https://outlinersoftware.com Discussions about outliner software en-us Fri, 21 Aug 2026 14:38:47 -0400 https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48378 Fri, 21 Aug 2026 14:38:47 -0400 Dr Dog Many thanks - I missed that. Very nice feature! Luhmann wrote: >It already has "folding" though I call it "zoom." You can zoom in on any level of the outline by double-clicking the left sidebar. > >Typewriter mode is on the roadmap, as an enhancement to the existing "focus" mode. (Focus mode features can be turned on/off via the preferences.) It already has "folding" though I call it "zoom." You can zoom in on any level of the outline by double-clicking the left sidebar. > >Typewriter mode is on the roadmap, as an enhancement to the existing "focus" mode. (Focus mode features can be turned on/off via the preferences.)]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48377 Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:31:26 -0400 Luhmann Wow. Thanks! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48376 Fri, 21 Aug 2026 06:44:54 -0400 Paul Korm I regret I didn't get around to downloading FINAL|FINAL until now. (CRIMPing delayed is dangerous for one's health.) I am very impressed @Luhmann. This is very inventive, feature rich, and unique software. I've tried many authoring apps over the years and never been as satisfied. (Note: we can show appreciation by sponsoring Luhmann on his GitHub.) https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12701 msg-48375 Fri, 21 Aug 2026 06:26:36 -0400 Paul Korm Yes, I thought "where's the outliner?" Pricey for personal use, but maybe not for a small team, which is not my case. The owner / developer is Tom Moor. https://x.com/tommoor https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48374 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 20:41:31 -0400 Luhmann > although it's hard to know how well that scales as a business Thanks for your kind words. This app is primarily a tool for my personal use. My hope is that if I make the best app for my own needs, it will also meet other people's needs as well. I don't really plan to commercialize it, though I do hope that eventually other people might donate to support my costs, or even contribute code via open source PRs. I do, however, have plans for two other apps that will be offered commercially, although it's hard to know how well that scales as a business Thanks for your kind words. This app is primarily a tool for my personal use. My hope is that if I make the best app for my own needs, it will also meet other people's needs as well. I don't really plan to commercialize it, though I do hope that eventually other people might donate to support my costs, or even contribute code via open source PRs. I do, however, have plans for two other apps that will be offered commercially, and the skills I've learned making this app should help me develop those. It is my hope that, eventually, profit from those apps can help subsidize my costs for developing this one. (They are much simpler apps, but will require more work to make them easy and pleasant to use.)]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48373 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 20:37:18 -0400 Luhmann It already has "folding" though I call it "zoom." You can zoom in on any level of the outline by double-clicking the left sidebar. Typewriter mode is on the roadmap, as an enhancement to the existing "focus" mode. (Focus mode features can be turned on/off via the preferences.) https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12701 msg-48372 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 19:05:01 -0400 Stephen Zeoli I've seen this app and even tried it. It really isn't an outliner. It is a document organizer for use in collaboration. I agree it has a nice clean design and may be excellent, but I feel like it has the wrong name for what it is. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12701 msg-48371 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 18:53:25 -0400 jaslar Ran across this today: https://www.getoutline.com/ Has anyone tried it? I haven't. It looks good, has a clean UI, and they even said it should be fun. It felt like a good match between notes management, long form writing, project management, and team communication that is way more than I require. It also has (looking at the guide) a splash of AI. Can't say if it's any good. I do wonder what the organizational schema looks like, and how they got there. The left pane is so tidy. But I n https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48370 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 18:30:20 -0400 jaslar I don't use MacOS anymore, although I do have a 2011 MacBook Pro running Linux Mint with a Sierra theme. But I have to say that watching this thread was a lot of fun and made me want to get my hands on it. Luhmann is a staggeringly swift developer with a clear and comprehensive view of what he's trying to do. This is a thoughtful approach to academic writing and workflow. Good marketing and customer support too, although it's hard to know how well that scales as a business. Right now, one rem https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12700 msg-48369 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 08:23:40 -0400 Darren McDonald2 In my search for an app that uses quality voices to export audio files, including audiobooks, I came across this excellent app, ONarrator. https://www.onarrator.com I have had problems with creating Japanese audiobooks from PDFs and epub files. I have tried out many apps, searching for them in Internet searches, using AI, and reading reddit posts. None of the apps worked for me, or if they did, the voice was so robotic that it made listening unbearable. I stumbled on ONarrator in the MacA https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48368 Wed, 19 Aug 2026 14:17:48 -0400 Dr Dog Nice. Are you planning on adding folding and/or a typewriter mode? DD https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12678 msg-48367 Wed, 19 Aug 2026 05:40:55 -0400 Paul Korm Mark is a coding god. His superfood is user suggestions. Dr Dog wrote: >P.S. I wrote to Mark last night with a small query about the panes; he replied very quickly, and this morning I find that there is an app update to accommodate the issue. That's truly impressive. P.S. I wrote to Mark last night with a small query about the panes; he replied very quickly, and this morning I find that there is an app update to accommodate the issue. That's truly impressive.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12678 msg-48366 Wed, 19 Aug 2026 04:28:46 -0400 Dr Dog I found this yesterday and am exceedingly impressed. I'm now retired and am planning a number of non-fiction projects based on my mainly historical academic research. At this stage I think I actually need an app like this, which allows me to build up the new in different structures, utilising the old material, without things getting too congested (as they seemed to do immediately with Tinderbox, which I've used for the academic work for over a decade). As I read the manual I imagined immed https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12699 msg-48365 Mon, 17 Aug 2026 21:54:04 -0400 Paul Korm A blast from deep history. v7 looks very familiar -- main difference is that it is a Silicon app so it won't be obsolete when Apple pulls Rosetta support. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12699 msg-48364 Mon, 17 Aug 2026 18:16:17 -0400 Beck After many years, Cmap Tools has a beta out for v7: https://cmap.ihmc.us/docs/cmaptools-release-notes.php https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48363 Sun, 16 Aug 2026 20:40:01 -0400 Luhmann I've come to realize that it isn't "vibe coding" that is a problem, but that a lot of vibe coders simply don't do the followup work. Tom Cargill once said "The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time." If you spend tokens on that other 90% you can get decent code. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48362 Sun, 16 Aug 2026 20:34:54 -0400 Luhmann The release log for Final-Final only shows about half of the work I've put into it. I don't include all the changes I've made to the development tools: tests, workflows, task management, etc. But all that work has paid off and development is moving very quickly. I think in a few weeks I can transition from bug fixing to adding new features and cleaning up the UI. https://github.com/kerim/finalfinal/releases https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12697 msg-48361 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 06:12:24 -0400 exatty95 To put a coda on this experience, I did hear back from Tana -- five weeks after my original exchange and after three follow-ups. I was told that the "system" incorrectly marked my case as resolved (despite the follow-up emails). Maybe that was the AI Tana seems to be adopting for just about everything... https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12698 msg-48360 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 07:58:37 -0400 MacSE Thank you. Actually, Workflowy might well suit my basic needs. I’m taking part in the Foldnotes beta test; for now, it certainly looks as though I’ve found a real gem, but yet another new app – is that really sensible? CRIMP again! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12698 msg-48359 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 06:45:23 -0400 Stephen Zeoli I suspect you've may already have considered it, but Workflowy comes to my mind, especially if you like the outlining approach of Zavala. It is an endless outline. Another often overlooked option is Notebooks by Alfons Schmidt. You can make documents as Plain Text, Markdown or Formatted, and organize them as you like. They are saved locally, so you always have access to them in other apps. And you can compile them easily into long, single documents. And Notebooks is a one-time purchase. Just a c https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12678 msg-48358 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 05:09:39 -0400 Amontillado Here's what looks best to me: A MojoPad document is a folder of plain JSON and your original files, sitting wherever you put it — Dropbox, iCloud Drive, an external drive. No sync service, no subscription, no ads, no tracking. I'll give it a trial. Local-first is a requirement for me. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12698 msg-48357 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 05:02:24 -0400 MacSE Hello, this question has no doubt been asked many times before, but I’m asking again; the post about apps to use in retirement got me thinking about one of my current projects. I’ve started writing down my memories; nothing ambitious, just a diary written decades later. The structure is simple (for now): places as chapter headings, then, for each place, snippets of memories with no particular order or numbering. I started in Zavala, an app I really like, by creating a single note which I add t https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12678 msg-48356 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 19:45:34 -0400 Mark We have been busy making MojoPad even better than it was, over the past few months. Below are some highlights, if you are interested in trialing free for 14 days, head over to MojoPad.app Personal Wiki Journaling MindMapping (Coming Tomorrow) Full Outliner Full Task Manager (Think Todoist) StoryBoard (Think Gingko) Beautiful/Functional Graph View Local AI Integration via Ollama Infinite Canvas KanBan Board Import from other PKM apps Learning Playground Dictation Read Aloud PDF/E https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12674 msg-48355 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 00:02:45 -0400 Junichi Sato Hi everyone, I’m Junichi, the developer of Kosshi. I heard about this forum a while ago and posted here once, but it seems that it took some time for my account to be approved. I recently logged in again and found that I could now post. The “6 days remaining” message was a bug. The trial itself was always a full 7 days, but the number shown was rounded down. Sorry for the confusion. This was fixed in a recent update. MacSE, I checked the App Store after reading your comment. It seems that https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12674 msg-48354 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:54:45 -0400 MacSE That was mean, it's a great app! MacSE wrote: >I might be a bit mean, but instead of the 7-day trial period mentioned on the website, the app says ‘6 days remaining’ as soon as you open it for the first time... I might be a bit mean, but instead of the 7-day trial period mentioned on the website, the app says ‘6 days remaining’ as soon as you open it for the first time...]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12674 msg-48353 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:48:09 -0400 MacSE I was planning to buy the app, but it’s not available on the App Store in my region (France). Is this a bug? https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12697 msg-48352 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 10:56:07 -0400 Graham Rhind My experience with Tana is similar. They sent weekly updates until they "launched" on some platform or other and then went completely silent. In the meantime they changed my subscription model without even bothering to tell me. It continues to amaze me how companies don't get how important communicating with their customers and prospects is. Anyway, along with their obsession with AI whilst ignoring basic functions that their users are begging for, that put me off Tana for good. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12697 msg-48351 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 10:35:28 -0400 Paul Korm Stephen Zeoli wrote: >It is such a volatile time for PKM developers and users. There are so many options… Yes. And pieces of the market for PKM tools are shrinking due to people building their own tools with Claude, etc. E.g., this host of a popular pod cast: https://relay.fm/mpu/861 It is such a volatile time for PKM developers and users. There are so many options… Yes. And pieces of the market for PKM tools are shrinking due to people building their own tools with Claude, etc. E.g., this host of a popular pod cast: https://relay.fm/mpu/861]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12697 msg-48350 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 08:55:13 -0400 Stephen Zeoli It is such a volatile time for PKM developers and users. There are so many options, and the technology changes so quickly, especially for those developers incorporating AI (which is most of them, it seems). I don't know if there will be an end to the shake out and things will stabilize, or if this is the environment we're stuck with for the foreseeable future, but it is a cautionary reminder to keep your data as versatile as possible -- not that this is news to anyone on this forum. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12697 msg-48349 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 08:15:00 -0400 Paul Korm 100% Tana management and staff engagement with users has become largely silence. There is some limited posting from a couple or three lower level staff on Tana's Slack for the user community. The group of influencers who at one time were very active with their tutorials, advanced training, etc. have all but disappeared or gone on to make content for other apps. I've seen zero advertising for the "new" Tana app. (Although advertising it as an "agentic meeting platform" isn't very exciti