Diana Brandl is a longtime C-Suite assistant, and host of the Executive Office Insights podcast. In this spotlight episode, Diana interviews Reggie Love – former Personal Aide to President Barack Obama.

The conversation features Reggie discussing his life, career, and time at the White House. He shares his background growing up in North Carolina and his path to working with Obama, emphasizing the importance of diversity and inclusion. He also offers leadership advice centered on passion, patience, and perspective (empathy), and tips for managing stress.

CONNECT WITH REGGIE

• Reggie on LinkedIn
• Reggie Love Website
• Reggie’s book – Power Forward: My Presidential Education

ABOUT REGGIE LOVE

Reggie Love is a New York Times best selling author of Power Forward: My Presidential Education, a collection of stories and lessons from his time in sports and politics. After serving as a personal aide to President Barack Obama from 2009-2011, Love earned his MBA from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and is currently a Senior Advisor at Apollo Global Management.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.

Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.

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TIMESTAMPS

00:00:00 – Introduction and Show Notes
00:00:50 – Meeting Reggie Love
00:01:22 – Reggie’s Role with President Obama
00:02:14 – Reggie’s Background and Career
00:04:36 – Growing Up in North Carolina
00:08:07 – Transition from White House to Corporate World
00:13:08 – Diversity and Inclusion
00:17:00 – First Day Working for Obama
00:21:04 – Challenges and Learning on the Job
00:26:22 – Empathy and Leadership
00:32:38 – Tips for Assistants on Leadership
00:36:11 – Coping with Stress and Relaxation Techniques
00:40:01 – Basketball and Favorite Teams
00:41:26 – The iReggie Story
00:44:16 – Current Music Preferences
00:45:44 – Plans and Reflections on North Carolina
00:47:32 – Closing Remarks and Gratitude
00:48:50 – Final Thoughts and Recommendations

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy: Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.

Jeremy: You can find all the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/371.

Diana: I’m very excited to share this interview with you. I got to know Reggie Love the first time a couple of years ago when I joined one of his talks, and I was super fascinated by his biography. And then my dear friend John Shaw introduced him to me as I was sharing my wish that I would love to do a podcast with him as well. So here we are, very thankful that Reggie gave me time out of his busy schedule to talk to me about his life, about his career. Of course, been asking quite some questions about the time he spent at the White House working as the personal aide to President Barack Obama from 2009 till 2011. He was responsible for assisting with the coordination to completion of the president’s daily schedule, as well as coordinating with other White House offices to set up long and medium range planning. But he has been working for Barack Obama already when he was a senator. So they have been a great team together for quite a while. And of course, he’s sharing some of those wonderful stories with all of us. I’m very honored to introduce the wonderful Reggie Love to you all. He’s now working as a senior advisor at Apollo Global Management. Please enjoy. Welcome everybody to the podcast, The Future Assistant, a podcast full of inspiration, encouragement, and empowerment for administrative professionals. Tune in, level up, and get motivated by the stories you are about to hear. All right, everybody. Very honored to be here today with someone who’s tuning in from D.C. Good morning, Reggie. How are you? And what time is it over there in D.C.?

Reggie: Good morning. It’s not too early. It’s only about 7.40 in the morning.

Reggie: Thanks for having me this morning, too.

Diana: Absolutely. So would you say you’re an early bird or always getting up early?

Reggie: Yeah, I think that I definitely am up early. I don’t know if it’s conditioning or if it’s like something that I don’t believe I was born that way. When I was in high school, I used to have to get up at 5.30 in the morning to be out of the house by 5.45 to beat the traffic to get to school because I went to school across town. And so if I left before six o’clock, I could get there and in 40 minutes. But if I left after six, it would take like an hour and a half. And so, it started in high school. And then when I was in college, we used to have summer workout or lifting sessions or conditioning session that would start before classes. And so like if your first class started at 730 or eight, like you usually were like in the track or in the gym by like six or seven. Um, and now it’s like, you know, uh, I, You know, it’s not as bad as not being able to sleep through the night. But, you know, I kind of wake up after five hours of sleep every day. But if I wanted to, I could go back to sleep. So that is the beauty of it.

Diana: Sounds good. I have to admit, I do have a hard time being an early bird sometimes. But yeah, it’s all about routines, right? Reggie, I’m very honored to have you on the show today. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself? Who’s Reggie?

Reggie: Yeah, I mean, I like to say that there’s a lot of narratives about me and some of them are a part of what has been written by press or by my former boss, Barack Obama. I think that some of the misconceptions are that I somehow was just like a great basketball player or somehow I was this deeply politically connected person that had worked for Obama for decades before he ever got to the US Senate. But for me, I’m just like a kid from the South. I grew up in North Carolina. You know, my parents, I like to say I won the parent lottery. My mom and dad, I’ve been together for almost 47 years. And, you know, I’ve got parents that have just really, you know, put a lot of love and prayer and effort into the development of me and my brother. You know, and I think for the, for the, for the most part, uh, I like to believe the biggest piece of it is that, you know, I just a kid that got, I got a lot out of the game of basketball. Uh, I never had the chance to, um, to really be a professional basketball player. Uh, but I feel like, you know, my, my closest friends, um, all come from, you know, either. AAU basketball, which I don’t, I’m not sure if that’s, it’s kind of like club soccer where you would see in Europe.

Diana: Exactly.

Reggie: Um, and so, uh, AAU basketball, uh, the teammates that I had in college, uh, playing at Duke and, and, and now as an adult, um, you know, some of my closest friends have, you know, are folks that I, I played basketball with on the campaign. Um, like Barack Obama and and guys that I still, you know, try to play basketball with now. Uh it’s been a little uh hard to get a good basketball game then uh because of COVID. Um but you know uh just a a kid who who grew up loving the game and uh I always joke uh that I never got a chance to um play professionally, but I got so much out of the game because, you know, here in the United States, you know, school’s really expensive, right? So, I mean, we pay like roughly, you know, if you go to like a non-state sponsored school, you know, you’ll pay about 50 to 60,000 bucks a year for a four-year degree. And so, you know, I got into a really good school, I got it paid for, and I got to, you know, build you know, a relationship with the leader of the free world through, mostly through the game of basketball. So, you know, that’s kind of me in a nutshell. I’m at a network for Apollo Global Management, which is a large private equity shop out of New York that’s focused on sort of traditional private equity and credit in the alternative investment space. I’m a senior advisor there now. And yeah, and I think, and I’ve been there for about two years and have been focused on a lot of the issues around human capital, diversity, equity, inclusion, and government affairs.

Diana: So how was the transition actually coming from the Obama administration going back into the corporate world? Was it hard for you or was it just a nice change? Did you enjoy it?

Reggie: The irony for me is that, one, I had not really worked in the corporate world before leaving the White House in 2012. I came to D.C. right when I got out of college, and I think I had in my mind that I was going to go work for a bank. But when I was In the period in time in which I was waiting for the job to start and the training program to start, I was actually thinking about going to Goldman Sachs. I found myself in Washington, D.C. at the suggestion of my mother, who had said, why don’t you get an internship or do something productive with your time? Until the job starts, I had just left Dallas, where I’d been playing outside linebacker for the Dallas Cowboys. And so my mom kind of felt like, you know, I was too young to be retired and too young to be playing golf every day in North Carolina. And so I went to D.C. A friend of mine, Sean Richardson, was the chief of staff for then for Patrick Kennedy, who was the junior. I was a senior congressman from from Rhode Island. And He knew Mindy Myers, who lived in the basement of Pete Rouse. And Pete was the chief of staff for Barack Obama at the time. But, you know, Pete was sort of a statesman of the U.S. Senate. He was kind of known as the 101st senator. He had been the chief of staff to Tom Daschle when Tom Daschle was the majority leader in the Senate. And when I came to D.C. to interview for, you know, a staff position, a staff assistant position, you know, I kind of fell in love with, with DC and, and, you know, one of the things I kind of really recognized in DC at that time was that, you know, you know, Barack Obama was the only African American senator, so one of 100. So, he represented 1% of the US Senate as a person of color. And as you looked at the staffs of these members, they looked very much like the member. And so you had really you had a dearth, a lack of diversity on the staff level. And my general assumption was, you know, how do you have a political system that works for all people if the people that, you know, are in representative government don’t, you know, look like the people that they represent or trying to represent it? And so and really, that was like one of the the factors that kind of drove me to wanting to, to spend the time that I’ve spent in Washington DC because, you know, When policies don’t work, they often have a multiplier effect on those people who have less access to capital, right? And so if I live in a neighborhood where, you know, my school’s a little run down and my budget for that school was a little skewed because the property taxes are lower or, you know, they haven’t gotten around to updating the school. If I have access to capital, I can easily put my kid in a car, send them across town to an independent school or a private school or some parochial school. Whereas if I don’t have access to capital, I’m stuck with whatever mobility options are in front of me. And so if someone doesn’t have that perspective or recognize it, and I don’t know if this is a thing in Germany, but here in the US, you’ve got these massive disparity gaps between wealth and between income as you sort of segment the population between white, black, Hispanic, Asian, and African-Americans. You know, historically have sort of have skewed toward the lower or towards the higher gap and sort of the lowest. income levels and the lowest wealth level. So I think that that was one of the things I noticed at an early age. And I laugh about it all the time. And no one’s really going to understand this phrase. But when I grew up in Charlotte, and I just mentioned my parents, and I’ve got two phenomenal parents, but my parents never really made a bunch of money. They kind of were You know, they made like they were, you know, middle income kind of families. My dad worked for the government. He worked for the Office of Social Security, which is sort of like a, you know, like a benefits office. And so they were responsible for paying uh, out, uh, payments to individuals who had either disabilities or who had retired and had sort of paid into the social security program for years and sort of now retire, um, eligible for these benefits. And so my dad and mom, um, you know, they, I grew up feeling like we were wealthy and, and I mentioned that school that I used to drive across town to go to, which was an independent school called Providence day. a great high school, but at that point in time, cost more than what my family could really afford. I think now it costs about $26,000 a year for high school. And I was lucky enough to go to the school. Now, we did not pay full tuition. The biggest tax was probably having to get there. But the thing that I realized was that, you know, there, there was so much more opportunity and so much more. Well, on the other side of town and, you know, and I told my friends I was like, I didn’t realize that. that I didn’t have much until I got to Providence Day. And it’s funny because I had said to myself, you know, how do so many people have so much stuff and none of them play for the Hornets? And the Hornets were the professional team in town at the time. Because I kind of grew up thinking like, you know, you only really got to be wealthy if you were, you know, an entertainer or an actor or an athlete or whatever. sort of the community that I grew up in. So, yeah.

Diana: Such great information you’re sharing with us already, Reggie. Thankful for that, giving some insights how you grew up and what was important for you back then. And I’m glad you’re bringing already the topic about diversity and inclusion because this is the number one topic that needs to be on the agenda everywhere. And I’m glad to see that a lot of assistants are out there pushing this topic, bringing it on the agenda when they talk to their executives, when they talk to their HR people, what impact they might have in an organization. Because it’s a topic that needs to be addressed from all levels in an organization, not only from the management, but from all levels. So I’m glad to see that when I speak to assistants, not only in the big corporates, but everywhere out there, who say, this is really important for me, and I really want to have a voice when it comes to diversity and inclusion. So thank you so much for bringing this topic already, because it’s so relevant. Looking back at the time with the Obama administration, you held various functions and one of them was the personal assistant to the former president. So do you remember how the first day was when you actually started working for him? How was it like? Any nervousness in you or was it just like, hey, that’s my job and I’m going to be good at this? And it’s just an executive for me, right? It’s just how I see it, maybe. How was it? Do you remember the feeling back then?

Reggie: Yeah, I mean, look, I’d say there were kind of really sort of three phases for me in which I sort of went into sort of a new version of a role. And all of those roles were, in theory, working for then either Senator Obama or President Obama. And when he was a junior senator from Illinois, I remember the day that I started there. My friends give me a hard time because I think the night before, I laid out the suit that I was going to wear, and I had ironed the shirt, and I had shined my little Cole Haan shoes. And I remember that day vividly because it was such an eye-opening experience. And I got the chance to meet so many different people on the Obama team. And the thing that I had recognized is that he had brought together such a diverse and talented group of people to work for him when he was a junior senator from the state of Illinois. And then I remember the day in which, you know, the campaign began and I was his special assistant or body guy or whatever people refer to it as and, you know, and, and for the most part. You know, it was extremely stressful, not because of the task of the job, but really the uncertainty. You know, there’s no manual, there’s no, you know, script to follow. You know, you really are just sort of reading and reacting in terms of what is working and what is not working. And I think that sometimes it’s hard because you know, you’ll do things that don’t work, right? And not to any fault to yourself, but you know, you don’t have all the information, you don’t have all the the context to be able to make decisions that in theory are always valuable to the candidate or to then Senator Obama, because you’re young or I was young and I did not know a whole hell of a lot. And I think that that was a little bit terrifying. mainly because in life we all spend time like training, preparing, you know, especially like in sports or in school where you’ve gone through this organization or this team or this class and you now are like the king of the hill and you’ve mastered it, right? And to then be thrown into a place where you’re now no longer at the top of the hill you actually have very little relevant context or information because you have not had those experiences, those specific experiences to give it to you. And so I think that that is a challenging place to be in, but it’s humbling. And I think if you have an open mind and an open heart and If you are willing to be vulnerable. I think you’re able to really grow in those roles in an effective manner. I think a lot of that comes from the concept of like you know, uh, eating a piece of humble pie and saying, Hey, sir, you know, look, I know that you just explained this to me, but I have no idea what you were talking about right now. Could you just give me a little bit more context? Um, and, and I think that that is often a hard thing to do, but I think especially as a man in the United States, uh, to kind of, um, to come back and to say, you know, Hey, look, I don’t have the answer right now, but I’m gonna, I will go down and I’ll track it down for you. And that actually was what a lot of the job was for the first few weeks was what was, let me get back to you on that. I’m going to have to go do some research.

Diana: Yes, absolutely. Speaking of like having a routine and this job is almost impossible, I believe, right? Like, okay, kind of planning the day, but then they’re going to be a lot of things mixed up, right?

Reggie: Yeah. And I remember when when Obama was first, the first couple of days in the White House, President Obama and I, he would ask me these questions about stuff. And one day there was this big envelope on my chair and outside of the Oval Office and it was 50 pages and it was a bill for like $30,000. And I was like, And I’m like, going through the bill and I’m like, I’m so confused as to what it is. And so I just, I pick up the phone and the guy who had the job, who had my job for President Bush, ironically went to Duke, a guy by the name of Jared Weinstein is a great young man. He’s a couple of years older than I was. And at that point in time, he was at Stanford Business School. And I called him and I said, hey, the admiral just dropped off this bill here. And he said, well, how much is it? I said, it’s like $30,000. And he goes, yeah, that’s about what it was for the Bushes when they were at the White House every month. And I was like, oh, that’s helpful.

Diana: Oh, that’s so funny indeed. But I’m glad you had a good network, right? To reach out and ask for like, okay, what’s this here? So I must say, I’m really enjoying the book Barack Obama wrote. And I saw your name in there quite a few times, along with some pictures, playing basketball, being on the road, of course. And in the book, I read that he calls you his little brother. So what did you actually enjoy the most while working for him? And where did this name come from?

Reggie: Yeah. So not to plug the book, but I did. I listened to the book on audio. I thought it was well read, enjoyed every minute of it and definitely was like a trip down memory lane on some really some some great quote unquote adventures. I think like I think when you spend so much time with someone, two straight years on a presidential campaign, three years in the White House, it’s almost like Stockholm syndrome. And once you start to identify with your capture. And I’d say for me, look, I’d say the job of working for Barack Obama as a special assistant and personal aide, I think was, a couple of things. It did not require, um, you know, a PhD in neuroscience. Right. Um, but it, it did require, you know, a lot of patients, a lot of empathy, uh, and, and the ability to, to, to pick up information and involve and to, um, into learning grow. And I think for me at that point in time in my life, I think it was a, a very important, um, uh, growth experience for me. Um, you know, I think that, you know, I, I very much, uh, did not have the ability to, uh, to be empathetic. I don’t think I was very good at, um, really, um, taking in specific moments. You know, I think when you’re young, you’re always thinking about next play, next play. I think I learned the ability to, you know, to really to pause, take a beat, self-assess, reassess, really think about what is happening at that point in time and less from an emotional point of view and more from a realistic point of view. And then I think I think the biggest piece is that in this evolution, I got to see the country and the world. And I’d say that was really important for me, especially in this point in time in which we feel like the world is so split and so bipartisan right now. And so I mentioned that because you know, what you find as you look across this country and the world is that everyone kind of cares about the same thing, right? Like they want to have an opportunity to work and make an affordable wage. You know, they want to be able to put food on the table. They want to be able to have healthcare. They may want to be able to take a vacation, you know, and retire with dignity. And, you know, and it didn’t really matter, like, the country, the language, the color of the state, you found those things to be pretty true everywhere around the world. And I think those things, like, give me a lot of hope when I think about how divided we kind of express the world to be today. And I don’t believe that those divisions are as big as they are. But I do think, you know, as we talked about earlier on the show, I do think a lot of these challenges are driven by, you know, income inequality and access. And so and and we as a country and we as leaders need to think about, you know, how to make sure that people have enough to be hopeful and to believe that, you know, the German experiment, the American experiment, the EU experiment, you know, is something that’s worth buying into. And that is something that, you know, if abided by, will create, you know, opportunity for individuals and for their families and their communities. And so I do think that that was the biggest thing that I learned. on the process. And then I think what I learned specifically from him was empathy and always being able to think about, you know, not only from a campaigning, fundraising, policy point of view. But just in terms of as we think about the conversations that we’re in in our day-to-day grind, where is someone else coming from? And how is the world impacting them? And why is it not necessarily trying to validate why people feel the way they may feel, but trying to understand the root causes that have created those feelings. And so I tell the story, you know, I remember when, and I’m not sure if the listeners on this podcast are old enough to remember, but the last crash in 2008, and eight and nine, right when Barack Obama had won the 2008 election, we’d come in and we had the housing crisis, we had the automobile crisis. And while campaigning for president, he was having a bunch of calls with President Bush And they were trying to pass what was now known as TARP, which is the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which was a federal stimulus package to help save the baking industry. And I had said to him, because, you know, we’re, you know, I remember we were in San Francisco, we were just driving across the Bay Bridge. And, you know, this is a third call he’s had with President Bush that day. And, you know, what was a true bipartisan effort during the middle of a presidential campaign with the Republican president to try to come up with bipartisan support for this bill? And I had said to him, you know, look, sir, I’m confused because, you know, if you were president, Um, I don’t believe the Republicans would work, uh, this hard, uh, to try to get something passed. Um, and especially before the election, you know, like in theory, like if nothing gets passed, wouldn’t it be really good for you and this campaign, which you’ve been campaigning for, for the last 20 months, uh, for us, for there not to be a TARP. And he said, you know, Reggie, like, I think it’s a great question. You know, I understand why you think such a thing. And I don’t believe that your your inclination are wrong. But I think what you have not really taken into consideration is who are all the people that would be impacted if TARP does not pass. You know, it may as a whole hurt my chance to become president. of the United States, but it’ll be a hell of a lot painful for all those other individuals who lose access to banking services, payroll services, if we go and spiral into a great depression. And those people who will be most impacted by it will have not been the individuals who were the root cause. And so if that in itself changes the odds of me becoming president.

Reggie: He’s it was like it’s more than worth it. Worth it. And and I don’t think that. many people have the ability to be that empathetic when it comes to other people. And to see it at that level kind of sort of lets, always reminds me that, you know, as tough as I may have it, there’s always someone who may have it a little bit tougher. And so we can never not be empathetic because true impact is what happens to the entire community, not just what happens within your own tribe or your own household.

Diana: Right. And it’s such a wonderful story. And I always say, for me, great leaders, they show empathy. They show emotional intelligence in many ways. It’s not only the technical skills that they bring to the table, but so many other important values are connected to empathy, of course. And you just gave a wonderful example And actually, speaking about leadership, in your speaking engagements, you talk about leadership. And this is a topic that, of course, is relevant for many assistants as well. So when you think of high pressure, tight deadlines, multiple executives, and so much more, the gatekeeper position is not always an easy one, for sure. So what would you say? What are your top tips out there for our audience?

Reggie: Yeah, look, I’d say, you know, not to be corny. I usually I usually talk about passion and patience and perspective and perspective really kind of feels like empathy. And but I think why passion and patience are important, you know, I think and I learned this probably in college. Right. you know, everyone wants to win a national championship. And we were lucky enough my freshman year to, to win a championship. And, and the thing that you often find out is that like, you don’t win the NCAA tournament is played in, in, uh, in March every year, this thing called March madness is a big American to do. And, uh, but in actuality, even though those games are played in March, um, the preparation and the training to be prepared to win those games they happen, you know, a year before that the summer before. And so, and so why I say patience is, you know, oftentimes you’re gonna have to do a lot of work that will not bear immediate fruit or not give sort of immediate gratification but ultimately will be helpful over time. And so you kind of have to be patient about how you do the work. And, you know, you know, what do they say? Work as hard as you would when no one’s watching as if someone were watching. And and and don’t let the immediate things that are sort of don’t let the lack of immediate gratification have an impact on how much effort you put into the work that you do. Yeah. And I think that takes a lot of patience to be able to execute on that. And then I say passion. No, I think that like, you have to sort of believe in the organization and the people that you work for, and that they want to, you know, do something that’s really aligned to the things that you care about. Because, you know, work is hard. And if you don’t have that passion, if you don’t, if you’re not, if you don’t believe the thing that you’re doing, or the widgets, or the cogs, or the policy, or the message that’s being created. I think it can be challenging to get through those valleys. And so I think you’ve got to be excited and really believe that even if the work that you are doing is small, impact of the team and of the organization is worthwhile. That finding the New York Times while you’re traveling through Keene, New Hampshire at 6am in the morning will have an impact on you know, who is the leader of the free world and, you know, whether or not there’s health care. Hard to see those things being correlated, but, you know, I think you got to make those correlations and be excited about those things.

Diana: Yeah, I love that. Absolutely. Fully agree with you and have a passion for what you do. And a lot of assistants do have passion for their roles. And the past year for sure was not an easy one. We are still in the pandemic. And not only assistants were affected, but many assistants were affected. And they do have a hard time, you know, coping with the stress, coping all of a sudden working from home in the remote workplace. So when we talk about pressure and the things that come with a pandemic, of course, how do you think, maybe some of the, well, I would say examples you want to share with us, maybe from your past job, when you cope with stress, traveling a lot, being, you know, availability 24-7 in such a role probably. So any ideas what you want to share with our audience in terms of how did you relax playing basketball for sure I’m sure but any other tips you want to give out where you say this helped me a lot maybe going into reflection mode. meditation, whatever is out there. Because for me, I do meditate. It helps me, especially going through a tough week. I always start meditating in the morning, just to prepare myself to start the day. And I also reflect after I finish the day in order to be grateful for another day with all the highlights and the lowlights. So what did I do in order to relax?

Reggie: Yeah, you know, I think the The biggest thing for me, um, was, uh, sleep. Like how do you turn off to be able to sleep? And what I found was that, um, I would carry a, a spiral, uh, notebook, the size of an index index cards on a spiral notebook. And I would carry it in my pocket. Uh, and I would write down, you know, anything that was on my to-do list or anything that I needed to remember. Uh, and, and what I think that allowed me to do is that, um, you know, when I went to sleep at night, if I ever had like, uh, uh, oh my God, did I remember to do this or this thought that was really important, I would. I would keep my index card on the table next to me and a pen. I would just write it down. And I would like trust in that the spiral notebook had all the information and that I was not going to solve for any of those things while I was sleeping. And so I think just being able to get a night of rest and let my mind be at ease and not try to feel like I’m holding everything, you know, and I also think that that’s like kind of like, what do you call it, how you how you avoid key man risk. How do you have systems that are easily shareable and easily transferable so that if for some reason you’re out or sick or you decide you want to leave or you need to go to business school or whatever, you have effective ways to transfer out of the role so that you don’t feel as though everything is always your responsibility.

Diana: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I fully agree to that because I do the same. I always have something next to me and I try to pencil everything down so it’s out of my head and I can relax and I know I can take care of that tomorrow. So, very helpful tips. So, of course, basketball, for sure, is also helpful. That’s the best medicine, I would say.

Reggie: Well, basketball is only good if you play well. If you play basketball and you play poorly, and then the president is trash-talking you for the next seven days, it’s not always helpful.

Diana: Yeah, well, I must say, because you mentioned the Hornets earlier, I’ve seen the Hornets play against the Lakers one time, which was amazing to see. So what’s your favorite team? Which team are you rooting for at the moment?

Reggie: Well, here in the U.S., we have the NBA playoffs are going on. I, you know, obviously I was a huge Dirk Nowitzki fan.

Diana: I was hoping you’d say that.

Reggie: Germans. It was a bummer to see them get knocked out against the Clippers two nights ago. But the One of the co-founders for Apollo owns the 76ers, Josh Harris. So I’m rooting for the 76ers. They got a couple of Duke guys on the team. Steph Curry, who’s Steph Curry’s younger brother.

Reggie: And then Elton Brand, who also was an ACC player of the year, went to Duke and played in the NBA for 12 years. He’s a general manager for the Sixers. So I’m rooting for Embiid and Ben Simmons to beat the Atlanta Hawks in this series.

Diana: I mean, we’ll see what happens, I would say, huh? But I must say, I’ve also enjoyed watching Dirk a lot. I remember being in Dallas in the American Airlines Arena. And it was just phenomenal to see the crowd, you know, rooting for this German guy. And what a career, what an amazing career. So we’re all very proud of this guy. So Reggie, we’re coming to the last question. And how can I not ask about the iReggie? So the story has been told so many times by your former boss, it’s everywhere. So he enjoyed the music, you put him on the iPod, right? So what was your special trick? And I’m even more curious to find out what’s on your special music list at the moment. So what are you listening to?

Reggie: Um, well, uh, well, I think the, the story really, uh, came about when during the campaign, he had met with Jay-Z and, and Beyonce and he had not, he, after the meeting, he realized he was like, you know, I don’t actually don’t know what Jay-Z’s top songs are. Could you put five on to my iPad? I’d like to just sort of check them out, you know, for me. And I was like five, I was like, how can I only pick five?

They’re all good, right?

Reggie: There’s so many great songs.

Reggie: And so, uh, I had put the, I’d put on, um, um, five songs and he kind of said, Oh, these are good. I should have a couple more. And that came, that became this whole exercise of, you know, uh, him, um, sort of being kept up to speed with pop culture through, uh, some of my, uh, music, uh, taste and, And then when, um, you know, the iPad came out, someone asked like, uh, him, you know, are you going to get the iPad? And he said, well, why would he get an iPad? I have, I got an iReggie because at that point in time, you know, I always kind of had the internet on my, you know, on my Blackberry, on my sidekick, I grabbed the papers, you know, the magazines, the iPod, the, you know, And then when I left to go to finish up my MBA at Penn, he got an iPad. And I think the moral of the story is that the iPad was quite more effective and cost efficient than I ever was. But I think that he enjoyed hearing about my escapades more than the activities that the iPad got into after the workday.

Diana: That’s amazing. So what’s on your list at the moment, Reggie? What are you listening to?

Reggie: Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, I have, you know, I’ve been on a kick. I’ve been listening to a lot of NPR. Good choice. But I’ve also been listening to just some global artists. I love some of the Spanish artists. And some of this K-pop, the song Lo Siento, which is a little bit older, with like the Super Juniors. You know, it’s just like a lot of crazy stuff, man. Some gospel music. I’m trying to think, what’s my favorite? I love The Baby. He’s from North Carolina.

Diana: Oh, yeah. A local supporter, of course. Good.

Reggie: And then you’ve got, and obviously, um, you know, uh, Adele, like, I don’t know if she’s has anything, she has something that came out last year or something, but I’m like, you know, she can’t make a bad song.

Diana: Absolutely. Even the older ones are great. I agree. That’s fantastic. And speaking of North Carolina, any plans going down there anytime soon? Yeah.

Reggie: Yeah. Well, you know, coach K is retiring and I don’t know if you saw the news last week. It was, you know, a big to do. So, uh, we’ll definitely spend a bunch of time down in North Carolina, uh, uh, enjoying his last season. And then, you know, my hope is that I’ll be back there living there and the next year or so as well. Uh, you know, it’s a little cheaper. Oh, yes, it is a little warmer. Have you spent much time in the Carolinas?

Diana: Yes, I’ve been living in Virginia, actually, because that’s that’s a funny story. I mean, I’m very familiar with the D.C. area because I used to live on the Virginia side, Fairfax area. And when I was an au pair in 1998, 1999, it feels like ages ago and feels like, oh, my God, I got old. But this was my first encounter with the U.S. After I finished high school here and got my degrees, I wanted to see the world, and I decided to become an au pair to stay with a family in the D.C. metro area that both worked for the CIA. And it was quite interesting to be there for the kids.

Reggie: probably made for a very interesting dinner conversation.

Diana: Oh, I can tell you that. I can tell you that. I’ve been over in Langley also, and so quite interesting. But ever since then, I kept in touch with them, and they are actually moved from Virginia to North Carolina to the Raleigh-Durham area, which is very lovely. That’s great. I’ve been traveling throughout the East Coast and I hope I’m going to be back to the U.S. soon. So it’s, as I always say, my second home after living there for a full year. Yeah.

Reggie: Nice. Well, my parents live in Raleigh, Durham. So if you’re ever there, you got a place to crash.

Diana: Oh, that’s amazing. Definitely going to do this. Absolutely. So Reggie, it’s a huge honor for me to have you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us, for our listeners. There was a lot of valuable insights here. Thank you so much for guiding us through your wonderful career with all the insights you shared with us. Wishing you all the best, stay safe, stay happy and wishing you best of luck for all the things that are on your agenda for the rest of the year and whatever comes after this year, right?

Reggie: Yeah, well, we’ll see what the new normal is. Hopefully we’ll all reemerge from our from our kitchen tables and work from home setups. And thank you for having me on today. And it’s been a lot of fun. And hopefully, your listeners enjoy and can’t wait for my for my next trip to to Deutschland.

Diana: Yes, definitely. And luckily, we’re opening up here. So hopefully, everything will be back to normal soon. But I definitely would love to welcome you here. And yeah, thank you so much, Reggie, once again. And stay blessed. Thanks.

Reggie: Thanks for doing the same. Bye.

Diana: Thank you so much for the inspiration, Reggie, for sharing your story with my audience. It has been super, super interesting for me to listen to you. I’ve been hearing you speak before, but there’s always so much more and new you are sharing with your audiences. So lots of takeaways for me as well. So I’ll put all the relevant information into the show notes, everyone. Make sure you reach out to Reggie on LinkedIn. connect with him and also grab a copy of his book, the Power Forward book. Highly recommend it. I just recently read it again during my vacation. So definitely should be on your book list.

Jana Franklin is President of CEO Concierge, a company dedicated to offering high-quality virtual assistant services to busy entrepreneurs, business owners and C-suite levels.

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Jana talks about the importance of training and onboarding when bringing on an assistant, the role of personality assessments in the hiring process, treating assistants as business partners, and more.

CONNECT WITH JANA

• • Jana on LinkedIn
  • CEO Concierge

ABOUT JANA

As the owner of Jimmy John’s Franchise and Fantastic Sams, Jana Franklin has always been passionate about entrepreneurship and providing top-notch service in every business endeavor.

In May 2023, she embarked on a new journey and launched CEO Concierge Virtual Assistant, a
company dedicated to offering high-quality virtual assistant services to busy entrepreneurs, business owners and C-suite levels. CEO Concierge focus is on helping their clients streamline their operations, manage their tasks efficiently, and ultimately achieve their goals with greater ease.

At CEO Concierge Virtual Assistant, they provide a wide range of services, including administrative support, scheduling, email management, social media assistance, and much more. CEO Concierge’s goal is to give their clients the freedom to focus on what they do best while they handle the rest.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy: 00:21
Hey friends, welcome to The Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host, Jeremy Burrows, and this is episode 370. You can check out the show notes for this conversation at leaderassistant.com/370. Today I am excited to be speaking with Jana Franklin. Jana is the owner and president. CEO concierge is the business, is that right?

Jana: 00:54
CEO concierge, yes.

Jeremy: 00:56
CEO concierge, yep. And the uh it’s CEO concierge virtual assistant. It provides a wide range of services, including administrative support, scheduling, email management, social media assistance, etc. So we’ll hear a little bit more about that in a bit. But first, uh Jana, you are in the same state that I am in. Is that correct?

Jana: 01:20
Yeah. Yay! We’re in the show-me state, right? Let’s show well, we can’t show them today, but we’ll tell them, right?

Jeremy: 01:27
Exactly. Yeah. So Missouri, you’re in St. Louis, Missouri. I’m in Kansas City, Missouri. We’re probably about door to door. We’re probably about three hours and 30 minutes, depending on how fast uh you drive across uh Interstate 70.

Jana: 01:40
Oh, you can’t drive fast across Interstate 70 anymore, can you?

Jeremy: 01:44
Right, right. Um, so yeah, excited to have you on. Tell us uh what you love to do when you’re not working.

Jana: 01:53
Well, when it’s warm out, I like to be in my yard, uh, working in the garden, just sitting out enjoying this weather. Um I like to play mahjong um with my girlfriends. Um played that for quite a while. I know it’s becoming the older age of getting that right now, but I love mahjong. And then I have a freshman in college and a freshman in high school. So they keep me busy. My freshman in high school plays tennis and runs cross country. So um like to, you know, go support him. And then I’ve been married for 27 years. So yeah, uh lots of family and friend time if I can.

Jeremy: 02:36
Nice. So you have to tell me a little bit as a side note: is it mahang? Is that how you say it?

Jana: 02:42
Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy: 02:43
So I I noticed that I think my executive’s family is getting into it a little bit. I have no idea. I haven’t seen nobody I know is getting into it. I just saw something. I was like, what is this this game or something? So what is it? What’s like the TLDR there?

Jana: 02:59
Yeah, so it’s a Chinese tile game. Um, and it’s really supported. Um, it’s supported out of New York uh for the States. Uh, we they do a card, it’s the playing card. It is tiles. Um, I should know more about this. My mother could tell you all the rules and everything, but my mom taught me, she has taught a ton of people. She has taught me and my girlfriends here in St. Louis. So we we try and meet at least once a month to play. And it it it you can bet, we don’t bet in my group, but um, and it’s like quarters and nickels, right? And it’s almost it’s comparable. I hate like if you know pitch or euchre or you you it it’s there’s there are suits, but the suits are bams, cracks, and um oh my gosh, I just forgot the other one, bams, cracks, and uh dots. And and you you try and win your hand, right? And so, but it’s very um it’s addictive. You can play it online. Um, you have to pay for it online, but it’s addictive. And it’s I’m very competitive. Uh, but I love to see, I just I love to see people win Majon hands. You can, you can um, you know, it’s called if you if you don’t, if no one wins, it’s called the wall, you hit the wall. I mean, so it’s um it’s a four-person game, really, but you can play with three, you can play with five. Um, it’s really hard to play with less than three. Um, but it’s good. I have noticed people that are really good at math can catch on a lot faster than people who aren’t. Um, I think they see the board better. I don’t know why.

Jeremy: 04:44
But yeah, so you’re saying I would probably not be good at it because I’m not good at math.

Jana: 04:48
No, I mean I’m not good at math. I mean, I’m good at math, but I’m not good at math. It’s not my strong suit, right? So um I struggle at it sometimes. Whereas I have friends that can see the numbers and the boards faster. I don’t know.

Jeremy: 04:60
Nice.

Jana: 05:00
I don’t I don’t know. Cool.

Jeremy: 05:02
I’ll definitely definitely have I’m sure I’ll learn more about that soon if it’s if it’s uh getting popular too.

Jana: 05:08
So yes, yes.

Jeremy: 05:09
Um awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about your career, and uh then we’ll kind of get into you know what you’re doing now and and how we can we can talk about mistakes that CEOs make when hiring a virtual assistant, and then also um why every executive assistant should be treated like a business partner. So tell us about your your career journey and how you uh what what what your experience is and then how you ended up where you’re at today.

Jana: 05:36
I preface it with saying, learn from my costly mistakes. You know, learn like learn from me my costly mistakes so you don’t have to stick go through the costly issues. So I actually um my degree is in fashion merchandising. I am a former uh corporate uh handbag um buyer for small other goods for what was used to be May Department stores, which was Famous Bar, Lord and Taylor, um Hex, there were seven chains. Uh they were based in St. Louis, Missouri. And I severed out when Federated, Macy’s bought May Company in 2006, which was perfect. My my husband and I at the time were opening, getting ready to open our third Fantastic Sam’s franchise hair salon. And it was perfect because I was we were at the point where we thought we might want to start a family, like things were just changing in our lives. And so we so I so we opened another franchise, Fantastic Sam’s. We opened a total of five within five years, and then I had our first our first child. And then in 2010, a friend of my husband’s was talking to him about Jimmy John’s franchises, which was based in Champaign, Illinois at the time, and how much money these Jimmy Johns made, and this is so great, and so forth. So we went over to Champaign and we drank the Kool-Aid and we bought into the franchise in 2010. We opened our first store in 2011 when I was seven and a half months pregnant with our seconds, and proceeded to open a total of six within the next five years and about died. A lot of growth. Um just, you know, like I said, learn from my expensive mistakes. Um and then in 2017, really came to a uh uh mental, emotional, everything halt. Uh told my husband he needed to come in and run the companies and I needed to take a break. And so did, and then I came back in right before COVID, big mistake. And it and then uh realized at that point, like I am not good at everything, even though I want to be, you know, I want um, I’m not good at everything, nor do I want to be good at everything. And I want to spend my time where I like to be. And so COVID hit about the same time. And and that’s when I realized, okay, I need to be in my stores. And everything else that I was doing that I wasn’t really good at, I needed to bring in someone to help me. And so that’s when I brought in a virtual assistant to really work on the things that I was not good at. And that way I was allowed to be in to in the stores where I actually did better, right? My business grew during COVID. It did, you know, I a lot of people can’t say that. Now, I say that Jimmy Johns grew during COVID. The hair salons got shut down because they were not considered essential. And so I had two big dichotomies going on where one was like, you know, going gangbusters, and the other one was like, my people were unemployed. So it was just a very emotional, but at the same time, that’s when we brought in the virtual assistants as well and to help me and the Jimmy Johns companies. And so it just it just really has transpired. Um I have really realized, and I also turned 50 in there. So I think I also was like, I don’t spend time anymore doing things that I’m not good at, nor do not benefit my company, myself, my family, my friends. Like it, I have to be being productive as a person of society. And so that for me is kind of where I’m at today. Um, is like what can I do to grow our companies, grow me as a person, be supportive as a parent, and so forth. And so that’s really where this, the the invention of CEO concierge came into play. Because in talking to my friends who are also business and entrepreneurs, they were like, Jana, you’ve got something here figured out on the VAs, on the virtual assistants that you really need to bring out to other entrepreneurs, especially women. And that’s where that really kind of play came into play because I think, and I’ve noticed this more after being in CEO concierge for two years, is that women are very relationship driven and men are more tactical. But the other thing was is I think because, and I’m not saying all of us, but we’re running our households, we’re running our companies, we’re running ourselves, we’re overwhelmed, but we’re also want to be perfectionist. And so that’s where I think a lot of the control and overwhelmness comes from. And so I really playing into that, at least with the female entrepreneurs, to really understand like you don’t have to do it all. And this is why.

Jeremy: 10:52
Yeah, that makes sense. Awesome. So what is so you you started CEO concierge, you have a like a team of of uh contractors essentially that that you provide, or how does that work?

Jana: 11:05
Well, we became a Philippines entity in May of 24. So all my employees in the Philippines are all my staff in the Philippines are part of the entity. They are employees. So we are able, because this was very important to me to be able to give them benefits. And and 82% of my staff in the Philippines are female, and a lot of them are mothers. And so I really wanted to make sure that they felt that, well, all of them, that they had my support and the and the growth and the professional development that they need and want as well. And so that’s why we did go in and establish as employees.

Jeremy: 11:50
Nice, nice. So what is the, you know, I asked, I asked all my guests what topics they’d like to discuss, you know, before diving in. And one thing that you provided I thought was pretty interesting. Uh you said the $100,000 mistake that most CEOs make when hiring their first virtual assistant. And so what talk through that that big mistake that’s that most CEOs make.

Jana: 12:16
I think, well, let me rephrase that. I know.

Jana: 12:23
We there’s this thought process that a virtual assistant is going to come in and be able to take over and help that person from ground from from day one, knowing everything they should know. And and no one no one brings in an employee that way, right? Like, if I was to bring in, you know, uh a manager in my restaurants, I’ve got to train them. Like they don’t know everything, they don’t know my core values, our, you know, as a company, they don’t so on and so forth. And I think there’s this misconception that this, oh, I hired this virtual assistant. They’re gonna know how I want my emails responded to, and they’re gonna know that that they that you know, Susie has to be, she’s always out of the office by three o’clock. You know, they they just they know this. And so they get so there’s this level of frustration that comes over from the CEO and the or the client that they don’t know what they’re doing. And it’s not that they don’t know what they’re doing, it’s that no one has taken one hour, 30 minutes. We do, we do an onboarding call with them, but there has to be an understanding that they’re not gonna know how you want a certain email responded to, or that you know, you have to set some guidelines, just like you do for anyone else in your company, and expectations and and and and that open communication. And I think that is where the biggest mistake comes in and the frustration comes in, because they don’t they the expectation is that these people are gonna know what they’re doing. And yes, they do know what they’re doing, they don’t know what they’re doing for that particular client as far as how they want interaction to happen or how they want to be, how they want communication and to be done. And that’s where it gets costly because what happens is they are piecemealing it out and it’s not working. And so I really this is where I come in with a lot of our clients and say, okay, this, you know, when we’re doing the discovery call with them, and then when we’re doing the onboarding call with them, where we are I’m very clear. We are very clear to them and say, look, it is going to be a walk. There is going to be daily communications for the first couple weeks. You are going to feel that you don’t have control over the situation. You are like, I’m trying to make them feel like trying to make them understand like this is not something that is going to happen overnight, but it is going to happen very quickly, but you also have to put in the time. And I think that’s where the misnomer comes into play. And so I always have to say, Well, you do do this with any of your other employees. And then I’m like, Well, if I have a turnover issue, I know why. So, because it gets costly. They get frustrated, it the CEOs get frustrated, and there’s no reason, there’s no reason why, really.

Jeremy: 15:41
Yeah. Um what’s the what’s the what’s something you’ve learned as you’ve onboarded these assistants to to CEOs and executives? What’s maybe the top onboarding tip? Like what’s, you know, you mentioned like, oh, you’re gonna have a touch point every day for two weeks. That’s a good good practical thing, but like what’s another practical, like, hey, I’m starting with a new executive, or hey, I’m gonna hire an assistant, what do I need to do in the first 30 days?

Jana: 16:06
Well, I think first and foremost is uh to let the virtual assistant know, and and this and this applies to executive assistants in person, personal is like for me if I’m hiring an executive assistant, virtual assistant, to me, that is that is so encompassing of task, right? And so I am very clear with my virtual assistants that the task could change, expectations could change, uh, priorities definitely change on a daily basis in my business. And so are they okay with that? Are they is there gonna be any frustration, you know, please understand there’s frustration. But here’s the thing you have to ask me clarifying questions. You have to ask me clarifying questions when you have me. Because if you don’t, I’m assuming you know what you’re doing. And then if you don’t, and you come back three days later and ask me a clarifying question of something we just went through, I’m gonna be very frustrated.

Jana: 17:15
Right.

Jana: 17:16
And so we’re really, but the other thing we focus on also when CEO concierge is we do personality assessments and we are really, and I think this is also key because this is this is key in any business, right? You get along, you are going to collaborate better with someone that is complimenting you, not complimenting your work, right? So, like for me, I really need someone that’s gonna be detailed oriented because I’m not. So we could be we could be collaborating on a Zoom call, but I’m not really taking notes. They’re the ones taking notes. So we are making sure that we are matching personalities up. So I’m very autonomous. I need someone that’s autonomous, but not to my level. I need someone that’s detailed, I need someone that’s a sense of urgency, but it’s patient. So I am so we’re using those personality assessments, which is I I call it our cheat sheet, right? Because we’re making sure, because I I mean I don’t know about you, but I work with people that I don’t like, I don’t jive with, I don’t work well with, and we don’t we don’t produce to the level that I would if I’m working with someone that I can work well with, if that makes sense.

Jeremy: 18:34
Yeah, totally. So what’s your what are some of your favorite, or do you have like what just one main personality test that you case?

Jana: 18:41
So we use culture index.

Jeremy: 18:43
Okay.

Jana: 18:44
Um, we use culture index. We has off we have also used 16 personalities. Um we have used that, um, but we really utilize culture index. And the other thing I think that’s important is especially when you’re dealing with the CEO of a company, a C-suite, a lot of people are touching those people. And so I think it’s very important that everyone that the assistant is dealing with is taken into account because you could be reporting to the CEO, but say the CEO is growing, the business is growing and they’ve added a director level in between them. Well, they need to make sure that who’s ever reporting now to the director is gonna get along with is gonna jive with the director. Because if they’re not, then then the personality becomes a complete the production, the productivity, everything becomes an issue because the they’re just not clicking. And so that is one of the things that we really drive in. I mean, I have we have clients that have multiple partners, right? There’s three founders. We’re doing the personality assessment on all three of them. We’re not doing it on the one. And I think that because when you’re interviewing someone in person, you kind of get the body language and you get their you get all you get that feeling, right? You get a gut feeling like, oh, I really like this person. I don’t know. And so I think sometimes when you’re dealing with virtual, whether it’s work from home companies, you know, I think there’s a lot of companies doing, you know, come back to work, come back to the office right now. I think you lose a lot of that. And so this is just another step to make sure it happens.

Jeremy: 20:34
Awesome. Um what about the idea of, we talk a lot about this in the in the assistant world, this idea of being a business partner or a strategic business partner. Um and you know, you’re obviously working with the executives and trying to encourage them and and uh encourage them to treat their assistant as a business partner. Tell us a little bit about how you how you maybe present that business case to these executives, how you help the assistants uh you know own that and lean into that and see themselves as as strategic partners.

Jana: 21:14
I think it’s very important. I think getting your ideas brainstorm uh how different getting outside the box. I think uh for me, with my virtual assistants, they have ideas that I would have never thought about because they see, they’re seeing in like in our database system, we use Trello, right? They’re seeing their bookkeeping in my books, in my invoices, they’re seeing our emails, they’re seeing the calendar, they’re seeing maybe efficiencies that could be fixed, they’re seeing uh an idea that we’re struggling with that maybe they have an idea that you know what, but no one’s asking them. So we really, so that’s where I’m like, I’m always, if I’m on a call, I’m always saying, Well, what do you think? Well, what do you think? And sometimes they’re kind of when it first happens, they’re taken back. They’re like, What what do you mean? What do I think about this idea? Like, this is your company, right? And I’m like, no, but you’re engaged, you’re seeing stuff, you probably have an idea. Number one. Number two, you know what? They talk to each other in our company, the virtual assistants. There might be something going on in a company, or I might see something. Um, and I have a firsthand to it, but I might see like something that might be working at a company, and yeah, we’re gonna talk to that client, be like, hey, this is awesome. Do you do you have any qualms? Do you have any confidentiality? Do you do you mind if we share this? Because this might work over there. Like it’s not a competition, whatever, whatever. I’ll use an example. I have a client who had this recruiting process that was dynamite. And I, as for the Jimmy John side of it, was like, we need to do this, right? And so we went to the client and I said, I don’t know what you’re doing, but can I talk to your VA? Can my VA and your VA talk and figure out if this is something I could institute over here? And she was like, sure, no problem, right? She’s in Vegas and I’m over in St. Louis, and there’s no competition. And so they did. And then they got they got it figured out and they presented it to me and we launched it. And let me tell you, it made a huge difference. And but I didn’t have to do anything. And I mean, so there’s so they’re bringing stuff together that they’re seeing and hearing from other things that cut down on help with my efficiencies and help with my profitability. And so I think that’s where I say bringing bringing them in as a partner is is making sure that you’re including them because I think that they see things that you’re you’re not thinking of because you’re in the well, right? You’re in the you’re in the trenches.

Jeremy: 24:08
Yeah. So I love that too, because you know, those listening either are part of a uh assistant team at their company, or they’re not like me. They might be the only assistant in their company, but you know, that’s why I have the leader assistant community, leader assistant resources, so that they can reach out and connect with other assistants because part of being a uh, like you mentioned, a business partner is hey, you know what? I am aware of what’s going on in in this industry. I’m aware of what other assistants are doing with their executives and with their teams, and I’m gonna go learn and network and and grow from that interaction with with uh with peers. And so just being able to put yourself out there and connect with other people and and be willing willing and open to hear how are you being treated like a business partner and how are you helping your executive see you as a business partner? Um, is that’s great, super helpful.

Jana: 25:07
Yeah. I mean, the productivity, you know, you got to be proactive, right? The other thing I think it’s really it’s really interesting. Um, it didn’t even phase me. So um uh my sales team and I were on a training on Friday, a long training on Friday, and it was phenomenal. And we we already had our call and recapped and said, okay, what are our takeaways from it? Whatever, and all of us talked. And the virtual uh salesperson that was on the call sent me an email and she’s like, Hey, is there any certifications that came out of that training? Because I would love to be able to include that. She didn’t say resume, because I was like, leave it me. But um the professional development too, the upskilling of an assistant, like they want to continue. You I want to support my assistants to continue to grow professionally, personally, and professionally. And so if there’s the ability for them to attain, there’s so much free AI training right now. Like if you talk about AI, right? If there’s so much free AI training, why wouldn’t you? I mean, like I’m constantly saying those to my virtual assistants, like, hey, this might be something that you could really benefit from. Yeah, right. And so I think that is also key. And that’s part of like treating them as a business partner. You you’re gonna send your employees to training, why wouldn’t you send your assistant to training?

Jeremy: 26:35
Yeah, totally. And you know, why wouldn’t you send your assistant to leader assistant training course? You know, there’s a free podcast that you can listen to, you know, all the things. No, but yeah, that’s awesome. Janna, thank you so much for sharing. And I I love uh I love catching up with folks, especially in my state, uh, my home state. Um but yeah, hopefully we’ll run into each other sometime in uh Kansas City or St. Louis. But what’s uh what’s the best place for people to reach out if they want to learn more and find out more about you?

Jana: 27:10
CEOconcierge.com is how to reach me.

Jeremy: 27:24
Awesome, awesome. Well, I will put those links in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/370. Uh you can reach out and say hi to Jana. Um, but yeah, I appreciate your time. Uh thanks so much. Good luck with your business and uh appreciate uh yeah you being on the show.

Jana: 27:41
Thank you, Jeremy.

Diana Brandl is a longtime C-Suite assistant, and host of the Executive Office Insights podcast.

In this spotlight episode, Diana interviews Patrick Jephson – former Chief of Staff to Princess Diana.

CONNECT WITH PATRICK

• Patrick on LinkedIn

ABOUT PATRICK

For eight years Patrick Jephson was Princess Diana’s private secretary (Chief of Staff), responsible for every aspect of her public life and private organization. He travelled with the Princess to five continents, working with officials up to head of state and encountering unforgettable figures in politics, philanthropy and the arts such as Hillary Clinton, Margaret Thatcher, Mother Teresa, Bono and Luciano Pavarotti. Under relentless media scrutiny, his tenure covered the period of Princess Diana’s greatest popularity as well as the constitutional controversy of her separation from Prince Charles.

He is now a consultant, journalist, broadcaster and New York Times bestselling author, based in Washington DC. His byline has appeared in every UK national newspaper and international titles as varied as TIME magazine, Vanity Fair, People, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung and Paris Match.

A published authority on corporate and personal branding, Patrick equally enjoys coaching C-suite executives, advising UHNWIs on reputation management and addressing PR conferences worldwide. Having worked for an internationally high-profile woman, he feels a special affinity for cross-cultural, protocol, gender and communications issues.

He also writes, presents and advises on factual and drama TV programs, appearing on every major US network. He is currently an expert consultant to the award-winning Netflix series The Crown.

Patrick was born and raised in Ireland and holds a master’s degree in political science from Cambridge University. A keen amateur historian, his ancestors include notable courtiers to Henry VIII, Elizabeth I and William III. As an officer in the British Royal Navy, he served all over the world before being selected for royal duty. In March 2015 he became a naturalized citizen of the United States.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.

Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 2: 00:46
Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to the Leader Assistant Podcast. I’m excited to share another spotlight episode of my friend Diana Brandl’s show, Executive Office Insights. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information about her show and today’s featured guest. But in the meantime, enjoy this conversation and keep leading well.

Speaker: 01:14
The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

Speaker 2: 01:28
Check out the show notes to this episode at leaderassistant.com/369.

Speaker 1: 01:35
It is always a huge pleasure for me to introduce my international network to all of you. And today it is Patrick Jephson, former private secretary and chief of staff to the late Princess Diana. He was responsible for every aspect of her public life and private organization. And I can tell you there are so many great stories he’s sharing with us while he was working for eight years alongside Princess Diana. But of course, there’s so much more to learn about Patrick. He is now working as a consultant, a journalist, a broadcaster. He is a New York Times best-selling author. And I can tell you he has been appeared in every UK national newspaper and also a few international titles like The Time magazine, Vanity Fair, People, and of course our German Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. He is also consulting at the very famous network series The Crown. I’m sure many people of you have seen all those wonderful episodes already. I cannot wait for the new ones to arrive. So he’s he’s consulting. He’s working um with uh the actors there, and he has a lot to share with us. So I’m very honored to introducing the wonderful Patrick Jefferson to you all. Please enjoy. Welcome everybody to the podcast The Future Assistant, a podcast full of inspiration, encouragement, and empowerment for administrative professionals. Tune in, level up, and get motivated by the stories you are about to hear. So here we are again with another episode for the Future Assistant Podcast. And I am connected now to a gentleman based in the Washington, DC metro area. Welcome, Patrick Jeffson. An honor to have you here on the show today.

Speaker 3: 03:31
And it’s great to be with you again.

Speaker 1: 03:33
Yes, and it’s just so wonderful to continue our talk because the expert session we were running in December 2020 was such a huge success. And I’ve been receiving so many messages from people who were not able to attend. So I told them I need to get you in front of a microphone again in order to tell your story again and uh what’s happening in your life. So I’m very happy that you’re ready to do that again. So here we are. Uh a warm welcome uh to you, Patrick. And um, I mentioned it already. Uh you’re based in the Washington, D.C. metro area, and I’m quite familiar with the area from my Opair year back in the year 1998, 1999. I know I feel like a little old now when I say that, but it was a wonderful time living in the Virginia area. Um, but hey, you are not originally from the US, actually. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background, Patrick?

Speaker 3: 04:26
Well, Diana, I’m I’m really very fortunate in that I have, I suppose, a bit of a mixed-up background. I’m a bit of a, if I were a if I were a puppy, I’d be a mongrel probably. Um I uh I was born and grew up in Ireland. Uh and uh I’ve always been grateful for that. It’s it’s um uh a real bonus in a way to have a perspective on the world that comes from a small country. Um and um uh I’m also fortunate in that I don’t know why particularly, but Irish people seem to be seem to be welcome wherever they go in the world, and I’ve always found that, and I’m very grateful. Um my mother was from Scotland, and um she had a strong belief in in education, and uh she had all boys, and she believed in us uh being independent and um being confident. She sent us to a uh a Scottish boarding school where we were toughened up pretty well. Um and then I went to Cambridge, where I read uh political science, which um uh I was told was a great degree for conversation at cocktail parties, and that has proved the case. Then I I at that time I already had quite a sense of adventure, and I was interested in history, and I went and worked for two seasons on a big archaeological dig in Jordan and traveled around the Middle East for chiking mostly, which was very formative. Um and it gave me the sense for adventure and for travel. And uh while at Cambridge, I applied to join the the Royal Navy, the British Navy, um, because I I was uh attracted by the pictures in the recruitment brochure. I like the idea of serving something bigger than myself. Um and and it’s true, an employer like the Navy that that requires you not just to sail around the oceans, but also, if necessary, to give your life for the job, um, that concentrates your mind. And I rather that that appealed to me. I was glad that the even on a bad day, I could look at uh the ship or at the flag or at the sailors and think, yep, this is something really worth serving. And I think I was fortunate, and I would recommend that to anybody. If you can serve something bigger than yourself, feel you were part of something worthwhile, that’s a real reward. That’s a great benefit. While I was there in the Navy, I was selected to be Princess Diana’s military aide on a two-year second, um, which was sort of like winning the lottery, uh, certainly at that time in the in the late 80s, um, to go from bobbing around the ocean in a little gray ship to working for the most glamorous, beautiful um photographed woman in the world was was quite surreal. But I suppose again the the the message from that was um I didn’t really know what the job was, but I knew that I wanted to do it. I just felt that in when I looked back on my life, it was an opportunity I couldn’t have turned down.

Speaker 1: 07:49
Absolutely, absolutely. And we have to also uh add that you were the first and only private secretary and chief of staff uh to the late Princess of Wales, Diana. So, of course, the audience is keen to know how did you land this job?

Speaker 3: 08:02
Ah, well, um there I was as a military aide on a two-year secondment. Um, but at the end of that time, uh Princess Diana and Prince Charles were beginning to separate. I mean, it was very sad, but that was the reality. And so she said to me, Don’t go back to the Navy, come and set up my office, work for me full-time, run my public life. And she said, Um, we will go conquer the world.

Speaker 1: 08:28
And I remember you told me that you had this lunch conversation, uh the conversation over lunch with her, right?

Speaker 3: 08:33
Yep, I mean, there’s nothing like aiming high. So dream big. That’s a good rule. Um, but again, I was quite sure that the job was going to be difficult and challenging and probably very stressful. But I couldn’t turn it down. I couldn’t, she was a very difficult lady to say no to. Um, but I just knew that uh again, when I was, if I ever lived to be old, uh, that I would want to look back on it. And uh it would be sure to give me um memories, but also like the Navy, lots of travel.

Speaker 1: 09:10
I would go interesting places and even aviation was involved, and you’re a huge aviation fan.

Speaker 3: 09:17
Yes. Now, Diana, it’s funny you mentioned that because um it sounds silly, but uh I was, I am interested in airplanes. And Diana used to laugh at me when we went on the Royal Airplane. You know, I would be I would be interested in the airplane, and she would laugh and she said, Oh, Patrick, you know, what a kid you are. Um but uh there were many times, particularly very stressful or difficult times, when being able to um take a little uh uh holiday for myself in the airplane, just in my mind, even. And I think that’s a good tip. If you can, if you have a passion, I mean it could be orchids or you know, stamp collecting or dancing. I mean, if you have a passion, develop it, use it, because it will it will be a wonderful refuge for you in tough times. And of course, we went on lots of interesting airplanes and we flew fascinating places. I mean, just operationally.

Speaker 1: 10:14
Yes.

Speaker 3: 10:15
That as that aspect of the job fascinated me.

Speaker 1: 10:18
So how how was it on the Concorde the first time? What was the feeling?

Speaker 3: 10:23
Well, the Concord, of course, the uh the supersonic airliner was um the ultimate way to travel. There was nothing better than the Concord. It was if you arrived on the Concord, you were special. And many of my of my favorite travel memories with Princess Diana were flights on the Concord. Um, uh, not least because um it was very comfortable and there was very nice wine and and uh the food was good. But one time Diana said to me, uh Um, you know, you really enjoy this, Patrick, don’t you? And I said, Yeah, well yeah, I do, as it happens. And she said, Well, you know, I’m only doing this to keep you happy. Thank you. And uh one time the the the captain of the Concord came came back into the cabin and said to the princess, Well, you know, Your Royal Highness, would you like to come in the cockpit, you know, for the takeoff? And um she said, No, thanks, but Patrick will come.

Speaker 1: 11:19
And you were like, Oh yes, I’m in, right?

Speaker 3: 11:23
Yeah, but the poor captain was disappointed. He wanted he wanted the princess and he ended up with me.

Speaker 1: 11:28
But you know, what was the flight time again from London to New York? Was it in three hours or something?

Speaker 3: 11:33
It was three hours going and sometimes you know, less than three hours coming back.

Speaker 1: 11:36
Wow.

Speaker 3: 11:37
Um, but of course, Diana, even if you were in Concord or in, as we often were, interesting private planes, um, you were still working. And I think for a lot of for a lot of our listeners, you know, uh people think it’s very glamorous going in the company jet. Um, and of course it is sometimes, but the truth is it’s a flying office. And in that sort of close job where you are working very um uh uh for prolonged periods of close contact with your boss, you have to be on duty all the time. You cannot let your guard slip. Um, and so uh yes, a lot of the flying was fun, but it was also some of the toughest time. A lot of hard work, no relax. You know, I could be more relaxed in the back row of economy in the British Airways plane coming back from the from the reconnaissance trip. That was that was easier.

Speaker 1: 12:31
Yes, I can only I can only imagine. So uh you’ve seen great places uh traveling together with Diana. So is there anything you specifically love to remember you want to share with us? Uh, one of these moments?

Speaker 3: 12:44
Well, I suppose really the thing, Diana, was the contrast. Um, you know, one trip you might be in uh rural Africa visiting a uh a refugee camp or a very, very um moving uh hospital for orphans dying of HIV AIDS. Um the next week you might be in Washington, in the White House, meeting the president. So uh again, that’s very um intellectually very satisfying, being able to, you have to be versatile, you have to adapt quickly, you have to be very agile in terms of your protocol and your cross-cultural understanding. So any of us who get the chance to be exposed to widely varying um environments, uh, yes, it’s enviable, I suppose, um, but it is also stressful. It’s not for everybody. Yes. And you have to know yourself and your own personal setup whether that is going to thrill you and energize you, or or whether it’s going to damage you, whether it’s going to um uh deprive you of of the right work-life balance, whether you are just not physically, constitutionally um sufficiently versatile. There’s no there’s no shame in that, but it is important that if you find yourself in that sort of of role, you have to be able to give it everything. Um you have to feel that you are succeeding, because if you’re not, uh it can eat away at your self-confidence. Every day I had a battle with imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1: 14:27
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:28
You know, I would think, what am I doing here? Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 14:31
And being away from your family, right? I mean, work life balance is a real thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:36
Yes, yep, little, very small at the time. Uh and you know, if I have a regret, it is that I didn’t have my work-life balance properly organized.

Speaker 4: 14:45
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:46
Um, okay, at the time, uh, it seemed important. The job seemed more important. And and many of us feel like that uh with our with our with our roles. But let me tell you, from a position as you know, now having grown up daughters, um, you never get back those those uh years when they are small. And um, yes, the work may be exciting and it may be very fulfilling for you personally, but just remember the graveyards are full of indispensable people.

Speaker 1: 15:16
Absolutely. You are so right, Patrick. Yeah. So um why don’t you give us a little insight about the job actually? Uh how was it to organize the life of Princess Diana?

Speaker 3: 15:28
Well, I had great advantage in that she had asked me to set it up. So I was not taking over an organization that was running well or running badly. You know, an organization that’s running well puts a lot of pressure on you, and so is taking over a bad organization because you then have to have to improve it. By starting something off, that in a way is perhaps the biggest challenge of all because what you do sets the standard. And you have you have a lot of freedom. Well, Diana gave me a lot of freedom to set it up the way I wanted, and I had a pretty good idea how I wanted it to be. Um with Diana, it was um always important to remember that she was extremely professional. I know that we have this image of her now as a very emotionally approachable, uh rather informal kind of super celebrity, but actually she was a professional. She worked really hard. She was diligent. In fact, the letter D comes up quite a bit. She was diligent, she was dutiful, um, she was very um committed to her work, uh, not just as a humanitarian, but as a as a royal person too. So while a lot of our work, particularly overseas, was charity-based, a lot of it too, was trade promotion, diplomacy, cultural work. Um, these things are forgotten about her. But we we need to remember, and I like to I like to remind myself and others that she was first and foremost a kind of ambassador for her country. Um, she took that very seriously. She was very dutiful, very diligent, very detail-oriented. Yes. You know, with some bosses, you can get things past them, you can, as they say in English, pull the wool over their eyes, you can you can kind of get away with stuff. I could get away with nothing.

Speaker 1: 17:14
She would see the mistake uh in a letter or with a.

Speaker 3: 17:17
Not so much in the letter, I mean, because she she was very smart, but she was not academically very, very, very accomplished, as she admitted. But she was very smart, very observant. And um, you know, some organizations, you can get away with second-rate work.

Speaker 5: 17:33
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 17:33
Uh with Diana, you could not. She she uh was very, very observant. But it taught me um that uh you have to develop what I call forgivability. You have you you you have to have a relationship with your boss where they will trust you to tell them if you if you make a mistake.

Speaker 4: 17:55
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 17:55
So very very early on in my time with Diana, I made a point of going to her and saying, look, I’ve made a mistake. And she said, Nobody makes mistakes in the British Royal Family. I said, Well, I just made a mistake. And she said, Nobody, nobody has ever admitted that to me before.

Speaker 4: 18:10
Wow.

Speaker 3: 18:10
Um, so uh it was great in that she then trusted me to tell her if things went wrong. Um not too often, but just enough, just enough to allow her to forgive me. Because forgivability, um, and I now teach this to my to my clients, it is it is that quality that gets you the benefit of the doubt when you make a mistake. Right. Everybody makes mistakes, everybody does. But the key is how you respond, how you build back, how you how you use the mistake to make things better in future. And again, dealing with Danis, the the um the staff that I recruited, um, I encouraged the sense of uh that people could share information. That was very important, um, that we were very tight-knit, very lean, as they say. Um, we were responsive, nimble, um, quite uh quite in royal terms, we were quite thrifty too. We were we were good value. But this idea that individuals had to be able to feel that they could admit their mistakes without fearing failure, that they could admit mistakes and we could all benefit from it.

Speaker 1: 19:19
Yeah, absolutely. So you just mentioned that uh she was very detail-oriented. How how else would you describe her as a boss? Kind of a leadership style she had.

Speaker 3: 19:30
She had terrific leadership qualities, and uh bear in mind, I uh in the Navy we we studied leadership and I uh served under some great leaders. Uh Diana had natural leadership. Um she was obviously physically uh very, very imposing. She was um five foot ten, what’s that, just under two meters, right? Um uh with plus hair and heels. Uh she had a very penetrating blue gaze. You know, her eyes were were very um powerful instruments. She used them really well.

Speaker 5: 20:07
Yes.

Speaker 3: 20:08
Uh and she um could read people, she could read the mood, she could read a run. Um, she thrived on uh uh challenges, difficult people, um, people sometimes who didn’t like her, people who were uh not fans, just obviously as she was with people who were in great need or who were suffering.

Speaker 4: 20:31
Right.

Speaker 3: 20:31
Um so as uh her leadership style was um to develop a sense of spontaneity, um, but always to prepare hard, you know, to work hard to prepare the details. And this is the trick. Great leaders make it look easy. Yes. But it isn’t. It looks easy because they did the hard work first. And people like me didn’t see the first thing.

Speaker 1: 20:56
You were in the back, of course. The hidden leaders, right?

Speaker 3: 21:02
I used to say, I used to say, behind every great woman, there is a man worrying about the schedule.

Speaker 1: 21:08
Oh, and by the way, can you tell the story about Mother Teresa? And you were worried about catching that plane. I need to hear this again, please, Patrick.

Speaker 3: 21:17
Well, to tell you something about Diana’s style, her leadership style, her management style, she was extremely time conscious. Very, very punctual. She said, you know, this is courtesy. And therefore, I was in trouble if the program uh got got behind, you know, if things were not happening on time. So I tried to develop her programs, her timetable for every day, with a little bit of extra time here and there so that she could be spontaneous, so that she could stop, talk, chat. Um, but we were visiting Mother Teresa, and I had not left much time for spontaneity. It all seemed very well organized. We knew when things were supposed to happen. And we were running on time. I was feeling very pleased. And then Mother Teresa said, Will you come and pray with me in my private chapel? To Diana. And to me, actually. And you don’t say no to Mother Teresa. I couldn’t, I couldn’t look at my watch and say, no, sorry, no time. So um we went in to pray in in Mother’s private chapel. And that, of course, was a very, very special experience.

Speaker 4: 22:30
Oh, yes.

Speaker 3: 22:31
Uh, extraordinarily spiritually um intense.

Speaker 4: 22:36
Right.

Speaker 3: 22:37
So we were praying and praying, and I was thinking, I wonder how long this is going on. Uh and uh, you know, I kind of looked up from my prayer, and there was Mother Theresa still praying. And I looked across at Diana, and she was going, you know, question, how long? What are we what’s next here? Um, so then I started praying. Please, Lord, may this prayer end soon.

Speaker 1: 24:34
We have to catch a plane, exactly. That’s a wonderful story. I always love when you hear that. Thank you so much for sharing it again with us, Patrick.

Speaker 3: 24:42
And of and of course, um, we did leave exactly on time. So always, but the moral of the story is always leave time for prayer.

Speaker 1: 24:54
By the way, speaking of Mother Teresa, of course, you met many other incredible people during uh the time with Diana. There was Bono, there was Hillary Clinton, and and many, many more. So what were the people you remember instantly and why?

Speaker 3: 25:10
It’s true, Diana. I was very fortunate in meeting, gosh, a lot of big big names. But um the rule I made for myself was it doesn’t matter who I’m meeting, I have to continue to do my job. You couldn’t afford to be distracted by the people you’re meeting or the places you were or the whatever may else be going on, right? You have to remain focused. Um and um yes, some of those sort of famous people do stay in my memory, but uh the ones you know who really stay in my memory, who meant who meant the most at the time, were not the famous faces, they were the the ones in the background or the people um way down the importance order who were just doing their job and very well, um, who had time uh to be kind or who did that extra bit that that made the difference for me between um success and big success. Uh, and I think that that was a good lesson also that um I judged, I learned to judge the so-called important people by how they treated the less important people. Yes. And um I recognized the the real heroes and the angels and the saints, uh, and just the great people were they were not the ones who were rushing up to be in the camera or to be to meet the princess. They were just doing their jobs, and they were great fun, and many of them um remain friends to this day. And many of them, in some places we traveled, you know, their their lives were at risk. Um, their families were at risk. They endured extraordinary difficulties and privations, and it always reminded me how fortunate I was, and you know, reminded me to count my own blessings. And um, that’s still something I do.

Speaker 1: 27:04
That’s true. And it’s it’s wonderful how you described this. Uh, very humble. Um, I really, really uh enjoyed listening to that, Patrick. Thank you. Um, so you resigned actually from the position a year before the tragic death of Diana. Uh, why did you find it was time to actually stop working for her and move on? When did you feel it?

Speaker 3: 27:29
I suppose there were a number of factors. You know, if you have a demanding job, an intense job, when you’re working very closely with somebody, you’re gonna have some bad days. Um, you have to be prepared for it. I sometimes have the impression that people expect every day to be to be wonderful. Um maybe for some people it is. But for me, I had some I had some very difficult times. And when you’re working closely with somebody, you have your own bad times and you have their bad times too. And you have to you have to be able to absorb their bad moves, their bad days, their bad temper, whether it’s your fault or not. Uh that’s that goes with working closely with somebody. Um so it it follows that uh in that very close sort of relationship, you have to be able to read each other’s moves, really, and to adapt for them, allow for them. There has to be complete trust. Um and when um, as inevitably it happens, you go through a bad patch. Yeah. And I went through I went through several. Um, you have to be able to develop the necessary thick skin. You have to be able to absorb the criticism. Doesn’t always come from your boss, it can can come from other people. I mean, okay, you know, royal courts throughout history have been famous for court politics, but every organization has its court. You know, they have their kings and their princes and their and their ambitious jokers, and that we all have to deal with these difficult interpersonal aspects. Um, I uh thought it was part of my job also to monitor my relationship with my boss. I always had to ask myself, how’s it going? How can I make it better? Were the threats, how things it was part of my job to make sure that things ran smoothly. And when it was apparent that there was something wrong, um I had to I had to do make a judgment as to whether or not this was just one of those difficult patches that would blow over, or whether it was something more permanent. And was there anything I could do about it? Now, I’ve since learned, and really only just last year, that um a journalist, a BBC journalist called Martin Bashir, yeah, had got to the princess through her brother, uh and had told her lies about me, libels, you know, libeless stuff.

Speaker 5: 29:55
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 29:56
Um, legally culpable things about me, intended to destroy that working trust so that he could get past me to get to her, because I would, you know, I would never have let her speaker in.

Speaker 1: 30:10
Exactly. That famous interview, right?

Speaker 3: 30:12
Yeah, and that’s and because he successfully um persuaded her that I was actually not to be trusted, yeah, uh, that two things happened. One, the relationship between me and her obviously was no longer working the way it had to. Right. And secondly, she agreed to do an interview with him, which was suicidally bad idea, very damaging, and it destroyed her um much of her royal potential.

Speaker 4: 30:43
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:44
And just on a professional level for me, that meant that I couldn’t do my job.

Speaker 4: 30:48
Right.

Speaker 3: 30:49
Um, and so when you’re in a situation like that, there are all sorts of emotions that make you want to stay, keep things going the way they were. It’s kind of like it’s kind of like a relationship, but you have to recognize when things cannot be repaired.

Speaker 5: 31:04
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:05
And you have to remember too that um you’re responsible for your own life, your own happiness, and for your family. Uh, and uh if you are in a situation where things are not going to get better, you have to leave. You have to make that decision. Um, life is long. You have to take your opportunities where they come. And if you have the courage to leave a difficult or impossible situation, um, in my experience, Providence uh will almost always bring you something else. And you just have to have the attitude and the willingness to look for it.

Speaker 1: 31:41
Yeah. Absolutely. And uh yeah, and as we all know, uh a chapter ends and a new chapter is awaiting for us, right? Um so for sure, um we all remember the night back in August in 1997 when Diana died in the tragic car crash. Do you remember where where you were at that moment and what came to your mind when you heard about it?

Speaker 3: 32:07
Um well, I resigned a year before she died. So uh we had no contact at this stage. You know, we left we we parted on bad terms, which is which is a shame. Um, so um uh and the real tragedy, Diana, is that she died thinking that I had betrayed her. That’s yeah, I know thanks to thanks to the the lies that she was told. That’s very upsetting. But yeah, uh when I got the news, I it was very early in the morning. Um and um I was terribly shocked, obviously, and and upset, but part of me almost was was not surprised. Um by that stage, she no longer had the kind of support structure that I had created, and she was uh she had put herself in the care of people who were not competent to look after her. If you study as I have, I I mean I testified at the inquest in her death. Right um she died because of incompetence, because of uh um negligence, lack of planning, um, lack of common sense, lack of of uh proper procedures.

Speaker 6: 33:24
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:25
Um and um of course uh what happened was that she had um meant that she was vulnerable to the kind of those kind of misjudgments.

Speaker 6: 33:38
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:38
Um and that was very, very, very sad. And she left a uh a gap in the in the royal family, but also I think in the world that that will never will never be filled.

Speaker 1: 33:50
And I think you you you told me that you attended the funeral, you were even kind of involved in it, right?

Speaker 3: 33:56
Well, I went to Buckingham Palace to see if I could help. You know, they had to arrange the funeral very quickly. Most royal deaths happen uh after long illnesses. We’ve just seen the death of Prince Philip. There was plenty of time to prepare for his funeral. There was no time to prepare for Diana’s funeral. So um I went to see if I could help at the palace. Um, of course, they they had taken another funeral plan off the shelf and adapted it. So there wasn’t much I was able to do. But uh the funeral itself was extraordinarily moving. The great thing was I had a seat in the Abbey, not with all the the VIPs, but with Diana’s charities. So I was I was seeing again faces uh that I hadn’t seen in years, great friendships. And so right after the funeral, we went outside uh into um Parliament Square, and it was a beautiful sunny day. And at our end of the Abbey with all these these old friends, instead of it being a sad occasion, it became a bit of a celebration. And we we you know we shared stories and memories of Diana. Um great happy things, uh, which I felt was a very suitable way to mark the day.

Speaker 1: 35:09
Oh, that’s so beautiful, indeed. Um, so what would you think? Why is Diana’s legacy still so strong? I mean, uh just the other day, you know, when she was supposed to turn 60 years old, there were lots of documentations going on on the television. And um so so many people still talk about her. So what do you think? What is it about her legacy?

Speaker 3: 35:34
Well, one reason I think we still remember her, Diana, is that um she did so much in such a short time. If you think about it, her youngest son, Harry, is now older than she was when she died. Yeah, she did all that. It’s yeah. Uh and her experience mirrors our experience. If you if you think about it, it was a mixture of of um achievement and sadness and disappointment and ultimately tragedy. Uh a lot of her life uh is mirrored in other people’s lives, and yet um the lessons she left us that it’s okay to be vulnerable and strong, yes, um, I think is it has never been more relevant. Yeah um and her combination of duty and compassion is still very relevant, and uh she did leave us a lot of great images, and it is those images, I mean, this was how we how I planned her her programs, that you could see what she was doing through the in through the images that that the world saw. Yeah, um, and unlike a lot of modern um spin doctoring, you know, news management, PR, uh, if you look, for example, at the modern royal family, they all employ PR experts, news managers. Some of them, you know, in the case of uh Harry and Megan, expert Hollywood news managers, image makers. Diana didn’t even have a press secretary.

Speaker 4: 37:11
Ah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:12
You know, you know, we had no we we we had no PR uh um contracted. We had we would borrow one of the Queen’s press secretaries for tours. Um but the rest was, and Diana believed in this. She she did her own PR. She said, you know, she did it well.

Speaker 1: 37:29
She did it well.

Speaker 3: 37:30
Yep. If you want to know what what what my message is, look at what I’m doing.

Speaker 1: 37:34
Yes. Yeah. And I think this is indeed part of the legacy we we still see. That’s wonderful. And you just mentioned Harry, actually. Um, so we all know how extremely important the kids were for Diana. So um lots of pictures have been, of course, seen, uh, how happy she was with the kids. So, what is your memory of young William and Harry?

Speaker 3: 37:57
Well, I suppose I was lucky, Diana, in that um they had a very well-organized nursery organization. Um, you know, they had nannies, they had their own protection, they had drivers, uh, and they were at school a lot of the time. Yeah. So um I didn’t I didn’t uh um go looking for them. You know, they they were noisy little boys, and I had a lot of work to do. So uh, but you know, you you came across them quite a lot. And um one very important aspect of of Diana’s life, of course, was that she should be home in time for baths and stories and all of that, which is one re one reason why her day-to-day timetable had to be so efficient, yes, so that she could get back for for important um uh William and Harry uh moments.

Speaker 5: 38:52
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:53
Uh and um of course she did bring them up uh in a different way from previous generations, not I think this is a mistake people make, not to make them feel that they were normal, yeah, because she knew their their lives would never be normal. No, but but at least to give them an understanding of what normal life was like for normal kids.

Speaker 1: 39:19
And interestingly, one of the boys decided to have a normal life now, kind of a normal life by by leaving uh the UK. So, but that’s a whole other story. Um so, Patrick, I I cannot ask you, um, you know, I have to ask you about the crown, of course. I mean, I’m sure a lot of people here listening to us, and I’m a big fan as well, uh, watch the Netflix show. Um, it’s it’s been a wonderful show on Netflix, and we have to say that you have been an uh advisor to the show, and um specifically also working with the Diana actress Emma Corin. Um, and uh we’re all desperately waiting for the new episodes to come live. And uh there will be also someone who’s uh playing Patrick Drefsen, right, on the next season. So I can’t wait for these episodes. Is there any sneak peek you can give us here?

Speaker 3: 40:13
Uh well I can say that that there is another season coming, season five. Um, and we’ve been working quite hard on that uh at the moment. Um and uh I spent some time yesterday actually talking to the actor who is going to be me.

Speaker 1: 40:28
Tom Turner.

Speaker 3: 40:29
Well, no, Tom was season four.

Speaker 1: 40:31
Um yes, I remember. Who’s the other guy?

Speaker 3: 40:33
Season five. The new one is is a great actor called Jamie Glover.

Speaker 1: 40:37
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 40:37
And um so uh it’s it’s an interesting bit of, you know, they say you have to be self-aware. Well, talking to somebody else about how to be you is a very good exercise in self-awareness. Um but it was, I mean, it’s it’s I think it’s a wonderful show, and it is not a documentary, you know, yet it’s criticized for not being accurate. Well, I can tell you it it they go to extraordinary lengths to get the detail right.

Speaker 5: 41:05
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 41:06
Um and it, you know, it is a drama. It is a it is a uh but it is authentic, in my opinion, in the sense that it portrays the characters, the dynamics, um, a lot of the issues, the politics very, very accurately. And uh I thought that Emma Coran did a fantastic job in the last season.

Speaker 4: 41:28
I agree.

Speaker 3: 41:29
And it it’s um it’s definitely, I think, a great contribution to the body of work about the royal family. And uh uh yeah, don’t miss it.

Speaker 1: 41:41
Yes, absolutely. I’m gonna definitely watch it when it’s on. So I’m wondering wonderful to see that you’re involved uh advising them. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your current work and your consultancy? Uh you’ve been mentioning that you work with clients, um also topics around crisis management, reputation uh management. These are one of these topics you cover. Uh, why don’t you give us a little insights uh on the work you’re doing together with your team?

Speaker 3: 42:09
As you can imagine, Diana, working for Diana, I learned a lot. Of uh good skills, not in theory, you know, not in school, not even in college, but but working on the job and learning very quickly. Right. Um and I thought it would be useful to transfer some of those skills to um uh provide services for clients. So I have a a consultancy here in DC with my partner Bill Beaman. Www JeffsonBeaman.com.

Speaker 1: 42:42
Yes, absolutely. We’re gonna put it in the show notes.

Speaker 3: 42:46
And and we are um we’re very fortunate. We do, I mean, our our corporate um slogan is we do interesting work for nice people.

Speaker 5: 42:56
I love that.

Speaker 3: 42:57
Well that does that does certainly include communications, um uh and uh particularly crisis communications, what to do when things go wrong, um, how to avoid things going wrong in the first place, how not to make how not to make things worse. We see this every day. Um great brands, corporations, individuals who have reputation crises, and some survive and indeed even prosper. Right. Others get into a hole and keep digging. And and that’s that’s one of the things we we work on. We also work uh one-to-one or with small groups on communication skills.

Speaker 4: 43:37
Yes.

Speaker 3: 43:38
Um, and uh I particularly work with female executives uh and um because I’m a man who’s worked for a woman, uh that’s still relatively rare and learn a lot from that. And um particularly I enjoy passing on my experiences and helping women in particular develop their unique skills because um uh so often I have found that that having worked for a very, very effective, dynamic, uh, and sometimes uh um impetuous woman boss, uh, I have been able to draw on those experiences, good and bad, to benefit to to benefit women who find themselves sometimes in very demanding and unfamiliar um leadership roles with with uh colleagues, male colleagues who need um to be managed, and I can sometimes help explain how the different mentalities work.

Speaker 1: 44:41
Yeah, absolutely. Great service you’re offering. And as I said, we’re gonna make sure we to put the website into the show notes. And here’s my final question. I can’t believe it’s already over, Patrick. So we want to hear what’s next for Patrick. Any nice uh trips planned, aviation fan, um anything you want to share with us, maybe out of your private life as well? More than welcome to do that.

Speaker 3: 45:05
Well, I uh I’m really fortunate, Diana, in that I have recently um started doing more and more work with assistants, with executive assistants, with chiefs of staff, um, with people who uh whose jobs are in some ways comparable to what mine was. And again, being able to share those experiences uh and hopefully help other people avoid some of the mistakes I made and help help them avoid some of the sleepless nights I had, uh help them avoid growing gray hair like me. That that’s something I enjoy doing. I really love doing that and would love to do more of it. Um but of course uh I yes, I retain a love of flying and aviation, so I’m hoping to do I’ve been fortunate in having quite a few aviation clients, particularly in business uh and general aviation. And uh with with luck, um watch this space, Dina. I may be doing more um uh writing and um marketing work with aviation.

Speaker 1: 46:07
Fabulous. Wow, we can’t wait for it. And um, of course, you are uh regular experts uh when it comes to coverage of uh the late princess of Wales, and it’s always good to see when you uh put some articles out there. So I can only recommend our audience to follow Patrick on LinkedIn. It’s always great stuff he puts out there. So I always appreciate sharing this and getting your views. And I always learn so much new uh when I read these articles. So thank you so much for sharing all of that with us.

Speaker 3: 46:37
Well, Anna, thank you, and everybody. Um it’s been lovely sharing this time with you and do link in with me. I look forward to hearing from you.

Speaker 1: 46:43
Absolutely. I’m gonna make sure to uh to put your LinkedIn link as well in the show notes. So reach out to Patrick and um follow him and all his journeys. And once again, thank you so much for being on the show, Patrick. Truly appreciate this talk that you had the time again, and I can’t wait to release it. And wishing you all the best. And yeah, take good care and uh all the best to the DC area.

Speaker 3: 47:07
Thank you, Dana. It’s been a real pleasure, and thank you everybody for listening.

Speaker 1: 47:11
Thank you, everybody. Take care. Well, I’m pretty much sure that you are all gonna sign up for the crown on next Netflix because um there are so many great stories to hear about the royals and to dive into this history packed um series. I’m a big, big fan. And as I said earlier, I cannot wait to see the new episodes. I cannot wait to see uh the actor that plays Patrick, of course. So we are all gonna be super curious about that. So make sure you reach out to Patrick, stay in touch with him, and if you ever need his service, uh, because he has so much in his portfolio uh to offer, not only to assistants, of course, but also to executives, managers out there. So uh he’s he’s wonderful to work with, and I um can only highly recommend reaching out to him. Uh, thank you so much, Patrick, for being with us. It was a huge pleasure, and uh can’t wait to talk to you soon.

Speaker 2: 48:10
You’re listening to the Leader Assistant Podcast!

Diana Brandl is a longtime C-Suite assistant, and host of the Executive Office Insights podcast.

In this spotlight episode, Diana speaks with the executive support team in Microsoft Germany’s CEO office.

Go behind the scenes of Microsoft Germany’s CEO Office with two inspiring women: Andrea Bross (Executive Assistant) and Svetlana Barsova (Chief of Staff). In this candid conversation, they share what it really takes to support a top executive, manage complex schedules, and keep leadership moving at full speed.

Discover:
The difference between an Executive Assistant and a Chief of Staff
How to manage the CEO Office of Microsoft Germany
Career insights and skills for assistants and chiefs of staff
Tools and strategies that keep leadership effective
Why collaboration and trust are the key to success

This episode is packed with career tips, leadership insights, and behind-the-scenes stories from the fast-paced world of Microsoft. Perfect for aspiring Executive Assistants, future Chiefs of Staff, or anyone curious about leadership support at the highest level.

ABOUT SVETLANA

Svetlana Barsova has been with Microsoft for over 14 years, spending most of that time working at Microsoft in Russia. Since 2023, she has served as Chief of Staff to Agnes Heftberger, CVP & CEO of Microsoft Germany & Austria. Svetlana enjoys engaging with other CEO Offices from our customers and is passionate about sharing how we shape our own CEO Office, foster open and transparent communication, and integrate Copilot into our daily work.

ABOUT ANDREA

Andrea Bross has been with Microsoft Germany for over 6 years and, since July 2024, has been the Executive Assistant to Agnes Heftberger, CVP & CEO of Microsoft Germany & Austria. She supports executive assistants in customer and partner organizations on their journey toward a modern and digital workplace. For the past year and a half, Copilot has become an indispensable part of Andrea’s daily work—she’s happy to demonstrate in customer workshops when and where it can be used in the assistant role. Beyond that, she’s deeply passionate about Diversity & Inclusion topics; she led the Families at Microsoft group for over 3 years and remains an active board member of the group.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.

Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.

–––

THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

Enroll in the on-demand, AI-powered professional development resource for Leader Assistants who want to level up. Learn more -> The Leader Assistant Academy.

THE LEADER ASSISTANT BOOK

Download the first 3 chapters of The Leader Assistant: Four Pillars of Game-Changing Assistant for FREE here or buy it on Amazon and listen to the audiobook on Audible. Also, check out the companion study guide, The Leader Assistant Workbook, to dig deeper.

JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

SUBSCRIBE

Subscribe to The Leader Assistant Podcast so you don’t miss new episodes!

You can find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pandora, and Stitcher.

Join my email list here if you want to get an email when a new episode goes live.

LEAVE A REVIEW

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please take 2 minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts here. Each review helps me stay motivated to keep the show going!

–––

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Diana Brandl is a longtime C-Suite assistant, and host of the Executive Office Insights podcast.

In this spotlight episode, Diana speaks with Donata Boston – former Madonna family assistant.

CONNECT WITH DONATA

• Donata on LinkedIn
• Donata’s Website

ABOUT DONATA

Donata Boston is a lifestyle solutions specialist renowned for her work with top leaders across diverse industries. With connections to elite individuals and opportunities, Donata identified the need for a more humane, comprehensive approach in traditional talent acquisition. She emphasizes intrinsic values—vision, motivation, calling, and goals—to facilitate intentional, mutually beneficial connections.

Her services, including unique talent placement, onboarding support, career development, and strategic networking, focus on the success of high-value individuals inspired to make a difference, offering a modern take on lifestyle solutions.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.

Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.

–––

THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

Enroll in the on-demand, AI-powered professional development resource for Leader Assistants who want to level up. Learn more -> The Leader Assistant Academy.

THE LEADER ASSISTANT BOOK

Download the first 3 chapters of The Leader Assistant: Four Pillars of Game-Changing Assistant for FREE here or buy it on Amazon and listen to the audiobook on Audible. Also, check out the companion study guide, The Leader Assistant Workbook, to dig deeper.

JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

SUBSCRIBE

Subscribe to The Leader Assistant Podcast so you don’t miss new episodes!

You can find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pandora, and Stitcher.

Join my email list here if you want to get an email when a new episode goes live.

LEAVE A REVIEW

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please take 2 minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts here. Each review helps me stay motivated to keep the show going!

–––

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Speaker: 00:46
Today I’m excited to spotlight my friend Diana Brandl’s show called Executive Office Insights. Diana has had some amazing interviews over the years on her show, which I will link to in the show notes, so be sure to check that out.

Speaker 1: 01:02
In the meantime, enjoy this featured episode from Diana’s show – leaderassistant.com/367.

Speaker 5: 01:34
Former EA to Madonna, she also held positions such as chief of staff, grant manager, head of people, and she has been serving in various industries such as music, entertainment, fashion, and finance. So uh the wonderful Donata Boston is my guest today, and every time I talk to her, I’m always fascinated by the things she really puts into perspective, especially those of us transforming and transitioning in our careers. So um she held various functions and now she’s a successful entrepreneur. Um she is a matchmaker, she works in recruiting, she works with a lot of talents, and she brings people together, and um she does it in such a wonderful way because she is a people manager. You can really tell that from the way she speaks, and it’s wonderful to have her here as an extraordinary role model out there for our industry. So um I wish you lots of fun listening and watching this episode.

Speaker 4: 02:34
Welcome everybody to the podcast of Future Assistant, a podcast full of inspiration, encouragement, and empowerment for administrative professionals. Tune in, level up, and get motivated by the stories you are about to hear.

Speaker 5: 02:59
I know a lot of you have been waiting for it, and um, me too, honestly, because I wanted to bring you that special guest who’s gonna be part of the show today. And there’s so much to tell you about the wonderful Donata, and yes, I’m pronouncing it in a very German way because there’s a reason why I pronounce it this way. But first of all, a warm welcome to Donata Boston. Hello to you, my dear.

Speaker 2: 03:22
Hi, hi, I’m so excited to be here. So let us so nice to it’s so nice to connect with you again.

Speaker 3: 03:29
I just wanted to let you know it’s been a while. I know we’ve been sort of keeping in touch from a distance, but it’s nice to finally be back together and have this conversation.

Speaker 5: 03:39
Totally. And I remember when we had the live event and we had so many assistants over from Austria, Switzerland, all over Europe, uh, that they have been enjoying the talk so much. So you were so long on my list to have you at the podcast here, and I’m so happy that we finally make it happen. And maybe a few people were actually wondering why I kind of pronounced the name Donata in a very German way, because there is some history. Do you want to share the history with us?

Speaker 3: 04:06
Yeah, so actually, my dad is German and my mom is Haitian. So I grew up in Germany for most of my childhood. So I was born in the US and we stayed here until I was about three years old. But my whole schooling and my whole really formative years were spent in Hamburg, Germany. So that’s where so I speak German, and um, that’s really where my roots are. That’s really where what I identify with most is that German heritage and those years spent in Germany. So I’m so excited to be here and to talk to this audience.

Speaker 5: 04:41
Absolutely. And uh I mean, Hamburg is really a special city. I always enjoy going there whenever I have a client there. I’m actually going there twice this year. So I will think of you for sure. Um let’s see, let’s see how it goes because Hamburg is always tricky when it comes to the weather, probably, as you know. You get lucky or not.

Speaker 3: 05:01
Yes, that’s right. And you know what? It’s so interesting because I live in in Los Angeles now, right? Where it’s the sun’s always shining, and there’s a part of my soul that just craves the dark skies, craves the rain, because I’m so familiar with it. So when it rains here, it just feels like home.

Speaker 5: 05:18
It’s kind of wild. Yeah, we can help you with that. I’m happy to send some rain awards a lot, what we have right now. So happy to treat the the LA sun. We can do a house swap. Absolutely. But do is LA your home now? I mean, is everything there when you feel this is the roots now?

Speaker 3: 05:37
It’s so interesting. You know, I just really consider myself a butterfly a little bit. I feel like um the more I’m in motion, the more I get to change sceneries, meet people from all walks of life, the more I feel alive. Um, Los Angeles is definitely my um sort of center of gravity at this point because my kids are going to school here. I have kids that are now six and seven. So it’s sort of more challenging to be that nomadic as you are. Um, but um I would say Los Angeles has provided me with some incredible human connections that I value a lot and that I’ve built my business on now. That being said, I always get really energized and inspired by traveling and by exploring different regions in the US and all and obviously worldwide in Europe in particular.

Speaker 5: 06:35
We need to get you back to Europe for sure. I mean, we need to make plans. Yes. That would be so awesome to be here with you, actually.

Speaker 3: 06:43
Um, you know, we’ve talked about this in the past, right? Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 5: 06:47
So, you know, everyone listening, we need to get her here. So um make sure you connect, of course, with Samata. But uh, first of all, we have so much to to talk about. Um we are actually right now uh ending May. Um and this podcast goes out you know quite fast. So uh once it is live is gonna be June. So kind of a halftime 2024. So, how would you say how’s 2024 treating you so far?

Speaker 3: 07:16
So 2024 and even like the years prior to that have been have felt like a huge transition point in my life and in my career. I think a lot of people have felt this way. A lot of it stems from the pandemic for sure. I think there’s just something that happened over the last four years to question a little bit around, you know, what why am I here? What am I here to do? What is my calling? People have been asking more and more of those questions and trying to connect back to their core, to really understanding who they are, how they operate, what makes them different, what I call their your secret sauce, right? It like what is it that you are uniquely designed to bring to this world? And I think especially when you are more of that service, you have that service mentality when you’ve been an assistant, when you’ve been a chief of staff, when you’ve been in that world for so long, you kind of give away so much of who you are to be of service to somebody else, that um there just comes this moment of self-reflection of like, wait a minute, what am what do I want out of life? And how can I start intentionally designing my life and my career around who I am at the at the soul level, right? And so that I’ve been a part of that where it’s been, I’ve always been really into spirituality and self-reflection. But um, as times have evolved and circumstance our circumstances have changed so much, there was this pivotal point over the last, I think, three years where it was like, okay, it’s go time. Like you’ve been thinking and you’ve been talking so much about wanting to be a coach, about wanting to be of service to other assistants and really guiding them through the these transition points that you’re experiencing, that you’ve experienced in the past, it’s now or never. And so I’ve really started betting on myself and saying it’s it’s time to it’s time to start making that transition. And it’s been incredible, an incredible experience. And I think a lot of what we’re going to talk about today is really how we navigate these moments of transitions together.

Speaker 5: 11:01
Totally. So, you know, looking into the daily routines of Donata, I mean, when you go into reflection mode, is it on a daily base as well? Do you scribble down things in a journal? Or do you have like a mind map or a vision board? Or do you sit down with yourself once a week? Just uh let us know how you do it that you you really have commitment with yourself.

Speaker 3: 11:23
Yeah, that’s such a good question because and I get that question a lot because people always want to know what’s the hack, right? Like, how do you get to connect back to your intuition, to disconnect from the noise, from the external need for validation to sort of come back to what do I want? Um, I mean, I dabble in all of it, to be honest. I’m very exploratory, very curious, and very open to a lot of things. So I’ve done, I do a lot of nature walks. Actually, nature really centers me so much, especially when you have a crazy wild household like I do with kids, with animals, grandmas here. You know, like there’s just so much that comes at you every day. I really need those, even if it’s like 20 minutes, I need these to consistently have some time to just be on my own and to be in silence. Sometimes I’ll listen to a walking meditation or a podcast, but for the most part, really being it, right? So, but for the most part, I recognize there’s so much information coming at me that moments of silence, and it’s so simple, right? Nature and silence, it’s free. It’s literally available for the most part every day. Just taking that time though and being consistent with it to just say, okay, wait a minute. A moment of just me with me and creating the space to even hear what’s going on underneath the surface outside of constantly performing. That to me is the precious time. Yeah, on top of that, I do, I mean, there’s this program that I do here. My neighbor actually created it. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Lacey Phillips. Um, she has another podcast that is all about manifesting the life of your dreams, manifesting your career. She has a platform that I utilize to do meditations, but it’s more active self-reflection and working on specific blocks that you recognize in the flow of life and the flow of your career. I love that. I’ve dabbled in plant medicine as well. I’ve done ayahuasca ceremonies, I’ve done all sorts of different alternative options just to see what’s out there because I love to provide those resources to the people that I coach, to the people that I help navigate their own um trajectories.

Speaker 5: 13:40
Yeah, and we need to make sure that we put a few information in the show the show notes, you know. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 13:46
We love to share.

Speaker 5: 13:47
Yeah. Absolutely. And also I really want to recommend because you mentioned that the the walking meditation, what I also love to do, there’s a lady called Jell Hamilton out there. Um, the meditation minis. You’re awesome to find this out because uh I will also make sure to put in the show notes. I love her. Yeah, she has a great voice, and it’s shorter, you know, meditations and some walking meditations there as well. So I definitely have to send you the link over.

Speaker 3: 14:12
I will say, I will say one thing to be honest. Let me just find uh my pen. Um, I will say that for a lot of us, we think that it’s and I was one of them, right? When you hear about meditation at first, and if you’ve never done it before, or even if you’ve started doing it and you just start getting this voice that tells you you’re not doing it right or you’re not doing enough, or it’s it’s really just about taking the time to disconnect. So if you don’t have access to these meditations, even though everything’s available now, I really urge everyone to even just take the time to sit in the discomfort of silence. You won’t believe how valuable that can be. And you won’t believe how much actually happens in the nothingness, right? Because that is such gold nowadays because we’re running so fast, so much going on that you just do it consistently. Don’t expect to do that and then wake up and be like, okay, what’s going on? Has anything changed? It’s not about the outcome, it’s about just showing up for yourself and then seeing how these micro changes start happening in your life. Yes. Um, it’s subtle, it’s subtle at first. It can be big, but it can be subtle too. So just keep at it.

Speaker 5: 15:36
Very good advice. And I think it’s a good reminder for those of us listening to our conversation who are always running and the hamster wheel never stops. And I’m one of them. So um, yes, and exactly nature is really one of my greatest gifts. Um, walking, sitting out there listening to the nature or listening in the nature to a podcast. So very happy to see that you have some similar routines because they’re really, really helpful for me. So um tell us about actually a little bit about yourself. I mean, um, Donata, the German history, we heard about it, and then all of a sudden there’s a last name called Boston. Do you actually have any connections with Boston? Or it’s just, you know, the name that obviously is a part of your family. But you know, what else do you want to share with us before we dive a little bit into your career?

Speaker 3: 16:28
Yeah, so um my um my maiden name was actually Martin, which is like very the most standard German but also international name ever. Um I so I grew up in Germany, loved my childhood. Like looking back, probably not you don’t know how to appreciate things when you’re in it, but looking back, I had sort of a really idyllic childhood with a very international family and background. So we traveled a lot. We’ve been, we ex we, my parents exposed us to a lot of different cultures, a lot of different um yeah, types of people and environments at an early age. My mom was a flight attendant, so we were very mobile. Um, but I had these really strong German roots and then went to French school as well. So my mom is a French speaker. So by nature, the the picture of my childhood was just injected with many cultures, many different um types of people that surrounded us. And I think that really informed sort of the trajectory that I took with my career, being really open to just picking up and leaving and trying new things, just always very curious. And I think that really stemmed from the way we were raised as kids. Um, I started studying in Paris after I graduated high school, just because it was the natural um extension to my French schooling in high school. Um, went to the Sorbonne in Paris and studied international business. And again, met so many wonderful people from all types of different backgrounds until once I started working in Paris and realized things were just slow moving, right? You’re fresh out of college, the French do things, tend to be just like very um mindful of work-life balance. But when you’re young and you have this fire in your belly, you sort of want to go out there and you want to prove yourself and you want to see what’s available. Everyone around me was urging me to move to the US because I had my uh the passport, right? I had the citizenship, and it was the last thing on my list, to be honest. I just felt so European at my core. But then it came to a point where I was like, you know what? Just let’s just see what happens. Just go out there, see what happens. Paris is not going anywhere, you could always come back. And so I went to New York. My sister was living there at the time and just started exploring again. It was, it happened to be 2008, so there were no jobs available, and especially for someone who was just so fresh out of college and just had dabbled in event planning. There wasn’t really much of substance available to me. So it was one of the big transition points, right, of my life, where it was like, wait, what am I doing here? And also, what urged you to just pick up and leave and move to New York? It was almost like I was guided by something greater than myself that was just like, just go, just give it a shot, just try it out. And once I got there, and after looking for a couple of months, I just really fell into the job of a family assistant slash nanny for Madonna. And yeah, just this whole new world opened up that, and I heard I’m sure you hear that a lot. I certainly do now that I’m, you know, uh I do recruiting, is that for the most part, it chooses you. You know, it’s the type of role that it’s really hard to design uh entering this career. Um it it sort of chooses you, and then it’s a matter of can you, do you have the chops? And are you designed to do what it takes to make that career happen for yourself? And that was very much my story as well.

Speaker 5: 20:26
And you know, you know, working for such an icon at an early stage in your career, I mean, was there are are there still the finch me moments in in your life where you’re feeling like they found the opportunity?

Speaker 3: 20:39
You know, it’s so interesting because looking back, I was just happy to have a job. You know, at that point it was, yes, it was very surreal and obviously not something I had on my bingo card, but I was just so grateful to have somebody, anybody, uh, willing to bet on me and willing to give me a chance. And even throughout working in this profession, and maybe that is part of um the reason for my success, is that it never really dawned on me. I never made the connection of who my bosses were to the public and who they who they were to me and and what I needed to focus on to be good at my job, which is so different, right? Like you can’t really get sucked into the the noise of what they what their profession is and what you are there to do to really serve at the highest level, which is would which has to stem from a level of humanity. Like you can’t get distracted by the performance of it all, and like no pun intended in this case, but it’s all it’s all very performative at the end. And what happens behind closed doors is just so different, and what the needs are there are so different that unless you’re really connected to who you are and how you can be of service to that, you’re not going to be performing at the highest level. And so, for whatever reason, right? Like I don’t know. We my sister actually started working with me as well. same household for we we kept asking ourselves what is it how come it the the the the the glitz of it was sort of the last thing on the list that that mattered in the job it’s obviously very um it’s a novelty right to go on the private jets and to go to the concerts and to to live that that that big life as an adjacent partner but it it truly isn’t what makes the job special what makes the job special for me was always the people it was always it was the the family making sure everyone was taken care of making sure that the the team dynamic was operating as at its highest there’s you put so many hours in you put so much effort into it that unless you’re connected to something greater than yourself you just can’t it’s not sustainable totally it wouldn’t have been for me you know absolutely yeah and um and that is so important that we talk about these things because um there’s always a certain image out there that you feel like oh I want to work for certain people I want to work in a certain business right so that’s why I’m always so happy to bring so many wonderful role models and experts to the podcast who give some some more information about it.

Speaker 5: 23:34
We had you know um a celebrity recruiter um last year um who gave away so many information about you know it’s not always a good life out there not always the fancy stuff and putting in a lot of hours you mentioned it before I think it’s it’s really um important to see the realistic um job profile behind um but still I mean I can only imagine how many wonderful takeaways you you get out of the role um working for a Madonna and the family behind what what do you see was my two to three learnings out of this time I think so I and I reflect on this a lot in what I do now.

Speaker 3: 24:13
I think the biggest uh gift and and unfortunately I wasn’t really guided at the time right I kind of fell into it and I was kind of winging it for so long in my career. And I understood that I had something special that was needed and that I was able to enjoy this type of work and that I was doing it so genuinely and authentically from a place of service, which always kept me going. But it wasn’t until recently that I really realized the the gold that was there. And that’s something that I like to share with the candidates that I work with now who are still in these types of roles is look around. You are in contact with the greatest leaders of our time there’s so much that you get to draw from the way they move the way they think the way they operate operate you have the front row seat to brill a brilliant mind right whoever we are and whoever we’re supporting and in whatever industry they are you’re working with brilliant minds pay attention right like as much as you’re there to get your job done always pay attention to what’s going on around you witness the patterns because success always leaves clues and if we are awake to our experience and not so much focus on what’s not working and you know how how difficult certain days can be and that can re it can really wear on you. I’m not disregarding that but outside of that if you connect to the goal that is there and the fact that you are basically getting paid to learn from the best of the best there’s just another level of motivation that ignites inside of you. And I’ve always had like I said this curious mind. So I was always paying attention to okay what is happening? How are people how are we operating here at the highest level and how can I now bring that into my next experience whenever that comes the other thing is you get hopefully you are in an industry that speaks to you. And so you also get a lot of industry knowledge again you’re getting paid for training in how does the music world operate outside of the person that I work with what who are who are the agents who are the managers what do they do exactly who are the publicists and who are the other artists around me and how do do they operate? And there’s just so much that you can pick up on that and you wouldn’t believe how much of that will serve you later on even though it’s hard to see it in the moment. I just read this incredible book I don’t know if you’ve read it called Range by David Epstein and it speaks on how generalists can actually be the most innovative disruptors and specialists because they’re exposed to so many different industries and environments and they have a collection of data that is so much greater than when you just stay on this one track. And I believe that for myself and I think for most assistants we are these generalists right we are willing to do whatever it takes we’re we’re typically not necessarily specifically interested in it in one industry. We’re just there to be of service but even if you are if you already know that you love the music industry for instance and you fall into it you are now operating at the highest level supporting someone who has all the doors open and you get to see things that most people don’t right everything that’s happening behind the scenes. So again paying attention to that taking note making sure that you understand you are sitting on a gold mine wherever you are and none of it will be wasted along the way once you start deciding what you are specifically designed to do all of it will matter. All of it will play a role and then for me it was always about the team dynamics. It was always about really understanding okay how do teams operate at the highest level? Who are the special ones who what makes really incredible talent? Who gets acknowledged for what they’re doing? What kind of a mindset does it take to really operate at the highest level and to be recognized for the effort that is put into it. So I always really valued talking to my colleagues understanding what they were struggling with, understanding what the needs are in these like really high level support structures and obviously that’s like incredibly useful now because I helped design these support structures for the people I used to work with for absolutely it prepared you so well right from the beginning on and then which is also what I find very interesting about your bio is that you transferred that into a chief of staff role and we now read a lot about the chief of staff and how you get there from an EA role.

Speaker 5: 29:30
So maybe you want to share a little bit of your advice here what was different when you became a chief of staff um was there a different setting was there a different mindset from from you when you transformed into this role because um I think there’s a lot of you know different opinions out there when we look into LinkedIn and some articles around um chief of staff some of them say it’s super easy to get into this role coming out of the EA role other people say oh no you need to be a very um senior citizen to get into this role and you actually need to have the right you know equipment um and we we do have different systems here over in Europe as well. So when I look into chief of staff’s roles out there in major corporations they’re sometimes lawyers you know totally different background so I think every company probably also what you see with your clients at the moment is designing the role a little bit different but how did you 100% how did you feel when you made the transition yeah again I think I have a little bit of a forestrum story I feel like you know I was never really fully aware of what was happening.

Speaker 3: 30:35
I was just like oh yeah this sounds great let me just do it I think I and I don’t even want to attribute it to luck only I think it was this naive willingness to just go for it. I was always game I was always willing to say yep let me try it out you know and and sure there are these moments of the imposter syndrome kicks in and you’re like wait am I equipped for this but that was really quite um it wasn’t very loud in in this in this like these per first formative years of my career it was more about the curiosity really took over and I wanted to learn so much of what I was capable of. And if anybody was willing to give me a chance I was willing to show up and at least give it a try. And that’s the other thing I think we’re so we want to do such a good job when we’re assistants, right? We are just such people pleasers and we’re such perfectionists for the most part and we have to recognize we know that just holds you back oftentimes when it comes to just trying something different trying something new stretching way beyond what you’re accustomed to. So when I did the transition I went from the entertainment world into finance which is such a different environment for some reason my boss my new um sort of principal at that time had very similar character traits to my previous boss and so I found myself sort of transitioning with ease into this new environment. But as chief of staff what I recognized is I grew such such a strong level of self-confidence coming out of the Madonna job because I’m like look at me like I rocked this like I did I did what I needed to do and I really enjoyed the process. I think there was something really empowering knowing that I that I lasted so long in that job because it is a strenuous environment when you’re there 247 and you’re you’re you know you’re connected to everything that’s going on and it’s it’s every day to then coming into a role that was more of an office job already felt like I can do this in my sleep and and then also feeling that empowered from that experience I think I it’s it’s so crazy how much how you feel about yourself dictates how you’re received by others. It’s so it’s so um it’s so incredible to see when we connect deeply to who we are and to what our superpower is and in that moment that was really the case for me because I felt I was feeling myself right you people see you really by the way you present yourself. And so in that moment I think um they were looking for somebody who had a different type of background they weren’t looking for someone who was in the financial world and when they met me with my sort of very diverse um upbringing the um international piece I think was really important. But then also the fact that yeah I came from a background that felt a little bit glitzy and they wanted to attract that into their office it just felt like the right match and then it was more of a matter of can I show up and can I be um can I be game can I be really open to receiving all the information that was coming at me I learned things I’d never been exposed to before or had interest in right like the financial world is such a different beast and I just absorbed it like a sponge. You know I just was so excited to learn about how the private equity world operates who are the players what are the terms that they’re using and I just remember taking notes of everything and just learning on the fly and it was just incredible and I can only imagine how this also helped you massively to go into entrepreneurship right because absolutely the finance world you know this is something that we as entrepreneurs of course need to consider in so many directions.

Speaker 5: 34:57
So tell us a little bit you know when was this inner voice all of a sudden there that you felt now is time to do my own thing I want to I want to be my own CEO.

Speaker 3: 35:06
So there there are many like chapters in between that experience and where I am today but what I would say is um it for me the the true con true confidence can only be ignited in um the experience it’s really hard to have a connection to what you’re capable of simply by self-reflecting right or or to just be in the in the conceptual oh I could do this I could do that until you get your feet your and your hands in to the dirt and you start really seeing what you’re capable of you’re not going to fully feel connected to that confidence. You could talk yourself into it but it’s more a matter of yeah go in there like be be fully in the game and show up and pay attention and be curious. So from being in private equity I got pregnant actually like I was in there for seven years. So did that for extensive period of time. And what I want to say about the chief of staff role too is there’s so many different versions of that title right and so it really depends what it is that the specific like you said the specific industry or the specific company that you’re looking at is looking for there’s no no two chief of staff roles are the same. In my situation it just happened that they were looking for somebody who had my level of experience and somebody who was willing to really focus on the employee um development side of things which is what I love to do more than anything. Oh my God. It’s like and and this is where I recognize wow this is really something and this matters I think oftentimes we’re good at something and we sort of take it for granted but my love for people was what really was the right fit here. So if you’re looking for to explore a chief of staff role just to go back to your previous question I think it’s really it’s even more so important to understand what your secret sauce is, what your superpower is and to find the type of chief of staff role that really caters to that, that really is in need of that. Because if you’re a great executive assistant, I don’t care if you’ve been a senior executive assistant or if you’ve just done it for a certain number of time, you’ve got it down you’ve got the basics down. So the natural progression is just to get into higher level of leadership where you have a seat at the table to me that’s what chief of staff meant is where my voice is really heard and recognized and I’m not simply executing upon tasks that are sort of given to me I get to now contribute. I have a voice I have a point of view I have a perspective to share and when it came to the employees I always had an I always had an opinion I always had a way to innovate the way we connected to each other. So that was natural to me. What is that for you? What is it that keeps you up at night? What is it that really speaks to your soul that you feel like you would do whether you got paid or not this is like what makes you feel so alive and motivated. Once you connect to that and you find the type of role that A needs your basic skill sets but then also needs your voice in the matter because you have an opinion that’s where I think a chief of staff role or any other title that you can imagine in that like it could be a director of operations could be anything right these roles are just waiting for somebody like you who is just moved by the topic at hand. So when it came to my transition point I moved so I got pregnant uh which didn’t mean I had to stop working obviously but I think for me it just became a moment of deep deep self-reflection and another pivotal transition point where I recognized wow the I was operating at such a high velocity for so many years and never took a break it was time for me to just like go inward go inward and slow down and be really present. I knew the type of matter that I wanted to be was a very present one but I also knew that I that work really mattered to me right and like having my own um self-expression in work mattered to me a lot. So I just took a little bit of time once I had my baby to figure out okay what what’s the balance right I had I never had balance I was all into my career and um it took me a little bit of time to figure out okay I could like dip my toes back in. I felt like the chapter of private equity was sort of closing for me. I didn’t know that I could do it any other way but all in and that wasn’t possible with the baby the way I viewed motherhood. So I started working as a brand manager for a in a fashion uh company and just opened up their US branch and sort of designed the team designed the office and did what I knew to do best. Felt like a bit of a step backwards but it really felt so in line with what I wanted to explore like how does it feel to just do it on my own there was no scratch right and build it up from scratch exactly just taking all of the information that I’ve learned now seeing people operate at the highest level and now designing my own team and then also scaling back on the amount of hours it was more of a job where I got to go in and clock out. I didn’t take any of it home you know what I mean which was new to me to everything was always I was living and breathing the my previous roles 247. So this felt like a nice little balance. And I just want to also encourage everyone listening if you’re going through big transition points in your life and you feel like you have to show up in a different way failure is the biggest lesson the biggest lessons that I’ve learned came from quote unquote failure or quote unquote scaling back or taking steps backwards. It can feel like it’s not our progression is not linear especially when you’re a generalist especially when you’re curious about a million different things give yourself permission to explore everything that gets your attention because I think this idea that things have to be linear and that if you start something you have to see it through and grit and determination I think that’s wonderful. Those are wonderful qualities but not at the expense of your soul. Absolutely not at the expense of your intuition telling you this doesn’t feel right. Like it’s great on paper. And I often say the people who love us the most tend to give us the worst advice when it comes to taking risks and jumping off cliffs. And not doing things traditionally, right? Like my mom, like you turn to the people who’ve known you the longest, they’re not going to tell you quit. You have to really be resourceful. Know who your advisors are in the moments of transitions and of taking risks. And most importantly, listen to your gut. Like, listen to your intuition. Because I can’t tell you how many times that has served me when I could have stayed much longer. The private equity job is a perfect example. I could have said, no, this is my bread and butter. This is, I’m so lucky to have this job. But then it would have come to at the expense of who I wanted to be as a mom, who I authentically want to be in my life and in my business. So that transition, yes, to in a way felt very different. It felt so like there was so much space, there was so much time all of a sudden to do things that mattered to me. And this is when I started also doing my um yoga teacher training. And I got into more of that spiritual um self-discovery track, right? That to figure out, okay, who am I at my core? I’ve given given so much of me to others. Now it’s time to give back to myself because I won’t be able to show up as a great mother unless I figure out who I am, right? And I’m I’m authentically showing up.

Speaker 5: 43:38
So you really stayed, you know, true to your values, I believe, and then transition as well. Like the way you view motherhood, as you said before, which I love that you pointed this out because I know we do have a lot of listeners here who have similar situations, like there’s a career, there’s a family, there’s you know, voluntary, uh voluntary projects, there’s passion projects. Um, where do I belong right now? Right. Um so you spoke about advisors, and I I keep wondering who were your advisors on on this journey, especially then going into your own, you know, uh business and having the consultancy and everything, and you know, uh opening up into some new fields, right? Who’s who’s your sounding board?

Speaker 3: 44:24
Yeah, so it’s it I have I have my it’s it’s sort of like my committee of advisors for different aspects of career. So I think for me it’s been really important to understand if I want to, like I said, jump off a cliff and take risk and go off and do my own thing. Who are the people who’ve either done this before or who are um risk takers in general and who are willing to give me advice that’s not going to that are can be devil’s advocate but are not going to hold me back from taking the risk? I wouldn’t go to my mom with all due respect. She’s here in this house.

Speaker 2: 45:05
But like I wouldn’t, you know what I mean? Because I knew you’re gonna keep you safe. She was going to want to keep me. She’s going to be like, what are you talking about? This is so my mom. So yes.

Speaker 5: 45:15
And I was the second child going into entrepreneurship after my brother. So she was like, Yeah, tell me about what went wrong. What went wrong? She said, I said, everything was wrong. That’s right.

Speaker 3: 45:26
That’s right. But like in those moments, we have to, we have like, I’m I’m I’m able to speak about this now with such confidence. But the amount of times that I was questioning myself, it’s not, it’s not an easy path. Like, even like that transition point into brand management, felt like, oh my God, like, is this am I doing the right move? Had I gone to the people who just want to keep me safe and cozy and who don’t recognize what my soul was yearning for, you can’t expect other people around you to understand what your soul is calling for. Your calling is your calling for a reason, right? So we have to sort of disconnect from that noise and from the need for external validation and stay true to ourselves. Is that what was that true to you as well in that moment? Absolutely, absolutely. And so, and so that’s that is also the best way that we can start. People ask me all the time, how do I reconnect to my intuition? I feel like it’s been there. I remember as a child, I was so intuitive, but I’ve lost it. But it’s always there. The thing is, you have to start listening to it. You have to start taking baby steps into taking this exquisite risk of, I’m gonna bet on myself. This just seems to be the right answer. Let me just try it and not make it such a big deal. You can always pivot. There’s always an opportunity to pivot. There’s no, it’s not the final answer, right? So, from brand management, I went into becoming head of people for a step for a tech startup in Miami, which was like the dream, right? Like being in charge of the people. I learned so much about the onboarding process at the highest level. Tech startups, they don’t mess around. Like when it comes to onboarding, there’s they’re so cutting edge and so systematized in the way they approach um, yeah, just talent acquisition. And then the like they take into account the full life cycle of the employee from the moment they start recruiting to the exit of an employee, everything is so thorough and thought through and efficient. So I got exposed to that, and it was like my mind was blown. Like the amount of efficiency, and I want to speak about AI a little bit here, too, is AI is such an incredible tool that we can utilize wherever we are to um support us in injecting way more humanity into the businesses that we’re in. And that is at the foundation of everything I do. It’s all about bringing more humanity into business, connecting to humans, taking the time to dig a little bit deeper. And so now I’m this luxury lifestyle support consultant to the people that I use to support. And the reason why I can do things on a very modern level is that I’m not afraid of it. I utilize it to create the efficiency that I need so I can show up on a human level and really connect to the talent, really understand how my clients operate and be able to make incredible, fruitful, long-term connections.

Speaker 5: 48:46
What’s your favorite tool, actually? What are you using? Give us some examples where you feel like, oh, this is my number one go-to.

Speaker 3: 48:54
I mean, I think anything I would tell people anything that feels like a distraction from what you’re truly great at, if there is a tool out there that can systematize it for you, use it and create a really strong foundation for yourself so that you don’t get stuck in the weeds of, I mean, even just from utilizing um the tools to pay your bills, to um do your accounting, to like all the administrative stuff, which ironically, I want to do none of that for myself. Like I want it to either be, I want it to be handed off to someone, it’s just not where I shine. I can do it in my sleep. It just becomes an energy drain. And I want to stay stuck in my zone of genius, which is the human connection. It’s really about getting to understand how people function. So from um utilizing tools like, I mean, Airtable is a great one, right? Like, I don’t know that we can survive without it. Um, I utilize Chat GPT for anything that has to do with copywriting. I always give it my spin. I always edit it according to my tone. I think it can only do so much. But to be able to summarize things, the using otter, and I think there’s a new platform actually that takes notes for all of my um candidate interviews and being able to really draft up these reports that you used to take forever. Um, I use video recording for um and video interviews for scouting new talents, making sure that I don’t spend all day on Zoom meeting people that may not be the right fit. So being able to systematize that and to be able to pick out from the people I interview over a video, hey, I want to meet you. Like you sound amazing. So anything that can contribute to that efficiency where I get to do what I love and what I’m really, really great at 80% of the time. To me, that is what opens up doors, what brings in more opportunity, because you’re really able to shine and to attract those opportunities into your orbit.

Speaker 5: 51:03
Absolutely. It’s wonderful. And thank you so much for bringing this up because everyone speaks about AI and how we can integrate it into trial businesses and private life. So very happy to see that you use it as well. I’m a big fan.

Speaker 3: 51:14
Yeah, what is it? What do you use for like your podcasts or anything like that? What are the tools that you use the most?

Speaker 5: 51:20
For the podcast, I don’t use anything at all because I’m uh I’m having my expert, Sebastian, who’s taking care of everything. Amazing. But of course, I’m a big fan of ChatGPT, Microsoft Copilot, um, people, people write, you know, all these wonderful things. I have my Calendly, people can, you know, easily make appointments with me. There’s AI behind, as we know, tons of wonderful things out there. So um especially interesting entrepreneurs, we can’t use them very nicely. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 51:49
Absolutely. I think that the threat of AI is so interesting because at first you feel like, oh, everyone’s becoming disposable, right? And the truth is, I think what it’s highlighting for me is that never before has it been so important to leverage our human connections, to leverage the actual networking that you’re doing outside of even social media, which is a great tool to cast a white net and meet a lot of people and to share what you’re about. But for me, it’s all been in the networking. That’s another thing. Wherever you are right now, whatever job you hold, don’t like it’s all about your connections. Create really strong connections wherever you are, no matter how you’re feeling about your job, whether you’re loving it or it’s really, it’s really a struggle. Look around who are your people in this space that you’re in right now, because I guarantee you, you will need those. And you’re this incredible connector, I’ve noticed. Like we’re very similar this way, where for me, I’m a master connector. Nothing brings me more joy than to bring people together. I’m all about connecting exceptional, exceptional humans at every level from the recruiting, but also from all the different solutions that we can provide to our clients, right? When a client comes in, no matter what their needs are, whether they need a realtor, a new dentist, or they need a great executive assistant, a housekeeper, whatever it may be, there’s a solution for all of it. And my motto is always no man left behind. So I’m going to automatically tap into all of my resources and all the people surrounding me, as I’ve done with you, um, of saying, hey, do you know anyone that can solve this problem for my client?

Speaker 5: 53:40
Right. It’s really indeed another thing that is similar, right? And that we both have a common. Yeah. Because, you know, um, connecting people and and growing together, that’s that’s really, really wonderful. And um I love to see when there’s new output, you know, uh developing out of the connections I I made. And I know you’re all the same.

Speaker 3: 53:59
So the thing is with and the thing with networking, real quick too, is it’s not networking for networking’s sake. There’s something really um off-putting, especially when you live in a city like LA, um, where people are just it’s very much about being self-serving. And you can tell when somebody is networking just for the sake of having another name in their LinkedIn connection, or if people are doing it genuinely because they’re connecting with you, because they’re present with you. And so understanding who you are in this process of career transition from a generalist to a specialist, and everything that’s revealed to you about what your secret sauce is is also an indication of who your people are, who are the people around you who operate at the same level. And for me, it’s all about the people who are high, what I call them high-quality humans. It’s the people who are really connected to something greater than themselves. And I don’t mean this in a like religious or spiritual way necessarily, but it’s more so I’m here for a reason. You can tell when somebody has that sparkle in their eyes and they’re like, whatever it is that I’m doing, even if I’m bussing tables or if I’m, you know, Madonna’s assistant, I’m doing it at the highest level. I’m fully connected to what I’m doing and I’m and I’m going to do it, my, give it my everything. Those are the people, both on the client side and on the talent side, that I love to connect with each other. Because the truth is we need each other. We talk about networking. It’s all about connecting the right humans with each other. And what is possible from there is pure magic. I see it over and over again. And I couldn’t have built my own business if it wasn’t for my collaborations and my network and being able to get really creative, working with people on their projects, then working with me on mine, and being able to just connect to that joint mission that we have, right?

Speaker 5: 56:03
And it seems that there’s a mission for you out there, Donato, because uh, as you were telling, one of the functions was ahead of people, right? Yeah. So there was always a connection with people, with humans. Always. Um, so that this is this is really your mission out there, right? So um Yeah. So tell us about the work you do right now. We we heard a little bit about being a coach, being a consultant, being a recruiter. So tell us a little bit about the consultancy you have and the way you work and who are your clients actually.

Speaker 3: 56:35
Yeah, so when I I think really that that last piece was that head of people role for the the tech startup, when I realized how much I really loved talking to talent, how I loved making the connection and how good I was, to be honest. Like I just there’s something about the recruiting world that felt really stale to me. Um, always, even at a younger age, when I did my own transitions and I worked with agencies, it just felt like there wasn’t real candidate advocacy that was there. You know, it was all about the clients and like pleasing the clients and making sure that the commission seemed to be a really big piece of it, versus really being present, really thinking through the greater career trajectory and how one opportunity can serve the next. Also, when we go through career transitions, we’re in a very vulnerable place, right? We talked about this imposter syndrome, the fear of making the right choices, the right moves. So for me, being able to be the person that I didn’t have at the time when I was navigating these transitions felt like such a calling. And, you know, oftentimes they say we create our purpose from our pain. And it’s because we want to become the people we wish we had when we were going through similar situations. So that just that was like a moment of clarity of, okay, I’ve been doing the coaching at the time. I was already coaching assistants, but also other professionals and founders through uh navigating their own transitions. It was all about, okay, how do I now integrate that? I love the recruiting portion. I love giving the right talent and those high-quality humans an opportunity to really show what they’ve got and to show to find them the right opportunities that are aligned, that can really see them, that can recognize them for the spark that they bring to a new opportunity. So then I recognized wow, there’s really a need for recruiting to be offered in combination with this advocacy piece, with the onboarding piece of really understanding now how to systematize onboarding, how important proper documentation is when you onboard new talent, how important it is to have the right um procedures in place, right? So that people come in and they don’t have to fend for themselves. And then also to be able to be a resource along the way once I’ve placed new talent of being able to coach them through their career transitions and through the different stages of their tenure in their in their role, but also to be able to offer that same coaching to their bosses. So I specialize, like I said, in luxury lifestyle support, uh, which means that I work with a lot of domestic staff. And oftentimes the people who need that domestic support aren’t natural people leaders. So they need the support, but they don’t know what they don’t know. And they don’t necessarily know how to lead, um, how to lead people, how to create the right structure to make it a fruitful and long-term opportunity for people to grow, for people to flourish. Nobody wants um revolving doors in their home. You know, most for the most part, I work with people who are really keen on confidentiality and making sure that the people who work for them are an extension of who they are and how they operate, especially when it comes to childcare and all of that. So understanding that and being able to guide these people who have the means, have the lifestyle that demand support, have the luxury of having quality humans come in and helping them, but to recognize that oftentimes the reason it doesn’t work out is because the right foundation isn’t in place and because people don’t know how to lead effectively.

Speaker 5: 01:00:42
And one of the core things, if I might add, is expectation management, right? One of the things I always say from both parties, expectation management. You know, talk about your expectations.

Speaker 3: 01:00:55
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5: 01:00:56
It’s not clear, I’m sure it’s not easy for you to hire the right candidates, right?

Speaker 3: 01:00:60
No, it’s so true. And it’s it’s all about, yeah, educating both the client and the candidate on what’s realistic. Um, I see it a lot now, and I don’t know that it’s really specific to one industry. I think people are not not fully connected to what it takes to be successful. They have these glitzy ideas, and TikTok said this, and you know, my friend said that this was possible. And it’s really important to have somebody who’s an expert and who has again who’s seen things from so many different vantage points, who understand, who understands a wide range of different industries to be able to guide you and know actually, this is what’s realistic. And actually, if we want this to work and if we want, if you want a long-term um success in this role, this is how it needs to be designed. Understanding the pitfalls and being able to, like, again, like this intuition, the collecting of this data for so long around what works and what doesn’t work, you can really uh project early on where things are going to get a little bit slippery, where things can be a Can get a little bit difficult and you can create the right foundation to set everyone up for success. So that’s what I specialize in.

Speaker 5: 01:02:22
And I can only imagine what a great matchmaker you are because you bring the perspective from the EA chief of staff role, you bring the perspective of the executive role because you’ve been working with so many different executives out there and leaders, and you learned to, you know, to observe their leadership style. And also being your own, I mean, uh in a kind of a role where you were the brand manager, the head of people. So you were a manager yourself, so you knew exactly what needs are out there. So I think it’s a perfect fit to bring into your consultancy. So would you say that’s that’s now me? It’s my calling. I’m I’m here and I’m gonna stay there.

Speaker 3: 01:03:02
Listen, I think that there’s always more for me. It’s so wild. I’m never, I’m never stagnant, but I’m also really mindful of wanting to bring a lot of substance to what I do. So it’s not like I’m opening a door and I’m like, okay, onto the next, onto the next. I really want to develop this further. There’s a course that I’m creating right now that speaks to exactly what we talked about here, which is this transition point in a career. Whether you’re going from becoming going from employee to entrepreneur, if you just want to elevate your game as an employee, what does that look like? And what do you have to be sort of aware of? Um, it’s a five-step program that really speaks to speaks to my experience and what has been incredibly beneficial. We spoke about a lot of that here. That’s something I really want to um develop and and further look into. I want to do more of these podcasts and interviews and have conversations with others in the fields. I love, love your podcasts. I started diving into it and doing my research. And there’s just so much that we learn from each other, right? Like community is everything and finding those communities. I have my own community actually, which I named Cocoon, spelled the German way, Kale Kalen, which is a network of like spiritually curious entrepreneurs uh who just want to know how to how to redefine success on their own terms. So, how do you redefine success in a way that is holistic, that really that’s really comprehensive, and then takes into account your spirituality, your career trajectory, how you show up as a mom, how you show up as a wife, and like just the all-encompassing um philosophy of success and how you can make redefine it for yourself. And what I love about it is we have these types of conversations in a smaller setting within the community where we all talk about the pitfalls and what we’re going through and what is happening behind closed doors when we’re no longer performing in our roles, when the mask comes off and we’re in our most vulnerable. We all need those connections. We need the people around us. Talk about, you know, having these advocates and these advisors. There’s nobody like others who’ve gone through what you’ve gone through before who are doing it right now to help you navigate these moments of just the unknown, right?

Speaker 5: 01:05:42
Yeah, it’s so true, absolutely. And um I hey, I’m I’m just very happy for you, you know, because you you you are you are so centered and you know, you know, where your passion is and your expertise is and where you’re good at. And I also love the way that you said this today. Like I’m I’m good at this, I’m good at that, managing people and you know, having this, um you know, just getting there, taking a deeper dive into every engagement and knowing the needs of the people. And I think we should allow ourselves to say this more often out there. You know, I’m good at this and I’m proud of this, and I I work for this, and now I take the credits, and maybe this leads me to my next position in life, position in business.

Speaker 3: 01:06:26
So uh I think I think that’s so true. I think that the like the biggest takeaway perhaps for somebody listening to this is really pay attention to where your cure curiosity ignites, right? Where you’re just like the things that like we talked about, the things that you could do for free if for the rest of your life, the things that keep you up at night, the things that you constantly find yourself researching, looking up on Google, the books you’re reading, what is that thing that is just your um guiding light that’s your biggest motivator? Don’t disregard it because with the skills that we acquire as assistants and with the things that we’re exposed to and how resilient we are, and how willing we are to be of service, we are so capable of becoming the most disruptive and innovative specialists in whatever field we deeply, deeply connect to. You know, and if your soul is in it, if you know that you’re connecting to this, that’s you living your purpose. Don’t question what it looks like or what format it comes in. I’m not even married to the idea that I’m an entrepreneur now for the rest of my life. There could be a job that shows up tomorrow where I’m like, this sounds amazing, let’s go for it. I’m never right, okay. But like I love so because people always we put entrepreneurship on such a pedestal. First of all, you guys, you want to be really ready for it. You know, like it’s you and you, and you have to be your own cheerleader and you have to figure this out. Luckily, you have people like myself, people like you who are always in your corner and willing to connect you and willing to support you. Look for those people, but also don’t put any format on a pedestal. It’s all about you, it’s not about what form it comes in. It’s about you utilizing your voice and your gifts in the most impactful way.

unknown: 01:08:30
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 01:08:31
So don’t worry what form that comes in, but follow your gut and give yourself a chance to explore all of it and see what you’re truly capable of.

Speaker 5: 01:08:42
Saturate advice, absolutely. And as I was telling you before, I have a lot of people in my network that are, you know, in a transition at the moment. You know, what’s the next path, what’s the next journey? So um really, really great advice you’re sharing with us. And hey, let us know when the course is out. Uh, we’re gonna, you know, definitely promote it for our um community. Let us know. Um, very happy to share, of course, again. Fantastic. It’s all about support system, right?

Speaker 2: 01:09:10
Can I ask you something, Deanna? Sure, of course. What’s next for you?

Speaker 3: 01:09:15
So you’re doing this amazing podcast. You’ve been nomading around for a long time now. Do you still love it?

Speaker 5: 01:09:22
Two years. Two years, actually.

Speaker 3: 01:09:23
Two years.

Speaker 5: 01:09:24
So we still love it. But it’s it’s getting to a phase where we feel like time to settle, maybe next year, you know, because okay. We’ve seen a lot. I mean, imagine two years on the road is it’s incredible. And then we are so grateful for the opportunity. And I’m also grateful for my clients, you know, to to allow me to operate this way from Italy, from Spain, from Dubai, wherever. Um it’s just incredible how much we grew also as partners and and um also the way I look at my business. But um, yeah, I think 2025 will be a year of transition, you know, finding out what’s the next place, where we’re gonna stay a little longer in order to you know find out if this is a roof. Exactly. If this is the place to go, we have a few spots on our mind, of course. Um yeah, so let’s see if if it’s gonna be a little bit more into settlement, but also business-wise, I I love to go more into a producer. Like I have been on these ages, like I have been on these stages giving key notes and doing workshops and whatever. So I learned that I find the most joy working in a closer settings, in very private settings, like a one-on-one coaching or coaching in the executive with the chief of staff or the assistant. So I love these smaller settings instead of going on a big stage. I’ve I’ve had this for eight years, eight years of the business now almost. Um, so I really find out that I really um want to focus more on the smaller projects, but also get into a producer role like you know, producing my own events, like I’m producing my own summit. I I just did this this year for the third time. And wonderful, 124 people from um Germany, Switzerland, and Austria joined us in person or virtual. Virtual. But of course, you know, when I’m getting into more of a producer mode, of course, maybe some live events are coming because the people are asking me about it. They say, When are you gonna do a live masterclass and when are you gonna do that? So, and you know, what I also love is like giving the platform to to other wonderful experts out there. So when I get into the producer role, I don’t need to be on the stage. And I always say it with um I kind of see it how actors sometimes you know go from that’s right, in front of the camera to behind of the camera, like all of a sudden I’m a director, right? And um, and this is how how I feel at the moment that um I don’t need to be in front of the camera anymore. Also, what one of the things is the podcast, I’m just the interviewer here, right? Um, so this is something that is definitely uh changing at the moment, yeah.

Speaker 3: 01:12:09
I love that. And isn’t that sort of it’s sort of what I’ve been doing too, right? Like we are the these assistants and we’re front facing, and then we take further and further further steps backwards to become the conductors of it all, right? Exactly. I love that for you. I know I love I love um your spirit, I love your spirit of connecting because there’s something so genuinely connected, and I think that’s probably why you’re so successful at what you do, is you’re always so willing to connect, you find such joy in connecting the right people with each other. We’re so similar that way, and it’s been such a gift meeting you.

Speaker 5: 01:12:47
I was trying to remember how we met, and I couldn’t actually I’ve never I think I reached out to you on LinkedIn or something. I I’ve seen something about something like that.

Speaker 3: 01:12:58
Was it like through bass or something?

Speaker 5: 01:12:59
Some panel that I was like, we were on the panel, we were on the panel, of course. Yes, exactly. I was blown away by your presence, so I reached out right away. Yeah, that’s the same thing.

Speaker 2: 01:13:10
Amazing how it happened.

Speaker 3: 01:13:12
For everyone listening, that’s how it works. Like, really pay attention if you speak from the heart, if you’re connected to who you are and you’re vocal about it, um, you the people will find you, the connections, and you will know when those like we stay in touch like periodically, right? But we’re always always a text message.

Speaker 2: 01:13:34
That’s right. Like it’s wonderful to have that connection.

Speaker 5: 01:13:37
And I love getting your messages like, where are you right now? You’re you know, the envelope trotter. So it’s always funny, and I specifically love when you write in German to me. And of course, I cannot let you go here, you know, finishing up the podcast without saying a few words to our German um listeners, uh German-speaking listeners and viewers. But before we do that, I just want to you know ask you a last private question. I mean you’re telling us a little bit about going out into the nature and doing mediation, meditation, sorry, and um you do your yoga, you have your family. What else else is out there that brings you joy? Is there any other hobby or anything where you feel like I instantly have a smile on my face when I do that?

Speaker 3: 01:14:22
For me, it’s really travel. Like I need, I need we just spend seven months living in Miami. Um, last year before that, we spent a good chunk of time in Mexico and Toulouse. Yeah, I remember. Um, we were in Costa Rica. So we had so many different um uh great adventures, like adventure with my family is really where I get inspiration because I need that lifeline of connection to other humans, right? And I need to know what how people are operating, what they’re struggling with, what’s going on out there. So for me, it’s so nerdy to say, but travel and the work that I do is really what keeps me alive. It’s just my it’s my lifeline. I love it so much and I love to, I love the um the pace of it. I love to be really busy. I love to coach and guide people through their career transitions, and I love to I get so much energy from people’s stories and being able to be of service and connecting the dots for them. So I’m a bit of a workaholic, but in the best sense of the term.

Speaker 5: 01:15:33
Because you are mindful, because you’re mindful to yourself, and that’s that makes a difference, probably, right?

Speaker 3: 01:15:38
Yes, and I’ve always there came a point where I just felt like, what is this concept of looking forward to the weekend, looking forward to vacation, or like that just gives it’s giving prison, you know what I mean? If you’re constantly looking for the next moment to have a rest or to have a break, to me, like the integration of both and being able to take my work wherever I go, to be able to be adventurous and then still have the connection of being of service to all these great humans that I work with, it’s it’s a dream.

Speaker 5: 01:16:10
Perfect, wonderful. Wishing you all the best, and I’m very happy for this conversation and lots of takeaways for our community. And the last question I would love to ask you, and maybe you want to answer that in German. Yeah, tell me. What do you love about Hamburg?

Speaker 3: 01:16:30
Hamburg, Hamburg, Hamburg, the Alster. I think the stuff is so unique, so green, obviously. Um, I think the level are so there’s a sincerity, the man merks that they are not unbelievable warm, which they in the friends that man, that man in Hamburg made, are really friends for sustainable friends, right? Sustainable friends, and honestly, there is such an efficiency in the way you navigate life in Hamburg, in Germany in general, but like in Hamburg, it’s such a big city. And I remember taking my husband there, and he was just like, the Germans just know how to do it. He’s like, There’s it all makes so much sense, everything’s so logical. Like from the way you enter the train, from the way you exit the restaurant, like everything is placed in such an efficient way to move around. I never recognize it until you take it for granted when you live in it.

Speaker 5: 01:17:43
I have to tell you, next time go to Switzerland, they’re even better.

Speaker 2: 01:17:47
Well, I’m about to go actually.

Speaker 3: 01:17:48
My friend’s getting married in August, so I will be in Europe this summer. So I’m really and she’s in Geneva. I can’t wait to be.

Speaker 5: 01:18:00
We just got back from Switzerland. Our last stop, the digital novel stop, was uh five weeks, four weeks in Switzerland. So I’ve been teaching in Zurich, I’ve been meeting clients around the Zurich area, but we’ve been traveling around. We were also in the French part, uh, French speaking part of uh Switzerland. And I can tell you they top it. They simply top it, and they know that’s incredible how good they are. And I I love to be in Switzerland all the time because you can even see a higher level of ship efficiency there. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 01:18:30
I’m so excited now. Bring your husband for sure to explore Switzerland. For sure. And the kids as well.

Speaker 3: 01:18:38
So I want to, Deanna, before we leave, I just really wanted to thank you, not just for bringing me on, which I’m so honored that you gave me a chance, but also thank you for everything that you do. I see what you’re doing out there, even though we’re not in concept communic contact, constant communication. I pay attention and I’m always in the sidelines, sort of paying attention to what you’re doing, what you’re posting about, what you’re doing here on the podcast. It is so needed. It’s so needed for people to hear what else is out there to feel it can be such a lonely path, as you know, to be an assistant and to not know where to turn to, how to how to be your own cheerleader, how to encourage yourself to go for more. We are superhumans, you guys. And all of us have our own unique superpower. Fact. Like nobody can tell me otherwise. And you’re none of us are excluded from that. So it’s just a matter of getting really, really um curious, but also get a lot of joy from um discovering what that is. Don’t get stuck in this just blind servitude and like it’s all for other people, and I’m such an empath. That’s beautiful, that’s a beautiful trait, but you’re not here by accident. And you’re not here to just be echoing the voices of others. You all have something really important to share in this world that is unique to you, that only you can bring to the table the way you do. And I encourage all of you to utilize this platform, what Diana is building here, these types of conversations to remind you it takes all of us to change this world. You know, and we’re all here to support you. And I just command you for everything that you’re doing because it’s so needed.

Speaker 5: 01:20:24
Oh, this is so beautiful. Thank you so much to hear this from you. It really means a lot. And I appreciate the very honest conversation we had. Thank you so much for giving away so much great advice.

Speaker 3: 01:20:34
Um wait to bring this to come in a guys, I’m currently remembering my website as I told you, so I’m going to do my best to have it up by the time this comes out. But regardless, it’s donataboston.com. It’s really firstandlastname.com where you’ll find everything that I talked about, including how you can sign up if you’re looking for a new job, how you can connect in other ways if you want to be coached through career transitions, and also how to access my online community for entrepreneurs, but also any leaders. We’re all leaders at the end of the day. If you need community, if you’re looking for support, just reach out. And if um for whatever reason you can’t get in touch, you can mute me on Donata at donataboston.com as well.

Speaker 5: 01:21:22
And you are on LinkedIn as well. So can I use Donata on LinkedIn? I’m sure there’s no excuses. Lots of new connections from especially the German speaking community, I’m sure. Absolutely. And I’m sure the Hamburg community is gonna hold up a flag as well for you.

Speaker 3: 01:21:40
I love it. I hope nobody in Munich heard me talk about it.

Speaker 5: 01:21:43
No, no, no, no. Don’t worry. Okay, don’t worry. I don’t want to get in trouble with the you know, it’s it’s not a myth. I mean, we all know that the north and the south are totally, totally different personalities, so that’s totally fine. And I grew up in Frankfurt the middle, so I’m I’m out of staying out of it. A little bit of all of it. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. Um, my dear friends, thank you so much. Take good care. Thank you, Alice. Dankeschön. Uh lots of greetings to LA and um, yeah, talk soon. Okay.

Speaker 2: 01:22:12
We’ll see you soon.

Speaker 5: 01:22:15
I know you had a great time listening to this conversation with Donata. I know it was a long, long talk, but there was so much great information coming from her. And this is always the case when I talk to her. She gives such great advice. And I remember when we had around two years ago the live event I organized, the audience was captured by her wisdom and how she is really helping us to understand the situation we’re in right now and that we should not be afraid of going to the next path of our journey. So thank you so much, Donata, for being here, and thank you so much, dear community, for listening and for watching, and cannot wait to get your feedback.

Speaker 1: 01:22:54
You’re listening to the Leader Assistant Podcast.

Deborrah Mac Kenzie-Meneades has over 30 years of experience in executive support.

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Deborrah shares her assistant career story, including a bit from her experience leading EA teams, and talks about superpowers assistants have.

CONNECT WITH DEBORRAH

• • Deborrah on LinkedIn

ABOUT DEBORRAH

Deborrah Mac Kenzie works as the Executive Assistant at Energetiq Technology, Inc. she is not just there to keep the wheels turning. She is here to ensure our award-winning leadership team has the freedom to focus on innovation and growth. With over 30 years of experience in executive support, she brings a steady commitment to our fast-growing company’s vision and a passion for facilitating our leaders’ success!

Outside the office, you’ll often find Deborrah exploring mountain bike trails in New England, summit bike rides in VT, indulging in culinary adventures, and giving animals a voice. Her personality is contagious as she enjoys being a land soul and living off the land while making face and body oils.

–––

THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

Enroll in the on-demand, AI-powered professional development resource for Leader Assistants who want to level up. Learn more -> The Leader Assistant Academy.

THE LEADER ASSISTANT BOOK

Download the first 3 chapters of The Leader Assistant: Four Pillars of Game-Changing Assistant for FREE here or buy it on Amazon and listen to the audiobook on Audible. Also, check out the companion study guide, The Leader Assistant Workbook, to dig deeper.

JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

SUBSCRIBE

Subscribe to The Leader Assistant Podcast so you don’t miss new episodes!

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Join my email list here if you want to get an email when a new episode goes live.

LEAVE A REVIEW

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please take 2 minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts here. Each review helps me stay motivated to keep the show going!

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy: 00:23
Hey friends, welcome to the Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host, Jeremy Burroughs, and I’m excited to welcome you to episode 366. You can check out the show notes for this episode at LeaderAssistant.com/366. So today we’re going to be talking about EA superpowers, and my special guest is Deborrah McKenzie. Deborrah is in Boston, is that right?

Deborrah: 00:54
Yes, just about 30 miles a little over, north of Boston. Yes.

Jeremy: 00:59
Awesome, awesome. Well, welcome to the show. Um Deborrah is currently an executive business partner and has a uh great career in executive support. So we’re excited to have you on the show and chat a little bit about your story and your career. Uh, and then of course, uh, all about uh EA superpowers. So before we jump into your career, tell us uh what’s one thing you like to do when you’re not working?

Deborrah: 01:27
Uh so my me time is riding my mountain bike or my summit bike, and I don’t have to worry about cooking, cleaning, and what have you. It’s all about me.

Jeremy: 01:40
Nice. What’s the for for a uh non-bike expert? What’s the difference between a mountain bike and a summit bike?

Deborrah: 01:49
Okay, so the summit bike you can pick up with two pinky fingers. It’s super light, and it only has about three gears. Some people have two gears, and you’re going straight up the summit.

Jeremy: 02:02
Gotcha.

Deborrah: 02:03
And yeah, I can do a lot of that in Vermont. I was gonna try to ride in Mount Washington, but I have not done it yet. So I will stay in Vermont for now.

Jeremy: 02:16
Awesome, love it. Well, that’s that’s great. Uh, so tell us a little bit about your career. How did you end up becoming an EA?

Deborrah: 02:27
Uh so where do I start? My undergrad is in fashion design, and that’s what I started to do first and really loved it, but it was just myself, the sewing machine, and my stereo. And I got a little bored of that. Probably after a year, I remembered an aren’t always talking about being a secretary, and it fascinated me what she got to do and what have you. And my my mother as well got to do a little bit of that too. So my aunt went to Birdt School, and I chose also to go to Birdett School, and it’s located in the Boston area. I can’t remember where hers was, I think it was out in the suburbs. But um, we were rivals with um Katie Gibbs, and it just was a school for 10 months, I think it was, and we would go to school from like eight to five every day. And yeah, I liked it and I’m still in it. And I I it’s kind of funny as an EA, and I think we can all agree to this. I know we have many titles, but what other position in the world or business gets to have as much fun as we do? Because we can create it in any direction and again using your superpowers to do it. And to me, I I think that’s awesome.

Jeremy: 04:07
Love it. I love it. So what’s your okay, so that’s maybe one of the parts of the job that you love. What’s one of the most frustrating parts uh about being an assistant uh over your career?

Deborrah: 04:20
I think I guess being overlooked. Um because I I did strive to be the executive business partner. I did not make it. I know you introduced me that way, so I’m still striving. I’m not gonna give up. Um and uh yeah, it’s hard. I think it’s a hard battle for any executive assistant or any admin position to grow. And that is uh has been a struggle. And hopefully it will end.

Jeremy: 04:58
Yeah, so when you say strive for it, so is that something that you’re in the process of trying to get your title get a title change essentially?

Deborrah: 05:07
Yes, yes. And it’s not so much about the title, it really isn’t. It’s it’s a goal. It’s a goal that’s been set, and I just have to conquer it.

Jeremy: 05:19
Yeah.

Deborrah: 05:19
And I feel like I’m there. I just still you know, I’ll still go for it.

Jeremy: 05:26
Yeah, totally. So tell us about where you’re at currently then.

Deborrah: 05:32
Okay, so currently I am using many superpowers, and you’re probably asking, what are superpowers? So they can be um work great under pressure, highly confidential, constantly challenging myself. So definitely challenge yourself, strong follow-up skills and follow-through skills, employee gratitude. So where I work, we use this program called Wish List, and we get to say thank you to other employees, even the senior leadership team. It’s actually really nice. It even puts birthdays on there and things like that. And learning to keep positive. I know it’s a hard thing to do, but keep in that moment and being known that you’re trustworthy, because this allows you to be that sounding board and to, and it, in my opinion, it’s always helped me to be part of the, if you want to call the CEO round table. So where the SLT sit, you yourself, and you get to speak. And you’re present also at annual retreats that you put together. Ours are usually in the New England area. It’s not like we have to fly to them. So that’s nice. Not that I haven’t done trips like that, um, but it just makes it a little nicer that it’s locally. And I guess typical administrative work is well. And I think that’s about it for my superpowers. Well, there’s more, but I don’t want to talk about all of them.

Jeremy: 07:23
Yeah, so what uh when did your mindset shift um throughout your career as an assistant from hey, you know, I’m just a I’m just a task doer, or I’m just a you know order taker, to I’m actually I’ve got these superpowers, I’m actually a leader, I’ve actually got influence, and this is more of a uh strategic partner career than just doing what people ask me to do.

Deborrah: 07:53
Yes. So I started off as a marketing secretary, and from there I went into administrative assistant, and from there I was the executive assistant to a CEO. And then at that point, I could see where I was needed and would step in. So at that point, also we worked on in a subsidiary company, and when my CEO went to the larger company, I didn’t know where I was gonna stand. And he said to me, I hope you’re coming. So, of course. And then he was he headed up the strategy department in this company, and I guess I created great branding because when the new CEO came on board, he said, Who’s the best EA? And I was voted, and I was super excited, and that was really the seat that I knew I had to learn and grow in. And that was a good I think I want to say 30 years ago.

Jeremy: 09:05
Right.

Deborrah: 09:06
So I’ve been supporting CEOs, CFOs, um, legal counsels ever since then. Um, but primarily CEOs. I like the business part. The CFO side, I’m okay with numbers, I but I’m more into the business. And I’ve always heard, and I’m not sure if it’s true, you’re either good at one or the other. So you’re either a business person or a number person, and I guess I’m business.

Jeremy: 09:36
Nice, nice. Yeah, I’m definitely not a numbers person. I like to I like it when the numbers, I like it when our goals are quantifiable and I can and trackable, but I don’t like when I have to be the one to to do the math and figure out the numbers.

Deborrah: 09:52
Yeah.

Jeremy: 09:55
Awesome. So really it sounds like the the big shift for you was when that EA to CEO position opportunity came, and then the CEO and the leadership team was very like supportive and um you know affirmed your your value.

Deborrah: 10:17
Yes. And then by like 2006 or seven, I worked at a company where they allowed me to get my master’s degree and they paid for it. So at that point, I learned a lot, like a lot of the financial end as well as the business end, how outside of the company, you know, affects the company and the overall and what have you. And again, I leaned towards the business and as well as the marketing side. So I love being creative. As EAs, I know we have to be creative as well and problem solving and what have you. So I think that helped a lot as well. I’m not saying everybody has to get a master’s degree, but I I you know was appreciative that the company said, Hey, would you like to do this? And I was on board. Yeah. It’s it’s helped me tremendously.

Jeremy: 11:17
How so you did that while you were working?

Deborrah: 11:19
Yes.

Jeremy: 11:20
So how long did it take?

Deborrah: 11:21
And it was kind of cool while I was working on we did like four-day work weeks, 10-hour shifts. And my classes, I would do all my homework on Friday, and my classes were on the weekend, sometimes in the evening, but primarily on the weekend.

Jeremy: 11:35
Wow.

unknown: 11:36
Yeah.

Jeremy: 11:37
So do you how about how long did that take? Do you think three years? Three years? Wow.

Deborrah: 11:42
Yeah, it was tough.

Jeremy: 11:43
I was gonna say that sounds like a busy three years.

Deborrah: 11:45
Yeah, no, it was tough. I think my dog even hated me.

Jeremy: 11:51
Well, that’s awesome. So, what would you say is something that you learned on the job that you didn’t that you just there’s no way somebody could learn in the formal education MBA process?

Deborrah: 12:08
Well, I that’s kind of funny. There’s I guess there’s a lot of things. One would be personalities, there’s always different personalities. Um I know that there’s this book. Um I forget. It’s that that book in graduate school helped me out because of personalities. So it’s like four different pillars, and you put those people in those pillars, then you know how to speak to them. Because sometimes when you say something communication-wise, even written, you the verbal part might get lost, the written part gets lost, and or it’s just a big no, we’ve done that, blah, blah, blah. So that book helped me to say, well, let’s look at it this way, or well, how did you see it? Like, what went wrong? Like it helped me to ask the right questions than just say, oh, okay, it’s been done, forget it. So I think that was a huge step that I and I still use it today. Actually, I just finished a six-month program with um a company for administrative people, and I was I learned my new superpower that I’m a very eloquent writer. Um, I didn’t realize that, but I actually hear it when I speak as well now. And I’m glad she, you know, let me know.

Jeremy: 13:36
That’s awesome.

unknown: 13:37
Yeah.

Jeremy: 13:38
So let’s talk a little bit about your network or your working relationship with other assistants. Did you work on a team of assistants uh throughout your career? Have you been the only assistants? Um, and then if you have been the only assistant, how did how did you like maybe try to network with other assistants at other companies? Tell tell us a little bit about that.

Deborrah: 14:02
Okay. So I’ve it’s been a little bit everything. I’ve been part of a team. I I’ve been the senior EA to the administrative team three times. And what I usually do is I go by their strengths. Whatever they’re strong in, that is that workload’s going in that direction. Um, mine always seems to end with points. So um I excel in SharePoint, I excel in PowerPoint. So if there’s a any other program out there that ends at a point, let me know. Um but so I’ve always been asked by like HR, can you do this for me? Because I’m highly confidential, I’m happy to uh orchestrate anything for them. So I always seem to have a dotted line in that direction. And and to actually train other EAs. This is how PowerPoint works, let’s make it fun, bring in pitches, and let’s like see how they change and things like that. So um, in and even with um what is it? Um like calendar setting, people don’t realize that it has like a calendar so that you can put the time in it so it’s on the other side of the world. I’ve seen EA sit there and count the hours and then put the time in, and I’m like, what are you doing? Like it already does that, and like being able to help them with things like that, and then saying, hey, let’s put together a monthly meeting so that we can drive and train one another and see what one another knows that the other doesn’t know has always helped. And yeah, how did they look there as a team?

Jeremy: 15:58
So, how did you end up leading those in those points in your career where you were kind of overseeing the EA teams? Was it something that you you know were looking for? Like, hey, uh I want to do this, or did they just throw, hey, sorry, uh Deborah, you’re in charge of these assistants now.

Deborrah: 16:18
Yeah. So no, I wasn’t looking for it, and it was tossed my way, and uh I it was just kind of funny. I I just remember going home saying, How do I do this? and looking at myself saying, Well, these are my strengths, what are they? So I would meet with them individually to find out what their strengths are and then bring them together as a group and say, you know, how do we use one another’s strengths? Do we want to be in a bullpen and people say, hey, I need help with Excel, I’ll give it to you. Because if you can’t support your CFO, somebody else in that group has to be able to support them if you don’t have that skill set. But we’re gonna teach you how to and then just keep building it from there. Um and I think the last almost 10 years, maybe I’ve been the solo EA. There hasn’t been any other EAs. I mean, I think companies have really buckled down on, you know, keeping a lean kind of employee organization. I don’t think any company wants to lead people off or what have you, so keeping it lean um has helped, you know, yeah get out of that problem. And it and it’s I’m actually fine with it because now I get to team up with either senior leadership, management, directors, get their spin on different things that maybe I don’t see it. And I believe that’s helped me as well. Yeah. Being flexible.

Jeremy: 18:05
Yeah, I could see how you know if you’re leading a team or you’re part of a big EA team, you’re spending a lot of time with them, it takes takes away some of that opportunity, or it could take away some of that opportunity to learn from those executives and um, you know, pull you away from some of those maybe leadership team meetings and whatnot.

Deborrah: 18:23
Yes. No, I agree. Yes.

Jeremy: 18:26
Well, Deborah, what what’s something is as we wrap up, thanks again for being on the show. What what’s something that you wanted to share with or maybe some final thoughts um with assistants all over the world who are listening right now? Um and no pressure though, because they’re just doing their dishes and they’re just driving to work. There’s it’s not like they’re uh they’re you know, it’s not a super pressure moment, but there are uh hopefully thousands of people listening right now, and uh there are assistants in different parts of the world, uh different sizes of organizations, different sizes of teams, different temperaments of executives, um, and everything in between. So what’s uh what’s something you want to share now that you’ve got the microphone?

Deborrah: 19:14
Um I think what comes to mind when we talk about superpowers, find out what your superpowers are and really get good at them. And how do you find out what they are? You will definitely hear about them during your annual review. What you’re not good at and what you’re good at. And the ones you’re good at, just keep getting better at them. Then next year, add more. It could even just be one, but know that you’re getting better at it and really get better at it. It’s it’s helped my career. Um, I’ve often been asked by CEOs why do you do what you do? Um, because I’m good at it. It’s like going to work and having fun, not really. I mean, it’s You gotta balance a lot of stuff, but I’m having fun what I do and and growing. It’s just if you’re not growing, maybe you’re gonna find the right EA position and what have you, but it’s it truly is. It’s been a really nice career for myself. Um and really find her superpowers and make them as strong as possible. It truly has helped me.

Jeremy: 20:35
Love it. Well, thank you, Deborah, for sharing. And uh for those that want to connect with Deborah, I’ve got the show notes at leaderassistant.com slash three six six and we’ll link to your LinkedIn uh page so people can connect and say hi. Um and uh yeah, just uh really appreciate you taking time out of your day and thank you for your uh support work over the years and in the career, the administrative professional career. Um, and hopefully we’ll get to uh connect in Boston sometime.

Deborrah: 21:13
Yes, I would love that. And I think we can all say thank you for your great book as well. I um if you look as I show you here, I have many tabs. So they’ve helped me. I like keep it simple when you do a task, the action and what have you. So that’s helped me. It’s those simple things, you know, like sometimes we overthink.

unknown: 21:37
Yeah.

Jeremy: 21:38
Well, that’s great. Thanks for the the kind words and for reading the book and um marking it up and putting all the post-it notes in the in the in the tab. So uh, but yeah, thanks again. Best of luck to you, and thank you everyone for listening. Again, leaderassistant.com slash three six six to check out the show notes, and we’ll talk to you next time.

Deborrah: 21:58
Great. Thank you.

Diana Brandl is a longtime C-Suite assistant, and host of the Executive Office Insights podcast.

In this spotlight episode, Diana speaks with Lauren Bradley about how EAs can thrive.

CONNECT WITH LAUREN

• Lauren on LinkedIn
• The Officials

ABOUT LAUREN

Lauren Bradley is passionate about providing affordable and accessible training to the administrative professional industry.

Her career as an award-winning assistant and business owner spans nearly twenty years, where she has worn many hats including office manager, executive assistant, virtual assistant and private PA to HNWIs. A truly international powerhouse, Lauren is a corporate trainer, mentor and speaker. She is originally from Pittsburgh, PA but now lives in London with her family where you can find her constantly neglecting her cup of tea.

ABOUT EXECUTIVE OFFICE INSIGHTS with DIANA BRANDL

Executive Office Insights is a podcast for executive support professionals hosted by Diana Brandl – an accomplished trainer, consultant, coach, and former C-suite senior executive assistant with nearly two decades of experience at renowned international companies, this podcast dives deep into the evolving world of executive excellence.

Diana explores the critical themes shaping the modern workplace, including leadership dynamics, digital transformation, AI, and the future of work. Featuring insightful conversations with a diverse range of German and English-speaking experts, each episode equips listeners with actionable insights and strategies to thrive in the ever-changing executive office landscape.

–––

THE LEADER ASSISTANT ACADEMY

Enroll in the on-demand, AI-powered professional development resource for Leader Assistants who want to level up. Learn more -> The Leader Assistant Academy.

THE LEADER ASSISTANT BOOK

Download the first 3 chapters of The Leader Assistant: Four Pillars of Game-Changing Assistant for FREE here or buy it on Amazon and listen to the audiobook on Audible. Also, check out the companion study guide, The Leader Assistant Workbook, to dig deeper.

JOIN THE FREE COMMUNITY

Join the Leader Assistant Global Community for bonus content, job opportunities, and to network with other assistants who are committed to becoming leaders!

THE LEADER ASSISTANT PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP

To learn more about how you can join growth-minded Leader Assistants, check out our Leader Assistant Premium Membership for ongoing training, coaching, and community.

LEADER ASSISTANT LIVE EVENTS

Check out our constantly updated schedule of events for admins and assistants at LeaderAssistantLive.com.

SUBSCRIBE

Subscribe to The Leader Assistant Podcast so you don’t miss new episodes!

You can find the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pandora, and Stitcher.

Join my email list here if you want to get an email when a new episode goes live.

LEAVE A REVIEW

If you’re enjoying the podcast, please take 2 minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts here. Each review helps me stay motivated to keep the show going!

–––

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 5: 00:46
Today I’m excited to spotlight my friend Diana Brandl’s show called Executive Office Insights. Diana has had some amazing interviews over the years on her show, which I will link to in the show notes, so be sure to check that out. In the meantime, enjoy this featured episode from Diana’s show.

Speaker 1: 01:12
The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

Speaker 5: 01:24
Check out the show notes for this episode at leaderassistant.com/365.

Speaker 3: 01:39
Absolutely. What’s the framework there for assistance? How do you have this type of meeting? And then it would build off of that. It would make me bounce ideas. And every time I heard a tip that I thought was just incredible, I just wanted to share it.

Speaker 2: 01:60
Welcome to Executive Office Insights with your host, Diana Brandl, consultant and coach for executive support. I travel around the globe to bring you the most exciting voices in the industry in front of my microphone. Get inspired by insider knowledge, real success stories, and new perspectives on leadership and executive support. It was long overdue to have her on the show. We recently worked together for the uh working at Office Magazine in Germany for an article. She was one of the experts there. I interviewed. Um, and the topic was ADHD, and Lauren talks about this very openly. So I wanted to give more room and have her here on the podcast. But of course, there’s so much more to cover because she’s a huge tech fan, and I know you’re gonna love this episode. So don’t forget to connect with her. Enjoy. Here we are again with another episode of Executive Office Insides, and I’m heading over to the UK and I say hi to Lauren. Lauren, where are you based?

Speaker 3: 03:08
Let us know. Um, so I am in London in the UK, and it is very hot here today, but I’m happy to be talking with you.

Speaker 2: 03:16
I know Lauren and I would just had a chat about the temperatures, and when she said 31 in the UK, I was looking like, what? Yeah, because I’m in Italy, it’s 35 Celsius, and you don’t expect that from the UK, but you know, summer arrived up there as well, which is wonderful for you and the family and the kids, because of course we love good weather, but it usually comes with a big boom, right?

Speaker 3: 03:40
Yes, exactly. It’s booming here. It is gonna be like this for the next week and a half. So we are we’re pulling out the pool and the sprinkler, and we’re just gonna do everything we can to stay cool because it is unbearable. I know.

Speaker 2: 03:55
Pool sounds good, by the way. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, Lauren? First of all, good to have you on the show, and I’m very excited to introduce you, especially to the German-speaking community. So we all want to hear who’s Lauren.

Speaker 3: 04:11
Thank you for having me. You know, I adore you, and I’m so glad that we’re getting to do this. So, my name is Lauren Bradley. I’m the founder of The Officials, which is an online training and community platform for administrative professionals. Um, it is all community-based, so we are very much into crowdsourcing that we all are greater than our part. The sum is greater than the parts, right? And everyone in our community has unique experience. Um, and we also do, I do corporate training and have trained at some amazing, amazing companies and mentorship. So we really picking up on mentorship at the moment. And that’s kind of how everything really started was um with mentorship. So that’s a little bit about me and what we do here at the officials.

Speaker 2: 04:58
And you know, you speak at conferences. This is where, you know, you and I have been on the same stages, like the PA show, for example, in London. Exactly. Um, so that’s that’s always good to see you there. And so watch out, everyone on the agenda. Lauren might be on, especially when it’s in the UK area. And the PA show is always a very uh event that I always enjoyed going. And um, you you meet everyone there. It’s it’s such a great time. Uh, the exhibit exhibition part, the training part, and the networking part. So it’s it’s really a fun event.

Speaker 3: 05:29
It’s fabulous. I we always say it’s like a reunion. Like we don’t see each other all year, but at the PA show, we have a chance to all see each other because we’re all all of us that are advocates and trainers, we’re busy, right? And so to actually be able to spend two days in the same room together. And I always try and do as many speaking sessions as possible because I just want to spread all you know great tips, things that’ll make people’s lives easier every day and try and do it in a fun and not boring way. Absolutely. But it’s it’s nice to when you come down from that that you walk back and you get to see all your friends and hang out.

Speaker 2: 06:09
And that is really, really true. I always enjoyed myself. And by the way, you and I have a date in November with a bunch of other wonderful ladies. So I’m very excited about that. So uh hopefully we’re gonna fast forward to November so we get to see each other. So um, before the officials, before becoming a founder, of course, there was so much more in your career. Was there anything specific you want to pick out where you feel like this made me really proud?

Speaker 3: 06:37
So I have been so at the officials, we are very much for admins by admins or for assistants by assistants. And I myself have been an administrative professional in some way, shape, or form for over 20 years. I started in my father’s home office. Uh, he had a commercial cleaning company. So when uh businesses were closing at the end of the night, my father was starting his business. There were many summers where I also was helping him with the hard work, but it started in the basement, um, helping him with receipts and learning how like literally learning how to use the original computers and making invoices. Uh in at university, I was an assistant as well. It was my first, like, I guess, professional job. But I uh I didn’t think it was gonna be a career until I moved to the UK. I um I have a master’s degree in uh interactive media, which is a bit of instructional design, so online courses, oddly in a roundabout way. I’ve come back to that. Totally. Yeah, right. Um, and web design and graphic design. So really ticked all the boxes where I’m at now. But exactly, yeah. I was raised by an ADHD doer father and a what I call my martyr mother. She wouldn’t like these hanging up, but someone that, you know, sacrifices for everyone else. And I think the Venn diagram of those two people is someone who’s drawn to service, ADHD, and um loves organization, loves things tidy. And so I feel like I didn’t have a choice, didn’t matter what I graduated with. This is what I was going to be. And when I came here uh to the UK, my CB resume didn’t really translate well. And so I started temping. I think I landed on the 8th and I was temping four days later, uh, which is amazing. And I loved temping. It taught me so much. I got to learn the city on my own. It was really fun. I got to learn really fast what industries I liked and didn’t like. And my career comes. Which one didn’t you like? I’m not a fan of hedge funds, finance. I like tech startups. And if you know anything about me and have been to any of my trainings, I really incorporate an element of tech uh into anything that I do. I’m really obsessed with how tech can help us. And so I really like that tech startup environment where everyone’s again, I like that sense of community, I think, where everyone’s working towards a common goal where you have high trust and autonomy. And if you do it right, you really foster an environment where the people that can’t handle that high trust are really pointed out quite quickly because everyone else is working their their bums off. And so someone that can’t handle that high trust is gonna their someone the team’s not gonna want to work with that person. And so it actually kind of cleanses itself when it’s done really well. And I love that, love that environment. Um, I think I also loved education, higher ed. Really loved it’s a I think higher ed’s a little too slow. That’s why I like speaking and training at companies and online learning because you can react much more quickly. We’re an accredited, big accredited university. It takes it’s slow, it’s real slow. Yeah, right. But I love this that everyone’s there for again, everyone’s there for the same reason. We all want to learn. You have so much talent around you and potential, and I love it. So um my career kind of blossomed from there. And um I’ve been the EA to um one of the youngest female CEOs here in the UK of a hundred million pound plus company. I have been a private PA to high net worth individuals. I’ve been an office manager at a tech startup that was bought by Warner Brothers. I have been all the things. So I’m really proud of how organically the officials came out of that, which was really that I needed help and that I wanted to connect with other people. And it’s grown into this amazing thing of a community of people that are there to help each other and uh especially in our community, admit when we don’t know something and all lend our experience. Wonderful.

Speaker 2: 12:27
How did you come up with the idea? How did you find the name for the officials and what’s the mission behind them? The community, of course, but anything else? Because we see so much training out there. So what’s different uh with you and the community you created?

Speaker 3: 12:42
That’s a very good question. So uh I actually started the officials as just as a community. It was just meant to be a safe space where we could ask questions of each other, bring a bunch of administrative professionals together from all walks of life. Uh, I had basically got a new job in New York City. I’m not from New York City, I’m from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And um, I started my really started my professional career here and as an admin, and then moved to New York. And so my little black book was useless. My contacts were pretty useless. And I had this amazing new job. And I was standing on Madison Avenue looking up at the skyscrapers, and it like it hit me. These buildings are filled with my people, and I need to talk to them. Right. And so I went looking first. I didn’t think I was going to start anything. I thought, okay, let me see what’s out there. And I really do like an element of localization. There’s certain things you need locally, you need to connect with other local administrative professionals. And so I was looking in New York, and at the time, this is back in like 2015, there was not anything that met online. Uh, and I had a baby that I had to get back to as soon as the quitting time bell rang, basically. As soon as it was time to go, I was racing for the train, racing to get her from daycare. And so I needed, and she didn’t sleep. So I needed to be able to learn and connect when it was convenient for me. Yeah. And so I also had no training budget. None. Uh, we had we were a startup. So when we bought by Warner Brothers, I was just leaving. I would have had training budget then, but right before that, all the money was going into building this thing. And um and so I built what I couldn’t find. I was looking for a sort of a horseshoe-shaped table where it was an open conversation, it wasn’t a closed community where I could talk to people online and um and it was affordable. And so it actually started as a completely free thing. And um, but it was all around crowdsourcing. I literally am the original official because I needed help, but I knew I had unique experience. We all do, right? So I offered as much as I got out of it, but I’m a collector and uh it’s that my crazy brain, the way it works. So I was riveted. It was my hyperfixation. It has been my hyperfixation for years now. And I would hear somebody’s story or I would ask questions, how does your company work? What’s the framework there for assistance? How do you have this type of meeting? And and then I would build off of that. It would make me bounce ideas. And every time I heard a tip that I thought was just incredible, I just wanted to share it.

Speaker 4: 15:37
Right.

Speaker 3: 15:37
Uh the name came because uh there was a there was something in New York that met quarterly in person, and it was called like Office Heroes or something. Oh, yeah, I remember the yeah, yeah, or was it the Office Ninjas even or something? Well, Office Ninjas existed. That was out of San Francisco. So I actually the Office Ninjas Award one year because I started the officials. I and it was it changed everything when I won that award. But and I loved them. Um, and was an ambassador for them, held some events for them. But uh there was this like this little group. And in fact, the first and only meeting I ever went to, um, turns out Bonnie Low Craven was there. I didn’t know who she was at the time. And um she was giving, she decided to give away one of her books as a giveaway. Right. And I was like, I don’t everyone was like, oh, I was like, I don’t know who this person is. That’s how new I was. That’s how little I it was like eight years into my career before I even thought I had looked here and there for training, but it was all very corporate. It was all right how to write a business letter, how to speak professionally. And I’m like, I know how to do that stuff. I want to know how to create culture. I want to know how I should literally set up my day and how I should use the technology that’s in front of me and where the venues that I need to go to. I wanted shortcuts. I was I wanted boom, boom, boom. Um, and I just could not find it. And when I did find something, maybe that that I thought I liked, not that there wasn’t stuff out there, but remember, I had no training budget. Right. And so I just thought when it actually became a business, I’m going to make it the thing I was looking for. And so I named it this office admin crowd because I I literally couldn’t think of anything. And then my um ex-partner is a writer. I said, We have to change his name. This name is terrible. I hate it, it doesn’t feel like anything. And he’s British, they’re great with like really punny headlines. And he said, What about the officials? You’re you work in the office, right? Authority, and I was like, and I’m a great name. Isn’t it good? And I always said we I always loved it. I always loved it. Oh, thank you so much. I I I will tell him that I got a conversation. Please, please. I always said we were an army of admins behind each one of us that someone could come in there and said to their boss, Yeah, I can host that event, or I can I know how to um whip together board meeting minutes and all of that. And then they turn to us and go, guys, you know, team officials, how do I do this? And and somebody raised their hand and says, I’ve got something for you. That’s how I imagined it. You’d see one person and just like the sea of people behind them. And so it just it hit all the it hit everything I was looking for in such an unexpected way. And it was why Marta, also my my right hand, who I don’t know what I would do without, her she came from a military background and she heard the officials as well and was like, this is she knew she she grasped it right away. And so I’m very, very lucky and I’m very thankful for him for uh lending words mithery.

unknown: 18:54
Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:55
So uh give us some examples of trainings you’re offering. I know you’re totally into tech, you know, that’s your thing. Um, but is it like a balance between some tech training and some soft skill training just to get a little taste of people are keen to learn more about the community and want to become a member? So give us a little taste.

Speaker 3: 19:13
Yes. Okay, so that’s a really great question again. Such really good at this, like you’ve done this before. Um five years, five years is this one running here.

Speaker 2: 19:23
Even though you’ve started a lot as this goal, a lot of work now.

Speaker 3: 19:28
I trained, I trained hard. Exactly, exactly. So um okay, so it depends on where we have been in this in this journey. I would say at the moment, some of the most popular questions that come up, to be honest. Let me actually let me back up. Let me back up. The questions are always the same. In some way, shape, or form, the questions are the same. The context around them changes. So it’s always uh the technology is always something I’ve been helping people with. Right. It was a community, but now very obviously very focused on AI. Right. The questions are very focused on AI. I find that I’m taking them away, I show them AI, but I take them back to automation or literally just diving a little bit deeper into the actual technology they already have.

Speaker 2: 20:15
Good.

Speaker 3: 20:16
Um, and realizing it has a bunch of features that we’ve been too busy to find. So technology is definitely a big one there. And finding sort of out-of-the-box stuff. I train a lot on what I call alternative technology, so sort of anti-Microsoft. Yeah, I know you’re a big Google fan. I’m just tweeted out. Yes, I like Google, I love Notion, Asana, all of that stuff. I’m I absolutely love, I love um Haifa over at ShareCal. I love those types of um technology that helps us. I like having a tech stack where in a Microsoft environment you’re you’re kind of compressed to this mic to this environment. I kind of feel like Microsoft needs to like start totally fresh. And um because they they’re kind even their productivity tools do you use to-do, do you use lists, do you use planner, do you use project? So and then there’s uh even have let’s not even start with loop, right? So loop is supposed to be Notion and it which I was so excited for, but it the number one thing that Notion does the best, which is um you can have custom views. So if you have say you have a it’s like a spreadsheet, right? You have you can have your to-do list in there like a spreadsheet. And in an Excel spreadsheet, you could sort it. You could have a column that says status, to-do, doing, or done. And you could say, only show me what’s to do. You can do that in a loop, but uh it it allows you to see that same to-do list on different pages, but as soon as you filter it, it’s that same filter on every page. You can’t say, Here I want to see what’s due just today, and here I want to see what’s due the next week. You can’t do that. Notion allows you to do that. I’ve been talking to people about Microsoft lists lately, and that you can do that with. None of the other tools in Microsoft can do that, and no one’s using it. So, anyway, I’m gonna back up from that, but uh I’m glad I got to share a tip today.

Speaker 2: 22:14
Absolutely. And we we would love to hear more because I’m going to ask you about what are the what’s the next phase of technology coming. I mean, are we expecting maybe kind of a co-pilot in the Google Suite as well? Or so would we would love to hear your thoughts on that as well? What is, you know, kind of coming next? What’s emerging?

Speaker 3: 22:33
Oh my goodness, so many things. So I I’ll I’ll I’ll finish up the other question. Please. So there’s the technology group. I will say that always confidence, lots of questions about confidence, lots of questions, no matter where you are in your career, about how to deal with a boss that skirts your one-to-ones, or you want to be seen as a leader or to be taken more seriously and garner respect that you deserve already. Um, and then uh literally just like practical skills. There’s so many of us that are that have not had training globally that again, no matter where you are, I’ve I I train people that have been 17 all the way up to, I mean 12 if you count my daughter, eight if you count my youngest, but uh I’ve had 17-year-olds in my program all the way up to um people in their 60s and that are really good and like even love technology, it doesn’t matter where you are, but you don’t know what you don’t know, and I find that there’s gaps in our knowledge, and so I’m I’m looking for the gaps. So I’m gonna be like, did you tell me about your day? How are you doing this? And then I want to help you streamline it, make it better, and and because I collected all this information and and I have my own crazy creative brain that that has piggybacked off of that. Um, and so that sort of a lot of the topics about what we do inside the officials, we have weekly lives, and we do, we just started um weekly mentorship and uh inside the community, and but we also have one-on-one, and a lot of the questions are the same, which is kind of how we turn into a business. Because I thought if I just record these, then people can watch them for cheaper. Uh-huh. Because I’m always caught very cost conscious, very time conscious, and I’m like, go watch this thing. I’ll tell you exactly where to look for it. Yes. And then if you still have questions, then you’ll know the basis, and then we can really concentrate. Let’s use that hour with me. Uh obviously, I don’t want to waste time. Let’s use that hour with me as powerful, uh effectively as we can and make it act. And that’s sort of how it’s and obviously I have to.

Speaker 2: 24:44
And they can do it in their own pace, you know. That’s the thing about the on-demand, which uh it’s wonderful.

Speaker 3: 24:50
Exactly, exactly. And I’m very accessible. I want to be very accessible to people and be like members, even in our freemium, DM me and ask me questions. And I just want to help our community. Um, okay, so back to question number two um about uh technology and maybe what what are we excited about? Exactly. Yeah. Um obviously AI is just ever changing. It’s not going away, right? It’s not going away. It’s more terrifying than ever. And this is from someone who trains on it, is excited about it. Um I to be honest, right now I’m mostly worried about the environmental impacts of it and what it’s going to do to poor communities where they’re buying up all this space. Here in the UK, they just did this huge, they just launched this huge initiative to build more databases. And so where are those databases going to come from? Where are they going to put them? What’s it going to do to the groundwater rights? Yeah. And if you’re not asking these questions or you’re not paying attention at a political level, then you can’t.

Speaker 2: 25:54
Totally agree.

Speaker 3: 25:55
Thanks for for mentioning.

Speaker 2: 25:57
Thanks for mentioning this. It’s important that we raise awareness. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:00
Yeah, absolutely. And and literally, if you have questions and concerns, like you have to talk to, you have to write to your politicians. You really do, because they’re making decisions without you just grumbling at home. Doesn’t it’s not going to do anything. But um in in so many other ways, it’s amazing. It allows you to uh not only uh have your own sounding board, you can have your own assistant. But at the moment, most people are using it for content or to ask questions. They’re diving deep enough into how to do things, how to set things up. What’s really coming is hopefully it’s slow, especially in the corporate world. We’re really just getting into like corporate training, asking about AI right now. Um, because it I’ve had like three requests bang, bang, bang, can you talk about AI from from big companies? And it’s been out for years, years and years now. Right. Um they’re finally, I think because Microsoft kind of shoved it into things. Copilot is now, we have co-pilot in our uh I’m sorry, I’m not co-pilot, we have um Gemini in Google at the moment.

Speaker 2: 27:10
Which is what the expert says uh the best AI out there right now. I mean they they put a lot of effort in it. You know, they did they didn’t start well with BART back then, but then they’re back with Gemini.

Speaker 3: 27:22
Yes, I understood. I love the name. I loved the name BARD, but it doesn’t roll off the tongue. It doesn’t, people wanted something tech, but I understood tech it sounded futuristic in tech, but I understood like this BARD, this um this conversational way of learning. I loved the name at the time. But um, but I’m glad that they’ve they’ve changed it to Gemini. But um there’s some really interesting people that people should be listening to, like Mo Godot, who was former uh Google X um CEO, and he has some really interesting thoughts on AI and uh and really looking into what philosophers say about AI um as well. But I think the big bit is what we’re talking about now, is we’re talking about agents. So uh I just watched um Google invited me to a session that they hosted with the CEO of Anthropic, which is Claude, and the the AI tool Claude, which I like for different things. You can see they’ve different personalities.

Speaker 2: 28:25
Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 28:25
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, he basically said the future is each person will be in charge of a team of agents. So as an assistant or an admin, you may have a bunch of agent, AI agents that are literally doing work on their own and you are managing and tweaking and streamlining that and adding new things to it. Yeah. It’s really interesting because we’re now gonna be in a place where they’re literally doing things that we don’t know how the back end is working. So we’re gonna see lots of new businesses. VAs are um using it in incredible ways to figure out how to audit calendars. Um, but it’s telling them how, and it’s still telling them how to do it manually. There’s a conversation at the moment about how we kind of use AI backwards. Have you seen this? Like we ask a question, it gives us a huge answer, and then we streamline it down to what we are what we thought in our brains like was there was what we were trying to get to. And actually we’re we’re we’re condensing it because we can’t handle all the information it’s telling us. And so if we really said, I want to solve this whole problem, you could potentially be talking back and forth with this thing that does it, and then it helps you set up agents to make it work. Um and that’s really exciting. But I think where we’re really at as an industry right now is is automation. We should automation like even just Outlook rules, like people aren’t using rules to forward things into their boxes. Quicksands, exactly. Like people aren’t using these filters, these forwards, these automatic labeling or uh conditional formatting, or um in Microsoft using Power Automate to get texts from their to from their box into Microsoft Lists, which I’m currently that’s my favorite tool at the moment um within the Microsoft environment. If it was outside its Notion all day long. We even built a we have something called the Admin Attache, which is a downloadable template that is a higher dashboard for administrative professionals. So you can track your um, I always think that we should think of ourselves as as if we are consultants, as if we are our own business and our employer is the client, right? And so that job description is services they’re asking you to provide. If you can identify those, then you can identify the ones they’re asking you to provide that are outside of that scope. And those are negotiable, right? And that’s how you create boundaries and priorities is stop saying yes to everything, or everyone gets burned out, right? And um, so you can track all your services, you can track all your to-do list against those. Like, are they all falling under those, or should I start tracking these other functions or services that I want to maybe ta upsell to them in our my annual client review or performance review? And uh the dossier, their brief on their executive, it’s it’s filled with templates, um, their meeting notes, itinerary, all of that. I love Notion because it is like it’s like building your own software that works for you as a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 31:37
I’ve never worked with intuition, but I hear so many good things about it, and you’re just one of them, you know, highlighting the tool. So it’s it’s good to hear that, you know. And as you said, there are so many other alternatives out there. You don’t have to stick with that of that. Test it out. For example, I’m a big Trello fan, you know. I love Trello. I always worked on Trello, it was always my choice. Not the planner, not Zana. I was a Trello girl, and I love it.

Speaker 3: 32:02
I I started with Trello too. So I went from no, I always tell people, I’m like, this is I see like a staircase. It’s notebook, Trello, Asana, Notion, True. Um, and then yeah, and then just AI agents just doing it all for you. But I think um I what I liked about Notion was that I could, I think at each stage I find, I I was like, can it do this? And I asked in another question a little bit more, and I was always on search for this tech that could hold all the things because Microsoft, like I said, is a mess with their productivity tools. Like they’re they literally call themselves a productivity suite, and there is no can like useful way to track your to-do list except for four engineers. So at you mentioned Trello, so that’s Atlassian, who own Loom, which is great for recording little videos now. Um, they own Jira, which is like a um sort of a project management uh help desk thing. And right like a ticket. They have their own tools. Yeah, exactly. And I think of us like a help desk. We get a ton of requests. So true. Yeah. Right? You have to, I tell them, I’m like, you have to schedule yourself as if you are a plumber. Like if I call and ask for a plumber, they’re going to say, okay, what’s your request? I will put you in with so-and-so. They’ll call this is we’ve assigned the work for this time. We should be thinking of ourselves. We do that for our executives, but we don’t do it for ourselves, right? And there’s better tools for software engineers. And I just think that our industry is the female-led version of what is a male-led industry in software engineers. We have to-do list, we use Kanban boards now, which I’m really upset they came up with that and not us. But it’s awesome that we get to use it. We just deal in human code and they deal in code code. We have to be at a desk where people can talk to us. They want to be in their own offices. They hate open plan, they get tons of training budget. Like we need to start showcasing how we are the same. We’re problems. We have those things we have to fix, but reminder. And there’s new features we’re always adding. So I um I think that’s really important. That, and it’s one of the reasons why I like I I think we should all be really trying to learn more technology language at a really practical level. And it’s it’s so intuitive now. You literally can talk to it, and it will tell you, you don’t have to, it will literally tell you what to do.

Speaker 2: 34:26
So, what’s your actually Yeah, because you know, I’m curious to find out as well. How’s your personal learning journey? I mean, how do you learn? Because you know, you are so into tech. And do you schedule time with yourself when you know I’m gonna watch this video, I’m gonna dive into that tool? What type of learner are you? Are you into the visual stuff? Are you too uh like, oh, I listen to a podcast? I I I love to talk with other experts, right? This is the way I learn when I have an open conversation, or do you need to build something in order to create it? I always find it fascinating uh because I’m a vigilant and and auditive learner. Um, so how’s it working for you?

Speaker 3: 35:07
I love that. Uh it was so funny because I thought about this um because we were preparing for this, that was one of the things we the a topic you we kind of landed on, and I thought, I definitely don’t schedule it because of the ADHD and the single mom and the business. I am, you know, I I’m just as I was when I was an early assistant with a you know, I’m I’m kind of on the same journey as a business owner, right? And I’m trying to catch all the things and life changes, kids get in a different stage. And so I heard somebody call this for 88 people with ADHD chaotic discipline. Okay. And it nailed it. It nailed it because it was like I can go full speed for three full days. I don’t have to even sleep. Like when I started the officials, I was pulling all nighters. I can go to bed at three in the morning. Remember, my dad worked night, so someone was always awake in our house. So our house, it’s like it was totally normal to be up in the middle of the night. Um, but then I need my downtime. They see me in front of the Xbox playing games, which is one of our next sessions about gaming and how it’s really great for uh creative problem solving. Oh, nice. I love that. I know. I love it, I love it. There’s uh and so I will do that to or take long baths to just disassociate and not have anybody ask anything of me because as an administrative professional, especially when do you turn off? Absolutely. I heard somebody describe a leader as someone who chooses to be responsible. It was a military gentleman that I follow. I it sounds like I’m obsessed with military. I’m not, I just happened to follow this guy. And he said that a young cadet said this to him. He said, What is leadership? And she raised her hand and said, I it’s someone choosing to be responsible. And he basically changed his definition of leadership. And so if you are someone who choose, so by definition, administrative professionals are leaders, right? But we choose to be responsible for the people around us. We’re we’re thinking for other people. If you have a partner, a dog, a house is a whole nother, like where you live is feels like a whole person. Um, it just you don’t switch off. So I I really need that sort of downtime, but I think I learn passively. So I either have an idea will come to mind, and then I’ll intensely research it. And I use my notion to as my second notion to record everything, right? And I’m one of those people that like once I’ve written it down, I kind of remember it. Menopause is messing with my brain a little bit. Thank goodness I have the second brain. But um, I love I use a browser called Arc. It’s a Chromium-based browser, so you can use Chrome extensions with it. It’s beautiful, but I can have picture in picture. And so, and I think some of the browsers also do this now, where I will be working and like I’ve been doing a Google training course at the same time. So it’s on one screen and I’m working. And why I realize I’ve missed something, I can go back. I listen to podcasts. So, right now, um, I don’t think I have the book here. I’m listening to Hooked, um, which is about how um we didn’t we didn’t stand in queues before and pick up our phone and stare at like everyone’s looking at their phone now when you’re standing in line for something. And that changed human behavior. So, how does a product change human behavior? How do you get people to use like the officials? How do I, how do I make it so that our members think of it when they have a question? How do I build it into their habits? Um, but also how we build habits in general as ministry professionals. So I will get the book because I intensely write notes in books, but I will also buy the audiobook.

Speaker 2: 38:45
And I will listen to me too. I’m totally into audiobooks. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:49
Yeah. I usually start with the audiobook, and as soon as I so I’ve actually listened to Hook about two years ago, and I want to go back to it. So I just finally bought the actual book. I would listen to it on a road trip to go visit Marta. We’re gonna have like a couple of planning days, and um I couldn’t make any voice notes because I was driving, it was attached to my Bluetooth, and I and it was in the car with me. I’m like, this book is amazing, and so I’m finally revisiting it. Um, but I love that. I love taking notes within books, like they are annotations everywhere. Very good and recorded that stuff. Like that obviously, I built again what I was looking for. I like to attend live, but I also like to be able to visit it and jump to the pieces I want when I want to. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t really like training where you have to watch the whole video really slow. Um, I want to be able to jump, my brain won’t let me do that. I’ll I’ll bounce. I want to just go through it. So I would say the answer to that question in a nutshell is chaotic discipline and um interest, interest-based.

Speaker 2: 39:50
And this brings us to a uh DHD, of course. You’ve been mentioning it uh a few times already, and um, also with your dad, the connection. And uh you you helped me um create an article for German magazine. Thank you so much once again for the expertise here. So, what do we need to know about? And where’s the connection to assistance? Because you have a theory, right? I do.

Speaker 3: 40:15
I think so. I thank you, first of all, for including me in that article. And thank you so much for you and Jody in uh Jody Mears in your other episode with her and hearing my name brought up. Yes was it made my whole day. Um, and I there were things she said in that about how things she learned from me about ADHD I didn’t I didn’t realize, but that’s the power of connecting with other people, which I guess I also forgot to mention. I will go and talk to other people and ask about learning, right? Yeah. And so I want to get straight to the source. I want to go, my brain is wired for efficiency. And so that’s what I want I’m looking for, right? But um, with ADHD, I was I’m 43 now and I was diagnosed, I think just uh three years ago now. I was just about 40. And to the surprise of no one. And I what was happening to me, I see in our industry. Who else would be drawn to a job where you don’t know what’s going to happen? And day you you can try and plan as much as you can, but you have to be agile and flexible and reactive, right? It’s not boring for sure. If it’s boring, I can teach you how to not make your job. I will look for problems. I will start recarpeting an office if I have to. I will I will find a way. I can’t turn my brain off from looking for opportunities to improve things. It was just part of my literally my DNA and also part of my upbringing and and having it be the service, right? So, but what happened to me that unmasked the ADHD because it they say it looks different in women, is that I started it really started with calendar invites. I I would I was almost I in fact, sometimes I cried. I was struggling with putting calendar invites in correctly for the right date and time. I knew a date and time had to go in, but I it was like I had a processing issue. I could I would have to read it out loud or I would have to use the dictation function before it. Would like sink in or I’d all I have to send it. And then it would like a beat later or something, I would it, I would process it and realize, oh, I put it in for the wrong date, even though I knew the date and time and I looked at it and stressed over it. And it wasn’t like me. And I literally, that’s my job. It’s a lot of dates and times. And so I went to the doctor and said, something’s wrong. And what happened was is I believe I started going through perimetopause around 37. I’d had my children, my estrogen had dropped, and estrogen is um responsible for sequencing. So what do I do first? Do I so for me I want to do scheduling first because people’s schedules change, then travel because travel for you know that sort of thing, but then getting caught in a loop or or getting overwhelmed that just frying the system. And that had never happened before. So I took a memory test there, they’re like, you’re fine. And it wasn’t until someone told my ex-partner that he might have it that I went, you don’t have it. And I grabbed the list and I went, Oh, wow. It might be me, because there was new symptoms on there that didn’t look like what my father had. See, impulse issues. And I was taught as a woman in society, you’re of service, you are quiet. I mean, I’m not very quiet, but but there’s a there’s a level in which you you don’t make a fuss. You unless it’s a real injustice or something, but you you want to make people’s lives easier, not harder. And um, and when that fell, um I finally got diagnosed and it it I started to see the pattern that I’m very good at pattern recognition, but I I reel I had an answer to the pattern I was seeing, which was I would only do 80% of the work or what I thought was 80% of the work. It is technically hitting 100% maybe schoolwork, but I had a vision of 150%. Right. And I would always beat myself up for why can’t I just get this over the line of where I want it to be? And then I realized that no, there’s there’s a wiring issue. It doesn’t for in my opinion, I’m still working right to get to 150%, but now I don’t beat myself up over it and I’m trying to learn again, it’s a new thing to improve, but I think our industry is riddled with it because um of tons of undiagnosed women specifically, uh, who and people of color where mental health or something might not have been part of the conversation or just different cultures in any intersectionality. It’s it’s a struggle. And um, now they say everyone has ADHD. And I know some people really hate that that thing. But I actually think we’re the evolution of mass amounts of information and a little healthy dose of trauma. And so guess what? I I believe that almost everybody has some type of our way of thinking has changed. We’ve been rewired. Yes, but we still have the old playbook.

Speaker 2: 45:06
So how did you maybe you maybe you have some examples like one or two techniques that help you? I know one of the things is uh regarding your your clocks at home, right? Tell us about that.

Speaker 3: 45:17
Well, first of all, I’ve got clocks everywhere. So here’s my cute little timer. How cute is that? Dopamine. Anything that brings me joy, bright colors, I’ve realized to accept them. I’m gonna I’m gonna actually I’m gonna make it an hour so I won’t go off um while we’re talking. But all my clocks are fast in my house. If they are I and I and I, because of the ADHD and because I’m thinking about so many things, they trick me every morning. Every morning I look at the clock on the wall and think, oh my goodness, we gotta go. And I get in the car and we’re right on time. And I’m like, See, thank goodness.

Speaker 2: 45:47
I remember when you wrote this in the in the article. I I I laughed when I read it, and I and then I thought, wow, how smart is she?

Speaker 3: 45:55
Oh, that was that’s my my mom always did that. That was something that she or the especially in her car, because I’m a time optimist in that I always think I have more time than I do because it’s the efficiency. So I don’t want to arrive early. I don’t want to arrive too early, but now I basically have to trick myself into thinking I’m gonna arrive early and then I’ll think I’m late and then I’ll actually be bang on time. Um, I play a lot of tricks, I’m gamify a lot of things. That’s why one of the reasons we’re doing this game is really good, really good stuff.

Speaker 2: 46:32
Yeah.

Speaker 3: 46:33
So I I just did this the other day. So if your inbox is full, like say there’s 100, 200. I mean, now as a business owner, I feel for those executives, I was like, how can you have 400 or 20,000 or whatever? And now if I I used to have no more than 50. Yeah. And now uh at one point I got up to 400 and I was like, this is insane. Um, I have to clear this. And so I will write, so let’s say the number is 87. I’ll write 87, then 80, then 75, 70. I’ll do in increments of five until I get down to 10. And I’ll do and I’ll and then I just cross okay. So my first goal is just to get to 87 to get to 85. So I just have to clear out two emails. Okay, great. Now I’m getting some dopamine. I’ve done the thing. Okay, I just have to get to 80. Can I find five more? And it wields. You challenge yourself, yes. Yes. So I put a lot of things that will bring dopamine or a sense of urgency. I’m uh very good at have very good imagination. And so I can play games with myself and tell myself I’m I’m a successful business owner, like Sarah Blakely owns an international company, and I’m about to be interviewed with Bill Gates. And so I have to act like that type of leader, and then I’ll I’ll get stuff done. So I play a lot of games myself, but I’m very visual. So as you really love that. Yes. Post it. I mean, like I can’t tell. I’m looking at 20 of them at the moment. So very visual, which is why I like Notion. I have this dashboard where not everything’s in front of me that I need to see, and I can track things, grab like it gives me dopamine to have data, to see this perceived sense of progress. Uh, that really, really helps. And um, and the I will recommend a book for everyone. Everyone will put this in the show notes, yes. Yes, anyone that has XX chromosomes anyway, but actually I recommend it to anybody. But there’s a there’s a book called The XX Brain by Dr. Lisa Muscone. She is um she was looking into dementia and menopause. And it the whole first two-thirds of this book is about how medication was never trialed on women because we have monthly cycles and and and she is the foremost person that is really looking into how hormones affect the brain. And uh I had to start reading the third half because it was so depressing. She wrote it very well, she didn’t write it in a depressing way, but I was so angry, so angry at at how certain populations are are ignored. And I understand I come from a place of privilege already. Um, but I had to start looking at the positives at the end to be like, okay, well, what’s the action? What do I have to do? And I think we don’t talk enough about um menopause and mental health and especially how that’s going to affect us as organizers and executive function and processing. Yes. And it is something you can you can work with. And um, and I think this we’re too big of a population to ignore. And I I I highly recommend that to everybody.

Speaker 2: 49:35
Thank you so much. Uh, and everyone, check out the show notes. You need to send it to me first, so I’ll can I put it in the show notes. And also the other one the other book you mentioned, The Hook. I I I I would love to have that link as well, so we can put both of them in the show notes.

Speaker 3: 49:52
It’s by Near. Oh, I can’t, I won’t be able to say his name. Um, it’s so good. And it’s it talks about Instagram. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, why you go to a dinner and why everyone’s taking pictures of their food. Did you even go if you didn’t put on Instagram? And I just think it’s fascinating how these companies, it’s it’s about habits and how do you instill these habits, but for good, right?

Speaker 2: 50:13
So I will send you those. Great recommendations. I I will definitely look into that and also for our um community. So, my dear, we’re coming to an end. Anything else we need to know about you? I think. Anything we didn’t cover, you want to give give away any pet peeve or whatever.

Speaker 3: 50:32
Oh my goodness, how many uh where do I start with the money? I I’m I if I could tell our community anything, it’s that I I really the best way I can get you to understand that you have more control over your environment and how life affects you is to give you a model that you already believe in, which is we would never ask a supplier, you know, a company that we’ve hired to provide a bunch of other services for us that we contracted them to do. Oh yeah. And so we all believe that. We wouldn’t hire um a cleaning company, let’s say, to come in and then also start hosting our events or um start tiling the floor in the bathroom. We would and then just go, oh no, that’s you know how in the contract it says and help with any other things that we might see fit. That that’s what that involves. So you go ahead and do that. Um that we would never do that. So if I can give I’m I’m a big believer in transferable skills. So what can we learn from other places like software engineers? So in this model, if you lay that over our own jobs and you think of yourself as it, and it’s just great because there’s VAs already, right? So we have websites with services, you can look and see how they talk about themselves. And how can you think, well, this is my client for now? I can find other clients, and but I don’t want to. This is my ideal client. I want to stay with this client. So how does it change the way you talk to that client? Interviews become um, they become discovery calls. I’m there to help you. I want you to, I want to leave. I literally say this in interviews, which is I’ll say, Thank you so much. That’s a great question. I’ll start with that. And then I’ll go, I just want to say, uh, I’m so excited about this opportunity. I I’m really looking forward to chatting with you today. And I really see this as almost like a client discovery call. Like I I want, no matter what, by the end of this interview, I want to help you. Yes, no matter what. So if I don’t think I’m the right person for this role or I don’t have I can’t provide the services that you’re asking for, I’m I’m deep in our community and there are so many amazing administrative professionals out there. And if I know someone, if you’re comfortable with that, I would highly, I would recommend someone. So now the pressure’s off of me, and it’s not them judging me and I’m down here. Did I say anything? It’s we’re side by side looking at a problem in the corner, um, which is something I learned from Chris Voss, which is another great book called Never Split the Difference, which is the yellow. I need the link too. Oh my goodness, so good. And it’s all about how he was a hostage negotiator. And so how do you get that person on the same team as you? So, how do we take these elements and the number one uh the these elements that we already believe in, these patterns we already accept, lay them over our career, and then it we start to see all the things that we we we perceive as not having power or um as broken in the system, and then it’s like, oh, I contributed to that narrative that I am a doormat. I actually can stop, I can start talking this way, and I can accept that. So that’s my that’s my big soapbox at the moment to help people gain confidence uh at this time.

Speaker 2: 53:41
But that’s and that’s what we love you for for doing that, because it’s incredible what you’ve built up. You can be so proud of yourself, Lauren, all these years, and also being a committed mom, you know, and engaged in in the community also with other speakers. So thank you for everything you do. And thank you for being here today and you know, um, yeah, talking a little bit more about a few things, especially the ADHD perspective. And everyone, please reach out to Lauren if you want to, you know, take a deeper dive into the topic. Uh, I’m sure you offer some coaching as well if you want to find out with specific um assistance, you know, um some other techniques and some other challenges they might have. So I think Lauren’s your go-to person. Thank you so much. Last question for you what’s the number one song on your Spotify list or whatever music list you have? So, what’s on top of it?

Speaker 3: 54:39
So at the moment, I’m kind of going back in time a little bit, and I’ve been like for a year, I get really obsessed with things. Um Sweet Disposition by Temper Trap. Okay. I love, as soon as you look it up, you’ll know you should, I imagine you would know the song, but I also love this other artist called Still Woozy. And um really brilliant, just like Bop along too while I’m working. I kind of like lo-fi stuff while I’m working that keeps me going. Um, but those two are hitting the dopamine at the moment. Nice.

Speaker 2: 55:15
I can see you with your clock and the and the music. Yeah, I’m like, let’s go.

Speaker 3: 55:20
And I’ve got my Google Home Hub. It’s like a little screen. I just I said the name, it’s probably thinking I’m talking to it now, but I’ll say, hey, play this. Great, go. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:31
Oh boy, what a great conversation, Lauren. Thank you so much for taking the time. Uh, wishing you well, have a great summer, and I can’t wait to see you in a couple of months. And um, yeah, just continue our conversation.

Speaker 3: 55:44
Thank you so much. I really appreciate being here. And um, I hope I hear from some of you too. Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 55:50
And everyone, make sure you connect with Lauren. She’s on LinkedIn, and we’re gonna put all the details, also how you find the officials, how to get some more information about membership. Everything is waiting for you in the show notes. So take a deeper look and reach out to Lauren for all further questions. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was Executive Office Insights, the podcast for everyone shaping the future of the modern office. I hope you found valuable insights and inspiration for your own journey. If you enjoyed this episode, I would truly appreciate a five-star rating on your favorite podcast platform. Not only does it support me, but it also helps others discover the podcast and benefit from these exciting conversations. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And feel free to share it with anyone interested in executive support, leadership, and modern office management. Thank you for tuning in and see you in the next episode of Executive Office Insights.

Speaker 5: 56:55
You’re listening to the Leader Assistant Podcast.

Robert Hosking is executive director of the administrative and customer support practice at talent solutions and business consulting firm, Robert Half.

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Robert talks about how assistants can earn a seat at the table. He also shares tips for interviewing, breaking through the AI wall when applying for jobs, weighing job offers, and more.

CONNECT WITH ROBERT

• • Robert on LinkedIn
  • Robert Half Website
  • Administrative Professionals Salary Guide

ABOUT ROBERT

Robert Hosking is executive director of the administrative and customer support practice at talent solutions and business consulting firm, Robert Half, where he leads operations for nearly 300 practice locations worldwide. With over 30 years of experience in the staffing industry, he began his career at Robert Half in 1995 and has held numerous leadership roles within the company.

With extensive knowledge of the job market, workplace trends and training and development issues, Hosking is a trusted thought leader and frequent speaker. He has presented at industry conferences and is often interviewed by the media. Hosking holds a Bachelor of Commerce degree from the University of Guelph, where he graduated with honors. He is passionate about developing people, building culture and championing diversity, equity and inclusion in the workplace.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Intro: 00:06
The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

Jeremy: 00:22
Hey friends, welcome to the Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host, Jeremy Burrows, and I’m very excited to welcome you to episode 364. You can check out the show notes for this conversation at leaderassistant.com/364. You’ll find the transcript and the bio and all the fun stuff for this conversation that uh we’re about to have. And speaking of, I’m excited to have a conversation with Robert Hosking. Robert is global executive director at Robert Half. And uh what first of all, Rob, thank you so much for joining and welcome to the show.

Robert: 01:07
Great. Thanks very much. Thanks for having me. Great to be here.

Jeremy: 01:10
And just to you know be clear, I’m sure it should be obvious, but you’re not the same Robert as Robert Half, correct?

Robert: 01:17
Correct. Yes, he was uh much older than I am. But we do often get mistaken for one another based on initials.

Jeremy: 01:25
So there you go. There you go. Well, uh tell us a little bit about your favorite thing to do when you’re not working.

Robert: 01:36
So when I’m not working, and uh that uh amount of that time seems to get smaller, uh, but um I do love to travel, and uh that’s a really big uh kind of part of uh uh my life, but exploring and uh and going to different places, meeting different people, seeing different cultures. And uh so whenever I have that ability to take a break, uh love to get away and and do something that’s very different than uh than work.

Jeremy: 02:00
Nice. Where’s uh maybe a favorite spot that you’ve traveled to recently?

Robert: 02:04
So I was really fortunate and was able to go to India in the fall. Uh and uh it was fantastic. It was a trip that was a little unanticipated. So I had a friend that was going for work and I was able to tag along, and uh, we had a great time, and it was just so different than anywhere else I had been, and we learned a ton. The the history, the culture, the food, the people were all extraordinary. So it was uh yeah, really great time away.

Jeremy: 02:28
Awesome. Uh so you are executive director of the administrative and customer support practice. Um, is that right? Uh is that kind of the full title there?

Robert: 02:40
It is, yes. Yeah. Full title. Yeah.

Jeremy: 02:43
Awesome. We’ll get into a little bit of that, but but I want to uh go back in time a little bit and just tell us about your career journey and you know what how you ended up at Robert Half.

Robert: 02:54
Sure. Yeah. So I started, I’ll age myself really quickly when I say this, but uh I started uh with Robert Half when I was two years out of school. Uh and uh that was in 1995. So it was a long time ago now. So things have certainly changed and the business is very different. Uh, but uh I started uh in uh a role where I was helping people find jobs and uh and helping organizations find great people and have worked through a number of different roles uh during that time uh from a leadership standpoint and then uh moving into learning and development uh in the broader Robert Half business, and then most recently in the executive director uh position, which again ties everything together really nicely. So still very involved in helping people find jobs uh and uh helping great companies find great people, but also working on the business strategy for the overall business practice in terms of where do how do we stay ahead of the trends and keep current and you know really be able to adapt to what’s happening in the market and uh uh and be there to uh again be able to help people in their career journey.

Jeremy: 04:03
Love it. And we’re gonna talk a lot about that. Um, but give us, and you kind of tease this a little bit, but tell us a little bit about Robert Half. What’s what’s the organization’s mission? How do you, and then specifically, how do you all work with executive assistants and administrative professionals?

Robert: 04:20
Yeah, so Robert Half is a it’s a global leader uh in specialized staffing and consulting. So essentially we’re really committed to connecting talented professionals with companies that are looking for additional support. And that may be on a full-time basis, uh, where an organization is looking to hire somebody directly or helping those that uh individuals that may be looking for contract work or shorter-term uh project type or related work. And our mission is to empower administrative professionals by providing staffing solutions, uh, career guidance, and uh skill development opportunity as well. And then uh we definitely help uh executive assistants, administrative professional professionals find the right roles while advising those organizations that we work with on hiring the best administrative talent to help drive their business success. Uh and so that includes focusing on matching skills, um, career goals, uh, those that uh those evolving demands uh in the workplace and uh emerging skills such as AI literacy and uh other things that are constantly coming at people today.

Jeremy: 05:30
That’s great. So uh speaking of AI, how are you seeing AI impact the workplace? And of course, uh the assistants listening want to know how it’s going to infiltrate their roles specifically.

Robert: 05:45
Right. Yes. So, you know, it’s hard to believe uh we’ve had so much uh I think back and I think back to the very beginning of when I started so a long time ago, where the business was very different, the uh roles were very different in terms of uh administrative roles and and how they interacted and worked within uh companies. And we’ve had so much change in the last almost 30 years uh or so. And AI, of course, is the newest change, and I think there’s some there’s some anxiety around it and also fear around what is AI going to do for people’s uh career, how does it impact their job? And I would say maybe stepping back, there’s a couple of things we’re seeing. Number one, uh, that uh AI is is here, it’s here to stay, uh, it’s constantly evolving. Um but what we are seeing is that those that adapt and work with it and uh embrace it are really finding it can actually help them uh in their jobs and in their in their uh daily uh duties and responsibilities, but also help organizations move forward and administrative professionals can be the leader in that and really be able to help organizations evolve as they embrace AI and work with it. I think from a skill perspective, there are some things that AI will likely actually do and take over. And I think we’re already seeing that where maybe there are some more uh clerical skills or things that are a little more transactional where the AI can step in and actually manage. At the same time, what we’re seeing is that’s giving people the opportunity to do more interesting work and embrace different things and find they’ve got time to do things that are more strategic uh within organizations and really be able to demonstrate how they can support and help an organization meet those goals professionally. And so it’s uh, you know, there’s there’s so many tools it’s really almost impossible to keep up as far as what’s what’s coming out and how do you use it and how can it help me, but staying ahead of it is really important uh and I think uh will continue to be uh as time goes on as well.

Jeremy: 07:51
Yeah, what’s the application or how do you see the AI and assistants who embrace AI, how do you see that helping them earn a seat at the table?

Robert: 08:05
So I think if you think about the the seat at the table um and being able to not like I communicate um well um ask for what you’re looking for. And so um knowing that uh uh as you uh learn skills or or identified areas um that uh you believe could help the business, making sure that you’re standing up and saying, hey, I’ve got some ideas that I think could be very, very helpful, uh, and uh things that uh could work for the organization. And in my in an administrative uh role, um you see everything and uh you’re part of everything already. Uh and so there’s so many times when you know what’s going on, or you know, hey, this is inefficient, or this is something that doesn’t actually make sense, put your hand up and and be vocal about that. Organizations and leaders today are looking uh for people that not only embrace change but are willing to be able to put themselves out there uh to uh to talk about it and uh get involved with it. And maybe that’s being involved in a uh a task force or a group or or uh that the organizations are putting together. Uh, I think the more that you’re vocal and and really indicate that this is something that you want to do and you’re very keen to do and and uh and be able to help the organization move forward with, um more organizations will will certainly embrace it. I’d also say that companies are going through so much transformation right now, um, and there’s so much change uh and so and are always looking for um people to be able to help lead through that or lead uh as part of that.

Jeremy: 09:43
Yeah, so you know, you’ve been you said you’ve been at Robert Have for a long time. How have organizations on the maybe the executive side or the hiring side, how have they changed their perspective of assistance over over the years? You know what I’m saying? Like it do you see I know a lot of um organizations, especially in Silicon Valley, are you know changing the titles to executive business partner or administrative business partner to try to like uh get out in front and say, hey, you know, we actually see you as a valuable strategic partner? Um did you notice was there is it has it been a slow, steady shift in the industry um throughout your career, or was there a few key moments? Is you know back to AI, is has AI been another moment where it’s like I know there’s there was some news this week about a consulting firm in Australia laying off a bunch of assistants uh to offshore their work. And so uh I have lots of thoughts on that the uh for a different episode, but just curious like how you’ve seen companies and hiring teams and executives um reshape their perspective on what an assistant is or what an assistant does.

Robert: 11:05
Yes, I and I would say the answer is definitely yes. There’s really been an evolution and uh and more to that strategic partner, as you say that somebody that can really be aligned with the business, with company goals, with company strategy, um be able to, you know, from a leadership perspective, to be able to turn to that person and say, I really need you to drive this or I really need your help on this. And that’s not something that anybody else in the organization likely can do because of expertise and skill and what um that uh what an administrative professional brings uh to the to the organization. A lot of that comes from learned, you know, learned experience, having been in the organization for a while, if that’s the case. And in other instances, it’s taking what you’ve done in one environment and bringing it to the next and being able to talk about results. Here’s what I did in prior role, um, here’s what I can do for you, here are the results of what I did that are tangible, that really helped to kind of move the business, um the business or company forward. But I would say where in kind of I look back and think to the time when administrative professional roles were very transactional. So it was very much here’s the responsibilities and duties, here you go. And we’re seeing a real evolution to being very strategic. Um, and that then gets to an earlier question around seat at the table. How do you get to that spot? Because now you’re very important and you’re a tangible part of the of the business.

Jeremy: 12:36
Yeah, that’s great. So super helpful. I know we could probably spend the whole episode on that, but I really wanted to shift uh probably the most of it, the rest of our time uh to assistants who are searching for a job. As I know that’s one of your organization, Robert Half’s uh expertise, right? Um so how we’ll go through a few different things, but first off, you know, assistants listening that are either unemployed, just got laid off, are worried about uh upcoming cuts, or maybe they’re just not happy where they’re at and they want to find a better, better position in a different organization. How do you recommend uh assistants looking for a job? How do you recommend they stand out amongst the crowd?

Robert: 13:27
So, you know, that’s it’s a great question. And I, you know, you hear stories of uh of individuals that are really highly skilled, have great experience, and are struggling in some instances to even get to the stage of an interview. Um and um, you know, then the question is, well, why is that? And and so much of that comes back to that in today’s world from a hiring perspective, many organizations are using AI-based tools to screen whether it’s the resumes or job applications, and those tools are looking for uh specific things. So they’re looking either for key words or themes or trends or whatever it may be that are on um that resume that’s important to them for that job. At the same time, what we’re also hearing is that those tools are screening and in many cases screening down to the candidates that aren’t the most skilled for the job and don’t have the experience because, of course, we work with people. And so people come with skills that aren’t tangible. You can’t actually put them on a resume in the same way when you talk about soft skills or those ability to be able to interact with a team and build culture and all of those great things. And so I would say the number one thing is to really just make sure that your resume and cover letter really do highlight those problem-solving skills and um those business alignment skills. So again, back to where you can add value uh to an organization and then build and demonstrate AI literacy alongside that. So again, those, you know, you think about the traditional administrative competencies, but then how does AI literacy tie into that? So any experience working with or identifying or tools that uh uh that you’ve worked with, adaptability is really important and growth mindset. Um, so either speaking about that or tying that into anything that might be written, certainly in interviews, you can bring that out, but in applications, job applications or resumes a little tougher to do that, but maybe then it highlights where you’ve been involved with an organization that’s going through growth and how you contributed to that. Um, leverage um networking and uh and follow-up communication, I would say, to uh kind of really reinforce interest uh in a job. I I think it’s important if you’re looking for something specific and it’s something that you really want, make sure they know that. Um, and so the passion sometimes goes a long way with an organization looking for someone and being able to demonstrate maybe it’s an industry you’re particularly passionate about, or um it’s in an organization that you’ve really wanted to work with, or people that you would really like to work with. It’s okay to express that. Organizations look for people that want to be there and um and want to be part of their overall team. And then maybe last, I would say um strong examples of how you’ve been able to proactively uh contribute to to business goals and strategy. So, kind of again, back to um where what you’ve done before or what you’re doing now can help another organization move forward because again, I in sort of my world, everybody seems to be looking for people that can certainly help them with that.

Jeremy: 16:47
That’s awesome. So you mentioned the AI tools that are reading these the applications and resumes. Is there any sort of tip uh that you would recommend to help assistants break through the AI hiring wall? Like is you know you mentioned it is kind of it can be difficult to express uh these problem solving skills and in in a tangible way on a resume or on an application. Uh but yeah, any any like quick little tips to help people get through that AI hiring wall?

Robert: 17:20
I I would certainly say that um keeping resume clean, so uh, you know, not include and again, I mean the resume is one element, but and it’s uh, you know, we we you know, you often think about a resume document, it’s it’s what people put on it based on um what they think is important and uh and ultimately what they would like to highlight, but it doesn’t certainly in any way tell the whole story. Um but keeping it uh uh clean and that helps sometimes to get by that uh that AI gatekeeper. Uh so simple text uh uh or uh anything that uh avoids graphics and don’t include any graphics or tables or unusual fonts, uh, any of those things because it can sometimes confuse those systems, believe it or not, um, where uh they’re looking for key things or certain things. Then when if there is a job description, so something that you’re specifically applying to, um, you can pull in some of those key words that are on the job description description, providing they actually do align with your skills. So it’s really important because it’s easy to have a resume created for a job description using AI. The challenge is when AI creates something, it again doesn’t know you as a person. So it can sometimes put things in there that aren’t necessarily right or accurate or realistic. And so it’s very important if you do use those tools to then put the critical eye on it. Everything is in fact accurate and true and really does represent you. Um so there is definitely editing that uh that needs to be done. But some of those keywords that are there in the job description can help to um to pull through, and then certainly again tying back to those achievements on those applications. So here’s what I did, here was the result of that, or here’s what this the return was on this. I led this project and the return was X amount for the organization or uh X result uh for the organization uh overall. And then I think from an interviewing standpoint, because once you get to that stage of interview, the world there has also changed. Some of those are done virtually still, and and maybe the first one is done virtually. Treat that interview the same way you would as a face-to-face. So what you’re wearing, how you present, being organized, have questions to ask that are tied to the role and be you know very specific, very engaged, very passionate about the opportunity. Those things again go a really long way when it comes to uh to interviewing and really trying to get through to um that stage where you can be yourself and all those other things then start to come out.

Jeremy: 20:04
Love it. So, okay, so let’s assume uh you’ve crushed the interview, now you’re getting offers. And let’s say you get a couple different offers from different organizations, different companies. Any any suggestions on uh how to I know everyone’s different, every job offer is different, but yeah, any tips on weighing job offers against each other? Uh what are things that maybe if if you’re working, let’s say I was interviewing with a couple people and or and I got a couple offers and I was like called Rob up and said, hey Rob, I need I need help. I don’t know which one I should pick. What are some things that you’re you’re looking for in those job offers?

Robert: 20:48
Yeah, it’s you know it’s great. The great news is if you’re in that position uh where there’s multiples, it’s like the best case scenario, right? So if you know you’ve got a couple of different yeah, and you know, and and also I would I would argue that we’re still seeing in many instances individuals that you know uh uh do have multiple opportunities or or there are multiple things on the go, which is which is great. Um and unemployment numbers when you really look at the overalls are still very low for administrative professionals uh overall. And so that means there is opportunity out there and uh and that you we can people can easily find themselves in that spot, which is great. Um, I would say a couple of things. You know, I think I always I’m a believer in the pros and cons. So I’m a believer in the uh, especially if you know if you’re looking at something and you’re thinking, what are the things that really stand out about this role that make me excited or make me feel really good about whether it’s the people I’d be working with or the environment I’d be working in or um the team I’d be part of, the person I’d be reporting to, what does the company actually do? Does that in fact, you know, uh uh get me excited about it? Does it align with um the things that are important to me? So building that out and then building out the cons list. And these are things that may be focused around, you know, is it what’s my commute going to look like? How much time am I going to be in the car? Is there flexibility in the role? Flexibility both from time in office, but also from the way I might like to work in terms of the hours of the day that I’d like to work. And again, does this really align with where I’d like to be from a career perspective? Does it get me to that next step, which can then lead to where I’d like to be? Does it make the move? Because I think sometimes it’s easy to look at comp and benefits as the only factor. But and while those are really important and certainly play into it, there’s a lot of other things because the workday, we spend a lot of time at work. We spend a lot of time with the people at work. And it’s important that those things feel good. I’m a big believer also of going by the way I feel in my gut about those kinds of things too. And so it’s almost like, you know, when you wake up in the morning, you think to yourself, where would I really rather go? Or who would I really rather work with? And that sometimes can actually help you make the answer or makes the answer a little easier, maybe to get to. Once you get there, and if you’re weighing options from an offer perspective, I also believe that first offer isn’t the only one, meaning it’s always okay to come back and ask for a little bit more. And is there more that we can include? Are there other benefits or perks that are important? And even bringing those up sometimes in the interview process can help to get there from an organizational standpoint, particularly when they’re putting together that package. So it’s a, yeah, it can take some time and some reflection. Again, great place to be in if there’s multiples, but even if there’s only one, still really important to be thinking about those things and uh and weighing those out because those are the things that uh will will in many cases keep you engaged and excited about staying in the role for a long time.

Jeremy: 24:05
Love it. Super helpful. Thank you so much, Rob. These are great. Um, any any final career encouragement tips for assistants looking uh for work? And I know I had an uh assistant client of mine, a coaching client. She was looking for months and very discouraged, and then all of a sudden she had like three offers within one week, and she called me up and she’s like, Hey, I I need help. I got all the so anyway. I say that to say my encouragement is keep going, keep trying, keep keep applying, um, keep taking the feedback and trying to grow and learn from it. But what what are your last uh career encouragement tips for for today?

Robert: 24:45
Yeah, and you know what, I think it’s a really good point around the the keep going. Um, and uh take what you’ve learned from one and apply it to the next, I think is really important. And don’t be afraid to ask those questions. So if you weren’t successful in one scenario, ask the question, what could I have done differently? Um what could have helped me to stand out? And um I would say that uh employers or prospect employers are very open often to giving that kind of feedback because you know you got to a if you certainly got to a certain stage, or even if you were even just in the beginning stage of a process that didn’t work out, um, they’re often willing to share that um that feedback for people that are interested in in knowing it. So that would certainly be one. I would absolutely say that soft skills continue to be uh a superpower and uh and really, really important. And in the age of AI, when everything feels like it’s so tech-driven and AI-driven, staying back and really focused on those soft skills, whether it’s communication skills, um, empathy, leading with empathy, leadership skills, those things that can truly set you apart and are are may help to make you uh differentiate you from others who may be uh in the mix. And ability to be able to kind of work collaboratively as a team. So many organizations today, as they’re back in office, and and so many more are, are looking for people who can help build teams and culture and um bring people together and work between multi-departments and multi-leaders and have those skills. Uh, and so that’s actually really important. And then I would can I would say certainly continue to invest in in lifelong learning. Um, there’s always things that um uh you know individuals can do to be able to what’s the next and the latest and greatest? What else can I learn from? What else can I pull into? So always be learning and always be curious.

Jeremy: 26:37
Love it. Well said, Rob. Thank you so much. Um, you know, thanks again for taking time out of your day to be on the show and super helpful insight for assistance all over the world. What’s the best place for people to reach out if they want to connect with you? And um, and then also Robert Half. Like, where would you recommend assistants who are looking for support and looking for help uh in their careers? Uh, where’s a good place for them to uh to start?

Robert: 27:07
So RobertHaff.com um will uh bring you right to our our uh website and uh kind of all of the different uh areas of specialization are listed there. So places to go. We have jobs that are posted in local markets. We have offices across um the globe. And so uh uh for individuals, depending on where you uh where you may live, you can reach out directly um to the team in local market, and that can certainly help you to get there. Uh and again, there’s lots of great jobs that are posted um today, which um you can certainly apply directly to. And again, somebody will follow up with you um regarding those. And uh and from my perspective, always open uh to individuals who would like to reach out. Uh my LinkedIn um profile, uh Robert Hosking at Robert Half, is a great place to go uh and uh and certainly uh encourage that as well. And you know, certainly here to help as uh in your in your career journeys.

Jeremy: 28:00
Love it. Perfect. Thank you so much. And I’ll put those links in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/364. Uh check that out and connect with Robert and the Robert Half team. So thanks again, Rob. Appreciate you and appreciate the work you’re doing and and what Robert Half is doing for administrative professionals and executive assistants. And uh yeah, thanks so much for being on the show.

Robert: 28:28
All right, thank you. Appreciate it. It was great.

Dawn Stallwood has close to 30 years of experience serving and working closely with leaders and their management teams – including executive assistants and chiefs of staff.

In this episode of The Leader Assistant Podcast, Dawn talks about how EAs bring space and perspective to CEOs and their teams, what beautiful leadership is, and what she’s seeing in the professional space related to automation and EAs.

CONNECT WITH DAWN

• • Dawn on LinkedIn
  • thebeautifulleader.com
  • floodlightbusiness.com

ABOUT DAWN

Leadership Counsel Dawn Stallwood has close to 30 years serving and working closely with leaders and their management teams. Her facilitation and work has been international as well as across type and size of business and organisation.

Dawn’s background and experience has made Beautiful Leadership a reality. She comes from a professional services (commercial and M&A lawyer and notary) background.

Having spent time in-house, law firm partnership and business owner, Dawn is committed to supporting her Beautiful Leaders and the next generation of apprentice leaders bring their best into role, deal or decision – and whilst doing so, grow in her own leadership capacity and impact.

Dawn lives in Surrey, in South East England.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy: 01:07

Hey friends, welcome to the Leader Assistant Podcast. It’s your host, Jeremy Burrows, and this is episode 363. You can check out the show notes for this conversation at leaderassistant.com/363. So today I’m excited to be speaking with Dawn Stallwood. Dawn is a leadership counsel, uh, has close to 30 years serving uh of experience, serving and working closely with leaders and their management teams, including their assistants and chiefs of staff. Um, and then she also um wrote a book called Beautiful Leadership. And uh we’re excited to chat with Dawn and learn a little bit about her career and the importance of uh you know empowering assistants and why CEOs or what CEOs lose when they automate roles of their most faithful uh inner office colleagues. So, Dawn, thank you so much for joining me today.

Dawn: 02:19

You’re most welcome. Thank you for having me.

Jeremy: 02:22

Uh tell us uh what part of the world you are in and what you like to do when you’re not working.

Dawn: 02:29

So I’m uh from the other side of the Atlantic. So I live in Surrey, which is a county south of LonDawn. And when I’m not working or serving leaders or doing the deal work, I have written a book, of course. But before other than that, it’s family time, time in nature, and um just sort of catching up with life, really. Life seems to get busier as every year goes by.

Jeremy: 02:53

Awesome, awesome. What uh what is your role? So you you’ve you’ve been an MA lawyer, and um tell us a little bit about you know your law experience and and all that and how you got into it, and then let’s we’ll get into more specifically um how you’ve interacted with uh assistants over the years.

Dawn: 03:16

Sure. So I trained as a lawyer in the in the normal sort of traditional route uh in the UK. So going through uh a law degree, then uh I spent some time in-house, which is actually where I have my first interactions really with um assistants and what they taught me, I still am grounded on by net today. And then I uh went into the city with a large regional firm and did my time in the city working in corporate commercial, merchant acquisitions on deals, disposals, crisis management, growth into new markets, and took in one recession as well, which is always always a good experience, even though it’s quite hard. It was good to have that under my belt. And then in 2010, I decided that partnership wasn’t for me, and that I wanted to be closer to the action and much closer into the boardroom. So I left and set up my own corporate consultancy, which is flood like business, and we brand ourselves into and into platform, which essentially means that whilst we’re doing the deals, whilst we’re doing the crisis management or the growth work, we also focus on how we make sure that we’re operating from a state of completeness without the fracture or friction that you can sometimes see in boardroom or management settings or in consortiums. So that’s been the last 30 years, and it’s been very varied and very busy.

Jeremy: 04:45

Yeah, sounds definitely sounds busy. Uh definitely a whole different world. I’ve kind of uh the I have I have utmost respect for those in legal counsel roles because I understand pretty much none of that world. Um so I I respect those who who dive in and and can understand that world.

Dawn: 05:16

The it’s interesting you say though, Jeremy, because we actually have a lot in common with those who are sort of general counsel or of council sitting inside corporates. The one thing that you have in common, I think, as an executive assistant or a chief of staff is faithfulness. If there was one hallmark quality I would say applies across the really great executive assistants and chiefs of staff I’ve worked with and the general counsel that I’ve also sort of engaged with, it’s that word faithfulness. It’s not loyalty, it’s they are utterly committed to the task at hand and being what they need to be in any given moment. Um and it’s quite an impressive quality when you see it at work. It distinguishes people.

Jeremy: 05:59

Yeah, let’s talk a little bit more about that. You know, you’ve seen that obviously in your career working with executives and their teams, um, or quote unquote inner office colleagues. So, what do CEOs lose when they try to automate those roles or try to get by without the roles of you know, chiefs of staff and executive assistants?

Dawn: 06:28

Well, I I think I think I could speak for most people when you’re sitting inside an organization where you do have the benefit of having an EA or a PA with you, and then someone comes along and says, well, surely there’s a more efficient way of you doing it. Maybe you Dawn’t need to have an EA or as much of an EA as you currently have access to. And in my experience, it’s complete folly in that it never serves the organization or the individual well, because you what you lose by thinking you can do it yourself is far greater, I think, than um than the efficiency you might you might think you gain through or the savings you might have uh through using automation or AI. And for me, a couple of the really big ones are space. So what do you lose as a as a leader when you Dawn’t have a gatekeeper, someone who is actually really managing your time is you Dawn’t have space. And leaders need execution space and they desperately need strategic space where they can think. And I noticed across my leaders I’ve worked with over the years, in increasing trend that they are busier than ever, and space is you know, it’s a luxury item, but it’s essential, and really the only people who can manage that space uh professionally and with I think with sort of more successfully than the leader would have existence. And the and the other thing I think that uh you lose is you lose um a perspective, so the outer awareness that an EA chief of staff can bring into a leader who might be zeroing in and focus on something on any given day is really valuable. Um, and there’s a risk that you can become a bit more tunnel-visioned, and a really good EA is able to help you understand your what the wider environment you’re in without um breaching confidentialities of individuals or without it being gossipy. They can actually do it in a really faithful way that helps the leader uh see what they need to see and then have space to be able to act on it. So those are the two things space and um uh perspective are the two are the two that I think you lose uh if you try to do it all yourself.

Jeremy: 08:50

Space and perspective, let it just jotting down some notes, that’s good. Um well what about what have you seen with you know, specifically related to the whole AI trend and automation? Um the capacity and the conscience of the organization. Um how how have you seen teams try to implement AI or try to automate things um like you said without an assistant? And how has that impacted them negative negatively um based on your work with these teams when it comes to to your your expertise?

Dawn: 09:40

I think so far the AI implementation that I’ve seen hasn’t been as successful as they’d hoped it would be. So I think there’s a sense of we need to do something, we should be involved, we should, we should have some level of involvement with AI. Where do we start? Rather than let’s diagnose the problem that we’re trying to solve for, make sure that our human process of it is as good as it can be, and then let’s put AI over it. There was an MIT study in uh quite recently that said um something like more than 70% of AI implementation projects fail, and they fail because of how they are not implemented, but what they are seeking to um create more efficiency for. So rather than actually solving uh a pure process that’s currently human, they just put a pr an AI process into that instead, and without doesn’t actually solve the problem. So I’m seeing a little bit of a pause if I’m if I’m if I think about the clients I serve at the moment and some of the large corporates that we work with multinationals, there’s a real level of discernment going on around what they implement and why. And interestingly, I’m not seeing um the EA roles being uh replaced, as it were, or sort of um uh uh managed down in any degree. So I thought I think it’s despite what you might hear in the press, my personal experience on the ground is that AI is going to take a while for it to actually um step in and either fill the gap or to to create efficiencies. We’re using AI all the time, all of us, in in the apps that we use and the systems that we use, but I’m not seeing it being used um in the in the physical EAs that are in buildings serving serving leaders that I know. Um AI is not creating worries for them at this stage. There will be a time, of course, where there might be more opportunity for AI to come in into the mix. Um and at that point, it has to be you know careful judgment, and it goes back to you know, would you know wouldn’t a virtual EA pick up the nuances or the heat of the moment in a team or in a deal? And I Dawn’t know your experiences, Jeremy, but I can’t see AI doing that anytime, anytime soon. Um yeah.

Jeremy: 12:17

Awesome. Yeah, it’s uh I definitely think that there’s there’s a lot of progress that’s been made and a lot of things that I am even using AI and automation in my role for, um, but there’s also a long way to go. So um I definitely am a proponent of AI plus humans, not AI versus humans. And think especially for assistance, it’s important to be aware of what’s going on and and be um okay with and interested in embracing automation in AI versus being afraid of it, but also knowing that, hey, you know what, you bring a lot to the table, a lot more to the table than just you know scheduling meetings and and balancing uh expense reports.

Dawn: 13:08

Absolutely. And if you can free somebody up from some of those activities to allow the EA to be more strategic, to actually add even more value that they can that they can bring because of their expertise and just their their human qualities, I’m all for that.

Jeremy: 13:24

So tell us a little bit about this book that you wrote. Uh it’s called Beautiful Leadership, is that right?

Dawn: 13:31

Yes, it is.

Jeremy: 13:32

So tell us uh why did you write the book and what’s what’s it about, what’s the framework, and you know, we’d love to love to hear about it.

Dawn: 13:39

So thank you for that opportunity. So I turned 50 in 2024, and with that came a sense of half time and a little bit of legacy work, I think. You know, what what did I want to do next? And I’ve been speaking a little bit around the qualities of leadership and how um you can experience truly attractive and transformational leadership and what it takes, and I was encouraged to actually basically write that down. It breaks out into nine qualities of attractive leadership, inspiring leadership. But the qualities only take you so far.

Dawn: 14:20

They’re great for a foundation, but it’s actually what we do in our day to day by way of a discipline or our act from.

Dawn: 14:31

So leadership was broken down into 10 practices or disciplines that serve as our scaffolding, if you like, for sustainable impact over time. And you put the two things together and you have a framework, and you also have 19 chapters of a book. And I wrote the book Beautiful Leadership because I feel really strongly, particularly for this moment in time, that we really need um beautiful leaders. We need leaders who have all of the qualities that the framework talks about and who intentionally practice um what makes them impactful in a positive sense. That leadership isn’t a destination, that it’s a journey, it’s iterative, it’s experiential. And fundamentally, for your for your podcast audience, Jeremy, that it takes a village, just like raising a child takes a village. Leadership takes a group of people around the leader, not just the leader themselves. And that’s really come through in the book when I was writing it, that you know, it’s it’s the people behind the scenes, including the chiefs of staff, the EAs, the assistants, the general counsels, et cetera, who help to make a leader whole. And that we all have a role to play in that. It’s very easy for us to moan and whinge, great English word, whinge about um about leaders and what they’re not good at. But perhaps we can also take some responsibility ourselves and say, well, on any given day when I’m coming into the office or I’m on a remote work from home day, what could I do? What one small thing could I do would help my leader be better today at what they’re doing? And how can I show empathy to what the leader is presently navigating? Because it’s often uh entirely misunderstood, just what they are, what they’re sort of coping with. And that’s where the assistance come in because you’ve got a visibility that a lot of the um organization Dawn’t have. And sometimes not even the C-suites or the management teams have full visibility of really what’s what’s burdening a leader. So I’m I think it’s really important to be transparent and have empathy and to show some of these qualities and that we all play our we all play our part.

Jeremy: 16:48

Yeah, that’s great. So what what’s maybe a couple of examples of of practices um that you th you think apply maybe even more so to the assistant role from from the book?

Dawn: 17:01

Well so I’m actually going to read so one of the practices is S for spaces and setting boundaries. And uh there’s a page, page on page 261, I think it is, where it says um Whilst on the topic of protecting space and boundaries, I would like to make a bit of a plea. Leaders and boards, please protect the roles of executive assistants and chiefs of staff. Dawn’t think that AI or other automation can entirely replace their effectiveness and stewardship of your space and help you to manage relationships. In my experience, the least strung out, most calm leaders are those who have these business professionals in their organizations. By all means augment AI into their roles to make the task easier, but do value the human touch of their role as highly as you can. I never fully appreciated my personal assistance during my law firm tenure. When I left that setting and set out to run the business, it was a moment of awakening as to their importance. AI or other automation will not gauge the nuances of your team, the heat of the moment, the personalities involved, and the cacophony of voices the leader must respond to. I would not be without an executive assistant resource and help now. I come as a package. Before you read on, consider this question. Who is guarding your space and helping you maintain appropriate and reasonable boundaries? Someone needs to be. Assume that you may not have the capacity to do this yourself. Certainly not all of the time. Can I encourage you to consider this support in your organization? It could be a game changer for you. So S for space as a practice is really key.

Dawn: 18:54

Execute as a practice.

Dawn: 18:60

You enable the leader to basically complete the tasks that are set for them. So execution and space are very important. Hold um, it’s a third practice. Uh the practice of hold, which is essentially hold on, so custodian, the faithfulness part, hold out. So sometimes the the need to wait well whilst you’re get seeking clarity and hold off the art of restraint. I’ve worked with some leaders over the years who have been very, very cross about a situation, something where they feel there’s been a lack of justice or a significant breakdown in a relationship. And a good EA chief of staff, concierge, can come alongside the chief, that leader in the heat of the moment and can just help them bring them down to be a safe space for them to talk to. So I think that that’s often not talked about enough. Just how important the holding pattern that an EA, an assistant, can provide to the leader. It’s a really fundamental role. You could go through every practice in this book, Jeremy, all 10 of the practices, and see uh where the assistant is important, you know. Listen to learn, execute to earn respect, adaptation, practice difficulty, practice empowerment, practice resilience, space, hold, practice improvement and practice purpose. So help them helping the leader cast their vision and maintain it. In each instance, you can see that a leader is enabled, equipped, and um amplified by the practices of their assistant. So while they’re in the book.

Jeremy: 20:41

That’s great, Dawn. Thanks for sharing, and definitely we’ll link to Your book and uh so people can find it and check it out. Beautiful leadership. Uh I’ll put all the links to that in your website and LinkedIn and everything in the show notes at leader leaderassistant.com slash three six three. Again, check out Dawn’s book and uh website and and LinkedIn at leaderassistant.com/363 for all those links. Uh and yeah, Dawn, I appreciate you taking time. Um, you know, the listeners Dawn’t necessarily know that we we moved the uh moved the time of the interview and you were very flexible and I was late because I was dealing with the fire from my executive. Um, but I’m sure the uh assistants listening can also very much relate to uh having something scheduled and things going a little bit haywire uh dealing with uh last-minute details. So appreciate your understanding and appreciate your passion and work uh in the leadership space. But then I also really um thankful for your support of the support staff like assistants like myself, chiefs of staff, and and more. So thank you so much.

Dawn: 22:05

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Jeremy: 22:07

Awesome. Thanks again, Dawn, and thank you for listening. And be sure to again check out the show notes, uh, leaderassistant.com/363. And if you enjoyed this episode, um would really appreciate a review on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you listen to the show on.