Join Eagles Nest Ice Arena and Aidas Reklys

A. writes:

Is there a difference between the two? I have never taken dance and I see a cross roll as more of a dance step. I am assuming I would teach it a cross roll different then someone who does coach dance, but what is the difference?  Cross Rolls are in the Juvenile Moves in the Field test. When I was at a recent PSA PACE seminar, a fellow coach came up to me and asked me how I teach a cross roll; what a great question! The diagram below is the Cross Rolls pattern from the Juvenile Moves test.

How I teach cross rolls-Cross Rolls are on outside edges. I teach cross rolls with thighs crossed or legs crossed above the knee. I have the skater put their free foot down right before it passes in front of the skating foot so that both skates are on the ice for a brief moment. A cross step to me is when the free leg is put down after it crosses the skating leg.

The following are definitions from some technical manuals as definitions of both cross strokes and cross rolls.

2009-10 U.S. Figure Skating Tests Book

Cross Stroke (XS) | A forward or backward step started with the skating foot crossing in front or behind, respectively, the previous skating foot so that the legs cross above the knee and with impetus being gained from the outer edge of the foot which is becoming the free foot.

Cross Roll (CR) | A roll started with the action of the free foot approaching the skating foot from the side, so as to strike the ice almost at right angles to the skating foot, started forward with the feet crossed in front or backward with the feet crossed behind.  The impetus is gained from the outside edge of the skating foot as it becomes the new foot.  In this case, the change to the curve in the opposite direction creates a “rolling movement.”

IceMom.net: What Parents Can Learn from Figure Skating Coaches: Failures are Opportunities

IceCoach.net: Figure Skating-Cross Rolls vs. Cross Steps

ISI Skaters and Coaches Handbook

Cross Stroke | While gliding on the outside edge with the free leg in the back, the free leg is crossed over the skating leg and placed on the ice on an outside edge.  The other foot then pushes with the outside edge, is extended to the side and back, before it is then crossed over the skating leg and placed on the ice on an outside edge.

Cross Roll – While gliding on the left forward outside edge with the free leg in the back, the right foot is placed on the ice in front of the left foot on an outside edge (with the toes of each foot nearly touching).  The right foot continues to glide past the left foot on an outside edge, while the left foot is extended off the ice to the back and swings to the front before the feet are placed back together again.  The same maneuver can be done starting on the right forward outside edge and crossing the left foot for the cross roll.

If you are a coach, how do you teach Cross Rolls vs. Cross Steps? If you are a skater, how have you been taught Cross Rolls? I am especially interested in hearing from those of you who have coached dance or do dance!

So far I the most famous star I know that will be on the show is Bethenny Frankel. Bethenny stars in the Real Housewives of New York City, is a popular chef and has her own line of margaritas called Skinny Girl Margarita. Other stars to appear on the show include  former Motley Crue singer Vince Neil. Vince contests that  he actually was actually a competitive figure skater when he was younger. I am anxious to see how he does. Other stars include Blade Runner actress Sean Young, soap star Rebecca Budig, Disney star Brandon Mychal Smith, Olympic Gold Medalist skier Jonny Moseley.

IceCoach.net: New Figure Skating reality show: Skating with the Stars

SynchroMom.net: Synchronized Skating Travel Treats

IceMom.net: Beware the Maximizer Figure Skating Mom

The show was hosted by Olympic Gold Medalist in swimming Summer Sanders and Olympic Gold Medalist Scott Hamilton.  It was  judged by Olympic Gold Medal winner Dorothy Hamill.

So will you be watching Skating with Celebrities? Have you heard anything else about the show? Who will the skaters be?

There are four basic spin positions. Can you name them? I bet you can easily name two or three of them. The for basic positions are- camel, sit, upright, and layback.  In recent years, innovative positions or variations have created highly interesting and unusually artistic, sometimes even ugly spin positions. Spins such as the Biellmann, the pancake, the catch foot camel and the broken leg sit spin are new variations.  To create difficulty, spins are even done on the opposite edge as previously executed. For instance, the forward scratch spin ,which is typically done on a backward inside edge, is now being attempted on a forward outside edge.

In this post I will go over identifying the four basic spin positions, in a future post I will cover variations of these positions.

Camel Spin- A camel spin can be recognized by the free leg being 90 degrees from the skating leg. The back is arched and arms typically are out to the side although some people pull them close to the body. A camel spin is basically a level spiral position

Sit Spin- A sit spin is identified by its sitting position low to the ice. In order to be qualified as a sit spin under IJS, a skater’s  bottom must be level with his knee or lower. The back is at approximately a 45-degree angle and arched. It is not hunched over the skating knee. The free leg is stretched out straight in front of the skating leg. Arms are typically stretched out in front of the skating knee and clasped together.

Upright Spin- One of the first spins a skater will learn will be in the upright position, the two-foot spin. The most common upright spin is the scratch or back scratch spin. The scratch spin is identified by the skaters perpendicular, position to the ice. The free leg and arms will start out to the side, and the skater spins they will be drawn closer to the body and the free leg will cross in front of the skating leg.

Layback spin- The layback spin starts upright. It is identified by the back then being arched backwards and the free leg being held up and turned out to the side. Arms are typically held above the chest in a round position.

Can you identify these common positions on the ice? What is your favorite spin position?

The following is a simple explanation of the 6.0 system. The  6.0 system is a majority system, which is unique to skating. Each event is judged by an odd number of judges, typically five or seven.  The skater who gets first is the person given first place by the majority of the judges. There are two marks in the freestyle program technical merit and presentation. The two marks in the short program are required elements and presentation. As you might guess the markes for each program go from 0.0 to 6.0. Basic Skills differ slighting in that many of them will use the 6.0 judging system but only use a range of one. Such as 2.0-3.0. For each category technical merit or required elements and presentation a judge will give the skater a mark between 0.0 and 6.0. These marks are added together and used to determine a ordinal or place.

Required and technical marks are a judge’s scoring of the level and quality of  elements skated such as spins, jumps, footwork and spiral sequences. The presentation mark is a judge’s assessment of the whole program. Basically anything that is not an element such as choreography and interpretation of the music.

0 – not skated
1 – very poor
2 – poor
3 – okay
4 – good
5 – very good
6 – flawless

As noted above first place is pretty straightforward. Whoever gets a majority of “1′s” wins. Now remove this skater from your mind when determining the other places. Now anyone who has a first place ordinal, the 1 becomes a 2.  Then you find the skater with a majority of “2′s” (anyone else who has a first or second place ordinal). That skater gets second place. Now anyone left who has a first, second, or third place ordinal is counted as a three. This process gets repeated for all the skaters.

IceCoach.net: 6.0 Figure Skating Judging System

IceMom.net: What Parents Can Learn from Figure Skating Coaches: Demonstrate

Do your area competitions still use the 6.0 competitions, IJS or a combination of both?

Do you have a question for Ice Coach? Do you have a suggestion for a blog post you’d like to read? E-mail me! IceCoach@IceCoach.net

---

Photo credits:
Phone-pad.jpg: wax115 on MorgueFile.com
number 6: jontintinjordan / jon jordan on Flickr.com Creative Commons
Nature’s Number 6: CarbonNYC / David Goehring on Flickr.com Creative Commons
Eel Pond Buoy Number Six (Woods Hole, MA): takomabibelot on Flickr.com Creative Commons

As a coach, here are my issues: 

1. I feel guilty charging for time I didn’t spend with a student - But I have to also look at it from the point of view that this is my job, I planned on this income to pay bills, therefore it is not fair to me. Hopefully, I will get better at this.
2. I am very understanding if a parent calls me right before a lesson to cancel, if I haven’t made it to the rink yet or even if I have, I just go home and don’t charge them. But often times this does change my whole day. If I would have known I was going to have a day off, I would have brought some work out clothes with me and gone to the gym.
3. Most of the time I have another student on the ice, so I can spend the time with them instead and not charge the person who has canceled.
4. As long as the family doesn’t make it a habit, I have a hard time charging them. Even if it is becoming a habit, I have a hard time standing up for myself. I try to put myself in their shoes and be understanding of their situation.
5. If a lesson is missed I ask the student to reschedule.

A few strategies could have helped me deal with this issue: 

1. Charge for the month up front. If a student misses a lesson, they’ve already paid for it, so there’s no uncomfortable conversation the next week like, “By the way, you still owe me for last week.”
2. Make a policy, in writing that I give to new students with rules to deal with situations such as this. My rule would/could be something like this:
   1. Cancellation of private lessons must be made 24 hours in advance
   2. In the case of a last-minute cancellation due to illness, a doctor’s note will be needed 
3. Make a policy that allows for one cancellation every six months, or something similar.

 As a parent how can I help? 

1. Be respectful and always let your coach know as soon as possible you can’t make a lesson. Llet your coach know. I tend to check my email.
2. Offer to pay for the missed lesson
3. Reschedule the lesson as soon as possible
4. Apologize and don’t make it a habit
5. Bring your coach fresh warm cookies to the next lesson- Okay this is a joke, but it can’t hurt right?

IceMom.net: Does Your Figure Skating Club Do Anything Special for Advancing Skaters?

IceCoach.net: How do I cancel a private figure skating lesson?

Private figure skating lessons are different from other sport’s practices or lessons because most of the time, you pay after the fact. If you sign up for group lessons you have already paid, so if you miss a class you don’t get a refund.

Parents, what else should coaches like me do? How can a coach stand up for themselves and the income they depend on without coming off the wrong way? How much is too much? What are your coach’s policies? 

Today I am going to help a reader by answering her question about goal setting. I am hoping readers will help and share their experience too.

Here is her question…

After reading Ice Mom’s post about Commandment 10, I have been thinking about goal setting in figure skating.  My 10-year-old daughter’s skate coach has had her write down her goals as a figure skater.  Well the only real point of reference she has would be the Olympics, so her big goal has been going to the Olympics.  

My question is this, what are some practical short-term and long-term goals for a figure skater?  My daughter’s goal for the summer months was to land her Axel and skate a clean program.  She landed the Axel well this past week and back in August placed first at the competition which was her first USFSA competition ever.  Not bad, huh?  So what now?  I know there are many jumps and spins and dance step sequences and some amazing combos that she will be dealing with in the years to come, that’s not really my question.  I want to know how to help her set goals but keep dreaming (she could be the one to make it to the Olympics!).

Kids need to be able to have attainable goals, but also be able to dream. The goals you listed of landing an axel and skating a clean program are right on! It gives your skater something to work on in her daily practices. Skating a clean program is a great goal, with an instant feeling of accomplishment. If not met, it can be a goal for the next competition.

I have one rule when I send the sheet home: the goals must be something you can control. I want to win my next competition is not acceptable because you can never control other people. There will always be someone better then you on a given day. A more practical goal would be I want to skate my personal best.

IceMom.net: How Do You Cheer Up an Injured Figure Skater?

SynchroMom.net: How to Remember Necessary Items for a Synchronized Skating Competition

IceCoach.net: Figure Skating Goal Setting

Medium-term are goals they want to achieve in the next six months. These goals should be a little more difficult then the short-term goals, for instance landing my new jump, or learning a new spin.

Long-term goals are goals they want to achieve in the next year. These goals are things that will take time to work on, the next Moves in the Field or Freestyle test, having a consistent new double or triple jump, or building up my endurance to do back-to-back programs.

After each goal, I have my student answer the question “How are you going to meet this goal?” Answers can be as simple as run through my program more. This ensures the goal is attainable, at least in their eyes.  If a skater can’t figure out how she will try to meet a goal, she should probably pick  different goal.

The last question on my sheet is What do you want to get out of skating? This is a very broad question, but the answer tells me a lot about my student and what they want. It can give me a direction for coaching them in the future.

I give this to my skater as a homework assignment. Once I get it back, we review and talk about them. I make sure that the goals consist of actual skating and not something like “I remember my gloves” or ”I will try not to run over the troll skater.” I make sure they are pushing themselves but not to the point where no goals could be met.

Does your skater set goals? What is your process of setting goals? We all can get ideas and help each other so please share your experiences.

Here is “Moves Mom” question…

My daughter’s old coach was all about moves- one of her juvenile students has even passed junior moves.   She scores better than my daughter in component score, but not significantly so at least compared to the girls that are winning juvenile in our region (whom I am pretty sure have not passed junior moves yet). On the other hand, working it a little at a time is probably a good thing, rather than cramming (which seems to be her current coach’s style).

How important is it to be ahead in moves (compared to your freestyle level) and is it better to have a coach that works ONLY on moves?

Moves in the Field test require skaters to accomplish:

Moves in the Field were designed to correspond with the current freestyle level. The idea was, if you are working towards  a Junior level freestyle test, then you will be working on your Junior Moves in the Field. The United States Figure Skating rules require skaters to complete their Moves in the Field test before they can attempt to take a Freestyle test at the same level. Skaters are not restricted on how many MIF tests they pass, hence a skater could be at a preliminary level for Freestyle and Junior Level for MIF.

• All turns used in skating
• All edges used in skating
• Every turn and step is done on both sides of the body and in clockwise and counterclockwise directions

Moves in the Field teaches

• Balance
• Use of the blade
• Control of body rotation and how to check
• Body line to full extension
• Increasing speed and power
• Accuracy & pattern placement
• Flow

How important is being ahead in your Moves tests and does it give you an advantage? This is a very open-ended question because it depends on the skater’s ability, their goals, and the coach. In general, yes learning new moves tests could help. Learning new moves means more difficult steps and turns. If you can perform harder turns, and steps then your competitors, then that could show up in the component score. But a skater doesn’t need to be working on Junior MIF to learn some of the Junior turns. There is nothing wrong with a coach teaching an Intermediate moves skater to do a rocker (Junior MIF) in a step sequence.

I don’t think it’s smart to push a skater through all their moves test as fast as possible. At a recent skating seminar I attended, the demonstration skaters (who were all from the same coach) I felt were pushed through their moves test. One girl who demonstrated for the Juvenile moves was pretty shaky. I was shocked when she came back to demonstrate Intermediate and then Novice. Her coach told us she has passed all of these tests. I was surprised; a skater at the Novice level should have pretty good flow and speed, with quality edges. She had none or very little. I felt like she was pushed though her tests. In her defense, she may have just been nervous.I don’t blame the skater at all, its the job of the coach to find a good balance. On the other hand a skater may just excel and love Moves in the Field. Ice Girl actually loves moves in the field and she is good at them. I wouldn’t hold someone like this back.

IceCoach.net: Should my Figure Skating Moves in the Field Level Equal my Freestyle Level?

SynchroMom.net: Can You Help This Mom? Synchro Rep’s Daughter Is the Troublemaker

IceMom.net: Commandment Ten: Don’t Expect Your Figure Skater to be an Olympian

Readers lets help “Moves Mom” by sharing your experiences. Do you have a separate Moves coach? How far ahead are you in your Moves tests compared to Freestyle? Do you feel it is an advantage to be ahead in your moves tests? What do you find is common in your area, being very ahead on your moves tests or staying pretty close to the freestyle level? We would all LOVE to hear.