In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Tom Szaky and I discuss how he grew TerraCycle from a college dorm room idea into a global company with nearly 500 employees and just under $100 million in annual revenue. We explore creating businesses around overlooked problems and finding opportunity where few others are looking.

Tom also shares how TerraCycle has earned roughly 250,000 media mentions worldwide over the years, why earned media became a major growth driver, and what led to launching Loop as an adjacent business. His story offers fresh ideas for entrepreneurs looking to build, market, and expand businesses with long-term potential.

Watch the Full Episode

See Opportunity Where Other People See Problems

TerraCycle began nearly 25 years ago while Tom was a freshman at Princeton University. Before that, he had already started a website business at age 14, complete with an employee and five-figure revenue. Once he arrived at college, he became interested in building companies that could produce profits while solving larger problems. That idea eventually led him toward waste.

A simple observation changed everything. Garbage is one of the only materials people are willing to pay someone else to take away. That raised a simple question. If waste has value to the company collecting it, could someone build a profitable business around materials everyone else ignored?

A conversation with friends experimenting with worm composting sparked the original TerraCycle idea. Tom began collecting organic waste, feeding it to worms, and selling worm castings as fertilizer in reused soda bottles.

It was a small beginning that introduced a much larger opportunity. Some early takeaways from Tom's story include:

• Previous business experience gave him confidence long before TerraCycle existed.
• The first version of the company looked very different from today's business.
• Curiosity about overlooked industries created an opening with little direct competition.
• A simple observation about waste became the foundation for an entirely new company.

Build a Business Around an Economic Problem

Many entrepreneurs assume that difficult industries simply need better technology. Tom learned something different. As TerraCycle expanded beyond fertilizer, the company studied why certain products could be recycled while most others could not. The answer was surprisingly simple. It wasn't a technical problem. It was an economic one.

Traditional recycling companies recycle only materials that generate more revenue than they cost to collect and process. That explains why aluminum cans, cardboard, and certain plastics are commonly recycled while products such as coffee capsules, cigarette butts, toothbrushes, and cosmetic packaging usually are not.

According to Tom, roughly 95% of consumer products aren't economically viable to recycle through traditional systems. That insight became the foundation for TerraCycle's business model. Rather than asking how to recycle difficult materials, TerraCycle asked who would benefit enough to pay for the recycling process. Potential funding partners included:

• Product manufacturers
• Retailers
• Consumers
• Businesses generating the waste

Instead of depending on the recycled material itself to create profit, TerraCycle charges stakeholders for the collection and processing required to solve a waste problem. That simple shift allowed the company to create entirely new recycling categories. Today, TerraCycle has become the global leader in recycling products including:

• Coffee capsules
• Cigarette butts
• Cosmetic packaging
• Laboratory waste

Create Demand Instead of Waiting for It

One of the most valuable parts of the conversation centered on creating markets that don't yet exist. Many entrepreneurs search for products customers already want. Tom approached the problem differently. He looked for needs that lacked a workable business model.

That required more than identifying a problem. It required giving companies a compelling business reason to participate. For example, telling a manufacturer that its packaging ends up in landfills may get someone's attention. Showing that a recycling initiative can increase customer acquisition, improve retention, strengthen brand reputation, or increase store traffic creates a much more persuasive conversation.

Tom explained that companies are motivated by business outcomes. The environmental impact opens the conversation. The commercial value closes the deal. That distinction became one of TerraCycle's biggest competitive advantages. When thinking about opportunities like this, consider questions such as:

• Who benefits financially if this problem gets solved?
• Which stakeholder has the greatest incentive to pay?
• How can solving the problem improve revenue, customer loyalty, or risk reduction?
• Can one solution create value for multiple parties at the same time?

This way of thinking applies to far more than recycling. Many successful businesses exist because they found the economic incentive hidden behind an unmet need.

Build Marketing Around Stories People Want to Share

Marketing is another area where TerraCycle stands apart. Most companies spend heavily on advertising. Tom focused on making the business itself interesting enough that other people would tell its story. The results have been remarkable.

TerraCycle gets roughly 50 stories every day. The company has appeared in approximately 250,000 media articles globally, including around 150,000 in the United States alone. Instead of relying only on paid advertising, the company built what Tom calls “negative cost marketing.”

The idea is simple. Rather than paying to become the advertisement, create stories valuable enough that publishers, television networks, event organizers, and business partners want to feature them. TerraCycle's marketing strategy includes:

• Partner promotions through global brands like Procter & Gamble, Nestlé, Walmart, and Target.
• Product packaging featuring the TerraCycle brand.
• Television appearances and documentary programming.
• Books authored by Tom that also expand company awareness.
• Speaking engagements that both generate revenue and introduce new audiences to the business.

One lesson stood out during this discussion. Journalists are under pressure to publish more content with fewer resources. Companies that make reporting easier often receive far more coverage. Tom recommends helping journalists by:

• Providing photos.
• Offering interviews quickly.
• Supplying background information.
• Giving them a complete story instead of expecting them to build one from scratch.

That philosophy has helped TerraCycle create one of the most successful earned media programs in its industry.

Expand Your Business Without Losing Focus

TerraCycle spent years building relationships with many of the world's largest brands and retailers. Those partnerships eventually created another opportunity. Instead of asking how to recycle more products, Tom and his team asked a bigger question.

Was recycling solving the problem at its source? That led to the creation of Loop. Launched after years of planning, Loop focuses on reuse instead of recycling. Rather than creating another standalone company, Tom built it as an extension of TerraCycle's existing strengths and relationships.

The concept is straightforward. Consumers purchase products in durable, reusable packaging and pay a small deposit. Once the product is empty, they return the packaging, receive their deposit back, and TerraCycle handles cleaning and returning the container to manufacturers for another use.

Today, more than 200 global consumer brands participate in Loop, and shoppers in France can purchase more than 400 reusable products through the platform. Examples include products from companies such as:

• Kraft Heinz
• Pantene
• Nutella
• Coca-Cola

Tom explained that this expansion succeeded because it built on assets TerraCycle had already spent years developing. Instead of convincing hundreds of new companies from scratch, the relationships already existed. That dramatically shortened the path from idea to execution.

Expand Into Adjacent Markets at the Right Time

Many entrepreneurs eventually discover opportunities outside their original business. The challenge is deciding whether to pursue them. Tom believes timing matters just as much as the idea itself.

By the time Loop launched, TerraCycle had already worked with major manufacturers and retailers for well over a decade. Those relationships became one of the company's greatest competitive advantages because partners already trusted the business.

He also pointed out another reason the expansion made sense. Loop didn't replace TerraCycle. It expanded the company's role within the same supply chain.

Tom compared the strategy to Netflix moving from DVD rentals to streaming. The company disrupted its own business before someone else had the chance. For business owners thinking about expansion, his approach offers several useful questions:

• Can your current customer relationships support the new idea?
• Does the expansion increase your role within your industry?
• Will the new business strengthen your existing business instead of distracting from it?
• Are you building on an existing advantage rather than creating one from scratch?

Those questions helped TerraCycle move into reuse while continuing to grow its recycling business.

Measure Marketing Beyond Traffic

Earned media has a reputation for being difficult to measure. Tom acknowledged that challenge.

He also shared several ways TerraCycle evaluates whether its marketing efforts produce business results.

The company looks at more than article counts. Instead, it examines whether media coverage contributes to measurable business outcomes. Some of the metrics TerraCycle tracks include:

• Advertising value equivalents for partner campaigns.
• Increases in direct sales following major media coverage.
• Performance after reducing paid advertising.
• Search visibility across traditional Google results.
• Visibility within AI-generated search summaries.

One example stood out. When TerraCycle searches for terms like “cigarette recycling,” the company dominates both traditional search results and AI summaries without paying for those placements. That visibility comes from years of earned media rather than advertising spend.

For content creators and website owners, the lesson extends far beyond recycling. Building authority often produces results that paid campaigns cannot easily replicate.

Raise Capital Only When It Creates Opportunity

Tom didn't build TerraCycle as a bootstrapped company. He openly discussed both the benefits and tradeoffs of outside investment. Looking back, one lesson stands above the rest. He wishes he had raised less money during the earliest years.

Early funding typically requires giving up a much larger ownership stake because the company's valuation remains relatively small. As businesses mature, raising larger amounts of capital often requires less dilution.

TerraCycle followed a traditional venture funding path during its first decade before becoming profitable. According to Tom, the company has remained profitable for more than ten years and now raises capital primarily to fund growth rather than cover operating losses.

That distinction shapes every investment decision. Instead of filling financial gaps, new capital supports acquisitions, expansion, and product development. Current priorities include:

• Acquiring complementary recycling businesses.
• Expanding sales into additional industries.
• Developing new recycling programs.
• Investing in adjacent opportunities.

One recent acquisition involved a Connecticut-based light bulb recycling company. Rather than operating independently, that business immediately gained access to TerraCycle's broader portfolio of recycling services, allowing it to offer much more to existing customers.

Focus on Incentives Instead of Intentions

Tom encourages entrepreneurs to focus less on what organizations say they care about and more on what motivates their decisions. His analogy involved chess pieces. Every business has predictable ways it moves. Consumer brands want more customers, stronger retention, lower costs, and larger market share.

When TerraCycle presents new recycling programs, the conversation centers on helping companies achieve those business goals. Environmental impact remains an important benefit. It simply isn't the first language many companies use when making investment decisions. 

That shift in perspective helped TerraCycle build partnerships with many of the world's largest brands. When presenting your own products or services, ask yourself:

• What motivates your customer every day?
• Which business problem creates the greatest urgency?
• How does your solution contribute to measurable business growth?
• Can your pitch connect with those priorities first?

Small changes in positioning often make a much bigger difference than changes to the product itself.

Learn From Failure Instead of Avoiding It

Tom closed the conversation with another lesson that applies to every entrepreneur. Failure is expensive. It's also one of the best teachers available. Instead of becoming frustrated after setbacks, he recommends treating each failed project as tuition.

If a company spends thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours pursuing an idea that doesn't work, the investment still has value if the lessons prevent bigger mistakes later. That mindset creates continuous improvement instead of repeated mistakes.

Final Thoughts

Tom Szaky's story is far more than the story of a recycling company. It's the story of finding opportunity where few people are paying attention, creating demand instead of waiting for it, and building systems that continue growing long after the original idea has evolved.

From launching TerraCycle in a college dorm room to leading a global company with nearly 500 employees and close to $100 million in annual revenue, Tom has consistently looked for overlooked problems that carry meaningful business potential.

His experience also reinforces a lesson that applies across every industry. Great businesses aren't always built by entering crowded markets. Sometimes the biggest opportunities come from solving problems that everyone else has accepted as unsolvable.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about TerraCycle.
• Invest in TerraCycle.

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The post How Tom Szaky Turned a College Dorm Idea Into a Nearly $100 Million Company appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Bernard Huang and I discuss how poker, failed ventures, Silicon Valley startups, SEO consulting, and software development shaped his approach to entrepreneurship. He made six figures playing poker in college, ran a restaurant franchise, and spent seven years in Silicon Valley.

Our conversation also covers how he grew Clearscope to mid-seven figures, why customer success became its main marketing channel, and how entity optimization produced traffic gains between 50% and 150%. Bernard also shares concerns about AI, lower production costs, and changing online publishing economics.

Watch the Full Episode

What Poker Taught Bernard About Business Decisions

Bernard's entrepreneurial story began when he watched a high school classmate make more than $100,000 playing online poker. That experience inspired him to study the game, and Bernard went on to make six figures himself while attending college.

Poker taught him to separate the quality of a decision from the outcome of a single hand. A player can make the statistically correct move and still lose, since even a favorable probability leaves room for an unfavorable result.

The same principle applies to business decisions. A marketing campaign may have a reasonable chance of succeeding, yet external factors, timing, or execution can still produce disappointing results. Poker shaped several parts of Bernard's decision-making process:

• Treat uncertainty as a normal condition rather than a reason to freeze.
• Evaluate decisions through probabilities instead of binary judgments.
• Separate personal identity from the performance of a system.
• Improve the process after a loss instead of reacting only to the outcome.
• Make enough disciplined decisions for favorable odds to matter over time.

Bernard explained that struggling players often assume they lack talent. A more useful interpretation is that they may be using a losing system, which can be studied, adjusted, and replaced.

Entrepreneurs can make the same mistake when sales, hiring, or customer acquisition falls short. Viewing the issue as a systems problem creates room for improvement without turning every setback into a judgment of personal ability.

Why the Restaurant Experiment Ended After 13 Months

After college, Bernard invested some of his poker earnings into a Dickey's Barbecue Pit franchise with friends. They sold the restaurant after only 13 months when the economics failed to support the operation.

The experience showed Bernard how difficult physical businesses can be when labor, inventory, preparation, and customer demand must align each day. It also revealed how much management experience he still needed in his early twenties. The restaurant business created several operational challenges:

• Brisket could require around 12 hours of cooking time.
• Preparing too little food meant running out before closing.
• Preparing too much created waste and reduced margins.
• Chicken and other products could lose quality through small preparation errors.
• Employee and manager turnover repeatedly restarted the training process.

Bernard said labor was the largest problem. The restaurant hired young employees, experienced frequent turnover, and struggled to keep general managers from burning out. Age also affected his ability to lead. As a 20- or 21-year-old owner, Bernard found it difficult to recruit and manage experienced professionals who were significantly older than him.

He no longer sees every brick-and-mortar business as a poor opportunity. His conclusion is more specific: owners need enough self-awareness to identify their own weaknesses, define each role clearly, and hire people whose abilities match the operation.

How Seven Years in Silicon Valley Changed His Career

After selling the restaurant, Bernard decided he wanted to work online. He taught himself to code, tried several startup ideas, and eventually moved to Silicon Valley to join 42Floors, a Y Combinator-backed commercial property marketplace.

Bernard spent about seven years in Silicon Valley, from roughly 2013 through 2020. That period exposed him to highly ambitious founders, engineers, investors, and operators working on difficult technical problems.

The location gave him more than startup experience. It placed him within one or two introductions of influential investors, founders, and specialists who could offer advice or open doors. Several features made the environment valuable:

• High expectations felt normal because nearly everyone worked intensely.
• Technical conversations moved quickly due to shared knowledge.
• Capability often mattered more than academic credentials.
• Coffee meetings provided access to experienced operators.
• Professional relationships frequently led to future opportunities.

Bernard described proximity as a powerful force. Spending time around skilled and ambitious people changed his own pace, improved the quality of his conversations, and expanded what he believed he could build.

His Silicon Valley network later helped him transition into SEO consulting. Former colleagues and founders recommended him when other startups needed help, creating an early source of qualified leads.

How SEO Consulting Created the Foundation for Clearscope

At 42Floors, Bernard worked on growth and became deeply involved in SEO. The company ranked for competitive terms related to office space in cities such as San Francisco and New York.

After leaving, Bernard and a business partner initially built an esports coaching marketplace. The platform connected skilled League of Legends players with younger players who wanted lessons, though transaction values were too low to support a large business.

SEO consulting became the more promising opportunity. Referrals through the Y Combinator network brought Bernard and his partner projects from companies with large websites and significant organic search potential. Their client list included:

• DoorDash
• Strava
• AllTrails
• Compass

These companies operated sites with large numbers of landing pages. For businesses of that type, search traffic could account for 50%, 60%, or even 70% of total site traffic during that period.

The agency began winning six-figure consulting contracts. Each project gave Bernard's team access to more data, experiments, and patterns across large websites.

They discovered that SEO performance wasn't driven only by technical checklists, links, and keyword placement. Page quality, user engagement, and topic coverage could also influence how a large set of pages performed.

The Entity Optimization Tests That Increased Traffic

Bernard's agency tested ways to improve directory and landing pages for specific topics. One experiment used natural language processing to identify related entities that appeared across high-ranking search results.

When clients added relevant entities and improved topic coverage, some sites experienced long-tail traffic increases ranging from 50% to 150% within roughly 30 days. The repeated results suggested the process could become a software product rather than remain a consulting method.

Clearscope was created to make that process easier. A user entered a keyword, the software analyzed high-ranking pages, and the editor graded content according to its coverage of relevant terms and entities.

The product stood apart from many SEO tools available at the time because it focused closely on the written page. Much of the industry was still centered on technical optimization, backlinks, keyword use, and publishing at scale. Clearscope helped teams address questions such as:

• Does the article cover the concepts searchers expect?
• Are important entities missing from the draft?
• How does the page compare with current top-ranking results?
• Is the writer addressing the topic comprehensively?
• Could the content provide more useful context?

The product came directly from work Bernard and his partner had already completed for clients. They weren't guessing about a hypothetical need, since they had seen the process produce measurable traffic gains.

Why Customer Success Became Clearscope's Main Growth Channel

Clearscope introduced a category that many SEO professionals hadn't seen before. Bernard often needed to prove that content optimization worked before customers would use the software consistently.

One early customer at Optimizely signed up and then barely used the product. Bernard offered to optimize content for the company himself in exchange for permission to create a case study if the work succeeded.

After the rewritten content was published, the page's traffic increased by more than 100%. Results like that helped establish trust in a product that still required education. Clearscope's growth strategy included:

• Proactive onboarding calls for new customers.
• Webinars explaining how to use the software correctly.
• Direct help with implementation.
• Case studies supported by measurable results.
• Close attention to whether customers succeeded after purchasing.

Bernard viewed customer success as a marketing channel. If clients saw meaningful gains, they often mentioned the tool privately to colleagues and trusted contacts.

That mattered in SEO because many professionals were reluctant to share tactics publicly. A method that produced strong results could become a competitive advantage, so recommendations often moved through private conversations.

Traditional outbound campaigns were less successful. SEO professionals already received frequent messages claiming their sites had technical errors, which made cold outreach difficult to distinguish from spam.

Why Bernard Bootstrapped Clearscope for Nearly 10 Years

Bernard and his partner launched Clearscope around 2016 and bootstrapped the company for nearly 10 years. They chose not to pursue a traditional venture capital path, even though Bernard had relationships inside the startup funding community.

Their goal was to build a profitable software company that generated dependable cash flow. They weren't trying to create a billion-dollar company at any cost. The decision gave the founders more control over:

• Hiring pace
• Product direction
• Pricing
• Spending
• Profit distribution
• Long-term company goals

Bernard had seen venture-backed businesses that raised large sums and then became trapped by growth expectations. Some generated cash, yet couldn't grow quickly enough to reach the next funding milestone or create the return investors expected.

Clearscope eventually grew to mid-seven figures in revenue at its peak. That result supported Bernard's view that a software company could become highly profitable without following a unicorn-or-failure model.

He also acknowledged what the company may have missed. The right investors could have provided mentorship, hiring guidance, portfolio introductions, and assistance during periods of slower growth.

The tradeoff wasn't simply money versus no money. It involved deciding what kind of company the founders wanted to operate and which obligations they were willing to accept.

How AI Is Changing the Economics of Online Publishing

Bernard believes the economics that supported online publishing are breaking down. For years, creators invested time and money into useful content, then received search traffic, subscribers, advertising revenue, or customers in return.

AI-generated answers can now give users information without sending them to the original publisher. This reduces the incentive for small websites to invest in detailed articles when fewer people reach the source.

The same pressure is appearing across social platforms. AI tools can create images and videos at a fraction of the cost of traditional production, allowing automated accounts to publish content at enormous scale.

Bernard has tested these systems himself. Social AI projects he built generated about 20 million views through automated workflows involving video models and scheduled publishing. The cost difference is significant:

• An AI-generated video may cost roughly $0.30 to $2.
• Traditional video production may require hundreds or thousands of dollars.
• Automated systems can publish repeatedly without a full production team.
• AI models can study patterns from previously successful social content.
• Low costs allow creators to test far more concepts.

This creates a difficult competitive environment for human-led productions. A podcast, interview, or professionally filmed video requires planning, equipment, editing, and time, while an automated clip may be created for less than the price of a cup of coffee.

Bernard also noted that social networks have incentives to keep showing AI-generated media when it attracts engagement. The platforms developing or supporting these models may benefit from the added watch time, even as human creators face heavier competition.

Why $200 Per Month Is Becoming a New Software Pricing Anchor

Bernard doesn't claim to have a precise prediction for where AI will lead. He sees the present period as one filled with experimentation, lower creation costs, and weakened barriers between an idea and a finished product.

At the same time, lower barriers mean more competition. Producing a website, game, application, article, or video is easier, so production alone carries less value than it once did. Bernard sees consistency as one remaining advantage. Many people can create something once, while far fewer will continue for three, six, or 12 months.

He also believes entrepreneurs should pay attention to a new pricing anchor. Claude Max and ChatGPT Pro cost roughly $200 per month, and Bernard argues that customers may increasingly compare other software subscriptions with the broad capabilities included at that price.

The value chain may therefore shift from product creation alone toward product creation plus influence. An entrepreneur may release a game, tool, or application for free, use it to attract attention, and monetize a later product once an audience has formed.

Bernard recommends building direct relationships with an audience whenever possible. Newsletters, owned communities, and direct customer connections reduce dependence on search engines or social platforms that can change distribution without warning.

Final Thoughts

Bernard Huang's journey shows how one career can connect poker, restaurant ownership, Silicon Valley startups, SEO consulting, software, and artificial intelligence. Each stage gave him a different way to think about probabilities, people, operations, and market timing.

His story also shows why entrepreneurs should judge systems over isolated outcomes. A failed restaurant, an unprofitable esports marketplace, or an unsuccessful marketing channel can still provide information that leads to a better opportunity.

AI has made the next stage less predictable. Bernard's response is to keep experimenting, build direct audience relationships, and explore products that would have been too expensive or complicated to create only a few years ago.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Bernard's work
• Check out Clearscope

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The post How Bernard Huang Went From College Poker Winnings to a Mid-Seven-Figure SEO Company appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's Niche Pursuits podcast, Chocolate Alchemy founder John Nanci explains how analytical chemistry fueled his bean-to-bar success. Rejecting standard startup formulas, John built an influential business through scientific thinking, patient growth, and freely sharing his expertise before ever asking customers to buy. 

His story is also deeply personal. A heartbreaking family tragedy forced him to decide whether Chocolate Alchemy could support his family full time, leading to one of the biggest turning points in both his life and business. Along the way, he shared lessons about choosing the right niche, watching the numbers, simplifying product offerings, and earning trust through education.

Watch the Full Episode

Building a Business Around Scientific Expertise

Before launching Chocolate Alchemy, John spent more than 20 years working as an analytical chemist. His career involved sophisticated laboratory equipment used to analyze herbicides and pesticides, giving him a scientific mindset that later became one of his biggest business advantages.

Instead of treating chocolate as a hobby, he approached it as a series of scientific problems waiting to be solved. Some of the principles that shaped his business include:

• Applying the scientific method to chocolate making
• Breaking large problems into smaller experiments
• Documenting every discovery along the way
• Teaching others how each process worked

John's background gave him something few competitors had at the time. Rather than trying to imitate existing businesses, he approached chocolate from the perspective of a scientist looking for repeatable processes. That combination helped him identify an opportunity long before the craft chocolate movement became popular.

Discovering an Untapped Niche

Ironically, coffee led John into the chocolate business. While attending a gathering of coffee enthusiasts, he tasted traditional Mexican drinking chocolate that completely changed how he viewed chocolate. Fascinated by the flavor, he decided he wanted to make it himself. The challenge was that almost nobody sold cocoa beans to home users in the early 2000s.

His first purchase required buying a full 138-pound sack from a broker who repeatedly warned him that the process would be expensive and difficult. John accepted the challenge and began teaching himself every step of chocolate production because almost no educational resources existed. Several factors convinced him this could become a business:

• Almost no competition existed.
• Home chocolate makers had few resources.
• Educational content was nearly nonexistent.
• Small-scale equipment was unavailable.

Instead of seeing obstacles, he saw unmet demand.

Growing Slowly Without Going Into Debt

Many founders chase rapid growth through outside funding or large financial risks. John chose the opposite approach. 

After purchasing his first bag of cocoa beans, he focused on organic growth. The beans he didn't use were sold to customers, creating enough revenue to purchase more inventory. His progression looked remarkably simple:

• One bag became two.
• Two bags became three.
• Three bags became pallets.
• Additional origins expanded the catalog over time.

Throughout those years, John balanced several major responsibilities at once. He was simultaneously:

• Working full time as a chemist
• Commuting roughly an hour each way
• Helping operate a 30-acre farm
• Raising a young daughter
• Building Chocolate Alchemy during mornings and evenings

Persistence, rather than shortcuts, fuels his typical workday. One principle guided nearly every financial decision. He refused to expand until the business had already paid for the next step.

Turning Personal Tragedy Into a Life-Changing Decision

The most emotional part of John's story came when he discussed losing his wife to melanoma in 2009. Her illness forced difficult conversations about whether Chocolate Alchemy should continue. According to John, she strongly encouraged him not to shut the business down after years of hard work. Following her passing, life changed dramatically. He:

• Sold the family farm.
• Moved closer to his daughter's school.
• Took a new chemistry position.
• Continued operating Chocolate Alchemy on the side.

Eventually, even that schedule became impossible. After studying years of financial data, John realized the business had reached a point where it could support a full-time commitment. He also had savings available if the transition failed.

Rather than making an emotional decision, he relied on measurable growth. His revenue charts showed a consistent exponential trend, giving him confidence that the business had reached a sustainable stage. After leaving chemistry, that prediction proved accurate as growth continued and he eventually hired his first employee.

Expanding Into Three Warehouses Through Steady Growth

As Chocolate Alchemy continued to grow, John expanded only when the business demanded it. Rather than leasing more space based on future expectations, he waited until each location reached capacity before taking the next step.

The business eventually grew from a home workshop into three warehouses within the same business complex. That expansion reflected John's conservative approach to growth:

• Move only when existing space is full.
• Add capacity based on customer demand.
• Avoid taking on unnecessary financial risk.
• Let the business fund each new stage of expansion.

John explained that each move happened because the previous space could no longer support the business. By allowing demand to dictate when to expand, Chocolate Alchemy scaled steadily while avoiding the pressure that often comes with growing too quickly.

Watching the Numbers Instead of Chasing Assumptions

One of John's clearest pieces of advice focused on timing. He believes many entrepreneurs rely too heavily on future projections instead of historical evidence.

Instead of asking whether sales might increase someday, he recommends asking whether the business already demonstrates consistent momentum. Questions worth asking include:

• Have monthly sales steadily increased?
• Is customer demand becoming predictable?
• Does existing data support future expectations?
• Can the business survive if growth slows?

He cautioned against building financial plans around optimistic assumptions such as selling hundreds of products each month without any sales history to support those expectations. His decision to leave chemistry was based on years of data rather than hope alone.

Building Trust by Giving Knowledge Away

One of Chocolate Alchemy's most distinctive marketing strategies is surprisingly simple. John has spent decades giving away nearly everything he knows.

His website contains approximately three million words of educational content covering chocolate making, equipment, troubleshooting, and customer questions. He also writes an ongoing feature called “Ask the Alchemist,” where he answers detailed questions submitted by customers.

Rather than treating education as a product, he viewed it as a marketing advantage. His philosophy centers around several ideas:

• Teach generously.
• Build credibility through consistency.
• Become the trusted expert.
• Sell the products people need after trust has been earned.

John recognized early that information eventually becomes public. Instead of trying to charge for education, he chose to become the primary source of reliable information. That decision helped establish Chocolate Alchemy as an authority within the craft chocolate community.

Expanding Products Without Creating Confusion

As the company matured, Chocolate Alchemy expanded beyond cocoa beans. Today the business generates revenue from multiple product categories. These include:

• Cocoa beans from roughly 20 to 30 origins
• Roasted nibs
• Small-scale chocolate equipment
• Custom-designed winnowers
• Chocolate making kits
• Wholesale bean distribution

John estimates that roughly half of the company's revenue comes from bean sales. He also shared that the business is currently split at approximately 60% retail and 40% wholesale. That diversification helped stabilize the business through changing market conditions. When one category slowed, another often compensated.

Learning That More Products Are Not Always Better

One lesson surprised John more than almost anything else. At one point, Chocolate Alchemy offered approximately 36 different cocoa bean origins. Rather than increasing sales, the large catalog produced decision fatigue.

Customers struggled to choose between so many options, leading sales to decline. The company eventually reduced the number of bean varieties and became much more selective about inventory. The current approach emphasizes:

• Carrying products the team truly believes in
• Maintaining roughly the mid-20s in available bean origins
• Removing slower-moving inventory
• Reducing customer confusion

Instead of offering endless choices, John focuses on helping customers make better decisions. That shift simplified inventory management while improving the buying experience.

Adapting as Customer Expectations Change

John also discussed one of the biggest challenges facing long-running businesses. Customer behavior has changed dramatically. Years ago, people willingly spent hours reading detailed educational articles. Today, many prefer quick summaries and short-form videos.

Chocolate Alchemy has worked to adapt without abandoning its identity. Recent efforts have included:

• Simplifying website organization
• Making educational resources easier to locate
• Streamlining explanations
• Removing unnecessary complexity

John admitted this transition hasn't been easy. His natural tendency is to explain topics in great depth because that reflects how he learned them himself. Teaching beginners eventually showed him that simpler explanations often produce better results. As he summarized during the conversation, simplicity comes after complexity has been resolved.

Finding a Competitive Advantage Beyond Passion

Toward the end of the interview, John returned to one recurring theme. Passion alone is rarely enough. He encourages aspiring founders to examine what unique expertise they bring into a market. Ethics, quality products, and compelling stories all matter, especially in specialty industries.

Once those become standard expectations, differentiation comes from something more specific. Questions worth considering include:

• What experience do competitors lack?
• What skills transfer from a previous career?
• What unique perspective shapes your products?
• Why should customers choose your business?

For John, the answer was clear. His background in chemistry gave him a scientific framework that transformed chocolate making into something accessible for thousands of people.

Final Thoughts

John Nanci's story is much bigger than chocolate. It's a reminder that expertise built over decades can become the foundation for a completely different career when paired with patience, thoughtful planning, and a willingness to teach others.

Chocolate Alchemy didn't grow through overnight success or aggressive expansion. It grew because John identified an overlooked niche, trusted long-term data over speculation, simplified when complexity became a problem, and spent years earning customer trust through education.

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• Learn more about Chocolate Alchemy

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The post How John Nanci Built a Business With 50% of Revenue Coming From Cocoa Beans appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Jeff Price and I discuss how he built Texas Slab Guys into a concrete business with a $2 million annual revenue run rate in just 12 months. His story is especially interesting because he left fintech and startup life to pursue a “boring” blue-collar business in Houston.

Jeff shares how he used AI to save time, qualify leads, answer missed calls, and improve margins without trying to replace physical work. We also talk about hiring mistakes, premium positioning, customer service, and why reliability can remain a major advantage for local service businesses.

Watch the Full Episode

Leaving Fintech to Build a Concrete Company

Jeff's background is far removed from concrete. Before launching Texas Slab Guys, he worked in corporate strategy and finance, founded a fintech company that raised $2 million, completed an MBA at Rice University, and later worked at a Series B startup that had raised more than $30 million.

Although entrepreneurship appealed to him, his first venture didn’t become the financial success he hoped for. Instead of returning to another startup, he decided to pursue business ownership in a completely different industry.

His original plan wasn't to launch a concrete company from scratch. He spent months researching blue-collar businesses that fit a specific set of criteria before attempting to acquire one. He contacted thousands of owners and narrowed his search to only a handful of potential acquisitions before a deal eventually fell apart.

That failed acquisition introduced him to the concrete industry and showed him the opportunity available in Houston. A few factors convinced him to move forward:

• High demand for concrete services
• Large local market
• Opportunity to stand apart through customer experience
• An industry where AI cannot replace the physical work

Houston also has more concrete per capita than any other metropolitan area in the Americas, making it an attractive location for this type of business.

Building Momentum After a Difficult Start

The first several months were far from perfect. Jeff finished 2025 with less than $200,000 in revenue and admits he made nearly every mistake possible during those early months. One of the biggest problems involved hiring dependable subcontractors.

Rather than technical knowledge, reliability became the biggest challenge. He discovered that success depended on finding people who would:

• Show up when scheduled
• Deliver consistent artistry
• Communicate clearly
• Follow through on commitments

Once he assembled a dependable team, growth accelerated. Jeff describes that turning point as the moment the business finally began gaining traction during the first half of 2026.

Winning Customers by Doing the Simple Things Well

Many business owners spend enormous amounts of time searching for complicated marketing strategies. Jeff believes his biggest advantage comes from something much simpler.

He noticed that many competitors failed to answer their phones or missed appointments with potential customers. That created an opportunity to stand apart without dramatically increasing marketing spend. His team focuses on a few consistent habits:

• Answer every phone call possible
• Arrive on time
• Finish projects as promised
• Ask satisfied customers for video testimonials

Those testimonials are then shared across platforms including Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook, creating a steady stream of social proof that reinforces the company's reputation. Instead of competing only on price, Jeff says many residential customers later introduce him to commercial opportunities after seeing the quality of his work firsthand.

Using AI to Remove Friction Instead of Replacing People

One of the most interesting parts of our conversation centered on Jeff's approach to artificial intelligence. He doesn't view AI as something that replaces concrete contractors. Instead, he uses it to remove repetitive administrative work that slows business growth.

His custom quoting system helps qualify leads before someone spends hours driving across Houston to meet with prospects who may never become customers. Rather than immediately scheduling every estimate, the tool gathers information that helps determine:

• Project size
• Customer urgency
• Estimated pricing
• Lead quality

Jeff built much of this system himself using Replit, allowing him to create software through natural language prompts rather than traditional programming. Although the system doesn't eliminate every in-person estimate, it reduces wasted trips and allows him to spend more time with qualified prospects.

Saving Time One Hour at a Time

Jeff was careful not to exaggerate AI's impact. He explained that his quoting tool has not eliminated entire workdays. Instead, it consistently saves small amounts of time that add up over weeks and months. Those time savings include:

• Faster lead qualification
• Fewer unnecessary site visits
• Less administrative work
• More time spent on sales conversations

He described these improvements as compounding gains rather than overnight transformations. That perspective offers a refreshing contrast to many AI discussions that promise dramatic overnight changes.

Why an AI Voice Agent Became One of His Best Investments

Jeff also uses an AI voice agent to answer calls whenever he cannot. For roughly $100 per month, the system answers missed calls, gathers customer information, summarizes conversations, and sends him a text recap immediately afterward. The voice agent collects information including:

• Customer name
• Phone number
• Email address
• ZIP code
• Project description

One story perfectly illustrates its value. While Jeff was meeting another customer, a man named Dwayne called after failing to reach five other concrete companies. The AI agent handled the conversation, collected the necessary details, and created an opportunity that eventually became a $15,000 project.

Even more impressive, Jeff estimated that the project would require only about $3,000 in direct costs, making it an exceptionally profitable job. Without someone answering the phone, that opportunity likely would have gone elsewhere.

Treating AI as a Force Multiplier

Jeff repeatedly emphasized one idea throughout our discussion. AI works best when it multiplies people's productivity rather than replacing them.

He believes many service businesses can benefit from inexpensive automation simply by making themselves easier to contact. Many local businesses still miss incoming phone calls every day. For service companies such as:

• Plumbers
• Electricians
• Lawn care providers
• Contractors
• Cleaning companies

An AI receptionist can prevent missed opportunities without requiring expensive software development. Jeff views these systems as productivity multipliers that eliminate repetitive administrative tasks, allowing owners to focus on higher-value activities.

Standing Out Through Premium Service

Competing solely on price rarely creates long-term success. Jeff chose a different strategy. His company installs 5,000 PSI concrete, enabling customers to drive on new driveways much sooner than many competing installations. 

That premium positioning creates advantages beyond the material itself. Customers value:

• Shorter project disruption
• Reliable scheduling
• Better communication
• Consistent artistry

Jeff shared that many homeowners willingly pay more because minimizing inconvenience matters more than finding the lowest quote. That premium approach also generates referrals.

One satisfied residential customer later hired his company for commercial work connected to a dental practice, creating another profitable project through reputation rather than advertising.

Measuring Growth by More Than Revenue

The financial growth has been remarkable. Just over one year after launch, Texas Slab Guys reached a revenue run rate exceeding $2 million annually. Jeff also shared several performance metrics:

• Roughly 50% gross margins per project
• Approximately 10% to 20% overhead
• Nearly $80,000 in revenue during June alone

Those numbers reflect a business that has grown rapidly while continuing to refine its operations. Still, one part of the conversation stood out more than any financial statistic. Jeff explained that entrepreneurship changed what success means to him.

Early in his career, financial freedom represented the primary goal. Today, he defines success differently. He wants the flexibility to coach his children's sports teams, spend more afternoons with his family, and control how he invests his time.

That shift highlights something many entrepreneurs eventually discover. Building a business creates financial opportunities, although the greatest reward may be the freedom to spend time on the people who matter most.

Learning Through Hiring Mistakes

Jeff also reflected on one lesson that shaped his first year more than any software tool. Finding dependable people proved far more difficult than learning the technical side of concrete work.

He openly admitted making poor hiring decisions before assembling a reliable team. His approach now centers on long-term relationships built through:

• Paying partners promptly
• Communicating clearly
• Treating subcontractors with respect
• Building consistent operating procedures

Once trust developed inside the business, Jeff found it much easier to focus on growing the company rather than solving daily operational problems.

Final Thoughts

Jeff Price's story offers an interesting reminder that opportunity often exists in industries many entrepreneurs overlook.

Rather than chasing the latest software trend, he built a concrete business, embraced AI where it made sense, and concentrated on solving everyday customer frustrations. His approach combines dependable service, thoughtful automation, and steady operational improvements instead of relying on flashy technology alone.

Perhaps the biggest takeaway from this conversation is that AI doesn't have to replace traditional businesses. In many cases, it simply gives owners more time to focus on serving customers, building relationships, and creating companies that continue growing long after the first year.

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• Learn more about Texas Slab Guys

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The post How Jeff Price Built a $2M Concrete Business in 12 Months appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Chad Howard and I discuss how he left a decade-long corporate career and built Halftime Rentals into a fast-growing porta potty rental business. It's not a flashy business, yet Chad’s story shows how a simple service company can grow quickly when the founder moves fast, serves customers well, and takes bold action.

Launched in mid-2024, Halftime Rentals is already on pace for about $4.5 million in annual revenue. The company has nearly 1,900 units under lease, 9 full-time service trucks, 15 employees, and an average EBITDA margin of around 30% over the past six months.

Watch the Full Episode

From Corporate America to Porta Potties

Chad’s path into entrepreneurship didn't begin with a lifelong dream of renting portable toilets.

He spent 10 years at Procter & Gamble, where he moved through different roles, lived in 8 states, and built a successful corporate career. For a long time, he thought that career path might be his future.

The porta potty idea first came to him through his now-business partner, Austin. Austin had been involved in blue-collar search-fund work and had looked closely at portable-toilet businesses. He saw the financials, studied the model, and kept encouraging Chad to consider launching one.

For years, Chad brushed off the idea. At the time, he was making good money and climbing the corporate ladder. Leaving that behind for a messy, hands-on service business felt like a major jump. A few things eventually changed:

• Chad reached a breaking point with corporate life
• He became more interested in owning his own company
• He shadowed existing porta potty businesses
• He saw that the model had clear demand
• He realized the business did not need to be reinvented, only run better

By early 2024, Chad had raised money from friends and family. By the summer, he had quit his job, moved to Charlotte, and launched Halftime Rentals.

Going All in From Day One

Many entrepreneurs build on the side before leaving their full-time job. Chad took a different route. He quit first, raised capital, moved cities, and gave the business his full attention from day one. That approach carried risk, and he knew it.

For Chad, the decision came down to two main factors. First, he knew his own personality. He didn't want one foot in corporate life and one foot in entrepreneurship. Second, the business required local, hands-on attention.

This wasn't a website he could work on at night from another state. He needed to be in Charlotte, meeting with customers, delivering toilets, resolving truck issues, and building routes during normal business hours.

His decision was also shaped by the advice he received. When he talked with people older than him, especially those over 50, he kept hearing the same message. They told him to take the chance, often saying they regretted not betting on themselves earlier. That repeated advice made an impact.

The Six-Month Setup Before Launch

Although Chad made a bold jump, he didn't rush into the business unthinkingly. He spent about six months preparing before launch. During that time, he worked through the details so that once he was ready, he could move quickly. His preparation included:

• Choosing the right software
• Shadowing other portable toilet operators
• Learning what he liked and disliked about the industry
• Setting up the website
• Choosing suppliers
• Planning truck and toilet purchases
• Building enough confidence to act quickly

Once he made the final decision, he was able to place orders and set the company in motion within about a week. That preparation mattered. Later, when a major crisis created sudden demand, Chad already had the mindset and supplier knowledge needed to move at speed.

The Early Days Without a Safety Net

Chad came from Procter & Gamble, a company with structure, process, and support. Then he entered a business where every day looked different. Some days he was in a truck. Other days he was cold-calling, emailing prospects, visiting job sites, fixing equipment, or trying to figure out who to hire.

The hardest part early on was the uncertainty. He had to create his own schedule, his own systems, and priorities. There was no department to call when something broke.

That early stretch forced him to learn by doing. He had to solve problems he had never faced before. He also had to get comfortable with the fact that a service business rarely provides a perfectly normal day.

Hurricane Helene as the Turning Point

A few months after launching, Halftime Rentals was still tiny. Chad estimates the company had about 100 toilets rented out and only one truck operating. Then Hurricane Helene hit western North Carolina.

On a Sunday morning, Chad was picking up toilets from a Carolina Panthers tailgate when he received a call from Home Depot’s corporate office. They needed portable toilets for stores in the greater Asheville area so they could open and support recovery efforts.

At first, Chad said no. Asheville was about two hours away from Charlotte. The request meant loading toilets immediately, driving into a disaster zone, and delivering them in time for stores to open the next day.

Then he reconsidered. He called back, quoted a premium price, and Home Depot accepted. That one decision changed the direction of the company. The original order was roughly 10-12 toilets per store across 4 stores. For a company with about 100 toilets, that was a huge order. The next 24 hours were intense:

• Chad and Austin loaded toilets themselves
• They delivered into Asheville with a police escort
• His phone number was now in front of Home Depot customers
• The next day, he had more than 200 voicemails
• Demand exploded from stores, restaurants, relief groups, and major retailers

Chad moved fast. He financed multiple trucks in a single day, secured 500 toilets, found a place to stage them at a community college parking lot, rented an RV, and slept on a friend’s goat farm while responding to calls for up to 20 hours a day.

It was chaotic, stressful, and full of risk. It also became the catalyst that helped turn Halftime Rentals from a tiny startup into a much larger operation.

Speed, Risk, and First-Mover Advantage

The Hurricane Helene response not only created a short-term revenue spike. It changed how Chad thinks about the business. After responding to a natural disaster only a few months after launch, large emergency orders no longer feel as intimidating.

His default response became yes. That mindset helped the company take on urgent jobs that competitors might ignore. It also helped Halftime Rentals build credibility with brokers and major retail partners.

Financially, the impact was huge. Chad said that one month allowed the company to cash flow nearly all of the assets it added during the disaster response. That included multiple trucks and hundreds of toilets.

The experience also created relationships that followed the company back to Charlotte.

Some of the brokers calling during the emergency worked with major retailers like:

• Walmart
• Target
• Home Depot
• Lowe’s
• Salvation Army-related needs
• Other large commercial accounts

After serving those customers in Asheville, Chad followed up in Charlotte. He said that Halftime Rentals had already helped them during a high-pressure moment. That opened doors.

Why a “Boring” Business Can Be Anything But Boring

Chad finds the term “boring business” funny now. From the outside, portable toilet rentals look simple. You deliver the unit, service it weekly, and pick it up when the job is done. Inside the business, the day-to-day is far more complex.

There are trucks, routes, repairs, customer complaints, emergency deliveries, scheduling challenges, and hundreds of active job sites. Chad said he can probably count on one hand the number of truly boring days he has had at Halftime Rentals.

Still, the model has clear advantages. The business already exists. Demand already exists. Customers already know they need the service.

Chad doesn't have to convince the market that portable toilets are useful. He only has to deliver the service better than competitors. That is a major part of what attracted him to the opportunity. The market also has built-in demand drivers:

• Charlotte and the Southeast continue to see construction activity
• Job sites are legally required to have portable toilets
• The product is a need, not a luxury
• More construction means more rental demand
• Customers value reliability when the service affects daily job site operations

That combination made the business simple in concept, yet highly attractive when run well.

Marketing That Makes a Utility Business Memorable

Chad credits much of Halftime Rentals’ growth to three marketing and sales engines. The first is persistent selling. Chad, his business partner, and his sales manager keep showing up, following up, and staying in front of prospects.

The second is Google Maps. Halftime Rentals is listed as open 24/7. That made a major difference during Hurricane Helene, since competitors were not listed as open on a Sunday. It still matters today.

When someone searches for portable toilet rental after 5:00 PM or on a weekend, Halftime Rentals is often the company that appears available. That creates emergency jobs, new relationships, and higher-value orders.

The third engine is brand personality. Halftime Rentals has leaned into humor and memorable merchandise. Their hats and shirts use phrases like “get shit done,” which has helped the company stand out on job sites.

That branding works because it feels authentic to the business. It gives people something to remember, talk about, and ask for. Chad said he has walked onto job sites where people already know the hats and request one. For a small part of a construction site, that kind of recognition matters.

Reviews as a Local Growth Engine

Reviews have been one of Halftime Rentals’ most important local marketing assets. Chad created a simple incentive program for drivers. When a driver gets a Google review that mentions their name, they receive a $25 Amazon gift card.

That system gives drivers a reason to ask happy customers for reviews. It also connects the review to a specific employee, which reinforces accountability and pride. Some drivers have embraced the program so much that Chad said one has earned more than $3,000 in Amazon gift cards. This system works because it benefits everyone.

• Drivers earn extra rewards.
• Customers mention specific service moments.
• The company gains more reviews.
• Google Maps visibility improves.
• The best employees get public recognition.

Chad also tracks local search performance using Local Falcon, which shows where Halftime Rentals ranks across different parts of Charlotte.

That helps him see where the company needs more reviews, photos, or activity on the Google Business Profile. The goal is simple: show up first when customers need a portable toilet rental.

Customer Service From the Driver’s Seat

Chad sees his drivers as the face of the company. Customers usually don't see Chad in the office. They see the person delivering, cleaning, servicing, or moving the toilet on-site. As a result, Chad makes it clear that drivers are customer service representatives.

That mindset has shaped the company’s culture. Drivers are encouraged to build relationships, take pride in the work, and solve problems on-site. Chad also tries to create an environment where employees enjoy their days.

He believes that when drivers are treated well, paid well, and appreciated, they put out a better product. That creates better customer interactions and, in turn, stronger reviews and repeat business.

The company also uses positive incentives. For example, Halftime Rentals performs “drop-ins,” where someone inspects a serviced toilet. When the unit meets the company standard, the driver can earn a $50 bonus for that day.

New driver training lasts about a week. During that period, new hires ride with different experienced drivers. Those trainers also receive bonuses because Chad wants them to recognize the long-term impact of setting a high standard.

Chad’s Role as the Company Scales

In the first 8 to 12 months, Chad spent most of his time in trucks. He was pumping toilets, cleaning units, picking up inventory, and making deliveries. He estimates that around 80 percent of his days involved some form of manual labor.

That has changed as the company has grown. He still gets in a truck when needed, although he now has enough drivers to spend more time on higher-level work. He estimates that getting out of the truck has given him back 2 to 3 hours per day. His current time is divided across three main areas:

• Supporting drivers and helping solve daily problems
• Training people into larger operational roles
• Selling and following up with prospects

Chad wants the business to keep running even when he steps away. That means putting people and processes in place so the company is not dependent on him for every decision. At the same time, he remains heavily involved with the team and the sales process.

The Next Stage for Halftime Rentals

Chad’s near-term goal is clear. He wants Halftime Rentals to become the largest and best portable toilet company in the greater Charlotte area. He believes the business can double or triple in the next 2 to 3 years.

For now, he's staying focused on Charlotte. He does have interest in expanding to other Southeast markets later. One idea that excites him is investing in people who want to leave corporate America and helping them launch Halftime Rentals in other cities.

That vision can wait. Right now, the focus is market dominance in Charlotte. Chad wants to win there before adding new locations or new service lines.

Lessons Chad Learned the Easy Way and the Hard Way

One thing Chad believes he got right was having a partner. His business partner, Austin, helped him through the hardest early days. Chad said he might have quit or lost momentum without someone beside him in the trenches.

That support mattered during the launch. It mattered even more during the Hurricane Helene response, when the company had to make large decisions under pressure and execute them immediately.

One thing Chad would change is moving faster on personnel decisions. He said he waited too long to let go of employees who were not the right fit for the company. He wanted people to succeed so badly that he ignored what he already knew.

Looking back, he believes the company could have reached its current level sooner with better people in the right seats earlier. That lesson is simple:

• The team sets the pace
• Delayed decisions create hidden costs
• Hope is not a hiring strategy
• Culture gets easier when the right people are in place

Final Thoughts

Chad Howard’s story is a great example of what can happen when a founder combines preparation, speed, service, and a willingness to take risk. Halftime Rentals was only a few months old when Hurricane Helene created a massive need.

Chad could have passed on the opportunity, and no one would have blamed him. Instead, he said yes, figured it out, and built momentum that changed the company’s trajectory. 

The business works because the fundamentals are clear. Customers need the service, the market demand is established, and many competitors leave room for better communication, faster response times, and better customer care.

Chad didn't invent a new category. He entered an existing one and focused on doing the basics better, from answering emergency calls to rewarding drivers for great work. That approach has helped Halftime Rentals reach nearly 1,900 units on rent and a projected $4.5 million in annual revenue in under two years.

For anyone thinking about leaving corporate America, buying or building a service business, or taking a serious shot at entrepreneurship, Chad’s story offers a lot to think about.

Sometimes the opportunity isn't glamorous. Sometimes it's sitting in a blue-collar industry that others overlook. And sometimes, the difference comes down to answering the phone, saying yes, and getting the job done.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Halftime Rentals
• Connect with Chad

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The post How Chad Howard Built a $4.5 Million Porta Potty Business in Less Than Two Years appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s Niche Pursuits podcast, Nick Gray and I discuss turning personal passions into sellable businesses, the trust-building power of books, and the modern role of personal websites in SEO and reputation. This atypical interview challenges standard marketing ideas and explores unconventional paths to authority.

The first half followed a familiar path: Nick shared how he built Museum Hack from casual museum tours for friends into a company that sold for millions. The second half turned into a back-and-forth conversation about personal websites, authority, entity clarity, and what business owners may be missing when they focus only on their company site.

Watch the Full Episode

How a Hobby Became Museum Hack

Nick Gray didn't set out to become a museum entrepreneur. He moved to New York City, started visiting the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and began showing friends around for fun.

The Met gave him plenty of material to work with:

• 2.7 million square feet of space
• Roughly 50 acres inside Central Park
• Enough scale to feel overwhelming to casual visitors
• A reputation that could intimidate people who did not see themselves as “museum people”

Nick wasn't trained in art history. He had never been a tour guide. That became part of the advantage. Instead of designing tours for art lovers, he built tours for people who thought museums were boring. He focused on stories, gossip, money, romance, rivalry, and the strange details that traditional tours often skip.

How Charging Changed the Product

At first, Nick gave tours to friends. Then, friends referred other friends. A blog wrote about his tours, calling them one of the best things to do in New York City, and more than 1,000 people wanted to join.

That demand forced a hard decision: charge money or keep treating it like a hobby. Nick started small, somewhere around $19 or $29 per person. On the first paid tour, he gave everyone their money back because he enjoyed the experience so much.

Charging still proved to be one of the best business decisions he made. Once people paid, they treated the experience with more respect. A few pricing details stood out:

• Museum Hack tours later sold for $79 to $99 per person.
• The company targeted people willing to pay for experiences, such as concerts, Broadway shows, sports, and other city activities.
• A standard museum tour might cover 5 or 6 pieces per hour.
• Museum Hack tours covered around 15 pieces per hour.
• The pace, humor, and storytelling made the product feel different from the start.

That positioning mattered. Nick wasn't selling access to the museum. He was selling a more entertaining way to experience it.

The Business That Scaled Beyond Nick

One of the hardest parts of any personality-driven business is getting the founder out of the delivery role. Nick faced that problem early.

A friend told him the business could never scale because Nick was the product. Instead of accepting that, Nick hired people who could carry the experience's energy. His hiring strategy was unusual:

• Stand-up comedians
• Broadway actors
• Freelancers are used to flexible work
• People might want to grab a drink after the tour

That decision helped Museum Hack grow beyond one guide and one city. The first expansion was Washington, DC, partly because it was close enough to New York to manage.

The cities that worked best had two traits: large visitor demand and a deep freelance labor pool. New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco all had people with side gigs, performance backgrounds, and flexible schedules.

How Museum Hack Worked With Museums

Museum Hack started as a renegade tour company, which meant the museums didn't sanction it. That created tension. Museums sometimes tried to shut the company down. Nick and his team had to work around rules, deal with uncertainty, and find ways to keep tours running.

Eventually, the relationship became more cooperative. If Museum Hack sold a $79 tour, it would cover the full museum admission price for each guest, which is typically around $25. That made the value clearer:

• Museums received ticket revenue
• Visitors came who might not have visited otherwise
• Museum Hack handled the guest experience
• The tour company kept control of its distinct style

It was not a friction-free model. Yet the arrangement showed how a company can shift from an outsider to a revenue partner when incentives are aligned.

Nick's Eventual Exit

Nick never expected to sell Museum Hack. It was labor-heavy, unusual, and not the kind of clean software business many buyers chase.

The company grew into multiple cities and reached many millions in revenue. Nick said he worked hard to turn it into a $5 million to $10 million company, yet he could not break through the $3 million in annual sales.

By then, he had worked himself out of daily operations. His leadership team was running the company and eventually approached him with an offer to buy it.

The deal used full seller financing, which isn't common. In Nick’s case, the buyers put down zero dollars and paid him from the company's profits over time. That structure worked because of trust:

• The buyers were already running the business
• They knew the numbers
• They had a deep company context
• Nick believed they were committed to keeping growing it

He sold the business in 2019. Then COVID hit, museums shut down, and the company’s revenue went to zero.

The new owners pivoted into remote team-building experiences. Nick described that painful restart as a blessing because it pushed the business toward better margins and a more profitable model.

A Book Built a Different Kind of Asset

After selling Museum Hack in 2019, Nick launched The 2-Hour Cocktail Party in 2022. He had wanted to write a book for branding reasons, yet he wanted it to be more than a thought-leadership project.

He wanted a tactical, workbook-style guide for hosting small gatherings. His specialty was events for 15 to 25 people, and the book gave him a way to teach that formula at scale.

The financial side was less attractive. Nick spent about $60,000 on top-level design, layout, and publishing support. A few book details stood out:

• It took about five years to write and release
• It was self-published
• Nick wrote it with support from a team of writers
• The design and layout were major investments
• The direct financial ROI was not the main reward

The book built trust in a way reminiscent of podcasting. When someone spends hours with your ideas, they form a deeper connection than they might from a short post or social update.

LLMs Changed the Book Question

Nick also discussed whether business nonfiction books still hold the same value in the age of LLMs. That question matters for entrepreneurs who are thinking about writing one.

A book can still build authority, create connection, and give people a structured way to spend time with your ideas. The harder question is whether a book is the best format today. Other formats may compete for attention:

• Blog series
• Online courses
• Short videos
• Podcasts
• Email newsletters
• AI-assisted learning paths

Nick said he was happy he wrote his book when he did. He was less certain he would choose the same route today if he were comparing it to newer formats.

Personal Websites Became the Next Business

Nick’s newest project is PersonalWebsites.org, a service that builds and manages personal websites. His basic offer is around $29 per month.

This passion comes from his own experience. Nick has had a personal website for 25 to 26 years, and he credits it with helping him meet people, create relationships, and shape how he appears online.

The argument is simple: people Google names. They also ask AI tools about people, companies, founders, service providers, and potential partners. A personal website gives someone a place to tell that story directly. Use cases include:

• Business owners who want a profile beyond the company site
• Professionals who want to own their name online
• Parents who want a basic public presence
• Founders who may sell a company someday
• Buyers reaching out to business owners
• Speakers, authors, consultants, and operators

Nick stressed that this isn't about burying negative search results. It's proactive reputation work, focused on giving people a credible source about who they are.

How Jared’s Website Became Part of the Interview

The interview took an unexpected turn when Nick pulled up JaredBauman.com and gave a kind live critique. That shifted the conversation from a standard interview into something closer to the old Niche Pursuits news episodes.

Nick liked that Jared’s site included strong photos, a speaker highlight reel, endorsements, testimonials, and authority signals. He also suggested breaking the site into more pages. His main suggestion was to create more “surface area” around the person:

• A separate about page
• A contact page
• A photo page
• Dedicated pages for speaking or media
• More indexable pages tied to the name

The point wasn't to turn a personal site into a second company site. It was to provide search engines and AI systems with more structured signals about the person, their work, and their relationships with other entities.

Nick's Take on How Personal Websites Support SEO and GEO

The conversation moved into SEO, GEO, AEO, and the role personal websites can play in helping machines distinguish between people and brands. In this context, Jared Bauman, as a person, is one entity, while 201 Creative, as a business, is another.

That separation matters when founders and companies are closely tied together. Many local businesses blur the line between the owner and the company, making it harder for Google and AI systems to tell who is who. A personal site can help clarify:

• The person’s career history
• The person’s current company
• Past ventures
• Podcast appearances
• Speaking experience
• Associations, education, and public work
• Links between the person and the business

Nick shared that his team migrated about 80 personal websites from WordPress to a static setup using Payload CMS and Astro. Their PageSpeed Insights scores increased from around 87-88 to around 99.

That technical improvement matters because personal websites are often simple. They can be quick, static, clean, and easy for search engines to process.

Nick’s New Business Is Growing

Nick described PersonalWebsites.org as being about a year into the business. He compared it to Museum Hack in its early phase, when he spent years experimenting before treating it as a larger company.

At the time of the interview, he had around 80 clients and was doing roughly $3,000 to $4,000 per month. The business is still finding its sharper market focus. Possible customer groups include:

• Real estate professionals
• Lawyers
• Doctors
• Business buyers
• Business sellers
• Local business owners
• Professionals with public reputations

Nick wants the service to remain personal while also exploring ways to make it more scalable. That tension mirrors the same issue he faced with Museum Hack: how do you grow something without losing the quality that made it work?

Final Thoughts

This episode started with a highly unusual business story, moved into the value of books, and then turned into a live discussion about personal websites, authority, GEO, and how people show up online.

Nick Gray’s career has a clear thread through all three projects. He takes things that feel overlooked, such as museum tours, small gatherings, and personal websites, then makes them more useful, more fun, and easier to act on.

The biggest takeaway is that personal reputation is becoming a more visible business asset. Whether someone is selling a company, building authority, winning local clients, or trying to ensure AI tools describe them accurately, owning a clear personal website may become much more important than many people think.

Links & Resources

• Connect with Nick
• Learn more about Personal Websites
• See the Internet's biggest database of public donations
• Buy or look inside The 2-Hour Cocktail Party
• Subscribe to Nick's newsletter

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The post How Nick Gray Turned a Hobby Into a Multi-Million Dollar Exit and Launched a Personal Website Business appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Ben Bozzay and I discuss how Tech Lockdown grew from a personal problem into a SaaS business generating $20K in monthly recurring revenue. What makes Ben’s story so interesting is how many times the business changed shape. 

It started as free content, became paid content, turned into a membership, added a DNS filtering product, and then grew into a more complete software business. That path wasn't planned from day one. Ben was trying to solve his own problem, sharing what he learned, and paying attention when people kept asking for more help.

Watch the Full Episode

Ben's Origin Story

Ben’s background sits at the intersection of software development, cybersecurity, and SEO. Before Tech Lockdown became a business, he had worked in engineering roles at cybersecurity companies. He had also run a marketing agency, which gave him experience with search traffic and online content. That mix turned out to be a major advantage.

During the COVID lockdowns in 2020, Ben noticed his own internet habits getting out of hand. Like a lot of people working from home, he was spending more time online than he wanted. He started looking for ways to create stronger guardrails around his internet use.

The problem was that Ben is technical. He knew how to bypass most consumer website blockers and app blockers. So instead of using basic tools, he began applying enterprise-style controls to his own devices. That meant using concepts like:

• Mobile device management
• DNS filtering
• Cybersecurity-style restrictions
• Managed device controls
• Harder-to-bypass blocking systems

These weren't the usual tools marketed to individuals. They were systems companies used to control work devices. That became the seed of Tech Lockdown.

The First Content Experiments

At first, Ben wasn't trying to build a company. He wrote posts on Medium, shared on Reddit, made YouTube videos, and explained what he was doing to create a healthier digital workspace. The response surprised him.

People weren't just reading. They were commenting, emailing, and asking for consulting help. That told him the problem was broader than his own situation. He had found a gap in the market:

• Adults wanted stronger device controls for themselves.
• Many tools focused on parents managing their children’s devices.
• Technical users needed deeper solutions.
• People wanted step-by-step help, not vague advice.

The early content was valuable because it came from direct experimentation. Ben was using test devices, trying systems himself, and documenting the process in detail. That made his work different from generic “best website blocker” articles.

The Shift Into Paid Content

By 2021, Ben had moved from posting on other platforms to publishing on Tech Lockdown. Google began picking up his content, which gave him a new source of traffic. Since he already had SEO experience, he started to see how this could become more than a hobby.

The first monetization step was a paid membership section. This wasn't software yet. It was more like productized consulting.

People paid for more complete guides that saved them hours of setup time. Instead of searching across scattered articles and forums, they could follow a more organized process. The paid content worked because the free content had already built trust.

Ben’s strategy was to give away highly useful information for free first. That helped build trust with people who were trying to solve the same problem. Once they saw the value of his free content, a paid resource felt like a natural next step because it could save them even more time.

The Move Toward SaaS

Paid content gave Ben early revenue, but it had limits. Most customers only needed the information long enough to set up their system. Once they had the guides and completed the process, there wasn't much reason to keep paying every month.

That pushed Ben toward SaaS. Around 2022, he began offering a DNS filtering service. At first, the product was simple. Customers could choose from a few presets, although they could not customize much.

Even that basic product changed the business. It gave customers something ongoing to use, not just something to read. It also made the membership more valuable by bundling content with a tool that helped solve the same problem. The progression looked like this:

• 2020: Free content on Medium, Reddit, and YouTube
• 2021: Tech Lockdown and paid membership content
• 2022: DNS filtering service added
• 2023: More mature product and full-time focus
• 2024 and 2025: Organic traffic reached its strongest period

That slow evolution is one of the biggest lessons from the interview. Ben didn't jump straight into building the perfect product. He followed the demand step by step.

Layoff Forced a Decision

In 2023, Ben was laid off after switching jobs. The company had overhired and cut 10% of its workforce. Suddenly, Tech Lockdown went from a side project to a serious option.

At that point, the business had roughly 300 customers. Profit was less than $2,000 per month. That wasn't enough to replace his salary. The timing was stressful for several reasons:

• Ben and his wife had recently bought their first home.
• His wife wasn't legally allowed to work at the time.
• They were planning to start a family.

In other words, the business was barely covering the new healthcare costs alone. Ben also received a good job offer during this period. Taking it would have been the safer financial choice.

His wife encouraged him to keep going with Tech Lockdown. She believed in the business even when the early full-time months showed little growth. That detail stands out because the transition wasn't instantly successful.

The first few months after going full-time were flat. Ben was working intense hours, yet revenue didn't immediately take off.

Content Strategy That Drove Growth

Ben’s main growth channel was SEO. He chose not to spread himself across every platform. Instead, he focused on the channel he knew best, writing detailed content that could rank in search.

His articles worked because they were technical, specific, and based on problems people were searching for. For example, someone might not simply search “block websites.” They might look for a way to prevent themselves from ending a blocking app in Task Manager on Windows.

SEO tools might not show much search volume for that exact issue. Ben still wrote the article because he knew the problem existed. That approach helped him find traffic that other sites missed. His content had several traits:

• It answered highly specific questions.
• It used screenshots and video walkthroughs.
• It covered technical edge cases.
• It connected broad topics to specific guides.
• It relied on testing, not surface-level summaries.

At one point, Tech Lockdown reached around 70,000 organic visitors per month. That growth came during a period when many site owners were worried about Google updates and AI summaries. Ben said his site was fortunate, and he believes the depth of the content helped.

The Funnel Behind the SEO Strategy

Ben didn't only write narrow technical guides. He also created broader articles at the top of the funnel and linked them to more specific resources. For example, a broad guide about blocking websites could lead visitors to articles about:

• Blocking websites on Windows
• Restricting access on iPhone
• Preventing workarounds
• Using DNS filtering
• Setting up managed device controls

This created a content tree around the topic. It also helped Google see which pages mattered and how they related to each other. Descriptive internal links were effective because they clarified what each page covered.

The key was that the articles weren't random. They supported one another. Ben paired this with Reddit and YouTube in the early days. His process was thoughtful:

• Create a useful YouTube video.
• Write a separate Reddit post with its own value.
• Add a subtle reference to the video.
• Let Reddit engagement send early signals to YouTube.

He found that people still clicked through even when the Reddit post gave away a lot of information. That reinforced his belief in generous free content.

The Focus on Adults as the Core Market

One of the smartest decisions Ben made was narrowing the target customer. Many device control products focus on parents managing their kids’ devices. Ben saw a different audience: adults who wanted to restrict themselves.

That distinction matters. A parent can take away a child’s phone or set up a limited account. An adult has admin access, passwords, recovery options, and the ability to undo restrictions. That makes the problem harder. Ben focused on adults such as:

• Working professionals
• College students
• People building better habits
• Adults seeking accountability
• Technical users who knew common workarounds

This gave Tech Lockdown a sharper message. Instead of trying to serve everyone from the start, Ben built around a more specific use case. As he became a parent himself, the product began to expand toward family needs as well. Still, the foundation remained the same: stronger controls for people who need more than basic app blocking.

The Product Difference

Tech Lockdown stands out for its use of enterprise concepts to control personal devices. Rather than relying solely on consumer tools, Ben looked at what companies use when issuing work devices. Enterprise systems need to be harder to bypass because companies face security and financial risks.

That thinking shaped the product. For example, a managed iPhone can have a VPN that the user cannot turn off. App downloads can be restricted. Device settings can be controlled at a deeper level than most consumer apps allow.

That is the kind of control Ben wanted to bring to individuals. The setup is more advanced than typical household tools. Yet for people who have tried weaker blockers and bypassed them, that added depth is the point.

His Business Today

At the time of recording, Tech Lockdown had reached $20K in MRR. Ben called that a major milestone. It's still just him as the solo founder, with a contractor helping with customer support.

The product suite has continued to expand, especially around iPhone solutions. He also has a second product called LivingRoom, a separate app under a different brand.

LivingRoom is designed to make screen activity more visible in the home. The idea is that a device becomes more like a TV in the living room, where activity is easier for parents or accountability partners to see.

The app can show screenshots of activity and use AI to detect inappropriate content on screen. That creates a different type of safety layer from pure blocking.

Tech Lockdown is more about restriction. LivingRoom is more about visibility. Together, they serve related needs.

The AI Search Angle

SEO is still Ben’s main customer acquisition channel. He has seen more volatility as Google adds AI summaries to search results, yet organic content remains central to the business.

One insight he shared is the value of branded terminology. When AI summaries link people into follow-up search queries, branded keywords can matter. If someone searches a phrase that includes your brand or a term you own, you have a better chance of being the top result.

This means content isn't only about ranking for generic keywords. It's also about building recognizable language around your product and category. That matters even more as search behavior changes.

Lessons From Ben’s Path

Ben’s story offers many useful takeaways for niche site builders, SaaS founders, and side hustlers. The most important one may be that a business can start with documentation.

He didn't begin with a polished offer. He began by solving his own problem and writing about it. From there, each stage gave him more feedback. A few lessons stand out:

• Specific content can beat broad content.
• Free guides can create trust before a sale.
• Paid information can validate demand.
• SaaS can deliver recurring value once content establishes the need.
• A narrow audience can create clearer positioning.
• SEO can still work when the content is genuinely deep.

Another lesson is that growth doesn't always arrive on schedule. When Ben went full-time, the business didn't immediately surge. The decision came with financial pressure, family pressure, and career risk. The growth came later, after continued product improvements and content work.

Ben's Next Stage

Ben has several areas he is working on now. One of the biggest is a new iPhone management solution that doesn't require a hard reset. He described this as something he had been trying to figure out for years.

That matters because enrolling an iPhone in mobile device management has traditionally required resetting the device to gain full control. A no-reset solution could remove a major barrier for customers.

LivingRoom is another area for growth. Since it complements Tech Lockdown, customers may use both products for different parts of the same problem.

Ben is also considering hiring, though he is cautious. The business now has proprietary processes and technical insights that create added risk when bringing people in. For now, he's using AI tools and contractors to scale his own output where possible.

Final Thoughts

Ben Bozzay’s story is a great reminder that some of the best businesses start as personal problem-solving.

Tech Lockdown wasn't born from a grand business plan. It came from one person trying to create healthier internet habits, then sharing the process with others who needed the same thing. The business grew because Ben kept listening to demand.

Free content became paid content. Paid content became a product. The product became a SaaS. Now, it has grown into a $20K MRR business with a second app and more product development in the pipeline.

For anyone building online, Ben’s path shows the power of depth, focus, and patience. You don't need to serve every audience at once. You don't need to launch with the final product. You can start by solving a painful problem, documenting the process, and improving the offer as customers show you what they need next.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Tech Lockdown
• Check out Ben's LivingRoomApp

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The post How Ben Bozzay Turned a Personal Problem Into a $20K MRR SaaS Business  appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Brian Casel and I discuss how he’s building Builder Methods through YouTube, email, community, and AI agents. Brian brings about 20 years of experience as a designer, developer, founder, and operator, including a productized service he sold in 2020 and a SaaS he still runs today.

This conversation follows the story of how a young AI-focused business is being built from the ground up. It also shows why agents may feel more approachable for business owners who already create SOPs and repeatable processes.

Watch the Full Episode

Building From a 20-Year Founder Background

Brian’s current work builds on two decades of experience building online businesses. He started as a designer, moved into development, and later became a bootstrapped entrepreneur who learned marketing, sales, content, and operations along the way.

Before Builder Methods, he ran several different types of companies. One of the bigger milestones was Audience Ops, a productized content marketing service that operated from around 2015 until he sold it in 2020.

He also continues to run Clarityflow, a SaaS product he started in 2021. Clarityflow is built for coaches who use asynchronous video, audio, and text messaging with their clients.

That mix of experience gives Brian a broad lens. He has built software, sold services, taught online, created content, and worked with customers across different markets.

Shifting Focus After SaaS Growth Slowed

Brian didn't start Builder Methods because he was chasing a trend. Around 2024, he was working full-time on his SaaS business and saw the familiar pattern that many bootstrapped SaaS founders face.

The company was growing slowly and steadily, not at the kind of pace that creates a breakout story. That led him to look for a fresh direction where his skills and interests aligned. Several forces drove the change:

• SaaS growth was steady, not explosive
• Finding a new SaaS idea felt more competitive in 2024 and 2025
• AI changed Brian’s own building process within 12 to 18 months
• His background made him well-suited to teach business owners and builders
• YouTube started showing demand for the topic

This wasn't a clean pivot away from everything else. Brian still runs Clarityflow, but Builder Methods is the project that aligns with his current interests and opportunities.

Growing a YouTube Channel Around AI Building

YouTube is now the main way people find Brian’s work. He had been taking YouTube more seriously for about two years, posting weekly videos before AI became the channel's main focus.

Early videos covered topics such as Ruby on Rails and different products he was experimenting with. Then, in early to mid-2025, he started publishing more on AI, Claude Code, spec-driven development, and the shift in how he built software.

That change helped the channel take off. The AI building topic had growing demand, and Brian was documenting something he was already doing in his own work.

His YouTube process is far more detailed than it might look from the outside. Many of his videos run 15 to 20 minutes, yet one video can take multiple full-time days to produce. A typical video involves work across:

• Topic selection
• Timing
• Framing
• Script writing
• Recording
• Editing
• Title creation
• Thumbnail packaging
• Publishing

Brian said he's still refining the process. He is using AI across ideation, scripting, and internal systems, while still treating quality as a major part of the channel.

Learning From Large Videos and Smaller Wins

Brian has seen a wide range of results on YouTube. Some videos have performed very well, while others have brought in lower view counts but still help the business.

One OpenClaw video in March became a major breakout. Jared noted that Brian's videos reached just under one million views, which is especially notable given that this topic is more specialized than broad entertainment content.

Brian also mentioned several Claude Code videos reaching the 50,000 to 60,000 view range. At the lower end, some videos still land around 1,000 to 3,000 views in their first week or two.

The key insight is that viral reach helps, yet smaller videos can still attract highly engaged people. A video with fewer views may bring in someone who joins the newsletter, signs up for the membership, or tells another business owner about Brian’s work.

Moving Viewers Into Email

Brian uses YouTube as the top of the funnel, then moves people toward his newsletter and paid membership. He has tested different ways to make that transition. At one point, he promoted the newsletter within the first 30 seconds of nearly every video. More recently, he moved that mention closer to the middle or later part of the video.

That change came from a simple tradeoff. A viewer who just clicked a thumbnail may need to spend more time with the content before they're ready to take another step.

Once someone is on the email list, Brian keeps the system fairly simple. He sends a fresh newsletter about once per week, and new subscribers receive a short automated sequence. His email process includes:

• One new broadcast newsletter about once per week
• AI-assisted drafting
• Final edits from Brian
• A short drip sequence for new subscribers
• Mentions of free tools
• Light mentions of Builder Methods Pro

Brian used to make email automation more sophisticated. Right now, he prefers a simpler system that gives people free content and tools, then invites them into the membership when they're ready.

Selling Through a Simple Annual Membership

The main revenue channel for Builder Methods is Builder Methods Pro. It's an annual membership that includes training, a growing course library, and community access.

At the time of the interview, Brian said there were more than 100 videos inside the membership. Those videos are organized into several courses covering building with AI, using Claude Code, creating tools without prior development experience, and setting up agents.

The community also has hundreds of builders inside. Members share notes, ask questions, join sessions, and learn from each other as the space changes. Builder Methods Pro includes:

• Annual subscription access
• More than 100 training videos
• Several courses
• A community with hundreds of builders
• Live sessions with Brian
• Support around free tools and frameworks
• Training on agents, Claude Code, OpenClaw, Hermes, and related workflows

Brian said the membership is priced lower now than it will be later. He didn't share a specific price, so that should be left out unless pricing is pulled from a current public sales page.

Expanding Revenue Beyond Membership

Builder Methods Pro is the core offer, yet it's not the only revenue source. Here are Brian's revenue channels:

• Annual Builder Methods Pro membership
• Private workshops for teams
• Select brand partnerships on YouTube
• Low-ticket live workshops have been tested in the past
• Free newsletter feeding the paid offer

Refining the Customer Avatar

Brian has shifted the Builder Methods message over time. When he started, the offer spoke more directly to professional developers who needed to adapt to AI coding tools.

That audience still exists inside the community. Brian still works with developers, engineering teams, and technical people who want to improve how they build with AI.

In the past couple of months, he has moved the message more toward business owners and non-coders. He pointed out that many operators already have a systems mindset, even when they do not consider themselves technical.

That shift matters because agents are often less about writing code and more about describing repeatable work. A business owner who has created SOPs, hired people, or managed recurring tasks may already have many of the right instincts. Business owners may already know how to:

• Break work into steps
• Assign tasks
• Write processes
• Review outputs
• Train people
• Improve repeatable systems
• Spot bottlenecks

That makes agents less intimidating. Brian’s message is that people don't need to become traditional programmers to start building useful tools.

Using Agents Across the Business

Brian separates his use of AI into two main categories. One category helps him build software and tools, often through a direct working session with Claude Code.

The other category is agent-based work that runs on a schedule. These agents follow instructions, work through processes, and complete recurring tasks. He also described processes that may run hourly or daily, depending on the task. His agents help with:

• Reviewing feeds from other creators and industry sources
• Studying transcripts from his YouTube videos
• Reviewing podcast transcripts
• Analyzing what he has built in Claude Code
• Finding teachable ideas from his work
• Pitching video topics
• Developing scripts through multiple stages
• Working on titles and thumbnails
• Helping with monthly bookkeeping
• Reviewing GitHub pull requests
• Tracking customer feedback
• Summarizing common audience questions

This is one of the most useful parts of the interview because it shows agents as repeatable workers rather than one-off chat tools. Brian isn't only asking AI for ideas but also building processes that keep running.

Applying the Agent Mindset to Other Businesses

Brian was clear that his own examples often come from YouTube and software. Still, the same pattern can apply across many types of companies.

He mentioned a Builder Methods Pro member who runs a dental practice in California. That member is learning to build custom internal tools for case management, accounting, and bookkeeping.

Those examples show why this topic goes beyond software startups. AI agents and internal tools can help service businesses, local companies, creators, agencies, SaaS companies, and professional practices. Possible agent-style tasks include:

• Organizing support requests
• Categorizing expenses
• Reviewing customer feedback
• Preparing task lists
• Drafting reports
• Monitoring recurring issues
• Summarizing team updates
• Checking open tickets or requests

The common thread is process. When the work is repeatable, there may be a way to turn part of it into an agent-supported workflow.

Separating Free Content From Paid Training

Brian takes a different approach to YouTube and paid course content. YouTube videos are more produced, polished, and structured for viewer retention.

Inside Builder Methods Pro, the videos can go deeper and become more step-by-step. Since members have already paid, the goal is less about holding their attention and more about clearly teaching the workflow. This creates a healthy split between free and paid content:

• YouTube introduces topics and frameworks
• Free tools give people a reason to engage
• Email keeps the relationship active
• Builder Methods Pro offers depth and community
• Workshops help companies and teams with specific needs

Brian said there can be overlap between ideas on YouTube and inside the membership. The paid courses unpack those ideas in more detail, with projects and follow-along training.

Final Thoughts

Brian Casel’s Builder Methods story is a useful example of how a founder can build around a timely topic without relying only on hype. He has about 20 years of experience, a sold business behind him, a SaaS product still operating, and a new AI-focused company built through content and community.

What we can clearly see is the business model: YouTube creates reach, email builds relationships, free tools create trust, and an annual membership turns that attention into recurring revenue.

The most approachable lesson from Brian’s story is around agents. If someone has ever created an SOP, managed a team, trained an assistant, or built a repeatable process, they may already have more AI readiness than they think.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Builder Methods

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The post How Brian Casel Turned 20 Years of Startup Experience into Builder Methods With YouTube, Community, and AI Agents appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Brian Winum and I discuss advanced authority-building for Google, AI visibility, affiliate sites, and content systems that can scale without relying on large manual teams. Brian is a repeat guest, and his latest strategy builds on the authority stacking approach he shared two years ago.

This is a dense, high-level conversation for site owners, SEOs, and affiliate marketers who like technical systems. We cover WP multi-site networks, subdomain authority, LLMS.txt files, tiered link building, entity silos, EEAT, cryptographic trust layers, and the AI workflows Brian now uses to get more done with fewer people.

Watch the Full Episode

Brian’s Background and Current Focus

Brian is an agency owner based in Long Island, New York. He is a partner in MAXBURST Web Design and MAXPlaces Marketing, two businesses that have been around since the mid-2000s.

That gives him roughly 20 years of experience across web design, e-commerce, nationwide SEO campaigns, affiliate sites, and owned web properties. He also teaches courses and uses AI heavily in his current work.

His work today spans several areas:

• Agency client campaigns
• Affiliate site networks
• AI-assisted development
• Authority-based SEO systems
• Content and link automation

Brian’s current strategy isn't a clean break from what he shared on his first podcast appearance. It's an expanded version of the same authority-first system, with new layers added for AI platforms and modern indexing challenges.

His Authority Stack That Still Works

Two years ago, Brian talked through a system built around EEAT, authority stacking, and trust signals. At the time, his affiliate-style sites had survived the Helpful Content Update and several Google core updates that damaged many similar sites.

That older system included detailed author profiles, social signals, Google News approval, Reddit polls, expert input, and content that could attract engagement early. Brian says he still uses nearly every micro-strategy from that period. Several pieces remain part of his process:

• Deep author or brand profiles
• Social proof from outside platforms
• Original data from polls
• Expert quotes and commentary
• Authority signals across the web
• Content designed to attract early engagement

The biggest change isn't the foundation. It's the way Brian now packages those signals for Google, AI systems, and users who are closer to making a purchase decision.

The Monetization Shift Away From Display Ads

Brian’s revenue mix has changed since his last visit. Display ad income used to be a larger driver across many content sites, including some of his own properties.

Now, display ads sit lower in the mix. He's still earning from content, though the emphasis has moved toward more focused monetization. His current revenue stack leans toward:

• Guest post income
• Amazon-style affiliate revenue
• Product-focused affiliate offers
• Service-based affiliate offers
• Commercial pages with a tighter intent

This shift also changed his content strategy. Instead of publishing large volumes of broad informational posts, Brian is creating deeper assets aimed at middle-of-funnel and bottom-of-funnel traffic. That means fewer thin question-and-answer posts. It also means more content built around product research, comparisons, buyer needs, and authority signals that support trust.

WP Multi-Site Network Strategy

The biggest change in Brian’s system is his use of WP multi-site networks. He called this one of the main drivers of success in his current approach.

Instead of building a single website on a single domain for every project, Brian builds subdomain-based WordPress multisite networks. A single main domain can support hundreds of tightly focused subdomains. For example, a broad home services domain could include subdomains for:

• Kitchen services
• Backyard services
• Roofing services
• Patio furniture
• Outdoor grills
• Cordless power tools

Brian said he can run 700-800 subdomains on a single domain. This gives him a way to test many niches without buying a large number of separate domains. Each subdomain can focus on a narrow topic. At the same time, the whole network can benefit as individual subdomains gain traction.

The Indexing Advantage of Subdomains

Indexing has become a major problem for many site owners. Brian says his subdomain-based WP multisite setup has helped him overcome that issue. He shared an example from PressClone, one of his press-release-style networks. According to Brian, the network had around 100 unique press releases, while Google had indexed roughly 5,000 to 7,000 pages from it.

That means syndicated or duplicate content across subdomains was still getting indexed at scale. Brian’s read on this is that Google appears to treat the subdomains with enough separation to give them individual value.

The workflow also saves time. Brian said he can clone a site to a new subdomain in less than 30 seconds, then make keyword swaps and have a new property running within minutes. That speed matters because it allows him to test markets quickly. If one topic performs better than another, he can lean into it without rebuilding the whole system.

What Is the Role of LLMS.txt Files

A major part of the interview focused on LLMS.txt files. Brian knows many people in SEO are skeptical of them since they aren't a formally accepted standard like robots.txt. His point is that a basic LLMS.txt file is unlikely to do much. He compares it to a generic plugin schema, where the default output is rarely sufficient to produce a measurable result.

Brian’s files go much deeper. He uses custom header and footer content to explain the brand, services, audience, authority signals, and external evidence behind the site. His LLMS.txt setup can include:

• Brand summaries
• Product and service details
• Ideal customer profiles
• Citation sources
• Awards and mentions
• Google review summaries
• Important backlinks
• Supplemental AI files

He also builds subdirectory-level files for sections such as services or products. That gives each major part of the site its own focused data layer.

The Crawl Path System Behind the Files

Brian doesn't simply publish LLMS.txt files and hope AI bots find them. He creates crawl paths that direct bots to the files from several locations across the site.

He mentioned robots.txt, header meta tag injection, XML sitemaps, internal file links, and supplemental markdown or JSON files. The goal is to make the AI-facing authority stack easy to find. The supplemental file stack may include:

• Review profile files
• Brand snapshot files
• Citation files
• Backlink files
• Service files
• Product files

Brian said he has seen traffic hitting these files in server logs. He also reported increases in AI referrals and mentions after adopting this setup. The larger idea is simple, even though the execution is complex. Brian wants AI systems to receive the same brand and authority signals he has already built for search engines.

Tiered Link and Entity Silo Model

Brian’s link building has also become more structured. He now talks about building entity silos through tiered links.

The money site contains the main content, schema, LLMS.txt setup, and core authority signals. Then tier-one links support the site through interviews, listicles, guest posts, press mentions, and other third-party articles.

After that, tier-two links support the tier-one links. One example he gave was publishing a press release about a third-party interview, then syndicating it across hundreds of subdomains. The structure might look like this:

• Money page with deep topical content
• Tier-one interview or feature article
• Tier-two press release about that feature
• Schema added to supporting pages
• Entity references are repeated across the chain

Brian’s goal is to remove ambiguity. The content, schema, LLMS.txt files, and links all reinforce the same person, brand, product, or service entity.

Updated EEAT Focus

EEAT has been central to Brian’s approach for years. Brian's early experience with Google News approval gave him a close look at the types of signals Google wanted from trusted publishers.

He still thinks trust and authority signals matter. The difference is that he's now placing more emphasis on genuine people, original content, and visible proof.

Brian said he doesn't rely as much on fake author personas as he did in the past. They can still work in some cases, though he sees greater value in using people with a public history and third-party validation. His current EEAT stack includes:

• Original reporting
• Expert commentary
• Real people behind content
• Third-party mentions
• Awards and citations
• Clear authorship
• Brand consistency

He's also going deeper at the page level. Instead of broad surface-level content, he wants each important page to show experience, expertise, and a clear reason to trust the source.

The Cryptographic Trust Layer

One of the most technical parts of the conversation was Brian’s discussion of cryptographic trust layers. This is his way of claiming authorship and creating timestamped proof around published content.

Brian wants a clear record of who published a piece of content and when it appeared online. That matters more as AI-generated content becomes more common across the web. His process includes several signals:

• DMCA badge timestamping
• Internet Archive submission
• Wayback Machine archive links
• Archive schema markup
• Blockchain-based certificates

Brian mentioned ScoreDetect as one of the tools he uses for blockchain certificates. He said the service is around $10 per month for 100 certificates. The purpose is both protection and trust. By timestamping content and tying it back to an author or brand, Brian is creating another layer of proof around originality.

His AI Workflow Behind the Operation

Brian used to need more manual help to run these systems. Today, AI and automation have replaced much of the work once handled by VAs or employees.

He shared one striking example of the scale these systems once required. One of his contacts previously ran a network of about 14,000 websites and later exited for $29 million. 

Additionally, Brian shared custom skills, cron jobs, overnight workflows, and AI tools for researching, creating, publishing, and reporting. This allows him to manage larger systems with fewer people involved. Some of the tasks now handled through AI include:

• Guest post inquiry replies
• Price list delivery
• Form collection
• Payment flow handling
• Content creation
• Link delivery
• Site research
• Morning status reports

One example was his guest post sales process. An inquiry comes in, AI sends the pricing, the buyer fills out a form, payment is made, content is created, and the approval link is sent without Brian manually managing the exchange.

The AI-Generated Consensus Strategy

Brian also shared an unusual AI use case around brand discussion. He has been building Reddit-style sites that create threaded discussions around a product, service, or brand.

These aren't Reddit. They are his own discussion platforms, filled with AI-generated topics and replies. The discussions can cover:

• Product pros
• Product cons
• Brand comparisons
• Service questions
• Interview references
• Use case debates

The aim is to create more discussion around an entity. Brian wants those discussions to add context and support the wider authority system he is building across content, links, files, and schema.

Final Thoughts

This episode with Brian Winum is one of the more advanced SEO conversations we have had on the podcast. It moves quickly, and several sections could easily become full episodes on their own.

The central takeaway is that Brian isn't relying on one tactic. His system combines authority stacking, subdomain networks, AI-facing files, tiered links, entity signals, authorship proof, and automation. The full system includes:

• WP multi-site subdomain networks
• Deeper commercial content
• LLMS.txt files and supplemental AI files
• Tiered link building
• Entity silos
• EEAT signals
• Timestamped authorship
• AI-powered operations

Some listeners may be skeptical of parts of the system, and Brian says he expects that. His view is that the results are coming from the full stack, not from any single file, link, or plugin.

For site owners, affiliate marketers, and SEOs, this conversation is worth revisiting more than once. The ideas around subdomains, LLMS.txt files, entity silos, and AI-assisted operations offer a detailed look at where advanced authority building may be heading.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Brian

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The post How Brian Winum Uses WP Multi-Site Networks to Scale 700+ Subdomains appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Nina Clapperton and I discuss how content businesses can still grow after HCU, AI Overviews, and the decline of traffic-first blogging. Nina shares how she has continued building revenue through community, email, affiliate offers, products, and a more intentional approach to content.

Nina is the founder of She Knows SEO, and longtime listeners may remember her previous appearance on the podcast back in 2022. Since then, she has had multiple $100,000 months, reached a $150,000 month, and continued earning from sites even as the broader content industry has changed dramatically. 

Watch the Full Episode

Reframing the Post-HCU Content Business

Nina made it clear that HCU didn't hit her in the way many publishers were. Her main travel site continued to perform well after the update, which she attributes largely to firsthand experience and content aligned with her expertise.

She did, however, see problems on a pet site where nearly all the content had been written by others. The only two posts that held up were the ones she had written herself, which gave her useful data points on content quality and direct experience.

She also shared a separate case where one of her travel sites dropped from around 180,000 pageviews to roughly 40,000 to 50,000 pageviews after she bought spammy backlinks as a test. That drop didn't line up with a public update, so her takeaway was that the backlinks likely played a role.

Some key numbers from Nina’s business:

• Her first travel blog reached 50,000 sessions in six months.
• She had her first $30,000 a month shortly after her first podcast appearance.
• She has had at least one $100,000 month each year for the last three years.
• Last year, she hit her first $150,000 a month.
• One old travel blog still earns about $5,000 per month from affiliate sales.

The bigger point isn't that everyone can copy her exact setup. It's that her business didn't depend on a single traffic source, a single site, or a single ad network.

Shifting From Traffic to Customer Journey

One of the most interesting parts of the interview was Nina’s view on KPIs. She isn't chasing pageviews in the same way many bloggers do.

For her, pageviews alone aren't the goal because they don't automatically translate into income. She looks more closely at how people move through her content, whether they return, and whether they eventually join her community, email list, or customer base.

She mentioned metrics such as:

• Pages per session
• Returning users
• Lifetime value of audience members
• Email subscribers
• Affiliate clicks
• Product sales

That shift matters because a traffic-first model naturally pushes creators toward ad revenue. Nina sees that as limiting, since ad RPMs often don't match the value of a well-served visitor who may buy a product, join a program, or use an affiliate link.

Her phrase was simple: pageviews do not pay the bills, money does.

Building Content Around Revenue Paths

Nina described her SEO sales funnel strategy as the core of how she thinks about content today. Each post should have a purpose, and every major content cluster should lead somewhere.

That “somewhere” could be a product, an affiliate offer, a freebie, an email signup, or a deeper piece of content. The key is that visitors aren't left at a dead end.

For example, she talked about creating a content cluster around internal linking. Rather than writing one article and calling it done, she maps out the full conversation someone might have as they learn the topic. That sequence may include:

• What internal linking means
• Why internal links matter
• How to use nofollow and dofollow links
• When to add links
• Which tools help
• How to set up LinkWhisper
• How to use the tool for affiliate income

This structure does more than help with SEO. It builds trust by showing people she uses the tools she recommends and can help them after they click.

Planning Content Before Publishing

Nina does most of her planning before she writes. She wants to know where the content is going, what offer it supports, and how the internal links should guide the visitor.

She said a silo should usually have at least 20 posts, while a topic cluster should have at least 10. Those numbers aren't meant to be universal rules, though they show how much thought she puts into the structure before publishing.

Her planning process includes:

• Choosing the main offer
• Mapping the related topic
• Listing the questions people ask
• Planning internal links
• Writing with the end point in mind
• Checking SERPs for missing angles

She also said every post should end with a suggestion for the next step. Her conclusions aren't just summaries; they are bridges to the next piece of the journey.

This is a big difference from the older model, where bloggers might publish a post, add ads, insert a few affiliate links, and move on.

Selling Without Hiding the Offer

A major theme from the interview was that many creators say they are selling, yet their offers are nearly impossible to find. Nina gave the example of a student whose course was barely visible on her website. There was no shop page, no clear menu link, and almost no obvious path for visitors to buy.

That is a common issue for bloggers who have spent years writing informational content. They may have products or affiliate offers, yet the site structure still behaves like a free resource library rather than a business.

Nina’s advice was to be much more intentional:

• Put offers where people can find them.
• Mention them more than once.
• Add value before asking for a sale.
• Use content to answer objections.
• Test placements and calls to action.
• Give visitors several ways to trust you first.

She also stressed that selling takes repetition. People may need to see an offer multiple times before buying, especially when trust in online shopping is low.

Testing Offers and Placements

Nina is a big believer in testing. She talked about using similar posts to compare affiliate link placement, images, headings, and calls to action.

This type of testing helped her learn what works for her audience. Over time, those experiments gave her better instincts about which offers fit which content. Her testing approach includes:

• Comparing similar posts
• Using UTM tracking
• Watching conversions
• Testing one to three changes at a time
• Letting experiments run for one to three months
• Treating failed tests as data

That last point is important. Nina doesn't seem to view a failed experiment as wasted effort, especially when it gives her more information about her audience. She even framed the backlink test that hurt one site as a data point. Painful, yes, yet still useful for future decision-making.

Creating for a Specific Person

Another theme was audience clarity. Nina doesn't define her audience by broad demographics such as “women aged 25 to 45.”

Instead, she thinks of one very specific person. She knows what that person wants, what they struggle with, and what kind of help they need next. That approach shapes:

• Topic selection
• Product creation
• Email content
• Sales copy
• Facebook group posts
• YouTube ideas

This also explains why community is so central to her strategy. By talking to people regularly, she gets a constant stream of questions, objections, and content ideas. Her rule is simple: when the same question comes up more than three times, it often becomes a blog post.

Expanding Beyond the Blog

Nina’s current content system goes far beyond traditional blogging. She uses TikTok, YouTube, Facebook groups, email, blog posts, podcasts, and communities in different ways.

What stood out is that she doesn't treat the blog as the only entry point. In one newer project, discovery started on TikTok, moved to a Facebook group, and then led people to email and deeper content.

She said one TikTok account quickly reached 500,000 views, while the related Facebook group grew to nearly 30,000 people before she had even started posting heavily there. That group also drove thousands of email subscribers. Her platform mix includes:

• TikTok for discovery
• Facebook groups for conversation
• Email for relationship building
• YouTube for deeper teaching
• Blog content for searchable answers
• Podcasts for audio learners

The blog still matters in her system. She treats written content as a searchable directory she can point people to again and again.

Using AI to Make Space for Human Work

Nina has used AI since 2021, long before it became common in the blogging world. Today, she uses AI heavily for formatting, repurposing, automation, and agent-based workflows.

What makes her approach interesting is that she doesn't use AI to remove her personality. She uses it to reduce the work that drains her energy, which gives her more room to add stories, case studies, examples, and community interaction. She mentioned using AI for:

• Formatting content
• Repurposing old videos
• Creating social content
• Organizing workflows
• Supporting assistants
• Running internal systems

Given her health constraints, this is a major part of how she continues to run a sizable business while working only about five to 10 hours per week. She also said she never wanted to become a manager of a huge team. AI helps her remain more of a creator, which is the role she enjoys most.

Focusing on Brand and Community

Nina’s view is that nameless, faceless brands will have a harder time going forward. People want to trust a person, not just a site full of optimized articles.

That is why she spends time in her Facebook group, goes on podcasts, builds freebies, teaches publicly, and creates content in multiple formats. All of those touchpoints help people associate her name with SEO, AI, blogging, and content strategy.

Community also gives her resilience. When Google changes, she still has email subscribers, Facebook group members, students, customers, YouTube viewers, and people who search for her brand directly. Her brand-building advice can be summed up this way:

• Let people see your expertise.
• Show up in more than one place.
• Build trust before the sale.
• Create offers that help.
• Keep listening to audience questions.
• Make your site easy to buy from.

This is the part of the interview that matters most for publishers struggling after HCU. Content still has value, yet it works better when it supports a broader business.

Final Thoughts

This episode with Nina Clapperton was a reminder that the content business isn't dead. The old traffic-first model is weaker than it used to be, yet content can still drive serious revenue when it is connected to community, email, products, and affiliate strategy.

Nina’s story shows the value of building a brand people remember. She isn't relying on a single post, keyword, or platform to carry the business. The big lesson is to stop treating content as the final product. Treat it as the path that brings people into your world, helps them solve problems, and points them toward the next useful step.

For bloggers and niche site owners, the shift may feel uncomfortable. Yet Nina’s results suggest there's still plenty of opportunity for creators willing to rethink their KPIs, talk to their audience, and build revenue paths that go beyond ads.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about She Knows SEO
• Get Nina's Free SEO Content Audit Checklist
• Subscribe to @sheknowsseo's YouTube channel
• Join the SEO for Bloggers' Facebook community
• Follow Nina on Instagram
• Follow Nina on Threads
• Check out She Knows SEO on Facebook
• Connect with Nina

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The post How Nina Clapperton Built a Content Business With $100K Months After HCU appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Taegan Goddard and I discuss how Political Wire built a paid subscription model around a highly engaged political audience. We talk about why subscriptions can make publishing revenue more predictable than relying solely on programmatic ads.

Taegan shares how he packages member-only analysis, no-ad browsing, a private podcast, newsletters, games, and community features into a paid bundle. He also explains pricing lessons, churn reduction, and why many publishers may be charging less than their most loyal audience is willing to pay.

Watch the Full Episode

How Political Wire Grew From a Daily Briefing Idea

Political Wire began with a simple editorial concept. Taegan wanted to create a daily political briefing inspired by the Wall Street Journal’s old Washington Wire column.

That column collected interesting political notes from the Journal’s Washington bureau. Taegan took that same idea and adapted it for the web. Political Wire now pulls from many sources:

• Newspapers
• Websites
• Social media
• Local political reporting
• National media
• Interesting stories from across the political spectrum

The key is editorial judgment. Taegan doesn't try to publish everything. He posts what he finds interesting, timely, and useful for political junkies. That has created a habit-driven site. People return not just once per day, sometimes five, six, seven, or eight times per day.

Taegan said he publishes around 30 to 50 posts per day. That includes weekdays, weekends, vacations, and election season surges. That frequency helps explain why many Political Wire visitors return five, six, seven, or even eight times per day. 

This isn't a casual publishing schedule. Political Wire works because the site is constantly refreshed, and the audience expects that rhythm.

Election Cycles Create New Loyal Visitors

Political Wire has a traffic pattern tied to elections. The site typically gets 4 to 5 million monthly visitors, and that traffic can double or more during major election cycles. Interest begins to rise around June or July before a major election, then spikes in September and October.

That spike creates discovery. New visitors arrive during the election frenzy, and some stay after the cycle ends. This pattern has repeated across multiple two-year cycles. 

Taegan has seen it often enough to plan around it. The site benefits from two types of political interest:

• Seasonal interest during elections
• Year-round interest from political junkies
• Repeat visits from people who want constant updates
• New audience discovery during high-attention news periods

The free site plays an important role in this cycle. It lets new visitors sample the editorial product without paying first. From there, Political Wire introduces the subscription offer. That paid offer has become the core of the business.

Subscriptions Smooth Out Revenue Volatility

Taegan is clear that programmatic ads can be a good business. Political Wire still uses ads on the free site, and he has had a positive experience with Mediavine. However, the issue is predictability. Ad revenue depends on traffic, ad rates, seasonality, platform shifts, and broader market conditions.

Subscription revenue behaves differently. With enough members and low churn, Taegan can estimate revenue before a month starts. That changes how a publisher can plan. Instead of relying only on pageviews and RPMs, subscriptions create a steadier base. A paid model can help with:

• Planning expenses
• Funding new features
• Reducing dependence on ad markets
• Serving loyal fans more directly
• Creating a more stable business

This is especially relevant for content site owners who have seen search traffic swing, social traffic change, or ad income vary month to month. Taegan’s point isn't that every site should remove ads. His model uses both. The free site brings reach, while the paid offer brings steadier revenue.

How Bundling Became the Main Strategy

Taegan uses bundling and unbundling to explain both the origin of Political Wire and its current subscription model. Political Wire began by unbundling political coverage from newspapers. Instead of making people scan every local and national outlet, Taegan collected the most interesting political stories in one place.

Then he rebundled that value inside Political Wire. Later, he used the same logic to build the paid membership. Taegan used several outside examples to make the point:

• McDonald’s value meals
• Cable television
• Streaming services
• The New York Times
• The Athletic, Wirecutter, games, and cooking as part of the Times bundle

The core idea is simple. A bundle can make a subscription harder to cancel because different people value different pieces. One member may love the ad-free site. Another may care most about Taegan’s analysis. Another may stick around for the private podcast or weekly quiz.

That variety reduces churn. The membership is no longer a single product with a single reason to cancel. It becomes a collection of reasons to stay.

How Political Wire Built Its Paid Bundle

Political Wire’s paid product didn't remain a single feature. It evolved into a package of benefits for the most engaged audience members.

The original paid offer centered on Taegan’s own political analysis. He had previously written analysis for publications such as The Week and The Daily Beast, then decided to publish that work for Political Wire members instead. 

That paid membership model has now been running for more than a decade, giving Taegan years of data on what members value and what keeps them subscribed. From there, Taegan added more value over time. Current member benefits include:

• Exclusive political analysis from Taegan
• No ads while logged in
• A faster and cleaner site experience
• A trending news page updated around the clock
• A private podcast called Trial Balloon
• A political calendar
• Bonus newsletters
• A weekly news quiz
• Member-only community features
• Early access to new products and games in higher tiers

The no-ad experience became especially popular. For frequent visitors, a cleaner and faster site has daily value. Meanwhile, the private podcast also matters because it becomes part of a weekly routine. Trial Balloon comes out on Friday mornings, giving members another touchpoint beyond the website.

Lastly, the weekly quiz gives people a reason to come back at the end of the week. It turns political knowledge into a repeatable habit.

How Pricing Taught Taegan a Key Lesson

Taegan said his biggest mistake was pricing the membership too low. Across thousands of members and several price increases, Taegan says he has received only one complaint about raising prices.

Political Wire’s standard annual membership is $80. The monthly option is $8, totaling $96 per year. That makes the annual plan about 17% cheaper than the monthly plan. 

Taegan prefers annual subscribers because churn is lower and payment reminders occur less often. The pricing structure includes:

• $8 per month for monthly access
• $80 per year for the annual membership
• $120 per year for the friends and family plan
• $40 per additional member under that plan
• $160 per year for the Inner Circle tier

The friends-and-family plan is especially smart. When someone adds another person to the account, cancellation becomes a shared decision. That creates more staying power. A member may hesitate to cancel when a spouse, parent, sibling, friend, or child also uses the access.

The Inner Circle tier adds more direct benefits, such as breaking news text alerts, off-the-record video briefings, first access to features, and additional account access.

Taegan also shared a striking data point. Across thousands of members and multiple price increases, he has received only one complaint about raising prices. That tells him two things. His audience sees value in the product, and the membership may still be underpriced.

Free Site Converts Visitors Into Members

Political Wire doesn't hide the membership offer. On the free site, a banner near the top tells visitors that members get the full experience. The pitch highlights the main benefits:

• Exclusive analysis
• Trending news
• A private podcast
• No ads

That message turns the free site into a top-of-funnel channel. Visitors can read the free content, see the value, and then decide whether they want the better version. Taegan also experiments with placement and messaging. He noted that people can develop banner blindness, so the offer sometimes needs new framing.

One interesting detail from the interview is that he uses AI tools to critique the site. He has uploaded screenshots of Political Wire to ChatGPT and Claude, then asked for conversion ideas.

He treats those tools like low-cost consultants. Not every suggestion gets used, yet the process helps him see the site with fresh eyes. That kind of testing fits well with digital publishing. A publisher can change a banner, offer, message, or layout, then watch how signups respond.

Churn Shapes the Product

Churn is a major challenge in any subscription business. Taegan has worked to keep Political Wire’s churn low by making the membership feel hard to give up. The bundle plays a big role. Each feature gives a member another reason to renew.

He also surveys members and pays attention to what they value most. The most popular benefit remains his personal analysis, which confirms that the paid offer is built around his strongest asset.

When people cancel, he tries to learn why. A cancellation reason can point to a pricing issue, a product gap, a technical frustration, or simple life circumstances. His response system includes:

• Asking the canceled members why they left
• Offering discounts to long-term members who may be cutting costs
• Following up when technical issues cause frustration
• Using member feedback to improve the offer
• Watching churn patterns during political news cycles

He also mentioned that political mood can affect churn. When news feels depressing to one side of the political spectrum, some people may pull back from political content for a while. That is a reminder that paid content businesses are tied to human behavior, not just dashboards.

Personal Connection Supports the Business

Political Wire has Taegan’s name on it, and that matters. Members are paying for his judgment, his analysis, and his constant attention to politics. That creates a different set of expectations than a purely ad-supported site. When someone pays, they expect a higher level of service and connection.

Taegan embraces that. He responds to members, handles some support personally, and tries to keep the experience personal even as the site serves a large audience. That connection matters because trust is part of the product. Political Wire isn't just a feed of links. It's a curated political briefing shaped by a person the audience has followed for years.

This is where the workload becomes important. Subscriptions aren't free money. Taegan has been working at Political Wire full-time for 18 years. He is deeply involved every day, and the site works because he enjoys the work enough to keep showing up.

How Publishers Can Apply the Bigger Lesson

The main lesson from this episode isn't that every site needs the same bundle as Political Wire. The lesson is that loyal attention can often support more than ads. A content site owner might ask:

• What does the most loyal segment want more of?
• What could be offered ad-free?
• What expertise could sit behind a membership?
• What recurring feature could become part of a routine?
• What bonus products could be licensed or partnered into the offer?
• What price would reflect the value, not just the publisher’s hesitation?

The paid offer doesn't need to replace the free site. Political Wire shows how the two can work together. The free site creates discovery, reach, and ad revenue. The paid bundle creates predictability, deeper loyalty, and a closer connection with the most committed audience members.

That combination is the opportunity. Instead of choosing ads or subscriptions, publishers can use each model for what it does best.

Final Thoughts

Taegan Goddard’s Political Wire is a useful example because it comes from a publisher with scale, history, and direct experience across many media shifts. He has seen ad markets change, election cycles rise and fall, and audience habits evolve over more than two decades.

The biggest takeaway is that subscription revenue can reduce the stress of relying solely on traffic and ad rates. A thoughtful bundle gives members more reasons to join, more reasons to stay, and more value than a single paid article or feature could provide.

For site owners wondering whether a paid product could work, the question may not be whether every visitor will pay. The better question is whether the most loyal portion of the audience already values the work enough to support a richer experience.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Political Wire

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The post How Taegan Goddard Turned Political Wire’s 4 to 5 Million Monthly Visitors Into a Subscription Opportunity appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Rob Walling and I discuss how SaaS founders can build, grow, and sell software businesses that create more freedom. Rob brings 25 years of SaaS experience, including lessons from building and selling companies, mentoring founders, and investing in 239 SaaS businesses.

This conversation is geared toward solo operators and bootstrapped founders who want clear ways to improve pricing, reduce churn, and find better customers. Get ready to create a business that can one day run with less founder involvement.

Watch the Full Episode

Building A SaaS Career From Small Products

Rob’s story didn't begin with a venture-backed startup or a huge software launch. He started as a construction worker and electrician, following the path his dad and brother had taken. That path didn't feel right for him for long. 

Since he had learned to code as a kid on an Apple IIe, he began going to the library at night and on weekends to learn modern programming languages. From there, Rob got a job as a developer. He enjoyed the work at first, then realized he didn't want to spend his career working on someone else’s agenda.

That led him to build products on nights and weekends. Many of those early products went nowhere, which was common in the early 2000s, when customer development and lean startup thinking were not yet common practices. Over time, Rob pieced together several small products.

• Most were software products
• Some were eBooks
• One was a course
• He also wrote books for founders, including Start Small, Stay Small
• Around 2008, those projects reached about $150,000 per year in revenue

That income was enough for him to live comfortably in the United States at the time. Even more interesting, he said he was working around 12 hours per week, close to the kind of lifestyle many online business owners hope to build.

Then he got bored. That pushed him toward acquiring a SaaS, building more software, selling companies, and eventually moving into mentoring, advising, and investing.

The Funding Gap TinySeed Was Built To Solve

A large part of the conversation focused on TinySeed, the accelerator Rob co-founded. TinySeed sits between pure bootstrapping and traditional venture capital. He said he has started six companies, and five of them were bootstrapped. 

TinySeed is the only company he has raised money for, having raised $59 million from outside investors. Rob explained that venture capital isn't built for most SaaS companies. In the VC model, a company often needs to aim for a billion-dollar outcome, or even a $10 billion outcome, to make sense for the fund.

That creates a mismatch for many founders. A $20 million or $30 million exit can be life-changing for a founder, yet still too small for many venture investors. Rob frames the funding decision this way:

• About 1% of startups should raise traditional venture capital
• About 9% could consider angel money, friends and family funding, or TinySeed-style funding
• About 90% should bootstrap

That idea is a useful filter for founders who feel pressure to raise money. Raising capital isn't, in itself, a badge of honor. For many SaaS operators, the better question is simple: what kind of business do you want to build, and what kind of life do you want it to support?

Why Smaller SaaS Exits Can Still Be Life-Changing

TinySeed backs companies that don't need to become unicorns. Rob’s point is that a great outcome for a founder need not align with a venture fund's expectations.

He shared an example of a mostly bootstrapped two-founder company that exited for $20 million. Since TinySeed owned about 10%, it earned $2 million from the sale, while the founders walked away with about $18 million.

That kind of outcome can change a founder’s life without requiring a billion-dollar valuation. For many bootstrapped SaaS founders, this is the more realistic and attractive target: a focused business, meaningful revenue, and an exit that creates financial freedom.

How Investors Judge A SaaS Business

When TinySeed reviews a SaaS company, Rob said they begin with the numbers. Since TinySeed focuses only on B2B SaaS, they can compare companies through a very specific lens.

The first question is whether the founder has built a product that delivers value to customers. Rob framed it simply: Have you built a product for real customers who will pay real money? From there, three metrics stand out:

• Growth over the last six months
• Churn, especially revenue churn
• Average revenue per account

Growth matters because momentum is hard to fake. A company stuck at $1,000 or $50,000 in monthly recurring revenue may face a difficult plateau.

Churn matters because SaaS revenue leaks when customers leave. Rob called churn the death of SaaS, a blunt way to describe how damaging it can be.

Average revenue per account also tells an important story. A company charging $30 or $40 per month may need a very different support, marketing, and retention model than one charging $300, $500, or $1,000 per month.

Rob made room for nuance here. A solo founder who wants to reach $10,000 per month in recurring revenue may do fine with lower price points. A founder aiming for $10 million in annual recurring revenue needs a different structure.

Why Low Pricing Holds Founders Back 

The biggest mistake Rob sees in SaaS is pricing too low. He said this mistake shows up far more often than anything else.

Rob explained that makers often undervalue what they create. Since they can build software themselves, they may focus on how long it took to develop rather than the value it provides to customers.

That is the wrong pricing lens. Customers don't pay based on how many hours the founder spent writing code. They pay for outcomes such as:

• Saving time
• Reducing manual work
• Making more sales
• Avoiding costly mistakes
• Organizing a painful workflow
• Serving their own customers better

Rob gave the example of Senior Place, a TinySeed company that sells CRM software for senior placement agents. The product serves a very specific customer base, and the value is high enough to support pricing in the hundreds of dollars per month.

That type of pricing may feel uncomfortable to a founder at first. Yet if the software sits inside a valuable business process, higher pricing can lead to better customers, better support economics, and lower churn.

How Focused Markets Help SaaS Companies Grow

Rob also talked about the difference between horizontal, vertical, and what he calls orthogonal SaaS. Many types of companies can use a horizontal product. Calendly-style scheduling software is one example, since almost any business can use a scheduling link.

A vertical product focuses on one industry. A CRM for jewelers or senior placement agents would fall into this category. Rob’s third category is orthogonal SaaS. This describes a product that may serve many industries but targets a specific job title or department.

For example, applicant tracking software can be used across many industries. The buyer is often someone in HR or people operations, which creates a clear target even if the company types vary. TinySeed has seen a clear pattern across its portfolio:

• Vertical SaaS companies often perform well
• Orthogonal SaaS companies often perform similarly
• Fully horizontal SaaS companies have lagged in many cases
• Focus can make positioning and marketing much easier

However, this doesn't mean every founder must pick a tiny niche. Rob was careful not to make that claim. The larger lesson is that clear targeting helps. When a founder knows exactly who the buyer is, the marketing message becomes sharper, the product can address a more specific pain point, and pricing is often easier to defend.

Founder Traits That Shape SaaS Outcomes

Rob thinks about SaaS success as a mix of founder, market, product, and luck. Luck always exists, yet it isn't something founders can control or count on. The founder piece matters because even a good market and useful product can stall under slow or unclear execution. 

Rob has seen founders with promising companies still trip over their own decision-making. The best founders he sees tend to share a few traits:

• They try many things quickly
• They are right often enough
• They learn from failed experiments
• They take responsibility instead of making excuses
• They can hear hard feedback without getting defensive

Rob gave an example of a founder who discussed several marketing approaches with him, picked two, and had both running within three weeks. One worked, and one did not, so the founder moved on with new information.

That speed matters. Another founder might take six months to launch the first test, waiting on perfect copy, design, contractors, or setup. Rob doesn't expect founders to be right every time. He said being right 60% of the time may be enough when a founder tests quickly and keeps learning.

This is where self-awareness becomes very important. When a founder says a marketing channel “doesn’t work anymore”, Rob often sees a different issue: the channel may work, yet the founder may not have executed it well enough.

SaaS Marketing Beyond Social Media 

Marketing was one of the strongest parts of the conversation. Rob pushed back on the idea that building a great product is enough. He also challenged the idea that building an audience on social media is a complete SaaS marketing strategy. 

A large audience may help in the early stages, yet many founders still plateau around $5,000, $10,000, or $15,000 in monthly recurring revenue. Rob’s advice is to build a network, not just an audience. More importantly, founders need to learn real acquisition channels that match their customers.

His main SaaS marketing channels include:

• SEO through Google, YouTube, app stores, or other search platforms
• Pay-per-click ads through Google, Capterra, Meta, or other platforms
• Cold or warm outreach through email and LinkedIn
• Content marketing through articles, videos, podcasts, or community channels
• Partnerships and integrations with complementary products

Partnerships And Integrations Can Extend Reach 

Integrations can be especially useful for SaaS companies. If two products serve the same customer base, each company can promote the other, and the integration itself can create long-term value.

Rob used this strategy with Drip. He said they built around 35 integrations in 18 months, and each one created opportunities for cross-promotion. He also mentioned other channels such as podcast tours, YouTube tours, and in-person events. 

These can work especially well when customer lifetime value is high enough to support the cost. The deeper lesson is that founders need to treat marketing like part of the business, not a side task. Product work may feel more comfortable, yet growth usually requires founders to get good at things that do not feel natural at first.

How SaaS Exits Usually Work

Rob explained that SaaS exits often fall into two broad buckets based on size and growth. Smaller SaaS businesses, often with annual recurring revenue of roughly $1.5 million to $2 million, may sell based on profit. Buyers often look at net profit, EBITDA, or the seller's discretionary earnings.

Larger SaaS companies, especially those with annual recurring revenue above roughly $2 million, may attract different buyers. These buyers may include private equity groups or strategic acquirers, and deals may be based on revenue multiples. Rob shared a rough sense of the range:

• Smaller SaaS businesses may sell for 4x to 7x annual profit
• Faster-growing companies above $2 million ARR may sell for 5x to 7x revenue
• A fast-growing vertical SaaS company can sometimes command far more
• Flat or slow-growth SaaS companies may sell for much lower revenue multiples

How Founder Involvement Affects The Deal 

Founder involvement is another major factor. If the founder is deeply embedded in the company, a buyer may require them to stay after the sale.

Rob has seen both sides personally. With one company, he completed a handoff and provided limited advice. With Drip, the buyer wanted him and his co-founder to stay, and he remained with the company after the acquisition.

The larger the deal, the more likely the buyer is to want continuity. A founder may need to stay for one, two, or even three years if they are central to product, engineering, sales, or customer relationships.

That doesn't mean a founder cannot sell a company that depends on them. It means the terms may include a transition period, and the founder should expect that conversation before going to market.

Final Thoughts

Rob’s advice comes back to one main idea: a SaaS business grows when the founder treats it like a complete company, not just a product. Pricing, churn, marketing, focus, founder speed, and exit planning all shape the outcome.

A few takeaways worth acting on:

• Raise prices when the value supports it
• Watch churn before it becomes a growth ceiling
• Choose a clear buyer or market
• Test marketing channels faster
• Reduce founder dependence over time

For SaaS founders who want more freedom, this episode is a reminder that small changes can compound into a much stronger business. Find the next move that could make your SaaS more profitable, sellable, and easier to run.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Rob
• Check out TinySeed
• Join the MicroConf community

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The post How Rob Walling Says Fast-Growing SaaS Companies Can Sell for 5x to 7x Revenue appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Tim Stoddart and I discuss what happens after selling a business and how he thinks about directories today. Tim also shares why the best online opportunities often come from combining media, services, and lead generation.

Tim has a way of making business feel less abstract. It starts with the sale of Stodzy, moves into what Tim is building now, and then lands on one of his favorite topics: directories. Learn the things that helped make Tim’s agency sellable, why he is now focused on Quantum Leads and healthcare AI, and how directories can become part of a bigger lead-generation system. 

Watch the Full Episode

The Story Behind Tim’s Stodzy Exit 

One of the most useful parts of the conversation centers on Tim’s exit from Stodzy, the marketing agency he built and later sold. Selling an agency isn't as simple as finding a buyer and signing papers. Tim explained that a business needs to be structured in a way that gives a buyer confidence.

Quantum Leads focuses on helping businesses generate more leads. This aligns closely with Tim’s long-standing interest in SEO, content, directories, and customer acquisition. The newer ventures all seem connected by one clear theme:

• Build assets that attract attention
• Turn that attention into leads
• Use those leads to create revenue
• Keep the model simple enough to repeat

That theme showed up again when Tim talked about directories. He doesn't view them as isolated websites that only make money from ads or affiliate links. He sees them as part of a larger business machine.

How Directorly.app Came From Tim’s Directory Work

One of Tim’s newer projects is Directorly.app, a tool he created with his friend Chase [Poirier] to make building directories faster and easier. That project came directly from Tim’s own experience building directory sites.

In the past, creating a directory often meant dealing with messy spreadsheets, database imports, technical errors, and time-consuming setup work. Directorly.app is meant to remove much of that friction.

For Tim, the fun isn’t only in the software itself. It’s also about using the tool to build his own directories in healthcare niches, where he still sees many of the same opportunities he discussed in his first Niche Pursuits interview.

A few things make the project fit naturally into Tim’s larger strategy:

• It supports his continued interest in directories
• It helps creators move faster on directory ideas
• It ties into his healthcare-focused directory work
• It reinforces the idea that directories can become lead-generation assets

At the time of the interview, Tim said the product was doing around $2,000 per month. He also said that Directorly.app has been one of the most fun projects he has worked on recently.

Why Tim Is Simplifying Around Healthcare and AI

After walking through several projects, Tim made it clear that Quantum Leads is where most of his attention is going now. He also shared that he sold 70% of Copyblogger to his longtime partner, Darrell Vesterfelt, who is now running it.

That move fits a larger theme in Tim’s current season: simplification. Over the last six months, Tim said he has been simplifying almost every part of his work. That includes his team, his projects, his personal brand, and the markets he wants to serve.

His focus now centers on healthcare and the intersection of AI and operations. A few areas are coming together under that focus:

• Quantum Leads is his main agency
• His directories are moving toward healthcare niches
• His AI work is tied to healthcare operations
• His personal brand is shifting toward the same category

That focus matters because Tim isn't treating AI like a shortcut that removes the need for work. He sees it more as an operations tool that can help healthcare companies address messy systems, paperwork, departmental silos, communication gaps, and repetitive processes.

In his view, AI may not make work disappear. It may create more systems, more workflows, and more decisions for people to manage.

That is part of why healthcare is so interesting to him. The industry offers high-value services, complex operations, and many opportunities to develop better systems that create meaningful business value. 

For Tim, this is less about chasing another trend. It's about aligning his agency experience, healthcare background, directory strategy, and AI interest into a single, focused direction.

Life After a Big Entrepreneurial Win 

One of the more interesting parts of the episode wasn't about tactics. It was about what happens in a founder’s mind after a sale. When you sell a company, you may gain freedom and capital. At the same time, you lose a structure that shaped your days, goals, and sense of progress.

Tim talked about needing to rediscover his drive after the exit. That's a side of entrepreneurship people don't always discuss. A few mindset shifts came through in the conversation:

• After an exit, money may not be the only motivator
• A founder may need a fresh challenge to feel engaged again
• The next business can feel different from the last one
• Identity can get tied to the company more than expected

That part of the interview adds depth to the business advice. It reminds us that selling a company isn't always a clean finish line. It can also be the start of a new season that requires fresh clarity.

Tim’s Directory Strategy

The big question was simple: do directories still work? Tim’s answer was yes, with an important caveat. The old version of a directory, where someone publishes a list of companies and waits for traffic, isn't the full model he is interested in now.

He sees directories as one piece of a larger offer. That means a directory can still have value when it does at least a few things well:

• Organizes a specific market
• Helps people compare options
• Attracts search traffic around buying intent
• Creates leads for companies that want those customers
• Builds authority in a narrow niche

Tim also talked about structure. A directory still needs clear categories, helpful pages, and a layout that makes sense to users. The domain name matters too, although it isn't the whole game. A good name can help with trust and positioning, while the business model behind the site matters more.

The Three-Part Business System

The most useful directory idea from the episode was Tim’s three-part system. Rather than building a directory alone, he talked about combining:

• A directory
• A service offering
• A media asset, such as a newsletter

That combination creates more ways to win. The directory can attract people searching for solutions. The service offering can monetize demand directly. The media asset can keep attention over time and turn one-time visitors into a repeat audience.

This is where the directory becomes more than a content site. It can become an engine for relationships, deal flow, and service revenue.

For example, a directory might list service providers in a niche. The owner can then use the site to collect leads, publish useful content, build an email list, and offer a related service to the same market.

Each part supports the others. The directory creates search visibility. The newsletter builds trust. The service turns that trust into revenue.

Examples of Opportunity

Tim also shared a specific example from a call that showed how this model can create opportunity. The point wasn't just that a directory can rank in search. The bigger point was that a focused online asset can open doors to conversations, partnerships, and client work.

That's one reason Tim’s approach feels different from simply building a niche site. He's thinking about what the asset can lead to. A directory can help identify:

• Who the buyers are
• Who the sellers are
• Where the gaps exist
• Which services people are already paying for
• Which companies need more leads

This is a powerful way to look at a niche. Instead of asking only, “Can this rank?” the better question becomes, “Can this create business opportunities?”.

Tim’s View on Directory Niches

Tim shared a specific directory niche he thought had promise. The logic behind the idea was more important than the niche itself. A good directory niche usually has clear demand and a fragmented market.

That means people are searching for providers, and those providers want more customers. When both sides have a reason to care, the directory is more likely to become useful. A promising directory niche often has:

• Many providers
• Clear buyer intent
• Local or category-based searches
• High-value leads
• Poorly organized existing information
• Businesses willing to pay for visibility or leads

This is why directories can still work in the right markets. They solve a discovery problem. Someone needs help finding a provider. The directory makes that search easier.

Why Lead Quality Matters More Than Traffic Alone 

Quantum Leads closely aligns with this way of thinking. Lead generation isn't new, and Tim isn't treating it like some trendy idea. He's leaning into a durable business need: companies want more qualified prospects.

That is why the directory model and the agency model can work together. A directory can create demand. An agency can help monetize or service that demand. Meanwhile, a newsletter can keep the relationship alive.

That structure gives Tim more than one path to revenue. He can build owned assets, serve clients, and gather market feedback from the same ecosystem. Each part provides him with more information about what buyers want and what companies are willing to pay for.

The Bigger Takeaway for Online Business Builders 

This conversation is especially useful for people with service skills, SEO experience, or an interest in niche websites. The main lesson isn't that everyone should build a directory. Simple online assets can become more valuable when paired with a clear business model.

A few ideas are worth taking seriously:

• Build with a buyer or customer in mind
• Don't rely on traffic alone
• Think about leads early
• Add media when trust matters
• Use services to monetize demand sooner
• Keep operations clean from the start

Tim’s exit from Stodzy also adds an important reminder. If you want a business to have value beyond your own workload, build it that way from the start.

Systems, finances, and team structure matter. They may not feel excited in the day-to-day. They can make a major difference when it is time to sell, scale, or step away.

Final Thoughts

This episode with Tim Stoddart covers a lot: selling an agency, finding a new sense of direction after an exit, building Quantum Leads, and rethinking directories for today’s online business environment.

The strongest idea is that directories shouldn't be viewed as standalone websites. They can be far more useful when connected to services and media. That three-part model gives entrepreneurs a clearer way to think about opportunity. A directory can organize a market. A newsletter can build trust. A service can turn attention into revenue.

Tim’s story also shows that business success comes with personal questions. Selling Stodzy gave him a major win and forced him to think through what kind of work he wanted to do next.

For anyone building online, this conversation is a reminder to create assets that serve a clear market, generate leads, and have value beyond the founder’s daily effort.

Links & Resources

• Visit Quantum Leads
• Learn more about TheShop
• Subscribe to Tim's newsletter

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The post How Tim Stoddart Turned an Agency Exit Into a $2K/Month Directory Tool and New Lead Gen Focus appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Denis Yurchak and I discuss how he turned Skype’s shutdown into Yadaphone, a fast-growing software business with more than 20,000 users and $17,500 in monthly revenue in a little over a year. We also talk about eSIMPal, his newer travel eSIM venture, which is already making about $2,000 per month.

What makes this interview stand out is the speed of execution. Denis spotted a gap, built quickly, stayed close to user feedback, and found traction through smart marketing, simple pricing, and a lean solo-founder approach.

Watch the Full Episode

How Denis Built the Foundation for Indie Products

Before Yadaphone, Denis had already spent years trying to build products that might stick. He had worked as a software engineer for 6 years. His degree was in international relations, not computer science, and he entered programming after realizing that his original field offered few job options.

That background matters because it shaped how he viewed software. He was less interested in being one small part of a large company and more interested in building something himself from scratch.

• He taught himself programming during a summer break.
• Before Yadaphone made money, he had built around 10 products that did not go far financially.
• Those earlier projects still taught him how to ship, post publicly, and handle feedback.

That part of the interview matters because Yadaphone didn't come out of nowhere. It came after years of failed attempts, small lessons, and repeated reps.

How Denis Turned Skype’s Shutdown Into a Product Idea

The spark for Yadaphone came when Microsoft announced that Skype was being retired. Denis saw people complaining online, including Pieter Levels on X, and realized there was still a large group of people who depended on Skype for a simple reason. They needed to call banks, government offices, accountants, and other traditional numbers while living or traveling abroad.

That point is easy to miss if you only think of Skype as an old chat tool. For many people, it was still a low-friction way to make international calls from a laptop without dealing with subscriptions or telecom headaches.

• Denis had used Skype himself while traveling.
• He already had some experience with Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) technology.
• He built the first version of Yadaphone in a single weekend.
• His first posts on X got almost no traction because he didn't have an audience there yet.

The first traction came from Reddit, not X. People found the product, bought credits, and gave him the kind of validation every founder remembers: live Stripe notifications from strangers paying for something he had just built.

How Early Validation Changed the Direction of the Business

One of the best parts of the interview was Denis describing what those first users did next. They didn't just buy and disappear. Some of them sent suggestions, pointed out what was missing on the landing page, and treated the product like something they wanted to help improve.

That kind of response changed the energy of the business. Instead of polishing in private, Denis had proof that people would trust a one-person company if the product solved a painful enough problem.

• Denis reached out to buyers directly for feedback.
• In the first six months, he tried to contact everyone who had purchased credits.
• Pieter Levels later reposted Yadaphone, which led to about 200,000 impressions overnight.

That repost created a spike Denis could see in real time. He watched traffic jump from dozens to hundreds at once, and it gave him the push to keep fixing bugs, polishing the offer, and posting everywhere he could.

How Yadaphone’s Pricing Reduced Friction

Yadaphone’s pricing is one of the clearest examples in the episode of a founder paying attention to what people already liked about the old product they were losing. Instead of forcing customers into subscriptions, Denis kept the credit-based model that many former Skype users preferred.

That decision was especially smart because it lowered trust barriers. A customer doesn't need to commit to a monthly plan to test a new company. They can just buy a small amount of credit and see if it works.

• Individual users can top up credits and use them whenever they want.
• Credits do not expire.
• Yadaphone offers a no-questions-asked refund policy.
• Enterprise accounts start at $100 and let teams share one central balance.
• The company does not charge per-seat fees for team members.

He charges a subscription for one extra feature: a phone number add-on. That gives users a US or Canadian number for incoming calls, SMS, and some OTP use cases. This adds another layer to the product without forcing the whole business into recurring pricing.

How Denis Used Listicles to Get High-Intent Traffic

The smartest growth tactic in the interview was Denis’s approach to old Skype listicles. Once Skype shut down, there were still countless blog posts ranking in Google for terms related to cheap international calling, online calling tools, and Skype alternatives.

Denis saw that as an opening. Those articles needed updating, and if he could convince site owners to replace Skype with Yadaphone, he could inherit highly targeted traffic from pages that already ranked.

• He searched for articles that still mentioned Skype.
• He found the author or content owner through email, LinkedIn, or X.
• He sent a short note pointing out that Skype had shut down.
• He explained why Yadaphone was a good replacement in one clear pitch.

This worked because it was helpful, not pushy. The site owner had a stale article, Denis had a relevant replacement, and both sides stood to gain from updating the page. The results were fast. Denis said that one strong article placement led to roughly 50 signups per day, which is massive for a solo founder.

• He saw direct traffic gains from updated listicles.
• He also got an SEO lift from those mentions and backlinks.
• He said the hard part wasn't the traffic; it was the cold outreach and follow-up.
• Rejection rates were high, but one yes could be worth a lot.

He also shared a smart second step in that funnel. After people saw Yadaphone in a list, many would search for reviews, so he made sure Trustpilot looked credible. According to Denis, 10 to 15 strong reviews can go a long way toward helping people decide whether to trust a smaller software company.

How Enterprise Customers Changed the Revenue Mix

Yadaphone may have started as a product for travelers and solo users, but enterprise customers became a major part of the business. Denis said the company now has 30 enterprise customers, and those accounts generate around 30% to 40% of monthly revenue.

That is a meaningful split because it shows how a simple self-serve tool can also grow into a business product without losing its original appeal. A small company can use the same system as an individual, just with team access and shared credits.

• Some enterprise buyers came from Reddit.
• One early enterprise customer reached out within the first week of launch.
• Denis told him yes before the feature even existed.
• He then coded the organization logic overnight and demoed it the next morning.

That story says a lot about how Denis works. He is willing to sell into demand first, then build the feature quickly if the request makes sense and the customer value is there. Enterprise buyers do ask for more hand-holding up front. Denis said they want demos, live calls, and direct answers, even when the FAQ already covers the basics.

Still, once those companies are on board, they tend to stay. Over the course of a year, only one of Yadaphone’s 30 enterprise customers churned, and Denis said that one was due to unclear copy on the landing page, not a weak product.

How a Misunderstanding Led to eSIMPAL 

The second business, eSIMPAL, came from an unexpected place. People kept landing on Yadaphone and asking for a travel eSIM, partly because the site copy wasn't clear enough, and visitors thought it was part of the offer.

Instead of brushing that off, Denis treated it like a demand. He first looked into partnerships with existing eSIM providers, but the process was slow and expensive, so he chose to build his own product instead.

• eSIMPAL serves travelers who need mobile data abroad.
• Denis launched it into a market he already knew how to reach.
• He used the same audience overlap from Yadaphone to seed traction.
• He added a button on Yadaphone promoting the new service.
• Visitors coming from Yadaphone get a 10% discount.

That cross-sell made a lot of sense. Someone who needs a way to call internationally while traveling is often the same kind of customer who needs a travel eSIM.

The result is a second company already doing about $2,000 per month. It's still smaller than Yadaphone, but it shows how one product can reveal adjacent demand when you pay close attention to user questions.

How Denis Runs Two Companies as a Solo Founder

Denis shared some of his best operating habits. His main point was simple: guard your time and mental space with real discipline.

He has chosen to keep things lean because he doesn't want to become a people manager. That means his products need to be self-serve, his support has to stay under control, and repetitive tasks need to be automated.

• He builds products that help users solve simple issues on their own.
• He uses banners, help content, and product cues to reduce support load.
• He has an internal dashboard where AI drafts support replies for review.
• He said support usually takes less than 30 minutes a day, or about an hour on bad days.
• His rule is to automate a task once he has had to do it manually more than three times.

Denis said coders often default to building more features because that part feels comfortable, while distribution is the harder work. His own daily routine reflects that lesson. Marketing comes first, then support, then coding when needed.

Final Thoughts

This episode works so well because Denis didn't just share a success story. He walked through the mechanics of why Yadaphone worked, from the weekend MVP to the credit-based pricing model, from replacing Skype in listicles to building enterprise features on short notice.

The numbers make the story compelling. In a little over a year, he grew Yadaphone to more than 20,000 users and $17,500 in monthly revenue, while also getting eSIMPAL to about $2,000 per month.

A few themes stayed with me after the interview:

• Look for markets where a large company leaves frustrated users behind.
• Keep the buying process simple when trust is still being built.
• Reach out directly when a stale article or ranking page creates an opening.
• Treat user confusion and feature requests as signals, not noise.
• Put distribution ahead of polishing for polishing’s sake.

Denis moves fast and goes deep, but there is substance behind every part of the story. For anyone building software, this episode delivers concrete lessons on finding demand, launching quickly, pricing simply, turning listicle outreach into growth, and using automation to keep a one-person business efficient.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Yadaphone
• Check how you can use eSIMPal
• Follow Denis

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The post How Denis Yurchak Built Yadaphone to $17,500 a Month and 20,000 Users in Just Over a Year After the Skype Shut Down appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Kevin Surace and I discuss how founders can build better businesses by finding painful problems, testing whether buyers will pay for a fix, and getting timing right before the market shifts. The conversation stays broad enough to apply across industries, but it's filled with specific examples, sharp numbers, and clear lessons for entrepreneurs building online today.

Kevin brings a rare level of credibility to the topic. He's the CEO of Appvance, a longtime AI builder dating back to the 1990s, and an inventor with exactly 95 worldwide patents to his name. He has spent decades spotting overlooked problems, building products around them, and watching what happens when the market is ready, late, confused, or resistant.

Watch the Full Episode

Pain Points Matter More Than Clever Ideas

One of Kevin’s clearest points is that many companies still build products for problems that do not exist. Even worse, some solve problems for people who may care but do not have the budget to pay for help.

That sounds obvious, but it is one of the most common mistakes in entrepreneurship. A founder can be deeply convinced that an idea is brilliant, yet still miss the harder question of whether the intended customer feels enough pain to buy a solution.

Kevin said this issue is everywhere in AI right now. He estimated that more than 5,000 AI companies were funded in recent years, while perhaps only around 100 will end up successful, in part because many lacked a moat and a lasting reason for customers to choose them.

A few filters stand out here:

• Is the problem painful enough to force action?
• Does the buyer control money?
• Is the offer hard to replace?
• Would the customer still care six months from now?

That is a much tougher standard than asking whether an idea sounds exciting.

Curiosity Comes Before Opportunity

Kevin tied business creation to curiosity very early in the conversation. His argument was simple: people who are not curious stop noticing problems, and people who stop noticing problems stop finding business ideas.

He described curiosity as a daily habit, not a trait limited to school or technical work. In his view, it is what helps founders see the friction that others shrug off, ignore, or accept as normal.

That is also where his upcoming book, The Joy Success Cycle, starts to connect with entrepreneurship. He argues that a mind filled with complaints closes down, while a mind operating from joy stays open enough to spot patterns, pain, and opportunity.

That idea leads to a useful habit for founders:

• Watch for repeated irritation.
• Pay attention to awkward workarounds.
• Notice where people waste motion.
• Listen for recurring complaints.

Those are often stronger business signals than trend lists or social media chatter.

Some Problems Are Invisible Until a Product Exists

One of the most interesting parts of the episode is Kevin’s explanation that customers cannot always describe the product they need. Sometimes they only recognize the value after it appears and then becomes difficult to live without.

He used the iPhone as an example of that type of shift. Before smartphones put the web, email, contacts, and calendars into a pocket device, people were not walking around asking for that exact combination, yet few would want to give it up now.

Kevin made the same point with one of his own early AI products. In the late 1990s, his team built a voice assistant named Mary that could read email, check stock quotes, search the web, answer calls, and book calendar time.

The product solved the problem of having no access once away from a desk. This is a useful reminder that founders should not confuse “customers cannot describe it” with “customers would never want it”.

Timing Can Decide Everything

If there was one lesson Kevin elevated above the rest, it was timing. He referenced an incubator study of more than 100 companies that scored teams on factors like talent, experience, money raised, and product quality, yet the only true predictor of success was market timing.

That is a striking claim because it runs counter to the usual founder story. Most entrepreneurs want to believe execution, intelligence, and grit sit at the center of the outcome. Kevin’s point is that even those strengths can be wasted if the market is too early or too late.

He also added a hard truth from personal experience. Founders often think they are late when they are still years too early. Signs timing may still be off:

• Buyers need too much education before they care.
• The team using the product is threatened by it.
• The value is clear to leadership but rejected by the middle layers.
• The product works, but incentives block adoption.

That last point became especially clear in his Appvance example.

Why Great Products Still Get Rejected

Kevin described how Appvance had AI script generation back in 2017. He said the system could generate test scripts with 10 times the coverage of traditional approaches and find serious bugs teams had missed for years.

On paper, that sounds like an easy sale. In practice, many QA teams resisted because the tool exposed issues they were not being asked to find, and in some cases, made them look bad in front of leadership.

Today, he estimated that roughly 60% to 70% of prospects accept the idea, while 30% to 40% still push back because they don't want the system surfacing bugs or putting their jobs in question. That section makes one thing clear:

• Product value does not erase human resistance.
• Buyers do not all share the same incentives.
• A better tool can still create fear.
• Internal politics can slow down a strong offer.

A founder who ignores those forces may misread the market.

Why Going Deep Beats Going Wide

Another major theme was focus. Kevin argued that early businesses win by going deep on one painful problem, not by trying to do everything at once.

His QuietRock story gave that idea real weight. He saw that thin walls caused serious noise problems, then built a soundproof drywall product line around that issue rather than spreading effort across a dozen unrelated products.

The economics were striking. Standard drywall might cost around $10 a sheet, while QuietRock could cost $30, $40, or even $50, yet builders were willing to pay when the alternative included angry homeowners and possible lawsuits. QuietRock became a billion-dollar product line.

That is the kind of math founders should love. A higher price becomes easy to defend when the customer sees a far higher cost on the other side of the problem.

Why Positioning Should Focus on the Buyer’s Outcome

QuietRock also produced one of the best lessons in product positioning. Contractors didn't care about a scientific explanation involving viscoelastic polymers or constrained layer damping. Builders cared that they would not get sued, and architects cared that they could create quieter buildings.

That gap matters in every industry. Founders often become so immersed in how a product works that they forget buyers care far more about what changes after the purchase. This points to a few useful rules:

• Sell the result, not the mechanism.
• Reduce labor friction where possible.
• Listen closely to field objections.
• Improve adoption by fitting the buyer’s habits.

A strong product is only part of the job. The rest is making adoption feel easy enough to say yes.

How AI-First Work Is Becoming the Standard

Kevin said that if a founder is not AI-first, a competitor probably is. His definition of AI-first was concrete. It means going to AI before Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or the web, and using it at least five times an hour, with some people using it even more frequently.

He framed that behavior as a dividing line between those who were moving forward and those who were falling behind. Kevin also said he has subscriptions to around 20 different AI tools, which gives a sense of how seriously he treats experimentation and tool choice.

For online founders, that can translate into:

• Research done faster
• Drafts improved faster
• Ideas pressure-tested faster
• Documents analyzed faster
• Weak assumptions caught sooner

The point is not to hand creative work over blindly. The point is to build speed, range, and sharper judgment into daily work.

Outcome Thinking Changes Creative Work

Kevin also pushed on a sensitive issue for creators. He argued that many people identify with the process, while clients care about the outcome. He used content and music as examples. In both cases, his view is that buyers do not pay for each keystroke or note. They pay for the finished piece and the result it creates.

That idea may be uncomfortable, but it fits the direction of AI tools. Taste, judgment, structure, and selection matter more when production speed rises. For content publishers and solo founders, that likely means:

• Spending less time defending the old process
• Spending more time shaping the angle
• Editing harder
• Raising quality standards
• Focusing on results clients care about

That shift may be one of the biggest business changes of the next few years.

Energy and Attitude Affect Business Results

Kevin said the average person complains more than 100 times a day, often silently, and that this pattern drains attention and limits creative range. His solution was simple and memorable: a one-complaint-a-day rule. Once that complaint is used, the rest of the day has to be handled differently.

In his book, Kevin argues that success follows joy, not the other way around. Whether someone agrees with every part of that claim, it lines up with the rest of the interview because curiosity, attention, energy, and opportunity all seem tightly linked in his way of working.

A few closing ideas Kevin wanted to impart:

• Curiosity feeds business creation
• Complaint narrows attention
• Energy shapes how problems are spotted
• Attitude affects the quality of daily decisions

For a founder, that's not soft advice. It changes the kinds of work the mind can do.

Final Thoughts

This conversation lands best as a warning against shallow business ideas. A founder can have energy, talent, and ambition, but still lose by chasing weak pain points, ignoring timing, or building something buyers do not need badly enough.

Kevin’s message is that better businesses begin with sharper observation. Find a painful problem, determine who will pay to remove it, keep the offer focused, and use AI as part of daily work rather than treating it as a side tool.

For entrepreneurs building online, that may be the clearest takeaway from the episode. The market is moving quickly, but the core work is still the same: spot pain early, package value clearly, and build something people would not want taken away.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Kevin
• Connect via LinkedIn
• Follow @kevinsurace on Instagram
• Follow him on X
• Visit @kevin_surace‘s posts on TikTok
• Check out Kevin's Facebook page
• Watch @kskoolstuff on YouTube
• Get the ‘The Joy-Success Cycle' book

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The post How Kevin Surace Turns Pain Points into Businesses with 95 Patents and 30 Industries of Experience appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Carrie Forrest and I discuss how Google and AI have changed the math for content sites, especially in food blogging. Carrie isn't talking from the sidelines either. She built a site that once brought in nearly 1 million page views a month, and she has lived through the drop that followed.

That is what makes this conversation worth paying attention to. Carrie went from the kind of traffic and income most bloggers dream about to a business that now looks very different, with lower traffic, lower revenue, and a much heavier focus on email, video, and direct audience connection.

Watch the Full Episode

The Rise of a Search-Driven Business

Carrie has been blogging since 2009, and her site, Clean Eating Kitchen, grew out of her personal health story. She later earned a master’s degree in public health, became a nutritionist, and turned her site into a content business that benefited significantly from SEO and search demand.

By the time she first came on Niche Pursuits a few years ago, the system was working. Keyword research, steady publishing, and a growing site authority helped her rank quickly for articles that matched search demand, even when those topics were not especially central to her brand.

A few of the numbers show just how large the business became:

• Carrie said she began leaning into SEO and keyword research around 2016.
• Around 2022, her site was approaching 1 million page views per month.
• She said that the level of traffic translated into roughly $20,000 to $30,000 in ad revenue per month through Mediavine.
• Her 2022 Amazon affiliate 1099 was about $35,000.

For a while, that model looked hard to beat. Search traffic fueled ad revenue, affiliate clicks added another layer of income, and the site had enough authority that new content could rank fast.

The Collapse of the Old Formula

Then the ground shifted. Carrie tied much of the damage to AI Overviews, shrinking organic click opportunities, and broader Google changes that have left fewer spots in the search results for independent publishers.

Her summary was blunt. Her traffic had fallen by about 80%, and because roughly 90% of her revenue was tied to page views, the income drop followed almost in step. The current numbers tell the story in plain terms:

• Mediavine revenue fell from roughly $20,000 to $30,000 a month to around $4,000 to $5,000 a month.
• Amazon's income dropped from tens of thousands per year to roughly $150 to $200 per month.
• Monthly page views went from nearly 1 million to about 200,000.

That is still a meaningful business, but it's very different. Carrie is still full-time, still publishing, and still earning, yet the margin for error is much smaller than it was during the peak search years.

The Tactics That Lost Steam

One of the most interesting parts of the interview was hearing which once-promising tactics no longer carried their old weight. For Carrie, web stories are the clearest example.

When she first appeared on the podcast, web stories were a major source of traffic. She said they drove hundreds of thousands of page views per month for roughly two to three years, but by around 2023, they largely disappeared from their former place in Google, and she eventually noindexed them on her site.

A few takeaways from that shift stand out:

• Web stories looked like a strong channel while Google supported them.
• Once that placement faded, the traffic value faded with it.
• Carrie’s experience is a reminder that publisher growth built on a platform feature can be temporary.

That pattern also showed up in the kind of SEO content that once printed traffic. Carrie gave the example of a post about “yellow fruits”, which performed well because keyword data said people were searching for it. It brought traffic, but it was not the kind of content that felt deeply useful to her core audience, and she has moved away from producing large amounts of that style of post.

The Monetization Experiments That Fell Short

Carrie has not spent the past year sitting still. She has been testing ways to replace lost income, and one of the strongest parts of the episode is how honest she was about what did not go far enough.

Paid workshops produced some sales, but not enough to come close to replacing search-driven revenue. She typically priced them at $10 to $20, said she might get 20 to 30 participants, and noted that a $300 workshop can feel small once you factor in prep time, delivery, and promotion.

Her workshop experience included details worth noting:

• She used email as the main sales channel.
• She recorded some sessions and later sold a replay, including one intro workshop priced around $7.
• She chose lower price points because her audience is used to getting content for free and also faces higher everyday costs.

She also tried asking for tips through a “buy me a coffee” style setup, and the result was minimal. Carrie said it brought in less than $100 over roughly a year, which makes it more of a small extra than a true revenue line.

AI-generated video did not become a breakthrough for her either. She tested YouTube’s AI video tools after attending a workshop and found the tools impressive. Despite that, her audience did not respond well, and the format felt inauthentic for the kind of connection she wants to build.

The Channels Showing Better Signs

The more hopeful part of Carrie’s story is that not everything is moving in the wrong direction. She was clear that some parts of the business are still working and, in a few cases, are becoming more important than ever.

Email sits at the top of that list. Carrie has been building her email list since 2014, but she described it as far more central now because it gives her a direct line to readers without depending on Google to send them first.

She is putting serious work into that channel:

• She uses automated email sequences that send messages every two to three days.
• She segments readers by interest clusters such as Instant Pot and sugar-free topics.
• She sends a weekly broadcast to the full list while refining automations and offers nearly daily.

That matters because email does more than drive clicks. It also gives Carrie a place to reintroduce older content, promote workshops or replays, and include affiliate links where allowed, all while staying close to readers who already want to hear from her.

Private affiliate deals are another brighter spot. Carrie said working directly with relevant companies has produced commissions much higher than those from Amazon, with payouts of 20% or more.

That approach comes with its own workload, but it has some clear upside:

• The products are closely tied to her audience.
• Direct brand relationships can create stronger margins than marketplace affiliate programs.
• Promotions can be tied to brand sales and timed email campaigns.

The New Role of Video

Carrie also sees more promise in short-form video than she once did. That is a notable shift because during her highest-earning years, it made more sense to focus almost entirely on articles.

Now she is using short clips more strategically, especially around recipes that already have a foothold. She said some of those videos rank prominently on Google. While the direct click path isn't always clean on platforms like Instagram or YouTube Shorts, the added visibility seems to boost visibility for nearby content on her site.

A few specifics make the strategy clearer:

• She is producing short-form videos ranging from 30 seconds to 1 minute.
• She uploads clips through Mediavine and places them inside relevant blog posts.
• She has seen particular traction around juice-related content, including beet juice.

This is not the same as the old web stories wave, but it gives her another way to connect media formats. One post, one video, one email, and one social clip can now work together rather than sit in separate silos.

The Leaner Business Behind the Pivot

There's also a less visible part of this transition that matters. Carrie has cut expenses hard and let go of nearly all of the subcontractors she once relied on. She also moved from a large-scale publishing machine to a much smaller, more personal operation.

At one point, she had about 13 subcontractors supporting the business. In 2023, she said she published or republished roughly 350 blog posts in a year. Now, that number is closer to 50, and those posts are written by her rather than outsourced.

The site still has scale even with that slowdown:

• Carrie said the site contains around 1,000 posts.
• She still reviews what is getting traffic and updates photos or content where needed.
• Her time is now split roughly into thirds across blog and SEO work, email, and video.

That slower pace has changed the business's feel. It's less of a publishing sprint and more of a brand-centered operation built around her voice, her expertise, and her direct contact with readers.

The Bigger Takeaway for Bloggers

If there's one theme that came through clearly in this episode, it's this: the old search-only model can no longer be treated as safe. Carrie built a large income stream from a system that rewarded content production and keyword targeting, and when that system changed, the drop was severe.

But this was not just a story about loss. It was also about what remains when a publisher strips away the parts that no longer work well and focuses on the channels where trust still matters, whether that is email, direct affiliate relationships, or videos that put a real person in front of the audience.

Final Thoughts

Carrie Forrest’s story is difficult, but it's also useful. She has gone from nearly 1 million monthly page views and $20,000 to $30,000 in ad revenue to about 200,000 page views and $4,000 to $5,000 a month from Mediavine, with Amazon income reduced to a fraction of what it was.

Those numbers show how hard Google and AI have hit publishers. Her response shows something else, too: a site can still have value after a major drop. However, the path forward may rely less on mass search traffic and more on audience trust, tighter operations, and content that feels personal enough that a machine cannot easily replace it.

Links & Resources

• Visit the Clean Eating Kitchen
• Subscribe to Clean Eating Kitchen's YouTube channel
• Follow Carrie on Instagram
• Learn more about her community
• Explore Carrie's healthy recipes here

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The post How Carrie Forrest Is Rebuilding After Losing 80% of Her Traffic appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Chris Panteli and I discuss earned links, high PR links, trust signals, visibility in LLMs, and what it takes to get cited by AI overviews in search today. This conversation centered on a major shift happening online: a single strong media mention can support traditional SEO, strengthen brand trust, and improve the odds that AI systems recognize and reference your business.

Chris was a fitting guest for this conversation because this was his third appearance on the podcast, and he brought the same depth and focus as always. His agency, Linkifi, is now approaching half a decade in business, which gives him a useful view across Google updates, the release of AI tools, and the more recent shift toward AI-driven search experiences.

Watch the Full Episode

Why Earned Media Matters Right Now

A major takeaway from the interview was that links are no longer the whole story, even though they still matter. Chris made the case that earned links, branded mentions, and trust signals now work together across SEO and AI-driven discovery.

That is why this topic feels so timely. The same coverage that can help your rankings can also improve how language models interpret your brand and whether your company is surfaced in AI-generated answers. A few reasons this matters more now:

• Earned links still pass strong SEO value
• High PR links can strengthen perceived authority
• Brand mentions can reinforce trust even without a link
• Trusted citations can influence AI overviews and LLM recommendations
• One placement can support search, visibility, and brand recall at the same time

Chris described this as a rare overlap. Instead of chasing separate tactics for SEO, AI, and brand building, earned media can support all three.

How Earned Links Support Search and AI Visibility

The best outcome isn't just a backlink from a major site. It's a mention in an authoritative third-party publication that describes your company in a way that helps search engines and AI systems connect your brand to a topic, service, and trusted source.

That's where earned and high-PR links still stand out. A placement on a high-authority site can help in traditional SEO. However, it can also create the kind of third-party validation that large language models seem to rely on when they decide which brands to cite.

Chris framed it as part of a larger trend toward brand survival online. Businesses that want to keep showing up need more than rankings. They need to be talked about by sources that search engines and AI systems already trust. Signals that matter in that environment include:

• Editorial backlinks from established publications
• Branded mentions on trusted media sites
• Repeated references to your company across third-party sources
• Clear ties between your name, your business, and your area of expertise
• Consistent descriptions of what your company does

That consistency becomes a core trust signal. If the web repeatedly connects your brand with one subject area, it becomes easier for AI systems to repeat that association.

Why Trust Signals Matter for LLMs and AI Overviews

One of the strongest parts of the interview was Chris's explanation of how LLMs handle information. He broke it into two sides.

• Training data side: If an LLM has already absorbed enough information to answer a query, it may not need to pull in fresh sources at all.
• Retrieval side: When it does need to search the web or rely on outside information, it still has to choose what it trusts enough to cite or recommend.

That's where trust signals become so important. If your business has been mentioned on reputable sites, those mentions can shape how AI systems evaluate your brand, both in what they already “know” and in what they choose to surface live.

Chris used the example of businesses that pivot into a new market or adopt a new identity. If the web still describes them based on the old version of the brand, LLMs may keep repeating that outdated view until enough new trust signals appear.

This is why earned coverage matters beyond rankings:

• It can help shift the narrative around a brand.
• It can influence how your expertise is categorized.
• It can improve your chance of being cited in AI-generated results.
• It can build a stronger connection between your business and your niche.
• It can help your name show up in recommendation-style queries.

This is a big deal for brands competing in crowded spaces. Being mentioned on the right sites may shape what AI overviews say about you months after the article goes live.

Why High PR Links Still Have a Special Role

Chris has long been associated with tier-one media links, and he made it clear that these still hold a special place. He called them the “creme de la creme” because they can deliver layered benefits in one hit.

A high PR link from a trusted publication can help with classic SEO authority. At the same time, the surrounding mentions can act as a brand signal for LLM visibility and AI citations.

That is what makes earned media so attractive right now. A single placement can combine link value, topical relevance, brand association, and third-party trust in a way few other tactics can match. The strongest placements often include:

• The expert’s full name
• The company name
• The company’s function or specialty
• A quote tied to a relevant topic
• A clickable link when the publication allows it

Chris explained that when those pieces appear together, they provide both search engines and LLMs with a clean package to read. It tells them who the person is, which company they represent, and which company they should be associated with.

Why AI Has Made Pitching Both Easier and Harder

AI has made it easier to send more pitches, which means journalists are now hit with more noise than before. Chris described the progression clearly. In the early days, AI tools were clumsy and weak, but they helped speed up small tasks. Today, the problem is different because polished AI writing can make thousands of pitches sound clean, generic, and nearly identical.

That creates a harder environment for anyone trying to secure coverage. Journalists are sorting through more responses, more fake authority, and more thin commentary. Here are a few of the current challenges he mentioned:

• Journalists are buried under AI-assisted outreach
• Many responses now sound the same
• Fake profiles have made reporters more skeptical
• AI detection tools are being used in some workflows
• Thin online identities can trigger distrust

Chris mentioned tools like Pangram being built into parts of the process, and he noted that some platforms may screen for AI-like submissions before a journalist ever reads them. That raises the bar for anyone who wants to stand out.

Why Being Credible Matters as Much as Being Clever

A powerful thread throughout the episode was that earned media now depends on credibility at every stage. You cannot just write a clever pitch and hope for the best. Chris talked about the damage caused by fake expert profiles and AI-generated personas. 

Because of that, journalists now pay closer attention to whether the source looks real across the web. That means your public presence matters. If you're trying to earn mentions, your online footprint is part of the pitch, even before you send a word. Here are some signs that help build trust:

• A complete and credible about page
• More than one active social profile
• Consistent business and expertise descriptions
• Podcast appearances and industry features
• Multiple photos and public references across the web

Consensus matters. LLMs tend to trust repeated, consistent information, so mixed or conflicting descriptions can weaken your authority.

Why Local Media Can Be a Fast Path to Earned Coverage

One of the smartest tactical sections of the interview focused on local media. Chris argued that local coverage is one of the most overlooked paths to earned links, brand mentions, and trust signals. For local businesses, the fit is obvious. A realtor, lawyer, plumber, or local service provider often has relevant commentary on stories that affect the area they serve.

What makes local media attractive is that it is often easier to break into. Chris noted that many businesses may have only five, 10, or 15 local publications worth targeting, making relationship building much more manageable than pitching national outlets.

These are the reasons why local media can work so well:

• Less competition than the national press
• Easier relevance for local experts
• Stronger odds of repeat coverage
• Helpful signals for local SEO
• Good training ground for broader PR efforts

He also pointed out that this can extend beyond plumbers and lawyers. A founder with a visible business profile may be able to comment on local business stories, even if the company serves national customers.

Where AI Can Help Without Hurting Your Chances

Chris was not anti-AI. He drew a clear line between helpful use and lazy use. He said AI can be useful for ideation, background research, and organizing information. What it should not do is produce a final pitch that sounds like everyone else.

That distinction matters because AI works best as support, not as a substitute for your expertise. If everyone uses the same tools to produce the same kind of answer, then nobody stands out. Better uses for AI in this process include:

• Researching a story angle before replying
• Organizing notes and source material
• Reviewing themes in journalist requests
• Drafting internal outlines for human editing
• Repurposing coverage after it goes live

That last point is easy to overlook. Chris stressed that once you earn a mention, you should not let it die on the publication page.

Why One Mention Should Lead to More Visibility

Chris closed with a point that deserves extra attention. Once you earn coverage, keep using it. That means sharing it with your audience, posting it on social media, sending it to your email list, and turning it into additional trust signals wherever your audience already pays attention.

This is how one earned link or one high PR mention can continue to support brand growth after the first spike of attention fades. He also shared a useful data point from Linkifi’s own business. This year alone, the company has seen more sales calls booked by LLMs than in the last quarter or two of the prior year, with several calls per day.

That makes the opportunity easier to grasp:

• Visibility in LLMs can turn into sales conversations
• Trusted mentions can influence future discovery
• Good coverage can keep paying off after publication
• Reuse across channels can widen the return from each win

Final Thoughts

This episode made a strong case that earned links are still one of the best assets a business can build, but their role has expanded. High-PR links, trust signals, visibility in LLMs, and the chance to be cited by AI overviews now sit in the same conversation.

That's why this topic matters so much right now. A business that earns credible coverage is not just helping its SEO campaign; it is also helping its brand. It's building a stronger case for why search engines, AI systems, journalists, and future customers should trust what that brand has to say.

Links & Resources

• Get the free press coverage cheat sheet
• Connect with Chris
• Follow Chris and Linkifi
• Learn more about digital PR link building

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The post How Chris Panteli Uses 1 Earned Media Mention to Influence SEO, Brand Trust, and AI Citations appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Data Coach Claire and I discuss what is driving Amazon Influencer earnings now, and why the old “film whatever shows up” approach is no longer enough. She brings a rare data-first perspective to the conversation, with a formal analysis background, about 2 years in the program, and a business on track to reach roughly $100,000 while working around 15 hours per week.

The big takeaway is that Amazon Influencer isn't dead, but it's far less forgiving than it used to be. Success now depends more on product research, average view duration, better workflows, and treating each video as part of a larger business system rather than a casual upload.

Watch the Full Episode

Why Amazon Influencer Is Not Dead

A lot of creators are frustrated because the easy wins are harder to find. That doesn't mean the opportunity is gone, but it does mean the strategy has changed. Data Coach Claire’s view is that the program has shifted from casual volume to intentional production. 

More creators are uploading videos, more products have competition, and the quality bar has moved higher. People who are still earning are not just posting more; they are also investing. They are making better choices before they ever hit record. That includes:

• Picking products with enough buyer demand.
• Looking for items where videos can still win placement.
• Avoid products that already have crowded carousels.
• Creating videos that help shoppers make a purchase decision.

The key point is that Amazon Influencer has matured. A simple product demo may still work in some cases, but the margin for low-effort content is much smaller. Data Coach Claire’s data suggests creators need to be more selective, more efficient, and more focused on the viewer’s experience. That is a significant shift from the program's earlier days.

Why Data Coach Claire’s Data Changes the Conversation

Data Coach Claire views Amazon Influencer through a lens different from someone who is only chasing the next viral tactic. Her results give her analysis weight. In about 2 years, she has built the business to about $100,000 in revenue while working roughly 15 hours per week.

That matters because the goal isn't just to upload hundreds or thousands of videos. The goal is to build a repeatable system that generates income without wasting time on tasks that don't move the needle. Her approach centers on questions like:

• Which products are worth filming?
• Which videos hold viewer attention?
• Which activities waste time?
• Which metrics predict carousel placement?
• Which products keep earning over time?

That last point is important. Many creators focus only on current earnings, but Data Coach Claire also considers decay. If a product earns today, that doesn't mean it will earn next year. According to her data, about 80% of today's products may not be earning a year from now.

That explains why many creators feel stuck even when they keep posting. They are adding new videos, but old earners are quietly falling off.

How Video Production Time Can Mislead Creators

One of Data Coach Claire’s most interesting findings was that the time spent making a video did not strongly match earnings. That is a big deal because many creators assume spending more time on a video will lead to better results. She found that the highest performers tended to sit at the extremes.

On one end, some creators made very quick, efficient videos that performed well by avoiding wasted time. On the other hand, some creators made more deliberate, higher-effort videos with a clear reason to exist. The weak zone was the middle. That often looked like:

• Spending 20 to 40 minutes per video.
• Adding effort without a clear viewer benefit.
• Overthinking details that shoppers may not care about.
• Creating content that is not fast enough to be efficient or polished enough to stand out.

This is a valuable warning. More time doesn't automatically mean better content. A creator can spend 35 minutes filming and editing a video, but if the product choice is weak or the viewer leaves after 10 seconds, that time may not pay off. The better question is not, “How long did this take?” It is, “Did this video give the shopper a reason to keep watching and a reason to buy?”

How Thumbnails May Be Getting Too Much Attention

Another surprising takeaway was that thumbnail style didn't meaningfully predict earnings. A bad thumbnail can still hurt a video if it looks confusing, sloppy, or irrelevant.

But Data Coach Claire’s point is that many creators may be spending too much time perfecting thumbnails when the data does not show a strong link to earnings. This matters because time is limited. If a creator has 15 hours per week, every minute spent tweaking thumbnails is a minute not spent on product research, filming stronger content, or improving retention.

A better thumbnail process might be:

• Keep it clear.
• Show the product.
• Avoid clutter.
• Make it easy to identify the item.
• Move on once it's good enough.

The lesson is not to ignore thumbnails. The lesson is to stop treating them like the main reason a video wins or loses. Data Coach Claire’s findings suggest that creators should shift more attention toward what happens after the shopper clicks. That is where average view duration becomes so important.

Why Average View Duration May Be the Hidden Metric

The biggest insight from the episode was Data Coach Claire’s findings on average view duration. According to her data, watch time was about six times more predictive of carousel placement than conversion rate. That is a huge shift in how creators should think about success.

Many people focus heavily on whether a video converts. Conversion still matters, but her data suggests that Amazon may place heavy value on how long shoppers stay with the video. The key metric is not percent viewed. It's the total watch seconds.

That distinction is easy to miss. A 25-second video might have a high percentage viewed, but it may not generate much total watch time. A longer video that keeps people engaged can produce more watch time, even if the percentage viewed is lower.

This changes the way creators should think about length. For a while, many Amazon Influencer creators aimed for short videos in the 30-60 second range. Her data suggests that it may now be too short in many cases.

Top creators often average more than one minute in view duration. That means they aren't just making longer videos; they are keeping shoppers engaged long enough for those extra seconds to count.

The First Seconds Matter So Much

If average view duration is a major signal, the opening of the video becomes much more important. A video that loses shoppers right away is in trouble. Data Coach Claire’s view is that when viewers bail early, the video can be dead on arrival.

That doesn't mean every video needs a flashy intro. In fact, long intros can hurt because shoppers are usually looking for product information, not entertainment for its own sake. A stronger opening might quickly answer:

• What is the product?
• Who is it for?
• What problem does it solve?
• What will the viewer learn by watching?
• Why is this review different from the listing photos?

The first few seconds should make the shopper feel like the video is worth staying with. That is especially true when several videos compete for attention on the same product page. Creators should avoid wasting the opening on generic statements. Shoppers want useful information quickly.

Instead of saying, “Today I’m reviewing this product,” a creator could lead with the most important buyer question. For example, “Here’s what surprised me after using this for two weeks,” or “Before you buy this, look at the size difference.”

How Product Depreciation Explains Creator Frustration

Data Coach Claire’s point about depreciation may explain why so many creators feel their accounts aren't growing. If about 80% of today’s earning products may stop earning within a year, creators are fighting a constant replacement cycle. New videos are not only adding income but also replacing older videos that are fading.

Growth requires more than steady uploading. It requires better selection and stronger videos that can defend their spots. A creator who posts low-intent videos may see some early wins, but those wins can disappear as competition arrives. 

In contrast, a creator with better product research and stronger retention is more likely to stay in place longer. Depreciation can happen for several reasons:

• The product loses demand.
• New creators upload better videos.
• The carousel changes.
• Amazon changes commission rates.
• The item is out of stock.
• A brand changes the listing.

This is why Amazon Influencer can feel like a treadmill. The answer is not only to run faster. The better answer is to improve the system. That means better product filters, better filming decisions, better hooks, and better use of data.

Creator Connections Is Becoming More Important

Another major shift in the business is the rise of Creator Connections. With on-site commission rates being cut hard, creators need to focus on additional earning paths. Data Coach Claire said Creator Connections is becoming more central, especially for creators who want to protect their income as the program changes.

This also makes product research more important. In Data Coach Claire's experience, strategic product purchases outperform brand samples by about three times.

That is a major finding because many creators assume free samples are automatically the best route. Free products can help, but they aren't always the best business decision. Brand samples may have problems like:

• Low buyer demand.
• Weak product pages.
• Poor commission potential.
• Crowded video placements.
• Limited long-term earning potential.

Strategic purchases give creators more control. They can choose products based on demand, opportunity, and likely return, rather than filming whatever a brand sends. This doesn't mean every creator should spend heavily on products. It means purchases should be treated like investments, not impulse buys.

Why Product Research Needs to Come First

Data Coach Claire’s data points to one clear shift: product research now matters more than ever. In the early phase of Amazon Influencer, creators could get away with filming items they already owned. That can still work sometimes, but it's not enough as a full strategy.

A better process starts before the camera turns on. Creators should ask:

• Is this product already crowded with videos?
• Are the existing videos weak enough to beat?
• Does the item have enough demand?
• Is there a reason shoppers would want a video review?
• Can I add information that the listing does not show?
• Is the commission path worth the effort?

Good product research reduces wasted filming time. It also helps creators avoid the middle zone Data Coach Claire warned about, where a person spends 20 to 40 minutes making a video with no clear advantage.

The goal is not to make every video perfect. The goal is to spend effort where it has a chance to pay. That mindset turns Amazon Influencer from a content hobby into a data-driven income system.

Quality Now Means More Than Polish

When people hear “better video quality”, they often think of cameras, lighting, editing, and thumbnails. Those things can help, but Data Coach Claire’s findings point to a different kind of quality.

The more important question is whether the video keeps shoppers watching and helps them make a decision. Quality may include:

• Showing the product in use.
• Comparing size, texture, or features.
• Explaining what the listing does not make clear.
• Sharing problems or drawbacks.
• Answering common buyer concerns.
• Getting to the point quickly.

A simple video can still be high quality if it answers the right questions. A polished video can still fail if it wastes the shopper’s time. This is where creators need to be honest with themselves. Are they making videos that look busy, or videos that hold attention?

Data Coach Claire’s watch time finding makes that question much more important. If watch time is far more predictive of placement than conversion rate, then the viewer experience needs to be the center of the process.

Why the Old Advice Is Falling Behind

A lot of older Amazon Influencer advice still focuses on volume, speed, and filming anything available. That advice came from a different stage of the program. It worked better when the competition was lighter, and carousels had more open space.

Today, the same approach can lead to a bloated account with many videos that don't earn much. Outdated advice often sounds like:

• Post as many videos as possible.
• Film every item in your house.
• Keep every video very short.
• Spend extra time on thumbnails.
• Take every free sample you can get.

Data Coach Claire’s data challenges several of those ideas. It shows that video length, watch time, product selection, and depreciation all deserve more attention. The opportunity is still there, but creators need to be more intentional than before.

Final Thoughts

Data Coach Claire’s interview is a reminder that Amazon Influencer rewards creators who pay attention to the numbers. Her experience shows that a creator can build a serious income stream in the program, even on a part-time schedule. But the path now depends on better decisions, not just more uploads.

The biggest takeaways are clear.

• Average view duration may matter far more than many creators thought.
• Short videos can underperform if they don't generate enough total watch time.
• Thumbnails may not deserve as much time as creators give them.
• Mid-effort videos can waste energy without producing better returns.
• Product depreciation means creators need a stronger replacement system.
• Creator Connections and strategic product choices are becoming more important.

For anyone building an Amazon Influencer business, the message is simple: stop treating each video as a one-off upload. Start treating the whole process as a system.

That means using data to decide what to film, how much effort to invest, and where to focus. The creators who adapt to that shift will have a much better chance of staying profitable as the program continues to change.

Links & Resources

• Visit Data Coach Claire's website
• Get this free AIP data report

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The post How Data Coach Claire Uses Product Research to Outperform Brand Samples by 3x and Stay on Track for $100K appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, François Mommens and I discuss what it looks like to build and grow three SaaS businesses in the SEO space over the course of more than a decade. This conversation follows a true founder journey, from an early failed business to the launch of Linkody 13 years ago, and then into the later creation of IndexChecker and LinkStorm.

What makes François’s story so compelling is its honesty and measured tone. He shares how Linkody started as a simple backlink-tracking solution and how 100% of his customers come through organic traffic. He also discusses how he once raised prices by 2x without hurting conversions, and how competition pushed him to branch into new products for the SEO market.

Watch the Full Episode

How Linkody Grew From a Crude MVP Into a Business

After that first wave of attention, François rebuilt the product, added payments, and launched a better version while still keeping his job. Once he saw paid users coming in, he decided to go all in. The early product was far from polished, and he said so himself. 

The fact that strangers were willing to pay for something he had built on evenings and weekends gave him the confidence to leap. However, growth didn't explode overnight. He said revenue was low in the beginning, and progress was steady rather than dramatic, but his personal situation gave him enough breathing room to stick with it.

• He kept his 9-to-5 while building the paid version.
• The first plan cost about $4 per month.
• He left his job only after receiving an early payment.
• He had no mortgage, no kids at the time, and enough buffer to take a shot.

How Organic Search Became the Engine Behind Everything

One of the clearest themes of the interview was François’s commitment to SEO as a customer-acquisition channel. He said 100% of his customers have come from organic traffic.

That didn't happen by chance. François began working on SEO early, while he was still building the product. He kept investing in the basics such as content, site structure, blog posts, internal links, and backlinks.

He also tested other channels, including Facebook ads and Google ads, but said the math didn't work for him. Because organic search kept bringing customers, he stayed focused on the channel that was producing results.

• François said he does not rely on grey- or black-hat tactics.
• He focuses on homepage optimization, money keywords, internal links, full niche coverage, and backlinks.
• He repeated that same SEO approach across all three SaaS businesses.
• He sees authority from one site helping the others when they are well linked.

How Pricing Changed as the Product Improved

Pricing was another part of the story that felt refreshingly honest. François said he started dirt cheap, then raised prices slowly as the product got stronger.

At one point, he tried a much bigger jump. He doubled prices across all plans to see what would happen, and conversions barely moved.

That experiment changed his view of pricing. Today, Linkody’s first plan starts at $15 per month, and he said some customers pay several hundred dollars because they manage hundreds of websites and thousands of links.

• His price test showed that demand was less fragile than he expected.
• Linkody serves both smaller users and heavy agency-style accounts.
• The product now covers backlink data, competitor backlink research, and 24/7 monitoring.
• Customers can use it for link exchanges, link gap analysis, and competitor research.

How Competition Pushed Him to Build Beyond Linkody

Linkody reached a plateau around 2020, and since then, François said it has declined slightly. He traced that to a much tougher market, with roughly 40 to 50 competitors, including large names like Ahrefs and Semrush.

That shift mattered because Linkody had once benefited from a free tool that attracted strong traffic and conversions. Later, bigger brands copied similar features, making it harder to stand out and maintain that momentum.

Instead of trying to force one product to do everything, François chose to diversify. That decision led to his second and third SaaS businesses.

• He said Linkody has a few hundred paid customers.
• The market became crowded enough that he called it a “red blood ocean”.
• Increased competition changed growth, but it did not end the business.
• His response was to expand the product, not panic.

How IndexChecker Came Out of a Traffic Mismatch

IndexChecker was born from a feature inside Linkody. François had added a way to check whether the page containing a backlink was indexed by Google, since a backlink on a non-indexed page has far less value.

He later turned that feature into a free tool to attract more users to Linkody. The free checker drew a lot of traffic, but it didn't convert because the audience was looking for a narrow solution rather than a backlink-monitoring platform.

Rather than throw that demand away, he built a standalone paid tool around it. That became IndexChecker, and he said it has been growing slowly but steadily as its own business.

• The free version lets users check up to five pages.
• Traffic was strong, but the audience was not closely matched with Linkody.
• François used Linkody’s domain authority to help the new project get off the ground.
• He still had to build content, links, and search visibility for the new tool.

How LinkStorm Opened a New Chapter

The third business, LinkStorm, came from another repeated SEO pain point: internal linking. François noticed how time-consuming it was to link new blog posts to older ones and to link older posts back to newer ones.

That problem felt much bigger than his own blog. He realized that every publisher handles internal linking, and that broken internal links accumulate over time as teams merge articles, delete pages, or change the site structure.

LinkStorm is his newest and most ambitious product, and unlike the first two, it has a co-founder. François said he brought in Shyam [Verma], a developer and entrepreneur he first hired, then later invited to become a partner after seeing how much ownership he took.

• LinkStorm focuses on internal linking opportunities and broken internal link issues.
• François said this is his most innovative product so far.
• He still owns Linkody and IndexChecker alone, but LinkStorm is a shared build.

How the Daily Work Gets Harder After Launch

A useful part of the interview was François’s pushback on the fantasy that SaaS becomes easy once the product ships. In his view, the harder part often starts after launch.

He listed the moving parts founders have to manage:

• API changes
• Provider failures
• Higher data costs
• UI consistency
• Feature trade-offs
• Customer support
• Server maintenance
• Backups
• Abuse prevention

For tools built on outside data sources, the operational load only grows over time. That matters even more when one founder is doing most of the work. François said solo founders face both decision fatigue and implementation fatigue, since they have to choose what to do and then do it themselves.

• He mentioned brute force attacks and data abuse as recurring problems.
• Provider changes can hit margins if a replacement service costs more.
• A small product change can force a much bigger UI rethink.
• Running three products multiplies those choices every day.

How He Runs Three SaaS Products Without Letting Work Take Over

François was open about the fact that managing three SaaS businesses isn't easy. He relies on structure, prioritization, and tools like Workflowy to keep track of what matters across all three products.

His team is in India, about four hours ahead of him, so he begins the day by checking Slack and then handling customer support that came in overnight. After that, he picks the top task, which could be product work, testing, SEO, content, analysis, or planning.

What stands out most is that he made an early choice not to build his life around endless work hours. He said he chose normal working hours because the odds of a giant exit are low. He didn't want to trade away his family and interests for a small shift in monthly revenue.

• He has a two-year-old and wants to be present as his child grows.
• He sets aside one full day on the weekend for family.
• He keeps one day for rock climbing and lifts weights three times a week.
• He also plays piano and joins a weekly jam.

How He Pushes Back on “Fake Truths” About Business

One of the most memorable parts of the interview was François’s phrase “fake truths”. He used it for ideas that get repeated so often in founder circles that people start treating them as facts.

The biggest one was the belief that hard work and clean execution always lead to success. François said luck still plays a major role, and timing matters far more than many founders want to admit.

He also questioned the rush to ship MVPs as fast as possible. In his view, rapid launches don't tell you much if you lack distribution. This is because weak exposure creates weak signals, making it hard to tell the difference between a bad idea and a good one shown to the wrong crowd.

• He pointed to false negatives as a major problem in early validation.
• A strong positive signal can be meaningful, but silence is harder to read.
• Distribution changes the value of feedback.
• Shipping in a weekend does not make a product special by itself.

How He Sees SEO and AI Changing the Next Phase

Even with big changes in search, François said his core SEO approach has not changed much. He still sticks to the basics and believes those basics keep working.

Where he does see change is in how people discover brands. He expects AI-driven search to reduce blue-link traffic over time. Despite that, he also thinks the clicks that do come through citations may be more qualified because those users are deeper in the decision process.

He also uses AI heavily inside the business. François said he uses AI for nearly every task, including coding, customer support on two of his tools, and documentation work tied to feature releases and GitHub changes.

• He believes backlink acquisition has become much harder than it used to be.
• He thinks mentions on platforms like Reddit and forums matter more in an AI-shaped search world.
• He said he no longer writes code by hand as he once did.
• He is using AI to help update the help center content in response to product changes.

How This Founder Story Leaves a Lasting Impression

François Mommens’s story is a strong reminder that SaaS growth is often quieter and slower than the internet makes it seem. One product came from a personal pain point, another from a traffic mismatch, and a third from repeated friction within content operations.

There's no single lesson here, and that's part of why the episode works so well. It's a story about patience, compound search traffic, pricing tests, product spin-offs, family priorities, and the long stretch between idea and a durable business.

Final Thoughts

This episode lands because it's not built around hype. It's a founder story in the clearest sense, with wins, stalls, experiments, failed side projects, and a steady habit of building for a market François knows well.

For anyone in the SEO space, there's extra relevance here because these products sit close to daily work. And for anyone thinking about SaaS, the bigger takeaway is simple: start with a real problem, stay close to the channel that brings customers, and don't confuse common founder sayings with facts.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Linkody
• Visit Index Checkr here
• See how LinkStorm works
• Connect with François

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The post How François Mommens Turned 1 Backlink Problem Into 3 SaaS Businesses appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Christopher Gimmer and I discuss building and scaling SaaS products, from the early rise of Snappa to the launch of GoodMetrics and the bigger question of how founders should market software in a world shaped by AI. It was a conversation packed with practical lessons on product development, pricing, acquisition timing, and what it now takes to earn attention online.

Christopher’s story spans multiple eras of online business, from a time when SEO opportunities were wide open to today’s far more competitive, AI-influenced landscape. What stood out most is how he has adapted at every stage, first by growing Snappa through content-driven marketing and now by rethinking product design and distribution for a future where AI agents may become as important as human users.

Watch the Full Episode

Starting With Side Projects Before Finding SaaS Traction

Christopher's background was in finance and accounting, and he spent about five years in corporate work before deciding he wanted more freedom and a different lifestyle. That shift led him into online business, SEO, and software.

Along the way, he teamed up with his now co-founder, Marc [Chouinard], and the two began launching side projects together before eventually finding meaningful traction with Snappa.

A key detail here is that Snappa was not their first success. Before that, they had built BootstrapBay, a marketplace connected to the Bootstrap framework. While it generated approximately $10,000 a month in revenue, Christopher said profits were closer to $3,000 a month after accounting for commissions.

• They spent roughly three years hacking on projects before Snappa became the breakthrough.
• BootstrapBay helped validate that they could build and sell online products, even if it were not enough on its own to fully replace their incomes.
• That earlier experience also exposed a real pain point that later became the seed for Snappa.

Turning a Simple Frustration Into Snappa

The original idea for Snappa came from a very practical need. Christopher had to create graphics for blog content and marketing, but he was not a designer and found Photoshop cumbersome for everyday use.

That gap sparked the idea for a design tool aimed at marketers and non-designers. Rather than competing on professional-grade complexity, Snappa would focus on making graphic creation easier and faster for people who just needed useful visuals for their businesses.

At the same time, Christopher got an unexpected boost from content. He wrote a post about where to find free stock photos, and it took off, eventually ranking on the first page of Google for “free stock photos”. This helped inspire a second project called StockSnap that later became a lead generation engine for Snappa.

• A viral blog post created early search momentum.
• StockSnap became an audience-building asset before Snappa launched.
• By launch time, they already had a landing page and a waitlist in place.

Launching Snappa and Immediately Rebuilding It

One of the most memorable parts of the interview was Christopher’s description of how hard Snappa was to build. He and Marc started in 2015, and at that time, browsers were simply not well-suited to support a design tool, so much of the product required hacks and workarounds to function.

Then came a painful twist. About one or two weeks after launch, they realized the way the product had been built would not scale. Marc had to spend about a month refactoring the entire codebase, essentially, while new customers were arriving and feature requests were piling up.

That first month could easily have broken a younger company. Instead, it became one of those classic startup moments where a difficult technical reset became the cost of building something that could survive long-term.

Reaching Early Revenue Milestones Fast

Even with those challenges, Snappa’s early traction was strong. Christopher said they reached about $2,000 in monthly recurring revenue within a month and roughly $10,000 MRR within six months.

That traction mattered personally as well as professionally. Christopher had taken a one-year sabbatical from his government job in Canada. By the time that leave ended, Snappa had enough momentum for him to decide he was not going back.

This is an important reminder that the visible success story usually sits on top of years of less visible effort. Snappa may have scaled relatively quickly after launch, but it was built on a long runway of experiments, failures, and learning.

Building the Snappa Marketing Flywheel

Christopher’s explanation of Snappa’s growth flywheel was one of the most useful parts of the conversation. After the initial audience from StockSnap started to level off, he knew they needed another distribution channel, and SEO became the answer.

He started by asking what people were really using Snappa for. That led him to social media image-sizing keywords like “Twitter header size”, “Facebook cover size”, and “LinkedIn banner size”, all of which had meaningful search volume and relatively low competition at the time.

From there, they built content and landing pages in layers. Informational posts targeted the sizing questions, adjacent landing pages targeted higher-intent terms like “Twitter header maker”, and template pages captured users searching for ready-made creative assets.

• Informational keywords generated traffic and backlinks.
• Commercial landing pages targeted “maker” searches with stronger purchase intent.
• Template-related pages completed the loop and helped convert users closer to action.

Christopher also made a subtle but important point about conversion. A keyword like “Twitter header size” may not convert directly at the same rate as a bottom-funnel page. Despite that, the content still mattered because it built link equity and internal linking strength that helped the rest of the site rank.

That broader perspective is what made the flywheel work. The top of the funnel was valuable not just because of direct signups but because it strengthened the whole domain and supported the money pages that converted more efficiently.

Growing to Seven Figures and Learning Hard Lessons About Timing

Snappa’s revenue curve followed an unusual pattern. Christopher described the first four years as a steady and almost boring rise, with growth moving up and to the right in a consistent way rather than through one explosive moment.

Then COVID hit, and Snappa saw its big acceleration. Christopher said they had reached about $1 million in ARR just before COVID and then grew from roughly $1 million to $1.5 million during that period before eventually plateauing.

That plateau later shaped how he thinks about selling a business. He said they had acquisition offers over the years. However, one of his biggest lessons is that growth drives valuation, and once growth stalls, valuation can drop sharply.

He was candid about wishing he had thought more aggressively about selling during the peak growth moment. That kind of honesty is valuable because it shows how much exit timing depends not only on profitability but also on the story your growth curve is telling buyers.

Finding a Pricing Ceiling in a Prosumer Market

Pricing is one of the hardest SaaS topics, and Christopher did not pretend otherwise. He explained that Snappa lived in a prosumer market. In that type of crowded category, the market often settles around a certain acceptable monthly price range.

• Snappa’s core price point centered around $15 per month.
• The broader market appeared to support about $10 to $19 monthly for similar tools.
• They did have a higher-priced team plan, but the bigger limitation was that the product did not have a strong value metric that naturally expanded as customers grew.
• Limited expansion revenue made it harder to grow average revenue per user over time.

That created a ceiling. Without a compelling usage-based lever or clear expansion mechanism, pricing becomes less about creativity and more about what the market will tolerate.

Why Christopher Started GoodMetrics

The second half of the interview shifted to GoodMetrics, Christopher’s newer project. The origin story was simple and relatable: he was frustrated with GA4 and missed the usability of Universal Analytics.

He said Universal Analytics was not perfect, but it was functional and intuitive enough for most people. In contrast, GA4 felt difficult, less straightforward, and far more dependent on custom setup, which pushed him toward building an alternative.

GoodMetrics grew out of that frustration, but it also reflects a larger market need. Christopher noticed that many privacy-friendly analytics tools were too stripped down. They often reset visitor information every 24 hours, making it hard to distinguish between new and returning users or preserve first-touch attribution.

• GoodMetrics is built as a cookieless analytics tool.
• It aims to preserve useful reporting without requiring cookie banners or complex consent setups.
• The product is designed to feel more like a modern version of Universal Analytics than a minimalist dashboard.

Building GoodMetrics for Both Humans and AI Agents

GoodMetrics forced Christopher to approach product development differently than he did with Snappa. Instead of focusing mainly on front-end usability, this build required much more attention to infrastructure, data handling, and long-term scalability. 

That shift also shaped how he thinks about the product’s future, especially as more software interactions begin moving away from traditional dashboards and toward AI-driven workflows.

• During development, Christopher and his team changed both database providers and hosting infrastructure to make sure the product could scale properly.
• He viewed those early technical changes as a direct response to lessons learned from Snappa, where major scaling issues appeared right after launch.
• GoodMetrics went through an alpha and early-access phase before becoming publicly available.
• Christopher believes strong APIs will matter more going forward because products may need to serve AI agents as much as human users.
• He expects analytics workflows to increasingly involve prompts, automations, and agent-based interactions instead of manual reporting inside dashboards.

Rethinking SaaS Marketing in an AI-Driven Search World

Christopher’s view on marketing has evolved dramatically since the early Snappa days. He was direct about the fact that SEO and content are harder now, especially with more ads, stronger competition, and AI Overviews taking attention away from traditional organic results.

His answer is not to abandon content. Instead, he believes founders need to shift toward bottom-of-funnel content. This includes detailed use case pages, feature pages, comparison pages, and crystal-clear documentation that helps both users and LLMs understand what the product does and how it differs from competitors.

He also emphasized that passive strategies alone are no longer enough. Founders should pair SEO with active outreach, such as monitoring social platforms for people complaining about competitors and stepping into those conversations directly.

• Christopher monitors platforms like X for complaints about GA4 and similar tools.
• He sees active outreach as a way to start the snowball before word of mouth kicks in.
• He also called out communities, Reddit, LinkedIn, Facebook groups, and niche conversations as places founders should show up intentionally.

That advice feels especially relevant right now. As search changes, a founder’s willingness to be present in real conversations may matter just as much as their ability to publish content at scale.

Final Thoughts

This conversation was a great reminder that successful SaaS businesses are rarely built in a straight line. Christopher Gimmer’s journey includes side projects, viral content, early traction, painful rebuilds, plateaued growth, missed timing, and a fresh start with a new product shaped by a completely different market reality.

What makes his story compelling is that he isn't relying on yesterday’s playbook. He is taking the lessons from Snappa, applying them to GoodMetrics, and thinking ahead to a future where software has to work not just for people but for AI agents too.

For founders, marketers, and builders, there's a lot to take from this episode. While the old fundamentals still matter, the tactics are changing fast, and the people who adapt early may have the best chance to build something that lasts.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Snappa
• Explore Goodmetrics
• Connect with Christopher
• See Christopher's new side project

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The post How Christopher Gimmer Built Snappa to $1M ARR Before Launching GoodMetrics appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In the latest episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Vi Wickam and I discuss how Google Ads and SEO fit together, where each channel works best, and how business owners can think more clearly about when to invest in one versus the other. The conversation stays grounded in practical decision-making, especially for small businesses trying to grow without wasting time or budget.

This episode leans more foundational than advanced, but that's also what makes it useful. For business owners in e-commerce, local services, or any company trying to generate leads online, Vi lays out a simple framework for thinking about short-term traffic, long-term growth, and the mistakes that tend to drain budgets before a strategy ever has a chance to work.

Watch the Full Episode

Exploring Vi Wickam’s Background in Digital Marketing

Vi Wickam has been in digital marketing since the late 1990s, which gives him a rare long-view perspective on how search has evolved. He built his first website in 1995, got paid to build one in 1997, and has worked through nearly every phase of online marketing since then.

That experience shows up in the way he talks about both Google Ads and SEO. Rather than treating them like isolated tactics, he sees them as part of a much larger system that has changed dramatically, especially over the last two years.

• Vi has worked across hand-coded HTML sites, custom CMS platforms, WordPress, Magento, and Shopify.
• His two biggest focus areas have been e-commerce brands and local service businesses.
• He says the pace of change in search over the last two years has been more dramatic than almost any period since the late 1990s.

One of the more interesting parts of his background is his work on data integration for local service companies. In those businesses, the challenge often is not just buying traffic. It's getting CRMs, lead sources, and ad platforms to communicate clearly enough to make optimization possible.

Comparing Google Ads and SEO at a High Level

Vi sees that Google Ads and SEO solve different problems. Google Ads is the short-term lever, while SEO is the long-term asset.

With Google Ads, you can put money in and potentially see results within weeks if the campaign is set up properly. With SEO, you may not see meaningful traction for months. In some cases, it can take years of compounding effort before the channel becomes a major business driver.

• Google Ads is best viewed as a short-term traffic engine.
• SEO is better understood as a long-term investment in discoverability and trust.
• Most businesses eventually need both, because very few can wait years for SEO alone to pay off.

That distinction matters because too many businesses expect both channels to behave the same way. They do not. Ads can create immediate feedback loops, while SEO demands patience, consistency, and a willingness to build before the payoff is obvious.

Vi also made an important point about sustainability. Paid ads can absolutely become a profitable system, but there's no finish line. Once you stop paying, the traffic stops too. SEO takes longer, but when it works, it can create a stronger foundation over time.

Thinking About the Real Cost of Paid Ads

One of the better tactical takeaways from the episode was Vi’s explanation of break-even math. He warned against looking only at revenue generated from ads, because top-line ROAS can be misleading if margins are thin.

A campaign might appear healthy at a 2x return, but if the business has a 50% to 70% cost structure, that campaign could still be losing money. Before scaling anything, Vi says business owners need to know their actual break-even point and judge ad performance against profit, not vanity metrics.

• A 2x ROAS is not automatically profitable.
• Businesses need to calculate their true break-even point based on margin.
• If the campaign produces strong profit, keep feeding it until returns begin to diminish.

He also shared a useful rule of thumb around impression share. In many cases, he believes advertisers can increase impression share into the 60% to 75% range before seeing a dramatic spike in cost per click or cost per conversion. After that, diminishing returns usually show up fast.

That is a good reminder that scaling is never infinite. Every market has a ceiling, and part of strong media buying is understanding where the profitable opportunity ends.

Building Campaigns Around Intent Instead of Volume

When the conversation shifted into campaign structure, Vi came back repeatedly to one core idea: start with the highest-intent traffic first. In other words, don't begin by chasing broad visibility. Start where buyers are closest to taking action.

For a local plumber, that might mean highly localized plumbing keywords. For an e-commerce business, it may mean product-specific searches and syncing product inventory through Google Merchant Center, so searchers land on the exact product page they want.

• High-intent traffic often converts best, even if volume is lower.
• More specific keywords usually produce fewer leads but stronger conversion rates.
• Broad targeting can create more volume, but it often comes with lower buyer intent.

He also emphasized the importance of message match. Google wants a seamless experience between the search term, the keyword target, the ad copy, and the landing page. The closer those pieces line up, the better the experience for the searcher and the better the quality score for the advertiser.

That idea sounds basic, but it's often ignored. Businesses send traffic to generic pages, target loose keyword sets, and then wonder why campaigns underperform.

Understanding Where Local Service Ads Fit In

One of the more practical parts of the interview was Vi’s explanation of Local Service Ads, or LSAs. These are not the same as traditional Google Ads, and they are only available in specific service categories.

Vi explained that LSAs grew in part because organic local results had become crowded out by large aggregator sites like Angi, HomeAdvisor, and Yelp. Google responded by creating a pay-per-lead format that gives verified local businesses a premium position near the top of the results.

• LSAs are generally available only for certain service-based categories.
• Businesses must go through verification, including licensing and registration checks.
• Unlike traditional ads, LSAs are designed around pay-per-lead rather than pay-per-click.

Vi noted that historically, there were about three to five LSA slots at the top of the page, but newer search layouts and AI summaries may reduce that space to just one to three visible businesses. That is a big shift because fewer spots means fiercer competition for attention.

He also shared a broader prediction about where this may all be headed. As AI-driven booking and concierge systems improve, he expects search platforms to move closer to fully mediated transactions where users ask for a service and the assistant books the provider directly. Whether that arrives quickly or slowly, it's clear that local businesses need to think beyond rankings alone.

Using Paid Ads to Inform SEO Strategy

Another useful theme from the interview was how paid search can sharpen SEO. Since ads provide faster feedback, they can help businesses learn which messaging, offers, and search intent actually produce conversions before investing months into organic content production.

That matters because SEO content is often built around assumptions. Ads let you test demand more quickly, which can reduce the odds of publishing content that brings in traffic but never leads to revenue.

• Paid campaigns can reveal which keywords and offers actually convert.
• Ad data can help shape landing pages, service pages, and future blog content.
• Fast testing is one of the biggest strategic advantages ads have over SEO.

Vi also stressed that small businesses shouldn't try to do everything at once. In his view, many companies fail because they spread limited resources across too many tactics without ever dialing one of them in properly.

That could mean starting with LSAs, starting with traditional Google Ads, or even starting with content, depending on the business. The key is having a focused plan instead of a collection of random marketing activities.

Avoiding the Most Common Mistakes With Google Ads and SEO

The first and most obvious problem was poor management. Vi described a real example involving a wedding videographer who had spent about $10,000 with someone running terrible campaigns that targeted the wrong geography, used a weak keyword strategy, and lacked proper negatives.

That story landed because it captures how expensive bad execution can be. It's not enough to “be on Google Ads”. The setup has to reflect the business, the offer, the geography, and the buyer.

• Bad campaign management can destroy the budget surprisingly fast.
• Negative keywords are essential for controlling waste.
• Geographic targeting mistakes are especially costly for local businesses.

Vi also warned that Google’s matching behavior has grown broader in recent months. Phrase match is wider than it used to be, and exact match can behave more loosely than many advertisers expect. That means more vigilance is required, not less.

On the SEO side, the central mistake is targeting terms that don't convert. Traffic isn't automatically valuable just because it exists. Vi admitted he made this mistake himself years ago by ranking image-driven content for terms that attracted attention but never created customers.

That is a lesson most marketers learn eventually. It's possible to win traffic and still lose the business case.

Setting Better Expectations for Testing and Failure

With Google Ads, Vi expects a campaign to take roughly two to three months to dial in. In that time, he estimates four to six rounds of revisions may be needed before performance becomes consistently solid.

• Vi expects 30% to 50% of early paid traffic to be low quality before optimization.
• Strong campaigns usually improve through repeated revision, not instant perfection.
• Google can change match behavior or campaign dynamics at any time, forcing another round of fixes.

That perspective is useful because many businesses panic too early. They either shut campaigns down before enough testing happens, or they assume underperformance means the channel itself does not work.

The same logic applies to SEO. Not every page will rank. Not every ranking will convert. Some content wins big, while other pieces mainly teach you what not to do next. That doesn't make the process broken. It makes it iterative.

Adapting to AI and Search Behavior Changes

Vi also touched on how much AI has changed the search landscape. He pointed to the launch of ChatGPT as a key turning point and argued that SEO now requires a more human-first approach, even when AI tools are involved in content creation.

In his view, content has to serve people first and machines second. Structure still matters, including headings, schema, alt text, and keyword targeting. However, none of that matters if the content does not genuinely help the person searching.

• Content should be written for humans first, then structured for bots.
• Search behavior is shifting from simple keywords to more decision-oriented queries.
• Businesses need to study what people now ask AI tools, not just what they typed into Google two years ago.

That is one of the most relevant takeaways from the episode. Search is no longer just about getting indexed. It's about being useful in a world where discovery, evaluation, and decision-making are increasingly blended.

Final Thoughts

This conversation with Vi Wickam works best as a practical framework for business owners who want to understand the relationship between Google Ads and SEO without getting lost in advanced jargon. It offers a clear way to think about timing, expectations, risk, and how both channels can support real growth.

The biggest takeaway is that these are not competing strategies so much as complementary ones. Google Ads can help you test, learn, and generate immediate demand, while SEO can build long-term visibility and resilience. If you approach both with realistic expectations, a focus on intent, and a willingness to keep refining, they can work together far better than most businesses realize.

Links & Resources

• Visit Wizard of Ads Online
• Connect with Vi
• Follow and join Vi here
• Watch The Fiddler's performances

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The post How Vi Wickam Sees Google Ads vs. SEO: The 2-to-3-Month Timeline Businesses Should Expect appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week's episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Denise Cruz and I discuss how she went from running a travel blog business that was hit hard by the Helpful Content Update to building a successful travel advisor brand with nearly $2 million in commissionable sales. It's a story about rebound, reinvention, and what can happen when someone takes deep niche expertise and applies it to a service business instead of a content site.

Denise’s journey feels especially relevant because it's not about someone sitting on a wildly untouchable media empire before things changed. She was running relatable, real-world travel websites that had built meaningful traffic and income. When Google’s changes wiped most of that away, she had to make a fast decision about what came next.

Watch the Full Episode

A Relatable Travel Blogging Business Before the Crash

Before the pivot, Denise had built multiple blogs, including two travel sites that were performing well by most independent publisher standards. One of those sites was attracting around 75,000 monthly visitors, while another was in the 50,000 to 60,000 range. Together, they were generating about $6,000 per month, primarily from ad revenue, with some affiliate income also contributing.

The majority of that traffic came from Google, with Pinterest playing a smaller supporting role, which meant the impact of the HCU was swift and painful when rankings and visits started disappearing.

A few key details from Denise’s pre-HCU business:

• She had multiple blogs, not just one site carrying all the load.
• The core monetization model was ad revenue.
• Google was the main traffic source.
• The income decline happened week after week, not all at once.
• By the end, traffic and revenue had fallen to almost nothing.

Why Did This Pivot Happen So Fast?

Denise did not start from zero when her blogs were hit. She had already gone through the process of becoming a travel advisor through a host agency, although she had not yet fully developed that side of the business. At the time, it was more of a backup idea, or perhaps a future opportunity, than something she expected to depend on immediately.

Then the HCU changed the timeline. Instead of treating travel advising as something she might explore someday, Denise suddenly had a reason to move on it right away. She described the shift almost as a reaction to losing her blog income, but what followed was not random. It was a focused application of years of marketing experience, audience understanding, and systems thinking into a business model built around selling expertise directly.

What pushed the transition forward:

• She still had consulting income, which gave her some breathing room.
• She had already joined a host agency.
• She had booked a few trips for friends and family before the pivot.
• She has a deep understanding of online marketing, gained through her blogging and consulting work.
  She saw service as a more stable path than trying to force a broken content model back to life.

When a Website Built for a Service Started Working Almost Immediately

Denise initially thought she might create another content-style site, but this time with stronger trust signals and a clearer business identity. Instead of following her usual SEO process, she built a travel agency website that emphasized who she was, what she offered, and why she was qualified to help clients. Within just a couple of weeks, she started getting leads.

That quick traction became a turning point. It suggested that Google was willing to reward a service-based site centered on real expertise even while her old content business was being decimated, despite that content also being rooted in expertise. 

Denise did not spend that early phase chasing keyword formulas or publishing top-of-funnel listicles. She focused on answering the kinds of questions her actual clients had and creating resources that were useful at the bottom of the funnel. Here's what made the early site different:

• No heavy keyword research process.
• No SEO playbook built around chasing search terms.
• The homepage was clearly structured as a travel agency homepage.
• The content was designed for clients and prospects close to booking.
• The site presented Denise as a professional service provider, not just a publisher.

How EEAT Became a Practical Growth Strategy

Many site owners have heard Google discuss experience, expertise, authority, and trust, but Denise actually used these ideas as a practical blueprint. She said EEAT was one of the few things Google mentioned that felt specific enough to test, so she leaned into it heavily with her new business.

That meant more than writing an author bio. She created a Google Business Profile, listed her services clearly, used a dedicated business phone line, linked her site back to her agency profile, displayed certifications and supplier training, and added testimonials. Initially, some of those testimonials came from people she already knew, but over time, they were replaced by reviews from actual clients who found her through the website.

Signals Denise intentionally built into the business:

• Professional certifications and training badges.
• Agency affiliation and linked profiles.
• Google Business presence.
• Public contact information.
• Client testimonials.
• Service pages explaining how to work with her.
• Scheduling and lead capture tied into a CRM.

The Real Shift Was Moving From Traffic to Client Responsibility

One of the clearest contrasts Denise drew was between publishing content and serving real clients. Writing a blog post is one thing. Booking someone’s vacation, where mistakes can result in thousands of dollars and a family’s compromised experience, creates a significantly different level of responsibility.

That pressure changed how she wrote and how she operated. Her communication became more direct, more structured, and more focused on anticipating questions about policies, cancellations, upgrades, cabin choices, and logistics. Instead of trying to maximize time on page, she was trying to reduce confusion and help customers make good decisions.

How service writing differs from blog writing:

• Clarity mattered more than engagement tricks.
• Policy explanations became essential.
• The goal was informed decisions, not pageviews.
• Content supported a sale and a client relationship.
• Every email and resource had to reduce risk and uncertainty.

Small Traffic, Much Bigger Business Impact

This is where Denise’s story becomes especially useful for content creators who still think in terms of page views. Today, she said her site gets only around 200 to 300 visitors, which is tiny compared to the 75,000 monthly visitors one of her blogs used to get. But those visitors are far more qualified, and many of them are already clients who come back through her email newsletter or through direct relationships.

That comparison highlights one of the biggest lessons from the interview. A service business does not need mass traffic to succeed. It requires the right positioning, an offer that people understand, and a process that guides the right leads toward booking.

What changed about the traffic model:

• Massive traffic volume was no longer the goal.
• Higher intent replaced higher pageviews.
• Existing clients now account for a significant portion of the site traffic.
• Email and referrals matter more than social virality.
• Lead quality became more important than SEO scale.

Systems Became the Growth Engine

Denise repeatedly came back to systems during the interview, and it's easy to see why. She was still doing consulting work when travel leads started coming in, so she needed a way to handle inquiries without manually managing everything. This led to the implementation of CRM, automations, lead tracking, appointment scheduling, and process design encompassing the entire customer journey.

This was not just an efficiency play. It was a quality control mechanism. Denise wanted to ensure that clients had a strong experience and that she was not missing any important details as booking volume increased. 

Over time, she has refined her lead forms, funnels, and follow-up systems, and now she is even working on saying no more effectively by improving lead qualification before prospects ever get on the phone with her. These are the core systems she emphasized:

• CRM setup
• Automated follow-up
• Appointment scheduling
• Lead qualification
• Sales funnel tracking
• Repeatable email workflows
• Referral requests
• Newsletter processes

What Her Sales Funnel Actually Looks Like

For people wondering how this type of business operates day-to-day, Denise provided a useful overview of her process. Most people who contact her already know the type of trip they want, the dates they are targeting, and that they want help from an expert. They are not early-stage browsers. They're close to making a purchase and want confidence that they are making the right choices.

Typically, a lead fills out a form on her website and is immediately prompted to schedule a call. Denise prefers a short phone conversation over a long email back-and-forth because it allows her to qualify the client, answer questions efficiently, and move the booking forward more quickly. From there, she follows up with quotes, reservation details, and manual coordination where needed.

Her typical funnel includes:

• Website inquiry form
• Scheduling a prompt for a discovery call
• Automated follow-up if no call is booked
• A 15-minute conversation to discuss needs and options
• Email quotes and next steps
• Reservation handling
• Ongoing follow-up and support

A Small Email List With Outsized Results

Another standout point from the interview is that Denise is not building her business on social media. She said she doesn't enjoy the constant nature of social platforms, so she has focused instead on capturing leads and maintaining relationships through email. Everyone who reaches out in some way gets funneled into her list, and that list plays a crucial role in generating repeat business and referrals.

Her newsletters are sent out a couple of times a month, when possible, and focus on relevant travel updates, supplier news, and useful client information, rather than non-stop promotions or deal-chasing. That fits her positioning. She isn't trying to attract bargain hunters. She is building a reputation as a trusted advisor, especially in the cruise industry, and using email to stay top of mind.

What she sends in an email:

• Travel rule updates
• Supplier news clients need to know
• Selected special rates when relevant
• Personal business updates
• Information that helps clients prepare for future trips

The Numbers Behind the Turnaround

The business results are substantial. Denise shared that her commissionable sales were approximately $650,000 in one year, then jumped to $1.6 million the following year. She is now aiming to maintain or exceed that level while increasing the average value of each booking.

She also said she is starting to see the 80/20 rule take shape in the business, with a smaller percentage of high-value clients generating a large share of revenue. Some of those clients return for multiple trips and also bring friends and family with them, creating a compounding effect on referrals and repeat bookings. Denise estimated that around 30% of new clients are referral-based in some way, even if they first appear as part of a larger group or family trip.

The Bigger Takeaway for Niche Site Owners

What makes Denise’s experience so compelling is the underlying question it raises for anyone affected by major search changes. If you have built real expertise through your content, could that expertise become the foundation of a service business? In her case, the answer was clearly yes.

That doesn't mean every blogger should become a consultant, advisor, or agency owner tomorrow. Denise was candid that this kind of work involves significantly more client interaction, greater responsibility, and increased operational complexity than publishing content. 

Denise demonstrated that combining niche authority with robust systems and a clear offer creates a resilient business. This approach yields a company that is significantly more valuable than the original website alone.

Final Thoughts

Denise Cruz’s journey is inspiring because it's grounded in reality. She lost something meaningful, moved quickly, and built something stronger by using the same subject matter expertise in a different business model.

For niche site owners, this interview is a reminder that traffic is not the only asset you have built. Trust, knowledge, positioning, and audience understanding can all be repurposed into services that solve real problems for real customers.

And in Denise’s case, that shift led from a $6,000-a-month blogging business that got crushed by the HCU to a travel advisory business doing nearly $2 million in commissionable sales within just a few years. That's not just a comeback story. It's a blueprint worth paying attention to.

Links & Resources

• Learn more about Denise

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The post How Denise Cruz Turned a $6,000-a-Month Travel Blog Into a $1.6 Million Travel Business appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Corey Ganim and I discuss how to think about AI automation in a way that actually leads to ROI. This topic has a particular focus on AI agents, reusable “skills”, and why tools like Claude Cowork are changing what automation looks like day to day.

Corey runs Return My Time, and he comes at this topic from a builder’s perspective, not a buzzword perspective. He also knows our audience is already past the “what is ChatGPT?” stage, so we spent the bulk of the conversation in the weeds on frameworks, execution, and practical examples.

Watch the Full Episode

Why Most AI Experiments Never Turn Into ROI

Corey started by calling out something most of us have felt: there are too many tools, too much noise, and too many “cool demos” that never translate into better business outcomes. His fix is to stop judging AI by how impressive it looks and start judging it by what it improves in your business.

That leads into his “three levers of ROI” framework, which is a simple filter you can apply before you spend a minute setting anything up. If a tool, agent, or workflow does not pull at least one of these levers, Corey’s view is that it is not worth your time.

• Effectiveness: Does this help you make more money?
• Efficiency: Does this save meaningful time?
• Quality: Does this improve the product or customer experience?

A Concrete Example of “Effectiveness” ROI

A lot of business owners start with efficiency, because saving time is the most obvious win. Corey agrees that basic chatbot use can help, but he thinks the bigger upside shows up when AI helps you capture revenue you would otherwise miss.

He shared an example of an AI “speed to lead” agent that responds to inbound leads quickly with a personalized response. In the interview, he referenced a stat that you are “21 times more likely” to land a customer if you respond within 60 seconds versus an hour or two. This is exactly the kind of leverage that can impact revenue, not just workload.

• Local service businesses are especially sensitive to response time because shoppers often contact multiple providers.
• “Speed to lead” workflows can be implemented without replacing your full sales process; they just remove the delay.
• If you already buy leads or run paid ads, a faster response improves the economics of what you are already spending.

Where to Start: Audit, Optimize, Automate

After you decide what outcomes matter, the next problem is figuring out what to automate first. This is where Corey introduced his AOA framework: audit, optimize, automate, in that order.

His point was that most people jump straight to automation because they are frustrated with a task, but that can lock in a bloated process. If you automate a 12-step workflow that could be reduced to 6 steps, you have not really improved the system; you have just buried inefficiency under automation.

• Audit: Identify what you are actually spending time on (calendar + to-do list is a good starting source of truth).
• Optimize: Reduce steps, remove waste, simplify handoffs, clarify what “done” looks like.
• Automate: Only after the process is cleaner should you hand it to an agent or automation tool.

Using AI to Optimize Before You Automate

One of the more useful parts of this conversation was the idea that AI can help with the optimization step, not just the automation step. Many of us assume we need to be the expert who redesigns a workflow, but Corey’s view is that AI is often more objective than we are because it has no attachment to “how we’ve always done it”.

He described a practical way to do it: brain dump your current process in plain language, let the AI propose a slimmer version, and then take that optimized version forward into automation. Corey used his own weekly Costco grocery ordering as an example, where optimization cut out steps before he handed the workflow to an agent.

• A small reduction in steps can matter more than it sounds, because recurring tasks compound over weeks.
• Voice-to-text can make “process capture” faster than typing when you are documenting a workflow.
• Optimization is also where you clarify constraints, like what inputs are required and what the output format should be.

Claude Cowork: What It Is and Why It Feels Different

Claude Cowork represents a shift from “AI answers questions” to “AI does work”. Corey framed it in a memorable way: a normal chatbot is reactive, while an agent is more like a chatbot with hands that can interact with your tools.

He explained that Cowork can connect to tools like email, Google Drive, CRMs, and task managers, then perform actions inside them. The interface still looks like a chat, but the capabilities change because it can execute real tasks and run scheduled workflows.

• Tool connections are where a lot of value appears, because context no longer lives only inside the chat window.
• Scheduling matters because it turns AI from “something you remember to use” into “something that shows up on time”.
• Execution plans are useful because they force structure before an agent starts clicking around in your systems.

A Practical Cowork Use Case: Better Sales Calls With Less Prep

One example Corey gave was for a friend running a real estate coaching business with a high-ticket offer (he mentioned a $13K ticket size). That friend was taking 5-7 sales calls per day and spending 10-15 minutes before each call scrolling through CRM history to remember context.

Corey’s recommendation was to connect Cowork to the CRM and have it automatically send a summary a few minutes before each call, including context from prior conversations and conversation starters. The outcome is that instead of preparing 10-15 minutes ahead, you can prepare in seconds with a glance at a briefing message.

• This kind of workflow scales well to a team because it standardizes preparation across multiple reps.
• The improvement is not only time savings, but it can also reduce “cold start” awkwardness at the beginning of calls.
• Summaries can include key constraints like budget, timeline, and objections that you want top-of-mind.

Agents vs Skills: The Missing Link for People Who Feel Stuck

A big theme of the episode was why many savvy AI users still feel like they're not getting the promised time savings. You can be good at prompting and still get trapped in a loop: paste an email, rewrite it, shorten it, change tone, paste again, and eventually it feels like you could have written it yourself.

Corey answers that skills are what make AI reusable and consistent. In his framing, the agent is the doer, while the skill is the recipe the agent follows for a specific task, step by step, in the same way every time.

• Skills reduce “prompt drift” because you are not reinventing the instructions on every run.
• Skills can be shared across tools because the concept is spreading across the AI ecosystem.
• The skill approach is especially useful for any work you do weekly or daily, because repetition is where the ROI shows up.

The Foundational Skill Corey Recommends Everyone Build First

If Corey could give only one next step, it was this: build your brand voice skill. He argued that it is the foundation beneath many other skills, because it makes outputs consistently sound like you without repeated back-and-forth editing.

He also said it's not complicated to set up, and that he built his in about 20 minutes by giving examples of his writing, plus transcripts that show how he speaks. From there, he described using Claude’s skill-building capability to create and install the skill, so it becomes the default “voice layer” across future work.

• Inputs that help a brand voice skill: writing samples, email examples, podcast transcripts, and a short list of “words I avoid”.
• A brand voice skill is not limited to marketing. It also improves internal communication, like team updates and SOP drafts.
• Once you have this skill, you can pair it with other skills so the entire system stays consistent.

High-Impact Skills Most Business Owners Can Use Immediately

After we dug into the concept, I asked Corey for examples of skills that are widely applicable. He mentioned brand voice first, then pointed to common places where business owners spend time and attention: email, daily planning, and sales-call context.

What stood out to me is that none of these are “flashy automations”. They are the kind of recurring, slightly annoying tasks that quietly eat hours each week, which makes them perfect targets for skill-based automation.

• Email drafting skill: A default format and tone so routine messages come out usable immediately.
• Daily brief skill: A scheduled morning summary of calendar items and key messages to handle.
• Sales call prep skill: A pre-call “battle card” pulled from CRM history and external context like a LinkedIn summary.

Quality Assurance: How to Trust Outputs Without Babysitting Them

One pushback people have is, “How do I make sure this doesn’t produce garbage?” Corey’s approach was to treat skills like software: version them, test them, and refine until you trust them.

He said V1 is rarely perfect, but it is often 80% of the way there, and then V2, V3, or V4 is where it becomes dependable. The key is to bake QA into the skill creation process by running it, reviewing the output, and adjusting the instructions until the output format and quality match what you need.

• Examples of QA tweaks include changing output format (Word doc vs Excel), tightening structure, or adding required sections.
• Testing is fastest when you use realistic inputs, not idealized examples.
• Once a skill is stable, you typically only update it when requirements change.

What “At Scale” Can Actually Look Like in a Week

Corey shared a personal metric that helps make this real. He described using Todoist to identify recurring tasks, then challenging himself to turn those tasks into skills so he would not have to do them manually again.

After about two and a half months of doing this, he said he had equipped his AI agent with around 42 skills. The important part was not just the number, but the idea that each new skill represents a task he can now offload fully, rather than partially.

• This is a compounding system, as each new skill reduces future workload and increases future capacity.
• Recurring tasks are the sweet spot because they repay the setup time over and over.
• A “skills inventory” can become a playbook you can hand to future hires or contractors.

Content Automation That Still Performs: Corey’s X Article Example

Corey also gave a performance example that caught my attention, because it connects automation to real outcomes. He described building an “X article writer” skill that generates an 800-1200-word article in his voice, plus multiple headline and thumbnail options, turning a two-hour process into about 10-15 minutes.

Even more interesting, he said an article he posted the day before the interview was fully AI-generated with no edits and reached 3.6 million views about 36 hours after posting. That is a strong reminder that “automated” doesn't automatically mean “low quality”, especially when skills and voice constraints are handled well.

• If a platform is rewarding a format, like long-form articles, automation can help you publish consistently enough to benefit.
• Multiple headline variations matter because titles are often the highest leverage variable in content performance.
• The best use cases usually combine research, structure, and brand voice, rather than relying on raw generation alone.

Corey’s Offer and an ROI Snapshot

Corey briefly outlined what ReturnMyTime.com does today, including an “AI tools assessment” where he interviews a business owner, identifies bottlenecks, and prescribes off-the-shelf tools that can save time. He described a target of buying back 5-10 hours per week, with a refund guarantee if they cannot find at least five hours per week in savings.

He also shared an average cost snapshot: about $42 per month in tools paired with roughly six hours saved per week, which he framed as a simple “what is your time worth?” calculation. Whether someone buys help or does it solo, the takeaway is that small monthly tool costs can be trivial compared to the value of reclaimed hours.

• He pointed listeners to a short “AI literacy” quiz at returnmytime.com/quiz that recommends resources based on your level.
• The assessment model is interesting because it prioritizes off-the-shelf adoption, not custom engineering from day one.
• Time-saving estimates become more believable when they are tied to specific workflows, not vague “AI will help”.

Final Thoughts

The big win from this episode is the shift from “using AI” to building an AI operating system for your business. Corey’s frameworks keep you focused on outcomes first, then guide you through a sensible build order so you do not automate chaos.

If you're overwhelmed, the simplest move is the one Corey kept repeating: build the brand voice skill first, then start converting your recurring tasks into skills one by one. When you approach AI this way, you are not chasing tools; you are steadily removing work from your plate and replacing it with reusable systems.

Links & Resources

• Take the quiz to get your free AI action plan
• Learn more about Return My Time
• Connect with Corey

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The post How Corey Ganim Buys Back 5-10 Hours a Week Using AI Agents and Skills appeared first on Niche Pursuits.

In this week’s episode of the Niche Pursuits podcast, Amy Aitman and I discuss what happens when a content portfolio gets crushed by Google’s Helpful Content Update and how her team rebuilt their marketing around visibility across Reddit, YouTube, and third-party mentions. As the COO of Venture 4th Media and Director of Discovery & Delivery for ScaleVisible, Amy has been on the front lines of the post-HCU shakeup, including the hard decisions that followed when traffic and revenue dropped.

We talk through what changed, why Reddit surged in visibility, and what a “visibility campaign” can look like when you pair community participation with YouTube and editorial coverage. If you’re trying to reduce platform risk and show up where buyers are researching, this episode offers a clear way to think about visibility beyond rankings alone.

Watch the Full Episode

The HCU Hit: When “Helpful” Felt Punitive

Amy opened by describing the HCU as a gut punch, partly because her team had spent years improving content quality and leaning hard into “written by humans, for humans”. In past updates, they could shift resources toward sites that were rising while diagnosing sites that were falling, but this time it wasn’t that kind of roller coaster. Her takeaway was blunt: if a site looked like a content site, it got hammered, and the usual recovery path did not show up.

The operational fallout was serious. Amy said they had to stop publishing articles for a period, which forced layoffs, including contractors and team members. She also described the emotional side of it, questioning whether she even had a place in the industry after seeing respected niche sites lose traffic and revenue in the same wave.

What that moment forced them to confront:

• Their revenue relied on a “one-legged stool” built on Google traffic.
• Traffic loss quickly becomes a staffing problem, not just a ranking problem.
• “Make better content” stopped being a dependable fix.
• A portfolio strategy did not protect them when the pattern was broad.

The Pivot Question: If Traffic Is the Bottleneck, Where Do You Go?

When you lose Google traffic, many fallback ideas sound good in theory and disappoint in practice. Amy mentioned testing a mix of channels and tactics, including newsletters and other distribution plays, but the same issue kept returning: it’s hard to build anything if you have no consistent attention coming in at the top. Email is powerful, but list growth is tough without a steady source of new eyeballs.

Then they looked at the SERPs and saw the obvious trend: Reddit was everywhere. At first, that visibility irritated her because their editorial process prioritized expertise, while Reddit posts might come from anonymous users. But the reality was right there on the screen, and Amy’s team decided to treat it like a signal rather than a grievance.

Early experiments they tried before Reddit became a core focus:

• Email marketing and newsletters as a traffic hedge.
• Rediscovering older distribution tactics that cycled back into fashion.
• Testing Reddit as a traffic source by sharing links and building subreddits.
• Looking for repeatable patterns instead of one-off spikes.

Why Reddit Became the Center of the Conversation

A big point Amy made is that “everyone is on Reddit” now, whether they think they are or not, because Reddit shows up in search results constantly. She gave a simple example: her husband sends her screenshots from Reddit even though he doesn’t maintain a Reddit account. That’s important because it highlights how Reddit content travels outside Reddit through search, screenshots, and citations.

Amy also framed Reddit as a place where brands can learn what their audience says when they are not on a brand-controlled page. Done well, it’s not just promotion. It’s market research, customer language, objections, competitor comparisons, and sentiment all in one messy place.

Ways brands use Reddit without treating it like an ad channel:

• Finding recurring questions that customer support hears too late.
• Spotting competitors that show up in peer recommendations.
• Seeing what features people praise and what features trigger complaints.
• Collecting phrasing that customers use when they describe the problem.
• Identifying which subreddits skew negative versus collaborative.

What Not to Do on Reddit

Amy’s strongest warning was aimed at the “brand mention” rush. She talked about tools that highlight Reddit threads cited in AI responses and then prompt marketers to jump into those threads and drop a mention. Her concern is that this can backfire quickly because citations alone do not tell you whether the sentiment is positive, negative, or tied to a problem you don’t want highlighted.

She also stressed that Reddit is not one community. Each subreddit is moderated by people who set their own standards, and those moderators can remove posts, block accounts, or change rules without warning. So if a marketer barges in with obvious promotional behavior, it can create damage that outlasts the post itself.

Common mistakes that get brands dragged:

• Flooding threads with repeated product mentions.
• Ignoring subreddit rules and posting formats.
• Treating every subreddit like a place for the same pitch.
• Posting like a corporate account instead of a participant.
• Chasing short-term attention instead of consistency.

The Two Things Amy Said to Do Right Away

Amy shared two immediate steps that are simple and that many brands still skip.

First, she recommended creating your branded subreddit as soon as possible. Her reasoning is that anyone can create a subreddit with your brand name, and you do not want to discover later that your name is tied to a community you do not control.

Second, she advised brands to spend the early months listening and participating without trying to sell. That means reading, commenting, and learning the norms before you try to steer any conversation. If you treat that early phase like a sprint, you will look like a marketer, and Reddit users tend to sniff that out fast.

What “listen first” can look like week to week:

• Track the questions that repeat across threads.
• Note the top objections that prevent purchase.
• Save examples of posts that the community rewards.
• Build a list of subreddits where your category comes up naturally.
• Draft internal guidelines for tone, disclosure, and response timing.

The Shift From Traffic to Visibility

One of the more useful parts of the interview was Amy’s reframing of the goal. Rather than treating Reddit as a replacement for Google traffic, she talked about it as part of a visibility strategy that influences what people see in search and AI tools.

She described the current search environment as less “winner takes all” and more “consensus driven”. In the old model, rankings mattered most, and being on page two was a punchline. In the current model, multiple sources can shape the answer a user sees. Those sources can include Reddit threads, videos, reviews, and third-party write-ups.

Visibility signals Amy emphasized beyond raw clicks:

• How your brand appears in “reviews” and “is it legit” searches.
• Whether AI summaries recommend you or skip you.
• What third parties say about you compared to your own site claims.
• Whether old negative threads still dominate the first page.
• How often competitors show up in the same comparison searches.

How They Check Visibility Without Getting Lost in Tools

Amy mentioned that there are plenty of visibility tools, but her team still does manual checks. She described using incognito search, VPN locations, and screenshots of results for key queries tied to user journeys. That process helps them see what’s present, what’s missing, and what the sentiment looks like in context.

She also used two memorable labels for what shows up in these audits. Some brands are “ghosts”, meaning they barely appear in AI summaries even if they are known elsewhere. Others are “villains”, meaning an old complaint or negative thread becomes the thing AI tools keep repeating because it’s the most cited or visible source.

Examples of queries worth auditing for many brands:

• “[brand] reviews”
• “[brand] legit”
• “[brand] vs [competitor]”
• “best [category] for [use case]”
• “[category] alternatives”

The Three-Legged Stool: Reddit, YouTube, and Third-Party Editorial

Amy’s core framework was the “three-legged stool,” built on:

• Reddit participation and community presence
• YouTube content that shows products and opinions from creators.
• Third-party editorial mentions that help shape consensus.

She said their team has built more than 50 YouTube channels, and she’s seeing YouTube show up prominently for “best of”, comparisons, and alternatives. The point is not that every brand needs 50 channels; it's that YouTube and Reddit are now highly visible surfaces in the same search journeys that used to be dominated by publisher articles alone.

Why these three legs work together:

• Reddit captures candid peer-to-peer discussion and objections.
• YouTube captures demonstrations, reviews, and multimodal content that AI can cite.
• Third-party editorial gives non-brand validation that reads differently from copy.
• Multiple independent sources create repeat exposure across queries.
• You reduce dependence on one platform’s rules and ranking shifts.

What a Visibility Campaign Can Look Like in Plain Terms

Amy laid out a simple example of how they approach campaigns. A sample content set for one product category:

• One independent review article.
• One “alternatives to” article that names competitors fairly.
• One “best of” article tied to a specific use case.
• One review video and one comparison video.
• A branded subreddit with ongoing discussion prompts and support threads.

Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a message that matters: the old model of publishing articles and waiting for Google is no longer a stable business foundation for many site owners. Amy reframes the goal as visibility and consensus across multiple surfaces, with Reddit as a key piece rather than a gimmick.

If you’ve been staring at rankings and wondering why the recovery never comes, this conversation is a reminder to shift the question from “How do I get traffic back?” to “Where is my brand being shaped, and how do I show up there with consistency?”.

Links & Resources

• Connect with Amy
• Learn more about ScaleVisible
• Discover how ReddVisible can help
• Watch Amy's last interview with us

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The post How Amy Aitman Breaks Down the “Three-Legged Stool”: 3 Channels, 1 Visibility Goal appeared first on Niche Pursuits.