. So what ways of working and principles do you and your CEO have where you say, okay, this is us, this is how we operate, and there’s non-negotiables here in this direction or that direction?

00:28:25
Yeah.

00:28:27
We spoke about it in Berlin, right? Ways of working. And I thought you and Lucy had such great tips also to how to really shape that and to bring structure to that.

00:28:39
I’m a very structured person. So one of the things I really had to learn when working with my executive is going back to hotel industry, put myself in his shoes. What were his wishes? What were his needs? How did he prefer to engage with us as a team?

00:28:57
um you know we’ve come away i feel we’ve made some some tweaks along that way but today i would say we work as structured as possible but we also maintain a good level of flexibility and that all depends uh very much on what his day what his week is like and then we adapt to that um i would say some principles that we have in place is that we try to meet with him at least twice a year from a team development point of view. You know, a check-in, what’s working well, what’s not working, what should we stop, start, continue, basically.

00:29:36
um and then we try to meet him on a cycle as well when it comes to his i always call it kind of more strategic agenda planning so it’s not so much focusing on the day today but very much at kind of the big trends like this is what the year roughly is going to look like um and then um on top of that i meet him together with our comms um leader, a CEO comms leader, really connected to his more externally focused agenda. What’s coming up? What does he need? Do we need any of his decisions on things that we might want to add?

00:30:12
And then we try to have a weekly check-in, which could be as short as 15 minutes only when he’s maybe in a car or in transit. to kind of take the things that we cannot move without his input.

00:30:26
And for us today, that’s working really well. But I also remember sitting with so much frustration in the beginning where I was just in need, as Lucy and yourself also share, to have that structure, like, Monday morning call to kick off the week. And it’s just something that didn’t end up working for us, for him as a team. And the best thing I did was just embracing that and finding a way that did work. And sometimes it can take…

00:30:54
Take a bit of time to figure that out.

00:30:57
Absolutely.

00:30:58
And, you know, I mean, it’s a huge onboarding phase for both of you, right? And even if you knew each other and he handpicked you, but it’s still the new job for both of you, right? In order to come together with the other people in the team to know exactly who is responsible for which part and how do we… How do we reach our goals? Right. But one of the things that I was really fascinated with and I gave you that feedback earlier and because you’ve been raising great questions during the training and of course, sharing how you work and how the team works around the CEO role. And I was really fascinated when you said that once you started working for him, that you did this calendar audit. You analyzed how much time he spends on various topics. So why was this in your head? Why did you want to do it? And what, of course, was the outcome?

00:31:49
Was there any things you had to throw out or bring in? This was my inner geek, my inner Excel geek coming to full bloom.

00:32:01
I came really with curiosity. I was coming into that role and into that team. I was just so curious how he was spending his time.

00:32:11
Also, because I felt like I needed to understand that to identify where I might be able to contribute to what he was doing.

00:32:20
So, yes, we embarked on an audit and I basically mapped and tracked the way he was spending his time for a year. I wish I would have had a very cool automated way to do that.

00:32:35
I pretty much did it very manually through just keeping hours per week in Excel. And it took quite some efforts and investment, but it totally paid off in the end. Because as I did that, I must be honest, I might not have completed a full 12 months because after, I would say, a couple months, the trends already started to become clear.

00:33:00
And then we had hard data and we identified kind of buckets where he was spending his time. We were able to cluster them. And we then had something that we were able to present to him and say, this is how you’re spending your time. And is this how you want to be spending your time?

00:33:19
And he absolutely loved that exercise. Also because it was very concrete, right? It was built on hard data. Effects and figures. Here we go. Effects and figures.

00:33:31
And also, this is where I feel I have to make the point also where we as assistants have…

00:33:37
It’s not my quote, it’s totally somebody else’s. I don’t know who it is, but somebody referred to assistance as asset managers, managing the most valuable asset a company and a leader has, which is their time. That’s also very much what led me to this exercise.

00:33:55
Yeah, the conclusion that came from that was that we were able to have that conversation. This is working well. Yes, this is totally where I should be spending my time. Oh, is it that much time that I’m spending on this? Well, let’s bring that down for next year. And that gave us a blueprint to continue to do yearly planning on. And we still use it today. Very good. And I think it also… Besides…

00:34:21
doing, you know, being very practical and giving that hard data. It also built a lot of trust with him because he knew that we had done this exercise. We, you know, totally understood what he was trying to do. So, and I think we, we went above expectations by, by doing this type of an exercise and, and, that I think that was a nice feeling for us as a team as well.

00:34:44
It also, that conversation really helped us actually when you mentioned the non-negotiables before that really also allowed us to have that conversation with him. Like, well, what is, you know, what are the non-negotiables? What can’t we touch? And we landed on work alone time, really carving out work or time for him to, to either fill himself or to, you know, for him to really sit and, and, and work alone and,

00:35:09
You know, lock yourself away. Exactly. Lock yourself in a dark room, you know. And of course, you know, that time is very… We have a principle on it where it’s we as his team are not able to touch it. If he wants to offer it to somebody, that’s for him to decide.

00:35:29
We might come with an ask to him. But oftentimes, the answer is no. I’m not compromising that time. And I think that’s also… Very commendable to him, you know, we’re really sticking to that principle. Yes, absolutely. And that helps us a lot. But that was one of the very obvious, among the others that I mentioned, but outcomes of that work. And the fact that we now have that blueprint to work with every year is just so…

00:35:56
And honestly, it’s such a fantastic advice. And I’m glad you share this story here with all of us again, because calendar auditing is, I know, a lot of work. But once you have your data and you know exactly how can I really take the direction in order to make my executive more productive in this way or in that way. And this is where the magic happens, right? As you said, the greatest gifts come. we have for our executives is time. The moment we can allow this in the busy schedule, then you know exactly that you brought the right dots together, right? In order that you agreed, this is necessary, this is not necessary, this is productive, this is not productive. Let’s skip this one, but give room to that one. And then we have our agenda. And that’s a constant process. So I’m sure that many of our listeners are really… noting this down in order, did I ever do this properly? And maybe I should do it because it will really, really help us to increase the productivity, right?

00:36:54
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

00:36:56
So I know, I know, yes, do it.

00:36:59
So I know that you and the team are working very hard about, you know, reaching the goals of your executive team.

00:37:06
to make your CEO successful. But I want to talk about your goals as well, because I know that you have specific goals and you are structured and you want to work on your goals. So when you look at the year 2023, and we’re jumping into March already. So what is on your bucket list for this year?

00:37:25
Yeah, we mentioned the stakeholder engagement part of my role. One of the goals I set towards that was really to become a super user in a system that we use. I’m a geek in this area. I love figuring new systems out. So it’s also I have so much fun while I’m doing that.

00:37:43
But I would say the biggie for me is the assistant network that we talked about a little bit already. And especially at… at a company like IKEA who really encourage the entrepreneurial spirit. It’s so fun to be able to kind of identify a gap that I believe is there and then to be able to run with it. So my big goal for the year is to really kind of move the needle with our assistance network. And we kind of started last year in a small group across our management, the support teams to our management team. But we’ve also established a bigger group of assistants and basically everybody in an administrative professional role across the company to bring us together to honestly also figure out together what we want this network to be and how it can benefit us.

00:38:34
And some very obvious themes like onboarding and sharing best practice, etc. already bubbled up.

00:38:46
forward.

00:38:48
But to be honest, I feel that work really required somebody to step up as a community manager. And I was very, I don’t know, that felt like such a big thing to also kind of take that on and to connect myself to that. But I had such lovely encouragement from across the community that i decided to just be brave and step up but also be very honest about i don’t have all the answers for us it’s not about me you know saying this is where we’re going it’s more about you know what do we want this to be collectively and how is each of us kind of showing up within the network to um uh to to make it valuable for all of us of course what are the roles what are the expectations how often do we come

00:39:34
together? What tools are we going to use? I mean, I can only imagine the list you have together with your team, you know, slightly starting ticking the boxes because it’s a project, a huge project itself. And of course, you know, next to the busy, busy life you have, not only within the company, because we also know that you have a pretty busy personal life. We’re going to share a little bit about it. you’ve shared the music part already, but there’s more to hear from. But I can only imagine that this is really a fun project because it will really, really help you to identify the needs from all the stakeholders being involved. Not only the assistants, but also the managers, the departments that you’re interacting with and a lot of interactions are happening every single day between assistants and the department.

00:40:26
So I always find it interesting when this all starts off and you get to know your peers in a different way, right? So it’s a great project. And of course, we wish you all the best success with it. Thank you. So maybe we should do this again in a year and let’s see.

00:40:43
Let’s do a check-in. Here we are.

00:40:45
Let’s see. There’s the network. Because I know that it’s a huge topic for many companies out there. And we have great companies with really long existing networks who started just like you, right? Yeah.

00:40:59
I’m excited to see where it leads us. You have to start somewhere. But I’d love to check in a couple months from now to see where it leads us.

00:41:08
We definitely will do that. So I must say…

00:41:14
Keeping the balance is not always easy in our busy, busy lives as an assistant, as we are so connected to so many different people. We want to help. We want to be there. And sometimes we forget to put ourselves on the priority list. So how do you manage your working and your private life? I know you’re a mom. You have your hobbies. You enjoy other things in life.

00:41:38
So how do you take care of yourself? Is there a specific method you do?

00:41:43
So my first answer here is I’m nowhere without the support system that I have around me. And that’s, of course, my partner and having our parents close by who really play a big role. I mean, that support…

00:42:02
is immediately linked to my performance at work.

00:42:06
And for me, that has been also working in an environment where I see people moving with their families for roles, which

00:42:16
can be very exciting, right? And be an amazing experience for the whole family. It was something where I felt it was too far out of my comfort zone. I just felt that being in, you know, in another country without that support system around me, I would feel I wouldn’t be able to perform in the way that I would want to. So it’s been quite a conscious decision. And I’m so thankful to them what opportunities, you know, still came to me because I remember sitting with a fear that, you know, which doors and windows am I closing with kind of, you know, having this as a prerequisite?

00:42:50
Um, no, but it’s very, it’s, it’s very important to have, have a system like that around you and that can look very differently. Right. But I think organizing yourself and the way that you kind of, you know, set that up is, is for me at least a very important prerequisite to try. And, uh, uh, I would say it’s not really maintaining the balance, but it’s, It’s like you have this anecdote about the, you know, the, I don’t know, the circus artist, right? How do you call one of these thin ropes? It’s like that person is never, ever completely in balance. It’s like they’re constantly working to keep that balance, so it maintains. something to for me to focus on almost daily and also I think just accepting that you cannot have it all and you’ll miss out on certain things either in private life or at work or in other dimensions

00:43:43
And be very real and honest about that.

00:43:48
And that can sometimes also, you know, that can come with disappointment. And just to be honest about that disappointment and, you know, not keeping up appearances. That’s also very much, I think for me, just to be honest about what my situation is. And maybe that’s sometimes it’s harder than other days. It helps me to just…

00:44:08
Keep it very real. And yeah, we mentioned the singing now a couple of times, but it really helps having something outside of my work and my family that I’m very passionate about because it helps kind of draw me out of those circles and do something completely different every now and again.

00:44:28
So having something outside of that really helps me to just let go.

00:44:33
And it’s for sure one of your little energy islands out there, right?

00:44:37
Absolutely. Yeah.

00:44:38
So what kind of music? We’re dying to hear this. And how can we listen to it?

00:44:44
So, I mean, happy to do a pitch here. The band is called Lady July. You can find us on Instagram. Yeah.

00:44:57
It’s basically four guys and a girl, and we just love playing covers of covers, I would say. So it’s songs that you’ll recognize, but they are probably performed in a slightly different way than you might recognize them immediately, which adds to the element of surprise, which we enjoy.

00:45:19
Yeah, it’s very fun. It’s very, it’s lovely.

00:45:22
I mean, I definitely would love to share this in the show notes. I mean, we need to get more Instagram followers here. Cool. So definitely, we’re going to put this in the show notes, everyone. So you get to get to get more information about the band. So what is the music you’re listening to? I mean, if I would check your Spotify playlist at the moment, what’s on?

00:45:45
So we’re now rehearsing for a gig that’s coming up, which is 80s and 90s themed. So we’re going back.

00:45:53
Love it. We’re going back in the days. Oh, gosh. They’re such brilliant gems. And how do you say guilty pleasures? You know, they kind of stem from that time.

00:46:05
You know, I love… I have such a broad taste in music. I love everything from Adele to Beyonce, but also, you know, going to a bit of Americana and country. Yeah, as long as it’s music that kind of comes from the heart by artists, you know, you can never go wrong.

00:46:25
Yeah, that is true. Yeah, that is so, so true. And, you know, music is so important in life. I mean, imagine without music, you know, you go to the car, there’s music, you go to these wonderful places that we finally get to enjoy again, you know, after the pandemic. And so we go to concerts, we meet people, we enjoy going on gigs and meeting bands. And it’s just so important for people because music, It’s not an easy life we’re in right now, what’s happening out there in our world. And music has always been connecting people, right? Yes. Through culture, through languages. And it’s just so wonderful. And by the way, what would we…

00:47:04
I mean, I would not survive with one of my favorite apps on the phone with the Shazam app, you know, when you are listening to a song somewhere and you place the app out there and then you say, oh, yeah, that’s this song, right? So I always have this with me because I use it all the time. Very smart. Because I just feel like this is a great song.

00:47:26
Maybe I heard it before, but who’s the singer? What’s the band behind one of my favorite apps? I think they renamed the business, but Shazam was always the big name out there. So, yeah, I mean, I can only wish you all the best for the year 2023, not only for the business life.

00:47:46
Thank you. Which, of course, is going to bring you into wonderful new projects, but also the private life. Because let’s be honest, that’s the most enjoyable part out there, being connected with family, having friends in your life.

00:48:01
And we talked about the sun earlier. You said, I’m ready to go to the sun. So is there any specific holiday planning that the family made already this year?

00:48:11
Totally outside of my traditional character. We did not make summer plans yet.

00:48:20
I don’t know what summer is going to bring us. We recently redecorated or also actually extended the house. So being at home is very exciting because it still feels very new.

00:48:36
So who knows? Maybe if the Dutch summer is friendly to us, we might do a staycation.

00:48:44
But I agree with you. There’s so many different fabulous spots in the world to travel to. Maybe we take a trip here or there.

00:48:52
But honestly, I mean, staying in the Netherlands for sure is a treat as well because, you know, they have great beaches out there. I mean, everyone is familiar with Zandvoort, this area, of course, which is also not too far from you. And yeah, so you have really, really great place, of course, to enjoy your staycation. But speaking of the house, here’s the last question. And I know a lot of people are curious what she is going to answer now. I mean, I think I told you in the training that I’m a big fan of the Hemnes series. Yes, you did. And now, of course, we all want to know what is your favorite part at the…

00:49:28
Ikea portfolio. My favorite product.

00:49:33
And I might have mentioned this at the training as well, did I? It’s Hullbar. I don’t know if I pronounce it correctly in Swedish, but you’ll all know it. It’s the waste sorting system. You have all these different bins, you know, depending on what waste you’re recycling. And for me, it’s organization, time sustainability, lowering your carbon footprint. It makes it easier. It makes life more efficient. It’s at a pretty affordable price. So for me, a true champion of our vision, which is creating a better everyday life for the many people. Yeah, I highly recommend to have it in your home. It makes it so easy.

00:50:11
Yes. And, you know, we all need things that help us organize. We do. Organize, right? So here’s once again the recommendation to check out the IKEA portfolio.

00:50:23
Because, yeah, I’m actually sitting here in my Airbnb and IKEA desk.

00:50:28
Lovely. You tend to mind it quite a lot, right?

00:50:31
You immediately recognize it, you know, you immediately recognize it. It’s so funny. And I think specifically also the Airbnb business itself. So every time when we go there, we do travel a lot.

00:50:43
You really feel familiar when you, oh, that’s a cup from IKEA. Oh, that’s a glass from IKEA. So I think it’s well equipped everywhere in the Airbnbs. So I thank you so much for your time to talk to us and to share a little bit about your story, about you see the role, about the work you do.

00:51:04
and how you collaborate with your executive. So all the best to the team.

00:51:10
Continued success.

00:51:12
And thank you so much for being here and for coming to the show. I appreciate that. Thanks for having me. Take care. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

00:51:22
Well, I told you this is going to be a wonderful episode and I enjoyed it myself listening again to it. So thank you so much for stopping by, Heleen. I think this is just the beginning. I can’t wait to see what’s next coming from you. I will always support you, cheering from you. And yes, thank you so much for sharing all the valuable insights with all of us.

00:51:46
You’re listening to the Leader Assistant Podcast.

Go Burrows – Leader Assistant Resources

Ep 381: Ashley Langlais on Supporting the Goals of Your CEO

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Ep 380: Amber Youngren – Executive Assistant and Office Manager Lead at Forged Fiber 37

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Ep 379: Executive Office Insights Spotlight – A Conversation with Bilingual EA Paula Moio and Her Executive

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Ep 378: Former Personal Assistant to Archbishop Desmond Tutu – Atrayah Janhe

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Ep 377: James McPartland on Leading from Where You Are

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Ep 376: Diana Brandl Interviews Brian Daniel – Founder of The Celebrity Personal Assistant Network

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