The first time I stood in front of the Gates of Paradise at the BYU Museum of Art, I didn’t move. I couldn’t speak.

A month before, I had come from presenting at a symposium at BYU–Hawaii—ironically, I spoke right before Sharon Gray, the woman whose discovery made this entire story possible.
The story, as Sharon recounted it, still seems incredible to me today.

In 2015, while serving as a missionary at BYU–Hawaii, she was assigned what sounded like a routine (and tedious) task: cleaning out a cluttered storage room in the McKay building. Buried among ceramics, dust, and decades of accumulation were large wooden crates no one seemed to want.

When she finally reached them, she peeled back a layer of bubble wrap and saw a face.
But this wasn’t any face–it was a face from the Renaissance.

“I know what these are,” she remembers thinking. “Why are these here?”

Inside those crates were gypsum casts of Lorenzo Ghiberti’s Gates of Paradise—the famed bronze doors of the Florence Baptistery, commissioned in 1425 and completed over the ensuing 27 years. The Gates of Paradise was a masterpiece so influential that Michelangelo himself reportedly declared them worthy of paradise.

And somehow, a full set of these casts had been sitting, largely forgotten, in a relatively small college town on the windward side of Oahu, Hawaii for over three decades.

Florence > Laie > Provo
Standing in disbelief, Sharon eventually called the BYU Museum of Art. Conversations began.

Experts were brought in.

Crates were opened in what participants described as an “Indiana Jones moment”—a careful unveiling of something both fragile and inconceivable.
Despite decades in less than perfect storage conditions, the casts were salvageable.

That set in motion a ten-year effort that was one part art conservation and one part educational experiment. Led by museum professionals and leveraging a small army of students, the project quickly became a hands-on restoration lab. 13,000+ hours went into repairing surfaces, recovering lost detail, and eventually gilding each panel to closely mimicking the brilliance of the original doors.
White, dusty plaster had transformed into art that was both breathtaking and beautiful.

Discovery
At the symposium in Hawaii, Sharon showed images of crates, straw packing, and fragile surfaces. She spoke with a responsibility to “tell it correctly.”

Literally weeks later, in Provo, I watched those same forms catch light.

The museum installation doesn’t replicate the original doors’ function—they no longer swing open—but the design still carries that sense of threshold. Of encountering Deity.

Each panel holds tentpole narratives from the Old Testament—Adam & Eve, Noah & Family, Jacob & Esau, Moses & The Israelites, David & Goliath, Cain & Abel, Abraham & Isaac, Joseph & His Brothers, Joshua & Jericho, and Solomon & the Queen of Sheba. All are rendered with a depth and perspective that helped define early Renaissance sculpture.

Standing close, I could see both the fingerprints of Ghiberti’s vision and the eager students who carefully restored these plaster surfaces centuries later.

The Gates of Paradise, as they are at the MOA, are a collaboration across distance and time.

These doors, the originals created for a specific place and purpose in Florence, Italy, now have a new permanent home in Provo, Utah. It reminds me that transcendent art can and should adapt just as its depth of meaning endures.

Rediscovery
There’s a line Sharon shared that really impacted me: “I believe that our God is a God of found things.”

Maybe this story isn’t about rediscovered artwork; maybe it’s about initially overlooking value and about people—students, donors, curators, missionaries—choosing to recognize significance when they find it.

And, maybe it’s also about timing.

The casts arrived in Hawaii in 1984—the same year Sharon studied in Florence. Decades later, she would be the one to uncover them. Decades after that, they would finally be seen.
Standing in the museum, I considered that this convergence did not feel like coincidence.

 

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Restoration
As I left the gallery, I found myself doing what the exhibit subtly invites: slowing down and pondering.

The educational materials, the 3D reproductions, the immersive design—all are incredible (as every BYU MOA exhibit tends to be).

For me, the true impact happened in silence, when it was just me and the Gates of Paradise. In that stillness, the panels spoke—of divine creation, and of divine restoration.

My mind kept going back to that humid storage room in Hawai‘i—the crates and the forgotten plaster hidden under years of dust.

And then . . .

The moment of discovery when the light broke through the first crate and the bubble wrap underneath, revealing the renaissance-era crafted faces.. What was once overlooked was found.

Then, what was fragile was carefully renewed.

The dull and decaying plaster was gilded until its bright gold reflected the rays of heaven.
I realize that I’m not all that different from those plaster casts—broken here and there, worn by the decades, in need of the Master’s touch to be all I can and should be.

Our Savior is in relentless pursuit of us–throughout our life, He finds us in the forgotten crevices and corners where we’ve been left, unseen and unsightly, and begins the slow, patient work of restoration. His mercy reinforces what’s cracked, His love replaces what’s missing, and His Atonement gilds what was plain until His light is reflected in our very essence.

What was forgotten becomes holy.

That is the miracle of Christ—our Refiner and Redeemer—who transforms us and reveals our natures as His true masterpieces.

April 2026 General Conference: Saturday Sessions

The Saturday sessions of General Conference marked a historic and spiritually meaningful day for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints around the world. These sessions were especially significant because they included a solemn assembly following the calling of a new President of the Church, President Dallin H. Oaks.

Throughout the day, speakers repeatedly invited listeners to draw closer to Jesus Christ, strengthen their faith, serve others, and remain steady in a world filled with uncertainty. A consistent message emerged from both sessions: discipleship to Jesus Christ is the answer to life’s challenges, and ministering to others is central to living the gospel.

The Saturday sessions also included leadership changes, reports on Church growth, and messages emphasizing unity, love, covenant living, and personal conversion.

President Dallin H. Oaks

President Dallin H. Oaks opened the Saturday morning session by explaining the significance of the solemn assembly and the sacred responsibility of sustaining Church leaders. He emphasized that solemn assemblies are rare and sacred, occurring only when a new President of the Church is called. President Oaks expressed gratitude for the sustaining vote of members worldwide and acknowledged the growth of the Church, now reaching millions across many nations. He testified that Jesus Christ leads His Church and that leaders seek revelation to guide their decisions. President Oaks encouraged members to sustain leaders not only through raised hands but through prayer, faith, and personal discipleship.

Elder Patrick Kearon — About His Business

Elder Patrick Kearon spoke about sustaining leaders and faithfully serving in callings. He shared a personal story from shortly after his conversion in London, when he was called to serve as assistant ward clerk. The simple act of being sustained by ward members left a lasting impression on him. He taught that sustaining others means supporting them with faith, patience, and encouragement. Elder Kearon emphasized that callings are opportunities for growth and spiritual development, even when they stretch individuals beyond their comfort zones. He invited members to serve with humility and follow the Savior’s example by being “about His business” and blessing others through faithful service.

Kristen M. Yee — Ministering With Love

Kristen M. Yee taught about ministering with Christlike love and compassion. She emphasized that ministering is central to discipleship and helps individuals become more like the Savior. Sister Yee explained that ministering often requires sacrifice and intentional effort, but it brings spiritual growth and deeper connections. She encouraged members to look for opportunities to serve one person at a time, following Jesus Christ’s example. She taught that when individuals minister, they become instruments in God’s hands and help answer prayers. Sister Yee testified that ministering transforms both the giver and receiver, strengthening unity and love within families, wards, and communities.

Elder Clark G. Gilbert — Come Home

Elder Clark G. Gilbert spoke about returning to faith and coming home to Jesus Christ. He acknowledged that many individuals experience doubts or struggles and reassured listeners that faith can grow even during uncertainty. He shared stories of individuals who found their way back to the Church and emphasized the importance of welcoming others. He shared an example from BYU students holding up lights to invite others to sit with them, symbolizing belonging. Elder Gilbert taught that Jesus Christ continually invites individuals to return and find peace. He encouraged members to create welcoming environments and help others reconnect with faith.

Elder David A. Bednar — Enduring With Charity

Elder David A. Bednar taught that enduring to the end involves developing charity, the pure love of Christ. He explained that enduring is not simply surviving trials but becoming transformed through Christlike love. Elder Bednar emphasized that charity changes hearts and strengthens faith. He encouraged members to seek charity through prayer, service, and obedience. He taught that individuals who develop charity become more patient, kind, and Christlike. Elder Bednar testified that charity enables disciples to endure challenges and remain faithful throughout their lives. He invited listeners to focus on becoming rather than simply enduring.

Elder Michael John U. Teh

Michael John U. Teh spoke about trusting prophetic guidance and following the Lord’s direction. He emphasized that prophets help guide members through uncertainty and challenges. Elder Teh encouraged listeners to follow prophetic counsel even when it requires faith. He shared experiences illustrating how obedience leads to blessings and spiritual strength. He testified that following prophets brings clarity and protection. He encouraged members to study prophetic teachings and apply them in their lives.

Elder Jorge T. Becerra

Jorge T. Becerra spoke about putting God first and living with faith. He emphasized that obedience, including tithing and covenant keeping, demonstrates trust in God. He shared experiences showing how faith leads to blessings and spiritual growth. He encouraged members to prioritize God in daily decisions. Elder Becerra testified that when individuals put God first, they receive peace and guidance.

President Henry B. Eyring

President Henry B. Eyring concluded the morning session by speaking about prayer and divine help. He taught that Heavenly Father hears prayers and provides comfort. President Eyring encouraged members to seek guidance through prayer and trust the Lord’s timing. He testified that God loves His children and helps them through challenges.

Saturday Afternoon Session

Elder Gary E. Stevenson

Elder Gary E. Stevenson used an analogy about lost luggage at an airport to teach about caring for Heavenly Father’s children. He emphasized that each person matters and should be ministered to individually. Elder Stevenson encouraged members to strengthen youth and young adults and help them stay on the covenant path. He testified that ministering strengthens faith and unity.

Elder Eduardo F. Ortega

Eduardo F. Ortega spoke about gaining a testimony of Jesus Christ. He emphasized that testimony grows through prayer, scripture study, and obedience. He encouraged listeners to seek spiritual confirmation and strengthen their faith. He testified of Jesus Christ.

Elder Wan-liang Lu

Wan-liang Lu shared his conversion story and testimony. He described how learning about Jesus Christ changed his life. He emphasized faith, obedience, and discipleship.

Brother David Wunderli

David Wunderli taught that Jesus Christ is our relief during trials. He encouraged members to rely on Christ for peace and strength.

Elder Gérald Caussé

Gérald Caussé spoke about loving others individually. He encouraged members to follow Christ’s example.

Elder Brian J. Holmes

Brian J. Holmes taught about walking with Christ and staying faithful.

Elder Clement M. Matswagothata

Clement M. Matswagothata spoke about how Jesus Christ knows each individual personally.

Elder Ulisses Soares

Ulisses Soares concluded by teaching about Jesus Christ as the True Vine and discipleship.

Callings and Releases

New callings included:

Primary General Presidency:

• New President: Susan H. Porter
• First Counselor: Amy A. Wright
• Second Counselor: Tracy Y. Browning

Releases:

• Camille N. Johnson released from Primary presidency

Statistical Report

Membership: 17,887,212
Stakes: 3,600+
Missions: 400+

Some Major Themes . . .

• Follow Jesus Christ
• Minister to others
• Sustain leaders
• Strengthen faith
• Covenant living

In times of peace or turmoil, there is always hope in Jesus Christ because of his greater love for all. As we approach Easter, hear a special message about God’s love and what it means for each of us from President Dallin H. Oaks and his counselors in the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Technology has completely transformed how we connect with the world, but the power of a divine message remains constant. From the crackle of vintage 1920s radios and the first black-and-white broadcasts to the high-definition tablets in our kitchens today, “Tuned In” takes you on a journey through the history of General Conference. While the screens and speakers have changed, the invitation to “Come unto Me” and find rest in Jesus Christ has never wavered. What to Expect: A nostalgic look at families gathering around the radio and TV. The evolution of broadcasting technology within the Church. A powerful reminder of the consistency of prophetic word in modern times. Experience the next General Conference and find inspiration for your own life.

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf’s BYU–Hawaii devotional in March 2026 framed the “lift where you stand” piano story as a direct call to this generation of students to step into their present, not future, discipleship.

Standing in a campus under construction, Pres. Uchtdorf compared the rubble and rebuilding around them to the spiritual and intellectual foundations students are laying now, urging them to develop a vision for how their education and faith will bless children and grandchildren yet to come. He warmly praised their choice to spend yet another Sabbath hour in a devotional as evidence that they “love Jesus Christ” and “hunger and thirst after righteousness,” affirming that their optimism and enthusiasm for the Savior are “contagious.”

Recounting the story of ward members in Darmstadt, Germany, struggling to move a grand piano until they stood close together and “lift[ed] where [they] stand,” President Uchtdorf applied the parable to the global work of the restored Church in 2026—a world marked by division, poverty, and war. He testified that members of the restored Church have a unique, priesthood-centered mission, with additional scripture, temple covenants, and covenants that reach beyond the veil, and therefore “unto whom much is given, much is required.” Students, he stressed, are not only the future but the present of the Church, and must not postpone their contribution until “after the chemistry test.”

He pled with them to trust the Lord, anchor their identity in being disciples of Christ rather than in comparison, and find joy in anonymous, covenant-keeping service. Closing with a firm witness that Jesus Christ lives, actively leads His Church, and will guide them as they “stand close together and lift where [they] stand,” he promised miracles in their personal lives and in the lives they bless.

Five great quotes
“Stand close together and lift where you stand.”

“This is your time… not where you think you will be someday, but where you stand right now.”

“Being a disciple of Jesus Christ is not just one of many things you do. No—Jesus Christ is the motivating power behind everything you do.”

“You don’t have to lift the whole piano—just the part in front of you.”
​
“It’s not really about the piano. Heavenly Father is trying to move you.”

This Easter season let’s remember the greater love that Jesus Christ showed for all of us. The suffering that He experienced was terrible, but the reason He went through that suffering is wonderful. Jesus Christ suffered, died, and rose again for you. https://www.ChurchofJesusChrist.org/C…

“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” —John 15:13

Have you ever read Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day?

Well, the Friday that Jenny and I just had made Alexander’s day look only slightly annoying. If we wrote a book about it, the title might be:

“Jenny & John and the Frustrating, Cringey, Basement-Dwelling, Totally Cruddy Day.”

It was one of those days you wish you could skip entirely and start fresh the next morning. By noon, we were ready to call it quits and roll over into Saturday.

But preparing a talk on Elder Jeffrey R. Holland’s final General Conference message—“And Now I See”—shifted everything for me. Elder Holland’s words recalibrated my gaze toward Christ and reminded me that even in the middle of a no-good, very bad day, there are small and simple ways the Savior heals.

Just like Elder Holland, Bruce R. McConkie in his final testimony (April 1985) and Lehi speaking to his children in 2 Nephi left powerful parting messages. Elder Holland’s final address joins theirs as a gift meant to bless us if we listen and learn.

The Blind Man and a Muddy Miracle

Elder Holland begins with a story from the New Testament—a man blind from birth.

Jesus spat on the ground, made clay from the dust and His own spittle, anointed the man’s eyes, and told him to wash in a nearby pool. An unusual healing method, right? Most of us might have politely declined such a remedy.

But the man obeyed. And when he washed, he saw. For the first time in his life, he experienced light.

A simple act. A strange method. A miraculous outcome.

The Pattern of Simple Faith

This pattern repeats throughout scripture.

Take Naaman, the Syrian army captain. A celebrated warrior, but a leper. When a prophet told him to wash seven times in the muddy Jordan River, Naaman balked. He wanted something grand, not simple. Yet when he humbled himself and followed the prophet’s counsel, his skin was healed, and his heart was changed.

Or think of the Israelites in the wilderness. After venomous serpents bit them, God gave them a way to live: look at a brass serpent lifted on a pole. Many refused, thinking it too easy to make a difference. And yet, those who looked—lived.

Nephi explained it this way:

“By the easiness of the way, or the simpleness of it, many perished.” (1 Nephi 17:41)

Different prophets. Different people. Different challenges. But the same divine pattern:
God uses simple, even strange-seeming acts of faith to unleash His miraculous power.

Great Things from Small Means

Elder Holland connects this same truth to his own life. Just as clay healed the blind man, the Book of Mormon gave Elder Holland spiritual sight—helping him “see the beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

Alma captures the principle perfectly:

“By small and simple things are great things brought to pass.” (Alma 37:6–7)

In today’s language, it might sound like this:
“Big, life-changing results often come from small, ordinary actions. God uses daily, humble faith to humble the ‘experts’ and to save souls.”

So what are those small and simple things in our lives?

• Prayer.

• Scripture study.

• Listening to our leaders.

• Going to church and to the temple—not as a checklist, but to make and renew sacred covenants that bind us to Christ.

These are the ways we begin to see Him more clearly.

From Testimony to Transformation

Elder Holland’s closing testimony echoes the blind man’s and Naaman’s and every Israelite who decided to look and live. He said:

“I came to my whole-souled conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a true restoration of the New Testament Church… I could not deny the evidence of that restoration… I have had a thousand—ten thousand—other evidences that what I have spoken of today is true.”

Conversion doesn’t happen through grand displays—it grows through small, consistent acts of discipleship. As we trust God’s invitations, strange or simple though they may seem, we come to see what He wants for us and who He wants us to become.

Turning “No Good” into “Very Great”

Because of Jesus Christ, even our worst days can be transformed.

Alexander’s Terrible Day—and ours—can become a Wonderful, Marvelous, Really Awesome, Very Great Day.

Not because our problems magically disappear, but because we change. We begin to see Him—His grace, His humor, His refining power—in the middle of it all.

When we hang on through the hard days, we remember that there’s always “a twilight, a nighttime, and a dawn.”
Hope comes because of The Son.

John Dye serves as Executive Director at the Faith & Media Initiative—Emerging Leaders, an effort to improve how faith is portrayed in media.

Drawing on his background with Bonneville Communications and large campaigns for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, he now works with journalists, entertainment leaders, and creators/influencers on social platforms for more accurate, respectful, and nuanced depictions of those who are spiritual and religious. His aim is to change culture long term so all faiths are represented fairly in media.

Transcript:

Hello and welcome to the Latter-Day Profiles. I’m Brian Howard here on the campus of Brigham Young, University—Idaho. And joining me today is John, John Dye. John, it’s good to have you here.

Good to be back. It’s been a decade.

Yeah, been a decade. If people want to go back and watch that one, they can see how much I’ve changed. You look the same, which is great. You look great.

More hair, less hair, something.

Title, Executive Director of Faith & Media Initiative—Emerging Leaders. Also is a long-standing, what I’ve been with a lot of marketing, social media, working on Bonneville Communication, Skylight. You were President of Fluid Studio back in the day. So let’s talk briefly. Unless people want to rewind, they can go But let’s talk a little about your background and how you got into this whole marketing bit.

Yeah, it’s interesting because I am a proud alum, Rix College Viking, back in the day, and then ended up at BIO, got a master’s in English, got a bachelor’s in English than a Master’s. But yeah, I had aspirations to do some things, some teaching. Anyway, first job out of college was Policy and Procedure Analyst. Got really bored with that. I used the writing, but went into ad agency world and just started off as a copywriter, worked my way up to president. One of our main clients was Bonneville Communications. They worked with the Missionary Department of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. That’s really when they started to go from direct response. You might remember, you could request a copy of the Bible or the Book of Norman. Traditionally, those were done via TV ads, sometimes print ads. But there was this thing called the Internet, and they jumped on that. And so had a chance to work with them. And in 2012, you might remember that that was dubbed the Norman Moment when Mitt Romney was running for the President as as well as we had the Book of Norman musical come out.

And they had a digital director position open. And my heart was always with the church. I loved doing things when I was at Fluid with Bonneville. So jumped over to Bonneville Communications and subsequently worked there from 2012 to 2019 on such things as Meet the Mormons, I’m a Mormon, Light the World, The Giving Machine, some of those things. Then spent a few years at doTERRA over North American marketing, and then came back, most recently in 2022, to Desirate Management Corp. I work with Boncom again in the same office space, but work on something called the Faith and Media Initiative. Really, the goal there is we have a lot of faith in media doing this. We want them to do more of this. So it’s having more and more respectful and more, I guess you could say, actual representations of faith in media that are out there. We’re seeing that there’s a lot of the margins that are represented in media from a religious perspective or spiritual perspective. But rarely do you see a lot of them get the story right them get that right. And so we are lobbying, basically, for more representation of faith in media.

Now, how did that come about? Because you were doing a skylight project, I believe, which was just trying to connect more younger Other People with God or Forth Faith. Tell me about that project, first of all, because it’s really interesting because a lot of people feel like there’s a loss of people who are faithful or believe in religion, that thing.

Yeah. So there was a term used It was called the Rise of the Nuns, N-O-N-E-S. So younger people, traditionally 18 to 35, we call them Genzenials, so Gen Z plus the younger portion of millennials. They were turning away from organized religion for quite some time. We’ve seen that curb. We’re now in 2025 when we’re recording this, but we’ve seen that curb and stop, which is good, which is wonderful. But we saw this rise of the nuns. So they were still spiritual but not religious. And so with Skylight, we knew that there was a rise of those individuals that were turning away from organized religion, but again, still had some spirituality. We wanted, though, we had an effort. Skylight was an effort to create a connection with divinity and these individuals. Again, when I say they were spiritual, they had different types of things. They still had the desire to be spiritual. But a lot of them, again, were turning away from traditional prayer and traditional rights that many of us adhere to. We weren’t telling them what to do, but we would have activities or exercises, 3-5 minutes. Think of prayer, think of affirmations, think of recitations, those types of things, meditations that they could do that would focus them and center them.

Because we saw a rise in these young people of stress, of anxiety, of isolation and loneliness, sleep issues. We know that if you want to be a full and whole-centered person, you have to have a relationship with divinity. The goal was step one. It was not to convert them to a religion or make them say, You’ve got to start going back to church or temple. The goal was to say, You’ve got to have a relationship, and this can bring you peace. This can help you overcome some of these things. If you can center yourself, slow down your thoughts a little bit, and focus on some of these things that will help you overcome anxiety, depression, et cetera, or at least be a step in that direction.

Do you find that this age group, was there a belief in God, or they still have a belief in God? Or was it, when you say, spiritually, belief in something?

Yes, there was a belief in something, a higher power, or they were willing to concede or consent to the fact that there was something out there. They weren’t atheists, right? They were believers in something. The question was, how can we channel that and help them know you can have a relationship with that higher power? Again, we believe that that’s the first step. You’ve got to have that to be able to say, Okay, if I want to turn to religion in the future, you can’t do that absent a belief in a higher power and a relationship with that higher power.

How did you find the best way to connect with that age group? Obviously, social media is huge. Was there particular ways that work better than others?

Yeah. One thing we found right away is personalities, the persona that you utilize. We tested out multiple people talking about multiple different things. We did this through spiritual movement, spiritual music, in addition to some prayers, meditations, affirmations, things like that. The personality was key in helping that younger individual really connect with, for example, a person my age, no. We We’ve got to find peers, and we’ve got to find peers with personalities that are inviting and open enough that they connect with and they’re willing to listen to.

How do you find those people?

It’s a lot of searching. We used a lot of talent. We would just bring people in, test them. Obviously, the numbers on the back-end based on time watched and number of times they’re clicked on, et cetera, some of those basic things we would turn to as well. But you just have to test talent out up front and see what works.

It was primarily video. Is that the best one? Did it get a connection?

Yeah. Video by far, was the best way to connect with people. Again, 3-5 minutes seemed to be the sweet spot. If they wanted to do multiple, they could. But if they just needed one in the morning or before bed, as they were winding down to relax and get ready to sleep, that worked well, too.

I know you moved on to the Faith & Media Project. But as you’re working through this one, gratifying, frustrating, would progress be made? All of the above.

But no, very gratifying, for sure. It’s not unlike life. You start one thing, you have successes. But as we talked about before we started filming, a lot of our money was going toward technology. We had an iOS app, an Android app, and other things. To create the content and really to churn this out in a way that is going to be meaningful to this younger group, we just didn’t have the budget, I don’t think, to really have the impact that we wanted to have. You can’t boil the ocean, so figure out the best way, the best thing to do, and then focus on that. That’s why I ended up at Faith & Media. But it was very gratifying, very, very gratifying. Skylight. Org still exists. We welcome people to go out there. Just recently, I’m talking to some companies about utilizing the the sets that we’ve created. There’s still good being done, right? Still good being done.

Let’s talk about the faith in media. How did that come about?

Well, we noticed that faith in media, there is that, I guess you could say loggerheads sometime. We know if you want to change culture, eventually, that’s what we want to do. Our goal is to change culture and to have it be more faith friendly. To really make that pivot to where we are now, to where we want to be, you’ve got to be involved and you’ve got to have a voice and influence in those rooms where decisions are being made, specifically entertainment, social media, journalism, those types of things, things that are culture tastemakers or culture creators. We know with what we are trying to do, both from a church perspective and just from a rising tide lifts all boats. We’re saying any belief needs to be elevated in media. You need to make sure you’re accurate. We need more accuracy when they report on things and when they’re represented in entertainment. To do that, we thought, Gosh, if we want to change the culture and what that looks like for future generations so that faith is more open and represented more accurately, those are the places we need to go to. The Brewer and care about this.

This is something that is very important because we are all influenced by those three verticals I just we talked about journalism, social media, and entertainment. If we can have a place at the table, a seat at the table, if we can get into the room to start with, and then eventually get to the table, get a seat at the table to speak about what that should look like as they talk about faith and belief and represent faith and belief, that’s huge and important.

What’s your take on… Church has been using media for a long time. We did a tour today and talk about Man’s Search for Happiness, right? Back ’50s and that thing. What’s your take on the feel for the importance of media reaching out and using that to influence others?

Yeah, it’s still an important… I think the church has been one of the pioneers in that way as well via media usage. We know President Hinkley was so good getting on 60 Minutes and working with those individuals. It’s still prominent. We need more of that. We cover ourselves quite well But sometimes when you look at media, you talk about the Roman bishop who did something wrong or the Catholic priest who did something wrong. That will get A1 coverage over all of the great service that is being done all across the world. That’s a frustrating thing. That’s really frustrating because so much good is being done. Again, if you write 100 mathematical problems on the board and one is wrong, people will immediately find that and not acknowledge the 99 that are going right. I feel that’s the way it is with the church at times. They focus in on those things that are unfortunate. With that, though, our goal is really to I say, from a church perspective, Yeah, let’s get more and better out there. But what I love about the time in which we live, we deputize our members now to say, You are representing your faith as well.

Not only your personal faith, but our collective faith. Let’s go out there and represent in a way that is meaningful in a normal and natural way. That’s the way that elder Uchtdorff put it. But I use the analogy of raising Rays versus Pillars. Many of us have not had a Joseph Smith experience where a pillar of light comes down for our testimony. But we have multiple rays of light. Elder Dushku talked about this recently in general conference. We can be the rays of light in culture and with our friends in real life, but also virtually. Let’s talk about the beautiful things about our faith, how it gives us the hope, how it brings together these great families and these great feelings, all the things we love about our faith. Let’s share that online, because if we’re relying on just the organized collective church to do that, I think we’re doing it wrong. We absolutely need every member of the church to be out there in real life of also virtually talking about the benefits of their faith.

When we talk about media, oftentimes we think about movies and the big commerce, but you’re talking about individuals. What’s your take on influencers, both in and outside the church, but Christian-based, that thing, have Do we reach out to them? What’s your take on that?

Yeah, my feelings about influencers are great. We should definitely deputize them as well and utilize them as best we can. Now, I’ve worked alongside the church in the past, doing influencer activations, and I realize there are good things about that and there are bad things about that. And even right now, trending is the Mormon church is spending money to activate influencers, to tout the benefits of their religion. I will tell you this, when I worked with influencers, the likes of Lindsay Sterling, the Piano Guys, et cetera, et cetera, they did it because they loved it, and they didn’t receive any compensation for this. Not only did they not receive it, they were willing to utilize their properties to tout the benefits of their personal faith and what the church did for them. I think we need to figure out collectively how to best utilize people with influence and power to, when I say power, the power to influence others, to talk about the benefits of faith because they are there. I think at the end of the day, and I’ve mentioned this many times before, I think I even said it 10 years ago when we spoke, but the church is never going to be able to get, I don’t believe, to everyone in real life this way.

We just can’t do it face to If we took all 70,000 missionaries and put them in one part of the world, they wouldn’t even cover China at the moment. We can do it virtually. If people are willing to speak up, talk about their faith in a way that is meaningful, in a that’s authentic, and share all the good things that their faith and their religion does for them.

Yeah, let’s talk about the authenticity, because I think sometimes with influencers, there’s that, maybe the underbelly in that way. You’re doing it because you’re getting paid. It’s authentic. I think that’s a big deal. You can’t fake authenticity, right? Right.

You can’t do it. There’s also something to be said because these people have built… Their occupation is influence, right? They’ve built up a large enough audience, just like we pay newspapers back in the day, or we pay television stations now because they garner a large audience. These people have larger audience than sometimes CNN or others. There is something to be said about, okay, you have brand deals, and sometimes those are for profit, and you have things you do with the church. Now, I personally believe a lot of people are willing to do this for their beliefs for free. And a lot of people, in my personal experience, have done it for no compensation. And they’ve given up their time and talent freely because they believe in it. I can’t speak to it now because I’m not involved directly with it. But I do believe we have a lot of people who believe what they are saying, and they are doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

You know, that’s part of this faith in media is not religion specific. This is to any religion, whether it’s Christian or anyone. Muslim, whatever it is. What do you see as the importance and what’s going on in the media today? Because we all complain, Oh, I can’t believe they do that. They out there is always doing stuff. So what do you see and what can we do that can actually maybe change the tide of things?

Yeah, and that’s a good question. I’ve heard that from a lot of students here today at BYU, Idaho, and I love that because we’re talking about this collective effort to change what this looks like. I’ll go back to my Pillar and Ray That analogy, maybe. When we’re talking to a Disney or a Paramount, those are the pillars in the industry, a New York Times, a New York Post, that can really influence Forbes. We think of these big names, these conglomerate CNNs, et cetera. But the rays, to me, are each of us individually, being able to be collective nodes and being able to share things that are important to us. I think that’s number one. Are we sharing in real our life and virtually what really matters to us. Number two is we vote with our feet where we spend our attention and our eyeballs, but also our wallets. So by far and large, the numbers from the research perspective show that a lot of people, 84% in the world, if you were to transport magically 10 people here today, eight and a half of those individuals would be people of faith or religion. They would a faith or a religion.

But we don’t see that reflected in a lot of our media. The question comes up often, why the disparity? If we have so many people that say they want more, they do believe, because by far, the large super ponderant, says they want more representation of faith in media, why doesn’t the media respond and react to that? Well, there’s a few things to think about. One of those is if I were to bring in donuts and salad, probably Probably the majority of the people in this room would take a donut, but not salad. We have to be introspective. Are we supporting the things that we say we support? There’s place for everything. Sometimes you just want a mindless episode of something or to go to the movies and watch something that is just fun to watch, and you can just sit back and relax. But what we’re saying is there is space in that film, whatever you’re watching, for a nuanced character of faith. It’s not a faith genre film, and it doesn’t need to be, and it doesn’t have to be. If they don’t want to create that, that’s okay. Angel Studios and others are doing those types of things.

But in an episode of Star Wars or F1, or pick whatever film you want to talk about, is there space to have a nuanced character of faith that if you see a cross on that individual, he’s not going to be a hypocrite, he’s not going to be the victim, and he’s not going to be this stereotypical flat character that you see sometimes when you see a cross on somebody, you can almost expect that. So what we’re saying is there is space and we need to see more of that accurately reflected in this media.

I’m thinking not necessarily that overtly, like there are, like the chosen very much. We’re talking about Jesus Christ, which is wonderful. But in an episode of You Name Whatever, that it’s not weird or consider weird that someone says a prayer or that they wear a cross. And I think sometimes that’s the underlying text is that you can use those stereotypes to paint an individual. They got the cross on. Oh, that guy’s going to be maybe a zealot or something like that. And how do you get rid of that? Because it’s a pretty easy thing to do. It’s a trope, isn’t it? People don’t push It’s back against it very much, I don’t think.

Yeah. I think the only way to get over it is to actually have some nuanced and deep characters of faith represented in the media that actually don’t follow that trope Because it’s so easy to do that. I think at the beginning, it was really interesting because, yeah, you didn’t expect so and so to be the villain or maybe the victim, but not the villain. But to be able to say, wow, that person does have depth and nuance. It doesn’t mean they need to always be the hero either. But just let’s represent this in a way that is real life. It’s what happens.

How do you handle something like, or how should we, secret Lives of Norman Wives, for example? Okay, very small percentage, probably not active member of the church, but people see it. Is it like the Book of Norman musical? Is it going to be helpful that way, or is it we got to straighten out these misperceptions? What’s your take on how we handle Yeah, there’s a few things there, I would personally say.

Whenever you have the name of the church in the title of a series like that, I think that’s a little problematic because that is click baity. We’ve been known recently over the years to there are things that are told, stories that are told, some true, some false, and some with varying levels of veracity about historical incidents that have happened et cetera, et cetera. I think it’s always curious when they use the name of the church because I think they’re trying to draw people in because it is somewhat salacious, right? They’re trying to get clicks for that controversy that often companies, our faith. Number two, though, I think an interesting thing is whenever a certain population, whatever that population is, represents the whole of the group, when you see that title, Roman Wives, you think, I think very broadly, and I think a lot of people do, Okay, these are representative people. Okay, and I don’t want to discount their experience. I haven’t watched it, and so I can’t speak specifically about it. But I can tell you this, even if they had the most devout, let’s say they chose the 5-10 most devout wives, that doesn’t represent the whole population either.

These people experience. It’s their experience, and I want to give them their experience. I also want to say, Reality Reality TV, I think we all know, is scripted. We’ve been around long enough through the MTV and the other things that have happened over the years with Reality TV to know that they need to keep people coming back week after week or episode after episode. There’s a lot of things, I think, that are manufactured, probably within that series, to make it more salacious and more interesting, quote-unquote interesting, to people to keep coming back. But I think it does a disservice to us because I saw a reel by a black comedian who said, They don’t even step inside a church, and they’re calling it, Norman Wives. If you’re going to talk about that now, whether they do or not, I don’t know. But anyway, it’s interesting. Yeah.

Just got a couple of minutes left. You were an early adopter in the social media scene. You’ve seen it change dramatically. You knew things come and go, TikTok and whatnot. Any take on putting on your prognosticator hat? What can we expect What do you expect coming down the line? What do you see?

I think you asked me the same question 10 years ago, and I think we mentioned augmented reality and virtual reality at the time. That’s had its little moment and step back and not as much happening. But I do think wearables are an interesting thing, especially with AI. You see a lot of the meta glasses. Back in the day, it was Google Glass, which was way ahead of its time. But now you see Alexa built into frames and meta built into frames, Ray-Ban frames and other things. I think we’re going to be living in this semi-virtual state where AI just helps. You know, literally, you read a sign and you say, Okay, that’s in Japanese. I You can put that in English. Or you’re looking at a menu and you don’t know what a certain word is in Italian, and you can ask and figure out what that is. I think that’s interesting. I think there will always be… That is the way that we are socializing virtually. I don’t think that’s ever going to go away. Now, like you said, TikTok has come since we last spoke. I think Instagram, that may have been in its impetus.

It’s in its infancy, yeah.

Yeah, infancy back then. But I think the social being is always going to be there. We’ve opened, I’m going to use the word Pandora’s box. That doesn’t always have the best connotations, but I think the cat is out of the bag from a social media perspective. I think there There will always be some of those platforms, whether it’s Twitter, X, whatever it is that will always be around. I think there will be interesting ways that AI will augment the way that we interact with others that way. Yeah.

Obligation to figure it out, how to use it for the best.

Yeah, exactly.

John Dye, it’s been a pleasure talking with you. All the best on the project, Faith & Media. I hope all goes well. It’s so nice to have you here. Yeah.

Thanks, Brian.

Thanks, John.

Elder Clark G. Gilbert was called as the newest member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Feb. 11. Elder Gilbert’s service and expertise in academia, business and media — as well as his roles as commissioner of the Church Educational System and president of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Pathway — have prepared him for his new calling.

On this episode of “Deseret Voices,” host Jane Clayson Johnson asks Elder Gilbert about his apostolic call, polarization in the world, the recent criticism he has received from some corners of the media and what his message is to those who don’t feel like they belong in the faith.