PropertySCAM - fighting the blight of green belt land plot sales - Comments

Comment From GC

GC — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:36:28 +0100

Hi there, Greetings from Malaysia. Jardin Smith International (Singapore based) is currently plots of land in WAter Orton Birmingham. As usual, they claim there's lots of potential, highly sought after location etc. Any comments?

Comment From Maggie

Maggie — Tue, 7 Jul 2009 23:19:49 +0100

I also tried to claim from Barclaycard who said that I had no proven case of breach of contract or misrepresentation. I sent the matter to the financial Ombudsman and am awaiting a reply, but looking at an earlier post I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

Comment From Ash

Ash — Tue, 7 Jul 2009 22:07:00 +0100

Hi,

I sent barclaycard a letter re-emphasing that I paid 8000 pounds as part payment to UKLI buy plot of 28K. the contract says they would apply for a planning permission. FSA closed UKLI on the basis that they were operating illegally because it was a CIS as they promised to apply for planning permission for investors. So I claimed all the money be paid to me under article 75 of consumer credit act 1974. My arguement was that the service for which I paid is not received by me as the company UKLI was closed on the basis that it would provide me the service (applying for planning permission).
Barclaycard said - as you have received the land that you arranged to purchase, there is no proven case of breach of contract or misrepresentation against UKLI limited.

Any thoughts or advice on this Please?

Comment From Graham Norwood

Graham Norwood — Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:23:14 +0100

I am a journalist writing a story on land banking scams for The Observer newspaper. If you are happy to contribute to this, please email me via my website. Thank you. Graham Norwood

Comment From kev lockwood

kev lockwood — Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:01:33 +0100

has anyone heard of this company, thinking of invsting in site chapel lane in dover. has anyone got any advice

Comment From Chris C

Chris C — Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:20:01 +0100

Srini re Abacus Investment Management. I would check with the local authority in Folkestone. From the Abacus Investment Management website they look like a typical land banking company. Lots of quotes on how much UK building land is appreciating and very little on why their land will be worth anything. This is association marketing because there is no real link between the land they talk about in glowing terms and the land you actually buy.

The web site does not say they sell rezoned land it only talks about what would happen if the land is rezoned. Based on other land banking companies the land almost certainly will not be re-zoned.

Comment From Doug Bees

Doug Bees — Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:24:58 +0100

I am a plot owner of Kensworth previously bought from The ELP. What are other investors out there now doing?

Comment From siri

siri — Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:17:42 +0100

Has anyone come across Abacus Investment Management (London) offering plots for sale in re-zoned land near Folkstone ? They say they are FSA regulated and customers cash will be protected by an escrow bank account, offering full protection if things go pear shaped.

Advice welcomed.

Comment From siri

siri — Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:17:39 +0100

Comment From Lee Morris

Lee Morris — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:50:00 +0100

If anyone has purchased via Countrywide Land Holdings please email me at lee_s_morris@hotmail.com.

I would be interested to hear from other owners.
Regards
Lee

Comment From Habib

Habib — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:21:07 +0100

Hi Guys,

I bought some land in Holy Cross Green Clent in Stourbridge a couple of years back through Glebe Estates.
I was wondering whether anyone else has, and if so whether they would like to get in touch as I would like to sell it and it will be easier if it could be sold as a whole rather than as single plots.

Please contact me at habibmushtaq@yahoo.co.uk or on 07896483401.

Thanks

Habib

Comment From Vijay chapaneri

Vijay chapaneri — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:58:06 +0100

I baught 2 plots from property spy in Hollywood solihull. I was told by Kidd-Rappinet they were acting to recover some help that was back in july 2007 heard nothing from them anything happening

Comment From G Burnt

G Burnt — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:12:17 +0100

Unfortunately it is quite hard to come to terms with the fact that I have lost a considerable amount of money to these evil-minded people. As a result I am determined to do everything I can to trace those people who have defrauded me, and others like myself, and make them at least answer for their wicked actions.

I have done some further research on the people behind the Land and Property Group of Greenwich and I have uncovered the following. The real name of the main person behind that office is JEAN MULLER instead of JOHN Muller and he actually lives in Greenwich. He is also involved with another company registered at an address in Greenwich under the name Abunduntia Limited.

Mark Hamilton is an American living in London. Out of everyone involved in that Greenwich office he is the hardest person to get information on.

MEERA SHAH is originally from Harrow and was working at English Land Partnership when she was the girlfriend of the infamous Kevin Jones. Apparently the latter used her to launder a big part of the money he dishonestly made through his various scams. I found out that on several occasions Kevin Jones paid big sums of money in cheques in Meera Shah's bank account which were not declared.

More than likely Jean Muller, Mark Hamilton and Meera Shah are still involved in other forms of scams and still defrauding people of their hard earned money and savings. Beware of them.

Comment From stjoe

stjoe — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:51:59 +0100

KUALA LUMPUR, June 19 2009 (Bernama) -- The Companies Commission of Malaysia (SSM - Suruhanjaya Syarikat Malaysia) has issued compound notices to Profitable Plots Sdn Bhd, Edgeworth Properties (M) Sdn Bhd and UK Land International (M) Sdn Bhd for contravening section 91(1) of the Companies Act 1965.

According to SSM section 91(1) of the act, a person shall not issue or offer to the public for subscription or purchase any interest unless at the time of the issue of the interest there is in force an approved deed.

The three companies were raided on Oct 24 last year following queries received from members of the public that the companies were offering illegal investment schemes to members of the public, SSM said in a statement here today.

Comment From kk

kk — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:34:36 +0100

I am very dissapointed to read above at the amount of people similarly scammed. I bought land in Banstead Surrey from property Spy a few years ago. The land is worthless...in my opinion the only way it will be worth anything is if all plot owners from lakers rise merge and form an alliance or lobby together for change of use for the land. I'm sure if we all approach the council it is harder for them to ignore...

Comment From Lou Ong

Lou Ong — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 04:36:50 +0100

With all the furore about whether Profitable Group is a serious contender for buying Newcastle United or just trying to gain publicity there is a nice Guardian piece here mentioning Cherry Tree Grove. But even in Singapore I dont think the death penalty applies to corporate misbehaviour though

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/12/mike-ashley-newcastle-united-singapore-profitable

Prospective Newcastle investors face questions over hotel plans

• Land offered where planning permission was refused
• Three directors also on board of company wound up in 2007

As Mike Ashley considers how Singapore's Profitable Group will seek to turn a profit from investing �100m in Newcastle United and turning it into a fans' trust, investors are wondering where is the upside in other Profitable interests.

Among those interests is "Profitable Plots ... a strategic land investment company". This offers the chance to buy land such as at Cherry Tree Grove in Colchester which, once planning permission is received, will instantly increase in value.

But how to reconcile those promises with two separate local authority refusals of plans to build a 77-bed and then 87-bed hotel at Cherry Tree Grove on the grounds that it is too far out of town and in a Countryside Conservation Area? One respondent during the planning application process thinks he knows the answer. "These companies purchase protected land and then make proposals for development. They then resell the land to investors at 10 times or more profit in Asia and Canada, giving the impression that planning permission will be achieved," the respondent wrote to planners.

Not so, says Profitable's Canadian client services manager, Dan Strumos. "These accusations are false. Our headquarters are in Singapore and that would be the last place on earth for corporate shenanigans because the penalty for it is death."

Comment From Dave

Dave — Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:29:22 +0100

Has anyone reading this site had dealings with Scala Land Group? I bought a plot in Saxmundham, Norfolk in May 2006. Needless to say there have been no developments with this since. I also have worries over the eligibilty of a person to be a Director of the Group from information from Companies House records.
Has this

Comment From CC

CC — Sun, 7 Jun 2009 01:56:34 +0100

The Profitable Group Cherry Tree Grove site in Colchester mentioned in post 30 above was refused planning permission for a second time on the 5th June. The result is published here.

http://www.planning.colchester.gov.uk/WAM/findCaseFile.do?appNumber=090312

Comment From Chris

Chris — Thu, 28 May 2009 08:58:39 +0100

Thursday 14th May 2009
Lancaster and Morecambe Gazette

PEOPLE are being warned against a new “land bank” scam operating in East Lancashire. [UK]

The county council's Trading Standards service is issuing the warning after receiving 750 complaints about financial scams and bogus sales in the last year - many of them from older people or their concerned relatives.

The land bank scam sees people persuaded to pay large sums for small plots of Green Belt land round local towns on the unwritten understanding that the land would be reclassified and would become valuable building plots.

But the land is usually in areas protected from development by planning law and virtually worthless.

“Attempts at defrauding people are more commonplace than anyone believes. Fraudsters prey on the most vulnerable people and we must all be vigilant and pull together to ensure people who have worked their whole lives do not lose their entire life savings to unscrupulous individuals.

“The message to people is that if they have concerns about an investment make sure that the company is registered with the Financial Services Authority.”

Comment From kiran

kiran — Wed, 27 May 2009 09:20:57 +0100

Sorry to change the subject, but have we lost the fight to get anything from the land we have bought from Property Spy? Are we still the rightful owners of land that is not worth a penny? Surely we can stil do something about this, we have all invested a lot of money into this scam and are now left with notihng/// I have lost touch with people that i have spoken to on this site over the last couple of years, if something has progressed since pls feel free to contact me,.. I bought land in Bansted..

Comment From Chris C

Chris C — Sun, 17 May 2009 12:29:18 +0100

Ashish

People will be willing to step forward to soak up your money for as long as you are willing to show it. Most of the land banking company's had consultants and lawyers happy to fill forms and process applications. These people often show up once the company has failed offering to take more of your money to help. They take the money and they rarely help.

The best people for you to talk to would be the the local authority and you can probably do this for free.

Comment From anonymous

anonymous — Fri, 15 May 2009 06:39:18 +0100

hi all, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE A GET RICH QUICK SCHEME. These schemes are all brain child of a few brilliant intelligent people who use there extreme IQ to con people rather than use for the betterment of society. And for all those ordinary citizens who think they can never be conned please try to understand that the easiest thing to do on planet earth is to fool people. And thats why millions every year fall pray to these con masters. The best investment is to place your money in your bank or use your common sense on deposits and investments. If you think who I am to say all this - well I AM AN EX-CON MASTER. HEHE

Comment From Chew

Chew — Wed, 13 May 2009 12:42:07 +0100

The above looks like a typical Land Banking advert to me. If an investment company tells me after public reports or investigations that they were audited with flying colors I would like to see the auditors report that says so.

One of the many problems with Land Banking companies is that is is very hard to find independent positive information that does not originate from either the land banking company or investors/sales people in the early stages of excitement.

Builders and their friends and bankers want to make money as much as anyone else. If they can buy land cheaply and sell it expensively without the effort of building on it they will. The idea that foreign investors buying marked up plots of Canadian land they dont understand anything about will be able to put one over on a local Canadian builder or local savvy investor seems laughable to me.

Anyway this site is primarily about UK land plots.

Comment From Lou Rider

Lou Rider — Wed, 13 May 2009 00:45:03 +0100

I am presently considering a sales position with Edgeworth Properties and am doing my due diligence on the company before I lend my good name to potential investors. I understand that Edgeworth was one of the companies investigated and subsequently audited. They came through with flying colours. It upsets me that news of investigation automatically equals fraud in people's minds.
On a personal note, this company physically develops the land in Alberta Canada, where I reside. The actual "dirt"is being developed in various sites that I have personally visited.
My family moved here from out of province last year and I can tell you, that buying a house in Red Deer, Calgary or Edmonton, ANY house, was almost impossible. You couldnt get a developed lot for love or money. The undeveloped lots that Edgewrth is selling are in the path of urban growth that is very real and tied to energy, ie oil.
For everyone's info, the Alberta oilsands which produce one milion barrels of oil a day currently are targeted to produce 3 milion by 2010.
The housing needed for workers for this is a real concern.
Fort MacMurray, located in the oilsands area is so desperate for housing that people rent out a BED in their garage for $1200. per month. But workers pay it because they can earn so much money working in the oil field.
This was when oil was at $1.50 a barrel, last year, and of course, since the economic meltdown, has gone down to $50. a barrel.
Make no mistake, oil will rise; it has to. I submit to you that the largest consumers of oil on the planet, the United States, would rather buy their oil from Canada than Saudi Arabia.
Growth of land development here is not as fast and furious as it was, but it is still GROWING. The lot development program for Camrose, Alberta was offered (here to Canadians, by the way, not overseas) on Monday last week with the first phase of 48 lots. By Thursday, there were 20 left and I believe that is down 4 days later even more. Builders want this land. They simply do not purchase it until they are ready to build. When the land is serviced, the price goes up. The builder doesn't care because he passes the current lot price on to the house buyer. He does not want his money tied up for the development period. Hence the opportunity for the investor to profit. Since Edgeworth already has the research, zoning, and all applicable licences and permits in place before they offer the land, and develops the land through their building company, they are there from start to finish.
Thank you for this site.

Comment From Ashish

Ashish — Fri, 8 May 2009 12:51:53 +0100

Would like to know whether it is indeed possible for investors in plots at Borehamwood could form an investors group which could then appoint a planning consultant, form a joint corpus in an escrow account to fund the necessary lobbying and expenditure at the Hertsmere Borough Council to secure the planning permission ?

If so how would it be possible for a Borhamwood plot owners list to be obtained with all details so that we may move forward as UKLI has all but abandoned the dreams of securing the planning permission despite having taken money built in the plot prices charged.

Someone alternatively has to be appointed for it to happen.....

Comment From sam

sam — Fri, 1 May 2009 20:25:51 +0100

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but to all those hoping to get their money back via Section 75 or through the Financial Ombudsman, it is a total waste of time. We firstly tried via section 75, and then when declined by MBNA we went to the Financial Ombudsman. After waiting over a year we had our results back today - we have no case!!!!

We bought the 2 plots in Dunton Green through Property Spy - our solicitors was Kidd Rapinet and credit card was MBNA.

There is no justice in the system. Do not waste your money going to a solicitor

(Sorry Sanje - cant find your number to inform you)

Comment From CC

CC — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:10:51 +0100

This email should be on the Hounslow Council website.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/10130/response/24695/attach/7/Green%20Belt%20Enquiry%20Concorde%20Village%20070409.htm.html

It is clear and sensible and anyone invests after reading this cant say they were not aware of the risks. �250K sure is a lot of money to invest speculatively!

Comment From Joe

Joe — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:03:46 +0100

Hounslow Council have published a lot of information about the Profitable Group Concorde Village / Feltham Lakes site under a freedom of information request.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/position_on_green_belt_and_lower

They have published the questions they have received including some questions from Property Scam. Nice study in how a planning department works. They do seem to get tired of answering the same question but there is some humour as well. Enjoy.

Comment From Tim

Tim — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 05:03:12 +0100

Howard

I think comment 13 in this thread covers the points you should ask JSI.
Understand the potential for planning permission from someone who is not a JSI salesperson. You should also understand your downside. What the land would be worth on the open market if you do not get planning permission. How would you sell it ? Do not confuse the price you pay with the value of the land.

To email or call the local planning authority.

For Plank Lane, Water Orton, Birmingham that would be here
http://www.northwarks.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=372

For Titchfield Fareham
http://www.fareham.gov.uk/general/contactus.aspx

To find out who owns the land and how much was paid for the total area (remember you are probably buying a small plot). The method to do that is explained here.

http://www.landreg.gov.uk/kb/Default.asp?ToDo=view&questId=8&catId=2

Comment From

Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:45:23 +0100