Shep Shepherd's Theology Blog

Phillip, thanks for commenting. Here the "do...

2016-02-22T10:12:02.510-05:00

Phillip, thanks for commenting.

Here the "doctrine of creation" includes more than merely the act of creation under its heading. That's one of the things Aquinas is on about. If the doctrine of creation is not merely about how the universe began, but more so about its relation to its creator, then the doctrine has ramifications not only for creation (as an act) but also for providence.

As for the comparison to the Son, there's a number of ways you could go about answering this. I'll briefly suggest two - First, Aquinas doesn't really believe the universe is eternal, he's just asserting hypothetically that it could have been. Second, the relation of the Son to the Godhead is a real relation, but God is not constituted by his relation to creatures. Generation and creation remain vastly different relations, not merely because of a question of origin, but because of the creator-creature distinction.

If 'the doctrine of creation describes God’s o...

2016-02-08T14:01:25.225-05:00

If 'the doctrine of creation describes God’s ongoing, omni-causal activity,' then what is the distinction between creating and sustaining the universe?

Secondly, this description of creation reminds me of eternally-begotten-ness of the Son, who is not a creation. Can you explain the difference in their 'casaulity' (if that term is appropriate for the Son), since the Father, as the fountainhead of the Trinity and author of creation, gives being to both of them?

I think it may have been arrogant of Luther to sli...

2013-10-29T03:09:39.791-04:00

I think it may have been arrogant of Luther to slight Zwingli's memory publicly. Perhaps some gentle insight directly would have produced better fruit. However, I do not know if Zwingli was publicly in err to begin with, and if so, how persuaded the case may be?

That is excellent! I was raised Pentecostal (Asse...

2013-08-19T09:25:25.897-04:00

That is excellent! I was raised Pentecostal (Assemblies of God) and have never heard the topic put this way. Very eye opening! I want to share this with my friends. I know a lot of people who are Pentecostal.

Very well said, Shep.

2013-07-28T20:44:20.966-04:00

Very well said, Shep.

I have often contended that the one who will proce...

2013-05-23T10:15:11.838-04:00

I have often contended that the one who will proceed the Devil, to whom we reckon the Anti-Christ, will be none other than Nimrod himself. The original tyrant of post-flood times, who along with his mother/wife Semiramis is the central and sole deity as the Devil's head in all false religions. This conversation usually divulges into a dissection of the hierarchy of false gods/titans and the fall of Lucifer and his band of angels turned demons, and eventually leads to a grand headache! However, what gives me the headache is not knowing that their is and end and what the outcome will be, but rather, seeing all the Pagan influences that have been absorbed throughout Christendom to appease the masses into conversion rather than asking for a change of heart and action, i.e-Constantine for one. I think the Tower at Babel says more than most people read into, and I have felt drawn to it's story for some time - basically under the assumption that Nimrod and Abraham would have walked the Earth at the same time, in essence juxtaposing Good vs Evil; as it will be in the final battle. Just my random thought/mutterings for the day. Hope all is well with you Shep.

At the moment I can't think of a work outside ...

2013-04-02T14:32:24.861-04:00

At the moment I can't think of a work outside of Lewis either. I haven't read widely in this area, however.

You're absolutely right, Shep, that the debate...

2013-04-02T14:04:15.495-04:00

You're absolutely right, Shep, that the debate about gay marriage was over before it began because of long-lost convictions in the West about the relation of sex and marriage to the ends of creation. My sense is that if sexually conservative Christians want to make any headway on the cosmological front, they'll have to start seriously showing their biblical and theological work. What do you think are the best representations of a readable and compelling description of a Christian sexual cosmology? My own memory only digs up C S Lewis' stuff which I think is pretty weak.

Jon, thanks for the question. By "express tru...

2012-05-03T10:18:01.438-04:00

Jon, thanks for the question. By "express truths about God and the cosmos" I don't mean that music is an expression of the ineffable. The expression isn't an intrusion but a reflection or mediation. Furthermore, as Begbie notes, for Barth this aspect of Mozart's music is only recognized by the reconciled, those who already have faith in God. Music only has this power of expression insofar as it is given to it by Christ.

My statement there sprung from thinking along two different lines: First, Begbie theorizes that, when Barth discusses "secular parables" later in CD 4.3, he has Mozart's music in mind as an example. These secular parables "testify to who [Christ] is and what has happened in him" as "witnesses." (155) He cites Barth's "How I Changed my Mind":

"The Golden sounds and melodies of Mozart's music have always spoken to me not as Gospel but as parable of the realm of God's free grace revealed in the Gospel..."

That seems like a persuasive theory, at least to my limited knowledge of Barth. In this case it seems Mozart's music would "mediate" truths about Christ and God's revealed grace.

Second, I understood the praise of creation here not merely to be an affirmation and expression of creation's own goodness and limited nature, but of the goodness of its Creator too and a proper affirmation of the creator/creature distinction. It expresses truths about God through humble praise, rather than the imposition of itself upon God.

I don't know if that spattering of thoughts helps. Am I misreading Barth? Are you thinking that "express" would be better replaced by "witness" or "testify"? How would you answer your final question? Am I answering your question at all?

Hey Shep, that was an enjoyable and interesting pi...

2012-05-03T08:46:14.720-04:00

Hey Shep, that was an enjoyable and interesting piece, thanks for that! Question for clarification: At the end you said music could "express rich truths about God and the cosmos", whereas I think the statements from Barth spoke about "music that sings praise to God in a way that does not try to step out of the limits of this world in a bid for divinity". Would you see a distinction there between claiming music (and creation) can express divinity and saying it can give creaturely praise to divinity from within its appropriate limits?

Thanks for commenting, Cory. I think Begbie might ...

2012-02-15T15:26:44.713-05:00

Thanks for commenting, Cory. I think Begbie might disagree with you a bit. The short answer is that there is some sense in which the words / lyrics are part of the music because words have certain sounds and are thus part of the sonic order created by God. I'm blogging through the book with my reactions so more on that soon.

2012-02-15T12:02:34.806-05:00

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"Qui cantat, bis orat." I think this di...

2012-02-15T12:01:52.677-05:00

"Qui cantat, bis orat."

I think this discussion depends on what you're referring to when you say "music." It's obvious that instrumental pieces are covered in the scope of the term as Begbie uses it, but does it extend to the lyrical content of songs ("song" used in the sense of "lieder": lyrics + instruments), or solely to the notes and rhythms accompanying a song's lyrics?

If the term "music" encompasses instruments and lyrics, I can see how we can distinguish between Christian and non-Christian music. However, I don't see how we can distinguish between Christian and non-Christian melodies, harmonies, and rhythms (though, I'll admit, the Church HAS drawn this distinction at various points throughout its history). Since melodies, harmonies, and rhythms do not convey words or meanings, the same non-lyrical content can be used for wildly different purposes (e.g. non-Christian hip hop vs. Christian hip hop, non-Christian hardcore vs. Christian hardcore, etc.).

Non-lyrical music is ambiguous: its usefulness comes not in objective verbal-propositional content, but in personal emotional expression. The same tune can draw people to God while alienating others from him. Both reactions are valid; the divine encounter of the one does not negate the disgust of the other, nor does the disgust of the one negate the divine encounter of the other. It's why the worship wars raged so strongly; both camps were experiencing equally valid reactions to certain types of music, but were trying to make their own personal experiences into normative truth-propositions.

2011-12-19T15:10:29.771-05:00

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Thanks, Jon.

2011-11-23T18:08:43.833-05:00

Thanks, Jon.

Thanks for the comment, Jon. I think you are certa...

2011-11-23T18:07:00.025-05:00

Thanks for the comment, Jon. I think you are certainly right. When approaching certain forms of music critically and discerning their worth, more should be taken into account than the music's origins. Music is far too complex to be simplified down to that. I was not trying to argue for the examination of origins in a critical endeavor so much as a constructive / imaginative endeavor. Leithart's article was about how there was once a musical style or form that was distinctively that of the Church, to the point that the music of the Church was recognized wherever it was encountered. The question then is what Church music should look like now - is there a way to break out of our current cultural mimicry and compose something new and beautiful?

For that, we must question where our Christian music will find its origins. If it is going to be new it will not have a lot of prior associations, though it may perhaps borrow here and there from other forms. But hopefully it will be something established with the intent to express beauty and truths beyond words. In some sense I think music and theology can have that in common - they are grappling with human finite limitations of expression. My suggestion is that the origins should be in theological principles or ideas about God and creation, and not in forms of music borrowed wholesale from the outside world. In this way perhaps the Church can produce music relevant to all peoples because it is designed to express truths relevant to all peoples.

Is that even possible? I'll leave that question to music theorists who understand the subtleties of musical expression far better than I.

You are probably also right about my treatment of rap music here. As I mentioned I'm not a fan of it, and so certainly not an expert on it. I'll grant that there are probably positive sides to it that I am not aware of. I've heard enough to appreciate, for example, its elasticity as a medium for interesting poetry (other music forms are more constrained in that area) but I have difficulties getting past other aspects of it.

Yes. good stuff.

2011-11-23T14:56:03.431-05:00

Yes. good stuff.

I think you are right about the subjectivity under...

2011-11-23T14:54:04.933-05:00

I think you are right about the subjectivity underlying most of the worship music discussions. I would question the viability of discerning the worth of a musical style according to its origins, however. Would not current associations be even more concerning? The fact that on Sunday I sing songs which are lyrically and musically married to the sentimentality and sexually charged tunes of commercials and pop radio is to me far more of a problem. Besides, even in the rap music example I think you've only represented the negative associations and not highlighted any of the positive roots behind that musical style.

Thanks Stephen for the comment and suggestion. I w...

2011-11-23T08:41:55.634-05:00

Thanks Stephen for the comment and suggestion. I will put that on my list of books to read.

I recommend reading some Jeremy Begbie. He deals a...

2011-11-23T03:15:56.873-05:00

I recommend reading some Jeremy Begbie. He deals a lot with the theology of music. He argues that, like you say, the integrity of music is not simply "What I like and that's all that matters." he puts forth that embedded in music is a "sonic order," which interacts with the rest of the created order. I just did my Senior Seminar paper primarily on his thought. His book Resounding Truth is great.

Hey Adam, thanks for the comment. I hesitate to m...

2011-11-21T14:05:43.355-05:00

Hey Adam, thanks for the comment.

I hesitate to make faith a purely intellectual exercise, for the reasons mentioned in my blog post above. I think your interpretation of John the Baptist's dancing flattens the effect of the event. There is a difference between the Spirit's work in human beings and the Spirit's work in the rest of creation. John the Baptist was a human baby, not a rock or twig - and he was a human baby destined to become a prophet, a human baby destined to know and proclaim Jesus, a human baby destined to be a part of salvific history. That he leaped in the womb is a spiritual indicator of joy at the presence of the Messiah, which means somehow John knew spiritually who Jesus was. John wasn't an inanimate rock being shaken by the Holy Spirit - he was a human being reacting to a presence, by the grace of the Spirit.

Though I respect him a lot, I find Dr. Mohler's article unsatisfactory. First, I know Mohler believes in imputed righteousness, meaning that just being innocent is not enough to become an adopted son of God - we must become righteous in His sight. We must be united to Christ. We must be clothed in Christ.

The fact that babies in the womb do not commit sins of their own (presumably, that is) is a moot point. They still need Christ's righteousness, and the only way to get it is sola fide. A fetus' supposed inability to sin is thus no guarantee of their salvation. Someone with twisted logic could use Mohler's view to argue that we should just kill all infants in the womb in order to ensure beyond a doubt their salvation and send them to heaven. Such a method would have a 100% success rate, in contrast to personal evangelism or training a child up in the love and admonition of the Lord.

Mohler's explanation also seems to me to flatten salvation to a purely forensic / legal exercise. Yet legal guilt is not the only thing keeping us from God - a severed relationship is as well. Humanity needs to be redeemed, adopted, sanctified, brought back. Mohler recognizes the need for Christ to remove the infant's original sin but seems to indicate that this just happens without faith being involved at all. Mohler has narrowed the question down to a mere issue of personal sin guilt, but there is much more involved than that.

Thanks again for the comment!

Nice blog Shep! I think part of it comes down to...

2011-11-21T11:30:43.193-05:00

Nice blog Shep!

I think part of it comes down to how you define faith. Erickson, for example, defines it as believing in 1) the facts of the gospel, and 2) in the person of Jesus. It is hard to see how an infant without reasonable intellectual capacity could hold to such facts. As for John the Baptist's dancing in the womb, no doubt the Holy Spirit was involved. Sure he can work through and in infants, just as he sovereignly works throughout all of creation, yet this does not indicate saving faith or repentance.

Here is an interesting article I came across a couple of days ago by Dr. Mohler:
http://www.albertmohler.com/2009/07/16/the-salvation-of-the-little-ones-do-infants-who-die-go-to-heaven/

I wonder if the sentiment in Jeremiah 1:5 is relev...

2011-10-18T17:41:26.011-04:00

I wonder if the sentiment in Jeremiah 1:5 is relevant here.

God knew us in the womb and chose us to be his?

2009-11-13T08:57:45.760-05:00

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Matt,I am glad that God used that post to be an en...

2008-09-25T12:35:00.000-04:00

Matt,

I am glad that God used that post to be an encouragement to you, and I pray that He will work in your life to bring you into the joyous union with Christ and a wonderful relationship with the Lord.

The Peace of Christ be with you,
Shep Shepherd