Super Average Podcast - Comments

Another Perspective

Dumb Salesman — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:09:00 -0700

A couple of points.

The salesman ONLY gets paid if he makes a sale. In fact, if you decide you want the remodel in 6 months, his manager will NOT let him go back on the call. Someone else will go and get the commission. So is that ethical? Well, from the company's perspective, with all the dishonesty and lack of work ethic around, how else do you motivate a salesperson to actually do their job? Pay them to just show up? Nobody can be there to monitor their job performance, so companies have determined the best way to motivate their sales force to do what they are employed to do is... require them to sell to earn their keep. That's their side.

As for the salesman, he has to write a contract and get a check to get paid - on the first call. It is 'First Call Close' sales, which 99% of HI sales consist of. Why? Because it has been proved again and again that the vast majority of folks who say "I need to think about it" will never call back, so to build a business model that incorporates 2 and 3 call sales systems ALWAYS fail.

So... it appears that the depravity of man is a driving force behind this type of sales. The adage that "Buyers are Liars" is very common among salesmen, because it is true! They will say they are just getting quotes, that they need to check their bank balances, that they want to check with their Mom/Dad/Wife/Sister/Brother/whatever, that they'll call back tomorrow/a few days/next week/month, and most will never do that. Maybe there is a model that works other than this, but nobody has yet found it, and believe me, many have tried.

So then what's a poor slob Christian to do when the ONLY job offer he's gotten in two years is in FCC HI sales? Do it honestly? Tell the folks he'll not get paid unless they buy? Oops... that's guilt tripping them. Pretend that its no big deal that they don't buy? Ooops... that's dishonesty. Just go about the job of giving estimates and hope the law of averages works out for them without using ANY form of persuasion to earn a living and keep their jobs? Doesn't work... I've tried.

So maybe the thing to do is leave the HI market in the hands of the pagans. Or maybe, not call for an HI salesman to come to your home unless you're interested in having some actual work done? Or maybe, as I'm trying now, as a sales rep, let the folks know from the start that I'm here to ask for their business, that yes is fine, no is fine, too, but maybes give me heartburn. My job is to give you enough information to decide if what we offer will work for you or NOT.

The reason those companies offer that 'scammy' 10% off for a first night decision is that those rare second and third visits cost HUGE amounts of money in overhead and scheduling costs. Which is better, make everybody else pay for the indecisiveness of tire kickers and chuckleheads who just want somebody to come by so they can talk about their politics (and there are plenty of those) which of course, makes your product more expensive and thus less saleable, or reward people who are serious and have the ability to make a decision with a better price. How is that unethical?

Sadly Yes

Matt — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 05:43:12 -0700

Yes, we are done. Life circumstances brought about an end to recording.

Done?

osborn4 — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:12:31 -0800

So, are you guys done? Should I delete this feed from my Google home page?

Good episode

Osborn4 — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:55:31 -0700

I just wanted to say (after my comments last week( that I thought this was a very good episode. "Speaking the truth in love" is something I struggle with. I, also, tend to concentrate on the truth part and not so good with the love part.

How this has fostered itself is that for non-Christians, if I can't figger out the love part, I will lighten up on the truth part. For Christians, I figger they are already loved, and I will sometimes lay into them with the truth.

Neither of these are optimum solutions, obviously. But I'm working on it.

In Comparison

Matt — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:01:52 -0700

When you think about it, the sheep aren't nearly as smart as the shepherd. In comparison to sheep and shepherds we are much dumber than God compared with the sheep to the shepherd.

Also always right

Phil — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:23:28 -0700

Great show,

As a fellow engineer, I also have a knack for learning and picking up inconsistencies of what people say against existing knowledge. I rarely get criticized except for being arrogant, and I kind of come away thinking "I'd rather be arrogant than wrong [like you]". Not the most humble, but I'm working on that.

Key areas are technical and theology mainly because that's where I have the most detailed knowledge.

In my profession, I'm paid to pick up on poor compliance with established process and assertively state what's incorrect about it which positively reinforces behavior which is then frowned on at Church :-/.

With my group of [hyper-critical] mates, we tend to assert known fact with a flavor of 'I think' or 'My understanding is' to allow others room to correct us - it just makes things less confrontational.

- Phil
www.lighthousechurch.com.au

Shepherds and Sheep

tgbdad — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:08:21 -0700

For Pastor Dion, I wanted to share some thoughts on the whole shepherd topic.

First, a quote: "People are sheep. Sheep are stupid. There are no exceptions."

I'm reminded that when we think of shepherds, we tend to focus on the sheep, and hardly even picture the shepherd in detail. It's because the shepherd just a nobody and the sheep are so cute. Especially the little lamb we often see being carried around the neck of the shepherd. Let's not forget that that lamb isn't there as an early version of a neck pillow. That lamb is there because it kept straying, and the shepherd had to break its leg to contain it, and now it must be carried by the shepherd and learn to be dependent upon him while it heals from its brokenness. The shepherd has to put on the smackdown every once in a while.

Shepherds were, and probably are, pretty lowly people. That speaks of humility. But the sheep are under the shepherd. It's good to pause and think about that every once in a while.

Micah

But I am always right

tgbdad — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:55:19 -0700

Like Bob and Matt, I tend to jump on things most when procedural or factual issues are on the line. What freaks people out is that when I get enough information to realize I'm wrong, I change direction and people want to keep arguing with me, even though I've now changed to their side.

I've learned to use this characteristic to work quickly towards solutions, although oftentimes it turns out that neither party had the right approach to the task at hand. When we start talking in circles, my boss likes to make me take over the whiteboard in our conference room and start laying all the pieces out for everyone. I may be leading the conversation, but everyone can chime in their piece and eventually a solution is reached.

I tend to be a lot less confrontational about issues that involve opinion, theology, or just general life issues. I think that's because I'm pretty aware of my own shortcomings. That doesn't mean I don't ever say anything. I just approach those things with a lot less of an "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude.

Micah

OK. I just finished

osborn4 — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:57:34 -0700

OK. I just finished listening to the last 5 minutes of the podcast and boy is my face red. (Lunch ended yesterday before the podcast did.)

That last five minutes added A LOT of balance and really changed the tone of the whole thing and brought the real issue back into focus.

Thanks. I'll try to listen to the whole thing before I "go off" on you guys again.

1 Tim 6:10 For the love of

osborn4 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:33:23 -0700

1 Tim 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Not money, the love of money.

The camel can't go through the needle gate unless it is willing to be unloaded.

The rich man couldn't get to heaven, not because he had stuff, because he wasn't willing to give it away.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

bigger than suburbia

Dion — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:08:43 -0700

after listening to the episode again, I thought it was a very good episode. Though I did feel remiss that so much of it was focused on "suburbia". That's my context and I was sharing my personal struggle so we got stuck on suburbia, but I think these battles are found anywhere. It just so happens that I live in suburbia and can easily identify the dangers of the suburban forms of materialism (and more notably consumerism).

I'm not sure that I can go along with the idea that stuff is not good or evil in and of itself, Jesus warned that 'stuff' has great power and that we should be especially cautious with it. Jesus' extensive warnings about money and possessions seem to indicate that they aren't exactly benign, definitely aren't neutral. I think in the western world we've thrown caution to the wind when it comes to possessions, no longer believing that they have a power to lead us astray, and actually believing that they've got the power to fulfill us. We're clearly suffering for it. The headlines of the last week underscore that fact. The unprecedented dissatisfaction with life in people all around us speak volumes.

Perhaps those people who live in cities or in rural areas could explain how this manifests itself there, and if anyone wants to chime in, I'd love to hear it. I just know that American suburbia is built on the idea that you can and should have everything you want and that you shouldn't have to share with anyone (a direct reaction to communism which focused on 'shared' stuff). It's a dangerous proposition for people who are so easily swayed by "stuff"

That was my point, i think by the challenge i eventually got around to it. The goal was to have people take a hard look at themselves. I hope that happened. I also hope you can take anything that you heard as mean spirited with grace. thanks.

motives

Dion — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:47:35 -0700

I just listened to this episode (i missed a couple of workouts last week so i'm behind on my podcast listening!)

Like I said, I tend to "jump on" wrong motives.

After thinking about this, I do think I have the ability to know MOST OFTEN when someone's motive is awry. But I've been thinking about the fact that most people may not realize that their motives are afoul, or they may not see the problem with where their motivations are.

So, I've been thinking that I could probably help people 'discover' their motives rather than just calling them out as wrong. It'd be a lot better if I could help them come to see that their motives are wrong. they'd probably be more likely to change them.

That's what I'll keep thinking about....

Stuff is amoral

osborn4 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:55:07 -0700

Stuff is not good or evil. It is amoral.

It all depends on where your heart is. If we did not live in a little suburban town in a 3 bedroom house for the 4 of us, we would not have had the space to sanely house my father in law for these last few months.

If we didn't have the large van, we would not have been able to loan it to my brother when he had to haul his wife and kids across the country to visit his in-laws.

I have to admit that I really did not care for the tone of much of this episode. I understand what you were trying to say, but you all really came off as anti-suburbia snobs that didn't think we can serve Christ effectively living in a 3 bedroom split level with 2.3 kids and a dog.

why?

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:31:58 -0700

Maybe this is none of our business, and if that is true, you can just say so. But you talked a lot in this episode about how you moved on to a new church. You are also obviously still friends with your former pastor. I'm just curious about what happened there. What made you change?

a starting point

Joe — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:20:26 -0700

Hey Sylvan, thanks for the comment.

I think a good starting point in this process would be to really reflect on your final line. If you're battling with God's will versus your will, then you're really not following God over your friends, rather, you're following yourself over your friends.

I know that sounds harsh, but I'd encourage you to think about it some and maybe come to realize that you and your friends both have equivalent sin issues, they just manifest themselves in different ways.

I wonder how that could change your perspective in a situation like the one you mention?