Regards.

“I will conclude my blog with the hero of Wikis, Ercan. Ercan acts as our host and our tutor. With his questions he added alot of fun and joy, as well as, alot of precious information, instructions and invitations. Unfortunately Ercan, I didn’t start yet help in making the open source software better. But, I promise you to try my best as a reply to your invitation. In his blog about the future of open resources movement and free software, Ercan seems obtimistic and he stresses the importance of cooperation between governments in order to acheive the goal of Free Software and Open Resources movement.

He provides a great deal of examples and links about the methods of applying software techniques. He was really great”

Merhaba Noura,

>>Unfortunately Ercan, I didn’t start yet help in making the open source software better. But, I promise you to try my best as a reply to your invitation.
That is a good start - tell me please more, when you have done something in that area. See you, Erkan

Hello Kirstin,

thank you for the feedback. I will try to use less comma from now on. See you,
Erkan

Are you taking a course on WikiVersity? Is this for your own personal development? How did you find out about it….

Also, I know that on WikiEd, someone is developing a handbook on OERs….I’m wondering if there might be a Handout created…almost as a ‘learning activity’.

Thanks,

- Randy

Hello Randy,

Erkan

I am unable to add a comment on your Wiki page; please let me know how when you have some time. Also, I wrote a substantive response, but same was lost when the system knocked me out.

stewjean

Erkan says:
I am sorry to hear this stewjean
In the Wikiversity blog you can edit pages either by using at the top of the page the “edit this page” button or when you are at the chapter exactly by clicking “edit”. As discussed you can find me in IRC.

[Erkan tells:
Hello Nils, you found me also here
Do you have a link to the book ? What was it about ?]

[Erkan: Thank you again for this wonderful picture. I wish you and your daughter all the best for the future.]

Reading is already a story itself. Many good storytellers are also good in reading aloud

[Erkan tells:
As Shan later pointed out, there is a man called Li Yang, who teaches English in an interesting way: “To shout out loud, you learn.” For Li Yang also the oral part in learning is important. More info on wikipedia.

Thank you for the information Shan. ]

I am happy that you did it!

[Erkan says:
Me too. I hope more people from outside India will enjoy the Birbal + Akbar tales]

[ Néih hóu / Nîmen hâo Shan,
you are right. Thank you again for all your good exploration services. I wish you all the best for your future.
M goi / Toa chie

Erkan ]

[Erkan tells:
Well, many good things are really easy to do, people just need the will.
Let’s talk in a few months again, what you achieved.
Bye for now here and I will post in your guestbook :-)]

A tester is supposed to break the rule and hence I break the rule.

[Erkan says: yes, that is the Pradeep I know ]

I have recently myself been using the Quicktime alternative. What disturbed me before always was, that each time after starting the tray icon installed in the autostart - and when after one update a windows service was installed, which just had a number as name and which caused for some people some many problems, the change was necessary. It runs now without problems and I am happy.

[Erkan tells:
Hello Christian, that is true, we can argue about a lot and in the end only people at Real who matter will decide. Thanks for the info about the initiative I will search after this comment.
I just wanted to tell what the Real suport answered today (and keep in mind, that I can not install the software ) and that I will answer them again to have a look on this issue:

ticket number 070513-000087:
…
If this problem could not be solved to your satisfaction, you can reopen this in the next 4 days again.
We are happy, that we could help you.
…
Our support can only help with problems regarding download or installation of already bought games, RealPlayer or with account questions
In the player menu ‘Help’ you will find explained all important functions of the player.
Unfortunately we can not help you more in this case.
…
]

For me Panchathanthra, Akbar Birbal, Suppandi, Tinkle stories are the ones that take me back to childhood.

And, you look very cute in that childhood pic!

[Erkan tells:
About the picture: thanks for the compliment. I try to do my best to get to this (exterior and interior) state again.
Yes, you are my source for the Birbal stories. I have already read some online and want to read them also in paper form. I like it it in book form - awakes memories to my childhood, where I grabbed a book and went in my bed and read (also during the day). I will also put the Tenali Raman stories on my list.]

Army Strong is the US Army’s current advertising campaign. The “We do more before 9am…” was part of the long-running “Be All You Can Be” campaign. Another Army slogan I remember is “Get an edge on life.” And in tune with the “We do more…” idea, there was “What did you do today?”

[Erkan says:
Thank you Ben, and I was pleasantly surprised when I watched the Army video to see the “Sesame Street - Hip to be a square” video popping up, which you mentioned above.]

The terms “bourgeois” and “babbit” are not common terms in America today — at least not in my circles.

In English, the term “bourgeois” is mostly limited to communist writings and is used to refer to the ruling classes or the upper-middle class people that want things to stay the same.

Babbitt is a character in and the title of a 1922 Sinclair Lewis book that is a satirical commentary on middle-class society. The Babbitt character definitely meets the definition of square.

Ben

you scored pretty good - the slogans are very hard for non-German people (also more info (pic, sound) is missing).

1. “Hey Dad, when I grow up, I also want to be square.”

I am now wondering if “square” and “Spießer” have the same meaning in American and German culture.

In the US, the term “square” usually refers to a conservative (in regards to tradition) person that fits into the societal norms and is not in touch with the latest trends.
it has the same meaning like you just said.

Others implied that a “Spießer” is a simple-minded lower class person.
Well, this I did not mean/intend. But I will make another game out of this (see here). I am challenging from time to time the online translation services. So I will use this as another research case.

2. “We wake up earlier.”

about “army slogan”:
I found commercials of “Army Strong”, but no media about “We do more before 9 am than most people do all day.” - who knows, somebody has more luck ?

3. “We can do everything but speak Standard German.”
I should have expected that #3 had something to do with the speech of people in southern Germany.
Well, since you were in Germany, you know that dialect. Here some Swabian to help you remember the good, old times in Germany.

5. “Firm as a rock in the surge.”
seems this can be used in all countries. Do others also recognize this immediately ?

6. “We demand and bring forward personalities.”
A psychiatrist? They will bring forward your many personalities.
hehe, I hope they also achieve to get them out of my body. Wait, did you hear that voice ?

9. “If it makes you beautiful…”
I always wanted to be beautiful.
my nose is not one of my beautiful parts

Erkan

In the US, the term “square” usually refers to a conservative (in regards to tradition) person that fits into the societal norms and is not in touch with the latest trends.

I did a little research on the web into the meaning of “Spießer” in German culture. Some information implied a definition similar to the American meaning for “square”. Others implied that a “Spießer” is a simple-minded lower class person.

In the context of the LBS ad, I suspect that the American “square” and German “Spießer” have similar connotations.

I should have expected that #3 had something to do with the speech of people in southern Germany.

Ben

According to Huey Lewis and Sesame Street, its hip to be square. I have trouble imagining my children coming to me and saying they want to be a square like me when they grow up. This could be a slogan for a product that encourages responsibility in children or it could be making fun of “square” dads.

2. “We wake up earlier.”
At first, I thought this might have something to do with coffee. However, I think it is more likely connected to a company that works in the morning to have something ready for the customers early in the day. Could this be the Bundespost? DHL? McDonalds? The milkman?

This reminds me of the old US Army commercials with the tagline “We do more before 9 am than most people do all day.”

3. “We can do everything but speak Standard German.”
This must be for a company with bad grammar that can do everything else. Maybe this is for a super store (Hypermarket). I first thought of Wertkauf but then remembered that Wal-Mart bought them. And Wal-Mart failed in Germany because they tried to take what worked for them in the US and put it in a different context. I bet that the Wal-Mart executives in Germany could not speak Standard German. However, I don’t think that this slogan has anything to do with Wal-Mart or any other business imported into Germany from elsewhere.

4. “With the second eye you see better.”
I already have two eyes. Is this for binoculars? Or window cleaner? Laser eye surgery? It probably has something to do with helping us see better.

5. “Firm as a rock in the surge.”
This sounds like a slogan for an insurance company.

6. “We demand and bring forward personalities.”
A psychiatrist? They will bring forward your many personalities.

7. “Try it in a gentle way.”
I first think of laundry soap… or maybe fabric softner. It could also be for some personal hygiene product like shaving cream. If I should try it in a gentle way, then I assume that I am currently doing it in a rough way.

8. “It was never so valuable as in these times.”
Is this for finanical services? Or maybe this is a political slogan? Maybe this is a public service advertisment encouraging people to spend time with their loved ones.

9. “If it makes you beautiful…”
I always wanted to be beautiful. Is this makeup? Or clothes?

10. “Well, is today already christmas ?”
Let’s see. On Christmas we get gifts and maybe go to church. Some people may only go to church on Christmas and Easter. I think this add is either encouraging people to go to church or telling them that they can get lots of stuff. Those seem to be competing messages.

I am looking forward to your German slogans.

Viel Spaß.

Ben

>I see this as a reminder that our value as testers may be limited if we don’t have any domain knowledge of what we are testing.
>Most of the slogans in my post mean very little without the context of having been bombarded by these in advertising.

very true, with pictures/videos/sounds the message gets even better transmitted. See also my response in Ben’s post.
And also about being limited as tester - well, this is a fact we have to accept and seek for assistance because we are fallible. Better to say in these cases: “I don’t know” than later: “I am sorry”

>slogans: Do they make more sense now?
Thank you again for the effort you have given to provide me the companies and products

This post awakes now another idea for a baton:
I will think of some slogans from Germany and send these out for a game play.

Erkan YILMAZ

Most of the slogans in my post mean very little without the context of having been bombarded by these in advertising. I suspect that these slogans were all limted to advertising in the United States — and maybe Canada. Most slogans probably don’t translate well out of their context and language.

Dictionaries alone are unlikely to help translate such things. (Although I’ve forgotten most of my German, I lived in Germany for 4 years and encountered such problems understanding some German phrases.)

I see this as a reminder that our value as testers may be limited if we don’t have any domain knowledge of what we are testing.

So, here are the companies and products behind the slogans. Do they make more sense now?

The slogans are:
“The ultimate driving machine”
“When it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight.”
“Finger lickin’ good.”
“Let your fingers do the walking.”
“Reach out and touch someone.”
“The quicker picker-upper.”
“Have it your way.”
“It’s everywhere you want to be.”
“Betcha can’t eat just one.”

—– If you haven’t yet read the post on my blog (and Erkan’s reply), I suggest you read it before continuing —-

And the companies and products behind them are:

“The ultimate driving machine”
BMW

“When it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight.”
FedEx (Federal Express) overnight letter and package delivery

“Finger lickin’ good.”
Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants

“Let your fingers do the walking.”
Yellow Pages telephone book

“Reach out and touch someone.”
AT&T long distance phone service

“The quicker picker-upper.”
Bounty brand paper towels

“Have it your way.”
Burger King restaurants

“It’s everywhere you want to be.”
VISA credit cards — they are accepted everywhere you want to be.

“Betcha can’t eat just one.”
Lays potato chips

Erkan Yilmaz tagged me with a few questions regarding testing. However, I’m not a tester, I just happen to be interested in some areas of testing, e.g. unit testing & test-first-coding. Could you tell something about your first tests? I……

I have just started reading the book and find that good thinking applies to both software testing and medicine. There is much in this book that applies to us testers.

I blogged about a radio interview with Dr. Groopman at http://qualityfrog.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-doctors-think.html

Ben Simo
http://QualityFrog.com

[Erkan tells:
Hello Ben,

yes, Pradeep has this and other talents.
So, to everyone: visit his blog and get ready for: that your thoughts start moving.]

My first memory of tests are memories of pain. Pain is the body’s way of telling us “don’t do that”. I remember testing a hot stove and discovering pain. I remember testing my parent’s instruction and discovering pain. I remember testing gravity. Testing dirt. Testing balls. Children test things all the time.

My first software testing experience that I remember occured when my father bought our first computer — when I was 14. I did lots of testing with that computer. I tried writing code and tested that. I learned — after losing a program I spent an entire day entering — that floppy disks needed to be formatted before data could be saved on them.

> 2. What would you like to highlight as an important thing of testing - from your personal experiences ?

I too believe that play (that’s how children test) and exploration are necessary for good testing.

> 3. Why is testing not trivial ?

In reference to software: even the most simple software can be complex. If it weren’t, we wouldn’t ask a computer to do it for us. Even simple programs often have to handle unlimited data possibilities.

> 4. What do you do after testing at work ?

I test my family. I study testing. I read. I blog. I seek out ways to improve testing. And, I’m a NASCAR fan. I find many parallels in software performance testing and the race teams’ search for the right setup.

> 5. How do you think testing will evolve in the next 13 years ?

I hope that skilled testing improves. However, I have doubts. (That’s the critical thinking pessimist in me.) I am alarmed at the largeness of the factory school view that test execution should be outsourced to the lowest bidder. I also have hope that if enough of us speak out, the tides will change.

> 6. Did you hear my voice ?

Yes.

Ben Simo
http://QualityFrog.com

[Erkan tells:
Ben, thank you very much for your answer. Let me comment on some:

Well, when you grow up with brothers, there is always some rough exploring.]

[…]Without philosophizing about - if spring has already come or was jumped over - but today a baton flew to me. The baton which I am going to take soon, came from Erkan YILMAZ, a software tester, a person asking questions and perhaps one time contact point of all testers. Furthermore the baton did not go only to me, it went also to some other bloggers, who do not only call themselves “tester”, they also have an idea about it, QA people and others.

My blog on the other hand is called “Only a test - and still more” (blogging without concept or: this blog is not serious about itself) and has even a testing category […]

[…] A few days ago I had the pleasure to skype with Erkan Yilmaz. Was really sympathic and of course we asked each other testing topics. He is running the blog ”I ask questions” and is one of the few German speaking bloggers who deals with the topic QA & QM & SQA. Long since he already made a call to German testers to network a little better (with the help of blogs?). This call I would like to repeat with a quote by Erkan.
German speaking testers - speak out online! […]

[Erkan tells:

Namasté (for non-Indians: this means “Hello”) Vishnu,
thank you. Did you also play a little bit - I am sure there are some other bugs in there. Help us please.
Phir milenge (for non-Indians: this means “bye”)]

The one I liked most was the site of Frank Westphal (unfortunately not so often updated).
Also nice project of him: rivva (the blog for it here), which collects posts from blogs and presents this in short view

So, that’s it for now - will add later some more.

Erkan YILMAZ

[Erkan says:
It makes fun to explore things -
and I hope my pictures will get better in the future. ]

I walk through life and
I get from everywhere ideas
I have the lust to talk about everything
I see the world again

Erkan YILMAZ
2007 April 01

Thanks for blogging about this but I realize that I am not an expert yet. Probably, you might want to say, “An upcoming expert” and I still accept that without humility.

[Erkan tells:
Pradeep you say: an expert is someone who inspires you to think (even) more.
And you make me think more.

For ME this makes you now an expert ]

Just a very short description what she does (so I can use this as example):
e.g. company A wants a credit from a bank - then the bank hires FA’s company to check if the value of company A given by A is really true.

How does the FA do this - what does the FA need?
- needs good observation skills
- must know the subject / if not, should ask others for help
- intuition skills
- appropriate education
- social skills / management opinion of company A influences FA’s work
- her work influences others life

-needs good observation skills:
FA told that they once entered the property of a company and her colleague told: “The company has a lot of business” FA asked: “Why?” - colleague answered: “Don’t you see the many trucks?” (Comment by me: could also mean, that the company has no work and therefore the trucks are not on the road )

- must know the subject / if not, should ask others for help:
FA goes to the company and inspects the books. But this can be tough, since FA has to check everything. So someone at the company A must help FA: she told they go through the inventory and count all (she also said, sometimes they do not count all).
But not only FA needs help from inside the company - also sometimes FA does not know the business so deep, then she asks one of her colleagues, if the colleague can have a look on the numbers also. She said, sometimes she knows there is something wrong, but does not see the wood for the trees.
E.g. when company A tells: “This year we needed 3 times more of material B.”, FA did not know that also then is needed 3 times more of material C.
So, she told it is very important to ask, when you do not know.

-intuition skills:
She told that it is needed intuition, because if she finds something interesting or which seems for some reason wrong, she digs deeper. But this intuition - she told - comes with experience.

-appropriate education:
She told she studied business studies. This helps her a lot for analyzing the numbers. People should have knowledge on economics.

- social skills / management opinion of company A influences FA’s work:
I was told that once the bookkeeper of a company cried because FA asked, what the numbers mean (FA did not even tell that they are wrong, just wanted to get some more info). It seemed the bookkeeper had lots of fear from FA. She then calmed down the bookkeeper to not be afraid. So she also needs some good social skills, otherwise she only would have enemies at the new terrain. FA told, that how management feels towards this checking of FA is very important. It can be a difference if you have to search alone all papers from many file folders or you can ask someone to search for you – this saves time.
FA told that most of the times they are seen as the evil (actually this also crossed my mind, when she told me she is working as FA).
Well she also told, that if she sees that a bookkeeper is not doing a good job, she also tells the boss

-her work influences others life:
reason is: Depending on the paper company A gets money or not. Also the boss of FA is liable for the checking with his property, because the boss signs the paper, which goes to the bank. So, not only because of this FA has to do a good job. Unfortunately most of the time FA’s boss does not accompany FA to company A. She has to do it most of the time alone.
So - she said - she is also under stress to do everything correct.

first example:1
1. press on the left mouse button + keep it pressed
2. move the mouse cursor to the end of what you want to mark
3. release now the left mouse button
now the text is marked)
but: selecting a single word works with double click

the above example is correct ..

assume example 2:
1. press on the left mouse button + keep it pressed
2. move the mouse cursor to the end of what you want to mark
3. release now the left mouse button
now the text is marked)

what you have said “sometimes also one left click makes 2 left clicks at once - let’s see what other failures I will encounter”.

as per my knowledge
the above example is not correct i hope ..i am practically done the above example its not working some times also ..

example 3:if during testing your mouse gets disabled somehow, would you still be able to continue testing (when seeing testing now in the context of executing tests on the test object) as effective or efficient as you want? See it as a test for you, when something interrupts you a lot during testing, are you able to master this?

“the above example is good..as i am assuming with out mouse In the world 90% people cant do effective or efficient” testing or any thing for example browsing in internet as they want ….

Any mistakes in the above lines please correct me ..

[Erkan tells:
Hello Malli,

>“the above example is good..as i am assuming with out mouse In the world 90% people cant do effective or efficient” testing or any thing for example browsing in internet as they want ….
Well I hope you + I are now learning from this and increasing our skills in this area.]

[Erkan tells:

So, this person was not open minded in that matter. Unfortunately there was not much time to continue talking with him. But who knows, perhaps we have now someone who shows some more interest in software testing.
Now I am eager to meet the next person from court - perhaps next time I go for a walk near the court and grab me someone who looks like a federal prosecutor ]

[Erkan tells:
Thank you for the comment Malli.
Please see the following only as positive way to help me understand you better, ok?

Again: do not take this as I want to be rude, just help me understand more.]