Living After Faith

Daniel Dennett - Episode 68

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 18 May 2013 06:04:58 PDT

Daniel Dennett LAFs with us!

One of the Four Horsemen of the anti-apocalypse, Daniel Dennett is the author of many books, including Breaking The Spell, which is a must-read for anyone leaving religion.

His latest book, Intuition Pumps and Other Tools for Thinking is available now.

Special thanks to Sarah Morehead with Recovering From Religion for her help setting up this interview.

Mom, Dad I'm an Atheist - Episode 67

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 06 Jan 2013 10:17:17 PST

David G. McAfee, author of Mom, Dad, I'm an Atheist, joins us for a lively discussion of coming out.

http://DavidGMcafee.wordpress.com/

Disproving Christianity and Other Secular Writings
Excerpt from the book here: Morality vs Worship

The Thinking Atheist: Deconverted - Episode 66

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 07:13:02 PST

We speak with Seth Andrews, Host of The Thinking Atheist. His new book is out, and you can hear about it here.

Deconverted: A Journey From Religion to Reason

The Thinking Atheist Podcast

The Story of Susie

The Thinking Atheist website

The Thinking Atheist on Facebook

UnSaved but Sex Positive - Episode 65

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 18 May 2013 06:02:48 PDT

Alison Rose left the Catholic Church and now writes a sex-positive blog.

Coming up Rose - Allison's blog

Skepticism - Episode 64

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:32:06 PDT

We spoke to Desiree Schell, host of the Skeptically Speaking radio show, and Rebecca Watson, fearless leader of Skepchick.org and co-host of the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe, about skepticism and critical thinking. We focused on how religion can often keep us from examining claims critically, and how freeing (and fun!) it is to learn and hone those skills after leaving thought-stifling religions behind.

http://skepticallyspeaking.ca/

https://twitter.com/SkepticalRadio

https://twitter.com/teh_skeptic

http://skepchick.org/

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

http://www.twitter.com/rebeccawatson

- LAF Returns - Episode 63

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:30:54 PDT

LAF returns with our worst, and possibly best episode ever? Thanks to everyone who has supported us through our time off.

The episode we release tomorrow is rough. People who have heard our other episodes will hear a lifeless chill in my voice. Only in listening back to it did I realize how dead I still am inside. But I'm so much more alive than I was a few months ago.

It's hard work. The work isn't over. All I know is I will survive, not because of my own strength, but because I have a wife who is awesome, and I have a community that is stronger than any individual could ever be.

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 03:21:03 PDT

Amazing what a good sleep can do. Magic sleep meds are working quite nicely. Upping the Prazosin has my dreamer completely shut down, so no more terrors in the night.

Lunesta doesn't leave me groggy when I wake up.

A couple days ago I worked through a panic attack/flashback at work, and was pretty pleased with how I handled it. I recognized it and controlled my response. Inside I was still a mess, but that's the nature of the beast. Deconstructing it with Deanna helped me understand where this latest dose of hell in my brain is coming from.

Last weekend I had a good long talk with a guy who's been dealing with this shit for decades. At first I was depressed. Decades. It means I'll never be normal. But then I looked at his life, and he's a caring, giving, and content person. He still deals with shit, but he has his life under control and it's a good life. So I'm encouraged.

Sometimes people are critical of me when I slam religion. I do it because I know what it's done to me, and what it has done and is doing to millions of others.

Recovering,

Rich Lyons

Working through it

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:32:21 PDT

Here's the latest from the Shrink.

I start Lunesta today, and double my double my dose of Prazosin to 10 mg.

I'm on Lexapro, but still too early in the ramp up process to tell if it's doing anything.

Clonazepam for emergency relief during panic attacks.

Ritalin for focus at work.

For a while I bragged about being med-free, but always said I would go back on meds if I needed to. A series of events triggered some wicked flashbacks, panic attacks and blackouts.

We start again, knowing more than we did, and with better help and support than ever.

I share this because I know many of you care. I also believe it's vital that we bring mental health issues to the forefront of discussion. I'm doing that.

Thank you for caring and for your support.

--Rich Lyons

Pause...

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 23:56:29 PDT

We're taking a break. Rich's PTSD issues are a bit unmanageable right now, and we need to focus on getting him back together before we can do more here. We appreciate your support. We'll return when we can.

Consider Supporting LAF

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 26 May 2012 19:00:23 PDT

We haven't asked for money before, but now we must.

If you like to LAF with us, we would ask that you go to livingafterfaith.com and make a donation. Due to a sudden increase in subscribers, our bandwidth cost is now our second largest expense next to rent. What was a few dollars a month, is now hundreds of dollars, and with our medical expenses, we're in the hole.

We are working to find other hosting solutions, but for now, we need help.

If you can't help, we certainly understand. If you can, we appreciate it more than you realize.

Thanks,

Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons

Hasidic No More - Episode 62

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 18 May 2012 17:33:12 PDT

Ari Mandel tells of his escape from one of the strictest Jewish communities in America.

http://www.scribd.com/rlitzlon/d/93192819-Stadium-Seating-for-Internet-Morals-WSJ-com
https://www.facebook.com/events/320642868009045/328043400602325/?notif_t=plan_mall_activity

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/nyregion/ultra-orthodox-jews-shun-their-own-for-reporting-child-sexual-abuse.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all
http://heathenhassid.blogspot.com/2011/07/it-gets-besser.html

Shelley Segal Sings - Episode 61

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 06 May 2012 10:19:18 PDT

We met Shelley Segal in Washington, D. C. at the American Atheist Convention, and learned what a wonderful person she is, besides her great singing and song writing. In this episode, we meet Shelley, the former Jew, and find out where those passionate lyrics come from.

You'll also get to hear 3 of Shelley's songs on this episode. We've encoded it in crazy high quality, so it may take a few moments longer to download, the the sound in your ears will be worth it.

http://www.shelleysegal.com/

http://www.amazon.com/An-Atheist-Album/dp/B0067XULQW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336323752&sr=8-1

http://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/shelley-segal/id447804453

https://twitter.com/#!/ShelleySegal

https://www.facebook.com/shelley.segal.music

Mormon Exodus - Episode 60

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 23:04:54 PDT

Libbie Grant joins us to interview Mark Palmer, President of the Humanists of Florida Association. Mark is a former Mormon, as is Libbie.

**Update** Libbie's Mormon loss-of-faith thriller, Baptism For The Dead, is now available if you'd like to read it! This link will get you the book in any format you want. It's also available directly from Amazon. https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/240430

http://xpalmer.podbean.com/2012/04/08/0014-human-tales-mormon-mythology-morality-and-mitt-romney/

http://www.exmormon.org/

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/

https://twitter.com/#!/Atheist_Esq

http://www.floridahumanist.org/

The Therapist Project - Darrel Ray Episode 59

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 12:22:45 PDT

Our good friend Dr. Darrel Ray joins us to introduce a new project. The Therapist Project.

The Therapist Project

We Connect with Ask An Atheist - Episode 58

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:01:43 PDT

The Ask an Atheist crew joins us for an interview with Teresa Macbain and Jerry DeWitt.

The Clergy Project
Recovering From Religion
Ask An Atheist

The Afterparty with Greydon Square - Episode 57

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:29:21 PDT

We went to the Reason Rally Afterparty sponsored by the Black Atheists. It was an amazing evening. The headliner was Greydon Square. We bring you an interview, and some of his music.

Greydon on Reverbnation
Greydon at Bandcamp

Atheist Preachers? Yes! Episode 56

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:34:17 PDT

Deanna says you'll need a tissue before this one is over.

At the American Atheist Convention, Rich sat on a panel of former preachers who answered questions. But it's what happened AFTER the panel that is world changing.

Lynn, The Agnostic Pastor
The Clergy Project
American Atheists

Jerry Dewitt Challenges the American Atheists Convention - Episode 55

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:46:43 PDT

Jerry Dewitt brought the house down at the American Atheists Convention.

Richard Dawkins AA Convention - Episode 54

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:09:42 PDT

Richard Dawkins addresses the American Atheist Convention.

More Reason Rally Deets! - Episode 53

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:24:48 PDT

Our plans as we prepare to depart.

Lost Childhood, Found Hope

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 05 Jun 2012 03:47:05 PDT

The following is written by a woman who was raised in the church I formerly pastored. She was 3-years-old when I joined the church, and would have been around 13 when I became senior pastor.

Her words here are true. I know, because I was there. --Rich

“Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6

"Because I bound my own feet, I could manipulate them more gently until the bones were broken. Young bones are soft, and break more easily,"
Wang Yifen- China

In fuedal China, the old stories still hang around of women who had their feet bound and broken horribly and disfigured for life for the chance to marry into wealth. Wang Yifen was so very indoctrinated into this belief that she broke her OWN feet after the death of her mother. The act was outlawed in 1921, but villagers continued to do this and to hide it from the government. This symbol of status now is a symbol of female subjugation. The idea that this was the only way...the only way to be married into a rich home was so very strong that this child broke her own feet. “Some scholars say footbinding deepened female subjugation by making women more dependent on their men folk, restricting their movements and enforcing their chastity, since women with bound feet were physically incapable of venturing far from their homes.” http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8966942 I guess you must be asking...seriously? Is this woman going to compare being raised in religion to having your feet broken and deformed for life? And yes...it is a bit over the top. But in many ways I am still affected in ways that are every bit as strong as Wang Yifen with her tiny silk covered feet.

My childhood was a remnant of western civilization that the rest of the world has long since tossed away. I feel much more like a child from the 1890's than the 1990's. There was no going to the movie theatres, no pants wearing, no makeup, no popular music, no high school dances. In fact, there was no public school for me for years. I was taught at home by my mother. Did I have a problem with this? No, I didnt. I was the obedient little soldier. The girl who would break her own feet for tradition. In fact, the hardest thing is to keep from breaking them now. I grew up. I saw the world. And I had no tools, not any, to deal with it. Hobbling around with all those inner bindings still affecting every moment of my day.

Now, let me make this clear. I do not in any way condemn or feel hatred or anger at my parents. Last time I checked, nobody gets a handbook for raising kids. Everyone is taking a wild stab at it. And as far as parenting goes...they did the best they could. They worked hard. They stayed together. They loved us. I know that.

But the church, it was the binding tie that they used to keep our lives in line. And it was destructive to my inner self. So destructive that I feel that in some ways I am crippled. Let me explain...

We were not to be unequally yoked to sinners. Which means really basically. Dont make friends with sinners. You can know them..and you can proselytize them...but in the end..you can't be friends. And it is your responsibility to keep a distance. When I was born into the church I was born into a premade package of “friends”. These people were to be my only social contact...my only interaction with the world. They were default. Much like family. I had no choice in being their friend and I had no chance of opting out. There were other children in the church...when I was young. But something awful happened when I was a kid and the church divided and chose Rich to be my pastor...and all the children went away. My peer group was dwindled down to just my brother and whatever passing grandchildren of members came along. I was homeschooled to keep me away from the “worldly” kids. So I was given no tools in those developmental years to know how to make friends. You know...start to finish friends. Where you introduce yourself and get to know people and decide you wanna hang out. I had no idea how to go about this. In highschool when I finally was put into the world...I spent my lunchtime in the library reading. The other humans my age were terrifying and they were unapproachable by the weird girl who wears skirts. I found their interests in games and in social drama to be childish. They seemed like a whole lot of irresponsible childish morons to me. And besides, I had never walked up and talked to a stranger on my own before. How does one do that really? I became close with some of my teachers though. I found their motives to be much more understandable. They were authority figures...something that I was VERY familiar with. Their agenda was instruction and I understood that too. I went to the mall shopping with one of my teachers one weekend. I attended one of my teachers weddings. I never attended a pep rally. I never went to a friends home. Now I am not interested in wallowing any more in poor me...so lets move on. ROFLOL

My parents were trying so hard to be examples, that they forgot to be examples of how to be a real human and not a plastic fake weirdly perfect person. Emotional intimacy involves a certain level of honesty. And nothing is more dishonest than a devout christian. What goes on in my mothers head? I have no idea. I dont know if she is sometimes angry or sad or frustrated. Because she always has this cheerful christian attitude of “gods will” plastered on her face. I never once saw my parents fight. Which is wonderful...but dishonest. So there is this distance in my childhood from my parents. An emotional distance where I am trapped on the other side of the looking glass. And I am getting the same view that all the other church members get of who they are. My mother never talked to me about sex. Why not? Because we weren’t nearly close enough to have such a personal conversation. I have always been an acquaintance of my parents. Never let inside the gates of their real self. There was no room for my own mistakes in this little picture. If I fucked up...no WAY would I go to my perfect parents and tell them I messed up. Instead, I took every fear and mistake and tucked them under the rug just like they did. My father and mother were never the type to hug or kiss or touch us at all unless of course...they were at church. Church for them...was the only place where they could actually show real emotion. They cried there...they laughed there...they hugged me there. They told me they loved me. But only in those walls. They would allow the charismatic emotional drama of a pentecostal church service to open their hearts a bit and to let me in. So of course I loved it. Who wouldn't? If there was a place in the world where your parents can cry and hold you close you would love it too. That never happened at home. Ever. My parents were awkward at home..uncomfortable with emotional scenes. They tended to point to stoic graceful emotionless people as my examples of perfection. I was a tempest in a teapot. And no tools to share myself emotionally with anyone.

I went to bible college. It was no change from my childhood. Still the same sheltered environment. Still the prepackaged friends. Still the church being the only place you ever allow yourself to be human. They searched our rooms every Tuesday for worldly contraband. Looking for hidden TV sets and porn stashes. But I was getting phone calls from home that were distressing. Insane stories. The wonderful paragons of my childhood acting like children. When I asked my Theology teacher about this...his attitude was that of...”they are just sheep and you are above all of that now” But of course we weren't. A black student and a white student were found holding hands in the mall. The black student was sent home. The white student allowed to stay. Prejudice is alive and kicking...even thriving in the church. And it was made more than obvious that I wasn't welcome in the Theology department. Women aren't supposed to preach. Well unless they are married of course. Having a husband to guide them is the only way a woman could ever be a minister of the lord. I was intelligent. I was studious. There was a class on leadership that I wasn't allowed to attend. Instead I was sent to a “ministers wives” class. Where one studied how to plan a banquet and how to start up a sunday school in your husbands church. It was ludicrous. Women truly are second class citizens in the fanatic Pentecostal home. Unless of course you marry well. Then you get to be the passive aggressive schemer who gets her way through manipulating the man in her life.

I was married for a little while. He was a pentecostal man who always felt he wasn't good enough to be included in that exclusive crowd. He was new. He was so eager to be one of the chosen that he would have done anything in the world to be one. He saw the little cliques that formed inside the congregation and wanted to do anything to be let into the ministry. Including marrying a third generation pentecostal girl. Because of course...that is the key to getting in for real! When you have the wife to prove it. And she is the cookie cutter devout and pure and unsullied example of pentecostal ambitions. The problem was, he wanted me on the pedestal that he had the pastors wife and their daughters on. And when you live with somebody for real...they turn out to be real people. He didn't really want to be married to me. He wanted to be married to an idea. It lasted four years. They were bad and good. Mostly bad. I had done everything I was told to do. I had walked the line...married as I should. I was making my family proud. And my husband didn't love me. I was so wanting to finally share emotionally with somebody. Open up. Be myself. And this person didn't want that. He wanted the stoic graceful emotionless example of perfection. It is exhausting to be that person. He didn't have sex with me. One doesn't do such things with a holy person after all. I left him after four years. And then. I was adult. Alone. Independent. Terrified. And wondering WHO THE HELL AM I?

I had NO self identity. Other than I loved to read. Not a freaking clue. Did I want a hobby? Was I a promiscuous person? Was I gonna go wild and start dressing like a slut? Lol. SO I took it slow. I got online.

Now the internet...is fucking awesome. I can make friends there without the scary part of actually having to be in the same room. I can be honest there...nobody is gonna witness me being not perfect. And a nerd like me...gets information by the BUCKETFUL. The internet got me involved with the world. And I had to go out and see it. I can say honestly that I was the most happy in my life when I moved to Beijing. The farthest from my birthplace I could find. Making friends online has shown me that I am actually gregarious, witty, and kind. Something that I never learned about myself growing up. I didn't have anyone to compare myself with. I was always told that I was an evil sinner on the brink of being unsaved. How could I know the good traits about myself? I lived in Beijing for a year..and then in Hartlepool England for a year. World travel puts into perspective how very little of the world gives a shit about pentecostal doctrine. It becomes not this scary looming shadow over your life when you are far away...more like..some distant dreamy memory. I keep having to return though. Seems like every time I am about to get on my feet...something happens to send me back home. I am here now...in a neighboring town...just half an hour away. The closeness of my family causes anxiety. I sometimes cant sleep very well at night. I want to be away so badly. I am saving money now...working hard to set aside enough money to move. I would love it to be Europe...but someplace on the east or west coast would be nice.

I changed my name. I did it because I needed to. I am not that little soldier anymore. Nothing about me is the same as it was growing up. So the old name it doesn't even make me turn my head anymore. Hearing that old name can sometimes be like somebody walking across my grave. Reminding me of how tightly closed I was as a child. Head buried in a book. Flying beneath the radar. Hoping everyone wouldn't notice me...that god wouldn't notice me.

My life now...well I love love love love my free time. When I am off work..I can do WHATEVER I fuckin want to. That was like...anathema growing up. My parents never had one moment of free time. The work for the church literally took every single night. There was no time for closeness...we were much to busy getting close to god.

Now...I play video games. I hang out online (second life FTW). I still read voraciously. It is frightening how many books I go through a year..lol. I listen to podcasts...seriously..I subscribe to like..fifteen of them at least. I don't miss waking up for sunday service not one little bit. Or dragging my tired butt to church after work. I tend to invest myself in introverted activities because I sometimes cannot manage emotional and social connections with people. It is a part of my personality as well as my raising I believe. My mother is shy and my father is egocentric..which tends to not look outward for links to humanity. I think that religion fueled both of their natures. My mother is a servant to all who ask a single thing from her. And my father is convinced that god himself whispers secrets of the universe to him. Online I am fun loving..live outloud and proud. In person I am casual and easy to be around...but not likely to spend a lot of time in crowds.

I dont date much...people here dont have much in common with me or my interests. Homophobic racists rednecks who want a stay at home mom type girlfriend really arent my type. I am polyamorus, bisexual, and kinky...so all off that added up means very few prospects in this area of the world. I am a Dan Savage fan and I dont think anyone I work with would listen to five words from a gay man. So it is kinda quiet..I have an apartment...a roomate...a cat...netflix...and my internet.

I love the control I have over my life. I didn't even know it was a commodity until I got it. Now I cant imagine losing it.

Have I departed from the childhood I was given? Yes...in just about every way you can imagine. But then again....No...the bindings wrapped around my personality..the shaping of my inner voice...the molding of my sense of self...that has been done. Very methodically and very on purpose by a religious cult. I am changed for life. But I have stopped breaking my own feet.

Reason Rally Preview - Episode 52

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 04:56:05 PDT

We give you a preview of the Reason Rally, and the American Atheists Convention in Washington, D. C. Our guests include David Silverman, Greta Christina, Nate Phelps, Sarah Morehead, and Mandisa Lateefah Thomas.

We'll have daily episodes of the best of the Reason Rally and the Convention, with lots of interviews.

Come LAF with us!

David Silverman:
http://www.reasonrally.org/
http://atheists.org/

Nate Phelps:
http://www.cficanada.ca/about/personnel_list
http://natephelps.com

Greta Christina:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta
http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/03/19/why-are-you-atheists-so-angry/

Sarah Morehead:
http://recoveringfromreligion.org/pages/SarahMorehead
http://www.stiefelfreethoughtfoundation.org/

Mandisa Thomas:
http://blacknonbelievers.wordpress.com/leadership-team/

Reason Rally Afterparty:
https://www.facebook.com/events/216565965105210/

Compassion Beats Faith - Episode 51 Robert Parham

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:20:11 PDT

Today we speak with a man whose love for his friends started a chain of events that led him away from religion, and into reason. Robert Parham has a butter-smooth southern accent, and a mellow delivery that belies the heartbreak in his story.

We noticed some audio glitches on this file. If you downloaded it and it sounds glitchy, re-download it. It's fixed now.

Thanks!

No Longer Quivering Pt. 2 - Episode 50

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:43:05 PST

We talked with Vyckie Garrison with No Longer Quivering earlier, but couldn't share everything she said. Today, we finish the conversation. The last time we talked mostly about the movement and what it was. Now, we talk about Vyckie herself, and her journey's after quivering.

No Longer Quivering Blog
Take Heart Project
No Longer Quivering Pt. 1

Rich's Appearance on The Thinking Atheist

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:39:18 PST

You can hear Rich's interview on The Thinking Atheist Podcast from the show titled "Living After Faith"*

Callers share their stories of coming out of religion, too.

*The audio autoplays, so check your volume before you click.

You'll LAF, You'll Cry, You'll Shit Your Pants - Episode 49

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:51:12 PST

Al Stefanelli joins us for an all out hoot of a show. We'll discuss his Bapticostal roots, to his days frightening off "prayer warriors" in the grocery store. Al is the Georgia State Director for American Atheists, and one of the funniest guys you'll ever meet.

Shopping with Satan
Al Stefanelli
Reason Rally
American Atheists Convention

Recovering From Religion's Jerry DeWitt - Episode 48

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:47:21 PST

Jerry DeWitt is the new executive director of Recovering From Religion, and he joins us for a wide-open discussion of the process of leaving faith and finding a way to make a life of reason work for you.

Recovering From Religion

Minor Surgery and a Time to Think

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:04:49 PST

While I admit there is nothing particularly dangerous about a surgical procedure I’m about to have, It is a chance to stop and think about things. I’m getting my gallbladder taken out. Not a big issue. There are some minor complications, but that’s stuff that concerns the surgeon, not me. I’ll be fine.

But just to be on the safe side, we decided to draw up the advanced directive. I love the one for Washington, state. Its wording is beautiful (as can be for something so dire) and empowering. It says just what I want said.

It gives me a chance to think. This is not the first time I’ve been in a potentially (albeit very little potential) life-threatening situation. It IS the first time I’ve been in such a situation as a non-believer.

As a believer (I couldn’t be lucky enough to be the kind who believed once you were saved you were always saved, I had to keep up with the sin question.) I always wondered if I was really saved. I prayed. I longed for answers. I remember going into a simple surgery, hoping against hope that I really had crossed all my ts and dotted all my Is. Otherwise, any slip of the knife, and I’d be into the flames.

This time is different. I realize things can go wrong. Sometimes horribly wrong. And if they do, I realize I’ll never know about it. My last moment will be the moment the anesthetic takes me into dreamland. I plan on facing that moment with confidence and peace. Confidence that I’ll see my lovely Deanna when surgery is over, and at peace that if not, I’ll never know.

When you think about it, dying in surgery wouldn’t be all that bad. You go to sleep and just never awaken. The light goes out, and never comes back on. Pretty simple. Painless. Peaceful.

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m not afraid. Not that I’m some kind crazyman who fears nothing, but that these circumstances are very good. I’ll get better. Or I’ll leave this world quietly and peacefully.

When I look back, it’s all to easy too see that religion didn’t bring peace to my life. It only brought turmoil and fear. The true religion of peace, is no religion at all.

--Rich Lyons

Tell Us YOUR Love Story - Episode 47

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 29 Jan 2012 11:09:45 PST

We're doing a special Valentine's Day episode and we want YOU to share your love story with us. This episode tells HOW.

50 Reasons and 50 Things - Episode 46

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:24:19 PST

Guy P. Harrison is an author, world traveler, and atheist freethinker. He joins us for a discussion of "50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God," and "50 Popular Beliefs That People Think Are True." It's an hour of atheism and skepticism from a the worldview of a person who has had these conversations with thousands of people across the globe.

Guy P. Harrison on Amazon
Guy P. Harrison

Rich's Response to Pascal's Wager

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:43:22 PST

I found this on my facebook Timeline, posted a couple years ago in response to someone who basically blasted by my wall and shat Pascal's Wager on it, then buzzed away.

I used to feel that way about Santa Claus. Believing, regardless of the evidence, or lack thereof. But as Christmas after Christmas passed without a visit form the Jolly One, I grew tired of seeing myself as evil. I realized he wasn't dissing me because I was bad, he simply does not exist.

I became immune to his judgment.

The idea of god is no different. For my entire life I believed. For 20 years I was a peddler of his lies. Then, I realized, he too, is a myth. He simply does not exist.

I would love nothing better than to die and find I am wrong. Because I would confront god with the evidence of the suffering he created, the childish acts he's done... yeah, he'd toss me into hell... if he could do that before I dove in headfirst just to make sure I didn't have to spend eternity with such a pompous ass.

I would rather live my life with intellectual honesty. I believe god does not exist. The wars and murders religion has caused are a blight against humanity. Realizing there is no one in the sky to make it right, it is incumbent upon US to make it right.

We can't "atone" for the deaths and suffering that religion has caused. The only thing we can do now is work to stop them from happening, and try to prevent them in the future.

I can no longer believe that god is the author of genocide, and thus I can no longer shun the responsibility for preventing it form happening in the future. I can no longer believe that AIDS is the judgment of god, so I can no longer shirk the responsibility of facing this disease. I can no longer blame the evils of humanity on the goodness of god.

Il believe differently now than I once did. I believe that we CAN stop the needless slaughter of entire races. I believe that we CAN cure AIDS, I believe that we are here for a short time.. and we must make all we can of each moment.

We are both believers.

I believe.

I believe there is no god.

Sex and God - Episode 45

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 12:34:35 PST

A new book will be out soon that will change the way you look at sex and your own sexuality. It's called "Sex and God" and in this episode we talk with author Dr. Darrel Ray about some of the most interesting parts of the book.

Reason Rally
American Atheists Convention
Recovering from Religion
"Sex and God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality" on Amazon.com
Dr Darrel Ray's Skepticon talk
Pastafarian Sex Prayer
Take Heart Project

No Longer Quivering Part 1 - Episode 44

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:42:25 PST

After having 7 children as part of the Quiver Full movement, Vyckie Garrison not only leaves the movement, she leaves Christianity altogether and becomes an atheist. In part one she explains how deeply she was ingrained in Christianity and how she became free.

No Longer Quivering

Take Heart Project

Tea Party Family Values

Letter to Uncle Ron

PTSD - Anxiety and the New Studio - Episode 43

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 13:43:52 PST

The new studio is up and running, and so are we. We talk about flashbacks, lack of sexy-time, and getting back on the road to recovery.

Are you getting the feeds?

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:22:55 PST

We are getting conflicting data from Feedburner, Blogger and our hosting site that means some people may not be getting our feed. We think iTunes is okay, but RSS sources may not be working. Please check the latest episodes here on the site and let us know if you are or are not getting the latest. This will help us fix it if something is wrong, so everyone is getting the feed.

As always, if you did not get a feed, you can download here or listen here.

Movie Party at the Lyons' Den - Episode 42

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:23:29 PST

We invited some of our friends over for a movie. We watched "The Ledge" and this is the reaction from the group. Overall - we LOVED it.

The Ledge

Episode with Matthew Chapman

Recovering Religionists

Looking Forward and Back - Episode 41

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:52:03 PST

Our second annual Thanksgiving episode with a twist. We are thankful for good wine, a new studio, and the BAN-HAMMER!

Live with Seattle Atheists - Episode 40

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:44:34 PST

Rich and Deanna speak LIVE to Seattle Atheists.

Grief Beyond Belief - Episode 39

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 13:04:27 PDT

Rebecca Hensler with Grief Beyond Belief discusses the process of recovery after the loss of a loved one, without relying on myths of god or gods.

Email Rebecca at griefbeyondbelief@gmail.com

on Facebook

Religious plea from former co-worker

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:42:13 PDT

It isn't rare that I get messages like the following.

Always from someone who knows better than I do how I should live my life. I'd like your comments on how to reply to stuff like this, sent from a former co-worker.

A little background, I was never close to this guy, never liked him, and he had nothing to do with me. On one occasion, when we had a particularly stressful situation, I had to call in someone to replace him and relieve him of his duties, because he couldn't handle the responsibility at the time.

So now, a couple years later, he writes....

Rich,

I have gotten copied on a number of facebook postings submitted by you and Deanna. After reading the last few of them and being somewhat taken aback by some of the content, I feel led in my spirit to write you.

With respect to your choice to believe the way you want, I must say that I am concerned for you. We talked one night at KOMO about your traumatic experience with your ex-wife and the church you pastored in the South. At that time as I recalled, you expressed anger and bitterness at what was done to you.

It's understandable you would feel that way. However, that wasn't God's doing. And deep down inside I believe you realize that.

I'm sad that both you and your wife embrace atheism. I'm doubly sad for you because you have been exposed to the word of God and you have no excuse.

Again, what you choose to believe is your business. However as a friend and someone who cares, I must tell you that you have taken the bait of satan. He'll destroy you if you let him. Turn back to the Lord. He is real and He loves you.

I'll pray for you. I value you as a friend.

Sincerely,

former nor particularly close co-worker.

So how would you handle this crap?

-----------
Update: I realized that we never added our direct message replies to this person. We both went a little harsh on him, but I think sometimes someone needs to be told how rude they are being because they will never know it any other way.
I copied the former co-worker the link to this post so he could see the replies. He basically went all pascal's wager.... here was my final reply:

"It's a shame you can't spend five minutes to read through the entire blog. It shows just how much you care about this, and to quote a famous xtian saying, "No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care."

If you were open to discussion, I'd welcome that. But since you are only interested in making an arrogant statement then acting all butt-hurt when no one likes your views, I think we can both see what your lame attempt is made of.

Don't contact me anymore. I'm happy to leave you in your ignorance.

to finish with YOUR line... If he is real... I'll see your arrogant and apathetic ass in hell.

Thanks,

Rich"

and then this addition from Deanna Joy:

"Just add a bit to what Rich said:

I am truly insulted by your inability to contact ME about the things you learned from your "friendship" with me. Am I not your intellectual equal? Am I the insolent property of my husband that needs to be chastised through him?

I can answer those two questions easily. No, I am absolutely not your intellectual equal. Your refusal to engage shows you haven't thought for a moment or read a single word of the things I have said or shared. While your religion tells you I am below and behind you, reality shows you are not anywhere near on my level.

And yes, in your eyes I am, or you would have sent me a message directly about the things you are concerned with. And that's all I need to know about how you feel about women."

Janet Heimlich - Religious Child Maltreatment - Episode 38

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:06:32 PDT

Journalist Janet Heimlich's chilling book "Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light On Religious Child Maltreatment," does exactly what its title says. In the process, you may discover you are not the horrific human your childhood led you to believe. Once you realize that, you can attack the issues and voices that still abuse you daily in your life as an adult.

Janet's book is certainly one you will want to read. Her website has a very extensive list of resources and help for survivors of religious-based child abuse.

Breaking Their Will

On Amazon

Valerie Tarico on Amazon

Valerie Tarico's home

Moral Politics - Episode 37

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:37:19 PDT

Rich was interviewed on February 13, 2009 on a cable access program in Seattle about "Cult Recruiting." Here, we replay that program, hosted by Valerie Tarico, produced by Bill Alford.

Valerie Tarico on Youtube

Valerie Tarico on Amazon

Mixed Marriages - Episode 36

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:34:02 PDT

Tyson and Bonnie share their story of Tyson's becoming an atheist and how their relationship was able to adapt.

Bonnie and Tyson met when Tyson was the leader of a Christian youth group at Bonnie's church. But, as Tyson began to examine his beliefs, and look at facts, he began to change. He left the group, left the church, and rejected the idea of God altogether.

Today, they are happily married and LAFing with us!

The Skeptic Hour - Episode 35

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:15:28 PDT

We join Thomas and Landon with the Skeptic Hour, an Internet radio show that's done live on Sunday evenings. The topic is "Building Atheist Community."

The Skeptic Hour

Starbucks, Gay Rights and a few Opinions - Episode 34

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:24:21 PDT

Listener Amanda asks us a question about our thoughts on gay rights, and Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz takes a stand for gay rights around the world.

This post on Friendly Atheist explains the situation and has the pastor's speech.

EDIT: The pastor's speech video was made private. Here's a link that still works.

Here's Deanna Joy's video that she posted on the Starbucks Facebook page:

Mr. Deity, Brian Dalton LAFs With Us

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 09:10:33 PDT

If you haven't seen Mr. Deity's Youtube channel, you are in for an atheistic treat! In this episode Brian Dalton tells us how he came out of Mormonism, and how he created the creator himself, Mr. Deity. This is a fun episode that is loaded with good thinking, and good conversation about the questions you weren't allowed to even think about before you left religion.

Mr. Deity on Youtube

Rich's Favorite Mr. Deity Episode

Deanna's Favorite Mr. Deity Episode

PTSD Help in an App

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 02:08:04 PDT

I heard about this in the news recently. It's a free app that could provide valuable information and guidance to people who may be affected by PTSD. Available for iPhones and Android smartphones.

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/pages/PTSDcoach.asp

Greater Sapien: Jerry Williams -- Episode 32

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 25 Jul 2011 01:04:28 PDT

Jerry Williams is a former Baptist, Black Muslim, and Jehovah's Witness. He hosts a popular Youtube channel where he debunks bad thinking.

http://www.facebook.com/GreaterSapien
http://www.youtube.com/user/GreaterSapien
http://twitter.com/#!/greatersapien

The Ledge: Matthew Chapman - Episode 31

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 05 Jul 2011 15:03:42 PDT

The Ledge is a movie that could be the Brokeback Mountain for atheists. In this interview with the writer and producer of the movie, you will see that it's actually much more than that. Matthew Chapman is the great-great-grandson of Charles Darwin, and tells us why he produced this movie and how he hopes it will bring the Atheist/Theist conversation to the forefront.

The Ledge at Sundance

The Ledge website

Matthew Chapman

Happy July 4 with David Silverman - Episode 30

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 10:56:28 PDT

David Silverman, President of American Atheists joins us for a special salute to July 4th.

Help a fellow LAFer with some needed advice

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 09:05:31 PDT

Hey there everyone at Living After Faith!

My name is ____. I am 17 years old.

Something happened just recently in my family that I really want to share with you as well as other atheist communities. I could really use some advice- this problem has been present for as long as I've come out as an atheist and seems to be deteriorating my family the longer I remain an atheist. I desperately need some feedback because, at this point, I don't know what else I can do.

Last night I was watching television, and completely unannounced to me, the entire youth group of the church I used to attend came to my house- my little brother being the driving force. Needless to say, I was extremely nervous, but I knew what they were here for and decided to just push through it. Of course, it was about an hour of preaching directly to me under the watch of my previous Christian peers, Christian friends, and Christian family. I'm not going to try to be noble and say I fared well- I don't think I've ever been shaken up so badly. I cannot ever accurately portray the guilt I felt when my brother, unable to speak and overcome with tears, confesses to me how much he loves me and looks up to me followed by how my entire family and the church thinks my life has become "dead" for not having Christianity the driving force of my existence.

What I find interesting is that I've just recently been able to cope with numerous anxiety problems I've been having due to leaving religion. Although I wouldn't say it is post-religion PTSD, (although I've learned a lot from you both about the problem and I do seem to exhibit the majority of symptoms) I've always known I have not necessarily been as stable since I've had to deal with these issues. Obviously, I've never been able to meet with a physician due to the nature of the problem, and my family's dismissal. It is, of course, a "non-existent" problem that can only be cured by their religion. This past year, I've finally been able to gain control of my anxiety. And although episodes can still be triggered by church services or late-night surprise preaching, I finally came to a point where I felt like I could be a normal kid again. Christianity is what made me "dead."

I was really shaken and scared last night but I understood their good intentions. I simply responded after the hour "Thank for guys for coming. I think it's very sweet that you're concerned about me. But I've grown up in the same upbringing as all of you, and I've made my decision." I was careful to be very polite, although there were a few choice words I would have liked to say. Regardless, there is no point in arguing with them.

Afterward, I was ranting to a good friend who is also an atheist and understands when I need to vent. He actually brought something up that I can hardly force myself to consider, but I fear it may be my only option. He suggested that I just tell my family I'm a Christian. Go along with it. Not to be neutral or even passive, but just to pretend I buy it. Maybe it'll make things easier while I'm still living here. Although saying I'm a Christian may be easy enough (if we aren't considering my flaming pride-fullness), pulling off such an act would require me to completely dive into my Christian life before I came out- events, services, friendships, worship, praying, and all. (At least while my family is looking.) Like I said earlier, the thought of this is enraging to me because I want so badly just to be myself and for that to be okay. But I'm afraid it will never be okay until I finally leave.

Of course I'd still be an atheist, but this idea has really been bothering me. I want to be proud of who I am as a non-believer, but if it is tearing my family apart, is it selfish for me to even acknowledge my beliefs? Part of me says they are selfish and playing the victims, but the other part of my is just exhausted of all this and wants to just breathe freely again. The only thing I'm truly worried about is if giving in to this idea and throwing my alter-ego into Christianity will once again trigger the anxiety issues I've worked so hard to overcome.

I understand this is a lot to process, but I really need some help.
Is it worth it to tell my family I'm an atheist if it only causes chaos? Should I just pretend I believe for their sake, and continue my life as an avid non-believer under-cover?

Please let me know what you think and feel free to have members give feedback- I want as many points of view as I can get.

Thanks so much for all you do. You make this bearable for me and I can never thank you enough,

Freedom From Westboro Baptist - Nate Phelps - Episode 29

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:25:10 PDT

Nate Phelps made a daring escape from his father, Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church on his 18th birthday. Now, he is Executive Director of Center For Inquiry in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. In this episode he shares how he made that journey, and what is ahead for Nate Phelps.

Center For Inquiry

Nate Phelps

Westboro Vs. KKK

Morrison's Prophecy

Atheists Fuck Better - Episode 28

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 02:26:46 PDT

Dr. Darrel Ray joins us for an in-depth look at his "Sex and Secularism Survey."

In this episode we talk about sex and how religion can fuck that up. The good news, once you get out of religion, fucking gets better!

We discuss the surprising and some not-so-surprising results.

http://ipcpress.com/

Dr. Darrel Ray

Morrison's Prophecy

The Believing Brain -- Michael Shermer Episode 27

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:09:06 PDT

Michael Shermer joins us during his book tour for The Believing Brain. In this episode he shares for the first time, his "coming out" story of how a born-again Christian becomes the nation's top skeptic.

The Believing Brain

Michael Shermer

Skeptic Magazine

Scientific American

Morrison's Prophecy

Ebony Exodus - Episode 26

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 19 May 2011 15:05:46 PDT

Candace Gorham leads the Ebony Exodus project, where she interviews women of color to learn about their exodus from religion. She wanted to interview Deanna (who is not "of color" but you'll hear why Candace wanted to talk with her) for her project.

This is the raw and dirty conversation. ENJOY!

Ebony Exodus

Morrison's Prophecy

More Drama Than the Orgasm is Worth - Episode 25

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 17 May 2011 22:24:05 PDT

Candace Gorham is a former (sh)evangelist and prophetess who studied her way out of the church and out of her belief in god. She is working on a research project called "Ebony Exodus" which will detail the lives of women of color who have left religion. Her story is at times shocking, heart breaking, and filled with courage and guts. She is an amazing woman, very strong, super compassionate, and wicked smart.

We'll follow this podcast with another tomorrow featuring Candace interviewing Deanna for the Ebony Exodus project. You will hear Deanna's story of her life in religion, how she lived on the streets as a young teen, and how she overcame the odds to become the awesome woman she is today.

Ebony Exodus

And as always, music for this episode is RoseCross by Morrison's Prophecy.

Rapture Relief -- Coming Soon!

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 18 May 2012 17:31:36 PDT

This is a commercial we made for Seattle Atheists. It airs on Ask An Atheist, and shows a good, fun way to help a worthy cause.

http://rapture-relief.org/

Ask An Atheist

Music by Morrison's Prophesy

Modesty? Deanna Joy Just Says, 'NO!' -Episode 24

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 07 May 2011 05:53:21 PDT

Deanna returns with a scathing critique of an internet video blaming women for men's sins.

The Modesty Video

Morrison's Prophecy

From "Jesus Camp" to Atheist Activist - Episode 23

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:49:33 PDT

You may already know Sam Mulvey. He's a host and producer of Ask An Atheist, a TV, radio and podcast show that features live calls and intriguing topics. In this episode he tells of his journey to atheism and activism.

Ask An Atheist

Finally At Peace With Atheisim -- Episode 22

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 12:01:10 PDT

Daniel tells his story of escaping two cults before leaving faith altogether. From extreme Catholicism to moderate Pentecostalism and finally he is at peace with being a full-on atheist.

Music in this episode is Rosecross by Morrison's Prophecy.

Music Helped Heal From Religious Guilt -- Episode 21

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:19:54 PDT

Living After Faith now has theme music, compliments of Kevin Byrne. Kevin was a minister of music who left faith, and is moving up in Seattle's music scene. This episode features some of his music, and his story of escaping an abusive xtian group.

Morrison's Prophecy

Morrison's Prophecy on Facebook

She Never Wanted to be an Atheist - Episode 20

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 15 Mar 2011 06:17:49 PDT

Sara Andrews is a student in Madison, Wisconsin who was raised in an Evangelical home. She tells how she saw through Christianity and became an atheist.

Another Sex Issue Uncovered and Defeated - Episode 19

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sat, 19 Mar 2011 05:13:57 PDT

In this episode we talk with Dustin Williams, a former Seventh Day Adventist seminary student who left faith, and discovered sexual hangups during his recovery. His creative way of overcoming can be both educational and inspirational.

Dustin's Blog

X-SDA on Facebook

Dan Savage

American Atheists National Convention

Rich Debunks His Own Theology

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:33:58 PST

Rich used to believe and preach that it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in god. Now he doesn’t believe that, and obviously doesn’t preach it anymore.

I don’t remember who I stole the illustration in the sermon from, but here’s how it would go:

(Preacher Mode ON)

Imagine you have the finest Rolex watch ever made, and I run it through a super-powerful shredder that rips it into tiny pieces no larger than the head of a pin, or the eye of a needle.

Then I give you the expensive pile of metal, tightly sealed in a plastic box, with the instructions to shake the box until it becomes a watch again. But not just any watch, YOUR watch, and running at the correct time.

If you have any sense, you will tell me that is impossible.

I agree.

Now, Imagine how much more complex the human hand is than your watch. Or the eye, for that matter. And the human brain.

I find it much easier to believe shaking watch bits in a box will produce a watch than thinking the emptiness of space will spontaneously produce atoms and molecules from nothing, then those will rush together to make a hand, eye, brain -- whole humans, not just running with the clock set, but LIVING.

But go a step further, not just living, but living in a planet that yields to the efforts of that hand, and gives man his desires -- a planet that can be understood by that brain, so man can make things that bring him comfort and pleasure. But not just that, a planet that is not only pleasing, but gorgeous to that miraculous eye.

(Insert half an hour of random non-sense “Tide goes in, tide goes out,” statements, catch the praise singer’s eye, start altar call)

(Preacher Mode OFF)

There are people who still feed me my own lines and ask HOW can I not still believe that.

If all you do is listen to my argument, it sounds good (to believers who don’t believe god allows critical thought). But the second you start to think about it, it falls apart.

Here are some reasons why.

First, it assumes the end product before the process begins. The universe does not operate with the concept that man is the completion of it’s process, and earth is the height of its potential. The universe just is. When the big bang happened, it didn’t happen with goals and specifics in mind. There was no mind. There are no goals or specifics. It just is. What we are is a product of where we are and that is a product of trillions and trillions of random events over untold eons of time.

Next, to compare shaking a box filled with a limited amount of stuff to the practically infinite energy and stuff in the universe is a foolish analogy.

There is nothing going on inside that box that could produce a watch. There is no heat to melt the metals, no chemical processes to combine stuff, nothing that can possibly cause a watch to pop out.

With the universe, there is perhaps unlimited space, time and chemical process of all types happening. And while these processes seem best at creating black holes and piles of gunk, those piles of gunk find some order and become other stuff, like stars and planets.

I recently had a christian wrongly quote “facts” about how a single change of unmeasurable proportions in the earth’s position to the sun, the angle, speed or rotation would render the planet unsuitable for any life at all. First, that isn’t even true. Scientists have discovered that there is a pretty wide range of things you could change about the earth, and she would still be suitable for life.

But even if it were true, all that would mean is that earth was not a planet with life on it. It wouldn’t eliminate the possibility of other planets hitting that magic “life-spot” in relation to their stars. When you put the argument to the entire scale of the universe, it loses it’s punch.

Finally, the box illustration assumes everything that is in the box is all that is needed to make a watch. That’s not true.

There are tons of rock that were mined to get at that metal, and that’s not in the box. There are centuries of human knowledge and study that went into making the watch, and they aren’t in the box either.

There’s a watch factory that is strangely missing from the box. Basically, while there is a shredded watch in the box, there isn’t anything in the box that can make a watch.

The universe is just the opposite. There’s plenty of stuff to make worlds and stars and moons and hands and eyes and brains. Not only are the raw elements and atoms and molecules there, but the processes needed for them to come together are all there as well.

I realize my writing here is not anything close to scientific. I’m not trying to write science.

One thing I’ve realized is that in our religious lives, we signed on to arguments like the one I cite above, and sometimes we hear them again, and they call to our sense of familiar. We might catch ourselves thinking for just a moment, “Maybe the eye IS too complex!” Then we banish the thought as silly.

Just like we were taught in church to do with thoughts that go contrary to our current way of believing.

This article really isn’t about creation versus cosmology, or creation versus evolution. It’s about having the courage to look at the arguments that once comforted your christian heart, and googling and reading your heart out to find true answers that may not be as comforting at the moment, but will take you miles, even light years ahead in your ability to skeptically understand the world around you.

Here’s a challenge. Think about the “arguments” for your previous faith. Post them here, with your argument why they are bogus, and let’s discuss.

Extra credit: Rip my “watch in a box” argument up!

Let’s have fun!

Rich

The Atheist's Way - Dr. Eric Maisel Episode 18

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 18 Mar 2011 05:34:29 PDT

The book "The Atheist's Way; Living Well Without Gods" is all about living a life with meaning. If you've struggled with the apparent meaningless of life without God, this podcast is a great place to start to get on the road to creating meaning.

Get the book at Amazon.com

or at Barnes And Nobel

Would you like longer episodes?

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 18 Feb 2011 18:41:27 PST

How would you feel about longer podcasts? We have several really good interviews in the recorder that NEED to be kept together to keep the relevance of the stories intact. I can break them up, but I don't feel like that does justice to the teller or the listener.

I'm finding as I speak with more people, and get them to tell their stories, that it takes more time than our traditional 20 minutes. I really want to bring the stories together as a solid unit rather than breaking them up.

They would be about an hour, or actually a little under. Please comment and let me know.

Hector Avalos - Episode 17

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:33:37 PST

Hector Avalos is Professor of Religious Studies at Iowa State University. He was a child evangelist at the age of 9, and discovered his religion was wrong. Hear him tell his story of how he left religion, and became a world renowned atheist scholar and author.

Hector Avalos will be speaking at the American Atheists Convention April 21-24 in Des Moines, Iowa.

His books are available at Amazon.

David Silverman on Coming Out - Episode 16

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 21:53:06 PST

We talk to David Silverman, President of American Atheists, about coming out as an atheist and the benefits of meeting other people who feel the same way you do.

We also talk about the upcoming American Atheists National Convention, this April in Des Moines Iowa. We're going, are you?

LAF Line Goes LIVE - Episode 15

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:55:31 PST

Living After Faith is now more interactive.

This episode is quite short, but explains how YOU can literally come LAF with us.

We Have Voicemail Now!

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:06:33 PST

(252) 32-LYONS

(252) 325-9667

You can use the widget on the left column of this blog, and it will call you to connect to the voicemail with the option to leave your number private, or you can use your phone to directly dial the number.

Leave us a message with your deconversion story in less than 3 minutes and we may use use it on a future episode, or you can just leave feedback of any kind. Now you can literally LAF with us!

Sex and Religion Survey - Episode 14

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:53:40 PST

Dr. Darrel Ray explains his Sex and Religion survey while a naked Deanna Joy asks him questions. She did that just to keep it interesting!

Take the survey here before January 30th, and pass it on to all your friends:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PGHSWMW

Let's get crunchy with some music

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:56:51 PST

We need some "crunchy" rock music ins and outs and stings and beds for the Living After Faith podcast. Must be copyright free... anyone want to help?

Innocuous Religion - Episode 13

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:05:01 PST

Is there such a thing as religion that does no harm? NO! And in this episode we tell you WHY.

Xtian warning: If you are a Christian and you don't want to be offended, this is an episode to skip. We examine how religion, even in its most innocuous forms, destroy life and the value of living.

A must listen if you are out of religion but still struggling with questions about the value of religion.

Rich was on Ask An Atheist

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:27:26 PST

Rich was a co-host on Ask An Atheist's most recent show in their new radio format! It's available via audio podcast now, or you can wait a couple of days for the video.

http://askanatheist.tv

Sex and Religion Survey

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:49:25 PDT

Our good friend Dr. Darrel Ray is gathering information for an upcoming project. It's about our two favorite subjects! If you have the time, please fill out this survey, and feel free to pass it on!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PGHSWMW

Thanks!

LAFing on KUOW Seattle

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:49:13 PDT

When Rich Lyons first moved to Seattle, he didn't talk much about his past. People who know him now have a hard time believing that for over 20 years, Rich was a preacher at a conservative Pentecostal church in East Texas. But after Rich started to object to what he saw as hatred and intolerance, he began preaching acceptance, and the church officials pushed back. He lost his job and his marriage, spiraling into a suicidal depression. Rich explains how he came out of his depression, became an outspoken atheist and found a new community in Seattle. Rich Lyons talks with KUOW's Jeremy Richards.

http://kuow.org/program.php?id=22288

Zuniverse Link has arrived

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 05:34:53 PST

If you are part of the Zuniverse, here is the link to the podcast directly in Marketplace. Just click the link and you can listen to episodes there, download them, or even subscribe.

Living After Faith Zune

Now available in the Zune Marketplace

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 04:03:46 PST

For our listeners who prefer the Zune, open your Zune application, go to Market Place, click podcast and search for Living After Faith. You can subscribe and automatically receive out podcast on your Zune.

Enjoy!

Red Neck Blue Collar Atheist - Episode 12

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 04:04:53 PST

A fun interview with Hank Fox, a fellow escaped Texan and author of the book "Red Neck Blue Collar Atheist: Simple Thoughts about Reason, God & Faith"

http://blue-collar-atheist.com/
http://hankfoxbooks.com/

6-Word Memoir

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 10:46:32 PST

Our 6-word memoir for 2010

Loving others gives life beauty, meaning.

Share with us your 6-word memoir for 2010!

No Longer Witnessing for Jehovah - Episode 11

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:48:34 PST

In this episode we talk with Chad, a life-long Jehovah's Witness who left the church and became an atheist.

I've spent more time editing this episode that I imagined, because I had to balance my friendshp with Chad and my desire to protect him from saying too much, and my respect for my listeners, which requires me to tell his story.

I hope you are as moved by his story as I am.

Now, let's LAF with Chad!

We are now Officially Official!

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:25:36 PDT

Living after faith is now the official podcast of Recovering Religionists, a group founded by Dr. Darrel Ray, author of "The God Virus." We will be partnering with Darrel to bring more resources and hope to people leaving the faith.

http://thegodvirus.net
http://recoveringreligionists.com

Interviewed by KUOW

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:41:49 PDT

Watch this space for Rich's interview with Jeremy Richards (who is fantastic, by the way) in about two weeks. With any luck, it'll help more people find out they're not alone. There are lots of us out here in the wide world LAFing!

The God Virus - Episode 10 with Dr. Darrel Ray

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:24:10 PDT

Dr. Darrel Ray joins us on Living After Faith to help us better understand how we are infected with the "God Virus." Like any virus, it's important to remember that there is no guilt for catching it. The focus is to recover from it.

http://thegodvirus.net/

http://www.recoveringreligionists.com/

PTSD Flashback (By Request) - Episode 9

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:23:41 PDT

We've had lots of requests and questions about PTSD, so this episode focuses more closely on what it is and how to recognize it.

We also have resources for you:

About.com PTSD symptoms list (a little more extensive than the Mayo Clinic's list):
http://ptsd.about.com/od/symptomsanddiagnosis/a/PTSDsymptoms.htm

Atheist Experience:
http://www.atheist-experience.com/ (show info)
http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/ (blog)

Dr. Darrell Ray:
http://www.recoveringreligionists.com/About_RR.html
http://thegodvirus.net/

On the Atheist Experience!

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:41:32 PDT

This last Sunday, I was on The Atheist Experience! It was Episode #686: Religion and Sex with Dr. Darrel Ray, author of The God Virus. I got into contact with Darrel because of the show, and we'll be working on some projects together in the near future. Watch this space for exciting news soon!

You can watch it here: http://blip.tv/file/4474614 or listen to the podcast, available through iTunes.

Come LAF with us Thursday night!

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 05:24:16 PST

Some good friends of ours host the Ask an Atheist show here in the Seattle area. Recent news is that because of a funding cut to the public access facilities they use, they will be moving the show to a local radio station. Ask an Atheist needs to get some funds together to start up the show so they are hosting a benefit at the Tacoma Comedy Club this Thursday night (Dec 9th) at 8pm and we will be there. If you're in the area, please come down and LAF with us! We would love to see and meet you. If you're not in the area, and would like to help out, you can make a donation using the Paypal button on their site, below.

Details here: http://askanatheist.tv/2010/11/24/future-defined-ask-an-atheist-on-klay-1180-am/

Opening the Email Bag - Episode 8

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:31:50 PST

Hate mail and LAF letters.

Our responses to the things that YOU commented on.

Atheists Giving Thanks - Episode 7

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:30:43 PST

What do atheists have to be thankful for? Listen and find out. This one is light-hearted, unedited and totally off the cuff fun. No serious stuff, but fun and gives you a look at who we are. Enjoy!

Links to things we talked about:
Daniel Dennet's article "Thank Goodness"
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dennett06/dennett06_index.html

The big power outage at our radio station last year (with audio!):
http://istillloveradio.blogspot.com/2009/07/seattles-komo-radio-goes-old-school.html

Rat City Roller Girls:
http://ratcityrollergirls.com/bouts-and-events/2011-event-schedule/

I didn't fall from grace...

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:37:51 PST

Early when I was leaving the faith, while the faithful were still leaving me, I wrote this as an explanation and apology for my actions.

I've come a long way since that time, but it has a burn to it that I don't feel anymore. I'm glad it isn't burning anymore.

From the past....

I didn't fall from grace. I did a 10.0 triple back-flip off the high dive.

Becoming an Atheist was the most difficult and painful thing I've ever done in my life. I didn't get pissed off one day and tell god to go to hell. It was years of using a jagged pruning saw to rip away bits of my heart ... becoming the worst thing a human can be, and realizing that is me, an Atheist.

An atheist who never raped a boy (or girl for that matter) like priests routinely do.

An Atheist who's truly not arrogant, who realizes he doesn't know anything about anything, so unlike his former christian self, he doesn't have the message to save the world.

An Atheist who won't say with a beyond-haughty smirk that he has a direct line (I was a prophet, you know, told people things I couldn't know, healed cancers, yeah, that WAS me.) to some spirit that knows all and has all power and IS love itself, yet cares more about a white American's nasal irritation than he does about millions of nonbelieving Africans dying of AIDS.

An Atheist who's an awful father but still a better father than The Father. You see, I never tortured my daughter one minute. But "god is love" created a world knowing (all knowing!) he would get to torture billions of souls - his children - for EVER. So I live a few thousand miles from my daughter and we speak occasionally, so yeah, I'm a piss-poor dad and a son-of-a-bitch.

But I won't burn a single soul in hell forever.

And I promise I won't kill my only begotten daughter to help me get over the fact that someone ate an apple from my tree. But if I did brutally murder a child because someone ate my apple, how would a jury take that? Would they call me a good father? But that's what your book says your father did to his only begotten son.

No, I'm not the least bit interested in talking with religious "connected" gurus who think that father is good. That father's only excuse is that he doesn't exist.

I know this sounds bitter. I'm really not.

I've had some ugly things happen in my life, some my fault, some beyond my control, but my life is beautiful. I love life. when I turn on a fan or light, I realize someone had an idea, worked hard to invent it, got it into production and sold it to me to make life better.

I too, owe my best to make life better for others.

When buy a homeless guy a room for the night, give him a meal and laundry money, I feel good. I feel bad when I can't help.

I'm an Atheist.

But maybe I'm not such a horrible human after all. Because I'm not waiting for god to fix it, or take us out on doomsday, I'm more active in making the world a better place, in an insignificant way, certainly... but I'm just getting started.

Please don't be offended. Real friends can have differing views, and remain friends. If not, I understand. My wife, her whole family, two "soul mates" and a heavenly host of others have chosen to forget me because I dove into forbidden waters.

But the water is cool, still and peaceful.

And I can swim alone if I need to.

Friends,

Rich

Come LAF with us LIVE in Seattle!

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:05:42 PST

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111710dnmethitchens.40dba40.html

We're gonna watch this live at the Lyons' Den at 6:40am local time.

RSVP in comments and come LAF with us.

Beers and brekky and an old-fashioned Hitch-Slappin' with the Lyons!

Pushing through PTSD - Episode 6

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:21:55 PDT

These podcasts have stirred up some old symptoms. You can hear them in this podcast. I didn't want to publish this one, but Deanna says it's important. PTSD is ugly. This podcast is ugly, but you can hear PTSD first hand. And maybe you can see enough to realize you or someone you love needs help.

Here is a list of symptoms of PTSD from the Mayo Clinic.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246/DSECTION=symptoms

Questions and Answers -Episode 5

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:29:33 PDT

A few questions have been asked, here we get the answers.

Too Fucked up to Fuck - Episode 4

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:29:12 PDT

Christianity left Rich Too Fucked up to Fuck. The story of how a man experienced sexual abuse, and with the loving help of another, recovered.

If you have sexual issues stemming from religion, this is NOT an episode to miss.

Mentioned in this episode:
Dan Savage: http://www.thestranger.com/savage
and his podcast: http://podcasts.thestranger.com/savagelove/

Living After Faith Podcast - Episode 3

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:28:45 PDT

Unfaithfully Yours

Rich Lyons has told you about some of the lows he has experienced in life, now he is joined by his wonderful wife Deanna Joy Lyons to describe their wonderful life together. A life without faith.

Living After Faith Podcast - Episode 2

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:28:20 PDT

People have asked how I went from UPCI pastor, ultra-right-wing Bible-thumping young-earth christian to atheist. This episode answers that question.

WARNING: If you still consider yourself one of the faithful, this would be the one to skip, because it will ask questions that may cause your house of cards to crumble.

Living After Faith Podcast - Episode 1

rich@livingafterfaith.com (Rich and Deanna Joy Lyons) — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 01:27:53 PDT

An introduction to Living After Faith. (15 min)

Click the above title to listen to the first episode, or you can right click to save the file on your computer.

Subscribe to the podcast feed using the link to the left.