Camino de Santiago de Compostela

Re: Does anyone recognize this albergue?

frances — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:52:16 PST

A bit late but it is certainly Boadilla. I have the same photo but in the reverse. The pool was very cold in September, but the place was great

not recommended

frances — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:44:54 PST

Unless you like to sleep in a locked building until after 8:00 AM., with no running water between 10PM and 8:00 AM, I would avoid the Parochial Albergue in Acebo. Not my finest hours!

Re: Camino Frances Albergues

frances — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:39:25 PST

The pilgrim office in St Jean Pied de Port also will provide you with a very detailed list of all albergues and other accommodation in each town, It includes the services for each town and the number of beds. It is invaluable and is up to date as I used it when walking in September.

Re: Refuge d'Orisson in 2 weeks

frances — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:37:05 PST

I did not stay in Orisson so cannot help you there. However, since you are going in October it might not be necessary to have a reservation. There are lots of beds there. With respect to starting right away, I flew from Canada, (over two days travel) and made the mistake of starting my Camino the very next morning at 7a.m. I hope you will have some down time after your long trip from Australia, to rest and relax before starting. that way you will really enjoy the hike through the Pyrenees and not be dragging yourself like i was.

Re: Spooky Camino Stories

evanlow — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:33:01 PST

Well said Priscillian,

Unfortunately, this thread has digress.

To bring it back, what I found spooky is the "body" of St. James was lost for centuries and only recently found again (within 2 decades after the visions of Bernadette in Lourdes). Rivalry from across the Pyrenees? Whose body was it under the cathedral now if it was not St. James.

Another thing I find spooky are the so called bodies of saints that was cut up into pieces, put into jars at the Monastery of Samos. A normal person deserve a decent burial, but if you are a saint you are out of luck.

Re: Vegetarian food?

Pacharan — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:18:36 PST

La Trucha in El Acebo is a vegetarian B&B; the host is very welcoming and the homecooked food a world away from the chicken'n'chips pilgrim menus. I'm not a veggie but enjoyed it very much. Ensuite room, dinner and breakfast for 2 was 60 euros total so treat yourself if not on tight budget.

Camino frances in November and December

proon4 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:05:01 PST

Hi Anyone got info about doing camino Frances SJPDP in November into December ?... I done it in May 2009 and done the Camino Portugese in October 2009. I still cant get it out of my mind. I want to do it agin in next week or so....Pat

Re: Sleepwear?

Br. David — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:36:44 PST

Tia Valeria wrote:
Br David ........HHmm ... This sleepwear question does come up quite often and is usually answered by very sloppy people who feel it is quite normal to sleep in the clothes they will be wearing the next day.........

Some of us however are just trying to take versatile clothing which keeps the weight in our rucksacks down.

eerrmmm .. humour? ...

Walking in winter

polmaja — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:59:11 PST

Hi everyone!

My husband and I are planning to do the Sevilla - Santiago route starting in December 2009 or January 2010. We have done the Camino Frances a few years ago, in March, and had great fun.

We would like to know a few things from someone who has done de la Plata before:
- are majority of refugios open during the winter months?
- how cold does it get - on the camino and in refugios?
- should we carry a tent? (we would like to avoid that if not necessary)
- any other "winter advice" will come handy!

We have enough time (more than 2 months) and we do speak decent basic Spanish, so that should help.
Thanks in advance!
Maja & Dean

Re: Sleepwear?

MichaelB10398 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:12:50 PST

The Fez may work, but only if worn jauntily to the side; preferably the one from where the sun is shining.It is interesting what some will choose for sleeping attire in a public situation. There are those who are comfortable just being themselves and forcing everyone else to accept it. Others are governed by social mores and behave accordingly. Best to follow/do what is comfortable and don't be surprised when others do the same. I mean, except when wearing a fez; that must be red regardless.Thank you for the humor Br D.Michael

Re: Sleepwear?

Tia Valeria — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:46:22 PST

Br David ........HHmm ... This sleepwear question does come up quite often and is usually answered by very sloppy people who feel it is quite normal to sleep in the clothes they will be wearing the next day.........

Some of us however are just trying to take versatile clothing which keeps the weight in our rucksacks down.

Lacking the suggested items perhaps I should look for a Fez to use as a sunhat .

Re: Spooky Camino Stories

Priscillian — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:09:32 PST

We are getting a bit off topic, but I believe Sil has a point here and one I am only too well aware of.
Sil writes:

Let's presume that Rome proclaims the relics a fraud (they already accept that they are not those of St James) (reference Sil, please...this is the first I have heard of it it and it is a tad important to my research... ) and the church, municipalities, organisations and volunteers withdraw all support for the pilgrimage.
A massive machinery will come to a standstill. No more albergues, no maintenance of the paths, nobody to paint the yellow arrows, no menu del peregrinos, no cheap airflights to Santiago, no Compostela when you get there, no pilgrims' mass etc etc etc.
Will it matter? People can still hike the trail. And, although the archdiocese stresses that, "The most important thing here is the Goal, Not the Way. Jacobean Pilgrims do not go on pilgrimage for the sake of the Way. Through the Way they do get to the Tomb of Saint James "the Great" this is not true if the tomb is not that of St James. Most people say that the journey was important for them, not the destination anyway.
So, what would we be left with? A lovely 800km ramblers' hike across Spain on what used to be the Camino Pilgrimage until the 21st Century.

No, I don't believe that the pilgrimage will come to a stop, only that the focus would be recognised as what it is fast becoming: a way to the interior: consciousness rather than conscience which is what it has been about since the 11th century.
The Way of today does not resemble that of the past. Most "pilgrims" are not Catholic, many are not Christian. It doesn't make any difference: that is the beauty of the Camino.
While I hesitate to mention Dan Brown (Oh go on Tracy; you've already mentioned Shirley) the enormous worldwide success of the Da Vinci Code in particular and less so Angels and Demons is proof positive that people have had enough of being told what they "should" believe. I don't think the Camino de Santiago is any exception. Once I had to explain the word "Gnostic" to people. Now everyone is an expert and Gnosticism crops up in the most unexpected of places. We are even allowed to consider that Judas might have been a good guy after all!
Holy Moly!
The fact is that there IS a body in the cathedral, three in fact. The fact is that there WERE Christian burials around this person and they were 4th century not 1st. The fact is that the cathedral (and the three previous churches) WERE built upon the site of a sacred Roman site which was dedicated to Jupiter and why any self-respecting saint would want to buried in the middle of that lot...well! Saint James would turn in his grave - where ever he is!
As to whose IS buried there... Well, I have my suspicions and perhaps that person's spiritual views were far more similar to many who walk the Camino today than most may think.
And the albergues, sign-marking etc? None of this would change. In fact the idea of a Camino de Verdad might attract even more pilgrims. Certainly sitting on the steps of Santa Susanna's shrine last July I noticed an interesting phenomena: there was a line up of three hours to "hug the saint" but virtully no-one was going down the steps to visit the shrine. We seem to be more superstitious than religious these days.
Also I think that the very fact that so many pilgrims continue on to Fisterre is an indication of the way today's pilgrims differ from those of the 12th century yet seem to be drawn to the pagan Camino de las Estrellas. The Camino is supposed to be concluded at the Cathedral with certain rituals including a Catholic mass, but I doubt that those who continue consider themselves any less “Pilgrims” than those who walk for strictly religious reasons (and I noticed that a "Spiritual" option is not listed when getting the Compostela, only Religious/Spiritual which of course skews the statistics! i.e. the majority walk for Religious reasons - not.)
No, nothing would change: the Pilgrim's Mass would still go on (if as you say the church HAS admitted that James is not buried there - and it is the first I have heard of it - it's all a bit of a sham anyway. But I like the smell of the incense), the Botefumeiro will still dazzle us, and pilgrim menus will still be over-priced in many places.

And methinks thou art playing Devil's Avocado!

[u]Now we had better get back to Spooky Stories or Ivar will get mad at us![/u]

P.S. JW: Sorry I don't remember any particular stretch. I think I must have been at death's door at the time... I think it is more likely that there are fewer actually on the Camino and you know how reluctant we are to leave it for any length of time (on case it disappears…?) Oh dear, I really must take the ghost down and throw the pumpkin out!

Re: How much concrete is there

gittiharre — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:18:43 PST

Thanks guys, yes I was asking about the Vezelay route, hmmm, that is a shame. I am trying to decide which route to do next, but after walking 400 km on the Austrian route, mostly on concrete paths, I do not want to do that again. I somehow did not feel like I was really in nature.The Le Puy route was great from that perspective and so were the Czech Greenways. The Camino Frances had it's share of concrete, but somehow it was not so bad, because there were many other compensations. Regads, Gitti

Re: Sleepwear?

Br. David — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:05:28 PST

( I say, Which nation's citizens don't shower regularly? ? )HHmm ... This sleepwear question does come up quite often and is usually answered by very sloppy people who feel it is quite normal to sleep in the clothes they will be wearing the next day.Now, this may be permissable for those from some of our younger democracies and newly freed colonies (within the last three hundred years) but for those from a civilised nation (and there is only one of course) this will just not do at all.At all refugios one is expected to wear a decent pair of flanelette pyjamas at the very least. Silk can be worn of course, but as tailored pyjamas only, not as skin-fitting long underwear, and only - and I must stress this - only when worn with a Fez, whilst smoking a Turkish cigarette, and holding (languidly) a gin and tonic (in one of the glasses your servant will be carrying for you).A dressing gown can be considered as optional only by the very avant-garde (how would it be if there were a fire?) so, not knowing who you are, I must tell you that the norm - ask any pilgrim - is a tartan wool dressing gown with gold piping (weighs a mere 2.3765478632 kgs).This is the absolute minimum that can be worn at night whilst on Camino.However, to really fit in and to feel quite at home and relaxed in all eventualities allow me to suggest that a pair of plain Morroccan leather slippers would complete the ensemble - but plain slippers mind you, not tooled with any fancy decoration or design - you do not want to appear foolish after all, heaven fordbid.Take this advice and I assure you that you will have a most memorable pilgrimage (as will the other pilgrims that you meet each evening).I do hope that this helps.

Re: Does anyone recognize this albergue?

falcon269 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:05:19 PST

is closed for the season, but Eduardo once again presided over a successful season. He has been trying for at least five years to get away to university, so far without success. No doubt the is a very successful family endeavor, but it was a little sad to hear him repeat his dreams to move past it, knowing how powerful are the forces that keep him there. He is so good at being a host, maybe it is his true calling, and the pilgrims who stop there certainly benefit from his presence and that of his family.

Re: Sleepwear?

Tia Valeria — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:34:22 PST

Just to add to my previous post:-I have a lightweight Rohan dress which I use for going to the showers when caravanning. It is easier than trying to keep trousers off a damp floor. I plan to use it on the Camino for warm evenings; while my other clothes dry; as nightwear on warmer nights. Most of us probably are making dual use of day wear as sleepwear and haven't listed it seperately so thanks for raising this Brooke, it made me stop and really think it through

Re: Where are all the Americans???

Caminando — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:26:11 PST

Deirdre wrote: And I don't worry about people, Americans or others, finding the Camino. I believe the Camino will find the people.

Buen Camino,

Yes!

Re: Fatima pilgrimage

peregrina2000 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:39:06 PST

Hi, manosge,

The Confraternity's online guide to the Caminho Portugues from Lisbon to Porto will get you from the Cathedral in Lisbon to Santarem, http://www.csj.org.uk/guides-online.htm

From Santarem it's another two days to Fatima, and the web sites Sil mentioned have information about towns and stages. I don't know about the quality of the Fatima marking -- I walked from Lisbon to Porto this summer, and although I occasionally saw the Fatima signs, I would not have wanted to rely solely on them for directions. The Galician Amigos Association have painted yellow arrows on the entire Camino route from Lisbon to Santiago, and the way is now very well marked (except for a few eucalyptus forests), so from Lisbon to Santarem at least, you should be fine.

Are you planning to continue on to Santiago from Fatima? If so, you will have a couple of days going "against the markers" (in other words, you'll be walking north on the route south to Fatima), but then you will join up again with the Camino around Coimbra and you will be back with the yellow arrows.

Laurie

Re: Where are all the Americans???

Deirdre — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:30:06 PST

Hi everyone,

It has been a long time since i posted here - for a variety of reasons. But I found this thread interesting and can't resist adding my little bit.

The first thought that came to me is that the US is a country of 350 million people. The numbers of those who know about the Camino may be deceiving. Relatively speaking those of us who have walked the Way find ourselves in a distinct minority. However, I am constantly encountering more and more people who have walked and have in interest in the Camino. I have met with a few people here in CT prior to their departure and I have one colleague who says that his having completed the Camino del Norte this year was due in no small part to a presentation I have done for a number of my colleagues. And I recently read an article in our local Catholic newspaper about a local parish priest who completed the Camino this summer.

When I lived in Spain in the 1970's, I never heard of the Camino. It is only in relative recent history that it has gained a resurgence in popularity. Much of this has been stated already, and please do not think I am "America bashing" - this is just an observation - it is difficult to avoid generalizations. Many Americans are quite parochial. They stay close to home, prefer traveling in their personal cars and feel that there is plenty to see in this country (a valid point!) without ever leaving her borders.

Americans also tend towards "family vacations". Although I have seen some families on the Camino, I would venture that if I were planning a "family holiday", the Camino would not be my choice. And there are other things. Americans have different "spacial" and "privacy" issues. Good heavens, in this country it is nearly considered a personal affront if an individual even suggests to sit at table with a complete stranger - even it s/he is only one person at a table for 4 or 6 and the other person is also alone! Don't invade my "personal space". When I have mentioned sharing a loo or not having private men's and women's separate facilities, the looks I get are sheer horror! So I think alot of it is simply cultural. Most people are fascinated, interested and then say, "That's amazing that you did that, but not for me!" Which is fine. I liken it to my profession of teaching language, if I can get one student in a hundred who discovers a love of the language and a desire to pursue it, I have succeeded. I feel the same way about the Camino.

For me, I shall return. My 2009 plans were suddenly and unexpectedly curtailed However, I know I shall be back to Spain and the Camino still calls. And I don't worry about people, Americans or others, finding the Camino. I believe the Camino will find the people.

Buen Camino,

Re: Pilgrims who have died

sillydoll — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 04:03:36 PST

This is a lovely post John.

When Pope John Paul died - and remember, he was also a pilgrim, as a young man and then twice as Pope - Lady Foppa wrote this poem:

E agora, Joao? (And now, John?)
Lady foppa (autora)

E agora, Joao?

O sino tocou.
O pai te chamou.
O tempo expirou.
O mundo chorou.
Voce nos deixou.

E agora, Joao?

E agora, da flor?
E agora, do amor?
E agora, da dor?
E agora, da paz?
E agora, de nos?

E agora, Joao....

Leve as preces.
Leve a amizade.
Leve a fe'.
Leve os abracos.
Leve a saudade.

E agora, Joao....

E agora, o adeus.
E agora, a gratidao.
E agora o descanso.
E agora a salvacao!

E agora, Joao?

E agora, a nacao?
E agora, a cancao?
E agora, a uniao?
E agora, teus filhos?
E agora, o perdao?

E agora, Joao....

A porta se abriu.
O anjo cantou.
A estrela ascendeu.
O mundo aplaudiu!
Deus te espera...:.
"E AGORA, JOAO!"

Translation:

"And now, John?"
Lady foppa, author)

And now, John?

The bell tolled.
The Father called you.
The time expired.
The world cried.
You left us.

And now, John?

And now, what about the flower?
And now, what about the love?
And now, what about the pain?
And now, what about the peace?
And now, what about us?

And now, John......

Carry with you the prayers.
Carry with you the friendship.
Carry with you the faith.
Carry with you the hugs.
Carry with you our longing.

And now, John.....

And now, the good-bye.
And now, the gratitude.
And now to your rest.
And now to your salvation!

And now, John?

And now, what about the nation?
And now, what about the song?
And now, what about unity?
And now, what about your children?
And now, what about forgiveness?

And now, John.......

The door opened.
The angel sang.
The star ascended.
The world applauded!
God awaits you....:

"IT'S TIME, JOHN!"

http://www.slideshare.net/cab3032/e-agora-joao

Re: How much concrete is there

omar504 — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:50:38 PST

Gittiharre-I think you are asking about the Vezelay route. If so I ,and JL also from this forum,have just completed this route and I was surprised at the amount of road walking-much is on secondary roads but it's still a road! There are great stretches through forests though.

Re: "COMMENCING CAMINO "THANKS

JIMBO — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:10:53 PST

Have just read comments of support posted at the start of our camino. Much thanks for this and also for comments placed on http://www.stjames2stjames.blogspot.com
Not having a lot of withdrawal feelings as I return to Australian work tomorrow. Overwhelming feeling of gratitude and some relief in being able to complete this journey safely . I have lasting memories of places and people on the way.
Best wishes to anyone now journeying and those who are planning.Buen Camino

ps The Camino Travel Centre was a great help for us in post camino planning..much thanks

Re: Fatima pilgrimage

sillydoll — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:02:44 PST

There are numerous websites for the Coast Path or 'Caminho do Tejo'

You can buy a pocket guide - the CNC - Centro Nacional de Cultura - in collaboration with the Readers Digest, has published a pocket guide of the Way of the Tagus to the practical information necessary for the pilgrim walking through security in this way. The guide can be obtained at the headquarters of the TNC in Lisbon (Rua António Maria Cardoso, 68) at a price of 14.50 euros. For Portugal may be sent to collection or by sending the check. May be requested by mail, fax or e-mail.
http://www.cnc.pt/Artigo.aspx?ID=51

This was a group website - perhaps you'll find some info here:

http://www.atomicdelicia.org/fatima/

Step 1 - Alenquer to Azambuja, 24 km
Step 2 - Azambuja to Santarem, 30 km
Step 3 - Santarem to Olhos d'Agua, 27 km
Step 4 - Olhos d'Agua to Fatima, 29 km

And a few route maps here:

http://www.lxjovem.pt/?id_tema=241

And a blog here:

http://roadbook.blogspot.com/2008/09/ca ... dia-2.html

http://aventura-te.com/caminhotejo_aventura.htm

Re: How much concrete is there

sillydoll — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:28:59 PST

Camino Frances??Using the Brierley guide for the Camino Frances, which splits the distance for each day into “paths –quiet roads – main roads” the 798kms from St Jean works out like this: 505 km on paths/tracks 202.6km on quiet roads (mostly through small villages) 90.6km on main roads

Re: Fatima pilgrimage

anniethenurse — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:16:09 PST

you can find some more info in John Brierly`s guide Camino Portugués.
You can download another guide on this website: http://www.csj.org.uk/guides.htm.

I haven´t decided yet which camino next year but CP from Porto to Santiago could be the one for me.
annie

Re: Fatima pilgrimage

manosge — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:37:40 PST

can anyone recommend a book - travel guide for the pilgrimage to fatima from lisbon that i am interested in? any ideas on how to do it?

Re: How much concrete is there

JohnnieWalker — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:29:24 PST

on which route?

Pilgrims who have died

JohnnieWalker — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:47:15 PST

sillydoll wrote:
"There have been many deaths on the camino - a few weather related, a few accidents, and many 'natural' causes like heart attacks etc.
There are dozens of memorials to pilgrims who have died on the camino. (It is thought that the church of Eunate Santa Maria) could have been a funery church.)
In medieval times, the pilgrim who died whilst on pilgrimage would have a safe passage to heaven, bypassing purgatory altogether.
I added a Pilgrims Memorial post on my blog a couple of years ago - you can see some of the memorials here:
http://amawalker.blogspot.com/2007/12/p ... orials.php"

That posting by Sil and her Pilgrims Memorial inspired these thoughts today:

http://johnniewalker-santiago.blogspot. ... r-own.html

Re: My first time

KiwiNomad06 — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:13:43 PST

freespirit wrote:Hi Clarisse,it will be my first time next year,some time in June 2010,iam hoping to start from Carcasonne,along the Chemin du Piemont Pyreneen,along the foothills to Oloron st Marie,v Lourdes,i myself would also be glad of any details or info on this routeJohn

John,
You may have seen this website already. http://vppyr.free.fr/vpp-index-partir.htm It is in French, but if you don't read French, the photos are inspirational! You can get an idea of what each stage is like by clicking on Les etapes.
Margaret

How much concrete is there

gittiharre — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:41:46 PST

Please could someone tell me how much of the route is over roads/pavements as opposed to natural paths? The Le Puy route was great as there were a lot of natural paths, is it similar on the Vezelay route? Thanks, Gitti