Diana spent many months talking to the people she profiles in Encounters. The result is a deep dive into not just the UFO subject, but a real look at the mindsets and approaches to those interested in examining this mystery. Her portrait of space psychologist Iya Whiteley is particularly fascinating, and reveals how carefully listening to the reports and emotions of astronauts and pilots not only saved countless lives, but could also revise the database on UFO reports. The “overview effect” experienced by many astronauts is particularly useful in this regard.

We talked about the need of the humanities and the sciences to look at the UFO subject on equal terms, and the importance of the oral transmission of information, rather than the written word, which is widely used and respected, especially in the space program. And surprisingly, the use of the technique among “invisible college” scientists and academics.

We also discussed another of the researchers in the book, who looks at AI not so much as a threat, but a chance to engage in a learning dialogue with a vast intelligence, and her view that it is an alien intelligence from the future, helping us to evolve into our next incarnation as a human species.

We end with quote from “Tyler D,” character from her first book and his advice about the UFO subject, which was that “We are not meant to figure it out.”

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I have known Thea Wirsching for a few months and my respect for her intellect and deep knowledge of tarot and astrology and their place in American History continues to amaze. Her advice and her singular project entitled the American Renaissance Tarot was one of the guides and inspirations for our own Ufology Tarot. She recently gave a fascinating lecture at the Philosophical Research Society about the esoteric roots of Edgar Allan Poe.

We talked about her path to her doctorate in English and her dissertation on the hermetic and the occult roots of American culture, particularly in the 19th century. In academia, she pointed out, “the occult is transgressive” and “conjures up the devil” for many, which made her degree more difficult to accomplish. She said that academics often “do not allow the subjects studied the dignity of their beliefs” and we talked about how this might be changing.

Thea mentioned the African American occultist Paschal Beverly Randolph and his influence on Aliester Crowley and that he quite possibly authored the first vampire novel. He was part of a very real and important brand of American hermeticism that influenced occult movements worldwide, and was disseminated through fiction and writers such as Melville, Hawthorne, Thoreau, Emerson, and Whitman and ended up in the teachings of Theosophy and the practice of Spiritualism (which itself was an American phenomenon which spread worldwide.) These authors and others, as well as significant figures from American history play important roles in the American Renaissance Tarot deck and book.

She emphasized that while U.S. history is filled with triumphs and horrors, that we must look at the negative as well as the positive in order to make peace with it and change for the better.

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For this first RM show of 2023, we began with the inspiration of her great great grandfather Albert Durrant Watson, who was president of the Canadian Association of Psychical Research in the early 20th century. Morgan’s main goal is to let her audiences know that psychic events and abilities are normal and pervasive. She emphasized that, especially in this realm, we get and experience what we expect, adding, “If people could connect to this in a way that is beneficial, your life really does change.”

We spoke on how many paranormal events happen to people who don’t expect it or don’t care or just when they turn off equipment. Knudsen spoke about the “power of giving up,” adding, “As soon as you let go, you stop the resistance to what’s trying to happen.” She also surprised me with her take on the general reaction of her fellow Canadians towards these subjects, which tends to be conservative and almost dismissive.

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Chris Aubeck’s previous book, co-authored with Jacques Vallée, was entitled Wonders in the Sky, published in 2010. It was a comprehensive examination of aerial phenomena reports from antiquity to the year 1879. His new title is Alien Artifacts: From Antiquity to  1880: The Forgotten Story of How We Came to Believe in Visitors From the Stars. The book describes the long and intricate history of ideas about extraterrestrial worlds and their inhabitants. The examples stretch back to ancient Greece and include the first speculations on the origins of the ancient alien theory, the first ideas of extraterrestrial craft, original accounts of what we would know today as flying saucer contactees, and even the racist origins of ideas about superior beings. Chris says he’s been told that his research is “like drawing back a curtain to reveal a long forgotten history of an obsession we thought was new.”

In his first appearance on the show in over 6 years, Chris described his research into the history of ideas about extraterrestrials in archives. libraries, and the internet, and how he has discovered that “we’ve read so much into it based on our expectations.” Many UFO stories in the 19th century and before were invented as fiction or to sell newspapers and other printed media, but many of them contain quite modern elements, such as ideas about alien artifacts and writing, and even elements of abduction stories. Aubeck says that this is not proof that UFO sightings and encounters are made up, but that we need to look at cultural contexts and antecedents for them to gain perspective. We also discussed the writings of 18th century Swedish mystic Emanuel Swedenborg, and his descriptions of people from other planets that contain many elements that would appear in 20th century UFO contactee literature. Another fascinating tangent was the strange (to us) theory beginning in the 19th century, that meteorites had arrived from other worlds carrying flora and fauna, sometimes still living.

(Song credit: “They’re Here” by Boots Walker)

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Clas Svahn is a journalist by profession, and also the Chairman of the Archives For The Unexplained, located in Norrköping Sweden. The AFU is dedicated to collecting materials about UFOs, ufology, Forteana, cryptozoology, paranormal phenomena and folklore. It is a nonprofit foundation, and the collections comprise approximately 3.5 kilometers of shelf space in 15 different locations. The collections include over 55,000 books in various languages, 88,000 magazine issues representing 8,000 annual magazines, 650,000 newspaper clippings, 30,000 photographs, films, and tape, vinyl records, as well as memorabilia, scale models, paintings, paraphernalia, posters, clothes, toys, and other items.

Clas has written a book about the archives, entitled “Files of the Unexplained,” which is basically a tour of the archives and some of its rare and unusual holdings. We spoke about the beginnings of the archive, and how Svahn and his staff scour the globe for collections of books and other ephemera. He says he brings in about 2 tons of material every year. Svahn says he “doesn’t take no for an answer” when hunting down obscure material and has even retrieved material from dump sites after relatives told him they disposed of valuable collections. Amazingly, the AFU also holds records of the Scole experiment.

Svahn also told me that he spent a day with famous abductee Betty Hill and learned that she claimed to have seen a UFO crash years before her famous abduction and even to have picked up pieces of the craft.

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To me, Jeff Kripal’s new book, The Superhumanities is a call to action and a radical reassessment of not just the humanities, but what it means to be human and the potential of what it could mean. You cannot skim this book. It is one of those rare volumes where every sentence and every word is essential. Kripal also eschews the language of the academy for a style that is accessible to any interested reader. Jack London said that good writing is clear thinking written out. Jeff Kripal’s writing and indeed this newest book is a prime example.

Jeff says that the word “Superhumanities” is a “nerdy expression” that he made up for a segment of the humanities with an accent of altered states of consciousness or altered states of knowledge that have produced extraordinary results in such areas as art, literature, philosophy and activism. These methods of perception and inspiration have been routinely ignored or even suppressed by academia and the sciences. He sees the reason that we hold on to outdated attitudes on the uncanny or paranormal are so “we can have our conclusions.” In other words, the worldviews of many of us (especially in academia, the sciences, or news media) is due to the desire to keep things out rather than challenge assumptions. When we talked about the role of science in looking at anomalies, Jeff came up with a great phrase: “Using science to look for the paranormal is like going to the north pole to find zebras.”

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As usual with Mike, we ranged far and wide in our discussions, touching on such subjects as the (in)accessibility of the MUFON database, and the inscrutability of Terence McKenna, but we soon moved into the subject matter of his newest book. Mike argued that the famous “grandfather paradox” of time travel is not true if we use the idea of a “block time” reality, where everything exists simultaneously, and all seeming paradoxes are accounted for: “Everything you did before you left was already there.” He brought up the theoretic concept of “closed timelike curves” which would allow backwards time travel without violating the laws of Special Relativity.

We also touched on a few of the cases discussed in the book and how they apply to the extratempestrial model, such as the recurring contacts of Mike and Leo Dworshak, which they say began in 1932. Mike also theorized about certain points in time existing as “ports” for embarkation, just as they are in space.

In the end, we spoke on the conundrum of how academics and others reach a certain point in the study of UFOs where they cannot go back to all of their old models and denials of the phenomenon.

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Joshua Cutchin’s new book Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal is a combination of “I knew that” and “How did I not know that?” for me. It seemed that rather than being a rare and ephemeral thing, that placing the UFO experience in the context of something eventually encountered by everyone, namely death, that the seemingly inexplicable is almost normalized.

The title came from a quote by Whitley Strieber’s late wife Anne, who said that the UFO and abduction experience “has something to do with what we call death.” Josh took that concept and unfolded it into a two-volume, encyclopedic work that will be a reference for years and probably decades to come.

We discussed the concept of “psychopomps” and how they are analogous to what we term as “aliens,” the prevalence of animals and beings with animal heads in abduction and close encounter reports, and the idea of the UFO itself as a symbol of transport, such as the boat that carries the souls across the river of death in many mythologies. The research into and writing about these ideas and many others Josh said were “an absolutely transformative experience in many ways with some of the most profound synchronicities I’ve ever had.”

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I met remote viewing pioneer Paul Smith at the recent Archives of the Impossible conference in Houston, TX in March. We hit it off immediately and I suggested he come on RM.

Smith has been teaching remote viewing (RV) techniques to the public for longer than anyone in the business. He was recruited to the U.S. Army’s State Gate RV program in 1984 as one of the first class of students under the tutelage of famed psychic Ingo Swann. Paul said that there were no “psychic tests” used for choosing who would be tapped for training, and candidates were chosen for their scores on tests that included questions about their artistic interests and talent. The idea being that a developed right brain/ creative mind would be more apt to possess the characteristics needed. Smith recalled that the US Military was worried that the Soviet Union had spent about $220 million on psychic research before the Americans had even started, and that this was the impetus for Star Gate. The U.S. ended up investing only $25 million over 23 years.

We spoke about the history of Swann’s development of the program from the beginning, and how he “mixed art and science” in his techniques. Smith pointed out that the human mind is very fond of making sense of incomplete input and that the training “gives the left brain something to do that it’s good at,” namely categorizing and logging input and letting the right brain concentrate on receiving sensory impressions and shapes and forms.

We also discussed the history of the RV program and some of the personalities involved, such as Lyn Buchanan, Joe McMoneagle, Ed Dames, and a little-known early RV recruit named Tom McNear, whom Swann called his “best ever student.”

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Photo: Smith asks a question at the Archives Of The Impossible Conference on 3/5/22.

Outro music: “Sacrifice of a Hero” by Paladine.

The interviews so far for our card project have concentrated on the Ufology” part of the process and philosophy of creating these images. In this interview, our resident tarot and occult expert and team member Susan Demeter joined Miguel Romero and I to discuss the symbology behind the artwork and how we are adapting the standard Rider-Waite-Smith deck to tell the story of Ufology and the phenomenon that it studies. We took particular time with the evolution of the “Strength” card, featuring researcher Anne Druffel, and why we chose the symbols for Key 8.

The Kickstarter campaign closes on November 30, so if you have been hesitating to join us, have a look and help out if you want to be one of the few who receive the first 22 cards and a discount on the rest of the deck when it is complete.

We will soon return you to our irregularly scheduled program!

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Joined by my friends Miguel Romero, Joshua Cutchin, Susan Demeter, and David Metcalfe, we met periodically and strategized, debated, and sought out history and sources of information, archetypes, and concepts to make these cards a reality.

In this program, David, Josh, Miguel and I discuss the genesis of the project and the ideas behind it. The program was recorded barely 3 hours after we launched the Kickstarter campaign on October 31st.

Please help us bring the first 22 cards (also known as the major arcana) to life! The 56 minor cards, with more deep dives into the history of the UFO subject, will be available through a separate funding campaign after the first phase completes in about 1 year.

THANK YOU! We are excited to finally share this project with all of you.

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In 2019, I told my friend Miguel Romero about the little-known Mexican parapsychologist Dr. Jacobo Grinberg Zylberbaum, but we could find little about him online, except for a few sensationalized articles in Spanish. This year, a documentary on his life, work, and mysterious disappearance in 1994 at the age of 47 was released. Titled “The Secret of Dr. Grinberg,” it is currently making the rounds of the film festival circuit, seeking a distributor. Miguel wrote a review.

Miguel and I spoke about his work and life and the childhood trauma that shaped him, and as a young man, how he met an English spiritualist who made predictions which “shook him out of his materialism.” Grinberg also attended university in New York and experimented with LSD. He even became a colleague of Carlos Castaneda for awhile. In 1985, he attended a conference in Costa Rica with Jacques Vallee, John Keel, parapsychologist Andrija Puharich, and Spanish ufologist Salvador Freixedo, among others. He was referred to by some who knew him as the “Einstein of consciousness,” and developed a unified field theory of consciousness which he called “Syntergy.” We hope a new appreciation will be kindled and continue to grow for this little-known pioneer.

End music is a cover of “Planet Claire” by Spanish musician Aviador Dro.

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Susan‘s latest book is entitled Cosmic Witch, and we discussed the events, ideas, and research that led to its writing. Susan sees definite connections between parapsychology, ghost hunting, witchcraft and UFOs. Near the end of the program, we also talked about her latest blog post on the strange trans-solar object known as “Omuamua” and the possibility that it was artificial, as proposed by Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb.

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In this interview with Tim Renner and Joshua Cutchin, we talk about the information and revelations in the second (and final) volume of their “Where the Footprints End” project examining the case for a non-biological Bigfoot. Cutchin and Renner contend that there is far too much evidence that the creature is more ethereal than physical. Tim remarked that anomalous occurrences associated with sightings are fairly common, and often include UFOs, strange lights, and parapsychological phenomena, and which have been largely ignored by mainstream researchers, a term he has dubbed “weirdwashing.” This, both authors agree, is an apparent attempt to make the subject “respectable” and accepted by mainstream science.

Like UFO cases, Bigfoot sightings and encounters often vary in description between different witnesses. Josh pointed out that the image of the creature has changed in the last century, from more of a “wild man” (i.e. a human who lives outside the bounds of civilization) to a more savage portrayal since the mid-20th century, and this actually the opposite of what might be expected. We also talked about some of the stranger aspects Bigfoot/ human interaction such as curious (and often disturbing) reports of apparent mimicry of human speech and phases, the construction of glyphs made from sticks, structures which seem to serve no apparent purpose, and reports of UFOs sighted in the vicinity of Bigfoot activity, the instances of which Tim characterized as being “so many it’s ridiculous.”

The song at the end of the program is “Witch Tree Prophetess” By Tim Renner’s band Stonebreath.

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In Where the Footprints End, they have gathered case after documented case of paranormal events associated with Bigfoot sightings, beginning with a dramatic incident  from 1973 where the creatures (TWO of them) were observed in close proximity to a large, lighted object that left a glowing circle on the ground and apparently gave one witness a vision of the end of the world.

We spoke on this case and many others where the idea of the phenomenon as simply an elusive animal is called into serious question. Based on their research, Renner and Cutchin believe parallels with hauntings and poltergeists are inescapable, as well as connections to the world of the dead. We also discussed the strange explanations given for cases of Bigfoot tracks that apparently stop suddenly in mid-stride (hence the name of the book.) Fascinating conversation that is sure to make you excited, upset, or both.

The end theme is by Tim Renner’s band Stone Breath.

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Dr. Finley joined me to discuss this episode and the tributaries of personalities and events that led to it, and how it has affected the history of the Nation of Islam ever since. We traced the origins of the African American experience that led to this belief system, and his claim that “you cannot make sense of the NOI without looking at it as a UFO religion.” Finley believes that his study “says something about who we are as a people” and that the very act of marginalizing the subject (especially among his fellow academicians) was what drew him to it in the first place.

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Day says that unnamed officials later visited him on his property and declared that he was “incredibly important in what’s about to happen,” implying some sort of scenario where UFOs and whatever operates them would become more well-known and accepted. Day makes no comment as to what these might be. He also reports some possible psychic effects from the incident.

We ended with an extended discussion of his UAP Expedition project, where Day and others such as physicist Kevin Knuth, entrepreneur Deep Prasad, and MIT scientist Rizwan Virk will attempt to attract and record any UFO activity they are able to capture in the area of the original sightings. We had a lot of tech problems for the first 1/3rd of the interview. I have inserted tones inserted at these points in the recording. Thanks to Dave Altman for arranging this interview.

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We talked about the release of her photography book Séance, which examines the history, issues, and impact of the Spiritualist movement, birthed in the 19th century and which survives to this day. There are literate and informative essays throughout, illustrated with rare and sometimes quite beautiful images and photographs from the history of Spiritualism and related areas of parapsychology, as well as her own stunning images of séances, psychic readings, and the objects associated with them.

We discussed her introduction to the world of the séance, and her eventual evolution into what she calls a “diplomat of spiritualism.” She also mentioned that some people (particularly urban sophisticates and some in the art world) seem to be interested in the paranormal, “but if you make it too real for them, they turn off.” She also gave us a fascinating insight into the phenomenon known as “ectoplasm,” and reports of the substance smelling like bodily fluids.

One of Shannon’s most interesting insights were her comparisons of photography and Spiritualism: “Through their dance with each other, [they] exposed each other’s limitations. We learned about photography’s complicated relationship with truth, and we learned about Spiritualism’s subjective truth.”

Purchase from the publisher.
Purchase from the U.S. distributor.

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In 2018, he released “Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon,” a study of evolutionary trends which may lead humans to eventually appear like what we now describe as the popular concept of “aliens,” which is known as neoteny (“the slowing or delaying of body development, compared to non-human primates, resulting in features such as a large head, a flat face, and relatively short arms.”)

The other main premise of his book is that if we eventually begin to look like aliens, there is the possibility that we may be returning from our own evolutionary future and appear as what we know as UFOs and their occupants. We discussed the theoretical possibility that backwards time travel is possible. Masters maintained that the events of the past half century may be very interesting to anyone traveling from the future because of all the rapid changes which have occurred.

Masters also believes that the embargo on UFO discussion may be “just about to pop” and that academics will “be their own disclosure.”

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We recalled a possible near robbery which we experienced while on a canal touring the infamous “Island of the Dolls,” and the ignorant bliss that was present in the country at the time with regard to the growing pandemic. Miguel suggested that we should “embrace living in a state of eternal surrealism.” He summed up his country as “a place where the fantastic goes hand in hand with daily life.”

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A couple of years ago, Whitley said he asked the Visitors to show themselves to more people, and that this book was their eventual answer. He said that they “communicate completely differently than us” without “an evolved language.” Strieber’s experiences led him to conclude that they lead an existence that is nearly unfathomable to us, but is frighteningly described as “like being in an empty house where nothing important or significant can ever happen, and you can’t get out,” and that this is why they need our thoughts and sensations of living in a physical world. This, he concludes, is why they seek the “Communion” described in his very first book on the subject. He also recounted his experience of an apparent implanted object in his ear and how he receives communication through it.

We ended with his wish that more scientific and academic people become aware of and engaged with the subject and the Visitors, and how this may already be happening.

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Susan

My two favorite quotes from the interview will give some idea of why it was so enjoyable and interesting:

Massimo: “Humanity doesn’t need priests; it needs quantum leaps.”

Susan: “I want to provoke, invoke, and eventually measure the phenomena.”

Image: Susan doodled this figure during the interview.

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I’ll admit that I was not impressed with Deep Prasad when he burst on the UFO scene earlier this year. On Thanksgiving Day (in the U.S.) he tweeted a narrative about a very strange, vivid daytime experience he had with apparent non-human entities on February 1st. At that point, I realized his quick conversion from a quantum computing entrepreneur to UFO player was due to this dramatic life-changing experience. Deep had already agreed to an interview over a week before this tweet was posted.

Our talk ranged from an explanation of the theories and applications of quantum computing (which are being pioneered by his company ReactiveQ), his feeling that the so-called “meta-materials” being touted around the internet as pieces of crashed UFOs may not be provable or useful, at least two other strange apparent “contact” episodes he has experienced, and the ideas behind the upcoming UAP Pattern Detection Expedition, which will attempt to attract and record evidence of UFO activity off the coast of Southern California in the same area as the famous Nimitz naval encounters of 2004.

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We moved on to Charles Edward Hinton and his elaborate system of cubes which he said would help anyone realize hidden truths about higher dimensions. We examined the late 19th century astrophysicist Karl Fredrich Zollner and his clash with other scientists regarding his belief that he had found a system of laws that reconciled science and spirituality and who also enthusiastically conducted seances. Chris also delved into the visual arts with Russian avant-garde painter and philosopher Kasmir Malevich as well as iconic author JRR Tolkien, who belived his dreams contained hidden truths regarding his Christian faith.

We ended with the advent of television and how it was regarded as an almost magical device when it was introduced and the observation that many scientists and science writers still use mystical ideas and language when writing for a popular audience, and conversely, how those involved in matters of spirit and faith routinely borrow from the language of science.

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1 – Lonesome Wyatt and the Holy Spooks – Halloween Is Here (2013)
2 – Borrah Minevitch And His Harmonica Rascals – Ghost Walk (1933)
3 – Jack Turner – Nightmare (1955)
4 – The Zanies – Russian Roulette (1962)
5 – Merv Griffin – House of Horrors (1962)
6 – Bob McFadden – Transylvania Polka (1960)
7 – Gong – Witch’s Song/ I Am Your Pussy (1973)
8 – Prince Buster – Hard Man fe Dead (1967)
9 – C.W. McCall – Night Rider (1975)
10 – Sonny Richard’s “Panics” With Cindy & Misty – The Voodoo Walk (1962)
11 – The Bollock Brothers – Drac’s Back (1986)
12 – Casual Three – Invisible Thing (1968)
13 – Thurl Ravenscroft – Grim Grinning Ghosts (1969)
14 – Ross Brunetti – Three Witches (2006)
15 – Jack Blanchard & Misty Morgan – The Voice (1972)
16 – The Holly Twins – Okeefenokee (1962)
17 – Steve King and the Echelons – Satan is Her Name (1962)
18 – Frenchy – Ribcage Mambo (1998)
19 – David Byrne – Horses (The Ghost Song) (1999)
20 – A dramatic reading by Courtney of “Warren Zevon’s ‘Werewolves of London’” by James Joyce by Anthony Sams
21 – Spike Jones – Two Heads (1959)
23 – The Kirby Stone Four – Raven (1957)
24 – Buddy Morrow and His Orchestra – The Raven (1960)
25 – Lord Buckley – The Raven (1956)
26 – Stonewall Jackson – Never More Quote The Raven (1970)
27 – Alan Parsons – The Raven (1976)
28 – Electric Frankenstein – Coolest Little Monster (1995)

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In contrast with most UFO films and documentaries which treat the sighting or encounter as the main subject, Stivelman decided to concentrate on the experience of the witness and how his life was turned inside out. Pérez, who described his encounter as “neither beautiful nor ugly,” was ostracized from his family and community as a result of his experience. He experienced nightmares regularly and retreated to a remote farm to live alone with his issues.

In our interview (Miguel Romero joined me as co-host) Stivelman describes what happened to Pérez, with many glimpses of issues that were either too complicated or left out of the film in the interest of telling the story or for privacy concerns at the time. What emerges is a story of someone who was unwillingly transformed into a man with gifts normally associated with a shamanic individual. Stivelman (along with Jacques Vallée, who appears prominently in the film, and who investigated the case in 1980) spoke at length with Pérez, letting him tell his story in his way. What emerged was essentially interpreted as an initiatory experience by the indigenous Guaraní people of Argentina and Peru, whom Stivelman contacted and arranged for Pérez to visit. The encounter provided him with a perspective from his ancestral roots and transformed him into a person who is more at peace with his sighting and who he has become.

An in depth review by David Metcalfe.

And another by RPJ/ Miguel.

Watch/ order the film.

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Anyone who listens to this show knows the work of Whitley Strieber. His 1987 book Communion was a watershed document that made millions aware of the phenomenon of UFO abductions. It defined and codified the experiences for thousands of people, many of whom wrote to Strieber and his late wife Anne with their own stories. His influence can truly be described as “iconic.” To me, he is the best currently active artist dealing with this subject.

In this conversation, we discussed the beginnings of his experiences, indications of what came before, and the deep influence of his wife in framing and presenting his story. We also delved into the enigma of materials supposedly taken from UFO crashes, the brain physiology of abductees, how Anne has apparently communicated with him since her death, and the times that author William S. Burroughs visited Strieber’s famous cabin looking to make contact with the Visitors.

Commenting on the events of his life, Strieber says he has come to believe that “what we see here is another level of human beings who are in control of souls.” His next book is entitled A New World.

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Dr. Jeffrey J. Kripal holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University. He is also the Associate Director of the Center for Theory and Research at the Esalen Institute. He has authored nine books on religion, popular culture and the paranormal, Including Kali’s Child, Authors of the Impossible, Mutants and Mystics, The Super Natural: A New Vision of the Unexplained (with Whitley Strieber), and most recently, The Flip: Epiphanies of Mind and the Future of Knowledge.

Kripal is currently at the forefront of a revolution in the conversation between the sciences and the humanities. These two modalities of human knowledge are in need of reconciliation, since, as Kripal says in this interview, “a phenomena that can’t be studied without the scientific method does not mean it can’t be studied.” Dr. Kripal also described his personal crucible which set him on a path to understanding and eventually to the study of religion. An early spiritual crisis and revelations about his Catholic background and fellow students at a seminary launched him into a search for meaning.

For too long, Kripal believes, the mechanism of the paranormal (i.e. causes, theories, and hard data collection) have taken center stage in our quest for answers. He sees the experience of the witness as a key to finding the bridge between science and spirit. We discussed the need for a study of the meaning of these narratives and how they change the witness or experiencer.

This was a very enjoyable interview and a great way to return from the Radio Misterioso hiatus. Enjoy!

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On February 18 of 2018, I recorded an interview with Friedman in an unused room at the International UFO Congress. In this conversation, he recalled his childhood and love of the Dodgers and Jackie Robinson, and his college and early career as a nuclear physicist for a variety of aerospace companies. He even described a job for McDonnell Douglas which he said assigned him to “figure out how flying saucers worked” but was unfortunately cancelled for budgetary reasons.

Friedman explained his philosophy that “technological progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way,” and ended the interview with his observation that since (as he believed) extraterrestrial civilizations have been able to survive any growing pains to reach us, this strengthened his hope that the human race can do the same.

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Dr. Kevin Knuth is an Associate Professor in the Department of Physics at the University at Albany. He is a former NASA research scientist having worked for four years at Ames Research Center in the Intelligent Systems Division designing artificial intelligence algorithms for astrophysical data analysis.

On March 19th Dr. Knuth gave a presentation at the first Anomalous Aerospace Phenomena Conference in Huntsville Alabama, sponsored by the Scientific Coalition for Ufology. I was there for the talk and knew immediately that he had to be on the show. Knuth’s paper, “Constraints on Societies Engaged in Relativistic Interstellar Travel,” used current relativistic theory to examine the issues faced by a race if they achieve near-light-speed travel.

Chart from Knuth’s lecture.

For anyone who can achieve this level of technology, Knuth says that many possibilities open up: At speeds approaching light, one could travel halfway across the galaxy in just about 110 days of experienced time on a ship, although, according to general relativity, the time experienced to those standing still would be so great that their civilization would have been dead for many thousands of years when upon return.

Knuth points out that, if a civilization became nomadic spacefarers, they would essentially live for millions of years in galactic time, but experience a normal lifespan of 60-70 years on their ships. We spoke about the implications of this scenario for the UFO subject. We also delved into the changing attitude of science toward UFOs and related subjects, and how this has changed with new discoveries about exoplanets and scientists who are beginning to look at data more than entrenched beliefs in a search for greater understanding.

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Two weeks ago, I attended the very first Scientific Coalition for Ufology (SCU) conference in Huntsville, AL, just outside the gates of the historic Redstone Arsenal, one of the birthplaces of NASA. The SCU was formed in part to address the lack of sober, analytical methods in the civilian study of the UFO phenomenon.

The conference featured presenters such as Dr. Travis Taylor, who examined the possibility of an extraterrestrial invasion and how humans could react, Dr. Kevin Knuth on the possibilities of sub-light space travel, and detailed reports from the SCU on two recent famous cases (a video of an apparent anomalous object recorded by a Customs and Border Patrol aircraft in 2013, and the Nimitz carrier group incident from 2004.) The keynote was given by Luis Elizondo of the To The Stars Academy. We talked about these presentations and the mission of the SCU, which is gaining traction in the field.

One of the things that Rich said gave me hope: he stated that the SCU would remain small and would encourage cooperation from other small groups to work on differing aspects of the subject. This is all in an effort to lift the stigma that surrounds it and to get “serious people to take the subject seriously,” as one UFO researcher famously said.

Photo: Hoffman speaks at the conference.

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I have known Paul Kimball and his brother for over a decade. In that time, I have worked with both of these talented guys on a few projects. The most popular of the programs from their production company is the ghost hunting series Haunted, which until recently, was airing exclusively in Eastern Canada. It has recently become available on Vimeo to the rest of the world.

The show is just the kind of ghost investigation program that I like: non-sensationalistic, thoughtful, and most importantly, the participants have fun while they engage in a serious examination of the locations, stories, and events that they encounter, some of which are definitely creepy.

Jim Kimball is the producer and technical director of Haunted, and has assumed an increasing role in front of the camera as well (#morejim.) He and his brother joined me to talk about their methodology, the logistics of producing a paranormal television series, as well as some of the strangest and most disturbing things they have encountered during production and sometimes afterwards, including the apparent temporary possession of cast member Holly Stevens and a continuing string of synchronicities.

Episodes available here.

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Eric Wargo has written perhaps one of the most important popular science books in the last year. Time Loops proposes that future events can affect the past, and provides detailed descriptions of experimental findings that suggest (some would take it a step further and say “prove”) that this concept, called “retrocausality,” is poised to make over physics and other sciences with its implications.

Wargo proposes that dreams are the most basic way that we can experience a peek into the future, and we discussed the dreams and writings of Sigmund Freud as an early, well-documented and prime example of precognition, even though Wargo points out that Freud did not dare suggest that his (and his patients’) dreams foretold the future. When people apparently see events to come (such as the Titanic disaster and 9-11) in startling detail, Wargo says that there is ample evidence to suggest that what is experienced is not a sort of mental travel to the future, but a presentiment of our reaction when we learn about the event (such as reading or hearing about it in the news.)

Wargo also suggested that precognition could be a tool that the human brain has evolved as a defense/ survival mechanism. There were many exciting and indeed controversial issues raised (as indeed they are in his book.) We may be looking at one aspect of a shift in how science is conducted, and that may be the most exciting thing of all. As Wargo said, “anomalies are building up, and that’s when paradigm shifts occur.”

His blog is called The Nightshirt. Check it out.

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We spoke about how the TTSA has, as Tim said, “sucked all the air out of ufology” with their announcements and media blitz. This seemed to be the “year of the UFO” as we had not one, but THREE pilot sightings in the news. Tim asked about aircraft and piloting issues as well as drones, all of which I can comment about with some authority, and how accurate the news coverage might have been.

Three towns in the U.S. have declared Bigfoot their official animal or mascot. We spoke on the rise of the subject in the public consciousness. Speaking of animals, there was a glut of raccoon stories this year. We mused that the masked bandits may take the place of the owl in UFO folklore.

Finally, we spoke of those who have left us in the past year, such as Art Bell, Robert O. Dean, and John Anthony West, all of whom I have had some personal interaction with over the years. At the end of the show, Tim predicted that 2019 will be the “year of the UFO.”

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1 – Billy May – “Rudolph, The Red-Nosed Reindeer Mambo”
2 – Franklin McCormack – “I like Christmas”
3 – Pearl Bailey – “Five Pound Box of Money”
4 – Johnny Cash – “Ringing the Bells for Jim”
5 – Red Sovine – “Billy’s Christmas Wish”
6 – Steve Martin, Paul Simon, and Billy Joel – “Silver Bells”
7 – Augie Rios – “Donde Está Santa Claus?”
8 – Cheech Marin – “Santa Claus and his Old Lady” (excerpt)
9 – Tiny Tim – “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus”
10 – Cordell Jackson – “Beboppers’ Christmas”
11 – Patsy Raye & The Beatniks – “Beatnik’s Wish”
12 – Tony Rodelle Larson – “Cool Yule”
13 – The Mushroom Tabernacle Choir – “The 12 Drugs of Christmas”
14 – National Lampoon – “Gift Of The Nazis” Show Promo
15 – Frank Zappa – “Mormon Xmas Dance Report”
16 – Frank Zappa – “Mousie’s First Xmas”
17 – ActionAid Sweden – “Silent Night Goat Edition”
18 – Jackie Beat – “Menstral Krampus”
19 – Worm Quartet – “A Worm Quartet Christmas”
20 – New Order – “Ode to Joy”
21 – Peter Murphy and Tom Waits (impersonated by the band Porn Orchard) – “Christmas Sucks”
22 – Emerald Rose – “Santa Claus is Pagan Too”
23 – David Warin Solomons – “Io! Saturnalia (Hooray, it’s Saturnalia)”
24 – Paul and Storm – “Grandma’s Christmas Dinner”
25 – Guy Llama – “Timmy’s Christmas Bedtime Story”
26 – Fat Daddy Johnson – “Fat Daddy”
27 – Arlo Gurthrie – “Pause for Mr. Clause”
28 – Billy Nayer Show – “Must Be Santa”
29 – A Christmas message from Jack Blanchard read by Courtney
30 – Bounar – “Away in a Manger”
31 – UK Subs – “Hey Santa”

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This time, David decided to posit a premise that we could kick around: “The paranormal is a key to understanding consciousness and cattle mutilations are the key to understanding the paranormal.” We explored the permutations of this idea, and how science is beginning to recognize the role of the observer and the participation of consciousness in maps and conceptions of reality. In a wider sense, the Gaia hypothesis contends that the Earth can be seen as a conscious being, and David proposed that one of the ways that the planet is trying to wake us up to environmental damage is though an “unrecognized natural force” that may be behind the mutilation phenomenon. We also discussed mutilations and other aspects of the paranormal as “memeplexes” and how pervasive ideas begin, mutate, and propagate.

Always fun to kick around radical ideas with a seasoned researcher and deep thinker such as David Perkins, but as he says, don’t worry, because “everything I say is a provisional theory.”

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We spoke about his original deep interest in the UFO issue and how almost all the books he read on the subject were so useless to him that he burned them. He traveled to the Hessdalen Valley in Norway and observed the mysterious lights, discovering that they apparently exhibited complicated and evolving structures (one even assumed a rectangular shape.) He mentioned that some plasma phenomena seem to exhibit elements of conscious control, and that consciousness may be an element of structure in the observable universe. These issues are discussed at length in his (now sadly out of print) book The Hyperspace of Consciousness.

Dr. Teodorani is also interested in visionary states and how symbols and experiences from this realm seem to have encoded information that can be useful in practical ways. We spoke about this and ended with a discussion of flight and his music compositions. Teodorani is also an accomplished electronic musician who goes by the name of “Totemtag.”

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We also went more into depth on the story of John Lear and his sudden appearance on the UFO scene in the mid 1980s, and his immediate impact on research. Chris pointed out his history with the CIA and their covert operations under cover of “Air America” during the Vietnam era in Laos and other countries.

Finally, we talked about his longstanding and detailed research into the famous Socorro incident as well as how some of these threads that reach back to the 1980s and ’90s can be found in the present activities of To The Stars Academy and those associated with it.

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1 – !Action Pact! – Gothic Party Time – (1983)
2 – American Quartet – Skeleton Rag – (1911)
3 – Leslie Sarony – Ain’t it Grand to be Blooming Well Dead (1932)
4 – Phil Harris – The Thing (1950)
5 – Salty Holmes – The Ghost Song (1954)
6 – Griz Green – Jam At the Mortuary (ca.1958-60)
7 – The Revels – Dead Man’s Stroll (1959)
8 – Screamin’ Jay Hawkins – There’s Something Wrong With You (1958)
9 – The Vampires – Natasha (from LP “At The Monster’s Ball”) (1964)
10 – Sheldon Allman – Children’s Day at the Morgue (1961)
11 – The Denims – The Ghost In Your House Is Me (1966)
12 – Jim Friss and the Valiants – Serpents and Spiders (ca. 1963)
13 – Boomer & Travis – Foul Owl On The Prowl (1967)
14 – Hans Conried and Alice Pearce – Mostly Ghostly (from LP “Monster Rally”) (1959)
15 – King Horror – Frankenstein (1970)
16 – Desmond Dekker – Dracula (1964)
17 – Bobby Bare – Marie Laveau (1974)
18 – Albert DeSalvo/ Dick Levitan – Strangler in the Night (1967)
19 – Audience reactions to seeing “The Exorcist” (1973)
20 – Tommy Scott & Scotty Lee – Exorcism (1975)
21 – Annelise Michel – Sounds of an actual exorcism (1976)
22 – Tili Tili Bom (Russian lullaby) (2007?)
23 – Excerpts from “The Bad Seed” (1956)
24 – The Fibonaccis – Leroy (1987)
25 – Vincent Price – How To Cook A Small Boy (cut up re-edit) (ca. 1990s)
26 – The Centimeters – I Want A Dead One (1999)
27 – Beanpole – Pumpkin Pickin’ Time (2018)
28 – The Shaggs – It’s Halloween (1969)

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He was in town to give a lecture on ultralight backpacking (which was knows enough about to have written an authoritative book.) For the first 11 minutes, we actually talked about that subject as well as how to construct in igloo before getting into the subjects at hand. We opened with a few little-known facts about Kenneth Arnold (who had a pet owl and was a huge fan of Charles Fort, and experienced mysterious orbs floating around his home.)

He told me the little known issue that many, if not all abductees have a specific number that is special to them, and that is apparently “assigned” during their experiences. We talked about problems with abduction research, of which I am a little more critical than Mike, but then I am not in the middle of that world, and it was valuable to hear his perspective. Our mutual friend, the late Mac Tonnies, suggested that Mike visit as many researchers as possible and see how they differed in their approaches. Among people with unexplained experiences, this is rare.

Mike also discussed his own years of anguish while he tried to figure out what was happening to him, and how the ultimate answer to the enigma may simply be the reconciliation of the personal experience, even if there is no answer to be found for UFO researchers. Mike’s newest book is Stories From The Messengers.

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A few months ago, Miguel Romero (aka “Red Pill Junkie”) wrote to tell me about Charles, and his story of “psychic questing,” which is a concept that is virtually unknown outside of the UK. The basic story is that from the late 1970s to sometime in the mid-to-late 1990s, small, private groups in Britain began meeting to use seances, ouija boards, and other methods in order to locate hidden objects of apparent historical importance, such as swords, precious stones, and documents. The practice is intimately connected with the rich history of English magic and folklore.

Miguel served as co-interviewer as Charles described his interest in UFOs and other out-there subjects from an early age, including apparent communications with non-humans by radio (a’la contactee George Hunt Williamson.) In the early 1990s, he formed a group with a few friends and began their own questing sessions, eventually establishing contact with an apparent entity calling itself “Addie,” who self-described as a young teenage girl of the Victorian era.

Addie began “apporting” objects to the group which responded to the whims of questions from different members, such as photos, books, divination cards, and even precious stones. When I asked Charles early on if there was any chance of fraud, he said “I didn’t see you there,” which was his way of saying “From outside the confines of the group, of course.” We discussed these issues and the fact that hoaxing or faking is an intimate part of much of these phenomena, but does not explain all of it, a concept that is admittedly difficult for some to accept.

I choose to listen without making sharp judgments. Things just seem more interesting that way, and whatever your beliefs, we hope you find Charles’ story worth hearing.

Image above: A Egyptian divination card that Charles says was apported during one of their sessions with “Addie,” and which recently formed the nexus of a personal synchronicity.

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Jeremy Corbell’s upcoming film based on George Knapp’s groundbreaking book of the same name was the subject of our interview for this edition of Radio Misterioso. The film has generated a great deal of buzz because of the controversial subject.

We went into depth about the history of the property known as “Skinwalker Ranch” and the various owners, incidents, research and high strangeness that have been swirling around the location since the early 1990s. The takeaway from the years of research conducted at the site seems to indicate that there is no one theory or mechanism that can account for all the strange activity observed. From cattle mutilations, eerie lights, shadowy figures, and paraphysical animals, to events and activities that seemed to trigger the phenomena, Corbell and Knapp report that no data-driven report or columns of numbers could solve the puzzle.

My guests also took time to answer some of the rumors that they say have gotten out of hand, such as stories of human experimentation and the idea that anything physical was ever found that could be examined in a laboratory. We discussed the little-known debate between the scientists who were originally assigned to do the first systematic research at the property, and their regrets about roads not taken. We also spoke about the history of government-sponsored research in the area, as well as the new owner of the property and his efforts to continue the work started by former owner Robert Bigelow.

I believe that you will hear things in this interview that have not been discussed elsewhere or previously.

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Tracklist:

Clara Rockmore “The Swan” (Theremin)
Grace Chang – The Habanera from Carmen (L’amour est un oiseau rebelle)
Maria Callas – Habanera from Carmen (excerpt)
Øystein Baadsvik – “Fnugg for Solo Tuba”
Sam Space and the Cadettes – “Take Me to Your Leader Cha Cha”
Jesse and the G-Runs – “Lady Madonna”
Kiyoko Itoh & The Happenings Four – “Lady Madonna”
Michyo Azusa – “Please Please Me”
MC Hawking – “E=MC Hawking”
Brute Force – “Tapeworm of Love”
Brute Force – “The King of Fuh”
Colin Hodgkinson – Kick Ass Bass solo
Bobby Zehm – “Sitar Picking’ Man
The Vandals – “Play That Country Tuba Cowboy”
Paul Anka – “Smells Like Teen Spirit

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Chris has seen the infamous film from controversial UFO researcher Ray Stanford which is claimed to depict one of the clearest images ever captured of an unidentified flying object, and says that whatever it was bears a close resemblance to what a man named Paul Bennewitz was filming at Kirtland Air Force Base beginning in 1979. The Bennewitz story is the main subject of my 2006 book Project Beta. When there is new or overlooked information on the story, I am interested.

Chris says that tbe object in Stanford’s film closely resembles the work of scientist Leik Myrabo and his work in laser propulsion research, and says that Stanford received a visit from Myrabo, who looked at his evidence with interest before starting his project.

We also discussed the timeline of events in the Bennewitz story and how the picture presented in my book may need to be slightly revised based on Lambright’s findings as reported in his book X Descending. Chris is also one of the few people I have met who actually knew and spoke to Bennewitz . He also describes a strange interaction with infamous UFO researcher/ personality John Lear.

Some of the scientists Lambright has uncovered in his research have connections to recent developments in such projects as To The Stars. The interview will be continued!

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Joshua Cutchin‘s new book is his best yet, and deeply examines the ancient folklore surrounding children who are supposedly taken from their homes and parents by denizens of the “fairy realm.” Don’t make the mistake that he believes in a literal interpretation. He makes this clear in the first interview he gave for the book.

Throughout the interview, one of the themes (as in the book) is that there are very definite parallels between this phenomenon and the “hybrid” lore of UFO abduction literature. These comparisons have of course been made before, but Cutchin’s book also points out the similarities between fairy lore and Bigfoot encounters, as well as the recent focus on wilderness disappearances (think Missing 411.)

We spoke about the “changeling” lore, which holds that children are taken and replaced with a fairy child, which appears weak, sickly, or otherwise “strange” to the rest of the family. Josh pointed out that this tradition was often used as an excuse to ostracize those who were deemed strange or otherwise useless to the community, all too often resulting in cases of infanticide.

He hastens to add, however, that we “do the phenomenon a disservice” by reducing it to mundane explanations. The true nature of this tradition can be best approached by detailed and careful study, such as can be found in Cutchin’s new work, Thieves In The Night: A Brief History of Supernatural Child Abductions.

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At first, he thought it was some government program, because of all the helicopters that kept turning up in reports. He has never really considered the UFO/ alien explanation, since the facts he uncovered proved it was too narrow. During the program, we discussed  the concept of a “memeplex,” which is a group of ideas and beliefs that support and play off each other, and which can increase our understanding of how the problem has been compounded by weak explanations and an eagerness to reach a conclusion.

Perkins also considers the mutilation mystery as an example of an “ideoplastic” problem as he believes that it responds to expectations, culture, and researcher bias. He believes an  important path towards understanding can be achieved by thinking of it as a manifestation of “unrecognized forces of nature,” which combine in a way that indicates some sort of directed, conscious purpose that is as yet inscrutable to humans. He compares it to the Gaia hypothesis, in a way that makes Nature itself an active participant, as if we are being sent an undeniable message about how we treat and use domestic animals, and our complicity in the degradation of the environment.

We also talked about how the study of animal mutilations has driven many researchers off the deep end or forced them out of the field altogether, although Perkins concludes that his experience has been “one of the greatest educational experiences I could ever imagine.”

David contributed one of his own musical compositions for the outro music, recorded only two days before our interview, which took place on his backyard patio in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Photo: Perkins struggles with the ancient concept of a pay phone on a Santa Fe street corner.

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He announced his official departure from the Paracast program, which he has co-hosted for almost 10 years, as well as “Out There,” his new podcasting and television venture, and his San Luis Valley Camera Project, which will consist of an automated system to record and document unusual lights and other objects in a world-famous hotspot for aerial phenomena.

Chris announced that he has also received an agreement with researcher Ray Stanford to reveal his technical UFO data, ending years of speculation about the nature of the evidence that Stanford has collected, and if he would ever share it publicly.

A short, but rich conversation. Enjoy!

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We delved into the period of the later 1980s and early 1990s, which Aaron calls the beginning of the “endless commercialization” of ufology. How does information get released by those (supposedly) in the know and how is it consumed, how is it used, and what myths are created and evolved? Along these lines, we recalled the early days of the Art Bell program and how that period laid a lot of the groundwork for the culture as we see it today.

Aaron does not recall ever having any sort of sighting of anything unidentified, but he mentioned that his sister remembers looking out of the window when she was four years old and seeing what looked like a big-headed entity, which bothers him a bit! We mulled over why the extraterrestrial hypothesis is popular and has been since the beginning of the modern era.

Finally, we discussed the intersection between the cultures of conspiracy and UFOs. Takeaway quote from Aaron: “Bad conspiracy writing answers every question.” I would argue that goes for Saucer writing as well.

Above: Aaron during the 2018 Esotericon in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

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The experiences and pictures she was getting surprised Taggart and blurred the lines between documentation, objectivity, and art. Unexpected lights, images, and “mistakes” in her photos called into question whether she was really just a chronicler of the rituals or was beginning to act as a participant and partner. For those used to photography as a form of pure representation, this interview may be either a revelation or an exercise in frustration. As Shannon said during the interview, “photography is a trickster medium.”

Before the show, Shannon described her frustration with explaining her attitude towards the paranormal and encapsulated a perfect approach with the phrase “I take this seriously, but not literally.” This should be a commandment to those who pursue an understanding of the unexplained.

We discussed the history and amazingly parallel development of photography and spiritualism: the first public seances were held less than a mile from the first Kodak facility in New York state within a few years of each other. Taggart also described her working method and how it allows for random events and results to enter the process – which may allow some effects that are meaningful to the subjects of her work. She recently attended a seminar which championed a return to the original methods of spirit photography, even the use of vintage equipment and rituals. She also described one Spiritualist who is using a movement tracker from an X-Box to achieve better results. She also described ectoplasm and her attempts to document this controversial phenomenon.

Finally, we discussed the crossover between her world and UFO study, and how a creative approach may be used in concert with a scientific mindset to explore new areas of research.

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In a wide-ranging talk, we discussed the trickster archetype, how it addresses inequality in cultures, and how excluded elements (such as the LGBT community) are often imbued with this influence. George tells us about his years of research in parapsychology and the history of such groups over the last century. He also talked about his friendship with author John Keel and his New York Fortean Society. He discussed the world of stage magic and how many magicians are not doctrinaire skeptics, and actually endorse some forms of psychic phenomena as currently unexplained. We also touched on how UFO study ignores the trickster at its peril.

There is so much more to unpack in this free-ranging and educational conversation from one of the true originals in the field.

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We wandered all over the map here, from possible reasons for UFO sighting “flaps,” the connections to other strange phenomena, how a close encounter changes the witness, and how Ufology might be able to connect the left and right brains with new methods of research. With this in mind, we also discussed what a really good 21st century UFO conference should look like.

We also talked about apport phenomena and his design for the cover of the upcoming contactee encyclopedia A Is For Adamski. Miguel also has a blog and his wonderful art for sale on t-shirts.

Above: One of RPJ’s t-shirt designs.

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We discussed the differences between male and female investigators, and how witnesses react to both. We also brought up the recent controversy over the Chicago mothman sightings and how investigators occasionally seem to enjoy fighting with each other more than the actual research they are supposedly doing. We also talked about her work with an abductee research group (FREE) and how the encounters seem to almost always transform the consciousness of the witness. We delved into the shadow people phenomenon and issues with ouija boards (which is the subject of at least two of her books) and the techniques used in scrying. There was some light debate and discussion on the extraterrestrial hypothesis, and Guiley’s idea that observed alien entities are most likely inter-dimensional beings.

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I have been following the work of Dr. Dean Radin for over 20 years. In that time, I have been privileged to interview him twice. His new book Real Magic will be released just after this show posts and for me, it is his best to date. Real Magic looks at the history of magic in western thought and practice, and suggests that we can legitimately examine issues and concepts formerly considered forbidden by science, such as manifesting thoughts, fulfilling wishes, and considering the relationship of consciousness to what we know as the physical world.

Radin almost became a concert violinist, but luckily for some of us, he decided to go into the sciences. We spoke about this artistic background and how it affects his research. As his career began to track into the study of parapsychology, Radin realized that there was (and still is) a great deal of prejudice in the academic and scientific communities surrounding the study of psychic phenomena and especially “magic,” although he senses that this is slowly changing. As he points out in the interview, if a system of inquiry does not explain everything in its world, then it is wrong or needs revision.

We discussed what might happen if magical effects were commonplace (he thinks it could  be more dangerous than the atomic bomb) and the idea that any other intelligence in the universe may be waiting for us to make some sort of telepathic contact before communicating with us at all. Radin also answered the question of “if we can control reality, why can’t I manifest gold and diamonds?” He also presented a model of the universe based on information and consciousness, and how to treat an individual who experiences psi functioning firsthand, and has their worldview turned upside down.

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I asked Preston why he believes the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis is the best theory for UFO origins, and he made a good case for his opinion, although we both agreed that no one theory explains the vast spectrum of evidence.

Preston has delved into many strange cases where a witness to a UFO also has other paranormal events crop up in their lives, such as haunting and poltergeist phenomena. He also described a very dramatic sighting he had with one repeat witness who seemed to be able to either call up objects or know where they would be beforehand.

This was an enjoyable couple of hours with a veteran, open-minded, boots-on-the-ground researcher. His new book is Undersea UFO Base: An In-Depth Investigation of USOs in the Santa Catalina Channel.

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In the course of research for the book, Nick discovered that things resembling the entity had actually been reported in the area before it was even created. He cited a psychic who, when trying to solve an old murder case, described a tall thin man in a suit carrying a dead child, as well as a group of hunters who reported a sighting of something similar years before the meme took hold. We also discussed the possibility and history of manifested thoughtforms and tulpas, and how the legend may have literally come to life.

In the last 30 minutes, we discussed possible new directions for UFO study and conference presentations that would include many different viewpoints.

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Researcher Peter Robbins is perhaps best known for his book Left At East Gate, which was enveloped in a controversy that led to a painful process that ended in Robbins disowning the work. He has discussed the issues surrounding this extensively elsewhere.

In other news, his 95-year-old father Allan recently wrote his memoirs, which Peter sent to me as a present. After reading it, I knew we would have a great time discussing the book and the span of 20th-century history which it covered. We even took a few minutes to discuss the history of American comedy and other books written by non-famous people about the times in which they lived.

Since we couldn’t avoid it, we also discussed UFOs and Peter’s experiences while attending the UN hearings on the subject in 1978, as well as his interactions with Soviet reporters as they covered the famous Voronezh incident in 1989. Peter is working on a new collection of his extensive writings and has also embarked on a project about the life and possible suspicious death of the first U.S. Secretary of Defense James Forrestal. We also discussed Wilhelm Reich’s book Contact With Space, and the merits and problems with the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

Above: Peter and his dad. (Credit: Elise Skalwold)

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At my insistence, Susan listed some of her favorite writers and thinkers in the field, such as George Hansen and surprisingly enough, Jim Moseley. We ended with a short gerrymander on ancient pagan practices in Italy and how some of the places named in older texts may still be hotspots for paranormal activity and sightings of strange aerial objects.

Photo: Susan models the latest fashion in non-dogmatic strategy for dealing with trolls.

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We examined the role of the researcher and how much they can be embedded with their subjects and still maintain sufficient objectivity, and whether they should. Then we discussed Metcalfe’s feeling that Jung’s philosophy of alchemy is limiting, because it leaves out important physical aspects of the alchemical process. We thought that this might be relevant to recent discussions of UFO “alloys” or artifacts.

David’s phone ran out of juice and we arranged to finish up at a later date. Of course, we went another hour. I asked about his statement he wrote to me that he “had no idea what lay beyond the shining saucer” in terms of an inspiration and catalyst for personal change. He told me about the work of Conan The Barbarian creator Robert E Howard and his claim that he channeled his story material, much like Richard Shaver. We spent much of the last hour on the motivational speaker/ guru Tony Robbins and his intriguing world, and ended with a few minutes on the legendary self-help book Psycho Cybernetics.

In all, a very fun and detailed 3 hours.

Image is original art by Dave.

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As usual, we do not censor, and some of the lyrics are not meant for tender ears.

Harry Nilsson – You’re Breaking My Heart
Peter Cook – Bedazzled
Aaron Neville – Over You
Porter Wagoner – Lonelyville
Louvin Brothers – Knoxville Girl
Shirley Collins – The Oxford Girl
Roger Bailey – Did She Break Your Heart?
Joe Tex – Pneumonia
Gene Goza – These Spurs (Are Made For Ridin’)
Teddy & Darrel – These Boots Are Made for Walking
Hunx and His Punx – You Don’t Like Rock ‘n’ Roll
Roy Clark – Right Or Left At Oak Street
Jake Thackray – On Again
Josephine XV – I’m Happy They Took You Away, Ha-Haa!
Earth Girl Helen Brown – Story Of An Earth Girl
Red Ingle and the Natural Seven – (I Love You) For Seventy Mental Reasons
Bull Moose Jackson – Big Ten Inch
Barnes and Barnes – Pussy Whipped
B.A. Johnston – Everyone You Date After Me Is a Sack of Shit
Nora Keyes – Look At You, You’re Ugly
Betty Davis – Anti Love Song
Singing Sadie – Let’s Call ‘er Lil
Randy Newman – Pants
Ivor Cutler – Beautiful Cosmos

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Skylaire recounted a dramatic early morning UFO sighting at Edwards Air Force Base in 1988 when she and her mother were waiting to see a space shuttle landing. She wanted to talk a little politics and internet freedom (or the lack thereof) and our talk drifted into issues of staying pure in goals as a writer. As usual we covered a lot of topics, and hope you enjoy.

Photo: Skylaire at lunch with John Keel. Yes, I took that one.

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Then we began a recounting of his personal experiences on his vacation/ tour of traditional Irish faerie sites and what it was like to actually visit these legendary places. Josh informed us why he didn’t wear bright colors and brought food offerings at many of the locations. He pointed out the parallel between the history of reports of encounters with “the good people” (as they are sometimes referred to in Ireland) and bigfoot sightings, as well as unsolved disappearances. We also examined the cross-cultural similarities of paranormal “small folk” around the world. Joshua said that some of the most recent and rich reports have been coming from Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada.

(Pencil portrait by show friend and listener “Rei Toei.”)

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Gorightly and I are finishing up a detailed chronicle of UFO contact personalities and cults (entitled A Is For Adamski) which will be released in the next couple of months. It will be a comprehensive overview featuring many previously unpublished and little-seen photos and images. Since Gorightly was in town, we did a “pop-up” show (which are meant to be recorded and posted the same day.)

We started off discussing a little-known and fascinating artist named Paulina Peavy, who said she channeled an alien who helped her with her artwork (see above.) We played a few minutes of her January, 1958 appearance on the Long John Nebel radio show, where she went into a trance and channeled what she said were her spirit guides.

We also recalled the strange case of Karl Hunrath and Wilbur Wilkinson, who disappeared in 1953 after renting an aircraft from the Los Angeles area, after saying they were going to a remote location to meet up with space people. Gorightly then brought up a little-known character named Raymond Broshears, who was on the fringes of both UFO fandom and the JFK assassination, as well as a close associate of contactee Frank Stranges.

We ended with an examination of the 1965 John Reeves case, where the witness claimed that a robot came out of a flying saucer, took pictures of him, and left a paper with strange symbols on it, which was later quickly deciphered by government cryptographers to read: “Planet Mars- Are you coming home soon- We miss you very much- Why did you stay away too long.” The one-to-one relationship of the symbols to the English alphabet was a good clue that source of the message was a little closer to Earth than Reeves claimed.

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In the second 2 hours, we spoke about the hot-and-not conspiracy theories and why they have become so popular and even mainstream. Then, we recapped my trip to speak at Roswell for the 70th anniversary this last year. Tim told us about a possible break in the DB Cooper hijacking case, and we ended with a remembrance of Jim Marrs and other authors and researchers who left us in 2017. At the end of the show, I stumped Tim’s Alexa with a few questions that it was unable to answer.

Enjoy the nearly 4 HOUR show. I have inserted a short “beep” at the break between the two segments.

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Enjoy and happy whatever you have!

Here’s the list:

Root Boy Slim and the Sex Change Band – Christmas at K-Mart
The Count – (All I Want For Christmas Is) My Two Front Teeth
The Residents – Santa Dog
Jeff St Pierre and Phillip Antoniades – Rubber Clause Is Coming To Town
Shittyflute – Frosty The Snowman
Portsmouth Sinfonia – Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy
Art Carney – Santa and the Doodle-Li-Boop
Stan Freberg – The Night Before Christmas
Paddy Roberts – Merry Christmas You Suckers
Homer and Jethro – Nuttin’ For Christmas
Actually Huizenga – Krampus Christmas
Mae West – Merry Christmas Baby
Jingle Cats – White Christmas in Hell (excerpt)
mojochronic – Rudolph (You Don’t Have To Put On The Red Light)
The Christmas Chids – Christmas Helmet
Yogi Yorgesson – Rusty Chevrolet
Lou Monte – Dominick The Italian Christmas Donkey Song
Robert Smiegel – Tingles the Christmas Tension
Heather Noel – Santa Came On A Nuclear Missile
Jack Blanchard – A Weird Little Christmas
GG Allin – The 12 Days of Christmas (Skip if easily offended!)
Tom Lehrer – Hanukkah in Santa Monica
The Monkees – Riu Riu Chiu
Shari Lewis and Lambchop – Some Things For Christmas

Courtney’s youtube holiday music channel is here.

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She has been embedded with a few researchers who believe that they have anomalous  artifacts that can be dissected to reveal secrets that have real-world applications in aeronautical research. This is of course along the same lines as the recent announcement in the New York Times by the members of the To The Stars group. Some of this research dovetails with a recent trip Diana took to the Vatican libraries and Observatory for documents pertaining to the phenomenon of levitating saints.

We spoke about a car trip in New Mexico, where she and a friend were blindfolded so they wouldn’t know where they were going, and then were shown one of these strange artifacts in situ. We also discussed the effect of technology and how it has taken the place of religion for many people, as well as the problem with UFO data mining. Dr. Pasulka also mentions an essay by philosopher Carl Rashcke entitled “UFOs: Ultraterrestrial Agents of Cultural Deconstruction” (which is not online, but I discussed in a post from 2009.)

In the last few minutes of the show. we spoke about the recent release of the newest Star Wars film and how it resonates with her work, as well as with all of us.

Errata: at 11:05 – Dr. Pasulka says “Post-industrial revolution.” She meant “Pre-industrial revolution.”

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Paul and Dillon joined me to talk about their adventures, their techniques, and their journey from interested skeptics to, if not “believers,” at least among those willing to consider that there are things that cannot be explained, only experienced. I shared some of these experiences with them on a paranormal investigation a few months ago, and we talked about some of the things that happened that evening. We also played and discussed one of the most eerie examples of an unexplained audio recording that I have ever heard.

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I had just provided Richard with a copy of the seminal book Morning of the Magicians, and we segued into a short discussion of aspects of alchemy as they relate to the paranormal and UFOs, as suggested in the book. We also talked about the co-creation idea, and his model of how power and influence controls our perceptions. We also spent a long time recalling the work of the late abduction researcher Karla Turner and the strange goings-on around her rural Arkansas home when Richard visited in 1995. He also recalled a UFO sighting he had where a group of lights exhibited the classic “falling leaf” motion.

Note: There were a lot of strange noises picked up by the recorder during this session. This has never happened before. A group of owls made an appearance as well. Make of it what you will!

Best wishes to Richard for a speedy recovery.

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This is because, in Jeff’s opinion and experience, the paranormal thrives in an atmosphere is liminality and chaos, and any serious explorer must meet it on it’s own territory. Jeff warned that anyone who wants to tread into this area must be prepared to lose their jobs, relationships with friends and loved ones, and perhaps their sanity. He was serious about this. Caveat emptor in the strongest terms!

We also talked about the recent Tom DeLonge announcement (which happened the day of our interview), paranoia and perception, and a strange symbol that appeared with no discernible source on a mirror in Jeff’s home, and what famed researcher of “alien writing,” the late Dr. Mario Pazzaglini had to say about it.

Image: Jeff’s amazing design for a Radio Misterioso t-shirt.

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We then launched into a discussion of the most glaring problem in UFO study: giant egos. We agreed that the research and presentation of findings and sharing information should take precedence. We talked about the worth of a truly skeptical viewpoint and how a more inclusive attitude could very well provide a breakthrough. Perhaps the castoffs from the recent MUFON shakeup will surprise us in the near future.

Erica was in Los Angeles recently, and we recalled some of the locations we visited, including the world headquarters of the Aetherius Society. We also looked at the intersection between UFO study and other so-called “paranormal” pursuits. We ended with a list of Erica’s favorite books and researchers. We started and ended the show with strange music at Erica’s request.

Photo: Erica models the amazing “DO NOT ENGAGE” t-shirt.

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Rusty Diamond – Skellykins
Allan Sherman – My Son The Vampire
The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band – Look Out There’s a Monster Coming
Patsy Montana – The Yodeling Ghost
Bob Ridgley – The Way Out Mummy
Fran Allison – Punky Punkin
Micheal Hurley – The Werewolf
Zeke Manners & His Swing Billies – Mr. Ghost Goes To Town
Tiny Tim – People Are Strange
Don Hinson – Riboflavin-Flavored, Non-Carbonated, Polyunsaturated Blood
Vampires Of Dartmoore – Dance of the Vampires
Rod Willis – The Cat
The Surapon Alias Fox – Nang Maew Pee (The Ghost Of Cat)
The Deviants – Billy The Monster
Mick Farren – Bela Lugosi
Jack Blanchard – Dance of the Living Dead Chickens
Kongress – Eyes of the Witness
The Rattles – The Witch
Roky Erikson – Don’t Shake Me Lucifer
Tool – Die Eier Von Satan
Vulgar Deli – In League with Satan
Leslie Fish – Carmen Miranda’s Ghost
The Voluptuous Horror of Karen Black – I Believe in Halloween

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Kenn Thomas

We also took the time to discuss Kenn’s new book Trumpocalypse Now! and his contention that the 45th President has used the idea of conspiracies as one of his tools for popularity. He also believes that the idea that Senator Ted Cruz’ father was connected with Oswald actually makes him a patriot rather than a villian (as Trump has suggested) since Kenn thinks they were trying to infiltrate pro-Castro groups, not join them as supporters.

We visited Marilyn Monroe’s grave and completed the last 5 minutes of the interview there, talking about an article by Nick Redfern concerning what she might have known about UFOs and Area 51.

Photo: Kenn also wanted to visit the grave of actor William Frawley, so I took him there.

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We delved into the merits of the criticisms of the book and how our colleague Micah Hanks has called for renewed attention to altered states of consciousness and how this is important to the study of anomalistic experiences. We also talked about the difference between an unexpected, sudden experience and one that might be considered an “altered state.”

Continuing the witness-centered theme, we debated the merits of the internal vs. the external narrative of a weird encounter and how language and telling the story changes the initial experience. I was challenged to defend my co-creation hypothesis and how that might change with multiple witnesses. We also looked at the idea that strange encounters may either be encoded in the DNA across generations, or give individuals a propensity for this. We ended with a back-and-forth on liminal states and Susan shared some of her own.

This was a very fruitful discussion at the sort of high level that always excites me.

Apologies for the occasional quality issues in the first 43 minutes. I tried to filter out all the wind noise, because I felt this interview was too important to lose.

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With that in mind Myers founded the UFO Watchdog site in 1998 to investigate and document abuses of trust and lapses of logic and sanity in the field. In 2003, Myers was sued for libel by UFO personality Sean David Morton. Nothing that Myers had published on his site was found to be untrue and Morton was ultimately ordered to pay Myers’ $16,000 in legal fees. We talked about this and the recent sentencing of Morton and his wife for attempting to defraud the IRS out of $4,800,000 and various private citizens of thousands more.

In the 1900s, Myers also investigated UFO sightings and cattle mutilations, and spoke  about some strange and inexplicable situations and reports he received. In the last half of the show, we also talked about other recent scandals and issues in the field, such as the Stan Romanek story and the Peruvian mummy controversy.

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The late researcher and author Jim Marrs had a distinct influence on Tim’s entry into the field of conspiracy, the paranormal and other aspects of the strange. He was Tim’s first interview and opened this season of his podcast, which is one reason why Tim has decided to stop producing the show and move on to other projects (after Marrs’ recent untimely death.)

At the end, we spent a few minutes on the East Coast Paraconference.

Photo: Tim at the Aetherius Society world headquarters in Hollywood.

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The talk roamed through a discussion of faked photos and the Stan Romanek drama before taking a detour into the subject of wishing machines. Then, Miles told me about his experience with a torturous mystery “hum” that plagued him for 26 days, and the community of people who hear various anomalous (and long-term) tones and hums.

I asked if he wanted to move on to the MUFON “death spiral” as he calls it. He also talked about his many years of experience with the organization at the local level and how this is sometimes very different than the public perception of the group. There was a bit of talk on the scandal of selling confidential results and records of abductee research.

For a bit of hope, we discussed how people can create new networks of detection, reporting, and study of UFOs.

Photo: Miles speaks at Roswell, 2017

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