<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" media="screen" href="/~d/styles/atom10full.xsl"?><?xml-stylesheet type="text/css" media="screen" href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~d/styles/itemcontent.css"?><feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:openSearch="http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearch/1.1/" xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:gd="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005" xmlns:thr="http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0" xmlns:feedburner="http://rssnamespace.org/feedburner/ext/1.0" gd:etag="W/&quot;DEAER3s_eyp7ImA9WhVSE0s.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632</id><updated>2012-03-10T00:05:06.543-08:00</updated><category term="Hitchens" /><category term="Russell" /><category term="Guest Posts and Reviews" /><category term="PZ Meyers" /><category term="History" /><category term="Misc." /><category term="philosophy" /><category term="Dawkins" /><category term="Bible" /><category term="science" /><category term="lds" /><title>Philosophies of Men Mingled With Scripture</title><subtitle type="html">An attempt to reconcile the claims of religion with the ideas and discoveries of science and philosophy.</subtitle><link rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/" /><link rel="next" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default?start-index=26&amp;max-results=25&amp;redirect=false&amp;v=2" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><generator version="7.00" uri="http://www.blogger.com">Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>76</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>25</openSearch:itemsPerPage><atom10:link xmlns:atom10="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture" /><feedburner:info uri="philosophiesofmenmingledwithscripture" /><atom10:link xmlns:atom10="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" rel="hub" href="http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/" /><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;CUQDSXg5eSp7ImA9WhVSEkg.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-7410631043079252743</id><published>2012-03-08T16:23:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-08T16:36:18.621-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-08T16:36:18.621-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Bible" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>The Argument from Parsimony</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kMfksrxh5z4/T1lK3DWuazI/AAAAAAAABqA/vK182G7IFsI/s1600/Occam's+Razor+Shirt+--LAST+CHANCE--.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kMfksrxh5z4/T1lK3DWuazI/AAAAAAAABqA/vK182G7IFsI/s320/Occam's+Razor+Shirt+--LAST+CHANCE--.png" width="135" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;Occam's Razor&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
The Argument from Parsimony is an argument against the&amp;nbsp;existence&amp;nbsp;of God which claims that because scientific, or naturalistic, theories&amp;nbsp;adequately&amp;nbsp;describe&amp;nbsp;the origin of life and the development of religion, the actual&amp;nbsp;existence&amp;nbsp;of any supernatural beings is an unnecessary detail and may be ignored unless it is shown that we need it to explain some phenomenon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, unless it can be shown that a phenomenon cannot be explained unless there is a God, then we have no reason to think that there is a God. God would complicate the issue rather than work towards resolution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First of all, let me say that there is a difference between parsimony and simplicity. There are many simple theories which are not parsimonious. For example:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yLQJ2_v_LpM/T1lAfiV7s9I/AAAAAAAABpw/3cMEQpwsdNQ/s1600/geocentric.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="240" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yLQJ2_v_LpM/T1lAfiV7s9I/AAAAAAAABpw/3cMEQpwsdNQ/s320/geocentric.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;"The planets and stars are stuck to orbs around the Earth."&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
The geocentric model of the solar system is much simpler than our current view, that the Sun is in the center. The Heliocentric model is so complex that Sir Issac Newton had to develop a new kind of math, &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus#Modern"&gt;calculus&lt;/a&gt;, to describe the motion of celestial bodies and develop the laws of motion and gravitation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But even though the idea of a heliocentric solar system is vastly more complex, it is still more parsimonious because it leaves fewer questions unanswered.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This principle is referred to as &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor"&gt;Occam's Razor&lt;/a&gt;. The idea that the hypothesis that requires fewer assumptions is preferable.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That's actually one of the first weaknesses with this argument. It's presents Occam's Razor as an absolute law, when it is actually just a "rule of thumb".&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is important because there are many, many examples of Occam's Razor stifling or delaying scientific advancement.&amp;nbsp;For example, appeals to simplicity were used to deny meteorites, ball lightning, continental drift, DNA, atomic theory, and reverse transcriptase.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to denying ideas that turned out to be true, Occam's Razor is also used to assert ideas which are false. For example, scientists thought that there must be some medium, &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether"&gt;Aether&lt;/a&gt;, out in space which allowed light waves to propagate, because it was less parsimonious to postulate wave propagation in a vacuum. At the time, all known waves propagated through a physical medium. We now know this to be false.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So the Argument from Parsimony fails immediately just because explanations sometimes reach beyond available data.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, even if the argument was successful, denial of God would bring us no closer to understanding what caused the Big Bang or life on Earth. Even Richard Dawkins admits the possibility of an origin involving intelligent beings (&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/11/ben-stein-interviews-richard-dawkins.html"&gt;3:10&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, imagine yourself holding the end of a long chain. The other end of this chain is not in view, but when you pull on the chain, it it secured. If we were to say that there is nobody holding the other end of the chain, would we be any closer to finding out what is holding the other end? For that matter, do we have any good reason to think there is no one holding the other end? Sure, there may be no evidence that there is, but is there any evidence that there isn't? Like Dawkins, should we at least be open to the possibility of some intelligence on the other side?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would we be making any fewer assumptions if, instead of a person on the other end of the chain, we instead said that it was fastened to some post or bolt in a wall? Or would we then need to explain how that post got there, ad infinitum?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So even if the argument is successful, which it isn't, then it still just doesn't do us any good. It wouldn't even necessary show that God is the less parsimonious&amp;nbsp;hypothesis.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-7410631043079252743?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/62eOGtXk4phxWzx8JOgNtQrrw0A/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/62eOGtXk4phxWzx8JOgNtQrrw0A/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/62eOGtXk4phxWzx8JOgNtQrrw0A/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/62eOGtXk4phxWzx8JOgNtQrrw0A/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/vWX6oXOV9UI" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/7410631043079252743/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/argument-from-parsimony.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7410631043079252743?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7410631043079252743?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/vWX6oXOV9UI/argument-from-parsimony.html" title="The Argument from Parsimony" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kMfksrxh5z4/T1lK3DWuazI/AAAAAAAABqA/vK182G7IFsI/s72-c/Occam's+Razor+Shirt+--LAST+CHANCE--.png" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/argument-from-parsimony.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;AkYCSHc8eCp7ImA9WhVSEUU.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-7529927814588110637</id><published>2012-03-07T22:02:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-07T22:29:29.970-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-07T22:29:29.970-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><title>Bott, Blacks and the Priesthood</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O1IdR5M09EQ/T1hLO33yf7I/AAAAAAAABpo/JO5O33nGR7w/s1600/black-reading-book-of-mormon-thumb-400xauto-31407.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="240" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O1IdR5M09EQ/T1hLO33yf7I/AAAAAAAABpo/JO5O33nGR7w/s320/black-reading-book-of-mormon-thumb-400xauto-31407.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The fact that&amp;nbsp;African-Americans&amp;nbsp;and Africans were not permitted to be ordained as priests in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,&lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng"&gt; until 1978&lt;/a&gt;, is controversial, to say the absolute least, even among members of the church.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In an absolutely absurd &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-genesis-of-a-churchs-stand-on-race/2012/02/22/gIQAQZXyfR_story_2.html"&gt;interview&lt;/a&gt; which I was ashamed to read, this idea was brought to light once again when Prof. Randy Bott, of BYU, was interviewed regarding the ban by the Washington Post. Basically, &lt;i&gt;nothing&lt;/i&gt; Bott says in the interview is doctrine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In one particularly shameful section, he says:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
“God has always been discriminatory” when it comes to whom he grants the authority of the priesthood, says Bott, the BYU theologian. He quotes Mormon scripture that states that the Lord gives to people “all that he seeth fit.” Bott compares blacks with a young child prematurely asking for the keys to her father’s car, and explains that similarly until 1978, the Lord determined that blacks were not yet ready for the priesthood...&amp;nbsp;So, in reality the blacks not having the priesthood was the greatest blessing God could give them.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The LDS church quickly, and rightfully,&lt;a href="http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/racial-remarks-in-washington-post-article"&gt; condemned Bott's comments&lt;/a&gt;, saying:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
"&amp;nbsp;The Church’s position is clear—we believe all people are God’s children and are equal in His eyes and in the Church. We do not tolerate racism in any form...&amp;nbsp;We condemn racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Professor Bott told &lt;a href="http://universe.byu.edu/index.php/2012/02/29/professor-didnt-follow-university-media-policy-when-speaking-with-washington-post/"&gt;The Daily Universe&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;that he wasn't available for comment, but he did release a statement affirming the Church’s view of the article in the Washington Post. However, his students said he discussed the interview in class and said he felt he was misrepresented.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Quinn Rice, a freshman in one of Bott's classes, said,&amp;nbsp;“He said they had a nice long interview, like two hours long. He said that he was misquoted, and misrepresented... He wouldn’t go against the Church’s principles.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-7529927814588110637?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/X97eMMksZz1KsztFx1O_e8RJIoY/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/X97eMMksZz1KsztFx1O_e8RJIoY/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/X97eMMksZz1KsztFx1O_e8RJIoY/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/X97eMMksZz1KsztFx1O_e8RJIoY/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/2kdFHUQZgpc" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/7529927814588110637/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/bott-blacks-and-priesthood.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7529927814588110637?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7529927814588110637?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/2kdFHUQZgpc/bott-blacks-and-priesthood.html" title="Bott, Blacks and the Priesthood" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O1IdR5M09EQ/T1hLO33yf7I/AAAAAAAABpo/JO5O33nGR7w/s72-c/black-reading-book-of-mormon-thumb-400xauto-31407.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/bott-blacks-and-priesthood.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;D08BRnc6cCp7ImA9WhVSEEw.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-3484307594198613519</id><published>2012-03-05T22:37:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-05T22:37:37.918-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-05T22:37:37.918-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Bible" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Mormon Creation</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BSPIvYELqbw/T1WbNnxtMsI/AAAAAAAABo0/Y5m0d1Xy5qk/s1600/dc+Science+and+Religion+Faith+and+Reason.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="216" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BSPIvYELqbw/T1WbNnxtMsI/AAAAAAAABo0/Y5m0d1Xy5qk/s400/dc+Science+and+Religion+Faith+and+Reason.jpg" width="400" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
A while ago, I had a discussion with a reader about the LDS doctrine of Creation (&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2010/12/scientific-creation.html"&gt;See Comments&lt;/a&gt;). Mainstream Christianity and science say that the Universe was created in an instant, from nothing, though they disagree on how long it took.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reader pointed out a supposed inconsistency in LDS doctrine, because Joseph Smith taught that &lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.33?lang=eng#32"&gt;matter is eternal&lt;/a&gt;, which would seem to indicate a &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_State_theory"&gt;steady state universe&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I pointed out that this does not mean that the Church supports the steady state theory. After all, Joseph Smith taught that "Spirit" was a type of matter, and Spirit is eternal. Therefore, he was not necessarily referring to the physical universe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are other issues, such as the mysterious nature of the Singularity, which leave Joseph Smith's comments rather ambiguous. Ultimately, the church has no official position on how the Creation happened, and it allows its members to believe what best makes sense to them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, I recently came across this quote by the second President of the Church, Brigham Young:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
In these respects we differ from the Christian world, for our religion will not clash with or contradict the facts of science in any particular...whether the Lord found the earth empty and void, whether he made it out of nothing or out of the rude elements; or whether he made it in six days or in as many millions of years, is and will remain a matter of speculation in the minds of men unless he give revelation on the subject. If we understood the process of creation there would be no mystery about it, it would be all reasonable and plain, for there is no mystery except to the ignorant.&lt;br /&gt;—Brigham Young, (May 14, 1871) &lt;a href="http://en.fairmormon.org/Journal_of_Discourses/14/16#116"&gt;Journal of Discourses 14:116&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The context of this quote is Brigham Young commenting on the relationship between science and religion. The religionists of the day pushed the idea that God "made the earth out of nothing in six days, six thousand years ago."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Brigham Young says that in these respects we differ from Christians because, as I explained to this reader, we do not make this claim. We do not know exactly how the Creation happened, but "our religion will not clash with or contradict the facts of science in any particular."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whatever science says, we agree.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-3484307594198613519?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/UqfOcpmmecrLO_JxaBQW6I06bE0/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/UqfOcpmmecrLO_JxaBQW6I06bE0/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/UqfOcpmmecrLO_JxaBQW6I06bE0/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/UqfOcpmmecrLO_JxaBQW6I06bE0/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/eyI8etR1ngs" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/3484307594198613519/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/mormon-creation.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/3484307594198613519?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/3484307594198613519?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/eyI8etR1ngs/mormon-creation.html" title="Mormon Creation" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BSPIvYELqbw/T1WbNnxtMsI/AAAAAAAABo0/Y5m0d1Xy5qk/s72-c/dc+Science+and+Religion+Faith+and+Reason.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/mormon-creation.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;CEcMR3g-fCp7ImA9WhVSEE0.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-8459713219001192513</id><published>2012-03-05T03:14:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-05T18:48:06.654-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-05T18:48:06.654-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="History" /><title>Christianity's Bloody History</title><content type="html">&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d4SNEauzQLc/T1SdYdUqFZI/AAAAAAAABos/I1A0cqDh4yY/s1600/6a00d8341bf68b53ef01156fb855cc970c-800wi.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="238" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d4SNEauzQLc/T1SdYdUqFZI/AAAAAAAABos/I1A0cqDh4yY/s320/6a00d8341bf68b53ef01156fb855cc970c-800wi.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;I bet you weren't expecting this.&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
"Ours is a terrible religion. The fleets of the world could swim in spacious comfort in the innocent blood it has spilt." -&amp;nbsp;Mark Twain, &lt;i&gt;Reflections on Religion&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Christianity is often criticized because of its violent history. I've show elsewhere that &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/religious-violence.html"&gt;religious violence&lt;/a&gt; has not caused nearly as much bloodshed as some other causes which we still actively promote today, such as&amp;nbsp;capitalism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, even if Christianity has caused a fair amount of suffering, which it has, holding modern Christianity accountable is irrational and a double standard.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is because there are plenty of other organizations have caused millions of deaths and yet they are hailed as symbols of progress and innovation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, IBM developed the&amp;nbsp;punch card&amp;nbsp;technology that measured large-scale statistical information and provided these machines to the Nazi regime, making the deadly&amp;nbsp;efficiency&amp;nbsp;of the Holocaust possible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nobody protests IBM or proposes that we eradicate it in the way that some wish we would abolish religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/8796157/BMW-dynasty-breaks-silence-over-Nazi-past.html"&gt;BMW&lt;/a&gt; had a hand in the Holocaust, as well. Factories used around &lt;a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042405/Family-dynasty-BMW-admits-using-50-000-slave-labourers-Nazi-era.html"&gt;50,000&lt;/a&gt; slave laborers from concentration camps to supply weapons and ammunition to the regime.&amp;nbsp;Hundreds of these labourers died from working in the inhumane conditions and others were executed. BMW produced the Luftwaffe's Fighter Plane engines, as well. BMW was also discovered to have profited from taking over dozens of businesses seized from Jewish families by the Nazis. Incidentally, Mitsubishi built Japanese fighter engines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nobody wants to abolish BMW or Mitsubishi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Perhaps the most extreme example is the US Democratic Party. Democrats have historically represented the interests of white, male, slave-holding Southern farmers. It fought hard to preserve and expand a &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/religious-violence.html"&gt;slave trade&lt;/a&gt; that ended more human lives than the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Witch Hunts and 9/11 combined. These efforts were a major cause of the American Civil War, which killed or wounded another 800,000.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To be honest, some people do want Democrats to just go away, but not even for this reason. They don't care about the Democratic Party's bloody history any more than anyone cares about BMW, Mitsubishi or IBM.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why don't we care? Because it's in the past, and because we judge these organizations by what they &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt;, not by what they &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt;. These organization's no longer promote&amp;nbsp;African&amp;nbsp;slavery, or assist&amp;nbsp;tyrannical&amp;nbsp;despots in racial genocide and global domination. In most cases, the unscrupulous people behind these endeavor's are not even alive anymore and the organizations have gone in totally different directions. These charges are simply no longer&amp;nbsp;relevant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Except when it comes to Christianity. I can't speak for other religions, but Christianity is simply no longer an organization that would attempt to control the Holy Land at all costs, hunt down and kill witches, or torture and execute dissenters. Nevertheless, we are clearly practicing a sort of double standard by picking and choosing which terrible atrocities we're willing to forgive.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Am I arguing that Christianity is perfect? No. Just as BMW and Mitsubishi still produce machines that kill &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/science-flies-you-to-moon-religion.html"&gt;35-40,000&lt;/a&gt; people annually, Christianity has it's flaws, too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But if we are going to forgive other organizations for the terrible things they've done in the past, then we must forgive Christianity, which hasn't even been the most destructive of the bunch. Otherwise, we're just being biased, bigoted, and irrational.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-8459713219001192513?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ESrQwg_iaHe5DbLB6gC4TjYZ_04/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ESrQwg_iaHe5DbLB6gC4TjYZ_04/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ESrQwg_iaHe5DbLB6gC4TjYZ_04/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ESrQwg_iaHe5DbLB6gC4TjYZ_04/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/GOvNdP_p-zY" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/8459713219001192513/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/christianitys-bloody-history.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8459713219001192513?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8459713219001192513?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/GOvNdP_p-zY/christianitys-bloody-history.html" title="Christianity's Bloody History" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d4SNEauzQLc/T1SdYdUqFZI/AAAAAAAABos/I1A0cqDh4yY/s72-c/6a00d8341bf68b53ef01156fb855cc970c-800wi.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/christianitys-bloody-history.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;D0YDSH0zfSp7ImA9WhVTF0Q.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-5380904941511999139</id><published>2012-03-03T00:00:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-03T09:19:39.385-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-03T09:19:39.385-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><title>The Book of Mormon Challenge</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vWn4iG5DJJA/T1CJ9OqrNlI/AAAAAAAABl8/LCe7x3UakVM/s1600/parson-translation_HR.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vWn4iG5DJJA/T1CJ9OqrNlI/AAAAAAAABl8/LCe7x3UakVM/s320/parson-translation_HR.jpg" width="239" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
The existence of the Book of Mormon is a serious puzzle if it is not an ancient text, translated into English, as it claims. We are often told the Joseph Smith concocted and wrote the story himself. However, if he did write it himself, it would almost be no less amazing that a 21 year old farm boy in 1830 with only two years of formal education could produce such a book.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following text is taken from the&lt;i&gt; Collected Works of Hugh Nibley&lt;/i&gt;, Vol. 8, Ch. 11, pp. 221-2:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
"Since Joseph Smith was younger than most of you and not nearly so experienced or well-educated as any of you at the time he copyrighted the Book of Mormon, it should not be too much to ask you to hand in by the end of the semester (which will give you more time than he had) a paper of, say, five to six hundred pages in length. Call it a sacred book if you will, and give it the form of a history. Tell of a community of wandering Jews in ancient times; have all sorts of characters in your story, and involve them in all sorts of public and private vicissitudes; give them names--hundreds of them--pretending that they are real Hebrew and Egyptian names of circa 600 b.c.; be lavish with cultural and technical details--manners and customs, arts and industries, political and religious institutions, rites, and traditions, include long and complicated military and economic histories; have your narrative cover a thousand years without any large gaps; keep a number of interrelated local histories going at once; feel free to introduce religious controversy and philosophical discussion, but always in a plausible setting; observe the appropriate literary conventions and explain the derivation and transmission of your varied historical materials.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
"Above all, do not ever contradict yourself! For now we come to the really hard part of this little assignment. You and I know that you are making this all up--we have our little joke--but just the same you are going to be required to have your paper published when you finish it, not as fiction or romance, but as a true history! After you have handed it in you may make no changes in it (in this class we always use the first edition of the Book of Mormon); what is more, you are to invite any and all scholars to read and criticize your work freely, explaining to them that it is a sacred book on a par with the Bible. If they seem over-skeptical, you might tell them that you translated the book from original records by the aid of the Urim and Thummim--they will love that! Further to allay their misgivings, you might tell them that the original manuscript was on golden plates, and that you got the plates from an angel. Now go to work and good luck!&amp;nbsp;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
"To date no student has carried out this assignment, which, of course, was not meant seriously. But why not? If anybody could write the Book of Mormon, as we have been so often assured, it is high time that somebody, some devoted and learned minister of the gospel, let us say, performed the invaluable public service of showing the world that it can be done."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hugh Nibley never expected any of his students to accomplish this task. Even with the use of modern information technologies, the assignment is almost impossible. For a 21 year old farm boy to produce a 500+ page "ancient text" in two months which would cover every aspect of ancient life, yet not be conclusively proven false by the world's scholars for almost 200 years is a daunting task.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But if, as critics say, anyone could do it, then why haven't we seen it done, or even attempted?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-5380904941511999139?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/0ttw5gHyvriBlS543D9CTvYagaQ/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/0ttw5gHyvriBlS543D9CTvYagaQ/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/0ttw5gHyvriBlS543D9CTvYagaQ/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/0ttw5gHyvriBlS543D9CTvYagaQ/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/hhrZ9Lm61NQ" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/5380904941511999139/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/book-of-mormon-challlenge.html#comment-form" title="2 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5380904941511999139?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5380904941511999139?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/hhrZ9Lm61NQ/book-of-mormon-challlenge.html" title="The Book of Mormon Challenge" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vWn4iG5DJJA/T1CJ9OqrNlI/AAAAAAAABl8/LCe7x3UakVM/s72-c/parson-translation_HR.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>2</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/book-of-mormon-challlenge.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;D0UFR3Yzfyp7ImA9WhVTFko.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-2029481557431576496</id><published>2012-03-02T00:00:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-02T00:00:16.887-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-02T00:00:16.887-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Dawkins" /><title>Dawkins Gets Nailed, So To Speak</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L1om7tAR62g/T1AvfJpJxBI/AAAAAAAABlk/Zl_qCI9dtTM/s1600/Richard_Dawkins_35th_American_Atheists_Convention.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L1om7tAR62g/T1AvfJpJxBI/AAAAAAAABlk/Zl_qCI9dtTM/s320/Richard_Dawkins_35th_American_Atheists_Convention.jpg" width="217" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
"We are machines built by DNA whose purpose is to make more copies of the same DNA. Flowers are for the same thing as everything else in the living kingdoms, for spreading 'copy - me' programmes about, written in DNA language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That is EXACTLY what we are for. We are machines for propagating DNA, and the propagation of DNA is a self sustaining process. It is every living objects' sole reason for living..." - Richard Dawkins&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RHOJAdRp968/T1Axpu9wJnI/AAAAAAAABls/4jbYtDRByvk/s1600/chesterton.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RHOJAdRp968/T1Axpu9wJnI/AAAAAAAABls/4jbYtDRByvk/s320/chesterton.jpg" width="250" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
"You are merely handing on to him a problem you dare not settle yourself. It is as if a man were asked, "What is the use of a hammer?" and answered, "To make hammers"; and when asked, "And of those hammers, what is the use?" answered, "To make hammers again". Just as such a man would be perpetually putting off the question of the ultimate use of carpentry, so... all the rest of us are by these phrases successfully putting off the question of the ultimate value of the human life." - G. K. Chesterton&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-2029481557431576496?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/WlcugP9ejoUaVbQDC-LxzaR7fxs/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/WlcugP9ejoUaVbQDC-LxzaR7fxs/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/WlcugP9ejoUaVbQDC-LxzaR7fxs/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/WlcugP9ejoUaVbQDC-LxzaR7fxs/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/cKddq14g5Pk" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/2029481557431576496/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/dawkins-gets-nailed-so-to-speak.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/2029481557431576496?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/2029481557431576496?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/cKddq14g5Pk/dawkins-gets-nailed-so-to-speak.html" title="Dawkins Gets Nailed, So To Speak" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L1om7tAR62g/T1AvfJpJxBI/AAAAAAAABlk/Zl_qCI9dtTM/s72-c/Richard_Dawkins_35th_American_Atheists_Convention.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/dawkins-gets-nailed-so-to-speak.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;AkQAQHg8eip7ImA9WhVSEUU.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-5429791282152310864</id><published>2012-03-01T13:59:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-07T22:32:21.672-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-07T22:32:21.672-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Science Flies You To The Moon. Religion Flies You Into Buildings.</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f1Z5kMbK9Fo/T0_gkWcJRnI/AAAAAAAABlM/O_88dm36Z0M/s1600/276876_217596264961421_1950484516_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f1Z5kMbK9Fo/T0_gkWcJRnI/AAAAAAAABlM/O_88dm36Z0M/s1600/276876_217596264961421_1950484516_n.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
The graphic above has been circulating around the internet for some time now, but I saw it recently and started really thinking of the implications of it and how ridiculous the thought process behind it is.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First of all, it's a logical fallacy. It's an appeal to emotion. It asks you to suspend the thinking part of your brain and just focus on an emotion (anger or sorrow over 9/11) rather than an actual idea. Then it ties the&amp;nbsp;scapegoat, religion, to that emotion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, it's too simplistic. It equates "science" with space travel, and "religion" with 9/11. It completely ignores all the terrible things science has done (Nagasaki and Hiroshima, Napalm, Chem Warfare, the invention of firearms.) Even the automobile kills more than what this graphic calls "religion". In the United States alone, 35,000 to 40,000 people are killed by automotive accidents every year. That means that since 9/11, cars have killed about 385,000 people. Thank you, Science.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, it ignores the good done by religion. The&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDS_Humanitarian_Services"&gt; LDS church alone&lt;/a&gt;, in 2008, provided aid to 3.3 million people in 122 countries, and since 1985 help has been given to 23 million people in 163 nations.&amp;nbsp;From 1985 - 2009, $327.6 million in cash and $884.6 million in commodities of aid was given throughout 178 countries. These services include, Emergency response, wheelchair distribution, The Clean Water Service, the Neonatal&amp;nbsp;Resuscitation&amp;nbsp;Program, and the Vision Treatment Training program.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2011 was also a big year for&lt;a href="http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/2011-costly-year-global-disasters"&gt; LDS disaster relief and humanitarian aid&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to these efforts, the LDS Church also has over 300 job development and placement centers around the world. In 2001, the LDS Church began the Perpetual Education Fund which provides money to cover tuition and other school expenses to people in developing nations. As of 2007, tens of thousands of individuals had been given assistance. So far this program has operated primarily in South America and Oceana. The LDS Church has also begun producing a nutrition-rich porridge named Atmit to help during acute famines. The LDS Church Welfare program owns farms, ranches, canneries, and other food producing facilities to provide temporary food relief for families and individuals. LDS Humanitarian Services frequently works with other charities and NGOs such as the Red Cross, Catholic charities and even various Islamic charities for which the LDS Church has produced halaal food.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clearly, there's more to consider than aviation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Third, even if we were to equate "science" with spaceflight and "religion" with commercial airline disasters, then Science's record still wouldn't be too good compared to Religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, there about 15 million commercial flights&amp;nbsp;annually, worldwide. That means that since 9/11, there have been about 165,000,000 flights. How many of these has religion flown into buildings? Four. Two into the WTC, one into the Pentagon, and I'm counting the failed attempt that ended up in a Pennsylvania field.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That means that your odds of having "religion" fly your plane into a building is 0.000000024%.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
"Science" has flown 291 manned spaceflights since 1961.&amp;nbsp;As of November 2004, 439 individuals had flown on spaceflights, and 22 astronauts had died.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That means that your odds of having "science" kill you and your entire crew is about 5%.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That means that "science" is 208,333,333.33 times more likely to blow you up in the air than "religion."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HLhNiXdofwg/T1ASGWLbw1I/AAAAAAAABlc/7t7y3SBek7g/s1600/740px-Challenger_explosion.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="259" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HLhNiXdofwg/T1ASGWLbw1I/AAAAAAAABlc/7t7y3SBek7g/s320/740px-Challenger_explosion.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;"One of these days, Alice! One of these days!&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;nbsp;BANG! Straight to the moon!!"&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;nbsp;- Ralph Kramden on Space Travel&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And that's not counting &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents#Percentage_of_fatal_spaceflights"&gt;non-astronaut fatalities during spaceflights&lt;/a&gt;. 305 civilians have been killed as the result of spaceflight accidents, including up to 100 dead in Xichang, China, where the&amp;nbsp;Intelsat 708 Satellite, a Long March rocket, veered off course immediately after launch, crashing into a nearby village only 22 seconds later, destroying 80 houses.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So even if religion flies you into buildings, science flies you into whole villages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We've killed 327 people to get 439 into space. That means that every time a shuttle launches, there's a 74% chance that someone will die for each crew member on board.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some may be thinking, that's only true because you're looking at percentages, not death tolls. 9/11 killed more than 3,000 people, spaceflight has only killed 327.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That may be true, but I still don't think you want to take that route, because as pointed out earlier, science is responsible for a lot more than our few trips to the moon. But even if we were confined to aviation, we could also say that shoddy engineering, maintenance and design (&lt;a href="http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm"&gt;Mechanical Failure&lt;/a&gt;) has killed more in commercial airliners than religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_accidents_and_incidents#Tenerife"&gt;ACRO&lt;/a&gt;, between 1999 and 2010, there were about 2,000 airplane accidents, resulting in around &amp;nbsp;15,000 deaths.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kESA-J7_Tpc/T0_xp-Y2mtI/AAAAAAAABlU/Vq6HlnjjvXs/s1600/xYXG04Tarp1jl28z2aCt1Dnwo1_400.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kESA-J7_Tpc/T0_xp-Y2mtI/AAAAAAAABlU/Vq6HlnjjvXs/s320/xYXG04Tarp1jl28z2aCt1Dnwo1_400.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;But look on the bright side, &lt;br /&gt;
at least they're making money off you.&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-5429791282152310864?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/dkQqaEm0Oa_fB98-8VMj54waJZ4/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/dkQqaEm0Oa_fB98-8VMj54waJZ4/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/dkQqaEm0Oa_fB98-8VMj54waJZ4/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/dkQqaEm0Oa_fB98-8VMj54waJZ4/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/x7U-V82-7Z4" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/5429791282152310864/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/science-flies-you-to-moon-religion.html#comment-form" title="4 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5429791282152310864?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5429791282152310864?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/x7U-V82-7Z4/science-flies-you-to-moon-religion.html" title="Science Flies You To The Moon. Religion Flies You Into Buildings." /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f1Z5kMbK9Fo/T0_gkWcJRnI/AAAAAAAABlM/O_88dm36Z0M/s72-c/276876_217596264961421_1950484516_n.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>4</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/science-flies-you-to-moon-religion.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;Dk4BRn4ycSp7ImA9WhVTFUQ.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-439625865437243120</id><published>2012-03-01T00:19:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2012-03-01T01:42:37.099-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-03-01T01:42:37.099-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Religiosity and High IQ?</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kwLowu6vWy8/T08wuOCxm1I/AAAAAAAABlE/BMdb1UNhUfk/s1600/1277833699-sciencereligion070703ms.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="240" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kwLowu6vWy8/T08wuOCxm1I/AAAAAAAABlE/BMdb1UNhUfk/s320/1277833699-sciencereligion070703ms.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I recently wrote about a study done in 2008 which allegedly connected&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religiosity-and-low-iq.html"&gt; religiosity and low IQ&lt;/a&gt;. In other words, you're more likely to be a believer if your stupid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I mentioned a few problems with the study, including the testers reputation for falsifying and concocting data and the fact that the conclusion is unsupported, even if the data is accurate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then I stumbled upon this 2011 article, by USA Today, about a study showing that you're more than twice as likely to abandon religion if you are uneducated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
"Since the 1970s, religious service attendance has declined among all white Americans, but the rate of decline among those without college degrees has been more than twice that of college graduates, according to the researchers."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://yourlife.usatoday.com/mind-soul/spirituality/story/2011-08-27/Many-less-educated-whites-abandoning-religion-study-finds/50148638/1"&gt;Read the full article here!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-439625865437243120?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w0TN17gpY7n-dTDXYa0d2bljX4g/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w0TN17gpY7n-dTDXYa0d2bljX4g/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w0TN17gpY7n-dTDXYa0d2bljX4g/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w0TN17gpY7n-dTDXYa0d2bljX4g/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/tFESP7Shisw" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/439625865437243120/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/religiosity-and-high-iq.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/439625865437243120?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/439625865437243120?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/tFESP7Shisw/religiosity-and-high-iq.html" title="Religiosity and High IQ?" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kwLowu6vWy8/T08wuOCxm1I/AAAAAAAABlE/BMdb1UNhUfk/s72-c/1277833699-sciencereligion070703ms.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/03/religiosity-and-high-iq.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;DU8AQH86eip7ImA9WhVTFUo.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-8718296581411509868</id><published>2012-02-29T20:41:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-29T20:57:21.112-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-29T20:57:21.112-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Misc." /><title>Just Scratching the Surface.</title><content type="html">This site has been up for about a year and a half and traffic to it continues to grow. I would like to thank everyone who has read, followed, or commented, whether it was to show support or just to pick my brain. This site wouldn't be here without &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;YOU&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the vast majority of you, who haven't been reading along, here's a little of what we've looked at so far:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Philosophy&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dgV4669KZEg/T074_7K2AjI/AAAAAAAABks/eMU3OvosDRo/s1600/Philosophy+and+Religion.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="238" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dgV4669KZEg/T074_7K2AjI/AAAAAAAABks/eMU3OvosDRo/s320/Philosophy+and+Religion.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2010/12/omnipotence-paradox.html"&gt;The Omnipotence Paradox&lt;/a&gt; - Can God create a rock so big that he cannot lift it?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2010/12/omniscience-free-will-paradox.html"&gt;The Omniscience/Free Will Paradox&lt;/a&gt; - If God knows what I will do tomorrow, how can I be free to do otherwise?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/01/problem-of-evil.html"&gt;The Logical Problem of Evil&lt;/a&gt; - If God is so great, why does He let us do terrible things?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/01/evidential-problem-of-evil.html"&gt;The Evidential Problem of Evil&lt;/a&gt; - If God is so great, why would He let such bad things happen?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/03/argument-from-non-belief.html"&gt;The Argument from Non-Belief&lt;/a&gt; - If there is a god, why doesn't He just tell us?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/04/cosmological-argument.html"&gt;The Cosmological Argument&lt;/a&gt; - Is there a "First Mover"?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/04/argument-from-poor-design.html"&gt;The Argument from Poor Design&lt;/a&gt; - If there is&amp;nbsp;intelligent&amp;nbsp;design, why didn't He use a more intelligent design?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/05/argument-from-inconsistent-revelations.html"&gt;The Argument from&amp;nbsp;Inconsistent&amp;nbsp;Revelations&lt;/a&gt; - If there's a God, why would he allow such confusion about Him?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/06/argument-from-locality.html"&gt;The Argument from Locality&lt;/a&gt; - If scripture is divine, why does it reflect the society it came from?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/07/problem-of-hell.html"&gt;The Problem of Hell&lt;/a&gt; - Why would a loving God send his children to burn for eternity?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/09/free-will-in-heaven.html"&gt;Free Will in Heaven&lt;/a&gt; - Can free will exist in Heaven?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/11/dawkins-central-argument.html"&gt;Dawkins Central Argument&lt;/a&gt; - The main argument of&lt;i&gt; The God Delusion.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/atheistic-argument-from-physical-minds.html"&gt;The Atheistic Argument from Physical Minds&lt;/a&gt; - Thought comes from a physical brain, which God allegedly does not have.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/argument-from-design.html"&gt;The Argument from Design&lt;/a&gt; - The universe is too improbable to be by chance.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/courtiers-reply.html"&gt;The Courtier's Reply&lt;/a&gt; - Your opinion does not have to be well-informed to be valid.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/russells-teapot.html"&gt;Russell's Teapot&lt;/a&gt; - The Burden of Proof lies on the theist, not the atheist.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religious-experience-as-evidence.html"&gt;Religious Experience&lt;/a&gt; - Should religious experiences be considered as evidence?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/logical-proof-that-mormonism-is-false.html"&gt;A logical Proof against Mormonism&lt;/a&gt; - Mormon Infinite Regress&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/cs-lewis-on-evil.html"&gt;C.S. Lewis on Evil&lt;/a&gt; - The universe hurts my feelings, therefore there is no God.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Science&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SLnIkTb5aYY/T076W0WbdiI/AAAAAAAABk0/rnTe_fjgdTw/s1600/scienceandreligion.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="198" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SLnIkTb5aYY/T076W0WbdiI/AAAAAAAABk0/rnTe_fjgdTw/s320/scienceandreligion.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2010/12/scientific-creation.html"&gt;Creation Science&lt;/a&gt; - The Genesis Account is confirmed by science.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/02/ten-plagues-of-egypt.html"&gt;The Ten Plagues of Egypt&lt;/a&gt; - Possible chain of events showing plausibility of the Ten Plagues&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/03/noahs-ark.html"&gt;Noah's Ark&lt;/a&gt; - Could the ark possibly fit all animals?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/01/birth-of-jesus.html"&gt;The Birth of Jesus&lt;/a&gt; - Archaeology resolves Book of Mormon "error".&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/03/elephants-in-america.html"&gt;Elephants in America&lt;/a&gt; -&amp;nbsp;Archaeological/Historical evidence makes us wonder about the extinction date of American elephants.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/06/joseph-smiths-gold-plates.html"&gt;Joseph Smith's Gold Plates&lt;/a&gt; - Archaeology confirms that gold plates, bound into books, were used for engraving in ancient times.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/08/bible-cosmology.html"&gt;Bible Cosmology&lt;/a&gt; - How does the Bible describe the universe?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/09/mormons-heavy-metal.html"&gt;Mormon's Heavy Metal&lt;/a&gt; - Were the gold plates too heavy for Joseph Smith to carry.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/11/modest-is-hottest.html"&gt;Modest is Hottest&lt;/a&gt; - Cambridge study on immodest clothing.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/12/2012-and-mayan-calendar.html"&gt;2012 and the Mayan Calendar&lt;/a&gt; - Archaeology or media hype?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/pre-columbian-horses.html"&gt;Wade E. Miller's Pre-Columbian Horses &lt;/a&gt;- Interesting potential findings of horses in America.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religiosity-and-low-iq.html"&gt;Religiosity and Low IQ&lt;/a&gt; - Does faith make you stupider?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;Religion&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LuJwV6W93WM/T078SQ3ecKI/AAAAAAAABk8/PUZhYFoR-XA/s1600/Many-less-educated-whites-abandoning-religion-study-finds-IJAVU8T-x-large.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="235" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LuJwV6W93WM/T078SQ3ecKI/AAAAAAAABk8/PUZhYFoR-XA/s320/Many-less-educated-whites-abandoning-religion-study-finds-IJAVU8T-x-large.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;b&gt;&lt;u&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: large;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2010/11/sacred-not-secret.html"&gt;Sacred, Not Secret&lt;/a&gt; - Why are&amp;nbsp;Mormons&amp;nbsp;so picky about who enters the temple?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/08/bible-bible-we-have-got-bible-and-there.html"&gt;A Bible! A Bible!...&lt;/a&gt; -&amp;nbsp;Biblical&amp;nbsp;Inerrancy and the need for modern revelation.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/10/pastor-robert-jeffress-and-mormon-cult.html"&gt;Pastor Robert Jeffress and the Mormon Cult&lt;/a&gt; - If Mormons are a cult, then who isn't?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/11/chiasmus-in-book-of-mormon.html"&gt;Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon&lt;/a&gt; - Does the use of chiasmus in the Book of Mormon prove that Joseph Smith was a prophet?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/12/mormons-and-wrong-jesus.html"&gt;Mormons and the Wrong Jesus &lt;/a&gt;- Mormons aren't Christian because they teach the "wrong Jesus"?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/12/today-in-city-of-david.html"&gt;Today in the City of David...&lt;/a&gt; - The Bible says that Jesus was born in Jerusalem when he was born in Bethlehem.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/10-things-christians-and-atheists-can.html"&gt;10 Things that Christians and Atheists Can (And Must) Agree On&lt;/a&gt; - Insightful article from Cracked.com.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/religious-violence.html"&gt;Religious Violence&lt;/a&gt; - Religion has caused more bloodshed than any other single cause. Really?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/dna-and-book-of-mormon.html"&gt;DNA and the Book of Mormon&lt;/a&gt; - A Christian double standard.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There's many that were not included here, so look around if you feel so inclined. As always, there's more to come, too, so stop by again!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-8718296581411509868?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/PGqmBJrDnNfVqoPZcJ9wyKB7Z7k/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/PGqmBJrDnNfVqoPZcJ9wyKB7Z7k/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/PGqmBJrDnNfVqoPZcJ9wyKB7Z7k/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/PGqmBJrDnNfVqoPZcJ9wyKB7Z7k/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/0WzPURxgEkI" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/8718296581411509868/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/just-scratching-surface.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8718296581411509868?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8718296581411509868?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/0WzPURxgEkI/just-scratching-surface.html" title="Just Scratching the Surface." /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dgV4669KZEg/T074_7K2AjI/AAAAAAAABks/eMU3OvosDRo/s72-c/Philosophy+and+Religion.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/just-scratching-surface.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;CE4FQH4_eCp7ImA9WhVTE04.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-587244993872422508</id><published>2012-02-26T18:56:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-27T00:55:11.040-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-27T00:55:11.040-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Religiosity and Low IQ</title><content type="html">&lt;table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left; margin-right: 1em; text-align: left;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6xWCdPxGUg/T0rSmIvKDfI/AAAAAAAABic/RA73bB4Oi5U/s1600/article-1029149-015073A40000044D-893_233x423.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6xWCdPxGUg/T0rSmIvKDfI/AAAAAAAABic/RA73bB4Oi5U/s320/article-1029149-015073A40000044D-893_233x423.jpg" width="176" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;Prof. Richard Lynn&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
A few years ago, a British psychologist named Prof. Richard Lynn did a study comparing various countries religiosity and their average IQ.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.mendeley.com/research/average-intelligence-predicts-atheism-rates-across-137-nations/#"&gt;The study&lt;/a&gt;, published in the scientific journal, Intelligence,&amp;nbsp;measured the average IQ of 137 countries and compared it to the statement from a 2007 study on religion covering the same 137 countries, representing about 95% of the world's population. In Angola, for example, 98.5% of the population believes in a God, but the average IQ was just 68.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, the three countries with higher IQs were Japan (105), Taiwan (105) and Germany (99). In those countries, the percentage of people who disbelieve in God were 65%, 24%, 42%.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Prof Lynn found that in only 17% of countries did the proportion of people who believe in God fall below 80%.&amp;nbsp;Prof Lynn said, "These are virtually all the higher IQ countries."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In short, nations with a lower average IQ tended to have the most believers.&amp;nbsp;One exception was America , a high IQ country where only 10 per cent of people don't believe in God.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A thoughtful reader would be hesitant to accept these results for a few reasons. First and foremost is that correlation does not equal causation. If correlation implied causation, it would mean that &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics#False_causality"&gt;ice cream causes children to drown&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, there are many factors that contribute to IQ, and the study does not take these into account.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But &lt;a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/crcs/people/director"&gt;Prof Gordon Lynch&lt;/a&gt; of Birkbeck College, London, said the study had failed to take into account complicated economic, historical and social factors that explained different IQ and 'faith' levels in countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'Linking religious belief and intelligence in this way could reflect a dangerous trend, developing a simplistic characterisation of religion as primitive,' he said.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of these important factors is the socioeconomic status of the individual in question. For example, Richard Lynn collaborated on a book called &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve" style="font-style: italic;"&gt;The Bell Curve&lt;/a&gt;, which argues, in part, that genetic differences between&amp;nbsp;African-American and white subjects caused&amp;nbsp;African-Americans&amp;nbsp;to have lower IQ scores.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But then we have &lt;a href="http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-IQgapgenetic.htm"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
Contrary to "The Bell Curve" findings, a new study by researchers at Columbia and Northwestern Universities suggests that poverty and early learning opportunities -- not race -- account for the gap in IQ scores between blacks and whites. (The study will be published in the April issue of Child Development.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
Adjustments for socioeconomic conditions almost completely eliminate differences in IQ scores between black and white children, according to the study's co-investigators. They include Jeanne Brooks-Gunn and Pamela Klebanov of Columbia's Teachers College, and Greg Duncan of the Center for Urban Affairs and Policy Research at Northwestern University.&lt;br /&gt;
As in many other studies, the black children in the study had IQ scores a full 15 points lower than their white counterparts. Poverty alone, the researchers found, accounted for 52 percent of that difference, cutting it to 7 points. Controlling for the children's home environment reduced the difference by another 28 percent, to a statistically insignificant 3 points -- in essence, eliminating the gap altogether.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, socioeconomic status played a large enough role in the development of the subjects IQ that it virtually eliminated race as a factor at all. The Bell Curve, and Lynn's study of religiosity, both fail to even consider this huge factor.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is important because all of the nations which Lynn lists as having low IQ scores are developing countries, such as&amp;nbsp;Tanzania, Uganda, South Africa, Senegal, Nigeria, Mali, Kenya, Guatamala, Ghana and Angola.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's a graph that compares another study's information on religiosity with the GDP per capita of the listed nations:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/urlaubulusprime/?action=view&amp;amp;current=religionvsiq.gif" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;img alt="Photobucket" border="0" src="http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt13/urlaubulusprime/religionvsiq.gif" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;Socioeconomic status is clearly a strong factor.&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Although I admit that many people who identify as non-believers are very intelligent, such as &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/atheism-is-very-stupid-carl-sagan.html"&gt;Carl Sagan&lt;/a&gt;, there are also many&lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/historys-theists.html"&gt;&amp;nbsp;intelligent people&lt;/a&gt; throughout history who were theists. Given the information above, and the many exceptions we have to Lynn's conclusion, shouldn't we reconsider how great a factor religion is on IQ, if it's a factor at all?&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
In addition, doesn't the fact that some countries, such as Japan and Taiwan, have identical average IQs, but widely varying degrees of religiosity strongly imply that there are other factors at play?&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
In addition to not accounting for other significant factors, there are other reasons to take Lynn's findings with a grain of salt.&amp;nbsp;Lynn's review work on global racial differences in cognitive ability has been cited for misrepresenting the research of other scientists, and has been criticized for unsystematic methodology and distortion. For example,&amp;nbsp;Many of the data points in Lynn's book IQ and the Wealth of Nations were not based on residents of the named countries.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
The datum for Suriname was based on tests given to Surinamese who had emigrated to the Netherlands, and the datum for Ethiopia was based on the IQ scores of a highly selected group that had emigrated to Israel, and, for cultural and historical reasons, was hardly representative of the Ethiopian population. The datum for Mexico was based on a weighted averaging of the results of a study of “Native American and Mestizo children in Southern Mexico” with results of a study of residents of Argentina.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
The datum that Lynn and Vanhanen used for the lowest IQ estimate, Equatorial Guinea, was the mean IQ of a group of Spanish children in a home for the developmentally disabled in Spain. Corrections were applied to adjust for differences in IQ cohorts (the “Flynn” effect) on the assumption that the same correction could be applied internationally, without regard to the cultural or economic development level of the country involved.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
While there appears to be rather little evidence on &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohort_effect"&gt;cohort effect&lt;/a&gt; upon IQ across the developing countries, one study in Kenya (Daley, Whaley, Sigman, Espinosa, &amp;amp; Neumann, 2003) shows a substantially larger cohort effect than is reported for developed countries.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
In a critical review of &lt;i&gt;The Bell Curve&lt;/i&gt;, psychologist Leon Kamin faulted Lynn for disregarding scientific objectivity, misrepresenting data, and for racism. Kamin argues that the studies of cognitive ability of Africans in Lynn's meta-analysis cited by Herrnstein and Murray show strong cultural bias. Kamin also reproached Lynn for concocting IQ values from test scores that have no correlation to IQ. Kamin also notes that Lynn excluded a study that found no difference in White and Black performance, and ignored the results of a study which showed Black scores were higher than White scores.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Initially, this may seem like a petty &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Questions_about_the_notion_of_an_ad_hominem_fallacy"&gt;Ad Hominem&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/i&gt;attack on Lynn, but I think my concern is valid because it relates to the topic in question. If we have a scientist who&amp;nbsp;routinely&amp;nbsp;falsifies and concocts data relating to IQ scores, and his conclusions are demonstrably false, then we should pause when he releases another study on IQ. I admit that it could be the case that this study is&amp;nbsp;legitimate, but if it's scientific, then it's repeatable. Therefore, it's reasonable to withhold our assent until we see it repeated.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
However, even if we did not have valid reason to doubt Lynn's data, we would still have reason to doubt his conclusion.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
For example, if Germany has an average IQ score of 102, then that means approximately 50% of the German population has an IQ above 102, and 50% has an IQ below 102. If 79% of the population identify as non-believers, we do not have reason to say that that is the&lt;i&gt; top&lt;/i&gt; 79%.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
In other words, it may be the case that just non-believers have below average intelligence as there are with above average intelligence. There may be just as many ignorant non-believers as there are geniuses. Isn't that an important piece of information? Wouldn't that show whether or not religion is the determining factor in IQ? It could very well be the case that the top 21% of Germany's intellectuals are all believers. I doubt that that's the case, but my point is that we are not being given an important piece of information, and we cannot draw conclusions without it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
This study was controversial for a time and while it has faded from media attention, people still believe the myth that the religious are inherently less intelligent than the irreligious, just as people used to believe that blacks were inherently less intelligent than whites.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
So far, we have no good reason to think this.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-587244993872422508?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/bQvudvwTV5_4_bg-Kss6qCud60k/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/bQvudvwTV5_4_bg-Kss6qCud60k/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/bQvudvwTV5_4_bg-Kss6qCud60k/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/bQvudvwTV5_4_bg-Kss6qCud60k/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/Bu9J3AtiMKw" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/587244993872422508/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religiosity-and-low-iq.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/587244993872422508?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/587244993872422508?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/Bu9J3AtiMKw/religiosity-and-low-iq.html" title="Religiosity and Low IQ" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u6xWCdPxGUg/T0rSmIvKDfI/AAAAAAAABic/RA73bB4Oi5U/s72-c/article-1029149-015073A40000044D-893_233x423.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religiosity-and-low-iq.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;A08CQH46eyp7ImA9WhVTEE4.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-8241872108489690258</id><published>2012-02-23T03:21:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-23T15:31:01.013-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-23T15:31:01.013-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><title>"Deseret, Which, by Interpretation, Is A Honey Bee"</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8y6F20GHHuc/T0YQthedqNI/AAAAAAAABh0/lQVgzba2Hss/s1600/quarter_beehive.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8y6F20GHHuc/T0YQthedqNI/AAAAAAAABh0/lQVgzba2Hss/s1600/quarter_beehive.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Critics of the Book of Mormon often point out the mention of bees as an anachronism. Here's the verse,&lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/2.3?lang=eng#2"&gt; Ether 2:3&lt;/a&gt;,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is allegedly an anachronism because the honey bee was not known in America until they were brought by the Spanish.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This argument is almost as silly as the &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/adieu-in-book-of-mormon.html"&gt;Adieu Argument&lt;/a&gt;. The biggest problem with the argument that the Book of Mormon claims that honey bees were in America is the fact that the Book of Mormon does not make that claim.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The verse above takes place before they left the Old World and they are never mentioned again. A few chapters later, in&lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/6.4?lang=eng"&gt; Ether 6:4&lt;/a&gt;, we are told what they brought with them overseas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
And it came to pass that when they had prepared all manner of food, that thereby they might subsist upon the water, and also food for their flocks and herds, and whatsoever beast or animal or fowl that they should carry with them—and it came to pass that when they had done all these things they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea, commending themselves unto the Lord their God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Bees are not mentioned here. It could be that they were brought, but were just not mentioned specifically, but there are two very good reasons to think that the Jaredites did not bring them to the New World.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First is that nobody in their right mind would enclose themselves on a barge in the middle of the ocean with a bunch of livestock and swarms of bees.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, and more convincing, is this: The Jaredites journey across the sea took 344 days. This we are told in &lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/6.11?lang=eng"&gt;Ether 6:11&lt;/a&gt;. No hive of bees would last that long without being able to gather pollen to produce honey and feed the hive. They couldn't bring bees to the New World if they tried. This was much easier centuries later for Spanish sailing ships because the trip was only about two to three months.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So the Book of Mormon does not claim that the honey bee was known in America before they were brought by the Spanish. In fact, it implies the opposite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-8241872108489690258?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zc1TBsiA3ArH6ZdIATijZ85zQN8/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zc1TBsiA3ArH6ZdIATijZ85zQN8/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zc1TBsiA3ArH6ZdIATijZ85zQN8/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zc1TBsiA3ArH6ZdIATijZ85zQN8/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/q4nbLcOueNo" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/8241872108489690258/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/deseret-which-by-interpretation-is.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8241872108489690258?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8241872108489690258?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/q4nbLcOueNo/deseret-which-by-interpretation-is.html" title="&quot;Deseret, Which, by Interpretation, Is A Honey Bee&quot;" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8y6F20GHHuc/T0YQthedqNI/AAAAAAAABh0/lQVgzba2Hss/s72-c/quarter_beehive.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/deseret-which-by-interpretation-is.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;DUYARnk_cSp7ImA9WhRaGUk.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-636927429814224331</id><published>2012-02-22T13:44:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-22T13:45:47.749-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-22T13:45:47.749-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Growing Evidence of Book of Mormon Claims</title><content type="html">Here's a couple of charts I found while looking up information for another post. The first is a list of claims made by the Book of Mormon and whether or not they were confirmed by science,&amp;nbsp;archaeology, etc, in 1842. The second is the same list in 2005.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A8bzqnncepk/T0VgQEulStI/AAAAAAAABhk/gGUVhzJSvNE/s1600/795px-BoM_Archaeology_1842.PNG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="480" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A8bzqnncepk/T0VgQEulStI/AAAAAAAABhk/gGUVhzJSvNE/s640/795px-BoM_Archaeology_1842.PNG" width="640" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qQuHJa3LnpY/T0VgTBsxa3I/AAAAAAAABhs/6vUUBvnzWBA/s1600/797px-BoM_Archaeology_2005.PNG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="481" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qQuHJa3LnpY/T0VgTBsxa3I/AAAAAAAABhs/6vUUBvnzWBA/s640/797px-BoM_Archaeology_2005.PNG" width="640" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-636927429814224331?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/pwgSx3wwFUaNmMlSI8pycHuUSdE/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/pwgSx3wwFUaNmMlSI8pycHuUSdE/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/pwgSx3wwFUaNmMlSI8pycHuUSdE/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/pwgSx3wwFUaNmMlSI8pycHuUSdE/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/1Tg0n8imdMU" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/636927429814224331/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/growing-confirmation-of-book-of-mormon.html#comment-form" title="2 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/636927429814224331?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/636927429814224331?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/1Tg0n8imdMU/growing-confirmation-of-book-of-mormon.html" title="Growing Evidence of Book of Mormon Claims" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-A8bzqnncepk/T0VgQEulStI/AAAAAAAABhk/gGUVhzJSvNE/s72-c/795px-BoM_Archaeology_1842.PNG" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>2</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/growing-confirmation-of-book-of-mormon.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;CE4FQn8yeCp7ImA9WhRaGU0.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-166522654009850425</id><published>2012-02-21T23:52:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-22T01:28:33.190-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-22T01:28:33.190-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><title>"Adieu" in the Book of Mormon</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fGZyHa3zM48/T0SU0W1WFII/AAAAAAAABhU/Lw22qwwZjpk/s1600/french-bible.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fGZyHa3zM48/T0SU0W1WFII/AAAAAAAABhU/Lw22qwwZjpk/s320/french-bible.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;Hey! Is that French? Faaaaaaaaaaaake!&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
There are many arguments against the Book of Mormon. Some of them make valid points and are difficult to resolve. This is not one of them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some critics of the Book of Mormon try to claim it as a fraud because one verse (&lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/jacob/7.27?lang=eng#26"&gt;Jacob 7:27&lt;/a&gt;) contains the French word, "Adieu."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is allegedly a problem, an anachronism, because the word "adieu" was unknown to the ancient&amp;nbsp;Hebrew&amp;nbsp;authors of the book. Therefore the book must be false.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First and foremost, I would like to remind such critics that the Book of Mormon contains around 300,000 words in English, none of which were known to ancient Hebrews.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The presence of a word in a&lt;i&gt; translated&lt;/i&gt; text does not mean that that word appeared in the original document. It is a&lt;i&gt; translation&lt;/i&gt;! The translator is free to use any word at their disposal which they feel best conveys the required meaning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example,&amp;nbsp;In 1737, William Whiston (1667-1752) produced a translation of The Life of Flavius Josephus, written by a Jew born in Jerusalem in A.D. 37. &lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=DT5ndgdCb-MC&amp;amp;pg=PA3&amp;amp;dq=Thus+have+I+set+down+the+genealogy+of+my+family+as+I+have+found+it+described+in+the+public+records,+and+so+bid+adieu+to+those+who+calumniate+me&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;ei=bZxET-WnFIzWiALn2tnLDg&amp;amp;ved=0CE0QuwUwAw#v=onepage&amp;amp;q=adieu&amp;amp;f=false"&gt;Whiston's translation reads&lt;/a&gt;, in part:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
Thus have I set down the genealogy of my family as I have found it described in the public records, and so bid &lt;u&gt;adieu&lt;/u&gt; to those who calumniate me...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Critics would apparently have us think that either Josephus never existed and William Whiston was a fraud, or that Josephus spoke French.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, even if it were true that the&amp;nbsp;presence of a french word made it a fraud, the argument still wouldn't make sense, because Adieu is an English word.&amp;nbsp;Adieu entered the English language in the 14th century from Middle French. Adieu has been part of the English language longer than the word "banquet", which is also a word in modern French, but banquet entered the English language only in the 15th century. Adieu is no less English than commence, nation, psychology, Bible, vision, or any other word that can be traced back to Latin, Greek, German, French, Spanish, or any other language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The presence of adieu is no more a challenge to the historicity and authenticity of the Book of Mormon than the 36 uses of "banquet" in the NIV is a challenge to the historicity and authenticity of the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The word “adieu,” along with other words of French origin, is listed as an English term in Noah Webster’s 1828 dictionary, which reflects American English of Joseph Smith’s day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So Joseph Smith does not even use a French word, he only uses a word of french origin, and even if he did use a French word, it would have nothing to do with the historicity or authenticity of the Book of Mormon any more than it would for the Bible or any other translated book ever.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-166522654009850425?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/e7wjdD5WUAKPCL5rvXo3q1x3hZ0/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/e7wjdD5WUAKPCL5rvXo3q1x3hZ0/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/e7wjdD5WUAKPCL5rvXo3q1x3hZ0/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/e7wjdD5WUAKPCL5rvXo3q1x3hZ0/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/WnheThMXOTs" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/166522654009850425/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/adieu-in-book-of-mormon.html#comment-form" title="2 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/166522654009850425?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/166522654009850425?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/WnheThMXOTs/adieu-in-book-of-mormon.html" title="&quot;Adieu&quot; in the Book of Mormon" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fGZyHa3zM48/T0SU0W1WFII/AAAAAAAABhU/Lw22qwwZjpk/s72-c/french-bible.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>2</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/adieu-in-book-of-mormon.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;AkcESX89fSp7ImA9WhRaF0s.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-4783553164202475996</id><published>2012-02-20T12:00:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-20T12:00:08.165-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-20T12:00:08.165-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><title>C.S. Lewis on Evil</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w149cfaS9KQ/T0KmJVT31GI/AAAAAAAABgk/t9hWG6Ug8BU/s1600/CS+Lewis-1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w149cfaS9KQ/T0KmJVT31GI/AAAAAAAABgk/t9hWG6Ug8BU/s320/CS+Lewis-1.jpg" width="269" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Here's a quote from C.S. Lewis about the Problem of Evil and his reasoning as an atheist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.' ~C.S. Lewis”&amp;nbsp;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, if the universe is just, then the Problem of Evil falls apart. If the universe is unjust, how would we have even known?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-4783553164202475996?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/XoS4HOFhBL6hk1bpYsqcUzv1RX0/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/XoS4HOFhBL6hk1bpYsqcUzv1RX0/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/XoS4HOFhBL6hk1bpYsqcUzv1RX0/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/XoS4HOFhBL6hk1bpYsqcUzv1RX0/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/CMUaTV_KI6Q" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/4783553164202475996/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/cs-lewis-on-evil.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/4783553164202475996?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/4783553164202475996?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/CMUaTV_KI6Q/cs-lewis-on-evil.html" title="C.S. Lewis on Evil" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-w149cfaS9KQ/T0KmJVT31GI/AAAAAAAABgk/t9hWG6Ug8BU/s72-c/CS+Lewis-1.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/cs-lewis-on-evil.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;A04DQXczfCp7ImA9WhRaF0g.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-5228856384830132126</id><published>2012-02-19T20:44:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-20T09:46:10.984-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-20T09:46:10.984-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><title>A Logical Proof That Mormonism is False?</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8PFapsAZ1BU/T0HIui3zrEI/AAAAAAAABgU/AZid4jalKUg/s1600/regresss.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8PFapsAZ1BU/T0HIui3zrEI/AAAAAAAABgU/AZid4jalKUg/s320/regresss.jpg" width="316" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
There is an organization called the Christian&amp;nbsp;Apologetics &amp;amp; Research Ministries which posted an article allegedly describing a logical proof that Mormonism is false.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You can read the full article&lt;a href="http://carm.org/logical-proof-that-mormonism-is-false"&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;, but the main point of the argument revolves around the LDS concept of Exaltation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The LDS church teaches that through obedience to Gospel principles, we can, at some point in the eternities, eventually become like God.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lorenzo Snow, a former President of the LDS church, &lt;a href="http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=5&amp;amp;topic=quotes"&gt;also taught that&lt;/a&gt;, “As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From these two ideas, it is inferred that God has a God, who has a God, who has a God, and so forth. This sets up an infinite regress, which is impossible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two main problems with this "logical proof."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First of all, the Mormon church does not teach that God has a God, who has a God, etc. To the best of my knowledge, the church's official position on this topic is, "We don't know and, frankly, we don't care." Therefore, any inference of an infinite regress is just the&amp;nbsp;unofficial conjecture of the members, or words put in our mouths by CARM, but it is not LDS doctrine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Second, even if it's true that God has a God who has a God, and so forth, it does not necessarily lead to an infinite regress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, it is a common idea in Christianity that God exists outside of time. He is not bound to a linear chronology the way we are. In other words, He is capable of time travel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Imagine that in the beginning, there was nothing. Then a God appears, creates a world populated by people, some of which go on to be exalted and receive Godhood. Then, one of those exalted beings travels back and becomes that first God who appeared.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is that what happened? I don't know. Probably not. But the point is that it is entirely in line with LDS doctrine and resolves CARM's "logical proof."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So CARM's argument fails in two ways. First is that it is based on a doctrine which is not even taught by the church. Second, even if the LDS church did teach such a doctrine, it would not necessarily lead to an infinite regress.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bcS6r3ZMAX4/T0HPj-kuxRI/AAAAAAAABgc/TEqVjV2Byjo/s1600/motivator64e6a686e122cb5a55ffdeaf8496ee33c7308adf.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bcS6r3ZMAX4/T0HPj-kuxRI/AAAAAAAABgc/TEqVjV2Byjo/s400/motivator64e6a686e122cb5a55ffdeaf8496ee33c7308adf.jpg" width="400" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-5228856384830132126?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/TiQjs_1tFRle08Q70tz9FGn6Iys/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/TiQjs_1tFRle08Q70tz9FGn6Iys/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/TiQjs_1tFRle08Q70tz9FGn6Iys/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/TiQjs_1tFRle08Q70tz9FGn6Iys/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/hOunXxbdp7E" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/5228856384830132126/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/logical-proof-that-mormonism-is-false.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5228856384830132126?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5228856384830132126?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/hOunXxbdp7E/logical-proof-that-mormonism-is-false.html" title="A Logical Proof That Mormonism is False?" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8PFapsAZ1BU/T0HIui3zrEI/AAAAAAAABgU/AZid4jalKUg/s72-c/regresss.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/logical-proof-that-mormonism-is-false.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;D0YGQHg9cCp7ImA9WhRaF0w.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-126196232344045348</id><published>2012-02-18T10:44:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-19T21:18:41.668-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-19T21:18:41.668-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Religious Experience as Evidence</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FbuK8A9Z9ws/T0Cc7nmHXmI/AAAAAAAABgM/2GYqAOOdMsM/s1600/media_httpfarm5static_neoFf.jpg.scaled500.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="211" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FbuK8A9Z9ws/T0Cc7nmHXmI/AAAAAAAABgM/2GYqAOOdMsM/s320/media_httpfarm5static_neoFf.jpg.scaled500.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
The Argument from Religious Experience basically says that there are decent reasons for considering at least some religious experiences authentic, therefore there must be some God behind them. The argument is problematic, at best, for obvious reasons.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, for all but the most extreme examples, how would you even authenticate something like that? Also, as much as theists hate to admit it, theories that they are hallucinations or neural misfires are valid points.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, in order to think that they are hallucinations, you must have examined the accounts and found some evidence that they are hallucinations, such as a pre-existent psychological condition, a doctrinal inconsistency, or some other reason to discount it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To be fair, theists also need evidence to claim that they are&amp;nbsp;legitimate, but the point is that these accounts must be evaluated before any conclusion can be drawn. As long as there remains accounts of religious experiences which have not been investigated, then we must remain agnostic regarding their truth or falsity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qBV23UH0h4U/Tz_hjfvdwAI/AAAAAAAABe0/5ExyZ403yD4/s1600/telescope-sam-1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="238" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qBV23UH0h4U/Tz_hjfvdwAI/AAAAAAAABe0/5ExyZ403yD4/s320/telescope-sam-1.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, imagine I had a powerful telescope. Through this telescope, you can look out into space and see &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/russells-teapot.html"&gt;Russell's Teapot&lt;/a&gt;. I would now be a believer in Russell's Teapot. To me, a random china teapot orbiting somewhere in between the Earth and the Sun would be a pretty extraordinary thing. I would likely invite someone else to look through the telescope and see what I see.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What if that person were to say to me, "No. I will not look. It is your burden to prove to me that the teapot is there. Until you prove it, I will assume it is a hallucination."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would urge him again, "Look! The evidence is there, but you must look. I can't prove this to you, but you can prove it for yourself if you look."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's true. I might be hallucinating, but the reasonable thing to do is to simply look through the telescope, rather than refuse until I can prove the Teapot's existence with a logical proof.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-126196232344045348?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/Qch9kH8Nume5SbBRwNKH2t4iXdQ/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/Qch9kH8Nume5SbBRwNKH2t4iXdQ/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/Qch9kH8Nume5SbBRwNKH2t4iXdQ/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/Qch9kH8Nume5SbBRwNKH2t4iXdQ/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/xX2JVzbbpdk" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/126196232344045348/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religious-experience-as-evidence.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/126196232344045348?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/126196232344045348?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/xX2JVzbbpdk/religious-experience-as-evidence.html" title="Religious Experience as Evidence" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FbuK8A9Z9ws/T0Cc7nmHXmI/AAAAAAAABgM/2GYqAOOdMsM/s72-c/media_httpfarm5static_neoFf.jpg.scaled500.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/religious-experience-as-evidence.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;DEIHQX05fCp7ImA9WhRaFEo.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-7512814390265338233</id><published>2012-02-16T17:45:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-17T03:02:10.324-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-17T03:02:10.324-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Russell" /><title>Russell's Teapot</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_bG0P9Ncyx0/Tz2hVgfkYqI/AAAAAAAABeU/_ABmdL0f8Ck/s1600/220px-Russell1907-2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_bG0P9Ncyx0/Tz2hVgfkYqI/AAAAAAAABeU/_ABmdL0f8Ck/s1600/220px-Russell1907-2.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
Bertrand Russell lived from 1872 - 1970, and was a&amp;nbsp;British philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian, and social critic. At various points in his life he considered himself a liberal, a socialist, and a pacifist, but he also admitted that he had never been any of these in any profound sense.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of his most famous ideas has come to be known as Russell's Teapot. Russell's Teapot was a thought experiment used to illustrate the idea that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making ontologically positive claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By ontologically positive claims, we mean claims that something does exist, as opposed to claims that something does not exist, which cannot be proven.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In others words, if someone says, "There is a God," then it is up to them to prove it. A person cannot be expected to prove a claim such as, "There is no God."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Russell said,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GIfVlwVI_OE/Tz2osMkxg_I/AAAAAAAABec/LG10Z-Q64hs/s1600/russell's+teapot.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="209" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GIfVlwVI_OE/Tz2osMkxg_I/AAAAAAAABec/LG10Z-Q64hs/s320/russell's+teapot.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;nbsp;The main point of the argument is that no one can prove a negative claim, and therefore Occam's razor suggests that the more simple theory (in which there is no supreme being) should trump the more complex theory (with a supreme being).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Carl Sagan used a version of this argument in his book, &lt;i&gt;A Demon-Haunted World&lt;/i&gt;. His version was about "The Dragon in My Garage," in a chapter of the same name. It was almost an identical argument, but using an invisible dragon in place of a teapot. At the end, Sagan notes that, "Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, this thinking is partially erroneous.&amp;nbsp;Philosopher Paul Chamberlain says it is inaccurate to assert that positive truth claims bear a burden of proof while negative truth claims do not. He notes that all truth claims bear a burden of proof, and that like Mother Goose and the tooth fairy, the teapot bears the greater burden not because of its negativity but because of its triviality, arguing that "When we substitute normal, serious characters such as Plato, Nero, Winston Churchill, or George Washington in place of these fictional characters, it becomes clear that anyone denying the existence of these figures has a burden of proof equal to, or in some cases greater than, the person claiming they do exist."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, examples like celestial teapots and invisible dragons (or Invisible Pink Unicorns or Flying Spaghetti Monsters) only work because they are fairly absurd to begin with. However, if I were to suggest that, "There really was no George Washington. He never existed," then the reasonable thing would be to demand some evidence, not to adopt the assertion simply because it cannot be disproved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even ontologically negative claims demand evidence. In some cases, the burden is even heavier on negative claims.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Earlier, I said that the reasoning behind Russell's Teapot is only "partially erroneous." That is because, typically, the burden is, in fact, heavier on the positive claim. Theists do have the burden to show some evidence for God's existence, and if there is no evidence, then they are simply making an unfounded assumption.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, even though atheists have less of a burden, the burden is still theirs, as well, and if they can show no evidence against the existence of God, then they are simply making an unfounded assumption.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The assumption behind atheism may be a safer bet, but it is still not as logical or rational as simply not making an assumption at all. If an individual were being truly rational and logical, they would be agnostic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A truly rational individual would not make the claim that, "There is a God," or that, "There is no God." They would not make any claim at all. They would simply say, "I don't know."&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-7512814390265338233?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/9vwhwQZm6ZjtQ7ZNNxXp7uYuNjU/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/9vwhwQZm6ZjtQ7ZNNxXp7uYuNjU/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/9vwhwQZm6ZjtQ7ZNNxXp7uYuNjU/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/9vwhwQZm6ZjtQ7ZNNxXp7uYuNjU/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/RSYT8AUDBHg" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/7512814390265338233/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/russells-teapot.html#comment-form" title="2 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7512814390265338233?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7512814390265338233?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/RSYT8AUDBHg/russells-teapot.html" title="Russell's Teapot" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_bG0P9Ncyx0/Tz2hVgfkYqI/AAAAAAAABeU/_ABmdL0f8Ck/s72-c/220px-Russell1907-2.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>2</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/russells-teapot.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;AkMGSXc_fyp7ImA9WhRaEkg.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-3089876667949709881</id><published>2012-02-14T01:15:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-14T14:27:08.947-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-14T14:27:08.947-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Misc." /><title>My Thoughts on Prop. 8 and Gay Marriage</title><content type="html">Prop. 8 was a big deal a few years ago in California, and voters eventually approved it, but it's been in appeals ever since. A few days ago, &lt;a href="http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/court-overturns-prop-8-california-says-state-t-181451250.html"&gt;California's Supreme Court overturned it&lt;/a&gt;, and it's been in the news again. I've always had a rather unorthodox opinion regarding Prop. 8, and have already lost close friends over this controversial issue, so I've been hesitant to share my thoughts until now. I think the most tragic thing about this issue isn't who it fails to bring together, but who it succeeds in tearing apart.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First and foremost, let me say that everything I am about to say is strictly my own opinion and is not official or authoritative in any way. While I do feel that my opinion is in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and its leadership, my opinion does not represent those teachings, nor is it even strongly influenced by them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let me also say that I agree that there is actually some inequality between Straights and the LGBT community when it comes to marriage. "Civil Union" is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; the same thing as marriage. There are rights and&amp;nbsp;privileges given to one that are denied to the other. Most of these are taxes, health insurance, and social security survivor benefits, but there are some others.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm going to briefly describe my understanding of each side's major argument, or at least the most common argument, and why I don't buy it. Then I'll share my own opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OTCMMN26Lz8/TzoGXs6hhWI/AAAAAAAABdo/O7eTqSHA9-Q/s1600/8_09_2010_Yes_on_8_EWTN.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="150" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OTCMMN26Lz8/TzoGXs6hhWI/AAAAAAAABdo/O7eTqSHA9-Q/s200/8_09_2010_Yes_on_8_EWTN.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Supporters, your main argument seems to be that gay marriage would "violate the sanctity of marriage." To all of you, I offer the following picture, stolen off of a social networking site...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fywz6DZYcII/TzoFacjSfgI/AAAAAAAABdg/ydMqXqVuTl8/s1600/422063_221182341310904_100002574191229_438642_1619940899_n.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="316" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fywz6DZYcII/TzoFacjSfgI/AAAAAAAABdg/ydMqXqVuTl8/s400/422063_221182341310904_100002574191229_438642_1619940899_n.jpg" width="400" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;It's a valid point.&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
If we truly viewed marriage as something sacred, then we would live in a very different society. There would be no &lt;i&gt;The&amp;nbsp;Bachelor&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;on ABC. There would be no &lt;i&gt;Bridezillas&lt;/i&gt; on WE tv. There would be no drive-thru chapels presided over by Elvis and Shaft look-alikes. And the biggest difference of all is that marriage would not be a lucrative commercial venture.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
I love my wife and will always cherish my marriage to her, but the actual experience of &lt;i&gt;getting married&lt;/i&gt;&amp;nbsp;left me very disillusioned and cynical. I really wish we had just eloped and kept all our money.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
A nice cake may cost about $100. An identical cake for a wedding may cost about $800 more, for no other reason than because it's for a wedding and the cake decorator knows you'll pay it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
Same with dresses. A nice white dress may be a few hundred dollars. An identical dress for a wedding will cost you a few thousand. For no other reason than because they know you will pay. Speaking of clothing, the only reason we still have brides maids and groomsmen is because tailors want to sell you ten more dresses and ten more suits, and they know you'll pay it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
And don't get me started on photography. It's not like a camera gets better resolution if a priest is nearby. A picture is a picture, but the photographer knows you'll pay an extra thousand for wedding pictures, so the price goes up.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
Rings are another perfect example. The diamond industry is basically a huge scam. Diamonds are actually extremely common in the Earth's crust. There are enough diamonds to give each man, woman and child in the United States a whole cupful. That's the reason we keep buying and buying but they never run out. The reason diamonds cost so much isn't because they are rare and supply is low, but because they know you'll pay it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
Invitations almost cost as much as you're suit, because heaven forbid you don't send an invitation to your Uncle Bernie, even though he lives on the other side of the country and clearly isn't going to show up. Marriage is so bogged down by silly traditions, corporate brainwashing, and general pride and foolishness that we've lost sight of what was supposed to be sacred about it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
Everyone wants to get married the "right" way, and by that, they mean the "expensive" way. &lt;a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119760031991928727.html?mod=hps_us_inside_today%29had"&gt;Marriage is about money&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
We like to pretend that marriage is something sacred to us, but as Christians, we've sold out. It's just about money and profit now. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't sell what I hold sacred.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--Mgn1b6few4/TzoJbhHriLI/AAAAAAAABdw/IYufGJn58CU/s1600/No-on-8-old.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="236" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--Mgn1b6few4/TzoJbhHriLI/AAAAAAAABdw/IYufGJn58CU/s320/No-on-8-old.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Protesters, marriage is a rite, not a right. It is a religious ceremony and no one has a right to a religious ceremony. For example, I can't get mad at Jews because they won't let me have a Bar Mitzvah or be ordained as a Rabbi. I can't be angry with Muslims because I can't participate in the Hajj to Mecca.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
I can't hold this against them any more than I get to protest against the Freemasons for not letting me walk in off the street and declare myself a Master Mason, or walk into Microsoft and take over as CEO.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Nevertheless, I do agree that there is&amp;nbsp;legitimate&amp;nbsp;inequality and something must be done about it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
However, my unqualified opinion is that inequality is not the real problem. It is only a symptom of the real problem.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
The real problem is that the U.S. government is violating its own principle of Separation Between Church and State. The idea of a separation between church and state goes back to the writings of Thomas Jefferson and has long been an established part of Supreme Court decisions, going back to&amp;nbsp;&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._United_States"&gt;Reynolds v. United States&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt; from 1879, when the Court reviewed the history of the early Republic in deciding the extent of the liberties of Mormons, ironically, regarding their right to marry.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
But now the Federal Government offers tax breaks and other benefits to those who have participated in a particular religious ceremony, and so it supports the members of those religions in a way that it denies to non-religious individuals, or to members of religions that it does not choose to recognize.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
I did vote "yes" on Prop. 8, and I would do it again, not because of my religious background, or my feelings about gay marriage. I view the entire issue as a sign that our government has made a mistake. To grant the right to marry to homosexuals would only expand and perpetuate this mistake.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Rather than granting marriage rights to homosexuals, I think they should be &lt;i&gt;taken away&lt;/i&gt; from heterosexuals.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
If the protesters' motivation truly is equality, then they should be satisfied with this because no one will have any rights or&amp;nbsp;privileges over anyone else, regardless of marital status.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
In addition, if supporters are truly motivated by the sanctity of marriage, then they should be satisfied by this because it removes one of the larger non-spiritual reasons why people get married; Money. Marriage will be a pretty good step toward being as sacred as we like to think it is. However, in order to fully remove the hypocrisy, we would have to learn to marry for love. That seems a long way off, but we can start working toward it.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Making a change like this would leave some things up in the air, though. For example, a man or woman has the right to make certain medical decisions on behalf of a spouse. If marriage is taken out of the equation, who will make decisions like these? Well, it would not be difficult to introduce some legislation that every adult may choose to take another consenting adult to be legally bound as a person to make decisions like this in an emergency, provide some financial support, etc.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
That's probably a poor example, but the point is that compromises could be made.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
Unfortunately, I don't think many people will be satisfied by this. Supporters of Prop. 8 will not like being told that their marriage is not legally valid. Ironic, right? And to be honest, I just haven't seen much willingness to compromise out of protesters.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
That's my opinion. I do support Proposition 8. I do not hate homosexuals, but I believe in the separation of church and state and I do not like the commercialism and irreligious motivations behind many marriages.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
I believe that the Founding Fathers were nothing short of inspired when they wrote the Constitution. I believe the government should not meddle with the things of God, even if it seems to benefit me. I believe that marriage truly is sacred and its time we start acting like it. I believe there is actually inequality regarding this issue and that must be addressed.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"&gt;
I believe this is a fair compromise.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-3089876667949709881?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w_nWrmSXoY_yO84rNuYbwFtl_2w/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w_nWrmSXoY_yO84rNuYbwFtl_2w/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w_nWrmSXoY_yO84rNuYbwFtl_2w/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/w_nWrmSXoY_yO84rNuYbwFtl_2w/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/HWR4UJVhy2Q" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/3089876667949709881/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/my-thoughts-on-prop-8-and-gay-marriage.html#comment-form" title="2 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/3089876667949709881?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/3089876667949709881?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/HWR4UJVhy2Q/my-thoughts-on-prop-8-and-gay-marriage.html" title="My Thoughts on Prop. 8 and Gay Marriage" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OTCMMN26Lz8/TzoGXs6hhWI/AAAAAAAABdo/O7eTqSHA9-Q/s72-c/8_09_2010_Yes_on_8_EWTN.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>2</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/my-thoughts-on-prop-8-and-gay-marriage.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;DUENQXo8eSp7ImA9WhRaEU8.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-5081741009258459292</id><published>2012-02-13T02:08:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-13T02:08:10.471-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-13T02:08:10.471-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Guest Posts and Reviews" /><title>Guest Post on A Major Shift</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aiRdL72wpgM/Tzjg15bgC6I/AAAAAAAABdY/ZGSyVKprXQg/s1600/scripture_study1_400.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aiRdL72wpgM/Tzjg15bgC6I/AAAAAAAABdY/ZGSyVKprXQg/s320/scripture_study1_400.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
I've got a guest post up &lt;a href="http://amajorshift.blogspot.com/2012/02/guest-post-heaven-is-just-service.html"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;&amp;nbsp;at A Major Shift, by JenHeadJen. The post is about the importance of service to our fellow men and a theory as to why service feels so rewarding. Most importantly, it's pretty short! So if you have a minute, give it &amp;nbsp;read.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you have more than a minute, then read some of the other posts she's got up. The blog contains many insights that come from scripture study and other spiritual&amp;nbsp;pondering. If you're LDS, give it a look for a quick spiritual boost. If you're not LDS, give it a look to get a glimpse into the LDS perspective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Enjoy!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-5081741009258459292?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/OIMJ9TBGakTxzEe5WbL439l6EQc/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/OIMJ9TBGakTxzEe5WbL439l6EQc/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/OIMJ9TBGakTxzEe5WbL439l6EQc/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/OIMJ9TBGakTxzEe5WbL439l6EQc/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/GYH8RCeNStU" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/5081741009258459292/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/guest-post-on-major-shift.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5081741009258459292?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/5081741009258459292?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/GYH8RCeNStU/guest-post-on-major-shift.html" title="Guest Post on A Major Shift" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aiRdL72wpgM/Tzjg15bgC6I/AAAAAAAABdY/ZGSyVKprXQg/s72-c/scripture_study1_400.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/guest-post-on-major-shift.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;DUAHQHs8eCp7ImA9WhRaEU8.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-4036969285684296224</id><published>2012-02-12T16:54:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-13T02:08:51.570-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-13T02:08:51.570-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Guest Posts and Reviews" /><title>Philosophies of Men Review!</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-464UTMqiGPU/TzhdRXD1GtI/AAAAAAAABdQ/xmduqJvERlQ/s1600/apartment_review.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="212" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-464UTMqiGPU/TzhdRXD1GtI/AAAAAAAABdQ/xmduqJvERlQ/s320/apartment_review.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
JenHeadJen, at &lt;a href="http://jenheadjen.blogspot.com/2012/02/philosophies-of-men-review.html"&gt;JenHeadJen&lt;/a&gt;, was kind enough to post a review of &lt;i&gt;Philosophies of Men&lt;/i&gt;. I appreciate her kindness and willingness to take the time to look over my modest efforts here.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Her blog is dedicated to reviews of all kinds. The link above will take you to her kind review of my site, but I would strongly encourage everyone to skim around and see what else she's got.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She always has helpful insights on places to go, books to read, foods to eat, and much, much more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope you enjoy!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-4036969285684296224?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zOKwsfpBZQdiC8uRCAxhHr-R0G4/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zOKwsfpBZQdiC8uRCAxhHr-R0G4/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zOKwsfpBZQdiC8uRCAxhHr-R0G4/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/zOKwsfpBZQdiC8uRCAxhHr-R0G4/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/r0nQjywCsBk" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/4036969285684296224/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/philosophies-of-men-review.html#comment-form" title="1 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/4036969285684296224?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/4036969285684296224?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/r0nQjywCsBk/philosophies-of-men-review.html" title="Philosophies of Men Review!" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-464UTMqiGPU/TzhdRXD1GtI/AAAAAAAABdQ/xmduqJvERlQ/s72-c/apartment_review.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>1</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/philosophies-of-men-review.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;C04MQnozeSp7ImA9WhRaEEk.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-8049164684456653808</id><published>2012-02-08T16:50:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-12T02:19:43.481-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-12T02:19:43.481-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="PZ Meyers" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="Dawkins" /><title>The Courtier's Reply</title><content type="html">&lt;table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8rlHljo-3ig/TzMK1szk7VI/AAAAAAAABbg/fnzVF3Z0zaY/s1600/meyers.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8rlHljo-3ig/TzMK1szk7VI/AAAAAAAABbg/fnzVF3Z0zaY/s1600/meyers.jpg" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;PZ Meyers&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
The Courtier's Reply is a sort of antithesis to the Argument from Authority. The main point of the Courtier's Reply is that a person does not have to be an authority on a topic to make a valid point.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This concept is very old, allegedly going back to Sir Isaac Newton, who supposedly said to a skeptical Edmund Halley regarding astrology - "I, sir, have studied it; you have not." It was popularized under its current name by biologist/blogger &lt;a href="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/"&gt;PZ Meyers&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Meyers says:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
I have considered the impudent accusations of Mr Dawkins with exasperation at his lack of serious scholarship. He has apparently not read the detailed discourses of Count Roderigo of Seville on the exquisite and exotic leathers of the Emperor's boots, nor does he give a moment's consideration to Bellini's masterwork, On the Luminescence of the Emperor's Feathered Hat. We have entire schools dedicated to writing learned treatises on the beauty of the Emperor's raiment, and every major newspaper runs a section dedicated to imperial fashion; Dawkins cavalierly dismisses them all. He even laughs at the highly popular and most persuasive arguments of his fellow countryman, Lord D. T. Mawkscribbler, who famously pointed out that the Emperor would not wear common cotton, nor uncomfortable polyester, but must, I say must, wear undergarments of the finest silk. Dawkins arrogantly ignores all these deep philosophical ponderings to crudely accuse the Emperor of nudity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, Richard Dawkins is like the boy at the end of the story who points out that the emperor is naked, but the courtier replies that hes not naked. The boy is simply uneducated in "Imaginary Fabrics."&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This post by Meyers was later reposted on&lt;a href="http://richarddawkins.net/articles/463-the-courtier-39-s-reply"&gt; Richarddawkins.net&lt;/a&gt; where Dawkins was the first to comment:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
&amp;nbsp;Congratulations to P Z Myers on this brilliant piece of satire. It applies not just to Allen Orr's review in NYRB, but to all those many reviews of TGD that complain of my lack of reading in theology. My own stock reply ("How many learned books of fairyology and hobgoblinology have you read?") is far less witty.&lt;br /&gt;
Richard&lt;/blockquote&gt;
On another occasion, Dawkins commented on his lack of scholarship, saying,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
&amp;nbsp;"Most of us happily disavow fairies, astrology, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster without first immersing ourselves in books of Pastafarian theology."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ironically, I'm actually grateful for Meyer's argument. It allows sites like this to exist. However, even though I &amp;nbsp;agree with the principle, I also think that whenever one presents an argument on any topic, that argument has to be based on an accurate understanding of that subject.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, I could not say that Richard Dawkins is not a human because he has a tail and no human has a tail...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-riOPMQ1enPI/TzMMnk76lpI/AAAAAAAABbo/mClgVXG2cmc/s1600/coccyx-324x205.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="202" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-riOPMQ1enPI/TzMMnk76lpI/AAAAAAAABbo/mClgVXG2cmc/s320/coccyx-324x205.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;By the way, I'm counting this as a tail...&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...because that argument is not based on an accurate understanding of the human anatomy, what a tail is as opposed to a coccyx, or even what a human is. A doctor or biologist who hears this argument may be inclined to ask, in exasperation, whether I've ever read Grey's Anatomy, Aristotle's Biology, or even a more rudimentary book on human anatomy. For crying out loud, even &lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=C80ci8n_kdEC&amp;amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;amp;dq=eyewitness+books+human&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;ei=LQ4zT8gLk_yJAtKmldUK&amp;amp;ved=0CDwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;amp;q=eyewitness%20books%20human&amp;amp;f=false"&gt;Eyewitness Books&lt;/a&gt; will do. Would I be able to cite the Courtier's Reply and go on asserting that Richard Dawkins is not a human? No. It's an ignorant argument.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
An example of this sort of thing in Dawkins works occurs in the &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/11/dawkins-central-argument.html"&gt;central argument of &lt;i&gt;The God Delusion&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, in which he implies that Christianity should not be accepted because Evolution is a much more "ingenious" explanation of life. However, evolution does not conflict with Christianity or anything in the Bible. It may be the opinion of many Christians that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, etc, but this is not a part of the dogma.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
As &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/charles-darwin-not-atheist.html"&gt;Charles Darwin&lt;/a&gt; said,&amp;nbsp;a man "can be an ardent Theist and an evolutionist."&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
Dawkins argument seems to based on the understanding that Young-Earth Creationism is an inherent part of Christianity, but it is not. This, among other things, causes the argument to fall apart.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, just as I am not free to interpret a coccyx as a tail, Dawkins is not free to interpret Christianity in any way he likes, either. His understanding of a topic must be in accord with the current, accepted, mainstream interpretation. The understanding of those he hopes to convince that his argument is valid. This does not require that he read a bunch of esoteric texts on deep, mystical spiritualism, but he must work with the mainstream interpretation, not his own, or else he is just calling a coccyx a tail, and he is simply wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, Dawkins would ask us, "How many learned books of fairyology and hobgoblinology have you read?" I would say that I have never read any. Nevertheless, I do have a correct understanding of what is meant by "Fairy" and a correct understanding of why it is impossible. In addition, my understanding of a "Fairy" is in accordance with that of those I would like to convince, presumably the general public. I would not write a book saying "Fairies are hover-cars and hover-cars do not exist for these reasons, therefore fairies do not exist," because even if fairies are fictional, that's not how they are portrayed, so it's a faulty argument.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another example of why this is important is in the writings of Plato, in which Socrates goes around questioning individuals who paint themselves as experts in various fields and showing them to be false. He does this by asking questions, then using the answers given to him by the experts as the basis for further interrogation until an&amp;nbsp;inconsistency&amp;nbsp;is revealed. He worked with the understanding of the individual he hoped to convince.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dawkins, however, asks questions, but does not allow us to answer. He provides his own answers, then points out the&amp;nbsp;inconsistencies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, while it is true that he does not have to personally go out and read some ancient texts on various religions throughout history, it is still required that his arguments be based on an accurate understanding of what is meant by "God," or whatever the topic may be, and that understanding must be the one held by whoever it is he hopes to convince that his argument is valid.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not the case when dealing with empirical evidence, such as the effect of religion on society, etc. These observations fall within the domain of science and necessarily require interpretation as part of the scientific method, but take the following quote,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
He is not working with anything empirical here. No data, just his interpretation, but this interpretation holds no weight with well-read believers, because they simply assert that his interpretation is false because there were reasons for Old Testament events which Dawkins is not taking into account. They would not be able to do that if Dawkins had attempted to show the&amp;nbsp;inconsistencies&amp;nbsp;of a God who was infinitely loving, rather than a bully.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-8049164684456653808?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/aE5n1iDCmiTVnWcrDILjoAtwl2A/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/aE5n1iDCmiTVnWcrDILjoAtwl2A/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/aE5n1iDCmiTVnWcrDILjoAtwl2A/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/aE5n1iDCmiTVnWcrDILjoAtwl2A/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/ohCQyqzESz4" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/8049164684456653808/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/courtiers-reply.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8049164684456653808?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/8049164684456653808?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/ohCQyqzESz4/courtiers-reply.html" title="The Courtier's Reply" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8rlHljo-3ig/TzMK1szk7VI/AAAAAAAABbg/fnzVF3Z0zaY/s72-c/meyers.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/02/courtiers-reply.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;A0UEQX46cSp7ImA9WhRbEU4.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-7618228340495785712</id><published>2012-01-31T09:55:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-02-01T15:33:20.019-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-02-01T15:33:20.019-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="philosophy" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Argument from Design</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ysSEWCZZ1qE/Tygqxg6uNKI/AAAAAAAABZ4/WW8YU8-3Q3g/s1600/clockwork-bugs-01.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="200" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ysSEWCZZ1qE/Tygqxg6uNKI/AAAAAAAABZ4/WW8YU8-3Q3g/s200/clockwork-bugs-01.jpg" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
The Argument from Design, or the Teleological Argument, is the Argument that the nature of the universe itself is evidence of God, either because life is too improbable or because inanimate objects seem to act with purpose, or for whatever other reason.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Honestly, this is not a very good argument for the&amp;nbsp;existence&amp;nbsp;of God. It's an inductive argument, which means that, at best, it is only probably true. However, we cannot even easily determine how strong or weak that probability is because the evidence is very much a matter of interpretation. It is based on how things &lt;i&gt;seem&lt;/i&gt; to be.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, this argument has gotten some attention over the past decade or so due to the "conversion" of the now deceased &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Flew"&gt;Anthony Flew&lt;/a&gt; from atheism to theism (specifically, deism.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In his 2007 book, &lt;i&gt;There is a God&lt;/i&gt;, Flew describes what is possibly the one redeeming aspect of this argument.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;object width="320" height="266" class="BLOG_video_class" id="BLOG_video-b936ac92602db02b" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/get_player"&gt;
&lt;param name="bgcolor" value="#FFFFFF"&gt;
&lt;param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"&gt;
&lt;param name="flashvars" value="flvurl=http://v20.nonxt1.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?id%3Db936ac92602db02b%26itag%3D5%26app%3Dblogger%26ip%3D0.0.0.0%26ipbits%3D0%26expire%3D1333514191%26sparams%3Did,itag,ip,ipbits,expire%26signature%3D442A7945007B17D24EBF31270A901E5C2E560729.61CDF98E293DD8B2BB9BD9DA3D25D1EFEEC4457F%26key%3Dck1&amp;amp;iurl=http://video.google.com/ThumbnailServer2?app%3Dblogger%26contentid%3Db936ac92602db02b%26offsetms%3D5000%26itag%3Dw160%26sigh%3DbTAR2PHNqcrZjvMgYjrJX9uGn84&amp;amp;autoplay=0&amp;amp;ps=blogger"&gt;
&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/get_player" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
width="320" height="266" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
flashvars="flvurl=http://v20.nonxt1.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?id%3Db936ac92602db02b%26itag%3D5%26app%3Dblogger%26ip%3D0.0.0.0%26ipbits%3D0%26expire%3D1333514191%26sparams%3Did,itag,ip,ipbits,expire%26signature%3D442A7945007B17D24EBF31270A901E5C2E560729.61CDF98E293DD8B2BB9BD9DA3D25D1EFEEC4457F%26key%3Dck1&amp;iurl=http://video.google.com/ThumbnailServer2?app%3Dblogger%26contentid%3Db936ac92602db02b%26offsetms%3D5000%26itag%3Dw160%26sigh%3DbTAR2PHNqcrZjvMgYjrJX9uGn84&amp;autoplay=0&amp;ps=blogger"
allowFullScreen="true" /&gt;&lt;/object&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, even if every particle in the universe had been mingling together for 10 billion years, it would not have been enough time for something like DNA to come about. I suppose it could happen by chance, but not with so little material over so little time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many aspects of the Argument from Design are much too subjective to make a good argument, but unlike the Big Bang, the laws of physics, and the exact nature of Earth life, the origin of that life is more demonstrably improbable, if not impossible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition to pure statistics, there are other issues which add to the improbability of life, such as the solubility of amino acids in water and the complexity of even a single-celled organisms DNA, which make it all the more difficult to explain, because even if organic compounds could come together, they would immediately dissolve. Even &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/11/ben-stein-interviews-richard-dawkins.html"&gt;Richard Dawkins&lt;/a&gt; admits that we have no good explanation for the origin of life on Earth.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-7618228340495785712?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/azOqSaSHXvE-kpyZI9CuuttM-d4/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/azOqSaSHXvE-kpyZI9CuuttM-d4/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/azOqSaSHXvE-kpyZI9CuuttM-d4/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/azOqSaSHXvE-kpyZI9CuuttM-d4/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/_acCyaVtS40" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/7618228340495785712/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/argument-from-design.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7618228340495785712?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/7618228340495785712?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/_acCyaVtS40/argument-from-design.html" title="Argument from Design" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ysSEWCZZ1qE/Tygqxg6uNKI/AAAAAAAABZ4/WW8YU8-3Q3g/s72-c/clockwork-bugs-01.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/argument-from-design.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;CE8CSH0ycSp7ImA9WhRbEE4.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-1466351766540023861</id><published>2012-01-30T02:36:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-31T10:01:09.399-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-01-31T10:01:09.399-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="History" /><title>Sir Francis Drake's Elusive Horse Sighting</title><content type="html">&lt;table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; text-align: right;"&gt;&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6szmG6goIHk/TyZrNo9rQAI/AAAAAAAABZw/wSI9XqfeE_8/s1600/1421621632_678a28f552.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6szmG6goIHk/TyZrNo9rQAI/AAAAAAAABZw/wSI9XqfeE_8/s320/1421621632_678a28f552.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"&gt;Sir Francis Drake and his&amp;nbsp;wondrous&amp;nbsp;pantaloons.&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
While looking into the history of horses in America, I frequently come across the claim that Sir Francis Drake was able to see large herds of wild horses as he sailed up the coast of California and Oregon in 1579, long before the Spanish reached the territory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Drake allegedly saw large "bands of wild horses," and wondered how it could be, since the Spaniards found no horses in Mexico or South America.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can find the quote&amp;nbsp;credited&amp;nbsp;to two sources.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first, and most common, seems to be &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=lmrUAAAAMAAJ&amp;amp;pg=PA91&amp;amp;lpg=PA91&amp;amp;dq=robert+dudley+bands+of+wild+horses&amp;amp;source=bl&amp;amp;ots=jIym16uTK0&amp;amp;sig=BBJnSTY1uWdozTn69N4bFwpnA1s&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;ei=GuQlT9exOunZiQLAst3BBw&amp;amp;ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&amp;amp;q=robert%20dudley%20bands%20of%20wild%20horses&amp;amp;f=false"&gt;Arcano Del Mare&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;, by Robert Dudley, Earl of Northumberland, in 1630.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have also found it credited to Richard Hakluyt's description of Drake's landing in California.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem is that I cannot find a copy of either of these accounts, either a hard copy, or digital. The Library of Congress has a copy of the &lt;a href="http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&amp;amp;Search_Arg=arcano+del+mare&amp;amp;Search_Code=GKEY%5E*&amp;amp;CNT=100&amp;amp;hist=1&amp;amp;type=quick"&gt;Arcano Del Mare&lt;/a&gt;, but not online.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was tempted to dismiss this as a non-existent&amp;nbsp;quote, created by some misguided LDS member trying to defend the Church, but I got more curious when I saw this account referenced by a non-LDS source. &lt;a href="http://www.archive.org/stream/questiondidsirfr00breriala/questiondidsirfr00breriala_djvu.txt"&gt;Archive.org&lt;/a&gt; has a document from UCLA which references the event.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If anyone reading this can provide me with a reliable source for this account, I will give them a batch of home-made cookies (from the supermarket of their choice,) and the biggest hug they've ever seen.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-1466351766540023861?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ca-YvZSapJvZFLcodWlCIAj5IoQ/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ca-YvZSapJvZFLcodWlCIAj5IoQ/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ca-YvZSapJvZFLcodWlCIAj5IoQ/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/ca-YvZSapJvZFLcodWlCIAj5IoQ/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/oiT3ixX9k6w" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/1466351766540023861/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/sir-francis-drakes-elusive-horse.html#comment-form" title="0 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/1466351766540023861?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/1466351766540023861?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/oiT3ixX9k6w/sir-francis-drakes-elusive-horse.html" title="Sir Francis Drake's Elusive Horse Sighting" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6szmG6goIHk/TyZrNo9rQAI/AAAAAAAABZw/wSI9XqfeE_8/s72-c/1421621632_678a28f552.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>0</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/sir-francis-drakes-elusive-horse.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;D0ENQ3kzfCp7ImA9WhRUF04.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-356627581490921692</id><published>2012-01-27T23:24:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-27T23:28:12.784-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-01-27T23:28:12.784-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>DNA and the Book of Mormon</title><content type="html">&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_Ol4Kd_uNfI/TyOYtCle-WI/AAAAAAAABZY/i77wYm-oVLE/s1600/dna_rgb.gif" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="160" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_Ol4Kd_uNfI/TyOYtCle-WI/AAAAAAAABZY/i77wYm-oVLE/s200/dna_rgb.gif" width="200" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
For the sake of diplomacy, I try not to disparage the beliefs of other denominations, but it's always a little confusing to me when fundamental Christians attack the Book of Mormon on the grounds that, so far, no DNA evidence has been traced back to Lehi's party.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reason it confuses me is that these are the same people who deny genetic evidence of evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As long as the discussion is on the LDS church, genetics is rock hard science which cannot be denied or ignored, but when the topic turns to evolution, genetics suddenly becomes this mystical, devilish&amp;nbsp;pseudo-science which is not to be trusted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MMnHAp0rHwU/TyOfvp3_UuI/AAAAAAAABZo/IYG9YYGOftA/s1600/evolution5.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="238" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MMnHAp0rHwU/TyOfvp3_UuI/AAAAAAAABZo/IYG9YYGOftA/s320/evolution5.jpg" width="320" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
I don't mean to make any generalizations about any particular denomination, but there are simply some individuals who need to make up their minds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Is genetic science reliable, in which case, evidence against the Book of Mormon is&amp;nbsp;inconclusive, but evolution is true and their belief is deeply mistaken?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or is genetic science unreliable, in which case evidence against the Book of Mormon is inconclusive and their argument falls apart anyway?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-356627581490921692?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/5k8C928CFP9xPXYjSziMZPCPWqk/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/5k8C928CFP9xPXYjSziMZPCPWqk/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/5k8C928CFP9xPXYjSziMZPCPWqk/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/5k8C928CFP9xPXYjSziMZPCPWqk/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/uTRvprNcg34" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/356627581490921692/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/dna-and-book-of-mormon.html#comment-form" title="2 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/356627581490921692?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/356627581490921692?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/uTRvprNcg34/dna-and-book-of-mormon.html" title="DNA and the Book of Mormon" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_Ol4Kd_uNfI/TyOYtCle-WI/AAAAAAAABZY/i77wYm-oVLE/s72-c/dna_rgb.gif" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>2</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/dna-and-book-of-mormon.html</feedburner:origLink></entry><entry gd:etag="W/&quot;AkAESX0zfCp7ImA9WhRUFEs.&quot;"><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1482258322937378632.post-6806238640384706816</id><published>2012-01-23T02:04:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2012-01-24T21:18:28.384-08:00</updated><app:edited xmlns:app="http://www.w3.org/2007/app">2012-01-24T21:18:28.384-08:00</app:edited><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="lds" /><category scheme="http://www.blogger.com/atom/ns#" term="science" /><title>Wade E. Miller's Pre-Columbian Horses</title><content type="html">&lt;div style="text-align: left;"&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"&gt;
&lt;a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OW2XB03OdUE/Tx-QcY3vrcI/AAAAAAAABW0/KQiI4jNZwwI/s1600/FAIR2009004-1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"&gt;&lt;img border="0" height="320" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OW2XB03OdUE/Tx-QcY3vrcI/AAAAAAAABW0/KQiI4jNZwwI/s320/FAIR2009004-1.jpg" width="290" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
A common criticism against the Book of Mormon is it's mention of horses in a Pre-Cumbian era. Next to &lt;a href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2011/03/elephants-in-america.html"&gt;Elephants in America&lt;/a&gt;, it is one of the strangest anachronisms in the Book of Mormon.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mainstream scholarly thought is that American Horses died out about 10,000 years ago and remained extinct until they were reintroduced by Spanish conquistadors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In a presentation called &lt;a href="http://fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2009_Science_and_the_Book_of_Mormon.html"&gt;Science and the Book of Mormon&lt;/a&gt;, given at the eleventh annual FAIR Conference, 6 August 2009, Wade E. Miller mentions carbon-dating done on horse bones found in America. Many of them date back before the known extinction date for horses in America, but a few have dates ranging from 1400 to only 800 years ago.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the final paragraph, he says,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote class="tr_bq"&gt;
"Horses weren't here in America after about 10,000 years ago according to Smithsonian archaeologists. As you know horses ... are mentioned as being present among both the Jaredites and Nephites. It might surprise most of you that the history of the horse is mainly here in America. The very first horses come from North America, and their record goes back to about 58 million years ago. Horses were small, forest dwelling animals at the time. It wasn't until much later that horses reached the Old World, being roughly the size of modern forms then. Columbus only reintroduced the horse to America. I've actually done a lot of work with fossil horses from many areas and from different periods of time. A lot of my work has been done on them in Mesoamerica, primarily in Mexico. While the vast majority of dates for these various kinds of horses are well before man was known in the New World, a few of the dates are very surprisingly young. I have Carbon-14 dates on horses that are as recent as 800 years. Other dates are only 1200 years to 1400 years ago. More dates in this range are needed to be able to convince others that horses were indeed here before 1493, when they were reintroduced. Other paleontologists have produced dates on fossil horses that show they lived here long after the 10,000 years before stated. This slide is of a partial horse skeleton that was put together with my colleagues in Mexico. An earlier slide showed the location where it was collected. It was that picture that I said to remember from Durango, Mexico, where a lot of fossils were found within one small area."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I look forward to reading about the details of these and any other results he may have found.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/1482258322937378632-6806238640384706816?l=philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/8wFdJE0-EuDzidZAFoIwelBq0HQ/0/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/8wFdJE0-EuDzidZAFoIwelBq0HQ/0/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;
&lt;a href="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/8wFdJE0-EuDzidZAFoIwelBq0HQ/1/da"&gt;&lt;img src="http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~a/8wFdJE0-EuDzidZAFoIwelBq0HQ/1/di" border="0" ismap="true"&gt;&lt;/img&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~4/HQEnMNkPWkY" height="1" width="1"/&gt;</content><link rel="replies" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/feeds/6806238640384706816/comments/default" title="Post Comments" /><link rel="replies" type="text/html" href="http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/pre-columbian-horses.html#comment-form" title="3 Comments" /><link rel="edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/6806238640384706816?v=2" /><link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.blogger.com/feeds/1482258322937378632/posts/default/6806238640384706816?v=2" /><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PhilosophiesOfMenMingledWithScripture/~3/HQEnMNkPWkY/pre-columbian-horses.html" title="Wade E. Miller's Pre-Columbian Horses" /><author><name>Cristofer Urlaub</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/04001401371451376407</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel="http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail" width="32" height="32" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RSzNFc5bm7k/T1FXL3MNw-I/AAAAAAAABn4/lQupGSdeYa4/s220/photo.jpg" /></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/" url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OW2XB03OdUE/Tx-QcY3vrcI/AAAAAAAABW0/KQiI4jNZwwI/s72-c/FAIR2009004-1.jpg" height="72" width="72" /><thr:total>3</thr:total><feedburner:origLink>http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/pre-columbian-horses.html</feedburner:origLink></entry></feed>

