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Originally Posted by Djöfull

Wellit's one of the most expensive country in Europe along with Norway.. and more expensive since the financial crisis. Food prices have nearly doubled..

Both houses and apartments.. The major city area has been getting denser, but there are some green areas in between.

Yes it's a wise choice. We have used some of the high pressure areas and now there is a debate to use more of them due to the crisis, but it may be too risky financially and there are some delicate, pristine areas in danger.

Bleurgh! Sea Sheperd.. They are hated in the Faroes and Iceland. It's hypocritical to be tolerant of eating cows and sheep and not whales. These whales stranded and were bound for a long painful death. The method of killing is a special knife that rips through the spinal chord ensuring that the animals die instantly(most of the time).

Yeah Iceland was hit really hard by the "financial crisis", especially because of the banks. Basically some guys stole a lot of money, and there was no control whatsoever of the loans. However, since Iceland (Scandinavia in general) are some of the few countries (only ones?) in the world were the people have actual power; the problems with the banking system were quickly corrected, which is, I believe, admirable.

I do agree with the methods that the Sea Shepherd uses, despite it's growing popularity. However, I don't agree with the way food (i.e. cows) is managed in the U.S.

My point is:

1) Iceland, Norway, Japan and related countries should not kill whales because most of them are endangered. It was fine to do it before, but not now when there's such immense human over-population and so few whales.

2) The US has probably the WORST food industry in the world concerning pollution and the destruction of the environment. I suggest watching Food Inc. to see how things are there. To put it short, cows are fed the king of kings, corn, instead of grass. They're kept in small corrals, essentially crapping on each other. In the documentary that I mentioned before you can see the cows living/walking with crap up to their knees.

So both parts are wrong, Iceland shouldn't kill whales, and the US should control their over-population and their food industry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefay82

yes, i've heard you suffered a lot from the crisis. and i knew also that iceland is pretty expensive (i suppose it's also because it's an island and a lot of goods must be imported from the continent) what i really meant to ask is: is this expensiveness rightly compared with salaries or not? i mean, are you able to live with high or low life standars? are salaries enought high to live there or you have to struggle to reach the end of the month?

this is a problem we have here in italy. even if life is less expensive than in other european countries, like scandinavian ones, we have very low salaries, and there's a deep gap between life cost and people's real possibilities.
the euro have destroyed partially our economy, because prices have doubled and salaries have remained the same, only converted in the new money. so...on balance it's like our salaries have been halved.

I really doubt that most Scandinavians have problems "reaching" the end of the month, perhaps Sweden a bit (since it was hit a bit with the financial crisis). Those are truly developed countries, and I'm sure most people have high living standards.

Yeah the Euro destroyed Greece, Italia and España. It was, au fond, a way to exercise political dominion over "less-prepared" countries, such as the ones I mentioned before. It was, fundamentally, a way for Germany and France to conquer Europe (sorry! ). I've been to Italia, and it was the closest to a 3rd-world country that I saw in Europe; España is much better off to be honest (despite having 20% unemployment).

Djöfull · September 17th, 2010, 06:05 AM

You are regurgitating senseless propaganda.

Most whales are not endangered. Some baleen/mysticeti are and a few odontoceti/tooth whale are. The mink whale that Iceland, Japan and Norway(exclusively) hunt has never been considered endangered and has a population of at least 100.000 in the northeast Atlantic and worldwide.. who knows. The yearly hunt is about 150 in Iceland. The same number goes for the fin whale which has been recently hunted. That is controversial as some consider it endangered. However the population has recovered in recent decades.
The pilot whale that the faroese hunt is in the hundreds of thousands in the northeast Atlantic.

The sea covers 70% of the surface of the earth... and the few countries that do hunt(Iceland, Norway, Japan, Greenland + some indigenous groups in Canada and the US that hunt within an allocated quota from the IWC) do so around the seas of their country. Indonesia is the only country in the Southern Hemisphere with a whaling industry and many species are present in most of the earth's ocean.

What has human overpopulation has to do with whaling? Most countries do neither hunt nor eat whales. The US is a big country, so I can't see why you see an overpopulation there...

I haven't seen Food. Inc. Been meaning to It is built upon the book The omnivores dilemma I read.

Regarding the financial crisis. I haven't heard that Sweden was hit by the crisis more than other countries. And the banking system in Iceland was kind of rebuilt but people are still struggling with loans that are tied to the inflation. Banks changed executives and names.. but people don't trust them entirely.

Defiance · September 17th, 2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djöfull

You are regurgitating senseless propaganda.

Most whales are not endangered. Some baleen/mysticeti are and a few odontoceti/tooth whale are. The mink whale that Iceland, Japan and Norway(exclusively) hunt has never been considered endangered and has a population of at least 100.000 in the northeast Atlantic and worldwide.. who knows. The yearly hunt is about 150 in Iceland. The same number goes for the fin whale which has been recently hunted. That is controversial as some consider it endangered. However the population has recovered in recent decades.
The pilot whale that the faroese hunt is in the hundreds of thousands in the northeast Atlantic.

The sea covers 70% of the surface of the earth... and the few countries that do hunt(Iceland, Norway, Japan, Greenland + some indigenous groups in Canada and the US that hunt within an allocated quota from the IWC) do so around the seas of their country. Indonesia is the only country in the Southern Hemisphere with a whaling industry and many species are present in most of the earth's ocean.

What has human overpopulation has to do with whaling? Most countries do neither hunt nor eat whales. The US is a big country, so I can't see why you see an overpopulation there...

I haven't seen Food. Inc. Been meaning to It is built upon the book The omnivores dilemma I read.

Regarding the financial crisis. I haven't heard that Sweden was hit by the crisis more than other countries. And the banking system in Iceland was kind of rebuilt but people are still struggling with loans that are tied to the inflation. Banks changed executives and names.. but people don't trust them entirely.

It's not senseless propaganda. Around the seas of their country? Please, Japan has had constant problems with Australia because the Australians have caught Jap boats fishing in Australian waters.

I admit I didn't know much about the types of whales killed in Scandinavia, I'll look up more info on that. Still, a lot of whales are endangered. Not all, but a lot.

Blah, so you're one of those people that think that over-population means that "whether people can fit in a place or not"? That's a very ignorant perception. Remember that it's not really about that, but about the resources that exist in the planet (food, petrol) too keep those people and their living standards alive. Example? I simply wonder how the heck will Iceland survive without petrol. Considering how it was affected by the recent crisis, I can't imagine how you'll survive when there's not a drop left.

On the financial crisis (FC), the thing was that (I think) on the DT forum someone said that Sweden was having a tough time due to the FC, but I don't know whether it was true or not. I'm pretty sure Iceland was hit a lot more, though. Yeah the banks changed a lot, which is good (that wouldn't happen anywhere in the world), but obviously people aren't going to trust them so much anymore.

Djöfull · September 17th, 2010, 05:58 PM

The japanese violating international law is a valid point. But that does'nt change the fact that they mostly hunt mink whales and a vast area of the ocean is unaffected by whaling. The whaling nations are what 5 and maybe 5 indigenous groups that hunt occasionally.. that is out of 200 nations.
Figures from a few years ago show that 16% of whales are endangered. The numbers hunted are improbable to affect the sustainability of most of the species hunted by the "major" whaling nations.

I didn't realise you were talking about overpopulation in regard to the overconsumption of resources.

Quote:

I simply wonder how the heck will Iceland survive without petrol. Considering how it was affected by the recent crisis, I can't imagine how you'll survive when there's not a drop left.

Well... there are some decades left until that happens.. maybe more. Anyway there has been an experiment here on hydrogen buses. Also electric cars( they have to be charged often compared to petrol). Then there are "twin" cars that alternate between petrol and electricity.

lefay82 · Yesterday, 02:45 AM

i think it sounds strange to us because we're not used to eat whale's meat but you should keep in mind that this use belongs from a long time to those folk who hunt them, at least they kill them for food....
if you really care about animal than you should not eat also foie gras (which is obtainted by a forced overfeeding that procures illnesses to duck's livers, they are feeded by a tube which is forced into their throats) or you should not use some cometics products tested on animals, or should not wear leathers or furs....people illtreats animals in so many ways nowadays

Agah · Yesterday, 03:49 AM

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

Thidrek · Yesterday, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agah

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

Yes, we are. But the meat industry is just disgusting.
I'm not vegetarian, so as a consumer I'm a part of it as well, but I at least try to only buy organic meat. That's a thing I can live with for now.

Defiance · Yesterday, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djöfull

The japanese violating international law is a valid point. But that does'nt change the fact that they mostly hunt mink whales and a vast area of the ocean is unaffected by whaling. The whaling nations are what 5 and maybe 5 indigenous groups that hunt occasionally.. that is out of 200 nations.
Figures from a few years ago show that 16% of whales are endangered. The numbers hunted are improbable to affect the sustainability of most of the species hunted by the "major" whaling nations.

I didn't realise you were talking about overpopulation in regard to the overconsumption of resources.

Well... there are some decades left until that happens.. maybe more. Anyway there has been an experiment here on hydrogen buses. Also electric cars( they have to be charged often compared to petrol). Then there are "twin" cars that alternate between petrol and electricity.

Indeed, of all the whaling countries, Japan is the worst. They use "culture" and related excuses in order to go over-seas and kill endangered whales. 16% is a lot, whales are wonderful mammals and humans suck for killing them.

Well, over-population = over-consumption of resources. Of course, even if there's no over-pop there can still be over-consumption of resources.

I think that the real petrol crisis will start ca. 2030, but little action is being taken in order to avoid that. Which is good because world population right now is 6 bil., but when we run out of petrol the world, with today's living standards, will be able to sustain only 2 bil. (source: Life without Oil, A Crude Awakening).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agah

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

I'm not saying we're not, I think that being a vegetarian is BS. I believe that humans evolved a lot when they started eating meat (or maybe it was the monolith… ), and meat is necessary in order to survive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thidrek

Yes, we are. But the meat industry is just disgusting.
I'm not vegetarian, so as a consumer I'm a part of it as well, but I at least try to only buy organic meat. That's a thing I can live with for now.

Indeed, it's not about eating cows or not; it's about the industry's standards, how they feed and treat the animals. Again, in the US cows are over-fed with corn (whatever happened to good ol' grass?), living in their own faeces up to their knees. So no, it's not about the cows, it's everything that happens in order for you to have that tasty hamburger in your plate.

Windvang · Yesterday, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agah

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it.

superficial...

Agreed with Defiance about how to treat animals before eating them. It's all about the industry standards. But also about the consumer! People eat much more meat then they need. Being a capitalistic society the consumer have to decide to eat much less meat, and also organic!

Defiance · Today, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windvang

superficial...

Agreed with Defiance about how to treat animals before eating them. It's all about the industry standards. But also about the consumer! People eat much more meat then they need. Being a capitalistic society the consumer have to decide to eat much less meat, and also organic!

Indeed! The industry;s standards are basically non-existent; it's amazing how (at least in the US) the meat market is controlled by ca. three different companies! You'll have all these diverse types of packages with beef in them, but in reality most of them come from the same place; they just have a different design.

It's also very true that people should eat much less meat! I used to eat meat twice per day, and that obviously wasn't very healthy. And in that way I was supporting a corrupt industry with no standards whatsoever and polluting the planet a lot more than necessary.

Everyone should really watch King Corn and Food Inc., the latter is especially an eye-opener. Now that I'm going to the US in October, I wonder what the fuck I'll eat because I'm sure scared as hell of eating meat there, and I'm not a vegetarian. I'll guess potatoes will have to do .

Windvang · Today, 12:44 PM

Is it hard to get organic meat in the US, Defiance? I do eat meat. But it must be organic. Most of the time I having a hard time to explain organic meat to people. Why is it so difficult to understand for people. It's really like they don't want to know the truth, which is maybe quite understandable. The truth is just to dark and nasty.

Hehe I was wondering if Andreas eat meat. You know, in the Borknagar diary video some of the members are making a barbecue. Mr. V is there too and he looks like me when my friends are having a barbecue, he seems to don't like it

Defiance · Today, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windvang

Is it hard to get organic meat in the US, Defiance? I do eat meat. But it must be organic. Most of the time I having a hard time to explain organic meat to people. Why is it so difficult to understand for people. It's really like they don't want to know the truth, which is maybe quite understandable. The truth is just to dark and nasty.

Hehe I was wondering if Andreas eats meat. You know, in the Borknagar video diary some of the members are making a barbecue. Mr. V is there too and he looks like me when my friends are having a barbecue, he doesn't seem to like it.

I've no idea, to be honest. Simply put, Food Inc. really bloody freaked me out; I'm just thinking of those damn E-coli (Escherichia coli) outbreaks.

I only eat organic food, no pesticides and the likes. Yes, truth is horrible, but one must confront it in order to lead healthier/better lives and make this a better world.

Yeah haha, Andreas doesn't look like much of a meat-eater; I wouldn't be surprised if he's veggie.

(Made some corrections to your post. Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

September 17th, 2010, 06:05 AM	#2074 (permalink)
Djöfull Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Iceland Posts: 1,374	You are regurgitating senseless propaganda. Most whales are not endangered. Some baleen/mysticeti are and a few odontoceti/tooth whale are. The mink whale that Iceland, Japan and Norway(exclusively) hunt has never been considered endangered and has a population of at least 100.000 in the northeast Atlantic and worldwide.. who knows. The yearly hunt is about 150 in Iceland. The same number goes for the fin whale which has been recently hunted. That is controversial as some consider it endangered. However the population has recovered in recent decades. The pilot whale that the faroese hunt is in the hundreds of thousands in the northeast Atlantic. The sea covers 70% of the surface of the earth... and the few countries that do hunt(Iceland, Norway, Japan, Greenland + some indigenous groups in Canada and the US that hunt within an allocated quota from the IWC) do so around the seas of their country. Indonesia is the only country in the Southern Hemisphere with a whaling industry and many species are present in most of the earth's ocean. What has human overpopulation has to do with whaling? Most countries do neither hunt nor eat whales. The US is a big country, so I can't see why you see an overpopulation there... I haven't seen Food. Inc. Been meaning to It is built upon the book The omnivores dilemma I read. Regarding the financial crisis. I haven't heard that Sweden was hit by the crisis more than other countries. And the banking system in Iceland was kind of rebuilt but people are still struggling with loans that are tied to the inflation. Banks changed executives and names.. but people don't trust them entirely. __________________ but life's not a wheel with chains made of steel... Last edited by Djöfull : September 17th, 2010 at 06:30 AM.

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Yesterday, 02:45 AM
lefay82 Per aspera ad astra Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: italy Posts: 1,471	i think it sounds strange to us because we're not used to eat whale's meat but you should keep in mind that this use belongs from a long time to those folk who hunt them, at least they kill them for food.... if you really care about animal than you should not eat also foie gras (which is obtainted by a forced overfeeding that procures illnesses to duck's livers, they are feeded by a tube which is forced into their throats) or you should not use some cometics products tested on animals, or should not wear leathers or furs....people illtreats animals in so many ways nowadays __________________

Yesterday, 03:49 AM
Agah Zombie Jesus Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jørpeland - Norway Posts: 567	For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. Humans are omnivores, deal with it. __________________ Fader Frost visar ingen nåd kall men rättvis är hans filosofi: Varen ödmjuk eller förgås, i hans rike av snö och is! Last.FM

Today, 12:44 PM
Windvang Dark Folk Rocker Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Zwolle, The Netherlands Posts: 141	Is it hard to get organic meat in the US, Defiance? I do eat meat. But it must be organic. Most of the time I having a hard time to explain organic meat to people. Why is it so difficult to understand for people. It's really like they don't want to know the truth, which is maybe quite understandable. The truth is just to dark and nasty. Hehe I was wondering if Andreas eat meat. You know, in the Borknagar diary video some of the members are making a barbecue. Mr. V is there too and he looks like me when my friends are having a barbecue, he seems to don't like it __________________ Listen to my music at: WWW.STORMSTERK.COM Debut-album out now. Also available as free download! WWW.FAELWA.COM Still a few copies left from our EP WWW.MYSPACE.COM/MARKKWINT My personal Myspace

Metalheads Pro Nature

On hiatus

V-v-v-victory!

McDonald's Video Game

[Not-so] Breaking News

Russia, Norway sign border deal for Arctic energy

Denis Dyomkin

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Guide to greener electronics! Which company is the greenest? Which one pollutes the most?

Zwanzig Jahre, Deutschland!

Berserk

RIP The Colorado River

Thinking Allowed, Japan, Crucitas

Forum discussion

Hypocrisy: Fractured Millennium

Fractured Millennium

さよなら、こん さとしーさま。

Satoshi Kon's last words

Sayonara (Goodbye)

Real Time Stats of the World

Inuit stop "seismic testing" [to look for petrol] in Canada

Inuit win injunction on seismic testing

Judge grants block, citing potential for 'irreparable harm'

Costa Rica Really Does Hate Nature

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Advice of the week: Pay Your Bills Via the Net!

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