@mappingmashups Jun 03, 4:19pm Next #geowebchat Tomorrow (Tues Jun 4). Teaching the geoweb, part II: MOOCs & teaching online. 12p PT, 3p ET. cc #currcamp2013. Please RT!

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Hello everyone. #geowebchat is starting now! Follow along with tools like tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat, or mute the hashtag to ignore us.

@mappingmashups 12:01pm Today we’re going to be discussing tools and strategies for teaching the geoweb online. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:02pm All right, @rushgeo, @JessiBreen, and I are here on the Kentucky porch, waiting for #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks 12:02pm Hi #geowebchat. Excited to be participating today…been lurking for a while. I’m a PhD student at U of C studying social media & learning.

@mappingmashups 12:02pm Think of this as a continuation of previous chats on this topic: mappingmashups.net/2012/05/15/geo… and recently mappingmashups.net/2013/05/07/geo… #geowebchat

@udontknowJacq 12:02pm I’ve connected w/ @mappingmashups & I’m hoping to participate & collect data/posts from the #geowebchat community in my doctoral research

@joeeckert 12:03pm @mappingmashups Should also recommend snapchat, official app of #currcamp2013! #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:03pm Hard to learn the about the various geoweb platforms with just one of the current MOOC offerings. Need to use various tutorials. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:03pm @JacqInTheBooks Welcome Jacq! Serendipitously this topic is quite relevant to your work! #geowebchat

@udontknowJacq 12:03pm Link w/ details of my research- informallearningonline.webs.com Please feel free to contact me if u have any questions/concerns/comments #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:04pm I chose today’s topic because I wanted to pick the brains of the #currcamp2013 crew, who spent the last week working on a #MOOC. #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks 12:04pm @mappingmashups Yes, I’m very excited about today’s topic! #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:04pm Anyone else lurking on #geowebchat? I never have a good idea of how many there are here.

@joeeckert 12:05pm .@mappingmashups well, actually, not really a #MOOC per se, but a set of online courses built in a similar modular fashion. #geowebchat

@DonnaGenzmer 12:05pm @joeeckert #geowebchat #lurking

@JessiBreen 12:05pm @mappingmashups Good luck w/ that. Brains are fried.#geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:05pm .@mappingmashups Although it could probably be #MOOC-ized pretty rapidly if they decide to go that route. #geowebchat

@WxDan 12:06pm I’m lurking today – starting my MS in geography at South Carolina in the fall. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:06pm @mappingmashups Welp, pick away. For others, #currcamp13 was at U of Kentucky, where about a dozen of us put together + #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm As far as I can tell #currcamp2013 is an iteration of #sheepcamp, hosted by @floating_sheep. RE last year mappingmashups.net/2012/06/19/geo… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:06pm @WxDan Go Gamecocks! USC undergrad. :) #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:07pm the future of online curriculum for open source GIS/web mapping products. Pretty sweet! Very tired. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:07pm @WxDan Congratulations for being accepted into graduate work and welcome to #geowebchat

@EmmaSlager 12:07pm @joeeckert Lurking! #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:08pm .@mappingmashups yeah, less of a #sheepcamp this year, and more like a pedagogical hack-a-thon #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:09pm So the question we had as #currcamp2013ers, was what needed to be included in a geoweb class. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:09pm A cogent rebuttal to MOOCs cucfa.org/news/2013_may1… for our #geowebchat. Q is, are MOOCs bad for teaching #neogeoweb?

@mappingmashups 12:09pm So before we start picking at the #currcamp2013 crew, has anyone used/seen anything like a geoweb MOOC or other online course? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:09pm #currcamp2013 : the @mattzook-led salt mines of graduate student course development. free food! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:10pm I guess the Geospatial Revolution MOOC is still in the future, correct? coursera.org/course/maps #geowebchat cc @A_C_Robinson

@re_sieber 12:11pm For many years, GIS has been taught w online, distance education. So why not MOOCs for #neogeoweb? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:11pm @mappingmashups I am signed up for that. #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:11pm Geoweb edu examples for users w/ foundation of skills share processes like @mbostock on bl.ocks.org/mbostock w/ real examples. #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:12pm The modules we worked on covered gamut btw critical geo & web skills. Some maybe easier to roll into course managers than others #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:12pm This was a lot of skill building. I think MOOCs work for that. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:12pm @re_sieber probably works great for tech skills – seems more difficult to test for theoretical comprehension w/ multi-choice ?s #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:12pm @joeeckert lurking too..#geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:12pm @mpmckenna8 is that an actual site? I didn’t see anything at that address. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:14pm RT @A_C_Robinson: I think there’s a lot of space for folks to develop excellent geoweb/neocartography/geowhatever MOOCs. #geowebchat

@geographiliac 12:14pm We just left Lexington. Miss you all! #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:14pm @mappingmashups @A_C_Robinson I think it’s just yet to be collated into one MOOC, see twitter.com/mpmckenna8/sta… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:14pm RT @joeeckert: I sometimes think that geoweb studies might be one of the few places where I’m not completely terrified of #MOOCs #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:15pm RT @evanlandman: @mappingmashups @A_C_Robinson this is basically advertising for Penn State’s online GIS classes isnt it #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:15pm At the moment, 17,574 folks have signed up for the #Maps MOOC, over 2000 on the watchlist for the 2nd offering. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:15pm RT @A_C_Robinson: Ah, no, it’s not. I look forward to folks letting me know what they think about the class once it’s opened. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:15pm @mpmckenna8 Why would we expect that though? Don’t teach all of Soc in one course (credit: @JessiBreen) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:16pm I noticed @ hackathons & relev to MOOCs is newbies have huge problem in fig out questions to ask, eg what 2 variables to viz. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:16pm @joeeckert That’s right. I’ll talk and you tweet it. Cyborgs!!!!! #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:16pm @A_C_Robinson Can the unwashed among us get a link? ;) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:16pm @A_C_Robinson @evanlandman Hi guys. I’m retweeting your tweets to the #geowebchat hashtag to keep the rest of the conversation involved.

@A_C_Robinson 12:17pm I think Geography on the whole stands to benefit from the huge exposure possible from MOOCs. We’re just not that visible yet. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:18pm @joeeckert Absolutely! One thing I am doing is compiling a list of resources, further reading, etc… def. shoot me an email. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:18pm @joeeckert We’ve been meaning to talk to you about that…. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:18pm @A_C_Robinson nevermind, found it. for everyone else: coursera.org/course/maps #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:19pm @re_sieber Tools should be able to provide good suggestions for relevant and correlated variables. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:19pm @A_C_Robinson I’m signed up for your course. Looking forward to it, especially after this week at #CurrCamp2013. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:19pm @ajturner @re_sieber doesn’t that assume the right variables are in there in the first place? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:19pm @A_C_Robinson unsurprisingly, big pushback from academics on MOOCs chronicle.com/article/Why-So… hard to teach creativity, insight #geowebchat

@EmmaSlager 12:20pm #Technicity MOOC is related: coursera.org/course/techcity I signed up but was a poor participant b/c of thesis… #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:20pm At the same time, MOOCs are not a panacea for education. Just a new thing that we should give a shot. #geowebchat.

@rushgeo 12:20pm Still wondering how traditional academic model will use MOOC say 10 years from now. Right now seems really experimental. #geowebchat

@runner_steve 12:20pm @A_C_Robinson I’m signed up too. Looking forward to it. #geowebchat

@ajturner 12:20pm @joeeckert More interesting – what if the variables are in another dataset. Can we do data recommendations? @bhecht @re_sieber #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:20pm @re_sieber we’ll just automate creativity and insight through tools, right? ;) #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:21pm @re_sieber Naturally – and I think debate is healthy. Also hard to deny that 1000s around the world have a new kind of access. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:21pm @ajturner sure, but I’d much rather the students know how to find the data themselves. serendipity is algorithmically foiled #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:21pm @ajturner Maybe we educated, highly skilled few take for granted our ability to construct an interesting q to ask w geog&bigdata #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:21pm @ajturner Side note, are you coming to GeoDC tomorrow? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:22pm just watch listed the coursers dealy-o — will audit when access is available #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:22pm @joeeckert opportunity is huge for capacity building in global GI community #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:23pm @EmmaSlager Oh, that’s what #technicity hashtag is about! Good tweets from @EvansCowley, @tomwsanchez coursera.org/course/techcity #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:23pm @ajturner recommendations are neat, I guess, so long as they don’t quench the ability to stumble upon something #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:23pm @A_C_Robinson Concern is not granting access; concern over MOOCs is branding, commod of higher educ. Also uncompensated time #geowebchat

@wilsonism 12:24pm #geowebchat Thank you to the #currcamp2013 participants! #lessonplans make #learningobjectives make #modules

@joeeckert 12:24pm @re_sieber to be fair, we’re increasingly having to go the branding route on this side of the lawn as well #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:24pm @joeeckert I’m eager for all feedback. Also hope to find a way to provide all of the course content in easily resuable form #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:25pm @re_sieber (is this where I plug somelab.net ? floatingsheep.org ? should see the e-mails from mkting dept #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:26pm @re_sieber Yep – I don’t deny any of those concerns. I’m in the middle of it – and I lead tuition $ dependent online progs #geowebchat

@adenas 12:26pm I’m curious to see how the first #MOOCs go – I don’t think any have taken place. Google’s will be first? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:26pm Despite concern, I’m all in favour of skill development via @andyshears #geowebchat wiki or a crowdsourced MOOC.

@A_C_Robinson 12:27pm @re_sieber I think when the dust settles MOOCs will be useful for some stuff and augment, but not replace, the other stuff we do #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:27pm @joeeckert Thus my new mantra: I’m a geography professor, not a commodity! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm RT @re_sieber: Despite concern, I’m all in favour of skill development via @AndrewShears #geowebchat wiki or a crowdsourced MOOC.

@joeeckert 12:28pm @re_sieber yeah, a well-funded, well-known, well-connected professor. some of us still need to run the hustle. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:28pm An opportunity for GIScience could be through MOOCs focused on big research problems (disambiguating placenames in text, etc…) #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:29pm @re_sieber besides, you’re already-always-becoming a market commodity. folks are hustling on your behalf. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:29pm @A_C_Robinson Then we should play a role in clarifying the line btwn skills-based MOOCs and inspiration-based phys activities #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:29pm @A_C_Robinson can you sneak me into the first course if I sign up then? promise not to make you grade ish. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:30pm @joeeckert @re_sieber Well, I’m not those things. So I’m weird. Note that I am the 1 out of 5 launched here who isn’t a rockstar #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:30pm crap, need to bounce to catch the plane, y’all. we’ll talk later, maybe the next #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:30pm Uhoh, looks like the #geowebwiki is down at the moment: geoweb.andrewshears.com. And I think @AndrewShears has appendicitis… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:30pm @joeeckert Thanks for coming for part of it! Safe flight! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:30pm @joeeckert Okay, have to remember my own privilege. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:30pm @joeeckert I’m pretty sure you can join up through the first few days of class. And I’m not grading anything for anyone. :) #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:31pm @re_sieber you can share if you want to, I sure wouldn’t mind. ;) #geowebchat

@runner_steve 12:32pm @mappingmashups I was able to get to the site geoweb.andrewshears.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:32pm @adenas Which one is Google’s? A geo #MOOC? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:32pm @A_C_Robinson Initial dividing line cud b GIS, #neogeoweb in MOOCs; GIScience, criticalGIS in phys courses, meetups, hackathons #geowebchat

@adenas 12:33pm mapping.withgoogle.com/preview
#geowebchat

@adenas 12:34pm I call it a MOOC. Google did no. apb.directionsmag.com/entry/google-a… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:34pm “Mapping with Google” online course. I hadn’t seen that, thanks! RT @adenas: mapping.withgoogle.com/preview #geowebchat #MOOC

@adenas 12:36pm Also planned Pace U GIS MOOC directionsmag.com/articles/pace-… #geowebchat

@runner_steve 12:37pm I saw that link to Google’s course and opted for Anthony’s because Google’s seemed to be basic end user features. #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:37pm @adenas Awesome, hadn’t seen that! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:37pm @A_C_Robinson Sim problem w #bigdata. Insight isn’t automatic & isn’t inductive. Must be carefully guided foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:38pm @JessiBreen @rushgeo do any institutions already have plans to use the #currcamp2013 material in their teaching this fall? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:39pm @mappingmashups I don’t think there are plans for the Fall. It’s still very much in development. @wilsonism? @mattzook? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:40pm @mappingmashups I’m not teaching this year, but I’ll be using them. #geowebchat zook said bsd license?

@joeeckert 12:40pm @JessiBreen pretty sure they said dev this year, teach next. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:41pm @JessiBreen Better use it quick or all your work will be out of date! #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:41pm @mappingmashups My work is timeless. ;) #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:42pm Ideally, what would #geowebchat folks want to see in terms of reusable course content from a MOOC like mine? Where should it be hosted?

@joeeckert 12:42pm @mappingmashups that’s a real problem, innit? We fought with that one. #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:42pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat think global problems for really big issues…GI for Land Reform .benefits to developing countries great #MOOC

@mappingmashups 12:43pm @joeeckert Licensing is tricky. BSD doesn’t require share-alike, so any instructor using the mat’l doesn’t have to share mods #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:43pm For context, we already offer lots of content via open.ems.psu.edu, but it doesn’t seem like a great way to share widely #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:43pm @joeeckert But if you’d picked a share-alike license that would force others to help keep it all up to date… #geowebchat

@MapGoddess 12:44pm @A_C_Robinson UCGIS is talking about hosting course content/resources for sharing #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:44pm @DonnaGenzmer Ah, interesting. I look forward to hearing more about that. #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:44pm .@joeeckert hitting the road from #CurrCamp2013 #geowebchat pic.twitter.com/yFrKNfdydk

@A_C_Robinson 12:45pm @joeeckert CC-Attribution-Share Alike OK or what? That’s what we normally do here with OER. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:45pm @A_C_Robinson In #neogeoweb MOOC, I’d like to see hard core technical material. Coding, client-server communications #geowebchat

@runner_steve 12:45pm @A_C_Robinson I’m looking for exposure to uses of spatial I don’t see at work. Data sets. Where it’s hosted doesn’t matter 2 me. #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:45pm @mappingmashups #geowebchat darn phone

@adenas 12:45pm @A_C_Robinson My informal research is that few know of OER and fewer actually use it. There’s an edu opp there! #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:45pm @mappingmashups Nice thing about that is that their institutional policies might restrict them from using share-alike, though #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:46pm @A_C_Robinson Sure. Anything where I can use it in classes for free #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:46pm @ajturner I used the BoK to develop a roadmap for what topics I’d cover in my MOOC, along with the DoL GIS&T competencies. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:47pm @adenas Totally agree. But then we had a student come here from Iran who said we were famous there for our Python & GIS OER. :) #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:52pm Open geoweb edu content may be good way to foster carto literacy in designers. Less maps with classic mistakes, MAUP, etc #geowebchat

@adenas 12:54pm @rushgeo Yes, more content about the underlying basic principles and less tied to a specific exercise or tech is most helpful. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:54pm Translations: OER = Open Educational Resources, DoL = Dept of Labor, GIS&T = Geographic Information Science & Technology #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:54pm @A_C_Robinson @ajturner I used the NCGIA core curriculum A LOT when I started as prof (techie stuff lk ER model). But never BoK. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm BoK = Body of Knowledge, UCGIS = Univ Consortium for GIS: ucgis.org/priorities/edu… #geowebchat

@GPSBaby 12:56pm @rushgeo agree #opendata constrained to country of interest #openeducation no boundaries..#geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm NCGIA = National Center for Geographic Information and Analysis. Oh, and MOOC = Massive Open Online Course! #geowebchat Did I miss any?

@JessiBreen 12:56pm @mappingmashups I’m glad someone speaks academic twitter abbreviations. #geowebchat

@JacqInTheBooks 12:57pm @mappingmashups Thanks the translations are helpful :-) #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:57pm I mentioned idea of contributing a geoweb core to GIS&T, but probably few things that can be formalized as change is constant #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:58pm We are approaching the end of this #geowebchat… any last thoughts? #currcamp2013 people, where online should we look for results/reports?

@re_sieber 12:58pm .@mappingmashups has become our #neogeoweb acronym decoder #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:59pm @re_sieber I should write a bot to do it. #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:59pm @mappingmashups Not sure where #CurrCamp2013 stuff will end up or when, but I’ll certainly spread the word when it’s up. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm Remember that as always I’ll be posting the transcript from this chat here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/ #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:00pm @mappingmashups DOO IIIIT. I’d proudly put that on my CV if I did it. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:00pm @mappingmashups We should build on NCGIA model, esp w rapidly changing content: mini MOOCs that are customizable, mix/match #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm Maybe we’ll return to this topic in a few months, after we see how the “Summer of Geo-MOOCs” turns out? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 1:00pm @mappingmashups If you want to write a twitterbot, we had some good ideas for some during our evening “break out” sessions. :) #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:01pm @re_sieber What we worked on at #CurrCamp2013 might work for that. We had modules that were collected into “classes”… #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:02pm @re_sieber … but there would be many other ways to arrange them based on goals and other avail. content #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm Next #geowebchat topics: “CyberGIS & the Geoweb” on Jun 18 w/ @agaleszczynski & “Social reputation/credibility” on Jul 2 w/ @floraandflying

@mappingmashups 1:03pm Thanks everybody for joining #geowebchat today, especially the new people! See you every 1st and 3rd Tuesday at the same time!

@MapGoddess 1:03pm @A_C_Robinson new #UCGIS intitiative: #BoK update. John Wilson USC leading the initiative. Skupin, Ahern & Plewe w ideas as well #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:04pm @rushgeo Bld course content that can be delivered online and/or in class. I’m thinking segmented by class but cud b done by goal #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:05pm RT @ThomasG77: BoK PDF aag.org/cs/bok Rediscover it answering to “Learning to think spatially” gis.stackexchange.com/questions/4204… #geowebchat

@jscarto 1:06pm @A_C_Robinson what do you think of a MOOC w/ open content contribution + github-style issues, pull requests? (Assuming oversight)#geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 1:08pm @MapGoddess Yep, I’ve seen the tool Skupin is working on, which is really cool. Can’t wait til v2 of the BoK is out in the wild #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 1:09pm @mappingmashups Sounds great to me! I’m eager to share as much as possible about the experience of developing and teaching one. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 1:20pm Good news: no appendicitis and it seems the #geoweb wiki is back online. #geowebchat

@Abi_Gilmore 2:08pm Aha MT@mappingmashups: “Mapping with Google” online course. RT @adenas: mapping.withgoogle.com/preview #geowebchat #MOOC

Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance.
– Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus p. 238

At the recent Association of American Geographers conference in Los Angeles, I presented some of my in-progress dissertation research on the dynamics of editing behavior in OpenStreetMap. In the next few blog posts I will summarize what I presented at the conference and what I’ve been doing since then. In this post in particular I’ll explain what I’m trying to accomplish, and describe the basic components of my analysis. I will save most of the results for other blog posts. I welcome comments and critiques, especially from members of the OpenStreetMap community.

If you want, you can skip ahead to the maps and charts.

Motivation

One of the fundamental questions in my research involves the distinction between building and maintenance in crowdsourced online knowledge projects such as Wikipedia or OpenStreetMap, projects where both building and maintenance are largely performed by volunteers without financial gain. While I disagree with the sentiment in this Vonnegut quote—clearly there are people who do enjoy some kinds of maintenance—intuitively we might expect that building and maintenance involve different kinds of tasks, often requiring different types of skills or different personality types, and usually offering different kinds of (non-monetary) rewards.

Why is this important? While the volume of Volunteered Geographic Information (VGI) continues its rapid growth, many collaborative mapping projects are approaching a mature phase, where the primary activity shifts away from the initial creation of data to its ongoing maintenance. For example, in many parts of the world, OpenStreetMap’s road network is approaching “completeness” (at least by some metrics, such as total length of line features), leaving OSM contributors to move on to mapping other features, such as adding buildings and other points-of-interest, or elaborating on existing features by introducing more attribute information (such as adding lane counts to motorways or modeling turn restrictions at intersections).

The tasks of adding attribute data and periodically updating the map to reflect changes on the ground may seem less glamorous than the initial process of filling in the blank spots on the map, but they are no less important. The accuracy and reliability of volunteered data depends on this continual process of maintenance, and supporters of VGI often tout user-based quality control as a key feature that makes VGI superior to proprietary, expert-created data sources.

Despite its importance, however, the nature of volunteer-led maintenance of geographic information remains poorly understood. Most research to date does not differentiate between various types of interaction with VGI datasets, treating all contributions (and all contributors) in the same way. This leaves many questions unanswered. For example: are the users who initially contribute data the same users who maintain it later? Do the types of tasks undertaken by users change over the duration of their engagement with a project? Are initial contributors more or less likely to have local knowledge of a place than those who maintain that data later?

In my research, I am developing a typology of different modes of interaction with VGI datasets, specifically to distinguish between the acts of adding new data and editing existing data. Drawing from similar non-geospatial peer production projects such as Wikipedia, I adapt the concept of “wiki gardening” and propose the term “map gardening” to describe volunteer-based maintenance of VGI. In this blog post I describe my initial quantitative analysis of the OSM database to determine the extent and frequency of these different types of interaction.

Defining building and maintenance (or “exploring” and “gardening”)

Defining the difference between building and maintenance is difficult and subjective. Crowdsourced projects such as OpenStreetMap are never “finished” and remain in a constant state of revision and flux. One person might consider their contributions to OSM to be part of building the project, while someone else might perceive the same activity as a form of maintenance. Elsewhere in my dissertation I dive into this question further, including the social aspects of motivation and reward that surround the distinctions between building and maintenance.

For the purposes of the analysis I am presenting in this post, however, I take a simple approach: I divide OSM edits into two categories:

1. Contributions to areas that are “blank spots” on the map at the time the edit occurred. I will often call these “blankspot edits” for brevity. These edits represent mappers who are filling in the map for the first time; in a sense, they are “exploring” the unknown.
2. Any edits in the database in areas where some features already exist. This category includes several different kinds of edits: introducing new features next to existing features, modifying the shape of existing features, or adding or modifying attribute data (known in OSM as “tags”) to existing features. I am calling all of these activities “map gardening”.

Clearly, different assumptions made at this point would result in very different quantitative findings from the analysis. In later phases of my research I plan to refine this typology to further subdivide the types of editing activities I am currently grouping together under the umbrella concept of gardening. More accurately, we might think of “exploring” and “gardening” as two ends of a continuum.

The question of imports

This classification of individual editor behavior will help us understand individuals’ roles within the overall evolution of OSM, and will also help us make comparisons between different areas around the world. In particular, this analysis may help cast light on an ongoing debate within the OpenStreetMap community about the role of data imports. In some parts of the world, most notably in the United States, the bulk of the data within OSM was not contributed by volunteer mappers but rather was imported en masse from external data sources.

Number of features in the OpenStreetMap database. The spike in 2007 caused by the TIGER data import is clearly visible. Source: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats

In the case of the US, the federal government’s TIGER data is available under a public domain license, which is compatible with OpenStreetMap’s Creative Commons-based license (now the similar ODbL). The TIGER data provided OSM with a complete street network in the United States which could then be refined and built-upon by OSM volunteers. On the one hand, data imports appear to be great advantage to OSM, giving the project a jump start and getting the map closer to the point of providing a free and usable world map without having to create every feature “from scratch”. However, many people within the OSM community argue that imports hinder the development of strong local mapping communities, by giving the impression that the map is already finished. By this argument, there would be fewer active mappers who would detect errors in the TIGER data or keep it up to date as facts on the ground change over time.

In my research I hope to add to this discussion about imports, by investigating how editing activity differs between areas that experienced major data imports and those that did not. By looking at the editing history of contributors within each of these areas, we may be able to answer whether or not the presence of imports actually hinders the growth of local mapping communities.

Data and analysis

I downloaded the OSM “full history dump” http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm/full which includes every previous version of every feature within the OSM database. There are a few caveats here: the OSM database structure changed significantly with the introduction of API version 0.5 in October 2007. For features that existed before October 2007, the history dump only includes the version that existed at the moment of the changeover. For example, if a node was created in 2005, then modified in 2006, only the 2006 version of that node exists in the database. What that node looked like in 2005 (and who edited it) is now lost.

I used a history dump that includes all versions up to June 1, 2012. I chose this cut-off date to avoid analyzing any of the redactions that occurred in the OSM database starting in July 2012 in preparation for the transition to the ODbL license.

For the purposes of this analysis I disregarded ways and relations, and only looked at the nodes in the database (which includes not just POIs, but all the nodes that define the geometry of ways, as well). I used Peter Körner’s powerful osm-history-splitter and osm-history-renderer tools to extract a small number of study areas and load them into a PostGIS database.

In each study area I overlaid a grid aligned with the appropriate UTM zone for each area. I began with 1000m grid spacing (although I am also testing smaller grid sizes). Within each grid cell, I queried PostGIS to find the earliest node within each cell. These nodes I called the “blank spot” edits, as they were mapped in a grid cell that was empty at the moment they were added to the database. All other nodes I treat as “gardening” edits.

Having tagged each node as a blank spot edit or not, I then calculated statistics for each unique user who had at least one edit within the given study area. Any edits that each user made outside the study area were not counted. I calculated the following statistics for each user:

• Number of edited nodes – The number of times the user’s name appears in the database. This count is not the same as OSM’s concept of an “edit”: because we are treating each node individually, if a contributor creates a polygon that comprises 10 nodes, that would create 10 edited node records in the database.
• Number of version 1 nodes – Similar to the count of edited nodes, but includes only nodes that are version 1 in the database. This signifies the moment that a feature is created in the database. Any subsequent modification (changing its location or adding attribute data) will increment the version number. The “version 1 edits” resemble our concept of “exploring” in contrast to subsequent version edits which fall into our concept of “map gardening”. However, using version 1 edits as an indicator of “exploring” is challenging in at least two ways. First, the newly-added version 1 nodes could represent features that are immediately adjacent to existing features, such as buildings, bus stops, fire hydrants, etc. They might also include minor roads in between existing features, a process that Corcoran et al. call “densification”. The second problem is that the OSM database provides no guarantee that a real-world feature is always represented by the same database object (a specific node, in this case). Frequently OSM editors who are updating a feature may delete the database object entirely and recreate it anew. In this case an activity that we would clearly call “gardening” would produce a new version 1 feature in the database.
• Number of edited nodes in “blank spots on the map” – To avoid the problems described with counting version 1 edits, we can identify version 1 edits that occur in grid cells where no other nodes exist. These are the “blank spot edits” described earlier.
• First editing date – The date of the contributor’s first edit, in other words, the first date the user appears in the database. As the map fills in over time, there will be fewer opportunities to make “blank spot” edits. Thus, OSM contributors who joined the project early on are likely to have made more blank spot edits.
• Total number of days editing – A count of the number of unique days (measured from midnight to midnight in the time zone for each study area) that the contributor edited nodes in the database.
• Mean editing date – The average of all the dates in which the contributor was active in the database.
• Weighted mean editing date – The average of all the dates in which the contributor was active in the database, weighted by the number of edits that occurred on each date.

This is by no means an exhaustive list of statistics that could be generated using this dataset.

Study areas

I selected a few study areas, mostly metropolitan areas in Europe and North America, with the specific goal of looking for differences between areas that experienced data imports and those that did not. I plan to keep adding new study areas as I move forward.

To illustrate how the OpenStreetMap coverage in these study areas followed very different evolutionary paths, here are some animations of London, Seattle, and Vancouver, showing how each map changed over time.

London:

London is a prime example of an area mapped “from scratch” by volunteers, with no significant imports. The map fills in steadily and quickly, with most of the blank spots filled in by 2008. Continued refinement is visible throughout the map from 2008 onward.

Seattle:

Seattle is a typical example of a US city that shows the result of a major data import. The map begins with very little data, then fills in suddenly due to the large TIGER import in 2007. However, even after the TIGER import, continuous gardening activity is apparent, much like in the London map.

Vancouver:

Vancouver shows slow but continuous growth, marked by several imports that are much smaller than Seattle’s TIGER import, and occur much later, beginning around 2009. In contrast to the US, data imports in the Canadian context were delayed because of concerns that the licensing terms on the Canadian government map data were incompatible with OpenStreetMap’s license. By the time the legal uncertainty had been resolved in late 2008, OSM contributors had already mapped a significant amount of Canada’s major cities.

Mapping the “blank spot” edits

I used latitude/longitude bounding boxes to extract the study areas from the OSM full history database as a whole. I then created analysis grids aligned to the appropriate UTM zone for each study area. The following maps show the study area, along with the analysis grid and the nodes identified as “blank spot” edits. Move your mouse over each node to see the date of the edit and the contributor’s username. Nodes lacking a username were contributed by anonymous editors.

The basemap shows a rendering of every version of every line and polygon edge present in the OSM database. Thus, thicker and darker lines are not necessarily more important features, but are simply those features that have been edited more frequently (having more versions present in the database). Lines that were subsequently deleted from OSM are still present on these maps.

London:

(view larger map)

Seattle:

(view larger map)

Vancouver:

(view larger map)

Scatterplots

Finally, here are some scatterplots showing the differences in editing styles among contributors in each study area. Each dot represents a unique username in the database. The dots are sized according to the number of days each user was active editing the map. The dots are positioned according to how many total nodes the user edited (the x axis, scaled logarithmically) and how many blankspot edits the user made (the y axis, also a log scale).

Note that there is a clear diagonal asymptote along the line x = y (not shown), which is expected, because it would be impossible for the number of blankspot edits to be greater than the total number of edits. Thus, the closer a user comes to that diagonal line, the higher their percentage of blankspot edits. In other words: users closer to that line tend to be “map explorers”, while users along the x axis at the bottom of the chart tend to be “map gardeners”. Move your mouse over each dot to see the username and number of edits.

London:

Seattle:

Vancouver:

More to come in later posts…

@mappingmashups May 18, 3:34pm Next #geowebchat: Personalized maps & the #filterbubble (suggested reading: theatlanticcities.com/technology/201…) Join the chat, Tues 12pm PDT. Please RT!

@mappingmashups May 18, 3:40pm Here’s the sign-up link for the new Google Maps: maps.google.com/help/maps/hell…. Maybe you’ll get an invite in time to try it out before #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 10:25am More reading for #geowebchat today (12pm PT): “Why the New Google Maps Is the Most Honest Form of Cartography” theatlantic.com/technology/arc…

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Starting now: #geowebchat about personalized maps and the “filter bubble”! theatlanticcities.com/technology/201…

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Follow hashtag #geowebchat to join the conversation, or mute the hashtag to ignore us. tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat is another good way to follow.

@mappingmashups 12:02pm Obviously the new vers. of Google Maps maps.google.com/help/maps/hell… prompted our chat, but any kind of personalized map is fair game. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:04pm I’m still waiting for my invite to the new Google Maps, so I haven’t tested the creep factor myself. Has anyone else tried it? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm RT @mattdance: Creepy. And misses the most exiting point of map – discovery of the new & unknown (to me at least) & connecting. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:06pm @mappingmashups Still waiting on my invite, too. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:07pm @mattdance I get the loss of the unknown, but can you elaborate on “connecting”? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:08pm @mappingmashups @mattdance It seems like an evolutionary step- many of the same business logics as Google had b4- now farther #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @mattdance Thing is, though, that previous GMaps (and maps in general) aren’t necessarily good at showing the new and unknown… #geowebchat

@jfire 12:09pm It looks like the new Google Maps is already personalizing the map based on gmap search history. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @mattdance …previous maps just show the old and popular. Might be new to you, but there’s lots of “new” you’d be missing. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:10pm The personalization of google web search results is convenient, yet annoying. Makes me feel overly directed. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:11pm Same with autosuggest of search terms – convenient, yet very limiting #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:11pm Censorship in the name of efficiency? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:12pm RT @mattdance: True on the new. But, it’s a place to start for a person exploring a ‘new’ region, trying to engage w/ unkn geogs #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:12pm I think the concern is that people won’t recognize that they are being limited. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:13pm personalized maps and search terms make me wish for the frontier days of the web…. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:14pm @JessiBreen Maybe there just needs to be more transparency? Google does some of that, in fine print saying why a place is rec’d. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:15pm @peterajohnson The frontier days when everybody’s search results were exactly the same as everybody else’s? Homogeneity? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:15pm @mappingmashups @JessiBreen #geowebchat perhaps somthing like Journalism’s independent source rule that requires at least two sources?

@mappingmashups 12:15pm @jfire John, the new maps is turned on for you? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:16pm @mappingmashups I think it would be an interesting survey to see how aware of Google’s algorithms people are. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:16pm @mappingmashups More like when you travel to a place and can’t help but wish you’d been there 10 years ago before it was ruined #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:17pm @peterajohnson Are you allowed to have those thoughts as a tourism geographer? ;) #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:17pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson #geowebchat Multiple questions? 1 Political- issue of what is public sphere and 2 Cultural limits

@jfire 12:17pm @mappingmashups Yes. Example: Stamen Design studio appears on my map. I searched for it when I visited for an OSM editathon. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:18pm RT @CraigMDalton: #geowebchat Yes; Filter Bubble, but also Hillis et al.’s “Google: The Culture of Search” (2013)

@mappingmashups 12:19pm @jfire Interesting. Do you do Google Places reviews, or have a G+ friends who do? I’m especially curious about those effects. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:19pm perhaps Google’s filter bubble will create a niche for non-filtered search engines? Or is Google-search dominance too strong? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:20pm Is there an on off function? Show me something new vs show me something I am sure to like #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:20pm @mappingmashups @jfire #geowebchat it’s tempting to drop my Cookies, cache, history etc… to see how this develops from a minimal start

@Issy_01 12:21pm What difference is googles maps engine going to make? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:21pm @bricker but why dispute that the Google algorithm has perfectly matched your needs and wants? ;) #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:21pm @bricker I’d be a lot less anxious about it if it had that option. #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:22pm @bricker #geowebchat I’m reminded of Marshall McLuhan’s prediction that the off buttons on TV’s would become obsolete

@skorasaurus 12:22pm @bricker notifying you of something you’ll like and new places based on location, what yelp 4sq are doing #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:22pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups @jfire You’d just need a virtual machine, right? #geowebchat

@jfire 12:22pm @mappingmashups Haven’t written any reviews myself. I’m assuming it’s based on search history, but don’t know for sure. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:23pm @CraigMDalton @bricker TVs work without remotes? #geowebchat

@jfire 12:24pm I recall seeing a research project recently that generated routes with an element of serendipity. Anyone have a link? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:24pm @Issy_01 Interesting Q. I wonder whether user-generated data (like My Maps formerly) will make its way into the algorithm? #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:25pm So you could use Google Maps in a “depersonalized” way by clearing cache and signing out of Google, right? Or dedicate a browser #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm @JessiBreen @CraigMDalton A virtual machine might be overkill. Just a different browser, or a browser on incognito. #geowebchat

@jfire 12:25pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups Pretty sure access to the preview is tied to your G+ account, so might be tough. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm @JessiBreen @CraigMDalton Although there have been some rumors of ppl getting personalized search results based on their IP. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:26pm … that might not work, if their algorithm considers your operating system and location, which I bet it does #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:26pm … I’m more interested in “tweaking” the algorithm to see what variations I can produce than turning it off #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:26pm @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton That is creepy. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:28pm @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton We are all officially just numbers. #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:28pm @mizmay #geowebchat yes- exactly. I’d be curious to see how it builds over time to get hints at how it works

@mappingmashups 12:28pm @jfire Possibly serendipitor.net from Mark Shepard (sentientcity.net) #geowebchat

@Issy_01 12:28pm @CraigMDalton @mappingmashups I’m currently using My Places, for the NGO I work for, is there going to be a signficant change? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:31pm When we ask serendipity from non-personalized maps, we must be much more conscious/active. #psychogeography doesn’t just happen. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:32pm @Issy_01 I’m not sure. I don’t know if My Places will change. Presumably not. #geowebchat

@jfire 12:32pm @mappingmashups Y, same idea. The one I saw suggested POIs along the route and had a dial for “how much free time do you have?” #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:33pm @JessiBreen @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton no way! not just numbers! we are definitely all huge hashes of all types of chars. ;) #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:33pm Search Engine Land has some interesting SEO-type points: searchengineland.com/new-google-map… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:33pm @jfire @mappingmashups BBC had a web article about 5 apps to help you find new places yesterday. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:34pm Or I should say, #psychogeography always happens. But a situationist dérive doesn’t just happen by using an unpersonalized map. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:35pm @mizmay @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton Don’t forget “potential revenue.” #geowebchat

@Geodoc31 12:35pm @mappingmashups That’s right, but Nothaft (2010) mentioned 4 types of construction of Serendipity #geowebchat

@Geodoc31 12:37pm @mappingmashups Editorial Serendipity, social serendipity, crowdsourced serendipity and algorithmic serendipity #geowebchat

@Geodoc31 12:39pm @mappingmashups Serendipity is linked to an action, a research… that produces unexpected outcomes, so it needs engagement #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:39pm Nothhaft (@henryhank): The Myth Of Serendipity techcrunch.com/2010/11/27/myt… on Eric Schmidt calling Google a “serendipity engine” #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:42pm Did anyone notice @TheAtlantic theatlantic.com/technology/arc… vs. @emilymbadger @AtlanticCities theatlanticcities.com/technology/201… ? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:42pm @nelson @mizmay Are we trying to test a non-personalized Google Maps, or to see the personalization happen from tabula rasa? #geowebchat

@emilymbadger 12:45pm @mizmay we are of many minds. :) But I think we can acknowledge that objectivity is nonexistent while still criticizing it. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:45pm @mizmay Yeah, @emilymbadger mentions @lmirani’s view in her article. Def @TheAtlantic and @AtlanticCities are all over this! #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:45pm @nelson that is a good question; I would assume so. #geowebchat.

@mizmay 12:47pm @mappingmashups @nelson I do not think I have the patience for the evolution of personalization… sounds like parenting o smthg #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:47pm RT @CraigMDalton: I’m more into B- see how it shapes my behavior; the range of cultural, visual ideas and possibilities #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:49pm On a purely cartographic level, did any of you watch the video to see how the GMaps basemap changes in response to searches? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:50pm …You see roads change color (& thickness? not sure) to highlight streets relevant to the highlighted place. It assumes a lot. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:50pm @mappingmashups @emilymbadger @lmirani Oh missed the ref! No that’s great @TheAtlantic @AtlanticCities #manyminds #winning #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm …but it’s an interesting take on the growing flexibility of the basemap, and a move away from tired content/basemap binary. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:53pm @mappingmashups aye vector tiles. (sigh) vector tiles. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm Well, we’re about ready to wrap up another #geowebchat. Any last thoughts on the future of personalized cartography?

@emilymbadger 12:57pm @mappingmashups 1) I like idea of on/off switch. 2) @geoplace made interesting pt about how this will make studying maps harder #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:58pm Next #geowebchat will be same time in two weeks, June 4. Looking for a topic and guest host! More info here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@mappingmashups 12:59pm And as always, take a moment to contribute to the #geowebwiki: geoweb.andrewshears.com #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:59pm RT @samhind10: infinitely harder to generalize. “the map does this” etc. just won’t stand up w/o increasing specificity. #geowebchat

@samhind10 1:01pm @mappingmashups also poss. make political action even more challenging. How to find common ground when there isn’t any. #geowebchat

@mattdance 1:01pm @mappingmashups Thanks for great hosting Alan. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm Thanks everybody! See you next time. And thanks @emilymbadger at @AtlanticCities for the article that inspired today’s chat. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:04pm @samhind10 Or “common ground” and action will only be possible when activists are all G+ friends… #geowebchat

@re_sieber May 06, 2:59pm Tmr #geowebchat 3pm EDT ‘That sh1t is hard to teach!’ Getting our colleagues 2appreciate challenges of teaching ever changing geoweb. Pls RT

@peterajohnson 11:44am @re_sieber @AndrewShears can’t make it to #geowebchat. Driving in rural Nova Scotia

@re_sieber 11:59am #geowebchat in a minute: That sh1t is hard to teach!Get colleagues 2appreciate challenges of teaching geoweb

@re_sieber 12:01pm Hi Everyone & welcome to #geowebchat on That sh1t is hard to teach!Get colleagues 2appreciate challenges of teaching geoweb

@re_sieber 12:02pm This is a response to our colleagues who teach from yellow notes & think teaching geoweb is same as other (unchanging) courses #geowebchat

@bricker 12:03pm @re_sieber #geowebchat Thank you for hosting! Is the point for you colleagues to appreciate it? or to get more prereqs for these students?

@re_sieber 12:05pm @bricker mostly getting our colleagues, who dont apprec challenges of teaching course tht changes minute to minte #geowebchat

@Fischbob 12:06pm As a #neogeoweb student of @re_sieber, I can attest that APIs never stand still; thus neither can curricula #movingtarget #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:06pm our colleagues, who are sources of pay increases, lab allocation, hardware/software purchases & other resources for geoweb #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:07pm @re_sieber Is it possible these colleagues think teaching geoweb isn’t important precisely _because_ it changes so fast? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:09pm @Fischbob thks for joining. Tech can b considerably expensive, also for TAs. U can attest to need 4 TAs &instructional support. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:10pm @re_sieber Is the tech requirement of teaching geoweb any different from teaching state-of-the-art GIS? Both need new-ish PCs… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:11pm @re_sieber …but teaching geoweb vs teaching GIS means you can save on software licenses #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:11pm Intg pt @mappingmashups, only once material is settled does it approach theory & then is approp for teaching in #geowebchat

@bricker 12:11pm @mappingmashups cost may even be lower since the software is less expensive than you know who… #geowebchat

@Fischbob 12:12pm @re_sieber Instructional support is vital. Like GIS, geoweb instruction requires a lot of hands-on teaching and learning. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:13pm @Fischbob @re_sieber Yes, even if tech costs aren’t much different, teaching geoweb (well) needs much more TA time #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:14pm @mappingmashups W initiatives lke charging for Google App Engine &higher bandwidth access APIs, plus hardware, still wont b free #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm @mappingmashups @Fischbob Courses may resemble compsci more than GIS in geog. Compsci has hist of more TAs than geog #geowebchat

@bricker 12:17pm @re_sieber what have you experienced with your colleagues? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:17pm In Geog, we also have to convince 2 audiences of colleagues: physical geog & human geog. Ea has diff views of geoweb #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:17pm Hello #geowebchat! Yes, this shit is hard to teach! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:19pm @bricker They think geoweb is ab theory, a survey course. No need to teach tech, whether like GIS or lk @floating_sheep #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:20pm @mappingmashups Hey now, don’t forget those of us without TAs. We’re working even harder to stay up / catch up. #geowechat #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:20pm @re_sieber @bricker Any class on #geoweb HAS to be a lab, or treated like one. #geowebchat #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:21pm Aha, double hashtag madness again. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:22pm @AndrewShears @mappingmashups : @fishbob can tell you how hard these courses r wo TAs. U need scale back or teach mult courses #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:23pm I know one thing I talked with @re_sieber about was that teaching #geoweb is about tech adaptability more than single platform. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:24pm …basically, prep students to adapt to changing technologies and using them for inquiry.
#geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:25pm @AndrewShears Geoweb is ab a new way of thinking: call it integrative skills (interoperability intelligence?) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm Was impressed to hear on @hotosm list (via @mikel) that George Washington U teaches OSM in class, & students are graded on edits #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:25pm What would #Geoweb 101 entail? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:27pm @re_sieber Interoperability intelligence (plus basic tech skills) and spatial theory to inform decisions. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:28pm @mappingmashups @hotosm @mikel Is OSM at GWU Geoweb101 or GIS using OSM? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:29pm @mappingmashups I do OSM in intro to GIS. I try to expose them to many platforms (bc of “interoperability intelligence” goal) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:30pm Think we’re dancing ar problem of convincing our colleagues of importance of teaching this new tech #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:31pm @re_sieber Well, the best luck I’ve had with it is demonstration. Have students present #geoweb-ish projects to school. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:32pm Projects here have been more DIY mapping than geoweb, but when students show & tell everyone what all they did… speaks loudly #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:32pm I’m hoping at @mansfieldU to have some geoweb hackathons once I get established. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:33pm How do we convince the geomorphologist that we need TAs for our small courses? It’s ok that they resemble CompSci? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:34pm @re_sieber Work with the geomorph to do a geoweb project on their area of interest. Worked here with a geologist! #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:35pm Are folks teaching behavior i.e. Search, mash-up, publish? Or are they teaching technology i.e. D3, Mapbox, Arcmap? #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:35pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber not sure geoweb is a REPLACEMENT for proprietary GIS software… yet #geowebchat.

@re_sieber 12:36pm @AndrewShears I had same problem when teaching GIS. Licenses were expensive, TAs were needed along w many lab hours #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:37pm Binary? RT @mizmay: @mappingmashups @re_sieber not sure geoweb is a REPLACEMENT for proprietary GIS software… yet #geowebchat.

@mappingmashups 12:37pm @mizmay @re_sieber Not saying it is, (yet). But any decently-equipped geog dept should have the tech to teach geoweb _and_ GIS #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:37pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber @bricker does geoweb have the potential to liberate minds from mindset of “ArcGIS technician”? #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:38pm @michael_d_gould @mappingmashups @re_sieber @bricker only saves money if it is “binary” ie a replacement #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:39pm @michael_d_gould I think geoweb course is 2 types: tech heavy and social theory heavy. Tech ver probab focuses too much on tools #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:39pm Absolutely. It did me! MT @mizmay @mappingmashups @re_sieber @bricker can geoweb liberate mindset of “ArcGIS technician”? #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:40pm @michael_d_gould much easier to teach technology, since most GIS ed requires minimal prog experience… I wish behavior #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:41pm @re_sieber @michael_d_gould I could see intro geoweb class combine basic tech + soc theory, advanced courses more specialized #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:41pm Desktop GIS world is merging w geoweb tech already. No need to pretend one is starting a revolution. #justsayin #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:41pm @AndrewShears @mappingmashups @mizmay Yes. We need more geospatial analysis/viz/big data/sm data courses #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:42pm @re_sieber @michael_d_gould Can same be said for GIS courses? The social theory GIS courses seem rare. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:42pm @re_sieber intro CS classes get away with minimal TAs by requiring students to provide working demos/code, credit if it runs #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:42pm @michael_d_gould Isn’t GIS world merging with geoweb tech out of necessity, to maintain relevance? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:43pm The challenge indeed is todays topic: how to convince paleoprofs to change gears and teach geoweb tech. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:43pm @michael_d_gould Merger of geoweb&GIS allows for a rethink of how we teach geospatial thinking & data handling #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:44pm @michael_d_gould I mean, ArcGiIS.com is about as half-baked as it comes. That’d be embarrassing to a geowebber. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:45pm @michael_d_gould #paleogeo profs are now used to GIS, though some still chafe @ resource reqs. Geoweb is diff animal #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:45pm @mizmay saves money? How did that suddenly sneak in there? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:45pm @michael_d_gould forgive my crummy link. #FatFingers #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:45pm @michael_d_gould geoweb does not have all that desktop gis does for phys geo, problem of bandwidth, lack of sophistication too. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:45pm No RT @AndrewShears: @michael_d_gould Isn’t GIS world merging with geoweb tech out of necessity, to maintain relevance? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:46pm Because tech is changung and users demand it RT @AndrewShears: @michael_d_gould Isn’t GIS world merging with geoweb tech #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:47pm @re_sieber so need new profs for geoweb? Or retrain old dogs? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:47pm @michael_d_gould I think we’re actually agreeing there… GIS incorporating geoweb to maintain relevance to users. :-) #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley 12:48pm I’ve taught a “Geospatial Information Services” module for 2yrs now based on #OSGeo Live. Good stack. Lots of tech to teach tho. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:49pm @mizmay I wonder if that’s partially interest-based… geoweb folk seem more interested in human than phys #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:49pm @re_sieber @michael_d_gould A real opportunity for geoweb MT @mappingmashups The social theory GIS courses seem rare #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley 12:50pm The issue is that to teach to a decent level of understanding the guts of #geoweb there’s stacks of foundation to get thru #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:51pm @michael_d_gould Bc I’m an old GIS dog I think we need to retrain olds & bring in new, bc geoweb is new way of thinking ab geo #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:51pm @jeremy_morley Agreed, though I think it’d be possible in a 4-5 credit lab section to get a good understanding out there #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:51pm @AndrewShears @mizmay Or geoweb folk are more comfortable with VGI about messy human data than citsci about physical phenomena? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:52pm @jeremy_morley The fundamentals of the stack are important & a big hurdle for Geweob101 #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:52pm @AndrewShears I personally do my phys geo on the desktop as geoweb doesn’t add anything, whereas for hum geo, it does #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley 12:53pm So how much XML, HTML, CSS, JS, SQL, JSON, AJAX, etc., does a student need? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:54pm All of it. :-D RT @jeremy_morley: So how much XML, HTML, CSS, JS, SQL, JSON, AJAX, etc., does a student need? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:55pm @mizmay Me too, but I’ve honestly never thought about why… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:56pm I think one approach to getting #geoweb accepted by colleagues is to show how empowering the tech can be. #geowebchat

@jeremy_morley 12:57pm Has anyone seen the 5 days we do for the #Girona open source summer school? Material is online at #SIGTE. #geowebchat //cc @lluisvicens

@re_sieber 12:57pm @mizmay @AndrewShears Precisely. Phys geog is ab analysis (although more #bigdata & crowdsourcing). Hum geog susceptible 2VGI #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:57pm @jeremy_morley Enough to be able to handle whatever new acronym/tech comes up in the future… #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:58pm does anyone teach a super basic geoweb course, like ‘intro to digital mapping’ with no coding or advanced skills required? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:58pm Few minutes left for #geowebchat. Any last thoughts?

@jeremy_morley 12:59pm Yes, @AndrewShears – especially as a means of dissemination & impact. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:59pm @jeremy_morley Unfortunately, I think the answer is one that moves based on indiv need. I don’t learn language until needed. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 1:00pm I think @jeremy_morley hit on something here: geowebber needs so indiv+changing, there isn’t a single skill set for languages. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:00pm We still have a huge hurdle for convincing our colleagues to accept geoweb. @AndrewShears has best idea: get to them thru demos #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 1:01pm @re_sieber yes, agree that retraining is necessary. But there seems to be an implied philosphy chg also. ? #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 1:01pm Our biggest barrier is standards. We can’t list skills to be taught by language, software. We have to be too general for many. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:01pm Propagate geoweb: get to our colleagues thru their students #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:02pm @michael_d_gould Geoweb reqs a philosophy change. And that’s a good way to end this #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:03pm Thanks everyone for a great #geowebchat. Be sure to visit the geowebwiki!

@jeremy_morley 1:04pm Another area that should IMO be part of #geoweb teaching is HCI / human factors issues. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 1:04pm I still think geobehaviors shd be focus. Ex: mobility, not mobile apps. What does it mean 2b mobile? How to engance it? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:04pm Thanks @re_sieber for guest-hosting today! Next chat is in two weeks, May 21: “CyberGIS vs Geoweb” hosted by @agaleszczynski. #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton 1:05pm @kyjts @joncinnamon @wilsonism teach a class entitled (coincidentally!) “Digital Mapping” @ukgeog geography.as.uky.edu/courses/digita… … #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:05pm Definitely add your thoughts to the #geowebwiki: geoweb.andrewshears.com/index.php?titl…. Help make it a source for #geoweb101 teaching mat’ls. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:06pm Don’t forget: add the #geowebchat feed to your calendar program and see all the upcoming chats: webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

@michael_d_gould 1:09pm @re_sieber to change philosophy & behavior we need solid argumentation not just free + cool demos! #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 1:12pm @re_sieber thanks all, for another great #geowebchat . Lots of potential change 4 better out there.

@joncinnamon 1:12pm Great! its important to remember the power of the geoweb is in its broad accessibility @JeremyCrampton @kyjts @wilsonism @ukgeog #geowebchat

@wilsonism 1:29pm @joncinnamon check out our class hashtag: #digimap #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:55pm We need a list of class hashtags. Add @re_sieber’s #neogeoweb RT @wilsonism: @joncinnamon check out our class hashtag: #digimap #geowebchat

@rushgeo 1:56pm Now maybe I’ll rem to login! RT @mappingmashups Don’t forget: add the #geowebchat feed to your calendar webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

@mikel 2:15pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups it’s the intermediate GIS class using OSM. they’ve done @hotosm work with @RBanick lately #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 2:21pm Geoweb wiki? RT @mappingmashups We need a list of class hashtags. Add @re_sieber’s #neogeoweb @wilsonism  @joncinnamon #digimap #geowebchat

@mhaklay 3:00pm @jeremy_morley HCI/ergon/HF should be part of any geo teaching? Or have we just lost hope in general geo usability? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 5:59pm .@AndrewShears @joncinnamon #geowebwiki geoweb.andrewshears.com/index.php?titl… & geoweb.andrewshears.com/index.php?titl… @re_sieber @wilsonism @JeremyCrampton #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 10:06am Reminder! In today’s #geowebchat (Tues Apr 16) at 12pm PDT (3pm EDT, 8pm BST) we will look back on #AAG2013. Join us! mappingmashups.net/2013/04/14/nex…

@mappingmashups 12:00pm Welcome to today’s #geowebchat everyone! We’ll be discussing #AAG2013 and related events from LA: #ironsheep, #geocode, etc.

@mappingmashups 12:01pm If you want to follow along, try: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat. If you want to ignore us, mute the hashtag #geowebchat (but I hope you don’t!)

@mappingmashups 12:02pm I suggested 4 main themes for today’s #geowebchat: mappingmashups.net/2013/04/14/nex… We can do 15 minutes for each, unless ppl have other preferences.

@JessiBreen 12:03pm Team f.e.t.a. in the house! #geowebchat

@bricker 12:03pm #AAG2013 + #ironsheep + #geocode = so much intellectually stimulating geonerdery fun!! #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:03pm I missed AAG – sounds like there were great sessions. Recap, please! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:04pm First topic: all the #geoweb sessions that were part of #AAG2013 itself. Which were your faves? How did they work together, etc? #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:04pm @mappingmashups like idea of geoweb conference; tho already 1 w/ that name. Include non-geographers, STSers, info scientists #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:05pm +1 on a #geoweb conference – and should include practitioners as well, human rights and aid workers, as well as academics #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm @USGSTNMRes The #geocode track was like a #geoweb conference within a conference. I thought it worked very well. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:06pm My fave @ #AAG2013 was the crisis mapping session #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:07pm @mappingmashups @USGSTNMRes #geocode track would have improved with consistent theme, names like cyberGIS #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:07pm @mappingmashups good idea to keep #geocode under the AAG tent. Too many conferences = too diffuse a community #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:07pm .@re_sieber mine as well! it was a great session #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:08pm I liked how some Friday presenters (I’m thinking @eknalprev in particular) were able to draw together many themes from prev days #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:08pm overall #AAG2013: w retiremt of dMark, cyberGIS & spatio-temporal reasoning, GIScience tribe lost a lot of steam #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:09pm @peterajohnson @mappingmashups Agreed. Travel money is tight, don’t make me choose! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @peterajohnson @mappingmashups @USGSTNMRes Let’s return to this discussion about how to do it next year at the end of this chat. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:11pm @re_sieber I would like to think that the steam era of GIScience is over – lots of new propulsion coming down the pipe! #geowebchat

@bricker 12:11pm @re_sieber Did the term/should the term cyberGIS retire too? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:11pm @re_sieber Do you think the GIScience/CyberGIS stream/tribe was engaging with the geoweb track, or oblivious? #geowebchat

@wilsonism 12:11pm #geowebchat I really enjoyed @ash_ecotechnics talk in the session on technology and memory.

@peterajohnson 12:11pm @bricker if you can make that happen…please do it! #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:12pm @bricker @re_sieber You have an opinion on that @geoplace? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:12pm @peterajohnson GIScience is the steampunk of geospatial research. #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:12pm @mappingmashups yes, but except 4 crisis session did not draw the interesting comp sci, STS, info sic talks #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:13pm @mappingmashups Outside of #bigdata overlap, #cyberGIS is even more oblivious to #geoweb, social issues than #GIScience #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:13pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber CyberGIS is withdrawal of GIScience into cloud to escape the burgeoning GeoWebbers #geowebchat

@geoplace 12:14pm @JessiBreen @bricker @re_sieber I shudder when I hear the prefix ‘cyber’ #geowebchat (and yes I’m also guilty of using it)

@mappingmashups 12:14pm #bigdata also made a big splash this year: Loved the social network analysis session #3625 w/ Petr, Ate, Joe, Monica, etc. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm @JessiBreen @bricker @geoplace #cyberGIS, despite protest, is software engineering; #GIScience is computer science/algorithms #geowebchat

@mhaklay 12:15pm @USGSTNMRes so did you feel that geoweb is the replacement of Critical GIS? #geowebchat

@skorasaurus 12:15pm any great reviews/wrap-ups of #AAG2013 w/ presentation links floating around ? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:15pm @geoplace @JessiBreen @re_sieber I hear a scifi robot voice when I read the prefix ‘cyber’ #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:16pm @geoplace @JessiBreen @bricker There were almost one #cyberGIS session per timeslot this #AAG2013. So hard to ignore #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:16pm Battle of the titans #bigdata panel Kitchin/Gorman/Batty/Goodchild/Barnes was great, but lacked enough conversation at the end #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:17pm @mappingmashups conversation was inaudible in the back. the right room would have done more miracles #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 12:18pm ditto RT @wilsonism: #geowebchat I really enjoyed @ash_ecotechnics talk in the session on technology and memory. #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:18pm @mappingmashups so sorry I missed #bigdata in favor of a $40 lunch! #geowebchat

@wilsonism 12:19pm #geowebchat Re: ‘cyber’. See @geoplace ‘Ethereal Alternate Dimensions of Cyberspace or Grounded Augmented Realities?’ ow.ly/k7MYw

@re_sieber 12:19pm @mappingmashups @geoplace: good debate on #bigdata w Kitchen, @SeanGorman, Batty, Goodchild, Barnes. Well-trodden &new battles #geowebchat

@aSheepinSpace 12:19pm @peterajohnson does also something cute die everytime you use the “cyber” prefix? #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:20pm Maybe #bigdata conversants can be talked into writing something up??? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:20pm @aSheepinSpace potentially…I’m sad/glad that my snarky commentary carried on IRL #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:20pm @skorasaurus No wrap-ups that I’ve seen yet. But you can trawl the #AAG2013 hashtag for links here: eventifier.co/event/aag2013/ #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:21pm thought the #bigdata panel was great, but room to small, hard to hear, not enough space. Someone said it was filmed? #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:21pm @bricker @geoplace @JessiBreen @re_sieber I read in a book on activism that the only people who should say “cyber” are academics #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:22pm @mhaklay @USGSTNMRes #geoweb is not complete overlap w CritGIS, although all geoweb presenters @ #AAG2013 did CritGIS #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:22pm @skorasaurus There’s also the “virtual geography convention” gathered up by @Catholicgauze: geographictravels.com/search/label/V… #aag2013 #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:22pm @cameranashraf @bricker @geoplace @re_sieber Why’s that? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:22pm @USGSTNMRes @mappingmashups CyberGIS is GIScientists hiding in the cloud of code #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:23pm So, let’s start to move on to question #2: about #ironsheep and any other unofficial #AAG2013 events. Was #ironsheep a success? #geowebchat

@geoplace 12:23pm @joncinnamon The big data panel was filmed and we’re also turning it into a themed issue of Dialogues in Human Geography #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 12:23pm #geowebchat I have the same reaction to ‘GIS’ when used in ref to geoweb/spatial media/VGI etc. as to the ‘cyber’ handle #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:24pm @JessiBreen @cameranashraf @bricker @geoplace The cyber in #cyberGIS reminds me of the ’80s and big cellphones for some reason #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm .@mattzook couldn’t join this chat, but he sent along some comments from the Thursday morning #ironsheep debrief session… #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:25pm @mappingmashups i didn’t hear about #ironsheep until after the event, so i think better advertising would be great #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:25pm @JessiBreen @bricker @geoplace @re_sieber because the term is dated and evocative of a certain way of seeing technology #geowebchat

@aSheepinSpace 12:25pm #ironsheep was educating to me. lots of fun as well #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:25pm @mappingmashups I enjoyed #ironsheep. Too much testosterone, though. #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:25pm @mappingmashups a consistent internet connection is preferable, but most teams pulled it together anyway. That’s a real test! #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:25pm @re_sieber @cameranashraf @bricker @geoplace Reminds me of my terrible 1st job as an AOL DigitalCity chat host.#geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm …some suggested #ironsheep needed to be more inviting to ppl uncertain of their skills. Maybe an “ironlamb” for newbies? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm …Also the space for #ironsheep was small this year, maybe a bigger space to let in more ppl? Maybe on-site at the conf, even? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:27pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups I was impressed with the number of women, but there can always be more. #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:27pm @geoplace brilliant, look forward to seeing it in Dialogues #geowebchat

@wilsonism 12:27pm #geowebchat #ironsheep was a success: thought into action (into thought).

@eknalprev 12:27pm @mappingmashups or “ironewe” to reduce the testosterone @re_sieber #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:28pm …someone (@geographerliz ?) suggested more #ironsheep events outside of AAG, possibly a DC event? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:28pm @eknalprev @mappingmashups @re_sieber No. I don’t want to be a female coder, just a coder. #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:28pm @mappingmashups iron lamb a great idea! I would come #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:28pm @mappingmashups, not a bad idea. #ironsheep does seem a bit cliquey, and aimed at only the geekiest of the map geeks #geowebchat

@spara 12:29pm @mappingmashups Perhaps copper lamb #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:30pm why not coordinate with other geography depts to have ironsheep clubs or meetups outside of aag? #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:30pm I would like a bit longer #ironsheep to see if more sense and/or creativity can be cooked from the data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:30pm @joncinnamon Although there is something to be said for exclusivity (if not cliquey) if it means things actually get done… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:31pm @joncinnamon …I am all for openness, but some argued that letting in too many spectators could hinder learning/experimentation #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:31pm @spara @mappingmashups For newbies, how ab #acousticlamb: mapping wo tech? #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:32pm @JessiBreen @eknalprev Yes, I don’t think separating the sexes would improve anything. Also, it’s IronSheep, not IronRam. #geowebchat

@bricker 12:33pm @eknalprev that is a good idea. or maybe two shorter events for reflection purposes but time is limited for everyone at #AAG #geowebchat

@cameranashraf 12:33pm or why not #ideasheep (terrible, i know) where we mashup ideas, theories, or conventions on tech and geography? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:34pm @re_sieber #sheepunplugged #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:34pm @mappingmashups true, guess it depends on if purpose is to achieve something, or just have fun, socialize etc. Ideally both! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:35pm What do you all think of having #ironsheep onsite at the conference? Perhaps even in the exhibits hall so people can watch? #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:35pm @cameranashraf @cameranashraf great idea, & I think it could be successful. I could introduce it to my “geoweb” students #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:36pm @mappingmashups definite good option to showcase #ironsheep to bigger audience #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:36pm @mappingmashups a provocative idea! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:36pm @bricker @eknalprev Speaking of #AAG2013, @bricker shud discuss her talk here @ #geowebchat on using #geowebchat for research #recursion

@agaleszczynski 12:36pm @joncinnamon alt.sheep (for the non-geekiest of the map geeks)? #geowebchat

@rushgeo 12:37pm @mappingmashups it would mean no beer or food, and possible schedule conflicts. Good outreach opportunity, though. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:37pm Sounds like there’s enthusiastic support for #ironsheepDC from @SeanGorman @geographerliz @weismana @JessiBreen (adding #geowebchat tag)

@EmmaSlager 12:38pm Exhibit hall could be great but I think you’d have to find a way to limit distractions for participants or not much wld get done #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:38pm One output of #ironsheep was a flood of drunken tweets hitting the #AAG2013 hashtag. Any thoughts/regrets about that? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:38pm @mappingmashups @SeanGorman Could there be exciting datasets to work with? and can it be in July? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:39pm Q3 about twitter use at #AAG2013. It was the most twitter-active AAG so far. Did that change how you experienced it? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:40pm @mappingmashups Happily, the bo peep team was parsimonious w tweets ab its project #Gollum #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:40pm @mappingmashups that would defintiely scare off the less experienced. Depends what your goals are. #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:40pm Yes! See u in Santa Barbara next year! RT @agaleszczynski: @joncinnamon alt.sheep (for the non-geekiest of the map geeks)? #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:40pm @mappingmashups Just that my spiderman tweet was done so poorly. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:40pm I’d like to know about how education plays a role with the geoweb community. #geowebchat Each year brings new trendy topics – some that last

@mappingmashups 12:40pm @re_sieber @bricker @eknalprev I’m certainly thinking about today’s chat differently after our presentation on #geowebchat at #AAG2013

@SeanGorman 12:40pm @mappingmashups @geographerliz it would be cool to get govt agencies to bring their data as part of #IronSheepDC #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:41pm @mappingmashups I do find it strange that the tweets have been archived for posterity. Some things should be forgotten (re: RKit #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:41pm @A_C_Robinson @bricker talked about use of hashtags as research method #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 12:42pm all we need is a sshrc grant to fund it RT @joncinnamon: Yes! See u in Santa Barbara next year! #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:42pm @mappingmashups Did anyone actually get drunk? I had one beer & then they were gone. Not stoked I was tagged “chugging” it. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:42pm @SeanGorman @mappingmashups @geographerliz #ironsheepDC Don’t worry, we’re government. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:43pm @A_C_Robinson Could think of #ironsheep as a kind of hands-on education. Learning/sharing the tools is key for many #geowebbers #geowebchat

@EmmaSlager 12:44pm @mappingmashups def diff in geoweb sessions and others re norms of cell use/twit activity-saw some miffed presenters & audiences #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:44pm @peterajohnson It’s hard to search old tweets, but I’m always aware they’re permanently public. Library of Congress saves ‘em. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:45pm @peterajohnson Ur not only archived 4posterity but bc u were in @bricker’s slides u were @ #AAG2013 even tho u didn’t attend #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:45pm Do people have an expectation of privacy or merely obscurity when they use twitter? Did @theAAG have an obligation to warn us? #geowebchat

@bricker 12:46pm @EmmaSlager @mappingmashups fuzzy times in terms of social etiquette and twitter #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:46pm RT @wisemana: @mappingmashups I think on site at AAG is a great idea #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:47pm Observation – last 10yrs = GIS, Geovisualization, Geovisual Analytics, LBS, Web Mapping, FOSS4G, CyberGIS, GeoWeb, GeoHCI, etc. #geowebchat

@bricker 12:47pm @re_sieber I asked @peterajohnson and the others who were quoted for permission! #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:47pm @mappingmashups well, there is a pic of you having a beer on the eventifier landing page. Nothing bad, but still… #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 12:48pm @mappingmashups @bricker this is kind of dated (bit.ly/zCuLt) but beware ‘tweeting your way in and out of tenure’? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:48pm @peterajohnson As long as everyone else in the photo looks worse than me, I’m cool with it. :) #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:50pm A future research topic? RT @bricker: @EmmaSlager @mappingmashups fuzzy times in terms of social etiquette and twitter #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:50pm ack! look up and I’m 50 minutes into #geowebchat. sorry gang, lots of post-aag paperwork

@mappingmashups 12:51pm I think each of my four Qs could fill a full #geowebchat! We can come back to talking about twitter another day. But now, Q4: next steps?

@JessiBreen 12:51pm @joeeckert I was wondering where the rest of Team f.e.t.a. was hiding. #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:51pm @mappingmashups I think only if you don’t understand how Twitter works. It’s information anyone can see and save. #geowebchat #sharewisely

@mappingmashups 12:52pm Q4: what should the #geoweb presence look like at #AAG2014? A preconference? Another #geocode track? #CyberGIS grudge match? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:52pm @mappingmashups I quite liked the #geowebchat pre-conf idea.

@CraigMDalton 12:53pm @JessiBreen @joeeckert #geowebchat I just got here- I teach untill 3:30

@re_sieber 12:53pm @joncinnamon @bricker @EmmaSlager @mappingmashups ‘fuzzy times ITO social etiquette & #geowebchat twitter’ I thought you meant too much beer

@USGSTNMRes 12:53pm @mappingmashups PARTAY in Tampa!!!! #aag2014 #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:54pm @mappingmashups @ #AAG2014 I want #cagematch between #geoweb and #cyberGIS #geowebchat. 2 enter, 1 leaves.

@EmmaSlager 12:54pm @mappingmashups GRUDGE MATCH! But really, how could the two be better integrated? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:54pm no need to get hung up on the (dated) cyberGIS term; was used as it was fundable under NSF cyberinfrastructure prog. #geowebchat

@ge01d 12:54pm @re_sieber @bricker That’s how I read it at first too #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:55pm @mappingmashups how about a #cyberGIS vs. #geoweb team foosball tournament? Winner takes “all”? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:55pm +1 RT @joeeckert: @mappingmashups I quite liked the #geowebchat pre-conf idea. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm Many have talked about a preconference. We must make sure we work together and nobody duplicates effort. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:55pm @joeeckert @mappingmashups @ #AAG2014, let’s have a #geowebchat pre-unconference

@agaleszczynski 12:55pm as long as it’s in a space with temp equilibrium RT @joeeckert: @mappingmashups I quite liked the #geowebchat pre-conf idea. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:56pm cybergis and geoweb are orthogonal; unless you refer to opposing personalities :) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm @re_sieber An unconference, huh? Interesting. Competing impulses between more or less formality for the preconf. #geowebchat

@SterlingGIS 12:56pm @mappingmashups Nice talk on map gardening at #AAG2013. Maybe good exercise for undergrads? Or shouldn’t be a required activity? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:56pm @re_sieber you can be the un-chair…;) #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 12:56pm @re_sieber Yep, easily taken out of context, hence #sharewisely. I assume everything on the web can be used against me. :( #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:56pm @michael_d_gould You’re taking our fun away. We obsess/fight ab terms in geography! #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 12:57pm @michael_d_gould expand on this #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 12:57pm @mappingmashups preconf a nice idea, but might restrict who can come. sessions in AAG allows more to come, plus non geowebbers #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:57pm somewhat hilarious that we’re thinking about the implications of a beer-in-hand in comparison to the wildness that is AAG #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:57pm @re_sieber I think some ppl (I won’t name names) favored a preconference because it could be more rigorous. So not unconference. #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:58pm @USGSTNMRes cybergis is big data, hi performance geoprocessing, not incompatible w backend of geoweb stuff. #geowebchat

@SeanGorman 12:58pm @michael_d_gould judging the sessions there are quite a few differences as well – computational, methodological and literature #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:59pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber It could be Survivor-themed. Vote each other off the island. Or maybe just a pool party. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:59pm I also won’t name names on this either, but the idea of a geoweb specialty group has also been floated. Thoughts? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 12:59pm @re_sieber ok, well, then make a grudge match on a Florida swamp fanboat !! #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 12:59pm pre/un-conferences work best when they’re small …. have we gotten too big? #geowebchat

@joeeckert 12:59pm @mappingmashups also would be interested in #geowebchat specialty group…but what of GIS / cyberGIS? too much?

@JessiBreen 1:00pm @joeeckert AAG is how I make up for those Spring Break trips I could never afford to go on as an undergrad. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm Sounds like “#CyberGIS != #Geoweb?” should be a future #geowebchat topic. Anyone want to host it?

@USGSTNMRes 1:00pm @JessiBreen @mappingmashups @re_sieber or a BEACH PARTY!!! #geowebchat

@EmmaSlager 1:00pm @joeeckert it seems like too much…
#geowebchat

@joncinnamon 1:00pm Some say its ALL we do! RT @re_sieber: @michael_d_gould You’re taking our fun away. We obsess/fight ab terms in geography! #geowebchat

@SeanGorman 1:00pm @mappingmashups heard similar discussions as well re: specialty group – also discussed if there is a better term than “geoweb” #geowebchat

@geographerliz 1:01pm @SeanGorman @mappingmashups since I’m on a mission to free up as much data as possible, definitely a good extension #IronSheepDC #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 1:01pm @mappingmashups what would difference be with speciality group vs. a track under GIScience? #geowebchat

@A_C_Robinson 1:01pm @michael_d_gould Also, recall folks establishing neocartography by saying it was anti-cartography. A fight where none is needed. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:01pm @michael_d_gould #geowebchat ters are definitely orthogonal, not georegistered nor rectified, skewed (& any other term I can dredge up)

@mappingmashups 1:01pm @SeanGorman No, there is no better term than geoweb! #geowebchat

@joeeckert 1:01pm @EmmaSlager and if only to devil’s A myself, i think we are fairly different from GIS / cyberGIS. should we be? #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 1:01pm @mappingmashups We should engage some CyberGISers for this #geowebchat

@joncinnamon 1:02pm Really good question. RT @agaleszczynski: pre/un-conferences work best when they’re small …. have we gotten too big? #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 1:02pm @mappingmashups wld love to host this one (cyber)GIS != goeoweb #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 1:02pm I like debates where one takes both sides: own and strawman (sic) #geowebchat

@joeeckert 1:02pm @agaleszczynski I wasn’t there — are we much bigger than the VGI pre-conf in Seattle? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm @A_C_Robinson @michael_d_gould I certainly wondered why we would inflict the term “neocartography” on ourselves after #neogeo #geowebchat

@SeanGorman 1:03pm @geographerliz @mappingmashups would be great to let loose the data around a focused exercise and diversity of approaches! #geowebchat

@EmmaSlager 1:03pm Word. RT @USGSTNMRes @mappingmashups We should engage some CyberGISers for this #geowebchat #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 1:03pm YES MT @joeeckert: i think we are fairly different from GIS / cyberGIS. should we be? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:03pm @mappingmashups At least we could label all geoweb, geocode sessions as #geowebchat. That would provide the conference within a conference

@joeeckert 1:03pm @agaleszczynski couldn’t agree more. :) #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 1:04pm @re_sieber don’t forget fuzzy and imprecise #geowebchat

@agaleszczynski 1:04pm @joeeckert way bigger than VGI pre-con #geowebchat

@kennethfield 1:04pm it was only a matter of time before neocart decided it was better to be a part than apart @A_C_Robinson: @michael_d_gould #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:04pm @mappingmashups I’ll host “#CyberGIS v #Geoweb, provided that both terms last out the year! #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 1:04pm Gotta run, but great turn out today – lots of enthusiasm. This is a great tribe to be a part of (no matter what label you use) #geowebchat

@spara 1:04pm @geographerliz @SeanGorman @mappingmashups Yay data liberation #Geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:04pm We’ve hit the end of our #geowebchat. Will definitely revisit two topics in later chats: “CyberGIS and Geoweb” and “twitter within academia”

@mappingmashups 1:05pm Any last thoughts about #AAG2013? #geowebchat

@michael_d_gould 1:05pm @re_sieber but seriously I encourage you (someone) to run that session in Tampa. not enough real debate these. #geowebchat

@spara 1:06pm cybersocialmobilegeospatial is the future #geowebchat

@USGSTNMRes 1:06pm @mappingmashups thanks! nice chat #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo 1:06pm @spara forgot #cloud #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:06pm @mappingmashups We need to take opportunities for upping #geowebchat presence as #GIScience is finding (flailing?) its way post-Goodchild

@michael_d_gould 1:06pm @mappingmashups #AAG2013 was great for getting folks together, but backchannel makes it 10x better. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:07pm As always, I want more guest hosts and topic ideas! Volunteer before you get volunteered! #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 1:07pm @spara That’s gonna get hard to fit in a tweet. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 1:07pm @re_sieber aka neo vs. paleo, round two? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:08pm Don’t forget that we have a new webcal link so you never miss a #geowebchat again! webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

@cameranashraf 1:08pm many thanks for the excellent #geowebchat! it was my first and i hope to attend more.

@kennethfield 1:08pm here here! RT @kirkgoldsberry: just call everything “Mapping” again. #geowebchat /// let’s stop making up new words for existing practices.

@re_sieber 1:08pm @mappingmashups I’ll host next week. I’d like #geoweb: ‘that sh1t is hard to teach’: getting our colleagues to appreciate it #geowebchat

@geographerliz 1:09pm @SeanGorman @mappingmashups so much potential for some #geoglobaldomination awesomeness – great to add in some of the analytics! #geowebchat

@joeeckert 1:09pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups already interested. completely up my alley. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:09pm @peterajohnson #CyberGIS v #Geoweb: neo GIScience v neogeo #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:10pm And also many people at #AAG2013 weren’t aware of our subdisciplinary announcement list geoweb-r: bit.ly/geowebr #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:11pm @re_sieber Okay! You get May 7. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:12pm Next #geowebchat is in 3 weeks: May 7. Host is @re_sieber: “#geoweb: ‘that sh1t is hard to teach’: getting our colleagues to appreciate it”

@sophiabliu 1:12pm Wud be great to have more local #Ironsheep events at mapping parties to gain momentum then have bigger ones at conferences. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:13pm The transcript for today’s #geowebchat will be posted at mappingmashups.net/geowebchat in a few hours or days. You have been warned!

@eknalprev 1:14pm Marking my calendar! Next #geowebchat 7/5 Host @re_sieber: “#geoweb: ‘that sh1t is hard to teach’: getting our colleagues to appreciate it”

* First, there was a wealth of official presentations about the geoweb, including such topics as crowdsourcing, geosocial media, big data, CyberGIS, neocartography, and so on. Many of these were part of the #GEO/CODE track, while others were independently organized. Which presentations made the greatest impact on you? Which sessions might we have missed? Let’s compare notes!

* Second, the 2nd annual #IronSheep competition was a great success, and was partially debriefed in a session on Thursday morning. We can continue the discussion in Tuesday’s #geowebchat: what skills were learned at #IronSheep, what connections were made, and how can the event be improved upon next year?

* Third, there were a handful of sessions and presentations (and many offline and backchannel discussions) that engaged with the role of twitter in academic research and conferences. What is the etiquette of live-tweeting during someone’s talk, or posting photographs of someone’s slides? Also, should we expect that conference tweets will be permanently available? Some of us were surprised to learn that all the #AAG2013 tweets have been publicly archived at Eventifier

* Finally, there was a lot of talk about how to build on this year’s meeting as we move forward, particularly with an eye toward the next AAG meeting in Tampa in 2014. Should there be another geoweb track like #GEO/CODE next year? Should there be an annual geoweb preconference?

Everyone is encouraged to join this #geowebchat, whether you attended AAG2013 or did not. This will be a great opportunity for those who didn’t attend to ask questions of attendees.

The chat will be held on Tuesday, April 16, at the usual time: 12pm PDT / 3pm EDT / 8pm BST.

In more administrative news, at the suggestion of Andrew Turner, I have created a google calendar that will include all upcoming geowebchats. You can easily add the geowebchat calendar to your own calendar program using the following iCal link:

webcal link: webcal://bit.ly/geowebchatcal

Subscribe to the calendar and never miss a #geowebchat again!

Looking forward to chatting with you!

@mappingmashups Mar 29, 10:25am Between the Parrot and the Predator: the present & future of civilian & military #drones mappingmashups.net/2013/03/29/bet… #geowebchat Tue Apr 2 12p PT

@mappingmashups Mar 31, 2:13pm MT @drones: Animal rights group in Australia to deploy #drones to monitor animal abuse on private farms smh.com.au/technology/sci… #geowebchat

@JeremyCrampton Mar 31, 2:26pm Relevant to #geowebchat on @drones on Tuesday? “Dirty Wars” doc @ggreenwald gu.com/p/3ezg8/tw @jeremyscahill

@re_sieber Mar 31, 8:37pm In anticipation of our #geowebchat on drones: the anti-drone hoodie guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2…

@mappingmashups Apr 01, 11:57am New #drone acct to follow: @DroneMurmur. “An online festival of drone culture, spanning the month of June 2013.” via @Interdome #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 11:08am @mappingmashups @Liberationtech @conor64 there are already a few municipalities which have banned drones ex Charlottesville VA. #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 11:13am Is there a standard navigation tool used by most drones? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:56am Some readings on #drones: guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/… aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 11:57am More readings on #drones: nytimes.com/2013/03/18/bus… theatlanticwire.com/technology/201… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:01pm #geowebchat is starting now. Today we’re discussing #drones: mappingmashups.net/2013/03/29/bet…

@AlJavieera 12:01pm today’s #geowebchat is on drones. tune in.

@demilit 12:01pm Now – #geowebchat: Between the Parrot and the Predator: the present and future of civilian and military drones – j.mp/Z6E1n2

@mappingmashups 12:02pm If you want to join the conversation, include the hashtag #geowebchat in your tweets. If you don’t want to listen, you can mute the tag.

@mappingmashups 12:02pm You can also use a site like tweetchat tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat to follow along with #geowebchat.

@re_sieber 12:03pm Examples of drone usage: prec ag, safety&inspection, replc’g pilots, surveillance, lethal force #geowebchat nytimes.com/2013/03/18/bus…

@mappingmashups 12:04pm The title for today’s chat “Between the Parrot and the Predator” is meant to emphasize the range of #drones (UAVs) that exist… #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:05pm eff.org/deeplinks/2013…
Map of where drones are authorized. More future red dots? #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:05pm Drones & “Precision Agriculture” j.mp/Z6EHJ4 (of course, I don’t buy it.) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm …as @re_sieber notes. Is it just killer #drones that get all the attention? Or are they still not getting enough attention? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:06pm What’s driving anxiety ab #drones? ##geourveillance, distantiated destruction, black helicopters? #geowebchat

@bobws 12:07pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber I have found that 2 things matter: size and a visible camera. These two, tend to freak people out. #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:08pm Drones in ag: the development of land that’s not farmed in the present, while fertile land will be turned into suburbs. #geowebchat

@hughstimson 12:09pm Looks like the #geowebchat crew have started this week’s chat. Subject is drones! Tune in here if you’re interested: tweetchat.com/room/geowebchat

@derektrobinson 12:09pm recreational usage = easy, research with #drones != easy, SFOC needed for from transport Canada. No monitoring of rec use… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:09pm @mappingmashups In US, anxiety drivers ab #drones I think is #geosurveillance; worldwide, it’s remotely sensed destruction #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:09pm @bobws @re_sieber “luckily” the sizes are getting smaller and cameras less noticeable… W/ tiny #drones will people care less? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:10pm Are cheap drones the downside to the increasing availability of geospatial tools? Must we accept in exchange for APIs? #geowebchat

@rburhum 12:10pm @bobws Or make people like me really happy #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:10pm “size and a visible camera. These two, tend to freak people out” @bobws @mappingmashups @re_sieber well, also weapons #drones #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:11pm @mappingmashups @bobws sf lit is full of anxieties ab nano #drones #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:12pm Question: should drones be licensed? For rec use? #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:12pm System Failures: “a wall between the watched and the watchers, those who are heard and those who aren’t” j.mp/N6iqpX #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:12pm Drones for science and GIS have tremendous potential… if it weren’t for the other pesky associations #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:13pm @peterajohnson Must we accept changes in hardware as a result of changes in software? #drones follow APIs #geowebchat

@bobws 12:13pm @mappingmashups size and weapons aside, I think people will care for some time to come. #geowebchat

@rburhum 12:13pm So many positive use cases in fact, that we now have Meetups about drones popping up bit.ly/XolqZv #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:14pm The problem might also be the word “drone”… kinda says “tool of the state”? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:14pm @mizmay Can we put #drones back into Pandora’s Box? Should we reject drones for science bc they can be repurposed for war? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:15pm @peterajohnson US gov is working on integrating drones into US airspace. May involve licensing, registration of flight paths. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:15pm @re_sieber can we pick and choose tech to be ‘democratized’? No. But need to be critical of implications of both #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:15pm @mizmay how does who controls the drones account for people’s reactions to them? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:15pm @re_sieber can we reject any tech just because of military use? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:16pm @mizmay Did GIS lead to #drones? GIS definitely led to rampant political redistricting #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:16pm @re_sieber No way! I want a drone. don’t we all? I don’t need a gun or even video on mine though. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:17pm Seriously, what we were talking about remote-controlled hovercraft instead of drones? Oh wait, we are #geowebchat

@derektrobinson 12:17pm #drones licensing could be good… but would this mean that you could just pick them up at trade shows? … #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:18pm @peterajohnson @re_sieber I guess not since we are on the internet right now…. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:18pm @mizmay You make a good point about terminology. Mostly we’re talking about Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:18pm @peterajohnson Agreed, but we too easily hide in safety of our Crit Theory & don’t take stands against negs of #drones, #bigdata #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:19pm @mizmay @re_sieber I like drones for delivering me tacos! Not dropping bombs… #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:19pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson there was a charmed period when you could assume that you were free to fly a drone @ < 400 ft #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:20pm @mizmay @peterajohnson True #Nod2DARPA #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:20pm @mizmay Technically, a #drone is self-piloted, but in common usage drone means UAV, remotely piloted by a human. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:21pm @mappingmashups UAV is better than drone, but I think we can do better…. something without an acronym #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:21pm so, seems like licensing is a necessary solution here. What about the $299 Parrot? Where is the line between toy and ? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:23pm So far, no drones attacks have been happening on their own (theonion.com/articles/sweat…). Is robot AI a separate debate to have? #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:24pm Has anyone here used a drone for some cool geo project? I have not yet… a friend is using one for ground truthing a RS project #geowebchat

@bobws 12:24pm @peterajohnson This is the crux of it and I dont know the answer- “Where is the line between a toy and drone?” #geowebchat

@gpe 12:24pm Individual drones gathering data for a central authority is one thing. A swarm of semi-autonomous drones is quite another. #geowebchat

@gpe 12:25pm We are just now building vocabularies to address the former. But the latter is on the not-to-distant horizon. #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:25pm sorry i’m late, nice to see @rburhum and skypilot @bobws here this time around #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:25pm RT @mpmckenna8: @mizmay @re_sieber I like drones for delivering me tacos! Not dropping bombs… #geowebchat cc @TacoCopter

@re_sieber 12:26pm Mult sectors in #geosurveillance as well: private sector-consumers, public sector-traffic,inspection &umm, monitor troublemakers #geowebchat

@rburhum 12:26pm @mizmay I know @bdiscoe has been playing with a #drone for geo-funness #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:26pm @bobws presumably the difference is in the territory that the drone/toy is covering (like RC planes?). Over a field no one cares #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:27pm @peterajohnson why does licensing seem necessary? to track nefarious purposes or avoid crashes? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:28pm @mizmay licensing is a standard Canadian solution to any problem ;) #geowebchat

@bobws 12:28pm @peterajohnson I think that is definitely one piece to the puzzle. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:28pm @mizmay but seriously, licensing would just provide a paper trail and identity in the event of problems, yes? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:28pm If #drone anxiety is ab #geosurveillance then ppl should be far more concerned ab the breadcrumbs of #bigdata #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:28pm @rburhum @bdiscoe oh but he’s on G+ (??), well what is he doing with, I’ll say UAVs? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:29pm @mizmay @peterajohnson Of course, “If drones are outlawed, only outlaws will fly drones.” It won’t be hard to build your own… #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:30pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson … another friend of mine built a copwatch drone…. the tricky part is getting it to hover #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:31pm @re_sieber We are accustomed to being surveilled by CCTV in all public places… or has the anxiety simply been forgotten? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:32pm @re_sieber But #drones can certainly be more invasive, can see into your windows or backyard, etc. #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:32pm @re_sieber I learned from drone hearing: Whether data or drone, the problem is who has those, and can they throw you in prison? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:32pm US has lots of guns. Won’t we need laws to protect #drones? Don’t ppl have rt to privacy if no warrant? blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/02… #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:33pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber Cameras on both are getting way more advanced in zoom as well as night vision etc. #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:33pm @mappingmashups CCTV aren’t likely to buzz you, cast a scary moving shadow, fall out of the sky #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:34pm @mappingmashups I don’t think ppl realize in N America that they’re being surveilled in public & can be tracked w cellphones #geowebchat

@gpe 12:34pm A single (passive) drone-as-’remote eyeball’ is far less worrisome than an (active) integrated system of drones-as-’smart wall.’ #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:34pm Nearest drone (to me) from @EFF map: NASA Ames Type of Drone: Unknown Status: Active Comments: Still waiting for records #geowebchat

@spara 12:35pm @re_sieber Drone ammo luckygunner.com/12ga-3-uranium… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:35pm @erictheise Hadn’t thought of that: #drones used specifically to terrify & threaten, not surveil. They might want to be seen. #geowebchat

@gpe 12:36pm My thinking here is informed by Stephenson’s description of the ‘dog pod grid’ in Diamond Age (pg 55): books.google.com/books?id=aAV6w… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:37pm @spara depleted uranium to repel #drones. Stunnned. #geowebchat

@spara 12:38pm @re_sieber It was an April Fool’s #Geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:39pm @gpe This “future catching up w present” is 1 reason there’s a crisis in sf. We can’t anticipate other side of the sinugularity #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:40pm Given what it’s used for, should we teach drone tech to students? #geowebchat #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:40pm @spara Relieved but preppers are talking ab repelling drones americanpreppersnetwork.net/viewtopic.php?… #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:41pm 12 ga., 3″ Uranium Drone Load, “anti-drone shotgun loads.” j.mp/Z6JlXG via #geowebchat @spara

@spara 12:42pm Surveillance is not the only use for drones. They can be used for precision ag or other application that requires aerial sensor #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:43pm The word ” #drone” me is pejorative anyway (think Borg, i.e. not human) #geowebchat #geowebchat

@gpe 12:43pm .@re_sieber A proto-’dog pod grid’ is already here, though. It just needs DARPA money thrown at it. youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:43pm The @EFF #drone map eff.org/deeplinks/2013… has so many “type unknown”. Do we need distributed #dronewatch? #dronespotting? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:43pm @AndrewShears GIS programs should include mobile tech, flying or otherwise. Should GIS programs teach #geosurveillance, CCTV? #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:43pm @AndrewShears DARPA has a program called Mentor that teaches drones to kids. Other branches doing same. #geowebchat j.mp/zIdRpz

@spara 12:44pm @re_sieber @AndrewShears yes, GIS programs should have more content on sensors #Geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:44pm #Drones = opposite direction rest of tech is taking. Most tech integrating w body (cyborgism), drone removes it. #geowebchat #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:45pm When we teach mapping, we also teach ethics. RT @spara: @re_sieber yes, GIS programs should have more content on sensors #geowebchat

@gpe 12:45pm .@AndrewShears I say definitely. Lest we cede the skies (more than we already have) to authoritarianism. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:45pm @AndrewShears True about trend of cyborgism, but the promise of telepresence has been right around the corner. #drones are that. #geowebchat

@spara 12:45pm People should know more about how data is collected and it’s fitness for use for a particular application #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:45pm @spara does it come down to a) who’s flying it b) over what and if a) doesn’t own (?) b) then c) what is the purpose? #geowebchat

@vtcraghead 12:45pm #geowebchat FWIW, the guy with the parrot&gopro was the life of the pond hockey tournament: m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=XKhJ…

@re_sieber 12:46pm @AndrewShears Wait, are we discriminating against #drones? Need more drone fiction #geowebchat thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/20… @dynamicsymmetry

@AndrewShears 12:46pm By de-integrating drone from body, they become scarier because drones have no ethics. #geowebchat #geowebchat

@spara 12:47pm @erictheise More concerned about the data bc I think other sensors will be attached to drones #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:47pm @spara i couldn’t fault weyerhauser droning over their forests or farmers droning over their land holdings do gather stats #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:47pm @re_sieber @AndrewShears @dynamicsymmetry Well, I tried to invite @SelfAwareROOMBA, but she/he/it couldn’t make it. #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:47pm American Preppers Network – The Drone near you j.mp/Z6JXwi via #geowebchat

@spara 12:48pm @AndrewShears Technology has no ethics, people do #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:48pm @AndrewShears Your Google Glass could link to your personal “eye in the sky”. Voila, #drones are part of the cyborg #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:48pm Fascinating! RT @re_sieber: Are we discriminating against #drones? Need more drone fiction #geowebchat thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/20… #geowebchat

@rburhum 12:48pm All this talk about drones is going to, very soon, make me spend money in something I don’t need #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:48pm Did Berkeley ban drones? I know it was proposed…. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:49pm @AndrewShears But when we’re talking about UAVs, it is a strange telepresence. On UAV pilots and PTSD: nytimes.com/2013/02/23/us/… #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:49pm @rburhum I don’t know why we don’t all have drones already… but I’m still certain we need a different word. #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:49pm Exactly what I’m getting at. Separating tech from user separates tech from ethics. RT @spara Technology has no ethics, people do #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:49pm @AndrewShears @re_sieber My collective wrote a fiction about drones, DARPA, and biomimesis for The State j.mp/OOR1zF #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:50pm @re_sieber I’m torn between “scary” and “I want one!” #geowebchat

@erictheise 12:50pm @rburhum you’ll never get that 1974 caddy off the ground #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:50pm Not sure the status of east bay drone activism. Follow @nomby. RT @mizmay: Did Berkeley ban drones? I know it was proposed…. #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:50pm @mizmay Account to follow for that: @nomby [Not Over My Back Yard] #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:50pm Me too! RT @JessiBreen @re_sieber I’m torn between “scary” and “I want one!” #geowebchat #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:51pm Any drone work that integrates their use with social / env justice? That’s where I’m taking my stuff with it. #geowebchat #geowebchat

@AlJavieera 12:51pm @mizmay @mappingmashups Berkeley rejects proposal to ban drones – DIY Drones j.mp/Z6KjDn #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:51pm @AndrewShears @spara Just wait till #drones have AI. Then they can have ethics #AsimovsLaws #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:52pm @AndrewShears @JessiBreen Me too: #needDrone #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:53pm @AndrewShears @PublicLab has described why they don’t use drones, the lack of connection to the user doesn’t work with… #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:53pm @AndrewShears their idea of community. The balloon provides a direct link to the user. #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:54pm @AndrewShears I’d love to hear about somebody who uses drones for EJ! #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:54pm Agreed 100% “Drone” was pejorative before. Now even more. RT @mizmay @rburhum … but Im still certain we need a different word. #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm @re_sieber @AndrewShears @JessiBreen Let me know if you buy a drone after this chat. Maybe #geowebchat can get some sponsorship $$. :)

@JessiBreen 12:55pm @mappingmashups I’ve already got one. :) #geowebchat

@spara 12:55pm Drones can be fun. This was filmed at an event I attended. youtube.com/watch?v=yuumji… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:55pm @JessiBreen Interesting. I wonder if @PublicLabs would approve of @re_sieber’s scary scenario #drone + #GoogleGlass #geowebchat #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:56pm @AndrewShears Animals, habitats don’t have moral agency in env ethics. They can have moral standing. Could apply this to #drones #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:56pm @JessiBreen That’s my intention at my new position this fall ( @mansfieldU). Hoping to start geoweb + EJ MA program. #geowebchat #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:56pm @JessiBreen @AndrewShears There’s the cases of drone use to monitor environmental violations. In AUS: theatlanticwire.com/technology/201… #geowebchat

@rburhum 12:57pm @erictheise bit.ly/10wpYZc #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:58pm @JessiBreen @AndrewShears We proposed this to group in Panama: tribes could use #drones to monitor state-sponsored LIDAR work #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:58pm @re_sieber Geez, now that’s crossing into my stuff on animal geo…. #worldscollide #mindblown #everythingisrelated #geowebchat #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 12:58pm @AndrewShears Sweet! I’m looking at the combo of neocartographies, EJ and citsci for my dissertation research. We should talk! #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:59pm @AndrewShears @JessiBreen @mansfieldU “geoweb + EJ MA program” So cool: congrats #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:59pm Well, we are reaching the end of another busy #geowebchat. Time to remove your anti-drone hoodies… guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2… #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:59pm Ahh, I’m an #asshole. Apparently you don’t have to type the hashtag on TweetChat. #loser #moron #technofool #geowebchat

@JessiBreen 1:00pm @mappingmashups With the tinfoil top, of course!
#geowebchat

@AndrewShears 1:00pm @mappingmashups Hey now, we like drones! We just don’t like how they’re being used! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:01pm Next #geowebchat will be in 2 weeks: Apr 16, same time. We will debrief the #geoweb goodness from #AAG2013, such as #IronSheep and #GEOCODE

@nomby 1:01pm There is no Berkeley drone ban yet, but there will be a drone town hall on May 1. @mappingmashups @mizmay @AlJavieera #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 1:01pm @re_sieber @JessiBreen Thanks kindly, I’m really excited about it! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm For all the #geowebchat slots in May and onward, I’m always looking for topic suggestions and guest hosts.

@nomby 1:03pm There are 3 Bky drone subcommittees, 2 seem to favor a ban. But fire subcmte favors drones. @mappingmashups @mizmay @AlJavieera #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:03pm Thanks everybody for joining! Talk to you next time. #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 1:05pm @mappingmashups @EFF would be cool if there was a data sharing requirement for drone use. #geowebchat #opendata

@alexqgb 1:10pm Organizations are already detached from ethics. Drones operating under organizational “control” are the real nexus of fear. #geowebchat

Meanwhile, the cost of consumer drones has been dropping rapidly, with small remotely-controlled quadcopters like the “Parrot” AR.Drone retailing for only a few hundred dollars. The easy availability of civilian drones poses a new set of privacy concerns, as well as difficult challenges in managing an increasingly crowded airspace.

In our next chat, we will discuss the full range of drone technology, from large military UAVs to small civilian drones, including both remotely-piloted vehicles and the growing possibility of autonomous, self-guiding craft. We will discuss the frightening violent and surveillant aspects of drones, as well as the potential positive uses, including the application of drones for DIY aerial mapping or grassroots monitoring of environmental violations.

Join us at the usual time: 12pm PDT, 3pm EDT, 8pm BST, on Tuesday April 2, on twitter at the hashtag #geowebchat.

As always, everyone is welcome, and please forward this announcement to anyone who might be interested. After the chat, the discussion transcript will be posted here: http://mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

Some further readings:

“Rand Paul filibusters the domestic drone”: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/03/201339114442314519.html

“Domestic drones and their unique dangers”: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/29/domestic-drones-unique-dangers

“Domestic Drones Stir Imaginations, and Concerns”: www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/business/domestic-drones-on-patrol.html

“Using Drones to Capture Environmental Violations Makes Perfect Sense”: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2012/01/using-drones-capture-environmental-violations-makes-perfect-sense/47872/

@mappingmashups Mar 17, 7:26pm Next #geowebchat: Hackathons, what are they good for? Join us Tues 12pm PDT 3pm EDT 7pm GMT mappingmashups.net/2013/03/17/nex… Please RT!

@mappingmashups 12:01pm Have you ever organized or participated in a #hackathon? Tell us your story! Join the discussion at the hashtag #geowebchat starting now!

@mappingmashups 12:01pm Welcome to #geowebchat everyone. Today we’re talking about #hackathons, #hackdays, #hackfests…

@AngharadStone 12:02pm Good Evening #geowebchat – may I start off with the winner of the recent @envhack winner “Polish off a penguin” penguin.hodgetastic.com/index.html

@markiliffe 12:03pm @mappingmashups we started as a small community and ended up deploying with the Ugandan Government and World Bank #geowebchat

@AndrewShears 12:03pm @mappingmashups I’ve never done any of the above, so I’m a lurker today. #geowebchat

@spara 12:04pm @mappingmashups In my experience, hackathons are good for generating ideas #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:04pm @AngharadStone @envhack Nice “polish off a penguin” project. Good example of the role that designers have in many hackathons #geowebchat

@rob_nason 12:04pm Taking part in my first #geowebchat! Will we start trending this evening!

@re_sieber 12:04pm I participated in #hacktaville, here in Montreal #geowebchat

@uwajibikaji 12:05pm we’ve organized a hack for our SEMA research in Tanzania last year #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:06pm I should also point out that we discussed hackathons in our #geowebchat last month: mappingmashups.net/2013/02/19/geo… Many good critiques raised there.

@richmanmax 12:06pm Loving the idea of a #geowebchat about #hackathons. I’m in!

@bricker 12:06pm what were the outcomes/products? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:06pm BIg problem in #neogeoweb hackathons is diversity of skills. Is that the same in other hackathons? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:07pm @AndrewShears maybe time to organise one for Fox then?! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:07pm And here are a few questions to guide the discussion today: mappingmashups.net/2013/03/17/nex… (But we’ve got great momentum already!) #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:08pm critique of #hackathons is that they exploit free labour. Isn’t volunteering a choice? Hacking as a recreational activity? #geowebchat

@spara 12:08pm Code for America built two popular apps at our hackathon streetmix.net and click-that-hood.com #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:08pm SEMA hack drew many coders without a clue abour geo #geowebchat

@richmanmax 12:08pm Hope #geowebchat folks have read @jakeporway’s piece in @HarvardBiz on #hackathons: blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/03/you…

@mappingmashups 12:08pm @re_sieber Is diversity of skills a problem or an advantage in hackathons? #geowebchat

@uwajibikaji 12:09pm @mappingmashups @re_sieber diversity is a benefit, but certain skills are needed otherwise all are swimming #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:09pm How do people feel about large organisation “jumping on the cool bandwagon” of hacckathons? #geowebchat

@richmanmax 12:10pm Last weekend @DataKind put on a #data4good #datadive (problems addressable by data) focused hackathon: bit.ly/DataKingWorldB… #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:10pm @mappingmashups Diversity of skills is a disadvantage. We found many techies frustrated w need to educate non-techies #geowebchat

@spara 12:10pm I don’t think hackathons have to be exclusive events #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:10pm People have volunteered their time for generations. Hackathons are just another version of mowing the community soccer field #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:11pm #geowebchat the article seems very means-ends oriented. In my experience the value of hackathons is often building social capital

@eknalprev 12:11pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups diversity can suck if specific output is required #geowebchat

@richmanmax 12:11pm @richmanmax @DataKind er, that should be bit.ly/DataKindWorldB… (no such thing as a DataKing… at least yet…) #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:11pm @uwajibikaji @mappingmashups Diversity of skills is a mgt prob for hackathons where most want to code #geowebchat

@spara 12:11pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups You have to manage the diversity to get everyone to participate #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:11pm @CraigMDalton what about building strength and links within a community? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:12pm #geowebchat perhaps I’m too inclusive– when is a hackathon a hackathon? vs. a bar camp or conference?

@bricker 12:12pm @peterajohnson only sometimes the outcomes of a hackathon are less useful than a mowed soccer field #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:12pm @markiliffe @CraigMDalton this is a pro thing in the @re_sieber argument agains diversity. communities are diversity #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:13pm @re_sieber but sometimes you need input of non-techies for new ideas and a better understanding of use over flashly tech #geowebchat #hacks

@re_sieber 12:13pm @CraigMDalton is a hackathon an end or a means? I found that many were frustrated that mtg didn’t incorporate followup #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:13pm @CraigMDalton “building social capital” cuts a few ways, too. In the prev chat @tmcw said hackathons are often publicity stunts #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:13pm @markiliffe #geowebchat exactly- building a community

@mpmckenna8 12:13pm @eknalprev @re_sieber @mappingmashups Diversity could increase the likelihood of post hackathon development. Increasing reach… #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:14pm @CraigMDalton – @taarifa_org has used hackathons pretty much exclusively to build its community. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:14pm You all seem to have very lofty goals for a hackathon. Can’t people just get together and NOT change the world for once? #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:14pm @CraigMDalton it also allows @taarifa_org to get critic from others in the field at the problem statement levels. #geowebchat

@uwajibikaji 12:14pm @peterajohnson usually they don’t. biggest problem with hackathons is follow-up #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:15pm @AngharadStone Found that in hackathon most enjoyable session was how to mk best use of a bar chart–data viz writ small #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:15pm @CraigMDalton the idea being that it’s a solution to issues, not a solution in search of a problem #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:16pm hackathons = entertainment, recreation, fun, and yes, community building and maybe even creating a useful app to find kale #geowebchat

@spara 12:16pm Follow-up is the responsibility of the team. For example @chipr used a hackathon a base for Knight Grant response #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:17pm @CraigMDalton @markiliffe @re_sieber diversity is good when it involves communities, but can be a problem for coding output #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:17pm @peterajohnson What’s the goal of a specific hackathon? Many go to play w code, although lofty goals are often motivations too #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:17pm @eknalprev isn’t a very deterministic approach in that #hackathons are always about code? #geowebchat @CraigMDalton @re_sieber

@uwajibikaji 12:18pm @markiliffe @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @re_sieber but is the code a means or an end ? #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:19pm @re_sieber so is there much of a difference between a hackathon and various other community development activities? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:19pm @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @markiliffe How does a hackathon differ from a participatory GIS session? R we just rebranding PPGIS? #geowebchat

@spara 12:19pm re diversity. Most people show up to contribute, lack of coding skills is not a reason. Take advantage of their knowledge #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:19pm @uwajibikaji code is an end in itself + a means to an end. Depends on individual. #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:20pm As community v’s tech seems to be an issue – would any consider doing a hack in 2 parts? ideas then coding just for the techies? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:20pm @uwajibikaji @markiliffe @eknalprev @CraigMDalton For many, code is the beginning & end, amen #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:20pm @re_sieber @peterajohnson to me hackatons are also education #geowebchat

@spara 12:20pm Code is both a means and an end. The group decides. #geowebchat

@GrahamHyde 12:20pm If a large organisation wants to jump on any bandwagon doesn’t that validate what you are doing? # hack #geowebchat @AngharadStone

@tmcw 12:21pm @re_sieber @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @markiliffe PPGIS needs a rebrand (or to die as a term), but hackathons aren’t that #geowebchat

@GrahamHyde 12:22pm A learning #hack will be part of #bigdataweek in Leeds at end of April #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:22pm @re_sieber the one at the AAG last year? yes- on follow up. Could #geowebchat ‘s growth could be seen as a form of follow up to that?

@eknalprev 12:22pm @tmcw @re_sieber @CraigMDalton @markiliffe similarity ends with good facilitation? #geowebchat

@richmanmax 12:22pm Okay #geowebchat #overlyhonestmethods: I usually make some sort of map at #hackathons so we all can look at something pretty at the end.

@re_sieber 12:23pm @eknalprev @peterajohnson If hackathons are also ab educ then educ ab what? If not tech then isn’t this still just comn dev #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:23pm @richmanmax Those are the #overlyhonestmethods for #PPGIS, too. #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:23pm @GrahamHyde I’m concerned about org holding #hacks just to be seen to be on trend but not doing anything with the outcomes #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:23pm Can’t we just replace the term ‘hackathon’ with ‘workshop’? #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:24pm @re_sieber @peterajohnson in our case educating non-geo coders about the joy of geoweb :-) #geowebchat

@greerjacob 12:24pm Hackathons are an additional type of event model. Motivation, goal, participants, method… these are always organizing problems. #geowebchat

@bricker 12:24pm @tmcw why should PPGIS die? cost? not sexy enough in these modern times? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:24pm @tmcw @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @markiliffe NEVER! ;-) #PPGISforever #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:24pm @peterajohnson “workshop” to me suggests more facilitation. Also implies that the event itself is the goal, not a product. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:25pm @CraigMDalton What then r hackathons? Comm dev+edu+tech in playful surrouds? #geowebchat

@CraigMDalton 12:25pm @re_sieber @eknalprev @markiliffe #geowebchat It seems that a hackathon is a short term tactic. ?PPGIS long term, thoughtful project?

@mappingmashups 12:25pm @peterajohnson …so maybe yes, some hackathons should be called workshops, but not all. #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:25pm MT @mappingmashups:”workshop” to me suggests more facilitation. Implies that the event itself is the goal, not a product. #geowebchat +1

@spara 12:25pm @peterajohnson Workshop suggest pedagogy rather than creativity #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:25pm @re_sieber Is PPGIS about generation of data and driving participation, whereas hackathons are more about code generation? #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:25pm @mappingmashups @peterajohnson “workshop”— YAWN — went to code at starbucks … #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:26pm “hackathon” does seem to be used broadly… sometimes a workshop, sometimes an unconference, sometimes like PPGIS? #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:26pm @mappingmashups so we need a definition of terms? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:26pm @eknalprev @tmcw @CraigMDalton @markiliffe Sim of skills ends in easier facilitation of hackathon #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:26pm do hackathons have to be done in the same physical space, does ppgis? is that how ppgis becomes vgi? #geowebchat

@tmcw 12:26pm @re_sieber @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @markiliffe PPGIS is what academics and bad wikipedia articles call open data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:27pm RT @markiliffe: @CraigMDalton what about those projects which start at hackathons and are broader than a specific community? #geowebchat

@spara 12:28pm + 1 @tmcw: @re_sieber @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @markiliffe PPGIS is what academics and bad wikipedia articles call open data #geowebchat

@tmcw 12:28pm @mikedotonline Isn’t VGI just a nice term for stealing under the guise of collaboration? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:28pm @mikedotonline PPGIS=participation; hackathons=code. That’s what I’m wondering. Even in hackathons, coders want to do good #geowebchat

@spara 12:29pm @mappingmashups @markiliffe @CraigMDalton reuse is a desired outcome #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:29pm @spara the world just doesn’t need another reporting platform. Unless it’s written in Haskell. #geowebchat /cc @mappingmashups @CraigMDalton

@CraigMDalton 12:30pm @re_sieber #geowebchat in-person collaborative code? a subculture/tribe event? thus my question earlier what is a hackathon?

@spara 12:30pm @re_sieber @mikedotonline Hackthons are more than code. They can be ideas and process #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:30pm RT @spara: @re_sieber @mikedotonline Hackthons are more than code. They can be ideas and process #geowebchat <— YES! +1

@mizmay 12:30pm As someone who works within gov’t doing data viz, hackathons for social change are a tiny bit antagonizing. #geowebchat

@peterajohnson 12:30pm I bring up alternate term because hype behind something can be stripped away by using a simpler term with a longer history #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:31pm @re_sieber hackathons are about doing good? I always thought they were about doing “cool”. #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:31pm @mizmay can you elaborate? #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo 12:31pm @spara @tmcw @re_sieber @eknalprev @CraigMDalton @markiliffe In its defense, there is “process” to PPGIS beyond the data #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:31pm @markiliffe We need a definition of terms and the definition should be added here: geoweb.andrewshears.com/index.php?titl… #geowebchat #geowebwiki

@spara 12:31pm Hackathons are a way of looking at problems and finding solutions outside of regular process #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:32pm RT @mizmay: As someone who works within gov’t doing data viz, hackathons for social change are a tiny bit antagonizing. #geowebchat – AGREED

@eknalprev 12:32pm @disruptivegeo @spara @tmcw @re_sieber @CraigMDalton @markiliffe indeed, in many cases there is no beyond to hackathons #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:32pm @CraigMDalton YES. Physicality and collaboration v important to hackathons #geowebchat. also comfort in the tribe (as you said, see AAG)

@mizmay 12:33pm “Learning to test and clean the data is still… a skill that a data visualizer needs.” bit.ly/117Mai3 #geowebchat

@spara 12:33pm @eknalprev @disruptivegeo @tmcw @re_sieber @CraigMDalton @markiliffe Fail fast still applies. #geowebchat

@vijaybarve 12:33pm @mikedotonline Hackthons are dong cool good may be #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:34pm @markiliffe @mizmay For me the idea’s aren’t nessessarily new of different from what we’ve been trying to do but without freedom #geowebchat

@spara 12:34pm @mizmay If the people holding a hackathon want usable code, they must bring clean data #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:35pm To some, hackathons are a retreat from the messiness of democracy. “We code therefore we fix the wicked problems” #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:35pm can hackathons also be a way of personal exposure and corporate responsibility? Consider Google’s women in code initative #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:35pm @spara @mizmay but is data is already “sanitized” and objectives set, then where’s the innovation? #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:35pm @spara does a #hackathon always have to involve data? @mizmay #geowebchat

@counti8 12:36pm re: PPGIS & hackathons: PPGIS (mostly) doesn’t emphasize civic tech ownership; hackathons value expertise expressed in code. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:37pm @markiliffe Sure. First, it’s the emphasis on the sleek product, rather than the thoughtful, genuine insight #geowebchat

@counti8 12:37pm @re_sieber IAWTC. My policy wonkiness laments the underemphasis on domain knowledge expressed in hackathons. #geowebchat

@andnewmanGEO 12:37pm I have never been to a hackathon – that makes me cool right? and as I can write MapBasic that makes MapBasic cool too. #geowebchat

@spara 12:37pm @eknalprev @mizmay Innovation is in the solution, not the data munging #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:38pm @markiliffe @spara @mizmay Some hackathons are as much about hacking/cleaning data as creating software. Esp for crisis mapping. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:38pm @counti8 Disagree. My earliest wk was precisely ab civic tech ownership, even though it was bulky GISs. #geowebchat

@spara 12:39pm @mappingmashups @markiliffe @mizmay True, that can be one function of a hackathong #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:39pm @counti8 Interesting Q, do ppl now own tech, if it’s Google API suite? Are hackathons expressions of ownership over tech? #geowebchat

@counti8 12:40pm Hackathons excite me in combo w/ code.org. Want to dodge issue reductionism & support diversity of participants. #geowebchat

@disruptivegeo 12:41pm Exactly. RT “@spara: @eknalprev @mizmay Innovation is in the solution, not the data munging #geowebchat”

@markiliffe 12:41pm @mizmay doesn’t that come down to leadership at the #hackathon though? I’m really interested in your experiences! #geowebchat

@counti8 12:41pm @re_sieber Is that ownership in the open source understanding of tech, i.e. you can choose how to share this data, manip, etc.? #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:41pm @re_sieber what that make corporate sponsored hackathons subversive? #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:41pm @re_sieber @counti8 oh dear, the ownership issue. Wonder what @ppgis has to say about this #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:42pm @spara @mappingmashups @markiliffe @mizmay Did you mean hackathon or hackathong? Got to get me one of the latter #geowebchat

@andnewmanGEO 12:42pm But seriously hack days let you learn new skills or contribute to products. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:42pm @markiliffe and second there is the assumption that tech is efficient and government is inefficient #geowebchat

@GrahamHyde 12:42pm For info. bigdataweek.com/bigdatachallen… #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:42pm An interesting hackathon and civic hacking requirement for hacks has been they must go beyond putting data on a map. #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:42pm @re_sieber I’m wearing one right now… #geowebchat /cc @spara @mappingmashups @mizmay

@spara 12:43pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @markiliffe @mizmay Hah! Freudian slip! #geowebchat

@mpmckenna8 12:44pm @andnewmanGEO And hackthons give you exposure to others skills and strategies you may not have conceived of. #geowebchat

@spara 12:44pm @markiliffe @re_sieber @mappingmashups @mizmay damn Pythong #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:44pm How do we all feel about the logistics and facilitation of a #hackathon? Problem statements, needs? What makes a good one? #geowebchat

@counti8 12:44pm @eknalprev Likely @re_sieber are using the word diff. Many layers to it. I’m curious re: post-hack/PPGIS session indiv work. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:45pm @markiliffe When in truth, social issues tend to involve entrenched systems with deep roots and people in the trenches… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:45pm @GrahamHyde First we had #opendataday and now #bigdataweek. Because #bigdata is too big for one day! #geowebchat #odhd

@richmanmax 12:45pm .@mizmay I’m also a social sector “intrapreneuer” & certain hackathons have been great to meet & learn from super smart folks. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:45pm @mizmay @markiliffe @mikedotonline We shoud not ignore the instrusion of the market, capital accum, outsourcing in a hackathon #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:45pm @spara, I bet its constrictive. #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:46pm @API_Economics problem statements for… #geowebchat

@spara 12:46pm @markiliffe I let the participants decide on problem statements, then let them sort them into working topics. #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:47pm RT @markiliffe: How do we all feel about the logistics and facilitation of a #hackathon? What makes a good one? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:47pm @spara @markiliffe Hackathon organizers need to recognize the range of types we’ve identified, and outline what they expect. #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:47pm @richmanmax that’s legit, hackathons are good social networking… #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:48pm @spara @markiliffe Some organizers may want a free-for-all, while others hope for more focus. Vols need to know what to expect. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:48pm @counti8 @eknalprev PPGIS emphasizes empowerment (may or may not occur). Does participation in hackathons provide empowerment? #geowebchat

@richmanmax 12:48pm .@mizmay @markiliffe with the right kind of volunteer event, perhaps it can help persuade folks to join us in the trenches? #geowebchat

@lolkins 12:48pm @markiliffe I’d be unsure of what skills I can bring to the table. I’d thus like ones that are explicit in their objectives. #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:49pm @re_sieber @counti8 good question. will take it to our next workshop. #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:49pm @lolkins that (IMHO) makes you the most valuable participant. I find that hackers can get bogged down in detail …(tbc) #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:50pm @lolkins having people to support and require explanation forces documentation to occur, making the #hackathon more sustainable #geowebchat

@re_sieber 12:51pm @mappingmashups @spara @markiliffe Is there code of ethics 4hackathon? 1.organizers must anticipate skill-levels & offer feedbk #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:51pm @markiliffe @lolkins another big argument to have skills diversity in a hackathon #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:51pm @re_sieber are all participants equal? coding experience and ability will vary greatly, and influence participation #geowebchat

@counti8 12:51pm @re_sieber No argument from me re: skepticism at empowerment at hackathons; they come pre-loaded w/ assump’s. #geowebchat @eknalprev

@andnewmanGEO 12:51pm @lolkins @markiliffe agreed I have loads of ideas but my technical skills are depreciating, should I go. #Geowebchat

@spara 12:52pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @markiliffe There are guides for running a hackathon. @codeforamerica has one #geowebchat

@eknalprev 12:52pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @spara @markiliffe theres a nice report about the succesfactors in the waterhackathons #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:52pm @andnewmanGEO coders shouldn’t be the only participants, you need facilitators, documenters, testers, leaders etc. #geowebchat /cc @lolkins

@re_sieber 12:53pm @mikedotonline One of the probs: not all participants equal (&therefore valued) in hackathons #geowebchat #codersRule

@eknalprev 12:53pm RT @eknalprev: @re_sieber @mappingmashups @spara @markiliffe succesfactors in the waterhackathons waterhackathon.org #geowebchat

@andnewmanGEO 12:53pm @markiliffe @lolkins organisers need to be clear on this in invites then! #geowebchat

@mikedotonline 12:54pm @re_sieber, analogous to PPGIS, value of Elders vs. Youth opinion #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 12:55pm @spara Do you have a link to that #cfa guide? #geowebchat

@markiliffe 12:55pm @mizmay to play devils advocate, you could say at #hackathons they present themselves that way…? #geowebchat /cc @richmanmax @re_sesper

@mizmay 12:55pm @markiliffe @richmanmax @re_sesper hackathons often treat gov’t/social agencies like black boxes. that cuts both ways. #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:55pm RT @andnewmanGEO :
@markiliffe @lolkins organisers need to be clear on this in invites then! #geowebchat > many only ask for coders!

@re_sieber 12:57pm @andnewmanGEO @markiliffe @lolkins Do we run risk of inviting deserving not undeserving particips in hackathons?Sim prob w PPGIS #geowebchat

@spara 12:58pm @mappingmashups @codeforamerica Event Guide google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j… #geowebchat

@counti8 12:58pm @eknalprev @re_sieber IMHO, hackathons stress ownership in a practical, I’ll-leave&improve-this sense. (Speak to data type too.) #geowebchat

@mizmay 12:58pm @markiliffe sorry, lost the thread. present themselves what way? #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 12:59pm @re_sieber @andnewmanGEO @markiliffe @lolkins I was put off a recent hack as you had to register so they could vet applicates! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:00pm RT @re_sieber: @spara @mappingmashups @codeforamerica Very useful taxonomy for hackathon like events docs.google.com/document/d/16C… #geowebchat

@mizmay 1:00pm I’d be curious to hear from folks who participated in a successful #hackathon for social change, and what that constituted #geowebchat

@spara 1:00pm @re_sieber @mappingmashups @codeforamerica It’s part of our training as CfA Fellows #geowebchat

@markiliffe 1:01pm @mizmay as governments/orgs presenting themselves as black boxes #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:01pm We’ve hit the end of our hour at #geowebchat. Please continue chatting if you like. I will post a transcript here: mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/

@re_sieber 1:01pm @counti8 @eknalprev So hackathons embed the feedback? “I own this code, analysis, viz so I’ll find ways to further develop it?” #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:02pm Also, please take a moment to add your thoughts to #hackathon page at the #geowebwiki: geoweb.andrewshears.com/index.php?titl… #geowebchat

@markiliffe 1:02pm @mappingmashups boo! #geowebchat

@mizmay 1:02pm @richmanmax @markiliffe yes, goint in the trenches/wanting to delve deeper into an issue would constitute success to my mind #geowebchat

@richmanmax 1:02pm .@mappingmashups thanks for organizing. enjoyed the #geowebchat

@spara 1:02pm @mizmay This grant proposal is the product of a hackathong newschallenge.org/profiles/chip/ #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:02pm @AngharadStone @andnewmanGEO @markiliffe @lolkins Hackathons, the new members-only treehouse where only the cool kids hang out #geowebchat

@markiliffe 1:03pm @spara I propose we rename hackathons to hackathongs! #geowebchat /cc @mizmay

@mizmay 1:03pm @markiliffe because they won’t clarify? or can’t? or aren’t there? #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:03pm If you liked this topic, we can continue the chat in a subsequent #geowebchat. Upcoming chat topics: #drones on Apr2, #AAG2013 debrief Apr16

@spara 1:03pm @markiliffe @mizmay I don’t know what’s wrong with my typing today! #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:04pm And as always I’m looking for #geowebchat guest hosts and topic suggestions. Don’t be shy! I need help keeping this going.

@spara 1:04pm @re_sieber @AngharadStone @andnewmanGEO @markiliffe @lolkins Not true, it depends on how you run the event #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:05pm @markiliffe @mizmay Gov cont to present itself as blackbox in hackathon & not tkg adv of openness is missed opport for gov #geowebchat

@counti8 1:06pm @re_sieber @eknalprev Def. encourages self-org on long-term maintenance in assumed absence of formal sanctioned app stewardship #geowebchat

@spara 1:06pm Pics from the recent Code Across America flickr.com/search/?q=%23c… #geowebchat

@eknalprev 1:06pm @mappingmashups thanks for hosting this frenzy #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:06pm And thanks to all the new people who joined this #geowebchat. It’s been intense!

@mizmay 1:07pm @re_sieber @markiliffe I think the “black box” comes down to communication failures due to differences in social/culture #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:08pm @counti8 @eknalprev Continuing the spirit of the hackathon long after its end should be important obj #geowebchat

@andnewmanGEO 1:09pm So how about ‘do days’ predefined problem & a day 2 find & try sols 2 bring strategists, practitioners, users & coders 2gether. #geowebchat

@mizmay 1:09pm @re_sieber @markiliffe … and #hackathons are tech culture. Can you ask gov’t to meet you there? #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:10pm @mizmay @markiliffe Perhaps hackathon is one way to break blackbox w gov coders communing w civil soc coders. #geowebchat

@DavidBuckster 1:10pm So reading #geowebchat @andnewmanGEO @AngharadStone yours skills as #geo mentors for @youngrewired would always be appreciated.

@re_sieber 1:10pm Love to have #geowebchat meetup at AAG in LA

@mizmay 1:11pm @re_sieber I’ll be there #geowebchat

@eknalprev 1:11pm RT @re_sieber: Love to have #geowebchat meetup at AAG in LA: Count me in

@spara 1:11pm @mizmay @re_sieber @markiliffe We have government participate all the time #geowebchat

@eknalprev 1:13pm @re_sieber lets have it at the beach so we can all wear our hackathongs #geowebchat

@AngharadStone 1:14pm @re_sieber Can we set-up a skype for those too far away at attend #AAG ? #GeoWebChat

@mizmay 1:14pm @spara @re_sieber @markiliffe yes, gov’t participates. on your terms. I’m just saying that has disadvantages. #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:14pm @spara @mizmay @markiliffe “We have government participate all the time” #geowebchat Another way to us v them–gov as participants too

@spara 1:14pm @mizmay @re_sieber @markiliffe Gov participates on their terms, they bring knowledge and data crucial to success #geowebchat

@mizmay 1:15pm @AngharadStone haha this is getting advanced @re_sieber let’s do it. #AAG #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:16pm @eknalprev If I made a hackathong (to sell 4cheap, not to show!), I’d need a slogan and how many might want one. #geowebchat

@spara 1:16pm @re_sieber @mizmay @markiliffe We acknowledge gov has critical knowledge of process and problem. We welcome their contributions #geowebchat

@re_sieber 1:17pm @mizmay @AngharadStone Stay tuned fo details of meetup (&skype address) of #geowebchat @aag

@spara 1:17pm @mizmay @AngharadStone @re_sieber Hah, this might convince me to break my 21 year boycott of the AAG #geowebchat

@markiliffe 1:19pm @QuentinJohns1 have a look at #geowebchat stream! :)

@re_sieber 1:21pm @spara Come to AAG. We can talk Neal Stephenson and William Gibson. Plus #geowebchat

@QuentinJohns1 1:29pm @markiliffe 4 viable solutions 1.clearly defined problem statement (crowd sourced from relevant users / providers / experts) #geowebchat

@QuentinJohns1 1:29pm @markiliffe 2. right mix of subject experts / Devs (30/70 roughly) with facilitators available #geowebchat

@QuentinJohns1 1:30pm @markiliffe 3. Documentation with a clear line to incubation and support afterwards 4 successes #geowebchat

@QuentinJohns1 1:37pm “@markiliffe blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/03/you… @jakeporway great article on hack design (I’m sure it’s posted here somewhere) #geowebchat

@mappingmashups 1:37pm @re_sieber Presumably someone will organize a general #AAG2013 tweetup. We can also do one specifically for #geowebchat if we want. Why not?

@mappingmashups 1:40pm I also hope to see the #geowebchat crowd at @floating_sheep’s #AAG2013 #ironsheep event. Assuming no “tribal” scheduling conflict like 2012.

@QuentinJohns1 1:40pm #geowebchat what if gov defined entrepreneurial gaps in the (social & environmental) markets… Then hacked 4 ideas? @markiliffe

@mappingmashups 1:44pm .@spara @floating_sheep The #ironsheep “hackathon” will be in the evening of Wed April 10. Location still TBD, I think? #AAG2013 #geowebchat

@mizmay 2:12pm @spara @re_sieber @markiliffe see you at @aag? In the meantime… gov’t is not a monolith and the culture is hierarchical. #geowebchat

@mizmay 5:55pm @spara #CampaignFinance is a fantastic example of where data viz for social change is sorely needed, thanks! #geowebchat

In whatever form, hackathons are growing in popularity (at least among tech- and internet circles) but are also coming increasingly under critique. Some argue that hackathons are just another form of exploited volunteer labor, where businesses and governments get a weekend of skilled services they’d otherwise have to pay for. Others point out that the rhetoric of openness and engagement surrounding hackathons ignores the fact that they are still very exclusive events where only people with certain skills can contribute meaningfully. Even for those who support the goals of a hackathon in principle, there is the argument that a hackathon is simply an ineffectual way to create software, that programming requires solitary and sustained focus, rather than dozens of people working together for a short time, with no long-term commitment to a project.

This week on #geowebchat we will be discussing hackathons: When are hackathons effective, and for what tasks? Have you participated in or organized a hackathon? If so, please join us and share your experience. Also (since this is geowebchat), we will ask whether hackathons have a special relevance to the geoweb, rather than to the web more generally?

Log on to Twitter for a one hour discussion at 12pm PDT / 3pm EDT / 7pm GMT on Tuesday, March 19.

If you can’t make it, a transcript of the chat will be available afterward here: http://mappingmashups.net/geowebchat/