(Note if you have recently crossed this border and have some additional information on the costs & process etc. please help us to keep this post up to date and leave a comment in our forum Sudan Wadi Halfa, Egypt Abu Simbel, Qustul Border Crossing or Overland Facebook Group with the details)

The Egypt/Sudan border is known to be a difficult border crossing, taking all day and for helpers, customs and other officials that will fleece you for everything you have, it’s hard to decide “do I get a helper or not?”.

Well the first thing to do, is do yourself the biggest favour and DO NOT pre book a helper, some people have paid up to $650 to cross this border. Totally unnecessary and it is daylight robbery!!

Once at the border, if you are stuck, someone will help and point you in the right direction!!

Known Common Scams

• Leaving Egypt they will tell you your licence plates do not match, i.e front and back or that they do not match your documents – Take a photo of your plates and documents before entering the border.
• They will say your COMESA insurance is not valid for Egypt and requires additional insurance – This is not true, hold your ground if you can… Others have reported it being accepted. The alternative is to pay for more insurance which will cost between $20 to $40.

Costs North Bound

• Leaving Sudan, you should be paying around $50 for two people & one 4×4 (note entering in Sudan going North no fees are paid Ethiopia, Metema / Gallabat, Sudan Border Crossing)
• Entering Egypt, the maximum you should be paying for insurance, customs, health, plates (excluding visa costs) is $160 for two people & one 4×4.

Costs South Bound

• Leaving Egypt, you should be looking to pay less as you will not be paying for insurance, plates, health, and a much smaller Customs fee etc. so probably no more than $50, *Note you need a stamp from the traffic court in Aswan before heading to Abu Simbel.
• Entering Sudan at the border, you have to pay a processing fee to the government and to pay for the border itself (note heading north into Sudan, no fees are paid) Max cost should be $50 for two people & one 4×4, however people appear to be paying significantly more than this i.e. $400 odd whilst using a helper… We are unable to verify the exact costs of entering Sudan from Egypt, but one helper did confirm the costs stated below look correct.

Helpers

If you do decide to use a helper, ensure the following:

• You agree a fee for their services up front
• Run through the expected costs, write them down, compare them to others costs
• Pay all the costs yourself and obtain receipts for each fee

Egypt –   Kamal & Mohammed – According to other reports, they charge on top of the official fee anywhere between $50 & $150, they will add mark up to the official costs. Kamal has quoted EG£1640/ $210 plus an additional $50 for him. 4 Wheel Nomads reported that they paid in total EG£1640 in total for his services and official fees.

Sudan – Mazar – On the Sudan side it seems that customs will direct you to Mazar if he is there. He is not actually that bad, he did help us a little, he did not ask for any money but we believe the $10 customs fee goes to him, which was fine for us..

But we are aware that a few people recently have paid a lot to cross, paying anywhere up to $650 to cross both boders with helpers.

Also note these guys go to the border every day, you are doing them a favour driving them to the border, not the other way round!!

Timings – Heading North

It’s important to be at the border as soon as it opens, normally at 9am, we arrived at 6:45am L (did not open until 9:40am for us) there are many others crossing with carnets, and they will all be dealt with first.

Note that the border is on lunch from around 12 noon, at this time everything will stop and the gates will shut, so even if you have completed your paperwork, you will not be able to leave.

Due to the time it takes to clear the Egyptian side, you really need to be there by 12 noon (11am Egyptian time), we arrived at around noon and did not leave until just after 4pm around 30 minutes after they started to leave and close the offices.

The last ferry to Abu Simbel can leave at any time from 4pm to around 4:30pm, if you miss the last boat you are stuck for the evening!! If you see a long queue of trucks, just drive past them and straight to the front of the queue.

Police Escort Aswan to Abu Simbel

It is advised that tourists join the police convoy that runs in both directions from Aswan to Abu Simbel. We joined the convoy but found that just after leaving it dispersed and we were on our own again, the convoy drives fast, between 90 and 120kmph.

On route, there are several police check points where they do take a note of your number plate.

Others have reported driving this route without any problems independently.

Convoy Times

Aswan – From the obelisk at 4am & 11am
Abu Simbel – From the Abu Simbel Temple car park at 10am and 4pm.

Sudan Border

Leaving Sudan

1. Enter through the gate on your left
2. Park in front of the cafeteria
3. Go to immigration: There are several steps
   • Counter 1 – Give them your passport, they will partially fill in a white form and then give it to you to complete.
   • Counter 2 – Give them the completed form(s) and processing fees of 50pp and 100 for the vehicle
   • Counter 3 – Get the receipt for your payments
   • Counter 4 – Pay the 70pp government fee and obtain a receipt
   • Counter 5 – Complete the blue exit form and have your passports stamped
4. Go to the police office and tell them that you are leaving Sudan to Egypt, give the guy at the photocopier the following: (they will make three copies, they will keep one and return two to you for Customs and the border gate) – Fee for police is 120 + 20 for copies
   • All passports
   • Driving licence
   • Carnet / Carnet Stamp
   • Vehicle registration (both sides)
   • Comesa Insurance
   • TIP / Customs document given to you when entering the country
5. Take these to customs – Here you will most likely be told you need Mazar, if not then give these guys all the documents, they should stamp your Carnet and fill out a form which is attached to the portion of the Carnet they keep. People have reported paying Mazar $10 for this service when he helps out. Customs fee is 110 to leave and 160 to enter.
6. Go to the gate, and show them your passports and Carnet and leave. Note they may search your vehicle and place customs stickers on everything, any problems just say Mazar said it was ok to go…

Total Costs North: sd£590 / $53
Total Costs South: sd£500 / $45 *Estimated

Entering Egypt

1. On arrival at the gate you will be stopped and asked to pay an entrance and exit fee, for a 4×4 and two people it cost us in total EG£150, they may also ask you for a health or quarantine fee, people have been charged anywhere between EG£16 – EG£30 each. They may also ask to see your yellow fever vaccination certificates. For entrance and exit fees they will give you several receipts, you will also be given a receipt for health / quarantine.
2. If you need Egyptian pounds and have USD, you can change them in the bank.
3. Park before the red cones, at this point if there are two or more of you, it would be best to let one of you deal with inspections / x-raying and the other to jump to step 4 (immigration) & 5 (Photocopies) as this will save quite a lot of time. Customs will want you to put all of your gear through the x-ray machine, we tried to avoid this so it may be best to grab one of the customs guys, start opening boxes and showing him the contents, hopefully they will then just choose a couple of items to go through the machine. You will have to leave all scanned items on the other side of the red cones and drive your bike/vehicle around the cones before loading them back in.
4. If you already have a visa, fill in the entry card and give immigration your passports, they will take 5-10minutes checking/processing your details.
5. Once you have your passport stamped, you can go to the photocopy office, copy the following for customs:
   • Passport & Visa / Stamp
   • Carnet
   • Vehicle Registration certificate
   • Driving licence
6. Customs – Give them your carnet, passport and the photocopies. They will stamp the carnet and complete a form in Arabic (TIP), ensure you tell them how long you want to be in Egypt. i.e. 2-3 months, as this is stated on the form. They will charge a customs fee of EG£522 to leave.
7. Go to office next door and make your payment, return to the customs office with the receipt.
8. Get Insurance (If required). EG£380 for two months for a 4×4. Before going to step 9 return to the copy shop and get 4 copies of the following: Make sure you put all the copies in one of the card folders by the copier. They may charge you EG£30 for copies and the folder.
   • Passport & Visa / Stamp
   • Carnet
   • Vehicle Registration certificate
   • Driving licence
   • The Arabic form completed by customs (TIP)
   • Insurance – Comesa or other
9. Drive around to the office on the other side of the buildings to register your vehicle and obtain licence plates, Costs for a 4×4 EG£55. They will check through your forms, and then complete a document in Arabic, you will need to run back to the copier shop and take 3 copies of this, and return it back to them. *It’s important to make sure your plates are valid for the total time you wish to spend in Egypt, others have reported only getting a couple of weeks and were required to extend them or pay a small fine on leaving the country.
10. They will then take you to the office next door for final approval.
11. Attach your number plates (Make sure you have a screwdriver and some self-tapping screws or double sided sticking pads, duct tape or nylon ties to secure the plates)
12. Go to the gate, they will check some of your paperwork and head to the ferry to take you to Abu Simbel. EG£100 for a 4×4, EG50 for a motorbike.

Total Costs North: EG£1267 / $162
Total Costs South: EG£200 / $25

*Note they did not accept our COMESA insurance and should have done, this cost EG£380 of the amount above. Others have reported that it was accepted for them.

Detailed Costs

2 x people 1 4×4

North Bound

Leaving Sudan

Police £120 + £20 for copies Total                                               140
Departure fee government 70 pp total                                         140
Other processing fee £50 pp total                                                100
Car fee £100                                                                                100
normally an extra 50 per car is due, we did not pay this..
Customs fee                                                                                 110
Total                                                                                            590
USD @ 11                                                                                    $52

Entering Egypt

Gate Fee                                                                                      150
Health fee                                                                                       60
Customs                                                                                       522
Licence plates                                                                               55
Insurance (2 Months)                                                                   380
Ferry to Abu Simbel                                                                     100
Total                                                                                           1267
USD @ 7.78                                                                                $162

South Bound

South bound costs have been estimated from information provided by others, and one of the helpers in Sudan (Mazar) also looked over the costs.

Leaving Egypt

Gate Fee                                                                                       150
Health fee                                                                                      N/a
Customs                                                                                        50?
Licence plates                                                                               N/a
Insurance (2 Months)                                                                    N/a
Ferry to Abu Simbel                                                                      100
Total                                                                                             200
USD @ 7.78                                                                                  $25

*Estimated Costs

Entering Sudan

Police £120 + £20 for copies Total                                              140
Departure fee government 70 pp total                                         N/a
Other processing fee £50 pp total                                               100
Car fee £100                                                                               100
Customs fee                                                                                160
Total                                                                                            500
USD @ 11                                                                                    $45

*Note you may also have to pay 385SD per person for Alien registration. Some people have reported Travel and photo permits are not required anymore, however we were asked for them several times.. They are free going north… not sure about on the border going south.

Contact details of Helpers:

Kamal kamalaswanegy@yahoo.com
Mazar mazarhalfa@gmail.com

References to people who have crossed this border

• 4 Wheel Nomads  http://4-wheel-nomads.de/?p=4050
• Africa with Autism https://www.facebook.com/Africa-With-Autism-998778493470706/?fref=ts
• Abseitsreisen  http://www.abseitsreisen.de/blog/lander-informationen/grenze-sudan-aegypten/

Other References

• Ethiopia, Metema / Gallabat, Sudan Border Crossing 
• Visas in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia for Sudan and Egypt
• Visas in Nairobi, Kenya for Ethiopia, Sudan and Egypt
• Overland Birds

Updates can be found in our Overland Facebook Group or Forum – Overland Border Crossings

*The information above (text and pictures) may not be used commercially in any way without prior written permission.

In December 2015, there has been frequent fighting between local tribes along the road, at times this has led to the road being closed in both directions for up to a week or more, or the requirement to travel with military/police escorts.

We went through on the first day that the road was reopened; despite being told by the police commissioner that we were ok to go through, the local police at the first turning told us otherwise and tried to turn us away. So make sure you do check the current road conditions with the police HQ.

The road is 198km from Gonder to Gallbat and generally in good condition with a few potholes.

We left at around 7:30 and arrived at 10:30, taking about 3 hours in total, we were driving fast, and there was little other traffic on the road at the time.

More information on this, and the alternative border can be read here: Overland FB Group & here Ethiopia Gonder to Metema Road / Sudan Border – Fighting

Border Crossing

Leaving Ethiopia

1. Go to customs on the right hand side of the road, there are several offices in container like structures, walk down the middle and take the first door on your left.
2. Have your Carnet and TIP for electoral goods stamped out / cancelled, they will then check your VIN and engine number.
3. Drive through the rope barrier and park in front of immigration on your left, they will take your photo and finger print you before stamping your passport.
4. Next drive towards Sudan, there will be a check point where they will want to see your Carnet and passports.
5. You are then free to go to Sudanese Immigration

In total it took us an hour to clear customs and immigration, (there were 1 x 4×4 and 2 Motorcycles, 5 x people), there was no-one else exiting or entering at the time.

Entering Sudan

1. Go to immigration, the first building on your left, down the embankment
2. They will check your passport and give you a form to complete
3. They will take the completed form and your passport, about 5-10 minutes later you are free to go
4. *Note we had COMESA insurance for Sudan
5. Next go to customs, several buildings up, with flags…
6. Enter the building and find a customs officer, they will take your Carnet and passport.
7. Once processed they will return your passport, stamped carnet and a TIP with a nil value on it.
8. They may search your vehicle (ensure you have no Alcohol)
9. A few kms up the road there will be a check point where they will want to see your carnet, the TIP and passports.

*Keep the documents to hand as many of the police check points will request to view them.

Customs had issues with their computers, in total it took us 1 hour 20 minutes to clear the Sudan border.

Registering as an Alien

Upon arrival in Sudan, any foreign visitor is required to register as an Alien at the Aliens registration office within 3 days.

There are several places within the country where you can register, including a couple of places in Khartoum and at the airport.

We had heard that it was only possible to register at the airport on a Friday when the office in downtown Khartoum is closed.

However, we had no problems registering on a Thursday. Go into the departures area of the international airport, and ask someone to show you where the office is.

You will need

• The cost is 385SD pounds per person
• One passport photo
• Copy of Visa & Passport

They will then staple the registration card into your passport.

Travel & Photo permit

We have read that if you plan to travel around the country and take photos, you are required to obtain a Travel & Photo permit.

We had the police check the permit four times whilst driving through the country, once we gave them a copy, they would let us go straight away…

You can obtain the permit at the Ministry of Tourism and Wildlife half way down Al-Mashtal street on the right hand side if you are coming from the airport GPS 15.580328, 32.566607

• You will need
• One passport photo
• Copy of Visa & Passport
• Free

They will provide you with an A4 stamped permit with your photo on

You should obtain photocopies of the following for police check points

• Photo page of your passport
• Alien registration and Sudan Visa
• Travel and photo permit

Road Conditions

Gallabat to Gedaref

The road from Gallabat to Gedaref (157km) is potholed quite badly, Motorcycles may find it easy to avoid the potholes, however in a 4×4, it’s very hard to keep the speed up without hitting a few of them. There are a few stretches of new road, but generally it’s not a great road.

On route you will also pass a number of check points, sometime they stop you, sometimes they don’t, they may be customs, police or army, and might ask for either your passports or carnet. Be friendly and hand them over and they will let you move on quickly. Note some of these people are in plain clothes and do not have uniforms.

It took us 2 hours, driving quite fast.

Gedaref to Wad Medani

The road is tarred all the way (205km), not new, and quite a bit of traffic.  2 hours 30 minutes

Accommodation at the couple of hotels we tried was very expensive, $70usd (although others have negotiated down to $50)… we moved on…

Gedaref to Khartoum

The road is tarred but it is not new (185km), it has some wear and is quite bumpy in places. 2 Hours 30 minutes (at night)

Khartoum to Meroe to Atbara

Tarred road (220km) to Meroe Pyramids 3 Hours 30 Minutes.  96km further to Atbara, 1 hour 10 minutes. The road is not new, it took us a while to get out of town. Once on the open road you can increase your speed, however there are quite a lot of trucks using this route.

In Atbara, there are quite a few hotels costing between $10 and $40.. and a good pizza place!! At the Meroe Pyramids there is a place to wild camp.

Atbara, Karima, Dongola to Wadi Halfa

We were unsure of the state of this road, it was a nice surprise to be on brand new tar all the way!! To Karima 352km 3 Hours,  To Dongola 175km 1 Hour 40minutes, To Wadi Halfa 395km

Accommodation in Wadi Halfa is quite dire… but cheap..

Fuel

Fuel is significantly cheaper in Sudan than Ethiopia (Dec 2015 Petrol 5.44  Diesel 3.40) , the first fuel station selling petrol was just after the first check point (2-3km), they did not have diesel at the time, the next petrol station was around 100km further.

Mobile and Internet

You can obtain a sim card easily at any phone store, just show them your passport, complete a from and you are done.

Zion Mobile sells two types of sim cards, Data only or Data & Voice. For the latter you can purchase a weekly unlimited internet subscription for £18usd per week *126*7# to activate the subscription.

The phone signal across the country is good for voice calls, in major towns the internet is good, once outside the quality drops significantly but does work very slowly.

Money

You will not be able to draw cash out from ATM in Sudan due to a US financial embargo… If you need to send money to Sudan your best bet is Western Union…

You will need to carry cash, preferably USD, as this appears to be also accepted in hotels at a rate of 10SD pounds to 1$

Like Argentina previously, there is a significant difference between the published official rate and that on the black market.

The official rates at the time of writing were the following (Dec 2015):

• USD Official  6.07SD to $1 / Black market 11SD to $1
• Birr Official  3.46birr to 1SD / Black market  2Birr to 1SD

You can easily change money around the Al Waha Mall in central Khartoum, you will see lots of people gesturing to you,(there is also a well-stocked supermarket)

Do not be tempted to change your money in Gonder as they will try and give you the current published rate and you will kick yourself once you have crossed the border!!

Make sure you do not change too much cash in to SD as you will not find it easy to change it back to USD at an equivalent rate.

Accommodation

Generally, the prices of accommodation in Sudan is expensive for fairly basic hotels, you are looking at between $30 and $100 per night, for really dire hotels you will be charged around $10. The Khartoum Youth Hostel costs 120SD per night for a double room or 50SD for camping.  There is wifi but the rooms and facilities are terrible…. You won’t want to sleep in one of their beds… if you do take your own bedding, sheets & pillows!!

The German Guest house has been mentioned by others $120 per night inc 3 meals per day, or camping in the road outside for $20pp… The only real benefit is that they will arrange your Alien registration and Travel & Photo permit for you, but otherwise you can get a good hotel like Hotel 45 for around $60 per night inc breakfast…

Generally it appears quite safe to wild camp in Sudan, and there are quite a few opportunities to do so.

Outside of Khartoum you may be required to register with the local police before they will allow you to stay. We have not yet been asked to do this…

Khartoum food, on average at mid-range restaurants is between 30-60SDpp, generally the food is much better quality than in Ethiopia.

For updates, see our forum post Ethiopia Gonder to Metema Road / Sudan Border – Fighting or our Facebook Overlanding Group

Requirements for a 30-day tourist visa

• Cost 690 Birr
• Two Photos
• Application form
• Receipt for money – One per person
• 3 working days

Parking down the road on the left,
GPS 9.04633, 38.76413

Sudan Visa

Requirements for a 2 weeks Transit Visa

• Cost $95
• Egypt visa
• Next day / 24 hours

The lady even completed all the forms for us!!

You can park on the road opposite the Embassy,
GPS 9.006558, 38.744841

*Note in Sudan there are no ATM’s that accept foreign cards so take all the money you need during your stay in cash, preferably USD.

Money

1. To withdraw cash over the counter
2. Speak to the banks IT department to generate a receipt (takes about an hour)
3. Exchange money and obtain a receipt

Getting USD in Addis Ababa

Most banks will only allow you to change a maximum of $150, and require you to provide a flight ticket.

In order to exchange more than this, without a flight ticket you can go to the head office of various banks, we went to the head office of the Commercial Bank of Ethiopia.

You drive into and park in the banks car park
GPS 9.017766, 38.751867

Requirements:

• Passport with Ethiopian visa
• Receipts for local currently

Instructions for the Commercial Bank of Ethiopia
Go the top floor of the bank and to counter number 69, once you tell them you are a foreigner and require a large sum of USD they will tell you to go and speak to the customer service manager in the office behind.

Once you have their approval you go back to counter 69, complete the form and give them your passport.

It will take them 10 – 20 minutes to process the form, you then go to counter 59 (or any counter around there that is open) give them the completed form and the cash.

They will then give you USD.

*Be careful they do hold some old USD so check that all notes are issued after 2008.

If you require the IT department to provide a receipt for your ATM withdrawals, go to the lower ground floor, through the door, turn left and go all the way to the end. Ask anyone on that room for help.

Map of Embassies and Bank
Addis Ababa Overland info – Map

For info on visas in Nairobi see this post: Visas in Nairobi, Kenya for Ethiopia, Sudan and Egypt – Overland

Updates can be found in our Overland Facebook Group or Forum – Overland 

Ethiopia

The Embassy stated that they will not issue the visas in Kenya and you have to get them from your home country (*note if going south you can get them easily in Egypt). We sent our passports back to the UK and it took 17 days to process the visas, so plan well in advance, it may be worthwhile using a visa agent if you are short on time. More details here Visas for Ethiopia – Not in Kenya

Sudan

You are able to obtain both a Transit and Tourist visa in Kenya, the requirements for a transit visa is an Egypt visa (to prove onwards travel), and copies of the usual documents (passport, Carnet, Photos etc)… For a tourist visa you have to provide the following:

• The original and a photo copy (double sided) of the visa application
• 2 x Passport photos with white background
• Valid passport min 6 months validity
• A copy of your passport
• Cover letter / letter of Invitation
• Copy of Yellow fever vaccinations

If non-resident of Kenya:

• A letter of introduction from your embassy* (LOI not required)
• A copy of your carnet
• A copy of the front of your credit card
• * Egypt visa is not required

Visa processing time Kenyans 2-3 days, Non Residents 3 days, Americans 1 week +

Fees, Single entry 5000ksh, Multiple entry 27,000ksh, American 14,000ksh

*Note The British Embassy does not issue letters of introduction anymore, they will issue you a letter stating the same, which should be accepted if you speak to the consol at the embassy other embassies may.

The is parking available directly outside the embassy.
GPS -1.3022652,36.7900881

Egypt

They will not issue Visa’s to non-residents in Kenya, they suggested obtaining the Visa in Addis Ababa.

There is a small parking area about 100m past the embassy on your left.
GPS -1.288870, 36.773276

British High Commission
Friendly and helpful – Car parking outside
GPS -1.296006, 36.817280

Getting Visa in Addis Ababa
We managed to obtain both the Egypt visas and Sudan visa in 4 days in Addis Abba, and would recommend the same for anyone considering the same route More details here: Visas in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia for Sudan and Egypt – Overland

Overview map of Nairobi, with Embassies, Accommodation and mechanics

*If you are planning to drive into town from Karen, it is a slow frustrating drive, it can take anywhere between 30min and 1 1/2 hours…

Nairobi Overland Info Map

The road from Marsabit to Moyale, Kenya to Ethiopia for some years had a reputation as one of the most notorious roads in Africa, known for highway robberies, and in the rain lots and lots of mud, sometimes making it impassable or a real challenge.

Over the last few years the road has been paved, currently (December 2015) there are only a few spots where road works are still being carried out.

Nanyki – Marsabit – Total Distance 335km

[singlepic id=4108 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

The road is newly paved almost all the way apart from a few areas where they are working on bridges, around 18km from Merille to near Laisamis and the last 35km to Marsabit.

[singlepic id=4102 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

Lots of locals along the road

[singlepic id=4103 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

[singlepic id=4104 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

Although the route is mostly paved, it can still become impassable when there are heavy rains. This is due to the water pooling up where the road works are being carried out, creating large mud pools, it also does not help that large trucks create deep tracks in the mud posing problems for 2wd vehicles.

[singlepic id=4105 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

[singlepic id=4106 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

[singlepic id=4107 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

There are a couple of places where there are steep muddy hills to drive up/down, in the wet, caution should be taken.

[singlepic id=4110 w=1080 h=720 float=None]

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The entire road (except the last 35km) should be fully complete in the next 6 months.

Work has started on the last 35km, but it looks like it will be a while longer before it is complete.

If it’s dry, you will have no issues at all.

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Marsabit – Moyale – Total distance 246km

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Once leaving Marsabit, the road turned to a fantastic, smooth brand new road, with only about 8km of road works still to be completed and the last section of road into Moyale.

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Safety was once a concern on this route however, as you approach the small towns there are police check points, in addition to this we also saw a few police vehicles patrolling the road.

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In general, we felt safe along the entire route. Although recently there were reports of fighting in Moyale, where the border was closed for a couple of days. If in doubt, check with the local police before setting out from Marsabit.

Enjoy the scenery

With the road tarred almost the entire way, you are able to enjoy the breath-taking scenery along this route!!

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Ethiopian side

The first parts of the road in Ethiopia once outside of Moyale, is potholed and under construction, a few kms later you will have perfectly smooth newly tarred road again!!

One truck did manage to get stuck in the road works.

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For updates, see our forum post Marsabit to Moyale road – Kenya to Ethiopia / Ethiopia Gonder to Metema Road / Sudan Border – Fighting or our Facebook Overlanding Group

After saying goodbye to our friend and her family in Popayan, we head towards the city of Pasto, a long but amazingly scenic 245km five hour drive through impossibly green steep and jagged mountains with vertical drops to the sides. We had been warned that the road is said to be one of the most dangerous in Colombia owing to a high level of guerrilla activity in the surrounding mountains.  It also has a high incidence of buses and cars robbed at night so driving this route after dark would not be wise…

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Arriving in Pasto at the foot of the Galeras volcano in the Atriz valley quite late, we check in to the hotel we had planned on staying in, where we just manage to fit into their parking area.  Of course, it is never that simple, we can’t find the hotel and end up having to ask a variety of people for directions.  Trying to translate Spanish whilst being tired and a little stressed is not a good combination! Hours later, we can finally relax for the day!

Walking out from the hotel in the evening for dinner, the streets are bustling with people, we see a small but busy restaurant/cafe and order some grilled meat with potatoes and veg which is served on a huge wooden chopping board.

12^th January

We start the drive early towards the Ecuadorian border, again going through some fantastic scenery.  Whilst admiring the view, we meet a German overlander, Holger, riding a diesel powered motorbike!!

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It takes around a couple of hours to get to the Las Lajas Sanctuary, where we bump into Dan and Liene of Zanzando, fellow 4×4 overlanders who are travelling up to Alaska, and explore the grand basilica church with them.

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The sanctuary is a spectacular site, amazingly built on a stone bridge within a deep gorge of the Guaitara river, 100 metres high from the bottom of the canon to the top.  The bridge which connects it to the other side is even 50m in length!

The legend behind why the church was built in such a precarious yet beautiful location goes back to the mid 18^th century whereby a mother and deaf daughter seek shelter in the gorge from a storm.  The young girl sees an image of the Virgin Mary on the rocks and is cured.  Shortly after, an old blind man had travelled from one village to the next collecting money to build a chapel around the image, and on return to Las Lajas, his eyesight is restored.

These miracles inspired the building of the present church which was built from 1916 to 1949 in Gothic Revival style, making it look like it could have been built centuries before and almost entirely from the donations of churchgoers, replacing the original shrine.

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The church is a place of pilgrimage to many Colombians but being a Monday morning, there are relatively few people around, adding to the air of mystery surrounding it.

The sanctuary looks more like a fairy tale castle than a place of worship, although mass is taking place as we arrive, the altar is the canyon’s rock and the church is literally built into it.

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We walk around the side to the waterfall passing a collection of plaques on the cliff wall left by pilgrims as thanks for spiritual experiences and miracles they had attributed to the Virgin Mary’s presence and down to the small museum at the bottom of the sanctuary.

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Later we take a walk through the small touristy town of small souvenir stalls selling religious memorabilia and a string of little restaurants all advertising the local delicacy of guinea pig or cuy along with llama photo taking opportunities!

Walking out for dinner at night, it’s freezing, we are an altitude of 2950metres and everyone around us are covered up in ponchos!

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Colombia has been a fantastic country to travel in, with friendly people everywhere, always ready to help us out when needed, and surprisingly, it felt much safer there than in some of the countries we had been to in Central America!

In the morning, we cross over the border and into Ecuador!

Of course that’s what you would assume, but you must always check the T&C’s, there are many licences and variations of these out there.

Forums

A lot of forums are commercial businesses, The Expedition Portal and Horizons Unlimited both operate as businesses and put a lot of effort into advertising products and services on their sites. Going back a decade or so this was the norm for forums, someone created a community forum, they took the time and money to set it up, and looked at ways to recover those costs. With the rise of internet advertising, forums saw opportunities to monetise the content. This became the norm and you expected to see some advertising in the forums, and accepted it was needed to provide the service.

In today’s world, hosting is cheap, software is cheap and there is little excuse to generate income from providing such services. Some Forums are not for profit i.e Overland Sphere, there is no advertising in the forum nor do we wish to earn money from providing the service.

Most forums, as part of joining require you to sign up to their T&C’s, it is normal for these to include a non-exclusive licence to use the content uploaded in any way they wish. These are normally standard T&C’s and not edited to suit each site. Without this most forums would not be able to operate.

When you post in a forum, you should bear in mind you are granting the site a licence to use your content and they are free to use it any way they wish. In practice, they do not appear to abuse this right.

Wiki’s

Wiki based sites regularly use a creativecommons.org licence there a six different types of licences, these normally allow for use, copying and editing for non-commercial purposes, provided appropriate credit is given to the source, however others variations include “for any purpose, even commercially.” Which would mean provided a commercial third party gave credit to the source, the Wiki site, they could generate income from the information / data.

There is nothing wrong with sties that allow all use including commercial, just be aware what licencee is place before you add your data. Remember its also your contribution so you should be comfortable with how it is being used.

Attribution  CC BY
This license lets others distribute, remix, tweak, and build upon your work, even commercially, as long as they credit you for the original creation. This is the most accommodating of licenses offered. Recommended for maximum dissemination and use of licensed materials.

Attribution-ShareAlike  CC BY-SA
This license lets others remix, tweak, and build upon your work even for commercial purposes, as long as they credit you and license their new creations under the identical terms.

Attribution-NoDerivs CC BY-ND
This license allows for redistribution, commercial and non-commercial, as long as it is passed along unchanged and in whole, with credit to you.

Attribution-NonCommercial CC BY-NC
This license lets others remix, tweak, and build upon your work non-commercially, and although their new works must also acknowledge you and be non-commercial, they don’t have to license their derivative works on the same terms.

Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike CC BY-NC-SA
This license lets others remix, tweak, and build upon your work non-commercially, as long as they credit you and license their new creations under the identical terms.

Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND
This license is the most restrictive of our six main licenses, only allowing others to download your works and share them with others as long as they credit you, but they can’t change them in any way or use them commercially.

Most Wiki based sites do not generate income, and generally it is accepted / assumed they do not. Those that do should clearly state so, to avoid any confusion.

Next time you join a Wiki, check the T&C’s.

Other Websites / Service providers

Other sites have their own T&C’s, quite often and reasonably these are in place to protect the service provider, but its sometimes ambiguous as to what they are allowed or not allowed to do with your data.

For example on Overland Sphere, we have T&C’s that protect us as an entity but we also clearly state that “Syndicated blog posts remain the property of the originating author and subject to the author’s copyright.” And “Your data, your content & your photos are yours; we will never attempt to sell it or seek ownership of your data.” “

We do not grant permission to commercial third parties to use your data as this is for you to grant and not us. You have kindly provided your data so that we can share it with the community, and that is as far as it goes…

So this brings me to something that has happened to me recently, a while back a popular information sharing site was created, we decided that we did not agree with the T&C’s on their site as they appeared to be to exploitive, and too strong with no clear statement that they would never sell you data…

Here is an extract of those T&C’s “By submitting User Submissions on the Site or otherwise through the Site, you hereby do and shall grant xxx a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid, sub licensable and transferable license to use, copy, edit, modify, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, perform, and otherwise fully exploit the User Submissions in connection with the Site.”

Now these T&C’s are unduly harsh (which we have pointed out before), if they require rights to share the data with specific third parties etc. they can add those details specifically rather than having an open door to do whatever they like when they like with the data. Most T&C’s can be changed at a later date provided said rights are written into the T&C’s.

Back to the story, I contributed my content to another community site, whose T&C’s were similar but not as harsh… and my assumption was that the ownership of the data was not transferable without my permission. The T&C’s state “This includes the right to sublicense to others at our discretion” and clearly did not state that they had the right to transfer ownership of the data or licence. They also clearly stated “Don’t worry, we won’t sell your contact details to marketing companies for spamming!” These were terms I read and agreed to.

So what I found out yesterday was that the ownership of the data I had contributed had been transferred to a site, one which I chose not to contribute to as I did not agree to their terms and conditions.

In a case where ownership is being transferred and where the data contributed was now under different terms and conditions, I would have expected either party to reasonably have tried to notify or contact the users before publishing and using the data.

They could have a) put a notice up on their site(s) b) attempted to contact the users, they had a link to our website and clearly knew our website name c) also announced the changes through the online communities.

They should have given people a clear option to opt in or out of the transfer and also given a chance to read, understand and choose whether they agreed to the new terms and conditions which the data is held under.

I contacted both parties who explained the reason for the transfer was due to one of the sites going down, even so, this should not have prevented them from storing the data to safeguard it. They could have, once the data was saved, notified or contacted the users for permission to transfer the data, as this does not appear to have been covered in the original sites T&C’s.

So the questions here:

1) Did they legally breach the T&C’s – probably.

2) Was the way the transfer was carried out reasonable – Whether their intentions were just or not, it’s a simple No – they broke my trust over data I submitted, probably breached the T&C’s I agreed to and subjected my content to alternative T&C’s without my permission…

3) Would I consider using this website, well I think their intentions are good, but they have made mistakes – They need to change their T&C’s and clearly state whether they do or do not intend to monetize the service in any way in the future and provide safeguards of the same!

4) They also need to allow people to choose to opt in or out of the transfer and roll back what they have done!

5) Is my Data safe, well no – it really depends on the site owners, as most sites have the right to do as they wish. Certainly this one does! Best thing is to check that they explicitly state they will not monetize your data and there are no provisions in the T&C’s that allow them to transfer ownership. There would be very little you could do once the data has been transferred or sold on, without taking legal action.

We generally do not support websites that try to monetize or generate income from the provision of data or that have exploitive T&C’s.

I have not included the identity of said websites as I am not out to name and shame them but do want to raise people’s awareness of what they are signing up to, I also hope the said websites do read this post and do implement changes… Take ownership of their actions and safeguard the data people have provided to them.

On the way to the site, we turn off down a dirt road, where we are stopped by a local guide. He advises us that we cannot continue in our vehicle as the road is in a very bad condition further up… We look at the bumpy dirt road, similar to ones we had driven on a million times before and don’t understand why..

A minute later, another car pulls up beside us, a short base Toyota Prado, and we check with him if it is possible to go down, referring to the guide who said we couldn’t.  He laughs raucously and replies ‘In your car, of course, he is an idiot’ then tells us to follow him. He drives off at speed bumping down the steep hill towards a shallow water crossing…

Sure enough, we make it along the rickety track, crossing the stream and down to an area with a horse paddock, a nice little cafe and crafts shop.

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A couple of kid point us in the right direction and we follow the track downwards overlooking a steep green gorge with shimmering waterfalls in the distance on the far side of the canyon.

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Some steep worse for wear stairs including some which are completely broken or missing lead us down to various lookout points over the Rio Magdalena and down to a dramatically set deity carved into the sheer rock, it’s hands raised in worship.

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It’s also blowing a gale and our hats go flying although luckily not too far!  Going back uphill is hard work as I am still aching from the morning’s workout!

We re-join the main road and head towards to El Estrecho, which brings us to a lookout over the gorge of the Rio Magdalena, the country’s principal river which flows through its western half.

At El Estrecho, we jump out and take a walk along the canyon where the Río Magdalena passes through a 2.2metre narrow canyon, it reminds us a lot of southern France.

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At the bottom of the gorge, there’s a deep pool where the locals are enjoying cooling down in the waters and jumping in from a high rock.

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From here the road goes uphill and turns in to a dirt track; at the top we have more fantastic views of the countryside and the long, steep and bumpy road to the bottom of the valley.

Martin then drives via a very scary rocky narrow one lane road with a drop straight down into the plunging canyon.

We continue all the way down to a small rickety bridge where the road goes back up the steep valley and deteriorates a little, a couple of tourist jeeps coming towards us struggle to navigate a large dip in the road.

The drive begins to take us into a remote area passing tall fields of wheat and sugarcane.

Its the Carnival Blancos y Negros  (Blacks and Whites Carnival) where the locals take to the streets and flour bomb everyone and everything that moves…It’s the largest carnival celebration in southern Colombia.

Along the road there are three small children, unluckily for the tourists in front of, they have their windows down and before they know it they are covered in a mist of flour and water… We manage to pass by unscathed due to their poor aim…

We stop to ask a local on a bike if we can get to the Alto de Los Idolos this way and he points us in the right direction but as it will be dark soon, we decide to do it in the morning instead.

We head back via the main road and cut through the outskirts of San José de Isnos, this time we are not so lucky and the entire car is covered with foam and flour….

In the evening, we walk into town for another budget friendly menu del dia!

8th -9th January

After a quick breakfast in town, we drive out to the Alto de Los Idolos (The High Idols) this time along the main road before turning down a bumpy gravel track.  Road works cause us to be stuck in a traffic jam for a while with people pointing and staring at the right hand side wheel, yes we realise that we are mad driving in South America!  It‘s not until an hour later that we actually reach the site.

It‘s another uphill walk to the site, passing a very tired looking shire horse along the narrow path; it’s not tied up and begins to follow a group of worried looking people down the hill!

At the very top of the hill, we come to a large green clearing with a large sculpture in the middle, home to the region’s tallest statue at 7metres representing a female figure.

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The mountainside was transformed into a horseshoe pattern by removing earth from the centre and filled to form the arms.

The UNESCO world heritage site has several well preserved funerary complexes with sarcophagi and amazingly conserved sculptures symbolizing guardians of death with various types of tombs.

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There is a large unusual stone burial coffin with four protruding edifices which may have functioned as a means of carrying it until you consider the sheer weight, resulting in this theory to be virtually impossible!

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The park is much smaller than the San Agustin one but is equally impressive with unusual sculptures we had not seen yesterday in the main park.

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We still need to make it back to Popayan before dark so we set off along the gravel road for a repeat of the tortuous drive.  It seems to take forever eventually arriving back to the welcome mayhem of the city just before nightfall!

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We check into a quirky but nice converted colonial house complete with creaking floorboards and high ceilings.

Feeling slightly under the weather, we have a day of rest and plan to visit the archaeological site in the morning.  We head to town for a menu del dia of soup, meat, rice, beans, salad and a juice, all for $3!  There seem to be plenty of local tourists riding up the quiet main road on horseback. When a local asks if we want to take a horse tour, Martin just gestures that I would probably fall off and break a leg or two!  Taking a drive around town and looking for a supermercado, we drive via the plaza square and church which is busy with locals sitting around chatting and taking a break from the midday heat.

6^th January

We wake early getting breakfast in a small bakery in town then set off for the San Agustin archaeological park, just a few minutes drive down the road in the sunshine.  There is a high military presence when we get there, around ten soldiers standing around the entrance area with huge assault rifles in hand.

The first section of the UNESCO World Heritage Site is an interesting museum with historical information (in English) about a mysterious ancient culture which inhabited these lands as long as 5000 years ago along with examples of the extraordinary statues which were perfectly carved with exquisite skill between the 1^st and 8^th centuries.

The San Agustin civilization developed in the valley of the Magdalena River carving and constructing sculptures from the volcanic rock, producing some of the most impressive pre-Colombian work in South America but little is known about the people who disappeared long before the arrival of the Spanish in the 16^th century.

Located at 1800 metres, over 600 ancient megalith statues have been found scattered around the green hills surrounding San Agustin, some resembling sacred animals like the jaguar and eagle, others mythical animals, human like figures such as warriors with clubs and Gods, all skilfully crafted by the mysterious culture.

Only a small number of the sites have been excavated and it is thought huge pyramids and other structures remain buried within the area.

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At  the entrance to the main site there is a small but interesting souvenir market.

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The walking trail takes us to the first grassy clearing where we see large ornate life-like statues placed around in among funerary mounds which look like tables supported by pillars, possibly guardians of the dead providing a link between the ancestors and the supernatural world.  They are so well preserved, it is amazing that so many have survived so perfectly intact over the centuries.  Who these people were and the exact purpose of these gigantic sculptures remains a mystery, yet they reflect the presence of a creative and complex pre-Hispanic civilization of religious and magical beliefs.

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A long trail then takes us to the next set of statues and the Fuente de lavapatas with carvings of animals, small pools and ducts made in the stone bed of the stream, which was possibly used for worship of aquatic deities.

A hot uphill walk brings us to stunning views over the countryside.

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An eagle like statue with snake.

Finally, we take a narrow trail through the forest with lots of smaller sized statues which had been moved from their original sites.

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