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    <title>LloydLaw LLP</title>
    
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    <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:weblog-288613</id>
    <updated>2010-01-04T16:06:59+00:00</updated>
    <subtitle>Solicitors
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    <atom10:link xmlns:atom10="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/Lloydlaw" /><feedburner:info uri="lloydlaw" /><atom10:link xmlns:atom10="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" rel="hub" href="http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com" /><entry>
        <title>Lawyers and Straight Questions</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/UBIns2a13sQ/lawyers-and-straight-questions.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2010/01/lawyers-and-straight-questions.html" thr:count="1" thr:updated="2010-01-22T11:43:44+00:00" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-6a00d83455e6aa69e20120a7a2c212970b</id>
        <published>2010-01-04T16:06:59+00:00</published>
        <updated>2010-01-04T16:06:59+00:00</updated>
        <summary>A regular attender at the courts will quickly realize that lawyers, who are themselves constitutionally incapable of answering any question with a straight Yes or No, are always demanding of laymen that they should do so. Richard du Cann -...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
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<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p><em>A regular attender at the courts will quickly realize that lawyers, who are themselves constitutionally incapable of answering any question with a straight Yes or No, are always demanding of laymen that they should do so.</em></p><p>Richard du Cann - The Art of the Advocate (1964)</p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2010/01/lawyers-and-straight-questions.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Solicitors' Code of Conduct</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/z8ljxDH6LI0/solicitors-code-of-conduct.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/11/solicitors-code-of-conduct.html" thr:count="0" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-6a00d83455e6aa69e20120a65b892e970b</id>
        <published>2009-11-06T12:07:53+00:00</published>
        <updated>2009-11-06T12:07:53+00:00</updated>
        <summary>I attended a course this week on compliance with the regulation of law firms, where I learnt, amongst other things that all firms are solicitors are now obliged to a link to the Solicitors's Code of Conduct on their websites....</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
<content type="xhtml" xml:lang="en-GB" xml:base="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/">
<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: 15px; ">I attended a course this week on compliance with the regulation of law firms, where I learnt, amongst other things that all firms are solicitors are now obliged to a link to the Solicitors's Code of Conduct on their websites. The Code of Conduct sets out in some detail the responsibilities and obligations of every solicitor in England and Wales. </p><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: 15px; ">For the record, LloydLaw LLP  is a partnership constituted under the laws of England and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. A copy of the Solicitors' Code of Conduct 2007, which sets out the rules of professional conduct which apply to solicitors, is available on the Solicitors Regulation Authority's website, <a href="http://www.sra.org.uk/" style="text-decoration: none; color: #3b6dab; " target="_blank" title="View rules of professional conduct which apply to solicitors on the Solicitors and Regulation Authority's website">http://www.sra.org.uk/</a>. All the partners of LloydLaw LLP are solicitors, qualified in England and Wales.</p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/11/solicitors-code-of-conduct.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Head and Heart</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/8-NrSIH4ARM/head-and-heart.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/11/head-and-heart.html" thr:count="0" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-6a00d83455e6aa69e20120a6a02cfd970c</id>
        <published>2009-11-02T15:28:05+00:00</published>
        <updated>2009-11-02T15:28:05+00:00</updated>
        <summary>The Guardian ran a story on its Capital Letters Consumer Rights page at the weekend about solicitors messing up in trying to recover a debt and landing a wholly innocent party - in this case a small landscaping business -...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
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<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk">The Guardian</a> ran a story on its <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/oct/31/anthony-jayes-solicitors-consumer-affairs">Capital Letters Consumer Rights</a> page at the weekend about solicitors messing up in trying to recover a debt and landing a wholly innocent party - in this case a small landscaping business - with the consequences. </p><p>As appalling and frustrating as this must have been for the landscaping company, I actually disagree with the advice that the landscaper should consider taking out a small claim for damages in negligence. Not because I want to protect the solicitors, for whom I have no sympathy, but as much because I tend to think most businesses - and all small businesses -are far better off getting on with the running of their businesses which will make them more money than they'll ever recover from a court. </p><p>I call this the "head and heart" principle. Your heart knows that you've been badly messed around and that you've got a decent claim for damages because you are wholly innocent. Plus there's a small part of you that thinks they need  to accept the consequences for their incompetence. </p><p>But your heads knows that it will take up a lot of time, and as a consequence a lot of money. It's not just the court process itself, nor even the cost of instructing your own solicitors, although you can do it on your own. The fact is that litigation of any sort is aggravating and more importantly distracting. Any thought you have about the dispute is a backward one that takes you away from what you should really be doing which is taking your business forwards.</p><p>In this case, the landscaping business had some supplies cut off but that is part of the day to day aggravation in doing business in a world that is administratively challenged.</p><p>What businesses should be doing is monitoring these potential problems on a day to day basis and working to minimise the risks of potential cowpats. That means monitoring all correspondence closely, keeping an eye on odd phone messages (eg "just checking your precise address") and making sure you are constantly in touch with any post coming into your registered office address. </p><p>The real point about this story is this sort of problem is on the increase and the best form of attack is brilliant and organised defence. If it's any consolation to that landscaper we recently got a claim for £2,780 from Teignbridge District Council in South Devon for unpaid council tax. Except that we don't even know where Teignbridge is, let alone have any property there. Of course, it was all a case of "mistaken identity" following on from the increasingly unbiquitous "trace enquiry". As I say, it's this sort of administrative incompetence that isn't going away.</p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/11/head-and-heart.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Value Based Fees</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/BYb4H03B8Es/value-based-fees.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/08/value-based-fees.html" thr:count="0" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-6a00d83455e6aa69e20120a50895d2970b</id>
        <published>2009-08-20T16:54:56+01:00</published>
        <updated>2009-08-20T16:54:56+01:00</updated>
        <summary>We don't yet offer "value based fees" on a consistent basis although it something we are considering. Value based fees reflect charging clients for what the work might actually be worth to the client, as opposed to the time it...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
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<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p>We don't yet offer "value based fees" on a consistent basis although it something we are considering. Value based fees reflect charging clients for what the work might actually be worth to the client, as opposed to the time it takes to do something, as most lawyers habitually do. </p><p>Top US consultant <a href="http://www.contrarianconsulting.com">Alan Weiss</a> has <a href="http://www.contrarianconsulting.com/value-based-fees-and-the-law/">posted his own lawyer's memo</a> offering his clients fixed charges. While Alan notes that isn't precisely "value based" it does mark a move in that direction, which as he says, is "ahead of the curve". </p><p>My own experience of trying to charge on a fixed price basis is that we, as the lawyers erring on the side of caution, tend to lose out. That isn't necessarily a bad thing especially for our clients, but it does mean that it needs fairly careful attention and to be kept constantly under review. Of course, if you were a client, you'd much rather that situation, than having the idea of the clock constantly driving costs upwards for every email read and phone call made. That said, all lawyers charges are matters of judgement, rather than simple mathematical calculations, and there should be a very strong element of "value" even in time based billing. </p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/08/value-based-fees.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Changes in the Legal Landscape</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/ZcF6xJpuYQg/2009-is-going-to-see-a-great-deal-of-change-in-the-legal-profession-its-not-going-to-be-extreme-or-drastic-but-the-economic.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/03/2009-is-going-to-see-a-great-deal-of-change-in-the-legal-profession-its-not-going-to-be-extreme-or-drastic-but-the-economic.html" thr:count="0" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-60888136</id>
        <published>2009-03-16T16:08:23+00:00</published>
        <updated>2009-03-16T16:08:23+00:00</updated>
        <summary>This year is going to see a great deal of change in the legal profession. It's not going to be extreme or drastic but the economic climate will have an impact as much on us as everyone else. Not that...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        <category scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" term="Law Business" />
        
        
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<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p>This year is going to see a great deal of change in the legal profession. It's not going to be extreme or drastic but the economic climate will have an impact as much on us as everyone else. Not that I'm all doom and gloom because to some extent, the changes being forced upon us are inevitable, but it's going to hurt. </p><p>What we've got now is a situation where there are loads of professionals sitting around with not enough work to do. Imagine you are a conveyancing solicitor in London. Do you think they are going to be busy? Almost certainly not. But if you do employment, litigation, or rather more obviously, insolvency, then you are currently manically busy and supporting the rest of the firm.</p><p>What this actually means in reality is unclear. <a href="http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/opinion">The Law Society Gazette</a> (the Law Society's official weekly publication) reported back in December 2008 that some 1,250 firms were in "financial intensive care" with their banks. There's no definition of what that actually means, but the inference is clear. Law firms are not all cash rich and some will start to go under.  </p><p>Even the President of the Law Society<a href="http://www.lawsocietygazette.co.uk/opinion"> recognises that there will be change</a>. "My instinct tells me, after the current recession, the legal landscape witll look very different. The profession must now anticipate quite how different it might look to ensure there there is a properly remunerated independent legal profession to protect the rule of law on the other side."</p><p>What all this means for clients is unclear, but  my strong sense is that it will push forward the move towards commoditisation which<a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Lawyers-Rethinking-nature-services/dp/0199541728"> Richard Susskind</a> has been talking about for a few years because even the heavyweight commercial clients will be looking to cut costs. And it will force lawyers to reinvent themselves, if they haven't done so already. Very few of my contemporaries are doing what they started out doing 20 years ago and that rate of change will accelerate. This firm will have to adapt as well, and I intend to look at ways we will be doing that in the next few weeks. </p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2009/03/2009-is-going-to-see-a-great-deal-of-change-in-the-legal-profession-its-not-going-to-be-extreme-or-drastic-but-the-economic.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>OFT Guidance for Businesses</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/9KAu_RWoKM4/oft-guidance-for-businesses.html" />
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        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-59350224</id>
        <published>2008-12-02T14:45:04+00:00</published>
        <updated>2008-12-02T14:45:04+00:00</updated>
        <summary>The Office of Fair Trading has just published a free guide on how to comply with increasingly complex competition and consumer laws. Aimed at smaller businesses, the 32 page PDF document which is relatively clear and well presented deals with...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
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<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p>The <a href="http://www.oft.gov.uk">Office of Fair Trading</a> has just published <a href="http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft911.pdf">a free guide</a> on how to comply with increasingly complex competition and consumer laws. Aimed at smaller businesses, the 32 page PDF document which is relatively clear and well presented deals with areas like online selling, offering credit and what to do if you think your business has been subjected to anti-competitive practices. </p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/12/oft-guidance-for-businesses.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Free Legal Boot Camp - a great idea from Winston  Strawn</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/vQuyAA_ROuA/free-legal-boot-camp---a-great-idea-from-winston-strawn.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/free-legal-boot-camp---a-great-idea-from-winston-strawn.html" thr:count="2" thr:updated="2009-02-01T17:45:57+00:00" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-58668522</id>
        <published>2008-11-18T14:49:13+00:00</published>
        <updated>2008-11-18T14:49:13+00:00</updated>
        <summary>Law firm marketing is a bit of an odd beast. It's one of those things that we all do, to a greater or lesser extent, but it's very hard to get right. Very impressed though with Winston &amp; Strawn's idea...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
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&lt;div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"&gt;&lt;p&gt;Law firm marketing is a bit of an odd beast. It's one of those things that we all do, to a greater or lesser extent, but it's very hard to get right. Very impressed though with &lt;a href="http://www.winston.com/index.cfm"&gt;Winston &amp;amp; Strawn's&lt;/a&gt; idea of monthly evening sessions in London aimed at digital, internet and technology businesses. &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Billed as Essential Law for Start Ups and Emerging Tech Businesses, I first saw it mentioned in the &lt;a href="http://www.ft.com"&gt;FT&lt;/a&gt;. Timely as ever, this month's event was held last night and there's a great write up from one of the attendee's &lt;a href="http://leasimpson.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/bootlaw-november-stateside-legal-stuff/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Not much help for November but if you are an internet start up then I can't see what you've got to lose by signing up for future events. They even offer free beer and pizza at the same time as their expert advice.&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;There's a &lt;a href="http://www.bootlaw.com"&gt;website&lt;/a&gt; which is a good use of a &lt;a href="http://www.meetup.com/"&gt;meetup.com&lt;/a&gt; page and the fact that Bootlaw has got it's own &lt;a href="https://twitter.com/bootlaw"&gt;Twitter feed&lt;/a&gt; and the two partners are Twittering away (as @bazv and @danversbaillieu for those who are interested) suggests that they really do know what their prospective clients are looking for. &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;If you don't know,&amp;nbsp; Winston &amp;amp; Strawn LLP is an international law firm with offices all over the place. &lt;a href="http://www.winston.com/index.cfm?contentID=68"&gt;The London office&lt;/a&gt; is at 99 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7NG. And just for the record, I've got no connection with them at all. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/free-legal-boot-camp---a-great-idea-from-winston-strawn.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>The assignment of copyright in bespoke software.</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/qrk6WL3Oayk/the-assignment-of-copyright-in-bespoke-software.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/the-assignment-of-copyright-in-bespoke-software.html" thr:count="0" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-58612652</id>
        <published>2008-11-17T16:55:58+00:00</published>
        <updated>2008-11-17T16:55:58+00:00</updated>
        <summary>A company that commissions bespoke software from a developer won't necessarily own that software unless it agrees clear contractual terms. The most recent restatement of this important principle came earlier this year when the Court of Appeal dismissed a claim...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        
        
<content type="html" xml:lang="en-GB" xml:base="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/">
&lt;div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"&gt;&lt;p&gt;A company that commissions bespoke software from a developer won't necessarily own that software unless it agrees clear contractual terms. The most recent restatement of this important principle came earlier this year when the Court of Appeal dismissed a claim by Meridian International Services Limited that there was an implied term that the copyright in bespoke software should be assigned to it. &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;The case, known as &lt;a href="http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2007/2539.html&amp;amp;query=meridian&amp;amp;method=boolean"&gt;Meridian International Services Ltd v Richardson and others,&lt;/a&gt; makes for interesting reading. It's a story about software developers who fall out with each other and never formally agree in writing who owns the financial forecasting software which had been developed for the Consumer Healthcare Division of GlaxoSmithKline. &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Both the High Court and the Court of Appeal found that the software, known as StratX, belonged to the actual developers who wrote the code, rather than Meridian who had won the work and asked the developers to do the build StratX.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;After reviewing the background which included the evidence of unreliable witnesses, the "phoenix"-like rebirth of Meridian International Services Ltd, immediately after the insolvent demise of Meridian Associates and the tangled web of the financial arrangements that existed between Meridian and the developers, the Court found that it could only imply terms into legal contracts when it was "necessary", and in this case they didn't think it was. It's a reminder that courts can only ever imply terms into agreements when they are "strictly necessary" and not just convenient.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Meridian had argued that they had to own the software not only because they wanted to be able to sell it to other customers, but also because it contained "confidential information". The Judge in the High Court, and supported by the Court of Appeal, took a very different view. Since the software was bespoke it couldn't really be resold to anyone else, unless their processes were identical to GlaxoSmithKline- which the judge commented was an "unlikely eventuality". &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;As to the idea there was confidential information in the software, the judge didn't actually agree, but mentioned that even if there was something confidential in there, then it could be protected as confidential information and that didn't mean the court needed to imply a term that the copyright should be assigned.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;Aside from being a useful reminder that the courts are always reluctant to imply terms into agreements unless they really have to, the principles of copyright ownership are unchanged:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;ul&gt; &lt;li&gt;The author of the work (or his or her employer) is the first owner of the copyright;  &lt;li&gt;The position is not changed simply because the work was commissioned;  &lt;li&gt;In any commercial transaction involving the development of bespoke software, there needs to be written agreement about the ownership - and assignment - of any copyright.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt; &lt;p&gt;Post script:&amp;nbsp; I have linked to the High Court judgment of Mr Robert Ham QC in the body of the post, which as I have said, provides an interesting (even dare I say it, entertaining) read. &lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt;There's less detail in the Court of Appeal's judgment which is &lt;a href="http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/609.html&amp;amp;query=meridian&amp;amp;method=boolean"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Plus there's also &lt;a href="http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/490.html&amp;amp;query=meridian&amp;amp;method=boolean"&gt;a note of the respondents' application for security for costs&lt;/a&gt; which was held before the full Court of Appeal hearing. The respondents (i.e. the actual developers of the software) would have been keen to ensure that if Meridian lost on its appeal, they would be able to recover their costs. It provides information on the high costs involved in this sort of litigation, with Meridian ordered to provide security of £53,000.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/the-assignment-of-copyright-in-bespoke-software.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Commissioner for Oaths - RIP</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/XDOnWXu4JTg/commissioner-for-oaths---rip.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/commissioner-for-oaths---rip.html" thr:count="0" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-57126821</id>
        <published>2008-11-14T18:46:56+00:00</published>
        <updated>2008-11-14T18:46:56+00:00</updated>
        <summary>Just over two years ago I posted about Commissioners for Oaths, who they were, what they did, and offered to provide the service myself. In part it was a test, to see what Google would do with it. Well, it's...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        <category scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" term="Legal" />
        
        
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<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p>Just over two years ago <a href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2006/09/commissioners_f.html">I posted about Commissioners for Oaths</a>, who they were, what they did, and offered to provide the service myself. In part it was a test, to see what Google would do with it. Well, it's been so successful that somewhat reluctantly, I've decided that I can no longer offer the service. I say "reluctantly" because it's become apparent that it's incredibly hard for people to work out how to get documents sworn or affirmed. Recently, I had a phone call from a very charming elderly lady who desperately needed to get a document sworn. She told me her own solicitors (<a href="http://www.fishermeredith.co.uk">Fisher Meredith</a>) based in Stockwell had advised her to go to the local County Court where the service is free, but that when she had gone in, they had refused to help her. </p><p>She was therefore prepared to make the effort to travel a fair distance to see me simply to get this relatively straightforward adminstrative task performed. </p><p>Shortly after that, another lady contacted me to get a document sworn - at the statutory fee of £5. I hesitated, but she seemed to be clear about what she wanted and I agreed to see her. When she came in, she told me that she had been quoted £60 by other solicitors to carry out the service - which should only take a few minutes. And of course, there's the rub. What should only take a few minutes often takes a great deal more than that, and it has got to the point that I have realised it is far more trouble than it is worth. </p><p>Whilst I understand why certain documentation require formal swearing or declaration, I think the burden should fall on the larger firms who are best placed to provide the service and not on the smaller firms who are already over-burdened. I accept that most of these firms are outside residential areas, but I don't see why they shouldn't be obliged to offer the service between certain times on certain days to members of the public. Given my own experience, it's clear they could easily use their own websites to both promote and manage the service and if my experience is anything to go by, the public would undoubedly benefit. It would also give some of the younger lawyers a chance to meet real people, often with real problems which are a far cry from the day to day work of the average commercial lawyer.</p></div>
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    <feedburner:origLink>http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/commissioner-for-oaths---rip.html</feedburner:origLink></entry>
    <entry>
        <title>Do business websites need to provide a phone number?</title>
        <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Lloydlaw/~3/nMrp2iZZeBU/do-business-websites-need-to-provide-a-phone-number.html" />
        <link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/2008/11/do-business-websites-need-to-provide-a-phone-number.html" thr:count="1" thr:updated="2009-11-07T03:46:54+00:00" />
        <id>tag:typepad.com,2003:post-58392636</id>
        <published>2008-11-12T11:47:29+00:00</published>
        <updated>2008-11-12T11:47:29+00:00</updated>
        <summary>The recent ECJ (European Court of Justice) ruling requiring any business website which deals with consumers to provide a means of contact in addition to their postal and email addresses has caused a fair degree of consternation. It's still not...</summary>
        <author>
            <name>Mark Lloyd</name>
        </author>
        <category scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" term="Business" />
        <category scheme="http://www.sixapart.com/ns/types#category" term="Legal" />
        
        
<content type="xhtml" xml:lang="en-GB" xml:base="http://www.lloydlaw.co.uk/">
<div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><p>The recent ECJ (European Court of Justice) <a href="http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=en&amp;newform=newform&amp;alljur=alljur&amp;jurcdj=jurcdj&amp;jurtpi=jurtpi&amp;jurtfp=jurtfp&amp;alldocrec=alldocrec&amp;docj=docj&amp;docor=docor&amp;docop=docop&amp;docav=docav&amp;docsom=docsom&amp;docinf=docinf&amp;alldocnorec=alldocnorec&amp;docnoj=docnoj&amp;docnoor=docnoor&amp;typeord=ALLTYP&amp;docnodecision=docnodecision&amp;allcommjo=allcommjo&amp;affint=affint&amp;affclose=affclose&amp;numaff=298%2F07&amp;ddatefs=&amp;mdatefs=&amp;ydatefs=&amp;ddatefe=&amp;mdatefe=&amp;ydatefe=&amp;nomusuel=&amp;domaine=&amp;mots=&amp;resmax=100&amp;Submit=Submit">ruling</a>
requiring any business website which deals with consumers to provide a
means of contact in addition to their postal and email addresses has
caused a fair degree of consternation. It's still not clear whether the
UK will follow the ruling which appears to have given the generic
"contact form"  a status above and beyond the poor man's email address.
</p> <p>The ECJ ruled that businesses dealing with consumers needed to
provide either a telephone number or a contact form (described as an
"electronic enquiry template") giving consumers the opportuntity to
contact them rapidly in what the court described in a "direct and
effective manner" before any contract was formed.</p> <p>The case was
about a German car insurance company, known as DIV, that offered its
services exclusively on the internet. On its website DIV provided an
email address but no phone number. The body representing German
consumers took legal action on the basis DIV had an obligation to
mention its telephone number to give consumers a chance to talk to DIV
before they entered into any agreement. </p> <p>On the face of it,
that makes sense because we all know as consumers there are times when
it is quicker and simpler to pick up the phone. On the other hand, it's
obvious there's a cost impact of employing staff to answer those
questions. I assume that DIV could probably offer more competitive
rates than over insurance companies because it didn't trouble itself
with answering the phone to its customers, who presumably could have
gone to another insurance company if they had wanted to.</p> <p>Be that
as it may, the judgement is relatively clear and businesses operating
in the consumer market in the UK are now on notice that they may be
required to provide either a phone number or a contact form which must
be responded to promptly if they are going to enter into contracts with
consumers. </p> <p>There's a helpful,detailed note on <a href="http://www.out-law.com/page-9545">Out-Law.com</a> about the impact of the decision on UK businesses with a post script noting that  <a href="http://www.berr.gov.uk/">BERR</a>
(The Department for Business Enterprise and Regulatory Reform) was
still considering the impact of the decision for UK businesses
operating in the e-commerce sphere. </p></div>
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