It’s been an interesting ride, that’s for sure. During the first five years or so, we had a tremendous amount of traffic. There were times when being the moderator was as demanding as a full-time job.

But over the past several years, the topic of Sovereign Grace Ministries (or Sovereign Grace Churches, or whatever new entities the Powers That Be have come up with for rebranding purposes) has lost steam. There hasn’t really been anything interesting to discuss here in at least half a decade. That’s not to say the organization has ever fully addressed all its issues. But the noisy critics eventually got bored and quieted down. There’s also been a proliferation of websites dedicated to hashing, rehashing, and harping on dysfunctional churches.

As the years passed, my vision for this site always was that it would remain online indefinitely. I thought it was important for this slice of Sovereign Grace’s history to be found by anyone who looked for it. However, Guy has grown tired of paying the hosting fees and dealing with the security issues that go with running a site like this one. He has asked me to close up shop.

A part of me is still deeply attached to the information available here. It represents countless hours of my life.

But another part of me, a much larger part, has ZERO patience for the so-called “deconversion stories” that are so common now. At some point, for way too many people, rejecting their SGM church became synonymous with rejecting the Jesus of the Bible and the morality and worldview of the Bible.

I’ve said this many times before, in various ways, but I will say it again: if that’s you, REPENT. As Acts 4:12 would say, there’s only one name under heaven by which we can be saved.

The following remarks are going to sound an awful lot like what you might have heard at your Sovereign Grace church back in the day. But that doesn’t make them any less true.

That brokenness infecting all of life? That’s our sin. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. The only reliable way to know the mind of this Savior is through a straightforward verse-by-verse study of the Bible. Turn to God’s Word. Embrace the truth. Turn back to Jesus and turn away from your sins. Judgment is coming, sooner rather than later. The time is short.

But don’t stop there. Turn to Christ. Repent. Turn from your sins. But also – turn back to the church. Christians cannot exist in a vacuum. Stop using your negative previous church experiences as an excuse for not being part of a local body of believers. Find a place that simply teaches the Bible in a historical-grammatical expository fashion and GO. JOIN. SERVE.

Anyway, this post is going to be here for awhile, and then the site will be going away. PLEASE NOTE: everything on this site is copyrighted and may not be republished anywhere else without express permission.

Thanks for an amazing almost-fifteen years together!

© 2022, Kris. All rights reserved.

This was way before the problems with Sovereign Grace Ministries were EVER discussed publicly anywhere on the internet (except for some random comments on an inactive blog I eventually ended up preserving here). I had no idea other people might have felt the same as we did. Certainly, I had no idea anyone had had far worse experiences they wanted to talk about.

But life has a way of happening. Things change. People grow and change. Guy and I have grown and changed.

Just like Josh Harris, we have evolved in our thinking. Just in a way that’s basically the polar opposite of how he’s changed.

If you’re someone who has had a bad experience in your Sovereign Grace Church…if you’re someone who has stumbled on this site because you’ve been reading about Josh Harris’ recent self-proclaimed apostasy…if you’re looking for information about the Sovereign Grace organization’s historical issues…you’ve still reached a safe place where you can share your story, ask questions, or post your thoughts. Feel free to look around. Click on the “Stories” tab above. Read the sermon transcripts and see for yourself what used to be taught within SG churches.

HOWEVER, I feel like i need to explain where we are coming from nowadays. I’ve gotten more than a few emails asking why certain comments didn’t get published. I owe the readers here an explanation.

I seem to do my best thinking while responding to comments. Today, someone posted a comment and I wrote a response, and my response really captures where my thinking is right now. It might also help people understand where we are coming from nowadays. So I’m going to repost it below.

Again, full disclosure, it’s long and more than a little bit rambling. But hey, it’s the best I’ve got right now. So here goes…

This was posted in response to a commenter who asked,

Do honest and authentic Christians still come here to share their rich faith in Jesus Christ, and to rejoice in his faithfulness?

The short answer to your question is, for me, a resounding “Yes.” I find a lot of encouragement in many of the comments.

A more nuanced answer to your question (“Do honest and authentic Christians still come here to share their rich faith in Jesus Christ, and to rejoice in his faithfulness?”) is, it depends on which Jesus you’re talking about.

See, I’ve been on my own faith journey of sorts over the past several years. I think all believers are, actually, if we’re honest. And my journey has taken me some interesting places. I grew up in a really sweet, wholesome, mindlessly fundamentalist small-town Christian culture, going to the same Bible-believing Evangelical church and attending Christian schools the whole time. Some of the mindlessness about Christianity was a product of the era. I know I sound like an old lady these days, but I’m constantly telling my kids, things have changed TREMENDOUSLY in the past 20 years or so. It used to be that if someone claimed the name of Christ, there were certain things you could assume about their priorities, their attitudes, their lifestyle. Nowadays, that has all changed.

But anyway, that’s how I was raised, and for a number of years into adulthood, Guy and I sort of floated along, attending a couple of what were becoming increasingly bland seeker-friendly megachurches. Their statements of faith were all kosher, the preaching didn’t raise any alarms. But both Guy and I were feeling frustrated in a sort of nameless, formless way.

Then, through a series of random events, we found ourselves attending a Sunday evening service at a charismatic church. I was very yielded and eager…and on that night, I had some sort of experience. For years, I have sought to figure out what that experience was. Was it God? Was it my own brain? Was it the product of my eagerness?

Anyway, after that experience, I was hooked. We left our bland megachurch with nary a backward glance. Guy and I rather quickly became ENGULFED in the charismatic church. Despite all my Christian education (one class shy of a minor in theology, decades of decent teaching) there were a LOT of theological things that I didn’t understand at the time, things about hermeneutics in particular. I also rather deliberately shut my mind off. This was encouraged.

For awhile, things were great. The pastor and his wife were viewed as inaccessible celebrities in the little world they’d created, yet somehow Guy and I were singled out for attention. We felt empowered by and optimistic about the name-it-and-claim-it teachings. I mean, yeah, my old doctrinal muscle memory would nag me sometimes about how unbalanced it was to use some random opening greeting from 3 John (“Beloved, I wish above all else that you be in good health and prosper”) as the foundation for basically everything we were taught about how it was always God’s will to heal people and bless them financially. But I silenced those voices, in large part because I’d always come back to my experiences in the church.

After a few years there, though, things seemed to get wackier. Pretty soon, I couldn’t quiet the nagging thoughts that kept bubbling to the surface. I started to do some serious reading and research. Even though I kept assigning my experiences a great deal of weight (like, because I had such a great experience, the teachings can’t be coming from a totally wrong place), I also started critically examining the name-it-and-claim-it stuff.

It was this questioning that eventually led us to leave our charismatic church and find Sovereign Grace. We were drawn in by SG’s purported commitments to charismaticism and “sound doctrine.”

Anyway, warning, seemingly random segue here, but I promise it will come back around…

Mormonism has actually been an interest of mine for years. I educated myself on this religion when I first encountered some friends who seemed so Christian in their behavior but were actually LDS. I had to know how their beliefs differed from my own. I ended up learning so much about Mormonism. (It’s hilarious, when the Mormon missionaries roll up to our doorstep on their bikes, Guy will sigh because he knows I’m going to invite them in, feed them, and have a rousing discussion with them. More than once, they have actually admitted I know more about the doctrinal intricacies of their faith than they do.)

The entire foundation of Mormonism is Joseph Smith. Was he a legitimate prophet? Did an angel come down and give him a new revelation? Why do we accept or reject his claims?

Anyway, how this connects to my faith journey is, one day I was reading about hermeneutics and it suddenly occurred to me: If I’m willing to assign my own personal experience so much weight so that I can put up with teachings that are incompatible with the “whole counsel of God” as it is revealed through a straightforward reading of scripture, then why is it OK to reject Mormonism?

Along those same lines, how do we determine whether something is truly from God? What standard do we use to determine if Jesus is actually speaking to us?

People will talk about meeting Jesus, being encouraged to love like Jesus, encountering Jesus. And all of that is fine and dandy…EXCEPT, why do we reject some Jesuses (like the Jesus of Mormonism, or the Jesus of Marianne Williamson and the New Agers) but not others?

The standard answer has always been, you run it by the Bible. If it contradicts the Bible, if the Jesus you are encountering is different than the Jesus portrayed in the gospels, then your Jesus is a counterfeit Jesus…the product of your own imagination or maybe even of satanic forces.

Likewise, if you are a Christian and feel like you’re being told to do something and you think it’s Jesus/God telling you to do it, the standard answer has always been, does this behavior contradict what is commanded for believers in scripture? If it does, then the desire to engage in that behavior is coming from your unregenerate old sin nature, not the Holy Spirit/God/Jesus.

Nowadays, though, that standard answer is somehow not satisfactory to a lot of people. Nowadays, even otherwise earnest, committed believers think it’s “mean” or “harsh” to say a straightforward reading of scripture condemns something like homosexual activity.

I blame the seeker-friendly movement for some of this wimpiness about the Bible. Many of us have been conditioned to accept incorrect beliefs about evangelism and what “church” is supposed to be. We have been conditioned to see Jesus and church as products we need to sell to people. Our megachurches offer up endless sermons about having a better family, or managing your money better, or improving your marriage. You can find food banks and addiction recovery groups. What’s confusing, of course, is that there’s nothing exactly wrong about any of those messages or services…but all too often, it’s something of a bait-and-switch at best, where our churches first hide the hard truths of the gospel – truths like, you’re a sinner, lost, an enemy of God, dead in your sins, completely helpless and unable to save yourself or make yourself right with God – and only slip the less appealing parts of the Christian faith in later. At worst, the harder stuff is NEVER mentioned, because we’re afraid our “converts” will be turned off to a Jesus that might make demands on their lives or ask them to change anything.

One rationale for the church’s avoidance of addressing specific sinful behaviors is that many of us have also somehow bought into the idea that “all sins are equal in God’s eyes.”

Really, this was actually HUGE within SGM and is why child molesters were regarded as no worse than someone who was struggling with unforgiveness. There has been this TOTALLY STUPID embrace of thinking that Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7 somehow means engaging in adulterous sex isn’t any worse in God’s eyes than merely thinking about it. Or that being gay – engaging in homosexual behavior and building your entire identity upon the foundation of your sexual proclivities – is no worse a sin than gossiping.

Yes, it is true that all sin separates us from God. That was Jesus’ point in Matthew 5-7, that no one among His Jewish listeners could ever hope to follow the law well enough to please God. Jesus was establishing their need for a Savior, someone who was both perfect man AND God, someone who could keep the law perfectly in both outward AND inward ways.

But Jesus was not saying that if you tell a lie, for example, you are going to experience an equal amount of destructive consequences as the person who sins sexually. Later in the New Testament, Paul explains that sexual sin is in a separate category (check out I Corinthians 6, for example). Sexual sin does unique harm to the sinner.

I’m NOT saying there’s somehow not grace for the person who has fallen sexually. Obviously there is! (Because the Bible says there is…)

But – to bring this rambling comment back around to clearly address the original question – if someone reads here and is asking about “refreshment from Jesus” or whatever, sure. Absolutely! We can talk about Jesus and celebrate forgiveness and God’s love all day long. As long as we are clearly discussing the Jesus of the Bible and God’s love as it is portrayed there, balanced equally with God’s perfect and incredible holiness and our utter abject failure without Christ to approach God and meet His holy standards.

You see, my faith journey has led me to resoundingly reject anything that does not go with a straightforward reading of scripture. You wanna celebrate gay pride like Josh Harris did this past weekend? Do so somewhere else. Wanna talk about how Jesus provides salvation and grace for us? Sure, absolutely – as long as I can tell there’s a balance to your comment and you aren’t leading people astray to assume the Bible has somehow suddenly become OK with behaviors it clearly deems sinful.

Because…I mean…why do you believe anything about Jesus, if you feel like rejecting some of scripture? If you’re basing your Jesus on some experience you had, how do we assess whether it’s the Jesus of the Bible or the Jesus of your imagination that was affected by that bad pizza you had last night? This is where I applaud Josh Harris for at least (for now) pretending to be intellectually consistent in his rejection of the Christian faith because he’s rejecting the Bible’s sexual ethic.

Anyway, I’ve reached a place in my own personal walk with the Lord where I’m not going to coddle people here by shying away from standing up for the truth of scripture. Even if those people have been badly hurt by their Sovereign Grace pastors’ misuse of scriptures. Truth is truth. The good news of Jesus is quite literally all we have between us and an eternity in hell. We get the good news of Jesus from the Bible, and pretty much only the Bible (because all other subjective stuff has to be judged BY the Bible or else it is worth no more than Mormonism). Life is too short and the times are evil.

It’s not “mean” or “harsh” to say so. If anything, it’s the least kind thing you could do, to affirm someone in his or her journey to hell in the interest of being nice.

© 2019 – 2022, Kris. All rights reserved.

My heart is full of gratitude. I wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce. They are expressions of love though they are saddened or even strongly disapprove of the decision.⁣⁣
⁣⁣
I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.)⁣⁣
⁣⁣
The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.⁣⁣
⁣⁣
Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me.⁣⁣
⁣⁣
To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”

Covenant Life Church, where Josh was senior pastor for several years, sent its members the following email late last night:

Dear Covenant Life family,

This week our former Lead Pastor, Josh Harris, shared some significant news. First, he and his wife Shannon announced that they’re separated. Then in a follow up post, he said “by all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian.”

These updates are hard to hear. We love Josh and Shannon. For most of us, Josh isn’t just some distant public figure. He’s a beloved former pastor and friend. So this news isn’t just a lot to process theoretically. It hits home personally. 

How do we process the news that someone who was a spiritual leader in our community, who taught us God’s Word, who ministered to us, no longer considers himself a follower of Christ?

Today, after I got the news, I read through Paul’s first letter to Timothy and found it very grounding. Several times Paul mentions former Christian leaders “swerving from,” “wandering from,” or “making shipwreck” of their faith. So while this is sad and confusing, it isn’t new. Christian leaders occasionally veered from faith at the very beginning. Paul says some had gone off course theologically. Others behaved in ways that violated Christian conscience. For others, it was greed. In every case, Paul’s hope was for redemption and restoration. That these leaders would develop “love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.” (1 Tim 1:5) That should be our hope and prayer for Josh as well. 

Paul’s primary instruction for us when leaders swerve from faith is that we make it an opportunity for greater resolve in our own faith, not less. Seeing leaders who taught us the gospel veer from it should deepen our commitment to “guard the good deposit” entrusted to us. And “pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.” (1 Tim 6:11)

So, Covenant Life, pray for our friend Josh. Pray with sincere hope for a redemptive end. And ask the God of all grace and power for fresh resolve in your own fight of faith. “Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called.” (1 Tim 6:12)

In Love,
Kevin

P.S. – If you’re having particular trouble processing this, any of the pastors would be glad to talk with you. If you’re specifically wrestling with how to process teaching you heard from Josh, you may find this video from John Piper helpful. 

I realize my opinions don’t carry any particular weight, but still. I have all sorts of thoughts on these developments.

I actually really like CLC’s email. And…it just goes to show, churches would do well to follow scriptural guidelines for elders. It’s generally not a good idea to hand-pick a very young man and place a ton of responsibility on his shoulders.

Furthermore (and probably most importantly), we need to be praying for Josh. As an outsider who has observed him from afar over the years, he strikes me as someone who has always been eager for approval, first from his father and then from his mentor. Unfortunately, in the land of CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace churches, that compliance and desire to please were misconstrued as “humility.” Josh’s bosses thought his submission to their authority made him more godly.

And yes, it can be a good quality, to want to please. When SGM’s problems came to light, Josh seemed much nicer than many other leaders in how he responded.

At the same time, though, put a person like that in an open-ended academic environment, and it’s highly likely he will end up absorbing the beliefs and values of his professors and fellow students, particularly if he has reason to question his original beliefs, or if his original beliefs were built on a shaky academic foundation. Factor in our sick culture today and the additional peer pressure to disavow any non-woke views, and honestly, I’m not surprised at all to read Josh’s latest statement.

The good news is, if the Holy Spirit has been at work in Josh’s life to regenerate him at some point – back when he was still a professing believer – then the Holy Spirit is still at work, and eventually, Josh will come back around. As I said, join me in praying for him and Shannon.

© 2019, Kris. All rights reserved.

But let’s get a few items out of the way first. Here’s what you won’t find in this post: 1) any sort of information about the Harrises that you haven’t already heard elsewhere; 2) any sort of stick-it-to-ya glee that the courtship guru’s rigid formulas (which caused great harm to many) didn’t actually work out so well for the guru himself; and 3) any sort of cluck-clucking over the supposed evils of patriarchy or complementarianism or a serious approach to Scripture.

So, now that we’re all clear, here goes.

My heart aches for Josh, Shannon, and their kids.

We should pray for them. Pray that they would be renewed and strengthened in their faith. That they would look to Jesus rather than the world. That they would be able to separate the truths about God and the Bible from the lies of the cult that engulfed them and elevated Josh when he probably wasn’t ready for that sort of thing. That the Holy Spirit would draw both of them closer to the Lord. That they would be protected from the fiery darts of the evil one, who goes around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

Pray that their marriage could be saved. That whatever drew them together in the first place would come back to life. That they won’t actually divorce.

God hates divorce.

And God’s opinion is the only one that matters.

I don’t really want to make this post–the first in such a long time–about me, but for those of you who have asked, I need to share my heart. There’s a reason I haven’t posted here much.

You see, a few years ago, maybe five or six years ago, I found myself growing frustrated with what I was seeing, both on this site and on other “watchblogger” sites. It seemed to me like more and more of the people who figured out the truth about their Sovereign Grace churches didn’t just reject the Sovereign Grace craziness. Instead, they felt the need to reject Bible-based Christianity in a much broader, more profound way.

And this filled me with fear.

Someday very soon, we all are going to stand in front of the God of the universe, the perfectly holy, perfectly righteous God as He is portrayed in scripture. If we have not accepted what He did for us through the atoning work of Christ on the cross, if we have not repented of our sins (as sin is defined in the Bible) and accepted this great gift of salvation, then that day in front of the Lord is going to be extremely frightening, a day of pain and regret and weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It’s not going to matter if we found ourselves, lived our dreams, did what made us happy on earth. It’s not going to matter if we were the wokest woke person who ever woked.

On that day, the ONLY thing that will matter is whether we are right with God. And if you somehow have ended up rejecting the Jesus of scripture when you rejected your Sovereign Grace church, then you are in deep trouble.

Don’t let disillusionment with a particular church system lead you to turn away from Christ. He is all that matters, and His work on your behalf is the only thing that will stand between you and eternity in hell. No matter what our pagan culture may be telling us, God is still God, sin is still sin, and we all need a Savior.

Go back to the Bible. Read the scriptures. Let the Holy Spirit illuminate them. Allow yourself to be convicted and transformed by God’s Word.

Love and blessings,

Kris

© 2019, Kris. All rights reserved.

– dead
– plants from SGM
– jerks that basically gave up on our followers.

We aren’t dead.
We aren’t “plants” from SGM
And we aren’t jerks.

I travel extensively and failed to renew this domain. It expired, and I renewed it again. We’ve been at this for well over 10 years and are invested in you guys. We won’t “disappear” on you without notice, but to be honest, we have lives, jobs, children and those are priority.

We love all of you (even the haters). Don’t buy into rumors…

Guy

© 2018 – 2019, Kris. All rights reserved.

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

———————————

While I am the first to say that any coverup of sex abuse is horrific and evil, particularly when done by a church, I think it would be interesting to explore the mindset behind any such coverup.

What is it about their SGM training that would make SGM pastors respond to abusers in such a way?  Why would SGM pastors appear to extend more grace to perpetrators than to victims?  Why would SGM pastors believe that they should be the primary source of counsel and support for perpetrators?  Why would SGM pastors exhibit a reluctance to get outside help or call upon law enforcement to deal with such perpetrators?

It’s my opinion that SGM’s twisted teachings about sin and the role of the pastor – as well as SGM’s blurring of the lines between “the gospel” and “the SGM church organization” – are what have led to situations where these sorts of crimes seem to be minimized, and perpetrators quickly restored to good standing within congregations.

First of all, SGM holds to the (in my opinion essentially correct and biblical) belief that all problems faced by humanity can be traced back to sin. I say I think it’s an “essentially correct and biblical belief” because if we dig through all the layers of human suffering and misery and downright evil, we are left with almost no other choice but to conclude that humanity is messy because humanity is fallen and sinful.

However, where I would part ways with SGM’s assumption is where SGM’s essentially correct belief about sin morphs into what SGM believes is the remedy for sin.

In SGM’s teachings – and if I wanted to take more time to develop this, I could go back and dig up plenty of quotes from books like Why Small Groups and sermons like CJ’s Happiest Place On Earth, as well as plenty of other resources that are available for the whole world to read and hear – the problem of sin is seen as being addressed by not just the work of Jesus on the cross and His continued presence with us through the Holy Spirit.  SGM would say that Jesus’ work on the cross is now being “finished” or “completed” by how Christians relate to a “local” church and how Christians are affected by the work of the pastors in their lives.

In the book Why Small Groups? (available as a free download here) a case is laid out like this:

1.  Yes, salvation is through Christ alone, through his atoning sacrifice.

2.  Salvation, however, is separate from sanctification.

4.  Although, sanctification WILL result anytime someone is “truly saved.”

5.  Sanctification cannot happen apart from “biblical fellowship.”  I actually am going to go and dig up a quote to back this one up.  From Chapter 1 of Why Small Groups? comes this:

Although one’s personal responsibility for sanctification remains paramount, sanctification cannot be accomplished in isolation from the local church. Scripture clearly teaches that sanctification is intended to take place in the local church—and small groups contribute invaluably to this process.

You can read the whole chapter to get an even better feel for how thoroughly CJ and his cohorts view participation in “biblical fellowship” a completely essential element of a person’s sanctification.

6.  A key componant of “biblical fellowship” is interacting with people in a way where they freely confront you about your sin and where you humbly submit to others’ assessment of your sin.  I would strongly urge people to read Why Small Groups? if they have not already done so, and examine how narrowly and explicitly “biblical fellowship” is defined, and how it almost cannot take place anywhere but in a small group set up and run the way SGM runs small groups.

(By the way – this principle is FOUNDATIONAL if anyone wants to understand the driving force behind Brent Detwiler’s seeming obsession with confronting CJ in his sins.  In the SGM mindset, a lack of willingness to submit to others’ assessment of your sin and to acknowledge your sins when confronted with them is almost a sign that you are out of fellowship with God.  If we can grasp this, we can understand why in Brent’s mind, CJ’s unwillingness to be confronted was so utterly grievous and dismaying.  And why Brent continued his pursuit so doggedly…even as he talked about “grace,” which most Christians understand as letting someone off the hook.  In SGM thinking, true “grace” must involve sticking with the confrontation no matter what, because unwillingness to acknowledge one’s sins when confronted would be a sign that the person is not being sanctified…which is a sign that the person could maybe not even be saved!)

7.  Also, SGM believes that another essential part of “biblical fellowship” is a person’s continued oversight from his pastor, who also bears the responsibility to continue to confront the person on his sin.  SGMers are taught that pastors, by virtue of their higher calling and “gifting,” possess special abilities to perceive a person’s sins more accurately than the person himself.  You can read a transcript of C.J. Mahaney’s Happiest Place On Earth sermon here.  C.J. has traveled around the country, delivering that sermon to many SGM churches over the years.  While (once again) Dave Harvey would now apparently like people to think that SGM does not teach that pastors have special authority over people, that is simply not true.

8.  Essential to the SGM understanding of the gospel is a demonstration that one remains keenly aware of one’s “worst sinner one knows” status.  I realize that this comment is already excruciatingly long, but I really want to lay this all out in one place, so I’m going to quote from another post:

Deeply embedded in the SGM mindset are some assumptions:

1. All sins are just as vile in the eyes of God.

2. One of the clearest signs of “rebellion” is when a person sees himself as an injured party, because no injury that can be perpetrated against the person could ever surpass the horror that the person’s own sin is in the eyes of God.

3. The clearest sign of a “repentant” person is eager confession of wrongdoing.

Taking those three SGM assumptions, let’s examine Noel’s pastors’ response to her family’s situation. In light of these assumptions, I think we can more clearly understand a bit of what went through those pastors’ minds as they offered more sympathy and support to the perp rather than the victims. Even though the pastoral responses are basically incomprehensible to a normal person, they sort of start to make sense when you think of it in this way:

Because of SGM’s belief that each of us must always be “the worst sinner that we ourselves know,” we basically give up our rights to ANY victimhood, no matter how heinous the crime committed against us.

In other words, even though what happened to Noel’s family was absolutely horrific, SGM’s foundational teachings would say that Noel’s only legitimate “biblical” response would be to examine her own sinfulness and see herself as “the worst sinner” she knows. Her pastors would see it as their duty to direct Noel’s attention first of all to her own indwelling sin, her own wretchedness in God’s eyes. I believe they sincerely think that this is “bringing the Gospel into” everything they do. For them, “the Gospel” is firstly and foremostly about our own sin.

But instinctively, we know that something is jacked up in this view. God’s own Word would tell us that He does see some sins as having broader and more lasting consequences than other sins. Yes, all sin is an abomination in God’s eyes…theoretically. But we all know the REALITY, that if I go out and kill someone, there are far more ramifications all the way around than if I lie by calling in sick to work one day when I’m not actually sick and just want to go shopping with my friends. Both the murder and the lie are sins in God’s eyes and both are wretched, but if you lie to me, I’m probably going to be less upset than if you kill someone near and dear to me.

In SGMville, though, this normal human reaction – one that the even the Bible would seem to support, if you examine how God outlined so many very specific laws and guidelines governing behavior for Old Testament Israel – is circumvented. It doesn’t matter if you’ve been the victim of a liar or a murderer. In your SGM pastor’s mind, you’ve got NO RIGHT to see yourself as a victim, of any sort. In order to “bring the Gospel in,” they’re duty-bound to remind you of your own sinfulness, like it’s some sort of tonic for the normal grief that you might feel because of the ramifications of the sin that was perpetrated against you…like somehow, if I as the victim can just focus on my own badness, I’ll forget that someone molested my child.

So OK. In SGMville, all sins are created equal.

Now, enter the perp. Perp expresses sorrow and remorse for his sin. He truly IS the “worst sinner that he knows,” so such a mindset comes easily and naturally to him. In the eyes of his SGM pastors, he automatically then becomes the “more righteous” person, since his response is the only “truly biblical” repsonse that they can find acceptable.

It gets worse if the victim stands up for himself/herself in any fashion. SGM pastors immediately see this as unforgiveness, which of course is a sin, which then makes the victim even WORSE than the remorseful (and therefore righteous) perp.

Again, I did not think of this myself. Someone else initially posted these general thoughts. But I thought these were some brilliant observations that did far more to shed light on Noel’s pastors’ really twisted and bizarre behavior than just about anything else.

To me, this helps to make sense of why, in SGMville, the victims are minimized while the perps are protected. It’s because in SGMville, the only thing that is really righteous is seeing oneself as “the worst sinner one knows.” If one has had a crime – particularly a heinous crime like child abuse – perpetrated against one, there is NO HONEST WAY that one can authentically and enthusiastically embrace “worst sinner” status in one’s thinking. One instinctively knows that someone else’s sin (in this case, one’s perp’s sin) is greater than one’s own sin. So one naturally raises objections to embracing “worst sinner” status.

SGM pastors sense this and seem to hone in on it, interpreting standing up for oneself as a sign of pride and sin and unforgiveness.

Meanwhile, the perp is over in his corner crying his genuine tears of sorrow. Because he truly IS the “worst sinner he knows” at that moment, he is more righteous, and hence more worthy of protection.

9.  We have to factor in SGM’s longstanding distrust of and total disdain for the mental health profession.  SGM has long taught that “secular psychology” has absolutely nothing to offer the believer in terms of solving problems.  (You can see what was taught to SGM pastors fairly recently – in 2009 – about the “counseling process” by viewing a transcript of that talk.  Access Part 1 here, Part 2 here, and Part 3 here.)

Anyway, to connect the dots of all this to the situations where SGM pastors were aware of sex abuse and seem to do nothing to address the problem legally…

If all problems are sin issues, and if the only solution to all sin issues (sanctification) must involve continued “biblical fellowship,” which – most importantly – includes continued confrontation from a pastor about one’s sins…

And if “secular psychology” presents no way for this to continue, but a pastor’s counsel does…

And if a perpetrator has acknowledged his sin to his pastor…

And if it is un-Christian (“sinful”) to ever feel like one has the right to be a total victim, with no corresponding need to focus on one’s own sin…

Then it makes total sense for the SGM pastor to:

1.  Appear to side with the perpetrator.

2.  Believe that his pastoral counsel is all that is needed.

3.  Believe that he is actually better serving the victim through his position, because he is making it more difficult for the victim to pursue what would be sin – i.e. being a victim and “demonstrating unforgiveness” by pursuing justice through the legal system.

4.  Consequently believe that through all of this, he is “protecting the gospel” or some such, because the SGM gospel is all about confronting and rooting out sin, never having the right to be a victim, and demonstrating one’s salvation status by the sanctification process of confessing one’s sins – which a perpetrator has already done, therefore making the perpetrator “more sanctified” than someone who is trying to get justice as a victim.

© 2018, Kris. All rights reserved.

© 2018, Kris. All rights reserved.

I can’t say I blame him. Things have been pretty dead around here. NOT because Sovereign Grace Ministries’ leadership ever fully acknowledged and took responsibility for their institutional dysfunction. To the best of my knowledge, that’s never happened on any organization-wide official scale. Yes, Covenant Life Church and several other SGM congregations around the country parted ways with Sovereign Grace Ministries. Some leaders, including Joshua Harris, did speak out and take some responsibility for SGM’s issues. C.J. Mahaney did step down as president of Sovereign Grace Ministries.

But after some cursory soul-searching back in 2012-13 or so, C.J. Mahaney and crew dispatched themselves to start a very well-funded InstaChurch in Louisville, Kentucky. New leadership was named at SGM Corporate, which also relocated to Louisville from Gaithersburg, Maryland. In late 2014, Sovereign Grace Ministries quietly rebranded itself yet again for its fourth moniker (Gathering of Believers became People of Destiny International became PDI Ministries, became Sovereign Grace Ministries), becoming Sovereign Grace Churches. Recently, Sovereign Grace Churches even doubled down on their denials of wrongdoing, apparently hoping people will believe that the dismissal of the sex abuse scandal on a technicality (the statute of limitations had run out) means the justice system officially determined that there never was any merit to ANY of the complaints made within that lawsuit.

So no, it’s not that there’s nothing left to talk about here when it comes to Sovereign Grace Churches. There is. I just haven’t had the self-discipline or motivation to crank out posts. I’ve never seen myself as some sort of crusader. I don’t actually have an ax to grind with Sovereign Grace Churches specifically. And certainly, being a more generic “watch-blogger” has never held any appeal for me. Who wants to spend their days self-importantly clucking over every perceived problem in conservative Evangelicalism?

I’m also not comfortable being an unthinking “victims’ advocate.” I’ve just never been the kind of person who can unquestioningly believe every random accusation no matter how ludicrous, even if said allegation is included in a lawsuit filing. More importantly, I’m not particularly interested in hosting a website where people feel free to spew negativity about what is literally our only comfort in life and death. For believers, there’s a vital God-mandated “baby” (the local church) in the filthy “bathwater” of Sovereign Grace Churches’ bad behavior, and recognizing problems with a particular way of doing church is definitely no excuse for ditching church altogether.

But I’m not ready quite yet to let go of this specific space, of what happened here, either. I remain convinced that a lot of the stuff here needs to remain available, particularly things like transcripts of key sermons that formed the foundation for many of SGM’s unofficial yet organization-wide cultural practices. If you read here long enough, with an even slightly open mind, I think you’ll come away with a sense of the scope and breadth of SGM’s/SGC’s issues and why the purported changes of the past few years may not be enough to address things. I mean, given their very recent denials, Sovereign Grace Churches’ leaders apparently STILL struggle mightily to own their obvious historical problems.

I’m also curious to get some sense of where Sovereign Grace Churches are today. I haven’t interacted much over the past couple of years with people currently involved in Sovereign Grace Churches, so I’m wondering about whether things have changed much, and if so, how? For instance, how has C.J. Mahaney’s departure as leader affected the organization these past 5 or so years? How is Sovereign Grace Churches’ polity different? What policies does SGC have in place to prevent the kinds of abuses that occurred prior to when the internet lifted the veil of secrecy? Has anyone ever officially acknowledged the truths of Brent Detwiler’s documents? What has been done to either refute his charges or reconcile with him?

Are changes–and more importantly, the reasons for the changes, the problems that arose and prompted the changes–discussed and explained? Or has change just been implemented with little information?

What do Sovereign Grace Churches stand for these days? How do they characterized themselves? Are they still touting themselves to be “Reformed and Charismatic”? Do they still have the prophecy microphone? Do they still believe the role of apostle exists in some form today? What do they teach about pastoral authority now? What sort of accountability is in place for pastors? Are pastors accountable to their congregations in some sort of formal way, or are they still basically only accountable to other pastors? Does SGC still plant churches? Is C.J. Mahaney’s Louisville plant self-supporting now? Are pastoral salaries disclosed to the congregation? Are church members still primarily seeking counseling from their Sovereign Grace Churches pastors? Are psychiatric drugs still subtly (and not-so-subtly) discouraged? Are members still encouraged to confront one another about perceived sins? Do small groups (called “care groups” at Covenant Life Church) still exist in the same format? Are people free to join any care/small group of their choice, or are they assigned (and then randomly reassigned) to small groups?

How do individual Sovereign Grace Churches feel about the recent statements about sexual abuse from Corporate? Is this the widespread party line, that because the 2012 lawsuit was dismissed on a technicality, Sovereign Grace Ministries was somehow vindicated and found “not guilty” of any of the allegations contained in the lawsuit? Do present-day Sovereign Grace Churches acknowledge the old unspoken social systems that gave rise to so many situations where pastors protected abusers and did not report abuse to law enforcement?

Do people feel free to ask questions of their leaders now? How do leaders respond when questioned? Are the “gossip ‘n’ slander” charges still thrown about as willy-nilly as they used to be?

Most importantly, will there ever be official corporate-wide acknowledgement of Sovereign Grace Ministries’ historical missteps and dysfunction?

What do you think?

© 2018, Kris. All rights reserved.

I’ll bet you thought I was dead and buried, didn’t you :). Nope. Just creating a new post because the comments are getting too large.

Hope everyone is doing well. Perhaps we can all play catch up soon?

© 2017 – 2018, Kris. All rights reserved.

Kris and I are still here, albeit not as engaged with the SGM (or whatever it calls itself today) mess. If we choose to do away with this little section of the innernet, I plan on archiving all posts and comments in a tidy (huge?) collection and will make it available.

Until that time comes, feel free to keep talking.

Guy

© 2016 – 2017, Kris. All rights reserved.