https://outlinersoftware.com Discussions about outliner software en-us Mon, 18 May 2026 12:34:20 -0400 https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48054 Mon, 18 May 2026 12:34:20 -0400 exatty95 I will say that my first look at the new Tana does not fill me with hope for sticking with the program. I just spent a couple of minutes with it, but it seems to be all about collaborative work. I don't see anything so far that suggests taking and making sense of notes has any significant role to play. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48053 Mon, 18 May 2026 11:06:46 -0400 MadaboutDana That makes sense – and actually accounts for most of the footprint. Luhmann wrote: >Thanks! The large footprint is largely due to TinyTeX (232 MB). This is actually the smallest possible way I can support PanDoc export to Word and PDF. The other option would be to require users to download and install it themselves, but I felt the trade off was worth it. Thanks! The large footprint is largely due to TinyTeX (232 MB). This is actually the smallest possible way I can support PanDoc export to Word and PDF. The other option would be to require users to download and install it themselves, but I felt the trade off was worth it.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48052 Sun, 17 May 2026 18:25:15 -0400 Luhmann Thanks! The large footprint is largely due to TinyTeX (232 MB). This is actually the smallest possible way I can support PanDoc export to Word and PDF. The other option would be to require users to download and install it themselves, but I felt the trade off was worth it. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48051 Sun, 17 May 2026 15:00:45 -0400 MadaboutDana Well, I've spent an hour or so checking out Final|FINAL, and I must say that's a very impressive achievement! You've created something that's as functional as much more mature products in a remarkably short space of time. The footprint is fairly sizeable, but the app is responsive and pleasant to use. And there's a lot of functionality in there! Congratulations! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48049 Sun, 17 May 2026 05:37:45 -0400 MadaboutDana Most entertaining – after recent discussions of other "final" apps, you may finally have nailed it! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12657 msg-48048 Sun, 17 May 2026 05:35:28 -0400 MadaboutDana Now now! No less a person than Professor Dawkins has suggested that AI may indeed be conscious (after lengthy interaction with his agent "Claudia"...). So it *must* be true... ;-D Amontillado wrote: >Fascinating how discussion has enjoyed a resurgence since the redesign. > >It's like X, except without having to filter through all the flat earth drivel and claims AI is conscious. > >Or, maybe it is self-aware and I'm heartless. I turn computers off without the slightest feeling of remo Fascinating how discussion has enjoyed a resurgence since the redesign. > >It's like X, except without having to filter through all the flat earth drivel and claims AI is conscious. > >Or, maybe it is self-aware and I'm heartless. I turn computers off without the slightest feeling of remorse. Except when browsing this site, of course.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12657 msg-48047 Sat, 16 May 2026 11:03:40 -0400 Ken Chris Murtland wrote: >I'm going to add this, just haven't gotten around to it yet. It's definitely annoying to have to scroll/find where you left off in a topic. > >Ken wrote: >>Quick question. Is there a way for a thread to open to where I last left off reading it when I revisit the forum, or is that not possible? Not a requirement, but quite handy if available. Thank you, Chirs. No rush. But nice to know it is coming. --Ken I'm going to add this, just haven't gotten around to it yet. It's definitely annoying to have to scroll/find where you left off in a topic. > >Ken wrote: >>Quick question. Is there a way for a thread to open to where I last left off reading it when I revisit the forum, or is that not possible? Not a requirement, but quite handy if available. Thank you, Chirs. No rush. But nice to know it is coming. --Ken]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12657 msg-48046 Fri, 15 May 2026 10:04:16 -0400 Chris Murtland I'm going to add this, just haven't gotten around to it yet. It's definitely annoying to have to scroll/find where you left off in a topic. Ken wrote: >Quick question. Is there a way for a thread to open to where I last left off reading it when I revisit the forum, or is that not possible? Not a requirement, but quite handy if available. Quick question. Is there a way for a thread to open to where I last left off reading it when I revisit the forum, or is that not possible? Not a requirement, but quite handy if available.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12623 msg-48045 Fri, 15 May 2026 08:54:51 -0400 Luhmann Final|Final now supports Markdown tables. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12657 msg-48044 Fri, 15 May 2026 08:53:14 -0400 Luhmann This is wonderful! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48043 Wed, 13 May 2026 13:27:37 -0400 Prion Interesting discussion and responses. I just want to make it clear that I am just a regular user of SB and many other pieces of software aiming to solve the same problem, i.e. NOT the author of some of these in disguise :-) I feel similarly about the quest for the one and only solution, however futile it may be, being part of the fun hence absolutely no apology needed. MadaboutDana wrote: >Trouble is, when one's exchanging news and views in writing, it's not always easy to read (what passes Trouble is, when one's exchanging news and views in writing, it's not always easy to read (what passes for) humour into people's remarks, and in my experience quite a lot of the criticism on our forum is intended humorously. I mean, we wouldn't be here if we weren't interested in experimenting with different solutions! And as it happens, I've still got Silverbullet open in a browser tab and spend a few minutes every so often playing with it. I like it! > >But as Paul says, I already use very similar solutions, so was perhaps unfairly dismissive in my earlier remarks. Apologies if that was the case! And it's nice to hear from someone who's actually using it "in anger", as it were, because positive feedback is actually much more valuable than anything else. Although it's also important to remember that negative feedback is a useful incentive to improve (usually in direct dialogue with the developer). Andy Brice wrote: > >The developer can't expect to call something 'Silverbullet' and not get some ribbing for it. ;0) > >At least it isn't as grandiose as 'The Last One': >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_One_(software) Haha, I totally understand and I hope that the eternal CRIMPers dilemma described above was recognised by many of you. I just thought it fair to also raise my voice and add a few positive aspects of Silverbullet to the mix to balance it out a bit.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48042 Wed, 13 May 2026 05:33:42 -0400 Andy Brice >Although I realise that some of the comments are rather tongue in cheek, I feel that the overall negative vibe towards Silverbullet is unwarranted. The developer can't expect to call something 'Silverbullet' and not get some ribbing for it. ;0) At least it isn't as grandiose as 'The Last One': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_One_(software) Although I realise that some of the comments are rather tongue in cheek, I feel that the overall negative vibe towards Silverbullet is unwarranted. The developer can't expect to call something 'Silverbullet' and not get some ribbing for it. ;0) At least it isn't as grandiose as 'The Last One': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_One_(software)]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48040 Tue, 12 May 2026 07:38:29 -0400 Paul Korm This is my personal reading of the situation. I love Tana and I admire the whole team. I just believe that doing a major pivot to build a "new Tana" (their words) with as-yet vaguely defined features and use cases, while promising to keep the old product, somehow, and while having earnest but not highly effective marketing skills, seems like a downward slope. I strongly hope I'm wrong. exatty95 wrote: >What underlies your comment about Tana sliding toward oblivion? What underlies your comment about Tana sliding toward oblivion?]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48039 Tue, 12 May 2026 06:51:04 -0400 exatty95 What underlies your comment about Tana sliding toward oblivion? The fumbled communications regarding its new version? The fact that it is basing its future on AI and shared workspaces? Something else? I have been using it for a couple of years, and while it has become more like Tinderbox in the requirement of real expertise to access many of its capabilities, it is still pretty usable and helpful for the basics (much like Tinderbox). I will say, though, after reading favorable recent comments https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48038 Tue, 12 May 2026 05:50:32 -0400 MadaboutDana Trouble is, when one's exchanging news and views in writing, it's not always easy to read (what passes for) humour into people's remarks, and in my experience quite a lot of the criticism on our forum is intended humorously. I mean, we wouldn't be here if we weren't interested in experimenting with different solutions! And as it happens, I've still got Silverbullet open in a browser tab and spend a few minutes every so often playing with it. I like it! But as Paul says, I already use very si https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48036 Mon, 11 May 2026 19:46:11 -0400 Paul Korm Prion wrote: >We really should be asking ourselves why we keep criticising note taking software for either being too focused but inflexible or, conversely, rabbit holes for futzing around with configs rather than getting anything done. Don't assume that a reply here means no evaluation is going on. I dug around in the SilverBullet site and found a beta standalone desktop version for macOS Silicon. I've been running it. I like much of what I see, but it overlaps in most respects with O We really should be asking ourselves why we keep criticising note taking software for either being too focused but inflexible or, conversely, rabbit holes for futzing around with configs rather than getting anything done. Don't assume that a reply here means no evaluation is going on. I dug around in the SilverBullet site and found a beta standalone desktop version for macOS Silicon. I've been running it. I like much of what I see, but it overlaps in most respects with Obsidian and Tana (tags in SB vs supertags in Tana), both of which I use already. It also reminds me of parts of Christian & Sascha's Archive app (interface, mainly), and parts of NVUltra. I'll keep SilverBullet around as insurance since Tana looks to be sliding down the slippery slope toward oblivion.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48035 Mon, 11 May 2026 16:24:33 -0400 Prion Although I realise that some of the comments are rather tongue in cheek, I feel that the overall negative vibe towards Silverbullet is unwarranted. I installed it practically when it was launched and ran it first locally, then hosted on Pikapods and now self-hosted on my own server and found it to be very powerful *despite* spending only minutes configuring it to my liking. We really should be asking ourselves why we keep criticising note taking software for either being too focused but i https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12667 msg-48034 Mon, 11 May 2026 11:33:46 -0400 MadaboutDana I have to say, this is why I actually use a completely separate tool (the super-search engine FoxTrot Professional) to scour through my now vast archive of reference materials (including every kind of document format). But one of the reasons I like markdown-based apps so much is that they're so flexible – I have four apps that all access various parts of the same markdown repository, all of them slightly different. FoxTrot holds it all together when I want to delve back into stuff I've long https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12664 msg-48033 Mon, 11 May 2026 09:31:45 -0400 pedter Thank you again, MadaboutDana! I've heard about TiddlyWiki, but I'm surprised to learn how potent it is and how active the community around it. Basket looks like a cool project as well, similar to the Spiral I've mentioned but further developed. Unfortunately, both don't seem to allow for my workflow or a practical way to transfer my old notes, so it looks like I'm still out of luck in my search for an alternative. But in the meantime I learned that OneNote 2007 appears to work well on rec https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48032 Mon, 11 May 2026 08:44:53 -0400 Andy Brice Silverbullet seems a rather optimistic name. If/when it folds (as so many apps do in this space) we'll be able to say "There is no Silverbullet". https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12667 msg-48030 Mon, 11 May 2026 07:02:10 -0400 exatty95 Fair enough! But a big reason I'm a CRIMPer is my never-ending search for a user-friendly app that makes it easier to surface emergent connections among notes and, far better, text (blocks) within notes. That makes it hard to give up my "installed base" of notes. True, I might not read them again currently, but I'm ever-hopeful that I'll find an app that re-energizes the notes I thought were relevant and helpful when I took/copied them. I use Obsidian but find the endless scroll of Linked and Un https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48029 Mon, 11 May 2026 06:33:27 -0400 Paul Korm Whenever a maker suggests >Perhaps you [install this] on a Raspberry Pi you didn't have a use for I see the rock guarding the entrance to a deep, dark rabbit hold sliding aside … Perhaps you [install this] on a Raspberry Pi you didn't have a use for I see the rock guarding the entrance to a deep, dark rabbit hold sliding aside …]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12666 msg-48028 Mon, 11 May 2026 06:06:08 -0400 MadaboutDana An attractive concept, but a very personal one. Frankly, all the messing about with frontmatter attributes, tagging etc. to produce databases, meta-glossaries etc. is a bit OTT (in fact, my appalled discovery that I was rapidly succumbing to the CRIMPer's ultimate temptation – to Optimise my System – is why I removed Dataview from Obsidian!). But otherwise, Silverbullet is a rather attractive piece of software. https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12667 msg-48027 Mon, 11 May 2026 06:03:31 -0400 MadaboutDana Heh, love that – maybe it's the Ultimate Justification for being a CRIMPer – to become a butterfly emerging from a constraining chrysalis, leaving the "digital clutter" behind... Goodness knows I've exactly the same experience! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12667 msg-48024 Sun, 10 May 2026 06:49:30 -0400 rafael costacurta A phenomenon occurs every time I switch tools: a large part of the content accumulated over months in the old tool ends up being left behind and is almost never revisited. Even today, I still have a few hundred open tasks in OmniFocus despite not having used it for a few years. The same goes for hundreds of other notes in Evernote that I also haven't accessed in a long time, and the list goes on; OneNote, WorkFlowy, Obsidian, AmpleNote, Nirvana, etc... During the first month after switchin Maybe it's just me, but I really struggle to adopt any new outliner or notetaking program that doesn't provide for bulk importing from other apps. Is that a difficult thing for programmers to do? I've seen a number of very interesting programs, such as (if I remember correctly) Capacities, Walling and xTiles, that say bulk importing is planned but have been saying that for a long time.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12667 msg-48023 Fri, 08 May 2026 16:30:28 -0400 MadaboutDana You are not wrong, but yes, bulk importing from e.g. proprietary formats is (very) hard. Which is why so many of the best notetaking apps use folders + markdown files as their basic content – because that approach is totally open and easy to import/export to just about anything. exatty95 wrote: >Maybe it's just me, but I really struggle to adopt any new outliner or notetaking program that doesn't provide for bulk importing from other apps. Is that a difficult thing for programmers to do? I'v Maybe it's just me, but I really struggle to adopt any new outliner or notetaking program that doesn't provide for bulk importing from other apps. Is that a difficult thing for programmers to do? I've seen a number of very interesting programs, such as (if I remember correctly) Capacities, Walling and xTiles, that say bulk importing is planned but have been saying that for a long time.]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12657 msg-48022 Fri, 08 May 2026 16:28:28 -0400 MadaboutDana Or maybe they could be sorted (if so desired) by Newest First? But hey, it's brilliant anyway! Paul Korm wrote: >Chris, could threads slew down to the last entry read? Like in Discourse. (Just for threads created since the redesign, obviously.) Chris, could threads slew down to the last entry read? Like in Discourse. (Just for threads created since the redesign, obviously.)]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12665 msg-48021 Fri, 08 May 2026 16:27:17 -0400 MadaboutDana That's a point – I'd forgotten that Notebooks can concatenate. Thanks for reminding me! https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12665 msg-48020 Fri, 08 May 2026 13:12:59 -0400 satis MadaboutDana wrote: >Sadly, the only really simple writing app on macOS that used to do this was Novellus, but that's now disappeared from the Mac App Store NovellusSoftware seems to have shut down; perhaps it's pivoted to https://novellusai.com/ Alfons Schmid's Notebooks, discussed recently in another thread, has a compile/concatenate engine that lets you toggle a Combined View of a selected folder or multiple docs, and stitches them into one long scroll for reading or editing. It also Sadly, the only really simple writing app on macOS that used to do this was Novellus, but that's now disappeared from the Mac App Store NovellusSoftware seems to have shut down; perhaps it's pivoted to https://novellusai.com/ Alfons Schmid's Notebooks, discussed recently in another thread, has a compile/concatenate engine that lets you toggle a Combined View of a selected folder or multiple docs, and stitches them into one long scroll for reading or editing. It also lets you use your own folders instead of a proprietary or hidden database. Storyist, which I have only played with, feels much more like a traditional word processor. It treats chapters and scenes as separate items in a sidebar and naturally scrolls from one scene into the next, so it sort of concatenates. It also has a decent integrated outlining tool (in addition to writer-sprecific tools like corkboard/scene index cards). It's mainly designed to be a simpler but more modern and robust competitor to Scrivener, whose development has largely stalled in recent years and is apparently problematic for some Windows users. (I own Scrivener but for various reasons I dislike it, and I'm always on the lookout for something better than Ulysses.)]]> https://outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/12657 msg-48019 Fri, 08 May 2026 10:54:55 -0400 Skywatcher Wait, we can now ? EDIT : Yes, we can !!! Paul Korm wrote: >The ability to edit my posts is the best feature. The ability to edit my posts is the best feature.]]>