15 novels featuring dogs in honor of International Dog Day

[00:00:00] SHANNAN MALONE: Well, I guess I am the regular, normal reader who, for the summer, wants fun, fun, fun books.

HOLLY WIELKOSZEWSKI: My next book is very fun, Shannan.

WILL BOGEL: That sounds super fun!

BRIGID MISSELHORN: Don't worry-

SHANNAN: Well, I know you have more, but, you know, that just seemed kind of bleak.

WILL: Well, yeah. Yeah, sorry.

SHANNAN: I tend to like those kind of books, though, Will. You know that they make me think differently about something or encourage me to pursue a goal. The book I'm bringing was not that, and I enjoyed it so much.

[00:00:43] ANNE BOGEL: Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. This week, we are back with part two of our team's summer reading superlatives.

Readers, today we're talking about summer books we have loved, but fall is just around the corner, and to me, that means it's almost sweatshirt season. Forget "almost". In my house, sweatshirt season is here because Will Bogel just picked up an enormous shipment of brand-new sweatshirts from our local printer. That means our shop is freshly stocked with all colors and sizes so you can get your new sweatshirt now.

I love a great sweatshirt, even better if it's got a logo or saying that I enjoy putting on my body. That's why we've taken great care to create stylish and comfortable sweatshirts for our Modern Mrs. Darcy shop each year. And we've recently restocked this year's new style, our MMD sorority sweatshirt.

[00:01:55] We spent literal years finding just the right source and design for this sweatshirt, the right colors from the Comfort Colors brand, and crucially, well-made appliques in just the right navy with white stitching around the edges.

You know how I'm always quoting Wallace Stegner, who says, "Hard writing makes for easy reading"? Well, my experience has been quite similar with our sweatshirt design. And after a long, painstaking process, I'm thrilled with how it came together and how beautifully simple it looks. Based on our original sales from our limited spring release, you are, too. We promised that we would restock sizes and colors for fall and let you know as soon as they are in. So they're here. Get yours now.

If you're on the hunt for the perfect sweatshirt for back-to-school season or any time of year, if you're lucky to live in a place where it's not blazing hot in the summer, whether you're the student going back to school or you are just ready for fall and its comfy layers and long sleeves, check out our MMD sorority sweatshirt and all our merch, including our newly available Fall Book Preview print lookbook at modernmrsdarcy.com/shop.

[00:02:58] Readers, last week you heard part one of our team's selections for best books of summer. As promised, today we're back with another round. In today's episode, you will hear from executive producer Will Bogel, community coordinator Brigid Misselhorn, community manager Shannan Malone, and media production specialist Holly Wielkoszewski.

As with last week, today's team members represent a cross-section of the bookstore. Today's conversation features sci-fi and fantasy picks that range from cozy to dystopian, thrillers and stories with nonstop action, memoir, and nonfiction. Readers, it's always a good one when our team is on. Let's get to it.

[00:03:36] WILL: Well, welcome everybody. Glad to be talking summer reading with you again. We were just laughing off mic that we are calling in from a little bit different locations and time zones and all that stuff. I've got Shannan, Brigid, and Holly here. And Holly, it is what time of the day there?

HOLLY: It is 6:06 in the morning-

WILL: 6:06.

HOLLY: ...here in beautiful Australia.

WILL: Okay, in Australia, yeah. And my kid just walked in from school. So little bit different, little bit different right now, but we're all eager to talk about our summer reading. A week ago I did not think it was the end of summer. I'm like, "Well, we can't record. Summer's not over." And then, yeah, we took a kid back to college, and one of them started... You know, it feels like summer's over, even though it's...

SHANNAN: A point of order. I refuse to allow the machinations of society and school boards to determine that summer's over.

HOLLY: Hear, hear.

SHANNAN: It is still happening in my house.

WILL: Okay.

SHANNAN: It is still 99 degrees outside.

WILL: Oh yeah, it's still plenty summer here, too.

[00:04:35] SHANNAN: It is still summer.

WILL: But you know, when the kids go back to school, all the lifeguards are gone. And like, so, you know, you...

SHANNAN: Ah.

WILL: Fair. They shut down the water park at the big amusement park, and so...

SHANNAN: Mm-hmm. Fair.

WILL: All kinds of falls apart, so.

SHANNAN: I just refuse to yield.

WILL: Well, continue doing your summer reading, Shannan. You've got at least three weeks until Labor Day.

SHANNAN: Thank you. I do.

WILL: How's your summer reading going?

SHANNAN: It has not gone as I expected it to go, which I believe I say at every summer reading event that we have. I always think that I haven't read anything, and then I do the preparation for the event, and I realize, "Oh, I have read like six things." Like, okay, that's not too bad. Okay, two per month. I always think that I want to read sci-fi/fantasy during the summer. I always plan to go into the summer reading sci-fi/fantasy. And it turns out, the past couple years, I have not enjoyed that. I have not read any... I have read mystery and thrillers...

[00:05:40] WILL: Summer mysteries.

SHANNAN: ...for the summer, which I did not realize that, which is why reflection is good for the soul. Now, my midyear check-in I did with Anne on Episode 533. Yeah. So I won't go into all of those details because I've already done that. So you guys can go. But that was interesting that I noticed in preparation for this event.

BRIGID: Interesting.

WILL: I always love looking at my journal and going, "That's not what I remember... that's why I write it down, right? Because that's not what I remember." So yeah. Brigit, how about you? How's your summer reading been?

BRIGID: Well, I'm really laughing over here because we've had a really busy summer, Shay Misselhorn, as we like to call it. We've had road trips, beach time, art museum, summer camps, food poisoning, colds. You know, all-

SHANNAN: The gamut.

BRIGID: A full summer. But when I went to check my Goodreads and StoryGraph in preparation for this, I panicked also because I thought, "Wait, I haven't read anything this summer." But I had tricked myself, you guys. I was like, "What am I even going to talk about?" But then I remembered I'd been keeping a totally separate note of all the summer books. Thank goodness.

So just like you said, good thing we write it down well. But yeah, I'm really glad. I'm going to enter all those books into my Storygraph and Goodreads after this. But overall, I've felt like I've had a really top-notch summer reading experience, thanks to some really interesting finds that I'm going to talk about in a little bit. And independent bookstores, they have really helped me. We visited quite a few over the summer, and that's where I found some of these.

[00:07:23] WILL: Nice, nice, nice.

SHANNAN: That's nice.

WILL: I forget that... That's one of my favorite parts is, like, whatever you're reading, but like, why? Why now? Like, how'd you find it? That kind of thing, you know?

BRIGID: Yeah, yeah. "Why did I pick it up?"

WILL: You know, can relate to that. I have a line in my reading journal that is blank because I'm sure there's a book that goes there, but I don't know what it is. Because I'm looking at this, I'm like, "Okay, read that. I finished that at the beach. I can't imagine that I started this other book at the beach, but, like, what was I reading in between?"

So I went flipping through my Kindle to see, like, can I find a title? And I didn't notice anything there. I'm afraid it's a library book, so it went back to the library, and I don't know what... I don't know. Because I'm looking at the stack of books, and I was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I pulled those out for the beach," and I don't know what it was. I might be missing the best book I read this summer. I don't know.

SHANNAN: That's a problem.

WILL: That would be terrible, wouldn't it? I think I'd remember the best book. Holly, what have you been reading as you travel?

SHANNAN: And it's not summer there, is it, Holly?

[00:08:18] HOLLY: It's not. It is winter here, which I'm actually really enjoying. Every time we've traveled to this part of the world before, it's been summer or summer adjacent, so it's a very different vibe. I feel like I historically have had much better reading seasons in the winter than I do in the summer. And I think that that is what's contributing to my excellent reading recently, which has been great.

So when we had our kind of midyear freakout, I had a similar commentary of, like, my reading life's been weird, my Storygraph's been a mess... it's not been bad, it's just been weird and kind of unexpected.

Well, I've gotten my Storygraph sorted. I'm no longer in process of reading like 22 books or however many I had marked over there. It's now down to a reasonable maybe seven or something. And yeah, the cool weather. We've had a couple of rainy days. I mean, to be fair, where we are, the weather has been much more what I would consider fall weather, and that's been really nice. But it's been a little bit more of that cozy vibe of curl up with a good book. We've had a chance to do a few things that work really well for reading. Like we took a train, a five-hour train across part of the country...

WILL: Oh, fun.

[00:09:29] HOLLY: ...which was not particularly exciting for any other reason other than being on a train and getting to listen to an audiobook while you look out the window, which is one of my favorite modes of travel, no matter where I am. So that was fun. The other thing I really just enjoy is having access to books that I don't easily have access to in the US. You know, some of the Australian fiction and things that are not as readily available. So it's been a good summer/winter. I still have it summer in my brain, so I'm good with that language today.

WILL: When you're thinking about doing your midyear freakout, were you still stateside then?

HOLLY: I was, yeah.

WILL: Okay. So summer was still not great.

HOLLY: Summer was still not great.

WILL: And then you went over there.

HOLLY: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That was still there. And I think at the time of recording that, we still weren't sure if we were traveling or where we were traveling or anything. That was all very much up in the air, so it's come together quite well.

[00:10:19] I'm pleased with how everything's going. I've gotten some interesting books that I wouldn't have necessarily picked up otherwise. And I have a follow-up question, Will, which is I think that you can get your library hold or your library checkout history if you really need to go and track down that book. So that is my reminder of something you probably already know.

WILL: You're right. I'm sure I could. If I wanted to do that much research, I'm sure I could.

HOLLY: If you do. If you have time and energy for an extra little research project.

WILL: Buried somewhere in the settings there, yeah. Well, it sounds like your reading life needs a snowbird-sorta situation where we just kinda keep...

HOLLY: Apparently.

WILL: ...keep it always cool and ready to cozy up.

HOLLY: Yeah, maybe I will win the lottery, so that can always be true.

WILL: There you go. Keep playing. Somebody's going to win.

HOLLY: Somebody somewhere.

[00:11:12] WILL: It might be you. I have felt like I've had a really weird, hard reading summer. I don't know if that's necessarily true. Looking what I wrote down or whatever, I read a lot of nonfiction in the summer, and it turns out I've read a lot of nonfiction this summer, but I don't know, it's been bad. I didn't know what to read. Talk about bad, I just don't know what to read.

So when we went to the beach, I do a fair amount of reading while we're on vacation, and I packed more physical books than anybody else in the house because I just didn't know. I was loading books on the Kindle that I'd be like, "Oh, Anne read that before, so I want to make sure it's downloaded on mine, and here's an ARC that she has in advance. I could get that." And then also I got two library books.

So I get all this stuff, and then I put it in airplane mode because I'm like, well, I don't want the thing to connect and my library holds to disappear, you know? But I didn't know what to read, and so I came back, and the books are still there because I just haven't ever connected back to my home Wi-Fi, and finally read the last one that I'm like, "I'm never going to get this back if I return it to the library or whatever."

[00:12:14] So I've been a little fickle, I guess, on what kinds of things I want to read, you know? I'm settling back in. I was 10% of the way into a book the other day, and I texted my daughter to be like, "I'm really hung up on this stupid thing. Does it end? Does it get better, you know?" She's like, "Oh, yeah, that's real short." And within 2%, 3%, they had moved on, and it was over. But I was like 10%, I'm like, "I don't care," and she's like, "No, no, no, that's real quick." So it ended. I'm moving. We're doing okay.

SHANNAN: I've done that with Brigid. I asked Brigid, "Is this going to resolve?" She was like, "Nope." I said, "DNF, thank you very much."

WILL: It is great to know people that you can ask. Like, "I got into this, but I'm not sure what I've signed up for." Brigid, I'm real curious, you said you've got some good books that you really had a great experience kind of finding them at different places, and we're excited to get ahold of them once you finally found your note that told you what they were. So would you tell us?

[00:13:17] BRIGID: Yes, yeah, I'm more than happy to. I'm going to start with the most quirky, weird one. This book is for anyone who likes a weird, weird little book. I saw it on a table at Schuler Books, which is in Grand Rapids, and it was next to Open Throat by Henry Hoke and Audition by Katie Kitamura, and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to get something like a fever dream novella." And it is. And it's called Mostly Hero by Anna Burns.

Now, some people might be familiar with this author because she wrote a Booker Prize-winning novel called Milkman. I have not read that. This was actually written prior to that, but it's now being re-released in a hardback format, and it's bright neon green. So the cover just drew my eyes right to it. And so I picked it up, and I thought, "Oh, this is cool cover." And then the inside flap said follow Hero, the Superhero, as he saves the world from villains and falls in love with a femme fatale named Femme Fatale. And I was like, "I'm in. I'm in. I don't need to know anything else. This is coming home with me."

[00:14:30] And I soon found out that that is a similar naming convention she used for Milkman as well. Milkman is the character Milkman. So this is something she does in her writing. But when I tell you I just adored this really bizarre, silly book.

So you've got Femme Fatale, she's in love with Superhero, but unbeknownst to her, Femme's very sweet great aunt is actually Great Aunt the Supervillain, and Great Aunt the Supervillain is Hero's arch nemesis. And oh, also, Femme Fatale is... So the Downtown Eastside villains have put Femme under a magic spell created by evil wizards that make her randomly try to kill the Hero as well.

I mean, I'm not even making this up. It's hilarious, it's witty, it's silly, but it also makes super astute observations about society, family, relationships, love. I just could not put it down. It's short. You can read it so quickly.

[00:15:39] I would say the best thing to equate this to is think of the big fight scenes in an Avengers movie, but instead add in some Lemony Snicket kind of vocabulary and humor, and a battlefield of intimacy, if you can think of it that way. It is a love story, but it also... it's just wild. I'm so glad I found it.

WILL: I'm imagining Adult Swim. That's kind of what's in my head.

BRIGID: Yeah, yeah, it kind of has that vibe. I can see that. I can see that, yeah. At one point Superhero says something like, "Women being angry equates with the end of the world." And I was like, "Yep, okay." I just thought it was so funny. Very wild. And I'm thankful to an independent bookstore just having it on display next to two other books that I loved.

WILL: Very nice. Holly, you said you picked up some good ones from the various different sort of stores that you've been able to get to there in Australia.

HOLLY: Yeah.

WILL: What have you found?

[00:16:46] HOLLY: The first one I'll share is a memoir. It's called Always Home, Always Homesick by Hannah Kent. It came out in April 2025. You might recognize Hannah Kent's name. She wrote Burial Rites, which is a novel that I believe has been talked about on the podcast before, and I have known about her from that book. I went back and looked in my Storygraph. Apparently, I read it in January of 2014, if my dates can be trusted that far back, which is a question I'm not very clear on, and I gave it four stars at that time. I read it at the time that I was very much, and still am, to be fair, obsessed with Iceland. So Hannah Kent's kind of been an author in my circle of awareness, but I haven't read anything else by her.

I saw this memoir on the shelf. I actually saw it, I believe, last time I was in Australia, but it was large format, and I had carry-on and I didn't have a lot of time, and I was like, "Oh, I want to read this book, but I cannot read this book right now, physically." And it's not something I've been able to find distributed in the US.

[00:17:50] But this is a memoir of Hannah Kent's year abroad in Iceland when she was 17 years old. She went on a Rotary Exchange program. She was sent out to this tiny little village, didn't know the language, didn't know anything. She came out of Australia to literally the other side of the world, and how that experience just completely changed the trajectory of her life and her career and set her on this path that she would follow.

I just loved this memoir so much. It was written during the time of COVID. It was looking back at her experiences and her, like, now after multiple times of returning back to Iceland in the course of researching for and then writing this novel, Burial Rites, how she ingrained herself with the local community and leveraged deep genealogical resources and everything in writing this book. And also kind of what it means to have two feet in different countries and your heart split across different parts of the globe, and to be in places that you love, but also places that you can't be in all the time.

[00:18:55] This spoke to me on so, so many levels, and it was just a wonderful, beautiful memoir. I found it at my friend Renee's indie, where she works here outside of Sydney, which was great. I saw it on the shelf. It was a smaller format this time because it's been about a year, year and a half since it was initially released. I picked it back up, and I think it will actually be making the trip back across the ocean with me as one of my one to two books I'm able to fit into my carry-on luggage without overdoing the weight limits.

WILL: High praise. High praise.

HOLLY: So if you haven't read Burial Rites, it's not required to read that in order to enjoy this memoir, but I do think that they would be really enhanced by reading these books in close proximity. I'm actually thinking about going back and rereading the novel now, having had this context of how the story came together and how she was almost kind of haunted by this woman and this story over the years as she was writing this first debut novel.

[00:19:53] The story of how she wrote it is really a driving element of the memoir, and she takes us around all these places and the people that helped shape that story. So if you haven't read it, I would recommend maybe considering reading that first. But again, the memoir does stand alone as a wonderful book on its own.

I did recommend this book to Dana Prescott after our recent follow-up over on Patreon, and she said she was able to find it in her library system in Canada. So that might indicate it's becoming more available in North America in general, but I'm not 100% sure of its availability, especially digitally in the US right now. So that's a wonderful Australian find for me this summer and a really great book.

[00:20:37] WILL: One to keep our eyes out for. I also read a great memoir this summer. My son, who is probably the... He reads the least in the family. We'll just put it that way, kinda gave up on doing a book flood because we're like, "What do we give the one kid that doesn't read the book we give him?" You know? Not to disparage anyone's children or their reading habits. He just isn't into it, you know?

But he gave me a book for Father's Day, which was a memoir. It's really weird. The cover of this book is written as if the subtitle is the... It's kind of backwards. So the book is called Everything You Want Is on the Other Side of Hard, but then they sort of refer to The Other Side of Hard. Like his website name is The Other Side of Hard. He has a podcast that's called The Other Side of Hard. So it's all sort of flip-flopped that like the least important words are the first ones, you know?

[00:21:23] This is Ken Rideout. Came out this year. And I'm looking at this book, I'm like, "Okay, my kid bought it for me. What does he know about how to find these things?" I'm pretty sure he's just like Amazon top-running dad books. Like whatever, you know. Like I'm just not sure how he kind of comes across these things or whatever. But I was like, "You know what? I'll take it to the beach, thank you very much."

Ken Rideout is currently the Masters marathon champion. So it means he's run the fastest marathon in whatever year that was a little while back. I don't think it means it has like a world record, but in whatever season he won the championship race sort of thing, whatever. And then he ran the crazy why-would-you-do-this Gobi Desert race thing, which is like 10 days of like... You carry your own stuff and run across the desert. They give you water, and that's it. They'll set up a tent, but you gotta carry your food and all that stuff, whatever, as a whatever he is, 52, 54-year-old, something like that.

[00:22:18] So I'm pretty sure that's how I ended up with it, but it was a crazy story. As far as memoirs go, super readable. I'm pretty sure he didn't write it. You kind of get the idea that he got... I didn't check to see if there was a ghostwriter, but clearly got help because it was very well done and very much carried his voice. But sometimes people who are not writers trying to write their own memoirs, like they're trying to tell their own stories, and it's just not all that good. So this was super readable.

He starts out just in a really rough family situation and kind of chronicles, that, and then sort of the mindset of like, "I've got to get myself out of all this," into college and figuring out his first job. He ends up doing finance, and though kind of having a little bit of imposter syndrome, ends up landing several big finance jobs, and he's making tons of money and whatever.

[00:23:11] He gets addicted to opioids, so throughout this time period, he's on and off of opioids, like just back and forth and back and forth. He's got stories about the 2008 financial crash and all these things that are clearly a lot of pressure. Somebody's spending a lot of money on whatever. He's making a ton of money, like all this stuff. He's got all these things you could imagine, but he's also stuck with this thing that he can barely just function without it kind of deal.

And at some point... he's always been sort of working out. He had been a college hockey player and really thought he was going to go to the NHL, and that didn't work out. He's always kind of been into fitness stuff or whatever, but at some point he starts running, and the combination of like getting clean and running and whatever, he sort of turns into this marathoner, whatever guy.

[00:23:54] But it was a... You know, it's not heartbreaking. I was about to say heartbreaking. I don't think it's heartbreaking, but it's bleak at times, kind of deal. But where he is now telling the story, he really has a pretty good perspective on all of it.

I did finish the book and think, "Oh, I think he's addicted to running." Like, I'm pretty sure. He quit the pills, but like you now listen to what he's doing now, and then the commitments and all that stuff, I'm like, "Ooh, yeah, he still definitely has some addictive stuff." And I've listened to a couple of his podcasts, and he just straight up says that. He's like, "Oh, no, I don't think I'm not an addict. I'm still an addict, but before it was grim and I was thinking I was going to kill myself chasing whatever. And now I'm doing something that is productive and good for me and whatever." So I was like, okay, well. Because I kinda got the sense at the end of the book, I was like, I'm not sure how much of a redemption story this is. But he does admit to that kind of stuff. That's Ken Rideout telling his story about addiction and overcoming all that stuff. So The Other Side of Hard.

[00:24:56] SHANNAN: Cool. Wow. Well, I guess I am the regular, normal reader who, for the summer, wants fun, fun, fun books.

HOLLY: My next book is very fun, Shannan.

WILL: That sounds super fun.

SHANNAN: I know you have more, but, you know, that just seemed kind of bleak, so.

WILL: Well, yeah. Yeah, sorry.

SHANNAN: I tend to like those kind of books, though, Will. You know that they make me think differently about something or encourage me to pursue a goal. The book I'm bringing was not that, and I enjoyed it so much. It was a satisfying summer read. I kept turning the pages because I wanted to know what happened.

[00:25:45] The one I'm bringing was in the summer reading guide, so thanks, Anne. And it is The One Day You Were My Husband by Rosie Walsh. I have not read anything by her. Anne says she inhaled it in two days, and so I was like, "Okay." But when I went through the Summer Reading Guide, that category, which was mystery and suspense, I picked The Fine Art of Lying. And I read it, and it was fine. So I was like, "Oh, no. Oh, no. I'm not sure I should read The One Day You Were My Husband." I'm like, "I don't think this is for me."

I was so apprehensive. I haven't read any five-star reads this year, which is bothering me, and I was very afraid I wouldn't enjoy it. I mean, the premise: a girl marries a guy who gets arrested the day of the wedding, after the wedding. Like, I'm like, "This just doesn't sound appealing." But then I did my trick, which is where I download a sample on Kindle. And I started reading it, and I was like, "Oh, this is interesting. This is kind of interesting." The sample ran out, and I was like, "Hmm, kind of want to know what happens." But I was still apprehensive.

[00:27:15] WILL: Still interesting.

SHANNAN: I was still apprehensive. The writing was great, I have to say. I don't even know how to describe the style, but it felt not... A little literary. Like, very emotive, but still, you know, not too over the top for me. So I finally brought it to the Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club in a Sunday dispatch. I was like, "Should I read this? Let me know if I should read this." And everyone said, "Yes, you should." So I picked it up. I'm very happy that I did. I really, really liked it.

I wouldn't call it a five-star read, but it is very, very close. I kept turning the pages to see what happened. That was so fun for me. My mouth kept dropping open over and over again. I did not see the last mouth-agaping moment coming. Like, I was just like, Oooh. I think I picked up the phone at that point and texted Anne, and was like, "Oh, my goodness. What is this? I'm dying to talk about it with somebody."

[00:28:25] It was not what I expected also, because even though it was one of those turn-the-page, turn-the-page, turn-the-page, there was a lot of emotional resonance and emotional heft with it, I thought, and I was not expecting that. Again, it was mysterious. The end, didn't see it coming. I need a sequel. At this point, I want to know what happened to these characters.

I mean, she did end it very nicely. She did, and tied it up. I don't mind things being tied up nicely, and it was ended very well for me. But man, I need part two. Like, let's keep going. It doesn't need a mystery or a thriller. It can just be about their lives after that. I would love to read that. So, fun, interesting, mouth-dropping experiences. Very good. Very good.

WILL: Wow.

BRIGID: So excited to hear this, because I tried it on audio and it wasn't... I don't know, it just didn't grab me. So now I'm thinking maybe I need the pages so I can turn and turn and turn.

[00:29:31] SHANNAN: Well, you know how I feel about audio, Brigid. You know, generally I...

BRIGID: I do. I do.

SHANNAN: I only do memoirs by the authors in their own voice on audio, because I struggle with the whole people trying to emote. I'm like, "No, no. That's not right. The acting with the... No." So I read it. I would say read it just for the ending. I thought the whodun... It's not really a whodunit, but you do wonder what happened, and so I was blaming everybody. Like, "Oh, it's this person. It's gotta be..." Oh, it's definitely... Oh, yep, shady. And then, yeah, I did not see that coming.

WILL: That's awesome.

SHANNAN: That's my one book that I'm bringing.

WILL: It sounds like a great one.

SHANNAN: It was pretty decent. Now, that is to say there could be other books, but I have not finished them at the time of this recording, so they cannot be included.

[00:30:26] WILL: And you are on record that your summer's not over, so you've still got time.

HOLLY: You got time.

WILL: There you go.

SHANNAN: I do have time.

BRIGID: Okay, Shannan, so you mentioned you thought you were going to read sci-fi over the summer.

SHANNAN: I did.

BRIGID: Or fantasy. And I normally read thrillers or mysteries or suspense.

SHANNAN: You do?

BRIGID: But I read the sci-fi.

WILL: Okay.

SHANNAN: Okay.

BRIGID: This one, oh my gosh, I really think you and Holly would both love it. If you are not aware of it, it is Moss'd in Space by Rebecca Thorne. Came out this summer. My husband Chad has read the Tomes & Tea series by Rebecca Thorne. It starts with that book. You Can't Spell Tea Without-

SHANNAN: Treason Without Tea.

BRIGID: Treason Without Tea. So many puns. I love this. I love this about the author. But this is the first book I read by her. I had seen something pitched as Murderbot meets The Spell Shop. And I would agree, that is a pretty good pitch.

[00:31:28] I do think it'd be really good for fans of Becky Chambers' books. I would call this a cozy sci-fi. There is, though, a little bit of stakes going on here. So it follows... Well, I guess I should tell you the tagline first. The tagline's really funny. It's, "Human romance is ridiculous." And I was like, "This is just too cute." What a great little tagline.

And it opens with the ship log from the mechanical operation and support system, and that sub identity is Moss. So this is a life support system who calls itself Moss, and it truly is moss. So this moss is growing on a ship that has been left abandoned for a century. You read a few of Moss' logs and think of the voice like... it's like sarcastic space entity.

[00:32:24] To me, it reminded me of K-2SO, who is from Rogue One. That's Tudyk's role. That kind of humor or sarcasm. Soon thereafter, main character, Torian Razner, shows up with money to buy a ship to try to find a place to move with her sister, who is suffering from a breathing disorder on the planet they currently live in. I just loved her discovering Moss, because truly Moss is all she can afford with her credits, as you would say. It's just a lovely found family, true family, space adventure. I read it and listened to it at the same time, while I was reading it often, and it's really well performed by Dylan Fitzpatrick, who I'd never listened to read an audiobook, but all the other parts are done by Natalie Naudus, who is a favorite of mine. So I knew I was going to like that no matter what.

[00:33:33] It's wonderful sci-fi. I think it's perfect for any time of year, but could be good for fall. I happened upon this one at Sourcebooks in Detroit when we were traveling, and I'm so glad because the print copy is really beautiful, and it's a paperback original. The author, Rebecca, mentions in her acknowledgments how thankful she is that her publishers helped her to make something that was beautiful yet affordable for readers. And I really appreciated that. It was so sweet.

It does have an epilogue that's like an end credit scene from Guardians of the Galaxy. So I will mention that because it is book one in a series. And so the epilogue I would not say is a cliffhanger, but just keep that in mind. There is more adventure to be had. So that was my sci-fi for the summer.

SHANNAN: Sounds interesting. Holly, are you familiar with this one?

HOLLY: I am not familiar with this one, so I am definitely going to check it out. I particularly think the audio sounds interesting, so thank you, Brigid.

BRIGID: You're welcome.

[00:34:37] HOLLY: And I also have sci-fi for the summer, if we want to continue on a theme for one more book.

WILL: Yeah.

HOLLY: So my second pick today, I have two, is Seek the Traitor's Son by Veronica Roth. This just came out on May 12th. I have been really enjoying Veronica Roth's work recently. I think a lot of people know her from the Divergent trilogy series. I don't remember how many books ended up being in that, but that was, you know, back when The Hunger Games and everything were first launching and that was all the rage. But she's been doing a lot of writing more recently, and I found it to be really compelling and mature and interesting. This is a tome of a book, and I thought it was fantastic. So let me tell you all about it.

[00:35:25] First of all, I will say I got this through Bookshop as an e-book, and it is DRM-free, so thank you to Tor and Veronica Roth for embracing that technology. I appreciate that. This is a dystopian speculative fantasy with a little bit of sci-fi and romance. So it's basically a genre bundle of delights altogether.

It's set on a future post-apocalyptic earth, and at its core, it's about two women. One of them is Rava Bedar. She is the reincarnation of great warriors. She's a ruthless general, and she is part of the Talassar, which is the powerful nation that's in control of most of what's left of earth. This culture is savage and fierce, and they have been infected by this disease, this tremendous disease that kills everyone who gets this disease, but 50% of them then come back to life with new capabilities.

[00:36:28] The Talassar worship this disease. They intentionally infect everyone. They inoculate everyone. I don't know if that's the proper use of that word since it is a fatal disease, but people come back to life. I don't know about my terminology. But it's a really interesting structure and has led to this very kind of martial, powerful culture.

On the other side, we have Elegy Ahn. She is the second daughter, or the spare, of the leader of Cedra, which is the other nation that is here in a residual Earth. This is a small but very high-tech nation. They have fled the Talassar and their disease. They try to stay away to keep their people uninfected and mostly are split between a few small footholds left on the planet of Earth and their space station that orbits above.

[00:37:17] One of these two women is going to be the savior of their people that delivers them to power and prominence. But even the augurs, who are these fortune-telling clan of future seers, they don't know which one it will be. So that sets us up at the beginning of the story of these two kind of enemies who are pitted in this battle that neither of them really knew about, wanted to be chosen for, or knows how it will unfold.

And if that sounds a little bit complicated to you, it did to me too when I read the flap. I was like, "I don't even know what's happening here." But on the page, Roth makes it feel really fluid, really organic. It's laid out very nicely. So don't let world-building hold you back if this sounds like an interesting read to you.

WILL: Yeah, appreciate the caveat.

BRIGID: That was going to be my question.

HOLLY: Yep, yep. You know, Anne always says that hard writing makes for easy reading, and I know that's a quote that she has from somewhere that I can't attribute at this exact moment in time. But I think that this is a twist on that idea, that this is... I think Roth has put a lot of work into this world building, so it is complicated, but she's done it in a way that is really easy to read.

[00:38:27] So as we come into the story, we do see it from multiple perspectives of a few other characters, but overall, it's Elegy's voice that guides us. I was just really drawn into her journey, the unexpected twists and turns it took. We have, fairly early in the book, a major event happens, and then we have a time jump of several years, so we're able to see how these characters have matured and have responded to this significant event and what that has meant for their journeys.

We meet a lot of Elegy's network of friends and supporters and people. It's not something that I would describe as quite the, you know, cozy found family, but there is a really great character bank here of people that we get to know and care about and see how they are navigating this prophecy and this battle that is going on between their two countries and cultures.

The best news about this book is that it is part one of a duology, but Roth has come on record and said the second book is already written and is releasing in spring 2027. So we're not going to be waiting for however long it takes for fantasy and sci-fi authors to get to their next installment. I'm very happy about that.

[00:39:37] WILL: To write another tome.

BRIGID: What are you talking about? They always write them right away.

HOLLY: I know. Right away. It's no problem. So yeah, if you enjoy any of these themes, topics that I've mentioned here, I think this one would be a really great pick for you. It was a perfect summer read for me. It was immersive. I found it really page-turner. I really cared about what was happening to the characters and what might happen next, and it was just different enough from a lot that I've read in this space that it felt really fresh and really unique to me. So that was Seek the Traitor's Son by Veronica Roth, and you should probably find it on your new release shelf.

SHANNAN: Question, how old are the main characters?

HOLLY: Great question. They are older. I am struggling to come to an actual age, but if I was going to tell you, I think when they first start, they're probably in the like 20 to 22 range, and then we have a time jump of about four to five years, so by the time that the action is really happening, they're older 20s. They've had some careers, some work, some skills. There's some cred there. They're not middle-aged protagonists like one of my other recent books in the sci-fi/fantasy light pick, but they're old enough to not be annoying little 17-year-olds running around with all the magical powers.

[00:40:56] SHANNAN: You just answered the question that I was not asking.

HOLLY: So thank you. I'm here for you, Shannan. No problem.

WILL: It's like we know each other. Well, I also read a tome. It doesn't sound nearly as fun as your book, Holly. But yeah, I read a pretty long book this summer that I actually recommended. We were all sitting around talking about it, I was like, "Oh yeah, you won't believe it. This is good," whatever. But I don't think you care this much because like I'm only halfway through and it turns out more than 50% of the book was end notes. Right after I had that conversation, the book ended, I was like, "Oh, here? Now? Over?" It was enormous. So lots of detail, lots of... Okay, before I get to that, this spring I read London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe. Oh, I see some nods. You guys know this. Okay. I thought that might've been a Summer Reading Guide book, but it was not in the Summer Reading Guide.

BRIGID: I haven't read it yet.

WILL: So...

BRIGID: I think it was in the Spring Book Preview.

[00:41:55] WILL: Okay. Okay. So Leigh is a big Patrick Radden Keefe fan and has been telling me for a while, like, "You've got to read Patrick Radden Keefe." Instead, I listened to his podcast. Have you listened to that? Really loves this podcast?

BRIGID: You recommended it to me.

WILL: Did I? Okay, good.

BRIGID: Loves this podcast, yep. And I loved it, devoured it.

WILL: So good. It's eight episodes on whether or not the CIA wrote the song Wind of Change by Scorpions. He does this investigative thing because he heard a rumor that maybe it wasn't actually written by them, and the CIA intentionally created this sort of anthem to help bring down the Soviet Union.

Anyway, great research, fun topic, you know, whatever. But I was always a little scared of his books because they're big. And I'm not sure why I jumped on London Falling, but started there because it's the new one. It's the one that just came out. I think I heard a podcast with him talking about the book, so I think that helped me kind of have a way in a little more than I have felt like I have when I go to grab one of these big, meaty nonfiction books on the shelf.

[00:42:56] This book just came out, but I think the story is maybe four or five years old. London teen from a pretty well-off family jumps out of a, whatever, I don't know, fifth story apartment or something like that, and his parents, when they find this out, are like, "Where was he? And with who? And why?" And like nothing makes sense.

And it turns out he was living an entirely different life, had made up this entire background, and was hanging out with some really rich and powerful people that apparently just didn't ask a lot of questions about where he came from. Both the author and some of the cops are like, "I don't know how this works." Like, "How did you all not know?" And they're like, "Yeah, we just didn't ask questions, I guess." A lot of handshake stuff, a lot of, "Well, I trusted this person who introduced me, so I figured he was cool, and I didn't have to do my own due diligence."

[00:43:44] He gets mixed up in this world, and what I believe now is pretty normal Patrick Radden Keefe ways. He goes into all these different things. What's going on in London? How did it become this town? Why are these people all moving to town? These people, lots of them being Russian. Where does the financial business in London, how does it convert from a port city to this big money machine? Why do people kind of turn a blind eye to some maybe not legitimate activities? There's all this sort of background as to what's happening in the city as we lead up to like why is this kid Zach fascinated by this? How does he insert himself into this world? What happens to him?

The only thing I really didn't like about the book, he handled it really well because he's talking to the parents, he's doing all this deep dive and all this stuff and it's not that old. They're baring their soul to him or whatever. It just didn't have a satisfying ending.

[00:44:36] SHANNAN: And it's one of your best books this summer without a satisfying ending?

WILL: Well, it's just a sad story. There isn't an ending that makes you feel better about it. It's a true story. And so you got to the end and you're like, "Oh no, that's what happened?" Like it just didn't kinda give you that hero's journey, you know, you kinda maybe think of the journalist as the hero. It doesn't give you that "And then I solved it." And apparently in one of his other books he solved an old mystery.

And so he's trying to tell, when he meets the parents, he's trying to tell them like, "I can't tell you I'm going to get the answers." That happened, but it's not like how it works, you know? And so he's kinda trying to frame expectations and all that stuff.

I thought it was great, very readable. He's super, super readable, so as far as detailed nonfiction, investigative sort of stuff, like yeah, he was super good. So that was the beginning of the summer. I was like, well, at this point I'm hooked. Leigh, I'm finally going to do it. I'm going to get Empire of Pain, which was the book I put on my Kindle and then put into airplane mode because I was like, "Well, I'm not going to get it... Like I don't know when I'm going to get it back. This is checked out quite a lot." And it was so long.

[00:45:40] Empire of Pain, if you don't know, is the story of the Sackler family who invented OxyContin. But the book... have any of you read it? Any of you?

BRIGID: No. I haven't read that one, no.

HOLLY: Just aware of it.

WILL: Well, I'll tell you, it's not as long as you think it is. When you pick it up there's a lot of notes. So don't be too intimidated. It's a pretty long book, but it's not as bad as you think. It starts with the previous generation of Sacklers. So right now the people that are like in court are the grandkids who've sort of taken over the business. It was the parents who pushed all the OxyContin stuff, but the story starts with the previous generation, the grandparents.

Holly, you were talking about world building. I do have a hard time keeping track of people, and every one of these people's name is Sackler. So there are three brothers. They get married, they have kids. All the kids' last name is Sackler. They all get divorced and get these trophy wives that are younger who are like, "Oh, I'm married to a Sackler. I'm changing my name," so they're Sacklers too. You know, it's just like all these... And then they all have families. And they all work at the company. So like there's just like all these Sacklers.

[00:46:45] And also one of the kind of things that they did as a business move is like it's all very, very tightly held to the family, but then also like very, very confusing. What businesses do they own? What business runs this other piece? So like it's not technically that business. They're kind of always shell games, moving things around and stuff like that. There is a point at which the older generation, he launches a pharmaceutical marketing company, and there's only two guys in town. There's him and the dude down the street, and they have all the big accounts. Everybody goes to one of these two. Well, somebody realizes he's the money behind the other guy. So he's playing both sides.

Anyway, it's shady all the way through and through. I mean, 60, 70 years of shady. All the things you may have heard about how OxyContin came to be and how hard they pushed it and some of the shady things they did and whatever, the grandpa did with Valium back in the '50s. Same playbook, same stuff.

BRIGID: It's hereditary.

[00:47:44] WILL: OxyContin is this miracle drug that we probably don't need is kind of basically what it comes down to. And they start just telling stories and like most of it is not true. Talk about a not satisfying ending. They do finally get a judgment against them, but there's so many lawsuits and all that stuff, the judge rolls them all up into one. And so it's like this is the last lawsuit, final, whatever. They gotta give up, I don't know, something like 9 billion of their $12 billion or whatever. But of course, he's doing all this research and realizes, but they could pay it over time, and it turns out $12 billion makes a lot of money, so over time they never lose their principal. They're making payments, but... Anyway, it's awful.

There's a whole story of the arts community, the artists and stuff like that, because they start pouring a lot of money into both medical research and colleges and all that stuff, and then also into the arts. There's the one particular artist who starts a group. She got hooked on opioids but had some art in... I think it was the Met. One of the museums. She had art in the museum that had his name on it, and she's like, "Oh, no." And they start staging all these die-ins and these big gatherings to sort of bring attention to like, you can't be taking these guys' money.

[00:48:59] But they did so much to avoid putting their name with the company. So everybody knew who the Sacklers were, and they donated a lot of money, and that they were rich, but nobody really knew why. Because when you talk about Purdue Pharma, no one ever mentioned their name. And they were very specific about that. All the press, all the whatever, they sent the like yes men out front to do things, and so like they just kinda stayed clean for a while.

So there is an end to that one, Shannan, but I don't know. If you sorta look around at what's going on or, I don't know, read Demon Copperhead or whatever, or read... So talk about a book fight. I read Ken Rideout about opioid addiction, and then I read about how that all happened, and I was like, "Oh, yeah. This is still happening." So, there's not really any coming back from that kinda deal. But Patrick Radden Keefe — my apologies, Leigh, for taking so long — he's great. Great research, great storyteller.

[00:49:54] BRIGID: Well, if you do want to switch to some fiction, my last book has kind of your...

WILL: Do you have another book?

BRIGID: Yeah, but it has your name written on it.

WILL: Because I'm like, downer, downer, d-

BRIGID: Yes. It is. I'm going to end it a little lighter there.

WILL: Thank you. Thank you. What do you got, Brigid?

BRIGID: It's something that I wanted to talk about. I was really trying to keep it to two books for this, because I know, you know, time, but I also knew this might be right up your alley.

WILL: Me? Okay.

BRIGID: So I had to talk about it. And it is a mystery. I did read a mystery, did some mysteries this summer. And this one I found on Instagram, and I cannot remember how, so if it was somebody, please tell us in the comments that you posted about this book. It came out this summer. It's called Get Lost by Justin Halpern. If the name sounds familiar, it's because he is the author of Ish My Dad Says. Ish is not the word I'm actually trying to say here.

[00:50:52] But he also is one of the showrunners for Quinta Brunson's Abbott Elementary, which I know you guys like watching, and I like as well. I was like, "A mystery by this guy?" You know? I was familiar with Ish My Dad Says. I didn't know he wrote Abbott Elementary. I did this one on audio. It was read by Catherine Luttrell. I don't think I've read or listened to anything narrated by her before, but it was very entertaining.

So this is a darkly humorous noir. I would say, people are saying like for fans of Carl Hiaasen, and I thought it also kinda had the feel of some of those Anthony Bourdain crime fictions we've talked about in the past. It does have more emotional of a feel than a Carl Hiaasen. So the premise is that we meet Lila. She's a reluctant baseball talent scout, and she gets a call that her mother has gone missing, but this has happened before. Her mother has a tendency to go missing and just kinda show back up.

[00:51:53] So she's not really worried about it until they tell Lila that her dad, who is a former baseball player and has served time before, is under arrest for her mom's disappearance. So she's gotta go back to her small hometown in California with all these almond farms and try to figure out what happened to her mom and why her dad is possibly the fault of it. There's lots of baseball in it, obviously. The writing is really easy to visualize as a movie or show, which now makes sense knowing that he is a co-showrunner for this. But Lila's dad, John Dickerson, everyone calls him Dix, he's charming, mess up of a guy. And so it's a lot about this troubled relationship between him and his daughter, and how absentee he was, and trying to find her lost mom. I kept thinking of Corbin Bernsen in Major League or Tom Selleck, just kind of like a washed-up baseball player.

[00:52:55] It was great. I think you would really enjoy it if you have a chance to pick it up. And that's Get Lost by Justin Halpern. The ending is a noir. So keep that in mind when you pick it up. But it is humorous, and dark, and very touching in a lot of ways, too.

WILL: Fun.

BRIGID: So that's that. I had to make sure to squeeze that one in.

WILL: Thank you.

BRIGID: Thank you, guys, for humoring me.

WILL: I appreciate it. And you know what? I don't think people mind if we spend a little more time talking about books.

HOLLY: I don't think so.

BRIGID: Yeah, right? Especially ones that... I feel like these ones that I brought were... I hadn't seen them at very many places.

WILL: Yeah, I have not heard of most of these. And Holly, you said Divergent, I'm like, "Oh, okay, good. I am familiar." Like I do know something. Because I'm listening to you guys, I'm like, "I don't know any of these books. What's going on?" Well, thank you all for talking books with us, Holly, for getting up early and for sharing your summer reads.

BRIGID: Absolutely.

HOLLY: This was fun.

BRIGID: It was absolutely delightful.

HOLLY: Bump a few things up my list. This is great.

SHANNAN: Thanks for having us.

WILL: All right, Shannan, enjoy the rest of your summer, and hopefully you knock out a few more of those in-process books.

SHANNAN: Hopefully.

WILL: All right. Happy reading, everybody.

HOLLY: Happy reading.

SHANNAN: Happy reading.

BRIGID: Happy reading.

[00:54:11] ANNE: Hey, readers. I hope you enjoyed hearing more summer reading superlatives from the MMD and What Should I Read Next? team. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.

Join us on Patreon to hear episodes like today's without the ads. Sign up to receive ad-free episodes directly to your podcast feed for just $5 a month. Or for even more “make your reading life better” book talk, bundle ad-free episodes with our weekly bonus episodes and live events, including our upcoming Fall Book Preview in our Patreon all-inclusive tier. Find out more and see all the options at patreon.com/whatshouldireadnext.

Follow us on Instagram. We're there at whatshouldireadnext. I promised my team I would get on Instagram and do video to talk about Fall Book Preview in my own words, and that's happening soon. We're on Instagram @whatshouldireadnext.

Join our email list at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/newsletter for weekly updates on our show, merch restocks, upcoming events, and more.

[00:55:15] Thanks to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by executive producer Will Bogel, Media production specialist Holly Wielkoszewski, social media manager and editor Leigh Kramer, community coordinator Brigid Misselhorn, community manager Shannan Malone, and our whole team at What Should I Read Next? and Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ. Plus the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production.

Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.

[00:00:00] LEIGH KRAMER: I just want to note that I'm always accused of talking about more books than we're technically allowed, but I have not done that at all. Anne and Ginger have both been sneaking in extra titles.

GINGER HORTON: It's true.

ANNE BOGEL: Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Today's episode is part one of two for a popular summer tradition featuring the Modern Mrs. Darcy and What Should I Read Next? team.

[00:00:49] Readers, we're talking summer reading today, but fall reading is just around the corner. And if you're curious about the titles that you may be hearing about in the weeks ahead or what new releases might be suited to your to-be-read list, our Fall Book Preview is designed to help with those answers.

We are gathering for our eighth annual Fall Book Preview on Thursday, September 17th. A la carte ticket holders and eligible community members will receive a downloadable digital preview plus an invitation to our live unboxing event happening that night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. That's when I get to talk about it all and answer your questions.

If you are a member of our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club or our Patreon all-inclusive or bonuses and events tier, you are good to go. You'll have full access to the event and our digital Fall Book Preview look book. If you're not yet a member, our Patreon community invites you to join us at two different levels, and now is such a good time to do so.

[00:01:48] Our bonuses and events tier includes events like our Fall Book Preview, as well as our weekly bonus episodes. Our all-inclusive tier also gives you weekly access to ad-free episodes of this podcast. If you'd prefer a one-time charge, you're welcome to purchase an a la carte ticket for just this event. That's Fall Book Preview unboxing and the Fall Book Preview download.

We are offering a printed booklet edition of our preview this year, our little look book. And I had so much time getting in and designing it because this year we're doing something a little bit different. I can't wait to show it to you. This is smaller and in a different format than our printed magazine-style Summer Reading Guide. It's priced accordingly. We are working out the details and we'll have them ready for you soon. But right now we wanted you to know Fall Book Preview, Thursday, September 17th. All the details are coming. Now is a great time to join Patreon if you're interested. Find out more, get all the details and your Patreon info at modernmrsdarcy.com/fbp for Fall Book Preview. That's modernmrsdarcy.com/fbp.

[00:02:56] Readers, for years now, our team members have joined me on the podcast at right about this point in the year to share the books they've been loving most this season. Last year, we had so many titles to discuss that we split this conversation into two separate episodes. We heard really positive feedback from all of you about that format. So that's what we're doing again this year.

In today's episode, the first in our two-part series, I'm in conversation with three of our team members. They are our resident spreadsheet queen, Donna Hetchler, our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club community manager, Ginger Horton, and our Modern Mrs. Darcy editor and social media manager, Leigh Kramer. Next week, you will hear from the rest of our team.

As a team, our reading likes vary widely. We read across a range of genres that reflect the reading world at large, so I'm pretty confident that between today's conversation and next week's part two, every listener will hear a title that appeals.

[00:03:52] Today, you'll hear about true crime and books in translation, a backlist novel that inspired an award-winning musical, a literary mystery from a fan-favorite author, romantasy and thriller titles that captured our team's imagination this season, and more. Readers, let's get to it.

Hello, team. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining me in this format. I'm so excited you're here today.

LEIGH: Excited to be here.

GINGER: We are excited, too. I love summer.

DONNA HETCHLER: I always love sharing my favorite books, so it's an honor to be here.

ANNE: Oh, my gosh, the pleasure is all mine. We have been doing this for several years now and just always have the best time. Readers, we really enjoy this episode because we don't need an excuse to talk about books as a team, but we will still take anyone we can get. I think Shannan divided us into two groups of two, so as you heard today, I'm joined by Donna. Donna, tell us hello so everybody can hear your voice.

DONNA: Hello, everyone.

ANNE: Leigh.

LEIGH: Hi, everyone.

ANNE: And Ginger.

GINGER: Hi, this is Ginger.

[00:05:00] ANNE: And we're kicking off a two-part Best Books of Summer. And we're going to talk about what that means, best, favorite, how we individually thought of our superlatives, because I didn't make the rules. We make our own reading rules around here. We're the bosses of our own reading lives.

But first, I'd love to hear, here we are, late August, I feel like my summer is kind of over because the kids went back to school, but also it's still a bazillion degrees. So Fall Book Preview's coming. I'm thinking about fall. All of which to say, tell us how your summer reading is going, not how it went. Donna, you start us off.

DONNA: It's actually going great, I am happy to report. I really went into this year trying to simplify my reading, so I am more focused. I'm reading one book at a time, I'm reading fewer books, and I've been using Goodreads to help me narrow down my selections. So I analyzed the data, of course I did, from my spreadsheets, and I have picked a threshold of 4.2 on Goodreads ratings. Most of my books are above 4.2 on Goodreads, and it's been great.

GINGER: I love the specificity.

ANNE: You wouldn't have read any of my favorites then.

[00:06:17] DONNA: Sorry. It's just working for me. It doesn't work for other people.

ANNE: I just think it's funny. And I'm glad to hear what's working for you. That's why we're here.

LEIGH: How did you land on 4.2?

DONNA: Should I walk through the math?

LEIGH: Yes.

ANNE: Please. Yes.

GINGER: Absolutely.

DONNA: No, we don't have enough time for it, but we can have a one-on-one session with charts and graphs.

ANNE: That's like the three-hour graduate literary lab.

DONNA: Correct.

LEIGH: What Should I Read Next? 401 here.

ANNE: I'd sign up for that.

LEIGH: Me too.

ANNE: Donna, is there a short version? I remember reading a John Green post once upon a time where he indicated 4.3 was a magical Goodreads number.

DONNA: Oh, I'm going to look that up.

LEIGH: Oh, interesting.

GINGER: I want to find that.

LEIGH: It feels so high.

ANNE: You can fact-check me later

GINGER: One of my favorite things to happen in the reading life is when you loved a book and then you go onto Goodreads or your favorite platform and it's like a 2.5, and I think, "Excellent, like I'm not normal and I love that for me."

DONNA: This is a whole other episode.

[00:07:22] LEIGH: I don't know if I've ever loved a book that was rated that low. I don't even know if I always look at Goodreads first.

GINGER: Oh, okay.

LEIGH: And the rating doesn't really bear in mind if I'll read something or not. I always look at reviews. But this is fascinating to me.

ANNE: All right. Leigh, tell us about your summer reading.

LEIGH: Well, this has been a strange year of reading and I feel like that's been true for the past few years, where it's just harder to find the books that I love. I'm reading a ton. There's lots of four-star books, so it's not bad, but the five stars have been harder to come by. And then I don't know what it is, but in the last month or two I've had more five-star books than the first like five months of the year combined. So something seems to be working. I don't know if I'm just picking differently or if the stars have aligned, but I'm glad. Glad to see it.

[00:08:25] And just for some context, I looked yesterday to see how many books I've DNF'd so far this year and I've DNF'd 53 books.

ANNE: Wow.

LEIGH: So that should give some other context about like... it's just been hard to find the right ones. I've still read around like 100. I don't know. Donna, you're the mathematician of the two of us, so I don't know what that means, but-

GINGER: I did not expect to talk about this much math on a book podcast, you guys.

LEIGH: I'm taking over, Ginger.

DONNA: We love the good nerdy fun.

LEIGH: Mm-hmm.

ANNE: Ginger, how about you? How's your summer reading? And maybe remind everyone of your history with summer reading, perhaps, not being the... you take it away.

GINGER: Yeah, we're going to remind everybody of that because I'm usually a bad news first kind of girl. So let me tell you the bad news first. The summer slump has found me. It is early August and this is not to be surprised. I'm not surprised by this. August is usually my hardest reading month, and sure enough, that found me. But I had a great reading summer up to now. And I have high hopes for the next few weeks.

[00:09:31] Some of you know that I'm in graduate school and I had a great reading, you know, winter and spring, of course, but it looks very different. I'm reading Descartes and Augustine and Kant and Euclid. Donna told me I absolutely am not allowed to talk about Augustine on this podcast. I loved it.

DONNA: Spoiler alert.

GINGER: But I wanted to just have a grand old Summer Reading Guide kind of time. I wanted to like frolic and read the buzzy books and maybe like some middle grade. I wanted a respite, and I absolutely did have that. I think I bought every single Annabel Monaghan book after we read Dolly All the Time with book club. I wanted to reread some like Ann Patchett and Alexandra Andrews that I knew were having new books come out, Marisa de los Santos, like new books that were coming out this year. So I had a grand old start to the summer. Travel and company sometimes slows me down, it feels like, in August, and that has happened, but that's okay. I'm okay with it.

[00:10:25] ANNE: I'm sorry the slump has found you.

GINGER: Yeah, it's always a bummer. It's never surprising.

ANNE: You're still you

GINGER: But it is a bummer. And slump kind of means to me that I'm not finishing books.

ANNE: Oh.

GINGER: I'm still reading, but like nothing's sticking.

ANNE: Okay. Interesting. I've had a great summer. So my two twin goals in our time together today is not to talk about Summer Reading Guide books and not to talk about Fall Book preview books. I've been trying to live in the in between this summer, and it's been really fun.

I've had a pretty nerdy summer. I have definitely read some frothy... I've gotten to frolic a little bit, like you said. Not gotten to. I mean, I've chosen that a little bit. But I've also really enjoyed spending some time with some old books I've been putting off, or some more scholarly, literary, how-to-read kind of books. Like right now I'm reading a book about, I don't know, how to craft the perfect sentence. That's not what it's called. I'm going to finish it first, and then I'll tell you about it if I like it to the end, or I'll tell you about it with my complete opinion.

[00:11:29] But I spent forever with Jane Smiley's 13 Ways of Looking at the Novel. Right now I'm loving reading through my annotated like 700-page edition of Pride and Prejudice with Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club. I've read old Anne Tyler and Toni Morrison, and a couple of older books I'm going to talk about today as my favorites.

And I've just really enjoyed taking the time to, I don't know, like read the stuff that doesn't have a reason for me to read it right now, except that I want to, which is different from reading for a Summer Reading Guide or a Fall Book Preview. I got to go to the beach, and for the first time in a couple years, read almost a book every single day, in part because some were 200 pages. And there was an exception. I read a 500-plus page novel that I'm really excited about for fall that took me two days. And I read some backlist. I've just really enjoyed going, I don't know, just spending a lot of time with good books.

[00:12:23] I have had two, not really slumpy exactly, but there were two different times this summer where I stalled out. And once, I was reading a book that's coming this fall that I've already seen so highly praised, and I could tell, stylistically, this is gorgeous, but I don't care. And I just didn't want to read. You know, I'd pick it up, I'd read 10 pages, I'd be like, "That's enough for tonight." So I kinda stalled out for a week.

And then I was reading something else that was older earlier in the summer, where again, didn't care. I mean, I powered through, and then I moved on. Powered through might be the wrong phrase. I decided I do actually want to complete this book, and I did it slowly, and then I moved on.

DONNA: You stayed the course.

ANNE: Yeah. I had something good happening in my ears in, you know, the meantime, so I was still enjoying good books. But on the whole, it's been fun, and a mix of like frothy, and nerdy, and forthcoming, and old, and... I mean, this is the same kind of thing I always say, I think, actually.

GINGER: That's a good mix, though.

ANNE: It's a nice mix. It's a nice mix.

GINGER: Yeah, we like that.

ANNE: And this is what the mix often looks like in June, July, and August.

[00:13:34] LEIGH: I mean, there could be a year where it'll be completely different. So I want to know, are things the same?

GINGER: That's right.

LEIGH: Or are you doing things differently?

ANNE: When we do the Summer Reading Guide that's the pre-2000 edition, it'll look so different. We'll see. Okay, so we enjoyed talking a little bit before we hit the record button about how we chose our favorites and then, you know, made a joke that we should have been recording. But we all want different things from our summer reading. I'm talking to our listeners, but also just looking at the four of us, we all want different things from our summer reading and measure success by different outcomes. So what I'd really love to hear is, as you sat down to choose your best favorite superlative for today, how were you thinking about what you might choose? Donna, how'd you choose?

DONNA: Well, Anne, I went to my spreadsheet, I did, and I filtered on five-star ratings. And then I kind of like to look for a theme, see if anything pops out, which it did, and it is nonstop action are what my two picks are. And then I also try to do ones that maybe are a little bit different. Maybe people haven't heard of them, maybe different from your picks. And that's how I came up with my two.

[00:15:00] ANNE: Donna, what makes a five-star read for you?

DONNA: It's like instinctual to me. It's hard for me to describe. It just is a feeling where I was so immersed in that book, I wasn't even aware of what was going around me. I can tell when I'm just living in a book, and that is what happened with these two books.

ANNE: So I hear you say spreadsheet a lot, which sounds like math, math, data-driven, but you got some poetry in there too. Wait, that sounds like a genre. You've got-

DONNA: I do.

ANNE: It's emotional math.

GINGER: Anne has some insider knowledge of this spreadsheet.

ANNE: Vibes plus math. I was trying not to say vibes. That word is... I'm over that word.

DONNA: It is, though. It is. It's just a feeling that I have.

ANNE: Mm-hmm.

GINGER: An art and a science.

LEIGH: Yeah.

ANNE: Oh, that's a good way to put it.

DONNA: Thanks, Ginger.

ANNE: Leigh, what were you considering?

[00:15:55] LEIGH: I keep a note with all of my five-star reads for the year, so I just pulled that up. And honestly, I only have probably 15 five-star reads so far this year. So I thought about, of the five-star reads, which are the ones that I have thought about the most and that I have recommended the most to friends, and that's what I came up with.

GINGER: I like that framework of recommending. That's a great one. I'm going to keep that in mind.

ANNE: Love it. Ginger, how'd you do it?

GINGER: Well, I really was thinking in two different directions. One, I wanted to share something that I hadn't talked much about but that I did love because book club members know that we just had our Best Book of the Summer event in book club, where members share theirs, and I gushed about Finding Grace. I think that's such a buzzy book that is on a lot of people's radar.

[00:16:51] I also had so many good experiences. I took down Paradise Pawn from the Summer Reading Guide in one sitting, like one day, which is really rare for me. I'm a slow reader. So what I was sort of thinking about is... I mean, I could talk about one of those buzzy books that everybody is probably already aware of, but I wanted to talk about my favorite reading experience. So those were such fun books, but I wanted to talk about the book that sort of obsessed me, that I sunk into. It was unexpected, it was surprising, and it sent me off in other directions, trips and research. So I wanted to talk about my favorite reading experience today.

ANNE: Trips.

GINGER: Mm-hmm. Well, I don't know which one came first. Did the book inspire the trip or did the trip inspire the book? We'll see. We'll talk about it.

ANNE: Intriguing. Not thinking of everywhere I know you've been. We did not share our books in advance.

GINGER: Nope.

ANNE: So this is our reveal to each other as well as to y'all. Okay, are we ready?

LEIGH: Yeah.

ANNE: Any final words before we launch into favorites?

LEIGH: I just want to note that I'm always accused of talking about more books than we're technically allowed, but I have not done that at all. Anne and Ginger have both been sneaking in extra titles.

GINGER: It's true.

LEIGH: And I clocked it.

[00:18:10] ANNE: Ginger did sneak in Augustine twice.

GINGER: Definitely. Always.

ANNE: We all saw that. All right. Leigh, your gold star will be in the mail shortly.

LEIGH: Thank you. Thank you.

ANNE: Donna, would you do us the honor of starting us off?

DONNA: I will. Remember, the theme is nonstop action. Book number one is Lightlark by Alex Aster. This is a romantasy book. It is the beginning of a series. I actually don't know how many are going to be in the series, but the second one does come out in April of next year.

I think one of the things I loved about it is it really reminded me of The Hunger Games, which are some of my favorite books and favorite movies. And I've been looking for another book that has that same kind of similar elements to it. So there's kind of this hierarchy of the haves and have-nots, but in this case, the haves, what they have is magic, and then other people do not. But there's something that happens every 50 years where the have-nots can get some magic.

[00:19:24] And there is a set of brutal, and I mean brutal, trials that happen as part of this quest to get some magic. I also really love this book because there is an enemies-to-lovers trope, but what I really want to point out is that they are really enemies. I feel like a lot of times when I see that trope, there's just not much to it, and so it doesn't feel like much of a change to go from, quote-unquote, enemies to lovers. But here, there is really something very serious keeping them apart, and I find that very intriguing. And I think you need that when it's a long series. You need something serious. But yeah, just a total page-turner and highly recommend.

GINGER: I think a lot of readers' ears perked up when you said The Hunger Games, so.

DONNA: Yes. But it does have that brutality, right? I mean, The Hunger Games is no joke, and so I wanted to make sure people understand that there is a violent side to this book.

[00:20:31] LEIGH: I mean, you had me at enemies to lovers that are real enemies. I like those high stakes of not knowing how is the author going to pull this off? How are they going to make me believe in this?

DONNA: Exactly, yes. All right. We'll see if you're interested in book two. It is called Cold Zero. This is by Brad Thor and Ward Larsen. I wanted to highlight this book because I feel like a lot of people, maybe in particular women, would pass this book by on a shelf because it kind of looks like a dude book, is what I've been calling it. There's a big picture of a dude on the back.

Actually, one of the authors, Ward Larsen, he writes for the Tom Clancy estate, so they do write military books and thrillers, things like that. But I think that if you enjoy T.J. Newman's books, like Drowning, you're going to love this. Or it also reminded me of the movies like Crimson Tide or The Hunt for Red October. I love those movies. So if that is your vibe, if you like a kind of a spy international thriller, this is a good book. And it does have a female lead protagonist, which kind of surprised me and I think really helped draw me in.

[00:22:01] So it starts with a bang. A plane goes down in the middle of nowhere, and I mean nowhere, in the Antarctic. There's something on this plane that multiple countries want. So now there is a race to the plane to get this thing, which I'm purposely not describing. And when I say nonstop action, I mean it. It is just one thing after another. And it's kind of like watching, you know, one of those movies that I just described. And in fact, Netflix has said they have bought the rights to this, and they said that they're going to make a big movie out of it, which I hope they do, because the book is very cinematic. Again, I just couldn't put it down. So that's Cold Zero. Those are my two.

ANNE: Wow. Ooh, I'm really intrigued by Cold Zero. That sounds like the kind of book I love occasionally. And I think it's so... I don't know what's happening here that I've read three books in the past... I don't remember when I read the Charlotte McConaghy set at one of the poles, but I've read three books that have been Arctic or Antarctic just in the past couple months that I've really enjoyed. So why not make it four?

LEIGH: Why not?

[00:23:15] GINGER: I would like to say, too, that my best book of summer last year was a military book, so I'm kind of like putting this in that category of sometimes that's really surprising, because non-stop action is often there.

LEIGH: Sounds good.

ANNE: Okay. Thank you, Donna.

DONNA: You're welcome.

ANNE: All right, Leigh, here you are with your not more than two, not dropping extra titles. You know I'm totally kidding. Here, what do you have for us?

LEIGH: I'm behaving today, but that's also because I know that we have a Patreon vote.

ANNE: Oh, don't disappoint people.

GINGER: Don't change now.

LEIGH: Okay. I'm actually going to surprise everyone, and this is a good segue from the book that Donna just shared, and I am going to recommend a crime novel.

ANNE: What?

GINGER: Come on, now.

LEIGH: Surprise.

GINGER: Leigh, we said yesterday in team meeting, we don't know you, so this is a surprise.

LEIGH: Always keep people guessing. So this is Murder Mindfully by Karsten Dusse. It was originally published in Germany, and it's now being translated into English and published here. And it's also apparently a Netflix series, so people may have heard about it that way. But this was so up my alley, even though I don't read very many crime novels at all. But once you hear the premise, you'll be like, "I understand why Leigh wanted to read this."

So criminal defense lawyer Björn's wife has given him an ultimatum, so he starts seeing a mindfulness coach, and this changes him in very surprising ways. I love mindfulness. It was my favorite class that I took in grad school when I got my master's in social work, so this was my entry point.

So when Björn's mobster client makes demands that will interfere with his time with his daughter Emily, it's the perfect opportunity to apply the mindfulness techniques he's been learning. And if that means he accidentally or not so accidentally kills his client and anyone else who stands in his way, well, sometimes that happens.

[00:25:17] And it includes excerpts from this fictional Slowing Down in the Fast Lane: Mindfulness for Managers book, and Björn is always consulting the book of like how should he approach this situation. Some great dark humor, so delightful.

The second book, My Inner Child Wants to Kill, came out August 4th, and I'm excited to read that next. And I really hope that the rest of the series is translated, because I want to read more. This was so much fun.

ANNE: I'm loving the zaniness of organized crime plus mindfulness.

LEIGH: Yes. Right?

DONNA: Amazing.

ANNE: You know, I want to read thrillers in German. I'm thinking, "Can I read this?" No, I don't think I can. I don't think I'm-

LEIGH: I was thinking that it might have specific appeal to you, Anne, because of your project. But you could get the side-by-side comparison going, so feel like you might want to give it a go.

GINGER: Hopefully they do translate those for you, Leigh, but if they don't, you can have Anne read the rest of them and just tell you what happens.

LEIGH: Yes.

[00:26:18] ANNE: I don't know. I believe I might be missing some of the specific vocabulary necessary to truly understand these. I don't know how to describe the inner workings of any organization, let alone one that it sounds like is involved in this book. But, you know, you gotta learn and grow in your language skills, so maybe this is my opportunity. I just maybe need to not use those words in conversation.

LEIGH: I mean, haven't you always wanted to learn about crime in German?

GINGER: That'll come in handy.

LEIGH: I feel like Anne's going to start-

ANNE: This is the book for me.

LEIGH: ...bringing these mindfulness techniques into our team meetings. Better watch out.

GINGER: Hopefully the mindfulness and not the crime. Let's-

LEIGH: Not the murder. All right. For my second book we're going to do choose your own adventure style, and I'm going to make you pick, so nonfiction or romance.

[00:27:15] GINGER: Okay, I'm only basing this on what I'm bringing, which is not nonfiction, and so I'd love a little nonfiction in this mix. We haven't had any so far.

DONNA: Sounds good to me.

ANNE: I agree.

LEIGH: Okay. Well, this is actually not too far from a crime novel, but it is nonfiction. So it's called Unreasonable Women: Three Stories of Violence, Imprisonment, and Extraordinary Survival by Justine van der Leun. This might be the most important nonfiction book that I'll read this year. It's difficult, but it was very compelling, very well-written. So van der Leun is a journalist, and she follows three women incarcerated for murder, even though they were actually protecting themselves after years of abuse. So this really is examining criminalized survival and just how many people are complicit, from family members to the so-called justice system.

[00:28:13] While the stories are hard to read at times, I definitely want to emphasize that you should look at the content warnings. But it's very important to not look away from what is happening. I really hope that this book leads to real change. It was just so, so well done.

ANNE: I hadn't heard of this until our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club member best books, which put this on my radar. Several readers just raved about it. It's interesting that the universe is now bringing it to me again.

LEIGH: It's truly so, so well done. I really want more people to read it. I mean, it just came out in the last couple of months, but I was just very impressed with how she structured everything and how she grapples with the ethics. And also I just hope that certain prosecutors are haunted for the rest of their lives by their misdeeds. I don't think that they are, but I hope that this book leads to some suffering, as I say with a smile.

[00:29:15] GINGER: Well, I'm glad you actually brought that one, Leigh, because it does feel like one that deserves to be put in front of more people. But I do have to ask, are you going to share your other path of the choose your own adventure on the Patreon bonus episode?

LEIGH: Yes, yes. So the romance picks will go on the Patreon bonus.

GINGER: We'll hear about that one, too.

ANNE: I appreciate the quick yes. I get to go next. First, I'm going to repeat one that I shared in our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club Best Books of Summer. And that is Last Night in Montreal by Emily St. John Mandel, which I chose as the... actually, I chose both of these as the reading experience. I thought they were both very well done, finely crafted, or whatever snooty lit critic superlative you want to use. But it was the reading experience that made this for me. And part of that reading experience was this was the third Emily St. John Mandel book I read in quick succession. I'm now a completist. There will be a blog post on Modern Mrs. Darcy coming your way before too long.

[00:30:20] But I read Exit Party for Fall Book Preview. I'll be talking about that then. And then for reasons involving overlapping characters, I read The Singer's Gun when Holly, What Should I Read Next? alum, organized a community read over there. And then I thought, "Well, I'm so close. I'm just going to finish," and I picked up Last Night in Montreal, which I found out after I finished was her debut that was plucked from the slush pile by the person who became her agent, and then it was finally sold to a small press, and everything changed with Station Eleven. But I didn't know that backstory for her early novels that I didn't hear of until after Station Eleven had already sold a bajillion copies.

But I really enjoyed the reading experience of sinking into a story with three Emily St. John Mandel books ringing in my ears. I feel like that kind of immersive experience really let me notice style and approach in the way she talks to the reader and kind of makes an argument in her books in a way that I wouldn't have had I just picked this up out of the blue. You know, 2020 Anne would've had a very different experience with this book.

[00:31:31] But I so enjoyed the lit class I was running in my head on this book. And I highlighted a bunch, and my annotations are ample in the front of my book, and I dog-eared and bookmarked and made notes and Googled.

Last Night in Montreal is about a woman who has been constantly moving since she was seven years old and was escaping something scary. Her father, who she hadn't seen in years at that point, comes to take her away in the middle of the night. And the mother is distraught in the morning, goes to authorities. But throughout the book, you are not entirely sure that it wasn't a good thing that she was spirited away. But you're not entirely sure because taking a child out of her bed when she's seven years old in the middle of a brutally cold Montreal winter, which that's not the last night of the title, well, there's a lot to explore there.

[00:32:28] So throughout the book, she's constantly on the run. The story begins when she skips out of her boyfriend's house in New York City in more the present day. She's 20-something years old, and he always knew that she was going to leave at some point because she doesn't stay in one place very long, but he yet still didn't believe that she would leave him, and he goes to search for her. And interspersed, we have the story of him looking for her in the present day and her entire history of never spending more than six weeks in any place since she was seven years old.

The first line of this book is, "No one stays forever." And how many times can I use the word nerdy? I really enjoyed... It felt like it was done with a light touch, but I'd read three Emily St. John Mandel books in a row at this point, which her new one is much more in the realm of science fiction fantasy, and yet so many of the themes were the same. Like, how does one choice we make in a moment impact the trajectory of our entire lives? Like, how might things have been different if only?

[00:33:31] And several characters in the book are living arguments for the beauty and fulfillment of staying in one place, and others really argue with their lives and actions for the necessity of being on the run. We have a PI trying to hunt her down. We have characters at odds. I mean, there's just a lot of good stuff here. I enjoyed it. It wasn't long. It was only 200-something pages. Just over 200. I read it quickly, but I just really enjoyed reading this with my pen in hand and my notebook early in the morning at the time I do my more like scholarly reading. But had this been queued up for me at the beach, I would've happily read it there. It would've suited me in either place. So that's Emily St. John Mandel.

GINGER: I love a backlist.

[00:34:16] ANNE: Which does not have a 4.3. Not even close. And then my other one, again, definitely an experience for me in this season of my life, and that is Prague Spring by Simon Mawer. I chose Prague Spring because this was a book for me in this season. It's not super old. It was just published 10-ish years... Let's see. The copyright is 2018, but it's about events that happened in the summer of 1968.

I haven't really talked about this, but Will and I took our boys to visit Mel and Dave of Strong Sense of Place — I know many of you are listeners and fans of their work — in April. And we were browsing at this little bookstore in Prague, and Mel said, "Oh, Simon Mawer. Prague Spring. I love that book." And I said, "Sold." And I took it home with me, and I didn't read it until we went to the beach in July.

[00:35:12] But I wasn't familiar with Simon Mawer's work, although maybe some of you will be. He was shortlisted for the Booker for The Glass Room, which I now want to go on and read, because I enjoyed this one so much. But I am wondering if this was the unique combination of the book I wanted. But I don't know. I thought this was going to be very, very serious, and when I picked it up, it read almost like a spy novel.

But something that's so interesting about this book is it's called Prague Spring, which is a real historical event. And what happens is we're looking at two couples. One is university students at Oxford who are spending the summer hitchhiking through Europe, and the other is a British diplomat stationed in Prague, and a younger Czech political activist.

[00:36:05] So as they are living their lives in the summer of 1968, the reader knows that Russian tanks are going to roll in to Wenceslas Square on August 20th. This is historical fiction. That was a historical event. But when you meet these characters in June, the Oxford couple, oh, they are young and snippy, and one is in love with the other, but it's not reciprocated, and they're kind of whining, and they want to have an adventure, and they're not quite sure what they want. And they're making their decisions about what cities to go to based on, like, literally rolling dice. Which is how they end up in Prague.

But the other couple, the diplomat and the political activist, have very different interests in what's happening in Prague that spring. And, like, here's a little history lesson, because you didn't go on the amazing post-World War II and communism tour that I went on in Prague, which was an amazing backdrop to this book.

So in January 1968, the Czechoslovakian Communist Party appointed this man named Dubček to be its new chairman, and he believed in socialism with a face. And very quickly, beginning in 1968, restrictions were loosened. Western books and radio were allowed into the country. There wasn't press censorship to the extent there had been. Like, artistic and cultural freedom greatly increased, and you can see characters in the book saying, "Things are changing. Like, we are opening to the West. We're freer. We're going to keep moving in this direction."

[00:37:39] And Khrushchev did not agree, made threats to Dubček, who was like, "Yeah, yeah, this is fine. I'll, we're going to work it out. We can all stay friends," because he was loyal to the Russians. And the Russians keep saying, "You gotta tighten this back up," and he's like, "You don't really mean that, do you?" And then in late August, the tanks rolled in.

DONNA: Oh, no.

ANNE: So there's this impending sense of doom because you know what is going to happen, and you know the characters have no idea. And yet, even though I knew this history, there are things in the book that I didn't know really happened. Like the Moody Blues were playing on the Charles Bridge the night before the tanks rolled into the city, and they were trapped. Shirley Temple was in Prague when the tanks rolled in. And in the story, they're figuring out how to spirit out the Americans or the Brits while, you know, the Czech people are stuck.

[00:38:34] But reading about this book with history that I had just been, I mean, for an eight-day trip, immersed in, and places that I had just been and sights I'd just seen with my own eyes, it was just great timing. And also not the book I expected. I thought it was going to be a chore that would make me a better reader, you know, that I should read. But from about page two, I was like, "Well, I didn't know it was going to be like this. Why didn't anyone tell me?" Mel told me. Mel told me. I should have known.

GINGER: That does sound like a good summer reading experience, for sure.

LEIGH: No, that sounds very, very good. I don't read a lot of historical, but yeah, that appeals.

ANNE: That's fun. I mean, it was a very intellectually and emotionally satisfying kind of fun. All right, Ginger, we saved you for last because you took a different take than Donna, Leigh, or I did.

GINGER: Yes.

ANNE: Tell us everything.

[00:39:33] GINGER: I love the torturous experience of deciding about one book. And I kind of already told you my qualification there is that I was trying to decide on what has been my best reading experience for the summer. So you're not going to get off that easy. I did bring a classic, depending on how you define classic, but it's not as old as Augustine.

So it is written in 1975, and that book is Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow. So this, you might have guessed, I am second only to books is my obsession with Broadway. I don't talk about it a lot, but I read a lot of show biz memoirs, and I read a lot of the source material. I have read the entirety of Hamilton by Ron Chernow because I wanted to annotate that with the lyrics of the play, the musical.

[00:40:20] So when I heard that Joshua Henry, whose career I followed for years and years since Tick, Tick... Boom! was on Netflix, when I heard that he won the Tony, if you have not seen that NPR Tiny Desk concert with him singing Let Them Hear You, please go do that as soon as you're done with this episode. I just got obsessed. I thought, "I knew he was in Ragtime. I've gotta see it."

So my husband and I booked a quick trip to New York on the train. I grabbed the book to read on the train, and I have been listening to the soundtrack forever. But I really didn't know much else about the origin story or anything, but I just got obsessed. So reading this on the train on the way up to see Joshua Henry as he ends his run really shortly, actually, was just such a delight, kind of having the soundtrack in my ears and the book in my hands and, you know, going to this place where the story takes place, New York. It was so immersive.

[00:41:17] I didn't quite finish it on the trip itself, and so after I got home, I was still continuing just to research the references, the Broadway lyrics. I was annotating that book, again, with all the lyrics that I knew in my head. It was just such a delightful immersive. Since then, I've been buying old books on ragtime music itself. I mean, I love when a book influences a trip, and the trip influences music, and the music influences learning about the music. That is my favorite kind.

A little bit about this book itself. It is pretty standard size, like just over 300 pages, but I do not know how E.L. Doctorow fits in this many characters. So lest it sounds like a dull, dusty classic, it feels very timely and very modern. He shoves so many... The three main characters, yes, but their family members, their friends and neighbors. There are historical figures in here, like we... You mentioned Shirley Temple. That was so funny because Evelyn Nesbit, Houdini, J.P. Morgan, like there are these historical figures that come into the book and the play that are just really fun to see how they intersect, how their lives intersect.

[00:42:28] I had the best time reading this. It is really present writing. Like I said, it's not too long, but it almost feels like Hemingway-esque in that it's short and terse and propulsive. And because you're following so many characters, there is a lot of action, again, in this book. Yeah, Donna. I just loved it. I mean, I loved the experience certainly, but I was so surprised that this book has some things to say about the immigrant experience, about women's experience in the home and outside of the home. It had a lot going on, and yet it was pulled off so successfully.

LEIGH: I'm going to sound ignorant, but I didn't realize that the show was based on a book.

DONNA: I didn't either.

GINGER: Truly. Me neither. That's it. Yeah, exactly. That's-

LEIGH: I was like, "Does everyone know this?"

[00:43:15] GINGER: No. And what I really love is when you do sometimes read Broadway source material, how seriously the people that write the book for a Broadway show are drawing on. I mean, there are some exact quotes I cannot give away. It is a huge plot point. If I tell you, my favorite line of the entire soundtrack is a really shocking line from the younger brother, and it is word for word in the book. And I mean, when I tell you I laughed out loud, I laughed. I honked a laugh out loud, because I was not expecting to see that humor folded in there. And it's always a surprise to me, no matter how many times I've heard.

LEIGH: That's so fun.

GINGER: It was a really good time.

ANNE: I love that for you, and I love a field trip. Is this the reason you went to New York?

GINGER: I think the impetus was Joshua Henry was finishing his run on Broadway, and I just wanted to be in the room with that man's voice. So I think it's in 10 days from the time we're recording, so I knew that that was my moment. I hope he goes on to do even bigger and better things in the world, because he's a delightful human. But if this is the pinnacle of his career, he has done something extraordinary with his life. Again, I mean, just go listen to that man's voice is extraordinary.

[00:44:27] ANNE: I mean, if we must, we must.

GINGER: Well, you must.

ANNE: Yeah, we must.

LEIGH: This is my kind of homework.

GINGER: Yes, exactly.

ANNE: Any parting thoughts or peeks into what you might be talking about in the Patreon bonus?

GINGER: I did hard work. Now, I could talk about books all day, but I decided on one. And, really truly so many of my great reading experiences this year have been summer reading guidebooks. I mean, if I can break all the rules and just say Country People and Trash and Main Characters, like, Anne picked out some great-

DONNA: Cheater.

GINGER: ...SNG books. I'm not talking about them, I'm just saying I loved those titles. Is that allowed?

ANNE: We're never going to tsk-tsk in our buddy for sharing more books they loved.

LEIGH: I'm truly impressed by the way you're just able to weave that in. I feel like your sneakiness inspires me to be more sneaky the next time.

[00:45:27] GINGER: A maximalist will come with one title, if you can hear the air quotes there, and somehow also mention six others.

LEIGH: Yeah.

ANNE: I said very clearly up top, you make your own rules. Thank you all so much for coming on to talk favorites. It's always a pleasure.

GINGER: This was great.

LEIGH: It was so fun.

DONNA: Had a great time.

ANNE: Hey, readers. I hope you enjoyed this first part of our team's conversation about their best books of summer. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com. Keep up with our show and other happenings, like our upcoming Fall Book Preview, by signing up for our email updates at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/newsletter.

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[00:46:31] Find us on Instagram at whatshouldireadnext. We love it when you help us spread the book love by sharing our posts or commenting and responding.

And thank you to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by executive producer Will Bogel, Media production specialist Holly Wielkoszewski, social media manager and editor Leigh Kramer, community coordinator Brigid Misselhorn, community manager Shannan Malone, and our whole team at What Should I Read Next? and Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ. Plus the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production.

Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.