The abundant amount of discussion, here and elsewhere, that this list has sparked happily suggests we have not reached that extreme.

I wonder, though, how many others haven’t joined the debate because they are afraid of how their comments might be construed.

Mr. Sinclair can take the heat, obviously, and has done so with open arms.

But let’s also remember to let ourselves, and others, have some fun.

Long live the butch, and you, and our ability to name ourselves.

So seeing something like this (which is focused on queer women and lesbian communities even if expanded to gender benders and non-binary folks) which included a dozen trans men and only one trans woman is a dissapointing reminder of how trans men are valued more than trans women in dyke/queer women/etc spaces. Hearing about the removal of trans men (except those who personally okayed it) and the request for nominations of butch trans women, was really heartening, especially because so often trans women are considered undateable and not hot by definition in queer women’s communities.

I would suppose the reason why you don’t know of any butch trans women is not because we are rare, but because of our constant rejection from community. For those identifying as women, trans and butch both individually are sometimes seen as negating that identity — combining them greatly intensifies the effect and “butch trans woman” is often seen as an oxymoron. A lot of butch trans women are either quiet about their butch status or quiet about their trans status for that reason. And those who openly attend queer women’s events as butch trans women often face strong negative reactions. Noteriety in queer communities, being one of the qualifications for the list, can be more difficult for butch trans women to attain, as many are still working on acceptance in queer and queer women’s communities. What you need to do to overcome that is exactly what you did, remind people specifically to nominate them, and in the process making it clear that they won’t be dismissed out of hand.

That said, I think I’d personally be dissapointed if the name of the list was changed. The name by itself wouldn’t change the dynamics of inclusion and exclusion. Having significant inclusion of trans women on a hot butches list is really meaningful. If trans women were added to the list at the same time the list was de-gendered, well, even understanding that the presence of trans women was not the motivation for de-gendering the list, that would seem fairly insulting.

Thanks for the list which must have been hard work and taken ages. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. Probably shouldn’t say it- but sometimes I can’t help feeling that all this gender politics is taken far too seriously a lot of the time.

It’s a hot list – good on you!

BB
X

Your writing’s amazing. I’m still figuring out this whole gender thing, and your blog and your ideas are a whole new landscape of thinking. Thanks!

Your slumming it and the trans women who bleed over that word are wondering why you don’t go back across the tracks.

and binary id’d ppl generally don’t like being thirdgendered by attaching their trans status to their gender–trans men not transmen.

I was making a distinction between transmen (who wish to assimilate into binary gendered society) and transmen (who don’t wish to assimilate into binary gendered society) and how in this instance, with regards to posting pictures, it’s good to check in with the transman in question to ascertain which category he might wish to be placed and whether it is appropriate to include him in the project.

And where the hell have you got this bullshit about fetishising transmales in dyke communities? You sound like you have a few personal issues that you might want to address. I really don’t like wearing other peoples shit, especially strangers off teh interwebz, thankyou very much.