OwnerBuilderBook.com - Forums

Architects as Costly Stumbling Blocks?

Joe in hermiston, OR — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:00:35 GMT

Has anyone thought of or used a high school architecture class to to most of the preliminary design work. Then go to an architect or designer to ensure code compliance. This would seem to minimize the expensive time an architect would charge for the whole thing. Just a thought.

Saving $50,000 on Driveway

Mary in Lititz, PA — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:03:16 GMT

An option to further contain costs might be to consider one type of paving for the turn off from the road and near the house (i.e. the nice stuff) and another type (concrete pavers) for the "thousands of sq. ft of drive over" area in between. Not sure what the transitions between materials would be like, that would need to be worked out for levelness and "looks".

Architects as Costly Stumbling Blocks?

Kenneth in Lees Summit, MO — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:05:39 GMT

Lets not paint all architects as out-of-touch. Certainly for a high-end luwury palace type application an architect is a requirement, but in these situations money becomes secondary. However not all architects focus on luxury and high-end design, many focus on the lower end of the spectrum including subsidized housing and low-income design. If you are intending to build as frugally as possible, and to use your building materials to the maximum extent, I would suggest you also need an architect. However this likely wouldn't be the same architect you would hire for your high-end luxury palace either.

As with any subcontractors you hire, you need to check out their work, get references, and follow-up. If the clients identify that the architect drew them great plans out-of-touch with the cost of construction, I would cross that architect off my list and continue searching.

On a side note, when I was looking for plans I interviewed both architects and residential designers. The highest cost proposal came from a residential designer, as did the lowest cost proposal. The architects weren't necessarily more expensive than residential designers.

Also when my architect developed his preliminary plans I shared them to various subs to get their input on design changes to make their jobs easier. When it came time to build, almost every sub identified that this was one of the first houses they had ever seen plans for that specifically included their needs in the design, although this was a function of my action more than the architect.

Architects as Costly Stumbling Blocks?

david in greenville, SC — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:41:35 GMT

Hey Mary,

Assuming you're still reading this forum I have a little bit to add to what Faye suggested about the stock plan route. Certainly stock plans can give you guidance on the type of layout, features, and general style of house you would like. They can be helpful in giving a potential builder insight on what you are trying to accomplish.

However, stock plans are just that, stock. Otherwise known as generic. Any cost estimates based strictly on generic plans will return generic estimates that may or may not reflect what the actual cost to build will be once you have made specific choices about a myriad of things need to get a more accurate estimate. What interior and exterior finishes will you choose? What type of HVAC system will you have? What type of lighting, plumbing, and appliances will you select? What will need to be done to adapt the home to your site? Those are just a few considerations. You will also have to make sure the plans meet code for your area. If not then you will have to have them modified so that they do.

No disrespect to any of the many plan magazines or posters here who may have used them. But stock plans are rarely useful for more than just gathering ideas. In reality, the only time you will save money using stock plans is when you use those plans a local builder already has on hand and has done the code legwork beforehand. Otherwise, you will have to buy a set of plans at significant cost. Generally several hundred dollars and up. You will have to have them inspected for code compliance. If they don't comply you will have to have them revised until they do. At the very least you will have to modify the home to fit the site and generally you will probably want something changed about the layout. Whether that be traffic patterns or room sizes. All this costs money. A good residential designer or even the builders draftsman could likely come up with a similar site specific and code compliant design for the same money or less than making a stock plan work.

As always there are exceptions that go both ways. However, anyone considering building their own home typically has some specific ideas about what they want and what they don't. And, again, typically a stock plan won't meet those ideals without enough modifications and expense to equal or exceed what could have been done from the start with a good designer and a good grasp of what you, the client, need and want.

Energy

Pete in Cannon Beach, OR — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:33:46 GMT

Good point. I live near the ocean, with a pretty good day-night temperature swing and built with ICF. It is quite efficient BUT I never have warm floors. (Nearly all tile.) The hot water radiant system runs so rarely that the floors never get that extra heat. So I get cold feet when I go shoeless. And I was really looking forward to that warm feeling.

Rainwater Flush

Pete in Cannon Beach, OR — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:13:58 GMT

check with a water guy on this -- the people who put in filtration systems. I asked the man who installed my filters (about $6K because our well water has unacceptably high level of iron), about this, saying I regretted not doing it, and he said I should have no regrets because three of his customers with split systems had enough problems that they were sorry they did it.

But I have no details beyond that.

If you are on a halfway decent well, the savings would sure be small. Might make sense in places like Portland OR where your sewer bill is based on your water use.

You would probably get a bigger return on investing in some way to cut the electric costs on your well pump.

Good intentions

Rachal in Janesville, CA — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:19:02 GMT

Great idea. I will have a wood stove for my primary heat. I budgeted $1000 for one, but as you said, maybe I can find a good deal this time of the year. I will start shopping for one.

I did a little shopping for toilets. I could buy two dual flush toilets for a little over $600.

My Mother-in-law is great! She must have gone to Mother-in-law school and passed with an A+. She would never want anything in return, and she is never critical of my crazy ideas. (like building my own house)

In the end it would be much better to say, "You're gift of $600 will keep our family warm and cozy through the winter." rather than say, "You're gift of $600 will be remembered every time we flush."

Thanks

Saving $50,000 on Driveway

Rachal in Janesville, CA — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:09:24 GMT

Don't forget the value of teenage boys. When I have projects such as these I often can find teenagers that want to earn some money. They usually don't stay around for the whole project. I would set up the road bed and when I'm ready to move tile have them do the picking up and placing.

Where does one find teenage boys? I call everyone I know and pass the word around work. I always feed and water the teenagers, which is something you don't have to do with contractors.

I don't envy the job ahead of you. What kind of maintenance does a road that size require? Will you have to dump tons of herbicides on it every year?

Offsetting costs through timber sales?

Yvonne in Helena, AL — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:46:08 GMT

When we built our home a couple of years ago, we had a large amount of pine and hickory trees. We had wanted to use the wood for flooring and after researching and talking to mill people, it was going to take a huge amount of time and effort to get the logs to the mill house to cut, we had to transport them to a drying facility and then bring them back to be cut into flooring strips. By the time we added it all up, the cost became very prohibitive. Not sure if things are different now with the big slowdown in construction, but it wasn't worth it for us.

Architects as Costly Stumbling Blocks?

Faye in Marseilles, IL — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:53:29 GMT

Mary ,

You are looking for a small average home and have budget concerns - have you

considered looking at stock plans ? There are literally thousands and thousands of

great stock plans out there and for a fee they will also give you a cost to build estimate .

That may be a much less costly way to go . You can even have your builder take a

look at the print online prior to purchasing the print . It should give him enough info

for a ballpark estimate .

Tile and Stone online

Pat in Playa del Rey, CA — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:09:18 GMT

Also, http://www.buildirect.com and www.travetinemart.com have great prices on stone.

Architects as Costly Stumbling Blocks?

Pat in Playa del Rey, CA — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:07:02 GMT

In my opinion, Architects are not in touch with the cost of things like Builders are on a daily basis. Consequently, we went through our builder that is doing the SIPS and ICFS, to finalize our concept and construction drawings. He also stated he saw too many times people coming in with their architect's plans, to discover it was way out of their price range.

Saving $50,000 on Driveway

Pat in Playa del Rey, CA — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:57:50 GMT

We own a tractor with a bucket and forks, for lifting pallets, so we would just have to rent the vibrator/compactor. We've already priced the edging and the sand so that's also factored.

Concrete pavers are definitely an option should we run short on money, but they won't have the look or value that travertine would have.

Okay, maybe only 6 days a week. HA! We are both workaholics.

Saving $50,000 on Driveway

Michael in Cave Creek, AZ — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:18:10 GMT

You may also want to consider concrete pavers. For a driveway of this size consider using 6 x 9 or 9 x 9 pavers if available. The delivered cost should be between $1.40 and $2.00 per square foot potentially saving a fair bit of materials.

Before you embark down the path of doing this project yourself without a crew of laborers consider the scale of your project and your rental equipment needs.
To do this job you will also need a vibratory plate compactor and a bobcat or small tractor with a loader and a gannon. You will be moving 50 to 100 tons of sand in addition to the pavers.Don't forget to include the cost of your sand base, equipment and edging materials. Keep in mind that your own labor isn't really free -- you could always be doing something else. Does spending time relaxing have value? Now? During your build? Doing that with a wheel barrow and a shovel is back breaking. If I remember right pavers come in 100 SF pallets so you would be receiving 100 plus pallets of pavers. A person can lay only one to two pallets a day.

It is probably unrealistic to expect anyone to work on laying pavers seven consecutive days per week due to fatigue.

This is a highly ambituous DIY project based on the sheer weight of the materials involved. If you go for it expect to be in great shape by the time you are done.

Cost Estimate

Mike in Topeka, KS — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:18:44 GMT

Trisha,

Below is a list of subs that are from the Topeka Area.

	Name	Number
Excavator	Dean Brown	785-224-3306
Septic	AZ Septic - Randy Murray	785-286-2945
Foundation - Concrete	Gold Star Concrete - Larry Law	785-273-3129
Framer/Siding	Mike Drippe Construction	785-207-5888
Roofer	Gardner Roofing - Jim	(785) 228-0088?
Plumber	D&J Plumbing- Dave	785-224-8046
Electrical	M&M - Tim	785-640-1290
HVAC	Modern Air - Les Brandt	785-232-1174
Insulation
Drywall	Brobst Drywall Rob Brost	785-845-4796
Stone	Canyon Stone - Kay Owens	canyonstones.com
Interior Trim - Cabinets	Mike Drippe Construction	785-207-5888

Framing Material	St. Mary's Lumber	(785) 437-2268?

Saving $50,000 on Driveway

Pat in Playa del Rey, CA — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:46:10 GMT

We have a whopping 11,000SF driveway planned at our new house. This includes the circle driveway, with the approach drive being 16' wide by 425' long. Our county requires a hard surface on the driveway, so you can't leave it just gravel or roadbase. Asphalt bids were coming in at $50,000+ and of course everything else was up from there.

I found 2 alternatives. One was to use www.polypavement.com which is a polymer mixed with your gravel and then compacted to a hard surface. Bids came in for the finished driveway at $25,000 with this product, which is $2.28 SF

My second option, which we are going with, is to use travertine driveway pavers. We found pavers at www.travertinemart.com to be around $2.50 SF and that is the deliveried cost. They are in Florida and we are in California, so shipping is obviously an important factor. We also found slightly cheaper travertine pavers through www.Builddirect.com at $2.39 SF but the sample we recieved doesn't look as good as the sample from travertinemart. These pavers are 8" x 16" and will be set in sand over a 6" gravel base. This will enable that massive amount of rain runoff to not run off but drain through the driveway. Very important considering our driveway is on a steep hill. Now, you ask where is the savings? We can lay the pavers ourselves, whereas all other driveway finishes we can't. I can't count how many DIY shows we have watched on laying your own driveway pavers. It's simple, but time consuming. We figure it will take us about 3 weeks, working 7 days a week, to get lay the entire driveway. However, once finished that driveway should be worth about $80,000+ in value and only costing us about $30,000 in materials. It's an all around win-win for us.

Pat

Arnold, California

ANY LUCK WITH FINANCING?

Pat in Playa del Rey, CA — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:12:00 GMT

Pacific State Bank in California is still doing owner/builder loans. I just talked with them 2 weeks ago and that is who we are going to use this fall.

Good intentions

Gerald in Pensacola, FL — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:58:11 GMT

Wow! That's great that you trust your Mother-In-Law. If mine gave me money I would be wondering what strings were attached. :-)

But I do have a suggestion... If your plans call for a fireplace, you can usually pick up a nice fireplace insert unit for around that price this time of year since fireplaces are out of season and are on clearance. That would be something visible that you can attribute to her gift.

Good luck!

Offsetting costs through timber sales?

Wally in Lillian, AL — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:12:08 GMT

Hello Caley,

Using lumber on the land might provide a savings but examine the numbers carefully first. I wouldn't use the pine for framing unless it had been kiln dried first. If you use green wood for framing it can twist, check, warp, etc. which may cause the drywall to pop the top coat over the fasteners.

That means that you have to consider the cost of drying in addition to the cost of the mill and your time. Make a good estimate for the time it would take to harvest and process the wood and then consider what you might earn if you just took on a part-time job for the same amont of time.

On the other hand, I think you might be able to sell the pines to an indpendent pulp wood timberman. They might cut the trees and haul them and give you a small fee for the trees.

W Hodge

Lillian, AL

Mikey Block

Michelle in Tucson, AZ — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:25:05 GMT

Hi,

We are thinking about using Mikey Block to build our home. Has anyone on this site used their product?

http://www.mikeyblock.com/

I appreciate any advise, experience and opinions.

Thanks!